00:02:41 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 00:03:10 hm 00:10:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:10:54 heavy machinery 00:11:48 o 00:11:59 orthophony 00:12:21 fuck 00:12:37 fornication under consent of king 00:13:20 :o 00:13:32 colon operation 00:14:00 * ehird switches to ported rc w/ readline 00:14:02 from plan9port rc 00:14:06 rlwrap was fucking up 00:14:16 * ehird changes prompt from ; to % 00:17:00 night really 00:17:07 oh 00:17:10 ; as a prompt could be nice 00:17:14 since it causes rc to ignore the prompt 00:24:38 okiedokie, I am now using rc as my full-time shell 00:24:58 hmm this could interact stickily with plan9port tools using their rc 00:24:58 oh well 00:34:55 [[A bogger called Josh]] — The Register, referring to Joey Hess. 00:35:02 El Reg, the paragon of journalism! 00:35:10 And accuracy. And not making mistakes. 00:40:22 They got the first two letters right, that's 50%! 00:40:47 GregorR: O RLY? "bogger" 00:41:26 Oh, missed that entirely :P 00:41:40 [["Friends do not let friends use IE6," said Amy Barzdukas, Microsoft's general manager for Internet Explorer. 00:41:41 "If you are in my social set and I have been to your house for dinner, you are not using IE6," she said.]] 00:41:41 x_O 00:41:59 lol 00:42:44 lol, 00:42:46 "IE8 has been downloaded roughly 250,000 times since its March release" 00:42:56 that's only like 2x the downloads for the haskell platform windows installer 00:43:02 in a month 00:44:51 ... Firefox gets more downloads on release day, doesn't it? 00:45:53 C# is the best language in Za Warudo. 00:46:19 [Trolls about C#] 00:46:25 [Gets into a heated argument] 00:46:29 [Stops trolling] 00:46:32 [Gets shot] 00:46:37 Well hi everyone :P 00:46:42 GrayGnome`: Needs more monads. 00:46:57 Heh, true ;) 00:46:59 * coppro has never quite gotten monads 00:47:02 I never managed to wrap my head around monads though. 00:47:12 pikhq: it _has_ monads, iirc 00:47:22 since I can't find a good source about monads 00:47:26 Does XMonad use monads a lot? 00:47:32 all I know about monads is that the wIkipedia article sucks 00:47:34 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:47:37 and that's about as far as I've gotten 00:47:47 Wikipedia finds an amazing way to make everything as complicated as possible. 00:48:52 oerjan: It *has* them, but they use it for hardly anything. 00:49:04 And people don't realise that they're using monad comprehensions. 00:49:04 They were unable to use trigonometry to explain the sidebands in AM waves. They had to use Fourier and Hilbert to explain it. 00:49:38 Though I realize this isn't on topic for an esoteric langs channel :D 00:49:48 GrayGnome`: incorrect, it's on topic 00:49:52 discussion of programming is off topic 00:49:55 GrayGnome`: no, I mean that Wikipedia is simply factually incorrect 00:50:10 Oh. Yeah that happens too. 00:50:46 it appears to claim that monads are key to creating a function with an optional return value 00:50:51 (e.g. a nil value) 00:51:02 Side effects. 00:52:07 my understanding is that's how Haskell uses them; not the general case 00:52:11 though I could be wrong 00:52:12 What side effects? Haskell has none. 00:52:32 GrayGnome`: you like C# and you think monads are about side effects 00:52:38 my list of people to stab has grown a lot today 00:52:49 ehird: That was meant to be a comical introduction. 00:52:51 The IO a that main results in is simply a value that describes side effects. 00:53:04 I've done some coding in Java, and none in C#. 00:53:11 GrayGnome`: that's, uhh 00:53:12 And monads are about so much more than merely letting you do IO in a purely functional language. 00:53:13 meant to be better? 00:53:19 It is. I hope. 00:53:31 Monads aren't about side effects, I realize this. 00:53:37 Java is worse than C#. 00:53:41 Both are horrible. 00:53:58 I'm not disagreeing. 00:54:08 I do more C coding than anything. 00:54:42 on what OS 00:54:47 my question is: what is the difference between monads and functional composition? 00:54:48 Linux and Windows. 00:54:57 […] Windows. 00:55:01 Indeed. 00:55:03 Who uses that. 00:55:04 you may not know this, but you are actually dead 00:55:05 coppro: The two are completely different. 00:55:10 spiritually 00:55:15 pikhq: good, explain it to me 00:55:17 you are in fact a p-zombie 00:55:24 Now if you had asked about the difference between fmap and functional composition, I could say something. 00:55:24 That's okay, you seem to very alive and aware of the real world :P 00:55:29 A P-expression zombie? 00:55:32 Like, say, fmap being a generalisation. 00:55:43 coppro: a monad is a type of one argument with functions return::a -> m a and (>>=)::m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b. 00:55:47 that obeys some laws. 00:55:56 GrayGnome`: philosophical zombie 00:56:03 Where "m" is a monad. 00:56:06 ehird: please explain said syntax; that's what I ran into, and it's all Haskell to me 00:56:13 ehird: Oh I see. 00:56:22 coppro: trying to understand monads without learning haskell is uhhh 00:56:24 coppro: (a -> b) is a function from a to b. 00:56:28 write some CS papers first. 00:56:33 or just learn haskell 00:56:35 Well I've done a lot of hobby coding on SBCL. 00:56:43 GrayGnome`: that's a bit better. 00:56:46 ehird: monads are, supposedly, a general concept that doesn't need to be used in Haskell 00:56:46 If I get a philosophical green light. 00:56:54 coppro: no shit 00:56:59 but there's no way you have the right frame of mind 00:57:00 at all 00:57:00 I've also done Forth, BF, a bit of Haskell, Python, ... 00:57:07 coppro: Yes, but it's best to learn Haskell. Since Haskell uses them extensively. 00:57:09 GrayGnome`: okay, you're not a horrible abomination. 00:57:16 I do a lot of low level coding so I do a lot C work, heh. 00:57:19 ehird: :P 00:57:22 where did you come from? :P 00:57:24 I love Forth, but well. 00:57:25 ehird: why can't I have the right frame of mind? 00:57:28 <3 Forth 00:57:33 coppro: umm, because you don't 00:57:42 nobody does unless they're absolute CS geniuses & prodigies 00:57:49 (the kind of people who... made haskell) 00:57:52 heh 00:57:53 Haha yeah. 00:58:07 so basically the only path to being able to understand monads is learning haskell 00:58:38 it seems to me like it's just passing input from one function to another, really 00:58:43 While you're at it, you'll be able to learn the beauty that is a *real* type system. 00:58:53 coppro: Right. No side effects. 00:59:01 coppro: no, it's not 00:59:03 It may seem a bit brain dead, but that way you don't have undefined behavior. 00:59:06 'm a' does not contain an a 00:59:09 GrayGnome`: plz stop spreading misinformation 00:59:12 GrayGnome`: the lack of side effects is not part of this 00:59:22 oh, need to go to FNM 00:59:24 Oh sorry. I thought this wasn't about monads :P 00:59:32 FNM? 00:59:37 Friday Night Magic 00:59:39 bye 00:59:39 fuck no... marmots? 00:59:47 coppro: Enjoy your M10. 00:59:54 here i was thinking you were announcing your abstention from beastiality 01:00:01 And may you soon know the joy that is full-card art lands. 01:01:03 doo doo doo 01:01:14 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:01:17 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:45:13 back. 01:45:53 -!- Pthing has joined. 01:51:14 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 01:54:19 -!- oklokok has joined. 01:57:24 -!- oklofok has joined. 01:57:34 hi oklofok 01:58:52 hi. 02:00:31 you're an... oklofok. 02:02:00 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 02:12:57 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:13:16 yes. 02:25:00 yes. 02:30:47 hmm 02:30:50 does vt100 have italics 02:32:02 No 02:32:58 GregorR: just inverting, bold and underline right? 02:33:25 I'm writing a markdown2man, and mapping bold to bold (obviously), and italics to ... underline, I guess. 02:33:31 Since you can type it _foo_. 02:33:33 IIRC, "bold" is actually "alternative font" or something like that, so technically "alternative font" could be anything :P 02:35:16 * ehird attempts to find a small bsd man pag 02:35:16 e 02:35:19 there surprisingly aren't any... 02:35:33 ; man touch | wc -l 02:35:33 76 02:35:35 jeez! 02:37:23 man nop 02:39:40 " -l Lies. This is equivalent to while true;do;done, rather than being equivalent to ;." 02:42:55 xD 02:43:03 pikhq: you mean --lies=true. 02:43:12 It's gnuser friendly. 02:43:25 After all, the user can just guess it, right? 02:43:30 It's not like they'll have to look it up. 02:43:39 Therefore, we should make the invocation more verbose. 02:43:59 * ehird wonders whether to pilfer SmartyPants to automatically change "foo" into ``foo'' for th man page. 02:44:03 (AKA faggot quotes) 02:44:10 *the 02:44:13 methinks yes 02:44:50 after all, you use .Dq in roff 02:47:50 Hey, I found an error in a bsd man page. 02:47:56 MM The month of the year, from 1 to 12. 02:47:56 DD the day of the month, from 1 to 31. 02:47:56 hh The hour of the day, from 0 to 23. 02:47:59 Spot the odd one out. 02:48:30 XD 02:49:52 * oerjan doesn't get it 02:49:56 "the" 02:50:04 oh 02:50:52 * oerjan was looking for something substantial 02:51:35 so, I need to put the date somewhere on these files 02:51:47 (markdown files for converting to man format) 02:51:49 should it be the first line, the last line, or something else? 02:52:36 the date appears at the top of man source files and at the bottom of the output 02:52:45 I'm thinking the last line, so that when converting it to HTML it looks okay. 03:08:34 float 03:08:34 main(argc, argv) 03:08:36 Now that's a new one. 03:11:11 Tada! 03:11:30 Which would you rather write, http://pastie.org/584723.txt?key=gzcugqrr9szzyfcdzxmsaa or http://pastie.org/584724.txt?key=uziricsdgljqvdnsf07qkw? 03:11:50 (Note: If you answer "the former", I will have you institutionalised.) 03:13:09 Eh? Eh pikhq? ...GregorR? oerjan?! SOMEONE APPRECIATE MY HARD WORK ;_; 03:13:59 i can't appreciate your hard anything, that is grossly immoral and illegal 03:14:11 also what is it 03:14:13 the latter looks _distinctly_ non-esoteric. we will have _none_ of that. 03:14:21 oerjan: :p 03:14:25 Pthing: it is a thing 03:14:34 albeit not a pthing 03:14:35 man 03:14:37 things 03:15:16 it's not your pthang 03:15:36 and certainly not a pthong 03:15:56 ehird: I prefer the former, because the latter does not exist. 03:16:15 pikhq: Nuh-uh; I have rendered it to actual, readable HTML. 03:16:24 It's a trivial script to roundtrip that to roff format. 03:16:37 Sorry, there is no pastie #584724 or it has been removed. Why not create a new pastie? 03:16:52 trim the ? at the end 03:16:57 your client is stupid. 03:17:16 ? is a valid character in a URL. 03:17:47 Yeah, but it's at the end of a damn sentence. 03:17:55 And ? on its own at the end almost certainly does jack. 03:18:16 It makes the pastebin cry. 03:18:17 And if you've already seen a ?, well, the odds are stacking up here. 03:19:45 hmm, anyone knows how to implement a thread scheduler? 03:19:47 Anyway, my "format" is clearly superior. :P 03:19:50 Leonidas: Sure. 03:19:55 Leonidas: On the hardware or theoretically? 03:20:29 ehird: well, I've got a language with three commands: Color, Fade and Wait and I want to implement some kind of 'tasks' or 'threads' 03:20:38 Leonidas: Use OS threads. 03:20:47 We have more than one core nowadays. 03:20:52 Leonidas: unless you want them to be timed precisely 03:20:54 ehird: nope, won't work. 03:21:06 in which case, uhh, loop { each thread { step one } } 03:21:20 unless you want to handle wait 03:21:22 in which case like 03:21:45 ehird: the problem is, that I'm compling down to a language which only supports sequential execution 03:21:54 ........ 03:21:56 Which language? 