< 1252800005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, okay < 1252800005 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252800014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't run postinstall scripts and the tar invocation must be failing. < 1252800037 0 :pedm!n=pedm@pool-72-93-92-210.bstnma.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252800124 0 :pedm!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252800160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252800168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1252800173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No use hacking this script up further < 1252800180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to rewrite it in a way I can understand < 1252800193 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252800230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what straca is and what is so negative about it
< 1252801210 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252801210 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252801213 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252801939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/sourceware.org/pub/cygwin/setup.ini < 1252801944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks pretty simple < 1252801998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been a while since I coded something "solid" in Python; at least I'm good at architecture. < 1252802184 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252802627 0 :futurestack!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"outta here" < 1252802781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No one had done it before (and it is something useful), so that qualifies as "impossible" to me." < 1252802795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am currently doing the impossible by living one second longer than anyone else before this second. < 1252803207 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252803207 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252803210 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252803347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1252803376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how autoconf etc distinguishes function from var? < 1252803378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, < 1252803387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { (void) symbol; return 0; } < 1252803394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a pretty good way to check if a symbol exists < 1252803403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about function/not function? < 1252803691 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252803691 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252803696 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252804258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: See config.log; it contains the source code for the checks. < 1252804272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was afraid you'd say that. < 1252804280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrmm. Actually, it does that if the check fails. < 1252804283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind. < 1252804289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1252804366 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252804388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears to be doing: int main () { return symbol(); ; return 0; } // and checking for compile errors. < 1252804582 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252804584 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252804603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders porting ghc to cygwin
< 1252804612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I can't try out darcs that integrates with cygwin < 1252804662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, there's a Cygwin 1.7 on the way < 1252804671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY FUCK YOU CAN SEARCH PACKAGES IN SETUP.EXE < 1252804674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All else is basically forgiven. < 1252804725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still stuck on bash 3, why am I surprised < 1252804799 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252804974 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252804974 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252805056 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252805056 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252805059 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252805347 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252805350 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252805953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how to run ./configure without a shell :-P
< 1252806108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poorly. < 1252806197 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252806197 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252806200 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252806266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you think they'll add support for windows batch? can't be worse than ksh -3.4.vendor2.release7.quirkversion.warezpatch < 1252806301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252806323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no but seriously, I think I'll bootstrap my crazy endeavor to compile zsh on stock Windows with msys bash < 1252806360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you hear that < 1252806362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile zsh < 1252806364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows < 1252806368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no compatibility layers < 1252806417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am more insane than a flock of fish < 1252806420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a shoal of cows < 1252806436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shoal of MOTHERFUCKING cows. < 1252806521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course now i have to persuade configure that that isn't msys behind the curtain < 1252806604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon it'll hit fork < 1252806607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and die horribly < 1252806678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it just wants curses right now. < 1252806716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grabs pdcurses
< 1252806962 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.75.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252806976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1252806978 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1252806979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252806994 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.75.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252807089 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252807089 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252807092 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252807440 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252807440 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252807443 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252807463 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if graphviz has been ported to a different programming language (than C)? < 1252807474 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252807857 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1252808442 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252808442 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252808447 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252808654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252808874 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252808901 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252809127 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252810196 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252810196 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252810199 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252810530 0 :encoded!n=encoded@reactos/tester/encoded JOIN :#esoteric < 1252810542 0 :encoded!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252811496 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252811929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252812543 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252815013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252815080 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252815639 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252815712 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252816770 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252819743 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252819973 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252820620 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Op. 10 I created two betas ... with Op11, I have a "work in progress preview" :P http://codu.org/music/Op11/GRegor-op11-wipp-1.ogg < 1252820842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh, Gregor opus. < 1252821134 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252821491 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252821799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252822745 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252822757 0 :lifthrasiir!i=Sv8iPdeQ@143.248.133.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252824216 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood___ < 1252828799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252828800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252829167 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252830865 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252831975 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252833552 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252833718 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252833725 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252834820 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252838339 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252839084 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-198.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252839426 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-30-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252840152 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252840356 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252840625 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252841237 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252842132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was the last time you used octal numbers? And in what language? < 1252842598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot recall
