< 1249084800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's almost certainly possible to stop it doing that < 1249084803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl only pollutes (n). < 1249084810 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, and 'man x' searches (n) < 1249084813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, cpan puts everything in section 3perl < 1249084821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as ehird says, that's not particularly useful < 1249084824 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to learn how to read analog clocks by setting his Mac's menubar clock to it < 1249084831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear_my_inner_ra: What, would you prefer for there not to be man pages of it? < 1249084832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: use a decimal clock < 1249084839 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nothx :P < 1249084839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented a decimal clock applet for windows ages ago < 1249084844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, it's about 0 right now < 1249084847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over here < 1249084853 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe i'll try swatch time < 1249084865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decimal time's like that but with two more decimal places < 1249084870 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about @0 < 1249084874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and local time, rather than UTC+1 for no apparent reason < 1249084894 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, swatch time is utc < 1249084899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's UTC+1 < 1249084902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it being @0 around now < 1249084906 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249084910 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's due to where it's based < 1249084912 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't really acre < 1249084913 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :care < 1249084913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249084917 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one hour makes little difference < 1249084923 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, since 1 beat = 1 minute and 26.4 seconds, I don't feel the need for more precision < 1249084931 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, it only works if you're near that timezone < 1249084945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 = about 15 minutes, which is more generally useful < 1249084948 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, saying "oh, it's @200, happy midnight" is very unnatural < 1249084951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I tend to think in units of about 15 minutes < 1249084960 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to micromanage time. < 1249084966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well it's @0, which is only midnight because we're in summertime atm < 1249084977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about @1 or @2 now, I suppose < 1249084984 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249084987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, saying "happy midnight" is unnatural no matter what the circumstances < 1249084992 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, if you have the analog clock in os x, you can't get the digital time in the menu < 1249085003 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true, the term usually used is "happy today" < 1249085014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you trolling? < 1249085015 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite that not making any sense < 1249085022 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, that's actually what I and friends say. < 1249085027 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a habit < 1249085034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over here I mostly hear "it's tomorrow" < 1249085042 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that makes even less sense! < 1249085046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Please only change one character at a time in this topic. Also, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. < 1249085048 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"happy today" might just be saying, hey, it's today, that's cool < 1249085056 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it makes marginally more sense < 1249085093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Please only chance one word at a time in this topic. Also, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. < 1249085102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Please only chance one character at a time in this topic. Also, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. < 1249085107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1249085114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ahem* < 1249085249 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you a Gmail user, or do you have friends who are? Do you resent the "Sponsored Link" advertisements that come up next to the incoming mail? Now you and your friends can do something about it! < 1249085249 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The solution is simple, when sending an email to a gmail user include a sentence or two that mentions catastrophic events or tragedies. Google does not use humans to read your email, only computers. These computers search for keywords that trigger the advertisements, however, if they hapen to find a catastrophic event or tragedy Google errs on the side of good taste and removes the ads altogether. < 1249085249 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may want to make mention of what you are doing so the recipient is not alarmed by your sudden Tourette's-like outburst. You can link to this site by way of explanation if need be. < 1249085252 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage.mac.com/joester5/art/gmail.html < 1249085276 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :PS. Suicide death 9/11 murder http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249085284 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The link to our logs is considered sensitive by gmail. True fact. < 1249085297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :ehird was banned from this topic due to violating the topic rules. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. < 1249085339 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :ehird ~~ BANNED ~~ AVATAR! ~~ This COOKIE tastes like VIOLENCE! ~~ Posts: 34,383 ~~ Joined: Jan 2001 ~~ Signature: check out my great forum: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249085352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ceci n'est pas un topic. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. < 1249085352 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forums! They're like crap but worse. < 1249085367 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ceci n'est pas valid French. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249085392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249085395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I like that topic < 1249085412 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249085412 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magritte would be proud < 1249085418 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1249085444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too clever by halph < 1249086433 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so's your mom < 1249086604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"no apparent reason" < 1249087116 0 :dear_my_inner_ra!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249088513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is vaguely in the mood to fiddle with little-used OSes < 1249088534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If MachTen were gratis, I'd be fiddling with that. < 1249090047 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249090047 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249093985 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249094982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249095295 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249096878 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249097224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249098323 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249098771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249099821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249100019 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249100455 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249101321 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-168-223.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1249101781 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-74-103-160-247.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249101791 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249103602 0 :centrinia!n=exc@adsl-219-42-109.asm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249103933 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249106471 0 :centrinia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1249107715 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249107760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1249109881 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249113599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249113600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249117572 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249117750 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249125802 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249126412 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host81-129-119-199.range81-129.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249127166 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-45.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249127470 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249128844 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249129389 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host81-129-119-199.range81-129.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249129483 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249130239 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249130653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zoop. < 1249131178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy mailman mailing list reminders day < 1249131429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, guys < 1249131435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found precedent that we're using the wrong name for that < 1249131456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://quotes.burntelectrons.org/437 came before http://quotes.burntelectrons.org/1226, so we must assume the former is the original (especially since that's Hixie's kind of joke) < 1249131462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be < 1249131470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy mailman mailing list memberships reminders day < 1249131470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1249131478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy australian mailman mailing list memberships reminders day < 1249131484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMMLMRD < 1249131606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More fucking particles, really, science? You know what? < 1249131606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you. I'm not even trying to understand it, now." < 1249131606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://io9.com/5327313/meet-two-new-quantum-particles-spinons-and-holons < 1249132531 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249134052 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Gravity/w/ <-- Delety < 1249134129 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you protect a non-existant page from being created, with mediawiki? < 1249134220 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249134252 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That talk page could probably make use of it < 1249135008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: you can? < 1249135042 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that wikis have a lot of non-existant pages blocked from creation < 1249135184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki admins: please delete this bullshit http://esolangs.org/wiki/Compute < 1249135191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even funny any more < 1249135199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely tired of shit like that < 1249135280 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E < 1249135281 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S < 1249135282 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M < 1249135283 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E < 1249135297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh http://4mhz.de/ < 1249135298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(21 Jul 2009) Some days ago, I received a voucher copy of c't extra Programmieren 02/09, a special issue of c't (a German IT magazine). They published Brainfuck Developer on DVD. In the article, there's even a screenshot ;) It's nice to see the work you've done recognized. < 1249135325 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they stole his program? :o < 1249135442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying digital information isn't stealing < 1249135510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/More ← needs more has-been-deletedness < 1249135517 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no MPAA people, you know what I < 1249135519 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean! < 1249135530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: no, because stealing implies a bad thing < 1249135547 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mostly asking if they asked him first < 1249135556 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, it is a bad thing. < 1249135619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying digital information is not a bad thing. < 1249135661 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to read that article now < 1249135670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to read YOUR MOM < 1249135688 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_> < 1249135908 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249136046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: <<_Xo < 1249137545 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if they make profit from it :o < 1249137947 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@ti211310a341-2220.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249137985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: you're wrong :p < 1249138028 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But being wrong is right < 1249138037 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then you're good again < 1249138042 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the evilest thing of all! < 1249138087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1249138225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sites.google.com/site/yacoset/Home/physics-for-programmers < 1249138267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Now this is a story all about how my viewpoint flipped-turned upside down, and I'd like to take a minute, just sit right there, I'll tell you how I became a fan of our friend X M L. < 1249138268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In North Mopac Boulevard, castin rays, on the PC is where I spent most of my days. Chillin out, haxin, refraxin all cool, I was shootin some photons through a polybool. Then a couple of rays who were up to no good, started causing errors in their neighborhood. I wrote one little script and Maya got scared, she said "You're usin up all the memory IRIX can spare!"]] < 1249138274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/96dg0/nobody_who_uses_xml_knows_what_they_are_doing/c0bky64 < 1249138369 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of generalizing physics to the actual generation of code isnt actually that farfetched in some ways, i think the connections between information theory, physics, and computational systems are well established now < 1249138414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i think you overestimate the seriousness < 1249138455 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, i just like looking for the elements of truth that are what makes humor funny, i think - because these principles are actually pretty factual < 1249138475 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance: < 1249138484 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. A gas will always expand to fill the volume of its container < 1249138485 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All possible race conditions shall happen at some point in the life of a program. < 1249138502 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is basically 'spot on' - because both are entirely about the stochastic exploration of a state space < 1249138502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you're kooky :D < 1249138506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fun < 1249138565 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: be careful, i might get started on W.H. Zurek and the implications of his work, and then everyone will be sorry they asked < 1249138583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we're not going to ask! < 1249138595 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, hes not some crank, hes one of the world's most respected theoreticians of quantum physics < 1249138600 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are smart < 1249138646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your are smart. < 1249138686 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8177285.stm < 1249138688 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teehee < 1249138701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: You should talk to Slereah_, he works on the LHC or something. < 1249138705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could get him to collide programs. < 1249138707 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what would be my fine < 1249138724 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The judge would be like ONE TRILLION DOLLARS < 1249138778 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: you do fundamental physics work? < 1249138799 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1249138805 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, internship right now < 1249138810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a physics fundamentalist < 1249138810 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still doing my master < 1249138825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOU SHALT HAVE NO ELEMENTARY PARTICLES APART FROM QUARKS < 1249138871 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: cool, i know its a big field, but have you checked out W.H. Zurek's work on what he calls 'quantum darwinism' - basically a much extended attack on the quantum measurement problem that extends the decoherence paradigm significantly? < 1249138879 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1249138896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249138906 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its really awesome work, imo, although i have to take a fair amount of the mathematical foundation 'on faith' - but its all peer reviewed and seems very solid, decades of work < 1249138940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a get a fun argument going < 1249138946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: Copenhagen or MWI?! < 1249138949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Copenhagen or MWI?! < 1249138955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i'ma, of course < 1249138980 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: zurek's quantum darwinism, it settles these questions definitively imo - it descends from MWI style thinking but is really quite different < 1249138993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name itself makes me suspicious. < 1249138995 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: want me to summarize? < 1249139006 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah i know it sounds like a lame neologism, im not sure he should ahve picked it < 1249139017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can summarise if you wish < 1249139019 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but it makes sense in a way after the concept is explained < 1249139020 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehe < 1249139045 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in short, zurek's work is based on very careful and detailed study of how information is transferred between systems at the quantum level < 1249139046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently, though I'm physicstarded, I'm an MWI-er < 1249139066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you might want to dumb it down a bit btw :P < 1249139069 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a 'measurement' to happen - for us to perceive the world - information has to be transmitted through a large series of interactions < 1249139072 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1249139078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1249139078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249139117 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what zurek shows (mostly by pure mathematical manipulation of the fundamental, well tested equations of qed) is that the transmission of information between systems at the quantum level has very definite tendencies < 1249139132 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of the famous 'schrodingers cat' experiment, you can summarize it as this: < 1249139136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the name of QED < 1249139138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so assertive < 1249139141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you argue with QED?! < 1249139166 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason you never see a half-alive, half-dead cat is that there are rules that determine the kind of information that can be successfully transmitted into the future < 1249139176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Hey, man, don't make assumptions about what I never see. < 1249139195 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that quantum states that are 'nonsensical' simply do not make 'copies' of themselves in the form of transmitting information forward in time < 1249139208 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps they 'happen', but that information can never reach our sense perceptions < 1249139214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not seeing how this really relates to MWI like you said < 1249139229 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because our perceiving an event in the world means that our particles have become part of an entangled quantum state < 1249139238 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because the idea is that just like in many world interpretation, 'everything happens' < 1249139258 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unlike MWI, zurek has mathematically studied the dynamics of how information moves between the states and how it goes forward in time < 1249139274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're saying that everything happens in _one_ universe or sth? < 1249139278 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rather than a 'branching' universe, you have a universe that represents the *fittest* collection of information < 1249139281 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes! < 1249139282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't really making any sense to me and I don't see how it relates to darwin at all :P < 1249139292 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything happens in our universe - but we only perceive the 'fittest' information < 1249139293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: doesn't occam's razor apply a bit here? < 1249139298 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because only that information is of the form to transmit itself into the future < 1249139303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does zurek achieve that mwi doesn't < 1249139308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as mwi certainly seems simpler < 1249139311 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematical meaningfulness mostly < 1249139320 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he makes many more predictions and statemnts and the analysis is vastly more fine grained < 1249139329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is zurek compatible with mwi? < 1249139331 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MWI is basically a philosophical idea - zurek's work is really hard math < 1249139334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, does it contradict any part of mwi? < 1249139341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: there have been plenty papers published on mwi /shrug < 1249139348 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1249139356 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zurek descends from wheeler's tradition in this < 1249139372 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he absolutely bases his work on the same principle, of taking what the actual structure of the quantum equations say 'seriously' < 1249139384 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here im gonna linke the massive and awesome summary paper that was in Nature recently, the arxiv version < 1249139388 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can judge for yourself < 1249139400 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this represents a summary of decades of well respected, peer reviewed, mainstream work < 1249139406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain will probably leak out i'm afraid < 1249139436 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/pdf/0903.5082 < 1249139509 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really think the quality of the work as pure physics/math is superlative, and that the philosophical implications are absolutely staggering < 1249139528 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more so than MWI actually < 1249139548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To bypass these obstacles Bohr [1] followed Alexander < 1249139548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Great’s example: Rather than try disentangling the < 1249139548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gordian Knot at the beginning of his conquest, he cut < 1249139548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it. < 1249139548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ am i the only one who hates such crappy analogies? < 1249139555 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh. < 1249139568 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that is an excellent analogy, but it is also completely irrelevant < 1249139577 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pure literary style, nothing to do with the content of the research or its claims < 1249139587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shush you i'm allowed to complain about it if i want :) < 1249139596 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i aint quashing no free speech < 1249139610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the evil cabal of fizzie and lament are. < 1249139614 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION summons his black helicopters of physics interpretation censorship < 1249139617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for definitions of are equal to would if they did. < 1249139788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: well i'm sure i'll read that paper sometime in my life… like perhaps when I think it won't totally go over my head. < 1249139790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I certainly rule the channel with an IRON FIST, no-one can deny that. < 1249139822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Every time you talk I quiver in my boots! < 1249139824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have boots. < 1249139849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On re-reading my second last line, I read it as "boobs". < 1249139855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freud would have a field day. < 1249139878 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, the idea that the universe we perceive == the subset of the total of all quantum states that possess information dynamics corresponding to a 'universe that makes sense' is the idea < 1249139895 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Zurek shows imo convincingly this is a simple and strict consequence of the base equations themselves < 1249139918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be talking about it like it's objective < 1249139923 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it is < 1249139925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt it's that clear-cut, as in a logical consequence < 1249139954 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe zurek has succeeded in mathematically deriving an information-theoretic fundamental ontology of the universe from the most experimentally well confirmed physical theory we have < 1249139983 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so - and i know this is a fucking nuts claim that scientists would back away from - i think science has now solved the class8ic ontological problems of philosophy to a large extent < 1249139986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was truly an objective, formal logic consequence, I'd have almost certainly heard about it due to it being huge. < 1249140007 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-7-202.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249140010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Litmus test: if you go on about the man oppressing the fundamental nature of the universe now, you're a quack. :P) < 1249140026 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, the thing is that the quantum measurement problem is not regarded as 'sexy' necessarily by the physics community, string theory has been regarded more as where its at, and cosmological issues < 1249140044 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think there is a lot of contingent historical circumstance that means the full significance isnt really understood < 1249140052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? All I've heard about string theory points it to being a fringe theory that no serious physicist believes due to it being undisprovable. < 1249140055 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but zurek is not a quack, study his biography and his positions < 1249140059 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: exactly!! < 1249140068 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but that is only a very recent and 'popular' opinion < 1249140077 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most of the past 20 years, string theory was what most people worked on < 1249140081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. < 1249140083 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :following andrew witten extensively < 1249140106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to believe, really. < 1249140110 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and really most working physicists came to believe that the quantum measurement problem was either not important, or already satisfactorily solved < 1249140115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, working on something undisprovable? < 1249140122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well develop a theory of invisible pink unicorns. < 1249140145 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as i say zurek's work is far from obscure, - it is the mainstream of modern work on QED, and not challenged by anyone so far as i know < 1249140162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Isn't the copenhagen interpretation the standard fare? < 1249140172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the impression I've had, at least < 1249140184 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so much any more, the decoherent paradigm really has taken over i think < 1249140190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1249140206 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think reading at the semi-popular level is likely to convey a somewhat misleading impression < 1249140270 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not a degree- carrying researcher, but ive made a serious effort to move from a 'laymans' understanding to a true technical level and follow the current research directly - and the real state of the community opinion isnt really captured well by the standard summaries of the ideas on quantum measurement < 1249140314 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is that people like the 'narrative' of quantum mechanics being all spooky/crazy/not understood < 1249140345 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats still the dominant trope of whatever popular discourse there tends to be, so the fact that a rather technical and detailed analysis of the theory has shown its not actually like that has just not made a huge impression on the world < 1249140441 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the fact is that the average 'educated, intelligent, rational person' is still using a set of conceptual tools that basically encodes the euclidean/newtonian analytic framework < 1249140445 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at best! < 1249140522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249140540 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249140545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1249140631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249140720 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: btw, in re: string theory - the motivations of the string theory researchers actually do make a lot of sense fundaemntally, even though a lot of people now think that approach wont really get us anwywhere < 1249140747 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our current best physical theories all have the fundamental mathematical fact in common of being strongly related to symmetry groups < 1249140773 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a very important theorem called noether's theorem that connects symmetries to conservation laws, as a consequence < 1249140788 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the string theorists idea is to hunt for more symmetries, basically < 1249140802 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mathematics of string theory is amazing, from a group-theoretical symmetry perspective < 1249140815 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is why it was very appealing as a source for mathematical ideas for physics < 1249140840 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, much incredibly important research *has* been done by string theory - but it has turned out to be 'pure math' more than physics < 1249140846 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres nothing wrong with pure math though < 1249140870 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people get irritated when purely theoretical mathematical structures with no discrernable connection to reality start claiming to be the fundamental building blocks of everything ;) < 1249140881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foop doop < 1249140906 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i being tiresome? < 1249141127 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "making sense" mean < 1249141158 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: mispelled double antonym of 'losing dollars' ? < 1249141181 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plausibly, but I doubt the world is quite ready for a theory unifying finance and fundamental physics < 1249141200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: I'm not sure, I think it makes dollars and sense < 1249141217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: not tiresome, i'm just bored of that subject now ;) < 1249141222 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: actually, i honestly think we are - i think for instance Wolfram and others have good theories about general mathematical rules for complex dynamic systems < 1249141226 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm not < 1249141232 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: may i interest you in some plan9 from bell labs>? < 1249141239 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah well, Wolfram is his own worst enemy in that respect < 1249141243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i already like plan 9 :P < 1249141258 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't have good theories, he has *expansive* theories < 1249141272 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he tells you they're good enough times < 1249141296 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: hm but he also does real research and publishes stuff and makes tools, does he not? so i dont think it can be said to be purely hot air < 1249141309 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the people he *hires* does real research and publishes stuff < 1249141311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram's theories tend to be rather vague and use brute-forcing to fill in the details < 1249141322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite interesting for small-scale things, but I don't think it scales up < 1249141322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BUT THE UNIVERSAL 2,3 TURING MACHINE < 1249141326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DID IT, DON'T YOU _BELIEVE_?! < 1249141331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, it was found via brute force < 1249141334 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, doesnt the universe itself 'brute force' itself a lot? < 1249141340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's you— er, his— most important result of the CENTURY! < 1249141345 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finding something through brute force isn't the problem < 1249141349 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the four colour problem was brute forced < 1249141351 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PROBLEM < 1249141361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: oh, yes; it certainly works in theory, just it tends not to work for really big things because it takes a prohibitively long time < 1249141364 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that Wolfram goes off with the principle of computational bollocks or whatever it was < 1249141374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249141384 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not even philosophically well placed < 1249141391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((ais523 won the Wolfram Prize for the 2,3 turing machine thingy)) < 1249141398 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1249141399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((to give context to my jokes))) < 1249141403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: yuh: http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/ < 1249141422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: I think it's an attempt to generalise the Church-Turing thesis, possibly doomed to failure because nobody agrees on how to state the original thesis in the first place < 1249141429 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1249141431 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I mean. < 1249141443 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very emotionally appealing idea < 1249141454 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, im seriously star struck to be in the presence of people who do the work that i regard as incredibly importnat < 1249141459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249141461 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION asks for autograph, seriously < 1249141470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: it's a bit hard over the internet < 1249141473 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION IM NOT WORTHIES < 1249141475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should become a celebrity < 1249141476 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1249141482 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about a handjob? < 1249141482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've got a better claim to fame than paris hilton! < 1249141482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall I digitally sign a document and send it to you? < 1249141493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1249141498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :digital autographs are the things in the future < 1249141514 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested in < 1249141515 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249141519 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd *like* to be interested in < 1249141532 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it's even an actual thing yet < 1249141571 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of built-up computational discipline about biological systems < 1249141580 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's part of natural computation, sure < 1249141615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i note that over time this channel gradually transforms from an esolang channel to just plain esoteric < 1249141628 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in the broad sense the discovery of DNA was really just that, wasnt it? < 1249141636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... what sort of thing do you normally write in autographs? < 1249141637 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the mapping of DNA == source code for biology is pretty strict < 1249141642 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaahhhh sort of, the whole molecular biology thing < 1249141652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: except that there seems to be lots of side-channel information too < 1249141661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Alex Smith", I suppose < 1249141662 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's no real basis for a theoretical view of it < 1249141664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: use M-x artist-mode < 1249141665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the DNA doesn't encode everything, even though in theory they could < 1249141670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it all signature-looking! < 1249141672 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all either been elucidation of the precise mechanisms < 1249141676 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah that kind of generalization is really sloppy, im not claiming that as 'fact', but i think as maps and metaphors go, its amazingly strong < 1249141686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought autographs were addressed to someone in particular < 1249141699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think that's mostly via implied ownership of the item in question. < 1249141700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, it's the digital sig that would contain my name, just like traditional analog sigs are where you put your name < 1249141718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I know what I could send < 1249141721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make a file with 24 lines of 80 spaces, then < 1249141722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sign that < 1249141722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a digitally signed INTERCAL addition < 1249141725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a blank piece of paper < 1249141726 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe we now know that cells are not so much a single centrally organized thing but in fact a kind of ecosystem all in their own, with independently evolved structures, right? < 1249141734 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah sorta < 1249141736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: trippy < 1249141742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo dawg i heard you like ecosystems so etc < 1249141744 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a kind of complex flow of information and processes between viruses, dna/rna, mitochondria, etc < 1249141744 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can go dumb with it < 1249141801 0 :Lim!n=abdoulli@41.207.201.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249141814 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :information theory is obviously fundamental to life just because maintaining low entropy is key to the definition < 1249141823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Lim < 1249141829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who/what/where brought you here < 1249141832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/when < 1249141841 0 :Lim!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1249141854 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see the theory getting going until people start to properly engineer genomes < 1249141859 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're just starting to now < 1249141883 0 :Lim!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can speak in french ? < 1249141891 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other problem is that the point of computer science is that it's so general < 1249141921 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was going to put a bet on where we might get a truly amazing fundamental breakthrough - if we could 'crack the neural code' of whats going on in the brain in an analogous way to our current tracing of genetics... < 1249141922 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the architecture isn't frightfully important, so whether you can do anything on a particularly deep level *specifically* about biological computation is doubtful < 1249141926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lim: can you? < 1249141930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we might not understand you though < 1249141933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1514846 < 1249141937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go, a digital autograph < 1249141940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: Engineering genomes has gotten started. < 1249141943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing expires in 15 minutes, be sure to save a copy < 1249141944 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249141947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images < 1249141950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what the topic references < 1249141954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a french channel :P < 1249141958 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249141961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi impomatic < 1249141962 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1249141972 0 :Lim!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1249141974 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thank you! < 1249141976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!translateto Lim: what channel did you expect this to be? < 1249141977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1249141979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!translateto fr Lim: what channel did you expect this to be? < 1249141984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!translatefromto en fr Lim: what channel did you expect this to be? < 1249141986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard about it at USENIX in 2008; there was a freaking genetic programming language they had devised and were using to modify bacteria. < 1249141991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249141993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en fr Lim: what channel did you expect this to be? < 1249141996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that an EgoBot or HackEgo feature? < 1249141998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1249142002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto fr Lim: what channel did you expect this to be? < 1249142004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEGo isn't here < 1249142004 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had not heard of an actual programming language < 1249142007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1249142008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might explain why it isn't working < 1249142010 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what that would imply :| < 1249142012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`join < 1249142017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity, doesn't work... < 1249142022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lim: qu'est-ce que vous pensez que cette chaîne était d'environ? < 1249142033 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't mean the iGEM parts, do you? < 1249142042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: run through an online translator? < 1249142046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yuhuh :) < 1249142049 0 :Lim!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :je me suis dit qu'on parle d'esoterisme ici < 1249142070 0 :Lim!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :et je suis venu voir < 1249142086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lim: bizarre ( «ésotériques»), les langages de programmation, en fait. mais nous sommes surtout hors sujet! < 1249142102 0 :Lim!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1249142117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Lim was probably referring to the topic < 1249142117 0 :Lim!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ici on parle de programmation !! < 1249142126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249142127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qui a dit que Google Translate ne fonctionne pas? < 1249142128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agreed < 1249142133 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un patois < 1249142134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lim: :-) < 1249142154 0 :Lim!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1249142166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This is not valable Anglais. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249142203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the second most spoken language is here < 1249142205 0 :Lim!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok byr < 1249142213 0 :Lim!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249142214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Korean? there certainly used to be quite a few Koreans here < 1249142220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish. < 1249142223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc < 1249142241 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has #esoteric officially switched languages? < 1249142249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Just to talk to someone ;-) < 1249142260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Deewiant, fizzie, Ilari, ineiros < 1249142265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be more finns hanging around < 1249142271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: nah, it was a one-off joke < 1249142271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^there < 1249142281 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finns are everywhere :|| < 1249142286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but fungot doesn't have a "there" command < 1249142286 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course. to connect to ports and send things how it pleases < 1249142294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, maybe it does < 1249142298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249142300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a generic command, though < 1249142302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Je pense que nous devrions tous nous parler par l'intermédiaire de Google Translate, raison: il est fun. < 1249142309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would explain why you gave it without arguments < 1249142326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: intercal needs a command like that < 1249142329 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can anyone output the string "Hello Reddit!" in Brainfuck with a program less than 113 characters < 1249142331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connects to a random machine on a random port and sends random data < 1249142335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think CLC-INTERCAL has one, pretty much < 1249142335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello Reddit! < 1249142342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no way that that will win < 1249142345 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :117 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<++++++++++.>----------.-..+++++.+++++++++++.>+.>. [729] < 1249142346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf_txtgen is rather inefficient < 1249142349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :117 < 1249142351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough < 1249142352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, that was impressive < 1249142359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :improve to taste < 1249142374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249142376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, we should be able to optimise that down 5 times < 1249142380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*5 chars < 1249142384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1249142398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twitfuck: a Brainfuck program under 140 characters that does something fun. < 1249142411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen AAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1249142413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The uncomfortable double-meaning as cybersex over Twitter is welcomed. < 1249142414 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 +++++[>+++++++++++++>++>><<<<-]>..............>. [756] < 1249142423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, it adds a final newline < 1249142431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just removing that would shorten the program < 1249142443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get rid of the >+< in the loop and the >. at the end < 1249142447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that cheating, though? < 1249142453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deutsch, als von Natur aus komisch Sprache, ist die neue Sprache für die Übersetzung meiner Dummheit. < 1249142467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Hello Reddit!" doesn't end with \n :P < 1249142468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: do you require a final newline? < 1249142482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol google translate roundtripped silliness as stupidity < 1249142492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<++++++++++.>----------.-..+++++.+++++++++++.>+. < 1249142492 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello Reddit! < 1249142505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :112 characters, if I counted correctly < 1249142524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d",strlen("++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<++++++++++.>----------.-..+++++.+++++++++++.>+.")) < 1249142532 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :112 < 1249142538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that took longer to compile than I expected < 1249142556 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't include a newline in mine, so that beats the one I just posted: http://tr.im/v3ER < 1249142598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel embarasses people; you ask a hard question, and the bots give you an answer to it in a few seconds < 1249142613 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1249142622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're at the forefront of the singularity! :p < 1249142627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon, we'll just replace ourselves with bots < 1249142633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, the humans don't contribute all that much to the channel < 1249142654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: your Underload suggestion is pretty short < 1249142721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should respond to the person who posted that awful BF with the bot's nice semi-optimised BF, though < 1249142734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a competent human could beat it, but I'm not sure if any would be bothered < 1249142740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I notice dbc is here...) < 1249142747 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249142749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and he's /very/ good at BF golfing) < 1249142752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: Well, it was more "programming-esque", in that it was a textual way of composing small blocks of genes with specific functioning together. < 1249142760 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I responded with a hand written 113 instruction BF < 1249142771 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think ive fallen into a parallel universe, i did not realize there were places where issues like 'brainfuck code quality' were actually of community interest :) < 1249142772 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they're called codons < 1249142776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dbc is amazing at all golfing < 1249142776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/siersig.c < 1249142779 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a cite for them or something? < 1249142779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: the response doesn't seem to have shown up < 1249142787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only entry to my chaos game method sierpinski golf in C :) < 1249142801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: BF code quality is done as a competitive sport, because there's no other reason to do it < 1249142809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: parallel universe? doesn't that contradict QUANTUM DARWINISM? < 1249142819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEEEEEEEEEEEEERVED < 1249142820 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1249142824 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my first thought < 1249142826 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speciation < 1249142839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll speci your ation. < 1249142844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: No, it was a speech that I saw. And it was awesome. < 1249142856 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity < 1249142861 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to the extent i or people i knew preiously messed with brainfuck, just getting it to do anything was considered the 'badge of achievement' < 1249142868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1249142885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: But that's not even all that hard! < 1249142887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1249142887 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble < 1249142891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, we still have choo here < 1249142894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show choo < 1249142894 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]+32[<]>[[.>]<[<]>[-]>] < 1249142899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can compile C into it (not well)! < 1249142900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249142904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^choo Testing < 1249142904 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing esting sting ting ing ng g < 1249142916 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange, I see the response here < 1249142927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Maybe you're banned :) < 1249142932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the autospambotbannerthingy < 1249142943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a thing where the author of a comment s— < 1249142943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1249142944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme dig a link < 1249142952 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, if you use the algorithmic approach, i dont see any reason why you couldnt procedurally port and build kde4 to/from brainfuck if you felt like building the necessary bits of glue, right? < 1249142967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE4, maybe not < 1249142971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/94s1u/ohsorry/c0bfs8r < 1249142977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so reddit may be having issues < 1249142978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm trying to do that with programs about as complicated as NetHack, via gcc-bf < 1249142980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: IO < 1249142982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I need to finish some time < 1249142997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for someone to mention PSOX < 1249143020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially love how gcc-bf has filesystem emulation going. < 1249143029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written but not tested in any way < 1249143037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the filesystem is slightly simpler than DOS 1's < 1249143046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still nice. < 1249143068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since the idea is to just be a hosted implementation of C, it's not like you need a *complex* filesystem. < 1249143079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does it compare to MFS? < 1249143092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know of MFS < 1249143105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, it's a malloced dictionary, implemented using linear search < 1249143110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you couldn't really get much worse < 1249143114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it had resource forks but not directories < 1249143115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1249143115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Folders existed as a concept on the original MFS-based Macintosh, but worked completely differently from the way they do on modern systems. They were visible in Finder windows, but not in the open and save dialog boxes. There was always one empty folder on the volume, and if it was altered in any way (such as by adding or renaming files), a new Empty Folder would appear, thus providing a way to create new folders. MFS stored all of the file and directory lis < 1249143126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bffs doesn't have directories at all < 1249143131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ting information in a single file. The Finder created the "illusion" of folders, by storing all files as a directory handle/file handle pair. To display the contents of a particular folder, MFS would scan the directory for all files in that handle. There was no need to find a separate file containing the directory listing. < 1249143131 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++[>+++[>>+>++++>+++>+++>++<[++++<]<-]<-]>>>---.>>----.>+++..+++.>++.<<<<++++++++++.>>.-..>------.<<----.>>>+. < 1249143132 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello Reddit! < 1249143137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but MFS is more perverse < 1249143140 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :113 characters :-( < 1249143141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1249143144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :structured metadata but no folders… but crazily hacked up folders < 1249143153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: at least you have 3 nested loops there, which is always fun to see < 1249143159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, and the innermost is unbalanced < 1249143169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must have driven you mad trying to write that < 1249143172 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1249143173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if esotope can optimise that < 1249143181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes. < 1249143182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in-between? < 1249143187 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, just took five minutes < 1249143190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To what extent is a good question. < 1249143361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems I don't have a copy of in-between here to test, and I'm pretty sure I don't have a copy of esotope-bfc either < 1249143380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn co blah < 1249143383 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, you guys have inspired me to do something i think needs to be done - and that is write up a short paper trying to explain why i think that Zurek's work makes the idea that information theory is the fundamental ontology of the universe approach the status of 'proven, so long as QED remains experimentally valid' < 1249143424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only said that so you could watch people trying to parse it, didn't you? < 1249143449 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if that was the case, i would have been more careful with the grammar :( < 1249143461 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since trying to parse it myself reading it now, i stumble a bit < 1249143574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't help that I expanded "QED" the wrong way at a first reading < 1249143627 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ouch, thats definitely an invalid typecast when i parse it that way < 1249143645 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it almost godel statement's my head. < 1249143647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1249143653 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I been playing with a 4 instruction Forth. >R R> R@ and - < 1249143660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: oklopol commented on that < 1249143661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so did I :P < 1249143669 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1249143672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: "I'll gödel statement your sexual organs, if you know what I mean." < 1249143680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(first person to use that IRL gets a cookie. a Gödel cookie.) < 1249143716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, someone just prodded a page on Esolang, and we don't even have a prod template < 1249143720 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: didn't see your comment < 1249143723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: my comment was the first one, the nitpick :P < 1249143736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, right, I was going to ask you to delete two pages < 1249143736 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hmm, couldnt you just embed a good old fashioned paradox in them? if you can prove a false stament, you can prove any statement, so i could then prove 'i have sex with you' to anyone i wish via the broken logical system < 1249143745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've probably deleted one already < 1249143760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but http://esolangs.org/wiki/MonkeyCode is rather mystifying, it reminds me of a schrodilan which has already gone off < 1249143760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/More, because it isn't even a language that the author of the page invented, isn't interesting, is a stupid, and is worth zilch < 1249143766 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks anonymous ;-) I left the comment, but fixed the typo < 1249143809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I do think the idea of using #!/bin/tail is a mildly clever one (which I also came up with) < 1249143813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The second is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Compute because it's semantically meaningless, the interpreter isn't, could only be created by someone with the intellect of a 2 year old and is in just about every which way pointless, but then we have precedent for keeping those sorts of pages. < 1249143815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was planning to use it in esoteric Perl < 1249143822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's so mildly clever that EVERYONE has figured it out. < 1249143825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, not a language. < 1249143830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I think we should leave it in the jokes list < 1249143836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or Compute? < 1249143839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's a common and fundamental type of joke that we don't actually have yet < 1249143841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Computer < 1249143844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Compute < 1249143846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More is less clear < 1249143848 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to implement enough to prove that >R R> R@ and - are Turing complete. < 1249143850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have that, actually, ais523 < 1249143858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1249143864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1249143868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/QWERTY_Keyboard_Dot_Language < 1249143890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that doesn't have the "No IO" feature that makes it implementable < 1249143893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, I suspect, the real joke < 1249143898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/implementable/"implementable"/ < 1249143898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Compute isn't implementable, either < 1249143907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't computing if you don't actually compute it < 1249143911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ofc < 1249143920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's a bad joke, but not so bad that it's worthy of deletion < 1249143929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I agree, we do have precedent for keeping that sort of thing < 1249143936 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually a few quantum computing algorithms do their best to cheat on that, but i guess i wont argue the point < 1249143954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it agreed that http://esolangs.org/wiki/More is an awful waste of space? < 1249143971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think it you could write a decent article about the subject, but that isn't it < 1249143984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe as a section in a longer article about ways to abuse non-esolang programs < 1249144012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't wasting space, incidentally; deleted pages take up more space than non-deleted pages < 1249144016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure < 1249144018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean semantic space < 1249144020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subjective space < 1249144021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :browsing space < 1249144028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't in any cats, so it isn't wasting space that way either < 1249144030 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-172-4-88.range86-172.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249144031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cognitive space < 1249144035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disk space is a useless concept, anyway < 1249144038 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if you are worried about the informational ethics of deleting pointless pages i advise you to apply the 'in 500 billion years nobody care and this irks my aesthetics, good bye' < 1249144039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can store anything these days for peanuts < 1249144051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Sorry, no; I'm a packrat. :) < 1249144082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, can anyone deduce a language spec from this: http://nocluestudios.com/MonkeyCode < 1249144086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, *I'd* quite like to care in roughly that time, if by sheer luck we get brain scanning before I become all stupid n' shit. < 1249144096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... let's try web archive < 1249144125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure i've seen monkey code before < 1249144164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20050311210617/http://www.nocluestudios.com/ <--- I preferred eso-std.org's placeholder < 1249144194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still say :> was the narrator, not a spaceship < 1249144195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, all the pages in the web archive for nocluestudios have placeholders worded pretty similarly < 1249144204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hasn't archived any actual content < 1249144214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly it's always been like that < 1249144224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, did this language ever exist? < 1249144247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1249144256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a tunes.org log entry about it < 1249144260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it has no branching. < 1249144268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interp only ran on windows and was closed-source < 1249144283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Old dudes who know Brainfuck | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249144285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, worse than deadfish? < 1249144295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that bad, probably < 1249144307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, deadfish caught on massively, somehow < 1249144332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:55:56 --- join: DawnLight (n=DawnLigh@82.166.248.171) joined #esoteric < 1249144333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:56:09 are you guys crazy? < 1249144362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what date? < 1249144370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really, how can we respond to that? < 1249144380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20071029 < 1249144392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what date is the tunes.org log entry? < 1249144396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should link to it on the monkeycode page < 1249144403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google the url of the site < 1249144405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it actually have some content at least < 1249144427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your search - http://www.nocluestudios.com/MonkeyCode - did not match any documents. < 1249144434 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249144459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it works without the www < 1249144476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:59:14 It's 1 PM, so I should get some sleep. < 1249144480 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the creator of monkeycode knew how many neurons of the great minds of our time were pursuing his work, im sure hed be shocked < 1249144532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv < 1249144533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not that clever/ < 1249144537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$/./ < 1249144537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249144597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'd be as good as programmer at all if I didn't have a computer when I was 3 < 1249144601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, someone prodded for notability reasons, we don't do that on esolang < 1249144607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly environment < 1249144632 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say that now, but wait until one of your clever little esoteric language loops actually happens to compile itself upon reading to neural level executable and you become the first human/algorithm hybrid consciousness < 1249144644 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a true literal 'brainfuck' < 1249144658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm planning on that! < 1249144669 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does prod mean? < 1249144700 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the english word? < 1249144708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proposed deletion < 1249144716 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wiki templating < 1249144723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a deletion vote without the voting < 1249144729 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is always in global context < 1249144730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., "Hey, this should be deleted." < 1249144742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you need to contextualise! < 1249144746 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1249144749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Wikipedia, it means it can be deleted with 1 support and without objection within 7 days < 1249144757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is a vote, sort of < 1249144764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249144764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one that has to be unanimous, and where people don't actually bother to vote < 1249144768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:14:53 penguin benchmark avocado < 1249144768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:15:13 ? < 1249144768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:15:29 immibis coil fortress modulo sailing < 1249144769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:15:49 ? < 1249144769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:16:00 ? < 1249144769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:16:18 what are you talking about < 1249144771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:16:38 deftly turtle english markup < 1249144952 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I ought to get some programming done < 1249146658 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249147372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1249147378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1249147397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : . http://io9.com/5327313/meet-two-new-quantum-particles-spinons-and-holons <-- fascinating < 1249147406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also bullshit < 1249147410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not really particles < 1249147421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like, ways to describe fluctuations between particles or sth < 1249147421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this like phonons? < 1249147423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :physicist on reddit said < 1249147423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249147425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like phonons < 1249147430 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plenty of things are not real particles < 1249147432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's a good thing in the io9 comments, layman explanation < 1249147437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably find the comments on reddit < 1249147438 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are quasi-particles < 1249147451 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're still the same mathematically < 1249147452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/96j3t/electron_split_into_2_new_quantum_particles/c0bljcd < 1249147457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ angry scientist is angry < 1249147529 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he should join the Union of Concerned Scientists < 1249147537 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anger Chapter < 1249147538 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ucsusa.org/ < 1249148619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc :D < 1249148810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wickdee. < 1249149682 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249149760 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esola Next Generation < 1249150153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Esola was a secret convent of gnostic Armenian hermits founded in Anatolia in the 9th century. Most of the monks were wiped out in 1917 in an event which the Turkish government denies to this day. A few of the monks were able to flee to America, where they founded EsolaNG." < 1249150192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249150210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you not aware of our proud tradition? < 1249150216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1249150237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oh < 1249150239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang < 1249150240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how amusing < 1249150248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol it's like, i put esola in my google field < 1249150249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was < 1249150252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esola blah blah < 1249150254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esola blah blah < 1249150255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang < 1249150261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was like, ok, that must be EsolaNG < 1249150264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess it _is_ secret. at least when there are turks nearby. < 1249150264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i typed esolang < 1249150266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saw "esolang wiki" < 1249150267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i thought < 1249150272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right the wikipedia article < 1249150274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googled esolang < 1249150276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DOH" < 1249150287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great success! < 1249150331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249153713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I’m sorry, I think char strings are a really bad solution, but the XML thing is just as bad. I use my own lib to make everystring a number, every word a number. Makes programs that do the same things with 100 times less code, thousands times faster, and I have measured it, this is not a theoretical statement like yours.]] < 1249153717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w… what o_O < 1249153777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh… CUPS is made by Apple. < 1249153782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume coppro doesn't use it :-P < 1249154332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The top of the cube with ample room for ventilation and a slot below for DVDs or CD-ROMs. Look ma! No fans!" // yeah, right :P < 1249154645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: who said that, and why < 1249154653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1249154661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quote just after oerjan left < 1249154670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, immediately after, there was quite a timelag < 1249154677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, aren't all strings numbers already? < 1249154690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i really don't know man < 1249154693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fucked up quote :P < 1249154813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the quote after that was from a review of the G4 Cube; evidently theirs had not yet overheated :P) < 1249154991 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-7-202.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249155019 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest15416 < 1249155192 0 :Guest15416!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Moony < 1249155499 0 :Moony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249156066 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249158136 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1249158852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Documents/LimeChat Transcripts] % cat */* | grep '^..:.. ehird' | awk '{for (i = 3; i < NF; i++) print $i }' | sort | uniq -ic | sort -n | e < 1249158864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sort -rn < 1249158896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the a to is I it you of and that in AnMaster: < 1249158898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ the top words < 1249158918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like "for", "not", "it's", "be", "has", "on", "with", "as" and "do" come below "AnMaster:". < 1249158925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is hilarious. < 1249158943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sort -f < 1249158950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid dupliciciciates < 1249159013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Documents/LimeChat Transcripts] % cat */* | grep '^..:.. ehird' | awk '{for (i = 3; i < NF; i++) print $i }' | LC_ALL=C sort -f | uniq -ic | sort -rn | tr '[:upper:]' '[:lower:]' < 1249159016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complete solution < 1249159016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1249159020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add | e at the end :P < 1249159090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many hapax legomenons. < 1249159096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*legomena < 1249159105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And dis legomena. < 1249159108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long tail sort of thing. < 1249159877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what exactly are you measuring there? < 1249159888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just read the line; it's fairly obvious. < 1249159895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frequency of word in phrases directed to you? I'm not faimilar with the log format < 1249159902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HH:MM person: text < 1249159908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1249159959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess: frequency of words in what you said yourself? < 1249159964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what the awk bit is there for < 1249160046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, must be to cut away timestamp and ehird? < 1249160051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why start at 3 then < 1249160053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1249160053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although "ehird" is still the top word. < 1249160058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: $1 = HH:MM < 1249160061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$2 = person: < 1249160062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249160064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$3 = first word < 1249160069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right duh < 1249160071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-based < 1249160073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot that < 1249160093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I found a new game. Sadly it doesn't run very well on the laptop. Due to the intel graphics < 1249160098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249160129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "vegastrike", an open source space game. seems quite fun so far, still learning how stuff in it works though... < 1249160141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1249160177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you installed the open source intel drivers? < 1249160184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should handle 3D better than your desktop, at least. < 1249161973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249162289 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249162396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: have you installed the open source intel drivers? <-- yes it uses the intel drivers. I get hardware acceleration even. (checked with glxgears), It even handles the game quite well when there aren't a lot of other ships on the screen. However when there are: my desktop handles it far better < 1249162433 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249162434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the desktop however takes ages to load the game. And swaps out other programs while doing so. < 1249162734 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249163983 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249164012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: < 1249164016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: have you installed the open source intel drivers? <-- yes it uses the intel drivers. I get hardware acceleration even. (checked with glxgears), It even handles the game quite well when there aren't a lot of other ships on the screen. However when there are: my desktop handles it far better < 1249164031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shoulda chosen the ATI graphics. < 1249164033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a geforce 7600 isn't quite as bad as you think < 1249164078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the drivers < 1249164082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the gp < 1249164083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpu < 1249164086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe. still the game vegastrike seems quite graphics intensive with shaders and what not, and I won't need that advanced graphics < 1249164088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc the intel drivers are slow < 1249164090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux < 1249164094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, really slow < 1249164100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any better drivers then for linux? < 1249164109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah; they're working on it < 1249164112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1249164142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I found this program by idle browsing in ubuntu's add/remove programs thingy in the game category < 1249164165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's a nice way to find neat programs < 1249164180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the "not maintained by canonical" section < 1249164210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have a list of other games to try out. Found a few "sounds good by really quite bad" and some "better than it sounds" ones < 1249164218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the latter category: "kiki the nanobot" < 1249164225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting puzzle game < 1249164240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw select all programs, not just non-canonical < 1249164247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you're just excluding stuff for no reason :P < 1249164250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah that is what I did < 1249164252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather: < 1249164254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1249164264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"open source non-canon(ical)" ;P < 1249164279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best game is xjump < 1249164287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249164293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best action-sorta game < 1249164295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried it before, and well, I just suck at it < 1249164303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of the distilled essence of the fast-paced game < 1249164306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: me too < 1249164318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out it's the fluff additions that make games easy :P < 1249164327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, their vegastrike package is a bit buggy. I'm not sure in what way, but background music only works when you docked to a space station, otherwise it spews python tracebacks in stdout < 1249164338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's prolly not the packaging < 1249164348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it works correctly on gentoo < 1249164354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the upstream binary build < 1249164360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drivers, infrastructure etc < 1249164396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh xjump would be much easier if the whole world wasn't made of butter < 1249164410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 1) gentoo doesn't have a package for it 2) the binary package is 497 MB, most is data but it seems more of a pain to build it anyway < 1249164553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and vegastrike might seem kind of dead when looking at their website (last commit in May) but it also seems very stable and complete, just found one minor bug/misfeature so far: they seem to use a custom font in the game, and when it is rendered at small size (only a few places, but then very long bits of text) it is very hard to read. < 1249164555 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-38-136.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249164572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the first vertical line in M goes missing. or very faint < 1249164596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *suspect* misuse of anti-aliasing. < 1249164621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may isn't really dead < 1249164641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and just now: white text on slightly off white bg = bad idea < 1249164654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems to be due to rendering text on a surface reflecting the sun < 1249164656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by loki1950 < 1249164656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:43 pm < 1249164660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that name is in rad < 1249164661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :red < 1249164665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I turn the ship around it is close to black instead < 1249164665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the feature requests forum < 1249164667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := admin < 1249164673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm? kay < 1249164715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is that column btw? under bug tracker? < 1249164744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares at main page < 1249164801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1249164804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forums < 1249164807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1249164828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249164846 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249164871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you like this type of games you might want to give it a try. No idea if you a) like them b) have a computer able to handle lots of shaders and special effects (though you can use the separate program vssetup to turn some of that off, yes that is right, settings are in a separate program) < 1249164889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of game is it? < 1249164890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh another thing, it is stretched on wide screen (unless you run in windowed mode) < 1249164901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have a mildly crappy gfx card from 2006 < 1249164903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :came with mac < 1249164906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lowest end one < 1249164908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some ati thingy < 1249164932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can run games from like 2002 at full res with everything turned on at high fps, so < 1249164939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's as intensive as commercial games, prolly fine < 1249164945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can't you set black bars < 1249164946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well... space simulator/game. You can notice they gave a half hearted try to simulate realistic physics then gave up and added a "SPEC-drive" so the game wouldn't take so long < 1249164947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1249164959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: strategy? < 1249164966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what. < 1249164979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you pilot a ship, so not freeciv style of stratergy < 1249164988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :action? < 1249164988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is combat too, haven't yet figured out how it works < 1249164996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but also peaceful trading if you want < 1249165060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is a mission computer, haven't worked that out yet either, only done simple "by cargo at planet a, go to astroid b with mining facilities and sell it, buy other cargo, go back" stuff yet < 1249165107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to earn money to be able to buy a ship able to survive in combat. I strayed into an area with pirates first. Had to restore from savegame :) < 1249165159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw. you can use keyboard/mouse to control. In fact it even works quite well. Joystick is nice for when you are trying to fly into the docking port at a space station though. :) < 1249165176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate joysticks < 1249165182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1249165203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is there to hate about joysticks :/ < 1249165206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hilarious internet answer: Too phallic. Real answer: Movement isn't free-form enough, buttons are awkward. < 1249165220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what sort of joystick have you used then? < 1249165227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few < 1249165228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buttons are well placed on this one < 1249165234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing "high-end" or anything < 1249165253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most, and there are enough of the well placed ones that you never need the non-well-placed ones < 1249165262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes high-end < 1249165275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no point spending money if i don't expect to like it < 1249165307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and this one even doesn't need to be recalibrated very often. As in: maybe once / year or so < 1249165323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that needs calibration sucks < 1249165338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, all joysticks do. < 1249165347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, all joysticks suck. < 1249165377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and there is no noisy potentiometers in it. It uses the hall effect to sense the position of the joystick instead. Which is really cool < 1249165453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION configures LiteSwitch X to single-application mode < 1249165475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(think: one app = one virtual desktop, pretty much) < 1249165504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway: mouse works very well until you need to not just control pitch/yaw, but also roll. you can do it by keyboard but if you want to control speed at same time you really have a hard time compared to throttle/joystick combo < 1249165541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "liteswitch X" for? < 1249165541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a joystick that's basically a trackball with little dimples to grip < 1249165548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a better cmd-tab window switcher < 1249165557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249165558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :app switcher < 1249165570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1249165577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting idea that trackball. it could handle the < 1249165583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the single-application mode just means that whenever an application focuses, it hides all others < 1249165593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the yaw too < 1249165600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it could < 1249165609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also make it able to be pushed down quite a bit < 1249165622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you could make the dimples be buttons < 1249165622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1249165624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as in < 1249165629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-()- < 1249165630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the ball < 1249165631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1249165633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- - < 1249165633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : () < 1249165640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except less so < 1249165644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., the ball can be depressed < 1249165647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lol@that wording) < 1249165661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, might be hard to reach dimple-buttons when pressed down? unless I misunderstood you < 1249165667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd keep your hand on it < 1249165670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wouldn't go all the way < 1249165684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd push with your palm < 1249165719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249165752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not build one? < 1249165792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know people who built their own pedals for flight sim. though joysticks are probably a lot harder. < 1249165821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you push it with your palm, won't that push all the buttons too? < 1249165894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1249165901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, they're dimples < 1249165915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to get your finger n < 1249165916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in < 1249165927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right. thought they were more shallow < 1249165935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like those on, say, a golf ball < 1249165968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you mean something between them and the whole on a bowling ball? < 1249165973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holes* < 1249165980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(crazy typo) < 1249165996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't really describe it < 1249166033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it could only have one function < 1249166038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you couldn't hold and spin < 1249166043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249166083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to use 2-3 buttons at the same time as I'm moving the joystick, and also the throttle and some button on it < 1249166084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249166087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "tend to" < 1249166091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "sometimes I need it" < 1249166120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, try landing in a flight sim with a harrier. that is/was the brittish jet that can land vertically < 1249166152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you need to handle pitch/yaw/roll/throttle/thrust_vector at the same time :) < 1249166268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just buy a real plane. < 1249166390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would be much more expensive and, 1) getting a flight cert 2) fuel 3) the actual plane, and since iirc it is still in service... And I don't think there is a large "black" market for them. < 1249166412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more fun! < 1249166452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the real aircraft *does* have a joystick. And it needs not only calibration but lots of other sorts of expensive maintenance! < 1249166496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet and app that makes your cursor wrap around xD < 1249166519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice idea < 1249166527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit hard to get used to I imagine... < 1249166540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Why yes, buying a real plane would be more fun. < 1249166545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you see, that *costs money*. < 1249166548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249166551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to buy your mom < 1249166552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I mentioned that < 1249166582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush you. Just because you were born of a prostitute doesn't mean everyone's mother is that way. < 1249166611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to make clicking the desktop -not- focus the finder… < 1249166616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks in liteswitch x prefs < 1249166632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Liteswitch X? < 1249166634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do tell. < 1249166646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind. Lops. < 1249166647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's an OS X application that makes switching applications Not Suck. < 1249166650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lops? < 1249166662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"erstwhile" <-- just wondering, would any of you use this word instead of "once"? < 1249166662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logs. < 1249166665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinks. < 1249166671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1249166674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a heartbeat. < 1249166676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1249166683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. I had to define: it < 1249166684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm not _that_ pretentious < 1249166686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1249166706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERSTWHILE, IT DID HAPPENSTANCE UPON ME THAT THE CURRENT METHOD FOR CALCULATING NUMERICAL VALUES IS PERHAPS NOT IDEAL < 1249166714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249166732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh, so you've talked to me IRL? :P < 1249166746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, but if that's what you sound like I'll avoid it :P < 1249166749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. "happenstance"? < 1249166755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happenstance. < 1249166764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I exaggerate. < 1249166766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google says "coincidence" < 1249166767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249166775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush :P < 1249166776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRL, I sound like me on IRC. < 1249166785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only, more vocalising. < 1249166792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" once, IT DID coincidence UPON ME THAT THE CURRENT METHOD FOR CALCULATING NUMERICAL VALUES IS PERHAPS NOT IDEAL" <-- Is it supposed to make sense? < 1249166793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249166803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just s/happenstance/occur/ < 1249166806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1249166812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd-return/shift is a nice keycombo for switching apps < 1249166816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like that evil cmd-tab < 1249166820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rsi it doth dole out < 1249166843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer C-t C-t. < 1249166847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where is the cmd key then exactly? Isn't it the one closest to the space key? < 1249166853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in: ctrl, alt, cmd, space < 1249166854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :control, option, cmd < 1249166856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249166865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd and control are longer than option < 1249166879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can cmt-tab be *that* bad then. Ctrl-tab I would have understood better < 1249166890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.circa1978.com/v1/images/mackeyboards_compared.jpg the bottom one < 1249166894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my hands are small < 1249166898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have my thumb on cmd < 1249166900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my… < 1249166902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next to pinky < 1249166903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finger on tab < 1249166910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twisted < 1249166915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i have to tab multiple times < 1249166922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare to using the bottom of my pinky to hold tab < 1249166926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tapping return/shift < 1249166929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shift goes backwards) < 1249166938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pinky on tab :D < 1249166943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1249166945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*next to* < 1249166946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249166947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hold cmd < 1249166947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249166957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could use the other cmd key < 1249166963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shift would still be a pain < 1249166993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom of the pinky? Huh. *suggests raising the chair a bit* < 1249167011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what < 1249167029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if I raised my chair much more, the top of my legs would hit the keyboard stand < 1249167051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bottom of pinky? Don't you mean the base of the finger, close to where it is attached to the hand, with that? < 1249167055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else < 1249167058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249167073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the top of my pinky (i.e. key-hitter) then rests on s < 1249167081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that makes my next finger press down space if I try it on the key next to space here (which is alt) < 1249167082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at that pic of the kb and you get the idea < 1249167094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249167097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not here < 1249167105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use a home-row orientation < 1249167123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you place your hands then? < 1249167126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variably. < 1249167149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see the pinky manoeuvre (sp??) < 1249167163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(looks more like French to me. bah) < 1249167169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manoeuvre < 1249167182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, aspell thinks so < 1249167187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or Maneuver < 1249167190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maneuver < 1249167197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is more common < 1249167213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, < 1249167213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manoeuvre - Wiktionary < 1249167214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 Jun 2009 ... From the French noun manoeuvre and verb manoeuvrer, from Old French manovrer, from Vulgar Latin *manuoperare, from Latin manu (“'by hand'”) ... < 1249167215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this aspell dict sucks. it thinks maneuver is invalid < 1249167218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from french, heh < 1249167220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is it british english? < 1249167225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, en_GB yes < 1249167231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maneuver is American in origin < 1249167235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249167240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dictionary here rejects it too < 1249167270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to use a dict that things "colorize" is an existing word. < 1249167288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1249167293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. colourise is :P < 1249167301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't reply with something perscriptivist— like that— < 1249167301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in British English < 1249167304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prescriptivist < 1249167314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why are you talking in modern english? < 1249167319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody just made up those words, too < 1249167326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well right. < 1249167342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION declares jashdflkaeiljahalqjvc to be a word < 1249167355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, if you convince a lot of people to < 1249167356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means: "lets make up a word" < 1249168167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Google: I searched "disable dock leopard", not "disable 3d dock leopard". < 1249168172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuuuuuuuuuck you < 1249168174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1249168441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Home Folder, other folders - I will never understand these as I am the only user on my computer. I want everything as close to the main drives as possible." < 1249168441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, I think instating a law that you only have free speech if you know what the fuck you're talking about would be a good thing. < 1249168493 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: O_O < 1249168496 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WhoTF wrote that? < 1249168508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idiot whining about idiotic things on some random mac forum I found while googling. < 1249168512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: LART. < 1249168516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another gem: < 1249168519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I guess I get so upset with the braindead design of the function of most of these programs because they have so much potential. Its like you have somebody that does some excellent groundwork, then some illogical, prancing, faggot in drag wants to make things pretty and ruins all the planning of the previous designer who was laying out the groundwork so meticulously. And then the upper management OK's the pretty boy ignoring the logic shown beforehand.]] < 1249168577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good description of Windows. Except that there's no excellent groundwork. < 1249169017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Todo list: < 1249169019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Obliterate dock < 1249169024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Configure Overflow to my liking < 1249169711 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Todo list: < 1249169718 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Obliterate ehird < 1249169731 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- (Continue to) Configure #esoteric to my liking < 1249169731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - Configure ehird to my liking < 1249169733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn < 1249169734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249169762 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would need to invent an "aging and gaying machine" < 1249169770 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("gay" is a transitive verb now?) < 1249169873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I cannot figure out how to fit [23:36] GregorR-L: I would need to invent an "aging and gaying machine" into any sort of context whatsoever. < 1249169880 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1249169895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you're fucking cauliflower, why not use a tractor? < 1249169904 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly! < 1249170521 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249170611 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1249170615 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the machine is gaying < 1249170618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its becoming more and more gay < 1249170634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think the machine makes things older and gayer < 1249170646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how on earth that relates to anything GregorR-L… I have no clue < 1249170674 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249170679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a homogeneous machine? < 1249170684 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: X-D < 1249170693 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's homogenius! < 1249170726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1249170741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:35] ehird: - Configure ehird to my liking < 1249170741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:36] GregorR-L: I would need to invent an "aging and gaying machine" < 1249170748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking + science = COMPREHENSION < 1249170750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it today < 1249170767 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249170783 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249170791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not entirely sure why you also want it to be a gaying machine. < 1249170812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh… I'm gonna assume that if, to make someone to your liking, you need to make them more gay, then that makes you gay. < 1249170812 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have peculiar notions of what the definition of "liking" is? :P < 1249170827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just me, what with my science and all. < 1249170832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you know, even _i_ am close to accepting that logic < 1249170834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE↗ < 1249170839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes you go upwards and rightwards. < 1249170841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO THE FUTURE < 1249170860 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't apply the gaying machine to women, I'll have a separate straighting machine if necessary for that. < 1249170868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249170901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess choosing between the machines would be a bifurcation < 1249170911 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1249170915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's if he's a furry < 1249170954 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles "bi furry vocation" < 1249170962 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not actually google that :P < 1249171006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better a bi furry vacation! < 1249171014 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-O < 1249171015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bi-furry < 1249171038 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my colleagues here is a furry >_> ... it's ... awkward? < 1249171054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am starting to dislike google's tendency to give hits that don't actually exist in the page < 1249171069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vocation is nowhere to be seen) < 1249171080 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lamesauce! < 1249171094 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if you quote it it won't do that. < 1249171096 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or + it maybe? < 1249171117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quotes vocation < 1249171143 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just occurred to me that I'm on a vocation vacation ... I think? < 1249171180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not supposed to think on vacation < 1249171192 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess it's not a vacation at all :P < 1249171209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure i know like a furry or two < 1249171210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1249171325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS DOTH PISS ME OFF < 1249171333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to get rid of that damn dock >_< < 1249171359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be a dick, duck the dock < 1249171360 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOTH IT NOW? < 1249171371 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't be a dick, dig the dock! :P < 1249171386 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... A GRAVE < 1249171435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION resorts to google searches like "i hate the dock" and "obliterate dock" < 1249171500 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google get rid of mac os x dock < 1249171520 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is gone?? D-8 < 1249171536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249171539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has been for N time < 1249171550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: it's mostly just "HURR REMOVE THE REFLECTIVE DOCK" < 1249171554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas i want the whole thing gone < 1249171573 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249171600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto hu HUR HUR HUR < 1249171608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en hu HUR HUR HUR < 1249171610 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW HOW HOW < 1249171611 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hur Hur Hur < 1249171613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249171615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW HOW HOW < 1249171626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto hu en HOW HOW HOW < 1249171629 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW HOW HOW < 1249171684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think W is used much in hungarian < 1249171706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto hu en HOGY HOGY HOGY < 1249171708 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW TO THAT < 1249171721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :versatile word, HOGY < 1249171750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto hu en HOGY HOGY HOGY HOGY < 1249171752 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT THAT THAT THAT < 1249171753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy, hogy, hogy hogy hogy hogy; hogy! Hogy, hogy. Hogy, hogy hogy. < 1249171755 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to to to to to that, that! How to. How, how. < 1249171778 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1249171783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249171810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hungarian. Wow. < 1249171882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you want to ask someone "how do I do that?" brokenly, you can say "Hogy hogy hogy?". < 1249171900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "that" is in the conjunction sense, iirc. < 1249171978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a pronoun < 1249171982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1249172001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "How do I do hard things?" → "Hogy hogy hogy [which is hard]". < 1249172003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know about the "to" sense < 1249172011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/"\.$/?"./ < 1249172030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en hu How do I do hard things? < 1249172032 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I do kemény dolgokat? < 1249172035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how "Hogy, hogy hogy" becomes "How, how". < 1249172040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good grief < 1249172042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'MA JUST IGNORE THIS ONE RIGHT HEERE < 1249172061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en hu that which is hard < 1249172064 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, ami kemény < 1249172066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en hu How can I do hard things? < 1249172068 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I do kemény dolgokat? < 1249172069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemény < 1249172071 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how kemĂŠny < 1249172076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny < 1249172078 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard is that < 1249172080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249172118 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that < 1249172126 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57| `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that < 1249172159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laughing while drink is in your mouth is hard < 1249172161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story < 1249172174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well doesn't have to be drinkable < 1249172176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be any liquid < 1249172189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Hungarian is hard to translate. Got it. < 1249172233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en hu How is babby formed? < 1249172235 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogyan babby alakult? < 1249172250 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translateto hu baby < 1249172252 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baba < 1249172260 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogyan babba alakult? < 1249172330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate fromto en hu How hard is that < 1249172332 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromto en hu How hard is that < 1249172332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en hu How hard is that < 1249172335 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mennyire nehéz az, hogy < 1249172337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249172342 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOGY HOGY HOGY < 1249172351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal! < 1249172356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny" mean? < 1249172362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"az" actually means that, btw < 1249172367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"that" < 1249172390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en hu Hogy az hogy < 1249172392 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogy az hogy < 1249172398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto hu en Hogy az hogy < 1249172400 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that < 1249172410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ami kemeny you already translated. ami is a relative pronoun btw. < 1249172425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto hu en Hogy ami hogy kemeny hogy hogy < 1249172427 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard is that to that < 1249172428 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "hogyhogy" is an expression of surprise, unrelated to hogy < 1249172437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Hahaha < 1249172437 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1249172437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto hu en Hogy az < 1249172439 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the < 1249172442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just makes it even better < 1249172444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1249172468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: so is there anything hogy DOESN'T mean in hungarian? :D < 1249172504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :az also is the definite article in front of vowels < 1249172570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Supercalifragalisticexpialidocious. < 1249172584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249172585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i < 1249172683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh, someone fix this < 1249172701 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249172781 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto hu en Hogy-hogy, hogy érted, hogy "Hogyan"? < 1249172783 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to ĂŠrted "how"? < 1249172827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-unicode must DIE. < 1249172889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Society for the Extermination of Non-Unicode Character Sets — http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249172925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: UTF- < 1249172926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1249172938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :society for solving the REAL fucking problem — http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249172953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the REAL fucking problem is usually wanting to do something practical) < 1249172959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Thou art a dumbass. < 1249172962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Society for the Extermination of Non-Unicode Character Sets — http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249172973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: now _that_ is a topic i simply refuse to believe for this channel < 1249172978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :society for solving the REAL fucking problem — http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249172989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as I said, (the REAL fucking problem is usually wanting to do something practical) < 1249173050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Society for the Extermination of Unicde -- http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249173059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Society for the Extermination of Unicode -- http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249173075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeþ. < 1249173090 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bad lisp you've got there. < 1249173100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not lexically scoped < 1249173131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Yeþ, I know. < 1249173180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've alſo got a bad caſe of þe ſ-eþ. < 1249174452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boo. < 1249175606 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249175702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you need to uninstall CUPS, quick! < 1249175720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: haha < 1249175720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I feel like learning Parsec. Let's see about writing, oh, an IRC parser. < 1249175727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Apple make it!! < 1249175732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: barely anything to lawn < 1249175734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249175735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn < 1249175749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Eh, yeah. < 1249175765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably won't take me long to write this parser. < 1249175811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, might not be hard to make it a full client or some such. < 1249175830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using gtk2hs! < 1249176272 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249176716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so I think I adore Parsec. < 1249176958 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's fun? < 1249176969 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling a big project with libstdc++'s pedantic mode < 1249176992 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249177004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does there exist a langage where operator precedence is determined by whitespace? < 1249177017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249177020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merd, for instance < 1249177032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249177833 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249177867 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is even at least one pseudo-real language, Fortress. < 1249179258 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-168-223.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1249181779 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone had the following error compiling the Linux kernel, and does anyone know how to fix it? "/(path)/linux-2.6.30.4/usr/Makefile:50: *** target pattern contains no '%'. Stop." < 1249181814 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's bizarre ... make --version? < 1249182263 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Make 3.81 < 1249182478 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The line is "$(deps_initramfs):" (which seems rather pointless) < 1249182482 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that answers nothing :) < 1249182505 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commenting out that line causes the same error on "$(deps_initramfs): klibcdirs" (which also seems pointless as it could be combined with the previous line) < 1249182573 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way i can have make output the value of deps_initramfs? < 1249182600 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also does not seem to be set anywhere (???) < 1249182641 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the path does not contain : (since googling told me that would cause the problem) < 1249182742 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears < 1249182746 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a clue, can't help < 1249182806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: echo? < 1249182817 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pooppy: In a makefile? < 1249182893 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A makefile which won't load because it has above mentioned weird error) < 1249182971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make -d < 1249183239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: why not? < 1249183266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will execute arbitrary commands; echo seems like a perfect candidate < 1249183273 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ... the makefile won't load? So it wouldn't actually run the echo line, no matter where you put it? < 1249185002 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Soushokuon < 1249185329 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249187371 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249188271 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-7.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249188940 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249188952 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249188960 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1249189041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting... fair dealing, while less braod in Canada, is considered a right, not a defense < 1249189104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the US, the precedent is that fair use is the only reason copyright law is constitutional. < 1249189146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but in the US it's considered a defense, not a right, so you cannot, for instance, sue for restriction of fair use < 1249189163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1249189172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas apparently in Canada it is actually a right, so in theory you could sue for restriction of it < 1249189174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish you could. < 1249189186 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'd have to read the SCC judgment < 1249189200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, the only way to do that would be massive copyright reform -- and while we're at it, we may as well fix all the rest. < 1249189214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would make that much less needed. < 1249189395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's pretty explicit "The fair dealing exception, like other exceptions in the Copyright Act, is a user’s right." < 1249189466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it doesn't mean you could necessarily sue over it < 1249190226 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a practical matter, courts tend to very strongly support the status quo interpretation of laws and the interests of property and rights holders against legal theories (even sensible ones) that would tend to disrupt them. < 1249190402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the text I quoted is directly from an SCC ruling < 1249190490 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, how do you make use of it? < 1249190508 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the idea that you could attack DRM with it? < 1249190539 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in theory < 1249190545 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was stupidly restrictive < 1249190558 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find a lawyer who could start a class action suit on behalf of consumers with the tort being that their property right of fair dealing was taken? < 1249190697 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it's likely < 1249190721 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im honestly interested, the 'use the system against itself' style reform often has a better chance of success (copyleft in general has worked well for isntance) < 1249190764 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you Canadian? < 1249190796 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, citizen of the world, fighting for information freedom everywhere (*gives the EFF salute*) < 1249190801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249190821 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's funny that I just realized? < 1249190845 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249190849 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249190870 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you brought this against a record company. In Canada, it's not illegal yet to circumvent protection measures. So they could probably defend themselves by bringing that up. But they're probably too arrogant to do so. < 1249190912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they don't have good standing with the Canadian courts < 1249190991 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-5.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249191433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You remember your odd experiments with Javascript 3D rendering? < 1249191438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://deanm.github.com/pre3d/monster.html You just got one-upped. < 1249191543 0 :Soushokuon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249191686 0 :Soushokuon!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249192773 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249194902 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249196131 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im trying to find my copy of the classic 'information theory and its engineering applications' book, but the entropy of my house is too high for me to uncover the signal < 1249196249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, it is well known that decreasing entropy in a system requires applying work to it < 1249196291 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well stated. < 1249196373 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an interesting related theorem i believe < 1249196401 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, without work to replenish, the information content of bookshelves decreases, because ONLY THE BOOKS YOU ACTUALLY USE will ever be 'lost' from them < 1249196422 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of the books that you never take off the shelf just stay there, but every book you actually take off the shelf has a finite positive chance of loss < 1249196461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as long as you don't get book worms < 1249196504 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, as always its hard to nail down those boundary conditions precisely < 1249196531 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely loss due to fire does indeed have a way of inverting the situation, where only the books checked OUT from the libarary might be preserved < 1249196548 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if everyone who checked out books from the library of alexandria had stolen them, would we be better off>? < 1249196580 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION returns to bookshelf and bookpile rummaging < 1249196643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very hypatical question < 1249196833 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, although given the 'doesnt remove the original' aspect of digital data, as a thought experiment it gives the pro-piracy argument some moral force in terms of 'we are acting to preserve data for future generations, in the large scale, despite our self-interested motives of the moment' < 1249197114 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime last year i spent an entire day retracing my steps of the previous day to find this EXACT book, which i had left sitting on the grass where i had been reading it in a park < 1249197125 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about this particularly treasured volume makes it try to escape from me! < 1249197851 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249199148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1249199999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249200000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249200492 0 :Soushokuon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249200530 0 :Soushokuon!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249200643 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249201349 0 :Soushokuon!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Notes_d-agrement < 1249201901 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@203-214-111-155.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1249202674 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1249203455 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!" < 1249205234 0 :Notes_d-agrement!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249205668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249209246 0 :Apoyaturas!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249209672 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@ti211310a341-1526.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249210610 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249211254 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249215224 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249215960 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1249216375 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249216472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Actually, all bullshit aside, I do have an idea for an application that will (edit legally) put money in your bank account every time you press a button in Firefox. < 1249216473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I don't have the skills to write such an application (which would be nothing more than an adaptation of existing open source software), so I'm keeping my mouth shut until I save < 1249216473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up a grand or so to rent a coder. Or find a genuine interested party that would be willing to sign an agreement, write the code and split the profits with me - a 30% me /60% you /10% overhead split would be generous, I believe.]] < 1249216473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I so hope this idiot tries to sell whatever it is, that'd just be hilarious < 1249216791 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249217069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" < 1249217070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Sony CEO on the PS3 < 1249219800 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-7-34.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249221987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The choice of power cord one makes to transmit AC over the final feet to a component has the potential to be the most influential sonic link in a music system's power chain." < 1249221987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— lol, audiophiles < 1249222100 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they pretty much admit it's magic < 1249222103 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even to themselves < 1249222282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1249222311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who cares about that stuff should just read http://hydrogenaudio.org/ (where they use crazy things like logic and the scientific method) and be done with it < 1249222317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to, to a degree < 1249222319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't really any more < 1249222528 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-38-136.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249223141 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249223523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249223582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249224101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a rather vacuous conversation, isn't it? < 1249224111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 minutes of nothing but whitespace... < 1249224229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249224957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249224994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523 < 1249224997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249226870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[6]:= Sum[i, {i, 0, n}] < 1249226870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[6]= 1/2 n (1 + n) < 1249226870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[7]:= Sum[i, {i, 1, n}] < 1249226870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[7]= 1/2 n (1 + n) < 1249226872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Mathematica: < 1249226874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1249226876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love, < 1249226878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— oh, wait. < 1249226881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, I'm stupid today. < 1249226887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to sleep better. < 1249226891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been the dumb recently. < 1249226897 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. < 1249226911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzlet: lucky you aren't blind < 1249226968 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249227684 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249228806 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249231022 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249233005 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249233508 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249234134 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249235578 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@ti211310a341-1526.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249235906 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249235960 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-172-4-88.range86-172.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249237048 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249237081 0 :MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-7-34.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249237091 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249237144 0 :MigoMipo!n=chatzill@84-217-7-34.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249237413 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@ti211310a341-1526.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249238695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249240527 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249240634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is with the quiet < 1249240640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone going to church or something :D < 1249240646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm busy playing pokemon, zzo38-style < 1249240648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not on IRC < 1249240700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but still text based? :P < 1249240709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1249240718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a couple of small graphics in the corner, to make it look more graphical < 1249240721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the text log is the useful bit < 1249240730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is this, exactly? < 1249240738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoddy Battle, it's a pokemon simulator < 1249240750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1249240786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'd just use an emulator and that thingy that uses a networked computer as a connected second gameboy :-P < 1249240825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simulators are better for practice, because you don't have to catch the pokemon first; you can request any pokemon that it's theoretically possible to get, no matter how unlikely < 1249240886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: emulators come with hex-editing thingamajic < 1249240886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1249240888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\ns/s/ < 1249240890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's how NetBattle (presumably the 'pocket monster IRC' that zzo38 used) works < 1249240891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, more of a fuss < 1249240894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more realistic < 1249240895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also more illegal < 1249240901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, no < 1249240908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editing some bits in memor yisn't illegal < 1249240912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but the emulator is < 1249240917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, it's not. < 1249240921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulation is not illegal. < 1249240921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it implies you have an illegal copy of pokemon < 1249240923 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulators are legal; the game images may not be < 1249240926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it does not, ais523. < 1249240930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the game image I was talking about < 1249240945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) you could make a device to read it from a cartridge (b) You *already paid for it/ < 1249240950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/*/ < 1249240956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, zzo made that himself, like everything < 1249240960 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on copyright law in your country < 1249240977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, ok < 1249240988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it turns out zzo38 invented NetBattle, I'll really laugh my head out < 1249240994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, more likely it was a different one < 1249241049 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249241311 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249241336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Rebus" < 1249242327 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-114-024.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249243423 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249243989 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249244760 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249246245 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249246750 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249247757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249248255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249248745 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249249185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi augur. < 1249249190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A naugur. < 1249249502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draft-n wifi can transfer an uncompressed 1920x1200 screenshot over tcp/ip in 0.70s < 1249249506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1249249525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a bit of compression and use a single-purpose protocol and you're pretty close to having a wireless screen < 1249249558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60hz needs 0.01s < 1249249570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compression, you could easily get like 0.3s < 1249249583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single purpose, well the maximum theoretical throughput is like >400mbit < 1249249588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if we say 400mbit < 1249249612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 0.08s < 1249249663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := 12.5 fps < 1249249674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm sure there's faster protocols than wireless.n < 1249249689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/wireless\.n/draft-n wifi/ < 1249250431 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249250754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that DisplayLink thing does 1920x1200 over USB 2; and WirelessUSB/UWB say they can provide the equivalent 480 Mbit/s for 3 meters. < 1249250885 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249251578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249251586 0 :Apoyaturas!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gracenotes < 1249252327 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249252491 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249253044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2008, DisplayLink announced the first Wireless USB products powered by their technology. To date they have announced products or partnerships with Wireless USB technology vendors Alereon[8], Realtek[9], and WiQuest[10]. < 1249253046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249253069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In May 2009, DisplayLink launched its second semiconductor product family, the DL-125, DL-165, and DL-195 USB 2.0 graphics devices. This DL-1x5 family brings improved performance, an increase in maximum resolution to 2048x1152, and the integration of a DVI transmitter and video DAC. The first products to ship with the new DL-1x5 chips were the Samsung Lapfit LD190G and LD220G monitors.[12] < 1249253100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't understand enough to know why that is a lol < 1249253104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but can it handle 60fps/sec always? < 1249253115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's exactly what fizzie's just said, except already thought of < 1249253131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An upcoming 1.1 specification will increase speed to 1 Gbit/s and working frequencies up to 6 GHz. < 1249253131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—[[Wireless USB]] < 1249253177 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249253566 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't much talk about framerates, but since some form of compression is involved, it might have a bit unstable worst-case behaviour. < 1249253619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, their marketing literature is the typical "DisplayLink DL2+ adaptive compression scheme ensures a highly interactive, ultra low latency user experience that is nearly indistinguishable from a traditional monitor connection", but the terms "ultra low" and "nearly" aren't defined anywhere. < 1249253734 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249253749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249253759 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1249253833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single-link DVI (which is enough for 1920x1200 at 60 Hz) data-carrying bandwidth is 3.96 Gbit/s, apparently, so that's what it takes to push an unmodified DVI signal through. (165 MHz clock, one pixel/clock, 24 bits per pixel.) < 1249253844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1249253854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of gbits. < 1249253875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB 3 will do 4.8 Gbit/s, they say. < 1249253882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but ehh how much is that just blargh metadata < 1249253886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of that is < 1249253918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sleep now that i slashed it up! so everybody could get down wit this slang teenagers use now. nice talk. then again, reality is usually more clumsy than what? < 1249253958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: shut up, fungot < 1249253958 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: very little requires lap hackery.) in a function name and arguments as opposed to fnord < 1249253964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i said shut up < 1249253965 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: " i went and implemented them.)) be considered a pattern comprising a subset of l(lbas)), not y. < 1249253976 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715094852]" < 1249253990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lap-hackery sounds a bit indecent. Sort of a mixture of a lap-dance and hacking. (Okay, really gone now.) < 1249254035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, "i sleep now" < 1249254036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was like < 1249254038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually sleeping < 1249254044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you should make it a /quit script < 1249254119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249254164 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249254578 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god.. sometimes reading stackoverflow, it seems the stupid is seeping into my head. make it stop ;_; < 1249254735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe there is a button on your computer that will make it stop. it may have symbol something like a circle interrupted with a crossing bar at the top. < 1249254803 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I should try that sometime. but I think I've already solved it by clicking on an orange square with a white x through it. < 1249254824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may work too < 1249254833 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249254854 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249255026 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249255038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: why would you ever read stackoverflow? < 1249255080 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boredom. getting consensus of general developer community. lolling. < 1249255101 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nowadays it's depressing me < 1249255138 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-114-024.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249255170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: stack overflow is the retarded cousin of the "general developer community" < 1249255173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for the second, you basically find herding cats too unchallenging? < 1249255238 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it is my unfounded opinion that it is actually a pretty accurate cross-section < 1249255245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your opinion sucks < 1249255268 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u < 1249255437 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so anyway, you're saying most developers are smarter than those on SO? < 1249255500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm just saying that SO sucks :P < 1249255552 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THIS SO! < 1249255638 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no. THIS. IS. *is stabbed*) < 1249255676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249255785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have just deduced the consensus of all life forms. it appears to be "breed furiously by cell division" < 1249255873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were some giant forms suggesting something called "sex", but they were such a tiny minority they could just be ignored. < 1249255898 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah well fuck bacterias < 1249255913 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can nuke everything away if we want to < 1249255913 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So shut up < 1249255957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am doubtful of that. < 1249255972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are apparently life forms deep in the earth's crust < 1249256195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could probably nuke them too < 1249256400 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... Ubuntu update time.. this will be a painful 2 days... *prepares to take it like a man* < 1249256452 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1249256470 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEAH LET'S DO THIS < 1249256477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not to mention the bottom of the ocean. < 1249256484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in orbit. < 1249256492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Two days? < 1249256506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a new variant of Ubuntu of which I was not previously aware. < 1249256517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, where updating to the next release takes two days, not an hour. < 1249256531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really ever read Stackoverflow. < 1249256539 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: probably. I'm doing two OS version updates, plus the hundreds of libraries I've needed to update for some time, and all over wireless. < 1249256546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, basically Gracenotes < 1249256550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall read it, and soon after become homicidal. < 1249256551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you disabled the automatic update daemon < 1249256563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neglected to upgrade for a major release < 1249256568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question, Gracenotes < 1249256572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you stupid? < 1249256578 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu. I stuck with 8.04 because it was convenient, and stable. < 1249256588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sure is looking convenient now. 2 days, cool cool. < 1249256589 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no motivation to update. < 1249256598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly, I'm using Windows 3.11. < 1249256605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it has an IRC client. < 1249256609 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now there is an app-need-threshold < 1249256617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are apparently used to Windows. Which updates once every decade. < 1249256631 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: lots of people use 8.04. I AM PROUD TO BE ONE OF THEM < 1249256640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM PROUD TO HAVER UPPERCASE LETTERS < 1249256645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Avoid recursion". < 1249256653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MURDER, I WRITE. < 1249256667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Recursion -is- low level, but that's probably not what they meant. < 1249256670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Anyway, doesn't excuse ignoring the "HEY, YOU, UPDATE THESE PACKAGES" icon. < 1249256678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That takes 5 minutes, tops. Click, click, ignore. < 1249256681 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: eh? I update packages regularly. < 1249256687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"plus the hundreds of libraries I've needed to update for some time" < 1249256696 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because they are not available with this OS < 1249256709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: For a recursive-decent parser in a C-oid language. < 1249256711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never understand people who don't upgrade regularly. < 1249256726 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do fucking update my libraries regularly, but some of the latest versions are not available for 8.04 < 1249256730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, why are you dumb? < 1249256734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: maybe if you're parsing a 2 gig file consisting ((((…()…)))) < 1249256741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: I meant the OS, too. < 1249256748 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I didn't. < 1249256751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Embrace the package manager. < 1249256757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really silly to disregard new OS updates because, on the face of it, you don't need anything in them. < 1249256766 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you all talking about. I use the update manager regularly. < 1249256769 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS SLANDER < 1249256774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: … < 1249256776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what are you doing? < 1249256780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upgrading your faeries? < 1249256782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the OS. < 1249256810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude update;aptitude safe-upgrade -- is that hard to get? < 1249256820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nononono < 1249256824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the upgrade manager in Ubuntu. < 1249256835 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: again, I effectively do that < 1249256842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Stop breaking things. < 1249256844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's bad. < 1249256846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: For upgrading major versions, sure. < 1249256848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't do bad things. < 1249256850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's what he's doing. < 1249256854 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the aptitude update does not include the OS. < 1249256874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. "aptitude update" (a) is using aptitude, which is silly and (b) updates the list of packages. < 1249256878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't upgrade anything. < 1249256890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm a bastard because I care, I swear.) < 1249256895 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are aware that all Ubuntu versions use different repositories? Hence package upgrading is implied in OS upgrade? < 1249256903 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some (not all) packages? < 1249256922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you're saying is completely true and utterly irrelevant to anything I'm saying. < 1249256943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Yes, but that's beside the point. UPGRADE AT MAJOR VERSIONS. < 1249256959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're such angry defenders of the One True Way of computing. < 1249256959 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah, that's what I'm doing < 1249256961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need a team name. < 1249256968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like… the GOOD COMPUTERIZORS. < 1249256968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it updates. < 1249256970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. No. < 1249256976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a year after. < 1249256998 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was new when it came out. it's called complacency, and IT IS OKAY! *makes peace sign* < 1249257000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which in Linux-land is about on par with trying to upgrade a system from DOS 6.0 to Vista) < 1249257016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A year? < 1249257020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was released in April. < 1249257023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I exaggerate. < 1249257025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your years are… weird :P < 1249257034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's not even been a year since the release he's running :P < 1249257050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Wait, Ubuntu does majors more than twice a year? < 1249257052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But srsly guys, update. There's a reason software is changed. < 1249257056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Six-month cycle. < 1249257068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he said he's two majors behind... < 1249257073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he also said 8.10. < 1249257080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he may be updating to the Karmic beta < 1249257088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1249257093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is rather silly. < 1249257093 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.04 was released April 2008, which I'm using < 1249257098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: oh god. < 1249257099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And didn't he say 8.04, not 8.10? < 1249257100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even 8.10? < 1249257109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dayum Gracenotes, you bitch dumb. < 1249257124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bitch dumb, n. Ghettorifically dumb.) < 1249257128 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.10 was released October 2008, which I was busy studying and doing homework and generally being too busy to update < 1249257137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: You are upgrading less often than Debian does stable releases. < 1249257138 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249257144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do realise upgrading to Ubuntu takes one click and it does it in the background, right? < 1249257148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you just reboot in an hour? < 1249257156 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it breaks my sound :( < 1249257163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some epic studying/homework/business that prevents you doing it. < 1249257166 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly I have somewhat of a sound-breaking phobia < 1249257176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it breaks your sound u did it rong. < 1249257182 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249257185 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I held off a kernel upgrade for a month because I was afraid of sound-breaking < 1249257193 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how bitch dumb I am! and proud of it! < 1249257197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a therapist. :P < 1249257201 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it did break my sound, too. < 1249257226 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSA is a cruel bitch. < 1249257233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't use it. < 1249257236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use OSSv4! < 1249257248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: He does have a point, though: Ubuntu has done fucking weird things with their sound in the past year or so. < 1249257252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I hate sound systems. They're so analogue. < 1249257258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't we have digital speakers? ;_; < 1249257268 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ALSA... I must come back to it, like an abused housewife < 1249257269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They switched to PulseAudio... And they used a broken build of it. < 1249257278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh ubuntu have a ton of fuckups < 1249257281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1249257313 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even going to try Karmic < 1249257321 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in two months I'll get back to you < 1249257347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: I suggest you try Arch, so that it can sneak all its upgrades in as innocuous standard package upgrade fare. < 1249257358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's For Your Own Good(TM). < 1249257420 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu arch advocate < 1249257444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: I'm a computherapist. < 1249257449 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. < 1249257456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prescribe the solution that will ease your ailments. < 1249257458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing more. < 1249257469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, you have no right to talk. A year in Linux of no updates is like a decade in Windows-land. < 1249257474 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my software sources preferences indicate that I only upgrade to long term support releases < 1249257478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit changes fast. < 1249257485 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes that < 1249257486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sometimes it's placebo; I once rebranded Ubuntu as Gobuntu — without modification — to appease a freetard who longed for integration and hardware support.) < 1249257492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((Oh wait, that actually happened. :P)) < 1249257539 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"New distribution release '8.10' is available." See?? Ubuntu says it's new! < 1249257574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ÞOU ſHALT UPDATE < 1249257589 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh pikhq, you're making me so thorny < 1249257619 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay... 32 KB/s update... < 1249257650 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it's really picking up now, 56 KB/s < 1249257650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :I like big eths and I cannot lie, you other esolangers can't deny | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249257662 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so fast, isn't it? ^_^ < 1249257673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: 700KB/s in your face bitch. < 1249257680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: 56 kilobytes per second is tolerable. < 1249257693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss my campus Internet connection, though. < 1249257699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 megabits/sec. :D < 1249257700 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's 64... now 67... now 1... < 1249257704 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11, I mean. damn this is variable. < 1249257719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 131072KB/s in your face bitch. < 1249257757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Seriously? You can get 24mbit/s for, like, regular internet prices in the UK, as long as you don't live somewhere odd like me. < 1249257766 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do miss my campus connection too, it peaked at 800 KB/s, but better than this < 1249257780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we even have fibre-optic 25/50mbit in some places. < 1249257784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Erm. Actually, I think that was s/bits/bytes/ < 1249257785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Scandinavia has 100mbit up the wazoo. < 1249257801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Korea has 1Gbit, but I don't think servers are fast enough :P < 1249257804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, seriously. You can hardly get 10mbit/s here. < 1249257813 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meow < 1249257817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some internet guy's grandma got 4Gbit as a promotional thingy to encourage companies to speed up the interwebs. < 1249257819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sweden < 1249257832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so you got ~80mbit < 1249257835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~= 100mbit < 1249257835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here in the US, that would be 50Mbit. < 1249257853 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, 1586 software packages are going to be upgraded to 8.10 < 1249257857 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :told you so < 1249257863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: That's… not a lot. < 1249257874 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to download.. 1.7 GB. gawd :/ < 1249257879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I conjecture that US technology sucks so much because you have a shitty economy. < 1249257884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Peanuts. < 1249257896 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on wireless it ain't < 1249257909 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoiled. < 1249257927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: n-draft, bitch. < 1249257932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100mbit/sec TCP/IP wireless. < 1249257942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most wireless chips support it nowadays and routers are affordable. < 1249257946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*draft-n < 1249257950 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for me < 1249257960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you suck. < 1249257964 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, I think my ISP has it out for me ;_; < 1249258004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL TECHNOLOGY SUCKS < 1249258005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING SUCKS < 1249258030 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249258031 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS ME < 1249258038 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CUDDLE TEIM < 1249258042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION CUDDLES < 1249258048 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION CUDDLES < 1249258059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL NOW SOLVE THE EVERYTHING PROBLEM BY ENSLAVING EVERYONE < 1249258065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND FORCING THEM TO MAKE THINGS THAT DO NOT SUCK < 1249258090 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see.. which video had I downloaded.. ah. Team America time < 1249259672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice to only have one app at once < 1249259723 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249260823 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249261024 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249261031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Wrong again. It's an ancient Zionist symbol for "jew-gold".]] < 1249261283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of no context where that is *not* a blatantly antisemetic comment. < 1249261303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: When it's part of a reddit joke-thread. < 1249261316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/96vkn/inwe_trust_start_the_movement/c0bmz17 < 1249261360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1249261402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also possible to oppose zionism but not jews, but obviously that comment wouldn't exactly fit that if it were serious. < 1249261491 0 :p4yn0!n=ircap@62.42.52.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249261495 0 :p4yn0!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all < 1249261502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1249261518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who're you, where did you come from, and where am I? < 1249261540 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249261546 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was the originator of the quote "wherever you go, there you are" < 1249261567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.figmentfly.com/bb/popculture4.html < 1249261576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Danial M, "The quotation is much more ancient ... from around 1440 AD. You can find the following quote at http://www.christianitytoday.com/le/2006/002/14.73.html : "So, the cross is always ready and waits for you everywhere. You cannot escape it no matter where you run, for wherever you go you are burdened with yourself. Wherever you go, there you are." —Thomas a Kempis, Imitation of Christ, ca. A.D. 1440 < 1249261589 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus fucking christ. < 1249261602 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or kempis imitating christ. < 1249261608 0 :p4yn0!