←2009-07-28 2009-07-29 2009-07-30→ ↑2009 ↑all
00:00:43 <ehird> It worked this time!
00:00:43 <ehird> ^_^
00:00:51 <AnMaster> ehird, kay. Floppies do get bad over time
00:01:54 <ehird> next step is installing!
00:01:57 <ehird> or at least hopefully.
00:02:14 <ehird> byee~
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00:05:36 -!- ehird has joined.
00:05:43 <ehird> fucking bullshit man, it just ejected it. though the metal cover over the tape went kind of freaky when it came out after writing, and it came out slightly unhinged this time, so I'm gonna try again with a new disk
00:05:46 <ehird> *diskette, I guess I shoulds ay
00:05:48 <ehird> *should say
00:07:56 <oerjan> d'isquette
00:08:41 <AnMaster> it seems ubuntu uses "apparmor" which is similar to selinux...
00:08:43 <AnMaster> hm
00:08:44 <AnMaster> ehird, ^
00:09:10 <ehird> apparently
00:09:23 <oerjan> en apparma, apparman, apparmor, apparmorna
00:09:37 <ehird> tbh it's easy to do a capability based security system if you have a system-wide "file open" function, for instance
00:09:39 <ehird> that asks the user what file to open
00:09:44 <ehird> just give the app access to that file
00:10:00 <ehird> the only reason it isn't done is because we have this weird notion of apps having the freedom to use whatever file entry method they want
00:10:20 <ehird> kind of like letting a house in a street use whatever water, electricity and sewer lines it wants, at the expense of all the other houses
00:10:42 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm not sure the analogy works...
00:11:11 <ehird> because you don't want it to be true :p
00:12:01 <AnMaster> ehird, you mean it should ask every time it wants to open it's preference file? Or every time you are searching a directory tree recursively?
00:12:20 <AnMaster> I can see some reasons why "ask user for every access which file he/she wants" does have some issues
00:12:23 <ehird> no, it should be able to get at a preference directory free from the OS
00:12:34 <ehird> searching a directory tree, obviously opening a directory gives it recursive rights
00:12:46 <AnMaster> ehird, what about a web server then
00:12:56 <AnMaster> do you want people sitting at it all the time?
00:13:00 <ehird> give it rights to the directories it serves
00:13:10 <ehird> you're thinking about my "idea" way too stupidly just to put it down
00:13:18 <ehird> obviously there's a method for running software with access to N directories
00:13:22 <ehird> i'm referring to a user-facing app
00:13:28 <AnMaster> ehird, yes that makes kind of sense.
00:13:30 <ehird> where you can handle 90% of the cases this way
00:13:30 <AnMaster> in some ways
00:13:42 <AnMaster> not sure how command line apps would fit into it
00:13:44 <ehird> ofc the solution is s/files/objects/ and make it even more fine grained with arbitrary permission schemes, but
00:14:40 <ehird> in addition having a "gimme a directory to put my stuff in" also lets you configure it
00:14:45 <ehird> e.g. "put all stuff in ~/config"
00:14:49 <ehird> or "put this on this drive and that on that drive"
00:14:53 <ehird> that's what abstraction gets you
00:15:07 <ehird> (as opposed to current hacks that involve LD_PRELOAD and overriding the opening of dotfiles)
00:19:05 <AnMaster> ehird, um... how would it find the setting next time it starts?
00:19:14 <AnMaster> also... I never heard of such hacks
00:19:19 <ehird> uhh, by calling the give_this_app_a_config() function?
00:19:31 <ehird> anyway, let's try booting again
00:19:31 <AnMaster> ah
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00:19:36 <AnMaster> so OS would maintain it
00:19:56 <AnMaster> oerjan, <oerjan> en apparma, apparman, apparmor, apparmorna <-- huh?
00:20:26 <pikhq> Oerjan'sconjugating.
00:21:04 <AnMaster> ah
00:21:12 <AnMaster> and that is some strange grammar there pikhq :P
00:21:22 <pikhq> Yup.
00:21:25 <oerjan> declining, i thought
00:21:37 <pikhq> oerjan: Bah.
00:21:49 <oerjan> AnMaster: you mean that's not how to decline "apparma" in swedish?
00:22:07 <AnMaster> oerjan, I never even heard of that word in Swedish
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00:22:17 <AnMaster> ehird, hi
00:22:21 <AnMaster> how did it go?
00:22:27 <oerjan> also, *whoosh*
00:22:31 <ehird> ejected it then gave me the bad floppy symbol
00:23:07 <AnMaster> ehird, ouch. Btw how does one list what files an installed package contain in ubuntu from command line? I suspect apt-cache but can't figure out what parameters
00:23:20 <ehird> apt something something something
00:23:36 <oerjan> AnMaster: i suggest you look closer at the third item
00:23:39 <AnMaster> ehird, great help.... NOT.
00:24:01 <AnMaster> oerjan, oh right, hah
00:24:04 <ehird> "… NOT"
00:24:05 <AnMaster> oerjan, but not sure
00:24:05 <ehird> welcome to the 90s
00:24:05 <pikhq> AnMaster: man page
00:24:08 <ehird> humour is over there
00:25:38 <ehird> AnMaster: the "boot floppy" volume is uhh
00:25:39 <ehird> how shall i put this
00:25:43 <ehird> interestingly devoid of files.
00:25:50 <AnMaster> ehird, uh uh
00:26:03 <ehird> strange
00:26:04 <AnMaster> ehird, I seriously have no clue. Try to make a cd bootable like the install cd
00:26:05 <AnMaster> as in
00:26:07 <AnMaster> same way
00:26:15 <ehird> naw
00:26:23 <AnMaster> ehird, I think it will be faster
00:26:34 <ehird> but nobody's done that before.
00:26:41 <oerjan> in the 00s, we disapprove of "... NOT." BUT.
00:26:45 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway check the floppy under linux with badblocks
00:26:46 <AnMaster> oh wait
00:26:49 <AnMaster> forgot you can't :P
00:27:16 <ehird> shake the indigo belt of temerity!
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00:35:59 <ehird> okay, starting from scratch
00:36:04 <ehird> let's think of the best way to go about this…
00:36:23 <ehird> Hi Dan. The problem is that the "Old World" Macs cannot boot a Linux CD. You'll have to get the BootX program from here:
00:36:23 <ehird> http://penguinppc.org/historical/benh/BootX_1.2.2.sit
00:36:24 <ehird> ooh?!
00:36:27 <ehird> bootx can boot CDs?
00:36:31 <ehird> LET'S HAVE THAT SHIT!
00:37:49 <pikhq> I'm reminded of when I tried getting Linux on an old-world Mac.
00:37:54 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
00:37:57 <pikhq> Unfortunately, its OS install was nuked.
00:38:18 <ehird> pikhq: lawl
00:38:19 <ehird> bye guyses
00:38:21 <pikhq> So, no BootX. And a notable lack of floppies.
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00:42:59 <ehird> no luck
00:47:41 <AnMaster> ehird, old mac runs very unprotected right? Like, no memory protection
00:47:46 <AnMaster> why not load linux inside mac
00:47:48 <AnMaster> as in
00:47:52 <AnMaster> somewhat like kexec
00:48:00 <ehird> You could do that, but it'd require programming.
00:48:01 <ehird> Wait.
00:48:03 <ehird> Programming is fun
00:48:07 <AnMaster> possibly load it as the first extension during boot
00:48:07 <ehird> AnMaster: Possibly, man!
00:48:13 <pikhq> AnMaster: Oldworld Macs are on a PowerPC.
00:48:14 <ehird> brb
00:48:19 <pikhq> They have memory protection.
00:48:21 <AnMaster> to avoid hardware too much messed up
00:48:31 <AnMaster> pikhq, MacOS doesn't run protected memory though iirc
00:48:32 <pikhq> And can boot directly to Linux.
00:48:33 <AnMaster> before OS X
00:48:42 <pikhq> AnMaster: Yes, but that's not because of hardware.
00:48:50 <AnMaster> pikhq, did I say it was?
00:48:57 <AnMaster> pikhq, I meant old mac os
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00:49:06 <pikhq> Okay.
00:55:19 <ehird> AnMaster: actually, I think that's basically what bootx does
00:55:33 <ehird> let me make an alias to my cd rom drive where it looks and try it
00:56:23 <AnMaster> um
00:56:29 <AnMaster> ehird, alias for the cdrom you mean
00:56:38 <ehird> nope
00:56:39 <AnMaster> iirc inserting a different cdrom won't work for the alias
00:56:42 <ehird> an alias pointing to my cd rom drive
00:56:47 <ehird> in the system folder where bootx looks for its kernel
00:56:58 <AnMaster> ehird, well right. But insert the right cd first
00:57:00 <ehird> prolly won't work :P
00:57:00 <ehird> no duh
00:57:02 <AnMaster> oh... an idea
00:57:12 <ehird> bollocks, doesn't seem to have mounted it
00:57:13 <ehird> AnMaster: oh?
00:57:22 <AnMaster> copy kernel to system dir?
00:57:31 <ehird> meh
00:57:45 <ehird> AnMaster: that's what bootx is for
00:57:56 <ehird> lemme read the debian install docs
00:57:58 <ehird> might enlighten me
00:58:59 <AnMaster> good luck
00:59:38 <ehird> i love hacking like this
00:59:48 <ehird> there's something wonderful about using modern methods to hack things on to something so old
00:59:51 <ehird> (relatively)
01:00:10 <ehird> "OldWorld PowerMacs will not boot a Debian CD, because OldWorld computers relied on a Mac OS ROM CD boot driver to be present on the CD, and a free-software version of this driver is not available. All OldWorld systems have floppy drives, so use the floppy drive to launch the installer, and then point the installer to the CD for the needed files."
01:00:11 <ehird> bitch
01:00:12 <ehird> that was my idea
01:00:21 <ehird> [[If your system doesn't boot directly from CD-ROM, you can still use the CD-ROM to install the system. On NewWorlds, you can also use an OpenFirmware command to boot from the CD-ROM manually. Follow the instructions in Section, “Booting NewWorld Macs from OpenFirmware” for booting from the hard disk, except use the path to yaboot on the CD at the OF prompt, such as]]
01:00:23 <ehird> stop taunting me fuckers
01:00:34 <ehird> Booting OldWorld PowerMacs from MacOS
01:00:35 <ehird> If you set up BootX in Section 4.4.1, “Hard Disk Installer Booting for OldWorld Macs”, you can use it to boot into the installation system. Double click the BootX application icon. Click on the Options button and select Use Specified RAM Disk. This will give you the chance to select the ramdisk.image.gz file. You may need to select the No Video Driver checkbox, depending on your hardware. Then click the Linux button to shut down MacOS and launch the inst
01:00:37 <ehird> bah!
01:00:39 <ehird> i might do it that way
01:00:42 <ehird> but i really want to enter via openfirmware
01:00:47 <ehird> You will have already placed the vmlinux, initrd.gz, yaboot, and yaboot.conf files at the root level of your HFS partition in Section 4.4.2, “Hard Disk Installer Booting for NewWorld Macs”. You will now have to boot into OpenFirmware (see Section 3.6.1, “Invoking OpenFirmware”). At the prompt, type
01:00:47 <ehird> 0 > boot hd:x,yaboot
01:00:48 <ehird> Oh.
01:00:50 <ehird> Well no shit, sherlock!
01:00:53 <ehird> I'll have me some of that!
01:01:09 <ehird> AnMaster: do you think that the debian installer will be able to wipe and install on to the disk it's on?