< 1252842622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 assembler, for a 'open' file-creation mode. It's oh-so-natural in that context. < 1252842655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm, to be precise; surprisingly enough it didn't interpret "0123" as octal, wanted a "0o" prefix there. < 1252842686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm does that mean chmod counts as a use? although i really use a+x style < 1252842761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure chmod counts as a programming language. < 1252842795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall last not-related-to-file-modes use of octal numbers, though. < 1252842854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guesses there probably was some math puzzle involved, rather than actual programming (except to solve the puzzle)
< 1252842863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just me < 1252842941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Share prices are more attuned to magic and many would visit regularly to pray." Today's mezzacotta seems related to the current crisis somehow... < 1252843057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252843088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc :D < 1252843150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 18.77 parsecs in light years < 1252843153 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18.77 Parsecs = 61.2209126 light years < 1252843490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting poll variation < 1252843697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He blings an army of crones to our cause" XD < 1252844259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252846767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know unicode code point of = but with three lines? < 1252846789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't able to find it after several minutes of searching < 1252847431 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-20-254.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252847780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+2261. < 1252847787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's right there in the mathematical operators block. < 1252847819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :≡, "identical to". < 1252847932 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-20-254.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252848344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1252848611 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252849102 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252850486 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252852103 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1252852831 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252853517 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252853649 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252854076 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92.236.187.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252854181 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-30-86.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252854958 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252855236 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252856698 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252861500 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252861834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252862057 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252862108 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252862422 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252863377 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252863498 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252863541 0 :atrapado!n=roper@19.55.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252864223 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252864320 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252864366 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252865495 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:58:24 i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly < 1252865542 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like that; I could get back at the people who made the .NET MenuStrip and ToolStrip controls, which emulate that horrible "Office-style" look < 1252865557 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that is so, I'll have to start faking native widgets < 1252865560 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a widget? < 1252865582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a gadget, except more widdly. < 1252865623 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drawing real-looking menus on Vista+ isn't _that_ hard; I've done it. < 1252866959 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252867021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly < 1252867040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realize that would lead some people to make a lot of them, right? < 1252867040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they only try to fake native widgets once/ < 1252867110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If that is so, I'll have to start faking native widgets < 1252867147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP STEALING MY JOKES < 1252867152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN ADVANCE < 1252867214 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1252867214 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252867348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.verb2verbe.com/conjugation/english-verb/snore.aspx <-- FAIL < 1252867365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1252867412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was trying to look up if snore was a strong verb i didn't know about since someone on the iwc forum inflected it as such) < 1252867463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, well, that thing in the link was not among the options < 1252867644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it seems to be a specific error for that word, not for other verbs ending in e < 1252867696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you disobey, you will be snoreed. < 1252869131 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252869929 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252872243 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252872601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 01:58:24 i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly <-- could I have one for "uses boost"? < 1252872639 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252872668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, what? libboost is a absolutely horrible pile of bloat and anti-design-patterns < 1252872679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like taking the worst of C++ and making it even worse < 1252872681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He uses boost in Stinkhorn :-P < 1252872692 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do agree, though :P < 1252872704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the worst part is that there is always one game or one program that you need that uses libbost < 1252872706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boost* < 1252872711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't avoid installing it < 1252872751 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It don't actually use the libraries, though, just the headers, because boost takes hours to build < 1252872757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often you end up needing a "newer than in package repo" version too, so you have to install the -dev packages for it as well (this only apply to binary distros obviously) < 1252872769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, I thought C++ already did? < 1252872819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, why the hell are you using the libboost headers though? < 1252872876 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things like shared_pointer, noncopyable, pool_allocator < 1252872930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, what are they for? < 1252872979 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smart pointer class, make class noncopyable and better allocator if one has large number of objects for the same class. < 1252872990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, oh and writing a pool allocator that allocated fixed sized chunks from large pools allocated with malloc was a 10 minute job in C. And about 40 lines of code. < 1252873019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yours probably isn't