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249261621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that guy wouldn't have lasted long anyway. < 1249261629 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, sorry for being offtopic and alienating him, or whatever happened < 1249261637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for being offtopic? < 1249261638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1249261766 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i certainly struck gold with that random question, seems like further scholarship is definitely needed < 1249261888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had the ability to be interested in utterly boring things :( < 1249261921 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im interested in everything, sometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective < 1249261943 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote [...] sometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective < 1249261945 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :58| [...] sometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective < 1249261971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249262004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: can i take a guess at the secret to such interest? < 1249262008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guess is "lots and lots of drugs" < 1249262029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(failing that, "insanity") < 1249262048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have similar problems from time to time. < 1249262056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problems?! < 1249262060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds wonderful! < 1249262069 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats probably correct, its been a long time since 'the day' but i think i probably blew out (or woke up) some unusual synaptic structures duing the years 1990-97 or so < 1249262073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for certain definitions of "problem". < 1249262084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 's called "autism". < 1249262106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called autism if you define autism to be not being able to get out of bed because the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective. < 1249262115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would happen to be a definition without much precedent. < 1249262119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(much = any) < 1249262131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just an aspect thereof. < 1249262138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crap definition for it, though. < 1249262142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: Autism makes you shit flowers, rainbows and a keen interest in stamps. < 1249262153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can fly. < 1249262157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes you shit a keen interest in stamps? < 1249262161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive. < 1249262175 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as for the 'you can fly' - google some disney movie called 'the boy who could fly' - PROVEN FACT! < 1249262184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1249262206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Hmm. That makes me want a smopes.com. < 1249262212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like snopes, but has bullshit instead. < 1249262280 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloaded 475 of 1866 packages < 1249262291 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..and the big ones haven't even come yet < 1249262292 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installing kde5 from the future? < 1249262303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: No, he's upgrading from Ubuntu 8.04. < 1249262312 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then another one after this < 1249262314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because apparently homework stopped him taking an hour to upgrade to 8.10 or 9.04. < 1249262326 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly. my sound. < 1249262337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mental issues. :P < 1249262346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…and that's saying something coming from me. < 1249262355 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugg, why try to inplace upgrade rather than do a clean install and transfer? isnt inplace upgrading both gonna take longer and (50%+ chance) bork your setup? < 1249262372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no. < 1249262377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It generally works fine on Ubuntu. < 1249262385 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say this is a long time debian + ooboontoo user < 1249262387 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it probably will bork my setup. < 1249262387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that most in-place upgrades suck. < 1249262388 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as a < 1249262392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: wfm /shrug < 1249262418 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean install would probably take much longer with what I have < 1249262431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I still have trouble believing that most OSes can't do in-place upgrades. < 1249262446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A decent component system handles it trivially. < 1249262458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not because I disbelieve that such OSes exist, but that I disbelieve that we're still in the freaking 80s. :P < 1249262462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I think it should just deactivate all software that can't handle the new versions. < 1249262466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd speed up compatibility. < 1249262476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You could, of course, manually activate the old version for certain programs.) < 1249262500 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess everyone works out their own workflows, i always have about 4 bootable partitions per box, and when a new distro release comes out, i generally choose the oldest/least used partition, pull any data i want out of it, and install on top of that, leaving whatever my most used system pre-install untouched and just using/copying its data as needed < 1249262515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: I have yet to have a distro upgrade break for me. < 1249262521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I've been using Linux since 2002. < 1249262530 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i commend your administrative skills :) < 1249262538 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249262555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I don't switch distros often. < 1249262562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using Gentoo since like 2004 or 2005. < 1249262576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo solves the X problem by making you do it all manually, forall X. :P < 1249262587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with Debian. < 1249262591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1249262595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some definitions of Debian. < 1249262597 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think so, gentoo has a ton of automation, its really nice, dont you think? < 1249262607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Gentoo :P < 1249262612 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like eselect and so forth, i find gentoo easy to admin really < 1249262613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I mostly hate source-based distros in general. < 1249262622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm no fan of Gentoo users. < 1249262625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, no. Just emerge -avuDN world && revdep-rebuild ;# et viola. < 1249262641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Shaddup. < 1249262665 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is, of course, mah first distribution < 1249262682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first distro was Slackware. < 1249262693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that's skewed most of my Linux usage. < 1249262702 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards the good < 1249262775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that, I toyed with Red Hat (eeeeeewwwww), Debian (stable was t3h old then, not just old), and eventually settled into Gentoo on my desktop and Debian on anything I don't want to fuck with. < 1249262868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like computers to do things for me. < 1249262893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo does things for me. < 1249262951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of. < 1249262966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaddya mean, sort of? < 1249262980 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the userland you get from any gnu/linux distro is always going to be equivalent or whatever the user wants, i havent found any significant differences other than the details of the init scripts and package managers between distros < 1249263000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Arch uses BSD init, which is nice. < 1249263006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not like SysV init. It is not kind to me. < 1249263018 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you switch to BSD the userland you tend to build doesnt seem very different to me at least < 1249263019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Gentoo uses neither. < 1249263060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix is unix, so it is, so it sucks, but it's here and everyone who can do better — like, say, us — are sitting around on their asses doing nothing. < 1249263073 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not true, im using and developing and releasing plan9 software < 1249263101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, it uses SysV init, but only as a wrapper for /sbin/rc. < 1249263102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9 isn't even significantly better; it progresses the Unix paradigm, thus running into its limits, but this is not much of an improvement. < 1249263107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to minimize breakage) < 1249263110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just shows that, yes, it is a limited paradigm. < 1249263132 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what about the 9p protocol and 9p fs interfaces as something entirely independent from plan9, despite having been developed as part of it? < 1249263161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a hierarchical filesystem. I don't like them. They are not kind to me and they are not all that useful, and there are far better things. < 1249263176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, they're related to hierarchical filesystems; whatever.) < 1249263212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's the best we've got mostly because the alternative is a notable lack of paradigm. So, most people enter UNIX, are impressed that there *is* a paradigm, and dispute that it could even be changed for the better... < 1249263228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combine with UNIX being good enough for most purposes, and you get 40 years of UNIX. < 1249263231 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249263242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I rarely consider what other people want when dabbling in such things. < 1249263246 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1249263247 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi. < 1249263253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1249263268 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hrmph, im not sure what you say really makes sense from a fundamentals perspective - the idea that you can say hierarchical filesystems and the general idea of file i/o as semantics for how you 'control your turing machine' seems a bit broad... < 1249263286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1249263288 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say they are 'not all that useful' which doesnt seem to make sense < 1249263309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hate files as separate from objects, I hate disk as separate from memory, and I hate tree hierarchy. < 1249263334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orthogonal persistence — FUCK YEAH. < 1249263354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chuck in persistence of continuations and we've got some hot lovin' suspendable persistin' action. < 1249263363 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok, 9p actually i think addresses all of those concerns - it has the idea that 'objects == files' in its paradigm - it absolutely is designed to abstract away from disk vs. memory - and it doesnt impose a tree hierarchy, even < 1249263389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: This is a very Smalltalkish way of doing things. < 1249263393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: 9P is basically RPC, so it's a leaky abstraction. Anyway. No. < 1249263402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9P still has plain text as the quantum. < 1249263412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate plain text for anything other than plain text. < 1249263416 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what information cant be represented by plain text? none. < 1249263425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: OK, then. Why does C have any types other than char *? < 1249263442 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, in a way it doesnt! it offers semantic labeling and handling for convenience < 1249263449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It most certainly does, mycroftiv. < 1249263455 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as i surely dont need to explain to you, you get to cast anything to void... < 1249263471 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recast as char, work with it that way...send it back, if itll fit...or maybe give you a nice crash... < 1249263478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will only get internal representations. < 1249263483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not applicable to what I am talking about. < 1249263510 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249263548 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i admit you are probably a lot more expert on this than i am, im just a guy who tries to write software to do stuff using the abstractions that make the most sense to me < 1249263569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: As an aside, have you considered learning Haskell? < 1249263579 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, thats kind of a slow moving ongoing project for me < 1249263584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expert, mycroftiv? I'm just a deranged 13 year old. :P < 1249263594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But consider me flattered or something. < 1249263602 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you talk a good game, at least < 1249263610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because I'm always right, duh. < 1249263634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the best way to come to love rich persisted objects is via orthogonal persistence. < 1249263651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never lose anything, when coding you never worry about losing anything, and it's truly a living environment of objects < 1249263652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1249263655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is simple: < 1249263655 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love rich persisted objects, its exactly why i like plan9 and 9p :) < 1249263663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of memory is continually persisted to disk. < 1249263670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory = cache for disk. < 1249263673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's IT. < 1249263678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no filesystem. No files. < 1249263692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have your runtime objects, and that's what you keep until you explicitly let go. < 1249263696 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine theres no files...no filesystem too...you may say that im a dreamer...but im not the only one... < 1249263702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely! < 1249263708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lennon was a Smalltalker. < 1249263726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, Smalltalk. < 1249263736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Smalltalk, dammit. :P < 1249263737 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my opinion is that what you just described is exactly the plan9 and 9p design, with a merely semantic difference between the word 'object' and the word 'file' < 1249263742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I don't think Smalltalk persisted. < 1249263748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way back then. < 1249263751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Nononono, it's not. < 1249263757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a value in Plan 9's C. < 1249263757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does these days. < 1249263761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You lose it if you have a crash. < 1249263765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You lose it if your program terminates. < 1249263779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to explicitly hook into the persistence mechanism and come up with a representation. < 1249263781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not it at all. < 1249263789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With orthogonal persistence, you just Use Objects Like That. < 1249263794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they stay there. < 1249263804 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: aha! ok, we are speaking of different layers - i am absolutely not talking about the plan9 os/kernel layer, but the layer of the 9p fs itself! surely smalltalk objects arent persistent if you smash the hsot machine with a hammer or delete the software? < 1249263827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, but orthogonal persistence IS OS layer. < 1249263841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ubiquitous, that's why it works. < 1249263846 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i completely agree taht you need to fully push these principles down to all layers, and that plan9 does not do that < 1249263865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Yes, and once you do that, you realise that you're persisting the rich objects and not a plain text representation of them. < 1249263881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you realise that there's a reason we program with those rich semantics, and no reason not to persist like that too. < 1249263885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO at least < 1249263906 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, as a turing fundamentalist, i dont think there is a difference between 'rich objects' and 'plain text' - unless you have a physical OS that isnt using binary at the transistor level? < 1249263916 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awaits finally being able to install anki < 1249263930 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anki fuck yeah < 1249263942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Your argument reeks of "Brainfuck is just as good as Haskell because they're both turing complete". < 1249263951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes… technically. < 1249263957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in practice, no, that's not how they match up. < 1249263971 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i think im trying to stake out something much more limited, which is: < 1249263975 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249263990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that we're agreeing but you're using awkward terminology. < 1249263991 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you cant critique 9p on the basis of the underlying OS any more than you can critique smalltalk on the basis of the physical hardware it runs on" < 1249264002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By plain text, I mean the kind of thing that you find on unix/plan 9 systems. < 1249264002 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249264009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flat file, ad-hoc formats, pseudo-human-readable. < 1249264011 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWKwords < 1249264017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean binary representations of objects, which is what I prefer. < 1249264021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they're both bits, technically. < 1249264024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the paradigm is different. < 1249264043 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats just like 'machine storage'! a rich object is always going to be what you get at the 'content layer' after you WORK WITH whatever your basic raw storage format is! thats what plaintext is, its just like binary at the machine level < 1249264051 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you are making a layer confusion in your thinking < 1249264056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"after you WORK WITH whatever your basic raw storage format is" < 1249264058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See! < 1249264065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With orthogonal persistence there is no format. < 1249264077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you clunk to disk is what you use. < 1249264080 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your physical chips liquify and dont use binary? < 1249264100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.........................whut < 1249264114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There is one thing that makes me vomit about this: the data should be independent of the programs. I am not sure how you would pull that off. < 1249264126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why on earth should it be? < 1249264129 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, you dont have a problem with having your rich objects stored in binary in the physical memory right?" < 1249264132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objects have methods ;-) < 1249264139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I kill you. < 1249264146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Smalltalk, bitch. < 1249264153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I kill you. < 1249264159 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what do you mean independent of the programs? < 1249264162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Again? < 1249264167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: plz read ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ < 1249264168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes. < 1249264175 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you are OK with binary storage of objects at the physical layer, and the microcode/firmware or whatever you call it translating your smalltalk into those operations < 1249264177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: I really think you're pulling at straws here < 1249264178 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain what you mean by that. < 1249264196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: file "foo.mp3" can be handled by any program I have on my hard drive that is willing to read a file. < 1249264200 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isnt it ok for there to be a layer that works with data as plaintext, as an intermediate stage between binary and the rich objects? < 1249264202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though not all programs will make sense of it) < 1249264204 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1249264210 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean non-proprietary formats, essentially. < 1249264213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1249264215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, augur? < 1249264222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... What? < 1249264230 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what what < 1249264249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at reading comprehension. Epicly. < 1249264252 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: can you network with these rich objects? if you send them via ethernet framing, does the fact that they become binary/plaintext during transmission across the network destroy them somehow? < 1249264253 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1249264259 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"augur: file "foo.mp3" can be handled by any program I have on my hard drive that is willing to read a file." < 1249264260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: That would work, sure… but it's also kind of a silly step and will just use more disk. Also, the fact is that in 9P, you address objects with paths — which is not how you address them in an object system (e.g. "self users at: 3" is not /users/3) < 1249264277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Unix and 9P's model is not just "making objects plaintext before bunking them to disk". < 1249264289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That would work → plaintext intermediatry) < 1249264294 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean "handled by a text editor", i take this to mean "handled by anything that plays music because they all play mp3s" < 1249264322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Handled by anything that handles files in general. < 1249264329 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. handled in what sense? < 1249264331 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hm, in a very important sense I think 'making objects plaintext for convenience while reading/writing them' is absolutely the essence of unix design < 1249264343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat foo.mp3 ;# that's handling it. < 1249264346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not usefully, but it is. < 1249264350 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that in no sense is unix attempting to prevent you from creating higher level systematic abstractions that have nothing to do with plaintext < 1249264353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: That's not a convenience, it's just pointless. < 1249264358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a decent object system. < 1249264371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Unix's shambles of assorted binary blobs operating in low-level languages. < 1249264375 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, ok, but im pretty sure that thats essentially possible regardless. ignoring the fact that certain programs have certain expectations of file contents. < 1249264397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Anyway, "while reading/writing them" < 1249264402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With orthogonal persistence, you don't see that. < 1249264406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You modify the object, it's modified on disk. < 1249264410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS does it, you never notice. < 1249264417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no reading or writing, there is just "is". < 1249264580 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjectivistOs? Is == IS? a == a? < 1249264605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawl. < 1249264621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean "there is just 'is'" as in the objects are just there, except there implies them being in a place. < 1249264631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I just said is; they exist. < 1249264775 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all im saying is, there is a real and messy world of wires and circuits and binary bits that has to be brought into compliance with the abstractions you create. I dont see how you can escape, at some layer, having to work with things in the semantics that the wires/spec imposes on you. thats all. < 1249264890 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unix plaintext abstaction was created to meet the practical needs of how you build a system where the user can interact with rich objects and the wires and magnetic bits can stay synchronized with that. it is certainly not perfect, and could be much improved - but i think unix plaintext handling exists at the 'dealing with hardware' layer more than the 'telling you what abstractions to use' layer. < 1249265081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree because I see code handling this supposedly low-level "abstraction" all the time. < 1249265083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In applications. < 1249265087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Plan 9 ones. < 1249265088 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i totally agree < 1249265103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think you're underestimating the culture of making your own shitty ad-hoc plain text formats and putting them in your own ad-hoc locations. < 1249265109 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said the work of creating the 'ladder of abstractions' and making systems be consistent was complete! < 1249265131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249265161 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i think you are confusing me with a defender of traditional unix...i think you are making the mistake of confusing something that is a progressive step in the evolutionary process with something that is an obstacle < 1249265186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure Plan 9 can go further, but we'll see. My other beef with it is that it keeps the outdated notion of an "application"; a 70s-era exposure of kernel structurse. < 1249265187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*structures < 1249265191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun talking, anyway. I've got to go sleep now. I know people on IRC generally don't do that. < 1249265195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249265217 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1249265229 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv < 1249265234 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think to understand ehird < 1249265240 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it like this < 1249265250 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects exist in memory during runtime right? < 1249265276 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure - i think i understand his ideas about breaking down the traditional 'hardware based' abstractions, absolutely < 1249265313 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. the stuff in memory during runtime is whatever "format" a running object has < 1249265314 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1249265350 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, not completely sure if you are talking about the abstract type as defined by the language/compiler etc or the machine representation as transistor bits/logic, but sure < 1249265360 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever is in ram < 1249265363 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cache < 1249265395 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one layer, it is logical strucutre - at another layer, its physical charge < 1249265405 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can be mapped onto each other precisely, of course < 1249265406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a smalltalk like system, the act of saving a file, or anything actually, amounts to nothing more than copying the memory content to the harddrive. < 1249265414 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, i know this, absolutely < 1249265419 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt involve encoding it into a special format for "representing" the object < 1249265426 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, wait, not true < 1249265426 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a raw binary dump to the harddrive. < 1249265441 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have a ton of lower level firmware type stuff going on < 1249265451 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats not part of the objects in question. < 1249265466 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither is the unix plaintext representation of data part of the 'objects' as dealt with by application software < 1249265473 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two different layers of the abstraction < 1249265498 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, except that the plaintext representations of data are /representations of data/ < 1249265516 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the low level firmware and os driver control of a hard drive are also representations of data < 1249265521 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to the raw data itself, that would normally exist in memory when the computer is processing it < 1249265532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but different data. < 1249265560 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a larger set of data, but the 'content data' is still a subset thereof < 1249265598 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can talk about small talk and 'abstract away' from the os drivers for the hard drive and its firmware - you can talk about unix software and its semantics and extract away from the unix os handling of the data before sending it to the disk < 1249265641 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can send data over a network without the fact that it was encapsulated via tcp/ip somehow 'contaminating it' at the application layer - you can do the same with an os's representation of data and its software < 1249265671 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way you can escape from the particularities of the hard work of handling your hardware and formats - you just build tools that let you work as a programmer and user at layers of abstraction beyond that < 1249265688 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if smalltalk exists as smalltalk regardlesss of the hardware platform < 1249265725 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can certainly create whatever kind of environment you want as a set of abstractions on top of any os that gives you the ability to create a working implementation < 1249265804 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thats why i keep saying i think this is a 'layer confusion' where you are expecting that a lower layer should conform to the semantics and syntax of a higher layer - where you cant actually do that, unless you make your chips out of ideas rather than transistors < 1249265882 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its great if you can make your layers as transparent and consistent as possible, and we definitely can evolve much further in that direction < 1249265996 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact that we have to store our data fundamentally as electrical charges, and stuff it through networking protocols, and read it from disks using various hardware bus interface specifications - these are annoyances, but they are just the 'accidental material' of creating things, just as the marble is not the sculpture < 1249266205 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that being said - i understand that *plastic* was created because marble is hard to work with, and having something easier to shape is valuable - and ehird is talking about increasing the *plasticity* of data and how we work with it < 1249266231 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i 100% agree with and support < 1249267914 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"raise Hand, 'wave'" < 1249274233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249274363 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249277140 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249278433 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249278789 0 :vijay_!n=vijay@71.227.119.144 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249278951 0 :vijay_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249279569 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my packages be be downloadin' < 1249279621 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..still < 1249286084 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249286399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249286400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249289304 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-207.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249289866 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249290566 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-168-223.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1249291407 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249291696 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249292162 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!" < 1249293485 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249293680 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249293740 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249295103 0 :fizziew!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249295568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I had completely forgotten about that thing. < 1249297444 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my packages be installin' < 1249297621 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck < 1249297638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon your packages be explodin'. < 1249297717 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2 day forecast was not so unrealistic < 1249298904 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249298904 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249298904 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249298904 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249298943 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249298943 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249298943 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249298943 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249299989 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249300004 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a proper beer program?: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/InfChessPro#Examples < 1249300090 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249300092 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also work on a new paper RPG system, Icosahedral RPG, but some things still I didn't figure it out yet, what should be the rules for multiplying a spell by another spell (or itself)? < 1249300316 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249300316 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249300316 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249300316 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249300349 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249300351 0 :ski__!n=md9slj@remote3.student.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249300374 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249300374 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249300374 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249300374 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249300482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, what's this mistake < 1249300596 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-88-184.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249301086 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249301726 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249302508 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249302824 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249302847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has corpses in his kitchen < 1249302940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fly corpses) < 1249302951 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O! < 1249302979 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What doesn't kill you, makes you hard of hearing. < 1249303042 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a proper beer program?: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/InfChessPro#Examples < 1249303049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also work on a new paper RPG system, Icosahedral RPG, but some things still I didn't figure it out yet, what should be the rules for multiplying a spell by another spell (or itself)? < 1249303129 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What people would put all the blood in a bowl and then throw all of the cigarettes in the same bowl? < 1249303594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…what? < 1249303650 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was in Akagi manga book. < 1249303654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had blood on my hands that may or may not have been mine (was probably mine) < 1249303784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I killed a mosquito by accident. It had just bitten me) < 1249303821 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249303821 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249303821 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249303821 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249303836 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard that only female mosquitoes bite you. < 1249303942 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249303942 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249303942 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249303942 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249303962 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249304017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is all QUIT and JOIN a lot in a past few minutes? < 1249304047 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249304047 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249304047 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249304048 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249304157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249304170 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249304170 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249304170 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249304170 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249304171 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249304612 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-98-199.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249304782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249304986 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249305084 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249305086 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS FIREFOX ON 8.10 SO SLOW < 1249305110 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats his graphics card into pulpy submission < 1249305194 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249305846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS FIREFOX SO SLOW ON THIS PENTIUM III? < 1249306000 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous lagging, or to take arms against a sea of graphics cards, and by opposing make them effing work? < 1249306024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives Gracenotes $15bux < 1249306028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a nvidia card < 1249306303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a nvidia card. It sucks < 1249306362 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik it's a 8.10 thing < 1249306523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you suck < 1249306556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you know of a site like imgur, but for audio? < 1249306565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filebin.ca < 1249306584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty, as soon as Firefox regains sanity < 1249306603 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikimedia commons. if you freely license it. and prove its encyclopedic worth. < 1249306610 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO IT < 1249306610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't want reddit hitting diagonalfish < 1249306618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, there is no encyclopedic worth < 1249306641 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must thrust encyclopedic worth into it < 1249306675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: to think that reddit will hit anything you submit is statistically nonsensical < 1249306693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway, filebin will cause a download. < 1249306701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tindeck if you want a player; must be freely licensed. < 1249306778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, I doubt that people will want to redistribute this < 1249306828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Reddit will absolutely not hit something they have to save and open. < 1249306842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion, self-defeating prophecy.\ < 1249306845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$// < 1249306878 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you mean self-fulfilling. < 1249306895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sounds stupid < 1249306897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1249306924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: no < 1249306925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-defeating < 1249306928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reconsiders doing anything with this at this point < 1249306929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/unknownsongs.wav < 1249306974 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is /r/self an appropriate place to ask for information like what songs the unknown songs are? < 1249306977 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like that? < 1249306983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, no. < 1249307005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow my ears just cringed listening to that. I didn't know that was possible. < 1249307158 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard crowd today, eh < 1249307180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bet bitches < 1249307208 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people bet cash < 1249307223 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a sec, ehird sounded a bit like Randall Munroe < 1249307237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you bet bitches" is totally what xkcd would say. < 1249307239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To wit: < 1249307243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you bet bitches < 1249307345 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is that sort of thing inappropriate for /r/self ? < 1249307363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it work as a self post? No. < 1249307366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED. < 1249307372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh >.> < 1249307387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE < 1249307388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then I'll ask about a game < 1249307437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? Are you just trying to ask… something? :P < 1249307455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1249307462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor, lonely Sgeo. < 1249307473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to find out more information about a game I found out about in 2001 or earlier < 1249307497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know if/when it died, don't know if what I remember about it is a mere hallucination, or anything < 1249307528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION replies to a comment with an obscure reference < 1249307595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You seem to have nostalgia but no aoknalgia. :P < 1249307642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't get that that was a pun until google failed to return anything < 1249307697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm surprised you get the pun even afterwards. < 1249307709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's not really a pun. < 1249307710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no/aok < 1249307713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a neologism. < 1249307715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I barely get it < 1249307716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh, haha. < 1249307719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's… no. < 1249307721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not intentional. < 1249307742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't get it < 1249307756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nostalgia = nostos + algos; aoknalgia = aoknos + algos; aoknos is one of the seventy billion words that an English → Ancient Greek dictionary gave me for "present". < 1249307802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1249307858 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neologism by wild guessing < 1249307874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which was a long-winded way of saying "Wow, you really like dead games". < 1249307877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Quite so. < 1249307926 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I was tuning into my interblogotube the other day < 1249307930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, it's funny, I missed Cybertown, but when I was able to visit regularly again, I stopped missing it quite so much < 1249307946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no longer feel desparate to see the 3d < 1249307952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do miss the community though < 1249307972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So you're a necrophiliac, essentially. < 1249307993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249308011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you're really obsessed with VR games. < 1249308038 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am obsessed with tickle-torturing ehird! < 1249308047 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1249308053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…okay… < 1249308059 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tickle* < 1249308098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249308101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/972hb/any_information_about_this_old_probably_now_dead/ < 1249308124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hahaha those three points are hilariously vague < 1249308140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is my memory < 1249308161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any information about this thing? < 1249308165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that it was a thing < 1249308169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think you could do things < 1249308174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the things had things. < 1249308178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds more details < 1249308189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249308261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/anonymity/ durp durp < 1249308418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I think I remember where I found that gamer < 1249308420 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*game < 1249308432 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/anonymity+null/ < 1249308463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Yes? < 1249308468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said in the post, :P < 1249308477 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I validated your assertion! < 1249308494 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be more encouraged about looking there if there was evidence that it contained information about a site that I found around the same time as this mysterious game < 1249308519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does +null do, exactly? < 1249308537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how did ehird make a superficially anonymous reddit in the first place? < 1249308539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSS? < 1249308541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249308555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do /r/a+b+c/ < 1249308560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably null is an empty subreddit < 1249308569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's awesome < 1249308570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this of course disables custom css < 1249308577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the main page is e.g. /r/blah+blah+blah/ essentially < 1249308616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will I get an orange envelop if someone replies to my post? < 1249308622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do I have to check it manually? < 1249308641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249308687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: By the way, delete it, it belongs in AskReddit. < 1249308689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1249308705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love poking tft screens < 1249308709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little trail! < 1249308709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing something saying that AskReddit is for insightful questions < 1249308724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't insightful don't ask? :P < 1249308874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+B=C/E < 1249309008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EA+EB=C < 1249309010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What of it? < 1249309049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E/R=sin(R)/cos(arctan(A*B))+phi < 1249309103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs, screaming, from the trig < 1249309142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pull the trig. < 1249309144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ger. < 1249309235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram Alpha sez: < 1249309238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : solve Z=(sin(R)/cos(arctan(A*B))+((1+sqrt(5))/2))*R < 1249309245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Z = 1/2 (2 R sqrt(A^2 B^2+1) sin(R)+sqrt(5) R+R) < 1249309247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The moar you know < 1249309467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..I assume that what you posted was a rendering of usage of Wolfram Alpha as though it were an IRC conversation, as opposed to Wolfram Alpha being available in some IRC channel? < 1249309505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1249309508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: However. < 1249309514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram solve Z=(sin(R)/cos(arctan(A*B))+((1+sqrt(5))/2))*R < 1249309520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo? < 1249309524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi, HackEgo. < 1249309527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wolfram solve Z=(sin(R)/cos(arctan(A*B))+((1+sqrt(5))/2))*R < 1249309528 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solve Z sin R cos arctan A B \ \ 1 sqrt 5 2 \ \ R \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ solve \ \ Z \ \ sin R cos tan 1 A B \ \ 1 2 \ \ 1 \ \ 5 \ \ R \ \ Result: \ \ Z \ \ 1 2 \ \ 2R \ \ A2 B2 \ \ 1 sin R \ \ 5 R \ \ R \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) on August 3, 2009 from Champaign, IL. © < 1249309533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there we go. < 1249309535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just slow. < 1249309547 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you solve that? < 1249309549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You should really make it use the plain text forms. < 1249309552 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't say what variable to solve < 1249309557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: It guesses < 1249309570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it jsut ended up reformulating what I gave it :P < 1249309572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just < 1249309666 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has too many variables < 1249309667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... a message-box popped up from w|a: "You are about to log in to the site "www37.wolframalpha.com" with the username "xss", but the website does not require authentication. This may be an attempt to trick you. Is "www37.wolframalpha.com" the site you want to visit?" < 1249309674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249309688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you can tell w|a that "solve [equation] for [var]". < 1249309688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Going to wolframalpha.com, I assume < 1249309691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249309692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W|A < 1249309696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Windows Live Authentication or something < 1249309697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249309728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telling it to solve for Z changes nothing, anyway. < 1249309767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, since it was already solving for Z. And it doesn't seem to be able to say anything sensible for R. < 1249309843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you simplify by removing that last "*R" you get a rather ugly solution when saying "solve for R". < 1249309861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What solution is it? Me lazy. < 1249309869 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use Mathematica directly < 1249309873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, /me tries < 1249309880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R = -sin^(-1)((2 Z sqrt(A^2 B^2+1)-sqrt(5) sqrt(A^2 B^2+1)-sqrt(A^2 B^2+1))/(2 (A^2 B^2+1)))+2 pi n+pi and A^2 B^2+1!=0 and n element Z, R = sin^(-1)((2 Z sqrt(A^2 B^2+1)-sqrt(5) sqrt(A^2 B^2+1)-sqrt(A^2 B^2+1))/(2 (A^2 B^2+1)))+2 pi n and A^2 B^2+1!=0 and n element Z, B = +-i/A and Z = 1/2 (1+sqrt(5)) and A!=0 < 1249309889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really doesn't look as pretty in the plaintext form. < 1249309898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heyy it got pi involved < 1249309900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1249309950 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well duh < 1249309954 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has trig functionqs < 1249310012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1249310014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boooring < 1249310220 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249310220 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249310220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249310220 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249310220 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249310696 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249310696 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-88-184.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249310696 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1249310696 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249310696 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1249310762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi mycroftiv < 1249310764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, pi's lurking everywhere; "integrate e^(-x^2) from -infinity to infinity". < 1249310836 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's in a bucnh of integrals < 1249310837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly boggles the mind :P < 1249310845 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then again, so's e < 1249310998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee < 1249311100 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you find the loser numbers < 1249311105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249311106 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the golden number < 1249311118 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a couple of gigs < 1249311120 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249311120 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they never break through < 1249311154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: xD < 1249311164 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249311164 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249311164 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249311164 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249311177 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NETSPLIT D: < 1249311202 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249311202 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249311202 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249311202 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249311309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaa < 1249312159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the fairly likely event of the software crashing, a wire coming loose, a component failing, or the batteries running low, the wheels will stop and the entire kinetic energy of the system will be used to accelerate my head toward the ground. < 1249312426 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249312426 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249312426 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249312427 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249312475 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249312475 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249312475 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249312475 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249314712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://labnol.blogspot.com/2007/01/alt-shift-print-screen-scary-keyboard.html absentmindedly tried this on Ubuntu >.> < 1249315040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate stupid blogs with stupid posts. < 1249315490 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1249315491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249315854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like ↑. < 1249315894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CUPERTINO, California—August 3, 2009—Apple® today announced that Dr. Eric Schmidt, chief executive officer of Google, is resigning from Apple’s Board of Directors, a position he has held since August 2006. < 1249315962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Eric Schmidt cited a conflict of interest. < 1249315969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1249315978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Understandable, though if they really think Chrome OS is a competitor to OS X… < 1249315982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then they're on crack) < 1249315990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Android, though, yeah. < 1249316015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome OS is more of a competitor to Apple TV than OS X. < 1249316019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and even that's a stretch) < 1249316044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, Chrome OS is for browsin' the web and chattin' and documentin'. < 1249316049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple TV is for playing music and movies. < 1249316054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how that works. < 1249316082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're both OSes for 'appliances', not full-fledged computers. < 1249316088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit of a stretch still. < 1249316097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least in the same ballpark. < 1249316105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooort offfffffffffffffffffffffff. < 1249316113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1249316131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Nice attempt at a cover up by Apple “Unfortunately, as Google enters more of Apple’s core businesses, with Android and now Chrome OS, Eric’s effectiveness as an Apple Board member will be significantly diminished..." But we know its about Apple rejecting Google's apps]] < 1249316133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ lol wat < 1249316138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reddit sure is full of conspiracy theories. < 1249316150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249316170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apple rejected Google Voice stuff from the iPhone and were dicks and told Google to refund and stuff) < 1249316174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But err, no.) < 1249316249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I know everyone on reddit thinks Apple and Google are like Jesus and Buddha]] < 1249316250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, full of strawmen set up just so they can get popular by being contradicted. < 1249316259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since every second comment on reddit is "Apple sux lol". < 1249316293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat, someone denying the Macintosh was influential. < 1249316298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS I DON'T EVEN LIKE APPLE ANY MORE < 1249316300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT YOU'RE STILL STUPID. < 1249316320 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249316331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... The Mac, not influential? < 1249316343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly! < 1249316362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Their argument is that they were dormant in the 90s. < 1249316369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why they weren't influential in the 70s/80s. < 1249316369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you point at Xerox and say they did it all first, the Mac was at least influential for *bringing that in a normal PC*... < 1249316371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so OBVIOUS now! < 1249316372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Face. Palm. < 1249316411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soo close to abandoning reddit. < 1249316501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523, anyway < 1249316512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249316589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol http://www.dibert.com/ < 1249316591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523 < 1249316604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo < 1249316611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that link typoed, or deliberate, btw? < 1249316626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deliberate < 1249316641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, when I first typed it into the browser, that was a typo < 1249316647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But pasting it in here was deliberate < 1249316720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Diberts enjoy Dilbert, apparenty < 1249316722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1249316866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading about how someone tried to plant a fake ATM in the middle of a computer security convention < 1249316901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Defcon. Freaking *Defcon*. < 1249316905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249316921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Special form of stupidity there. < 1249316971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's great < 1249317071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_did_a_Big_Mac_cost_today < 1249317084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what a strangely worded question < 1249317124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, looks like the doors crashed again yesterday < 1249317127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wasn't there to see it < 1249317148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would probably fall for it >.> < 1249317162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, is there an easy way to tell if an ATM is fake? < 1249317183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and did the details of the iPhone issue come out? < 1249317507 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249317579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, if an ATM suddenly appears in a location there wasn't one a while back, and the owners of the place don't remember installing it, it probably isn't real < 1249317593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norly < 1249317596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fake fronts on existing ATMs that are the real problem < 1249317606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is rather different from fake ATMs < 1249317646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just look, though < 1249317759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at what? < 1249317774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the atm. < 1249317786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tell a real ATM front from a fake one by sight? < 1249317853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, the atm covers, yeah? < 1249317964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a fake one on the TV, they're pretty realistic < 1249317982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and almost certainly trademark infringement, at that < 1249318061 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249318073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, trademark infringement, that's so what they worry about < 1249318074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1249318074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is a channel < 1249318083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever conducted an < 1249318083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ehird < 1249318084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklo < 1249318085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poll < 1249318096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every day < 1249318108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1249318109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249318110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this poll < 1249318114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& its contents thereof < 1249318119 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of them are really small, you can't see them < 1249318130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1249318130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1249318139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, maybe you busted it up some time yesterday or today? this is possible? < 1249318159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make good sense < 1249318162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would understand that < 1249318184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i understand? < 1249318209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busted it up? i'm not sure i'm familiar with that outsorted phrase < 1249318231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm tired as hell < 1249318234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's when you blam it but it's sort of like a nuclear bomb < 1249318238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this theme is awesome < 1249318247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's a lot i guess. < 1249318253 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-199-168.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249318254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a- ha < 1249318256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just scored me some free pills < 1249318257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this understand-worthy < 1249318261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the pills pills of delight < 1249318262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just scored me some free pills < 1249318263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fright < 1249318265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delight fright < 1249318272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or freight, freight train, which is it oklopol < 1249318318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wait your turn, IE is crashing again < 1249318374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are these pills made of magic//or are their rhymes tragic < 1249318374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, it's gone i guess, anyway they are these things that make like a sizzling sound and then you drink it. < 1249318377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what the term it < 1249318378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ius < 1249318379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1249318426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: /nick oklopill < 1249318433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably sleep a bit < 1249318441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopil < 1249318455 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't muster another l < 1249318491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to get free pills in the uk, it's called a prescription ← Joke humour < 1249318596 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was pretty funny < 1249318668 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the IE theme is just awesome < 1249318685 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every page has a fully perfect look now < 1249318695 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except some pics look kinda out of place < 1249318711 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can't see some stuff < 1249318731 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't see everything with the windows theme either, for instance vlc's buttons < 1249318757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who likes to see < 1249318760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think seeing is like, good < 1249318764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like. < 1249318778 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree so completely fully. < 1249318805 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing important has been invisible sofar < 1249318867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out that shoes have their own mathematics < 1249318886 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about knot theory < 1249318905 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know the multiplication of primitive knots is commutative? < 1249318912 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, group operation. < 1249318924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electricity? isn't that invisible? < 1249318935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's what I get for answering a comment without reading context < 1249318938 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, i mean more invisible. < 1249318948 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electricity was invisible before < 1249318990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha what < 1249318992 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the obvious > for booleans < 1249318996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the context there :D < 1249319010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249319010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1249319018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also air < 1249319029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but air isn't very important < 1249319048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow wouldn't it be cool if electricity was visible < 1249319091 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is if it arcs < 1249319099 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, things with current would turn to electred < 1249319109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249319111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: it's not the electricity visible there, it's the air plasma that's conducting it < 1249319114 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the color < 1249319115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be like a tesla coil all the time basically < 1249319121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open up your PC and your mobo glows < 1249319122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise with lightning < 1249319124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparks and shit < 1249319130 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well abloobloo, if we're being like that < 1249319135 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then all we can see is electricity < 1249319136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be awesome < 1249319137 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can < 1249319137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1249319139 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there < 1249319142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN FACT\ < 1249319144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$// < 1249319146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would persuade me < 1249319150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get a computer case with a side window < 1249319153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite HATING THAT SHIT < 1249319159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i could see my motherboard glow and shit. < 1249319161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit. < 1249319165 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249319295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: if we want to be PEDANTIC < 1249319302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can just say that everything is quantum fluctuations of energy < 1249319306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1249319306 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we surely do! < 1249319323 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, God is the creator of all things, seen and unseen < 1249319331 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only the seen parts have to do with electricity < 1249319377 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i hear reals were created by man, actually < 1249319378 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also now i think of it, if you put current through something, it'll heat up due to resistance, so become a slightly different colour, if only in the infra-red < 1249319398 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get your dream if you wear infra-red vision things < 1249319475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: when did i say god < 1249319477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said god < 1249319510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: very slightly different, typical computers use milliamps or microamps of current < 1249319516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try to avoid losing it as heat as much as possible < 1249319519 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but it's still there < 1249319549 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiny shift in the emission peak < 1249319669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249319681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the odds of being able to get vision sensitive enough to see it would be rather low < 1249319709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you guys thinkin' what I'm thinking? < 1249319722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<#esoteric> Yeah, but how will we get $1bn in funding? < 1249319751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1249319780 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will save children from accidentally electrocuting themselves < 1249319784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We also need a time machine to modify our genetics. < 1249319790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: O RLY? "Ooh, shiny…" < 1249319795 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249319809 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we make it so that in the device, electricity is presented in an ugly colour < 1249319812 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not attractive at all < 1249319827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it shouldn't be a colour at all < 1249319830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an extra sense < 1249319830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: yeah but kids love shit like that < 1249319838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people can see more colours than colourblind people can < 1249319841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they love getting mucky < 1249319843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $// < 1249319848 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay we'll need more funding to work out what colours kids don't like to touch < 1249319852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none! < 1249319859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249319860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the point, the point is that it won't be a colour at all < 1249319861 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't be sure < 1249319866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i had an urge to touch any lamps < 1249319866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be, just a direct brain input < 1249319875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like unless you're synaesthetic, smells don't have a colour < 1249319875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something that looks like an expose dlamp < 1249319878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exposed lamp < 1249319892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I was synaesthetic < 1249319897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1249319902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be neat < 1249319911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think of any disadvantages either < 1249320200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This kind of synesthesia is usually easily achieved by means of psychedelic drugs, such as LSD, psilocybin or Cannabinoids.]] < 1249320200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Wikipedia < 1249320298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't even think about it < 1249320309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking. < 1249320312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if synaesthesia has no disadvantages, the method of obtaining it probably does < 1249320317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it amusing when people put things like that in Wikipedia. < 1249320334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain adds "Wink, wink, nudge, nudge." at the end. < 1249320600 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249320611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249320617 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat tyler < 1249321047 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-066-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249321127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249321192 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249321201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat diddi miss < 1249321279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zip, zilch, nada. < 1249321656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:38] <-- ehird has left this server. < 1249321658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:39] --> ehird has joined this channel (n=ehird@91.105.72.107). < 1249321665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't miss those < 1249321686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But did you, in fact, go <-- that way, or --> this. < 1249321700 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249321791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249322199 0 :nooga!n=nooga@user-89-108-226-84.mobile.playmobile.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1249322222 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny < 1249322234 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to remove all kinds of comments and macros from C/C++ code using regexp < 1249322251 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think it could be done more efficiently without using regexp < 1249322378 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1249322414 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-170-21.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249322436 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the task seems easy < 1249322459 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not as easy as you'd expect < 1249322521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: pope < 1249322654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is people doing things like " /* this is not a comment because it's in a string literal */ " < 1249322674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never put /* or */ inside a string, like, ever < 1249322678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a literal < 1249322681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have, in C-INTERCAL < 1249322685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it generates C code as output < 1249322695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that involves putting all sorts of C-like snippets in string literals, including comments < 1249322699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i suppose < 1249322701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have i guess. < 1249322712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "all kinds of" < 1249322714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess things like < 1249322718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/*@javadocstyle*/ < 1249322721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, so, you basically need to parse C. :P < 1249322722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are unlikely to appear in generated code < 1249322727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.C! < 1249322741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :) < 1249322743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I thought javadoc comments /only/ appeared in generated code < 1249322746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Parsec < 1249322746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the code generators add them < 1249322752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Err, what? < 1249322758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1249322759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language.C doesn't use Parsec, I think. < 1249322761 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: correct < 1249322761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, no < 1249322763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249322767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Parsec. Thinko. < 1249322767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the template is added by IDEs < 1249322770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249322770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no < 1249322774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :javadocs are used in human-written code < 1249322776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not generated code < 1249322777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 parsers. < 1249322780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only by AnMaster < 1249322798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: He may be making a snide claim that Java programmers are just code generators. < 1249322801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think you should stop disputing it because every java project uses javadocs < 1249322803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people are too lazy to do that sort of thing < 1249322810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think he's just never read any java code < 1249322813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok, I'm sorry, I'm just used to /really bad/ Java < 1249322817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than good Java < 1249322828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: All Apache Java projects and all Eclipse Java projects are totally full of javadocs. < 1249322837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as a whole bunch of independent libraries; pretty much all of them. < 1249322840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the standard libraries. < 1249322852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javadoc is used extensively in Java. < 1249322854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm used to people requiring that the recipient of their Java code install a certain IDE in order to run it < 1249322855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javadoc is kinda sucky, but it's very common. < 1249322864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about as commonly used as *objects* in Java. :P < 1249322865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the sort of really bad Java I mean < 1249322872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's usually sound advice in general, but globally < 1249322878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, using Java without an IDE is suicide < 1249322878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed < 1249322884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in order to compile, maybe < 1249322886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to /run/? < 1249322889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay < 1249322894 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never tried to program java with an ide < 1249322897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mainly meant in order to code or read < 1249322897 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooh < 1249322903 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1249322906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, to just build Java without an IDE should be easy. < 1249322906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: yes but trazer doesn't really count. < 1249322910 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't need to parse C < 1249322911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got really annoyed at them and went and made a simple GUI wrapper around their program, then put it all in a runnable .jar < 1249322917 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works especially great without one, because you don't have to import explicitly < 1249322917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't almost all Java IDEs use Ant? < 1249322918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and said "this is how you should be distributing your program" < 1249322920 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i haven't made trazer < 1249322926 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have made about a hundred java progs < 1249322926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: you patched! < 1249322932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes exactly progs < 1249322933 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've added a few modules < 1249322935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := one file dealies < 1249322944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not on OS X! < 1249322947 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no with java i usually use multiple files < 1249322960 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's nice to do with java < 1249322962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that I don't use an IDE at all... But Emacs almost certainly counts as an IDE. < 1249322966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: Oh shut up :P < 1249322971 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249322975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you just have an inferior OS on top of your OS because your OS sucks < 1249323001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Multiple. < 1249323011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o < 1249323014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the Haskell runtime system could pretty much count as an OS kernel. :P) < 1249323018 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249323047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION exaggerates to make ehird's eyes pop out < 1249323062 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beeh < 1249323073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Consider them pooped. < 1249323075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…poppde. < 1249323078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…popped. < 1249323082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's a funny User-Agent string: "Mozilla/4.1 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Symbian OS; N-Gage;452) Opera 6.20 [en]". It's a Mozilla derivative... except it's MSIE instead... except it's Opera instead. < 1249323106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every browser in existence is a mozilla derivative < 1249323114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, how would websites know it supported frames? < 1249323115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish that we could revise user agents to make sense. < 1249323128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wish we could eliminate user agents < 1249323131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249323134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modularise them, rather < 1249323139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish we could eliminate users with agents. < 1249323151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the general idea, because e.g. software sites can point you to the version for your OS and the like < 1249323151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe with a comma there. < 1249323167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They get abused so much. < 1249323187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by whom < 1249323191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1249323196 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my abs almost never get used < 1249323219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who think "this site only works on IE 6.0" is a good idea. < 1249323247 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that happen? < 1249323252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: maybe you should hang around negative people more often < 1249323255 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was just "this site works on anything but ie" < 1249323266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol no < 1249323268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera (9.24 winxp, 9.25 winxp, 6.05 win98) doesn't seem to advertise itself as a Mozilla derivative, let alone IE 5. I think that Symbian-Opera-6 is a bit "special". < 1249323285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opera is so bloated it has a whole list of browsers you can tell it to impersonate < 1249323307 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: some streaming services do that, and i've seen at least a few other pages that do it < 1249323309 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's that, but I don't think it advertises itself as Opera at all when impersonating really. Not that I've tested. < 1249323316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are plenty ie only sites < 1249323320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just all suck < 1249323351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also plenty IE-only-sites which use that ActiveX stuff somehow. < 1249323367 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i'm talking about useful pages < 1249323368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess the suck category already covered that. < 1249323403 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what activex is < 1249323419 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sounds like something nice and useful that everybody hate < 1249323423 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hates < 1249323425 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda like flash < 1249323454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: active-x lets you run arbitrary native code in the browser. < 1249323463 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary? :D < 1249323464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like Java applets, except only for Windows and IE and without the attempt at security. < 1249323464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buggily and slowly, usually. < 1249323468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: pretty much yes < 1249323470 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's just plain awesome :DD < 1249323474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to OK it of course < 1249323496 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, naturally people would read the executable disassembly before running < 1249323522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1249323607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one Finnish bank (Sampo) made their net-bank's "security solution" to require Java with some native JNI blobs recently, when their computer systems were "streamlined" to conform with Danske Bank, who bought Sampo. < 1249323657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to click his mouse with only pressure on the top bit < 1249323675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this is impossible) < 1249323686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That stuff was the crazitude; they gave a 100-eur discount for people who had to buy a new computer to access their web-bank. < 1249323716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java applets using JNI... < 1249323724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. < 1249323754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kks.cabal.fi/SampoApplet has a bit of decompilation; it does quite a lot of user-hardware-sniffing, probably to provide some sort of per-machine ID. < 1249323787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail. < 1249323799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And http://hsivonen.iki.fi/sampo-epic-multifail/ has the full story. < 1249323819 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one ultra megafail < 1249323838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was certainly kind of them to provide a spectacle. < 1249323908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what a spectacle. < 1249323942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially that point where their pages just displayed the short text "404 multifail", you can't get much better even with planning, let alone by accident. < 1249323955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't all South Korean banks required to use ActiveX for security? < 1249323974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised any exist at all, given the contradiction there < 1249323995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was at least one Chinese bank requiring ActiveX. < 1249324001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "is", I guess. < 1249324353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:21] fizzie: That stuff was the crazitude; they gave a 100-eur discount for people who had to buy a new computer to access their web-bank. < 1249324355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xDxDxD < 1249324357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*[:1 < 1249324360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249324362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*[1: < 1249324395 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249324398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it was only when you bought from their partner-computer-salesplace or some-such. < 1249324402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is security so damned hard? < 1249324407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently yes) < 1249324412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :security is very easy to get wrong < 1249324419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently so, that it's unknown how easy it is to get right < 1249324460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Se ei ole aukko, kunnes me pystymme itse varmistamaan että se on aukko.” (“It is not a hole until we are able to verify ourselves that it is a hole.”) — Hannu Vuola, head of communications at Sampo Pankki in a later revised news item in Helsingin Sanomat on the topic of a gaping XSS hole in Sampo’s net bank < 1249324460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1249324460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kottke.org/04/07/my-new-policy < 1249324464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a policy that it is not a hole. < 1249324697 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249325018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there needs to be an api on the internet that lets you get every page. < 1249325044 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets you get every page? < 1249325080 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't seem to understand sentences today. < 1249325098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, like... HTTP? < 1249325128 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe more like gopher < 1249325169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything wrong with using openid-provider.appspot.com for my OpenID needs? < 1249325188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, it only supports openid 1 < 1249325193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is unmaintained < 1249325199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1? < 1249325201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1249325204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to 2. < 1249325214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either go with myopenid.com, which is owned by a big openid player < 1249325217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or host your own with phpmyid < 1249325261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION used to use um, < 1249325272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that died < 1249325290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Don't do that. < 1249325310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Google provides OpenIDs officially now, although crippeldly. < 1249325318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not http, EVERY page < 1249325323 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myopenid.com makes SSL client certificates for you :) < 1249325380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: remember to use a domain you control < 1249325389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1249325390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just set the openid in a yadis file w/ http header, or in the html < 1249325394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you use another provider < 1249325395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way < 1249325398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your provider dies < 1249325400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just switch over < 1249325403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use the same id < 1249325421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, good point < 1249325455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so easy for, say, Joe the Plumber, though < 1249325463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you joe the plumber? < 1249325471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: NOBODY'S JOE THE PLUMBER < 1249325471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol ni < 1249325499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are people who only have like 3 accounts; they don't need openid. there are people who have a bunch of accounts but can't set up their own domain; they will use one of the providers directly. < 1249325503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's everyone else. < 1249325517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment, the second group barely uses openid < 1249325525 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably wordpress plugins and whatever for it to make it easier, anyway < 1249325558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right someone who has a wordpress blog they can put plugins on falls in the third category < 1249325706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1249325711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's bicycles and unicycles and tricycles < 1249325735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't there a nilcycle < 1249325740 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called a stick < 1249325742 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1249325747 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too fast < 1249325765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just assumed that you were going to say quadricycle for some reason < 1249325772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too fast how oklopil xD < 1249325779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway no < 1249325780 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it only made sense as a correct guess of what you'd say. < 1249325782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a stick can't get you places < 1249325801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the others can < 1249325801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tie a carrot to the stick and it can get you to places. < 1249325811 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a pogo stick < 1249325812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean like < 1249325814 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it's called < 1249325816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to have pedals < 1249325818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them have pedals < 1249325818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two pedals < 1249325822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm thinking that these pedals, like < 1249325825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift it off the air a bit < 1249325826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the energy < 1249325827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then back down < 1249325833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's basically a pogo stick except you pedal < 1249325837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can turn < 1249325859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the challenge is not lunging forwards and hitting your head on the ground < 1249325865 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can turn with a pogo stick < 1249325895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but < 1249325897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with handlebars < 1249325933 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you turn with it the same way you do with a unicycle, so i'd count it < 1249325943 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah pedals should probably exist. < 1249325960 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also unicycles don't usually have hb's < 1249325974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1249325982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a unicycle that's really a bicycle with just one wheel < 1249325993 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249326045 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo just assumed that you were going to say quadricycle for some reason <<< you just don't know ehird < 1249326052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1249326063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway for a nilcycle you just take a bike-unicycle and remove the wheel, then hook the pedals up to like... a fan that spins really fast to lift you up a little bit < 1249326076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the handlebars move around the thing holding the fan < 1249326076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't paying full attention to the chat < 1249326079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mafia's addicting < 1249326117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Mafia's addictin < 1249326118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1249326119 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60| Mafia's addictin < 1249326120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert last < 1249326121 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1249326123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1249326124 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1249326124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1249326125 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1249326138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 168 < 1249326139 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1249326140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Mafia's addicting < 1249326142 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60| Mafia's addicting < 1249326145 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...arbitrary code? < 1249326181 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1249326208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the point. < 1249326215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what < 1249326221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of HackEgo. < 1249326227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249326235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LOL RM -RF / GREGOR MUST BE STOOPID < 1249326264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 1 < 1249326265 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1249326276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1249326277 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ paste \ quotes \ tmpdir.25063 < 1249326288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh. < 1249326292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 169 < 1249326293 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1249326296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1249326298 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.25131 < 1249326303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whoami < 1249326305 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1249326307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`who < 1249326308 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1249326312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249326318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /etc/passwd\ < 1249326319 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1249326321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /etc/passwd < 1249326322 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1249326329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wtg Sgeo < 1249326333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1249326334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what constitutes output? < 1249326334 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addquote \ calc \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ imdb \ minifind \ paste \ quote \ runfor \ strfile \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram < 1249326336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls / < 1249326337 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr < 1249326339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /etc < 1249326340 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatives < 1249326342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creatyres? < 1249326343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1249326343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: stdout < 1249326346 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creatures? < 1249326355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls ~/bin/creatures < 1249326357 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1249326357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/creatures < 1249326358 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/creatures < 1249326369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`creatures User:Sgeo < 1249326371 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ I'm the one who created this project. Known as Sgeo almost everywhere I'm known, one place as Oegs, and one place as Sgeo2. < 1249326384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1249326392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if there's too much output? < 1249326397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`creatures Norn < 1249326399 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ Norns (Cyberlifogenis cutis) are a [9]species of [10]creature, created by the [11]Shee to entertain them and serve [12]tea and [13]biscuits. They were [14]genetically engineered on the disc-shaped planet [15]Albia. Many were abandoned there as the [16]Shee took off in their spaceship, the [17]Ark (although they took a few of < 1249326405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run yes < 1249326407 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y < 1249326419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run creatures Norn | paste < 1249326420 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13876 < 1249326448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one place I'm known as Oegs is now dead < 1249326466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls / < 1249326468 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr < 1249326470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /proc < 1249326472 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ 10253 \ 10254 \ 10256 \ 10258 \ 10259 \ 10265 \ 10319 \ 10322 \ 10326 \ 10327 \ 10329 \ 104 \ 105 \ 10562 \ 10563 \ 11057 \ 11069 \ 11074 \ 11457 \ 1149 \ 11501 \ 11753 \ 11772 \ 11776 \ 12046 \ 1291 \ 13928 \ 13946 \ 13948 \ 1418 \ 1421 \ 14617 \ 14636 \ 14640 \ 1486 \ 15310 \ 15316 \ 15317 \ 15318 \ 15324 \ 15325 \ 15543 < 1249326478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /proc | paste < 1249326479 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25089 < 1249326493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run url <(ls /proc) < 1249326494 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//dev/fd/63 < 1249326496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1249326619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually clicked on that last link, just because I was curious as to what codu's reaction would be < 1249326627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1249326629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: dev/fd/63@b7f832f99b43: not found in manifest < 1249326637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's just looking it up in the hg repository < 1249327413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1249327417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hatches an evil plan < 1249327421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An evil FUN plan! < 1249327475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commit the hg repo into itself? < 1249327505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1249327520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found a little software ditty that makes a virtual screen on your network and lets you connect via vnc < 1249327530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := iphone + old mac can be extra screenies < 1249327655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly not ones of any great size, but. < 1249327813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249327938 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249327974 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird MONAD NOMAD < 1249327987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh, it's a nomad. < 1249327991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where'd the topic go? < 1249328002 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like big eths and I cannot lie, you other esolangers can't deny | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249328139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not showing up here. < 1249328145 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249328152 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i got an apartment! :D < 1249328204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1249328214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm screenrecycler doesn't appear to let you change the res < 1249328224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249328228 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249328231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic now < 1249328321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the vnc works... slowly < 1249328397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1249328401 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive decided im going to get into < 1249328405 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woodworking. < 1249328406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::X < 1249328418 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you built your own apartment < 1249328423 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambitious! < 1249328424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i thought you already worked wood < 1249328425 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, studio craft < 1249328426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BADUM TISH < 1249328428 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1249328435 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh ill work your wood alright) < 1249328439 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and puzzlebox making < 1249328445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the joke < 1249328449 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1249328450 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. < 1249328461 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was the reply. < 1249328476 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which implied a sexual overture < 1249328517 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1249328518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzleboxes < 1249328528 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in hellraiser :X < 1249328532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or atleast similar < 1249328683 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249328744 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: was about to ask if your head was riddled with pins < 1249328754 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not sir < 1249328766 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, pinhead doesnt make the lament configurations < 1249328769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh fuck iphone, I'ma using mah old crt < 1249328769 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the engineer makes them. < 1249328770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1249328776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is actually slower < 1249328777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249328787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its advantage is being plugged in to ethernet and having perhiphrials of course < 1249328801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*peripherals < 1249328847 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249329080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Speaking of phones, I'm trying out ssh+irssi with this N-Gage. The horror! < 1249329089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow < 1249329142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes about 30 of complete ui-hangup to process the ssh key. < 1249329188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word? < 1249329211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249329225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word? < 1249329227 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :61| Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word? < 1249329356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :34x26 characters with a 4x6 font. < 1249329357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : only by AnMaster <-- even when reading the context I'm not sure if you mean A) Adding javadoc to generated code. B) NOT doing A. C) Adding javadoc to hand written code. < 1249329380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He means flying. < 1249329381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant C, but I doubt it matters < 1249329383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In to the sky. < 1249329388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah :) < 1249329395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I ran into both sorts of code < 1249329425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than me certainly add doxygen/javadoc/edoc/ < 1249329433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others* < 1249329435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1249329500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how you corrected it and it's still wrong < 1249329514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Takes about 30 [seconds] of complete ui-hangup to process the ssh key. <-- sounds to me like either slow or severely overloaded host for the ssh server? < 1249329527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or… it's a fuckin' mobile phone! < 1249329534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sshing *to* a phone? < 1249329535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From ~'04. < 1249329540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1249329569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know a vnc client for mac os 9? < 1249329596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, iirc the client part doesn't need to do as much processing as the server side. < 1249329599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot where I read that < 1249329630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know enough about the protocol details to be able to confirm/deny it. < 1249329655 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249330220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody? < 1249330633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just wondering what the hell you plan to do. VNC *server* I could have understood. < 1249330639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and: no idea of such a software < 1249330653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed a program that creates a virtual screen and exposes it via VNC. < 1249330666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := Who doesn't want an extra 800x600 of realestate running on a slow OS on a loud computer? < 1249330668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you want to use a CRT for it? < 1249330681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I have, man. < 1249330689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I tried my iPhone. < 1249330695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouse/keyboard didn't work and it was slow. < 1249330706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you try googling? < 1249330712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make your mouse into an 800x600 screen? < 1249330725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: optical mice can control the brightness of the laser they use to illuminate the table below them < 1249330726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: …what? < 1249330730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did I say mouse? < 1249330731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can also tell where they are, due to being mice < 1249330731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes. < 1249330733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots. < 1249330737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mouse/keyboard didn't work and it was slow. < 1249330748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, in theory, you could get an optical mouse and move it around in midair really quickly < 1249330750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18] ehird: Well, I tried my iPhone. < 1249330751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:18] ehird: Mouse/keyboard didn't work and it was slow. < 1249330753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^2/[2/ < 1249330763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it could project a screen onto the surface below it < 1249330766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ais523 is trying to joke < 1249330771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1249330772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasons this doesn't work: no mouse is that fast and accurate < 1249330775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that could work for vector graphics < 1249330781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, optical mice are sort of obsolete < 1249330790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, they're still common regardless < 1249330797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1249330800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's replacing them? < 1249330805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laser mice < 1249330810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're similar but work on every surface < 1249330813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't see their beam < 1249330817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, most new mice that aren't especially marketed to gamers seems to be optical ones still < 1249330818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1249330826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do the same thing just with visible light, and use the same trick < 1249330835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get an invisible screen! < 1249330842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1249330850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it on a flourescent surface that makes the beam visible < 1249330853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo < 1249330855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more zen this way < 1249330867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, put it in public and "show" pornography on it < 1249330875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get to edgily challenge the law and be an artist in one go! < 1249330879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except nobody would notice. < 1249330885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway... how would the mouse be moved? By the user still? < 1249330901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so he/she would basically draw his/her own screen and decide what is on it < 1249330906 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-68.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249330907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by a machine if you want to have any hope at it < 1249330911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... clearly mice need motors to move around < 1249330912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I guess you track the position of the mouse < 1249330915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you'd have to oscillate between two positions < 1249330915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... < 1249330918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incredibly quickly < 1249330920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, programs can move the mouse pointer < 1249330928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :light only active when it is supposed to draw something < 1249330931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that doesn't move the mouse too, clearly you have a leaky correspondence < 1249330937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the user moves it back and forth to let it fill in < 1249330947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't think you understand < 1249330951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as you move away the light is gone < 1249330965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really < 1249330968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mousepad is smaller than your screen < 1249330973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you backtrack to start moving again often < 1249330977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the effect will be rather like, one of those special papers where you use a pencil on the side to draw and they used some special surface to make it stick better to some areas < 1249330977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not a 1:1 mapping already < 1249330980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249330981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, mouse acceleration < 1249330988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a flourescent surface of course < 1249330990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: some people literally can't access the parts of their screen that don't correspond to locations for the mouse < 1249330997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you need a ball then to track without making it flourescent < 1249330999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they don't realise they can pick the mouse up and move it elsewhere < 1249331000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two balls in fact < 1249331004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not literally can't < 1249331007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're physically capable < 1249331008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as in, don't know how < 1249331011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to track orientation too < 1249331017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, understand now? < 1249331018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I was calling out your misuse of "literally" < 1249331022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally means literally < 1249331027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my 'mousepad' is bigger than my screen < 1249331031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can aim for the corners and sides easily < 1249331035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you're asking about two balls ask augur < 1249331038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249331043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, two *balls in mice* < 1249331044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If they're mentally incapable they literally can't do it. < 1249331044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, play Enigma < 1249331046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyuk hyuk hyuk < 1249331057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: they're able, they just haven't thought of it < 1249331087 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I.e. they're not able < 1249331100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your definition of able is fucked up < 1249331102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to track mouse orientation and position so it can use the laser on the flourescent surface only, needs balls to track position with laser turned off < 1249331106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't jumped out of a window today < 1249331113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however i am perfectly able of doing so < 1249331128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm using a private SSH key; it's the decrypting of that which takes the 30 seconds, I think, since it hangs up immediately after giving it a passphrase, and then unhangs at the moment it starts sending packets out (sez tcpdump) to the SSH server. < 1249331138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people in question are unable without outside assistance < 1249331146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, decrypting the private key? :D < 1249331181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also hang up? as in closing the TCP connection? < 1249331184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: your definition of able sucks < 1249331193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that supposed to work... < 1249331193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not unable; they could do it by mistake < 1249331197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just haven't thought of it < 1249331199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that, or doing whatever the SSH protocol needs to have be done with the key, I don't really know the details. TCP doesn't mind a pause of half a minute, the UI just is unresponsive that long. < 1249331218 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I suppose you're also capable of proving Fermat's last theorem, since you could if somebody told you how? < 1249331225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with "hang up" you don't mean a TCP RST package? < 1249331241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't respond to analogies that don't actually analogise properly < 1249331242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. Maybe I should've used "locks up" there. Hanging up would make it rather unusable. < 1249331294 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249331297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Seems like the same thing to me, but whatever. < 1249331325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you may be right, it just sits badly with me < 1249331342 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see that :-P < 1249331373 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@81.49.247.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249331470 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249331513 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249331549 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1249331567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249331573 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1249331608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are the dangeroos? < 1249331611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1249331625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: No. Maybe I should've used "locks up" there. Hanging up would make it rather unusable. < 1249331627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, good analogy in fact... < 1249331629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, ah < 1249331631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if anything was missed there < 1249331637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in either direction) < 1249331641 0 :mycrofti1!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249331643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1249331701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of your lines I never saw. < 1249331993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. < 1249331994 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! < 1249332120 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249332185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249332295 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249332393 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249332648 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p57B187B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249333788 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249333951 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249334023 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249334119 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249334638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249334648 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249334662 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249334999 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249336347 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249336562 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249336768 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1249336784 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-207.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249337957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249338008 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249338368 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249339090 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249339743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this desk is so stupid with its sharp end of the keyboard stand thing < 1249339746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't it curved < 1249339748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my poor arms < 1249340258 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1249340705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portability makes programming unfun, I've decided < 1249340747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception: Haskell. < 1249340762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm referring to lower-level sort of programming ofc < 1249340767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and other high-level languages, but those are less awesome. :P) < 1249340783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without portability you can embed machine code, use hardcoded addresses, poke registers, use hardware without abstraction layers and generally poke all around < 1249340789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. C++ and down, portability? < 1249340793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :layers of abstraction are inherently more limited and thus less fun < 1249340801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a royal bitch. < 1249340803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact the best situation is when there's only one model < 1249340806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same speeds of everything < 1249340812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can use precise timing, talk about how fast things are in literal terms < 1249340813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1249340840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, portability in those languages is not merely unfun, it is the antifun. < 1249340847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…which brings me to my point: i want an OLPC so I can hack with Forth on openfirmware :) < 1249340853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that chiclet keyboard looks unfun. < 1249340861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I've read negative things about the olpc people < 1249340863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esp. wrt windows < 1249340872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't I buy an olpc from the company before they did that? < 1249340872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having to just deal with different UNIXes is a PITA. < 1249340883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay you can't really buy it but. < 1249340890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I offer Autotools as proof of that) < 1249340964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lead to my revelation: being on an island and having a vis— wait, that was John. What I meant to say was http://lukego.livejournal.com/8427.html. < 1249341048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, you can buy an olpc but for >$300 since you have to buy an extra one for some stupid kid in africa :-P < 1249341082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they're not even doing that program any more < 1249341083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uber lame < 1249341155 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249341382 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249341551 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249341806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1249341845 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249342971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth is a wonderful language < 1249343078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that's the solution to my JIT-in-assembler woes! < 1249343082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write the core OS in Forth! < 1249343098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1249343256 0 :mycrofti1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :mycroftiv < 1249343273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi mycroftiv. < 1249343474 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hey there < 1249343577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth is awesome, don't you agree? < 1249343642 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent used it personally so i dont actually have an opinion on forth, really < 1249343688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extremely minimal implementation, unifying paradigm/execution mechanism and extreme flexibility; with the flexibility not only being idiomatic but pretty much The Way To Do It. < 1249343695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a good mix to me. < 1249343738 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like a lot of the concepts, the reflexivity and integrating compilation with the main environment < 1249343775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like that it brings such expressiveness to real-time hackery of low-level hardware. < 1249343856 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my grandfather started me out on RPN with this ancient hewlett-packard calculator that cost probably 500 million dollars in the late 60s currency he bought it with, but i still havent quite learned to parse that kind of stack based stuff as well as i should by eye < 1249343953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: the nice thing about forth is that it doesn't generally read like rpn < 1249343968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of parsing words that can read ahead and the general natural language formation < 1249344041 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is some of your thinking on symbols and syntax? < 1249344103 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it incredibly frustrating that compared to mathematics, the use of symbols in computer languages is entirely inconsistent and contradictory < 1249344130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax is a bloody pain in the arse. < 1249344154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think to improve on it we need to take cues from user interface design, because that's what it is. < 1249344159 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well put < 1249344195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike s-expressions because they put a less common usecase, metaprogramming, over the more common one: regular programming. < 1249344214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pro-metaprogramming, but the whole language doesn't have to be made worse just for it. < 1249344235 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill accept that, thats for sure - you always want the stuff you do the most often to have the most direct expression < 1249344277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1249344440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, sometimes tailoring syntax for metaprogramming can lead to great things < 1249344455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a forth example: (I'll pastebin a console log due to laziness) < 1249344458 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely, its very interesting the power of just a graceful noptation < 1249344489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/570426.txt?key=2vfkfnbijhced9ucvqbjw < 1249344500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a less minimal syntax, I couldn't have done that < 1249344510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't have my definitions be the form they create < 1249344534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: \n cr ; was a bit gratuitous now that i think about it < 1249344568 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice compressed expression of meaning, absolutely < 1249344616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't seen forth scale up to a smalltalk-esque system < 1249344633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rich structures in forth, for instance, are not really practical < 1249344638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rich = smalltalk object level) < 1249344656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think it's good for hacking up stuff, exploring and the lower-level systems < 1249344665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps isolated components < 1249344666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is still an awful lot < 1249344721 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been playing with an idea for a language that im not entirely sure really makes sense or not, but i guess this is the place to throw it out there < 1249344744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please do < 1249344749 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an incredibly minimalistic language based on the observation that such a huge amount of lines of code are just assignment statements < 1249344779 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the observation in plan9 that everything somehow works in a somewhat similar way, with bind NEW OLD constantly - just making NEW a new name for OLD, which is basically like an assignment < 1249344834 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea is that you are given to stat - a basic environment that just has names that correspond to various basic functions (obviously a name for screen display, a name for keyboard input, that kind of thing) < 1249344860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: note that in haskell assignment is much less common < 1249344863 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the only thing you ever do - the only statement that exists - is just assignment / binding - you get tokens also of course to work with, numbers and letters etc < 1249344866 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1249344870 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand the functional languages are totally different < 1249344874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as generally you just make transformations, sometimes splitting a value into two to retain one or to perform two operations < 1249344875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah < 1249344879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just throwing it out there < 1249344891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced that assignment as an operation is very useful < 1249344896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to a syntactic denotation of a name < 1249344899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but go on < 1249344924 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thats really exactly what im trying to get at < 1249344940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you use assignment to do things? < 1249344946 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea that maybe you can make an enviroment where 'all you do' is just define the names < 1249344975 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you obviously have to have some names/objects that correspond in a simple way to things like input and output < 1249345008 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a very lame conceptual example, the idea that you can do 'bind keyboard screen' - and then what you type shows up on the screen - captures a little bit of it < 1249345031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as graphical noise, I assume < 1249345046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: anyway, that's a distinct operation from assignment < 1249345055 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way yes, in a way no < 1249345062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's plugging one thing into another < 1249345065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., a pipe < 1249345069 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i can conceptualize assignment as making a variable a 'label' for a number < 1249345087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: piping the value to a program which holds on to it < 1249345092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then outputs it forever < 1249345120 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, there are lots of mappings of what is going on < 1249345205 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the core of the idea is just an environment where all you do is create the names you want to use, decide what labels will refer to what tokens/values, and 'thats it' < 1249345256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1249345262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's assignment. < 1249345276 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats true, but since the language doesnt have assingment as a separate concept... < 1249345289 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like the idea of 'naming' can kind of encompass it - in fact, 'late binding' is really related < 1249345306 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :late binding plays with the distinction between 'just a name' and an actual 'changing a thing' right? < 1249345312 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for my sloppy terminology < 1249345325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1249345331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Late binding just changes how names are resolved, not assigned < 1249345333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1249345345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: I think assignment is a *subset* of your operation. < 1249345354 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah absolutely, thats the idea < 1249345638 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its obviously a conceptual/experimental language, the question being 'what is the minimal set of initial objects/tokens that you need for such an environment to be theoretically usable and turing complete?' < 1249345642 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249345745 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249345755 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to easily establish that its certainly possible, you could obviously supply an environment where the premade objects that you get to rename/bind are an infinitely long tape, a collection of 'stateholders' and then the obvious mark-making rules - of course at that point youve just overlaid a silly semantics across a generic utm, but its just a limit case < 1249345817 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249345843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi GregorR-L. < 1249345849 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1249345884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: i am not sure it is very wise to worship ehird < 1249345884 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives Goodwill an A PLUS < 1249345898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249345905 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh My Godoerjan < 1249345912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he greeted you with OMG < 1249345922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh My GregorR-L < 1249345940 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can I warship you? :P < 1249345953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird and GregorR-L and oerjan, oh my < 1249345965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION warship's your mom < 1249345968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1249345971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the apostrophe < 1249345978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit that's the first apostrophe mistake i've made in, like, years < 1249345983 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION , oerjan and Deewiant should from a clique and call it GOD < 1249345990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beware, though, of the wereship < 1249346006 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye < 1249346026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should form a clique and call it E < 1249346101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Man would i hate to be oedipus, just imagine your liver being eaten by a whale every morning because you fell into the water" < 1249346101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Reddit < 1249346164 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.................. < 1249346167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, there is no E13 or E14 simple lie group < 1249346203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I know right :D < 1249346233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL mythological biology, or... < 1249346250 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i smell skilled trolling < 1249346260 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249346274 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: From now on "fell into the water" will be coy talk for "fucked yer mum" < 1249346279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that was prometheus < 1249346299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/973fj/the_gamers_dream_girlfriend_pic/c0bnqyz < 1249346305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's like 70 things in once < 1249346307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an eagle. < 1249346318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: What does liver being eaten mean? < 1249346322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the whale effect it? < 1249346326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about morning? < 1249346390 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His liver metaphorically represents his honor for his father. < 1249346399 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is destroyed (eaten) early in his life (in the morning) < 1249346419 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whale represents the fact that whales are cool. < 1249346422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats GregorR-L -----### < 1249346428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: But every morning? < 1249346432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the in the morning reference) < 1249346433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, like, reincarnation? < 1249346853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: WELL? < 1249346882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a deep well, with a whale in it < 1249347109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now convinced that a system with Forth at the low-level and Lisp or Smalltalk at the high-level is the way to go. < 1249347162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the highlevel language should be called Multiply, for obvious reasons < 1249347703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, clearly it should be Fift or Fith < 1249347727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Fiff't" and… "Fith", respectively.) < 1249347779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird doesn't like my pun :( < 1249347786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it. < 1249348253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some colours don't distinguish blue and green, right? < 1249348298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can we have the red/grue colour system? :-) < 1249348311 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grue/bleen is superior - you know that paradox? < 1249348332 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an attack on the validity of inductive reasoning < 1249348383 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define the property 'grue' to mean 'green before the year 2050, blue afterwards' and 'bleen' to mean 'blue before 2050, green afterwards' - the problem is: < 1249348400 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can we say 'the sky is blue' is a better statement than 'the sky is bleen' ? < 1249348414 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since all the observational evidence that confirms the first also confirms the second < 1249348432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_term < 1249348484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: I was just using the term referenced in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinguishing_blue_from_green_in_language < 1249348499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Some colours don't distinguish blue and green, right?]] < 1249348504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/colours/cultures/ ofc < 1249348512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thus, the three most basic colors are black, white, and red (in his 1924 book Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler described this as his justification for his choice of the colors for the Nazi flag, as he felt these three colors would most appeal to the masses)." < 1249348535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249348538 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt research show that there is actually a set progression for the introduction of color words into languages? < 1249348545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: sort of. < 1249348557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: that's what the link refers to < 1249348581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*my < 1249348613 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pride myself on trying to talk out my ass based on pre existing knowledge without letting the wikipedia borg always outthink me - its a losing battle < 1249348635 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, when i was a kid and we were talking about what sci-fi was real and what wasnt < 1249348663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitler had particular foresight there, since the actual scientific study wasn't until 1969 < 1249348670 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought, based on what i knew about computers at the time - early 80s - that the single most bs thing in scifi was the computer on the Enterprise in star trek that could answer any question you asked perfectly < 1249348688 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little did i know id be feeling obsoleted by such a device just a couple decades later < 1249348691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's mathematically impossible :-P < 1249348701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway wikipedia isn't the be-all end-all /shrug < 1249348722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ISN'T? < 1249348731 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah no doubt, sucks in a ton of ways - i used to spend hours and hours trying to work as an editor on the classical music articles < 1249348749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately wikipedia only works because of its truly sad editor base < 1249348757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I depress myself just looking at the non-article pages < 1249348766 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also was part of a horrible, horrible long running fight to save the 'einstein' wikipedia page from long term attack by these people who felt like einstein stole it all from henri poincare - which is actually a complex issue < 1249348776 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and made for a truly amazing struggle that was like 2 years long < 1249348823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia's, in general, a bunch of idiotic naive people who are all despicably sociopathic: ridiculous abundances of community "friendship" with unbelievable cliques, cabals and the like; incredibly focused on bureaucracy; and truly spiteful and hateful to anyone they oppose < 1249348824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it saddens me < 1249348856 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i certainly couldnt deal with the social aspect of the editing universe, i just tried to work purely on content < 1249348856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and they're all utterly obsessed with wikipedia < 1249348866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen a significant editor who has a life and doesn't dedicate so much time to it < 1249348877 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still clean up pages as seems needed, but i often do it anon rather than logging into my editor account < 1249348879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an utter shame that without these awful people, wikipedia wouldn't really work < 1249349046 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i think wikipedia is amazingly successful in that regard - when you think about the human energy that pre-wikipedia would have gone into purely personal obsessiveness, that now can be devoted to making sure that all fancruft in a given area is rigidly thought-policed for series continuity failures, its amazing < 1249349087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1249349092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a bit depressing though < 1249349163 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249349325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doo doo doo, Forth is fun, doo doo doo, Smalltalk is fun. It's nice to see a plan come together. …although nicer to see it implemented, which would be very unlike me. < 1249349643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you would be able to cackle maniackally! < 1249349727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, maniack would be a nice term for a mad scientist, analogous to magick < 1249349959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maniack's Almanack of Magick < 1249350008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science" < 1249351187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249351575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249352032 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249352133 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249352984 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249353337 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249353717 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249356048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCZ is selling 1TB SSDs... < 1249356048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeeze, that's crazy. < 1249356052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$2,200 crazy. < 1249356072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, *now* I'm impressed. < 1249356077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 1TiB. < 1249356094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right. Hard drive manufacturer using binary units. Fuck yeah. < 1249358950 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249359988 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249362179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249363574 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249363799 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249366979 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249368653 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-18.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249369195 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249369209 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249369211 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249369356 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249370718 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249372635 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-15-200.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249372799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249372800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249373112 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249373550 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who wants to leave their mind a smoking crater of knowledge can check: < 1249373554 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.0340 < 1249375200 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the self-published papers site? < 1249375240 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, category theory in quantum physics < 1249375253 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now surely I've seen everything < 1249375329 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very respected researcher, this is a major summary paper of the state of his thinking on some amazing cross-disciplinary connections < 1249375387 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for computer oriented people, the later section of the paper is obviously going to be 'home turf' but the whole point is the extensive and formally valid 'mapping between mappings of mappings' < 1249375507 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how conceptual/abstract is the mapping? < 1249375520 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, if it is actually formally valid... < 1249375536 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, since its category theory in the first place, its very very abstract - but it is also serious formal mathematics, not at all somebody making up bs < 1249375584 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean abstract more in a philosophical way.. but if you say there's no BS :P < 1249375632 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the goal of the paper is definitely philosophical, to show the deep structural correspondences between different fields, but the mechanism is a careful formal investigation of the actual mathematical content of the disciplines < 1249375714 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author, john baez, has one of the best websites that has ever been on the internet, 'this week's finds in mathematical physics' which was a 'blog' before anybody invented that ugly word - started on january 19 1993, how about that! < 1249376481 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1249377092 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249377251 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249377645 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249377850 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249377893 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-168-223.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1249377992 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249378040 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249378788 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249378935 0 :oklopil!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249380012 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249380075 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249380171 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://normish.org/home/immibis/jsrotate/ < 1249380264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heikki Kallasjoki's Master's thesis presentation 11.8 < 1249380281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be there and ask tricky questions < 1249380297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrr. < 1249380349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also Teemu Ruokolainen's (another guy in the speech group) similar presentation there in ten minutes; I'm about to go there to do some reconnaissance to see what them things are like. < 1249380405 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been to a few; the topic doesn't interest me that much so I wasn't planning on bothering with that one < 1249380449 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you" < 1249381173 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249381612 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1249382482 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool i'm so coming < 1249383237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, there was pretty much just the speech group people in that one, plus I guess some others involved in the two EU-funded projects it was related to. < 1249383272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The A328 room is not that big (fits maybe a dozen people comfortably) so don't start any mass movements, now. < 1249383311 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1249383394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to just keep my SPECOM'09 conference presentation again, to save some preparation time. Maybe slightly altered. < 1249383531 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't reuse a presentation, that's like having two of the same pokemon in a ball < 1249383560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I know what that means. Does it mean they start procreating in there? < 1249383605 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually have no idea, it started with like having these packs of pokemon cards, what if someone gets a pokemon they already have, then i just mixed it up a bit < 1249383626 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits pretty perfectly imo < 1249383650 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone already heard it, they'll probably laugh at you and throw a shoe < 1249383703 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kinda like you throw pokeballs?) < 1249383713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mikko's probably going to be there, and he's heard it already. It's probably harder to do shoe-avoidance in a small room, even. < 1249383791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's that famous mathematician joke with the "reduce to a problem that's already solved" theme; I'm just applying that to the presentation. < 1249383815 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess that makes sense < 1249385725 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it" < 1249387753 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387753 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387753 0 :Xiin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387754 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387754 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387754 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387755 0 :randomity!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387755 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387756 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387756 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387756 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387756 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387757 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387757 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249387757 0 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1249387824 0 :nooga!n=nooga@86-63-124-134.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :oklopil!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@203-214-111-155.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-22-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :Xiin!n=X@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust781.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :randomity!i=mu@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387824 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249387942 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388166 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaa < 1249388649 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388649 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388649 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388677 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388677 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@203-214-111-155.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388677 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388736 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388736 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388736 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388736 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388736 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388737 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388737 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388737 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388737 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388737 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388737 0 :Xiin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388738 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388738 0 :randomity!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388738 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388739 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388739 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388739 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388740 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388740 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388741 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388741 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388741 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388741 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388741 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388742 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388742 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249388786 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@203-214-111-155.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :nooga!n=nooga@86-63-124-134.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :oklopil!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388786 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-22-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :Xiin!n=X@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust781.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :randomity!i=mu@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249388787 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249390109 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p57B187B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249390908 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249390908 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249390908 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249390908 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249390954 0 :olegfink!n=olegfink@rain.ifmo.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1249390979 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249390979 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249390979 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249390979 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391340 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1249391340 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot < 1249391376 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391376 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391376 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391376 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391411 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391411 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391411 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391411 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391653 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391653 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391653 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391653 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391764 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391764 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391764 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391764 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391775 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391775 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391804 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391804 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391804 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391804 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249391808 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391818 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249391825 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249392117 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-233.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249393142 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249394934 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394934 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394934 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394935 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394935 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394935 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394935 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394936 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394936 0 :Xiin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394936 0 :randomity!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394936 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394937 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394937 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394937 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394938 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394938 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394938 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394939 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394939 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394939 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394939 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394939 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394939 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394940 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394940 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394940 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394940 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394941 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394942 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394942 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394942 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394942 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394943 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394943 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394943 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394943 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394943 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394943 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249394943 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249396043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249396116 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396116 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396116 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@81.49.247.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396116 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396116 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-066-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396118 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396154 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.249.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-116-39.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :randomity!i=mu@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :Xiin!n=X@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust781.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-22-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :oklopil!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :nooga!n=nooga@86-63-124-134.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@203-214-111-155.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :olegfink!n=olegfink@rain.ifmo.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-233.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396155 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1249396921 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249396928 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249397145 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249398822 0 :edwardk!i=c72ec6e7@gateway/web/freenode/session JOIN :#esoteric < 1249398855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249398918 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1249398930 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my regexp based C++ code analyzer is done :D < 1249399092 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1249399943 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249399946 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249400825 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1249401132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame that it probably fails. < 1249401142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(irregular syntax and all that jazz < 1249401478 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249401672 0 :edwardk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: what can it analyze? < 1249401689 0 :edwardk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh < 1249402220 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i doubt it fails if it just does comments, because c++ has a fairly simple lexing < 1249402282 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249402354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Yeah, that'd help a lot. < 1249402497 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.104.244.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249402997 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, what is edwardk doing here < 1249403010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Planning on making an esolang based on category-extras? :-P < 1249403029 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or did you decide that it counts as an esolang as-is) < 1249403076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249403097 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249403179 0 :edwardk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: actually thats kind of what kata is ;) < 1249403209 0 :edwardk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: a little less esoteric than the meat and potatos of this community though ;) < 1249403283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... yet another person here I don't recognise, this channel seems to be expanding massively atm < 1249403289 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Kata have anything online? A quick google only gives a few mentions < 1249403297 0 :edwardk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i wander in every few months < 1249403334 0 :edwardk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not yet, you can get some glimmers from the hac phi photos which generally have lots of kata scribbled on the walls, but hrmm. i have an old syntax fragment here somewhere < 1249403357 0 :edwardk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deewiant: http://comonad.com/Category.ks-old -- read class as an ML module signature < 1249403361 0 :edwardk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta run < 1249403417 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk's been here a few times < 1249403464 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I would if I knew any ML < 1249403472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks amusing enough < 1249403479 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately no one was fluent enough in category theory to understand him < 1249403516 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://yorgeys.smugmug.com/gallery/9039600_Ra9wn/2/601548443_XZNvE#601548455_HVNez-A-LB appears to have some Kata too, yes < 1249404386 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249404396 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249405513 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-170-21.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249405839 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249406380 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1249406383 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't said anything all day < 1249406384 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sez clog < 1249406387 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn netsplits < 1249406452 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway < 1249406454 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptops suck < 1249406456 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss < 1249406671 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1249406687 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't use anything else, but the bigger ones are kinda annoying to carry around < 1249406888 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:46 CESSMASTER has joined #ESOTERIC <<< does the server send the capitalization you use when you join? 8| < 1249406902 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(19:04 Asztal has joined #esoteric) < 1249407367 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without laptops I will never have a LAN party on a train < 1249407436 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellllllllll < 1249407442 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they suck because there isn't one that's good for me :P < 1249409521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249409732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sticks the insane uberbuild in a laptop case < 1249409748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignore the inexplicable bending of spacetime involved, please) < 1249409827 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249409908 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: xD < 1249409911 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any context? < 1249409935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Just the current one. < 1249409943 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. :P < 1249409979 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but how long does the battery last and how heavy is it?! < 1249409992 0 :edwardk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1249410004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Approximately 5 minutes, and it weighs a few hundred pounds.k < 1249410015 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 5 minutes? That must be a looooot of batteries. < 1249410035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Well, it's an uberbuild. Surely you wouldn't skimp on the UPS? < 1249410047 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a laptop. Yes. Yes I would :P < 1249410076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you don't have titanium legs? < 1249410082 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249411153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.erectuswalksamongst.us/ < 1249411198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could've sworn Homo erectus went extinct quite a while ago. < 1249411219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you count Homo floriensus as a subspecies of erectus)) < 1249411687 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-20.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249412181 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1. Race does not exist - a black person is just a white person with a suntan and wooly hair." < 1249412202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249412217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fnuck? < 1249413006 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no rite < 1249413018 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: so wtf is that site about < 1249413081 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be pro eugenics, lawl < 1249413152 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context: < 1249413153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-08-04 20:37:55 ( Chimpbama) If you recognize that Negroes carry mostly Homo Erectus traits ( http://www.erectuswalksamongst.us ) while all other races evolved fully into humans, you will love Chimpout.com! WE ARE NOT WHITE SUPREMACISTS, rather NEGRO INFERIORISTS! < 1249413157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : We at Chimpout.com love the rainbow diversity of humanity and welcome Asians, non-Negroid Hispanics, Semites, Indians, Gays, Whites, Turkics, etc. After all, I am Mexican. Join in the epic battle of hu < 1249413159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-08-04 20:37:55 ( Chimpbama) man vs NIIIIGGGGER at Chimpout Forums! http://www.chimpout.com/forum < 1249413292 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, wow. < 1249413305 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Human vs nigger! < 1249413332 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what channel's that from :D < 1249413332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Homo sapiens stultus. < 1249413335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: #haskell < 1249413339 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1249413341 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homo sapiens niggerus. < 1249413357 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: did he just say that and run or was he kicked? < 1249413363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He got k-lined < 1249413377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He had a chance to say it twice before that < 1249413430 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/the/ < 1249413430 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've been "debating" a nigger on youtube who thinks he "be an Izraelite an' sheyit". I've been kicking this nigger's ass throughout the debate (yet in typical nigger fashion, he thinks he's winning lol)" < 1249413430 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger. Nigger, nigger! Nigger. < 1249413430 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a whole new language.\ < 1249413431 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$// < 1249413456 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Niggers don't have skin, they have hide because they run around the jungle as naked savage apes." < 1249413506 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[You can trot out all the "magic niggers" such as Bill Cosby and Thomas Sowell all you want. They are a rare, rare kind that you niggers ostracized for telling "da troof" about your piece of shit coon-munity.]] < 1249413507 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1249413513 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic niggers. Coon-munity. < 1249413513 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so cheesy! < 1249413539 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249413564 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249413580 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How does a nigger feel knowing that they are the same color as thier shit?" < 1249413580 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess this guy doesn't like the Zune. < 1249413920 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it's transcended hilarity and entered < 1249413921 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["I don't hate niggers. I just think everyone should own one."