00:13:07 -!- calamari has joined. 00:32:10 -!- Asztal has joined. 00:35:15 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:02:12 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:12:49 -!- Dewi has joined. 01:19:17 -!- olsner_ has changed nick to olsner. 01:37:37 -!- GregorR has joined. 01:38:35 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 01:51:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:52:32 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:18:22 Hey... oerjan is mentioned in the Haskell 98 Report. 02:18:35 "In addition, dozens of other people made helpful contributions, some small but many substantial. They are as follows: […] Orjan Johansen […]" 02:21:20 :D 02:21:31 Admittedly, it's in a list that has, at a glance, more than 100 items. 02:33:22 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:33:26 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:40:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:48:35 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 02:49:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:58:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:58:40 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 03:03:04 eizo displays are shiny 03:03:07 shiny shiny 03:07:38 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:08:29 -!- coppro has joined. 03:19:02 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:31:16 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:41:53 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:47:28 -!- coppro has joined. 04:15:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:16:21 Hey... oerjan is mentioned in the Haskell 98 Report. <-- i sent in some error corrections 04:19:33 oerjan: So, you've been doing Haskell for quite a while. 04:19:56 that was back in 2001/2002 or so, when i was first learning it 04:20:01 Mmm. 04:22:02 which kind of disproves xkcd today. There is more to being a geek that just that flowchart ;) 04:22:29 my thought about that was that a lot is hidden under the knowledge needed to understand that something _is_ related 04:23:22 *that xkcd 04:46:04 oerjan: so not 1998 or before thenw 04:46:09 which would have been even more awesome 04:47:06 probably 04:47:17 *then 04:50:52 can someone explain to me why people like CRTs so much for professional work 04:50:57 aren't they inherently blurry 04:51:40 their radiation gives such a nice skin color 04:51:41 hmm, aperture grill crts look less shit than most i've seen 04:51:45 at least from my lcd :-P 04:51:55 *grille 04:52:11 *gorilla 04:55:56 -!- kwertii has joined. 05:17:53 hi kwertii 05:18:04 hi ehird. how's it going? 05:18:09 pretty goingly 05:18:58 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:19:19 I wonder if we have OLED visors yet 05:19:24 must... become... cyborg... 05:20:31 lol, i think my ideal wearable computer rig would have three cameras 05:20:42 in front, in back, and mounted on the goggles/visor 05:20:46 pointing at your eyes 05:20:56 (for scrolling, naturally) 05:21:16 Sgeo: Body Area Network exists 05:21:22 Sgeo: http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/15/wearable-ecg-uses-patients-posture-for-encryption-transmits-da/ 05:21:26 lol kurzweil 05:21:52 Huh. 05:21:57 lawl 05:22:13 It's not exactly commonplace, is it? 05:22:29 nope 05:22:42 anyway who wants a body area network when you can have a bluetoothin', wifin', 3gin' wearable computer. 05:22:50 It should not be a pain to open links 05:23:10 Sgeo: context? 05:23:40 ehird, it's painful for me to open links I see on IRC. Firefox is so slow. Slow to start up, and slow to open new tabs 05:23:51 Sgeo: try epiphany-webkit 05:23:59 I'm on Windows 05:24:06 try ubuntu. 05:24:15 Not when I feel like playing games 05:24:19 use opera or sth 05:24:23 Which I felt like when I turned my computer on today 05:24:24 sth? 05:24:27 sth=something 05:24:31 also, VM, bitch 05:24:32 Oh 05:24:38 3d virtualisation in your face 05:25:01 Can I get my current Windows stuff in a VM? 05:25:10 Eh? 05:25:35 Sgeo: ? 05:25:36 My current Windows install. Can I easily run it in a VM? 05:25:49 Uhh, you could mount the partition in the VM, I guess. 05:26:00 VMWare can do it, says googling. 05:26:04 let's see if virtualbox can 05:26:11 But with some reading you may be able to manage this. Just be very careful. One wrong move and you can trash the OS. 05:26:12 Put this in Goggle.com raw access site:forums.virtualbox.org 05:26:12 Also section 9.10. Using a raw host hard disk from a guest (read the warnings) 05:26:16 (goggle.com lol) 05:26:17 Sgeo: Yes, you can. 05:26:23 "I used the 'sudo VBoxManage internalcommands createrawvmdk -filename -rawdisk /dev/sda2 -register' command" 05:26:26 Easy. 05:26:52 Sgeo: So install VirtualBox in Ubuntu, run one command, add a new VM and choose the created file as the disk. 05:26:53 Voila. 05:27:10 I'll look into it 05:27:17 Sgeo: It's one command 05:27:26 I'm going to sleep soonish 05:27:33 sudo VBoxManage internalcommands createrawvmdk -filename -rawdisk /dev/ -register 05:27:37 And trying to install Zune 05:27:43 and then is a vbox disk file 05:27:46 Sgeo: umm why 05:28:23 ehird, so I can watch season 3 of The Guild sooner, hopefully 05:28:36 Yo, piracy. 05:28:38 It's hot. 05:28:40 or sth 05:29:02 I'll wait if it's not free on the Zune marketplace 05:29:14 no, it's cold, because it helps agains global warming. 05:29:31 (RAmen) 05:29:42 oerjan: Tru dat 05:31:33 "Windows needs to restart to complete the installation" 05:31:39 *facepalm* 05:31:48 How is that surprising 05:31:56 * Sgeo tries without restarting 05:33:30 Seems to be working 05:34:47 Ok, apparently I can download season 1, but I don't see season 2 05:46:12 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 05:49:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 05:54:40 G'night all 05:56:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:03:41 -!- oklokok has joined. 06:03:46 hi oklokok 06:05:28 -!- kwertii has quit. 06:06:21 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 06:29:58 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 06:32:21 the internet is way too intwined 06:33:39 tubes 06:33:41 i need mor 06:35:25 bsmntbombdood_: to intertwine? 06:35:39 need more bandwidth 06:36:05 bsmntbombdood_: buy a magic 06:36:13 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Ich muss nach die Schule fahren"). 06:37:29 bsmntbombdood_: pay someone to mail you disks with your downloads on 06:37:34 huge latency, massive bandwith 06:37:37 i might have to 06:37:39 *bandwidth 06:37:44 bsmntbombdood_: i volunteer 06:38:05 i have an 8mbit connection that runs at ~6.5mbit, it isn't too good :P 06:38:14 800kiB/s max in practice, more often 500-600kiB/s 06:38:18 ugh 06:38:23 i get 100 on a good day 06:38:25 and 30 up 06:39:02 i get that up 06:39:05 my upload is shit 06:39:08 but my dl is okay 06:39:29 useless for torrenting 06:39:43 i wanna get me some $15/mo usenet. 06:40:00 march next year we get ADSL2+, I think, anyway; so I should be able to get 3072kiB/s 06:40:03 max 06:40:12 i think the upload isn't too bad either 06:40:25 i've got to figure out how to get a better connection 06:40:32 bsmntbombdood_: where do you live 06:40:38 colraod 06:40:39 erm 06:40:41 colorado 06:41:02 does the whole state have terrible interwebs or sth 06:41:34 bsmntbombdood_: anyway, my suggestion: there's a fibre-optic provider in norway that don't charge you $400 if you dig your own cables 06:41:39 see if there's anything similar in your state 06:41:53 right 06:41:59 bsmntbombdood_: failing that, rent the cheapest and nearest possible space you can that you can get an okay internet connection to 06:42:07 and get wiring 06:42:21 or wifi... 06:42:22 *doesn't, not don't 06:42:28 bsmntbombdood_: in wifi range? 06:42:34 um 06:42:36 satellite dish 06:42:38 bsmntbombdood_: your internet providers are fickle :P 06:42:42 i meant, 06:42:53 bsmntbombdood_: that won't be fast 06:42:54 at all 06:43:04 uh, yes it would 06:43:13 would it? 06:43:24 bsmntbombdood_: wifi draft-n, i assume 06:43:33 no 06:43:40 bsmntbombdood_: uhh, it's a lot lot faster than g 06:43:48 and a lot of modern routers have it 06:43:53 inc. most wifi chips 06:43:55 and g is a lot faster than any internet connection in the united states 06:44:02 bsmntbombdood_: yes, *at short range* 06:44:44 how many hard drives can you fit in a 1u server? 