quite as ultra-optimized as the one in Boost, though. < 1252873035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is in cfunge... < 1252873035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1252873052 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and lexical_cast, which is ugly and I should probably remove < 1252873060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, lexical cast? < 1252873062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1252873094 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically ToString and FromString that uses string streams < 1252873108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, smart pointers? Is that basically transparent ref count? < 1252873121 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the data type can be written to an ostream, you can convert it to a string, and the same for istream. < 1252873128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or since it is C++, I bet it isn't very transparent in practise < 1252873166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is stinkhorn on the mycology results page? < 1252873199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252873232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, stinkhorn sounds like it uses all the worst features of C++ < 1252873236 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D < 1252873247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, why... < 1252873255 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask me 3 years ago < 1252873267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, also what is the point of making a class non-copyable? < 1252873278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just don't do it if you don't want to < 1252873289 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that simple in C++. < 1252873300 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It manages resources that don't make sense when copied? < 1252873322 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ makes temporary copies of objects all over the place if you're not careful, for one < 1252873325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well ok, why copy it then? can't you keep track of what you are doing yourself? < 1252873329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, oh right that < 1252873336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it is. < 1252873470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw how could boost's pool allocator be more optimised? < 1252873486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better algorithm? if so, what one? < 1252873495 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, and that's precisely why I'd use theirs instead of one of my own. < 1252873502 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should design a language with prepositions at some point. < 1252873514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, sounds nice < 1252873533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even C has "for" < 1252873535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1252873551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think Warrigal meant like "assign that to it" < 1252873575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1252873591 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that" and "it" are both pronouns, not prepositions. < 1252873604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed < 1252873606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252873617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language with pronouns would be nice < 1252873636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and applescript already has prepositions iirc < 1252873712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D has as many as "in", "for", and "with"! < 1252873758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell only has "in" and "of"... maybe I should re-evaluate my preferred language < 1252873770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about "while" < 1252873785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a preposition? < 1252873789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, what is it? < 1252873806 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl1' with (>>) map (.) forkIO with hello onto names < 1252873807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a conjunction, in the typical use. < 1252873825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it can be a noun ("a while ago") but is it a noun in "while you are doing that, ..." < 1252873833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1252873862 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't know what part of speech it is in the subordinate clause "while you are doing that". < 1252873869 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjunction? Adverb? < 1252873877 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjunct-o-verb(TM)? < 1252873892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjunction. < 1252873918 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do that with other conjunctions. And there's a lot you can do with other conjunctions that you can't do with this. < 1252873926 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess new parts of speech are long overdue. < 1252873950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you are doing that", "because you are doing that", etc... < 1252873966 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or you are doing that". < 1252873987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, presumably there are subclasses among the conjunctions. < 1252873990 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am eating some soup while a sandwich." < 1252873995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1252874022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, what word would work there? < 1252874026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"with"? < 1252874030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is a preposition right? < 1252874036 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1252874038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep: "while" is a subordinating conjunction, "or" is a coordinating conjunction << http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_conjunction < 1252874046 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or" would work there. < 1252874050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252874057 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "or" is a conjunction. < 1252874064 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A coordinating one, I see. < 1252874137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the word "maybe" < 1252874142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what class that is < 1252874148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adverb. < 1252874152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252874209 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a thorough adverb. < 1252874214 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the thoroughest. < 1252874228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, ? < 1252874398 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1252874739 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252875199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suggest you update your mycology results page < 1252875210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you do < 1252875211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it says cfunge doesn't implement NCRS < 1252875217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it does since months < 1252875252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it says cfunge 0.3.3 doesn't implement NCRS, which remains true < 1252875264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1252876291 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252876608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252876814 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252876842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hird of the sheeple < 1252876853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:42:12 when was the last time you used octal numbers? And in what language? < 1252876854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday < 1252876857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod < 1252876876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doubtful that is a programming language < 1252876887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vus deja