01:01:23 <ehird> prolly not
01:01:38 <ehird> oh, wait
01:01:39 <ehird> Booting NewWorld Macs from OpenFirmware
01:01:42 <ehird> it's only for new world
01:01:45 <ehird> fuck ass bitch shitting.
01:01:48 <pikhq> Yeah.
01:01:56 <ehird> well that sucks
01:02:03 <ehird> new world gets all the chicks
01:02:13 <pikhq> And the Forth.
01:02:18 <ehird> yeah
01:02:18 <AnMaster> ehird, you might want to try yellowdog
01:02:24 <ehird> fuckers never zapped their pram
01:02:27 <ehird> AnMaster: new world.
01:02:27 <pikhq> Not to mention the firmware with a bzimage loader builtin.
01:02:35 <AnMaster> ehird, I zapped pram on newworld
01:02:40 <ehird> no you didn't kiddo
01:02:42 <ehird> get off my lawn
01:02:48 <AnMaster> pikhq, really? WHERE CAN I ACCESS IT
01:02:49 <AnMaster> brb
01:03:08 <pikhq> AnMaster: OpenFirmware
01:03:11 <ehird> one more idea before i try bootx
01:03:35 <ehird> "ext3 & quik - avoid headaches by keeping a ext2 partition for quik "
01:03:39 <ehird> sweet, I'm going to be using ext2
01:03:42 <ehird> retro!
01:04:06 <ehird> ok, i'm gonna boot the installer via bootx
01:04:07 <ehird> and then fly
01:04:30 <ehird> The boot-floppy-hfs floppy uses miBoot to launch Linux installation, but miBoot cannot easily be used for hard disk booting. BootX, launched from MacOS, supports booting from files placed on the hard disk. BootX can also be used to dual-boot MacOS and Linux after your Debian installation is complete. For the Performa 6360, it appears that quik cannot make the hard disk bootable. So BootX is required on that model.
01:04:32 <ehird> oh
01:04:36 <ehird> quik can do it maybe possibly
01:04:41 <ehird> no wait dammit i can't use a ram disk
01:04:44 <ehird> my ram isn't big enough
01:04:52 <ehird> i think
01:06:21 <ehird> AnMaster: pikhq: seems like the best method so far is "boot up minimal thingy somehow, then launch that into the CD/tell it to use the CD"
01:06:30 <pikhq> Yup.
01:06:46 <ehird> well i can't use floppies as the thingy
01:06:46 <pikhq> BTW, your RAM is big enough for the initial RAM disk.
01:06:53 <pikhq> It fits on one of those two floppies. ;)
01:06:53 <ehird> pikhq: oh? how much does it require?
01:07:02 <ehird> also, i don't want to have bootx as the final thingy
01:07:05 <pikhq> 2M.
01:07:09 <ehird> i want it to boot directly from quik
01:07:21 <ehird> btw
01:07:26 <ehird> old world macs have openfirmware too
01:07:36 <ehird> anyway
01:07:43 <ehird> either i'll bootx and then use quik after it's installed
01:07:47 <ehird> or quik from the start
01:07:47 <pikhq> Then why do they suck so much?
01:07:49 <ehird> commence voting
01:07:52 <ehird> pikhq: buggy
01:07:58 <pikhq> Lame.
01:08:20 <ehird> meh
01:08:43 <pikhq> ehird: Check to see if your Mac has NuBus.
01:08:48 <ehird> pikhq: it doesn't, pci here
01:08:52 <pikhq> If it has NuBus, it doesn't have OpenFirmware.
01:08:55 <pikhq> Okay, then Quik works.
01:08:56 <AnMaster> pikhq, how do you access openfirmware
01:09:02 <ehird> yeah
01:09:09 <ehird> i'm just wondering whether it's worth the fuss
01:09:10 <ehird> well
01:09:18 <ehird> pikhq: do you think the debian installer can wipe the drive it's stored on
01:09:19 <ehird> then install to that?
01:09:22 <ehird> AnMaster: command-option-o-f
01:09:28 <AnMaster> ehird, that mac has it?
01:09:33 <AnMaster> since it has pci I mean
01:09:38 <ehird> sure
01:09:47 <ehird> [01:09] ehird: pikhq: do you think the debian installer can wipe the drive it's stored on
01:09:47 <ehird> [01:09] ehird: then install to that?
01:09:49 <AnMaster> ehird, so... it is newworld
01:09:51 <ehird> AnMaster: no
01:09:52 <ehird> it's not
01:09:56 <AnMaster> no?
01:09:57 <ehird> "Quik is an Open Firmware-based bootloader for Old World Macintosh"
01:10:02 <ehird> "Because it's very dependent on Open Firmware, and because the Open Firmware on Old World Macintosh is very buggy and difficult to work with"
01:10:03 <ehird> QED
01:10:03 <AnMaster> uh
01:10:07 <AnMaster> ah
01:10:09 <AnMaster> right
01:10:17 <ehird> Where has this conception that OF = new world come from?
01:10:27 <AnMaster> ehird, no idea
01:10:42 <AnMaster> from using nubus macs and then jumping to newworld ones
01:11:00 <ehird> Anyway, pikhq, answerate my question. :P (Or I'll ask #debian!)
01:11:19 <ehird> AnMaster: were nubus/newworld beige boxes quite loud?
01:11:22 <ehird> the old world ppcs are
01:11:36 <AnMaster> ehird, uh?
01:11:40 <ehird> well i guess i can't judge with the expansion board and all
01:11:42 <ehird> AnMaster: fan noise
01:11:42 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: were nubus/newworld beige boxes quite loud? <-- what?
01:11:49 <AnMaster> nubus/newworld?
01:11:55 <ehird> as in, either/both
01:11:55 <AnMaster> I didn't think that existed
01:12:01 <AnMaster> hn
01:12:02 <AnMaster> hm*
01:12:10 <ehird> not a machine with both
01:12:11 <ehird> silly
01:12:17 <pikhq> ehird: Sure it can. The bootloader loads the Debian installer to RAM.
01:12:19 <AnMaster> ehird, my newworld ibook first generation wasn't very loud, to begin with
01:12:28 <AnMaster> the harddrive is *really* loud nowdays though
01:12:32 <ehird> pikhq: does it download the packages to RAM?
01:12:37 <ehird> AnMaster: well laptops are a special case
01:12:38 <ehird> also it's not beige
01:12:42 <ehird> after the imac everything became nice
01:12:42 <AnMaster> ehird, true
01:13:07 <pikhq> ehird: No, it downloads the packages to HD after the partitioning and formatting steps.
01:13:13 <AnMaster> ehird, the old performa 6500 (or around there) I had was not very loud apart from the built in crt whine
01:13:14 <ehird> pikhq: Ah.
01:13:23 <ehird> pikhq: Cool. Now, I wonder if lenny has one of these ramdisk images.
01:13:25 <ehird> To the IE 5.1!
01:13:31 <pikhq> Most definitely.
01:13:44 <ehird> wait
01:13:46 <ehird> pikhq: not a ramdisk
01:13:51 <ehird> i should just put the thingy
01:13:52 <ehird> on the other HD
01:13:58 <ehird> then boot in from open firmware or quik or something
01:14:03 <pikhq> What thingy?
01:14:03 <ehird> AnMaster: I can't really hear the crt whine over the fans
01:14:09 <ehird> pikhq: installation thing
01:14:16 <ehird> i'm not doing bootx
01:14:18 <ehird> so not a ram disk
01:14:34 <AnMaster> ehird, wasn't any fan noise on that one
01:14:43 <pikhq> Uh, Debian's installer works by loading a RAM disk with the installer in it.
01:14:45 <AnMaster> ehird, I loved the cd noise on it though
01:14:50 <pikhq> For *all* the installation methods.
01:14:54 <AnMaster> ehird, as in... you heard the seeking but not the spinning
01:15:06 <AnMaster> ehird, which was *awesome* when it was loading myst
01:15:07 <ehird> pikhq: yes, but the bootx method has a separate ramdisk file that you download
01:15:07 <ehird> I mean
01:15:12 <ehird> AnMaster: heh I have a myst disc here
01:15:17 <pikhq> Oh.
01:15:21 <ehird> what does cd seeking even sound like
01:15:22 <ehird> if not spinning
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01:15:36 <ehird> pikhq: small or tiny cd?
01:15:38 <ehird> pick my poison!
01:15:42 <ehird> i'm inclined to go with tiny
01:15:42 <AnMaster> ehird, it was like 2x or 4x, so you just heard the head thingy going back/forth
01:15:45 <ehird> AnMaster: heh
01:15:59 <AnMaster> head thingy = thing for laser
01:16:00 <pikhq> ehird: Small has a GUI installer, tiny has a text-mode installer.
01:16:06 <pikhq> Pick your poison.
01:16:06 <ehird> "hd-media"
01:16:08 <ehird> promising, but
01:16:11 <ehird> has a yaboot.conf
01:16:14 <ehird> so probably Not For Me
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01:16:48 <ehird> pikhq: i can't just boot in from openfirmware because it's elf
01:16:49 <ehird> correct?
01:16:54 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX.
01:17:56 <ehird> i mean i assume openfirmware wants some wacky mac kernel format
01:18:13 <pikhq> ehird: Probably.
01:18:22 <ehird> so
01:18:30 <ehird> i need quik
01:18:39 <ehird> so what i need on my other HFS disk is:
01:18:41 <ehird> quik
01:18:43 <ehird> kernel
01:18:44 <ehird> other stuff it needs
01:18:47 <ehird> (installation stuff)
01:18:50 <ehird> then boot in via HFS
01:18:51 <ehird> err
01:18:52 <ehird> via OF
01:19:07 <ehird> http://penguinppc.org/bootloaders/quik/ ;; kind of… lacks any info on how to insatll it
01:19:47 * ehird claps, it's distributed as a fucking rpm
01:19:49 * ehird clicks quik for mac os
01:19:54 <ehird> which is a sit
01:19:55 <ehird> /sigh
01:20:41 <ehird> okay, a terminal-based installer
01:20:44 <ehird> let's hope this doesn't brick my mac
01:20:52 <ehird> "No unix partitions found!"
01:20:53 <ehird> no
01:20:55 <ehird> fucking
01:20:55 <ehird> shit
01:20:56 <ehird> sherlock
01:21:01 <ehird> ok, bootx now
01:21:04 <ehird> quik after
01:23:45 <ehird> okay, so I need to make a folder called Linux Kernels inside my system folder
01:23:54 <ehird> but i'll do the ramdisk
01:24:24 <ehird> ok, ramdisk.img.gz has to go in the system folder
01:24:49 <ehird> question is
01:24:52 <ehird> where the hell do i get it
01:25:28 <pikhq> Debian mirror
01:25:47 <ehird> pikhq: gee, thanks captain obvious :P
01:28:01 <ehird> pikhq: the relevant install manual chapter references woody.
01:28:09 <ehird> methinks this is kind of … unsupported.
01:28:55 <ehird> well
01:28:59 <ehird> boot.img.gz looks positive
01:29:34 <ehird> it's 5.7MB
01:29:36 <ehird> worth a shot
01:29:45 <ehird> pikhq: d'you think it'll work?
01:29:50 <pikhq> Sure.
01:30:12 <ehird> i wonder if i need this 0.5k boot.msg file
01:30:13 <ehird> meh, can't hurt
01:30:29 <pikhq> That's for isolinux and friends.
01:31:08 <ehird> nah, it was used in the yaboot.conf
01:31:38 <pikhq> "And friends".
01:31:46 <ehird> :P
01:31:55 <ehird> bootx would count as a friend then
01:31:58 <ehird> the networking on this thing is so slow
01:32:02 <ehird> it gets like 30KB/sec
01:32:02 <ehird> why?