06:44:50 bsmntbombdood_: like, 2 06:44:55 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 06:44:57 they're basically flat. 06:45:12 bsmntbombdood_: anyway, all you'd need is 06:45:30 (a) cheapest and nearest possible space that you can get decent interwebs to 06:45:36 (b) a router 06:45:41 (c) mad scientist DIY skills 06:45:49 (d) a satellite dish 06:46:00 maybe just move based on where i can get bandwidth 06:46:04 well, two satellite dishes 06:46:12 basement of datacenter will do fine 06:46:18 bsmntbombdood_: that's a lot less fun :P 06:46:32 this would actually be practical, assuming you have the money to blow on the rent 06:47:34 bsmntbombdood_: well 06:47:39 and if such satellitery is legal 06:49:38 bsmntbombdood_: you should totally do it 06:49:52 no 06:49:57 bsmntbombdood_: why not 06:50:01 i've got a couple of directv dishes 06:50:10 might just try to find someone's fast wifi 06:50:36 bsmntbombdood_: look up how much it'd cost a month to get the netted storage space 06:51:27 no 06:51:31 you suck 06:51:43 only penis 06:51:58 suck some rented storage space instead 06:53:41 mebbe move to norway 06:53:46 they sound fun 06:53:51 and have hella bandwidth 06:53:52 bsmntbombdood_: sweden 06:53:59 they have the same net, well, maybe 50mbit instead of 100mbit 06:54:01 and also pirate party 06:54:10 albeit less oerjan 06:57:38 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 06:59:40 hey 06:59:41 -!- calamari has joined. 06:59:44 -!- kwertii has joined. 06:59:47 the ipod touch first generation can boot freebsd 06:59:50 * ehird eyes his iphone 07:00:00 i wish to torture you with fun operating systems. 07:00:10 lawl 07:00:38 Issue: It'd probably involve, like, typing, on that fucking touchscreen. 07:00:56 Solution: Wearable computing, again! Have they made those OLED visors yet? 07:03:46 It's annoying that I could perfectly well build all the elements of my perfect werable computing rig - ARM computer, head-mounted camera, back-of-head-mounted camera, (single-spec) goggles with mounted fast-but-low-quality pointing at my eye camera (for glance-scrolling and double-blink choosing), and some things near my hands for mousing and keyboarding... 07:03:47 ...but... 07:04:01 the only screen I could have would be opaque and not part of the goggles. 07:04:22 Irritating to the max, though otoh, if I have to look at the display separately, that makes eye-tracking less error-prone. 07:11:33 * coppro just discovered his editor has PGN syntax highlighting 07:11:51 Piggen. 07:11:53 Empiggen. 07:11:54 Embiggen. 07:11:57 Your editor is cromulent. 07:12:20 * coppro is disturbed by that insight into ehird's thought processes. 07:12:22 pgn? 07:12:47 coppro: I have overly-sensitive pattern recognition facilities, especially phonetically. 07:13:14 I also have a fondness for many small changes resulting in huge long-term changes. 07:13:15 bsmntbombdood_: chess notation 07:13:19 They are like FREEDOM! 07:13:33 ehird: sure, I read it as pigeon. Still, getting from PGN to Simpsons is... well, it's something /I'd/ do 07:13:39 xD 07:13:54 coppro: when do you think the others will realise that i'm just sshing in and ircing as coppro 07:14:10 i mean really 07:14:13 look at your name 07:14:18 it's the kind of joke i'd make! 07:14:24 also I am you in agora. and real life. 07:14:30 i have two bodies. maybe more 07:14:35 hard to keep track, you know how it is with bodies 07:14:41 h2g2 07:14:43 douglas adams 07:14:45 dna 07:14:47 rna 07:14:52 root normal agglutination 07:14:56 jargon 07:14:59 jargon file 07:15:02 eric s raymond 07:15:10 coprophilia 07:15:12 coppro 07:15:24 (h2g2 from "you know how it is with bodies") 07:15:30 sorry, was away from keyboard 07:16:18 ehird: my name isn't a joke 07:16:26 well, isn't /intended/ to be one 07:16:32 yes, you'd say that to further the illusion of you not being me 07:16:43 I am prone to these antics, and outright revealing it is very silly to do if you want to keep up the ruse 07:16:47 and thus people won't believe I am you 07:16:52 We're all Ertai [/injoke] 07:16:53 thus, indeed, keeping up the ruse 07:18:00 ehird: If I'm you, why do you need to convince me of that? 07:18:05 oughtn't I know? 07:18:21 I don't. I'm carrying out this conversation so, as per the above lines, people keep believing the ruse. 07:18:23 It's part of the fun. 07:18:30 I know what you're going to say next, btw. 07:18:35 Because I'll type it. But perhaps... not just now... 07:19:30 Although it's getting boring waiting. Time to say it. 07:19:57 Innit, coppro? 07:21:01 Of course, by constantly amending my intentionally false predictions, I further the illusion of being distinct from coppro. 07:21:08 this is like having an argument with myself... crap, that really doesn't sound right. 07:21:38 coppro: Exactly like, in fact. 07:21:46 my point exactgly 07:21:52 Exactgly. 07:21:53 so, want to scam Agora? 07:21:56 That was an actual typo of mine. 07:22:05 coppro: Sure, sockpuppet. 07:22:16 precisely the scam I was thinking of 07:22:26 Phill would be proud. 07:22:40 Phill? 07:22:45 Get off my lawn. 07:22:53 coppro: something that earned me some months in chokey. 07:23:02 I reg'd an alternate email, sent off a registration 07:23:06 tick tock, 7 days - you know all this, btw - 07:23:08 it ratified 07:23:13 BAZAM! 07:23:19 my incorrect claim to identity was...? 07:23:25 Correct? Incorrect? I merged with Phill? 07:23:28 I created a distinct entity? 07:23:28 oh dear 07:23:39 - I forget the exact result, but it was mundane and full of punishment and rage. 07:23:48 :( 07:24:20 coppro: Well, I did try and do an alt to circumvent something or other, or as an experiment, beforehand, and got summarily slapped on the wrist with a warning from Goethe, so it's not like I didn't know what'd happen. 07:24:24 INTERESTING NOTE: You could say that me and coppro are, in fact, different people: not separate physical bodies, but personas; mentally distinct consciousnesses. 07:45:09 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:58:10 -!- calamari has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:26 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:15:34 -!- M0ny has joined. 08:15:53 -!- MizardX- has joined. 08:16:44 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:16:45 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 08:18:38 plop 08:23:24 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 08:45:56 -!- kwertii has quit ("bye"). 08:47:33 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 09:32:27 -!- Pthing has joined. 09:36:11 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:37:03 -!- coppro has joined. 10:23:15 comex: ping. 10:55:46 -!- M0ny has quit. 11:28:01 -!- ehird_ has joined. 11:30:24 -!- ehird_ has quit (Client Quit). 11:30:33 hi 11:30:39 -!- ehird_ has joined. 11:30:56 yoyoyoyoyo 11:31:13 ehird_, ? 11:31:22 yo 11:31:23 what are you doing? 11:31:30 yo? 11:31:47 -!- ehird has quit (Nick collision from services.). 11:31:48 -!- ehird_ has changed nick to ehird. 11:32:08 ehird, oh thought you were testing a new client or such. 11:32:16 Nah, the power cut. 11:32:19 Then I updated Colloquy. 11:32:34 — good thing my disk wasn't being written to when it cut, eh. 11:34:12 ehird, UPS? 11:34:27 waste of money. and they buzz. 11:34:28 (pronounced as "yo-pe-ess" ;) 11:34:38 (note: not a waste of money - for datacenters) 11:34:40 ehird, they do? Why? 11:34:45 AnMaster: some electronics stuff 11:34:53 don't know the exact reason 11:35:41 * ehird wonders why all computer cases are ugly 11:35:46 ehird, btw you saw what I said a few days ago about sun + screen right? 11:35:49 if not check logs 11:35:56 with the exception of... the mac pro. oh, and the antec p182 11:36:03 AnMaster: ehh, how many days 11:36:04 -!- ehird has left (?). 11:36:08 -!- ehird has joined. 11:36:08 -!- ehird has left (?). 11:36:10 ehird, well ... 11:36:13 -!- ehird has joined. 11:36:14 ehird, well ... 11:36:16 balls 11:36:18 i need to stop hitting cmd-w 11:36:41 -1 to -3 days 11:36:47 I think 11:36:56 so could be the weekend earliest 11:37:03 ehh can't you just tell me yo 11:37:19 02:23:13 ehird: I tried outside in direct sunlight today. Hard to read, but still not impossible if at brightest setting. Impossible to read at 70% brightness in direct sunlight 11:37:19 02:23:37 also depends on exact viewing angle it seems 11:37:20 that? 11:37:22 I responded to that 11:37:25 didn't I 11:37:25 oh right 11:37:27 maybe not 11:37:30 maybe you did 11:37:32 I definitely read it 11:37:35 ok 11:37:50 ehird, anyway I hope that answers all the questions you had? 11:38:09 ehird, oh and any idea of a program for linux to measure your typing speed 11:38:21 sec 11:38:24 I'm interested in both average and max (that is burst) 11:38:33 there's a good online one that shows you a random text snippet as you start 11:38:36 so you can't memorise it 11:38:42 although you might want to test typing 11:38:43 not copying 11:39:18 but speaking of laptop displays 11:39:19 ehird, well that would be much slower, since atm I know 1-2 words in advance what I will type and can move my hands in the right position 11:39:19 "In other^2 news, I have discovered a means whereby ordinary laptop screens may be viewed legibly in very bright sunlight. The experimental prototype is 80% complete, and will hopefully stop eating my attention and desk space in the very near future." 