03:21:57 look at my snippet 03:21:59 anyway 03:22:04 if you want Wait to wait for N steps 03:22:06 while running other threads 03:22:07 then 03:22:37 loop { each thread { if (.wait && .i>.max).wait = false; if (.wait) .i++; if (!.wait) step one /* sets .wait=True and .i=0 and .max=stepstowait if Wait */ } } 03:22:39 pretty much 03:22:41 ehird: http://ddc.har2009.info:8080/DDCAnimationServer/ 03:23:02 plz read up ↑ 03:23:07 the point is: the 'language' does not support threads, so I have to emulate them 03:23:18 ah, that looks interesting 03:23:29 it's just a trivial tick scheduler 03:23:40 step one instruction in each thread in turn; if a thread wants to idle, just skip it 03:23:50 ah, it's ms 03:23:55 Leonidas: for ms 03:23:58 you'll have to do 03:24:00 You can get more complex than that, of course, but that is at least a functional scheduler for threading. 03:24:02 miliseconds time 03:24:03 and then another 03:24:05 and then subtract them 03:24:09 to find out how much you've waited already 03:24:17 of course this can overstep, but you won't get anything better unless you have a hard real time OS 03:24:48 ehird: I could divide the Wait calls into two smaller wait calls 03:24:57 nice try, Zeno 03:25:01 Leonidas: lemme amend my funct 03:25:02 function 03:25:09 sec 03:25:31 * Leonidas somehow knew that this is exactly the right channel for this kind of question ^^ 03:26:52 loop { each thread { if (.wait) { .i += unixmstime() - .last /* add how many ms we've gone since the last update */; .last = .i } if (.wait && .i >= .max) { /* must be >=; we can take a long time on another thread and overstep */ .wait=False; } if (!.wait) { step one /* sets .wait=True and .i=0 and .max=mstowait and .last=current unix time in milliseconds if waiting */ } } } 03:26:53 Leonidas: tada 03:27:03 round-robin scheduler that handles msec waits 03:29:22 pikhq: did the pastie work 03:29:33 just reformatted it, will look into it, thanks! 03:29:38 Leonidas: :) 03:29:39 np 03:30:00 half past four, exactly the right time to hack on stuff ^^ 03:30:09 ehird: Yeþ 03:30:21 i'd stay up later if I could get to sleep afterwards 03:30:30 although i generally sleep after 6 anyway 03:40:54 -!- ehird has quit. 04:18:55 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:48:06 -!- Octalnet has joined. 04:48:10 Hey, buds. 04:48:33 hello 04:48:41 Quick question. 04:49:04 Does anyone know why some BF sources include the @ symbol? 04:49:17 Common debugging symbol. 04:49:17 huh 04:49:23 Oh. 04:49:35 Makes supporting Brainfuck interpreters dumb a section of the tape. 04:49:40 Erm. Dump. 04:49:44 Oh. 04:49:58 Hah. 04:50:04 pikhq: You're in ##brainfuck 04:50:23 Yeah, but nobody else. 04:50:54 I am. :D 04:53:37 pikhq: ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>++++>+++>+<<<<<-]>>>>>.<<<<++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++++.>++.<<+.-------.++.---.+++++++++.>++.>>.. 04:53:57 How long did it take me? 04:54:02 !bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>++++>+++>+<<<<<-]>>>>>.<<<<++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++++.>++.<<+.-------.++.---.+++++++++.>++.>>.. 04:54:04 Like, 2 minutes? 04:54:43 ^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>++++>+++>+<<<<<-]>>>>>.<<<<++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++++.>++.<<+.-------.++.---.+++++++++.>++.>>.. 04:54:43 .Hello, pikhq... 04:54:51 Octalnet: Eh. Brainfuck's not hard. ;) 04:54:59 No one said it was. 04:55:57 especially balanced loop brainfuck 04:56:12 I've never heard of unbalanced loops BF. 04:56:16 *loop 04:56:51 Anyone know of a good extension of BF? Not a crappy script kiddy project. 04:57:06 FYB! :P 04:57:11 <-- totally not biased 04:57:12 Octalnet: An unbalanced loop in Brainfuck is where the memory address changes over the loop execution. 04:57:21 [>] is the trivial example. 04:57:33 Oh. 04:57:35 Yeah. 04:57:53 FYB? *FYB*? I see your FYB and raise you a PEBBLE (which I totally don't have a host for, and I haven't touched in ages!) 04:58:15 No, really. What's the best BF extension? 04:58:25 FYB! :P 04:58:26 Something with a few more useful operators? 04:58:31 I'll check it out. 04:58:42 Octalnet: Why would you add operations? It's already T.C. 04:58:48 If I end up touching PEBBLE, I'll be making the vaporware that is PEBBLE 2 into reality. By making a proper compiler, rather than some stupid Tcl metaprogramming stuff. 04:58:49 I know. 04:58:57 Okay, wait. 04:58:58 Octalnet: What you want is a macro language. 04:59:07 cpp :P 04:59:07 Octalnet: I've never heard of unbalanced loops BF. <<< it just means at least one [] contains a different amount of >'s than <'s 04:59:19 Yeah. 04:59:30 I thought by unbalanced loop, you meant a [ with no ]. 04:59:36 also that was said already, sorry. 04:59:37 I thought something was a little odd there. 04:59:40 GregorR: Yes, I know you do CPP macros for Brainfuck. You're not everyone. 04:59:41 ah 04:59:58 pikhq: EXCUSE ME I TOTALLY AM EVERYONE. 05:00:03 No, listen. 05:00:06 Seriously. 05:00:29 Now, where was that... 05:00:32 I completely believe it's TC, but how do you implement conditional branches? 05:00:40 GregorR is a panegoist 05:00:54 oerjan: That's a panegoMANIAC to you. 05:01:02 Octalnet: if you don't know, you're lucky: you get the solve the puzzle yourself. 05:01:11 Okay, cool. 05:01:13 I think I agree with oklofok actually. 05:01:17 Listen, here's my theory. 05:01:23 Octalnet: What, like if? I will give you a hint: it can be done in about 20 characters. 05:01:47 Here's my... prototype. 05:02:20 GregorR: BTW, MBF is awful. :P 05:02:27 Clever, but awful. 05:02:30 ^^ 05:03:02 But in my idea of a BF conditional, you can compute == and != only. 05:03:03 BTW, if you need a host for PEBBLE, codu.org/projects is always available. 05:03:24 Octalnet: just have a conditional on 0 or not zero 05:03:33 GregorR: I'll let you know if I bother doing any work on it again. 05:03:56 you should separate whatever logic (comparisons etc) from that 05:06:34 -!- Octalnet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 05:06:45 bye 05:07:15 elbbep 05:07:21 -!- Octalnet has joined. 05:07:24 Sorry, guys. 05:07:26 I'm back. 05:07:29 hi again 05:07:36 it's okay 05:07:36 Was someone about to say something to me? 05:07:43 a|qqad 05:08:01 Octalnet: do you always apologize for joining a channel 05:08:31 oklofok: it's horribly rude, everyone knows we want to be left alone 05:08:33 Octalnet: did you see my "... separate ..." message? 05:08:49 Eh, no. 05:09:16 oklofok: I'm a tad over-apologetic. I apologize. 05:09:17 this must be the day of separation 05:09:30 left alone, ... separate ..., and i'm reading about separation axioms 05:09:37 `addquote oklofok: I'm a tad over-apologetic. I apologize. 05:09:42 Octalnet: don't worry, i do it all the time, irl 05:09:45 69| oklofok: I'm a tad over-apologetic. I apologize. 05:10:07 oklofok: Oh, I'm sorry for that. 05:10:50 Alright. I was asking about conditional branching. How would you go about this? 05:10:58 so umm i don't know if you saw my messages, so i'll repaste them 05:11:00 oklofok: Octalnet: just have a conditional on 0 or not zero 05:11:01 oklofok: you should separate whatever logic (comparisons etc) from that 05:11:14 Oh. 05:11:21 Oh, thats so easy. 05:11:28 I wasn't even thinking about that. 05:11:40 then what exactly were you thinking about 05:11:41 The pair of [ ] are conditionals by nature. 05:11:44 comparisons? 05:11:52 no, they are while loops 05:11:52 Oh. 05:12:02 They are conditionals. 05:12:04 Also. 05:12:25 They test whether or not a cell is 0. 05:12:31 Yes. 05:12:35 well yes, obviously they are how you implement conditionals 05:12:41 So, they're like boolean conditionals. 05:12:49 Anyhoo. 05:13:03 Let me go try to work some programs out. 05:14:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 05:15:47 Are there any other exceptionally worthwhile turing-complete esolangs out there? 05:16:34 I love the challenges of turing tarpits. 05:16:40 Like... 05:17:14 I tried learning Whirl, but the functions are arbitrary and hard to remember the order of on the function wheel. 05:17:40 do you want imperative languages 05:17:47 Yes. 05:18:24 I tried to learn whitespace, which I believe has to be one of the funniest original esolang I've seen. 05:18:45 But it's not well-documented enough (from what I could tell) to learn it practicaly. 05:18:48 *practically. 05:18:52 it is rather funny, yes. but the joys of syntax are finite 05:19:23 I really enjoy the minimalistic turing tarpits. 05:19:35 I still don't understand how P" works. 05:20:04 It's Brainfuck without the , or the . 05:21:13 Oh, wait. 05:21:17 I just got it. 05:21:19 I'm dumb. 05:21:43 What good is it if you can't output at the very least? 05:21:50 Not to say it's not TP. 05:22:50 It's only good for showing that a structured programming language can be Turing complete without goto. 05:22:52 :P 05:23:07 (from what I gather, that was actually an issue when it was published) 05:23:19 Yes 05:24:36 Ah. 05:24:39 Octalnet: mathematicians don't care about actual output, just read the state of the machine after halt 05:24:49 That makes sense. 05:24:54 and P'' is a mathematical construct more than it's an esolang 05:25:10 It's theoretical discussion, not programming discussion. 05:25:19 That the two have a large overlap is mere coincidence. 05:25:25 Ah. 05:25:39 (effing math, with its "All else is just a subfield" :P) 05:26:01 So, does anyone know of a worthwhile esolang? 05:26:10 Glass. 05:26:15 Really? 05:26:18 Alrighty. 05:26:34 Stack-based object-oriented programming language. 05:26:53 Glass is worthwhile? :P 05:27:11 GregorR: Esoteric language. 05:27:30 You know what I really hate and unfortunately Whitespace was forced to use? 05:27:40 ? 05:28:11 Dual-character commands with arbitrary effects unrelated to the standalone commands. 05:28:21 Like... 05:28:33 This one language I just found... 05:28:38 Called TapeBagel. 05:29:33 & (multiplication), @ (output), and &@ is a clear-screen command. 05:29:55 It leads to senseless memorization of combinations. 05:32:03 yeah, totally unlike learning say /$ for clear-screen :) 05:32:33 Ctrl+L 05:33:32 Sarcasm? 05:37:26 Octalnet: yep 05:37:36 ... that's different. 05:38:07 granted, it is somewhat different 05:42:02 Gregor! 05:42:34 I just realized that you're either Glass' creator, or a scandalous imposter. 05:42:48 or both? 05:43:27 Gregor is often a scandalous imposter. It's all the hats, I tell you. 05:46:28 Wow, Glass seems kind of complex. 06:00:26 -!- coppro has joined. 06:02:47 >++++[<++++++++>-]>++++++++[>++++<-]>>++>>>+>>>+<<<<<<<<<<[-[->+<]>[-<+>>>.<<]>>>[[->++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<[->+<]+>[->++++++++++<<+>]>.[-]>]]+<<<[-[->+<]+>[-<+>>>-[->+<]++>[-<->]<<<]<<<<]++++++++++.+++.[-]<]+++++ 06:03:44 It's not mine, just to let you guys know. 06:03:53 I found it and dubbed it amazing. 06:04:42 :D 06:04:54 The source code is even in the shape of a Serpinski triangle. 06:05:00 http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/bf-source/prog/triangle.bf 06:05:18 awesome 06:07:50 -!- Pthing has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:09:46 Wow. This has to be the largest and most complex BF program I've seen. 06:09:48 http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/bf-source/prog/css-brainfuck.bf 06:11:04 Is that... wow 06:11:16 that program is illegal in some countries 06:11:29 Yeah. 06:11:32 I know. 06:11:40 It decodes the 'illegal number', right? 06:12:29 On DVD? 06:12:32 *DVDs 06:14:09 no, that decrypts them 06:14:16 Whatever. 06:14:17 Hey... 06:15:25 Umm. 06:15:41 Cool, I just found an SMC version of BF. 06:17:32 SMC? 06:19:24 Self-modifying code 06:20:15 right 06:23:58 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:24:01 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 06:24:39 What's the best BF derivatives? 06:24:52 *Which are the best BF derivatives? 06:24:54 !bf >++++[<++++++++>-]>++++++++[>++++<-]>>++>>>+>>>+<<<<<<<<<<[-[->+<]>[-<+>>>.<<]>>>[[->++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<[->+<]+>[->++++++++++<<+>]>.[-]>]]+<<<[-[->+<]+>[-<+>>>-[->+<]++>[-<->]<<<]<<<<]++++++++++.+++.[-]<]+++++ 06:24:54 * 06:25:41 What's !bf? 06:26:03 !bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>++++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>+++.>++++.>++.+++.-------.<.<-------.++++.>.>-----------.>-.<+.+.<+.-----------------------. 06:26:03 I run BF code! 06:26:26 Oh. 06:26:38 !bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>++++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>+++.