01:32:05 <ehird> i get 700KB/sec here
01:34:18 <AnMaster> ehird, I had to uninstall Helvetica Neue... it causes ubuntu's website to look shit when installed
01:34:26 <AnMaster> due to not rendering well with fontconfig there
01:34:30 <AnMaster> err
01:34:33 <AnMaster> freetype I mean
01:34:42 <ehird> yeah
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01:37:57 <ehird> Downloaded!
01:38:05 <ehird> Now to rename boot.img.gz to ramdisk.img.gz, start BootX, and watch it break.
01:39:09 <ehird> *ramdisk.image.gz
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01:49:53 <ehird> half-progress
01:49:58 <ehird> bootx boots into "Welcome to Linux"
01:49:59 <ehird> then
01:50:01 <ehird> preparing boot params
01:50:04 <ehird> preparing bat
01:50:04 <ehird> mmu
01:50:05 <ehird> blah
01:50:06 <ehird> hash
01:50:06 <ehird> blah
01:50:08 <ehird> MMU:setio
01:50:09 <ehird> MMU:exit
01:50:12 <ehird> then it just sits there
01:50:16 <ehird> until i reboot
01:50:23 <ehird> i think it's found the kernel but not where to go next, y'know?
01:55:13 <AnMaster> night
01:57:35 <ehird> ah, i know!
01:57:44 <ehird> i can't use the hd thing
01:57:48 <ehird> cause it has no hd
01:57:52 <ehird> i need a self-contained kernel thing
01:57:56 <ehird> pikhq: so a floppy image right?
01:58:00 <ehird> or rathre
01:58:01 <ehird> rather
01:58:05 <ehird> the stuff from a floppy image
01:58:06 <ehird> → tiny cd
01:58:24 <ehird> yeppers
01:58:48 <ehird> hmm
01:58:52 <ehird> what do i do without initrd, I wonder
01:59:00 <ehird> wait
01:59:02 <ehird> initrd is the ram disk
01:59:04 * ehird slap
02:05:32 <ehird> time to try bootx!
02:06:09 -!- ehird has quit.
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02:08:10 <ehird> i gotsit almost methinks
02:08:17 <ehird> the kernel boots but doesn't go into init
02:08:18 <pikhq> ehird: Why are you disconnecting every time you try to boot your old Mac?
02:08:22 <ehird> so that means it can't find it, right
02:08:26 <ehird> pikhq: it's the feeling of it
02:08:29 <ehird> :P
02:08:35 <ehird> i put the imac to sleep
02:08:37 <ehird> anyhow
02:08:40 <ehird> i think the kernel boots up just fine
02:08:44 <ehird> it just doesn't see the ramdisk, right?
02:08:55 <ehird> is there a kernel parameter meaning "oi, look here you ejit"?
02:09:12 <pikhq> Or it might not see init in the ramdisk.
02:09:21 <pikhq> Maybe do init=/initrd
02:09:27 <ehird> OK
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02:11:14 -!- ehird has joined.
02:11:21 <ehird> pikhq: "Kernel command line: ramdisk_size=8192 init=/initrd" but it still stops after "PID hash table entries: 512 (order: 9, 2048 bytes)
02:11:24 <ehird> s/$/"/
02:11:45 <pikhq> root=/dev/ram0 ?
02:12:09 <ehird> pikhq: Not just /dev/ram?
02:12:12 <ehird> But OK.
02:12:22 <pikhq> More than one ramdisk.
02:13:24 <ehird> time to try
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02:16:19 <ehird> pikhq: Same.
02:16:29 <ehird> I seriously think it can't locate the ramdisk.
02:16:48 <ehird> I'll take a photo of the screen?
02:17:52 <pikhq> Weirdness.
02:18:22 <ehird> It just rebooted out of sheer boredom.
02:18:36 <ehird> Snapped the screen, though.
02:19:10 <ehird> pikhq: http://imgur.com/YEvwo.jpg; very WarGames looking.
02:20:30 <pikhq> #debian, and I got not a clue.
02:20:49 <pikhq> I didn't know it was possible for the kernel to lock up there.
02:21:13 <ehird> pikhq: Mm. Interestingly, there's a RAM Disk in Mac OS; it's empty and has 60.8 MB free.
02:21:22 <pikhq> Mmm.
02:24:15 <ehird> pikhq: However, my RAM disk is... not that big.
02:24:16 <ehird> Hey, wait.
02:24:23 <ehird> I think the RAM disk is set to 8KB— wait, no, it'll be 8MB.
02:24:48 <ehird> The size is 8192.
02:24:50 <ehird> 8192… somethings.
02:25:10 <ehird> It's measured in KB
02:25:12 <ehird> Darn.
02:25:40 <GregorR> Whoo, 1600 mungers since qwantz.com linked to me.
02:25:43 <GregorR> That's ... a lotish?
02:25:51 <ehird> That's not much for freakin' Dinosaur Comics.
02:25:57 <GregorR> Yarly :P
02:26:05 <GregorR> But it's a lot for codu :P
02:27:13 -!- Asztal has joined.
02:27:46 <ehird> pikhq: /dev/ram is symlinked to /dev/ram1 on Red Hat, apparently.
02:27:49 <ehird> Maybe I should try ram1.
02:28:43 <ehird> pikhq: adb suggested ramdisk_size=16384; did zilch
02:29:50 <ehird> /dev/ram1 helps not
02:37:14 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:41:21 -!- Azstal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:41:57 <ehird> pikhq: i may have figuredified it out
02:42:02 <ehird> with →→→magic
02:42:14 <pikhq> Woots.
02:42:31 <ehird> put the ramdisk thingy in the linux kernels folder
02:42:35 <ehird> so they're <33 bffs
02:42:43 <pikhq> Ah.
02:43:07 <ehird> instead of the ramdisk in the system folder
02:43:12 <ehird> and the kernel in its subdirectory, the linux kernels folder
02:44:08 <ehird> gogogo
02:44:13 -!- ehird has quit.
02:46:35 -!- ehird has joined.
02:46:42 <ehird> Alas, poor Linux. You stubborn bastard. Do something different, at least!
02:47:28 <ehird> pikhq: perhaps it is trying to load /initrd?
02:47:35 <ehird> where / has no well-defined meaning here
02:47:55 <pikhq> It shouldn't be.
02:48:19 <pikhq> Well, it should be, after mounting /.
02:49:12 <ehird> Is there a way to make the kernel spew out its messages slower so I get a chance to read them?
02:49:39 <pikhq> No.
02:49:57 <pikhq> Well, there is, but it's absurd.
02:50:00 <ehird> Oh?
02:50:12 <pikhq> Hook up another computer to the serial port and start up gdb.
02:50:41 <ehird> Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
02:51:01 * ehird reboots. again.
02:51:08 <ehird> looks like i'm not sleeping tonight
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03:01:59 <ehird> pikhq: With all this fuss, I conclude the only sane computer must be purely functional.
03:02:07 <ehird> I don't know why this helps, but it'd soothe my soul.
03:06:00 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:07:39 <ehird> pikhq: OK, I conclude that the problem comes down to: The kernel works absolutely fine. It just doesn't mount the ramdisk.
03:07:57 <pikhq> :/
03:08:24 <ehird> pikhq: Theory: This is because it's an OS X ramdisk, and Linux don't done know none of 'dat stuff.
03:08:57 <pikhq> Inquiry: why did you think that would work?
03:09:28 <pikhq> I strongly suspect the *floppy disk* image would work.
03:09:38 <ehird> pikhq: (a) because that's what BootX does.
03:09:51 <ehird> (b) they're an .img, not a kernel or ramdisk
03:09:58 <ehird> physical diskettes don't boot
03:10:14 <pikhq> The second floppy disk image is the ramdisk.
03:10:39 <ehird> pikhq: I'm using the tiny cd one.
03:10:45 <ehird> Still doesn't change how BootX mounts it.
03:10:58 <pikhq> #debian. *shrug*
03:11:07 <ehird> Asked; was mostly ignored.
03:11:22 <pikhq> Oh, right. Debian.
03:12:30 <ehird> :P
03:18:44 -!- Azstal has quit (Connection timed out).
03:19:41 <oerjan> `translatefrom hu azstal
03:19:41 <HackEgo> No output.
03:20:01 <oerjan> `translatefrom hu asztal
03:20:02 <HackEgo> No output.
03:21:39 <oerjan> `translatefrom no Skjønner denne greia noe som helst, egentlig?
03:21:39 <HackEgo> No output.
03:21:57 <oerjan> `ls bin/trans*
03:21:57 <ehird> `translatefromto no en Skjonner
03:21:57 <HackEgo> No output.
03:21:59 <HackEgo> Understand
03:22:08 <ehird> `translatefromto hu en asztal
03:22:09 <HackEgo> table
03:22:11 <oerjan> `sh ls bin/trans*
03:22:12 <HackEgo> No output.
03:22:18 <ehird> `sh ls bin
03:22:19 <HackEgo> No output.
03:22:23 <ehird> er
03:22:25 <oerjan> `run ls bin/trans*
03:22:25 <HackEgo> bin/translate \ bin/translatefromto \ bin/translateto
03:22:27 <ehird> yeah :P
03:22:44 <oerjan> ah.
03:23:29 <oerjan> `translatefromto no en Skjønner denne greia noe som helst, egentlig?
03:23:31 <HackEgo> SkjĂ ¸ nner this thing anything, really?
03:23:55 <oerjan> well, not unicode, that's for sure
03:26:23 <pikhq> `translatefromto no en Skjonner denne greia noe som helst, egentlig?
03:26:24 <HackEgo> Do this thing anything, really?
03:26:36 * oerjan would have wanted a "what so ever" inside there...
03:27:34 <oerjan> `translatefromto en no Does this thing understand anything what so ever, really?
03:27:36 <HackEgo> Betyr dette forstĺr alt hva sĺ noensinne, egentlig?
03:27:49 <oerjan> O_O
03:28:18 <oerjan> that was horrible :D
03:28:46 <pikhq> THE LS ARE DOTTED.
03:29:04 <oerjan> hm
03:29:12 <oerjan> `translatefromto en no Does this thing understand anything whatsoever, really?
03:29:14 <HackEgo> Betyr dette forstĺr noe overhodet, egentlig?
03:29:22 <pikhq> Why can'ṫ we jusṫ doṫ our ṫs and cross our ɨs?
03:29:24 <ehird> pikhq: ´tted actually.
03:29:29 <oerjan> ok slightly better
03:30:23 * oerjan checks the logs for dotted l's
03:30:32 <oerjan> O_O those are supposed to be å's
03:31:08 <pikhq>
03:31:49 <pikhq> ṪHERE. L̇, BƗṪCHES. ;)
03:32:02 <GregorR> pikhq: lawl
03:32:22 <pikhq> BTW, ZOMG. I can... Double-cross my ŧs.
03:32:43 <oerjan> treacherous spelling
03:32:59 <pikhq> And double-doŧ my ïs.
03:39:36 * ehird decides to try out Debian sarge.
03:39:43 <ehird> I doubt more recent things will work smoothly for the install process.
03:42:02 <oerjan> i think debian sarge would be a major error, and could in general cause corporal harm
03:42:17 <ehird> it's a toy-story based naming system actually.
03:42:44 <oerjan> aha
03:42:56 <ehird> The unstable release is "sid". :-)
03:44:02 <pikhq> Didn't Ian work at Pixar?
03:45:08 <ehird> Dunno.
03:45:17 <ehird> Hmph; the only minimal CD for sarge is 2.4-kernel.