- My mom]] < 1249413922 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depressing. < 1249413977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is so very depressing. < 1249414562 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://play.markharpur.com/img/logicfail.JPG < 1249414759 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite get what's going on < 1249414797 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a serious note, i think the resurgence of racism as a fashionable intellectual stance proves that the attempt by well-meaning people to censor and regulate speech had totally perverse consequences < 1249414837 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is, that if you tell kids that some words are not to be said, that some ideas arent allowed to be considered, you give those ideas power and status and appeal < 1249414848 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucking obvious though < 1249414852 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to a lot of people < 1249414855 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1249414859 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're not talking to such people :P < 1249414864 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats true ;) < 1249414871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: That's one hell of a screenshot, especially since you could just link to the page :-P < 1249414897 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mine < 1249414905 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your paste < 1249414938 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom < 1249414966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249414970 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would definitely like to own a slave, i don't care about color though. < 1249415000 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: as a practical matter, dont worry, you still can, even though such arrangements arent usually called that any more < 1249415007 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249415059 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would probably prefer a consenting slave, so that would be a better way to do it anyway < 1249415067 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you're talking about paying them < 1249415075 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might also be talking about getting a gf < 1249415114 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i was making a vague reference to several things - the most direct reference being the people who get illegal immigrant servants and then terrorize them into slaver with threats of deportation, etc - i could google for some links, there was a notable case recently < 1249415147 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound like something that happens much in finland, then again i wouldn't know if it did. < 1249415195 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens to some extent (i believe) based on most places that have a pool of illegal immigrant labor < 1249415195 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can't really imagine myself threatening anyone < 1249415272 0 :edwardk!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249415363 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not sure i'd want a slave, i'd probably just prefer having enough money so i could eat out more often. < 1249415371 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> less dishes < 1249415400 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just eat magic < 1249415440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: A "consenting slave" would be either a form of BDSM or an emlpoyee. ;) < 1249415472 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-104-109.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249415508 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the idea that money can replace slavery is actually morally sound and is why the liberal secular humanists need to get their heads out of their butts and start thinking intelligently about complex evolutionary dynamic systems rather than mindlessly thinking money == bad < 1249415527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: ... There's people who think money == bad? < 1249415546 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lots of them, and i talk like those people a lot of the time through sloppy language < 1249415563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought that the reasoning was that money implies power, and power is often abused. < 1249415569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pygbot.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pygbot/trunk/pyGBot/Plugins/games/Mafia.py?view=markup#l_799 < 1249415579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would be the reasoning of *sane* liberal secular humanists. < 1249415587 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes - but a lot of people are very sloppy about making that connection clear, and the association 'money is bad' happens rather than a real analysis of power and self interest < 1249415667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1249415875 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249416082 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: I'm a liberal secular humanist :P < 1249416089 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…though I've never said money is bad. < 1249416190 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't humanist usually imply secular < 1249416196 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: im a liberal secular humanist too! thats why i want us to stop talking foolishness < 1249416201 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't! < 1249416203 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: Shush you. < 1249416224 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: often, but not necessarily - for instance, you could think gods exist, but they arent important < 1249416254 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Anyway, I don't think non-capitalist systems should be rejected outright, though I haven't seen one that works yet. < 1249416279 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And there are plenty of capitalist systems that should be thrown out: completely "free" markets, for instance.) < 1249416300 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't work, someone will start a business that makes it work! < 1249416317 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: oh, im in favor of getting rid of 'capitalism' as it currently exists completely, in favor of an economy based on our best possible scientific model of processes on earth < 1249416318 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free market capitalism works because people always buy the better product! < 1249416348 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249416356 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fundamentally, capitalism is totally broken because the information flows that it is based on are horribly incomplete < 1249416371 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by information flows you mean what exactly? < 1249416373 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1249416375 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1249416377 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi impie < 1249416378 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249416384 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello cessie < 1249416384 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i live in a town with what used to be 4 beautiful lakes - it now has 4 totally disgusting and usable lakes due to fertilizer runoff and pollution < 1249416408 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a market system based on quantum darwinism < 1249416415 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happens because the information about and 'value' represented by the lakes doesnt really interact with the capital economy system - that important information is 'missing' < 1249416418 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only perfect transactions get carried towards through the future and the rest are sent to backwater universes < 1249416420 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your radical ideas on information technology as Salvation have occurred to others and been found wanting < 1249416425 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not wanting to pollute the earth is a bit too conservative for my taste < 1249416437 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: you're crazy <3 < 1249416457 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i dont support IT as salvation at all, in fact I think the use of IT in computerized trading may literally destroy the human race through unintended consequences < 1249416470 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird_: oh, im in favor of getting rid of 'capitalism' as it currently exists completely, in favor of an economy based on our best possible scientific model of processes on earth < 1249416471 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this part < 1249416472 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1249416489 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing, he never said IT < 1249416492 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: i love how you've stopped preaching to me, and just accepted no sense can enter my head < 1249416496 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249416499 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: i feel a lot better now :D < 1249416500 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: that simply means that we can no longer ignore the fundamental laws of science and the basic physical realities of our condition on earth < 1249416500 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well gosh what does he possibly mean < 1249416522 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodness, you mean quantum field politics < 1249416535 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv vs Pthing; I'll come back in 5 hours < 1249416551 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: no, not really - why are you trying to ridicule a concept that i certainly havent even stated fully or explicitly? < 1249416567 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is worth ridiculing every time somebody brings it up < 1249416576 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a trap a lot of people fall into < 1249416578 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: can you just answer me one thing, as a semi-unbiased observer < 1249416581 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"brings it up" - you are totally projecting onto me beliefs that i dont have < 1249416587 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: does your market system depend on quantum darwinism < 1249416610 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, it's more a matter of alarm bells < 1249416615 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: zurek's model of how quantum mechanical information is transmitted is incredibly important, but i doubt that it has any direct implications for human-level economics, no < 1249416626 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1249416627 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"economy based on * scienc*" < 1249416632 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* scienc* < 1249416640 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually make it scien* < 1249416657 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about irl economies < 1249416658 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientology? < 1249416662 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i dont understand the alternative - an economy based on ignorance? < 1249416665 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are so unpure and boring < 1249416668 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what they all are < 1249416670 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*impure < 1249416673 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an economy based on GHOSTS < 1249416677 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything else is a religious hope < 1249416693 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange definition of religious < 1249416697 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using it to mean "things i disagree with" < 1249416698 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I consider it more salvation from economics, rather than an actual economic system < 1249416708 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: sorry, i cant tell what you are responding to exactly - somehow are you saying economics is inherently based on ignorance, and trying to improve the quality of information available in our economic system is religion? < 1249416709 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, in a soteriological sense! < 1249416734 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1249416735 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Improving the quality, sure, but that doesn't mean destroying it and rebuilding it on scientific bases will achieve that < 1249416741 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, indeed, that it cannot be achieved any other way < 1249416755 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except from setting the whole world on fire and bringing in New Rational Economics < 1249416769 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll go wash the dishes. that's how impure and boring economy talk is! -> < 1249416781 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: im just looking at real-world problems - namely the fact that i have been economically impoverished by the loss of value caused by the destruction of the lakes in my town < 1249416799 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so what's the real-world solution < 1249416805 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happened because the value represented by the lakes - a real thing even to the most conservative free marketeer - that value was not integrated into the economic activites that took place < 1249416821 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human beings dump fertilizer and crap on their lawns, make golf courses - and those create real costs, and loss of wealth < 1249416832 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im saying we need to get MORE and BETTER information into the system < 1249416833 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes. but what's the real-world solution < 1249416848 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: you seem obsessed with the real world < 1249416848 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: set the world on fire and bring in New Rational Economics! < 1249416851 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may i point you to this topic < 1249416854 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, a good idea! < 1249416883 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: anyway, i do have specific ideas for how to bring more information flow into our economic system, but i dunno if anyone really wants any more monologue from me < 1249416891 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I do so < 1249416925 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, sure :) i 100% agree that this is an incredibly hard topic and that there is no silver bullet, and people who think that the world sucks just because mean people are mean, are clueless < 1249416949 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however i dont think that means we cant make huge improvements to the mechanisms of decision making and resource allocation < 1249416959 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liiiike < 1249416969 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: sorry man this takes a bit for me to try to establish the concepts < 1249416980 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are expect a 1 sentence solution, i dont have that < 1249416997 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no, the people with one sentence solution are the Worst People < 1249417005 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so often it just boils down to like < 1249417012 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Computer Will Tell Everyone What To Do. < 1249417017 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very sad to see < 1249417017 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted an oppertunity to say a pretentious comment, < 1249417018 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, i do know that the basis of our existence is that we are fragile clumps of carbon compounds existing in a very delicate equilibrium on a single planet, and all the evidence indicates that this is only a 'semistable' equilibrium < 1249417033 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*opportunity < 1249417034 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an < 1249417034 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1249417038 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\nd/d/ < 1249417041 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone will jump to rebut it < 1249417042 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll sit here < 1249417044 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being pretentious < 1249417046 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: no, i am absolutely opposed to the idea of computer-run economies, and i think high speed financial comptuerized trading is highly destructive of a sane economic principles < 1249417047 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having successfully trollaxed < 1249417050 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that in mind < 1249417062 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." < 1249417065 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Albert Einstein < 1249417087 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well man, that's not really the same thing < 1249417099 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the chain of reasoning that defines 'value' as 'that which a living being needs to sustain its life, and that which it subjectively chooses to pursue' is sensible as a starting place < 1249417101 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mycroftiv: btw you realise that you cannot stop people using computers to do it?) < 1249417111 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computers applied to high finance just make it easier for the bankers to make their pretend dollars < 1249417119 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they did it fine plenty of times in the past without them < 1249417135 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: i cant stop almost any of the bad things that happen in the world, i can just try to do what i can in the world i am in connection with < 1249417150 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: "pretend" dollars? < 1249417157 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, pretend dollars. < 1249417169 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway - its clear that our most important stock of 'value' is the planet earth we live on - if it goes away, we all get REAL POOR REAL FAST < 1249417201 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: right guess they're like fake dollars < 1249417203 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monopoly money. < 1249417217 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you are overlooking the possibility of space colonisation! < 1249417224 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heaven forbid < 1249417227 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so purely for 100% rational self-interested free-market reasons, it makes sense for people to construct a system of economic values that includes metrics based on the planet earth, and try to put as much information as possible from thsoe realities into the system < 1249417240 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: not at all - im just discouraged about its practicality based on the current scientific research and state of the art technologies < 1249417241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: How possible do you think it is that it's already happened? < 1249417241 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when it doesn't < 1249417250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I.e. it hasn't yet so it doesn't count.) < 1249417274 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: there was a time when i thought space travel and exploration meant we didnt need to worry too much about the planet, but a careful study of the facts has convinced me im totally wrong about that < 1249417284 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant! Come quick! < 1249417286 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i *was* totally wrong < 1249417286 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What is it John? < 1249417293 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I've found a way to cure ails. < 1249417300 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's impossible John, only praying can cure ailments. < 1249417305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1249417306 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's not! It's worked every time! < 1249417306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249417311 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Whatever. < 1249417313 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THREE DAYS EARLIER < 1249417326 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But what about the prospect of this… "medicine"? < 1249417333 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How possible do you think it is that it's already happened? < 1249417337 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the worst parable ever < 1249417342 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: My analogies are Deewiant-quality. < 1249417346 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Non sequitur < 1249417356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does happen 3 days from now, fine < 1249417359 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Turn your head and squint your eyes a little. < 1249417362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But given that it hasn't happened < 1249417368 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that it's not very likely that it's going to happen < 1249417373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In 3 days) < 1249417373 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: have i convinced you yet that i am a serious student of economics and social systems and science and i am legitimately trying to address difficult issues, not just spewing ideological dogma/doctrine i read somewhere else? < 1249417386 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's what you think. < 1249417388 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, oh sure, the alarm bells are disabled < 1249417388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not worth incorporating it into current plans < 1249417395 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have a fucking space rocket. < 1249417401 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Well sure, that's why I asked you about what you think :-P < 1249417422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( Deewiant) ehird_: How possible do ***you*** think it is that it's already happened? < 1249417426 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Emphasis added) < 1249417441 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Your sentence rivals "Has anyone ever been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?" in confusability. :P < 1249417444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you have a space rocket, then fine < 1249417446 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just disagree that you can really get it into people's self-interest that they need to become greens < 1249417450 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: thanks very much. i also think its possible to evolve to an economic system that makes use of more and better information without actually having to blow the world up < 1249417477 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without blowing up a little of the world, anyway < 1249417483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: I just wanted to use "possible" since you used "possibility" < 1249417486 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: well, its a very deep issue. i mean, if you believe that there is a God who takes care of the world for us and we dont have to, obviously you dont go along with any of this. < 1249417495 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I do not believe that. < 1249417513 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you disagree with me, you're religious. < 1249417518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I couldn't say "How likely do you think that it's already happened" < 1249417526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I guess doesn't help much, looking at it now < 1249417530 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i usually boil down all economics and politics to 'we have to persuade people to be secular in their decision making at least, and even if people want to cling to religious belief, they cant make it the basis of societal decision making and expect to prosper" < 1249417533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So meh < 1249417540 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1249417542 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This. < 1249417544 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a problem. < 1249417567 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i see it as the base problem - i think most people - even most 'secular' people - dont actually accept or understand the idea of rationalism and the scientific method < 1249417580 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And well they shouldn't. < 1249417589 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a lot of people who 'believe in science' like its a fucking religion, and think something is 100% true 'because science says so' and dont understand about models and revision of theories, etc < 1249417604 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even scientists don't. < 1249417641 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1249417643 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you sincerely look at the history of science and think "There goes an enlightened portion of the human race, rational and aware of the scientific method" < 1249417660 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, believing in the scientific method doesnt mean believing scientists are any different than any other human beings < 1249417671 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh sure < 1249417672 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Einstein just threw rocks at a wall and published it. < 1249417673 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trufax. < 1249417676 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying that. < 1249417679 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying < 1249417687 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say the problem is that most people *aren't* like this < 1249417696 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now this is, to me, quite a religious sentiment. < 1249417704 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea of producing a code too rigorous for anyone to follow. < 1249417728 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not moral, so unlike the ethical codes of religion, when holy men fail to follow it, people do not shout at them and call them hypocrites < 1249417749 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is no more achievable for all that. < 1249417750 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The scientific method is impossible to follow because I said so, therefore science = religion. < 1249417751 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249417756 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually , i think the idea of holding your ideas as theories, and trying to test and revise them vs. the evidence - i think that *is* a moral issue < 1249417756 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1249417761 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, yes! < 1249417765 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what makes it so exciting < 1249417772 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *make* it a moral issue < 1249417785 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you then, as is quite reasonable, apply it backwards < 1249417791 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does this make *everyone*? < 1249417810 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see myself as advocating any impossible standard - if you can persuade billions of people of the ideas of religion, surely the idea 'keep your eyes open, act on the best information you have, always try to learn more and revise those ideas' is not totally hopeless < 1249417831 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's a terribly good comparison < 1249417842 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You group "religion" together as though you can even do that < 1249417872 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249417877 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.104.244.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249417877 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1249417878 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1249417884 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people use abstractions and generalizations constantly - theres no such thing as a 'human', theres just an organized lump of carbon doing stuff, the idea of a 'human' is still a generalization/abstraction that isnt '100% true' < 1249417898 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but so what < 1249417911 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say the problem is twofold < 1249417946 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) Your conception of "religion" is too high-level, especially if you put it into parallel with something you call "the scientific method" < 1249417961 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a') especially when you ascribe an *ethical* quality to it < 1249417963 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im speaking casually, i happen to be a religous guy myself on the level of symbols and rituals < 1249417975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is one of the most absurdly meta discussions regarding religion I've seen in quite some time. < 1249418006 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) You think that the application of the scientific method *to* human society will come out of the individuals following it. < 1249418028 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b') The group of people who have used the scientific method most -- scientists -- show no real sign of this, though < 1249418055 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i think you are wrong in those assertions. 1st, the evidence shows that people DO bring their politics into line with their personal beliefs. need i point at theocratic societies? < 1249418082 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that supposed to follow, because I'm afraid I don't. < 1249418084 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and secondly, scientists are no saints, the evidence shows that clearly - but neither do i see many scientists who are active advocates of the most negative and damaging ideas < 1249418093 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: your statement 'b' < 1249418102 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see! < 1249418107 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but that's the thing. < 1249418109 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emergence < 1249418124 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could not derive Iran from first principles and the Koran < 1249418164 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do i think first principles or scientific evidence are sufficient to structure a society < 1249418171 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else, then < 1249418178 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not deny/denigrate the role of free human choice and emotion and 'whatever the hell we want to do' < 1249418217 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's a gross caricature to consider that everyone living in a theocracy is very similar < 1249418225 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just saying: currently, the organization of power and the principles our society is based on are still *mostly* religious in origin, i think - partly replaced now with a practical system of capital economy that is useful, but still missing a lot of information flows < 1249418238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:32] mycroftiv: im speaking casually, i happen to be a religous guy myself on the level of symbols and rituals < 1249418238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much for secular huh < 1249418239 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use the word "religion" again < 1249418261 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm still not sure what you mean by it < 1249418285 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i cant go out on the street naked. there is a law calling that 'indecent exposure.' the existence of that law is obviously due to religious taboos from my society./ < 1249418295 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249418299 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously? :| < 1249418301 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a simple example, but it seems pretty clear to me < 1249418308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249418310 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: yes! the historical record on this is far from obscure < 1249418316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv is pissed because he can't show off his genitals :D < 1249418323 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This really < 1249418327 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just illustrates my point < 1249418327 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they are beautiful and perfect, and squirrels worship them < 1249418332 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can't blame "religion" < 1249418335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: "Squirrels" < 1249418350 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because here it seems to me you are ascribing all norms you don't care for as being due to "religion" < 1249418382 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: um, not at all - but laws that are made to preserve 'morality' are so clearly religious in origin, as a clear matter of historical fact, that im confused what you are claiming < 1249418399 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is clear about it? < 1249418430 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that a huge amount of law and societal structure created in the past, and still being created today, is motivated by individuals attempting to bring the world into accordance with their religious beliefs < 1249418433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: do you accept that someone can be pro-indecent-exposure-laws without being religious? < 1249418437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, you're an idiot. < 1249418441 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: of course < 1249418444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1249418462 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, that sentence works exactly the same if you remove the word "religious" from it < 1249418466 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why do you put it in? < 1249418493 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: because the people who 'made the laws' put the word in there themselves, and its very important to them! < 1249418513 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you denying that there are still millions of people saying "we need to make laws to enforce the bible/koran/whatever' ?? < 1249418513 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put the word in? < 1249418545 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I am not denying that, I am just confused at the, well, the single minded focus you put on this. < 1249418545 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i need to link to some websites saying "we need to make this illegal/keep this illegal/ because of religious text A/B/C ?' < 1249418549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"religious beliefs" is a subset of "beliefs" < 1249418552 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1249418579 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not easy - I'd say impossible, to talk about beliefs that are clearly *not* religious < 1249418587 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, purely "religious" ideas < 1249418593 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not a good term < 1249418594 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: oh i absolutely agree - as a amtter of ontology, i think all knowledge is 'one' < 1249418597 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then < 1249418600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, it's possible to believe that a certain scientific theory will turn out to be correct < 1249418602 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you *behave* like it isn't? < 1249418604 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, fine, i am perfectly happy to eliminate the term 'religion' from my discoures < 1249418613 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so where were we < 1249418614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking rationally and coming to a conclusion being impossible since there isn't any evidence either way < 1249418618 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you rephrase: < 1249418619 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could state *everything* i just said in equivalent form without focusing on that word or tem at all < 1249418622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet i wouldn't call these hypotheses religious. < 1249418632 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i dont see myself as advocating any impossible standard - if you can persuade billions of people of the ideas of religion, surely the idea 'keep your eyes open, act on the best information you have, always try to learn more and revise those ideas' is not totally hopeless < 1249418641 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: ok, happy to restate < 1249418644 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please do so! < 1249418655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: no? < 1249418663 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes! < 1249418673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: Yes what? < 1249418675 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i dont see myself as advocating any impossible standard - if you can persuade billions of people of the truth of statements that contradict their own sensory experience, surely the idea... < 1249418678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No! < 1249418683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: MAYBE! < 1249418689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Nothing < 1249418691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: there's a difference < 1249418696 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i just wanted to make the lines the same length < 1249418701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: If you're told how the world works, you don't have to think. < 1249418708 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, can you? < 1249418710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telling them to be scientific doesn't work. They have to collate evidence. < 1249418711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think. < 1249418712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a conclusion. < 1249418718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not nearly dogmatic enough to instill in that way. < 1249418757 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: if you want i could be picking on 'superstition and the occult' - people who believe in esp, flying saucers, etc - instead of the 'religious' - or i could use lots of other terms < 1249418767 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im really sorry if something that isnt my central point - religion - seemed like it. < 1249418785 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound like a very good argument if you can replace it so glibly < 1249418818 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since if you're trying to show me that your position has *at least parity* with this other position < 1249418820 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i was using 'religion' as an easy antonym to the idea of progressively revising your ideas on the basis of experience < 1249418825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worth noting that #esoteric has never changed someone's mind on anything non-trivial. < 1249418828 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very lazy < 1249418834 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And poorly founded < 1249418850 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: sorry, it takes an encyclopedia to make even the statement 'water is wet' well founded by your standards < 1249418873 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language is inherently imprecise - im doing the best i can to communicate < 1249418885 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can persuade a billion people that Our Lady was assumed bodily into heaven, then surely I can persuade them to believe I can fly to Mars and back < 1249418904 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, persuade them that they *can* fly < 1249418908 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats very plausible, whip up a few miracles, sure < 1249418917 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because miracles don't work like that. < 1249418918 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the transcendal meditation people think indeed that they can fly! < 1249418922 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure!" < 1249418928 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I said is a good argument < 1249418930 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with one problem < 1249418936 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont even understand what you are arguing against now, other than simply trying to contradict anything i say < 1249418939 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might be able to convince that many people they can fly < 1249418943 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But will it make them fly? < 1249418947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Pavitra goes to that transcendental meditation "university" thing, iirc. < 1249418952 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second point! < 1249418954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: have you seen the video? < 1249418957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they hop around on their butts < 1249418960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while dramatic music plays < 1249418962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hilarious < 1249418968 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're using "religion" as the Big Thing that Makes Things Possible here < 1249418972 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: are you saying that even if you can convince people to 'try' to be rational, they will fail? thats a very good point, if thats what you are making < 1249418985 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of it < 1249418987 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but listen < 1249418997 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, religion, rather than just being a helpful variable for your arguments < 1249418998 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i said im happy to abandont the word 'religion' and switch to the term 'absence of belief in rational methods of observation and extrapolation/deduction' < 1249419006 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes well listen < 1249419025 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who don't... what whole noun phrase < 1249419030 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't doing it just to be perverse < 1249419031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's all shut up and watch some people hop around on their butts < 1249419032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3825056345770693923 < 1249419048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay? < 1249419050 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks fun < 1249419084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and YOU TOO can fly with a personal mantra for $2,000! < 1249419088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contact your local guru! < 1249419091 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People *before* you have tried to instill ethical systems into people < 1249419159 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the things that is grouped into religion is the whole idea of helping people to become better people < 1249419197 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, actually getting people to sit down, actually sit down and think about what they have done that is bad is only a *part* of it < 1249419206 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all the good religions have some form of it < 1249419210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is pointless gaiz < 1249419221 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one of the tragic confusions that people assume that morality is equivalent and can only be found in a non-rational belief system < 1249419224 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is your greater information deal < 1249419248 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it works, the reason why it comes up everywhere is because it works < 1249419255 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not the only thing, boy isn't it < 1249419283 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: and as a matter of fact, if i seem like i talk like some kind of 'opponent' of religion, that is simply me trying to situation my discourse somewhere - as it happens, i also have long essays on hindiusm, christianity, and what the ideas of sin and salvation mean < 1249419284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut the fuck up guys! < 1249419288 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about it, why do these people even have to sit down and think about their sins -- well, it's because they already done them, and the hope is that they won't be as bad in the future < 1249419290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've said like 10 things 50 times < 1249419305 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, good, then you're familiar with it < 1249419314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you both. < 1249419335 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that it is, as ehird says, this is not a new idea < 1249419342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did i say that < 1249419348 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you've said like 10 things 50 times < 1249419352 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEREFORE NOT EVEN SLIGHTLY NEW < 1249419354 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: maybe you will think im contradicting myself, but i read bhagavad-gita and i believe in something called 'bhakti yoga' which is making every single action you perform an act of prayer, and giving up the fruits of your work to try to escape the wheel of karma < 1249419369 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to think that's irrational < 1249419372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: so basically you say religion is fucking up society and think rationalism is great < 1249419376 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i even chant 'hare krishna' and am a vegetarian and believe in reincarnation < 1249419378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have your big boatload of personal irrational beliefs < 1249419384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no rational or scientific basis < 1249419390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure do feel like listening to you! < 1249419390 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently! < 1249419400 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, you guys are totally misunderstanding < 1249419410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:55] mycroftiv: Pthing: maybe you will think im contradicting myself, but i read bhagavad-gita and i believe in something called 'bhakti yoga' which is making every single action you perform an act of prayer, and giving up the fruits of your work to try to escape the wheel of karma < 1249419411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:56] mycroftiv: and i even chant 'hare krishna' and am a vegetarian and believe in reincarnation < 1249419413 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that i enjoy religious symbols and practices, and believe they can be 'translated' into meaningful terms < 1249419420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, you believe in reincarnation < 1249419422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not symbolism < 1249419423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or metaphor < 1249419425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's being reincarnated. < 1249419426 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not mean that i think we should make krishna and vishnu the basis for our economy < 1249419434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is incidentally amusingly meaningless) < 1249419437 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are, in fact, demonstrating the main reason why it doesn't work < 1249419441 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compartmentalisation < 1249419447 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: no, i dont compartmentalize at all < 1249419447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how mycroftiv was all < 1249419453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ohh people twist politics to their beliefs" < 1249419454 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sure about that? < 1249419456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then was all < 1249419461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HARE KRISHNA REINCARNATION" < 1249419500 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find the whole idea of rebirth a particularly abhorrent one < 1249419509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even make any fucking sense < 1249419512 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is absolutely no contradiction between enjoying religion as a system of symbols and finding ways to map that symbol system onto reality in meaningful ways < 1249419514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you lose all your memories? < 1249419517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how are you you old self? < 1249419520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*your < 1249419520 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and believing in rational decision making about public policy < 1249419534 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, sure, but then why say "I believe in reincarnation" < 1249419535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that's a copout < 1249419537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't map < 1249419539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being reincarnated < 1249419541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to physical reality < 1249419542 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "I think reincarnation is a neat idea" < 1249419548 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: because im a materialist, and i believe in the law of conservation of energy < 1249419551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1249419556 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: enter < 1249419557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not < 1249419558 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the space bar < 1249419564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: your mom isn't either but i still use her. < 1249419573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: what you just said is akin to the quantum mysticism bullshit < 1249419574 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point stands. < 1249419579 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why say "I believe in trying to escape the wheel of karma" < 1249419580 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, not at all < 1249419596 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that is a tremendously odious idea to me < 1249419604 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: because i think that is a shorthand, symbolic way of communicating the idea 'if someone hits me, i might get mad and go hit someone else - but i shouldnt' < 1249419615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv < 1249419616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv < 1249419618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not what karma is. < 1249419619 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1249419634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the westernised concept of karma < 1249419650 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: honestly, you dont understand what im saying, and you arent trying to. thats ok, this is still interesting, but all communication requires a sympathetic effort on the part of the listener < 1249419656 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I am listening. < 1249419659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shii.org/knows/Karma < 1249419682 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are making very poor usage of symbolism < 1249419699 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to be taking powerful symbols and stripping them of much of it < 1249419720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolism is where you say things mean vague and unspecified other things so that you can avoid admitting that you mean the actual thing < 1249419738 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncharitable, it's more a matter of association! < 1249419740 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249419741 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, all language is inherently symbolic, you cant escape the effort of interpretation, and its true that its always hard. < 1249419744 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249419746 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is < 1249419747 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue < 1249419753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:02] mycroftiv: ehird: no, all language is inherently symbolic, you cant escape the effort of interpretation, and its true that its always hard. < 1249419754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed that < 1249419760 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the assocations of the idea of "karmic rebirth" < 1249419762 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are WAY < 1249419762 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAY < 1249419763 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAY < 1249419766 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TREMENDOUSLY WAY MORE < 1249419770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Language is symbolic therefore escaping the wheel of karma is being nice" < 1249419773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense! < 1249419775 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than "gee i think we should be nice to people what do you think about that" < 1249419798 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People do the same to Jesus, reduce his whole ministry to "gee, just be nice!" < 1249419805 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is an insult, really < 1249419810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be nice! And stone adulterers. < 1249419813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also gays. < 1249419816 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there is no way to communicate without oversimplifications. i speak too many words as it is, and despite this, it is always easy to pick them apart. < 1249419823 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, you idiot, you're doing it now, ehird < 1249419830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: It was a joke, foo. < 1249419832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Þou win'ſt þe converſation. < 1249419849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: 'Tis called “ſarcaſm”. < 1249419851 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could work very very hard at trying to add 50,000 footnotes to every sentence i write, trying to show the 'context' in which the symbols should be interpreted, etc etc < 1249419851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I only win the conversation if you read my message in old english! < 1249419854 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suck you < 1249419863 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, sure, that's what symbols are for < 1249419867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone knows that the passages where he tells you to throw rocks at adulterers are just symbolic, anyway. < 1249419868 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people implicitly understand the context < 1249419869 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1249419873 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you REMOVE EVERYTHING < 1249419874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're symbolic for throwing *stones* at adulterers. < 1249419878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh! < 1249419893 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just say that you're treating karma as just a way to talk about being nice < 1249419900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: If other people don't understand you, < 1249419900 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a kind of symbolic *vacuum* < 1249419902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is YOUR failing < 1249419906 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: no, im not, if you want me to be more extensive about karma, lets go for it < 1249419910 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please do! < 1249419929 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I see people do this to religion and it makes me RAEG < 1249419935 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, since you guys have seized on this particular issue, lets dig into 'karma' and how to use the word meaningfully in a context where you want to overlap both the religious and the scientific symbol-mappings of the world < 1249419956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please let's not < 1249419966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not in the mood for religious bs atm < 1249419968 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make up your minds < 1249419970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: It's a bit more correct to say Jesus' ministry was "let's be nice to people for a change" than to say the same of karma. At least with Jesus' ministry, that was at least a major principle... ;) < 1249419983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I must be reading the bible all wrong. < 1249419993 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, ehird's mind isn't mind to make up < 1249419995 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have mine < 1249420000 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm p. sure I want to talk about it < 1249420005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: Everyone who disagrees with you is a hivemind. Trufax. < 1249420025 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i am being polite, the truth is YOUR MIND HASN'T GROWN IN YET < 1249420032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey. < 1249420033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I said Jesus' ministry specifically, because, well. Doesn't work so well with the *rest* of that book. ;) < 1249420034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking. < 1249420037 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get it on your 18th birthday and that's why the law is as it is < 1249420038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking from the perspective of mycroftiv. < 1249420046 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU TOLD A DEEP TRUTH < 1249420051 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT < 1249420063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: Confirm that you're joking, right? < 1249420081 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who can say~~~~~ < 1249420093 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm mostly just stalling for time until mycroftiv says something about karma < 1249420121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stalling's better than the result I think. < 1249420133 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :krsna to arjuna: "not by merely abstaining from work can one achieve freedom from reaction, nor by renunciation alone can one attain perfection. Everyone is forced to act helplessly according to the qualities he has acquired from the modes of material nature" < 1249420141 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thefore no one can refrain from doing something, not even for a moment" < 1249420158 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is on the topic of karma < 1249420165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone wanna volunteer to tell me when mycroftiv stops talking about bs? < 1249420175 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what would you like me to talk about? < 1249420180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249420183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something along the lines of not that. :P < 1249420194 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just ask, and i will speak only of that which you prefer < 1249420198 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creepy < 1249420220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: The molecular structure of the byproducts of salmon scales. < 1249420231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, face it. Your arguments are much weirder than that of Christian apologists. < 1249420269 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: honestly, i dont think i even got to make any arguments, all that really happened was the inability to make any statements without semantic conflicts and objections. < 1249420301 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont believe a single 'idea' that i have was successfully communicated, and im sure its my fault for poor communication < 1249420312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Because the statements you made made negative sense. < 1249420314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just no sense, negative sense. < 1249420314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd help if your ideas were less crazy. :P < 1249420316 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as i said, its my fault for poor communication < 1249420334 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the face of this < 1249420344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly sure that no communication could make me believe in the westernised form of karma. < 1249420348 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any hope for a more perfect information flow to Save Our Dollars? < 1249420350 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if you recall, my original idea was "it is possible to create an economic system that wont destroy the lakes in the town i live in, and i think for that to happen, people need to use rational decision making mechanisms more." < 1249420366 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if you can't get across these ideas < 1249420367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So did you formulate this "theory" just because you liked those lakes or something? < 1249420368 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so i fail to see how that particular proposition is really very crazy or contains 'negative sense', but ah well. < 1249420370 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hope is there for anything else < 1249420373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: I did not say negative sense. < 1249420379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please stop equating Pthing, pikhq and me. < 1249420380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is very offensive. < 1249420396 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sorry i didnt mean the 'negative sense' comment to be implied as coming from you! < 1249420403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1249420404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You're such an asshole most of the time that you don't get to say "x is very offensive" < 1249420411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: <3 u 2 < 1249420419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: And as you went on, your statements made me less confused about what you meant. < 1249420434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your initial idea was reasonable, and could be an interesting point of discussion. < 1249420440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got confusing with explanation. < 1249420457 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: s/less/more/ < 1249420468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Kthx. < 1249420472 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i agree, and my sense of that is that it becomes very difficult to keep a consistent meaning of terms when you cant establish a shared set of meanings in the conversation < 1249420486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Undoubtedly. < 1249420498 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249420535 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try to 'accept' other peoples definitions, and then make statements using *their* terms - to try to 'translate' from my inner representation to whatever language they are speaking, ideologically. its not easy and it makes me seem very inconsistent, because i want to find common terms to communicate with people using any ideology < 1249420622 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive noticed however that the very intelligent people that i most want to communicate with usually react like Pthing - something about what im saying 'smells bad' - too much overlap with cranks and flakes < 1249420643 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of unfair < 1249420658 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call a nation of a billion souls with thousands of years of history "cranks and flakes" < 1249420659 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i apologize, it wasnt meant as criticism of you - just of my own communication habits < 1249420677 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?? < 1249420691 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im saying i talk like a damn lunatic, like the fucking TIMECUBE guy < 1249420698 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1249420703 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, you just come across as like < 1249420709 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using big symbols for little reasons < 1249420713 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-38-136.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249420777 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: ive honestly lost track of where we were before getting (from my perspective) totally off-based by my admittedly sloppy use of 'karma' as an example, was there any thread that was interesting and worth picking up? < 1249420826 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ddddoubtful < 1249420900 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: If you disagree with me, you're religious. <<< reversing implications is a deadly sin < 1249420914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh i didn't < 1249421148 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, and now for something totally different: do you guys think there are any significantly different 'paradigms' of programming/language construction yet to be discovered? < 1249421168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many < 1249421198 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know i cant sensibly ask 'tell me about what we havent discovered yet ' - but what are some of your ideas for concepts that havent been fully developed/explored that point towards them? < 1249421240 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Pthing: i cant go out on the street naked. there is a law calling that 'indecent exposure.' the existence of that law is obviously due to religious taboos from my society./ <<< i'm with you on this one; except i guess i'm more in the direction of sex cult < 1249421241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many < 1249421429 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think the way to find them is by studying pure math, along the analogy of turing machines yielding the procedural/state machine paradigm, church's lambda calculus leading to functional languages, etc? < 1249421540 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the task/application motivated approach, as in how simula was created and led to OO, more likely to provide us with new toolsets? maybe thats an entirely false dichotomy - i guess i was just throwing it out to stimulate discussion < 1249421543 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's worth noting that #esoteric has never changed someone's mind on anything non-trivial. <<< when it comes to subjects like this, you could s/#esoteric/a conversation/ < 1249421550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: true :P < 1249421559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: dunno. just try shit :P < 1249421573 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: thats not true, ive had conversations that changed my mind completely - the bullshit i spew now is different from my bs of a few years ago, due to some people who were very convincing < 1249421604 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and due to acquiring new evidence of course, not just getting trolled < 1249421659 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: btw your ideas about a truly persistent OS with unified handling of the data objects etc - i think its absolutely great and would honestly like to help work on such a project, whenever you have it officially rolling < 1249421767 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249421768 0 :MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-233.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249421776 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249421793 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3825056345770693923 <<< greatest video ever < 1249421800 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1249421929 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: then how are you you old self? <<< same soul? < 1249421997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil < 1249422000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as a soul < 1249422003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: thanks < 1249422010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i would like to start working on it soon < 1249422027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame that it's only practical to do it on x86_64 < 1249422059 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, as a practical matter - despite the desire to support esoteric platforms - theres really nothing so wrong about that < 1249422065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249422065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Why only on x86_64? < 1249422076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's what i have and it's what everyone else has < 1249422083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aside from that being the most common platform) < 1249422097 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249422103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so that's about it. < 1249422106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay; that works. < 1249422153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Anyway, it's wrong because it means I have to code according to it, and it really sucks. :) < 1249422280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the best computers are all based on it, so what can you do. < 1249422320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how to handle partitioning in such a system; i.e. "SSD for OS, HD for media". Rich types, I guess. < 1249422340 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, there is another approach available! you could create an OS more along the lines of a self-contained platform that abstracts away from the host os/hardware - like Inferno as an example, or (in a lesser way) something like java or smalltalk itself < 1249422349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't think it's worth bothering supporting multiple media persistence because dammit, there's a 1TB SSD for $2k and an 80GB SSD for $250 < 1249422358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HDs will be dead long before this is worth using < 1249422387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: that kinda sucks for using forth at the low level though < 1249422397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it benefits so much from knowing the hardware wel < 1249422399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/l/ < 1249422432 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i agree, i was just offering it as a possibile option because hardware support is such a pain < 1249422438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1249422457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully things like graphics cards don't really matter for a looooong time < 1249422471 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably know a lot of the plan9 stuff has gone/is going in the direction of trying to free ride on the linux kernel to manage the hardware, and tons of developmnet oses take a similar strategy < 1249422472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bios sucks though < 1249422477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would love to build it on openfirmware or something < 1249422487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but afaik the OLPC XO-1 is the only x86 with openfirmware < 1249422494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yeah i dislike that < 1249422505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take away one of plan 9's main advantage < 1249422508 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: uhh i didn't <<< mycroftiv said a religious guy probably wouldn't agree, maybe you weren't responding to that in particular, or maybe you considered context as well, i just like to see reversed implications and be annoyed by them. < 1249422509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unified system architecture < 1249422516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: kay :P < 1249422542 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sorta dislike it but the fact is that human time and energy and resources are limited, and you want to put your time where it does the most good - and if you dont have a large team of devs with hardware skills, hardware can just be a real barrier < 1249422608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I wanted to compromise, I'd build it on unix < 1249422609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/!/ < 1249422613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I should stop making errors. < 1249422617 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: um, and now for something totally different: do you guys think there are any significantly different 'paradigms' of programming/language construction yet to be discovered? <<< yes. < 1249422653 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i know i cant sensibly ask 'tell me about what we havent discovered yet ' - but what are some of your ideas for concepts that havent been fully developed/explored that point towards them? <<< i have tons of vague ideas i can't explain! < 1249422672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: but really, building this on top of unix would result in… wait for it… Squeak. < 1249422686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you do NOT want anything to result in squeak < 1249422687 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: any referent for the ideas, or what existing stuff acts to 'trigger' them, make you say 'what if...' < 1249422688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/!/ (grr) < 1249422739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: For context, note that oklopil made a language based on lists of negative nesting (<> is 0, <> is 1, etc) and NOPs. < 1249422740 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: makes sense, do you have a plan to get started? target a VM specification, or a particular given 'generic' hardware spec? < 1249422767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the regular thing: support the standard x86_64/BIOS stuff, because differing drivers won't be neccessary until much later. < 1249422851 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: oklopil: thats not true, ive had conversations that changed my mind completely - the bullshit i spew now is different from my bs of a few years ago, due to some people who were very convincing <<< i'm not saying you can't change your mind about things due to conversations, yes, but what i said isn't even that much of an oversimplication, people simply suck at having conversations ime. < 1249422903 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are often great at talking though, that's why stuff like books and lectures work, because people are usually actually listening, unlike when having conversations. then again i am a simplificator, and a crazy person, so what do i know. < 1249422922 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: sure, i really do try to 'swear off' the debates about politics/religion/ethics and keep my time and energy focused on translating my ideas into 'real things' like software and music and essays < 1249422954 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously though the resolution to 'not get dragged into trying to explain my private mapping of the universe' is something i constantly fail though < 1249422978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird to be the only person without a crazy unifying theory. < 1249422984 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there is no such thing as a soul <<< believing in the soul is, ime, one of the simplest religious beliefs you can obtain, because of all the consciousness. but i was mostly joking. < 1249423013 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you have a crazy unifying theory, you are just smart and you keep it limited to a single domain you are expert in < 1249423071 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249423106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: yeah but i was rebutting it as a religious belief < 1249423111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :justifying it with another isn't terribly convincing < 1249423130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i'm really not certain I'd call myself an expert. < 1249423147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my last OS failed because i couldn't fuckin' get interrupts set up < 1249423175 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's weird to be the only person without a crazy unifying theory. <<< my crazy unifying theory is mostly ignoring the problem. < 1249423178 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, i honestly have no way at this point of really assessing your expertise, but im happy to give you the benefit of the doubt - and based on the satement you just said 'my last os failed' - that certainly qualities as 'expert' given that most people dont have a 'last os' < 1249423193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: it's all relative, though < 1249423205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making some code that can be booted by grub isn't exactly an odd thing for this channel < 1249423259 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend of mine just finished writing the network card drivers for his os < 1249423272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grub is incidentally not allowed in my os < 1249423273 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, but the point i was making wasnt about how great you are, but just that you certainly have at least the expertise required for your ideas (your 'crazy theory' of how an os should work) to be meaningful < 1249423274 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same guy couldn't solve the int(n/m) problem, grrr < 1249423277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has c, you see < 1249423289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i'd call that knowledge, not expertise < 1249423296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i generally reserve that for... well... experts < 1249423309 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can tell this is a damn language channel, you guys are fucking crazy for precise definitions\ < 1249423349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1249423363 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant string 5 words together in a sequence without subjecting at least one of them to a highly metaphorical and nonstandard use < 1249423390 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: some of the ideas i can explain are my graph definition language (which is more of a useless DSL), and Ef, which was based on taking fixed points of every function < 1249423391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not my problem :P < 1249423433 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graph thing, graphica, is my personal favorite; but Ef is, in some sense, a completely new paradigm < 1249423453 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: those both sound very interesting, im not sure how you build a language from 'fixed points of every function' - but thats my ignorance, id love to learn, got any references to check out? < 1249423470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: don't worry, it's not your ignorance < 1249423480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody understands oklopil's languages for the first few days < 1249423487 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: the basic idea is pattern matching on problems, then imperatively changing them. < 1249423494 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imperatively as in statefully < 1249423505 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: ok, that i think i get < 1249423514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nothing like that fwiw < 1249423583 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249423590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vitamins! < 1249423609 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's not what? :P < 1249423630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ef < 1249423655 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the canonical sort, sort={x:_;y:_;?xy=>[x y]=[y x]}; not sure what sort that is exactly, you find pairs that should be the other way around, and swap them < 1249423681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks like bubblesort. < 1249423703 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i see whats going on with statement, looks neat < 1249423703 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, except it's nondeterministic < 1249423719 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sensible compilation would be bubblesort, or something along those lines < 1249423740 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: basically a normal form of executing that on a list is taken < 1249423745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could also quite reasonably become a sorting network. :P < 1249423761 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, very parallelizable! < 1249423773 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait sorting network right < 1249423775 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249423780 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda misunderstood you there. < 1249423818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: ¿ < 1249423827 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1249423845 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1249423848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accidentally upside-down ? < 1249423880 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: [x y]=[y x] has to do with ef's completely insane value/reference semantics, which have nothing to do with the fixed point and pattern matching stuff < 1249423895 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to reinvent everything from scratch when i make a new language < 1249423920 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except a few things i consider fundamental enough to use without rethinking, like lists < 1249423956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: replace lists with sorting networks that sort things to that list's structure < 1249423962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and encode the values in this structure < 1249424046 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm almost incompletely not unsure what you mean < 1249424094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: basically, the idea is that everything is a sorting network < 1249424101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, if we have a list 1:2:3:[] < 1249424109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we encode the 1 in the way it resorts < 1249424118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then encode 2:3:[], "wrapping" each element of its encoding < 1249424119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show that it's the tail < 1249424125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursively, then using a sentinel sorting pattern for [] < 1249424133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, to operate on lists we make special lists ourselves for them < 1249424136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run it on them < 1249424142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and check the results < 1249424148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, everything's a sorting network that sorts other sorting networks < 1249424196 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway mycroftiv there's a lot of unused esolang material in mathematics already, many fun models of computation haven't really gotten famous enough to have been esolangified. < 1249424209 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, thats what i was asking < 1249424217 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if theres a lot of available formalisms that dont have languages matches to them < 1249424259 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know of that many, but this is what an esolang professor told me at uni < 1249424285 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance matrix multiplication is tc < 1249424310 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang professor? < 1249424333 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he does computation model stuff, so yeah :P < 1249424341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? < 1249424342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck awesome < 1249424346 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tilings mostly < 1249424365 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: basically you can do tm's by walking up and down a real number's digits < 1249424374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you hated reals < 1249424388 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did? well i don't :P < 1249424390 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have. < 1249424408 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249424416 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he had some results about reversibility of certain ca's < 1249424435 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was like can i have your autograph < 1249424441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: you said they're too numbery < 1249424443 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not out loud but anyway < 1249424459 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well yeah i hate *instances* of real numbers :P < 1249424475 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i enjoy the structure of the field though. < 1249424502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249424575 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that a lolling matter < 1249424592 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty fucking sexy field < 1249424643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hating instances of it < 1249424650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway as we all know reals are continued fractions. < 1249424654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND NOTHING ELSE < 1249424657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else is satan < 1249424668 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we are speaking about the real numbers - transfinite math, do we have any computer languages currently that can work correctly with the transfinite ordinals and other stuff like that from set theory? < 1249424734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249424735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom < 1249424755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: That depends: are the operations you want on them computable? < 1249424771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then we have plenty. The usage of them may just be very hard. < 1249424774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249424837 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: questions about the computability of operations on infinite sets are sadly over my head, im at the level of understanding the continuum hypothesis and the diagonal slash argument and the concept of a power set and all that, but my curiousity stems largely from wishing there was computer software i could work with that would teach me more < 1249424875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably Mathematica. < 1249424892 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the diagonal slash arg do you mean the proof that |reals| > |ints| < 1249424899 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i had access to that software, ever. thats what drove me to become a free software user and developer < 1249424922 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :download it < 1249424927 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: that is one of the most famous applications of it, but of course 'diagonal' type arguments show up everywhere, godel as well for instance, but i suspect you know all this better than i do < 1249425034 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much math < 1249425060 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just know one diagonalization argument < 1249425104 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: yeah, the reals > ints is probably the most famous one, and the direct reference i was referring to. < 1249425133 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the form of that argument is amazingly powerful and has become very much a 'standard tool' of proof in a lot of areas < 1249425197 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, i really don't know much about anything but basic algebra, and cs-related < 1249425203 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff < 1249425244 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway diagonalization is a pretty simple proof by contradiction < 1249425249 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p57B18FE4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249425259 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's interesting about power sets exactly? < 1249425275 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is how the chain of transfinite numbers is generated < 1249425286 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1249425318 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't think it's a good starting place for expanding your mathematical brain < 1249425373 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i wouldnt call it a starting place, ive been studying math for a long time now even though im not particularly good at it really < 1249425387 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since actually understanding all the math in modern physics is important to me, i keep working at it < 1249425403 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. physics is boring < 1249425417 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i think physics is 100% as interesting as the universe itself ;D < 1249425424 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex is interesting because physics FEELS GOOD < 1249425428 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes babies < 1249425431 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the universe is pretty boring :P < 1249425439 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, sex is fun < 1249425468 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm more interested in pure, simplified universes < 1249425515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baby universes < 1249425517 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: well, for all we know, at the lowest level, our universe might a rule 110 machine...we dont know what the little elves turning the cranks are up to in that regard quite yet < 1249425519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWI = sex < 1249425527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Nice try, Wolfram. < 1249425577 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wolfram didnt invent those ideas, people have been speculating that the universe is just a computation since newton < 1249425586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rule 110". < 1249425620 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* simple and cool example, back when i was talking about this stuff in the late 80s, i would have said 'the universe is like the mandelbrot set' < 1249425718 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mandelbrot set is much less discrete computation -y < 1249425724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get the impression that you're like 40 < 1249425728 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean as a side note < 1249425733 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, almost < 1249425746 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you didn't get that impression before thsi? < 1249425748 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this < 1249425752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: well i did it was just forming < 1249425759 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopil: yes, actually the question of discrete vs fractal/continuous is really important when trying to make a model that is more meaningful than just metaphor < 1249425765 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which btw i dont think anyone has actually done!) < 1249425779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess when intelligence's brain cells die they excrete crazy :D < 1249425819 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i used to be much crazier, i decided quite awhile ago i had to try to work much more within the pure science/math domain to get anywhere < 1249425832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh i am GLAD you didn't come here then < 1249425843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz you're pushing new boundaries in #esoteric craziness :P < 1249425897 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't find him all that crazy, maybe i'm too crazy to notice it < 1249425906 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, i still havent managed to syncrhonize myself with the prevailing discourse, i was early figuring the 'lets slag on religion thing' was an easy way of expressing certain ideas, but that was a mistake, i got called on it rightly < 1249425945 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then i end up trying to prove that im not a hater-of-religion, which ends up making me seem very incosistent suddenly - even though i think religious symbolism and ritual is orthogonal to public economic policy, which i thought was teh topic < 1249425947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't really interested in the anti-religion stuff because i pretty much exhausted all the realisations with regards to it like a year ago < 1249425970 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, that was my mistake in how i was situating my statements - i thought the kids today were all into that dawkins-hitchens perspective < 1249425983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitchens is kind of a dick. < 1249425988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dawkin's ok though. < 1249425995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dawkins', whatever < 1249426004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think there's many kids in here really < 1249426018 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you actually want to *convince* people, i think they are just preaching to the choir and alienating the people they are trying to persuade, actually < 1249426030 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i meant that purely as a joke use of language < 1249426036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249426052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been an atheist since like 9 and an agnostic since forever < 1249426054 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there are tons of kids here < 1249426058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although really, I basically just never considered that god might exist < 1249426065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't ever exposed to the concept, really < 1249426076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I still found The God Delusion a good book < 1249426086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helped explain to me why religion was so prevalent < 1249426094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dawkins has plenty of non-anti-religion books anyway < 1249426094 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: one of the reasons i can be frustrating to communicate with is that i believe language is a map and i try to figure out what map the person i am talking to is using, and then speak using its landmarks < 1249426114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unweaving the Rainbow is still basically anti-supersitition, but it's mainly about how beauty can come out of analysis and how coincidences really do exist < 1249426134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you can't subvert biases by using different words unless you're really effective at it imo < 1249426193 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah i produce the opposite results sometimes, because of the inconsistency issue and trying to communicate with multiple people at once < 1249426242 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if im trying to talk to someone who believes in stuff like esp and ufos and that i think is 'confused', i can sound like im failing to actually maintain my beliefs because im not contradicting ideas that i think are 'confused' (== wrong) < 1249426250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't argue with cranks < 1249426252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waste of time < 1249426264 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love cranks, i study thenm < 1249426269 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i work very, very hard on not being one < 1249426277 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why hard science and math are where i try to situate myself now < 1249426290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum darwinism man :) < 1249426294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah yeah I know) < 1249426299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just love hatin' on that name) < 1249426334 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ...yeah it makes me grit my teeth too, the thing is zurek keeps trying to come up with a name since he realizes people just dont understand the significance, even if they agree with his work. < 1249426344 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his old term was 'the existential interpretation' which meant nothing < 1249426360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'd trust a theory whose originator thinks it's really important < 1249426365 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'decoherence' is still the most used term for the basics of his approach, but hes advanced a long way past the simple... < 1249426395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the more "correct"/"possible" universes traveling forwards in the dimension of time, right? < 1249426397 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that was my guess as to the psychology of his changing his terminology, please dont confuse my random bs with what the man actually says < 1249426399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the less suitable ones not being able to < 1249426417 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to see a wacky theory, see my Oracularity that got digested (no, it's not a serious theory) < 1249426429 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: its specifically based on the actual math of the quantum equations that 'everyone' agrees with, and actually studying how information is transmitted between systems through time. < 1249426431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call it something like "spatial decoherence" since it's moving forwards in time to get a chance at space. It's not a terribly meaningful name, but it sounds okay. < 1249426464 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea is that 'classical' type information, where the ball bounces off the wall, is far more likely to sucessfully transmit than the information that matches the ball going through the wall < 1249426474 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(im oversimplifying deliberately to the pop sci level) < 1249426481 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not because i think you need it, just to speak quickly) < 1249426481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop sci level is a good way to get a good name though < 1249426516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what you're saying I basically gather that it's: more classically probable information has a better chance of moving forwards in time to affect space < 1249426527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the less classical outcomes will lag behind, so to speak < 1249426531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, wildly analogising < 1249426537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that I'd still call it spacial decoherence < 1249426541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spatial < 1249426549 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost exactly correct - in your statement, you should substitute 'other quantum systems' though for the word 'space' < 1249426551 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not sure I'd trust a theory whose originator thinks it's really important <<< iirc the cross product was considered like the final salvation by its inventor < 1249426570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cross product isn't exactly a theory :P < 1249426588 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no, that was more of a random piece of funny information. < 1249426604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yes but that gives quantum decoherence. < 1249426605 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think zurek believes (correctly) that his work has mostly resolved the 'quantum measurement problem' and paradoxes like schrodinger's cat. his work is real science, its hard math, it can be tested by experiment also. so his opinion i dont think is relevant to evaluating it. < 1249426610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is taken, I gather :D < 1249426618 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: zurek's work IS quantum decoherence!@ < 1249426625 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is one of the guys who is responsible for a huge amount of that work! < 1249426628 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tahts HIM! < 1249426630 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249426632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: I don't accept your claim that quantum darwinism objectively true < 1249426642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and plenty of people accept decoherence but don't, afaik, subscribe to this interpretation < 1249426648 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it can be objectively tested and verified with standard mathematical analysis and experimentation < 1249426649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it only makes sense to separate them < 1249426652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: so you keep saying < 1249426664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people disagree with you, so we don't simply call it "the truth" < 1249426671 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, "QD" is the name zurek gives to his more recent work that extends the decoherent paradigm < 1249426688 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sorry if i was seeming to state things non-carefully, let me translate the language: < 1249426756 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"within the current dominant paradigm casually referred to as western science, the principles of quantum mechanics are widely accepted. zurek is a mainstream practitioner who's work is mostly done via pure mathematical manipulation, so his results are widely accepted as valid. it is only a model, and more study and data are needed, because it is a relatively new model." < 1249426775 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did all of that make it to channel or was it too long? < 1249426807 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all made < 1249426810 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i personally think that a lot of the information in a careful statement like that can 'go without saying' between people who mutually understand the principles of the scientific method < 1249426848 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i apologize if i seem to make statements that should be made carefully about models, predictions, and 'best current explanation of data' - and state them in the language of fact, etc. < 1249426867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never heard of quantum darwinism being accepted, though < 1249426876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its wikipedia article is small and you're the first i've heard of it < 1249426876 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that? < 1249426881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all your links are from arxiv < 1249426883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying < 1249426887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem like something every physicist accepts < 1249426898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what i've seen most of them go for copenhagen < 1249426973 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, i dunno, i think you are mistaken on this. i think if you actually talked to the mainstream university tenured scientists who are expert on this issue, they would have the highest praise for zurek's work, and say that he has made amazing factual contributions to our understanding < 1249426992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just skeptical < 1249426994 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249427007 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his papers are widely cited, and the people who are actually spending tons of money on quantum computing are basing their engineering efforts on the theorems he has been part of proving < 1249427099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the d-wave blog mostly makes reference to MWI < 1249427102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not qd < 1249427106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least what i've read < 1249427114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and d-wave seem to be the main name in actually making quantum computers < 1249427151 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the work of zurek's that is directly related to quantum computing is not QD, its his work on quantum computation/informatino theory and entropy etc < 1249427183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm < 1249427184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-Wave has been heavily criticized by some scientists in the quantum computing field. According to Scott Aaronson, a Computer Science professor at MIT who specializes in the theory of quantum computing, D-Wave's demonstration did not prove anything about the workings of the computer. He claimed a useful quantum computer would require a huge breakthrough in physics, which has not been published or shared with the physics community.[1] Dr. Aaronson has mainta < 1249427185 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the fact i link stuff from arxiv doesnt mean that those arent the preprints of papers that were published in major journals with peer review < 1249427213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umesh Vazirani, a professor at UC Berkeley and one of the founders of quantum complexity theory, made the following criticism:[2] < 1249427213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Their claimed speedup over classical algorithms appears to be based on a misunderstanding of a paper my colleagues van Dam, Mosca and I wrote on “The power of adiabatic quantum computing”. That speed up unfortunately does not hold in the setting at hand, and therefore D-Wave’s “quantum computer” even if it turns out to be a true quantum computer, and even if it can be scaled to thousands of qubits, would likely not be more powerful than a cell ph < 1249427214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wim van Dam, a professor at UC Santa Barbara, summarized the current scientific community consensus in the journal Nature:[12] < 1249427215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At the moment it is impossible to say if D-Wave's quantum computer is intrinsically equivalent to a classical computer or not. So until more is known about their error rates, caveat emptor is the least one can say." < 1249427218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok forget d-wave < 1249427245 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was gonna question the relevance of the 'd-wave blog' for anything, but since i havent read it, i dont have an opinion :) < 1249427267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: d-wave seemed reputable enough to me < 1249427274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw a lot of sane-seeming pepole say "yay" about it < 1249427278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've got in newspapers < 1249427280 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said i have zero opinion! ive never read i! :) < 1249427285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the blog seemed sincere and honest < 1249427287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yeah just saying < 1249427297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't reading some random kid's blog about his supposedly quantum computers :P < 1249427312 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every computer is quantum < 1249427317 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made of particles and shit < 1249427340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurp durp < 1249427356 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: anyway, copenhagen isnt an explanation of how the classical world results from the quantum - its a model that says 'we dont have to worry about it' - every physicist agrees that if you accept quantum theory as real, you have to explain ultimately (in ways copenhagen doesnt) the entire system of experimenter/appartus/subject as quantum < 1249427386 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mainstream model of that currently is definitely the decoherent paradigm < 1249427405 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which zurek has been a leading researcher, and QD represents the 'state of the art' of his research on this topic < 1249427414 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it may well be totally wrong < 1249427427 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if quantum mechanics isnt 'really fundamental' we can obviously throw it right out < 1249427447 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if further experiments on the transition between the quantum and the classical scale contradict its predictions < 1249427608 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QD is nothing more than a certain model that seems to do well at showing that we dont actually need 'new physics' to explain the appearance of the 'classical world' - it actually *does* emerge properly, just from the current known quantum equations < 1249427670 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249427758 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i think the fact that its not famous or well known yet (or may ever be) is because it isnt challenging or overturning anything - its basically saying that the current equations we have work even better than we had thought! and for working physicists the 'measurement problem' has never been a really huge concern anyway, since experiments DO work as a practical matter < 1249427848 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the value of zurek's work is actually that it powerfully *rebuts* people who want to find some kind of 'magic' in quantum theory they can use to make telepathy or other such pseudoscience plausible < 1249427990 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his work strongly suggests that all of the 'weird' behaviors of quantum mechanics are unlikely to create any macro-scale 'loopholes' that we can exploit. < 1249428244 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking purely for myself, from my reading of zurek's work, i think it actually implies that we arent likely to get a good quantum computer anytime soon, because the orthogonal basis states it depends on are just so hard to maintain < 1249428510 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249429236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1249429306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: well there are quantum computers, just near-0k ones < 1249429312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't mean price :D < 1249429324 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, its the scaling up to many qubits thats hard < 1249429325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a few qubits aren't exactly useful < 1249429327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249429341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: it sort of depresses me that quantum physics DOESN'T let us do freaky stuff :) < 1249429351 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thats where the 'nature doesnt like to maintain superpositions' problem kicks in - i have a theory that theres probably a catch 22 at work < 1249429396 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount of energy required to create the conditions to maintain the necessary number of qubits could probably do 'just as much' computation on their own if pumped into old fashioned chips rather than maintaining a coherent apparatus for the quantum superpositions < 1249429417 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might turn out to be a kind of implication of the 2nd law < 1249429456 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah i remember reading pop sci stuff about 'tachyons that go back in time' and being very disappointed i couldnt buy a tachyon telephone and that they didnt actually exist anyway < 1249429475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249429571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my personal pet physics-wish is that we can send information across everett branches < 1249429584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := inter-universe communication < 1249429662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not really any evidence or theories at all on that one < 1249429664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i know < 1249429687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course quantum darwinism probably says all the fun universe's genes will have gone extinct :D < 1249429773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: amirite < 1249429836 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: its hard to say...if you could create an environment (such as quantum computing tries to) where stuff wasnt constantly transmitting information back and forth, then maybe the evolution of the state would be different < 1249429850 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249429879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cross-everett-branch communication only works in the purest form of MWI < 1249429885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., each quantum event truly does split the universe in two < 1249429894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are literal, existing, multiple universes < 1249429898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that all survive < 1249429978 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id have to look at some mathematics, but how does transmitting information between everett branches avoid violations of the laws of thermodynamics? < 1249430011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i know it doesn't. < 1249430024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entropy never decreasing is a statistical law anyway isn't it < 1249430030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the probabability of entropy decreasing is 0 < 1249430035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean it's impossible < 1249430071 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: aha! well, this is very interesting...this goes to the heart of the issues - because a lot of zurek's work is devoted to showing that the 2nd law of thermodynamics is the direct consequence of the conservation laws that apply to quantum interactions < 1249430098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but zurek's work doesn't even have literal multiple universes as i understand it < 1249430106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have to ignore it to even consider this communication < 1249430140 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, i think thats debatable, because 'multiple universes' is mostly a semantic/philosophical level interpretation of what sets of equations 'mean' more than a mathematical statement itself in this case < 1249430160 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could say in many ways that zurek's work is 'all about' studying the multiple universes and exactly how/if they can interact perhaps < 1249430173 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that zurek himself places his work in the tradition of that school of interpretation < 1249430181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1249430186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cool, anyway < 1249430186 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(working from the MWI idea of 'taking the equations seriously and literally') < 1249430191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if it violates thermodynamics < 1249430196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want my extra energy, bitch < 1249430221 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1249430246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i'd find it incredibly depressing if entropy can truly never decrease < 1249430258 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird : it can decrease < 1249430259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of like the universe and life and such. < 1249430268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: Yes, it just has probability 0, etc, se ↑↑↑ < 1249430269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*see < 1249430281 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not 0. < 1249430282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: Anyway, what interpretation do you subscribe to? I'm sure I asked before. < 1249430283 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just low < 1249430294 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird : I'm an instrumentalist < 1249430305 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, I consider physics as a tool < 1249430320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: That's not a quantum interpretation :P < 1249430320 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't care too much about the metaphysical truth behind < 1249430330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean Copenhagen/MWI/blah balh blah. < 1249430332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blah < 1249430332 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's a way to differentiate the two, why not < 1249430364 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249430367 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: well, the thing that is exciting to me is that the 'reach' of our quantum mechanical 'tools' i think has been extended a lot, and now we can see that those tools still work even at the classical level < 1249430371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tooooo late < 1249430371 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah! < 1249430376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He'll be back. < 1249430377 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-22-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249430380 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:| < 1249430380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Told you so. < 1249430383 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: well, the thing that is exciting to me is that the 'reach' of our quantum mechanical 'tools' i think has been extended a lot, and now we can see that those tools still work even at the classical level < 1249430383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59] mycroftiv: Slereah_: well, the thing that is exciting to me is that the 'reach' of our quantum mechanical 'tools' i think has been extended a lot, and now we can see that those tools still work even at the classical level < 1249430384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:59] ehird: Tooooo late < 1249430384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:59] mycroftiv: bah! < 1249430384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:59] ehird: He'll be back. < 1249430386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1249430388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^2/[2/ < 1249430393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You guys all understand regexps, right? :P) < 1249430416 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand s/// < 1249430424 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, i practically speak (*$%|*(#$&*/#*($&\/\#(*$ as my native language < 1249430508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Oh so witty < 1249430512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is line noise amirite < 1249430532 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the defintion of unix, right? "40 defintions of regexp living under one roof" < 1249430564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never understood why there wasn't a standard regex toolset for unix < 1249430574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the obvious thing to do from the start < 1249430583 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same reason we have more than one programming language in the world and more than one use of symbols in computers in general < 1249430593 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people like to make their own thing < 1249430615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: but Ken Thompson did it! < 1249430625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix philosophy! they actually used it those days < 1249430627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not for regexp? < 1249430653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very much in favour of the operating system providing a whole lot though < 1249430674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Arguably bloat, but I don't separate the operating system and the programs on top, so.) < 1249430682 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the distinction between OS and software is something we should get beyond anyway < 1249430691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1249430697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my OS is object-based < 1249430705 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fight with plan9 people about this a lot, because i think they dont even understand their own os or its concepts really < 1249430714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intelligent objects with methods to manipulate and transform them, plus extra methods that make a visualisation of that object and provide a UI to manipulate it < 1249430727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd be hard-pressed to sell any "software" for it < 1249430738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Adobe bitmap image editing components 7.0!" < 1249430834 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how do your provide visualization and UI for objects in a 'universal' way? how do you avoid having specific software tools to work with specific types of objects? < 1249430873 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not so much avoid as discourage < 1249430901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: because you don't give a tool object the object to work on < 1249430906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ask the object for an interface < 1249430909 0 :jix!n=jix@p5B26228D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249430918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the emphasis is very much on communicating with smart objects < 1249430933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tools don't contain their behaviour, really < 1249430939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interface just asks the object directly < 1249430942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you add stuff to the object < 1249430944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you CAN do a tool < 1249430946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd be awkward < 1249430947 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well, in that case the mapping simply places the traditional software/UI component inside the object, sure < 1249430952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be really hard to start etc < 1249430961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: well, there are extensible interfaces ofc < 1249430983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at the end of it, you're clicking something that modifies an object it's showing, yes. < 1249430989 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is paradigm for 'shifting' data as content between different interfaces? < 1249430996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the workflow differs < 1249431003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: well, when you ask the object for an interface < 1249431007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives you an appropriate interface object < 1249431012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that interface obviously contains the object < 1249431013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1249431017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just grab the object from the interface < 1249431020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ask it for another interface < 1249431024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-destructive updates < 1249431027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you flip an image in a UI < 1249431028 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it attach to and make use of interface components/tools located in other objects? < 1249431029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't change the image < 1249431032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just updates the image in the interface < 1249431036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so e.h. < 1249431038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e.g. < 1249431039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can copy that < 1249431042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and manipulate that flipped image < 1249431042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1249431045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link the two images together < 1249431049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and manipulate the image as you work < 1249431049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1249431061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have an inverted image of another interface's image < 1249431063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scale the image in the latter < 1249431067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it updates the inverted image < 1249431070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: sure < 1249431153 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, im thinking about how to translate various tasks from the traditional model to this model < 1249431180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really have specific things fleshed out < 1249431186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the general model seems sound < 1249431198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be careful about where you place your object in the abstraction layer tho < 1249431205 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so - old model - i have (your favorite!) a text file - i can bring the data from that text file into a 'word processor' app to do various font/formatting stuff, or i can bring that text data into my 'rpg game creator' environment to use as a message on the wall the player can read < 1249431207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (webPage browser) isn't acceptable < 1249431212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have cookies and the like < 1249431229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: ok, lemme give that a shot < 1249431233 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, in the new model - the base object of the content can provide me a 'word processor like interface' by making use of that module, right? < 1249431257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You bring up your text object, which brings up the default interface, which has the ability to switch to other interfaces. < 1249431266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First you might convert it to rich text, say. < 1249431280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You select your desired interface, and do font/formatting stuff like usual. < 1249431285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have e.g. < 1249431294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlainText>>awesomeWordProcessorInterface < 1249431299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the source being like < 1249431314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self interfaceUsing: [ AwesomeWordProcessor new with: self ] < 1249431325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you have that rich text < 1249431332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you extract the object from it < 1249431335 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i want to 'connect' the interface of the basically textual object to the object that is game/game-dev like, the text object 'imports a component' from the game/dev object to allow the interfaces to interact? (typed this while reading your explanation btw) < 1249431340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, in your RPG creator < 1249431351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you plug in that object in to the "message on wall" fied < 1249431353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*field < 1249431360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you plugged it in directly from the word processor without copying < 1249431363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can edit in the word processor < 1249431366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it edits in the rpg < 1249431367 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, yeah, i think i see how it can be modelled and work within the context youve described < 1249431369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you copy it like usual < 1249431372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's a snapshot in time < 1249431393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: generally there's not too much separate interface interaction, since that just leads to "app"-specific hell < 1249431400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you generally operate directly with the objects < 1249431405 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, im trying to 'think my way out' of the paradigm < 1249431415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, you could absolutely stick two interfaces together and tell them to talk < 1249431417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they know the other < 1249431429 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking as a hypothetical user working with the hypoethetically existent system and trying to visualize what is im doing < 1249431443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm speaking in vague things like extracting the object because i haven't got on to the actual ui work < 1249431448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't know how exactly you'd go about that < 1249431527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: one thing I'm totally unsure on is how to go about versioning every change of everything < 1249431531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to eat up disk < 1249431537 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you are pursuing a kind of 'vision of purity' i would say as your design work continues you should make sure to create some imaginary user interfaces as you go < 1249431539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i hate not being able to undo < 1249431584 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, cant you still have the fundamentals of persistence but still be smart about 'delayed writes' to the actual disk? < 1249431594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's handled in the persistence layer < 1249431599 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249431602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that if you track every single atomic change to every single object < 1249431609 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, just so much data? < 1249431609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your 2TB disk fills up uncannily quickly < 1249431612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249431626 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, i dont think it does if you use deduplication down in that persistence layer probably < 1249431629 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need real world testing < 1249431633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1249431638 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think youd be surprised how much deduplicative storage can gain you in that regard < 1249431647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that is; I'll look it up < 1249431666 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicate data blocks get stored as a pointer reference to the existing data block, not as a new redundant copy < 1249431668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: basically diff. < 1249431672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hardlink backups do < 1249431683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any time you see an unchanged file, make it a hardlink instead < 1249431693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except more fine-grained < 1249431699 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, its that kind of thing, but dedup data storage yeah is block level < 1249431709 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for your system, you want to do something like 'rabin fingerprinting' i think < 1249431730 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all your low level technical stuff to make your persistence concepts not actually kill your real world disks < 1249431741 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you correctly saw the need to anticipate < 1249431793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah thankfully i can skimp on that at first < 1249431799 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think you dont actually need to worry too much is what im saying < 1249431803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to my test objects being measured in kilobytes of text :P < 1249431807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yeah < 1249431812 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your idea of total persistence and versioning of everything - i think its actually real world practical < 1249431814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely though something like an HD video editor will want to throw away data a lot < 1249431816 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things from Napoli are called Neopolitan (in English). I feel they should be called Napoleon. Discuss. < 1249431827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i mean in cases like that < 1249431831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually being able to use it trumps usability < 1249431834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know what i mean < 1249431839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: lawl < 1249431871 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah it seems like being able to say 'ok dont version/make persistent this particular 5 minute video im watching on a porn site' is probably something you want to allow < 1249431879 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249431885 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you said total freedom for the user is a base design principle < 1249431891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it is < 1249431892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1249431897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more a gnome man than kde < 1249431909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I definitely don't think edgecases need to be accounted for in the interface < 1249431912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to manually telling the object something < 1249431925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you can do anything, it just might not be pretty < 1249431969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just a standard UI compromise < 1249431973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always make a new one for a new purpose < 1249431977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and transition your objects over < 1249431980 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249432031 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :away for a bit now, thanks for explaining some more of the concepts to me < 1249432060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np :) < 1249432063 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw is there any name for this other than 'ehird's crazy persistent/versioned/rich object os' ? < 1249432082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: hehehe where do i start < 1249432089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naming is the hardest part of any project < 1249432093 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no doubt < 1249432099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i totally suck at it < 1249432116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's call it foop or zoop or something for the sake of it < 1249432123 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, just to give it a conventional label < 1249432142 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet if you google though someone has already stolen the foop/zoop namespace for software projects < 1249432151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant temporarily < 1249432153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's taken < 1249432192 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zfoop? fzoop? zoopf? foopz? < 1249432234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bunny < 1249432237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's call it bunny. < 1249432239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or kitten. < 1249432241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1249432245 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vote for kitten < 1249432255 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since im already rather involved with a bunny-associated os (insert glenda.jpg) < 1249432308 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have anything computer related filed though under 'kitten' or kittens mentally < 1249432320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing though < 1249432325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not using lolcats as a splash screen. < 1249432345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vacuously true in a way; I'm not using any splash screen because in 1-2 seconds after it gets control it's in the state you left it in0 < 1249432345 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, that means i dont have to commit physical violence if i ever meet you in person : < 1249432349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d/0$/)/ < 1249432363 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249432722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Things from Napoli are called Neopolitan (in English). I feel they should be called Napoleon. Discuss. < 1249432753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first we need to move Napoli to Corsica. which might be better than next to Vesuvius, anyhow. < 1249433235 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249433364 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249434032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concur. I want Napoleon ice cream. < 1249434101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaped like Napoleon! < 1249434104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actual size) < 1249434132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah. < 1249434176 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1249434319 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: still not that big >_> < 1249434348 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, ego burn to the grave, holmes < 1249434364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Gracenotes for perpetuating the myth -----### < 1249434380 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey. his height was below average < 1249434424 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people perpetuate myths all the time, don't they? For example, that any Eskimo language has 50 words for snow or something? < 1249434444 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myths that are an essential part of our cultural discourse < 1249434454 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't knock the myth. or napolean ice cream. < 1249434461 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*o < 1249434507 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO WASHINGTON NEVER TOLD A LIE < 1249434583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"British propaganda depicted Napoleon as much smaller than average height and this image persists. Confusion about his height also results from the difference between the French pouce and British inch.2.71 and 2.54 cm respectively; he was 1.7 metres (5 ft 7 in) tall, average height for the period." < 1249434609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from infallopedia. < 1249434621 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cultural discourse < 1249434645 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dayum they used some crazy units back then. clearly the metric system is superior! < 1249435150 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435150 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435150 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435150 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435150 0 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1249435151 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :Xiin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :randomity!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435151 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435152 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435152 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435152 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435152 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435152 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435152 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435152 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249435152 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision < 1249435152 0 :ski__!n=md9slj@remote3.student.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :jix!n=jix@p5B26228D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-22-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.244.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-104-109.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :evenant!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :olegfink!n=olegfink@rain.ifmo.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@203-214-111-155.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :oklopil!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :Xiin!n=X@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust781.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :randomity!i=mu@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-116-39.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.249.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@81.49.247.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435152 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249435153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slipping away like that < 1249435179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"RELATED: I'VE INVENTED THE WORST MIXED DRINK EVER." >_< < 1249435276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: actually. < 1249435282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used metric all my life. < 1249435292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recently discovered the joys of the inch. (Shut up that is not an innuendo) < 1249435307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW it is. < 1249435401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: kph vs m/s? < 1249435406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Methinks Randall made an ERROR! < 1249435418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, impossible! < 1249435419 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whar!! < 1249435423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249435425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAVE IT NOW < 1249435428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEFORE HE FIXES IT < 1249435431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE IS *EVERYWHERE* < 1249435450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 5 km/h in m/s < 1249435451 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are several xkcd sockpuppets in this channel currently < 1249435458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, ehird < 1249435467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who momentarily patched one of the comics < 1249435470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to fuck with everyone < 1249435472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats HackEgo for absence -----### < 1249435482 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXATRY AS PRANNED < 1249435504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 km/h = 1.38888889 meters / second < 1249435524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little off < 1249435528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249435529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m = meters < 1249435530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not miles :D < 1249435542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1249435545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 meters a second? < 1249435556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also not km < 1249435557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kph < 1249435562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 25 kph in meters/second < 1249435564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 5 kph in meters/second < 1249435604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 7 * 3.6 < 1249435607 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25.2 < 1249435633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1249435636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kph = km/hour, colloquially < 1249435637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who can run 7 meters a second? < 1249435638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249435644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not kilometers? < 1249435645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249435649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make sense as conversion < 1249435649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249435656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :km = kilometer < 1249435666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you being dense? < 1249435707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249435708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1249435715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, stfu < 1249435745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See The Fine Understatement < 1249435805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learns more about the nasal infix < 1249435820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly nothing to do with piercing. < 1249435846 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meow < 1249436505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249437061 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kilomiles :) < 1249437108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :D < 1249437224 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1249437228 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who told you about the nasal infix? < 1249437232 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone on isharia linked to that < 1249437234 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just today < 1249438037 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249438747 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249439146 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-150.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249439148 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249439487 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249439487 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249439768 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249440141 0 :meanburrito920_!n=john@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249440550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249440893 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249440981 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-150.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249443482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249443527 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249444419 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249444598 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249445069 0 :pikhq__!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249445081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249445463 0 :pikhq__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249445504 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249445523 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249445645 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249445678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : who told you about the nasal infix? < 1249445690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia's Did You Know section < 1249445730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur_: ^ < 1249445753 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1249445755 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it! < 1249445757 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1249445914 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1249446007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249446027 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249446668 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249446719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249446723 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1249451214 0 :meanburrito920_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249451587 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249452878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249452894 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-13.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249453599 0 :quickerfiya!n=exacto@ool-457f92c2.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249455601 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-233.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249455651 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249457013 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1249457074 0 :MigoMipo!n=chatzill@84-217-9-233.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249458405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249458461 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249459199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249459200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249459678 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249459846 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249459942 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. I noticed some behavior in ChatZilla I didn't like. I opened the source jar and modified the JS file with the behavior. I restarted. Now I am content. THAT IS THE POWER OF CHATZILLA (behold) < 1249459975 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249460017 0 :quickerfiya!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249460430 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1249460788 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249462390 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249463967 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249464517 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249464517 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249465405 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what is the power of chatzille, that it's open source? < 1249465605 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-142-060.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249465640 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249466116 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: who can run 7 meters a second? <<< i can < 1249467472 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249468726 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249469220 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249470487 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Apoyaturas < 1249471491 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249471948 0 :Apoyaturas!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gracenotes < 1249472404 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249472494 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249475711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249475967 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249477141 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249478175 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.244.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249478186 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1249478188 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eso people < 1249478202 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to make the taskbar reappear on windows 7? < 1249478211 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just relaunching Explorer doesn't seem to work < 1249478222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restart. < 1249478259 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was my last resort < 1249478263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:12:22 so. I noticed some behavior in ChatZilla I didn't like. I opened the source jar and modified the JS file with the behavior. I restarted. Now I am content. THAT IS THE POWER OF CHATZILLA (behold) < 1249478264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp machine bitch < 1249478266 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I wondered if there was a simpler way < 1249478524 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249478538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, I'm only allowed to be on the computer for an hour. My dad said he's going to ask my "grandmother" how long I was on the computer < 1249478539 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249478684 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-22-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249478770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"grandmother" < 1249479172 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249479229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just wondering what else can get in thru code reviews. you guys... ah, better not to < 1249479229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say anything. such a nice application and now this. there should be more buzz about < 1249479229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it to make less people using chromium, such a insecure bullshit, where everybody can < 1249479229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commit whatever. today it's creepy face, tomorrow it will be malicious code, nice work." < 1249479624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249479678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, the problem is that there are minors playing this game and if that type of chat is allowed, maybe only age 18 and over should be allowed." < 1249479686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.epicmafia.com/forum/thread/1000 < 1249479692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Might need to login to read) < 1249480238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firstly, who the fuck are these imaginary minors who can't stand "filth"? < 1249480245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secondly, what has this got to do with #esoteric? < 1249480274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249480346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh boy "How do you do that? Charge $2 a month payable by credit/debit card." < 1249480350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION claps < 1249480356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lose. < 1249480360 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :belly bum bottom balls < 1249480366 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boobies < 1249480374 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you corrupted yet < 1249480386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cunting fuckshit! That doesn't actually make any sense but it sounds fun. < 1249480398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cunt isn't a verb, and fuck isn't an adjective.) < 1249480444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: But yes, I'm tragically corrupted due to the evils of the interwebs. < 1249480451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249480655 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249480905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION only swore once on EpicMafia, and that was because my scumbuddies gave me a code to use to let them know the role of the person we killed < 1249480915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good for you. < 1249482798 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249482829 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249483513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/05/090531-crapgadgets-01.jpg < 1249483524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ear of a cat usbmomory < 1249485201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As far as Apple is concerned, the Black Hat 2009 hackers conference didn't end soon enough. Having promptly patched the iPhone vulnerability, Cupertino is facing another security hole, this time in its keyboards. A hacker going by the pseudonym of K. Chen has come up with a way, using HIDFirmwareUpdaterTool, to inject malicious code into the keyboard's firmware." < 1249485207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009: The age of keyboard viruses. < 1249486558 0 :Hiato!n=fdulu@dsl-245-20-36.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1249486593 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249486608 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249486809 0 :Hiato!n=fdulu@dsl-245-20-36.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1249486913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklofok < 1249486984 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckshit doesn't require fuck to be an adjective though < 1249487048 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hi < 1249487130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: does though! < 1249487420 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249487631 0 :oklopil!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249487688 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it requires it not to be an adjective < 1249487992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: no < 1249487995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"quickshit" < 1249488390 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"underflow" < 1249488959 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249489156 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm indeed. still, a noun is what you'd normally have there, like you know "cockshit". < 1249489406 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249489409 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1249489444 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:^):^ < 1249489445 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1249489457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: cockshit doesn't make sense though < 1249489460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's a neologism < 1249489466 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if that's the smallest infinite loop < 1249489467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi impomatic, we're talking about the semantics of curses < 1249489471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes. < 1249489524 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... < 1249489615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: it's trivial to prove < 1249489632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way to branch is via ^ < 1249489640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need, at the minimum, ()^ < 1249489647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, what goes inside? < 1249489649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an infinite loop < 1249489658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we know needs a ^ < 1249489662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(()^)^ < 1249489665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what goes inside? < 1249489669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we see that this reduces to, infinitely, < 1249489671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:^):^ < 1249489746 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1249489824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::^) < 1249490064 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((0)(1))(~^:S~:S:*a~:*a*~:^):^ < 1249490065 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :101100111100001111111100000000111111111111111100000000000000001111111111111111111111111111111100000000000000000000000000000000111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 ...too much output! < 1249490158 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-150.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249490167 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((.)(1))(~^:S~:Sa~:*a*~:^):^ < 1249490167 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.11.1111.11111111.1111111111111111.11111111111111111111111111111111.1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111.11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111.1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 ...too much output! < 1249490188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having fun with the un-est of Lambdas? < 1249490376 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Underload, not Unlambda. :P < 1249490441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hush. < 1249490600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've noticed that as I copy data/install programs on my Laptop, the weight of the Laptop increases." < 1249490609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all the bits! < 1249490742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This is a rare error when the overwriting mechanism of the memory banks lead to an overflow of data because it cannot add on and thus super-stack, increasing the weight significantly. While normal weight/file ratio is approximately 0.02 oz/GB, in rare cases such as these, it can go as high as somewhere around 6 oz/GB. < 1249490743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One solution is going to the system32 folder (C:\WINDOWS\system32) and deleting certain unnecessary files, but too much tampering may cause permanent changes to your computer.]] < 1249490958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1249491407 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249491537 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-150.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249491992 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249492098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (*)(~:S( / )S:*~:^):^ < 1249492099 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* / ** / **** / ******** / **************** / ******************************** / **************************************************************** / ******************************************************************************************************************************** / ********************************************* ...too much output! < 1249492108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: I golf you! < 1249492216 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249492260 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't get much shorter than that. < 1249492287 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The exception being the whitespace. < 1249492649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: No whitespace in mine. < 1249492652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's part of the output. < 1249492682 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (1)(~:S(.)S:*~:^):^ < 1249492683 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.11.1111.11111111.1111111111111111.11111111111111111111111111111111.1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111.11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111.1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 ...too much output! < 1249492694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's not the same prorgam. < 1249492950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raptorial < 1249492950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adjective < 1249492950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Like or resembling a raptor. < 1249493000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees proof that the Python documentation people aren't perfect < 1249493096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[But Ninjawords for iPhone suffers one humiliating flaw: it omits all the words deemed “objectionable” by Apple’s App Store reviewers, despite the fact that Ninjawords carries a 17+ rating. < 1249493096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple censored an English dictionary.]] < 1249493099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus fucking christ. < 1249493105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to throw my iPhone out of the window. < 1249493155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do not put the baby in the Dinosaur Comics". Opinions? < 1249493210 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249493215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Needs more funny. < 1249493221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1249493337 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-150.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249493468 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249493468 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249493938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (*)(~:S(*)*( / )S~:^):^ < 1249493938 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* / ** / *** / **** / ***** / ****** / ******* / ******** / ********* / ********** / *********** / ************ / ************* / ************** / *************** / **************** / ***************** / ****************** / ******************* / ******************** / ********************* / ********************** / ***** ...too much output! < 1249493959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1249493964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hacks up a binary counter < 1249493986 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1249494000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrj < 1249494001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1249494117 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249494406 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249494537 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-150.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249495179 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249495242 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249496010 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-155-78-126.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249496211 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249496218 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1249496503 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@129.33.192.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249496519 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The prgmr system I'm on went kablooie last night and it hasn't been fixed yet. < 1249496522 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To this I say WHOOT. < 1249496531 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codu.org is being hosted on my home system right now :P < 1249496535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249496545 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-160-121-67.range86-160.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249496564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Well, I guess it's a good thing codu.org is not absurdly popular? ;P < 1249496572 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lonelydino.com is gettin' there. < 1249496583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has 7 comics. < 1249496589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no way it can be absurdly popular. < 1249496594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249496596 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249496599 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being linked from qwantz.com = instant popular :P < 1249496602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Compared with codu.org. < 1249496609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it was linked from Qwantz. < 1249496612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Like, like, THOUSANDS of hits! < 1249496623 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft@ehird < 1249496623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His point. < 1249496644 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's thousands of people who totally don't want to see "Cannot connect to lonelydino.com" < 1249496647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I'm just an old fart who TRULY KNOWS WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE #1 ON DIGG AND HAVE /B/ NOTICE. < 1249496719 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well I'm wearing a fuchsia shirt with a gold tie. < 1249496721 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO I WIN. < 1249496749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1249496764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can has in-state tuition now. < 1249496764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T3h w00ts. < 1249496783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shit it has hover-over text < 1249496788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rereads them all < 1249496842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: All the hover texts suck and you should eliminate them. < 1249496850 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249497216 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249497295 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249498017 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know about the second hidden text on qwantz.com until recently :( < 1249498055 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1249498098 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Which, the RSS title? < 1249498108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh... < 1249498119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: Windows does not need the .exe extension to execute a file. < 1249498127 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1249498130 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when? < 1249498142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works at least in NT OSes. < 1249498163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, it just cares if it's a valid PE file. < 1249498191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Cygwin could be built without ".exe" files all over the place. < 1249498235 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: not the RSS title :D < 1249498254 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I've missed those too since I don't use the RSS feed < 1249498263 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not the RSS title or the title text, I don't know to what you refer < 1249498293 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Look at the "contact" link in the top row :) < 1249498311 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-8 < 1249498363 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha, what's great is that's actually worded as a message to Ryan. < 1249498447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't they use to all be in the title < 1249498450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with two lines separating them < 1249498747 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249499286 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, looks like my backups worked, and Codu2 is totally working, albeit only temporary until prgmr comes back. I'm getting spam again; hooray? < 1249499394 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249499442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, bye all < 1249499497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249499551 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-16.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249500022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249500739 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.244.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249500864 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249500886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249500899 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.244.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249501066 0 :Xiin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249501115 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249501119 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hi :) < 1249501137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of a coincidence < 1249501147 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kind of", yeah :P < 1249501157 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually always here whenever I'm online < 1249501158 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249501163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i met my neighbor on #proglangdesign, so < 1249501238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on wfg because a guy i know likes to conquer Q'less channels, why are you there? < 1249501265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh #proglangdesign that stupid copy of us < 1249501265 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249501277 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh, so you're one of the evil squatters then < 1249501278 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249501286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wfg? < 1249501291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D < 1249501294 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in #wfg because I'm actually involved in it < 1249501295 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q-less? < 1249501299 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like QuakeNet < 1249501370 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249501372 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249501387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i can probably ask bcz to give you the flags, in care you care < 1249501389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*case < 1249501409 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay for half-conversations. < 1249501411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i need to do something now -> < 1249501505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wfg < 1249501517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1249501524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner what's wf < 1249501525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wfg < 1249501540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wild fire games < 1249501573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds stupid < 1249501674 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249501723 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249501791 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249502330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :splorkodynamics < 1249502433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: am i to understand you don't negotiate with terrorists? < 1249502478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i negotiate with terriers < 1249502495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: anyway how do you "conquer" a channel just cuz it doesn't have a Q < 1249502496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be kinda boring via irc < 1249502503 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I am not currently engaged in a negotiation, no :P < 1249502507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can ask for ops if there are none < 1249502514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's stoopid < 1249502558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i'm just asking if the channel is actually important to you, while bcz probably doesn't give a shit, i do. < 1249502593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: your friend sure sounds like a boring person < 1249502605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what should i do" "i know, i'll conquer quakenet channels!" < 1249502633 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just another kind of trolling < 1249502639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes, that's the general opinion < 1249502641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% of trolling is boring < 1249502663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, he's not boring, least boring guy i know < 1249502690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a fairly bored person though < 1249502695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boioioioioioioioiring < 1249502842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that's what quakenet is for, why use it if you're not going to use it right < 1249502855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quakenet is just a shoddy efnet < 1249502863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :efnet is where the anarchy @ < 1249502910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about efnet < 1249502944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think i've just used it for joining channels like #sex and gathering asl statistics < 1249502955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: efnet's basically entirely anarchy, yeah there are ircops that rule with an iron fist, but that's just part of the game, not any sort of meta rule enforcement < 1249502999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i understood you correctly, that's exactly how qnet works too, if you takeover a channel, it's yours, the ops don't give a shit < 1249503015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sure but efnet's anarchy goes beyond that < 1249503024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1249503024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i don't even know if there are network-wide rules but they sure as hell aren't enforced < 1249503041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because it's just a bunch of servers wantonly connecting to each other and bits being flipped without human regard for just about anything < 1249503044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qnet's quite similar < 1249503047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's younger < 1249503052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shoddy ripoff either way :D < 1249503055 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249503098 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wantonly has been promoted to your word of the month btw < 1249503110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn did i say wantonly beforehand < 1249503129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've used it 3 times so that i've seen, i think < 1249503147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i know because i read it as like "by want-only basis" at first and i was like what < 1249503150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could say that < 1249503151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using it < 1249503153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WANTONLY < 1249503160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHHA < 1249503174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol amirite < 1249503180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249503196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway more watching random stuff -> < 1249503209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but I'm wantonly beforehanding, amirite < 1249503301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like completively < 1249503918 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249503929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s3d1LfjWCI < 1249503930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho shit. < 1249503942 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249503949 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1249504568 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty cool < 1249504606 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he didn't even have to do anything super fancy, i'm a little curious how a* is applied there, i never had thought about that algorithm in terms of say, platforming < 1249504688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evenant: yeah it is cool < 1249504692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking of trying one myself < 1249504697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a semi-pacifist AI could work well < 1249504701 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249504706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. optimise for paths that avoid interacting with monsters < 1249504715 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249504719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure it's possible to make a perfect ai that works on all solvable mario levels < 1249504807 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249504807 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249505284 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is using a* with that any different from using it with another 2d map < 1249505369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it doesn't incorporate moving objects really, but you can easily run a complete search between every frame, so doesn't really matter < 1249505498 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't, i just never thought of it that way < 1249505506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Now, if it incorporated the walk-through-walls glitch, I would be impressed. < 1249505517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't < 1249505531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would be impressed if it wasn't completely mario-specific < 1249505548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a few ROM-hacked Mario levels that require it. < 1249505551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's not the original game < 1249505556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's randomly-generated < 1249505556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Lame. < 1249505561 0 :nooga!n=nooga@86-63-124-134.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1249505562 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249505652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be fun to do something like that, unfortunately i never managed to read the content of the screen in :P < 1249505659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wants it to play via NES emulator. < 1249505710 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249505737 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249505740 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1249505783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you seem to be interested in trivial and boring stuff, and not very interested in interesting stuff < 1249505784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss < 1249505838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What, I ask, makes you think that? < 1249505908 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1249506032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nm, nothing really :D < 1249506069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Very well, þen. Þou art full of ſhit. Diſcuß. < 1249506093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249506171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot explain what my point was < 1249506181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would require too many words < 1249506188 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :łśja < 1249506191 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant no offense :P < 1249506193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nooga < 1249506200 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello thar < 1249506203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't see you there < 1249506215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Words are not scarce. :P < 1249506219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i did, more like didn't notice you there < 1249506286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i just didn't find your ideas for how to enhance that thingie very mathematically interesting; i in no way wanted to imply they should be, it was just a complex unfunny joke. < 1249506335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It's hackerly interesting, not mathematically. < 1249506358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. < 1249506431 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? (too lazy to check the logs) < 1249506469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: nothing, i just said something that doesn't make sense without a long explanation < 1249506481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i haven't completely given < 1249506491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and won't. god i'm annoying to talk to < 1249506500 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249506548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make hackerly values mathematical, maybe < 1249506600 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any new langs? < 1249506694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zilch < 1249506738 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1249507018 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-142-060.