>++++.>++.+++.-------.<.<-------.++++.>.>-----------.>-.<+.+.<+.-----------------------. 06:26:38 I run BF code! 06:26:42 Cool! 06:26:46 !help 06:26:47 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 06:27:06 !bf_txtgen okokokokokokokoko 06:27:08 95 +++++++++++[>++++++++++>++++++++++>++++++++++>+<<<<-]>+.>---.>+.<.>.<.>.<.>.<.<.>.>.<.>.<.>.>-. [573] 06:27:13 That's freakin' awesome. 06:27:28 !bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++>++++++++++>++++++++++>+<<<<-]>+.>---.>+.<.>.<.>.<.>.<.<.>.>.<.>.<.>.>-. 06:27:29 okokokokokokokoko 06:27:48 Oh, that's just too cool. 06:28:57 !bf_textgen I am EgoBot! 06:29:12 Wow. 06:29:13 Failure. 06:29:17 !bf_txtgen I am EgoBot! 06:29:20 113 ++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>+.>>----.<+.++++++++++++.>.<<----.>------.++++++++.<---.>.+++++.>+.>--. [884] 06:29:23 No, bf_txtgen uses a genetic algorithm. 06:29:26 It takes a while. 06:29:30 Ah. 06:29:35 oklofok's was only fast because it was trivially simple. 06:29:44 No... 06:29:45 !bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>---.>[.<.>] 06:29:45 ok 06:29:59 OH 06:30:04 !bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++>++++++++++<<-]>+.>---.<[.<.>] 06:30:07 The failure was in you writing !bf_tExtgen >_> 06:30:09 Mine didn't work because I had "textgen" in lieu of "txtgen" 06:30:11 * GregorR failure :P 06:30:18 Lawls. 06:30:39 !bf ++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>+.>>----.<+.++++++++++++.>.<<----.>------.++++++++.<---.>.+++++.>+.>--. 06:30:39 I am EgoBot! 06:30:50 what does EgoBot do with too long output 06:30:52 ignore? 06:31:01 oklofok: CTCP 06:31:18 The main reason for using that method is to bother ehird. 06:31:20 well that's a theory 06:31:22 !bf [+] 06:31:27 Lawls. 06:31:33 I just killed EgoBot. 06:31:42 Octalnet: Time limits, memory limits, limits limits limits. 06:31:50 If you want to kill a bot, 06:31:55 `run echo 'Kill HackEgo.' 06:31:56 Kill HackEgo. 06:32:37 (Mind you, HackEgo actually has more severe restrictions, it just feels more hackable because you can write to the filesystem on HackEgo :P ) 06:32:43 I guess it doesn't handle input. 06:32:46 That's cool. 06:32:59 Yup, sowwy, no input. 06:33:22 Guys. 06:33:47 Nope, no guys either. 06:34:08 What's the best BF ripoff out there? 06:34:50 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_derivatives 06:36:12 I'm looking at that list right now already. 06:36:33 I wanted to know y'all's opinion before I thumb through 50 wiki pages. 06:37:14 We have no opinions :P 06:37:23 Except that FYB is awesome! AND I'M TOTALLY NOT BIASED 06:39:49 What's FYB? 06:39:58 I can't find it in any of the Esolang repos. 06:40:03 FukYorBrane 06:40:05 Because I've already looked. 06:40:07 Oh. 06:40:10 THat? 06:40:18 That was the code battle thing. 06:40:24 Yeah :P 06:49:46 -!- Octalnet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:58:23 -!- coppro has quit ("switching OSes"). 07:05:05 -!- coppro has joined. 07:11:01 -!- Octalnet has joined. 07:11:06 Holy shit. 07:11:08 Guys. 07:11:29 I just found a working BF program whose source is 2.1mb in size. 07:12:34 -!- Octalnet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:13:18 Oo 07:14:14 -!- Octalnet has joined. 07:14:19 Sorry again. 07:14:37 Anyways, I just found a working BF program whose source is 2.1mb in size. 07:15:00 It's called LostKingdomBF. 07:15:57 * coppro just had a terrible, terrible, terrible idea 07:16:05 it transcends terribility 07:16:54 hmm... /me now wants to make a BF variant that can be compiled to relatively speedy machine code 07:17:07 -!- augur has joined. 07:17:18 (without an optimizer) 07:18:05 Ouch. 07:18:53 You know what I was thinking about? It's completely pointless, but I can recreate BF to have only 5 commands. 07:19:01 And still work the same way. 07:19:28 +->< (some conditional?) 07:19:59 You'd have a command to invert the 'command state', then use a single command for , +/-, [/], and ./, 07:20:17 So basically, based on what state the 'command state' is in, that command will be executed. 07:20:19 :D 07:20:29 It's completely pointless, like I said. 07:21:24 Octalnet: you could go one better and merge [] into |, also based off command state 07:21:38 I know. 07:21:55 Like... 07:23:38 x could be the state changer, = could be +/=, _ could be ./, , and | could be [/] 07:23:47 *... could be +/- 07:24:20 So, instead of say... 07:25:13 Nevermind. 07:25:18 Wait. 07:25:32 !bf_txtgen Hello. 07:25:37 70 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>+.>+. [202] 07:25:45 Instead of that... 07:27:50 =========|>========>===========>=====>=x>>>>=|x>_>==_=======__===_==_>=_ 07:27:53 Lawls. 07:29:07 But it's completely pointless. 07:55:52 -!- Octalnet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:34:54 anyone know a good calendar app for linux? Being able to sync with phone over bluetooth is a must 09:37:23 You *are* obsessed with time and date, it seems. :p 09:38:06 hah 09:38:33 Evolution would probably be a bit overkill. 09:38:51 fizzie, yeah and the sync setting in evolution only seems to want to sync to palm pilots 09:39:16 or at least I couldn't find a way to sync over the standard syncml thingy that my phone supports 09:42:22 On another channel I think someone used OpenSync to speak to their phone; that thing has so many plugins one would assume that any calendar software can be used with it. 09:42:32 hm 09:42:34 I don't think it's a very polished piece of software, though. 09:43:02 fizzie, well I tried opensync, it is able to dump contacts and calendar from the phone, but it wasn't able to sync contacts with thunderbird at least 09:44:12 It does have a mozilla-sync plugin, which claims to do Thunderbird contacts and Lightning/Sunbird calendar events. No first-hand experiences here, though. 09:45:13 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 09:45:29 fizzie, hm 09:46:28 fizzie, someone mentioned "sunbird" on another channel, any experience with it? 09:47:16 Well, I tried it back when it was very pre-alpha, and (gasp!) it was quite buggy. 09:47:40 hah 09:47:49 Also tried Lightning, which I guess is pretty much the Sunbird code except mangled into a Thunderbird extension. 09:47:58 It was equally buggy. 09:48:22 no need to have it in thunderbird 09:48:23 But this was some years (not many, but more than one) ago, it's likely they have fixed at least some of the bugs. 09:51:19 The Sunbird resembled the OS X "iCal" a bit; nothing too fancy, but it did the basics. I have no clue about the syncability; back then it did the standard ical-over-webdav thing, didn't look for phone-syncing. 09:52:07 OS X managed to sync events with the really crappy calendar in the N-Gage, though. I don't even know what sort of protocol the phone uses. 09:53:17 Oh right, now I remember; it actually worked by sending some sort of Symbian app to the phone. 09:54:01 Though it seems that there's also a Nokia-provided SyncML app for it too. Sort of a moot point, I don't have bluetooth in anything else than the iBook. 09:55:13 There still seems to be an "iSync Config" app in the phone, haven't used it in ages. 09:56:00 fizzie, it seems opensync supports sunbird 09:56:19 fizzie, likely syncml in that phone 09:56:50 or not 09:57:14 What I got from the interweb is that there's no built-in SyncML in the phone, but on the driver CD that comes with it there's a syncml-speaking separate app for it. 09:57:45 The iSync program might use something completely proprietary, though. 10:07:45 fizzie, about synergy, I find a delay setting of 200 works quite well 10:08:05 it is enough to be able to drag borders of maximised apps, yet not enough to be annoyingly slow 10:09:42 What did you do with the two-mice thing? 10:16:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 10:23:23 -!- Judofyr has joined. 10:23:33 fizzie, gave up on it 10:23:51 fizzie, was two keyboard as well originally, gave up on that too 10:45:40 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:58:51 -!- Sneezle has joined. 11:13:50 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:14:11 -!- Judofyr has joined. 11:37:31 fizzie, there still? 11:38:32 hm guess not 11:53:09 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:53:29 -!- Judofyr has joined. 11:56:54 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:03:22 -!- M0ny has joined. 12:04:32 hi 12:29:29 M0ny, hello 12:29:53 what's up ? 12:29:55 btw, I found a Betamax cassette in a box in the attic, what on earth should I do with it... 12:31:24 \o/ 12:32:44 i didn't know this kind of cassette existed... 12:41:45 M0ny, well, they are completely obsolete 12:41:55 I don't have any way to play it 12:42:07 i know, i'm reading the wikipedia page 12:42:20 M0ny, also it is unmarked, could be blank, could be something on it 12:42:23 I will never know 12:43:03 there isn't any old stuff shop in your city ? 12:43:59 or maybe a brocante 12:44:07 M0ny, you mean like for 1800 century tables and so on? 12:44:18 yes 12:44:19 doubt that shop would be interested in this 12:44:27 also, not a city, small town 12:44:37 oh ok 12:44:41 or possibly midsized town 12:44:51 i found some NES games in a brocante some weeks ago 12:44:58 * AnMaster googles brocante 12:45:04 lol 12:45:13 No definitions of brocante were found in English 12:45:16 :O 12:45:17 M0ny, so what is it 12:45:27 i don't know the word in english, google said that is the same word 12:45:31 wait 12:45:34 "Definitions of brocante on the Web in French:" 12:45:35 well 12:45:37 there are some 12:45:41 but they are all in French 12:45:45 which I don't understand 12:45:55 M0ny, google saying same word can also mean "google has no clue" 12:46:04 in fact, most of the time it is like that 12:46:43 brocante = secondhand market 12:47:35 try google "brocante translation" is case of foreign words... 12:50:10 Sneezle, hm 12:50:11 well 12:50:15 maybe 12:50:34 btw about translations 12:50:53 there are some extremely funny words in English (to a Swede that is) 12:50:59 smorgasbord 12:51:10 that is originally a Swedish word, but with dots dropped 12:51:17 lol 12:51:19 making it 1) sound completely different 2) look silly 12:51:22 and 12:51:35 if you don't know this word, look it up 12:51:49 when you done that I will provide a literal translation of the Swedish original 12:52:00 (which would work quite well in English) 12:52:03 M0ny, Sneezle ^ 12:52:45 * AnMaster waits 12:52:53 hmm 12:53:37 M0ny, ? 12:53:47 yes ? 12:53:55 what are you waiting for ? 12:53:56 looked it up/know the meaning? 12:54:01 nop' :/ 12:54:17 translating it literally first would spoil the effect 12:54:19 Smorgasbord is a meal with a variety of hot and cold savoury dishes 12:54:45 Sneezle, "sandwich table" 12:55:00 I can't see why English couldn't use that instead. Which is what it means 12:55:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%B6rg%C3%A5sbord :D 12:56:00 M0ny, yep. usually English spelling is without the dots though 12:56:23 It is a buffet style table in a restaurant, or at home served at a holiday, prepared with many small dishes 12:56:26 and for Swedish, åäö are NOT variants of aao, but rather separate letters 12:56:34 as in, found in the alphabet 12:56:46 have very different sound compared to and o as well 12:56:47 it seems, the word is used in spanish as well 12:56:49 to a and o* 12:57:59 modern usage: This valley is just one long smorgasbord :) 12:58:40 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:58:54 "smorgasbord" maybe a cool esolang name too :) 12:59:12 hehe 12:59:19 Sneezle, hm? 12:59:29 Sneezle, I don't understand what it would mean in that context 13:00:23 it's from http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/sm/smorgasbord.html -- i don't get the meaning as well, but "this valley is just...(whatever)" sounds like "this is boring" 13:00:44 huh 13:01:45 -!- EgoBot has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:01:45 -!- sebbu has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:01:45 -!- Leonidas has quit (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:01:48 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 13:10:51 -!- Leonidas has joined. 13:30:45 -!- jix has joined. 14:06:06 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:34:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:38:35 `addquote Gregor is often a scandalous imposter. It's all the hats, I tell you. 14:38:36 70| Gregor is often a scandalous imposter. It's all the hats, I tell you. 14:38:54 :) 14:45:43 You'd have a command to invert the 'command state', then use a single command for , +/-, [/], and ./, 14:46:21 i'm not convinced that would work for [/] 14:47:20 there will no longer be any way to nest loops 14:47:56 hm, well, unless invertion is static 14:48:03 *sion 14:56:09 -!- Sneezle_ has joined. 15:03:14 -!- Sneezle has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 15:28:46 -!- oklopol has joined. 15:45:05 There's black toilet paper in this hotel -- now *that's* fancy. 15:45:39 Not that there's anything wrong with that. 15:48:02 I'd provide some photographical evidence, but my phone hasn't heard of this thing called "upload". 15:49:44 It's actually just covered in charcoal, and leaves your rear the same way. 15:49:53 eek 15:50:00 -!- oerjan has quit ("Later"). 15:50:22 Now you scared him off. 15:51:41 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:52:05 And oklofoo too! 16:05:06 -!- Asztal has joined. 16:09:43 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:47:13 fizzie, about phone 16:47:18 do you have any bluetooth on it? 16:47:30 and what about a computer with bluetooth? 16:50:13 -!- ehird has joined. 16:52:00 ahahaha 16:52:08 tuomov continues to push the boundaries of hilarious idiocy 16:52:14 http://modeemi.fi/~tuomov/ → "?" 16:52:18