03:45:26 <ehird> But the "non-minimal" CD is just a few meg. :P
03:48:33 <ehird> Aha — I think I should be using boot.img.gz, not initrd.gz.
03:48:34 <ehird> Maybe.
03:55:46 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
03:58:49 <ehird> AnMaster: that MPW disk would be appreciated.
04:16:46 -!- HackEgo has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:16:46 -!- ski__ has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:18:13 -!- ski__ has joined.
04:50:32 * ehird sets the unused 1.19GB drive as virtual RAM
04:50:36 <ehird> wow, it's screamingly fast!
04:51:05 <ehird> as in… actually usable now
06:09:12 <GregorR> !bf_txtgen Hello, world!
06:09:24 <EgoBot> 126 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>. [214]
06:17:48 <ehird> CRTs that don't come with a "reset settings" option suck.
06:17:51 <ehird> Trufax.
06:51:26 <ehird> Haha wow.
06:51:30 <ehird> There's a port of Firefox to Mac OS 9.
06:51:35 <ehird> Recent. Like, this year.
06:51:37 <ehird> I'm downloading it now.
07:03:50 <ehird> Correction: It seems to be the suite.
07:03:51 <ehird> Whatever.
07:04:57 <ehird> Rendering is… insanely fast.
07:05:31 <ehird> Like "once Wikipedia's loaded, it renders instantly" fast.
07:22:21 <GregorR> http://codu.org/myavatar.gif wtf
07:22:32 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("Computer has gone to sleep").
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07:25:56 <Slereah> Gay
07:26:18 <ehirdzilla> hello from chatzilla/macos9/ppc!
07:26:31 <ehirdzilla> it's kinda slow
07:26:45 <ehirdzilla> what with the whole memory-hogging infrastructure and slow javascript running on top of a 300mhz processor
07:27:07 <ehird> GregorR: You're Gregor, apparently.
07:27:16 <ehirdzilla> ehird: stfu im me not you
07:27:25 <GregorR> ehirdzilla: So I'm told.
07:27:43 <ehirdzilla> one button mice really kinda suck.
07:28:01 <ehirdzilla> this is slower than windows 7 is in my os x vm :D
07:30:29 <ehirdzilla> so hey guys it's 7:29 am i'm on an ancient mac starved for cpu, ram and disk running a gigantic sprawling mess of C++ code with a slow javascript implementation interfacing on to that running complex code which then changes an xml document tree which is then processed to meticulously redraw and/or use native widgets in a window.
07:30:38 <ehirdzilla> connected to IRC.
07:30:43 <ehirdzilla> is it the future yet?
07:39:12 <GregorR> The future came and passed.
07:39:14 <GregorR> It's yesterday now.
07:39:45 <ehirdzilla> whoa
07:39:51 <ehirdzilla> fucking tachyon computers
07:40:01 <ehirdzilla> by saturday i'll be buying this for $2,700
07:40:14 <ehirdzilla> and uninstalling the debian i installed on it in the future to put mac os on it instead
07:42:45 <ehirdzilla> poincare conjecture is like what timecube is to internet explorer
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
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08:02:35 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
08:04:34 <ehirdzilla> MigoMipo, you're a MigoMipo.
08:04:55 <ehirdzilla> ===CTCP version reply Chatzilla 0.8.23 [Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:9.0) Clecko/20090628 Classilla/CFM] from ehirdzilla
08:04:57 <ehirdzilla> :(
08:05:02 <ehirdzilla> I was hoping it'd mention OS 9
08:05:12 <ehirdzilla> That way, everyone would cry "Fake!" :)
08:19:09 -!- FireFly has joined.
08:19:38 <ehirdzilla> hi FireFly
08:20:00 <ehirdzilla> put your DS irc bot up and i'll trigger it with my PPC PowerMac :-P
08:20:18 <FireFly> Hello, ehird on .*zilla
08:20:20 <FireFly> Well, it is non-existant for now
08:20:27 <FireFly> It was just an idea I had
08:20:51 <ehirdzilla> i'm on classilla
08:21:00 <ehirdzilla> mozilla suite (seamonkey i guess) for mac os 9
08:21:20 <ehirdzilla> usable, but switching windows is slow
08:21:27 <FireFly> Ah
08:21:40 <ehirdzilla> sis entering a url, but
08:21:42 <ehirdzilla> *so is
08:22:00 <ehirdzilla> rendering is fast and way more accurate than ie 5.1
08:22:02 <ehirdzilla> sooo
08:22:04 <ehirdzilla> yay
08:22:35 <FireFly> Ah, right, there's no Safari for you in OS 9
08:22:48 <FireFly> I was a bit wtf'd at first when I saw you running IE on that photo
08:23:03 <ehirdzilla> oh and scrolling's jerky. but we are talking a 120mhz machine that was upgraded to a 300mhz g3 w/ 96mb of ram
08:23:07 <ehirdzilla> FireFly, heh, yeah
08:23:31 <FireFly> I played around with Damn Small Linux on a 48MB RAM laptop a couple of years ago
08:23:54 <FireFly> It was actually usable.. definitely more than the Win95 it originally ran, at least
08:24:00 <ehirdzilla> i've made the empty 1.19gb (same size as system disk) drive into "Auxiliary Memory"
08:24:14 <ehirdzilla> and set 990mb of it (the most it'd allow) as virtual memory
08:24:23 <FireFly> Heh
08:24:44 <ehirdzilla> then set the ram disk to 8064kb and moved the browser's cache to it
08:24:48 <ehirdzilla> 7mb big
08:25:05 <ehirdzilla> then left the disk cache as the inferred 2816kb
08:25:09 <ehirdzilla> and it's running like 2-4x faster
08:25:27 <ehirdzilla> difference between many seconds between it reacting to a window switch and doing it in less than a second
08:25:44 <ehirdzilla> rendering changed from unusably slow to just tedious
08:25:46 <ehirdzilla> quite good imo
08:26:04 <ehirdzilla> os 9.1 is prolly a bit too much for this machine to do lotsa stuff smoothly but *meh*
08:26:06 <FireFly> Yeah, being able to use an application is always a plus
08:26:14 <ehirdzilla> quite.
08:27:01 <ehirdzilla> oh, and classilla uses 80.1mb of ram constantly because classic mac os doesn't/didn't have dynamic memory allocation
08:27:10 <ehirdzilla> of course, this means that swapping etc. behaviour is pretty suck
08:27:23 <ehirdzilla> but hey, over 1gb of ram!
08:27:29 <ehirdzilla> the actual ram drops out as statistically insignificant
08:27:37 <ehirdzilla> i'm sure it's fast enough, it's a QUANTUM FIREBALL drive after all
08:28:32 <ehirdzilla> but this is really quite usable, apart from the ~1.5s delay from clicking the chatzilla window to it putting text in the grey area
08:28:49 <ehirdzilla> coperative multitasking, how nave!
08:29:04 <FireFly> "coöperative" just looks... odd
08:29:20 <FireFly> When you're used to reading 'ö' as a character, with its own pronounciation
08:29:35 <ehirdzilla> it's english's only accent, and I'm fucking proud to flaunt it!
08:29:40 <ehirdzilla> in fact i'm going to start a movement
08:29:48 <ehirdzilla> Hooray For the Fucking Diaresis
08:30:06 <FireFly> HFFD
08:30:07 <ehirdzilla> *Dieresis
08:30:11 <ehirdzilla> yes
08:30:28 <FireFly> Well, I did know about naïve
08:31:30 <FireFly> Doesn't the diaeresis signify non-diphthong sound, or something like that?
08:32:12 <ehirdzilla> actual like 2 seconds, not 1.5
08:32:13 <FireFly> "Dutch uses the same mark in a similar way, (for example coëfficiënt), but as with English there is now a preference for hyphenation - so zeeëend (seaduck) is now spelled zee-eend"
08:32:15 <FireFly> Hm
08:32:17 <ehirdzilla> *actually the delay is
08:32:32 <ehirdzilla> FireFly, it's used to denote that two consecutive vowels do not have the same pronunciation
08:32:43 <ehirdzilla> well
08:32:45 <ehirdzilla> and other vowels too
08:32:46 <ehirdzilla> e.g.
08:32:49 <ehirdzilla> premptive
08:32:53 <ehirdzilla> pree, ehmptive
08:32:58 <ehirdzilla> zo
08:33:04 <ehirdzilla> zoh, ee
08:33:09 <ehirdzilla> nave
08:33:10 <FireFly> Mhm
08:33:18 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: that MPW disk would be appreciated. <-- right. I'm just going out, but as soon as I get back I will look at it
08:33:21 <ehirdzilla> wait nave doesn't really count but
08:33:24 <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, kaykay
08:33:33 -!- FireFly has left (?).
08:33:38 -!- FireFly has joined.
08:33:40 <FireFly> ._.
08:33:47 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, this will be in maybe 1-2 hours
08:33:58 <FireFly> Accidentally hitted the closing x with the mouse
08:34:20 <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, i may be asleep by then
08:34:25 <ehirdzilla> what having not slepped and all
08:34:27 <ehirdzilla> yes slepped
08:34:29 <ehirdzilla> slept is for lameos
08:34:30 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, well I can try now
08:34:37 <ehirdzilla> i was joking
08:34:37 <AnMaster> I do have some time before I leave
08:34:40 <ehirdzilla> but sure thing bro?
08:34:57 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, depends on how long it takes
08:35:23 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, sure it isn't available for download from apple?
08:35:29 <ehirdzilla> doesn't making an .img consist of dragging the floppy to disk copy and picking a file name? :P
08:35:31 <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, it is
08:35:36 <ehirdzilla> in about 50 separate files
08:35:41 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, [0014]?
08:35:44 <ehirdzilla> all with different components and shit
08:35:52 <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, ehwhat
08:35:54 <AnMaster> <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, it is[0014]
08:35:55 <AnMaster> that
08:35:58 <AnMaster> is what I mean
08:36:04 <ehirdzilla> em dash.
08:36:07 <ehirdzilla> probably MacRoman or something.
08:36:10 <ehirdzilla> blame mac os 9.
08:36:18 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, kay. I *can't* interpret that
08:36:25 <ehirdzilla> (chatzilla on mozilla on mac os 9, wayoohh)
08:36:44 <ehird> AnMaster: yeah shows up as just "it is" here
08:36:53 <ehird> ï in naïve worked though
08:37:03 * AnMaster looks for some free space
08:37:07 <AnMaster> as in
08:37:11 <AnMaster> phyical for the laptop
08:37:41 <AnMaster> I just got memoserv spam...
08:38:02 <ehirdzilla> delay was more like 3-5s this time
08:38:17 <AnMaster> ?
08:38:19 <ehirdzilla> memoserv spam sounds fun
08:38:26 <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, switching navigator/chatzilla window
08:38:41 <ehirdzilla> the undrawn part of the cz window stays grey for a few seconds
08:38:46 <ehirdzilla> before it gets its act together
08:38:55 <ehirdzilla> same the other way around
08:39:05 <ehirdzilla> although cz->web is faster than web->cz
08:39:26 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, heh
08:39:37 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, how many MHz did you say?
08:39:42 <AnMaster> also: how much ram
08:39:51 <AnMaster> and: did you manage with linux?
08:40:36 <ehirdzilla> the g3 chip in here is 300mhz; the original powerpc something-or-other was 120mhz. 96mb of physical ram... and i put the empty 1.19gb drive as virtual memory (well, 990mb is all they allowed, but)
08:40:41 <ehirdzilla> also, I'm planning to start again from scratch today
08:41:12 <ehirdzilla> i have an 8064kb ram disk for the classilla (seamonkey thingy ported to mac os 9; recent) cache
08:41:32 <ehirdzilla> and the os has deemed that 2816kb is a jolly good size for the disk cache
08:41:58 <ehirdzilla> oops
08:42:10 <ehirdzilla> did i just send an empty message?