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249507840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249508066 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715094852]" < 1249508081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, I see." < 1249508553 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ńkóń < 1249509221 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ńķóń < 1249509240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ńḱóń < 1249509540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nkon < 1249509629 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249509771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249509797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think I'll start my os soon < 1249510388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that mario ai thing is realtime < 1249510390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only have 40ms < 1249510506 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, Mario AI thing eh < 1249510589 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Mario AI thing? < 1249510606 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: let me guess, plan-9 clone written in haskell? < 1249510628 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can read ehird like a book. < 1249510647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Uhh, no. < 1249510650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's written in Voynich script. < 1249510660 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1249510672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga's so close to being funny if only he had a sense of humour < 1249510710 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even try to be funny right now < 1249510750 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249510769 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/Programming-Praxis-Josephus-Circle.aspx?CommentReplies=280209 :D < 1249510803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :piet isn't especially hard, is it? < 1249510836 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but it's awesome < 1249510849 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a beautiful one, too < 1249510868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1249510888 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks pretty, has colors, me likes colors, ugh < 1249510948 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me to solve today's in INTERCAL < 1249511024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I don't think my library has comparisons in yet < 1249511139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascicle < 1249511166 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testicle < 1249511184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was a button to obliterate nooga from the channel. :D < 1249511210 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I refuse to use anything but my own code when I do INTERCAL < 1249511219 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make one easily, ehird < 1249511237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's nice? …Context? < 1249511245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Also, not even syslib.i? That's just stupid. < 1249511246 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249511252 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:23:44] hmm... I don't think my library has comparisons in yet < 1249511254 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:25:39] Fascicle < 1249511263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uh, fascicle was just a random word I said. < 1249511265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that a lot. < 1249511271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249511308 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uh, testicle was just a random word I said... I do that A LOT < 1249511312 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dziwko! < 1249511322 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;> < 1249511343 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249511371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: how could I easily make this obliteration button? < 1249511377 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249511396 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step 1: get +o < 1249511408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn I wish I had secret op rights so I could +o myself now < 1249511412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and say "Done." < 1249511426 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step 2: rewrite limechat to create such button that sends apropriate command to channel < 1249511434 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step 3: ?????? < 1249511440 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step 4: PROFIT! < 1249511442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would editing LimeChat.app do for me? < 1249511501 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :display a button (with caption "obliterate nooga from the channel" if needed) that would send +b for me ? < 1249511512 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249511533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how would I invoke that from my IRC client? < 1249511579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well? < 1249511586 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, just use limechat in that marvelous moment < 1249511595 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modified limechat with button < 1249511598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't use LimeChat. < 1249511682 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't you the one who recommended limechat to me < 1249511686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249511712 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, quite logical < 1249511858 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249511877 0 :nooga!n=nooga@86-63-124-134.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1249511906 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, limechat just crashed < 1249512174 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249512359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzSRVgF501M < 1249512845 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249512845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249513042 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1249513315 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.244.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249513333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:45:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzSRVgF501M < 1249513338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly that's not a hallucinogen < 1249513341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secondly old :P < 1249513360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION first found out about it today, so it < 1249513364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not old to me < 1249513422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting though < 1249513429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the effects only last about 3-5 seconds < 1249513441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nearly trippy enough :) < 1249513472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me, the effect is strong, but yeah, 1:40 for 5 seconds of effect is meh < 1249513487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5-10sec < 1249513526 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, people do that with food. Hours of cooking, for maybe 30min of eating < 1249513541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but 30min of eating is way more enjoyable than 5 seconds of warping < 1249513547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cooking can be fun < 1249513555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't find eating to be enjoyable :/ < 1249513569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then either you eat bad food or have issues < 1249513582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the latter < 1249513582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Sgeo, I've seen better versions of that effect < 1249513583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little weaker, but only take 15-30s < 1249513591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ooh, where? < 1249513599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all over the internet < 1249513613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's uberfamous < 1249513627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1249513627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zecina.blogspot.com/2009/04/warp-illusion.html < 1249513630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using slow motion causes a longer and stronger trip." < 1249513633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googled "warping illusion" on google < 1249513636 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcSUrdipBY8 ) < 1249513640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know if that's true < 1249513657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blogspot one i linked to is more spiky < 1249513658 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249513685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: effects can linger btw < 1249513696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance my computer's UI elements bulged almost imperceptably for seconds after < 1249513705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249513725 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's quite normal since you're using mac < 1249513726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: have you seen that thing where you stare at one image and stare at another which gives it colours, and even five years later the colours are still there without looking at the trigger? < 1249513731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: hur hur hur < 1249513752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um, what? I've seen that thing before, but the effects don't last 5 years < 1249513764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's another thing, then < 1249513768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was specifically deigned and researched < 1249513795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment on that slow video: < 1249513797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[if i look at a shadow its fuck are it could be the acid fuck maybe it not wise to wacth these while high on acid what the fuck am i typein who am i typein to why am i typin]] < 1249513802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think it's the acid not the video. < 1249513829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249513831 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acid is overrated < 1249513910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thing augur told me about, < 1249513921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you put on glasses that make everything upside down, you'll be disoriented at first < 1249513923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a day or two < 1249513926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, everything is fine < 1249513932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if a week or two later you take them off? < 1249513935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything seems upside down. < 1249513945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have to relearn what's the right way up. < 1249513959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol should do that, he's the only one crazy enough < 1249514112 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it only take a day or two to get reoriented? < 1249514123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1249514126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the longer video didn't have longer lasting effects for me :( < 1249514129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who knows what it could fuck up in your brain < 1249514150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet you'd have to relearn left/right from scratch, for instance < 1249514154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not as easy as it sounds... < 1249514174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has had issues with left/right when he was younger < 1249514176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1249514259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: my mother still has to think to remember which is which < 1249514267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's depressing < 1249514375 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://frogger11758.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/left-left-left-right-left/ < 1249514427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I wonder if this is an Aspie trait or simply an idiosyncracy of mine." < 1249514440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, I hate people who ascribe everything to the vague notion of Asperger's syndrome. < 1249514441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hate hate hate. < 1249514454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a word for that guy's condition; it's "can't tell left from right". < 1249514483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hence the wonder, and not "It's because I'm an Aspie" < 1249514515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't care, such association is completely unfounded and just further muddies the definition of the psychological equivalent of a pile of mud < 1249514517 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday reading my own written driving instructions I turned right instead of left, and even reading it multiple times I could have SWORN it was a right arrow. Does that mean I have Asperger's? < 1249514518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1249514522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Yes. < 1249514523 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249514533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being a geek and/or different and/or strange = YOU HAVE ASPERGER'S SYNDROME! < 1249514565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I'm pretty sure that this person was diagnosed with AS < 1249514576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point < 1249514577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249514577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249514577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249514577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249514577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249514579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your head < 1249514603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you weren't talking about Cale in particular >.> < 1249514645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of what I said still applies. < 1249514659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And diagnosing someone with a pile of mud doesn't make it any less mdudy. < 1249514662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :muddy. < 1249514666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHydHfs8mmo "Do not participate in this video several times in a short space of time" < 1249514667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1249514690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell it's a serious warning because it has a cannabis leaf. < 1249514706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol that's recorded from a screen < 1249514707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell < 1249514715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a camera < 1249514719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the table, I ask you < 1249514722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249514760 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$attempt_to_indicate_that_I_get_the_reference_without_being_able_to_come_up_with_a_suitable_reference_myself < 1249514761 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then who was phone? < 1249514787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: dude, that doesn't even fucking fit < 1249514830 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's just a random phrase < 1249514832 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, http://www.creepypasta.com/yeah-so-quit-asking/ < 1249514849 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to speak random phrases sometimes < 1249514865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ahh the first image in the header is the devil's bible < 1249514868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate that image < 1249514872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creeps me out < 1249514970 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1249514976 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :devils bible is fun < 1249514984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1249515063 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, its more like a week of disorientation < 1249515066 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gradually decreasing ofcourse < 1249515077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: when you put on the glasses or after taking them off? < 1249515081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, has this actually been tried? < 1249515086 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both < 1249515088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249515088 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1249515096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by whom? link? any lingering effects at the end? < 1249515111 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont remember by who, and no, no lingering effects < 1249515194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what i want to know is, does your brain actually end up flipping the image for you, so that it appears normal (not that you could really tell), or do you actually get an intuitive sense for the directions? < 1249515211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't imagine feeling my arm going leftwards and associating that with anything other than what i see now as left < 1249515216 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that question does not infact make sense. < 1249515225 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite the obvious sensicality of it. < 1249515242 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: shut up <-- he's afraid of the devil ;D < 1249515249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: no, that image is just creepy < 1249515252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: :P < 1249515385 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world has no inherent up and down. we have gravity here on earth, sure, and your brain correlates sensed direction of gravity with motion in your visual inputs, but the "image" isn't flipped, etc. if you hung yourself upside, in a room that was upside down, the image would be "right side up", but it would FEEL upside down. and eventually, as your brain adjusts to the change in gravity, you would not be able to distingui < 1249515388 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh anything as being different from how it was, i think < 1249515396 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wouldnt "flip" in any sense < 1249515412 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like talking about flipping an image in your computer. not on your SCREEN, but in the computer, in the binary representation. < 1249515415 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary has no up or down < 1249515417 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense. < 1249515443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could call the direction that gravity pulls in the world's "down" < 1249515450 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i said that < 1249515459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i said that we have gravity < 1249515463 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling that down changes nothing < 1249515513 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your experience of the visual stuff aligned in one way or another is the result of how that data correlates with other sensory data, but the sum total of that data has no "down" independent of how the data coheres < 1249515544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1249515551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just upsets me we can't ask these questions < 1249515557 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask them < 1249515563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: "Down" is a direction that only has meaning regarding a frame of reference. That's about it. Whoo. < 1249515564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oklopol should do that, he's the only one crazy enough <<< i've thought about doing that many times, but i don't have the glasses to do it. < 1249515564 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the answer is that there is no answer. :) < 1249515571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and scares me that our minds are so... < 1249515573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goedelian < 1249515578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i've heard it takes a lot more than a few days < 1249515582 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wat < 1249515588 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything it should turn you on! < 1249515590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: as in, we couldn't detect a serious cognitive change from inside that cognition < 1249515600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we could actually < 1249515606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we can't observe those cognitive changes from outside < 1249515610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very Reflections on Trusting Trust < 1249515614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we would observe a difference in how things cohere < 1249515623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly? how would you detect the flip change < 1249515637 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you'd detect it at FIRST by the fact that the image would appear upside down to you < 1249515642 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your brain has to adjust < 1249515642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonono < 1249515645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got amnesia < 1249515650 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the image on your retina is ALREADY upside down. < 1249515651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they wiped your memories of adjusting < 1249515661 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well, in that case, so what? < 1249515674 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your experience of the world before and after is no different < 1249515678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I care about plenty of questions of that sort < 1249515682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. quantum mechanics interpretation < 1249515685 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all thats different is whether your retinas are bigendian or littleendian < 1249515693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: aha, so < 1249515699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the image ISN'T subjectively flipped < 1249515700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to speak < 1249515701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1249515703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cognitive experience we get < 1249515705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is exactly the same < 1249515716 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, sort of < 1249515718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just our mappings being readjusted but not the visuals < 1249515724 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1249515727 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249515731 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the visuals ARE the mappings < 1249515732 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats all there is < 1249515737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue2_light.bmp: PNG image data, 512 x 512, 8-bit/color RGB, non-interlaced <-- someone fails at file extensions :D < 1249515738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1249515740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't feel like that < 1249515741 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1249515744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like we have a bitmap image in front of us < 1249515747 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ofcourse it doesnt < 1249515747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and interpret it cognitively < 1249515758 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because our brain processes the content of the data < 1249515759 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the form < 1249515759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't feel like what i see is my cognitive representation < 1249515781 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, its like the brain has a native jpeg interpreter < 1249515789 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesnt need to render out to a bit map to do facial recognition < 1249515792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh my vision is better quality than jpeg < 1249515804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm just saying that my vision FEELS unprocessed < 1249515805 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, it just learnt to detect faces in the jpeg encoded data < 1249515807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like i act on that < 1249515811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :direct image < 1249515815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which of course is false < 1249515822 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure it does, because you're detecting the semantics, not the encoding < 1249515830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249515833 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you are, in a sense, acting on a direct image < 1249515856 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the periphery has direct images as input < 1249515857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, if you had a button that let you switch between adjusted-to-flip-with-flip and not-adjusted-without < 1249515862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then clicking it would seem to do nothing at all < 1249515874 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the patterns, the relative behaviors, are all still detectable < 1249515878 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thats what your brain cares about < 1249515880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to if the visuals were unprocessed and we acted on them, in which case there would be some sort of visual jolt < 1249515882 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the correlative behavior < 1249515883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everything would seem right < 1249515884 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the literal form < 1249515886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: confirm/deny < 1249515887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the image doesn't flip, but what does magically flip is what it means to move your left or right arm, because you need to adjust those to work with what you see. so to speak. as augur said, not a completely well-defined question < 1249515889 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb dinner < 1249515902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone should just try it out < 1249515917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but you couldn't answer the question even subjectively < 1249515918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without resetting < 1249515923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point you'd have to do it again < 1249515924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reset < 1249515928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible < 1249515931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need both states at once to answer it < 1249515940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm already pretty good at moving based on looking in the mirror < 1249515958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only get practise in elevators, so progress is slow < 1249515988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could buy a mirror. < 1249515989 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird how fast you can flip your left and right < 1249516029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not exactly skill #1 to acquire on my list. < 1249516045 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ingólv < 1249516053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inglowes < 1249516090 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ferflóht < 1249516276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fer like german ver < 1249516288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your mom like finlandic your face < 1249516371 0 :meanburrito920!n=John@unaffiliated/meanburrito920-/x-7432637 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249516378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, it's a burrito. That is mean. < 1249516378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you see that about wrong extension above? < 1249516395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY THE CORRECT TERM IS FIN*NISH* < 1249516404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i hate your ignorance GRRR < 1249516405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no that's the culture < 1249516407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finlandic is the place < 1249516412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What am I supposed to respond? < 1249516414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi meanburrito920. < 1249516421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUHHUH MAN SO ISN'T < 1249516422 0 :meanburrito920!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1249516425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi meanie < 1249516441 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear, i guess what ehird done here is an example of my (alleged) idiocy < 1249516446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249516453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanburrito920: (a) who are you, (b) what brought you here, (c) how many goats did you sacrifice? < 1249516456 0 :meanburrito920!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, are you showing cultural ignorance of finishing? < 1249516470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…xD < 1249516473 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages ago on nooga: sega < 1249516482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my answer. < 1249516528 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look ol' polo ok? oklopol < 1249516545 0 :meanburrito920!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, (a) I am who am (b) i took a scroll down /list lane (c) i sacrificed no goats. however, i did sacrifice many cookies, who died valiantly in my tummy < 1249516551 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a palindrome < 1249516569 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not need to < 1249516585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanburrito920: well it's a good thing you appear to be in programming channels because we do not yet specialise in voodoo. < 1249516596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you came in at a great time, this channel is like this pretty much always. < 1249516614 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DSA < 1249516675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, oklopol's face really looks like that. < 1249516679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i done many palindromes here? < 1249516693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249516709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no on! < 1249516713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!no on!, rather. < 1249516753 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: meanburrito920: (a) who are you, (b) what brought you here, (c) how many goats did you sacrifice? < 1249516760 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanburrito920: ehird, (a) I am who am (b) i took a scroll down /list lane (c) i sacrificed no goats. however, i did sacrifice many cookies, who died valiantly in my tummy < 1249516762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"th" is an annoying little bastard < 1249516764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: hey i copywrit that < 1249516767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it comes to making pals < 1249516771 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably ehird found a new friend) < 1249516772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: htu < 1249516776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helsinki technology university < 1249516784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i have no idea what the fuck you're talking about < 1249516791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nicks, names and acronyms are cheating < 1249516795 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck about talking < 1249516798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanburrito920: http://esolangs.org/ btw < 1249516828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. some palindromers actually use *initials*, so i guess a htu or two might do. < 1249516844 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanburrito920: But 'lane' isn't even in here! < 1249516856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyuk hyuk hyuk. < 1249516903 0 :meanburrito920!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, so is this basically about everyone getting together and writing brainfuck? < 1249516913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1249516914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanburrito920: Not just Brainfuck. < 1249516917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have uhh < 1249516922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some of us are esolang snobs < 1249516924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only nominally. < 1249516924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and brainfuck is kinda old. < 1249516931 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1249516936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanburrito920: but mostly we talk about everything because offtopicness is a virtu < 1249516936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1249516937 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is on codu, codu is down. < 1249516945 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH GregorR-L < 1249516948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, we're guys with a fondness of esolangs that talk about almost everything but esolangs. :P < 1249516954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1249516961 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emphasis on "guys" >_> < 1249516964 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much pretty < 1249516971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, we've had like two girls! < 1249516977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least 3 < 1249516980 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by mistake < 1249516985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi, that weed-smoker mathematician person recently who was here for, like, minutes < 1249516987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i guess one of them was me < 1249516988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(two items that) < 1249516992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: HAH < 1249516996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: So you admit it! < 1249517009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's your word against mine < 1249517020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What, you were once a pre-op or some such? < 1249517042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not that i know of < 1249517051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no I always said it was you < 1249517055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you just admitted it was you :P < 1249517057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "hotidlerchick" < 1249517064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ah. < 1249517070 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :220V on nipples! < 1249517072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've admitted it tons of times, then unadmitted it again < 1249517075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ... That you *know* of? < 1249517085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oklopol can't even remember if he's ever had drugs in his life. < 1249517103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly oklopol lives in a land of memory modification devices. < 1249517103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i have no idea how i was her. < 1249517117 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had, some of them are quite cool < 1249517129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i have a pretty good memory < 1249517131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I've had... Caffeine, alcohol. < 1249517138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't I less-than-creative. < 1249517148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't count caffeine and alcohol as drugs < 1249517165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not alcohol, iirc weed is less dangerous than alcohol < 1249517167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What *do* you count as drugs? < 1249517170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reason simply being that they usually aren't called that. i have had both < 1249517181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... They generally are, actually. < 1249517187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249517187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: anything that gives you a high, except alcohol < 1249517193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not colloquially < 1249517194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in some contexts < 1249517196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so... everything? < 1249517196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249517200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That is a crap definition. < 1249517204 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249517206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1249517214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i hate you people < 1249517220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no. < 1249517228 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249517233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're programmers and mathematicians. What do you expect, anti-pedantry? < 1249517234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes. including alcohol would be better. but it's usually not included. < 1249517235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IME people on weed are fun to talk to < 1249517241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people on alcohol are mostly fools < 1249517268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pedantry about things you can be more creatively pedantic about than just spout the same fucking bullshit year after year < 1249517286 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMHO thc is nice, but i don't do it much, acid is awful, amphetamine is like coffee^200, huh... alcohol is stupid, nicotine is even worse < 1249517295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not referring to you in particular, i just know exactly what's to pedantize about this drug definition thing. < 1249517303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: People with a dosage of alcohol that actually... Does anything? Yeah, that's just painful. < 1249517319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: So, more-or-less saying "That's old and tired. Could we move on?"? < 1249517322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i will count water as a drug in situations where someone manages to get a high off of it. < 1249517328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alcohol always intoxicates but yeah a beer or two doesn't affect most people < 1249517330 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249517341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You know what I meant. ;) < 1249517344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: something like that. < 1249517352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even see a point to drinking alcoholic drinks if you're not trying to get drunk tbh < 1249517360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess some people might think they like the taste < 1249517367 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: erm < 1249517378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like interesting tastes < 1249517382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that basically means i like bad tastes < 1249517385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people actually do enjoy the taste. < 1249517389 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: have you tried at least once? < 1249517398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i think there's an element of cultural conditioning tbh < 1249517399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would love alcoholfree vodka < 1249517407 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck < 1249517407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good things happen around alcohol → alcohol is good < 1249517411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ alcohol tastes good < 1249517416 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be so hc < 1249517423 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good (expensive) vodka has no taste and smell < 1249517430 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's cool < 1249517432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249517435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expensive water that makes you stupid < 1249517436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm talking about the crappy ones that taste like death < 1249517438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There's an element of cultural conditioning in most aesthetic preferences. < 1249517438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kills your cognitive functions < 1249517439 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vodka with taste is awful < 1249517440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds AWESOME < 1249517450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: true. alcoholic drinks mostly taste like shit though :P < 1249517456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(am I a nerd for calling "flavor" an aesthetic preference?) < 1249517465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What have you tried? < 1249517472 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wait untill your gf will break up with you < 1249517474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much, i don't even recall much < 1249517481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have any inclination < 1249517488 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, excuse me, i doubt you'll ever find oen < 1249517491 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one < 1249517499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was one helluva zinger < 1249517502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. < 1249517515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Are you really such a pathetic person that the only way you can solve emotional problems is by killing your higher brain functions? < 1249517531 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it's necessary < 1249517539 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :girls are a lot easier to pick up while sober < 1249517542 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sometimes* < 1249517545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thought I was pathetic. < 1249517545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a convincing argument nooga. < 1249517547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting them drunk that matters < 1249517559 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: correct < 1249517562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You need to get shitfaced when your gf breaks up with you Pathetic You have to do it sometimes!! < 1249517594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'll go do some sleeping now, you stop picking on nooga, mean mean boys < 1249517595 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok! < 1249517596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1249517642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga first. < 1249517654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He *really* needs to stop picking on himself. It's just pathetic. < 1249517654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249517665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: so what's your logic for me never getting a girlfriend, i'm curious < 1249517674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can think of several hilariously stupid possible answers < 1249517690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uncountably infinitely many unstupid ones, but I wouldn't expect you to hit one :P < 1249517692 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd pick one of that answers < 1249517704 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stupid ones) < 1249517757 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. 'night < 1249517856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You are to die in half an hour. < 1249517866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: err, what? < 1249517888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ? < 1249517904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I refuse to specify in which reference frame that amount of time is accurate. < 1249517915 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you find my death note :( < 1249517916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is unlikely that it is yours. < 1249517919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and, uh, what prompted this < 1249517932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Logic for you never getting a girlfriend. < 1249517936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249517961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Just borrowing it; I've got a few world leaders to deal with. < 1249518018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing my luck i'll end up betting tons of money that i'll have a girlfriend one day to someone and then realise i'm gay straight after < 1249518028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("gay straight" ← unintentional) < 1249518071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just get a gf for the money < 1249518121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it need to be real love like in the movie < 1249518125 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249518129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1249518148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wall < 1249518265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm right -> < 1249518420 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm left <- < 1249518553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :***Using Yahoo Mail? If this message appears empty, try forwarding it to a non-Yahoo mail account. Your answer is there..we promise!*** < 1249518558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can cause that? < 1249518797 0 :meanburrito920!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um spam? < 1249518877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: practicing? :D < 1249518886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*practising < 1249518907 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249519049 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was just about to turn left -> < 1249519551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanburrito920, it wasn't spam < 1249519574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Yahoo thinks it's spam? < 1249519927 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249520025 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1249520032 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249520087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1249520119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morn morn < 1249520191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evening. < 1249520205 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$TIME_OF_DAY_USED_AS_GREETING < 1249520213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butts < 1249520228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trees of walt < 1249520243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches the earthrise < 1249520315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump the shark, jump the shark, jump the hobo, hobo shark < 1249520415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have you know this shark is no hobo, it owns a considerable amount of ocean real estate. you just happen to be in the middle of its hunting ground, in fact. < 1249520434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yummy delicious seafaring real estate agents < 1249520451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: What's a real estate agent in second life? ? < 1249520451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: FAKE ESTATE!! < 1249520482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant, mr. hird < 1249520495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A HURD OF HURDS < 1249520500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm . < 1249520542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the god of hurds, hirds and hordes < 1249520546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mr Hird, how does it feel to be referred to in a mutually recursive acronym? < 1249520560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spit on Richard Stallman and his thousand microkernel penises. < 1249520561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(namely, a Hird of Unix Replacing Daemons) < 1249520566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hoards < 1249520755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1249521571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal, http://www.fullmoon.nu/Resurrection/PrimarySpecies.html < 1249521589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249521867 0 :meanburrito920!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249521926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1249522078 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249522217 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249522409 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249522409 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249522887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the future's gonna be cool. < 1249522902 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249523325 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249523354 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249523354 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249523533 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-116-39.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249523533 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249523536 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249523541 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1249523541 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1249523584 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249524145 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249524152 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249524237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249524804 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249524817 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249525955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD DAMMIT INTERNET IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR YOU TO ACTUALLY SEND ALL OF MY PACKETS THROUGH‽‽‽ < 1249525963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcp has error correction for a reason < 1249525983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM NOT EVEN ASKING FOR 100 MBITS/SEC, IM ONLY ASKING FOR YOU TO STOP DROPPING CONNECTIONS ENTIRELY < 1249525998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MOTHERFUCKING SMOKE SIGNAL NETWORK WOULD BE BETTER < 1249526019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have been unable to use HTTP for nearly 4 hours now. < 1249526032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1249526033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only retain a connection to *some* IRC networks. < 1249526041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can't log into IM. < 1249526117 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would rather have 800 baud over this shit. At least 800 baud gets your connections through. < 1249526156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249526272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: have you called them? < 1249526276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249526803 0 :upyr[ema`!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249526811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't know how to contact them. Satellite Internet; their phone number is not in the phone book. < 1249526824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd look it up online, but I DONT HAVE TCP. < 1249526838 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1249526868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it would be a bad idea for me to be on the phone. < 1249526877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would start with death threats and go from there. < 1249526899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO THE FUCK RUNS AN ISP THAT CANT EVEN GET TCP THROUGH‽ < 1249526974 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever runs your ISP? < 1249527002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go dropkick the modem. < 1249527007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe the satellite dish after that. < 1249527031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"WHO RUNS AN ISP THAT WONT LET TCP GO THROUGH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?:!?!?A" < 1249527295 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249527384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any luck? < 1249527414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not particularly. < 1249527433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inexplicably, the only host I can reliably connect to is Freenode. < 1249527446 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249527544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a plot < 1249527569 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously to advance, you need to contact your ISP < 1249527572 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid linear games :{ < 1249527732 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249528752 0 :upyr[ema`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249529237 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I discovered today that you can make ties on zazzle.com < 1249529243 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I made a tie of ECA rule 110 < 1249529251 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're $30/ea :( < 1249529302 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can get ten ties for that price >_> < 1249529490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would be a tie of a cellular automaton. < 1249529634 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nose! < 1249529638 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it's so sweetsauce < 1249529648 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also made one of rule 30) < 1249529797 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also mid deciding whether to become a shirt-and-tie guy :P < 1249529807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahah. < 1249529818 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is I have a bunch of awesome T-Shirts, which would be utterly useless in that case. < 1249529832 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my T-Shirts are all white or black, and my button-up shirts are more colorful. < 1249529839 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As are my ties) < 1249529881 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249529901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest that you wear T-shirts whenever possible. < 1249529907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do not, then you will have grown up. < 1249529916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as we all know, that is a sad, sad thing. < 1249529917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249529927 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, I'm in CS. < 1249529931 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody wears T-Shirts. < 1249529939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1249529940 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I don't want to just wear T-shirts any more. < 1249529955 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wearing a shirt and tie is weirdsauce for somebody in CS research :P < 1249529973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if you can push the casual bounds even further and don't wear shirts? :P < 1249529975 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it's not grown up if it's a fuchsia shirt with a gold tie ^^ < 1249529994 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, my flabby torso is totally for public viewing :P < 1249530002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see? < 1249531081 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zazzle.com/rule_110_tie-151701718082685707 < 1249531762 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249533513 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249533847 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats anugly tie. < 1249533847 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only because of the color. < 1249533847 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were dark grey and black that'd be different. < 1249533850 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'd wear one. if i have a need for ties. < 1249533910 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was dark grey and black I sure as hell wouldn't wear one. < 1249533917 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will go with any of my fuchsia shirts. < 1249533923 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1249533925 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1249533932 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of fuschia? < 1249533937 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a nice pattern? < 1249533937 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, lesse ... < 1249533941 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just flat? < 1249533947 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, my shirts are mostly solid colors. < 1249533953 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1249533957 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have four fuchsia shirts, so "it" is not very specific :P < 1249533963 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason fuchsia shirts at goodwill always fit me. < 1249533972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I appreciate your lack of taste. < 1249533977 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1249533986 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he lacks your appreciation of taste! < 1249534005 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a lime green shirt and bright red tie I'll be wearing to the IBM "picnic" :P < 1249534019 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you work for ibm ey? < 1249534020 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249534022 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereabouts? < 1249534025 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new york? < 1249534034 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only temporarily, and in New Yawk, yea. < 1249534041 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on loan from Purdue. < 1249534144 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :white plains, is it? < 1249534155 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1249534160 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1249534185 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, Westchester County, as far as I understand White Plains is one town/village/something in Westchester County, but the IBM is in fact in Hawthorne? Something like that. < 1249534196 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1249534199 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zazzle.com/rule_30_tie-151111911076843021 // is this rule-30 color scheme more to your liking? It's more ... "subtle"? :P < 1249534362 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor i hate you so much. < 1249534371 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1249534374 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you burn to death. < 1249534404 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made this one first, I think it should go with my purple shirt. Or maybe the pink one, but that's a fairly bright pink and this is more of a dark pink. < 1249534432 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My means of dressing myself is basically "if it goes together, don't wear it" < 1249534440 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go fuck yourself asshole. JUST GO FUCK YOURSELF. :| < 1249534464 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1249534492 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur is just jealous of my wonderful flamboyancy :P < 1249534518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if by flamboyancy you mean colors so bright you literally look like a burning piece of metal < 1249534519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then no. < 1249534570 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1249534578 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go to goodwill and buy ALL THE BRIGHTEST STUFF I CAN FIND. < 1249534579 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for you. < 1249534587 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do that < 1249534589 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill laugh < 1249534594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're wearing clothes from goodwill < 1249534597 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and look ridiculous. < 1249534624 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, Mr. Snobbipants thinks I'm tacky. < 1249534632 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not tacky < 1249534633 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridiculous. < 1249534640 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, Mr. Snobbipants thinks I'm ridiculous. < 1249534649 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snobbypants* < 1249534656 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from the Dutch. < 1249534685 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its not. < 1249534692 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, as "ridiculous" is probably roughly item #3 on "properties Gregor attempts to imbue in his style and mannerisms", I'm going to go with, "super!" < 1249534701 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1249534702 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god. < 1249534703 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1249534705 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1249534707 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodwill. < 1249534724 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the "Mr. SnobbIIIIIIpants" part < 1249534732 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh, I'm too good to shop at Goodwill. < 1249534740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I would mock you for wearing a shirt and tie. < 1249534771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, you carry a hackerly form of disregard for normal conventions with it, so I cannot bring myself to do so. < 1249534846 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But augur's "mockery" is drizzled with a puree of lukewarm lamesauce, so I'm left with NO MOCKERY AT ALL! < 1249534872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clothing from Goodwill is lame or something? < 1249534879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my trenchcoat is the antilame! < 1249534881 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, Idonno *shrugs* < 1249534888 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trenchcoats are different, pikhq < 1249534890 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I have a Goodwill trenchcoat too :P < 1249534893 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are cooler when you get them from other people < 1249534895 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially dead people < 1249534904 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normal clothing? no. < 1249534905 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew. < 1249534923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: My roommates and I all bought trenchcoats last year. For 'tis awesome. < 1249534940 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not only do they not wash them, but they grind the ashes of the dead into oil and rub it all over the clothes. < 1249534966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive. < 1249534978 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you'd think it'd be too expensive, but apparently not? < 1249535115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonprofits. < 1249536042 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could I ... put the spinners optical illusion on a tie ...??? < 1249536047 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the single worst idea ever? (yes) < 1249536155 0 :augur_!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249536198 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249536475 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur_: http://www.zazzle.com/classy_rule_110_tie-151952160559470088 howzat < 1249537862 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249537902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249538585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, US politics needs fixed. < 1249538622 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249538626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US would have been great if it were under the rule of Norton I, Emperor of the United States, Protector of Mexico. < 1249539228 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249541066 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249541590 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-1.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249542254 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-124-1.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249542697 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249542714 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-168-223.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1249542953 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249542991 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1249545131 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249545136 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249545216 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-8.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249545599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249545600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249545723 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-233.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249545757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249545772 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249546881 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249547318 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@77.40.165.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249547761 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@77.40.165.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249547777 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249547795 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1249547899 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249547915 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249550002 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1249550041 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249550246 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249550326 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249550783 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249551856 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249553156 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Easy as 3.14159265358979323846..." < 1249553344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Hmm left <- <<< xxxxxxxxxxD < 1249553506 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249553656 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249553663 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249553727 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1249554125 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249554721 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249556712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fullmoon.nu/Resurrection/PrimarySpecies.html <<< this is totally reason enough to commit suicide < 1249558108 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249558395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what is that? < 1249558410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION read a bit and it seems like average sci-fi so far. < 1249558465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying it's particularly good scifi, i'm saying what i said. < 1249558487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i could be saying it's particularly good scifi, but that would be a secondary point, < 1249558489 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1249558493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this is totally reason enough to commit suicide" sounds like it is *VERY* bad < 1249558559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249558560 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the contrary! < 1249558625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the ideas in it, or maybe more the way they were depicted, that made me say that < 1249558642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249559764 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1249560285 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249560455 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-22-245.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249560739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liked http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal as well < 1249560746 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably read more scifi < 1249560784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading the first now < 1249560793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/now/still/ < 1249560808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change for rating: average -> above average, possibly even "rather good" < 1249560886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long is your scale? < 1249560895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what do you mean? < 1249560905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what's the top of the scale < 1249560921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :measured in english, and in books < 1249560922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm. "excellent" possibly is at the top < 1249560948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for books: haven't found one yet. HHGTG gets close, very close indeed. :) < 1249560976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should read it eventually, it's just it seems more fi than it is sci < 1249560983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean from what i've heard < 1249560997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i'm mostly interested in the philosophical ideas in the articles < 1249561001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well that is true, and it is humoristic (sp?) < 1249561026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's sp exactly < 1249561059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humoristic is a word, although humorous might fit better there < 1249561100 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to do the shoppe < 1249561102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1249561106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sp?) = (spelling?) < 1249561127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right! < 1249561129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when I use it < 1249561133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249561142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i know what it means, never managed to reverse-engineer it < 1249561151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1249561171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because you're the only one who uses it, i don't really know < 1249561178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the shoppe -> < 1249561182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I picked it up from someone else < 1249561183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :years ago < 1249561187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on another irc network < 1249563675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something is broken... I get a single line of text when visiting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality : "Override this function." However... refreshing the page fixed it. How strange.... < 1249564042 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249564178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1249564313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sjallabais < 1249564327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit? < 1249564415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just the most incomprehensible greeting i could think of < 1249564447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _looks_ like it should be a norwegian transliteration of something, probably french. i don't know what though... < 1249564463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't bajs crap for swedish < 1249564467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc btw < 1249564490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or danish < 1249564500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not norwegian though (would be "bæsj") < 1249564515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you pronounce sj < 1249564579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like english sh < 1249564595 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249564753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sjallabais somehow means "party", but is also used as a greeting... < 1249564784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"party" is a greeting. < 1249564795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look < 1249564797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249564798 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249564802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!111111 < 1249564816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so < 1249564834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well aren't you antisceptical < 1249564884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm google throws up "trøndersk" dialect lists with it, so it may be a bit local < 1249564889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249565035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh it may be spreading. mwuahaha! < 1249565088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i will definitely start saying sjallabais whenever i don't believe something < 1249565196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION utterly fails at finding an etymology for it < 1249565254 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.244.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249565297 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249565327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: poor serron. but then, he probably deserves it. < 1249565339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249565348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: iwc < 1249565357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party, ehird!! < 1249565359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you guys keep it to #iwc < 1249565363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: omg party \o/ < 1249565377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not in #iwc, or aware of its existence < 1249565384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor I < 1249565399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nor < 1249565414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:38:21 I suggest that you wear T-shirts whenever possible. < 1249565414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:38:27 If you do not, then you will have grown up. < 1249565414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:38:36 And as we all know, that is a sad, sad thing. < 1249565414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if acting childish actually slows that crippling ailment we refer to as aging < 1249565445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: only if you also feel childish inside < 1249565446 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peter pan did it < 1249565461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that was implied < 1249565470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ties are stupid < 1249565478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all clothes are stupid < 1249565479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't keep you warm, therefore useless item of clothing < 1249565489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: easiest way to keep warm tho < 1249565492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are just pretending, it doesn't work. in fact it will only speed things up, as you start worrying if people are catching on < 1249565511 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's easier to stay inside < 1249565539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i'll be drastically different when I'm 18 < 1249565544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 20 < 1249565570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stopped totally changing every few years when I was 12 < 1249565572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then when you get 21... *BAM* average size ego < 1249565574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess that means I'm not learning anything < 1249565607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stopped changing at like 12 too, then started changing rapidly a few years ago < 1249565609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but I *am* the most important thing in the universe < 1249565614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the universe = my universe < 1249565617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relativity says so < 1249565626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like when i talk about where things are, how fast they're moving etc < 1249565640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the viewpoint of my universe (again, colloquially, "the universe"), there is nothing more important than me < 1249565645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I'm the only thing keeping it extant < 1249565726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have a lime green shirt and bright red tie I'll be wearing to the IBM "picnic" :P < 1249565743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo ibm < 1249565749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: did you invent that color matcher just to make sure your clothes _never_ match? :D < 1249565752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: poor serron. but then, he probably deserves it. <-- indeed < 1249565894 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that serron is one annoying little bitch < 1249565912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite so good chap < 1249565921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:27:55 augur_: http://www.zazzle.com/classy_rule_110_tie-151952160559470088 howzat < 1249565928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wow! A black tie! < 1249565969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:05:12 http://www.fullmoon.nu/Resurrection/PrimarySpecies.html <<< this is totally reason enough to commit suicide < 1249565970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you decrease your chances of it < 1249565976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 21:27:55 augur_: http://www.zazzle.com/classy_rule_110_tie-151952160559470088 howzat <-- "no minimum order"? Right, *orders -2* < 1249565993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a natural number. < 1249566006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't accept "i", either. Or 3.4. < 1249566010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't make the condition false. < 1249566024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it didn't say it needed to be a natural number. Thought a real integer was enogh < 1249566026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough* < 1249566051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you get R? < 1249566053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, jokes based on intentional, impossible-to-not-be-intentional, trivial misunderstandings. < 1249566056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly the cream of the crap. < 1249566067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N or R+ are usually implied for products < 1249566068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a general idea of how selling goods works < 1249566080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 isn't an option < 1249566080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a tie, i'd assume N < 1249566085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that always deletes it from your cart < 1249566086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not R+ < 1249566089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be awesome to buy -2 though < 1249566091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and negatives aren't an option < 1249566100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you clearly can't buy part of a tie < 1249566102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an imaginary tie < 1249566104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i conclude natural < 1249566105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1249566121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or an imaginary tie <-- true. those are priceless < 1249566134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they're just imaginary. < 1249566151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1249566155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humoristic, now that's a crappy word < 1249566168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humoristicnessily < 1249566171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but then clearly 1 _is_ the minimum order. these philistines don't understand well-ordering! < 1249566171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fairly sure it's a well-defined word < 1249566195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can prolly make arbitrary long words in english with meaning < 1249566215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. clearly they are saying the set of possible amounts to order does not have a smallest object < 1249566225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you tricked me oklopol, it wasn't actually a party < 1249566234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lol < 1249566258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means it can either be infinitely small, or supremum doesn't exist < 1249566258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, exactly! < 1249566293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because N and R+ are the two usual possibilities, i'd just assume that means "you can buy only part of a tie" < 1249566297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: itym infimum? < 1249566305 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes < 1249566330 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not very good with associating terms with their meanings < 1249566360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess Q+ might make more sense < 1249566380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a scalawag < 1249566382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Q+ = Q+\{0} or what's the usual definition? < 1249566426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er what? < 1249566436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean of course that's not the definition, i'm asking whether it contains 0 < 1249566451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't bet on it < 1249566452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a property of Q+ with its usual definition < 1249566470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you mean Q+ == Q+\{0} of course < 1249566480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i don't < 1249566501 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only primitive unlanguages need a distinction between == and = < 1249566542 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: so what's that 110 computing huh? < 1249566587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: although i guess you are right in that in this case the unlinguistic mix of english and math would've benefitted from it < 1249566617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kinda expected you to deny there's a difference < 1249566729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say the only crucial difference is in binding of left argument < 1249566752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in = it's usually a name, instead of the object it already refers to < 1249566772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's binding vs structural comparison < 1249566808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That being said, as "ridiculous" is probably roughly item #3 on "properties Gregor attempts to imbue in his style and mannerisms", I'm going to go with, "super!" < 1249566811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:58:21 oh. < 1249566815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck < 1249566825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, except binding as an operation is only relevant in unlanguages, there are better ways to do it < 1249566847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he wants to look ridiculous? < 1249566867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: now i just have to ask what #1 and #2 are... < 1249566903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why what the heck < 1249566905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that = binds isn't a crucial difference, the fact that it creates a new object referred to as whatever is on the left is. the actual binding is just an assertion with the same semantics as == has < 1249566922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: er that was for my miscopying < 1249566924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, but < 1249566937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most things can't be both assertions and predicates in languages < 1249566944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is often not a perfect mapping < 1249566944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1249566957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assert X = an object whose equality checker always returns false < 1249566960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask X = X < 1249566962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops! < 1249567034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, =, as an equivalence check, is inconsistent if it doesn't have the properties of an equivalence relation < 1249567057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's your proposal, don't allow overriding equality? < 1249567089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not exactly talking about practical programming :D < 1249567113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249567122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it can be for non-practical things too! < 1249567127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, like, self-caching data structures < 1249567332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think something is broken... I get a single line of text when visiting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality : "Override this function." However... refreshing the page fixed it. How strange.... <-- it's just our simulation having the occasional problem with meta-stuff. nothing to worry about. < 1249567374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equality should not be overridden for the actual objects, it should be about checking equality. but you often need to check if they have the same equivalence class, and a nice practical solution, when there's an obvious equivalence class, is to make equality check whether the objects have the same class. < 1249567381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Matrix :D < 1249567408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess my opinion is equality should be overridable < 1249567419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only as a practical unsolution < 1249567440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matrix! < 1249567447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another well-known greeting < 1249567472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be well-known in a different simulation than ours < 1249567492 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sjallabais < 1249567568 0 :ineiros_!n=ineiros@pc217.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249567573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably go make a food < 1249567579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party, ineiros! < 1249567634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KERNELS, YAY KERNELS < 1249567637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KER KER KER KER KERNELS < 1249567644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERNELS < 1249567648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET'S ALL PROGRAM KERNELS < 1249567654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,_o < 1249567656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $// < 1249567948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: smalltalk80 is awesome isn't it < 1249568007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway < 1249568014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :losethos guy has finally gone totally off the deepend < 1249568028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Free 64-bit Operating System Release: LoseThos V5.11 < 1249568033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wouldn't it be simpler to stab your eyes out with a screw driver? < 1249568042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't lust. It is you who needs to do that, you perverted porn addict. < 1249568042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 27 19 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 20 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into Gehenna. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better f < 1249568058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into Gehenna. < 1249568071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1249568077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he takes to insulting his audience directly < 1249568080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The LoseThos operating system is the answer! It's 64-bit and super simple. You young folk don't like it, I know. You don't understand... anything :-) http://www.losethos.com < 1249568092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Has graphics -- 640x480 16 color < 1249568092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Has HD Audio < 1249568093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You don't understand, obviously, punk. < 1249568093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'd like to seen gen Y get to the moon. < 1249568093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I worked on Ticketmaster's proprietary VAX operating system. Look at Obama's attempt at cash for clunkers. Look at the Chinese Olympics ticketing crash. < 1249568101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally, < 1249568102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/97w0g/cnn_refuses_to_air_this_ad/c0bqm0h < 1249568107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnashed their thanksgivings! < 1249568133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the post is about healthcare. < 1249568140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not coveting/adultery. < 1249568725 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since questions livest cares! < 1249568751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary how well it answers the question < 1249568763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally man < 1249568775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if he'll go on a killing spree < 1249568780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get the impression he's too cazy to < 1249568788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably looks shiftily and gibbers when outside < 1249568880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay wow < 1249568886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that infinite mario ai thing < 1249568893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlkMs4ZHHr8 < 1249568900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually DECIDED to jump into oblivion < 1249568905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do two precise jumps to get out again < 1249568908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to avoid some enemies < 1249568911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too fucking hardcore < 1249569019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna write my own except it aims for max score < 1249569022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of just "survival" < 1249569022 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-160-121-67.range86-160.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249569077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party, Asztal! < 1249569096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would love to make a general purpose gamer ai < 1249569098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1249569108 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION parties < 1249569108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: minimax is probably the closest principle to that < 1249569122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works in basically any competitive game < 1249569123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't mind if it sucked ass, as long as it at least somewhat understood what the keys do < 1249569125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's minimax < 1249569129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err the algorithm? < 1249569141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minimax (sometimes minmax) is a decision rule used in decision theory, game theory, statistics and philosophy for minimizing the maximum possible loss. Alternatively, it can be thought of as maximizing the minimum gain (maximin). Originally formulated for two-player zero-sum game theory, covering both the cases where players take alternate moves and those where they make simultaneous moves. It has also been extended to more complex games and to general deci < 1249569156 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes, naturally i know what the algorithm is < 1249569156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sion making in the presence of uncertainty. < 1249569173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really get more generic than that though < 1249569182 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re: kernels. Babble generator says: "kernels are specific nodes or the liver , and the two - party case , we see a picture , if you will ?" < 1249569205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: not nearly as good as the one, the only, LOSETHOS GOD COMMUNICATION SYSTEM! < 1249569253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC-based language model just says "kernels are dumb." < 1249569271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they are < 1249569286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/wiki/no-kernel.html < 1249569758 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249569771 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aug 06 08:35:49 GregorR: did you invent that color matcher just to make sure your clothes _never_ match? :D < 1249569774 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was part of the reason, yes. < 1249569799 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aug 06 08:38:50 Wow! A black tie! < 1249569801 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NOSE RITE < 1249569813 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aug 06 08:49:06 GregorR: so what's that 110 computing huh? < 1249569816 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twas just random input < 1249569833 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aug 06 08:53:30 That being said, as "ridiculous" is probably roughly item #3 on "properties Gregor attempts to imbue in his style and mannerisms", I'm going to go with, "super!" \ Aug 06 08:54:28 GregorR: now i just have to ask what #1 and #2 are... < 1249569843 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably "weird" and "flamboyant" < 1249569862 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249569890 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1249569892 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just happened < 1249569901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1249569909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a run-by logreading < 1249569946 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and responding < 1249569957 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also has like < 1249569968 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone used a rule 110 to actually compute any actual problems yet < 1249569972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a culture of blocked logreading/responding < 1249569977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: no, it's useless. < 1249569990 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see my apologies, i will go and ask on < 1249569992 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY WAIT < 1249570007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: the computations are horribly inefficient < 1249570012 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "actual", I of course mean esolang-level actual < 1249570015 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like such as < 1249570018 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is 2 + 2 < 1249570027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm sure someone's probably done it < 1249570036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be hard to compile BCT < 1249570058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was designed for cyclic tag so... < 1249570408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wuzzat supposed to mean < 1249570454 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if anyone ever excited it into a sevenfold glio < 1249570488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the rule 110 universality proof used a tag system < 1249570495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, awesome < 1249570506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we just need to write a real program in BCT :P < 1249570532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL WE ALREADY KNOW HOW TO WRITE ONE IN B AND C SO SHOULD BE EASY < 1249570552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and T is a dialect of Scheme! < 1249570598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how convenient... maybe a little too convenient though. < 1249570625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: int main(void) { extrn cons; auto a; a=(cons 1 2); return 0; } < 1249570628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT. < 1249570704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what bit is B in there < 1249570718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extrn cons; auto a; < 1249570722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249570724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249570733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind read it as "extern" not "extrn" < 1249570868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mind is trying too hard to be helpfl < 1249571148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :D < 1249571160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that had the wrong shape though < 1249571165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean < 1249571188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see nothng < 1249571227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in: IxIpII vs IxIpIxI where < 1249571232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm actually blind < 1249571238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where* the letters represent the overall *shape* < 1249571241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :betcha didn't notice :) < 1249571265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iki piki < 1249571271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with extern/extrn the only difference is the length of the last "x-height" segment < 1249571288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, blind typography enthusiast :D < 1249571290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it comes to overall shape < 1249571308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what has he/she/it got to do with this? < 1249571329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually don't know Iki Piki's gender. Not sure if the question makes sense at all... < 1249571350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:07] AnMaster: as in: IxIpII vs IxIpIxI where < 1249571363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I hit enter too early yes < 1249571367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see next line I said < 1249571382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see what you mean < 1249571388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposed to be similar < 1249571402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :male, says irregularwebcomic.wikia < 1249571402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iki Piki is a jack-of-all-trades. Well, some. Like diplomacy, and demolitions. He sees no contradiction in these professions. He also has a passing knowledge of xenobiology, law, and nuclear physics. If you need dubious advice on any of these subjects, Iki's your man! He prefers plastic explosive for demolition purposes, and chews gum. He hardly ever gets these confused. < 1249571402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iwc.net < 1249571419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS A irregularwebcomic.wikia ‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽ < 1249571445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[AnMaster has an aneurysm] < 1249571452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the cast page uses "He" for him. also, "If you need dubious advice on any of these subjects, Iki's your man!" < 1249571467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah, forgot that < 1249571467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1249571486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need dubious advice on any of these subjects, she's your man! < 1249571515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is DMM's sf roleplaying setting which he comes from ... < 1249571524 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249571583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes I know about the source. What about it? < 1249571601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on dangermouse.net somewhere < 1249571615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well it probably has more about his species < 1249571655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1249571660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant... never mind < 1249571757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah i have an urge to write forth but no application for it < 1249571761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dangermouse.net/gurps/amber/sjgaliens.html < 1249571830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1249571833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pachekki are ambisexual, switching between exclusively female and male roles at random every few days." < 1249571851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the FAQ changes every few days < 1249571948 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@129.33.192.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249571952 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aug 06 09:57:05 oklopol: int main(void) { extrn cons; auto a; a=(cons 1 2); return 0; } < 1249571952 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-8 < 1249571966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: stop that bouncing! < 1249571979 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just bounced in a car from one locality to another :P < 1249571984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249571992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: get mobile interwebs < 1249572007 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was driving X_X < 1249572012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1249572022 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And using the intarwebs while driving = not generally considered a good idea < 1249572028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1249572044 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas wearing Gregor's super-awesome rule 110 tie = BEST IDEA EVARS < 1249572073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy it for me and I will < 1249572108 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249572171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Whereas wearing Gregor's super-awesome rule 110 tie = BEST IDEA EVARS <-- picture < 1249572195 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zazzle.com/rule_110_tie-151701718082685707 < 1249572216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249572218 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1249572266 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah, much more positive responses today :P < 1249572275 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zazzle.com/rule_30_tie-151111911076843021 // I have rule 30 too! X-P < 1249572306 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are the colours so awful < 1249572315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because gregor has terrible fashion sense! < 1249572329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: make a transparent tie < 1249572332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd so fucking buy a transparent tie < 1249572334 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR < 1249572340 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a 2,3 machine < 1249572341 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1249572344 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you did it in like < 1249572346 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grey and blue < 1249572350 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dark grey and light grey < 1249572351 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zazzle.com/classy_rule_110_tie-151952160559470088 // YOU GUYS ARE LAME < 1249572357 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd look like a real tie, not a clown tie < 1249572363 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1249572364 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would never buy a tie that wasn't bright and gaudy :P < 1249572365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: But that's just a black tie. < 1249572374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it'd print as the same colour. < 1249572379 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Nah < 1249572385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.zazzle.com/classy_rule_110_tie-151952160559470088 // YOU GUYS ARE LAME <-- it is black on black? < 1249572394 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF guys < 1249572399 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference isn't even that subtle < 1249572403 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's dark grey on black < 1249572416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? I blame my monitor then < 1249572421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't < 1249572431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a high-quality colour-calibrated display and it's smudgy black < 1249572440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, if I look at it at an extreme angel I can see the grey < 1249572448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angle* < 1249572450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249572454 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have a crappo MacBook and it's ultra-visible X_X < 1249572464 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a probably-crap-quality probably-non-calibrated display and it's clearly grey on black < 1249572475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L, there you go. To *BAD* monitor to show it properly < 1249572488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With enough crappiness a display can show you invisible pink unicorns. < 1249572505 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't care, as that's a lame tie no matter what shade of grey I use. Except for white maybe. < 1249572508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my pre-calibrated matte IPS apple display says it's smudges on black, so it's smudges on black. < 1249572510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED. < 1249572517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :White is the best shade of gray < 1249572519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with black < 1249572520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, except it will be indistinguishable (SP‽) from green such < 1249572532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: physically yes < 1249572534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spiritually, no < 1249572547 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And people who don't wear brightly-colored ties are SO LAMESAUCE. < 1249572554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate ties < 1249572556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them < 1249572563 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My tie is cyan. And I'm wearing a purple shirt. RIGHT NOW. < 1249572570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1249572586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L, I'm glad to say this is only text chat < 1249572594 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe a bit closer to magenta? Yeah, I'll go with magenta) < 1249572602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't cyan/purple like complement colours? < 1249572610 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno :P < 1249572614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well cyan/magenta < 1249572615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote With enough crappiness a display can show you invisible pink unicorns. < 1249572621 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :62| With enough crappiness a display can show you invisible pink unicorns. < 1249572645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone ever use that thing to *display* the quotes? < 1249572655 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1249572656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've seen it done < 1249572662 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what command was it < 1249572663 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :61| Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word? < 1249572664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249572671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572672 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6| I think the freemasons are actually a cover for homosexual men. < 1249572684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1249572687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572688 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33|IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! < 1249572688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1249572695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572696 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10| what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. < 1249572705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1249572707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572709 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18| GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. < 1249572712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand the context < 1249572715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572716 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26| Meh ._. < 1249572720 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all out of context :P < 1249572724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a good quote except it isn't funny < 1249572725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572726 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19| "You're at that stage in your life where you're going to want to do some things in private." --my mom < 1249572728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: where the nazis won the war but lost their grammar < 1249572731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lawd < 1249572733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572734 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :54| I guess when you're immortal, mapping your fonts isn't necessary < 1249572738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1249572741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have I started < 1249572745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572746 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :43| pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. ehird: consider low-gravity porn fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced. < 1249572751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE STARTED A REVOLUTION < 1249572771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1249572805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers low gravity porn. < 1249572811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fails to see the point < 1249572816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572818 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23| Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. < 1249572833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? what ^style is it? < 1249572835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1249572835 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1249572848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none afaik. < 1249572849 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3| EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" < 1249572856 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249572856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh what did it mean < 1249572858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1249572860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1249572865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572867 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21| First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, you know the rest. < 1249572869 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish riondgdunh_y"_'"'jigrjhiuyyè_jiy(h'n'j-i'uj-_y(ijhrt,et,nkprj'j-'-i"j < 1249572884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572885 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27| oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! < 1249572886 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^swedish riondgdunh_y"_'"'jigrjhiuyyè_jiy(h'n'j-i'uj-_y(ijhrt,et,nkprj'j-'-i"j < 1249572892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with low-gravity porn < 1249572895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot dead < 1249572897 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reeundgdoonh_y"_'"'jeegrjhiooyyè_jeey(h'n'j-i'ooj-_y(ijhrt,it,nkprj'j-'-i"j < 1249572906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: there are a negative amount of things wrong with it < 1249572907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27 was quite funny < 1249572911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572912 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :34|SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO): i tan solo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo esta absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce! < 1249572914 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah! < 1249572920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572921 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21| First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, you know the rest. < 1249572922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, nothing. just fail to see in what way it is better than the normal styff < 1249572924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff* < 1249572925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572925 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :62| With enough crappiness a display can show you invisible pink unicorns. < 1249572935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Everything is better in low-gravity < 1249572940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well you can have sex while airborne < 1249572940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except earth-like gravity) < 1249572951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if anyone's had sex on a vomit comet < 1249572954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...airporne? < 1249572956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like maybe trazjillionaires < 1249572958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249572959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: <3<3<3 < 1249572972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572974 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21| First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, you know the rest. < 1249572977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572978 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3| EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" < 1249572979 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :47| augur: pretty true. < 1249572981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572982 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33|IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! < 1249572986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have had sex in no-gravity, at least < 1249572986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol@augur>augur: < 1249572999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: rly? < 1249572999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249572999 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11| TODO: sex life < 1249573010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249573012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i think a millionnaire went up with his wife < 1249573012 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6| I think the freemasons are actually a cover for homosexual men. < 1249573021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249573023 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15| wouldn't that be considered pedophilia? No. They all go by stage names. < 1249573029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249573031 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16| 11 holes for me :D < 1249573035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: see, i guessed that! < 1249573036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1249573038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249573040 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48| i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. < 1249573040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i can't imagine the press release < 1249573044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249573046 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :51|* Dylan devides by Zorro < 1249573050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249573062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: afair nasa wanted to observe, for science, maybe just an urban legend though < 1249573063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MAXIMILLION TYCOON, the charitable millionaire, today had sexual intercourse in zero-gravity with his wife." < 1249573063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never seen Dylan in here... < 1249573071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he's not in here. < 1249573077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is Madelon, Lil`Cube or Quas_NaArt < 1249573079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, quote from elsewhere < 1249573081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249573085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249573089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1249573094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1249573102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the bot in more than one channel? < 1249573106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249573108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249573109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two networks < 1249573111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ones < 1249573117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here and sine. < 1249573127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and what is this sine I heard about before < 1249573132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an irc network < 1249573155 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better Network < 1249573160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249573161 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a < 1249573186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:XbSX6_ILf8IJ:creatures.wikia.com/wiki/Sine+%2Bsine+irc+network&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk <-- that? < 1249573194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google cache because the real page was so slow to load < 1249573200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gave up after 10 seconds) < 1249573201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's a different sgeo and dylan. < 1249573239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you would like to visit Sine, you are most welcome. Ask anyone in the above list for its address." <-- why so secret < 1249573256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah being most welcome and able to ask for the address sure is secret < 1249573266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking illuminati-level here < 1249573266 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO ONE SHALL KNOW THE SINE < 1249573271 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sine#freemasons < 1249573271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: spammers don't ask < 1249573279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, good reason < 1249573301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only reason i can imagine < 1249573311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1249573313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1249573313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.whereiwrite.org/delany.php i thought this was a zero-gravity writing place < 1249573314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are o's < 1249573314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was lik < 1249573316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1249573317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fucking yeah < 1249573342 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: o rly? < 1249573393 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249573399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o definitely < 1249573542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh i love forth and smalltalk too much < 1249573602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse-word HELLO cr type cr < 1249573602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO < 1249573602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok < 1249573603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3<3 < 1249573860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how you can add syntax and parsers to forth (same thing) in a few words < 1249573966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how these pants are INEXPLICABLY 1 INCH SMALLER AROUND THE WASTE THAN EVERY OTHER PAIR I OWN < 1249573992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: hello ." Hello, " parse-word type ." !" ; ok < 1249573992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world Hello, world! ok < 1249573993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: test hello world ; < 1249573993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3: Undefined word < 1249573993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh < 1249573998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to learn how to do compile words < 1249574084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ct style is built with our VariKN toolkit, but it's from a really small data, so... < 1249574092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1249574092 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1249574100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: It's funny, because ct is the worst style. < 1249574100 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! < 1249574107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wears changéd pants < 1249574111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another "he's a tricycle" < 1249574119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^really a < 1249574150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: length contraction. it's a relativistic effect. < 1249574159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's not that much text in it. And there are two very nice model size control parameters to tweak, I just haven't tweaked them for fungot use. < 1249574159 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! < 1249574160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: KTHX < 1249574200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: no, that's taboo, bits can't mingle with bits < 1249574200 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! < 1249574203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh man that was a terrible pun!) < 1249574211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of it < 1249574214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single element < 1249574217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rupert Murdoch announces that he will be charging for the site of every news company he owns. < 1249574223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: old < 1249574226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I note that it's saying the exact same line a lot < 1249574237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was having trouble with IP last night. < 1249574245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: older than that < 1249574259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Shaddup. < 1249574326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you may be experiencing time dilation as well, i suppose < 1249574546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dropped my cool-drink, but luckily i caught it. < 1249574555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crink < 1249574599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, not _that_ cool < 1249574621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it makes a *crink*, it's frozen, not a drink < 1249574631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=crink pick one! < 1249574637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably because the fungot generation code uses the longest-length n-grams it finds. Optimally it should use the backoff weights also explicitly in the model, but I don't have support for that in the Funge code. < 1249574637 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much, much strong guy! < 1249574746 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, has anyone seen a decent definition on urbandictionary < 1249574759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean they have "print this on a mug", what the fuck is that about < 1249574763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, of coonpickrobber < 1249574785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print this random crap someone wrote high as a humper on a mug < 1249574793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite so < 1249574815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what should i code in forth < 1249574860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a Haskell compiler. < 1249574871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh no :P < 1249574877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno....................... < 1249574892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well nno! < 1249574892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: coonpickrobber is not on ud < 1249574896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is < 1249574898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my heart < 1249574907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ay not. < 1249574939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ry uan < 1249574940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway gotta go read some totally crink shit < 1249574948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crink dat < 1249575023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have never edited Wikipedia because I'm afraid that an admin will just revert it and then hack me and my family via my IP address. How many times a day would you say you do this?" < 1249575277 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249575766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see catch < 1249575766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noname : < 1249575767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : c" < 1249575767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ?0?%p?0&0N%D??0?=/?&?0? ???Y??0?%??0DA?0??0?%0S0&&0?%??0&&0P < 1249575773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like embedded machine code to me! < 1249575870 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249575878 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249575965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION implements the rationals in Forth < 1249576009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm Q/ or /Q I wonder < 1249576015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly /Q < 1249576025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although wait < 1249576040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to distinguish the operation Q/Q→Q and Z/Z→Q < 1249576365 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually managed to make http://www.zazzle.com/rule_30_tie-151111911076843021 with absolutely no cognition of any possible implications of having pink triangles all over one's tie :P < 1249576387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must now wear it < 1249576403 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm still gonna buy it :P < 1249576453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1249576565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey one of his goals IS flamboyancy! < 1249577113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that related to floating flames? ~ < 1249577116 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-38.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249577163 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It should be! < 1249577188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be flambuoyancy though! < 1249577212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a single letter difference... < 1249577440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just invented the single language better than smalltalk < 1249577476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1249577486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249577498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's smalltalk, except you can intercept it at ... sort-of-compile time < 1249577499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Forth! < 1249577518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ moar syntax < 1249577524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that could actually become a shitfest :P < 1249577552 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird → moar syntax < 1249577560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's me < 1249577561 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[*ehird].7() < 1249577572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: that's probably valid D. < 1249577578 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope :P < 1249577580 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even close < 1249577591 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ehird[7].d() < 1249577598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably invokes a template at run-time from a pointer with a recursion limit of 7 < 1249577605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then includes it in the current string < 1249577615 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird!(void*).d(7) < 1249577626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249577664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why smalltalk doesn't have list syntax, it's really annoying < 1249577716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/558.html <-- :D (yes I'm archive re-reading) < 1249577737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249577753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the annotation :) < 1249577773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/559.html ;; this annoys me too < 1249577774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/570.html <-- some oerjan-esque puns there. < 1249577802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean uh < 1249577803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bad" < 1249577822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah, but I still laughed out loud at them < 1249577932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/564.html ;; worst comic I ever read < 1249577943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/591.html <-- horrible pun again < 1249578039 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249578077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/617.html <-- :DDD < 1249578088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249578092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1249578097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1249578108 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll answer when the page loads < 1249578119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< < 1249578151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't get it :D < 1249578164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hey, give me a unicode square rotated 45 degrees. So it looks somewhat like <> but more square < 1249578170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there is one < 1249578171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO I KEEP COMING BACK HERE I WAS SUPPOSED TO GO < 1249578185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay < 1249578187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah unicode slave start digging < 1249578191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249578197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is good at unicode < 1249578203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you eman a diamond < 1249578206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't know what plane to look in at all < 1249578206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean < 1249578213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, yeah, square diamond < 1249578226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1249578226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a diamond < 1249578237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like an *actual* diamond, which is often quite different in shape < 1249578243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :◊ < 1249578248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lozenge < 1249578249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not square? < 1249578262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tough < 1249578262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :◊ is taller than it is wide < 1249578309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrosomatoglyph < 1249578465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: what did they call the new word about sex < 1249578469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: neolojism < 1249578517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/716.html < 1249578534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that from that wp page? < 1249578543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i just made it up, it' shilarious < 1249578547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why would cyberspace be bad < 1249578549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't get it < 1249578549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one good thing" < 1249578560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: neologism < 1249578567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that I get < 1249578571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the other part < 1249578571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jism < 1249578582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1249578583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the best joke ever < 1249578586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1249578729 0 :nornalbion!n=miyanoko@host86-130-235-100.range86-130.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249578795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not < 1249578798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1249578801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1249578814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nornalbion < 1249578825 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!Hi < 1249579048 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?Cool, are we putting punctuation before sentences now < 1249579059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :‽Who knows < 1249579067 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!I think it's a great idea < 1249579079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249579095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see the difference < 1249579106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'dont you? < 1249579125 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,'.Oh were putting ALL punctuation before < 1249579138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.'Thats not valid < 1249579153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?'Its like: ,'dont kay < 1249579161 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?,Backwards too < 1249579163 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?',Oh its supposed to be in reverse order < 1249579173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'youre all crazy < 1249579183 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!,Ooh interrobang < 1249579207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.:Asztal 'Its complicated < 1249579227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.:Asztal Whenever you go to type a punctuation ,character put it at the start of the attached word or sentence < 1249579270 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?,Oh does it depend on the meaning of the punctuation < 1249579304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!But of course ?We 'couldnt have it being simple ,now could we < 1249579312 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.I suppose not < 1249579348 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo is a word with a grave accent < 1249579350 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a word with a grave accent < 1249579354 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249579383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.'Im pretty sure this is distracting me from asking the -allimportant questions such as ""?Who let you in, ""?Who are you and ""?Did you sacrifice goats or sheep < 1249579388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1249579389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commas < 1249579396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.'Im pretty sure this is distracting me from asking the -allimportant questions such as ,""?Who let you in ""?Who are you and ""?Did you sacrifice goats or sheep < 1249579398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1249579421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"'Always be careful about your apostrophes" < 1249579469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that took me like ten seconds to get < 1249579530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.:nornalbion 'Im tempted to charge you for question -noncompliance but 'Im pretty sure we 'dont have a law against that < 1249579555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :().Fun :challenge say ""'pataphysics with this method < 1249580154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/258.html ← oh law < 1249580154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1249580391 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hamlet makes me think of a small ham < 1249580765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :halitosis < 1249580767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha li to sis < 1249580854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: I read that as "Hamlet makes me think of a small man". < 1249580864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very confusing. < 1249580873 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fat sack of jews < 1249580910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249581194 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249581199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi impomatic < 1249581213 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ehird. < 1249581232 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see the Brainfuck synthesizer yet? http://probablyprogramming.com/2009/08/06/a-brainfuck-synthesizer/ < 1249581293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, I guess. < 1249581885 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249581910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saw it a few minutes ago. Not bad. < 1249581969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://probablyprogramming.com/2009/08/06/a-brainfuck-synthesizer/ <<< i did this like a year or two ago < 1249581976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, umm, wow < 1249581995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't come up with that after knowing both brainfuck and how sound works < 1249582010 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249582037 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(didn't really read it yet, may be more sophisticated :P) < 1249582106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes notes and generates tones. < 1249582119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very sophisticated: it's his first non-trivial Brainfuck. < 1249582194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249582194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg sopier are gonna made an orangered envelope soap, that's like 500x better than the alien < 1249582202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i never really grasped pcm < 1249582211 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like he's planing to write a non-trivial program in 500 different languages. < 1249582233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one a day? < 1249582248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily one a day, but yeah. < 1249582250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not < 1249582252 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He should, instead, write a non-trivial programming language every day, with the interpreter written in the previous language :P < 1249582258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if i'd be happy using so much of my time < 1249582263 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every other day I think. It says 500 in 3 years. < 1249582266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: That would be win. < 1249582281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: and optimize the old ones so that the whole chain runs smoothly < 1249582284 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and then cascade the interpreters so he's got a tower of 500 :-) < 1249582292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://probablyprogramming.com/2009/08/01/500-programming-languages-python/ gee, a brainfuck interpreter < 1249582296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's non-trivial?! < 1249582309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1249582310 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom is non-trivial. < 1249582389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hear, hear. < 1249582408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since the interpretation consists of compiling to Python and then executing it. < 1249582453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound much less trivial to me, because of indentation < 1249582464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much less < 1249582477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ... Indentation is not hard to do. < 1249582503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's got like 2.5 extra lines of code going into it. < 1249582515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no, but you can't just s/// is up because of it < 1249582538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i'm just saying that 2.5 makes it seem harder than making a brainfuck interp to me, then again i've written hundreds of those < 1249582558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but consider < 1249582566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you interpret < 1249582570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to find the matching ] and [ < 1249582571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial sure < 1249582572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 5 lines < 1249582575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this way < 1249582581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just output a constant string and indent++ < 1249582582 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah i guess < 1249582586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the same with indent-- when you hit a ] < 1249582611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, okay, maybe it's tons easier than interpreting < 1249582644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And append ' '*indent to each line produced from s//. < 1249582648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean writing a brainfuck interp without parsing is actually surprisingly error prone < 1249582653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose any of the .fi people (other than ineiros, that is) is doing the Assembly thing. < 1249582671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is an assembly coming up? :) < 1249582684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The yearly one. You know. < 1249582688 0 :meanburrito920_!n=John@96.31.242.194 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249582692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it every year? :D < 1249582713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I guess it's twice a year nowadays. < 1249582718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop culture always escapes me < 1249582723 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway what assembly thing < 1249582749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one is assembly winter, which is a bit different < 1249582755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I don't do that thing. < 1249582764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It has a website, www.assembly.org. < 1249582783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh by doing the assembly thing did you just mean being there? < 1249582789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1249582793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249582800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought there was like some big competition everyone knew about < 1249582823 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249583033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: there is < 1249583039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there < 1249583044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean doesn't assembly have bunches < 1249583066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i thought there was one "the competition", because fizzie said "the assembly thing" < 1249583083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249583108 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was pretty stupid of me < 1249583148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is just to exist; those competitions are then, I don't know, some sort of sub-things. < 1249583226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't have put it better myself < 1249583257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote The thing is just to exist < 1249583266 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63| The thing is just to exist < 1249583435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1249583436 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :36| ehird: There is no h in "honour" < 1249583451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no i in individuality < 1249583481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxD < 1249583512 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOAL #1: Exist. < 1249583519 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having achieved goal #1, GOAL #2: Profit! < 1249583603 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-18.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249583834 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249584047 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to go to assembly about 15 years ago, but never got around to it. < 1249584181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been doing this yearly since I think 1996 (or '97; and with the exception of 2002 or something) and every year I sort-of decide it's not worth it. < 1249584185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm here again. < 1249584210 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is it not worth it? :P < 1249584227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the testosterone levels at assembly must be ridiculous < 1249584905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much to do here today, and it's a work-day tomorrow, so. < 1249584919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.osnews.com/story/21952/Haiku_Alpha_Just_a_Decision_Away < 1249584921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe it! < 1249584993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how best to handle an argument-neutral function without syntax in smalltalk elegantly < 1249585002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(m gcd: n) doesn't seem right < 1249586261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what are you doing then < 1249586288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembling. < 1249586343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coagulating. < 1249586375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a bit of x86 assembler to write, but it would be too antisocial, and this laptop is a PowerPPC. < 1249586418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power-PowerPC. < 1249586628 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249588142 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249588323 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249588325 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249588693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249588894 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1249589206 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-142-060.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249589211 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249589345 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1249589454 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.244.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249589468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bochs? < 1249590239 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"raise Hand, 'wave'" < 1249590793 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249590898 0 :Nowicjusz!n=ppp@chello089078252063.chello.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1249590922 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249592478 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249592782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249593010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo. bye zzo. < 1249593421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1249593437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to write a bf interp in forth < 1249593444 0 :k!n=kar8nga@a-16.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249593446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what boredom does to you! < 1249593461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi k < 1249593472 0 :k!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest42650 < 1249593491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to say something about your name and great communicational difficulties < 1249593506 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249593508 0 :Guest42650!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1249593514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's you < 1249593525 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1249593535 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically, in my native language, 'Guest42650' is actually how we say 'good morning' so its 6 of one, half dozen of the other < 1249593535 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes the connection is a bit spooky ... < 1249593548 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would that be? < 1249593553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: is your native language IRC? :P < 1249593565 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, 'internet bullshit' is indeed my native language < 1249593574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite so good chap < 1249593645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: btw you expressed interest in the os; design/coding should be underway by next month or thereabouts < 1249593648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least a first prototype < 1249593658 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right on < 1249593664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably i'll become a hermit and come back with a new love of the true languages PHP and FORTRAN < 1249593675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP for the lower-level, FORTRAN for everything else < 1249593688 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually isnt fortran a fine langauge nowadays? < 1249593719 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe its 'too rich' because it supports too much stuff but i thought you could write just about any style of code you wanted in it now < 1249593721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1249593723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how you define fine < 1249593744 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its not all UPPERCASE GOTO any more < 1249593748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1249593750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1249593756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is multi-paradigm too < 1249593757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still sucks < 1249593827 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I won't say anything on behalf of PHP, since pre-plan 9 I (shudder) did php+mysql stuff < 1249593844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first real language was php at 8 < 1249593852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took a long time to recover from that < 1249593878 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started with BASIC on an Apple ][ at age 5, also LOGO - I knew at the time that LOGO was better conceptually, also :) < 1249593899 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, i also ended up writing a lot more lines of BASIC code because it gave you more control over the system...and thus we see the classic dichotomy < 1249593943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hell with that dichotomy, no reason why you can't expose hardware as part of a high-level system :) < 1249593984 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, its a dichotomy created by bad practices and over hasty 'gold rush' architecture, its not fundamental < 1249594123 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249594185 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-104-179.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249594409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises he has no idea how to make a growing array in forth without manually writing realloc < 1249594419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess i'll do that < 1249594801 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249594856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing an OS in Forth, ehird? < 1249594860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1249594874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth core and smalltalk upper layer < 1249594880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the smalltalk compiler written in forth < 1249594890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not right now, no < 1249594893 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249594902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just writing in Forth, then. < 1249594907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249595275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..you can't run Qt applications in Windows without a commercial license? < 1249595317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said that < 1249595322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://spyced.blogspot.com/2005/09/review-of-6-python-ides.html < 1249595329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2005" < 1249595332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(The windows version was tested for all but Eric3, which was tested on Linux. Eric3 is based on Qt, which basically means you can't run it on Windows unless you've shelled out $$$ for a commerical Qt license, since there is no GPL version of Qt for Windows. Yes, there's Qt Free, but that's not exactly production-ready software.) " < 1249595334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1249595336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks very, oh, 2005. < 1249595340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Qt free" < 1249595345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not exactly production ready" < 1249595428 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249595479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: He is referring to the attempted port of Qt3/X11 to Win32. < 1249595497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure < 1249595498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.mit.edu/qt/www/freeeditions.html < 1249595501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c) 2004 < 1249595506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1249595549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Qt Free" links to http://qtwin.sourceforge.net/index.php/Main_Page < 1249595574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then < 1249595581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q... what a terrible name < 1249596282 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@165.172.34.95.customer.cdi.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249596283 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249596474 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249596668 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalala < 1249596738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alalalalal < 1249597020 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249597204 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249597433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaall < 1249597458 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1249597492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lllllaaaaaa < 1249597641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is #esoteric 's opinion on Pyjamas? < 1249597674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..............um.................? < 1249597684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're, uh, comfy? < 1249597691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249597692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pyjs.org/ < 1249597701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. How could I possibly have not known. < 1249597716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it's another "let's make shitty, un-web applications that run in a browser." < 1249597724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, users are scared of (a) hypertext, (b) native applications. < 1249597751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"javascript, a low-level alien language with weird complexities" < 1249597762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well this guy sounds like an idiot! < 1249597773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And, as you are writing in a much higher level language than Javascript" < 1249597783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JAVASCRIPT HAS PROTOTYPE-BASED OOP AND ITS MAIN INSPIRATION WAS LISP < 1249597788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PYTHON IS BASED ON THE TEACHING LANGUAGE ABC < 1249597790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE RETAAAAAAAAAAAAARDED < 1249597790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Javascript, low-level? < 1249597812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen complaints about Javascript before, but "low-level"? < 1249597830 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a.... low.... blow < 1249597834 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION snickers < 1249597842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it fly? < 1249597843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1249597843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Pyjamas a bird or a plane? < 1249597843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1249597843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come you can run python, then? < 1249597844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't: browsers only support javascript. So, all source code - libraries and applications - are translated into pure javascript. No python is left. at all. Otherwise, it wouldn't work, would it? < 1249597846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The libraries for it aren't all that good, but that doesn't make something low-level. < 1249597846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it work, then? < 1249597848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's magic. smoke. mirrors. the usual stuff. < 1249597858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would very much like this person to die < 1249597886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch the Javascript Console. < 1249597887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch the Javascript Console. < 1249597887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch the Javascript Console. < 1249597887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did we say, and emphasise enough, that you need to watch the Javascript Console? < 1249597887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to watch the javascript console. < 1249597887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to watch the javascript console because that is where runtime javascript errors are shown. Most web applications are written so badly that the errors are usually silently ignored by browsers, so as not to frighten users. As a developer, you cannot ignore the errors (not if you expect to actually be able to write an app, that is...) < 1249597891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE NOT FUNNY < 1249597903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: He claims it lets you do "declarative programming". < 1249597919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... Because Python is what I think of when I think declarative programming... < 1249597931 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249597959 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-97-225.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249597970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1249597977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def getBodyElement(): < 1249597977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : JS(""" return $doc.body; """) < 1249597978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy < 1249597980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :string templating in js < 1249597983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't get much better than this < 1249597986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that or he actually named it $doc < 1249597992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ is for shorthand functions, stoopid < 1249598054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I still can't believe he thinks Javascript is low-level. < 1249598066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote we replace Javascript with Forth, and let him ponder. :P < 1249598082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does it say, exactly, that he thinks JS is low-level < 1249598103 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249598117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Maybe my direct quotes are just too vague huh < 1249598120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have to scan whole sentences < 1249598125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And, as you are writing in a much higher level language than Javascript, it's a darn sight easier." < 1249598135 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the FAQ < 1249598137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway the FUNDAMENTAL NATURE of these toolkits SUCK < 1249598141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "Javascript, a low-level alien language with weird complexities". < 1249598145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are on the web, MAKE A WEB-LIKE DESIGN. < 1249598148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAKE IT RESTFUL. < 1249598152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAKE IT *HYPERTEXT*, DAMMIT! < 1249598159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T emulate a stupdi widget GUI! < 1249598161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stupid < 1249598164 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys know lots of languages right? you should totally concoct a language where each command is written in a language selected based on the hash of the previous command. < 1249598164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are missing the point! < 1249598199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1249598203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What they want is, essentially, Java applets. < 1249598207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except with HTML. < 1249598215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you don't want Java applets. Ever. :P < 1249598217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in other words: vomit) < 1249598252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. But you must admit that Java applets are a *significantly* better tool for what they want than AJAX. < 1249598259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it's at least *meant* to do that) < 1249598263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1249598280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Sgeo, if you use it I will stab your heart out with a fork. < 1249598283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike AJAX, which is, well, a massive pile of hacks. < 1249598320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, hey, pikhq. < 1249598322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't diss ajax. < 1249598327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just an http client mechanism exposed to javascript. < 1249598335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, sorry. < 1249598338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hate the playa, not the game :P < 1249598352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should specify further: the common usage of AJAX is a massive pile of hacks. < 1249598357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1249598378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, can i digress for a second and say that mobile internet plans really supersuck? < 1249598379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :£15/mo for 5GB, ffs < 1249598380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of vaguely dynamic hypertext, we get applications! ... In a language meant for vaguely dynamic hypertext! < 1249598380 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs JS < 1249598400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orange are apparently offering unmetered broadband… between midnight and 9am… < 1249598403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subject to "fair usage policy" < 1249598404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…for… < 1249598407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :£44.86/mo. < 1249598411 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1249598415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: We're not hating on JS. We're hating on people who believe that its abuse is a good software platform. ;) < 1249598419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It costs less than that for 8mbit residential internet PLUS PHONE SERVICE. < 1249598426 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://codu.org/jsmips/ < 1249598431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, it costs less than that for 24mbit internet. < 1249598441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Yes, but you don't believe that its abuse is a good software platform. < 1249598448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: You think that its abuse is fun to play with. < 1249598454 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P < 1249598486 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Google Web Toolkit for? Does it get the same scorn as Pyjamas? < 1249598502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's a Java -> Javascript compiler. < 1249598504 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GWT basically compiles Java to JS < 1249598507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And libraries. < 1249598509 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :George W Toolkit < 1249598527 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's so bad about Pyjamas compared to GWT? < 1249598534 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google pyjamas < 1249598536 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like GWT, pyjamas involves the translation of the application and libraries ( including UI widgets and DOM classes) to Javascript and the packaging up of ... \ [15]Pyjamas Book - [16]Getting started - [17]Features - [18]Showcase < 1249598546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The author is more retarded than the authors of GWT. < 1249598554 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably Pyjamas is from Python? So it's dynamic -> dynamic. < 1249598563 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GWT gives you static typing. < 1249598575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Pyjamas is not actually compiling Python to Javascript. < 1249598582 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pyjamas is language I do know quite well -> Language I don't know that well < 1249598584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1249598588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's creating Python programs that generate Javascript. < 1249598594 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.104.243.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249598600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. It's a libraries that lets you create ... < 1249598606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Hate English. < 1249598607 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...as I was saying < 1249598610 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249598613 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grumble grumble my grumble operating grumble system transparently-networked components grumble grumble < 1249598620 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, Sgeo < 1249598634 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pyjamas is not simply a Python→Javascript compiler < 1249598637 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN IF IT WAS < 1249598642 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckin' learn Javascript. < 1249598654 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not acceptable to spew out crappy, bloated generated code. < 1249598670 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249598674 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my universe, it is always acceptable to spew crappy, bloated generated code. < 1249598677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript most reminds me of Plof, only somewhat less dynamic. < 1249598677 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1249598683 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Can you fix jsmips not to spew about every filesystem access? < 1249598688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely considers making a calculator in Pyjamas, just to see ehird's reaction < 1249598706 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: It was for when I was on a SUPER-slow connection, so I wouldn't think "is this broken or just slow" :P < 1249598715 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uh, "congratulations, you can do stupid shit"? < 1249598727 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: it doesn't seem to cache the FS well < 1249598730 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls is quite slow each time < 1249598733 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the notes stop appearing < 1249598755 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to do an ARM emulator in js < 1249598778 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to steal or not steal whatever you don't want or want, respectively, from JSMIPS. < 1249598817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest at least taking the terminal emulation and ELF loader. < 1249598825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly also the FS stuff. < 1249598826 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said I'd use elf. < 1249598832 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the terminal emulation isn't his < 1249598840 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've modified it *shrugs* < 1249598840 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want to make a real display < 1249598841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He patched it, though. < 1249598845 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ "graphics card" < 1249598847 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and canvas display < 1249598852 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh, you want a full ARM emulator. < 1249598854 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including x11 < 1249598855 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not an ARM ABI emulator. < 1249598858 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: yep < 1249598865 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, you want something that will amazingly be EVEN SLOWER than JSMIPS. < 1249598870 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: nooooooo < 1249598873 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me optimise < 1249598880 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile code directly :< < 1249598883 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jit jit jit < 1249598895 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs scornfully. < 1249598904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't tried jsmips in 3.5 < 1249598916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see how much improvement we get from a JIT'ing Javascript. < 1249598921 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-232.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249598968 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i still have the faster js engine :> < 1249598971 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :safari in your face < 1249599007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Hush. < 1249599021 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fast for me < 1249599024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that Firefox 3.5 actually had a faster JS engine than Safari, though? < 1249599034 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: what happened to jsmmix or whatever < 1249599041 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm i dunno < 1249599042 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1249599043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it's about on par with early releases of Chrome. < 1249599044 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1249599046 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I abandoned it for JSMIPS :P < 1249599048 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahaha pikhq < 1249599055 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SquirrelFish Extreme... aka Nitro... < 1249599057 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is way faster than V8 < 1249599063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then. < 1249599064 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS only guarantees 32-bit integers, so MMIX was godawfully slow 64-bit emulation everywhere. < 1249599078 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: um < 1249599080 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js has no integers < 1249599082 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just doubles < 1249599085 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or floats, whatever < 1249599091 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS has numbers which are stored as floats or integers depending on use. < 1249599097 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not specified yet < 1249599099 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249599100 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/yet/yo/ < 1249599110 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet, EVERYBODY does it that way :P < 1249599112 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, I don't care. < 1249599125 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Yes, but I've never seen a JS engine that only does 32-bit integers < 1249599152 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean "only" as in "and not 64-bit integers"? < 1249599156 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "only" as in "and not floats" < 1249599166 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm yet to find one that does 64-bit integers at all. < 1249599190 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :javascript:alert(2147483648); < 1249599191 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alerts it < 1249599193 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :safari 4 < 1249599195 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitro/sf < 1249599196 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfx < 1249599227 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly certain that fits into a double. < 1249599277 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, the bitwise operations are all over 32-bit integers. < 1249599284 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: gimme a number that doesn't < 1249599285 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that IS specified. < 1249599286 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm lazy < 1249599294 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at work, so no, I'm not going to poke around at that :P < 1249599311 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm javascript:alert((2147483648<<1)>>1); DOES give 0 here < 1249599312 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1249599353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jebus, that's slow. < 1249599360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very spiffy, but slow. < 1249599389 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is slow < 1249599394 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsmips? < 1249599401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1249599411 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you running 'vim'? :P < 1249599419 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because 'vi' is quite usable here. < 1249599421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: No. < 1249599426 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh *shrugs* < 1249599428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took me a while just to get #!/bin/sh started. < 1249599440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Actually. < 1249599454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's the filesystem access work? AJAX to the server to fetch stuff? < 1249599458 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1249599462 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Implanted RFID chips encoded with your genetic code which can then be verified with a simple genetic test using blood taken from a random spot on your body. Also implanted with it, a GPS tracking device so people will know where you are at if someone is trying to attempt identity theft which will leave a trail for investigators to follow if ever a crime is committed. < 1249599463 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just part of it, we could also have other redundant methods of checking, like finger print scans (I have one on my laptop) or retina, or just facial recognition software. All of this would be backed up by the GPS device, Audio/Visual surveillance and monitoring of internet and phone activity for data mining, should it become necessary.]] < 1249599467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's why it's slow. XD < 1249599472 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgghhhhhhhhhh < 1249599480 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must kill this person post-haste < 1249599484 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it caches, so try the command again < 1249599498 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh "You do realize I've been joking this whole time, right? I thought it was obvious, but based on some people's reactions, I'm starting to get worried..." < 1249599502 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poe's law poe's law < 1249599517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: STABBY STABBY STABBY < 1249599541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249599545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Nice work, BTW. < 1249599567 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so many months past actually caring about JSMIPS :P < 1249599584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Yes, I noticed. < 1249599588 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEH < 1249599599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 months since the last commit (except for the commit making it valid XHTML 1.1). < 1249599602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249599633 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew xhtml 1.1 < 1249599633 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The XHTML 1.1 commit was one day after I installed a script that will harass me if it finds any non-compliant visible files on Codu :P < 1249599633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Anyways. What userspace you running there? Few hacked up programs, or Busybox, or what? < 1249599653 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heirloom < 1249599676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, classic UNIX, basically. < 1249599679 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: busybox is too Linux-dependent. bash I got working once but it was slow (actually it'd probably be faster now) < 1249599680 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1249599758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits as ls fetches the entire contents of /bin/ < 1249599828 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was dumb :P < 1249599835 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, what's dumb is my implementation of stat. < 1249599838 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That causes it to do that. < 1249599841 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that was still dumb! < 1249599874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: But after that, I can play with everything! < 1249599881 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'struth. < 1249599894 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until something kills your console and you have to refresh ;) < 1249599913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not worth it. I can play when I get high-speed Internets. < 1249599927 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THEN GREGOR DISAPPEARED < 1249599929 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249600883 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I need sleep!" < 1249600915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, play what? < 1249601003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSMIPS < 1249601120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 months since the last commit (except for the commit making it valid XHTML 1.1). < 1249601120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;) < 1249601120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ew xhtml 1.1 < 1249601124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, good work :D < 1249601263 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope AnMaster eventually dedicates his life to annoying me < 1249601285 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll become a zealot of not jumping off cliffs < 1249601856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249601870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :NoiseIncreaser < 1249602075 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1249602085 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249602154 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your hats! < 1249602161 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes GregorR's hat. < 1249602161 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1249602180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a hat < 1249602181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why < 1249602194 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[spoiler]DONT HELP HIM[/spoiler] < 1249602247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, err? < 1249602360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, why? < 1249602442 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because hats are fun. < 1249602567 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249602583 0 :ineiros_!n=ineiros@pc217.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249603303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1249603371 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249603402 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249603653 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249604111 0 :meanburrito920_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :meanburrito920 < 1249604187 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249604307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1249605123 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://corefault.de/uploads/2009-07-31_140758_webgui.jpg < 1249605129 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not put the baby in this book. < 1249605152 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you droo a moustache on it < 1249605433 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not mein! < 1249605438 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's a university's admission book < 1249605654 0 :NoiseIncreaser!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1249606161 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249606606 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to kind of remember that book. < 1249606620 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1249606765 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249607791 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249609267 0 :meanburrito920!