16:52:18 content 16:52:19
16:52:24 default.css → 16:52:27 .use_a_textmode_browser { 16:52:27 visibility: hidden; 16:52:28 } 16:52:28 .use_a_textmode_browser:before { 16:52:28 content: "?"; 16:52:28 visibility: visible; 16:52:30 } 16:52:34 (despite having styles before it) 16:54:25 *facepalm* 16:55:27 the ultimate irony is 16:55:35 What kind of an idiot forces you to use a text-mode browser, anyways? 16:55:41 he has a blog post ranting about the freetype fascists forcing "blurry" (anti-aliased) fonts on everyone 16:55:42 Oh, right. Tuomov. 16:55:47 and wants THE CHOICE 16:55:53 ............................................... 16:55:55 and........ 16:56:00 ... Isn't Freetype configurable? 16:56:02 then forces you to use a text mode browser. 16:56:03 IN FACT 16:56:05 NOT EVEN TEXT MODE 16:56:10 just non-CSS supporting 16:56:14 netscape 1? Youbetcha. 16:56:20 Elinks? No way. 16:56:21 elinks? Nope. 16:56:24 :D 16:56:35 pikhq: yes, it is; he doesn't like the hinting or something 16:56:36 or wait 16:56:40 no, he just refuses to edit the xml config 16:56:40 iirc 16:57:04 "I want the choice, but I can't be arsed to actually edit the config file"? 16:57:16 It has angle brackets. It is unacceptable. 16:57:29 http://modeemi.fi/~tuomov/b//archives/2006/03/17/T20_15_31/ 16:57:29 http://modeemi.fi/~tuomov/b/archives/2008/03/20/T13_47_17/ 16:57:35 ↑ bask in the stupidity 16:57:38 I could understand being upset about it being an XML config, but... Come on. 16:57:48 Note: Replace "fascist" with "person I dislike". 16:57:52 That doesn't mean that Freetype is forcing you to use anti-aliasing. 16:57:55 what's :before? 16:58:12 before the tag? 16:58:14 oklopol: lets you add content and style it before an element 16:58:21 although no HTML or anything 16:58:24 so it's mostly useless 16:58:25 but you can do things lik 16:58:26 e 16:58:30 if you want to turn a
    menu into 16:58:32 item / item / item 16:58:33 you can do 16:58:41 .item:after { content: ' / ' } 16:58:45 .item:last:after { content: '' } 16:59:15 oh. 16:59:40 oklopol: basically he hides the element then puts ? before it 16:59:43 I find it amusing that he complains about using serif fonts, yet his CSS defaults to a serif font. 16:59:45 == replacing the element with ? 16:59:57 ehird: i realize what, but how would you get to see the content? 17:00:06 i don't know what textmode is 17:00:08 *that 17:00:15 oklopol: terminal, console; but 17:00:20 it just needs to be a browser that doesn't do CSS 17:00:24 or has it disabled 17:00:27 he incorrectly equates these 17:00:27 ohhh 17:00:33 elinks is terminal-based and does CSS 17:00:36 netscape 1 is graphical and doesn't 17:00:42 use_a_textmode_browser is a hint for the browser...er 17:00:58 yes. 17:01:03 but he doesn't care, I imagine. 17:01:06 i'm a bit slow at this stuff 17:01:06 just wants you to fuck off. 17:01:15 pikhq: I also like how in one of his posts he praises the beautiful beautiful Helvetica for screen... without antialiasing. 17:01:20 IT WAS DESIGNED AS A SMOOTH PRINT FONT. 17:01:23 IN THE 50S. 17:02:26 but umm so basically he's saying people should read webpages in source form? or does he actually *mean* "without css"? 17:02:32 ........... 17:02:40 oklopol: terminal browsers such as w3m 17:02:42 and lynx 17:02:47 don't support CSS 17:02:50 therefore 17:02:52 oklopol: He means "text mode", and assumes that all text mode browsers don't have CSS. 17:02:56 they won't parse the CSS STYLESHEET 17:03:02 and thus won't apply the no-display 17:03:04 thus being able to see it 17:03:11 however, graphical browsers can disable CSS 17:03:14 and older graphical ones don't do it 17:03:18 and some terminal ones like elinks DO do css 17:03:22 i don't know what textmode is, i'm asking whether it's just "ignore css", or whether it's "just show the source as it is" 17:03:31 TEXT MODE = TERMINAL/CONSOLE YOU RETARD 17:03:33 i already told you that 17:03:34 fucking hell 17:03:34 oklopol: Text mode = TERMINAL APPLICATION 17:04:05 wtf man pages use .Nm to refer to their name instead of just including it 17:04:12 i don't see how that has to do with whether css applies, and i don't see how that has to do with whether the source is parsed either 17:04:21 oklopol: It doesn't. 17:04:22 But. 17:04:26 Most terminal browsers 17:04:28 don't do CSS. 17:04:33 Most graphical browsers 17:04:33 do. 17:04:39 He is incorrectly equating them. 17:05:37 i get that, i was just asking whether terminal browsers usually parse the source, or do they just show it, because i have absolutely no idea whether anyone uses them. 17:05:49 but i guess they do parse it, and show it in some slightly more sensible form 17:05:49 ... 17:05:52 if they just show the source 17:05:54 they're not a browser 17:05:57 they're curl(1). 17:06:05 sure 17:06:13 They are like normal web browsers, except they use curses instead of a GUI library. 17:06:19 well they could parse the essential stuff like hyperlinks 17:06:26 WHAT'S CURSES 17:06:48 i have a clue what curses is 17:06:51 oklopol: Okay, what exactly makes most sense for a web browser to do? 17:07:02 pikhq: parsing the source 17:07:21 Then what makes most sense for a *terminal* web browser to do? 17:07:30 exactly that 17:07:35 There you go. 17:07:38 i don't see why that makes the question stupid 17:07:58 "Just showing it" is curl(1) or wget(1). 17:08:06 ... Which makes it an HTTP client, not a web browser. 17:08:09 sure, but you could parse it a little. 17:08:16 xD 17:08:20 So, your question was "Is the web browser a web browser or an HTTP client"? 17:08:21 :) 17:08:45 well it could've parsed hyperlinks, and ignored some of the font etc tags 17:09:02 What the hell sort of use would that be? 17:09:13 eh, i'd probably prefer it 17:09:26 ... 17:09:39 :D 17:09:44 You'd prefer that over a normal web browser that *happens* to be using curses? 17:10:48 you seem to have misunderstood me, i'd probably prefer it over a normal web browser 17:11:39 ... You are a masochist. 17:11:42 losing all style information because of ehird was the best thing that ever happened to my browsing experience 17:11:51 well yes, sexually 17:11:56 nuh uh, no style information was lost 17:11:57 and i guess otherwise too 17:11:58 just twiddled a bit 17:12:01 it still has layout 17:12:03 ehird: well true 17:12:14 layout i might miss somewhat 17:12:17 ...or not 17:12:28 Conkeror was the best thing to happen to my browsing experience. 17:12:31 curses is evil anyway 17:12:35 "No clicking!" 17:12:43 pikhq: die. 17:13:01 ehird: >:D 17:13:12 * ehird kills pikhq with good mouse interfaces 17:13:15 ACME IN YOUR FACE 17:13:33 I prefer good keyboard interfaces over bad mouse interfaces, mmkay? 17:14:11 anyway you people really shouldn't treat me as a nerd, much better to just assume i know nothing that doesn't have mathematical significance 17:14:38 pikhq: So don't use bad mouse interfaces. 17:14:39 i mean i do know some stuff, but that's the better approximation out of 0%/100% 17:14:40 * pikhq shoves some UNIX manuals down oklopol's throat 17:14:46 btw, conkeror is not a good keyboard interface. 17:15:11 unix is a theoretically insignificant piece of shit 17:15:14 ehird: It's not a discoverable keyboard interface, you mean. 17:15:15 but yes 17:15:17 i should read about it 17:15:21 oklopol: oh snap 17:15:27 well you are right really 17:15:36 plan 9 takes some unix stuff and makes it all fluffy and theoretical 17:15:42 it's quite elegant 17:15:45 pikhq: same thing 17:16:39 oklopol: UNIX is good to know because it describes how everything works right now. Not because it's high-minded, elegant theory, but because it's pretty much the LCD of commonly used OSes. 17:16:45 i've heard of plan 9 about a trillion times, never even bothered to google it, some kinda cool new os, and something about a murderer... or was the murder about something else, or was it another crime..? :P 17:16:54 pikhq: he doesn't care 17:16:56 :P 17:16:59 oklopol: it's not new 17:17:04 it's also not hip 17:17:12 oklopol: dev started in 80s, released 92 17:17:15 open source nowadays 17:17:17 oklopol: same people as unix 17:17:21 official successor 17:17:29 oklopol: basically, "everything is a file", and files aren't physical 17:17:39 the filesystem is just a namespace of namespaces and entities 17:17:42 pikhq: but i'm not really a nerd, i do theoretical CS and mathematics, and i'm only interested in the theory. 17:17:44 well 17:17:51 not only interested in that, but mostly interested in that 17:18:05 oklopol: all the windows have a bunch of files, for instance 17:18:06 By "same people", yes, he means the exact same people. 17:18:07 all the sockets 17:18:14 you can connect to another server by mounting its remote filesystem 17:18:19 and other more wacky stuff 17:18:23 i'm somewhat interested in what's happening in the nerd world, but not *that* much more than i'm interested in the pop music scene 17:18:26 like a filesystem of fibonacci numbers or something 17:18:37 oklopol: it's not really popular at all 17:18:47 it's on the lunatic fringe of the semi-enlightened :P 17:18:53 although it runs on an ibm supercomputer. 17:19:15 oklopol: oh, and you can distribute computation across N machines trivially 17:19:15 well okay that sounds like what unix tried to be 17:19:21 not really, unix tried to work 17:19:26 :P 17:19:27 but it turned out to be simpler to do a lot of things with files 17:19:28 well right 17:19:33 plan 9 just took that principle and turned it to 11 17:19:44 same philosophy, different goal, maybe? 17:19:48 sorta 17:19:58 oklopol: but it's very pure 17:20:07 not really any compromises to practicality, though it's that too 17:20:14 It's basically UNIX without the hacks. 17:20:20 oklopol: the ui is cool too 17:20:27 it blends text windows and graphical windows into one 17:20:29 And, of course, designed a couple decades later. 17:20:35 you can write text anywhere and also put graphics anywhere 17:20:37 ehird: oklopol: oh, and you can distribute computation across N machines trivially <<< i'd love to hear more about this 17:20:45 oklopol: it's pretty much what it says 17:20:53 not much too it; I'm not sure about the specifics 17:20:55 oklopol: Mount the other computers. 17:21:00 pikhq: no 17:21:02 that's the filesystem 17:21:11 i wish people would stop guessing without noting that it's a guess 17:21:12 Mmm. Right. 