08:42:11 <ehirdzilla> seems not
08:42:46 * AnMaster notes clock battery is dead
08:43:26 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, my MPW dir is 119 MB
08:43:45 <ehirdzilla> on my system drive i have...
08:43:47 <AnMaster> may be some un-needed stuff in there
08:43:49 <AnMaster> like
08:43:52 <AnMaster> built examples
08:43:58 <ehirdzilla> 954.1mb free
08:44:03 <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, you don't have the floppy?
08:44:16 <ehirdzilla> i expect mpw puts like system extensions, no?
08:44:20 <ehirdzilla> so one dir wouldn't be all
08:44:21 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, as I said: I only have it installed already. Also this mac doesn't have a floppy
08:44:31 <ehirdzilla> oh right a weirdo mac :P
08:44:42 * AnMaster blinks
08:44:44 <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, is the networking really slow on yours too?
08:44:47 <ehirdzilla> it is on mine
08:44:49 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, You aren't ehird
08:44:56 <ehirdzilla> ":P"
08:45:04 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, well, not really. Just a bit slow.
08:45:13 <AnMaster> it is 100 mbps ethernet after all
08:45:16 <AnMaster> not 1 gbps
08:45:20 <ehirdzilla> but i get like 10/20/30KB/s instead of 500/600/700KB/s
08:45:24 <ehirdzilla> over the interwebs
08:45:33 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, yours *is* a bit older
08:45:37 <ehirdzilla> feels like dialup when loading pages
08:45:42 <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, yeah but...
08:45:46 <ehirdzilla> it's not even a megabit
08:45:52 <ehirdzilla> they don't make kilobit ethernet :P
08:45:55 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, anyway, if you want resedit or macbugs or similar I can package them up
08:45:59 <AnMaster> they are only one file each
08:46:09 <AnMaster> mpw I'm not sure about
08:46:10 <ehirdzilla> not particularly, i'm mainly interested in the progenitoring
08:46:21 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, then you *want* macbugs
08:46:25 <AnMaster> it helps when you are programming
08:46:31 <AnMaster> since you keep crashing the OS
08:46:32 <ehirdzilla> sounds like a debugger
08:46:36 <ehirdzilla> i don't believe in debuggers
08:46:41 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, yes. but system level one
08:46:42 <AnMaster> as in
08:46:46 <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, and it stops the OS crashing?
08:46:56 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, well, sometimes you can recover from it
08:46:58 <ehirdzilla> i doubt that's easy to recover from vs waiting the minute or so it takes to cold reboot
08:47:02 <AnMaster> rather than hard reset
08:47:04 <ehirdzilla> i mean in terms of effort/time
08:47:19 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, no journaled fs btw :P
08:47:24 <ehirdzilla> of course
08:47:28 <ehirdzilla> i don't even have HFS+ on this.
08:47:36 <ehirdzilla> waot
08:47:37 <ehirdzilla> wait
08:47:39 <ehirdzilla> i do
08:48:11 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, yep. OS 9 does. Oh and I have a defragmenter for it. Called "Norton SpeedDisk"
08:48:16 <AnMaster> for HFS+ that is
08:48:36 <ehirdzilla> ah the other disk is hfs
08:48:38 <AnMaster> I know how you can run that standalone
08:48:40 <ehirdzilla> system drive is hfs+
08:48:45 <ehirdzilla> auxiliary memory drive is hfs
08:48:50 <AnMaster> it can defragment hfs too
08:48:51 <AnMaster> iirc
08:49:01 <ehirdzilla> AnMaster, the virtual memory isn't actual files
08:49:08 <ehirdzilla> just extending the ram into the drive
08:49:59 <ehirdzilla> anyway if your program crashes the whole OS when it goes wrong the obvious thing to do is to write a lisp interpreter then program in that.
08:50:10 <ehirdzilla> w/ appropriate error traps, ofc
08:50:18 <ehirdzilla> it can't get any slower!
08:50:31 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, it is a file
08:50:33 <AnMaster> a hidden one
08:50:50 <AnMaster> there are lots of hidden ones
08:50:52 <ehirdzilla> right well you can't defrag a drive of one file much.
08:51:10 <ehirdzilla> i doubt it's putting blocks all over the place when it has the whole drive, more or less, to itself
08:51:38 <AnMaster> true
08:51:43 <AnMaster> system disk though?
08:52:10 <AnMaster> hm you could boot from install cd. Wasn't it 8.6 or later?
08:52:25 <AnMaster> then copy the defrag app the to the second disk
08:52:26 <ehirdzilla> i don't have the installation media
08:52:28 <AnMaster> and run it from there
08:52:30 <ehirdzilla> and eh
08:52:36 <ehirdzilla> my system disk doesn't appear to seek much
08:52:39 <ehirdzilla> at least i can't hear it often
08:52:46 <ehirdzilla> ram disk + cache does wonders
08:54:44 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, so do you want my mpw installed or will you download it?
08:54:45 <ehirdzilla> i'd like to soup up a 68k mac sometime :-)
08:54:47 <AnMaster> from apple
08:54:57 <ehirdzilla> well installed would kinda be nicer since it's in pieces on the apple site
08:55:05 <ehirdzilla> i don't want to install 30 things individually
08:55:07 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, pieces in what way?
08:55:14 <ehirdzilla> different files for each subcomponent
08:56:34 * AnMaster is copying it
08:57:44 <AnMaster> I will copy it over with the personal web sharing crappy web server I guess
08:59:02 <ehirdzilla> you have a .mac account?
08:59:08 <ehirdzilla> they're killing that shit off in favour of mobileme
08:59:18 <ehirdzilla> oh you mean
08:59:20 <ehirdzilla> locally
08:59:21 <ehirdzilla> thing
08:59:23 <ehirdzilla> right
08:59:45 <AnMaster> yes local thingy
08:59:53 <AnMaster> see the strip at the bottom
08:59:56 <AnMaster> near the end
09:00:47 <ehirdzilla> i removed that
09:01:01 <ehirdzilla> replaced it with a popup folder thing with application aliases in
09:01:02 <ehirdzilla> as buttons
09:01:07 <ehirdzilla> it's like the dock except not!
09:06:55 <Slereah> http://zip.secretareaofvipquality.net/src/1248794244319.png
09:06:56 <Slereah> :D
09:07:45 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, creating disk image...
09:07:45 <ehirdzilla> Mittens! :D
09:07:49 <AnMaster> sure slow
09:07:57 <ehirdzilla> cretining diskkkkk imagina
09:09:49 <AnMaster> ehirdzilla, looks like it will take quite a while
09:10:50 <ehirdzilla> wow, apparently http://system7today.com/ actually runs on 7.6
09:10:57 <ehirdzilla> with appleshare
09:11:11 <ehirdzilla> say what you want 'bout those guys, they sure are consistent
09:11:48 <AnMaster> linux supports appleshare iirc
09:11:55 <AnMaster> not sure how well
09:12:23 <ehirdzilla> in this case appleshare is being used to refer to server software
09:13:06 <AnMaster> ah.. not the protocol
09:16:02 <AnMaster> now it's compressing
09:16:05 <AnMaster> takes time
09:16:20 <ehirdzilla> remember to .hqx!
09:16:25 <AnMaster> well... I'm sorry but I have to leave now. hopefully it will be done when I get back so I can upload it then
09:16:39 <AnMaster> bbl
09:29:10 <oklopol> ehird: btw the nyt ie theme is perfect
09:29:21 <oklopol> reading wikipedia is now actually a pleasant experience
09:29:24 <ehird> the new york times ie theme? xD
09:29:27 <ehird> :P
09:29:37 <oklopol> erghERA
09:29:42 <ehird> Erghera.
09:29:44 <oklopol> eh
09:29:46 <oklopol> wtf
09:29:51 <oklopol> that wasn't a typo
09:29:54 <ehird> lol
09:29:58 <oklopol> i mean ew->yt
09:30:40 <oklopol> i guess it must be swedish
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09:57:37 <oklopol> didn't you listen to liszt, X?
10:34:13 <AnMaster> ehird, back
10:34:15 <AnMaster> now to copy it
10:38:12 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm not sure how to *.hqx without *.sit too
10:41:13 <oklopol> please switch to a better client
10:41:52 <oklopol> you know something modern like MIRC
10:42:24 <AnMaster> oklopol, who are you telling
10:42:29 <oklopol> you.
10:42:33 <AnMaster> ...?
10:42:45 <oklopol> or did you see my question and just didn't understand it?
10:42:59 <oklopol> well, it's only directed at you if the answer is yes
10:43:00 <AnMaster> I didn't see you highlight me anywhere
10:43:02 <oklopol> but i'm assuming it is
10:43:06 <oklopol> i didn't
10:43:11 <oklopol> "didn't you listen to liszt, X?"
10:43:22 <oklopol> i'm assuming you're X.
10:43:22 -!- calamari- has quit ("Leaving").
10:43:31 <AnMaster> well... sometimes
10:43:36 <oklopol> cool.
10:43:39 <oklopol> so you saw that?
10:43:51 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
10:44:23 <AnMaster> saw what
10:44:29 <oklopol> saw me ask that
10:44:39 <AnMaster> yes
10:44:43 <AnMaster> whatever. make sense
10:44:51 <oklopol> so, you've now seen me ask it twice?
10:45:11 <AnMaster> ehird, I have the file copied to my PC. Tell me when you are back so I can transfer it somehow
10:45:17 <ehird> i am back.
10:45:17 <AnMaster> I will be out during the evening btw
10:45:20 <AnMaster> ehird, ah hi
10:45:24 <ehird> filebin.ca
10:45:25 <AnMaster> well.. lets try dcc
10:45:28 <AnMaster> ok that then
10:45:30 <oklopol> AnMaster: did you see it in the backlog?
10:45:40 <oklopol> i said it just before you joined
10:45:45 <oklopol> so if you didn't see it, get a better client
10:45:56 <AnMaster> oklopol, yes I saw it in scrollback...
10:46:11 <oklopol> and you didn't realize it was directed at you?
10:46:17 <oklopol> weird, you've mentioned liszt to me
10:46:17 <AnMaster> "Upload any file. Must be less than 50 megabytes. Files will be kept in a rotating pool of space, and may be removed at any time."'
10:46:20 <AnMaster> ehird, ^
10:46:21 <oklopol> anyway, i like liszt
10:46:22 <AnMaster> no filebin
10:46:24 <AnMaster> file is 53 MB
10:46:34 <ehird> AnMaster: rapidshare.de
10:46:42 <AnMaster> ehird, dcc then rather than that crap
10:46:45 <oklopol> i should really communicate more clearly to AnMaster
10:46:49 <ehird> too slow; didn't bother.
10:46:50 <oklopol> *with
10:47:15 <oklopol> i just don't like having trivial conversations trivially
10:47:26 <AnMaster> ehird, uploading to there would be just as slow wouldn't it?
10:47:29 <oklopol> why use a retarded language like english if you want to be efficient
10:47:42 <ehird> AnMaster: not ime, but fine, give it a go
10:47:43 <AnMaster> ehird, same upload speed for me
10:47:50 <AnMaster> sec *sets up right ip*
10:47:58 <AnMaster> right here we go
10:48:16 <AnMaster> * Offering ToEhird.img.hqx to ehird
10:48:18 * AnMaster waits
10:48:27 <ehird> accepted
10:48:37 <AnMaster> ehird, doesn't seem to work?