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249609498 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249609641 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249609659 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249609660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see that now I have a formatted IRC log too, for each channels, in HTML format? < 1249609696 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please other people can save the log too while I am not < 1249609735 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1249609737 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1249609752 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: fyi it's considered incredibly bad taste to log channels without asking, in general < 1249609756 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often gets you banned < 1249609765 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they are my own channels that I created < 1249609771 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249609776 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1249609787 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/irclog/ < 1249609800 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My projects are on IRCNET however, not Freenode < 1249609820 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd join but I can't be bothered to connect to another server for the purpose < 1249609826 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do you know TheDailyWTF? I posted some FlogScript codes there too < 1249609834 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can view the logs without going to IRCNET < 1249609843 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :viewing logs != talking < 1249609878 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want the codes for the log module (it is a PHP module for PHIRC, and then a CRISC script also for automating set-up of logging on the channels) < 1249609919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think you could learn a less awful language, like Perl, INTER < 1249609921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they add support for modeless channels to Freenode then I might move the channels to Freenode < 1249609925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAL, or Malbolge? < 1249609949 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why does it need to be modeless < 1249609972 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TDWTF has "Programming Praxis" challenges where you post the codes in whatever way you want it posted, including your own way, I wanted to do code-golfing so I did. < 1249610000 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few other esoteric languages used there too < 1249610005 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why does it need to be modeless < 1249610006 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I find the time, I'm doing this one in library-less INTERCAL < 1249610019 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I want it modeless, that's why. < 1249610030 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so it being modeless trumps anyone actually talking there? < 1249610035 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure you understand what irc is for < 1249610040 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one are you doing in library-less INTERCAL? < 1249610196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also set my client to beep when anyone joins in that window, so I can be notified if someone joins. The titlebar also flashes whenever anything other than PING or ignored messages is received < 1249610267 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you gonna answer me? < 1249610339 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1249610347 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helpful < 1249610442 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, I don't know. < 1249610959 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249611088 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249611147 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an example of the logging software: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/irclog/PHIRC/20090806.html < 1249611193 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249611789 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249612972 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249614137 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249616123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249616549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249617244 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249618620 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249618687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf .+++++++.>+.<+++.>-..<.,,,[-].+.-.++++++++++.>.<--.>.,+[,.]++.>[-]+++++++++++++++++.<++.>-------.>[-]+[[-].+..+++++++++.,,,.]++.-.-.++++++++++. < 1249618694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf < 1249618749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes that there's indication in there that it's PSOX < 1249619124 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249619138 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249619204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249619212 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1249619330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yourworldoftext.com/static < 1249619938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249619977 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249620700 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249621079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249622174 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1249622876 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-168-223.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1249623905 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249623985 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249624171 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just discovered PRIMARY < 1249624173 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1249624185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, the prime material plane? < 1249624186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249624355 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249624359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the X selections < 1249624378 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely that it lets you copy without the clipboard on intelligent applications < 1249624390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can keep stuff clipboarded for later use < 1249624420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1249624997 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it < 1249625005 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select text without copying, then middle-click somewhere < 1249625108 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1249625139 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249625289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm very well aware of it. < 1249625331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "clipboard" is a higher-level abstraction offered by the GTK+ and Qt toolkits. < 1249625344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite different from the X selection buffer that X has had for ages. < 1249625521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they use the X selections in the same way, so all is happy < 1249625715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they don't. 100% completely different. < 1249625765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just a different buffer for things to be stored. The two are completely independent of each other. < 1249627222 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, shit sucks < 1249627475 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249627585 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"On the other hand, you have different fingers." < 1249627614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Yup. < 1249627697 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still live in colorado right? < 1249627722 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what school are you going to? < 1249627897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in Missouri. < 1249627909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to live in Colorado. < 1249627914 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249627921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, I'm going to the Missouri University of Science & Technology. < 1249627938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is to say, the only academically notable place in this entire state) < 1249627946 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can imagine < 1249627987 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-31.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249630417 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249631999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249632000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249634563 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-1-34.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249637062 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249638139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249639221 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249639393 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249639542 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-8-203.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249641526 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok < 1249641538 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur < 1249641542 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teach me finnish. < 1249641543 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now. < 1249641547 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 5 minutes < 1249641554 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole finnish? < 1249641557 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249641567 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd get an excess flood! < 1249641572 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1249641574 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :condense it < 1249641596 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, first of all the word for "to slumber" is "uinua" < 1249641614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1249641620 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i know finnish yet? < 1249641640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn you a Finnish. < 1249641647 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249641651 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i'd say you know most of it < 1249641653 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should write that. < 1249641665 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to see a language-learning site for coders. < 1249641682 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that isnt afraid to use theory-relevant stuff, too. < 1249641701 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where like < 1249641727 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're a computational linguist, you'll learn it really quickly. < 1249641738 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if youre just a coder or a linguist, rather quickly < 1249641748 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if youre neither, you wont learn it at all because you're dumb. < 1249641755 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249641759 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good < 1249641773 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, do one for finnish. < 1249641782 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not a linguist! < 1249641788 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you ARE a coder! < 1249641807 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat, yes < 1249641812 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, do it. < 1249641816 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.............................. < 1249641820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing. < 1249641821 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buttt < 1249641827 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklobutt. :D < 1249641837 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't, fizzie can do it < 1249641845 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :okloput < 1249641847 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie do you speak finnish fluently? < 1249641853 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1249641864 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because he lives in helsinki < 1249641875 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he? < 1249641877 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then! < 1249641879 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do it < 1249641880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't speak anything very fluently, but this IRC client text input box displays "fl" and "fi" as ligatures. < 1249641894 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flnnish. < 1249641973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flinnish. < 1249641985 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, where did that extra i come from. < 1249642007 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you should do it. seriously. < 1249642016 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write it up using some formal grammar < 1249642033 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen the use of language learning sites, the only hard part is to learn the vocab, and there's no magic bullet for that; i mean there are tricks, sure, but it's still a fucking quadrillion word ride < 1249642041 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you know grammar books < 1249642043 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything < 1249642053 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar can be tricky in some languages < 1249642056 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you learn the words, just read a few pages from a book and you'll know it all < 1249642057 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on the language, ofcourse < 1249642058 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1249642064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I have an affinity for writing things. < 1249642094 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted, a good grammar book written for smart readers can be condensed to a few dozen pages, for most stuff < 1249642096 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are nuances < 1249642120 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :italian is relatively similar to english, but even so there need to be a bunch of specifications of the differences < 1249642123 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd differences too < 1249642134 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones that dont easily map to english < 1249642153 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure a very smart reader can guess the odd differences! < 1249642164 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe from lots of practice! < 1249642192 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of things that would be simplified, tho, with just a simple formal treatment < 1249642219 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much of commonly used italian grammar could be condensed down to like two or three pages of tree diagrams and stuff < 1249642242 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1249642266 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just know "noun adj", the rest comes naturally < 1249642278 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm like totally fluent in italian) < 1249642280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and incidentally, I still don't live in Helsinki; I live in Espoo, which (despite several attempts) has not yet transmogrified into one big city with Helsinki. I think I pointed this out once already. < 1249642304 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"head movement to T in for non-aux T's, object shift for non-3p.pl pronouns, optional WH movement with T-to-C" < 1249642308 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, then again my joke was, for some reason, completely missed by augur anyway < 1249642312 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that describes a huge portion of the differences < 1249642333 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as if he doesn't know what a guy in turku could joke about in someone from helsinki < 1249642333 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"espoo" hahaha < 1249642339 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249642358 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Espoon_Tapiola_kesällä.jpg <3 < 1249642435 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was about to say that was a goddamn sexy view, but when i saw the kids, i figured it might be a bit inappropriate < 1249642446 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1249642458 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey youre the one who had a 13 year old girlfriend when you were 19 < 1249642462 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1249642467 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was *18* < 1249642472 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1249642473 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1249642474 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249642477 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pedo < 1249642493 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput, be my finnish boyfriend. ill pretend im 13 < 1249642516 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey augur < 1249642519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249642519 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knock knock < 1249642522 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1249642525 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go away < 1249642525 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knock knock < 1249642536 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13-yo's are physically adults, they're just stupider < 1249642544 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4chan partyvan, augur < 1249642548 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open the door! < 1249642571 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: and with smaller cocks. < 1249642610 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, umm, i guess. < 1249642635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't you done a comparative study? < 1249642665 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know very little about people's cocks after about 12, because i haven't seen one in years < 1249642680 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput, shame. < 1249642686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should fix this. < 1249642688 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i may have seen tons in the sauna < 1249642705 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocks are lovely things. < 1249642708 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not in erection, though < 1249642714 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you went to that kind of sauna < 1249642715 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially uncut cocks, which im sure finnish cocks are. < 1249642731 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: i'm not sure i've seen another man's erection irl, ever < 1249642755 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait that's another lie, there was this one dude once who started stroking his in the sauna when i was a kid < 1249642762 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249642776 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput, if i build a sauna, will you come sit in it? :o < 1249642779 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story, my shortest swimming trip ever < 1249642814 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249642822 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have nothing against naked mixed gender sauna with strangers < 1249642832 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1249642837 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, probably i would < 1249642840 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust me < 1249642846 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur's sauna won't be mixed genders < 1249642848 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about hot sauna sex? < 1249642871 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah: well it could be. i dont care if girls are there. as long as i dont have to fuck them what do i care < 1249642872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1249642874 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sauna is not so good for sex < 1249642882 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not going to the right saunas < 1249642884 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if over 60 < 1249642888 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :celsius < 1249642901 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sauna sex is a good way to get a stroke < 1249642903 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we could turn off the heat and generate some ourselves, so < 1249642985 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i need to go to the shoppe now < 1249643002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're doing something wrong if you generate ~80 degrees Celsius of body heat. < 1249643025 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or something very very right ;D < 1249643029 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: that, plus usually the seats are not very comfy, there are some technical difficulties < 1249643055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they sell these special "sauna pillow" things. < 1249643065 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, augur, how do you want to get the horse in the sauna < 1249643066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have one, I've never quite understood the point of it. < 1249643069 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can get interesting positions if you're not afraid to use the rail... well, assuming traditional finnish sauna blueprints < 1249643089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah: well we'll work on that < 1249643093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also get interesting burns if something slips, I assume. < 1249643120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew a girl who sat on a sauna stove (is that what "kiuas" officially is) at the age of four or something. < 1249643139 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i'd love to install kiuas in the english language < 1249643156 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they already fucked up sauna in pronunciation < 1249643161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sauna's already in there, why not all related paraphernalia. < 1249643165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOOONA. < 1249643170 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1249643177 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not said sooooooona in nglish < 1249643197 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how then? < 1249643198 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're using that to mean the sound in the word "saw" < 1249643202 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"saw-nuh" < 1249643206 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was < 1249643215 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said it to me, the other finn < 1249643217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, you have to read the "soooona" word like a Finn would, also. < 1249643236 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know how "ooooooooo" would be pronounced by a finn < 1249643249 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: o is always the "aw" thing < 1249643253 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1249643263 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish has the same vowels as lojban, except for y < 1249643270 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i presume "sauna" is "sah-oo-nuh"? < 1249643276 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lojban y is in finnish < 1249643280 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sah-oo-nah < 1249643299 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is nah < 1249643302 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ah < 1249643303 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronounced < 1249643305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1249643311 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sau like sound < 1249643314 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah like not < 1249643320 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249643324 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly like that < 1249643366 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you cant really blame english speakers for doing it wrong < 1249643373 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they adopt words using the spelling as a guide < 1249643377 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't, i was just making a joke. < 1249643383 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they use english pronunciation for the spelling < 1249643407 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and au in english is finnish o < 1249643425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I didn't know is that it's a verb too, according to Wiktionary. < 1249643429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"to sauna (third-person singular simple present saunas, present participle saunaing, simple past and past participle saunaed)" < 1249643441 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost every noun can be used as a verb in english < 1249643444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you saunaing today? < 1249643460 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great saunation so far < 1249643505 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saunation? < 1249643531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon shall be the time of the Great Saunification. < 1249643561 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: as a finn, i find that a natural way to abuse your language < 1249643570 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly fizzie agrees. < 1249643584 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saunification is grammatical, saunation isnt < 1249643589 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saunation is just weird < 1249643648 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's from the verb saunate, which clearly has something to do with sauna < 1249643652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's "tarnation", there should be "saunation". < 1249643662 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saunate is a verb now? < 1249643665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the saunation?! You haven't saunaed at all today?! < 1249643679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the phrase is "what in tarnation" < 1249643681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like the smurfs do, except, you know, boiling heat. < 1249643688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Well. < 1249643695 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it's not completely a verb. < 1249643712 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tarnation is also not from "tarnate" < 1249643715 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its from "entire nation" < 1249643726 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really don't try to make my purposefully horrible word bendings grammatical < 1249643733 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should < 1249643740 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i shouldn't < 1249643742 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre better when theyre grammatical but nonsensical < 1249643755 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what most finns say about my finnish bends < 1249643759 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249643786 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lolling matter < 1249643793 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL < 1249643828 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. what if you made childish porn < 1249643833 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1249643847 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random word association < 1249643863 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think /you/ should make porn < 1249643869 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've made porn < 1249643875 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme :o < 1249643883 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's with girls, you wouldn't like it < 1249643886 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats ok < 1249643889 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it has you in it :D < 1249643894 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1249643914 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt i have anything left, and i probably wouldn't give it to you < 1249643952 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1249643959 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249643964 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meany < 1249643980 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meany is not adjective < 1249643984 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249643985 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a noun. < 1249643989 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1249643992 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is. < 1249643994 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1249643997 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1249644002 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will go check?? < 1249644026 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively spelled meanie < 1249644030 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/meanie < 1249644031 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what do you know it's an alternate spelling i haven't seen < 1249644055 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was, though, exactly how i planned this conversation to go < 1249644066 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with you being wrong? < 1249644069 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249644078 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1249644086 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a clever ruse of mine < 1249644100 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't possibly remember what we were talking about, now < 1249644102 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1249644106 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you got to be right < 1249644110 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the best porn of all < 1249644117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no < 1249644121 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best porn of all is you naked < 1249644128 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249644144 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, i'm not *that* much above average hotness < 1249644244 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are to me! < 1249644249 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thats all that matters *.* < 1249644262 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose < 1249644265 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now shoppe! -> < 1249644268 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1249644911 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249645711 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-152-39.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249645943 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249646297 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-1-34.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249647525 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249647908 0 :nornalbion!n=miyanoko@host86-130-235-100.range86-130.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249648346 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249648662 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249649204 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249649419 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249651780 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249652735 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249653239 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249653414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joy, a fucking stupid reddit post saying that apple should have an antitrust suit filed against them < 1249653429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules that apply to MS do not apply to apple because THEY ARE PROTECTIONS BECAUSE THEY ARE A MONOPOLY < 1249653432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiot < 1249653433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1249653443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for the last time hardware DRM isn't illegal! < 1249653450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gawd < 1249653570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:03:25 select text without copying, then middle-click somewhere < 1249653572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1249653576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know about this? < 1249653633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:44:07 fizzie do you speak finnish fluently? < 1249653636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gahahahaha < 1249653677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:51:20 Oh, and incidentally, I still don't live in Helsinki; I live in Espoo, which (despite several attempts) has not yet transmogrified into one big city with Helsinki. I think I pointed this out once already. < 1249653677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what they want you to think < 1249653716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:54:18 hey youre the one who had a 13 year old girlfriend when you were 19 < 1249653716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:54:22 or whatever < 1249653716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:54:27 when i was *18* < 1249653716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:54:32 whatever < 1249653717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:54:33 same thing < 1249653717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from this we can conclude that 1=2 < 1249653737 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we can conclude from it that true is false, and therefore everything is true. < 1249653744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and false < 1249653749 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1249653755 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1249653755 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1249653755 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1249653771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:55:36 13-yo's are physically adults, they're just stupider < 1249653771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna be like this as an adult? < 1249653772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well shit. < 1249653790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:57:45 i know very little about people's cocks after about 12, because i haven't seen one in years < 1249653790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid to ask how much you know about people's cocks before 12 < 1249653793 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was talking about girls < 1249653817 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: a lot, because one of the subjects at school involved getting in the shower with guys. < 1249653827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well that doesn't count < 1249653830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just their fake penises < 1249653833 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1249653862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:01:41 Sauna sex is a good way to get a stroke < 1249653863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WHAT WAS STROKE? (A: Genitals.) < 1249653867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THEN. < 1249653868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not but. < 1249653870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then. < 1249653923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also okloput i have this awesome mental image of saunas where it's physically impossible to see anything more than, say, 5cm in front of you < 1249653926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me it's true < 1249653936 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are such saunas < 1249653952 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of steam < 1249653955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249653965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could make sex rather hard, unless you have a really tiny penis < 1249653967 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most saunas, it's just dark < 1249653976 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err why? < 1249653981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not hard < 1249653984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just risky < 1249654000 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, probably, in a sauna < 1249654015 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the seats are a few meters from the floor < 1249654019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1249654027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1249654027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1249654028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput < 1249654031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero gravity sauna < 1249654035 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249654039 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1249654045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love ideagasms < 1249654059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the whole savusauna thing, without a chimney. < 1249654061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauna#Smoke_sauna < 1249654068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that, in zero gravity < 1249654068 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex in a zero-gravity sauna while having tea < 1249654074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249654077 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in those, you can see 5cm < 1249654080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sauna/smoke sauna/ < 1249654084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249654085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's lame < 1249654086 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is no smoke in a smoke sauna < 1249654087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utterly lame < 1249654090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249654090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249654102 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd die otherwise < 1249654115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones I've been to tend to be pretty black, though, and just generally dark too. < 1249654120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex in a fatal zero-gravity smoke sauna while having tea and coffee at the same time < 1249654123 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, they are very dark < 1249654148 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that sounds pretty awesome, we should totally implement it < 1249654163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right except i'm not too sure about the whole fatal part < 1249654171 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...also lyly would work great as a loanword < 1249654185 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would probably beat kiuas in unpronounceability < 1249654195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeooass < 1249654274 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well right the fatal part may need some honing < 1249654290 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want like a perfect final experience thing < 1249654317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking that dying of being in the same room as smoke is unpleasant < 1249654344 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well stop thinking then < 1249654348 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or soemthing < 1249654352 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something < 1249654468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't inhale. < 1249654753 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249654783 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249655147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i think oxygen like < 1249655148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks < 1249655377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think, I just ask the computer to think for me: < 1249655379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think oxygen going "oh no", then? brilliant! who's driving it? maybe syntax-e identity in psyntax? < 1249655399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oxygen going 'oh no'" sounds like trouble ahead. < 1249655485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249655510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RecursionRecursionRecursionRecursionButtcursion < 1249655919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/plan_b/1/ego < 1249655970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, this "in-browser implementation of Python" chokes on class A(object): pass. < 1249657327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/PwccqNBl5qtxvki3vTc7oo9no1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1249740096&Signature=iPL8Sjiw8BVkaPnSLT5dhf3vbU8%3D ;; Well, this is simple! < 1249657388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quick! In five seconds, how do you upgrade from Vista Business 32-bit to Windows 7 Professional 64-bit?" < 1249657860 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1249657987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249658468 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249659314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : its from "entire nation" < 1249659329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i assumed it was a euphemism for damnation < 1249659383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be more amusing if it were a euphemism for euphemism. < 1249659456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will take your word for that. < 1249659568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : from this we can conclude that 1=2 < 1249659581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from that we can deduce that bertrand russell is the pope. < 1249659601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he did it himself, you know.) < 1249659610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mope the pope tote < 1249659622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And from that we can deduce that the Pope is not really Catholic. < 1249659645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :systematic! < 1249659663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway that's clearly a bit off < 1249659667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it three/ < 1249659670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :father son holy ghost < 1249659676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd want to be proving 1=3 < 1249659678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather infinity=3 < 1249659699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i don't think the trinity entered the proof < 1249659850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: n=succ(n), more like. < 1249659850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1249659865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that an infinite recursion of oral? < 1249659875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be. < 1249659887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1249660126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Quick! In five seconds, how do you upgrade from Vista Business 32-bit to Windows 7 Professional 64-bit?" <-- my first guess would be, "not in five seconds." < 1249660133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249660285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF Starbucks? < 1249660309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did they do now? < 1249660309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've started opening unbranded "stealth cafés" in order to compete with local coffee shops. < 1249660317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249660326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FUD < 1249660345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, it says starbucks all over, and there's tons of news about it; nobody's going to be "fooled" < 1249660345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ? < 1249660359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the other, most reports from people who have actually been there suggest it isn't really a starbucks < 1249660368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1249660369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, business-wise it is, but coffee-wise it's better < 1249660374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i admit < 1249660377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"inspired by starbucks" < 1249660382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is some weird-ass wording < 1249660391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though if it still has the shit coffee, not worth going. < 1249660430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, NSFW: http://imgur.com/VJzZW.jpg < 1249660496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More naked obama + unicorn than you could shake a horn at: http://wildammo.com/2009/07/27/unusual-paintings-of-obama-naked-with-unicorns/ < 1249660537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that Dr. House on the right? < 1249660561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249660568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Stalin on the left. < 1249660609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where are the _usual_ paintings of obama naked with unicorns? < 1249660623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T WANT TO KNOW < 1249660664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain basically shut off with http://wildammo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/obama-painting10.jpg < 1249660715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249660718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the painter appears to be a right-winger < 1249660837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a wing-nut? < 1249660882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obama's testicles are as of yet not painted. < 1249660887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i hope, at least.) < 1249661470 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-22.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249662670 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Is that an infinite recursion of oral? <<< what? < 1249662681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n = suck(n) < 1249662709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix suck < 1249662811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you there? < 1249662845 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oral, you mean like oral < 1249662856 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed that was "or all", written in a condensed form < 1249662857 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249662871 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning some well-known function < 1249662876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249662886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: well or all is just fold or, obviously < 1249662893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "or all" is a funny way of saying "any" < 1249662924 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, kinda like your mother is < 1249662942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mother is indeed a funny way of saying any < 1249662963 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kar8nga: party! < 1249662973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: we thus must consider the dual abbreviation of "and all" < 1249662990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessir < 1249662993 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andal < 1249663004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R andal l Munroe < 1249663008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats okloput for ruining the joke -----### < 1249663015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andal is also known as all, okloput :P < 1249663057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t all or < 1249663069 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorry, i wasn't thinking. < 1249663086 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all or :: [[Bool]] -> Bool < 1249663100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: you're a bit slow today < 1249663107 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like "allor" < 1249663183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell all or [[True,False],[False,True]] < 1249663184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY < 1249663184 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1249663195 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, anyand is even nicer < 1249663213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell any and [[True,False],[False,True]] < 1249663214 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1249663274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wow the LoseThos guy is even turning on the Loper OS guy, who praised it < 1249663278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hope your code reads better than your prose:-) < 1249663279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ripped-off my name, asshole. LoseThos. http://www.losethos.com" < 1249663288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how he ripped off his name < 1249663291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has OS in it? < 1249663294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, LoseThos. < 1249663296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1249663306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You just sound a little stilted. Nice vocabulary, but tone-down the arrogance. < 1249663306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read fancy words. God makes riddles when he talks to me. < 1249663307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[another god speak thing] < 1249663307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your writing sounds like a rant of a person more crazy than I am." < 1249663326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The juxtaposition of "END displacing large servants" and "Your writing sounds like a rant of a person more crazy than I am." is hilarious. < 1249663348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: some people's motivations seem just destined to remain riddles < 1249663368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just insane < 1249663370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridiculously insane < 1249663378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got worse though, he was less crazy beforehand, slightly < 1249663379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still love his theory that "finished programs don't need memory protection, because they don't malfunction". < 1249663396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he keeps at this, uh < 1249663397 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem like that's what his theory is < 1249663404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think he needs serious psychiatric help < 1249663409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: It's one of many theories he has. < 1249663419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there is no such thing as "just insane". insane just means anyone falling outside the very narrow region known as "normal", afaiac < 1249663431 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: seems like he's more saying no protection is fun for certain types of hacking < 1249663444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: really, don't try and justify the guy, it might seem ok on the surface < 1249663448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/normal/sane/ < 1249663448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you really read about it you'll go insane < 1249663449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Finished programs don't need memory protection, because they don't malfunction." < 1249663457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: colloquial language in your face < 1249663463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's true actually < 1249663467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's just that there's no finished program < 1249663469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe hello world < 1249663479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Right. < 1249663492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe junk that's been formally verified. < 1249663507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... But you really don't design your OS assuming that, now do you? < 1249663507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: errors in proof, errors in proof system < 1249663509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249663511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errors in what you're proving < 1249663512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1249663520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1249663575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises that for C strings, regexp ^ can be represented as [^\0] < 1249663577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1249663579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ as \0, ofc < 1249663633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: er, you mean . ? < 1249663645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1249663646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1249663651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ can be represented as [^\0](backtrack) < 1249663651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1249663665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1249663668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see that < 1249663670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't advance [^\0]) < 1249663678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1249663679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hm < 1249663683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no \0 at the start < 1249663690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh yes that's the point < 1249663691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ = [\0] though i guess < 1249663697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1249663700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right < 1249663704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ does have to be special cased < 1249663708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's not enforcing not-end < 1249663711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's enforcing start < 1249663758 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a glio, put it in your pocket < 1249663765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a reverse negative lookahead, i forget the syntax < 1249663820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?<=[^\0]) < 1249663830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not \0, . < 1249663845 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249663849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1249663855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you're right < 1249663878 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant is always right < 1249663895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1249664127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/575607.txt?key=jkkr84jcur9wbhf8clemq ;; I think this is an optimal compilation of the regexp (save tricks like reading multiple bytes at a time etc) < 1249664138 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249664154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that has a redundant break < 1249664162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1249664162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : break; < 1249664162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : default: < 1249664167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the break can be omitted there < 1249664213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though probably the nfa stuff beats it < 1249664285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249664288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249664317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a regex to C compiler? < 1249664331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i'm just toying with writing one for the hell of it < 1249664338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only actually regular regexs < 1249664351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (a) simplicity, (b) performance < 1249664361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Waiter, you got an exponential search in my matcher.) < 1249664375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently Perl compiles regexes behind the scenes, when they're encountered < 1249664381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they have a /o option to only compile once < 1249664385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: its algorithm is terrible, though < 1249664387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html < 1249664389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exponential < 1249664394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also note that the first graph is in second < 1249664395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1249664398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is in microseconds < 1249664441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rewrites his compilation as a state machine < 1249664448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's well-known that there are certain classes of regexen that Perl handles badly, although they tend to be not too hard to avoid < 1249664456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better algorithm seems like a good idea < 1249664468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the existing algorithm should be available as an option, for golfing < 1249664476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the paper covers this < 1249664482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just check if there's a backreference in the regexp < 1249664487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use the exponential algorithm then < 1249664500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason to make something an option that can be trivially automatic < 1249664517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1249664544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of code like 'aaaa' =~ /a?a?a?a?(?{print "Hello, world!\n"})aaaa/ < 1249664554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but clearly, it would detect the coderef there and fall back < 1249664562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that stuff can be done with an NFA, prolly < 1249664570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the actual expression is regular < 1249664581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's semantically incorrect to optimize that < 1249664588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"optimise"? < 1249664590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't print hello world 16 times, you're violating perl's spec < 1249664591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an optimisation < 1249664593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a compilation < 1249664603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't... constant fold or whatever < 1249664603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to be exponential in expressions like that one < 1249664606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249664614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't expect perl would actually adopt it < 1249664621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it exposes the implementation so much like in that case < 1249664633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, note that speed of compilation is often more important than speed of execution < 1249664640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compilation is fast < 1249664641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because regexes are compiled every time they're encountered < 1249664697 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why is that aaaa thing exponential? < 1249664712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz perl is stupid < 1249664712 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err hmm ?, right < 1249664715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i would assume that applies only to regexes that contain interpolated variables or such < 1249664738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you'd think so, but Perl's really stupid at that, you have to write /o to say "I'm not using an interpolated variable" < 1249664746 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes a)(not a) is different from (not a)(yes a), so there are 2^(amount of a's) possibilities < 1249664748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, at least; in practice they probably use the as-if rule < 1249664765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: yes, that's it < 1249664783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IIRC the code-block could even be able to tell which sort of match it was, in a more complicated regex < 1249664785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh? i thought /o was for when you _are_ using an interpolated variable but don't want the regex to change after the first use < 1249664792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1249664801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often does that happen, though? < 1249664820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if the variable is not actually changed, that could be common < 1249664822 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC perl caches regexes that don't have interpolated variables by default < 1249664837 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if they do have interpolated variables you have to use /o manually < 1249664878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/575625.txt?key=qetirlttqkzlvzaqnllg < 1249664885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the regexp as an FSM < 1249664893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the string is touched by his noodly appendage < 1249664899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rewrites it with gotos < 1249664907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(↑ This is considered a socially unacceptable thing to say.) < 1249665041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/575632.txt?key=maxdtnu8lhtptvmdwqwkfq < 1249665042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila. < 1249665045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is surely optimal. < 1249665050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, drop the case 4: line < 1249665063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, this doesn't gather the groups < 1249665064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1249665096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests it :P < 1249665149 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249665268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L2: < 1249665269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : movl 8(%ebp), %eax < 1249665269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : movzbl (%eax), %eax < 1249665269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : movsbl %al,%eax < 1249665269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cmpl $97, %eax < 1249665270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : je L4 < 1249665275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some pretty darn optimal code < 1249665304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it gets even better with -O3 < 1249665312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L3: < 1249665312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : movzbl (%eax), %edx < 1249665312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cmpb $97, %dl < 1249665313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : je L14 < 1249665320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's an interesting paper, it's mirroring what happened in parser development < 1249665326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know of a good asm→C decompiler? < 1249665331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1249665331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna see what the heck it compiles my state machine to < 1249665337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1249665343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it is, it's pretty amazing < 1249665366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/575640.txt?key=fdsiy0eymjwr3etpfdhx7g < 1249665369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the full code < 1249665417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION constructs a multi-MB string to test it with < 1249665469 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249665740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.pastie.org/private/zsluf1vbdaqlnpfzeeftq < 1249665757 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decompilation of that asm, modulo any errors I made < 1249665776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahaha, it rolled up the bbb check! < 1249665778 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be optimized in one place < 1249665782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just perversely great < 1249665793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it did what it did for alignment reasons < 1249665806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares? it did it < 1249665815 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, that 'ret = 1' in l6 (movl $1, %eax) < 1249665830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pointless if you jump to l8 immediately afterward < 1249665863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, even the plain state machine would be fast enough < 1249665866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with -O0 < 1249665869 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually missed that jump there: http://www.pastie.org/private/uqvjwjnkm1w0njxdnoqyfw < 1249665886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is odd indeed < 1249665934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, it's doing it there to have some space between the test and the jump < 1249665948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which might make the pipeline happier or something < 1249665987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't specify -march < 1249665988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to < 1249666030 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Your C seems to have a floating 'case 4:' < 1249666038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the next lines kthx < 1249666052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K < 1249666071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/575666.txt?key=orndvz7i6izopps9u6gy6q < 1249666071 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually did, I just completely ignored them thereafter < 1249666074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with march=core2 < 1249666082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just rearranges a bit and aligns < 1249666115 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1249666129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's the expected behavior of -O0 -march. < 1249666167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, -O3 < 1249666187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Use cfunge's compilation flags and see what happens < 1249666204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: give me them and I'll use them; I think actually thinking about them to copy them in would kill m < 1249666204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1249666206 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A good reference for when you want excessive optimization) < 1249666213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what's the simplest way to get time() except w/ msec < 1249666219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems to be no easy function < 1249666224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(measuring how long it takes to match 100mb str) < 1249666229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I could've sworn that GCC compiled it into a jump table. < 1249666231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1249666236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It did. < 1249666238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less. < 1249666241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1249666245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'm just blathering. < 1249666249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sort of < 1249666251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has comparisons < 1249666254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the best way to do it < 1249666393 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, he doesn't appear to use them any more, just a bunch of -W < 1249666406 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, whatever < 1249666415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Haha, unlikely. < 1249666430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you're in the development subbranchtree or something. < 1249666440 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1249666494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah. < 1249666511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM might give something different if you care enough < 1249666514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conclude that time() sux because it doesn't have a brother that does milliseconds unpainfully. < 1249666532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm kind of unmotivated to compile clang < 1249666545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever < 1249666557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang seems to compile pretty easily < 1249666560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the makefile worked for me < 1249666581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have to do it in-tree with llvm < 1249666584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an svn llvm < 1249666589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1249666591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1249666598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it didn't work for me, so I don't care < 1249666822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargl. < 1249666908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We conclude that it is certainly fine to use a 160-bit hash function like SHA1 or RIPEMD-160 with compare-by-hash. The chances of an accidental collision is about 2^-160. This is unimaginably small. You are roughly 2^90 times more likely to win a U.S. state lottery and be struck by lightning simultaneously than you are to encounter this type of error in your file system." < 1249666986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But, however, from our own acooke: < 1249666988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew cooke on April 14, 2008 5:50 PM < 1249666988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2^-160 is a bit misleading. as the first paper points out (search for "birthday") you're going to start getting collisions when you have around 2^80 blocks. that's still a lot of blocks, but *significantly* less than the 2^160 you might infer from what you wrote.) < 1249666995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Solution: Use a bigger hash.) < 1249667273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, following careful consideration < 1249667275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that my program has a bug. < 1249667351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems not. < 1249667394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pikhq: Deewiant: ais523:) It appears that my program can match a 1gb string in less than a second. < 1249667409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1249667412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, against which regex < 1249667421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it can deduce a non-match due to the first char? ;-) < 1249667435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, the string is carefully constructed to match. < 1249667442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^a*(bbb)*$, hand-compiled. Admittedly, not the most complex thing, HOWEVER < 1249667451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't really any more complex operation in regular expressions < 1249667459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no penalty for a long regex in my system < 1249667462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternation? < 1249667465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's about as fast as any < 1249667470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, not more expensive < 1249667475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have that, essentially < 1249667479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my handling of (bbb) < 1249667479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine (a|aaaaa)(aaaaaaa*)(aaa)? < 1249667499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastie.org/575632.txt?key=maxdtnu8lhtptvmdwqwkfq (ignore the case 4:) line < 1249667508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can see from how it handles (bbb), we already do such skipping. < 1249667523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just s/return 0/goto sN/ < 1249667635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, dammit, if I have this code right, a JIGGABYTE. < 1249667644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The memory usage matches up, so I don't think I'm overflowing any counters or anything. < 1249667656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I assert it, so it definitely gets to a return 1. < 1249667664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my other tests work, and it doesn't look buggy. < 1249667737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd test a bigger string but I don't have the ram. < 1249667743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey fizzie! Get that cluster up here :P < 1249667810 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249667813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: incidentally, I think b?(bbb)* is more complex than a*(bbb)* < 1249667826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in the second there, there isn't any ambiguity about how to match any given string, in the first, there is < 1249667838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Gimme a test proggy, I have about 7 GB available < 1249667862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'll cook something up. < 1249667885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I < 1249667903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'m afraid that my time counting code didn't work, so you'll just have to clockball how long it takes after printing "Go!". < 1249667903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1249667906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should only be a second or two. < 1249667931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gettimeofday()? < 1249667949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: write me the code to measure how long it took in ms and I'll be happy to pop it in :P < 1249667984 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=966499 < 1249668005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regex7gb.c:53: warning: integer constant is too large for ‘long’ type < 1249668013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fuck you! :P < 1249668016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: kay < 1249668018 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well s/int64/long/ < 1249668037 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Ubuntu forums, whaddya expect :-P < 1249668044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't comment < 1249668093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, even dividing by ten it's too big :P < 1249668108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1249668111 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's microseconds < 1249668114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a new approach < 1249668120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm talking about my string-builder < 1249668126 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1249668130 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249668136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1249668139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was complaining about another part of code < 1249668140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249668150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *s = malloc(7516192768), *t = s; in particular < 1249668163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm there's not actually a way to do that is there < 1249668175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think malloc takes a long long < 1249668176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UL < 1249668180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes a size_t < 1249668185 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will be big enough on my machine < 1249668198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot -m64 < 1249668201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps forehead < 1249668216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly 32-bit people :-) < 1249668230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snow Leopard :-P < 1249668239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly 32-bit people :-) < 1249668260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snow Leopard will be 64-bit. >:( < 1249668266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://pastie.org/575711.txt?key=tymvrwsyvuypohm5h5mra; I didn't add the timer cause I'm lazy < 1249668271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll only take a few secs after go < 1249668287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I'm going to bother to get an even semiaccurate measurement < 1249668339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"These kinds of discussions often use Turing machines, but these days not many people are comfortable with Turing machines, so I'm going to use Scheme. [؟]" < 1249668406 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9250853 microseconds < 1249668439 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It pushed some things into swap though, let's try again < 1249668463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, more like 4.2 seconds on average < 1249668469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Irrelevant < 1249668472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of that is building the string < 1249668477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to count after "Go!" < 1249668487 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I added the timer code < 1249668494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P < 1249668495 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And init after go. < 1249668499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's very good if you ask me. < 1249668520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Built with -O3 -march=native on GCC 4.4.1 < 1249668521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that anyone's going to be matching 7gb strings, but... it's nice to be able to. < 1249668536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Pfft, you didn't even unroll loops! :-P < 1249668545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What loops? :-P < 1249668554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The string-building ones, duh! < 1249668561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1249668574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be an -O4 that enables every safe optimisation, and -O5 that enables every optimisation. < 1249668601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean -O666 < 1249668603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some optimizations counter each other's work, I think < 1249668616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some are of course just parameters you can tune < 1249668650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just try every permutation and pick the best < 1249668658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick the best by timing it by fuzz testing it < 1249668672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it takes input) < 1249668696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what you actually want is -Ojustloopforever < 1249668713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do them all in parallel of course < 1249668722 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249668722 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249668722 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249668734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that. < 1249668734 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249668734 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249668734 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1249668737 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what you actually want is -Ojustloopforeveronallavailablecores < 1249668819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: For some definition of "forever"? < 1249668869 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably around 100 optimization options < 1249668879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have 93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000 permutations < 1249668898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, that definition of "forever" < 1249668941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that I guess we're not talking about the order in which they're applied < 1249668960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have it update the executable to the fastest as it goes. < 1249668961 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But rather, whether each one is applied or not < 1249668970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249668972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It still has to try every one < 1249668987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1267650600228229401496703205376 < 1249668998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, but you can use it as you go < 1249669011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, let's assume we have 128 cores; a Nehalem-EX system will be able to do that and we are after all in the future < 1249669020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of these can run two threads < 1249669038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ 4951760157141521099596496896 < 1249669050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let us assume that our program takes 1ms to execute < 1249669087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will only take 1.56915162 x 10^14 millenia < 1249669091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to fully complet < 1249669091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1249669105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't think of a bigger unit than millenia. < 1249669131 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aeon < 1249669143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill defined < 1249669155 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249669155 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then let aeon := 1 billion years < 1249669172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a billion here < 1249669176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^9? < 1249669179 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^9 of course < 1249669184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1249669187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 156915162000000000 years isn't bad < 1249669188 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the fuck uses anything else apart from dead people < 1249669197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :156911811 aeons then < 1249669206 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm dead according to your definition < 1249669214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you're just non-english < 1249669221 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also use it in English < 1249669222 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not and think a billion is 10^12 you sure should be! < 1249669229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: don't < 1249669232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses it that way in english < 1249669234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even the british < 1249669238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1249669250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, don't, it's dangerous < 1249669259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kalpa < 1249669276 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use it in dangerous contexts < 1249669283 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically I just use milliard and people stare blankly < 1249669323 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes because that is dead people talk < 1249669338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: Jolly good old bean. < 1249669342 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are grandpa moses' economist talking about grain exports in the bronze age < 1249669348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249669354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Canadians have it well since French uses the long scale < 1249669357 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^12 is the superior definition < 1249669359 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: Not quite that dead < 1249669362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: it is < 1249669366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not what is used < 1249669370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 10^12 comes up less < 1249669376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas 10^9 comes up more < 1249669376 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for less = hardly ever < 1249669377 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't give a shit, naturally < 1249669377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in, you know < 1249669379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real people units < 1249669383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah billion is a bad name < 1249669390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not a billion like a million is. < 1249669391 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah who cares about real people < 1249669392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares whether it comes up more < 1249669399 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipf < 1249669404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: people who don't want to say "three thousand million" < 1249669406 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"10^9 is more common than 10^12 so let's call it billion instead of milliard" < 1249669419 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use milliard, much easier < 1249669423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :milliard + scratchy communication line = million < 1249669434 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it sounds even more french than million < 1249669440 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's shortened to "yard" < 1249669444 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1249669445 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yard < 1249669462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: billion + scratchy communication line = million < 1249669472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more so than milliard, IMO :-P < 1249669475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: if you can't pronounce things properly < 1249669497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you need to have is a flu and they sound the same < 1249669507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Terry Pratchett says he's going to kill himself. < 1249669507 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In financial markets, yard (derived from milliard) is still often used instead of "billion" to avoid ambiguity between "million" and "billion". -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milliard < 1249669539 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck the financial markets < 1249669550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get off my mill yard < 1249669575 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway who gives a shit what the idiots still using a 10-base number system use for shorthands < 1249669578 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1249669585 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use SI prefix + years < 1249669593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: what's your favourite base < 1249669607 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is fine < 1249669614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: too verbose < 1249669618 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really use numbers much < 1249669621 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 156 petayears < 1249669637 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closer to 157 < 1249669637 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are well-known shorthands for writing base-2 < 1249669644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what < 1249669646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using base 4? < 1249669646 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hex < 1249669652 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1249669652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not base 2 < 1249669654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's base 16 < 1249669659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's /also/ a shorthand for base 2 < 1249669660 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that relevant < 1249669671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: because then you like base 16, not base 2! < 1249669678 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gives a shit < 1249669683 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers are pretty useless anyway < 1249669688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway base 3 is better < 1249669690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have a middle < 1249669715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather base 9 :P < 1249669719 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trinary has it's funny bones, yes. < 1249669826 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249669843 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate computers and their disconnection < 1249669846 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Nonary system of notation is used by the fictional civilization, The Culture, found in Iain M. Banks' books.[citation needed] < 1249669848 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1249669850 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fictional support < 1249669852 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonary 4eva < 1249669905 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy 2672- < 1249669907 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1249669909 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy 2672-08-07, anyway < 1249670202 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-2-207.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249670459 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there was a vm os < 1249670467 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where all its resources are dedicated to running multiple vms at once < 1249670485 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current ones sorta don't cut it because your vm is noticeably slower etc than your host < 1249670649 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why people write in pseudocode that's so much like real code < 1249670699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: A VM OS, you say? < 1249670703 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249670709 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd make trying OSes out so much nicer < 1249670714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like an IBM mainframe. < 1249670716 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could say "dedicate all resources to this OS" < 1249670718 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1249670721 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no partitioning < 1249670733 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you'd have to insanely optimise the hardware layers < 1249670738 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, make them almost direct drivers < 1249670741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainframe. < 1249670745 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with everything else being optional < 1249670747 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: on consumer hardware. < 1249670754 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfectly doable, just hard < 1249670757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Fair enough. < 1249670760 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier than writing a full OS, though :P < 1249670762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfectly doable, just hard. < 1249670772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, that would amount to a good hypervisor. < 1249670798 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1249670811 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know a super-simple png loader/writer lib for c < 1249670821 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically http://pngwriter.sourceforge.net/ for c < 1249670821 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249670870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249671187 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249671192 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh < 1249671628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft just patented XML document formats... < 1249671634 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249671635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they now seem to have a patent on XHTML and ODF, among other things < 1249671644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully, there's no way that particular patent will stand < 1249671651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not ODF. Their patent specifies "in a single XML file". < 1249671659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ODF uses multiple. < 1249671665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ODF uses single, too < 1249671668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, they're both valid < 1249671720 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only that part is patented, then < 1249671735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249671765 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This summary is probably not complete or fully accurate, but it is an impressive collection of distributed computations, produced within or on top of the Arpanet. Much of this work, however, was done in the early 70s; one participant recently commented, “It's hard for me to believe that this all happened seven years ago.” Since that time, we have not witnessed the anticipated blossoming of many distributed applications using the long-haul capabilities of < 1249671892 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the Arpanet. < 1249672379 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYluZRwrw9w < 1249672446 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone? < 1249672486 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perjan, no < 1249672491 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan* < 1249672502 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a euphemism for damnation < 1249672517 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what in the entire nation" ~ "what in the world" < 1249672551 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if someone writes a rap in lojban I'll paypal them $0 < 1249672563 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much of an incentive! < 1249672572 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extra incentive: you'll be fucking awesome < 1249672581 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249672585 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it has to rhyme < 1249672587 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youll be a guy who wrote a rap in lojban < 1249672592 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent < 1249672626 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like opposite < 1249672675 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur you just hate lojban because you suck < 1249672693 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, im just aware of how much of a nerd you have to be to rap in lojban. :P < 1249672695 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow < 1249672701 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lojban rap would rule. < 1249672734 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249672742 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: nerd increases awesomeness < 1249672758 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong kind of nerdery < 1249672787 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yeah well you're a fag < 1249672792 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1249672846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nerdation < 1249672905 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of lojban, http://jbotcan.org/xamselsku/index.cgi?id=17 < 1249672990 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://jbotcan.org/xamselsku/index.cgi?id=61 < 1249672994 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this qdb is hilarious < 1249673648 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1249673733 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-85.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249673759 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249673779 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/115736/Sin-bins-for-worst-families < 1249673780 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1249673891 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1249673898 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1984 ftw < 1249674018 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats crazy, dude < 1249674985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"orwlly?" < 1249675410 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249675664 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehehe balls < 1249676478 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249676744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1249676749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple png reader/writer lib in c < 1249676750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point me! < 1249676757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249676758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: libpng < 1249676774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean http://pngwriter.sourceforge.net/ simple, not libpng "simple" < 1249676782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pngwriter's in c++ though < 1249676828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpng has a simple API as well as the full one, IIRC < 1249676833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although IME the full one's been more usefu < 1249676835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*useful < 1249676851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en-gb&ei=FIB8SrGqOMOfjAf6laGIBw&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=libpng+simple+api&spell=1 < 1249676852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third link < 1249676853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latent content: LIBPNG: Worst API, Ever < 1249676853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1249676855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, simple as in "simple implementation, low level API" or simple as in "easy to use high level API" < 1249676866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no contradiction. < 1249676879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not in theory indeed :P < 1249676883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already gave a relevant pointer. http://pngwriter.sourceforge.net/quickstart-en.php should remove all doubts as to which < 1249676890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practise it seems to be < 1249676924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, the functions filename→vector and vector*filename→void must be soo complex < 1249676946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector? png is bitmapped... what are you talking about < 1249676967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you said Swedish mathematics education was piss-poor, < 1249676973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did they actually give you any classes at all? < 1249676988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh *that* type of vector. < 1249677122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is a hot day here, excuse me for not being up to speed. 25 C at 72% humidity in the evening... Was over 30 C during the day < 1249677139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I so hate early August... < 1249677147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and late July) < 1249677150 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249677156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the Swedes have resorted to complaining that it's over twenty degrees to justify their intelligence. < 1249677169 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249677176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... That's hot? < 1249677179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah. Math education is poor too. Vectors were only introduced in late high school < 1249677179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, my brain hasn't yet melted from hot temperatures. < 1249677182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, for Sweden yes < 1249677185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What?! < 1249677187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vectors, late high school? < 1249677188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's "finally, it fucking *cooled down*" temperature. < 1249677190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and very high humidity < 1249677191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN THE US IS BETTER THAN THAT < 1249677195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, at least. < 1249677199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see. That is what I told you < 1249677200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... No, no. < 1249677205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh. < 1249677205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vectors are covered in college. < 1249677208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's m— < 1249677210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249677215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a *tiny* bit in high school. < 1249677225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 90%? < 1249677227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, quite close to here < 1249677234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do USians really not know calculus before they enter university? < 1249677237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, even the good ones? < 1249677243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Only the good ones. < 1249677245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, 72% atm says the thingy that measures it. Was close to 80% yesterday at least < 1249677253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't check in the middle of the day < 1249677268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: US public education is *staggeringly* bad. < 1249677288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for Ivy League, huh. < 1249677294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all Swedish education is like the US public education < 1249677299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably know more mathematics than the average US high school graduate. < 1249677300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ivy Ihopeyouknowcalculusleague. < 1249677312 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have vectors in high school as well < 1249677313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I attach that to league and not ivy? < 1249677315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US at least makes up for it by having decent to good post-secondary education. < 1249677315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE WILL NEVER KNOW < 1249677319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since private education only recently started to grow from some tiny fraction of a percent < 1249677326 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Vectors are covered in college. <<< xD < 1249677364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput: In precalc (an optional course for HS students). < 1249677368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there wasn't a *lot* about vectors in high school in fact. < 1249677371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the basics < 1249677375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1249677388 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it matters, no one learns anything in high school anyway they can't learn in about 5 hours of lectures in uni. < 1249677406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned plenty *in* high school. < 1249677409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okloput, that is probably true < 1249677412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... Not *from* high school. < 1249677419 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249677429 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: been there < 1249677436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can safely say that from middle school onwards, the school education in this country teaches you precisely and exactly zip. < 1249677438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, private education? Or a joke about other stuff? < 1249677443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...until university, at least < 1249677455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He's talking about pornography, duh. < 1249677459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm autodidactic. < 1249677462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: He's not, actually.) < 1249677465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes that is what I meant with "other stuff" < 1249677467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249677472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Which is an improvement on the US. You stop learning in about elementary. < 1249677481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, he's actually talking about his ability to use a pretentious word to mean "I read Wikipedia" < 1249677491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autodidactic. I read Wikipedia. The choice is clear. < 1249677496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles autodidactic < 1249677504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I had the same tendency to self-teach things before Wikipedia existed. < 1249677512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"self-education" heh < 1249677513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read a lot. < 1249677513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249677525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with me for programming at least. And some of the math. < 1249677527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia used to be more distributed and less accurate /shrug < 1249677568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah :P I meant learning by reading, not wikipedia specifically < 1249677616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do some hivemind applications; e.g. answering questions by collating the web and IRC etc. < 1249677626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then FOOM) < 1249677637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd better do it before someone adds another fact to Cyc!) < 1249677759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The average USian reads about as well as a US 4th grade student. < 1249677789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, they can't even read a novel of moderate length. < 1249677819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 80% of Americans did not read a single book last year. < 1249677843 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well books can be kinda annoying < 1249677868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay you know what < 1249677869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck america < 1249677881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's gather up all the cool people in the US — should take a few hours — < 1249677882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: My thoughts exactly. < 1249677884 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey this nick is ugly < 1249677887 0 :okloput!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1249677893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shoot it into orbit < 1249677896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oxygen not required < 1249677899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, most Americans on Freenode, friends of theirs? < 1249677900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm not orbit < 1249677903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send it off to pluto < 1249677914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dunno there are plenty of cool people who abstain from freenode for good reasons < 1249677931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for example, freenode's founder and administration are uh, questionable) < 1249677936 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want to kill all the cool people in usa < 1249677942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add OFTC and find a way to include the non-programmers < 1249677949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's why I said "and friends of theirs". < 1249677955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1249677957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: recursive? < 1249677959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : About 80% of Americans did not read a single book last year. <-- I suspect things are close to as bad in Sweden, That is from personal experience talking to people; I don't have actual numbers handy. < 1249677964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz i'm sure that way you'll get a bunch of idiots < 1249677969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Within reason. < 1249677970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, that's almost certainly untrue < 1249677974 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah take the whole closure < 1249677978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweden is ranked among the top places to live etc < 1249677987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving like 5 hermits < 1249678000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Probably you need a function "coolPerson :: Person -> Bool" < 1249678010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: x -> Bool, aka Set x < 1249678016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's not terribly helpful < 1249678045 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Person would have to be a typeclass... < 1249678047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://www.scb.se/statistik/LE/LE0101/1976I02/LE0101_1976I02_BR_06_LE103SA0401.pdf seems to indicate it was 30% for men in 1999 < 1249678056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nornalbion: really? < 1249678057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 76% for women < 1249678059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1249678060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who *read books* < 1249678061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 1999 < 1249678062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1249678069 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't think it's a builtin in Haskell, somehow... < 1249678069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so possibly *worse* than US? < 1249678077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nornalbion: type Foo = ... < 1249678080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Foo = ... < 1249678088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait misread. Even worse < 1249678090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well we all know men just want sex and women are gentle and emotional < 1249678098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1249678100 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly I shouldn't talk about Haskell because I don't know much :P < 1249678118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeclasses have existing types as instances anyway < 1249678121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that wouldn't help < 1249678122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... That's more than 20% of people reading books. < 1249678137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway nornalbion where did you come from anyway < 1249678139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah yes. you said *who didn't read* < 1249678143 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Sine < 1249678147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1249678150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused me < 1249678161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nornalbion: don't recall seeing you in sine, k < 1249678164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to that pdf traditional dance is one of the most unpopular activities in Sweden < 1249678164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249678172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traditional dance is pretty suck < 1249678184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adherents of it include: Stallman. < 1249678200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I do *not* want to see fat man dancing, thank you. < 1249678201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, for women snowboard/windsurfing is even less popular (why combine those two!? makes no sense to me!) < 1249678213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pube5Aynsls < 1249678216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rms + soulja boy < 1249678258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Old. < 1249678271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly traditional dance :P < 1249678276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Census bureau defines literacy as "being able to read and write to any extent"... < 1249678279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traditional dance... wait... bad translation. Seems it is called "folk dance" says interwiki links < 1249678285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1249678289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249678298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah it's suck < 1249678309 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-142-060.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249678315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also combined snowboarding/windsurfing sounds amazing. < 1249678316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including "a small handful of familiar words"... < 1249678320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes i know < 1249678323 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm Miya < 1249678328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nornalbion: o < 1249678330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1249678334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God. So much suck. < 1249678335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly people and their silly names < 1249678337 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I tried to show you in sine, then noticed you weren't in it. Woops :\/ < 1249678349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame dylan :P < 1249678358 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did he do to you? :O < 1249678372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno i think i asked about something trivial and he got all pissy at me < 1249678393 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kay < 1249678446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Only 13% of the US population is able to compare viewpoints in two editorials; interpret a table about blood pressure, age, and physical activities; or compare and compute the cost per ounce of common food items. < 1249678451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D': < 1249678465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm a question ehird... not sure if you know about this, but... When a laptop is suspended the fans turn off. Could that have any bad effects if the fans were working at full speed just before suspending? < 1249678469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory I mean < 1249678475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduced cooling or something < 1249678476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249678487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to rewrite the rest of Baby Got Back, but finds that "when a coder walks in with an itty bitty instruction set" doesn't fit < 1249678488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm guess no need for cooling once cpu turns off < 1249678506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't, although it isn't cooling, the CPU won't get any hotter because it isn't running < 1249678507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I could use "lang" < 1249678521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Listen to Jonathan Coulton singing it for inspiration. < 1249678523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true. But it won't cool down as fast < 1249678530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory < 1249678535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(depending on workload) < 1249678555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to suddenly reduced workload I mean with fans still running for a few seconds < 1249678562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't think you understand how cooling works < 1249678575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not producing heat, so it'll just dissipate into the air < 1249678624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm an issue with Baby Got Back is that it's rather biased towards the object being large < 1249678631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas we stereotypically go the opposite way < 1249678647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true. But question is how fast it will cool down. Considering how hot the air becomes where it exits... I'm not positive but it feels like it could melt stuff standing too close, so putting the laptop in a backpack directly after... hrrm < 1249678681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeeeeeeeeeeeno. < 1249678742 0 :nornalbion!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249678750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if CPU is around 60 C, then the air exiting would be a bit lower. Not sure how much but let me get a thermometer and put full load on both cores.. brb < 1249678761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster. It is not going to melt your backpack. < 1249678773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your CPU will also not die after suspension because that's not how cooling works. < 1249678788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just buy a laptop pad if you're worried anyway < 1249678790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that is true. I realised that after I asked < 1249678795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it won't /warm up/ after shutting down, though < 1249678798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I* need more cooling atm < 1249678799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1249678809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so if it would have melted after turning it off, it would have melted beforehand < 1249678819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't be too sure. My old first model ibook sometimes failed to shut down the cpu when you put it to sleep < 1249678827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean using a non-netbook laptop without a cooling pad is asking for trouble < 1249678832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it crashed right after turning off fan and right before turning off cpu < 1249678842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that was mac os 9 < 1249678846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overheating of both your components and uh, making you infertile < 1249678847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather different < 1249678858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use it on a table anyway < 1249678864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249678866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll still overheat < 1249678873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most companies strongly recommend you use a laptop pad < 1249678894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't see anything about that in the manual from lenovo though < 1249678912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be there < 1249678914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they do, so that they can sell you one < 1249678920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the safety stuff, say < 1249678923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, it seems it is quite easy to replace many parts of it. With warranty left I mean. Unlike those macs I have seen ;P < 1249678925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: uhh, no < 1249678931 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adoption is a simpler alternative to procuring a laptop pad < 1249678936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most laptop companies don't sell laptop pads < 1249678942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that doesn't solve it turning off because it overheated < 1249678943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even easily replace harddisk by just following three easy steps in the manual :P < 1249678954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'm sure it does! < 1249678961 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1249678961 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they have some kind of deal with a company who does, same difference < 1249678967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not IME, no. < 1249678972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's funny, because with a mbp you just screw open the case, take it out and put a new one in < 1249678987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, you only need one screw here. < 1249679007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's good; I can replace the laptop every time I sit it down easily. < 1249679012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/laptop/HD/ < 1249679014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1249679015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always wanted to do that. < 1249679021 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249679078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does macbook pros have PC-card? < 1249679086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the expresscard thing? < 1249679087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly certain plain macbooks doesn't < 1249679090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 17" one does. < 1249679099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well similar thingy. Possibly not exactly the same < 1249679100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1249679117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *do ma < 1249679124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1249679133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:04] AnMaster: ehird, does macbook pros have PC-card? < 1249679137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^2/[2/ < 1249679138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249679144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249679157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone presents me with a gui irc client for os x that lets me copy lines without fucking the formatting up, I will love them forever < 1249679180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was writing "mac book pro" first and added the s afterwards, forgot to change the "does" then < 1249679193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1249679200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny, because apple's marketing refer to them as singular < 1249679203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macbooks pro? macbooks pros? macbook pros? < 1249679221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacBook Pros, or, if you're apple, awkawrd sentences like "It makes MacBook Air incredibly light," < 1249679222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think I just demonstrated the reason :P < 1249679224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*awkward < 1249679232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As we all know, they only sell one unit of every model. < 1249679236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First come, first served! < 1249679246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1249679256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are very clear. < 1249679256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : First come, only served! < 1249679260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what you meant < 1249679267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My statement is still correct. < 1249679277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok, but less useful < 1249679319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw why would only the 17" model have express card? < 1249679336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, lenovo managed to fit *two* slots in this 15.4" model < 1249679349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stacked on top of each other < 1249679369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they did a study, found out almost everyone doesn't use it, find out that those who do just put in an SD card reader, replaced it with an SD card slot. Left it in the 17" model for the business/uber-pro people that really, really need it. < 1249679377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that would not work because the macbook pro is a lot thinner < 1249679390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm true < 1249679403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.95" thick, including closed display < 1249679409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, this has an sd reader too < 1249679410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249679414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the 15" model < 1249679423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined SD/MemoryStick/a/few/other/ones < 1249679435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly not the single format I actually use. which is CF < 1249679474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, thing that i learned recently: < 1249679480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :movies aren't edited uncompressed or losslessly < 1249679535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed, they are usually scanned from analogue master < 1249679540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least were < 1249679540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1249679542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no they're not < 1249679567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was ages ago I read about professional movie editing < 1249679571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, things changed < 1249679579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Middle Ages thereabouts, I assume. < 1249679591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 2002? 2003? Something like that < 1249679649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the lojbanic term for MOO is "computerized imaginary universe" < 1249679653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, translates as < 1249679700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1249679704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the name for _the_ lojban moo < 1249679715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it was like: low quality scan from master, *edit and save the edits*, scan high quality, auto apply the edits (would be too slow to work at the high quality when actually editing, yeah it was a while ago), reprint to analogue film "master" which is then used to create the film reels sent to the cinemas < 1249679737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProRes_422 < 1249679740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err, name for a word? < 1249679751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ..........no? < 1249679787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what do you mean about that "moo" then < 1249679792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1249679797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you said was confusing < 1249679812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moo is the noise cows make. < 1249679815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean the word "moo" is Lojban for "computerized imaginary universe" < 1249679816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1249679819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know that < 1249679837 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249679841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a joke about how lojban uses short words to represent useless, abstract concepts. < 1249679852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1249679872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar enough with lojban to know that it did that < 1249679886 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249679888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was a joke about the word "gullible" not being in the dictionary. < 1249679913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1249679923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you didn't get it, let me repeat: < 1249679929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was bullshitting. < 1249679940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I understand that now < 1249679967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it really use short words for useless (in everyday context) concepts? < 1249679988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and I'm an elephant that can fly. < 1249680003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess that means "no" < 1249680017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never know with you < 1249680017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say "no"? < 1249680067 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249680417 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680417 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680417 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680417 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680417 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680419 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680419 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680468 0 :randomity!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680469 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680470 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249680483 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-142-060.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-85.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-2-207.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :ineiros_!n=ineiros@pc217.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-1.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :olegfink!n=olegfink@rain.ifmo.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@203-214-111-155.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :randomity!i=mu@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.249.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@81.49.247.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680483 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249680495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the clothes < 1249680495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old style I mean < 1249680495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, with these hydraulic stilts < 1249680495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get really long trousers < 1249680495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get into the guiness book of records < 1249680504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog: < 1249688386 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249688386 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1249688390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb clog < 1249688428 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think quite a few people are actually working on integrating plan9 better with the functional paradigm, since the functional approach is very strong in network/signal processing/messaging type scenarios that are generally a good match for plan9 architecturally < 1249688431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, btw. Once plan9 supports modern hardware better I might actually consider switching. Oh and I guess once more software is ported to it as well.. < 1249688460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically when it works just as out of box on my new thinkpad as ubuntu did. Which I realise is not a reasonable goal at all. < 1249688475 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my opinion is that the right way to make use of plan9 is not at all to consider 'switching' - but rather to integrate whatever plan9 tools and tech is useful to you, via one of several methods < 1249688487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, I do have plan9port installed < 1249688490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you mean < 1249688492 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which might range from an old box acting as a plan9 server, to using plan9port, to using a virtual machine, etc) < 1249688552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it sometimes. But really I'm way more used to (gnu) emacs than sam or acme < 1249688553 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one way to access some of the tools, if you like them - i also think having a small qemu VM running as a headless cpu server is also a very nice and resource efficient way of adding plan9 stuff to your toolset < 1249688648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, does erlang/otp run on plan9... I don't remember that being supported. And I tend to use my old headless computers as parts of a distributed erlang network. Which means I can select between solaris, freebsd and linux really < 1249688685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, otherwise I would probably run it natively already on them < 1249688685 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me do a quick scan of contrib and see if i see anything erlang-related - not sure if someone has ported stuff or not < 1249688721 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, looks like if any erlang stuff has been done, its not on sources server at least < 1249688730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be rather non-trivial I suspect. < 1249688742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, it isn't something I would consider doing. < 1249688751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with the JIT stuff and such < 1249688782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not JIT, more like AOT. Still way over my head. < 1249688797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the basic interpreted bit, maybe. < 1249688903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, anyway. I would really want to use the network fs thingy, but I never figured out where to start with it under linux... So I ended up using nfs over the lan < 1249688931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I realize it can do much more than just files. < 1249688936 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249688938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still didn't figure out how < 1249688950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the kernel option thingy and that is all < 1249688960 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, honestly, the 9p stuff in linux is kind of a hassle, in my experience - i use plan9port but mostly for venti and some other stuff < 1249689015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, since I have modern hardware and I use 3D graphics quite a bit (and want reasonable frame rates) I don't expect I will run anything but linux as the "base" OS during the next few years < 1249689017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1249689048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang sorta sucks < 1249689063 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: im not expecting to change away from linux controlling most of my hardware either, but that doesnt interfere with my use of plan9 at all < 1249689108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is your opinion. IME all non-trivial programming languages has both good and bad bits. Every non-trivial language has some quirk. < 1249689130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, I can't state one opinion without AnMaster turning into plato or whatever mentioning "OH, THAT'S YOUR OPINION" < 1249689132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I heard you mention some in haskell too ehird. < 1249689140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's an objective fact woven into the universe that erlang sucks!!! < 1249689147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ERLANG SUCKS" was encoded in the big bang < 1249689149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ...? < 1249689161 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factory < 1249689162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, right. < 1249689166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the LHC has proved that it is a universal truth that erlang sucks < 1249689166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact. < 1249689181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you never give up... < 1249689192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you trying to yank my chains there......?? < 1249689193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with being so childish) < 1249689196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point <-------------> anmaster's head < 1249689206 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LHC didn't run yet, ehird < 1249689209 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't be silly < 1249689210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you tell such an outrageous lie < 1249689215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: doesn't matter, i used the sucking of erlang to see into the future < 1249689227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean god, someone tell me what time it id < 1249689228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to spell it out for you < 1249689228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1249689231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time i say an opinion < 1249689233 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you can see the future with it, that doesn't suck < 1249689234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you go "THAT'S YOUR OPINION" < 1249689238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you're making some epic point < 1249689239 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you resolve that paradox? < 1249689241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not every time < 1249689242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's my damn opinion, I SAID IT < 1249689243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check logs < 1249689250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: it sucks as a programming language < 1249689252 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: really, isnt it just YOUR OPINION that every time you say an opinion, he says that? < 1249689256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck you, shall i talk in objective predicates all the time? < 1249689263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY BY EVERY TIME MAYBE I JUST MEAN REALLY OFTEN < 1249689264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1249689274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human communication being subjective and imprecise. who'da thunk it! < 1249689309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't lojban supposed to "fix" that? < 1249689320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you're surely trolling < 1249689323 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rate ehird's rant 9.0 out of 10 on the rantmeter < 1249689326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes :P < 1249689337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo AnMaster doesn't use "that's your opinion" too much, or in stupid ways, then again that's just my opinion < 1249689343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, only? I would place it at 9.8 at leasyt < 1249689344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :least* < 1249689348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: THAT'S JUST YOUR OPINION < 1249689352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: why thank you < 1249689354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, :D < 1249689358 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i have pretty high standards for rants, since i deliver quite a few myself when triggered < 1249689380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: good point! < 1249689397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: anyway it's 23:56 bst < 1249689399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, ouch < 1249689410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, fun fact, gmt+1 < 1249689412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i envy your pasty present. < 1249689419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in here it's much later < 1249689423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:56 here < 1249689437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not, it's 00:57 there < 1249689443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was when you said that line, too < 1249689450 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me actually of one of my own rants: when i was in school, we had to learn to classify statements as 'fact' vs. 'opinion' - but the problem is, the definition of 'fact' was basically purely based on authority < 1249689455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for mycroftiv it seems to be much much earlier < 1249689465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: just go around the world < 1249689466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really fast < 1249689470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, damn yes, I looked at clock and then it switched half a second later < 1249689471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll never spend any time < 1249689489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FACT: Gay marriage will destroy the world. < 1249689507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so slighly slower than a concorde then? < 1249689509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FACT: Dettol protects?) < 1249689521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: concorde goes faster than sound, not time. < 1249689535 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gay marriage is meaningless < 1249689538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, faster than timezones < 1249689553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: tru dat, also interracial marriage < 1249689557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they already get the legal benefits < 1249689566 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the secret of eternal youth is circling the pole going against the flow of timezones, you go back in time one day per revolution < 1249689579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: but that's what i'm saying! < 1249689581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just go fast enough < 1249689587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well marriage isn't pointless, from a legal standpoint < 1249689588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and time will never pass an hour < 1249689605 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont have to go fast at all, if you go right up to the pole, you can just put your hand on the pole and spin around it in circles til you get dizzy < 1249689617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: The secret of eternal youth is going to a black hole. < 1249689627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and doing what? < 1249689630 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and balancing on the event horizon? < 1249689633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothing < 1249689633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also secret of becoming thin < 1249689636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very thing < 1249689638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thin < 1249689651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And also the secret of how not to be seen. < 1249689673 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not true - you are *eternally* visible to external observers if you fall into a black hole < 1249689683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm invisibility, eternal youth and thinness < 1249689686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: And also the secret of how not to be seen. <-- is it just me or does that remind you of monty python for some reason? < 1249689688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black holes could solve all our problems. < 1249689690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, after a while you'll get so faint that people won't be able to see the resulting photons < 1249689691 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however its true you get so red-shifted its very hard to actually see you < 1249689693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1249689693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: No. < 1249689699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not just you. < 1249689702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah < 1249689707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit AnMaster < 1249689713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you broke the chain of "name: no" < 1249689714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of what the sketch was though < 1249689719 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^what ais523 said, he understands what i meant < 1249689721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even pikhq continued it though accidentally < 1249689724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I didn't. pikhq did < 1249689731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh he did? < 1249689738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:01] pikhq: mycroftiv: No. < 1249689738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "not just" < 1249689738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:01] pikhq: AnMaster: No[…] < 1249689743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not starts with no < 1249689744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact < 1249689755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true, but thought you meant the whole message < 1249689758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "How Not to be Seen" is the name of the sketch. < 1249689764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then pikhq would have broken it with "No." < 1249689766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that has a dot < 1249689781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah yes... < 1249689802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, now I remember... < 1249689815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes that too < 1249689861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but didn't notice the . first time < 1249689913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: have you seen the absurd LoseThos? < 1249689919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.losethos.com/ < 1249689927 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: of course, i actually tried to download and run it awhile ago even < 1249689927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has 680x480 16 colour graphics... yet 12GB of RAM < 1249689928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1249689930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1249689932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't ramble about it < 1249689935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looove rambling about it and him < 1249689937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's so crazy < 1249689944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially his markov chain-esque godspeak < 1249689944 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive even seen him in forum debates < 1249689953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.loper-os.org/?p=46#comment-819 < 1249689955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your writing sounds like a rant of a person more crazy than I am." < 1249690016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1249690017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/97qbw/12_men_went_to_the_moon_using_an_understandable/c0br1sq?context=1 < 1249690020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got God for on-line support. (random words or passages on a plug-in hot key.) < 1249690031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is seriously advocating using his babble program to talk to god for help using the OS < 1249690031 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249690033 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249690051 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im crazy enough to appreciate the genius of that idea, but not crazy enough to think it would work < 1249690081 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the idea that sampling the 'random numbers supplied by the universe' at a given point is a way of finding hidden mechanism is something that 'most people' seem to actually believe < 1249690101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that meant to mean < 1249690123 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: thats what astrology, tarot, i ching, etc, all have as their idea - you get some random numbers, interpret them by rule, the universe hides meaning in them < 1249690132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1249690145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i'm fairly sure adherents don't consider them random per se, even with hidden meaning < 1249690148 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont believe in it myself, but if you press people on it, they think there is 'some truth' to those things, that they 'can work sometimes, for some people' < 1249690151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, the meaning isn't hidden in them, they ARE the mening < 1249690164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's hopeless talking to such people < 1249690175 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such people fill our world, we dont have much choice but to talk to them < 1249690182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their reality is always full of hopeless contradiction and rampant subjectivism of absolutely everything; solipsist-level < 1249690201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: but that's what the internet is for! :P < 1249690225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a shock everyone would get if it turned out to be true! (not that it is likely to ever turn out that way) < 1249690227 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, subjectivist philosophy is hopefully a bit more respectable than solipsism...but its true that the average person certainly retreats to patently solipsistic style reasoning if you try to engage them on the topic < 1249690259 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a statement like "everyone has their own truth and words dont really mean anything" is where trying to establish a consistent framework of definitions for people's own statements usually gets to, and quickly < 1249690264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1249690268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody would get a shock < 1249690271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one person. < 1249690278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, every scientist < 1249690287 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just asking people to provide their own freely chosen definitions for the terms they use in their statements will make them very angry if you press the point, generally < 1249690287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you understand what solipsism means. < 1249690297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if solipsism is correct, you don't exist. < 1249690300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are not conscious. < 1249690300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think you are referring to something else that I did < 1249690303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain made you up. < 1249690307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv too < 1249690308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant i ching and such < 1249690310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, everyone but me < 1249690313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tarot < 1249690314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1249690317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1249690319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your referent was very vague and delayed < 1249690323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it was < 1249690324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain made me up. < 1249690334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a figment of my own imagination. < 1249690358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a figment of my toes < 1249690385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your toes are a figment of your mom. < 1249690390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1249690456 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shhhh, you guys are talking to loud - you guys are gonna wake the colorless green ideas, they are busy sleeping furiously < 1249690465 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/to/too/ < 1249690493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soooooooo < 1249690504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: what vm host do you use for plan 9 btw? < 1249690511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always been slow when I've tried it < 1249690522 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both qemu and vmware server free beer < 1249690534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu was the one that was dog slow < 1249690542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also graphics drivers < 1249690543 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet you were using qemu to do the graphics though < 1249690546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a vm with driver problems < 1249690547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the irony < 1249690549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: erm yes < 1249690567 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never have qemu do the graphics, i run my VMs as headless CPU servers and always drawterm in or just import from them < 1249690576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't give me rio. < 1249690580 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1249690583 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drawterm is rio < 1249690585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249690596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my middle mouse button doesn't work! < 1249690602 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does in my drawterm < 1249690608 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you not set the mousetype correctly? < 1249690608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in general :P < 1249690635 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my middle mouse button does scrolling in plan9, as well as the 'button 2 click' functionality that is the original mouse vocabulary < 1249690644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you understand mycroftiv < 1249690647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the middle mouse button on my mouse < 1249690650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work. < 1249690657 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1249690669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes: to talk to mycroftiv, repeat line a lot < 1249690707 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, well, usually when someone says that 'X doesnt work' in a computer context, its at the software level - because most hardware that is broken gets unplugged and different component substituted < 1249690718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true dat < 1249690722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my other usb mice are unusable though < 1249690729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either they don't have a scrollwheel or they're not usb mice. < 1249690738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from my mighty mouse < 1249690750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in its touch-sensitive glory, the right click has become temperamental < 1249690753 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone is installing ubuntu and says "my monitor isnt working" im gonna assume they need help with an X server problem, not a coupon to wal-mart < 1249690756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and after enough time, just stops working < 1249690767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this mouse feels nice. < 1249690843 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me, indirectly, i think im gonna find (since someone probably already did it) or write the patch to make the horrible scrollbars in plan9 windows behave conventionally < 1249690858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen a scrollbar in plan 9 < 1249690870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe i have < 1249690871 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives ehird new glasses  < 1249690875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1249690877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never use scrollbars though < 1249690878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who does? < 1249690902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm rio's interface could be very interesting with one of those fancy multitouch trackpads on the macbook pros < 1249690913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could basically eliminate the window menu < 1249690915 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah actually rio could very easily be updated to a multitouch moel and be quite nice < 1249690923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249690942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem being the drivers of course < 1249690964 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that reminds me, when we are talking about fundamental issues... < 1249690983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"how do you do drivers?" < 1249690990 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that despite them being open-source, drivers are hard to reuse without extensive modification, is so frustrating < 1249691016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn i thought i was gonna be able to rant about my os < 1249691022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but linux drivers suck. < 1249691085 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that the linux kernel is so competent now at handling hardware but those free software drivers havent resulted in *every* free os being equally capable is just so damn sad, but its a symptom of the deeply ad-hoc nature of how everything is engineered < 1249691095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hell with kernsl < 1249691097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernels < 1249691134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO HELL < 1249691164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was indeed an awkward attempt to segue into talking about my OS!) < 1249691241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(instead it killed the chat) < 1249691249 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, were waiting for you to start talking < 1249691258 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your brilliantly prepared segue having established the context < 1249691264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwwwwwwkwaaaaaaaar < 1249691264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1249691407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooooooooooo < 1249691411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What state are we in < 1249691412 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249691427 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249691433 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im in state 'move right on tape until encountering a / ' < 1249691437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we still waiting for me < 1249691511 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is a multitasking preemptive IRC so we arent strictly 'waiting', if some other event occurs we can context switch to a new process < 1249691520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1249691635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still awkward! < 1249691705 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps ehird with a large trout until he says whatever the hell he was gonna say < 1249691712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know what context we're in! < 1249691720 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much *more* awkward to get trout-slapped than just say something, isnt it? < 1249691733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends < 1249691807 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine then, have some more < 1249691811 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to troutslap ehird < 1249691819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are not amused. < 1249691879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hdskjfhadf < 1249691932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: / < 1249691961 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes the / from the tape and begins to travel left until encountering a blank space < 1249692012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to talk about my os wasn't i < 1249692018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hands up if you want to know how hardware/drivers work in my os. < 1249692063 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we raise our hands, how can we type on our keyboards to let you know our hands are raised? < 1249692069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic. < 1249692163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell because people aren't typing < 1249692229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: ok you don't have to raise your hand < 1249692231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just type it < 1249692237 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-159.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249692265 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope the user interface for getting information out of your os is easier than the user interface you present in IRC for us getting the information from you < 1249692301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they differ? < 1249692333 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could raise your keyboard with your hand < 1249692342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: should i just start blabbing < 1249692350 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19 minutes and counting currently on latency between ehird signalling the channel he had information to communicate and the delivery of said information < 1249692354 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, we just hit 20 < 1249692359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you < 1249692362 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO TELL US ABOUT THE DRIVER MODEL ALREADY < 1249692368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1249692369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally < 1249692373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm < 1249692379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is going to be so anticlimatic < 1249692382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i even bother. i wonder. < 1249692405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mycroftiv tears out my soul.) < 1249692406 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to you, do you enjoy the troutslapping? < 1249692407 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249692412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1249692418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L enjoys troutslapping. < 1249692423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slap him instead. < 1249692435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249692436 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt he would tell me about how the drivers work in your os though. < 1249692449 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i dont see how it would maximize my utility < 1249692468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mo < 1249692470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m < 1249692480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway basically < 1249692488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drivers are voluntary < 1249692490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1249692500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any object that can get another object with which to communicate directly to the hardware < 1249692506 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my hard drive driver doesnt volunteer, i cant make it work? < 1249692508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can offer its services to any other object allowed to access it < 1249692514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: shush you < 1249692516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically < 1249692522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with these decentralised driver objects < 1249692530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can define eg interfaces < 1249692534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and supply relevant driver objects < 1249692536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like < 1249692544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using some hardware is just getting the relevant object < 1249692556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a driver is just something that translates sugary messages into communication with the low-level object < 1249692563 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like the correct model for your os, indeed < 1249692565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing special, nothing in the "kernel" (there is no kernel) < 1249692678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pleases me when stuff just fits in my model without any new "kernel" code or whatever < 1249692682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reaffirms that it's a good model < 1249692786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you know, if there wasn't the issue of Other People's Things being unreliable, and slowness of the internet, I'd probably encrypt every object and distribute the storage across every other machine < 1249692797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas those are bohh false < 1249692798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*both < 1249692801 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooof < 1249692806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every other machine running that OS, that is < 1249692827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but drives disappear, network nodes disappear, and the internet is slow. < 1249692832 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a couple projects in existence that do that - i forget what the main one is called < 1249692837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not surprised < 1249692847 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dont think making that your *default* is at all sane - as you correctly have stated < 1249692863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I swear that people have never heard of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_Distributed_Computing < 1249692897 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. well, believe me, i have. < 1249692908 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wow is it maddening to design around all those issues... < 1249692943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i think the notion of a computer is flawed. < 1249692945 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first big plan9 project was kind of a distributed DNS-for-9p that ties into the inferno registry, and 99.9% of my development time on it was working out how to handle every possible failure mode < 1249692971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a piece of vm software well-suited to playing with plan9 < 1249692980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vmware fusion/parallels aren't suitable, they're way too windows-centric... < 1249692994 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you using os x as host os? < 1249692998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249692999 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure what the best solution is for that < 1249693004 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know about 9vx? < 1249693007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well qemu and stuff work but < 1249693012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yeah, it's not reaaaaaaal plan 9 :P < 1249693021 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe there is a pretty decent os x version of 9vx - and yes it is, especially if you use a full tree < 1249693033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but but. < 1249693035 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249693038 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get the regular plan9 .iso and copy it over to your filesystem and run 9vx from it < 1249693047 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 9vx binary distribution is sadly crap, i agree < 1249693053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but but but but but but but < 1249693057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't exactly the same! < 1249693061 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, thats true < 1249693064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the host fs doesn't i < 1249693065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1249693072 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, although thats kind of an advantage really < 1249693075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooooooo < 1249693079 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you natural integration between the systems < 1249693084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is my escape from resource forks :-P < 1249693108 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, resource forks still exist in the mac os? are you joking? or am i confused? < 1249693125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do indeed < 1249693132 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i thought os x got rid of those... < 1249693148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's somewhat NeXTish as well. < 1249693151 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can os x be a UNIX then? sorry, i should know this, i dont keep up on os x like i should < 1249693156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249693158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me explain < 1249693170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, we use = and + to mean "bastard of x, y and z" < 1249693184 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically, i have a white plastic imac but i run gnu/linux on it, havent booted it to os x in forever and i never really learned what was up with os x before turning it into primarily leenooks box < 1249693233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac OS X = Darwin (derivative of XNU) + NEXTSTEP (XNU (BSD + Mach) + own stuff) + FreeBSD + Mac OS + own stuff < 1249693237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cower in fear! < 1249693247 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249693252 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure i know that, conceptually - i know the hsitory, carbon, cocoa, blah blah, mach etc < 1249693255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the Mac OS part is basically the fs < 1249693260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the mac os fs with changes to make it unix-compatible < 1249693263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus resource forks are retained < 1249693266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nightmare website: http://farmingdale.edu/lieoc < 1249693274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Throw in some GNU for good measure. < 1249693320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not really < 1249693330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Fine, mostly just the GNU C compiler. < 1249693333 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt BASH the shell though? < 1249693335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is almost everywhere. < 1249693339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249693339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: by default, yes < 1249693342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh used to be < 1249693344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Which is almost everywhere. < 1249693349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, csh. < 1249693350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they're working on replacing gcc with llvm/clang < 1249693351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to gpl 3 < 1249693352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1249693354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be zsh < 1249693359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this because i have used os x 10.2 < 1249693360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. That was csh. < 1249693364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249693365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was not < 1249693368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That shit was C shell. < 1249693370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be tcsh < 1249693372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it was zsh < 1249693374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it was bash < 1249693394 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249693532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: is there a way to get 9vx to use a big file as a block device? < 1249693535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, then I'll consider using it < 1249693555 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure, of course < 1249693579 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can either just run fossil/venti (if thats the idea) from flat files, or you could use devfs to make virtual devices from them < 1249693587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I wanted to use fossil < 1249693600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I just want a plan 9 system whose kernel doesn't get emulated.userspace < 1249693604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/userspace$// < 1249693616 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make a fossil, problem is that without patching that fossil wont be your *boot* fossil which i gather is also what you want? < 1249693647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. < 1249693662 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, thats possible, but it starts to get into the realm of patching-and-hacking < 1249693672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just use a fast vm + drawterm i guess < 1249693690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1249693696 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1249693702 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249693715 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you are using os x, i unfortunately cant really push my own toolchain on you, since i distribute it in linux-centric form < 1249693755 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise id be saying you should download my gridtools stuff since its all set up as a true modular multinode plan9 system already < 1249693861 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about plan9 thats frustrating is that the base bell labs .iso distribution is so far removed from a fully configured setup that most people never get to the point of experiencing the whole purpose of the os, since there is a ton of not-very-graceful admin stuff required to make the 'magic' happen < 1249694005 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: thats why your ideas i think are fundamentally sound - to express things crudely, you want to 'cut out the middleman' of all the annoying implementation/administrative details of running a computer, by making the upper and lower layers more conceptually unified. < 1249694033 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, as a basic concept that isnt new and in some ways that is what everyone (and every failed and awkward system) was trying to achieve :D < 1249694088 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not criticism, just an acknowledgment of the difficulties of the task and a recognition that smart people have been trying to make sane and sensible systems for a long time < 1249694240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nightmare website: http://farmingdale.edu/lieoc <-- doesn't load Sgeo < 1249694242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1249694355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1249694359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1249694447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i do want to cut out the middleman, I think yours is incidental though < 1249694451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main driver is: < 1249694456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well two things < 1249694466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, we have so much useless work < 1249694467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1249694471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we separate tasks too much < 1249694476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we separate application from application < 1249694477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITS < 1249694480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we separate objects from disk < 1249694482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, the page apparently is a 302 status code, which goes to an HTML page that uses a meta tag to go to the proper place < 1249694487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, check the source? < 1249694489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: and the second, < 1249694497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have too much duplication < 1249694498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many VMs < 1249694501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many garbage collectors < 1249694504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, can't. get a "connection reset during loading" message < 1249694504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many address books < 1249694509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many everythings < 1249694516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so don't even get past HTTP headers I guess < 1249694521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does http://www.farmingdale.edu/campuspages/campusaffiliates/lieoc/index.html work? < 1249694521 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all of those things you are saying sound to me like many of them fit conceptually into the broad idea of 'cut out the middleman' < 1249694523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a result of fixing those two everything fits together < 1249694525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yeah < 1249694527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do < 1249694535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, nop < 1249694538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, link to your toolchain thing anyway? < 1249694541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, or rather, a bit < 1249694564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I get headers but no document < 1249694574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1249694575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200 that is < 1249694587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, note: cookies and javascript are *off* < 1249694589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: even if i can't use it i'm interested < 1249694595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, that may well be it < 1249694598 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 9gridchan.org is my website with tons of plan9 related stuff, a full explanation and context is maybe offtopic for this channel but feel free to ask whatever < 1249694606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not going to turn them on < 1249694616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9gridchan, is that like a 4chan derivative on a grid? < 1249694621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249694626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this #s < 1249694627 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: uh, not really, but sort of, yeah < 1249694652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on earth is it sort of :P < 1249694667 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The css for this page: http://pastie.org/576211 < 1249694671 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its a grid that anyone can connect to so that is chan-like < 1249694689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was referring more to things like 4chan → 7chan and the like < 1249694692 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the chan imageboards are some of the better stuff on the net conceptually, free speech, simple interface, no barrier to entry, etc < 1249694694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distributed pointlessness! < 1249694703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yeah i know all the arguments in favour of them < 1249694741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, you think /b/ is "[one] of the better stuff on the net conceptually"? < 1249694745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1249694749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ad hominem, strawman < 1249694753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lose < 1249694755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah I know what you mean) < 1249694757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1249694759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more strawman than ad hominem) < 1249694762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is a joke :P < 1249694767 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, if you read my actual text above, that isnt what i said, so i think the statement i made was pretty clear < 1249694773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only flaw with your jokes AnMaster < 1249694779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that none of them are ever funny or carry any hint of being jokes. < 1249694782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that I forget ~ < 1249694829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The css for this page: http://pastie.org/576211 <-- and? < 1249694859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you look at it? .style7 ? < 1249694883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not good names. and? < 1249694899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was facepalming at the bad names < 1249694901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, on your website... what is bind -a '#¤' /dev < 1249694907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like encoding error to me < 1249694921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using firefox < 1249694947 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, that does indeed look like an error, lets check the original ns to see what it should be < 1249694959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, and what does the #b and such mean? < 1249694977 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are how plan9 talks about binding device drivers into the namespace, pretty much < 1249694984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1249694997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: isn't /srv mostly used? < 1249694999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's what i saw < 1249695001 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok, yup, thats a weird unicode symbol that clearly has a different visual appearance < 1249695022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, make web server send correct encoding :) < 1249695026 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well /srv is where the user level file servers usually post themselves for stuff to mount, but the kernel level drivers work a bit differently i would say < 1249695047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: so this drawterm stuff, what do i have to do to get it working? < 1249695066 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: from what base are you starting? default bell labs .iso installed into a vm, or ? < 1249695085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have the iso and nothing else < 1249695097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the less friction this takes to get working the better < 1249695111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is plan9... what do you think < 1249695120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: okay, fuck off, seriously < 1249695130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the last hours all you've done is dis plan 9 and other crap < 1249695131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in: it isn't smoothly polished ubuntu. < 1249695137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I like plan9 as I said < 1249695140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read above < 1249695143 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, how much plan9 related spam tech/support do you want in this channel? < 1249695149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like it in the most vaguest, tenuous sense possible < 1249695153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just enough so you can hate on it all the time < 1249695159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i never said i wanted ubuntu; strawman fallacy < 1249695165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it amusing that you think it will work out of box more or less < 1249695168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said i wanted the least frictionful way possible < 1249695170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1249695175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i've used plan 9. it worked out of the box < 1249695178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and did i ever say that? < 1249695179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249695184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said i wanted it working out of the box < 1249695185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, close < 1249695188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1249695189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249695192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not close at all < 1249695194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are truly excelling putting words in my mouth < 1249695198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new heights of strawman < 1249695233 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ironically, i actually provide preconfigured preinstalled plan9 systems that instantiate a full 4 functional node grid on your desktop out of the box, but i only provide that for linux ;) < 1249695245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: impossible, that doesn't fit his biases < 1249695260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, awesome and now I really need to sleep *turns off monitor* < 1249695298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inferno has always confused me < 1249695302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want an OS that can only run virtualised? < 1249695320 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually inferno can also run natively, but that isnt very common except on small devices < 1249695326 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like inferno on the nintendo ds < 1249695328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well w/e < 1249695353 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, you dont like sqweak right? well its not too different from that - or from java in a different way, i mean java is real world popular. < 1249695367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1249695370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java just has a vm underneath < 1249695374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically an implementation detail < 1249695376 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but besides, whats an os, whats software? i think its a false dichotomy < 1249695386 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, think of inferno as the vm implementation for the limbo language < 1249695389 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ever looked at limbo? < 1249695390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely < 1249695395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not making an os, i'm making a system < 1249695405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it boots up and comes with a set of base objects "absolutely free" < 1249695420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i've seen limbo. < 1249695422 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats good, im tired of paying $5 per boot < 1249695426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a pretty boring lang tbh < 1249695463 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent learned it, but a lot of people like it for its concurrency/message passing features i guess - and by 'a lot of people' i mean 'a handful of people with plan9/inferno interests' < 1249695527 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limbo is actually maybe the most 'on topic' thing from the plan9 universe for this channel - well, that and alef of course < 1249695535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1249695547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: how smoothly does plan9 run with qemu/drawterm? < 1249695556 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nicely in my experience, even on moderate hardware < 1249695579 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for more cellular automaton to make into ties. There are only two good ECAs, but I can extend that to size-5 neighborhoods and then the range is almost endless. < 1249695579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu is basically the slowest emulator apart from bochs < 1249695579 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better than with qemu providing the graphics < 1249695579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't using the kqemu thing are you? < 1249695579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't < 1249695579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's linux only < 1249695597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: make a cellular automata whose atoms are cellular automata < 1249695601 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use kqemu on some boxes but not all, and even without it, i get performance that i find acceptable < 1249695605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use a CA to generate CAs < 1249695615 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for all i know qemu on os x is even slower than slow, i dunno < 1249695615 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brain explodes* < 1249695615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: ok. so how easy is drawterm to set up? < 1249695634 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, let me give you the canonical 'how to' link for how to do it from the default install from the .iso, one second < 1249695664 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Configuring_a_standalone_CPU_server/index.html < 1249695683 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is Ye Olde Testamente of how to take your default install and make it a standalone cpu auth server you can drawterm into < 1249695683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how they call it a wiki, it's been read only for like 8945349534 years < 1249695696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway looks irritatingly complicated. < 1249695697 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not read only as a matter of fact < 1249695706 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that is exactly why i made the tools i did, because its ridiculous < 1249695707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i mounted it and couldn't save. < 1249695717 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? hmm... < 1249695722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was a few months ago < 1249695762 0 :Zonbi!n=kidz@75-169-253-196.