17:21:32 ehird: something like "split process_id machine1 machine2 ... machineN"? :P 17:21:42 it's more sophisticated than that 17:21:45 and not so... hacky 17:21:47 more baked in 17:21:51 yeah 17:21:52 oklopol: anyway, the UI actually makes really good use of the mouse 17:21:53 that's what i was asking 17:21:59 and is theoretically nice 17:22:02 also, they invented UTF-8 for it 17:22:02 that would be very hacky 17:22:23 because you couldn't actually manipulate "parts of the computation", just actually do the split 17:22:27 yeah 17:22:31 and if you needed something else, you'd need a new prog 17:22:46 -!- Pthing has joined. 17:23:05 oklopol: you'd prolly be able to use plan 9 as your main os, it even has a sort of okay browser or two 17:23:06 xD 17:23:14 and there's a python port, dunno about ghc 17:23:30 well it can run any posix-esque program 17:23:33 but that doesn't fit in very well 17:24:25 i need irc and a text editor, and as many programming languages as possible, although i only need either python of haskell for daily use (yes, i've gotten myself to use it every now and then! :P) 17:24:57 oklopol: there's an irc client for plan 9; filesytem-based 17:25:09 Think: UNIX turned to 11. Why *wouldn't* they have a text editor? ;) 17:25:11 also there's the fact i need stuff like gcd and factorials daily, and J is simply faster to use for that than writing the func every time, or importing it, 1 character versus ~10 17:25:12 you can use acme (basically a graphical terminal with editor; it's great) as a UI for it 17:25:31 also of course i need a browser... or a http client 17:25:36 oklopol: text editor you can use acme (the actual editing part is very bare-bones) 17:25:38 *an 17:25:42 oklopol: there are a few barebones browsers 17:25:52 they won't be able to run javascripty stuff like gmail 17:25:58 but they'll prolly display wikipedia okay 17:26:39 i would say i don't need javascript, but probably i'd even miss flash. 17:26:56 oklopol: why, for youtube? 17:27:00 WHO WANTS YOUTUBE! 17:27:08 ... but you could probably make a lil script to download youtubers. 17:27:08 well, yes, for one :P 17:27:35 if you use an acme-based web browser you could just name it youtube and add 'Youtube' to the toolbar 17:27:40 then middle click on a youtube page 17:27:43 wouldn't solve flash gameys though 17:27:49 also flash games :\ i mean i'm not that interested in them, i but i do play them, i don't wanna be an anmaster. 17:28:00 "i can't because i use a lesser OS and can't do flash" 17:28:02 oklopol: you could use the standalone player via the posix emulation layer 17:28:04 might do X11 17:28:11 oklopol: then make a cmd that downloads the relevant flash and opens it 17:28:13 oklopol, heh! 17:28:14 but uh 17:28:20 dunno. 17:28:20 WHY NOT 17:28:44 hi ehird 17:28:46 ehird: i'm not sure its 17:28:49 err 17:28:52 *-everything 17:28:56 xD 17:28:56 http://mirtchovski.com/p9/xkcd.png 17:29:05 ehird: i'm pretty sure i could just have a windows machine for the occasional needs 17:29:08 or an ubu machine 17:29:11 whatever 17:29:19 oklopol: oh if you have another then you could just vnc in 17:29:25 have the other machine as a lil plan 9 window 17:29:35 true 17:29:42 that'd be just awesome 17:30:35 anyway what i might actually want to try is have like this tiny os, just http, irc, text edit, really fast boot, and persistency 17:30:35 hmm 17:30:46 oklopol: plan 9 boots in like seconds 17:30:58 cool. 17:30:58 persistency is basically there because everything uses files 17:31:06 so it's more transparent than your typical windows/unix saving affair 17:31:18 well i mean like, shutting down doesn't actually do anything 17:31:24 you'll start where you left off 17:31:30 yeah, I know 17:31:33 i guess that's what you mean as well, with persistency 17:31:36 alas plan 9 isn't totally that, but 17:31:41 by convention it's quite similar 17:31:45 because 17:31:52 first, files are really ingrained 17:31:59 so it's not like you have much stuff bobbing about memory 17:32:08 and yeah. 17:32:25 oklopol: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Acme.png ;; you'll probably like the font 17:32:28 yeah, but i'd love to have an os that doesn't make a distinction, because even the slightest deviance from it makes it a necessary thing for me to consider... but yeah i could live with that 17:32:41 well yeah ehirdOS isn't gonna have that distinction 17:34:18 oklopol: plan 9's filesystem is nicely unhierarchical 17:34:26 for instance, /bin isn't just stuff actually in the system bin 17:34:37 uhhh sexy 17:34:38 it is /386/bin (on an x86 machine) 17:34:41 and /usr/you/386/bin 17:34:42 etc 17:34:48 just links, and garbage collection? 17:34:49 bunch of unions and bindings and everything 17:34:53 oklopol: well no not gc :D 17:35:04 but not much of an emphasis on directories physically being where files are 17:35:08 then there must be some kinda hierarchy... i mean assuming the basic idea is the same 17:35:19 yeah 17:35:20 no 17:35:22 you don't see it 17:35:23 i mean sur 17:35:24 e 17:35:27 at the end of a day 17:35:30 a file's probably somewhere 17:35:34 but since you can bind it to any namespace 17:35:36 not really. 17:36:19 without gc, i'm pretty sure i need to know what the hierarchy is... but i guess i might be wrong on this one, should see it before judging it. 17:36:37 i mean at least for deleting 17:36:50 yeah no that isn't a problem at all 17:37:23 oklopol: oh and as seen in http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Acme.png taking a screenshot of the window is simply converting /dev/window to a png 17:37:28 /dev/screen for... the screen 17:37:42 obvious stuff, but cool 17:37:58 (/dev/window being another name for like the actual path to the current window) 17:39:26 yummy, conversions 17:39:40 anyway i think i should do some stuff now 17:39:42 png isn't exactly suited to blitting to a display :P 17:40:02 have to increase my knowledge about the theorical aspects of computing 17:40:07 hf 17:40:12 iw 17:41:45 gg 17:42:35 fu 17:43:11 oklopol: by? 17:43:28 "back why"? 17:43:38 my leaving is a slow, gradual process 17:43:54 especially when i leave to another window, leaving this one open 17:49:40 oklopol, you are leaving? 17:50:55 quick, lets discuss something oklopol is interested in 17:51:02 ehird, ^ 17:51:12 cd .. 17:51:13 argh 17:51:14 oklopol: but why 17:51:15 wrong screen 17:51:16 but why fuck you 17:51:17 etc 17:51:23 the 17:51:39 ehird, synergy is cool and such, but often I forget to move the mouse between the monitors 17:51:52 so clearly eye tracking would be cool for selecting which screen should have the focus 17:52:03 Uhh, you can't type in windows that you haven't clicked. 17:52:13 Why should it be different for ones on another computer? 17:52:18 ehird, well indeed, but it is active, just on the wrong computer 17:52:24 and I forget that computer isn't the active one 17:52:26 Oh. 17:52:30 AnMaster: write a script 17:52:33 hook into synergy 17:52:38 basically 17:52:39 what would it do 17:53:01 AnMaster: report to the other computer when a window is focused, and listen to the other; when it is informed of this, it defocuses every window 17:53:08 (or just focuses the desktop, same thing really) 17:53:52 ehird, I wouldn't notice the colour of the window border being "defocus" most of the time... 17:53:54 ehird: "back why" was indeed kind of a weird guess, as it isn't english :D 17:53:59 since synergy already does that it seems 17:54:06 but a full screen terminal window 17:54:22 AnMaster: you would, though 17:54:22 ehird, also it doesn't defocus properly for virtualbox in seamless mode 17:54:26 and i was actually going to say fu, then find another meaning for it, but i guess i forgot the latter part 17:54:27 e.g. Konsole, when defocuses 17:54:32 changes the cursor to [] 17:54:34 unfille 17:54:34 d 17:54:55 ehird, well yes true. but what if I'm using some ncurses app hiding the cursor 17:55:01 don't. 17:55:07 ehird, or any GUI program? 17:55:08 anyway, if you don't notice that a window's not focused, you could make the same mistake on one screen 17:55:15 synergy adds nothing 17:55:19 AnMaster: title bar 17:55:32 AnMaster: oh, question: how better is the trackpoint than the touchpad? 17:55:43 ehird, on one screen I usually don't, because a window doesn't defocus automatically like that. I'm not used to that 17:55:46 err 17:55:49 I usually do* 17:55:50 saw an ibm thinkpad yesterday as well as some dells with touchpads. was a bit slow on the thinkpad 17:55:51 I think 17:55:53 obviously a learning curve 17:55:56 half removed double negation 17:55:58 failure 17:56:11 ehird, hm... 17:56:27 ehird, I used trackpoint a few times before, and touchpad a few times before too 17:56:44 basically with a trackpoint i curved a lot more 17:56:50 I would say trackpoint is quite a bit better than touchpad 17:56:52 and it was kinda hard to stop moving so swiftly and do more precise stuff 17:56:55 though: 17:57:00 The TrackPoint III and the TrackPoint IV have a feature called Negative Inertia that causes the cursor's velocity to "overreact" when it is accelerated or decelerated. Negative Inertia is intended to avoid feeling of inertia or sluggishness when starting or stopping movement[2]. Usability tests at IBM have shown that it is easier for users to position the cursor with Negative Inertia, and performance is 7.8% better [3]. 17:57:01 ehird, you realise this depends a LOT on what you are used to 17:57:04 they were like circa 2004 17:57:10 AnMaster: I haven't used either more than about twice in my life. 17:57:36 ehird, frankly, I prefer a good mouse on a table 17:57:37 A number of ergonomic studies to compare trackpoint and touchpad performance have been done [8][9][10]. Most studies find that touchpad is slightly faster; one study found that "the touchpad was operated 15% faster than the trackpoint"[10]. Another study found that average object selection time was faster with a touchpad, 1.7 sec compared to 2.2 sec with a trackpoint, and object manipulation took 6.2 sec with a touchpad, on average, against 8.1 sec with track 17:57:45 I'm fastest and most exact with that 17:57:52 point[11]. 17:57:54 ehird, however, the trackpoint works well 17:57:59 AnMaster: Frankly, I cannot carry around a table. 17:58:01 one issue is long term use 17:58:06 ehird, of course 17:58:34 ehird, use the trackpoint with the same finger in bejewled or so for half an hour and your fingertip feels pretty numb 17:58:47 If I plug in an external monitor and mouse, I'll just become averse to taking it elsewhere, because I'll notice the difference. 17:58:53 haven't been successful in using it well with other fingers than my index finger 17:59:26 trackpoints are obviously better than mice or trackpads for FPSs, at least :P 17:59:31 ehird, but then, bejewled (sp?) is a pretty mouse intensive game 17:59:43 it works fine when you don't use the cursor all the time 17:59:47 since you can spin without having to pick up the mouse and move it or whatever 17:59:49 like, writing stuff or so 18:00:10 ehird, haven't tried image editing at all with either touchpad or trackpoint 18:00:19 I doubt I would manage well 18:00:26 err 18:00:29 Thankfully, I am completely without image editing talent. 18:00:32 grammar 18:00:45 ehird, well, what do you do with your photos 18:01:01 if you say your mobile phone lacks camera then clearly you aren't ehird 18:01:06 Examine their non-existence. 18:01:12 Well, I've taken a few. 18:01:16 Mostly I just ... use them directly. 18:01:21 Maybe some downsizing. 18:01:28 ehird, and some curve adjustment? 18:01:35 ;P 18:01:50 ehird, btw, the trackpoint, I don't curve at all with it 18:02:00 ehird, not sure if it is IV or whatever 18:02:01 You know, the original iPhone's camera is pretty bad. I'm not sure there's any use in trying to make its photos better. 18:02:27 My hands are way too shaky to take good photos anyway. 18:02:41 ehird, an issue, which I haven't yet found the cause to, is spurious double click 18:02:48 I suspect I somehow rest my hand on the touchpad 18:02:53 while clicking for the trackpoint 18:03:05 it was awkward to hit the buttons while using it 18:03:07 but I'm not completely sure 18:03:21 well i say buttons, the trackpoint buttons are more like keys 18:03:27 ehird, shaky hands? 