1251763877 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1251764250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You almost certainly have a virus and should reinstall your operating system."
< 1251764250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Blaming that guy's link is a lot easier than reinstalling my OS."
< 1251764250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So is jacking off in the USB port, but if there is a problem, neither of those things is going to fix it."
< 1251764251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— reddit
< 1251764929 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1251765409 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251765745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251765916 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251767102 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251767351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10594014 THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD NEVER SHOUT ON THE INTERNET
< 1251767961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sensible people avoid caps entirely, you know
< 1251768122 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251768341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'LL POP A CAPITAL LETTER IN YO ASS
< 1251768356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1251768404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef struct i{struct i*n;}i;i*h;push(i*i){i->n=h;h=i;}i*pop(){i*t;t=h;h=h->n;return t;}
< 1251768409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you referring to the story of the woman who was fired for using capital letters?
< 1251768418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: see logs.
< 1251768452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1251768458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, in reply to oerjan
< 1251768460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indirectly, yes.
< 1251768503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: stop commenting on reddit, you make my brain's look-at-reddit-names-and-pattern-match engine run
< 1251768508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's computationally intensive
< 1251768512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and takes ages to quit
< 1251768552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like reddit's javascript
< 1251768594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that would be IE's fault.
< 1251768598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: stop using IE
< 1251768604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1251768644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1251768645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ THIS IS YOUR FAULT :-
< 1251768645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1251768649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've mostly given up expanding loading comment subthreads with more than a handful of comments. although that is not _necessarily_ a bad thing.
< 1251768667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-expanding
< 1251768726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs oerjan repeatedly with the Ancient Staff of http://www.google.com/chrome
< 1251768736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM STABBING YOU
< 1251768741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1251768755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my splanch
< 1251768790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR SPLANCH WILL HURT UNTIL YOU STOP EVERY PERSON WHO HAS EVER MADE ANYTHING FOR THE WEB HURTING
< 1251768798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO ANYONE WHO HAS EVER READ ABOUT IE'S RENDERING MODEL
< 1251768818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splanch IS AN ODD THING TO HURT
< 1251768836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it's actually an iwc reference
< 1251768855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS THINKING THAT "SPLANCH" WAS A VEGETABLE IN NORWEIGAN OR SOMETHING
< 1251768861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NORWEGIAN
< 1251768869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW DO YOU WANT TO STOP HURTING OR NOT
< 1251768871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. norwegian uses very little c's.
< 1251768877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*YOUR SPLANCH TO STOP HURTING
< 1251768891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as h's at the end of words
< 1251768930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spinach is spinat, for example
< 1251768966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP TALKING YOU CANNOT TALK COHERENTLY BECAUSE I AM STABBING YOU
< 1251768987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i will not be of the at in the future
< 1251769001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coherentlywise
< 1251769022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT I AM STABBING YOU WITH? IT IS THE ANCIENT STAFF OF http://www.google.com/chrome
< 1251769052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i summon GregorR to help me, as he is against all things chrome
< 1251769074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://firefox.com/
< 1251769082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOBODY IS AGAINST CUTE RED PANDAS
< 1251769084 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH MY SKIN
< 1251769099 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/chromates.jpg LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO ME
< 1251769109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: sorry, rub some firefox/red panda all over you
< 1251769114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll help
< 1251769120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why did I click that having seen it before?
< 1251769141 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha
< 1251769145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't click, remembering having been wise enough not to click it before
< 1251769158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT CLICKING http://firefox.com/ IS NEVER A BAD IDEA!
< 1251769174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMM
< 1251769192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU USE IE, SOME OF GREGOR'S JAVASCRIPT FUNTIMES LIKE THE CPU EMULATORS MIGHT NOT WORK!!!
< 1251769197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SURELY THAT WOULD CONVINCE ANYWONE
< 1251769198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1251769199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYONE, ALSO
< 1251769206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shall have to hunt down and kill ehird in a painful way for his horrible strong opinions, now
< 1251769223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kindly suggest that you try alternate browsers such as Google Chrome or Firefox!
< 1251769239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Konqueror or Epiphany?
< 1251769258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or zzo's browser, Conqueror (I think)
< 1251769264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: konqueror is shit
< 1251769273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonkeror?
< 1251769274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not really available for windows
< 1251769279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epiphany is only available for Gnome
< 1251769279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes
< 1251769283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uses WebKit anyway
< 1251769297 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'd still consider those alternate browsers
< 1251769298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonkeror is zzo's awful, awful modification of Conkeror, which is based on firefox but uses keyboard shortcuts
< 1251769300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of buttons
< 1251769305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you fail at reading.
< 1251769376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my task, clearly, is to keep using awful solutions so as to help with ehird's anger therapy
< 1251769379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "such as" does not imply that the options you provided are the only options
< 1251769407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes; in addition, "alternate browsers" does not necessarily mean all alternate browsers.
< 1251771666 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot"
< 1251771923 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-099-248.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251771952 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251772001 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251772681 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251773196 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251773601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Researchers developing OLEDs as cheap as newspapers?"
< 1251773603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
< 1251773605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My heart warms.
< 1251774212 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251774662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello oklofok.
< 1251774667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you heard about JESUS?
< 1251774694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean madonna's boyfriend?
< 1251774708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is EVERYONE's boyfriend
< 1251774711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because he LOVES EVERYONE
< 1251774722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm won't madonna be pissed about that
< 1251774750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he's very polyamorous.
< 1251774916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i must have imagined it, wikipedia's article on madonna does not contain the word "jesus"
< 1251774949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because the article for EVERY person would say Jesus!
< 1251774977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1251775000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's briefly mentioned on the talk page though
< 1251775607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes what the oldest files on his computer are likely to be
< 1251775678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2009/jan/03/meme/
< 1251775682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's a script for that"
< 1251775752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you
< 1251775763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ei scriptum est
< 1251775795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ei app that
< 1251775797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1251775798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ei app est
< 1251775803 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251775803 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251775803 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251775803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can manually exclude OS files
< 1251775806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple should do all their ads in latin
< 1251775808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd be so much more fun
< 1251775819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would the OS files likely be when the system was reformatted and set up again?
< 1251775827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Maybe.
< 1251775828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just try it.
< 1251775833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop asking questions. :P
< 1251775848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try it tomorrow. The computer in question is currently off
< 1251775903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know what "I'm a Mac. And I'm a PC." is in Latin? :P
< 1251775909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better would be if I found my disc that had favorites from before "chat" Crash
< 1251775937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("chat" Crash == when I lost all information from my computer because I installed some chat server software, and my dad got paranoid and forced me to reformat)
< 1251775964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you not have your own computer or sth
< 1251775964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac sum, et PC ?
< 1251775972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's two separate lines
< 1251775973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this was from when I was much younger
< 1251775974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different people
< 1251775976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ah
< 1251775980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it happened in 2002-2003
< 1251776034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps earlier. I do believe there was definately a crash in 2002-2003. I learned of the FRC before the Chat Crash, and I was interested in the FRC in 2003
< 1251776049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes there is some special conjunction that should be used instead of "et"
< 1251776053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1251776062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would "Mac sum." "Et PC." preserve the spirit of the "and" from the original, though?
< 1251776073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were no Crashes after August 2003. Knowing the oldest file would push the boundary earlier.
< 1251776085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe.
< 1251776089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ary//
< 1251776098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i don't really have a feel for latin _style_
< 1251776104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You suck :P
< 1251776154 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mac sum et pc
< 1251776162 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251776162 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251776162 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251776164 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be "i am a pc and a mac" surely
< 1251776183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: :D
< 1251776191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorbeo :(
< 1251776253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have two disconnected HDs sitting around. I wonder what's on them.
< 1251776341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. seem to have misplaced one of them
< 1251776373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sorbeo? :(
< 1251776398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found it
< 1251776432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sorbeo#Latin
< 1251776455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh exploitable!
< 1251776478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1251776490 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least one of these bookmarks dates to around 2003
< 1251776490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, the obvious?
< 1251776546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, when did I first enter #esoteric ?
< 1251776575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the olden days, when the world was new
< 1251776629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I have a bookmark labelled "NetHack 3.4.1"
< 1251776637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it must date from before 3.4.2 was released
< 1251776664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..31 Aug 2003
< 1251776698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Aren't you quite recent here
< 1251776707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think so
< 1251776711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know when
< 1251776713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, like, after 2006
< 1251776721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess sometime after 2005
< 1251776721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I was here when you first came
< 1251776777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda wish I was a little less stupid around 2002-2003, because cool stuff seems to have happened then.
< 1251776783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just my weird sense of nostalgia talking, though.
< 1251776909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox release dates don't help pinpoint an earlier bound
< 1251777373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe that this site is still paying for hosting/domain name/etc
< 1251777376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You need IE 4.0 or higher to play it."
< 1251777380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.1000ad.net/thegame/
< 1251777385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Copyright Ader Software 2000-2002
< 1251777652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.1000ad.net/ is still sort of updated, so.
< 1251777658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(last updated 2007, although updates are very sparse)
< 1251777672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Domains cost like $10/yr, pair with autorenew and say, using it for email...
< 1251780060 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1251780500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit what is this /r/DoesAnybodyElse thing and how do they manage to spy on me
< 1251780508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1251780513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spy on you how
< 1251780525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:?
< 1251780528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oerjan: ?
< 1251780533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just came up on the default list today
< 1251780548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's automatic.
< 1251780550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that was a joke
< 1251780553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guessed
< 1251780555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checkin
< 1251780559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*checkin', even
< 1251780564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :important to be precise about these things
< 1251780585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do at least 3 of the top 10
< 1251780790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/DoesAnybodyElse/comments/9g0zj/dae_sometimes_stare_into_their_own_eyes_in_the/ ;; agh I do this
< 1251780797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it literally looks like a demon is coming out
< 1251780806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some horrible black thing will appear next to me
< 1251780902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DAE have a life that is better than prison or internment camps but you still wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy?"
< 1251780903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sob sob cut cut.
< 1251781025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, and yes...
< 1251781046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wut?
< 1251781063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a note not to stare into the mirror
< 1251781084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which were those no/yeses to
< 1251781088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, try it!
< 1251781089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1251781124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've only listed two...
< 1251781139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but which do they correspond to, i mean i don't see you as the "woe is me" type :P
< 1251781172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a very fluctuating mood
< 1251781229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i find it completely impossible to accept that suffering exists in the universe _at all_
< 1251781236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you appear to be alive and browse reddit and IRC about, uhh, random stuff
< 1251781245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a pretty cushy life, relatively :P
< 1251781259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, impossible to accept = tolerate or... believe
< 1251781266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tolerate
< 1251781267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because err it's pretty easy to come up with a counterexample :P
< 1251781277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what if we killed all the unhappy people?
< 1251781279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work
< 1251781310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blows a gasket
< 1251781319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: THIS CHANNEL IS PG-13
< 1251781345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define gasket
< 1251781346 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* seal consisting of a ring for packing pistons or sealing a pipe joint \ [23]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * In sailing, gaskets are lengths of rope or fabric used to hold a stowed sail in place. In modern use, the term is usually restricted to square-rigged ships, the equivalent items on yachts being
< 1251781380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define blow a gasket
< 1251781381 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* To become very angry or upset \ [13]en.wiktionary.org/wiki/blow_a_gasket \
< 1251781385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we have it, a gasket is a seal
< 1251781393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greenpeace will be very upset
< 1251781396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone probably shut a VR online game Sgeo played in 2003
< 1251781399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :down
< 1251781408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1251781472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that failed. Good night, all
< 1251781477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wut?
< 1251781497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was hoping that the person saying that The Guild S3 would be released midnight PDT was wrong
< 1251781498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E wasn't
< 1251781506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noooooooooooooooooo?
< 1251781553 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1251781704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1251782360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1251782669 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251783614 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251783909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you're redundant
< 1251784070 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... couldn't disagree more
< 1251784079 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNIVERSITY STARTS
< 1251784083 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN 13 MINUTES :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
< 1251784085 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
< 1251784087 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
< 1251784089 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::dDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
< 1251784091 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::dDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
< 1251784093 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::dDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
< 1251784095 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
< 1251784099 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a good thing.
< 1251784100 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1251784115 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-
< 1251784124 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you want to bask in the awesomeness too?
< 1251784237 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're such a useless piece of pie
< 1251784238 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1251784364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you're a bitch.
< 1251784390 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-
< 1251784394 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total unfolded bitch
< 1251784398 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't find my moneys :<
< 1251784455 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmmm automata theory, i'll probably start touching myself during the lecture
< 1251784895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: moneys are touching
< 1251784902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what you must not know
< 1251785630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doodle doodle i'm a poodle
< 1251786192 0 :ehirdium!n=Adium@91.105.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251786200 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hallo.
< 1251786217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1251786231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdium: hi
< 1251786243 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, that works well.
< 1251786249 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes
< 1251786250 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y
< 1251786254 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, right
< 1251786256 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh yes
< 1251786256 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1251786270 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Received CTCP 'DCC CHAT chat 1077849409 10079' (to ehirdium) from EgoBot"
< 1251786271 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So close, so close.
< 1251786370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo -rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n"
< 1251786371 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n"
< 1251786373 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo -rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n"
< 1251786375 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n"
< 1251786377 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1251786381 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Uhh, no, not going to work.
< 1251786387 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw
< 1251786390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got EgoBot to quit before
< 1251786391 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh echo a; echo b
< 1251786391 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1251786396 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo a; echo b
< 1251786397 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a \ b
< 1251786402 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!run echo a; echo b
< 1251786404 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rest goes in dcc)
< 1251786407 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1251786409 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo a; echo b
< 1251786409 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1251786410 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh echo -rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n"
< 1251786411 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1251786416 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, coppro
< 1251786419 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it handles multiple lines
< 1251786426 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw
< 1251786427 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a fucking capability-based security wrapper in a chroot
< 1251786431 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think it's not gonna handle lines?
< 1251786432 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1251786442 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdium: you never know
< 1251786469 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhoo, I conclude adium is not quite an acceptable IRC client yet
< 1251786470 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1251786555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a key on my keyboard that is labelled "Ha! You referenced xkcd! You are clearly a funny, culturally relevant and intelligent person."
< 1251786563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It types itself, just like the letter keys. I find it is about as useful.
< 1251786870 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251786928 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251787045 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boo hiss* Bash 3.2 needed for Bashfunge :-P
< 1251787070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, bash 4 is out.
< 1251787078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not retire to your cave where everything works with ancient software?
< 1251787081 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, I know ... what's your point? ;-)
< 1251787088 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 2002 is so ancient (sarcasm)
< 1251787098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes it is, in computing.
< 1251787124 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ 98? standard ... C99? standard
< 1251787139 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, its teh old !!
< 1251787146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wherein Rugxulo compares the standards of huge languages with releases of a shell program.
< 1251787166 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very very complicated shell program
< 1251787180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, bash is very very complicated
< 1251787185 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very
< 1251787193 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you looked at its guts? ugh ...
< 1251787216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was RMS involved?
< 1251787245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RMS' eaten toe-pickings were!
< 1251787256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*RMS's. Trailing apostrophes are dumbtarded.
< 1251787262 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, just tried Bashfunge on Cygwin, seems to work okay
< 1251787270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick! Somebody break it!
< 1251787310 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if RMS was involved in coding bash, I have no need to look at it to know how awful it is
< 1251787310 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, anything implementing Befunge 93 is cool :-)
< 1251787322 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, AFAIK, RMS never worked on Bash ;-)
< 1251787327 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is not pretty code
< 1251787343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (its (just_like (lisp), when_you (code_it_like_this)))
< 1251787344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {
< 1251787346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rejoice ();
< 1251787347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : }
< 1251787374 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how Bash-centric Bashfunge is (e.g. would it work on other shells)
< 1251787385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1251787391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe zsh, but that's quite unlikely.
< 1251787400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(zsh is awesome, btw.)
< 1251787426 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in ksh?
< 1251787434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, almost certainly not.
< 1251787483 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought you said "109" was the latest ... then why does Bashfunge say "Befunge08" ??
< 1251787504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because:
< 1251787514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) 109 isn't released yet and nobody else supports it, and
< 1251787520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) bashfunge is old. 08 is the old name of 108 and 109.
< 1251787548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bashfunge is also too slow to do anything in, it takes something like half an hour to run Mycology.
< 1251787558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run fungot on it, that'll be a laugh.
< 1251787559 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i shall help also. we must now carry out his sentence. hold your horses! i want to dance! ladeedadeeda! got some spending so much of his time doing research on lavos. but you have it...determination, i mean...
< 1251787566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can dance, fungot.
< 1251787567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can dance.
< 1251787574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1251787574 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1251787576 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too slow? even on Core i7? (older is obsolete, upgrade now!!!)
< 1251787610 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody writing in Bash should expect a small performance decrease ;-)
< 1251787614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly, a shiny new CPU with like 20% performance improvements does not alleviate the crippling slowness of bash and bashfunge.
< 1251787614 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still cool, though
< 1251787629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: also, if you do have a core i7, enjoy your non-ECC supporting platform.
< 1251787651 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECC es fur wamps, I dun't neid et
< 1251787664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION flips some bits in Rugxulo's memory
< 1251787834 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-19.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251787930 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251788360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1251788540 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, Language-Befunge seems to hate Cygwin (or my install, at least) :-P
< 1251788691 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, know of any Brainf*** interpreters in Befunge?
< 1251788728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bashfuck, for one.
< 1251788730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's rather trivial.
< 1251788733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can say fuck.
< 1251788751 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for unlawful carnal knowledge ... hooray for me ;-)
< 1251788771 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sings, "Home grown, down home ..."
< 1251788865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at his Miscellaneous Pile of Overly-Specific Certificates, finds no Certificate of Liking Terrible Music, leaves disappointed
< 1251788920 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found a Befunge98 one, wanted a 93 one :-/
< 1251788941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you said in Befunge.
< 1251788948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Befunge93 is not TC.
< 1251788970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cannot even do the 30,000 baseline cells that a lot of programs need and the original interpreter used.
< 1251788979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1251788997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one good enough for "Hello world" and similarly simple stuff should be doable
< 1251789009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do it
< 1251789219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hi
< 1251789269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was this the person you lied about cfunge a few days ago?
< 1251789273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge to*
< 1251789286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, for some definition of "lie" equal to "things I disagree with because I wrote it".
< 1251789294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, sure, evil commie lies, AnMaster.
< 1251789331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah, but you are actually wrong. cfunge is currently the fastest one. And several people in here use it. fizzie for example for fungot
< 1251789332 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cyrus! are you leaving! it's cyrus! run away for now!
< 1251789338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that irc bot :P
< 1251789342 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, one chat and ehird already hates me ;-)
< 1251789343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, wrong about what?
< 1251789351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever deny that cfunge is the fastest interpreter?
< 1251789351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ah :)
< 1251789356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever deny that several people in here hate it?
< 1251789363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rugxulo: Did I ever say that I hate you?)
< 1251789366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, s/hate/love/
< 1251789380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, s/hate/use/
< 1251789380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the line "several people in here"
< 1251789386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1251789392 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251789409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I never claimed any of those things false, so uhh, I don't see what the hell you're trying to say other than "stop saying cfunge is bad, meanie".
< 1251789421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway, about cygwin: I don't have windows handy to test with. But cygwin is your best bet for cfunge if you need to use it on windows
< 1251789446 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said (and I'm almost quoting verbatim), "Eww, you use old software, Emacs, and Windows ... can I stab you?"
< 1251789463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that is not "almost verbatim"
< 1251789466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yep, I was totally serious about stabbing you
< 1251789469 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm sure you meant that in a loving way ;-)
< 1251789477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to actually be wherever you are and stab you so that you bleed.
< 1251789478 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lovey-dovey kind of stab, y'know
< 1251789480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And die. That is what I think
< 1251789484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I remember that basic things like getting environment variables didn't just work as expected under windows :/
< 1251789493 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin?
< 1251789501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well that is worth a try as I said
< 1251789549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly doubt cfunge will work on cygwin.
< 1251789574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, if it lacks mmap() you could rewrite the file loading part to use getc() or something. I use mmap() because it is faster (I profiled) and easier as well
< 1251789636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the build system would need a prod to not error out when mmap() is missing as well, but that would be as trivial as commenting out a line or two in CMakeLists.txt
< 1251789675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, but I guess cygwin *does* have mmap() right?
< 1251789716 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1251789729 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, found another "Brainf*** in Befunge"
< 1251789757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, why are you stuck on windows though? Hardware issues?
< 1251789831 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta ... none of the *nixes I tried really worked too well (not that Windows is perfect, though)
< 1251789832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he likes it
< 1251789840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least that's what he said yesterday
< 1251789841 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I like DOS, I tolerate Windows
< 1251789847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1251789848 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I said :-)
< 1251789852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/shrug
< 1251789857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1251789859 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big difference :-P
< 1251789887 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hmmm, that Brainf***-in-Befunge may need "arbitrary bignums in the stack")
< 1251789900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, so you want no memory protection, a pain to use memory above 640K, ...?
< 1251789926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what Brainf*** requires
< 1251789932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know that Brainfuck normally uses 8-bit cells
< 1251789934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an unbounded tape
< 1251789951 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, DPMI -> DJGPP = works!
< 1251789963 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251789964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93: 8 bit playfield, 32 bit stack cells iirc
< 1251789966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only Funge-98 has provisions for bignum cells, and even then only awkwardly.
< 1251789968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it the reverse?
< 1251789978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 requires same size
< 1251789990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes there is one bignum one at least
< 1251790001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just mentioned that because you wrote it.
< 1251790002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1251790007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try my efunge, needs erlang installed. Should probably work under windows. But I never tried it
< 1251790039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aand predictable as clockwork
< 1251790041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, DPMI?
< 1251790064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1251790073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that was a question: "what is that"?
< 1251790084 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is DPMI?
< 1251790084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/"?/?"/
< 1251790085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the protected-mode-in-DOS thing.
< 1251790090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok
< 1251790110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it something you load with that config.sys thingy?
< 1251790114 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, standard stuff, works in OS/2 2+, Win 3+, DOS w/ extender, etc.
< 1251790126 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CWSDPMI ring a bell?
< 1251790139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, nop
< 1251790142 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Quake 1 used it)
< 1251790155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or DOS/4GW, which I think is what Watcom's compilers used.
< 1251790155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used mac before I changed to xp for a few years, then to linux
< 1251790167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have like no contact ever with dos world ;P
< 1251790194 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfenstein 3D = 16-bit Borland C
< 1251790201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doom 1 & 2 = 32-bit Watcom C
< 1251790207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quake 1 = 32-bit DJGPP C
< 1251790208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1251790245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, not portable between compilers even? ;P
< 1251790245 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever heard of Ardi's Executor (Mac emulator)?
< 1251790253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, nop
< 1251790256 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPMI isn't related to compilers, it's an API
< 1251790292 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/doc/dpmi/
< 1251790326 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://clio.rice.edu/
< 1251790372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would have been more interesting if I had any nostalgia about DOS ;P
< 1251790382 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, typically most (non-DJGPP) apps were never written for DPMI "only", they expected the unofficial, undocumented 32-bit int 21h extensions
< 1251790390 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(partially supported by some Watcom extenders)
< 1251790403 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I know, if you never were familiar with DOS, it wouldn't matter
< 1251790411 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trust me, it works, Quake 1 sold fine ;-)
< 1251790429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ok. Tell me when you have a 64-bit extender for it ;P
< 1251790440 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1251790441 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU works on x86-64, that's as close as you can get
< 1251790444 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for now)
< 1251790451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1251790460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I meant 64-bit DPMI
< 1251790464 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs *almost* native speed (due to no V86 mode has to emulate a very small portion)
< 1251790468 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know ...
< 1251790477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't say that whole skedaddle with a real-mode operating system and protected-mode applications was exactly *elegant*, no matter how well it might've worked.
< 1251790486 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP is extremely elegant
< 1251790492 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251790498 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worse than using GCC on Linux
< 1251790504 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very stable
< 1251790507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you mean fork() { errno = ENOTIMPLEMENTED; return; }
< 1251790508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1251790512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1251790516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251790524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which will break at least parts of cfunge btw)
< 1251790527 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork is not implemented because most DOSes (and compatibles) don't support it
< 1251790530 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251790537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, exactly
< 1251790541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if my IRC client didn't crash
< 1251790547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I was going to say
< 1251790547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mine doesn
< 1251790550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't*
< 1251790550 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMX/RSX (whole other extender + DPMI) emulates fork, though, but DJGPP is miles better in most other ways
< 1251790561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: DJGPP isn't elegant at all...
< 1251790565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Thank you, I care deeply
< 1251790569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about your IRC client
< 1251790581 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1251790588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I use two ones: xchat and ERC
< 1251790598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither crash
< 1251790600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm on ERC
< 1251790601 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Novell (DR-)DOS 7 supports multitasking, but nobody ever bothered writing anything for it
< 1251790606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster! Tell me more about all your IRC clients!
< 1251790610 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is also on ERC
< 1251790613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1251790618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so interested in what IRC client you use and how you use it. Tell me a story about your IRC client!
< 1251790630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I'd like you to do that every time I mention my IRC client. Oh wait, you do...
< 1251790636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you haven't slept tonight right?
< 1251790638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go do so
< 1251790681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What on earth has my absolute boredom with you continually mentioning your and how awesome it is whenever mine does something displeasing got to do with that?
< 1251790689 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I don't expect it to matter, but DJGPP does have latest ports of VIM, Emacs, GCC (though not Bash)
< 1251790689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's irritating. Stop it.
< 1251790699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, heh....
< 1251790711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in your dreams
< 1251790715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Once upon a time, in an IRC client far, far away..."
< 1251790730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and you get so very anti-social when you didn't sleep
< 1251790741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I like about my IRC client: It has a feature that lets people stop talk to me without having to have it solely in dreams.
< 1251790754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, you just like coming up with excuses whenever I dislike you.
< 1251790759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, my clients have /ignore too
< 1251790765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when you implied that me using Linux instead of OS X made me nicer...
< 1251790768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would say the reverse
< 1251790776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yes it did
< 1251790788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the effect wore off if you are using linux now
< 1251790796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but back then it did
< 1251790805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ladies 'n gents, AnMaster thinks what OS I am currently using to talk on IRC is directly related to whether I'm kind or not.
< 1251790811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please welcome this master of self-delusion.
< 1251790822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1251790849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get quite.... self-delusional... yourself when you didn't sleep
< 1251790873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, *ignores ehird*
< 1251790886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you just directly stated that and now you're denying it?
< 1251790890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X
< 1251790941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps he's just using "I don't like what you're saying" as a catch-all disproof of everything I've said, regardless of whether he said it first or not... The mind boggles.
< 1251791064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind boggles or boggles the mind? ^_^
< 1251791080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you can write a Boggle clone in Befunge ... heh j/k
< 1251791113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo,
< 1251791113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1251791114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1251791116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell
< 1251791125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard failure
< 1251791130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1251791137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I tried to write was "Boggle"?
< 1251791147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow my space key locked up
< 1251791155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other /ignores AnMaster has executed recently: /ignore Google
< 1251791277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, so you use Linux and/or OS X?
< 1251791288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD
< 1251791297 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Linux?
< 1251791320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, Gentoo, Arch and currently also Ubuntu on laptop (because there I need things to just work)
< 1251791325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, have you heard of shasm/osimplay? ;-)
< 1251791337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shasm/osimplay <-- no clue what that is
< 1251791357 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's a no :-)
< 1251791365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Forth-ish x86 assembler written in Bash)
< 1251791365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, tell me what it is
< 1251791368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1251791375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, there was some bashforth I remember
< 1251791407 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251791758 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, have you programmed in Forth before?
< 1251791787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no, I haven't really had time to learn it, and currently I don't expect to have it soon either, what with just having started at university
< 1251791884 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17, 18?
< 1251791914 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might explain the lack of DOS nostalgia ;-)
< 1251791952 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION regales everyone about ye olden days of GCC 2.7.2.1
< 1251791954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, 19
< 1251791965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and I used redhat 5.0 ;P
< 1251791970 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like I'm super old either, only just turned 30 ;-)
< 1251791999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1251792000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251792000 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, in Befunge, 3:9*+
< 1251792004 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-)
< 1251792020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ (* 9 3) 3)
< 1251792061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some would just say 65*.
< 1251792076 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touche
< 1251792080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what would Deewiant's constant-builder say?
< 1251792081 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad
< 1251792086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 30
< 1251792086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30: 2 3 5
< 1251792117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A funge-98 programmer would probably say 3a*.
< 1251792124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes
< 1251792137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, from the viewpoint of the channel, 30 sounds quite ancient.
< 1251792149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about oerjan?
< 1251792151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that, like, a bit before death?
< 1251792174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't oerjan old?
< 1251792174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea about oerjan's age, I assume it is considerable.
< 1251792196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is like 38.
< 1251792206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seen the stars born and so on.
< 1251792212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience is 39 iirc, or at least I asked if he was like 40 and he said something along the lines of almost
< 1251792224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251792225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you suggesting he _is_ a great old one?
< 1251792233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aren't you like 30-something, I remember someoneorother saying that, though they could just be bullshitting me
< 1251792249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[08:03] ehird: nescience is 39 iirc, or at least I asked if he was like 40 and he said something along the lines of almost
< 1251792250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ i meant mycroftiv, not nescience
< 1251792252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I guess it depends on your rounding mode, 26 nowadays.
< 1251792256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell happened to wxmaxima after updating it....
< 1251792272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're like a bit before a bit before death!
< 1251792276 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never. update. anything.
< 1251792294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, interface completely changed
< 1251792307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interface being redefined?
< 1251792308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also of course I keep things up-to-date. It is painless usually on linux
< 1251792309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*redesigned
< 1251792310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unheard of.
< 1251792311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike on windows
< 1251792317 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite painless
< 1251792338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: what he's trying to say is "You use Windows and I disapprove of this"
< 1251792341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well on gentoo it is just tedious. But often more painless than binary distros. :P
< 1251792349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facts don't really enter into it
< 1251792431 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all the same hardware, so in theory any OS can do anything
< 1251792433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the line editing history feature is gone... meh
< 1251792436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in theory)
< 1251792469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, since gentoo compiles packages from source when you install them, ABI breakages tends to hurt less... just recompile affected packages.
< 1251792472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is easy
< 1251792488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of being rather complex like on many other distros
< 1251792493 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, I wouldn't call it easy ... even if automatic, too many things can go wrong
< 1251792504 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it works well, 100% of the credit goes to the script maintainers
< 1251792518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, in my experience those things doesn't go wrong. And yes credit goes to the portage maintainers
< 1251792525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ebuild maintainers
< 1251792542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(portage = the package manager, ebuilds = the build scripts)
< 1251792593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I think I can get used to this new interface. In fact parts of it is cool. Just I miss shell style line editing and history
< 1251793280 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-nmcmvimsiymsomif JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251793733 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1251794302 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251794544 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251794827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[symbolics.com, the first domain name ever registered, has been bought by a "real estate and domain investment company."]]
< 1251794846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbolics.com Was The FIRST Registered Domain Name!
< 1251794846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—http://www.symbolics.com/, "Symbolics: It all started here".
< 1251794850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sad, sad event.
< 1251794864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't have done that, David K Schmidt.
< 1251794867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was bad.
< 1251794913 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251794934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are a bad person.
< 1251794959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your actions are bad and you should feel bad.
< 1251795003 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so tell us how you really feel, don't be shy ;-)
< 1251795011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly it isn't even the oldest domain, just the oldest .com and the oldest still-registered domain.
< 1251795015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: He did a bad thing! :P
< 1251795036 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(singing) "David did a bad bad thing" (ba dum da dum de dum de dum)
< 1251795075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cgi.ebay.com/SYMBOLICS-DOMAIN-NAME-TEL-SEXY-HOT-MATURE-RARE-LOGO_W0QQitemZ220437152045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item335314012d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_11186wt_1167
< 1251795075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow! For only $21,000,000 I can buy symbolics.tel with free shipping! It even has a picture of Bama!
< 1251795078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Obama
< 1251795111 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fairness, it IS sexy, hot, and mature ;-)
< 1251795121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis muchly so!
< 1251795157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, when the seller's name, 10qvrymuch, is pronounced quickly, it sounds like the pronunciation of "thank you very much"! WILL THE WONDERS EVER CEASE?????????
< 1251795665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251796598 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251796791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i have determined that you do not exist.
< 1251797018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toli Toli Toli Toli Toli
< 1251797664 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1251798004 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251798110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That reminds me of a quote: https://pastee.org/gf9w2
< 1251798137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I really need to click that link to be reminded of a famous h2g2 quote? :P
< 1251798226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like the quotes have unique identifiers I could use to refer to them.
< 1251798272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Finnish translation has the vanishing bit formatted as (retranslating back to English literally) "vanishes like an irrational fart in the Sahara of logic".
< 1251798334 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251799790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251800331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought: domain names are probably economically unscarce
< 1251800756 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251800934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in case anyone thought rms has ever been sane, here's what he said when Symbolics corporation told him to stop reading their code and rewriting features from it:
< 1251800936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["I definitely did have fantasies of killing myself and destroying their building in the process," Stallman says. "I thought my life was over."]]
< 1251801029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["I started crying right there in the equipment room," he says. "Seeing the machine there, dead, with nobody left to fix it, it all drove home how completely my community had been destroyed."]]
< 1251801039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's cringeworthy even to read this.
< 1251801049 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251801143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251801165 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251801299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does rms nowadays use passwords, I wonder.
< 1251801385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, almost certainly.
< 1251801396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not on his laptop.
< 1251801403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably on his server accounts.
< 1251801447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a fool, incidentally.
< 1251801631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1251801761 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251801972 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251802523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm?
< 1251802591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird was quoting few bits, probably from http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch07.html I guess.
< 1251802611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another copy of that, but yeah.
< 1251802634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably AnMaster will now chastise you for not prefixing that with "ehird:"; he's done that before when ignoring me, at least.
< 1251803234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251803744 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251804976 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1251806937 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-44-163.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251807813 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251809278 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251809830 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251810174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicorn flu huh?
< 1251810256 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251810285 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1251810386 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1251810559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so why are you still pretending like you exist
< 1251811239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be buskers with laptops
< 1251811245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making electronic music with a laptop case open for money
< 1251811254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps with overdriven electric guitars
< 1251811267 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-77-180.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251811772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: For 30 it says 65*
< 1251811808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whut
< 1251811825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But what would Jesus say!?
< 1251811844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt the Bible addresses Befunge constants at all. :/
< 1251811891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such a useless book
< 1251811923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What does it say for "befunge" (base 26)?
< 1251811942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, tell me what "befunge" is in base 26
< 1251811968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only takes base 10 as input :-P
< 1251811979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's so much work!
< 1251812169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :359086628?
< 1251812252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's that; 4548*+1348**+56898::**+**+*** or 4548*+1c8*+d555558*****+*** or 4"%a5N"5'@**+***
< 1251812879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I prefer the or :P
< 1251812926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, another Luddite dualist idiot peddles his unscientific doomsday view on AI in a popsci publication. What else is new.
< 1251812967 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had some kind of linear encoding which knew about commutativity that last one could be a character shorter
< 1251813093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to produce strong AI: Keep having babies until evolution gets bored and spits out an intelligent, self-improving computer
< 1251813103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sure this will work.
< 1251813144 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That presupposes two rather unlikely states
< 1251813171 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firstly that evolution can get bored, and secondly that it'll do that if it does
< 1251813192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is there a reason for 4"%a5N"5'@**+*** over 4"%a5N@"5**+*** then?
< 1251813209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If you adopt a sufficiently warped view of what genes can do it has a probability of 1, assuming you're immortal
< 1251813216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Like said, I don't have a linear encoding which knows about commutativity.
< 1251813235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes straight from binary-treeish AST to string
< 1251813247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Without a sufficiently warped view, you'll just get a baby that immediately flies over to a computer and types out a strong, self-improving AI within hours.
< 1251813261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fool-proof.
< 1251813269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Also assuming a universe that exists forever
< 1251813282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That is kind of implied by a thing being immortal.
< 1251813283 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess true "immortality" assumes that.
< 1251813286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snap.
< 1251813307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, arguably "immortal" could also mean being able to live as long as the surrounding universe.
< 1251813317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True
< 1251813366 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So it just generates a Mul (Push 5) (Push 64) and the reason it becomes 5'@ instead of '@5 is that the left branch is output first.
< 1251813382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All finns: do you guys have obnoxious companies trying to "cut down" on piracy by taking all means necessary against your internet connection?
< 1251813385 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying all possible branching orders may or may not be feasible, I'm not sure how fast that grows.
< 1251813403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: exponentially, no?
< 1251813418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be my guess
< 1251813473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, apparently this exchange has ADSL2+ or something? Well, one company at least thinks it does.
< 1251813480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others don't though.
< 1251813501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the max here is 19.8 megabit, which beats the 6 mbit I'm getting
< 1251813528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for companies like that; not to my knowledge; there's mainly the local CISAC member, Teosto
< 1251813537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;/:/
< 1251813557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All finns: Any nasty industry-standard internet censorship or deep packet inspection?
< 1251813673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit of blacklist censorship done by most ISPs; intended to be vs. child porn but there's also some other stuff (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsiporno.info)
< 1251813703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like what we have here; "child porn" which includes that old album cover, oh and "race hate material" and the like
< 1251813710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next week, "record industry hate material"
< 1251813720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1047 censored websites" "nine were unrelated to pornography, 28 had content hard to categorize as legal or illegal, 46 were (legal) child modeling sites and 879 contained only legal pornography"
< 1251813741 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and "nine of the sites contained child pornography"
< 1251813743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't seem to be many providers using the list
< 1251813749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them are small
< 1251813750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsiporno.info#Status_of_lapsiporno.info_with_Finnish_Internet_service_providers
< 1251813755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Elisa must've been a recent change
< 1251813761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Nebula is the fast one fizzie uses iirc
< 1251813762 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since lapsiporno.info was blocked last I checked
< 1251813767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elisa was very recent.
< 1251813781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, they blocked a site about it?
< 1251813787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-08-05.
< 1251813787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucked up
< 1251813789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if Elisa were still blocked then that'd have Elisa + Welho which are over 50%
< 1251813801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because the site published links that were on the list.
< 1251813802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any deep packet inspection, though?
< 1251813807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to my knowledge
< 1251813810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, how would I know ;-)
< 1251813821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Citation?
< 1251813829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All finns: What's a good way to learn Finnish, and how do I learn to like saunas?
< 1251813831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1251813839 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried saunas? :-P
< 1251813842 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be a way to start
< 1251813844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :-P
< 1251813858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That question might have been a little bit joking, so to speak.
< 1251813888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Citation for the reason? Well, I think that was the official reason, anyway. The site doesn't seem to answer right now.
< 1251813896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Citation for the date
< 1251813903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of Elisa's unblocking
< 1251813958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, that was actually the date for when lapsiporno.info got a note about it. I assume the unblocking came first, don't know the exact date.
< 1251813966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, right, Nebula was that one that was great apart from the speed being rather unimpressive
< 1251813975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess Ask! is a nice price for 100mbit both ways
< 1251813978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can spare Ask!.
< 1251813981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see the page has it
< 1251814009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "unimpressive" in the sense that it's what you get with ADSL-based technologies; I dislike the rather high price more.
< 1251814068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, right, I meant the price/speed ratio.
< 1251814076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's a bit unimpressive.
< 1251814088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't Welho that 100mbit dumbpeople one?
< 1251814113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys seem to have the perfect internet connection, just it's scattered across a bunch of subscriptions :P
< 1251814113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, well, not all Welho users are that dumb, I mean...
< 1251814126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1251814133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dumbpeople?
< 1251814141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't support IPv6 or err custom DNS or something
< 1251814144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore dumbpeople
< 1251814148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :-P
< 1251814152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they, like, advertise TV services
< 1251814159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And their site is ugly
< 1251814160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a cable TV company, so..
< 1251814160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs IPv6 when you can download at 110 Mbps
< 1251814180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But they use the blacklist too :P
< 1251814200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unnoticeable
< 1251814207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morally unacceptable
< 1251814215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't notice the CCTV cameras around here either
< 1251814218 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, if it were valid
< 1251814224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nebula's selling the "bond two ADSL2+ annex M lines together to get a 48/6M link" service, which is speedy enough, but it's a frigging 150 eur/month.
< 1251814227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can understand blocking child porn
< 1251814249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe in censorship, especially when it involves looking at my packets
< 1251814274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet service is paying them to give you a hole in the wall with bandwidth, any crimes are your responsibility
< 1251814279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of impossible without looking at packets :-P
< 1251814288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Which makes it unacceptable
< 1251814299 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have to look at your packets anyway in order to be able to route them
< 1251814306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you'd just look at the evil-bit-set packets.
< 1251814308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's way too expensive for those speeds, indeed
< 1251814357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elisa.com is a rather bad site, it lists all the broadband products only with a short summary
< 1251814359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You poor finns
< 1251814389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your bad telecom company websites
< 1251814392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to the Finnish site for more info :-P
< 1251814392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you sleep at night
< 1251814395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.elisa.fi/yksityisille/laajakaista/laajakaista/tekniset_tiedot/
< 1251814414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, there wasn't a link to the Finnish site.
< 1251814430 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes there was
< 1251814438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I didn't notice it :P
< 1251814441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.elisa.com -> bottom of page "Suomeksi"
< 1251814448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suomeksi
< 1251814451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course"
< 1251814464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100mbit/10mbit?
< 1251814467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can't expect to find the link if you don't speak Finnish
< 1251814468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't be fibr-optic
< 1251814470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fibre
< 1251814476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that must be some hefty ADSL
< 1251814484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it's fibre-optic but they rate limited the upload
< 1251814491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're——
< 1251814494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number of computers in use as early
< 1251814500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a limit on how many computers you can use with it?
< 1251814506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1251814508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1251814514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes with five dynamic IPs.
< 1251814528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's rather pointless with IPv4
< 1251814530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Five dynamic IPs" seems to be the de-facto "standard" around here.
< 1251814537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1251814542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen more than one dynamic IP
< 1251814625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the "super" thing is for.. er, building-owners, to be resold to actual people-living-there; and it goes to 100M/10M only when the house in question has suitable Ethernet cabling.
< 1251814647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 24M/1M for phone-cabling-only places.
< 1251814734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of MizardX's weird click-to-switch-broadband thing.
< 1251814773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's 1 Gbps fibre to the basement in any case. And they're only selling it (in case of existing buildings) to buildings with at least 20 apartments in them.
< 1251814867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh!
< 1251814897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the Swedish internet situation is better, I seem to hear a lot of good interweb thingies from there.
< 1251814905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, also Norway. They have a lot of fibre.
< 1251814913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just go to South Korea
< 1251814936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welho's 110M/5M is probably the widestly-available fast-enough connection, and that's just because large parts of the capital-city area is in their cable TV network.
< 1251815005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to find any sort of comprehensive list for where Elisa's 100M/10M thing is available, just the "put your address here and we'll tell you" thing.
< 1251815014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But even fantasy-head-moving because of just internet would be unacceptable without taking the time to fantasy-head-move to somewhere with a decent political system :p
< 1251815030 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1251815057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You European social democracies collect political parties like Pokemon.
< 1251815061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many are there now, 152?
< 1251815295 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host81-129-119-179.range81-129.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251815624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're still speaking of Finland, we only have 15 currently registered political parties. A total sum of everything in Europe would be quite a lot, I guess.
< 1251815639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking; 152 = initial pokemon + 1.
< 1251815653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't Sweden have like 17 with seats?
< 1251815676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know; we have 8 of those.
< 1251815694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, in the world where everything is backwards: "SSDs are best for sequential writes and HDDs are best for random writes."
< 1251815750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their Parliament is bigger; 349 seats, compared to our 200. You can fit more parties in there.
< 1251815755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure their building is also bigger.
< 1251815773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. They can fit bigger people because their seats are bigger because their building is bigger.
< 1251815777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Riksdagen-fran-vattnet-2004-05-09.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eduskuntatalo_(Finnish_Parliament_building).JPG
< 1251815780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This helps because Swedish people are bigger.
< 1251815799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I didn't know Finland was located in Ancient Greece!
< 1251815809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a little-known fact.
< 1251815824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many people do not know that.
< 1251815932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile: http://buttersafe.com/comics/2009-09-01-theevilplan.jpg
< 1251815950 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251815951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're using that picture, as it's more imposing; Wikipedia does have one which shows the complete structure -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Parliament_House_of_Finland.jpg -- but in that one it's not so impressive.
< 1251815968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maxisat? More like
< 1251815971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marxisat? More like
< 1251815975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marxis? More like
< 1251815978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marx? More like
< 1251815983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karl Marx? More like
< 1251815984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMUNISTS
< 1251815994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do IPTV things, actually.
< 1251816000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO COMMUNISM
< 1251816015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and sell broadband internet. :p
< 1251816029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And communism.
< 1251816074 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxisat
< 1251816077 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for heavy data flow
< 1251816083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your communism
< 1251816089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECONOMIC FLOW
< 1251816090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of GOODS
< 1251816721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmph
< 1251816949 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251817095 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251817375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had some Haskell to code :P
< 1251817523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plenty of Haskell in the world
< 1251817570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phrase "I can has kell" popped into my mind.
< 1251817629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That is true
< 1251817638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that got to do with wanting to write something that haskell would fit nicely
< 1251817655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means there's plenty of stuff to hack on if that's what you want to do
< 1251817718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's icky practical software by Other People Who Are Bad Coders. :P
< 1251817748 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it the "who are bad coders" comes by default since it's "other people"?
< 1251817782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally
< 1251817944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That attitude does limit your options somewhat
< 1251817977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to suggest improving my fungifier but you can also code a better one from scratch, if you want; it's fairly short
< 1251817993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1251817996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just end up bruteforcing i
< 1251817997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t
< 1251818002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there's an eleganty algo to do it
< 1251818006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that too, if it ends up fast enough :-P
< 1251818019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas i cannot transcend the laws of physisc
< 1251818022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics
< 1251818053 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can
< 1251818171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: sweet, gimme my infinity machine
< 1251818188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So you want not only some Haskell, but some Haskell that implements an elegant algorithm? :-P
< 1251818204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the task is boring in itself imo
< 1251818227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much factoring + subtract and factor
< 1251818307 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird : Later
< 1251818312 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feeling a bit lazy right no
< 1251818324 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newsflash: most tasks are boring especially when summarized in a single sentence :-P
< 1251818343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a perfectly passable algo really
< 1251818396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234 → (for base 10) 2*(1+(8*7*(1+(2*5))))
< 1251818399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1251818409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25*1+87*1+2*
< 1251818413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly not exceedingly good
< 1251818439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if 5 words, one being "+", can describe a half-passable algorithm it's probably just a boring hill-climb with slightly better and better heuristics
< 1251818491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better than what my current one gets allowing only decimals
< 1251818498 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2948328*+**+*
< 1251818584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha
< 1251818595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Gimme a number yours does well on and I'll give it a crack with my uber-tedious algo
< 1251818600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, trivial optimisation of mine:
< 1251818609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25*87*+2+2*
< 1251818629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, what's "well" :-P
< 1251818670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Shortly?
< 1251818672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just gimme a number :P
< 1251818680 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57849
< 1251818742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3*(1+(2*5))*(1+(2*2*2*3*(1+(2*2*2*3*3))))
< 1251818744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial reduction:
< 1251818754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3*(1+(2*5))*(1+(8**3*(1+(8*9))))
< 1251818758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→
< 1251818765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57*:*9+ with some Human Ingenuity, which no computar in the world can match.
< 1251818768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For 1234, I mean.
< 1251818781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :89*1+83*1+25*1+3**
< 1251818790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially simplify:
< 1251818814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :89*83*25*++3+3**
< 1251818818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1251818822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a trailing * there
< 1251818833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that failed
< 1251818834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1251818881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :89*1+83**1+25*1+*3*
< 1251818913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is
< 1251818936 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1251818945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :89*83**25**3*3+
< 1251818950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what does yours give?
< 1251818951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78+88+*::*9++
< 1251818965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The square-root finding I did manually might even make sense.
< 1251818967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: remember that this algo is four words and a symbol :P
< 1251818977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying that the problem is kinda trivial
< 1251818981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That gives 51843
< 1251818993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, so I reduced wrong at some point
< 1251818996 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine gives 392+13898:*+**+** using decimals
< 1251818999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired; what to do is obvious
< 1251819012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a trivial problem just because it can't be solved
< 1251819017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So shorter than my initial one just by a char
< 1251819041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda yawnsville, yah?
< 1251819100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call it trivial, anyway. I'm sure it gets really quite interesting when the numbers are large enough that loops start to make sense.
< 1251819102 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is yours doing something with prime factors?
< 1251819110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1251819123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's mine
< 1251819130 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does it do when it gets to 1753?
< 1251819139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For mine, it subtracts one and refactors
< 1251819142 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approximate and add?
< 1251819143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then does 1+
< 1251819154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Give me a large number
< 1251819159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 8119824918791285132865191
< 1251819166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh you just hate me.
< 1251819170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't automated this you know.
< 1251819178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Split it in half until it's small enough :-P
< 1251819183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it reduces to a whole bunch of 2*2*2*2* with factor(1)
< 1251819191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then 23, then 54798378614461
< 1251819196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1251819200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean?
< 1251819203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just take the easy way out, why don'tcha
< 1251819210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: factor unix program
< 1251819220 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Mine grabs the one with most factors that it can subtract to
< 1251819223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you said 2 is a factor of 8119824918791285132865191
< 1251819228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the hopes that those are easier to reduce
< 1251819233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, just not a prime factor :P
< 1251819241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...?
< 1251819241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh?
< 1251819249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is factor(1) broken?
< 1251819252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number is odd so 2 can't be a factor of it
< 1251819254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your factor(1) must be pretty strange then.
< 1251819255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am barely awake here btw
< 1251819260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe overflow
< 1251819260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there was like an ignore that ignored ehird when there's math being talked about
< 1251819268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when he's tired
< 1251819269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine just says: factor: `8119824918791285132865191' is too large
< 1251819270 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some factor(1)s don't support bigger than machine-sized ints
< 1251819276 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine says: 8119824918791285132865191: 13960227797 581639858379403
< 1251819297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1251819307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*6*23*54798378614461 certainly = 8119824918791285132865191
< 1251819314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1251819316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't
< 1251819320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it does
< 1251819323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8119824918791284674527232
< 1251819326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then goes and diverges on yo ass
< 1251819329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you factor(1)
< 1251819331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are suck ass
< 1251819337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me install gnu factor or something
< 1251819611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1251819612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see
< 1251819616 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251819733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Close
< 1251819744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close?
< 1251819757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To fully converting it
< 1251819865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1+(2*2*(1+(2*2*(1+(2*2*3*3))))*(1+(2*(1+(2*5*5*5))))*(1+(2*3*3*(1+(2*2*3))*(1+(2*3*3*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*3*(1+(2*2*(1+(2*3*(1+(2*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*3*3*5*7))*(1+(2*3*(1+(2*2*(1+(2*3*3*3*3))))))*(1+(2*7*(1+(2*5))*(1+(2*2*2*3*(1+(2*3*3))))))))
< 1251819868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simplifying,
< 1251819944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1+(4*(1+(4*(1+(4*9))))*(1+(2*(1+(2*5*5*5))))*(1+(2*9*(1+(4*3))*(1+(2*9*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*3*(1+(4*(1+(6*(1+(2*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*9*5*7))*(1+(6*(1+(4*(1+(6*9*3))))))*(1+(2*7*(1+(2*5))*(1+(4*6*(1+(2*9))))))))
< 1251819951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can RPN that yourself :P
< 1251819953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does yours output?
< 1251819972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68888888888728*+145994+75838:*+**+76599458**+2379**+****+*****+************
< 1251819992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be easier to just write it in say base 9
< 1251819999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be shorter than Deewiant's too
< 1251820003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'08'@"@@@"f8+'½8';"@SZ@"*+"¿0@e"**+****+*******, the latin-1, is much nicer
< 1251820013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing parens (that'll be how long it is in RPN) gives 125 for mine, 75 for yours
< 1251820031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty funny how well a 4 words+symbol algo is doing against your long prog :P
< 1251820049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny how the trivial solution is better than either of yours
< 1251820067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My long prog generalizes to a bunch of stuff
< 1251820068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because it's a trivial problem
< 1251820068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking internet
< 1251820069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too slow
< 1251820073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1251820086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: which trivial solution
< 1251820091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True, still
< 1251820097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i'm just angry at internet, and tired enough to project.
< 1251820097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I can think of a bunch of brute-force improvements to mine
< 1251820099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it isn't that long, either
< 1251820102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. subtract a variable amount
< 1251820104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just 1
< 1251820106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bruteforce
< 1251820117 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, bruteforcing is an improvement but also fucking slow :-P
< 1251820120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just write it in the normal canonical number notation
< 1251820129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that does not execute in befunge
< 1251820129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in base 9, if you don't have an A
< 1251820132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not really
< 1251820144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious when you'll run into diminishing returns
< 1251820146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1251820178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't d9*d+9*d+9*... work?
< 1251820191 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four chars per digit, might lose to Deewiant, too hard to calculate
< 1251820202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19*2+9*2+9*7+9*1+9*3+9*4+9*8+9*7+9*5+9*0+9*8+9*6+9*4+9*5+9*3+9*5+9*5+9*3+9*4+9*1+9*1+9*3+9*6+9*8+9*6+9*3+
< 1251820207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant's wins massively on... other numbers
< 1251820208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1251820210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That'd be 100
< 1251820218 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since this is a 25-digit number.
< 1251820228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: in base 9?
< 1251820230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or base 10
< 1251820232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base 10.
< 1251820237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 122713487508645355341136863 in base-9.
< 1251820241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do base 9
< 1251820254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In base 9 it'd be 105?
< 1251820255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: we have a-f actually.
< 1251820258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're just not using them
< 1251820260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, as i said, i was just projecting.
< 1251820266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking fucking internet
< 1251820272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to load like 3 pages
< 1251820286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a-f it's a bit shorter: 88688888888f8+d6781489**+1459**+3488f4+1a8:**+****+*****+************
< 1251820292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: are you using that gprs thing
< 1251820294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blob thing
< 1251820297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: how long would mine be?
< 1251820304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, neighbor's net.
< 1251820316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: complain to your neighbour :P
< 1251820320 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: 2009-09-01 17:50:54 ( Deewiant) In base 9 it'd be 105?
< 1251820336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19642DA3B3043453DAA0CB in base-15, with approximately *4 for the "+f*" parts in-between.
< 1251820343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Uppercase since that's what bc outputs.)
< 1251820351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i meant in 16
< 1251820358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right base 15
< 1251820363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 digits in base-15.
< 1251820369 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :85
< 1251820395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, ceiling the end result isn't quite enough is it
< 1251820399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, 88 then
< 1251820403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :87
< 1251820410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the first one doesn't need a +
< 1251820416 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True that
< 1251820421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1251820428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still win with 69
< 1251820454 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which you should, if you call it an algorithm)
< 1251820471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call lots of simple things algorithms
< 1251820478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is just a call to zip
< 1251820513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, umm. it was just a figure of your mom
< 1251820522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]
< 1251820534 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, it rhymes
< 1251820591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom and ] totally rhyme
< 1251821240 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84.217.14.48 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251821543 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251821706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I want a key on my keyboard that is labelled "Ha! You referenced xkcd! You are clearly a funny, culturally relevant and intelligent person."
< 1251821750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm more worried about my impression that xkcd sometimes seems to be referencing reddit lately...
< 1251821776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if he is spending too much time there ;D
< 1251821844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh they _do_ have some kind of business partnership
< 1251821872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in business together selling shitty ties
< 1251821899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm shitty ties. something for GregorR?
< 1251821938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and speaking of 8119824918791285132865191:
< 1251821939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3176727665646579168954283320> \:#v_.@
< 1251821939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^+*9\-1<
< 1251821954 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple lines: no-go
< 1251821957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hallo. <-- scariest atomic element ever
< 1251821992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3176727665646579168954283320>\#+:#* #9 #\ #- #1_
< 1251822016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would be a base loop.
< 1251822021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of sorts.
< 1251822032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why not... base 10?
< 1251822038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin'
< 1251822040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You need a $ at the end
< 1251822051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 'tis a reference to adium and also scary.
< 1251822052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Yes.
< 1251822078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did 1+ to the base-9 digits to have 0 more easily usable as a end-of-digits marker.
< 1251822107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, err, you have 0 at the top of the stack.
< 1251822124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the accumulator.
< 1251822128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you can call it that.
< 1251822147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1251822150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the accumulator, it's accumulating
< 1251822177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accumulonimbus clouds today.
< 1251822214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1251822234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acacumollofdimbus on the rimbus its like a rombhus but you dont hve to worry oh no
< 1251822248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rhombus
< 1251822264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rombhus is a type of house, I think.
< 1251822276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :et rombiskt hus
< 1251822349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"—and he build a crooked house—" was about gay arriage in rhombusses
< 1251822375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhombu bus s yststem
< 1251822377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets you from A to B
< 1251822380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a rhombus
< 1251822417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define arriage
< 1251822419 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1251822426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horse and arriage
< 1251822432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horseless arriages
< 1251822443 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251822465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1251822472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about gay marriage in 4-dimensional shapes
< 1251822477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just me rather
< 1251822484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... well, I'm not particularly surprised
< 1251822486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no
< 1251822491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhombuses aren't 4 dimensional
< 1251822501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "—and he built a crooked house—" was about a tesseract
< 1251822504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I said build, not built
< 1251822525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO THEREFORE MAGIC HAPPENS HERE and we come back to comprehension on the rhombus bus services, gets you from A to B in a rhombus
< 1251822600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you understand ais523.
< 1251822631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly I could if I wanted to
< 1251822634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not trying to
< 1251822635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no
< 1251822649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will never be salvaged from the burning ruins of a dead rhombusbus, gets you from A to B in a rhombus
< 1251822821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1251822854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now wonders what the heck Picard-Vessiot theory has to do with the possibility of four-dimensional houses
< 1251822867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If I got my base-64 right, this one assumes only ASCII. The "decompression" takes up more space than the "digits" even for 8119824918791285132865191, though:
< 1251822869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+\#* #* #8 #8 #\ #- #* #8 #8_$
< 1251822875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eh?
< 1251822889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see where you got Picard-Vessiot theory from
< 1251822895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's mentioned in wp's article on "And he built a crooked house"
< 1251822910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*“—And He Built a Crooked House—”
< 1251822911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the link leads to a page on galois theory which doesn't mention the term
< 1251822912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's a bit longer than the base-9 one, isn't it?
< 1251822927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eh, just read the story
< 1251822928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's short
< 1251822939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, by one character, if I add the missing $ there too.
< 1251822970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The repetition of 88* is inelegant, but \ is so limited.
< 1251822982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1251823002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nah, i'm just suspecting technobabble here
< 1251823015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall any technobabble
< 1251823021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good story anyway
< 1251823045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the minimal number is whereafter parsers like that take up less space than plain +*-representations of the number
< 1251823090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://web.archive.org/web/20000902022857/http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/heinlein/heinlein1.html
< 1251823091 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251823094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hasn't fully loaded for me yet, but
< 1251823126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, just errors out
< 1251823142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries a later date
< 1251823146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That page works fine
< 1251823159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pages 2 and 3 as well
< 1251823178 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Reusing the obvious \ both ways make the base-64 one shorter by one char than the base-9: "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+ #* #* #8 #8\ #- #* #8 #8_$
< 1251823192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Flash detection fails here
< 1251823196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses w3m
< 1251823201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah!
< 1251823203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://web.archive.org/web/20080115153446/http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/heinlein/heinlein1.html
< 1251823205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loads quickly, etc.
< 1251823216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang is that? Befunge?
< 1251823226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Loads much slower than the other one :-P
< 1251823233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Stop living in opposites world.
< 1251823240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus far, not at all
< 1251823250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try refreshing
< 1251823251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worked for me
< 1251823266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, evidently
< 1251823266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: erm the other one errored out for me
< 1251823280 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now both work for me
< 1251823291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoyingly, I need to resize my window small
< 1251823293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm even starting to get pictures :-O
< 1251823296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise the black text goes on the green background
< 1251823306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The old link doesn't have that problem
< 1251823315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it also redirects my browser
< 1251823336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why we have things like NoScript.
< 1251823349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why we have things like not using shitty websites
< 1251823373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not always an option
< 1251823397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Still a bit shorter: "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+\#* #@' $#\ #- #@' $# _$
< 1251823399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thanks for the resizing tip
< 1251823404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yw :P
< 1251823415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, #@' $#
< 1251823422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3$&*(#Y$(*$(& to you too
< 1251823445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The $s ate a bit of the savings '@ gave me over 88*.
< 1251823482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it take less space to use "" and k$ instead of #?
< 1251823506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it seems to be rather nice with just "" both ways, since I don't have to jump over the @ then.
< 1251823585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly this would work, haven't tested: "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+ #*"@"$#\\#-"@"$# _$
< 1251823601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$# _$
< 1251823604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Druggiefunge
< 1251823699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Doesn't seem to.
< 1251823717 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but neither did the previous.
< 1251823735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there could be some other error. I don't have a bignum funge, I've just been thinking aloud here.
< 1251823736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the one before that.
< 1251823750 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do all give the same number (90), though. :-P
< 1251823782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tested the base-9 for a smaller number, so the theory is sound. :p
< 1251823799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, the : there is before the \.
< 1251823799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, base-9 works, but your base-64 doesn't.
< 1251823826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try something like "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+ #*"@"$#\:#-"@"$# _$
< 1251823863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8119824918791284998647463
< 1251823940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did the base-64 digits manually, since bc(1) only goes up to obase=16, based on the obase=2 binary output of 8119824918791285132865191, so an error might've crept in.
< 1251823979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's one flipped bit in there.
< 1251823989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere around the middle of it.
< 1251824029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8119824918791285132865191-8119824918791284998647463 = 134217728 = 2^27, so it's that bit.
< 1251824082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm sure that with enough ingenuity it's possible to use that same "@" to provide both the '@- and the '@* numbers. Maybe I should try to permute it a bit.
< 1251824201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it really be as simple as "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+:#*"@"-#\\# _$ or did I mess something new up, in addition to that one digit?
< 1251824245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I obviously mean the less retarded "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+:#*"@"-#\_$
< 1251824250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get Erlang and efunge and try it yourself, if you like
< 1251824268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at work... hey, wait, there's Erlang on this thing.
< 1251824282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That latest one seems to be an infinite loop
< 1251824293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's missing one space.
< 1251824303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+:#*"@"-# \_$
< 1251824308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably not the latest erlang v2009-08.
< 1251824312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever.
< 1251824326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "Erlang (BEAM) emulator version 5.6.3", whatever that means. Probably ancient.
< 1251824360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is 5.7.1 and the efunge version I've got here got warnings about doing deprecated things
< 1251824385 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that is indeed 8119824918791284998647463
< 1251824410 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251824422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now, that last one has a pretty nifty base-64-depackifier. I ♥ befunge.
< 1251824440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know how you said 9-nines would be ridiculous?
< 1251824452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1251824453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in what context?
< 1251824469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uptime
< 1251824523 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251824569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is your base-64 just 64 characters starting at '@'?
< 1251824576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AXD301 -- 99.9999999% reliability (9 nines) (31 ms. year!)"
< 1251824590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, it's not the more common base-64.
< 1251824616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But the printable characters end at 126
< 1251824648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Fortunately your example number didn't have any other digits. :p
< 1251824665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1251824683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can trivially change that to "base-63 starting from ASCII '?'" with a s/@/?/.
< 1251824684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, that's what I meant
< 1251824692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an Erlang switcher system thing
< 1251824692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do base-96 if you start from ' '
< 1251824699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth can they commit to 9 nines; it becomes meaningless at that point
< 1251825140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I'd lose the nifty "substract and multiply constant both ways" thing.
< 1251825140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be an advantage for larger numbers, sure.
< 1251825140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicurious Befunge: "I'll subtract and multiply your constant both ways, baby."
< 1251825140 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251825140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I could start from '#' since then I could do '# which is push-35 in one direction and do-nothing the other way. Still wouldn't be quite that short though.
< 1251825140 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1251825140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, 2^64-1 is ff2+14'@*+1a'@*+128'@:***+"a7 /Q"***+*****
< 1251825140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that time it's already better to use that base-64-reader
< 1251825140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1251825141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's also 28'@'@:*:**:***1- if you apply some extra cleverness
< 1251825233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do 0 ... 63^11-1 = 62050608388552823487 > 2^64 with 11 base-64 digits, and the extraction part -- 0>\#+:#*"@"-# \_$ -- is 17 characters, so that's an upper bound of 28 characters for any constant for a "normal" funge on a "normal" machine.
< 1251825266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, base-63, I mean, and ? instead of @ there.
< 1251825287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bongggggggggggggggggggg
< 1251825319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63^11-1 is a nice one: "?11111QQ":*:********
< 1251825433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's certainly nicer than the base-63 representation, "}}}}}}}}}}}"0>\#+:#*"?"-# \_$ (again untested)
< 1251825460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Factoring large prime numbers is, in general, hard."
< 1251825460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— GNU Coreutils manual
< 1251825468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, FSF!
< 1251825486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ?
< 1251825500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think that doesn't belong in a manual?
< 1251825551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of like saying "Removing a file will render you unable to access its contents" in the rm manual :P
< 1251825559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I just found it funny
< 1251825565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, IMO
< 1251825578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is kind of obvious, the former is specialized knowledge
< 1251825600 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also continues with relevant stuff: "The Pollard Rho algorithm used by factor is particularly effective for numbers with relatively small factors. If you wish to factor large numbers which do not have small factors (for example, numbers which are the product of two large primes), other methods are far better."
< 1251825601 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't expect people to know that factorization is computationally hard unless they're computer-sciencey
< 1251825636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they could say "(for example, if you are trying to break RSA encryption)" there.
< 1251825645 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1251825789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope nobody does that :P
< 1251825804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to break RSA?
< 1251825814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to break RSA with factor(1).
< 1251825824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worth a try
< 1251825837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but there is sort of a lot of stuff encrypted with RSA.
< 1251825838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be bad.
< 1251825856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is concievable that NSA's secret factorization algorithms have accidentally ended up in GNU Coreutils.
< 1251825857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fear success? :-P
< 1251825886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How much stuff have you got encrypted with pgp?
< 1251825917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much
< 1251825925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then :P
< 1251825938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh
< 1251825942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I had, I wouldn't worry
< 1251825945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd just melt down all of our current security entirely
< 1251825949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't very good
< 1251825955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wouldn't succeed :-P
< 1251826051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What wouldn't?
< 1251826059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaking RSA with factor(1)
< 1251826066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie added factor(1) as a joke
< 1251826070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said factor(1)
< 1251826083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought he clarified what you meant
< 1251826090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P
< 1251826391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a cocktail of like 10 energy drinks.
< 1251826398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not drink it due to valuing my life.
< 1251826412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, factor(1) errors out for too large numbers iirc
< 1251826433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I misremember
< 1251826453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's the coreutils one, you can compile it with GMP support for large numbers.
< 1251826469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% gfactor 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
< 1251826469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[hang]
< 1251826471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed.. it errors out on my ubuntu system but not my gentoo desktop
< 1251826475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't have picked such a big counterexample.
< 1251826566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you can make use of multiple cpus to speed up factoring right?
< 1251826588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well depends on your algorithm. At least the naive one should be easy to speed up that way
< 1251826631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-one factors large numbers with that one, though. But yes, I think there are good parallel algorithms for it.
< 1251826657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have no clue about is the state-of-the-art in number-factoring.
< 1251826685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We can break real-world RSA in 2^97 years!"
< 1251826717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, of course no one use the naive one for large numbers. At least no one sane.
< 1251826866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on some quick googling, the current records from the RSA Factoring Challenge were done on an 80-node cluster.
< 1251826873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mine is 5.7.1 and the efunge version I've got here got warnings about doing deprecated things
< 1251826874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1251826877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what efunge version
< 1251826909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is R13B-0 right?
< 1251826937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no warnings on V5.7.2 for me with trunk or athr branch.
< 1251826978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The efunge version I've got here" sounds like it might not be the newest.
< 1251826991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use lp:efunge/trunk right? Not on rage.kuonet.org (see bzr info, look for "parent branch")
< 1251827016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw 5.6.3 is probably too old
< 1251827021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things to work correctly
< 1251827043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that at least input will cause an exception with that old version.
< 1251827070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R13B or later is pretty much required, since I use some unicode stuff that was added in that version
< 1251827077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for input that is
< 1251827262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what it was, some old trunk I haven't updated in months
< 1251827282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, just curious, what was reported as deprecated?
< 1251827288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you remember that is
< 1251827297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC something about "array" or some such now being a primitive
< 1251827325 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something becoming standard and thus using it in a variable name is deprecated, or something like that
< 1251827335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh right, remember that. Yeah your copy is outdated
< 1251827343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well a type spec name in fact
< 1251827344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1251827351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I knew that it was outdated
< 1251828067 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-141-90.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251828902 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1251829376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw, most of your projects seems to be in haskell rather than D. Why didn't you decide to code ccbi2 in haskell too?
< 1251831251 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251831540 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking for myself, it can be hard to predict performance in Haskell
< 1251832245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, mhm
< 1251832283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, considering how much Deewiant complained about the hash library in D recently I think his opinion is it is hard to predict performance in D too XD
< 1251832295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tends to be rather easy in C though)
< 1251834635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251834975 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-37-158.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251835296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251835499 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251836857 0 :nooga!n=nooga@86-63-124-134.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251837260 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set f {x y: x+y} print f 1 2 #=> 3
< 1251837350 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set [: {until :] items : map items {x: x*2}} [[: 1 2 3 :] [: 4 :]] #=> [[2 4 6] [8]]
< 1251837357 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool/uncool?
< 1251837401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, language?
< 1251837446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editing the panel in gnome is seriously annoying
< 1251837447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^
< 1251837463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the "lock to panel" thingy is messing things up
< 1251837464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1251837497 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set unless {cond `begin until `end terms : if not cond terms}
< 1251837512 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless == a b begin do_sth end
< 1251837518 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like uh
< 1251837534 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defining functions with own pattern that parses args
< 1251837674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what language....
< 1251837680 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none
< 1251837683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok
< 1251837686 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a concept
< 1251837715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nah, it's fairly easy to predict in D.
< 1251837716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, to me it looks vaguely like a mix of perl and some functional language XD
< 1251837722 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liek sadol with longer IDs, lambda and this pattern thingy
< 1251837725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? "it sucks"?
< 1251837731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1251837741 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If it's a feature built in to the compiler, then yeah. ;-)
< 1251837754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, isn't the language itself built in?
< 1251837762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a manner of speaking
< 1251837764 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251837769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1251837771 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251837772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes yes, you know what I meant. :-P
< 1251837774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks by weird compiler bugs
< 1251837774 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, i wrote 'liek' accidentally for the first time in my life
< 1251837783 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1251837785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wrong file in debug info
< 1251837807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for CCBI2, two reasons: 1. I had 6000 lines of D code for a Befunge interp already... 2. Since we're all performance-crazy and the whole thing is rather imperative in nature, Haskell isn't that great a fit.
< 1251837812 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about? :|
< 1251837817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right
< 1251837824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ccbi...
< 1251837830 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok
< 1251837842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 6800 lines only?
< 1251837860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's not a weird bug, it's quite a sensible one actually.
< 1251837867 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=ccbi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
< 1251837875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them is still unfixed, even.
< 1251837891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language Files Code Comment Comment % Blank Total
< 1251837891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------------- ----- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
< 1251837891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c 95 8848 3542 28.6% 1597 13987
< 1251837892 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251837893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really matter since the mangled name contains the module where it is :-P
< 1251837897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 6800 lines isn't a lot
< 1251837904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It was less than 10000 last I checked.
< 1251837921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I said 6000, not 6800.
< 1251837923 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bork
< 1251837926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably more like 8000 though.
< 1251837930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember.
< 1251837935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, plus another 2745 LOC (4573 total) for the lib directory, which contains libghthash and genx
< 1251837945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that stringbuffer too
< 1251837961 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about your bf to C ?
< 1251837967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, which one of them
< 1251837974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, and they are all dormant
< 1251837982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the projects I mean
< 1251837995 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1251838010 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's that? i thought that was a rather interesting topic
< 1251838065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, didn't know enough CS to write a better optimiser at that time. My choice of design was a bit limited. Maybe I'll write yet another one in a few years.
< 1251838068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1251838080 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS?
< 1251838086 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1251838087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer science
< 1251838092 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1251838100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I couldn't work out how to work the graphs :P
< 1251838105 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the firs thing i thought about was Counter-Strike
< 1251838117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, that is the last thing that would come to my mind for CS
< 1251838138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) computer science 2) file extension for C# 3) hm no idea... 4) oh wait... 5) wasn
< 1251838139 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's because i played half-life 1 for last 12h
< 1251838142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't* it some game?
< 1251838149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6) damn don't remember what that game was called
< 1251838161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, I never played half life
< 1251838162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1251838163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cs
< 1251838165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1251838172 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never played cs
< 1251838177 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's boring
< 1251838177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1251838179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1251838188 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hl1 is a memmory from childhood
< 1251838193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu
< 1251838201 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;]
< 1251838213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, age?
< 1251838221 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current?
< 1251838226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1251838228 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21, probably
< 1251838237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you played half life?
< 1251838243 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember
< 1251838245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, half life of what?
< 1251838251 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHHHH
< 1251838260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uranium? thorium?
< 1251838262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something else
< 1251838263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1251838269 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_(video_game)
< 1251838269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what?
< 1251838275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GHHHH <-- why that
< 1251838303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I know it is a game, I just wonder what element the title of that game refers too
< 1251838305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to*
< 1251838308 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onomatopoeia
< 1251838317 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that GHHHH
< 1251838324 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the title
< 1251838341 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it refers to some person that if half dead
< 1251838344 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1251838346 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p
< 1251838355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu
< 1251838359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds boring
< 1251838405 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just fucking awesome
< 1251838418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, I never liked first person shooters
< 1251838425 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too
< 1251838429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh?
< 1251838432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dislike them too
< 1251838436 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea
< 1251838437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1251838442 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buut that one is cool
< 1251838451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor third person shooters btw.
< 1251838454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half-Life is just a scientific term, it has no particular meaning in the context of the game
< 1251838461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though first person ones are worse
< 1251838471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have expansions called "Blue Shift" and such, too.
< 1251838479 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never seen that
< 1251838496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, blue shift refers to Doppler effect?
< 1251838508 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1251838510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of anything else it could refer to
< 1251838522 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny: if you translate half-life to Polish it will look like: czas połowicznego rozpadu
< 1251838527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what has that got to do with half life?
< 1251838535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nothing, as I just explained.
< 1251838554 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blie shift -> przesunięcie ku fioletowi
< 1251838556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess uranium travelling at high speed towards you would blue shift ;P
< 1251838567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, "blie"?
< 1251838569 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue*
< 1251838571 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo
< 1251838573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1251838588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:half-life = sv:halveringstid
< 1251838600 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much cooler
< 1251838601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets hear the fi one Deewiant!
< 1251838614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, it literally means "halving-time"
< 1251838628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puoliintumisaika
< 1251838633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nice one
< 1251838644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how the hell do you pronounce it
< 1251838650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also literally "halving-time"
< 1251838658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1251838664 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ˈpuɔliːn̪t̪umisˌɑikɑ]
< 1251838674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mhm
< 1251838684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the dirt below the n and the t?
< 1251838703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, I just copied that from Wiktionary
< 1251838707 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pl:czas połowicznego rozpadu = en:half decay time
< 1251838730 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-3-02.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251838771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently it means they're dental consonants
< 1251838816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wanted to know what ̪ /is/, it's U+032A COMBINING BRIDGE BELOW
< 1251838824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems en:blue shift is sv:blåförskjutning according to Wikipedia
< 1251838832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds familiar too
< 1251838841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:sinisiirtymä
< 1251838862 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blåförskjutning.. I think I've heard about that once
< 1251838865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well literal translation of the sv: one would end up as blue shift I think
< 1251838870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, same...
< 1251838883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, rödförskjutning too it seems
< 1251838894 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't heard about that one, though
< 1251838901 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Blåförskjutning är motsatsen till rödförskjutning"
< 1251838906 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, great information
< 1251838910 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you write swedish word "lax" in IPA?
< 1251838916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, well the red one isn't a stub
< 1251838918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would help
< 1251838919 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, I'd've thought red shift is better known
< 1251838920 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the article about the red one was a bit longer
< 1251838923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to click the link
< 1251838923 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed now
< 1251838935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh?
< 1251838951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why is that
< 1251838952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1251838973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, why is that Yes
< 1251838978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to quote FireFly:
< 1251838981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, great information
< 1251838982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's not what you asked
< 1251838991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well...
< 1251838994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, oh?
< 1251838994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, why is that
< 1251838994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes
< 1251838999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was for the former
< 1251839007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-01 23:02:15 ( AnMaster) Deewiant, oh?
< 1251839007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-01 23:02:29 ( Deewiant) Yes
< 1251839007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-01 23:02:32 ( AnMaster) Deewiant, why is that
< 1251839017 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And from a NPOV:
< 1251839018 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:02:15] Deewiant, oh?
< 1251839018 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:02:32] Yes
< 1251839018 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:02:32] Deewiant, why is that
< 1251839028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a 2 sec difference here :P
< 1251839045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, for the "why", redshift is much more prominent in astronomy
< 1251839058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah hm right
< 1251839064 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I vissa fall förekommer också det motsatta fenomenet, blåförskjutning."
< 1251839073 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like blue ones are less common
< 1251839075 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host
< 1251839078 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And therefore more unknown?
< 1251839081 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, less known*
< 1251839085 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from CS to red shift
< 1251839095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what a shift of topic ;P
< 1251839095 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric
< 1251839157 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, #esoteric, and therefore we may not talk about anything remotely related to esolangs
< 1251839209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, redshift is just what you're more likely to run into so I'd consider it more likely that one has never heard of blueshift
< 1251839219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, we did talk about ccbi above
< 1251839224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you actually know what either is, it should be obvious what the other is.
< 1251839228 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes!
< 1251839232 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone, ban AnMaster!
< 1251839236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, and Deewiant
< 1251839242 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *!*@*
< 1251839246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes indeed
< 1251839256 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you said it again!
< 1251839258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll make sure all discussion is on-topic, at least
< 1251839423 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251839476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, said what again?
< 1251839494 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You talked about esolangs again, or rather, mentioned ccbi
< 1251839505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, So did you now!
< 1251839506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1251839516 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was a semi-pun of the Holy Grail knights who say Ni
< 1251839521 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With "you said it again!"
< 1251839535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, that reference was too far fetched by far
< 1251839541 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1251839553 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1251839555 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far too far fetched
< 1251839559 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far too far fetched by far
< 1251839573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, ah yes that would have been even better
< 1251839620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I'm pretty sure "you said it again" is not unique to the knights who use the Swedish word for first person plural :P
< 1251839625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1251839627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second person
< 1251839631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1251839638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, I forgot my grammar :P
< 1251839652 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely not first person, at least
< 1251839656 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second, yeah
< 1251839656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1251839656 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi/
< 1251839657 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1251839663 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TYPO!!!!!!!!!@@!!21212
< 1251839668 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant ni
< 1251839675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1251839682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, så vad vill ni?
< 1251839684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1251839695 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag va inte
< 1251839706 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably want "vet" there
< 1251839712 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1251839741 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish must be confusing for someone not knowing the language at all
< 1251839747 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or language family
< 1251839774 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But so is probably all languages, depending on how far away they are from other languages one knows
< 1251839793 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brother speaks swedish almost fluently
< 1251839803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, do you think that smorgasbord is one of the funniest English words?
< 1251839816 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English?
< 1251839818 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just from reading few books and listening swedish radio
< 1251839822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's one of those stupidest loan words
< 1251839830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yes, they copied it and dropped the dots
< 1251839831 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and being there for a month
< 1251839831 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is it an english loan word?
< 1251839836 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I didn't know
< 1251839840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, they loaned it from Swedish
< 1251839845 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, yeah
< 1251839850 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds... really odd
< 1251839852 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stupid
< 1251839855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly
< 1251839856 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-104-147.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251839862 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess it's partly because I'm used to it
< 1251839870 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the swedish one, I mean
< 1251839882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1251839889 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:smorgasbord = pl:szwedzki stół
< 1251839890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, they loaned ombudsman too btw
< 1251839899 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1251839904 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whish means literally Swedish table
< 1251839905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, how should I know
< 1251839907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they do that
< 1251839913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is a parasite, feeding off other languages
< 1251839914 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sandwhich table sounds all right to me
< 1251839918 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way better, at least
< 1251839923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I guess because we invented the concept
< 1251839933 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. GOD I LOVE FOOD AT IKEA
< 1251839941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, iirc they loaned gravad lax too... but for once put it into *one* word
< 1251839948 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend of mine ate swedish meatballs when he was in the States
< 1251839950 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax lax lax
< 1251839950 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At IKEA
< 1251839951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it is Swedish that writes words together instead
< 1251839952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finns have had it as long as the Swedes, I think
< 1251839961 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 lax
< 1251839967 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` lax
< 1251839968 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1251839975 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::<
< 1251839981 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that kind of grave accent
< 1251839986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, gravadlax ... doesn't that look weird?
< 1251840004 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks written together
< 1251840013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:graavilohi
< 1251840019 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ravioli?
< 1251840020 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gravioli?
< 1251840021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, iirc that is how they do it. Unlike Swedish.. for once
< 1251840031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ravioli is from it: right?
< 1251840036 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1251840038 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is pizza
< 1251840042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of pasta?
< 1251840044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or?
< 1251840045 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm happy we didn't invent a word for it
< 1251840073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, iirc norwegian translated broadcasting to "kringkastning". Not sure what the Swedish word is in fact
< 1251840101 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me I'm hungry
< 1251840120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, no you are Polish, not from hungry :P
< 1251840123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bad pun!)
< 1251840152 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hungary
< 1251840158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yeah
< 1251840167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was what made the pun so bad
< 1251840171 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"from hungry" doesn't make sense
< 1251840179 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you could spell out the country name :P
< 1251840184 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway
< 1251840187 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broadcasting...
< 1251840194 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sända?
< 1251840205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, that is en:send right?
< 1251840210 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1251840221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, it would be more like sänd till alla
< 1251840226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sound weird
< 1251840227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1251840231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radio
< 1251840231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To transmit a message or signal via radio waves or electronic means
< 1251840231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sända
< 1251840231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :direktsända
< 1251840235 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says tyda.se
< 1251840240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyda.se?
< 1251840244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what that is
< 1251840245 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation thingie
< 1251840248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1251840251 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyda
< 1251840252 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in
< 1251840255 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To.. understand?
< 1251840256 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh
< 1251840257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A URL, obviously
< 1251840258 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really
< 1251840260 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah
< 1251840269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyda: to interpret
< 1251840279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fi: tulkita)
< 1251840280 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, yeah, better translation
< 1251840290 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1251840291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, direktsändning would be live broadcasting then?
< 1251840295 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1251840299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or why did you mention it above
< 1251840313 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't, the site did
< 1251840316 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And
< 1251840321 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Referring to an interpreter as "tydare" would look strange
< 1251840332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, tolk?
< 1251840339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1251840342 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fi:tulkki)
< 1251840342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be translator
< 1251840357 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tolk would me more like compiler
< 1251840359 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, tolk = en:interpreter
< 1251840363 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1251840369 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1251840370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:tulkki = en:interpreter in the context of computers as well
< 1251840376 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about se:tolk there
< 1251840417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firehm
< 1251840432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a course for this
< 1251840436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check the course name
< 1251840441 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot ,
< 1251840446 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before the "hm"
< 1251840450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1251840458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, actually, tab inserts , and space
< 1251840473 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: no it does not
< 1251840473 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1251840484 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it inserts : and space
< 1251840494 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the settings of your client, pretty much
< 1251840495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, .................... stop being silly..... depends on client of course
< 1251840496 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer , to :
< 1251840500 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure :D
< 1251840511 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I want my tab to autocomplete with only nick
< 1251840516 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always
< 1251840519 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's how I havet it
< 1251840522 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have*
< 1251840531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, unless at start of line it just completes with space :P
< 1251840537 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1251840547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly <-- like that, was just f a few times
< 1251840566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam: spam spam spam spam spam spam spam
< 1251840579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :)
< 1251840585 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sausage
< 1251840588 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacon
< 1251840589 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam
< 1251840595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbam
< 1251840612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck oru.se.... needs to be www.oru.se
< 1251840708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Datateknik C, Kompilatorer och interpretatorer, 7,5 högskolepoäng, valbar*
< 1251840708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1251840733 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Örebro
< 1251840734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the context of computers, at least in that course name it is not "tolk"
< 1251840737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yes?
< 1251840754 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just thinking loudly
< 1251840764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, :P
< 1251840784 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's relatively central, right?
< 1251840789 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. in central sweden
< 1251840789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, eh?
< 1251840792 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horizontal-wise
< 1251840804 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh
< 1251840808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, google maps?
< 1251840809 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it?
< 1251840810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google earth
< 1251840828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, anyway a bit south of stockholm in the N/S direction
< 1251840845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and near the middle in the E/W direction
< 1251840849 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1251840864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, need to read up on geography :P
< 1251840874 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know my geography sucks :<
< 1251840901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, so where is Kiruna?
< 1251840909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :north or south...
< 1251840911 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...north :P
< 1251840914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... of the polar circle
< 1251840916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1251840917 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh
< 1251840930 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :North of the northern whateverthoselinesonthemaparecalled
< 1251840931 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think?
< 1251840940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whateverthoselinesonthemaparecalled <-- err?
< 1251840952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"on therma ???"
< 1251840959 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot the names of the lines
< 1251840960 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the map
< 1251840970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1251840979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well polarcirkel in Swedish
< 1251840985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1251840999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, North or south of Narvik?
< 1251841008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about relative Gällivari? (spelling?)
< 1251841010 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Narvik... I think I've heard of it
< 1251841025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yeah in norway
< 1251841052 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I don't really know, as I said my geography isn't really good :P
< 1251841053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, iron ore mines in Kirnua you know? Sent by train to Narvik, then taken away with ships
< 1251841059 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1251841061 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1251841074 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was in Abisko a few years ago
< 1251841078 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last summer, IIRC
< 1251841084 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I should know this better, I guess :P
< 1251841093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :narvik is north of Kiruna
< 1251841100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(time was out)
< 1251841104 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"."
< 1251841120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, also I was in Kiruna this summer. Never went quite as far north as Abisko
< 1251841155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, btw where is Göteborg relative Stockholm?
< 1251841160 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :South
< 1251841163 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N/S wise, that is
< 1251841164 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course
< 1251841169 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, west :P
< 1251841170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"of course"?
< 1251841176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1251841178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that of course
< 1251841193 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can take it granted that I know that Göteborg is on the western coast of Sweden :P
< 1251841194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, jönköping relative göteborg?
< 1251841203 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly east?
< 1251841209 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And
< 1251841212 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit... south?
< 1251841216 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though not a lot
< 1251841223 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is my guess
< 1251841235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, not a lot in that case, on this map I just double checked on it looked at the same level
< 1251841263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly slightly north, but not sure
< 1251841284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, where is Ekeby?
< 1251841284 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, I though they were pretty leveled
< 1251841287 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no idea
< 1251841302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, trick question. There are lots of places named ekeby :P
< 1251841321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google earth pops up 9. and I see two ones missing there at least
< 1251843194 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ö
< 1251843388 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251843448 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251843760 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1251845339 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251855352 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251855352 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251858333 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-185.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251859058 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251860093 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251860096 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251860119 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1251860563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1251862277 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251862535 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host)
< 1251864150 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251864761 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1251865779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251865787 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251865798 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1251866402 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1251866697 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251867012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will I be killed for using reinterpret_cast here? http://codepad.org/dCpL2Gmc
< 1251867024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1251867046 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, that will almost certainly do exactly what you don't want it to
< 1251867058 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably just want static_cast
< 1251867115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, but that would convert the float to an int that's just the float rounded down
< 1251867120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't help me
< 1251867126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what do you want then?
< 1251867146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be able to go to the next highest or lowest representable float
< 1251867236 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I don't think there's a standard way to do that
< 1251867255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try adding the epsilon value, but denormalized values will get in the way of that
< 1251867265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cygnus-software.com/papers/comparingfloats/comparingfloats.htm
< 1251867278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This means that if we take two floats in memory, interpret their bit pattern as integers, and compare them, we can tell which is larger, without doing a floating point comparison."
< 1251867304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of comparing, I want to go to the next or previous, but the idea was similar enough
< 1251867333 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but what if this change results in a change in the appropriate exponent?
< 1251867403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would mean that the next float wouldn't just be +1 in the representation, but + something larger? That would break my program :(
< 1251867414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1251867481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please enter the altitude: 2
< 1251867481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The shell below 2.0000000000 is 1.9999998808
< 1251867489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it looks as though it works
< 1251867555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... I guess that will work with IEEE numbers
< 1251867563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are two possible solutions if you encounter this problem. Turn off the strict aliasing option using the -fno-strict-aliasing switch, or use a union between a float and an int to implement the reinterpretation of a float as an int. The documentation for -fstrict-aliasing gives more information."
< 1251867575 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: use a union
< 1251867583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that may only apply to comparisons
< 1251867585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on
< 1251867601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works on my compiler as is, and I don't feel like trying to fix it for codepad right now
< 1251867608 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: /join geordi
< 1251867609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a union may be better than reinterpret_cast
< 1251867944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, as-is, it's still giving me predictions, and the emperical data so far seems to largely agree
< 1251867955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I should improve the model somewhat
< 1251867964 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: imo, you're better off picking a very low delta and a bigfloat
< 1251868000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither of those will help determine gravitational delay in Second Life
< 1251868014 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo
< 1251868099 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you see my PM?
< 1251869091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1251870573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: true, but what if this change results in a change in the appropriate exponent? <<< you mean the mantissa overflowing? the whole float range is ordered, that would lead to exactly what it's supposed to
< 1251870585 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251870613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but wouldn't the mantissa overflowing lead to the exponent only going up by one?
< 1251870617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1251870640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what you want, the leading one moving one left
< 1251870641 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1251870656 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251870671 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1251870671 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just a *2
< 1251870686 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the mantissa going back to 0 is a -2^(mantissa digits)
< 1251870691 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251870713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1251870763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x yyyy zzzzz means -1^x * 2^(yyyy - ...) * 1.zzzzz
< 1251870764 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it in memory?
< 1251870777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if yyyy grows by one, and zzzz goes to zero
< 1251870788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's 1.
< 1251870789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okk
< 1251870798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we get from 1.11111... to 2.00000, say
< 1251870863 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1251870885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, if they were infinite floats, then that would be wrong
< 1251870925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1251870928 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway gotta get going now
< 1251870949 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatons \o/
< 1251870975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the last lecture, i just spontaneously started dancing because they were so cool
< 1251870982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not
< 1251870983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ->
< 1251878399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1251878400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251878478 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251878478 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251878666 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1251882534 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251883856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/20090828/llvm-logo.png
< 1251883864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a bitchin' compiler infrastructure logo
< 1251883875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never want to use anything else
< 1251883918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks more like the "complexity of compiler design" from the dragon book.
< 1251884315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:51] AnMaster: and yes I know it is a game, I just wonder what element the title of that game refers too
< 1251884315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:51] AnMaster: to*
< 1251884315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a physicist or something. and it's a pun on, like, you know, dying. (disclaimer: I haven't played it, I'm just guessing)
< 1251884315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[04:50] Sgeo: Will I be killed for using reinterpret_cast here? http://codepad.org/dCpL2Gmc
< 1251884315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just for using C++
< 1251884338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's coming across as "If you fucking dare to use gcc I'll rip you to shreds"
< 1251884386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Apple is committed to full C++ support for Clang, and hopes to work out the remaining GCC incompatibilities during Snow Leopard's lifetime."
< 1251884387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1251884431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/20090828/xcode-error-2-clang.png ← this is pretty much enough to make me use xcode
< 1251884449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/20090828/static-analyzer.png ← Oh, you're kidding me.
< 1251884457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can't possibly work, it's too awesome.
< 1251884506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, apparently the shipped userland apps in Snow Leopard are compiled with clang.
< 1251884551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess that explains how they implemented blocks without tearing their hair out.
< 1251884577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's supported in gcc too
< 1251885309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But wait, there's more! GCD queues can actually be arranged in arbitrarily complex directed acyclic graphs. (Actually, they can be cyclic too, but then the behavior is undefined. Don't do that.)"
< 1251885737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/20090828/opencl-logo-150.png "OpenCL: Your GPU is sort of like a galaxy."
< 1251886365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm worried by stories of the key symbols wearing off the DAS."
< 1251886368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the Ultimate!
< 1251887231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why people find that worrying
< 1251887265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they care that much about their key symbols?
< 1251887643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like key symbols to me <3
< 1251887651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I imagine hunt and peckists bother :P
< 1251887686 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do hunt and peckists use nonstandard keyboards like the DAS?
< 1251887709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P
< 1251888369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have about 30 windows open right now
< 1251888371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should fix that
< 1251888388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I truly do need window manager GC...
< 1251888938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asset.soup.io/asset/0399/7711_459f_800.jpeg
< 1251888938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1251891656 0 :anm_ub!n=AnMaster@PC96-180.oru.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251891676 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh.... lost connection to home, I guess anmaster will time out soon
< 1251891733 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't have the nick pass around here
< 1251891734 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1251892313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1251892594 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thunderstorm here heh
< 1251893209 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1251893816 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1251893827 0 :anm_ub!n=AnMaster@PC96-180.oru.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251894097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we should use these for the uberrig - http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/09/01/petabytes-on-a-budget-how-to-build-cheap-cloud-storage/
< 1251894245 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1251894248 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1251895164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, if you select a non-linked url in safari and right click you can open it <3
< 1251895169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i know opera does that
< 1251896988 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251898102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-QJ4T3ix4c
< 1251899350 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1251899517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://glennbeckrapedandmurderedayounggirlin1990.com/ ;; Congrats, reddit. You just reached a new low.
< 1251899566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly it's funny.
< 1251899616 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251899768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION copies 4.68GB from a disk image to a harddrive
< 1251899781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it's moving filesystems or anything, but oh no :P
< 1251899782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1251899785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's moving filesystems
< 1251899787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not disks
< 1251899790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the filesystem TYPES are the same
< 1251899802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, one of the filesystems is an imaginary one...
< 1251902447 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251902447 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251903349 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal"
< 1251903364 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-185.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251905963 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251906437 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the static analyzer screenshot reminds me of drscheme
< 1251906443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah
< 1251906455 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but less ugly and well, static :)
< 1251906497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I truly do need window manager GC...
< 1251906509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you cover up a window completely, it disappears? :D
< 1251906588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:55:38 http://asset.soup.io/asset/0399/7711_459f_800.jpeg
< 1251906588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:55:38 ;_;
< 1251906608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the smell _does_ bring tears to your eyes. how did you know?
< 1251906675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : thunderstorm here heh <-- was here too tonight, and this morning
< 1251906703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ^
< 1251906819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 02:55:38 http://asset.soup.io/asset/0399/7711_459f_800.jpeg <-- XD
< 1251906826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi
< 1251906852 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-151-91.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251906879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster
< 1251907789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Totally.
< 1251908468 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251908941 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251909025 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee! My internets are working again :D
< 1251909133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1251909144 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251909612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1251909689 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-75.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251909698 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251909868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here seen ?
< 1251909872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails on at least two levels, quite possibly 3
< 1251910004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the daily wtf is hopeless nowadays
< 1251910011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember when they stole that name recently?
< 1251910014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the whole email exchange
< 1251910021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alex Papadimoulis is a dick
< 1251910044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So now that you've mentioned an arrangement other than me taking your name, idea and content and using them for my site without even crediting you, I'll conveniently talk about something else!"
< 1251910059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what name did they steal?
< 1251910083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming praxis
< 1251910095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally an arrangement with another site, programmingpraxis.com
< 1251910099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but alex refused to link to the site
< 1251910103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even mention its owner
< 1251910108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just stole the idea and even the content
< 1251910113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he thought he would be credited)
< 1251910122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, when asked to just change the name and move on
< 1251910129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said sorry; we've "used it for too long"
< 1251910135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they'll just have to share
< 1251910137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not exaggerating
< 1251910148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://programmingpraxis.com/2009/08/13/the-daily-wtf-maliciously-infringes-programming-praxis-trademark/
< 1251910154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :includes link to the email exchange
< 1251910197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that why the renamed it?
< 1251910201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*they
< 1251910226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: after it got on reddit and he tried to "clarify" (i.e. "Yes, I did it, but I'm not a dickwad... because!") and everyone, well, pointed out he was a dick
< 1251910227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably.
< 1251910635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It'll use about 400 000W, and cost $900 000."
< 1251910635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— 4 petaflop, off-the-shelf supercomputer http://helmer3.sfe.se/
< 1251910644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :donations now accepted :P
< 1251910665 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251911329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: our uberrig just got 1-upped
< 1251911331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑
< 1251911660 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251911711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Holy damn.
< 1251911719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even sort of fits into one structure!
< 1251911761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: note that if you just got 3 instead of 10 for 2pflops, it'd be "only" $270,000
< 1251911783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use "only" 120kw
< 1251911793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love their cooling design
< 1251911802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you made the enclosures transparent it'd be beautiful
< 1251911812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing the blue, glowing cooling fluid run all over the place :
< 1251911813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1251911816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P
< 1251911958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta like one of those old liquid cooled Crays
< 1251911964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for fishies
< 1251912876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm with alex on that one
< 1251912899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: on the other hand, you're an insane psychopath
< 1251912901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no worries :D
< 1251912997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worries are for suckers
< 1251913546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1251913551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1251913697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 hi
< 1251913707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I have to say hi again?
< 1251913734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES!
< 1251913737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1251913743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais hi 523
< 1251913746 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251913751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SB
< 1251913753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sb
< 1251913757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BS!
< 1251913793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you refresh a page after first loading it ~10 seconds ago and something new appears, it's eerie
< 1251913829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251913853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it?
< 1251913854 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251913858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it?
< 1251913867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was dumb
< 1251913872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i was just about to join with a new nick on the chan
< 1251913873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I mis
< 1251913875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1251913877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes.
< 1251913879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and? :P
< 1251913884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you'd only waited 30 seconds
< 1251913887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: one line from AnMaster, which he repeated when you turned back up
< 1251913889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refresh joke
< 1251913896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dun gedit
< 1251913897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you wanted it.
< 1251913910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopping ~ refreshing
< 1251913914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1251913920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, heh
< 1251913929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like SomethingNew
< 1251913963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're so incomprehensible, oklopol :D
< 1251913972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think that made perfect sense
< 1251913981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think about it a lot.
< 1251913997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean about 2 seconds?
< 1251914023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If I take the opposite position to ehird all the time, nobody will be confused as to how much I dislike him!
< 1251914024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was the obvious joke :P
< 1251914032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yep indeed
< 1251914059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's true i'm not exactly that good at having conversations with humans, i usually assume they can deduce context by reading my mind.
< 1251914063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um I think you got that wrong. 99% of the time it is you who is taking the opposite position
< 1251914081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How apropos of you to take the opposite position to what I just said.
< 1251914091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, when i suddenly start continuing a conversation that happened weeks ago
< 1251914101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I said 99%, not 100%. :P
< 1251914103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think that'd break the lawnmower
< 1251914104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,*
< 1251914146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : say, when i suddenly start continuing a conversation that happened weeks ago <-- sounds more like something zzo would do
< 1251914158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo never has conversations
< 1251914162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no context for that, but, i'm not saying it's because i can read minds, it's because i have sucky people skills
< 1251914163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just repeats a question over and over
< 1251914178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "sucky people skills" means you're shy or something, i just suck
< 1251914179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: have you considered using a pill instead of a lawnmower
< 1251914217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checked, no context for that
< 1251914230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:55] ehird: oklopol: I think that'd break the lawnmower
< 1251914231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail :P
< 1251914239 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1251914247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the first one and the second one together
< 1251914286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I was both continuing a week-old conversation and using the patented oklopol method of conversation that is "skip a bunch of logical inferences because I'm sure you can work them out" :P
< 1251914305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1251914309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can only do one at the time! :P
< 1251914320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the hair-dryer though?
< 1251914320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: OH YEAH? WELL WHAT DID I JUST DO THEN
< 1251914332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't funny when you continue the joke after the reveal
< 1251914345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the conversation
< 1251914351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what exactly would be wrong with that
< 1251914361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it just isn't funny
< 1251914370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: any!
< 1251914374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since when was that a goal
< 1251914387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well that's just stupid
< 1251914415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because otherwise it's just stupid ,and if you admit to trying to be stupid i will stab you.
< 1251914420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :(
< 1251914429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but I can provide inferences for all possible conversations
< 1251914459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw http://helmer.sfe.se/ is quite interesting too
< 1251914465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is same but without the 3
< 1251914476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute
< 1251914489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah exactly, there is a helmer2 too it seems
< 1251914507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like a budget :P
< 1251914585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, go to main page sfe.se and I think that explains it
< 1251914599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Very happy!! I had a very nice talk with AMD, and they are going to send some hardware so I can start testing :)) Thank you!"
< 1251914610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like people skills that good!
< 1251914612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i don't actively remember that many conversations, the human brain doesn't work that way
< 1251914834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nslu2windsensor.sfe.se/ <-- heh. this guy is cool
< 1251914835 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1251916407 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251916710 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To calibrate the wind speed sensor we just tejped it to the car and drove around."
< 1251916713 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tejped"
< 1251916895 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251917149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )"
< 1251917781 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1251918546 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tejp" in swedish means "Tape" (pronounced the same).
< 1251918833 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know :D
< 1251918846 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks very unfitting in an english context
< 1251918865 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :182 hits on google for "tejped"
< 1251919406 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-75.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251921806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me, or is it that most of the time people say "well gee I'm a sociopath", they mean "well gee I'm an asshole, but you can't dislike me for that, it's *medical*"
< 1251922760 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because I have never heard anyone say that
< 1251922799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have
< 1251923665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251923895 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009080315]"
< 1251924129 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251925647 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251925711 0 :exaltation!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251926061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the email log isn't there
< 1251926067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering how anyone could side with Alex
< 1251926928 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1251927750 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251927996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we seem to be getting a new sort of spam over at Esolang
< 1251928014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spambots are pasting Apache 404s onto Talk:Main Page/index.php...
< 1251929184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1251929217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is "broken spambot"
< 1251929229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they scrape their spam from a website
< 1251929242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam bots do all sorts of weird shit
< 1251930613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251931089 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251932412 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And for programmers the paradox is even more pronounced: the language to learn, if you want to get a good job, is a language that people don't learn merely to get a job." -- http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html
< 1251933003 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251933014 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251934490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: it isn't funny when you continue the joke after the reveal
< 1251934494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends, i say
< 1251934519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i enjoy reddit pun threads, so...
< 1251934521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: should I stab you for quoting paul graham, or stab you for quoting paul graham
< 1251934526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an important decision
< 1251934540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i suggest you stab him for quoting paul graham instead
< 1251934544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1251934548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs MizardX for quoting paul graham
< 1251934551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should feel bad.
< 1251934637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'd like people skills that good!
< 1251934650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean your own experiences are more like something out of dilbert?
< 1251934674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mainly guessing, there)
< 1251934674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu
< 1251934697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unrelatedly, what i meant by the message was "it sure would be nice if AMD sent me a bunch of hardware by asking them")
< 1251934714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 182 hits on google for "tejped"
< 1251934730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's an english suffix on a swedish word...
< 1251934828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tejpad, on the other hand, gives 32100
< 1251934854 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after 3, 2, and 1, it's hard to expect anything but 0000000
< 1251934873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a suggestion of did you mean "textpad"
< 1251934888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: dude, you're lament, not some freaky new person :P
< 1251934922 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi? do I know you?
< 1251934935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: whois don't lie
< 1251934939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a lamentable attempt
< 1251935030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he has, um, not yet achieved exaltation
< 1251935033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of... his goal
< 1251935037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : spambots are pasting Apache 404s onto Talk:Main Page/index.php... <-- you deleted the funny joke in the original spam :( ;)
< 1251935064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define exalted
< 1251935068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what was it?
< 1251935093 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1251935095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: something russian, i pasted the google translate yesterday
< 1251935120 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's russian, i can possibly do a better job than google translate.
< 1251935144 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the spam?
< 1251935148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh even _i_ can do a better job than google translate, in fact i submitted a suggestion to it
< 1251935150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi exaltation, I haven't seen you around for a while
< 1251935170 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1251935187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: ais523 deleted the page
< 1251935191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I think I mean "at all" rather than "for a while"
< 1251935194 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1251935203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can undelete it if necessary, but as it's spam, there's unlikely to be a need
< 1251935220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i actually pasted the russian version
< 1251935235 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the translation?
< 1251935283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : google's lousy translation: "The teacher asks Vovochka: - Little Johnny, why do you yesterday did not come to school? - Grandpa burns received ... - Oh! But seriously hurt? - Of course! In the crematorium are not joking."
< 1251935323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually i am _sure_ i did not paste the russian version, since that would have required unicode)
< 1251935330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: paste the russian plz
< 1251935342 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok
< 1251935346 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense
< 1251935359 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for how on earth could Vovochka become Johnny?)
< 1251935378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: approx date?
< 1251935391 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for russian
< 1251935413 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Вовочка, ты почему вчера не пришел в школу? - Дедушка ожеги получил... - Ой! А серьезно пострадал? - Конечно! В крематории не шутят.