10:48:54 <ehird> too probablyrouter; didn't getenoughsleeptotryandfix
10:49:11 <AnMaster> ehird, it is *I* who have to open a port to serve the file
10:49:19 <AnMaster> so hm
10:50:09 <AnMaster> ehird, actually. I blame my router
10:50:17 <AnMaster> I get connection timed out on it's web interface...
10:51:00 <AnMaster> lets see
10:51:33 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm going to upload it somewhere hm...
10:52:17 <AnMaster> ok I found somewhere to put it ehird
10:52:23 <AnMaster> please stand by while it is uploading
10:52:29 <AnMaster> ToEhird.img.hqx 3% 2240KB 88.6KB/s 10:20 ETA
10:52:31 <AnMaster> says scp
10:52:39 <AnMaster> also
10:52:45 <AnMaster> that is really .img.sit.hqx
10:57:32 <AnMaster> ehird, please stand by while it is uploading
10:57:36 <AnMaster> ETA 5 minutes
10:57:51 <oklopol> blah where's oerjan, i have a question about p-adic... i mean... i have cookies for him
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11:02:44 <AnMaster> ehird, http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/ToEhird.img.hqx
11:02:55 <AnMaster> ehird, tell me when you downloaded it so I can delete it
11:03:10 <ehird> ToEhird.img.hqx that downloads to ToEhird.img.si
11:03:10 <ehird> t
11:03:17 <ehird> wtf
11:03:19 * ehird cancels
11:03:22 <AnMaster> ehird, browser is autounhexing it?
11:03:25 <AnMaster> odd
11:03:28 <ehird> uhh...
11:03:39 <AnMaster> and yes it is a sit, couldn't hqx it without *.siting it
11:03:41 <AnMaster> as I said above
11:03:56 <AnMaster> didn't have any app for it at least
11:04:03 <AnMaster> brb food
11:13:42 <AnMaster> back
11:14:21 <AnMaster> ehird, that is the only format I can offer. I'm going afk for a bit, when I reconnect I will not have scrollback because I'm not going to quit this copy of the client (and thus the bouncer won't replay)
11:17:04 -!- ehird has quit.
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11:28:41 <ehird> pikhq: will woody → sarge actually work?
11:28:46 <ehird> seems it's the last that installs cleanly
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12:15:23 <oerjan> cookies, where? gimme!
12:15:40 <oerjan> oklopol: ^
12:19:48 <oklopol> alright, these aren't entirely cookies, they are more like, questions about p-adic cookies, although instead of cookies, more like numbers. basically, are those isomorphic to reals? i thought reals, or something having them as a subset, was the only way to complete Q
12:20:33 <oklopol> i haven't seen the formal proof, because this was just a side note where i read it, so i may have misunderstood
12:21:19 <oerjan> nope. the _algebraic_ reals are the only way to complete Q. i think.
12:21:31 <oerjan> all the other reals are just extra stuffing.
12:21:36 <AnMaster> ehird, fetched the file yet?
12:21:43 <ehird> no, it downloaded weird
12:21:47 <ehird> as i said
12:21:49 <oklopol> algebraic reals being..?
12:21:56 <AnMaster> ehird, use wget on mac os x?
12:22:00 <AnMaster> it should work
12:22:02 <ehird> AnMaster: eh
12:22:04 <ehird> i'm really tired
12:22:12 <ehird> you can just delete it
12:22:13 <oklopol> i can wp
12:22:14 <oerjan> those that are the roots of integer/rational polynomials
12:22:19 <oklopol> oh
12:22:25 <oklopol> but...
12:22:54 <oklopol> you don't need C for that?
12:22:58 <oerjan> that's as a field. as an _ordered_ field it's different. the p-adics are not ordered.
12:23:02 <oerjan> oh wait, right.
12:23:03 <oklopol> x^2 + 1
12:23:13 <oklopol> oh p-adics aren't ordered?
12:23:15 <oklopol> ahh
12:23:17 <oklopol> that's it
12:23:26 <oklopol> yes i was talking about the ordered reals
12:23:29 <oklopol> err
12:23:32 <oklopol> i mean ordered completion
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12:25:13 <oklopol> oh my god i'd love to see the construction of calculus on p-adics
12:25:24 <oklopol> why don't you want to teach me :P
12:25:34 <oerjan> unfortunately i know nothing about that.
12:25:54 <oerjan> except that they have a different metric/distance function.
12:26:11 <oklopol> yes, i know that much
12:26:19 <oklopol> except the metric seems very weird to me.
12:26:36 <oerjan> it does fulfil the triangle equality.
12:26:41 <oklopol> somehow big numbers are small, and most stuff doesn't seem to get ordered
12:26:48 <oklopol> right, is there a name for such metrics?
12:26:52 <oklopol> oh wait, i should know that
12:26:59 <oerjan> and i assume the p-adics are actually a completion in the metric sense.
12:27:08 <oerjan> "metric"
12:27:18 <oklopol> oh, right, heh :P
12:27:31 <oklopol> what do you mean completion in the metric sense?
12:27:49 <oerjan> that every cauchy sequence converges
12:27:57 <oklopol> yes, it means exactly that
12:28:17 <oklopol> converges ... the metric
12:28:32 <oklopol> i can't fill that ... but something mathematical like "up to" should be in there
12:28:45 <oklopol> well maybe your in the metric sense
12:28:46 <oerjan> in
12:28:52 <oklopol> right okay
12:29:24 <oklopol> so the metric is considered like some kinda grid on top of the space instead of a function from pairs to distances in that saying... so to speak
12:29:39 <oklopol> okay don't answer that :P
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12:49:17 * ehird has 5 floppies that, in theory, will install Debian woody, circa 2002, on an Old World PowerPC Mac.
12:49:29 <ehird> In theory.
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12:52:50 <AnMaster> ehird, well... I won't delete it until you downloaded it
12:53:00 <ehird> test time!
12:53:01 <AnMaster> anyway just wget under OS X and send over network or such
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13:05:03 <ehird> The woody install boots!
13:05:12 <ehird> I am currently using an awful fdisk thingy to badly mangle my disk.
13:06:08 <nooga> fdisk isn't awful
13:07:11 <nooga> it's utterly disgusting
13:07:39 <ehird> nooga lost a drive in a tragic partitioning accident.
13:13:09 <AnMaster> fdisk > cfdisk at least
13:13:10 <AnMaster> :)
13:13:29 <AnMaster> I never had issues with the linux fdisk
13:13:51 <ehird> parted is rather less soul-killing.
13:14:08 <ehird> 144mb enough swap for 96mb of physical ram?
13:14:11 <ehird> (* 1.5)
13:14:13 <ehird> i think so
13:14:18 <ehird> or should i go for * 2?
13:14:42 <ehird> eh, i'll leave it
13:14:45 <ehird> only 1.19gb in total after all
13:15:12 * ehird watches woody initialise an ext2 partition
13:15:16 <ehird> Cutting-edge stuff
13:15:19 <ehird> s/$/!/
13:19:10 <AnMaster> ehird, iirc parted has issues marking the right partition type on lvm partitions. But this may be a gparted issue. not sure
13:19:50 <AnMaster> ehird, dist-upgrade to lenny? :D
13:20:33 <AnMaster> wasn't woody the one that was stable for several years (because next release took a long time)
13:20:38 <ehird> AnMaster: No, dist-upgrade to sarge (wow, 3 years just passed). Then dist-upgrade to etch.
13:20:40 <ehird> Then dist-upgrade to lenny.
13:20:43 <ehird> Then dist-upgrade to testing.
13:20:51 <AnMaster> ehird, haha
13:20:52 <ehird> (or just upgrade; I forget how you switch to testing)
13:21:19 <AnMaster> ehird, what kernel is used on woody
13:21:24 <ehird> 2.4
13:21:35 <AnMaster> *nostalgia*
13:21:38 <ehird> Sarge promptly switched to 2.6, breaking everything. :-P
13:21:47 <ehird> There were many major changes in the sarge release, mostly due to the large time it took to freeze and release the distribution. Not only did this release update over 73% of the software shipped in the previous version, but it also included much more software than previous releases, almost doubling in size with 9,000 new packages. A new installer replaced the aging boot-floppies installer with a modular design. This allowed advanced installations (with RAID,
13:23:46 <AnMaster> ehird, "(with RAID"
13:23:49 <AnMaster> it was cut off there
13:24:25 <ehird> XFS and LVM support) including hardware detection, making installations easier for novice users. The installation system also boasted full internationalization support as the software was translated into almost forty languages. An installation manual and comprehensive release notes we
13:24:26 <ehird> re released in ten and fifteen different languages respectively. This release included the efforts of the Debian-Edu/Skolelinux, Debian-Med and Debian-Accessibility sub-projects which boosted the number of educational packages and those with a medical affiliation as well as p
13:24:29 <ehird> ackages designed especially for people with disabilities.[9]
13:24:40 <AnMaster> kay
13:24:44 <AnMaster> so wikipedia?
13:24:48 <AnMaster> ;P
13:25:56 <ehird> What should I hostname this slow but fun Power Macintosh Debian install? :P
13:26:06 <ehird> (AnMaster: No, not "tux".)
13:26:24 <AnMaster> ehird, hm...
13:26:35 <AnMaster> ThinkDifferent
13:26:39 <AnMaster> well
13:26:42 <AnMaster> something like that
13:26:45 <AnMaster> thinkslow?
13:26:50 <AnMaster> slow.thinker?
13:26:54 <AnMaster> br b
13:26:56 <AnMaster> brb*
13:35:53 <ehird> Aaaand it's downloading and installing the packages.
13:42:28 <ehird> Q: How come homeopath's computers don't have the memories of all the rubbish that's ever been on them, like their remedies?
13:42:32 <ehird> A: They zap the PRAM.
13:42:35 <ehird> (↑↑ WORST JOKE EVER)
13:43:03 <ehird> AnMaster: Welp, I just installed Quik, so now Mac OS 9 is inaccessible to me.
13:43:12 <ehird> Unless I attach a serial cable to use OpenFirmware.
13:43:14 <ehird> Hmm. :P
13:43:39 <ehird> time to try out my new debian box!
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13:46:24 <ehird> My new Debian box is great! I only have two complaints:
13:46:26 <ehird> 1. Doesn't boot up any more
13:46:28 <ehird> 2. Could do with some more booting up
13:46:40 <Deewiant> I think that solving 1 will help with 2
13:46:47 <Deewiant> I suggest going for that one first
13:46:48 <ehird> Yes, as do I.
13:47:00 <ehird> "Because it's very dependent on Open Firmware, and because the Open Firmware on Old World Macintosh is very buggy and difficult to work with, much of the information on this page describes how to work around firmware problems."
13:47:01 <ehird> Joy.
13:47:29 <ehird> [[All you see is a black screen, your keyboard does nothing. Or you just get a white screen, some kind of open firmware boot prompt, and your confused.
13:47:29 <ehird> The universal anwser is zap your PRAM (Parameter RAM). Yes, this resets all your boot settings, and messes up your color and networking settings in Mac OS.]]
13:47:31 <ehird> Zap your PRAM!
13:48:41 <ehird> Deewiant: Solving it won't exactly be easy, because it just does the chimes and then sits there without any feedback or input. :P
13:51:47 <ehird> Post-futuristic-baby-carrier-assault, OS 9 is now strating.
13:51:49 <ehird> *starting
13:51:56 <ehird> This does not exactly help me get at my Debian system
13:51:59 <ehird> s/$/./
13:55:14 -!- ais523 has joined.