13 years old? 18:03:28 huh 18:03:29 which is not very expected 18:03:36 I mean, my grandma has shaky hands 18:03:45 (she didn't like 10 years ago) 18:03:51 AnMaster: it's not exactly common to have unsteady hands 18:04:16 ehird, well that is what I said 18:04:20 unless you meant "uncommon" 18:04:26 err right 18:04:27 i meant uncommon 18:04:30 right 18:04:31 AnMaster: it's not like they shake all the time 18:04:34 just if I try and rest them in midair 18:04:40 ehird, you did like me then, removed half of the double negation ;P 18:04:41 if my arms were less weak it probably wouldn't happen 18:05:20 not uncommon != common 18:05:43 ehird, what about trying to make them less weak. Like doing press ups 18:05:58 ;P 18:06:21 too much work for no gain 18:06:48 ehird, what about a tripod for your phone then 18:06:49 :D 18:07:13 i keep in perfect shape simply by praying 18:07:13 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:07:20 AnMaster: You joke, but it has been done. 18:07:35 The 3G S has a nice camera. 18:07:39 ehird, there is a phone with tripod mounting? 18:07:39 i mean *preying 18:07:46 oklopol, heh 18:07:49 Someone made a tripod for their iphone. 18:07:51 no heh 18:07:54 that was stupid! 18:08:01 ehird, fun 18:08:15 It's pretty cool; the photo quality is good. 18:08:57 ehird, googling resulted in this: http://www.geekalerts.com/mobile-phone-tripod/ 18:08:59 *blink* 18:09:10 commercially sold? 18:09:21 Oh, those Nokia multimedia phones. 18:09:23 and this http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=45373&doy=search 18:09:24 They have good cameras. 18:09:29 They're basically hybrid camera/mobiles. 18:09:47 ehird, optical zoom? 18:09:48 I'll try and find the one I was talking about. 18:09:54 AnMaster: dunno. 18:10:13 because, digital "zoom" is just "crop" basically 18:11:39 Eh, I can't find the one I was talking about. 18:11:53 It was full-size, though. 18:12:11 hm ok 18:12:29 ehird, but it doesn't look very stable? 18:12:30 as in 18:12:44 the phone isn't *firmly* attached 18:12:53 The one I saw had it completely latched in. 18:14:52 ehird, if it isn't very firmly attached, a long exposure without flash (say, 20 seconds exposure during night, in star light), could be hard 18:15:25 generally you use a button at the end of a cable to take the photo in such cases 18:15:30 It was so firmly attached that the screen had flickering lines before loosening it a bit. 18:15:40 -!- M0ny has quit. 18:15:54 ehird, loosing it yeah ;P 18:15:55 anyway 18:16:44 cameras are generally screw mounted or mounted with some quick attach that snaps in place 18:16:52 my camera and tripod uses the former variant 18:18:30 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:18:46 huh, why does iwlagn causes lots of wake ups even when not connected to a network 18:19:22 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:19:40 cancer radiation. 18:20:02 ehird, :D 18:20:15 nah, seems it is scanning for available networks all the time 18:20:17 the computer is getting cancer. 18:20:20 from rocks. 18:20:30 the wifi is totally incidental. 18:23:25 ehird, another thing that helps a bit for the WLAN is to disable hardware crypto, that is use the software crypto instead 18:23:33 Er, why? 18:24:15 ehird, reduces the issue with failing to connect for WPA2 networks (but not WPA ones) 18:24:16 it seems 18:24:42 I don't use WPA. :P 18:25:02 ehird, in fact, it seems this bug is caused by a lot of different things, so probably different (but related) bugs causing similar symptoms 18:25:07 ehird, the uni does btw 18:25:14 RADIUS stuff 18:25:25 How strange. I've only heard of unprotected university networks. 18:25:35 ehird, yes it surprised me too 18:25:42 Seems rather pointless. 18:26:16 "XCB (replaces Xlib, protocol described in XML)" 18:26:16 Seriously, reddit? 18:26:22 XCB is bad because its protocol is described in XML? 18:26:33 I poop on you. 18:27:03 I wouldn't assume negativity, but it was posted by "lispnik". 18:27:26 I never heard of it being in xml, but it wouldn't surprise me 18:27:32 since freedesktop seems to love xml 18:27:44 that's freedesktop.org 18:27:58 freedesktop.org is a great initiative; I wouldn't use XML but it's the least work. 18:28:27 (I might just be biased because Havoc Pennington has a really awesome name.) 18:28:31 ehird, well, yes it is a good idea. But sometimes implementations are less than ideal 18:28:32 like hal 18:29:24 The whole point of having it in XML is, of course, to automatically generate a lot of XCB's code. 18:29:57 And XCB is great: it tries to be a library for toolkit authors to use, rather than the massive pile of cruft that tries to be programmer-friendly and fails epicly. 18:30:04 argh, there is some outdoors rap concert thingy a few blocks from here 18:30:16 * AnMaster looks for something to block his hearing temporarily 18:31:32 ; fn printer { echo 'fn print_'^$1^' { echo '''^$1''' }' } 18:31:32 ; `{printer hello} 18:31:32 fn not found 18:31:32 Darn. 18:31:38 I was going to say something about code generation. :P 18:31:43 (Still possible, you just gotsa use eval.) 18:31:53 ; eval `{printer hello} 18:31:53 ; print_hello 18:31:53 hello 18:32:09 Also, since $1 has to fit in a name, the echo '''^$1^''' bit could just be '^$1^'. 18:32:14 Also I missed out a ^ after $1. 18:32:51 ehird, looks like forth? 18:32:55 rc shell. 18:33:02 http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/rc.html 18:33:02 http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man1/rc.html 18:33:06 ehird, ah, I was wondering a bit about the {} 18:33:08 I use it as my login shell. 18:33:11 that didn't look very forthy 18:33:11 It's very nice. 18:33:14 but the ; did 18:33:24 So you need an XML processor to process the Window descirptions, like wxwidgets XML? 18:33:36 err 18:33:40 And FreeDesktop.org... My complaint about it is that it focuses on X11 rather than replacing X11. But at least it's trying to make something sane on top of that, so. 18:33:43 GrayGnome`, what? 18:33:58 GrayGnome`: No, no. 18:34:04 pikhq, maybe it could be like an arch 18:34:07 The XML describes the library itself. 18:34:08 AnMaster: In reference to Xlib. 18:34:11 And XCB. 18:34:16 pikhq, you uses something insane to support it while building it 18:34:20 pikhq: Ohhh. But it's a C lib? 18:34:21 but when finished, it is self supporting 18:34:23 They then generate the C library from the XML. 18:34:26 pikhq, see what I mean? 18:34:33 AnMaster: More readable rc transcript: http://pastie.org/585088.txt?key=8letokmt8wmixt6b5wk54q 18:34:34 And the XML library is formally verified. 18:34:36 AnMaster: Hmm. 18:34:52 ; is the prompt. 18:35:01 (So you can copy-paste input lines and the ; will just be ignored as an empty command.) 18:35:08 ehird, you don't like fancy prompts I guess 18:35:14 See above. 18:35:17 personally I have a hard time without a coloured prompt 18:35:33 ↑ 18:35:36 I just can't easily find where the output of the previous command starts/end 18:35:55 ehird, well that is nice 18:35:55 but 18:36:01 ehird: I can see the advantage of that, but I'm quite partial to my RPROMPT. 18:36:18 as I said, I need a coloured prompt to easily be able to find where the output of a command starts 18:36:31 AnMaster: stop writing gigantic gobs of commands 18:36:31 AnMaster: I've got a two-line prompt. 18:36:42 pikhq, I don't like that 18:36:49 All the info is on the first line, and the second line just has "$". 18:36:51 pikhq, I'm rather fond of gentoo's standard prompt 18:36:54 Oh, and the RPROMPT. 18:37:02 Anyway, Plan 9's rc has prompt=('% ' '') by default. 18:37:04 Which has the PWD. 18:37:10 The rc I use has prompt=('; ' ''). 18:37:11 pikhq, RPROMPT? 18:37:16 can't find it in man bash 18:37:19 ZSH feature. 18:37:20 or do you use some other shell 18:37:21 Bash-like would be prompt=('$ ' '> '). 18:37:24 pikhq, what does it do 18:37:28 AnMaster: right prompt. 18:37:30 It sticks stuff to the right of the prompt. 18:37:32 ah 18:37:35 additional prompt at right side of terminal 18:37:39 ehird, I like path in prompt 18:37:49 otherwise I forget where I am when switching between shells 18:37:50 I'm going to put the path in my terminal title. 18:37:56 ehird, could work 18:37:56 Instead of the meaningless "Terminal". 18:38:14 ; fn prompt { echo test } 18:38:14 test 18:38:15 ; true 18:38:15 test 18:38:15 ; 18:38:19 Well, this will be easy. 18:38:19 I've got: %date %user@%host %tty\n $ 18:38:24 (psuedocode) 18:38:31 ehird, I use that to store a title. to indicate what I'm doing in it. To be able to find the relevant tab quickly 18:38:54 I used: 18:38:54 like cf for cfunge, ef for efunge, mus for playing the music, or whatever 18:38:55 precmd() { print -Pn "\e]0;%n@%m:%~\a" } 18:38:55 export PS1=$(print "%{\e[33m%}")"[%n:%~] %#"$(print "%{\e[0m%}")" " 18:39:00 and yes I could use screen 18:39:04 but I don't like screen 18:39:05 which is [ehird:~] % in yellow 18:39:13 and sets the title to 18:39:19 ehird@Bournemouth:~ 18:39:23 ehird, colour is useful yeah 18:39:23 Well, the full PS1 is: 18:39:23 %{$reset_color$fg[blue]%} %B%* %D{%a %b %d} %{$reset_color$fg[red]%}%B%n@%m %{$reset_color$fg[magenta]%}%B%y %{$reset_color%} $prompt_newline %{$reset_color$fg[green]%}%B\$ %b%{$reset_color%} 18:39:28 but now I just use ; . 18:39:42 pikhq, you use tcap for finding those? 18:39:43 ;P 18:39:57 pikhq, so I guess that means you use unusual terminals 18:40:00 interesting 18:40:03 AnMaster: No, zsh does. 18:40:08 pikhq, ah 18:40:12 "autoload -U colors&&colors". 18:40:17 Voila, those are set. 18:40:54 Anyway, ~ doesn't even work in rc. 18:40:58 $home does. 18:41:09 idea (for sh-style shells, like ksh, bash, zsh and such): shell defined variables should only use all upper case. Scripts should mostly use lower case 18:41:21 I have seen collisions a few times before 18:41:26 ; fn prompt { printf '\e]0;'^`{pwd}^'\a' } 18:41:27 Tada, it works. 18:41:29 * ehird puts in .rcrc 18:41:33 bbl 18:44:17 Gah, I hate unix. 18:44:21 Esp. linux. 18:44:38 Maybe I should write a stopgap project to ehirdOS that removes sucky shit from unix. 18:44:42 Like, more than plan 9. 18:44:47 Filesystems suck, especially. 18:53:37 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 18:54:29 http://pastie.org/585120.txt?key=tigsvxhlhamicfvkgnvg 18:54:51 hm 18:55:04 synergy doesn't handle well when one of the clients suspend and later resume 18:55:10 (I didn't expect that either) 18:58:30 synergy sounds kind of shit. 18:58:43 AnMaster: do you actually want two computers or just two displays? 18:59:22 ehird, actually, I want to be able to use one keyboard/mouse for both computers when I'm at home to prevent having to work at such an awkward angle for one 18:59:31 that didn't answer my q 18:59:44 or constantly moving latop/desktop keyboard back/forth 19:00:12 ehird, then what did you mean 19:00:20 [18:58] ehird: AnMaster: do you actually want two computers or just two displays? 19:00:21 as in 19:00:30 aren't you just using your desktop as an additional screen for your notebook 19:00:32 or the other way around 19:00:36 in practice 19:01:17 ehird, hm wouldn't say so. Atm I'm mostly using my desktop + doing some configuring on my laptop 19:01:23 package update and such 19:01:39 ehird, really, it is just a way to easily be able to work with both systems at once when I'm at home 19:01:52 unless you're trying to do stuff the laptop can't handle, I'd just plug the display into the laptop 19:01:54 which I won't be most of the time 19:02:02 ehird, I am. 19:02:03 3D 19:02:08 as in 19:02:12 3D it can't handle 19:02:18 playing warzone2100 19:02:19 do laptops have a socket to use them as a display? 19:02:20 i guess not 19:02:27 ehird, use "them"? 