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249695775 0 :Zonbi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249695789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impatient man < 1249695867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: so, any particular recommendation or should i just set up qemu < 1249695905 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, im hesitant to make any os x recommendations, honestly - i get the sense from reading 9fans that os x is a bit different in what the optimal strategies are < 1249695918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an odd OS < 1249695945 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive found that qemu seems to be most generally reliable plan9 virtualization platform for the oses ive worked with it in, which is various gnu/linux distros, windows xp and vista, and freebsd < 1249695979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big do you recommend i make the disk? < 1249695984 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are going to use qemu, you could try the standalone version of the preinstalled image i distribute btw < 1249695993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that get me over the stock? < 1249696003 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drawterm out of the box, additional configuration work done < 1249696009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds nice < 1249696014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything to emulate a middle mouse button? :P < 1249696024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway link me up < 1249696034 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, doesnt plan9 have something to do that anyway? some key combo or something?i should know this < 1249696042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1249696043 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sphericalharmony.com/plan9/ventigridserver.qcow2.img.tgz < 1249696049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't qcow compressed? < 1249696062 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a .tgz of a single file which is a qcow2 preinstalled hdd image < 1249696076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tar of a single file? < 1249696077 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the meaning of that question "why bother to .tgz it?" < 1249696077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you nuts < 1249696089 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, im not nuts at all! :) want the method for the madness? < 1249696093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no, it's just "isn't qcow = compressed = slow?" < 1249696096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure i guess < 1249696112 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the way qemu handles qcow2 is pretty efficient < 1249696114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qcow is copy on write, not compressed. < 1249696126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1249696131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a few other silly things to maximise sparseness. < 1249696132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.app tells me it's compressed < 1249696132 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, its very simply this - most people want/need to preserve the archival initial copy of the VM < 1249696134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it sucks :P < 1249696153 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you provide a .tgz, the standard command line tar xzf foo.tgz leaves the original .tgz behind unchanged < 1249696170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: don't plan 9 guys oppose hacks < 1249696188 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is very convenient and useful, in comparison to a .gz where the ungzip will annihilate the original, and then youll fuck up your vm since you dont understand plan9 and have to redownload... < 1249696191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: btw does this image use venti < 1249696198 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, not in that standalone version < 1249696202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1249696203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1249696280 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file is badly named, its called 'ventigridserver' because its actually the version of the image that can be used to *host* a venti for other nodes to use < 1249696291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should it be .qcow2.img or just .qcow2 < 1249696292 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesnt do that by default, or use venti itself as its backing store < 1249696304 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc stuff is .qcow2.img < 1249696351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much ram should i allocate? I have 2.5gb < 1249696362 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for drawterm you also need to deal with the port redirections needed to access the vm, im not sure of the details of that in os x - 256mb for the vm is plenty of ram, plenty < 1249696373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do I really need to redirect ports for localhost? < 1249696386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, will anything break if I boot this with graphics? < 1249696398 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vm has to be able to listen on those ports even for localhost - and no, you can boot the image fine as standard graphical vm < 1249696416 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it includes the standard initial terminal/glenda setup from bell labs as an option < 1249696428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no gui? < 1249696436 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in plan9 terminal is GUI < 1249696438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rio started automatically for me when using the iso < 1249696439 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :difference of vocabulary < 1249696447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: acme won't run under the console < 1249696453 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im saying its GUI( < 1249696454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249696455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aieee < 1249696457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it chose for me < 1249696468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i want glenda or gridna? < 1249696475 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either < 1249696481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1249696488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eenie meenie miney mo < 1249696493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glenda < 1249696504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: btw, what's the done plan9 thing for users? < 1249696505 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the base standard setup < 1249696510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee, alggy indowing system < 1249696514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*laggy windowing < 1249696515 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1249696520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, < 1249696532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when using plan 9 it was a pain to get a user running with the ability to administrate < 1249696550 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its not, i can tell you how < 1249696556 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootes is set up on that image though as the admin/root < 1249696565 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add your own user to admin stuff easy though < 1249696589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift+right = middle < 1249696619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, if I can get a user set up here and then drawterm that'd be ideal < 1249696624 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, are we dragging #esoteric too far offtopic? if so i have a channel for my various plan9 projects on here called #plan9chan < 1249696651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, we haven't been on topic for years < 1249696665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly this diversion is rather *extended*, but < 1249696667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, we're more often off topic than on. < 1249696674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude < 1249696680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Actually, we've been on topic on occasion. < 1249696689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But. That's a rare occasion. < 1249696693 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of being off topic, does anyone here do K? < 1249696698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOA < 1249696701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an idler just spoke < 1249696704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do we do whatdowedo < 1249696710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: oklopol does J < 1249696712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oleg? < 1249696714 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that should have happened someday < 1249696715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249696716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that oleg < 1249696727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. Not a demigod, then. < 1249696730 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to spend a few minutes on phone, brb < 1249696734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: more than one person is named Oleg < 1249696739 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm in almost no way mr. Kiselev < 1249696740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: your new name is "inferior oleg" < 1249696783 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, if I've correctly identified the oleg you're talking about, I doubt he's likely to be found on irc < 1249696793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okmij.org < 1249696797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah he doesn't irc. < 1249696838 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah! that's what makes me the /other/ one, right? < 1249696846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the inferior one < 1249696852 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn. < 1249696859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay inferior oleg < 1249696862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just inferior. < 1249696878 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, I'm not arguing. < 1249696893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good. < 1249696900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguing breeds rebellion. < 1249696962 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, I only do saner stuff with ocaml... actually running ocamlrun on bare hardware was about as far as I got... *bursts in tears* < 1249696972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you did that? awesome. < 1249697026 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, back to k... there are many j programmers, but I just need some place to ask stupid k questions. < 1249697070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really get why someone would use k over j < 1249697113 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it used(s) das u-boot for the dirty init work, and worked more or less when run in the orienting the board in the right direction. < 1249697128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orienting the ... board? < 1249697139 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was about ocamlrun) < 1249697162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i repeat my question < 1249697197 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it was an arm9 thing with fpga, but I never got to actually use it, though the whole project was about playing with metaocaml < 1249697271 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re k over j, why someone would use airbuses over sea liners? < 1249697309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you should be using a interstellar spaceship instead. < 1249697315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: begging the question < 1249697349 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j is an executable mathematical notation that is particularly efficient in number theory applications, k is just a cool general-purpose functional language < 1249697361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ermmmmmm < 1249697364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the languages are hugely similar < 1249697368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what i've seen < 1249697465 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have very limited knowledge of j, but from what I know its set of primitives is much larger, the syntax is both more powerful and more complicated < 1249697563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j has more primitives?! < 1249697566 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how many people use j as a general-purpose language, as they use the usual ocaml, haskell or c < 1249697567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its vocab fits on one page of 3 cols < 1249697583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, C++: [](){}(); < 1249697590 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc yes < 1249697606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wat < 1249697607 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg things like +:, >: etc.? < 1249697615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: all of it < 1249697626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's a noöp. < 1249697632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh C++ not C < 1249697640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1249697691 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, K doesn't have them, it has about 50 primitives < 1249697710 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/vocabul.htm seems to list slightly more. < 1249697748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1249697755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure k has more actual functions than 50 < 1249697758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just maybe in libraries < 1249697759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1249697767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the typical k program isn't just going to be compositions of 50 funcs < 1249697790 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye, I'm not counting things like trigonometric functions (yes, K has no o.!) < 1249697853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k seems very much more secret and corporate < 1249697875 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed it is < 1249697885 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not counting the fact that it is no longer marketed < 1249697897 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uggggg 20 minutes of trying to explain the basics of networking to a teenage kid trying to freeload off his neighbor's wireless with a 10 year old laptop < 1249697920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: why bother? < 1249697935 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i was trying to avoid it, its my gf's kid < 1249697954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249697957 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, K has no trains! < 1249697959 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no forks. < 1249697967 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that i dont even use windows enough to know how to access the networking control panel doesnt help, either < 1249697967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: shit sux < 1249697967 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249697977 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just C with lisp semantics and apl syntax... < 1249697996 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-1.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249698048 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't give an objective comparison as I've never written anything big enough in J < 1249698075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j doesn't do big programs < 1249698101 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249698150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://freetexthost.com/rvsaogqp2y ← woah man. < 1249698155 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm taking that into account when using the term 'big'. I think my largest ever J program was 3 lines. < 1249698200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: heh :) < 1249698259 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was that big because I never quite got how to do simple file i/o in J the right way. < 1249698450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: 'j for c programmers' might help and is included in the docs < 1249698457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has file io in the first example < 1249698623 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it didn't help me, but maybe I was just too sleepy when I was reading jfc < 1249698644 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I needed was basically read some numbers from a text file, output some numbers < 1249698653 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. acm icpc-style i/o < 1249698657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first example has that < 1249698785 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, honestly, I don't remeber what my problem was, maybe it was about parsing the string for integers, but I remeber seeing that example (is http://jsoftware.com/help/jforc/continuing_to_write_in_j.htm#_Toc191734364 what you're talking about?). < 1249698829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuh uh < 1249698846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jsoftware.com/help/jforc/a_first_look_at_j_programs.htm < 1249698972 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems the magic I haven't had mastered at that time was a proper ReadFile ;-) < 1249699032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: eh? < 1249699127 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall some problems with CRLF confusing J or something... meh, I can't find my code. < 1249699146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you using crlf :P < 1249699180 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has CRLF on highlight. < 1249699183 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's using CRLF? < 1249699183 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVIL < 1249699192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249699196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it on highlight? < 1249699207 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that I can harass people who use CRLF < 1249699224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249699224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CR+LF < 1249699225 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must rid ourselves of this vile plague. < 1249699226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CR, LF < 1249699229 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc CRLF in J is a list of CR and LF < 1249699229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 10 < 1249699236 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kidding, I don't actually have CRLF on highlight :P < 1249699240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: lawl < 1249699246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about classic mac os and its CR < 1249699256 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes me go ":/" < 1249699301 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In quotes, no less. < 1249699301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh in 1983 it wouldn't have been as crazy < 1249699380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i had something queued up to say but i forgot. < 1249699405 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh? < 1249699408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249699410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exciting eh < 1249699420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: incidentally does plan 9 have any text antialiasing mechanisms? < 1249699431 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can download some different subpixel hinted fonts if you want < 1249699440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... encoded in the font? < 1249699442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1249699492 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i honestly dont know the details, but i know if you want smoothed fonts, theres some stuff you can download - im oblivious to fonts having grown up on 40 column all caps displays and thinking that all modern displays post 2000 look fine < 1249699526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whacks mycroftiv with the typography/display nerd bat < 1249699531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bat that you whack people with. < 1249699583 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do know that the plan9 fonts that many disdain are in fact also NONFREE for some bizarre reason and that one traditional annoyance of various things is that the fonts arent freely redistributable separate from plan 9 < 1249699645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Learn typography! < 1249699656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Shut up, X11 user. < 1249699661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also. What the crap? Bitmap fonts? < 1249699663 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i make plenty of typos! < 1249699668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I at least freely admit it's shitty. < 1249699668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you really loved typography, you'd sacrifice every other value for it. < 1249699675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, freetype, not X11. < 1249699708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Idea: Display TeX. < 1249699709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249699717 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: bitmap fonts don't need any antialiasing.. just get a higher resolution display. :-) < 1249699734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: TeX's actual font rendering isn't that good < 1249699741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: (a) that makes them incy wincy < 1249699751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) i'd spend $$$ for a 600dpi display, hells yeah < 1249699762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, but that's the only thing it doesn't do all that well. < 1249699768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: unicode < 1249699782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, implementing smart quotes by making `` and '' freakin' ligatures < 1249699784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Straight TeX doesn't do that. < 1249699791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs XeTeX. < 1249699792 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard TeX doesn't really make coffee as well. < 1249699798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: tru dat < 1249699865 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, leaving for the weekend. thanks for the time. < 1249699873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ĝis. < 1249699880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye olegfink < 1249700428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1249700432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249701256 0 :amca!n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1249702924 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@121-73-162-77.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249703308 0 :alexlyoko94!n=alexlyok@64.111.236.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249703322 0 :alexlyoko94!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249704780 0 :xim_!n=barrett@97.94.209.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249704818 0 :xim_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249704899 0 :Sgeo[Circe]!n=Sgeo[Cir@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249705012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo_ < 1249705017 0 :Sgeo[Circe]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1249705033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo[Circe] < 1249705037 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1249707067 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249707067 0 :Sgeo[Circe]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello oerjan, and welcome to #esoteric < 1249707118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello botty one < 1249707419 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249707419 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-1.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249707419 0 :Sgeo[Circe]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello bsmntbombdood, and welcome to #esoteric < 1249707425 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barf < 1249707786 0 :Sgeo[Circe]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a client with a very easy scripting API < 1249707802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for that YOU DIE. < 1249707808 0 :Sgeo[Circe]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the least powerful one ever conceived, but still < 1249707813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1249707839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code for autogreet: http://pastie.org/576319 < 1249708146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..no comments? < 1249708168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Turing-complete? < 1249708180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1249708187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that apply to an API? < 1249708198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it a valid question at all times. < 1249708205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL TIMES. < 1249708269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night all < 1249708293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good turing-complete night < 1249708529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More off-topicness: I have been reading the comic "Sandman". < 1249708530 0 :Sgeo[Circe]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Circe: http://circe.nick125.com/" < 1249708536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis truly grand. < 1249708780 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Im curious: are you turing complete? < 1249708818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not a valid question < 1249708855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "Is it" is essential. "are you" does not work. < 1249708927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you for that, oerjan. < 1249709077 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, you right. < 1249709091 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is it turing complete? < 1249709102 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "it" is pikhq < 1249709154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in the same way as 1 is even, where 1 = 2 < 1249709183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amca: For certain values of Turing. < 1249709195 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249709445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later, in a non-computable way" < 1249709688 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249709688 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249709688 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249709688 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249709689 0 :Warrigal_!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1249709690 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1249709692 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@203-214-111-155.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1249709699 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@70-58-88-38.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249709841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249714209 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249714213 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249714818 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it" < 1249718399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249718400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249720384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1249720790 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Farewell" < 1249722066 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249722625 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-8-203.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249722801 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249722815 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-8-203.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249722926 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249726308 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249727170 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-142-060.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249727550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm looking for more cellular automaton to make into ties. There are only two good ECAs, but I can extend that to size-5 neighborhoods and then the range is almost endless. <-- ECAs? size-5 of what? < 1249727555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just woke up btw < 1249728834 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249728929 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249729066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECA ("elementary cellular automaton") is at least what Wolfram calls the "rule N" things. Which have a size-3 neighborhood, but you could easily imagine adding the next two neighbors too. < 1249730855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1249730909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the number of possible rules limited btw? < 1249730924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the same size of neighborhood I mean < 1249731638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, of course. There are only 256 of the elementary ones, for one thing. < 1249731898 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249732116 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249733967 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249736641 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you disregard trivial permutations of other rules, there are only 64 ECAs. < 1249737500 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-47.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249737528 0 :morenel!n=artic@unaffiliated/romani JOIN :#esoteric < 1249737529 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249737533 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats that language rhat uses indentation for program flow? < 1249737538 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frightens the shit out of me < 1249737547 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python? < 1249737581 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not brainfuck? < 1249737586 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249737587 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes pyton < 1249738443 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python: widely considered the most terrifying language < 1249738508 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's pretty swell < 1249738526 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you don't stop to think < 1249738531 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the terrible secret of whitespace < 1249738535 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is hiding in it < 1249738589 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am here to protect you from the terrible secret of whitespace < 1249738597 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whitespace has a terrible power < 1249738623 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249739136 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249739768 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249740041 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249740077 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1249740083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:03:59 The code for autogreet: http://pastie.org/576319 < 1249740083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:09:06 ..no comments? < 1249740083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody carse < 1249740084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cares < 1249740085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa morenel < 1249740088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen you here before etc < 1249740094 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok hi < 1249740105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my logreading has not yet seen you < 1249740113 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249740116 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1249740118 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im new then? < 1249740189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gathered :P < 1249740199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python frightens you? well me too but for less trivial reasons < 1249740204 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249740212 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249740472 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249740473 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ophidiophobia? < 1249740473 0 :MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-47.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249740535 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-47.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249740657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what < 1249740660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wat < 1249740796 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ꊀ < 1249741339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: a U man with wavy arms and a penis? < 1249741357 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249741408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it zoomed in < 1249741613 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249741737 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1249743249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: well? < 1249743421 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249743901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14:13] lament: ꊀ < 1249743905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is the letter called wat or something < 1249743943 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249743953 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:13? < 1249743964 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you live in the past, man < 1249743983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'YI SYLLABLE WAT' (U+A280) < 1249743991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i know < 1249743993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pasty paste < 1249743995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pasta < 1249743996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :past < 1249745045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Best source code ever... [ASCIIPIC?] http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2001/williams.c < 1249745048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW YOU CAN ADD WHITESPACE < 1249745051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::OOOOO < 1249745153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow-ass US mirrors... http://www.de.ioccc.org/2001/williams.c < 1249745256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares, it's a boring entry < 1249745281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's cute but simple ASCII art < 1249745345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but shit like that can be automated for chrissake < 1249745386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence "simple" < 1249745397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not dissing it < 1249745402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's at the top of proggit < 1249745422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1249745513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sux :P < 1249745546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been worse stuff at the top of proggit < 1249745639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1249746994 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249747839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There's much better IOCCC entries. < 1249747843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1249747851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw let's start using there're < 1249747852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not the bit of code that calculates Pi based on its own area? < 1249747854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of there's → there are < 1249747889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the bootstrapping subset-of-C compiler? < 1249748703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fabrice bellard allowed < 1249748704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he < 1249748706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s just too clever < 1249748728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there're a problem with that idea < 1249748732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1249748760 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't swear. < 1249748782 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249748797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: umm care to clarify are you just on crack < 1249748800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or are < 1249748867 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249748947 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249749375 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249749516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : whats that language rhat uses indentation for program flow? < 1249749522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell too < 1249749533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if by "flow" you mean "structure" < 1249749561 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically < 1249749567 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every good language there is! < 1249749575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249749577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Not quite. < 1249749583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... There exists F#. < 1249749611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now accuses pikhq of being John D. Harrop < 1249749656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very probable, i know, he wouldn't be able to mention F# that rarely in this channel < 1249749671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah. < 1249749682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he wouldn't be derogatory concerning the language. < 1249749692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that was derogatory? < 1249749694 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Whitespace count? < 1249749719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Every good language there is!" "Not quite. There exists F#." < 1249749733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm at least under the impression that F# has indentation-significant syntax. < 1249749736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok so F# _is_ indentation sensitive, but not good? i don't know it, so i interpreted it the other possible way < 1249749771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: probably < 1249749774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's a .Net "functional" programming language. < 1249749783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, pikhq. pikhq. < 1249749790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F# = OCaml for .NET. < 1249749798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't indentation-significant. < 1249749805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i didn't mean "don't know" in the never heard about it sense. i just haven't seen the syntax. < 1249749807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Okay, then. < 1249749807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harrop is a retard, but stop the FUD :P < 1249749822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F# is still an awful language, though. < 1249749832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, now? < 1249749839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just OCaml with access to .NET stuff. < 1249749849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing spectacular, but I find it hard to hate. < 1249749853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You got .Net in my functional language!" "You got your functional language in my .Net!" "YAY!" < 1249749864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I find the concept distasteful. ;) < 1249749864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a chimera, i guess. since ocaml already sort of is. < 1249749873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OCaml is object-oriented already. < 1249749873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it adds .NET to that < 1249749879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binding .NET does not muddy the language at all. < 1249749900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: My complaints are two-fold: OCaml, and .NET. < 1249749906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i doubt the type systems are compatible. < 1249749911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just hate every language that isn't Haskell. < 1249749921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *every* language! < 1249749931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... There's something to be said for the untyped lambda calculus. < 1249749934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever actually used OCaml < 1249749935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249749936 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate every language that is or isn't Haskell < 1249749945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm just being silly on IRC. < 1249749962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall reading that F# does type inference somewhat unintuitively for classes < 1249750003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since hindley-milner does not go well with subtyping) < 1249750023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtyping is nice. < 1249750033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want subtyping a lot when Haskelling. < 1249750357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lambert is being very sensible today < 1249751655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249752457 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249752945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249753024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooooooooo < 1249753030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $// < 1249753180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wo < 1249753180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1249753181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (S)::^(~:(o)~^~:^):^ < 1249753181 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ...too much output! < 1249753184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i dreamed something < 1249753188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then forgot it was a dream later < 1249753188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249753359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i do that a lot < 1249753490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you are already forgetting that this is a dream < 1249753498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, trippy < 1249754382 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249754899 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249754960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249754965 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1249754982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now on ext4. < 1249755887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am an atheist who wants to become religious again. Ask me anything." // grr @ people who don't make a distinction between dogmatic atheism and rationalism < 1249755888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1249755889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1249755890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: awesome < 1249755899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're running ext3 except with extents! < 1249755905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1249755911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're running ext2 except with journaling and extents < 1249755959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And btrees. < 1249755966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru dat < 1249757124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This haughty infidel says a cross revealed "O, never you must stray to a roaring tessellation saying 'What is this... holy ass! THISACRONYMSTARTSWITHAT!'" | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249758002 0 :JoelyWoely!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249758037 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249758044 0 :JoelyWoely!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CESSMASTER < 1249758389 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i love you. < 1249758403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why thank you augur < 1249758444 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thae topic is brilliant < 1249758517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, i wrote that in february i think :P < 1249758557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite being nearly unable to type due to the biting cold < 1249758567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249758579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angkor < 1249758598 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oejan: you stole that from me :| < 1249758608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stole what? < 1249758615 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying angkor in response to wat < 1249758632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angkor in response to wat < 1249758633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUE ME < 1249758634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty obvious < 1249758640 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thats what i thought < 1249758643 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but noone fucking gets it < 1249758647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually guessed oerjan would do it this time :) < 1249758651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i had to google it first time. < 1249758658 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i say thom < 1249758673 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because angkor thom is both more obscure and more interestng than angkor wat < 1249758690 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that just confuses people. :D < 1249758708 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMETIMES i say "soup" and people are like "huh?" < 1249758713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i clarify with "wat soup" < 1249758717 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're still confused < 1249758725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: the OS X system sound "Sosumi" (so sue me) was a reference to Apple Corps v. Apple Computer; it's a xylophone, so technically that counts as distributing music (tenuously) < 1249758735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Proof from Infallopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosumi) < 1249758739 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i explain that its a kind of soup form around angkor wat in cambodia, used to greet people < 1249758762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, really? < 1249758779 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phallopedia < 1249758815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no such thing, says google < 1249758824 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no such thing as what < 1249758833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phallopedia < 1249758854 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249758855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infallopedia < 1249758858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phallopedia < 1249758861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's make Phalluspedia < 1249758875 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1249758875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an encyclopedia about cocks < 1249758875 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phallus < 1249758875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and roosters < 1249758881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats ehird for mangling greek morphology < 1249758887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1249758895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgot the swatter -----### < 1249758896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* augur's phallus swats oerjan for etc < 1249758899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249758901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zen swatter < 1249758921 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1249758938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zwatter < 1249758947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .... I'm so edgy because I use the wrong number of dots < 1249758983 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zwitter < 1249759024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zwikipedia < 1249759034 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zwicky < 1249759062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with Twitter, I think/is that though anecdotal evidence/is common as a sink/there is a lack of prudence/and I consider it rude s < 1249759066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ense/to cut off a poem on the brink. < 1249759072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ WORST POEM EVER < 1249759103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also weird rhyming scheme; ABAsortofBBA < 1249759132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell length "The problem with Twitter, I think/is that though anecdotal evidence/is common as a sink/there is a lack of prudence/and I consider it rude sense/to cut off a poem on the brink." < 1249759133 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :176 < 1249759150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell length "The problem with Twitter, I think/is that though anecdotal evidence/is common as a sink/there is a lack of prudence/and I consider it rude s" < 1249759151 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :140 < 1249759165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitch. That was the joke. < 1249759165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna check that < 1249759169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249759173 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Michael-Jackson-Staples-Center/photo//090807/482/014ee302e9be4f0a89a4eeca91a2e595//s:/ap/20090808/ap_en_ot/us_michael_jackson_insurance;_ylt=AgTPYYGRfmU9P0ms7L75FsZY24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTE5dmZwOWFyBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl9yX3RvcF9waG90bwRzbGsDaW50aGlzaGFuZG91 << look at me i'm michael jackson and i rehearse in CG environments that are photoshopped poorly! < 1249759223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that his lips < 1249759310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day photoshopping will get so good that no one manages to detect it, at least officially. unofficially mental hospitals start filling up with CG experts who claim they can detect photoshopping artifacts in reality. < 1249759323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249759393 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan have i told you my reasoning for why the world might be a simulation? x3 < 1249759439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly not < 1249759460 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL < 1249759497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :succinct reasoning. < 1249759508 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long story short, 3, maybe 4 of the features of the universe's fundamental design are the sort of thing you'd add to a large scale universe simulation to make it easier to computer < 1249759510 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compute* < 1249759574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur < 1249759576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu < 1249759578 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249759581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simulation argument is wrong. < 1249759593 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably is, but even so its fun < 1249759651 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1249759660 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are these three maybe four features < 1249759682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur being able to spout bullshit < 1249759686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people taking the simulation argument seriously < 1249759692 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a really good feature < 1249759692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :support the factory union < 1249759692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus distracting them from actually thinking and looking < 1249759701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would cause them to find all the flaws in the approximations < 1249759705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are two. < 1249759731 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing: non-simultaneity, a maximum speed on motion, and probabilistic particle location < 1249759762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur that adds up to five < 1249759764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you count < 1249759768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just had to add one or two more. < 1249759773 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1249759781 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think he's saying I'm the fourth fundamental feature of the universe < 1249759787 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he used a colon instead of a comma < 1249759788 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1249759791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249759808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another argument against the simulation argument: why the heck would you want to simulate this universe? < 1249759817 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "simulating what?" < 1249759819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stealth terrorists from uranus < 1249759823 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer appears to be < 1249759826 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a newtonian universe < 1249759829 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is adorable < 1249759831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they haven't intervened, they've just run one presumably not entirely unlike their own (they couldn't imagine simulating something too different from their universe; almost certainly) < 1249759833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1249759835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is the point < 1249759836 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing: what do you mean? < 1249759841 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : those are two. < 1249759841 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pthing: non-simultaneity, a maximum speed on motion, and probabilistic particle location < 1249759850 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relativity demolished the first two, quantum the second < 1249759858 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1249759860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THAT LEAVES THE THIRD < 1249759861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249759861 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you remove these "easier to compute" features < 1249759865 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "demolished"? < 1249759876 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are left with a 19th century cosmos < 1249759890 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont follow what you're saying, pthing < 1249759894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this universe would be way way way easier to simulate if we did one thing < 1249759895 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the more-real-than-real universe that the real universe is just a computational simulation of < 1249759897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELIMINATE QUANTUM MECAHNICS < 1249759899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mechanics < 1249759913 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no apparently it is a simplification? < 1249759918 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i dont think it would < 1249759921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classical mechanics gets like 99.999999999% of shit right, and fuck the rest < 1249759932 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you'd have to actually calculate all particle motion and so forth < 1249759932 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, it's easy < 1249759933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we would just try experiments and conclude yep that classical shit is the bomb < 1249759951 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you point to those as features that are put in to make the universe easier to compute < 1249759952 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its far easier to just leave particle positions as probabilistic things that dont have to be calculated all the time < 1249759961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude augur < 1249759961 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing: yes, i do. < 1249759964 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if they're put in < 1249759965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know anything about QM < 1249759968 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means in the hyper-real universe < 1249759969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way that shit simplifies vs classical < 1249759972 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not there, right? < 1249759984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap < 1249759986 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i think it does! < 1249759996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: because you're not a physicist, you're a linguist on crack < 1249759997 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing: who knows. the hyper-real might not even be like our universe at all! < 1249760003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU < 1249760007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're stupid. < 1249760008 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually i was a physics major before i was a linguistics major < 1249760016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see why you switched < 1249760019 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, well whatever, *a* hyper-real universe that our universe is simulating, right? < 1249760031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: whoa you mixed that up there < 1249760035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sentence is freaky shit. < 1249760046 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont worry little one these ideas are VERY HARD < 1249760054 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the simulation hypothesis is correct, sure! < 1249760058 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real scienticians are afraid of them < 1249760059 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so! < 1249760067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: dude dude you said that our universe is simulating our simulator < 1249760068 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hyper-real universe is, in fact, Newtonian < 1249760069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must have been a typo :P < 1249760076 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe! < 1249760081 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no no < 1249760084 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this whole idea < 1249760086 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just a Scheme fan < 1249760098 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :METACIRCULAR UNIVERSE < 1249760105 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is just the same thing as people who thought quantum mechanics and relativity were funny tricks < 1249760112 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Newton got it all right via unaided reason < 1249760137 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing, iiii dont think so. you're assuming that the "hyperreal universe" is newtonian, when it could very well be completely different and non-newtonian < 1249760143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur < 1249760144 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how! < 1249760148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop right there for one second augur < 1249760153 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hyper-real universe is like our universe < 1249760154 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its a mistake to assume that the only two options are newtonian and relativoquantumic < 1249760155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want you to do some thinking for me < 1249760157 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minus these computational aids < 1249760159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur < 1249760160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur < 1249760162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up Pthing < 1249760163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up augur < 1249760166 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why would you assume that it's like our universe at all? :o < 1249760171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT UP < 1249760173 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: im listening, talk. jesus. < 1249760176 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well because that is by definition < 1249760186 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying our universe is simulating the hyperpeople's universe < 1249760188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: give me the mechanics of a universe that are consistent, result in complex patterns, and are relatively stable < 1249760190 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just *a* hyperuniverse < 1249760196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make them totally unlike anything we've ever dreamt of < 1249760197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO < 1249760210 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant. < 1249760217 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and *the particular* hyperuniverse our computer is simulating appears to be our universe - computational flaws < 1249760218 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1249760220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, YOU LOSE < 1249760220 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtonian! < 1249760237 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: congratulations, i dont < 1249760242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249760243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you do < 1249760246 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing: i dont get what you're saying < 1249760254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lost in fact as soon as you said "the simulation argument" < 1249760254 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what don't you get < 1249760263 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what universe you're talking about, for one < 1249760269 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you said it first :D < 1249760298 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am talking about the universe that the hyperpeople want to learn things about to which our universe is a computational simulation < 1249760309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur stop embarrassing yourself < 1249760327 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1249760329 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1249760343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperpurple people eaters < 1249760348 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing, no no when i said its a simulation i just mean simulated, not a simulation of /something/ < 1249760353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense, hyperpeople just make huge simulation projects of wildly different universes that still requires oodles of computation FOR FUN! < 1249760359 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but that's implicit! < 1249760365 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't just have A Simulation < 1249760366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're three year old bobby's first universe < 1249760367 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the same way that like, The Sims is a simulation, but its not really a simulation of our universe < 1249760371 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is < 1249760373 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i eman, i guess in some sense it is < 1249760373 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1249760384 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a simulation of a particularly human-sized suburban american part of it < 1249760387 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas! < 1249760392 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all simulations are simulations of preexisting things! < 1249760396 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name one! < 1249760411 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Myst! < 1249760417 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was a particularly fun game, btw. < 1249760417 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, that's a puzzle game < 1249760419 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1249760419 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1249760422 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simulation < 1249760424 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a simulated environment! < 1249760426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249760427 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249760429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you lose augur < 1249760430 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up augur < 1249760432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you massively lose. < 1249760450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ. < 1249760466 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing < 1249760472 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch me not shut up < 1249760482 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know why i wont shut up? because your opinion is irrelevant < 1249760482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually he can make you shut up. < 1249760483 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just say it < 1249760485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool feature of irc clients. < 1249760488 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that make you feel? < 1249760493 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing that you're irrelevant? < 1249760497 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I think the universe is a simulation by some hyperpeople of a newtonian universe" < 1249760509 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont, actually < 1249760514 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"slobber slobber sir isaac newton slobber slobber" < 1249760522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newton baby <3 < 1249760531 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing you're so silly < 1249760538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow convincing < 1249760541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe you now augur < 1249760544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have it etched in stone < 1249760546 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe what? < 1249760550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"opposers you're so silly" < 1249760559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— augur, founder of the hyperpeoplenewtonianquantumosimulatron theory < 1249760564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :praise be < 1249760569 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing isnt even opposing anything < 1249760578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he isn't? < 1249760580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this opossum is ur-elephant < 1249760602 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, seeing as how im not saying the universe is a simulation, no < 1249760610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1249760613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what the fuck ARE you saying < 1249760614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UMM < 1249760622 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should read, ehird < 1249760633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: isn't that what he said? < 1249760637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm fairly sure < 1249760637 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been reading < 1249760638 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i admit < 1249760639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what he fucking said. < 1249760641 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said like half an hour ago that the universe isnt a simulation. < 1249760645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249760646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you did not < 1249760647 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249760648 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know what you *are* saying < 1249760648 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1249760661 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from your points aren't very good < 1249760668 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here look, ehird < 1249760668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: if you can't communicate with someone of any intelligence, that's your problem < 1249760671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the listener's < 1249760679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the simulation argument is wrong. < 1249760679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it probably is, but even so its fun < 1249760679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come back when you can state in a sentence WHAT YOU ARE SAYING < 1249760686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATS THAT? ME AGREEING WITH YOU EHIRD? < 1249760689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally for the purpose of argument, < 1249760691 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1249760693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we assume you believe what you're arguing for < 1249760704 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1249760706 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1249760711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, "Devil's advocate: Nazis rock" "No they don't, Nazis don't rock, you're stupid" "I NEVER SAID NAZIS ROCK" < 1249760720 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1249760724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...that's what you're arguing for." < 1249760732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No it's not, I said half an hour ago that nazis don't rock" < 1249760735 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really ti < 1249760736 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1249760738 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird shut up < 1249760747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm proud to have never made a good analogy in my life. < 1249760779 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KNEEWAYS < 1249760791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑a < 1249760792 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing, stop telling people to shut up. < 1249760797 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249760823 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i just realized, both pthing and ehird are in england < 1249760823 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1249760829 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and theyre both homosexuals! < 1249760831 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1249760841 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok, ehird is 13, not a homosexual < 1249760843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm actually Pthing. < 1249760845 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1249760845 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1249760855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing is gay because, pee thing, you see < 1249760857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it refers to a penis. < 1249760858 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1249760862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu < 1249760876 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthing, its "om". your mantra sucks. < 1249760885 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get with the program, gosh < 1249760886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the skeptic's mantra < 1249760890 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1249760893 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry on then! < 1249760905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY FUCK 360 DEGREE HOLOGRAPHIC DISPLAY < 1249760905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2VusJwGTQQ < 1249760965 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its still got a spinning component tho :( < 1249760988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1249760990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1249760992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also who cares < 1249760995 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its got a spinning mirror < 1249761001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what < 1249761004 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249761007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must spin fast enough to work < 1249761013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get your head chopped off, your own fucking fault < 1249761018 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've had spinning-surface "holograms" for ages < 1249761022 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 20 years or something < 1249761048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who fucking cares, it looks awesome < 1249761052 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1249761052 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1249761059 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its been looking awesome for 20 years or something! < 1249761073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add some tactile gloves to that and you've got the most awesome "futuristic" computer ever < 1249761090 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, one that you cant actually touch because your hand will get fucked up < 1249761094 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure < 1249761099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err why < 1249761106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mirrors aren't actually in the hologram are they < 1249761111 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they are < 1249761114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249761114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that < 1249761117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hologram reflects off the mirror < 1249761125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was like < 1249761128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a circular chamber < 1249761131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mirror spins around the edges < 1249761135 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249761135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :projecting it into the middle < 1249761144 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is an interesting idea < 1249761157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to spin really fast though < 1249761166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that'd be uber noisy < 1249761176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it should work < 1249761183 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itd be difficult to achieve, i think < 1249761189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and itd be pretty big < 1249761202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249761208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a mirror spinning really fast be equivalent to uh < 1249761210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one big mirror < 1249761212 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and youd have to look down at it < 1249761227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: not if you put them in the (transparnet) ceiling and floor < 1249761229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*transparent < 1249761231 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mirror spins around its center, so that its pointing at different places throughout its spin < 1249761234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the walls < 1249761236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then voila! 3d. < 1249761242 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so a big room then < 1249761247 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be veeerry tricky < 1249761266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: just move the mirrors with magic < 1249761269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic can do it fast enough! < 1249761270 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1249761281 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can it hold the mirror glass together, thats the question! < 1249761297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249761314 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a planetarium-like thing at some university thats intended for something like that < 1249761317 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a TED talk about it < 1249761326 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt use holography < 1249761335 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at the scale and distance used, it doesnt matter much < 1249761337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, that + big circular room + antigravity + tactile glove thingies + huge fucking earmuffs to block out all the awful noise from the spinning and levitation = BEST INTERFACE EVER < 1249761371 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like the gunnery interface in that one Babylon 5 movie < 1249761424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas it is not easy to maneuver in the kind of antigravity that doesn't involve a very fast plane < 1249761437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed that kind too; if you could just sort of speed up movements it'd be fine < 1249761439 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LEP#Results < 1249761440 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA < 1249761442 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1249761444 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats hilarious < 1249761479 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN TIDES < 1249761481 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN LAKES < 1249761482 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN TRAINS < 1249761486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it in space < 1249761487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 0k < 1249761487 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUININ MAH SPERMENTS < 1249761490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*K < 1249761494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no interference at all! < 1249761507 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but then the alien space ships will fuck it up! < 1249761508 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur : I remember that story < 1249761519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_, you work in the cern area right? < 1249761526 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My quantum physics teacher told us < 1249761528 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah < 1249761528 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you just contract out to nantes? < 1249761531 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even close < 1249761545 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although he just told us about the train, though < 1249761584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll probably be simpler to make good VR than to do the awesome interface :P < 1249761594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: probably. < 1249761602 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen Lawnmower Man? < 1249761635 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it about the retard who gains superpowers? < 1249761636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i saw it when i was a kiddie < 1249761643 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah: not quite < 1249761645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: if i'm thinking about the same movie, yes < 1249761650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not superpowers but < 1249761653 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retarded kid used in experiments with VR to boost intelligence < 1249761666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no don't call them experiments with vr < 1249761667 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, he makes a lawnmower in some dude's mind! < 1249761668 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sequel he ends up creating a massive virtual world where people can upload their minds < 1249761670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it was is flashing images < 1249761674 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not super intelligence < 1249761675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and patterns < 1249761680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that made him clever < 1249761681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1249761682 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's mind warping < 1249761686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by playing a video game < 1249761702 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game they played was a lot like the pre-release version of Wipeout, oddly < 1249761710 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks pretty interesting < 1249761712 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh, wipe < 1249761713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wipeout is a good game < 1249761726 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if youve never seen the pre-release version, check out the Hackers movie < 1249761727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm i dunno if i played wipeout < 1249761729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1249761734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no i'm never watching that movie < 1249761736 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what wipeout is < 1249761744 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game they play on the big tv is the prerelased wipeout < 1249761746 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww ehird why not? < 1249761750 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fun! < 1249761819 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1249761826 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirds worried that hes going to start thinking that hacking involves lots of pretty pictures on old mac laptops < 1249761830 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1249761835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249761859 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when everyone knows that it involves lots of pretty pictures on new ubuntu+compiz fusion laptops! < 1249761890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't call them laptops any more augur < 1249761894 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry < 1249761896 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notebooks < 1249761898 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portables < 1249761899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas the lap is now obsolete as NOTEBOOKS are < 1249761903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the enemies < 1249761905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of your sperm. < 1249761909 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1249761909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spermemies. < 1249761914 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate my sperm anyway. < 1249761917 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn sperm < 1249761936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell they actually like to be on your lap because they get all hot < 1249761936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REPUBLICAN RETARDS THINK THAT OBAMA IS PROPOSING MAKING SOYLENT GREEN REALITY. D': < 1249761948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sounds like a modest proposal to me. < 1249761967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Quite. < 1249761991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR2Jh2i7JgY Wow. < 1249761993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not parody.) < 1249762100 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :americans are stupid < 1249762104 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a general fact < 1249762116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're such a bitch, bitch. < 1249762119 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :republicans as much as democrats < 1249762129 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but i'm your bitch li < 1249762130 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;o < 1249762138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitch li? < 1249762145 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo, nigga < 1249762153 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :li is one character left of ;o < 1249762172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I'm neither. The Democrats are too right for my tastes. < 1249762181 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im neither too < 1249762198 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only because i favor the destruction of the whole political system as it currently exists. :D < 1249762204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, there? I have a plan9 installer question: How do I get it to use Swedish keyboard layout. I forgot since last time I did a plan9 in qemu < 1249762250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in the installer you don't, afaik. < 1249762254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Install it first. < 1249762260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure it was possible < 1249762264 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys: $100/£50 for the first person who can figure out what this translaiton SHOULD have looked like: < 1249762265 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :آڈولف میركلے KFC died of her father when took his family business توجدید on the lines while it too much development soon . < 1249762271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also where is / on US layout? And + < 1249762279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I like to fuck goats < 1249762284 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: close! < 1249762286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: / is after . < 1249762295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwertyuiop[] (either enter or \) < 1249762297 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is infact supposed to have been "When Adolf Merckle took charge of his family's business after the death of his father, he greatly improved the business very quickly through a process of modernization." < 1249762302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfghjkl;' < 1249762306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe \ here < 1249762309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249762310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zxcvbnm,./ < 1249762311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1249762315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top row shifted: < 1249762317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and + ? < 1249762320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!@#$%^&*()_+ < 1249762325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unshifted < 1249762330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234567890-= < 1249762397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1249762406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, don't do venti. < 1249762413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use fossil. < 1249762424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you have a RAID with a buncha disks. < 1249762446 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll raid your disks alright < 1249762460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to try venti that is why I'm doing this :P < 1249762469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, that's stupid. < 1249762474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1249762492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you don't have a lot of disk, and venti/fossil isn't exactly the most compact storage mechanism. < 1249762511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 GB disk image. True not that much < 1249762513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fossils are too thinly spread out < 1249762523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi < 1249762540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1249762555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck the screen dimming thingy in ubuntu btw. it doesn't work well < 1249762567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't actually have a spare x86/BIOS box anywhere < 1249762644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. it plan9 cd doesn't even boot under virtualbox < 1249762695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, with the ICH6 IDE controller (not the default one) it does boot (very slowly) but then freezes when it tries to start the GUI < 1249762706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sata bith < 1249762708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitch < 1249762714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also use his 9grid image < 1249762719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried sata too. didn't work well < 1249762719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the install iso < 1249762724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what he told me to do at least < 1249762729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what was the url now again < 1249762734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was qemu one < 1249762750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sphericalharmony.com/plan9/gridtoolsplus.tgz < 1249762756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sphericalharmony.com/plan9/ventigridserver.qcow2.img.tgz is just the image < 1249762779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and qemu can't make use of the cool VT-x thingy < 1249762788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kqemu < 1249762802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure it can. < 1249762820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need to have kvm in your kernel. < 1249762822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but that doesn't use hardware virtualization iirc? Only does some stuff in kernel to speed it up. Since kqemu works on my old sempron too < 1249762830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1249762837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your sempron has hardware virtualisation < 1249762846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1249762846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's not what kqemu does. < 1249762848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it doesn't < 1249762850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 is very frugal with resources < 1249762851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i know < 1249762859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so vt-x is totally unneeded < 1249762866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, Semprons don't have it. < 1249762870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt lm 3dnowext 3dnow rep_good pni lahf_lm < 1249762870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1249762876 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kvm only works if you have a processor that supports it :( < 1249762896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks around in qemu-launcher for a KVM option < 1249762900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fabrice Bellard also wrote a Linux kernel module (with preliminary ports to FreeBSD and MS Windows) named KQEMU or QEMU Accelerator, which notably speeds up x86 emulation on x86 platforms. This is accomplished by running user mode code directly on the host computer's CPU, and using processor and peripheral emulation only for kernel mode and real mode code < 1249762902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough. < 1249762928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but that isn't VT-x :P which was my point < 1249762961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1249762962 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kqemu can accelerate kernel mode code, too < 1249762973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's a hack. < 1249762973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if having virtualbox and kvm running at the same time will cause issues < 1249762979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249762988 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't see why < 1249763002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polarisation < 1249763008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm typing vertically < 1249763012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install is sure slow < 1249763014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why < 1249763014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is uncomfortable < 1249763021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: takes like 30m. < 1249763024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe no DMA? though I said yes when it asked if I wanted to use DMA < 1249763044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30m isn't bad. < 1249763053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about 15 minutes passed of the "installing file system" phase. And it is at 15% < 1249763062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that will add up to 30 minutes < 1249763080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used windows' file copy dialog AnMaster < 1249763136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. right. but a) this shows ETA in percent, not minutes b) the percent seems to be going at a steady rate, and has all the time < 1249763187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes for a larger desktop < 1249763191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desk* < 1249763195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in.... < 1249763222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to imagine a desk too small to fit a notebook. < 1249763230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't fit the throttle/joystick on there when the laptop is also on it < 1249763238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, throttle/joystick connected to desktop < 1249763248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keyboard/mouse for desktop there too < 1249763249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to ask augur about joysticks < 1249763253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't advise there < 1249763287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in: full size keyboard, mouse, large joystick, large throttle, laptop < 1249763292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just out of space then < 1249763304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already told you that i can't advise about joysticks. < 1249763368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well. I don't need advice. there is just no way to fit it :P < 1249763386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure augur is an expert on extra-large joysticks < 1249763450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1249763457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1249763497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah maybe with laptop near the back of the desktop, since it is just installing atm, don't need to type anything < 1249763511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right! it's always important that your joystick fits snugly. < 1249763518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :........ < 1249763531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to play vegastrike. that is why < 1249763548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, sure, ...play is an important part of human existence < 1249763554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't break anything < 1249763596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't know about "extra large". the base "box" of the throttle is 17x17 cm. about the same for the joystick < 1249763604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how tall? < 1249763640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1249763653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :throttle? depending on what position it is in.. between 14 and 20 cm it seems < 1249763657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rouhly < 1249763661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly* < 1249763689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more than average < 1249763712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joystick: close to 30 cm when in center position. Both these measures include the height of the base "box" too < 1249763723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is about 5 cm for either < 1249763728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: !!! < 1249763729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's HUGE! < 1249763742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it? Never owned any other joystick < 1249763751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i don't think many people do... < 1249763759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, own a joystick? < 1249763762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1249763764 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my joysticks are indeed extra large < 1249763765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than one < 1249763775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: his is 11" < 1249763775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saitek X52 Pro btw < 1249763782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite good for flight sim < 1249763784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:35] AnMaster: joystick: close to 30 cm when in center position. Both these measures include the height of the base "box" too < 1249763789 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an 17" and an 18" joystick. ;o < 1249763800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a 1000" joystick, true story. < 1249763806 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1249763807 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hawt < 1249763817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can get hard to carry around, like to lan parties < 1249763822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people like to play with it a lot there < 1249763825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda attracts a crowd < 1249763827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the hall effect for sensing the position of the joystick. Rather than messy potentiometers < 1249763830 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry i thought we were talking about dildos < 1249763839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249763839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penises < 1249763844 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1249763846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THUS THE EXTENDED INNUENDO ENDS < 1249763851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, no. Joysticks. As in real joysticks < 1249763855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249763857 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster has no sense of humor. < 1249763858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real joysticks, AnMaster < 1249763858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I know what ehird was trying to do :P < 1249763860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what we're talking about,. < 1249763863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I ignored it < 1249763864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,\.$/./ < 1249763869 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays with ehirds joystick < 1249763870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: retcon retcon retcon < 1249763876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(erection erection erection?) < 1249763878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1249763880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad timing < 1249763882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why you gotta do that augur < 1249763885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I actually realised it at " that's HUGE!" < 1249763895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I though: "no I'm pretty sure it isn't" < 1249763895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your naivety knows no bounds < 1249763921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I'm probably naive when it comes to innuendo < 1249763927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1249763949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joystick is where? in your end? oh. < 1249763983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you like blinkenlights? < 1249763993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no finkerpoken or mittengrabbem < 1249763995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mittengrabben < 1249764004 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another translation thingy: "In his words : ' is the operation was now are to Provide INFORMATION ABOUT IT ." < 1249764006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are no geek :P < 1249764008 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mittens :D < 1249764018 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently machine translations are Start To YELL AT YOU!!! < 1249764027 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting* < 1249764040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uhh, howso < 1249764077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aren't you supposed to like shiny blinking lights and such? < 1249764087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, let me get this straight < 1249764089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you made a reference < 1249764091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i continued it < 1249764097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you accused me of like < 1249764099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaking the reference < 1249764103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youuuuuu're stuuuuupid < 1249764150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. I didn't intend it as a reference like that. I intended it as a normal word for the mentioned concept (that of blinking lights) < 1249764158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkenlights < 1249764159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail. < 1249764162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I misread you < 1249764169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no finkerpoken or mittengrabbem <-- read "no" as "nor" < 1249764175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you didn't like the reference < 1249764175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249764208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guh electron microscopes use electrons < 1249764213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought they looked at electrons < 1249764213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249764230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seriously? < 1249764236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :D < 1249764237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seriously thought that? < 1249764238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249764245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs at ehird < 1249764259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't _that_ far-fetched < 1249764273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they use electrons due to the shorter wavelength. In order to be able to "see" smaller details < 1249764295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is what I learnt in the physics course in school < 1249764317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders about UK education < 1249764343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listening is never mandatory :P < 1249764383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu emulates a Pentium2? *HUH* < 1249764393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running at 2261 MHz < 1249764394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249764403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one rare Pentium II < 1249766418 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249766481 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1249766486 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive started packing my books < 1249766513 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive got almost three boxes full already < 1249766528 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im only done with the shelf along the top part of my wall < 1249766539 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many books x.x < 1249766726 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electron microscopes do look at electrons, though :| < 1249766739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, question: as you know my laptop is high dpi. How do I make it possible to actually read what it says in plan9 on it :D < 1249766751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, where do I set DPI/font size stuff < 1249766790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, are you moving? < 1249766797 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: yeah < 1249766824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. good luck with finding large enough boxes < 1249766859 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i have, dont worry < 1249767081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1249767102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get this across my plan9 screen atm: "err 2; arena arenas00 creation time after last write time" < 1249767103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of it < 1249768194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: plan9 fonts are bitmaps iirc < 1249768201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tough shit, scale up the window < 1249768211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use a bigger font < 1249769334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a low opinion of bitmap fonts < 1249769542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't exactly matter unless you have good typefaces. < 1249769559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Plan 9 fonts are non-free though, which is dumb. < 1249769590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, just because they're non-free doesn't mean they could just bundle Helvetica or something; they presumably aren't paying royalties on the current fonts.) < 1249769745 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, that issue came up on 9fans recently - let me see if I can find the thread - the basic cause I believe is using venti and not allowing venti data dumps to complete, along with clock sync stuff < 1249769772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, venti breaks everything! < 1249769842 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, heres the thing - plan9 was designed to *not* run everything on the same box. its possible to do so, but stuff like the massive dumps of venti prints to your console because of frequent reboots tend to crop up < 1249769901 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this is a qemu vm, when i use venti and plan9 in qemu, i have to set up the venti server as a userspace process on a different qemu VM - trying to stuff a full venti/fossil/auth/cpu/terminal into a single qemu VM has never worked well for me < 1249769943 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because the qemu virtualization layer cant seem to handle it well - an all-in-one setup seems to work OK on native hardware or in vmware, but qemu just folds under the pressure < 1249770061 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you are interested in grappling with the 'arenas00 creation time' prints, look in http://9fans.net/archive/2009/07 and search for 'arenas' and you will find a long thread about exactly your issue < 1249770068 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cause, and how to eliminate it < 1249770091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Meh, that's work. *GIVES UP* < 1249770099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Further proof that Plan 9 sucks. < 1249770138 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of having the system be usable by people without extensive study and experience - plan9 is absolutely awful, that is for sure < 1249770153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trolling man < 1249770160 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say that learning how to use plan9 in any 'real' way took me almost 9 months of 10 hours a day study < 1249770164 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im serious hah < 1249770197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: uhh really? < 1249770201 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think plan9 is so amazing i devote large amounts of my time trying to figure out how to make the learning/setup curve less insane < 1249770203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did shit with plan 9 in hours < 1249770214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it set up, looked at the < 1249770214 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i doubt you did the things that make plan9 'important' in just a few hours < 1249770217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software stuff < 1249770223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used acme to hack out some code < 1249770225 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you havent had a cpu/auth server running before, imo youve never 'really' used plan 9 at all < 1249770227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried to use /dev/tcp and failed < 1249770234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: meh, that involves having multiple boxes < 1249770241 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: E X A C T L Y < 1249770257 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'real' thing plan9 is supposed to do is distribute its functions over a minimum of 4 boxes, really < 1249770270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple boxes = noise + space + money + unportability < 1249770271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := lame < 1249770290 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, thats why VMs are so important - i have 5 VMs running on an inexpensive desktop box currently < 1249770307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mycroftiv < 1249770307 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so moore's law and virtualization solved those issues < 1249770314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distributing across the same hardware is pointless! < 1249770318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's semantically null! it does nothing! < 1249770319 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, its not at all < 1249770327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is though! < 1249770329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just extra overhead < 1249770331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for no gain < 1249770333 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you are totally mistaken < 1249770342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any OS that requires such a thing just has a bad process/communication model < 1249770509 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: any electronic circuit that requires more than a few transistors is clearly overdesigned and inefficient. < 1249770515 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers were a mistake to begin with! < 1249770524 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1249770531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with this channel and strawmen lately? < 1249770538 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my meta-point sir < 1249770549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep < 1249770602 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep like the mariana's trench < 1249770603 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amirite < 1249770633 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get confused between the marianas trench and the mindano trench < 1249770662 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249770663 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249770666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is named after mariana < 1249770666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1249770672 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other is named after mindano. < 1249770672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other < 1249770675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is named after mindano < 1249770689 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that clears things up, i hadnt noticed the difference in names before < 1249770691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mindanao actually < 1249770722 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figured it was probably mindanao, but you never know. :D < 1249770752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249770767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ought to write a trivial bit of unexecutable os code so i can decide it's tedious and give up. < 1249770813 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: let me try to put it historically - the concept of plan9 was that bell labs would own and run all the hardware (cpus/disk servers/etc) and you would just have a cheap terminal that you dialed up the system on - and in your office, same thing, central machine room, cheap user terminals < 1249770830 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that was the usage scenario and model the OS was designed for, circa 1990 < 1249770837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. < 1249770840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thin clients failed. < 1249770844 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1249770845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a good thing < 1249770847 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and plan9 failed < 1249770852 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not so much of a good thing) < 1249770856 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it failed for good reasons < 1249770864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thin clients are fundamentally bad, tho < 1249770866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 isn't < 1249770899 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i dont see how you can say that - i mean, all of us now use our computers often as 'thin clients' given the modern web and 'all i ever use is the browser' style mainstream computer use < 1249770910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmh < 1249770912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't get me started < 1249770949 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as a practical matter, the 'thin client' mode of use is now incredibly popular - and i know lots of people who do all their work on remote xen hosted stuff delivered via citrix, also < 1249770961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of things are incredibly popular < 1249770964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like windows < 1249770965 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suck, sure < 1249770976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thin clients are so popular right now becaus < 1249770977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1249770979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're CONVENIENT < 1249770987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the bloated heap of modern computing < 1249770992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not required < 1249771002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, thin clients are good in a lot of cases < 1249771003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1249771006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so much thin client < 1249771012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a thick client that gets external resources < 1249771020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thin client has the display dictated to, just does IO < 1249771026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thick client with external objects is much more powerful < 1249771040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, even then, plenty of things could work better locally if only it was *more convenient* to do so < 1249771054 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, all this for me is subpoint to what im trying to say, which is that recreating an analog of the original plan9 architecture with multiple VMs on a single machine isnt pointless at all, any more than running more than one *application* at a time is pointlesss, because thats all you are doing! < 1249771084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just shows to me that if plan 9 needs an ip address and a protocol to do more than one computation at once effectively, then its model is outdated < 1249771101 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i run a venti server VM, and a fossil server VM, and a cpu server VM, and then a terminal Vm (to give the extreme) - im just running 4 different software applications on one computer, its just a 'heavy' way to do so < 1249771105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ c/ c/ < 1249771108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloody double spaces < 1249771124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: a lot of redundancy there too, i see your point, < 1249771135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i get that with plan 9 it's "needed" to emulate the distribution this way, < 1249771142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't think it's the good way, as opposed to a hack < 1249771145 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the technical problem is actually the qemu virtualization layer being inadequate as a direct practical matter < 1249771164 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the software that is at fault is qemu, not plan9, in the original source incident i believe < 1249771185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1249771200 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though plan9 people would say that you are supposed to 'know' that after you first install plan9, you should probably *not* reboot until your initial archival dump from fossil to venti completes) < 1249771261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhhhhhhhhhhh < 1249771321 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but, if you want to find evidence to support your assertion about "if plan 9 needs an ip address and a protocol..." is a comment in the source code near an early boot bring up of IP stack saying "this is such a crock" < 1249771331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1249771355 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that the process of trying to accomadate the average modern home user by figuring out how to stuff all the necessary components of a plan9 system into a single box that can be booted all at once - not so perfect, even by their standards < 1249771370 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249771401 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the original system, the disk storage servers didnt even run the same kernel as the cpus and terminals < 1249771454 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally, code-wise, a 'different os' for each of the different functional components - over time that evolved and changed and some of the componenets were swapped out, like venti replacing the original archival data server < 1249771462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1249771471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1249771473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i mentioned recently that kernels suck? < 1249771478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, thanks for that link < 1249771493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / / < 1249771531 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: welcome back, good luck with your setup - as i mentioned venti+fossil boot system inside qemu has always been problematic for me < 1249771536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird hm why? < 1249771544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, that is what I used yes < 1249771547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the explanation involves big words < 1249771559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brief summary http://tunes.org/wiki/no-kernel.html < 1249771569 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249771570 0 :MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-47.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249771619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you do scheduling of CPU time between objects? < 1249771634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands AnMaster a "Didn't Read The Page At All" badge < 1249771644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I read the first few lines < 1249771649 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249771654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and then: tl;dr < 1249771662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fuck you, I'm not your personal reading assistant. < 1249771671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't read seven short paragraph < 1249771672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s. < 1249771691 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: long story short - the answer is nontechnical but processes dont schedule themselves, they attach to another 'meta-object' that controls task switching < 1249771702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: tl;dr < 1249771708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sentence was over 10 words. < 1249771717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, right... And that bit runs in ring0? < 1249771723 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249771731 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as i said, the wiki page was nontechnical < 1249771738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hur hur the hardware is what makes all design decisions hur hur < 1249771745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Abstraction? UNPOSSIBLE!!! < 1249771751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, well. I'm wondering how the hell this could be implemented on x86 at least.... < 1249771766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I assume is the goal < 1249771774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to it being the most common architecture < 1249771788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in this case x86 includes 64-bit variants) < 1249771807 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my opinion as a practical matter is that your OS abstraction layer is above what you might call 'shim code' and that (just imo at least) in some ways the differences are semantic/conceptual more than anything else < 1249771827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really can't imagine how to not have a kernel and just use attached procedures for task switching... < 1249771834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're either hugely massively ignorant about how OSes work < 1249771836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just can't hack. < 1249771846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, sure this looks all nice and fluffy, but whatever code runs in ring0 is "kernel" to me... < 1249771862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's funny, then; you'll class my whole system as kernel. < 1249771864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kernel includes stuff like loadable drivers to me. < 1249771872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah, it is like inferno or such? < 1249771876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1249771881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If I define kernel to mean something, it means that and not what it actually means. < 1249771881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that is an unusual case. < 1249771884 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why im saying its mostly semantics and conceptualizing - and some real differences in what functional tasks are located in what coe blocks - but still < 1249771891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shocking < 1249771948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My only comment on a no-kernel design is that it is probably very freaking hard to get working initially. < 1249771957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1249771966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must be reading different articles < 1249771972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's exactly as easy as a kernel system < 1249771980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe a bit more accurate would be: whatever handles cpu scheduling, interrupt management, core memory management, doing the actual ring-0 code to do stuff like DMA and so on is the kernel < 1249771995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If I define kernel to mean something, it means that and not what it actually means. < 1249772018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then provide *YOUR* definition of kernel < 1249772023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting < 1249772031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......... < 1249772035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: But you have to, like, do more design than "Alright, let's toy with the standard UNIX kernel design a bit". < 1249772044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want me to ship a copy of Wikipedia to your house? < 1249772046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like that? < 1249772055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it too fucking long didn't goddamn read. < 1249772061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus. < 1249772078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird,I find my definition quite fitting with the one on wikipedia < 1249772087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the thing making the design hard (IMO) is that you'd kinda be paving the way. < 1249772098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or do your system *trust all "traditionally userspace" code* < 1249772100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much of a criticsm, just a comment. < 1249772118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's like a microkernel only more so. < 1249772122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249772134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ding. < 1249772135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong. < 1249772141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is nothing like a microkernel at all. < 1249772146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, microkernels are possibly the antithesis of it. < 1249772167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, he indicated everything ran in ring 0 above: " AnMaster: That's funny, then; you'll class my whole system as kernel.". Seems insecure if you are, say, browsing the web < 1249772169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1249772188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will *always* be bugs in anything as complex as a web browser < 1249772189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Make it so that as little is done in the kernel as possible" is a lot like "Make it so that the 'kernel' is a misnomer." < 1249772197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You're truly an idiot. < 1249772205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, care to justify? < 1249772209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just personal insult :P < 1249772218 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thats right, the web is TEEEMING with exploits targeting a nonexistent operating system ;) < 1249772221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And the OS would be written in Smalltalk. < 1249772228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, because you never understand any of my justifications or rebut them with strawmen and faux-jokes because you're an idiot. < 1249772232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll settle for a personal insult. < 1249772235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, well, assuming it would become popular. Which I also assume is a goal of every OS < 1249772254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you FAIL < 1249772255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only exploits akin to, say, the crazy shit done on Windows pre-NT would be from bugs of the Smalltalk implementation. < 1249772257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249772266 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody with any sense thinks any os is going to be popular unless it starts with a w, ends with s, and has indow in the middle < 1249772309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, yet linux is not that uncommon nowdays. Popular might even be a good word for it. Though far from as popular as windows indeed. < 1249772311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers that his client has an ignore feature, unlike his previous one < 1249772406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, anyway as far as I can see, trusting all code that runs seems stupid. Surely running code in a ring != 0 has proven a good (which isn't same as "perfect") solution by now :P < 1249772470 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i have no opinion, and none of the stuff from tunes or that ehird has said actually seems to make any kind of statement one way or another in that regard - i think ehird was speaking more generally about the 'whole os being kernel' than what ring stuff was assigned to < 1249772471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc also at least on x86 and x86_64 running everything in ring 0 would be suboptimal. As in: stuff like task switching and page tables are designed for a kernel/userspace split. < 1249772489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is what reading the architectural documentation for AMD64 seemed to indicate < 1249772532 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: from everything ive gathered from ehird, most of the things he talks about are always taking place at a layer of abstraction built up from the native hardware behavior < 1249772570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, also, memory protection is good for other reasons too. Remember "app crashing crashed whole OS"? Wasn't that long ago that was the norm outside *nix < 1249772587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said < 1249772590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:50] AnMaster: mycroftiv, sure this looks all nice and fluffy, but whatever code runs in ring0 is "kernel" to me... < 1249772590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:51] ehird: AnMaster: That's funny, then; you'll class my whole system as kernel. < 1249772594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was just trolling him. < 1249772624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, and I'm mostly interested in the actual implementation details. The low level stuff. < 1249772632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ehird seems to hate thinking about < 1249772637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and talking about < 1249772667 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, its obvious that you and ehird direct your thinking at different topics, and i myself agree that 90% (99%?) of the actual work tends to be struggling with that stuff to get the abstractions you want created and working right < 1249772682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, my OS maps fairly directly to the hardware. < 1249772688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moreso, dare I say, than Linux < 1249772692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's just simpler. < 1249772695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, was that agreeing with me or ehird? < 1249772699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1249772707 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: its saying that you are talking past each other < 1249772725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to think of a context in which mycroftiv's last line makes sense < 1249772727 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you know about um, whats it called, battlecruiser 3000 or something, and that guy's legendary flame wars on the net? < 1249772727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Certainly easier to add features to. < 1249772739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: nope < 1249772742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, modularity. < 1249772743 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it makes sense when its obvious that you guys disagree on definitions < 1249772746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Battlecruiser 3000AD (also known as [BC3K] in Usenet) is one of the longest-developed games in computer game history. < 1249772748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun < 1249772759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, I'm a fan of OSes like http://www.coyotos.org/ Imagine how much I will dislike a OS *not* caring about security < 1249772777 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its interesting - and its a cautionary tale - it actually turned out to be a pretty good game, and the guy has a continuing series of later games that seem to have a fan community < 1249772784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... But he's not not caring about security. < 1249772805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is AnMaster accusing my OS of being insecure? < 1249772806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and gets angry when I want to know about how he implemented it < 1249772821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he know I'm doing a full fucking capability based system? < 1249772823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no exceptions? < 1249772832 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the original game took forever to make and was notorious for the guy making it trolling the hell out of usenet by talking about how great his game was, before hed actually written much of it < 1249772835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll note that the OS is meant to be programmed in Smalltalk. Who needs hardware memory protection when the language itself guarantees memory safety? < 1249772840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not unignore me if you are going to ask what I just said... < 1249772851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HURR BUT WHAT IF YOU HAVE A BUG IN THE INTERPRETER < 1249772861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hah. Well I didn't know that until a few minutes ago when ehird said it < 1249772863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, Linux has the exact same problem. So do all kernel systems. < 1249772867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I say "system calls"? < 1249772868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it you or mycroftiv? < 1249772885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1249772885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's said it in the past, at least. < 1249772897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I have been away for most of the last few days < 1249772901 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you should stop talking about your os as if its something that exists and is running now and has definite proven characteristics. < 1249772904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty damned clear he intends to do it all in Smalltalk, and have the Smalltalk implementation written in Forth. < 1249772913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your attempts at trolling fails when you are guessing at what I'm saying < 1249772917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i'm not < 1249772922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about the fundamental design < 1249772932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., if these constraints aren't met, it isn't the OS < 1249772942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, link to that game? < 1249772958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, brb < 1249772961 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, thats why i point to the battlecruiser 3000 example, because its so similar, in terms of the failures of communication between designer and people he was talking to < 1249772983 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i dunno, i always just google it when it crosses my mind to check in on it < 1249772987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249772991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, is it freeware? < 1249773009 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is now, yeah - its day of legendary usenet flame wars was a decade ago or something < 1249773050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, anyway I'm genuinely interested in how ehird is going to solve the actual implementation on x86/x86_64 while ensuring good performance. And good security. < 1249773103 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just as i told ehird he shouldnt talk about his os as if it exists yet, i think its also silly for you to expect implementation details given that you know there isnt any code running yet < 1249773111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, I wonder what will become of DNF then... < 1249773161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, well surely he must have considered "will this design actually work on hardware that is likely to be available" < 1249773177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"or do I need to develop my own -machine?" < 1249773182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See Smalltalk for more details. < 1249773255 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, you can get whatever chips you want to implement whatever formal behavior you want, thats pretty well established - and I agree with where Fred Brooks ended up about software development: < 1249773283 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate, improve, iterate, improve - always from a working minimal testbed - and do your design 'ahead' of yourself, but constantly with redesign based on the testing and use < 1249773290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I know it is closed world. But you have to consider "will it run well on common architectures" when designing anything. To take an _extreme_ example: Searching memory by using CAM is more efficient than most other search algorithms. Yet it isn't commonly available on most hardware. < 1249773312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found in special equipment like network switches and routers mostly < 1249773326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... But Smalltalk works, and it works sufficiently well for most purposes. < 1249773337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an OS that depended on it for being efficient would be rather useless for most people < 1249773366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is like asking if C could be used for an OS... < 1249773366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes. But does he intend to run it under a host OS hosting the smalltalk implementation forever? < 1249773368 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyone doing any work on creating a 'new os' should obviously know as a practical matter most people will never hear of it or care. and thats ok. < 1249773375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or will it be the "native OS you boot into" at some point < 1249773388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the one you select in grub < 1249773398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whatever bootloader you use) < 1249773455 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ehird has stated clearly that he intends to control the hardware natively and not run simply as hosted 'environment' < 1249773485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, right. Maybe he did before. But as I mentioned, I have been pretty busy during the days recently < 1249773506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I hardly have time to read several hours of fast paced conversation in logs < 1249773533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I might have missed details when I was marked away :P < 1249773549 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt mean for my statement 'ehird has stated clearly...' to carry the implication that you were at fault for not knowing that < 1249773570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249773577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he intends to code it in small talk? < 1249773586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't the small talk runtime system be the "kernel" then < 1249773592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a certain sense < 1249773605 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, he wants to use forth for the lower level components of the system < 1249773613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since iirc smalltalk is pretty hosted. far from the "portable asm" that C is < 1249773631 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create a smalltalk implementation hosted within his forth environment < 1249773639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249773661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't the forth part act as the kernel of the smalltalk part then < 1249773663 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the basic concept he has outlined, which is definitely challenging, but i dont think there is anything at all 'wrong' with it conceptually < 1249773691 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant speak for him, the way the two of you define 'kernel' hasnt been straightened out < 1249773710 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think when you say 'kernel' its fkdjkjaasd to him and when he says 'kernel' its kaoiuweruieu to you < 1249773752 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be using an 'operational' definition, in the sense of 'the kernel is whatever code that does x, y, z, so if x, y, z are done, whatever does them, we call a kernel' < 1249773767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, to me kernel is the lowest level parts of an OS. Mostly those that *must* be run in ring 0 to work. Which on x86 means stuff like task switching and memory management, setting up DMA transfers, managing and handling interrupts < 1249773770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot more < 1249773796 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, and that definition seems to make ehird angry, he seems to regard is as unconventional/incorrect < 1249773808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, and he referred me to wikipedia < 1249773816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that wikipedia page seems to agree with me < 1249773831 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no role as referee as to definitional correctness, i wash my hands < 1249773840 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with humpty dumpty personally < 1249773844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[The kernel's] responsibilities include managing the system's resources (the communication between hardware and software components)" < 1249773850 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"when i use a word, it means exactly what i want it to mean, neither more nor less" < 1249773852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1249773875 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i was trying to answer some questions, you should verify my statements because i cant speak for you < 1249773896 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i believe stuff like 'forth lower layer, smalltalk upper layer' is 'established fact' about your os design now < 1249773947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unignores AnMaster and reads logs to make sense < 1249773949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:21:01 won't the forth part act as the kernel of the smalltalk part then < 1249773950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1249773956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk, for instance, handles talking to the keyboard < 1249773958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the display < 1249773958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1249773966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth is just for writing the Smalltalk and what's needed for that. < 1249773984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:22:47 mycroftiv, to me kernel is the lowest level parts of an OS. Mostly those that *must* be run in ring 0 to work. Which on x86 means stuff like task switching and memory management, setting up DMA transfers, managing and handling interrupts < 1249773996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by that definition, both all of my OS and none of my OS and everything in between is the kernel < 1249774007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you could isolate some bits and say maybe-this-is-the-kernel < 1249774012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd be hopeless < 1249774027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:24:04 "[The kernel's] responsibilities include managing the system's resources (the communication between hardware and software components)" < 1249774028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, you can't do certain stuff in userspace on most modern CPU arches. This includes x86, PPC and some more. Userspace being defined as "whatever is the equivalent of ring 3 on the CPU arch". You will get general protection fault for loading the task register while in ring 3 for example on x86. < 1249774030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no manager in my OS < 1249774035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider the kernel as the government < 1249774040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my OS as a peaceful anarchist commune < 1249774076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(depending on your politics, you may have a mental blockage that anything could be peaceful without the implicit global threat of force) < 1249774092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are all applications managed, as in running under a VM, like inferno or such < 1249774102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where VM here would be the smalltalk code I assume < 1249774109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mu < 1249774118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capability system < 1249774129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an object has a reference to another object that talks directly to the hardware < 1249774131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it can talk to the hardware < 1249774132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what *enforces* the capabilities < 1249774140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: capabilities don't require "enforcement" < 1249774142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz see wikipedia < 1249774201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (depending on your politics, you may have a mental blockage that anything could be peaceful without the implicit global threat of force) <-- I don't live in US... < 1249774208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: loooooool < 1249774216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how a government derives its authority right? < 1249774217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it was a lame joke :P < 1249774226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1249774228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1249774231 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249774231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as a de jure government, only a de facto one enforced by the threat of violence < 1249774233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, technically, an assorted bunch of objects around the system will have methods that run in ring-0, as an implementation detail < 1249774240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does not include drivers < 1249774245 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :government derives its authority from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony < 1249774245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drivers just use these objects to talk to the hardware < 1249774258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you'd have drivers running in userspace according to you < 1249774283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok. I can already see the performance problems ahead on x86. I suspect I know more about this sort of thing on x86 than you do. < 1249774285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1249774292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree the idea sounds great < 1249774295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think what you want < 1249774311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise that smalltalk as an os is nothing new right < 1249774315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the original smalltalk was < 1249774322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, drivers in user space is certainly possible. But for some stuff it just won't cut it < 1249774338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm uninterested in your argument by assertion < 1249774359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Shame that modern CPUs are effectively C machines, isn't it? Makes it a bit hard to imagine anything else. < 1249774370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overhead of switching between userspace/kernel when handling interrupts from a 10 gbps ethernet card? < 1249774378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: userspace/kernel? < 1249774378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you serious :P < 1249774379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no such thing < 1249774381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well < 1249774384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ring 0/3 < 1249774403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't even suggest ring 1 or 2 on x86. They are *even* slower to switch to/from < 1249774426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking everything you said as axiomatic, because I can't be arsed to argue: then we run everything under ring 0 < 1249774434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since ring 0<->3 has a "fast path" named SYSCALL/SYSRET and/or SYSENTER/SYSEXIT < 1249774440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on if you ask AMD or Intel < 1249774463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how you seem to think that an operation on a cpu will somehow not achieve 10gbps? < 1249774471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Actually, there's more than those for ring 0<->3 jumps... < 1249774499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes there is more to do. I was simplifying for the sake of the discussion < 1249774503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux has a function at a fixed memory location that does whatever's fastest, because there's so many ways to do it... < 1249774507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. < 1249774520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but going to/from rings 1 and 2 is *even* slower < 1249774540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and I know about the vdso :) < 1249774548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, I'm among good company with my won't-cut-it performance-destroying managed model < 1249774551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Tell that to Xen? :P < 1249774553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like microsoft, with their Singularity project < 1249774569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's comforting to know both me and microsoft know less about x86 than AnMaster < 1249774573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, running everything in ring 0 could work < 1249774583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Microsoft Research. < 1249774584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They < 1249774592 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are < 1249774594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: aka the good part of Microsoft < 1249774594 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coming < 1249774595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'re the same guys that think Haskell is a decent language. ;) < 1249774601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Quite right. < 1249774605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Well. That is relative "interpreting/dynamic recompiling in userspace" < 1249774621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, then yes using the extra rings is better < 1249774679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, iirc virtualbox uses ring 1 too for this. Not sure if that applies when using VT-x/AMD-V though < 1249774777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VT-x/AMD-V is most akin to VM-86. That is, the code runs in ring 0, except with unsafe calls automagically getting shipped on through to the hypervisor. < 1249774783 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: since you mention virtual machines, doesnt that point in the direction of 'not worrying' because I can run a qemu vm with no kqemu on an almost 10 year old freebsd box and put plan9 inside and still have a usable environment? < 1249774783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway AnMaster, my system absolutely has no *centralised* kernel < 1249774788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's what a kernel is! < 1249774794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it has privileged code < 1249774798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a kernel is centralised, that's the definition < 1249774807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, plan9 doesn't use a lot of resources < 1249774836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking more about "server under high load, maybe DDoS" kind of scenario. < 1249774851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: not worrying about what? < 1249774853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i missed the context < 1249774860 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just saying, so far as I can tell, even the 'worst case scenario' of having the slowest possible way of using weak hardware, you can still get something usable out of it < 1249774898 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not worrying too much about optimal hardware performance < 1249774922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability-based_addressing looks nice, but that requires hardware support, which isn't present on x86 at least. < 1249774924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean the ring0 vs ring3 task switching crap? < 1249774931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ignored that because it's obviously fast enough < 1249774936 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see, heres my perspective - i started using a computer in 1980, and subjectively, that was still the FASTEST computer ive ever used in terms of time-to-task in many ways < 1249774947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: useless < 1249774954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, heh < 1249774956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically never access memory directly anyway < 1249774963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why would I use that? < 1249774965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't? < 1249774970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not in smalltalk I guess < 1249774980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction: Not in any sane system. < 1249774990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you want to be able to run ported programs written in other languages? < 1249775017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. My OS doesn't have programs, it has objects. < 1249775037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dual-booting or using a VM is infinitely preferable to breaking the model like that, because you'll just end up with something that acts like a VM anyway. < 1249775040 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitions, definitions, definitions < 1249775043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you will need to develop your own web browser object replacement instead of creating an object that wraps webkit? < 1249775045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you really need it, POSIX/ELF emulation layer, fully sandboxed. < 1249775049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an example < 1249775064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe if I was trying to freakin' make something practical I'd be cloning Linux, have you considered that? < 1249775068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: no, fundamental design < 1249775075 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im gonna make an os where i dont have programs, i dont have objects, i have DELICIOUS CHEESECAKE and ICE CREAM and it will be great < 1249775077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought something usable was a goal < 1249775083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And?!! < 1249775092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "this is a OS I will use as my main one in 10 years time" < 1249775093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9 doesn't integrate POSIX apps either. < 1249775094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1249775100 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i dont believe smalltalk and object oriented is actually 'fundamnetal' in the sense you do - i think its a perfetly valid and useful and beautiful set of abstractions < 1249775109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: fact is < 1249775113 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dont think it means that a program aint a program any more, its just an objecct < 1249775114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a posix program does NOT fit in with my model < 1249775115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1249775116 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thas just semantics < 1249775158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will you have some sort of window manager for the OS? < 1249775176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some "this isn't horrible X but it handles the GUI" sort of thing < 1249775195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any plans for the GUI? < 1249775195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm working on a hobby OS called Linux < 1249775195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does it have a web browser yet? < 1249775201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1249775209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't say GUI, there is no command line. < 1249775217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the bootup forth console could count. < 1249775309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the ui < 1249775312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was not saying "has it yet", I was saying "any plans for this" < 1249775317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please read what I actually said < 1249775320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nononono < 1249775321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1249775324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't say GUI < 1249775326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the G is redundant < 1249775329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just the UI < 1249775335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant about the "Leenus Torvalts" bit :P < 1249775337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens to require a graphics processor and a colour display < 1249775354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: window manager is an implementation detail, though < 1249775357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who says i'll even use windows? < 1249775370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't my old vector display enough? WILL I NEED A FRAMEBUFFER? < 1249775372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1249775378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite so good cheap < 1249775380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249775380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chap < 1249775392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what would you use instead of windows < 1249775398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what sort of abstraction < 1249775411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1249775427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the abstraction of "windows" while far from perfect seems to be one that "kind of works better than everything else thought of so far" < 1249775460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know that the typical user's workflow consists of a tab bar at the bottom, with applications, and in one of those windows a tab bar at the top, being their pages, right? < 1249775471 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has nothing to do with ehird's os (since he doesnt like them) but i believe that we should replace the desktop metaphor with a namespace tree/network map < 1249775473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating windows aren't used by the average computer user < 1249775484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: wait when did i say i didn't like those < 1249775498 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you said you didnt like hierarchical file systems < 1249775501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: oh < 1249775502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, I don't < 1249775505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like trees < 1249775515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like floating things that you can search < 1249775547 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, and my visualization is a big 'tree' that shows your file system and you can zoom in and out on the content hanging on the branches, and it also can be zoomed out to show network map of the lan, etc - show the interconnections on the workspace < 1249775547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: you said you didnt like hierarchical file systems <-- that is easily solved. Don't use MacOS < 1249775558 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just a blank space full of disconnected icons < 1249775560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HFS is short for "hierarchical file system" ;P) < 1249775590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly, Mac OS is clearly an operating system for raincoats. < 1249775593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't like trees? You will hate implementing memory management on x86 then :D < 1249775597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fruit. < 1249775600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is trees. lots of them < 1249775606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :page table trees < 1249775615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :format dictated by hardware < 1249775627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just molest x86 until it does what I want. < 1249775635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have to rewrite all the microcode, so be it. < 1249775650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, think it is hard wired into the silicon. < 1249775652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for speed reasons < 1249775656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the MMU < 1249775663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so? < 1249775670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microcode won't help < 1249775670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just find some instructions that heat up the processor so much that it melts < 1249775676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then cool down at just the right time < 1249775678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh HCF right < 1249775678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila! new microcode < 1249775686 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i meant to get some food 3 hours ago, time to avoid dying of starvation due to os discussions < 1249775699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: so < 1249775705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: I WAS THINKING ABOUT MEMORY MANAGEMENT < 1249775712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also your inability to eat. < 1249775824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, memory management is fun. Getting it right is *hard* < 1249775840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound fun to me < 1249775902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, go read some reference manuals for system programming. AMD ones are generally easier to find your way around in than intel ones. Use both for the best result < 1249775912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1249775922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been able to avoid any Intel/AMD manuals so far in my life < 1249775931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly that makes coding asm nontrivial < 1249775935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you won't if coding a full blown OS < 1249775949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh :D < 1249775964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, handing SMP is even funnier < 1249775988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me the CPU doesn't have a predefined notion of processes/threads that it uses to do that? < 1249775992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me it's lower-level ;_; < 1249776004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it does have a notion of "tasks". < 1249776012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but those are uber-vague < 1249776026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't know the difference between processes and threads though < 1249776047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't have a fucking *clue* about doing that on multiple processors. < 1249776060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMP is... A hack. < 1249776064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are the same on linux at least. just fork() but instead of COW it is shared on write < 1249776068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yep < 1249776082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OS needs to handle scheduling across different CPUs < 1249776083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, x86 is a series of hacks. So. < 1249776088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processes are stupid < 1249776109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the single worst example of the hardware/kernel details being exposed to the top-level < 1249776122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and dual core is funnier < 1249776131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short quotation from intel docs showing this: < 1249776153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some bit fields in IA32_MISC_ENABLE MSR (MSR address 1A0H) may be shared between two logical processors sharing a processor core, or may be shared between different cores in a physical processor. See Appendix B, “Model-Specific Registers (MSRs)”." < 1249776171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes MSRs... < 1249776171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual-core? don't you mean N-core < 1249776175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes < 1249776177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "multi core" < 1249776185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant some weird 2-core specificness < 1249776198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I was vague < 1249776207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you need to sync MTRRs between cpus btw < 1249776210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about cores < 1249776231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I said "true pedants" not "pedants" < 1249776238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: please, can't you stop talking about this? it's making me want to get a heap of cash, buy a Symbolics and lock myself in a cave < 1249776239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not properly syncing them caused some semi-(in)famous bug in linux years ago. < 1249776244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHetc < 1249776263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1249776279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITHOUT EVEN AN ETHERNET CABLE < 1249776291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so lets skip hyperthreading then ;P < 1249776296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: it is even worse) < 1249776300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpu can handle hyperthreading. < 1249776305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doooooon't want to think about that < 1249776305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the OS must < 1249776309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what why < 1249776312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't i just pretend it's a core. < 1249776324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop. Not on the basic level < 1249776328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean hyperthreading worked in windows before the pentium 4 afaik < 1249776331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks quite different < 1249776332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in the test samples. < 1249776347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it would bloat the silicon to handle the scheduling but urgh < 1249776356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure the shipped some driver then that enabled it then < 1249776363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249776374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so step one become the most-used OS in the world < 1249776375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. I'm vomiting. < 1249776375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or maybe the interface was different back then < 1249776378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step two make intel my bitch and do it for me < 1249776383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, about? < 1249776385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: try not to < 1249776387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hyperthreading? < 1249776393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is such an *awful* design. < 1249776394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: All of x86. < 1249776395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I agree < 1249776398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL OF IT. < 1249776405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result of hyperthreading is cool! < 1249776442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I do believe that CPUs themselves need to be more abstract. A Brainfuck machine with peripherals memory-mapped? < 1249776449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't want to know how debuggers work < 1249776453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: graph reducer, bitch < 1249776454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bit makes me want to vomit < 1249776467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why, they hook in to the VM in question, of course. < 1249776468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware breakpoints *eugh* < 1249776476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant, traditional debuggers < 1249776479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're running a legacy native code program, you hook into the emulator! < 1249776483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU < 1249776488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: A graph reducer? That would be awesome. < 1249776490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLUFFY UNICORNS LA LA LA < 1249776491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it exists! < 1249776503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: A HASKELL MACHINE! < 1249776504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249776510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's what a graph reducer is! < 1249776513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awesome < 1249776515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES! < 1249776521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1249776523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll link you < 1249776549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I assume you know about CPUID btw? < 1249776553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/ < 1249776556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the think on x86 to check what the CPU supports < 1249776559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairly good idea < 1249776578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm not targeting anything below, say, core 2 < 1249776589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd support Atom if it did 64 bit < 1249776614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, first you must check CPUID exists. Since it didn't on 386. Thus you must first test if you can write to a specific register. If you can't bail out with "augh this is a 386. don't even try to run me" < 1249776618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I really have better things to do than cater to people with ancient CPUs < 1249776634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just showing how horrible x86 is ^ < 1249776641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1249776649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I'm not thinking about anything older than a few years < 1249776652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw to run 64-bit you need to set up page table first < 1249776656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bloody Haskell machine! < 1249776659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least modern x86_64 cpus are basically intercompatible < 1249776665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, the Reduceron is. < 1249776667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Currently-produced Atom chips are 64-bit. < 1249776671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are? < 1249776673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might support them. < 1249776677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as in. you need paging enabled to enter long mode (long mode = official name for 64-bit mode) < 1249776682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, I know. < 1249776694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably set up a ridiculous paging scheme that lets me abuse it for nefarious purposes. < 1249776709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the first thing my OS will do is do what it needs to do to enter long mode and then do i. < 1249776711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1249776713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to begin with just creating a page for the entire memory might be sane < 1249776716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye bye, legacy cruft. < 1249776723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: To begin with? Why, LoseThos never gives up that notion! < 1249776732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249776742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the "enter long mode" bit is probably best coded in asm. For your own sanity I mean < 1249776749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1249776754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as the Forth implementation < 1249776762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No GRUB, too. < 1249776766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing my own bootloader. < 1249776772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Because GRUB's written in C. :P < 1249776778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, uses ELF. < 1249776786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would suggest forth begins directly/shortly after you entered long mode < 1249776792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249776793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that using GRUB gets you is entering protected mode. < 1249776805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is *annoying*, but not too hard to write. < 1249776806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which is quite nice though < 1249776825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entering long mode is worse than entering protected mode < 1249776832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1249776840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootloader → long mode → forth → basic hardware setup → smalltalk vm → rest of hardware → full bootup procedure (unless it's the first time, this consists basically of restoring the last state) → done! < 1249776853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, another issue. In long mode you need all drivers. < 1249776854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1249776858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protected mode is just a few frobs to the keyboard controller and a ocuple register. < 1249776861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't enter the 16 bit mode thingy < 1249776864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to call the BIOS < 1249776866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Couple registers. < 1249776877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What? You can't use the BIOS in long mode? < 1249776886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just making sure I'm understanding you right < 1249776921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SILENCE < 1249776924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basically you can't use the BIOS interrupts to handle stuff like basic hardware for you (PATA/SATA controller for example) before you written a driver < 1249776928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when in long mode < 1249776940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the driver stay in 16-bit mode or something? < 1249776956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, I suppose existing 64-bit OSs just DIY it? < 1249776957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you know about vm86? < 1249776958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then I will. < 1249776962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1249776977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks putrid < 1249776980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual 8086 mode < 1249776985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to call the bios < 1249776991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other stuff < 1249776993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, does the BIOS really do all that much for you? < 1249777007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine what with incompatibilities and the like, it wouldn't be too hard to avoid using it < 1249777016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it provides slow access to hardware until you have your own drivers up and running < 1249777018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incompatibilities i.e. you can't rely on stuff that differs between BIOSes) < 1249777026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BIOSs < 1249777033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: eh < 1249777043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's useful for... accessing the harddrive, and not much else < 1249777045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, before you handle the VESA bit yourself you can use interrupts to make the BIOS do it. < 1249777049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hard can it be to use SATA? < 1249777054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't need VESA < 1249777064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until boot < 1249777071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well VGA then. Before you have anything up however... < 1249777079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't need VGA < 1249777110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, there's no sense in using BIOS interrupts for doing VGA. < 1249777130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway my point is that until you developed your own drivers for stuff like harddrive, video, keyboard/mouse (usb emulation is provided by bios), going into long mode == bad idea < 1249777131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no fancy bootup process; you turn it on, the screen sits there for a few seconds and then it turns graphical and your objects appear how you left them < 1249777138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't really need those things < 1249777147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the drivers are written in forth and smalltalk < 1249777148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sooo < 1249777151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1249777157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes less code to talk to the VGA card manually then it does to thunk to the BIOS... < 1249777160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. But I bet you won't have them ready right away < 1249777195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: consider that the entire number of times it interacts with the user until the smalltalk VM is up and running is zero < 1249777198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no input, no output < 1249777201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well iirc the first few lines are traditionally done by thunk to BIOS. Like when grub is printing "Loading stage 1.5" < 1249777221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Still no point in it. < 1249777221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh no < 1249777227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was writing my os and printing out lines to the screen < 1249777231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just B80000 or something < 1249777238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you just write to it at y*80+x or something < 1249777239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial < 1249777245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's the address of the framebuffer. < 1249777247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line wrapping, a few lines < 1249777250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrolling, about ten < 1249777266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a tiny bit more complicated to actually have non-textual graphics, but even that's not hard. < 1249777274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing a couple of things to the VGA registers. < 1249777287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm, maybe I misremember that bit then. Still you need to do it for harddisk < 1249777309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Yeah, that's called "a bootloader". < 1249777313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1249777315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hard can talking to sata be < 1249777330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Harder than an interrupt. :P < 1249777332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that I have no clue about. But pretty hard I bet < 1249777338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with DMA and such < 1249777359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the most simple HD access is needed until smalltalk is running and loads the full HD driver < 1249777362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you need memory management up < 1249777377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, every time a system managed to boot we show be overawed. < 1249777379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1249777379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DMA is optional. < 1249777381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to write memory management as part of the forth < 1249777383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so s'ok < 1249777388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are used to it working < 1249777395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is quite a feat when you think about it < 1249777409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful! thinking like that turns you into thom yorke. < 1249777416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thom yorke"? < 1249777419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249777424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who/what < 1249777433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous painter < 1249777435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18th century < 1249777455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Yorke <-- wikipedia fails then < 1249777464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of that guy < 1249777469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be named after him or sth < 1249777480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no disambig link < 1249777488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he wasn't exactly famous i just like him < 1249777516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok. explain that reference though please < 1249777522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what did he paint < 1249777524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1249777534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes me similar to him when thinking that above < 1249777542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reference to his painting Rocks Crushed Over the Sky At Five O'Clock < 1249777555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice name. < 1249777569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1249777579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google doesn't turn up anything relevant < 1249777597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just music < 1249777601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1249777602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1249777627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw your boot loader. It has to fit in a *tiny* space < 1249777654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1249777657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's my bootloader < 1249777663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp ptr < 1249777674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you need to load something to jump to < 1249777691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1249777698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a bit more :P < 1249777706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking sata for a KB or so of code < 1249777706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... Boot loaders are trivial. < 1249777711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true < 1249777712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awfully hard! < 1249777715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could even use the bios. < 1249777717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, shaddup. < 1249777728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I didn't say they were hard < 1249777733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just trying to scare ehird :P < 1249777736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since you've got a whole block to work with and BIOS interrupts. < 1249777741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bootloaders don't do much. < 1249777750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IMO MBR is awful. < 1249777752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a hello world os in assembly including bootloader following a nice little tutorial thing once < 1249777754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a loop that reads a few blocks in and jumps. < 1249777758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't understand a lot of the operations but < 1249777761 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played tic-tac-toe in a bootloader < 1249777764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was rather trivial < 1249777766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really I want a sane system like PPC+Open Firmware < 1249777767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a few hundred lines. < 1249777775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: whoa whoa don't call that sane, it's just better < 1249777779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM + OpenFirmware, even closer < 1249777781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well true < 1249777788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but until we enter lisp machine territory, we're not sane < 1249777791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC is quite nice though < 1249777793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're just more creatively deranged < 1249777794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Reduceron? < 1249777795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of registers < 1249777802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ARM gives you a free shift in every instruction. < 1249777804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERY INSTRUCTION. < 1249777807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rest my case. ARM is cool. < 1249777815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, low heat and low poewr. < 1249777816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :power < 1249777827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :power requirements, that is < 1249777830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shift? as in some flag to shift the value by n? < 1249777838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically. < 1249777852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can append ; right/leftshift foo to every instruction < 1249777863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without performance penalty < 1249777863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1249777873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often is that useful I wonder < 1249777892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in embedded work? tons! < 1249777893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares though < 1249777894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool < 1249777902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1249777919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, everyone knows the only real sane platform is Itanium/EFI. < 1249777921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :crickets < 1249777923 0 :crickets!