00:00:05 but that's just one of the meanings 00:00:27 books just keep piling up and they never finish :< 00:00:50 i assume the 64 meanings of chinese "(y)i" have nothing on that one 00:03:40 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 00:13:57 Haha: "scrollkeeper: Depends: rarian-compat but it is not going to be installed". "rarian-compat: Conflicts: scrollkeeper". 00:16:03 ok, that's a neat loop 00:16:12 are the depends/conflicts on particular versions? 00:16:31 loops like that are often used to force two things to be updated simultaneously, by depending on the new version and conflicting on all the old ones 00:16:41 but if versions aren't specified, that's really quite failful 00:16:59 I think it would show the versions if they were conflict/depends on version. 00:19:59 Not the worst FAIL I have seen with package management. IIRC, once there was package that was broken enough to make a mess out of package database (it required repair afterwards). 00:21:00 Or actually the package itself didn't mess it, but the installation failed in way that made dpkg mess up the package database. 00:30:26 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 00:31:25 fizzie: beware that IKEA tables may explode. http://www.adressa.no/nyheter/trondheim/article1374585.ece 00:31:39 yessir 00:33:37 -!- labo has joined. 00:40:19 Gaa. Now I'll have to live in constant fear of exploding tables. 00:40:38 them's the breaks 00:41:17 Well, at least the package deps format is so expressive that wheither deps are satisfiable is NP-complete problem... :-) 00:44:39 hm could that be made PSPACE-complete by considering source-based upgrade paths... 00:45:22 (if you sometimes had to downgrade in order to compile something before you can upgrade) 00:45:41 NP-hard by ability to transform Sudoku to deps and in NP by checking being easy. And NP-hard + in-NP => NP-complete. 00:46:30 the "sometimes had to downgrade" being essential to make it possibly harder than NP, here 00:46:49 oerjan: Can those paths blow up exponentially? 00:47:07 if it was complicated enough... 00:48:30 if you have to go back and forth enough. 00:48:57 Still not as bad as one game (Enigma): In that game "Is this level possible?" is RE-complete(!). 00:49:36 turing completeness tends to do that :) 00:49:44 (i assume that would be why) 00:50:32 Ilari: which level is that? 00:51:03 Yeah. Usually most of level file is Lua code (it can get callbacks that can modify the map and it even initially lays out the map). 00:53:04 ais523: Probably none of the standard levels. But it isn't difficult to design a level that's only possible if some turing machine halts on empty tape... 00:53:24 Ilari: not at all 00:53:29 after all, levels are written in Lua 00:53:45 * ais523 has actually written levels for Enigma that will be in the next version 00:55:31 If there are no callbacks to Lua code, its still PSPACE-complete (use pushable blocks and switches tied to openclose message to emulate sokoban). 00:56:14 Hmm... Maybe not. 00:56:26 (PSPACE-hard definitely) 00:57:12 Since the initial level layout might put superpolynomial amount of stuff to level... 00:58:35 depends whether you consider the layout size to be the size parameter... 00:58:43 But without callbacks to Lua and initial layout assumed to halt, its definitely recursive. 00:59:11 Input size: Size of Lua code for level. 00:59:21 Ilari: with an item-generation switch (requires a callback), you can do a Minsky machine with gradients and actors 00:59:26 and coins going into coinslots 01:00:21 Well, with callbacks, Lua code can do all kinds of funky stuff... 01:00:43 yes 01:00:47 I wrote a Sudoku level 01:01:18 Sudoku is only NP 01:02:17 I have written one "more serious" level. Was quite nasty as it essentially involved solving random 16 (easy) or 25 (normal) variable equation over GF(2). 01:02:35 Didn't send it anywhere. Don't know if I even have it anymore. 01:02:48 s/equation/equation group/ 01:02:54 people have posted insanely impossible levels in the past 01:03:23 look up my "test of dexterity" on the forums for one that needs incredibly high levels of mouse control, but is easy to work out the path through 01:06:49 For "looks totally impossible but just requires some nasty tricks": Put long horizontal or vertical stretch (tens of blocks) of "space" floor, and put stretches of abyss to its both sides. :-) 01:08:05 there's a level in the dev version based on that principle, but more complex 01:09:13 And I don't mean those few readymade levels that have short such stretches (up to something like 5 blocks), I really mean tens of blocks (or even 100+)... 01:10:39 And of course no umbrellas, forcefields or similar stuff. 01:12:53 100 block stretch, the window in direction is less than 0.6 degrees... 01:14:05 Other nasty stuff seen: Negative friction. 01:14:16 ah, the nightmare levels 01:14:23 it's a series of about 5, now 01:14:29 enigma 01:14:29 lols 01:14:33 i love oxyd to death 01:14:40 but some of the user-made levels for enigma are just silly 01:14:46 agreed, some are good though 01:14:53 i don't want to sift through them though 01:14:58 i KNOW all the oxyd levels are good :) 01:15:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:15:55 interestingly, i was just talking about oxyd in another channel 01:22:55 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:37:48 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:52:26 -!- labo has left (?). 04:12:15 -!- oklofok has joined. 04:32:26 -!- ehird has joined. 04:32:57 * ehird fumblse 04:32:59 fumbles 04:32:59 mmph 04:33:03 halo! 04:33:32 15:49:30 ehird: Our tables are the "Galant" IKEA ones. But you are no longer here! It is a tragedy. 04:33:33 quite so 04:33:36 15:55:31 wait, ehird was in finland? 04:33:36 yes 04:35:09 DID YOU KNOW: it is 4:35am? 04:36:51 what's the hardest class of possible decision problems? 04:38:21 seems like co-re-complete 04:42:17 who knows 04:42:32 also mörnin 04:42:33 hardest known i mean 04:42:42 an infinite chain is known 04:44:02 -!- ehird has set topic: What about my all insane? http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 04:44:13 oklofok: so I slept ais523's 8pm-4am schedule unintentionally 04:44:14 it sucks 04:45:37 There's also class "ALL". 04:45:52 yes, but that doesn't count :P 04:45:57 i guess I mean a -hard class 04:46:03 er, -complete 04:46:13 ALL-complete :P 04:46:18 Ilari: but ALL also includes impossible stuff, yah? 04:46:37 like RE-complete. 04:46:47 It includes even indescriable stuff. 04:47:22 * ehird descries 04:47:25 I descry a lot. 04:49:50 RE-complete and co-RE-complete are closely related. In RE-complete problems, algos hang on 'no' instances and in co-RE-complete problems, algos hang on 'yes' instances. 04:50:04 yah 04:50:15 Hardest class where algo that doesn't hang (or abort) is possible is R (Recursive). 04:50:38 Ilari: right, but there's no R-complete :P 04:57:32 Ilari: were you at some sorta helsinki-related university as well? 04:57:53 i should remember :\ 04:58:54 Then above RE and co-RE there is R^RE, above that RE^RE, co-RE^RE, then R^RE^RE, then RE^RE^RE, co-RE^RE^RE, etc... 04:59:30 co-RE^n 04:59:35 !!!! 04:59:37 co re n 04:59:38 coren 04:59:39 Korean 04:59:41 OMFG 04:59:57 whatRE^RE? 05:00:00 *what's 05:00:22 A^B A with B oracle? 05:00:30 Recursively Enumerable with RE-oracle. 