19:02:32 the laptop's display 19:02:33 what/who is this "them" 19:02:39 like the socket on the back of a monitor 19:02:48 i know laptops have a plug like on the back of a computer 19:02:50 well I guess that would take too much space internally 19:02:50 to plug in a display 19:02:55 i don't know if they have a plug like on the back of a monitor 19:02:58 to plug in to a computer 19:02:59 guess not 19:03:01 VNC :P 19:03:03 ehird, no 19:03:05 ehird, hah 19:03:30 i can have a monitor plugged into my laptop. was that the answer for the question? just passing by... o.o* 19:03:40 ehird, well I tried vnc, but really, see the bug about vino-server crashing all the time. and also copy/paste didn't work well 19:03:46 which it *does* with synergy 19:04:18 ehird, btw this laptop has VGA and HDMI connectors 19:04:23 no DVI 19:04:30 though 19:04:38 Sneezle_: what wait where who are you 19:04:42 since my desktop's monitor is TFT with VGA only, that isn't an issue 19:04:53 VGA should be illegal 19:04:55 well also HDMI 19:05:00 displayport is nice. 19:05:01 ehird, heh 19:05:06 ehird, DVI for the win 19:05:08 i was told some minutes ago, i am a douchebag... :) 19:05:12 displayport? 19:05:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort 19:05:28 ehird, actually, DVI with a connector *without screws* would be nice 19:05:30 Apple uses it and I think Dell. 19:05:33 somewhat like the USB connector 19:05:41 It's royalty free, the connector is very small, ... 19:05:54 and it can handle just about any resolution on one link 19:05:56 wait 19:05:58 is that displayport 19:06:05 what is HDMI then 19:06:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#Supporters 19:06:26 guess you ahve displayport 19:06:27 have 19:06:28 "lenovo" 19:06:32 yeah 19:06:33 AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HDMI.socket.png 19:06:38 HDMI is shit 19:06:40 I mistook the displayport for hdmi 19:06:40 :D 19:06:42 it's like DVI + audio + pointless 19:07:04 I'd prefer everything used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort instead, though. 19:07:12 It's smaller than DisplayPort and still supports up to 2560x1600. 19:07:17 On January 13, 2009, VESA announced that Mini DisplayPort would be included in the upcoming DisplayPort 1.2 specification.[7][8] 19:07:19 Coo. 19:07:20 ehird, it might not be pointless to combine cables. Want to see the back of my desktop? 19:07:25 ehird, it is like, lots of cables 19:07:31 in a semi mess 19:07:38 there is a switch on the shelf below 19:07:45 and other stuff too 19:07:51 it is quite a mess of cables behind 19:07:52 I have three cables in my iMac; one going outwards, the other two going in. 19:07:58 Only one is needed (outwards; power). 19:07:58 and I doubt wireless monitors would work well 19:08:02 ehird, printer? 19:08:09 One I wouldn't really like to give up (Ethernet; no draft-n router atm). 19:08:16 And the last is the USB mouse that I'd be happy losing. 19:08:20 AnMaster: I don't believe in printing. 19:08:28 ehird, scanner then 19:08:28 Besides, I'd use a networked printer. 19:08:33 Ditto. 19:08:34 my printer is a multi-function one 19:08:37 (Probably a two-in-one.) 19:08:46 so printer + scanner 19:08:52 Again, networked. 19:08:57 As in, plugged into my router. 19:09:15 ehird, then you just move the cable mess from your desktop to your router 19:09:25 Yes. It would have all of one cable plugged into it. 19:09:47 Well, three; printer, ethernet (could be dropped), phone line. 19:09:47 well, what about speakers or headphones 19:09:51 Oh, and power. 19:09:52 isn't that yet another cable 19:09:54 and mic 19:10:00 I use the iMac speakers. They're okay. 19:10:09 Headphones, sure, that's one cable. 19:10:17 The built-in mic is fine for anything but recording music. 19:10:22 ehird, one cable that splits into two connectors at the end 19:10:28 unless you use builtin one yeah 19:11:00 With my laptop, it'll be, uh, zero. 19:11:10 One, if I have a headset on, I guess. (The speakers being bad.) 19:11:12 ehird, power, when charging 19:11:15 One, if I'm charging. 19:11:17 and yes headset 19:11:18 Two, if I'm headsetting and charging. 19:11:21 ehird, two for headset 19:11:29 I suppose. 19:11:34 It comes to one, though. 19:11:36 So not really additional mess. 19:11:36 ehird, headset = with mic 19:11:40 headphones = no mic 19:11:41 I know. 19:11:55 so, three if headset and charging 19:12:05 Yes, but the cable itself that clutters is only one, since they connect. 19:12:11 true 19:12:29 ehird, also, you will need ethernet during installation at least 19:12:39 Why? 19:12:46 WiFi works on the LiveCD. 19:12:53 ehird, because the driver like to oops in the version on the livecd 19:12:55 And you don't need a connection to install, anyway. 19:12:55 :P 19:12:59 that's why 19:13:18 ehird, this depends on exact model of course 19:13:35 Probably the Intel 5300 card. 19:13:37 if you have a different model of the intel wireless chipset it might work better 19:13:46 No idea how it differs from the 5100, but it costs more, so it must be better, right? :P 19:13:50 Oh, right, I looked it up. 19:13:53 More throughput. 19:14:26 what's yours 19:14:33 03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 5100 AGN [Shiloh] Network Connection 19:14:48 not sure what the AGN means 19:15:09 sv:agn = the thing you put on the hook to catch fish. IIRC 19:15:12 200 better, ha. 19:15:15 or was it the hook itself? 19:15:17 whatever 19:15:27 Fishing rod, you mean. 19:15:28 Or... hook. 19:15:30 ehird, nah 19:15:35 oh. 19:15:37 bait 19:16:08 ehird, well yes, but except for fishing en:bait is sv:lockbete 19:16:16 ...so what's agn. 19:16:52 oh I see 19:16:58 it is only if the bait is live 19:17:06 as in, worm or fly or such 19:17:11 says Swedish wikipedia 19:17:28 but not for the shiny things you use sometimes 19:17:32 ehird, ^ 19:17:42 i will never understand fishing 19:17:47 ehird, nor me 19:18:42 ehird, I think agn is mostly for when you just sit still and have the fishing rod still, waiting for something to find it. Not like when you throw the hook away and wind it in with a handle 19:18:49 but I'm no expert on that 19:18:50 anyway 19:18:53 i want a copy of Franz Allegro Common Lisp :( 19:18:58 ehird, hm? 19:19:00 It's shiny. 19:19:13 ehird, oh? 19:19:13 AnMaster: one of the big commercial common lisp implementations along with lispworks 19:19:16 pricing is like $5,000 19:19:17 ah found what AGN must be 19:19:20 but it's so shiny 19:19:23 must be it supports A G and N standard 19:19:25 it comes with a graph database 19:19:26 standards* 19:19:30 enterprise-quality 19:19:30 wait that can't be right 19:19:33 it supports B too 19:19:34 really scalabl 19:19:34 e 19:19:36 huh 19:19:39 and you can query it with a prolog dialect 19:19:49 (a lisp-based prolog dialect) 19:19:52 and all sorts of stuff 19:20:27 and stuff! 19:28:06 ; ssh brnmth 19:28:07 ehird@brnmth's password: 19:28:07 Last login: Sat Aug 15 19:27:43 2009 from bournemouth 19:28:07 ehird@brnmth:~$ 19:28:09 brnmth is a vm :) 19:30:55 ehird, so what is your naming scheme for computers then 19:31:06 I recently decided on one myself 19:31:16 I only have one, Bournemouth; that was named after the computer in Look Around You, series two. 19:31:26 Previously it was Deep-Thought, but that was oh-so-cliche. 19:31:31 Also this computer isn't even very fast. :P 19:31:38 The laptop, no idea. 19:31:42 Maybe unicorn. Or bunny. Or kitten. 19:31:49 It's small and fluffy*, you see. 19:31:52 *not actually fluffy 19:32:02 Also unicorns are so small and fluffy shut up. 19:32:24 ehird, what does host claim 19:32:26 err 19:32:27 hostname 19:32:32 Bournemouth. 19:32:35 # hostname 19:32:35 tux.lan 19:32:40 ; hostname 19:32:40 Bournemouth 19:32:46 ah 19:32:54 I misread above 19:32:58 right 19:33:02 The VM is brnmth because it's all unixy and codeular (i.e. linux not os x) and contained as a VM within Bournemouth. 19:33:05 ehird, I decided for mythical creatures 19:33:06 well 19:33:08 for new ones 19:33:15 not for tux, since it already exists 19:33:18 the computer that is 19:33:42 I already have phoenix (the pentium 3), so laptop ended up as "dragon" 19:33:48 and from there it was easy to decide 19:34:06 Maybe I should use words that sound like curses but aren't. 19:34:07 however, none will be called "kraken", since sv:kraken = en:weakling 19:34:16 -!- GrayGnome` has left (?). 19:34:41 shihtzu. shittah. cockchafer. bitch (ok, arguable). titular. 19:34:49 admittedly I stole half of them from the hilarious http://www.yankeepotroast.org/archives/2008/09/11_words_that_s.html 19:34:51 ehird, like clr, or smcup? 19:34:53 ~ 19:34:58 >.< 19:38:14 Starting Nmap 4.76 ( http://nmap.org ) at 2009-08-15 20:38 CEST 19:38:14 SCRIPT ENGINE: '/usr/share/nmap/scripts/skype_v2-version.nse' threw a run time error and could not be loaded. 19:38:14 SCRIPT ENGINE: '/usr/share/nmap/scripts/iax2Detect.nse' threw a run time error and could not be loaded. 19:38:14 SCRIPT ENGINE: '/usr/share/nmap/scripts/PPTPversion.nse' threw a run time error and could not be loaded. 19:38:15 odd 19:38:17 ubuntu 19:39:06 happens when I try using -sV to detect what is running on the port 19:39:53 * ehird splutters: Google to Launch a New Version of Google Search 19:39:54 oh 19:39:56 the UI is the same 19:39:59 just redesigned the infrastructure 19:40:05 I only use Google for the UI :P 19:40:09 ( http://mashable.com/2009/08/10/google-new-version/ ) 19:44:25 ehird: Google is not run by idiots. 19:44:29 synergy does have some strange effects on the keyboard of the client btw 19:44:42 pikhq: tbh there are things i'd tweak about the ui, mostly whitespace things 19:44:50 "New version" means that they finished up Google FS 2.0, not that they're adding a bunch of crap to the UI. 19:44:52 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:44:53 but not now 19:44:58 and i would get rid of the i'm feeling lucky, if i were designing it originally 19:45:08 but changing anything now would just destroy it all 19:45:14 while synergy is running, and active on that display, typing on keyboard works, but holding the key pressed down to repeat doesn't 19:45:16 I swear google looked better in 2003, htough 19:45:17 ehird, ^ 19:45:18 with the nice blue tabs 19:45:21 not that this is an issue to me 19:45:23 AnMaster: heh 19:45:27 They've done UI studies on removing I'm Feeling Lucky. 19:45:28 just find it slightly ODD 19:45:30 I mean 19:45:31 that would kill me 19:45:34 WHY 19:45:34 pikhq: I know 19:45:39 does it have to disable keyboard repeat 19:45:42 Okay, then. 19:45:43 that is just so strange 19:45:56 AnMaster: ... Disable keyboard repeat? 19:45:57 pikhq: but if google was originally being designed, i'm feeling lucky could be omitted 19:45:57 That's retarded. 19:45:59 it's good PR 19:46:05 it makes people think google is fluffy and cute 19:46:07 ehird: Sure. 19:46:07 but it isn't good UI 19:46:31 pikhq, only on the client (not the keyboard that controls synergy), and only while the control is on that screen 19:46:33 But it doesn't matter that much, because for the *most* part, Google has a good UI. 19:46:36 if you see what I mean 19:46:46 yeah, the UI is fine 19:46:55 though my ideal google UI would just be a text box. 19:46:58 -!- Sneezle_ has left (?). 19:47:02 ...well, it is 19:47:04 I use my toolbar 19:47:20 Nice and simple. "Put in text, you get results. Nothing else." 19:47:35 pikhq, so if I just my desktop as the server (the controller), then if I move the mouse onto the laptop screen, typing on the laptop keyboard has no key repeat, typing on desktop keyboard works as usual 19:47:35 and 19:47:45 AnMaster: Weird. 19:47:48 if I have the focus on the desktop instead 19:47:55 then keyrepeat works on laptop keyboard 19:48:02 google has some discoverability problems 19:48:08 pikhq, yeah, my point 19:48:16 I mean, even I don't know most of the special syntaxes 19:48:22 it isn't like you actually use the laptop keyboard when server has control over it 19:48:23 but 19:48:32 I can't see a reason to *prevent* key repeat either 19:49:45 ehird: Mmm, yeah. The advanced features are rather hidden. 19:50:00 It's not a perfect UI, but it's at least a good one. 19:50:24 Unlike so many other web sites. "Punch the monkey to navigate the site!" 19:50:37 Munch the punkey to savigate the nite. 19:50:46 "Duuuuuuuuuuude. Whoa." 19:55:00 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:55:01 pikhq, what advanced features in specific? 19:55:14 -!- Judofyr has joined. 19:55:19 "advanced search"? 