11:39:22 — loper os guy 11:39:29 albeit from june last year 11:39:38 loper os? 11:39:45 yet another insane one? 11:39:52 Lisp machine, filesystem-abolishing, metacircular, type thing revival. 11:40:00 "insane" is misleading; the current systems are insane. 11:40:04 ehird, also what was the secret? 11:40:09 The secret? 11:40:20 ehird, the "means" he mentioned 11:40:24 what was it 11:40:31 All I know is what I pasted. I have asked him 11:40:32 some filter? 11:40:34 hm 11:40:35 ok 11:40:45 ehird, lisp laptop? 11:41:03 sounds like a fun idea 11:41:07 Do you derive pleasure from mashing random words you hear together and calling them concepts? I get that feeling from you 11:41:21 ehird, um... no? 11:41:28 ehird, I didn't mean it as a concept 11:41:30 You do it very often if you don't enjoy it then 11:41:38 AnMaster: so you mean lisp laptop as a non-concept 11:41:40 but I just wanted a lisp machine in a laptop 11:41:46 and then remarked on it being a fun idea, despite not being a concept 11:41:51 uhhhhhhhh huh 11:42:13 ehird, fun idea to build, if I knew how 11:42:20 AnMaster: It exists. 11:42:22 Do you have a laptop? 11:42:31 Quick, wipe it. Install 64-bit linux. 11:42:32 Install snap4. 11:42:34 Pirate OpenGenera. 11:42:36 ehird, hah hah 11:42:36 Bazam. 11:42:59 ehird, so... did you get opengenera working 11:43:03 with the old ubunut 11:43:05 ubuntu* 11:43:07 I could easily if I wanted, but I'm lazy. 11:43:23 ehird, no luck with the new ubuntu I assume? 11:43:30 Not even worth trying. 11:43:36 mhm :/ 11:43:36 OG is 90s software; it needs nothing more. 11:43:58 ehird, source code for snap4 and patch it somehow to work with new X? 11:44:01 AnMaster: The least painful way, of course, is buying a DEC Alpha workstation. 11:44:05 Also, why even bother? 11:44:06 ehird, :D 11:44:07 It works with old X. 11:44:23 ehird, bitrot, in a few years getting that old X to work will be quite a pain 11:44:33 Doubtful. XFree86 still works. 11:44:46 really?! 11:44:59 Uhh, yeah. It's also still maintained, officially. 11:45:01 blergh no alias for interrobang on laptop 11:45:09 Least release uh, 2008-12. 11:45:13 ehird, heh 11:45:22 I think one of the BSDs uses it. 11:45:24 NetBSD 11:45:24 ? 11:45:42 maybe I should set up a vm with netbsd 11:45:48 it is the only bsd I haven't tried 11:45:55 AnMaster: You've tried DragonflyBSD? 11:46:03 *DragonFly BSD 11:46:13 AnMaster: It has freezable processes! 11:46:17 ehird, s/only bsd/only "classical" bsd/ 11:46:27 And AWESOME jails. 11:46:29 which means Free/Net/Open 11:46:38 AnMaster: Dude, 4.3BSD, man. 11:46:40 ehird, how do they differ from freebsd jails? 11:46:48 They're more sandboxy 11:46:49 ehird, well yes, I tried that too 11:46:52 a few years ago 11:46:57 It still runs? 11:47:05 Since October 10, 2006 PC-BSD has been supported by the enterprise-class hardware solution provider iXsystems.[1] In November 2007, iXsystems entered into a distribution agreement with Fry's Electronics whereby Fry's Electronics stores nationwide carry boxed copies of PC-BSD version 1.4 (Da Vinci Edition).[2] In January 2008, iXsystems entered into a similar agreement with Micro Center.[3] 11:47:08 Huh. 11:47:09 ehird, well it did under qemu a few years ago 11:47:34 ehird, iirc vmware and 4.3BSD had a hate-hate relationship though 11:47:40 *4.4BSD; not 4.3 11:48:07 ehird, hm... nop, was 4.3 I tried I think. Not completely sure though 11:48:11 since it was a few years ago 11:48:15 I didn't mean your line 11:48:20 I just realised that 4.3 isn't the latest 11:48:26 well true 11:48:34 AnMaster: Incidentally, I learned today that FreeBSD runs on the iPhone. 11:48:45 Now if only it had a keyboard. 11:48:54 actually was probably 4.4 11:49:01 since it seems 4.3 wasn't for x86 11:49:13 or wait... 11:49:58 yeah indeed 11:50:05 so must have been 4.4 I guess 11:50:07 Oh, I also told bsmntbombdood_ to rent out some cheap space near him that can get alright internet access and use the two satellite dishes he has to beam 'er up to his impoverished-internet home via WiFi. 11:50:17 Which is of highly questionable legality; practicality. 11:50:49 ehird, err I didn't follow that quite... 11:50:57 bsmntbombdood_'s home can only get shitty internet. 11:50:59 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:51:05 ehird, latency is high with sat though 11:51:16 It would be possible to rent out some space near his home that has good internet. 11:51:19 (because of a better location) 11:51:24 He has two sat dishes lying around 11:51:43 ehird, you mean like a few hundred meters or so would make a big difference for internet quality? 11:51:44 Hack up wifi router to use that dish to send, and DIY himself a receiver at his home... 11:51:47 Voila! 11:51:56 AnMaster: Nope; I mean miles. :P 11:52:04 ehird, oh I see. just the *dishes*, with no sat involved 11:52:08 yeah not very legal 11:52:09 I bet 11:52:19 Illegal and *awesome*. 11:52:25 IMMA CHARGIN MAH WIFI 11:52:30 IMMA FIRIN MAH WIFI 11:52:32 SHOOP DA WHOOP 11:52:43 ehird, um it isn't a laser 11:52:49 Did I say laser? 11:53:08 well no, but that was the only way those references made sense to me 11:53:18 Then you're stupid. :p 11:53:45 ehird, it went like dish -> dish shape with the laser thingy of the death star in Star Wars -> laser 11:53:46 ;P 11:54:06 ehird, anyway, what frequency do they use? 11:54:18 They're DirecTV dishes. 11:54:34 oh and with very good *directional* antennas I think you could actually do it legally. Maybe 11:54:46 without going above allowed tx power 11:54:47 How much would that cost? 11:54:53 We're already talking a bunch for the rent 11:54:55 plus internet 11:55:06 ehird, well... a very very very good cantenna? 11:55:24 The idea is to keep it plausible. :P 11:55:30 (given reasonably large budget) 11:55:53 AnMaster: I wonder if it'd be possible to run ethernet cables instead. 11:55:58 ehird, well, I heard of wifi across a km 11:56:10 We're doing WiFi, that's a given. 11:56:24 with one directional antenna at computer, and a normal access point 11:56:41 so directional antennas at both end would probably manage a bit further than that 11:56:45 I wonder how much a few miles of ethernet cable cost. 11:57:00 Total distance between an Ethernet Transmitter and Receiver at the absolute end points of the network (maximum diameter from origin to final destination, if the wires were stretched out to form a straight line): 100 Meters (328 ft., 109 yds., or about the length of a football field). This limitation results from the timing of the Ethernet signals on the cable and not necessarily the cable characteristics, and is, therefore, a "hard" number. 11:57:01 ehird, um. won't work, isn't max length like 100 meters 11:57:06 AnMaster: just have routers 11:57:09 every 100 meters 11:57:15 ehird, power for them? 11:57:21 ehird, oh and why not fiber? 11:57:25 AnMaster: run a really long power cbale 11:57:26 cable 11:57:28 also, sure, fiber 11:57:55 ehird, fiber will manage quite far with no repeaters 11:57:57 AnMaster: but where would you put it 11:58:02 you can't put them underground, that's illegal 11:58:09 and you can't prop up masts 11:58:13 ehird, where would you put the ethernet cable then? 11:58:17 no fuckin' idae 11:58:18 idea 11:58:22 right 11:58:29 then we are back at good directional antennas 11:58:41 which I think could actually work, assuming a free line of sight 11:58:47 AnMaster: that's implausible 11:58:54 we're not talking about the middle of nowhere here 11:58:58 ehird, oh? 11:59:03 but why bad internet then 11:59:07 I mean, if it is in a city... 11:59:15 AnMaster: ... 11:59:19 oh right 11:59:21 US... 11:59:21 Even if where bsmntbombdood_ lives is isolated, 11:59:26 The place where the good internet is, 11:59:28 Would not be isolated, 11:59:29 And thus, 11:59:31 We have to cross, 11:59:33 Urban places, 11:59:35 ehird, yeah I see the issue... 11:59:35 Even if bsmntbombdood_ has bad internet, 11:59:38 In his non-urban place. 11:59:42 ehird, well you want to fry those urban places? 