< 1251935418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the russian though
< 1251935418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (little Johnny == Vovochka, except they're in different case and google only translates one of them fully to english)
< 1251935424 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go, that's the russian
< 1251935441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't it take like three clicks :P
< 1251935441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.08.31
< 1251935443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an older spam in russian, too
< 1251935447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dating from June
< 1251935461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was the old spam of that page i was talking about
< 1251935480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== Анекдоты == Учительница спрашивает Вовочку: - Вовочка, ты почему вчера не пришел в школу? - Дедушка ожеги получил... - Ой! А серьезно пострадал? - Конечно! В крематории не шутят.
< 1251935483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there it is, in full
< 1251935512 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pasted it first :P
< 1251935528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: you missed two lines at the start, though, so I thought I may as well do the whole thing
< 1251935574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, he got it exactly right
< 1251935587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: did you actually back translate that?
< 1251935593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is russian, no?
< 1251935599 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translated the punchline and googled for the rest to get it exact
< 1251935604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1251935607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :P
< 1251935618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater
< 1251935708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it in that log
< 1251935748 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the google translation is actually good
< 1251935751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :search for johnny
< 1251935752 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the broken grammar
< 1251935768 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it preserves the seriously hurt / not joking pun
< 1251935780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering what the joke is
< 1251935795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: wait, that was a pun?
< 1251935812 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Was he seriously hurt? - Of course, they're not joking at the crematorium"
< 1251935843 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pun on the two meanings of seriously
< 1251935896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pun works in Russian too?
< 1251935909 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1251935942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i'm not sure it really works in english (or the equivalent norwegian, which would be similar), because the adverbial phrase has a fixed meaning nothing to do with humor
< 1251935974 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it's better in russian, that's why it's a russian joke
< 1251935985 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the punchline itself is funnier in russian
< 1251935995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in English, it's a bad pun; I can imagine it would be a rather better pun in Russian
< 1251936003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1251936086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then i didn't notice the pun before exaltation mentioned it, and still thought it was funny)
< 1251936123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you know that joke about the two tomatoes which ends with "Come on, catch up"?
< 1251936166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been translated into norwegian as "Kom an, ketsjup", totally without any pun. Still makes children laugh. :D
< 1251936218 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with russian
< 1251936241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then makes adults groan once, after years have passed, they learn that it was originally an english pun
< 1251936261 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another great quote from the russian pulp fiction translation: "it's not a motorcycle, baby, it's a helicopter")
< 1251936268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you mean, puns are funny in translation even if they're no longer puns?
< 1251936294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sometimes the absurdity remains, or even gets stronger...
< 1251936316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now someone's going to have to translate some funny puns into English for me
< 1251936383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Two polar bears are in a bath.
< 1251936392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that the entire pun?
< 1251936393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One asks the other to pass the soap, and the other replies: "No soap, radio!"
< 1251936401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's *hilarious* in Lojban.
< 1251936402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: [[w:No soap radio]]
< 1251936404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats ehird -----###
< 1251936409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=No_soap_radio
< 1251936412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No shit :P
< 1251936416 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Poruchik Rzhevsky, tell us a pun! - Sure. Shitwise, brown; bodywise, white"
< 1251936417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the best answer to that joke in existence
< 1251936433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: howso
< 1251936470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upon reading that page, incidentally, I strained my mind to think of a situation in which that punchline was actually funny
< 1251936472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failed
< 1251936478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if there was one, it would be a great anti-anti-joke
< 1251936504 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody laughs at my pun :(
< 1251936536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Swede was pondering math. "It's called integral, but what then?"
< 1251936543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: it's interesting, but maybe not funny
< 1251936550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English, I mean
< 1251936558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks more like an intellectual exercise than a pun
< 1251936568 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Russian, "shitwise, brown" and "pun" actually sound the same.
< 1251936577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a popular norwegian joke about swedes because it's one of the few they cannot properly reverse on us)
< 1251936590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D
< 1251936611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers asking #lojban for some Lojban puns translated to English
< 1251936637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well popular among norwegian mathematicians, i guess there's some limitation there
< 1251936799 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:No_soap_radio#Slightly_funny_after_all.3F
< 1251936802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i cannot find it on google
< 1251936850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: the issue with that is that it isn't funny.
< 1251936866 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i think it's funny
< 1251936867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i find it funnier as a surrealist joke.
< 1251936898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION for once agrees with ehird that something isn't funny
< 1251936965 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny as a surrealist cojoke.
< 1251936986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co yourself.
< 1251936988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that be cofunny, rather
< 1251936996 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's cofunny.
< 1251937168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: new spam page
< 1251937182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Talk:W/)
< 1251937211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1251938123 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nighty
< 1251938133 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1251938211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251939131 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :exalt
< 1251939156 0 :exalt!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :orgasm
< 1251939157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he used to be an alt, but now he's a baryton
< 1251939275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes the english terms are not that
< 1251940495 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251940785 0 :orgasm!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament
< 1251940847 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-141-90.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251944267 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251944745 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251945160 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.135.38.134 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251945228 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1251945513 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1251948225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251948769 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251948908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes he's forgotten to eat
< 1251949289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: alto, baritone
< 1251950104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pesky suffixes
< 1251950119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely
< 1251950125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't even English words in the first place IIRC
< 1251950153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :music terms are italian mostly
< 1251950179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(classical)
< 1251950680 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009080315]"
< 1251952771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251952844 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251954841 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1251954933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1251955272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1251956321 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1251956323 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956323 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956323 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1251956324 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956325 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956325 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956325 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956326 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956326 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956326 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1251956327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1251956327 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956327 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956327 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1251956327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956328 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956328 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956328 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956328 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956328 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1251956347 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1251956347 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@67-40-212-106.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956354 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956354 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251956360 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956369 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1251956378 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956378 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956378 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956410 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.135.38.134 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956428 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956473 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956473 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956473 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956473 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956473 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956473 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251956626 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251958881 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1251959075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251959444 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251959788 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251960233 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251960262 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251960288 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1251960462 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1251960520 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251960520 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1251960603 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251960603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251960603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251960744 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251960744 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251960744 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251960748 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251960748 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251960748 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251960748 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251960748 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251960749 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251961926 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251961926 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251961926 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251962014 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1251962015 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251962015 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251962015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251962015 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251962738 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251962738 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251962738 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251962738 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251962738 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251962745 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251962745 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251962745 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251962749 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251963076 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009080315]"
< 1251963145 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251963146 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251963146 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251963146 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251963146 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1251963147 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251963147 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251963147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251963541 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251963541 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251963541 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251963543 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251963543 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251963543 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251963543 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251963543 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251963545 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251964799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1251964800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251965508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 182 hits on google for "tejped" <-- the English word would be "taped"
< 1251965559 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but a few hundred other swedes does not seem to.
< 1251965729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, wait you are a Swede too?
< 1251965731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1251965789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nåja, det var ju inte så svårt att lista ut vad some menades... Snarare vore det svårt för någon som inte kan svenska.
< 1251968899 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag tror alla utlänningarna också lyckades lista ut vad det betydde
< 1251969151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread "used to be an alt, but now he's a baryon". That sounds unlikely. "Composed mostly of baryons", maybe.
< 1251970381 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251973324 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-rxtnrfmenjtqqava JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251974618 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251975554 0 :FireFly!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-wkwvsbezdcjvozjn JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251975581 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-ggeahkbmnkhbjqqo JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251976885 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976893 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976893 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976894 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976894 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976895 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976895 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976895 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976895 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976895 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976897 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976897 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976897 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976897 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976897 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976898 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976898 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1251976918 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251976918 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251976918 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977158 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977186 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Killed by douglas.freenode.net (Nick collision)
< 1251977231 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-sfmrqcndvdoclkua JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977231 0 :FireFly!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-wkwvsbezdcjvozjn JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977277 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977282 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977291 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977291 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977291 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977291 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977291 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977294 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977294 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977294 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977314 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.135.38.134 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977314 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977314 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977314 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251977366 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251979363 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251979560 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251980176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251981297 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251981876 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251981879 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251982464 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251983895 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251984260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:12:31 Misread "used to be an alt, but now he's a baryon". That sounds unlikely. "Composed mostly of baryons", maybe.
< 1251984270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barons are just very big baryons
< 1251984278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is shot by oerjan
< 1251984347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No results found for "biggest baryon ever"."
< 1251984395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biggestbaryonsxxx.com
< 1251985003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tee hee, Christians are pissed off because Ricky Gervais is making a movie about a world where there's no lying. In it, religion does not exist.
< 1251985258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs himself some Windows 7 RC.
< 1251985264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on real hardware)
< 1251985620 0 :labo!n=labo@65-136-85-95.dynamic.stcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251985802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boots ubuntu to wipe partitions to install window
< 1251985802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1251985804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi labo
< 1251985969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could make a silly only-single-application-process version of Windows (like there was that "Starter" edition of vista with three-simultaneous-apps) and sell that under the brand name Window.
< 1251985987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1251986022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's a windows 7 starter too
< 1251986027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1251986028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will be
< 1251986076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251986508 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251986739 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251989546 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1251989755 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251990511 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251990526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know of an efficient way to rm a shitload of f iles?
< 1251990528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -r is painfully slow
< 1251990650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ext2, forcibly unlink the dir with debugfs and let e2fsck sort it out later. You'll end up with most of the files in lost+found, I guess, but you didn't specify you wanted a *good* solution.
< 1251990661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HFS+ :P
< 1251990670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm removing around 1,000,000 files
< 1251990672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1251990693 0 :labo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy everithing to a new FS :P
< 1251990705 0 :labo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(else)
< 1251990760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you happen to have a safe-for-directories unlink() syscall, I doubt you'll get it done faster than rm, discounting any solutions that involve creating a new file system.
< 1251990840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm freeing about 100GB of space so I can comfortably fit Windows 7 RC x64...
< 1251990852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there is a way...
< 1251990855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope a 32-bit game circa 1999 will work fine with it :P
< 1251990862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably, amirite?)
< 1251990867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not I'll just install 32-bit XP.
< 1251990868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/partition_in_question
< 1251990879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good one though
< 1251990880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eithger
< 1251990880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And crack it since it has a 5-install activation limit.
< 1251990881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either
< 1251990884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That does not delete X files.
< 1251990888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That deletes X+Y files.
< 1251990903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unless the set of files on the partition happens to be X
< 1251990996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, for the... second, I think, time since I've got this iMac, the widescreen is an issue.
< 1251991007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First time was a game... second time will be a game.
< 1251991007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh?
< 1251991011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn games! :P
< 1251991012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes...
< 1251991041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll buy an adapter from whatever display port of the week this iMac used to DVI and plug it into the old, crappy 19" LCD.
< 1251991042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I have non-widescreen on desktop and it is still an issue.... 1400x1050 isn't very common
< 1251991055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually I run the game in question in window-mode
< 1251991062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that doesn't solve the fact that it runs at, uh, 640x480 I think.
< 1251991072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well window mode should work fine for that
< 1251991073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I used to play it on that old 17" Compaq CRT.
< 1251991083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but there's a large nostalgia factor, and windowing ruins that.
< 1251991089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, black bars > desktop.
< 1251991092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less distracting.
< 1251991095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But neither are very good.
< 1251991111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well using 640x480 will frankly look like shit on any non-CRT
< 1251991113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this crappy 15" Axion CRT, but it'd need calibrating.
< 1251991128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The game doesn't exactly have spectacular graphics :P
< 1251991136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But indeed.
< 1251991136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm
< 1251991153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black boarders around 640x480 in the center of the screen?
< 1251991172 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: RACIST.
< 1251991180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's my current plan, but eh.
< 1251991190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only will it have LCD scaling artifacts, it'll be distracting.
< 1251991197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, ....
< 1251991226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, hmm, it might have a configurable resolution. Not widescreen though, obviously.
< 1251991231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that's sort of nostalgia-ruining.
< 1251991232 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Boarders" are people who pay to "board", i.e. live in your home :P
< 1251991247 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently AnMaster has a problem with black boarders.
< 1251991266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the resolution is configurable - there's a screenshot here of it running at 1600x1200.
< 1251991274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks upsettingly hi-def.
< 1251991294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, well it was pretty clear from the context that it didn't refer to that. I certainly didn't think of that meaning of the word before you mentioned it... though I have heard it before once or twice iirc
< 1251991307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Who wants to tell him you were joking?
< 1251991317 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that that's the only meaning of the word "boarder", you were looking for the word "border" :P
< 1251991326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, yes a simple typo
< 1251991332 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES.
< 1251991344 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What fun is the universe if I can't poke fun at a simple typo :P
< 1251991362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I am aware of that it could possibly be interpreted as funny by some people. However personally I wouldn't classify it as a joke
< 1251991381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some days I try not to be angry at AnMaster
< 1251991384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today is not one of those days
< 1251991389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SHUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP
< 1251991420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, in fact when I first noticed I had typoed with that a there I was thinking about if you could possibly be joking about pirates or similar
< 1251991426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1251991429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O
< 1251991437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they board ships don't they?
< 1251991446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did seem a bit far fetched
< 1251991455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's the Windows 7 in you that's making you not be unangry.
< 1251991457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't make a lot of sense in the context of "racist"
< 1251991476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I should install Windows 98 instead. :)
< 1251991485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure the sequel would run on that!
< 1251991489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SQL HUR HUR
< 1251991504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um... what? I didn't get that joke...
< 1251991556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean like that... right... not very funny. If you want to make a bad joke, why not attribute it to yourself... since I wouldn't have thought of that...
< 1251991588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, you'd have probably thought of something even less funny and signed it with a ;P.
< 1251991631 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-106-184.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251991672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was thinking of something like "why not xp?" followed by some joke about "experience" but I couldn't think of anything good
< 1251991682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still can't
< 1251991686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP will be what I'll try if Windows 7 doesn't work.
< 1251991713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I said 98 (which almost certainly wouldn't work on this iMac) because it was the latest Windows at the time the game was released.
< 1251991745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suspect using a vm would work better, unless it is 3D
< 1251991753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1251991756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm
< 1251991766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the sequel is also 3D, circa 2003.
< 1251991772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what game is it?
< 1251991796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_2:_The_Great_Escape. It's good. At least I think so, and that opinion may be tainted by having played it when I was a yung'un.
< 1251991817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played it for N years.
< 1251991825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:/] % sudo rm -rf Previous\ Systems.localized
< 1251991825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password:
< 1251991825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: Previous Systems.localized: Directory not empty
< 1251991826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ wat
< 1251991841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, .DS_Store.
< 1251991847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got created while deleting, presumably.
< 1251991856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD got to love OS X
< 1251991862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1251991875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, .DS_Store is a rather odd wart.
< 1251991896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_2:_The_Great_Escape#Voice_Cast ;; hahaha
< 1251991907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They just speak gibberish over the subtitles, at least in the PC version)
< 1251991910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, IDGI
< 1251991928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what is so funny about that section.
< 1251991931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They just speak gibberish over the subtitles, at least in the PC version)
< 1251991941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem like something worth hiring a voice cast over
< 1251991947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1251991950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Jack Black[citation needed] as Globox ;; really?)
< 1251991956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find *that* hard to believe
< 1251992004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gibberish like for example Donald Duck did in old Disney movies? Or even worse?
< 1251992035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Womi knee. Eksioo geh!" is a bad transcription of what I remember hearing.
< 1251992058 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251992063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth.. aspell doesn't think "movie" is a valid word...
< 1251992074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Film?
< 1251992083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merge those two damn dialect dictionaries.
< 1251992085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that the UK word? that
< 1251992092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuh
< 1251992109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well same as the Swedish word then.
< 1251992112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,*
< 1251992116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts boot camp assistant
< 1251992162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rendering bug or intended? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ratman_2.jpg
< 1251992166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A flaw of Rayman 2 that I did not realise until now: Sure, so the enemies are robot pirates. WHERE ARE THE NINJAS?)
< 1251992168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, missing arms and legs
< 1251992186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and err neck too it seems
< 1251992188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: His hair also functions as a helicopter-type spinny thing that makes him float.
< 1251992198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, he uses his body as a basketball if you don't press anything for a while.
< 1251992208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, er, yes, intentional.
< 1251992225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well... weird super powers isn't unusual... ;P
< 1251992243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you won't be surprised to know that he can form orbs of energy with his hand and throw them at things!
< 1251992292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, enemies can't hit what you don't have....
< 1251992301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that sounds like innuendo...
< 1251992319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some values of "innuendo"
< 1251992324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah.
< 1251992360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rayman 2 may be the game with the hardest final battle ever...
< 1251992519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1251992552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're on a weird thing that flies forward constantly, and you can turn up/down/left/right. If you bash into any of the walls, you die. If you fall into the lava, you die. If you bash into *anything*, you die. If you go up a tunnel that gets slimmer and slimmer there's an orb, which you have to pass going downwards, not going towards it. Then you get an orb on its exhaust, which you can then shoot backwards. You have to shoot it at both stilts (getting one t
< 1251992553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the end boss thingy is in, at which point he falls down a bit or something. Then you can hit him a few times before he goes back up. His health bar is almost the width of the entire screen and one shot barely affects him; yours is more like a quarter of the screen. If you die, you lose some health and he regains all his. Also, all this time, he is occasionally shooting ... something at you, which tracks you and makes you die if it hits you. You have to
< 1251992554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoot it or lose its trail, and this takes like 15 seconds.
< 1251992565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* one twice) tha
< 1251992570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got cut off.
< 1251992581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the second bit but it's comprehensible without (just lost an "either")
< 1251992593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stlts (getting one twice), to be specific.
< 1251992680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives Windows 64GB (so that OS X has 72GB free)
< 1251992838 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1251992844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1251992911 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1251992913 0 :Tobi_!n=tobias@dslb-092-072-141-179.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251992937 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1251993028 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251993135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing freezes when I try and resize my boot partition :-(
< 1251993143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe gparted will work.
< 1251993296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1251996215 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251996394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1251996411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster
< 1251996428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I see hello in scrollback too... Hi Tobi_ (whoever you are)
< 1251996449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tobi_ or not Tobi_, that's the question
< 1251996453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, gah
< 1251996459 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1251998173 0 :labo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1251998284 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1251999280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1251999522 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster
< 1251999534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1251999543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are new here?
< 1251999547 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1251999554 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY NEW PERSON
< 1251999558 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1251999581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just want to make one thing clear: this is about esoteric programming languages, not esoterica. A lot of people stray in here thinking it is about the other stuff
< 1251999590 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1251999595 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1251999597 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1251999671 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I joined the brainfuck channel this afternoon, as I am intrested in brainfuck, but it was pretty silent there so I decided to come here
< 1251999704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a separate channel? heh
< 1251999711 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always had
< 1251999717 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty ridiculous
< 1251999721 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^
< 1251999729 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how is this channel not about esoterica?
< 1251999733 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
< 1251999736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep hearing this "lot of people" stuff and have still to see anybody mistaking this for the other kind of esoterica
< 1251999767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I think it happend five times when I was reading the channel this summer.
< 1251999768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw one once.
< 1251999776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four or five
< 1251999781 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1251999820 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you are all esoteric programmers? :)
< 1251999827 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less
< 1251999859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1251999870 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about it in a magazine so I tried brainfuck
< 1251999893 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it a porn magazine?
< 1251999898 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not into that kind of brainfuck.
< 1251999901 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm..not really
< 1251999904 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1251999928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Well, I'm pretty sure we've had a few discussions of esoterica -- but that's just our studious devotion to not being on topic. :P
< 1251999944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what topic? ;P
< 1251999980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Esoteric programming languages.
< 1251999983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^
< 1252000027 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondered if there is any forum dedicated to esoteric programming languages
< 1252000042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sketchy idea for new esolang: something based on esoterica... taroc(spelling?) cards for representing the stack or something
< 1252000048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tarot*
< 1252000053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah
< 1252000061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: interesting
< 1252000073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the original word is something closer to taroc, IIRC
< 1252000074 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give a different meaning to each card
< 1252000076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then
< 1252000078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Tarot cards are not "based on esoterica", BTW.
< 1252000085 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a restriction that you can only use N decks
< 1252000090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "mumbo-jumbo"?
< 1252000099 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the challenge is to write a program that only uses N decks of cards
< 1252000100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though used in esotericism, they are primarily playing cards.
< 1252000121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, mhm. Shows how little I know about that sort of stuff
< 1252000147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with absurd amounts of esoteric symbolism added in, for odd historical reasons)
< 1252000154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, wonder if you could still make it tc... hm
< 1252000175 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not for any fixed N, no
< 1252000176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you would need some other storage form in addition for tc-ness then
< 1252000197 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it more like a golf challenge
< 1252000210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe you could use the heap of crystal balls or something
< 1252000211 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I wrote a bubblesort in 3 decks, can you do it in 2?"
< 1252000234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252000240 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then possibly you could analyze the program to predict your future
< 1252000246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, still need to work out some interesting semantics for it
< 1252000265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, it seems reasonable that program operation should somehow be affected by phase of moon
< 1252000282 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly
< 1252000290 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your date of birth
< 1252000292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that wear wolfs?
< 1252000302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling
< 1252000310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :werewolf*
< 1252000319 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the currently active zodiac sign
< 1252000338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, isn't that related to bad newspapers?
< 1252000401 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astrology?
< 1252000404 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really its fault, is it?
< 1252000416 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astrology doesn't concern itself with bad newspapers
< 1252000422 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad newspapers concern themselves with astrology
< 1252000431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, well, I was trying to make a joke about the horoscope column found it some (many?) newspapers
< 1252000664 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252000711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, wait what about making it so that the program had to select a date for which the horoscope did what it wanted? Would of course be incredibly hard to write anything in it :)
< 1252000712 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252000720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could store it as zero size file
< 1252000752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modification timestamp could encode the date or something
< 1252000782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no, you need creation date too, and at least *nix systems doesn't store that...
< 1252001163 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, that's cute
< 1252001229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, do astrology care about location too?
< 1252001235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does*
< 1252001315 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so
< 1252001328 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only about the local time
< 1252001359 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the exact position of the planets at the moment of birth
< 1252001373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, in UTC?
< 1252001385 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm, that's not local time. But I think local time is important too, somehow - perhaps I'm wrong)
< 1252001440 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1252001443 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wp says, "The horoscope serves as a stylized map of the heavens over a specific location at a particular moment in time."
< 1252001446 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :location matters
< 1252001447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, but timezones are mostly political inventions...
< 1252001465 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have a sample
< 1252001466 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A horoscope calculated for January 1, 2000 at 12:01:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time in New York City, New York, USA (Longitude: 074W00'23" - Latitude: 40N42'51")."
< 1252001517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, ok so file format is trivial: \n and encode the period the horoscope should be made for as the modification time stamp
< 1252001541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that
< 1252001546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no real creation time, but there's ctime, which is almost as good. You'll just have to make sure to preserve it.
< 1252001589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ctime isn't creation time indeed. However I always fail to remember what exactly it is instead
< 1252001612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inode-status-change-time; though it's standardicity had some problems. It might not have been quite well-specified.
< 1252001647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctime's usually updated by changes in owner/group/mode and such.
< 1252001677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for idiomatic coding in this language the programmer should actually visit the location at the specified time and create the file then!
< 1252001695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, most programmers wouldn't do it the idiomatic way.
< 1252001770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, not very many bits in the typical timestamps, not too many different possible programs. Though maybe if you allow unlimited precision in the GPS coordinates.
< 1252001810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also btw how is the conversion from date/time/location to "Avoid tall strangers. A fried is important to you. ..." work?
< 1252001822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup table?
< 1252001881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trade secret.
< 1252001896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are many lookup tables involved, I believe.
< 1252001985 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't believe in astrology; I'm a Sagittarius and we're skeptical." - Arthur C. Clarke (No idea about the origin or exactness of the quote.)
< 1252002014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1252002043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Each planet has its own aspects and influences, much like the signs. How the influence is exerted upon the subject depends on which sign the planet appears in, which other planets are present and if the planet is in retrograde motion. The positions of the planets relative to one another are important, as are various angles and mathematical calculations based on all of these factors."
< 1252002067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That gives you a lot of possible numbers, each of which you can probably then look up in suitable books.
< 1252002124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retrograde motion?
< 1252002199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Having constructed the horoscope, the astrologer can begin the task of interpreting the chart. This interpretation depends upon which branch of horoscopic astrology is being used."
< 1252002203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia
< 1252002207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252002276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving "backwards" w.r.t. everything else; obviously only when viewed from some particular place, in this case Earth.
< 1252002286 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_retrograde_motion is the type of thing they mean.
< 1252002293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the algorithm described on wikipedia reminds me of a cipher...
< 1252002331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those that use a weird table and with multiple rounds
< 1252002484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The apparent backwards-going is what makes life difficult for all those people who insist on placing the Earth in the center of the solar system.
< 1252002504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that... sounds familiar
< 1252002550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By this time each planet had been provided with from 40 to 60 epicycles to represent after a fashion its complex movement among the stars. Amazed at the difficulty of the project, Alfonso is credited with the remark that had he been present at the Creation he might have given excellent advice." quotes wikipedia on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferent_and_epicycle
< 1252002558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yet astrology wouldn't care at all about a comet on collision course with earth? Surely that should end up as "you will likely have a bad day today"?
< 1252002559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1252002701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of stuff on the sky they don't care about.
< 1252002746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Pluto's other dwarf planet friends.
< 1252002770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, pluto isn't even the largest dwarf planet iirc?
< 1252002783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eris has more mass, yes.
< 1252002845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth did "Eris" make be think of esr...
< 1252002861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a bit further away, though, so I think it might have less of a gravitational influence. Still, at perihelion it seems to be closer than Pluto at aphelion.
< 1252002898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err? closest point? and point furthest away?
< 1252002906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252002917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you look them up? ;P
< 1252002967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't really avoid that, since those are the terms used in the heavenly-body info-box.
< 1252002979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252003275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case.. let's see, Pluto has some 1.3*10^22 kg at 6*10^9 metres, so F = G*m1*m2/r^2 means the gravitational attraction between Pluto and a rather largeish 4-kg newborn is... about 100 nano-Newtons. The same force would be caused by Earth's gravity if you put a "brick" weighting 10 µg on the baby.
< 1252003318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's not about gravity, it's about "influence" by some other, more inexplicable means.
< 1252003335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the non-planets just don't have that special something.
< 1252003465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, maybe they are counting Eris. Wikipedia's Astrology page lists as data-sources "the astrological planets, dwarf planets, the asteroids, the stars, the lunar nodes, Arabic parts and hypothetical planets."
< 1252003600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Arabic parts"?
< 1252003614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what hypothetical planets?
< 1252003673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arabic parts are some sort of derived points from multiple things-in-the-sky, it seems. And there are quite a lot of hypothetical planets.
< 1252003682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just like real planets, except they don't, you know, exist.
< 1252003704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's Lilith, for example, Earth's second moon.
< 1252003719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may not have noticed it; it's quite sneaky.
< 1252003747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with all the sats and debris up there now I wouldn't be surprised if they formed a second moon at some point ;P
< 1252003767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one has about the same mass as the real Moon.
< 1252003770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shouldn't astrology track that? After all it is a LOT closer
< 1252003778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we've hauled that much stuff up there yet.
< 1252003791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe it is made of that infamous dark matter?
< 1252003811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "mostly invisible", but I can't quite seem to find out why.
< 1252003821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly because the idea makes absolutely no sense.
< 1252003843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just so dark, it seems.
< 1252003853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how insane on a scale from 0 to time cube?
< 1252003888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a Time Cube scholar, but pretty insane. Though I guess second-moonism isn't any stranger than flat-earthism.
< 1252003942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what happened to ehird... didn't he said he would just resize some partition? that was quite a while ago...
< 1252003972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some partitions man was not meant to resize.
< 1252004016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah I think macs have EFID partitions or something
< 1252004023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait
< 1252004026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I messed that up
< 1252004033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUID partition tables, but EFI partitions
< 1252004095 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252004099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about the Intel macs; the old "Apple Partition Map" mess was big enough.
< 1252004161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? I have used OS 9 but I never messed with the partitions on it... 3.2 GB harddrive. more than one partition would have been pointless
< 1252004169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tell me about this interesting mess
< 1252004245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I had that MkLinux-booter-based Debian on my PPC mac. It's just that there's more partitions than one would think would be necessary; the partition map itself is a partition, for example. And there were some kinds of I-don't-know-how-it-works "driver partitions".
< 1252004262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the partition map itself is a partition, for example" <-- sounds kind of neat...
< 1252004286 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the PPC-iBook's partition table, as seen from mac-fdisk in Ubuntu, is still quite complicated. I could check it out if you're interested.
< 1252004300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and the driver partition hm... I remember that you had a "update disk drivers" option or something in the disk tool thingy on old macs
< 1252004317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what it did
< 1252004397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Often the first partition on a SCSI disk, following the partition map, is the driver partition that contains the actual device driver used to communicate with the disk. (There is, however, no requirement that the driver partition be the first partition on a disk.)"
< 1252004419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how is that driver loaded.... I see a bootstrapping problem here...
< 1252004466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you load it using the openfirmware-forth-based driver directly provided by the device, or some such trick.
< 1252004473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know the details, though.
< 1252004489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of device-driver-trickery was used by the Sparcs, anyway.
< 1252004514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sounds plausible. boot loader on x86 uses bios to load the kernel (which usually has it's own driver later on)
< 1252004585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's just even cleverer since you can put the FCode (their forth-bytecode) driver directly on ROM on the device -- it's not like it's very many bytes -- and then use that for rudimentary access. And of course the driver you can read from the disk is then the sensible higher-performance one.
< 1252004619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the FCode driver's platform-independent, so the same thing would work on Sun systems and Macs.
< 1252004701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess EFI has some sort of similar bytecode-based thing, actually.
< 1252004779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so you would need different harddrives for sparc/ppc than traditional x86?
< 1252004788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I thought it was for disk controller
< 1252004804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the bit on the mobo that talks with the disk using ATA commands
< 1252004810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or SCSI or whatever
< 1252004868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for pci based scsi controllers or such, a forth based "basic firmware" would indeed make sense
< 1252004961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The firmware stuff was used in PCI card devices in general. I'm not quite sure what the exact deal is with disk controllers, I guess their drivers are in the firmwarey parts anyway, and can be used to load the driver partition.
< 1252005843 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya
< 1252005858 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252005888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is jitfunge dead or?
< 1252005910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not dead which can eternal lie.
< 1252005973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I am slightly hopeful that I could get something done on that front, now that I've gotten the thesis stuff out of the way.
< 1252005989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nice
< 1252006009 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we will see a JIT TRDS one day
< 1252006139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does TRDS require that the interpreter supports t?
< 1252006159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but you can't really do much with it without t :-P
< 1252006209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, would mycology gracefully handle a interpreter with TRDS but without t?
< 1252006230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycotrds requires t right at the start IIRC
< 1252006241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1252006254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it won't infini-loop or something silly like that
< 1252006275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but of course you can jump to the past and do stuff without having t
< 1252006285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1252006286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if you've implemented that, t is probably one line of code
< 1252006309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to make a DS9K, implement TRDS but not t :-P
< 1252006349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and then show it to Mike Riley?
< 1252006356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want
< 1252006383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some time
< 1252006417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you don't have to track IP IDs since all IPs will have the same ID
< 1252006601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw would you say icc or gcc is best in general?
< 1252006608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it comes to optimising
< 1252006645 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I haven't used icc much and I haven't compared C/C++ compilers at all, really
< 1252006667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume icc is better on intel cpus... and that is true for cfunge on my old pentium 3... but for my core 2 duo laptop... gcc is more than twice as fast
< 1252006691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, gcc produced binary
< 1252006713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not compile time
< 1252006715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume that they're different and there's no "in general" winner :-P
< 1252006774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but I wouldn't have expected such a large difference... but then it seems that for more long running programs the difference is much smaller. Possibly icc has a lot more setup code before it gets to the actual program
< 1252006829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They implement somewhat different optimizations in different ways *shrug*
< 1252007917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw... does course literature writers in US get paid by the word or something? Course literature in English seems to be pretty verbose, while ones in Swedish seems to be trying to pack as much knowledge into as few pages as possible instead.
< 1252007972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this observation is based on a total of 6 books in math and programming, three of them in English)
< 1252008003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and personally I would prefer something between those two extremes)
< 1252011877 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252012274 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252012720 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252013915 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252013991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly, my partition surgery worked perfectly, first time
< 1252016630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252017066 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252017491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder when http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI will change URI :P
< 1252019143 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252019148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1252019205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes the moon is fuwuoowoooowooooooooo, er full
< 1252019249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keys are like right next to each other.
< 1252019261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of them
< 1252019308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bash.org/?901460 ;; this is a bash quote approved THIS YEAR
< 1252019329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone want to tell them that there's only ONE apple computer-related product you can buy with one button?
< 1252019344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's their budget notebook?
< 1252019344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/5jxA3.png
< 1252019351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I linked that earlier
< 1252019353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't get through
< 1252019359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:39] ehird: surprisingly, my partition surgery worked perfectly, first time
< 1252019359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:02] ehird: http://imgur.com/5jxA3.png
< 1252019360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not with that URL, at least
< 1252019363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf @ those times
< 1252019365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, didn't get through
< 1252019367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DID THAT HAPPEN
< 1252019370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:39 → 22:02
< 1252019373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1252019382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the clocks just change on me or something? :P
< 1252019398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I had the worst ntp lag evar
< 1252019424 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first time was right, at least
< 1252019425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-03 23:39:57 ( ehird) surprisingly, my partition surgery worked perfectly, first time
< 1252019460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. I was pretty worried about that, incidentally, since at the end I discovered amongst the details that growing the filesystem to fit the new partition wasn't supported
< 1252019464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for HFS+
< 1252019467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems to have worked
< 1252019474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can install windows at my leisure
< 1252019487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to sell me a crappy CRT? :-)
< 1252019533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(right clicking on my disk, an entry is "duplicate". I am tempted to ask it to copy my disk to itself by clicking...)
< 1252019543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, it complains that the disk is in use
< 1252019565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there's the old black and white tv in the closet, it's _really_ crappy
< 1252019583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it has a VGA port
< 1252019588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1252019590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I kind of want colour :P
< 1252019604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you _did_ ask for crappy
< 1252019610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well
< 1252019632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CRT I used was a second-hand Compaq V70
< 1252019659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling, a site claims its max resolution was 1280x1024; bullshit. With PowerStrip I got like ... high resolutions.
< 1252019676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it was flickery as all fuck, and text was so small as to be unreadable, but I got used to it because MOAR PIXELZ.
< 1252019717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"17-inch (15.67-inches viewable)" —Business Wire, July 22 1996, on that monitor
< 1252019742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it refers to it as value-line
< 1252019743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much sums it up
< 1252019777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it displayed pixels blurrily. at 120hz no less if you used 800x600 or lower
< 1252019788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:07:09 lament, do astrology care about location too?
< 1252019790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was barely *any* flicker!
< 1252019790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252019818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when can I expect a b nomic horoscope?!
< 1252019823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ascendant and the houses in particular
< 1252019839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fully expect your personal interpretation of it, too!
< 1252019863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could just download astrolog like i did for agora, assuming it still exists
< 1252019875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interpretations were autogenerated by it
< 1252019876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you forever tainted it with that bitingly sarcastic page!
< 1252019883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its aura is now unaligned; crooked.
< 1252019887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252019894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, B Nomic needs a sincere eye
< 1252019922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc the horoscope will inevitably be "You are what the fucking christ jesus get therapy man."
< 1252020091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm fourth anniversary that would have been 1997
< 1252020098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :within my atheist period
< 1252020162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why the file dates are 2002 - oh right, that's when i had to move things out of the math institute account
< 1252020272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in other words, don't expect quite the same level of sarcasm from me today)
< 1252020575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also btw how is the conversion from date/time/location to "Avoid tall strangers. A fried is important to you. ..." work?
< 1252020583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoid tall fried strangers
< 1252020601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might be grumpy after frying
< 1252020625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I said it because of the top header
< 1252020641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(30 June 2007: The ruleset links below have long since gone stale, but Agora still lives on at www.agoranomic.org. Oh, and since my views on divination have changed since then as well, it was only appropriate synchronicity that I did not remember what day this was until after I decided to finally follow Zefram's suggestion to make a note about the new site.)"
< 1252020688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, you can buy one of Unicomp's Model M clones in black, with blank black keycaps
< 1252020699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :das keyboard is instantly obsolete
< 1252020739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: said _what_ because of the top header?
< 1252020748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: asking for a b nomic horoscope
< 1252021063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile,
< 1252021112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the secret lair of Dr. Evil,
< 1252021219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his real-o-matic detects a fourth wall infraction.
< 1252021239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://store.theonion.com/che-wearing-che-t-shirt-t-shirt-p-172.html ;; GregorR, you know what to do
< 1252021330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean we want a picture of GregorR wearing the GregorR wearing the GregorR t-shirt t-shirt.
< 1252021337 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252021344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking more like making a shirt of that shirt
< 1252021345 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed Che wearing Che wearing Che wearing Che wearing Che ...
< 1252021347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, that works too
< 1252021353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: oh, infinitely would work also
< 1252021365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps alternating with Che...
< 1252021366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the infinitely small ches might start demanding equal pixel rights
< 1252021375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: YES
< 1252021392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(real) gregor wearing che wearing gregor wearing che wearing ironic hipster tshirt
< 1252021395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, not that last part.
< 1252021464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yawns
< 1252021487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting tired at midnight is becoming irritating
< 1252021500 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i might buy that che shirt :(
< 1252021508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I'll try and eke an hour or two more out of the day to mess up the schedule to make it more fun
< 1252021513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that's so unhappy? :(
< 1252021519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They're just like real planets, except they don't, you know, exist.
< 1252021528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astrolog supported quite a few of them iirc
< 1252021529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXISTENCE IS OPTIONAL
< 1252021534 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "YOU ARE DUMB" one, hehe
< 1252021552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with options
< 1252021594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: http://store.theonion.com/good-day-to-go-sailing,-if-youre-a-dick-new-p-1025.html is far more classy than "YOU ARE DUBM"!
< 1252021624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAFARI HISTORY SEARCH WISHLIST
< 1252021636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Don't freeze for seconds every time I type a character.
< 1252021643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(end of file)
< 1252021874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, with all the sats and debris up there now I wouldn't be surprised if they formed a second moon at some point ;P
< 1252021937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the low orbit ones are mostly within the roche limit, but the geostationary orbit at 36000 km might... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit
< 1252022017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether it's possible to hack up a notebook with a custom keyboard
< 1252022184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`!haskell 20000/pi
< 1252022185 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1252022191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 20000/pi
< 1252022209 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6366.197723675814
< 1252022312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs windows 7
< 1252022351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252022684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252023349 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252023548 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252023551 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252023565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fop dop mop
< 1252023628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hop top lop
< 1252023632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I stop myself from asking stupid questions?
< 1252023635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1252023655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn on your deduction circuits
< 1252023657 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sew your mouth shut.
< 1252023664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also turn off any lingering ADHD transistors that may be firing
< 1252023697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't. you just rise to a higher level where the questions are so clever other people don't realize they are stupid.
< 1252023708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing me I'm going to install this and the game won't be compatibl
< 1252023709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1252023714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I can trivially put XP on instead
< 1252023722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so most of the work won't have been wasted if that's the cas
< 1252023723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1252023734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the danger here is not to end up in time cube land, it's nearly the same direction
< 1252023750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-not
< 1252023753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(right now i'm running a windows program with wine remastering a windows 7 RC x64 install CD using my already-burned copy that needs a 64-bit EFI, which I don't have)
< 1252023800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's just got to be a yo dawg in there somewhere
< 1252023808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like an oh gawd
< 1252024209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My homework: http://codepad.org/F8rBjCL3
< 1252024313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Sgeo's world, we are all intimately interested in the trivial C++ he was told to write
< 1252024323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah yeah pot kettle :))
< 1252024403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: This image contains filenames and/or directory names that are
< 1252024404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NOT COMPATIBLE with Windows NT 3.51. If compatibility with
< 1252024404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Windows NT 3.51 is required, use the -nt switch rather than
< 1252024404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the -n switch.
< 1252024407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes!!!111
< 1252024769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION brunz
< 1252025415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define brun
< 1252025416 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Bruno, Brun, or Braun (died 2 February 880) was the Duke of Saxony from 866 to his death. He was the elder son of Liudolf, progenitor of the ... \ [23]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brun_(Saxony) \ * Bruun is a family name of Nordic origin. The meaning is brown (brun in Danish, Swedish and Norwegian). ...
< 1252025421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burn
< 1252025421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252025438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yawns a lot
< 1252025448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sir Yawnsalot
< 1252025457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or...
< 1252025461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIR YAWNSABUTT
< 1252025462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahdahsdskgdk;jlfl;
< 1252025463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' q
< 1252025477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that settles it, you are overly tired
< 1252025553 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252025562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :)
< 1252025564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1252025569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tired, yes, but not overly
< 1252025574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38
< 1252025578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have no opinion either way
< 1252025588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that joke? don't be ridiculous.
< 1252025588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wanted to preempt any questions :P
< 1252025621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preempted before prompted
< 1252025624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is to be noted that most of the time, only my externalities are ever tired; internally I'm still comprehending properly but, you know, my fingers just type "yawnsabutt".
< 1252025637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that said, buttman, he has a cape and a butt,.
< 1252025690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while you are dreaming, it's all making sense too
< 1252025701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessir
< 1252025721 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In GameBoy codes, is it a good idea to make the background pattern tile $9C instead of tile $00, that's what I use for the clear-screen subroutine, it uses $9C (can you figure out why without looking at the code?)
< 1252025739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have already answered
< 1252025750 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not asking you specifically.
< 1252025753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252025757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this amuses me: http://blog.wolfram.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/manipulate2.swf
< 1252025843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs windows 7 rc... again
< 1252025865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252025876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing some GameBoy programs, maybe I can also make a brainfuck interpreter on GameBoy (I could make it compiled into Gameboy codes, make each brainfuck command []+-<>,. compiled into a RST command)
< 1252025905 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other esolangs would be a bit harder though, but some of them can probably be done
< 1252026192 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ can become 34 - can become 35 < can become 2B > can become 23 . can become C7 , can become E7
< 1252026206 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252026281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that a mediocre victory beats no victory, puts XP cd in
< 1252026301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's not a pyrrhic one
< 1252026420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252026731 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does x86 not have $00 is NOP but GameBoy does?
< 1252026822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you actually _want_ $00 to be NOP? it would mean if you accidentally jumped into zero-initialized memory you would just zip past it, perhaps into some real code...
< 1252026849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better to make it an exception of some kind...
< 1252026880 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252026898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that i know what $00 actually does on x86 or anywhere else)
< 1252027181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (KH)(A)(:*)(:*)::**^^(N!)**S
< 1252027181 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
< 1252027372 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X86 has 00 00 be one of: ADD [BX+SI],AL (16 bit addressing), or ADD [EAX], AL (32 bit addressing). X64 64-bit mode has it ADD [RAX], AL
< 1252027481 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exactly it is is affected by address size but not bitness (since it happens to be byte-sized operation involving memory access).
< 1252027514 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, 00 00 00 00 in MIPS is a NOP.
< 1252027898 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X86 primary NOP is $90, which actually is instruction to swap value of AX/EAX with AX/EAX.
< 1252028053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I want $00 to be NOP is having to do with a code I wrote for copying a string to the display, the code is simplified when $00 is NOP
< 1252028072 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now, see if you can figure out why I want $9C to be the background. (Think of it)
< 1252028117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reply anyways, I will read the logs later"
< 1252031145 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-107-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252031389 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252031411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows installed, now I just have to driver it up
< 1252031415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then install 5 billion updates
< 1252031490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya!
< 1252031496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252031509 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252031896 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252032185 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252032451 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252032821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspect the flu is brewing within him
< 1252032835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice having known you all
< 1252032840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suspects
< 1252032862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oink oink oink
< 1252032866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restart time
< 1252032881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252032911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks, living this once was more than enough...
< 1252033245 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252033774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252035251 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252036261 0 :ehird!i=5b6948c3@gateway/web/freenode/x-wogjwcprcgzvhtab JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252036276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi@
< 1252036277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi!
< 1252036278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from windows
< 1252036285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves
< 1252036286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's...surprisingly snappy
< 1252036296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the boot camp drivers are really good!
< 1252036327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if virus scanners are even worth bothering with, if you use a decent browser and don't do stupid stuff...
< 1252036337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that is probably being too optimistic about security flaws in windows
< 1252036366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, this is actually quite pleasant. chrome is nice
< 1252036411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I swear this is snappier than Safari/OS X, which makes me sad.
< 1252036459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is dangerously close to liking windows here...
< 1252036577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's great so long as you don't try to use it for anything
< 1252036580 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a dual-boot myself
< 1252036595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: true; I know Windows is always snappy to start with
< 1252036604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real issue is that Windows bogs down far faster than other OSes
< 1252036606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is the first time it's actually flown
< 1252036763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe someone should scientifically investigate how windows bogs down and write a daemon that stops whatever it is. :P
< 1252036784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Windows always works the same for games, I find, so that's alright.
< 1252036816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I *still* can't figure out how anyone could like the fisher price Luna interface over classic.
< 1252036829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, cleartype is still unreadable and ugly.
< 1252036850 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mostly it's daemons I think
< 1252036862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252036869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "Luna" interface
< 1252036871 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252036881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default blue interface
< 1252036894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the olive isn't even an interface as opposed to a pukefest
< 1252036899 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with that
< 1252036900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the silver is half-passable
< 1252036909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I'm not a big fan of classic
< 1252036909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but similar enough to classic that you might as well save the system resources
< 1252036918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1252036922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted pretty, I'd reboot into OS X
< 1252036926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252036935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although windows 7 looks alright
< 1252036949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oxygen hits a nice balance... functional, but not blocky
< 1252036957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and quick launch + the taskbar is still superior to the dock.
< 1252036972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though the Windows 7 somethingdockbarthing is even more superior.)
< 1252036982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has yet to try 7
< 1252037015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I tried it in a VM (and so lacked a bunch of good features that require a halfway decent GPU) and it was good.
< 1252037027 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if the Linux developers could get themselves organized enough for something like the somethingdockbarthing
< 1252037032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was better than every other Windows before it, which is a feat.
< 1252037041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Misnomer - "the linux developers"
< 1252037051 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: exactly
< 1252037057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone builds it for, say, Gnome, then you could propose for Gnome to use it by default.
< 1252037067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is the application writers
< 1252037074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs application support
< 1252037076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest I'd use Windows 7 fulltime if I didn't know programming for it would be a bitch
< 1252037091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: try ubuntu sometime, y'know? Linux doesn't suck any more
< 1252037098 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's what I'm doing
< 1252037102 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, +k
< 1252037103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right then
< 1252037112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: There's your problem :P
< 1252037114 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252037124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders whether Windows Live Messenger is hideously bloated enough to explode on his system.
< 1252037138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Pidgin is le crappy on Windows, and Miranda IM is fiddly to set up.
< 1252037149 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chatzilla works pretty well
< 1252037157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chatzilla does not talk to MSN, and bitlbee sucks.
< 1252037164 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean MSN
< 1252037170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For IRC I'll probably use mIRC or something.
< 1252037179 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders at the mention of mIRC
< 1252037198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, don't knock mIRC. The scripting ... thing is an abomination, but it's a sturdy little... thing.
< 1252037199 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... what's with your version string?
< 1252037211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freenode's fucked up webchat thing
< 1252037220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use mibbit, but they blocked it because FREENODE IS RUN BY RETARDED MONKIES.
< 1252037220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CZ has JavaScript; though I've never actually tried to use it
< 1252037247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, Chrome is unreasonably responsive
< 1252037256 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you are on Mozilla, AppleWebKit, "KHTML, like Gecko", Chrome, and Safari
< 1252037257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I've just upgraded my internet connection
< 1252037268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: uh, that's what User-Agents are like
< 1252037275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all browsers do that
< 1252037285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but not all at once
< 1252037291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: nope
< 1252037299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE is also Mozilla "compatible", for instance
< 1252037303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because of version sniffing
< 1252037317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mozilla" is sniffed for "not IE", so it goes in
< 1252037323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AppleWebKit is, well, WebKit
< 1252037336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"KHTML, like Gecko" is KHTML and getting Gecko-specific stuff since it'll probably work
< 1252037339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome is because I'm using chrome
< 1252037346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Safari is because Chrome uses WebKit, like Safari
< 1252037350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus the sniffers are satiated
< 1252037351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1252037398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, my disk is F:!
< 1252037419 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1252037420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the EFI partition thing is C:, some empty space would be D: but isn't because it's empty,
< 1252037423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X is E:
< 1252037425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is F:
< 1252037430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's empty space that would be G:
< 1252037461 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is happy with Windows not having access to the ext partition
< 1252037471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it hasn't mounted OS X
< 1252037476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just assigned it a drive letter in the installr
< 1252037476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installer
< 1252037481 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1252037484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it would figure out how to talk to that partition later :-P
< 1252037488 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an IFS module for it?
< 1252037497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Boot Camp 3 with Snow Leopard has that or something
< 1252037520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, it may not be a great idea - Windows can't do Unix permissions and itself pretty insecure
< 1252037525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirc looks... worrying bloated
< 1252037536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*worryingly
< 1252037759 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252037764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252037767 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird
< 1252037827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1252037838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1252037862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pon
< 1252037866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1252037870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay
< 1252037872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nice linespacing
< 1252037875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now can I change this font
< 1252037877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate terminal :P
< 1252037881 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're dropping the last character off every sentenc
< 1252037900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is a known proble
< 1252037910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1252037914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: am I?
< 1252037934 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think s
< 1252037941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i checked the logs.
< 1252037943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not
< 1252037950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weir
< 1252037952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, foiled agai
< 1252037955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm this is fixedsys, not terminal
< 1252037957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: stoppit.
< 1252037963 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww
< 1252037990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, a reason to hate windows: no, Arial is not an acceptable font to ship in place of something like Helvetica
< 1252037993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:|
< 1252038000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we would have got away with it if not for those meddling log
< 1252038086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size 9 courier new seems acceptable when not antialiased
< 1252038102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads windows live messenger against his better judgement
< 1252038120 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't!
< 1252038124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you really need all that stuff while on Windows?
< 1252038125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: why not?
< 1252038133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it on the insistance of a friend. It didn't work
< 1252038134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like you are planning extended trips, are you?
< 1252038141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: considering I'm booted into it, it'd be nice to use it
< 1252038146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I am the epitome of laziness
< 1252038168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is more lazy than ehird!
< 1252038169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, clicking things on windows goes faster. my lazy organ has a vested interest in keeping me here.
< 1252038173 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which... shit... homework]
< 1252038185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: weeeeeeeeeell?
< 1252038191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is this all an attempt to get some game working?
< 1252038192 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because windows live messenger is evil :(
< 1252038203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: the protocol or the client?
< 1252038214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that is the original intent of this escapade, yes.
< 1252038220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P
< 1252038224 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the client is what I was referring to
< 1252038244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's it evil? i mean it sucks yeah
< 1252038246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know _that_
< 1252038253 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always "install a virus scanner! look at my advertisements! look at msn today! get a webcam!" :(
< 1252038260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the ads right, point taken
< 1252038261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use instead, anyhoo
< 1252038266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm out of the loop with windows... thingies
< 1252038275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I ended up renaming the executable, since its starting up was causing me pain and misery
< 1252038277 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm too lazy not to use it :D
< 1252038279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I was in this circle miranda IM was the thing, and FUCK is that client a FUCKING BITCH to install
< 1252038283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay not install
< 1252038284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1252038287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get it halfway usable
< 1252038288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all
< 1252038292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hated Miranda IM
< 1252038292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requires at least an hour of effort
< 1252038299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you had it working, coo, coo, great
< 1252038308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just spend 94837593457 hours on an underfeatured client
< 1252038311 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a program called apatch that will remove the advertisements from it, and possibly the virus scanner requirement
< 1252038311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BET YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF
< 1252038319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who remembers msn plus!
< 1252038331 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have a virus scanner, you're quite limited in file transfers :/
< 1252038332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember using some tool that did stuff with AIM
< 1252038335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, grr, mIRC's inconsistent copying behaviour
< 1252038357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: holy crap chrome is fast
< 1252038357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was testing something that was a bunch of insults based on a s/n
< 1252038364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it opens up as soon as i leave go of the icon
< 1252038367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sending it to myself, then my friend's sister IMed me
< 1252038371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every page so far has loaded as soon as i release my click
< 1252038372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dayum
< 1252038382 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2 is the number of times I raped your sister" was sent to her, iirc
< 1252038389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: xD
< 1252038419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew, chatzilla :(
< 1252038427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, use Silverex
< 1252038444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtk is conspicuously non-native. also xchat kind of sucks.
< 1252038453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1252038457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with gtk-wimp it'd be more native i guess
< 1252038478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really feel like supporting the xchat team's money-grabbing, evil windows binary payment scheme though, by using their product
< 1252038492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, GTK-Wimp looks hot
< 1252038521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what gimp on windows uses and stuff.
< 1252038526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like, uhh, windows.
< 1252038538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: does live messenger uninstall without sacrificing babies?
< 1252038548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so my lazy organ is directing me to the install button.
< 1252038574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, deleting msnmsgr.exe or renaming it is enough to prevent the evil from starting up
< 1252038589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it in add/remove?
< 1252038590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, that's typically true of viruses too, if you find all the places they're hidden
< 1252038595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure, haven't checked
< 1252038600 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uninstalls fine
< 1252038602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome complaint: checkboxes and the arrows on scrollbars don't show up when using Classic.
< 1252038609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former being far more major than the latter.
< 1252038645 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't serious with the "dont!" thing really, it's almost usable these days
< 1252038648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252038654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it use a lot of system resources?
< 1252038659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm cherishing this snappiness
< 1252038667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an aside, it sure was nice to have bootcamp install every driver for me
< 1252038685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just clicked next and sat there on my ass for five minutes while it reeled off a list of drivers it was installing, then ping!
< 1252038726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently i'm on service pack 2
< 1252038732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it be trying to upgrade me to 3...
< 1252038753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's set to download updates at 3am
< 1252038762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes that to download em for me and let me choose when to install
< 1252038778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: "installing microsoft choice guard"
< 1252038791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does not sound like a thing that i want on my disk.
< 1252038799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Microsoft, I do not want to use bing or MSN
< 1252038800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you
< 1252038812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD
< 1252038816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT FORCES CLEARTYPE
< 1252038818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY EYEEEEEEEES :P
< 1252038834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it doesn't look to bad with segoe ui, still.
< 1252038847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the dancing messenger people icon
< 1252038850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't that in, like, msn 5
< 1252038860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember using msn 5!
< 1252038863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it SUCKED.
< 1252038887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, okay
< 1252038888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those adverts
< 1252038889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this shit
< 1252038890 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft choice guard sounds about as honest as trusted computing
< 1252038892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uninstalling now
< 1252038898 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://apatch.org/
< 1252038904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the window chrome looks like vista
< 1252038906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fuck that shit.
< 1252038931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OBLITERATE IT ALL! ALL OF IT! ALL!"
< 1252038960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.marcocantu.com/blog/microsoft_choice_guard.html
< 1252038980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil.
< 1252039001 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Real Player?
< 1252039004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft will truly never get it, will they
< 1252039047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, first order of the day: replace mIRC
< 1252039056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, apparently, it could end up fighting malware, or end up fighting anti-viruses?
< 1252039064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maybe* silverex.
< 1252039099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does hydrairc suck or not? it looks like it sucks but you can never tell with windows.
< 1252039128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey wait
< 1252039132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limechat is available for windows
< 1252039160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although apparently only in japanese >_<
< 1252039175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs silverex
< 1252039186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Chat 2 no longer uses GTK+ Runtime EnvironmentGTK+ libraries are included in installer. You may use system's GTK+ runtime, thoughdeselect GTK+ durint X-Chat install.
< 1252039190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs a system-wide gtk
< 1252039194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, you know, fuck such things.
< 1252039209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also god damn, why hasn't anyone told me how amazing chrome is?
< 1252039319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh
< 1252039324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to install separate gtk
< 1252039377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uninstalls mirc
< 1252039380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252039624 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252039629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unsurprising
< 1252039636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the MS-Windows theme doesn't actually use native widgets.
< 1252039644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, menus don't fade in.
< 1252039650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is arguably an improvement :P
< 1252039757 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they supposed to
< 1252039764 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be something I disable :)
< 1252039770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I disabled that now :P
< 1252039785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not menu shadows though.
< 1252039789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like menu shadows.
< 1252039857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, this'll do.
< 1252039889 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Slide open combo boxes" is the worst one though.
< 1252039889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1252039895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you disable this thingy
< 1252039896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1252039897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it
< 1252039902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where minimising goes to the tray
< 1252039903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in xchat
< 1252040000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap, the volume buttons work and display a fascicile of the volume control HUD thing on os x :)
< 1252040004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uglie rtho
< 1252040006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uglier tho
< 1252040041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, current task: get myself an IM client
< 1252040106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252040142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess pidgin might be acceptable on windows these days...
< 1252040150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth a try
< 1252040228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: is it true that windows really does not have global spellchecking?
< 1252040254 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252040264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'm hating it a bit now
< 1252040276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i have to quit this because it's using gtk while gtk is installing because of pidgin SHOCK HORROR ->
< 1252040279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252040282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-F doesn't work in xchat
< 1252040283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
< 1252040289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252040438 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252040467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of satisfied with this, I guses
< 1252040468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess
< 1252040526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally -
< 1252040532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rearrange items on your hard disk to make programs run faster"
< 1252040542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to fix up a website that I strongly disagree with
< 1252040543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best way to say "Defragment disk" ever, or best way to say "defragment disk" ever?
< 1252040550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use Java for pretty buttons!
< 1252040550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: define fix up, define this website
< 1252040566 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stop them using Java to display fancy buttons
< 1252040568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theprophecies.com
< 1252040576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAGE
< 1252040578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Chat can't
< 1252040579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And get rid of that useless page with Next->
< 1252040580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open links
< 1252040581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one click
< 1252040594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you perhaps expecting better of kooks?
< 1252040709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm just so opposed to the horror, I feel compelled to do something
< 1252040722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: do you fathom at all why clicking the "updates! installlllll meeeeeeeeeee" icon makes it disappear then bother me soon after with no change?
< 1252040722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be easy to fix it up, just a little, and email the pages to the webmaster
< 1252040735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: dude, these people are clinically delusional and insane
< 1252040739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ignore them
< 1252040814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this considered attempting to convert me? Because she said she wouldn't
< 1252040815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/zkp5rajablwpfxdwm8cqg
< 1252040818 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no idea
< 1252040864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: dude, stop talking to these people
< 1252040883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as pointless as trying to reason with a mental inpatient except they're socially acceptable, thus bolstering their delusions
< 1252040892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to try to debate her
< 1252040893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may find more productive conversation in avenues such as "a brick wall"
< 1252040908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there is a fundamental gap in the religious mind between people and the unsaved
< 1252040923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is unlikely you will get anywhere without them first converting you unless they think it'll help convert you
< 1252040924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is there a reason why you don't believe in God? (I am not going to judge you or try to convert you I am just very interested in people and what they believe and why they believe it. After all everyone has faith in something)"
< 1252040932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disclaimer: by religious i mean fanatical here
< 1252040955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: believe that if you want /shrug
< 1252040988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs windows update as a stopgap
< 1252041109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know, I'm the one who started the conversation. I asked her what she does at church
< 1252041139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so you know, you're fairly obviously trying to twist what I say in the direction you want it to go
< 1252041200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what direction do I want it to go? I'm not [consiously] trying to twist anything, I think
< 1252041284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'she won't try and convert you, she'll respect whatever you say' etc
< 1252041288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------------------------
< 1252041288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Service Pack 3 Setup Error
< 1252041288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------------------------
< 1252041288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is not enough disk space on F:\WINDOWS\$NtServicePackUninstall$ to install Service Pack 3. Setup requires a minimum of 4 additional megabytes of free space or if you also want to archive the files for uninstallation, Setup requires 4 additional megabytes of free space. Free additional space on your hard disk and then try again.
< 1252041289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------------------------
< 1252041291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1252041293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------------------------
< 1252041295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1252041297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the partition is 64gig
< 1252041317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w 58g free
< 1252041472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Galactic size partitions, now!"
< 1252041473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1252041486 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange.
< 1252041867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs other updates first
< 1252041878 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"."
< 1252041930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Download size (total): 34.9 MB
< 1252041930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Estimated time at your connection speed: 1 hour 0 minutes"
< 1252041939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo broadband? :P
< 1252042366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I think this conversation is starting to take a turn towards conversion talk. If you're ok with that, I'm ok with it. If you're not ok with it, feel free to ignore the rest of this email, and we'll change the subject."
< 1252042376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a good way to begin this email?
< 1252042588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what you're doing Sgeo?
< 1252042590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking stupid questions.
< 1252043145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252044403 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252044992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that disk space thing was an efi-relate issue.
< 1252044993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d
< 1252044994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed.
< 1252045253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252045695 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252045719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fo2b2
< 1252047295 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252047477 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he left before i could ask him if she's hot
< 1252047676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1252048138 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-cabpylqfajnkblot JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252048246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252048350 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252049715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i guess i have to install emacs if i want a decent haskell editor on win32 :)
< 1252049793 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /ban ehird
< 1252049796 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1252049801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally man.
< 1252049901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows, emacs... nazism...
< 1252049909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rape...
< 1252049913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gay marriage...
< 1252051199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252051200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252051327 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252052301 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252052326 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is bored waiting for something to compile ...
< 1252052484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider flying.
< 1252052568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what esolangs do you prefer anyways?
< 1252052608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the traditionals: underload. unlambda. weirder: uhh, every single oklopol language
< 1252052615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, redivider is sorta fun too.
< 1252052633 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the deal with Unlambda anyways?
< 1252052648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, paintfuck is fun too
< 1252052651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: whadyamean
< 1252052700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's nothing I hate more than a hypocrite, and I'm currently running emacs on windows so feel free to stab me.
< 1252052739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the windows is relatively old... though that wasn't by choice
< 1252052748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost enough to make a man believe in synchronicity
< 1252052760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole synchronicity.
< 1252052945 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatively old? what version?
< 1252052961 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, XP can be considered relatively old although I find that ludicrous)
< 1252052966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP
< 1252052973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2002 is plain old, but it's SP3
< 1252052975 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not so old
< 1252052977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just relatively old
< 1252052981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SP3 was just this year or so, right?
< 1252052985 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even SP2 was 2004 :-P
< 1252052988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true
< 1252052999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Vista was a major reworking and 7 was a further refinement
< 1252053004 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I still use much much older software
< 1252053006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think old is solely time-based
< 1252053019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: well, I installed this to use some old software
< 1252053021 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, Vista regressed in a lot of ways
< 1252053023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's a game, so that doesn't count
< 1252053030 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does
< 1252053030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes, but it's still change
< 1252053047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: not really, because games don't get updates that make them "work better"
< 1252053050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond initial bug fixes
< 1252053058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no "made the plot less obtuse at this point"
< 1252053068 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the game :-)
< 1252053080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess for commercial stuff, probably not :->
< 1252053090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true :P
< 1252053116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but damn, you windows guys are lucky for having a polished Chrome
< 1252053125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridiculously polished
< 1252053135 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know
< 1252053139 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs pretty well
< 1252053143 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster than Firefox
< 1252053156 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster than firefox ON WINDOWS!
< 1252053168 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've improved it a lot for other OSes lately, though
< 1252053171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like 2-3x faster than safari/osx in realtime, and feels like 5x faster than safari/osx subjectively
< 1252053192 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari and Chrome both use Webkit, I think
< 1252053201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252053213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's the javascript engine, the drawing code, ...
< 1252053218 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, V8 (or whatever) is also a lot faster (x86, ARM) although Safari always bragged about speed
< 1252053236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, browsers don't just render a page and draw it all in the same way
< 1252053243 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to be completely honest, I think they used MSVC, which believe it or not may actually be better than GCC in some optimizations (don't ask me why!!!)
< 1252053277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love GCC to death, so it kinda annoys me that MSVC somehow does something better, and I personally refuse to use it (too bloated, annoying, non-compliant, etc.)
< 1252053280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it makes a difference at such a high level
< 1252053287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But gcc is kind of... crap
< 1252053296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's free and supports a lot, that's all it has going for it
< 1252053296 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not crap, just weird, hard to maintain, etc.
< 1252053310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad code, not very good optimisations, compiler itself is slow, etc.
< 1252053313 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, MSVC only targets x86 (and maybe ARM?), so it's probably easier to work on
< 1252053317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's gpl3.
< 1252053320 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler is very slow
< 1252053322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm/clang = <3
< 1252053325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 4.2.1 and newer are v3
< 1252053335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple are moving to llvm/clang totally for future os x
< 1252053344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the bundled apps in snow leopard are compiled with clang, IIRC
< 1252053351 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? huh
< 1252053358 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew they employed the Clang dude
< 1252053363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a pretty major leap from "experimental, might work" to "hey! let's compile the apps in our large-market commercial OS with it"
< 1252053369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: LLVM is pretty much an Apple project
< 1252053378 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, FreeBSD 8 also imported Clang into their CVS tree
< 1252053390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :om nom nom nom
< 1252053393 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started out separate from them, though, they just pay the guys to keep working on it
< 1252053407 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, GCC is damn slow, very annoying, but oh well ... what can ya do?
< 1252053429 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWatcom is faster but slightly worse optimizations
< 1252053436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even "old" GCC 3.4.4 is twice as fast
< 1252053473 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to say some of that is all the constant garbage collection, but I think that's less of an issue
< 1252053474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, apple software update, I do not want to install itunes or quicktime for windows because they are SHIT on windows
< 1252053480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like that driver update, however
< 1252053486 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70 MB updates every freakin' time, so annoying ...
< 1252053490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please do not tick both of them at once. It's sleazy.
< 1252053494 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252053512 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, didn't Chrome just pioneer some ultra-good update compression diff thingy? (better than bzdiff or whatever)
< 1252053523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for binaries only, iirc
< 1252053525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use it for updates
< 1252053528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth
< 1252053546 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as you know, Chrome auto-updates on the fly all the time
< 1252053559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it?
< 1252053565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool. also creepy.
< 1252053567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also cool.
< 1252053580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why he can't seem to put Windows into inverse letterbox mode
< 1252053589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4:3 res on 16:10 display; black bars at either side)
< 1252053600 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a way :-)
< 1252053601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I get the equivalent of the (stretched) variant of the resolutions from OS X)
< 1252053611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: it probably involves downloading some crappy shareware or something
< 1252053621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly easier to buy a 4:3 monitor.
< 1252053822 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I meant, "Unlambda probably requires somebody who knows what the hell lambda calculus is, eh?"
< 1252053912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean somebody not retarded?
< 1252053914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops disregard that
< 1252053922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252053964 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you gotta admit it looks tough
< 1252053970 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, so did Befunge until recently :-)
< 1252053994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :```sk`````sk (not exactly clear cut, IMHO)
< 1252053995 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1252054024 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, one guy wrote an Unlambda interpreter in sed (!)
< 1252054162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I see your drivers are being updated! FOUND NEW HARDWARE. FOUND NEW HARDWARE. FOUND NEW FUCKING HARDWARE, DAMMIT! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!
< 1252054174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank god I have the sound muted, at least.
< 1252054260 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you used Vista before?
< 1252054275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: not that i know of, but I'm fairly familiar with it despite that.
< 1252054282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1252054302 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252054330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252054351 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suspect you will hate it
< 1252054355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more annoying
< 1252054367 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although you could technically turn off UAC)
< 1252054393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I toyed around with Windows 7 RC for a bit (I was going to try Windows 7 RC x64 first, but had issues with the 64-bit part; so I fell back to XP)
< 1252054398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UAC is fine, really
< 1252054402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was significantly worse in vista
< 1252054421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically the same as e.g. ubuntu's administrative privileges dialog, from what I can tell
< 1252054431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, restart time!
< 1252054433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252054543 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252054546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear bluetooth thingy
< 1252054551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove bluetooth icon means do that
< 1252054554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't sit around there.
< 1252054612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1252054615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disappear :|
< 1252054663 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I guess it's (semi-)moot how well / badly Vista behaves now that Win7 is out ... but then again, there are a lot of pre-existing copies, and not everyone will upgrade (e.g. me)
< 1252054685 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't upgrade from XP anyways, gotta clean install
< 1252054710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it disappeared
< 1252054711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy day
< 1252054717 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they nickel-and-dime us to death again with various restrictions depending on version purchased (e.g. no XP mode for home users)
< 1252054748 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear that 64-bit Windows works fine assuming you have suitable drivers
< 1252054831 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vista has a different driver model, and some computers don't have XP drivers (I think)
< 1252054852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xp mode is kind of useless though
< 1252054856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since... everything works with vista
< 1252054862 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ... hell no
< 1252054869 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of stuff still doesn't work with Vista
< 1252054878 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't as big a fan of Windows as you think
< 1252054889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, the circa 1990 windows-shipped utilities you use every day to calculate 2+2 probably don't.
< 1252054892 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a lot of MS software initially didn't work on Vista !!
< 1252054919 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS finally rewrote Calc for Win7 (it'd been more-or-less unmodified for a billion years)
< 1252054953 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as for Freecell in Vista, finally got overhauled (apparently the same as the Win32s version from before 1995 or so)
< 1252054988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1990 probably had a lot of good software although 386s and 486s were the best out at the time
< 1252055000 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win 3.0 came out in 1990 (heh)
< 1252055001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using windows, w-w-w-w-indows 386
< 1252055007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all my applications are running at once
< 1252055032 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using Win NT 5.1
< 1252055045 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win NT 3.1 was from 1993 or so (I think)
< 1252055051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have seen that video right?)
< 1252055052 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.0 was from 1996
< 1252055057 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252055066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4915875929930836239
< 1252055073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is an official microsoft promotional video
< 1252055107 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen the MS-DOS 5 video? :-)
< 1252055129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so. also ballmer yelling to advertise windows
< 1252055132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, this takes the cake
< 1252055162 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way, MS-DOS 5 was extremely cheesy
< 1252055174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: this isn't just _cheesy_, no no
< 1252055175 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a freakin' (white) rap video 8)
< 1252055182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this *warps reality*
< 1252055209 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfpYrem94q0
< 1252055223 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 mins?? wow, long...
< 1252055227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's worth it
< 1252055242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a clipped version of the last, crack-headed 7 minutes, but that doesn't let you lure you in with some semblance of sanity
< 1252055345 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1252055355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cassettes? omg ... :-))
< 1252055431 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows/386 must be 2.1/386 (I guess??)
< 1252055444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows
< 1252055450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it overlaps windows
< 1252055452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll see
< 1252055483 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win 3.0 (1990) could still run on an 8088 / CGA
< 1252055492 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1 required a 286, and 3.11 (WfW) required a 386
< 1252055521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used 3.11, but it wasn't for Workgroups.
< 1252055614 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was obviously before MS stopped working on OS/2
< 1252055630 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm guessing this is Win2.1
< 1252055641 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(blind guess, never used that version)
< 1252055705 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I guess this is the lame part (she's singing)
< 1252055711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of it's lame!
< 1252055718 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think the MS-DOS 5 one is much lamer
< 1252055722 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch it! :-)
< 1252055740 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell did it zoom to her face???
< 1252055750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like he's watching a bad porno)
< 1252055763 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, she changed clothes
< 1252055772 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very 80s
< 1252055801 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy synth
< 1252055860 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are they dressed like barber shop quartets??
< 1252055927 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumbs up
< 1252055935 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's what she did)
< 1252055963 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, sorry, the MS-DOS 5 one is much lamer/funnier
< 1252056005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're crazy :P
< 1252056085 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, you've seen it AND disagree?
< 1252056093 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause if you haven't seen it ...
< 1252056099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've seen it
< 1252056112 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gimme five (gimme five)"
< 1252056129 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :him rapping with the backup singers
< 1252056147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1252056223 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, you don't have to watch it again just on my account, but it was definitely funny
< 1252056313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ridiculous how choppy windows get if you move them
< 1252056323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'mon, microsoft, it's like 2001 when you did this shit
< 1252056331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have buffering!
< 1252056506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees a lot about using putty as a cygwin shell, but not as a gnuwin32/whatever shell...
< 1252056545 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I've only ever used PuTTy for telnet (Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup)
< 1252056568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like I said, WinNT is much older than 2001, so lots of it are left over from before, so it's not always so hugely modern
< 1252056573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i anticipate myself itchin' for some command line action, and cmd.exe, well, sucks.
< 1252056589 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the lite/free version of 4NT (I forget its name)
< 1252056605 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or obviously install Cygwin (Bash)
< 1252056618 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin supports other shells too
< 1252056619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm a unix kind of guy!
< 1252056621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo
< 1252056624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin's ports are non-native
< 1252056629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, it isn't so much the shell
< 1252056630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the terminal
< 1252056633 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're native, just slow due to API emulation
< 1252056640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i.e., not native
< 1252056642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no
< 1252056652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a definite disrepancy between cygwin world and windows worl
< 1252056652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d
< 1252056658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin has X11-based terminals, anyway, but eh
< 1252056660 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then try MSYS
< 1252056673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msys's terminal is just cmd.exe, iirc
< 1252056688 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, never tried it, but they claim it can run "configure", which is no small feat
< 1252056701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you fail to differentiate "terminal" and "shell"
< 1252056710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no it's not; configure has 50000000 lines of crap to deal with rubbish shells
< 1252056786 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, they avoid a lot of specific stuff if they can
< 1252056832 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, it could be a lot more DOS friendly, and I'm not even sure it would work as is (well, it definitely won't, but that's due to a pressing bug, there are probably loads of other issues too for "pure" DOS)
< 1252056852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs mingw/msys as a first stage
< 1252056867 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still say Cygwin would be good enough for your needs, esp. if you're such a *nix nerd
< 1252056871 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that slow, believe me
< 1252056874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used cygwin before
< 1252056881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not dismissing it based on anecdote
< 1252056890 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just to tie in with the configure subject, they claim Autoconf 2.64 is 30% faster on Cygwin now
< 1252056896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the problem with unxutils?
< 1252056898 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, you're smart, I see that :-)
< 1252056904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gnu utils, running natively on windows, compiled with mingw
< 1252056913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why i'd choose cygwin over that
< 1252056921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the larger selection of packages, which doesn't matter when I just want a shell and some tools
< 1252056931 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause Cygwin probably runs better, more fully-featured
< 1252056940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unxutils are the full things
< 1252056947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly the same gnu tools
< 1252056955 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me, a Cygwin compile of Bash is probably loads less buggy than a MinGW one
< 1252056973 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU is very POSIX-oriented, and Cygwin is POSIX while MinGW isn't at all
< 1252056979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/
< 1252056982 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP is more POSIX than MinGW
< 1252056984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not talking about some random no-name project
< 1252056985 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I've seen it before
< 1252056987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is well known
< 1252056994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need lots of hacks without POSIX
< 1252057001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots!
< 1252057011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let's put it this way: if i ever need to type /cygdrive, it's disqualified :P
< 1252057033 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 'cygpath' is the way around that
< 1252057036 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure)
< 1252057058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, here's a good reason against unxutils:
< 1252057060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Last change on 30-04-04 by Karl M. Syring (bug reports are welcome)"
< 1252057073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm sure it's not that old
< 1252057081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252057082 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never know, it might be
< 1252057084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last updated march 2007
< 1252057085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems
< 1252057090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't too bad
< 1252057097 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bash 3.0 was from 2004, but 3.2.48 (or whatever) was this year (before 4.0, of course)
< 1252057128 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :March 2007 could mean anything, probably a lot still going on behind the scenes
< 1252057134 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just no "official" release
< 1252057140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html ;; gee, a separate project with the same name
< 1252057143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not confusing at all
< 1252057143 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know of several projects older than that, heh, but still updated)
< 1252057149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I didn't mean it like that
< 1252057154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, it's not that old [the latest update]
< 1252057161 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's old enough to worry, though
< 1252057173 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unless you encounter a bug or lack of feature, it's not an issue
< 1252057193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first things first, mingw
< 1252057197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can depend on mingw :P
< 1252057207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, barely
< 1252057209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now do I want to install mingw and whatever it is in the same tree or not...
< 1252057212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252057214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so
< 1252057216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less PATH cruft
< 1252057224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F:\gnu, I guess
< 1252057250 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want a shell, eh? could probably just use Eshell in Emacs
< 1252057296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell != termina
< 1252057296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l
< 1252057309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal = graphical program that executes a shell and lets you type into it, scrollback, etc
< 1252057320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell = program that parses commands and executes them
< 1252057329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal example: cmd.exe the graphical app, bash, zsh
< 1252057332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252057334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252057341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal example: cmd.exe the graphical app, xterm, rxvt
< 1252057351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell example: cmd.exe the thing that the graphical app runs, bash, zsh
< 1252057388 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you said you were running Emacs on Windows
< 1252057402 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try "M-x eshell" before you say it's not a shell / terminal :-)
< 1252057422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eshell is both
< 1252057425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1252057438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ehh, M-x term is as far as I'll go
< 1252057457 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"M-x ansi-term" also exists
< 1252057462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it isn't very emacsy
< 1252057532 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252057617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Spawning child process: invalid argument"; no emacs term for me
< 1252057656 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a Lisp bug (which should be reported so it can be fixed)
< 1252057669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if not already in CVS)
< 1252057682 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what version? (hopefully 23.1)
< 1252057882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacsw32, the emacs patched from like june or something
< 1252057927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PuTTY terminal emulation is not too shabby; if you want something seriously non-mainstream, I would assume installing some suitable SSH server and using "ssh localhost" with PuTTY would be that.
< 1252057946 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I've (barely) heard of Lennard's "EmacsW32"
< 1252057951 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but June means it's probably 22.3
< 1252057961 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, or a CVS snapshot)
< 1252057968 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23.1 came out on July 29, I think
< 1252057983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cvs snapshot
< 1252057984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally
< 1252057986 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using the official Win32 compile from GNU's FTP
< 1252057991 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23.1
< 1252057997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final
< 1252058010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we have to fight to the death now.
< 1252058065 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1252058071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://code.google.com/p/puttycyg/
< 1252058085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: project not dead; stable version just old)
< 1252058090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if I point it at mingw it'll work.
< 1252058126 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last updated Aug. 10, so that's good to know
< 1252058150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least win2k had a built-in telnet server for running the cmd.exe over telnet. I don't think it worked very well (if at all) if you happened to have a console application that actually did something more cursor-control-oriented.
< 1252058153 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/emacs/windows/
< 1252058206 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 MB download (if you want to "upgrade" to 23.1 final)
< 1252058265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, ti wants cygwin dll
< 1252058323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does?
< 1252058326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puttycyg.
< 1252058354 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can download it separately, lemme find the link ...
< 1252058385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it implise that puttycyg uses cygwni spawning functions to worka
< 1252058390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus would fail
< 1252058400 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cygwin.com/snapshots/
< 1252058423 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm telling you, GNU projects are *heavily* POSIX-oriented
< 1252058432 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Windows does not have decent POSIX support
< 1252058442 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no fork, for instance)
< 1252058474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm well aware.
< 1252058484 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay ...
< 1252058590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads J
< 1252058625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was that whole "Windows Services for Unix" thing, I wonder if it's still alive for modern windowseses.
< 1252058629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252058633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Interix.
< 1252058634 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for home useres
< 1252058638 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :users
< 1252058638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks, I gather.
< 1252058650 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the POSIX subsystem is long gone too
< 1252058653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=896c9688-601b-44f1-81a4-02878ff11778
< 1252058660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORLY BITCHNIZZLE???11212
< 1252058677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why j wants to install into my home directory.
< 1252058681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does not seem like sane thinking.
< 1252058693 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no Win XP Home or Vista"
< 1252058702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1252058715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs it in system, since he is an admin and as such is invincible.
< 1252058719 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Server 2003 R2
< 1252058739 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, not there either)
< 1252058743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internets say most of it is included in Vista Enterprise/Ultimate, though.
< 1252058748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it works.
< 1252058766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wtf my keyboard layout turned british again. rage.
< 1252058786 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must've hit some specific key combo
< 1252058790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1252058794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I\ve removed all other options
< 1252058802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1252058839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (+/%#)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
< 1252058839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.5
< 1252058843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All in functioning order.
< 1252058939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% is division?
< 1252058969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252058975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think this sign:
< 1252058976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1252058978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-
< 1252058978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1252058980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :÷
< 1252058981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on its side
< 1252058986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/ is used for folding)
< 1252059001 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor ASCII-limited fools
< 1252059026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you know what happened before they became ASCII-limited fools?
< 1252059027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL
< 1252059031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do
< 1252059031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same people.
< 1252059301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, gotta go
< 1252059311 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya when I see ya! :-)
< 1252059312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes his quicklaunch bar is succumbing to featuritis
< 1252059314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1252059319 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252059356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, your "Fisherman's Fiend" idea somehow stuck with me enough to make me buy two packets of Fisherman's Friends. I don't and never did intend to make a Fiend, though.
< 1252059377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You suck :P
< 1252059397 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them is of the ammonium chloride variety, which I guess is fairly nonstandard
< 1252059421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the melted metal + acid version.
< 1252059425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scorching!
< 1252059433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restarting irc client so that my keyboard layout is right.
< 1252059439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252059451 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252059456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo.
< 1252059465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252059475 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252059488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am dumb
< 1252059492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252059502 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252059509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252059520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1252059564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252059575 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252059598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not working much? :-P
< 1252059618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh!
< 1252059647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enable the language bar, if such a thing exists, and make sure it's on the right setting when you start your program
< 1252059653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1252059657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only one setting
< 1252059660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nothing to do with that
< 1252059661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1252059663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another problem now :P
< 1252059664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh
< 1252059743 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal"
< 1252060154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Full installation MMX for DirectX 6.1"
< 1252060163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rockin' the high-end configuration here
< 1252060203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also 3Dfx Voodoo Glide options :P
< 1252060223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I have a Pentium III, and "4G colors".
< 1252060233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a SOUND CARD!
< 1252060545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the shortcut is "To Play Rayman 2".
< 1252060551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of, you know, just "Rayman 2".
< 1252060607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why Rayman 2 all of a sudden?
< 1252060820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Whaddya mean?
< 1252060824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what I installed Windows for.
< 1252060840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean why that game in particular
< 1252060852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/shrug. I remembered it.
< 1252060975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it crashes on changing resoluton just as it always has.
< 1252060977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*resolution
< 1252064680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1252064727 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252064727 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252064727 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252064758 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252064861 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252067521 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-106-184.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252067606 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252067610 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1252068566 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252069004 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252069694 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-57-81.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252071459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252071656 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252071803 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-88.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252078514 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252079873 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal"
< 1252079926 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252080993 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1252080994 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-88.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-57-81.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252080994 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-106-184.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.135.38.134 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@67-40-212-106.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252080994 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252081196 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009080315]"
< 1252083385 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252084072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. The iBook (G4) HD has decided to go and break. I wonder if it's just the standard 2.5" IDE thing, and not some sort of Appleism. (I've only stuck more memory in this thing, and that at least was very normal stuff.)
< 1252084187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's your mom
< 1252084618 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252085446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw didn't you say no one uses python 3?
< 1252085466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brace yourselves! AnMaster is about to take things absolutely literally.
< 1252085500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree mostly with that... But I found one exception.... this "introduction to computer science" course uses python 3.1 ...
< 1252085505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit weird IMO
< 1252085701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh.
< 1252085702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what uni.
< 1252085706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in sveden
< 1252085712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell them they're stupid :P
< 1252085714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/v/w/
< 1252085764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what to do with the "--with-fpectl" configure flag for python
< 1252085768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use or not?
< 1252085778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since ubuntu doesn't have 3.1 packaged, only 3.0
< 1252085841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not
< 1252085904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know, 3.1 is just 3.0
< 1252085906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with bugfixes
< 1252085907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1252085916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not worth the bother installing 3.1
< 1252085923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless this introduction course is made by a fan of edgecases
< 1252085931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i forbid you from teaching ever)
< 1252085937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and some new modules iirc
< 1252085945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and computed goto
< 1252085956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rewritten IO code in C (to make it fast)
< 1252085964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computed goto also is supposed to make it faster
< 1252085975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that hello world will be 10x faster and the new brokencsvmicrosoftwordmbox module will be vital in that course. :P
< 1252085980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if MinGW comes with a fork().
< 1252085983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one way to find out!*
< 1252085985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lie
< 1252085995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I tell X to turn caps lock on/off without pressing the caps lock key, somehow?
< 1252085999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think we got past that already. We got to loops and functions already :P
< 1252086002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: telepathy
< 1252086013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think X has a telepathy API
< 1252086014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Next step, bleeding-edge modules
< 1252086022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :|
< 1252086037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F:\Documents and Settings\Elliott Hird\My Documents\Code ;; windows paths are uncomfortably long
< 1252086064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you mean like with using xset led or so?
< 1252086064 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%HOMEPATH%\My Documents\Code
< 1252086086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that actually toggles caps lock or just the led
< 1252086097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that isn't the real name.
< 1252086100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually thanks for reminding me about that, that should be sufficient
< 1252086142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, eh?
< 1252086158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to do btw?
< 1252086163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that xset -led $i for all $i in 1..32 only toggles scroll lock :-P
< 1252086188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, MinGW *doesn't* come with a fork() :-)
< 1252086189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I only ever used xset led off
< 1252086204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work either; only scroll lock
< 1252086218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason that turns off accessibility thingies if they get enabled by mistake
< 1252086236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what I did was I applied a vacuum cleaner to my keyboard and now the caps lock LED is inverted respective to the caps lock state
< 1252086243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's happened before
< 1252086243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes that's weird, I would like to completely disable whatever the hotkey is for stuff like slow keys and such)
< 1252086250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And restarting X is a solution
< 1252086253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(haven't found the relevant option yet)
< 1252086256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm wondering if there's an easier way
< 1252086269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fix: avoid using vacuum cleaner while computer is on
< 1252086283 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an even worse solution than restarting X
< 1252086285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also that thing indicates that caps lock is somehow tracked in hardware
< 1252086286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Just vaccum it again
< 1252086293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've tried that
< 1252086295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252086300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somehow always manage to make it work like this
< 1252086304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not the other way around
< 1252086313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vaccum a CRT. It won't help, but it'll look cool.
< 1252086317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think this means the led is not software controlled at all
< 1252086320 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, there's been a difference in that the first time around I try to clean the keyboard
< 1252086322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hardware controlled
< 1252086327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas the second time around I try to fix caps lock
< 1252086332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? I never tried, what happens?
< 1252086333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe I'm doing it wrong
< 1252086348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No idea, but it's probably quantum.
< 1252086355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, unplug the keyboard and replug it?
< 1252086359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't if PS/2
< 1252086369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since PS/2 isn't hot-pluggable
< 1252086382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS/2 seems to be hot-pluggable
< 1252086385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would assume I'm the only one still using a PS/2 keyboard
< 1252086395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I recall unplugging this keyboard several times
< 1252086396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely Windows must have something that can implement fork() in its annals these days.
< 1252086402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it still working without a reboot after replugging
< 1252086405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it isn't. IIRC ais said that it could potentially fry your keyboard
< 1252086410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252086412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not keyboard
< 1252086414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mobo
< 1252086419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS/2 is de facto hot-pluggable, de jure not.
< 1252086425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I always use PS/2. I use USB-to-PS/2 adapters for USB keyboards.
< 1252086451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well maybe my system is DS9K then. Because my system promptly rebooted when I tried it a year ago or so
< 1252086460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why?
< 1252086484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Surely Windows must have something that can implement fork() in its annals these days. <-- what about the thing cygwin does?
< 1252086495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You mean basically being a kernel in userspace?
< 1252086503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort of looking for something along the lines of not that.
< 1252086511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Default USB keyboard protocol implementation allows only 6 simultaneously pressed keys (+ 2 or 3 modifiers, I forget)
< 1252086522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably 3 modifiers
< 1252086524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Learn to type properly and chop off those extra fingers.
< 1252086526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well iirc cygwin does it like: run new process but make it wait at a mutex, copy stuff over to new process, resume the new process
< 1252086535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Which is evil
< 1252086537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And slow
< 1252086538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both processes are suspended while this is happening iirc
< 1252086548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. But it counts as implementing fork() ;P
< 1252086552 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.eggheadcafe.com/conversation.aspx?messageid=32086952&threadid=32040421 <- what about that?
< 1252086555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a GOOD fork() but still
< 1252086557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does return EDS9K
< 1252086576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: still looks like the same thing
< 1252086581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's f rom the cygwin time.
< 1252086587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so of course it is the same thing.
< 1252086589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I figured out a better solution
< 1252086590 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZwCreateProcess would be a way to do it, as that mentions
< 1252086600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gawd, now I have to look at msdn
< 1252086602 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ZwCreateProcess is part of the undocumented NT API
< 1252086603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to VT1 -> turn caps lock off -> go back to VT7 (X)
< 1252086612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Or not!
< 1252086620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undocumented sonuds fun.
< 1252086622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sounds
< 1252086659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh interesting
< 1252086665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, xset led works for me btw
< 1252086668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if I need the -Ex variant :-)
< 1252086672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don't even have a caps lock key :P
< 1252086678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an additional ctrl
< 1252086725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, xset led is actually pretty weird
< 1252086728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xset led on -> all leds on
< 1252086734 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xset led off -> scroll lock off, others remain on
< 1252086762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wth
< 1252086769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As much as I loathe to give any credo to Xah Lee, see http://xahlee.org/emacs/swap_CapsLock_Ctrl.html
< 1252086769 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1252086786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a word that isn't creedo
< 1252086803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, xset led on here only turns on scroll lock. It used to turn on caps lock, but that doesn't seem to happen any more
< 1252086810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for numlock, it used to affect that too
< 1252086813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, inverse situation? :-P
< 1252086833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, numlock not affected by off either
< 1252086843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, weird
< 1252086844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or on
< 1252086875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I assume he have small hands
< 1252086892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please stop making that stupid grammatical error; you should know by now...
< 1252086904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because if I use my palm like he describes, I can't reach z or x with my fingers...
< 1252086905 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252086927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you classify everyone who doesn't have huge hands as small handed
< 1252086932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is... false, to say the least
< 1252086936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an obvious bias
< 1252086946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you do exactly the opposite
< 1252086952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should even out
< 1252086983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I didn't swap. I use it in addition
< 1252086989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no caps lock key feature
< 1252087004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can press ctrl with my palm and use my index finger to reach every letter up to the YHN column except Q and A
< 1252087005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not do exactly the opposite, that is an unfounded assertion.
< 1252087011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have small hands?
< 1252087020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how should I know?
< 1252087031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From my statement
< 1252087045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also reaching *up* wasn't the issue
< 1252087048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reaching *down* was
< 1252087055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure
< 1252087057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I would have to curl my finger a lot
< 1252087060 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, I can reach all except Q and A
< 1252087070 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that includes Z and X
< 1252087074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well Q and A are at the top row?
< 1252087078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well A isn't
< 1252087079 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it requires curl
< 1252087080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Q is
< 1252087088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with Q and A is they're too far to the left
< 1252087096 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My palm slides off ctrl if I press those with my index finger
< 1252087102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, can you reach altgr and 2 with the same hand?
< 1252087107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, easily
< 1252087120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, full sized keyboard?
< 1252087120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using thumb + pinkie I can reach right windows and esc
< 1252087123 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252087139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sounds pretty normal sized then
< 1252087141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's stretching it a bit; I might press altgr at the same time as right windows
< 1252087183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right windows and esc is a bit stretching... but then this keyboard has a larger than usual altgr key for some unknown reason
< 1252087216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and esc and the f keys are a bit further away than usual too
< 1252087224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I don't know what's "usual" anyway, this is an early-90s HP keyboard
< 1252087225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the "main" section I mean
< 1252087249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, this is a ~2001 Fujitsu Siemens keyboard
< 1252087257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly 2002 not sure
< 1252087298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this didn't have Windows buttons I'd guess it was 80s :-P
< 1252087299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should use an Apple Extended Keyboard II
< 1252087304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I can be inexplicable even to the Model M users
< 1252087321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, symbolics one would beat even that
< 1252087324 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inexplicable?
< 1252087325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252087334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbolics keyboards do not have high-quality keyswitches.
< 1252087336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has original Alps, doesn't it; that makes it somewhat cool
< 1252087338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as far as I know)
< 1252087355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Apple Extended's are at least equal to and perhaps better than the Model M's, depending on your tatse.
< 1252087356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, alps? Wow those keys must have been quite tall
< 1252087356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*taste
< 1252087363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :-P
< 1252087371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says Alps, yes
< 1252087376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's more obscure and the keycaps are made for one OS.
< 1252087381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what alps in this context
< 1252087384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, John Gruber uses one.
< 1252087391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "at least equal to" is incorrect
< 1252087399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can like buckling-spring more than the alps just fine
< 1252087405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, true.
< 1252087407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I mean objectively.
< 1252087412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err I remember an apple keyboard without the f-keys at all
< 1252087414 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they are different
< 1252087416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're undeniably high-quality, and you might subjectively like them more.
< 1252087417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was for apple classic
< 1252087417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no objectivity about it :-P
< 1252087422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: see ^
< 1252087427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what do you mean by "high-quality"
< 1252087439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Apple_Extended_Keyboard.jpg
< 1252087443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the II
< 1252087445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the original
< 1252087447 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Alps are a brand of key switches
< 1252087456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Cherries, for instance.
< 1252087461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What do you mean by "is"
< 1252087475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By high-quality I mean they're high-quality in construction and engineering
< 1252087492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah
< 1252087493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I acknowledge that the Model M's keyswitches are high-quality, and yet I do not really appreciate the feel of typing on it, preferring softer keyboards.
< 1252087496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fine
< 1252087505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um... is this like ALPS touchpad? as in same ALPS?
< 1252087515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough details to compare the quality of the Model M's switches and Alps
< 1252087521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any other switches, for that matter
< 1252087543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, they're both higher-quality than most stuff on the market, fine.
< 1252087555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid at what I'm becoming
< 1252087560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Possibly, I don't know.
< 1252087568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm enjoying using Windows XP with the classic theme and no font antialiasing!
< 1252087573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely sweet death must come soon...
< 1252087582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1252087582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on a mac screen or on a 96 DPI one?
< 1252087584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything to relieve me from this internal termoil.
< 1252087594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Mac. 100dpi isn't really different from 96dpi anyway.
< 1252087595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ter/tur/
< 1252087603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only 100 dpi?
< 1252087622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what they all are, roughly.
< 1252087632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw I saw gimp under mac os x think the ~114 DPI screen was actually 72 DPI
< 1252087632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Googling a bit suggests that yes, they're both by Alps Electric Co., Ltd.
< 1252087632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 24" Apple Cinema Display @ 1920x1200 is 94dpi, even.
< 1252087635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite funny
< 1252087642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However,
< 1252087647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The notebooks are more like 120dpi.
< 1252087665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well this one was 114 DPI, a few years old (still intel one though)
< 1252087683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most pixel-packing display on an Apple computer is the 17" MacBook Pro, which is full 1920x1200 (!); that's 133dpi.
< 1252087739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice
< 1252087754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still I want a 30" at > 400 dpi
< 1252087760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I want a pony.
< 1252087795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah...
< 1252087798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw...
< 1252087800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd start breaking the piggy bank around 600dpi; with a good backlight you'd be very close to obsoleting print as a superior medium.
< 1252087803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :PONY FLU http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1252087804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for reproduction)
< 1252087808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG
< 1252087809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252087810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ponies
< 1252087811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could never
< 1252087812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a flu
< 1252087813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was UNICORN before
< 1252087814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are too PURE
< 1252087817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure they can
< 1252087820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1252087821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / /
< 1252087821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a liar
< 1252087823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a plant
< 1252087826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the evil plant forest
< 1252087827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE
< 1252087829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCUM
< 1252087832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH PLANT FLU
< 1252087853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that probably exists too. *shrug*
< 1252087861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P
< 1252087875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no?
< 1252087916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wake me up at 1200 dpi screens that won't need backlight
< 1252087921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OLED
< 1252087922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you don't use backlight for a book
< 1252087932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iPaper.
< 1252087935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1252087936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eInk
< 1252087937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever
< 1252087937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1252087947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes something like that
< 1252087954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how good colours it has yet
< 1252087957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what the DPI is
< 1252087961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about response time
< 1252087974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hopefully at some point it will be good enough
< 1252087990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, backlight as an option would be nice
< 1252088026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in dark environments
< 1252088042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nicer than having to use a torch
< 1252088047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come cmd.exe only lets you choose between Lucida and the default thingy :\
< 1252088060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what fonts are installed?
< 1252088067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stock
< 1252088074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe those are the only fixed ones
< 1252088076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly the default terminal font is very crisp.
< 1252088079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just... very bold, too.
< 1252088086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, better bold than shy
< 1252088103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 6x8 version is yummy like 9pt Monaco.
< 1252088105 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registry hacks can let you use Consolas etc. in the console
< 1252088108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, er, small.
< 1252088115 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though Consolas will look like vomit without Cleartype)
< 1252088126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I have a policy not to antialias stuff in here for no adequately explained reason
< 1252088193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :PONY F
< 1252088195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops.
< 1252088201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, heehehehhe Small Fonts is cute.
< 1252088245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Bold Segoe UI actually looks acceptable pixelated
< 1252088258 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252088343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you forgot log link
< 1252088344 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just turned off font smoothing and it's still being used in places
< 1252088348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :PONY F http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1252088350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "oops".
< 1252088359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: yah, some shitty things force htat
< 1252088361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and didn't try to fix it?
< 1252088365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly ms crap
< 1252088369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i am a lazy man.
< 1252088375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :PONY FLU http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1252088391 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like notepad's main menu, and window titles (it's aero glass)
< 1252088410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I just turned off font smoothing and it's still being used in places <-- iirc it only takes effect for apps started after the setting was changed
< 1252088414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that may depend on OS
< 1252088423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly is like that under X
< 1252088438 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop
< 1252088438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252088449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is being forced for the C* font family by Microsoft programs.
< 1252088460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they mostly look like excrement without ClearType.
< 1252088479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: what's that registry hack you were speaking of?
< 1252088481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cleartype *looks* like excrement. More so on lower resolutuon monitors
< 1252088494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ClearType is a very bad implementation of subpixel smoothing.
< 1252088496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252088500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, all are unbearable apart from OS X's, which looks nice.
< 1252088502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/resolution/dpi/
< 1252088506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only in the context of OS X's UI.
< 1252088515 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://blog.wolffmyren.com/2008/09/15/consolas-as-cmdexe-windows-console-font/
< 1252088517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This explains how Safari on Windows can look like such dung.)
< 1252088527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you think the linux subpixel stuff sucks too?
< 1252088531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that could explain it
< 1252088536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freetype, yeah.
< 1252088557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. so why was you so surprised when I didn't like it on my laptop then?
< 1252088573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because at that high DPI, I really didn't think it would matter
< 1252088578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252088582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/was/were/
< 1252088598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X rendering strongly resembles print; a lot of people dislike it for that reason when viewing it in their OS of choice but I've never heard of anyone walking up to a Mac and going "Eww, the fonts are all *smudgy!*".
< 1252088639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if powershell is any good
< 1252088642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is powershell any good, Windows users?
< 1252088672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a vector display. Wouldn't need anti-alias at all
< 1252088674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1252088683 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit enterprisey, and slow to start up, but it's better than cmd
< 1252088746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it enterprisey?
< 1252088755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what key did THAT
< 1252088779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1252088850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I could just install the Lisp Machine monospaced font. :-)
< 1252088864 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ls, for example, returns a list of objects, not text, and you manipulate it by inspecting the properties of the objects. It's nice in some ways, but it can get clunky too.
< 1252088878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.eurogaran.com/downloads/lispmfont/screenshot.jpg
< 1252088889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is this the nicest bitmap monospace font ever?
< 1252088893 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252088900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looks nice, but what is up with the 7?
< 1252088907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 7 looks really ugly
< 1252088912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a european 7.
< 1252088916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh?
< 1252088916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rendered quite uglily.
< 1252088923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dash through the middle.
< 1252088923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :european 7?
< 1252088933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, I always write my 7-s like that
< 1252088945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7s? 7:s?
< 1252088948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only so many pixels to go around. Anyway, how many 7s do you have in your code?
< 1252088957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs 7zip
< 1252088975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do math homework in emacs? ;P
< 1252088995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm too lazy to use a pen. A lot more effort
< 1252089002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucida Typewriter looks nice
< 1252089022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where can one get that lispmfont in a format that a modern system knows
< 1252089032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.fon is not unmodern.
< 1252089048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh same directory
< 1252089050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252089102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I just installed it by dragging-and-dropping the .fon to my Fonts folder.
< 1252089186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, found a flaw: the . is not monospaced and is unusally small.
< 1252089199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems the .pcf works
< 1252089201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .fon didn't
< 1252089302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I had the money for http://www.fsd.it/fonts/pragma.htm
< 1252089315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 12pt Mac aliased is pretty much unsurpassable there for ease-of-reading.
< 1252089327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, ehh, 90 euros man
< 1252089352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no
< 1252089358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it complains it's an archive
< 1252089360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it isn't
< 1252089460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there is a Windows (un)archiver that exposes things as compressed folders As They Should Be.
< 1252089468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the integrated .zip support for that, but... it's just .zip.
< 1252089534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be adventurous and try and sleep this computer now for a second.
< 1252090182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252090281 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252090524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252090639 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252090661 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :MAHJONG FLU http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1252090801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why that?
< 1252090824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why what? Did you mean the TOPIC setting?
< 1252090866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what else?
< 1252090874 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. OK
< 1252090894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why mahjong
< 1252090899 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't like it you can change it back, but I think it was changed to a few things it can change a few ways
< 1252090912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I didn't say that.
< 1252090913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because yesterday I purchased Akagi DS game
< 1252090924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wondered what made you decide on mahjong
< 1252090926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252090942 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why, it is because I purchased Akagi DS game yesterday.
< 1252090955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there is a esolangs idea for something having to do with mahjong game, too
< 1252090961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this "akagi ds" is some sort of mahjong?
< 1252090966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mahjong game*
< 1252090995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION usually plays kmahjong when he plays mahjong (which isn't very often)
< 1252091003 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Akagi DS is a mahjong game for DS. It has a few unique features (such as ZawaZawa power, Washizu mahjong, story mode, and some others), but is generally inferior.
< 1252091021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS being some old portable nintendo thingy iirc?
< 1252091031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was gameboy the old thing and ds the modern one?
< 1252091054 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kmahjong isn't a mahjong game as far as I can tell.
< 1252091067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS is the new Nintendo handheld system (except DSi is even more newer)
< 1252091067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252091074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kmahjong <-- how is it not?
< 1252091092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the KDE one
< 1252091094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just one type of solitaire game that can be played with mahjong tiles.
< 1252091108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well maybe. There are some other ones too
< 1252091109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1252091119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kshisen
< 1252091123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer that one
< 1252091124 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mahjong is played with 4 people
< 1252091154 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Kshisen is another different solitaire mahjong game.
< 1252091167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, all games called "mahjong" that I have seen have been solitaire ones...
< 1252091195 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They call them "mahjong" because they use the mahjong tiles. But real mahjong game isn't like that.
< 1252091235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I usually prefer games with a story. This means stuff like single player RPGs or adventure games. I'm a big fan of some of the zelda games for example
< 1252091262 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Akagi DS game has a story
< 1252091263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zelda a link to the past, and zelda ocarina of time would be my two top favourite ones
< 1252091277 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can play free mode also.
< 1252091296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, still quite far from the "story" in something like a RPG I assume?
< 1252091394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is more like a story than other mahjong games have, but not quite like you would see in a RPG
< 1252091422 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have the full collection of Akagi manga book 1-22
< 1252091451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have three mahjong games on my computer, Zootto Mahjong, Nantonaku Mahjong, 4-Winds Mahjong.
< 1252091459 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I will write my own, too. Called XUL-Mahjong
< 1252091468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1252091655 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Akagi DS game and Akagi manga book are all in Japanese, though. But I like it, especially with Washizu tiles.
< 1252091691 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zootto Mahjong and Nantonaku Mahjong are also both in Japanese.
< 1252091740 0 :Hiato!n=fdulu@dsl-245-3-02.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252092036 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just now I searched for a mahjong game on Japanese SourceForge, I did find one, written in Ruby. Possibly I could try to figure it out to add some feature, such as Washizu tiles.
< 1252092360 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_0C/yakuman.png http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_0C/mahjong1.png
< 1252092366 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252093394 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252095306 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252095310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.python.org/issue1453http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 <-- hehe
< 1252095315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hiwc
< 1252095320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hi
< 1252095351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION somehow found Lightning Made of Owls amusing today
< 1252095636 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252095737 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252095881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw my shift key is starting to get a slight jwz-look. Nothing as bad yet though
< 1252097147 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252098123 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"underflow"
< 1252099077 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252099098 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252099656 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252099739 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-214.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252099749 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitches!
< 1252099844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg.
< 1252100047 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been away
< 1252100048 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sorry
< 1252100055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive moved to maryland and i dont have internet in my place yet
< 1252100061 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesnt mean i dont love you! T_t
< 1252100115 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, im off to the library
< 1252100117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodbye!
< 1252100118 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1252100529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252100702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't love you, augur.
< 1252102252 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252102642 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252102821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you were talking about eink response times?
< 1252102822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jwz.livejournal.com/1080224.html
< 1252102824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dismal!
< 1252102846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a white box?
< 1252102851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of plugin is needed
< 1252102855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash.
< 1252102870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube?
< 1252102873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, flickr.
< 1252102877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn
< 1252102885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no luck then
< 1252102890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your loss.