< 1252876890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a language at all < 1252876892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1252876899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Unix command that takes some input and a description of what to do of it and then outputs output accordingly. < 1252876911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like awk, sed, or find. < 1252876917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or cat? < 1252876922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or ls? < 1252876927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat does not take a description of what to do with the input < 1252876928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly even cd < 1252876931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls, yes < 1252876933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd, no < 1252876937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cat sure do < 1252876939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat -e < 1252876941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1252876950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gno, it doesn't. < 1252876952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that replaces control codes with ^F < 1252876958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1252876962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. < 1252876964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcat dose. < 1252876969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does < 1252876977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And GNU is Not Unix in more than implementation./ < 1252876982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1252876991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnaturally. < 1252876993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about cat -u then? < 1252876998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, kreally? < 1252877001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: posixcrap. < 1252877012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? < 1252877014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gnearly so < 1252877029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -u is not unix, -u is a crappy hack < 1252877030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, knever! < 1252877051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cat came back from Berkeley waving flags" --Rob Pike < 1252877058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -u is POSIX. SuS is a superset of POSIX. < 1252877071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither follow the unix philosophy. < 1252877082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and who is Rob Pike? < 1252877082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix is older than the bullshit pile known as POSIX. < 1252877085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252877095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are disqualified from EVER speaking about what is Unixy or not. < 1252877114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you know who Rob Pike is? < 1252877114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robe Pike, member of the original Unix team. < 1252877116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rob < 1252877119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252877122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1252877127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is perfectly normal < 1252877129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523 isn't arguing based on historical grounds what is unixy or not < 1252877131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tends not to care about the names of programmers
< 1252877134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are < 1252877140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I'm not. You are < 1252877144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252877148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course unix existed before POSIX < 1252877164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these days, POSIX is very important in defining what *nix is < 1252877200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i never answered your idiotic question. < 1252877230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, chmod is not a programming language still < 1252877256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realise there is a chmod system call, retard? < 1252877264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and? < 1252877267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: now you say that, you make me want to try to make chmod into a programming language < 1252877270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has that got to do with it < 1252877273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I seriously doubt it has any power at all < 1252877279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.... maybe if you had a maze of symlinks < 1252877280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: THAT TAKES AN OCTAL NUMBER AS A PARAMETER? < 1252877284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, around deadfish? < 1252877292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something that iterated over a directory structure, running all the executable things there < 1252877303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: THAT TAKES AN OCTAL NUMBER AS A PARAMETER? <-- yes < 1252877308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I suspect even like that, chmod will be less powerful than Deadfish < 1252877312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int chmod(const char *path, mode_t mode); < 1252877321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where mode_t is in fact an integer < 1252877334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and you don't see how this is relevant? < 1252877343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it is a thin wrapper for the system call < 1252877348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are your neurons actually firing, AnMaster < 1252877350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is, for example, cd < 1252877352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been paying attention; someone summarise the arguments? < 1252877366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while ls does a bit more work, with formatting and such < 1252877367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AnMaster is dense, I'm not < 1252877376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is a condensed version of the opposite summary AnMaster will give you) < 1252877389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm still waiting for ehird to get to the point < 1252877417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the issue seems to be that in " when was the last time you used octal numbers? And in what language?", ehird's answer to the first question means there's no really sensible answer to the second < 1252877417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is it more like a programming language than, cd or cat < 1252877425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, there is < 1252877428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that the chmod call was from the commandline, rather than, say, from C or Perl < 1252877435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take, for example, bash < 1252877440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod 777 file < 1252877442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, bash would be another possibility < 1252877450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just as valid a programming statement as chmod(file, 0o777) < 1252877453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever prefix < 1252877454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1252877463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that answer is valid < 1252877474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, using it in chmod(1) absolutely counts as a valid reason to use it in a programming language, especially as you can use it in bash < 1252877476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my point < 1252877476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... philosophical question: would you consider typical Makefiles to be programs? < 1252877476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but chmod itself is no programming language < 1252877480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1252877484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the Make language < 1252877484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is what ehird claimed < 1252877486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to ones designed specifically for programming < 1252877488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is declarative < 1252877493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to think yes, too < 1252877494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also has really weird semantics < 1252877511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't at least gnu make TC? < 1252877511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is make TC, by the way? < 1252877523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure all makes are TC. < 1252877524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no for traditional make (probably due to lack of storage), yes for GNU make < 1252877529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless $(shell ) is some gnu-only thing < 1252877535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it probably is < 1252877553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think traditional make would try to substitute the value of a variable called ( in there < 1252877559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure < 1252877561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no. < 1252877563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make's quoting rules are annoying < 1252877567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do $(foo) for vars in make, always. < 1252877571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a gnuism, that's a makeism. < 1252877580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1252877582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1252877584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting confuse < 1252877584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from things like $@ < 1252877585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*confused < 1252877589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am disappoint. < 1252877590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, time to go home < 1252877595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252877695 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebGL... Oh great. Obnoxious websites, making previously non-security-sensitive code (majority of 3D "driver" runs inside the application) remotely scriptable, etc... < 1252877742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely, we should stop designing technologies immediately if it turns out they can be used to be obnoxious in any way < 