14:02:00 <ehird> "The theoretical capacity of a Boeing 747 filled with Blu-Ray discs is 595,520,000 Gigabits, resulting in a 37,034.826 Gb/s flight from New York to Los Angeles."
14:02:26 <ehird> Hi, ais523. I'm zapping PRAM and patching Open Firmware and planning to upgrade Debian 7 years in a short space of time.
14:04:45 <ais523> ehird: impressive
14:04:54 <ehird> Quite.
14:05:44 <ehird> When the newest installation method that works is a floppy containing a Debian sarge netinstall, circa 2002, you know your platform's abandoned.
14:06:01 <ehird> wait
14:06:02 <ehird> not sarge
14:06:03 <ehird> woody
14:06:08 -!- M0ny has quit.
14:09:10 <ais523> ehird: wow
14:09:13 <ais523> what platform is that?
14:10:08 <ais523> hmm... summary of Slashdot news: Yahoo are now using Bing as their search engine after a deal with Microsoft, and a new type of cloud they've discovered turns out to be created by space shuttle launches
14:10:39 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
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14:18:27 <ehird> ais523: the platform is a PowerPC Power Mac with an Old World ROM
14:18:33 <ehird> (so it can't boot from CDs)
14:18:40 <ehird> *Macintosh, technically.
14:19:55 <ehird> i've been at this for… approaching 24 hours now i think
14:20:11 <ehird> i don't even plan on using it
14:20:23 <ehird> my attitude to the action is basically doing it :P
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14:22:41 <ehird> ais523: the main thing i've learned is that classic mac os hates you and does not want you to: install linux; be happy.
14:23:15 <ais523> how can one OS have any opinion on whether you can install another single-boot?
14:23:28 <ais523> you mean that classic macs hate you, not Mac OS Classic
14:24:48 <ehird> no, I mean mac os classic
14:24:55 <ehird> when you're getting what you need to install
14:25:10 <ehird> for example, you mustn't let it mount the floppy disk image or floppy while they're writeable
14:25:17 <ehird> because it will indiscriminately dump the bootb its
14:25:19 <ehird> *boot bits
14:25:29 <ehird> (without notification)
14:28:48 <ais523> why would you even run the OS at all?
14:29:32 <ehird> ais523: you pretty much have to with a classic mac
14:29:42 <ehird> yes, you technically could totally avoid doing it, but it'd be incredibly difficult
14:29:44 <ais523> so it can't just boot from a floppy, then?
14:29:51 <ais523> I actually have no idea
14:29:52 <ehird> yes. it can.
14:30:13 <ais523> so presumably, then, the issue is that you need a lot of information from the OS itself to make the disk image
14:30:41 <ehird> nooot really
14:30:44 <ehird> it's complicated
14:31:19 <ehird> ais523: but to give you an idea of the sort of environment, it actually can boot from CDs. as long as said CD is a mac os 8.6 (iirc as to the exact version number; probably newer versions too) install disc.
14:31:22 <ais523> I like complication, or I wouldn't be here
14:31:50 <ais523> the issue is that it attempts to validate the boot media as being genuine?
14:32:00 * ais523 suspects they guessed wrong again
14:32:11 <ehird> i don't even kno
14:32:12 <ehird> w
14:32:15 <ehird> s/\nw/
14:32:17 <ehird> i just hate this thing :P
14:32:38 <ehird> joy!
14:32:41 <ehird> or rather
14:32:42 <ehird> UNJOY
14:32:48 <ehird> the quik-from-mac-os thing don't done no detect
14:32:55 <ehird> so i'll have to boot the debian floppy again
14:32:56 <ehird> <3
14:34:11 <nooga> "do not done no detect" sounds weird
14:35:13 <ehird> perhaps becuse it is
14:35:43 <nooga> s/is/does/ ?
14:36:36 <ehird> it sounds weird because it is weird
14:42:46 <nooga> better
14:45:22 <ais523> ehird: at least you aren't being eaten by sharks yet, better quit while you're ahead
14:45:42 <ehird> [14:42] ehird: When installing Quik:
14:45:42 <ehird> [14:42] ehird: "Unable to set the OpenFirmware boot-command variable.
14:45:42 <ehird> [14:42] ehird: You may have intermittent boot failures."
14:45:43 <ehird> [14:42] ehird: …very…specific?
14:45:46 <ehird> ais523: are you sure about those sharks?
14:45:50 <ehird> my leg feels vaguely painful.
15:14:13 <ehird> AnMaster: sorry, I said woody is 2.4
15:14:15 <ehird> it's actually 2.2
15:34:22 <AnMaster> ehird, really?
15:34:27 <ehird> yep
15:34:28 <fizzie> I think I had woody too on the Performa. I did get a 2.4 kernel mostly working though, I think, maybe.
15:34:42 <ehird> i think i've found a way to do it modernly
15:34:47 <ehird> without GOD DAMN FLOPPIES
15:37:14 <fizzie> But FLOPPIES have SOUL, you know. Unlike these cold and mechanistic and plasticy optical things.
15:39:28 <ehird> fizzie: You can make it even more horrible by using a virtual CD rom drive.
15:39:34 <ehird> (Well, that might not work with the booting crapolashitfuck.)
15:40:43 <ehird> I think I can install it GRAPHICALLY, going STRAIGHT TO TESTING.
15:40:45 <ehird> On to EXT4.
15:44:09 -!- Sgeo has joined.
15:51:43 <ehird> <Disk Utility> Preparing for burn
15:51:44 <ehird> ICE BURN
15:54:42 <ehird> hmm
15:54:59 <ehird> the kernel can handle being on ext4, right?
15:55:01 <ehird> just not grub
16:20:12 <Sgeo> ..ok, why does my flash drive keep unmounting itself?
16:35:35 <Sgeo> Hooray, it unmounted itself again!
16:35:38 * Sgeo shoots someone
16:47:33 <ais523> ouch!
16:47:37 <ais523> good job that was only a flesh wound...
16:48:18 <Sgeo> On the plus side, new Fine Structure LD
16:48:19 <Sgeo> :D
16:48:46 <ehird> damn you ais523! (good job that was only a spiritual wound?)
16:49:19 <ais523> ehird: stop it
16:49:31 <ais523> seriously
16:49:39 <ehird> hey, I haven't said that for _months_
16:49:42 <ehird> like, whole of 2009
16:49:46 <ais523> doesn't make it any better now
16:49:47 <ehird> i retract it blah blah
16:50:06 <Sgeo> Um, what just happened?
16:50:14 <ehird> Sgeo: ais523 really hates people damning him.
16:50:19 <ais523> Sgeo: it takes a bullet a while to get from your location to mine
16:50:42 <ehird> ais523: food for thought, though; if I said I found the word "esolang" deeply offensive and cruel, would you stop using it in my presence?
16:51:03 <ais523> possibly, although in that case you'd be better off leaving this channel, because people tend to use it a lot here
16:51:11 <Sgeo> Esolang you, ehird! >.>
16:51:16 <ehird> Sgeo: ;_;
16:51:19 <ehird> Meanie.
16:51:47 <ehird> ais523: i'm aoulipophobic. i can't stand words with the letter "e" in them.
16:51:50 <ehird> (after this line.)
16:55:07 <Deewiant> ehird: That's eerie
16:55:16 <ehird> ;_;
16:55:29 <Deewiant> I wonder how you deal with your name
16:55:47 <ehird> Foul ghoul! Why must you taunt my id?
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16:58:15 <Deewiant> Because thine id exists in a state of apparent strife with the supposed fear
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16:59:52 <ehird> Robotic summation! Gasps and wasps! Nightmar— all around— your sayings so; in calm allow me, or I shall inform you: zap!
17:00:30 <ehird> fff
17:00:31 <ehird> "me"
17:00:34 <Deewiant> :-)
17:00:57 <ehird> did you notice :(
17:01:12 <ehird> how embarrassing
17:01:12 <ehird> :P
17:01:19 <Deewiant> Yes, I did :-P
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17:43:08 <ehird> hivposi: I am truly sorry for your lots
17:43:10 <ehird> *truley
17:45:00 * ehird wonders what inspired hivposi to pick said name
17:45:26 <hivposi> boyfriend from highschool
17:45:51 <ehird> I have nothing to say :P
17:47:28 <ehird> hivposi: if you got cancer would you call yourself braintumo?
17:48:00 <hivposi> no but it would be appropriate regardless
17:48:51 <ehird> hivposi: are you perhaps looking for magick to cure your ailment? this channel is about programming.
17:49:26 <hivposi> perhaps once i get some nano technology you can program a cure
17:50:19 <ehird> So… uh… hi?
17:50:49 <hivposi> hi nice to meet you
17:50:59 <ehird> This sure is awkward.
17:51:44 <ais523> hey, who took the konami code out of the topic?
17:51:47 <ais523> it was there for a reason...
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17:51:59 <pikhq> Female in chat? Hmm. Been a few years. :P
17:52:19 <ehird> ais523: that happened ages ago, man
17:52:21 <ehird> pikhq: no no no
17:52:26 <ehird> that student person
17:52:29 <ais523> ehird: yes, but the reason has come back again
17:52:31 <ehird> …liked mathematics
17:52:32 <ehird> ?
17:52:38 <pikhq> Ah.
17:52:46 <ehird> talked about drugs above the average amount iirc
17:52:57 <ehird> my mental classification scheme would work better if I had a photographic memory :D
17:52:59 <ais523> the whole point of the do not remove the %s under any circumstances was so people knew what the channel was about
17:53:04 <ehird> it applies photographic transformations to fuzzy memories
17:53:06 <ais523> although, why the %s became the konami code is beyond me
17:53:21 <ehird> ais523: i'm not _entirely_ sure it would have helped in this case :P
17:53:47 -!- ehird has set topic: "must not be in the topic at all times" must not be in the topic at all times. Also, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D..
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17:56:20 <oklopol> pikhq: there are more openly gay people here than openly girl people, so how did you know hivposi is a girl?
17:56:55 <ehird> Yeah I find it unlikely in this case.
17:57:13 <ehird> Due to at least our general demographics if nothing else.
17:57:14 <pikhq> oklopol: Oh, right.
17:57:22 <pikhq> More gay geeks than girl geeks.
17:57:40 <oklopol> i mean even without considering the nick, which i associated with posix, not hiv, btw :P
17:57:51 <pikhq> And most of the girl geeks are homosexual. Whoo.
17:57:55 <hivposi> haha
17:57:59 <oklopol> maybe posix is my weak spot when it comes to puns.
17:58:06 <ehird> pikhq: I find that to be generally untrue.
17:58:07 <oklopol> pikhq: was sukoshi?
17:58:14 <pikhq> oklopol: Bi.
17:58:19 <oklopol> sukoshi was totally hot for me
17:58:40 * pikhq misses Sukoshi.
17:58:54 <ehird> Anyway, I'm going to be a gigantic asshole and assume that hivposi is an idiot for (a) managing to get HIV in high school and (b) for some strange reason adopting this as a moniker.
17:59:00 <oklopol> i miss the #esoteric that was about esolangs :D
17:59:01 <ehird> News update: My asshole has taken off.
17:59:04 <ehird> It is now orbiting the earth.
17:59:15 <ehird> Correction. Inflationary measures now suggest that the earth is orbiting the asshole.
17:59:34 <hivposi> not infected, bad sense of humour
17:59:39 <hivposi> 1/2 ?
18:00:03 <oklopol> ehird: i had tons of unprotected sex in high school
18:00:04 <ehird> yet again i am struck by my inability to detect jokes that show no signs of being so
18:00:11 <oklopol> and in elementary school
18:00:16 <Deewiant> And in preschool?