19:55:22 that isn't hidden 19:55:26 "inurl:foo.bar baz", for instance. 19:55:32 Boolean operators, grouping, what pikhq said, calculator, ... 19:55:34 "site:flimble.com foo" 19:55:39 There's a LOT of things hidden inside that text field. 19:55:41 There's a lot of them. 19:55:50 pikhq: stop saying the same things as me. 19:55:59 O'Reilly has a rather long book on it, entitled "Google Hacks". 19:56:02 pikhq, two clicks from main page 19:56:10 to reach http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=136861 19:56:10 AnMaster: You, sir, are being an idiot. 19:56:11 Stop that. 19:56:17 That is not a discoverable interface. 19:56:21 Also, that's just the BASICS. 19:56:23 which has some at least 19:56:26 ehird, that is true 19:57:14 AnMaster: did you say something? Lastlog is just "about phone" and scrolling is unfun with this. 19:57:19 Did I mention that O'Reilly has a long *book* on it? 20:00:27 you did 20:00:30 i saw it 20:00:32 it was there 20:00:45 fizzie, yes, but I forgot what 20:01:44 fizzie, how long ago was it? 20:01:58 fizzie, it seems to be out of my scrolback 20:02:01 scrollback* 20:02:07 so I would need to dig in logs 20:02:22 so give me date (UTC) 20:02:25 err 20:02:27 date and time* 20:02:44 well, time only I guess 20:02:49 since date would be today 20:02:56 Sorry, no timestamps. Take up too many chars on the phone. 20:03:52 you could just grep today's log. Maybe not that important. 20:04:36 aug 15 17:47:13 fizzie, about phone 20:04:36 aug 15 17:47:18 do you have any bluetooth on it? 20:04:36 aug 15 17:47:29 and what about a computer with bluetooth? 20:04:54 Then who was phone? 20:05:25 * AnMaster slaps GregorR with a green slime 20:05:55 which means you are into BIG trouble now. And if you don't know what sort of trouble, play more nethack 20:06:02 ... while you can ;P 20:06:55 Yes, phone and iBook both have bt, that's what iSync uses. 20:07:38 fizzie, then, why not use it to use internet over, rather than use that tiny screen 20:08:14 -fizzie- VERSION bip-0.8.0 20:08:14 -fizzie- VERSION irssi v0.8.13 20:08:17 interesting 20:08:45 Ah, you mean *here*. No, didn't take the laptop. I'm on vacation. :p 20:09:03 fizzie, for how long? 20:09:42 Using irssi over ssh with specific phone-optimized formats and keys. 20:10:19 Just for tonight. Okay, so on a mini-vacation. 20:12:06 ehird, btw, do you know if ais had any problems with the Door recently? 20:12:35 no 20:12:42 he's probably busy being dead or something 20:12:57 ehird, is that no = don't know, or no = no issues 20:13:31 ehird, also, I saw him in here yesterday or so 20:13:39 so wouldn't call him "busy being dead" 20:14:29 Don't know. 20:14:44 K3 works, hooray. 20:14:48 Over ssh, with X11 forwarding. 20:15:22 http://nsl.com/k/life/life_editor.k ;; this is the code to a fast Game of Life including the full-featured editor seen at http://nsl.com/papers/life.htm 20:16:12 K is so awesome. 20:18:35 and http://nsl.com/k/life.k is less space-intensive or something 20:18:40 ehird, how does it work 20:18:43 in an abstract way 20:18:48 AnMaster: abstract array operations 20:18:59 AnMaster: every line after .t..t: is just gui stuff 20:19:01 ehird, ah, like that APL one in one line 20:19:04 or was it two 20:19:05 and also load: is just loading the pattern file and stuff 20:19:12 the whole fast life implementation is just a few lines 20:19:18 the rest is the fully-featured gui 20:19:29 what does .t..t: mean? 20:20:04 dunno, some gui stuff. 20:20:36 AnMaster: http://nsl.com/k/life.k separates the sections more 20:20:39 and is more space-efficient 20:20:46 and can read RLE .lifs 20:22:11 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/podcast021.html <-- :D 20:22:24 damn oerjan isn't here 20:28:21 AnMaster: where are virtualbox shared folders in a linux guest? 20:28:35 ehird, hm? where you mount them? 20:28:48 i've just set one up in the gui named osx mounting the host path / 20:28:49 assuming you installed guest extensions after last kernel upgrade in there 20:28:53 how do I get it as a dir in the guest 20:28:55 yes, I have those 20:28:58 ehird, oh, check docs 20:29:00 oh, wait! 20:29:03 i upgraded kernel 20:29:06 I don't remember 20:29:07 so the additions aren't starting 20:29:07 hehe 20:29:15 ehird, need to rebuild against new kernel 20:29:18 yep 20:32:02 ehird, and then: no idea about mount point 20:32:33 i love ubuntu, everything is just working 20:32:40 servers aren't meant to be this easy. 20:33:03 ubuntu is african for "i can't understand debian" 20:33:22 bsmntbombdood_: Actually, "can't install Debian". And Mark Pilgrim actually uses Ubuntu now. 20:33:45 ehird, who is Mark Pilgrim 20:33:50 name sounds familiar 20:33:52 But if by "can't understand Debian" you mean "will use something that makes things simpler than Debian when it can be done, without adverse effects that bother me", yes, I will. 20:34:01 AnMaster: Uhh, he works at Google and stuff. 20:34:07 And switched from OS X to Linux sometime? 20:34:13 AnMaster: Dive into Python. 20:34:22 oh, and dive into accessibility 20:34:24 ah 20:34:25 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 20:34:31 that one 20:35:41 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:35:53 ehird@brnmth:/$ find . -name osx 2>/dev/null 20:35:53 ehird@brnmth:/$ 20:35:54 gr 20:35:57 * ehird tries readding it 20:36:05 -!- Judofyr has joined. 20:36:16 ehird, you need to mount it inside 20:36:17 iirc 20:36:19 check docs 20:36:20 for details 20:36:46 as in, mount -t vboxfs-whatever osx /whatever 20:36:51 or something like that 20:36:52 • In a Linux guest, use the following command: 20:36:52 mount -t vboxsf [-o OPTIONS] sharename mountpoint 20:36:53 rightyho 20:36:59 I can add it to fstab, right? 20:38:03 ehird, of course. 20:38:07 well, not in that format 20:38:12 ehird@brnmth:~$ sudo mount -t vboxsf osx /osx 20:38:12 [sudo] password for ehird: 20:38:16 /sbin/mount.vboxsf: mounting failed with the error: No such file or directory 20:38:19 `_` 20:38:20 No output. 20:38:31 ehird@brnmth:~$ ls -l /sbin/mount.vboxsf 20:38:31 -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 10536 2009-08-15 20:31 /sbin/mount.vboxsf 20:38:36 It has a red background, the filename. 20:38:37 I wonder why. 20:38:52 Oh, setuid. 20:38:57 Oh, wiat. 20:38:57 wait 20:38:58 suid bin 20:39:00 I need to mkdir /osx, of course. 20:39:15 too slow phone, graa 20:39:24 fizzie: just VNC into your desktop! 20:39:32 oh brutha 20:39:38 everythign in /Users/ehird is owned by root 20:39:39 *everything 20:39:48 this is the problem with cross-OS mounts 20:39:50 no idea how to fix that 20:41:03 well, guess I could just mount it as ehird 20:41:09 since I can't modify shit that needs root on the host anyway 20:42:51 AnMaster: user=ehird right? 20:42:53 in the fstab 20:42:56 to let me mount it 20:43:14 oh, or uid=myuid and gid=mygid 20:43:29 ehird, hm? 20:43:47 ehird@brnmth:/$ sudo mount -t vboxsf -o uid=1000,gid=1000 osx /osx 20:43:52 ehird, it mangles permissions? 20:43:52 /sbin/mount.vboxsf: mounting failed with the error: Protocol error 20:43:54 not that, then 20:43:57 AnMaster: well, how can it not 20:44:03 how can it know that ehird = ehird 20:45:25 Especially useful are the options uid, gid and mode, as they allow access by 20:45:25 normal users (in read/write mode, depending on the settings) even if root has 20:45:26 mounted the filesystem. 20:45:29 Wonder why "protocol error" then. 20:45:45 oh 20:45:47 it's failing in general 20:47:38 It's an actual piece of software on both machines, it could automatically build username-based uid maps. 20:47:58 Yay it works 20:48:02 bunnies and unicorns! 20:48:13 "sudo mount -t vboxsf -o uid=1000,gid=1000 osx /osx" with /osx owned by ehird:ehird does it 20:49:05 hmm, I wonder what "pass" is 20:49:22 oh, fsck 20:50:24 oh lawd, doesn't work in fstab 20:50:48 osx /osx vboxsf uid=1000,gid=1000 0 0 20:50:50 "no such device" 20:50:54 I guess it doesn't like osx 20:50:58 but that's the device I'm mounting, isn't it? 20:52:23 pjw1965's response works fine, however when placing them in the fstab they don't work because the vboxsf is not initialized prior to the fstab being processed. I am new to linux, so how can this be solved? 20:52:24 ah. 20:52:34 rc then 20:52:49 or just init.d 20:58:29 I HATE UPDATE-RC. 20:58:29 D 21:03:24 FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK 21:03:31 I DO IT EXACTLY HOW IT SAYS AND DOES IT RUN? NOOOOOO 21:22:04 ehird, this is funny: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/podcast007.html 21:23:00 ehird, update- rc? 21:23:04 update-rc* 21:23:05 wait what 21:23:08 update-rc.d 21:23:11 oh 21:23:14 debian's uber-retarded init.d administration script 21:23:15 update-rc is a gentoo tool 21:23:20 makes me want to stab peopl 21:23:21 e 21:23:33 ehird, well, how does it work 21:23:40 annoyingly 21:23:48 is it as simple as update-rc add sshd default? 21:23:54 that is how it works on gentoo 21:23:57 well, yes, if you want the defaults 21:23:57 where default = a run level 21:24:03 update-rc.d start sshd defaults 21:24:09 or sth 21:24:09 ehird, ah no, on gentoo default is the default multi user run level 21:24:11 actually drop the start 21:24:20 gentoo doesn't use 3, 4, 5 and so on 21:24:23 but named run levels 21:25:33 Sure, but Gentoo uses init as nothing more than a wrapper for /sbin/rc. 21:28:08 That is to say, they are using SysV init as a way of doing BSD init. 21:28:33 (almost) 21:29:11 arch's bsd init is a godsend 21:29:11 so simple 21:33:58 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:37:04 Gah, what sort of freaky lynx have they installed at work; "this client does not support HTTPS urls". 21:37:26 One that's not linked against an SSL lib, presumably :P 21:38:08 Yes, but whyyy. 21:38:13 -!- coppro has joined. 21:39:06 links did https, but I don't know how to tell it to auto-linewrap a text/plain file. 21:55:49 \l gbox 21:55:50 rule:|(8#2)_vs 21:55:50 sheet:{[r;s]{r[2_sv 3#x _0,s,0]}'!#s} 21:55:50 cyl:{[r;s]{r[2_sv 3#x _(*-1#s),s,*s]}'!#s} 21:55:50 w:gbox 200 cyl[rule 90]\200#1 0 1 21:55:50 w..c:`plot 21:55:52 `show$`w; 21:55:53 No output. 21:56:01 ↑ A graphical implementation of the Wolfram automata in K. 21:56:15 Rule 90; changing "90" will change, well, the rule. 21:56:43 Single dependency: 21:56:44 gbox:{(,/(7#,,:'&2){x,,y}/:(0 0 1 1 0;0 1 1 0 0)+/:,/(!#x),/:'&:'x),,,:'-1+^x} 21:56:44 vbox:{(,/(7 2#,!0){x,,y}/:(0 0 1 1 0;0 1 1 0 0)+/:+y _vs x),,,:'2#|/y} 21:56:44 \ 21:56:44 p:gbox m:100 100_draw 2 21:56:44 v:vbox[&,/m;^m] 21:56:45 v..c:p..c:`plot 21:56:47 `show$'`p`v; 21:56:48 No output. 21:56:49 "gbox.k" 22:00:42 ehird: Btw, why K instead of J 22:01:25 I like J for mathematical stuff; K has an awesome functional reactive programming gui thing and olegfink evangelised it a bit 22:01:57 basically j's a mathematical vectory thingy, k's a general purpose lang with some awesome stuff that happens to be array based 22:02:15 Deewiant: unfortunately there's no k3 for os x, so I have an unholy ssh-into-virtualbox-with-X-forwarding linux setup 22:02:40 heh 22:03:04 with a clever thing that cds to /osx/(host pwd) 22:04:10 Isn't there a k4 these days 22:06:37 Deewiant: yes. it lacks the gui library and has morphed with some sort of Q language which is like some sort of english thingy skin over K4 whothefuckknows 22:06:48 :-D 22:07:23 so me/olegfink/other-guy-person are using the 2005 k3 :P 22:12:15 * ehird attempts to disable ssh encryption 22:12:18 no point wasting cycles 22:20:53 eh i'll just use telnet 22:43:21 -!- jix has joined. 22:50:43 -!- Sneezle_ has joined. 23:01:07 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("mi co'a sipna"). 23:04:20 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 23:12:33 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:17:02 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:23:06 -!- ehird has quit. 23:25:19 -!- ehird has joined. 23:32:36 -!- Judofyr_ has changed nick to Judofyr. 23:41:55 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:47:23 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:52:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:56:58 -!- Sgeo has joined.