1252877754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252877778 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That latter (non-security-sensitive -> remotely scriptable) might be actually worse... < 1252877796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By driver do you mean your system's? < 1252877805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, any specific security issue? < 1252877806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because running that in the browser is bizarre < 1252877863 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No specific issue, but taking code that previously was not security sensitive and then making it remotely scriptable triggers my hinky detector.... < 1252877877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What code? < 1252877890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a large chuck of the opengl driver runs in libGL.so iirc. Which is inside the browser. The kernel/X bit of the driver is mostly talking to hardware and making sure more than one opengl app works side by side nicely. < 1252877900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1252877906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect libGL.so to be quite solid. < 1252877909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is all IIRC. Note that < 1252877920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't figure out how it'd be a security flaw. < 1252877944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway keeping most stuff out of kernel is good for security (obviously) < 1252877949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same for X < 1252877973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since X runs as root for hardware access (though that is starting to change) < 1252877994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is a shitpile, no point patching it up. It's insecure by design. < 1252877999 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If code is not security sensitive, do you code very carefully to avoid buffer overflows (and even coding "very carefully" often isn't enough)? < 1252878007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and libGL.so = solid? < 1252878013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1252878021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Relatively, compared to the rest of the system. < 1252878023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least not for nvidia libGL. I can say that much < 1252878030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: In a driver running in a shitload of programs? Yah, I do. < 1252878097 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Normal drivers are usually security-sensitive. libGL.so isn't. < 1252878111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Because it's used only in vidya gaems or something? < 1252878118 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until something (like WebGL) makes it remotely scriptable... < 1252878150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See ^ < 1252878154 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it runs inside memory space of process using it and doesn't accept external untrusted input. < 1252878194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, most of the stuff libGL does is keeping state, consider how you do opengl programming ehird... < 1252878243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course, translating it in some way when you finished adding polygons, and then sending it to X server) < 1252878258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as much of a security hole as anything else. < 1252878270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it wasn't before. that was the point. < 1252878272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By your argument, we shouldn't add new features to the browser: they're not coded super-carefully < 1252878278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@Ilari, not AnMaster) < 1252878286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is a straw man on what Ilari said. < 1252878289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not < 1252878293 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, probably sending the polygon data directly to graphics card (maybe signaling kernel to DMA the whole buffer). < 1252878294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it is < 1252878299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn what "strawman" is, it's the exact same argument he used < 1252878313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, it probably goes through X using shm < 1252878334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it isn't exactly the argument he used < 1252878354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assertion match! Woohoo < 1252878365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it was about when it exposes hardware access, not new features in general < 1252878367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite different < 1252878371 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Browser (or at least many parts of it) is security-sensitive. < 1252878384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding something like canvas is quite different than canvas3d < 1252878401 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Especially the javascript interpretter. And look at its security track record... < 1252878425 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Non-security-sensitive code would probably be much much worse if exposed to scripting... < 1252878440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: uh, the js interpreter is way way less solid than libgl... < 1252878523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, libgl hasn't been the target of exploits so far really. Because it tends to be hard to get at from a browser, unless you already used some exploit. And no server software is likely to have it loaded. < 1252878553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that "less solid" doesn't mean much < 1252878554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude. Ilari is arguing that the JS interpreter is more solidly-coded than libgl. < 1252878559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot entertain such insanity. < 1252878573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JS interpreter in all browsers I know of gives no eye to security. < 1252878575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*give < 1252878579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interpreters < 1252878580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm arguing that the js interpreter has been the target of a lot more exploiting attempts than libgl < 1252878611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is like saying "mac os 9 is very secure, there are only around 15 viruses for it, compared to lots for windows 98" < 1252878622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even windows xp or such < 1252878624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are you arguing for or against Ilari? I can only construe that as against < 1252878630 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If it didn't give any eye to security, attackers would *walk* all over it. < 1252878637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: they do < 1252878673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, neither < 1252878691 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Its quite insecure in practice, but attackers don't really walk all over it. < 1252878705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal... didn't say anything. < 1252878711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed... < 1252878712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody starting with a W said anything :P < 1252878721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, w is next to e in qwerty. < 1252878725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. < 1252878735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Warrigal is the first alphabetical completion. < 1252878737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STILL. < 1252878737 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops... :-/ < 1252878749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252878753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ilari has a point here < 1252878771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that libgl hasn't been something available to exploit before < 1252878788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the js interpreter always is there < 1252878816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpng is another one that has been targeted. Same for libjpeg and so on < 1252878858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but libgl has just not been something that was ever loaded into any of the apps you would target (server software, browsers, email clients, ...) < 1252878890 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all exploits using JS are in javascript interpretter itself. It can also assist in exploiting other bugs... But those are still in security-sensitive parts. < 1252878911 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpng, libjpeg, libz, all secuirty sensitive... < 1252878932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thus liubgl is less carefully reviewed by both good and bad guys for security issues than something that is easier to get at < 1252878952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yes and those have been quite well reviewed, and had a number of CVEs < 1252878968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but libgl had no CVE afaik < 1252879031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also libgl bugs are common. but so far, the worst that led to was misrendering, or in worst case, segfault < 1252879036 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252879049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would