05:02:18 right, was just wondering what ^ meant, i'm rather unfamiliar with the less practical classes 05:10:01 yay manually grepped helsinki out of you 05:10:22 should probably go do some morning shoppity 05:10:48 "I'll grep the shit out of you!" 05:36:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:40:46 I think even CCALL in GASOIL can be implemented using only CALL. I think it will work fine without any conditional commands 05:41:00 (That doesn't mean you should necessarily remove these commands from the GASOIL specification, though) 05:42:15 Are you in? 05:42:30 Nope 05:42:34 We're out 05:43:18 O, you're out. But obviously you could answer anyways. 05:43:28 No, I'm out. 05:43:48 CCALL (SWAP;0;=;48;+;CHR;"ccall";&;CALL) 05:43:57 0ccall (CALL) 1ccall (DROP) 05:43:59 looks like uhh, a thing 05:44:05 pretty much 05:44:25 What looks like what thing? 05:45:38 that 05:47:03 What "that"? 05:50:30 Do you think this program would work? 05:52:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:54:24 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 05:56:35 heh at zzo... 05:56:48 ehird, did that make as little sense to you as it did to me? 05:57:11 It'll be something about one of his five thousand new languages that we're meant to intimately follow the development of. 05:57:26 yeah I suspected as much 06:00:35 Hmm no. 06:00:43 He just forked someone else's language, like usual 06:00:51 Wait no 06:00:53 just suggested a change 06:04:24 ehird, what is your opinion on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_effect ? 06:04:56 It starts with a bullet point instead of a summary of the article with the title bolded, and the first letter is lowercase. 06:05:06 Appears to be 06:05:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mozart_effect&diff=prev&oldid=309016115 06:05:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mozart_effect&diff=next&oldid=309016115 06:05:14 vandalism 06:05:20 s/$/./ 06:05:49 AnMaster: Anyway, it'll just be intricate music that does it. 06:06:03 * ehird reverts the vandalism 06:06:05 ehird, so you think it might work? 06:06:24 I don't think it makes you smarter, I think it ... 06:06:25 Analogy time. 06:06:38 ehird, well yeah, I'm talking about the the short term effect mentioned 06:06:39 It doesn't overclock your brain, it just runs an intensive computation. 06:06:43 To disable the power-saving mode. 06:06:47 Sort of thing. 06:06:52 hm nice analogy 06:07:12 No, it's not, because it implies that the Mozart would have a high enough cognitive overhead as to be intensive on your thought processes, thus not actually helping. 06:07:14 But it's close enough. 06:07:47 Anyway, eight to nine points isn't exactly earth-shattering. 06:07:52 ehird, yeah, that analogy is probably closer to Schönberg 06:08:02 And if you're not really a Mozart fan, you'll just get annoyed, defeating the point. 06:08:16 ehird, well luckily I'm a Mozart fan :) 06:08:43 classical generally sucks *mauled* 06:08:49 ( Romantic blah blah) 06:09:14 ehird, music taste differs a lot so meh 06:10:00 also classical differs a lot. Mozart is generally quite "easy" to listen to. Compared to some other classical composers. Such as Kraus for example. 06:10:59 i basically like two kinds of music equally, fucking weird stuff that most people wouldn't call music, and then pretty much straightforward stuff 06:11:02 not really a middle ground 06:11:56 ehird, and classical would be in that middle ground I guess? 06:12:05 prolly, yeah 06:12:10 most of it at least 06:12:36 because I wouldn't call classical straight-forward. Nor "fucking weird stuff" (in most cases). 06:13:31 ehird, I think you would like Schoenberg, at least his middle period 06:13:40 i listened to some the last time you mentioned him 06:13:40 that is "fucking weird stuff" 06:13:42 it was cool 06:13:47 ehird, ah right 06:15:59 ehird, is http://xkcd.com/ broken for you too? 06:16:04 nope 06:16:12 so it loads? 06:16:17 instead of just a white page? 06:16:20 yes 06:16:25 ah now it works too here 06:16:27 weird 06:16:38 oh right.. no new one today 06:16:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:17:03 It isn't something about one of his five thousand new languages that we're meant to intimately follow the development of. 06:17:26 It is a comment about GASOIL (it's also on the talk page) 06:17:48 :D 06:17:54 kay 06:19:33 well I have listened to some Mozart... just in case ;) 06:21:17 defrag your memory next: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW0mBYZm6Uc 06:21:23 (note: memory defragmentation is painful.) 06:21:31 (do not use if pregnant or not pregnant) 06:21:53 hmm make that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW0mBYZm6Uc&fmt=18 06:21:57 stupid mono youtube regular quality 06:42:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:46:02 Deewiant: That weird javascript/haskell code thing is supercollider 06:46:08 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/9f323/1m53s_in_haskell_code_spotted_on_bbc_video/c0ciwqw?context=1 06:49:19 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:05:00 -!- Rugxulo has joined. 07:05:59 * Rugxulo has trouble finding good Befunge 93 examples ... 07:06:11 I mean, I found some, but I am surprised there aren't more 07:09:05 there are probably about 100 b93 programs total 07:09:15 of which 30 are even worth looking at, maybe 07:09:46 am I wrong or doesn't Brainf*** have loads more? 07:09:55 or maybe it just seems that way 07:10:26 Yes. 07:10:28 It is much more popular. 07:10:32 Rugxulo: look at befunge-98. 07:10:38 it's bloated, but there are quite a few programs 07:10:39 FOR INSTANCE 07:10:41 ^source 07:10:41 http://git.zem.fi/fungot 07:10:44 — fungot the IRC bot. 07:10:45 ehird: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 07:10:49 In particular, 07:10:58 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob_plain/HEAD:/fungot.b98 07:10:59 ehird: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! you are crono. why not? then you should leave quickly! are you leaving! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone ca 07:11:01 Be afraid, be very afraid. 07:11:34 -!- ehird has set topic: then you should leave quickly! are you leaving! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone ca http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 07:12:06 yeah, haven't really looked at Befunge-98 yet, looks odd 07:12:17 and Concurrent Funge (or whatever), lol 07:12:21 seriously!! :-) 07:12:54 it is, uhh, a little bloated 07:12:57 also don't use cfunge. 07:13:03 why not? 07:13:12 because :) 07:13:15 (although I can't anyways, doesn't support my preferred platform) 07:13:41 Shock! AnMaster makes it work on EVERYTHING that supports the intimate byclauses of the POSIX standard! 07:13:53 HE DEDICATES HIS LIFE TO ITS PORTABILITY! There cannot be a single platform it does not support! 07:14:03 well, my platform isn't quite 100% POSIX 07:14:04 * ehird has an aneurysm 07:14:07 good but not great 07:14:12 Rugxulo: I'm being sarcastic 07:14:14 Is it Windows? 07:14:21 heh 07:14:30 in the readme he claims Cygwin *might* work 07:14:31 That's a yes then 07:14:35 Rugxulo: It won't. 07:14:50 Don't worry, AnMaster will be happy to condescendingly mention how your platform isn't true POSIX. 07:14:51 and no, I actually wanted to use DJGPP, but alas ... ;-) 07:15:01 along with every other GNU nerd ... 07:15:21 Wait, did you say windows was your *preferred* platform? 07:15:28 God forbid anybody write anything "portable" that is actually, erm, portable! 07:15:29 Please don't say that means you actually like it :{ 07:15:39 actually like what? cfunge or DJGPP 07:15:40 ? 07:15:44 windows 07:15:51 Rugxulo: heck, I don't bother supporting the heap of windows shitapis, but I don't make a claim to portability, either 07:15:54 I like DOS :-) 07:16:29 it just feels hollow to brag about portability when all you support is "POSIX" (aka, Linux and whatever wants to be as popular as Linux) 07:16:45 actually, it works on SunOS I think 07:16:47 or something 07:16:54 you mean Solaris? 