11:59:49 Who gives a fuck about urban places! 11:59:52 which is what the alternative to free line of sight would be 11:59:56 yay, i debugged my haskell program for hours because it inferred the return type of scale to be Int instead of Integer \o/ 12:00:04 ehird, um. FBI probably does 12:00:05 oklopol: xD 12:00:09 AnMaster: Or, a bunch of satellite dishes, chained 12:00:12 Less powerful 12:00:16 all my errors seem to be bignum errors nowadays 12:00:18 ehird, mounted where? 12:00:21 Though you have to rent a 349583459873453495 places 12:00:24 AnMaster: Rent a bunch of places, duh 12:00:27 Daisy chaining them 12:00:29 yeah exactly 12:00:33 ehird, why not move instead? 12:00:45 or uh. Get internet over sat 12:00:49 that exists after all 12:00:55 AnMaster: Umm. 12:00:57 pikhq has sat internet. 12:00:58 It is SLOW. 12:01:03 ehird, latency is high yes 12:01:03 bsmntbombdood_'s 1mbit connection is faster. 12:01:13 but who cares about latency ;P 12:01:36 Anyway, he said moving would probably be the best option. 12:01:39 But thought experiment, bitch. 12:01:43 well, apart from gamers, people using irc, and most people using TCP 12:02:05 IRC uses TCP, fun fact. 12:02:24 ehird, well yes. Why not just hack google's plans for new data centers to place one next to him 12:02:24 :P 12:02:32 Remember what I said about plausible? 12:02:45 ehird, oh, *plausible* thought experiment 12:03:10 It's esoteric because it's not something you'd ever do. 12:03:15 ehird, and I know about irc using tcp :P 12:03:16 hw 12:03:19 however* 12:03:19 But that doesn't mean the solution has to be impractical; it's easy to be impractical. 12:03:21 why? 12:03:28 why not SCTP 12:03:30 err 12:03:32 Oh, shut up. 12:03:35 -!- MigoMipo has quit. 12:03:36 oh right 12:03:38 no one uses it 12:03:47 ehird, but sctp is COOL 12:03:52 Shuuuuuuuuuuuuuut 12:03:54 Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup 12:04:01 ehird, why do you hate it :/ 12:04:10 It's just totally boring, what you're saying, you see. 12:04:19 ehird, oh *sob* 12:04:22 so 12:04:35 any of you have knapsack problem instances you want to approximate fully polynomially? 12:04:39 oklopol: yes 12:04:47 oklopol: http://xkcd.com/287/ 12:04:48 kthx 12:04:56 that doesn't have a solution 12:04:59 oklopol: yes, it does 12:05:04 assuming it's the restaurant one 12:05:06 it does? 12:05:08 oklopol: two 12:05:13 although randall thought only on 12:05:14 e 12:05:16 his code was buggy 12:05:18 turns out there's two. 12:05:30 so get on it, bitch 12:06:23 oklopol, how would you do it polynomially? I thought it was NP? 12:06:34 or rather, NP-complete 12:06:34 "approximate" 12:06:34 it's a fully polynomial *approximation* 12:06:37 You're retaaaaaaaaaaaaaarded 12:06:42 ehird, oh right, missed that word 12:07:21 knapsack problem and subset sum are both np-complete, but they can both be approximated to any percentage in polynomial time 12:07:30 oklopol: gogogogogogo xkcd 12:07:33 fully polynomial means the time is also polynomial in the inverse of the epsilon 12:09:58 GO 12:10:28 huh 12:10:53 a group of students passing, speaking German. With a guide. 12:11:11 and then a minute later, one group speaking English 12:11:25 How...odd 12:11:26 ? 12:11:31 and just now I think Italian, but not completely sure 12:11:38 could be some other similar language 12:12:06 ehird, I can't think of a good explanation... 12:12:12 mine doesn't find it, and neither does http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p454663626.txt, and neither did a guy on #math when that was linked there 12:12:12 Tourists? 12:12:15 Secret agents? 12:12:28 ehird, another English group 12:12:29 hm 12:12:53 so if there is one, i'm interested in knowing what it is 12:12:54 oklopol: do you want me to link to 5 billion people solving it or do you want to avoid the embarrassment and fix your code 12:13:03 ehird: link 12:13:21 oklopol: first one i found: http://paddy3118.blogspot.com/2009/06/xkcd-knapsack-solution.html 12:13:23 btw 12:13:23 ehird, oh probably student exchange thingy 12:13:31 there is a solution if you assume the 7 is actually a 1 12:13:46 but that would be a weird assumption 12:13:52 oklopol: http://paddy3118.blogspot.com/2009/06/xkcd-knapsack-solution.html 12:14:03 ehird, at least that is my best guess 12:14:49 oh you can choose two of one? 12:14:49 oklopol: so there, bitch 12:14:52 ........................ 12:14:55 wow, no shit 12:15:00 of course it's impossible if you can't 12:15:10 eh? 12:15:16 of course? that's the usual subset sum :P 12:15:19 of course you can choose more than one of one. 12:15:25 otherwise it's trivially impossible 12:15:33 oh indeed, introduction for exchange students 12:15:34 if you can choose two of one, then in fact it is not an instance of subset sum 12:15:46 because the fucking name implies you choose a subset 12:16:04 hmm. 12:16:12 oklopol: Randall never said subset sum 12:16:12 actually i guess he doesn't say subset sum anywhere 12:16:13 so stfu 12:16:15 :P 12:16:16 snap 12:16:25 ehird, snap4? 12:16:40 http://collison.ie/blog/2008/04/lisp-machines 12:16:54 says knapsack problem, that is usually just one of each, but yeah, that could mean any of each. 12:17:03 oklopol: so get on it bitch 12:17:08 eh, i already found it 12:17:10 ehird, yes? 12:17:11 i told you 12:17:15 oklopol: i want approximatorors 12:17:33 AnMaster: uh, i answered your damn question 12:17:34 my approximator doesn't allow you to take any of each 12:17:45 oklopol: fix it :P 12:17:52 oklopol: uh, aren't all NP problems reducable to another 12:17:55 at least yet, i'm planning to include that too, later, but it's rather complicated 12:17:57 ehird, oh I was trying to make a joke about snap ;P 12:17:57 so reduce the multi one to ... single one 12:18:01 ehird: no, they aren't 12:18:06 god i hate talking to you about math 12:18:14 oklopol: umm, I'm pretty sure they are 12:18:15 you're so fucking smug and don't know shit 12:18:21 thanks 12:18:22 THEY AREN'T SHUT THE FUCK UP 12:18:25 i could stop talking to you if you want 12:18:41 ...or not, because i enjoy irritating you 12:18:58 ehird: the multi one can be trivially reduced to the single one by adding many of the same object. 12:19:04 ehird, damn. I was going to ask you if you would stop talking if I asked you as well 12:19:08 but not relevant 12:19:12 since you didn't for oklopol 12:19:13 but i'm not going to implement that because i'm implementing a better scheme for that later. 12:19:55 the obvious enhancement is to have only the "binary digits" of each object, have on of the object, one of it*2, one of it*4 etc 12:20:10 but there are better ways still, iirc 12:20:27 the whole problem drops like an order or something 12:20:38 you can approximate better 12:21:41 ehird: anyway all np-complete problems can reduced to each other, the *definition* of np-complete is a problem is in it if it's in np, and all that is in np can be reduced to it. 12:22:11 "np-complete is a problem is in it if it's in np" 12:22:17 so np-complete subset-of np? 12:22:22 yes 12:22:31 np-hard is when you drop the requirement of being in np 12:22:32 I didn't know np != np-complete 12:22:58 ok. 12:23:16 do you know what np is? 12:23:29 I didn't know np != np-complete <-- seriously? 12:23:32 vaguely, I mean I know what's in np and shit 12:23:38 and I think I know the basics of its definition 12:24:04 what are the basics of its definition? 12:24:08 AnMaster: please do not act incredulous at a piece of knowledge I lack in future or I will be forced to dig up a billion obvious things you didn't know either 12:24:23 AnMaster: do you know what np is? 12:24:25 ehird, it isn't as if you didn't already do that 12:24:27 oklopol: not having an O(n) solution, obvs, and then other stuff. i'm sort of tired 12:24:36 oklopol: worthless asking AnMaster that, he'll just go look it up on wp 12:25:04 i don't mind 12:25:12 oklopol, well yes. the complexity class of Non-polynomial problems. IIRC that is non-polynomial in time, non-polynomial for memory being some other class? 12:25:30 better that he looks up, learns and lies than that he just doesn't know. 12:25:32 NP is not non-polynomial 12:25:38 AnMaster: yeah no :D 12:25:43 it's nondeterministic polynomial. 12:26:03 oh mixed it up with np-complete. At least I knew NP != NP-complete 12:26:04 so AnMaster, you seriously just "seriously"'d me for something you don't know yourself :) 12:26:09 AnMaster: basically you have a machine that has amb. whatever it does in polynomial time is in np. 12:26:31 well np-complete you can verify in polynomial 12:26:34 that is part of the point 12:26:40 AnMaster: that's the other definition 12:26:45 same thing really 12:26:51 AnMaster: that's exactly the wording on wikipedia 12:26:56 somehow i doubt the originality of that thought 12:27:28 the verification idea is more accessible to most ppl, but it's less general, that is, stuff like ATM's are harder to describe like that 12:27:34 ehird, it is? I don't have browser open. I don't claim I thought of it myself, I read about it some time ago 12:27:38 so it's kinda like learning calculus the intuitive way 12:27:43 but I'm not quoting it "live" 12:27:52 it's easy and fun, but it's useless if you wanna learn topology later 12:27:55 must be a few months ago I last read about np-complete and such 12:28:27 AnMaster: you can verify *NP* in polynomial time 12:28:40 oklopol, right 12:28:41 hm 12:28:47 np-complete <= np 12:28:56 AnMaster: that's exactly the wording on wikipedia <-- what page, just opened browser on np-complete and checked 12:29:01 * ehird popcorn 12:29:02 "# Any given solution to the problem can be verified quickly (in polynomial time); the set of problems with this property is called NP." 12:29:08 doesn't look like the same wording 12:29:13 same meaning yes 12:29:18 it's not the same meaning 12:29:19 but not same wording 12:29:20 clearly, AnMaster, it only counts if you copy the bytes 1:1 12:29:24 you said np-complete 12:29:27 that's the wording i used. 12:30:23 well np-complete you can verify in polynomial that is part of the point AnMaster: that's exactly the wording on wikipedia 12:30:27 Answer: No 12:31:06 hypothesis: you could kill AnMaster by utilising his urge to smarmily debunk everything you say no matter how long i t takes 12:31:08 *takes 12:31:15 or how trivial and offhand your original statement was 12:31:23 basically, he'd not have any time for food, drink, sleep etc. 12:32:27 i'm far less annoyed by whatever annoying AnMaster did that i didn't notice, than your annoying way to state untrue things about complexity theory without even bothering to memorize the few basic definitions even my mom knows. 12:33:06 oklopol: yes, but I relish in stating things without a "but I'm ignorant and might be wrong", because (a) I consider that implicit in everything I say and (b) it riles you up which is cute. 12:35:39 okay sorry i'm just having my period 12:36:11 oklopol: i wouldn't put it past you 12:37:02 ehird, actually I was eating a sandwich while I was chatting above :P 12:37:55 actually my mom has no idea what the whole nondeterministic stuff is all about, even though i've tried to explain it like a gazillion times 12:38:06 yes oklopol 12:38:08 that is because she is your mom. 12:38:26 my dad usually at least pays attention, then asks something completely stupid that shows he didn't understand a thing :< 12:38:35 :D 12:38:38 and i'm like "uhh... sure :(" 12:38:49 "you got it, i'll go read now" 12:38:58 oklopol: try and explain something I know nothing about to me, and I will be infuriating 12:39:05 it'll be theraputic, whereby theraputic i mean hilarious for me 12:39:39 but i suck at explaining anything nontrivial, because i'll just get all like "uhh... can't you just read the algebra" 12:40:06 oklopol: let us assume, for the sake of infuriation, that i know no algebra whatever (NO JOKES ABOUT THIS BEING TRUE KTHX) 12:41:05 well okay do you know what groups are 12:41:22 oklopol: Nope, because fictional I are mathtardde 12:41:26 ......fix that 12:41:33 algebraic structures, one of which a group is, are these things where you have a set of objects, and a few operations between them 12:41:55 oklopol: what's an algebraic structure, what's a set, what's an object, what's an operation 12:42:32 i defined algebraic structure already, a set is an unordered collection of objects, object is just anything, operation is a dude who, given some dudes, gives out another dude 12:42:48 oklopol: what's ordering, also i don't get what you mean by dude 12:42:52 and for operation, it's deterministic, it's a function 12:42:53 is it like, representing a person? 12:43:03 eh? what's deterministic? what's function? 12:43:07 :P 12:43:11 why :P? 12:43:29 :P is the class of problems even your colon has enough brain cells to compute in polynomial time 12:43:42 oklopol: Nope, because fictional I are mathtardde <-- grammartard too! 12:43:46 oklopol: well ask your colon to talk to me! 12:44:17 also even though i could break the ordering thing down, i'm not sure i can break down the definition of a set without introducing predicate calculus 12:44:33 what have pebbles got to do with this 12:44:59 pebb...les? 12:45:04 ... 12:45:05 calculus 12:45:08 ehird, when are you going to start pretending to be stupid? So far you seem like your usual self ;P 12:45:17 oh 12:45:51 i thought it was a pet name for something 12:45:55 oklopol, I don't get the calculus <=> pebbles joke... 12:45:56 like a dog 12:46:19 AnMaster: some of the deadly pebbles in humans are called that 12:46:21 -!- ehird has set topic: What have a dog got to do with this? http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 12:46:23 small stones and calculus? 12:46:31 you know the ones that form around 12:46:35 and exploed 12:46:39 oklopol's got it 12:46:45 eeh? 12:46:49 ... 12:47:04 let's see what my personal internet says 12:47:11 Pathology. An abnormal concretion in the body, usually formed of mineral salts and found in the gallbladder, kidney, or urinary bladder, for example. 12:47:23 you should get one of those, it's handy 12:47:26 i mean 12:47:27 internet 12:47:29 ;) 12:47:47 oklopol, oh are those called calculus? 12:47:48 I see 12:47:56 Yes. 12:48:23 ah you said "what *have* pebbless..." 12:48:26 *pebbles 12:48:34 well not odd I didn't get the joke. And no interwiki links to Swedish for it. 12:48:36 meh 12:48:41 i thought has, something about the dude being called pebbles 8| 12:48:42 you're just dumb AnMaster 12:48:58 ehird, wrong. I just had no clue about the other meaning of the word calculus 12:49:08 sheesh 12:50:06 AnMaster: this was the first time i saw the word in actual use 12:50:24 oklopol, ok 12:50:50 i mean outside text... i think i've heard it outside a dictionary though 12:50:57 (irc != text in this context) 12:51:54 but doesn't the word calculate have something to do with pebbles being used for calculation or something... or maybe it's a mnemonic 12:52:38 oklopol, yeah it is how you take the medical product of two vectors 12:54:24 AnMaster: was that an attempt at a joke? 12:54:40 AnMaster: vectors can't be multiplied :P 12:55:10 ehird, what do you think 12:55:24 well there are many products for them, but usually in a vector space you don't have a V x V -> V except for addition 12:55:30 "I started the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. AMA" 12:55:31 Do you want 400 or 401 manbabies? 12:55:32 Your choice. 12:55:56 oklopol, indeed. but I was just making a reference to "dot product", something I'm sure you know about 12:56:30 well sure 12:56:35 ............................but it wasn't............funny 12:56:55 i can't say whether it was funny or not, i didn't get it, even though i got the reference 12:57:24 something from math, something from medicine, spliced together, like ehird did with calculus 12:57:27 oklopol, wikipedia page was Calculus (medical) for the other meaning of calculus 12:57:29 get it now? 12:57:40 right, exploding stones 12:57:56 exploding? huh 12:58:03 :P 12:58:06 didn't you listen to oklopol 12:58:31 eh eh 12:58:37 plural is calculi heh 12:59:14 Latin! Ha. 13:00:21 AnMaster: it's a common plural of "us" 13:00:35 the exception is cactuxes 13:01:47 oklopol: isn't it cactuci 13:02:02 cactodes 13:02:08 no Deewiant 13:02:19 No?! 13:02:23 I've been living a lie 13:02:30 yep. 13:02:36 Excuse me while I jump out of the window -> 13:03:02 `addquote no Deewiant No?! I've been living a lie yep. Excuse me while I jump out of the window -> 13:03:03 77| no Deewiant No?! I've been living a lie yep. Excuse me while I jump out of the window -> 13:03:11 <- 13:03:16 It didn't open far enough, oh well. 13:03:18 wb Deewiant 13:03:20 how did it go? 13:03:21 aw 13:03:46 ehird: 14.85 is what i get for at most 30% error: 5.80, 3.55, 3.35, 2.15 13:04:01 oklopol: what about at most 0.1% error 13:04:08 :P 13:04:08 it was optimal until that 13:04:26 hm 13:04:29 wait 13:04:33 err, wrong window 13:04:41 1500 for 20% :P 13:04:56 I want to suck your cock err, wrong window 13:04:56 i've never gotten even near the theoretical worst case 13:04:59 hm err, wrong window 13:05:15 AnMaster is terrified that we'll mistakenly attribute incorrect context to his hmming. 13:05:35 what would need to happen is that the greedy solution be close to its worst case 13:05:58 but it usually finds the correct solution for random input 13:06:03 or at least very close to it 13:06:06 random dingbut 13:06:07 dingbutt 13:06:09 dingbat 13:06:09 wat 13:06:12 kat 13:06:12 cat 13:06:14 feline 13:06:16 i'm sure you all know what "the greedy algo" is for knapsack 13:06:19 input → feline 13:06:46 AnMaster is terrified that we'll mistakenly attribute incorrect context to his hmming. <-- yes that would be horrible 13:07:04 the other end of the spectrum is augur 13:07:15 when he says "I want to suck your cock", it's hard to even find out which channel he meant 13:07:21 it's like, his catchphrase 13:07:26 other people go "er", augur goes that 13:09:04 heh, the fact the greedy solution is a 0.5 approximation is "folklore" according to one of the papers :P 13:09:17 that's such a fun term 13:14:17 -!- Asztal has joined. 13:15:46 oklopol, to knapsack? 13:15:53 Yes, AnMaster. 13:15:56 right 13:15:58 To knapsack is a funny term. 13:16:21 ehird, [greedy solution] to knapsack ;P 13:16:23 but yeah 13:16:28 funny as a verb too 13:16:30 yes. 13:16:53 ehird, but you are ehirding I see. 13:17:01 eh? 13:17:52 you are both being very funnoying 13:17:52 bbiab, going to suspend laptop to move to another building, any scrollback before I announce I'm back will likely be missing due to forgetting to exiting client at home. 13:18:03 oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 13:29:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:33:13 oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo <-- last line for me 13:33:25 yes 13:33:44 you missed a very important line 13:33:49 we're so proud 13:34:36 http://images.google.se/images?q=vaniljmunk&hl=sv <-- what's that in English 13:34:51 biscuit 13:35:04 ehird, nah, that is broader 13:35:09 er no 13:35:11 biscuit 13:35:18 oh oh that 13:35:24 ehird, vanilla or chocolate filled? 13:35:38 that's a poetry 13:35:44 err? 13:35:45 oh no wait 13:35:51 it's a doughnut 13:35:53 oh no wait 13:35:59 it's a building 13:36:03 doughnut with no hole in it 13:36:05 yeah 13:36:10 and vanilla filled 13:36:10 it's a building 13:36:49 ehird, oh right, multiple pictures :P 13:37:03 it's an infinity 13:37:20 doughnut with no hole in it, filled with vanilla cream, and lots of sugar on top 13:37:25 oh 13:37:31 a falafel, AnMaster 13:37:50 oh and it is topologically un-equivalent to a coffee cup! 13:37:55 a falafel, AnMaster 13:38:17 ehird, nah that is something else says google 13:38:24 it's wrong 13:38:30 in idiomatic usage 13:38:37 that's a falafel 13:38:41 at least 13:38:43 in the uk 13:38:50 ehird, this is what I'm talking about: http://www.delicato.se/produkt/big/41_appeloch_vaniljmunk.jpg (but no apple in the one I ate) 13:39:01 falafel, in the uk 13:39:06 at least 13:39:14 ehird: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falafel 13:39:22 huh 13:39:32 that's not what it means here 13:39:44 ehird, your dialect? 13:39:49 i guess? 13:39:53 ;P 13:39:57 dynamite? 13:40:03 oklopol, heh 13:40:06 ...heh? 13:40:08 8| 13:40:15 DID YOU JUST GET MY JOKE? 13:40:22 i doubt ir 13:40:24 it 13:40:25 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 13:40:37 oklopol, well there was two possible joke-y interpretations of that at least. 13:40:43 i believe you 13:40:52 oklopol, not sure I got the one you intended 13:41:03 i... just said dynamite, sorry :P 13:41:07 bbl again (scrollback rules above apply) 13:41:09 xDDDDDDDDDDD 13:41:11 need to go wash like dishes and stuff 13:41:26 AnMaster: wtf were the "jokes" 13:42:37 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("reboot"). 13:43:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:50:11 need to go wash like dishes and stuff <-- last line this time 13:50:18 AnMaster: wtf were the "jokes" 13:50:31 ehird, ? 13:50:36 oh that 13:50:43 forgot 13:50:45 13:41 13:50:45 ] 13:50:45 member:oklopol 13:50:46 : 13:50:46 i... just said dynamite, sorry :P 13:51:02 ehird, yeah, turned out he didn't joke intentionally 13:51:06 also 13:51:10 that quote format is fucked 13:51:24 ehird, try at least keep it on one line for one irc line? ok? 13:51:27 so what were the """"""""""jokes""" 13:51:33 also, no. 13:51:40 ehird, forgot 13:51:49 uh huh 13:51:51 suuuuuuuuure 13:52:04 ehird, well remember one. will give you a hint: roadrunner 13:52:05 bbl 13:52:33 HOW IS THAT RELATED TO DOUGHNUTS 13:59:05 so, for some reason, dynamite is the reason you thought falafels were like that 13:59:39 although i don't think you have any attributes of either coyotes or roadrunners, so i don't see how that works 13:59:51 or maybe there was some other way i could've meant it 14:00:26 well there's the obvious "maybe you both explode so i don't have to watch you arguing all day?" 14:00:31 i think that was #1 14:08:00 oklopol, oh and calculus 14:09:42 oklopol, calculate dot product for a coyote(*) throwing a normal sized(**) dynamite stick. 14:10:06 (*) standing at origio, looking along x axis at road runner 14:10:16 (**) Cartoon standards for normal sized 14:10:43 (***) No, it isn't supposed to make sense, if it does, it is just a coincidence! 14:14:45 you are crazier than i am :P 14:16:23 oklopol, thanks 14:19:35 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:25:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:26:19 huh? no zsnes package in ubuntu 14:26:21 ehird, ^ 14:26:26 any idea about that 14:27:28 oh no x86_64 one 14:27:38 but that works with multilib so wth 14:41:32 bbl going home 15:19:35 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 15:36:07 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:40:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:41:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 15:45:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:51:09 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:51:21 oklopol, calculate dot product for a coyote(*) throwing a normal sized(**) dynamite stick. <-- clearly the dot product must be zero, since by cartoon physics the stick will always explode at the site of the coyote itself 15:51:45 regardless of how convoluted a path it takes to get there 15:53:31 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:15:33 oerjan, correct! 16:16:53 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:18:40 oerjan, now calculate the path 16:19:59 it is not deterministic 16:20:16 oerjan, correct word by word heh 16:20:35 in fact it follows the principle that whatever path you calculate, that will certainly be nowhere close to the actual path taken 16:20:41 oerjan, DID YOU COPY IT FROM THE TEXT BOOK? 16:20:42 ;P 16:20:55 i haven't seen the text book 16:20:59 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Client Quit). 16:21:04 oerjan, that's what SHE said ;P 16:21:08 did you watch it in cartoon form 16:21:22 that would be one awesome linear algebra course 16:21:32 oklopol, heh 16:22:18 oerjan: and to clarify AnMaster's joke, she said that to you, that *you* haven't seen the text book. of you know sex. because she thought you sucked. 16:23:09 oklopol, err... I lost track of the prepositions in there 16:23:32 oh wait, to oerjan 16:23:33 right 16:23:49 the highlight colour confused me 16:23:53 oklopol: hah your secret identity has been revealed, joke_explainer 16:24:56 oerjan, reference to mezacotta? 16:24:58 (spelling?) 16:25:04 no, to reddit 16:25:28 oerjan, oh I don't readd it 16:25:43 wait that didn't work well 16:25:44 joke_explainer is a commenter account there, which explains jokes 16:25:58 instead of looking like a pun on reddit, it looks like re-add 16:26:18 i suggest you resubtract that pun, then 16:26:24 oerjan, augh 16:26:29 oerjan: no no joke *clarifier* 16:27:15 oklopol: no use explaining away my logic, that's no joke 16:27:24 or wait, maybe it is 16:27:29 oerjan, that is no explaination... 16:27:39 (sorry for that one) 16:27:51 can i be a joke not understander when it comes to the current pun 16:27:55 *explanation 16:28:09 oklopol, that's no moon. Get it? 16:28:19 oerjan, yes but the typo made it actually true instead 16:28:20 oklopol: yes but you'll have to pay an extra surcharge 16:28:20 ;P 16:28:26 AnMaster: no not really :\ 16:28:33 oklopol, Star Wars? 16:28:39 seen it? 16:28:49 well, episode 4, which was the first one produced 16:28:51 i've seen some of them when they were new 16:28:53 with Luke, and so on 16:29:06 do they say 16:29:17 "that's no moon" about some huge mothership 16:29:30 the DEATH STAR, oklopol 16:29:36 so a huge mothership 16:29:54 i suppose 16:29:55 is death star the one that looks like a moon 16:30:13 sigh 16:30:15 it is rougly spherical, yes 16:30:18 *roughly 16:30:43 I suck at popular culture... but seriously oklopol... you are worse 16:30:56 :P 16:30:58 actually it is probably not big enough that a moon that size would have to be spherical 16:31:13 not sure of this 16:31:17 well i take that as a compliment, even though i doubt it 16:31:22 oerjan, not sure of the scale in there 16:31:40 oerjan, also physics can go fuck itself in star wars... 16:31:47 seriously, hyper space? 16:31:50 antigravity? 16:32:15 you need to invent some way of ftl for a galactic civ, hyperspace is as good as any 16:32:17 and: what happened to inertia? 16:32:37 oerjan, worm holes seems at least slightly less implausible 16:32:39 antigravity and inertia breaking are more or less equivalent, i should think 16:33:13 oerjan, well, what about biology then. Is every planet just one type of terrain? 16:33:21 and hyperspace implies inertia breaking, doesn't it 16:33:36 oklopol, depends on how you implement it... 16:33:37 * oerjan points out that the Star Wars implausability debate is that way -> 16:33:54 city planet, desert planet, forest planet, water planet (iirc, wasn't it where the clones came from) 16:33:59 *-and 16:34:07 and so on 16:34:08 that's a simple physics question 16:34:11 i don't give a shit about sw 16:34:14 oh and ice planet 16:34:34 i just watch american tv shows 16:34:43 I don't watch tv nowdays 16:34:50 me neither, but i watch tv shows 16:34:52 and very seldom movies as well 16:34:57 oklopol: hyperspace i cannot say what it implies 16:34:58 or tv shows 16:35:18 oerjan: not simple enough for you huh?? 16:35:23 oerjan, hyperspace could imply folding space time itself. There are issues with that too of course... 16:35:36 AnMaster: well some of those are plausible, given vast difference in planet composition or climate 16:35:41 i guess i just meant if it's > light speed, you need to break inertia because there'd be an infinite amount of it 16:35:47 but yeah dunno hey i haven't idea 16:35:48 but a forest planet seems a bit off 16:36:05 oerjan, and what about those animals on the ice plantet 16:36:13 oerjan, you know, that han solo was riding on for example 16:36:25 are they made of ice 16:36:42 AnMaster: biology is rarely the strong point of popular scifi i should think ;D 16:36:48 I just can't imagine that planet supporting the required food. Like you know, plants, predators and all that 16:36:56 and maybe like a snow man that can fly 16:37:00 *snowman 16:37:48 oklopol - Making comments that could possibly be considered to be slightly relevant in the right light since 16:38:40 "Various sources state the first Death Star has a diameter between 120 and 160 kilometers." 16:39:41 oerjan, is that canon? 16:39:49 that's from wikipedia 16:40:00 hm it's bigger than phobos and deimos 16:40:16 AnMaster: it's not a comment, it's a question 16:40:19 are they made of ice 16:41:05 oerjan, oh and why didn't they put the shield generator inside the second death star? I always wondered. Sure it wouldn't be possible early on, but at the point in the movie it had already reached a large enough size to support the generator station shown on ground in the movie 16:41:07 "The original draft of the 2006 IAU resolution redefined hydrostatic equilibrium shape as applying "to objects with mass above 5 × 1020 kg and diameter greater than 800 km"" 16:41:20 oerjan, eh? 16:41:29 in other words, a moon the size of the death star would not necessarily be spherical 16:41:36 oh ok 16:41:43 oerjan: also it's made of pure metal 16:41:44 oerjan, well earth isn't spherical either 16:41:49 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_planet#Size_and_mass) 16:42:06 oklopol, I would assume they would use composite materials too 16:42:16 AnMaster: hydrostatic equilibrium is the technical term 16:42:28 oerjan, what does it has to do with water 16:42:34 which I assume "hydro" there is about 16:42:39 AnMaster: i mean, it's harder to break than rock. 16:42:46 oklopol, well yes 16:42:51 otherwise it'd be too easy to blast into pieces 16:43:01 mmm 16:43:34 AnMaster: water flows, and therefore always reaches equilibrium 16:43:40 so what i'm saying is HSE would apply even less 16:44:08 for a planet, it must have gravity strong enough to overcome the strength of its material, iiuc 16:44:32 you mean that's the definition? 16:44:38 err 16:44:40 yeah no 16:44:43 oerjan, yeah, but weren't it like... molten... back when it formed. Due to impact and such 16:44:47 what do you mean must? 16:44:49 well 16:44:53 maybe depends on size 16:45:29 anyway my point was that molten material would form more easy in a sphere shape than cold rock 16:45:56 AnMaster: well yeah but it would still collapse into a rounded form if it were solid throughout, iiuc 16:46:00 oklopol, "must to be round" 16:46:09 oerjan, oh? 16:46:38 oerjan, wouldn't it make the rock crack and such 16:46:49 so it was just a bunch of stones flying around 16:46:53 well duh the rock cracking is how it collapses 16:47:05 um no because it's attracted toward the center 16:47:19 oerjan, plus it seems to manage ok on earth, Earth isn't a perfect sphere, and earth is definitely large enough 16:47:44 AnMaster: it's only a bit on the surface though 16:48:01 oerjan, yes but what would "fuse" them together again? Or maybe that wouldn't be needed 16:48:07 oerjan, hm true 16:48:31 it's the huge pressure deeper inside that cannot be withstood 16:51:09 oerjan, right 16:51:22 also it's not necessarily a perfect sphere, because rotation changes the equilibrium form, so earth's bulge at the equator is not an exception to this 16:52:09 oerjan, about the only plausible "one terrain" planet in Star Wars would be the gas giant with that city in it.... Though the floating city could be disputed of course... 16:52:33 "The amount of leeway afforded the definition could affect the classification of the asteroid Vesta, which appears to have solidified while in hydrostatic equilibrium but to have subsequently been significantly deformed by a large impact." 16:53:04 ^ shows that your moltenness comment can apply to some cases 16:53:20 AnMaster: yes, i know he meant "must be round", i asked *why* it must be round 16:53:27 oerjan, ah. Where it wasn't hydro-whatever after it became solid? ok 16:53:33 err 16:53:34 what 16:53:36 oklopol, ...? 16:53:47 AnMaster: or at least after the impact 16:53:55 oerjan, fair enough 16:54:04 oerjan: for a planet, it must have gravity strong enough to overcome the strength of its material, iiuc <<< why must it have that strong a gravity? 16:54:20 is it part of the definition 16:54:25 oklopol, your question is highly nonsensical 16:54:28 okay 16:54:29 oklopol: yes, since 2006 16:54:40 what about pluto 16:54:44 planet and dwarf planet includes that 16:54:44 isn't it big enough? 16:55:07 yes, but it doesn't satisfy the further requirement for non-dwarf 16:55:14 ehird: I do not have sat Internet any more. 16:55:15 oerjan: since 2006 part of the definition, or the question actually made no sense, and you were going with a continuation on AnMaster's "making weird comments since..." joke? 16:55:24 I have campus Internet 16:55:28 It is awesome. 16:55:35 pikhq, oh? 16:55:42 pikhq, speed? 16:55:50 i mean why wouldn't that question make sense 16:56:03 What I myself have access to is 100mbps. 16:56:03 oklopol, why do gravity exist? 16:56:10 oklopol: i don't know what AnMaster was talking about ;D 16:56:18 (I'm limited by Ethernet speeds) 16:56:20 oerjan: okay, good 16:56:20 pikhq, lucky you. I only have wlan on campus 16:56:24 not sure what the speed is 16:56:29 will check tomorrow I guess 16:56:39 AnMaster: not all things in space have enough gravity to break their own material 16:56:46 say a toy car you throw in there 16:56:55 its gravity will not crack it. 16:57:05 pikhq, also 100 mbps ethernet? 16:57:09 pikhq, are you joking? 16:57:21 i'm asking why a planet must have such a gravity, it's not obvious that's part of the definition, why would it be 16:57:22 AnMaster: isn't a desert planet also plausible given that there is almost no water on it? (which i recall was canonically explained as due to a war disaster btw) 16:57:23 1 Gbps since years 16:57:26 is common 16:57:39 pikhq, or is your computer too old for that 16:57:43 and ice, given that it is freaking _cold_ 16:58:18 oerjan, and still supports large animals? 16:58:27 AnMaster: floating city isn't that bad, there have been suggestions of doing that on venus 16:58:27 that is the bit I'm having trouble with 16:58:30 for ice planets 16:58:41 oerjan, okay. With what? 16:58:45 anti-gravity? 16:58:53 AnMaster: balloons 16:59:10 oerjan, oh. I guess they will have to ban all sharp objects 16:59:15 AnMaster: i'm not going to try explaining away star wars biology :D 16:59:39 oerjan, city planet is also bothering me 16:59:49 AND WHY NO RAILS (I know IWC mentioned this a lot) 16:59:58 AnMaster: or airships? they're not _that_ vulnerable if well-designed. although recall extreme winds was a problem on venus 17:00:22 AnMaster: coruscant bothers _everyone_. i thought you read iwc ;D 17:00:30 oerjan, yes I do 17:00:34 oerjan, but 17:00:56 can't I complain myself as well? 17:01:15 pikhq: you mean you are finally liberated from the satellites? 17:01:27 AnMaster: The dorms are 80 years old, the Ethernet is 10 years old. 17:01:38 They have yet to rennovate. 17:01:49 oerjan: Yes. 17:02:39 congratulations 17:04:17 pikhq, ah 17:04:27 pikhq, what is latency? 17:05:26 100ms 17:11:03 pikhq, to what server 17:13:15 Google 17:17:38 pikhq, how much of that is on the uni network? 17:22:09 About 10 hops. 17:22:19 It then does several Internet2 hops. 17:23:10 there's an Internet2? 17:23:15 Yes. 17:23:50 It's a network of higher education institutions that has rather ridiculous speeds. 17:23:52 huh. 17:24:14 The backbone is about 100 Gbps. 17:25:49 Sorry, that's the link between each node. 17:27:19 pikhq, wow you are on internet2 :D 17:27:30 pikhq, that's like awesome 17:31:35 so universities decided to make a new internet now that the old one is mainstream 17:31:55 just wasn't cool anymore 17:32:00 oklopol, actually I think it was to test higher speed and such 17:32:17 oklopol, iirc they managed several gbps in tests 17:32:28 between mainland US and Hawaii 17:32:35 oh it wasn't just because they thought it'd be cool? i see. 17:34:01 several gbps isn't really that hard to do, just have a lot of wires :P 17:34:42 assuming we don't care about latency and similar uninteresting practicalities 17:36:30 i've been trying to drink my coke for about 7 hours now, but every time i open it, it starts spouting everywhere :< 17:36:37 (it was in the fridge a few days) 17:39:16 oklopol, low latency too 17:40:46 oklopol, also you can easily get tbps burst rate. Just ship a container full of harddrives. Latency: huge. Burst bandwidth: Huge. Sustained bandwidth: Low. 17:41:02 sure 17:41:37 and you can sustain a bandwidth by having them go back and forth all the time! 17:41:53 like millions of them, so there's one burst a second 17:41:57 oklopol, that would require a lot of containers and people filling them up at the same time 17:42:18 oklopol, and yeah exactly 17:42:38 it would be the most awesomest network ever 17:43:14 hmm, actually you trade further latency for getting smaller burst distances 17:43:40 by stacking requests up for say a year, then moving to the other side, starting to empty them in the same order and speed 17:43:53 oklopol: have you tried opening it just a tiny bit to let out the gas? 17:44:05 oerjan: i've done that every 5 minutes for the whole time :P 17:44:13 huh 17:44:23 but the coke starts rising, until it's right under the gap and i need to close it 17:44:34 takes ages for it to drop back 17:44:41 *cap 17:44:46 oklopol, what causes it 17:44:48 oklopol: It's not so much "a new Internet" as it is "really fast Internet links". 17:44:54 I mean, is it due to the drink being cold or? 17:45:00 ok next idea find a bucket to open it in ;D 17:45:05 (since the whole thing is Internet-routable) 17:45:08 pikhq: i know, it was just a bad joke on the fact the first internet started as a uni experiment too. 17:45:10 well 17:45:14 Mmkay. 17:45:42 err 17:46:19 or how did it go again 17:46:25 i can't memorize history 17:46:51 defense experiment afaik 17:46:55 right 17:47:01 but 17:47:07 brb, restarting client for upgrade 17:47:08 the uni network pioneered something 17:47:09 right 17:47:28 back 17:47:28 well dunno, doesn't matter 17:47:58 brb, have to look out the window 17:48:00 back 17:49:13 :D 17:49:21 just meant I lost scrollback 17:51:40 so you'll never know the wicked things we said about you 17:51:45 oh, whoops 17:53:39 * AnMaster wonders why the hell he only gets sound on one ear 17:53:55 * AnMaster looks at confusing mixer controls 17:54:17 it isn't headphones, they give sound on both ears on the laptop 17:54:33 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:55:16 oh great. fuck alsa 17:55:54 and fuck kmix even more. at least alsamixer showed what was wrong 17:58:52 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:09:57 what the hell is going on 18:10:05 joystick no longer found under 2.6.30 kernels? 18:10:06 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:10:29 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:10:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:26:52 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 18:28:47 -!- puzzlet has joined. 19:13:37 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:15:47 what the hell 19:16:16 rudder pedals show up as a joystick (as expected), joystick and throttle doesn't, it shows up as a raw device 19:16:27 this worked last week and it is broken on both computers 19:16:37 so what is likely? broken joystick? :( 19:29:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:42:28 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:58:19 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:28:38 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 20:41:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:49:37 -!- pingveno has joined. 20:53:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:53:55 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:58:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 21:29:54 * coppro had a great day today 21:30:44 good, good 21:33:10 does that imply not all of your days are great, ARE YOU SAYING YOUR LIFE SUCKS? 21:33:28 oklopol: no 21:33:32 oh 21:33:36 then good, good 21:33:45 but few of my days qualify as being 'great' 21:33:46 XD 21:34:04 mine neither, but uni starts soon \o/ 21:34:06 my school has a new tech-savy AP; it's going to be awesome 21:34:16 AP? 21:34:34 Assistant Principle 21:34:51 he actually asked if I used SQL 21:35:20 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Connection timed out). 21:37:52 i'm not sure how that's going to affect you 21:41:16 oklopol: having a good administration is a good thing. And as the most tech-savy student (probably person) in the school, I stand to be first in line if he reaches out to the student body (actually, there's one other, but he's better at using computers, not running them) 21:42:43 so do you mean like what computer stuff your school should buy 21:43:52 no, I mean how computers will be used in the school. The board is afraid of computers; the AP said he wants to push as much as he can 21:44:26 ah 21:44:50 this is Good 21:45:21 and positive interaction with the administration is a good thing... it's amazing how many perks you can get by just asking an AP 21:45:30 or even the principal 21:50:42 * coppro thinks simple smileys like :) and :( should be allowed in formal communication 21:52:48 Automated Pelican 21:53:05 Astronomer's Pork 21:53:26 acronym plague 21:53:27 Alphabet Porn 21:55:14 Access Point? 21:59:17 Aardvark Poacher 22:05:07 Aqueduct Pipe 22:05:31 Analytical Positivist 22:06:18 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 22:07:31 Adequate Plum 22:10:14 Anal Plumage 22:10:27 I guess that doesn't make sense with "an" 22:12:14 an anal anatic anathema 22:13:25 *anatid 22:17:11 night 22:17:44 -!- pingveno has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:17:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:38:27 -!- olsner has joined. 22:41:18 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:41:32 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 22:45:09 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 22:50:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:26:07 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 23:48:48 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:48:53 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:55:52 08:28:09 oklopol, that's no moon. Get it? 23:55:53 can I kill you over the internet. 23:56:08 08:29:55 is death star the one that looks like a moon 23:56:09 <3 23:57:54 i still don't get the moon joke 23:58:07 it wasn't a joke, he was just quoting star wars 23:58:13 it's funny, you see, to quote things you know.