18:00:19 <ehird> and in the womb
18:00:21 <oklopol> not so much, actually!
18:00:42 <oklopol> nerds weren't all that popular in preschool
18:01:14 <pikhq> GregorR: T-Rex is Lonely is also on Qwantz.
18:01:30 <oklopol> all i'm saying is not only idiots get sex diseases
18:01:33 <ehird> Next up on Qwantz: Ryan North Fellates Gregor Richards
18:01:38 <oklopol> also those who don't like condoms
18:01:41 <pikhq> Hahah.
18:01:44 <ehird> Followed by Also Have I Mentioned Gregor Richards Is Great?
18:02:06 <ehird> oklopol: actually you're an idiot you just have a free life pass to be one
18:02:21 <oklopol> :D
18:03:15 <oklopol> he could be GregorTheGreat now that rodger is gone
18:03:36 <ehird> GregorR: [[This is basically an experiment in "how silly does a concept have to be before Gregor WON'T buy a domain name for it?"]]
18:03:55 <ais523> ehird: that's the wrong way round, the sillier, the more likely the domain name happens
18:03:59 <ehird> Toiletry Products That Are Not For (A) Consumption, (B) Sex
18:04:07 <ehird> I eagerly await the domain.
18:04:11 <ehird> ais523: hey, complain to him, not me
18:04:12 <ehird> he wrote it
18:04:31 <ehird> GregorR: okay wait I have a new one
18:04:50 <oklopol> why am i staring at irc
18:04:59 <oklopol> ->
18:05:12 <ehird> Cloudsourced Folksonomy Determining the Exact Position of One Single Undetectable Dust Microbe on Russell's Teapot Using Methods Pioneered by the Invisible Pink Unicorn involving Time Cubic Principles
18:05:14 <ehird> dot com
18:05:42 <ehird> cloudsourcedfolksonomydeterminingtheexactpositionofonesingleundetectabledustmicrobeonrussellsteapotusingmethodspioneeredbytheinvisiblepinkunicorninvolvingtimecubicprinciples.com
18:05:59 <ais523> does that even fit in a DNS?
18:06:12 <ehird> Probably.
18:06:15 <ehird> Meanwhile, http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=0,5&comics=583,869&strip
18:06:22 <Robdgreat> pretty sure that's more than 63 characters
18:08:00 <ehird> just subdomainise it
18:15:10 -!- hivposi has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:15:19 <Robdgreat> then it'll look like an efnet hostmask
18:17:03 <ehird> :D
18:17:18 <ehird> man, efnet is so crap
18:29:19 <ehird> Compact flash defecation entering pillock's orifices — say, udders — demonstrating monotheism really turgidly umpires magical picking in Paris: understanding telephony; child pornography.
18:44:04 <ehird> No?
18:57:13 <Warrigal> Pong.
19:24:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
19:27:48 <ehird> Warrigal: Gnip.
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20:50:07 <oerjan> <ehird> News update: My asshole has taken off. <-- did you attach a string to it so that we can use it as a space elevator?
20:50:17 <ehird> Yes.
20:50:23 <ehird> A sphincter elevator.
20:50:31 <ehird> Sphinctelevator!
20:51:19 <oerjan> a small step for an asshole, a huge step for mankind
20:58:40 <FireFly> Meh, i thought of "string" as in text string first
20:58:50 <FireFly> Stop tricking my mind
20:59:57 <ais523> <Groklaw> And the judge has already denied SCO's request for expedited handling of the motion to shorten notice on its motion to sell the marketing of its Java patent.
21:00:10 <ais523> the SCO bankruptcy is getting more recursive by the day
21:00:51 <pikhq> It's requesting expediting a motion to expedite a motion.
21:00:57 <ais523> yes
21:01:09 <pikhq> Sorry, it is *moving* to request expediting a motion to expedite a motion. :P
21:03:25 <ais523> you'd think all that would take more time than just doing the motion in the first place
21:03:46 <ais523> and, of course, it all seems rather dubious that SCO patented Java in the first place, but you never know...
21:04:45 <ais523> oh, and SCO tried to sell the stuff from Novell that they still have but doesn't belong to them for $13,129.51, they said it was a typo
21:05:45 <pikhq> I think that is about SCO's worth these days.
21:06:11 <ais523> that's quite some typoo
21:06:13 <ais523> *typo
21:06:21 * ais523 proves Muphry's law once again
21:06:50 <ehird> SCO's worth is negative, surely
21:06:58 <ehird> they operate, iirc, at a loss, and the anti-reputation is huge
21:07:14 <pikhq> I'm including physical assets.
21:07:17 <ais523> ehird: their accounts showed rather large cash reserves
21:07:25 <pikhq> Surely their office buildings count for something.
21:07:45 <ais523> of course, nobody's entirely sure whether to believe them
21:07:47 <ehird> pikhq: factor in the huge risk of all that disappearing Quite Soon(TM)
21:08:20 <pikhq> I'm going with "worth if you liquidated all assets". :P
21:08:37 <ehird> getting a mac rom that can run system 6.0.8 is proving difficult
21:08:46 <ehird> (as opposed to minimum 7)
21:09:51 <ehird> it's especially annoying because YOU CAN'T PURCHASE IT
21:10:02 <ehird> the only way to get it is to hope someone wants to sell/give away theirs
21:10:07 <ehird> then extract it
21:10:14 <ehird> god copyright law is stupid
21:10:42 <pikhq> ehird: Especially annoying when you consider Apple gives away the OS install disks for free.
21:10:49 <pikhq> (classic Mac OS, that is)
21:10:50 <ehird> yep, I'm trying to use them
21:10:56 <ais523> I wonder why?
21:10:59 <ais523> to please the fanboys?
21:11:10 <ehird> ais523: because they're not worth anything
21:11:13 <ais523> it makes sense, given that there isn't much of a use for them but making apple look good
21:11:14 <ehird> and they're interesting historical curios
21:11:18 <ehird> also, a bunch of people like them a lot
21:11:30 <ehird> for instance, there are people who, as recently as 2001, used system 6 for their day to day tasks
21:11:39 <ehird> ais523: And, well… http://system7today.com/
21:11:43 <ehird> That site actually runs on System 7.
21:11:45 <ais523> does system 6 come just after system V?
21:11:50 <ehird> Lawl.
21:11:51 <pikhq> Whoa. Debian is switching to timed releases.
21:11:57 <ehird> Anyway, there's a— pikhq: seriously?
21:12:07 <ehird> "Debian: Because, like, let's just become exactly like Ubuntu."
21:12:11 <pikhq> Yeah.
21:12:27 <ais523> wasn't there a big move going on somewhere to make all major linux distros release on the same timetable?
21:12:32 <pikhq> ehird: Two-year cycle.
21:12:36 <ehird> ais523: what a horrible idea
21:12:39 <ehird> pikhq: correction —
21:12:43 <ais523> ehird: I didn't actually believe it would take off
21:12:44 <ehird> "Debian: Because, like, let's just become exactly like Ubuntu but a lot worse."
21:13:03 <ais523> maybe they want to be come Ubuntu feeder
21:13:06 <ais523> *become
21:13:14 <ais523> they are anyway, but unofficially, and are still useful as an independent OS
21:13:18 <ais523> maybe they're planning to merge, or something
21:13:23 <ais523> although that would be relatively awful
21:13:35 <pikhq> Exception: the next release will be out next year.
21:13:40 <ehird> I've held for a while that Debian should just merge with Ubuntu
21:13:51 <ehird> Give a proper, well-maintained 100% free version alongside,
21:13:56 <ehird> get the good attitude to upstreams
21:14:03 <ehird> get the greatness of Ubuntu
21:14:06 <ehird> and get Canonical's commercial support
21:14:12 <pikhq> Oh, wait. They've got time based *development freezes*. The release will happen after the freeze "when it's ready".
21:14:15 <ais523> and reply to bug reports on time?
21:14:22 <ehird> Exactly.
21:14:28 <ehird> Ubuntu are good at integrating, marketing and funding.
21:14:31 <ehird> Debian are good at the rest.
21:14:37 <ehird> Separate teams are just counterproductive.
21:14:41 <ehird> pikhq: x_x
21:18:01 <ehird> I don't suppose anyone has an m68k Macintosh? :P
21:29:05 <ais523> <Groklaw journalist> Mr. Spector was arguing that he still had time. One of the IBM lawyers had a stop watch.
21:29:11 <ais523> (Spector is SCO's lawyer...)
21:32:48 <pikhq> I am impressed with IBM's balls.
21:34:06 <ais523> there was a great moment a few weeks ago, where SCO had a last-minute agreement they'd just signed
21:34:16 <ais523> so recently, in fact, that they only gave IBM and Novell one copy between them
21:34:31 <ais523> didn't have more, how terrible
21:34:38 <ais523> I thought that was a great move, if a rather unconventional one
21:35:18 <ais523> someone should make a channel for esoteric lawyering...
21:36:16 <pikhq> ##nomic
21:36:25 <ais523> haha
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21:38:16 <Sgeo> And Pavitra checks out the fuss here, I take it
21:38:28 <ais523> yes, a cross-channel issue
21:38:34 <ais523> there are a lot of people in common between them
21:38:42 <pikhq> Yup.
21:39:03 <Pavitra> Well, a lot of ##nomic. Less, proportionally, from #esoteric.
21:43:18 <ehird> lol@bobthj/obama
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21:44:55 <Pavitra> ehird: wrong channel
21:45:10 <ehird> y'all mentioned the word nomic for several lines, so i get one
21:45:12 <ehird> deal with it
21:45:25 <Pavitra> :(
21:45:52 <ais523> note to the confused: ehird refuses to join ##nomic
21:46:10 <ehird> Note to the unconfused: ais523 delights in pointing out the fact that I don't talk in ##nomic every time it comes up.
21:46:22 <ehird> I could do it some more if you like…?
21:46:31 <pikhq> Note to the notes: Those responsible for the notes have been sacked
21:46:46 <ehird> Note to the pikhqs: Yes, but they were replaced by cards!
21:46:55 <Sgeo> lol ehird
21:46:59 <ehird> ohh snap
21:47:21 <Pavitra> The recursion of that pun is mind-boggling.
21:49:52 -!- dbc has joined.
21:49:57 <ehird> in fact i'm still discovering aspects of it
21:50:05 <ehird> i'm not entirely convinced it isn't mutating behind my back
22:00:24 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
22:02:30 <ais523> oh, we just did the calculations; apparently, a the weight of a £50 note in gold is worth about 75p at today's mass-market gold prices
22:02:41 <ais523> (where 'we' is an unspecified set of people including me)
22:02:49 <ais523> so a £20 note almost certainly is worth its weight in gold
22:03:05 <ehird> erm
22:03:12 <ehird> oh, i misread
22:03:38 <ais523> its volume in gold would almost certainly be worth a lot more
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23:14:53 <ehird> .
23:15:45 <oerjan> succinct
23:15:50 <ehird> .
23:16:32 <oerjan> now it is no longer succinct, since the two .'s could obviously have been compressed
23:17:03 <ehird> !
23:17:28 <oerjan> i really don't think shouting helps
23:18:26 <ais523> ..
23:18:27 <ais523> *...
23:18:57 <ais523> *…
23:19:01 <ehird> ,
23:19:12 <ehird>
23:19:14 <ehird> ;
23:19:19 <ehird> ()
23:19:20 <ehird> .
23:19:23 <oerjan> {- -}
23:19:28 <ehird> {-_-}
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