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chirp < 1249777926 0 :crickets!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1249777946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even I hate EFI! < 1249777959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know enough about EFI < 1249777967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Itanium is a cool concept < 1249777969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bloated OS that replaces your BIOS/OpenFirmware. < 1249777980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, SGI's Altix 4000 server could have up to 2048 CPUs < 1249777992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess someone hacked in one more and had to wait on xkcd's linux patch. < 1249777996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, linux supports up to 4096 iirc? < 1249778006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fairly sure xkcd just made that up < 1249778023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fairly sure it does support 4096 ones (at least) < 1249778035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool how it's limited < 1249778039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereby cool i mean stupid < 1249778051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "at least" means "maybe not limited" < 1249778055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be limited < 1249778064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in MYYYYYYYYY os, everything like that is a bignum < 1249778071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INCLUDING THE DATETIME CLASS < 1249778182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1249778465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Everything? < 1249778472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is curious how you write lambdas as a bignum < 1249778473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249778482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING INTEGERIC < 1249778499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(integeric, adj. When you start to write numeric but realise integral would be better, and want to have some fun.) < 1249778535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249778562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, in other words: Integral a has one instance: Bignum. < 1249778573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not in the low level Forth. :P < 1249778581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and not when conversing with hardware. < 1249778593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course. < 1249778606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because hardware's a bitch, and Forth's low-level. < 1249778635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh talking with x86 is fun < 1249778643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1249778646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is never fun. < 1249778649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't want to know how some structures are packed < 1249778658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Forth is so funly low-level. < 1249778672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a string on the stack and want to shuffle it? HOPE YOU REMEMBER THEY'RE TWO SEPARATE ELEMENTS IN ONE < 1249778675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, the pointer in the GDT. < 1249778701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that in 3 or 4 different parts? < 1249778723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, something like that < 1249778724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gave up on my previous os because of the gdt < 1249778728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just triple faulted when i set it up < 1249778731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO MATTER WHAT ;_; < 1249778741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when i copied it verbatim from the bkdev tutorial < 1249778753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bkerndev < 1249778760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was able to get it down to a single fault! < 1249778766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: then you gave up? :D < 1249778769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... By having an interrupt handler) < 1249778773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1249778967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided to never write an OS after seeing the GDT < 1249779029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, in my OS I only need one segment < 1249779040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set as completely free-for-all < 1249779095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Linux uses two segments iirc < 1249779099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel and user space < 1249779108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know of no such thing! < 1249779128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two segments more map to "ring 0" and "ring 3". < 1249779128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say your OS would < 1249779135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes < 1249779144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD has twice as many segments. < 1249779151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh why? < 1249779152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read xor execute. ;) < 1249779159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1249779164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It lets them emulate the NX bit. < 1249779168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249779177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They split the memory space in half. < 1249779180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W^X, though, not R^X. < 1249779185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what a waste of memory! < 1249779186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One side has read/write stuff. < 1249779188 0 :morenel!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249779192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One side has executable stuff. < 1249779195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1249779200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway all RWX ftw! < 1249779201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's only one systems without the NX bit. < 1249779207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/one/on/ < 1249779208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, NX for the win :P < 1249779209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: still! < 1249779217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Totally unneeded in my OS! < 1249779232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, great for protecting against bugs though < 1249779239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso? < 1249779245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't read/write to memory directly. < 1249779251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or execute it. < 1249779253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for the forth layers < 1249779258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will debug a lot < 1249779270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything that helps detect bugs early == a good thing < 1249779283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know that the Forth layer is expected to be at its most bloated and fullest, say, 10,000 lines? < 1249779288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's after years. < 1249779296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. Still < 1249779303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, using NX in Forth code would... < 1249779309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defeat the point. < 1249779312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXECUTE etc. < 1249779314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Becaues. < 1249779316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Because < 1249779319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth never executes machine code like that < 1249779324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can still run anything as a forth word < 1249779331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd only help to catch bugs in the underlying Forth implementation < 1249779335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines a x86_128 where NX would be required < 1249779341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and said implementation will be quite short and very low-level < 1249779343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to annoy ehird :P < 1249779346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion, NX doesn't help me at all. < 1249779410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How many people need to address 302231454903657293676544 petabytes, anyways? < 1249779433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at his Dyson sphere as a holograph. < 1249779435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not yet indeed. I bet it will happen faster than we expect though < 1249779436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... nobody. < 1249779437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1249779437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(128 is a *very* big number) < 1249779440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1249779441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1249779448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean, passing 2^64 faster < 1249779459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1249779460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^128 is probably quite safe due to number of atoms and so on < 1249779477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 96 bit adressing would be really quite awkward < 1249779490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I bet they will just jump to 2^128 < 1249779497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one petabyte took up 1 angstrom of space, the whole of 128-bit's address space would be 0.003 lightyears. < 1249779498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1249779498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better marketing-wise too < 1249779523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thereby letting you mmap the entirety of the Universe. < 1249779527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If one petabyte took up 1 angstrom of space, the whole of 128-bit's address space would be 0.003 lightyears. <-- amazing :D < 1249779531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, cool idea < 1249779548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1249779561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is guaranteed future proof < 1249779576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless we discover multiverse or something < 1249779600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you still want paging however. To handle swap and such < 1249779657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: His entire design implies paging. < 1249779663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1249779666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And having the entire hard drive mapped in memory. ;) < 1249779678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was fearing he would go for "single page" < 1249779680 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249779683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is possible < 1249779686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost < 1249779694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 supports 1 GB pages < 1249779699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would make it very hard to do object persistence. < 1249779704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm ok < 1249779737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much, much easier to give objects their own pages that may or may not be on the disk. < 1249779754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, quite a bit of waste of space there < 1249779763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for small objects < 1249779770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there will be lots of small objects < 1249779784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And? < 1249779790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum? < 1249779795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm always against wasting < 1249779802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bit of waste for small processes on UNIX, and there's a *lot* of small processes. < 1249779816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, in fact, a defining aspect. < 1249779820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not quite as many as there would be objects < 1249779833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming objects are as fine graded as I understood him < 1249779853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about the same waste involved in having a lot of small files on the disk. < 1249779864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Nobody even *talks* about that waste. < 1249779873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I worry about it < 1249779875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1249779884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I considered a pool system to solve it < 1249779892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a freak who still has a sub-1GB drive. < 1249779896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having the disk split in two parts. "large" and "small" < 1249779905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :growing from different ends < 1249779919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat like the heap and stack grows from different ends < 1249779924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(traditionally) < 1249779974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, like having 4 KB blocks at one end, and 1 KB at the other end < 1249780144 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249780168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Freak who has a sub-1MB drive, I meant. < 1249780175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :D < 1249780184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, 350 GB and 160 GB < 1249780185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1249780189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also one at 20 GB < 1249780192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my old p3 < 1249780199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then WHY THE CRAP DO YOU WORRY ABOUT THAT? < 1249780217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why not < 1249780243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you've lost more than 100MB from the waste involved in having a large amount of small files, I will buy a hat and then eat my hat! < 1249780302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacq < 1249780323 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249780334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I have. By having 16 GB of sub-1KB files. < 1249780339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flightgear scenery < 1249780348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is stored in a horrible format. < 1249780364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one file with altitudes per each 0.1 degrees lat/long iirc < 1249780368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it 0.2? < 1249780368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know what? < 1249780372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1249780376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New drives are going to have BIGGER BLOCKS. < 1249780379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Megabyte-range. < 1249780381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:) < 1249780390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on the file system < 1249780398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1249780399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean drive level < 1249780421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe. But FS can use less < 1249780430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is what matters for space waste < 1249780440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it is *absurdly* painful and inefficient to do so. < 1249780440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm wasting space by never deleting anything and revisioning every single change < 1249780446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and persisting generic objects < 1249780452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of hand-tinkered formats < 1249780461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and megabyte sized blocks is absurd too < 1249780464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a *nix system < 1249780464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a big fuck-you-and-buy-a-big-drive, AnMaster :P < 1249780467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249780468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not absurd < 1249780473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249780484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not if you assume gnu userland :P < 1249780490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so, let's talk about how AnMaster is a dinosaur < 1249780515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *nix filesystems with large blocks store small files in the inode, IIRC. < 1249780529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck files. Fuuuuuuuuck files. < 1249780530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, /bin/ls is 108 KB. 64-bit GNU userland < 1249780535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Files are for bedwetters. < 1249780560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: please, tell me how many files you have in /bin, /usr/bin and /etc < 1249780562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in total < 1249780576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not /usr/lib too? < 1249780578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, /bin/busybox is 976K. < 1249780582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, /usr/lib too. < 1249780597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find /bin /usr/bin /etc /usr/lib | wc -l # *waits* < 1249780612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5907 here. < 1249780635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7908 here < 1249780638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, find. XD < 1249780642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but /usr/share contains lots of small files too < 1249780649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scans it too < 1249780658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4232. < 1249780659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what did you do btw < 1249780666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that didn't use find < 1249780669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls | wc -l < 1249780673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls -r? < 1249780675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So, if we have 1MB blocks, then your files would take up 7.9GB total (ignoring the larger files which will be rare). < 1249780682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not -r. < 1249780693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So, a FORTIETH of a modern-sized drive. < 1249780698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awful! < 1249780698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, waiting for /usr/share which mostly contain small files < 1249780702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unbearable! < 1249780703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 2 KB icons < 1249780705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and similar < 1249780707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including share, I get: 195622 < 1249780708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :locale files < 1249780716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, /usr/share still scanning here < 1249780720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the man pages too < 1249780721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I install documentation for everything) < 1249780722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what not < 1249780727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Remember the inode thing. < 1249780727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Clearly you need ext4. < 1249780738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I use that on my new laptop < 1249780741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is on my desktop < 1249780746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*notebook < 1249780748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# find /bin /usr/bin /etc /usr/lib /usr/lib32 /usr/share | wc -l < 1249780748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :154035 < 1249780754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? < 1249780766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't install docs for everything < 1249780774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:15] pikhq: AnMaster: *nix filesystems with large blocks store small files in the inode, IIRC. < 1249780785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... no I meant < 1249780788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *notebook < 1249780791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, um? < 1249780795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. They're not laptops any more. < 1249780799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no? < 1249780806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1249780806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249780812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use them on my lap < 1249780819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to well known risks < 1249780821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, seems Lenovo actually still refers to ThinkPads as laptops. < 1249780823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just asking for trouble. < 1249780841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: personally I don't care about my sperm, the issue is the comp overheating < 1249780852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it is "bärbar" in Swedish. Translates to "carry-able" < 1249780855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly you might need a beefy lap and some hardcore computation to do that, but < 1249780861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly "portable" < 1249780861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's some low standard for a portable computer! < 1249780866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1249780872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, literal translation... < 1249780875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is carryable < 1249780939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: personally I don't care about my sperm, the issue is the comp overheating <-- not yet. You will in the future I bet :P < 1249780947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you want to get children yourself < 1249780954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so approximately never then < 1249780955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, it is some biological instinct < 1249780960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes it will happen < 1249780964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is killing animals for food < 1249780969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your bare hands and some crude tools < 1249780971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you done that lately? < 1249780972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant, on the level or hormones < 1249780982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You mean that most people *don't* do that? < 1249780984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reproduction instinct is on the exact same level < 1249780988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249781005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't go out hunting every night armed with barely anything, then you are "denying" your instincts just as much as I do < 1249781009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they use guns < 1249781015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't make a gun by sharpening a piece of rock < 1249781034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Sure you can. < 1249781047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just needs a lot of bootstrapping. < 1249781048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call gates are fun < 1249781054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obsolete < 1249781067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: care to answer me? < 1249781078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what line < 1249781085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of the above ↑ < 1249781098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can't make a gun by sharpening a piece of rock <-- I agree with what pikhq said there < 1249781102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / / < 1249781103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that part. < 1249781111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: they use guns <-- true < 1249781116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that part. < 1249781122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part where i wasn't talking to pikhq. < 1249781139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the reproduction instinct is on the exact same level <-- hm. not sure about that. I'm pretty sure that the "food" instinct is "get food some way" not "that specific way" < 1249781155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I guess all those neanderthal hunters were just really inventive. < 1249781161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every night < 1249781174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. heard about learning? < 1249781181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even animals can do it < 1249781196 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Animals such as these Sapiens in particular. < 1249781199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's totally not my point, but < 1249781207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is that there are plenty of people with no wish to breed at all < 1249781231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as we don't do just about every other instinct we have < 1249781234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, elks for example. Children follow their mother to learn what is editable and what isn't < 1249781239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing what she eats < 1249781246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw this on some nature program on TV years ago < 1249781252 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if it has a read-only switch, it's not editable < 1249781256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When in doubt, try and steer the conversation to the previous topic." < 1249781271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahd < 1249781273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1249781291 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/pics/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=Assorted%2FPinkFedoraRot.jpg Is this hat not the gaudiest thing you've ever seen? < 1249781292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Not just Sapiens. < 1249781301 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hence "in particular" < 1249781303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eatable I meant except it isn't spelled that < 1249781304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1249781307 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than "specifically" < 1249781309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homo neanderthalensis, notably, was more intelligent that Homo sapiens. ;) < 1249781311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1249781313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so, are you seriously saying that every single human gets the overpowering urge to have children for the rest of their lives? < 1249781317 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edible? < 1249781318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes or no < 1249781320 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bigger brain != more intelligent < 1249781324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yep that's it < 1249781325 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Not at that scale anyway) < 1249781332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Sorry. < 1249781339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm suggesting it is a strong instinct. Not one possible to overcome < 1249781343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: They were demonstrably intelligent, at least. < 1249781352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but harder to overcome than "must hunt food myself" < 1249781352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tool creation, graves, etc.) < 1249781362 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure. But not demonstrably intelligent enough to build fucking cities, so we kinda win on that one. < 1249781362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at the population of the world < 1249781372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you suggest anything else :P < 1249781372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone want to snap AnMaster back to reality < 1249781388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Eh, that's a matter of failing at the ice age is all. < 1249781415 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Neanderthals were around for longer than we have been around. < 1249781443 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In all that time they never figured out anywhere near the level of technology we had in some 10K years. < 1249781444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/pics/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=Assorted%2FPinkFedoraRot.jpg <-- wow. is it new? < 1249781445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Touché. < 1249781448 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So no, they just f***ing lose. < 1249781455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You're misplacing the urge. < 1249781460 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just bought it :P < 1249781463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The urge is to have sex; the evolutionary intention is for reproduction. < 1249781477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the urge isn't "I really want some GOD DAMN BABIES". < 1249781482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GOD. DAMN. BABIES." < 1249781489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually there is more to it than that. Do you think a baby crying sounds horrible? < 1249781493 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For breakfast. < 1249781499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet you see older people that seems to find it cute. < 1249781503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That has nothing to do with actually having babies. < 1249781508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's to do with once you've got one. < 1249781509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Do not put the baby on the plate? < 1249781512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there are childrearing instincts. < 1249781520 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DO put the baby on the plate! :P < 1249781520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are not fuck-to-make-a-kid instincts; there are fuck instincts. < 1249781523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is true. But you are affected by people *around* you having babies < 1249781528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "wow I want that too" < 1249781533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249781536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're crazy. < 1249781538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not yet at this age. Thank god for it. < 1249781543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can conclude that you have a uterus from that statement. < 1249781544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1249781544 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the instinct to have sex is "make babies", I think it's "put my penis in that" < 1249781547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is that the new Baby 3000?!?!?!?!?!?!" < 1249781551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Omigosh! I want one!" < 1249781551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1249781565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no. You can conclude I read too much bilogy < 1249781566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, wifey! Can I put my penis in you? I want to make a baby 3000." < 1249781569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biology* < 1249781577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bilogy: It's like biology but full of absolute bilge. < 1249781584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1249781589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, it's the study of bile. < 1249781593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nothing else. < 1249781594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249781621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor bilologists. < 1249781667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, apparently men feel some sort of "take care of babies" instincts too. Not as strongly though. At least that is what I have heard. < 1249781684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, take care of ALREADY EXISTING BABIES. < 1249781691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1249781714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but see what I said above when you joked about model 3000 < 1249781717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, night < 1249781724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you've satisfied your "Let me vigourously move my penis inwards and outwards of this opening" urge, a little thing appears and you have to satisfy your "Let me stop this thing making that noise" urge. < 1249781739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This helps reproduction, but at no stage is the urge "Let me create a thing that makes that noise". < 1249781824 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How strong is the paternal instinct in humans? Arguably the two instincts you've presented are by two different people :P < 1249781833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, yeah. < 1249781852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that males, at least, don't get the urge to make a whiney pooping vomiting thing. < 1249781853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249781882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…and thus concluding the argument that I could have one from the start by pointing to a sales chart of condoms. < 1249781886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/one/won/ < 1249781909 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some people wandering about Manhattan giving away "Obama condoms" < 1249781947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds... awesome. < 1249781994 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell they're PURELY a joke. There is actually no political message at all. < 1249781998 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made me go "8-D" < 1249782010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: That's awesome. < 1249782212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.obamacondoms.com/ < 1249782222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who says experience is necessary?" x_x < 1249782229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For the elitist penis" < 1249782244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.practicesafepolicy.com/ < 1249782245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god < 1249782247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :McCain condoms < 1249782254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1249782264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just died. < 1249782288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thepalincondom.com/ When abortion is not an option! < 1249782292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's their actual slogan. < 1249782312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I presume they come with a hole in them? < 1249782319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249782327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, those are Catholic Condoms. < 1249782338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, no. < 1249782357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catholic condoms allow all the sperm to go through. < 1249782360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, every sperm is sacred. < 1249782368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a very big hole. < 1249782507 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249784773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, "kilobit" is now pissing me off. < 1249784776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 1000 bits. < 1249784811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kibibit? < 1249784819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(couldn't sleep < 1249784823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will try again soon) < 1249784826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024 bits. < 1249784835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is wrong with that < 1249784850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A kilobit is used to mean 1000 bytes. < 1249784853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kilo- means 1000. < 1249784855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit means bit. < 1249784857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 bits. < 1249784860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits < 1249784862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bytes < 1249784862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := 125 bytes. < 1249784863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1249784869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and? < 1249784874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "kilobyte" is not 1024. Kilo means 1000. < 1249784878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it pissing you off < 1249784880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, I am switching to the following unit system: < 1249784890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SI prefixes, including kilo- mean that. The resulting unit means that. < 1249784901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kibi is the retarded nearest-power-of-2 prefixes. < 1249784905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as mebi, etc. < 1249784910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, most people don't use the kibi and such < 1249784917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A byte is B < 1249784918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather they use the SI ones to mean 1024 < 1249784930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kilo- is lowercase k, just like SI. < 1249784935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 kB = 1000 bytes. < 1249784939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Congrats, you're using the *standard*. < 1249784943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ki is kibi. < 1249784947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 KiB = 1024 bytes. < 1249784955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, most people use 1000 < 1249784959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like HD manufacturers do < 1249784989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well. last I looked windows didn't in the properties window < 1249784994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you that was on XP < 1249784998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might have changed < 1249785003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but most people don't look at that. < 1249785013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the difference usually doesn't matter, so those who don't know what it means won't suffer from this. < 1249785021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But from now on, I- < 1249785021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait. < 1249785026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think K is the SI prefix, not k. < 1249785027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me check. < 1249785041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if B is byte, what is bit then < 1249785042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, note that CPU cycles, ethernet, wireless bands, ... also use the 1000 system < 1249785047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bit" < 1249785053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kbit? < 1249785059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about bits per second < 1249785065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that bits/s < 1249785070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK, SI. < 1249785070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or bps < 1249785074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's k, but M and G and T. < 1249785077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1249785078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT MAKES SENSE?! < 1249785089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :historical reasons I bet < 1249785091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: K is a unit. < 1249785097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that < 1249785102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better reason < 1249785103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know but they do it for h, da, d, c, m, u, n, p, f, a, z and y too. < 1249785114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And everything above k - M, G, T, P, E, Z, Y is uppercase. < 1249785117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO FUCK THAT SHIT. < 1249785118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1249785133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, da? < 1249785141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249785143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deca. < 1249785143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten. < 1249785145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249785148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 decabytes! < 1249785150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h would be? < 1249785161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hundred. < 1249785163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hecto. < 1249785166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 5 decibytes? < 1249785171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dici? < 1249785174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deci = 0.1 < 1249785177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1249785178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dici then < 1249785181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 1/8 < 1249785185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249785194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1249785206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deca -> dici, deci -> ? < 1249785209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249785213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have an issue here < 1249785214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix < 1249785218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d and da. < 1249785221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. kB = 1000 bytes. MB = 1000 kB. GB = 1000 MB. TB = 1000 GB. PB = 1000 TB. And kiB = 1024 bytes. MiB = 1024 kiB. GiB = 1024 MiB. TB = 1024 GiB. PB = 1024 TiB. < 1249785231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249785232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1249785237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. kB = 1000 bytes. MB = 1000 kB. GB = 1000 MB. TB = 1000 GB. PB = 1000 TB. And kiB = 1024 bytes. MiB = 1024 kiB. GiB = 1024 MiB. TiB = 1024 GiB. PiB = 1024 TiB. < 1249785239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there. < 1249785242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249785247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When defining new measures, use the non-i versions. < 1249785250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONE. < 1249785264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to confuse things. this is not same as SNMP MIB < 1249785293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : When defining new measures, use the non-i versions. <-- nop, makes less sense for stuff like ram < 1249785299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1249785311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that aren't talking directly to silicon. < 1249785317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249785393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pebibyte sure is awkward to say. < 1249785445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/577068.txt?key=jap84dhxsagpjw0jgks8g < 1249785448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official standard. < 1249785457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will now make sure this survives pastie by repeating it in-channel. < 1249785465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SI-friendly information storage units < 1249785465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249785465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 kB (kilobyte) = 1000 bytes < 1249785466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 MB (megabyte) = 1000 kB < 1249785466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 GB (gigabyte) = 1000 MB < 1249785466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 TB (terabyte) = 1000 GB < 1249785467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 PB (petabyte) = 1000 TB < 1249785469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249785471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 kiB (kibibyte) = 1024 bytes < 1249785473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 MiB (mebibyte) = 1024 kiB < 1249785475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 GiB (gibibyte) = 1024 MiB < 1249785477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 TiB (tebibyte) = 1024 GiB < 1249785479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 PiB (pebibyte) = 1024 TiB < 1249785481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pebibyte sure is awkward to say. <-- don't think so? < 1249785481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249785483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1249785483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When defining new measures, use the non-bi units whenever reasonable (just < 1249785485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about everything that doesn't talk directly to silicon). < 1249785487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byte is wrong < 1249785487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(END OF FILE) < 1249785489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1249785491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's done, and I can get on with my life. < 1249785491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is 8 bits < 1249785493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's your mom < 1249785498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need 10 bit bytes < 1249785503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the SI ones < 1249785515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like kilobyte and kibibite < 1249785516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249785520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, byte is a fundamental unit < 1249785523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where byte = 10 bits < 1249785536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, less fun :/ < 1249785646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : now night again < 1249785655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why sleep < 1249785657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who sleeps. < 1249785793 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your MOM. < 1249785870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249786729 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249786931 0 :TimMcD!n=Tim@75-169-253-196.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249786948 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249787144 0 :TimMcD!n=Tim@75-169-253-196.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249787505 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! < 1249787526 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to run an esolang idea by you guys. You up for it? ;) < 1249787547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably. < 1249787560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be the first time we've been on topic this week. < 1249787566 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe < 1249787567 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://etherpad.com/esolangideas < 1249787568 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1249787597 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the link to a doc describing the lang < 1249787610 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea? bad idea? The kind of idea that makes bile rise in your throat? < 1249787631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fighting pitiful Internet ATM. < 1249787665 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm I'll type some of it our here then. < 1249787721 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea is based around blocks made up of rows, which are made up of cells. A cell '[]' contains 4 characters, two for the identifier (like classes/types) and two for the method/block identifier. A basic hello world: < 1249787738 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[so0][Hello, world!] < 1249787755 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is standard output identifier, 0 being the identifier for the block that prints out the next cell < 1249787769 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rr, sorry, its actually < 1249787779 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[so0][c0][Hello, world!] < 1249787782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it now. < 1249787784 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c0 is a generator for strings < 1249787786 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah ok < 1249787849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not awful, but quite interesting. < 1249787856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Refreshingly unique semantics. < 1249787857 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249787860 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1249787883 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groovy, thanks! < 1249787906 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like there needs to be a betterway to generate strings < 1249787924 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of somethign like: < 1249787925 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[c0][H][e][l][l][o]... < 1249787937 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would make it even harder to read < 1249787941 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be a pain to type out < 1249788014 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggestions? < 1249788024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None ATM. < 1249788039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit distracted ATM. < 1249788043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Þou? < 1249788513 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :すめません、えごがわかりまsか? < 1249788697 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who else is looking ati t? http://etherpad.com/esolangideas < 1249788741 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249789531 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woooh patience? < 1249789540 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, rule 90 tie: http://www.zazzle.com/rule_90_tie-151155765045023221 < 1249789906 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249789922 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249790368 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249792543 0 :TimMcD!n=Tim@75-169-253-196.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249792550 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1249792558 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here? < 1249792578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1249792790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collapse the probability wave. < 1249792812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249792938 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, haskell AND esoteric languages I see. < 1249792952 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://etherpad.com/esolangideas , any thoughts? I understand that string handling could be/should be better... < 1249794016 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249795330 0 :TimMcD!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249796423 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249798852 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249799407 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249804799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249804800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249804996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Who else is looking ati t? http://etherpad.com/esolangideas <-- if only it loaded < 1249805009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it needs javascript < 1249805918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249806985 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it does < 1249806995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1249807119 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty neat, actually < 1249809419 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-37.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249809946 0 :MigoMipo!n=chatzill@84-217-11-227.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249811445 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://etherpad.com/ep/pad/export/esolangideas/latest?format=txt < 1249811859 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-142-060.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249813752 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249815144 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-142-060.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249815885 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249816521 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249816898 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249819363 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249820734 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249821514 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249821616 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249821783 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249824161 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-2-207.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249824357 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249824622 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249825057 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-8-203.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249825698 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249825701 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glio < 1249825765 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249825789 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: i had a dream about you < 1249825795 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::X < 1249825800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i was angry at you for some reason < 1249825805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i couldn't talk. < 1249825850 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascinating < 1249825862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terribly < 1249826948 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249826983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello vagabonds! < 1249827016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: obviously there aren't any here, you didn't get a reply < 1249827026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vagabonds are very humble/secretive, pick one < 1249827128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:42:18 pikhq, haskell AND esoteric languages I see. < 1249827137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how I sarcastically read this: < 1249827142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck AND esoteric languages I see. < 1249827178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has many of the good points of an esolang, whilst actually being practical < 1249827180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder we like it < 1249827187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:03:29 maybe it needs javascript < 1249827187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i look forward to the day where every web page requires javascript, just to see you demand all links start with gopher:// < 1249827199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249827204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replying to AnMaster < 1249827220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think people should use gopher to serve up the Javascript for HTML pages < 1249827227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because etherpad is actually a neat and useful thingy < 1249827237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's gobby, but online so you can just throw someone a link) < 1249827403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it wasn't too good until recently due to being slow; it got better when the makers decided to focus on it instead of the web application backend thinamagic they built it on) < 1249827633 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249827652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1249827705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sb < 1249827709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249827729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a chemistry pun < 1249827733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sb = anti-M0ny < 1249827761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1249827766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how likely is it that anyone would get that? < 1249827773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty low, I imagine < 1249827820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've been waiting months to make that pun < 1249827826 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249828026 0 :MigoMipo!n=chatzill@84-217-11-227.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249828121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric < 1249828124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration." < 1249828129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/98rob/seriously_rnc_oh_its_on_now/c0btuoq < 1249828149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pfft, the free market can do that. < 1249828159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : With magic. < 1249828231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Funny how such a good comment is followed in two steps by: "tl;dr, but upvoted and made this comment so that I can come back tomorrow after I've had a good night's sleep.") < 1249828264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Six paragraphs, one is very short (being the title), two are short.) < 1249828277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe we should just start prescribing ritalin to *everyone*.) < 1249828848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You've got to give libertarians *some* credit. ... I can't come up with any reason why. < 1249828910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are advancing stupidity research! < 1249828966 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they made snow crash possible? < 1249828972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. That's what I was looking for. < 1249828981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snow Crash - some definition of possible < 1249828995 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the writing of it < 1249829014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, did they take away all of his state-given resources or something? < 1249829016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this gave him superpowers? < 1249829027 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just < 1249829031 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without libertarians < 1249829040 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wouldn't have had the anarchocapitalist setting < 1249829046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hmm. Well, *one* actual thing about libertarians: they take what the Republicans *claim* to be in support of and actually *support* it. < 1249829047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good! then we wouldn't have as many shitty books < 1249829059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, they're at least *honest* about what they believe. < 1249829078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ain't much, but it's something. < 1249829400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols that yourworldoftext.com uses repeated ajax requests instead of comet < 1249829407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't people learn from the counter? < 1249829489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know the major problem that "ZOMG FREE MARKET" people have? An ideal free market is like an ideal gas: it doesn't *exist*. It's just a useful model. < 1249829521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, no. < 1249829525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made of magic and fluffiness. < 1249829533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why, if you try and touch it to make it better, it turns into rage itself. < 1249829536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And kills everyone. < 1249829543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No matter how small the change. < 1249829546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUH. < 1249829550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, what you're saying is that, if you get rid of all governments, it all magically works? < 1249829559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hooray"? < 1249829560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you need a government to guard the free market, duh. < 1249829568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also to enforce property! < 1249829574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a completely free market would fail because people dislike immigrants < 1249829584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, *that's* ... a new one < 1249829587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without free migration you can't have a free market < 1249829588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the government would do... Half of what the retards dislike. < 1249829595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i missed several steps of logical deduction or are you on crack < 1249829599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: precisely! < 1249829603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(antitrust regulation) < 1249829604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise you don't have a free market in labour < 1249829609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nooo who said antitrust < 1249829613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they just stop other people interfering < 1249829614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249829623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Right, antitrust. < 1249829624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249829635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's far too indirect for the libtards to understand! < 1249829636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's only about half a step of logical deduction there < 1249829665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of idiotic economics, I am going to carefully consider any PBA suggestion that doesn't come from BobTHJ :-P < 1249829687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIEE < 1249829688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My goal is to slowly continue to add information to my database until < 1249829688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the full state of Agora is tracked." < 1249829692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill him! Kill him with FIRE! < 1249829697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...okay, I'm done < 1249830065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE DIE < 1249831266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/359578 < 1249831277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, guess what chipset I have? :D < 1249831286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that one < 1249831294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, I was going to guess "not that one". < 1249831321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like an interesting game though < 1249831818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw I found a rather odd software. A train driving simulator. < 1249831852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds... riveting < 1249831860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drive from both ends at once and rip it in two! < 1249831880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, there was only one supported train in the version in ubuntu at least. < 1249831885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was a single ended one < 1249831892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://openbve.trainsimcentral.co.uk/ < 1249831917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, 3D graphics ran smooth of the laptop, but cpu fan ended up working at highest speed. < 1249831935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsurprising < 1249831944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics calculations? < 1249831950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my best guess < 1249832008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION builds warzone2100 using gentoo portage. better gpu on there :P < 1249832021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not better gpu < 1249832023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better drivers < 1249832036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gpus should be somewhat equal < 1249832044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm I wonder how much video memory the intel one has... < 1249832053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in. dedicated. Not shared main memory < 1249832063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1249832078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what model is it? < 1249832080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMA what < 1249832082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. the gerforce 7600 has 512 MB RAM < 1249832083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1249832087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it 256 < 1249832088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1249832089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1249832093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well lets see... < 1249832150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 07) is all lspci says < 1249832161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what mobo chipset < 1249832184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses lshw < 1249832193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses a duck < 1249832288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closest I can find is "host bridge"... hm < 1249832315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is "Mobile 4 Series Chipset Memory Controller Hub". Lots of details in that... NOT < 1249832332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, just tell me what laptop you bought. < 1249832336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R500 integrated? < 1249832340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, *notebook <_< >_> < 1249832351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R500 yes. *looks for specific model number* < 1249832360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter < 1249832364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they only offer one integrated gpu < 1249832367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on it < 1249832371 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249832404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GMA 4500MHD. It can use over 512MB of your RAM if you want. < 1249832414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. < 1249832440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, main memory has to compete bandwidth with CPU though < 1249832448 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249832457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, both graphics and programs running on CPU will use the same memory < 1249832458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shruggggggg < 1249832458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ < 1249832463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*drop that line < 1249832469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi! < 1249832478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all < 1249832662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the joke in IWC was quite awful today, don't you agree? < 1249832683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may, eventually < 1249832694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darth and droids more than made up for it though :D < 1249832720 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249832741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D to iwc < 1249832822 0 :MigoMipo!n=chatzill@84-217-11-227.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249832943 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249833265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once again finds himself pausing instinctively for Comments on a Postcard to finish loading < 1249833288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dammit) < 1249833290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249833306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://armorgames.com/play/4309/this-is-the-only-level this is great < 1249833363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried it a bit yesterday < 1249833393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i got to the dreaded pink strip level < 1249833400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stage < 1249833407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol@stage 13 < 1249833421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tell me that's a game < 1249833421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait that wasn't it < 1249833425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i opened it < 1249833425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it is < 1249833427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's one level < 1249833429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over and over again < 1249833430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but different < 1249833434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the fun < 1249833443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different how < 1249833454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: try it and see. < 1249833463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i time. < 1249833466 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in < 1249833472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gave up at that level "arrows" that treated the mouse (trackpad in my case) as arrow keys or something < 1249833486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: easy < 1249833490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *stage < 1249833493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stage 15 has me stumped < 1249833496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1249833520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect it would be easier with a genuine mouse < 1249833527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1249833530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to go left and right < 1249833532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1249833545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well and click < 1249833651 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My time was around 7:40 IIRC (did it yesterday) < 1249833661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, for all of it? < 1249833667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, all of it < 1249833668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on stage 15 and 8 minutes in... < 1249833673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do stage 15 < 1249833675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm desperate! < 1249833678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the time to refresh one < 1249833678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one is it < 1249833683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the button does nothing and there's a green plank < 1249833683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Refresh... < 1249833688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, F5 < 1249833693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... x_x < 1249833704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JAVA GAMES ARE AN UNTRESSPASSABLE SANDBOX < 1249833708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS MY MENTAL MODEL < 1249833708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249833710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLASH < 1249833742 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249833745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey it reset to 5 minutes < 1249833746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uber cool < 1249833777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it get hard at some poine? < 1249833778 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*point < 1249833779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I guess it can't count the time you spent on level 15 :-) < 1249833781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least interesting < 1249833783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No < 1249833788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not really < 1249833796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes < 1249833800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is fun. < 1249833812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not hard per se < 1249833814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many levels are there? < 1249833815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to think a little < 1249833817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an amusing design but not /really/ interesting < 1249833817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1249833818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 30 < 1249833822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 IIRC < 1249833822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but each one takes like 10 seconds < 1249833835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249833855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249833858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does stage 18 work... < 1249833860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the collapsing one < 1249833860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhhh < 1249833863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you go on top of right < 1249833958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i managed to do something very clever on "time to refresh" < 1249833986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1249833989 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refreshed. < 1249833991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249833998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1249834000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you're meant to. < 1249834002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click continue < 1249834006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1249834009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249834012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah confused me too < 1249834019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right < 1249834029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just assumed it wasn't the correct thing to do < 1249834039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank the foo it was that short. < 1249834051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to finish my thesis today, and there are still 42 TODO comments in it. < 1249834068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249834068 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recommendation: shut off IRC < 1249834072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooooooo < 1249834078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway stage 24 is the odd < 1249834091 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's probably the crap < 1249834097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1249834098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one was 24 again? < 1249834101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or one of them < 1249834107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPPERCASE < 1249834113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1249834126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, it wasn't that odd. < 1249834133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL CAPSLOCK < 1249834138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I did try shift first. < 1249834144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DITTO < 1249834171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the idea of "mime's folly"? < 1249834178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: mimes < 1249834180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know when they like < 1249834182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make fake objects < 1249834183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with their hands < 1249834185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they look real < 1249834187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and press < 1249834196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically there's an invisible wall.) < 1249834208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty possible not to notice the wall, though. < 1249834220 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One level was annoying without QWERTY, I forget which one it was < 1249834226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: not imo < 1249834233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: center keyboard < 1249834234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The "middle keyboarder" or some such. < 1249834241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I forget the number < 1249834248 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used TFGH, right? < 1249834268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249834273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lawd@28 < 1249834315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was fun < 1249834324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:57:62.5, 63 deaths < 1249834325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249834335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With my layout those are FETH... could have been worse, but still < 1249834370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I.e. those are in the respective places of FETH on a QWERTY) < 1249834433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, just in case you aren't aware there are other games featuring the elephant < 1249834435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh now I've addicted myself to flash games again < 1249834438 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://armorgames.com/play/1719/elephant-rave < 1249834438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: there ARE? < 1249834441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://armorgames.com/play/2893/achievement-unlocked < 1249834442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love that guy already! < 1249834446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly others < 1249834451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i loved how it was just... an elephant < 1249834452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for no reason! < 1249834455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://armorgames.com/play/3102/run-elephant-run < 1249834466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's it < 1249834480 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Achievement Unlocked was somewhat amusing < 1249834500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow elephant rave is x_x < 1249834528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay god that was pointless < 1249834553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy hell oklopol < 1249834556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try achievement unlocked < 1249834601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, there was one elephant-themed 4k intro. It wasn't in the "serious 4k" category, but people still voted for it: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=53606 < 1249834602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was like completely the opposite of what kind of games i like, i want to think inside the box, and have complex puzzles < 1249834617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :achievement unlocked is like this is the only level + 34785345873485478583745 < 1249834619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this was the other way around < 1249834722 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249834760 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249834878 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249835036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are only 34785345873485478583746 levels? how frugal. < 1249835040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, managed that in 501 seconds and only had to check one hint < 1249835074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it before though, so it doesn't quite count < 1249835074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1249835117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80% done in 400 seconds, but I'm not going to try any time-trialings. < 1249835124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my thesis! You bastards! < 1249835125 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249835133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1249835142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I maintain my recommendation < 1249835157 0 :MigoMipo!n=chatzill@84-217-11-227.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249835164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee, i jumped top-right and killed myself like 5 times on the spike < 1249835166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :century < 1249835167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :score < 1249835207 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly < 1249835250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly < 1249835251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on the horizontal and vertical confusions, I hope total confusion is not "all direction keys at once", since I don't think I can get it with this keyboard. It's not, right? < 1249835251 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64| I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly < 1249835258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1249835264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, it's not < 1249835268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, good. < 1249835311 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249835323 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249835352 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249835359 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249835368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was going to suggest someone ban fizzie, but then... < 1249835383 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-114-147.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249835398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is liftoff 3-2-1-fly up? < 1249835410 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1249835416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-2-1-0-fly? < 1249835419 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1249835422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1249835439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: please kickban fizzie. it's for his own good, he has a thesis to finish. < 1249835557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: how come 0-1-2-3-4-5 doesn't get that < 1249835564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can count to 5 < 1249835574 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get what < 1249835576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liftoff? < 1249835582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can count to 5!" < 1249835599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you messed up and hit something twice < 1249835612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1249835670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i must have < 1249835671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it now < 1249835684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :890 seconds. Please stop with the elephants. < 1249835721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why all those squares hide you < 1249835726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 1167 < 1249835750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have http://armorgames.com/play/1719/elephant-rave and http://armorgames.com/play/3102/run-elephant-run to play, anyway! < 1249835772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried, but they seemed to be more skill-based. < 1249835780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you even "finish" them? < 1249835785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does not EXCUSE YOU < 1249835785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they end < 1249835790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1249835797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not "gonna". < 1249835966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's programmer's credit < 1249835971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-2? < 1249835976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type the name < 1249835990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that turned my elephant pink. maybe i mistyped. < 1249836002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, must have been a different number < 1249836054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's speedy downfall :P < 1249836089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opposite of escape velocity < 1249836093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, lol, the numbers change elephant colour < 1249836101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i must have done jmt02 or something at first < 1249836150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i did speedy downfall < 1249836150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95% < 1249836190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be something with that orange starting point < 1249836307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I'm stuck < 1249836315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what's the seat thing < 1249836322 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seat thing? < 1249836354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get off your seats < 1249836377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's the one I had to lookup < 1249836387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There /is/ a hint button, you know < 1249836397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but I might see other ones. < 1249836410 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#32: Get Off Your Seats = Jump for 10 seconds nonstop < 1249836507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, it told me I entered the contra code < 1249836508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I didn't. < 1249836526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it just needs UUDDLRLR < 1249836538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did that in another app i think maybe < 1249836539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by mistake xD < 1249836548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so konami code right < 1249836550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contra confused me < 1249836564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: too much free tiem is completion right < 1249836565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*time < 1249836568 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1249836576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just have to liftoff < 1249836642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1249836654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249836656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 4 3 2 1 0 < 1249836660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i was on the right track < 1249836662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have told me < 1249836761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2091 seconds < 1249836762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1249836764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank fucking god < 1249836827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Palin makes me ashamed of my species. < 1249836840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assassinate her < 1249836871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I intend to convince biologists that there are two extant subspecies of Homo sapiens. < 1249836882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homo sapiens sapiens, and Homo sapiens stultus. < 1249836885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha run elephant run is fun < 1249836892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, homo sapiens sapiens and homo spaiens palin < 1249836895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sapiens < 1249836908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Stultus covers more than Palin. < 1249836928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249837132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run elephant run on easy was uh < 1249837133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not easy < 1249837262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION discovers to his surprise that pikhq is _not_ mangling latin there < 1249837289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION then swats ehird for doing exactly that -----### < 1249837298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1249837302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're so horrible to me. < 1249837304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries < 1249837338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: My roommate studied Latin for 4 years in high school. < 1249837355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mangled Latin makes him wince, and it's starting to make *me* wince. < 1249837371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray! < 1249837412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray indeed. < 1249837419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION expects to be hit by Lex Muphriensis on the matter soon < 1249837423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday (well, today) i walked around town barefoot at 3am :D < 1249837440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fun < 1249837493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the weekend? i'd be worried about broken beer bottles... < 1249837509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the streets were all smooth < 1249837520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few little pieces of glass here and there but perfectly walkable < 1249837534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also warm and very quiet < 1249837568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clear sky, too; I swear if I looked above in just the right way I could see the earth's curvature :P < 1249837966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, i just realised there's no "random video" button on youtube < 1249837999 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249838042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you could simulate it < 1249838055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to all the videos linked easily from youtube pages, go to every one of the related and same person ones in random order < 1249838059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like half an hour < 1249838065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just use your now fucked up recommendations < 1249838120 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249838287 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249838769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d glasses are amazing < 1249838826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :US military expenditures: $623 billion. Rest of the world combined: $500 billion. < 1249838829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go be sad now. < 1249838838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, combined? < 1249838843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know it was that bad < 1249838846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1249838876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This... Is sheer madness. < 1249838890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, it is not Sparta. < 1249838926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look on the bright side of it. even with _that_ expenditure, they got trouble with Iraq + Afghanistan. < 1249838969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because guerilla warfare > organised warfare. < 1249838979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discovery: drinking while wearing 3d glasses is hard < 1249838981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: most revolutions) < 1249839388 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249839441 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249839834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does Wikipedia's preference page want to know my gender :\ < 1249839852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's for languages other than English < 1249839858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can use the right form of words like 'the' < 1249839863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optional: used for gender-correct addressing by the software. This information will be public. < 1249839875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure it isn't "he/her" or something? < 1249839888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, that's monumentally stupid; why does it need to be PUBLIC? < 1249839894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it could be relevant in English, but IIRC it comes up a lot more elsewhere < 1249839900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's public because it's shown to other people < 1249839905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1249839913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, even something as simple as "user contributions" could change depending on the gender of the user < 1249839918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in various foreign languages < 1249839924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249839925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's in the sidebar, for everyone < 1249839935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought English was genderist < 1249839972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does it do if you leave it unspecified? < 1249839976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why can't it do that for everyone? < 1249839978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1249840029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it does something stupid, like assume the user is male or something < 1249840040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given what I know of MediaWiki, that wouldn't surprise me in the least < 1249840080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait till they find out that some people consider themselves neither! we'll get two sliders < 1249840084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maleness and femaleness < 1249840087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have to add up to 100 < 1249840093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that, it randomly weights which to use < 1249840104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't engineering wonderful < 1249840206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one slider, obviously; the bit to one side is maleness, to the other side is femaleness < 1249840218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, the shape of the UI enforces the add up to 100 < 1249840262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's an interaction designer solution! < 1249840273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249840275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the engineers would probably expose the two as text boxes < 1249840288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, as query-string parameters < 1249840290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm joking as to how the engineering mindset would solve the problem of "but what about people who aren't either?" < 1249840306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you haven't even considered furries yet... < 1249840321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't furries have a gender? < 1249840322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, furries don't think they're spiritually animals; that's otherkin < 1249840329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they still, presumably, have a gender < 1249840331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that depends on species < 1249840341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are ameoba otherkin < 1249840341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I know that the Guild (which is responsible for the Guild Council I mention sometimes) recognises at least 7 genders < 1249840351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err... which ones? < 1249840355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're rather strong on equal opportunities and political correctness < 1249840362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't tell me they think transgender is a gender in itself < 1249840367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249840370 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249840371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1249840392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: male, female, transsexual male, transsexual female, transgendered male, transgendered female, and indeterminate < 1249840401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1249840408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we would not want to engender a transgression here < 1249840414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transgendered male; also known as "female". (Or "male", depending on which way aroudn it is). < 1249840418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*around it is.) < 1249840450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And transsexual male/female, also known as female/male (or, again, male/female). < 1249840467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion, that list is identical to "male, female, indeterminate". < 1249840486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they installed gender-neutral toilets, so as to be able to give a set of toilets that people in the five less common genders could go into without arguments < 1249840501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT FOUR OF THE "LESS COMMON GENDERS" AREN'T GENDERS! < 1249840514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249840567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just has to mention the gender neutral pronoun h'orsh'it he recently saw somewhere < 1249840687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just to confirm, if someone is a transgendered male-to-female and then has a sex change operation, even though their legal documents say female your university still glasses them as transsexual male/female? < 1249840694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*classes < 1249840696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever < 1249840697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird definition of politically correct < 1249840710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the distinction between transsexual and transgendered is whether there's been a sex-change operation or not, IIRC < 1249840725 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1249840726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know that; read my line again < 1249840729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't what I asked < 1249840751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who was a transgender male-to-female and then had a sex change operation is a transsexual, but their gender isn't "transsexual female", it's "female" < 1249840754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, there are biological differences... < 1249840766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a list of genders < 1249840768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a list of sexes < 1249840776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you don't want to go into how many sexual orientations they recognise, I don't actually know myself but it's a lot < 1249840799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual? :P < 1249840810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249840811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's non-sex/gender orientations too < 1249840999 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget pansexual < 1249841010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pans are hot < 1249841029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: but pansexuality is just a kind of bisexual imo < 1249841046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on wp, polysexual: "Polysexuality refers to people who are attracted to more than one gender or sex but do not wish to identify as bisexual because it implies that there are only two binary genders or sexes." < 1249841052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, for instance, is just a qualm with the name < 1249841055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a different position < 1249841059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not recommend sex with hot pans < 1249841061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think pansexuality is pretty similar < 1249841163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Wikipedia, < 1249841169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I said "use MathML when possible", I meant that. < 1249841183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We clearly have very, very different definitions of "possible". < 1249841193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's probably to do with what's possible for MediaWiki < 1249841196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably not a lot < 1249841198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "6 ! = 1 \times 2 \times 3 \times 4 \times 5 \times 6 = 720. \ " < 1249841214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, totally impossible. < 1249841220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and there are actually semi-official guides telling you how to force things to render as images not HTML < 1249841224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries purging < 1249841226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that all the equations in an article look the same < 1249841237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, how do you purge again? < 1249841239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?action=purge does nothing < 1249841251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... MediaWiki's math rendering is... TeX... < 1249841255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ?action=purge, which if you're logged in appears to do nothing < 1249841264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, it's some custom format that thinks it's TeX, IIRC < 1249841274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they use real LaTeX nowadays < 1249841276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, it must be a bug of some sort; "0! = 1 \ " renders as an image < 1249841280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... They don't actually use TeX? MURDER. < 1249841290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: TeX doesn't do pngs. < 1249841300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks very like TeX, but it's less powerful, presumably to prevent people writing infinite loops into the code of the document < 1249841308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you, incidentally, use pdftex? < 1249841310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not TeX, either. < 1249841316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XeTeX? Hehehehe < 1249841342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, hmm < 1249841347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe MediaWiki knows that Safari doesn't do MathML < 1249841350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There's the TeX program, and there's the TeX language. < 1249841351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249841353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an overly clever definition of "possible" < 1249841360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: adding spacing commands like "\ " is the recommended way of forcing non-html iirc < 1249841368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: MathML. < 1249841369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not HTML. < 1249841376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IIRC, you use negative-width spaces, to really force non-HTML < 1249841383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249841383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people put that in the articles < 1249841389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all the equations look the same < 1249841393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus defeating the point of the preference < 1249841471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes \ in a user space copy < 1249841541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page "User:Ehird/sandbox" (links | delete) has been moved to "User:Ehird/Sandbox" (edit | links | revert | log) < 1249841578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed, removing "\ " fixes it < 1249841606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does MathML have a code for "space added specifically to stop this rendering as anything but an image", I wonder? < 1249841641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249841654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, there should be a way to delete your own user subpages < 1249841670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have a useless vector.css link being added to every page < 1249841676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: put {{db-user}} on them < 1249841686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an admin will delete it pretty quickly, those are really noncontroversial < 1249841694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck violations of the law of least surprise. < 1249841697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be automatic, grumble < 1249841702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that would be abusable < 1249841705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ehird/vector.css < 1249841708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that worked. < 1249841710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename a popular article into your userspace, then delete it... < 1249841725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, so don't allow renaming a popular article into your userspace < 1249841734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i bet that'll surprise them < 1249841735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the work required to put it back is the same as undeleting < 1249841748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you created it in the first place, and it came from your userspace? < 1249841751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually, I find I still gullibly trust computers to work as I expect < 1249841768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh, i don't care; but templates aren't being expanded < 1249841769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's in CAT:SD anyway < 1249841770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you delete it? < 1249841774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the fluoride in the water < 1249841776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1249841778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just checked < 1249841782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the category doesn't render on the page < 1249841820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers redesigning vector in userspace and then hax0ring wikipedia to set it for everyone < 1249842056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it somewhat perverse that water flouridisation is not common in Colorado Springs... < 1249842069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don'tcha now they can control your mind through that stuff. < 1249842075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... water flouridisation was discovered there, because natural water sources there have flouride.) < 1249842091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1249842094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249842101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude, do you know what that means? < 1249842105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD is controlling our minds. < 1249842112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, why would they add it if it occurs naturally, duh < 1249842120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he was joking < 1249842122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They take it *out*. < 1249842125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :........ < 1249842127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1249842164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They have to take some of it out, though; the amount of flouride in the water supply mottles the teeth. < 1249842171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STILL! < 1249842174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... They just take *all* of it out. < 1249842194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was pregnant women who were hurt most by overflouridation < 1249842219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know because there was a row about it here in the UK a couple of weeks ago, a water company was putting far too much flouride in and ignoring their own warning mechanisms < 1249842310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It deforms the bones of babies. < 1249842319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mottles the teeth of all. < 1249842327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's it; I'm mocking up a design of Wikipedia that doesn't involve information clutter, showing things you don't need, unexcellent typo… you know, negating this list made it awkward. < 1249842333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sounds awesome < 1249842360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overflouridisation is t3h suck. < 1249842374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you'll find that more or less every link on a typical Wikipedia page is either needed by someone, or the WMF insist on it < 1249842386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not the pages, the chrome < 1249842394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, I can hide the ones not needed at the moment < 1249842398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about things like the links around the edges < 1249842400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody can stop me using it as a user CSS < 1249842415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, there's absolutely no need to have them like that at all, I can assure you < 1249842428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wow the pdf version thing is slow) < 1249842436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's at 1% for a tiny article) < 1249842442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, certainly as an admin, being able to hit things like user contribs, block, etc, in 1 click is highly useful < 1249842453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it went from 1% to 100% < 1249842458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, absolutely < 1249842462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :number of clicks is important in case you're doing it in something like 50 tabs in parallel, a ribbon wouldn't really work for that < 1249842467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a very good designer but i'm not an idiot < 1249842480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, admins do obviously have different needs than users < 1249842515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, because non-admins do adminny work too < 1249842522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, they're supposed to < 1249842530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't block people < 1249842545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mass reports to AIV have happened in the past < 1249842558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if it gets too over-the-top, ANI is generally a better choice < 1249842605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mainly interested in something I can read without wanting to gnaw my eyes out, and secondarily something I can do brief editing and administrivia to quite easily < 1249842631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there could be a "I'm going to stay in the house for a few months editing" button :P < 1249842636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that enables monobook < 1249842664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hate it when errors on the main page got reported in the wrong place and they got fixed pretty quickly, then my properly placed error reports on WP:ERRORS get ignored." < 1249842669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think they realise? < 1249842701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realise that people have used the main page since the stone age and will do so forever? and that thus they have to check both places, thus slowing them down? < 1249842713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost enough to make a man nominate WP:ERRORS for deletion < 1249842723 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user contributions is a useful function < 1249842730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's to do with watchlisting < 1249842738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk:Main Page tends to be rather fastmoving < 1249842740 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if somebody makes one stupid error, if you see their user contributions, they usually make lots of them < 1249842743 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can laugh at them < 1249842747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you report an error there, an innocuous change might be next there < 1249842748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but they check it anyway to complain at them! < 1249842751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hide the watchlist entry < 1249842760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're already doing that hard work < 1249842773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it'll be slower, manually checking as opposed to just having a watchlist entry < 1249842789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd be fine if Talk:Main Page had a subsection called Errors, with a link "add one" that edits the included template page < 1249842797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it did < 1249842800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, my fans just spinned up < 1249842805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have people changed their minds again? < 1249842808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it does, but it's in the header < 1249842811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't include the error page < 1249842828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who would report it in talk:main page don't know about the + button, but they DO ignore headers and warnings like everyone else < 1249842837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it looked like a subsection with a big "Add one" link, it'd be used < 1249842893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wikipedia is a free content encyclopedia written by a global community of volunteers. Sometimes, false information is added to Wikipedia. Do not trust information in Wikipedia - use additional references" < 1249842894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Mobile Wikipedia < 1249842899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should replace Wikipedia's disclaimer with that < 1249842941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the WMF would go crazy < 1249842947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, they do anyway < 1249842980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny that encyclopedia dramatica is run more smoothly and with less drama than wikipedia < 1249843074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, [[Wikipedia]] isn't an FA < 1249843076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249843221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION redesigns around [[Barack Obama]] < 1249843238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the assumption that it's a relatively normal article and is obviously well-maintained < 1249843244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's unusually long... < 1249843298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The whole cult-of-personality thing. < 1249843310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what in particular? < 1249843337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obama you mean? < 1249843344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... There's quite a few people who seem to think that Obama is the second coming or something. < 1249843348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249843348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half of that article is probably devoted to rebutting the birthers < 1249843351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1249843352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249843371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a more objective source < 1249843372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/Barack_Obama < 1249843375 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are thse people, pikhq < 1249843386 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a good republican talking point < 1249843387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"allegedly[1][2][3][4][5] born in Honolulu" < 1249843402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wow Obamunism xD < 1249843410 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the only people i saw get really knicker-wetting joyful over Obama was during the election < 1249843422 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and huge parts of that were "hooray bush is gone forever" < 1249843436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR IS HE < 1249843442 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he is < 1249843499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, what if Palin is actually Bush < 1249843499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: It has at least cooled off, yes. < 1249843501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider it. < 1249843517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was horrid during the election. Now, it's at least a few silly people. < 1249843532 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas whole scads of the Right must have had a terrible buttock rash for all eight years < 1249843536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What scares the shit out of me is the Palin followers. < 1249843574 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It surprised me just how rapidly those people went from EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE, YOU'VE GOT TO RESPECT THE PRESIDENT to HE'S NOT A REAL PRESIDENT, ALL AMERICANS DISSENT AGAINST THE PRESIDENT < 1249843575 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1249843585 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't politically aware when Clinton was in < 1249843596 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all along I thought they actually *believed* that < 1249843598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you familiar with doublethink? < 1249843607 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, I felt stupid when it happened < 1249843627 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really it was amazing how rapid the turnabout was < 1249843633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, absolutely < 1249843643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Republicans have a very simple belief system: the corporations are right. < 1249843653 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's unfair. < 1249843654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day was "Well if the President wants to wiretap and uh and kill some terrists and stuff then you have to accept it because WE THE PEOPLE ELECTED HIM" < 1249843655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's good for the people screwing us is good for us. < 1249843656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next day < 1249843660 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's entirely accurate, but it's unfair. < 1249843665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maybe if someone uh ASSASSINATED him that'd be okayyyy?" < 1249843668 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's accurate because that's how it's been set up < 1249843675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ais523 came up with a wonderful way to understand republicans < 1249843676 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the manifestation is more complicated than that < 1249843692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take it as axiomatic that bad things happen to people because they deserve it, the republican platform makes perfect sense < 1249843692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: Obviously. Even simple things are complex. < 1249843695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the democrats are insane < 1249843723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Except that they claim that that axiom is from the Bible. < 1249843743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as we all know, the bible is axiomatic because it says so! < 1249843748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's very few things that are axiomatic in the Bible. ;) < 1249843765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the part where jesus pretty much revokes everything < 1249843776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best part, IMO. < 1249843779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hmm... don't you think these rules are a bit stringent on the masses? Will they BUY this stuff?" < 1249843784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...you're right." < 1249843791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But we can't just GET RID of it all! That's our BACKSTORY!" < 1249843795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fuck that shit. Be good to each other. < 1249843798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1249843800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well... just put some sort of note about all the stuff before it being false, kay?" < 1249843802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sure thing." < 1249843805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THOUSANDS OF YEARS LATER* < 1249843813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and there is also the part where he claims he isn't changing a single letter of anything < 1249843817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fags will burn in hell!" < 1249843829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the part about clams was allegory, man < 1249843842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clams? where? < 1249843846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: He claims rather that the law was in fact intended to end. He's not changing it, he's the succcessor to it. < 1249843849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249843861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: couldn't god just have made humans not stupid fuckers at the start and given them the perfect law? < 1249843868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin' < 1249843877 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could, but we didn't want it < 1249843884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's his fault! < 1249843886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he designed us < 1249843896 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to within certain tolerances < 1249843908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's fuckin' omnipotent, what's his problem < 1249843914 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his problem is he was lonely < 1249843915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did fine with the rest of the universe < 1249843924 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wanted to create something that could love him back < 1249843932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: but he could just change metareality so he wasn't lonely! < 1249843940 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd have known the difference < 1249843948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he never metareality he liked! < 1249843954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wouldn't simulate having someone who loves him < 1249843963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd just make it so that the concept of "god is lonely" is objectively false < 1249843974 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god can't trick himself like that < 1249843975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the man's smart enough to create a universe. < 1249843982 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of logic is for created things < 1249843994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: congrats, you just reminded me why I hate arguing with religious people < 1249844001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to go put my head in a blender now < 1249844015 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well man it's not a hard idea, and it even works here < 1249844045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was just the pre-starter argument! < 1249844045 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put it this way, he's omniscient, so he'll know he fucked with his own mind < 1249844058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be about five years until i got to the main course < 1249844061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have been < 1249844076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: the universe is just fucking with his own reality. < 1249844097 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1249844120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1249844122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is it? < 1249844130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... THEY ACTUALLY THINK WEATHER UNDERGROUND IS A TERRORIST GROUP. < 1249844135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU < 1249844140 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"universe" and "reality" are both words to describe Creation < 1249844185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wouldn't say terrorist, but "the group conducted a campaign of bombings through the mid-1970s, including aiding the jailbreak and escape of Timothy Leary" < 1249844203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1970 the group issued a "Declaration of a State of War" against the United States government, under the name "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO). The bombing attacks mostly targeted government buildings, along with several banks. Most were preceded by evacuation warnings, along with communiqués identifying the particular matter that the attack was intended to protest. For the bombing of the United States Capitol on March 1, 1971, they issued a commun < 1249844217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iqué saying it was "in protest of the US invasion of Laos." For the bombing of The Pentagon on May 19, 1972, they stated it was "in retaliation for the US bombing raid in Hanoi." For the January 29, 1975 bombing of the United States Department of State Building, they stated it was "in response to escalation in Vietnam."[5] < 1249844232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh, so they actually have justification for the term. < 1249844243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; that, at least, is not one of their crazier statements. < 1249844244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, not complete craziness, just hyperbole. < 1249844291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it amusing that they think is a radical, communist liberal. < 1249844307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... How many communists do corporate welfare, exactly? < 1249844355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Obama/he < 1249844359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed a wordy word < 1249844383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Sorry. < 1249844407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Obamunism. < 1249844421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they think that his policies will lead to a second Great Depression. < 1249844422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. :D < 1249844424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obamunism! < 1249844432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, like... Now? < 1249844437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before he got in office? < 1249844465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... They think he's muslim. < 1249844473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good Lord, people. < 1249844518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they think he's actually mind controlling people. < 1249844530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MOTHERFUCKING CRAZY. < 1249844537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS. < 1249844538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D': < 1249844542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BobTHJ believes a good portion of all this! < 1249844587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Obama tries to downplay his Islamic background by claiming that his Kenyan Muslim father was a "confirmed atheist" before Obama was born, but in fact less than 1% of Kenyans are atheists, agnostics, or non-religious." < 1249844591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As we all know, 1%s don't exist. < 1249844603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is significantly more plausible to claim that there are aliens coming down to earth on a regular basis. < 1249844612 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249844617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are aliens coming into the country on a regular basis, at least < 1249844623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does everyone forget what "alien" actually means... < 1249844625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: From outer space. < 1249844645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Die, prescriptivist! < 1249844650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249844664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was there to ? about < 1249844665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription < 1249844670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mexico is also a space < 1249844672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alien doesn't mean that, < 1249844677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people don't use alien to mean that, in general. < 1249844679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's outside the US < 1249844682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless the context is obviously immigration) < 1249844696 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a prescriptivist < 1249844700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. At least claims regarding aliens sometimes are regarding unexplained situations. < 1249844704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no you're not < 1249844711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i so am < 1249844721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's at least possible to say "We don't know WTF that is, it might be aliens." < 1249844724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no way < 1249844734 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes uhhuh < 1249844746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... Obama being Muslim, and from Kenya? There is a huge amount of evidence against it. < 1249844761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq < 1249844762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't care < 1249844764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not a chance < 1249844772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just scared racist shits < 1249844774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh, right. They hates logic. < 1249844784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm totally a prescriptivist < 1249844786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't attack his policies convincingly, so they attack him < 1249844788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They refuse to believe that they are wrong. < 1249844823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Obama alleged Saddam "has developed chemical and biological weapons" but was willing to condone the most hideous use of torture[124] from a man who "butchers his own people."]] < 1249844835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if Saddam wants to waterboard, that's just fine, now, isn't it? < 1249844842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because bullshit is easier to argue against than reality. < 1249844890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is where you say "incredibly not" < 1249844931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Anyways. If these idiots were European, they would be voting for the Nazis. < 1249844937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no it isn't < 1249844942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The crazies are everywhere. < 1249844944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they do. < 1249844948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it so was < 1249844948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called the BNP. < 1249844958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... Yes, that was my point. < 1249844960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm leaving now, so i win < 1249844962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1249844962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1249844991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's just what you are saying < 1249845004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what's funny? Britain is not that much more left-wing than the US, and yet even our right-wing party fully supports universal healthcare and even a lot of privacy. < 1249845010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US is just insane. < 1249845044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Conservapedia's Atheism article used to start with a picture of Hitler. < 1249845050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no point even trying to understand or rebut them. < 1249845098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... Wasn't Hitler nominally Christian? < 1249845106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than nominally. < 1249845114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, now it has Marquis de Sade < 1249845117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you ask "conservatives". < 1249845171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "hitler was not an atheist / was a christian" articles kept showing up on reddit all the time < 1249845204 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249845205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably still there in /atheism which is no longer on the main page (last i looked) < 1249845208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun part of /r/atheism is that it only makes any sense if you believe conservative christians are reading it < 1249845248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah so you think it's mostly crap too? < 1249845254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't < 1249845279 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even remember what site this /r/foo stuff refers to :P < 1249845284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit < 1249845288 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah. < 1249845293 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it's all bullshit. < 1249845300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top two links in /r/atheism right now, < 1249845304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting fact: Hitler was commonly believed to be male < 1249845307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: was mentioned the line before you entered < 1249845309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My new hobby. Leaving atheism themed books on display model ebook readers. This one is at Target." // real productive! have you got a life yet? < 1249845315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second: < 1249845317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To all those who post the repetitive "This is a circle jerk..." to /a/atheism. Getting in the middle of a circle jerk and opening your mouth actually makes it "Bukkake"." < 1249845318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1249845321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're so witty < 1249845323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG < 1249845334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you totally rebutted that guy, now get back to jerking everyone else off. < 1249845339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, something < 1249845340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That... Is a truely dumb sub-reddit. < 1249845347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your spelling is truely dumb. < 1249845350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah yes there was a great comment quote yesterday, let me see if i can find it < 1249845368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, a subreddit for atheism isn't an inherently bad idea; it's just that this incarnation is worthless. < 1249845387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm pretty sure hitler was male :P < 1249845388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably impossible) < 1249845396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: see what I mean? < 1249845406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you metatrolling :D < 1249845412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: We got here from discussing Conservapedia's article on Obama. < 1249845412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never metatroll I didn't like/ < 1249845416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/./ < 1249845418 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bahahahah < 1249845432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECRET MUSLIM COMMUNIST KENYAN ZOMG KILLING AMERICA! < 1249845433 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he's not an atheist, he's a muslim! :P < 1249845459 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have they added any new "Muslim" "evidence" since last I checked? < 1249845471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly! < 1249845489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, maybe Conservapedia is part of Obama's socialist eugenics program. < 1249845496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I retroactively invoke Godwin's Law on someone or other, I don't particularly care who < 1249845501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the conversation since then never happened < 1249845509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who makes a non-satiric edit to Conservapedia won't be allowed to breed when the program comes into place. < 1249845516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And their existing babies will be harvested for food. < 1249845526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Probably about when we claimed that they would be voting for Nazis if they were in Europe. < 1249845535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't Conservapedia claim that they'll sue vandals? < 1249845542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, anyone who swears < 1249845546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Commandments < 1249845552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Everything you post must be true" < 1249845557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even want to visit that link, the URL is scary enough < 1249845559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"must be family-friendly, clean, concise, and without gossip or foul language" < 1249845562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/98sg3/please_stop_spamming_the_main_reddit_with_your/c0bu3p4 < 1249845564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When referencing dates based on the approximate birth of Jesus, give appropriate credit for the basis of the date (B.C. or A.D.). "BCE" and "CE" are unacceptable substitutes because they deny the historical basis. See CE." < 1249845566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... A plausible claim, when you look at the nationalist parties (that are also ZOMG SOCIALISTS, if US opinions are to be believed) < 1249845572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally < 1249845573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minors under 16 years old use this site. Posting of obscenity here is punishable by up to 10 years in jail under 18 USC § 1470. Vandalism is punishable up to 10 years in jail per 18 USC § 1030. Harassment is punishable by 2 years in jail per 47 USC § 223. The IP addresses of vandals will be reported to authorities. That includes your employer and your local prosecutor. < 1249845586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest are rather boring apart from < 1249845586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1249845591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do not post personal opinion on an encyclopedia entry." < 1249845592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how do they know who your employer is? < 1249845604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Without gossip? I'm afraid to make an edit following that, I would have to replace the articles with Wikipedia. < 1249845605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Professional stalkers! < 1249845616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, haven't they just made an unfulfilable promise if you vandalise it when unemployed? < 1249845622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also true, also without personal opinion < 1249845632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unemployed people have no money. < 1249845636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their parents kick them out as soon as they can get a job. < 1249845640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, they don't have internet. < 1249845640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Like I said, Wikipedia. < 1249845646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe selections of Uncyclopedia. < 1249845648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only True Americans who work can access Conservapedia, and they have jobs. < 1249845670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1249845694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia needs a level above featured articles < 1249845699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Super Featured Articles, there's only 10 at once < 1249845915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the main page featured article < 1249845990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not a particularly good featured article, though < 1249845992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a random one < 1249846015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not random, there's a featured article director who plans the featured articles on each day ages in advance < 1249846041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Raul has said he just picks them randomly iirc < 1249846058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not always, they tend to be on appropriate days < 1249846065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some are left out due to being inappropriate for the main page < 1249846066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just sometimes, though < 1249846081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, point is, they're not picked for being really good FAs < 1249846162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks on a hunch whether "pornography" is a featured article. but alas. < 1249846615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have over $100,000 of software in my saddlebags. We’re sending a release to about twelve customers. […] I reach the counter with a few minutes to spare, and off the packages go. Declared worth, about ten bucks each; it’s just duplicated disks and photocopied manuals after all." < 1249846625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never before has someone so succinctly make a point they weren't trying to. < 1249846636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*made a point, maybe. < 1249846719 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃" < 1249846749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/98zwt/hypothetical_situation_if_someone_were_walking/ ← $0 due to the inevitable legal results being something in the vicinity of $infinity < 1249846819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fragsworth.com/audio_functions/1988/ amazing < 1249846970 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249846978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: http://fragsworth.com/audio_functions/1988/ < 1249847003 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Thank* you, oh glorious Internet, for dropping connections at the drop of a hat. < 1249847034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, it has videos too < 1249847038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never sleep again < 1249847155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to make a rotating checkerboard < 1249847164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1249847166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249847211 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1249847245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1249847247 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you transmit text to a human at 1000 7-bit characters per minute? < 1249847254 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without using eyes) < 1249847273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ethernet cable :P < 1249847281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex? < 1249847296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well let's say a word is five letters < 1249847304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 200 wpm < 1249847311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you could learn to hear at 200wpm < 1249847329 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't work < 1249847334 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be able to do source code, etc < 1249847343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make up a language, obviously < 1249847364 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think you could understand chorded electrical shocks? < 1249847373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'd be too busy screaming < 1249847390 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249847460 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249847479 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249847605 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1249847612 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fast can one of those braile displays go? < 1249847624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human's the bottleneck there < 1249847643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well my knowledge has a bit of a blind spot there < 1249847763 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurp durp < 1249847908 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1249847914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1249847930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1249848065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 116 b/s, might be close to human peak listening speed < 1249848122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytes per second? < 1249848124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249848153 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249848158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: 116 bytes a second? < 1249848162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can we possibly listen that fast < 1249848166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about 14B/s < 1249848174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so 116 b/s, < 1249848174 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a different tone for each byte < 1249848177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh bits < 1249848178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bytes < 1249848195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, that's the one place where you need to care about caps < 1249848269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there are others, such as m vs. M prefix < 1249848281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just say bit < 1249848300 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: much less confusing though, also for bits, not at all so < 1249848382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'd say the actual used information content per english character is about two bits, by that random estimate you'd need about 20 words per second < 1249848398 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which contains another random estimate of 5 characters per wordds < 1249848399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*word < 1249848428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a letter is 5 bits isn't it < 1249848440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1249848445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really mean much < 1249848449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said 2 bits < 1249848464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdhgjhaerw takes about an hour to explain, abababababa takes about a second to say < 1249848482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: compressed size < 1249848505 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdhgjhaerw is only about two syllables, much quicker to say than abababababa < 1249848515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: crazy finns < 1249848542 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, I just think "sdhgjh" is quite compressible < 1249848556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that would be crazy georgians, i don't think finns could pronounce that < 1249848556 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the estimate is based on current best compression < 1249848580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i've heard 1 bit per character is how much a human needs, no idea what that's based on < 1249848598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway need to go again < 1249848655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i've heard that too. < 1249848729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249848745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmmmm so actually everything sucks, did you heard < 1249848777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there are unit differences too < 1249848785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s = second, S = siemens < 1249848907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that is a matter of some gravity < 1249848918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuuuuuuuuuck youuuuuuuuuu oerjan < 1249848945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, did i cause an accident? < 1249849018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fragsworth.com/video_functions/781/ < 1249850107 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249850172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249851195 0 :Warrigal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: attach things to their fingers that move them as if they were typing the text. < 1249851211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only gets you 100wpm < 1249851215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need 200wpm < 1249851468 0 :MigoMipo!n=chatzill@84-217-11-227.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249852436 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if it was passive and hard to see < 1249852453 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, like electrodes across your belly or something < 1249852483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly are you doing < 1249852525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, you can print a book on the fly from an arbitrary set of wikipedia pages; with greyscale images < 1249852528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/PediaPress_Books_-_interior_2.jpg < 1249852547 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nothing < 1249853276 0 :Warrigal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's the purpose of this, again? < 1249853360 0 :Warrigal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think that's based on people's ability to predict the next letter of a sentence, given a dictionary. < 1249853406 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's pretty cool actually ... < 1249854042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249854077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The purpose of a purple porpoise" < 1249855720 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249855725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: it is cool! < 1249855769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many books it'd take to get all of articlespace < 1249855789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are book prices calculated? < 1249855789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cost of a book depends on the number of pages contained in addition to a base fee. < 1249855791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helpful < 1249855797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single book has a maximum size of approximately 800 pages. If a larger book is ordered, it is automatically split up into multiple volumes. < 1249855798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee < 1249855829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about 2500 books < 1249855832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming 1 page/article < 1249855840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which knowing how large some articles are and how short others are, seems fair < 1249855886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, less than $55 for 800 pages < 1249855909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much less it seems, 819 = $37.76 < 1249855920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol http://pediapress.com/books/show/bdsm/ < 1249856176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pediapress.com/books/show/nothing/ < 1249856183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A good use of $21.92 + shipping < 1249856378 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249856730 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249856792 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249856997 0 :timmcd!n=Adium@75-169-253-196.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249857005 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello people! < 1249857056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! < 1249857067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who brought you from #haskell? :-P < 1249857072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I suspect you. < 1249857076 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually < 1249857081 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one ;) < 1249857095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, unpossible. < 1249857098 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just filtered the freenode.net channels for one pertaining to esoteric languages. < 1249857101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are too many combined Haskell/esolang lovers :P < 1249857105 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249857109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timmcd: I'm surprised you could tell we're about esolangs with the topic < 1249857121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're http://esolangs.org/ < 1249857220 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1249857243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, hi. < 1249857244 0 :pikhq__!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249857248 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird / anyone else: http://etherpad.com/esolangideas < 1249857252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq__: fix your damn net < 1249857253 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think that looks allright? < 1249857256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timmcd: Ooooh you're that guy < 1249857264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't associate new names for a few days < 1249857267 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idk if that's good or bad, ehird... < 1249857274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just saw you in the logs :P < 1249857277 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah ^_^ < 1249857281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249857293 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want as much feedback as I can get ;) < 1249857460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timmcd: It looks basically like assembly with an odd syntax and convenient types/IO, which is better than most people's first language :) < 1249857555 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol... thanks? < 1249857572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, we can't go praising people's first languages, what with how many we get on the wiki. < 1249857579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249857583 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, too true. :D < 1249857617 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249857631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll buy you an internet pipe. < 1249857664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No point. I'll have real Internets in a couple weeks. < 1249857674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wait that long. < 1249858057 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715094852]" < 1249858136 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249858281 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249858470 0 :pikhq__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249858791 0 :timmcd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1249859106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249859870 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249859882 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249860014 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249860036 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249861031 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1249861423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's try to not try for three lines after this < 1249861734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let's try a little more than that < 1249861861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah. < 1249861895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm very pleased with this moderate amount of trying < 1249861901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~fin~ < 1249861931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Todo list < 1249861971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[X] Find out if we're marginally funny in any way < 1249861971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] Make a bot that lets us turn this into comics in a line < 1249861971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] Attain internet infamy < 1249861979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked for jerkcity < 1249862237 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: please explain the joke < 1249862281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: as i said, it worked for jerkcity. among the various things that jerkcity lacks lies "jokes" < 1249862301 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what jerkcity is, i need that part of the joke explained < 1249862324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jerkcity.com/ < 1249862337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only microsoft comic chat-created IRC comic that's been running since 1998. < 1249862342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that features dongs. < 1249862350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least I hope there aren't others) < 1249862409 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone has been doing this for 11 years? well, the amount of effort involved does look pretty minimal, i suppose a whole years worth of this material is producible in about an hour < 1249862433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: Less. < 1249862438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have seen the guy who made it's blog (http://www.randsinrepose.com/) around the interwebs < 1249862442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some fairly popular posts < 1249862461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only really need to dump IRC into comic. < 1249862463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I'm fairly sure they just sit in an irc channel 24/7. < 1249862474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: facial expressions too i think, although that could just be good synchronicity < 1249862501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and perhaps grouping lines into panels < 1249862508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Parsec makes most parsers seem trivial < 1249862509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and making sure that characters are in panels even when not talking < 1249862517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could just be automatic < 1249862548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously very hit and miss though, http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity3931.html made me laugh < 1249862561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quantity beats quality for sufficiently large values of quantity! < 1249862579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, I cannot does HTTP. < 1249862581 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i laugh pretty easily, but i didnt laugh. < 1249862607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i basically never laugh but i smirked < 1249862607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Isn't, like, dropping connections at random a *good* thing?" < 1249862631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's spigot's expression in the last panel that did it < 1249862660 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249862902 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know of any real organized effort to create an 'encyclopedia of the internet and internet history'? something that infuriated me about wikipedia a long time ago was the idea on the part of many editors that the internet was somehow low-status and unimportant and the culture of the internet itself was un-encyclopedic < 1249862977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encyclopedia dramatica. < 1249862985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm absolutely serious. brb < 1249862987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encyclopedia Dramatica. < 1249862993 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugg, i hate ED with extreme prejudice. < 1249863070 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say this basically because i regard it as the work of the people who 'ruined 4chan' with teenage attitude basically ripped off of maddox and seasoned with additional nihilism. < 1249863689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249864034 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ED's primary goal to chronicle internet history, but with an extra obsession of internet drama < 1249864053 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encouraging it, idolizing it and creating it < 1249864197 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless, there's definitely a need for a more scholarly approach to the topic < 1249864266 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So, what is your hobby?" "I am an internet anthropologist." "lolololololol" < 1249864277 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..u.u < 1249864300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ah, the AOL lol repetition. I thought that everyone had forgotten that." < 1249864349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249864574 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249864648 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249864653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:11:10 i say this basically because i regard it as the work of the people who 'ruined 4chan' with teenage attitude basically ripped off of maddox and seasoned with additional nihilism. < 1249864656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ruined 4chan" < 1249864658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lose < 1249864691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. ... There was something to ruin about 4chan? < 1249864709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nostalgia shines everything < 1249864733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it had always been a desolate wasteland of memes of ill taste, weird porn, and the occasional Anonymous uprising. < 1249864791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read the start of the original 4chan thread once, was fun < 1249864808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esp. when moot got all emo and said something along the lines of < 1249864818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you'll see in the news about the 11 year old that killed himself" < 1249864819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brief pause < 1249864821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh wait i'm 13 now" < 1249864825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, he said that) < 1249864833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the forums exploded with "lol 13" < 1249864845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :original 4chan thread as in on Something Awful < 1249864858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... moot was how old? < 1249864881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 < 1249864885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 2003 when 4chan started < 1249864889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so. < 1249864901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That explains a lot. < 1249864926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1249864952 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1249864955 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep is dumb < 1249864960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so's your mom < 1249864971 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time grep -i -> 1m49.705s < 1249864981 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time grep 0m0.829s < 1249865000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, disk cache? < 1249865003 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249865012 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not that dumb < 1249865017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1249865036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249865057 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249865059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTS are rather annoying. < 1249865066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, matter of taste... < 1249865086 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1249865091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, ? < 1249865093 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fgrep does it in 2 seconds < 1249865097 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just bad programming < 1249865113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try a non-gnu grep? < 1249865114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, fgrep is a wrapper for grep on most GNU/Linux systems < 1249865118 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep should be doing boyer-moore on fixed strings no matter how you invoke it < 1249865122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: god you're an idiot < 1249865130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... it is < 1249865142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : grep, grep -i, fgrep < 1249865144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a two line shell script < 1249865150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that invokes grep -F < 1249865158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, you're really fucking retarded, you're proving my point here < 1249865160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaanyway < 1249865163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I'm not. < 1249865168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: gnu grep is probably using a lameo exponential algo http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html < 1249865170 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right, but it obviously uses a different algorithm < 1249865170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh, no. < 1249865175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, that is true < 1249865177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seperate binary. < 1249865182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even a symlink. < 1249865184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEARLY bsmntbombdood WAS BENCHMARKING GREP -F VS FGREP < 1249865187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls -l `which fgrep` < 1249865188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1249865190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though he didn't mention grep -f! < 1249865191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, depends on what GNU/Linux you use < 1249865197 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: only exponential on diabolical regexes < 1249865198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo GNU/Linux. < 1249865206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yes, but slow always < 1249865210 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i am searching for fixed-length strings < 1249865214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i know < 1249865218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't say anything stupid < 1249865219 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boyer moore is the best algorithm, period < 1249865222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With two different md5sums. < 1249865227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1249865228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed it seems so there. was checking on my arch system < 1249865231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking about grep -i time < 1249865247 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to grep the log to see what the grep everyone is grepping about < 1249865266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249865328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night really < 1249865398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249865411 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249865476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I am going to hunt down my ISP and kill people there. < 1249865481 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god me too < 1249865611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would be happy if the isp i'm eventually going to switch to has nice fibre optic < 1249865616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can't complain about isps too much. < 1249865696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be happy if my ISP did not drop connections at random. < 1249865704 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need moar bandwidth < 1249865714 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and less latency < 1249865717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just forward everything through ssh < 1249865723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need an execution squad. < 1249865730 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 bytes from google.com (74.125.45.100): icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=555 ms < 1249865730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: the internet actually gets something like half of the maximum possible latency < 1249865734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/ the speed of light < 1249865735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...okay, not that < 1249865738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with a good connection < 1249865756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stuartcheshire.org/rants/Latency.html < 1249865771 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to connections < 1249865782 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one super low latency, medium bandwidth one for web, irc, ssh, etc < 1249865789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION connections < 1249865793 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another with like up to 10 seconds of latency < 1249865797 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with super duper bandwidth < 1249865799 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bittorrent < 1249865800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no need to separate them < 1249865801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no conflict < 1249865811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: also bittorrent is p2p < 1249865815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that latency will fuck you up < 1249865819 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1249865886 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249865888 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually, the best studies ive seen of modern day internet latency show that the effective latency at the application level tends to be a lot worse, because the problem is that at the application level, your total latency is determined by the *worst* latency of the group of packets involved in an application level operation < 1249865901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249865912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that you can't make a CONNECTION massively less latencyful < 1249865927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that page was last updated 2001 < 1249865927 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very true, speed of light is a lot more of a practical limit than people realize < 1249865929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we might be even closer < 1249865957 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: which is why voip uses udp < 1249865961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: I realised that when I learned that in the worst case, the speed of light limits communications to mars at something like 22 minute latency < 1249865966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best case like six minutes < 1249865974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was just like... well fuck space colonisation < 1249865996 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1249866000 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Works quite a bit better with lunar colonisation. < 1249866005 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couple seconds latency. < 1249866019 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCP/IP does not scale to the solar system :P < 1249866019 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: its funny you say that, i think reasoning along those lines is actually the best resolution to the fermi paradox of extraterrestrial life < 1249866019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: why are you lolling < 1249866022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: is it fast enough for video chat? < 1249866031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I'm... not talking about TCP/IP. < 1249866033 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not going to be playing any FPSes, but should be doing fine. < 1249866036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I'm talking about the speed of light. < 1249866044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you have a magical protocol that goes faster than light. < 1249866050 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: why not? < 1249866052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yeah, ditto < 1249866055 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1249866060 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ansible! < 1249866064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: ? < 1249866089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean "well just use slower things then" < 1249866090 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCP/IP does not scale to the solar system BECAUSE the speed of light is an issue. What I'm saying is we'll need a set of protocols that don't assume such low latency. < 1249866090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK THAT < 1249866094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :email is crap < 1249866115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space colonisation where each planet is an isolated bubble isn't an improvement < 1249866116 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Go back a few decades, then. < 1249866122 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UUCP. < 1249866140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had hundreds of billions to blow on physicists so I could force them to figure out a loophole to the speed of light :P < 1249866141 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: originally, the ttl field of a tcp packet was in seconds < 1249866149 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who says tcp can't handle high latency? < 1249866169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: back then we sent like, oh, 30 packets at a time :P < 1249866169 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: TCP can't do *half an hour* latency. < 1249866172 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: want to take a shot at making this a formally stated theory? "given the inherent relationship of intelligence to information processing and extrapolation from our current sample size of 1 (ourselves)..." < 1249866180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: no < 1249866203 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's only 22 minutes worst case < 1249866219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i'm afraid we can't control its orbit < 1249866224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1249866225 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best case is 3 minutes < 1249866226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 minutes is still bad < 1249866229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1249866233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 minutes is as bad as 22 minutes < 1249866236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 90% of things < 1249866245 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it seems likely that as technological civilizations advance, their needs for bandwidth and low latency connections mean that space travel is unlikely to be regarded as efficient or desirable, due to the inherent limitations of bandwidth and latency imposed on outward expansion" < 1249866246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have a lot of patience and email < 1249866251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 3 minutes is a bit less annoying < 1249866257 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each planet can have a massive squid cache for web < 1249866298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is that without realtime communication we set humanity back a hundred years < 1249866303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, more < 1249866314 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sms seems to be quite popular these days, that will do fine with 3 minutes latency < 1249866323 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249866344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*22 minutes < 1249866351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want to limit all communication to a short period. < 1249866365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, yes, we could do non-real time communication < 1249866370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to repeat: the fact is that without realtime communication we set humanity back a hundred years < 1249866376 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100 years < 1249866378 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249866386 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You act as if all realtime communication MUST be with people on Earth. < 1249866387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: telephone < 1249866399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: FUCK isolated bubbles < 1249866405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not progress < 1249866408 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: look at sms < 1249866414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: sms is not real time < 1249866416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just email < 1249866429 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brother just got a cell phone...i think he's maybe spoken on it once < 1249866437 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This conversation is too ehird-makes-amazingly-stupid-arguments for me to continue ... *vanish* < 1249866449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ you're all fucking retarded. < 1249866457 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm saying is that high latency text communication is becoming popular < 1249866479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's been popular for a while now gramps < 1249866482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kids in the hood call it email < 1249866494 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_in place_ of voice communication < 1249866497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless, an isolated bubble of real-time communication isn't progress < 1249866507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yes, but SMS is also used as a surrogate real-time communication < 1249866508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM-style < 1249866511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you couldn't do that < 1249866523 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1249866551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a surr/surr/ < 1249866552 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what kind of bandwidth you can get from mars < 1249866560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: we're talking about mars. < 1249866570 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: You're limited by the FCC. < 1249866574 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1249866580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: anyway, this is theoretical limit < 1249866581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice < 1249866582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much lower < 1249866583 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, rather, their interplanetary equivalent. < 1249866585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we're not using freakin' light < 1249866589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the the < 1249866592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oretical) < 1249866595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1249866598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latency will be even worse < 1249866607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bandwidth will be the best of whatever can do those distances < 1249866611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly not much < 1249866633 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for idling speculating < 1249866640 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we have probes on mars < 1249866642 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start googling < 1249866649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use radio < 1249866655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's slow. < 1249866674 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else are you going to use besides radio? < 1249866682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gigantic fucking microwaves < 1249866691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ magic humans who can survive said microwaves < 1249866692 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's radio < 1249866698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah technically < 1249866710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but generally we don't say radio when we mean HOLY FUCK I'M MELLLLLLLLLLLLTIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG < 1249866714 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _is_ all line of site < 1249866722 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sight < 1249866725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I don't point to my microwave and go < 1249866726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my radio oven < 1249866748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249866750 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wtf are you on about < 1249866752 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell are we arguing about specifically? < 1249866757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: bunnies < 1249866759 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: microwave is commonly used for communication < 1249866769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i'm talking _powerful_ microwaves < 1249866775 0 :pikhq__!