07:16:57 no 07:16:58 sunos 07:17:02 the predecessor 07:17:16 eh 07:17:17 no idea 07:17:31 he should try Minix and see if that works 07:18:08 don't try and read the code, by the way; he changed the initialisation of fungespace to use inline ASM with vector operations because the C loop was a few milliseconds shorter 07:18:12 (and was identified as a "bottleneck") 07:18:16 anyways, it doesn't matter, I'm happy with the default BEF.C (B93) interpreter for now 07:18:22 that attitude is applied, uhh, pretty uniformly 07:18:25 and BTW, what is "109" ? 07:18:34 Rugxulo: AnMaster's pet revision of befunge-98 that nobody needs. 07:18:47 but why not just call it "09" ? :-) 07:18:58 Because Chris Pressey told him to. 07:19:17 er, huh? 07:19:19 Rugxulo: It clears up a few edge cases everyone agrees on anyway, and turns fingerprints into URIs instead of compact 4-character names, even though that makes all code so much more uglier, and nobody has EVER needed it, and nobody else cares 07:19:26 Rugxulo: He asked Chris Pressey if he could use the name. 07:20:00 and, what, "Befunge09" is trademarked or something? 07:20:08 no, chris pressey just made befunge-93. 07:20:15 besides, -09 would be 1909. 07:20:22 it's befunge-{years since 1900}. 07:20:38 that seems silly 07:20:45 So does your mom :P 07:20:47 even the *nix epoch doesn't start until 1970 07:21:05 It's a reference to Y2K, ffs. 07:21:12 A bunch of sites did "19"+twodigityear. 07:21:18 Or "'"+twodigityear. 07:21:31 So we got sites saying "It's 13 January '100" 07:22:42 heh, looking at his vectorization code :-) 07:23:04 God knows why anybody prefers GNU inline syntax 07:23:22 he's ranted about how much intel asm sucks so much 07:23:25 (despite being rebutted) 07:23:26 (and m4 + sh for autoconf), Befunge is *less* obfuscated ;-) 07:23:38 you're lucky he isn't here right now, or there's about a 70% chance we would be in one of the channel's favourite pastimes, saying nothing while me and him argue noisily 07:24:27 I'm not convinced that GCC's -ftree-vectorize even does anything (despite 4.3.x's improvements) 99% of the time 07:24:46 Rugxulo: His optimised build includes a gcc option that does *unsafe* "math optimisations" 07:24:47 God help us when ymm0 (AVX) becomes available :-( 07:24:55 I think he once bruteforced a bunch of operations and benchmarked them 07:24:58 Also, he fuzz-tests it. 07:25:04 -ffast-math ?? or something else? 07:25:10 It has unsafe in the name 07:25:11 I think 07:25:15 ah 07:25:29 well, I mean, it's good to experiment, even if a lot of it doesn't pan out 07:25:40 This is how he does *everything* 07:25:56 If you want a befunge-98 interpreter that works well on windows, btw, try CCBI: http://iki.fi/matti.niemenmaa/befunge/ccbi.html 07:26:02 Although, hmm, that doesn't link to CCBI2 07:26:04 Oh well 07:26:11 There's a windows binary of 1 there, so should be painless. 07:27:58 seriously, how many people program in Concurrent Befunge?? 07:28:15 most people (me included) can't even handle normal concurrent programming :-P 07:28:57 argh, multiline C macros ;-) 07:29:15 CCBI also does TRDS, which cfunge never will 07:29:18 TRDS lets you travel in time. 07:29:22 'nuff sd 07:29:23 *sed 07:29:40 sed? stream editor? also considered obfuscated ;-) 07:30:32 BTW, ever heard of bfd? (tiny DOS Brainf*** compiler) 07:30:49 I think so. 07:30:50 s/compiler/optimizing &/ 07:30:55 Brainfuck compilers are a dime a dozen. 07:31:05 Rugxulo: Except 07:31:07 written in NASM, tre cool ;-) 07:31:10 take a look at this: http://code.google.com/p/esotope-bfc/ 07:31:13 compiles hello world to... 07:31:16 PUTS("Hello World!"); 07:31:28 (AnMaster may now mention inbetween, which is his own utter direct copy of esotope, despite denying this) 07:31:38 (and having, like, 3 more minor optimisations) 07:32:35 "written in Python", previous link was "written in D", and AnMaster's Cfunge is "written in C99 w/ mmap etc." :-/ 07:32:43 So what 07:32:56 so it's not as portable as I'd like 07:32:57 Python is ubiquitous, CCBI has binaries, cfunge sucks 07:33:02 Rugxulo: Seriously? 07:33:02 -!- MizardX- has joined. 07:33:02 heh 07:33:05 Name me ONE platform Python doesn't run on. 07:33:10 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:33:14 Python 2.5 will be deprecated eventually 07:33:18 3.1 is already out there 07:33:20 Python 2.6 07:33:21 You mean 07:33:22 And no 07:33:24 It will be maintained for years 07:33:27 it's written in 2.5 07:33:28 Because nobody uses Python 3 07:33:33 And Python 3 doesn't have 3489573498573495 libraries 07:33:35 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 07:33:35 while even Scons (I think) still runs on 1.5.2 (or whatever) 07:33:35 Rugxulo: backwards compatible. 07:33:42 Besides, 2to3. 07:33:48 It can be migrated at any time. 07:33:49 It's short anyway. 07:34:38 I just wonder why people bother bragging about portability when all they support is Mac OS X 10.5, Windows 2k or newer, Linux 2.6, etc. 07:34:57 What, exactly, would you like to be supported 07:35:11 you know what I mean, it's annoying how things are deprecated that work fine 07:35:51 it's just my pet peeve 07:36:05 Backwards compatibility is a gigantic part of why today's computing sucks. 07:36:16 I'm all for dropping the crap 07:37:31 but you don't get it, they want to drop 2k, XP, 32-bit, etc. 07:37:40 I get it perfectly well. 07:37:48 64-bit x86 has been around since 2003. 07:38:02 2k was released in 2000; XP was released in 2002. 07:38:06 Both suck. 07:38:13 no, only 2003 for AMD servers, Intel servers got it in 2004, home users didn't get it (Intel) until 2006 07:38:37 Intel was still selling P4s until then (ugh) 07:38:49 who knows, they still might (though I doubt it) 07:39:12 and you know about the P4, I presume (e.g. not everything "new" is better) 07:39:13 they stopped doing pentium 4s in 2008 07:39:42 anyway, is there actually a reason you use windows? 07:39:47 I mean, apart from masochism... 07:39:59 MMX is deprecated, FPU is deprecated, it's all annoying, everybody wants to kill everything that *they* don't use 07:40:08 well, it came installed on the machine 07:40:21 and I'm not exactly super familiar with *nix (e.g. Linux) 07:40:33 and most Linux distros aren't any good 07:40:38 or are very buggy 07:40:51 or outdated, don't work the ways I want, etc. 07:40:56 Ubuntu, man. 07:41:15 Linux hasn't sucked since about 2006, and it's been fine since about 2007. 07:41:21 It's been great since, eh, 2008 07:41:25 their upcoming 9.10 scares me ... too many bleeding edge things 07:41:34 no 07:41:36 potentially will regress a lot in functionality 07:41:39 they're just new 07:41:42 not buggy 07:41:50 well, the alphas are buggy ;-) 07:41:53 no shit 07:42:04 and they don't always fix everything before release, so ... 07:42:11 have you used 9.04? 07:42:16 yes 07:42:20 briefly 07:42:44 and I can't even install to a 1 GB flash drive because it's so bloated 07:42:56 not saying I'm so super surprised, but damn, very annoying 07:42:59 grr 07:43:06 Would you like them to recompress every image as a jpeg? 07:43:12 Every system sound? 07:43:23 do you want them to hyper-optimise every application binary they include? 07:43:25 no, I'm perfectly content with needing 30 GB just to rebuild everything (sarcasm) 07:43:35 Yes, because normal Ubuntu users rebuild everything. 