< 1252102896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252102919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I secretly wish that one day, the web will be almost entirely Flash-based, and you will be forced to resort to using: gopher; no electricity; no running water; no surrounding society. Am I a bad person?)
< 1252103128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes
< 1252103142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252103149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://bugs.python.org/issue1453http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 <-- your opinion? That issue exists in 3.1 too btw
< 1252103153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn
< 1252103925 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-214.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252104116 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1252105073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1252105730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252105937 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252106529 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252107648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252107695 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252108527 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252108965 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252109103 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252109111 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252109134 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1252109195 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252111711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252112122 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252112366 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252112420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I secretly wish that one day, the web will be almost entirely Flash-based, and you will be forced to resort to using: gopher; no electricity; no running water; no surrounding society. Am I a bad person?)
< 1252112463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid this will only lead to him making his own flash interpreter, probably together with zzo38.
< 1252112541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably based on gopher, though
< 1252112547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessir
< 1252112588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, http://bugs.python.org/issue1453http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 <-- your opinion? That issue exists in 3.1 too btw
< 1252112601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my opinion is that you need to learn to paste URLs better
< 1252112683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my impression from one of the comments was it was based on a misunderstanding, with the flag going to configure instead of cc
< 1252112691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*make
< 1252112739 0 :augur!n=augur@store.redemmas.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252112807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see the last comment
< 1252112844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on that page)
< 1252113092 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey goise
< 1252113675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bourgois(i)e
< 1252113699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+(e)
< 1252113726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn french who cannot spell
< 1252114072 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burgwah
< 1252114576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burgwah
< 1252114576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252114611 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bO:R\zwazi:
< 1252114618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwa**
< 1252114643 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@24.207.48.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252114660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1554430
< 1252115130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, ha, it isn't about GameCube! Now push the Explode button and your TV will explode and money will come out.
< 1252115131 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252115346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have an Explode button, and suspects that is fortunate.
< 1252116651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once again manages to write "proof reading" in an edit summary
< 1252116787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252117594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252122481 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252126600 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252128347 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252128498 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252129557 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252130745 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252131463 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252131694 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252134522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252134902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252137301 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252137599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252137600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252140482 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252141375 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-13-131.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252142284 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252142641 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-227.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252143294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my opinion is that you need to learn to paste URLs better <-- I blame synergy
< 1252143309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my impression from one of the comments was it was based on a misunderstanding, with the flag going to configure instead of cc <-- yes but no one else does it like that
< 1252143660 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252146042 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252148500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm I think I finally found a way to make string pushing significantly faster in cfunge. Sadly it is only for x86 and x86-64
< 1252148537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure if the env strings are usually as long as they are on my gentoo system that it would matter much elsewhere
< 1252151561 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252155006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You using more asm? :-P
< 1252155466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sites.google.com/site/ryanbroomfield/xkcd-sans-women
< 1252155774 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252158936 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252159812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm considering doing it
< 1252159834 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252159837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw how good are you at sed?
< 1252159841 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252159895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if there is any shorter way to write this in sed: sed '/^\//!d;s/\(.[ch]\)(\([0-9][0-9]*\)):/\1:\2:/;s/\(error\|remark\|warning\) #/\1: #/'
< 1252159930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw it is supposed to convert ICC style diagnostic output into a format that some tools that expect GCC style can understand)
< 1252159946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and it actually works, just seems so messy)
< 1252160510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably with "-r" you save a few backslashes -- just "(foo|bar|baz)" instead of "\(foo\|bar\|baz\)", though you need to escape the raw parens then -- but in general that looks a bit too simple to optimize much, unless you can combine those two s///s together (i.e. both are done on same lines). I don't quite know what the ICC output looks like.
< 1252160591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And -r's not posix, of course.
< 1252160620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least the 1003.1-2001 one.)
< 1252160717 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"fe'o"
< 1252160839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probably with "-r" you save a few backslashes -- just "(foo|bar|baz)" instead of "\(foo\|bar\|baz\)", though you need to escape the raw parens then -- but in general that looks a bit too simple to optimize much, unless you can combine those two s///s together (i.e. both are done on same lines). I don't quite know what the ICC output looks like. <-- hm right, they are indeed
< 1252160867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can maybe combine them, though it might not look any prettier that way.
< 1252160899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for -r, I doubt this will be useful on anything but linux. Or is ICC available for other platforms than windows and linux?
< 1252160973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X, at least some versions at some point.
< 1252161028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there was some QNX thing too, but that can't be very popular.
< 1252161367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and it depends on absolute paths in the output, to detect the relevant lines (which is true by default for cmake projects, which is where I needed this)
< 1252161547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want those lines for which the s/// matches -- I mean, it already has that ".[ch](digits)" test to see relevant lines -- you can write something like "s///; t ok;d;: ok" to save the /^\//!d test, but it looks a bit crufty with the jump.
< 1252161575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the .ch bit was because there is (digits) sometimes later on the line too
< 1252161589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.[ch] I mean
< 1252161610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it might be good enough to pick up relevant lines already with that.
< 1252161926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw what would unlink(NULL); do?
< 1252161937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean is it undef or just error?
< 1252161974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it should logically return EFAULT in errno, but I wouldn't maybe count on that.
< 1252161986 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252162017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what icc means with "warning #12331: function "chdir" is vulnerable to race conditions"...
< 1252162027 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252162226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know; the only related race I can think of is in the "process creates a directory, then someone removes it and places a symlink to some existing wrong place, process then chdirs into the wrong place" case, but that's not so very chdir-related.
< 1252162245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw do you know if this is well defined: if ((foo == NULL) || (function_not_checking_parameter_for_null_first(foo) == 1)) { return ERROR_CODE; }
< 1252162257 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a process with multiple threads, all threads share the same chdir.
< 1252162262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, ah right
< 1252162278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess it could just be about that, but isn't that quite obvious.
< 1252162280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, except this program uses no threads...
< 1252162292 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I think "race condition", I think "threads", making that quite obvious.
< 1252162303 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although of course there are other non-thread race conditions out there :P )
< 1252162308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since it is produced during link time optimisation it should know that pthreads aren't linked
< 1252162333 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet icc compiles with threads whether you want it to or not :P
< 1252162335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, || is still short-circuiting, foo will not be null if function_not_checking_this_name_is_too_long is called.
< 1252162367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, actually no. It only does that if you use -parallel to auto-parallelise. Checked with ldd
< 1252162382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right. Forgot if it was in C
< 1252162495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, can't seem to find any references to that #12331 chdir warning from the interwebs. It must not be a very popular ICC flag that enables it.
< 1252162643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, -diag-enable sc1
< 1252162671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did find some useful things, like a few missing checks for NULL in places that needed them
< 1252162696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but almost everything else seems to be false warnings so far
< 1252162731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's funny, since it seems "sc1" is just about "critical errors", and that sounds like quite a just-in-case warning.
< 1252162746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep. I wonder what sc2 and above will do...
< 1252162757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why on earth I wrote this:
< 1252162763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 0: handles[h]->file = fopen(filename, "rb"); break;
< 1252162763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 1: handles[h]->file = fopen(filename, "wb"); break;
< 1252162763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 2: handles[h]->file = fopen(filename, "ab"); break;
< 1252162765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1252162765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your variable names are not poetic enough."
< 1252162767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 cases
< 1252162789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean clearly the mode bit should just be calculated then the call be made with a variable
< 1252162811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that is possibly messier in C
< 1252163724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because you didn't write it but rather copied it from CCBI :-P
< 1252163908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah would explain the bad coding style.
< 1252163911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252163921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's somewhat needed in CCBI
< 1252163925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 0: file = c.fopen(name, "rb"); if (!file) goto default; break;
< 1252163925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 1: file = c.fopen(name, "wb"); if (!file) goto default; break;
< 1252163925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 2: file = c.fopen(name, "ab"); if (!file) goto default; c.rewind(file); break;
< 1252163935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the rewind may not be needed
< 1252163938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever
< 1252163961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have the rewind stuff further down
< 1252163971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((mode == 2) || (mode == 5))
< 1252163971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rewind(handles[h]->file);
< 1252163997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/own/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/FILE/FILE.c:337: error: #12306: unvalidated value is received from call to an external function at (file:/home/arvid/src/own/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/FILE/FILE.c line:326) which can be used in loop condition expression
< 1252163998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1252164011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out what that was about
< 1252164014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't check ferror or something?
< 1252164029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 326 is:
< 1252164031 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252164031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((bytes_read = fread(buf, sizeof(unsigned char), (size_t)n, fp)) != (size_t)n) {
< 1252164035 0 :JoelyWoely!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252164040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I check it there
< 1252164055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is what the if does
< 1252164065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since bytes_read is the bit that is found in the loop
< 1252164075 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252164108 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252164108 0 :JoelyWoely!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252164176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:25:49 ehird, http://bugs.python.org/issue1453http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 <-- your opinion? That issue exists in 3.1 too btw
< 1252164177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail
< 1252164180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@ you)
< 1252164198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was already pointed out, and I blame synergy as I said
< 1252164253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:45:30 Ha, ha, it isn't about GameCube! Now push the Explode button and your TV will explode and money will come out.
< 1252164254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough, clicking the link did not make me understand this any more.
< 1252164359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:50:45 fizzie, btw do you know if this is well defined: if ((foo == NULL) || (function_not_checking_parameter_for_null_first(foo) == 1)) { return ERROR_CODE; }
< 1252164359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, stop coding C
< 1252164361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously
< 1252164381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well icc didn't claim it was.
< 1252164402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've already established icc is overly pedantic
< 1252164418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it strayed into "plain wrong" there
< 1252164434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:15:24 Probably because you didn't write it but rather copied it from CCBI :-P
< 1252164434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey now, he might have changed the indentation style!
< 1252164439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nope, not even that
< 1252164444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, yes
< 1252164447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he converted it to tabs
< 1252164453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er what? I use tabs
< 1252164455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :significant modifications, here
< 1252164457 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252164461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: er right
< 1252164468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I selected the space next to >
< 1252164468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He removed tabs, mayhap
< 1252164468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for you
< 1252164492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you aren't even funny. Also isn't one of the points of open source to be able to share code ;P
< 1252164500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes I do give credit)
< 1252164520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally it's considered polite to label things like that "ports"
< 1252164532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that'd be offensive to CCBI, which doesn't have half of its code as asm optimisations
< 1252164616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do include a comment at the top of that file about many parts being based on CCBI. Reason here was that I implemented that RCS fingerprint before Mike Riley showed up here.
< 1252164625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when his docs were even worse.
< 1252164637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm further convinced that you don't actually read messages you reply to
< 1252164666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I generally skip lines with a too high sillyness quota
< 1252164686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: I ignore lines I don't agree with
< 1252164813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, definitely not.
< 1252164833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if I did that I wouldn't be able to end up arguing with you for such long periods.
< 1252164838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction: I ignore lines I strongly don't agree with, especially if they're from people I dislike.
< 1252164869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Not really, but when you are sarcastic or just plain silly, then yes.
< 1252164904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction: If I continue to add qualifiers to this sentence I can justify [ignoring lines I strongly don't agree with, especially if they're from people I dislike].
< 1252164933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... now you are getting close to silly again.
< 1252164973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're... incredibly predictable.
< 1252164988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so is your mom
< 1252165036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we find AnMaster using his staple argumentative technique, "argumentum ad I don't have any rebuttals so I'll make a bad joke and hope everyone forgets about the argument".
< 1252165047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Said in Attenborough voice.)
< 1252165088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, you didn't answer the question about that bug above.
< 1252165094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 that is
< 1252165113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite wtfy of python to only let CFLAGS passed to configure affect configure itself
< 1252165116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is there to say? You linked me to a tedious, sundry bug.
< 1252165123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is completely different to what everyone else does
< 1252165208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1252165422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll have to rieinstall windows
< 1252165435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reinstall
< 1252165625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252165635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers looking at older notebook models
< 1252165654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 14" 4:3 notebook is the same width as a 12" 16:10 notebook and quite a bit taller...
< 1252165675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ prolly less bezel than a 12"; e.g. look at the X200's)
< 1252165916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why?
< 1252165920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 14" 4:3 notebook is the same width as a 12" 16:10 notebook and quite a bit taller...
< 1252165921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ prolly less bezel than a 12"; e.g. look at the X200's)
< 1252165927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := more screen space while fitting on my lap
< 1252165928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err I meant about why reinstall
< 1252165931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252165932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not why the 14"
< 1252165937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my keyboard stopped working
< 1252165945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh... tried rebooting?
< 1252165955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. also repairing the drivers.
< 1252165964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe unplug it and plugging it in again?
< 1252165972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bluetooth.
< 1252165975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1252165977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I turned it off and on again.
< 1252165979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about that
< 1252165980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tried to repair.
< 1252165984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It "supposedly" worked, but not really.
< 1252166000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: About that?
< 1252166002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you set up the initial pair connection thingy for bluetooth keyboard and mice
< 1252166013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a keyboard, just click click click.
< 1252166018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can generate a pairing key for you.
< 1252166027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean, enter key shown on screen or such?
< 1252166038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're like 8 digits long
< 1252166041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252166043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo insecure :P
< 1252166048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about mice, how do you input it there?
< 1252166055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't.
< 1252166059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh?
< 1252166064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just turn it on, maybe press a button on the back, and pair at the same time.
< 1252166073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's magic.
< 1252166086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then two mice in range trying to pair at the same time is unlikely, after all.
< 1252166107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true
< 1252166127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Issues with looking at older notebooks: run hotter and louder, lower specs, dimmer displays
< 1252166137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotter and dimmer being the main issues
< 1252166149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"256 or 512MB PC2-4200 memory standard, 2GB max
< 1252166149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40, 60 or 80GB PATA HDD"
< 1252166150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unless someone is setting up a computer lab at some uni. But I guess usb mice are more common there to make it harder to steal
< 1252166155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, well, more than 80GB would be nice.
< 1252166185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could use a SATA→PATA adapter and scrunch a big SSD in there with some ingenuity.
< 1252166187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, do you plan getting some notebook bag/backpack or similar?
< 1252166200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I can't exactly hold it all the time.
< 1252166203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when I was looking for one to mine I only saw ones made for wide screen
< 1252166213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I could just get a regular bag
< 1252166216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could just get a larger bag
< 1252166228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a 15" one for a 12" laptop or similar
< 1252166257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T43 is 32.9 x 26.8 x 3.6 cm.
< 1252166259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, but the ones made for notebooks tend to have some extra padding
< 1252166281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, who cares about that. The only PC notebooks I'd really consider are ThinkPads, and they're sturdy.
< 1252166294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice both for your back (in case of backpack at least) and for the notebook (for obvious reasons)
< 1252166306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know, by the way, that the original iBook weighed a whole 3kg?
< 1252166309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks so... dinky.
< 1252166315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that sounds about right
< 1252166316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clamshell)
< 1252166320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have one of those :P
< 1252166326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT'S DINKY.
< 1252166332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define dinky
< 1252166338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DINKY
< 1252166341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252166345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a word.
< 1252166355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, the T43 is 2.3kg. Old notebooks sure are heavy :P
< 1252166380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw for clamshell ones: don't use the built in handle thingy
< 1252166394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not in the market for a clamshell iBook, AnMaster. "{
< 1252166394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least mine shows some worrying cracks in the plastic handle.
< 1252166395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P
< 1252166411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :( it would match your old powerpc mac perfectly
< 1252166428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed '/^\/home\// !d;s/\(.[ch]\)(\([0-9][0-9]*\)):/\1:\2:/;s/\(error\|remark\|warning\) #/\1: #/'
< 1252166428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if I was looking for a Mac and yet wanted an old notebook. Especially since they can't even run Snow Leopard, being PPC.)
< 1252166429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252166431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy fail
< 1252166441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what the hell is going on
< 1252166450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I select something in firefox and it pastes old stuff every time
< 1252166454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/imgad?id=CKr185OFk9KEdRDIARjIATIIb2Sq8OBFTU4
< 1252166457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame syngergy
< 1252166457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT JUST SEXY AS HELL
< 1252166503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, there's an old ThinkPad in the local refurbished laptop shop; I think it was an X-something.
< 1252166504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.
< 1252166508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM era, though.
< 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitions of dinky on the Web:
< 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * small and insignificant; "we stayed in a dinky old hotel"
< 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * a small locomotive
< 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * (British informal) pretty and neat; "what a dinky little hat"
< 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
< 1252166511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one did you mean
< 1252166520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh, all of them apart from the middle.
< 1252166528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252166528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... small. And cute-looking. Not 3kg looking. :P
< 1252166541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there were two ThinkPads at that shop, but one was being used as a mousepad.
< 1252166541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't small. Well the 12" 800x600 screen is
< 1252166545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the laptop itself
< 1252166551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wide borders around the screen after all
< 1252166580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/IBook_G4.jpg The iBook G4's keyboard looks nice. Also holy crap that button is big.
< 1252166590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually there were two ThinkPads at that shop, but one was being used as a mousepad. <-- sounds uncomfortable since the thinkpads I have seen are quite thick...
< 1252166615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, remember that yours was the "low-cost" model, so it compromises on weight and thickness, but no, not really.
< 1252166617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The desk wasn't very high.
< 1252166623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the monitor was on top of some books.
< 1252166631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't as makeshift-looking as it sounds.
< 1252166633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I the button isn't as much "large" as the whole laptop is "small"
< 1252166648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That button is really deep compared to the trackpad, dood. :P
< 1252166661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, deep?
< 1252166671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err you mean tall?
< 1252166671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Further in.
< 1252166682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that is not how you look at notebooks.
< 1252166689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err?
< 1252166691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look at the screen. Deep.
< 1252166705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are talking about the trackpad click button right?
< 1252166708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is also how they measure how big the keyboard/pad area is. Deepness.
< 1252166715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are using the wrong dimensions.
< 1252166717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252166729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("In 2005 the Chinese manufacturer, Lenovo, purchased the ThinkPad brand from IBM, in a five year deal whereby IBM still helps in the marketing and support of these products." that explains the ibm.com)
< 1252166735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, screen depth refers to number of bits per pixel...
< 1252166742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Added the Windows key to all 60-series and newer laptops making all the Windows shortcuts possible. (Although possible before with the keyboard remapping utility)"
< 1252166743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, only lenovo did that?
< 1252166751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't know what the word depth means? Really?
< 1252166761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ported the ThinkPad keyboard into stand-alone keyboards for desktop PCs in PS/2 or USB flavor. [12]"
< 1252166761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow.
< 1252166764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I do, like widthxheightxdepth
< 1252166768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drools
< 1252166774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-45868
< 1252166776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT HAS A NIPPLE
< 1252166779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I fail to see which dimension is which here
< 1252166784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best input device evar
< 1252166803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually no, it is better to switch between trackpoint and touchpad IME
< 1252166809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has both
< 1252166810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that one has both
< 1252166812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252166817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that lovely keyboard.
< 1252166822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like no windows key, though.
< 1252166827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that doesn't look like a logo.
< 1252166852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and indeed, old thinkpads had no windows key iirc.
< 1252166853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A disturbing trend in keyboards recently: Microsoft are getting people to do the windows-logo-surrounded-by-orb thing PHYSICALLY.
< 1252166872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A convex bit of smooth plastic pressed into the key with the windows logo on it.
< 1252166882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean keys should feel good to type?
< 1252166887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MICROSOFT ARE GIVING US MONEY!
< 1252166909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about ms ergonomic keyboards? If they still make them
< 1252166916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno
< 1252166920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://computersolutions.co.nz/images/newsletter/2007-10-14/Windows%20Key.jpg ;; example
< 1252166968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet old notebooks don't have very good battery life...
< 1252166985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on my thinkpad there is a circle around the windows logo, but it is made so that the windows logo is slightly below the surface of the key, hardly possible to notice at all.
< 1252166996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the surface inside the circle is flat
< 1252167000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's moving me slightly towards an Apple notebook, actually. All the MacBook Pros have 7 hours battery life apart from the 17" model, which has 8.
< 1252167015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess they can't anything convex on a laptop :)
< 1252167016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And yes, in testing they get near these in real world use.)
< 1252167044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Graphs: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3580&p=4)
< 1252167051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That looks like it'd feel absolutely horrid
< 1252167055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH it's not a very important key
< 1252167056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It does
< 1252167064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And it is on a Mac, e.g.
< 1252167069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's option there
< 1252167073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Alt becoming Command)
< 1252167099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean windows key is the super key :P
< 1252167104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252167107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option is Alt.
< 1252167112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and menu is compose)
< 1252167113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command is Meta.
< 1252167125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well on macs yes
< 1252167131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Option is Compose I guess.
< 1252167138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option-e e → é
< 1252167138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh?
< 1252167151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option-a a → ā
< 1252167154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option-e a → á
< 1252167156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1252167161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's in shortcuts too.
< 1252167165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Control, Compose and Meta.
< 1252167190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, press compose release, type mu gives µ
< 1252167198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know
< 1252167205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Compose-' e = é, for example
< 1252167210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same general idea
< 1252167218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do special characters, maybe with argument"
< 1252167220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1252167222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Option fits
< 1252167235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Command is the main shortcut key for, well, commands.
< 1252167238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Meta definitely fits.
< 1252167240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where pi is with compose
< 1252167262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, then you get silly combinations like Compose-Command-v because Compose is just arbitrary in a shortcut.
< 1252167268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Logitech illuminated has the windows-logo-emboss-thing, and I personally don't really notice it that much; it looks to have a bith smoother rim around the logo than in that picture, though.
< 1252167282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use it much, since I've bound all window-manager shortcuts to that.
< 1252167380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers writing a paper on erroneously spatial interfaces
< 1252167389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because that term, that I just invented, is awesome.
< 1252167462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The windows key keycap design is rather strictly regulated, see all 23 pages of http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/e/1/de1e0c8f-a222-47bc-b78b-1656d4cf3cf7/HardwareStartButtonV102.doc (if you can open a Word .doc, anyway)
< 1252167494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a keyboard whose icon for the Windows key is a turd.
< 1252167500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just press Turd-Q."
< 1252167536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That document is one of the requirements if you want that "Windows Logo Program" thing, so you can put the logo on the box.
< 1252167553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SHAPE \* MERGEFORMAT
< 1252167553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure 1: Sample implementation of the Hardware Start Button
< 1252167570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same idea, but instead of a turd, the text "SHAPE \* MERGEFORMAT".
< 1252167582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Diameter of the Chamfer"
< 1252167804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But see, it's not like they're strict about the stuff; you can use a "matte finish with a consistent texture of MT11000 or equivalent" instead of the "SPI A2 gloss finish". Well, of course only if you're distributing the keyboard in the EU area.
< 1252167877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252167911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why is it that in 2008 were there over 3 million searches on the keywords Obama Antichrist" and "Obama Messiah"?.......Does Barack Obama have an apocalyptic role given the global financial circumstances in which he has risen to power. Is he a man divinely appointed or an agent of the New World Order objective?"
< 1252167917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Apple has an equally ridiculous thing, it's just internal because they make all their own keyboards :-P
< 1252167934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not really, they've differed significantly
< 1252167947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, on my previous keyboard it was "⌥ alt" or something, on this it's
< 1252167949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alt
< 1252167949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1252167950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option"
< 1252167987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this, it's "(hollow apple) ⌘", on the later ones, it's "command ⌘".
< 1252168022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even the Apple logo is pretty subtle. Certainly no polished domes for it.
< 1252168048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the thing with the Apple keyboard is all done with Bluetooth Reality Distortion Fields.
< 1252168059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically you see Steve Jobs. All the time. And nothing else.
< 1252168060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's great.
< 1252168317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but they would never let another company produce keyboards with apple logos I bet
< 1252168329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A company defending their logo
< 1252168333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil! Boycott Apple.
< 1252168389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's horrible. And it seems Microsoft are positively open compared to apple in this case ;P
< 1252168517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other silly warning from ICC: warning #12330: function "system" possibly accepts command line
< 1252168525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah? that's the whole point isn't it?
< 1252168594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like a strong AI compiler or something
< 1252168648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh you mean it is intended for "don't use this in a web server" kind of thing warning?
< 1252168655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could possibly explain it
< 1252168661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a "yo, man, be careful with this input"
< 1252168672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah that's what I meant
< 1252170166 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252170504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do ORTH instructions reflect on error?
< 1252170511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can they error?
< 1252170519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well the output string one could
< 1252170524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,*
< 1252170547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact any output one could.
< 1252170551 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to you I guess
< 1252170577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the reason I asked was simply that ORTH is after all based on another language.
< 1252170669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what they do there
< 1252171246 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-13-131.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252171472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about this ICC warning:
< 1252171482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"return value of function "clearerr" is ignored
< 1252171491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to man page the prototype is:
< 1252171498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void clearerr(FILE *stream);
< 1252171515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't happen to any other void function as far as I can tell
< 1252171535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably then isn't void "in reality", i.e. in the system headers.
< 1252171557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/stdio.h:extern void clearerr (FILE *__stream) __THROW;
< 1252171572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious. Maybe ICC's just very confused.
< 1252171623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it provides it's own stdio headers? doesn't make any sense... but who knows... *greps*
< 1252171627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you actually have there included, but one would guess not having that would lead to other warnings.
< 1252171641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I include stdio.h
< 1252171662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that was at the sc3 level btw
< 1252171720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, grepping the whole icc directory didn't turn up any clearerr except stuff like "binary file /opt/intel/Compiler/11.1/046/bin/intel64/icc matches"
< 1252171746 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__THROW?
< 1252171749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ nm -D /home/arvid/local/intel/Compiler/11.1/046/bin/intel64/icc | grep clearerr
< 1252171749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : U clearerr
< 1252171764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, unknown, it's gnu headers. would take way to long to track that down
< 1252171775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are things like ctags
< 1252171784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a lot of __BEGIN_NAMESPACE_STD macros.
< 1252171814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are probably using the same header for the thing, or whatever, and want the empty-throw-declaration there. Or something.
< 1252171829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__THROW seems to be defined in lots of places
< 1252171848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try removing __THROw and see if it still complains
< 1252171851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from grep (keep in mind that there are no context lines here):
< 1252171853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From clearerr)
< 1252171853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/cdefs.h:# define __THROW __attribute__ ((__nothrow__))
< 1252171853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/cdefs.h:# define __THROW throw ()
< 1252171858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right
< 1252171870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just sounds like the type of thing that might be causing it.
< 1252171872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252171874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prolly is
< 1252171880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how throw = nothrow
< 1252171883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something :P
< 1252171883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, __THROW is there for stuff it doesn't complain about though
< 1252171893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe you aren't ignoring that stuff.
< 1252171894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I think those two lines there just contradicted itself
< 1252171897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252171899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think it's defined empty for the not-gcc case.
< 1252171899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :themselves
< 1252171901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it's using a different #defined value there.
< 1252171907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: icc says it's gcc.
< 1252171908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ICC claims to be GCC, IIRC.
< 1252171908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ICC defined __GNUC__ though
< 1252171912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1252171945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case it really shouldn't be confused by GCC attributes.
< 1252171974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which make all hell break loose in cfunge, except that I explicitly check for __INTEL_COMPILER
< 1252172025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My headers define __THROW to "__attribute__ ((__nothrow__))" for (not C++, GCC >= 3.3); to "throw ()" for (C++, GCC >= 2.8) and to empty otherwise.
< 1252172032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what does throw() in C++ mean?
< 1252172039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not throw exceptions.
< 1252172040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"may not throw"?
< 1252172042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252172050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not call it nothrow() or something then
< 1252172060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "throw with an empty list".
< 1252172064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes perfect sense.
< 1252172069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed
< 1252172071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the list of exceptions we may throw: none.
< 1252172086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the same thing as __attribute__ ((nothrow)) I guess, though I don't know what the attribute actually does in non-C++ code.
< 1252172105 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252172117 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252172151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seems pretty unclear from gcc docs too
< 1252172156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The `nothrow' attribute is used to inform the compiler that a function cannot throw an exception."
< 1252172160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The nothrow attribute is used to inform the compiler that a function cannot throw an exception. For example, most functions in the standard C library can be guaranteed not to throw an exception with the notable exceptions of qsort and bsearch that take function pointer arguments. The nothrow attribute is not implemented in GCC versions earlier than 3.3."
< 1252172161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252172184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wasn't aware C functions could throw exceptions
< 1252172201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's for compiling C with -fexceptions.
< 1252172216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would the point of THAT be...
< 1252172218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you may need to enable this option when compiling C code that needs to interoperate properly with exception handlers written in C++"
< 1252172240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel I should really repeat the above line :P
< 1252172302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, heh, it's in the cdefs.h header too: "For gcc 3.2 and up we even mark C functions as non-throwing using a function attribute since programs can use the -fexceptions options for C code as well."
< 1252172320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it how the comment says "for gcc 3.2 and up" while the actual test is __GNUC_PREREQ (3, 3).
< 1252172418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The system headers are always so messy.
< 1252172428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, much less so on freebsd though
< 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* These two macros are not used in glibc anymore. They are kept here
< 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : only because some other projects expect the macros to be defined. */
< 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __P(args) args
< 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __PMT(args) args
< 1252172437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes the GNU ones are
< 1252172453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess those are related to prototypes somehow
< 1252172486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think people do wrap arguments in a __P() so it can be defined empty if you want to omit them.
< 1252172494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what __PMT is for.
< 1252172499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __ptr_t void *
< 1252172499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __long_double_t long double
< 1252172502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252172506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc ate the comment above
< 1252172508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* This is not a typedef so `const __ptr_t' does the right thing. */
< 1252172510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it
< 1252172518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that explains the first, but not the second
< 1252172553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably so that "unsigned __long_double_t" will work. :p
< 1252172581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw what would the const do if it was a typedef
< 1252172593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the actual variable itself const rather than the pointed to value?
< 1252172599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252172630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the whole "hide a pointer in typedef" thing anyway.
< 1252172634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any way to make the actual pointer const if you don't want to use a typedef? Err would it be something like void* const?
< 1252172661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously hate how C types are defined
< 1252172700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, void* const foo; would be it, I think.
< 1252172710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay now ICC is just getting damn silly. It errors that while(true) is an infinite loop....
< 1252172715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl> explain void* const foo;
< 1252172715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare foo as const pointer to void
< 1252172725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has it never heard of main loops?
< 1252172735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (;;)
< 1252172750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same error, I just checked
< 1252172758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a reasonable error to me
< 1252172761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is in -diag-enable c3
< 1252172763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1252172796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really, because when written like that it is usually intended. And it doesn't need a strong AI to detect. After all GCC does it.
< 1252172805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put it on super-pedantic mode
< 1252172818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're an idiot and do that when you don't want it to be super pedantic
< 1252172820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit's your fault.
< 1252172825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but the pedanticness should make sense IMO :P
< 1252172829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does.
< 1252173254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C++ you can write "const void *foo" and "void const *foo" and they mean the same thing; I *think* you can do the same in C too, though my version of cdecl doesn't understand the latter.
< 1252173306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... Is it trying to make C not-TC? :P
< 1252173328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, err you must have misunderstood what I was suggesting
< 1252173330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, you can, in C.
< 1252173354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not that C is TC without file IO. ;P
< 1252173380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(true); -- Getting rid of that means no TC
< 1252173391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, never suggested that. It was ICC who did
< 1252173397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/who/that/
< 1252173408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure it is. Via an annoying isomorphism with lambda calculus. :P
< 1252173414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in fact the case was while(true) { blah blah }
< 1252173429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you have limited memory since size of size_t must be finite
< 1252173438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(specific implementations are not; damned finite stack)
< 1252173495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in fact it is defined that sizeof(void*) must be finite.
< 1252173526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't just "no implementation is TC" here. (because that is true for every language then)
< 1252173551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, sure. But not everything on the stack needs to be within that finite memory space.
< 1252173566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x;
< 1252173567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&x
< 1252173610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Since C is not dynamic, one need not worry about making everything addressable. Just everything that's addressed.
< 1252173619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x;
< 1252173625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1252173628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, um yes
< 1252173630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq:
< 1252173639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{int x$N} * sizeof(int*)+1
< 1252173649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{&x$N} * sizeof(int*)+1
< 1252173651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now, bitch
< 1252173674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, since you can take an an address of anything on stack and pass it on to callees
< 1252173690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, of course, cannot be done infinitely. Fortunately, that's not needed for Turing completeness.
< 1252173696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that is not what he said
< 1252173702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: C is not TC, man.
< 1252173710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has been proved, more or less.
< 1252173739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It has functions and a call stack of potentially infinite size.
< 1252173745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1252173749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That call stack must be pointerable.
< 1252173755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also iirc it is valid to do something like: int i, j; int* base = &i; ssize_t diff = &j - &i; and then use base+diff to access j
< 1252173757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then GCC does not implement C.
< 1252173759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Besides, functions are not enough.
< 1252173764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to PASS functions.
< 1252173764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that is probably gray-zone
< 1252173767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those functions must be POINTERS.
< 1252173771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and POINTERS are of finite size.
< 1252173784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Okay, that's a much better argument.
< 1252173784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You DO have to pass functions for the LC)
< 1252173789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read: not a non-sequitur)
< 1252173851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is probably TC if you include the file IO though... iirc.
< 1252173862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly not
< 1252173862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1252173870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If given an infinite filesystem.
< 1252173901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suspect it isn't. Files are seekable. the offset in files is of the type off_t, which is also finite. There is a finite number of filenames you can fit into memory (since memory is finite)
< 1252173922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use files of 1-byte.
< 1252173933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fopen("swap489573495834985739498732814683779831647842672645678926587932645","w")
< 1252173943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? how would that help.
< 1252173945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc filenames are finite
< 1252173951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't need infinitely large files
< 1252173960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course not
< 1252173969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need infinite number of files then
< 1252173980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's been shown that the C file io is tc
< 1252174005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not possible if there is a finite number of possible filenames.
< 1252174014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fine. link?
< 1252174019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just "infinite number of possible filenames in memory".
< 1252174032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do a tape with an infinite-depth chain of subdirectories, and move around it with chdir.
< 1252174038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah
< 1252174044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, index files pointing to new and old filenames
< 1252174048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can drop them from memory
< 1252174058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would work, but then you mean C + POSIX iirc
< 1252174064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not pure C with file IO
< 1252174115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C standard describes no such thing as "directory"
< 1252174124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :files yes, but not directories
< 1252174149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn.
< 1252174162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good night
< 1252174179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that mean you're leaving? Say yes.
< 1252174186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought you were
< 1252174197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "yawn" means "I am leaving now".
< 1252174224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought it was "yawn, I'm feeling sleepy, see you tomorrow"
< 1252174556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw I found out why ICC produced a binary for cfunge that was more than twice as slow as that gcc produced (on mycology that is)...
< 1252174593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hiding some attributes ICC didn't understand from it. When I hide those from GCC too... ICC and GCC are exactly even.
< 1252174653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news is that last version of ICC now support them. And with those visible to ICC... ICC and GCC are exactly even but at the much shorter time.
< 1252174671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So did it take 0.006 instead of 0.003s
< 1252174691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 0.160 vs 0.029
< 1252174698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So SLOW!
< 1252174724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, relatively yes...
< 1252174743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agree or disagree: 'If [the 80386] were an unencumbered design, it would have had a 32-bit "word", but as an extension of the 8086, its "word" continued to be considered as 16 bits.'
< 1252174751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Agree in what way
< 1252174757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it factually true? Should it have been that way?
< 1252174775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, more than 5 times as slow. When you look at it that way, the difference is very large
< 1252174776 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it true that most people consider the x86's word 16 bits
< 1252174782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, is it?
< 1252174796 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never considered it 16 bits for the 32- or 64-bit machines
< 1252174803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess it isn't?
< 1252174811 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not most people
< 1252174824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it 16-bit
< 1252174829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wikipedia article that's from and a comment in the discussion suggests that most people do, in fact, consider it 16-bit
< 1252174835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I guess this is mainly about the DOS/windows world, where int32_t is known as DWORD
< 1252174836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: See the quote.
< 1252174839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which stands for double word
< 1252174841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not helpful
< 1252174843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1252174845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know about "most people", but GDB considers "word" to be 32 bits; for example x/1w dumps out 32 bits; 16 bits is a half-word.
< 1252174846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, that's one place where it is like that.
< 1252174862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the entire windows API yes
< 1252174872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1252174909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, the official assembly mnemonics have several cases of things like stos{b,w,d,q} with 16-bit word, 32-bit dword and 64-bit qword.
< 1252174928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT&T, yes.
< 1252174933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think it is used a lot on linux (the term word that is)
< 1252174942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And actually those Intel ones too, yes.
< 1252174963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stos[bwdq] being one of the few that comes with a size
< 1252174976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does stos* do now again
< 1252174984 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, everybody's a C programmer so they just talk about size_t ;-)
< 1252174991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stores al/ax/eax/rax into di/edi/rdi.
< 1252174995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stores a byte at ... yeah
< 1252175005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, stosb does.
< 1252175016 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Th others store more than a byte. :-P
< 1252175019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well win32 api is C iirc
< 1252175022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, and I guess there's some segment selector involved too, I don't remember which one.
< 1252175024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,*
< 1252175047 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite, but they're like OpenGL in that they decided to make their own integer types for everything.
< 1252175052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait what... isn't that same as mov eax,edi?
< 1252175071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it also increments edi.
< 1252175075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the suitable number.
< 1252175077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252175083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, define suitable
< 1252175090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of bytes in the thing you put there.
< 1252175099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 for stosb, 2 for stosw, 4 for stosd, 8 for stosq.
< 1252175100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It decrements it if DF = 1.
< 1252175108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... what use is this
< 1252175110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's also a direction flag you can set or clear.
< 1252175110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously
< 1252175121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: memset: rep stosb
< 1252175122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? It's the fast way to do memset, for one thing.
< 1252175124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah.
< 1252175135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rep stosb.
< 1252175138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it still the fast way, I wonder.
< 1252175140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like an alien tongue!
< 1252175144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: unlikely
< 1252175148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's *a* fast way anyway.
< 1252175159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nah, libc one uses SIMD nowdays
< 1252175167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc*
< 1252175167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*glibc
< 1252175170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: <3
< 1252175171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252175177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1252175203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the AMD "Architecture Programmer's Manual" defines "word" as "Two bytes, or 16 bits."
< 1252175219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's certainly common; I'm sure you could add a [citation needed] for the "most people" part.
< 1252175224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would rep stosb work... wouldn't it just be mov eax,edi followed by substracting 2 from edi? forever
< 1252175225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but AMD is an asian knock-off company that uses child labor.
< 1252175228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't trust them.
< 1252175230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make sense
< 1252175235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rep" decrements ecx/rcx.
< 1252175237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at cpu docs
< 1252175238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they do, since then they can say "stosw moves a word"
< 1252175264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also deliberately disable Intel's security features.
< 1252175273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not quote from a manual you can buy in stores?
< 1252175293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you meant edi is used as an adress
< 1252175299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it is moved to edi
< 1252175310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course.
< 1252175311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Stores al/ax/eax/rax into di/edi/rdi.
< 1252175316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well wasn't clear from that
< 1252175320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,*
< 1252175340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I was assuming an AI-complete reader.
< 1252175358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, burn
< 1252175377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They also deliberately disable Intel's security features. <-- I can't even imagine how you thought of that...
< 1252175390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :P
< 1252175393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, it's true. Don't tell me you've been deceived, AnMaster.
< 1252175414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To wit:
< 1252175420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[If your son has requested a new "processor" from a company called "AMD", this is genuine cause for alarm. AMD is a third-world based company who make inferior, "knock-off" copies of American processor chips. They use child labor extensively in their third world sweatshops, and they deliberately disable the security features that American processor makers, such as Intel, use to prevent hacking. AMD chips are never sold in stores, and you will most likely be
< 1252175420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you have to order them from internet sites.]]
< 1252175422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have no idea what you are talking about simply. What security feature to be specific?
< 1252175422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html
< 1252175444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^add told to the cut off line
< 1252175461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "btold" ?
< 1252175470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The clog line ends with "be".
< 1252175475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does my line.
< 1252175477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one here doesn't
< 1252175478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1252175495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it didn't send \r and your client stripped off the last two chars.
< 1252175504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The line here ends with "b" too. Strange.
< 1252175511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly, I'm on xchat atm
< 1252175550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the bip bouncer log line ends with "-- likely b", that's curious too.
< 1252175571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did we find an off-by-one bug in various software? :-P
< 1252175577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't do my logging in znc so can't check there
< 1252175578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite so!
< 1252175581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By accident!
< 1252175583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suspect it may be server side
< 1252175598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, then it's some server that routed it that failed
< 1252175605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm.
< 1252175608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suspect that server name may be included
< 1252175614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think it might be the ident-message-prefix thing.
< 1252175615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it?
< 1252175618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It adds at least a + there.
< 1252175618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which means if the server happens to have a long name...
< 1252175623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, cool
< 1252175624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes that
< 1252175630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are IRC lines limited anyway
< 1252175630 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The what now?
< 1252175632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes my client activates that feature too
< 1252175632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And xchat toggles that feature on.
< 1252175637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from bullshit historical reasons
< 1252175655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's a freenode thing which you can toggle on which makes the server prefix a + to messages from identified-to-nickserv people, and a - to others.
< 1252175666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha.
< 1252175667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess neither clog nor whatever client Deewiant uses implements that feature
< 1252175670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: With the intention that it'll be easy to see no-one's the faking.
< 1252175676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPAB IDENTIFY-MSG or something, was it.
< 1252175717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is rather useful in irc bots. Make sure the user is really identified without having to do a whois after. for authentication with the irc bot
< 1252175728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whois could potentially have race conditions too
< 1252175744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use name like a real man, I'm sure nobody will /nick name and then !system rm -rf /
< 1252175746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's very widespread feature to have by-default, but of course there's an Irssi script.
< 1252175773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine: Evil guy sends message, gets ghosted by real nick owner, bot sends whois, real nick owner identifies, server replies to whois, bot allows evil command
< 1252175817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think I seen any other irc server than Hyperion implementing the feature.
< 1252175850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why are IRC lines limited anyway Apart from bullshit historical reasons <-- for bullshit historical reasons
< 1252175863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why do current servers abide by this limit
< 1252175869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc there are clients that crash on overly long lines.
< 1252175876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck them
< 1252175885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets() for the win
< 1252175889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, NOTABUG (no I don't agree with this)
< 1252175891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rcfunge still has that in
< 1252175893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, quite
< 1252175899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I checked that it doesn't ever call the function that uses it
< 1252175904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252175910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, evil dead code?
< 1252175914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just there for the linker warning
< 1252175922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just some helper function intended for gdb call?
< 1252175932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe?
< 1252175941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, RCFunge 2's code is better, isn't it?
< 1252175950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Better" in what way
< 1252175956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit more modular, I guess
< 1252175967 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it has to wrap everything in a struct for MVRS to work
< 1252175971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really, it was trivial to crash it iirc
< 1252175996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every software has bugs
< 1252175997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that was some rc. Haven't tried any "stable" version of it
< 1252176017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well trivial as in providing a command line argument but no file or something like that
< 1252176020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1252176023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all
< 1252176024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./rcfunge --help
< 1252176025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1252176036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's sort of low down on the things I'd write if I was writing my own option parser code for an unstable version
< 1252176056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, want to hear why it crashed?
< 1252176062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1252176068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more or less filename = argv[argc-1];
< 1252176083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it checked that there was at least one argument
< 1252176097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow that ended up crashing it if it started with a -
< 1252176103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such a file didn't exist
< 1252176111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, most people write a command line interface that they can use for testing when using an unstable release
< 1252176125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd concentrate on e.g. the funge support, personally
< 1252176128 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they? I don't
< 1252176141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they're the kind to write their own command line parsers.
< 1252176149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am
< 1252176161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rc/funge doesn't run on windows iirc. So there is no reason to not use getopt() just as well.
< 1252176162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because Tango didn't have one, though, but anyway
< 1252176168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, disproof by sample size of 1
< 1252176177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly!
< 1252176178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because getopt's interface is shit, for one
< 1252176180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.instantrimshot.com
< 1252176190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, getopt_long interface is yes
< 1252176194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I JUST SEE A BLANK WHITE PAGE
< 1252176198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And getopt
< 1252176199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not getopt()
< 1252176202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO
< 1252176206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is it shitty?
< 1252176234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Duplication of naming the options
< 1252176240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both the switch and getopt()
< 1252176253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Incomprehensible suffixes like :, that look like options in themselves
< 1252176263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolly others
< 1252176266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -: isn't very common
< 1252176279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant, in "bf:" : looks like an option
< 1252176293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an unreadable DSL
< 1252176295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when in a getopt string
< 1252176297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you already know
< 1252176299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is stupid
< 1252176304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's arbitrary and unneeded
< 1252176304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I find it readable
< 1252176307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"+bEFfhSs:t:VvW"
< 1252176308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example
< 1252176314 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fuck?
< 1252176324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, AnMaster?
< 1252176328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that meant to be a counterargument?
< 1252176335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks almost as bad as J
< 1252176338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, of course it is readable. F: means it F takes an argument
< 1252176345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HEY NOW.
< 1252176345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes
< 1252176349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it easy to read
< 1252176356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J is WAY worse
< 1252176357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :-)
< 1252176419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only issue here is that + means: "hey you! yes I mean you getopt of glibc! Follow POSIX today or else!"
< 1252176422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9's argument parsing is better
< 1252176429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be a bit confusing
< 1252176431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll draft up something that doesn't look ugly
< 1252176449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it will be completely unlike J then?
< 1252176467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J isn't unreadable just because you don't use \32.
< 1252176498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, getopt's DSL isn't unreadable just because it doesn't use \32 either
< 1252176516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. It's unreadable for entirely different reasons
< 1252176523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as is J
< 1252176527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not.
< 1252176538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is. If getopt's DSL is
< 1252176546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because reading getopt's DSL is trivial
< 1252176570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that the duplication in the switch statement is a small issue though
< 1252176587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yawn.
< 1252176636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you realise that saying J is readable and getopt's DSL isn't makes you a hypocrite?
< 1252176643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.............
< 1252176658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not
< 1252176660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are so many logical flaws with my statement that I'd rather hit myself on the head with a baseball bat than try and rebut it.
< 1252176691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But let's try with the first: "He thinks getopt is unreadable, I think J is unreadable, therefore he must think J is unreadable or he is a hypocrite".
< 1252176699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? That doesn't logically follow at all? Oh my.
< 1252176734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you seemed to be indicating that your opinion on getopt above was some sort of "universal truth"
< 1252176743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to point out the flaw in this
< 1252176754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by showing how absurd it is
< 1252176778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN SOMEONE PLEASE KNOCK ME OUT? I'M BEING TOLD, YET AGAIN, TO PREFIX EVERY-FUCKING-THING I SAY WITH "IN MY OPINION"!
< 1252176791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to hell. in my opinion.
< 1252176800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a postfix, not a prefix.
< 1252176827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It flows better.
< 1252176830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. Both are allowed. You could even insert it in the middle for variation.
< 1252176868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sed is unreadable unless you know it too
< 1252176892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sing with me: Fallacy, fallacy, fallacy/Phallusy, phallusy, wait, what is this about again?
< 1252177227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phallic.
< 1252177242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phallusy.
< 1252177272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getopt is a lot simpler to learn than J though. getopt DSL goes like: Every alphanumeric letter is a valid flag. : means the flag is supposed to have an argmuent. There is a few more things to it that aren't commonly used. But that is it. Oh and GNU adds a few other uncommon things. All of these uncommon things are about special meaning if first char of string is a non-alphanumeric char
< 1252177327 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252177334 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252177335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I fail to see how that is hard to understand.
< 1252177367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather the issue would be in how it reports what it found to the app. That is a bit more complex.
< 1252177431 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i sum up an innumerable amount of positive real numbers, why is the sum necessarily infinite?
< 1252177442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is: getopt returns found flag, any argument is put in the global variable optarg (indeed, getopt isn't thread safe).
< 1252177456 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general sum of X is the supremum of all sums of finite subsets of X
< 1252177461 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252177482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? means "unlisted flag"
< 1252177510 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252177541 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean clearly you can't construct something like 0.5^-n for all n, because the decimal expansion needs to start having zeroes to its left, so you can find an injection to N by simply counting the zeroes... but that's very imprecise
< 1252177545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll ask #math
< 1252177560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, would you say that it is easy to understand that example I gave above knowing this?
< 1252177570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you exist??????????
< 1252177590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh, sure it's presumably quite simple
< 1252177595 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great idea taking a measure theory course with a background of one basic course in analysis
< 1252177597 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252177603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I thought the point was more intuitiveness and such
< 1252177623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything is intuitive if you can spend 5 minutes learning it! Yay!
< 1252177638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look forward to the system where every call requires such explanation.
< 1252177647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if the API was supposed to be intutive, why would we have man pages
< 1252177662 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We wouldn't, now would we.
< 1252177662 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: totally.
< 1252177666 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just been kinda busy
< 1252177672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, it's not like things called edge cases exist for most calls or anything
< 1252177676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nosiree
< 1252177682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly your plan results in the awful demise of man pages
< 1252177697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it's easy to infer which arguments the order to go in and therefore your plan would obsolete them.
< 1252177704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, calls shouldn't be intuitive. QED
< 1252177710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well design some way to make it intutive to open a newly created file with user access only and fail if the file already exists
< 1252177712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"which arguments the order to go in"?
< 1252177718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in read-write mode
< 1252177743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open("file name", USER_ACCESS_ONLY | FAIL_IF_EXISTS | READ_WRITE_MODE);
< 1252177778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you would still need some place to document if it was FAILS_IF_EXISTS or FAIL_IF_EXISTING or similar
< 1252177811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't ask me, I'm just trying to translate AnMaster's argument "If APIs were intuitive we wouldn't need man pages. Therefore getopt shouldn't be intuitive."
< 1252177813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite, you still need documentation. But the difference here is that you can read the code and know what it does.
< 1252177818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And failing massively as every clause of that sentence is stupid
< 1252177872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in truth I think it is open("file name", O_EXCL | O_RDWR, S_IRWXU);
< 1252177878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it isn't very intutive
< 1252177883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRWXU <3
< 1252177883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to read man page even
< 1252177892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I r wx u → I are with you
< 1252177895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : S_IRWXU 00700 user (file owner) has read, write and execute permission
< 1252177896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ I am with you
< 1252177898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am with you <3
< 1252177906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wx = with?
< 1252177911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'M NOT SURE AnMaster RECIPROCATES YOUR DESIRE
< 1252177916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Write Execute
< 1252177919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly
< 1252177922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoooooooooosh
< 1252177927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, REALLY.
< 1252177932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S_IRUSR <-- I R User?
< 1252177933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEVER KNEW
< 1252177944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users R Us!
< 1252177971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "user has read permission" btw
< 1252177972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users are not toys.
< 1252177983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say Toys R Us
< 1252177992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whooooooooooosh x 2
< 1252177998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though of course that is what I was referencing
< 1252178018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scours thinkwiki for 4:3 thinkpads
< 1252178021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR may be saner for most temp files
< 1252178030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you wanted good battery time?
< 1252178038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, they're worth a look
< 1252178042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't know if you can find new batteries for old computers
< 1252178051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can.......
< 1252178059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, (I are user and I'm with user)?
< 1252178061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apart from being initially worse, they also tend to get worse over time
< 1252178068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D
< 1252178074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that like a... transformative masturbation fantasy?
< 1252178075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT MAKES NO SENSE.
< 1252178091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um sounds more like some kind of deep zen thing to me
< 1252178097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As if
< 1252178101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the cosmic flow or such
< 1252178121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem:
< 1252178133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If *I* was in charge of the DL's computer, I wouldn't put on *only* Linux or *only* Windows or what have you. I think the DL needs a multiboot machine, and would really appreciate it if you tried to make him one with everything."
< 1252178135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant your "translation" of it
< 1252178158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, DL's?
< 1252178162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dalai Lama
< 1252178165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252178166 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, one guy on #math says what i ask doesn't make sense, other says what i'm trying to prove is true
< 1252178167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252178171 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking useless
< 1252178177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is useless
< 1252178178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN BED
< 1252178183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KarZING
< 1252178195 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is useless getting fucked?
< 1252178200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1252178201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:240 ;; This looks good!
< 1252178211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High-res, no less.
< 1252178217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you want 4:3 btw
< 1252178225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I thought you disliked non-widescreen
< 1252178240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:00 A 14" 4:3 notebook is the same width as a 12" 16:10 notebook and quite a bit taller...
< 1252178241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:01 (+ prolly less bezel than a 12"; e.g. look at the X200's)
< 1252178241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:07 = more screen space while fitting on my lap
< 1252178250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252178254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, # Intel Mobile Celeron 300, 366 or 400 CPU
< 1252178255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252178257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For big screens, yes, I prefer 16:10
< 1252178276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the extra height is mostly useless, and you can have 4:3 things side by side
< 1252178280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neomagic MagicGraph128XD
< 1252178282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean 8:5
< 1252178287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's amused at its obsolescence.
< 1252178305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also a special card JUST TO DISPLAY GRAPHS!
< 1252178316 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after telling me the definition doesn't make sense, the guy asks "what's a supermum"
< 1252178319 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*supernum
< 1252178321 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252178324 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no supermum right
< 1252178325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is 10.4"?
< 1252178326 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supremum*
< 1252178329 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just... sounded like supermom
< 1252178329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super mum.
< 1252178337 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, but that was a quote
< 1252178340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supernun
< 1252178342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252178342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Up to 12GB hard drive, bitch
< 1252178350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it was, wasn't it.
< 1252178358 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yesn't it
< 1252178359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought nun's weren't supposed to me mum's?
< 1252178365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/groan
< 1252178373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also *be
< 1252178381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but that would explain a lot about you :P
< 1252178390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1252178435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your nu^H^Hmum
< 1252178444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how the T43 and T43p differ
< 1252178454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, by one letter
< 1252178461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I stab you?
< 1252178475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the latter has a different gfx card
< 1252178481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And moar RAM by default
< 1252178492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But both support up to 2GB maximum
< 1252178503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those Pentium Ms must run hot
< 1252178516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T60 looks shiny; Core 2 Duo, even.
< 1252178523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"14.1" TFT display with 1400x1050 resolution"
< 1252178526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that's some dpi.
< 1252178545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 124. Still.
< 1252178557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"512 MB or 1 GB PC2-5300 memory standard upgradable to 4 GB1"
< 1252178579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks nice. Quite heavy though; 2.45-2.5kg for the 9-cell on the 14" and the 6-cell probably sucks.
< 1252178606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a t60p that only has the higher resolution and I don't know what else. Oh, it has that ATI card.
< 1252178612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess p meant "discrete graphics".
< 1252178616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and higher specs"
< 1252178623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, higher base specs
< 1252178623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is
< 1252178673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, an issue with all these is that they'll be second hand, and I doubt most ThinkPad owners are terribly careful with 'em...
< 1252178701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, The T60 gains a windows key at the expense of fn/control/alt becoming smaller
< 1252178704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the
< 1252178735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ThinkPad T60 under review is a 15.0" variety with an SXGA+ (1400 x 1050) and has what Lenovo calls "FlexView" technology to provide very wide viewing angles"
< 1252178741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if I could find a 14" with that
< 1252178752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wonder how many nits they have)
< 1252178767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Experiences may differ with a 14" size screen, there is no FlexView offering on that screen size."
< 1252178768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'aww
< 1252178849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the 9-cell battery with the T60 being reviewed. It adds a bit of weight over the standard 6-cell and sticks out but if you want close to 4 hours of battery life with the 15" screen model you'll need this size. In using the T60 without Wi-Fi and at medium brightness (3rd notch of 7) it got 3 hours 42 minutes of battery life when used lightly (typing review, or idling). You can expect to get over 3 hours with Wi-Fi on and finishing a DVD with the 9-cell
< 1252178849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery shouldn't be a problem, well, unless it's Lord of the Rings.
< 1252178849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T60 14" screen size will do much better in terms of time of battery life per cell because a smaller screen just drains less battery. My guess is the 6-cell battery for the T60 14" will get you about what the 9-cell battery does for the 15" -- again, that's just a mildly educated guess.
< 1252178851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh
< 1252178867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could expect like 5-6 hours with the 9 cell on the 14"
< 1252178870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't bad at all
< 1252178896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/9340.gif ;; clever interface!
< 1252178917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Runs cool and quiet, no overheating issues even with a fast processor and dedicated video card"
< 1252178929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T60 sure looks appealing
< 1252178929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not bad, but I always thought it was a bit pointless versus just a sorted list
< 1252178949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's much easier to see which networks have a better signal
< 1252178959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it can happen unconsciously, instead of looking at a meter
< 1252178969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Than from a list where the top one is the best and the worse are below?
< 1252178978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't give you an idea of scale
< 1252178987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True
< 1252178988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., you might think the Levkoff Network is only slightly worse than the belkin54g
< 1252178990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, does it matter?
< 1252179005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it affects the speed
< 1252179013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but does anybody care
< 1252179025 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you'll try from fastest to next-fastest anyway
< 1252179028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or?
< 1252179032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to show it, might as well
< 1252179037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't hurt
< 1252179047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14.1" - starting at 2.17kg/2.34kg (4.8 lb/5.2 lb)
< 1252179054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could bring that down by replacing with an SSD
< 1252179099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're much lighter than HDDs?
< 1252179103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252179114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A double-platter notebook HD is, like, 400g
< 1252179119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single-platter, say 200g
< 1252179124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An SSD is roughly 80g
< 1252179186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How very noticeable, 200g versus 80g :-P
< 1252179224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sure.
< 1252179276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Combine with e.g. removing the optical drive
< 1252179297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which weighs what, another 80g? :-P
< 1252179340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, more like 200g, I'd say
< 1252179361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 2.02kg vs 2.34kg is definitely noticable
< 1252179371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Albeit only slightly, but still
< 1252179373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. :-P
< 1252179386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking about grabbing with one hand and putting on your lap, small differences are quite noticeable, I'd say
< 1252179451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One issue with old notebooks is that they generally don't do wireless draft-n
< 1252179460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have ExpressCard slots too, so that's easily fixable.
< 1252179462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that with my evidently-3 kg R60 just fine; I honestly don't think weight matters that much
< 1252179478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least unless you want 3g wireless too
< 1252179481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5+ kg is probably the annoyance point
< 1252179484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It does, IMO
< 1252179498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, psychologically, not physically
< 1252179520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say dimensions matter more, psychologically
< 1252179557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean the threshold of deciding whether to take it with you, for instance.
< 1252179566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a reason a lot of people buying the 1.36kg MacBook Air (after using, say, a 2.27kg MacBook - same dimensions) say "This is the first notebook I've come across that feels like I can carry it everywhere all day"
< 1252179574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not making it up, I've read two things saying that, at least)
< 1252179588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could claim it's the thinness, I guess :P
< 1252179594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's that they're Mac-people. :-P
< 1252179602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly :P
< 1252179641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm enough of a geek that I'd take just about any notebook anywhere with me, though. :P
< 1252179657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, :P
< 1252179683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P is my most-used emoticon, I think
< 1252179696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because I can't think of anything else that really means "ha ha only serious" or whatever.
< 1252179700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You broke the :-?P chain.
< 1252179711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well.
< 1252179719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think :P tends to be used to mean "If I say this jokingly it seems bad but I don't want to present it as untrue"
< 1252179731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, I guess, meshes with a sort of social-acceptability "ha ha only serious".
< 1252179782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the R-series is quite amusing; for the budget line they're not very, well, budget.
< 1252179790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(belated reaction to "R60")
< 1252179818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were budget? :-P
< 1252179830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still exists, but yes, they're the "cost-cutting" budget line.
< 1252179841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., heavier, thicker, and a few hundred dollars lighter.
< 1252179858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "lighter" was a thinko
< 1252179861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like it that way
< 1252179908 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252179929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reverses entropy; * calamari is now known as squid
< 1252179950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, "hi"
< 1252179953 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird :)
< 1252180573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252181746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re the wlan-finding UI, there was that bluetooth pairing screen in some mobile: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/08/31/samsung-rogues-bluetooth-setup-will-be-second-nature-to-air-tra/
< 1252181782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, on a mobile there's rather less space to do that non-stupidly.
< 1252181839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Bluetooth is so slow it hardly matters.
< 1252181843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "list" doesn't really look very space-efficient to me.
< 1252181852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which
< 1252181882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in that link, with the only-five-characters-shown icons all around.
< 1252181890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1252181909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Linutop 3, sporting a custom Linux OS atop a blistering 1GHz VIA C7 CPU, 1GB of RAM and a tremendously capacious 2GB SSD, is just that sort of machine."
< 1252181921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, uh, faster and has more storage space than my £150 crapbook.
< 1252181924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since the distances don't conform to anything; at least the wlan thing has the signal strenght.
< 1252181928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray?
< 1252181948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, well that's just useless
< 1252181962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fun facct: That "Linutop" costs a whole damn $485)
< 1252181964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fact
< 1252181997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the local PC magazine reviewed Linutop in the newest issue.
< 1252182025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My review: It's crap and I can tell you this despite having not even used it.
< 1252182035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Experiences may differ with a 14" size screen, there is no FlexView offering on that screen size." <-- what is wrong with a 15"?
< 1252182048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it is a perfectly reasonable size
< 1252182057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Quite a lot heavier, and no, no it's not
< 1252182067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everyone has a gigantic lap
< 1252182068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did a comparison of Apple Mac mini, Asus Eee Box, CompuLab Fit-PC2 and Linutop 2.
< 1252182071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, lower battery life
< 1252182073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc, etc, etc
< 1252182084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you cal 15" gigantic. Then what do you call 17"?
< 1252182087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call*
< 1252182100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17" is a stupid lugbook.
< 1252182110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mac mini vs Linutop?
< 1252182123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of like David and Goliath, except Goliath is awesome and David sucks cocks.
< 1252182123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, linutop?
< 1252182124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They're both physically small. :p
< 1252182138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster continues to pioneer context-free IRC clients.
< 1252182142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, the Linutop is smaller.
< 1252182154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linutop 3 isn't.
< 1252182160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was away for quite a bit above
< 1252182162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/4sep09_linuto3.jpg
< 1252182173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster also continues to pioneer IRC clients that insert a blank line every second
< 1252182179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's that big.
< 1252182198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Linutop operating system is stored on an internal flash memory and cannot be altered by virus or mishap."
< 1252182199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mishap.
< 1252182208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I'm too busy (read: can't be arsed) to read much of the scrollback
< 1252182222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mbnet.fi/nettijatkot/2009/08/minikoneet/ (in Finnish) has, in the first picture, their set of reviewables.
< 1252182235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes a true blend of asshole to ask people to scroll up a few times for them
< 1252182249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK GOOGLE'S TOP BAR IS GONE
< 1252182250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAARGH
< 1252182261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't switch to image search in a click any more...
< 1252182274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not gone for me here, at the very least.
< 1252182281 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gone for me :(
< 1252182282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um not gone here
< 1252182285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try refreshing the page
< 1252182288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch to international google, retards
< 1252182297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I am using .com one
< 1252182300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here.
< 1252182305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then geoip.
< 1252182310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess.
< 1252182314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or one of their sample things.
< 1252182317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AB testing and the like.
< 1252182330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck synergy... again
< 1252182343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has any holes.
< 1252182350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=iw#hl=en&q=google
< 1252182351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1252182354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar there for me
< 1252182357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck UK ;P
< 1252182368 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252182377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any holes outside the UK would be far too big, I think.
< 1252182386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, holes?
< 1252182389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah
< 1252182404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway synergy seriously messes up copy and paste
< 1252182409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that it is nice
< 1252182419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Extra bonus jokes: EVIDENTLY HANDS AREN'T THE ONLY HUGE FEATURE OF SWEDISH ANATOMY.)
< 1252182422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*joke
< 1252182433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252182460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah it's true. I guess we can't hide it any more. But we do have huge brains.
< 1252182477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of neurons and such
< 1252182485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that's as much a "but" as an "also".
< 1252182497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gramatically? maybe
< 1252182507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammatically*
< 1252182529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in fact, dropping "but" may be the best way
< 1252182534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not adding also
< 1252182548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean meaningly
< 1252182558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But we do have tiny brains." would work
< 1252182565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not "But we do have huge brains."
< 1252182581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, yeah it's true. I guess we can't hide it any more: We do have huge brains.
< 1252182583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works
< 1252182592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also doesn't make sense.
< 1252182611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure does. It is the other thing (apart from hands) that are huge
< 1252182615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you mentioned yourself
< 1252182629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, true.
< 1252182637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I'd be inclined to say whoosh.
< 1252182658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, whooshing yourself?
< 1252182671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Google top-bar "more ▼" link has an "even more »" option; reminds me of some interface-hall-of-shame GetRight Properties -> "Advanced"-tab -> "More"-button -> "Protocol / Icons / More / Even More" set of tabs.
< 1252182673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for not realising that I continued your joke in an unexpected direction
< 1252182686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have to do a lot of yoga to be able to whoosh yourself.
< 1252182697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sounds awesome
< 1252182731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woosh is this ringh-shaped frisbee; from the Koosh people.
< 1252182732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would seem like there's a much easier method to the same result most of the time.
< 1252182760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ringh?
< 1252182790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would be true in general of yoga I suspect
< 1252182799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I originally wrote "ringh-shabed", and my wetware can only fix one typo per word.
< 1252182810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm going to go ahead here and say whoosh
< 1252182825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric is ringh-shabed http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1252182825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't - make it count as multiple words?
< 1252182865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just spaces count. Sorry, my language output module is pretty limited.
< 1252182894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like a (possibly) advanced version of fungot?
< 1252182894 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shall we get back to the present? he's been known. we reptites will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place...
< 1252182906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1252182906 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1252182909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ct?
< 1252182913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously Chrono Trigger.
< 1252182914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrono Trigger.
< 1252182921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3
< 1252182921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must not have played it if you had to ask ^style.
< 1252182922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "obviously?"
< 1252182925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles for this term
< 1252182936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chrono Trigger" that is
< 1252182940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means a type of trigger.
< 1252182942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a gun, you see.
< 1252182946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes the sound "chrono".
< 1252182953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's a movie about tigers.
< 1252182956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tigers that can talk.
< 1252182956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ...
< 1252182957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought it makes it shoots cronons.
< 1252182962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That also.
< 1252182968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um google seems to indicate it is a snes game?
< 1252182971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a movie
< 1252182972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird.
< 1252182980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a game adaptation; it's old enough.
< 1252182982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it about tigers?
< 1252182992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to Kenya, we've got lions.
< 1252182996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, can they talk?
< 1252183005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ha! A quote from the sequel, Chrono Wossname.
< 1252183010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think.
< 1252183037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252183037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably. The quotation generator just returns the output; no multiple return values in *my* brain.
< 1252183047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for nintendo ds too
< 1252183055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, is there any DS emulator?
< 1252183059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Playstation port, too.
< 1252183065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, there are multiple DS emulators.
< 1252183067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are DS emulators. Many.
< 1252183070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any good game?
< 1252183071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3 again
< 1252183074 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1252183078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about Wii emulators?
< 1252183078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenC2E should be able to run DS *watches ehird kill him*
< 1252183083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon we'll have to gay marry, what with all this <3ing.
< 1252183084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DS bootstrap
< 1252183105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need a Wii emulator if you have a functioning bladder.
< 1252183107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DeSmuME is I guess the sensible open-source one; I have no clue what it's game compatibility is.
< 1252183110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, happy marry xmas?
< 1252183113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dolphin-emu.com/news.php ;; wii emulator
< 1252183116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks
< 1252183121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what?
< 1252183138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, thanks.
< 1252183139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said happy marry
< 1252183148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, for what?
< 1252183149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DeSmuME's probably best feature is that it provides the GDB stub thing; you can attach GDBs for the ARM 7 and ARM 9 into it.
< 1252183149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh.
< 1252183238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tr.froup.com/tr806.gif
< 1252183241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, ^
< 1252183255 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though there's also No$gba (it does GBA and DS both) which they say is good for debugging; but that one is a Windows thing and costs money.
< 1252183264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, err what has that got to do with the meaning I used the word "duck" in
< 1252183267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No$gba is free.
< 1252183271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just put the free download link below.
< 1252183278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tr.froup.com/tr794.gif
< 1252183282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, nothing in particular
< 1252183288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay
< 1252183293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, the free version has less features.
< 1252183306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the free one is the "for gamers" one.
< 1252183323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gamers? More like gaymers.
< 1252183326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "for debugging" one has a $15 shareware home-use version, but it had some sort of silly restriction, can't remember what.
< 1252183332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THEY'RE GAY.
< 1252183354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm glad to hear they are happy.
< 1252183364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that joke got tired in 1960
< 1252183366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth
< 1252183372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes insert obvious joke about "glad" there)
< 1252183382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great gladsby
< 1252183392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ooh that one I didn't think of :D
< 1252183460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsby:_Champion_of_Youth is, incidentally, rather uncomfortable to read.
< 1252183477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ever read the great gatsby?
< 1252183483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+/- spelling)
< 1252183489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, actually.
< 1252183493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say it is rather tedious
< 1252183499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to read it in school a few years ago
< 1252183508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some English course or such
< 1252183509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atlas Shrugged is tediouser!
< 1252183526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, haven't heard of that one
< 1252183528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially that speech, I hear the first part of it lasts 8 minutes when spoken or something
< 1252183533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ayn Rand's crazyfest.
< 1252183552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Summary: http://www.angryflower.com/atlass.gif
< 1252183588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had to read Anthem at school
< 1252183596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sue them for destroying your brain
< 1252183602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This applies equally well to any bad programming course)
< 1252183606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anthem?
< 1252183618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another Rand book.
< 1252183659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'd get a nickel for any bad programming course I've been on, I'd probably have spent them already.
< 1252183681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252183697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't really know how to distinguish good programming courses from bad ones
< 1252183700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a nickel for every time I've accidentally bungee jumped I'd be no better off
< 1252183705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What language?
< 1252183725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, various. Or are you saying that that's the criterion?
< 1252183730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What languages
< 1252183742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if I had a nickel for every time I argued with you I'd have at least $100 by now
< 1252183756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java and C++ so far
< 1252183769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SQL, though that's not really programming
< 1252183780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure we've argued 2000 times
< 1252183784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some Javascript in the Java course *facepalm*
< 1252183786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Almost certainly sucks
< 1252183786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ALICE
< 1252183788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1252183789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks
< 1252183808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host
< 1252183813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah probably more.
< 1252183822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ isn't in the same course with Java+Javascript+ALICE)
< 1252183833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C++ course has a slight chance of not sucking.
< 1252183837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one is brain-melting.
< 1252183851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I survived
< 1252183862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But goo is leaking from your ears.
< 1252183866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's why you ask a lot of stupid questions :P
< 1252183866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And iirc, was the only one to get a good score on the AP
< 1252183913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP? Access Point?
< 1252183921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advanced placement, isn't it?
< 1252183924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that, anyway.
< 1252183925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess your laptop has good antennas then
< 1252183942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they group course grades by wlan access points.
< 1252183949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, HEY! wait with explaining until after I finished my joke
< 1252183989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 minutes until I clean
< 1252183991 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252184009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw I noticed recently at university my thinkpad has a lot better antennas than most other notebooks. Except those with pre-N.
< 1252184037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're generally wrapped all over the plac.e
< 1252184039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*place.
< 1252184055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? There are some parts of some of the houses that have bad coverage
< 1252184063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPad antennas.
< 1252184091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well one of them which couldn't connect had an older non-pre-N thinkpad.
< 1252184105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1252184113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he had one of those 9-cell batteries
< 1252184121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really looks awkward
< 1252184137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Eh, I don't need more range than 1 small building.
< 1252184150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use 3G internet for everywhere else.
< 1252184158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Howso
< 1252184192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well maybe it differs nowdays, but it was sticking out about 4 cm, and not straight out but more like __//
< 1252184193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've come across anything else than Scheme, C, C++, Java, Python, Prolog, MATLAB and some MIPS assembler on university courses. Well, except a really tiny bit of PL/SQL, and Sparc assembler on the compiler course since that was the target arch. It's been so very boring and mainstream.
< 1252184195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean
< 1252184203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where that should have been _/ in fact
< 1252184222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ThinkPad was this?
< 1252184237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it doesn't matter when you have it plonked somewhere does it?
< 1252184284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one marked IBM. Don't remember exact model. Looked similar to mine though, slightly smaller, and had card reader below single PC-card slot on the side (instead of two express card slots on the side and a card reader a bit below the touchpad
< 1252184285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1252184307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :widescreen?
< 1252184342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, think so
< 1252184347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A random, rather-obvious observation: Erroneously spatial interfaces are even more noticeable on notebooks.
< 1252184355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 16:10
< 1252184366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*8:4 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
< 1252184366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not 16:9
< 1252184369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah
< 1252184376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no 16:9 ThinkPads
< 1252184392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure?
< 1252184413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. The only 16:9 notebooks are shitty consumer notebooks, likely with Blu-Ray and other antifeatures.
< 1252184421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they are, without exception, glossy.
< 1252184428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPads are business notebooks.
< 1252184434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all matte.
< 1252184450 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252184460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523.
< 1252184464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1252184475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because one of the R500 models I looked at was 16:9 iirc...
< 1252184484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No.
< 1252184496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh maybe it was a non-R500 then.
< 1252184498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1252184503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523
< 1252184512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, not a ThinkPad.
< 1252184526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also there are thinkpads with blue-ray
< 1252184533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of.
< 1252184535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example that one with two screens
< 1252184539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure.
< 1252184542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be ordered with blue-ray
< 1252184550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing about that contradicts what I said, though.
< 1252184560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's a thinkpad.
< 1252184567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes
< 1252184581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at reading:
< 1252184589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:00] ehird: Absolutely. The only 16:9 notebooks are shitty consumer notebooks, likely with Blu-Ray and other antifeatures.
< 1252184614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it isn't 16:9, but still blu-ray
< 1252184620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue*
< 1252184628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Affirmation of the consequent
< 1252184638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, it is "blu"
< 1252184653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent
< 1252184699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you mean it a 16:10 with blu-ray is ok?
< 1252184723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bad notebooks have BluRay" != "BluRay means it's a bad notebook"
< 1252184727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fallacy; not what I said; kthx.
< 1252184737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right
< 1252184744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tee hee: " A modem. - Make sure you get a so called 'WinModem'. These modems are enhanced to work better with Windows Millennium, and represent very good value for money.")
< 1252184756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD
< 1252184767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw I think my laptop has a modem of some kind
< 1252184782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, haven't seen it in lspci or anywhere else inside linux though
< 1252184784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: where's that quote from?
< 1252184787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.8.5.172749.2140.html
< 1252184798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks
< 1252184803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note because people really mistake this: Adequacy is not serious.
< 1252184804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that some joke site?
< 1252184825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the famous "Is Your Son a Computer Hacker", like 90% of the comments take it seriously.
< 1252184869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean:
< 1252184879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252184906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD, Lunix, Debian and Mandrake are all versions of an illegal hacker operation system, invented by a Soviet computer hacker named Linyos Torovoltos, before the Russians lost the Cold War. It is based on a program called "xenix", which was written by Microsoft for the US government. These programs are used by
< 1252184906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackers to break into other people's computer systems to steal credit card numbers. They may also be used to break into people's stereos to steal their music,
< 1252184907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the "mp3" program. Torovoltos is a notorious hacker, responsible for writing many hacker programs, such as "telnet", which is used by hackers to connect to machines on the internet without using a telephone.
< 1252184907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your son has undergone a sudden change in his style of dress, you may have a hacker on your hands. Hackers tend to dress in bright, day-glo colors.
< 1252184910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may wear baggy pants, bright colored shirts and spiky hair dyed in bright colors to match their clothes. They may take to carrying "glow-sticks" and some wear pacifiers around their necks.
< 1252184913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Popular hacker software includes "Comet Cursor", "Bonzi Buddy" and "Flash".
< 1252184915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are just some choice quotes, so I really can't see how anyone can believe it.
< 1252184922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, I think I fell for it the first time.
< 1252184926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was young!
< 1252184937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you... fell... for it?
< 1252184939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1252184950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like almost everyone in the 10 pages of comments
< 1252184956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very long pages too
< 1252184971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the end I was seething.
< 1252184995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what I'm asking is: joke site or lunatic?
< 1252185001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joke, of course!
< 1252185004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it is hard to tell the difference
< 1252185006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I thought it was a lunatic years ago.
< 1252185015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't ever think it was true, of course)
< 1252185030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean... first time I saw that conservopedia (spelling?) I thought it was a joke site...
< 1252185032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, troll, rather.
< 1252185039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Half of the editors probably are
< 1252185042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was making fun of extreme conservatives
< 1252185045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the other half sees it and agrees with it
< 1252185051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um, extreme?
< 1252185058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty mainstream Republican party stuff in the US.
< 1252185068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that is *very* fucking scary
< 1252185075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, In the eyes of an European yes
< 1252185089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in the UK, which is also quite right-wing, it's insane
< 1252185105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and I think UK is pretty insane
< 1252185108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... is there anywhere that's more right-wing on average than the US
< 1252185115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: North Korea
< 1252185127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that extreme right or extreme left, though?
< 1252185148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, possibly it went past the point where you can see any difference
< 1252185151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know economically, but it's pretty much pure fascism and oppression
< 1252185155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it wraps around
< 1252185160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is right-wing
< 1252185165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't Sovjet that too?
< 1252185171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252185171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: downtreading most of the populace is left-wing behaviour, though
< 1252185172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is
< 1252185177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soviet in English right?
< 1252185180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True
< 1252185181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1252185184 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252185186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252185188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's add another direction: fuckedupwards.
< 1252185206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From this we can conclude that North Korea and the Soviet Union were socially fuckedupwards on the left-right scale.
< 1252185213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an extreme right-wing North Korea wouldn't train up massive armies; it would instead say everyone had to join the army or they'd get no pay
< 1252185217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think I saw some political two-axis chart thingy some time ago
< 1252185223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an attached web quiz
< 1252185226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the political compass
< 1252185228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's godo
< 1252185229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good
< 1252185231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes
< 1252185233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm further left than Gandi :P
< 1252185238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Gandhi
< 1252185245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, further down in that chart too?
< 1252185252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was that
< 1252185257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot
< 1252185258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was further left socially, dunno about economically
< 1252185269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..I think a MIDI of this song sounds much different than the actual song
< 1252185281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not socialist or communist economically, I'm a filthy regulated capitalist
< 1252185282 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any sort of fundamentialists => trouble.
< 1252185287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I ended up further left for both parameters
< 1252185307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You are a true thinker of this age for that stunning insight :P
< 1252185311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Like all midis
< 1252185314 0 :xfire35!n=xfire35@cpc2-pete3-0-0-cust800.pete.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252185322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT
< 1252185323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new person
< 1252185324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run!
< 1252185327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, pretty much given due to there being no vocals in MIDI. Well except possibly GM "Voice synth: Ah" or something like that
< 1252185331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the vocals in the actual song are masking the part of the melody that I like
< 1252185333 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1252185350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35, hi
< 1252185351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the MIDI on-hand though :(
< 1252185369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what about that esolang using MIDI
< 1252185373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there was several
< 1252185377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the details
< 1252185391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't xfire the name of a chat thing for games?
< 1252185418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the name of a rather good gameshow here in the UK a few years ago, too
< 1252185426 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, I like it though
< 1252185451 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't just right-wing fundamentialists that are scary. Just e.g. watch some creationist videos... At worst they maintain that the Earth doesn't rotate and that Earth is the center of the universe... Scary.
< 1252185458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, naturally.
< 1252185465 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 6000 yrs old
< 1252185482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The flat earth society, too
< 1252185497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that implies geocentrism and non-rotational...ism.
< 1252185516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most people in the flat earth society are just playing devil's advocate, to get people to think for themselves
< 1252185518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: Anyway, hi, this is about programming languages not esotericism.
< 1252185523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Most on the forums, yes.
< 1252185528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The society itself is dead.
< 1252185536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are the believers on the forum; they have their own subforum.
< 1252185540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is downright scary.
< 1252185561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35, are you here for esoteric programming languages or the other type? (If the latter you ended up in the wrong place)
< 1252185567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pre-empted you.
< 1252185573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh right you did
< 1252185589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't even know what the other type is
< 1252185594 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm here about the programming languages. I've made one on the wiki
< 1252185601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, which one?
< 1252185602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esotericism
< 1252185608 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auo
< 1252185618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252185630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auo is better than most first languages by far
< 1252185638 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks :)
< 1252185661 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the language of Sgeo, "asldf" means "Hello". There. Esoterica
< 1252185669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed.
< 1252185677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks quite ok
< 1252185704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Funnily enough, that's as bad an esolang as it is esoterica
< 1252185787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't all esoteric languages a sort of esoteric? Only those who've learned from somewhere know them
< 1252185803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, all programming languages, come to think of it
< 1252185803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that definition everything is esoteric
< 1252185848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Math might not be.
< 1252185868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh huh? People know maths without learning it?
< 1252185904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mathematical concepts might be independently derived. Not the symbols, I guess. That's why I said "might not be"
< 1252185917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything can be independently derived
< 1252185937 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some languages don't have numbers or the concept of counting within them.
< 1252186024 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the two esoteric langs I have come up with (I should describe them), neither has any concept of numbers nor arithmetic.
< 1252186071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he means natural langs
< 1252186082 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I did.
< 1252186090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, langs based on ln()?
< 1252186115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost time to clean
< 1252186121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go clean now
< 1252186133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that sounds like an interesting esolang idea. Something based on logarithms
< 1252186145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Sgeo notified us for those crucial settings
< 1252186147 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't some natural languages have "one, two, many" or something like that?
< 1252186148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*seconds
< 1252186150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now to come up with something interesting for those ideas)
< 1252186177 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is Polynesian tribes or something.
< 1252186230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make a wifi router that gets its internet connection from a wifi-connected computer.
< 1252186243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can e.g. share mobile internet at a meetup of some sort without plugging in your notebook.
< 1252186244 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, some classification had "class 0 natural numbers" go up to 6...
< 1252186264 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that an Access point?
< 1252186285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might exist but I'm not so sure about the wifi-sourced connection bit; don't they use ethernet generally?
< 1252186289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does, not might
< 1252186300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc wireless routers that get their connection from ethernet exist
< 1252186324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why use an AP at all
< 1252186332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the alternative?
< 1252186334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the computer can act as one can't it?
< 1252186342 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIFI ad-hoc mode?
< 1252186347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Does that work?
< 1252186352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: So that's what that's for?
< 1252186358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, cool, never mind then.
< 1252186367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well that and I'm pretty sure I heard about someone using a mac-mini (running freebsd) as a regular AP
< 1252186373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you need, like, software or something?
< 1252186381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To routerise.
< 1252186395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there must be something for it.
< 1252186398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes. But that is just an command away
< 1252186460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean it is trivial to use the NAT module in iptables to set up a bridge
< 1252186463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or NAT
< 1252186467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, then.
< 1252186470 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the computer that acts as gateway... But other computers have to be configured to use it as gateway.
< 1252186499 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHCP might work...
< 1252186500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure how trivial it is to set up the computer's wlan card as an AP though, but I'm pretty sure it is possible
< 1252186506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not as ad-hoc mode)
< 1252186521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Can't they just connect to it as a wifi network?
< 1252186523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well yes dhcp is trivial to get working too
< 1252186533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure the answer is "yes"
< 1252186548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not for ad-hoc mode obviously
< 1252186565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do it with ad-hoc mode?
< 1252186578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unsure. But ad-hoc mode is more like a p2p mode
< 1252186641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... iwconfig wlan0 mode (Managed|Ad-Hoc|Master|Repeater|Secondary|Monitor|Auto)
< 1252186647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is how you set the mode
< 1252186656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on linux that is)
< 1252186677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe Master is the mode to use for acting as an AP
< 1252186685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Managed is the normal mode
< 1252186689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you connect to an AP
< 1252186700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An issue with that wifi-sourced AP, anyway, is that it'd need batteries and such.
< 1252186703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could then setup NAT as well as a DHCP server
< 1252186711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes obviously.
< 1252186723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was connected to a power plug
< 1252186725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be deathly if they ran down before your computer.
< 1252186726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and "Master" doesn't work everywhere; but certainly for many chipsets.
< 1252186741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? Didn't know that
< 1252186765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the zd1201 USB stick I have, for example, you need a special firmware file in order to get it to AP mode.
< 1252186781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I haven't tried anything but managed mode
< 1252186787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,*
< 1252186844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw does anyone know if firewire 400 and firewire 800 devices can interoperate?
< 1252186854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case I was thinking about ethernet over firewire
< 1252186869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did OS X's "Internet sharing" from my 3G modem to WLAN at the department student seminar thing which was out there in the wilderness; I'm not sure whether that makes the computer look like an AP or just publishes an ad-hoc wlan network, since obviously I couldn't see it myself. Other people had no trouble connecting, though.
< 1252186925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you don't have built in wlan?
< 1252186944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, yes, of course, but there was no wlan available out there.
< 1252186952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why the usb stick then?
< 1252186959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252186961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3G modem.
< 1252186961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had to use the built-in wlan to share the interwebs I got from the 3G stick to other people.
< 1252186965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobile internet.
< 1252186970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " For the zd1201 USB stick I have, for example, you need a special firmware file in order to get it to AP mode."
< 1252186975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that.
< 1252186977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounded like it was a wlan thingy
< 1252186980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's from time before the iBook.
< 1252186983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok
< 1252186994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That was basically my hypothetical usecase, btw.
< 1252187007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this iBook is one of the G4 ones and not a silly clamshell right?
< 1252187007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway yes of course it is possible.
< 1252187008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, :(
< 1252187009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sux :P
< 1252187026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's the iBook G4.
< 1252187032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaaaaaaame
< 1252187046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoulda got one of those scorching 12" PowerBooks :P
< 1252187050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have a clamshell G3 one. Which would by that logic be even cooler
< 1252187059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no clamshell G4s
< 1252187071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1252187073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "clamshell" model certainly looks more... professional, sure.
< 1252187077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Clamshell_iBook_G3.jpg → http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Ibook12.jpg → http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/IBook_G4.jpg
< 1252187093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note how ugly that second one's keyboard is!)
< 1252187111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, all those strange squiggles in place of letters."
< 1252187118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that :P
< 1252187131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks crappy to type on.
< 1252187190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's true. The G4 keyboard is not painful, though my space bar has a crack in the middle.
< 1252187256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By schorching I meant literally; those 12" PowerBook G4s — http://www.wap.org/journal/jan03/powerbookg500.jpg – were known to be unkind to thighs.
< 1252187287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pain is the price you pay for a spiffy laptop.
< 1252187298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, I think "notebook".
< 1252187318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, you know, laps.
< 1252187345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just be sure to wear something non-flammable.
< 1252187365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gaim-Thinklight is a plugin for the multiprotocol messenger Gaim that makes the ThinkLight flash on incoming instant messages"
< 1252187367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute
< 1252187378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it's by that german haskell... dude.
< 1252187421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, archive.org respects robots.txt even for vanished sites
< 1252187447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is (was?) a kernel config option in the ppc-arch Linux kernel that made the "I'm sleeping" led in the iBook work as a HD led, flickering on disk activity. I think nowadays the led's been included in the sysfs-or-whatever-controllable things.
< 1252187461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ThinkLight illuminates the whole keyboard, though.
< 1252187466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis rather more noticable.
< 1252187473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*noticeable
< 1252187481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the ThinkLight usually used for?
< 1252187481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's like that.
< 1252187502 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another Archlinux user?
< 1252187521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who?
< 1252187532 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie
< 1252187542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no. What made you think so?
< 1252187552 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ppc-arch Linux kernel"
< 1252187561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that was just "ppc-architecture".
< 1252187564 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252187573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think there are Arch users on channel, I've seen it talked about.
< 1252187584 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is awesome :D
< 1252187606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more of a Debianist-by-tradition-if-not-for-other-reasons myself.
< 1252187610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this Logitech Illuminated backlight is somehow computer-controllable too. There's a special physical button to switch between "off" and the three intensity levels, it might be that they haven't bothered to build in any support for communicating back to the keyboard.
< 1252187638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:51] Sgeo: What is the ThinkLight usually used for?
< 1252187641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illuminating the whole keyboard.
< 1252187649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, when it's controllled
< 1252187651 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :controlled
< 1252187657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh?
< 1252187668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A notification, if you mean the gaim plugin.
< 1252187680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., "Hey, you got IMed, look at your taskbar".
< 1252187686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other programs use the ThinkLight like that?
< 1252187691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what I meant
< 1252187714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Related: http://tinyurl.com/mnos6w
< 1252187800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, Kopete, and Evolution *spit*
< 1252187818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Creationism instead.
< 1252187823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "Creation" I guess.
< 1252187844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The "clamshell" model certainly looks more... professional, sure. <-- professional?
< 1252187850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, lolwut?
< 1252187852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is the opposite
< 1252187856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a kid's fake laptop
< 1252187858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, those spelling tutor things
< 1252187872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can Evolution do that Thunderbird+extensions can't do?
< 1252187875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, this "lsusb -v" output for this keyboard is rather strange: there's 2 USB interfaces on the thing; first one is a HID-class Keyboard-protocol one (which makes sense) but the second one speaks the HID "Mouse" protocol. Both only do interrupt-transfers from the keyboard to computer, though.
< 1252187876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ooh that sounds familiar
< 1252187885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think I saw one once
< 1252187886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nothing.
< 1252187892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: New species!
< 1252187897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can Linux do that Windows can't do, apart from not suck?
< 1252187897 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do most people use linux/BSD distros on their computers here?
< 1252187900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, besides be all GNOME-exclusive-y)
< 1252187905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey don't steal my joke
< 1252187916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, sync to pda without too much pain possibly
< 1252187921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, and calendar
< 1252187923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: I use OS X, but on my new notebook will probably dual-boot Windows and Ubuntu or something.
< 1252187936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, run the games that I want to play, without pain in either setting up WINE or setting up a VM
< 1252187946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Thunderbird has a caldendar extension
< 1252187959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Using your same method of talking, Thunderbird can't be called Evolution
< 1252187960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do most people use linux/BSD distros on their computers here? <-- I certainly do
< 1252187967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you not comprehend that other people have different preferences?
< 1252187969 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in linux, you could run it with a VM (XP) with less RAM required than Vista
< 1252187969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I bet it is pretty common, not everyone though
< 1252188008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: But not much less than 7
< 1252188016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, VMs still don't work very well for 3D games.
< 1252188037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What other programs use the ThinkLight like that? <-- anything that can be made to poke a file in /proc iirc
< 1252188038 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can boot with less that 70mb RAM being used, that's into Openbox
< 1252188044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it /sys?
< 1252188057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, I prefer to use mine for what they are actually intended for
< 1252188060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably in /sys, that's more modern.
< 1252188066 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stick XP ontop, ~200mb, can 7 do it <300mb?
< 1252188072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think you can do it both ways
< 1252188093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who I know use Linux in here: ais523, AnMaster, BeholdMyGlory, bsmntbombdood_, clog (:P), comex_, Deewiant, EgoBot (:P), fizzie, fungot, GregorR, HackEgo (:P), pikhq.
< 1252188094 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! we must use? take off. get off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away!
< 1252188101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fungot (:P)
< 1252188101 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but, we are far outnumbered! are you leaving! that sword alone can't stop, crono!
< 1252188119 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252188133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sysfs-poking says the "keyboard" interface is event0, and the "mouse" in the keyboard is event1. What.
< 1252188197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, new people here → obligatory blurb: fungot's sources -- and don't start with the "sword alone can't stop" again -- are at http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1252188197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses Linux sometimes
< 1252188197 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you! take! we find! see ya around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca
< 1252188235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Though I think there are Arch users on channel, I've seen it talked about. <-- me for example, I use Gentoo, Arch and Ubuntu.
< 1252188251 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Arch :D
< 1252188265 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to love Pacman
< 1252188271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! ...
< 1252188274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean, when it's controllled <-- it is to light up your keyboard. When it is dark. Fn+PgUp toggles it on/off.
< 1252188274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, brb.
< 1252188321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey, new people here → obligatory blurb: fungot's sources -- and don't start with the "sword alone can't stop" again -- are at http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 <-- wait I missed that. What is the sword alone thingy?
< 1252188321 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a machine that looks like you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have the masamune!
< 1252188334 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252188336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's what it often says in this ct style.
< 1252188346 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often?
< 1252188355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes, but repeatedly.
< 1252188365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it likes ! though
< 1252188371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it do that, anyway?
< 1252188421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I really should try that game. What with everything now I don't dare try to get it though. If you see what I mean.
< 1252188445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don'y grok this keyboard. All normal key comes via the event0 device; but few of the silly media-keys ("home", "email", "search", uh... "a guy", "calculator", "eject", "music", "rewind", "play/pause", "fast forward") but not all (for example "thing-with-many-windows" and "cog-in-front-of-screen") come through event1.
< 1252188457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The things in quotes are my interpretations of the icons here.)
< 1252188474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "a guy"?
< 1252188487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thing with many windows"?
< 1252188494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cog in front of screen"?
< 1252188497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, PIC!
< 1252188501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously
< 1252188521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just this icon of a person in there, how am I supposed to know what it means? I guess it could look a little like something I've seen in a MSN-messenger-related context.
< 1252188562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, and typically all other keys except those three generate some keysyms according to xev.
< 1252188586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was a picture of this already available, I'll try to find it. That camera battery is somewhere I'm not sure where.
< 1252188623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.everythingusb.com/images/list/logitech-illuminated-keyboard-full.jpg -- you can sort-of see them, though they're pretty small. I'm talking about the orange stuff on top of the function keys.
< 1252188662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illuminated?
< 1252188669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, this sounds like a conspiracy!
< 1252188674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is there no insert button?
< 1252188678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, here's a big picture: http://www.ricdes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/21.jpg
< 1252188689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there is
< 1252188690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're going to have to ask logitech; but it's there above del, actually.
< 1252188692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it up there
< 1252188696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is there no scroll lock button
< 1252188718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Scroll-lock's a Fn-style function on pause/break. And really, I have no clue what's up with the layout.
< 1252188731 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1252188735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just felt nice to write with, and they hadn't done *completely* horrible things to it.
< 1252188754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bottom row (with space bar) is raised a bit too much though.
< 1252188760 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The caps lock button seems unnotched, which is nice
< 1252188784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it doesn't look like full depth?
< 1252188792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has those mostly-in-laptops scissor-style keyswitches, which I sort-of like.
< 1252188795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that I mean traditional one
< 1252188802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a bit flat.
< 1252188804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't stand then on full sized ones
< 1252188808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're alright; better than rubber dome, at least
< 1252188818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's somehow ok on laptops though
< 1252188822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, rubber dome?
< 1252188845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also how can you survive without "insert"?
< 1252188848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What almost every non-laptop keyboard these days comes with.
< 1252188872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly this keyboard I have here is showing slight jwz tendencies on ctrl and shift. Far from as bad yet
< 1252188885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just press delete accidentally instead. (Okay, not *every* time, and there *is* insert, it's just in the wrong place.)
< 1252188886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how would that work?
< 1252188889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As we just discussed, insert is there, just dislocated.
< 1252188915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would what work?
< 1252188922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Dome-switch_keyboard ?
< 1252188925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah see it now
< 1252189017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a weird sort of cross between the traditional and the modern turned-90-degrees strangeness, like the one seen in http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/23893_01.jpg
< 1252189057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's the modern one. I'm not sure, I've just been seeing "2x3-sized-block instead of 3x2-sized block" keyboards in the recent years.
< 1252189058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, shudder that turned looks horrible
< 1252189073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fashion seems to have passed a bit now.
< 1252189103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm I think mine is rubber dome, yet it is quite nice to type on, compared to many other rubber dome ones.
< 1252189106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some sort of "dump /dev/input/eventN format events in a human-readable form" app, but I can never remember the name.
< 1252189143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are differences. But just about all rubber-dome switches suck compared to just about all mechanical switches.
< 1252189155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I never liked the clicky sound
< 1252189161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the feeling was nice
< 1252189169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are non-clicky mechanical switches as well.
< 1252189184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds nice
< 1252189338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/09/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx has a Flash video in which a person demonstrates the sounds of various switches
< 1252189372 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No rubber dome for comparison, though, IIRC.
< 1252189384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it was called evdump. But dumping the events didn't help me much; it's like they've just arbitrarily decided to send a few of the USB key events through another endpoint, and one which says it speaks the "Mouse" HID protocol, yet still send key events. Or something.
< 1252189458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh. Got those keys working though?
< 1252189467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess you wouldn't use them much
< 1252189526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all but one fn key combo works on my thinkpad. And that is Fn-PrtSc which is sysrq. Can't get magic sysrq to work
< 1252189543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evdump says the thing-with-a-guy sends KEY_MESSENGER, but the two others send nothing recognizable.
< 1252189559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a KEY_MESSEGNER defined?
< 1252189603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252189614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1252189618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a markovbot in another channel: "Hold a decentlength intelligent conversation using six words or parentheses without being a lazy and don't pay the people entertained."
< 1252189624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what sort of standard is it in?
< 1252189637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define KEY_MESSENGER 0x1ae /* AL Instant Messaging */
< 1252189642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously no sort of standard.
< 1252189659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, likely that other keyboards would define 0x1ae to be something else then?
< 1252189691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible that it's in the HID standards, actually.
< 1252189698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252189706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to check now.
< 1252189708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is there a C compiler key?
< 1252189716 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252189765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I watch the MST3k episode for Future War?
< 1252189794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that; just "launching" a C compiler is probably not that useful.
< 1252189809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a KEY_DATABASE, though.
< 1252189831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh
< 1252189841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, KEY_VI and KEY_EMACS?
< 1252189868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway these are the linux kernel keysyms, from the input layer; it's the driver's problem to translate whatever physical the keyboard sends into KEY_MESSENGER properly. I guess I could check which bit of code does that.
< 1252189959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, yes; /dev/input/by-id shows the first one as "usb-Logitech_Logitech_Illuminated_Keyboard-event-kbd" and the second one as "usb-Logitech_Logitech_Illuminated_Keyboard-event-mouse".
< 1252189965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one rather strange mouse, I think.
< 1252190016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252190097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: give me some markovness
< 1252190097 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see? i like marle better than " princess,' the chosen time has come! he's strong and he's gonna thrash those monsters! yea! is it?
< 1252190101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "hid-lg" driver doing -- in lg_wireless_mapping -- case 0x1014: lg_map_key_clear(KEY_MESSENGER); My keyboard could possibly be handled by that, even though it's not wireless.
< 1252190110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1252190110 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1252190115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct
< 1252190116 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
< 1252190120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrono Trigger seems like the best corpus yet
< 1252190138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best in which sense?
< 1252190142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's a matter of taste; I don't think AnMaster liked it much, or ehird either.
< 1252190190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm fine with it
< 1252190192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the messenger key might even be in the standards; from hid-input.c: "case HID_UP_CONSUMER: /* USB HUT v1.1, pages 56-62 */ -- case 0x1bc: map_key_clear(KEY_MESSENGER); break;"
< 1252190194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, it seems to be relatively verbose
< 1252190204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't get the reference due to never having played the game
< 1252190213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the messenger key?
< 1252190223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's also the only one done with the variable-length n-gram toolkit, though with probably suboptimal parameters.
< 1252190243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might explain something.
< 1252190245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's this icon of a... well, a guy, in one of the "media keys" of my keyboard. We were wondering what it does.
< 1252190266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the button for opening MSN Messenger
< 1252190274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of Microsoft's latest attempts to do yet more subtle lock-in
< 1252190290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I hate Messenger so much...
< 1252190317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logo is not actually exactly the MSN/Live Messenger buddy-icon guy.
< 1252190329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think I've seen this particular one somewhere.
< 1252190385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe I've seen it on my keyboard. Eh.
< 1252190396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it on someone else's keyboard
< 1252190407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, keyboards are so complicated nowadays, it doesn't really seem to help
< 1252190421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all the random extra buttons are so far away that just chording with another modifier key is faster to type
< 1252190443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even shift-F11 is faster than pressing the shortcut-menu key, on this relatively simple laptop keyboard
< 1252190446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't have to move my hand
< 1252190487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shortcut menu?
< 1252190489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, it is in the USB standard.
< 1252190492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is shift-F11?
< 1252190510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift-f11 seems to insert something cryptic in my terminal when I try it
< 1252190510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on Windows, they're the keyboard equivalent of right-clicking on whatever's keyboard-focused
< 1252190521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh you mean my compose key ;P
< 1252190523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HID usage tables, "consumer page", 1BC -- "AL [Application Launch] Instant Messaging".
< 1252190550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's possibly quite a good key to use as a compose key
< 1252190556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I have a compose key at all, it's C-x 8
< 1252190556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I sucessfully managed to talk PPP with my phone, didn't manage to connect using it though
< 1252190570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet on it works though
< 1252190578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not internet with computer using it
< 1252190602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are rather strange keys in here; "AL" launch keys for: "Digital Wallet", "Online Community", "Market Monitor/Finance Browser", "Research/Search Browser", "Customized Corporate News Browser".
< 1252190603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, caps lock as additional ctrl btw
< 1252190660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for some reason enabling blue tooth makes the computer "hiss". Very odd. High pitched noise (think CRT)
< 1252190676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar issue that I had with some usb devices (sometimes)
< 1252190685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bluetooth shows up in lsusb hm
< 1252190691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange
< 1252190828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaactually hey, it might be that the keys that come through the other event device because the keysyms are from another "usage class" (consumer device, vs. keyboard). Still doesn't explain why it pretends to be a mouse, though.
< 1252190852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My old mouse pretended to be a keyboard, IIRC.
< 1252190978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :D
< 1252191236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:10] fizzie: http://www.everythingusb.com/images/list/logitech-illuminated-keyboard-full.jpg -- you can sort-of see them, though they're pretty small. I'm talking about the orange stuff on top of the function keys.
< 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no dudes, really ugly font, and ugh, I hate that layout of the del/home/end bit (have it on a keyboard here)
< 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:13] fizzie: It has those mostly-in-laptops scissor-style keyswitches, which I sort-of like.
< 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scissor-switches are godly.
< 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:19] Deewiant: There are non-clicky mechanical switches as well.
< 1252191239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still bottom out a hard surface, so it's clickier than rubber dome. Also, tactile switches are the devil; they're harder to type on, in my experience. But you can get non-clicky non-tactile mechanical switches too.
< 1252191242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:26] ais523: from a markovbot in another channel: "Hold a decentlength intelligent conversation using six words or parentheses without being a lazy and don't pay the people entertained."
< 1252191245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first part is probably a direct quote.
< 1252191247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flood over!
< 1252191257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, probably
< 1252191265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as "decentlength" isn't a correctly spelt word
< 1252191279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was an interesting concept, though
< 1252191282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably finished "lazy ass/bastard" or something.
< 1252191312 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252191404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can buy a Model M-style keyboard to replace a laptop keyboard with :)
< 1252191410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A MEETING FAR, FAR AWAT
< 1252191412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AWAY
< 1252191420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you wouldn't replace the keyboard, you'd just use an external one
< 1252191446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we are going to leverage the synergistic opperCLACK CLACK CLACKof the business poteCLACK CLACK CLACK and we SHUT THE FUCK UP, JOHN!
< 1252191452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That isn't portable.
< 1252191473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always befuddles me when people buy a notebook and proceed to bog it down with a ton of stationary accessories.
< 1252191518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm somewhere in between; I can use my laptop either by itself or with accessories
< 1252191520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There was a bigger picture later; the "guy" is in F4.
< 1252191528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need an external mouse if I want to do mouse stuff at all, for instance
< 1252191533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, isn't one word missing from this fungot style?
< 1252191540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but overnight I'll just balance it on top of the duvet, and use it with nothing but the power cable
< 1252191540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the MSN guy, at least.
< 1252191547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hello?
< 1252191547 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca
< 1252191547 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
< 1252191552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it might just be some Logitech guy.
< 1252191554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1252191555 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1252191559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style c64
< 1252191559 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material)
< 1252191562 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1252191565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hi
< 1252191565 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the shape data in the corresponding ram at 57344-65535 ( e000-ffff). to do with the formula hibyte=int(ad/ 156) and an overflow error will occur. the opening of an and operation with the problem of mistaking the keyboard
< 1252191567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, wow that Fn key is huge and replaces the windows/alt keys.
< 1252191570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they hate ergonomics.
< 1252191571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc
< 1252191572 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
< 1252191573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hi
< 1252191574 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not in the taskbar or alt-tab
< 1252191575 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252191580 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252191583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well meh now I hit it's limit
< 1252191590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I plan to use my notebook with nothing plugged in or associated (wirelessly), even the power cable (unless at a desk).
< 1252191591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its
< 1252191595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the fn thing is another drawback in this. I don't really use it.
< 1252191608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, whatever that word for "only happened once" was
< 1252191611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct
< 1252191611 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
< 1252191620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes my standards for the notebook a lot more stringent, which is good because I don't want to be stuck using something inferior outsid.
< 1252191623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*outside
< 1252191647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I also have a requirement to get a laptop, not a notebook, so I should probably say that.
< 1252191650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huhwat, what word?
< 1252191658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord
< 1252191660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1252191664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes that one
< 1252191666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what he means
< 1252191667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that.
< 1252191668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot it XD
< 1252191684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "only happened once" like *that*. Right.
< 1252191687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit slow.
< 1252191694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom only "happened" once.
< 1252191698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She isn't very good in bed.
< 1252191703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway why isn't it saying fnord at all now?
< 1252191722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't do the replace-rare-token-with-UNK with all models.
< 1252191733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unk unk unk
< 1252191746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly for ones like the Chrono Trigger script where there's so little of data.
< 1252191749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there aren't any notebooks that come with cooling pads attached
< 1252191759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc
< 1252191759 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
< 1252191765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Say something fnordy, please.
< 1252191766 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's a piece of source code anywhere there's whitespace. i think
< 1252191772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252191784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't fnordy. But it should still be saying it occasionally.
< 1252191790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: 'ardly hever 'appens
< 1252191791 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i am listening to johnny cash fnord prison blues. -w and use strict; mitigate that somewhat, but it
< 1252191801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You're better at this.
< 1252191816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Perl switches helps mitigate the effects of Johnny Cash's album Fnord Prison Blues.
< 1252191817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course
< 1252191832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, song.
< 1252191852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://xkcd.com/628/ may be relevant here
< 1252191867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can reference xkcd. I am culturally relevant ETC
< 1252191883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.com/2009/08/comic-628-i-predict-this-comic-sucks-i.html :P
< 1252191901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you cannot, you can only blather cynically
< 1252191979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly 628 was quite good.
< 1252192283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc :D
< 1252192297 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252192311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, read it hours ago
< 1252192320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and yeah that annotation was great
< 1252192323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say that as if it _matters_
< 1252192331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't read it yeat
< 1252192334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, of course it does
< 1252192334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yet
< 1252192360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean the deconstruction of the humour in the comment makes ryan north seem normal
< 1252192368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/comment/annotation/
< 1252192378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't referring to your second line. how fast do you think i type?
< 1252192394 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252192399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you asked for it, if you haven't read it before mentioning it... it is your own fault)
< 1252192411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1252192429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I never mention it before I read it myself
< 1252192443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if I mention it first I don't provide any spoilers until I'm sure you read it too
< 1252192471 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252192472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since you mentioned it first this time... of course that means I'm free to provide spoilers :P
< 1252192482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3890449002_949d56b7c7_o.jpg is #1 on reddit. Not like everyone saw this in 2007 when Leopard came out or anything...
< 1252192511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comments are predictably "gee this is horrible mindbending advertising" followed up by "LOL YEAH MAC USERS ARE DUMB".
< 1252192535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I like how the blue screened monitor is shiny.)
< 1252192536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3890449002_949d56b7c7_o.jpg is #1 on reddit. Not like everyone saw this in 2007 when Leopard came out or anything... <--- is the icon for pc server actually like that on macs?
< 1252192536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NANANANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU
< 1252192540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes
< 1252192546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D
< 1252192566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and that is a CRT too right?
< 1252192570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1252192579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with non flat surface
< 1252192580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252192597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen a flat CRT other than the old TV in my life.
< 1252192603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a low-end curmudgeon!
< 1252192608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a whippersnapper. WHO KNOWS
< 1252192611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I seen both flat and curved CRTs
< 1252192630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see one of those super-awesome high end flat CRTs just so I can laugh at it because it's still blurry and whiny.
< 1252192643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, whiny yes, but not blurry
< 1252192651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my experience at least
< 1252192658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and less whiny than low end ones
< 1252192660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every CRT I've seen has been extraordinarily blurry; is there really _that_ much variance?
< 1252192668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think it's inherent, knowing how CRTs work.
< 1252192672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you never seen high end ones then
< 1252192675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not exactly LCD plotted pixels...
< 1252192680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1252192718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Health concerns
< 1252192718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Related terms:
< 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electronic waste
< 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different from Template:See, this template takes a mutiple parameters of any length.
< 1252192719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is true, but I'm talking about good ones at pre-press or similar. Seen those since I know someone working on a newspaper.
< 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use commas and joining words like "and" or "or" as separators.
< 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember to wikilink the target pages; the template does not do it automatically.
< 1252192721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Wikipedia
< 1252192725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Followed up by:
< 1252192726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also
< 1252192727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{Details}}
< 1252192729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{main}}
< 1252192731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{See also}}
< 1252192733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{For}}
< 1252192735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section template samples
< 1252192737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Yes" as in "indeed, I haven't".
< 1252192750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um
< 1252192757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, IPS gets such good colour reproduction nowadays that anyone buying a new CRT in such a field is just stupid.
< 1252192759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "that is true" as in " They're not exactly LCD plotted pixels..."
< 1252192761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252192764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1252192815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also the colours were awesome. And calibrated with high end hang on thingy. Of course this was a few years ago. As in "when apple still made high end pre-press CRTs"
< 1252192829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey yeah, Apple did used to make CRTs.
< 1252192849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, old imacs had CRTs
< 1252192853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather good ones IME
< 1252192861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1252192863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I used first and second model imacs too
< 1252192871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iMac CRTs are blurry.
< 1252192878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not as bad as most PC ones
< 1252192886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one (I broke its optical drive somehow after wiping the OS so it won't boot)
< 1252192888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the good apple ones were MUCH better
< 1252192902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple seem to be rather a fan of high-quality displays; Apple's 24" glossy Cinema Display, aimed squarely at the secondary notebook display crowd, is IPS...
< 1252192925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1252192931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— and therefore everyone goes "OMG APPLE MARKUP" because it costs $899, having now idea what the words IPS or TN mean.
< 1252192942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no
< 1252192956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't everyone using IPS?
< 1252192958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: TN = twisted-nematic?
< 1252192962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's also LED backlit, making it part of a very rare breed: LED-backlit IPS.
< 1252192964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes
< 1252192965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPS = ?
< 1252192973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPS = Best LCD technology EVAR
< 1252192976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :International Postal Service!
< 1252192980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something)
< 1252192983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huge gamut, really wide viewing angles (basically NO colour distortion)
< 1252192987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1252192992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that's a damned good monitor.
< 1252192993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm one of those people who knows enough electronics to know about twisted-nematics, but not enough ehirdness to know whether it's meant to be good or bad
< 1252192995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the downside now again?
< 1252192999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :price? power usage?
< 1252193002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot
< 1252193005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably price
< 1252193017 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252193023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downsides: It's very thick, so you'll only find it on separate units. It's heavy, so ditto. And the displays cost around $1,000.
< 1252193031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah
< 1252193042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so not very "flat" screen then?
< 1252193049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's flat, just a bit thick.
< 1252193050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which makes sense -- Apple has always been obsessive about their display quality)
< 1252193059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said "very" thick
< 1252193061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's 24" is 19cm deep and probably the thinnest.
< 1252193074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some are as thick as modern iMacs.
< 1252193077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 19 cm? wow
< 1252193081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :picture
< 1252193090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.apple.com/displays/
< 1252193091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously want to see this
< 1252193098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TN has terrible colour reproduction, and the colours distort very quickly if you tilt them a bit
< 1252193107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're thin and cheap, so they're on almost all notebooks and desktops
< 1252193114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, it was invented for black-and-white, so I'm not at all surprised
< 1252193129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you're looking at right now is almost certainly TN.
< 1252193132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1252193135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the iMac displays are IPS.
< 1252193141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine certainly has all the properties of it.
< 1252193144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's pretty good for looking at images with borked alphas
< 1252193153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gammas
< 1252193153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newer models are glossy, mine isn't.
< 1252193159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is pretty much my favourite display ever.
< 1252193167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can change the gamma of the screen through a massively large range just by tilting it
< 1252193171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252193173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The side profile certainly looks like most of the 19cm is still the stand, http://images.apple.com/displays/gallery/images/image4_20081014.jpg
< 1252193175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this screen works in direct sunlight, which surprises me
< 1252193181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, I see.
< 1252193187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure about that 19 cm?
< 1252193189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is it glossy?
< 1252193191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See fizzie.
< 1252193197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think so
< 1252193213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Just played with tilting my LCD screen a bit.
< 1252193215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252193223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Glossy displays tend to wash out in the sun as opposed to matte ones, which just get blocked out
< 1252193225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically just reflects the sunlight rather than using a backlight
< 1252193233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, glossy displays are awful indoors
< 1252193237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has more colour distortion than my desktop for some reason
< 1252193255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though neither is IPS. Definitely not pricey enough for that
< 1252193255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this iMac has, like, two dead pixels. And the colours are perfect. And it's really sharp. Only disadvantage is that the contrast is kind of crap.
< 1252193257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm not noticing the usual LCD distortion. Maybe I'm just bad at noticing that on modern LCDs, because I'm pretty damned sure this is a crappy monitor.
< 1252193272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wake it up from sleep in the morning and think "wow, those whites aren't very...white".
< 1252193286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Try moving instead and looking at it from an angle
< 1252193314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Did.
< 1252193317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, contrast doesn't matter iirc?
< 1252193318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1252193322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Backlight
< 1252193325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of display contrast
< 1252193327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, another disadvantage of IPS: response times
< 1252193337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah
< 1252193342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok
< 1252193342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most IPSes are 16ms response time, give or take.
< 1252193350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although their gray-to-gray response times are about 8ms.
< 1252193353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LCD is never going to get up to the response times of things like LEDs; but then, LEDs are impractical for screens smaller than a few metres
< 1252193354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's fine for everything but gaming.
< 1252193361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: See: OLED
< 1252193365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It exists, but is barely noticable.
< 1252193385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They're thin, have good colours, incredibly good contrast and don't need any backlight.
< 1252193391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they can be translucent.
< 1252193393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bend,.
< 1252193399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use very low power.
< 1252193400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes
< 1252193402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are very lightweight.
< 1252193405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about response time?
< 1252193407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't wait for them to become practical
< 1252193410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sub-1ms
< 1252193416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well under
< 1252193418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252193419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then why isn't everyone using them!?
< 1252193424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cost.
< 1252193427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Very large expense right no
< 1252193427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w
< 1252193429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait a year or two
< 1252193429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252193438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEDs have response times so good that they're often pulsed at incredibly fast speeds rather than dimming them
< 1252193440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not stopping them from being used, though.
< 1252193449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in displays of reasonable cost.
< 1252193462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, OLEDs are like someone wrote in a deus ex machina to a book about displays.
< 1252193480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, pulsing LEDs means you can put more power into them
< 1252193494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can *get* OLED TV sets, they just cost a lot.)
< 1252193502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're only like 11"
< 1252193502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you want a really bright LED display, it works better to massively overdrive them about 20% of the time and let them recover the other 80%, then run them at max continuously
< 1252193508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than
< 1252193514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if PVA (compromise between IPS and TN; a bit worse colour reproduction but faster response times) is thinner than IPS.
< 1252193523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's been some IPS ThinkPad at some point, though.
< 1252193524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep
< 1252193530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. High-quality TN is "acceptable".
< 1252193559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not when it comes to colour
< 1252193568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to randomly guess I have high-quality TN, simply because the gamma distortion is only even barely noticable at rather high angles.
< 1252193575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fine for most photography, at least.
< 1252193579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm going to randomly guess I have high-quality TN, simply because the gamma distortion is only even barely noticable at rather high angles. <-- same
< 1252193586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, think pre-press ;P
< 1252193586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How much did your display cost?
< 1252193590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Naturally.
< 1252193596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: $150-ish.
< 1252193597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://static2.rubyrow.net/Advertisers/bluebox1.gif How ironic! The space is misplaced.)
< 1252193603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You just have bad eyes, or got lucky.
< 1252193608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your colour reproduction still sucks balls.
< 1252193613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when I talk about high quality monitors I mean the same thing that Apple do :P
< 1252193615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does.
< 1252193635 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252193644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can notice the crap color reproduction. Just not much distortion.
< 1252193662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've seen it on other LCD displays. That's just... Horrifying)
< 1252193662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My display doesn't even dim until I'm practically perpendicular with it
< 1252193680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general I found distortion is worse on laptops than desktops
< 1252193689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether all those "LOL APPLE COMPUTERS ARE OVERPRICED" comparisons include an IPS display.
< 1252193727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, there is a good chunk of markup from Apple, but a lot of the price delta *is* from Apple just straight-up using more expensive parts.
< 1252193750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Apple adds something like 25-30%
< 1252193755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is typical for high-end products
< 1252193757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right.
< 1252193806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a 40" OLED 1920x1200 panel from Samsung. (Of course you can't *buy* it, it was just demoed in some sort of trade show from their pilot non-mass-production line.
< 1252193826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Samsung or someone are releasing a 19" OLED, iirc
< 1252193827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, 1920x1080. Anyway.
< 1252193828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon
< 1252193837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nice 55dpi there.
< 1252193847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a TV.
< 1252193847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yeah, yeah, TV, I know.)
< 1252193849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252193872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a 200 dpi TV be just awesome?
< 1252193879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 40" demo was already back in 2008, I guess they should be getting something produced sooner or later too.
< 1252193922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because anything above 1080p isn't available anywhere
< 1252193930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh right
< 1252193936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, at around 175dpi you can't see pixels without a magnifying glass.
< 1252193946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything above that just gets much more expensive quickly.
< 1252193952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no kill like overkill
< 1252193962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just made that up, please tell me you just made that up.
< 1252193966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's STUPID.
< 1252193968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill
< 1252193983 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252193988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari is so irritating after having used Chrome on XP.
< 1252193997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, answer is: no, I just wanted to be able to link tvtroupes
< 1252194002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling
< 1252194003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's one thing that setup was, it was snappy.
< 1252194004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tvropes*
< 1252194008 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252194033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tvropes.
< 1252194036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ropes onna TV.
< 1252194052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh fail at spell correction
< 1252194060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you click that link?
< 1252194070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and closed it after having only clicked one more page, not in a tab.
< 1252194076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am manly and I have willpower.
< 1252194077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, damn
< 1252194085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean you were trying to tropise ehird
< 1252194085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, if you don't correct it soon that typo will be forever typo'd.
< 1252194086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252194093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes of course
< 1252194095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND YOU WILL NEVER LIVE DOWN THE SHAME
< 1252194099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why?
< 1252194107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not?
< 1252194116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, I've never visited TV Trpoes and don't know what all the fuss is about, but loads of people have warned me off it)
< 1252194124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV Trpoes!
< 1252194126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tvtropes of course
< 1252194141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's addictive because they link almost everything and it's always to an interesting and funny article about that thing with tons of examples and you click it and
< 1252194145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is just very... addicting
< 1252194168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you know that xkcd about clicking around on wikipedia for hours? Well it is kind of like that, but more extreme
< 1252194187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm unlikely to know about any particular xkcd unless it's been quoted so much that you get kickbanned for quoting it again
< 1252194204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ropes are the "very long strings" class in SGI's STL implementation.
< 1252194205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can get kickbanned for quoting xkcd?
< 1252194205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, you're not missing out on anything. xkcd suuuuuuucks lately.
< 1252194226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Tons of IRC channels are heavily policed in that way to make the conversation better.
< 1252194229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've never seen it happen, but probably
< 1252194237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://xkcd.com/214/
< 1252194242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Experience shows that an anarchic environment is a lot less annoying and generally has at least as good conversation quality.
< 1252194243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which one's that?
< 1252194245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that one is old enough to not suck
< 1252194245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. #esoteric
< 1252194249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the numbers off by heart yet
< 1252194252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's about Batman
< 1252194253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... the one about clicking around on wikipedia
< 1252194256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said
< 1252194268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop it, you're feeding his I Will Not Use a Web Browser habit :P
< 1252194278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it
< 1252194283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I encourage it.
< 1252194291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ;_;
< 1252194298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The thing with xkcd is that there's hardly ever a punchline.
< 1252194305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny because, uhh, you're culturally in-the-know or something.
< 1252194305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, yes
< 1252194310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do get some of them, though
< 1252194323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what Wikipedia is! Sometimes I get to wildly different pages when clicking on Wikipedia.
< 1252194325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may have done this!
< 1252194333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can sympathise with me and understand my cultural position.
< 1252194339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore: Ha ha ha! Humour!
< 1252194343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I get that xkcd. Ever realised that you ended up clicking around for hours?
< 1252194347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, xkcd is meant to be funny?
< 1252194351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was meant to be insightful
< 1252194360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it fails even harder at that...
< 1252194367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That does not a joke make.
< 1252194378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, but it is insightful
< 1252194393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, something xkcdsucks pointed out: Every time a girl is named in xkcd, the name Megan is used. And: http://xkcd.com/215/
< 1252194403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bawwwwwwwwwwwwww she broke up with me maybe if I mention her in my comic all the time ;_;
< 1252194421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd seriously bet he actually broke up with someone called Megan
< 1252194451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://xkcd.com/322/ has a girl named Joanna
< 1252194470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, dark-haired girl then
< 1252194474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, almost all
< 1252194483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That comic, incidentally, also lacks a joke
< 1252194494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless his ANGER AT PEOPLE MAKING BAD JOKES ON THE INTERNET transforms into humour somehow
< 1252194506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; but I'm on xkcd's IRC network atm playing mafia, and comic 322 is the strongest-enforced rule there
< 1252194558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Willingly spending time around xkcd fanatics? Well, I guess mafia doesn't involve too much discussion beyond, well, mafia.
< 1252194587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the channel appears to have nothing to do with xkcd in particular, apart from the server
< 1252194595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly full of nomic players, it seems sometimes
< 1252194601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, about the same density as this channel
< 1252194601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foonetic isn't xkcd's network, btw
< 1252194613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes
< 1252194613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just only popular because of xkc
< 1252194613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d
< 1252194629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I was connecting via irc.xkcd.com
< 1252194634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose I could just connect directly
< 1252194636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc.ubuntu.com
< 1252194639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Ubuntu's IRC network!
< 1252194645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that is freenode right?
< 1252194654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1252194655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that freenode or not? I failed to determine after trying to tell for a while
< 1252194658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is.
< 1252194658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why these aliases?
< 1252194663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be sort-of freenode, but sort-of not
< 1252194668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How is it not
< 1252194679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: e.g. it recognised that the name ais523 was taken, but wouldn't let me identify
< 1252194687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could have joined #esoteric to check
< 1252194690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a different Freenode server.
< 1252194691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, this was ages ago
< 1252194701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll try
< 1252194714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or just used host or nslookup
< 1252194727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"irc.ubuntu.com is an alias for chat.freenode.net."
< 1252194729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252194748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and:
< 1252194749 0 :ais523_telnet!n=ais523_t@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252194750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc.freenode.net is an alias for chat.freenode.net.
< 1252194750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who even uses chat.freenode.net as opposed to irc.?
< 1252194764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, everyone. indirectly
< 1252194766 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, definitely the same network
< 1252194770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but directly.
< 1252194771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1252194772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:
< 1252194774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no one?
< 1252194777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:52] AnMaster: "irc.ubuntu.com is an alias for chat.freenode.net."
< 1252194795 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed that, but I was halfway through the test already
< 1252194807 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's rather hard to notice other people's messages over tlenet while you're typing
< 1252194812 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252194844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252194860 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252194905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if my dream last night was lucid or just fake-lucid (i.e. dreaming I was lucid).
< 1252194918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was certainly very apprehensive about jumping out of the window despite a good amount of proof I was dreaming.
< 1252194974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that could just be my "don't jump out of windows" instinct, but I'm usually out of that window pretty quickly after becoming lucid. (I always seem to start lucid dreams in my bedroom when it's day.)
< 1252195036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(idea: convince him that he is dreaming to make him jump out his window?)
< 1252195044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't try at home)
< 1252195058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would require rather drastic changes to the fabric of reality.
< 1252195088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I never open it, it's always just open when I'm about to jump.
< 1252195097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although one time I jumped out of it while it was closed, I think.
< 1252195099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about me starting talking about advanced stuff in haskell suddenly?
< 1252195112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could work.
< 1252195156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or ais talking like Mike Riley?
< 1252195169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, for a long time)
< 1252195183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not in the context of making some joke)
< 1252195188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I remember one missed opportunity for lucidity from ages ago: I was in the bathroom, just standing around. Suddenly, a translucent, unrealistic ... old army? I don't know, but a stampede, came running through. To avoid them, even though they appeared entirely intangible, I ... went on the wall? Or just stayed to the side. Something, anyway. They passed. I remember thinking about dreams at one point, but obviously that was real. I didn't think it strange
< 1252195206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^add a .; I typed it but my client stripped it
< 1252195212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or something)
< 1252195221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "strang."?
< 1252195223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange.
< 1252195226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252195236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, two chars stripped for me and fizzie, remember that
< 1252195243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seriously fix that bug in your client
< 1252195245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not me, it's my client
< 1252195245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying
< 1252195262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: KeyMaker missed a spam page today: Talk:Main Page/index.php
< 1252195276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the T43's battery life isn't all that good; 5 hours 23 minutes
< 1252195286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that sound good to me?
< 1252195290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sounds
< 1252195296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looking now
< 1252195299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, not really; I'm looking for 6 hours, minimum.
< 1252195307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X200 gets up to 9 hours.
< 1252195308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and since you won't use cd probably just get an ultrabay battery as well
< 1252195314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deleted
< 1252195317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that both can't charge at once
< 1252195318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do that? The T43 is from 2005.
< 1252195331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still has IBM on it.
< 1252195347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that guy I met at uni with the 9 cell battery had an ultrabay too, said he got close to 14 hours or something like that
< 1252195360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much did he get without? I guess it was X-series.
< 1252195373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the ultrabay battery is presumably heavier than the optical drive, no?
< 1252195379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't look like that X series pic you showed me
< 1252195384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the slab look at all
< 1252195396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a new X-series.
< 1252195396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather more like mine, and as I said, it was IBM era
< 1252195422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, since you can choose different WiFi cards and stuff, I suppose I could replace it with a draft-n one.
< 1252195429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I replace the HD with an SSD
< 1252195430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I didn't ask about it without ultrabay
< 1252195449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure you can get at the wifi card easily
< 1252195452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, the T42 was lighter and faster than the T43... but at expense of battery
< 1252195479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and why pre-N?
< 1252195483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed.
< 1252195490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... how fast is your internet connection?
< 1252195499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is that this WiFi is slow.
< 1252195508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200kiB/s vs 800kiB/s.
< 1252195513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how many bars or whatever do you get there?
< 1252195519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, that is probably latency
< 1252195519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full, or near it.
< 1252195523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could just be a shitty antenna.
< 1252195533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid to consider things older than T60, anyway; they're all single-core Pentium M affairs.
< 1252195539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it'd be upsettingly slow.
< 1252195551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and what speed is it? On AP I mean
< 1252195557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh?
< 1252195580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 11a, 11b or 11g, or even pre-n?
< 1252195584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the AP
< 1252195593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, uh, the one before n.
< 1252195598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g?
< 1252195598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shitty ISP-provided "Livebox".
< 1252195599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay
< 1252195605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:300 ;; want!
< 1252195643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no mouse input at all?
< 1252195651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares? It probably runs DOS
< 1252195654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well then I bet the issue is either latency or crappy AP
< 1252195668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AP is across the room.
< 1252195671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it is latency.
< 1252195682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, latency is always larger than for ethernet IME
< 1252195702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well 200kiB/s just isn't acceptable; I can get 800kiB/s, dammit, and I want to use a good portion of that.
< 1252195702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, especially if AP doesn't support short preamble
< 1252195716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I bet you will need to replace your AP then
< 1252195734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one of those Linuxable blue/green Linksys routers with the sticky-up antennae.
< 1252195752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also a similarly-styled Linksys ADSL modem; just a question of linking those together sometime.
< 1252195762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because pre-N isn't going to be any better than g at 200 vs 800
< 1252195772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it speeds up the non-internet stuff, though?
< 1252195775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the overhead.
< 1252195775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 11g should manage 800 kbps without issue
< 1252195790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it speeds up LAN yes
< 1252195800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least capacity
< 1252195805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about latency
< 1252195807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could get very large antennae for the Linksys AP.
< 1252195814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can buy gigantic ones.
< 1252195823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doubt it would help
< 1252195827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I get ads for gigantic ones every day in my inbox.
< 1252195834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1252195841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252195846 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252195851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why aren't there houses with antennae in the walls, I wonder?
< 1252195859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway latency will always be higher with wlan than switched ethernet. Always
< 1252195864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, with a 802.11g AP in the same room you indeed should get reasonable speeds; it goes theoretically up to 54 Mbps == 6.75 MB/s.
< 1252195875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably also true for routered ethernet
< 1252195988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host
< 1252196025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is switched ethernet, like, direct computer-to-computer?
< 1252196107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, switching's like networking without any intelligence in the routers
< 1252196115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead, the computers at each end have to work out the routes for themselves
< 1252196119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't scale
< 1252196124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1252196136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works well for things like relatively small company networks, though
< 1252196141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252196160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's quite a bit of intelligence in a modern switch, though; for things like sensible multicast forwarding only to listening ports and such.
< 1252196163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it'd be less of a pain to just buy an AP
< 1252196167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1252196168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a router
< 1252196190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The student housing network (which I assume had few thousand hosts) used to be a single gigantic Ethernet segment, and it worked reasonably well.
< 1252196201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except when people misconfigured things.)
< 1252196205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *shrug* anyway latency will always be less with ethernet. A lot less if AP doesn't support short preambles
< 1252196205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a ton of wasted CPU time :P
< 1252196216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *a lot more
< 1252196228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah
< 1252196229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of my final-year project, I had to design a hardware implementation of a networking switch
< 1252196240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err no
< 1252196249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nothing quite as complex as ethernet, though, just simple packets made up of address and data)
< 1252196252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252196253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252196260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ethernet will have a LOT less latency if AP doesn't support short preamble
< 1252196263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays it's about "one network segment per 50 apartments" and DHCP.
< 1252196263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252196263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so less is correct there
< 1252196269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I managed to make it work for arbitrary sizes despite VHDL's amazingly annoying lack of recursion
< 1252196298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silicon recursion: proving space is continuous since 2010
< 1252196309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it bottomed out, and it's unrolled by the compiler
< 1252196311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The circuit keeps getting smaller!
< 1252196314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Shush you :P
< 1252196328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it's quite difficult to design the code so that the code doesn't get bigger when the number of inputs does
< 1252196363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ridiculous, I had one array which held all the temp vars, and lots of polynomials to index it
< 1252196371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of those "broadband routers" have been made with the assumption that Internet access is slow, which means that if you plug a direct 100M/100M Internet connection in the "WAN" port, and then connect a computer with 100M Ethernet directly to the "router" (I hesitate to call them that), it's unable to transfer full-speed, since it's built on some really crappy general-purpose-CPU embedded platform and runs some equally silly software on it.
< 1252196374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it reminded me a lot of esoprogramming, in fact)
< 1252196401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was a often-noticed thing in the student networking newsgroup.
< 1252196417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well for me the wan port looks like a special modem port
< 1252196420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh, I see the reasoning there
< 1252196421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have ADSL
< 1252196429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only real routers are pentium 3 boxes.
< 1252196430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUR HUR
< 1252196442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, IDGI
< 1252196465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, for routers that include an ADSL modem, it sort-of makes sense to make some assumptions about the maximum speed.
< 1252196466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bunch of people use old computers as routers because, you know, who cares about noise, space or power consumption, let's be cool and use this as a router.
< 1252196530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, it seems that Amazon has old ThinkPads, although unfortunately at low CPU speeds.
< 1252196534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are WLAN dealies with "single Ethernet interface for an external internet, like a separate ADSL box, and then a four-port switch for the LAN" and still design the hardware so that it can't route and NAT packets from LAN to WAN at full speed.
< 1252196558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a wlan ap in all that; that's why I said "WLAN dealies".
< 1252196574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, I won't survive on a single-core Pentium M, will I?
< 1252196624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I probably would, but somehow I suspect you wouldn't
< 1252196707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically comfortable with this early-model 2.16ghz Core 2 Duo and 2.5GB of RAM, but I'll be putting an SSD in the notebook, so that gives it quite a performance advantage. Still, single-core is kind of bad.
< 1252196708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how did you manage 5 years ago?
< 1252196728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five years ago I was only starting to program shitty PHP craps, and my system had so much crap on it I don't even know.
< 1252196735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it crashed So. Much.
< 1252196745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it ran windows?
< 1252196748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP.
< 1252196757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was that frankenstein a-bit-here-a-bit-there cobbled PC that existed in so many various configurations since 1998.
< 1252196760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well XP is quite stable for being windows
< 1252196777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only way I can describe that machine is a constant war between crappy hardware.
< 1252196780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And man, it was so loud.
< 1252196788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still have it?
< 1252196788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I slept a meter away from it, and it took me ages to adjust.
< 1252196790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIR
< 1252196794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And speaking of old computers as a router, I admit I'm one of those people.
< 1252196795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a loud, deep noise.
< 1252196801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you didn't shut it down at night?
< 1252196814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because starting it up took about three to five minutes.
< 1252196818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except that I did put the Atom box in to work as the router to eat a bit less electricity.)
< 1252196822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, suspend to disk?
< 1252196832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Whoa! Too advanced to work.
< 1252196837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh?
< 1252196844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that did not work.
< 1252196848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The case, optical drives and disks survive today
< 1252196853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh
< 1252196862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But everything else was replaced recently. It is serving as my mother's computer
< 1252196863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mobo and cpu?
< 1252196866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252196877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dd cleaned the disks?
< 1252196878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now an AMD Athlon X2 thing. Still quite noisy.
< 1252196887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not same ones?
< 1252196889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The 80GB is still an installation of Windows since at least 2006.
< 1252196898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 500GB, which is the one that is used, is Ubuntu 9.04.
< 1252196921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She used the 80GB until late last year, when I installed Ubuntu, and it's been about 10x less sluggish ever since.
< 1252196938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from at least
< 1252196948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that particular one probably dated back to 2005.
< 1252196979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I haven't really "coped" with any computer before this one.
< 1252196992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, different room helps
< 1252197000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeeeeeeeeeno.
< 1252197024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure does. My desktop is noisy. Couldn't sleep in same room
< 1252197030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean the bed
< 1252197034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252197045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This computer makes a barely audible hum, but I'm sensitive enough that I still put it to sleep.
< 1252197061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it clicks a bit when the disk is working.
< 1252197066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have above normal hearing too so... yeah
< 1252197073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's something like 23dBA.
< 1252197078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :measured by silentpcreview about that
< 1252197084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zalman tnn... would be so cool
< 1252197090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly performance...
< 1252197093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And around 20dBA thinks become completely inaudible
< 1252197099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Actually, it can handle a quad-core CPU
< 1252197103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh?
< 1252197107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not a good graphics card with it
< 1252197114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I would want that
< 1252197121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So use a dual-core CPU
< 1252197130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah would be enough
< 1252197132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the current TNN sold is an (iirc, less beefy) Mini-ATX variant; you'd have to get it from a retailer that has some stockpiled.
< 1252197143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1252197144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You wouldn't be able to get _high_ end.
< 1252197192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually, I'd just get http://helmer3.sfe.se/ and place it on another floor. Wait... Make that "another building" even
< 1252197201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the max you could get would be 9600 GT + 2.6GHz dual-core
< 1252197203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next to the power station
< 1252197209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ SSD
< 1252197216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't a powerhouse by any measure, but the SSD should make it very snappy.
< 1252197221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, you know, more silent.
< 1252197292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But, er, "The completely fanless case, power supply and heatpipe-based cooling system was massive, heavy, and very expensive, well over US$1,000."
< 1252197314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introduced 2003; that sentence is from a "background" section of an early 2006 review of a pre-assembled computer based on it.
< 1252197315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I was thinking about the heat
< 1252197324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Think about the damn price!
< 1252197344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you know radiation. It would be like having a dual screen laptop right on your lap when standing a few meters away!
< 1252197349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNN-500AF + X25-M is already nearing $2,000
< 1252197379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add the rest of the computer components, totalling say around $700
< 1252197391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that makes $2,700 for a mid-end system
< 1252197396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, better since it's SSD, but
< 1252197427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, er, http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/epcn-tnn500/epcn1.jpg
< 1252197438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah?
< 1252197442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those wheels are needed; it's something like 30kg.
< 1252197444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool design
< 1252197454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't touch it!
< 1252197455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, great. Hard to steal
< 1252197467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a TNN notebook!
< 1252197475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1252197479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus: Sell it as a cheap method of birth control
< 1252197493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay. Not cheap.
< 1252197739 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252198417 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252198910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flought
< 1252199408 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252199851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://porg.es/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/unicodedata-520d2txt.mp3 Unicode makes passable chiptune noise music (warning: loud).
< 1252199875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that mp3 that's also valid unicode?
< 1252199889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's `lame -r -m m -s 16 --bitwidth 8 ~/Downloads/UnicodeData-5.2.0d2.txt` where that file is http://unicode.org/Public/5.2.0/ucd/UnicodeData-5.2.0d12.txt.
< 1252199892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From http://porg.es/blog/what-unicode-sounds-like.
< 1252199896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually sounds good.
< 1252199905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I legitimately like it, musically.
< 1252200102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I just had the ridiculous idea of writing a brainfuck misinterpreter
< 1252200112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it reads in a BF program, then runs it incorrectly
< 1252200122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed ridiculous. forget it quickly
< 1252200137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably will
< 1252200153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... although I still think Befunge2K is an interesting idea
< 1252200165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(befunge, all commands have a constant chance of being no-ops rather than doing what they should do)
< 1252200174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's possible to write a program that's 100% guaranteed to work?
< 1252200192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also: should # and ; be affected? they aren't really commands...)
< 1252200266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible
< 1252200269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every command could fail
< 1252200344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could set it up so that it's in an infinite loop until the commands start working, though
< 1252200358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if going vertically, _ has a different failure behaviour to success behaviour, entirely
< 1252200374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and say you arranged it so that the TOS was 0 unless the previous command had run correctly...
< 1252200376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probability, though
< 1252200380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get fails, all the time
< 1252200381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever
< 1252200383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it has p=0
< 1252200391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's still 100% guaranteed to work
< 1252200398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how?
< 1252200403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100*(1-0) = 100
< 1252200418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something has p=1 of working, it's 100% likely to work
< 1252200418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure, it is certain to happen, it's just that it's perfectly possible not to
< 1252200553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/PC110
< 1252200561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too silly!
< 1252200778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, I like how people are claiming that IBM wanted the PC to be cloneable
< 1252200793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being that that's, you know, the opposite of reality
< 1252200800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they desperately wanted a monopoly
< 1252201229 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was the IBM PC so clonable, as opposed to other machines?
< 1252201239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't.
< 1252201246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from being quite off-the-shelf
< 1252201259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but heck, the IBM PC *sucked*
< 1252201296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the Apple Lisa came out two years later and was massively better, albeit more expensive
< 1252201302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next year the Macintosh, which was like half the price
< 1252201311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas the PC was, uhh, sucking.
< 1252202337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE.
< 1252202338 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252202362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram How many people are
< 1252202368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a good question,
< 1252202371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION so should you
< 1252202372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,
< 1252202382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: ping
< 1252202383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo butt
< 1252202385 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butt
< 1252202385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh echo butt
< 1252202386 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1252202387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1252202387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin
< 1252202388 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ minifind \ paste \ quote \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram
< 1252202392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram fuck
< 1252202395 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many people are \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ all countries \ Summary: \ \ population \ \ total highest lowest \ \ 6.68 billion people 1.31 billion people China 48 people Pitcairn Islands \ 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 estimates \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) on September 5, 2009 from Champaign,
< 1252202399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252202401 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ fuck English word \ Definitions: \ \ fuck \ \ slang for sexual intercourse \ \ Word origins: \ \ Old English Middle English Classical Latin first recorded use: 1916 93 years ago \ Pronunciation: \ \ f \ \ k \ \ f' uhk \ \ Synonyms: \ \ fuck \ \ nookie shtup \ \ nooky \ \ piece of
< 1252202408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.68 billion people are.
< 1252202417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...also, nookie shtup.
< 1252202418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :success!
< 1252202432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees no nookie
< 1252202438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1252202553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram Scientology
< 1252202560 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientology \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ Scientology English word \ Definition: \ \ Scientology \ \ a new religion founded by L. Ron Hubbard in 1955 and characterized by a belief in the power of a person' s spirit to clear itself of past painful experiences through self knowledge and spiritual fulfillment \ \ Word origins:
< 1252202560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1252202565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Wolfram I love you
< 1252202566 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1252202575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also aliens
< 1252202582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram sexual intercourse
< 1252202590 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexual intercourse \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ sexual intercourse English phrase \ Definition: \ \ sexual intercourse \ \ the act of sexual procreation between a man and a woman; the man' s penis is inserted into the woman' s vagina and excited until orgasm and ejaculation occur \ \ Synonyms: \ \ sexual intercourse
< 1252202601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So THAT'S why you have to be 18!
< 1252202603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram infinity squared
< 1252202604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's practically erotica.
< 1252202608 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity squared \ \ Input: \ 2 \ \ Result: \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) on September 5, 2009 from Champaign, IL. © Wolfram Alpha LLC—A Wolfram Research Company \ \ 1 \ \
< 1252202617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's useless...
< 1252202632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: HackEgo's Wolfram Alpha interface is the only thing in the universe more buggy than Wolfram Alpha itself
< 1252202637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: HackEgo's Wolfram Alpha interface is the only thing in the universe more buggy than Wolfram Alpha
< 1252202639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reads better that way)
< 1252202646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=infinity%5E2
< 1252202650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Result = sideways 8
< 1252202669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does HackEgo screen scrape, or does W|A provide an API?
< 1252202674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scraping
< 1252202678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It screen scrapes the PDF.
< 1252202678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to pay for the API
< 1252202682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes: a PDF.
< 1252202701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic
< 1252202705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be better to scrape the Mathematica notebook, but
< 1252202707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go
< 1252202748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does Mathematica have a button to turn a notebook into code?
< 1252202758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the .nb
< 1252202759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yow!
< 1252202766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the code's embedded in there somehow
< 1252202783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains base-64, presumably images
< 1252202786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a shitload of boxes
< 1252202899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who came up with the term "screen scraping"? It's not like a screen scraping tool is taking a screenshot and interpreting it
< 1252203394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo violates W|A's terms of use
< 1252203417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, nobody gives a shit
< 1252203419 0 :calamari!n=calamari@70.162.187.246 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252203421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I violate it by being under 18.
< 1252203486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i violate it just out of solidarity
< 1252204145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advantage of ball mice: move more smoothly. Gah this mouse+pad.
< 1252204164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought ball mice got less smooth, when they were dirty
< 1252204165 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252204752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, no doubt
< 1252204756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that beats scratchiness
< 1252204769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't say felt pads; that's just like mud for a laser mouse
< 1252204779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not sure why we obsoleted ball mice
< 1252204783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess cleaning
< 1252204783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still
< 1252204787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they were clean they worked perfectly
< 1252204805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are any bluetooth ball mice...
< 1252204879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I look at a trackball I cringe
< 1252204887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just reminds me of popping your thumb out of its socket...
< 1252205020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*optical mouse; I'm not using a laser mouse atm
< 1252205269 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252205292 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252205374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next: the aureal mouse
< 1252205417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aural
< 1252205534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, apparently the T42 had good battery life
< 1252205550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be travelling further and further back in the ThinkPad line, and am scared at the performance it will lead me to...
< 1252206655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why Psychologists Are Infinitely More Dangerous Than Conspiracy Theorists" from infowars.com.
< 1252206663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much textbook crazy concentrated in one place.
< 1252206679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They want to destrooooooy your mind! Obamacare is eugenics NWO 9/11!
< 1252207017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes Twitter was decentralized. I think I've said that before, and someone mentioned identi.ca
< 1252207320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :identi.ca is not decentralised.
< 1252207324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nobody gives a shit.
< 1252207335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if twitter went down, nothing much would be lost; it is inherently transient
< 1252207341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seriously, distributed this, distributed that
< 1252207344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly pointless.
< 1252207454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distribution using pointless topology
< 1252208258 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know a way to scan for a given process being started?
< 1252208271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably without ptracing the invoker
< 1252208285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while sleep 1; do pgrep
< 1252208289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you don't need it accurately, you could poll
< 1252208308 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to figure out a command line being invoked
< 1252208315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep can print at ree.
< 1252208317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a tree
< 1252208473 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh, pgrep is annoying, but it should work
< 1252208482 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate piping in to read
< 1252208748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing"
< 1252208816 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252209747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252210715 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252211112 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252212008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes that he can malloc from Python, kind of
< 1252212030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not?
< 1252212035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why would you need to?
< 1252212044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for fun? Being silly?
< 1252212050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1252212058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you'd mean by that, though
< 1252212113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc for malice
< 1252212166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? ??2@YAPAXI@Z
< 1252212168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is ??2@YAPAXI@Z
< 1252212908 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252215897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just realised how terribly awful http://windows7sins.org/#1 is from a graphics design point of view
< 1252215908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and knowing the FSF, the content isn't much better either
< 1252215956 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just realized it?
< 1252216009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: first I've seen the page
< 1252216021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually read much of the content, I'm just guessing it's bad
< 1252216027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graphic design is obvious, though
< 1252216029 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok
< 1252216037 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant you'd been there several times and just realized
< 1252216042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the real reason open source isn't really taking off is that the FSF is so awful at marketing)
< 1252216105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( stallman
< 1252218725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t clean Ubuntu install is nice :)
< 1252218742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should seriously consider doing this every 6 months, rather than upgrading
< 1252220302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252223695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c
< 1252223999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252224000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252225366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1252225743 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252225868 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252226560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252226582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252227173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1252227178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1252227184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... almost 9am
< 1252227191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shops will be opening so I can buy breakfast
< 1252227212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, been up all night?
< 1252227212 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to do http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20090906 with only two Google searches; should I be worried or something?
< 1252227215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252227233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you read uf too?
< 1252227242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so that you remember uf had such a crossword)
< 1252227255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it is for today
< 1252227267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant "googled to find the crossword"
< 1252227269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1252227279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I meant I managed to fill it in :-P
< 1252227298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way they avoided 4e references
< 1252227316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh?
< 1252227316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even an error in it; it says "twenty-sided solid" where it means "twelve-sided solid"
< 1252227338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I couldn't manage it, since I never played D&D
< 1252227341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the crossword stops at third edition, which is probably a wise choice
< 1252227357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fourth edition is a more or less completely different game, just with the same name for marketing purposes
< 1252227362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a vaguely similar theme
< 1252227414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252227449 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252227450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, I just realised how terribly awful http://windows7sins.org/#1 is from a graphics design point of view <-- um yeah that the frame scrolls sideways makes it look terrible for a start
< 1252227465 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252227469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it then doesn't use said frame all the way...
< 1252227487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even get why it does the start of a page in a frame, then leaves it for the rest of the page
< 1252227501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed
< 1252227532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea how to connect to internet using your phone in ubuntu?
< 1252227541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a phone
< 1252227546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I have 3G internet thingy on my phone
< 1252227548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ee what?
< 1252227550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeh*
< 1252227554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even an old one?
< 1252227556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why people would assume i do
< 1252227558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I do
< 1252227562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252227563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my family own a landline, I can use taht
< 1252227567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I use payphones sometimes too
< 1252227585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean, I would have assumed at least an old GSM one with black and white screen or so
< 1252227596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or black and grey rather, you know, like old calculators)
< 1252227643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or possibly modern cheap calculators too, but I haven't used a non-graph-capable one for years, so no clue)
< 1252227653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern cheap calculators still do that, yes
< 1252227661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exams is a pretty good reason to use them
< 1252227672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often calculators that do much more than arithmetic are banned
< 1252227717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for this course graphing ones are allowed, but ones that can do CAS aren't
< 1252227730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like simplifying expressions and such
< 1252227740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is just below what is allowed.
< 1252227821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I think mine doesn't follow the physical laws... I haven't replaced the batteries for years, and yes I used it a lot.
< 1252227832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four of those small AAAA or whatever they are called
< 1252227964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that I replaced batteries in one of those cheap calculators a lot more often...
< 1252227974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I used it much less
< 1252227977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very odd
< 1252228022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Shouldn't a graphing calculator use more power than a cheap one in general?
< 1252228160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this "using your phone over bluetooth" or what?
< 1252228194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, um that was before, but last was "calculator"
< 1252228215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but about phone for connecting to internet over bluetooth, if you know anything about it, please tell
< 1252228290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it "manually" in Debian once, but it was quite a kludge; using that USB 3G modem in Ubuntu was impressively easy, though. My guess for phone-and-bluetooth would be the Bluetooth Device Wizard, maybe.
< 1252228294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mean, opera mini works fine on the phone, yet I can't see to share it with the laptop over bluethooth.
< 1252228309 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should perhaps actually try this, since I have the laptop and Ubuntu open and all.
< 1252228348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: would depend on how much calculation it was doing, I suppose
< 1252228355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm... same wizard as where you pair the devices up? Because I don't remember seeing any option for that there. I can mount the phone and browse it's file system and such
< 1252228369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, maybe it wouldn't; it's more likely to have a more expensive processor, which therefore probably has better power-save features
< 1252228375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the graphing one has been used a LOT more.
< 1252228386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's a TI-83+ btw
< 1252228403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graphing one may also have batteries which hold more charge
< 1252228417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and ofc if it's solar-powered, the batteries may never run out)
< 1252228447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well 4 AAAA vs 2 AAA? Not sure
< 1252228464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither is solar-powered
< 1252228466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most AAAs hardly hold any charge, they're mass-produced for consumers
< 1252228476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but AAAAs are even smaller?
< 1252228477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAA, I don't know; but likely they'd be higher-quality due to being harder to get hold of
< 1252228482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252228489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small doesn't necessarily equal low charge, it depends on what they're made of
< 1252228500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, both are Duracell thingies. So not exactly "cheap no-name"
< 1252228566 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious, there's no immediately-obvious thing. What with Ubuntu's "just works" motto, I'd have assumed they have a user-friendly no-config-file-editing-involved solution for this.
< 1252228579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just works for Palms
< 1252228579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same...
< 1252228595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I imagine phone-tethering would be hard to develop, as most networks ban it
< 1252228597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather expensive, too
< 1252228614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I got as far as using rfcomm to bind the DUN interface for the phone, but there I got stuck....
< 1252228615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody bans it around these parts. And what do you mean "expensive"?
< 1252228622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call charges while testing
< 1252228636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, it's a fixed 10 eur/month for unlimited data.
< 1252228651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, your mobile operators are much less rip-offy than the ones over here
< 1252228652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did manage to use minicom to seriously mess up the phone with AT commands (had to power cycle it... heh), but not to connect to internet
< 1252228671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, most operators are pre-pay, but the rates go up astronomically high if you pay less than £15 a month
< 1252228689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I don't really know how to set up a traditional dial-up networking connection over Ubuntu either.
< 1252228701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it is per data here, but max 9 kr per 24 hours
< 1252228703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like tha
< 1252228705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that*
< 1252228718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much is a kr in euros or pounds?
< 1252228723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, google?
< 1252228732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`convert 1kr in euros
< 1252228732 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1252228743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`convert 9 SEK in EUR
< 1252228744 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1252228746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252228751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 9 SEK in EUR
< 1252228752 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 Swedish kronor = 0.878224893 Euros
< 1252228758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1252228764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly 12 kr
< 1252228766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure
< 1252228772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pretty much the same as our £15 a month effective rate
< 1252228796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that wouldn't even be unlimited
< 1252228798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah, I have one of those SIM cards that you load with money, rather than pay per month thingy
< 1252228808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what the English term for it is
< 1252228816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-pay
< 1252228818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252228825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "pay as you go" is the usual advertising phrase
< 1252228832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh...
< 1252228884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram 9 SEK in EUR
< 1252228893 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 SEK in EUR \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ convert kr 9 Swedish kronor to euros \ Results: \ \ € 0.88 euros \ \ at current quoted rate \ \ Minimal currency form: \ 50c 20c 10c 5c 2c \ \ 0.72 c \ \ Local currency conversion: \ \ $ 1.25 US dollars \ \ at current quoted rate \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com)
< 1252228903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I meant that above 9 SEK you aren't charged any more for the surfing
< 1252228914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until after next midnight
< 1252228920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it starts counting again
< 1252229120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any Finnish operators offer that sort of deal, which is a bit of a shame, since I only use the mobile interwebs quite rarely, but a lot when it happens.
< 1252229210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, Network Manager's "add mobile broadband connection" wizard (which was used for the 3G modem stuff) says the connection can be made "using a 3G modem or a phone", but it looks a bit like no-one's bothered to add over-Bluetooth support to it yet.
< 1252229265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed my conclusion too
< 1252229319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that "Blueman" GTK bluetooth manager app, which according to some sources should make it easy to have network manager see the phone.
< 1252229352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and with the rfcomm stuff, it seems I'm supposed to know stuff about establishing the connection I have no clue about, I mean... it just works on the phone itself, why shouldn't it just be able to share that connection to the computer...
< 1252229432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: please establish data 3G connection, you take care of the details ok, please stand by... (a few seconds pass) done, lets talk with some simple data stream protocol now great!
< 1252229435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that won't ever work. I mean, unless your phone specifically has support for Internet-sharing thing. (Some PDA's at least support that sort of "connection setup on the phone, then Internet sharing over the PAN bluetooth protocol thing")
< 1252229438 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252229466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah why does it have to act as a clueless modem when it *can* do this sort of thing itself already
< 1252229484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that network-manager's "mobile broadband" wizard just has you select your provider from the list, with no messing-around with settings.
< 1252229505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep, there doesn't even seem to be anywhere to select what device you want to use for it
< 1252229533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I tried it, but quickly found it wouldn't work in any way whatosever
< 1252229586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what was the complex way under debian that you did?
< 1252229611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, network-manager expects to find the modem-to-use over HAL. That blueman app is supposed to provide the necessary glue there.
< 1252229618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252229630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in the official Ubuntu repositories, though. (But there is a APT source for it.)
< 1252229636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that explains it
< 1252229645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I wouldn't trust random repos.
< 1252229648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is it in the contrib repos?
< 1252229662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not in universe or multiverse at least.
< 1252229707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nnno. It's at https://launchpad.net/blueman, won't comment on trustworthiness.
< 1252229731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnno? was that intentional?
< 1252229771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems that bit.ly have got themselves an even shorter URL
< 1252229791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh?
< 1252229797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j.mp
< 1252229803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.mp? where is that
< 1252229807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a mirror
< 1252229809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and where is .ly ...)
< 1252229860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libya, and Northern Mariana islands.
< 1252229861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh .ly seems to be Libya
< 1252229868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah you were faster
< 1252230001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chi.mp seems to be giving out "free" (haven't read the details) .mp domains.
< 1252230073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, quite a few TLDs have been taken over commercially, now
< 1252230082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which IMO is making a mockery of the Internet
< 1252230114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know how the saying goes. You can't make a mockery without breaking a few... mocks.
< 1252230124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice seems gcc has an __attribute__ that allows you to control -O* and -f* on a per-function basis
< 1252230131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least modern GCC has it
< 1252230274 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252230290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how they speak constantly about you owning your own identity; then when you look at the small print term-definitions: "Owner the term used by Saipan DataCom to describe you as the subscriber to the CHI.MP Service and owner of 'Customer Content.'"
< 1252230350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252230502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most places (at least .fi) frown on single-character domains, but I guess not everyone.
< 1252230683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a relatively recent network-manager blog-post which shows how easy the internet-over-bluetooth-over-phone is, assuming you have a bleeding-edge network-manager: http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/category/networkmanager/
< 1252230691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess someone's actually working on it.
< 1252230761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course also: "DUN support needs a bit more work (its more complicated but also more capable); but tons of phones have PAN so lets get it out there."
< 1252230781 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1252230789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how do I check if mine has PAN?
< 1252230828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably it should have some sort of menu for Internet sharing. (Personally I haven't ran into any such phone yet.)
< 1252230921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PAN approach is that more sensible "phone knows actual connection details like AP names" one.
< 1252230997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sdptool to list services yields one that seems slightly relevant: Service Name: Network Access Point Service
< 1252231083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does actually sound relevant.
< 1252231124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1555921 is the full list btw
< 1252231178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that excludes the channel info and so on for brevity)
< 1252231218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it doesn't seem to be the PAN one though
< 1252231238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I found some website mentioning "Service Name: PAN Network Access Point" from that command.
< 1252231250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait...
< 1252231252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Service Description: Personal Ad-hoc Network Service which provides access to a network
< 1252231255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252231288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does sound good. But that PAN support in the network manager was (at the time of the blog post) only in the git master. Probably will take some time for it to dribble down to Ubuntu.
< 1252231365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes and this is separate from PAN it seems
< 1252231373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there is no menu for this on the phone afair
< 1252231505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My list of services is a lot shorter: http://pastebin.ca/1555928
< 1252231510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so the phone is quite ancient too.
< 1252231612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, what does "PAN" stand for?
< 1252231621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personal ad-hoc network?
< 1252231639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so that is the description indeed of that. So it is PAN but isn't called PAN
< 1252231659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also how would one go about using PAN without network manager?
< 1252231681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"personal area network" is the usual expansion. And no clue, really. There was some tutorial about it though.
< 1252231817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you have in the sdptool Service Class ID List field for that? I think those should be quite unambiguous, unlike the service name field which is a bit free-form.
< 1252231834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Service Class ID List:
< 1252231834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Network Access Point" (0x1116)
< 1252231835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that
< 1252231931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be the PAN-AP indeed.
< 1252231931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modprobe bnep ... lets see
< 1252231963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is looking at http://bluez.sourceforge.net/contrib/HOWTO-PAN and wondering if bluez is new enough in ubuntu 9.04
< 1252231972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbian sources: "return 0x1116; // PAN NAP
< 1252231976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programmet "pand" är för närvarande inte installerat. Du kan installera det genom att ange:
< 1252231976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get install bluez-compat
< 1252231977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh
< 1252231986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compat doesn't look good
< 1252232019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how it is done nowdays
< 1252232026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, sounds obsoletey. (Though really, if you got a working rfcomm serial line and can speak to the phone, you should be able to set up a traditional dial-up networking connection over it; it's just some AT commands and PPP.)
< 1252232046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I didn't manage to get the correct AT commands. Somehow
< 1252232097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it seems I have a pan0 interface now, though ifconfig says it is down
< 1252232112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what now, since the guide he looked at is so outdated it seems to refer to 2.4 kernels
< 1252232156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's somehow "connected" to the network the phone is on already, you should be able to just bring it up and run dhclient or some-such on it.
< 1252232174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it isn't connected as such
< 1252232184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with the pan0 interface at least
< 1252232193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, well, I don't know how that stuff works. :p
< 1252232219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have an OS X modem script for the GPRS dial-up networking for "Nokia phones" in general; it's got one set of AT commands that could work.
< 1252232269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, pastebin?
< 1252232317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to extract the relevant stuff; there's a lot of modem-script-programmatic nonsense.
< 1252232326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh?
< 1252232371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All kind of test-if-it's-a-Nokia-phone and control flow strangeness.
< 1252232398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252232435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, got a link to that PAN in network manager thing? it might help to look at the relevant commits
< 1252232445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and google seems unable to find it here
< 1252232499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, "AT&FE0V1&D2&S0&C1S0=0+IFC=3,1" should be the magical init string for the modem, followed by >> AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","[access point name here]" << for more initialization, and finally "ATD*99***1#" to dial.
< 1252232523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Had to use a different quotation notation for that middle string, since it has embedded quotes.)
< 1252232537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would access point name be?
< 1252232549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one should be somewhere in the phone menus.
< 1252232562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me it's "saunalahti.internet".
< 1252232570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this phone has swedish menus, it is a bit hard to guess what might be intended
< 1252232605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kopplingspunkt?
< 1252232612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly.
< 1252232621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to be "Telia GPRS" (though it is 3G actually -_-)
< 1252232637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Well, that might either be the real name or the human-readable name.
< 1252232640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually iirc it is "3G if available, otherwise GPRS"
< 1252232651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your provider listed in the network-manager mobile-broadband thing?
< 1252232675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes, but I didn't manage to actually make that thing use my phone
< 1252232676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, you can add a dummy "connection" there, then do "Edit" to it and look at the "APN" field it set up.
< 1252232685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm *lets see*
< 1252232710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :online.telia.se?
< 1252232712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252232740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a reasonable format. Providers seem to like to make it resemble a DNS name, even though it's not really related.
< 1252232747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : heh
< 1252232762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "saunalahti.internet" is just [ISP name].[fictional .internet TLD].
< 1252232764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seriously PAN sounds a lot saner
< 1252232768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1252232786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And these AT commands might not work; they do work with the N-Gage, though.
< 1252232818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so where did you read that about PAN in network-manager, because if I can read the patch I can possibly use it with command line tools myself or such
< 1252232864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/category/networkmanager/ was the blog-post about it.
< 1252232878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252232916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a date, which might be useful maybe.
< 1252232952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah maybe
< 1252232982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.gnome.org/cgit/network-manager-applet/commit/?id=3bec17daa718354e22ca9b5116a91a4cf594eeee possibly.
< 1252233047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that seems less useful than I had hoped
< 1252233050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1252233051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, the files the code refers to; that actual patch looks pretty short and network-manager-infrastructury.
< 1252233091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1252233169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You’ll need gnome-bluetooth >= 2.27.7.1, bluez >= 4.42" <-- right, both are way outdated here
< 1252233195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I wouldn't want to have to grok the whole network-manager-applet mess just for this.
< 1252233251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok, about dialup thingy, what sort of place does one enter those commands in?
< 1252233282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of depends on whether you want to use Ubuntu's network-settings-thingies or some separate PPP dialer (like wvdial).
< 1252233295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, whichever is easiest
< 1252233321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a working rfcomm channel (with the device file present) it is possible that the device shows up in Ubuntu/Gnome's System > Administration > Network.
< 1252233363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't show up there
< 1252233374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes I have the rfcomm0 device file
< 1252233375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a point-to-point connection, though?
< 1252233402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? where whould that be? can't see one at least
< 1252233426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one in that "Network Settings" connections tab.
< 1252233469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't know where it comes from, really.)
< 1252233484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, do you mean in the "network tool" thingy with ping, netstat and so on? or in the network manager thing?
< 1252233515 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither. There are three things; the network manager applet (from tray), the "network tool" thing, and a "Network Settings" dialog.
< 1252233537 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically pretty much everything in "Network Settings" is set to "roaming mode", in which case the network manager applet takes care of them.
< 1252233540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't find the final one
< 1252233544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all
< 1252233587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the command name is "network-admin"; maybe they've cleaned it away from the menus because it was confusing. :p
< 1252233606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tells me to do: sudo apt-get install gnome-network-admin
< 1252233644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, then... if you want to try that, you can. It's either that, some other graphical dialer thing, or just /etc/network/interfaces magic, but I don't quite know how that last one works.
< 1252233658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there is a ppp one there
< 1252233671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't see if it is for the built in modem in computer thing or not
< 1252233679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it reports pan0 as a wired network XD
< 1252233710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, same here too. (I have a useless pan0 too.)
< 1252233726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I suspect it may be for the built in modem
< 1252233748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Properties > Enable it, then see the Modem tab for "modem port".
< 1252233753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully you'll have your rfcomm device there.
< 1252233769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modem port is empty, lets see...
< 1252233785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop, lists /dev/modem and some ttyS[0-3]
< 1252233791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this doesn't even have a serial port
< 1252233821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Well, you need a serial-port-like connection to the phone, and a /dev node which looks like one -- something you can write AT commands to with minicom.
< 1252233824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed /dev/modem doesn't exist even
< 1252233840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a static list of suggestions, then -- same list here.
< 1252233847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I could write AT commands with minicom to the rfcomm device, but that made the phone lock up
< 1252233850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to power cycle it
< 1252233856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly I entered the wrong ones
< 1252233865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you want to try it, you can put that rfcomm device just manually there in modem port.
< 1252233887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's possible that you can do "Connection type" > "GPRS/UMTS" in the "General" tab and just enter the "Access point name" to the field which should appear.
< 1252233898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it might then do a reasonable generic initialization/dialing thing.
< 1252233922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't know what to enter for user/password there...
< 1252233930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just leave them empty, it works for me. :p
< 1252233937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, in OS X, at least.)
< 1252233954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you probably want the "Options" tab default-route and use-ISP's-DNS settings too.
< 1252233978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I actually don't know how to make it *dial* the configured connection, heh.
< 1252234003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think that network-settings should configure it so that you can "ifup ppp0" manually. Maybe.
< 1252234085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Applying settings will probably reload the network-manager-applet which will temporarily drop your wlan, it seems.)
< 1252234103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no luck, it just made my computer keep cycling connection to ethernet and phone crash again
< 1252234138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hhheh.
< 1252234150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did your phone reply to plain "AT" with "OK" in minicom?
< 1252234175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember, let me test
< 1252234226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes it does
< 1252234258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, that's pretty strange.
< 1252234290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could try with those nokia-specific initialization/dial commands. I'll try to see if I can figure out where you can put that stuff in the network-settings place.
< 1252234290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it shouldn't do that?
< 1252234305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, it should do that and then work properly. :p
< 1252234345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Anyway, "AT&FE0V1&D2&S0&C1S0=0+IFC=3,1" should be the magical init string for the modem, followed by >> AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","[access point name here]" << for more initialization, and finally "ATD*99***1#" to dial.
< 1252234356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I try that first one it seems minicom stops accepting any more input
< 1252234360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *do* get an OK
< 1252234377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then any key press does nothing, Ctrl-A Z opens the minicom menu thing still though
< 1252234403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it just stopped echoing
< 1252234417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the E0 possibly.
< 1252234433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can indeed try those commands in minicom.
< 1252234451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should spew out some binary stuff for PPP connection initialization after the ATD... command, if it works.
< 1252234453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well phone locked up at "ATD*99***1#"
< 1252234463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rrright. That's not good.
< 1252234466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it did spew some binary stuff
< 1252234505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite know what's making it lock up all the time.
< 1252234509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also on phone there is an icon for "data connection established", it is an E when connecting, and an E with a box around once the connection is established
< 1252234516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it got to the E but never to the box
< 1252234527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly this is significant
< 1252234553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think around where I am atm there is only GPRS, no 3G, and the phone falls back on GPRS if it can't find 3G
< 1252234599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that E thing is only for GPRS, while there is some kind of "3" symbol when there is full 3G around
< 1252234618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "G" for the N-gage (always, since it's GPRS only).
< 1252234624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it could be E for EDGE?
< 1252234625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252234631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is EDGE?
< 1252234655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDGE's a slight speed upgrade to GPRS.
< 1252234662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the same technology, I guess.
< 1252234662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is a "nokia 3210 classic" btw
< 1252234669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well possibly, I wouldn't know
< 1252234706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could try to see what the N-gage says if I minicom those strings into it, to see if it works. I'll have to do the rfcomm setup first, though.
< 1252234718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, rfcomm was easy
< 1252234738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: rfcomm bind 0
< 1252234742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where channel number is the DUN channel
< 1252234764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0 is what will be at the end of the device node
< 1252234774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rfcomm unbind 0
< 1252234777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to remove the interface
< 1252234778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1252234789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where MAC is the bluetooth one
< 1252234805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if phone is set to visible you can use hcitool scan to find it
< 1252234829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it did create rfcomm0 there. Will have to apt-get minicom first, though. :p
< 1252234847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh ok
< 1252235030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it picked up /dev/tty8 as the "serial port" by default, or something.
< 1252235040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah just edit it
< 1252235043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minicom -s
< 1252235048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and select to edit the relevant line
< 1252235055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252235134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I pointed it at rfcomm0 and started; the phone did the "bluetooth active and talking" icon for a second, then it went away and said "minicom: cannot open /dev/rfcomm0: No such file or directory". Maybe I typoed the address or something.
< 1252235152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, possibly you selected wrong channel?
< 1252235201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdptool search --baddr DUN
< 1252235212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can drop the baddr stuff if you make the phone visible
< 1252235228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252235232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be bdaddr
< 1252235234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not baddr
< 1252235263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mine it is channel 1
< 1252235313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks like it should be correct:
< 1252235318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1555961
< 1252235483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm weird
< 1252235497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1252235498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks ok
< 1252235505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says it is closed here too until I try to use it
< 1252235518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rfcomm connect 0 00:60:57:B8:DF:55 1" gives the "accept connection request?" dialog on the phone and connects properly, though.
< 1252235547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm I have my phone set to auto accept connections from my laptop (but of course not from anywhere else)
< 1252235551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I can give AT commands to the phone with minicom; but I have to keep that "rfcomm connect" running.
< 1252235579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't need to do that at all hm
< 1252235592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll check the commands. Though minicom did send some sort of automatic init string -- "AT S7=45 S0=0 L1 V1 X4 &c1 E1 Q0" -- which hopefully won't break anything.
< 1252235603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while minicom is running:
< 1252235606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# rfcomm
< 1252235606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rfcomm0: 00:21:AA:FC:F2:F4 channel 1 connected [tty-attached]
< 1252235612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, interesting
< 1252235625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't notice that before
< 1252235631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what that command does
< 1252235778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmn. Well, I got some binary stuff (which looked reasonably familiar, I think it's the PPP setup) but just the "G", not the "boxed G". Which sort-of makes sense; the PPP server is the phone, after all, and presumably it's going to wait until the PPP connection is formed before actually doing the GPRS call.
< 1252235805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did the phone lock up though?
< 1252235827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. I don't know what's up with that.
< 1252235868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the "G" symbol seems to be stuck there now. (Normally it's displaying just an "antenna" icon when nothing's connected.)
< 1252235912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, try power cycling the phone
< 1252235963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it went away after I browsed (with the phone browser) to google.com and then closed the browser. Silly stuff, though.
< 1252235994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll try that full dial-up networking connection too, just in case.
< 1252236041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, full dial up?
< 1252236426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, not just minicom commands.
< 1252236439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, it didn't seem to want to work. But it didn't seem to want to lock up either.
< 1252236444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for wvdial, it refuses to work without user/pass it seems
< 1252236468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's a bit silly. Though you can try entering "x" and "x" for both, it really shouldn't matter.
< 1252236512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok works
< 1252236557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no dhcp or anything
< 1252236566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't crash phone, and it connected (boxed E)
< 1252236582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should get IP and DNS from the PPP-specific protocol, I've forgotten the name.
< 1252236591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPPoE?
< 1252236595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1252236598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is for ADSL
< 1252236612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just some "part of PPP connection setup" thing.
< 1252236617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252236637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pppd is probably writing rather verbose logs (it has a habit) somewhere in /var/log.
< 1252236650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it works
< 1252236655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could ping google with it
< 1252236677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which cost 0.01 kr it seems
< 1252236700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well good to know it works, not that I will be using it a lot, just good to know I can if needed
< 1252236708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lockups are strange. Did you do any setup with wvdial, or was it just "defaults for everything except /dev/rfcomm0 as the modem port"?
< 1252236726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I used the relevant setup strings
< 1252236737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in:
< 1252236743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Init1 = AT&FE0V1&D2&S0&C1S0=0+IFC=3,1
< 1252236743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Init2 = AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","online.telia.se"
< 1252236743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dial Command = ATD
< 1252236743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phone = *99***1#
< 1252236774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, those. Hmm. Well, maybe I'll try to set that vwdial up too later, just in case I've forgotten the 3G stick home or something.
< 1252236782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, x for user/pass
< 1252236790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well 3G stick would be cheaper I bet
< 1252236815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for lockup I think the phone locked up between wvdial and ppp was done
< 1252236827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh I also had to set:
< 1252236828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid Mode = yes
< 1252236840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise wvdial was waiting for a non-existing login prompt
< 1252236842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems
< 1252236855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same 10 eur/month for both the 3G stick as well as any data over the phone; they're part of the same contract.
< 1252236862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252236906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the second SIM card (for the 3G stick) was free, though I had to sign up my soul to them for the next 24 months for that.
< 1252236936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't find any ppp log files, possibly it was the stuff that went to the terminal I ran wvdial in
< 1252236943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe.
< 1252236958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean things like:
< 1252236960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> pppd: F[7f]
< 1252236973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that sounds low-level enough.
< 1252236978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that means
< 1252237007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw "Arkleseizure"?
< 1252237010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That MultiSIM thing is really strange, though; if I were to stick that second SIM into a phone, any incoming calls would cause both phones to ring.
< 1252237051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answering one makes the others stop ringing. I wonder if there's some sort of race condition there.
< 1252237052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err=
< 1252237054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1252237072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what second sim? one for the 3G stick?
< 1252237077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252237085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm
< 1252237087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how weird
< 1252237112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you can use it in another phone if you want, it's this generic "do you have multiple phones? buy a 'secondary' SIM card" deal.
< 1252237150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple mobile phones? why
< 1252237175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second SIM card has a some sort of "technical" phone number, but logically they work under the "primary" SIM card number. (I.e. calls to that number go to both, when dialing out the receiver sees the primary number always, they share the same voicemail box, and so on.)
< 1252237192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and if one of the phones is busy, incoming calls still ring in the other phones.
< 1252237209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMS messages only go to the phone with the primary SIM card.
< 1252237216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know what sort of use case this is for.
< 1252237301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the ad-blurb (translated): "Do you have two mobile phones? For example a work phone and a party phone? Would you like to take a small and light phone with you when you go out to exercise, rather than your new multimedia phone? Or does your car perhaps have a fixed phone installation?"
< 1252237367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252237384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all sound a bit far-fetched to me; the only one that makes sense is this "want to get online from both the phone and the computer without messing around with internet-over-phone stuff" case.
< 1252237539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait hm, the max cost is 9 kr / dygn. And it says that the cost per MB is 20 kr. So that means you hit the max cost / dygn quite fast
< 1252237544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note! The MultiSIM service is personal, and you may not distribute the secondary SIM cards to a third person." Otherwise I think quite a lot of people would take the "5 mobile internet connections at a price of 1" deal.
< 1252237552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dygn = Swedish word for 24 hour period)
< 1252237591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just "day" (overloaded a bit) in English.
< 1252237616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 20 SEC in EUR
< 1252237617 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May 9, 2009 ... 2 EUR, = 3.11 CAD, 100 EUR, = 155.59 CAD. 5 EUR, = 7.78 CAD, 200 EUR, = 311.18 CAD. 10 EUR, = 15.56 CAD, 500 EUR, = 777.95 CAD. 20 EUR ...
< 1252237618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well day in English could be a 12 hour period as well
< 1252237624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, SEK.
< 1252237634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 20 SEK in EUR
< 1252237635 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 Swedish kronor = 1.95161087 Euros
< 1252237645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the SEC -> EUR thingy
< 1252237652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make a lot of sense
< 1252237672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it just picked some popular currencies when it didn't recognize SEC.
< 1252237698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's 1.5 EUR/MB here without a specific data plan thing.
< 1252237699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252237755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess that `calc is from Google?
< 1252237780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to miss the "Did you mean: 20 SEK in EUR" correction, and pick up the summary for a "Convert Euros to Canadian Dollars" page.
< 1252237799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252237810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it just looks for the first "X = Y" line on the page.
< 1252237994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prices really are a lot more reasonable nowdays than just half a year ago
< 1252238010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still pretty expensive
< 1252238093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 10 eur/month (well, 9.80/month to be exact) was pretty much the upper limit for me, since the Nebula ADSL we have at home is so awfully expensive.
< 1252238122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw the built in modem thingy doesn't seem to show up in linux at all. No great loss though
< 1252238185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's one of those winmodems, it's not much of a surprise. I think the iBook modem showed up as a serial port in Linux, though not sure about that.
< 1252238210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And "upper limit" in the "is willing to pay" sense, maybe not quite in the "can afford" sense.)
< 1252238260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how much do you use it btw?
< 1252238347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I don't know what:
< 1252238350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:03.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset MEI Controller (rev 07)
< 1252238350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is
< 1252238354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the modem?
< 1252238446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be related to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Technology maybe. No clue.
< 1252238489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be
< 1252238510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I probably don't use it enough to justify paying every month. I just got it as a preparation for an Android phone some day; those are a bit internet-dependent.
< 1252238521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Maps at 1.5 eur/MB doesn't sound like a win.
< 1252238574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except with that sort of "maximum price per day" thing, but we don't have that.
< 1252238603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I don't think any Finnish operator does it; many do "you pay only this much for telephone calls per day", but they've cleverly not included data in that.
< 1252238736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is no such thing for the calls, only for the data
< 1252238740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it is Telia here
< 1252238746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teila Refill to be exact
< 1252238762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so maybe Sonera (sp?) has it?
< 1252238793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that; Sonera is (or at least has traditionally been) one of the most expensive options here.
< 1252238818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same for Telia here. Reliable, good coverage, but expensive.
< 1252238833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is going down now, still I guess the other ones are less expensive
< 1252238896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sonera has recently removed all "named" deals; nowadays they just have that pre-paid thing, and then for "pay monthly" there's this "build your own GSM connection" thing, where you pick all kinds of options and it computes the final price.
< 1252238945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh...
< 1252238955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually yes, they indeed do have one max-price-per-day data thing.
< 1252238996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Data Tunti" (where fi:tunti == en:hour) -- you pay 0.90 EUR/hour for data, with a maximum of 6.90 EUR for a 24 hour period.
< 1252239033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252239033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the 6.90 EUR/day is a lot more than your 20 SEK -> ~1.95 EUR.
< 1252239048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wait, 9 SEK/day?
< 1252239055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep. 20 SEK was per MB. But 9 SEK max per 24 hour period
< 1252239056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then it's really a lot more than that.
< 1252239117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, though, calls are pretty expensive. More so than when I first got this it seems.
< 1252239122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, they have (and this must be a new thing, wasn't there less than a year ago) also a "Data Päivä" (fi:päivä == en:day), where you pay 2.90 EUR at the start of each 24-hour data-use period.
< 1252239135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm
< 1252239149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://www.telia.se/files/iSurfMiniMidiMaxi_TSP1543_priser_07aug.pdf
< 1252239151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252239151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1252239153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong one
< 1252239157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.telia.se/files/TeliaRefill_1139_3april.pdf
< 1252239159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I meant
< 1252239209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Sonera only does this custom-option-pickery, I don't have a good price sheet to point at. The web-based customizer looks a bit Finnish-only.
< 1252239211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems that data is the only cheap thing on it
< 1252239232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite the reverse of when I first got it
< 1252239241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird they didn't tell their customers about that
< 1252239280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 0.69 SEK in EUR
< 1252239281 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.69 Swedish kronor = 0.0673305752 Euros
< 1252239283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... data isn't exactly cheap either. What was it you paid
< 1252239290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 EUR / month or?
< 1252239296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.80 EUR/month, yes.
< 1252239308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 9.80 EUR to SEK
< 1252239309 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.80 Euros = 100.429856 Swedish kronor
< 1252239321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much cheaper than mine would be if I used it every day
< 1252239323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for data
< 1252239332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I'm likely to use it very often for that
< 1252239335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, that's obviously optimized for sporadic use.
< 1252239359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Sonera's 2.90 EUR/24 hours. They have an about-10 EUR/month option too.
< 1252239361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and the 0.69 thing is "within a month after you refilled the account"
< 1252239371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it is the cost inside the parentheses
< 1252239390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 1.99 SEK in EUR
< 1252239391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's clever.
< 1252239392 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.99 Swedish kronor = 0.194185282 Euros
< 1252239398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite a bit worse
< 1252239399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and this 9.80 EUR is with a 384 kbps speed limit, though; the faster options cost more.
< 1252239488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mine is for 1 mbps limit iirc
< 1252239546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite remember how much I pay for calls, since they no longer sell this limit.
< 1252239589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The calls are reasonably expensive (something like 0.069 eur/minute, which is pretty close to that 0.69 SEK actually) but there's no monthly charge at all. (Except for this data add-on service.)
< 1252239589 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252239610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and they seem to do it for whole minutes. As in... anything less than one minute still cost one minute
< 1252239619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and between 1 and 2 minutes cost 2 minutes
< 1252239638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no monthly charge at all here either
< 1252239664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-paid ones tend not to have one.
< 1252239673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it seems that in August (when I got this mobile Internet) I used it for 96 separate connections, totaling about 27 hours, and moved 66488 kilobytes of data.
< 1252239688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66488 kb ... that would be
< 1252239698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 MB?
< 1252239701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the 1.5 EUR/MB cost, that's 97.39 EUR.
< 1252239704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during 27 hours?
< 1252239720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't you say it was fixed to 10 EUR?
< 1252239736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, s/'s/ would be/
< 1252239751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252239812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my phone claims I so far received 5024540 bytes
< 1252239817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I bought it
< 1252239832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the N-Gage keeps a running count, unfortunately.
< 1252239836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send 1152056 bytes
< 1252239871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, total connected time: two hours, 58 minutes and 32 seconds
< 1252239881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is slightly less than a year old
< 1252239889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a year - 2 months or so
< 1252239972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, can't seem to find such statistics in this phone. Aw.
< 1252239990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no.
< 1252239998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is in the same menu as called numbers, missed calls and such
< 1252240004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "GPRS data counter" in the "missed calls" menu, indeed.
< 1252240013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds about right
< 1252240021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All sent data: 6.17 MB", "All receiv. data: 19.31 MB".
< 1252240039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had this for at least five years now.
< 1252240060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was that the same plan as your 3G usb stick thing or?
< 1252240082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, same connection, but the phone can't count that of course.
< 1252240108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1252240121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think data was something like 10 EUR/MB when I bought the phone, didn't really use it back then.
< 1252240252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All calls: 41 hours, 52 minutes, 23 seconds.
< 1252240262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The firmware upgrade probably reset these counters anyway.
< 1252240308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1252240323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I wonder if you can get internet over bluetooth the other way around
< 1252240330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, phone connecting to laptop
< 1252240340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that once.
< 1252240344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be useful for expensive firmware upgrades
< 1252240350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though to a desktop, not laptop.
< 1252240353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expensive as in: will easily hit the 9 kr
< 1252240361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, my desktop lacks bluetooth
< 1252240369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway: how?
< 1252240383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does mine, but I had borrowed an USB stick for it.
< 1252240384 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252240405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well ok, how anyway?
< 1252240445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I don't remember the details. There was a *really* strange kludge involving an imaginary ".mrouter" TLD; Nokia phones use DNS queries to that to see if they're running under the PC Suite thing.
< 1252240493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah...
< 1252240494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1252240504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well probably not worth the trouble then
< 1252240509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bwestermann.privat.t-online.de/3650linux_en.html seems to be about it; probably very obsoleted, and bad English.
< 1252240586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also not work on newer phones: http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35332
< 1252240614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course it could be completely different for different models.
< 1252240670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah...
< 1252240909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Symbian phones I think there was some app. The PPP connection between the computer and the phone of course doesn't care which way the bits flow, but some sort of kludge is needed to (a) make the phone not close the connection when you're not making it connect to the Internet over GPRS/etc., and (b) to set up a default route with the computer as a gateway.
< 1252240925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think this is a symbian one
< 1252240958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't constantly reboot, it probably isn't. :p
< 1252240965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so that's more of a N-Gage problem.)
< 1252241035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to find a "3210 classic" from Nokia's device specs. There is a 3120 classic, though.
< 1252241049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(S40 5th edition FP1.)
< 1252241177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the PAN-AP thing is not listed in the "Bluetooth Profiles" list (A2DP, AVRCP, DUN, FTP, GAP, GAVDP, GOEP, HFP, HSP, OPP, SAP, SDAP, SPP; I don't know what most of those mean) for 3120 classic, so if that's your phone, it probably doesn't support the PAN approach for interweb sharing at least officially.
< 1252241332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err 3120 classic was what I meant
< 1252241343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it use symbian?
< 1252241349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a S40 phone.
< 1252241357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what does that mean exactly?
< 1252241393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Nokia term; most of their phones are S40 (non-Symbian, custom proprietary OS) or S60 (Symbian).
< 1252241402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Series 40" and "Series 60" officially.
< 1252241430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the S40 OS is called "Nokia OS" in the specs; I think it had some silly internal codename too.
< 1252241449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/3120_classic
< 1252241606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only Symbian phones in the 3xxx series seem to be 3230, 3250, 3600, 3620, 3650 and 3660, all pretty old (2003-2005).
< 1252241623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252241671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway you say it is more advanced than the S60 one?
< 1252241677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that one you have
< 1252241693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is symbian not propietary?
< 1252241741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so, maybe "internal" or something like that would be a better word. You can buy a Symbian license; you can't buy a "Nokia OS" license.
< 1252241796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess the first question depends on the precise definition of "advanced". This N-gage might be a bit more "programmable" (you can write native-code apps for it; it's just J2ME on S40 phones) but certainly yours has a lot of features that this doesn't. (Like 3G.)
< 1252241817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252241826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and 30 MB flash built in or so
< 1252241833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't have a micro sd card for it
< 1252241861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, fat load of good the programmability does me: *no-one* supports the "1st Edition" S60 devices any more, only from 3rd edition upwards.
< 1252241899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252241930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how would one write J2ME apps without ending up killing one self though?
< 1252241935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible
< 1252241937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even open-source folks bother to support it any longer. I have to use an outdated copy of PuTTY because the couple of newest versions no longer support it.
< 1252241952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't you update the OS on it?
< 1252241955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't think J2ME is that bad. I mean, compared to Symbian development it's pure pleasure.
< 1252241959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252241968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh symbian development is worse?
< 1252241980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbian development is legendary in painfulness.
< 1252242018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252242029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can't even flash the firmware on the N-gage without specialized hardware, if you could magically get a N-gage firmware with a newer Symbian version, which you can't.
< 1252242036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is there any putty for my phone though? would be quite nice to have, though rather useless
< 1252242053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no PuTTY port, but there's a J2ME SSH client, sure.
< 1252242058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1252242063 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/
< 1252242070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should work just fine in your phone.
< 1252242076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trustability?
< 1252242094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it open source?
< 1252242118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's GPL.
< 1252242125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to find the source link right now though.
< 1252242170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's at the end of the download page, I'm just selectively blind.
< 1252242196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it either
< 1252242211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/downloadversion.php?version=1.7.3 and at the end, for example.
< 1252242225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252242234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the devel version. Of course reading the source doesn't really help unless you build it yourself, so you'd need the J2ME SDK stuff.
< 1252242263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should one select devel or stable hm
< 1252242283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and, jar or jad file? for cost reasons I hope I can transfer this over bluetooth
< 1252242290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the file protocol thingy (which works)
< 1252242316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.jar, then.
< 1252242337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on my phone you can just file-transfer a .jar and it'll launch the app-installer.
< 1252242345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252242370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that file transfer ftp like or file transfer "mount phone as a directory" like?
< 1252242392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also is there no ssh2 only build ?
< 1252242418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I've just used the "send file to device" OS X bluetooth thing; it speaks OBEX internally.
< 1252242456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file arrives as a "message" then. If your phone has a file browser app, though, you can probably just transfer it however you like and "launch" it.
< 1252242468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aren't jar just zip files?
< 1252242503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when I try to open it I get: "Invalid crc on data descriptor 0/134695760 on midpssh-full.jar"
< 1252242512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zip files with some specially handled file names (in the MANIFEST directory), yes.
< 1252242514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.
< 1252242527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which version was this?
< 1252242539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stable full
< 1252242582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/v1.6.0/midpssh-full.jar + "unzip -l midpssh-full.jar" looks fine to me.
< 1252242618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not with unzip, I was trying advzip to compress it better, which tends to work for every other jar file I tried it on
< 1252242636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests with unzip
< 1252242656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unzip works, how strange
< 1252242688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically in a .jar file the META-INF directory needs to be first, but I guess advzip wouldn't go change the file order anyway.
< 1252242707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm, well java -jar foo.jar after always worked
< 1252242718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 495 Defl:N 500 867670159% 02-27-07 20:32 171efe4a small.png <-- that looks a bit wrong
< 1252242727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few more like that
< 1252242727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I don't think apps really care about it.
< 1252242770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 495 Defl:N 500 -1% 2007-02-27 20:32 171efe4a small.png
< 1252242774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what my "unzip" says.
< 1252242780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252242791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was a bit off there
< 1252242825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .png files indeed have a bit larger compressed size. Optimally they wouldn't be deflate-compressed at all.
< 1252242848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, and the pngs would first be optimially compressed with optipng and advpng
< 1252242869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though some apps tend to throw up on 4 bit gray scale pngs and such
< 1252242874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so might not be a good idea always ;)
< 1252242894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I love how complex png actually is)
< 1252242904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 30 MB of flash (and something like a megabyte-or-two Java heap) I don't think you should care *that* much about a 121164-byte .jar.
< 1252242927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't put a gigabyte-or-a-couple microSD card in the phone?
< 1252242983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nop
< 1252243015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I remember having problems running non-signed jars in my phone hm
< 1252243342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, can it do public key auth?
< 1252243575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I seem unable to specify a non-standard port too
< 1252243597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really used it, just heard of it.
< 1252243653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The S60 port of PuTTY does public-key auth, fortunately. I'm not sure about MidpSSH; J2ME apps can't really access the phone filesystem freely, IIRC, so it'd have to have some sort of own key-store thing.
< 1252243703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not listed on the "Features" page.
< 1252243733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use Public Key - for SSH 2 connections you can opt to use public key / private key authentication rather than a password."
< 1252243738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it should support that.
< 1252243748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/wiki/public-key
< 1252243795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the non-standard port bit doesn't seem to work though
< 1252243810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"now available", doesn't say which version it refers to. And doesn't support passphrases in the public key yet. :p
< 1252243831 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252243835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1252243852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you should be able to use just "host:1234" as the hostname to connect to port 1234.
< 1252243868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, tried that
< 1252243886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just timed out, and yes I know it works because I done it from uni with my laptop
< 1252243896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, based on http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/wiki/using-sessions it's supported. Feel free to check sources whether that feature too is only in the devel version. :p
< 1252243910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must prepare some food. →
< 1252243948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well ssh keys was in stable it seemed
< 1252244118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if that is genuine Quenya
< 1252244150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it has anything to do with balrogs
< 1252244252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm Valarauko does mean that
< 1252244335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but the phrase itself only gives iwc
< 1252244369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm just the word hirdinya in fact
< 1252244408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the dev version works better
< 1252244503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact all the words i tested _expect_ valarauko only exists on that page, so i take it DMM just made something to sound right
< 1252244517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*except
< 1252244535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-s
< 1252244688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and iirc quenya transliteration doesn't use ë except at the end of words
< 1252244718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tolkien used it only so english-speakers wouldn't make it silent iirc)
< 1252245769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, didn't the annotation say it was Tengwar or whatever
< 1252245783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252245784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that the script?
< 1252245788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that he didn't use
< 1252245794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tengwar is the script, which he _didn't_ use
< 1252245795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "Quenya" the language?
< 1252245808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it definitely resembles quenya
< 1252245839 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252245841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you realise saying that makes you look incredibly nerdy?
< 1252245852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so?
< 1252245852 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252245861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though not as much as if you was able to speak it fluently)
< 1252245876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i even used to subscribe to the conlang list
< 1252245904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252245920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately i'm much too lazy to actually _learn_ it ;)
< 1252246422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that a good thing?
< 1252246515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes me slightly less nerdy? :D
< 1252246576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is that a good thing?
< 1252246686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, bunnies!
< 1252246692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1252246725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252246730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1252247840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally there's a thread on the iwc forum where they are discussing who is geekiest. sample: "I mentioned to a friend at an SCA event the other day that I'd translated lines from Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog into the Black Speech for use by my half-orc D&D character."
< 1252247974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that was just the beginning of his post)
< 1252248030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh
< 1252248172 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252249007 0 :fizzieg!n=fis@85.76.204.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252249054 0 :fizzieg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Incidentally, one of the reasons why this net-over-phone might not have worked was that I was trying to use the APN "saunalahti.internet" when the correct would have been "internet.saunalahti".
< 1252249107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252249118 0 :fizzieg!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252249195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those pesky finns have got internet in their saunas!
< 1252249268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:lahti is also en:bay, in the geographical sense. So, "the Sauna Bay".
< 1252249315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a very common place-name, actually, what with all the saunas around and all. I think there are at least four of them, probably many more.
< 1252249447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, secure auth by first public key and then enforced password. (all thus using a restricted user)
< 1252249463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/thus/this/
< 1252249856 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252249930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:44:57 wow, I just realised how terribly awful http://windows7sins.org/#1 is from a graphics design point of view
< 1252249931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking hell that's ugly
< 1252249940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like one of those one-page sites where they get you to buy a get-rich book
< 1252249942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly /and/ unusable
< 1252249957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to top it, the content isn't particularly good either
< 1252249978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can anti-donate from the FSF
< 1252249985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, transfer $10 from the FSF to the EFF
< 1252249996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252250005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think that the FSF are paid by Microsoft to spread FUD so obvious it backfires?
< 1252250022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would explain the free software song
< 1252250028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOOOOOOOIN US NOW AND SHARE THE SOFTWARE
< 1252250039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that awful Stephen Fry documentary?
< 1252250063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how it was Freedom Fry when he's british
< 1252250076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:32:05 w00t clean Ubuntu install is nice :)
< 1252250076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:32:22 I should seriously consider doing this every 6 months, rather than upgrading
< 1252250076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing something severely fucked up to your upgradees...
< 1252250150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:58:52 ais523, any idea how to connect to internet using your phone in ubuntu?
< 1252250152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bluetooth
< 1252250157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvs
< 1252250169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:59:16 I don't see why people would assume i do
< 1252250169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:59:18 *I do
< 1252250170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everyone does
< 1252250221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on ubuntu it's easy
< 1252250222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252250223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on xp
< 1252250231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connect via bluetooth, then connect to → bluetooth
< 1252250236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1252250264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, read the whole discussion with fizzie below before commenting on that :P
< 1252250270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252250287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your loss
< 1252250287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:16:35 but I imagine phone-tethering would be hard to develop, as most networks ban it
< 1252250288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:16:37 rather expensive, too
< 1252250288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expensive how
< 1252250298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call charges
< 1252250299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iphone 3g s has tethering, but not in the us/AT&T
< 1252250321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:17:16 Er, it's a fixed 10 eur/month for unlimited data.
< 1252250321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:17:31 wow, your mobile operators are much less rip-offy than the ones over here
< 1252250321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well...
< 1252250337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get a practically-unlimited-for-light-stuff contract for £25/mo
< 1252250341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with unlimited 3g interwebs
< 1252250397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also you can have a pay-as-you-go + £10/mo unlim 3g internet
< 1252250494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:40:01 chi.mp seems to be giving out "free" (haven't read the details) .mp domains.
< 1252250494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only host an openid thingy on them tho
< 1252250511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:41:13 oh, quite a few TLDs have been taken over commercially, now
< 1252250511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:41:22 which IMO is making a mockery of the Internet
< 1252250511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like everything else involving money and the internet since the 70s, right?
< 1252250520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes
< 1252250520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be a pretty damn big mock by now for you
< 1252250526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is
< 1252250575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some talk about a website in the .mp, but I really didn't bother to read the details.
< 1252250666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is disappointed hum.an doesn't exist
< 1252250823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.an?
< 1252250860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Netherlands Antilles"
< 1252250872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so stop using it and stop whining
< 1252250887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh.. netherlands is .nl iirc, so what is this "Netherlands Antilles"?
< 1252250895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you have to be from there to register, but it's strange no one there thought of it...
< 1252250896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mostly don't use most of the bits I don't like
< 1252250904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason I whine is because I rather enjoy it
< 1252250906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ever heard of colonialism?
< 1252250911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's annoying.
< 1252250928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's two islands in the Caribbean; that seems to often be the case.
< 1252250944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Netherlands Antilles was scheduled to be dissolved as a unified political entity on December 15, 2008, so that the five constituent islands would attain new constitutional statuses within the Kingdom of the Netherlands,[3] but this dissolution has been postponed to an indefinite future date which will at the latest be October 2010." -- maybe that's why people don't like their TLD.
< 1252250951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I would have assumed they dropped the name of the parasite country when they became a separate country. And would have used the same TLD if not a separate country
< 1252250976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :country TLDs are so stupid
< 1252251014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autonomous regions of one country often have their own ccTLDs. land has .ax, to pick a nearby example.
< 1252251015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing they can usefully classify non-arbitrarily is single-country organisations (and you never know when an organisation will spread), and they break every single domain in them if the country disappears, unless they're persuaded to not drop it
< 1252251107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a 3g internet service with free roaming, dammit :P
< 1252251109 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252251120 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252251176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't sell .ax domains to any non-land-related companies/individuals, though. I don't think I've happened across an .ax site ever.
< 1252251202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who use country TLDs for personal stuff amuse me
< 1252251210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am never ever ever going to move!"
< 1252251245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, fl.ax exists :D
< 1252251245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I wish people would stop linking to http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
< 1252251254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the business model it outlines is utterly impractical and useless...
< 1252251312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was some talk in engadget-mobile referring to some US operator with data plans that included roaming (but 3G only in the States, only GPRS when roaming, and I don't know how unlimited-data the roaming parts were).
< 1252251320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :str.ax doesn't...
< 1252251338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my crapbook thing has that awful gprs/ie thing
< 1252251347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wonder if the gprs can be used for non-IE-server stuff?
< 1252251351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Finnish operators roaming-GPRS tends to cost some really absurd amount of money, like well over 10 eur/MB.
< 1252251359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares, I'd rather pay £10/mo for 3g
< 1252251370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, roaming, grumble
< 1252251384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point of mobile internet is to make location irrelevant imo
< 1252251403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you move within your little box, yes.
< 1252251404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey!
< 1252251405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/06/new-thinkpad-keyboard-features-crowdsourced-design-lower-price/
< 1252251411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New ThinkPad desktop keyboard thing.
< 1252251416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny how I was talking about it yesterday.
< 1252251424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you are saying that ccTLDs only make sense for stuff like governments and such?
< 1252251440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least they usually don't spread)
< 1252251442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much. and local branches of international metaorganisations, maybe
< 1252251454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "Fishermen International" has a group "Fishermen Ireland
< 1252251454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1252251458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about something like BBC?
< 1252251460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then fishermen.ie would make sense
< 1252251469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's a governmental organisation, more or less
< 1252251477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok
< 1252251478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a few degrees of seperation
< 1252251544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no touchpad hm
< 1252251551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a mouse :P
< 1252251560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the trackpoint is a boon when typing ofc
< 1252251576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and I prefer a keyboard that is less shallow
< 1252251596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense
< 1252251610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who likes desktops anyway :P
< 1252251691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for long term use I prefer a computer I don't have to look down at to see the screen. Maybe a laptop with a monitor on some sort of extendable hydralic arm or such?
< 1252251702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can plug displays into notebooks
< 1252251728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and flatten down the screen to use the kb/nub/pad
< 1252251729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes sure, but also a full sized keyboard is nice when typing for long periods.
< 1252251739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkpad keyboards are full sized
< 1252251746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keys are the same size as on a desktop keyboard
< 1252251792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes mostly, Ctrl/Alt and space are not full sized for example
< 1252251801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on the older ones
< 1252251807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they needed to fit the arrow keys in on the same row kind of
< 1252251820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus Fn
< 1252251833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they dropped one windows key to be able to do it
< 1252251849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/3072.jpg
< 1252251866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252251886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one drops both windows keys and the menu key to manage it
< 1252251896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: use fn as an extra modifier
< 1252251904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, most of the keys have no fn action
< 1252251908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use it for them
< 1252251918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any menu key on this keyboard and I've had zero problems, too
< 1252251922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc impossible, fn generates no key event to computer I think... let me check
< 1252251930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it does on the older ones :P
< 1252251957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/b/b4/ThinkPadX60.jpg ;; this was the machine the uni battery guy had, right?
< 1252251962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the most famous ones, I'm pretty sure
< 1252251973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prolly the only IBM one to hit 14hrs...
< 1252251978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it does, but BIOS intercepts some, such that Fn-PgUp generates no key event apart from Fn
< 1252251983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PgUp is the thinklight)
< 1252251997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not BIOS
< 1252251998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure, but it's a minority of keys that have a fn action
< 1252252000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some part anyway
< 1252252001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use it for all the oters
< 1252252091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, what about escape key relative F keys... that is one thing I often typo, hitting F2 when I mean F1, because F1 is where Esc is usually
< 1252252114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/shrug
< 1252252116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I'll adjust
< 1252252131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need the main block of keys, enter, backspace, delete and modifiers most of the time
< 1252252140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'll probably map Fn-Backspace to delete for easiness)
< 1252252150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it still doesn't solve the issue with feeling I mentioned above. I much prefer keys that goes down further (like traditional desktop keyboards)
< 1252252161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you're crazy,
< 1252252163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, thinkpads have great keyboards compared to many other laptops
< 1252252171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they have great keyboards full stop.
< 1252252191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on if you prefer full depth or shallow ones.
< 1252252242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logitech illuminated Fn key doesn't generate anything visible to the computer, which is a bit of a shame.
< 1252252259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: scissor-switch right? buy the thinkpad keynub! :P
< 1252252261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:45] ehird: http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/b/b4/ThinkPadX60.jpg ;; this was the machine the uni battery guy had, right?
< 1252252264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:
< 1252252293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mmh nop don't think so. Hard to say from the pic
< 1252252298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it had touchpad
< 1252252299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely
< 1252252303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as trackpoint
< 1252252307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just switched keyboards, I think I'm going to have to use that at least until I break its spacebar too.
< 1252252325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly T60, or T61 if it was widescreen
< 1252252331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I can tell you on friday, same course then.
< 1252252345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were the point's buttons red, i wonder
< 1252252359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so then it'd be T43
< 1252252419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you could show me the left side of it closer I could tell better I think.
< 1252252425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I saw that most of the time
< 1252252430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea
< 1252252439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it definitely didn't have a floppy, not sure if that one there does
< 1252252444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit hard to tell from the pic
< 1252252445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell no :)
< 1252252456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they've ever had floppies
< 1252252464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just think that any ultrabay battery must be really heavy if it changes 5 1/2 hours into 14
< 1252252471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I doubt it's a T-series, really
< 1252252475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err 9 into 14
< 1252252480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I said that
< 1252252487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 hours with the 9-cell?
< 1252252492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely an X series.
< 1252252496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well maybe it was 10 cell then
< 1252252500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever.
< 1252252501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same.
< 1252252519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was sticking out quite a bit, so possibly more than 9 cell
< 1252252526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter
< 1252252534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T43 gets 5 1/2 hours on the 9 cell
< 1252252539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one card reader slot above a pc card slot on the right side
< 1252252541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar for the T60
< 1252252544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it can't possibly be a T series
< 1252252563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it wasn't http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/b/b4/ThinkPadX60.jpg because it did have a touchpad.
< 1252252584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then he was lying to you about the battery life :
< 1252252585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252252607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there any step above 9 cell?
< 1252252631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, like, up to 12-cell. Regardless, 5 1/2 hours on 9 cell != 9 hours on 12 cell
< 1252252658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, might have been 12-cell then,
< 1252252669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have misremembered that bit
< 1252252670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't a T series.
< 1252252679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the X series, which has no touchpads, gets that much battery.
< 1252252685 0 :xfire35!n=xfire35@cpc2-pete3-0-0-cust800.pete.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252252714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, design looked very similar to my R500, the whole thing was slightly smaller (looked like maybe 14" instead of 15.4") and the battery was sticking out quite a bit
< 1252252728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may have been 15" normalscreen.
< 1252252759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/9343.jpg
< 1252252765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://macbitz.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/thinkpad-t601.jpg
< 1252252766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly, but definitely not 4:3
< 1252252774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/4/4b/Thinkpad.jpg
< 1252252778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Are you sure
< 1252252778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252252790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then
< 1252252794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.landbiksen.dk/catalog/images/5153-IMG7415s.jpg
< 1252252796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1252252802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vernontech.ca/uploads/lenovo_thinkpad_t61.jpg
< 1252252819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/9343.jpg <-- not too much off, but don't remember the bit that is sticking out on the right side of the screen
< 1252252828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See links after "If so, then"
< 1252252922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/4/4b/Thinkpad.jpg <-- looks quite similar, but less widescreen? http://www.landbiksen.dk/catalog/images/5153-IMG7415s.jpg <-- PC card slots are off, it had one pc card slot and above that a card reader which was not part of a pc-card. Also that seems to have a thicker boarder for the screen?
< 1252252954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe the thicker boarder is just doe to the angle of the picture
< 1252252970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/4/4b/Thinkpad.jpg is not after "If so, then".
< 1252252974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/4/4b/Thinkpad.jpg is the 4:3 T60.
< 1252252993 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252253009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, can you wait until friday, I will try to see what the model number is then ;P
< 1252253024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm convinced it either doesn't exist or you're misremembering.
< 1252253088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I could be misremembering that it was a ibm and not a lenovo (and didn't some early lenovo ones still have the ibm logo on them?)
< 1252253114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it was actually a live goat and not a laptop at all?
< 1252253115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the latest two models or so don't have the IBM logo, whereas Lenovo has owned it since 2004/2005.
< 1252253124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there are many Lenovo-manufactured models that have the IBM logo on them.
< 1252253140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. Mine doesn't have the IBM logo btw
< 1252253175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, show me pics of 9 cell and 12 cell and I'll tell you which of those it was
< 1252253180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea.
< 1252253208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless that ultrabay battery back weighs like a kilo, no way a trackpad-having ThinkPad gets that much battery, though.
< 1252253227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the trackpad uses a lot of energy?
< 1252253256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's just that the X series is the only one that could handle that sort of battery life.
< 1252253261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they don't have trackpads.
< 1252253276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Have you seen http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/PC110?
< 1252253278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so SMALL!
< 1252253292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pic with scale: http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~linma/gif/ibm_palmtop_pc110.gif
< 1252253301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is the top not flat?
< 1252253302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual photo: http://www.mobile-diary.com/pc110/pc110_5.jpg
< 1252253316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No idea, but jeez!
< 1252253325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine that keyboard. Ouch.
< 1252253330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta be worse than the iPhone's.
< 1252253347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~linma/gif/ibm_palmtop_pc110.gif is Droste.
< 1252253362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah ouch
< 1252253372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute, though.
< 1252253377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also really pointless.
< 1252253378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also cute.
< 1252253379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that last link
< 1252253384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the meny system thingy on it
< 1252253397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some proprietary bootup thing, I think. It also runs Windows.
< 1252253403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And DOS, and Linux and BSD.
< 1252253411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also very thick.
< 1252253432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So's your..." and so on.
< 1252253475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two completion to that that come to mind and only one is an insult. Although the other is mildly disturbing.
< 1252253508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... I can only think of one
< 1252253517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is your cat? right?
< 1252253565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1252253606 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252253607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah I know what the other one is! "goldfish"
< 1252253608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly
< 1252253634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo goldfish so fat, she doesn't fit in a standard-sized goldfish bowl.
< 1252253652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an insult!
< 1252253691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yo momma so fat, she's slightly above the standard BMI!"
< 1252253698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wife's family have this Toshiba T1000 PC "laptop", it's so very portable: http://www.myoldcomputers.com/museum/comp/museumpics/toshibat1000a.jpg
< 1252253711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What, really?
< 1252253712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1252253722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me they actually use it.
< 1252253741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640x200 screen and all. And a 256-kilobyte ROM chip (with ms-dos 2.something) in place of a HD; but you can use floppies for storage.
< 1252253767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was something wrong with it last I heard, but it wasn't very many years ago when we played a bit of Tetris on it.
< 1252253775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it has a graphical screen? Amazing.
< 1252253777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't exactly say it'd be in *active* use right now though.
< 1252253787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That keyboard is probably buckling-spring.
< 1252253787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252253808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably membrane or dome
< 1252253814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CGA-compatible monochrome screen, but graphical, yes.
< 1252253816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That old?
< 1252253817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it
< 1252253823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, awesome people used this: http://www.computercloset.org/Apple_Macintosh_Portable.jpg
< 1252253826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any network or such?
< 1252253831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got a trackball and button and all.
< 1252253837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's dinky!
< 1252253838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what do you mean... non-graphical screen?
< 1252253841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1252253847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, like VT100.
< 1252253862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Macintosh Portable was also stylish! All whit eand all.
< 1252253863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text-only.
< 1252253869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it ran system 6 up to system 7.5.
< 1252253870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's a serial port.
< 1252253875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had a 16Mhz processor!
< 1252253879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm that's a bit too slow
< 1252253881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus you had a whole 1MiB of RAM.
< 1252253882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Alongside the earlier T1100 and T1200 systems, the Toshiba T1000 helped to change the image of portable computing. Before the T1100, previous supposedly portable computers were large and unwieldy." Fortunately that's not unwieldy at all.
< 1252253889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even expandable to 9MiB or 8MiB if it's the backlight version.
< 1252253891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You think the CPU could handle anything faster? :-P
< 1252253894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so high-spec, isn't it?
< 1252253898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even had a hard disk!
< 1252253900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but wasn't the CRT itself technically able to render graphics, just the hardware wasn't able to be told to do so?
< 1252253903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it had a modem inside.
< 1252253908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that the difference matters)
< 1252253917 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That T1000 had the standard 4.77 MHz.. well, it's a 80C86, but compatible anyway. And 512 kB of RAM.
< 1252253918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: True, I guess.
< 1252253918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right
< 1252253933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: See? The Macintosh Portable was way superior. And came out in 1989. :-P
< 1252253934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course it could be non-graphical like a cheap calculator
< 1252253938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad it cost $6,500 for the base model.
< 1252253939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with fixed segments
< 1252253952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The T1000 came out in 1987, so it's understandable it's a bit less powerful.
< 1252253964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it had a good display.
< 1252253965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't the macintosh portable WAY heavier?
< 1252253974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 16 pounds
< 1252253980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 16 pounds in kg
< 1252253981 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 pounds = 7.25747792 kilograms
< 1252253990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that Toshiba looks lighter
< 1252253995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt the other one was much less luggable.
< 1252254013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe I misjudged the scale...
< 1252254018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really matter at that point, considering you can't really carry it.
< 1252254022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're about the same size.
< 1252254037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one has a tracball on the side too
< 1252254043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But its keyboard is smaller.
< 1252254044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly smaller keyboard though
< 1252254045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pc-museum.com/gallery/rcm-061-big-Macintosh-portable.jpg -- it does look a lot kewler.
< 1252254045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252254057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there was a picture already.
< 1252254060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Totally.
< 1252254079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my plan when asking for network was:
< 1252254087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thin client
< 1252254103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with serial it wouldn't be usable even as that
< 1252254106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's usable as a serial terminal.
< 1252254113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, it'd be easier to plug in a monitor and keyboard to the server. :P
< 1252254133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does that Toshiba have a fan in it?
< 1252254135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes, but I was thinking something that was low end graphical, something that 10 mbps Ethernet could have handled
< 1252254138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet the Macintosh Portable didn't!
< 1252254154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Steve Jobs hated fans. Which is why the Mac kept frying.
< 1252254157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know, could be either way.
< 1252254174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have a VT510, but it burned out. :/
< 1252254203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An awesome piece of hardware, did some sort of 132x50 tiny-font display and everything.
< 1252254207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dec.vecmar.com/products/productpage.asp?pid=2660-DEC_VT_510_Terminal
< 1252254208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$219
< 1252254211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not exactly a rarity :P
< 1252254212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there is a useless indention in the "screen" (technically not the screen, but the area around it) on that mac... I mean one is for the trackball
< 1252254215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the other one is useless
< 1252254231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For shutting it?
< 1252254235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows.
< 1252254241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks nicer symmetrical.
< 1252254245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah maybe
< 1252254251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a GreenArrays chip. I'd write a little OS thingy for it. :P
< 1252254264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it's not rare, but I don't think I can justify getting another.
< 1252254278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it did color, though, unlike the VT525. (Might be remembering wrongly too.)
< 1252254284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here's a comparison of GA32 and 2 GA4 packages. We're testing chips and making mock-ups for possible applications. Hopefully mock-ups will help raise funds for real boards. Testing, of course, goes on forever."
< 1252254284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://colorforth.com/G32-G4.jpg
< 1252254286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow they're small.
< 1252254298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's what she said to the FSM.)
< 1252254304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSM?
< 1252254324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, how long would a 9 cell battery last with those?
< 1252254339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... how fast are they?
< 1252254349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flying Spaghetti Monster
< 1252254352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And who knows.
< 1252254355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course they aren't intended for the same purpose)
< 1252254360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not very on their own, you assemble them into a supercomputer.
< 1252254362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bunch of them in one.
< 1252254367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252254369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're unclocked, so they all run at different speed.
< 1252254371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*speeds
< 1252254377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(native silicon speed, pretty much)
< 1252254390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://colorforth.com/haypress2.jpg is an assembled littleputer thingy.
< 1252254417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't you need clock for some stuff? Like making sure avoiding metastable state and such.
< 1252254424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm no expert on this though)
< 1252254433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chuck Moore is clever. he'll have fixed it
< 1252254435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ask ais523.
< 1252254438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He knows that kind of stuff.
< 1252254446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1252254516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you needed some kind of speed limiting to make some components work by making sure they didn't settle into a meta stable state or whatever. "flip-flops"?
< 1252254558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know ... whatever I was going to ask
< 1252254575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably
< 1252254603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1252254716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think ehird's question is still an unsolved problem.
< 1252254890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so's your mom/
< 1252254892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/
< 1252254909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disasters! yay!!
< 1252254993 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-43-236.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252255043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm curious as to an answer to AnMaster's q too
< 1252255118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's not the first clockless CPU design; there have been other working-but-experimental models.
< 1252255145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sorry, I've been afk for a while
< 1252255145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what native silicon speed is, anyway
< 1252255150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: np
< 1252255152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the issue?
< 1252255185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They're unclocked, so they all run at different speed.
< 1252255185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *speeds
< 1252255185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (native silicon speed, pretty much)
< 1252255187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, don't you need clock for some stuff? Like making sure avoiding metastable state and such.
< 1252255189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : thought you needed some kind of speed limiting to make some components work by making sure they didn't settle into a meta stable state or whatever. "flip-flops"?
< 1252255191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that
< 1252255203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you do need speed limiting, due to slew rates
< 1252255220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the metastable state only really happens with self-references, unless you're really unlucky
< 1252255229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how could that colourforth chip work as unclocked?
< 1252255236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you try to run a circuit too fast, there just won't be time to change 1s to 0s
< 1252255261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and asynchronous design doesn't imply that it's running max speed with nothing limiting; just that there isn't a global clock
< 1252255276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is silicon speed quantifiable in hz?
< 1252255282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there'll almost certainly be local synchronization or control circuits, either implemented clock-style or some other way
< 1252255284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it vary
< 1252255288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, and yes
< 1252255293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252255300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's massively temperature-dependent, for one thing
< 1252255300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's like 50ghz normally or sth?
< 1252255329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in one of our lab experiments, we chained 7 NOT gates in a loop, which for that sort of logic gave oscillation rather than a metastable state
< 1252255348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the resulting oscillation was so fast that we could only just notice it on the student oscilloscopes, even setting them to the max frequency range
< 1252255360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember offhand what value they go up to, though
< 1252255376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Caltech designed and manufactured the world's first fully Quasi Delay Insensitive processor. During demonstrations, the researchers amazed viewers by loading a simple program which ran in a tight loop, pulsing one of the output lines after each instruction. This output line was connected to an oscilloscope. When a cup of hot coffee was placed on the chip, the pulse rate (the effective "clock rate") naturally slowed down to adapt to the worsening performance
< 1252255376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the heated transistors. When liquid nitrogen was poured on the chip, the instruction rate shot up with no additional intervention."
< 1252255403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty impressive
< 1252255415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1252255423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, the massive slowdown in silicon-based circuits when they're heated is one of the more interesting demonstrations
< 1252255434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: haha
< 1252255437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no overclocking required
< 1252255439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically makes all the components electronically leakier
< 1252255444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Beef up the cooling
< 1252255446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. There is no step two!
< 1252255451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get more stray electrons doing random things, rather than what you want them to
< 1252255485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what kind of range does it get at usual CPU temperature
< 1252255491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double digit ghz? triple?
< 1252255513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends a huge amount on the fabrication techniques used
< 1252255543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to pay quite a lot extra to get a circuit going faster than a few tens to hundreds of megahertz, but ofc modern computers are much faster than that
< 1252255566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is one of the reasons that modern processors are quite expensive as silicon chips go)
< 1252255598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One would assume the "instruction rate" would depend also on how the chip does whatever it does, i.e. how much logic there is to go through.
< 1252255611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's say AMD produced a clockless chip using typical desktop cooling
< 1252255622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with as good as process as their x86 chips
< 1252255629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the answer is I don't know
< 1252255632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252255641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is, though, that the circuitry would be more complex
< 1252255650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the circuit would have to run more slowly as a result
< 1252255660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, you'd have a considerably simpler motherboard
< 1252255678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of what a motherboard does is trying to match the wildly varying clock speeds of different bits of the system
< 1252256049 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252256052 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252258053 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-15-239.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252258509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9hudh/the_most_complex_computer_science_operating/ ;; BSD astroturf? :-P
< 1252258611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.losethos.com/godsongs.html
< 1252258611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1252258616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the what.
< 1252258618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha wow.
< 1252258628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing
< 1252259019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I consult God regularly. One design decision He made was no child windows -- policy of one window per task. Another decision He made was 640x480 resolution. I posted a promise of sticking to this resolution. Then, God said He didn't mean permanantly, but I had already promised and God expects you to keep your word. Those were the main influences by God on my operating system. He's made little things, too."
< 1252259036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("God's court is the supremest court. It's funny -- I hear these punks saying piracy is not theft. I'd like to see them tell God. I thought so!")
< 1252259043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never fail to make me laugh, losethos
< 1252259052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Wouldn't you believe in God if He talked to you? What's nutty about that?")
< 1252259068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I downloaded opensound with a BSD license, but couldn't uncompress it. I even bought a new copy of winzip -- no luck."
< 1252259070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tee hee
< 1252259242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what format was the archive in? tgz?
< 1252259572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly
< 1252259576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows
< 1252259587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just so crazy :)
< 1252259974 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Winzip can do tgz, I think
< 1252259977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may've been tbz2
< 1252261812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "opensound" means OSS, the download form lets you decide between .rpm, .deb and .tar.bz2.
< 1252261886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A reasonably new winzip should be able to do bzip2, I think.
< 1252261893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He decided not to because it's evil BSD license
< 1252261899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid valgrind, segfaulting on an unstripped binary :-(
< 1252261905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it allows no commercial use therefore it's against people making money
< 1252261935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source downloads are .tar.bz2 only.
< 1252262205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ouch, report a bug
< 1252262219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also what the hell did you do to make it do that
< 1252262228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, it's CCBI2
< 1252262233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252262234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind ccbi -- segfault
< 1252262239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip -s ccbi && valgrind ccbi -- OK
< 1252262247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, valgrind version?
< 1252262250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.5
< 1252262256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also happened with 3.4.something last week
< 1252262258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becuase I guess this is some issue with reading debug info
< 1252262278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I hope your valgrind is built with debug info so you can report a bug about it
< 1252262306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'll want a copy of the binary anyway so I won't bother
< 1252262333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? I reported bugs to valgrind before. All but one fixed so far
< 1252262346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, really good devs there who tries to figure out each bug
< 1252262357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, a good test case is always a good idea
< 1252262379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but failing that they seem to accept binaries that cause the issue too
< 1252262392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I don't want to give them a copy even of the binary :-P
< 1252262403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why not?
< 1252262410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's open source after all
< 1252262411 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 20M big anyway
< 1252262415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, make a simple test case in D
< 1252262418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet it isn't
< 1252262434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ccbi2? you made the hg repo public iirc.
< 1252262442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm pretty sure I have a copy somewhere
< 1252262470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm yeah, I could try a non-secret copy
< 1252262499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HOW DARE YOU BE A CATHEDRAL
< 1252262579 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, evidently the non-secret one fails too
< 1252262592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18M yay
< 1252262602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 meggajits
< 1252262612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: how's it secret :P
< 1252262646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a /problem/ for me though, I can just run valgrind on the stripped copy and then ask gdb unstripped_copy what the symbol at a given address is
< 1252262652 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: How isn't it :-P
< 1252262668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252262742 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip --only-keep-debug makes it unexecutable, nice
< 1252262755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cannot execute binary file"
< 1252262862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it could be http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197988
< 1252262862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what it should do, anyway?
< 1252262890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? Isn't there non-debug not-needed-for-running stuff
< 1252262893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The intention is that this option will be used -- to create a two part executable. One a stripped binary which will occupy less space in RAM and in a distribution and the second a debugging information file [which is not supposed to be executed anyway]."
< 1252262907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay.
< 1252262971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's no "strip everything not necessary for running, but do keep debug info" flag.
< 1252263042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, they had a fix for it (2M stack) but backed it out
< 1252263066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's time to build my own valgrind and see if that helps
< 1252263131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, evidently the non-secret one fails too <-- what is the secret one?
< 1252263582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197988 presumably wasn't it after all, I made the stack size about 300 times bigger and it still doesn't work.
< 1252263648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, don't use such insanely long symbols
< 1252263659 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they are that insanely long
< 1252263661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, tell me what your long symbol is
< 1252263667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1252263671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW COME
< 1252263673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether that even is the problem
< 1252263675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you compile your binaries manually
< 1252263677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh
< 1252263679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids these days
< 1252263682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, in fact I use a compiler
< 1252263685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!
< 1252263688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely not.
< 1252263689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nm ./ccbi-unstrripped <-- look for the longest line
< 1252263693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dobelx64 is manually compiled though
< 1252263702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I do a sort by length somehow easily
< 1252263715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm... I was thinking about that myself
< 1252263720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk print length | sort numeric
< 1252263736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one get length in awk, is the question
< 1252263746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort numeric would be sort -n
< 1252263750 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, evidently, length. How obvious.
< 1252263773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :71997 is the longest.
< 1252263777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, include the symbol too
< 1252263781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also that is insanely long
< 1252263783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no, it's 72k.
< 1252263786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[awk '{print length" "$0}' | sort -n]], FWIW
< 1252263802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[awk '{print length, $0} | sort -n]] is what I did
< 1252263816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symbol is apparently full of MD5
< 1252263822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning it's been compressed quite a bit already.
< 1252263833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, isn't md5 supposed to be one way?
< 1252263836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some-end of the compiler does that to compress them.
< 1252263851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is, so it's not fully clear where the symbol came from.
< 1252263865 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have the initial part though, so I can guess.
< 1252263865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIIICE compression scheme
< 1252263885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you get symbol names you need to compress to fit you are doing something wrong elsewhere ;P
< 1252263885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Think about it. If this were reversible, it'd be another 10-100x bigger.
< 1252263901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The compiler is doing something wrong by emitting this.
< 1252263909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep that is what I meant
< 1252263910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a known bug, of which the cause is not known.
< 1252263916 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it isn't.
< 1252263916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh?
< 1252263922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symbol does exist
< 1252263928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just shouldn't be emitted because it's compile-time only
< 1252263948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that the compiler is doing something wrong if it manages to construct a symbol that long
< 1252263949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I mean, there is something that long there, it just should be discarded.
< 1252263956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly, and you're wrong there.
< 1252263983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or possibly the user is doing something wrong,
< 1252263985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is presumably the concatenation of all fingerprints' instructions' identifiers' names
< 1252263988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah Deewiant
< 1252263990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's your problem
< 1252263992 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that
< 1252263993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered that YOU fail
< 1252263998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wow why?
< 1252264014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I meant the common case where C++ generates long ones due to lots and lots of templates
< 1252264017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think: boost
< 1252264020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since they're all "ccbi.fingerprints.rcfunge98.trds.dosomethingcool" or the like, it's no surprise that this grows a bit.
< 1252264022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like in the bug report)
< 1252264036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective C++: "All the high level expressivity of C, with the lean and slim design of C++ together with the speed of Smalltalk."
< 1252264046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD
< 1252264054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9hqbk/drag_mouse_to_rotate_look_at_tree_through_portals/c0cu74a)
< 1252264088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unable to view that flash?
< 1252264097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me what it is
< 1252264101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think he is unable.
< 1252264115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was linking to a comment, and no.
< 1252264122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You chose not to install flash, so you don't see flash content.
< 1252264129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a decision you have made and it is only because of you.
< 1252264169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sum of all symbol lengths is 4895700
< 1252264176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note, this is in the non-"-g" version
< 1252264183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is only 11M
< 1252264227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The -g version goes up to 4974975; not that much more
< 1252264295 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this is what happens when you do compile-time functional programming with a crap compiler frontend ;-P
< 1252264329 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-214.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252264351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I DON'T LOVE YO
< 1252264352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U
< 1252264358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have hyperactive enterkey syndrome
< 1252264386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a linker fail in some way too, I guess, since they shouldn't be used from anywhere
< 1252264458 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well one would hope not
< 1252264468 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre WAY too young
< 1252264472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SAID THAT THE ONE OF THE TWO OF THE writing lines is boring
< 1252264478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you would know, pedo
< 1252264484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVING CLAIMED TO LOVE ME THE LAST TIME YOU WERE IN HERE
< 1252264487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am i even talking about?
< 1252264509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you could try nm on each *.o
< 1252264510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find out
< 1252264522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if it was linker only or not
< 1252264525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one .o
< 1252264530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1252264549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try non-whole-program-insanely-fast mode?
< 1252264577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have one *.o per compilation unit
< 1252264735 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252264786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13M ccbi.instructions.templates.o
< 1252264787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1252264816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 69-line file with four workarounds for compiler bugs
< 1252264838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vim doesn't recognize it as D and thinks it's dtrace
< 1252265055 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252265075 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252265076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/shanerichmond/100003402/google-ufo-logo-mystery-solved/
< 1252265104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, dtrace?
< 1252265112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also what about emacs?
< 1252265119 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun's DTrace.
< 1252265125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't have emacs.
< 1252265126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh that...
< 1252265162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, this just proves how crappy a) current C implementations and b) vim are
< 1252265177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, AnMaster
< 1252265183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being unable to detect a file type = VIM SUX EMACS RULZ
< 1252265188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIM PERHAPS EVEN DROOLZ
< 1252265197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, it is horrible isn't it
< 1252265305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 87.97-MB emacs doesn't seem to have D support at all.
< 1252265311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for that.
< 1252265337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :87 MB? what emacs variant is that?
< 1252265352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"emacs-23.1-3" from Arch's repositories.
< 1252265361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Emacs 23.1.1
< 1252265366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is a bit lacking in the different-file-types front; of course there's a major mode for just about anything, but they don't ship everything by default.
< 1252265383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1252265395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how they ship me a /var/games/emacs/snake-scores but not filetype support.
< 1252265420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't install that part of emacs usually
< 1252265421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ls /usr/share/emacs/23.1.50/lisp/progmodes/*.elc | wc -l" => 85, vs. "ls /usr/share/vim/vimcurrent/syntax/*.vim | wc -l" => 522.
< 1252265451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls /usr/share/emacs/22.3/lisp/progmodes/*.elc | wc -l
< 1252265451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :81
< 1252265451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here
< 1252265457 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :84 / 521
< 1252265474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If you want to know the test:
< 1252265476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if match(lines, '^#!\S\+dtrace\|#pragma\s\+D\s\+option\|:\S\{-}:\S\{-}:') > -1
< 1252265476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : setf dtrace
< 1252265476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else
< 1252265476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : setf d
< 1252265478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : endif
< 1252265483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know the test.
< 1252265499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't bothered to modify it.
< 1252265505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What part of the test is confusing it?
< 1252265521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the last
< 1252265546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's \{-}?
< 1252265576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalent to * but non-greedy, evidently
< 1252265622 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the line const C = "'" ~ (i=='\''?r"\'":i=='\\'?r"\\":i=='"'?"\"":""~i) ~ "'"; matches that last bit.
< 1252265643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently so; sounds like the Perl *?
< 1252265659 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me, I don't know the details of Perl regexp that well.
< 1252265682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, the line const C = "'" ~ (i=='\''?r"\'":i=='\\'?r"\\":i=='"'?"\"":""~i) ~ "'"; matches that last bit.
< 1252265684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell
< 1252265694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has *?, +? and ?? as non-greedy variants of plain *, + and ?.
< 1252265713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and {...}? for {...}.
< 1252265723 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right, it does indeed.
< 1252265723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Java borrowed thom too.
< 1252265735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them*
< 1252265743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what the hell is that D line
< 1252265747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, "thom". It sounds more impressive that way.
< 1252265759 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ is concatenate, the rest is C-compatible.
< 1252265760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah ok :P
< 1252265783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and r"" is a string without escape chars
< 1252265784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok... why the hell then :P
< 1252265802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was trying to write "those" and "them" simultaneously.
< 1252265824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why do it as a series of nested ?: expressions?
< 1252265845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to?
< 1252265856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to be constant, note
< 1252265858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant as opposed to if else?
< 1252265867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh hm
< 1252265868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if-else isn't a constant expression, is it now
< 1252265873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but that isn't constant either
< 1252265875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i is
< 1252265895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if i is, then what is the point?
< 1252265898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i is a template parameter, so it is indeed constant.
< 1252265902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm
< 1252265920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, tell me, what the hell is it that you are doing :P
< 1252265929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That line is a workaround for http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=1059
< 1252265988 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This code is probably in your copy of CCBI2, too.
< 1252266093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many open D compiler bugs are there?
< 1252266114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the frontend I guess
< 1252266114 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For DMD, 1005
< 1252266121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That includes frontend and backend
< 1252266127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252266132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and in the ldc backend?
< 1252266154 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :53, but some of those might also be for their frontend fork
< 1252266164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and how many compiler bug workarounds does CCBI2 contain?
< 1252266194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep WORKAROUND | wc -l = 26
< 1252266197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1252266201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The secret one has 28
< 1252266205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1252266215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is so secret about it ;P
< 1252266241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 of those are for bug 810, which was fixed in the penultimate release but hasn't been merged into LDC
< 1252266250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252266253 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that release breaks backwards compatibility with something else
< 1252266288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how long since D reached stable version?
< 1252266303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as defined by what upstream consider stable
< 1252266306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and 8 of them are for a workaround in the build tool
< 1252266318 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which could be removed if I switched to xfBuild, which I haven't bothered to do
< 1252266350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 1.0 was called stable, although it actually wasn't (GRR 1.017, breaking several parts of my code)
< 1252266359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right...
< 1252266362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that was beginning of 2007
< 1252266372 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the D1 - D2 fork happened
< 1252266418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised that there are so many bugs still left in D after that time. Few devs working on it?
< 1252266422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian has 77742 active bugs in 11741 packages; what a rat's nest of bugs.
< 1252266443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, about 7 bugs per package?
< 1252266457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently so.
< 1252266475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any stats over which package has most?
< 1252266488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to see how evenly distributed it is
< 1252266521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The median number of bugs is 2, however.
< 1252266581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Workaround stats for the DMD frontend in ccbi: 7 for 810, 5 for 1059, one each for 1640,1715,2288,2339,2991
< 1252266581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4804 packages with one bug, 2024 with two. Oh, and this is from the active-bugs index, so it's completely ignoring all packages with no bugs at all, which is not quite fair. :p
< 1252266619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't think I have any in cfunge, and I had one in efunge. Yay for stable software :P
< 1252266638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay for compilers with more than one maintainer :-P
< 1252266641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the top-three active bugs:
< 1252266644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * apt (maintainer: APT Development Team ) has 828 bugs
< 1252266644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that too
< 1252266644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * installation-reports (maintainer: Debian Install Team ) has 2113 bugs
< 1252266644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * wnpp (maintainer: wnpp@debian.org) has 3528 bugs
< 1252266652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there are some I more or less consider workarounds, like the double nested stringification macro
< 1252266653 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wnpp?
< 1252266657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is in C standard
< 1252266663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, a meta-package
< 1252266669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so possibly a stupid standard workaround
< 1252266677 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like installation-reports presumably is
< 1252266690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the wnpp meta-package for?
< 1252266698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=wnpp
< 1252266714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252266855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "installation-reports" bugs are I think general "problems installing Debian" issues.
< 1252266888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The apt bugs seem reasonably real, though.
< 1252266918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is just a software everyone use
< 1252266923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still that many? hm
< 1252266929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it counts minor and wishlist and other such things.
< 1252266937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah true
< 1252266961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Outstanding bugs -- Wishlist items; Unclassified (243 bugs)" is the largest single category for apt.
< 1252266994 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1252267000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 7 other packages in the top-10 bugs list are aptitude, debbugs, dpkg, emacs21, evolution, iceweasel and linux-2.6. Pretty popular stuff.
< 1252267021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd've expected xorg in that list
< 1252267042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's split in too many parts, I think. :p
< 1252267052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, heh
< 1252267100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :952 bugs in everything matching /xorg/, that would make it replace apt in the top-3.
< 1252267115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though not if counting apt+aptitude+dpkg together.
< 1252267190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :227 bugs in xserver-xorg-core, 178 bugs in xserver-xorg-video-intel; those are the only two three-digit numbers there.
< 1252267237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a funky graph at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/
< 1252267285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A4rexr cxi6r
< 1252268281 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fried rice you made yourself is quite delicious.
< 1252268308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not making it yourself inherently reduces its flavour. True story.
< 1252268315 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truth.
< 1252268319 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1252268343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restaurants like covering it in soy sauce. Far too much salt, glutamates.
< 1252268355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. I love soy sauce.
< 1252268371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some soy sauce adds nice flavor.
< 1252268384 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252268388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding cups of soy sauce makes for a dish saltier than potato chips.
< 1252268523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asset.soup.io/asset/0426/5459_3af7.jpeg
< 1252268632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that was... almost funny :\
< 1252268644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But actually? :-P
< 1252268656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not funny, or something more
< 1252268664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea
< 1252268665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs moar wok.
< 1252268673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically it should have been funny
< 1252268676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it just isn't
< 1252269271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blut
< 1252269411 0 :boily!n=boily@dsl-67-230-147-103.tor.primus.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252269507 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252269511 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E621... a.k.a. MSG... Wasn't it causative for overweight in animal experiments and associated with overweight in humans? :-)
< 1252269511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252269516 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252269517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck
< 1252269546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what's your point
< 1252269602 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To that "Far too much salt, glutamates". And who cares about salt (apart from bad taste) unless one is exceptionally sensitive to sodium.
< 1252269640 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statistically signficant != actually significant.
< 1252269704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: of course he means taste...
< 1252269708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you can't taste salt?
< 1252269721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: "Bad taste" is the primary complaint.
< 1252269758 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, except that many have attitude: Eek... Salt (same type as eek... fat).
< 1252269775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm complaining about glutamates in general, not specifically MSG. (soy sauce has naturally-occuring glutamates. They overpower everything else when too much is used.)
< 1252269838 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soy sauce proabably also has other nasty stuff in it (that screws with things like nutrient intake)...
< 1252269865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likely. I'm just complaining about how it tastes bad when you use tons of it, though.
< 1252269873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soy sauce is delicious though, who cares
< 1252269924 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "assocated with"... As some research reports would say, MSG consumption is a risk factor for being overweight.
< 1252269958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the things that have MSG added have many other reasons for being bad for you.
< 1252269968 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252269985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to be able to survive on just about anything
< 1252270060 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but that MSG-weight association seems independent of that...
< 1252270122 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, most stuff in stores that contains MSG contains quite nasty stuff.
< 1252270145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure I can physically get overweight
< 1252270153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been underweight my whole life no matter how much I eat
< 1252270153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1252270255 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ever wondered why GI of fructose is so low compared to glucose even if both are very closely related)?
< 1252270271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never in my life, Ilari.
< 1252270498 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252270522 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glucose GI: 100 (defintion), Fructose GI: ~20.
< 1252270541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling Ilari is involved in some sort of nutritionist field
< 1252270721 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is using Wolfram alpha
< 1252270737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram Alpha doesn't help you care about stuff
< 1252270773 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just seems that most of current "nutrion science" is total garbage...
< 1252270790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso?
< 1252270820 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nutrion
< 1252270910 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badly designed research, conclusions that do not follow from data, bad media reporting, etc...
< 1252271506 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard trick: Send embragoed (keep secret until publication of the actual study) press release about some study to press (of course, distorting even further from already distorted conclusions). The press then distort it even further and then all give press without reading what the actual study says.
< 1252271874 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course this might come on top of study design so bad that one wonders wheither incompetence is sufficient to explain it.
< 1252271985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: it's a conspiracy!
< 1252271993 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1252272131 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252272419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the funniest was rating various diets based on model which compared them to modern food guidelines... And one of the diets there was Atkins... One can guess how well it fared...
< 1252272450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that funny
< 1252272622 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and then there was effects on cholesterol computed for compared diets. And let's just say that those values were not sanity-checked against real-world values...
< 1252272674 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252272710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: do you like research this much into absolutely everything :D
< 1252272785 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252272858 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I come across... I have seen lots of quite wild stuff. Including stuff that would have serious HSQ if the math would check out (I usually skip the heavy math on first reading).
< 1252272877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expand HSQ?
< 1252272886 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy Shit Quotent.
< 1252272902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1252272906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Quotient
< 1252273036 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff like deriving Special Relativity, something close to General Relativity and some cosmological stuff (without having to invoke dark energy) out of model with *absolute* time.
< 1252273059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all crazy :)
< 1252273159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to replace the batteriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiies eseseseseseses in this keyboard, because it keeps repeating the same key which just closed all my browser windows and did ← that.
< 1252273177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I recommend you do so.
< 1252273186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that was amusing.
< 1252273226 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that remind me of Linux doublecore keyboard bug? :-)
< 1252273272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every key repeated or something?
< 1252273293 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every keypress appeared twice.
< 1252273309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah.
< 1252273312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1252273317 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How'd they manage that?
< 1252273322 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea.
< 1252273349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: run the keyboard code on both cores
< 1252273361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you manage that accidentally
< 1252273363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it notifies each core about it, they both send it to the rest of the system
< 1252273364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oops"
< 1252273372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: corespawn(kb);corespawn(kb);
< 1252273379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it runs everything on every core by default in that section
< 1252273382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// OOPS, didn't mean to do that
< 1252273384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's a general-stuff-for-the-cpu
< 1252273390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which each cpu core needs
< 1252273395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they had the kb in that for single core
< 1252273400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without realising it would break with more cores
< 1252273407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's possible
< 1252273443 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something OS-visible that's shared between cores but not been processors in SMP configuration...
< 1252273452 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*between
< 1252273539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a multi-core system you can program the APICs to sensibly route interrupts; I could believe they can be configured to deliver keyboard interrupts to both cores accidentally.
< 1252273570 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wouldn't expain it.
< 1252273588 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming the keyboard interface is similar to what PS/2 used).
< 1252273623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual pentium III, fuck yeah
< 1252273655 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double-IRQ would mess with it for sure, but at least PS/2 interface suppiled the real scancode data from I/O port).
< 1252273697 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first IRQ would read the key and the second would then get nothing. Or they both would get parts and really mess things up.
< 1252273793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irky IRQ quirk
< 1252273801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are interrupt-based USB endpoints, but I have no clue how those work really.
< 1252274209 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From /proc/interrupts: LOC: 657 698 369 (Timer), IRQ17: 367 783 122 (NIC), IRQ14: 35 914 225 (IDE), IRQ1: 8 306 061 (Keyboard), IRQ15: 170 134 (IDE), IRQ23: 1 007 (USB), IRQ16: 587 (USB), IRQ12: 323 (Mouse), IRQ0: 44 (Timer), IRQ4: 7 (Serial), IRQ6: 4 (floppy), IRQ8: 3 (RTC).
< 1252274211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your end point.
< 1252274374 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Racked 72 more IRQ6's backing up some source code. :-)
< 1252274710 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Esolang that has 94 no-arguments operators (!-~) and every previous character affects decoding of the next... Would make code totally unreadable & unmaintainable.
< 1252274739 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds a bit like Malbolge
< 1252274743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the decoding bit
< 1252274795 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that malbolge also scrambles code when running...
< 1252274972 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably best would be language that could be proven to be TC with non-constructive proof but that wouldn't have any easy constructive proof that it is TC.
< 1252275075 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or where the size of programs really explode when they get more complex (but still its TC).
< 1252275220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even /proc/interrupts is so complicated nowadays: http://pastebin.com/m2c5bc2b4
< 1252275268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be just IRQ lines from 0 to 15 on a PC, and that was enough! Uphill both ways!
< 1252275295 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is even more complicated: http://pastebin.com/f7f0bb0ca
< 1252275313 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCI-MSI-edge? HPET-MSI-edge?
< 1252275320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More cores, more numbers.
< 1252275321 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although less IRQs evidently
< 1252275336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead I have "machine check" stuff
< 1252275410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSI is that PCI/PCIE message-signaled-interrupt thing, with the device sending a message over the bus to cause an interrupt, instead of having physical lines for that.
< 1252275419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are just polls. Actual machine check events are worse.
< 1252275453 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252275514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and "lspci"; at one point there was this one PCI bus, but now lspci lists five.
< 1252275560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have three vacant PCI Express ports and one vacant PCI bridge
< 1252275576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a PCI Express root port, whatever that is.
< 1252275658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252275662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m18086ab0 -- I would like to, for example, know why the bt878 card has a different bus number there.
< 1252275670 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This computer has 4 USB ports. And according to lspci, 3 USB1 UCHI controllers plus one USB2 ECHI controller...
< 1252275698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to "lspci -t" that bus 04 is connected via that 00:14.4 "PCI to PCI Bridge".
< 1252275747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And buses 01, 02 and 03 go through the more reasonable PCI bridges 00:01/02/06 up there; they even have some sort of labels there.
< 1252275834 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCI bridge on card itself?
< 1252275856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it'd be "ATI Technologies Inc SBx00" then.
< 1252275893 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What that SBx00 even is?
< 1252275907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound Blaster from ATI? :-P
< 1252275910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably "SB600 and SB700", product numbers.
< 1252275914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :South Bridge, I guess.
< 1252275939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, it's an ATI motherboard isn't it
< 1252275942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252275946 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252276122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Intel Atom box has a significantly shorter lspci output; much less cruft there.
< 1252276271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what window managers are you darned kids running these days
< 1252276297 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IceWM.
< 1252276314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome, still.
< 1252276321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icewm would be wonderful if it had just a lil more polish
< 1252276372 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Openbox
< 1252276531 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some bugs fixed, like that "lose input focus" bug.
< 1252276560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :openbox is so strange. why do you have to keep some space free to get a menu to do anything? that's a ridiculous UI
< 1252276563 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometimes when focused window is closed, no window gets the focus).
< 1252276566 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMONAD
< 1252276580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPSLOCKMONAD
< 1252276587 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Wut?
< 1252276605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut yourself
< 1252276613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keeping some space free wut
< 1252276625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fact is that you have to hunt for a bit of desktop
< 1252276636 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the menu? Just bind it to a key
< 1252276639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is ridiculous: Desktop is space that should be filled with useful things
< 1252276656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Pressing a key then directly taskswitching to the mouse seems inefficient/
< 1252276658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.
< 1252276660 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it on Win-esc myself, although I do always have some desktop free in the corners next to my toolbar as well
< 1252276678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, your problem is that you use the mouse ;-)
< 1252276688 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "losing input focus" is annoying because then "next window" and "previous window" don't work. To give something focus from keyboard, one has to use window list.
< 1252276707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just always seemed to me like openbox is a WM designed to make pretty translucent screenshots with small fonts /shrug
< 1252276728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is, but it works for me with 0% translucency. :-P
< 1252276736 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main WM menu is Capslock+M here. :-)
< 1252276769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish the automatic window managers actually made an attempt at intelligently managing them
< 1252276775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "hurr, one to the left rest to the right"
< 1252276779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "hurr, fibonacci spiral"
< 1252276938 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the windows don't spin by themselves...
< 1252276947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1252276965 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One WM had key combo which made current window start to spin...
< 1252276982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x
< 1252276995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet sawfish :P
< 1252277052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same WM also had stuff like window rotation with three degrees of freedom, window zooming (seperate from resizing) and that...
< 1252277077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point Enlightenment was the WM that seemed most focused on the pretty tricks.
< 1252277104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1252277111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enlightenment has always seemed crappy to me
< 1252277135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if E17 is out yet :P
< 1252277147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enlightenment allows you to have a grid of workspaces called virtual desktops. Switching between them is achieved by hurling the mouse cursor to the edge of the screen, at which the desktop appears to slide across to reveal the next. The maximum grid size is currently 8 by 8 desktops, and you can have 32 grids (each with a different background), making 2048 total possible desktop spaces."
< 1252277151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1252277152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so surprised
< 1252277167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 2048 desktops, fuck yeah
< 1252277190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Users can enable a map of the desktops, in case they get lost, which is called the pager.)
< 1252277197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enlightenment: So you can get lost in your desktops.
< 1252277214 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2048 virtual desktops? I only have 11. :-(
< 1252277218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11?
< 1252277221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're crazy
< 1252277237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DR16 has been the choice of power users and artists due to its low overhead, highly graphical, widely theme-able, extremely configurable, yet unobtrusive interface."
< 1252277247 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(named "F2"-"F12").
< 1252277280 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess why there isn't "F1".
< 1252277288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help?
< 1252277365 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, CAPSLOCK+SHIFT+Fx hits three-key same-row/column restriction with x = 1.
< 1252277377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut?
< 1252277381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, keys.
< 1252277398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what keyboard is capslock+shift+fx comfortable
< 1252277402 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, one can't hit Capslock+Shift+F1.
< 1252277419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can, with difficulty :)
< 1252277433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a suitably skewed perspective I could claim to have 216 virtual desktops, since there's six independently selectable tags on all three monitors, and 6^3 = 216. Though from an even more wonky perspective I guess I could claim 262144, since you can select any combination of tags, and (2^6)^3 = 262144.
< 1252277445 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capslock+Shift+F1 just doesn't work.
< 1252277454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: howso
< 1252277509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess he means with a "on this keyboard" qualifier.
< 1252277513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean 'pataphysically?
< 1252277518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or physically
< 1252277521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or softwhysically
< 1252277534 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one hits three keys at once, the keys must either be in distinct rows in scan matrix or in distinct columns in scan matrix.
< 1252277544 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise the third key won't register.
< 1252277553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that is true with my keyboard, at least...
< 1252277634 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the keys are located in scan matrix may vary depending on keyboard. But for any keyboard that uses scan matrix, that three-key restriction appiles.
< 1252277653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ó_ó I've never heard about this before
< 1252277658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do make keyboards completely without that problem; and I think quite many keyboards put the modifier keys "independently" recognizable.
< 1252277663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems sucky.
< 1252277677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the more expensive keyboards don't do that.
< 1252277741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it depends on what sort of "expensive" it is; if it's just expensive-because-it-has-stylish-design they might not care. It's not like it hurts "normal use", especially if the modifier keys always work.
< 1252277772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the key-jamming problem is not a new one; Star Control came with a keyboard testing thing you could use to pick up keys so that two people can play the melee game without problems.
< 1252277774 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the only use where the scan matrix layout really matters is hotseat multiplayer games.
< 1252277791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean like mechanical keyswitches
< 1252277794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expensive
< 1252277836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think full n-key rollover is very common even in expensive-like-that keyboards, but I don't have any empirical data on this.
< 1252277842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_%28key%29 is about it.
< 1252277846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not related to n-key rollover, is it?
< 1252277857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just being able to hit a bunch of keys at once, not neccessarily in the same row/column.
< 1252277864 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on this keyboard, left shift is part of normal scan matrix. Capslock+F1 is possible, Capslock+Shift+F1 isn't.
< 1252277864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*necessarily
< 1252277960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason you can't hit multiple keys is because of the matrix-style design. And it makes it sometimes rather nontrivial to find out which keys you can do.
< 1252278001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had a rollover problem
< 1252278005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this logi-illu one, I can hit 'q', 'w', 'e' and 'r' successfully, but if I keep those four pressed 't' won't register any more.
< 1252278011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type at like 100wpm, but only ever hit one or two keys at a time.
< 1252278051 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this keyboard, two key columns in main block (alphabet, numbers & co) are on same scan matrix column.
< 1252278071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like it's an issue when typing. But when you have one person using wasd and a couple of "fire" and "special" buttons controlling one car, and another one with the cursor keys and another couple of buttons, it's trickier.
< 1252278120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the second row I apparently can do 'a', 's', 'd', 'f' and 'g', but with all those down 'h' will no longer register.
< 1252278136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 3-key rollover is considered essential for English touch typing. [3]
< 1252278139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Wikipedia
< 1252278147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't make any sense to me
< 1252278171 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here second row registers only up to 'f'. 'g' won't register anymore.
< 1252278215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the mechanical design does come to play too, when it comes to the speed how fast keys rise up and so on. Can't say I've had trouble *typing* with even the cheapest keyboards I've used.
< 1252278238 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typing so fast that previous key doesn't have time to register as relased before next is pressed?
< 1252278317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is certainly no gaming keyboard, I can't seem to find any two wasd-shaped sets of keys where you could successfully record all eight simultaneous keys; it just goes up to six.
< 1252278370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never tried to press eight keys in a game at once.
< 1252278376 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If keys register on positive edge, and there is no ghosting/jamming, then release delay (if not enough to cause false autorepeat), won't usually be problematic.
< 1252278392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Maybe you haven't been multiplayering much with a single keyboard, then?
< 1252278413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's true.
< 1252278419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally use crazy invention like : Inter - net!
< 1252278422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*net !
< 1252278456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: meh, hjkl-shaped > wasd-shaped
< 1252278496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure that's true for gaming, especially if the game is usually played with cursor keys and the second player just needs a suitable replacement.
< 1252278506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjkl sucks.
< 1252278510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inter net! But it's so expensive, and my parents don't want me to keep the phone line busy all the time, and my 2400 bps modem gets so bad latency, and... well, no game supports that sort of thing anyway.
< 1252278521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasd is perfectly intuitive, hjkl is just being contrarian for the fuck of it.
< 1252278544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just hook up a modem and dial a friend running a Doom game
< 1252278553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use ordinary telephone numbers!
< 1252278563 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second in main block is usually ijkl, with actions being something like 'b'.
< 1252278585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that, but it's still expensive, and has the phone-line-busy problem, and anyway only a tiny fraction of games supported modem-based multiplayer.
< 1252278588 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(first being wsad, with actions being tabs, and various left modifiers).
< 1252278626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just run a looooooong ps/2 cable to your friend
< 1252278629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to another keyboard
< 1252278634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila! in-ter net
< 1252278706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warcraft 2 did, and ROTT, and Descent, and obviously Doom; but none of the cave-flying games like kops, v-wing, luola; eh, I guess that genre is not so widespread outside Finland, really.
< 1252278728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those sound fun
< 1252278747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slicks'n'Slide, too... actually I think that's a Finnish invention too.
< 1252278755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were the game mechanics of these... cave-flying ames
< 1252278762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.luolamies.org/software/luola/screens/screen6.png ;; looks great
< 1252278765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just lik... fly
< 1252278767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like
< 1252278770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*looks great
< 1252278783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and shoot your friends with a multitude of weapons.
< 1252278810 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least if you still have flyable ship)...
< 1252278821 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252278830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, and if you hit things you die?
< 1252278832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; v-wing lets you continue with just your "guy" when the ship goes boom.
< 1252278851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on settings, but usually bumping into things does take up some of your health.
< 1252278860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the levels are usually bitmap files (or a few of them) so there's quite a variety of levels available.
< 1252278863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds fun.
< 1252278877 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should just all play falling sand
< 1252278878 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ship from Luola has ejector seat...
< 1252278897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling sand kind of doesn't have any game mechanics
< 1252278909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly true
< 1252278915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso
< 1252278921 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not vanilla sand
< 1252278926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other versions
< 1252278935 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252278942 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the standard equipment for player moving on foot includes parachute and ninja rope...
< 1252278948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm like
< 1252278953 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus some kind of peashooter.
< 1252278959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ninja rope stolen from Worms or the other way around?
< 1252278972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dgame.com
< 1252278975 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1252278981 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid make is slowing my computer down
< 1252278993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dgame.com
< 1252278993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you need, when you need it
< 1252279011 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stolen poorly from Worms. The one in Worms is much more useful.
< 1252279027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well, the whole flying thing is basically identical to the super sheep in worms ofc
< 1252279035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except... shooting
< 1252279043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt that was stolen
< 1252279047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's pretty obvious
< 1252279077 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wxSand
< 1252279082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have wxsan
< 1252279082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d
< 1252279085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no game mechanics.
< 1252279092 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the mods do
< 1252279143 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also in Luola if ship got destroyed and the player got to docking pad on foot, one got new ship...
< 1252279179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads this luola thing in the hope it has single-player AI
< 1252279197 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also modes where players start on foot and level has N (or N-1 in another) ships scattered around.
< 1252279279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also that "N players run around with Worms-style ninja-rope and shoot the others" game; or I think at least two of them. Don't remember the names.
< 1252279348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called "Worms"
< 1252279393 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liero was ~first such game with 2-players. I have also played one such game over the net (back when I had 56K, which was actually 33.6k modem).
< 1252279418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Liero is ridiculously fun
< 1252279478 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also played Liero on Xbox (using the standard Xbox controllers). Didn't run very well.
< 1252279494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liero's ninja rope is a bitch, though
< 1252279511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact all ninja ropes apart from Worms 2 onward seem to really suck
< 1252279548 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in Luola is probably the worst I have seen.
< 1252279611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, Liero and some clone of it.
< 1252279648 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't there at least 3 OSS one that allow N players? Soldat, NiL and Bankiz...
< 1252279666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right MoleZ; and it was in fact the one that came before Liero.
< 1252279716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liero -- wikipedia knows all this important information.
< 1252279786 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sometimes programming course has project subject to make (simple) Liero clone... Some years ago one such course produced two more liero clones...
< 1252279821 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably not found anywhere anymore)...
< 1252279829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, Luola has no AI.
< 1252279835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or networked multiplayer.
< 1252279862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What that means: you need some real friends. :p
< 1252279867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft.
< 1252279868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As if.
< 1252279899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kops is open source nowadays, too: http://jet.ro/kops/ -- it's a bit different from the other cave-fliers, though, may be an acquired taste.
< 1252279904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (as opposed to all the chatbots I talk to in here?)
< 1252279948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But Kops won't have an AI either, or networked multiplayer for that matter.)
< 1252280006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kops is also the reason why I wrote that "VNC client with keyboard only", since we needed to play it with two keyboards to avoid the multiple-keys issues.
< 1252280022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252280103 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, Xinput won't let you treat another keyboard as just another input device? :-)
< 1252280131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was just the DOS version back then.
< 1252280156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it ran under Windows, even with a VNC server running.
< 1252280160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had some palette issues, though.
< 1252280262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy nowadays since you can just stick in more and more USB keyboards.
< 1252280273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFINITE DAISY-CHAINED USB KEYBOARDS
< 1252280295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know whether Windows handles multiple USB keyboards, but one can always hope.
< 1252280327 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those that like to do the same with mice, there's MPX... :-)
< 1252280394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also just have multiple single-pointer-controlling devices and have the players fight with it.
< 1252280403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPX + pointer warping = Trippy, man.
< 1252281408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1252283119 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252283250 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252284222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am from the future
< 1252284237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I traveled from 1992 to hear you say that.
< 1252284246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i can reference xkcd
< 1252284250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am culturally relevant"
< 1252284266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and socially respectable, also."
< 1252284275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the future we have no folly
< 1252284339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa you can do
< 1252284340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do
< 1252284343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : foo
< 1252284347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (blah);
< 1252284349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks so wrong.
< 1252284495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what language?
< 1252284577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C
< 1252284586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just part of the general if (x) y thing
< 1252284592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can do it for do/while, which looks freaky!
< 1252284599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also.
< 1252284604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer K&R declarations
< 1252284605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I insane?
< 1252284654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252284668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but
< 1252284672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer a proper typesystem.
< 1252284672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(argc,argv)
< 1252284675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know right there
< 1252284678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's passing argc and argv
< 1252284680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's helpful
< 1252284681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1252284682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int argc;
< 1252284684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok we want an int
< 1252284687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *argv[];
< 1252284688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1252284689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1252284692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(int argc, char *argv[])
< 1252284695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the names are buried
< 1252284698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to digest it all at once
< 1252284701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't very procedural
< 1252284781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just crazy :(
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "modern" C looks so ugly.
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unreadable. so much metacruft.
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K&R is a bit redundant, but the problem is that it has no type-safety
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(argc,argv)
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int argc;
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *argv[];
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that not type safe
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the caller sees "int foo (var)" and has no idea what to pass
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely agree about the ugliness
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz see ↑
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standards committee refuses to add keywords :(
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K&R is *easier* to digest
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get some semi-descriptive names, so you know the general order; and then you can poke at the indented bit next (up to unindented { - very easy to spot) and see the specific types for each
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this also makes it easier to read linearly too
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great. what is argc?
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, mistype
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[int
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(argc,argv)
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int argc;
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *argv[];
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with more indentation
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean the declaration
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a tab before those argc/argv type lines
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the definition it's fine
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well sure
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the declaration, do
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int,char*[]) or something
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because declarations are shit
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just hacks for compilers
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't really care about style in declarations
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declarations are also hacks for people
< 1252285147 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEOPLE SUCK
< 1252285147 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREW PEOPLE
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. declarations are a portal to perfect understanding of a function
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why we don't have any man pages.
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : execve(const char *path, char *const argv[], char *const envp[]);
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shazam!
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know comprehend everything about execve
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a fan of a manpage-per-function approach
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : snprintf(char *restrict s, size_t n, const char *restrict format, ...);
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course!
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: still
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentation
< 1252285147 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : void *mmap(void *addr, size_t length, int prot, int flags,
< 1252285147 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int fd, off_t offset);
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oh! It's obvious!
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I agree. Still easier to scan a file than load up the documentation and attempt to track something down
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :header files never include docs.
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use C++
< 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about I just stab my eyes out with a brick wall
< 1252285148 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252285154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then castrate myself by bashing my penis through my eye sockets repeatedly
< 1252285158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lobotomising myself in the process
< 1252285165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be significantly less painful
< 1252285170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and way more enjoyable
< 1252285176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, I think
< 1252285180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be just the same
< 1252285183 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead. At least I wouldn't have to listen to you complain about non-Haskell languages
< 1252285198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because the only language I like is haskell
< 1252285208 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He admits it!
< 1252285208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you don't even get to say anything. you *like* c++
< 1252285219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're basically like a jew
< 1252285221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a black person
< 1252285222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did I say I like C++
< 1252285227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insignificant and never has any useful opinions!
< 1252285229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: in here
< 1252285236 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you misread me
< 1252285266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said I program C++ by choice, I did not say I like the language
< 1252285289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then, you're into masochism
< 1252285360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should do some homework
< 1252285408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252285473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another C peeve:
< 1252285480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is main() of type int, dammit
< 1252285485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes people use return in one function
< 1252285488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exit() in another
< 1252285508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be void and the caller of main() should have exit(0) afterwards. gr.
< 1252286289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because C is a ridiculously inconsistent language.
< 1252286346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, C++ headers are genuinely *awful*.
< 1252286360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially for the standard template library.
< 1252286362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder*
< 1252286482 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep in mind that usu _start just calls exit with the return from main :P
< 1252286841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I KNOW IT'S SO STUPID
< 1252286850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to have been purposefully dense to do it this way.
< 1252287066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KEN THOMPSON
< 1252287068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DENNIS RITCHIE
< 1252287070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRIAN KERNIGHAN
< 1252287072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND OTHER PEOPLE
< 1252287075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM GOING TO MURDER YOU
< 1252287077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all
< 1252287179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://downloadmoreram.com/
< 1252287748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C needs things like != x → x = !x
< 1252287894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C needs many things.
< 1252287900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but
< 1252287900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of which are in C++.
< 1252287906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grid[x][y] = !grid[x][y]
< 1252287910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hurr I suck cocks"
< 1252287913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hurr I make you repeat"
< 1252287916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not
< 1252287919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!= grid[x][y]
< 1252287922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hurr because i suck cocks"
< 1252287925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i am C"
< 1252287927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hello"
< 1252288618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sites.google.com/site/ryanbroomfield/xkcd-sans-women
< 1252288717 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252289345 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252290853 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252290881 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "Sgeo-cybernetics"?
< 1252290918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the flying fuck are we meant to know?!?!?!!
< 1252290927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ccbb.biosci.utexas.edu/seminars.html
< 1252290938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just thinks it's humerous
< 1252290960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:01:35 http://ccbb.biosci.utexas.edu/seminars.html
< 1252290960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:01:47 "The term "Sgeo-cybernetics" was first proposed in 2005 by Reyes et.al."
< 1252290960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-06-24
< 1252290989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for Sgeo-cybernetics, but found no further information
< 1252291003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑
< 1252291008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your memory is short
< 1252291033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The term "Sgeo-cybernetics" was first proposed in 2005 by Reyes et.al." . I meant further than that
< 1252291061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2008-06-24"
< 1252291068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned this more than a year ago
< 1252291077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1252292255 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252292869 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252293775 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252294144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Fri Aug 07 2009 Kristian Høgsberg - 2.8.0-4
< 1252294144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Add dri2-page-flip.patch to enable full screen pageflipping.
< 1252294144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fixes XKCD #619.
< 1252294146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=126369
< 1252294270 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.explosm.net/comics/1785/ Everyone must watch this. Everyeone.
< 1252294273 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Everyone
< 1252294324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyanide and happiness eh
< 1252294327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a guess GregorR
< 1252294333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it involve sex or murder
< 1252294340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or insults
< 1252294347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a stretch i know
< 1252294352 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the first two: Only extremely proximally. To the latter: No.
< 1252294362 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an animation. And it's unbelievable. It's ... omg just watch it.
< 1252294365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure this is a cyanide and happiness production
< 1252294369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also does it requirea udio.
< 1252294373 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252294379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1252294380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will, once Code::Blocks is installed, write his own linked list implementation, to see if he can
< 1252294392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow Sgeo, you can write your own linked list implementation using an IDE
< 1252294395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Master programmer.
< 1252294399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must be so proud of yourself.
< 1252294404 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, because linked lists are a wildly difficult beast :P
< 1252294414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. You need a whole installed IDE to tackle them.
< 1252294427 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's the debugging.
< 1252294432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too lazy to figure out gcc or g++ or whatever >.>
< 1252294434 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Inevitably you'll have segfaults up the wazoo
< 1252294452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: stab.
< 1252294460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please kill yourself :|
< 1252294476 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hahahah
< 1252294485 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read the name, I thought that was ehird making fun of Sgeo.
< 1252294490 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's too stupid of a statement otherwise.
< 1252294495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252294654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: o_O
< 1252294669 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Watchin' the awesomeness? 8-D
< 1252294677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finished
< 1252294689 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS IT NOT AWESOME?!
< 1252294737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird
< 1252294797 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahaha
< 1252294812 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so wonderfully dramatic!
< 1252296371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/XZMPOHm8
< 1252296785 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-191.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252296848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're so special.
< 1252296859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bool result = true;
< 1252296860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : result *= !(this->next()) || (this->next()->prev() == this);
< 1252296860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : result *= !(this->prev()) || (this->prev()->next() == this);
< 1252296860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return result;
< 1252296865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ladies and gentlemen
< 1252296872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is retarded at boolean logic
< 1252296892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After I posted it, I realized that I should have replaced the || with && and gotten rid of the !
< 1252296900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how yours isn't even a linked list, just a node
< 1252296907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the user has to handle pushing himself.
< 1252296914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*themself
< 1252297345 0 :Tenacity!n=john@c-75-66-41-100.hsd1.tn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252297368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tenacity.
< 1252297373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how...tenacious?
< 1252297374 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No way of changing the prev_item slot.
< 1252297376 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ti
< 1252297382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who you be.
< 1252297383 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY tenacious
< 1252297387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite so
< 1252297391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are tenacity incarnate
< 1252297398 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed I am
< 1252297408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now who are you, scoundrel.
< 1252297418 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scoundrel?!
< 1252297425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1252297445 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've hardly had a chance to earn that title
< 1252297463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, let's ask a more direct question
< 1252297468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you come from
< 1252297470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...scoundrel
< 1252297537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just meant to be me practicing making a class in C++, nothing major
< 1252297537 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I come from the internet
< 1252297562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anybody who can't write a good linked list implementation in 5 minutes is a bad programmer, simple as
< 1252297570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tenacity: we stab tricksy people, btw.
< 1252297574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least I do.
< 1252297599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this channel is about programming languages.
< 1252297603 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, i shall don my stab proof armour, over my flame retardant armour
< 1252297603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just making sure.
< 1252297611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flame ... retard
< 1252297613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like.
< 1252297616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i right.
< 1252297637 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-/
< 1252297638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i right Tenacity.
< 1252297662 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right about what? being a bad programmer?
< 1252297672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea.
< 1252297680 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly.
< 1252297685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you'd better not be here for the esoterick magick. that only goes on in the backroom.
< 1252297696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stringent initiation procedures and all.
< 1252297721 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic. Well I shall keep my intentions well hidden until then
< 1252297723 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252297734 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252297914 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no summoning in this channel?
< 1252298031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely, cough, not.
< 1252299155 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow...
< 1252299163 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just read that RollerCoaster Tycoon was entirely assembly
< 1252299173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252299186 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that game is awesome
< 1252299332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : now who are you, scoundrel. <-- i'm going to assume you secretly know Tenacity from before, as otherwise i think this channel is _really_ going downhill
< 1252299339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't :P
< 1252299366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you just think it is getting too crowded in here?
< 1252299380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't actually, you know, being serious
< 1252299556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am of the persuation that one should actually know people a bit before teasing them with insults. you may have heard of this concept called "misunderstandings".
< 1252299794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when you consider the general rowdy atmosphere of this place I think anyone who gets offended enough to leave by the amusingly archaic insult "scoundrel" has no chance...
< 1252299807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i'd say that prolly applies to the internet in general.
< 1252299834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's archaic? i may have missed some nuance here...
< 1252299860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"scoundrel" evokes images of top hats and curled moustaches.
< 1252299903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats ehird severely with his cane O========O
< 1252299919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cane or double-ended penis
< 1252299922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you decide.
< 1252299933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _knew_ i shouldn't have tried to draw that.
< 1252300039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (Rare on topic message for newcomers)!((0)(1)):^!S(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^
< 1252300040 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110 ...too much output!
< 1252300083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders when the last one was, but is too lazy to find out
< 1252300089 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dons his scoundrel hat and 'stache*
< 1252300120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tenacity: yeah, dickwad.
< 1252300127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that humour i did there
< 1252300133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i defended my jokingly archaic insult
< 1252300144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and followed up a mention of it with a decidedly non-archaic insult!
< 1252300148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call me mr humour.
< 1252300176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i have this vague recall of #esoteric being an unusually friendly place, once upon a time.
< 1252300207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm friendly! as long as you always agree with me.
< 1252300220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, blame AnMaster. :P
< 1252300234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i blame the Malicious Duo
< 1252300295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i also have this vague recall of it often being on topic, but that may be just confirmation bias.
< 1252300317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i read logs from 2002.
< 1252300328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs were a rare topic
< 1252300354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bias it is, then.
< 1252300370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mostly life-related chat tbh. also i remember skimming through logs and seeing lament make a sarcastic comment about it being a channel about manga and lack of a social life, not esolangs.
< 1252300390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now manga we haven't had for a while i think
< 1252300393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though 2005-2007 was quite an esolangy era in my estimation
< 1252300407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Golden Age
< 1252300412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm totally the channel's official archivist.
< 1252300422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1252300441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1252300442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/04.01.01
< 1252300443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woggle
< 1252300544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: to reminisce of more esotericy times, try http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.10.05
< 1252300550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is worryingly long and esoteric
< 1252300583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric?
< 1252300587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds vaguely ontopic!
< 1252300591 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynch him
< 1252300600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's my point!
< 1252300607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it truly was a dark era.
< 1252300624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway we've gotten steadily more active over the years, never dropping more than slightly
< 1252300635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i suppose from a pure activity point of view this is the best!
< 1252300735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits back before he gets nostalgia overload
< 1252300746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can die of that.
< 1252300776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i used to do that back in the day. *AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*
< 1252301563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252302835 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252302840 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252303832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tenacity, new here?
< 1252303946 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
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< 1252304273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252304513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1252304529 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252304805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252307837 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With JSON, you can make the commas and colons optional to save some space. {"foo"1"bar"[1,2nulltrue3]}
< 1252307978 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are only needed to separate one number from another.
< 1252308128 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252308386 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252310399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252310400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252310568 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252311489 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't foo: shorter than "foo"?
< 1252311714 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then more commas are required, too be able to discern between '"foo1"' and '"foo", 1'. 'null', 'true' and 'false' would also need to be surrounded by separators.
< 1252311766 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 'null', 'true' and 'false' are the only word-like values, they do not need to be surrounded by separators.
< 1252311785 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252311952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this "you could make", or actually "you are right now allowed to make"? I mean, at least the RFC4627 defining the application/json MIME type has a BNF that explicitly requires value-separators (commas) and name-separators (colons).
< 1252312368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess you're allowed to make whatever you want; it's just that it sounded like "you can just do this and it'll work with existing JSON parsers and everything".
< 1252312543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it when two different course-info-reporting systems are in conflict with each other; one says there's a lecture right now and the other says there isn't. Of course I only noticed the former and now I'm at school with nothing to do
< 1252312848 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "you could make"... but then it wouldn't be JSON.
< 1252313457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oodi and Noppa, or something else?
< 1252313466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, those to
< 1252313468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two*
< 1252313478 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Oodi being the incorrect one this time
< 1252313501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter should get lecture information from the former, though. Except that I guess people only list exceptions in Noppa newsposts and so on.
< 1252313552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe the data transfer from one to another was more of a theoretical thing, actually; I think I remember manually adding lectures to Noppa.
< 1252313671 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a separate news item in Noppa saying that lectures start on tuesday
< 1252313687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual lecture time data probably states monday in both places.
< 1252313808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, well, given that Oodi is this mysterious hulking beast, I'm not surprised they don't list "hey, let's skip the technically first lecture and start on Tuesday" decisions there.
< 1252313902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the AI course, it was reasonably simple to get the per-course "admin" bit set for my Noppa account, but we didn't even try to get me officially registered as the course-responsible-person-guy in Oodi, it seemed far too difficult.
< 1252313918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, great
< 1252313954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what's going to happen to the AI course now that the professor who used to be lecturing it has left.
< 1252328458 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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< 1252328655 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252332037 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-6-0.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252335467 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1252339430 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-181.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252340767 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252341235 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252342459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Hard to keep a project under wraps and get an audience at the same
< 1252342459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time, it is. I do realise it was inevitable LKML would invade my
< 1252342459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personal space no matter how much I didn't want it to, but it would be
< 1252342459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rude of me to not respond.]]
< 1252342460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Con Kolivas, on the audacity of *someone on LKML benchmarking his scheduler!!!!!*
< 1252343248 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252343455 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-111-074.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252345219 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252345291 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252345462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD
< 1252345500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess he should administrate some of that anaesthetic to himself huh? Oh I'm so witty.
< 1252345800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252350089 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252351171 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
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< 1252351279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1252353053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ntp is good:
< 1252353055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 Sep 20:50:35 ntpdate[9865]: adjust time server 192.36.143.153 offset 0.000063 sec
< 1252353067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite accurate it managed to keep my clock
< 1252353170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's on my desktop though, it seems less able to sync on my laptop
< 1252355241 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.042874s here. Last sync was who knows how many days ago. But I set clock rate correction manually (not running ntpd):
< 1252355255 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252355357 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction parameters: Frequency: 1 957 969, Tick: 10 000.
< 1252356197 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252356403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I run ntpd and it has been running continuously for weeks now
< 1252356403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my laptop it is far from as good
< 1252356403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, also what are those parameters for/from?
< 1252356440 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They are kernel parameters controlling clock rate correction. Tick is left at default value, frequency is computed from ntp time step data.
< 1252356473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus... how much frequency is off varies over time due to stuff like temperature of the clock source in the computer and so on
< 1252356482 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tick is coarse correction and frequency is fine correction.
< 1252356509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why are you setting it manually?
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< 1252356773 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252356773 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252356773 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252356773 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-191.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252356773 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252356773 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252357117 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252357435 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357435 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357435 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252357435 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252357435 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1252357435 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357435 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357663 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357663 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357664 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357664 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357664 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357664 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357665 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357665 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357665 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357665 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357665 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357665 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357665 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357665 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357666 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357666 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357666 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357666 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357666 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357666 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357666 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357666 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357667 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357667 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357667 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357668 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357668 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357668 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357669 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357758 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@67-40-212-106.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-181.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-191.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357758 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357823 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357823 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357823 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357823 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252357882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari,
< 1252357882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: tick is coarse correction and frequency is fine correction.
< 1252357882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm ok
< 1252357882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : still, why not ntpd
< 1252357882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the netsplit
< 1252357882 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because its name ends in 'd'? I definitely want to keep everything listening to the net at minimum.
< 1252357883 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I wouldn't have a firewall, but still.
< 1252357883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, you can set it to not provide a server
< 1252357883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just be a client
< 1252357883 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. But clock on this computer isn't that important.
< 1252357885 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252357885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This desktop of mine has recently (er, well, "not always"; it has been quite a while) somehow caught the habit of having a horrible clock drift; something like 2 milliseconds per second. (So almost three minutes per day.)
< 1252357892 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast or slow?
< 1252357901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow, I think.
< 1252357911 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So looks like its losing ticks...
< 1252358117 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358118 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358119 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358119 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358119 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358120 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358120 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358120 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358120 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358120 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358120 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358120 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358121 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358121 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358121 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358121 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358121 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358121 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358122 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358122 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358122 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358122 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358123 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358123 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358124 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358124 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358124 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358124 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358125 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358125 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358125 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252358250 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@67-40-212-106.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-181.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-191.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358250 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358272 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358272 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358279 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-111-074.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358287 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358415 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1252358629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and dmesg prints out "Clocksource tsc unstable (delta = -152506783 ns)" immediately after loading the nvidia binary blob; might be related.
< 1252358689 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that could explain things...
< 1252358713 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252358753 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite odd that TSC (processor time stamp counter) would become unstable.
< 1252358788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternative blame-target is the vboxdrv module; it also prints out TSC/timing-related messages, like "vboxdrv: TSC mode is 'asynchronous', kernel timer mode is 'normal'."
< 1252358795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should investigate this some day.
< 1252358900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... why would someone advertise US healthcare insurance to a .co.uk email address?
< 1252359038 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spammers usually aren't very careful in restricting spam distribution...
< 1252360392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, should've quit while I was ahead; there was a "current_clocksource" file in sysfs, and since available_clocksources listed many (hpet, acpi_pm, jiffies, tsc) decided to echo those one by one into current_clocksource to see if the drift keeps happening for all. Current was hpet, acpi_pm didn't really cause any effects, but when I put "jiffies" in there, everything hung up "needs-sysrq"-badly.
< 1252360572 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, system clock freezing probably does not do good to system function.
< 1252360784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quite odd that TSC (processor time stamp counter) would become unstable.
< 1252360798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that here, due to cpu frequency changes
< 1252360811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my system use HPET
< 1252360887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I would recommend using not changing that except at boot
< 1252360896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the clocksource parameter
< 1252360904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I had crashes when changing on the fly
< 1252360970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1252361033 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252361034 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252361034 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252361034 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252361077 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252361125 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252361125 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1252361128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it seemed like a bad idea.
< 1252361152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't do cpufreq on the desktop (because it's unable to), so I'm still blaming one of those modules.
< 1252361187 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252361208 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( lack of shockwave player on linux (closely related to ":( who the fuck uses shockwave")
< 1252361284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a five minutes of incomprehension on "what, Ubuntu doesn't have the Flash player suitably packaged?", before realizing that not supporting Linux/PPC isn't really their fault.
< 1252361495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash and Shockwave are different
< 1252361499 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Shockwave has a Mac version
< 1252361512 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Ubuntu does have a Flash installer package that works fine
< 1252361576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have a PowerPC Flash installer package, because the only PowerPC-supporting Flash player is for OS X.
< 1252361627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know they are different. I don't think I knew about Shockwave's Mac version, though; but really, why would someone use shockwave nowadays?
< 1252361672 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lego site does :(
< 1252361680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only Shockwave app I can think of offhand is that Habbo Hotel chat-place.
< 1252362390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, for a moment I thought you meant there was some Flash app that installed Ubuntu
< 1252362401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252362828 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252363334 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a good flash game that makes him think, but not too hard
< 1252363429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggestions?
< 1252364729 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252365424 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252365492 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252365820 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252365826 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252365851 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1252366744 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252367304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can mes hab ball 4 slide pweaze yuhs neber gabezz it tew mes thankiez yuhz
< 1252367321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes what that's intended to say
< 1252367993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252369570 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of wish I couldn't tell what it says.
< 1252369801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should give this person the ball.
< 1252369817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But right now, I'm trying to apply brain bleach to my eyes
< 1252370406 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252371132 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252376785 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-110-078.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252377557 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252378714 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252378739 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is something wrong with my internet, I don't know who to ask (technical support says nothing is wrong on their end).
< 1252378753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inbound connections to port 70 don't work (it worked yesterday)
< 1252378783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firewall update?
< 1252378797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any software changes? Firewall changes? Router changes? Do inbound connections to other ports work?
< 1252378840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O no, I checked everything. The router settings are correct, the service works (connecting to localhost works), inbound connections on port 80 still work, outbound connections on port 70 work, and when using a proxy I get the same results.
< 1252378904 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked the DNS, tried stopping and restarting the service, rebooting the router, everything else too.
< 1252378948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it worked yesterday.
< 1252378957 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I ask for help?
< 1252378973 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I don't know, so I tried this channel for nearly no reason
< 1252379167 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pandora stores passwords in plain-text!
< 1252379207 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no software change or firewall change or router change.
< 1252379238 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port 25 doesn't work either
< 1252379276 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technical support says they didn't change anything, but I'm not sure they know about it correctly.
< 1252379277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you on a university/college network?
< 1252379282 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm at home.
< 1252379309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port 25 isn't always open anyways (I just started the SMTP server to test it, and it failed)
< 1252379316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/plain-text//
< 1252379339 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But port 70 is definitely work, by localhost, but not by remote. Port 80 works local and remote.
< 1252379413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it worked fine yesterday.
< 1252379688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252380761 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone explain to me why a P9500 is so much more expensive than a T9600. Please don't lecture me, etc. hardware is boring and I just want to know what reason I may have to buy a slower machine
< 1252382233 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex
< 1252385896 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1252385903 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :""Ubuntu", an african word meaning, "Gentoo is too hard for me""
< 1252385986 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252387261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252387401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing"
< 1252388535 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252388811 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252391641 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252392180 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252392434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: that joke's normally done with Debian rather than Gentoo
< 1252392648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "African word for 'can't install Debian'" is the form I'm more familiar with.
< 1252392743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See for example urbandictionary.com, which has as the first meaning: "1. ubuntu: Ubuntu is an ancient african word, meaning "I can't configure Debian"." (Admittedly that's not "install" there.)
< 1252392793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I did not know is that "ubuntu" apparently also means: "To ejaculate on a womans face."
< 1252393837 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252395499 0 :FireFly!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-pvxcqrirxlvuishl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252395607 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252395630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the structure of bantu languages in mind, ubuntu and gentu could easily be forms of the same word... not so with debian.
< 1252395656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bantu and ubuntu are, for one thing)
< 1252395681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: urbandictionary is full of duff meanings
< 1252396379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252396624 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-ykzmydlgwvhsrkre JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252396799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252396800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252398440 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252398941 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252399396 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252401651 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252401959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/bfs-faq.txt
< 1252401966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, I don't think it's actually written in brainfuck
< 1252401980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still trying to figure out if the name's a reference or not, though
< 1252403695 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252405276 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-widbmolsuaxshxmd JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252405338 0 :FireFly!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-rcaonzhbvsvrqtss JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252405946 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252407118 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252411020 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds
< 1252413024 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252415018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, it seems that Virgin Media have some sort of custom search page that comes up for pages like http://nosuchdomain.invalid
< 1252415031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily it has an opt-out which AFAICT a) actually works, and b) doesn't use cookies
< 1252415564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the slang term for that to "do a Verisign"?
< 1252415723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I wonder how many $'s are implied by all the legal text at http://www.icann.org/en/general/litigation-verisign.htm
< 1252415747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the lawyers that generated the text, I mean.)
< 1252415965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if .invalid has an entry for it in the root DNS servers
< 1252415979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a real TLD, after all; but there are (deliberately) no sites on it
< 1252416264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least k.root-servers.net just says NXDOMAIN.
< 1252416289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you choose k?
< 1252416322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the Kewlest root-server of them all.
< 1252416474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has this fancy anycast distributed thing: http://k.root-servers.org/
< 1252419422 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-3-78.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252419611 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good for you
< 1252419622 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ISP has an opt-out, it doesn't use cookies, the real deal
< 1252419625 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, it doesn't work
< 1252419635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc I just opted-out everyone else on the same connection
< 1252419638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's probably a good thing
< 1252419670 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicking the button didn't do anything
< 1252419673 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I switched to opendns
< 1252419693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NXDOMAIN-replacement pages seem to have long caches
< 1252419699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but new nonexistent pages work fine
< 1252420044 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252420047 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252420078 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1252420510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252420584 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252422341 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252422763 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252423095 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot"
< 1252423353 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252423646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing"
< 1252424741 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252425149 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252425497 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-24-243.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252425659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc :)
< 1252427130 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252427338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi, just home.
< 1252427341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago
< 1252427342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252427750 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-27-38.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252428436 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252429570 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252429824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have ELF and DWARF; where's ORC?
< 1252430105 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always ORK
< 1252430132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is DWARF an executable format?
< 1252430275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a debug info format
< 1252430338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I assume DWARF was a joke on ELF?
< 1252430363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I assume so as well
< 1252430408 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiki says it was, apparently
< 1252430412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ORC should be something suitably evil. perhaps some kind of report format for pointy-haired bosses?
< 1252430428 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be the Windows executable format
< 1252430447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, isn't that PE?
< 1252430454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... yes, it is
< 1252430473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the three dots?
< 1252430496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed you were refuting my statement
< 1252430520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think there's a *whoosh* hidden inside the first dot there
< 1252430528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252430540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using such a lossy compression scheme
< 1252430584 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not among my habits to tell people "you missed/misunderstood my joke"
< 1252430598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather just assume they're idiots and leave it at that
< 1252430830 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252430871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does me scoring top marks at a math exam signify I wonder...
< 1252430957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ehird isn't here. guess that is why he hasn't made any foul remark yet
< 1252431277 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adam_d
< 1252431808 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252432621 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got an idea for esolang. The actual runtime would execute code in tree form. Before running, the source would be run through preprocessor which built the tree for running, also containing operations to modify what's already built (move substrees, copy subtrees, delete subtrees). So that for any program X and tree Y, there exists Z such that X is prefix of Z and processes to Y.
< 1252432790 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-152-21.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252432828 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sheds a tear in memory of Malcom, the 1TB hard drive, who died before his time :'(
< 1252432887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any algorithms that have an exponential memory upper bound but a linear upper time bound?
< 1252432901 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No.
< 1252432913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah, as I suspected
< 1252433045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot use more memory than time in a sequential algorithm
< 1252433087 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the other way around, you can't use more than exponentially more time than you use memory.
< 1252433112 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So PSPACE is subset of EXPTIME.
< 1252433206 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, the preprocessor could patch anything already built into anything.
< 1252433412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what preprocessor?
< 1252433418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C one?
< 1252433429 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For an esolang...
< 1252433449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes?
< 1252433521 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its just at idea stage... One has to define what operations are supported and what their semantics are.
< 1252433628 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the preproc, insert node, delete subtree, copy subtree, move subtree could be good set of operations...
< 1252433645 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and alter node.
< 1252433688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alter ego
< 1252433838 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have various versions of source in one file, with next patching the previous, and the code quickly becomes too convoluted to follow...
< 1252433844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what about paste subtree
< 1252433849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it some evil editing script like
< 1252433884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a copy-and-paste preprocessor XD
< 1252433903 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, cut-n-paste => move, copy-n-paste => copy.
< 1252433963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yes hm but it should only have one copy buffer to hold the thing
< 1252433991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should be as an edit script or so
< 1252434000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly recordable XD
< 1252434052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The edit preprocessor being complicated isn't the idea. The idea is to make the actual program (parse tree) effectively unfollowable by patching it bit-by-bit.
< 1252434064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok
< 1252434095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, it would be another interesting preprocessor that was basically copy-and-paste operation (what then is the point of a preprocessor one could ask!)
< 1252434116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, would you have macros?
< 1252434177 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably no... Would make things too logical.
< 1252434221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, depends on the macros... I mean you can make quite a mess with both C macros and LISP macros
< 1252434340 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff like: ADD 1 SEQUENCE; ADD 1.1 PRINT "World"; ADD 1.2 PRINT "!"; ADD 1.1 PRINT " "; ADD 1.1 PRINT "Hello"; ALTER 1.2 PRINT ", ";
< 1252434433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm, what is 1.1 and so on
< 1252434440 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Node pointer.
< 1252434509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252434536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, obfuscation seems rather optional here, I mean, nothing prevents you from writing non-obfuscated programs?
< 1252434567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADD 1 SEQUENCE; ADD 1.1 PRINT "Hello world";
< 1252434569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume
< 1252434572 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252434611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, one thing that could make it more confusing would be "RENAME SEQUENCE"
< 1252434613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so
< 1252434617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to name 1 something else
< 1252434639 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ADD 1 SEQUENCE; ADD 1.1 PRINT "Hello, World!"; ... It also tends to become funky when building larger trees...
< 1252434649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok that is true
< 1252434679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what is the add sequence thing btw?
< 1252434687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it case sensitive?
< 1252434712 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SEQUENCE is just "run nodes below here in order" operator.
< 1252434726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252434759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, this some similar to my SQL+HTML combination kind of
< 1252434760 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it could be 'ADD 1 PRINT "Hello, World!"; if there was impiled SEQUENCE at root level.
< 1252434781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, declaring a tree through a complex upper caseish language
< 1252434833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was like INSERT THE ELEMENT p INTO THE ELEMENT body WHICH IS A CHILD OF html
< 1252434845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then references to first and second and so on
< 1252434865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was made to be very verbose English)
< 1252434892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember exact syntax I had, and the irc logs from then are on archive cd
< 1252434893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1252434902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime in this channel, 2008 or 2009
< 1252434941 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the references inside operations should maybe resolved when encountering them. Would do really funky things to code structure if one of the operations was GOTO...
< 1252434966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252435000 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't jump forward unless you make some really messy code.
< 1252435049 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course there would be equivalent to COBOL ALTER keyword: ALTER x.y.z GOTO a.b.c;... :-)
< 1252435113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"NVG server going down in a moment"
< 1252435117 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALTER from COBOL is quite probably the nastiest operation (from mainintance p.o.v.) ever seen in any mainstream language.
< 1252435170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I don't know what this ALTER does
< 1252435209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what about the actual language though, the bit that will then run
< 1252435220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be quite complex too IMO
< 1252435244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you could just run preprocessor and dump the result to understand how the program worked
< 1252435261 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change target of GOTO. And it had really nice interactions with segmentation. ALTER + segmentation => run away screaming...
< 1252435262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and IMO goto is hell even from a coding point of view
< 1252435280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, segmentation as in segmented memory on x86?
< 1252435290 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like manual swapping.
< 1252435295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu
< 1252435377 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obsoleted by virtual memory. Well, unless one wants to make stuff unmaintainable by mixing segmentation with ALTER.
< 1252435444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, so why would segmentation and ALTER interact badly?
< 1252435490 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, if segment containg ALTERed GOTOs was swapped out, the modifications to jumps were lost, so when reloading it, the jumps reset to their default destinations.
< 1252435502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1252435523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that sounds like "reset" rather than "swap out whatever is in memory"
< 1252435580 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap out really freed the memory occupied by segment.
< 1252435628 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there would be space to load another segment in.
< 1252435679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and discarded any data in it?
< 1252435732 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One probably also could swap out data segments. Those didn't reset when reloading.
< 1252435833 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it assumed that code segments are always 'clean' (and ALTER broke that assumption).
< 1252435956 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, this was on era when even virtual memory wasn't common on mainframes...
< 1252436047 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even mainframes didn't have multitasking but ran the tasks batch-style.
< 1252436384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, have you ever coded COBOL?
< 1252436410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, let me clarify that
< 1252436421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever had a job where you coded COBOL?
< 1252436492 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I haven't coded COBOL. Just ran across that information about COBOL once.
< 1252436591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL was actually less awful than many people give it credit. It was designed long before we had *any* clue what makes a good programming language.
< 1252436605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only other languages out there were the languages that COBOL was based on.
< 1252436611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and assembly.
< 1252436700 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN.
< 1252436718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algol and co. of course as well.
< 1252436893 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252436920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about LISP?
< 1252436923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it later on?
< 1252436954 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-27-38.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252437103 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was around the same time
< 1252437133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252437449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello world!
< 1252437455 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++>+<<<<-]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>-----. [459]
< 1252437468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello world!
< 1252437470 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :110 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>. [315]
< 1252437475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello world!
< 1252437478 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :126 ++++++++[>+++++++++>++++>+><<<<-]>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.>.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>++. [601]
< 1252437532 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252437546 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-3-78.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252437655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work
< 1252437836 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-103-56.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252437876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does what work?
< 1252437920 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf_txtgen, how does it do its thing
< 1252437965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, genetic algorithm based on the form "set constant, set some other constants based on the first, print stuff and use +/- as needed as you go along"
< 1252437985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genetic? heh
< 1252438027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well think so, or one of those other "find good value" thingies. I'm not sure if it does recombination or not
< 1252438029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask GregorR
< 1252438032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wrote it after all
< 1252438053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!source
< 1252438055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!info
< 1252438056 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null
< 1252438063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in that repo somewhere
< 1252438068 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252438101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know what a good type to represent a tree would be in python?
< 1252438110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything's a tree
< 1252438112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of tree
< 1252438120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, parse tree of loops for bf for example
< 1252438140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, trying to learn python so decided to write a trivial non-optimising bf interpreter in it
< 1252438195 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252438228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sanest way is to make [ have the stuff in the loop as it's "children"
< 1252438241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the sanest way I can think of
< 1252438253 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess just the basic thing: a class Node which contains a list of Nodes.
< 1252438268 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or call it whatever you want, I tend to call stuff like that Node.
< 1252438301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or a list containing either add,sub,print,read or a nested list?
< 1252438307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does python have atoms?
< 1252438367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, how does one define some arbitrary symbolic name to represent an abstract value?
< 1252438378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C you would generally use an enum or #define it
< 1252438390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erlang you just use an atom
< 1252438400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and what do you do in python?
< 1252438403 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1252438407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok
< 1252438419 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There appears to be a library for symbols, if that's what you want: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SymbolType
< 1252438436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is it built into the language itself like enums and such?
< 1252438442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a library"
< 1252438463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libraries typically aren't builtin
< 1252438464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't know how much a python library can change the language. Considering what can be done to perl...
< 1252438490 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252438496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can look at the examples on that page, I believe
< 1252438747 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252438774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to write a bf parser without tail recursion....
< 1252438776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait I have done this in C...
< 1252438784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it shouldn't be any harder...
< 1252438800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the tail recursion one would be a lot more elegant, sigh
< 1252438840 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252439050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, python has no switch?
< 1252439059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or case
< 1252439100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a hash table
< 1252439108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do you mean?
< 1252439134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, put functions in a dictionary and call the relevant entry?
< 1252439145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of switch (foo) { case x ... } you can have an AA with x as a key and call the function at foo
< 1252439150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1252439165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AA? Anti Alias?
< 1252439293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um one of the possible actions is returning from the function, I'm not sure how that could be acomplished
< 1252439299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return to the caller?
< 1252439302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the caller
< 1252439330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it return false or whatever in that case
< 1252439338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252439524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, any idea why: (loop, i) = parse_prog(program, i+1)
< 1252439526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work
< 1252439542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, python doesn't have pattern matching does it :(
< 1252439542 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, various ideas
< 1252439555 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to list them all in response to the problem description "doesn't work"
< 1252439556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed the obvious and elegant way
< 1252439562 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, it doesn't.
< 1252439564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ValueError: too many values to unpack
< 1252439569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting error
< 1252439588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you're returning a pair from there always?
< 1252439592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like you might not be
< 1252439600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I wasn't always
< 1252439605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it seems to work
< 1252439607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's odd
< 1252439704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok... wtf: mylist += 'foo' adds the element foo at the end as expected. mylist += ['foo', 'bar'] instead concatenates...
< 1252439708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is illogical
< 1252439722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I wanted to add the list as an element
< 1252439723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1252439758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what I'd expect from a dynamic-type language like that
< 1252439773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using + for concatenation is bad enough IMO :-P
< 1252439792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh true
< 1252439846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how does one reload a python module that one imported without exiting and restarting the REPL (or whatever you call the python interpreter shell thingy)
< 1252439867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1252439901 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252440228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah #python says it is reload(module) but "don't do it, because stuff will break"
< 1252440624 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252440628 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1252442499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, even worse:
< 1252442510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mylist += ("a", "pair")
< 1252442513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what that does?
< 1252442522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add as element or concat?
< 1252442553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me
< 1252442558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, concat
< 1252442561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes no sense
< 1252442571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might, if lists and pairs are the same thing
< 1252442576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether they are
< 1252442580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, pairs are immutable
< 1252442586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while lists aren't
< 1252442601 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're essentially considered lists in that sense
< 1252442610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I don't know enough either
< 1252442619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mypair += list
< 1252442621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't work
< 1252442628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they aren't pairs, they are tuples actually
< 1252442634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I use a 2-tuple here
< 1252442637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which end up the same way
< 1252442833 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-103-56.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252443324 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252443389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use in python to print a string with no following space or newline
< 1252443656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print x,
< 1252443763 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1252444735 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252445555 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Deewiant: I did not write bf_txtgen, calamari did. I didn't write most of what's in EgoBot, for that matter.
< 1252445574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, well true, but thought you wrote that one
< 1252445719 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-171.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252446165 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252449204 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252449648 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252449661 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252452160 0 :ehird!i=5b68f3f5@gateway/web/freenode/x-lfcohkepbcorgemk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252452168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have RSI now! :P
< 1252452377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:48:24 can mes hab ball 4 slide pweaze yuhs neber gabezz it tew mes thankiez yuhz
< 1252452377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.
< 1252452434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:08:36 s/plain-text//
< 1252452438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pandora stores passwords in WHERE?!
< 1252452456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:32:41 someone explain to me why a P9500 is so much more expensive than a T9600. Please don't lecture me, etc. hardware is boring and I just want to know what reason I may have to buy a slower machine
< 1252452460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would answer, but you said hardware is boring.
< 1252452469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:52:23 See for example urbandictionary.com, which has as the first meaning: "1. ubuntu: Ubuntu is an ancient african word, meaning "I can't configure Debian"." (Admittedly that's not "install" there.)
< 1252452477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure Mark Pilgrim initiated it with "configure Debian"
< 1252452513 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is it cache size or something?
< 1252452522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what are the two costs?
< 1252452533 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: like $100 difference
< 1252452550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: one's newer. perhaps one uses 45nm and the other uses 60nm or something
< 1252452557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: perhaps extra cache. a whole bunch of things.
< 1252452566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: who are you buying this from?
< 1252452578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erhid: Lenovo
< 1252452601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both have the same cache, both are 45nm
< 1252452618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: T9600 is more power-hungry
< 1252452624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your battery will last longer on the P9500
< 1252452627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't say how much by
< 1252452635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252452646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P9500 is slower in raw ghz, ofc
< 1252452660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both have the same bus speed...
< 1252452676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you care about battery life and don't need uber performance, get the P9500
< 1252452690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to save whole SECONDS on your gcc compile, get the T9600
< 1252452698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or if you want to save $$$, ofc)
< 1252452709 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks
< 1252452713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what model thinkpad, btw?
< 1252452719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: T500
< 1252452739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. a wonderful lugbook :-P
< 1252452776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1252452780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw, apparently there's more keyboard flex on the newer thinkpads of some models
< 1252452782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ymmv
< 1252452787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know
< 1252452789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the reviews
< 1252452792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252452829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I'm getting an old ThinkPad for the 4:3ness...
< 1252453008 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :(
< 1252453023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the downsides to a new computer
< 1252453033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love widescreen at 20" or bigger...
< 1252453043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, ehh, I like laptops that fit on my lap
< 1252453062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 14" 4:3 ThinkPad can fit on your lap, just like a 12" 16:10 ThinkPad
< 1252453068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that the latter is useless as a main machine
< 1252453100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but by getting an old model, I compromise on speed, battery life, heat and brighter displays :(
< 1252453198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to mitigate the battery life I plan to use an UltraBay battery pack to replace the optical drive, but iirc the 14" Tsomething gets around 4.5-5 hours battery; I imagine I'll get up to 6 hours with the pack
< 1252453212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't nearly as nice as the X200, which gets 9 hours on the 9-cell, but eh
< 1252453244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed, I can manage as long as I have two cores; using an SSD should mitigate any silly clockspeed or architecture differences compared to my current machine
< 1252453272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heat shouldn't be too much of a problem since thinkpads have always been cool
< 1252453277 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSD is too costly :(
< 1252453291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for a brighter display, nothing I can do. :-(
< 1252453303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which kills any chance of using it outside, I guess
< 1252453307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to see
< 1252453325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah. on the other hand I'll probably save by getting an older model
< 1252453328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still
< 1252453338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: downgrade the CPU to the minimum and add an SSD :-P
< 1252453351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ssd is tiny
< 1252453356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1252453360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max laptop drive nowadays, about 320gb
< 1252453367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lenovo offers 128 and 256gb ssds
< 1252453413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly even with the base CPU it might be too expensive, but it'll be way, way faster in general use than upping the CPU to the top option
< 1252453435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not when doing CPU-intensive stuff, but that's so fast nowadays as tobe irrelevant
< 1252453437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to be
< 1252453626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lenovo rival apple in markup cost, which is irritating but understandable
< 1252453686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it would be possible to rip out the backlight and replace it with a LED one :D
< 1252453706 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they do allow unserviced upgrades
< 1252453724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I'm not even sure if you can *do* that to a display
< 1252453744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd have no hope of finding a 14" display of the right dimensions, with a LED backlit, and the right connectors
< 1252453756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and a high resolution like you can get on the ThinkPad stock ones
< 1252453768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply because there was no ThinkPad produced with such a display
< 1252453779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :(
< 1252453803 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPad is one of very few computers with the most important thing nowawadays :(
< 1252453815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard, you mean?
< 1252453816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also matte
< 1252453840 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those matter, but the absolute most important thing is the nipple mouse
< 1252453864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I'd be happy with Apple's wonderful large multitouch trackpad too, but failing that, yep
< 1252453881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the looks of it, ThinkPads' trackpad is woefully bad
< 1252453886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant
< 1252453892 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried the multitouch touchpad though
< 1252453893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying
< 1252453912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I'll use it for is scrolling, since it looks bad. :P
< 1252453916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the only *unsolved* problem I have is the display brightness, I think
< 1252453930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use pageup/down for scrolling... call me old-fashioned
< 1252453951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great way to give yourself a headache and slow yo udown while you try and find where you left off
< 1252453956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you
< 1252454053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why the T500 over the T400, btw/
< 1252454054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*?
< 1252454071 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis size obv
< 1252454090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: then you want the W700ds, duh
< 1252454101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love that extraneous second screen
< 1252454108 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252454121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and RAID. and quad-core.
< 1252454129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a 3 minute battery life!!!
< 1252454131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252454205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what I'll do!
< 1252454219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a non-booting 14" 4:3, rip out the insides
< 1252454223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop the insides of an X200 in
< 1252454226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila
< 1252454246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, saw the T400s display's sides off
< 1252454251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252454258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the T500's, actually, to get the height
< 1252454259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop it in
< 1252454260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila!!
< 1252454271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't I think of that before.
< 1252454382 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252455601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252456701 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252456710 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252456723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1252456781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252456795 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252456808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, ChatZilla appears to be vaguely passable on windows
< 1252456814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... unexpected, I guess
< 1252456820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how much it sucks on OS X
< 1252456865 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has not tried it on OS X and so cannot comment
< 1252456874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful
< 1252456935 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will take your word for it and subsequently ignore it and some later and more relevant time
< 1252456947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it and/it at/
< 1252456969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's a very confusing sentence
< 1252457243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252457251 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252457256 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252457846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://explainxkcd.com/
< 1252458050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful
< 1252458068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This was wrong. David Gest has never had a sexually transmitted infection and did not have Ms Minnelli's dog killed." --The Daily Mail
< 1252458080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a retraction letter
< 1252458111 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1252458262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an easy mistake to make
< 1252458288 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they keys are like right next to each other
< 1252458309 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you know you're awesome when you are referencing bash :/)
< 1252458326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"awesome"
< 1252459240 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=1289971.1289983 <-- "Context-Aware Scanning for Parsing Extensible Languages"
< 1252459914 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... a C++ parser?
< 1252460471 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"."
< 1252460882 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252461070 0 :Amiral_!n=amiral@gob75-2-81-56-65-10.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252461075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Amiral_
< 1252461077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who're you
< 1252461085 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ;)
< 1252461093 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was coming from http://frox25.no-ip.org/~mtve/wiki/
< 1252461095 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::]
< 1252461141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1252461143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1252461155 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, i m searching the guy ;)
< 1252461168 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need some help from his script
< 1252461177 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's not there ?
< 1252461196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure he is.
< 1252461198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve:
< 1252461207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:53] === mtve: away with message “Disconnected now, messages are logged”
< 1252461210 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool :]
< 1252461213 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i saw that
< 1252461216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What script, anyway?
< 1252461222 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigtran
< 1252461238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the heck it does.
< 1252461238 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know ss7 sctp protocol ?
< 1252461243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252461357 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, when do you think he can come ?
< 1252463189 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-109-214.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252463892 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252463899 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252463922 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1252463941 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1252464479 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252468342 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252471100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he could hack capability-based security into linux with users...
< 1252471248 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252471815 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing"
< 1252472016 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1252472095 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252472230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb coppro
< 1252475169 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252475186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1252475196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird
< 1252475708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reboot"
< 1252475926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252475951 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252476306 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it, I accidentally did "rm blah.avi.00* > blah.avi", instead of cat. now I have to download it again >:[
< 1252476660 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1252477068 0 :Patashu[CyberOrc!n=Patashu@c122-106-162-185.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252477088 0 :Patashu[CyberOrc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252478447 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-3-119.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252478727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252479904 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252481458 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1252481605 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252482426 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252482703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1252483138 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252483199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252483200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252483670 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252490586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which concepts are related to self-organizing maps? Yahoo knows: http://correlator.sandbox.yahoo.net/index.php/concepts/self-organizing+map
< 1252490616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly it makes sense, but I find the fact that ""The Dark Horse Book of Witchcraft" is probably related to self-organizing map" a bit dubious.
< 1252490768 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252492037 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252495117 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252496357 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252496357 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252496358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252496358 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252496449 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252497036 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-109-214.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252497036 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252497036 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252497644 0 :Nowicjusz!n=ppp@89.72.61.249 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252497649 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252499725 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252500397 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252500591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone
< 1252500769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, you nobody.
< 1252500783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1252500829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to be contrasty.
< 1252500914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... today presented a data point in favour of the theory that knowing Java is nearly always sufficient to get a job
< 1252501050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My personal experience has shown that knowing Perl is the most useful thing; two out of three of my employers have been mostly in search of someone who speaks Perl.
< 1252501062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I know Perl too
< 1252501079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, though, I've been employed to teach Java to first-year undergraduate students
< 1252501082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alongside my PhD
< 1252501094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether Java or Perl as a first language would be meaner
< 1252501098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably Java, tbh
< 1252501110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my friends had Perl and Python as her first two languages, and both seemed to go quite well
< 1252501121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Java you also can't be blamed when they turn out to be school-shooters, because "everyone else's doing it too".
< 1252501156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"school-shooter"?
< 1252501171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A person with a gigantic gun, which shoots schools out of it.
< 1252501199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be helpful over here, most of the UK faces massive competition for the good schools
< 1252501214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a perpetual row about what the fairest way to allocate schooling to peopel is
< 1252501217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*people is
< 1252501232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what doesn't help is that the government are trying to get around the problem by attempting to pass laws to make all schools identical
< 1252501233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way is to disqualify people who write "peopel".
< 1252501241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the shot-out schools are very good, though.
< 1252501247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a) impossible, and b) a bad idea even if it were possible
< 1252501393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, unless bureaucracy intervenes, my Master's thesis will be accepted/graded next Monday; apparently it will also be the official graduation day, even though there's some formal diploma-distribution event a month later.
< 1252501560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, well done
< 1252501569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was accepted and graded a few months ago
< 1252501572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it about?
< 1252501594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Methods for Spectral Envelope Estimation in Noise Robust Speech Recognition"
< 1252501619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experience in my department is that such master's projects always go wrong
< 1252501623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it worked for you, then well done
< 1252501669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did take quite a while longer than it should, the work part was more interesting than the writing-about-work part.
< 1252501687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually rather enjoyed the writeup on mine
< 1252501705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helped that I didn't leave it until after the project was finished
< 1252501803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally I just wrote it in a month or so, because this "Helsinki Graduate School in Computer Science and Engineering" application deadline is next Friday, and they only accept graduated applicants. (The Academy of Finland -funded project my salary's been paid up to now is going to end this year, and the department would prefer it if I got some independent funding, which is what Hecse would provide.)
< 1252501842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you almost guaranteed to pass?
< 1252501844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with a good grade?
< 1252501889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, it was nervewracking wondering whether I would get top marks or fail altogether; a quirk in the marking scheme meant that those were the only two plausible results
< 1252501996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the supervisor's and professor's statement about it suggested a 5 (out of 5); the approving Council or Conclave or what-ever probably theoretically speaking can decide anything the like, but I think failing is really ludicrously unlikely. As far as I know they could still downgrade it to 4, though.
< 1252502009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the like/they like/
< 1252502054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The results are sent via email the same evening, at least I won't have to wait long.
< 1252502116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some sort of quasi-official guideline that they shouldn't be allowed to give the maximum grade without consulting a second professor, but it was a bit unclear whether that's actually observed.
< 1252502190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK, the top few grades, the bottom few grades, and all fails, together with a random sample of the others, have to be reviewed by a second University
< 1252502208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I hope it doesn't mean they go all "okay, well, we gave it to this another professor and now you'll have to wait a month more before graduating", because in that case I'll have to do some sort of difficult handwaving in this graduate school application.)
< 1252502209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they interview the students, too
< 1252502260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds very serious.
< 1252502275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not always, because the grade has to be fixed before the interview
< 1252502291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no way to mess up your grade by screwing up the interview
< 1252502311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the interview doesn't match up with what the 'external examiners' think the grade should be, the university who set the exam/coursework gets into trouble
< 1252502355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw; I was hoping they'd make the students spin a sort of wheel-of-fortune style pass/fail wheel.
< 1252502372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be evil
< 1252502386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they could broadcast it on live national TV.
< 1252502426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"graduation" is pretty close (lexically) to "gameshow" anyway.
< 1252502468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English or Finnish?
< 1252502498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English. Er, okay, so it's just the same initial letter. It's still closer than, say, a whale.
< 1252502687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's as close in Finnish; "valmistuminen" versus "visailuohjelma". (I had to peek at the dictionary to see what a game show officially is.)
< 1252502712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there unofficial Finnish names for game shows too, then/
< 1252502816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not sure "visailuohjelma" has exactly the same connotations as "game show". I guess it is pretty close.
< 1252502830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such concepts normally don't translate too accurately
< 1252502856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that's probably a good way to see how repetitively derivative something is
< 1252502874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, I suspect "reality TV" translates more or less perfectly into many different languages
< 1252502886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it didn't really evolve, it just more or less got copied everywhere
< 1252502894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now, thankfully, people are getting bored of it again
< 1252502951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is an equivalent Finnish word.
< 1252503046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi-Wikipedia says "visailu" was a portmanteau of "visainen kilpailu", literally something like "a difficult contest" except that the word for 'difficult' is a sort of old-fashioned one. (fi:ohjelma is just "program" or "show".)
< 1252503071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly very "difficult contest" any more, at least in many cases.
< 1252503079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not exactly "reality" TV either
< 1252503095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the efforts the producers go to artificially contrive what happens
< 1252503169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they've started a new Big Brother round here recently; that's what I most associate with "reality" TV.
< 1252503178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've just finished the penultimate round over here
< 1252503189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, channel 4 have said one more year, then they give up
< 1252503201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite possible that one of the smaller TV networks will buy the rights off them, though
< 1252503251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently this is our fifth round.
< 1252503292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules seem to be slightly different from place to place
< 1252503314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I'm almost 100% convinced Wikipedia has a page somewhere summarising the differences, even though I don't know this from personal experience
< 1252503392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They certainly have a lot of material about the show.
< 1252503393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(disambiguation)
< 1252503407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All kinds of very colorful tables.
< 1252503407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, the bottom of that page
< 1252503433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :44 entries
< 1252503444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including "Big Brother Second Life"
< 1252503456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some are redirects, though, and a couple are stubs
< 1252503459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also separate page for each of the five seasons for the Finnish version; I assume they extend the same courtesy to all other countries too.
< 1252503464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, definitely
< 1252503475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_2008_(Finland) is very... tabular.
< 1252503559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "Variations in the format" section of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(TV_series) there's something like a summary of differences.
< 1252503627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I'm reading that now
< 1252503644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, as is my habit, trying to work out if Big Brother is Turing-complete
< 1252503644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In Germany a new version of the show started: Big Brother - Das Dorf (Big Brother - The Village). -- This was the first version supposed to run for years (without a predetermined end). It was set in a small artificial village including a church tower, a marketplace, 3 houses, 3 working areas -- The season ended after 363 days in February 2006 because of low ratings."
< 1252503645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no
< 1252503686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castaway_2000
< 1252503705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which actually predated Big Brother, and for which it's arguable whether it was reality TV or not
< 1252503716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, it was actually quite good, which means that it probably wasn't
< 1252503861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Wikipedia calls it reality TV; most people at the time called it a documentary, but that's possibly because reality TV hadn't been invented at the time
< 1252503932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I was continuously expecting some sort of gruesome massacre when reading that description page, but apparently it never happened.
< 1252503936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it's just been hushed.
< 1252504218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was no news of that presented to the outside world
< 1252504229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, all the information we got is what the contestants themselves broadcast
< 1252504236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very different from the way most reality TV works
< 1252504440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the seventh UK series, Big Brother became "twisted". Every week, housemates' mental states were put to the test as Big Brother tried to break them. As a result of this, many housemates broke down." That sounds unintentionally hilarious. (Possibly only to me.)
< 1252504463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the housemates are some sort of machines, which break down every once in a while and are then "serviced".
< 1252505291 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably they were indeed "serviced".. in a mental clinic^W garage.
< 1252505491 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252505712 0 :JoelyWoely!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252505769 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252505769 0 :JoelyWoely!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252505886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. "Teen Big Brother -- was originally shot in advance -- to air in 2003 as an educational item, screened as part of Channel 4's 4Learning programming. -- On Day Six/Seven, Jade Dyer and Tommy Wright became the first Big Brother UK contestants to have sex on the show in its history. According to The Independent, this was the first real-life sexual act shown on British television --"
< 1252505892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that must've been very educational indeed.
< 1252506047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they actually showed it in schools
< 1252506056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know because I was in school at the time
< 1252506071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they were obviously trying to contrive the situation to increase as much as possible the chance that there would be sex involved
< 1252506118 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252507790 0 :MatPVB!n=test@65.82.213.44 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252507818 0 :MatPVB!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252508956 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252509177 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252509338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and what doesn't help is that the government are trying to get around the problem by attempting to pass laws to make all schools identical
< 1252509345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the norwegian system
< 1252509351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it fail just as badly there?
< 1252509356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only slightly exaggerated)
< 1252509455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the norwegian school system is in constant need of improvement. many people think the main problem is that it has _too_ frequent reforms, so it never gets to settle into something that actually works...
< 1252509543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really know how badly it fails, only that everyone complains about it
< 1252509600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, private/alternative schools are relatively rare, although that too may start to change either way after the election
< 1252509690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left wing seems to want to reduce alternatives but under the pretext of making the state schools better instead, while the right wing wants to allow more private and alternative schools
< 1252509750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the teachers complain about too much bureaucracy ... every reform comes with lots of new forms to fill out :D
< 1252509793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it's so bad they barely have time to teach
< 1252509888 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like the US.
< 1252509952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least we don't have metal detectors ;D
< 1252510120 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've consolidated that by moving all the schools into airports.
< 1252510142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the scary thing is I don't even know whether you're joking
< 1252510167 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252510214 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were a select few particularly troublesome schools that had metal detectors in the US after the Columbine incident, and because news from the US tends to become distorted towards the absurd as it leaves our borders (oh who am I kidding, it's distorted towards the absurd in our borders), oerjan probably believes we all have metal detectors in our schools :P
< 1252510249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1252510320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use handheld metal detectors at some schools in the UK, apparently
< 1252510325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking for knives rather than guns
< 1252510411 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they weren't looking for guns here.
< 1252510417 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were looking for golden idols to other gods.
< 1252510420 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For our God is a jealous God.
< 1252510476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252510513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well the norwegian school system is in constant need of improvement. many people think the main problem is that it has _too_ frequent reforms, so it never gets to settle into something that actually works... <-- sounds like in Sweden
< 1252510517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1252510561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is the Swedish government trying to make all schools identical too?
< 1252510577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not sure. Yeah it is that bad here...
< 1252510578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :induction suggests "sounds like almost everywhere", then
< 1252510595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: what about the US?
< 1252510616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think different political parties in the current government as well as the opposition all pull in different directions
< 1252510633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be different, or might not, depending on how Republican and/or Democratic the school system is
< 1252510658 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252510763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the current school system is quite left wing ("social democratic" party was the head of the last government) but the current conservative government (to people from US: This means slightly left of your Democrats ;P) wants to change it iirc
< 1252510792 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-159.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252510800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :schooling's one of the most powerful ways to consolidate your power for future generations
< 1252510810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the social democratic party wins again I'm sure they will change it again
< 1252510812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can educate everyone to vote for you, then you can effectively regain your power several years later
< 1252511985 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252512062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hm, it may seem that those who guessed the mythbusters had got to "good haken"'s dimension were right
< 1252512300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't usually read the forum
< 1252512307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wasn't aware of ths
< 1252512309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this*
< 1252512334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but do you remember good haken?
< 1252512370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes, slightly
< 1252512387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vaguely" might be a better word
< 1252512420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vaguely" is an excellent word. everyone should use it more often.
< 1252512423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks
< 1252512498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I typo it or something?
< 1252512511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i noted
< 1252512566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might vaguely recall someone here who occasionally uses that word, though
< 1252512693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ...
< 1252517605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing"
< 1252519239 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252519839 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252520817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252520820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there?
< 1252520827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think python just behaved very strange:
< 1252520829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> -3 % 60
< 1252520829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57
< 1252520834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that strange?
< 1252520840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a plausible way to do modulo
< 1252520845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the most consistent one
< 1252520850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is quite different from every other language I seen iirc
< 1252520872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three ways to do modulo with negative numbers IIRC, and they're relatively equally common
< 1252520883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252520897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if I instead wanted the reminder?
< 1252520904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the remainder
< 1252520918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-3 / 60 = -1, with remainder 37
< 1252520922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh righ hm
< 1252520927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*57
< 1252520928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 57
< 1252520931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252520938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what then is it when it returns -3?
< 1252520945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is iirc what C99 does
< 1252520953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong
< 1252520967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's doing the modulo with negative numbers rather than positive
< 1252520977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252520981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc that is what C99 does
< 1252521043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell ((-3) `mod` 60, (-3) `rem` 60)
< 1252521054 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(57,-3)
< 1252521082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252521095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that seems exactly opposite of what ais523 said?
< 1252521109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that one is printed in reverse order or something
< 1252521110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1252521120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rem gave -3 and mod 57?
< 1252521129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume rem = reminder?
< 1252521131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252521138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that is the remainder
< 1252521138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -3 / 60 = -1, with remainder 57
< 1252521140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*remainder
< 1252521140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it depends on whether you think 0 or -1 is the correct answer for -3 / 60
< 1252521167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell ((-3) `divMod` 60, (-3) `quotRem` 60)
< 1252521169 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((-1,57),(0,-3))
< 1252521197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... what is the usual way of rounding...
< 1252521215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "usual"
< 1252521224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards even numbers, obviously!
< 1252521262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes zero sense here
< 1252521304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually integer division for positive integers round towards 0 (or towards -inf if you prefer that), but those work out the same for positive integers
< 1252521306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for haskell, div rounds down, quot towards zero iirc
< 1252521347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252521357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... no one would round *up* for positive integers
< 1252521366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for integer division I mean)
< 1252521394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell map (uncurry div) [(-1,-3), (-1,3), (1,-3), (1,3)]
< 1252521396 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,-1,-1,0]
< 1252521423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell map (uncurry quot) [(-1,-3), (-1,3), (1,-3), (1,3)]
< 1252521425 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,0,0,0]
< 1252521789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme (R5RS) has "remainder" and "modulo" separately; for arguments (13, 4), (-13, 4), (13, -4) and (-13, -4) modulo returns 1, 3, -3, -1 and remainder returns 1, -1, 1, -1.
< 1252521848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made that way so that for any nonzero n1, n2, you have (= n1 (+ (* n2 (quotient n1 n2)) (remainder n1 n2))); quotient rounds towards zero there.
< 1252521933 0 :labo!n=labo@rt.2.nat.stcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252523263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question: Silly programming assignment asking about implementing a prime checking function in python, it also specifies that the prime checking function has to make use of the function you wrote just before (which was a function testing if a function is evenly dividable by another)... any idea about a non-naive prime checking function that use it?
< 1252523276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I find implementing the naive one so... pointless
< 1252523284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dividing a function by a number is rather tricky
< 1252523301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... and dividing a function by another is still harder
< 1252523317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err
< 1252523320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer I meant
< 1252523321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not function
< 1252523334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for that typo
< 1252523365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're polynomials it works nicely
< 1252523395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed
< 1252523437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one variable, at least. otherwise i think you need to use that gröbner base stuff which i've never really learned
< 1252523539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't wikipedia has any sort of "list of algorithms for prime test"
< 1252523540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1252523546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at ais523
< 1252523572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the decisions on what are kept and what are deleted went past the sanity threshhold years ago
< 1252523595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean there *was* such a list at some point?
< 1252523637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly not
< 1252523650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the side-effect of deletion discussions being unpredictable is that people don't try to start the article in the first palce
< 1252523651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*place
< 1252523657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primality_test isn't good enought?
< 1252523663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-t
< 1252523754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well... any answer to my original question (+plus typo correction)
< 1252523799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-+
< 1252523820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1252523833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was irresistible)
< 1252523837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah
< 1252523890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no
< 1252523927 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-84.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252523972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, meh
< 1252524064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how large are the numbers you'll be tested with?
< 1252524087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my suggestion for a silly algorithm is to test whether n divides into (n-1) factorial
< 1252524104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252524106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works, but it's kind of inefficient above single digits
< 1252524117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers how that would work
< 1252524131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, why does that work?
< 1252524137 0 :xfire35!n=xfire35@cpc2-pete3-0-0-cust800.pete.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252524142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also have to check to see if the number's a perfect square
< 1252524156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, suppose the number has two different factors both greater than 1
< 1252524160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which all non-square composite numbers do
< 1252524166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they'll both be involved in the factorial
< 1252524169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the division will work
< 1252524171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a prime, it won't
< 1252524175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for the square of a prime, it won't
< 1252524180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252524197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it should work for a square except maybe 4 i think
< 1252524206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have both n and 2n in there
< 1252524247 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! I have a question about Turing-complete languages: How do I prove that I have made one?
< 1252524248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the example of the function used uses 347 as one example for a prime
< 1252524249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sqrt n and 2*sqrt n)
< 1252524250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, good point
< 1252524255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to think, 4 doesn't divide 6 :-)
< 1252524256 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252524260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is for this purpose rather large
< 1252524264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: normally by writing a compiler from some simple TC language into yours
< 1252524270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an interpreter for a simple TC language in yours
< 1252524273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell product [1..346]
< 1252524275 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :83786109731741519093102185774271060272617123899294938462545650103958267551816999632384597105781115095746538999305576622259820276406705054815151795675299977497130708316332112015853587961035548260985018324781142346741012571342381443403244375423925845246705116571375322097424190407461087058820073115195230214239315368221366956527807550877343514240476697131078048765701822673835389603217404839039032161799288445236044563772647739851207128764035103255967542618
< 1252524283 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small enough
< 1252524283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck's normally used as the comparison language for that purpose
< 1252524305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to go naive or more efficient :/
< 1252524307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you write a compiler from brainfuck into your language, then your language is TC
< 1252524311 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that prove it is Turing-complete though?
< 1252524314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "smart naive" of course
< 1252524329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: because brainfuck is tc, and your language can do anything that brainfuck can do (due to the compilation)
< 1252524333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, check only numbers up to sqrt(n) and check only odd ones)
< 1252524334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must also be at least tc
< 1252524342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err typo
< 1252524350 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, thanks :)
< 1252524358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: turing-complete is defined as being able to compile any turing machine to your language
< 1252524360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It proves your language can simulate something with power equivalent to that of a universal Turing machine
< 1252524381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although you can do the calculation with an actual turing machine, using another language that's already been proven TC works well
< 1252524399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, if you have something else that a turing machine can be compiled into (i.e. something also tc) then you can go via that
< 1252524410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck, P'', SK combinatory calculus are all good source languages
< 1252524430 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't proving that there is transform algorithm from some language and that if the original halts, the result will too enough?
< 1252524435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do C++ if you feel ambitious
< 1252524452 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be... interesting
< 1252524463 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: Is there description somewhere?
< 1252524489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35, what about using BCT? (or has it been mentioned already?)
< 1252524492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you have to prove the other way round too, that if the original doesn't halt, the result won't
< 1252524502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc BCT seemed popular for proving TCness recently
< 1252524508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good point
< 1252524529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was wondering why _you_ of everyone skipped BCT in that list
< 1252524540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT's good if the language you're trying to prove TC doesn't have much in common with other langs
< 1252524562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if it doesn't have any sense of numbers, or data and code have a distance restriction between them
< 1252524566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how was BCT proven TC btw?
< 1252524574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proof must have been.... interesting
< 1252524576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: via tag systems
< 1252524578 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there another way to prove TC, I have already nearly written one interpreter
< 1252524583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proving BCT simulates a tag system is pretty simple
< 1252524583 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252524585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how was tag systems proven TC?
< 1252524602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: interpreter for what?
< 1252524615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: all TCness proofs can be expressed in terms of being an interpreter for something
< 1252524616 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language I am writing. I also did another one a while back
< 1252524637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just writing an interp for your language isn't enough to prove anything but an upper bound for its class, and you're looking for a lower bound
< 1252524664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35, oh we didn't mean that, of course such an interpreter is very useful too. We meant writing an interpreter _in_ your language, _for_ a known TC language
< 1252524669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a program in your language, or a compiler to your language, are the only ways to prove TCness
< 1252524682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually, writing an interpreter is enough to prove it "TC or less"
< 1252524683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1252524687 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I gathered that. It would just be annoying to do so.
< 1252524690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nah
< 1252524695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes
< 1252524701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it to put an upper bound on its class
< 1252524702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unless you write it in a super-TC languag
< 1252524704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language*
< 1252524707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah exactly
< 1252524720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: BCT is super simple though
< 1252524724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, if you write an interp for something in BackFlip, for instance, you know it's termination-testable
< 1252524737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep
< 1252524760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how was backflip proven termination-testable?
< 1252524771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by proving it always terminates
< 1252524797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also writing a bf interpreter in a language isn't enough to prove said language _exactly_ TC. It would be "TC or more"
< 1252524812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write a bf interpreter in banana scheme easily enough
< 1252524813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what "proving something TC" means to me
< 1252524821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TC or more" and "TC" are the same thing
< 1252524826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, banana scheme /is/ TC; it can just do more as well
< 1252524830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm ok
< 1252524846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would probably be turing-_hard_, by analogy with NP
< 1252524863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252524866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well... what would you call proving "no less, and no more than TC"
< 1252524882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np hard means that if it's P, then so are all NP-complete problems, but not vice versa?
< 1252524903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TC == can compute every Turing-computable function
< 1252524916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np hard means anything in np can be reduced to it, but it's not necessarily in np
< 1252524923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "TC and computable"
< 1252524925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np-complete means it is also in np
< 1252524939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait... NP-complete being a subset of P? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense
< 1252524962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if P=NP, then NP-complete is a subset of P
< 1252524973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if P != NP, then they're disjoint
< 1252524978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523 is confusing the definition of np-hard/complete with the p vs. np question itself
< 1252524985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort-of the essence of np-completeness
< 1252524989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wouldn't that mean that basically every crypto except OTP would be seriously fucked?
< 1252524996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, yes; although, I think my statements are probably true anyway
< 1252525009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well possibly quantum cryptos too, but don't know enough about them to be sure
< 1252525016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true but imprecise
< 1252525030 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't confuse symmetric and asymmetric crypto.
< 1252525047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if P != NP, there are things strictly between P and NP-complete
< 1252525049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm, only asymmetric ones would be fucked?
< 1252525054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that would be bad enough though
< 1252525085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what would that class be?
< 1252525109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum cryptography doesn't care about P=NP; it's based on physical principles, not mathematical ones
< 1252525132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a few asymmetric cryptosystems not based on the factorization problem; none of them very widespread or (maybe) quite as well-analyzed as you might want.
< 1252525135 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least if quantum computers with large bitness became practical, they would totally fuck most asymmetric algorithms. But would be probably quite hopeless against symmetric stuff like AES-256...
< 1252525166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: QBP is probably going to end up between P and NP, isn't it?
< 1252525168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the discussion had went away from the factorization already. Heh. You are so fast.
< 1252525174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, ofc, P = NP, but that seems rather unlikely
< 1252525200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well, grover's algorithm gives you an O(n^2) improvement for any algorithm at all
< 1252525204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably, but it's not proved even assuming P != NP afaik
< 1252525213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's suspected that for general algorithms, you don't get an improvement better than that
< 1252525223 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah. AES-256 is still 2^128 work even with it.
< 1252525237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep, neither P != QBP nor QBP != NP is known
< 1252525257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there is a proof that if P != NP then you can construct something in an intermediate class. iirc it uses something diagonalization-like
< 1252525325 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there may be some weakness in AES that can't be exploited with classical computer but could with quantum computer. But one can say that generic attacks won't cut it.
< 1252525377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i don't recall we actually went by factorization at all this time ;)
< 1252525386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yay my encrypted partition is safe!
< 1252525395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(against quantum computers)
< 1252525404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't that what AnMaster's programming assignment all the way up there was about?
< 1252525407 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also heard about some groups which have DDH probably outside BQP (but of course still in NP).
< 1252525408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least it seems so)
< 1252525415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Primality testing, factorization; pretty close.
< 1252525427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, just prime testing, also it was an unrelated conversation really
< 1252525438 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252525455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ehird is here, everyone keep silent
< 1252525465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a for loop in python always "for i in "? Or is there "C-style" for loop too?
< 1252525471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: former
< 1252525476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i in xrange(1,10)
< 1252525477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so while loop it is then
< 1252525485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what are you trying to do?
< 1252525485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I would run out of memory quickly
< 1252525491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1252525493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xrange is a generator
< 1252525494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no memory used
< 1252525499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why you use xrange instead of range
< 1252525504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, prime test
< 1252525510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xrange is a generator
< 1252525512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no memory used
< 1252525514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1252525519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, while "range" isn't?
< 1252525523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252525528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in python 3, range = xrange
< 1252525531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no xrange
< 1252525533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :range itself is a cruft
< 1252525538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*relic, not cruft
< 1252525543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how do you get a range?
< 1252525548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xrange
< 1252525549 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you are using that (p - 1)! == -1 (mod p), use modular multiplication... Keeps numbers down.
< 1252525555 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You know what I meant.
< 1252525562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you can do sequence operations on it
< 1252525570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really need a list, list(xrange(...))
< 1252525636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well I wasn't going for that one, I don't want bad marks (nor do I want to be held responsible for the teacher getting a heart attack!)
< 1252525656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252525669 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252525693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows sure is vaguely annoying when it breaks
< 1252525698 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 6th-degree version of AKS? :->
< 1252525728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram got six degrees just for writing that awful book and released a special edition for it?
< 1252525730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deary me!
< 1252525745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, did you see that bit about the assignment specifying that you had to make use of a function that is: f(a,b): return A % B == 0
< 1252525761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(newlines + indention omitted for brevity)
< 1252525763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your uni sucks btw
< 1252525771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure.
< 1252525773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "def" omitted too
< 1252525777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's indentation
< 1252525779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was a typo
< 1252525783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the problem is to write a Python program that tests a number for primality, using an "is-divisible-by" operation
< 1252525786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(def I mean)
< 1252525793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I actually looked it up and indention is also correct
< 1252525797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AnMaster's looking for a non-obvious solution
< 1252525804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Contrary to popular belief I'm not retarded
< 1252525805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed
< 1252525817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, selection broke
< 1252525819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot
< 1252525819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it just happens to mean something else
< 1252525820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252525832 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, they mean the same thing.
< 1252525833 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252525839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? Interesting
< 1252525848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of
< 1252525857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indention is typographical
< 1252525859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indentation is code
< 1252525863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indention is never used anyway
< 1252525878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure is, an indentation in a wall?
< 1252525880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err..
< 1252525887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only ever seen indention in that context :P
< 1252525896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hur hur.
< 1252525919 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that context, "indention" is evidently archaic
< 1252525931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And "indentation" isn't)
< 1252525932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the wall context?
< 1252525945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252525948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1252525959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe I only read archaic books then
< 1252526013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:48:18 AnMaster: 6th-degree version of AKS? :->
< 1252526015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:48:48 Wolfram got six degrees just for writing that awful book and released a special edition for it?
< 1252526016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a joke, btw.
< 1252526056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wasn't responding to that line as far as I know?
< 1252526112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also what has wolfram got to do with AKS?
< 1252526305 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252526323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was replying to ais523 in the past.
< 1252526340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, whoosh.
< 1252526361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFS
< 1252526437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iirc that is Andrew File System in the linux kernel
< 1252526445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea who Andrew was
< 1252526464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is Acronym Failure Syndrome
< 1252526501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009073109]"
< 1252526508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Andrew
< 1252526545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a highly revolutionary file system
< 1252526749 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252528012 0 :labo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252529684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1252531060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, apparently John Resig (of jQuery fame) founded #haskell.
< 1252531686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was there ever a CRT laptop, I wonder?
< 1252531780 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"
< 1252531795 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1252532008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Was there ever a CRT laptop, I wonder? <-- yes I think so. At least it sounds familiar
< 1252532040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean like a single-line text display.
< 1252532072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean more like 5nnx3nnn or so
< 1252532078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252532079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3nn
< 1252532083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviousl y
< 1252532091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously*
< 1252532100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 nanometers
< 1252532136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would be "nm" not "nnn"
< 1252532146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't even look similar
< 1252532157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on font
< 1252532169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, assuming a decent font of course
< 1252532172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is nnn?
< 1252532176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even nn.
< 1252532184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any two numbers
< 1252532188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1252532193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1252532194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any two one digit positive integers
< 1252532197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact
< 1252532211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5xx x 3xx would have got that intent across.
< 1252532221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the x there in the middle confused things
< 1252532225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO
< 1252532236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm tragically using Arial due to being too lazy to find a properly hinted Windows Helvetica.
< 1252532257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tragic indeed
< 1252532263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252532692 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252533208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://core.trac.wordpress.org/changeset/11762
< 1252533228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WordPress remote vulnerability bug? Simply omitting the permissions check on all the option pages in the administration interface.
< 1252533236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keys are, like, right next to each other.
< 1252533271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So uh, anyone still using WordPress on a remote server? Relatedly, anyone currently on crack?
< 1252533433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I frigging hate Nokia. Given how much in love they are with Symbian I was pretty sure I could just disqualify all their phones; and then they go and do that N900 thing.
< 1252533459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Touchscreen keyboard, man.
< 1252533468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no.
< 1252533476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh.
< 1252533481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Really really tiny keyboard, man?
< 1252533497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also do all Finns have a weird thing for phones?
< 1252533501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's not a really tiny *touchscreen* keyboard.
< 1252533517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's pretty close to a cross of their "internet tablet" things and a phone.
< 1252533541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that mooz said it's good; how can I really disagree? (He's been playing with a prototype at his mobile-development job.)
< 1252533547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's not a really tiny touchscreen keyboard that lets you touch pixels by saying the x and then y position into a low-quality bluetooth headset which then compresses it with low-quality windows media audio and runs Vista's speech recognition algorithm on it after adding white noise to the background.
< 1252533602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also it looks thick.
< 1252533639 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252533643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Anyway, there aren't many apps for maemo atm are there?
< 1252533646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Maemo
< 1252533665 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, it's probably cheesy, but here's my latest Befunge abomination / creation: http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?p=101447#101447
< 1252533682 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not very impressive, I admit, but it took a while, so meh)
< 1252533686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure; it's just that it feels far more open-wide than, say, Android.
< 1252533689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC client broke that link at "flatass".
< 1252533699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I was trying to figure out what a Flat Ass Embler was for a second.
< 1252533715 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FASM, basically a competitor to NASM
< 1252533723 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although written in itself instead of C
< 1252533724 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-)
< 1252533747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I hear the Pre's implementation of multitasking is quite good, at least. I dunno, the N900 just doesn't feel very interesting to me.
< 1252533751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I know what FASM is.
< 1252533756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real men use yasm!
< 1252533764 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YASM is nice too
< 1252533765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is pretty thick and otherwise big too, yes; 111 x 60 x 18 mm. On the other hand, I've been carrying the 130 x 70 x 20 mm N-gage around for years now, and it doesn't feel that big any more.
< 1252533784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though really real men use an assembler written in Scheme.
< 1252533792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Isn't the N-Gage super-heavy?
< 1252533793 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Bash ;-)
< 1252533795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, crap? :P
< 1252533798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: No.
< 1252533803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bash does not have awesome macros. :|
< 1252533820 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant omimplay / shasm is an assembler written in Bash ;-)
< 1252533834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, it's completely horrible. Especially since there's a whole heap of "whoops, we made your phone reboot" bugs in the firmware, which they never bothered to fix.
< 1252533838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but a Scheme assembler would expose the operations as Scheme macros.
< 1252533842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Anyway, it came with a toy helicopter.
< 1252533844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus allowing Fun Fun Magic Trickery.
< 1252533850 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully your N-Gage is one of the later models without the battery replacement annoyance and sidetalking
< 1252533854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh. That's all right, then.
< 1252533860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alright, maybe.
< 1252533869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I would have said "N-Gage QD" if it were. No, it is not.
< 1252533899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you want something FREE AS IN RICHARD STALLMAN, try an OpenMoko phone! You can even run Android on them. Downside: they suck. Also no 3G. I don't think they have EDGE either.
< 1252533899 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION couldn't remember the QD part, was thinking SD or something ...
< 1252533926 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sings "Jive Talkin'" with "Side" replacing the "Jive" ;-)
< 1252533946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's a bit too open. I'm just having trouble resisting a phone that's basically running Debian.
< 1252533957 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the N-Gage had some good games, right??
< 1252533957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OpenMoko is basically Debian, too :P
< 1252533963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Not really, no :P
< 1252533967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but there's the hardware problem.
< 1252533980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I wouldn't know, it came with a "Tony Hawk's" skater game, which I sold.
< 1252533996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tony Hawk skateboarding games are uncannily addictive.
< 1252534018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt the N-gage version would've been very good.
< 1252534032 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it was okay
< 1252534042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, my iBook also came with a Tony Hawk game, which didn't work.
< 1252534046 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N-Gage wasn't quite that bad, albeit imperfect, from what I read
< 1252534048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was pretty strange.
< 1252534049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, forget the N900
< 1252534053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It uses a resistive touchscreen
< 1252534090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either you really *really* love styluses, really *really* love having your touches dropped, or don't want a resistive touchscreen.
< 1252534137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not sure I'm so touchy-feely person, and in fact I do have a strange fascination for styluses (styli?). Still, it's a bit of a shame; they did put a capacitive screen into that N97 Symbian phone, I think.
< 1252534163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after using an iphone i could never use a resistive touchscreen
< 1252534176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: btw, I'm pretty sure Maemo is designed for touchiness
< 1252534236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm still going to have to find one to improperly touch all around, to see what it's like.
< 1252534243 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get the huge appeal of touch screens, I mean, it's nice but not that crucial, seems more gimmicky than anything
< 1252534270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way
< 1252534287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch screens are good for some things, bad for others
< 1252534288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UI experience, so to speak, is way different with a touchscreen
< 1252534300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't want to program for a long length of time on one
< 1252534306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use a phone that doesn't have a touchscreen
< 1252534309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :web browsing, OTOH, might work quite well
< 1252534310 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252534318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hello 2006
< 1252534325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 99% of the phones in the universe never had touch screen capability
< 1252534328 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did see someone today doing the iPhone multi-touch map zoom thing, which has always made me smile.
< 1252534331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't have a phone at all
< 1252534340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you delight in pointing out all the time.
< 1252534354 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello 2006? heh
< 1252534362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different people here live in different years
< 1252534366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iphone came out in 2007 w/ touchscreen web browsing
< 1252534367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird lives about 10 years ahead of everyone else
< 1252534367 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, itz from teh 2006 !#!
< 1252534370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, hello 2006
< 1252534380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, i live in 2009
< 1252534393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the perspective of someone who lives in <<2009, that's probably true
< 1252534401 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be obsolete in four months :->
< 1252534423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comment was excitingly context free.
< 1252534429 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009
< 1252534568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assume you only use Befunge109 then? :-P
< 1252534576 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes good ol' classic 93
< 1252534580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge109 isn't really finished yet
< 1252534586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you'd better get a move on, before it becomes Befunge110
< 1252534613 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then someone may misinterpret it as binary
< 1252534629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had a big red button that I could press to make the air simultaneously slap every single person currently using a strawman argument in the face
< 1252534636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would put a heavy book on top of it.
< 1252534651 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :books? how 1890s :-P
< 1252534665 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just place your computer on it and be happy
< 1252534667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: are you feeling pain? 'cuz I'm pressing it
< 1252534669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a Kindle 2, omg, plz, kthxbai
< 1252534671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you can't weight things down with computer programs
< 1252534677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Press, press, press.
< 1252534685 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can ... Fortran punch cards :-)
< 1252534689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and aren't Kindles capable of deleting the stuff you're reading remotely/
< 1252534694 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252534695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one fucking heavy punch card.
< 1252534696 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was joking
< 1252534702 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plural
< 1252534702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, the Kindle is ridiculously DRMed
< 1252534704 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cards"
< 1252534706 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they did delete (and refund) over 1984, heh
< 1252534712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is great, however
< 1252534715 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_1984_, of all books ...
< 1252534737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I tend to avoid hardware if the software in it can't easily be replaced and isn't near-perfect
< 1252534758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure you can reflash the Kindle.
< 1252534759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the risk of being obsoleted pretty quckly
< 1252534765 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :near-perfect? uh, nothing is perfect (Win7 has SMB 2.0 flaw, BSOD lives!!)
< 1252534771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, it gets software updates.
< 1252534781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I'd have been pretty surprised if Win7 had been perfect
< 1252534792 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think somebody got a minimal Ubuntu to run on the Kindle
< 1252534794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hmm... is it hardware-locked to only allow signed updates?
< 1252534795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except anyone can crash a win 7 machine with an open port
< 1252534801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to a bug in the TCP/IP stack
< 1252534805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no idea.
< 1252534806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok, now that's impressive
< 1252534809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any open port?
< 1252534812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy a Sony ebook reader or something, they can't do that shit
< 1252534813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not sure
< 1252534817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does that apply to the server version too?
< 1252534822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno.
< 1252534833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it works on port 80, then Microsoft will be in a load of trouble
< 1252534842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I Read It On The Internet, So It Must Be True
< 1252534846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRIOTISIMBT.
< 1252534852 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too busy "training" Best Buy employees :-)
< 1252534855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I riot sim BT.
< 1252534865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such fun raiding the British Telecom offices in virtual reality?
< 1252534872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did you see that Reddit story about Apple pulling a C64 emulator app because you could write BASIC programs into it?
< 1252534879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... *iSim
< 1252534880 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saw it
< 1252534888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes.
< 1252534890 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iRiot, iSim, BT
< 1252534894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shit policy, the app store is managed shit
< 1252534898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: however
< 1252534900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in the ToS
< 1252534904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the devs were rejected for it before
< 1252534907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just "hid" it very faintly
< 1252534907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252534913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they shouldn't be surprised
< 1252534919 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still lame, though
< 1252534969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the policy is lame, removing it for violating the policy isn't
< 1252534979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my point of view, a device that deliberately tries not to be TC (from a user-input point of view) is rather limited
< 1252534993 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC?
< 1252534996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing complete
< 1252534997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing-complete
< 1252535000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're on crack.
< 1252535007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you not use ATMs?
< 1252535008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, what's to stop people just writing long javascript: URLs into Safari
< 1252535010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252535014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing
< 1252535015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I do, but I consider them rather limited
< 1252535019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather limited != unusable
< 1252535028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it reduces the amount of money I'm willing to spend on something
< 1252535028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet other apps which offer unrestricted net access,
< 1252535035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are rated 17
< 1252535039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bullshit
< 1252535039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17?
< 1252535066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :age limit, rating thing
< 1252535096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the Kindle is incidentally TC
< 1252535100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone asked the Enigma devs if they were planning to put it on the iPhone
< 1252535102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it has a web browser which does javascript
< 1252535107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it as an ssh client, for instance
< 1252535114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they launched into a rant against Apple and the app store policies
< 1252535124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how they thought it was illegal to put anything open-source in the app store
< 1252535130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very debatable.
< 1252535135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, under a GPL-style copyleft
< 1252535135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the FSF think so, but it's probably not.
< 1252535138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not BSD stuff
< 1252535149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, with an uber-strict literal reading, yes, it's illegal
< 1252535153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument is, that you can't license apple to make binary copies that don't also send source
< 1252535166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you can embed the source code inside the app :)
< 1252535171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually, no
< 1252535174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's terms ban that
< 1252535177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1252535181 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would Apple ban a Befunge interpreter?
< 1252535183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes
< 1252535186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: probably.
< 1252535189 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you aren't allowed to upload anything which could be used in a TC way to the App store?
< 1252535194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: well, no
< 1252535199 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know that
< 1252535201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? hard to imagine Befunge (-93, at least) of causing any problems
< 1252535210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but programming, yes
< 1252535215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: nor C64 BASIC
< 1252535220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone on reddit claimed that their lambda-calculus-based game was banned, although I'm not sure whether to believe them
< 1252535235 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why the heck is Apple so popular then?
< 1252535242 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't this come back to bite them eventually?
< 1252535247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes, it will
< 1252535247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: well, you'd think so
< 1252535249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1252535252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iPhone's UI is really, really great
< 1252535260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simply the smoothest phone for doing shit with
< 1252535269 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except TC shit ;-)
< 1252535277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... most people value that above being able to type BASIC programs on a touchscreen keyboard.
< 1252535279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I agree, the UI is relatively impressive
< 1252535304 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call 911, we need iBefunge, stat! ;-)
< 1252535305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to find myself getting bored of UIs after a few minutes, though
< 1252535307 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it there's no way to install a program locally
< 1252535313 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, you have to go via App store?
< 1252535322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do it if you have a developer SDK thingy.
< 1252535329 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which costs tonnes?
< 1252535329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that costs $$$.
< 1252535332 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :._.
< 1252535333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the SDK is free
< 1252535336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Putting it on your phone isn't
< 1252535340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something like...
< 1252535341 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about jailbreaking it?
< 1252535343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the figure.
< 1252535345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double-digit bucks
< 1252535349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: technically illegal.
< 1252535354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bored, maybe
< 1252535360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough, a UI is meant to be functional, not exciting
< 1252535366 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alrighty
< 1252535368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you notice it, it's bad
< 1252535372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: agreed
< 1252535379 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick to my current phone anyway.. I can call with it, so I'm happy
< 1252535388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phone is a misnomer
< 1252535400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual telephone-mast calling is basically irrelevant nowadays
< 1252535405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, though, what would I do with an iPhone-like device?
< 1252535407 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite true
< 1252535411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "mobile thingy device" isn't a very good term
< 1252535417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm one of those crazy people who bought a first-generation iPhone back in 2007 when they cost £72,564 and 81p. Back then they didn't even have apps, you were just meant to use web apps in Safari.
< 1252535424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I jailbreaked it.
< 1252535429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back then you could jailbreak it just by opening a web page in Safari.
< 1252535445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did you leave it jailbroken through upgrades/
< 1252535447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd hang there for about 15 seconds, show a blue progress bar, reboot and bam! You're jailbroken and have an app installer.
< 1252535450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't
< 1252535454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so
< 1252535459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did you upgrade and rebreak it?
< 1252535463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the App Store came out I didn't bother to rebreak it
< 1252535464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just leave it as-is?
< 1252535468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of laziness
< 1252535482 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, laziness ... the bane of progress
< 1252535494 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really start programming for the DS some day
< 1252535496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jailbreaking my mobile doesn't really advance the world.
< 1252535522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's a very good alarm clock and portable web browser. Not so much an IRC/IM client, but I haven't really practiced with that touchscreen keyboard much.
< 1252535556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't buy it today, but only because of the app store hoohah.
< 1252535590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alarm clocks can be obtained more cheaply
< 1252535596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm horrified at the thought of portable web browsing
< 1252535596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit.
< 1252535604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might just be a luddite.
< 1252535609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being on call constantly is bad enough
< 1252535613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but being online constantly?
< 1252535619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, web browsing is self-initiated.
< 1252535622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have an internet connection at my own home
< 1252535637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're probably a luddite.
< 1252535645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can just imagine a future where employers insit that everyone has an iphone set to IRC at all the time, or something like that
< 1252535645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the internet is an extension of my mind.
< 1252535650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to call up Wikipedia at any time is invaluable.
< 1252535663 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can see that
< 1252535667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you also oppose strong AI?
< 1252535680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, Terminator could come true and we'd be plunged into a horrible war with the machines, am I right?
< 1252535688 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia is great ... esp. for John Siegenthaler :-))
< 1252535718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think strong AI is unlikely within my lifetime
< 1252535723 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch
< 1252535732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I've seen of humankind, it's too fundamentally incompetent to want to develop anything like that
< 1252535733 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting 08:10 tomorrow
< 1252535745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is not an answer to my question.
< 1252535750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm sorry, Dave, but I can't let you do that."
< 1252535765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I tend not to think too much about things of low probability
< 1252535774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice. I asked a question of you.
< 1252535778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I rarely have opinions at all unless I actually think about a topic deeply
< 1252535790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so my answer is, atm I have no opinion, and I don't really want to spend time formulating one
< 1252535854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a use-case I mentioned, looking up information as an extension of my own memory? I suppose that's bad because I'll become stupid and drooling and have to look up every word on Wikipedia to find out what it means, hurr.
< 1252535862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re: opposing portable internet)
< 1252535942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, not really
< 1252535954 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252535966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I find I can hardly think when onlilne
< 1252535968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*online
< 1252535974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can scheme with people when online, e.g. for mafia or nomic
< 1252535983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hardly ever do productive work when I have an internet connection
< 1252536011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have a self-control problem
< 1252536024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You may be a bear. You may have wings. There are *so* *many* things you may.)
< 1252536029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when I'm connected to the internet, it's for the purpose of using it
< 1252536107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm likely the only person here young enough to have "grown up" with the internet.
< 1252536117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1252536121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even articulate what "using" the internet is. It's not a directed action I make.
< 1252536139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if you use the Internet as an extention of your own memory, then by analogy, I can remotely control your mind
< 1252536151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if someone reverts you.
< 1252536161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on my timing
< 1252536186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your memory doesn't correlate with other ones I'm unlikely to believe it.
< 1252536197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that's the same ol' "lol but anyone can put 'ur a fag' on wikipedia" argument.
< 1252536223 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they often do
< 1252536234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I wasn't assuming you'd only be trusting Wikipedia
< 1252536248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. My list of people who are fags is at least 11.47% longer than the average person's.
< 1252536268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, you're saying that you're going to get every site on the internet about a given topic to add your lie into them
< 1252536279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have this lie correlate with everything else I know
< 1252536285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do that, I commend your initiative
< 1252536285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: depends on how rare the topic is
< 1252536295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I'm thinking about the situation where mine's the only site with some datum you might want to know
< 1252536324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might flunk a job interview because I got the wrong C-INTERCAL version number. Oh, the embarrassment.
< 1252536344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you're the only person who knows you could just lie to me IRL too.
< 1252536352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internet doesn't really change that dynamic at all.
< 1252536364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except I'm less likely to trust people on the internet at face value.)
< 1252536456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about when the Internet crashes?
< 1252536470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm worried that it'll cause the end of civilisation, nowadays, we're just too dependent on it
< 1252536471 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, befunge-mode.el is very slow (probably due to cursor movement over current instruction being executed)
< 1252536479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not convinced it's entirely impossible
< 1252536490 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to what? dependence on oil? that didn't kill us (yet)
< 1252536495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: electricity is evil
< 1252536500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever been in a power cut?
< 1252536507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must immediately stop using electricity, lest it ever go out
< 1252536509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes
< 1252536515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you agree?
< 1252536528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :candles ftw! ;-)
< 1252536542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's normally easier to restore, taking out the entire electricity network all over the world would be rather difficult
< 1252536559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with the internet; it could be better, sure, and so we can make it better.
< 1252536567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, sure, I fully expect that an internet coverage outage will be as severe as an electricity outage in the future.
< 1252536603 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if this "cloud" crap takes off
< 1252536647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252536657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloud coverage seems like a bad idea
< 1252536686 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, dunno how old you are (I forget, but I know everyone here is youngish), but the Internet predates us all ... DARPA/ARPANET, 1974 or such ...
< 1252536689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while it's a loathsome buzzword, I don't see any problem in storing *some things* on third-party servers, hopefully encrypted and with backups, to access them anywhere
< 1252536701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I know that. (I'm 14.)
< 1252536710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we already do some (webmail, pics)
< 1252536712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it only really took off in the mid 90s.
< 1252536714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And exactly.
< 1252536725 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oy, 14 is a bit young
< 1252536738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I could have my mind corrupted by the negative influences of this channel.
< 1252536752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third-party servers is fine
< 1252536761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's storing data everywhere that's the problem
< 1252536765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how I think the cloud worked
< 1252536774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no
< 1252536777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was enjoying his 486 Sx/25 w/ 4 MB of RAM and 170 MB HD running MS-DOS 6.00 and Win 3.1 and King's Quest 6 when he was 14
< 1252536780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cloud is just a buzzword for things like gmail, google docs, ...
< 1252536790 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and 2400 bps for BBSes (soon upgraded, heh)
< 1252536794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a healthy tip to remember is that buzzwords never mean anything new
< 1252536805 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to imagine 2400bps was ever acceptable for anything
< 1252536811 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although same for 486s :-P
< 1252536824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I started on Windows 3.1 when I was 3, despite 95 coming out when I was born.
< 1252536841 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now *that* probably corrupted (or scarred) you ;-)
< 1252536857 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mommy, why is Bill Gates such a horrible programmer?"
< 1252536879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Oh, I already knew that, because I have a distinct memory of removing everything in C:\WINDOWS.
< 1252536889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need this crap on my system! Oh, look, it crashed again.
< 1252536921 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear, it must've been low memory, if we'd had more RAM, we never would've accepted Win 3.x for anything, ever
< 1252536946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Windows 3.x isn't old! Stupid people dropping compatibOHWAIT:P
< 1252536967 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say compatibility should be killed, but Win 3.x was definitely weak
< 1252537012 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is more popular (esp. since Win3x used undocumented tricks, still doesn't really run on FreeDOS although not enough developers miss it, I guess)
< 1252537031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS was pretty bad
< 1252537038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :architecturally
< 1252537046 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1252537052 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could've been better, could've been worse
< 1252537058 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was very lean and mean
< 1252537060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs could shit on each other and it had no proper multitasking
< 1252537063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna go with "bad architecture"
< 1252537073 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shit on each other" only applies to real mode
< 1252537082 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DR-DOS had multitasking, Desqview also existed, etc. etc.
< 1252537084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm pretty sure 386BSD and the like could run on the things DOS could
< 1252537094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not like a better architecture was impossible due to hardware constraints
< 1252537095 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one advantage of Win 3.0: multitasking DOS)
< 1252537099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 3.0 went completely broken when I DBLSPACE'd my system disk.
< 1252537108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.0? Windows 386 could do that!
< 1252537121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does that... double space text?
< 1252537125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly there was a warning about it somewhere, I just had missed it.
< 1252537125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 386 was a win 3.1 feature
< 1252537133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a on-the-fly disk compression thing.
< 1252537135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: naw
< 1252537135 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, DOS originally ran on an 8088, 386BSD didn't exist (and needed 386+, duh)
< 1252537141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer in the video is clearly running windows 2
< 1252537141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoubleSpace/DriveSpace.
< 1252537148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had overlapping windows, but the old look
< 1252537153 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win 2.1/386 existed (supposedly, never tried it)
< 1252537174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Windows 3.0 at least does have a "386 Enhanced" mode.
< 1252537185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: still, you could clearly fit a unix-alike on there
< 1252537199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD isn't exactly the leanest unix imaginable, and the 386 wasn't like five billion times more powerful
< 1252537221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably couldn't do everything the demoscene did with one, though
< 1252537228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the overhead and protection
< 1252537291 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run ELKS on a 8088.
< 1252537370 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely
< 1252537379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amusing how the latest top of the line x86 supercomputing system of today still, when you turn it on, tells the keyboard to free up its port
< 1252537383 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, Linux originally ran on a 386 w/ 2 MB
< 1252537388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over PS/2
< 1252537389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The main problem with DOS is that it made no sense on a machine more powerful than, say, an 8080.
< 1252537395 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays you'd be lucky to run one with 32 MB
< 1252537414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read the linux 0.1 source?
< 1252537415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ... Fail.
< 1252537416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it barely does anything
< 1252537427 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it made plenty sense, but Intel chips (286 pmode anyone?) weren't exactly DOS friendly
< 1252537428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're full of shit, Rugxulo :P
< 1252537431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox
< 1252537436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is more a hardware-communications library than an OS
< 1252537436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox systems run in kilobytes of ram
< 1252537439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single-digit
< 1252537439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can rather easily get you Linux on a 386 w/ 2MB.
< 1252537443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux
< 1252537447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox and Linux, and voila.
< 1252537450 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux 2.6? no way
< 1252537453 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux 2.4? doubt it
< 1252537456 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.2? maybe
< 1252537461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may well include the RAMdisk.
< 1252537462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you can strip down the kernel
< 1252537465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during compile
< 1252537479 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a lot of minimal Linuxes, and none are as minimal as DOS
< 1252537505 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, just for completeness, somebody did fix up Linux 0.1 to work with modern GCC, and he backported Bash 3.2, VIM 7, I think :-)
< 1252537521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. DOS is not even an OS, it's a couple of additional interrupt handlers and a bootloader that can be returned to.
< 1252537526 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you even DO with only 2 MB of RAM with Linux??
< 1252537534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: run binaries
< 1252537534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nethack?
< 1252537536 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with lots of (slow) swap space
< 1252537548 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nethack, maybe, not sure how much RAM it needs though
< 1252537554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much.
< 1252537554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no
< 1252537558 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(won't easily fit on a floppy, I think)
< 1252537570 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well
< 1252537573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can run a linux 2.6 + busybox system with 1KB BTW, Ben Olmstead shown his face recently?
< 1252541936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:40:57 (guess not)
< 1252541937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last seen early 2009, commenting on the 99 bottles of beer site on a malbolge submission
< 1252541945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:53:43 what's the diff between Befunge97 and 98?
< 1252541951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge97 was weirder, iirc
< 1252541953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as that 96?
< 1252541956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're both lost.
< 1252541961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster found some dox on them
< 1252541970 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1252541984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha chatzilla prefixes things with "=-="
< 1252541991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the - is below the = slightly
< 1252541999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's peeved that you changed your name, ais523
< 1252542013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're using chatzilla?
< 1252542020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as the sort of program you'd avoid using for UI reasons
< 1252542031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's pretty good on windows, actually
< 1252542036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the configuration UI is rather bad
< 1252542044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't use it connected to a browser, obviously; that's just stupid
< 1252542046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I only used it on SunOS
< 1252542061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never try and use it on OS X after using OS X for any length of time
< 1252542074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guess what would happen
< 1252542075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very upsetting
< 1252542096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, what do OSX users do when a typical Windows or Linux user would do pgup, pgdown, home, or end/
< 1252542108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chord for them on OSX is basically impossible to reach, worse than just using the mouse
< 1252542126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page up, page down, command-left or ctrl-A, command-right or ctrl-E.
< 1252542139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, emacs bindings for home and end, that makes sense
< 1252542146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Mac I was using didn't have page up or page down keys
< 1252542147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-A for the start of the physical line, command-left for visual line (i.e., line wrapping)
< 1252542153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what was it?
< 1252542154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command-left is just impossible for me to press
< 1252542162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not sure, I'm not a master of Mac knowledge
< 1252542163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the left command key
< 1252542167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and press left with your right hand
< 1252542170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a borrowed one from someone else's
< 1252542173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was it a notebook or a desktop?
< 1252542177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notebook
< 1252542183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm unused to using two hands to chord
< 1252542195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was it white, silver or silver and black?
< 1252542198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chord with one where possible, so as to move the other hand in place for the next key
< 1252542200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it was white
< 1252542214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either a non-first-generation iBook or a MacBook, then
< 1252542222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, page up is Fn-up I think
< 1252542224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and page down fn-down
< 1252542227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the problem is, I had to look at the keyboard to do left command + arrow key
< 1252542229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, chording with one hand is unergonomic
< 1252542231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so you know
< 1252542235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: faster, though
< 1252542241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope
< 1252542244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the way I learnt to type
< 1252542250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvorak is optimized to only hit one key with one hand at a time
< 1252542253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say I want to press control-P
< 1252542266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then neither of my hands can reach, say, y or u without moving, if I use both hands for it
< 1252542284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: comedy option: they use their trackpad's scrolling ability
< 1252542295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's possibly not a bad idea
< 1252542313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has a nonfunctioning trackpad, with the result that I can't use anyone else's without moving the mouse all over the place by mistake
< 1252542318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm used to resting my hands on it
< 1252542322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's a common problem
< 1252542329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why the nipple mouse is generally superior
< 1252542338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but even worse for me because I have little motivation to fix it
< 1252542339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, er
< 1252542342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the trackpad in the middle or to the left?
< 1252542346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle
< 1252542349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, almost
< 1252542356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, you have really bad typing posture
< 1252542357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slightly left-of-centre, but only by a centimetre or so
< 1252542370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my hands don't stay constant as I type
< 1252542374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor mine
< 1252542380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, they never curve into the middle
< 1252542380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they move into position for the next few letters
< 1252542400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if I rest my left hand on home row, the base of my left thumb is on the middle of the trackpad
< 1252542405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't curving into the middle at all
< 1252542409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay
< 1252542415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must have very small hands
< 1252542432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just an awkwardly-placed trackpad, I think
< 1252542442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you expect my hands to end up?
< 1252542447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean,
< 1252542449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they seek so far
< 1252542459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine do the same thing and yet my arms barely move
< 1252542464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is on a full-sized desktop keyboard
< 1252542469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't seek far; my arms don't move, my wrists hardly do
< 1252542471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, ignoring the non-main blocks of keys)
< 1252542475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly the palm of the hand that moves
< 1252542488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's enough to knock the touchpad, which my thumb is leaning on at the time
< 1252542490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... moving that without your wrist sounds like you're begging for problems
< 1252542497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, your thumb
< 1252542501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252542504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this mental picture keeps getting more and more awkward
< 1252542524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to press the spacebar anywhere sane, the base of the thumb basically has to be on the touchpad
< 1252542529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the left hand, at least
< 1252542547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of keyboards, I learned that I can type QWERTY in my head, but cannot recall the QWERTY layout.
< 1252542568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I could do this by typing e.g. "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" and noting which positions I go to.
< 1252542571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: same, more or less
< 1252542579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the end, type a different lipogram to check that I have it all right.
< 1252542584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that I can recall most of the letters on Qwerty
< 1252542593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :punctuation marks, though, I'd have to mentally type
< 1252542608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also because I've got OK at hunt-and-peck to find keys when I can't physically see the keyboard
< 1252542616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwertyuiopasdf and then I stop. Well, hjkl is obvious too, and I know there's some assortment of z, x, c and v on the bottom row, but couldn't be sure about the positions.
< 1252542619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to press a key at random, see what comes up, deduce where my hand is as a result
< 1252542622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfghjkl;
< 1252542625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zxcvbnm
< 1252542630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, I'm cheating
< 1252542633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd have to type out g, z, x, c, v, b, n and m
< 1252542646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, you need to see the keyboard to type?
< 1252542650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252542655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:30] it's also because I've got OK at hunt-and-peck to find keys when I can't physically see the keyboard
< 1252542657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to see the keyboard to place my hands
< 1252542659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1252542665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or feel around for the dedents on f and j
< 1252542666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's slower
< 1252542672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I shift off by one, but I just pick up my hands and put them back.
< 1252542677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those dedents are stupid
< 1252542683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just annoying for a non-touch typist
< 1252542689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for Dvorak users, etc
< 1252542693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1252542696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*non-home row typist
< 1252542716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's good to dedent something to help blind people find the keyboard
< 1252542856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about blind dvorak typists?
< 1252542868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have dedents too, I imagine
< 1252542876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably doesn't matter which keys, as long as it's known and consistent
< 1252542881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1252542886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blind people aren't stupid
< 1252542888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ones nearer the middle would help in finding the dedents in the first place
< 1252542891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can feel the edges of the keyboard
< 1252542906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but that takes time
< 1252542917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose they wouldn't be using the mouse as much as you advocate, though
< 1252542919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if at all
< 1252542934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm shocked, shocked, that blind people might have to have a different UI
< 1252542937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch-clicking (i.e. without being able to see the mouse pointer) would be almost impossilbe
< 1252542939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby renounce all pointing devices
< 1252542948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sorry, I didn't mean it like that
< 1252542953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252542954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1252542956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just joking
< 1252542971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: out of interest, have you ever used a screen reader?
< 1252543002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, most of the talk about web accessibility is, while a good principle, not all that useful in practice: first, because screen readers use IE and mess with the result and are Smart (you don't seriously think they're confused by layout tables?), secondly, because blind people have gotten used to all the quirks they hear
< 1252543008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, actually
< 1252543010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be interesting to
< 1252543029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but all the good ones, e.g. JAWS, cost rather unreasonable amounts of mone
< 1252543031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1252543063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many blind programmers use emacspeak
< 1252543064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I agree with web accessibility, but not mainly for the reasons you express
< 1252543065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a bunch
< 1252543079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because it's easier to process the data, which means that it's more likely to be forward compatible
< 1252543082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: google is also smart - but really, web accessibility comes automatically from good structure
< 1252543087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252543099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. some websites assume a particular screen resolution
< 1252543104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we both know that's an incredibly bad idea
< 1252543118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason is, because it doesn't work at all on things that have screens of different shapes
< 1252543126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, loads of other reasons too
< 1252543128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes (with the caveat that I'm not going to bother making it look perfect on 800x600 screens)
< 1252543137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1252543156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: incidentally, what do you think about the "site provides structure, user provides stylesheet" paradigm?
< 1252543159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it has no chance of taking off now
< 1252543166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but say it was dominant, rather than what we have atm
< 1252543176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you say that it would be better or worse than what we have at present?
< 1252543195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users should have the option of tweaking style, but having it solely down to the user misses the fact that presentation is a fundamental part of information (see e.g. Tufte)
< 1252543224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so presentation is actually quite vital to information
< 1252543234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd say worse
< 1252543319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end it's all a crapshoot :P
< 1252543354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will always optimize for having things be exactly as they want now without consideration for the future as long as our general intellectual characteristics stay the same
< 1252543359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how the web turned out was really inevitable
< 1252543370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, agreed on that, I think
< 1252543376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although consideration for the future is how I want thinks now
< 1252543380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been bitten too much...
< 1252543381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things
< 1252543449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the day when we can tweak our cognitive structures without destroying our memories or the rest of our personality is the day that shit stops... so, not in our natural lifetimes, that's for sure
< 1252543454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, not for sure, probable
< 1252543473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming no singularity-type event)
< 1252543484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people won't want their own cognitive structures tweaked
< 1252543517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly would.
< 1252543532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed, there's a chicken-and-egg problem
< 1252543550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, by definition you wouldn't want your own desires changed?
< 1252543566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I desire to be more rational and less emotional in my decision making, but I'm not.
< 1252543582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about people who want to be smarter?
< 1252543586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly want to be smarter, but I'm not
< 1252543613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced that a rationality tweak would do that
< 1252543619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were two separate things
< 1252543622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read "The Caves of Steel" by Asimov?
< 1252543637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas no; summarise?
< 1252543649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a robot joins the police force in a nearish-future Earth
< 1252543655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a strong-AI robot, that is
< 1252543677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FWIW, Asimov thought the Three Laws were pretty good, so his competency regarding AI is questionable)
< 1252543683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes
< 1252543696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting to see what happened, at least; although I suspect in RL it might turn out rather differently
< 1252543713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think he saw the Laws as a safety valve that made robots suboptimal but was the only way they'd be accepted
< 1252543714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, go on
< 1252543717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than something to make them better
< 1252543722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's not the issue
< 1252543728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that robots can still do evil with the Three Laws
< 1252543733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not sufficient for Friendliness(TM)
< 1252543742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the robot jumped to all sorts of conclusions that the human didn't
< 1252543756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... any justification for that happening
< 1252543758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252543761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the human jumped to other conclusionss as a result of the robot's actions
< 1252543765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were, more or less
< 1252543780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, the culprit turned out to be their boss
< 1252543792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the robot wouldn't believe that, so instead spent his time looking for spy beams, etc
< 1252543815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any justification for the robot's behavior, I think that argument is monumentally weak...
< 1252543826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the form "robots would do this, QED"
< 1252543827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was justification, but I don't think it was massively strong
< 1252543832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made for a good story, at least
< 1252543861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the robot was too eager to assume that other people acted rationally, was the main assumption
< 1252543867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Like most people, I was initially confused by EMI’s decision to release remastered versions of all 13 albums by the Liverpool pop group Beatles, a 1960s band so obscure that their music is not even available on iTunes." --A.V. Club
< 1252543878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well that's a rather obvious flaw in the robot's programming, then!
< 1252543885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252543899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, the conclusion was that the programming wasn't terribly good for the purpose
< 1252543917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm skeptical that such an AI could even be of human intelligence
< 1252543922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, there was quite a lot of robots doing evil in the sequel
< 1252543934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it could not comprehend the concept of mind-of-a-different-type-than-mine
< 1252543945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think it didn't
< 1252543950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it accepted statements to the fact
< 1252543956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it made incorrect assumptions otherwise
< 1252543995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr... internet, you're back up, so don't go all unusably slow on me
< 1252544200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think my DNS is out
< 1252544298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work numerically?
< 1252544309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea, gimme some numerics.
< 1252544323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :74.125.45.100
< 1252544326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of Google's
< 1252544336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works perfectly
< 1252544357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :207.7.108.149 is Esolang
< 1252544367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's opendns.net
< 1252544381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66.116.109.44
< 1252544390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"64 bytes from mdnh-parking-adult-109.las.marchex.com (66.116.109.44): icmp_seq=1 ttl=236 time=185 ms"
< 1252544396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, okay, .com
< 1252544397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's the site you mean, though
< 1252544408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :208.67.219.99
< 1252544451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eugh, DNS just came back up
< 1252544459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, only partly
< 1252544494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems like the Windows remote bluescreen bug has been fixed in Windows 7 RTM (although it is in Windows 7 RC)
< 1252544502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea: send someone a packet, their computer bluescreens
< 1252544521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, we discussed that before
< 1252544523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember?
< 1252544527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1252544531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really expect me to remember?
< 1252544531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ladies 'n gents, it seems opendns didn't help
< 1252544537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: earlier today, dude
< 1252544539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in 9 channels at once
< 1252544548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least two of which are actually active (not counting this one)
< 1252544559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's why AnMaster never seems to have backlog!
< 1252544563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously linear
< 1252544568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with his >500 channels...
< 1252544592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps AnMaster would be best served by a client that joins every single channel on a server, but only shows ones you choose at a given moment...)
< 1252544607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he actually reads all of them at the same time...
< 1252544629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I think it's rather suspicious that a serious bug turns up in older versions but not the newest, around upgrade time
< 1252544648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? there's a reason it's a release candidate
< 1252544653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they said "don't use it on your main machine"
< 1252544658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I knoe
< 1252544659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know
< 1252544660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "don't use it unless you're a technical user"
< 1252544663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bug's in Vista too
< 1252544668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which certainly didn't have those disclaimers
< 1252544679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... let's get this straight
< 1252544684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, most people who upgraded to Vista will probably upgrade to 7
< 1252544684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft left a bluescreen in vista to...
< 1252544692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make them even more known as the crashy OS?
< 1252544703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to reveal it when windows 7 came out as an upgrade persuader
< 1252544706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense for microsoft to leave such a bug in windows an update ahead of time
< 1252544716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh come on
< 1252544719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some places, Microsoft are running adverts trying to persuade people XP is insecure
< 1252544726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, sorry, I just feel like conspiracy-theorizing
< 1252544730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what's come over me
< 1252544734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is as tenuous as "the govt did 9/11 because glob boog duba"
< 1252544764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, it can be trivially disproved, which is a stupid thing for a conspiracy theory
< 1252544768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, if microsoft release a patch to vista
< 1252544776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they obviously will ASAP
< 1252544780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I can conspiratorise around that if I need to
< 1252544784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't be very convincing
< 1252544792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll probably be as convincing as a typical conspiracy theory
< 1252544927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doop dop
< 1252544982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping, do I have a connection?
< 1252544988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1252544989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probaby
< 1252544991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*probably
< 1252545053 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252545283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, how come this is so slow?
< 1252545291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grumble
< 1252545293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you being packet-shaped?
< 1252545293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orange suc
< 1252545294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1252545297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no
< 1252545301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just down before
< 1252545306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's going at something like 1B/hr
< 1252545321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, 1B/2min
< 1252545326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at this google page
< 1252545442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could you set up a TCP/IP over IRC bridge? this socket still works :P
< 1252545451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1252545457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'aww
< 1252545488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imgur pages still load...
< 1252545516 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1B/2min? Aren't bulk transfers done using packets of about 1500 bytes?
< 1252545662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush, you.
< 1252545664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow.
< 1252545677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This google page is just the header and one ad, and its been loading for about 15 minutes.
< 1252545797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, WTF?
< 1252545800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Okay
< 1252545805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mainly Wikipedia and Google.
< 1252546272 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something in them is on Clearfeed?
< 1252546372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Oh, don't be silly.
< 1252546377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ISP just sucks shit.
< 1252546391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it was down just an hour or so prior.
< 1252546868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH
< 1252546876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it would *consistently* suck.
< 1252547378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, anyone come up with something better than Cygwin yet, or will I have to take the plunge?
< 1252547388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP exists, but it's worse
< 1252547457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I very much get the impression DJGPP is old and DOS oriented
< 1252547464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1252547477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's entirely usable as a command-line unixy system, despite that
< 1252547503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it emulate the POSIX API like Wine does for Windows?
< 1252547506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what cygwin does, and it sucks
< 1252547511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it produce native binaries
< 1252547520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., is it like a mini-kernel in userspace
< 1252547521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bits of it that emulate easily; but it's native binaries it produces
< 1252547526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it just implement POSIX with Windows directly
< 1252547533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just doesn't implement things like fork() that can't be done easily in DOS
< 1252547535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc; you can't compile straight bash with djgpp for obvious reasons
< 1252547539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it unacceptable
< 1252547551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's emacs for djgpp
< 1252547560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in here said something about an undocumented windows API call that could be used to do it
< 1252547568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant? Azstal?
< 1252547574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fork() natively)
< 1252547648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my measuring stick is basically "does drive:\foo as a path work without it mapping it itself"
< 1252547659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it does, it's not emulating a unix FS, which is good
< 1252547671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djgpp translates c:\autoexec.bat to /dev/c/autoexec.bat internally
< 1252547679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, and that's wrong
< 1252547686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there shouldn't be a special path system as opposed to windows
< 1252547688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because:
< 1252547705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's the distinction between "these tools, that normally run on unix systems, and use the POSIX API, can run on Windows, because we've implemented the POSIX API" (good)
< 1252547707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs
< 1252547722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unix lackeys! have no fear, we've hacked up a library which creates a faux unix environment on top of windows!"
< 1252547784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin is definitely the latter
< 1252547786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mingw the former
< 1252547790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mingw has no fork()
< 1252547812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mingw tries to compile POSIX source into definitely Windows binaries
< 1252547818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, mingw + implementation of fork() using that undocumented syscall + coreutils, bash, etc. = perfect
< 1252547821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO
< 1252547829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what undocumented syscall?
< 1252547841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:52] someone in here said something about an undocumented windows API call that could be used to do it
< 1252547843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:52] Deewiant? Azstal?
< 1252547845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:52] (fork() natively)
< 1252547851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try and find it in my history
< 1252547876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ZwCreateProcess[Ex]
< 1252547890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's how cygwin does fork, ...maybe
< 1252547896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought it would be called something like Bear114
< 1252547903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd try and cite that but my interwebs only likes about 3 sites
< 1252547904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of the undocumented syscalls are
< 1252547909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, not syscall per se
< 1252547912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bear?
< 1252547919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that intentionally, like, roaring wood-shitting thing
< 1252547927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: more like teddy bear
< 1252547931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it Boolean Excess Accumulator Register or something
< 1252547932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1252547948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the social engineering virus which went around several years ago, telling people to delete a particular critical system file because it was a virus?
< 1252547955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes.
< 1252547962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear thing
< 1252547963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1252547970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same bear, apparently
< 1252547979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, is it just me or is \WINDOWS really unorganized?
< 1252547992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the icons are fun, though :)
< 1252548000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which version of Windows are you thinking of?
< 1252548008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC they reorganised it somewhat for Vista
< 1252548008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm on xp atm
< 1252548016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot saner in terms of command-line use
< 1252548017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has wallpapers in the root, for instance
< 1252548045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll try Windows 7 sometime.
< 1252548057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it forces cleartype
< 1252548061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on some fonts
< 1252548062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: c:\windows\ was the standard place to save documents in windows 3.1
< 1252548068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe it or not
< 1252548070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, because it was like unix /?
< 1252548074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest is for dos stuff?
< 1252548076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, all the programs had it as their default path
< 1252548086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was simpler than that, the programs were all installed there
< 1252548087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, c:\windows\ is all your windows files, just like c:\programming\
< 1252548093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it defaulted to current directory being the same as the executable
< 1252548096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1252548103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programs used current dir as default save path
< 1252548106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest is history
< 1252548132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone else here ever used Windows Me as their main OS? I did for years
< 1252548144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really is as terrible as they say.
< 1252548146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used ME
< 1252548155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Me
< 1252548159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an acronym, but it's Me
< 1252548173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, really?
< 1252548175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1252548200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, my dad at least used to have a once-a-monster Pentium 4 really-tall workstation tower thingy, which he did audio editing on using some old version of Pro Tools (so quite a heavy workload), and it had Me and never crashed
< 1252548206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably just very flaky drivers
< 1252548213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :included by default
< 1252548255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Fault Tolerant Heap (FTH) is a subsystem of Windows 7 responsible for monitoring application crashes and autonomously applying mitigations to prevent future crashes on a per application basis. For the vast majority of users, FTH will function with no need for intervention or change on their part."
< 1252548260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that scares me
< 1252548276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it mean that it attempts to figure out what the application meant to do in the case of things like null pointer dereference?
< 1252548280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's microsoft planning for a false flag military operation, cooperating with the reptilian NWO
< 1252548285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably not.
< 1252548300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Fault Tolerant Heap is another example of the low level efficiency built into the system: FTH automatically corrects memory faults that cause applications to crash which has the pleasant side effect of preventing future crashes. How does FTH work, exactly? What types of memory problems does it address, specifically? How do developers monitor FTH events and can they override FTH's behavior? What does this all mean to
< 1252548302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the average user? "
< 1252548311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'm scared
< 1252548322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more annoyingly, the article doesn't actually answer that question
< 1252548323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, who uses Windows because of its internals?
< 1252548331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just says "You will continue to learn about recoverability in Windows over the coming months here on C9."
< 1252548340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252548373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's a video, which i haven't seen
< 1252548374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had a program on my computer that was supposed to prevent crashes somehow
< 1252548391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the people who brought you SoftRam!
< 1252548394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a long time ago, and I remember little about it
< 1252548407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two mp4 downloads, one marked "iPod", one marked "PSP"
< 1252548471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: resolution, etc
< 1252548483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1252548598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome sure does use quite a lot of memory
< 1252548710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why microsoft haven't tried to make cleartype not suck
< 1252548715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they all blind?
< 1252548752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they actually like the look, is my guess
< 1252548769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's basically impossible, ClearType is like the worst imaginable implementation of subpixel antialiasing
< 1252548870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1252548872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is unbearable
< 1252548879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers leeching neighbour's wifi
< 1252548885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for WEP networks...
< 1252548907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, only a WPA2 and I don't think I have the password to that one written down in any convenient place.
< 1252549007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely imagines taking a lotus coated surface and some silver-food-coloring treated water to school
< 1252549213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You may want to see a therapist.
< 1252549243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't actually do it
< 1252549322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant a therapist for thoughts, Sgeo. You know. They call them "therapists".
< 1252549344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with thoughts, unless they're suicidal
< 1252549372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if I was seriously thinking about doing something reckless or authorities would assume is dangerous
< 1252549384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you being purposefully stupid? I need to determine the best tone of facepalm to use.
< 1252549558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, cygwin.com isn't loading.
< 1252549569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh
< 1252549578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know the opendns nameserver IPs?
< 1252549585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not off by heart
< 1252549628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1252549633 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-018.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252549990 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.139.31.167 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252550173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In a dramatic reversal of long-term IPv6 stagnation, global IPv6 traffic globally grew more than 1,400% in the last 12 months. Even more remarkable, this growth is due primarily to one application and one ISP."
< 1252550182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an awful lot.
< 1252550210 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What application?
< 1252550233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uTorrent. The ISP is Hurricane Electric (not a consumer ISP).
< 1252550236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asert.arbornetworks.com/2009/09/who-put-the-ipv6-in-my-internet/
< 1252550376 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252550667 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252550739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRAR
< 1252550743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone fix my interwebs. :|
< 1252550779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, apparently OpenBSD releases don't even come signed or anything
< 1252550793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's secure ... if you trust theo absolutely.
< 1252551449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's google's ip? I don't THINK this is dns, but...
< 1252551561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :74.125.45.100
< 1252551678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1252551680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads really quickly
< 1252551734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cached?
< 1252551765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1252551773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried a search.
< 1252551788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it's probably just that IP
< 1252551795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., my DNS is resolving to another one that I can't reach
< 1252551807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it happens on every page, and they load; just slowly
< 1252552700 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252554500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252554755 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot"
< 1252555412 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252556215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seems the issue is with google.co.uk
< 1252556220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me
< 1252556224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... or not
< 1252556678 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252556743 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252556750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D<
< 1252556760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1252556765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I interpret that smiley?
< 1252556766 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird
< 1252556772 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very carefully? ;-)
< 1252556772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252556781 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O
< 1252556806 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252556837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to beam their properly working wifi to the uk?
< 1252556851 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't, nobody's invented one yet ;-))
< 1252556852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be great. thank
< 1252556853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1252556857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\ns/s/
< 1252556867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: what, working wifi?
< 1252556889 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION surely doesn't have it, Broadc... (dies before speaking the name of the unspeakable one)
< 1252556958 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252556965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was whoising to find the country
< 1252556969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I should have guessed from "Broadcom"
< 1252557143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleargh
< 1252557149 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm?
< 1252557164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying having an internet connection that only works on some IPs, you see
< 1252557166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, "bleargh"
< 1252557180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grumble... need to ditch Orange...
< 1252557286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bad ISP, incidentally.
< 1252557335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as the support consists in its entirety of people who can't speak english reading lines of such stunning insight as "have you tried resetting all the router settings?" (in more dumbed-down words, naturally) from a book
< 1252557363 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't all ISPs behave the same?
< 1252557368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big ones, yes
< 1252557383 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dare I ask, what country are you in again? UK?
< 1252557387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the connection you're paid to give us is down" "um we'll send an engineer in 74 days" (It goes on 24 hours later) (73 days pass) "well we checked it and it is okay."
< 1252557394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yeah
< 1252557412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switching to http://bogons.net/ is the plan...
< 1252557417 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heard today that wireless routers can cause headaches
< 1252557429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, problems, or literal headaches?
< 1252557433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the latter, that's FUD
< 1252557433 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literal
< 1252557440 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ya never know
< 1252557443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WiFi is absolutely harmless, and many more things operate on the same band and more powerful than WiFi
< 1252557449 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on figurative headaches, I can agree!!
< 1252557457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if WiFi is bad for you, radio has already killed us in a nuclear holocaust
< 1252557522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on who you ask
< 1252557551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ask crackpots, you can learn very interesting things about the world
< 1252557555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately they're all false
< 1252557584 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ironically enough all the geniuses are often considered crackpots
< 1252557609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Bogons seem good; they do IPv6, they have no transfer limit, they don't cap the raw ADSL stream, they're explicitly targeted at the tech-savvy, and it appears to consist of just two people (or at least, mainly); one of whom worked at the BBC in the early days of the internet and originally registered bbc.co.uk; a quick google search turned up a usenet posting by him linking to some...
< 1252557611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...information about ISPs that have Phorm (evil deep-packet-inspection based advertising thing) or something similar to that, anyway, in a thread critical of it.
< 1252557629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's still the UK, so we're talking the third-world 8mbit speed (only 6mbit at this exchange)
< 1252557640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: they laughed at newton. they also laughed at bozo the clown
< 1252557681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both studies and basic logic about the frequencies that have existed before WiFi show that it has no harmful effects
< 1252557696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when I thought the Republicans had run out of shameful things to do: Republican Representative yells at the President mid-sentence in mid-sentence, stating "YOU LIE!"
< 1252557710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news at 6: coffee is bad for you; news at 10: coffee is good for you
< 1252557713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You lie. With your mouth! Lies. Come out of it."
< 1252557732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yep; scientific studies, the mainstream news channels.
< 1252557734 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you mean tonight??
< 1252557734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference?
< 1252557747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yes.
< 1252557752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "at this President mid-sentence in mid-sentence"
< 1252557759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: XD
< 1252557761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The President is pioneering Xzibit sentence technology.
< 1252557773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear he hired some Russian immigrants to do it.
< 1252557783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at the President, not this
< 1252557828 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't watch the boring speech
< 1252557893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it boring (note: I didn't either, for rather obvious reasons)
< 1252557901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It mostly consisted of "What the Republicans say has less factual basis than claiming the Earth is flat."
< 1252557923 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :politics is crazy in America, and I'm not exactly savvy or interested, so ...
< 1252558008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American politics: Would you like right-wing insanity, or right-wing insanity with a little more fascism and crazy "moral "platforms?
< 1252558013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"moral" platforms
< 1252558024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because hey, after all, The Other Party(tm) might win.
< 1252558038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the US. I'm kinda forced to care.
< 1252558060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'd prefer an honest-to-god progressive.
< 1252558080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, you can stop caring now, I'll spoil the long-term for you: it keeps drifting to the right and nothing ever gets done
< 1252558095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for acts of war.
< 1252558103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said long-term.
< 1252558105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And threatening to unleash the very fires of hell on someone.
< 1252558119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that called christianity :P
< 1252558127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the rest of the world has that too
< 1252558161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to nukes.
< 1252558168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was referring to joking :|
< 1252558184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't. A large number of Republicans wanted us to nuke Iraq...
< 1252558186 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION already saw that coming from far away
< 1252558199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, nuking Iraq?
< 1252558201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the US too, but it's still mind-bogglingly annoying
< 1252558206 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, your other references
< 1252558219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plural? I'm not sure what you're referring to :P
< 1252558252 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter
< 1252558272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1252558289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thanks for making me immortal, my desperate urge to find out what you're referring to will keep me from resting in peace
< 1252558291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252558406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what made the Republicans think that #esoteric would be any good at nuking Iraq?
< 1252558435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: us as in "the US".
< 1252558444 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just confused Obama ain't exactly pulled everyone out of overseas wars
< 1252558447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 almost certainly knew that and decided to make a "joke" based on it
< 1252558459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you mean politicians aren't honest?
< 1252558460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1252558462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am
< 1252558463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocked
< 1252558493 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's some kind of twisted loyalty, pretending that somehow Afghanistan is so moral and acceptable and Iraq is some gaping "blood for oil" war
< 1252558507 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see a huge difference
< 1252558519 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(besides the obvious)
< 1252558619 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just weird, that's all, "blah blah blah, war bad, Iraq bad, blah blah blah, we want out, blah blah blah (sends 30,000 more to Afghanistan) blah blah blah" ... huh???
< 1252558639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean... politicians... aren't consistent?
< 1252558641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1252558642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am
< 1252558644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1252558645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocked
< 1252558648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that
< 1252558649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1252558650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am
< 1252558652 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"our troops are dying for oil, blah blah blah, war bad (people keep signing up, everybody "supports" our troops) blah blah blah"
< 1252558652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing
< 1252558653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enter
< 1252558655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after
< 1252558657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every
< 1252558658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word
< 1252558676 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's. another. meme. that's. quite. popular. that. isn't. so. annoying.
< 1252558678 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "
< 1252558683 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best. game. ever."
< 1252558695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but annoyingness is a virtue!
< 1252558698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyingosity.
< 1252558759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you use a trackball?
< 1252558791 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be surprised if yes
< 1252558806 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marble Madness, ftw! ;-)
< 1252558809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: any context to that? But no, I've never used one. I'd like to, but my gut feeling is that my thumb/fingers would be uncomfortable. Also, it has the same release-reposition problem for continued movement as a mouse.
< 1252558818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1252558827 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried one out for the first time today, and it's awesome :)
< 1252558833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it?
< 1252558836 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a big ball you drag your hand across
< 1252558844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind?
< 1252558853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ball in the middle, ball on your thumb, ball on your fingers (buttons to side)?
< 1252558858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ball on your thumb
< 1252558866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that's awkward?
< 1252558867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the release-reposition
< 1252558870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, my hand is small, sure, but...
< 1252558875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumb-ball trackballs are my favourite shape for them
< 1252558880 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the release-reposition problem isn't that big, since it's only one motion
< 1252558888 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's akward for all of 20 seconds
< 1252558891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to move quickly, you generally leave the ball free-spinning as you move back
< 1252558896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it harder to position exactly? I mean, these are just my impressions.
< 1252558897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and precise movement's pretty easy too
< 1252558902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1252558905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to position exactly, and to move quickly
< 1252558908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're different motions
< 1252558909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just buy a trackball, then.
< 1252558912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hard to do anything in between
< 1252558914 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were I getting a desktop computer, I'd definitely get one
< 1252558918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: superior or inferior to the nub?
< 1252558929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, even optical trackballs seem to get dirty really often
< 1252558938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: optical trackball?
< 1252558940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I don't think I was using it long enough to decide
< 1252558941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that is, it sounds silly.
< 1252558949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: where a laser detects movement rather than rollers
< 1252558952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that uses optics to sense the ball itself, rather than rollers
< 1252558961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not a laser usually
< 1252558963 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be!
< 1252558978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems pointless.
< 1252559020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do you know what model it was?
< 1252559032 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no clue, though I could find out easily
< 1252559053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I've just noticed that my motor movement in my thumb is worse by far than my fingers
< 1252559069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fingers are faster, more accurate and easier to move
< 1252559077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's why a thumb trackball seems really awkward
< 1252559100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, a trackball has the same context switch problem as a mouse
< 1252559147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1252559164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's hard to get too excited about, unless I was doing image editing
< 1252559250 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just out of curiosity, do you use vimperator?
< 1252559274 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw someone using it today also; that was interesting
< 1252559275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252559292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think vim/emacs are really better than current UIs
< 1252559318 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vimperator? is that a Firefox add-on?
< 1252559319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both suck a lot, and the more WIMPy UIs are more immediately discoverable than vimmy/emacsy ones, so I tend towards the former
< 1252559326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes.
< 1252559357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, see, that's the thing
< 1252559368 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's keyboard browsing
< 1252559372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, tbh, very attractive
< 1252559379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am well aware of what it is.
< 1252559382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stand by what I said.
< 1252559398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some combination you press and it highlights every link with a number; you type in the number and you visit it
< 1252559412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, you can either choose an erroneously spatial interface or an undiscoverable, inscrutable keyboard interface.
< 1252559428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former is more common and discoverable, so I use them. Both suck.
< 1252559464 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know you have tried Emacs recently, and the mouse support isn't exactly lacking
< 1252559473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not tried it recently. I know emacs.
< 1252559479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it because there wasn't really any other option.
< 1252559499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you think I want a mouse-oriented WIMP interface, you're very mistaken.
< 1252559533 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't understand what you prefer then
< 1252559588 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't hate both keyboard and mouse and still like computers
< 1252559596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not say keyboard vs mouse.
< 1252559603 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't perfect (by far) but are all we have
< 1252559646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's understandable, considering it basically doesn't exist at the moment. But WIMP-style UIs are erroneously spatial, and vim/emacs-style UIs are not discoverable by the same mechanism as which they are used; take a WIMP toolbar: you see the options, and can click them: the way you discover them is the way you operate them: by spatial elements. Plus, they often sacrifice clarity for the...
< 1252559648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...sake of saving one or two keystrokes.
< 1252559674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not yet found a perfect solution, but there are ideas in my head I'm toying with.
< 1252559730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a tradeoff you can't avoid
< 1252559737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree.
< 1252559746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIMP UIs aren't discoverable because they're spatial.
< 1252559756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're discoverable and operable spatially, sure.
< 1252559775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But just as you can have a UI operable by means other than spatial, you can have a UI discoverable by other means too.
< 1252559853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erroneously spatial explained roughly: In a spatial UI, there's a distance between two buttons, say; there are two choices and neither has more "difficulty" or inherent distance, but one of them is further away from your pointer: the act of mousing to one or the other is inherently unnecessary work, just as a 3D UI is bad because you have to continually move around things to find them.
< 1252559994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confused
< 1252560095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably helps to have these thoughts occupy your mind for at least a month if you want to unerstand that.
< 1252560113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*understand, rather; I am truly a terrible typer on this keyboard.
< 1252560119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, ChatZilla. Typer is a word.
< 1252560134 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it accepts "typist" though
< 1252560286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fyes, proxably. Bet typist us tou mlch af u rel wurd fouowr mii tou grayc yt wtx usagez.
< 1252560303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's ridiculously hard to read.
< 1252560550 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252561338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw, the numbered links are near-useless
< 1252561359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it takes as much time to look at it, recognize the number, and type it as it does to mouse to it and click it
< 1252561379 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love numbered links!
< 1252561382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it means you aren't going to a mouse!
< 1252561452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yet it saves you no time at all. also, with a nub mouse, there's no mouse context switch time
< 1252561455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mousing is faster
< 1252561470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clarification: the numbered links are actually a-z0-9)
< 1252561477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1252561488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(iirc), maybe
< 1252561571 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd rather use a clit mouse than move your hand over to a real one?
< 1252561572 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes
< 1252561621 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: leave
< 1252561624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252561649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: Infinite motion without repositioning, bitch. No wrist strain, bitch.
< 1252561653 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wry?
< 1252561670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.
< 1252561688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, zero context switch time is hugely important
< 1252561698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it means the damn thing actually gets used
< 1252561705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird completely missed the double entendre :(
< 1252561716 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess e's a tad young
< 1252561739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a pretty good double entendre
< 1252561742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a pastebin for that
< 1252561745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, qdb
< 1252561757 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap
< 1252561761 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even notice that
< 1252561776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what was the yikes for?
< 1252561785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm a bit tired, actually
< 1252561816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i generally don't look out for innuendo for whatever reason
< 1252561828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just young
< 1252561855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no.
< 1252561886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old are you?
< 1252561943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14, but seriously, I just don't look for innuendo most of the time
< 1252561954 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's an old man at heart, and that's all that counts ;-)
< 1252561954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, google loaded fast
< 1252561955 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. You're young. Trust me on this.
< 1252561957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my plight over?
< 1252561968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: did you know that if you state something over and over, it makes it true?
< 1252561983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're just young for using a playground tactic :)
< 1252562019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, but the catch is that you're too young to realize it's true
< 1252562043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: this _is_ an elaborate joke, right? otherwise you're just being incredibly stupid
< 1252562064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought it was already established that everyone in this channel is quite young
< 1252562078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes, gramps
< 1252562080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh snap
< 1252562101 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes ehird play with his old Apple IIc for punishment ...
< 1252562114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now come on, that's a terrible innuendo
< 1252562121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even make any sense
< 1252562223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be back in 2 or 3 years
< 1252562247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: umm... bye?
< 1252562254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rather anticlimatic exit
< 1252562270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making a joke. Lost on you, apparently.
< 1252562343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correlating that with anything said recently either that's a really crappy joke or isn't even intended to be a joke at all.
< 1252562353 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former
< 1252562456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume it'll just remain an elusive mystery for all time then
< 1252562487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a few years
< 1252562629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the joke "ha ha, in 2-3 years you will understand the amazing amazingosity of innuendo?" because that's not, you know, a joke, unless you mean the xkcd-style jokes which are perfect jokes except for their lack of humour
< 1252562688 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252562705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is largely that you don't get the joke
< 1252562733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., there is no joke, i.e., it isn't the former, it's the latter
< 1252562767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a joke. However, it's on you, and, what's more, you don't get it.
< 1252562776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it all the funnier
< 1252562802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure hope my mild bemusement is worth whatever effort it took to cook it up.
< 1252562926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252563137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the only joke I could think of is "I'll be back in 2 or 3 years [when you finally understand this joke]"
< 1252563146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which popped to mind almost immediately after reading it, but I dismissed it as too crap.
< 1252563173 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252563191 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I won't answer that, because no matter what I say, you'll take the answer the wrong way
< 1252563243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not answering is another form of answer that can be wrongly taken in exactly the same way, so that makes no sense :)
< 1252563280 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1252563317 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonetheless, if I answer honestly, you'll probably get angry at me because you don't understand it
< 1252563362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you live in some kind of warped universe where I'm filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day? because your behavior is completely incomprehensible to me.
< 1252563452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, I presume, is Yet Another Joke oh the veritable rivers of laughter
< 1252563474 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252563516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, some things can only be learned, not taught
< 1252563532 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, I'm not going to elaborate on what those things are)
< 1252563543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, master of zen and vague bullshit
< 1252563549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed!
< 1252563564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252563577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was fun, whereby fun I mean tiring
< 1252563600 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252563648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252563684 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252563735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1252564222 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252564448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do you live in some kind of warped universe where I'm filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day? because your behavior is completely incomprehensible to me.
< 1252564469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, could you invite ehird's mirror twin here? should be interesting.
< 1252564486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure such an entity could be described as ehird
< 1252564522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghird naturally, g for good rather than evil
< 1252564541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your definition of good i guess
< 1252564613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course he shouldn't stay too long. he would probably be destined for a horrible fate: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth
< 1252564676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i clicked it but my half-working internet connection doesn't work on that particular IP
< 1252564679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever internet connection!
< 1252564694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would work if i waited a few years...
< 1252564696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE COPPRO
< 1252564726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, foiled again
< 1252564743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: out of curiosity, do you get his joke?
< 1252564777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I meant to say: we do have a qdb, ais523
< 1252564783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good point
< 1252564784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone add it?
< 1252564806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i didn't find the actual joke yet
< 1252564814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "I'll be back in 2 to 3 years"
< 1252564820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps with different grammar, I don't recall
< 1252564846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees nothing wrong with that sentence's grammar
< 1252564846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you'd rather use a clit mouse than move your hand over to a real one?
< 1252564849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: be warned that if you don't get it, we'll hear from coppro that you're just too young. too young.
< 1252564853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no
< 1252564857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one before
< 1252564862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's another?
< 1252564863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro made that one after
< 1252564873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] * coppro will be back in 2 or 3 years
< 1252564875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] coppro: umm... bye?
< 1252564876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] that's a rather anticlimatic exit
< 1252564878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] I was making a joke. Lost on you, apparently.
< 1252564911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(continue similar "too young!" and "it's funny because you're not sure what I mean" for about half an hour)
< 1252564918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well i should be too young, since i aspire to be filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day. unfortunately the universe fails to oblige.
< 1252564936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not forgetting to brush my teeth, mind you
< 1252564990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only toothpaste is overpowering bubblegum flavor and has sugar in it.
< 1252565007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the water is Ribena
< 1252565076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what i aspire to. you are confusing it with this world's ersatzes.
< 1252565117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am merely describing the world in which ehird-the-innocent-14-year-old-oblivious-to-genitalia-and-all-that-entails exists
< 1252565122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't shoot the messenger
< 1252565126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1252565279 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you sure your Internet troubles are the ISP and not the wireless?
< 1252565300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it was immediately preceded by my router's connection page showing invalid authentication/ppp failed/etc, yes.
< 1252565306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm not on WiFi.
< 1252565321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the ethernet cable is distorting my packets!
< 1252565323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, but you mentioned wanting a good wifi I thought
< 1252565324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly I need a gold-plated one.
< 1252565339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because running an ethernet cable across continents turns out to be even less practical.
< 1252565347 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what OS?
< 1252565356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the router console is a web page.
< 1252565387 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, do you have access to a different OS for test purposes?
< 1252565393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure.
< 1252565400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am 99% sure.
< 1252565414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interwebs went down, they came back not at all, then they came back mostly but with some IPs being skittish
< 1252565416 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% sure of what? router's fault? ISP?
< 1252565424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then google started working smoothly, then stopped again
< 1252565426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ISP
< 1252565433 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what brand router?
< 1252565436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that I've had many bad experiences with this ISP
< 1252565442 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1252565451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's an Orange Livebox. technically it's just "rented"
< 1252565465 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be just some old firmware bug, who knows
< 1252565471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252565491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has all the characteristics of dodgy routing by my ISP
< 1252565499 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1252565841 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252566344 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh ... anyone ever taken a look at Befreak?
< 1252566351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so.
< 1252566353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Once we move to 37signals Accounts we will be hashing passwords."
< 1252566361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ from the company that brought you Ruby on Rails...
< 1252566550 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252566607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"..." indeed.
< 1252566795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1252566804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .tar.gz doesn't have BFC like they claim
< 1252566812 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no docs included either (apparently)
< 1252566825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nsl.com has a befreak page.
< 1252566831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though obviously k-oriented
< 1252566837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an implementation
< 1252566864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and k3 for windows to run it is available in nsl.com/misc or somewhere.
< 1252567012 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252567038 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K looks more confusing than Befreak!!
< 1252567080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the Forth-ish stack ops ("over", "under") seem appealing
< 1252567093 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should buckle down and just learn enough Forth to write my own Befunge93 interpreter ;-)
< 1252567232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is quite impenetrable at first but is learnable in about an hour.
< 1252567257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, fully grasping the basic concept and knowledge about most of the operators)
< 1252567278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's array based, like APL
< 1252567279 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backflip, what kind of stupid name is that? ;-)
< 1252567301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I dunno ...
< 1252567373 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't understand the reason for inventing Backflip ...
< 1252567395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: it was an exercise in how computable those simple rules could be
< 1252567406 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output only as extension??
< 1252567412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a post on esoteric.sange.fi where someone was suggesting adding them to Befunge to provide function-call capability
< 1252567419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tarpits aren't meant to be useful
< 1252567420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I/O has nothing really to do with how a language operates computationally
< 1252567441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about theoretical properties, mathematical beauty and purity, etc
< 1252567460 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, just less fun when you can't do as much with it :-/
< 1252567558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: btw, how the living fuck are you meant to pronounce your name?
< 1252567607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Unassignable needs more love
< 1252567614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really fun and challenging to program in
< 1252567637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried
< 1252567639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gave up
< 1252567641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252567666 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you mean my nickname as I haven't told you my real (pronounceable) name :-)
< 1252567680 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roo-JOO-loh
< 1252567709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I'm pretty sure I don't know of any languages with silent Xs.
< 1252567715 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in (drum roll please) Esperanto, an artificial spoken language older than all of us combined (1887)
< 1252567728 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to be "g with circumflex"
< 1252567732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh
< 1252567742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban in your face :)
< 1252567773 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :─¥
< 1252567782 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, that doesn't show up correctly for me
< 1252567796 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruĝulo
< 1252567799 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there ;-)
< 1252567805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esperanto!
< 1252567808 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good ol' "esperanto-postfix" in Emacs, heh)
< 1252567810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have recognised the notation
< 1252567817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eo.wikipedia.org accepts it too
< 1252567828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esperanto is boring :|
< 1252567833 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite common to use "gx" (although "gh" is more official)
< 1252567835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my keyboard can type ĝ
< 1252567854 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine probably could too via Windows input crapola, but I'm too lazy to learn how
< 1252567869 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you really know / like lojban?
< 1252567880 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, speaking of esoteric languages ...)
< 1252567881 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252567882 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1252567883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Lojban, unfortunately I don't know it, although I started learning it before
< 1252567888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hope to be fluent in it one day
< 1252567894 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is Esperanto boring?
< 1252567907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly like every other natural language, except human-constructed
< 1252567939 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less wonky in the grammar bits (more rigid spelling and pronunciation), that should be a good thing
< 1252568002 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, if you wanna learn Lojban, you gotta get some reading material, which is probably a lot more scarce than E-o stuff
< 1252568008 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck :-/
< 1252568019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there's a wonderful online book about it
< 1252568053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making sentences about how I say that I say that my name is [Elliott Hird, except not perfectly because it isn't totally pronounceable in Lojban] in no time :P
< 1252568080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably your name would be pronounced exactly as you say it normally
< 1252568089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Lojban doesn't have the sounds for that
< 1252568090 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign languages usually don't change that except for written purposes
< 1252568101 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lojban isn't the one talking, you are ;-)
< 1252568104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban has a 1:1 written-said correspondence
< 1252568121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you must transliterate your name to use it in a lojban sentence
< 1252568125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full stop, no exceptions
< 1252568136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there might be a funky quoting thing
< 1252568142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd just be awkward
< 1252568185 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying, I don't think Bill Clinton would call himself "Vilhelmo Klintono" just for linguistic sake
< 1252568199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? it's how lojban works
< 1252568211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simply the language
< 1252568229 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252568777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, 99-bottles-of-beer.net Befunge example is weird, seems to never end, even wraps (?) to negative numbers ... that can't be right, can it??
< 1252569599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252569600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252569807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252569851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does work with cfunge. Well, the downloadable version, anyway.
< 1252569954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inline version seems to have "\0\0" replaced with "{CODE}{CODE}", which is not very good; probably some sort of regexp backreference mishap.
< 1252569980 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's why
< 1252570001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tips on the site said change "{CODE}{CODE}" to "{}{}" which still didn't exactly work like I expected
< 1252570053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite a silly tip.
< 1252570083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should make a better tip.
< 1252570167 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goat head
< 1252570533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; when I wrote {CODE} in the comment field, it got substituted with the (broken) program, while the \0s in the comment turned into {FORM_COMMENT}. Impressive.
< 1252570550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately the captcha also didn't work without cookies, so that version didn't get sent.
< 1252570743 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wacky
< 1252570750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, no big loss I guess
< 1252570762 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.S. Found a very small (< 1k) Perl version of a Befunge interpreter
< 1252570777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know mtve also wrote a small one too, but this one is more compact :-)
< 1252570778 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol4_3/tpj0403-0017.html
< 1252570982 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly works although "?" may not (dunno)
< 1252570997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't tell if the comments are comments or code!! ;-)
< 1252571133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the Javascript Befunge-93 at http://www.quirkster.com/js/befunge.html -- which I've used when in some unfriendly place without a Befunge interpreter handy -- makes # an infinite loop when executed from right to left.
< 1252571166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does jump properly left-to-right; I guess it just adds a (1, 0) vector after the normal delta, instead of moving twice.
< 1252571248 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of interpreters obviously aren't very well tested
< 1252571273 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of that is the fact that most examples are hard to come by (besides the "official" distribution)
< 1252571282 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lot of up-to-date Befunge pages
< 1252571301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, in fact it just initializes the '#' command handler as "dir", which is the current-movement-function variable, and obviously gets the initial value stuck in the table.
< 1252571336 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been told that Bequnge also incorrectly handles #
< 1252571393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That page says it's been tested against the Befunge-93 portion of Mycology; I guess that only does jumps in one direction.
< 1252571432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe you should add a # in some other direction, too; you're supposed to be thorough, aren't you?
< 1252571505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there enough space?
< 1252571520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252571604 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, I can't find any links to "Betty" (although Wikipedia mentions it)
< 1252571676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooz had a rather nice jsbef (peculiarities: it reads a spec about the actual execution using a nifty simplified markup from a text field on the page, so you can do befunge variants trivially), but there's just the archive.org and local copies now.
< 1252571691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should ask him about whether I could re-publish it somewhere.
< 1252571775 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js as in Javascript?
< 1252571795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252571812 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saw a Silverlight one earlier today, didn't bother, even the author admitted it was buggy, and even he only tested on two samples
< 1252571871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20060925160700/kotisivu.mtv3.fi/quux/jsbef/index.html if you want to see the archived copy; I'm not sure it works after archive.org mangling, but the befunge command descriptions in the text field are nicely concise, especially given that those are what's executed.
< 1252571881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I should be at lunch now.
< 1252572161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252572231 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mycology's mycorand.bf is the only useful part for Befunge93?
< 1252572823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology.b98 and mycouser.b98 both should work in a Befunge-93 interpreter, as long as it ignores the out-of-the-box (i.e. outside 80x25) text.
< 1252572846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can cut the corresponding squares off them if not.
< 1252572902 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, thanks
< 1252572945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's what I remember hearing; it's not *my* test suite.
< 1252573624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, I'm supposed to assume that if something works one way it works the other way as well :-P
< 1252573668 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost conceivable that + fails if adding 42 and 2 but always otherwise returns the correct result... I can't test /everything/
< 1252573675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have such a disclaimer in the readme
< 1252573710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but there are a lot more integer-pairs than cardinal directions. Still, I do get the point.
< 1252573730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not enough room to test all cardinal directions, I think
< 1252573737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just sure that someone, somewhere, somehow has implemented [] so that they work in some directions but not all.
< 1252573740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :West might still be fittable
< 1252573756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] are tested using a noncardinal vector
< 1252573764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which should hopefully guarantee that the cardinals work.
< 1252573775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's reasonable.
< 1252573789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're probably used for all the cardinals before that anyway.
< 1252573979 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252574039 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mycology's Befunge-93 area does do a _,#! #:< for output at least once
< 1252574088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when testing # over the edge, it goes west.
< 1252574093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm; maybe the page was lying, then. Or just used some ancient version.
< 1252574108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# over the edge was there even in ancient versions
< 1252574127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_,#! #:< might not have been
< 1252574165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ancient version of the interpreter itself, then.
< 1252574339 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252574355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252574359 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are crazy
< 1252574360 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/You_have_two_cows/18#Befunge
< 1252574411 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so crazy about that?
< 1252574452 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a working code to me
< 1252574478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What's crazy is that it doesn't use the >:#,_ print-loop idiom even though it's going eastwards.
< 1252574511 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole site (Uncyclopedia) and its explanation of the "two cows" is crazy
< 1252574513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not necessarily obvious unless you're experienced
< 1252574522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the "COWBOL" and Visual Basic examples ;-)
< 1252574534 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even puts an explicit 0 instead of relying on empty stack popping
< 1252574548 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all a joke ;-)
< 1252574577 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not x86 assembly?
< 1252574588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it assumes an OS by necessity
< 1252574624 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless it used libc, but I guess that's silly
< 1252574633 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s//sillier/
< 1252574649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do read the Visual Basic example, that's by far the funniest ;-)
< 1252574666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N64 and Game Boy assembly examples are funny. They don't exactly make much sense (both just set some sort of external value, GB one even referring to the undeclared num_cows) but the way they do it looks very realistic.
< 1252574679 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got the idea at the glimpse
< 1252574690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can easily imagine seeing a ";number of cows can only be modified during vblank" comment in a GB program.
< 1252574738 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252574746 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just saw the Atari Jaguar page ... very funny
< 1252574783 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect pic!!
< 1252574811 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the python implementation much
< 1252574839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jaguar was released in the US in 1992 to much fanfare, some trumpetfare and a good amount of bus fare."
< 1252574847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the N64 "use 'sw ..., offset(reg)' even if it does do a signed offset, instead of loading the full 8015F15C value to a register, since it saves an instruction" is also pretty realistic.
< 1252574965 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To make matters worse, the only programming language that the Atari Jaguar supported was the Brainfuck language borrowed from the Amiga."
< 1252575164 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252575180 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252575289 0 :immibis_!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252575343 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1252575349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those who are wondering (which is exactly none of you), the C64 basic entry "10 POKE 808,237" makes the STOP key stop working, so you can't interrupt the cow-printing. (Or at least it won't do what the key would normally do.)
< 1252575351 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis
< 1252575452 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stops stop, eh? ironic ;-)
< 1252575498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless the 237 is actually the correct value to point at, but I don't see why anyone should do that. Except maybe to make sure you *can* interrupt it properly, but that doesn't sound very likely.)
< 1252575549 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another gem from Uncyclopedia:
< 1252575554 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because Esperanto is not compatible with Electronic devices, most Esperantists have gotten by using the letters h, x, ^, and 卐. So the sentence 'good morning' becomes 'hxx^卐h^ 卐xh^x'."
< 1252575649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your Father was a baboon's rump and your mother spent all her time backed up against the wall by sailors!
< 1252575649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, laŭŝajne estas rano en mia bideo.
< 1252575654 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nice Red Dwarf reference)
< 1252575853 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, it's late
< 1252575856 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite all
< 1252575858 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252577181 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Download IceChat at www.icechat.net"
< 1252579234 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-bxztxecskgvlsirx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252580057 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@83.197.102.111 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252580499 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252580680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/You_have_two_cows/18#Befunge <-- looking at the TI-BASIC further below makes me laugh
< 1252580712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if skipping closing parenthesis is actually valid. brb going to test
< 1252580727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh it seems so
< 1252580764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ZX Spectrum one amused me
< 1252580805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1252580825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find needs some -exec that runs processes concurrently
< 1252580846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am annoyed by the pointlessness of some parts of some of the entries; for example, the SQL one has a "LIMIT 2" completely arbitrarily; it's an aggregate function call, it will never return more than one row.
< 1252580850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Use xargs and &
< 1252580864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even something crude like splitting in roughly two equal sized chunks would be useful
< 1252580883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how would that work?
< 1252580920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey the dc one...
< 1252580938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without the xargs, even: find foo | while read -r x; do stuff x &; done
< 1252580965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I would prefer to not start one process per file
< 1252580972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are thousands of files to be processes
< 1252580974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processed*
< 1252580983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Linux, processes are cheap
< 1252580994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not when those will do a lot of work at once
< 1252581004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I wanted to use both cores, not get OOM
< 1252581032 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, if you're doing something expensive then that's probably not a good idea
< 1252581052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the processes are quite memory intensive, each one will need a few MB during processing each file
< 1252581083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more about time; if they complete in 0.001s it doesn't matter if they need a few MB
< 1252581098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe 4-5 seconds per file
< 1252581117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's just a one-shot thing, just do the find, dump results to file, split it in twain, run two instances of your process.
< 1252581126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not a one shot thing.
< 1252581133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, because yes I thought about that
< 1252581138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not a one-shot thing, make a script which does that. :-P
< 1252581143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :P
< 1252581155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a bit of Perl for that sort of thing, but it's strictly for dispatching processes for our Sun Grid Engine cluster, not a general-purpose thing.
< 1252581158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe I'll write a parallel find wrapper script for find
< 1252581202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is a solved problem, if you want a more permanent solution
< 1252581216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ?
< 1252581222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1252581222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/parallel/ for example
< 1252581236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :savannah.nongnu.org uses an invalid security certificate.
< 1252581236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The certificate is not trusted because the issuer certificate is not trusted.
< 1252581236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Error code: sec_error_untrusted_issuer)
< 1252581239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1252581241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know
< 1252581270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's a cacert cert.
< 1252581333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah yes seems very useful
< 1252581343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if ubuntu has a package for it
< 1252581380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch doesn't seem to, at least
< 1252581384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm doesn't seem so
< 1252581453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though xargs does have the -P flag too, like they mention.
< 1252581544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that seems useful too
< 1252581554 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading the manpage is always a good thing to do first.
< 1252581557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't need the fancy, that just might do it. The parallel page lists all the shortcomings, though.
< 1252581759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xargs seems enough here
< 1252582956 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-bbfdczmsejamtzeg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252583015 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252583021 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252583023 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252583322 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252583542 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds
< 1252583929 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-vcprjvorjokatpwl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252584301 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Story on Digg databases hits reddit; people argue against what Digg did; Digg database engineer signs up on reddit, starts flaming and hits negative karma within an hour: http://www.reddit.com/user/philovivero http://digg.com/users/philovivero
< 1252584423 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252584453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, digg databases? what happened?
< 1252584494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click on the first link and you'll see the story.
< 1252584994 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252585574 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252585630 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252585764 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252586380 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252587443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252588972 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-cbfhkvdyaykgyuks JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252590666 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252590779 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252591007 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-zcgflwxhmctvqpqk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252592076 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252592085 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1252593006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An amusing quote from the article, btw; "Computing the intersection with a JOIN is much too slow in MySQL, so we have to do it in PHP."
< 1252594824 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawl
< 1252595920 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252597183 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252597542 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252598791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do you think they ever heard of "benchmarking"?
< 1252598816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they've heard of it, they benchmarked their PHP to beat their MySQL
< 1252598848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have a really hard time to believe that php would be faster than mysql at it. Even though mysql sucks. But so does PHP
< 1252598871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can easily be faster if the way they're doing the query and/or their DB structure sucks
< 1252598900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so
< 1252598972 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252599689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds himself humming "summon bigger fish"
< 1252599906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh
< 1252601156 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252602638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh and I thought I mentioned iwc earlier today, seems I misremembered
< 1252602738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't get iwc today though
< 1252602767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with the annotation?
< 1252602797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define knock
< 1252602798 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* deliver a sharp blow or push :"He knocked the glass clear across the room" \ * rap with the knuckles; "knock on the door" \ * the sound of knocking (as on a door or in an engine or bearing); "the knocking grew louder"
< 1252602810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well the issue was the reverse, I understood it was supposed to be a pun on that word, just not what else it was supposed to be like
< 1252602819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has knock got to do with it?
< 1252602834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know what knocking is
< 1252602839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least some of the meanings
< 1252602845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those mentioned there at least
< 1252602850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am guessing you are missing the right meaning of knock
< 1252602858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was not listed there
< 1252602862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and that one was?
< 1252602906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'find fault with; express criticism of; point out real or perceived flaws; "The paper criticized the new movie"; "Don't knock the food--it's free"'
< 1252602945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah didn't know that meaning
< 1252603287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what on earth has the vlc logo has got to do with that song though? I'm pretty sure that cone thing near the start was the vlc logo
< 1252603513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot make out the lyrics enough to tell if there's anything relevant said at that point
< 1252603542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sung
< 1252603553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252603600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I was playing it *in* vlc I first thought vlc failed in some way and was displaying a dummy image or something like that
< 1252603703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it _is_ also a generic road sign...
< 1252603746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_cone
< 1252603831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes but that specific image of it...
< 1252603838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is exactly the vlc logo
< 1252603857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it may still be used for the generic meaning
< 1252606209 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252607534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing"
< 1252609639 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252610345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252612079 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252612216 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:24:09 do read the Visual Basic example, that's by far the funniest ;-)
< 1252612222 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've yet to see anything funny on Uncyclopedia
< 1252612226 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I doubt this will be the first
< 1252612697 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009073109]"
< 1252612715 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252612793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ever considered a fingerprint for gettext?
< 1252612892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that I can't even remember what gettext is... nope
< 1252612899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some localization thing?
< 1252612914 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I18N thingy?
< 1252613418 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: man 3 gettext
< 1252613441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: google.com/search?q=gettext
< 1252614454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gettext is for lazy fornrs!
< 1252614689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "L2SPK enlgz", right?
< 1252614712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "fornrs" short for "fornicators"?
< 1252614807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:59 meh
< 1252614814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the SSL system is broken anyway?
< 1252614823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, context?
< 1252614831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:56 savannah.nongnu.org uses an invalid security certificate.
< 1252614832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:56 The certificate is not trusted because the issuer certificate is not trusted.
< 1252614834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:56 (Error code: sec_error_untrusted_issuer)
< 1252614845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I know it is broken
< 1252614847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSL is useful for avoiding eavesdropping; the verification system is shittier than a pile of bricks that are shit.
< 1252614857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is still irritating when firefox does that however
< 1252614866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so disable it :P
< 1252614870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how?
< 1252614880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, it's probably in about:config
< 1252614884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an extension
< 1252614887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252614896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possibly the most annoying error page ever though, I agree
< 1252614909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes three clicks and a wait of almost a second to bypass it
< 1252614915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, especially since there are so many clicks to get around it yeah
< 1252614933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also what... you agreed with me?
< 1252614933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no doubt the people who made it have never read a book on usability, because that shit does *not* make the user comprehend what you're trying to tell them
< 1252614934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH
< 1252614941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the universe is going to end this time
< 1252614941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm the alternate universe ehird.
< 1252614951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh ok. Nice to meet you
< 1252614952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i jump around in fields of candy floss all day and am filled with childlike naivete.
< 1252614955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you get the memo?
< 1252614966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-MemoServ- You have 0 memos (0 new).
< 1252614967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop
< 1252614989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torernts are unreasonably slow
< 1252615004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http download: ~800kiB/s
< 1252615012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torrent: ~150kiB/s
< 1252615018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*torrents
< 1252615022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is on a high-popularity torrent too
< 1252615034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if everyone was downloading from the same server at the same time? would you get ~800kiB/s then too?
< 1252615045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, see e.g. usenet providers
< 1252615047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set browser.ssl_override_behavior to 2 from the default 1, in which case it automatically downloads the certificate; that's a bit less clicking involved.
< 1252615061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost impossible to get a usenet provider to give you much less than your connection speed
< 1252615066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well assuming a server with good bw. but that costs quite a bit
< 1252615100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently not too much; you can get unlimited download, uncapped, uncensored usenet with a huge number of groups for $15/mo
< 1252615165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I meant for the server hoster, and yes it would work out if you get customer to pay. But I haven't seen linux distros over usenet. And linux distros over torrent is quite common
< 1252615178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there are Linux distros on usenet
< 1252615179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often where they can't afford bw
< 1252615189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usenet has everything
< 1252615195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh really? would be split into thousands of messages for the iso?
< 1252615206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Modern clients handle that automatically, dood.
< 1252615213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They show it as one and download them all automatically.
< 1252615215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then combine them
< 1252615218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252615228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly I haven't used any modern client then
< 1252615233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got some Debian disk image or other such thing torrented several megabytes per second. But I'm not completely certain on this.
< 1252615247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, obviously I mean binary oriented clients.
< 1252615255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I maxed my connection speed on the gentoo torrents a few times
< 1252615257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, everyone loves the Linux ISOs. Not so much love for the Windows ISOs.
< 1252615278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone can max out their connection on Ubuntu 17.97 Pooping Porpoise.
< 1252615296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well if a torrent isn't popular, what do you expect?
< 1252615306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1775 seeds, 2537 peers.
< 1252615309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it's a ghost down.
< 1252615311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*town
< 1252615313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for ubuntu for example?
< 1252615315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and here's why it doesn't fetch the certificate by default:
< 1252615316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody downloading this, nosiree.
< 1252615318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Similar numbers.
< 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This patch sets a default of 1, meaning that the cert dialog will be
< 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-populated with the site's URL, but as Kai mentions in bug 401575, by not
< 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-fetching it, we reduce the amount of text the user sees, and remove the
< 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ability to immediately click the override button."
< 1252615328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except all the Ubuntu ivory tower people have 100000000000000000000 jiggabit connections :P
< 1252615362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with SSL is that it's trying to replace human reason in determining whether you can trust something
< 1252615368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that will simply never work
< 1252615381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes "falling tree" animation in widelands is broken when you run at 2x normal speed.
< 1252615448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8248056.stm
< 1252615457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope they used TCP/IP over carrier pigeon.
< 1252615464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise I call for a rematch.
< 1252615503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm
< 1252615529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with QoS?
< 1252615529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Sure, the bandwidth is nice, but the latency sucks." // this)
< 1252615536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know what that is
< 1252615553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they should have made it carry an SSD
< 1252615554 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252615558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure pigeons can handle 81g :P
< 1252615559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is a RFC for IP over avian carrier with QoS
< 1252615560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252615570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why ...?
< 1252615577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I committed some nerd sin by not knowing that?
< 1252615581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252615613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, did they use QoS or not ;P
< 1252615627 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, SSL has global namespace.
< 1252615629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They used a USB memory stick.
< 1252615635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yes?
< 1252615640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -_- You don't know what QoS is?
< 1252615661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what QoS stands for.
< 1252615665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1252615796 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global namespace is not good for trustworthiness determination.
< 1252615844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1252615906 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mountainamerica.com? What the heck is that? Etc...
< 1252615920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A squatter page :P
< 1252615934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, DNS really needs distributing. Fuck the root servers.
< 1252615944 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like phishing page (I don't recall what the exect name was).
< 1252616551 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host)
< 1252616726 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1252616727 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1252618368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and speaking of the traffic cone, it's not exactly the VLC logo image. For one thing, in the video there's a dark ellipse on top of the cone; that's not in the VLC logo. And the VLC logo has a bit of reflections going on in there. (Admittedly it could be an older VLC logo, since it's so very similar. But it's not the same image that's in icon and about-box of the current VLC versions.)
< 1252618402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traffic coon
< 1252618429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:05:01 Story on Digg databases hits reddit; people argue against what Digg did; Digg database engineer signs up on reddit, starts flaming and hits negative karma within an hour: http://www.reddit.com/user/philovivero http://digg.com/users/philovivero
< 1252618431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha sweet
< 1252618606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:30:06 An amusing quote from the article, btw; "Computing the intersection with a JOIN is much too slow in MySQL, so we have to do it in PHP."
< 1252618608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1252619336 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they're doing a full cartesian join :P
< 1252619398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... Is quite retarded.
< 1252620060 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252620825 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252622643 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252624084 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252624330 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252624733 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252624735 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252626031 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-171.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252626255 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bo-ring
< 1252626965 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252629420 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252630063 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252631857 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252632558 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252632566 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg i have internet! :o
< 1252632623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg.
< 1252633440 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone's got the internet
< 1252633453 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see.
< 1252633511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's augur!
< 1252633519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1252634007 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur!
< 1252634011 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make love to me!
< 1252634012 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_!
< 1252634013 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1252634015 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1252634835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1252634905 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic lovestory
< 1252634918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally
< 1252635914 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252635920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi sir gay, oh
< 1252635937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1252635965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not used to random insults from ehird. Insults, yes, but usually related to me doing or asking something dumb
< 1252635979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at pronunciation puns
< 1252635985 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-138.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252635996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a punsult
< 1252636024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Punsult. Really now. You have sunken to a new low. :P
< 1252636029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sunk, maybe.
< 1252636310 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host)
< 1252636765 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252637896 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a horrible singing voice
< 1252637912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't try to sound androgenous, that might help
< 1252638004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, my screaming probably isn't helping. I'll omit it
< 1252638173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, vixy, YouTube is not, in fact, down
< 1252638286 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252638286 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252638286 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252638325 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252638325 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252638325 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252638874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB
< 1252639351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[02:58] I have a horrible singing voice
< 1252639353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[02:58] Maybe I shouldn't try to sound androgenous, that might help
< 1252639355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:00] Also, my screaming probably isn't helping. I'll omit it
< 1252639356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l o l w u t
< 1252639378 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252639400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252639427 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to hear my horrible singing voice?
< 1252639439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT IF IT INVOLVED SCREAMING AT ANY POINT IN THE PROCESS.
< 1252639460 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your screaming at my singing, or my singing? I don't scream in this
< 1252639501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only because you omitted it. I AM NOT A FAN OF THINGS WITH SCREAMING EVEN IF THE ACTUAL SCREAMING HAS BEEN OMITTED.
< 1252639555 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The screaming was artificially added. If you can tolerate Paint it Black, you can tolerate this, unless you can't tolerate bad singers
< 1252639627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS EVEN WORSE.
< 1252639637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even want to know what you were doing or what your goal is but I cam convinced that it is almost certainly the work of a particularly insane Satan and want no part in it. ESPECIALLY IF YOU OMITTED SCREAMING AND THEN ADDED IT ARTIFICIALLY.
< 1252639652 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other way around
< 1252639655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*am convinced
< 1252639797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you removed the artificial screaming and added real ones?
< 1252639804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY MUST YOU CONTINUALLY MAKE IT WORSE AND WORSE
< 1252639840 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The screaming wasn't a part of the song that this was based on. The new lyrics calls for anguished cries. I did that, but then cut that part out when I tried recording it again
< 1252639858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS SOUNDS INCOMPREHENSIBLY AWFUL
< 1252639863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTHULHU HAS NOTHING ON THIS
< 1252639972 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252642517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class frok
< 1252642519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1252642520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Cygwin, fork.cc
< 1252642620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin's fork does the obvious, which is "create new process of me, munge a setjmp thingy into it, make it longjmp to here".
< 1252642853 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252642995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252643874 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252644005 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252651666 0 :PatashuBangaa!n=Patashu@c122-106-162-185.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252651775 0 :PatashuBangaa!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Patashu
< 1252652969 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252653335 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252653919 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252655041 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252655261 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252655999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252656000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252656035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Punsult. Really now. You have sunken to a new low. :P
< 1252656049 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252656060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok, he just needs some coaching by a professional punsultant.
< 1252656333 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd laugh, but I'm 3/4ths asleep
< 1252656361 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night
< 1252656752 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252657657 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252658286 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-wiutzqqpccptklyw JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252658381 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252658708 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252659989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252659996 0 :ehird!i=5b696218@gateway/web/freenode/x-qryibwjrkgtyyyxh JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252660004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 is... upsettingly good...
< 1252660055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually upset that it's good, that wasn't an exaggeration.
< 1252660118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I can't get audio to work. Otherwise I might die of ... upsettedness.
< 1252660132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH IS TOTALLY A REAL CONDITION
< 1252660225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252660373 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252660764 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252661885 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252662119 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal"
< 1252662457 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252663228 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252670188 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252671161 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252673214 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-ihqfhapgecwnvggd JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252673480 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252675154 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252677842 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-88-40.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252678137 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252678448 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252679267 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252679338 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-nrtvplaciahzljgv JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252679449 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252679816 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252679875 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252680170 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252683166 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252683661 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing"
< 1252683918 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252686214 0 :MigoMipo!n=john@84-217-12-110.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252687460 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal"
< 1252688189 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252688381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION discovers the mezzacotta ads now have links
< 1252688419 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252688492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a couple of them anyhow
< 1252690039 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252691112 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252691483 0 :DADDYc_OOL!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-167.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252691516 0 :DADDYc_OOL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah
< 1252694084 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-171.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252694982 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252695004 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252696104 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252696890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252696974 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252698103 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252698106 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1252698161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo
< 1252698317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Medium.
< 1252698422 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252698867 0 :atrapado!n=roper@50.56.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252698915 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any "design by comittee" esolangs. Preferably comitee with 8 or >20 members... :-)
< 1252698953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magenta
< 1252698957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of ABCDEF
< 1252698970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we never finished that one
< 1252699028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if funge98 qualifies
< 1252699048 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252699060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is such a thing as good design by commitee.
< 1252699076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: Haskell)
< 1252699134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is only an honorary esolang though
< 1252699135 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I said that preferably 8 or >20 members...
< 1252699142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge98 should qualify
< 1252699158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe not quite >20 :-P
< 1252699215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I didn't cite it as an example of esolang design by comittee.
< 1252699243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know.
< 1252699264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright.
< 1252699279 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-86-171.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252699307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amused by how three different people used the word "committee" but none spelled it correctly
< 1252699322 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And each spelled it differently
< 1252699345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I spelt it differently each time I used it, too.
< 1252699374 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, I read your latter statement as being by oerjan
< 1252699375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks and notes he didn't actually use the word
< 1252699467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it wasn't that amusing then
< 1252699491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it was only two people after all
< 1252699569 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Are there trinary 2-operand universal logic operators (like binary has NAND and NOR)?
< 1252699643 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't NAND and NOR also work with 3-operands?
< 1252699650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said 2-operandd
< 1252699655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's BUT
< 1252699657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for trinary, not binary numbers
< 1252699711 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the definition of BUT?
< 1252699722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: look at ais523's C-INTERCAL docs
< 1252699850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if malbolge's crazy operation is universal
< 1252699867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Design by commitee" means an anarchistic system where each version-control commit has completely independent ideas about design.
< 1252699922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice try, but that is hardly right - that's open-source
< 1252699943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :design by committee is like that, except commits have to be voted in
< 1252700001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :012/012: 100 102 221
< 1252700010 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANS'94 Forth was designed by Committee and it concentrated on all the wrong things.
< 1252700214 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1252700342 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you cannot get 2 without starting with it
< 1252700423 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252700448 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-element permutation group has no generators. It has 1 element of order 1, 3 elements of order 2 and 2 elements of order 3.
< 1252700502 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252700513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that supposed to be relevant to the operand question?
< 1252700523 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, there is no 1-input operand which is universal for 1-input trinary expressions (binary has NOT).
< 1252700541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252700589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no NOT isn't
< 1252700591 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Is maximum together with universal 1-input manipulation universal in trinary logic...
< 1252700601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are forgetting the constant functions
< 1252700722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can construct if-then-else with it
< 1252700814 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... INV(MAX(INV(A), INV(B)) = MIN(A, B).
< 1252700850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x=const then y else z is max(min(y, if x=const then 2 else 0), min(z, if x=const then 0 else 2))
< 1252700855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1252700870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the inner if's are just 1-input functions)
< 1252700961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and given if-then-else you can branch arbitrarily on the value of a variable
< 1252701052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with minimum, one needs only to be able to construct arbitiary logic function with one nonzero. And such can be constructed by manipulating inputs to be of wanted value only at that point (zero elsewhere), passing through MAX.
< 1252701083 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, universal 1-input manipulation and MAX is universal set.
< 1252701084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought that was what he just did
< 1252701127 0 :ehird!i=5b696218@gateway/web/freenode/x-fovpacjugoyaisda JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252701136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:41:46 Hi :-)
< 1252701152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a dream involving you, also other #esotericers but they were just j random #esotericer
< 1252701177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm an anagram of j random. almost.
< 1252701199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost anagrams are the best type of anagram
< 1252701234 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252701237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the worst
< 1252701241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should try mIRC + one of those things that retheme the IRC window text
< 1252701246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they can make it behave more normally
< 1252701251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., not fucked up copy/paste behaviour
< 1252701262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like with puns, worst = best
< 1252701304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, windows 7 really is quite wonderful.
< 1252701316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have a fever
< 1252701318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252701362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:07 "Design by commitee" means an anarchistic system where each version-control commit has completely independent ideas about design.
< 1252701363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a small nanobot infestation in your brain. resistance is futile.
< 1252701364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:12:02 nice try, but that is hardly right - that's open-source
< 1252701365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++
< 1252701391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best open software is either made by an individual or three, or a tightly-focused group with the same goals
< 1252701426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux is an edge-case, it's basically the latter (everyone with commit access), just they steal all their commits
< 1252701435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, linux has so many modules that it's basically a bunch of seperate software
< 1252701448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*separate
< 1252701555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder why Windows 7 still makes the default user an administrator...
< 1252701556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's irritating
< 1252701561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess UAC mitigates it
< 1252701735 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: was I in your dream?
< 1252701865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't remember seeing any people per se, but metaphysically, i think so
< 1252701871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as if it made any sense or anything
< 1252701965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, IE 8 expands tabs in the taskbar switcher thing as if they were windows ... i miss that in chrome
< 1252702492 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-171.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252702680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is proved that for the Dual-Pivot Quicksort the average number of comparisons is 2*n*ln(n), the average number of swaps is 0.8*n*ln(n), whereas classical Quicksort algorithm has 2*n*ln(n) and 1*n*ln(n) respectively.
< 1252702683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.openjdk.core-libs.devel/2628
< 1252703169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252703180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could make some changes to cygwin's fork.cc to port it to MinGW
< 1252703195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if MinGW implements the bits of POSIX that matters apart from fork()? like, does it do mmap()?
< 1252703272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MinGW isn't a POSIX platform, it's essentially just GCC for Windows
< 1252703332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah, so it just uses the libc stuff that windows has?
< 1252703338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252703345 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning that it doesn't support C99, for instance.
< 1252703346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure that includes a good portion of POSIX though, no?
< 1252703357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some part of it, I guess.
< 1252703361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap(), no.
< 1252703364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'aww.
< 1252703409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice to have a cygwin-like thing without all the underlying baggage...
< 1252703444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what baggage?
< 1252703476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that it has its own process table. The fact that it has its own filesystem layer. I could go on.
< 1252703511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just build an app against the cygwin headers and use that without the baggage
< 1252703533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, what? That won't actually, you know, link.
< 1252703544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the functions use those elements of baggage, see.
< 1252703551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't call them if you don't want the bagage.
< 1252703571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well sure, the baggage is there, but you can't see it unless you know to look
< 1252703602 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you need to link it to the cygwin stuff as well
< 1252703606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations, your solution to the baggage, which adds dependencies, is unneeded, hinders nativeness and slows down the Cygwin system (it's dog slow) is... don't look at it!
< 1252703609 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't implement fork() in only a .h :-P
< 1252703618 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess you could but anyway
< 1252703632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can implement fork() without your own process table, filesystem layer, ...
< 1252703680 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is that sure, it'd be nice to have a system without it, but I don't think it's that bad
< 1252703683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's 9/11
< 1252703688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd explain why reddit is all, you know
< 1252703688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9/11
< 1252703689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() is dog slow on Windows by default
< 1252703704 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Windows even support it natively?
< 1252703708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but you can implement it
< 1252703709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, and that is why.
< 1252703724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin's fork() isn't copy-on-write; I don't think that's neccessary.
< 1252703743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might help for speed
< 1252703753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not much
< 1252703753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I don't think it's neccessary to have no copy on write on Windows
< 1252703763 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1252703764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's definitely important for speed
< 1252703769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() being expensive kills unix
< 1252703773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's important
< 1252703778 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it probably wouldn't help much
< 1252703792 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spawning processes on Windows is expensive whether you do some fork() stuff on top or not
< 1252703795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could do fork() with a thread and some asm hackery.
< 1252703803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheapening the fork() stuff won't help much, probably
< 1252703809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it will
< 1252703818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin gets disturbingly slow on long shell scripts
< 1252703820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fork() is so shit
< 1252703826 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because Windows is shit
< 1252703830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spawning processes takes time
< 1252703837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh
< 1252703863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone make an LD_PRELOAD type thingy that replaces the process spawning stuff with something fast :-P
< 1252703883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If currently we have 0.1s to spawn a process + 0.1s to copy the memory image of another, turning the latter into 0.01s means it's still dog slow
< 1252703921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank god it isn't 0.1s :P
< 1252703930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels like it is
< 1252703931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I hope not at least
< 1252703954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The final AACS License agreements also include provisions to phase out the use of analog output in Blu-ray players. It says that all Blu-ray players manufactured after December 31, 2010 must limit the analog output to SD resolution. After December 31, 2013, no device that can decrypt AACS content can have any analog outputs. The intent of this is to limit casual piracy and has no effect on how you author your Blu-ray discs.
< 1252703973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blu-ray sure is doing well innit
< 1252704199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless by analog they mean "can be seen by humans and cameras", I don't quite understand the point
< 1252704377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the digital output has DRM.
< 1252704385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using a camcorder results in very bad quality
< 1252704702 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat"
< 1252705023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that thinkpad was a T46p.
< 1252705027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1252705036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 hours?
< 1252705044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive. Well, I don't need to worry about battery.
< 1252705050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You could check out Interix.
< 1252705057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on a p.
< 1252705059 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252705061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's discrete graphics.
< 1252705061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and it was 12 cell
< 1252705069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1252705069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does the p stand for
< 1252705074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discrete graphics
< 1252705075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-integrated
< 1252705077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't anyone just make their own Blu-Ray player that doesn't have those restrictions?
< 1252705078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252705080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok
< 1252705082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's illegal.
< 1252705089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you'd have to reverse-engineer the DRM
< 1252705090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that guy owned three thinkpads XD
< 1252705097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he had another with him today
< 1252705097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read: yes, they can.
< 1252705110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: for a limited period of time. unless you're in china
< 1252705115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wonder why.
< 1252705123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T43p not portable enough for using all the time?
< 1252705132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess that 12-cell weighs a lot, or the UltraBay battery.
< 1252705133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal things can be done.
< 1252705142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh yeah his forth computer was a netbook
< 1252705145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not be wise, but they're no less possible than legal things.
< 1252705149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so three notebooks and one netbook
< 1252705157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and a tower at home
< 1252705166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A netbook is stupid if you already have a notebook with a long battery life.
< 1252705178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it is a lot less heavy
< 1252705183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1252705189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lightweight notebook, then.
< 1252705197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UltraBay battery seems to be 235g.
< 1252705201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a netbook will probably get more battery time
< 1252705209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs over 14 hours?
< 1252705216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and is there a T46p too?
< 1252705220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1252705222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a p for every T.
< 1252705232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the one he had today was 46 but not completely sure
< 1252705236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, every recent one.
< 1252705248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Er, you said T46p before
< 1252705252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252705255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah
< 1252705262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry, he had a T42 today
< 1252705263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no T46
< 1252705272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T60 or T43?
< 1252705280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, T43 then I guess
< 1252705286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T43p
< 1252705287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bad at remembering numbers
< 1252705291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T42
< 1252705296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looks like it
< 1252705319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and that is the one he had today
< 1252705327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which? The T42?
< 1252705335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... T43p was the long battery one, the T42 the one he had today
< 1252705339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything clear now?
< 1252705348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1252705363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I guess I should try and get a Core 2 T60p, stick an UltraBay battery and an SSD in there, and upgrade the RAM to the max.
< 1252705377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the T60p looks quite thick: compare:
< 1252705389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/1/1c/ThinkpadT43P.JPG
< 1252705392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/8/8e/ThinkPadT60.jpg
< 1252705394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably just perspective, but eh.
< 1252705399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it has the IBM logo on it.
< 1252705407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, what is that thing sticking out the side?)
< 1252705421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was going to ask you that
< 1252705446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/3331-1.jpg It's not in this photo.
< 1252705456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/8/8e/ThinkPadT60.jpg <-- very blue compared to the neutral grey in http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/1/1c/ThinkpadT43P.JPG
< 1252705459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect bad photo
< 1252705462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it looks very nice in that photo, although a bit high dpi. I don't think I can read that text.)
< 1252705472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a Lenovo-supplied photo, but true.
< 1252705488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 14" T60p is only available in 1400x1050 in the 14" version, it seems.
< 1252705509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extra pixels are nice, but using Windows would be a bitch; it hates everything above 96dpi.
< 1252705512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nice resolution
< 1252705513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, programs break if you set it higher.
< 1252705523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought you WANTED high dpi?
< 1252705535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, I do, for Linux, where it'll work swimmingly.
< 1252705545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't get both in one laptop
< 1252705550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But look at the icons on http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/3331-1.jpg
< 1252705556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you read their tet?
< 1252705557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*text
< 1252705575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to tell from the photo size. How large is the screen?
< 1252705581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The top one says "Recycle Bin"
< 1252705585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get any sort of perspective
< 1252705586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD
< 1252705595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14" diagonal 4:2
< 1252705597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*4:3
< 1252705601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe 14.1".
< 1252705608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't see why not, if I'm sitting in front of it
< 1252705614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to a down scaled photo of it
< 1252705623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the text is like a mm on screen.
< 1252705625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, the T60p is heavy: 2.65kg.
< 1252705625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the one below ways Internet Explorer
< 1252705631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that graphics card weighs, huh.
< 1252705656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one after that is "My Network Places"
< 1252705667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately *old* integrated graphics is useless for anything.
< 1252705673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't really go for a non-p model.
< 1252705706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway 12 cell battery + battery in ultrabay will last a bit for light work. Consider that during idle I can get my R500 down to ~8.5W, (12-13 W if connected to busy wlan, like at uni)
< 1252705726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd likely go for a 6-cell + ultrabay.
< 1252705737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is 6 cell the standard?
< 1252705737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 cell might get, like, 4 hours less than a 12-cell, AT THE VERY WORST
< 1252705742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, that is what I have.
< 1252705746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll get, like, 10 hours
< 1252705752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a default 6-cell on an R60 and it lasts for 2 hours at best
< 1252705754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it lifts the back up a bit but doesn't poke out
< 1252705759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thus the UltraBay battery
< 1252705768 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252705776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 235g of battery in the shape of a CD drive.
< 1252705784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives me a bit more than 3.2 hours it seems. But I haven't really tried with a light load all the time, rather very busy, then completely idle (or even suspended) and so on
< 1252705785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you lack a CD drive.
< 1252705801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, loading system fully got it up at 27 W btw
< 1252705802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't use CDs apart from to install old stuff I have and boot.
< 1252705810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case I can pop out the battery and pop in the CD drive.
< 1252705818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh.
< 1252705821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was number crunching + heavy disk activity though
< 1252705832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and high load on the gbit ethernet
< 1252705833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I was originally considering the X200; it has no CD drive at all.
< 1252705850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I won't get your magically low power usage due to the components being older
< 1252705858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, install over network then?
< 1252705866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that in response to
< 1252705878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: I was originally considering the X200; it has no CD drive at all.
< 1252705894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That Ultrabay battery would buy you what, an hour?
< 1252705917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 14 hours with 12-cell + Ultrabay for the person at AnMaster's uni with a T43p
< 1252705933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, most of that being the 12-cell :-)
< 1252705933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 6-cell + Ultrabay should get about 10 hours
< 1252705940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, no
< 1252705954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly 3.5 hours from ultrabay
< 1252705959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 9.5 from 12 cell
< 1252705963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16834995034&ATT=34-995-034&CMP=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Notebook+Batteries+/+AC+Adapters-_-Lenovo-_-34995034 says "a bit over an hour" and "about 1-1.5 hours"
< 1252705978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Did they specify the model and workload?
< 1252705983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what ultrabay model is that
< 1252705986 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T60p and T60 respectively
< 1252705993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Click the link?
< 1252705994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there has been a shitload of them
< 1252705999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, halving AnMaster's number let's say 4.75 hours from the 6-cell
< 1252706016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd get roughly 8.25 hours, assuming same power usage as T43p.
< 1252706019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he did say he recently replaced batteries due to them being worn out.
< 1252706023 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other guy said 1.5 hours with max power savings on a T60
< 1252706025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in August
< 1252706026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably less, because of newer components, except more, because dual-core.
< 1252706041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm going to get an ultrabay one myself :)
< 1252706065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, was he running linux? because dynticks + HPET helps a lot.
< 1252706081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it
< 1252706082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that saves 3-4 W alone for me
< 1252706107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway, the X200 which is a full Core 2 Duo, 12" widescreen, 4GB RAM kind of machine, except no CD drive, gets 10 hours on the 9-cell
< 1252706108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I tested back under arch with custom kernel with/without dynticks)
< 1252706109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alone
< 1252706109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and
< 1252706113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no ultrabay battery
< 1252706115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, more like 9 hours
< 1252706116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still
< 1252706134 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Xfoo series are kinda power-optimized AFAIK
< 1252706147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ubuntu uses more power than arch, seems to be due to more processes in background
< 1252706179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But still full-power
< 1252706180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and turning off wlan saves several watts
< 1252706218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and newer systems have SATA power link management
< 1252706223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Just saying that a T60 might get less than half of that
< 1252706224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but T42p won't
< 1252706253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nor T43p)
< 1252706262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If this dude gets 14 hours on a T43p with 12-cell + UltraBay, I'm pretty sure I can get 8-9 on a T60p with a 6-cell + UltraBay
< 1252706274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's possible Mr. Dude is lying
< 1252706278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or guessing
< 1252706295 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about the differences T43p - T60p
< 1252706298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he was using linux and I did notice he was using low screen brightness setting
< 1252706309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I expect that's with minimal settings
< 1252706315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't look like ubuntu either
< 1252706323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmm, that last bit is lame
< 1252706324 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I daresay that a 6-cell + UltraBay will get no more than half of 14 hours
< 1252706335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 hours is fine
< 1252706343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 hours is pushing it severely
< 1252706351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, bleh.
< 1252706351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's on a T43p, remember.
< 1252706351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure what distro, but the gnome menu wasn't branded with any distro logo
< 1252706359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd get the X200, but that screen is so small.
< 1252706374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, and the T60p, while dual-core, has more power-efficient components
< 1252706379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's Core 2, not Pentium M
< 1252706396 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were to get one of those out-sticking 12-cell batteries I'd get maybe 5 hours on my R60
< 1252706408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use mine on less than max brightness indoors too. Because it is too bright otherwise. One notch below max for me, but his was more like mid-setting
< 1252706439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, you could get ultra low voltage Xeons in the past
< 1252706450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err Xenon?
< 1252706451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1252706454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xeon
< 1252706460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah
< 1252706466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they like for servers?
< 1252706468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I always use my display at 100% brightness unless it's late and my eyes are hurting
< 1252706478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't think my display is bright enough; whites are quite gray
< 1252706487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on battery I use it at 75% for power saving, works fine indoors
< 1252706493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Sossaman was a low-/ultra-low-power and double-processor capable CPU (like AMD Quad FX), based on the "Yonah" processor, for ultradense non-consumer environment (i.e. targeted at the blade-server and embedded markets), and it was rated at a thermal design power (TDP) of 31 W (LV: 1.66 GHz and 2 GHz ) and 15 W (ULV: 1.66 GHz)[2]."
< 1252706510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Lenovo made the X200 in a 4:3 14" version
< 1252706513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also most displays look fine unless standing beside a superior display :P
< 1252706513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be on it like something I'd be on
< 1252706519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not IMO
< 1252706531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get annoyed using the old 19" LCD in this house, for instance
< 1252706541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said *most*
< 1252706541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because dark gray is basically white on it
< 1252706548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can get bad enough
< 1252706550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is pretty normal
< 1252706552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it is easy to notice always
< 1252706562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cost like 150 pounds in 2006
< 1252706566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh right, forgot you didn't use upper-segment monitors :P
< 1252706582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1252706583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$250 is a lot for a 19" today, at least
< 1252706585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mac does
< 1252706593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc $250 in SEK
< 1252706594 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. http://images.google.com/images?q=%24250+in+SEK&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi
< 1252706597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252706599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdu
< 1252706600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* 250 $
< 1252706604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 250 $ in SEK
< 1252706605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 250 USD in SEK
< 1252706606 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250 US$ = 1 750.43061 Swedish kronor
< 1252706607 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250 U.S. dollars = 1 750.43061 Swedish kronor
< 1252706613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 150 pounds in SEK
< 1252706614 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :150 British pounds = 1 753.19629 Swedish kronor
< 1252706618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 SEK out! :P
< 1252706626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And that error rating was .1 SEK out)
< 1252706629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((etc))
< 1252706644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a pound ~ a USD atm?
< 1252706645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252706655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1252706656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread
< 1252706663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, no :P
< 1252706669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dollar ~= pound * 1.6
< 1252706684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually, closer to 1.5
< 1252706685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1252706686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.7
< 1252706695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder if C has ~= ...
< 1252706701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252706703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 1 GBP in USD
< 1252706703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it wouldn't make sense
< 1252706704 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 British pound = 1.6693 U.S. dollars
< 1252706704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1252706706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~~
< 1252706706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would
< 1252706710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo~~;
< 1252706712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice
< 1252706719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C needs unary equal thingies
< 1252706723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~= foo;
< 1252706727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or that
< 1252706730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mainly:
< 1252706731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!= foo;
< 1252706736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is REALLY USEFUL, HEY?
< 1252706738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1252706743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = !foo; looks so stupid
< 1252706745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do
< 1252706749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo ^= true
< 1252706753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define TOGGLE(x) x = !x
< 1252706755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that looks stupid
< 1252706759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE YOU SHOUT
< 1252706762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Lame
< 1252706766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, true: not define
< 1252706766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d
< 1252706770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define toggle(x) (x) = (!x)
< 1252706773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however
< 1252706780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may break if it evaluates x twice
< 1252706782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo ^= 1 for you non-C99ers
< 1252706803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define toggle(x) ((x) = (!(x)))
< 1252706809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need bitwise self-not
< 1252706810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1252706813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo~~
< 1252706816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, i t's an lvalue
< 1252706818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's
< 1252706822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for: foo = ~foo;
< 1252706823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evaluating it twice does fuck all
< 1252706827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you do foo()->x
< 1252706829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means you're a retard
< 1252706834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you throw the result away
< 1252706837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so achieve nothing
< 1252706841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um
< 1252706841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless foo() adds it to some global list
< 1252706846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case YOUR PROGRAM FUCKING SUCKS
< 1252706853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if foo()->x is memory mapped
< 1252706863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your program is shit like a dungheap of shitness
< 1252706880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean, memory mapped to a device output register
< 1252706884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any time you do {foo()->x = y;} you've got some black magic that you won't be able to reason about later
< 1252706903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generalizations yay
< 1252706909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do {foo()->x = y;} while(true);
< 1252706917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of like "Killing kittens means you're bad"
< 1252707001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if that is the least painful way? You know, death help to kittens
< 1252707006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what posting a link to some loot on thepiratebay on a popular reddit post will result in
< 1252707019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably fire, brimstone and the magical disappearing post and subreddit ban
< 1252707024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NEVAR
< 1252707025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to some fatal disease
< 1252707035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are still cute, QED
< 1252707063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct M { int x; }; struct S { struct M m; }; struct M *foo(struct S *s) { return &s->m; } ... foo(s)->x = 1; /* not very black */
< 1252707091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you prefer to see it wither away for days in painful spasms?
< 1252707098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't that worse?
< 1252707104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it looks amusing, definitely!
< 1252707113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN HAS INTERPREATIVE DANCE
< 1252707118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*INTERPRETIVE
< 1252707138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the eyes get all runny at the end.
< 1252707139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But that doesn't change every tiem you call foo()
< 1252707156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: KITTY IZ SAD BECUZ CANT HAZ CHEEZBURGR
< 1252707161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*time, also
< 1252707190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if it had been a pony instead of a kitten?
< 1252707200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You didn't specify it had to
< 1252707202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ponies are disposable! There is an infinite supply of them
< 1252707220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True, I was referring to in the context of #define TOGGLE(x) ((x) = !(x)) breaking.
< 1252707254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOGGLE(x++)
< 1252707260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :D
< 1252707272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh even better
< 1252707283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOGGLE(*(++x))
< 1252707285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING INCOMPREHENSIBLY WRONG
< 1252707303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is even well defined
< 1252707313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case
< 1252707325 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOGGLE(*x++) would be perfectly fine if it evaluated only once
< 1252707327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it is quite comprehensible
< 1252707337 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOGGLE(x++) less so
< 1252707340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is so bad :P
< 1252707360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x++ is quite usual in C if you're dealing with strings or the like.
< 1252707397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gues
< 1252707398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1252707419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, when is it "ok" to use something like: *((float*)((void*)&myintarray)) + 4*i
< 1252707435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um.
< 1252707436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never?
< 1252707463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there is one case, when you are dealing with SIMD intrinsics, thus being restricted to a specific compiler anyway
< 1252707465 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always?
< 1252707483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You don't need the (void*), do you?)
< 1252707494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9jo27/i_work_for_microsoft_as_a_developer_and_worked_on/c0d1d5u?context=3 <- This is the first time I've ever felt bad for piracy XD
< 1252707501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you need the void* to shut up gcc shouting about aliasing rules
< 1252707522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what does it say?
< 1252707554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't GCC provide specific types for the SIMD intrinsics to use?
< 1252707579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes, but I didn't remember the exact name. And that name differs from icc and gcc anyway
< 1252707596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like __mm_128_f or whatever in icc I think
< 1252707603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and v4sf in gcc?
< 1252707605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it sucks balls, C *does* allow for metaprogramming...
< 1252707613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should remove that link :-P
< 1252707616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what do you mean?
< 1252707622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep
< 1252707623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a C preprocessor.
< 1252707628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are allowed to use it.
< 1252707650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Errormessage plz
< 1252707650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does "AIO Activated" mean?
< 1252707651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But I shouldn't cave my economic principles to some Microsoft lackey putting three symbols together! :(
< 1252707660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All-in-One; it has both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions installable
< 1252707664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Activated means, you know, you don't need a key.
< 1252707665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you fail
< 1252707666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at counting
< 1252707667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it does suck, it sucks quite a bit less than some of the alternatives in C.
< 1252707680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :":-("
< 1252707682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 1
< 1252707682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- 2
< 1252707683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( 3
< 1252707690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\n 4
< 1252707690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you do
< 1252707693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh I thought you were providing an example after
< 1252707694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I see no \n
< 1252707696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"three symbols together! :("
< 1252707704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where ":(" was the example
< 1252707704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What?
< 1252707710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252707717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you were including it to illustrate the point
< 1252707722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I wasn't.
< 1252707723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought
< 1252707727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's the ctrl+enter / click for "submit"
< 1252707734 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Errormessage plz
< 1252707743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Clicking isn't a symbol
< 1252707750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, the comment doesn't include it
< 1252707755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also had to click "reply"
< 1252707758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh don't remember exact warning message
< 1252707765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the comment is what is making me :( and it is three symbols
< 1252707772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, something like "blah blah breaks strict aliasing rules"
< 1252707779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will only happen at -O2 and above
< 1252707787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because gcc doesn't check aliasing below that
< 1252707798 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's what I was missing.
< 1252707803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it only uses these rules to optimise harder at -O2 and above
< 1252707805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules
< 1252707811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1252707826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is a variant with "may" instead of "will"
< 1252707832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it isn't sure
< 1252707834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here it is
< 1252707850 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252707872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But isn't doing (void*) just inviting it to break instead of erroring
< 1252707876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do some C black magic.
< 1252707878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, if you are absolutely sure about what you are doing it is ok
< 1252707881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't you be disabling the optimization in question or something
< 1252707882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot about the language I don't know.
< 1252707908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in this specific case it isn't dangerous because the thing I casted is a const pattern
< 1252707913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it won't change
< 1252707913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252707925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh nice quit message
< 1252707941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With const it should probably work, yes.
< 1252707976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb shower
< 1252708003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"night" almost an hour ago and now shower? O_o
< 1252708013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, real night from me anyways ->
< 1252708113 0 :ehird!i=5b696218@gateway/web/freenode/x-vypxpzhphtryhuhv JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252708120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: lol@that a-patch thing to remove the ads from WLM
< 1252708125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you mentioned
< 1252708138 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Islam is the light!
< 1252708145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some arabic in the top-left hand corner of the site and every. single. news post starts with "Praise be to God."
< 1252708147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :D
< 1252708175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now you can remove the advertisements and open more than one Messenger at a time (polygamy)"
< 1252708180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DID NOT HAVE TO CALL THAT POLYGAMY
< 1252708342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy fucking shit, the default chat window is bloated
< 1252708345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hugest avatars ever
< 1252708500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's the worst chat client, ever
< 1252708514 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252708515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uninstalling without hesitation
< 1252708835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: this guy's forums are gold!
< 1252708844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[“Or [they are] like darkness within an unfathomable sea which is covered by waves, upon which are waves, over which are clouds, darkness…”]]
< 1252708846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This description was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like.]]
< 1252708867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sea has lots of waves. Also, there is a sky above and it is dark. There are clouds in it.
< 1252708874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, this man has seen the sea.
< 1252708988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're all dirty chatzilla users, you windowsers
< 1252708994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the mircers.
< 1252709000 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I don't run it in firefox.
< 1252709008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's a significant number of windowsers that use irssi
< 1252709009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason
< 1252709017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: well yes, that's more insane
< 1252709022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be like a friend of mine
< 1252709026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly
< 1252709029 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who keeps his desktop as a VNC
< 1252709049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has his irssi on an SSH session on remote desktop that's actually on another computer :/
< 1252709052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: NOT
< 1252709052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNNY
< 1252709053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252709061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: cease being his friend. he is crazy.
< 1252709063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a bad way
< 1252709064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252709078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: lets him work from home, so I think he's quite sane
< 1252709108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do have my irssi on an ssh session
< 1252709121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(via putty)
< 1252709175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, basically all windowsers do
< 1252709177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you need cygwin
< 1252709189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there is a windows installer
< 1252709190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still
< 1252709194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh seems to be the most popular method
< 1252709195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with putty
< 1252709349 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252709948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, is it just me or is Foxit Reader kind of crap?
< 1252709951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe older versions are better.
< 1252710128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads Foxit v2
< 1252710134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it has a netscape plugin that Chrome can use.
< 1252710197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "night" almost an hour ago and now shower? O_o <-- time traveling sure is annoying indeed.
< 1252710217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish you would stop saying night
< 1252710258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foxit 2 looks exactly the same as 3.1, except it doesn't try and install the "Foxit toolbar", which is an improvement. The installer still uses faux Windows XP widgets and the app itself still has iffy-looking widgets - especially the menus.
< 1252710271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't there a *Windows-native* lightweight PDF reader with a Netscape-style plugin?
< 1252710282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is foxit?
< 1252710288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A PDF reader.
< 1252710300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, acrobat reader 3.0?
< 1252710306 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how difficult it would be to add a NPAPI plugin to sumatra.
< 1252710313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't 3.0 like super-ancient
< 1252710318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it'll work very well
< 1252710320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with new PDFs
< 1252710325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, enough to be lightweight!
< 1252710325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I dismissed Sumatra because of that
< 1252710327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks really good
< 1252710329 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Sumatra is pretty much the most lightweight one you'll find.
< 1252710330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a perfectly accurate time designation!
< 1252710334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try it out
< 1252710343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sumatra the island?
< 1252710346 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It renders slowly, though. That's my only other gripe.
< 1252710351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/index.html
< 1252710356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: What sort of machine?
< 1252710356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with kpdf?
< 1252710360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Windows.
< 1252710363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're being intentionally obtuse.
< 1252710366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, KDE runs on cygwin
< 1252710377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least parts to
< 1252710378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and so does stabbing my eyes out with a fork.
< 1252710380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do*
< 1252710387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep, fork() is there
< 1252710388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1252710391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want something that uses Windows, not X11 with Qt, you know?
< 1252710394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implementation is pretty eye-stabbing
< 1252710401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read fork(), yes.
< 1252710404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sane enough.
< 1252710406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs more COW.
< 1252710422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish more stuff would be 64-bit
< 1252710453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, again... I can only recommend linu
< 1252710455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux*
< 1252710471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything except zsnes is 64-bit on this system
< 1252710486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also shut up
< 1252710505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was "wish", not "this is absolutely vital".
< 1252710507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I see no good reason to do so
< 1252710525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well if you want to be a dick, sure, there's no reason to
< 1252710628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: What machine is Sumatra slow on?
< 1252710644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see it loading, sure, but it takes like <0.1s
< 1252710700 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not slow to load, but when scrolling through a document the pages show up as "rendering page..." for quite a while sometimes
< 1252710718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid@dragon /sys/devices/platform/smapi/BAT0 $ cat manufacture_date
< 1252710718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-07-13
< 1252710718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid@dragon /sys/devices/platform/smapi/BAT0 $ cat first_use_date
< 1252710718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-07-25
< 1252710719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252710734 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a Q9450 with 4GB of RAM.)
< 1252710736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... interesting
< 1252710761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: hrm
< 1252710782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like how Sumatra can't resize the window to fit the page width automatically
< 1252710793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write a decent PDF reader.
< 1252710818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I want li-poly battery for thinkpad. that would be cool
< 1252710819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be one of those fields that attracts custom interfaces, bloat and sucking.
< 1252710832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I want a flat battery for ThinkPads, like Apple has.
< 1252710841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 hours on a small, non-poking-out-or-raising battery? Fuck yeah!
< 1252710846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly patented, though.
< 1252710849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're really tooting that horn.
< 1252710850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raising?
< 1252710854 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252710861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The 6-cell battery, e.g., raises the back of the ThinkPad up.
< 1252710867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to the 4-cell, which keeps it flat.
< 1252710873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1252710877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the 9 cell ones raises too?
< 1252710879 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it seems to be rendering very quickly now that I try it again, maybe it was specific to some of the PDFs I tried.
< 1252710882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pokes out.
< 1252710890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, mine is flat
< 1252710896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. You think it is.
< 1252710901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually raised slightly at the back.
< 1252710904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the point is, the Apple binaries are regular-sized and lightweight, and the smallest one, in a 13" notebook just over 2kg, gets 7 hours.
< 1252710913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I took the battery out recently and noticed no difference
< 1252710914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The 17" one, which is just shy of 3kg, gets 8.)
< 1252710978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the things that make the thinkpad stand up from the surface in any case (the rubber thingies) are higher, just looked under it...
< 1252710979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There must be a good library for rendering PDFs, and I guess the Netscape plugin API is quite simple, so the only problem I'll have will be, oh god, the Windows GUI API thingy.
< 1252710996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's some fancy C# thing that makes it look like Cthulhu with makeup instead of two Cthulhus.
< 1252711003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is a good library, poppler iirc
< 1252711017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's its typography? Uses the system?
< 1252711020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* app-text/poppler
< 1252711020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Available versions: 0.8.7 0.10.4 ~0.10.5 0.10.5-r1 {cjk doc jpeg zlib}
< 1252711020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Homepage: http://poppler.freedesktop.org/
< 1252711020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Description: PDF rendering library based on the xpdf-3.0 code base
< 1252711027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on xpdf, it seems
< 1252711034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as I just said
< 1252711045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it works good for me
< 1252711046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate xpdf for one reason -
< 1252711049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These security features let an author disallow printing, copying text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.]]
< 1252711053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It respects those batshit fascist features
< 1252711056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is possible to turn off
< 1252711056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"features"
< 1252711060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't care, it's evil
< 1252711072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since kpdf uses poppler, and kpdf defaults to not respecting it...
< 1252711073 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sumatra uses mupdf, which IIRC looked fairly simple
< 1252711087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I *would* like something more instant, though.
< 1252711092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/screen1.png ;; xpdf's typography appears to be lacking.
< 1252711131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't like how Sumatra can't resize the window to fit the page width automatically Maybe I should write a decent PDF reader. It seems to be one of those fields that attracts custom interfaces, bloat and sucking. <-- sounds like your one would "more bloated" than this sumatra then ;P
< 1252711157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's a super old version I thin
< 1252711161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think*
< 1252711174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, kpdf looks better, and it uses poppler
< 1252711203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, then.
< 1252711206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that screenshot is from the xpdf site :P
< 1252711221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But poppler presumably uses freetype, not Windowswhatevertype.
< 1252711241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ccxvii.net/mupdf/ Hey, MuPDF has a Windows viewer and Firefox plugin.
< 1252711243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting.
< 1252711266 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/sumatrapdf/source/browse/trunk/src/SumatraPDF.cpp have fun
< 1252711271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 217?
< 1252711296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ghostscript logo? hm
< 1252711337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Artifex software.
< 1252711339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make ghostscript.
< 1252711355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, at least.
< 1252711386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mupdf.exe has no UI except for keyboard controls to go forward/back, which is unacceptable, it seems.
< 1252711399 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's slightly minimalistic :D
< 1252711402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The others are command-line tools.
< 1252711403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well.
< 1252711431 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's better than one postscript reader I found, which would only let me go forward and not backward.
< 1252711437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: you do windows-type gui programming thingy don't you?
< 1252711440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall something along those linse
< 1252711442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lines
< 1252711454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh iirc xpdf doesn't use freetype. At least xpdf looks worse than kpdf here
< 1252711463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc xpdf doesn't use poppler
< 1252711463 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though preferably not dealing directly with the windows API.
< 1252711513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: poppler is based on xpdf.
< 1252711518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: How then?
< 1252711524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.NET Windows Forms stuff?
< 1252711525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes... *based* on
< 1252711531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some differences
< 1252711535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1252711561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1252711563 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's one way. (It's bad, and lets windows API faults leak in, but it's still preferable)
< 1252711571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I doubt poppler has pluggable text rendering.
< 1252711580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: What else, then?
< 1252711602 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used much else that's good.
< 1252711613 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's WTL, which may or may not be good.
< 1252711631 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's XUL, which has the problem of XPCOM and gecko and stuff.
< 1252711642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XUL is horrifically bad.
< 1252711645 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's WPF, which is enterprisey and has really bad font rendering.
< 1252711672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso?
< 1252711677 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not aware of many more that can give a native feel.
< 1252711698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does WPF have bad font rendering?
< 1252711741 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It doesn't do antialiasing properly, IMO. You end up with "fuzzy" fonts (more so than normal cleartype, which I find perfectly readable.)
< 1252711743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_PostScript <-- cool
< 1252711754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you don't know about dps?
< 1252711763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. I do *now*
< 1252711765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: http://www.devcomponents.com/dotnetbar-wpf/img/WpfDockRibbonPad.png looks like it has no subpixel
< 1252711776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it does
< 1252711778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't before however
< 1252711780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just fuzzy
< 1252711789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Cleartype is kind of crap, btw
< 1252711798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I've got used to it; maybe 7 improved it.
< 1252711847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if any of the PDF libraries can keep the graphics sized-down, but make the text bigger
< 1252711858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be nice for reading PDFs without a hueg-liek-xbox window.
< 1252711867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hueg-liek-xbox <--?
< 1252711872 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, I think it can't use cleartype because it's not drawing aligned to the pixel grid, it's drawing at subpixel locations...
< 1252711912 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly cleartype was improved in 7 to support vertical antialiasing as well as horizontal, but I think that's more of a CJK thing.
< 1252712349 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252712556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night really
< 1252713092 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252713122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huge like xbox.
< 1252713185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt vertical thing: yeah, i made this display portrait :-)
< 1252713188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second
< 1252713200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't rotate it though, and putting it on its side might damage the components
< 1252713217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, the font rendering in http://www.devcomponents.com/dotnetbar-wpf/img/WpfDockRibbonPad.png looks better than cleartype to me
< 1252713238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll go with Windows Forms, unless Qt is native on Windows these days.
< 1252713240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or WTL.
< 1252713330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Be Part of Windows History, Host a Windows® 7 Launch Party."
< 1252713348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: Explicitly not attending one of these parties increases your attractiveness quotient by 75.
< 1252713453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poppler is just PDF, which is a shame. I could do like Preview and automatically convert PostScript and DVI files to PDF beforehand, though.
< 1252713463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it could do my scale-up-only-text thing.
< 1252713761 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252713765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/09/10/yeah-ok-so-facebook-punkd-us/ ;; from reddit. TechCrunch? Inaccurate? Naive? ZomGNEVar!!!1
< 1252713835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, uninstalling Sumatra doesn't remove its start menu icons
< 1252714458 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252714781 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@67.228.37.42 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252714835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is continually surprised that people actually install drivers that come with a piece of hardware
< 1252715101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hate the windows-tab switcher thing
< 1252715111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just different enough from Expose to (a) not be a ripoff, (b) be useless
< 1252715235 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing"
< 1252715310 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252715340 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252715428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, 801.11n is approved
< 1252715434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1252715434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kick-ass
< 1252715444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: identical to recent drafts?
< 1252715449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do we need yet more hardware
< 1252715454 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know
< 1252715456 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read /.
< 1252715459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay
< 1252715467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it's close enough to recent drafts
< 1252715473 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my new computer has a draft-n chip
< 1252715502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: does it really matter though
< 1252715503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252715508 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*802.11n
< 1252715508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one before that is fast enough
< 1252715522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, there's been draft-n hardware since, like, mid 2008
< 1252715524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you should be fine
< 1252715535 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: probably not. But as far as drafts go, they usually don't change in the last few steps of standardization
< 1252715549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe clarifications, but no major feature changes
< 1252715553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252715623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.oldskool.org/pc/8088_Corruption ;; Full-speed video on an original PC
< 1252715687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including sound
< 1252715690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and full CGA
< 1252715812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's it, I'm writing my own PDF reader
< 1252716166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"First Sumatra was based on Xpdf (v<0.2), then Poppler as backend but it changed to MuPDF because of better support for the Windows platform."
< 1252716171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't be using poppler then
< 1252716885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reconsiders his position on Foxit
< 1252716887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can hide the ad
< 1252716904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the menu, at least, turns normal, although the menus therein don't
< 1252717002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still not perfect, so nyah :)
< 1252717058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc the latest version is still uber-bloated
< 1252717060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can use 2
< 1252717126 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252717177 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252717268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wtf, foxit uses its own open dialog
< 1252717272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252717274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an old one
< 1252717276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disqualified!
< 1252717298 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's better than Kubuntu alpha
< 1252717306 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see OO.org's file dialog
< 1252717321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: linux file dialogs are pretty much unrescuable
< 1252717323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I filed a bug entitled "KDE FIle dialog utterly broken" - no one has disputed that claim
< 1252717332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows' are pretty damn good
< 1252717337 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, KDE's is pretty good
< 1252717342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, true
< 1252717342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the OO.org guys fail
< 1252717348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome's kinda sucks, though
< 1252717355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes the wrong approach to simplicity entirely
< 1252717358 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, whatever one thunderbird is using
< 1252717364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mozilla have their own
< 1252717367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make it use kde's
< 1252717367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type in the filename, halfway through it autocompletes it
< 1252717368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a plugin thing
< 1252717378 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without even having a dropdown or anything
< 1252717415 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, I download a file, need to open with kate. If I type "/usr/bin/kate", I end up with "/usr/sr/bin/in/katete"
< 1252717422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252717455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's clearly the program Katate, which is a non-base-system special resource, translated to indian
< 1252717509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever designed that should be shot
< 1252717521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that applies to most things
< 1252717535 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, most of them it's just locked up and left to die
< 1252717542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this file dialog is a shooting offence
< 1252717566 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, turn on your away flag, head in to #nomirc, and say you're away
< 1252717569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think slowly dying of thirst is more horrific than being shot
< 1252718305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, WJW @ http://code.google.com/p/sumatrapdf/source/browse/trunk/src/SumatraPDF.cpp
< 1252718308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever hearda files?
< 1252719103 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for instance, I download a file, need to open with kate. If I type "/usr/bin/kate", I end up with "/usr/sr/bin/in/katete"
< 1252719104 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH
< 1252719105 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1252719108 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so FEKKING ANNOYING
< 1252719124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's make a MOB
< 1252719137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LYNCH! LYNCH! LYNCH!
< 1252719149 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather just make a sob.
< 1252719152 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sobs*
< 1252719196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lynch a S.O.B.
< 1252719208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDGY
< 1252719397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hope there's a better way to make Windowsy GUIy things without using Visual Studio.
< 1252719583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the GUI code by hand?
< 1252719595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assemble the whole GUI in code?
< 1252719600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uh, I said "a better way".
< 1252719685 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252719869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :building GUIs in code isn't as hard as people make it out to be
< 1252719877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't hard
< 1252719878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just bad
< 1252719894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's obfuscatory, it doesn't help you design UIs (you have to design them in your head then write it as code), ...
< 1252719917 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252720019 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252720024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252720041 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252720058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252720103 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252720114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1252720433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop"
< 1252721492 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it"
< 1252723098 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1252724879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252724880 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252725318 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252725321 0 :Sgeo__!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252726699 0 :ehird!i=5b696218@gateway/web/freenode/x-xuaoqnccbvktoobf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252726703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CMake Error at cmake/modules/CfungeRequireFunction.cmake:35 (message): Your system seems to be missing the function "getaddrinfo" which is required by cfunge.
< 1252726707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stumbling block numero uno!
< 1252726738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs himself an implementation of getaddrinfo
< 1252726918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fucking hell ./configure is slow on cygwin
< 1252726927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even slower than ccmake was at the start
< 1252726945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing I'm only using this POS to try cmake compilation
< 1252726945 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I assume you want to use CFunge while playing your game?
< 1252726955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: something like that :)
< 1252726971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to irritate AnMaster by providing him a few short patches to make it work perfectly on cygwin
< 1252726986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and watch him squirm as he tries to come up with excuses not to commit them!
< 1252727014 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that Cygwin is imperfect?
< 1252727026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :process spawning on windows is dog slow. no way around that.
< 1252727033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But cygwin is fitting a square peg into a round hole badly.
< 1252727058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to switch to MinGW+Xming, paired with MSYS.
< 1252727075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just MinGW+GnuWin32, but that doesn't include a shell afaik.
< 1252727089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I want is the basic unix tools and a nice shell + terminal, that's all.
< 1252727610 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252727755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have cfunge configuration page!
< 1252727759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tweaks linker options to link with the impl
< 1252727831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's compiling!
< 1252727838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a shitload of warnings for every file.
< 1252727843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including a bunch of visibility ones.
< 1252727857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /home/Elliott/cfunge-0.9.0/src/funge-space/funge-space.c:50:4: error: #error "cfunge needs a working mmap(), which this system claims it lacks."
< 1252727868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit
< 1252727873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin's mmap works
< 1252727875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's patch that out
< 1252727904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "working" = OMG POSIX DECLARATION YAAAAY
< 1252727942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /home/Elliott/cfunge-0.9.0/src/fingerprints/REXP/REXP.c:31:4: error: #error "cfunge needs POSIX regular expressions, which this system claims it doesn't have."
< 1252727959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-|
< 1252727961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you irritate me.
< 1252728031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /home/Elliott/cfunge-0.9.0/src/fingerprints/TURT/TURT.c:223: error: 'M_PI' undeclared (first use in this function)
< 1252728036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /home/Elliott/cfunge-0.9.0/src/fingerprints/TURT/TURT.c:228: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function 'round'
< 1252728096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yo, M_PI is non-standard.
< 1252728136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that compile went very well, only a few linker errors
< 1252728157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOCK and SCKE both define ___ntohl and ___ntohs apparently
< 1252728161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "static" isn't supported on cygwin
< 1252728209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, from getaddrinfo, presumably
< 1252728231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe
< 1252728274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's from winsock
< 1252728317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION replaces _Exit with exit
< 1252728321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no, just _exit
< 1252728340 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just compile to LLVM :P
< 1252728358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh, no, that won't work
< 1252728363 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(neat fact: one of the examples LLVM comes with is a brainfuck interpreter)
< 1252728364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM doesn't provide posix libraries.
< 1252728383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SOCK/SOCK.c.o:SOCK.c:(.text+0x0): multiple definition of `___ntohl' CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0x0): first defined here CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SOCK/SOCK.c.o:SOCK.c:(.text+0x10): multiple definition of `___ntohs' CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0x10): first defined here
< 1252728388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as I can fix those, I have a compilation
< 1252728413 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same file's getting compiled more than once?
< 1252728431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the damn error, it's that some header file defines those twice
< 1252728435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a winsock header, obviously
< 1252728456 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252728471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally I have no f'n clue how to fix that...
< 1252728485 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it inline
< 1252728486 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252728488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing windows headers I can probably do #define WINSOCK_DO_NOT_DEFINE_NTOHL
< 1252728490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kludgy but it will work
< 1252728491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's in a system header file.
< 1252728495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252728500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know. winsock.
< 1252728513 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you're on Windows?
< 1252728529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously; I'm trying to compile cfunge with cygwin
< 1252728536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the lulz
< 1252728539 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252728557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it failed a lot at the start because cygwin doesn't pedantically claim to be posix-perfect by defining a name in a header file :)
< 1252728564 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would CFunge not work on cygwin?
< 1252728579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First of all, it's not CFunge, stop calling it that.
< 1252728595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second of all, AnMaster idk, his BFF unrealistic demand for POSIX compliance.
< 1252728633 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My demand for cross-platform workability was the cause of a major spec change in PSOX
< 1252728648 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although come to think of it, I never tested PSOX on Windows
< 1252728682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually planning on writing a fully-featured PDF reader for Windows, complete with browser plugin, so I guess I'm off the deep end into the Dark Side now.
< 1252728698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, fun fact: Going off an end to get to a side makes no sense whatsoever.
< 1252728780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: This is your new favourite subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/tipofmytongue/
< 1252728817 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I made a comment once or twice about wanting to find something that I forgot the name of?
< 1252728832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also posted to reddit about it with cringeworthy audio!
< 1252728845 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually post it to reddit
< 1252728853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you did
< 1252728863 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I posted about something else to reddit
< 1252728889 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one of these has cringeworthy audio? http://www.reddit.com/user/Sgeo/submitted/
< 1252728915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually care enough to look...
< 1252728967 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I only ever make cringeworthy stuff?
< 1252729003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inherentness. :D
< 1252729035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you haven't noticed, I'm kind of a dick. True story.
< 1252729119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts all the socket includes in the global cfunge header file, says "fuck it"
< 1252729201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think "static" isn't working because of an old version of something.
< 1252729211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: s/static/inline/ :D
< 1252729242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, that would do it
< 1252729248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, PE just doesn't do static
< 1252729255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: except like 90% of cfunge things are static
< 1252729264 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: #define static inline ;)
< 1252729276 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's a terrible idea. Don't do that. Seriously)
< 1252729291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[04:20] coppro: s/static/inline/ :D
< 1252729295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of pre-empted you there...
< 1252729303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA
< 1252729306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by putting it in the global header
< 1252729310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now ALL of the objects conflict
< 1252729316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear
< 1252729357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252729362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to declare a function inline after the fact?
< 1252729402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252729404 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, why would declaring functions inline affect anything other than efficiency?
< 1252729412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: it affects the ODR
< 1252729418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the QXB
< 1252729425 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the TLA
< 1252729458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ODR = One Definition Rule
< 1252729460 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..why would anything try to define a function more than once?
< 1252729473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: you are supid. sop alking
< 1252729478 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252729483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that i've re-attached my t key, hi
< 1252729487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is unfamiliar with C-like languages
< 1252729496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah shush you :P
< 1252729504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bashing sgeo is my national sport.
< 1252729507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: #include is a text replacement operation, so if a function is defined in a header, it will be defined in every TU to #include it
< 1252729507 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namespace/scope issues?
< 1252729523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you're intentionally using acronyms to confuse him, aren't you :P
< 1252729523 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why would a function be defined in a header?
< 1252729550 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would it work in a real POSIX environment but not cygwin?
< 1252729552 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: for whatever reason
< 1252729558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin isn't perfect
< 1252729560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and windows isn't perfect
< 1252729566 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's using Winsock
< 1252729571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252729572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's
< 1252729573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows' PE executable format has no visibility stuff
< 1252729576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore cygwin can't do visibility
< 1252729581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore "static" can go fuck itself
< 1252729582 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH that would do it
< 1252729591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably microsoft's compiler does something special for static
< 1252729594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gcc on cygwin doesn't
< 1252729613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252729635 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see why functions were defined in headers
< 1252729673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've got a truly terrible idea
< 1252729682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this particular function is defined in a header written in assembly
< 1252729682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems
< 1252729684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1252729688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm scared
< 1252729699 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: compile Winelib's Winsock in Cygwin
< 1252729708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK
< 1252729708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT
< 1252729709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIT
< 1252729719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it probably does the same thing)
< 1252729720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I warned you
< 1252729728 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is Randall Munroe in disguise!
< 1252729736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK
< 1252729737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT
< 1252729737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIT
< 1252729739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO
< 1252729760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNTO
< 1252729763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BATS
< 1252729766 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: alternate solution: how many source files actually include winsock?
< 1252729767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAGE
< 1252729767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINS
< 1252729775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Two.
< 1252729783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOCK, and SCKE. Two competing fingerprints.
< 1252729791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They cannot be combined.
< 1252729792 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pick the one that uses WinSock less and declare the functions yourself
< 1252729799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than #including
< 1252729803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have to define structures and stuff too.
< 1252729810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I could just, you know, kill myself instead.
< 1252729912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Maybe I should just disable whichever one fungot doesn't use.
< 1252729913 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i did sort-of guess that it would have been a different feature, like first-class continuations. for closures all you need for a portable device with a non-gpl firmware? they shouldn't care about that
< 1252729928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think C has first-class continuations, fizzie.
< 1252729943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, closures have nothing to do with proprietary portable devices. Indeed they should not care about such things.
< 1252729948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fungot
< 1252729949 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mit.edu knows the right info! :) how long does it take to build a derived structure in another module
< 1252729949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fizzie
< 1252729958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1252729958 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot
< 1252729963 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C should totally support first-class continuations :D
< 1252729975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cleaned up some code that did that once.
< 1252729980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And e.g. Elk Scheme does it.
< 1252729986 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it does have longjump *shudder*
< 1252729991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It involves that.
< 1252730014 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is glad longjmp in C++ is basically defined as "go fuck yourself"
< 1252730027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You find the base of the stack at the start of the program, then copy from the top of the stack to there. Then you setjmp, and make a (setjmp thingy,stack) tuple type.
< 1252730036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To resume, copy the stack back and longjmp.
< 1252730040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila! Is like a magic!
< 1252730118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you make a cactus stack
< 1252730126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old
< 1252730135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh.
< 1252730138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you just copy the stack.
< 1252730139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To an array.
< 1252730150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... not hard.
< 1252730152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252730154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives you first-class continuations.
< 1252730156 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexciting then
< 1252730162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The C stack.
< 1252730165 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know
< 1252730165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works with any C code.
< 1252730177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said C should have first-class continuations; I say it's easy to code; you say it's boring. wut
< 1252730189 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cactus stacks are more fun!
< 1252730208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying a block of memory turns out to be fast, and so are setjmp/longjmp
< 1252730209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is fine
< 1252730232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not the nop it is in e.g. continuation-passing style
< 1252730290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longjmp is an awful hack. Though, that's not *much* of an argument against it. After all, awful hacks are the C way.
< 1252730302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setjmp is just saving a bunch of registers and a pointer to the stack
< 1252730311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot one step in the make-continuation part
< 1252730318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still an awful hack.
< 1252730320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1252730323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the resume part
< 1252730336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you set the setjmp-struct's stack pointer to point to your newly-restored stack
< 1252730338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1252730341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it doesn't work
< 1252730341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1252730342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it just be easier to make a function that has no local state call setjmp, thus making a proper continuation easier?
< 1252730352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't a continuation
< 1252730358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setjmp fails as soon as you fall below the frame that called it
< 1252730365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that is totally irrelevant
< 1252730368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has nothing to do with that at all
< 1252730452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, fungot uses both SOCK and SCKE
< 1252730452 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they use python right now
< 1252730453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill me now
< 1252730456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: no they don't
< 1252730456 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: me is looking for something better to happen", or " a deep dark secret". even though it doesn't mean anything
< 1252730467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't search for things with no meaning, fungot :P
< 1252730481 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird
< 1252730486 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to run your own fungot?
< 1252730486 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i trust them.)" fnord)
< 1252730496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, but running fungot on windows would be fun
< 1252730497 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: key words: " in the right hands) to the channel is active, and which i thought replaced it
< 1252730507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1252730511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea htf to fix this
< 1252730543 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you using winsock anyways?
< 1252730550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, because that's what cygwin's sockets are.
< 1252730555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? fail
< 1252730562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :winsock is BSD sockets, you know.
< 1252730569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, winsock is at least close to normal sockets.
< 1252730572 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically cygwin can't compile sockets
< 1252730576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252730576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound right
< 1252730583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different header was the main difference, right?
< 1252730584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: winsock's API = berkely sockets API
< 1252730592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know
< 1252730594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**berkely sockets'
< 1252730604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: winsock lets you use the BSD header names
< 1252730606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works
< 1252730606 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cygwin should be able to compile sockets
< 1252730613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what the fuck does that mean?
< 1252730615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can compile socket code
< 1252730619 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it clearly can't
< 1252730620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh.
< 1252730623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it isn't working
< 1252730624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no
< 1252730625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen
< 1252730629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS gcc
< 1252730633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then, winsock is nothing more than an implementation of BSD sockets.
< 1252730634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is gcc 4
< 1252730636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why
< 1252730639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought cfunge needed it
< 1252730644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1252730644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look
< 1252730645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1252730646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which GCC can?
< 1252730649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works for other people
< 1252730651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1252730652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all
< 1252730658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cygwin sockets work fine for most people
< 1252730662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: winsock is based on BSD sockets.
< 1252730666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the actual code.
< 1252730699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: In the same way that BSD is an implementation of UNIX. That it's a fork doesn't change that.
< 1252730715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252730717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin has socket headers
< 1252730718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems
< 1252730721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it then includes winsock.h itself
< 1252730731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, you're right. I had temporarily forgotten that Windows devs just took BSD sockets and ported it.
< 1252730732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i was wrong in saying you can use the old header names with winsock
< 1252730734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cygwin donig that
< 1252730775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*doing
< 1252730795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dhdghdfh
< 1252730797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh
< 1252730798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is irritating
< 1252731190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah fuck it
< 1252731196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll obviously work if i fix this, so point proven
< 1252731200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that point is
< 1252731204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to remove cygcrap from my disk
< 1252731365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all gone
< 1252731385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Mono supports the windows gui stuff
< 1252731790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: as a warning, you may get more flak from me for using C++ in the near future
< 1252731809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: says someone considering Mono
< 1252731869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm fairly sure that Windows Forms is less horrific than MFC, WTL or Win32, dood.
< 1252731889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'll likely go for stock .NET, it's just that that involves using Visual Studio and ew.
< 1252731892 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtkmm ftw (or ftl on Windows I guess)
< 1252731918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm kinda trying to write something native, small, low memory usage, fast, no dependencies...
< 1252731926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically the opposite of gtkmm.
< 1252731928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252731993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL?
< 1252732010 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or SFML in C++, which I know you hate)
< 1252732028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL is a graphics library, not a GUI library...
< 1252732043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you mean "make your own widgets", in which case please give me your address so that I may stab you.
< 1252732054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I *did* say "native" and all...)
< 1252732078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you want native widgets
< 1252732086 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yeah, winforms is probably the way to go :/
< 1252732094 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mono has winforms support
< 1252732104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, coppro; I want to make a PDF viewer with blinking SDL widgets. :P
< 1252732116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's just like every game menu ever!"
< 1252732133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yeah; I'm either going for winforms or WTL.
< 1252732145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Mono/WinForms has a GUI designer thingy.
< 1252732231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, creepy thing of the yesterday: Windows detected that I was using an all-in-one computer in the hardware control panel thing.
< 1252732276 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: according to mono's page, SharpDevelop does
< 1252732335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/TeaserSharpDevelop2OnVista.png Well, it doesn't look *awful*...
< 1252732348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wary because foss stuff is usually crap on windows.
< 1252732395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SharpDevelop looks like I'd be able to do it on .NET without using Visual Studio, which is nice.
< 1252732409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if .NET can interact with MinGW-compiled code alright.
< 1252732421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to compile whatever PDF library i use with MinGW then link it into the final .NET binary...
< 1252732431 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue
< 1252732451 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Mono can bridge into nonmanaged code yet
< 1252732452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it can import dlls fine, the only question is if you can do that with... non-dlls.
< 1252732456 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not very well
< 1252732487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, Mono's out if I can use .NET without VS.
< 1252732522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/SharpDevelop.png not that sharpdevelop looks any better
< 1252732536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if these IDE guys ever just look at one of their screenshots.
< 1252732548 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, you can
< 1252732560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert qualifier "comfortably".
< 1252732618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION , wanting to use the Microsoft WinForms site thing, installs Silverlight, sighs
< 1252732820 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252732999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, fuck that
< 1252733008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs mingw
< 1252733011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I'll be using mingw
< 1252733508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WoW... and at 7680x3200 res, maxed settings and 80FPS, there's hardly a more appropriate description to AMD's DX11 card..."
< 1252733512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agl...flr...
< 1252733518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upu...tumaoertjiojgioerjgodfisgjdfgoigosifjg
< 1252733526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ashaiuwhuwihaiuhwhatTHEFUCKINGHELL
< 1252733529 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codansfods
< 1252733529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some mega gpu
< 1252733532 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :askdjlf lsakdg;ah;ah;we; a;djls
< 1252733537 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO NEEDS THAT
< 1252733545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUDE
< 1252733547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARALLEL COMPUTING
< 1252733553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPENCL
< 1252733561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM PRACTICALLY COMPUTING AS I STAND HERE THINKING ABOUT IT
< 1252733565 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252733574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/ATI/Eyefinity/eyefinity.jpg holy wow on a stick
< 1252733594 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like really
< 1252733607 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that big bar in the middle makes it all pointless
< 1252733614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN FACT,
< 1252733627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all just seems to work, which is arguably the most impressive part of it all. AMD has partnered up with at least one display manufacturer to sell displays with thinner bezels and without distracting LEDs on the front:
< 1252733647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/ATI/Eyefinity/eyefinity2.jpg ;; what it'll look like
< 1252733666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad, but STILL THERE's A FREAKING BAR IN THE MIDDLE OF MY SCREEN
< 1252733667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I played Dirt 2, a DX11 title at 7680 x 3200 and saw definitely playable frame rates. I played Left 4 Dead and the experience was much better. Obviously this new GPU is powerful, although I wouldn't expect it to run everything at super high frame rates at 7680 x 3200."
< 1252733681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get 20fps on top settings on crysis at 1024x768, I bet!
< 1252733688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sure :P
< 1252733691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a tiling wm
< 1252733694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one window per screen
< 1252733724 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the mouse movement L(
< 1252733725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1252733735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiling wm
< 1252733738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := you wouldn't be using a mouse
< 1252733740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time
< 1252733778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, it's good as long as your windows don't overlap screens
< 1252733785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... very GPU intensive spreadsheets
< 1252733802 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, you could do a 6-screen display, but really?
< 1252733807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1252733808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact,
< 1252733832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://files.myopera.com/wiz/albums/781632/wiz-desktop1.jpg
< 1252733838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the silentpcreview forums
< 1252733852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that huge slab of metal on wheels to the right is a TNN-500AF
< 1252733863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a totally heatpipe, no-moving-parts CPU case/psu/etc
< 1252733891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy uses it (it costs >$1,000 just for the case) + an SSD (= 0 moving parts computer) + 6 fucking monitors
< 1252734094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: holy fuck
< 1252734096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine multiple projectors
< 1252734097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit
< 1252734110 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O
< 1252734114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want six fucking projectors and a circular room
< 1252734120 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be epic
< 1252734128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epicly expensive!
< 1252734135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can Xorg handle circular displays?
< 1252734145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252734153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just position the projectors right
< 1252734163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the room won't be tiny, so it'll look fine at any given position
< 1252734172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I mean can xorg handle a screen that you can wrap your mouse all the way round on
< 1252734176 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*display
< 1252734182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252734187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be trivial
< 1252734193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add a hot thing to the left and right edges
< 1252734196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to warp to the other edge
< 1252734213 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you couldn't stretch windows over, etc.
< 1252734217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xinerama
< 1252734223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see what you mean
< 1252734223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1252734225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be codable
< 1252734235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could six projectors cover a decent-sized circular room, btw?
< 1252734279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so
< 1252734289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, imagine a 3d game designed for one of them
< 1252734295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to swerve the mouse to look behind you
< 1252734296 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic win :)
< 1252734298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just... look behind you
< 1252734314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man
< 1252734318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just had an idea
< 1252734319 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a swivel chair hooked into the system
< 1252734320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is a good idea
< 1252734332 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you turn left, you /actually turn left/
< 1252734332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: actually, a chair thing that straps you in and can go 360 degrees in any dimension
< 1252734338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can rotate in any way
< 1252734339 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252734340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1252734345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little button things at the left and right sidse
< 1252734353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that when your hand or foot hits one
< 1252734358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a motor to rotate that way
< 1252734363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on the pressure you apply
< 1252734382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount a keyboard and mouse on it
< 1252734394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, add in a full surround sound setup
< 1252734422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be awesome, but would you use a spherical screen?
< 1252734429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :projectors
< 1252734430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember
< 1252734435 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, spherical?
< 1252734440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see
< 1252734446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the world isn't spherical, so that would be useless
< 1252734449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1252734451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you go outside
< 1252734465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a circular room would be fine if it curved into the ceiling and floor
< 1252734470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the sky and ground are... basically flat.
< 1252734472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably you mount the projectors on the outer ring of the frame?
< 1252734484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere on the ceiling, yeah
< 1252734491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with the surround sound speakers
< 1252734495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, presumably, the hardware
< 1252734502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I meant the frame that the chair is mounted to
< 1252734506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252734506 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, speakers in the walls
< 1252734509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252734511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252734512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't rotate that way
< 1252734513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without lag
< 1252734515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the mounting to chair)
< 1252734527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount to the ceiling
< 1252734533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can look normally
< 1252734536 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the chair has to have one fixed mount
< 1252734544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two gimbals
< 1252734545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1252734547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain
< 1252734551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, speakers in the walls will be bad quality, the wall will muffle them
< 1252734553 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get 360 degree rotation
< 1252734564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are speakers designed to use the surface as the wall to amplify the sound
< 1252734570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1252734576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, ceiling and floor vision is kinda useless
< 1252734581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope
< 1252734585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, okay, the floor makes it more immersive
< 1252734589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who looks up at the sky in a game?
< 1252734592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it blue-ish
< 1252734600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1252734600 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mount the projectors on the fixed frame
< 1252734608 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they are in the middle of the room
< 1252734613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252734614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright
< 1252734616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1252734620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chair doesn't really need 360 degree motion
< 1252734624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252734624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just needs to be strap-in
< 1252734633 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think just rotation would be fine
< 1252734634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an actual chair would just be awkward with all of this
< 1252734639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: by strap-in, you'd be vertical, ofc
< 1252734651 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oic
< 1252734664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, lol, were you imagining doing a loop while sitting down
< 1252734670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FUCK. YOU. GRAVITY!"
< 1252734676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm going to sit upside down!"
< 1252734686 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: with force-feedback points attached all over the body :D
< 1252734693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that may be going too far :P
< 1252734699 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, not all over
< 1252734702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, it's more awesome vertical as it means you can make the enemies real size
< 1252734702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252734708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about when the enemy gets right next to you
< 1252734709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252734711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd appear meters away
< 1252734711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like, on the arms and legs
< 1252734717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: WE ARE NOT DOING 3D HOLOGRAMS)
< 1252734717 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 3d glasses obv
< 1252734730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no,
< 1252734730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? easy enough
< 1252734737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: 3d glasses make you lose colour
< 1252734742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's gray and washed out
< 1252734744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, red/blue ones
< 1252734750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shutter ones give you a headache, no?
< 1252734751 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not red-blue
< 1252734759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polarization imo
< 1252734759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what then
< 1252734767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used shutter ones, not a big deal imo
< 1252734781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difficulty arises because light reflected from a motion picture screen tends to lose a bit of its polarization. However, this problem is eliminated if a 'silver' or Aluminized screen is used. This means that a pair of aligned DLP projectors, some polarizing filters, a silver screen, and a computer with a dual-head graphics card can be used to form a relatively low-cost (under US$10 000 in 2003) system for displaying stereosco
< 1252734784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not immersive
< 1252734788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what's the disadvantage
< 1252734791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do polarizing ones blink too
< 1252734799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no
< 1252734805 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't notice the blink
< 1252734807 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a little while
< 1252734809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they retain full colour and brightness?
< 1252734826 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: probably not full brightness
< 1252734858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that can be dealt with easy
< 1252734864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, if an enemy's that close to you, you're fucked anyway :P
< 1252734880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make the screen wrap to the floor
< 1252734892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you see someone lying down, YOU ARE ABOUT TO DIE"
< 1252734919 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but imagine you have like rubber-like cables attached to your arms, and they can be made more or less stretchy depending on the current applied to them
< 1252734931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get variable resistance
< 1252734949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what does this projection set up have that's better than a bunch of small screens in a circle mounted almost to fit your head?
< 1252734951 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should patent this :P
< 1252734962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from being less immersive and not letting things get close enough
< 1252734976 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: more awesome?
< 1252734977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(think Data, but mounted so you can turn around)
< 1252734988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wtf, having a ring around your head that covers your whole vision is totally awesome :P
< 1252735002 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other people could watch?
< 1252735011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1252735015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except no
< 1252735017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd block your vision
< 1252735035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah
< 1252735078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the chair idea of this is definitely the most interesting part I thin
< 1252735079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1252735080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait we're stupid
< 1252735083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1252735089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rear projection
< 1252735115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that help
< 1252735116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it
< 1252735126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having to mount them?
< 1252735129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kinda minor
< 1252735136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, no
< 1252735145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get circular panels to rear project on
< 1252735146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: prevents the projectors from having to deal with objects in the room
< 1252735154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so make them.
< 1252735160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have an infinite budget, but it can't be used on research
< 1252735166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise we can make anything that's physically possible
< 1252735172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more fun to have that constraint
< 1252735183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1252735187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will always block your vision
< 1252735188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what
< 1252735192 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think rear-projection requires a special screen anyways
< 1252735225 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, but they won't block the projector's line of fire. People blocking vision = semi-realistic (not for objects at close distances, but it works for objects far away). Projector shadows = fail
< 1252735241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an enemy's coming at you at that angle...
< 1252735249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, 3d holograms are totally awesome
< 1252735252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's unrealistic, so it doesn't matter what happens then
< 1252735254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *impractical
< 1252735259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe the circular thing is cheating already
< 1252735264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't any games that let you look behind you like that
< 1252735271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unecessary too
< 1252735289 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we do 3d, we can make do with an easier geometry (hexagon)
< 1252735306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew ew ew
< 1252735309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reality isn't hexagonal
< 1252735311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fwiw
< 1252735311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.simprojects.nl/multi_projector.htm
< 1252735317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsurprisingly, it's to run a flight simulator
< 1252735330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every-fucking-thing that's about displays and is wildly excessive is about flight simulators
< 1252735343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not even fun!
< 1252735349 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can fake it with the 3d effect
< 1252735357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not seamless, lame
< 1252735360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use screens
< 1252735362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do hexagonal
< 1252735365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore BORING
< 1252735367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why isn't it seamless?
< 1252735373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because reality isn't circular
< 1252735391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: huh?
< 1252735405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1252735413 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reality isn't circular meaning...?
< 1252735433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine an fps
< 1252735439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a hexagonal room, it'd be boring
< 1252735443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, you can do hexagonal with displays
< 1252735446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's very boring
< 1252735458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at that size
< 1252735474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares
< 1252735477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexagonal is the suck
< 1252735657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.simprojects.nl/diy_motion_platform_iii.htm
< 1252735661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pitch, roll and raw computer setup
< 1252735663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy is insane
< 1252735668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw, where would the computer go?
< 1252735674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the cables run above the chair into the ceiling
< 1252735679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the computer's there
< 1252735686 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floor seems better imo
< 1252735694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but
< 1252735699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it
< 1252735703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that possibly work
< 1252735715 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers are on the next floor down
< 1252735730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, as opposed to the ceiling?
< 1252735741 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you are probably attaching stuff to the floor already
< 1252735754 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to anchor to the floor than the ceiling
< 1252735768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need an anchor
< 1252735780 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want motors to power anything you do
< 1252735798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the projector lenses (standard focal lengths would be too long), and the optics involved. With correct optics, you could have each projector only have a 23" image on a screen. Theoretically you could even project such an image onto a cylindrical or hemispherical surface like a personal IMAX assuming you had the correct lenses and such.
< 1252735799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-reddit
< 1252735805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://videoscreens.net/curved%20screens.htm
< 1252735808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-reddit
< 1252735842 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1252736359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1252736367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.NET can only interop with .dlls, I think
< 1252736500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then compile a DLL version of your... oh wait, DLLs require special code
< 1252736521 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252736731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, it's just that I want a single-file solution
< 1252736747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rather, reader + docs if any + plugin
< 1252736759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simplicity
< 1252736762 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252736763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably use WTL, then
< 1252736777 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way to combine the .NET and non-.NET code into one DLL?
< 1252736781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't be too much of a pain for a simple UI- oh, hm, I just realised something
< 1252736795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use WinForms easily anyway, because netscape plugins are C/C++
< 1252736808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I could call into the .NET gui from the plugin
< 1252736808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ew
< 1252736810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a pain
< 1252736815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that'd still be .dll + .exe
< 1252736820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll just use WTL or whatever
< 1252736844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the notepad2 source code
< 1252736847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be an inspiration
< 1252736858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I can't use stock MinGW, I think
< 1252736865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't do 64-bit binaries :(
< 1252736910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how difficult building an Okular plugin for firefox would be
< 1252736919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for firefox
< 1252736923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the netscape plugin api
< 1252736930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(firefox has no separate plugin mechanism)
< 1252736943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'll work with firefox, safari, chrome, ... I think Opera too
< 1252736968 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah
< 1252736991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I'm really just trying to make something as good as OS X's Preview standalone and Safari's PDF in the browser for Windows
< 1252737012 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood
< 1252737032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari's PDF is wonderfully simple; it's just the PDF, there, you can use Safari's regular zoom controls and the only UI is, if you hover near the bottom, a semi-transparent black HUD-type thing with a view outline icons fades in
< 1252737051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just two buttons for zoom in/zoom out, an "open in Preview" button, and a download button
< 1252737074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, nice
< 1252737096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole PDF is rendered instantly, all at once
< 1252737118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an awesome thing Snow Leopard added is, if a PDF is formatted into columns, it (presumably using a heuristic), when selecting, just uses that column
< 1252737121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to going over the others
< 1252737130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not sure if he prefers rendering the whole thing or not
< 1252737134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := you can finally copy from those &*^#$*&& two-column LaTeX papers
< 1252737142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: when it's instant, it's obviously better
< 1252737152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: instant entire document is not always an option
< 1252737161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try safari then tell me that :)
< 1252737170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on OS X)
< 1252737186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only ever slow when "converting" (executing) one of those silly computing postscript programs
< 1252737194 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'll believe it can do most documents pretty fast. I would be exceedingly surprised if it could render the C++0x draft standard in under a second
< 1252737202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link
< 1252737214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have to reboot, but I can give you a pretty good guess
< 1252737222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 2k+ pages
< 1252737243 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I'm exaggerating
< 1252737245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link
< 1252737246 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1300
< 1252737253 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2009/n2914.pdf
< 1252737278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, have you ever come across one of those .dvis converted to pdf?
< 1252737284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always with the uber-smudgy, uncopiable text
< 1252737328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: depends on the converter
< 1252737337 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that comes with Ubuntu's TeX does it right
< 1252737342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but have you come across one like that?
< 1252737348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially from ACM sites
< 1252737359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I estimate Safari would render that in about four-five seconds
< 1252737364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've come cross them
< 1252737368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a slow computer and it's a bad day, maybe 7-8, tops
< 1252737371 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst though are MS word ones
< 1252737374 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok
< 1252737375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it pops up a little discreet progress bar while rendering
< 1252737383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't think it's really a problem
< 1252737396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, I have an insane planned fix for that
< 1252737412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recognize lines and their thickness in it (sort of like what captcha-breaking software does)
< 1252737412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1252737420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :convert this to a vector image, except
< 1252737425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's just really minor variation in the thickness
< 1252737428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normalise it to one value
< 1252737435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then render it at any size
< 1252737441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila, smudgy text becomes scalable
< 1252737442 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with whole-document rendering is the memory a big document will take up
< 1252737454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much ram have you got?
< 1252737468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots, sure
< 1252737472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can be a problem
< 1252737485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many copies of the c++0x standard do you open a day?
< 1252737492 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: quite often, actually
< 1252737495 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252737497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many at once, I mean
< 1252737502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, one
< 1252737524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: c++0x, the file, is 9mb
< 1252737536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try and get sumatra to render it all
< 1252737555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sumatra?
< 1252737560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right ok
< 1252737566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lightweight windows pdf reader
< 1252737595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: groan @ the first page warning on c++0x
< 1252737654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sumatra, it seems, won't render it all at once
< 1252737678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, at the very maximum, say adobe reader 11.72 or something, I bet that c++0x fully rendered, plus all the application baggage, cannot possibly be more than 400MB
< 1252737687 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty big
< 1252737689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a lightweight reader, say 100MB
< 1252737710 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially for my system, with little real ram and too much swap
< 1252737714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you almost certainly have 2-4GB of ram, and it's a very unusually large document; is a hundred meg or two unacceptable?
< 1252737725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(new computer has more ram, yay)
< 1252737752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I just don't see a situation on any sort of modern computer where you must open C++0x all the time and yet never have 200MB of RAM free
< 1252737755 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, I'm not really trying to defend anything, so it's a pointless debate
< 1252737761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252737776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing you can do when rendering all at once is display pages as they render
< 1252737784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, a pdf always opens instantly when you click
< 1252737791 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but RAM is seriously the limiting factor of speed on this thing
< 1252737794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from download time, but again you can do it incrementally)
< 1252737800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: how much has it got? what computer is it?
< 1252737800 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i has a ram
< 1252737806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yes, 12gb of it
< 1252737807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANKS TO ME
< 1252737808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252737844 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's an old Dell latitude. I forget how much it actually has on sticks, but it's small enough that swapping kills performance when large amounts of ram are gobbled up
< 1252737858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, free -mh
< 1252737859 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted, a link is special because it needs access to all that RAM at once
< 1252737866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes two seconds to find out how much ram you have :P
< 1252737871 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1G
< 1252737876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow
< 1252737882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yepper
< 1252737898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had 1GB in here until december 08, actually
< 1252737902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5 is noticably snappier
< 1252737907 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new computer has 3
< 1252737912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: mistake
< 1252737914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have gone for 4
< 1252737920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo
< 1252737925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1252737928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 isn't much better than 2
< 1252737930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 4 is a lot better
< 1252737931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :price was a concern
< 1252737936 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why?
< 1252737939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 vs 4 is like $10
< 1252737942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: don't ask me
< 1252737956 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nope :(
< 1252737984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much
< 1252738016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget
< 1252738018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not cheap though
< 1252738034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the other big thing is a non-ATI graphics card
< 1252738045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing or bad thing
< 1252738046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1252738049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing
< 1252738052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wait
< 1252738053 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATI linux drivers = the stains
< 1252738058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you replacing an ATI card in your current machine
< 1252738062 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooooooooooooooooo
< 1252738062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an intel one in your new one?
< 1252738063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, new machine
< 1252738069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1252738075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your current machine has ATI
< 1252738076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct?
< 1252738080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252738081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your new machine has intel
< 1252738082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct?
< 1252738083 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252738086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: LOLOLOLOLOLOLO
< 1252738090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intel drivers for linux suck shit
< 1252738091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want a high-power card
< 1252738096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even do stuff full screen
< 1252738100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that xkcd about full screen flash wasn't a joke
< 1252738113 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit really? I thought... dammit
< 1252738123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1252738127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting better, but... you just downgraded as far as linux is concerned
< 1252738129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it a few months :\
< 1252738135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be much worse than ATI
< 1252738144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATI drivers are pretty good these days...
< 1252738147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1252738170 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish
< 1252738170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this because I have an ATI card in this machine and it's always worked absolutely perfectly and fast with linux. :P
< 1252738177 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this one has not
< 1252738183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, 'cuz it's old :P
< 1252738197 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSS driver hates me, and... well.. FGLRX
< 1252738204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about fglrx
< 1252738208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has always worked for me
< 1252738214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random crashes
< 1252738219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1252738221 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freezes, actually
< 1252738234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems that notepad2 is built with visual studio
< 1252738246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, visual c++ 7
< 1252738247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least
< 1252738254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably *coded* with notepad2
< 1252738256 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever I try to do anything more graphics-intensive than, say, glxgears
< 1252738272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your new intel card will solve that, nothing more intensive will run :-P
< 1252738279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252738281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm teasing, it isn't _that_ bad
< 1252738282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1252738291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in limbo atm
< 1252738295 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I suspect not
< 1252738304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although full screen youtube is still a no-no
< 1252738313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably a good thing for your IQ
< 1252738320 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1252738328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only stuff I use youtube for is music
< 1252738334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the discrete graphics versions cost more and you can't get base configurations (so they're higher apart from the card)
< 1252738336 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no need for full screen or even a screen at all
< 1252738343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus they're heavier, and have less battery life while on the card
< 1252738350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you probably made the right choice
< 1252738352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252738383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though hybrid graphics sound appealing (I somehow suspect Linux doesn't have support for that though)
< 1252738425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a T60p review that has the 14" model
< 1252738497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up :P
< 1252738510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the T43 is prettier than the T60, but I need my dual core :
< 1252738511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1252738520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, more than 2GB of RAM.
< 1252738564 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is t60
< 1252738581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what else I've discovered about Linux and bad drivers?
< 1252738590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux can't suspend to USB
< 1252738591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: thinkpad
< 1252738592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :model
< 1252738594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old one
< 1252738600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ...so? :P
< 1252738611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my current hard drive is USB
< 1252738619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus fucking christ
< 1252738623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the speed
< 1252738624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god
< 1252738631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must confiscate that laptop immediately
< 1252738634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are no longer allowed to use it
< 1252738668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh, the speed isn't much different
< 1252738675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is
< 1252738678 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not
< 1252738681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB has awful speed and awful latency
< 1252738686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the actual speed of operations
< 1252738687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the raw speed
< 1252738692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just because HDs are the bottleneck anyway
< 1252738701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's why my notebook will be blessed with an SSD!
< 1252738714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hopefully.
< 1252738717 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual speed of usb sucks
< 1252738723 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb2 is what, 60mb/s
< 1252738727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: "operations"
< 1252738728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1252738729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tasks
< 1252738729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing stuff
< 1252738731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the computer
< 1252738737 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, raw speed
< 1252738745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252738765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but latency is what matters
< 1252738781 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a temporary solution and it's not worth my pry apart this drive and put this on the internal mount
< 1252738787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't really notice a problem
< 1252738821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least every app you have is a portable app :P
< 1252738827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroot /media/usb
< 1252738843 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what my school would do if I booted off this
< 1252738851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on a school computer)
< 1252738865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freak at the error screen because you don't have the drivers
< 1252738889 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has them :)
< 1252738909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freak at the desktop and tell you to put it back
< 1252738924 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspension methinks
< 1252738947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some school you go to
< 1252739145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1252739150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bbl
< 1252739152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public school board (:
< 1252739153 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1252739641 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252739774 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252739830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is video game music so awesome?
< 1252740668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing"
< 1252741064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds
< 1252741373 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it"
< 1252741535 0 :ehird!i=5b696218@gateway/web/freenode/x-thuoqnczyhmjeuys JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252742290 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252742399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252742400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252743155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch. notepad2 is totally c apart from a c++ file to wrap scintilla
< 1252743158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way am i reading win32 code
< 1252743171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even seems it constructs the gui in code
< 1252743625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an argument for rendering pdfs all in one go: search is quicker
< 1252743761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I'm going to use MinGW, C/C++ and... something for the gui
< 1252744569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, not mingw
< 1252744583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.drangon.org/mingw/
< 1252744589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it has x64
< 1252744600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you know what, i don't give a shit about making an x64 binary
< 1252744603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fucking pdf reader
< 1252744655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh joy, you do not have c:/MinGW/bin/make.exe. Keep it that way." --MSYS postinstall
< 1252745993 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252746100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan .
< 1252746103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oerjan.
< 1252746116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird .
< 1252746200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Evil is a library that tries to implement for Windows some Unix function that do not exist on the evil Microsoft platform." // damn that's some mature naming scheme
< 1252747306 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252747500 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252747756 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252747804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252747822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252747843 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252747861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1252747964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, chatzilla seems acceptable like this
< 1252748270 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90353@gateway/web/freenode/x-kfevrbayydbsjjij JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252748309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal"
< 1252748315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop"
< 1252748488 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252748518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, if I can get messages highlighting me to not show up in the server tab I'll be perfectly happ
< 1252748521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1252748522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\ny/y/
< 1252748588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ehird
< 1252748589 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird ehird
< 1252748594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ehird
< 1252748594 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird ehird
< 1252748603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, that works
< 1252748721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chatzilla users: rheet
< 1252748724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interesting feature...
< 1252748821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop"
< 1252749150 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252749162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test ;)
< 1252749164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I disabled that earlier
< 1252749167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still only one thing to fix...
< 1252749194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, an easy preference change
< 1252749198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wundervoll
< 1252749204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252749232 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252749247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hullo
< 1252749280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tentatively tries Pidgin and sighs as he can't find a good damn Im client
< 1252749282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IM
< 1252749488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great, gtk menus on windows are... wait for it... non-native-behaving
< 1252749504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly
< 1252749522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this your first time using Windows or something? :-P
< 1252749531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens on OS X too
< 1252749537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just irritates me every single time
< 1252749543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I know someone spent hours on that
< 1252749548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they failed, terribly
< 1252749565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, the pidgin menus look like windows classic's
< 1252749569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the menu contents that is
< 1252749592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the menu looks like a regular win7 menu, except with more vertical padding and instead of an indent, the items get a blue background
< 1252749668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hide new IM conversations: [ Never | When Away | Always ]
< 1252749672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] Minimize new conversation windows"
< 1252749682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the flying fuck is the difference..........
< 1252749724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this, it's clear every pidgin developer uses windows 2000 or something
< 1252749731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is every pidgin developer that uses windows
< 1252749733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is -1
< 1252749818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this fuss and in the end the only extra programs I have so far are Microsoft Security Essentials, Google Chrome, Flash, Sumatra PDF, and ChatZilla
< 1252749825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because all the others suck.
< 1252749828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252749839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that's the nice thing about a platform nobody uses
< 1252749846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's far less software, and so far less sucking software
< 1252750268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you wouldn't happen to know of an unarchiver that doesn't try and be a file manager, would you?
< 1252750271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even 7zip does that crap
< 1252750319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it matter? You don't have to use it as a file manager
< 1252750413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's kind of annoying viewing files in Explorer one second and then using 7zip's crap file interface the next
< 1252750440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's really hard to hook into Explorer or something; seems like there'd be something like the built-in "compressed folders" for multiple formats.
< 1252750658 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use the shell extension and right-click -> extract here, or whatever
< 1252750672 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed"
< 1252750691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not actually anything like compressed folders; you can dig in them without extracting.
< 1252750716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know, but it saves you from the "crap file interface" at least.
< 1252750718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's marginally better than clicking extract in the 7zip file manager, but annoying because you can't view the contents without extracting.
< 1252750724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Snap
< 1252750727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of
< 1252750779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning
< 1252750800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see I was highlighted by ehird. Interesting.
< 1252750806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads scrollback
< 1252750810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How unusual!
< 1252750819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even remember what it was for; now I get to read it too!
< 1252750820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Exciting"
< 1252750842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: yo, M_PI is non-standard. <-- hm. Will have to check that.
< 1252750863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah.
< 1252750881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I got cfunge almost linking with Cygwin.
< 1252750895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop, it is in POSIX, just checked
< 1252750903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of XSI however
< 1252750909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it at least isn't in Cygwin
< 1252750920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed only a few changes to get it to compile but not link, btw.
< 1252750931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to get cfunge to work on Cygwin and IIRC didn't succeed.
< 1252750933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't remember why.
< 1252750941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linking problem was that PE has no visibility stuff, and so every "static" was ignored, which caused SCKE and SOCK to both have two functions from winsock stuff.
< 1252750956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about the winsock thing: I have no fucking clue either. All I use are some standard functions for converting between system-endianness and network-endianness
< 1252750967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those were what were both defined
< 1252750968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those htons ones I mean
< 1252750977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're defined in the header file, for some perverse reason
< 1252750982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how to fix that, the rest is pretty trivial though
< 1252750997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on glibc they are defined as inline asm if gcc is used iirc. :D
< 1252751008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise using functions
< 1252751011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a drop-in getaddrinfo implementation that you can just #include and link to, and you have to define M_PI
< 1252751014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's it
< 1252751017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but weren't they static inline?
< 1252751019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should solve it
< 1252751026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:22 Linking problem was that PE has no visibility stuff, and so every "static" was ignored, which caused SCKE and SOCK to both have two functions from winsock stuff.
< 1252751038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about environ?
< 1252751047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how it works on non-cygwin. I was using gcc 4, which I guess isn't very maintained on cygwin.
< 1252751051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin provides.
< 1252751056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah right
< 1252751065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, the ccmake was ludicrously slow; spawning processes really is expensive.
< 1252751073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aren't there already other duplicate name, different files stuff?
< 1252751073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it took about 7 seconds to get to 18%.
< 1252751081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like what?
< 1252751089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's better than autotools
< 1252751091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cmake here it takes like 5 seconds in total
< 1252751095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure --help is typically about 20 seconds
< 1252751105 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A complete ./configure, about 20 minutes.
< 1252751109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, I tried the ./configure included with the getaddrinfo; took like a minute to finish
< 1252751115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What do you mean about duplicate name?
< 1252751118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see
< 1252751119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1252751122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheer luck there
< 1252751132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I shall have to include that then ;P
< 1252751134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, it's slow because process spawning is slow on Windows.
< 1252751142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, configure is slow even on linux..., often a minute or so
< 1252751152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep
< 1252751160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I might write a patch or a few to get it working on Cygwin if I can be bothered and you'll commit them
< 1252751161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about _Exit vs. _exit
< 1252751167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I want to use cygwin or anything
< 1252751171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the former is C99, the latter is POSIX
< 1252751176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule of thumb: on Windows it's about 50-100 times slower than on Linux
< 1252751177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1252751179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, Cygwin doesn't have the former
< 1252751189 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a ./configure takes a minute on Linux, it'll take an hour on Windows.
< 1252751196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just telling you that _Exit is *in theory* more portable ;P
< 1252751201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably some sort of KillWithExtremePrejudiceExExEx.
< 1252751220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, think about ./configure for GCC, LLVM, Apache or some other huge project
< 1252751222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, would you commit said patches?
< 1252751248 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Just _exit.
< 1252751257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, that's what I replaced it with
< 1252751264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends, I'll have to review them, And the _Exit() vs. _exit() in general would make it less portable, I might however add a cmake test and fall back on the other or such
< 1252751269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I was talking about average-sized projects.
< 1252751278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course, I'd add cmake tests for everything
< 1252751289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about mmap()?
< 1252751293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd just be a few different lines of code, and some extra source files in lib/
< 1252751294 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those, you'll indeed have to ./configure for an hour.
< 1252751296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cygwin provides that, obviously
< 1252751296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, make sure it actually works for mycology
< 1252751303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will, once the damn thing links
< 1252751319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what would the stuff in lib be?
< 1252751322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just use CCBI, but it's more fun to subvert the "WINDOWS COULD NEVER POSSIBLY SUPPORT POSIX HARD ENOUGH"
< 1252751328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also tend to have sub-projects wherein make invokes configure and >_<
< 1252751338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The implementation of getaddrinfo, which Cygwin inexplicably doesn't have.
< 1252751350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's BSD-licensed or somesuch, so no worries linking the .o.
< 1252751359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252751372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much does cfunge fork()?
< 1252751392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much do you think if it's performance-optimized to the point of ludicrousness? :-P
< 1252751398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only in PERL fingerprint
< 1252751403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork()'s cheap on unix
< 1252751406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That should be fine then.
< 1252751413 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still relatively expensive
< 1252751415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I just want to say one thing about Cygwin.
< 1252751427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SETUP.EXE HAS THE WORST POSSIBLE PACKAGE MANAGING UI OUT OF ALL POSSIBLE UIS FOR THAT PURPOSE
< 1252751428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in PERL fingerprint it does weird stuff with pipes and file descriptors btw
< 1252751431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE MULTIVERSE
< 1252751435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you.
< 1252751445 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You exaggerate too much
< 1252751446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cygwin should handle it.
< 1252751449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it usable enough
< 1252751452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, seriously, that thing is fucking awful
< 1252751457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SETUP.EXE HAS THE WORST POSSIBLE PACKAGE MANAGING UI OUT OF ALL POSSIBLE UIS FOR THAT PURPOSE <-- so it is still as bad as back when I used it a few years ago then. heh
< 1252751466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "setup.exe -q -P pkg1,pkg2" should install stuff, but it doesn't
< 1252751474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a CLI?
< 1252751478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It'd also be nice if the programs were newer than 34573485735 years old
< 1252751479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know that
< 1252751488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know about the CLI either
< 1252751492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not officially, it's still experimental and we won't document it and if you use it we will kill you
< 1252751496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: The above sentiment was expressed on the mailing list
< 1252751498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in
< 1252751500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait for it
< 1252751502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003
< 1252751505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin is fucking dead
< 1252751520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly slow-going, yes
< 1252751531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not odd... windows + cygwin works worse than linux + wine
< 1252751544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the only other thing providing fork() and mmap() shit is MSYS, which is just a fork of an ancient cygwin and only supports gcc 2 or something to compile MSYS executables and is only aimed at using as a shell/utils.
< 1252751556 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1252751572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be quite easy to add fork() to the Windows kernel, wouldn't it?
< 1252751573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about Microsoft's own POSIX implementation thingy
< 1252751578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a process is just a structure in memory.
< 1252751582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Interix? That thing's ancient, innit?
< 1252751589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, innot.
< 1252751605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GCC 3.3 compiler, includes and libraries"
< 1252751609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is
< 1252751610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hey you aren't oerjan
< 1252751621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey no shit
< 1252751623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't a pun
< 1252751627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm, I only tested cfunge on gcc 3.4 and later
< 1252751634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? ok
< 1252751656 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252751676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just like to take the time to endorse some non-Cygwin software that I haven't used for anything yet but must be better than Cygwin because anything is: Xming, MinGW, GnuWin32 (http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/)
< 1252751699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternative to last one: MSYS (it's okay because you can't add packages or anything.)
< 1252751719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that DOS one?
< 1252751721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the name
< 1252751729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP. It doesn't do fork() or anything.
< 1252751735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, true
< 1252751736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's for DOS, and meh.
< 1252751737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use MinGW.
< 1252751753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get GCC 4.2 on Interix from http://debian-interix.net/
< 1252751756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MinGW doesn't provide fork()
< 1252751763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a sec
< 1252751772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian... interix?
< 1252751778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, MinGW doesn't provide any sort of POSIX API
< 1252751780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder*
< 1252751780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows does, though
< 1252751807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MinGW is just a compiler
< 1252751810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It happens to be gcc
< 1252751817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also free Windows headers
< 1252751818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what CFLAGS are you using?
< 1252751826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles Windows executables with the Windows libraries, which include libc and some POSIX stuff
< 1252751830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It includes headers for these libaries
< 1252751833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it
< 1252751837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The release ones
< 1252751844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll install cygwin again and try and make this crap work
< 1252751853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not.
< 1252751860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a separate gcc-4.2 from http://www.suacommunity.com/
< 1252751864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. Don't remember if that includes -O3. Try -O3, because possibly that will make gcc inline that htons() stuff, which will prevent those functions from being emitted at all
< 1252751869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will make it linjk
< 1252751870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically know what to do, but don't know how to fix the SCKE/SOCK problem.
< 1252751870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link*
< 1252751874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just a wild guess
< 1252751895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I could just #define static inline before including sockets :-P
< 1252751906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh so they are static but not inline?
< 1252751916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so
< 1252751921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm sure that would break stuff in cfunge.
< 1252751921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they go in the final .o
< 1252751923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously
< 1252751937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, becuase iirc SOCK and SCKE includes some static variables
< 1252751943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and inline variable makes no sense
< 1252751947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd #undef static afterwards, duh
< 1252751951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252751955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, we could totally make inline variables make sense.
< 1252751965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah by #define inline static :P
< 1252751980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are inlined at their first use, and assigning to them modifies the machine code in that function
< 1252751983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To have the different value
< 1252751998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're accessed from inside that function's machine code too
< 1252752033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could inline them at every use, and made assignment modify all the use locations.
< 1252752038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you would need to determine first use at runtime
< 1252752047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In source file
< 1252752052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, that's much better
< 1252752062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie++
< 1252752070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep, makes more sense
< 1252752079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads PuTTY, because it'll surely come in handy later.
< 1252752080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice to have "x=5" expand to 200 code self-modifications.
< 1252752093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: totally
< 1252752101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, that'd be great
< 1252752115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I assume this will be one diff for each separate fix, rather than some huge mixed up diff?
< 1252752139 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you assume incorrectly
< 1252752150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Does bzr work on Windows?
< 1252752155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252752161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so yes
< 1252752166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practically all VCSs do.
< 1252752167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just make bzr commits then
< 1252752175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey, it would even be useful in some cases, like when a variable is assigned very seldom, but read a lot
< 1252752192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like allocating a block depending on command line options or so
< 1252752194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because memory reads are so expensive :-P
< 1252752210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah, but you can save a few clock cycles on it
< 1252752217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd lose more time combined changing 1000 parts of memory
< 1252752231 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252752243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw, is this 64-bit windows?
< 1252752253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, cygwin wouldn't be
< 1252752254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but Cygwin is 32-bit afaik.
< 1252752257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252752275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the programs I've installed are 32-bit :P
< 1252752282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the antivirus...
< 1252752301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is some beta from Microsoft that I had to get from softpedia or something because apparently my country isn't invited)
< 1252752319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1252752329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft made an antivirus?
< 1252752332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it uses barely any megs and if it breaks I can blame microsoft
< 1252752341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Security Essentials
< 1252752343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems decent
< 1252752347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also does antimalware and stuff
< 1252752362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252752371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the former Windows Defender?
< 1252752373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Inline variables" like that aren't especially uncommon in hand-crafted assembly, for example in cases where you have some sort of configurable behaviour in a loop; it's cheaper to have a constant jmp instruction, whose operand is modified, than a separate variable with a load + indirect-jump in the loop.
< 1252752385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it uses the same definitions and everything
< 1252752434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed
< 1252752442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Depends. The Intel manuals warn against modifying code within 1KB (IIRC) of the modifying code
< 1252752473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think it's more an extended Windows Defender for, you know, extended purposes.