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249866794 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're only powerful where you send them...with high gain directional antennas < 1249866801 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :away from the ground < 1249866801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND WHY NOT < 1249866805 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone please express the topic of debate in the form of a question to answer, or a statement of fact to agree/dispute? < 1249866814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: read yourself < 1249866828 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been here and reading the whole time, and ive lost the thread < 1249866834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet with mars. < 1249866838 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: interplanetary bandwidth < 1249866848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and latency. < 1249866852 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but those are nouns. you cant disagree about nouns. < 1249866859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also humans, melting humans < 1249866865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: in this channel, we simply discuss/argue about things. < 1249866869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deal. < 1249866920 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the basic topic "will martian colonists have acceptable internet access?" < 1249866928 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the likely answer is no. < 1249866948 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the topic is "is earth-mars communication possible" the answer is obviously yes. < 1249866951 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://selenianboondocks.com/2006/03/the-bandwidth-may-be-improving-but-the-latency-is-still-going-to-suck/ < 1249866970 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i assume they'll have a decent lan < 1249866983 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously their local communications are no problem < 1249866992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is making it not an isolated bubble < 1249866996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the speed of light, this is impossible. < 1249867001 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the earth is an isolated bubble < 1249867007 0 :pikhq__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for exotic physics. < 1249867011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but there aren't any humans elsewhere. < 1249867021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're not isolated relative to humans. < 1249867094 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bittorrent would still work < 1249867096 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all i need < 1249867097 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i think the issues in re: mars are probably not insurmountable, but that the issues for extrasolar travel (the really interesting question imo) maybe *are* < 1249867101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1249867102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249867116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if bittorrent never made any new connections, and you didn't have to share chunks, sure < 1249867133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (a) it does and (b) they're gonna be sitting on their asses for 20 minutes waiting for your bytes to come through < 1249867134 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf are you talking about < 1249867141 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine < 1249867144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249867148 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249867149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1249867229 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249867648 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249867745 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249867817 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249867817 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249868073 0 :pikhq__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249868281 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249868439 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249868500 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249868531 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249868666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249868687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! David S. Touretsky appeared on the interwebs. < 1249869268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that's not actually hah but. < 1249869455 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249869615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249870331 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249870390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249870464 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249871070 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249871779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hath it stabilised? < 1249873301 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249873406 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249873525 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249873661 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im baking my shallot tart tatin! :D < 1249874390 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249874885 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249877970 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249878447 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1249879820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkGeek < 1249879836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s servers for a while went screwy and started not charging people for stuff. < 1249879855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkGeek decided to take the opportunity to give out schwag. < 1249879877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not being dicks == impressive. < 1249879884 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1249879920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So you got shit for free. Guess what? It's actually free." :) < 1249879934 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1249880044 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet shittons of people are going to start buying stuff now < 1249880049 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1249880755 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1249880758 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had known! D: < 1249880968 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too.. i always wanted that watch that's like $600 < 1249881193 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249881201 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont actually want anything from think geek, but even so < 1249881206 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its my geeky duty! < 1249881219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten stuff from there for Christmas. < 1249881848 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhhhh they don't sell the slide rule watch anymore < 1249881865 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they still have http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/watches/a890/ < 1249882002 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible < 1249882025 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd buy it if it wasn't $600 < 1249882055 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why 35 degrees north < 1249882097 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1249882114 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there even a major american city at that latitude < 1249882126 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :35 degrees north is where japan is < 1249882146 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also oklahoma city < 1249882148 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just north of LA < 1249882158 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memphis too < 1249882166 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but that's not why the watch uses 35 < 1249882192 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so northern hemisphere-centric < 1249882192 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's not that big of a difference < 1249882192 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha yes < 1249882198 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :practically the fucking < 1249882204 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :centre of gravity of all the big japanese cities < 1249882217 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just south of nagoya < 1249882242 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osaka and tokyo and split the difference < 1249882245 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should work anywhere in japan, and, for that matter, anywhere in the states (except alaska) < 1249882261 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hokkaido goes up to the 40s! < 1249882285 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the islands down to 24ish < 1249882300 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249882348 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filthyphil.tumblr.com/post/154985575/dont-act-like-youve-never-seen-a-two-legged-cat < 1249882349 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1249883170 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249883243 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249884307 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249884577 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249884589 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249884710 0 :Tenacity!n=john@c-75-66-41-100.hsd1.tn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249885180 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249886756 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-32.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249888279 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reconnecting" < 1249888282 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249888788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1249889476 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249890038 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249890437 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-0-132.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249891184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nostalgic over this http://web.archive.org/web/19961030202549/http://www.brooklinesw.com/geoport.html ? < 1249891199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249891200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249891964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, xkcd is writing about me, or something. < 1249892170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, girl genius won a hugo < 1249892245 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone can recommend a piece of music, preferrably for organ, that fits in three octaves? < 1249892452 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: your best bet is small bach keyboard works - check out the inventions and sinfonias < 1249892492 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can check some of my sheet music right now i guess to see if thats accurate, im pretty sure that range isnt too far off < 1249892551 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249892564 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them ought to work < 1249892661 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 octaves would be a lot more comfortable, but i think a fair number of small pieces fit into 3, or can do so with only trivial transposition of an occasional bass note up or something < 1249893461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, context? < 1249893471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what to grep for < 1249893486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249893620 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yeah < 1249893630 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i want something more :) < 1249893950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, you want a small keyboard? Not enough space for a full length one? < 1249893962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as I can't find anything relevant in scrollback) < 1249893994 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my macbook already has a keyboard < 1249894009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, I meant, musical keyboard < 1249894010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249894031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, electrical piano with MIDI over USB or such < 1249894065 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, shitty playing, but proof of concept that it can be done: http://filebin.ca/dmfhkb/bachprelude.mp3 < 1249894075 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm playing that on my keyboard < 1249894107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, *playing on macbook keyboard*? < 1249894107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249894124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure I have seen someone in here try to use a desktop keyboard for playing music < 1249894126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR maybe < 1249894128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1249894207 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably me < 1249894217 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure it was me :) < 1249894252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, ah < 1249894967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and me < 1249894976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about a year earlier < 1249894986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he thought no one would remember and ripped off my idea < 1249895127 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249895192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh desktop keyboard < 1249895264 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249895434 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, laptop < 1249895639 0 :oklokol!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249895736 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chromatone is still fucking sexy < 1249895742 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2007/8/chromatone-t312.jpg < 1249895750 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure i'll end up buying one eventually < 1249895792 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1249895792 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1249895830 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately it uses javko < 1249895834 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :janko < 1249895893 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have a b-system accordion < 1249895963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, wow < 1249895967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that picture) < 1249896000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like an electrical accordion? < 1249896020 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of, but different layout < 1249896031 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, worse < 1249896046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know next to nothing about playing accordion < 1249896056 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you know piano its a bit tricky < 1249896070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do play piano. (not professionally, just for fun) < 1249896072 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the button/chording system adds a whole new element < 1249896103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, so for someone who can manage a bit on piano and on acoustic guitar: How does that thing work? < 1249896122 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accordion? well, its basically a keyboard that you play the melody on, then buttons that set the accompanying chords < 1249896125 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you press the keys, and it makes sounds < 1249896142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249896155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, setting chords? you don't play chords the "normal" way? < 1249896176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like you have a fixed set of possible chords? < 1249896183 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, which is retarded < 1249896188 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all accordions are like that, though < 1249896201 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i ever get an accordion, it would need to have the same layout on both sides < 1249896208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, well... what about classical acoustic accordion. < 1249896210 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such accordions exist too < 1249896218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing used for folk music and such < 1249896231 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but usually, yeah, you have a set of chords < 1249896242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, how extensive is that set? < 1249896257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. for each key, you have a major chord, a minor chord, an alternative root for the major chord, a major seventh, a diminished chord < 1249896269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1249896274 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty useless if you want to play classical on it < 1249896510 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249896516 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249897548 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249898024 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: not all accordions are like that, though <<< most ones i've seen have both melodic and chord bass options < 1249898096 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same layout on both sides? cool, i might even consider playing one < 1249898108 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249898128 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're ridiculously expensive though < 1249898130 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1249898144 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the coolest layout seems to be the russian one < 1249898156 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the accordions i've seen have cost a ridiculous amount anyway < 1249898165 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works like a piano - higher notes are downward on the right hand and upward on the left < 1249898190 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's as if the two keyboards were two halves of the same keyboard < 1249898204 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, usually i'm against all that isn't symmetric, but that would already be better than piano, so i don't mind < 1249898235 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other accordions have the keyboard mirrored, so higher notes are downward on both hands < 1249898264 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to say wihch is better < 1249898264 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i'd probably prefer that < 1249898269 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokol: the relationship of symmetry and music is absolutely fascinating - for instance, the 'symmetrical division' of the octave is the frightful tritone, the devil in music! < 1249898276 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't know about "better", i'm all about purity < 1249898277 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249898282 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually yeah, this one is probably better < 1249898291 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: the tritone is my favorite interval < 1249898300 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the scale patterns are the same with both hands < 1249898305 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249898337 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's somewhat annoying in piano, but it makes up for it because there's not explicit split < 1249898348 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also in that i've already learned the patterns < 1249898450 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit, if i get a second laptop < 1249898455 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could do that with two laptops < 1249898465 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds yummy < 1249898496 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i already hate all keyboards for being completel antisymmetric anyway < 1249898496 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1249898526 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokol: a lot of that asymmetry is inherent in how we build music out of mathematical ratios < 1249898550 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean the shifts to the right on different rows are completely random < 1249898561 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: do you mean the split of the octave, or what exactly? < 1249898593 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are a lot of elements, this is my particular field of professional expertise, so what level of detail do you want in the answer? < 1249898613 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an adequate level! < 1249898614 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should express what you mean by 'antisymmetric' in terms of keyboards, i dont follow what you mean yet maybe < 1249898617 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokol: they're close enough on my macbook that it doesn't botehr me < 1249898634 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, do you mean keyboards, not keyboards? < 1249898643 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokol: think of it like the different sizes of frets on the guitar :) < 1249898644 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer keyboards, not piano keyboards? < 1249898654 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i simply mean the difference in shift between the two lower columns is different than it is on the first two < 1249898664 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: hah :P < 1249898671 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: computer. < 1249898677 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well i was miscontexted < 1249898685 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like the piano keyboard either, though. < 1249898685 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a good way to control volume < 1249898687 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you disliked the asymmetery of the musical keyboard < 1249898693 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm not very fond of the major scale < 1249898717 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you prefer atonal serial music, like schonberg or boulez or elliot carter etc? < 1249898730 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i dislike the asymmetry of the musical keyboard. Accordians are much nicer. < 1249898732 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some people do, but its very rare) < 1249898733 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of any of those, but yes, i prefer atonal music < 1249898737 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accordions < 1249898738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Use the Power Glove to control the volume. It's so BAD. < 1249898744 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't know what serial music is < 1249898750 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtGlQHAEwVo < 1249898754 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: that's me playing < 1249898754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the solution is obviously thermins (spelling?) < 1249898762 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokol: its music composed on the idea of treating each of the 12 tones of the chromatic scale 'symmetrically' < 1249898781 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i guess i imply that when i say atonal. < 1249898788 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or violins < 1249898796 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, no i don't know if i like atonal music < 1249898797 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokol: not all atonal music is 'serial' - the serial school is a particular method < 1249898802 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hrm < 1249898804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, they sound better too. So yes < 1249898816 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i dont have flash enabled on this computer so ill have to check that link later < 1249898836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, power glove? < 1249898851 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i liked that joke < 1249898860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, use vlc or such + the command line program youtube-dl < 1249898861 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: its a pop cultural reference to a very bad movie about video games < 1249898867 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hands are busy playing, so maybe volume could be controlled by a foot moving the mouse < 1249898878 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The actual glove is an old (1989) accessory for the NES console. < 1249898879 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i need to go read random crap now -> < 1249898893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, ah. Well for reference I suck at popular culture references < 1249898908 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: me too, i get them all second hand, ive never seen the movie, but i know the line < 1249898927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wikipedia power glove page has the requisite "in popular culture" section. < 1249898936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the hands are busy playing, so maybe volume could be controlled by a foot moving the mouse <-- hrrm < 1249898939 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every pop culture reference i know, i know because ive learned it from the internet referencing it, its been like this since the 80s < 1249898940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foot controlled mice? < 1249898941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I haven't seen it either, I just know it by osmosis. < 1249898944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be interesting < 1249898947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in general < 1249898959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend here was considering getting some foot pedals for Emacs. < 1249898968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? < 1249898970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249898986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can use my rudder pedals for something like that < 1249898994 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a half measure, how about a full pipe organ setup for emacs? < 1249898996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a total of three axis < 1249899003 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could play 'stallman's 3rd sonata for emacs' on it < 1249899007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaw and each toe brake < 1249899013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, I take it you dislike emacs? < 1249899017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1249899029 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ive never even been able to learn enough of it to dislike it < 1249899033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249899041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, for reference I'm IRCing from inside emacs < 1249899045 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1249899066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried out ERC, but it didn't really stick. < 1249899071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/ERC < 1249899079 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a stallman fanatic when it comes to software freedom, but i like much more minimalistic tools than emacs < 1249899083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. There is some other irc client for emacs too < 1249899086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you would prefer it < 1249899091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :riece or something iirc < 1249899094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about spelling < 1249899116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll keep swapping clients every few months or so; variety is good for... well, it must be good for *something*! < 1249899119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd thing is, I find zsh bloated, so I use bash < 1249899120 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though perhaps if you switch to emacs-as-os mode, then emacs becomes a nice flexible lightweight environment with nice lightweight tools < 1249899135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course bash could *also* be considered bloated. compared to simpler shells at least < 1249899148 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a plan9 devotee, so we think everything everyone uses is bloated < 1249899180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, you have the power of lisp always. Admittedly this is *elisp*. So dynamic scoping. But better than vimscript definitely. < 1249899209 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i understand that the emacs paradigm of being a full operating environment with full reflexivity because of lisp is actually awesome, once you know what the hell you are doing < 1249899232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, I can customise my irc client a lot. Just write a hook in elisp < 1249899249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of places that you can hook into. Basically everything. < 1249899264 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, i love the idea being able to modify your environment in real time as you work in it < 1249899293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now I'm quite happy with the defaults/pre-made available options in most cases for ERC, but in a few places I hooked in my own code) < 1249899300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now,* < 1249899338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv, anyway, while lisp is awesome, elisp isn't < 1249899383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly due to the dynamic scoping. But even apart from that it is quite sucky compared to scheme (I don't know common lisp, so can't compare with that) < 1249899398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1249901747 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249902244 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-8-203.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249903162 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1249903163 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1249903165 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long time no see :) < 1249903775 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249904973 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1249905054 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249905398 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-203.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249905777 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249906019 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249906433 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249906433 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1249906860 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249907064 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-044-114.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249908342 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249908495 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-044-114.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249909595 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249909697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAXIMISE RADICALNESS IN YOUR EVERY ACTION! < 1249909771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:50:36 's servers for a while went screwy and started not charging people for stuff. < 1249909771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:50:55 ThinkGeek decided to take the opportunity to give out schwag. < 1249909771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:51:17 Not being dicks == impressive. < 1249909771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would buy thinkgeek stuff, but the last time I got something from there the import tax was like £70 < 1249909873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:44 ehird: nostalgic over this http://web.archive.org/web/19961030202549/http://www.brooklinesw.com/geoport.html ? < 1249909874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249909876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't even alive then < 1249909880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249909882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was one year old, rather < 1249909954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: how do you think using the fancy shmancy multi touch trackpad on the new macbook pros would go for musak < 1249909963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be fun < 1249909984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:48:44 pretty sure I have seen someone in here try to use a desktop keyboard for playing music < 1249909985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah lament posted a video < 1249910010 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i dunno, how would you use it? < 1249910024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno! :P < 1249910035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would prolly work best in combination < 1249910036 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if your hands are busy playing stuff < 1249910049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do, like, modulation with it < 1249910059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that's fairly useless and not multitouchy < 1249910135 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touchpad could work pretty well as a volume control, except that the hands are already occupied < 1249910166 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the only solution i see is some kind of pedal (possibly the mouse) < 1249910178 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your nose is also free. < 1249910215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Free lament's nose, only today on #esoteric! Terms and restrictions may apply. Order valid only while supplies last." < 1249910294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: eh, keyboards (musical kind) have sliders and shit next to the keys < 1249910356 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that' true < 1249910377 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a keyboardist so i don't know how they work or what they're useful for < 1249910403 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen the pitch bender thing but can't imagine a use for it < 1249910440 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that would look absolutely fucking brilliant < 1249910494 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pitch bending is very useful if you are trying to imitate the sounds of non keyboard instruments < 1249910519 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, even a well sampled synth brass instrument is going to sound quite 'lifeless' if the samples are 'straight on' pitch unless you bend into them a bit < 1249910546 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for something like playing pseudo-electric guitar on a digital keyboard, the pitch bending and other 'expression' controls are invaluable < 1249910556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some sort of use-your-tongue-like-a-joystic things also exist. < 1249910573 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its not 'tongue as a joystick' its breath control if im thinking of the same things... < 1249910585 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i havent kept up with all the toys so maybe there is a tongue joystick < 1249910588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:57:49 oklokol: the relationship of symmetry and music is absolutely fascinating - for instance, the 'symmetrical division' of the octave is the frightful tritone, the devil in music! < 1249910588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's the Boîte Diabolique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5cWWV0KNDg&fmt=18#t=5m42s < 1249910610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick Googling only found http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26338543/ < 1249910618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not as a product yet, but still. < 1249910622 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm imagining some kind of pedal contraption with a wooden frame for the mouse, s.t. when you press on the pedal, the mouse moves < 1249910622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the modulation is useful for pretending you have a theremin. < 1249910670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: uhh just hook the pedal up to the computer < 1249910675 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there are things very much like the boite diabolique that are quite real, microtonal keyboards have been around for hundreds of years actually < 1249910693 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that requires a pedal < 1249910707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yes, ear-bleeding notes of fucked up colours. :P < 1249910709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are locked < 1249910713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: mehhhhhhhh < 1249910722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i'm more interested in using things directly rather than hacking them up < 1249910746 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that requires buying such a pedal, if it even exists < 1249910759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: of course it exists, but < 1249910762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gives a shit about pedals < 1249910764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're conventional and boring. < 1249910829 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, using the tongue would be much better < 1249910845 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course the perfect solution would be a touch-sensitive computer keyboard < 1249910850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't appreciate the utilisation of gizmos and gadgets < 1249910852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck no < 1249910858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tactile <3 < 1249910872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the perfect solution would be total virtual reality of course. < 1249910889 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perfect solution would be to become a lesbian. < 1249910903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds about right. < 1249911072 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249911103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, no < 1249911121 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5cWWV0KNDg&fmt=18#t=5m42s <<< what the absolute fuck is this < 1249911162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look around you < 1249911166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an excellent educational program < 1249911179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well was < 1249911193 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it meant to be like some kinda bad surreal humor < 1249911207 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, i don't get it < 1249911216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course you're not going to like it just jumping in like that, also the music episode isn't the best. < 1249911232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2NOTanzWI&fmt=18 is prolly a better start. < 1249911254 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are you saying it is supposed to be educational? i'm just asking what the point is < 1249911276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, oklokol. It is really trying to teach people about the twelve forbidden notes on every piano... < 1249911359 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll assume it is, because i can't come up with another possibility < 1249911381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the boite diabolique is just filler in between segments < 1249911395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had heard of "edutainment" and "infotainment", but "edugamement" was a new one. < 1249911409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not related.) < 1249911419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokol: srsly, just watch the maths episode, it's good :P < 1249911467 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2NOTanzWI&fmt=18 <<< okay, this is humor, even rather funny < 1249911473 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err and yeah that's the math < 1249911878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokol: what does "err and yeah that's the math" mean :P < 1249911937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what would those words mean < 1249911940 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it was exactly the maths episode you were talking about < 1249911947 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was that not terribly clear! < 1249911951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, containment of education/info for the first wo? < 1249911959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two* < 1249911970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one I have no clue about < 1249912013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entertainment, not containment. < 1249912015 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have my mind wrapped around the music episode too < 1249912021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Edutainment (also educational entertainment or entertainment-education) is a form of entertainment designed to educate as well as to amuse." < 1249912023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1249912049 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that sounds absolutely horrible < 1249912054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean like really boring programs by Utbildningsradion? < 1249912070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it generally is quite horrible, yes. < 1249912074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and no clue what is the equivalent in UK or US) < 1249912084 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i see an example of it now, please < 1249912110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edulamement < 1249912112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "educational games" could be lumped under edutainment, but apparently there is also a (fortunately not much used) new term "edugamement" for that. < 1249912114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SNAP! < 1249912223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Statistics can no longer be considered reliable, or reliably available going forward. < 1249912224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, all tr.im links will continue to redirect, and will do so until at least December 31, 2009. < 1249912224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your tweets with tr.im URLs in them will not be affected.]] < 1249912225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, ha, ha < 1249912235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that, people who say "naw, a URL shortening service would NEVER disappear!" < 1249912280 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im eager to find those people and say 'i told you so' also, apart from the fact that i never met any of them, and i never heard of tr.im before today < 1249912294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then you are not the target market of my statement! < 1249912306 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the context of this < 1249912363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm flying people < 1249912367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zoooooooooooooooooooooom < 1249912378 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1249912428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDD YAY FLYING < 1249912429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1249912432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is no way for us to monetize URL shortening -- users won't pay for it --" Really! < 1249912444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDD FLYING PEOPLE *ONLY*!!!!!! http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249912450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :FLYING PEOPLE *ONLY* :DDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!! http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249912453 0 :nooga!n=nooga@94.254.244.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249912453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: quite < 1249912460 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? there are free url shortening services? man im gonna find that guy ive been paying $5 to every week and kick his ass < 1249912464 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1249912466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: :D < 1249912561 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a tool that analyzes C++ code to visualize what classes are needed for other classes to function etc? < 1249912567 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, i spend all my time on the internet, but i still live in a different world - i read stuff like "twitter's ecosystem has lots of developers" and i dont even have the vaguest clue what 'developing for twitter' even means < 1249912604 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only have a vague idea what twitter is < 1249912614 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its a service popular with twits < 1249912636 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to get either a good ZX Spectrum assembler for the PC < 1249912636 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my semantic assumption, at least < 1249912640 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a good binary->tape converter < 1249912656 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary->tape? what < 1249912666 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.out binary assembler output -> tape < 1249912671 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1249912672 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tap < 1249912672 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what tape? < 1249912673 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or .tzx < 1249912673 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249912724 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what those contain, i'll just stick with the assumption you want to change the file extension < 1249912752 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.computerbrains.com/tapformat.html < 1249912759 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :siimple < 1249912790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i'm going to try and explain twitter and wtf "programming for twitter" means in one (1) irc line, because i'm fucking insane and hate myself < 1249912817 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know twitter is some kind of web platform for push/pull of tiny text segments < 1249912840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, the .tap format's simple because it's pretty much just an image of the tape contents; it's not that trivial to get a binary on it so that the target system can load it from the tape. < 1249912900 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but if you have appropriate binary < 1249912922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you still have to find out how the binary is stored on the tape. < 1249912946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "data" in that format is just timings for pulses, not binary data. < 1249912972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I would have to guess there are several existing programs to do it. (I last used one some seven years ago and don't remember the name.) < 1249913265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it was that WAV-PRG one, though I have no idea how speccy-friendly it is. < 1249913691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing ehird's task of explaining what Twitter is made him implode. < 1249913715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to do it in five IRC lines but just /msg'd it to mycroftiv since, as nobody cares, I decided to bore as few people as possible < 1249913726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1249913730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do it in one Tweet. < 1249913741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, what, 140 characters? < 1249913745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1249913749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try, with the help of OS X's summariser < 1249913760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but every piece of info in those 5 tweets is required to understand why < 1249913761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to what < 1249913846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION condenses to three paras < 1249913982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, a "why" explanation for twoodler would be nice. That's something I've been asked, and never been able to answer. < 1249914008 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-30-107.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1249914080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can get it down to two IRC messages: what-with-a-bit-of-why, and why < 1249914083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tweet's pushing it a bit < 1249914095 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249914109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two IRC messages is not too shabby either. < 1249914468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost got it in two IRC messages < 1249914552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's the max irc message limit again? < 1249914650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :512 bytes, but two are taken by the potential \r\n at the end, and then it depends on how long the command is; on-channel "PRIVMSG #esoteric :" eats, what, 19 bytes or so. < 1249914654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249914677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 495 < 1249914691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :493 and 508 atm < 1249914745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it! < 1249914762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and now, I will attempt to explain what Twitter is and why it is in two IRC lines. < 1249914765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see all tweets from people you follow. Originally: "what are you doing right now?"; friends see it, talk about it, possibly join in with it. It's also become a thing-in-itself: people carry out conversations through it, etc. Basically, it does a very large amount of what IM services do, a little bit of what email does, and then the bit of its own ("what are you doing right now?"). Also, mention people in your tweet and it shows on one of their tabs, even < 1249914766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Importantly, it's pseudo-real-time: no on/offline; though you get messages as they're posted and can reply then, it can also work as 1/2 per day. Not like IRC technically in this way (unlike IRC in the usage of it (not technically), of course; shares facets though). One thing that doesn't match: hashtags (topics proceeded by #) - not channels because messages don't have continuity; just groupings of messages about the same thing. By searching, you can scan th < 1249914782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1249914785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: don't bother to read that < 1249914789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you didn't account for the name < 1249914794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the :ehird@blahblahshit < 1249914801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wittles it down further < 1249914858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Since it's not in the command, it's just in the messages forwarded by the server, which of course have the same length limit too. < 1249914917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: let's try this again < 1249914920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tweets are sent out to followers. Originally: "what are you doing right now?"; friends see it, talk about it, possibly join in with it. It's also become a thing-in-itself: conversations through it, etc. It does a very large amount of what IM services do, a little bit of what email does, and then the bit of its own ("what are you doing right now?"). < 1249914920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Importantly, pseudo-real-time: no on/offline; you get messages as they're posted and can reply then; can also work as 1/2 per day. Not like IRC technically here (unlike in the usage of it (not technically) too, ofc; shares facets though). Thing that doesn't match: hashtags (topics after #) - not channels, messages don't have continuity; groupings of messages about the same thing. < 1249914926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1249914985 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations. < 1249915205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's sort of like saying "congratulations on your brain enema". < 1249915225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing short form writing is not for is long explanations :P < 1249915642 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249916150 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249916430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is like magic! < 1249916480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1249916483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the length there < 1249916531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :server sends somewhat like this to other clients: < 1249916538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah < 1249916542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misremmeber < 1249916555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc the length limit of 512 applies *from server* too < 1249916558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you deliberately ignore lines that say what you want to say? < 1249916562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again unless I misremember < 1249916627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just doing log reading like you do. since obviously you think this is a good idea. I would assume you want the same applied to yourself < 1249916629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249916653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do try awfully hard to be obnoxious, don't you < 1249916655 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249916723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.orange.co.uk/mobile-phones/toshiba-tg01 // the 1GHz phones are here! < 1249916754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I tried to be kind. Maybe assuming that you like others doing what you do yourself was wrong. < 1249916780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :golden rule and all that. obsolete clearly :P < 1249917172 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249917464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a rumour that Motorola's building two keyboardy Android phones; the second one ("Sholes") might have a 854x480 display (so 266 DPI) and built on the TI OMAP3430; that's a 600 MHz ARM + PowerVR SGX 530 GPU + 430 MHz TI C64x DSP core. < 1249917534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's no gigahertz, but still. Google's been promising that later releases of that "NDK" native-code development kit will allow linking with the OpenGL ES 2.0 and audio libraries. Currently I thinki it's just libc+libm and all "interesting" parts have to be done with their JVM code. < 1249917562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how large is the screen then < 1249917574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"45.72 mm by 81.34 mm". < 1249917581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1249917583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of this is very confirmed information. < 1249917591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1249917612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*waits for dual core processors in phones* < 1249917653 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know < 1249917662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other Motorola thing, "Morrison", is (maybe) going to be some sort of lower-end device, with a 480x320 screen and the "default" 528 MHz ARM that's in the Hero and G1 and whatnot. < 1249917707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's already three cores if you count the CPU, GPU and DSP. (I doubt the DSP is very application-accessible, though, and I don't know how much OpenGL ES 2.0 does programmabilities in shaders and such.) < 1249917725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that "powervr" thing < 1249917749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what brand makes them and such < 1249917755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of that gpu product before < 1249917769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is povervr the brand? < 1249917770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, PowerVR makes them. It's very common for mobile 3D. < 1249917786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently a "division of Imagination Technologies (formerly VideoLogic)". < 1249917791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249917801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in use in many high-end cellphones including the Apple iPhone, Nokia N95, Sony Ericsson P1, and Motorola RIZR Z8" -- quite a list. < 1249917894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the 535 used in the iPhone 3GS does double as many (28 vs. 14) millions of polygons per second as the 530 model. < 1249917900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I still haven't finished logreading yet! < 1249917901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:17 so you prefer atonal serial music, like schonberg or boulez or elliot carter etc? < 1249917902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249917906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've heard some schonberg < 1249917907 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1249917913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i seem to recall it was a lot better than any other classical i've heard. < 1249918009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schönberg had different "periods" in his composing, to begin with he wasn't atonal. iirc < 1249918039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no expert on Schönberg though < 1249918108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a brief googling i conclude that indeed it is awesome < 1249918149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the power glove was ALMOST awesome < 1249918165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the buttons should have been where you'd make a fist < 1249918168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use one hand < 1249918227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:11:19 im a stallman fanatic when it comes to software freedom, but i like much more minimalistic tools than emacs < 1249918227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i use proprietary software just to annoy stallmanites < 1249918269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt the emacs as environment stuff, emacs is a bad lisp os < 1249918280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stupidly focuses on one widget, the text editor < 1249918573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Emacs, minimalist? < 1249918591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a freaking Lisp OS. < 1249918660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more minimalistic than Emacs does not imply much minimalism. < 1249918684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "more minimalistic than emacs". < 1249918687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread that sentence. < 1249918701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More minimialistic, like Emacs." < 1249918819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah. "Tea Party" member starts a brawl in a town hall during a health debate, gets injured. He's now asking for donations, since he doesn't have insurance. < 1249919102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1249919109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll donate minus dollars. < 1249919185 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249919205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll donate exactly one socialist dollar. < 1249919213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka €) < 1249919246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249919287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, http://telcontar.net/Misc/GUI/RISCOS/ < 1249919292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very interesting < 1249919300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. selections are a submenu in the right click < 1249919308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't any global menus, just right clicking < 1249919316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the menus have text input and other things < 1249919322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of an interface unto themselves < 1249919325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*onto, whatever < 1249919365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc it was the first OS with text antialiasing... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/33/RISCOS_4_scr.png < 1249919383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even subpixel, says wikipedia < 1249919404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty awesome when you consider that they also invented ARM < 1249919461 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ui looks pretty wimpy to me. < 1249919464 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make an esolang that resembles an alien language < 1249919470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: "wimpy"? < 1249919478 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is no doubt a good WIMP, but still a wimp < 1249919478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an awful way to classify a gui < 1249919488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it looks, easy, and, and, usable and wimpy" < 1249919496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah yeah i get it) < 1249919497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(joking) < 1249919514 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as in tuomo's definition, windows, icons, menus and pointer < 1249919517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1249919524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: anyway it was released in 1988 < 1249919525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1249919534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: but there are interesting details < 1249919538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of which I mentioned < 1249919540 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/asiekierka/2D-Sandbox/tree/master - something i've been making < 1249919540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that no other OS has afaik < 1249919575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(asiekierka figured out how to use git?) < 1249919601 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1249919607 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much but a bit, yeah < 1249919635 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :FLYING PEOPLE (and wimpy ui's) *ONLY* :DDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!! http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249919647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby ban asiekierka from modifying the topic. < 1249919656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :flaught http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249919674 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: indeed, but too small differences and too late. oberon ui has more chances. < 1249919683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes asiekierka's topic to: main = getArgs >>= parseFromFile toplevel . head >>= either print print < 1249919698 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric is now unofficially #ehirdland | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249919704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop, it, asiekierka < 1249919707 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1249919707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: did I say it's the best UI ever? < 1249919713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just said that it has some interesting aspects < 1249919720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249919740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :I þink þat þis is þorny | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249919744 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _HATE_ you < 1249919748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pony. < 1249919771 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, by the way, does 'fs' in 'hostfs' stand for filesystem? < 1249919785 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not set +t on this channel? < 1249919795 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because no-one is ops heres < 1249919795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: (a) prolly (b) everybody but asiekierka makes fun topics < 1249919805 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249919806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: apart from fizzie and lament < 1249919809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :I þink þat þis is þorny | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249919809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who have both talked a lot today < 1249919838 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :(b) everybody but asiekierka makes fun topics | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249919844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka < 1249919848 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1249919850 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just < 1249919850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Stop being dumb. < 1249919850 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1249919851 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :citing you < 1249919853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish you would either go away or stop changing the topic like that < 1249919857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :I þink þat þis is þorny | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1249919878 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I change the topic like that then < 1249919912 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249919921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stab thee. < 1249919976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ſtab þee < 1249920000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: i thought you were disappearing for a month anyway or something < 1249920039 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c249DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249920040 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249920057 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my weekends aren't that long < 1249920061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1249920068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :durr I'm stupid < 1249920111 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can just shut up and pretend I'm still on vacation. < 1249920124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1249920185 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, speaking of guis, k3 gui is one of the best I've seen < 1249920198 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's purely data-driven and reactive < 1249920226 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc clean has something of the sort, haskell and ocaml still have quite some problems with frp implementations < 1249920237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k3 gui gooling helps not, plz linky < 1249920238 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I haven't seen anything working < 1249920252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my os' ui is hilariously undecided < 1249920276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i haven't even considered FRP, that's how much of a conservative curmudgeon I am! < 1249920335 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the reference is only available as a pdf < 1249920355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine < 1249920363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my OS is unannoying enough to handle PDFs smoothly < 1249920413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Really, it's only Windows that doesn't... < 1249920422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adobe's PDF reader. *shudder* < 1249920433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux doesn't let you view a pdf as smoothly as if it was just an html page does it? < 1249920435 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's your os? < 1249920439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: OS X < 1249920445 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249920446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Windows is indeed the worst < 1249920463 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some examples with screenies: http://nsl.com/papers/calculator.htm < 1249920469 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nsl.com/papers/instant.htm < 1249920480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah an nsl dealie < 1249920482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always fun < 1249920485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: oh k3 < 1249920486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1249920488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k v3 < 1249920497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was some fun obscure os called K3 or sth < 1249920506 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249920506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I thought you mean the UIs themselves were FR somehow < 1249920511 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the k os is called kaos < 1249920516 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's yet to be written < 1249920518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k3's ui code looks very nice, resulting uis are still wimp though < 1249920528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You people know Scheme right? < 1249920533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1249920537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :collectively. :P < 1249920539 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, eh, they are designed to map to x11/winapi? < 1249920544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: well, yeah < 1249920547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just mean the paradigm < 1249920553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a criticism < 1249920557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying i misinterpreted it < 1249920565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: but k doesn't use native windows widgets < 1249920568 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, then tell me whether/why (define-syntax m (syntax-rules () ((m (x ((((#(y))))) ...)) '(y ...)))) is valid with (m (x)) being the empty list < 1249920585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-2.html < 1249920586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249920594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_sec_4.3 < 1249920601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ macro definition < 1249920610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a few pages < 1249920629 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: don't know enough about winapi, but probably. any way, doing an oberon-like thing in this style is even simpler, considering the implementation of acme. < 1249920639 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249920644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acme? i only know it as the wonderful plan 9 editor < 1249920647 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I /definitely/ want such a UI! < 1249920650 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that. < 1249920657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that oberon-style? < 1249920667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acme's pretty damn awesome, needs a bit more discoverability though < 1249920674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically have to know how to do the transformation you want < 1249920677 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite, oberon also did graphics though. < 1249920712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've read it through about 20 times < 1249920725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: meditate a bit, try in a few other implementations < 1249920735 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that means knowing sam (or acme's builtin text processing language which is the same) and unix/plan9 tools < 1249920738 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a platform which doesn't have a BF interpreter yet? < 1249920745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: yeah < 1249920747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1249920751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acme is nice if you know it < 1249920753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not interested in the result, I'm interested in whether the spec says it or not :-P < 1249920770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, and if implementations disagree you need to check the spec more closely < 1249920774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it seems as though it only says "[the pattern variables] are replaced in the output by all of the subforms they match in the input, distributed as indicated." < 1249920776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if they agree it's likely they're right < 1249920800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: try SISC < 1249920809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it passes the extremely perverted R5RS edgecase tests, so < 1249920812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, to me, seems like "it's obvious so we won't go into the details" or "we don't give a shit about the details" and I'm not sure which one they mean < 1249920844 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, limiting the graphical options of a widget toolkit is certainly worth having the ability to code the ui in K3 style < 1249920866 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again: Is there a platform which doesn't have a BF interpreter yet? < 1249920879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: i don't believe limitation of such things is ever neccessary < 1249920889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: we're not answering your question because it's tedious and you ask it all the time < 1249920968 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, it's not that easy to map some more obscure gui elements to the data < 1249920978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the paradigm is limited < 1249920993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokol's os/ui ideas seem to strike a nice balance, vague as they are < 1249920996 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249921000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they map quite a bit to mine < 1249921063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklokol: basically (I'm going to be second-hand egotistical (does that even make sense?) and assume you vaguely care), < 1249921071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249921072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: < 1249921106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some data (object, whatever) is viewed/modified through the "view" of some behaviour defining a ui element < 1249921107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: SISC agrees with mzscheme < 1249921119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this directly manipulates the underlying data reference < 1249921119 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't care, I want to know where the hell they're getting this from < 1249921130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can take out the object and give it a new interface and they sync up < 1249921144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could e.g. < 1249921144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be running a rotate view on an image, < 1249921149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then take out the underlying object and put it in a zoom view < 1249921151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then set a zoom < 1249921155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you used the rotate view some more < 1249921161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the zoomer would update according to the new underlying object < 1249921175 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds somewhat close to MVC to me. < 1249921182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: it's not, though < 1249921188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's far more functional/non-destructive < 1249921197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "views" are much more lightweight < 1249921214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very close to directly manipulating the object < 1249921223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the viewing/manipulation is abstracted away < 1249921224 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason frp works in k3 is that it has a very simple type system, doing what you're proposing probably requires much more < 1249921234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this could work trivially with dynamic/duck typing < 1249921244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need objects < 1249921247 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K does that, but only for a string repr.: < 1249921267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, you basically making UIs by composing mini objects with abstracted direct-manipulations < 1249921268 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every value is assigned two functions, ..f and ..u, which is format and update respectively < 1249921281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and feed the underlying data into other things < 1249921284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus locking things together < 1249921293 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first maps the value to string, the second does the reverse whenever the user updates the screen view < 1249921353 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, again, the same as with acme: we vaguely inderstand how to do all this with plain text but not with anything else < 1249921373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really don't think the idea i'm expressing is mvc though < 1249921407 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recall the usual wysiwyg problem, you just can't present rich text on screen in an editable way so you could re-serialize it with some degree of common sense < 1249921434 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what you're expressing is very close to what K does < 1249921436 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1249921442 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249921453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is that you can build any sort of UI with it, because it's essentially completely generic < 1249921457 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw this, this is UB. < 1249921462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as your UI maps to some tangible data, which is always good UI practice < 1249921513 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, our ajax k ui thingy seems to be in the middle of a yet another revamp, so I can't show you that on the web < 1249921549 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it basically doesn't do editing now < 1249921564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you the nsl.com owner? unless there's a bunch of people who do both K and esolangs < 1249921569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I wouldn't put past the language < 1249921616 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1249921703 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249921729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that killed the channel :) < 1249921737 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the person behind nsl.com is stevan apter < 1249921762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :) < 1249921793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249921824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i've looked into k it's just seemed like it's bogged down by corporate concerns etc and there's no real easy way to get into programming fun stuff with it < 1249921886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that program by kx that converted k code into english made an impression on me though < 1249921897 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see, stevan does. :-) I'm trying as well. < 1249921901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1249921909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: is my impression that k4/q sort of drifts away from this sort of stuff correct? < 1249921921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't find a free k3 binary anywhere. < 1249921939 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it has neither ui nor the dependency/fr stuff < 1249921951 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nsl.com/misc/int/ < 1249921962 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both documentation and distributions < 1249921966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: heh, it just had to have every platform but mine < 1249921974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know k4 supports osx, maybe k3 didn't < 1249921987 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, only linux, solaris and windows :-( < 1249921998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uberlame < 1249922032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know qemu has something that might let me run the linux one natively < 1249922035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that forwards the syscalls or something < 1249922035 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed I find k4/q much less fun < 1249922041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that just same-os, different-arch i wonder < 1249922044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc it only works on linux < 1249922070 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osx is ought to have some linux syscall emulator < 1249922078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit of a niche market < 1249922085 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every other os (well, except windows) seems to have one < 1249922087 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249922093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need it for games like bsd, because more games exist for osx than linux, < 1249922108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most other "linux" only software is foss and works on bsds too < 1249922113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of which osx is one) < 1249922127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proprietary app that supports linux but not osx is a rare thing < 1249922182 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, then you're probably out of luck ;-) < 1249922196 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then wait while we finish the web version of k3 ui < 1249922199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[QEMU has two operating modes[2]: < 1249922199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :User mode emulation < 1249922200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU can launch Linux or Darwin/Mac OS X processes compiled for one CPU on another CPU. Target OS system calls are thunked for endianness and 32/64 bit mismatches.]] < 1249922201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dammit* < 1249922222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: is that like some try ruby sorta dealie < 1249922228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tryruby.hobix.com < 1249922264 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye, *this* functionality already works, but the ui can only do scalars and number lists < 1249922278 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't that much fun < 1249922304 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also one (mis)feature tryruby lacks is of course the ability to do a rm -rf * < 1249922323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, a feature? :D < 1249922324 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because K has no built-in ways to disable harmful stuff < 1249922335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor ruby < 1249922344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tryruby uses why's freaky deaky sandbox (real name) < 1249922351 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249922362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a patch to the impl and some gnarly ruby code < 1249922375 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then I could as well. K seems to feel pretty comfortable chrootted to an empty dir < 1249922399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do what GregorR's HackEgo does < 1249922400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1249922401 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.23971 < 1249922403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: use plash < 1249922409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a debian thingy that lets you totally isolate stuff < 1249922413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrooted, random user id each time < 1249922418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syscalls selectively enabled etc < 1249922480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if i could convince cygwin to compile on os x < 1249922492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(answer: no) < 1249922605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.openlina.com/ iiinteresting, apparently you can make it seamlessly do linux cli apps on os x < 1249922610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as well as gui apps on etc etc) < 1249922623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1249922625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i'll try it < 1249922704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: am I right in thinking that most of k's benefit comes from the libs rather than the core language? < 1249922711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem like it'd be hard to reimplement the latter < 1249922779 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly, it seems that it's the other way around < 1249922789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1249922793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the semantics don't seem overly complex. < 1249922807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: of course, i know the paradigm is powerful < 1249922814 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least while quite a lot of smart people like K, there isn't any implementation < 1249922822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1249922830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't any implementation? < 1249922832 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one reason maybe it that the existing one is good enough for them. :-) < 1249922836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249922843 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, except the official one < 1249922852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: it's just a question of, if you reimplemented the core language and not the libs, people wouldn't use it < 1249922863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it'd be, while a powerful paradigm, not very useful < 1249922865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1249922875 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see, the most surprising thing is that there aren't any "libs" < 1249922883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gui, f'instance < 1249922884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kdb < 1249922890 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, there is a lot of stuff people use on the internet, but it's not standard < 1249922892 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kdb -- yes < 1249922898 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gui is built-in < 1249922904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just trying to figure out if/why a foss would be hard/impractical < 1249922918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, ok, so there's no libs < 1249922921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that just means the core language is big < 1249922924 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a question I keep wondering about for almost a year now. < 1249922924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the gui < 1249922932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a foss reimplementation < 1249922936 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the gui is about 60% of the implementation < 1249922936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't go around dropping words. < 1249922941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1249922950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and without the gui, it wouldn't be nearly as useful, i gather < 1249922971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately a reimplementation would be almost possible unless you're a k guru since all you have is a binary blob... < 1249922975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the docs are really precise < 1249922987 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1249923003 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and then comes the question why the said 'k gurus' don't reimplement it. < 1249923021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, kref.pdf is ridiculously long < 1249923023 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249923023 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the nsl.com owner, who has created a few dozen k-like languages /in k/ < 1249923037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: better things to do i guess < 1249923061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're on supported platforms, don't want to change the language in ways that require the source and have a copy of the impl & manual < 1249923064 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I asked him about it he said that the implementation doesn't matter, ideas do < 1249923083 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually I guess he has the source as well. :-) < 1249923085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a wonderful philosophical yammering but doesn't change the reality of what the closed-sourceness limits :P < 1249923090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, exactly < 1249923095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closed source seems fine from the inside < 1249923108 0 :pikhq__!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249923109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: probably also a question of loyalty to kx < 1249923166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, seems that way to me < 1249923184 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what I figured, but the question is harder than that -- there is a now-opensource a+ which is a k predecessor and shares many features with it < 1249923192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked at a+ < 1249923194 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and basically noone seems to be interested in it < 1249923196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frankly the code looks ugly < 1249923198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1249923199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the A+ code < 1249923200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the impl < 1249923207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to lack things like the gui < 1249923228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: I think the people who would use A+ use J instead < 1249923235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a single reason to use A+ instead of J < 1249923263 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source availability again? :-) < 1249923284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: but nobody seems to care about that :\ < 1249923286 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't say there aren't any places in K I wouldn't like to tweak a bit < 1249923288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in this circle < 1249923313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tempted to try reimplementing K < 1249923326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a nice way to learn it ;-) < 1249923341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K's gui does look like the nicest way to hack a quick UI up on current systems < 1249923361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if I wanted something polished, i.e. not just something for me and a few others to quickly jab at, i'd always hand-craft it on current systems < 1249923370 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what my friend and me are doing for the last year or so, however, we're currently mostly doing K code than implement K < 1249923389 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want, come join us < 1249923401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? :P < 1249923429 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately we mostly do xmpp < 1249923443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a google talk account, though adium's chat support is lacking. < 1249923452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1249923453 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, we use a MUC :-( < 1249923455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: colloquy does xmpp! < 1249923463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as SILC and some ancient protocol called ICB < 1249923466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so xmpp is fine < 1249923473 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1249923497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm not sure how you do a MUC on another server with xmpp < 1249923523 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your client should have an explicit option for that < 1249923656 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the C implementation we just hit a wall because we apparently needed something cooler than CPP < 1249923714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: something more than cpp? have you SEEN arthur whitney's j prototype? :D < 1249923734 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249923736 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen, read and -i hope- understood < 1249923746 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as some amount of a+ and j7 code. < 1249923748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after de-cppization you can sort of understand it IME < 1249923765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably go crazy and write it in Haskell or Scheme < 1249923769 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(j7 is an old source-available version of J) < 1249923769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because why not?!?! < 1249923775 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we tried SML < 1249923808 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got stuck because it lacked high-order polymorphism and so there was boilerplate all over the code < 1249923817 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249923821 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, haskell would be slow, K is fast ;-) < 1249923824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has polyhistomorphic functors up the wazoo! < 1249923826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: HEY! < 1249923828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell ain't slow. < 1249923833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc's pretty sufficiently smart < 1249923853 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249923853 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249923853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249923977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: Unless your definition of slow is "slightly slower than C", Haskell is pretty fast. < 1249924002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249924017 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249924024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: you'll have to repeat your last /msg or two < 1249924026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :client crashed < 1249924040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: Unless your definition of slow is "slightly slower than C", Haskell is pretty fast. < 1249924046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what thou missed. < 1249924066 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: K as in a marketed solution pretty much depends on gcc sse vectorisations, so sorry, we need you beloved for(;;) loops. < 1249924086 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249924087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: haskell has smart vectorisation actually. < 1249924122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249924133 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249924136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehehehehe < 1249924140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to repeat your last /msg again :-( < 1249924146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION deletes all contacts from gtalk < 1249924150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe my client won't crash then < 1249924186 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249924204 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just use bitlbee with your irc client < 1249924219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much work. I'll just make a jabber.org account < 1249924223 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249924249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that was easy < 1249924254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :username, password, repeat password, captcha < 1249924256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249924271 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249924274 0 :oklokol!n=oklopol@a91-153-125-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249924274 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249924318 0 :pikhq__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249924358 0 :fizzie`!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249924358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249924582 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249924615 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1249924625 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249924919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: how fast IS k btw? < 1249924940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get the impression it's basically going at the speed of light wrt the bog-standard vector operation < 1249924949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deriving any speed benefits from that < 1249924959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can it run on a gpu? :)) < 1249925046 0 :oklokol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1249925109 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually k has the same speed as good C code < 1249925127 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for the very reason of it being a thin wrapper around good C array processing code < 1249925137 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw people run Q with CUDA < 1249925164 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, implementing K functions in C is very easy < 1249925185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the issue is when you do something that isn't really an array < 1249925192 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay, so K gets you good data parallelism. < 1249925201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( yeah, we can't do all these things: nothing) < 1249925266 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, data parallelism is not hard to do well. < 1249925284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Is that a vaguely dressed diss of K I see before me?! < 1249925293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249925318 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not especially. Data parallelism does need to be done well. It's more a complaint about people focusing *soley* on that. < 1249925333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used an array language? < 1249925337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not for the performance < 1249925339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for the paradigm < 1249925355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are genuinely pleasant to use < 1249925370 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah; K seems to focus on making it very clear what the code's doing, and it just happens to get good performance. < 1249925410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr < 1249925413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is very, very implicit < 1249925425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least by my reading. < 1249925450 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... Algorithmically. < 1249925456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, though < 1249925462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K's algorithms are all internal < 1249925463 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k isn't that large, but it's difficult to read unless you know all the syntax < 1249925467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i'm reading it very wrongly < 1249925473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never really see actual K algorithms < 1249925475 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. I'm saying this wrong. < 1249925476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does them for you < 1249925487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kx.com/a/k/examples/read.k is still one of my favourite pieces of code to date < 1249925522 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it clear that you're, say, "doing vector operations foo bar and baz to vectors 1 through 3", I mean. < 1249925531 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I may just be sounding stupid right now. < 1249925532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: vectors 1 through 3? < 1249925534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean "vectors" < 1249925542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector operations? you mean regular operations? :P < 1249925545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: http://www.kx.com/a/k/examples/calc.k // am i reading this correctly as oop? < 1249925552 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1249925554 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Yes. < 1249925556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it copies J's ugly of using strings as method bodies < 1249925567 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nope < 1249925572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what're those strings then < 1249925583 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean dots or what? < 1249925583 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249925595 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, it's trying to be like APL, without the need for a space cadet keyboard. < 1249925624 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sorry? < 1249925632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc.eval:"exp:5:. exp" < 1249925634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1249925644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: no, that's j < 1249925653 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm being dumb, then. < 1249925666 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc is a dictionary, that is a keyed table < 1249925675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the strings < 1249925684 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an entry 'eval' has the given value < 1249925703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a string < 1249925705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's it a string < 1249925707 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1249925726 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the K reference it is stated that when a data item is shown as a button its action is determined by evaluating its value < 1249925730 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's the code to run < 1249925799 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 08:49:47 --- quit: Asztal (Success) < 1249925801 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exp:5:. exp is something like "exp = show $ eval exp" in something like haskell < 1249925804 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn all these successful errors < 1249925820 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, something like something like. < 1249925840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an 'eval' function in Haskell? < 1249925841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olegfink: so, right, as a string < 1249925878 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, because k ui generally prefers strings over niladic functions < 1249925903 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249925903 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-117-019.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249925909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249925921 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249925968 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249926262 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@129.33.193.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249926458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ĝis" < 1249926632 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249926758 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.1/20090707221522]" < 1249926773 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-255.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249927636 0 :fizzie`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fizzie < 1249927711 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249928212 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249928317 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh ewird < 1249928322 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1249928361 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the count of something is: something count or somethings count? < 1249928368 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user count or users count? < 1249928381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Users" < 1249928389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"User count" < 1249928401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't say that. < 1249928444 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" but don't say that." ... why not? < 1249928450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awkward. < 1249928483 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like I'm going to have to go figure out the people-who-find-that-phrasing-awkward count. < 1249928490 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249928493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's less awkward. < 1249928503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1249928536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you on drugs? < 1249928538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it! < 1249928557 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on it < 1249928562 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like drugs < 1249928575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on like < 1249928579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks drugs it < 1249928597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are drugs it? < 1249928603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the drugs look < 1249928605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you look on < 1249928719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like drugs the < 1249928724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a a the drugs like the < 1249928739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i on the is the i'm it the looks < 1249928864 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1249928922 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249929186 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249929496 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole K look weird < 1249929509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1249929740 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1249929837 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking about buying Snow Leopard < 1249930116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll set you back all of less than 30bux < 1249930238 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it's worth it < 1249930255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249930278 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1249930306 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249930306 0 :MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-255.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249930309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: i haven't used it < 1249930328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, only an iphone user would consider $30 a lot for software, why in my day we had bbedit < 1249930330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it cost $99 < 1249930335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we were happy, we were < 1249930363 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1249930600 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google bbedit < 1249930601 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBEdit 9. Bare Bones Software develops and publishes software for OS X, ... Get started with a look at BBEdit, our flagship editor or Yojimbo, ... \ www.barebones.com/ - [13]Cached - [14]Similar < 1249930615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: since System 6 iirc < 1249930620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "canonical" macintosh code editor < 1249930628 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People wrote code on System 6? < 1249930637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: People wrote code on System 1. :P < 1249930645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, well, everything was plain text back then. < 1249930648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, non-code too. < 1249930651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless it was word processed) < 1249930664 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My boss at Intel, who previously worked at Apple, told horror stories of cross-compiling all their code from AIX workstations. < 1249930691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AIX Version 1, introduced in 1986 for the IBM 6150 RT workstation" < 1249930701 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is in the PPC days, mind you. < 1249930702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Release date April, 1988 (info)" — [[System 6]] < 1249930715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: yeah, ppc came in the system 7 days < 1249930722 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of this I am aware. < 1249930738 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if they were using AIX for PPC, I find it hard to believe they did everything natively on m68k :P < 1249930818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I know that there have been programs written on System 6, for System 6, in its heyday. < 1249930841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, Mark Pilgrim's GPL'd (basically the only programs to be licensed that way at the time) apps. < 1249930842 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't doubt it, I just find it terrifying :) < 1249930844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://diveintomark.org/projects/classic/ < 1249930887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system 6 is quite capable < 1249930952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW 1.0 was apparently released in 1986, and I'm sure someone used it too. < 1249930973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that thing < 1249930974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codeworks < 1249930976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was < 1249931012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think CodeWarrior at least did some 68k stuff. < 1249931026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that thing < 1249931029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, urbandictionary confuses me < 1249931031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[A word describing somebody who is uncomfortable being openly amiable and kind, so they give more subtle hints to their goodwill while maintaining a disagreeable exterior. See also. < 1249931031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That man spent the entire meal complaining to me about my service, and then he left me a $5 tip. He's totally aggressive passive.]] < 1249931037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's brain explodes < 1249931081 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249931083 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1249931090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CodeWarrior people did a Symbian development system too. And something for the PlayStation. < 1249931124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Even more amazing was the Macintosh Development System, an assembly-only tool that was Apple's very first tool for developing on the Mac (earlier Mac software was cross-developed on the Lisa). MDS will run on a Mac 512 with System 2!" < 1249931144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CodeWarrior was originally developed by Metrowerks based on a C compiler and environment for 68k, developed by Andreas Hommel and licensed to Metrowerks. The first versions of CodeWarrior targeted the PowerPC Macintosh, with much of the development done by a group from the original THINK C team. Much like THINK C, which was known for its fast compile times, CodeWarrior was faster than Macintosh Programmer's Workshop (MPW), the development tools written by App < 1249931149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1249931150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THINK_C < 1249931154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1986 grr < 1249931163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: lisa makes sense < 1249931163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249931165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1249931166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW's free nowadays, which is nice. I installed some version on that Performa. < 1249931185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to install it but it's distributed as 9348578934579345 separate files < 1249931187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each component < 1249931279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FTP site has single .img.bin files in addition to the Segmented_Image ".img_NNof24.bin" nonsense. At least for some parts. Don't remember how it was when I installed it. < 1249931295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, a fuckton of .img.bin files < 1249931536 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bellard.org/otcc/otcc.c man, this is nice < 1249931561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bellard.org/tcc/ non-obfuscated cousHOLY SHIT < 1249931567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 64-bit guy who gave up just got a release! < 1249931575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thanks to Shinichiro Hamaji for this." < 1249931577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude. < 1249931579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's shinh. < 1249931581 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait whaaaaaaa < 1249931609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shinh of anarchy golf revived tcc along with someone else :D < 1249931642 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schweet. < 1249931683 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that otcc looks awesome < 1249931947 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOPCC < 1249931972 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :International Obfuscated Pascal Code Contest < 1249931977 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha < 1249932011 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should exist < 1249932014 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, IOCCC looks awesome < 1249932028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program WhatTheFuck(Input, Output); < 1249932038 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program W(I,O); < 1249932049 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses crt < 1249932062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249932067 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOBCC < 1249932072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going by very old pascal here < 1249932073 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :International Obfuscated Bash Code Contest < 1249932088 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh < 1249932170 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of a Piet interpreter in obfuscated C :P < 1249932189 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd be too big < 1249932237 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait < 1249932244 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C obfuscator in obfuscated C, maybe < 1249932256 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't anyone do thatr < 1249932258 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do that* < 1249932316 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I could run the C obfuscator through a C beautifer and use my C obfuscator on the result so we can see if it's better or worse than human work < 1249932325 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...That makes sense in a very nonsensical way < 1249932371 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'm not the first one to request pascal < 1249932371 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nabble.com/Silly-Syntax-Games-td171449.html < 1249932657 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s w(h) e. < 1249932666 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a hello world in obfuscated-ish pascal < 1249932676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd wager you weren't < 1249932811 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1249932816 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whar do you mean < 1249933043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager < 1249933121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pascal's wager must have been a troll < 1249933124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so hilariously wrong < 1249933180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it was posthumous < 1249933199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :posthumorous < 1249933202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was not humorous at all < 1249933596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very grave matter indeed < 1249933607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides < 1249933621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder why there aren't virtual machines that can change their memory allocation dynamically according to need. < 1249934115 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249934189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean by that; if you just mean adding/removing memory allocated to a particular quest system, at least Xen and I think KVM can do that for Linux guests with the "balloon" driver. < 1249934254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quest system < 1249934282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. They're operating systems that are on a sort of a vision quest. < 1249934314 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1249934342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i meant automatically < 1249934343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1249934348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's using n megs, it gets n+a little megs < 1249934349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of < 1249934351 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-9-255.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249934354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this vm wants umm 573 mb < 1249934359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops i ran out of fake memory < 1249934387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't get it < 1249934392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably never will < 1249934406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately i'm not the one being talked to, because i'm being inactive < 1249934409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that there's the mechanisms for dynamically changing the memory amounts, I'm sure someone has rigged up some sort of automatic system. < 1249934520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Running Xen" book says "If a user desired an automatic policy for memory management, one could be written without much trouble" and then some ideas about scripting one, but maybe it hasn't been implemented. < 1249934586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMware ESX apparently (haven't used it) has some sort of system where you define minimum, maximum and percentage shares for all machines, and then it periodically samples those machines and steals memory from machines not using it, and gives it to heavily loaded ones. < 1249934747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xen isn't acceptable < 1249934750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm running other oses < 1249934766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically running server ubuntu, mounting os x dirs, hiding it then sshing in < 1249934768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := linux emulator < 1249935797 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1249935856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: why huh < 1249935895 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1249935907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1249935909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why say why < 1249935910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249935911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why say huh < 1249935971 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to run separate OSes on multi-core processor so that they feel as if ran on single computer? < 1249935985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1249935988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga doesn't know what a vm is. < 1249935995 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1249936016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: modern vms run the instructions directly on your hardware < 1249936016 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to run lilnux in a vm that is a program in OS X's user space < 1249936017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with VT-e < 1249936027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this happens in kernel spac < 1249936027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1249936033 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to run linux and OS X parallel < 1249936033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only emulated part is the devices < 1249936039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑, you're being stupid < 1249936040 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1249936043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1249936049 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i know i'm stupid < 1249936057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you could make an OS that optimises the shit out of the devices part and only runs a vm < 1249936060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice and fast < 1249936121 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought there is some thin layer that allows to boot several OSes at once and keep them running on separate cores sharing ram and shit < 1249936158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a "VM OS" running multiple vms with uber-optimised virtual devices (can't get around that) < 1249936165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with dynamic memory allocation, I guess < 1249936193 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be done by hardware :D < 1249936328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1249936334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware doesn't do task switching, either < 1249936338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we don't complain about the performance of that < 1249936348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that VM products have to route the virtual devices through an existing OS < 1249936355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which adds a lot of overhead < 1249936356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249936361 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249936362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1249936570 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1249936717 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got PC and mac and 2 lcd displays, it'd be cool to place the displays next to each other and use one keyboard and mouse, like i'm moving mouse cursor from one screen to another (from OS X to linux, for instance) and keyboard automagically changes focus + ability to drag files from one desktop to another would be nice < 1249936759 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it's possible with a piece of clever hardware and relatively simple software on both machines < 1249936793 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, just one slightly-more-clever piece of software. < 1249936850 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1249936878 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liek connecting input devices to one computer and writing network based mouse+kbd driver for the second computer < 1249936909 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooooooor .. http://synergy2.sf.net/ < 1249936913 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1249936918 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew it < 1249936951 0 :ski__!n=md9slj@remote3.student.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249937033 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's such a good idea that it had to be done ;D < 1249937078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using Synergy2 for that lately; earlier I used a VNC client I wrote that did not fetch display updates at all, just sent keyboard and mouse events, but that had some video-related problems. < 1249937085 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There would be advantages to the hardware/software version. < 1249937402 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1249937532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249937627 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1249937826 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249938135 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249939788 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249940584 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249940767 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attack of the pikhqs! < 1249941026 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1249941027 0 :MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-14-3.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249941037 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249941048 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1249941052 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolcats are over a hundred years old < 1249941075 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/AntiqueLolcat.jpg < 1249941079 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1249941083 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a postcard from 1905 < 1249941087 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249941095 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a lolcat :P < 1249941107 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was, it'd say "WHERE R MY DIN-DIN" < 1249941128 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well remember < 1249941132 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was a more civilized time < 1249941135 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249941136 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before the breakdown of kitty grammar < 1249941227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol a cat < 1249941244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is your father's grammar, for a more... civilized age. < 1249941265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that some kinda reference to something < 1249941265 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: NO QUOTING XKCD < 1249941275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It's the Star Wars, you may have heard of it. < 1249941287 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it's xkcd now :P < 1249941295 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I totally forgot that that was a reference >_> < 1249941303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they stole it; though the parentheses thing wasn't original in xkcd either. < 1249941306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actully do vaguely remember seeing something like that on xkcd < 1249941308 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I think it wasn't. < 1249941340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the context in sw < 1249941354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It's about Luke's father's lightsaber. < 1249941362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a more elegant weapon than some clumsy blaster. < 1249941378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Obi-Wan guy's presenting it to Luke. < 1249941382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249941383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, is it "*from* a more..."? < 1249941410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your father's light saber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age." < 1249941431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you trust IMDb. < 1249941451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rights. < 1249941459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it funny that obi wan talks about blaster randomness < 1249941471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's obi wan again < 1249941473 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the storm trooper blasters are notorious for being compeltely random < 1249941473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems I misspelled "light saber", though. < 1249941495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: He's the "old mentor" guy, you must know the type. < 1249941506 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, hes the obiwan of starwars < 1249941532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is he yoda < 1249941536 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no < 1249941541 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoda is the yoda of star wars < 1249941555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you're doing there! < 1249941557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...stop it < 1249941558 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then who was phone? < 1249941569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the famous part in the first movie about "only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise", when they for the remaining part of the saga can't hit the broad side of a barn. < 1249941574 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lh3.ggpht.com/haymansbeard/RrFkGaI8arI/AAAAAAAAAI4/QdCbNRmw-ag/s512/Obi+Wan+Kenobi+01+Large.JPG << obiwan < 1249941576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.classesandcareers.net/education-careers/wp-content/uploads/yoda.jpg << yoda < 1249941593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell them apart by the colour. < 1249941603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that dude < 1249941606 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi, dont be racist < 1249941614 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i do in fact remember yoda < 1249941625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talked funnily did he. < 1249941629 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember all things except human faces < 1249941630 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judge them not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character judge them by. < 1249941634 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he did fizzie < 1249941636 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not like that :D < 1249941650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*talk? < 1249941653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I didn't want to be a plagiarist. < 1249941666 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSV, fizzie < 1249941667 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his syntax was mostly OSV < 1249941672 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not entirely < 1249941690 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language log has a whole slew of posts on yoda grammar < 1249941703 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... it'd be "he talked funnily"? < 1249941710 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249941713 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1249941714 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's SVO < 1249941720 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily is O? < 1249941722 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily he talked, hmmMMMmm? < 1249941731 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its not O < 1249941751 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1249941760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN I GUESS YOU WERE NOT BEING 100% TRUTHISHFULL THERE HUH < 1249941770 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor wasnt, at least < 1249941776 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said "but not entirely" :D < 1249941781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1249941789 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's effectively the object. Object doesn't always imply noun. < 1249941792 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is true that he can be OSV and still do that sort of thing < 1249941794 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in grammar it doesn't. < 1249941801 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: its actually not really an object < 1249941822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: so not the object < 1249941829 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an adverbial modifier < 1249941829 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is more of an object < 1249941837 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the original sentence was "he funnily talked", then "funnily" would be an adverbial modifier. < 1249941847 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no gregor < 1249941854 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an adverbial in both cases < 1249941866 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact "he funnily talked" is rather bad < 1249941881 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manner adverbials prefer to follow the VP in english < 1249941913 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grammar, Gregor hates. < 1249941921 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now THAT is an object. :) < 1249941941 0 :pikhq__!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249941953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he funnily talked himself out of the situation; he talked funnily during it < 1249941958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249941963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i guess that's not right. < 1249941989 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"he funnily talked ..." sounds more like a parenthetical to me < 1249941993 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in like < 1249942003 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"he funnily enough talked himself out of the situation! haha :D" < 1249942004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"funnily enough, he ..."? < 1249942006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1249942075 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i just tried to make a "funnily enough", you make me so self-conscious of my not being native that everything feels incorrect < 1249942099 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww dont worry oklopol < 1249942117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its your incorrectnesses that enrich english < 1249942166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discussing grammar, are you? < 1249942169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most clearly that must be true < 1249942180 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed we are < 1249942187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar you are discussing, mmhmmmmm? < 1249942197 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no oklopol < 1249942201 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again bad yoda talk < 1249942205 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's was correct < 1249942209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey. i just know what you give me < 1249942221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was? < 1249942223 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249942238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i swapped are and you < 1249942244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point was mostly that your VSO sounded stupid in that one < 1249942244 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did that too, but its a question < 1249942249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1249942250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1249942251 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and english has subject-auxiliary inversion in questions < 1249942253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mispermuted < 1249942262 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoda's grammar doesn't, afaik, change that < 1249942267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1249942332 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/cse?cx=001269089414569134552%3Aqvjtfauf7ou&ie=UTF-8&q=yoda&sa=Search < 1249942381 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249942385 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249942426 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249942437 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249943289 0 :pikhq__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249943324 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1249943329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see the th-character now < 1249943332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like magix < 1249943351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thorn? < 1249943377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1249943379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1249943446 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249944226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249944619 0 :pikhq__!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249944818 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249945219 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-121.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249945249 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249945831 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1249946042 0 :pikhq__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249946903 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249947718 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249947797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249947812 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249947875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1249948945 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1249949014 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1249949153 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249949318 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249949335 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1249950161 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1249950174 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-117-019.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1249950504 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249950850 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1249951359 0 :amca!n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1249951420 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249951425 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.215.113.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249951960 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249953056 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"." < 1249955246 0 :GregorR-L_!n=gregor@96.57.200.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249955331 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1249955493 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249955767 0 :GregorR-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/pics/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=Assorted%2FGregorInPink.jpg I'm so classy < 1249955782 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homo < 1249955791 0 :GregorR-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you wish < 1249955804 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1249955807 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too femme < 1249955849 0 :GregorR-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, you're more into bears then :P < 1249955893 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more just < 1249955897 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all pink < 1249955980 0 :GregorR-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, all pink isn't my USUAL thing, in fact I only have one pink shirt, one pink tie and one pink hat. I just decided to wear them all together today :P < 1249956008 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :came over a little queer < 1249956015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're all queer here. < 1249956140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L_: Out of curiosity, do any "god hates fags" people come to your university? < 1249956150 0 :GregorR-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, Purdue? < 1249956162 0 :GregorR-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen any, but at the same time it's hardly PSU. < 1249956171 0 :GregorR-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregorR-L < 1249956189 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, it is Indiana :P ) < 1249956201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've come to mine. < 1249956210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, Westboro? < 1249956215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have gay sex in front of them. < 1249956217 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purdue is the only big-ten university without a "queer resource center". < 1249956219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not them specifically. < 1249956223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other, smaller groups. < 1249956226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it anyway. < 1249956241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more gay guys at my school than there are girls at all... < 1249956254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this, though funny-sounding, is not hard to pull off) < 1249956270 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then in terms of maximum utilization of social resources, your choice is clear. < 1249956752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Hahah. < 1249956773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gay rationality! < 1249956779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaytionality. < 1249956973 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which school is this, btw? I forget. < 1249956998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Missouri University of Science and Technology. < 1249957011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so much that it's a gay haven as it is a not-female haven. < 1249957015 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1249957037 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, smart girls are HOT. < 1249957046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1249959387 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Farewell" < 1249959621 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1249960321 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249960331 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1249960446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249962692 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1249963041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, Playstation emulation that doesn't irritate me. < 1249963146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helps having a Playstation controller. < 1249967445 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, gamer < 1249971171 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1249975072 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1249975189 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249975653 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249976313 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1249976315 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1249977599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1249977600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1249978441 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-27.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1249978520 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249979278 0 :waga!n=chatzill@89.47.179.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249979834 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249980479 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1249981202 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-13-209.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249981486 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm working on my obfuscated Pascal BF interpreter < 1249981789 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh i'm stuck lol < 1249981848 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1249981850 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done it < 1249981903 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least < 1249981907 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've thought I've done so < 1249982741 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]++++++++++[>>+>+>++++++[<<+<+++>>>-]<<+<+++>>>-]<<+<+++>>>-]<<+<+++>>>-]<<+<+++>>>-]<<+<+++>>>-]<<<<-][]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] < 1249982743 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wtf < 1249982751 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what my interpreter shows while running this code < 1249982759 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]++++++++++[>>+>+>++++++[<<+<+++>>>-]<<<<-] < 1249982759 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A*$";?@![#>>+<<]>[>>]<<<<[>++<[-]]>.>. < 1249982834 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, i've fixed it < 1249982848 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT it outputs an I < 1249982850 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not an H < 1249982932 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also quine.b gives me weird trash at the end < 1249987256 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1249988008 0 :nooga!n=nooga@94.254.159.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1249988173 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1249988513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot, I understood almost half of the introduction of fizzie's thesis presentation < 1249988608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it was in finnish, then you still beat most of us < 1249988641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was in English < 1249988657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN YOU ARE JUST STUPID < 1249988721 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1249988744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least I know what fizzie looks like now < 1249988754 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can stalk him around the campus < 1249988761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1249989277 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1249989293 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i(s the thesis) < 1249989312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly nowhere < 1249989333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it is quite conceivable that he didn't manage to finish it ;D < 1249989336 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4what is it about? < 1249989344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Methods for Spectral Envelope Estimation in Noise Robust Speech Recognition" < 1249989353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sh < 1249989362 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate signals < 1249989431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no longer will the computer be able to say "I can't hear you, la la la la" < 1249989881 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :longer computer will say you be able to hear the la la la la, no i can't < 1249990187 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1249990197 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regexps look so eso < 1249990226 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : text.gsub!(/\/\/.*$/," ") < 1249990226 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : text.gsub!(/\/\*.*?\*\//m," ") < 1249990227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : text.gsub!(/^\s*(#\s*(.*\\\n)*.*$)/," ") < 1249990229 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cla = text.scan(/^\s*(class|struct)\s+(\w+)(?:\s*:\s*(protected|public|private)?\s*(\w+))?/) < 1249991321 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1249991528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1249991748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Gah internet molasses!" < 1249996162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know what Deewiant looks like, though I guess I can sort of eliminate, given that I knew most of the other people there. < 1249996169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand I'm terrible at remembering faces. < 1249996190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should stamp ID numbers over the faces of everyone I ought to know. < 1249996838 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1249996841 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1249996961 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@rogue.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1249997078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root is so rude, always rebooting machines when you least expect it < 1249997106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was next to the guy next to you < 1249997188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's what I thought. I think. I probably won't recognize you the next time I see you, so maybe it doesn't matter that much. < 1249997425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1249997581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also went and wrote that "kypsyysnäyte" thing. < 1249997602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lit. translated, "ripeness sample". < 1249997886 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ilold < 1249997954 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys chat on the same # for years, they go to the same univeristy and they don't bother to meet irl < 1249997970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the thesis is nowhere yet, though I think we commonly put those to the web after they've been graded and accepted. < 1249997989 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "we" here < 1249997999 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The authors, right? < 1249998007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. the school doesn't do that < 1249998039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The school doesn't, yes. I just think at least some of the people in the lab have theirs on their personal pages. < 1249998059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, people do that. < 1249998073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently the thesis is in the hands of the professor for final comments before the bind-to-book part. < 1249998095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "books". Should figure out how many copies I need, actually. < 1249998122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Methods for Spectral Envelope Estimation in Noise Robust Speech Recognition" <<< Deewiant: did you understand the spectral envelope estimation half or the noise robust speech recognition half? < 1249998139 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither < 1249998162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understood half of the "speech recognition" fifth < 1249998174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was maybe about half of the introduction < 1249998242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i thought you knew everything < 1249998255 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The presentation wasn't really very polished, I just took the conference thing (which didn't really have much of a speech recognition introduction; being the Nth presentation in a speech recognition conference, I thought people might be a bit bored of it) and quickly slapped something on, without practicing how to utter it. < 1249998287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could do a more followable speech recognition presentation, but that thesis-lecture is officially just 20 minutes and I had to fit the whole thesis in it too. < 1249998326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The slide-PDF had 28 pages already, that's not in the suggested range for a 20 minute show. < 1249998331 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's of course not the point < 1249998339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's spectral envelope estimation? something like guessing what spectum is enough for getting all the relevant frequencies? < 1249998341 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you spent a bit more than 20 minutes anyway < 1249998351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I hear most people do. < 1249998374 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not very strict about it, of course < 1249998459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/speechspec.png <-- that's a speech spectrum and an envelope estimate. < 1249998482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let me give it an understanding < 1249998489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's an envelope < 1249998497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from something you put paper in < 1249998524 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you the envelop the fft < 1249998530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"b. Electr. Engineering. A curve formed by joining the successive peaks of a graph of an oscillation, esp. a modulated wave." < 1249998541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's close to the sense. < 1249998552 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well that's pretty obvious from the pic < 1249998561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I meant to ask what it's good for < 1249998636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for speech that comb-like peaky structure comes from the excitation source, which looks like a pulse train, while the shape of the envelope comes from the resonances in the vocal tract. < 1249998691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since what distinguishes the meaningful sounds is the vocal tract part (the comb structure is pretty much just about the speaking pitch and prosody and so on) it makes sense to use a nice envelope estimate instead of the spectrum itself. < 1249998725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, cool < 1249998749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, but what exactly is the excitation source? < 1249998784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to talk physics, it's the periodic airflow through the glottis. < 1249998859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically what happens @ vocal chords < 1249998993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1249999019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People have been modeling the glottal pulse shape, too, it's a sort of a half-sine hump. < 1249999059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would a half-sine hump result in a pulsey fft? < 1249999150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a periodic sequence of humps, yes. Though the peaks aren't then impulses, like they would be for the idealized impulse-train-excitation case. < 1249999456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the peaks aren't then impulses"? < 1249999509 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean they are not just single points, but wider? < 1249999744 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. In the very horribly much idealized model the excitation source is an impulse train, the vocal tract is an all-pole filter, and the resulting spectrum is a pure line spectrum, with just single points at the harmonic frequencies, with the envelope shape determined by the vocal tract filter. < 1249999751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course that's not at all how it works. < 1249999833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One glottal pulse approximation I've seen looks like g[n] = { 1/2*(1-cos(pi*n/N1)), 0 <= n < N1; cos(pi*(n-N1)/(2*N2)), N1 <= n <= N1+N2; 0 elsewhere }. I guess I could FFT a couple of those to see what the spectrum looks like. < 1250000376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/train.png -> http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/spec.png (Please don't ask me to explain the slope.) < 1250000475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :train is that g[n] thing right? < 1250000498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1250000507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just making sure < 1250000525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spec is the log-scale (dB in the Y axis, actually) magnitude spectrum. < 1250000614 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the idealized impulse train look like, unfft'd? < 1250000773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait i think i confused a few terms in what you said earlier < 1250000788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm quite slow at getting into things < 1250000825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An impulse train looks like, well, the same except for impulses. Something like g[n] = { 1 if n = 0 (mod T0); 0 elsewhere } with a suitable period T0 for the fundamental frequency you want. < 1250000853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so that g[n] I gave was just the shape of one of the humps. < 1250000907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was there some name for the two realms, fft'd and unfft'd sound kinda stupid. < 1250000931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time and spectral domains. < 1250000959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm only familiar with the technical details of dft, i'm assuming the terms wouldn't quite mix < 1250000961 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1250000962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the other way around. < 1250000975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, ofc < 1250001054 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1250001068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i guess i was asking what the ideal impulse train looks like in spectral domain, you may have told me already < 1250001149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that even well-defined < 1250001177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should look like an impulse train in the spectral domain too, though with the T0 distance replaced with the corresponding F0. At least that's how it's been talked about. < 1250001178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it might be the limit of some infinite spectrum, but maybe i'll wait for the answer < 1250001188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1250001198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a simple relation? < 1250001204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like F0 = 1/T0 < 1250001209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Like that. < 1250001217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1250001231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the peaks have a defined value, actually. < 1250001247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should that obvious? < 1250001249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1250001252 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F0 = 1/T0 < 1250001271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined height, I mean. < 1250001283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1250001287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a really periodic, infinite sequence, I guess the height could be infinite. But speech people are horrible mathematicians and don't care about that sort of stuff. < 1250001305 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i can imagine < 1250001336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check the Rabiner book, he's usually quite formal. < 1250001362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can be precise without being formal < 1250001383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The single good thing about thesis work is that I have (temporarily, from the library) a pile of the five classical speech textbooks for looking up "trivial" common-knowledge sort of things from. < 1250001386 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm not sure what the point of saying that was < 1250001451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't read speech literature < 1250001452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1250001477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't justifiticated buying the books myself, no. < 1250001554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the DTFT of the signal does not theoretically speaking exist; the mathematical treatment of the book uses the "engineering DTFT". < 1250001655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, obviously it doesn't exist, since you have to have $\sum_{-\infty}^\infty \left| x(n) \right| < \infty$ if you want $x(n)$ to have a DTFT. < 1250001741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what left and right do in tex < 1250001752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some kinda alignment? < 1250001775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\left| x(n) \right|" is just a way to say "| x(n) |" so that TeX knows the |s pair up around x(n), and can spacify them sensibly. < 1250001791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can't dtft an infinitely occurring pulse? < 1250001797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1250001843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i completely ignored | as a random tex character, but i now realize i've finally reverse-engineered the basic syntax and that doesn't fit it < 1250001870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1250001885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i should probably ask what a dtft is :P < 1250001954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X(w) = infinite-sum-with-n of x(n) e^{-jwn}, where w wants to be the omega character when it grows up, j's the good old imaginary unit, and e's e. < 1250002014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the DTFT; I guess it doesn't converge very often. < 1250002098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and x(n) is continuous and infinite and all that fluff. < 1250002182 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, mister omega? in dft omega is a primitive n'th root of unity, but i don't know what it is here < 1250002334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dft being discrete fourier transform, not sure it's obvious you know i mean tht < 1250002337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1250002375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; the DFT is much nicer for an engineer, since it's just finite-length sequences and everything's so discrete. < 1250002468 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X(w) = infinite-sum-with-n of x(n) e^{-jwn} <<< ah misread this as X(n), i now realize that doesn't even make sense < 1250002540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's discrete-time fourier transform; so this is discrete already < 1250002554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The n time step is discrete. < 1250002563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The values of the signal are continuous, though. < 1250002563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1250002631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i think i see how that works now < 1250002788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, phone < 1250002790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, since the DTFT tends to not exist, they use this "engineering DTFT" built out of Fourier series coefficients and Dirac delta functions, so you get infinite energy at the harmonic frequencies but the integral over the spectrum is still finite. < 1250002803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that's a common approach or just a peculiarity of this book. < 1250002812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Signal processing is not my strongest subjects, ironically. < 1250002838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna say something, but i kinda lost my train of thought < 1250002891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drummer called to say he can't come to play metal with us, because he has to attend church < 1250002953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even going to ask for details < 1250002966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is going to BURN the church, maybe. < 1250002998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to know signal processing, but that doesn't really fit my current degree < 1250003014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1250003045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not sure it's so much church, iltahartaus, however that translates, or whatever that means, at the army < 1250003054 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@129.33.193.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1250003095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atheists don't have to attend, but they don't have the evening free either < 1250003101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would be unfair < 1250003117 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf conversation did I just step into? < 1250003135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about signal processing < 1250003148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngraargh. I have this tracking number for this mail package, and it seems they've decided to Screw Up(tm) with it. < 1250003191 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tlking about it with fizzie, as you can clearly see < 1250003196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tracking system says "An irregularity has been observed in the processing of the package, delivery may be delayed". < 1250003316 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1250003766 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if there's a programming system that runs ON iphone < 1250003790 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet making it would violate the AUP in some stupid way :P < 1250003800 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably yes < 1250003846 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had cool spreadsheet with usable lisp on my symbian phone < 1250003861 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was pain to write something with phone's keyboard < 1250003867 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why a spreadsheet would have lisp built in ... < 1250003950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spreadsheet program is a mode in emacs? < 1250003985 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know but it was nice < 1250004002 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :formulas were written in lisp < 1250004085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Python on iPhone actually rather good", Nov 2008, http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/686098.html < 1250004124 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it's python interpreter that runs programs written for iphone < 1250004127 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on iphone < 1250004219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? No. "Install iPhone/Python (examples, the hello world is a PyObjC call into the iPhone API to load and scroll the contacts list in the phone)" < 1250004220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1250004270 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" probably it's python interpreter that runs programs written for iphone" this makes NO SENSE < 1250004290 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1250004384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: he means it only runs programs that are written with the iphone in mind < 1250004400 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1250004411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was just joking, that makes no sense < 1250004414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1250004422 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh < 1250004424 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1250004431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh, well good. < 1250004480 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1250004506 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that python is probably a runtime environment for python programs that runs on iphone < 1250004518 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i want is development environment that runs on iphone < 1250004537 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1250004563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it "just runs Python programs", but you only need a text editor to write those python programs, and it's a development environment. < 1250004593 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editing text on iphone sucks < 1250004619 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely someone must have written a BF interpreter for the iPhone? < 1250004620 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine simpler, perhaps semi-visual editor for building programs < 1250004641 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And eight buttons instead of lots means easier to hit them < 1250004662 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: something like that, yep < 1250004678 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't mind that it's BF? < 1250004684 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would < 1250004695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ibrainfsck: A native iPhone/iPod touch IDE for the brainfuck programming language." < 1250004708 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IDE" >_O < 1250004710 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, a programming IDE < 1250004737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a GUI domain is made for PSOX, it would be possible to make a Brainfuck IDE in Brainfuck < 1250004750 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut? < 1250004766 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: IDE does not imply GUI. < 1250004793 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: add bf debugger and voila < 1250004810 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, can't one make use of ANSI escapes with BF? < 1250004830 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egg-zactly ... though that just means you'd need a good terminal for iPhone < 1250004842 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuh < 1250004848 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be hard < 1250004859 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iphone keyboard SUCKS!!! amagad! < 1250004873 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?! You mean the commercials LIE?! < 1250004890 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes it does < 1250004901 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of tactile feedback = bad < 1250004919 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there some sort of vibration-feedback thing?-) < 1250004922 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google openpandora < 1250004923 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also we now have a dedicated press relations guy, if you need anything press related please email chip@openpandora.org and he will do his best to make ... \ [13]BLOG - [14]Forums - [15]Developers - [16]Press area < 1250004936 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAY TO NOT GIVE A URL, HACKBOT < 1250004943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If even the iPhone keyboard sucks, I wonder how horrible those non-qwerty Android phones everyone seems to be making are. < 1250004944 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1250004970 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, are they FITALY? < 1250004987 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't mind a Dvorak keyboarded cellphone < 1250004994 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FITALY DAMN IT FITALY < 1250005079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a term they use for touch-screen-only things. < 1250005125 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"various strokes (rather than taps) are used for both shifting case and selecting symbols." < 1250005146 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pie menu style? < 1250005169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a Dasher thing for iPhone. < 1250005237 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.86.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1250005288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Ubuntu in a vm < 1250005455 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dasher is even usable < 1250005478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1250005491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dasher? < 1250005543 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasher < 1250005708 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: dasher is even usable < 1250005708 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it is < 1250005728 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's probably the first time we agreed < 1250005731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I remember seeing that < 1250005851 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.. I think I've seen some input system like that in some DS homebrew < 1250005880 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what ds < 1250005885 0 :olegfink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1250005903 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homebrew for the Nintendo DS < 1250005909 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1250005928 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, not quite like that < 1250005948 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw cool one < 1250005978 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :table with consonants, and when you click on choosen one - a pie menu with vowels appears < 1250006128 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there is a dasher for iphone < 1250006164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the NHS would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." < 1250006182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Correct me if I'm wrong, but... Isn't Stephen Hawking British? < 1250006214 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1250006215 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1250006217 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes he is. < 1250006236 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quoted-guy was confused by his computer's accent ;) < 1250006242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where is that quote from < 1250006243 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he sits in USA? < 1250006250 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: No. < 1250006254 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1250006255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Article on Reddit. < 1250006269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Foiled by DECtalk again! < 1250006272 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i was confused by his computer's accent < 1250006287 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's at the University of Cambridge. < 1250006325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, DECtalk? < 1250006344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's the name of his text-to-speech system. < 1250006361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was, obviously, designed by DEC. < 1250006370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEC sounds so retro < 1250006375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason... < 1250006376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1250006395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it's on a small, battery-powered UNIX system in his wheelchair. < 1250006406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1250006415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does he interact with it I wonder < 1250006477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't recall. < 1250006550 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1250006551 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1250007015 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1250007517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread that as "in some DS hebrew", thought it to be some sort of Hebrew-localized input thing. < 1250007670 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1250007687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/movies/EyeDasher.4800.mpg < 1250007703 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that's non-qwerty can't be that bad < 1250007749 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-150-131.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1250008251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:00] AnMaster: pikhq, how does he interact with it I wonder < 1250008252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :throat vibrations < 1250008270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1250008276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be kind of painful < 1250008284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just slow < 1250008289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all his interviews are scripted < 1250008290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1250008296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh? < 1250008297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Q&A sessions he takes >20m to say a line < 1250008309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like < 1250008314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : question? < 1250008320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :