< 1253837584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rmime-mode has one annoying feature: if you sort your messages, you lost your attachments. I find it great otherwise." <-- *blink* < 1253837608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly it needs a preference "[ ] Don't delete my attachments". < 1253837618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster would probably defend it by saying he changed it :P < 1253837620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1253837649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would be zzo-ish < 1253837681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering how the hell that person I quoted could consider it a feature < 1253837714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a gnomist like i would claim that a lot of existing preferences tend to amount to "don't break" :P < 1253837733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. from a usability perspective; "[ ] Be usable") < 1253837803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, arguing that a KDE user or anything would consider "delete attachments if you sort mail" a feature... is just insane < 1253837814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called hyperbole for the sake of making a point < 1253837825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a very bad analogy < 1253837845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said analogy. and of course you don't think it's a good whatever because you hate the perspective < 1253837858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough i didn't say it for you to appreciate < 1253837870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and this was an emacs mode btw < 1253837896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I do think someone could claim it as a feature < 1253837897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253838260 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't most of attachments virii anyway? :-> < 1253838302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I thought they were usually diffs? ;P < 1253838540 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rewarding myself with a cookie for getting my python to interpret very simple brainfuck... brb < 1253838594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd class that more crumb level :P < 1253838595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a trivial interpreter in python recently. < 1253838613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't get around to input iirc < 1253838625 0 :p0nce!n=ponce@paradisia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253838643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait hm I did < 1253838655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was too slow to run anything non-trivial though < 1253838690 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I've not even studied any of this in my course yet though. And I'm really stupid. This is an achievement for me :-) < 1253838755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't use a "store position" model, rather it parsed it into a recursive list of tuples < 1253838879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: yay stupidity! < 1253838880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1253838889 0 :p0nce!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253838920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try to be nice... or something < 1253838928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uh, he called himself stupid < 1253838935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: Try to be nice! To... yourself. < 1253838970 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true though, before I came to uni I was very, very dumb < 1253838971 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253838978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the nice way would have been "oh I don't think you are stupid, it is like that for most people in the beginning" < 1253838992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1253838999 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look back at code from less than a year ago and just cringe so very hard. < 1253839000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and if the world was filled with people who said shit like that all the time it'd be overwhelmingly boring < 1253839014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh good point indeed < 1253839100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone thinks they were stupid a few years ago fwiw < 1253839252 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but do they think they were stupid enough that they would punch their previous selves in the face should they get the opportunity to meet them? < 1253839269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most people aren't that violent. :P < 1253839492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1578482 in case anyone cares about my more or less crappy bf interpreter in python. Wrote it as part of learning python. It is very suboptimal compared to optimising ones I wrote before in other languages. < 1253839503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night now → < 1253839521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you even gpl something that small. < 1253839522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trivial < 1253839531 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253839591 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'd assume so. < 1253839599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1253839601 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253839609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has enough useless fluff code to count, i guess. < 1253839627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you could GPL either the _parse or _run methods, though. < 1253839647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: hey you're in the uk, cool. < 1253839657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vague geographical buddies" < 1253839667 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :-D < 1253839710 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Newcastle? < 1253839980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: nearby. < 1253839985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, sort of.) < 1253839994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(enough that the geoip robots claim so) < 1253840030 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253840044 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only at York, so it's not too vague... It could be more vague. < 1253840068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Universe" < 1253840201 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Multiverse" < 1253840261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Member of the inverse of the empty set" < 1253840388 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Member of the inverse of every empty set" < 1253840443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: there are multiple? < 1253840463 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, it just sounded "cool" < 1253840467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253840677 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, I still can't get this stupid interpreter to work on anything more complex than a simple bf program < 1253840695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh, repaste it and i'll rewrite it to work or something :P < 1253840711 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253840718 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/RECmiwI5 < 1253840725 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm trying it with the bf program < 1253840730 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+++[>[-]>[-]<<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<-]<<[[>[>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<[-]<<]>[<+>-]<# < 1253840736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is meant to do? < 1253840737 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should leave 3! in the first cell < 1253840740 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 6 < 1253840747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: you're not wrapping. < 1253840760 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapping? < 1253840767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-bit brainfuck (the most common) has 0-255 cells that wrap from 256->0 and -1->255, i.e. mod 256 arithmetic < 1253840774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. what fits in an 8-bit value like C's "char" < 1253840785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this also happens to be the range of ASCII, and thus has obvious advantages for . and , < 1253840786 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yea, I thought it best not to so it was easier to work with bigger numbers < 1253840792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: then expect programs to break. < 1253840802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as almost all non-trivial BF programs rely on 8-bit wrapping < 1253840808 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it to work with a bf2py compiler < 1253840814 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it relies on it not wrapping :-p < 1253840821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix that compiler, then :P < 1253840827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's almost certainly why it's breaking. < 1253840836 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253840846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: btw, your [ is slow < 1253840856 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be a good, simple, quick nested loop program to test it with, do you reckon? < 1253840864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i strongly recommend building a table of foo[position of '['] = position of ']' and foo[position of ']'] = position of '[' beforehand < 1253840867 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, premature optimization is the root of all trees ;-) < 1253840877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: there are two types of optimisation < 1253840885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :algorithmic, and the evil kind < 1253840892 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol :-) < 1253840901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the evil kind is a last resort, but not doing trivial, massively-helping algorithmic optimisations is a sin < 1253840938 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. But I would like to see it work before I start digging around in it's innards < 1253840951 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253840958 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, too much < 1253840961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes it simpler to make it work. < 1253840971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the "searching" technique is error prone; this can be done with just a stack < 1253840990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :] pops off the location of the [, assigns it to its own location; then assigns its own location to that grabbed [ location off the stack < 1253841001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [ is a simple stack push, and ] is a simple stack pop and two dictionary assignments. < 1253841014 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do this in preprocessing_program, yea? < 1253841016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each command, when running, can just do matching[pos] < 1253841023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: sure, I didn't really read your program too much :P < 1253841027 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :-D < 1253841030 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1253841091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: if you care, python thing: "class Bf_Interpreter():" should (a) be BFInterpreter (python standard), (b) omit the "()", (c) have "(object)" (new-style objects; default in python 3. you should basically always use them) < 1253841256 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know, PEP8 is *so* long. I am forever forgetting bits of style here there and forever :-( < 1253841277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, i've pretty much absorbed pep8 in one or two readings < 1253841294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't really do much pythoneering recently. < 1253841304 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a while it's just so dry I tend to start just skimming along it < 1253841319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make baby jesus^W^Wguido sad. < 1253841407 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baby jesus != guido? < 1253841410 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did this happen? < 1253841416 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought guido was the baby jesus < 1253841421 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stops, drops, rolls
< 1253841427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's simon peyton-jones. < 1253841452 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1253841462 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(afk) < 1253841471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(guido is mary) < 1253843488 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253843689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to right something incredibly evil/idiotic in C++
< 1253843814 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as using C++? < 1253843839 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253843840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is C++ itself evil or idiotic? < 1253843892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is making a heterogenous list
< 1253843913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've told you why C++ is abominable quite a bit and you never listen, so why waste the effort? < 1253843943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when? < 1253843972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time you've mentioned it? < 1253844122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't remember :(
< 1253844452 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253844762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Faith not supported by reason and empirical evidence is wishful thinking" --19.org, claiming to be Islamic < 1253844765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION scratches head
< 1253844985 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253845269 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253848896 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253849903 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253850993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253851887 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253853067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think I have an idea as to why the discrepancy for the UltraBay battery thing < 1253853075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disabling the optical drive seems to save some battery life < 1253853079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And obviously with the UltraBay battery that's done < 1253853098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might be 1h30m + how much you save from disabling the optical drive < 1253855306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the highest PPI display I know of that isn't the ibm thingy: the 2048x1356 15" for thinkpads < 1253855312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :163.75 PPI < 1253855319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*squints* < 1253855630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd :D < 1253855683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the joke. < 1253855702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third box < 1253855706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it's just "Hur hur obvious thing everyone knows drawn badly" < 1253855713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am *so* shocked < 1253855724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect more from xkcd! not that i get it. < 1253855731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more, that is. not the joke.) < 1253855773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hereby declare ehird's sense of humor to have officially drowned in his cynicism. < 1253855798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd used to be a happy and funny aspect of my life, dammit. < 1253855852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/640/ was even a glimmer of hope. < 1253855867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, the art is inexplicably worse than usual, and that entire fourth panel ruins the entire thing and must be omitted < 1253855883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was funny, dammit (before I stopped trying to tie the third panel into the fourth to "get the joke") < 1253855894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was amusing! < 1253855895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ohhhhhhhhh no < 1253855901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're back to the same ol' xkcd. < 1253855903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as i was opening xkcd today i was all prepared to declare "damn _another_ stupid internet meme, someone tell him he's spending too much time on reddit". but then it _wasn't_. < 1253855919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small victories, eh. < 1253855973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh when i think about today's strip further, i think maybe your cynicism has infected him. hm. < 1253855992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT ANYHOW < 1253856071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i offer, for your comparison: http://xkcd.com/11/ http://xkcd.com/631/ < 1253856084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 620 comic gap is *not* enough to make that non-WTF < 1253856101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, not having the punch line in the last panel was consider new and refreshing back in the early '90s... < 1253856145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be less bad if it was just a continuation, and not an entirely irrelevant, confusing diversion that doesn't tie into the preceding frame and thus makes me search for The Real Punchline < 1253856179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but ... i thought the fourth panel fit in perfectly < 1253856206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, i may not have tried to analyse it intellectually. i'm not a joke murderer after all. < 1253856210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE BLINDED BY YOUR DEVOTION < 1253856211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253856278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATEV < 1253856349 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253856369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: have you ever considered adopting a new moniker. < 1253856396 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1253856413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am afraid that my jokes must then continue unabated < 1253856428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new computer :) < 1253856505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you poor widescreen slave. < 1253856550 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: indeed < 1253856564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1253856569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro < 1253856570 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*: good keyboard though < 1253856577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I can tell... < 1253856581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hates firefox-kde integration
< 1253856596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two bad pieces of software don't go great together? < 1253856597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my god. < 1253856611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox-gnome is pretty good I hear < 1253856627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on < 1253856629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... acceptable. epiphany is still nicer for the discerning gnomer < 1253856632 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253856662 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253856681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb coppro < 1253856706 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is up with my font sizes... < 1253856716 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a dpi issue < 1253856720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, size 9 on this computer is == 12 on old one) < 1253856724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, dpi. < 1253856742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'd recommend leaving dpi=96 just for alignment crap, prolly < 1253856747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's really unreadable < 1253856769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everything on the web for instance pretty much assumes 96ppi so you get freakishly small images along regular text... < 1253856809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... what was that firefox theme called? < 1253856811 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb again < 1253856812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253857300 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253857302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the T60 and T60p are based off of the intel socket M processors. no matter how much memory you install in these thinkpads, only 3GB will be addressable regardless of operating system used. this is a physical limitation and there is absolutely no workaround." < 1253857304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woe! < 1253857361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so fonts are good in CZ now < 1253857367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Google page text is tiny :/ < 1253857369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooooooooooooooooooooe. < 1253857381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: about:config or deal with it. < 1253857390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what you get into when you buy a high-ppi screen. < 1253857398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, all fonts < 1253857407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, eh? < 1253857409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope what < 1253857416 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the weird bit < 1253857420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS fonts are readable-size < 1253857429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, window titles and such < 1253857431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because x11 autodetected your display's ppi. < 1253857437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox ignores all that. < 1253857439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's shit. < 1253857442 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1253857449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have DPI-forcing on! < 1253857458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epiphany powah* < 1253857468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck yeah, integratin' into my environment 'n shit < 1253857477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*official epiphany gangsta sign* < 1253857578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets font size to 16 and things look sane
< 1253857584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: bad doggy. < 1253857591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sites that do font-size: foopx; will break. < 1253857601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about:config and set yerself some ppi if you want it to work < 1253857612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I suggest you get used to it, though, unless you really like freakishly-tiny images < 1253857697 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has fiddled with font sizes and is now satisfied
< 1253857713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will work for google, which uses relative font sizes. < 1253857721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so for the 90% of sites that set font size absolutely. < 1253857734 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253857741 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, whatever < 1253857752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get used to it < 1253857772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more pixels are alas not objectively better in the current situation < 1253857789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you want knock the zoom up, so that images and text are sized up < 1253857795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit pixelated ofc < 1253857799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuk < 1253857828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember his 6th rss feed on the toolbar
< 1253858245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253858269 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253858288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253858338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear xchat-gnome: i really don't need a server lag indicator in that otherwise-empty status bar < 1253858962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253859043 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253859079 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can low-level FPGA programming be done? < 1253859084 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to do? < 1253859122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1253859124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so? < 1253859129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that all FPGA programming? < 1253859160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean *really* low-level, like, not Verilog or VHDL, but just programming each gate individually manually by hand. < 1253859177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use that subset of Verilog/VHDL. < 1253859184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure they have such things at the lowest layer. < 1253859188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, why? < 1253859192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a world of pain. < 1253859283 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to learn how each gates works individually, and then I can write macros in Forth. < 1253859303 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, each macro can be a subroutine to write stuff into memory or into a file, and then loads the FPGA < 1253859315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why do people think legalizing drugs is The Answer? I thought The Answer was 42." -- some quote from I don't know what (but it can be found in my game ASCMZXTO.MZX) < 1253859319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to invent a replacement for electricity too because you didn't write it? :P < 1253859329 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No. < 1253859332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1253859335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be fun. < 1253859340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magnetic computer. < 1253859360 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is a interesting idea. Maybe a esolang can be made about magnetic computer. < 1253859368 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I (or someone else) can add it to the idea list < 1253859388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Optical computer, air-based computer (think little balls pushed by fans) < 1253859404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think the latter can be TC; the former might be with quantumly stuff. < 1253859413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are also interesting idea. < 1253859414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magnetic computers probably can be TC (assuming infinite space) < 1253859422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: *ideas btw < 1253859442 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravity computer has already been done in esolangs. < 1253859492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravity's boring. < 1253859493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253859585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, a magnetic computer seems to be the most obvious idea to work out of all of those. < 1253859608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really think of much you could do with crossing lasers, and the air doesn't count; you need electricity for the fans. < 1253859631 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1253859637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a magnetic computer seems simple: you can do chain reactions, and have magnets stay in states stably, plus you can keep them out of equilibrium. < 1253859649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it'd look cool. < 1253859687 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think it would be interesting to make. < 1253859784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it couldn't go perpetually though, could it? < 1253859789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to set it off every so often < 1253859792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, obviously < 1253859860 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you make a esolang you could assume it is automatically set it off < 1253859864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253859874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think for the basic shape of the computer it should be mounted on the exterior of a cylinder... < 1253859880 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But an interpreter on a standard computer might have both option, one for manual and one for automatic < 1253859880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way with weights you can make it turn < 1253859887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and interact with stationary things to the side of it < 1253859892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on its turn state < 1253859894 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, more annoyances: the mute button operates in hardware :( < 1253859905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so? < 1253859909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no need for an option < 1253859915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody wants to sit there hitting "power" < 1253859939 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so I can't a) unmute by pressing it again (you have to use up/down for that) b) quickly check to see if I'm muted < 1253859953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: use another button < 1253859972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1253860003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+F12 or something < 1253860010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or heck, Windows+F12 < 1253860013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero conflicts < 1253860018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much work < 1253860024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whiner :P < 1253860024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253860031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pot kettle black!) < 1253860039 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... found a solutio < 1253860043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mute, for what? Please tell me what you are muting? < 1253860048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: his laptop. < 1253860049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sound < 1253860071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :muting solutio for magnetic computers | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1253860097 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use the Proprietary BloatWare(tm) Launch(r) Key(tm), which is right next to the volume control < 1253860120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i hear that the thinkvantage stuff isn't too terrible, actually. < 1253860127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a whole key for it is ridiculous < 1253860133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, just hax the kb :) < 1253860217 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just imagines the support call for that
< 1253860268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you call the presumably useless chinese support team anyway :P < 1253860297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they've been great so far. They've told me that Lenovo's idea of a windows install disk is called a disk reimage < 1253860321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some definition of great. < 1253860331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hello. yes, our product sucks. thanks!" < 1253860334 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1253860355 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION enjoys the conversation when he tries to return it
< 1253860363 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not) < 1253860364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return what, the laptop? < 1253860367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Windows < 1253860369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1253860388 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be even tougher because I had to start it to find out they had no useful reinstall disk, in theory accepting the agreement < 1253860388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm pretty sure the get-the-windows-tax-back stuff only works if you sue people like that guy. < 1253860398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to explain to them how mistake works in contract law < 1253860410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you don't expect all that to work do you < 1253860420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *did* agree to purchase a notebook with windows... < 1253860431 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the license agreement specifically says you can refund it < 1253860439 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible, just tricky < 1253860444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but the two contracts disagree < 1253860453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implicit one to lenovo and the one with microsoft < 1253860464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is the far more visible one, it probably trumps the latter. < 1253860491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : INCL-ONCE IF BEGIN CHAR 0= UNTIL ELSE 1 CONSTANT THEN ; < 1253860511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abbreviation? in my forth words? < 1253860513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tut tut. < 1253860523 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed I'd get a useful method of install < 1253860523 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm a minor (whee!) < 1253860539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what does being a minor have to do with anything? < 1253860544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Change it if you don't like it! < 1253860546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: contracts can't bind me! < 1253860562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: congratulations, you've never bought anything legally in your life. < 1253860579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every company has given you something out of the goodness of your heart after you gave them money < 1253860581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they still exist. I just can't be held to them... you can't either < 1253860599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're still bound by them, you just can't be dinged for not following them. < 1253860620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the legal term is 'voidable at the minor's option' < 1253860628 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or somesuch < 1253860633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"why no officer, please do note that I violated the windows EULA" < 1253860642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i am a broken man" < 1253860646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no. you're 12" < 1253860647 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253860647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"broken" < 1253860650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"man" < 1253860794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes an email to MS explaining that I void the license agreement.
< 1253860820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: your error is in believing the law's text has any relevance to the Law. :P < 1253860837 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Most of it is common law, actually < 1253860844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, by voiding it you also void the clause that lets you get a refund... < 1253860853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that clause in lenovo's? < 1253860874 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, it's part of the agreement prior to you agreeing to it < 1253860878 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird, I know < 1253860897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit isn't gonna work btw < 1253860900 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter, if part of it is voided, you cannot get a refund either in case they didn't allow that in the voiding process of the contract license itself. < 1253860905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it probably would if you weren't a minor, but they'll just disregard you as a kiddie. < 1253860951 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I believe it's actually two separate contracts on the same text < 1253860961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :licensing agreements are weird in any case < 1253860974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EULAs have never been ruled to be valid < 1253860978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is all just muddier and muddier. < 1253860980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: O. Really? But, they are bound together though, isn't it? < 1253860986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and they have been ruled to be invalid in some places) < 1253861028 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253861035 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EULAs may not be valid, but the refund still wouldn't be allowed if the rest of the contract that allowed you to get the refund has been violated, anyways. But, if the refund is a store refund instead, the refund might still be allowed. < 1253861039 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I'm not quite sure. < 1253861053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably doesn't have a lot to do with the EULA, however. < 1253861073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of this he's going to get like $50 for >$50 worth in time < 1253861077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably phone bills < 1253861078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1253861087 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone here do ANSI screen art? < 1253861158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm the sata in the t60(p) is 1.5 Gbit. < 1253861166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing I don't care about throughput < 1253861177 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253861211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latest bios hacking work seems to get like a bit over 3.5GiB memory out of it... < 1253861217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is acceptable i guess < 1253861232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1.5Gb < 1253861303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mb = 1 000 000 bits. Mib = 1 024 000 bits. MB = 1 000 000 bytes. MiB = 1 024 000 bytes. < 1253861311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah, case-differing units. < 1253861388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024000 is a very strange choice; are you sure you don't want 1048576 instead? < 1253861407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, oops < 1253861412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Er, oops. < 1253861429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mb = 1 000 000 bits. Mib = 1 048 576 bits. MB = 1 000 000 bytes. MiB = 1 048 576 bytes. < 1253861486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, my internet connection is 8Mb/s, and I get about 800KiB/s in practice. < 1253861492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Still on the fence about KiB vs kiB.) < 1253861692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, I'm getting tired of "lol linux is unusable" crap. < 1253861875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam subject: "Magic berry that will make you look like a princess." Er. < 1253861887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I want to be the prettiest princess around. < 1253861956 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYS HOWS IT GOIN < 1253861962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :princessly. < 1253861980 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ofcourse < 1253861988 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're pretty princessish in general < 1253862033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, fizzie is. < 1253862041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is the fizziest. fizzlest. < 1253862048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzcess. < 1253862096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit fizzcessive, yes. < 1253862106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzcest. < 1253862430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's xkcd: at least an original expression of an only-slightly-interesting thing everyone knows/ < 1253862431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1253862432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope! < 1253862433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=974#comic < 1253862769 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-hvyojudbefvrypuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253863066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Crops_Kansas_AST_20010624.jpg?crop ;; this looks so unreal. backgrounded! < 1253863236 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does your face < 1253863250 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horribly inefficient technology anyways < 1253863289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: what, my face? < 1253863325 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :center-pivot irrigation < 1253863348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she irrigated. using a center pivot. < 1253863353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's pretty. < 1253863366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the tilting < 1253863469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haha, your face, it's so inefficient!" has to be one of the strangest insults. < 1253863481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know right < 1253863563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with tiling window managers is I never really get to see my background image. < 1253863583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny. that's the problem i have with spawning windows like there's no tomorrow. < 1253863589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why close when you can cover/ < 1253863592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*why close when you can cover? < 1253863601 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only uses 78% of available land < 1253863620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your face uses 78% of available land too, but I don't see anybody calling that too little. < 1253863637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, shut up, it makes pretty patterns. < 1253864031 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitamo < 1253864081 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253864086 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that arranging the circle hexagonally doesn't do any better than the square way < 1253864087 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd < 1253864125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractal crops. < 1253864128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite circles < 1253864153 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love making these drawings with a compass < 1253864280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange; hexagonal packing should be denser than square: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CirclePacking.html < 1253864320 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253864325 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1253864358 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just made some drawings and figured they were equal < 1253864370 0 :Ilari_!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253864409 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reconnecting" < 1253864417 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1253864451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253864562 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with both you can fit 1 unit circle inside each unit square < 1253864881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think the hexagonal packing even looks obviously denser: both have the same distance between circles in one row, but in hexagonal packing the rows are closer together. (Alternatively; if you draw that unit square around each circle, in square packing there's no overlap, while in hexagonal packing there is.) < 1253865599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253865600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253865612 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draw a unit square through half of one of the circles, and the centers of two of it neighbors < 1253865637 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get 1 unit circle's area in 1 unit square < 1253865668 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253865762 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap < 1253865765 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rectangle < 1253865801 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind :P < 1253865843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurf durf < 1253865878 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to figuring out what the fraction is < 1253867128 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphere packing in higher dimensions is pretty interesting stuff < 1253867322 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253867401 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still haven't gotten it... < 1253868112 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253868580 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253868986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fucking hell, Tk on X11. < 1253868997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has a thing more hideous existed. < 1253870281 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalala < 1253870515 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1643#comic < 1253870541 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be humorous if we werent already saturated with so many signals 24/7 < 1253870735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that supposed to mean < 1253870738 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-169-194.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253870769 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253870784 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radio signals, tv signals, cell phone signals, wifi signals, etc etc etc < 1253870790 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all permeate the human body < 1253870802 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're in any place that gets any of those < 1253870812 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your body has them streaming through you all the time < 1253870829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur < 1253870831 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1253870834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wasn't in some way inaccurate < 1253870837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wouldn't call it a comic < 1253870841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd call it a textbook < 1253870841 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253870843 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1253870845 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not inaccurate < 1253870869 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just oblivious to the fact that its presuppositions arent correct! < 1253870896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure mr weiner will be interested in your complaint < 1253870927 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure he would < 1253870958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance augur < 1253870958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1647#comic < 1253870961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would never happen < 1253870966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore it is not funny < 1253870972 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1253870985 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253870987 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1253870989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its presuppositions, so to speak < 1253870991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't correct. < 1253870992 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not about what would or wouldnt happen < 1253871003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1253871009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s about the mismatch of comic reality : real reality < 1253871015 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, except thats the problem < 1253871024 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there IS no mismatch in the comic i linked to < 1253871026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called humour < 1253871036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: dude, stfu. < 1253871037 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats precisely my point < 1253871050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny kay < 1253871061 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k. < 1253871381 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1253871397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im bored. < 1253872886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1253872928 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im never bored, but thats because im in a state of constant low grade panic over the statistical arguments for the relatively short expected lifetime of a technological civilization from a cosmological perspective < 1253872984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really matter if you don't survive. < 1253873031 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my selfish genes want to transmit their information content into the future though, and the memetic equivalents that i perceive as my value structures want beethoven's music to still be played in 100 billion years < 1253873086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems likely to me that a technological civilization can either undergo a technological singularity, and survive, or collapse < 1253873102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say, singularity or bunk! < 1253873105 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the evidence from looking at the universe is pretty discouraging < 1253873140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if we have a singularity it'll be almost certain that we make music many orders of a magnitude better than beethoven very quickly < 1253873144 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if civilizations could actually stay on the energy manipulation and population curve that weve been on, there would be multiple 'god class' civilizations in the observable universe, probably < 1253873152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so that's probably not conductive to your goal < 1253873170 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice, i for one welcome our artificially intelligent compositional overlords creating algorithmic music of heart stopping beauty < 1253873189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically those overlords would be, um, us. < 1253873228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, civilization is basically made up of idiots because people are idiots. < 1253873260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a singularity is probably the only even vaguely easy way to rapidly self-improve our intelligence, and thus become less idiotic < 1253873272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the "singularity or bust" theory isn't very arbitrary < 1253873280 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only relatively speaking, compared to the average lobster we are pretty smart, and a lobster is a genius compared with a hydrogen molecule < 1253873287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more specifically we need the unidioticness to manage and control resources < 1253873299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything beyond that is mostly irrelevant as far as maintaining a society goes. although culture helps. < 1253873319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yah, but lobsters don't cover a planet and then start to destroy it without coming up with a way to get off it. < 1253873324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too stupid to be dangerous. < 1253873327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're too stupid not to be. < 1253873329 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah despite my psychological affinity for cultural productions like music i agree that we need fewere musicians and more energy researchers, etc < 1253873341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or AI researchers :P < 1253873346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if in doubt, offload the problem!" < 1253873378 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we already have emergent AI in the real world, we just dont realize it because its operating at a higher hierarchical organizational scale than human individuals < 1253873396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we have what could suggest future cognitive structures < 1253873404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it just isn't there yet < 1253873412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, it's dumber than a rock < 1253873422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, ants make up a smart ant colony < 1253873434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ants aren't actively stupid causing them to work against the colony < 1253873438 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im kind of a minimalist/operationalist when it comes to AI so from my perspective weve had emergent artificial intelligences embedded within our symbol systems on higher levels for a long time < 1253873442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just not clever enough to achieve things themselves < 1253873453 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that it has been incredibly accelerated due to the digital revolution < 1253873454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we, however, are dumb enough to be actively hostile, intentional or not, to the hivemind < 1253873485 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i have a pretty perverse belief that we should be actively fighting the hivemind because the emergent entity has interests that our contrary to ours as individuals < 1253873492 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are contrary < 1253873517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: that's the thing, isn't it: it's kind of hard to make a hivemind Friendly AI < 1253873524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't exactly program it at the top level... < 1253873544 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why you better program the Three Laws of Robotics into your new OS < 1253873572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: please say you just joked < 1253873584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am tired of people thinking the three laws are suitable or helpful in any way :( < 1253873594 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the 3 laws are not algorithmically formulatable its obviously a joke < 1253873618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're really terrible laws; evil is perfectly possible with them and it inhibits much good < 1253873681 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you implying that the pop cultural versions of classic sci-fi concepts are not actually a suitable organizational framework for the society of the future? < 1253873698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't believe that things not too abstracted from that have actually been said in seriousness, would you. < 1253873701 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a jedi knight in training whos planning on attending starfleet academy soon and then going to work for the gray lensmen, i am upset < 1253873709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, oh snap < 1253873722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i would have used "deeply offended" instead of "upset" though) < 1253873746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: another common idiocy - "Strong AI? Haven't you ever seen The Terminator?" < 1253873754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that piece of fiction is so... accurate? true? < 1253873827 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already suspect you of being an AI agent ehird, my superiors in the Time Corps are linked in and monitoring this channel < 1253873851 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your disinformation campaign wont succeed, weve beaten you before - IN THE FUTURE < 1253873857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a hivemind with exactly one mind < 1253873876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...give or take an internet and a sphere of people < 1253873889 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i actually believe the human race has already lost control, since the late 1800s or so < 1253873897 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didnt even need digital tech to do it < 1253873939 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i place the time of transition of society run for human beings to society run on the behalf of the emergent structures controlling it to occur at the time of mechanical clock synchronization by the railroads, pretty much < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if post-singularity societies sit around, going < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're improving every planck time < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is really boring, a huge vast expanse of all uh < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 seconds < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've been in this thing < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when do we get to the next thing < 1253874024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the next thing happens to be using time as an additional spatial dimension to improve even faster :-P) < 1253874059 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read accelerando by charlie stross? available under open source license and the best novel i know of inspired by singularity ideas < 1253874083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1253874091 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think his hypothesis that matrioshka brain civilizations are too bound to their star to undertake interstellar travel might actually be correct < 1253874099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone putting any kind of restriction on their work clearly isn't a real singularitarian though :P < 1253874102 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a nice resolution of the fermi paradox < 1253874123 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, the modern singularity people dont seem to view it in the old fashioned mckenna way anymore that much < 1253874133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1253874142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what inferrences are you making from my line < 1253874143 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well, gotta give some background on this < 1253874144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inferences < 1253874147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1253874151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you get from < 1253874156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyone putting any kind of restriction on their work clearly isn't a real singularitarian though :P < 1253874157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to < 1253874161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, the modern singularity people dont seem to view it in the old fashioned mckenna way anymore that much < 1253874165 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah let me try to unpack a bit < 1253874195 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first contact with the idea of technological singularity was via robert anton wilson when i was a teenager back in the 80s, in his book 'cosmic trigger' < 1253874215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I meant it was that any society-enforce restrictions on digital information at all is inherently antithetical to the singularity < 1253874218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enforced < 1253874256 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his reference was the mckenna brothers who thought technological change would accelerate to the point where we basically became godlike intelligences (he also linked it to that mayan calendar bullshit long before it became pop cultural, i never expected that shit to make it mainstream) < 1253874270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Colin Percival of FreeBSD fame entered university at 13. < 1253874303 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the modern formulation of singularity theory backs off from claims like 'achieving godlikeness' with that wishy-washy 'singularity is the point at which technology causes the future to be unpredictable on the basis of what has gone before' < 1253874317 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a nice kind of mathematically/relativistically inspired way of putting it i guess, but its a non-claim really < 1253874318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's multiple branches of singularity theory, fwiw. < 1253874327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very hard to predict anything by its very nature. < 1253874378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think the most likely way for it to happen (as a traditional, separate-AI singularity) is: AI starts up, takes over everything, develops mind uploading, offers it, the poor sods who don't want their mind uploaded are SOL < 1253874406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I imagine that totally self-improving the brain without limit is a harder to develop with a physical brain than both developing mind uploading and self-improvement software working in digital.) < 1253874428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by SOL I mean exactly the same as before :P < 1253874438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly including the religious as they waddle around waiting for god to come defeat this evil satan. < 1253874487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "massively self-improved uploaded minds" is pretty close to "achieving godliness in the fabric of the cosmos", but it's less bullshitty. < 1253874487 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant really hypothesize too well without an answer to the question of whether or not the informational content and functioning of the brain can be accurately simulated with significant abstraction away from the wetware < 1253874502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it can't be, let us change it so it can. < 1253874507 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a lot of the old old fashioned singularity stuff was based much more on energy manipulation than on information processing < 1253874536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's easier to flip a bit than to mess with a gooey blob, so even if it can't be the uploading is a plus. < 1253874536 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old curves they traced were tracing the amount of mass-energy that could be manipulated technologically < 1253874538 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saying those curves extrapolated to galaxy-scaled rebuilding and restructuring pretty soon < 1253874557 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats mostly been abandoned in favor of the much more sensible AI based scenarios < 1253874569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, throughout the whole singularity meme, Vernor Vinge, its originator, has seemed to kept one of the levellest heads about it. < 1253874573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to have kept < 1253874591 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont consider him the originator, i would say it goes back to at least Teilhard de Chardin < 1253874608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: every idea has predecessors < 1253874651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he wrote the piece that named it, defined it as one single idea and predicted things about it < 1253874651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is widely credited with originating it < 1253874651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough for me < 1253874722 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not good enough for me, but i guess its a semantic issue, i really think the exact concept of the singularity was well expressed by the mckenna brothers in the 70s < 1253874755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the basic concept is relatively obvious, I'd say. but without Vinge, any discussions about it would look very, very different than they do today. < 1253874794 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i dont think it would have made it out of the cult/esoteric circuit probably < 1253874806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it arguably hasn't. < 1253874839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact when thinking about the singularity I often have to step back and go "wait, wait, like *everyone* considers this seriously crazy. am I thinking sanely about this?" < 1253874846 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i cant really assess, im honestly not part of my society so i have no clue whats mainstream < 1253874863 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather 'my society' is an extremely nonstandard subset < 1253874886 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this channel for instance is a reference to me for 'what other people think about things' < 1253874895 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you/we are probably atypical, statistically < 1253874919 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when i talk to other other people, you get to be the hand-wavy 'everyone says' < 1253874930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, me in particular? < 1253874948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I've heard of this Charles Stross' novels before. < 1253874951 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, not specially-specifically, but probably the next time im talking to person Y about tech singularity, ill say < 1253874963 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"everyone says vernor vinge is the most important figure in the modern construction of the concept < 1253874973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1253874974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask wikipedia < 1253874978 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1253874981 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god people < 1253874983 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be quiet < 1253874988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: this is a channel for talking. < 1253874993 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its not < 1253874995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can gtfo if you'd prefer silence < 1253874996 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not for talking < 1253874998 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all < 1253875010 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont make me rape you, ehird < 1253875014 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONT MAKE ME < 1253875026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you rape an immortal uploaded mind. < 1253875029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't even make any sense. < 1253875034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, that's confidential < 1253875034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1253875035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1253875036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1253875037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo < 1253875039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't rape me :| < 1253875074 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i delight in the knowledge that i probably just broke like 10 pretty serious laws < 1253875095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure joking "don't make me rape you" to a 14 year old over the internet isn't illegal. < 1253875100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe in the usa. < 1253875101 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too, im glad its not just me - so whats your tip for getting blood off a chainsaw? < 1253875106 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably is in the US < 1253875116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i think you'll have to ask hans reiser[1] < 1253875125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/so-i-married-a-kernel-programmer < 1253875164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like how the marquee there doesn't blink nowadays because of stupid anti-blink fascist browsers :( < 1253875167 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive decided i really need to set up a surveillance system to monitor myself, so i can prove im not a terrorist or murderer < 1253875207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that will be necessary. < 1253875240 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i fit every profile of sociopathic unabomber types, i really want to document what im doing and when so when somebody in my town does something evil and the computer systems flag me as a statistical match for the profile, i can document myself < 1253875271 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which browser ignores ? :( < 1253875274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it that people have such an overinflated opinion of how uncommon they are. :) < 1253875277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: gecko. < 1253875281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think webkit < 1253875295 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure it's not just browser.blink_allowed = false? < 1253875305 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it worked by default. < 1253875324 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually its the commonality thats the problem, the vast proportion of false positives < 1253875328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's enabled by default. < 1253875333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: well not in epiphany at least < 1253875334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least < 1253875336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu's gecko < 1253875370 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested marquees rock. < 1253875386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: here's an aspect of the unabomber you don't (presumably) fit: you don't mail bomb people < 1253875391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: they're pretty. < 1253875415 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253875523 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, which is why it can only be beneficial to me to document what im doing < 1253875529 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of a pascal's wager type thing < 1253875540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a little over-paranoid < 1253875543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better things to do with your time < 1253875554 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the other stuff i do with my time is plan 9 programming, are you sure? < 1253875570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that at least is possibly amusing to someone other than yourself :P < 1253875644 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given what we know (and i mean the factual stuff that has been publicly announced/admitted, not the crazy tinfoil hat stuff) about data collection and computerized analysis, a certain concern over how you are going to look from a statistical point of view seems to me to be warranted < 1253875673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chill, man :| < 1253876175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253876190 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253876561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh and the internet isnt science, its tech. < 1253876561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dick head" --YouTube comments < 1253876720 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People around here tend to put cartoon printouts in their office doors; if I had my own room, instead of this shared thing, I'd probably put the first row of http://dresdencodak.com/2009/09/22/caveman-science-fiction/ up. It describes our research well. < 1253876865 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253877177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i could like, solder the t60(p) mobo to make it support the full 4gb of ram :) < 1253877288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Implications of the Turing completeness of reaction-diffusion models, informed by GPGPU simulations on an XBox 360: Cardiac arrhythmias, re-entry and the Halting problem" < 1253877295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i so appreciate my heart like 10x more now < 1253877299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the xbox 360. < 1253877317 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, im googling that text to find out wtf this is < 1253877364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://igoro.com/archive/human-heart-is-a-turing-machine-research-on-xbox-360-shows-wait-what/ layman's explanation < 1253877370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/79271/turing.pdf peedy eff < 1253877374 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found teh article < 1253877384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it means our hearts are turing complete or something. < 1253877389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, presumably with finite memory. < 1253877451 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument is fascinating, it seems to rest on the idea that turing completeness is a barrier to predictability due to the halting problem, but i need to read this in detail because that basic argument seems a bit specious to me < 1253877462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION spurts liquid out of mouth
< 1253877467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you read the whole paper that quickly? < 1253877481 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, thats basically the abstract... < 1253877498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253877527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you'll have to understand cardiology, xbox 360 optimisation, differential equations, turing completeness and shading languages < 1253877528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Based on his(?) paper-reading speed, I suspect one of those immortal uploaded minds. < 1253877530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck < 1253877553 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have a decent grasp on about 50% of that stuff < 1253877605 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :differential equations are pretty easy to *understand* but they are challenging to 'work with' -fortunately when you are just reading the paper the paper's authors have done that stuff for you < 1253877641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a fairly standard way of doing comments in BF." ;; why isn't everyone who says such things in here already? :P < 1253877745 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there is a weird circularity about this paper < 1253877753 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-ybnfdrekkjiiyweu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253877772 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is that what is being studied for turing completeness is the computational model of reaction diffusion < 1253877818 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could make an argument that just because the computer model you create is turing complete, that doesnt necessarily prove anything fundamental about the physical system being modeled, unless you can prove they are fully isometric, which of course isnt possible with any squishy biological systems < 1253877831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP RUINING MY FANTASTISE < 1253877835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FANTASIES < 1253877836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253877846 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this involves fluid dynamics, you are instantly in the domain of the navier-stokes equations to begin with, and those arent even proved non-singular, thats one of the big prizes < 1253877849 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this is a cool paper < 1253877853 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just thought-provoked by it < 1253877856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway we clearly just need to fuck with someone's heart to see if it works. < 1253877936 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really though - hmm...since turing completeness is so minimal...i mean cant all physical systems 'do arithmetic' so to speak? ive seen this topic addressed elsewhere actually, i wonder if these guys...lemme check their citations < 1253878003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.linusakesson.net/files/lft_craft.avi this is great < 1253878019 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this bibliography is great, you see a citation for 4 dudes paper 'real-time memory on an excitable field' and the next citation is 'prince of persia', ubisoft < 1253878076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253878176 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this paper is great, but i think their final conclusion based on the halting problem is totally incorrect < 1253878196 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument is technically correct but they ignore something all programmers should know < 1253878223 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because the halting problem is theoretically indecidable algorithmically and in general doesnt mean that you cant actually answer it in practice for a huge number of programs... < 1253878233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still damn hard < 1253878253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how did the C64 address 64K of RAM? 8 bits = 0.25KiB < 1253878261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it used a larger memory bus thingy. < 1253878276 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are saying that because what goes on in the heart is a superset of a utm, the goal of predicting arythmias and stuff like that runs into the halting problem < 1253878290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit, the state is finite and probably small < 1253878291 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is true as far as it goes, but that doesnt go very far < 1253878296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just check to see if it repeats :P < 1253878348 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think the fact is that godel and turing type 'problem cases' are very much shown to be atypical of 'generic' situations for the most part < 1253878384 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the same reason that a working programmer isnt 'hung up' by the halting problem in doing their coding, i doubt working cardiologists or heart researchers will be stuck because of the turing completenesss < 1253878398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no duh < 1253878406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know about the c64? < 1253878431 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from hands on experience yes, but not too much technically despite childhood enthusiasms < 1253878452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's still damn hard < 1253878452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, how did the C64 address 64K of RAM? 8 bits = 0.25KiB < 1253878452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess it used a larger memory bus thingy. < 1253878486 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were quite a few tricks and hacks used in all that old old pc hardware < 1253878505 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember my family's apple ][ had an expansion board that let it use 128k in some weird bank switched mode < 1253878507 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253878579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe they just addressed by memory-value, where memory-value = 16 bits < 1253878588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt it though, prolly just a different-sized memory bus < 1253878643 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heres some delicious nostalgia http://sta.c64.org/cbm64mem.html < 1253878695 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i well remember doing direct memory poking to operate the sid chip for audio sltuff < 1253878709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets itchy to write a proper multitasking OS for the c64
< 1253878740 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im pretty sure the hobbyist magazines would print musical themes in the form of poke sequences < 1253878799 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the gui os for c64, um geos i think? < 1253878817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or contiki. :P < 1253878838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik no c64 OSes try to do what windows did for dos; multiplex "native" apps < 1253878842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that's ridiculously hard < 1253878879 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id like to see a c64 based hypervisor for virtualized vic20s and PETs < 1253878891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hypervisors! < 1253878893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native speed baby < 1253878895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native hardware < 1253879449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C64 has a 16 bits wide address bus, yes. < 1253879485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame < 1253879512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The registers are only 8 bits wide, though. There's a couple of different addressing modes there. < 1253879532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real men use 10-bit architectures < 1253879541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's divisible by two, it's a whole kilo of ram, what else do you fucking need < 1253879623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many instructions support absolute addressing, with a two-byte address following the one-byte opcode; and then there are two indirect modes that read a two-byte pointer from the zero page (memory locations 0..255) and use that. < 1253879636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you know what, use a fucking 9-bit architecture and have a separate ROM < 1253879637 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253879640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to store the program in < 1253879647 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253879665 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added one in anarchy golf, I hope there is not a mistake. < 1253879707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only issue is that I have no idea what I'm meant to do :P < 1253879710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still quite a lot of kludgery in the C16. The video chip (VIC-II) has only 14 address bits, and the top two bits are generated by (iirc) two outputs from the CIA chip. < 1253879723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/16/64/ < 1253879724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hell with the SID < 1253879725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's, like < 1253879730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unneeded complexity < 1253879730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1253879755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly there's probably a lot kludgery in the C16 too, but I've never used one. < 1253879836 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-169-194.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253879846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C16 looks like a target for demoscenery < 1253879900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very popular; all the action happens on the VIC-20 and C64. < 1253879906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.commodore16.com/index.php/component/content/article/49-how-to/327-creating-amazing-c16plus-4-images.html < 1253879911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can do more colours than the C64. < 1253880057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No sprites, though. (There's been quite a lot of trickery involving the VIC-II sprites, since they can be used to generate interrupts.) < 1253880112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't enough fun C64-era computers < 1253880115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "more colours without flickering" would probably be more accurate; people do the "get a mixed colour by alternating a pixel between two colours every frame" stuff on the C64. < 1253880136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you could flicker this too. < 1253880171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but why on earth would you want more than 121 colours? < 1253880268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could almost run monkey island's DOS version with 242 colours. < 1253880321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and DOS. < 1253880666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A still image is going to be probably all you can manage with the full palette, anyway; the whole FLI mess is pretty demanding of resources. (The standard multicolor mode only lets you use a four-color palette -- of which one is the global background color -- in each 4x8-pixel cell of the 160x200 multicolor mode.) < 1253880741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder how many FPS you can get. < 1253880765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use properties of the eye to keep a certain colour longer than an exaggerated blink, to try and overcome the low FPS. < 1253880921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the frame-flicker-color-mixing thing on the C64 has another upside: you can use the hardware scrolling register to shift the second image vertically by half a pixel (the 160x200 multicolor mode pixels are built out of two 320x200 pixels) so you get sort-of 320x200 resolution too. Except that color of a single pixel in frame A is then mixed with the right and left halves of two pixels in frame B. < 1253880932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/vertically/horizontally/ < 1253880942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am a thinko today.) < 1253881035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Take that, and hook a C64 up to an LCD. < 1253881038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You now have: < 1253881041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) subpixels < 1253881046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) the most confusing display technology ever < 1253881197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the C128 had a digital video-out for the second graphics chipset; in 1985, quite a bit before the proliferation of DVI. (Okay, so it's not that impressive when you consider that the EGA monitor connector was digital too.) < 1253881231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, with that image-shifting plus the weird pixel situation, subpixels are just going to make it even more confusing. < 1253881250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use it to make something shake really flickery, right? Like, only shaking one pixel, but shaking many subpixels. So fluider. < 1253881428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's your favourite 8-bit computer? < 1253881453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to go with the C128, since it's the only one I actually own. < 1253881467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty high-end as far as these things go, though. < 1253881474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really count if it's easier now, does it. < 1253881483 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vote apple ][ for the best overall software library < 1253881497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i mean more from a purist point of view < 1253881509 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh tech wise you mean? design etc? < 1253881509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not from is it good as much as nostalgia, but not due to the software base < 1253881519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like "oh well I like the apple ][ a lot." < 1253881597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C128 doesn't really make things much "easier" w.r.t. C64 (which I guess is a reasonably high-end computer already); about the only thing it's got going is double the memory size, and even so only half of it is addressable at any one time. < 1253881655 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me the later revisions on the c64 platform didnt quite do enough to make them very exciting < 1253881655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too much memory. you could even forget about compact spacing. < 1253881690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the unexpanded VIC-20 (about 4K of RAM) has a certain charm too. < 1253881706 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah the vic and even the pet are great < 1253881710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the PET is so incredibly sci-fi. < 1253881713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Commodore_PET2001.jpg < 1253881722 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had those in my elementary school and we made fun of them < 1253881759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The VIC-20 is basically a retarded C64, isn't it? < 1253881763 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe i still own an original sherlock holmes fanfic i wrote as a kid that was done on a PET and printed, and its notable because the 'hang down' characters dont work < 1253881767 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of, but it was earlier < 1253881770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That PET looks sexually retro. < 1253881777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sextro. < 1253881809 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you can just see the girl with the bullet bra and beehive hairdo wearing tight white vinyl clothes and hear the 70s jazz-funk soundtrack < 1253881819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1253881822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the PET even have graphics mode? < 1253881845 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i think all the 'graphics' were done with graphical text characters, ascii art style < 1253881854 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they made special character set for doin graphics with little diagonal lines etc < 1253881914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame. it looks really sweet, but you can't really have a fun demo time without gfx < 1253881919 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that character set carried through to the c64 even < 1253881927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.atariarchives.org/cgp/images/img188-1.JPG < 1253881929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this then eh < 1253881937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This book shows you how to create your own video graphics on the new personal computers being sold across the country. It is oriented toward the Radio Shack TRS-80, the Commodore PET 2001, and the Apple II home computers, and it is geared to the user who wants to know the concepts and techniques for drawing pictures, making graphs and charts, animating shapes and objects, creating mandalas and dazzlers, and just about any application of the visual arts tha < 1253881938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t you can imagine. < 1253881983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_CBM-II < 1253881991 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia seems to think the pet couldnt bitmap < 1253882001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically speaking the VIC-20 does not have a "graphics mode" either, but you can point the character generator at RAM memory and redefine the character shapes, which sort-of gives you a graphics mode, except messier. < 1253882002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The P series used the VIC-II 40-column color video chip like the C64 < 1253882014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have a PET with a C64 video chip here < 1253882018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to boot, it's obscure < 1253882025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, it has a hueg 128KiB of RAM < 1253882078 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, i was right about those graphical character symbols...called 'petscii' apparently which is fucking ADORABLE < 1253882109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Atari8.png < 1253882110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1253882112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, petscii's still there in the C128 and anything. < 1253882114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just became an Atari 8-bit fan < 1253882172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oldcomputers.net/atari400.html < 1253882174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1253882175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this, is the SHIT < 1253882184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 1.8MHz < 1253882191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8KiB RAM < 1253882195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :320x192 monochrome < 1253882200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :190x96 128-colour < 1253882204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$549 < 1253882205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1253882208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :released in fucking 1979 < 1253882224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: [[the Atari 400 has an "advanced child-proof design featuring pressure-sensitive, wipe-clean keyboard"]] < 1253882232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More power than in the VIC-20. :p < 1253882235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me, or was the C64 like super-obsolete before it came out??? < 1253882241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this awesome thing came out in 1979 < 1253882282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure it has audio though < 1253882300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oldcomputers.net/atari800.html < 1253882310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigger brother to it, same basic specs but with more slots and stuff < 1253882320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Atari 800 has multiple special purpose co-processors for sound and graphics to take the load off of the 6502 CPU, and it has sprites and collision-detection built into its hardware, so it is an excellent game machine. " < 1253882322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*." < 1253882325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm one of two opinions < 1253882329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) way too easy, 400 is better < 1253882337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) how could we abuse that for crazy purposes? < 1253882475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253882488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any opin'yunz on that thing? < 1253882499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesomity (or at least obsoletity, or market approval) is not always about the specs, though. To quote, "the greatest competitors to the C64 were the Atari 8-bit 400 and 800 -- [which] were very similar in hardware terms, but used custom chips for graphics and sound, and so were very expensive to build. -- One key to the C64's success was Commodore's aggressive marketing tactics, and they were quick to exploit the relative price/performance divisions betwee < 1253882499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n its competitors with a series of television commercials after the C64's launch in late 1982." < 1253882510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really an Atari person, I don't have an opinion there. < 1253882535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the C64 does hardware sprites and collision-detection too, so I wouldn't go so far as to call it obsolete. < 1253882549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, or maybe I could call it obsolete nowadays, but anyway. < 1253882560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was I calling anything obsolete? < 1253882575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is it just me, or was the C64 like super-obsolete before it came out??? < 1253882592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With three question marks and all. < 1253882595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, cause it was 3 years after the atari 400/800 and terribly similar < 1253882657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just being similar to products already on the market doesn't really mean obsolete; though certainly it wasn't terribly innovative on the tech side. < 1253882697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy tricks: < 1253882699 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In January 1983, Commodore offered a $100 rebate in the United States on the purchase of a C64 to anyone trading in another computer or video game console. To take advantage of this rebate, some mail-order dealers and retailers offered a Timex Sinclair 1000 for as little as $10 with purchase of a C64, so the consumer could send the TS1000 to Commodore, collect the rebate, and pocket the difference; Timex Corporation departed the marketplace within a year." < 1253882702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the tech was *old* < 1253882817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like the apple ii was the first coloured computer on the market < 1253882946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that politically correct? Shouldn't you say "a pigment-rich computer" or something? < 1253882970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253883183 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the c64 was amazing in terms of price/performance more than anything else < 1253883218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no, I don't think so < 1253883237 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the historical prices for it vs its competitors < 1253883253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atari 400 $549; .8MHz faster chip, 56KiB less base RAM, similar rest of specs... in 1979 < 1253883260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C64 only cost something like $150 to make < 1253883270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't anything special < 1253883305 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, look at the ram! < 1253883334 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cant compare 4-8k machine with 64k machines in terms of what they deliver < 1253883344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but ram dropped in price < 1253883357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is that the atari 400 wasn't wildly, wildly off base... three years ago < 1253883362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a particularly rapid period of computing history < 1253883374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed it shows, in that the C64 cost under 200 bux to make but they sold it for 500 < 1253883389 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :price when newly released is far from the most important < 1253883396 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machines had much longer life cycles then < 1253883410 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 8 bit era was most of the 80s for home users < 1253883414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gggggggggggggggggggggggggggg < 1253883416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1253883423 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out the price of the c64 vs its competition over its historical sale period < 1253883435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you're right. < 1253883444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chip kinda sucked though < 1253883447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even any multiplication < 1253883461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same 6502 everyone else had. :p < 1253883473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253883474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks < 1253883480 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think about 1984 was probably the high point for it, since then it was selling really cheap but there wasnt really anything superior in the home market until you got to stuff $1000 plus < 1253883643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I rather like Z80 more. At least it does 16-bit operations natively (you can pair up some of the 8-bit registers), and it's got a lot more registers; A, B, C, D, E, H, L compared to A, X, Y in the 6502. < 1253883661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I <3 the C128: it's got them both, built-in. < 1253883701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... dual processors? really? < 1253883718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, err... you can't run them simultaneously, of course. :p < 1253883722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1253883735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Z80 was there mostly for CP/M compatibility. < 1253883737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c64 demos run on the 6502, OS code runs on the Z80 watching it... < 1253883779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one memory bus, after all. < 1253883808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could share. < 1253883839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They already share with the display chip; three's a crowd, after all. < 1253883911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you think it'd be theoretically possible to run them both at once? < 1253883942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no logic on the motherboard to do bus arbitration, so not without some probably fairly extensive hardware mods. < 1253883988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1253883989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:< < 1253884092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sharing the memory bus with the VIC-II already halves the (theoretically 4 MHz) clock speed of the Z80; people did complain about the CP/M running slowly because of that. < 1253884108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2mhz is fine. < 1253884113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i want my damn OS cpu. < 1253884198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 2 MHz Z80 is (according to a rough estimate) equivalent to a 0.5 MHz 8502 (the 6502 clone in C128), since the latter does some pipelining. < 1253884218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because of the pipelined architecture of the 8502, a 1 MHz 8502 is approximately comparable in speed with a 4 MHz Z80. However, on the C128, the Z80 only runs at 4 MHz half the time giving an effective clock speed of 2 MHz. This means that the Z80 is only about half as fast as the 8502 (only about a fourth as fast when the 8502 is in 2 MHz mode)." < 1253884241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :task switching is fast dood :P < 1253884326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the C128 BIOS routines run on the 8502 even in CP/M mode; the Z80 writes arguments to some predefined memory location, wakes up the 8502 and halts; then the 8502 does the work, writes return values to memory, and wakes up the Z80 again. < 1253884366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really tell the 8502 to do things when a bitchin' demo is running < 1253884451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multitasking a *demo* and anything else doesn't really sound feasible, since those things are so very close to the hardware. Feel free to try, of course. < 1253884485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C64 demos, naturally. :P < 1253884503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's faster and stuff, you see. < 1253884514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But I'd need both chips whirring at once to do it. < 1253884522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise that demo will just shit all over everything. < 1253884596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no memory protection, shared interrupts with no routing, it will probably shit all over everything in any case, even if you could get the Z80 running too. (And the bus cycles lost to the Z80 would probably mess up all timing-related stuff in the demo.) < 1253884606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1253884616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ruin my hopes; dreams; mayonnaise avocado whip. < 1253884621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; pony shelter. < 1253884698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, while you're doing to necessary hardware hacking to get both CPUs running, you could add a kilobyte or so of Z80-only RAM and some sort of programmable logic chip to route interrupt lines; using that (and the C128 memory banking C64 demos probably don't expect) you might even get something done. < 1253884754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware hacking is sort of cheating, though. < 1253884755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also hard. < 1253884763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And warey. < 1253884770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... pony? < 1253884930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phony. < 1253884937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does warey even mean? < 1253885122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know. It sounds like the same thing as "wary". < 1253885159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ought to give me an unlimited reign of dictatorship over GNOME so I can fix the bad parts. < 1253885237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, for instance: My totally made-up-and-only-existing-inside-my-head Activities! < 1253885266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, the important part < 1253885269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that it'd all run on a C64. < 1253885285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes indeed. < 1253888170 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I seem to be constantly ballsing the interpreter up :-( < 1253888248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: paste the code, I'll try and nudge you in the right direction < 1253888264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like making stupid mistakes is an uncommon thing when writing a new type of program :) < 1253888272 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1253888336 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/nDJ2gxWr < 1253888375 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for putting up with me again :-) < 1253888417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: correct me if I'm wrong, but when you parse the ], you fail to do self.jump_map[last]=open_blah < 1253888422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., the ] to [ mapping < 1253888426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just assign the [ to ] mapping < 1253888440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, your ] doesn't look at jump_map < 1253888445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure how it's supposed to work < 1253888446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1253888458 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the top of the stack < 1253888462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: why the -1 in ]? < 1253888471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that executes the instruction before the [, no? < 1253888493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: also, as you currently have unbounded, signed cells > 0 is wrong < 1253888506 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, the instruction pointer is incremented regardless < 1253888509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be just if self.stack:; that is, if len(self.stack) != 0 < 1253888509 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.instruction_pointer+=1 # Regardless, we continue! < 1253888522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suggest you make cells wrap 256 < 1253888530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, I don't see an issue < 1253888537 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balls :-( < 1253888557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what goes wrong? < 1253888611 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can execute simple programs, but not those with nested loops, it appears < 1253888643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: I suggest you drop that stack, and merely assign the ] position to the [ position in the jump map. < 1253888648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then both [ and ] can use the jump_map. < 1253888670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reduces the number of concepts in the interpreter, and so should narrow down the problem. < 1253888853 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. I'll see what 'splodes :-) < 1253888867 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently my test suite fails on 4 of the 11 tests < 1253888889 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's more one large TestCase ... :-/ < 1253888917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you crazy beginning esolangers and yer test suites and yer three-piece bathroom suites < 1253888928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why in my day we called a buncha BF programs a shell script for loop < 1253888933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we LIKED it < 1253889120 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I considered that. But then I thought, might as well have nice verbose erroring. Also eclipse runs them all from a single hot-key < 1253889133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eclipse < 1253889138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are no longer welcome :| < 1253889158 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eclipse is good, once it's loaded (Assuming you have >2GB RAM available) < 1253889173 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my trusty thinkpad has 2GB! < 1253889178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a decidedly opposite world definition of good, quite so. < 1253889188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, one in the vicinity of "bad". < 1253889231 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my experience shows it to be stable and full of the features I like, at the expense of my RAM. It's not like I'd find any other usage for it. < 1253889265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, and i normally just have to correct one or two brain tumours in new recruits < 1253889265 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, code completion. < 1253889270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I can do a brain transpl-- < 1253889277 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :-D < 1253889285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. yes, that gigabyte of RAM Eclipse is using is entirely dedicated to code completion. < 1253889290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it. < 1253889317 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not true... it has to compile the java bytecode to a native executable and hold the MASSIVE resulting executable in RAM < 1253889331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has nobody to blame for this but itself. < 1253889334 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is code-completion < 1253889348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biggest brainfuck interpreter evar < 1253889352 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha, true < 1253889365 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can run my interpreter outside of eclipse < 1253889385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION huddles off with his assortment of text editors and REPLs, grumbling about darned kids and their bad coding
< 1253889404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can you still say "darned kids" if you're only old and cranky in spirit?) < 1253889426 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253889466 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly how old are you? < 1253889485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, down to the planck second? < 1253889494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know exactly what hour i was born. < 1253889498 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more accurate, if possible < 1253889499 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1253889505 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine... to the year will do :-p < 1253889508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 glibons and a half-quantum < 1253889517 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 gibbons? < 1253889523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hack the glibson. < 1253889533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's been 14 years since I was pushed out of that perfectly comfortable womb. < 1253889583 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough, I don't think you can say "darned kids" when you're younger than me < 1253889600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly what a darned kid would say. < 1253889608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to dissuade appropriate and well-applied criticism. < 1253889631 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 19! < 1253889640 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write code for a living and goto uni for fun! < 1253889643 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dannyturner.net < 1253889661 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-139-228.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253889672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: you solve project euler problems for a living? :P < 1253889674 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pay rent, gas, electric and water bills. < 1253889681 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dannyturner isn't my living < 1253889685 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my fun little outlet < 1253889702 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. what I do when I'm not studying/working < 1253889721 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my life consists of cycle to uni, work (often involving coding) < 1253889723 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return home < 1253889723 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat < 1253889727 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work for pay < 1253889733 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log some hours worked < 1253889745 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code for fun < 1253889746 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep < 1253889747 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wake < 1253889756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be more interesting if you were paid to solve project euler problems. < 1253889762 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would actually be awesome < 1253889784 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while ago, someone offered a £5,000 prize for completing the first 30 project euler problems in APL < 1253889800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? that's ridiculous < 1253889802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would so have done that < 1253889807 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language) < 1253889811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about APL < 1253889818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can program a little bit in J, which is similar enough < 1253889834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, that type of language is particularly well-suited to solving Project Euler problems concisely. < 1253889841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's a rather ridiculous prize. < 1253889862 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prize has already been claimed though < 1253889863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the first 30 are rather simple. < 1253889884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised, it probably took only a few hours in total :-P < 1253889915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's like 1k/hr ;P < 1253889916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1253889921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could type the pound on this damn keyboard < 1253889935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because I prioritise # doesn't mean I never want to talk about our currency :( < 1253889950 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, currency is overrated < 1253889956 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit karma is harder to come by. < 1253889982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno man, i got like 200 points on "I CAN SHARE CHEEZBURGR" way back. < 1253889995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless comment karma doesn't count < 1253890001 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally scrape like 8 on a good comment... < 1253890014 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link karma is /way/ harder to come by... :-/ < 1253890016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually get 1 these days :P < 1253890039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically all of my link karma comes from two submissions: < 1253890043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/71e5c/sketchpad_an_advanced_painting_program_from_1963/ < 1253890043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7nt8p/itunes_all_songs_drmfree/ < 1253890049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it matters. < 1253890062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd have gotten like 2x more on that latter one if I'd submitted it to /r/technology :P) < 1253890210 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253890320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there's anything like IDLE but with less gtk.
< 1253890322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm. < 1253890323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less tk. < 1253890325 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253890336 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, vim? < 1253890344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mainly the repl i'm after < 1253890354 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python < 1253890358 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in vim < 1253890371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: you realise that's the same as running python from a shell. < 1253890375 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even slightly cool: FAILED (failures=7) < 1253890376 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1253890389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find syntax highlighting useful and all. < 1253890390 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a read-eval-print-loop, so who cares? :-p < 1253890399 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim has syntax highlightinh < 1253890404 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*highlighting < 1253890405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in !python. < 1253890409 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1253890410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's just python in a shell. < 1253890422 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1253890436 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally just run tests from the shell, nothing big < 1253890451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits Tinned_Tuna with the Holy Stick of Incremental Development
< 1253890457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bonk* < 1253890458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bonk* < 1253890459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bonk* < 1253890463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider yourself hit. < 1253890474 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits ehird with the holy stick of Unit Testing
< 1253890479 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clang* < 1253890481 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clang* < 1253890482 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clang* < 1253890488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck kind of broke-ass stick goes clang. < 1253890497 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an aluminium baseball bat. < 1253890508 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's holy. < 1253890510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits Tinned_Tuna with the tinned tuna of expressive type systems such as Hindley-Milner
< 1253890513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thhpt* < 1253890514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thhpt* < 1253890515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thhpt* < 1253890525 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits ehird with Haskell
< 1253890528 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wrong type* < 1253890537 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFUUUUUUU.... < 1253890541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits Tinned_Tuna with Haskell
< 1253890543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*type classes* < 1253890548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*polymorphism* < 1253890555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SYB* < 1253890573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the fact that adding Haskell's type system actually increases expressibility, e.g. by letting you do more sandboxing* < 1253890585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ those are all onomatopoeic. < 1253890645 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253890745 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I still prefer python because I can do all the fun shit with mutating variables easily, explicit loops, full object orientation, but at the same time I could do something in quite a functional style. < 1253890757 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way < 1253890758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the same with Haskell. < 1253890760 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is slower :-( < 1253890762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is a great imperative language. < 1253890767 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only through monads, though? < 1253890782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a persistent belief among Haskell newbies that monads are some sort of added layer or kludge. < 1253890793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so. It's a very natural way to do imperative, and not a messy layer on top of the purity. < 1253890803 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is < 1253890807 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want monads < 1253890817 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want my messy impure stuff right there next to the pure stuff < 1253890835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that too, if you stay in IO to mark things as "this is imperative". < 1253890934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say that you don't want monads but I doubt that given a deeper understanding of Haskell you'd say that. The progression in a Haskell programmer's path seems to be "ok, this is simple" -> "WTF are monads? WTF are functors? What is this? Oh god..." -> "ok, well monads are ok for a bit of imperative stuff layered over the core as a neat trick to interact with the world using primarily your pure algorithms..." -> "oh, wait, monads are actually a powerful a < 1253890934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bstraction in their own right, and not just for IO, with lots of assorted categories... hmm..." -> "hey, these same abstractions are useful all over the place... and I can use the IO monad to my advantage, helping me rather than being bothersome" -> "<3 HASKELL BFF4LYF". < 1253890967 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253890991 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits ehird with python
< 1253890999 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved < 1253891000 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1253891045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're pikhq; then it goes "okay, this is pretty simple. makes sense, quite elegant." -> "okay, here's how we do IO. that's easy." -> "ah, a monad. hmm. oh, I see how this works with other concepts" -> "and applicatives and functors" -> "okay, I can write some stuff in Haskell now" -> "ah, now I understand what a monad really *is*, abstractly." -> "and applicatives. and functors." -> "HASKELL IS SUPREME GOD OF THE UNIVERSE". < 1253891056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With that whole progression lasting 7 days, literally.) < 1253891067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in the actual literal sense of literally, not the sense that means "not literally".) < 1253891075 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253891590 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1253891595 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You discussed Project Euler problems? < 1253891604 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention I solved the first one with CSS? (more or less) < 1253891717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253891927 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253891934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253891951 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253892420 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253892543 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Cascading Style Sheets? < 1253892549 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1253892559 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://etc.firefly.nu/css/euler-1.html <-- At least it works in O10 < 1253892590 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual selection is done with CSS, though it needs numbers to be stored in a certain format, to operate on (hence the JS) < 1253892655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0 tal; summa: 0". < 1253892659 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1253892665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gecko 1.9, epiphany something, and the browser is frozen. < 1253892667 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"466 tal; summa: 233168" < 1253892900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, gecko fails at everything :) < 1253892914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't freeze my browser now; same result, though. < 1253892968 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroimum doesn't even want to open the page, I just get a sad tab :\ < 1253892996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuck, Chromium on Linux. Horrible custom-drawn frame. < 1253893013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epiphany-WebKit is the future, I just wish they'd fix all the bugs in it that aren't in the Gecko version. :( < 1253893014 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful for testing stuff in webkit < 1253893026 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1253893026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Use Arora for that. < 1253893034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's extremely barebones. < 1253893115 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arora crashed upon entering the page :D < 1253893217 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure CSS isn't turing complete... < 1253893222 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I mistaken? < 1253893223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. < 1253893244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253893261 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253893273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, redundant nickstamps. < 1253893281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now my XChat-GNOME experience is not horrifying. < 1253893456 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSS2 isn't, at least < 1253893472 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But looking at CSS3 I'm getting more and more.. doubtful about that < 1253893821 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253894509 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253894575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION submits a bug to Ubuntu
< 1253895537 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253896018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd today... have that actually ever happened? < 1253896030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253896054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253896123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for less silly stuff that it is free from I guess? < 1253896129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1253896133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1253896146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link or something? < 1253896154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;yg. < 1253896159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Too lazy; you google.) < 1253896167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know what too goole for.... < 1253896176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asbestosfree? < 1253896245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no luck in googling. meh < 1253897112 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253897171 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B136469.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253897471 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? "Pasteurised homogenised semi-skimmed milk" contains milk? Who would have guessed... :-> < 1253897571 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cadbury Dairy Milk Chocolate Bars Contain Milk, Company Warns ... Unfortunately, that's not from the Onion. < 1253897623 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253898067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1253898152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: I've made a simple Bf interpreter in Python with the same sort of structure to yours to show how I'd do it < 1253898155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironing out the last bugs now... < 1253898814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: http://codepad.org/IcgSnL5m < 1253898834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow enough that it's painful to watch mandelbrot.b go by or wait for LostKng.b to respond, but it's cleanly written and works for most stuff. < 1253900057 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B136469.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253901433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck, ubuntu are moving me to epiphany-webkit < 1253901441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to say no :P < 1253901641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, the small font size issue. < 1253901681 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253901684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the address bar has an integrated progress bar, which is ugly and besides I need the status bar for anti-goatse purposes, so it might as well be used and be consistent with GNOME. < 1253901794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh! The fun doth not stop! If you disable the status bar and hover over a link it displays the URL in a small font in a gray-background box with a #000 border in the bottom-left, clashing with the curved window border. < 1253901812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This ugly, jerkily-appearing-and-disappearing splodge is presumably meant to be imitating Chrome. < 1253901816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, regression < 1253901858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, maybe I could make a custom stylesheet to fix the font size. < 1253902052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey WebKit, did you just render that with differing font antialiasing to my desktop while leaving the rest of the page correct? < 1253902058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you did! You did! < 1253902204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253902608 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253902626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it seems it Absolutely Refuses to put an Epiphany icon in the menus, no matter how many times I uninstall/install. < 1253902632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ya think this might be an alpha release? < 1253902716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I guess the awful Firefox it is, for now! You have vanquished me, alpha 6. < 1253902837 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253903480 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-217.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253904105 0 :coppro!n=coppro@csi.calgaryscientific.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253904127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253904350 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-169-194.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253904356 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253904371 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253905284 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90d32@gateway/web/freenode/x-ftdofbkulfhyneue JOIN :#esoteric < 1253905790 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253906038 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253906182 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Behold < 1253906229 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which witch watch which swatch watch? < 1253906252 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ding dong the witch is dead! < 1253906381 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253906509 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1253906893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Glade appears to be a relatively non-horrible interface for making resizable GUIs using a quite decent toolkit. < 1253906901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take that, every-other-toolkit-ever. < 1253906951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: UI only becomes decent when you change the widget selector to text only instead of hovering over every damn inscrutable icon.) < 1253907017 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes he had a lightsaber
< 1253907045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be completely unable to find the way to size a widget up to get a rough default width/height as opposed to keying in pixel values, though. < 1253907065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lightsabers: a more elegant UI designer, for a more civilized age. < 1253907091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just fucking cut the UI up to shape, man!" < 1253907099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We'll start with a block of raw interaction." < 1253907106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But... even the guild dilutes it nowadays..." < 1253907116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't give a damn what the guild does. Get your UIsaber out." < 1253907399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vbox containing a menu and an hbox containing 1. a vbox containing (1. (empty) 2. (empty)) 2. a vbox containing (1. (empty) 2. (empty)) < 1253907401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELEGANT SIMPLICIT < 1253907403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y < 1253907408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\nY/Y/ < 1253907712 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants cboxes
< 1253907750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they do? :P < 1253907816 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circular boxes! < 1253907840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow < 1253907998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish: hide gtk program scrollbars unless mouse at right side of screen where it would be or currently scrolling (e.g. with mouse, up/down etc) < 1253908366 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting idea < 1253908371 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never encountered that with any WM myself < 1253908380 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm not an esoteric WM user < 1253908446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the iphone does it :P < 1253908464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although obvs the scrollbar is nonfunctional, because any dragging you'd apply to it just applies to the document itself and works the same... < 1253908480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, the scrollbar is such a waste 90% of the time and adds quite a lot of visual clutter < 1253908487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hardly ever needed < 1253908499 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, pageup/down > scrollbar < 1253908504 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mousewheel < 1253908546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mousewheel is the best for slow movement, dragging the scrollbar swiftly to a position is best to get to a spot < 1253908567 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really long documents should have a ToC < 1253908579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really long documents should be split up. < 1253908583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: HTML encodes the ToC separately so that the browser can deisplay it independently < 1253908586 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*display < 1253908610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :html isn't really semantic despite claims so. < 1253908623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what the h1..h6 tags are for; the logical structure of the document. < 1253908632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also. < 1253908635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1253908659 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... wonder if it's possible to autogenerate a ToC with CSS... probably not < 1253908731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glade, please don't let it be so that you can't do "default height/width" yourself for widgets just like windows :( < 1253908739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to write stupid redundant code. < 1253908992 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253909078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1253909153 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I joined this channel, but I am posting on #anagol channel too < 1253909232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. irc lets you join multiple channels. < 1253909301 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course I know that. (But some servers has a limit) < 1253909325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/some/all/ < 1253909345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1253909361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not really a GTK (or any GUI) person, but I think only Gtk windows have a "default size"; Gtk widgets have a "size request" for "smallest size that will work well", and that you can specify in Glade in the properties. (Though not by draggery.) < 1253909377 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course there is a physical limit even if a limit has not been configured < 1253909392 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253909428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do said widgets default to that size, though? < 1253909438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, changing the requested size does not appear to be reflected in the glade window < 1253909448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a total crapshoot as to what it'll actually look like... < 1253909461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they won't get any smaller. They can easily get bigger, though, so it's not really a "default size" like that. < 1253909500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the default size isn't the reasonable minimum size, so that goes out of the door. < 1253909504 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. I now hate something new. But I can't tell you what it is. < 1253909517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you are perfectly physically capable of doing so < 1253909530 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MAY NOT tell you what it is. < 1253909536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're saying is you're choosing not to for whatever reason, and I can't think of anything this'd achieve apart from attention whoring < 1253909552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the "hur hur I'm in an agoran contract" style of attention whoring does not seem to exactly have wide appeal... < 1253909577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an Agoran contract < 1253909590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem to be shown in the Glade window here; but yes, it's just minimum-size. I'm not quite sure how you're supposed to behave if you want widgets that don't feel like growing huge. < 1253909596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then either an RFC declared you MAY NOT, or you're misusing terminology < 1253909634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: is it not not to do with lenovo < 1253909641 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not < 1253909644 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is to do with my job < 1253909649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode's channel limit is 21; strange number. (It's in the RFC2812 numeric the servers send; "CHANLIMIT=#&!+:21".) < 1253909651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your job at the fbi. < 1253909672 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an open-source library that is the new target of my ire < 1253909718 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Huh? I get "CHANLIMIT=#:20" on my computer. < 1253909749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh? Well, it might be different on different freenode servers, or alternatively my bouncer does something strange to it, though that sounds unlikely. < 1253909761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which freenode server are you on? < 1253909781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can find that out with /whois. < 1253909787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind, I was looking at the wrong row, the IRCnet line. :p < 1253909790 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you get this info? < 1253909806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the connection information. < 1253909811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, that clog before the MOTD. < 1253909821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- farmer.freenode.net hyperion-1.0.2b aAbBcCdDeEfFGhHiIjkKlLmMnNopPQrRsStTuUvVwWxXyYzZ01234569*@ bcdefFhiIklmnoPqstv < 1253909821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- IRCD=dancer CAPAB CHANTYPES=# EXCEPTS INVEX CHANMODES=bdeIq,k,lfJD,cgijLmnPQrRstz CHANLIMIT=#:20 PREFIX=(ov)@+ MAXLIST=bdeI:50 MODES=4 STATUSMSG=@ KNOCK NICKLEN=16 :are supported by this server < 1253909821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- SAFELIST CASEMAPPING=ascii CHANNELLEN=30 TOPICLEN=450 KICKLEN=450 KEYLEN=23 USERLEN=10 HOSTLEN=63 SILENCE=50 :are supported by this server < 1253909823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then, irc.tdc.fi has a strange channel limit. The freenode server indeed does CHANLIMIT=#:20. < 1253909824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The channel limit is on the 005 line sent to you upon sending username < 1253909915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there is no RFC keyword "MAY NOT"; RFC 2119 -- http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt -- specifies only "MUST", "MUST NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", "REQUIRED", "MAY" and "OPTIONAL". < 1253909969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", how did I drop those. < 1253909987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You SHALL NOT forget thos. < 1253909989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*those < 1253909991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVER AGAIN! < 1253910044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, I SHOULD NOT have forgotten those now either. (That is; there may exist valid reasons for forgetting, but "the full implications should be understood and the case carefully weighed before" forgetting.) < 1253910113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In Agora, that causes SHOULD to be defined recursively. < 1253910127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to carefully weigh up the implications of not (carefully weighing up the implications of not (... < 1253910143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait. < 1253910145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to. < 1253910147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just should. < 1253910149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before doing whatever it is. < 1253910156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's quite, err, empty. < 1253911225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253911328 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253911915 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253912555 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on a link in Hatena Diary, I have found a link to Google Squared, search "programming language". I tried adding a column "Color". According to Google, Eiffel is black, and function programming languages are green. < 1253912565 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/function/functional/ < 1253912653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is also black; it comes from the fact that "Hutchinson Python New Gen UST Tubeless Light Tire" is black. < 1253912661 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-195-167.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253912684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those sources are always so funny. < 1253912737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it says functional languages are blue; but green's also on the list of values. (Because some "multi-functional headset" cables are blue, but on the other hand a Cisco router has a green blinking LED when the software is "functional".) < 1253912827 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the pictures are not necessarily right either. I searched "chess variant", it came up with a list of chess variants but many of the pictures correspond to something else with the same name that has nothing to do with chess. < 1253912893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Price" is a good column; Visual Basic costs $65.98; Fortran £512.00; Python $107.20; Eiffel just $2.00; you can get Forth for $9.99; Haskell's $29.95; and functional programming languages are a whopping USD $795.00. < 1253912911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know Python costs over a hundred bucks. < 1253912989 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get Forth for $0.00 listed < 1253913068 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also tried searching "esolang" < 1253913095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes up with a proper list, but some of the descriptions are only part of a list of esolangs < 1253913106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is blue and Funge is red < 1253913132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it adds three columns "C Equivalent" "Meaning" "Appeared In" none of which have any values. < 1253913179 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog is also blue, at $106 < 1253913192 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has something which seems useful, "Usual File Extensions" but there is no values. < 1253913279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's interesting is: green is red, white is black, silver is yellow. (At least that's what I get when I build a Square of colors and add a "color" column.) < 1253913283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253913300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, violet is rated PG-13; purple and yellow are rated B; and green is rated at 8.3. < 1253913311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ranking, Rating and Configuration were the default columns.) < 1253913314 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253913339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ranking has no values, and configuration for green is "Choosing the Right Solution", while the config for silver is "6-cyl". < 1253913357 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get "Author", "Media Type", and "Isbn" as default columns. < 1253913376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Colors for other colors were #aabbcc RGB values which looked sensible.) < 1253913399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get yellow = yellow green, silver = white, white = black, blue = #0000ff < 1253913415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For red, green, and black it can't find colours < 1253913417 0 :k!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253913432 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For black it found the colour "Tesco H30 Colour Ink" but no color < 1253913445 0 :k!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest99872 < 1253913450 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1253913453 0 :Guest99872!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1253913473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got RGB values for yellow (#FFFF00), violet (#EE82EE), purple (#800080), brown (#A52A2A), magenta (#FF00FF) and lavender (#E6E6FA). < 1253913511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the image for "White" was the U.S. Department of Energy logo. < 1253913515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Violet = Violet Red < 1253913538 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purple = "Pink/", Brown = "Black," < 1253913549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magenta and lavender get the RGB here as well. < 1253913570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems the question of indigo is settled: Indigo = Blue < 1253913592 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253913612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mauve is black < 1253913633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grey is green, gray is black < 1253913639 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least "quark" gives correct descriptions when I add the correct items < 1253913648 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quarks are white. < 1253913679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253913724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Item Name: Quark. Image: [picture of the Quark character from Star Trek]. Description: "Quark Signs Distribution Agreement with DistributorX Inc.". And finally: Color: "yes". < 1253913737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it has a color. < 1253913738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes"? O_o < 1253913743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. So, it is a color film, then? < 1253913751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's from Wikipedia. :p < 1253913754 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protons have colour grey but color BLACK < 1253913761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electrons are blue < 1253913765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"color charge for Up quark" < 1253913771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Positrons are lime < 1253913788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neutrons are red < 1253913789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange/charm/top/bottom quarks language are English but up and down quarks there is no value for colors < 1253913796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sounds like a poem. < 1253913803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1253913818 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ya, now make up a poem from this < 1253913822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For "violets" it gives color white and colour "yellowish" < 1253913833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And roses are black < 1253913844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be an yellowish off-white color. < 1253913849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For violets, I mean. < 1253913896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roses are black, violets are yellowish, ... < 1253913981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sugar is Annona, and so are you. < 1253914015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Genus: Annona was the only column with a value in the "add these ten suggestions" columns for a single-row "sugar" square.) < 1253914015 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of something that'd rhyme with "yellowish" < 1253914017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one thing works, when I search "internet protocol", manually type in the names of the protocols, and add a "port number" column, it gives the correct answers. But "color" for HTTP gives a URL, and "Command" for "HTTP" is "yes" < 1253914061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sugar is salty, and so are fish? < 1253914132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed in the following protocols: HTTP, Gopher, FTP, Telnet, SMTP, WHOIS, POP3, SSH, IRC. The only column which is correct is the "port number" column. The other columns act crazy. < 1253914140 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253914318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a better way to express the idea of going down to the power of two right below you then: < 1253914330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 ^ (floor(log2(x)) < 1253914628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use some sort of supremum notation over the set of all powers of two that are less than (or equal, if you want) x, but I'm not sure that's very obviouser. Alternatively, you could use, you know, language. < 1253914715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253915230 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253915230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253916082 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253918046 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253918194 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253918994 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253920249 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-069-215.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253920976 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)