not call libgl solid < 1252879050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1252879059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more solid than a JS impl. < 1252879061 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if some piece of code is written in language where buffer overflows are possible (without exploiting the runtime), don't use extraordinary measures to be buffer-overflow-free, function in security-sensitive function and don't have CVEs, then probably they haven't been audited throughly enough. < 1252879062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the v1 iPhone OS was jailbroken with a hole in... libjpeg? Or libtiff or something. < 1252879101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You went to jailbreakme.com and it showed an image; it had the invalid image/404 icon on it, but your phone froze, a progress bar came up, and jailbreaked it. < 1252879105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*jailbroke < 1252879107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and there is more than one libGL. My laptop and desktop use different ones < 1252879118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic open source one, and nvidia one < 1252879164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the point you are trying to make here? it seems you are arguing for Ilari now. < 1252879175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just commenting. < 1252879198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run browser as a different user account < 1252879202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI < 1252879210 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, that diversity probably doesn't protect that much, because attack doesn't need to commit on one... And there are probably vendor strings available anyhow... < 1252879228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it possible to be surprised. You probably run everything as a different user account, in case someone exploits your IRC client. < 1252879235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, my point was that nvidia one is a binary blob < 1252879237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse < 1252879253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One wonders how the fuck you expect people to exploit you browser more than any other piece of software if you disable JS. < 1252879270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you just provided an example < 1252879279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More than any other piece of software" < 1252879286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No part of AnMaster's system apart from his browser displays images. < 1252879288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astonishing. < 1252879290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yes irc is a different acount. < 1252879293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :account* < 1252879296 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: The standard-issue browser doesn't *support* JS. It just doesn't have it disabled, it just plain does not support it. < 1252879311 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*standard-issue browser I use < 1252879316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cool, it's not even possible to satirize you. < 1252879317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what browser is that? < 1252879327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynx, I guess. < 1252879328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or w3m. < 1252879330 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Links2, both in text and graphics mode. < 1252879331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or elinks. < 1252879333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or links. < 1252879341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah < 1252879368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, any CVE for links2? < 1252879385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc(1) has no security flaws, at least as a client. < 1252879395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor does sed if you want prettier pages. < 1252879422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you know nc has no buffer overflow? < 1252879433 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1252879435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sed for that matter < 1252879454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and, the sed script must be reviewed for faulty code < 1252879465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because nc is some 6,000 lines of sharp code. < 1252879469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not buffer overflow, of course, but otherwise bad code < 1252879474 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: AFAIK, there is. < 1252879474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of that is server-based. < 1252879479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, heh < 1252879533 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, there have been security bug reports against Links2. < 1252879536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:10:01 01:58:24 i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly <-- could I have one for "uses boost"? < 1252879538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boost isn't that bad. < 1252879545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For C++. < 1252879560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I think he thought you meant there was a buffer flow in nc < 1252879562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*overflow < 1252879573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:03 ehird, how do you know nc has no buffer overflow? < 1252879575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:04 AnMaster: AFAIK, there is. < 1252879577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:04 Ilari, heh < 1252879581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ilari: I think he thought you meant there was a buffer flow in nc <-- no < 1252879583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252879586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not stupid < 1252879603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently you're telepathic < 1252879636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it followed from the context of highlights < 1252879653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, nobody ever replies to a message not directed at them < 1252879661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No matter how old the highlight it is it must be that < 1252879679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now you are just silly, it was crystal clear from the context what was intended < 1252879700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wasn't, because it was non-obvious to me, for instance. < 1252879710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a message makes sense as a response to the latest highlight, assuming it was intended for that is reasonable. < 1252879718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find that true in practice. < 1252879719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that says more about you, than about the context. < 1252879720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:16:30 Asztal, oh and writing a pool allocator that allocated fixed sized chunks from large pools allocated with malloc was a 10 minute job in C. And about 40 lines of code. < 1252879728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, why not waste 10 minutes to produce non-optimal code < 1252879740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using an optimised ready-made version? inconceivable < 1252879756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well note C vs. C++ for example. < 1252879761 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of one program I wrote. Immediately after receive buffer there was PROT_NONE page. So any overflow of receive buffer is instant SIGSEGV (and the program had no SIGSEGV handler)... < 1252879766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:32 Asztal, stinkhorn sounds like it uses all the worst features of C++ < 1252879773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be defining that as "everything apart from classes" < 1252879812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts ehird on ignore for now, until the nonsense log reading comments finished