07:43:55 I don't think "normal" applies to #esoteric ;-) 07:44:09 I hate people who want everything to run on ancient, crappy stuff; who want people to spend 80% of their work satisfying 20% of people who could easily upgrade 07:44:17 It's such a waste of talent 07:44:28 uh, no 07:44:35 I don't expect miracles 07:44:52 but when things could easily be fixed and certain people refuse (note I'm not talking about Ubuntu here), then that's annoying 07:45:16 they just don't care, which is more of a problem than anything technical 07:45:23 But you do want them to fit the whole Ubuntu desktop inside 1GB, which would take exorbitant amounts of work and maintenance that could be spent doing much more productive things. The end benefit of this is, uhh, you get to avoid paying a few more bucks for a bigger USB drive. 07:45:39 obviously I would install to HD, problem solved 07:45:57 the main issue isn't that, it's that they allow you to install to USB but it's more or less useless unless you never install anything ever 07:46:07 no it's not 07:46:23 I'm not just a "surf and e-mail" person, so I can't say that's enough for me 07:46:35 So buy a bigger USB stick 07:46:42 Shock, horror, extra features take extra space 07:46:57 extra features that I didn't ask for, that aren't needed, that should be easily removed (but probably aren't) 07:47:16 Oh, that's nice, let's just tailor Ubuntu to exactly what you want 07:47:22 [07:39] Rugxulo: […] everybody wants to kill everything that *they* don't use 07:47:24 Hmmmm 07:47:30 no (although there are a lot of Ubuntu forks, too many IMHO) 07:47:55 I can safely say that no, most Ubuntu features are useful. 07:48:04 And it's very well polished. 07:48:56 it's just not perfect 07:49:05 Shocking 07:49:06 and the idea that it does everything right isn't fair 07:49:18 then why did you just invent that idea 07:49:26 neither Windows nor Ubuntu can cater to everybody, but sometimes they don't even try to do simple things 07:49:39 I can assert things too... 07:50:20 so, dare I ask, you really expect 100% of home users (and OEMs) to only get 64-bit 4 GB RAM Ubuntu 9.10 computers from now on? I doubt it ... 07:50:23 -!- oklofok has joined. 07:51:03 I could tally up the number of strawman fallacies you've used so far but I'm kinda hoping to spend the rest of the day doing things 07:51:33 if it works for you, fine 07:57:24 and BTW, there really should be a Befunge interpreter in Elisp :-) 07:57:46 why 07:58:04 oops, must've missed that it already exists 07:58:15 but why 07:59:08 why? 'cause it's cool :-) 07:59:32 * Rugxulo is in Emacs now (ERC) 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:18 oh no, not another one of the "let's run a kernel, a scheduler, hardware drivers, ..., and then a woefully bad OS with only one hacky UI element and no task switching" people 08:05:20 ;-) 08:07:13 a windows, emacs and backwards compatibility lover 08:07:19 Rugxulo: could i, like, stab you? 08:07:21 :3 08:08:08 you could ... except the knife has been deprecated, use phase pistols (coming soon to a store near you) 08:12:20 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BefungeMode 08:12:36 had to comment out all the hscroll stuff, but otherwise it works great! :-) 08:14:38 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 08:14:58 -!- immibis has joined. 08:21:01 oh well, thanks for the (mostly) nice chat ;-) 08:21:25 0:1g:"$"-!#@_,1+" "00p 08:21:26 bye!$ 08:21:32 -!- Rugxulo has left (?). 08:23:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:23:23 -!- puzzlet has joined. 08:44:37 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:04:03 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 09:16:17 ehird: CCBI2 isn't out yet in any form, which is why the page doesn't link to it 09:16:25 Sure, but it's better :P 09:16:35 In some ways, yes 09:16:44 In other ways, it doesn't work at all :-P 09:29:30 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:30:00 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 09:30:01 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 09:30:32 -!- MigoMipo_ has changed nick to MigoMipo. 10:16:24 -!- adam_d has joined. 10:22:54 hi adam_d 10:23:13 -!- immibis has quit ("Not that there is anything wrong with that"). 10:23:38 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:25:47 hi 10:30:36 ^help 10:30:36 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 10:31:06 ^def stockintro ul (Who are you, where did you come from, how many goats have you sacrificed, etc? Also, http://esolangs.org/.) 10:31:06 Defined. 10:31:10 adam_d: 10:31:11 ^stockintro 10:31:14 oops 10:31:17 ^def stockintro ul (Who are you, where did you come from, how many goats have you sacrificed, etc? Also, http://esolangs.org/.)S 10:31:17 Defined. 10:31:19 adam_d: 10:31:21 ^stockintro 10:31:21 Who are you, where did you come from, how many goats have you sacrificed, etc? Also, http://esolangs.org/. 10:31:30 got tired of saying that all the time... 11:04:41 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:19:33 Nostalgia about Ubuntu 5.10. That's a new one for me... 11:19:43 'specially as I never got it working properly 11:25:43 Python is ubiquitous, CCBI has binaries, cfunge sucks <-- an opinion most people in here doesn't seem to share... 11:26:02 I was half-wondering how long it'd take for you to come and defend cfunge 11:26:24 But sure; if I was in a mood to debunk stupid arguments I'd mention that a lot of people like Windows too 11:26:29 but I won't 11:26:47 ehird, I just got home 11:27:52 ehird, even windows ME? 11:28:04 Did I say that? 11:28:06 Then why did you ask? 11:28:09 I see. 11:28:38 ehird, so you meant "windows (except windows ME)" there? 11:28:58 I wasn't aware that Windows referred to every single OS 11:29:07 version of it 11:29:14 ah ok. 11:29:15 Whenever anyone says "I use Windows" in future, I will commend them on their uber multiboot system 11:29:21 and ask them how they got windows 1.0 running. 11:30:30 ehird, yeah that would be tricky.... what with several versions of windows wanting to be on the first harddrive, and wanting to be on the primary partition marked as bootable 11:30:48 Why restrict ourselves chronologically backwards? 11:30:53 Ask them what Windows 3000 is like. 11:31:10 What about alternate universes? I don't see why we have to stay still in the fifth dimension, either. 11:31:41 ehird, by year 3000 I doubt microsoft still exists... ;P 11:31:59 Nintendo was founded in 1889 11:32:08 Admittedly they did card games and whorehouses and stuff before games 11:32:16 well, yes, but that is a difference of roughly 100 years, not 1000 years 11:32:26 Close enough 11:32:56 ehird, a difference by an order of magnitude I think? 11:33:03 Hmm, wait, they did hotels-in-which-to-have-sex, not necessarily hotels-where-you-can-get-sex. 11:33:14 This is clearly an important part of Nintendo's past businesses and must be clarified. 11:33:32 ehird, "bring your own whore"? 11:33:38 Yes! 11:34:51 * ehird reads the Arc forum a bit for the lulz 11:35:14 Hey, http://dabuttonfactory.com:8080/ is pretty cool. 11:35:24 It's... basically tryruby for arc :P 11:36:03 http://dabuttonfactory.com:8080/evsrv.arc And the code doesn't look shit, like all other Arc code out there. 11:36:16 This person is clearly some sort of mutant that can make the worst of languages work well. 11:37:58 Oh, I see, they traded in not being fucking weird and defensive for that power: 11:38:00 [[If you have chosen another username, OK, no problem (but I can't guess). If you've not tried it, your choice, but then I'll parse your request as "Gosh palsecam is such a moron, an REPL on the browser has no future[1], performance/privacy issue, blahblahblah, but I'll be glad to steal his code for another more useful purpose that I'll not communicate about". 11:38:00 I am, at least I hope, certainly wrong on my analysis, but sorry, that's how I read your message. And obviously, I don't like to be taken for a moron. And obviously, I don't like this kind of "stealing".]] 11:38:08 (in response to someone kindly asking for the code) 11:39:50 Wow, Arc's REPL works differently from its eval. 11:41:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:42:29 Jeez, reading this guy's comments is painful 11:42:38 that topic is depressingly close to my mood today 11:42:43 He swears an awful lot and he seems to be permanently... way too bothered about stuff 11:42:45 oerjan: wat 11:42:58 That sword alone can't stop, you know. 11:43:03 (fungot said it) 11:43:04 ehird: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered! 11:43:16 right 11:43:17 xD 11:43:37 ^style 11:43:37 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 11:43:45 chrono trigger 11:43:45 ^style ct 11:43:45 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 11:44:39 mind you that mood is greatly connected to the fact the neigbor has been using a chainsaw for hours... 11:46:11 ...on your mom! 11:46:15 something about deadness 11:46:18 even cruder joke 11:46:40 *oerjan something swatter -----### 11:46:41 i am crude like oil. 11:47:52 the kind that is not allowed at beaches 11:48:04 ahar! 11:48:06 it 11:48:14 `define ahar 11:48:16 * Ahar is a town and the capital of Ahar County in East Azarbaijan provience, Iran. The town is known on the market place for its Ahar rugs. \ [22]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahar \ 11:48:16 it offenheimer 11:48:22 \ 11:48:31 798uijkmarket place for its ahar rugs 11:48:53 "umm yeah, you flew, so what" 11:49:00 "it's not like you're a pizza or anything" 11:49:13 frisbizza! 11:49:19 frisbutt 11:49:23 wow i want one of them 11:49:36 it's a butt that you can fris 11:49:39 a very fris butt 11:50:04 oxymorons can't help it. they were born with a lack of oxygen 11:50:11 BADUM TISH! 11:50:55 you're retired 11:51:05 no, i never started 11:51:07 *your 11:51:53 ALL-complete :P 11:52:06 i doubt you can be ALL-complete, for cardinality reasons 11:52:26 oerjan: it's buddhists who are one with everyone 11:52:31 they don't have cardinals 11:52:35 sheesh you're stupid 11:52:44 you would have to find _one_ problem to which all others could be reduced - but then you could immediately use diagonalization to produce a counterexample, i think 11:53:15 It was a joke, you know 11:53:19 s/cardinality/diagonalization/ then 11:56:11 co-RE^n 11:56:20 that n could be an infinite ordinal, as well 11:56:45 I meant co-RE^n as meaning "equivalent to co-{RE^}*int for any integer" 11:56:57 well of course 11:57:30 but it's a small step to use ordinals. see brainhype/banana scheme 11:57:38 yeah 11:57:44 but mine is more... sensical 11:57:53 I mean, it doesn't require making any new concepts 11:58:01 just take the union of co-re, co-re^re, etc 11:58:39 in other words, co-re^omega. um wait. 11:58:49 should that be ^^ , or something 11:59:37 (not that i've seen ^^ mixed with oracle notation) 12:00:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:00:56 oerjan: yes, but ... 12:00:57 ugh 12:01:00 mathematically equivalent in the result 12:01:02 not in the definition 12:01:08 since you have to define exactly what that means for ^omega 12:02:11 true, but it's the obvious way if you know ordinals 12:02:58 oerjan: see, I'd expect co-re^omega to be something like "RE with an RE^omega oracle" 12:03:05 imo co-re^n expresses it better 12:03:08 since it's never infinite n 12:03:10 just arbitrary finite 12:03:15 unless it isn't 12:03:19 in which case ^omega is better, ofc 12:03:30 co- just means switching yes and no results 12:03:42 i know that 12:03:59 oerjan: ignore the co- 12:04:08 for the context of the above ↑ 12:04:11 ehird: except that still ought to be re^^n 12:04:16 true 12:04:20 I was using fuzzy notation 12:04:27 oerjan: but is it arbitrary-finite n or infinite n? 12:04:33 or are there two classes, one with each 12:04:49 well hm, co-RE^^omega has a self-oracle 12:04:58 and co-RE^^n would presumably just have a lesser-than-self oracle 12:06:54 oerjan: right? 12:06:55 you're not an oracle 12:07:02 your mom's an oracle 12:07:08 she is not an oracle 12:07:11 no one is an oracle 12:07:19 that's what she said 12:07:24 that's not what she said 12:07:27 she's not an oracle 12:07:29 so 12:07:31 i need to go now 12:07:33 she is 12:07:37 just came here to tell you that 12:07:40 oklofok: i found a magic 12:07:41 it's magical 12:07:42 !!!! 12:07:50 tell me mores? 12:08:42 ok 12:08:44 oklofok: chores 12:08:49 magic smores 12:08:52 were the magic 12:08:53 but it was tragic 12:08:57 and then the oracle flew 12:09:19 so you found the magic of insane poetry 12:10:26 ! -> 12:10:33 oklofok: yes!!!!!!!! 12:11:37 AnMaster: Anyway, it'll just be intricate music that does it. <-- i'll refuse to believe metal could do it, no matter how intricate. (see chainsaw above.) 12:12:01 oerjan: did you wait until oklofok left before saying that :D 12:12:09 no 12:12:16 although, technically yes 12:15:18 technically i didn't leave yet 12:15:32 oklofok: be angry at oerjan for dissing metal. 12:15:37 i think that is an oklofok thing to do 12:15:42 let's see context, i've been skipping on logreading 12:17:13 why is my food tasting funny today 12:17:24 oerjan: it's counteracting your bad puns 12:17:30 ah. 12:17:34 i agree with oerjan that metal probably doesn't make you smarter, kinda like mozart doesn't either. 12:17:35 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:17:50 oklofok: there's STUDIES! 12:17:53 okay one study. 12:17:54 :P 12:18:16 i'd use all my up-to-nine extra IQ points to dislike the mozart 12:18:18 i was mainly referring to the obvious fact that metal turns your brain into mush, although possibly only temporarily. 12:18:18 us mathematicians don't believe in studies 12:18:28 oerjan: i don't think that's true. 12:18:38 it's true for ME 12:18:49 well metaphorically, not physically. 12:18:53 oerjan: there is a rather obvious solution to that 12:19:42 yes, i _have_ occasionally been considering buying something ear plugs 12:19:52 i was meaning more "stop listening to it" 12:19:55 oerjan: you don't have to *start* with norwegian black metal 12:19:57 oh wait, was that chainsaw thing i joke 12:19:59 a joke 12:20:00 i mean 12:20:01 chainsaws 12:20:03 made out of metal? 12:20:04 even though you're norwegian 12:20:05 was that a pun 12:20:09 was it a pun joke oerjan 12:20:27 no, the chainsaw was real. fortunately it's stopped. for now. 12:20:34 was that the pun oerjan 12:20:44 but metal does have the same effect on me, more or less 12:20:53 but was the joke that chainsaws 12:20:55 are made out of metal 12:20:56 oerjan 12:20:59 no. 12:21:02 good. 12:21:07 if you had said yes, this would have been said: 12:21:08 i will kill you oerjan. 12:21:10 also burzum should be called white metal, since it's mostly white noise 12:21:19 at least the songs i have 12:21:21 you will do that anyway. it's destiny. 12:21:22 MY FAVOURITE METAL IS MERZBOW 12:21:32 note: not metal 12:21:54 i don't believe in merzbow 12:22:14 oklofok: lol i wikipedia'd burzum and the guy murdered his bandmate and then burned down a bunch of churches :D 12:22:25 yeah the story is awesome :D 12:22:37 sounds like a nice guy! 12:22:56 he just got out of jail this year 12:23:00 so i read 12:23:07 "© & ® Varg Vikernes. Do not reproduce, respect the copyrights." 12:23:19 you're expecting me to follow a trivial, bad law mister 12:23:25 do you see a bit of hypocrisy here :P 12:23:35 ehird: if not, he'll kill you. 12:23:41 [[A Scandinavian, for instance, has no good reasons to emotionally react negatively to "nazism"]] 12:23:51 Fun fact: You can only disagree with a philosophy if it has a specific aim against you 12:23:55 O_o 12:24:07 (He then goes on to talk about how nazis are cool or something) 12:24:17 :D 12:24:31 except that they OCCUPIED our country, or something 12:24:50 yes 12:24:55 he's saying that the occupiers were cool dudes 12:25:05 "also i like stealing clothes from orphans, then filming cp when they're naked" 12:25:11 -> 12:25:26 oklofok: that an actual quote? 12:25:33 Yes, oerjan. 12:25:35 Obviously. 12:25:35 :D 12:25:41 wait a sec 12:25:45 oklofok: oerjan is... AnMaster 12:25:48 ... 12:25:49 O_O 12:25:57 Omöjligt! 12:27:24 really............... -> 12:28:09 "For each devastated graveyard, one heathen grave is avenged, for each ten churches burnt to ashes, one heathen hof is avenged, for each ten priests or freemasons assassinated, one heathen is avenged" 12:28:22 this might sound weird but i think this guy is kind of a dick 12:29:16 At the arrest of Vikernes, the police found 150kg explosives and 3,000 rounds of ammunition in Vikernes' home.[28] According to Encyclopedia of White Power Vikernes has stated that these explosives were "intended to blow up Blitz House, the radical leftist and anarchist enclave in Oslo",[16] a plan which "was reportedly on the verge of execution"[16] and only prevented by Vikernes' arrest. 12:29:18 Admittedly they did card games and whorehouses and stuff before games <-- i was so delighted when i found out the first part was true, but i can find nothing about whorehouses 12:29:30 so he's a nazi who kills people who disagree with him in any wya 12:29:31 *way 12:29:35 oerjan: read on 12:29:42 "love hotels"; not whorehouses though 12:29:54 oklofok: oerjan is... AnMaster <-- why would you think so? 12:30:03 [12:25] oklofok: "also i like stealing clothes from orphans, then filming cp when they're naked" 12:30:03 ah. 12:30:04 [12:25] oklofok: -> 12:30:04 [12:25] oerjan: oklofok: that an actual quote? 12:30:30 ehird, it sounds more like something you would say IMO 12:30:37 except you would add an s 12:30:46 er, where 12:30:59 ehird, "that an" <-- guess 12:31:15 umm 12:31:17 what 12:31:19 or 's I guess 12:31:20 that doesn't even make sense 12:31:29 you're trying to assign "using 's or not after that" to a person 12:31:38 protip: linguistic patterns vary at such a low level 12:31:43 ehird, well not ' then. I get confused by that 12:32:14 yes, i could never be AnMaster 12:32:14 ehird, anyway... adding "is" there would have worked too 12:32:22 oerjan: lol [[Aarseth was a practitioner of theistic Satanism and also a proponent of violence, totalitarianism and state terrorism]] 12:32:26 oerjan, don't lie 12:32:27 probably not even if i tried 12:32:28 guess he didn't like it when it happened to him 12:33:18 "Satanism comes from religious Christianity, and there it shall stay. I'm a religious person and I will fight those who misuse His name. People are not supposed to believe in themselves and be individualists. They are supposed to OBEY, to be the SLAVES of religion." 12:33:21 these guys are hilarious 12:33:39 he liked stalin and mao :D 12:33:47 haha 12:33:49 and hated marx 12:34:23 "for instance, he was an ardent proponent of sodomy, rape and murder simply because they were evil acts" 12:34:27 (actual quote) 12:36:34 iirc vikernes' opinion is killing is a nice thing to do to another person... then again probably he just says anything that sounds gloomy and evil 12:36:44 because it's not very consistent with killing enemies 12:36:52 oklofok: he's totally jesus 12:36:54 "love thy enemy" 12:37:18 oklofok: so is this where you got your desire to kill someone :D 12:37:47 In October 2003, Vikernes failed to return to his low-security prison in Tønsberg, Norway after having been granted a short leave. He was found riding in a stolen Volvo car, which, according to the media, contained an unloaded AG3 automatic rifle, a handgun, numerous large knives, a gas mask, camouflage clothing, a laptop, a compass, a Global Positioning System, various maps and a fake passport (it is thought that Vikernes came to be in possession of this 12:37:48 equipment by means of a military barracks). For this thirteen months were added to his sentence, and he was then moved to a maximum-security prison in Trondheim. 12:37:59 he's dumb :D 12:38:03 i don't have such a desire, i just put it on my todo list! 12:38:13 xD 12:38:53 i like how this guy and the guy he killed are both guys who think killing and rape and violence and fascism are awesome 12:39:06 but the killer hates communists and religion 12:39:22 and the killee loves distorted communism and (distorted) religion 12:39:36 "I'm violent in a superior way to you RAAAAARGH" 12:40:29 * oerjan ascribes to the theory that bad people come in pairs, who hate each other 12:40:43 i wish i knew evil dudes 12:40:44 oerjan: I loooooooove AnMaster! 12:40:55 * ehird does not want to be bad 12:40:56 the worst is this hardcore metal guy who eats insects 12:41:10 i read "ehird does not want to go to bed" 12:41:15 oklofok: i don't think that's ... worse than killing someone :P 12:41:18 also, that's true. 12:41:33 I never claimed I hated ehird... 12:41:48 ehird: wait, are you staying up hideously late now? 12:42:00 oerjan: how late is hideously 12:42:03 ehird: worst i know, i don't know vikernes, or anyone like him 12:42:10 oklofok: ah 12:42:18 oklofok: i think that's probably the safest option. 12:42:28 but assuming not on his kill list, might be a fun guy to talk to 12:42:43 people like that generally aren't very intellectual 12:42:44 [[Vikernes also states that although he is a racist, he hates no-one and that "hatred is irrational"]] 12:42:52 oerjan: well? 12:43:02 assuming not a total retard, i imagine the insane killers are usually either very bright, or very dumb 12:43:06 ehird: i take that as a yes *evil cackle* 12:43:12 oerjan: tell me! 12:43:36 more than 24 hours since you last slept, perhaps 12:43:39 oklofok: i think he just starts with severely fucked up, contradictory axioms and works from there, perhaps even logically, though most likely mainly based on emotions 12:43:47 oerjan: usually, yes 12:43:59 oerjan: most common schedule has been sleeping from 1pm to about 7pm 12:44:05 or thereabouts, at least 12:44:07 quite variabl 12:44:08 e 12:44:13 oerjan: today I slept from 8pm to 4am 12:44:18 waking up from that was weird 12:44:30 "it's night!" "but i've slept eight hours" "umm it's pitch black" "am i meant to turn the light on and get up?" 12:44:36 oh right you're on one of those weird sleep thingies 12:44:40 no 12:44:43 not intentionally 12:44:49 cba to do that atm 12:45:06 oerjan: right now I'm on the schedule where i don't sleep until i feel too tired to do stuff alright. 12:45:15 and then sleep for however long i sleep 12:45:19 :D 12:45:35 it's quite nice 12:45:52 though due to me starting it off with a night where i slept at 6am, then progressing to 8am, it's skewed so that I'm mainly awake at night 12:46:03 though due to waking _up_ at 4am today, that might change a bit 12:46:38 i see you are on the verge of turning into me, then 12:46:44 oerjan: how do you sleep 12:46:49 poor poor ehird 12:46:55 what? 12:46:56 i'm enjoying it 12:47:02 it's much better than before 12:47:29 [[There are also two different reviews of this book available that are allegedly written by Varg Vikernes, one on www.burzum.org and one on www.burzum.com. Whereas the review on www.burzum.com is only mildly critical and states "The book is pretty much objective"[57], the review on www.burzum.org states: [bad stuff]]] 12:47:31 as long as oerjan owns me at category theory, i'd swap souls with him anytime 12:47:52 oklofok: but there is no such thing! 