< 1252879823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read on, you will see that Asztal agreed for example < 1252879829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea. You might read something you disagree with. < 1252879853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see! Asztal made a statement supporting "stinkhorn using the worst features of C++", therefore my comment about the surrounding context in which you seemed to dislike everything that wasn't classes must therefore be false. < 1252879856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing. < 1252879877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:22:05 Ilari, well ok, why copy it then? can't you keep track of what you are doing yourself? < 1252879885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and that's why AnMaster defines every type in his C program as int < 1252879954 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252880114 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, if you want to see horrible C++ code, look at Firefox code. Not using those "horrible" C++ features results quite horrible code... < 1252880147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XPCOM fuck yeah < 1252880155 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Firefox does it because bad C++ compilers don't support pretty much anything on top of C besides classes... < 1252880156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaking your mind and shit yeah < 1252880196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, firefox does what? < 1252880227 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252880254 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to really test C++ compiler, test wheither it survives some tricky partial template specialization. ICEs and segfaults ahead if the compiler isn't really stable... < 1252880276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox's source code is pretty much entirely awful. < 1252880297 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IIRC, at least some time ago (probably still), it didn't even use exceptions(!). < 1252880299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shudder to think that that's the result of a *rewrite* of it... < 1252880320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, heh < 1252880343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, eh? when was it rewritten? < 1252880355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It was originally Netscape 4. < 1252880365 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still doesn't use them, AFAIK, but they're working on automated rewriting for that < 1252880371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mozilla Project rewrote the entire thing. < 1252880386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah that far back. yeah that was probably horrible. < 1252880425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, rewrote each part one at a time? or started from scratch entirely? < 1252880451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scratch. < 1252880453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Started from scratch. < 1252880460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netscape 3's code was altogether better, from what I hear. < 1252880463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what was the point of having the netscape code there at all? < 1252880468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netscape 4 is massively a result of the second system syndrome. < 1252880469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much. < 1252880475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252880576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the only bit of code that remained was Netscape's "NGLayout" code. NGLayout was Netscape's attempt to rewrite the layout code. < 1252880577 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C++ is not just C with classes. The proper programming style is quite different. < 1252880581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It went on to become XUL. < 1252880682 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why does Firefox seem to be the most bloated and resource-hungry web browser? Konqi even with all of its KDE stuff seems lighter... < 1252880703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's poorly written. < 1252880765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome is double-plus good. < 1252880767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I use konqueror usually, unless some site doesn't work well in it < 1252880779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but uses quite a bit of memory due to the process-per-tab thing. < 1252880795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Midori or something if you want more straight WebKit without that (and also without the fast JS), I guess. < 1252880801 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much dirty memory does Chrome use? < 1252880825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION about:memory
< 1252880834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Define "dirty"; I don't think Windows has a notion of it < 1252880881 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much all OSes with virtual memory have notion of clean and dirty memory... < 1252880916 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dity memory => Pages that have been written and thus can't be discarded from memory (but must be swapped out). < 1252880927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, real memory: private 229,732kiB + shared 5,431kiB = 235,163kiB; nine tabs (one is a popup from another tab and interacts with JS stuff so is in the same process) and one process for the browser. < 1252880939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those pages are all quite heavy. < 1252880952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtual memory: private 335,984kiB, mapped 100,204kiB. < 1252880964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All direct quotes from about:memory. < 1252880967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with formatting. < 1252880983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't measure it in Task Manager, as they're all separate processes. < 1252881020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The values range for each process from around 18MB to 53MB. I guess that the ~3.5MB one is the browser process. < 1252881024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MB, not MiB.) < 1252881033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konqueror's not a stellar web browser, but it manages to be much less bloated than Firefox simply by merit of *making design decisions*. < 1252881033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is a good example of feature creep. < 1252881073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :( < 1252881077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's nice and simple; the only interface apart from a tabbar and back/forwards, refresh, bookmark, the bar (both address and search) and a go button is two icon menus: a document and a wrench. < 1252881093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The document is zoom, copy/paste, encoding, developer tools, etc: page stuff. < 1252881107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wrench is new tab, full screen, about, exit, options, etc: browser stuff. < 1252881128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very well designed. < 1252881196 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its possible to make a process that would have private memory >1GiB (mostly residen't or not), but only few pages (~10KiB) of dirty memory. < 1252881205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's not like the memory usage is correlated with bad performance; having the fastest rendering and JS engine and using native Windows widgets (albeit restyled) it's very fast. < 1252881215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Probably all the tabs I haven't used are paged out. < 1252881222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*add recently after used < 1252881235 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dirty memory is dirty memory even after its paged out. < 1252881246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a memory system guy, so I wouldn't know./ < 1252881248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/ < 1252881386 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have N copies of some process, with everything resident, the memory usage would be union of all clean memory plus sum of all dirty memory. < 1252881406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, chrome does note the shared memory total. < 1252881420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, those totals include about:memory. < 1252881440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 5,250kiB of the 249,710kiB non-virtual memory is shared, according to it. < 1252881450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not a lot. < 1252881504 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on Linux, shared libraries are mapped as private mappings. But all clean (non-dirty) pages are shareable. < 1252881547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows probably just uses shaman magic. < 1252881592 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking qbittorrent process I have running here. Its VMSIZE is ~163M, shared is ~4M. But only ~30M of its memory is dirty. < 1252881597 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252881849 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The private/shared is not accurate measurement of how much memory two processes share and how much they don't. < 1252881873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but I can't give you better without either bloating my system with software to measure it or hacking up something myself, sorry. < 1252881904 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, windows doesn't have equivalent of Linux /proc/X/smaps < 1252882048 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(list of VMAs process has plus memory usage information for each). < 1252882181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, does apt have pluggable backends or do you need only one server format/type/etc, I wonder. < 1252882200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of hacking up my own tool I could write an apt module backed by the cygwin package lists... < 1252882229 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, apt can be pointed to servers on net and to CD-type media... < 1252882240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the backing format it looks at is the same there. < 1252882251 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's designed for dpkg format, yes < 1252882254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write a script to convert it on a server, but "meh". < 1252882260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's the package format, not the package list. < 1252882278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.debs are just tars, and so are decompressed cygwin packages, so I could easily hack that up client-side. < 1252882281 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1252882286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the package list is quite different, I think. < 1252882292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean the package list is a specific format < 1252882305 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the format of the Debian control file < 1252882310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1252882316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apt is quite modular, isn't it? < 1252882341 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1252882345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252882345 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never bothered < 1252882371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it's impractical for me to maintain a mirror of all Cygwin packages in .deb format, but I guess I could handle converting the cygwin.ini. < 1252882401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apt passes its packages off to dpkg, whereas it handles the package lists itself, so I expect exactly the wrong things are modular. Grr. < 1252882420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252882462 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've hacked together my own tool for this before, it's not hard < 1252882479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tool for what? < 1252882486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Converting every single Cygwin package to .deb? < 1252882500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not maintaining and serving thousands of large files on a server . < 1252882502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*server. < 1252882520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for dependency analysis in a client-side package manager < 1252882542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean an apt replacement. < 1252882553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I can write my own tool; that's what I was doing. It will not be as flexible, powerful or comfortable as apt. < 1252882570 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't classify it as a replacement, but yes < 1252882590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just steal the apt source < 1252882593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin IS basically a Linux system, and Linux systems deserve apt. < 1252882608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Of course I'll have to patch apt. I just hope that it's modular, so I can only patch the relevant bits. < 1252882632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be fun, actually. Install dpkg with Cygwin, dpkg -i apt-cygwin.deb, vi /etc/sources/apt.list. < 1252882642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apt-get update, etc.) < 1252883066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to tell Sumatra PDF to reset the settings for this document to my global default? < 1252883175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1252883742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, if there are things like bb4win, are there tiling window managers for windows? < 1252883754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Windows < 1252883797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An assault weapon is a political [1][citation needed] term" <-- err ok. Whatever. < 1252883800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night btw < 1252883807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1252883816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not Finnish, stop that. < 1252883834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1252883834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, you're still here. < 1252883836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1252883839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Told you. < 1252883843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really leaving now < 1252883844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1252883846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-><- < 1252883847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suure. < 1252883997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->@--/\-Z__|\--> < 1252884007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Windows has hover-to-focus built-in. < 1252884268 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252884270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes a little build system for a fake program using sh to configure a config.mk file...
< 1252884274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To see if it works. < 1252884327 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-30-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252884464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252884634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.windowsizer.com/ ;; would be nicer if it was one of the linux ones ported. Still downloading to try out. < 1252884813 0 :fizzie!i=fis@83.150.124.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252884826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, that thing doesn't auatomatically tile. < 1252885051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I'm going to maintain my own set of cygwin .debs < 1252885055 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it any better than 'Show windows side by side' on the task bar then? :| < 1252885070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: It can do more arrangements and has preferred arrangements and stuff. < 1252885086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it certainly doesn't automatically handle resizes... hmm... maybe it doesn't work on >XP < 1252885119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252885124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading the site, almost certainly < 1252885127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that < 1252885132 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that it says "Re-sizing one window automatically resizes adjacent windows", sounds broken < 1252885180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252885182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1252885207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... if a deb is just an .ar with some special stuff and a cygwin package is just a .tar.bz2 with some special stuff, it can't be too hard to convert them < 1252885209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs cygwin 1.7
< 1252885221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and uses the Experimental package versions < 1252885224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still ancient, but eh < 1252885277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure anything is tagged experimental < 1252885851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exp tags everything as "Skip". Fuck that, then. < 1252885873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Cygwin 1.7 "current" is the most up-to-date Cygwin you can get. < 1252885887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now featuring bash 3 plus 0.0.0.1 extra from the past release. < 1252885924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apt is rather easy to patch, I *believe*. < 1252885935 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252885947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's definitely a good idea; Cygwin's setup.exe sucks. < 1252885962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of Cygwin sucks, it's a shoddy system. < 1252885973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1252885985 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252885997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the only alternative, MSYS, is just a really old fork of Cygwin and sucks more (to compile executables for it you need to use a patched gcc 2; nobody bothers to update it because MSYS is supposed to be just a tool with which to run MinGW) < 1252886060 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU bash, version 2.04.0(1)-release (i686-pc-msys) < 1252886068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah. < 1252886087 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252886165 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252886191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially annoying is that no terminal program for Windows has the balls to try and emulate cmd.exe properly, so for calling out to Windows command-line programs you have to use cmd.exe. < 1252886211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and MSYS has one huge advantage over Cygwin: it automatically translates Unix pathnames if you call a Windows tool. < 1252886226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of this $(cygpath -xyzzy ...) bullshit. < 1252886272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't msys deprecated or something? < 1252886290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252886295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But. < 1252886299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:53 But the only alternative, MSYS, is just a really old fork of Cygwin and sucks more (to compile executables for it you need to use a patched gcc 2; nobody bothers to update it because MSYS is supposed to be just a tool with which to run MinGW) < 1252886301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54 GNU bash, version 2.04.0(1)-release (i686-pc-msys) < 1252886303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54 Fuck yeah. < 1252886313 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252886325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still supported and a prominent feature of the site, yes. < 1252886343 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1252886355 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252886384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, I just want bash, coreutils like stuff, vi, rxvt and a few other things.