12:48:54 my sleep is constantly shifting forwards, always. how much varies unpredictably per day, 0-2 hours maybe except when i make an effort to stay up extra long 12:49:08 oerjan: so it wraps around all the time? :D 12:49:11 yes 12:49:11 ehird: doesn't mean "swapping souls" isn't a perfectly well-defined thing 12:49:35 oerjan: that just means that your schedule is defined by how long you stay up, instead of by when you sleep 12:49:42 add that to the fact that your body is used to sleeping N hours and voila 12:50:03 oklofok: well 12:50:17 oklofok: if you connected your brain to oerjan's body, then added some personality traits of his 12:50:17 sure 12:50:26 as well-defined as time-travel, movie rules apply. 12:50:31 and yes 12:50:32 that's the gist 12:50:34 see ya -> 12:50:35 but you'd just be oklofok with an annoyingly crippled body and some weird personality traits 12:50:51 (no offence to oerjan, but his body is obviously crippled due to being older than oklofok, pretty much by definition) 12:50:56 hehe 12:50:56 -> 12:50:57 -> 12:50:58 ö> 12:50:59 -> 12:51:00 -> 12:51:01 -> 12:51:02 -> 12:51:03 WHEE 12:51:04 ARROWS 12:51:05 <3 12:51:05 -> 12:51:08 3> 12:51:10 -> 12:51:11 -> 12:51:12 -> 12:51:55 ehird: oh i'll certainly admit to not being in the best shape 12:53:06 even if you were, tho 12:53:10 --------=> 12:53:14 :> 12:53:19 can i fly in that rocket :> 12:53:24 sometimes i fly around in space :> 12:53:28 sure, if you manage to climb in 12:53:33 okay :> 12:53:45 --------=>:> 12:53:48 ----------------=>:> 12:53:50 ------------------------=>:> 12:53:52 --------------------------------=>:> 12:53:53 ----------------------------------------=>:> 12:53:55 ------------------------------------------------=>:> 12:53:58 --------------------------------------------------------=>:> 12:53:59 ----------------------------------------------------------------=>:> 12:54:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------=>:> 12:54:07 i said _in_, not on top. i hope you have no troubles with thin air 12:54:13 ... 12:54:15 you broke my chain 12:54:18 welp gotta fly back up again 12:54:34 i was just trying to prevent you leaving the atmosphere unprotected 12:54:49 i already had 12:55:02 ah. 12:55:13 sec. 12:56:24 --------=>:> 12:56:27 ----------------=>:> 12:56:30 ------------------------=>:> 12:56:35 --------------------------------=>:> 12:56:39 ----------------------------------------=>:> 12:56:42 ------------------------------------------------=>:> 12:56:45 --------------------------------------------------------=>:> 12:56:48 ----------------------------------------------------------------=>:> 12:56:49 ----------------------------------------------------------------=>:> 12:56:53 --------------------------------------------------------=>:> 12:56:59 ------------------------------------------------=>:> 12:57:10 ----------------------------------------=>:> 12:57:19 --------------------------------=>:> 12:57:23 ------------------------=>:> 12:57:27 ----------------=>:> 12:57:30 --------=>:> 12:57:31 ------=>:> 12:57:33 -----=>:> 12:57:35 ----=>:> 12:57:36 ----=>:> 12:57:38 ---=>:> 12:57:39 ---=>:> 12:57:39 ---=>:> 12:57:41 --=>:> 12:57:42 --=>:> 12:57:42 --=>:> 12:57:43 --=>:> 12:57:45 -=>:> 12:57:46 -=>:> 12:57:48 -=>:> 12:57:50 -=>:> 12:57:52 -=>:> 12:57:54 |=>:> 12:57:56 | =>:> 12:57:58 |=>:> klunk 12:58:01 | =>:> 12:58:02 | =>:> 12:58:04 | =>:> 12:58:08 | >=>:> 12:58:12 |>=>:> klunk 12:58:16 >=>:> klunk 12:58:20 tsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssh 12:58:24 >=>:> 12:58:26 >=> 12:58:28 :> 12:58:29 :> 12:58:30 wait a moment i realized maybe you _are_ inside, but in that case you're not having a very good time 12:58:31 :> 12:58:32 :> 12:58:38 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:58:50 from this perspective my eyes are on the ground :> 12:58:55 oerjan: also, you interrupted it. 12:58:56 -!- oklofok has joined. 12:58:59 now i have to do it all again. 12:59:03 you were safely landed 12:59:08 no 12:59:09 noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 12:59:10 i was in the air. 12:59:14 oerjan: >:D 12:59:18 don't worry I won't :P 12:59:24 but it was good wasn't it? 12:59:27 whew 12:59:33 I especially like how I waited a little bit after the two peaks 12:59:40 sort of hyperbolic 12:59:44 :D 12:59:55 also, I like how it somehow slowed down as it started to land 13:00:00 maybe an anti-gravity landing platform 13:00:56 i don't know, not my platform 13:01:06 i didn't ask you :P 13:02:49 as i was about to say wrt your body, 13:03:08 oerjan: don't worry, I'll make sure I code you in as the first to get a mech body in the seed AI 13:03:23 you'll have to stand in line with everyone else to evaporate in the clouds though 13:03:25 I will only go so far 13:04:40 "evaporate in the clouds"? i think i may not be up to date on these technical AI eschatology terms 13:05:27 aka "relocate your mind to multiple redundant datacenters, dump any sort of body, and spend your days zooming around the cosmos looking at nebulas like in sci-fi films" 13:05:31 :P 13:06:00 i'm sure that would be boring eventually 13:06:08 oerjan: I may be joking! 13:06:17 although apart from the last bit that's the best outcome imo 13:06:18 which is probably why they started the earth simulation anyway 13:06:24 well 13:06:34 ofc i'd like to be in a physical body of some sort, but you can do that via virtual reality 13:06:39 which is, as a bonus, tweakable 13:06:48 and i guess it'd be fine to connect to a physical body every once in a while 13:07:24 we could roam the cosmos possessing primitive aliens 13:08:32 i don't think that would be very moral. 13:08:58 moral gets boring eventually 13:09:53 although I say this as someone who is currently possessing a 14 year old boy 23127 "Milky Way"/418871 "Sol System"/1 "Sol"/3 "Terra" homo sapiens sapiens body 13:10:03 naturally 13:25:29 hey! in an
    you can do
  1. 13:25:35 instead of a bunch of
      s 13:25:37 i never knew :\ 13:25:41 ↑ ignore those lines 13:31:55 yes, the world must not know this secret 13:50:39 -!- CESSMASTER has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:01:10 lol, a weblog entry with the slug /atom causes it to display an atom feed of that month 14:01:13 due to the weblog software 14:01:24 a little bit of fail there 14:01:44 especially since the weblog uses post summaries in the feed 14:01:48 and thus you can't read the post 14:11:10 Holy fuck. 14:11:24 Steve Ditko, co-creator and original artist of Spider-Man. 14:11:24 http://www.dinosaurgardens.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/avenging-world.pdf 14:11:26 A comic by him. 14:11:28 It is... wow. 14:11:31 Objectivist to the max. 14:11:33 Fucking... crazy. 14:11:41 I can't even read it, it's all over the place with vitrol. 14:11:56 It's uh, pretty freaky. 14:12:02 *It's, 14:12:16 "They're nigh-unreadable. I mean, I guess someone relishing re-reading a two-hundred page monologue might see some fun in them but, jesus, I still haven't gotten through a single one. " 14:12:19 sounds like ayn rand to me 14:13:05 lol - "With great power comes great responsibility to be a total self-interested jerk." 14:23:09 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 14:39:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 14:44:34 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 14:44:52 -!- cmeme has joined. 14:55:57 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:01:46 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 15:04:42 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:10:23 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 15:15:30 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 15:17:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:26:04 i don't want to spend more than a second on a square when i'm reading a comic 15:26:15 ...i guess that's mostly because i hate comics though 15:26:21 :D 15:26:26 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:27:14 actually i have to read a tex willer comic tonight 15:35:11 oklofok: tex will, er, mock this terrible joke 15:42:31 ! 15:42:36 ! 15:44:53 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃"). 15:45:19 -!- adam_d_ has joined. 15:48:46 -!- adam_d__ has joined. 15:49:04 -!- adam_d has quit (Nick collision from services.). 15:49:07 -!- adam_d__ has changed nick to adam_d. 15:56:34 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:02:06 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:05:52 -!- adam_d_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:12:29 -!- adam_d has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:14:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:19:47 -!- oklofog has joined. 16:20:02 oklofog: fog you, you fokking oklofo[kg] 16:31:58 -!- oklofog has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:32:06 -!- oklofog has joined. 16:36:41 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:39:32 -!- Asztal has joined. 17:06:51 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 17:12:49 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:15:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:17:44 -!- M0ny has joined. 17:18:34 plop 17:29:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:31:30 "Monster.Dildo.Cocks.XXX.DVDrip.XviD-GraceNotes" —reddit 17:31:43 GOT SOMETHING TO TELL US Gracenotes??? 17:32:25 people love my nickname, they use it for all their porn warez distributin' groups, I tell them no, but they insist 17:35:00 :D 17:44:03 "Monster dildo cocks" 17:44:04 ??? 17:44:18 Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? 17:44:23 Or are there monster dildos and cocks? 17:44:29 Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? 17:44:50 They are monster dildo cocks. 17:45:09 Also, 17:45:38 `addquote ??? Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? Or are there monster dildos and cocks? Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? 17:45:39 78| ??? Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? Or are there monster dildos and cocks? Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? 17:45:46 Pfffft :P 17:46:18 GREGOR HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE THINGS AND HE DESIRES ANSWERS 17:46:25 `quote 17:46:26 64| I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly 17:46:33 `quote 17:46:34 75|* ehird disables javascript 17:46:44 `quote 17:46:45 22|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. 17:47:28 `quote 17:47:28 67| Reality isn't a part of physics 17:47:54 Maybe one more! 17:47:55 `quote 17:47:56 75|* ehird disables javascript 17:47:58 ... 17:48:00 `quote 17:48:01 49| is there a problem with it being carbonized :D yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" 17:49:43 Aaaaaaaand one more 17:49:45 `quote 17:49:46 8| GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. 17:51:27 Hmm, looks like another ehird topic 17:51:55 Deewiant: Fungot topic, actually 17:52:07 Including the cut-off 17:52:09 But I set it, yes 17:52:26 Evidently 17:54:32 -!- Pthing has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:04:57 -!- M0ny has quit. 18:14:37 I wonder what Deewiant meant when e said that reality isn't a part of physics. 18:21:01 "15-inch OLED HDTV" 18:21:04 afhkdjsfkfg <3 18:26:04 -!- Pthing has joined. 19:04:11 [on anarchism] "So you advocate transferring power from democratically elected government-run armies to private armies?" 19:04:11 swing and a miss 19:28:42 -!- oklofog has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 19:45:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:47:05 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 19:52:06 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:53:52 Guess what 2*3+4 in J evaluates to 19:54:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 19:54:44 is it 14 19:55:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:55:04 yes 20:01:39 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:03:05 Warrigal: That's why we have logs, so that you can grep 20:05:49 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:27:05 * Sgeo enters the 5th dimension with J 20:32:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:32:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:37:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:37:45 -!- oklofok has joined. 20:47:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:06:47 I don't know what semantics would result in that being 14. 22:07:21 -!- SimonRC_ has changed nick to SimonRC. 22:07:42 Warrigal: not semantics, precedence 22:08:18 i assume J inherits from APL the collect-all-operators from the right principle 22:08:30 Oh, I missed the obvious. 22:08:46 The obvious way that could equal 14 is 2*(3+4). 22:09:01 The non-obvious way that could equal 14, which is what I saw, is 2+(3*4). 22:09:19 That looks like a sweet obfuscation for an esolang 22:09:28 hm nice coincidence 22:09:51 Before evaluating any expression, reverse the order of operators in it 22:09:53 Or something 22:11:18 Take the Fourier transform. 22:20:33 How TF is something that searches lists [or arrays or n-rank thingamabobies] related to something that makes a list of numbers??? 22:21:48 wut 22:22:16 context? 22:22:25 (For non-J programmers: i. is what you'd call a function. It can accept one or two arguments. If it's given one argument, it makes a list of numbers from 0 to its argument. If given two arguments, it finds where the second argument is listed in the first 22:22:37 (note: I didn't use J terminology) 22:22:38 oh 22:22:46 why should they be related? 22:23:02 Because they're both i. 22:23:21 Why put unrelated things together in the same verb (the J term for function) 22:23:36 because not everything divides neatly into pairs 22:23:53 but, i guess you could've done 4 i. 7 = 4 5 6 7 or something 22:24:03 that's at least somewhat useful 22:24:25 4 + i. 7 works just as well 22:24:33 For that, so it's not needed 22:24:57 not 4 + i. 3 ? 22:24:58 Not 4 + i. 3? 22:25:12 Deewiant: boo! 22:25:17 oob 22:25:46 Err, right 22:25:57 * Sgeo is half asleep. Not a good way to learn J 22:25:58 given the correction, it's far less nice 22:26:15 than 4 i. 7 22:36:25 * Sgeo vaguely hopes that posting an AskReddit style question in /r/programming is ok 22:39:29 Sgeo: i _think_ those are usually done as self posts, although only from what i've observed 22:39:54 (and since i have never registered, i don't know how to do it anyhow) 22:57:20 Why are forks easier to understand than hooks? 22:58:27 well it's rather difficult to eat with hooks, in general 23:10:57 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 23:41:08 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:45:57 * Sgeo re-shapes oerjan 23:49:22 ouch! 23:51:10 Indexing is complicated 23:51:24 < 2 2 $ oerjan 23:52:16 * oerjan does not recognize the language 23:53:06 J 23:53:18 Reshapes you into a 2x2 array, and puts you in a box 23:56:01 eek 23:59:06 Hm 23:59:21 '-' when the mem is 0 is undefined in BF, right?