< 1252752478 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have sufficiently few iterations it may be cheaper to do the load and allow the branch predictor to handle the jump
< 1252752502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, well, modern architectures are confusing. I was talking more about 6502 and z80 assembly, where you can just count cycles, and everything's very obvious.
< 1252752527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there any predefined define to see if you run under cygwin btw?
< 1252752531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; if your CPU is just a blind interpreter then sure, that's faster :-)
< 1252752539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: #ifdef __GNU__ :-P
< 1252752552 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: __CYGWIN__
< 1252752554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that makes no sense
< 1252752555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that
< 1252752556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah right
< 1252752557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Or that
< 1252752565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, since you're talking about it I'll do it
< 1252752578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do what?
< 1252752589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patch up cfunge
< 1252752594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know of a lightweight programming editor for windows with a file tree list sidebar thingy?
< 1252752606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, make sure it actually works first ;P
< 1252752606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to hack this up as opposed to futzing with WordPad (which now looks like Word) and Explorer.
< 1252752615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you manage to solve it
< 1252752617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it won't, out of the box
< 1252752619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to patch it
< 1252752621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know
< 1252752622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1252752622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code
< 1252752630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was talking about the SOCK stuff
< 1252752634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1252752657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is it okay if I make it do dirty, dirty things if it's conditioned to only do it on cygwin?
< 1252752667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like compiling SOCK and SCKE in one go to the same .o, say...
< 1252752683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how the hell would you do that under cmake?
< 1252752695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No bloody idea.
< 1252752712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added the getaddrinfo object file as a "linker option" and commented out the checks for it; that's how build-system hostile I've been :-P
< 1252752724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh
< 1252752724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I almost gave up when I realised I'd have to install cmake. :-P
< 1252752740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just add it conditionally to the cfunge sources
< 1252752755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably for the best, yes
< 1252752758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs a define, though
< 1252752761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doesn't that violate gpl3?
< 1252752762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you *could* run gcc manually. I've done it on an openbsd box once
< 1252752773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't bsd GPL compatible?
< 1252752784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but your GPL code will try and infect the BSD code
< 1252752788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's evil
< 1252752793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, at least
< 1252752804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how the viral stuff works because it's an incredibly ill-defined concept.
< 1252752814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in the linked result it will be GPL, but not in the source file?
< 1252752822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I think so
< 1252752837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows :P
< 1252752856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, I was doing it on cfunge 0.9.0
< 1252752859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how outdated is that?
< 1252752861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*How
< 1252752890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm last release. let me check how many revisions ago
< 1252752908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm going to bemuse the ChatZilla users who aren't ChatZilla in-the-know kind of people some more: rheet rheet rheet
< 1252752914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just a few revisions ago, and the stuff after was pretty minor changes
< 1252752919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That includes me
< 1252752923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some typo fixes in comments and such
< 1252752934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Let's hope the cygwin bzr is new enough
< 1252752939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm goin' in
< 1252752943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what version
< 1252752948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea
< 1252752950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm about to download setup.exe
< 1252752955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr --version
< 1252752962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok, not installed yet
< 1252752997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use gcc 3 this time
< 1252753027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bzr 0.92 or later is absolutely required due to repo file format. But I would definitely recommend something more like 1.6 or later
< 1252753033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is using 1.17
< 1252753057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 1.17 okay?
< 1252753059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1252753075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's surprisingly recent for cygwin :P
< 1252753081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has gcc 4.3 on the 4 package
< 1252753084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, I think 1.18 is out now though
< 1252753102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep 1.18 is out now
< 1252753113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, as they say in the vernacular, let's do this shit
< 1252753119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1252753135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing cygwin, will then bzr myself some cfunge and sit bemused at bzr's interface
< 1252753147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is as far as I have planned
< 1252753149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what is the probability of ehird publishing it as a launchpad branch
< 1252753157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approximately -2
< 1252753167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of 1, naturally
< 1252753189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about copyright, I wonder if I should do like fsf here ;P
< 1252753206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if 0 is "certain that it won't happen", -1 is "certain that its negative will happen".
< 1252753215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then 2 is... certain it will happen... twice
< 1252753216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252753219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n\?/?/
< 1252753221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252753230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think I can agree to contracts
< 1252753232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being a minor
< 1252753236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh damn
< 1252753245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I can't contribute then!
< 1252753260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess you can. I just wonder...
< 1252753292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...if you or me will be most irritated by you being listed in CREDITS ;P
< 1252753337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^
< 1252753341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252753350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just spell my name Elliot and ensure that I stay more annoyed
< 1252753355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: DO NOT DO THIS)
< 1252753361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't it Eliot Hird?
< 1252753372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I misremember?
< 1252753372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's too incorrect to annoy me, somehow
< 1252753381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah it is Elliot Hird then?
< 1252753393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or was it Elliot Hurd?
< 1252753396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, AnMaster. Whatever you say.
< 1252753410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear it's Ellio Turd.
< 1252753416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252753446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jul 19 22:24:43 Defining Features of the Welsh, by Elliott Hird
< 1252753451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found the correct spelling in logs
< 1252753454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1252753475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you were joking, right?
< 1252753486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about?
< 1252753490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not knowing my name
< 1252753495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I wonder what the heck the context was there
< 1252753497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks
< 1252753522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sex with sheep
< 1252753523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usual
< 1252753525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also lack of vowels
< 1252753530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common staples of #esoteric both
< 1252753540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it stables? I don't actually know
< 1252753569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I know it in general, but not the exact spelling. If you had a normal name like Ekblom or Svensson or Östergren it would have been easier :P
< 1252753588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name is actually ingvar kamprad
< 1252753589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story
< 1252753600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kamprad isn't very common in Sweden either.
< 1252753647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people usually just call me random swedish words in all-capitals though.
< 1252753649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Especially "Svensson" is the Swedish equivalent of "Smith"
< 1252753676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the command to grab myself some latest cfunge?
< 1252753696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm lets see..
< 1252753711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news: gcc 3 here seems to not warn on static
< 1252753721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the SCKE/SOCK problem might not exist!
< 1252753729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bzr branch lp:cfunge
< 1252753730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1252753752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I changed to use launchpad nowdays
< 1252753765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creepy vendor support there :-P
< 1252753779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that seems to be working
< 1252753786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, question of not having my own server any more, and if I should go for launchpad of sf.net
< 1252753788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1252753805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or
< 1252753807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry.
< 1252753809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Habit.
< 1252753812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed
< 1252753848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see that use.perl.org blog thing where a Perlist was confused why anyone would choose GitHub over Sourceforge, pointing out that Sourceforge did all the same things?
< 1252753853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, it seems that the lp branch was still set as mirror of rage, thus being broken now
< 1252753860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm convinced some people actually can't see UIs
< 1252753867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, physically can't take note of them
< 1252753875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me when you branched so I can convert it to hosted branch without breaking your branching of it
< 1252753880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I branched it, yes.
< 1252753883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252753893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I just rebranch? It only took a second or two.
< 1252753899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. 15-30.
< 1252753901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still.
< 1252753940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs notepad++. It'll do for now patching up cfunge.
< 1252753954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calibri's italic is very nice. I say this because /mes are displaying in it.
< 1252753965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the properly cursive f and everything.
< 1252754004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:
< 1252754005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252754008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ?
< 1252754075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11 Should I just rebranch? It only took a second or two.
< 1252754077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11 Well. 15-30.
< 1252754079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11 Still.
< 1252754137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION messes around with lp to change it to hosted branch
< 1252754151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so atm I would recommend against it, since I'm navigating the UI maze
< 1252754209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION obliterates notepad++ for sucking
< 1252754238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about using emacs in cygwin?
< 1252754274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda want something I can use right away, and emacs' superbar plays hell with window managers IME
< 1252754284 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252754292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, superbar?
< 1252754299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the mode line you are referring to?
< 1252754303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the line below it
< 1252754309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs' docked-to-the-left-or-wherever file tree thing.
< 1252754315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For opening other files in whatever you're working on.
< 1252754321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that, right.
< 1252754322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x superbar.
< 1252754344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not available here it seems
< 1252754352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get no match
< 1252754359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet I think I have seen it
< 1252754369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pnotepad.org/ ;; Oh, this looks acceptable
< 1252754377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has syntax highlighting, a file tree and presumably auto indentation
< 1252754380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will do for now
< 1252754427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indention in cfunge is one tab per level, and space to adjust (that is, like when you line up with parenthesis above when you break a long line)
< 1252754449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll follow whatever awful bloated coding style you use. :)
< 1252754452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astyle --indent-preprocessor --indent-namespaces --indent-labels --one-line=keep-statements --indent=tab=4 --max-instatement-indent=40 --brackets=linux --min-conditional-indent=1 --unpad=paren --indent-switches --pad=oper "$@"
< 1252754455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mostly that
< 1252754468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm not about to program myself with an astyle command line...
< 1252754472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that messes up a few times, so there are some corrections
< 1252754489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it seems to dislike C99 structs with .foo in them
< 1252754560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I branch now?
< 1252754626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there seems to be an issue, I'm going to ask in #launchpad, but since you already branched I thought?
< 1252754637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it work if I use that thing?
< 1252754660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well think so, oh it is just update delay
< 1252754683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, launchpad may take a few minutes to reflect new revisions being pushed
< 1252754685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Files won't be added if I don't explicitly add them, right?
< 1252754687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache stuff and such
< 1252754698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just I made a cfunge.pnproj file to view the file tree.
< 1252754698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, depends on what you mean with "add"
< 1252754703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To bzr
< 1252754705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add in the git sense or add in the normal sense
< 1252754713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where normal is svn, hg and so on
< 1252754734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal sense
< 1252754735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unversioned files won't be auto-added
< 1252754741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good
< 1252754757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then, attempt one: build it straight
< 1252754766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what sort of crappy VCS would auto-add unversioned files?
< 1252754766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, forgot to install make
< 1252754772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252754774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A crappy one like bzr? :P
< 1252754785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, that was just disproved. :P
< 1252754814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, cygwin or something has set my mosue pointer to the ugly, unsmoothed windows xp style one
< 1252754842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixes
< 1252754857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it persisted after cygwin closed?
< 1252754867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what did it, really
< 1252754868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just guessing
< 1252754877 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252754884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1252754900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1252755023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, ccmake starts! :-P
< 1252755035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could use just cmake you know.
< 1252755038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: context: I'm trying to compile cfunge with Cygwin with patches, ingenuity, evil
< 1252755049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no clue why ehird is doing this
< 1252755053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but I want to see the variables in case I need to change them
< 1252755069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's a pretty good followup to my line
< 1252755071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1252755072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, a bit harder to remember what ones to change otherwise
< 1252755074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:30 [INFO] 1 matches for “an”: [AnMaster: ]
< 1252755076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice bug there
< 1252755079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ambiguity of 1
< 1252755083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: reminds me of when I tried to run CLC-INTERCAL under DJGPP
< 1252755088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :52%
< 1252755089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " 11:30 [INFO] 1 matches for “an”: [AnMaster: ]" <-- ?
< 1252755092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57%
< 1252755096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh chatzilla?
< 1252755096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error!
< 1252755099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end I gave up, it was too hard to figure out where to change line endings
< 1252755099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those were in realtime)
< 1252755103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's how slow it is)
< 1252755108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1252755109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh what error?
< 1252755126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMake Error at cmake/modules/CfungeRequireFunction.cmake:35 (message):
< 1252755128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Your system seems to be missing the function "getaddrinfo" which is
< 1252755130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : required by cfunge.
< 1252755132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1252755132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally
< 1252755133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1252755142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, time to do my first patching
< 1252755147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first thing, get the getaddrinfo lib in place
< 1252755149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will need to be changed to check for it conditionally and use the alternative one otherwise
< 1252755153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second thing, kill myself before learning how to make a cmake file
< 1252755155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is this from gnulib?
< 1252755160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252755174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sra.co.jp/people/m-kasahr/getaddrinfo/
< 1252755175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I used gnulib code before btw
< 1252755191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but this thing is portable, which is good
< 1252755195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have to check for cygwin here
< 1252755197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=gnulib.git;a=blob_plain;f=modules/getaddrinfo
< 1252755200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not having getaddrinfo
< 1252755212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1252755213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because that one's probably gnucrap and I doubt it works on Windows :-P
< 1252755219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is too autotools tieed
< 1252755221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tied*
< 1252755229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :told you, gnucrap
< 1252755247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, this should go in lib/getaddrinfo if I know the structure right?
< 1252755266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it contains #ifdef _WIN32 though
< 1252755276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does
< 1252755279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep
< 1252755285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the gnulib getaddrinfo
< 1252755288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1252755289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=gnulib.git;a=blob_plain;f=lib/getaddrinfo.c
< 1252755292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=gnulib.git;a=blob_plain;f=lib/gai_strerror.c
< 1252755305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but it is quite tied into automess
< 1252755314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh some BeOS stuff in there too
< 1252755321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look pretty much the same, except one of them is unreadable because it uses the gnu coding standard
< 1252755333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't think the .jp getaddrinfo has any platform checks
< 1252755355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: should I keep getaddrinfo's ./configure and stuff in there even though it's not used?
< 1252755357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH THE FONT
< 1252755376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can just -DUSE_PTHREAD when compiling it to an .o then link that in, so there's not much need for anything.)
< 1252755381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah, but license should be placed somewhere or such
< 1252755381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font on what?
< 1252755391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sra.co.jp/people/m-kasahr/getaddrinfo/
< 1252755395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll keep it so it's a pristine package; probably better for the license
< 1252755396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the double width thingy
< 1252755404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1252755405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sra.co.jp/people/m-kasahr/getaddrinfo/index.css
< 1252755408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame your browser
< 1252755417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, firefox that is
< 1252755423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1252755424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1252755427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense then
< 1252755479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the gnu one does look simpler to me
< 1252755484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't suppose CFUNGE_REQUIRE_FUNCTION has any sort of else clause?
< 1252755505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is another macro for when it optional. let me check the name
< 1252755519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION
< 1252755523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252755526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do tests on it
< 1252755535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the only files needed in the non-gnu version is getaddrinfo.{c,h}
< 1252755537 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252755538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION(clock_gettime)
< 1252755538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_clock_gettime)
< 1252755539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are
< 1252755542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is done there
< 1252755543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah
< 1252755588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you will need to do some conditional adding on "add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES})" to include those extra files optionally
< 1252755589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is there a way to say "if we don't have any of these" other than a bunch of checks then NOT foo OR NOT bar?
< 1252755591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not
< 1252755605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: is there a way to say "if we don't have any of these" other than a bunch of checks then NOT foo OR NOT bar? <-- clarify?
< 1252755614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter
< 1252755623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_REQUIRE_MULTIPLE_INCLUDES("sys/types.h;netinet/tcp.h" "netinet/tcp.h")
< 1252755625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that?
< 1252755644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where should I put the
< 1252755646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION(getaddrinfo)
< 1252755647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION(freeaddrinfo)
< 1252755649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then adding logic stuff?
< 1252755651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the "Optional" section?
< 1252755651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not there no
< 1252755653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Optional
< 1252755659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you mean like that
< 1252755665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., after the Existance of various functions section
< 1252755669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's Existence
< 1252755679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere there
< 1252755690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok will fix that typo
< 1252755755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pushed fix
< 1252755793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to give the whole clause in the endif part?
< 1252755795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so verbose and stuff.
< 1252755809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep. cmake isn't perfect either
< 1252755816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, much better than autoconf
< 1252755834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, this thing is basically a shell script with worse syntax.
< 1252755841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generating a config.mk
< 1252755843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252755857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:39 ehird, you will need to do some conditional adding on "add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES})" to include those extra files optionally
< 1252755860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, better syntax than autoconf thoughg
< 1252755864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I need to find out how to append to variables, huh
< 1252755866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tough*
< 1252755870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though
< 1252755882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or set the variable to empty if the extra sources aren't needed
< 1252755899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES} ${CFUNGE_OPTIONAL_SOURCES}) should work I think
< 1252755902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried it
< 1252755907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the optional ones could vary
< 1252755918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know how to set variablse :-P
< 1252755920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*variables
< 1252755944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, look at the definitions of the macros
< 1252755954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cmake/modules/*
< 1252755967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_HAVE_${_name} true PARENT_SCOPE)
< 1252755968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there
< 1252755977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this is special in a macro
< 1252755983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't need the parent scope stuff
< 1252755993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor building the variable name dynamically
< 1252756037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about to define a cpp thing for the program?
< 1252756044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we need to include getaddrinfo.h
< 1252756052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, also add -Ilib/getaddrinfo
< 1252756055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean, define a -Dfoo kind of thing?
< 1252756057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such complicated things :-P
< 1252756059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah
< 1252756071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_definitions(-Dfoo)
< 1252756100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as for the -I stuff: no, use ../../ or such rather
< 1252756109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugly, but okay.
< 1252756110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is less likely to break stuff with system headers
< 1252756124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I remember that last time I tried on windows I had a header name collision
< 1252756126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, do I have to do ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/../lib/getaddrinfo in the CMakeLists.txt?
< 1252756128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot for what file
< 1252756131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or will lib/getaddrinfo work
< 1252756135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For adding a source file
< 1252756154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would use a FILE like I do for the other ones
< 1252756168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A FILE?
< 1252756173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE(GLOB CFUNGE__OPTIONAL_SOURCES RELATIVE ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR} lib/getaddrinfo/*)
< 1252756178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that handles the paths correctly
< 1252756182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, it's only one .c.
< 1252756182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252756184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE(GLOB CFUNGE__OPTIONAL_SOURCES RELATIVE ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR} lib/getaddrinfo/*.)
< 1252756186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE(GLOB CFUNGE__OPTIONAL_SOURCES RELATIVE ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR} lib/getaddrinfo/*.c)
< 1252756186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even
< 1252756191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only one file
< 1252756193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah hm
< 1252756194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest are tests and stuff
< 1252756200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would need to be relative the source dir
< 1252756205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and an implementation of memset for no adequately explained reason
< 1252756226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, memset implementation? heh
< 1252756237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer using system defined memset in general
< 1252756243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't use it or anything
< 1252756245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just there
< 1252756247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1252756266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, in case you wanted one
< 1252756270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would definitely strip down the un-needed files, and provide a README in there pointing to the source and describing the changes
< 1252756285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it's not really a lib, is it?
< 1252756286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is include the .c/.h and LICENSE
< 1252756290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's a NEWS file and stuff.
< 1252756294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, the other libs are stripped down too
< 1252756304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The license is in the README
< 1252756317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok. Try to apply some common sense?
< 1252756328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, fine, I'll strip it down
< 1252756339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just feels disrespectful to lob off their documentation
< 1252756364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is BSD 2 clause or?
< 1252756376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 clause
< 1252756386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can't say "cfunge! Now with added getaddrinfo for retarded operating systems!"
< 1252756390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Buy it today!"
< 1252756422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: presumably, if you're messing with getaddrinfo it means that the core works but some of the fingerprints don't?
< 1252756437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok, see the top COPYING file? I think it should possibly be appended in there like is done for libghthash and genx
< 1252756438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It refuses to even configure without getaddrinfo.
< 1252756442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and ccbi
< 1252756454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libghthash has a COPYING.
< 1252756469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep as well, just noticed the duplication
< 1252756471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why not just roll your own build system?
< 1252756472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252756483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because my patches wouldn't be accepted.
< 1252756486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because he want to send the patches upstream I think
< 1252756497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, what on earth made you do this?
< 1252756503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to just replace the whole thing with a shell script that outputs a config.mk which is included by a simple Makefile, but I doubt that'd be accepted
< 1252756529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A stubborn refusal to accept the status quo opinion that you can write a program so POSIX, the laws of physics dictate that Windows can't run it
< 1252756562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I hate to bring up the "Windows is TC" argument, so I won't
< 1252756566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because I'm not sure if it works
< 1252756571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never claimed that. I only said I'm not willing to invest time in getting it running on windows
< 1252756580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't want to mess up with too much #ifdef
< 1252756583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What I said is known as a ``joke''.
< 1252756590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen such ifdef rich portable code
< 1252756593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shush you :P
< 1252756594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you fail at smartquotes
< 1252756596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifdef-rich*
< 1252756604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thinking of NetHack?
< 1252756605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *faggot quotes (Don't hate me. This is their actual name.)
< 1252756613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least, as far as a large variety of people are concerned.)
< 1252756614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mosaic too
< 1252756619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are a form of ``emphasis''.
< 1252756627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was filled with VAX specific ifdefs
< 1252756628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ``GNU Project'' likes them.
< 1252756638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and they're used by default by `m4'
< 1252756641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not for emphasis
< 1252756646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for actual quoting
< 1252756650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh
< 1252756655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION holds off on minimalising the getaddrinfo library for later
< 1252756657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, IIRC WinHlp32 used them too for its internal programming language
< 1252756660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then what about the [] stuff that automess likes?
< 1252756667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think was non-TC due to lack of infinite memory, but would otherwise have been TC
< 1252756671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they're configurable
< 1252756674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252756681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere near the start would be changequote(`[',`]')
< 1252756688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES} ${CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES})
< 1252756690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a sane way of doing it?
< 1252756706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well if you set CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES to empty in case those aren't used
< 1252756716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it will error if unset
< 1252756719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason that autotools changes the quotes is that both ` and ' are rather common in shell-script, and they don't even balance each other!
< 1252756722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES) before checking, yes.
< 1252756727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252756754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also -DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY; do you want me to add a namespace or ten to that?
< 1252756758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, adding the _Exit() vs. _exit() would be trivial, could do that here myself
< 1252756770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of this is trivial
< 1252756786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, except the SOCK/SCKE bit
< 1252756804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get a warning about static with gcc 3 and a test file.
< 1252756814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it's a problem with the gcc 4 packages or smething.
< 1252756814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and does cygwin define __WIN32__?
< 1252756815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway.
< 1252756821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know.
< 1252756822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, src/instructions/sysinfo.c needs changing
< 1252756827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll see.
< 1252756834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:59 I also -DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY; do you want me to add a namespace or ten to that?
< 1252756835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it define a dummy environ in that case.
< 1252756837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is:
< 1252756841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define USE_PTHREADS
< 1252756845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include .../.../.sdf.sdfsdfskf
< 1252756847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#undef USE_PTHREADS
< 1252756852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both source files acceptable?
< 1252756895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 11:59 I also -DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY; do you want me to add a namespace or ten to that? <-- can't see how it would collide? and would be easy to change afterwards
< 1252756903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why pthreads?
< 1252756912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't thread-safe unless you let it use pthreads.
< 1252756916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume cfunge is threaded somewhere.
< 1252756920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't use threads
< 1252756930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then.
< 1252756942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't think ATHR is implemented in cfunge
< 1252756950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, correct
< 1252756955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "../../../lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.h"
< 1252756958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seven billion ../s
< 1252756959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep
< 1252756995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, time for cmake round 2: Electric Boogaloo, or, see how much I broke things.
< 1252757022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call me back in an hour when it's finished the first configuration step :P
< 1252757028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's going, so I guess I didn't break it too horribly.
< 1252757031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure that even if you get it to link, that it will actually run
< 1252757036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run correctly
< 1252757046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not
< 1252757056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge can run emacs and stuff
< 1252757061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on a ported X11
< 1252757065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge runs emacs? XD
< 1252757069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1252757071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin.
< 1252757075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it shouldn't be able to handle a puny befunge interpreter.
< 1252757077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although... slowly...
< 1252757080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe.
< 1252757082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending.
< 1252757086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the inline asm will work.
< 1252757110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the inline asm is used for x86_64, I only wrote intrinsics using code for 32-bit x86
< 1252757130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin FAQ
< 1252757132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as we know no one is working on a native 64 bit version of Cygwin.
< 1252757133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well bugger :P
< 1252757153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot, first cmake stage finished
< 1252757153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you put 64-bit asm in an otherwise 32-bit program?
< 1252757156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it works
< 1252757158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far
< 1252757159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no
< 1252757160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no.
< 1252757162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm relatively sure you could do that with 32 and 16
< 1252757163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to switch into long mode
< 1252757170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which completely changes everything
< 1252757172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but at some point I might add 32-bit asm too. Or not.
< 1252757176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if running in protected mode, at least
< 1252757190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe you should be the cygwin maintainer of cfunge in the future! :D
< 1252757193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amd64 was an excuse to make x86 slightly less crufty :P
< 1252757201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bait 'n switch to no-legacy land
< 1252757204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no legacy
< 1252757212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure. can't be too hard
< 1252757222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I'm quite liking windows 7 I should be up for it
< 1252757223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was supposed to be a joke
< 1252757237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you was supposed to go "gaah" at or so
< 1252757238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's #esoteric's motto, ais523?
< 1252757244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never let a joke get in the way of a bad idea.
< 1252757253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it isn't that
< 1252757253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right forgot that
< 1252757260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, I made that more snappy from what you originally said, but.)
< 1252757264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's "WHO TOOK THE KONAMI CODE OUT OF THE TOPIC?"
< 1252757267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at one point I complained you and AnMaster were ruining a joke
< 1252757273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while trying to figure out how it'd work in practice
< 1252757276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you said something along the lines
< 1252757276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1252757279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems more like #esoteric
< 1252757302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm not going to try installing this time, btw
< 1252757305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I'd have to fix up the install path
< 1252757310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess
< 1252757311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, installing isn't something I do very often either
< 1252757318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it will do -O3, it seems
< 1252757321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I test it before each release
< 1252757324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since that's what release has
< 1252757330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, those are only defaults
< 1252757333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so funny seeing paths like "/usr/bin/strip.exe"
< 1252757334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change them as needed
< 1252757344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to add -march= to the release ones for example
< 1252757350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE_64BIT is on; better turn that off.
< 1252757357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that just changes cell size
< 1252757375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fine, for speed you definitely want 32-bit cells on 32-bit system
< 1252757376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 32-bit will be faster with a 32-bit compile.
< 1252757385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is faster even on x86_64
< 1252757389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to cache mostl
< 1252757391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly*
< 1252757393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Mine will totally be faster because Windows just puts shit in the kernel to improve speed.
< 1252757399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GUI's in the kernel because of that reason. :P
< 1252757410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mycology will hit that fork() at least two times
< 1252757412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI
< 1252757417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should work fine.
< 1252757434 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252757434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I think some #defines in the code for y will need changing
< 1252757438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, Makefile generated
< 1252757441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to make
< 1252757450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: First objective is getting it to build
< 1252757451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, would you say the path separator should be \ or / under cygwin?
< 1252757458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's /usr/bin and stuff
< 1252757464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c:\foo isn't, like, official
< 1252757469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're meant to do /cygdrive/c/foo
< 1252757473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, / for sure
< 1252757487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, depending on what cygwin defines it might need some changing then
< 1252757497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, this again; cfunge balks because Cygwin doesn't claim that its mmap and regexp are meticulously POSIX-compliant
< 1252757501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef __WIN32__
< 1252757501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define PUSH_REQ_6(m_pushstack) \
< 1252757501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stack_push((m_pushstack), (funge_cell)'\\')
< 1252757501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else
< 1252757501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define PUSH_REQ_6(m_pushstack) \
< 1252757502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stack_push((m_pushstack), (funge_cell)'/')
< 1252757504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif
< 1252757506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I have there atm
< 1252757507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a crime henious enough of an #error
< 1252757512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to cfunge
< 1252757521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like a very silly check to me
< 1252757529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I have been considering a better way to check that
< 1252757541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since openbsd has problems in that area too
< 1252757557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes there are some implicit declaration warnings in genx, as well as cast-discarding-qualifier warnings
< 1252757569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in genx stringbuffer, implicit declarations and nested extern declarations
< 1252757570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so they will probably change in the soon future in any case
< 1252757576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in genx stringbuffer, implicit declarations and nested extern declarations <-- wait?
< 1252757578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other misc stuff
< 1252757582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a missing "and" there
< 1252757585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1252757588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252757596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some implicit decls in cfunge
< 1252757598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like srandom()
< 1252757605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ouch this might be bad
< 1252757608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what should I do
< 1252757610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|| __CYGWIN__?
< 1252757622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the posix checks
< 1252757625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because that just means... that it is called without showing up in header
< 1252757631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with /* FIXME: hack */
< 1252757635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but the linker didn't complain last time
< 1252757639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll just be in another header file
< 1252757645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, cygwin uses newlib
< 1252757645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fine atm, because they are expected to go away soon
< 1252757652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fyi
< 1252757668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, issue is if that implicit decl turns out like: foo(int, char*) when it is really foo(long, char*)
< 1252757669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1252757675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh
< 1252757676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or long long
< 1252757677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't too many
< 1252757684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm
< 1252757692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a rule about not going over 80cols?
< 1252757705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no hard rule, but I try to keep it not too wide
< 1252757707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1252757708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungespace_set(value, vector_create_ref(position->x + offset->x, position->y + offset->y));
< 1252757710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :96 cols
< 1252757717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, assuming 4-space tabs, I guess
< 1252757720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what my editor's default is
< 1252757726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hard tabs)
< 1252757742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before doing anything, I'll commit my getaddrinfo fix
< 1252757749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I tell bzr who I am? Simple command or?
< 1252757753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I try to break lines at 80 if it will not end up looking even worese
< 1252757754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse*
< 1252757755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so
< 1252757770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, as long as I don't end up scrolling sideways in my own editor :P
< 1252757771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on an #if line directly after the hackish clause
< 1252757778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, kinda hard to break up
< 1252757779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How do I tell bzr who I am? Simple command or?
< 1252757785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you mean for commits?
< 1252757789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252757792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr help whoami
< 1252757795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see syntax
< 1252757804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yep, pretty simple
< 1252757809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you might want to nick the branch too
< 1252757814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to bzr nick cfunge-ehird or so
< 1252757819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge-cygwin
< 1252757825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that works too
< 1252757830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr nick cfunge-cygwin
< 1252757839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default it is same as directory name
< 1252757841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, I wish the scrollbar worked in cmd.exe
< 1252757847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er
< 1252757849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't=
< 1252757849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrollwheel
< 1252757851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252757852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The scrollbar works fine if you drag it
< 1252757861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cygwin provides rxvt and such
< 1252757875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that breaks on native windows programs and stuff, I think
< 1252757881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, cmd.exe is mostly fine
< 1252757881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm probably
< 1252757884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using bash in it of course
< 1252757922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bzr commit" now?
< 1252757942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway implict decls are kind of bad. Kind of bad as in "don't ever commit that". Maybe falling back on rand/srand or such could work
< 1252757957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll commit it because it's temporary work
< 1252757961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bzr ci -m "log message goes here, or it opens a editor for you"
< 1252757966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine-grained commits are nice for, you know, reverting
< 1252757967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, commit works too
< 1252757972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ci is shorter
< 1252757980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed
< 1252758020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, there is bzr send, but I doubt you can get that working under windows
< 1252758029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do?
< 1252758031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is cygwin remember
< 1252758034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has sshd and all kinds of stuff
< 1252758034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, send commits by mail
< 1252758041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should work fine
< 1252758053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you have a mail client and such set up?
< 1252758057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First commit, ba-za-za-done!
< 1252758061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't it use sendmail?
< 1252758072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure, I never tried it
< 1252758105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant's wrong; it doesn't define cygwin
< 1252758128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: /nobody/ can use sendmail
< 1252758130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err __CYWIN__ with two _?
< 1252758143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sendmail(1) is trivial
< 1252758147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I could, but I prefer qmail
< 1252758155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Isn't that what it is?
< 1252758157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fails with one _ too, anyway
< 1252758169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec for a gcc command to list all predefined defines
< 1252758185 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252758190 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host
< 1252758193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo | gcc -dM -E -
< 1252758211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will list all predefined ones on stdout
< 1252758216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build
< 1252758218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo | gcc -DM -E -
< 1252758220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 ""
< 1252758222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 ""
< 1252758223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 ""
< 1252758225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252758225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 ""
< 1252758226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build
< 1252758228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$
< 1252758229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR WILL IT
< 1252758231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what gcc version
< 1252758233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo | gcc -dM -E - | wc -l
< 1252758233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128
< 1252758237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.4.4
< 1252758242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh might be too old
< 1252758247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, at least it doesn't complain about static" Edition
< 1252758268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, works on 3.4.6 here, don't have any older
< 1252758270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, it has gdc, apparently
< 1252758296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-3.4.6 gcc-4.1.2 gcc-4.3.2 are the ones I have according to tab completion
< 1252758313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh
< 1252758316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__CYGWIN__ expands to 1
< 1252758317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 4.3.3 on my laptop
< 1252758319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I do cpp /dev/stdin
< 1252758326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh!
< 1252758330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok, then it should be defined
< 1252758333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if !defined(_POSIX_MAPPED_FILES) || (_POSIX_MAPPED_FILES < 1) || __CYGWIN__ /* hack */
< 1252758335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# error "cfunge needs a working mmap(), which this system claims it lacks."
< 1252758337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spot the error
< 1252758339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that won't work
< 1252758343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defined()
< 1252758346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252758347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail
< 1252758350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read it again
< 1252758362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh backwards too
< 1252758362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, of course it will; __CYGWIN__ expands to 1)
< 1252758377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I use defined() instead?
< 1252758379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!defined(__CYGWIN__)
< 1252758381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work
< 1252758382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there
< 1252758383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1252758384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kay
< 1252758391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1252758392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't
< 1252758400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sis
< 1252758402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did
< 1252758404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*did
< 1252758409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if (!defined(_POSIX_MAPPED_FILES) || (_POSIX_MAPPED_FILES < 1)) && !defined(__CYGWIN__)
< 1252758414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it will break everywhere else
< 1252758415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moar implicit decl + nested decl
< 1252758416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252758418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cast warnings
< 1252758419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^
< 1252758422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252758423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I did
< 1252758426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252758433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to do the same to REXP.c
< 1252758440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what?
< 1252758445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# error "cfunge needs POSIX regular expressions, which this system claims it doesn't have."
< 1252758447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252758455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I don't check that in cmakelists I think hm
< 1252758456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1252758457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I?
< 1252758461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR DO YOU
< 1252758468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already said that
< 1252758473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway seems I do
< 1252758479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_REQUIRE_FUNCTION(regcomp)
< 1252758483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/REXP/REXP.c.o
< 1252758485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 3%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/ROMA/ROMA.c.o
< 1252758487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 5%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o
< 1252758488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 7%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SOCK/SOCK.c.o
< 1252758490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 9%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/STRN/STRN.c.o
< 1252758491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 11%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SUBR/SUBR.c.o
< 1252758492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252758493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes?
< 1252758493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 13%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/TERM/TERM.c.o
< 1252758494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam
< 1252758494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 15%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/TIME/TIME.c.o
< 1252758496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 17%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/TOYS/TOYS.c.o
< 1252758497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple files with no warnings
< 1252758499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a true beauty
< 1252758501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's something I have not yet seen in this compile :P
< 1252758504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252758513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the good ol' M_PI undeclared
< 1252758517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tell me what your M_PI is?
< 1252758523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit
< 1252758525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well POSIX declares it as XSI.
< 1252758526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: M_PI isn't standard AFAIK
< 1252758531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It isn't
< 1252758536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, POSIX 2008 mentions it here
< 1252758541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of XSI
< 1252758542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be on the header files back on DOS, though
< 1252758544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math.h, to be precise
< 1252758552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes it should be in math.h
< 1252758552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably not a header file you can legally put it in
< 1252758561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... read what I said
< 1252758561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a feature test macro, or something similar
< 1252758562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yo, pi plz
< 1252758594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define M_PI 3.14159265358979323846 /* pi */
< 1252758608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copied from math.h
< 1252758618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the comment there
< 1252758619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is whatever license glibc uses
< 1252758627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define M_PI 3.14159265358979323846 /* pi */
< 1252758627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define M_PI_2 1.57079632679489661923 /* pi/2 */
< 1252758627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define M_PI_4 0.78539816339744830962 /* pi/4 */
< 1252758629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is that too
< 1252758629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be a horrible pirate
< 1252758636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And COMPLETELY IGNORE their copyright on pi!
< 1252758647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I think the copyright is the formatting here :P
< 1252758648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: take the value, and write the rest of the line from scratch
< 1252758653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did :P
< 1252758666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I refuse to add the explanatory /* pi */ comment!
< 1252758671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("explanatory")
< 1252758672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, include #ifndef M_PI
< 1252758676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case it is defined
< 1252758677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course
< 1252758679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, we're on to linking
< 1252758694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/PERL/PERL.c.o:PERL.c:(.text+0x1b9): undef
< 1252758696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ined reference to `__Exit'
< 1252758698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0x65): undefi
< 1252758699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway POSIX.1-2008 declares M_PI on page 286
< 1252758699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_getaddrinfo'
< 1252758701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0xa4): undefi
< 1252758702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_freeaddrinfo'
< 1252758704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy peasy
< 1252758706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess including it in sources doesn't link its object?
< 1252758714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9518 XSI M_PI Value of π
< 1252758714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9519 XSI M_PI_2 Value of π /2
< 1252758714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9520 XSI M_PI_4 Value of π /4
< 1252758714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9521 XSI M_1_PI Value of 1/π
< 1252758714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9522 XSI M_2_PI Value of 2/π
< 1252758718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are line numbers
< 1252758724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for easy reference
< 1252758728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait
< 1252758730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't define a FILE
< 1252758731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing
< 1252758736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yep, generally speaking, unless they're in one of the standard libraries
< 1252758747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm talking about cmake
< 1252758749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stfu :P
< 1252758764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so yes M_PI *is* standard
< 1252758768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Is there a FILE(NOGLOBBINGORANYTHING or whatever?
< 1252758778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, think so. man cmake?
< 1252758793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man works. That's a nice surprise.
< 1252758805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longest manual EVAR
< 1252758808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or rather, you don't need FILE if it is one file, just remember it must be relative
< 1252758814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop, bash one is longer iirc
< 1252758821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess
< 1252758822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is the non-split zsh one
< 1252758825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c)
< 1252758826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be
< 1252758828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc one is pretty long too
< 1252758833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/../lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c)
< 1252758840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not the .. there
< 1252758844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1252758845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR} is the top one
< 1252758854 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252758873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reconfigures
< 1252758915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I make an installer for this I could get you to do the unthinkable embarrassment and put a windows binary up for download :-P
< 1252758935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting work ethic here, where my half-hearted desire to see you squirm is making me improve your software
< 1252758939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb. mom shouted
< 1252758950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ARE YOU ASSOCIATING WITH CYGWIN SCOUNDRELS?"
< 1252758958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THEY'RE NOT PURE BLOODED, AN!"
< 1252758967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AnMaster's name: totally An Master.)
< 1252759022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, make time.
< 1252759066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, same error
< 1252759075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's just in SCKE, not SOCK
< 1252759078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix the _Exit thing first
< 1252759130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1252759135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, don to two errors.
< 1252759145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0x65): undefi
< 1252759147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, remembers small commits
< 1252759147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_getaddrinfo'
< 1252759149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0xa4): undefi
< 1252759150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_freeaddrinfo'
< 1252759160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, right; I'll revert one change
< 1252759162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, conditional include header there too I guess
< 1252759163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does SOCK use getaddrinfo?
< 1252759183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, grep? It would take you equal time to me to find out
< 1252759202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is no
< 1252759206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I commit only some files?
< 1252759206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1252759218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bzr ci foo.c bar.c -m "message here"
< 1252759223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so
< 1252759232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would exclude quux.c
< 1252759295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, note that cd foo/; bzr ci, will commit stuff in bar/ too by default, ci/diff/log and so on tend to be centered on tree root by default, unless you do something like bzr diff .
< 1252759296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1252759300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to indicate current directory
< 1252759336 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252759344 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252759360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anything else? oh btw for _Exit vs. _exit
< 1252759368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to add any define in cmake
< 1252759371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checks for them
< 1252759377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#ifndef _Exit
< 1252759379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+# define _Exit _exit /* This probably works */
< 1252759379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the check macro adds defines by default
< 1252759381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#endif
< 1252759382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure everything has _exit
< 1252759383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm or that I guess
< 1252759385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it?
< 1252759393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even Windows.
< 1252759516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, when it comes to warnings, the implicit ones needs to be fixed at least
< 1252759519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, only one thing to go: fix the seeming unlinkingness of getaddrinfo/freeaddrinfo.
< 1252759529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure, but it'll still work.
< 1252759547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it might by pure chance, see what I said about prototypes first time you mentioned this
< 1252759552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0x65): undefi
< 1252759554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_getaddrinfo'
< 1252759556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0xa4): undefi
< 1252759558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_freeaddrinfo'
< 1252759561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet the relevant file is in the executable thingy.
< 1252759561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252759573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, what is the _ doing there?
< 1252759576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows.
< 1252759583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything gets prefixed by a _.
< 1252759588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1252759650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure those are included? try in ccmake to turn on CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE
< 1252759656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in the advanced section
< 1252759661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will make the commands be printed
< 1252759670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can see if the link command looks sane
< 1252759762 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252759820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders asking the Windows developer on IAmA about the most efficient way to implement fork() :-P
< 1252759832 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252759851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, verbose making go.
< 1252759856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy fuck you have a lot of -W options.
< 1252759899 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252759950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://pastie.org/614537.txt?key=zovi8xmxwmc4mlpaow have fun with the wall of text :P
< 1252760026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("libcfunge.dll.a")
< 1252760037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks
< 1252760048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lol)
< 1252760057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too hard to read
< 1252760075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what was the file that handled getaddrinfo again?
< 1252760085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c
< 1252760086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no getaddrinfo mentioned in there
< 1252760092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it seems something went wrong
< 1252760100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES)
< 1252760102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION(getaddrinfo)
< 1252760104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION(freeaddrinfo)
< 1252760105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo OR NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo)
< 1252760107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c)
< 1252760108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : add_definitions(-DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY)
< 1252760110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo OR NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo)
< 1252760112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1252760114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES} ${CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES})
< 1252760122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "(NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo OR NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo)" < try only the first part
< 1252760130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the system only has one?
< 1252760139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well just try it atm to see if that was the issue
< 1252760142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll parenthesize it
< 1252760145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember to change endif
< 1252760147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet the NOT is getting the rest of it
< 1252760170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, suspect that too
< 1252760170 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252760203 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252760312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it configurd.
< 1252760314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*configured
< 1252760322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like compiling KDE :P
< 1252760390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same fuckin' error
< 1252760408 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252760413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Should I just remove the if and do it unconditionally?
< 1252760414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to make sure
< 1252760433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, worth a tryoe
< 1252760442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tryoe: Try + typo
< 1252760444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trye*
< 1252760446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try*
< 1252760448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Aloe
< 1252760452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252760458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :levenshtein correction
< 1252760461 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.181.73 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252760463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one distance at a time
< 1252760469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed
< 1252760524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : + Aloe <-- ?
< 1252760536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try + typo = tryo
< 1252760543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I needed an oe from somewhere
< 1252760547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252760616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, configured.
< 1252760624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I started when I said "levenshtien correction".)
< 1252760631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right, 3 minutes to get from 0% to 100%.
< 1252760666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should download one of those Expose-for-Windows things; Windows-Tab is useless.
< 1252760701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Guess whether the error differs or not
< 1252760703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bingo
< 1252760721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So,
< 1252760732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is FILE(GLOB FOO RELATIVE BAR BAZ*QUUX)
< 1252760734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just,
< 1252760749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = glob(bar/baz*quux)
< 1252760750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252760826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oe
< 1252760828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or
< 1252760936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ?
< 1252760938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm?
< 1252760942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I know!
< 1252760944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES} ${CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES})
< 1252760948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That third argument isn't more sources
< 1252760950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something else, I bet
< 1252760955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh could be.
< 1252760957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I concatenate the two, then? Or is it not that?
< 1252760957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check man page
< 1252760963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. It's impossible to search
< 1252760976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There
< 1252760980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1252760980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't know how to search cmake?
< 1252760981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252760982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man page
< 1252760988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use /
< 1252760990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : add_executable( [WIN32] [MACOSX_BUNDLE] [EXCLUDE_FROM_ALL]
< 1252760991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : source1 source2 ... sourceN)
< 1252760992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean
< 1252760992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1252760993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that
< 1252760995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1252760997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252760997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it should work
< 1252761018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that win7 had something Expose-like called "Aero Peek", but apparently that's some other thing entirely.
< 1252761021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a halt_and_prompt_the_user_for_confirmation_after_printing?
< 1252761033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Windows-Tab gives each window in front of each other, 3D-style.
< 1252761048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just different enough from Expose to be not a ripoff and useless.
< 1252761049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they stole that from Compiz
< 1252761057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly the same effect, and the same key combo too
< 1252761058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I very much doubt that's the case
< 1252761059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm?
< 1252761063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was in Vista
< 1252761064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, super-tab is scrolly
< 1252761076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Compiz stole almost all of its effects from OS X and Vista
< 1252761077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I think the windows version puts everything side-on so you can't see it
< 1252761080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could make it an error message containing the thing, or use cmake instead of ccmake
< 1252761086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, how do you error?
< 1252761095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : message(FATAL_ERROR
< 1252761095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Your system seems to be missing the header \"${_name}\" which is required by cfunge.")
< 1252761098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is an example
< 1252761106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm aware that it's blatantly stealing from OSX; I'm not sure about which way round it is compared to the Vista effects
< 1252761128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I remember the 3d-window-stackery from Vista;re. but that "Aero Peek" is some sort of taskbar-preview-related featu
< 1252761128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The minimize, restore effects are identical
< 1252761135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the open window, close window ones
< 1252761144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either Compiz stole them, or Microsoft enjoy legal deep shit
< 1252761159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the minimize-restore effects are obvious
< 1252761169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter; those 4 being identical is telling
< 1252761172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean identical
< 1252761174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm willing to believe that those ones could have been invented independently
< 1252761174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixel-for-pixel
< 1252761182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but when paired with the other two...
< 1252761187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are totally nonobvious
< 1252761199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does OSX do for those, by the way?
< 1252761207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For opening and closing windows?
< 1252761209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing.
< 1252761218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such animations are useless eyecandy.
< 1252761237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for minimize and restore it has useless eye candy too
< 1252761238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an unresponsive system, it's useful to have an obvious way to notice when a window's opened
< 1252761244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that method is the correct one, though
< 1252761254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the fact that a new window shows up?
< 1252761257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that enough?
< 1252761269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not always, especially if you're staring at something else at the time
< 1252761287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you are looking at something else, you wouldn't see animation either?
< 1252761290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The window shadow should do that.
< 1252761292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does anyone else find typical Windows machines impossibly slow to use just after they've booted
< 1252761295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not how the human eye works
< 1252761297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you have to get up and do something else
< 1252761299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not Windows 7
< 1252761304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bogged down XP systems, yes
< 1252761317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing boots up fast once the BIOS hands control
< 1252761317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant something else = a book or so, so the monitor isn't in your view at all
< 1252761319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hands over
< 1252761321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1252761321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking Vista running Norton antivirus
< 1252761330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Peripheral vision
< 1252761331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, any luck with cmake?
< 1252761339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the boot's fast; it's just unusable for about 10 minutes after it's booted
< 1252761341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that only goes to ~180 degrees iirc
< 1252761348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 7 is easier on the system than Vista, but what sort of specs has it got?
< 1252761349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you do anything, and you can make a cup of coffee or whatever before it responds
< 1252761353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The culprit is almost certainly Norton, btw
< 1252761357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know, but I doubt they're good
< 1252761366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I mentioned Norton because I thought it was probably responsibel
< 1252761369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*responsible
< 1252761377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows doesn't gracefully degrade; above the minimum hardware it works fine, below that it just crawls
< 1252761378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, plus it isn't xray vision. *imagines big news paper in front of monitor :P
< 1252761380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*
< 1252761381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's never middle ground with windows
< 1252761384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*any middle
< 1252761387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, that's interesting to know
< 1252761388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Still working on it, btw
< 1252761394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it's just my experience
< 1252761397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limited, admittedly
< 1252761399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tallies with mine, too
< 1252761414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES is empty right after setting it unconditionally
< 1252761420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you have to do something special to reset something?
< 1252761422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I do
< 1252761427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES)
< 1252761428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1252761430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c)
< 1252761452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252761456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Windows also decays a lot quicker than other OSs
< 1252761465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, when it's not decayed, it's faster than other OSs
< 1252761468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get OS decay-over-time at all
< 1252761473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never tried setting it more than once, I would do an else there
< 1252761475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to defy the typical rules of computer physics
< 1252761481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's mainly Windows that does it
< 1252761487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other systems do it, but are so slow you wouldn't notice it
< 1252761498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't noticed any on this system, and it's never been reinstalled
< 1252761500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., if you installed Debian 15 years ago, I doubt it'd still be working over all the upgrades
< 1252761506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been upgraded continuously from Feisty
< 1252761509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try removing the first set to see if anything changes
< 1252761511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Alright
< 1252761513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, Windows seems to decay even if not upgraded, somehow
< 1252761516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just "else"?
< 1252761534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, else (whole whopping condition again)
< 1252761539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252761549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I thought about trying scons for my next C project
< 1252761565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the other hand, from a user point of view, that is even more irritating
< 1252761571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scons is verbose and silly in my experience
< 1252761581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and ignores cflags and such by default
< 1252761590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suggest you try writing a simple shell script that writes out a simple config.mk, which you include in a Makefile
< 1252761592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is irritating when you need -m32 or such to compile something
< 1252761595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you'll be surprised how cleanly and easily it works out
< 1252761597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ no dependencise at all
< 1252761600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dependencies
< 1252761607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, readable/editable Makefiles
< 1252761609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then I will have to handle deps between headers and c files myself
< 1252761618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scons doesn't handle that afaik
< 1252761621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it might
< 1252761629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok, that is a blocker to me
< 1252761632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: makedep
< 1252761634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1252761639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know about such tooks
< 1252761640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tools*
< 1252761640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc has a facility to do what makedep does
< 1252761650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a few lines in a Makefile to have it included and regenerated automatically
< 1252761668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, such a shell + make solution won't win any awards for extreme elegance, but the code will be compact, it'll be fast, and it won't have any dependencies.
< 1252761683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shell scripts won't be fast under cygwin
< 1252761691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scons does header-dependencies completely automatically, I think.
< 1252761693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will be painful to use plain sh
< 1252761694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So what? Everything uses ./configure
< 1252761695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than bash
< 1252761699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, use bash then
< 1252761701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin has bash
< 1252761707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but some systems might not
< 1252761715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah interesting
< 1252761718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, nobody cares about those systems :P
< 1252761750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did it work with just setting that var once?
< 1252761761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ((NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo) OR (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo))
< 1252761763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c)
< 1252761765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : add_definitions(-DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY)
< 1252761767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else ((NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo) OR (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo))
< 1252761768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES)
< 1252761770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif ((NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo) OR (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo))
< 1252761771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :message(FATAL_ERROR "${CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES}")
< 1252761773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no definition before
< 1252761775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1252761776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still empty
< 1252761777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes the conditional
< 1252761779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell
< 1252761787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasal demons
< 1252761791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame them
< 1252761797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably flying out of my nose
< 1252761799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :washing the windows api
< 1252761873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c)
< 1252761875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : add_definitions(-DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY)
< 1252761877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[comments]
< 1252761879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :message(FATAL_ERROR "${CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES}")
< 1252761882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what?
< 1252761883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's empty
< 1252761897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can not possibly explain this...
< 1252761902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasal demosn!
< 1252761904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*demons
< 1252761922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I can in fact
< 1252761928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1252761929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is easy once you read it carefully
< 1252761934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try fixing the typo
< 1252761937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/CR/RC/
< 1252761940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fuck.
< 1252761943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone kill me.
< 1252761956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, this is the problem with we programmers.
< 1252761962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We instantly jump to mystics.
< 1252761965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never considering the obvious.
< 1252761978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try this again.
< 1252761983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when I end up with something weird like that I tend to do copy and paste of variable names to see if there is a hidden typo I can't spot
< 1252762090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck
< 1252762092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURcES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c)
< 1252762095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cmake case insensitive?
< 1252762097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please say yes
< 1252762105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1252762107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't think so
< 1252762107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just re-run it
< 1252762116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1252762121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I think it is insensitive
< 1252762135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, make sure you fix the typo in the if too if it was there
< 1252762140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course
< 1252762148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and every place it may be used
< 1252762154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait, what typo in the if?
< 1252762162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed the one you s///d
< 1252762169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the line I pasted
< 1252762186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, I meant if you typoed the first set as well as the one inside?
< 1252762188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sure
< 1252762200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1252762206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an else now, anyway
< 1252762210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :86%
< 1252762215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well check that one inside the else
< 1252762219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I started it on "I'll just re-run it")
< 1252762227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just making sure you realize how damn slow process spawning is on Windows)
< 1252762234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can do nothing about cygwin being slow
< 1252762240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying :P
< 1252762249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Chrome is so snappy, spawning a process on every tab and all.
< 1252762255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, plus there is a way around it. A horrible way
< 1252762261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user space processes using threads
< 1252762265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a sane idea
< 1252762292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not impossible
< 1252762309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you think about that?
< 1252762381 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.104.238.232 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252762391 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, and just at the crucial moment my internet blinks
< 1252762397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1252762399 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird
< 1252762405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252762420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252762421 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.238.232 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm surprised Chrome is so snappy, spawning a process on every tab and all.
< 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, plus there is a way around it. A horrible way
< 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : user space processes using threads
< 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : not a sane idea
< 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but not impossible
< 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, what do you think about that?
< 1252762429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1252762431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Heh, and just at the crucial moment my internet blinks
< 1252762435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else after that
< 1252762440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was considering that
< 1252762442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would lead to crappiness
< 1252762447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed
< 1252762448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, AnMaster: Bad news.
< 1252762450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It linked, but
< 1252762452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build
< 1252762454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./cfunge.exe
< 1252762455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FATAL: No file provided.
< 1252762457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we unleashed a horror upon the world.
< 1252762458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252762464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm
< 1252762465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is known as "cfunge.exe".
< 1252762470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep horrible
< 1252762474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge -h runs without problems
< 1252762477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for binaries, I don't do linux binaries either
< 1252762479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just source
< 1252762492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to provide binaries, but stopped
< 1252762496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, but there's no single Linux binary format thingy
< 1252762503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure there is, ELF
< 1252762503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also this is a bitch to set up :P
< 1252762504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway
< 1252762509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I run an example?
< 1252762513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure.
< 1252762514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.bf time!
< 1252762519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as well as mycology
< 1252762525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.bf runs
< 1252762541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, need to test mycology, check env variables and path separator especially
< 1252762543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Gasp; it takes around 0.1s total
< 1252762549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the process overhead :P
< 1252762549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does?
< 1252762554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.bf
< 1252762557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252762562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :count.b98 works
< 1252762575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prime.bf works, time for wumpus
< 1252762575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing unexpected if one of them works
< 1252762580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it is
< 1252762582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that would test input
< 1252762585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freakin' thing is running on Windows
< 1252762588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With only minimal patches
< 1252762599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION falls into a pit
< 1252762601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but what I expect is that mycology system info will break
< 1252762604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should bundle Mycology.
< 1252762606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway.
< 1252762609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading it.
< 1252762653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could pastebin the output, might be easiest, I'm used to looking at the output to see the expected or unexpected
< 1252762695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tests/perl.b98 might be good to try too. And tests/sysexec.b98
< 1252762711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tests/testncrsterm.b98 too
< 1252762715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you have a tests/
< 1252762730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well mostly stuff that mycology doesn't test. Sometimes output may be cryptic
< 1252762742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are often comments in the files
< 1252762746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl.b98 just sits there.
< 1252762752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't type anything on the keyboard.
< 1252762754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is perl installed?
< 1252762759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in cygwin
< 1252762760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I check, no.
< 1252762762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix that.
< 1252762768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm still shouldn't hang as such
< 1252762771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1252762785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's _exit failing or something.
< 1252762787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have to debug that
< 1252762817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have no idea, I'll have to test under linux without perl in path
< 1252762840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing stuff.
< 1252762845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah wait, it is the test program that is broken without perl
< 1252762849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endless reflect loop
< 1252762868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought it'd be something like that. ^C worked.
< 1252762900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: perl.b98 works
< 1252762902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi6
< 1252762903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello world!
< 1252762905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1252762906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5934
< 1252762912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, expected
< 1252762919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysexec works
< 1252762940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? hm
< 1252762945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no testncrsterm.
< 1252762952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err wait, that was half written
< 1252762960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so didn't commit yet
< 1252762961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1252762964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigfpe outputs "Finished"
< 1252762994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the ncrs term one is http://pastebin.ca/1563092
< 1252763031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh: TERM failed to load.
< 1252763038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I will be interested in if it does one or more of 1) crashes 2) messes up your terminal 3) fails in some other way
< 1252763039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1252763041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is interesting
< 1252763043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because I'm using cmd.exe, probably.
< 1252763049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a very standard terminal.
< 1252763054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try the Windows port of rxvt that Cygwin has.
< 1252763057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or ncurses wasn't detected at compile time
< 1252763059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-X11)
< 1252763063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252763066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure time
< 1252763066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I doubt it; I have ncurses
< 1252763067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1252763071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the headers too?
< 1252763076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so.
< 1252763079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check.
< 1252763087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does ./cfunge.exe -v
< 1252763088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print
< 1252763090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first line
< 1252763092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be specific
< 1252763101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge.exe not found :P but build/cfunge.exe -v,
< 1252763113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ncurses
< 1252763113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah well right, didn't know what directory you were in
< 1252763115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1252763120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so no ncurses detected
< 1252763122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at packages
< 1252763134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdcurses is more common than ncurses for DOS/Windows, IIRC
< 1252763144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no libncurses-devel.
< 1252763146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cygwin
< 1252763148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you specify ncurses in particular? or just a curses-alike in general?
< 1252763160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cygwin
< 1252763168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I noticed first time
< 1252763168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use the macro provided with cmake to check for it
< 1252763178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CURSES_NEED_NCURSES TRUE)
< 1252763178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : find_package(Curses)
< 1252763180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses even
< 1252763183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, on my copy cygwin building works with no changes
< 1252763185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I needed that for something
< 1252763187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the details
< 1252763188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ccmake like usual
< 1252763190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disable 64-bit cells though
< 1252763197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it means it's currently working very well
< 1252763214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I want to see mycology output though
< 1252763221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, after I recompile
< 1252763224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252763245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'll fix any y-like errors in Mycology, fix all the warnings and tada. Cygwin ready.
< 1252763259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice thing is that cfunge.exe will work as long as you put cygwin1.dll in the same directory.
< 1252763271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's as close to "native" as cfunge'll ever get.
< 1252763280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm wait about perl, it seems E does indeed lock up. Which is not expected
< 1252763283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a bug there
< 1252763331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there are some possible issues in mycology output, possibly some stuff in sysinfo.c needs to be changed
< 1252763367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I mean.
< 1252763462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ncurses again
< 1252763464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :queer
< 1252763482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. check in ccmake for ncurses vars
< 1252763499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they say NOT FOUND there?
< 1252763504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the not found was cached
< 1252763530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should charge for windows cfunge binaries
< 1252763537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would buy them?
< 1252763541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a time consuming process!
< 1252763544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stop interrupting my jokes
< 1252763633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the possible exit codes of perl itself?
< 1252763642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are*
< 1252763653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-255
< 1252763661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok, so no reserved ones
< 1252763663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1252763668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant
< 1252763673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -e 'exit 34;'
< 1252763675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252763683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant for stuff like syntax error and so on
< 1252763685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, USE_NCURSES is on
< 1252763698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try in the advanced list. there should be some path to ncurses library and so on
< 1252763709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It knows where curses is, and ncurses
< 1252763712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_CURSES_LIBRARY /lib64/libcurses.so
< 1252763712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_EXTRA_LIBRARY CURSES_EXTRA_LIBRARY-NOTFOUND
< 1252763712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_FORM_LIBRARY /usr/lib64/libform.so
< 1252763712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_HAVE_CURSES_H /usr/include/curses.h
< 1252763713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not where CURSES_EXTRA_LIBRARY is
< 1252763715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that
< 1252763717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1252763718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that is normal
< 1252763721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got all that bling
< 1252763736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_INCLUDE_PATH /usr/include
< 1252763736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_LIBRARY /lib64/libcurses.so
< 1252763736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_NCURSES_LIBRARY /lib64/libncurses.so
< 1252763740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :follows below that
< 1252763744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here
< 1252763753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_CURSES_H_PATH */usr/include
< 1252763755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_CURSES_LIBRARY */lib/libcurses.dll.a
< 1252763757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_EXTRA_LIBRARY *CURSES_EXTRA_LIBRARY-NOTFOUND
< 1252763758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_FORM_LIBRARY */lib/libform.dll.a
< 1252763760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_HAVE_CURSES_H */usr/include/curses.h
< 1252763761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah, those *
< 1252763761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_INCLUDE_PATH */usr/include
< 1252763763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_LIBRARY */lib/libcurses.dll.a
< 1252763763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newly detected
< 1252763764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_NCURSES_LIBRARY */lib/libncurses.dll.a
< 1252763766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1252763769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just ran c
< 1252763769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so try c again
< 1252763776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and then g to generate again
< 1252763777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252763780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I did before :P
< 1252763782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But okay
< 1252763792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, try it once more just in case...
< 1252763794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did switching to advanced mode detect them or something?
< 1252763802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that wouldn't make sense
< 1252763830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it compiled TERM.c without warnings or errors
< 1252763839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still -ncurses
< 1252763845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm what the hell
< 1252763854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't "TERM failed to load." just mean, like, can't initialize ncurses?
< 1252763864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec
< 1252763879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that or the fingerprint didn't exist
< 1252763886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll install rxvt
< 1252763891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, TERM.c contains a huge ifdef around everything in it
< 1252763910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252763922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try:
< 1252763927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge.exe -f
< 1252763933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if TERM is listed there
< 1252763940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1252763954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then it isn't in the binary, thus ifdefed ouyt
< 1252763956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out*
< 1252763964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know why if ncurses was detected
< 1252763993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you press c again after those * were there? or just g right away?
< 1252764016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some older versions of cmake had some issue with... hm...
< 1252764024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c again, yes.
< 1252764034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, this shouldn't happen then
< 1252764059 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252764062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CHECK_INCLUDE_FILE(term.h HAVE_TERM_H)
< 1252764063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1252764067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is probably cached
< 1252764087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I think part of the "not found" is still cached
< 1252764099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reset everything
< 1252764114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, removed CMakeCache.txt ?
< 1252764128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything in build
< 1252764131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252764131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1252764140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry, I can't make head or tail out of this
< 1252764240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's claerly magi.
< 1252764242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic.
< 1252764244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly.
< 1252764349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes since it works here. Atm I'm fixing the inf loop in perl bug
< 1252764349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Still working on getting cfunge to work? :-P
< 1252764367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252764369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still you could already run it on the main mycology, just not mycoterm
< 1252764401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright.
< 1252764411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It works, just it isn't detecting ncurses.
< 1252764464 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detecting?
< 1252764475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMake fail or #ifdef fail or what?
< 1252764476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252764477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :detecting
< 1252764479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows
< 1252764513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, unable to reproduce it here on linux.
< 1252764524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252764534 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you tend to say that when people do stuff on Windows.
< 1252764537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there a term.h
< 1252764540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /usr/include
< 1252764548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252764552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aha, where is it?
< 1252764561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some directory under /usr/include?
< 1252764562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's anywhere.
< 1252764570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, though.
< 1252764571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses/?
< 1252764573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys/?
< 1252764573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then TERM won't work, term.h is here a part of ncurses
< 1252764586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses/term.h
< 1252764592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that exists?
< 1252764597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252764630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I only have term.h in /usr/inclyde
< 1252764633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include*
< 1252764636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inclyde!
< 1252764649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm installing vi now so I can tell you what's in there.
< 1252764656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, vim.
< 1252764656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the wide char /usr/include/ncursesw/term.h
< 1252764665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No widechar on Cygwin.
< 1252764672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hasn't been ported, etc.
< 1252764674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252764690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well did you say /usr/include/ncurses/term.h exists?
< 1252764691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /*
< 1252764693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ** term.h -- Definition of struct term
< 1252764695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */
< 1252764696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah?
< 1252764706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looks right
< 1252764712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue is, where to check for it
< 1252764717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CHECK_INCLUDE_FILE(term.h HAVE_TERM_H)
< 1252764718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works here
< 1252764719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CHECK_INCLUDE_FILE(term.h HAVE_TERM_H)
< 1252764721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1252764724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it have multiple entries?
< 1252764726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like
< 1252764728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHECK_INCLUDE_FILE(term.h HAVE_TERM_H)
< 1252764729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, trying to remember
< 1252764731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CHECK_INCLUDE_FILE(ncurses/term.h HAVE_TERM_H)
< 1252764737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or
< 1252764739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1252764741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to know which one
< 1252764742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So
< 1252764744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it separatel
< 1252764746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1252764747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do an OR
< 1252764750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it will need adjustment in the C file too
< 1252764755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1252764822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmer's notepad has a neat feature where if you select something, it highlights all the occurrences in the file of that term
< 1252764825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I've used it, but
< 1252764871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -DCURSES_TERM_HEADER=foo or a -D for each one?
< 1252764880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. #include CURSES_TERM_HEADER or an ifdef
< 1252764885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ifdef is more conventional but more work
< 1252764886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm writing a check atm
< 1252764894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But so am I :P
< 1252764929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1252764963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an elseifdef?
< 1252764980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, don't need it
< 1252765003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Patch done.
< 1252765009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just results in
< 1252765010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, done too
< 1252765011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef TERM_H_IN_NCURSES
< 1252765013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# include
< 1252765015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else
< 1252765017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# include
< 1252765018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif
< 1252765020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is better :-P
< 1252765025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hey, how did you copy my name for that
< 1252765026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly
< 1252765028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252765034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exact same C code too
< 1252765038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pastebin the cmake code you did for it
< 1252765041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's identical
< 1252765081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1563129
< 1252765100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yours is better. But I used HAVE_NCURSES_TERM_H as a name too.
< 1252765110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Push yours and tell me how to pull it?
< 1252765114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't test it, since my system has it in term.h
< 1252765140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec. but you will have to merge since you have locally commited stuff, and it won't let you merge if you have locally uncommited changes
< 1252765150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't it automatically merge?
< 1252765171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, that is what merge does. It just refuses to do a plain pull
< 1252765185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to commit the merge. Hey, hg is even stranger
< 1252765193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's regular
< 1252765201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, committed what I was sitting on
< 1252765203 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both hg and git can do a rebase
< 1252765262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think bzr can too nowdays, haven't tried it though
< 1252765301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering switching to darcs one of these days if it gets faster and starts handling stuff like chmod
< 1252765303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bzr pull btw
< 1252765308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it will remember branch location
< 1252765310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not
< 1252765317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr pull --remember lp:cfunge/trunk
< 1252765319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/cfunge$ bzr pull
< 1252765321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using saved parent location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/main/
< 1252765323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/main/".
< 1252765325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right
< 1252765326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252765329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing what you said.
< 1252765333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the annoying thing about darcs; it isn't production-ready yet, and I fear it never will be
< 1252765334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do the second command
< 1252765338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is /almost/ good enough...
< 1252765346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is my fault when messing with the lp branch after you branched
< 1252765357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've mainly come to appreciate its UI, and chunks are oh-so-good
< 1252765358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr pull --remember lp:cfunge/trunk
< 1252765360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work
< 1252765361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^
< 1252765367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Now if only it had the internal architecture of git
< 1252765377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what I did; merging now
< 1252765384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada.
< 1252765392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. Any conflicts?
< 1252765396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and commit the merge btw
< 1252765401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1252765403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no.
< 1252765403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after fixing conflicts)
< 1252765405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll test this now.
< 1252765406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1252765423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well does ncurses work now? you may need to delete the results from cached checks
< 1252765438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm totally re-cmaking.
< 1252765452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I expect you to sign your own commits with gpg right? ;P
< 1252765456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs
< 1252765473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252765498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But how can you trust my key? Coming within any significant radius of me is dangerous!
< 1252765536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know. :P
< 1252765596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey.
< 1252765598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed a bit.
< 1252765601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NCRS includes term.h
< 1252765605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it does?
< 1252765608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whops *fixes*
< 1252765632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is ncurses.h btw?
< 1252765654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include, and yet ncurses is in /lib.
< 1252765659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then /usr/lib = /lib :-P
< 1252765699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pushed fix for that too
< 1252765735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no revisions to pull
< 1252765781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: .
< 1252765793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh sorry, I think launchpad has a cache delay
< 1252765809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try again in a few minutes
< 1252765820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame
< 1252765825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed
< 1252765854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, github doesn't have any caches or delays or anything, and I'm sure launchpad isn't much more popular
< 1252765857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe bzr just sucks a lot :P
< 1252765868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StorageTek_tape_formats
< 1252765877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A terabyte tape on one reel. Holy fuck!
< 1252765881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :62s load time :P
< 1252765907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It costs $37,000 apparently.
< 1252765929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: still not through
< 1252765936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm
< 1252766016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 62s load time :P <-- that is quite a bit. What about speed once it is loaded?
< 1252766027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTFA
< 1252766069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you sure you pushed it?
< 1252766073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the trunk?
< 1252766094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep. But indeed the delay is longer than usual
< 1252766114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I just checked with the http url myself, I see the change there now, sure it isn't some isp cache?
< 1252766125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https*
< 1252766131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using http.
< 1252766131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or http
< 1252766132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252766138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I see it for both
< 1252766174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\
< 1252766176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1252766186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I guess isp cache, wait a few more minutes?
< 1252766192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my isp doesn't cache
< 1252766197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252766201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd then
< 1252766290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally.
< 1252766291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there it is.
< 1252766293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*There
< 1252766309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right
< 1252766313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build time.
< 1252766346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and then pastebin mycology output
< 1252766364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh as well as testing if that ncrsterm test program works
< 1252766395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The reason I ask is for readability reasons I'd prefer long names" // god, I hate this reasoning
< 1252766429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :directories(), or dirs() if the surrounding code handles directories a lot, is so, so superior to GetDirectoryList() or whatever
< 1252766478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should default USE_64BIT to off for 32-bit machines
< 1252766479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1252766481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit compiles
< 1252766500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1252766516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a 32-bit funge should use its native, fast integer type?
< 1252766525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The reason I ask is for readability reasons I'd prefer long names" // god, I hate this reasoning <-- where is that from
< 1252766535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I work for Microsoft as a developer, and worked on Vista and Windows 7. AMA."
< 1252766535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok.
< 1252766548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy who made me remove a link to pirate windows 7 with his ":-("
< 1252766550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252766564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 64 bit is a good default to make funge programs not assume that everything is 32-bit
< 1252766568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: guess what
< 1252766570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find more bugs
< 1252766571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERM doesn't compile cleanly
< 1252766576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? what error?
< 1252766579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's a good implementor's default
< 1252766586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good user's default; after all, you claim cfunge is fast
< 1252766596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid lvalue in assignment at line 172
< 1252766598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take a look
< 1252766599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm even 64-bit one beats ccbi iirc
< 1252766614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? :P
< 1252766618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cur_term = NULL;
< 1252766619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252766623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that microoptimization is going to waste
< 1252766625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is cur_term for you then
< 1252766645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's before that
< 1252766647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid cpp shit
< 1252766660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't you say 172?
< 1252766673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp gets it wr ong sometimes
< 1252766676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252766678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what line is it
< 1252766690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait.
< 1252766692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is that line
< 1252766694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm
< 1252766696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern NCURSES_EXPORT_VAR(TERMINAL *) cur_term;
< 1252766704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here in /usr/include/term.h
< 1252766715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncwrap_cur_term()
< 1252766727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1252766729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1252766730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you should just remove that NULL assignment
< 1252766732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't needed is it?
< 1252766742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it will break other stuff badly on linux
< 1252766748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1252766749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, mycology's TERM and NCRS test
< 1252766754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1252766756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it results in segfault
< 1252766772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, NCRS and TERM interacts badly unless you take some weird steps
< 1252766774 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252766776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The del_curterm routine frees the space pointed to by oterm and makes
< 1252766778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it available for further use. If oterm is the same as cur_term, refer-
< 1252766780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ences to any of the terminfo boolean, numeric, and string variables
< 1252766781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : thereafter may refer to invalid memory locations until another se-
< 1252766782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tupterm has been called.
< 1252766785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: seems like setting it to NULL doesn't help
< 1252766790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :officially, it can still be random memory
< 1252766801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes it helps, because that makes other stuff re-initialise it
< 1252766816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also, the cur_term itself is a pointer.
< 1252766830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cite where POSIX requires cur_term to be an lvalue
< 1252766832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue is, if it isn't NULL, then ncurses thinks it is valid
< 1252766836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least here
< 1252766883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no idea if it does. I used man pages for this stuff I think
< 1252766927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, setting it to NULL isn't an option and obviously a conditional hack isn't preferable
< 1252766931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure it breaks if you remove that line?
< 1252766940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thing is, find another solution that works when del_curterm() doesn't set cur_term to NULL, and when ncurses itself only re-initialises it if it is NULL
< 1252766962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also, yes, but let me double check it
< 1252766963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Force re-initialization
< 1252767043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maintain local state, and if that local state says need reinit, do so
< 1252767045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep it does break. as for forcing that...
< 1252767069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't that easy. because the state that gets messed up is inside ncurses itself.
< 1252767085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like ncurses is broken
< 1252767103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it have a function for this sort of stuff
< 1252767149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well alternative is to not delete the term at all, and get a ~2 kb memory leak every time a NCRS function is called
< 1252767161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free(cur_term)
< 1252767175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil? Yes. Might work? Youbetcha.
< 1252767220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that will leave it returning a broken pointer which will also result in the same issue. Plus that cur_term is here a struct containing pointers, so there will be more mem leak
< 1252767224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and various other things
< 1252767228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well hm
< 1252767234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look
< 1252767236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does removing that line work for you though?
< 1252767241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses must have a dowhatyoudoifitisnull()
< 1252767247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, #ifndef __CYGWIN__
< 1252767256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to avoid that
< 1252767275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not supposed to mix ncurses and lower-level stuff
< 1252767290 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's understandable that it doesn't always work
< 1252767298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed, so I would recommend not testing TERM and NCRS in the same mycology test
< 1252767309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noo
< 1252767311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like evil
< 1252767316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They work for me on both Linux and Windows
< 1252767350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Without any cur_term hackery)
< 1252767362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and it didn't for me.
< 1252767387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It?
< 1252767398 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you've tried the CCBI2 impl
< 1252767399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, TERM followed by NCRS as in mycoterm
< 1252767404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it
< 1252767465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does cfunge do the hacks?
< 1252767485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... because otherwise it segfaults at mycoterm.b98
< 1252767506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fix that
< 1252767513 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252767519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep that is what I did, with cur_term
< 1252767527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you hacked around it
< 1252767545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no fix afaik. As Deewiant said:
< 1252767547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You're not supposed to mix ncurses and lower-level stuff
< 1252767547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's understandable that it doesn't always work
< 1252767564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does ccbi2 do it
< 1252767573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1252767585 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setupterm(null, fileno(stdout), &err);
< 1252767588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putp(enter_ca_mode);
< 1252767596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : putp(exit_ca_mode);
< 1252767596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : reset_shell_mode();
< 1252767607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do that
< 1252767635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, when do you do that?
< 1252767657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First two lines on load, second two lines on unload.
< 1252767689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, reset_shell_mode?
< 1252767692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252767720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, on unload of TERM?
< 1252767731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that doesn't make sense, what if TERM is loaded twice?
< 1252767753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's not done if it's already loaded.
< 1252767754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or loaded, and then copied around with FING or such
< 1252767766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what "unload" is that
< 1252767780 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No more TERM instructions available"
< 1252767826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do you know that? I have no facility for tracking that. I do the relevant commands at exit if TERM was ever initialised
< 1252767845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't fully implemented it myself yet
< 1252767878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently it's just done if TERM is unloaded with ), which is obviously error-prone
< 1252767906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ehird: anyway I have to do some stuff before the shops close, going out for maybe half an hour. cya.
< 1252767958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I have +ncurses now
< 1252767961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try mycology
< 1252767964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the tests
< 1252768005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: incomplete test just clears the screen, I guess that's correct
< 1252768046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows Firewall has blocked some features of cfunge on all public and private networks."
< 1252768051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now I really have to leave. I'll read what you said when I get back. At most half an hour. Probably more like 20 minutes
< 1252768075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I guess it doesn't like it opening a socket and then connecting to it itself :-P
< 1252768089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wants me to grant it permission to talk on the local network :P
< 1252768110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, all GOOD or UNDEF so far
< 1252768111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checking y
< 1252768122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That the system's path separator is /
< 1252768131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That the command-line arguments were: [ "../mycology/mycology.b98" ]
< 1252768142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fail
< 1252768144 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ is
< 1252768149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1252768150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin, man
< 1252768155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right
< 1252768163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't say "LOL C:", that's a translation to /cygdrive/c
< 1252768165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a translation
< 1252768167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid space
< 1252768170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That the environment variables are: [all correct]
< 1252768181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: opening 'mycorand.bf' with i failed
< 1252768183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I should cd
< 1252768354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Seems to have worked thist ime
< 1252768356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this time
< 1252768357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the socket
< 1252768376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1252768379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All GOOD or UNDEF
< 1252768401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology takes ~0.33s total.
< 1252768415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100x worse than on Linux :P
< 1252768419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...more or less.
< 1252768451 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of that time will be spent spawning the two PERL processes
< 1252768457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably
< 1252768475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now mycouser and mycoterm.
< 1252768484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but hello world takes like 0.1s
< 1252768491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it counts the spawning of cfunge itself
< 1252768572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: mycoterm is working, except I didn't get a beep. Then again, I have no audio drivers installed.
< 1252768580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it worked.
< 1252768593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1252768594 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot
< 1252768595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:)
< 1252768611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh god
< 1252768615 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252768642 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, why?
< 1252768650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot on cfunge on windows :-P
< 1252768652 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and you can copy-paste out of it.
< 1252768656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1252768659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252768661 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can indeed
< 1252768674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wonders never cease.
< 1252768686 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Cygwin counts only as half of "on Windows" :-P
< 1252768713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it should be quite easy to run on plain Windows.
< 1252768738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of POSIX assumptions in that code
< 1252768738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to use something other than mmap(), replace the regexp library, and replace the PERL forking with a Windows process spawn.
< 1252768747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that it'd just be a bunch of minor incompatibilities
< 1252768747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace TERM
< 1252768752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace environ
< 1252768758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can get ncurses for windows, no?
< 1252768767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Windows has environment variables
< 1252768768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you can get PDcurses
< 1252768772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh
< 1252768773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough
< 1252768777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't require much changing
< 1252768784 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TERM doesn't use curses
< 1252768796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom.
< 1252768799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess the term.h terminfo stuff is provided by curses these days
< 1252768804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+and
< 1252768818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not provided by PDCurses :-P
< 1252768835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just one fingerprint, though
< 1252768839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bulk of the code is just algorithmic C
< 1252768848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, yep
< 1252768869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, I'd just use ccbi2
< 1252768888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was almost as hard as setting up D :-P
< 1252768895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1252768908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI2 doesn't compile on DMD
< 1252768918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LDC is available for Windows
< 1252768923 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it requires exceptions, which LDC doesn't provide.
< 1252768934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because LLVM doesn't.)
< 1252768936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you use it with? GDC?
< 1252768943 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, wishful thinking
< 1252768956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the moment, I don't use it on Windows. :-P
< 1252768956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't compile it? :P
< 1252768968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean it doesn't provide it ON WINDOWS.
< 1252769008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do indeed.
< 1252769021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does provide exceptions on non-Windows, or at least Linux.
< 1252769051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, I'm 0.0.3 versions behin on git, and yet I can't seem to clone fungot's repository.
< 1252769052 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: though scheme snakes don't have heads and tails. they have no parents ( awwww)
< 1252769057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1252769061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You make me sad, fungot.
< 1252769061 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if i could design one... but ( x y z
< 1252769073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't like the parentheses in Scheme, fungot?
< 1252769082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cold personality.
< 1252769093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: does git clone http://git.zem.fi/fungot.git work for you?
< 1252769174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fatal: http://git.zem.fi/fungot.git/info/refs not found
< 1252769174 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ok. even better, seed it with the quotes, hm ok, well, with fnord comments for obscure parts. then an automatic doc generator will write the software in question
< 1252769180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git version 1.6.0.2.1172.ga5ed0 on Windows
< 1252769187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for me, basically
< 1252769196 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like using fnord comments for obscure parts
< 1252769201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252769219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you write the comments, and then the automatic DOC generator writes the software from it
< 1252769241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice, too
< 1252769338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives cfunge a blanket loophole through the firewall
< 1252769344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1252769360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's already there
< 1252769362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha
< 1252769364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ha
< 1252769406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, cfunge is using up half my CPU even though I've given it full access to THE INTERWEBS
< 1252769445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I broke it by changing the command prefix.
< 1252769458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows-git doesn't have colour :-/
< 1252769478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course
< 1252769480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alignment
< 1252769501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so where are the patches
< 1252769503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so
< 1252769513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, I was going to fix the warnings first.
< 1252769519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good
< 1252769530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, three warnings happen on *nix too
< 1252769553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fungot is continuously using 50% of my CPU.
< 1252769553 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: of course that's not something i want to make sure that it's me and not the number of
< 1252769568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess cygwin is interacting badly with cfunge.
< 1252769587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm very strange
< 1252769587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what's the fungot command to make it say something on IRC?
< 1252769588 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how does that old saw go? benchmarks are good for cardiac stuff ( and burning fat etc) and app, the last one
< 1252769589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :owner
< 1252769609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fungot would be waiting on a socket most of the time
< 1252769610 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i didn't know i scrolled down at all." :) is it the top level, or behavior of the host os.
< 1252769625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i guess is a busyloop in cygwin or something
< 1252769633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1252769635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command?
< 1252769665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember
< 1252769672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try some ul at it to see if it works
< 1252769675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all
< 1252769690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps forehead
< 1252769693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what network/channel is ehird-fungot running on
< 1252769694 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: compare lists exactly how?' you're getting an fnord error, it would've been to have been put to use. and you could possibly use char-whitespace? from r5rs? :)
< 1252769697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot to use its custom prefix...
< 1252769725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: give it time
< 1252769727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it works yet
< 1252769760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did mycorand work?
< 1252769764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252769766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1252769773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252769812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fungot gets stuck after "Looking up your hostname...", I think. I bet it's unix/dos line endings.
< 1252769813 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's what those .s are.
< 1252769815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"^raw" is the repeat-it-rawly command, unless you found it already. And of course with your prefix-char there, and the correct owner-string.
< 1252769815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since irc uses \r\n
< 1252769817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: oic
< 1252769818 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in scheme:
< 1252769829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's not responding to any commands, and outputs:
< 1252769834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAW >>> NOTICE AUTH :*** Looking up your hostname... <<<
< 1252769836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before using 50% CPU
< 1252769840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets connected, though
< 1252769869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's curious.
< 1252769873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does cygwin use \r\n or \n?
< 1252769876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\n
< 1252769878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in filse
< 1252769879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :files
< 1252769881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least
< 1252769885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm maybe it translates somewhere somehow?
< 1252769891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can configure that in setup.exe
< 1252769894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that messes up stuff
< 1252769898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but setting it the other way is bad
< 1252769901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it says "DO NOT DO THIS" for \r\n
< 1252769904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does fungot require \r\n or \n?
< 1252769905 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i just mean ( in a different context.
< 1252769910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic
< 1252769929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one even seemed befunge related
< 1252769961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC-parsing code accepts anything. (Technically, both \r and \n are treated as message-separators, and empty messages are ignored.)
< 1252769999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEARLY IT IS GOVERNMENTAL CONSPIRACY OF ESQ.
< 1252770014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESR you mean
< 1252770019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, anyone got anything other than fungot for me to throw this thing at?
< 1252770020 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: e-mails to his account fnord e-mails to the uni during high school, who cares about repl performance, you want to
< 1252770025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he's too braindead to conspire anything.
< 1252770048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm you should still figure out why fungot fails IMO
< 1252770049 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i rol with it. you can get? the code is fnord compared to 50+ before me. at 11k/ sec
< 1252770061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1252770061 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1252770063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252770072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does it require a vocab file
< 1252770080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but anything else in the meanwhile?
< 1252770083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is ESQ?
< 1252770088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esquire
< 1252770104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it should, although it might get confused if you say its name and it doesn't have one.
< 1252770124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fungot?" "...?"
< 1252770126 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i dont get some practice using these, too.)) the simplest infinite surreal. so many reasons not to use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/ new/ scheme and enter your paste.
< 1252770133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I guess no other interpreter provides FING so you can't trivially check whether it's cfunge or fungot
< 1252770133 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what would make the installation easier.) ( 2 2) x) bug? when i looked at it
< 1252770144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about CCBI?
< 1252770147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it not have FING?
< 1252770149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the simplest infinite surreal - http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1252770149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: If you're going to comment at least say something useful
< 1252770149 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: this one looked like cyrillic but was certainly gibberish in that context. sorry, this is the appropriate one to call
< 1252770159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot perfectly sloganised us
< 1252770160 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ( as well as control codes until you got arithmetic working
< 1252770160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it does not.
< 1252770167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ccbi2?
< 1252770174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't done it yet.
< 1252770185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you *could* try porting rc/funge to windows.
< 1252770187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252770188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so many reasons not to use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/ new/ scheme and enter your paste." is also an amusing verbosity
< 1252770194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'll probably work in cygwin
< 1252770198 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, RC/Funge-98 will have them
< 1252770199 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use that
< 1252770200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does
< 1252770206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think fungot may need a data directory or such
< 1252770207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1252770207 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can do `which fnord echo?'
< 1252770213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not the last time I used it
< 1252770216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok
< 1252770221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: v2 or?
< 1252770228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v1 should be fine too, up to you
< 1252770245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get one RAW line, you should get more, since at that point it's already in the IRC message splitting loop, and any non-interesting-looking message should just be ignored.
< 1252770268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's nice. I don't.
< 1252770274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252770286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does gdb work under cygwin?
< 1252770308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir bin; make and rc funge almost compiles
< 1252770310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dunno.
< 1252770318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to install X shit.
< 1252770320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headers.
< 1252770326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep, it uses them
< 1252770352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Remove WIND and some other shit from the makefile
< 1252770362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURT
< 1252770367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nothing else
< 1252770393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any C++ befunge98 interpreter?
< 1252770394 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252770397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have windows :P
< 1252770399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stinkhorn
< 1252770400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stinkhorn, jitfunge
< 1252770402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252770404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well
< 1252770406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter
< 1252770406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *interpreter*
< 1252770407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jitfunge is C++?
< 1252770410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you could probably literally translate cfunge to C++ relatively quickly
< 1252770411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep
< 1252770421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it uses quite a few C99-isms
< 1252770432 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are all quite easily translated to C++
< 1252770434 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC message parsing loop might end up trapped in a CPU-wasting cycle if the SOCK 'R' keeps returning 0 or some-such. (If it reflects, it'll fail cleanly.) Of course it could fail elsewhere, too; after that "RAW" output it goes through the whole cycle of "if-elseif-else"-chainery to test for commands.
< 1252770439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and some variables collide with c++ keywords and such iirc
< 1252770445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s///
< 1252770447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's easily fixable
< 1252770452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, variable length array?
< 1252770461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyword collisions can be fixed via #define, as long as you don't use the C++ keywords with their C++ meaning too
< 1252770463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and variable length array at end of struct
< 1252770466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252770468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the name
< 1252770474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... flexible array member
< 1252770481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Former is std::vector
< 1252770496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latter is std::vector too, I guess, although I think that should work in C++ as-is
< 1252770504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the syntax won't
< 1252770513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s///
< 1252770528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway what about returning a struct on the stack? constructed in the return
< 1252770528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1252770541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct s;
< 1252770541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC does 0-length arrays as a GNU extension probably in C++ mode too, and those are pretty identical to flexible array members.
< 1252770544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s.foo = bar;
< 1252770545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return s;
< 1252770552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return (struct foo) { .x = blah, .y = whatever };
< 1252770557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s///
< 1252770560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, allocated on the stack
< 1252770568 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what I just ddid.
< 1252770570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-d
< 1252770574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm
< 1252770578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddi?
< 1252770599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That is pure syntax sugar.
< 1252770602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and &((struct foo) { .x = blah, .y = whatever }) ?
< 1252770607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well syntax sugar too
< 1252770613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, still, quite a lot of that to translate
< 1252770616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s->foo = bar;
< 1252770619 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s////
< 1252770619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return s;
< 1252770621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :///////////////
< 1252770625 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :///////////////////g
< 1252770629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
< 1252770631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1252770633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-length arrays are rather useless when you have flexible array members
< 1252770634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the last one was for use in function calls
< 1252770635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MANY FUCKING FORWARDSLASHES, IT CAN PORT ANY CODEBASE
< 1252770650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfunge.c:173: error: conflicting types for 'New_Window'
< 1252770652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge.h:407: error: previous declaration of 'New_Window' was here
< 1252770654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat for 394857349573495 types
< 1252770656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy
< 1252770664 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You shouldn't be compiling xfunge.c at all
< 1252770670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why nt
< 1252770672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not
< 1252770673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it
< 1252770675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PREFIX INT New_Window(INT x,INT y,INT wd,INT h);
< 1252770677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-.h
< 1252770680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about the restrict keyword?
< 1252770686 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well if you do, I won't stop you :-P
< 1252770690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Remove it, it's just optimization.
< 1252770693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int New_Window(INT x,INT y,INT wd,INT h)
< 1252770696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-.c
< 1252770700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm true
< 1252770700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM MOST CONFUSED
< 1252770707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe int != INT
< 1252770711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe... right.
< 1252770711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe PREFIX = ???
< 1252770711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, isn't there some difference for const or so iirc?
< 1252770726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh there are plenty of casts that C++ won't like iirc
< 1252770728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define INT int32_t
< 1252770731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be fine
< 1252770734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or rather, no casts
< 1252770739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in front of all malloc()
< 1252770743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PREFIX is extern if not MAIN, but main
< 1252770749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION defines INT as int
< 1252770780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/sgnl.c: In function `signalHandler':
< 1252770782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/sgnl.c:70: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
< 1252770791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (info != NULL) Push(vMach,info->si_pid);
< 1252770793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1252770801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :info is a struct siginfo *
< 1252770810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems very platform-specific there
< 1252770834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh
< 1252770836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not, it does seem specced.
< 1252770837 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252770838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i just get an rc funge that works
< 1252770840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : should define it though.
< 1252770847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Remove the shit from the makefile.
< 1252770850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least pull in something that contains a definition.
< 1252770851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it includes that
< 1252770853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I done told ya.
< 1252770882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/rexp.c: In function `Do_REXP':
< 1252770884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/rexp.c:67: error: `REG_EEND' undeclared (first use in this function)
< 1252770886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/rexp.c:67: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
< 1252770888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/rexp.c:67: error: for each function it appears in.)
< 1252770889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/rexp.c:71: error: `REG_ESIZE' undeclared (first use in this function)
< 1252770891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't do without rexp...
< 1252770918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need REXP, do you?
< 1252770927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1252770928 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mobile in the moment. wheee, shiny.')
< 1252770929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude
< 1252770931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore list
< 1252770938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need that
< 1252770940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude
< 1252770942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it run without it
< 1252770944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUDE
< 1252770950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at the code it should
< 1252770950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fungot shouldn't crash without it, but I probably haven't tested it.
< 1252770951 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no wonder this takes two hours. afterwards i was not pleased.
< 1252770952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D00D
< 1252770965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude
< 1252770970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Or maybe not, it does seem specced. <-- yep
< 1252770970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What exactly are you talking about there.
< 1252770971 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what did i do an iterative deepening minimax search with alpha-beta pruning. it's almost tragic. typical.
< 1252770972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like whooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
< 1252770972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked
< 1252770980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: sounds interesting
< 1252770980 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i usually have used fnord
< 1252770993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here are the facts, fungot did an iterative deepening minimax search with alpha-beta pruning
< 1252770995 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it is the common lisp compiler, traditionally ( and still know a lot of php work
< 1252770999 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iterative deepening minimax with alpha-beta pruning > fnord
< 1252771001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes almost two hours, and he's unhappy with it
< 1252771004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very unhappy with it
< 1252771008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway si_pid is valid
< 1252771010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I hope it isn't literal
< 1252771010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says POSIX
< 1252771030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX says a lot of things that aren't so
< 1252771065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure they are, in the same place that your ponies are from
< 1252771197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP
< 1252771208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XWIN OH GOD
< 1252771237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of POSIX, my only pulls in the siginfo_t type if __USE_POSIX is on. Of course that normally is.
< 1252771262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHEW
< 1252771274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, feature testing macros I assume
< 1252771372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you ok/
< 1252771389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, my computer wasn't for a second
< 1252771404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what OS are you on at the moment, by the way?
< 1252771405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have been a bit overdramatic :P
< 1252771407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1252771409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Windows 7
< 1252771413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252771416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtualised?
< 1252771420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, real
< 1252771427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it dual-boot, or the only OS on there?
< 1252771432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a console window kept trying to open up, claiming to be xwin, and warping the pointer
< 1252771434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then closing immediately
< 1252771436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again and again and again
< 1252771441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D
< 1252771443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dual-boot; the other OS is OS X
< 1252771530 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meddle not in the affairs of X-Windows, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
< 1252771553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YARR I BE CYGWIN/X
< 1252771565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GON DUN SHIT ALL O'ER YER PEECEE
< 1252771581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is why it's being uninstalled as we speak.
< 1252771625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know of /any/ Windows software which manages to stay reasonably confined to where it ought to be, and uninstalls correctly?
< 1252771632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes
< 1252771649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting
< 1252771652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Chrome, PuTTY, Sumatra PDF, Foxit Reader, um... most things
< 1252771657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't hard to make, so I assume that there are marketing reasons not to
< 1252771664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use the system-wide add/remove thingy and it works fine
< 1252771672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although generally there's some empty registry keys left, who cares
< 1252771677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... allegedly Chrome has some sort of obnoxious auto-auto-update
< 1252771692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of
< 1252771718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it installs updates automatically, I think
< 1252771721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and patches the app in real time
< 1252771722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however
< 1252771730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alternative is it bugging you, and you clicking yes blanketly
< 1252771732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you always do
< 1252771734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's just an annoyance
< 1252771740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't think any security is lost
< 1252771747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can switch to tracking the beta, etc, in a few clicks
< 1252771753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252771754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite cool really
< 1252771765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's a very good browser
< 1252771765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows suffers from not having a consistent update mechanism
< 1252771780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Windows has its installing mechanism right, actually
< 1252771792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repositories are just too big to maintain yet they'll never be big enough
< 1252771797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1252771802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as you can register a program for uninstalling
< 1252771808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to, with the same system, register it for updating
< 1252771833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a few functions you define and you can look for the updates and install them however you want
< 1252771842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then windows can coordinate updates of all the software you have
< 1252771931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, cygwin sucks
< 1252771952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fixed those warnings yet?
< 1252771955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll fix all the warnings in cfunge, and
< 1252771957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1252771963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know there's one for almost every file right?
< 1252772009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop, I wasn't aware, oh and there are three you shouldn't spent time on:
< 1252772015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/lib/genx/genx.c: In function ‘storePrefix’:
< 1252772015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/lib/genx/genx.c:386: warning: cast discards qualifiers from pointer target type
< 1252772015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/lib/genx/genx.c: In function ‘declareAttribute’:
< 1252772015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/lib/genx/genx.c:978: warning: cast discards qualifiers from pointer target type
< 1252772016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/src/input.c: In function ‘input_getint’:
< 1252772019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/src/input.c:104: warning: cannot optimize possibly infinite loops
< 1252772021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those
< 1252772044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/src/input.c:104: warning: cannot optimize possibly infinite loops"
< 1252772051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread that as "cannot possibly optimize infinite loops"
< 1252772057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252772058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same first time I saw it
< 1252772098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great, a C++ app that only fail if compiled without -g at -O2 or higher
< 1252772099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.info-pack.com/csv2html/ ...
< 1252772108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is very slow with less than -O2
< 1252772114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: only $49.95
< 1252772119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is fast until the point of failure at -O2 or higher
< 1252772126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is a game, so speed matters
< 1252772127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Represents great value!
< 1252772137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: should i bother fixing warnings in libs?
< 1252772145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on what warnings
< 1252772158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also be aware of that those file may have different code formatting.
< 1252772169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted to keep it easy to update
< 1252772178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/Elliott/cfunge/lib/genx/genx.c:358: warning: implicit declaration of function `snprintf'
< 1252772189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/Elliott/cfunge/lib/genx/genx.c:358: warning: nested extern declaration of `snprintf'
< 1252772195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err, how the helll
< 1252772197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell*
< 1252772199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0: warning: redundant redeclaration of 'snprintf'
< 1252772205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/Elliott/cfunge/lib/genx/genx.c:386: warning: cast discards qualifiers from pointer target type
< 1252772209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance.
< 1252772214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, needs fixing, but I have no idea why the snprintf happens
< 1252772217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the cast one
< 1252772218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore it
< 1252772220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said above
< 1252772222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an error in is pretty weird
< 1252772225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^
< 1252772227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ignore it?
< 1252772239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it is a known false positive
< 1252772242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I listed above
< 1252772249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lib errors are useful to know about simply because they sometimes imply you're building it wrong
< 1252772259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is no sane way to fix it without rewriting genx completely
< 1252772275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build
< 1252772276 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explicit cast?
< 1252772277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cpp | grep snprintf
< 1252772278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include
< 1252772280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int __attribute__((__cdecl__)) snprintf (char *, size_t, const char *, ...) __attribute__ ((__format__ (__printf__, 3, 4)));
< 1252772281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am bewildered
< 1252772292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but AnMaster
< 1252772298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many implicit declarations, does it matter?
< 1252772299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works fine
< 1252772304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes, issue is both const char* and char* goes into the same place, but it keeps track of const-ness in another way
< 1252772320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the errors make no sense
< 1252772324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep it will if you aren't on 32-bit at least
< 1252772327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and agreed
< 1252772341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check if they are protected by some #ifdef that may fail in the header
< 1252772349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feature testing macro not working
< 1252772367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_definitions(-D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112L -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600)
< 1252772369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have that
< 1252772420 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252772428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blh
< 1252772442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: should I give you what I have so far, btw?
< 1252772461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. push the branch somewhere, that is easiest.
< 1252772468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where.
< 1252772480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you have any plain http server still?
< 1252772513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with sftp access to?
< 1252772526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build
< 1252772528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bzr send --mail-to anmaster@tele2.se
< 1252772530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using saved parent location "http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/trunk/" to determine what changes to submit.
< 1252772531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bundling 11 revision(s).
< 1252772533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 [main] python 2140 C:\cygwin\bin\python.exe: *** fatal error - unable to remap C:\cygwin\bin\cygbz2-1.dll to same address as parent(0x750000) != 0x7F0000
< 1252772534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252772534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 [main] python 3820 fork: child 2140 - died waiting for dll loading, errno 11
< 1252772536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr: ERROR: [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable
< 1252772537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1252772537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that worked.
< 1252772541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries -o instead
< 1252772558 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably non-Cygwin bzr
< 1252772571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what base revision?
< 1252772590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know when you branched off mine, and since you merged some stuff from mine
< 1252772593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, 781
< 1252772594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about:
< 1252772598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rtag:0.9.0
< 1252772603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing
< 1252772617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bundling 0 revisions
< 1252772619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252772622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err
< 1252772626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rtag:0.9.0..
< 1252772630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work better
< 1252772632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to mention that
< 1252772648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. for range there, and no end given, so that is head
< 1252772653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using saved submit location "781" to determine what changes to submit.
< 1252772655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/Elliott/cfunge/build/781/".
< 1252772657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO YOU REMEMBER MY MISTAKES
< 1252772659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1252772663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D
< 1252772702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because you used --remember ?
< 1252772707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it doesn't unless you use that
< 1252772708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1252772741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well make such a file then, just tell it somewhere else
< 1252772789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lost a key
< 1252772794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm?
< 1252772799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally
< 1252772801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, keyboard broke?
< 1252772824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i popped o a keycap and it ell down below
< 1252772836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why did you pop one off?
< 1252772841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the f one I assume
< 1252772852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pop a less useful one off and put it on the f
< 1252772860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i have no idea.
< 1252772864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm
< 1252772883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :search for it them
< 1252772884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then*
< 1252772896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it has to be on the floor
< 1252772911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i produced an r by pressing down a thing on its dome
< 1252772912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was one keycap I vacuumed off something like four times, for some reason never remembering not to try it again and again.
< 1252772921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am ailure personiied
< 1252772974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sign o lost key
< 1252772974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, search on the floor?
< 1252772977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252772989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check if it fell into pockets or such
< 1252772989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keycap thieves strike agian.
< 1252772991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am
< 1252772993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A giant.
< 1252772998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure it isn't on the floor?
< 1252773011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taken by magic.
< 1252773012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about chair then?
< 1252773019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you are sitting on it
< 1252773030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myth busted
< 1252773042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you ate it and didn't notice?
< 1252773048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible
< 1252773050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happens all the time!
< 1252773054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally
< 1252773063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was saving it or lunch
< 1252773103 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252773159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any luck with that send?
< 1252773200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind o ucking priority is getting my key back
< 1252773221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
< 1252773225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my small inger is small
< 1252773228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story.
< 1252773232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finger
< 1252773234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaaaaaay
< 1252773238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffffffffffffinger
< 1252773242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small inger.
< 1252773275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you found they key?
< 1252773284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffffffffffffffffffffffffffff no just my inger.
< 1252773289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252773297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why so many repeats?
< 1252773315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inger hard tog eto ut
< 1252773320 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1252773323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252773340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finger hard to get out fudge foodle fffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
< 1252773343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch.
< 1252773476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckin a
< 1252773480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fuckin found
< 1252773481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fing f
< 1252773484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i could eat a sound
< 1252773490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where was it?
< 1252773525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next to wall.
< 1252773542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252773567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, make bzr forget
< 1252773667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some file in ~/.bazaar/ I guess
< 1252773691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build
< 1252773693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bzr send -rtag:0.9.0.. .. -o changes
< 1252773695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bundling 0 revision(s).
< 1252773769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, i have no http server
< 1252773781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm
< 1252773790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, let me look at send docs
< 1252773846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252773887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me, except not like that
< 1252773890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop the r bit
< 1252773891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1252773904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how do you set branch to compare tpo
< 1252773905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to*
< 1252773926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr: ERROR: no such option: -t
< 1252773944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr send -o testing_send lp:cfunge/trunk
< 1252773945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so
< 1252773946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1252773949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone
< 1252774055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emailed.
< 1252774472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a break to try and figure out how to do the gui for his pdf client
< 1252774483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1252774497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads mail client
< 1252774510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1252774511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet
< 1252774537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc is rebuilding, wait a few minutes
< 1252774544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah not even that long
< 1252774546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you crazy source distro people
< 1252774578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1252774583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that send doesn't include the revision history
< 1252774584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it?
< 1252774610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks
< 1252774648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nop
< 1252774663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange
< 1252774747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could push it to launchpad ;P
< 1252774766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i make an account
< 1252774768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I think the mail is cut off
< 1252774786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it ends in the middle of the bundle itself
< 1252774790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252774801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a diff first, then the bundle
< 1252774827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bundle is two lines, way to short
< 1252774837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to short circuit.
< 1252774839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway.
< 1252774842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Launchpad account.
< 1252775019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, go to the main website, click in upper right corner login, then there is a create account on the same page
< 1252775020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1252775041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Follow the URL in the confirmation e-mail that Launchpad sends and you're done!
< 1252775047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know they're going to pick a password for me.
< 1252775051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it when websites do that.
< 1252775067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you need to paste an ssh key into your account to make pushing work
< 1252775069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The email address penguinofthegods@gmail.com is already registered in the Launchpad Login Service (used by the Ubuntu shop and other OpenID sites). Please use the same email and password to log into Launchpad.
< 1252775075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck off, i don't remember that account.
< 1252775084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1252775087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the email is the account btw
< 1252775092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :launchpad is still hypocritical
< 1252775101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suure, you can use it as an openid and base your entire online identity around it
< 1252775105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but LOG IN with one of those things?
< 1252775108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no no no NO!
< 1252775119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc it is a planned feature
< 1252775124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: great, so i'm the tired joke penguinofthegods
< 1252775127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of, you know, ehird
< 1252775134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this just gets better and better
< 1252775144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, you own that email?
< 1252775156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm ... yes?
< 1252775158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you saying you don't
< 1252775160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cool
< 1252775166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that cool
< 1252775170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool email I mean
< 1252775186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the background is almost like a joke if you don't think about it too much
< 1252775261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcc
< 1252775273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you tell bzr about your login:
< 1252775278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcc
< 1252775281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr launchpad-login
< 1252775289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcc
< 1252775291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err a sec, I need to change irc client
< 1252775293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for dcc to work
< 1252775310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there
< 1252775312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try now
< 1252775334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that file btw?
< 1252775350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr send
< 1252775360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252775410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, a large bundle at the end
< 1252775417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess that contains revisions.
< 1252775421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it does
< 1252775497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merged into a branch, have to review it. a bit short on time right now, but at the very least I should have time tomorrow, but probably later this evening
< 1252775527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you didn't clean up getaddrinfo it seems, I guess I'll have to do it myself
< 1252775535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1252775539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's work in progrses
< 1252775542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warnings are still there too
< 1252775547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just sending you what i have so far
< 1252775551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*progress
< 1252775554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason it's on a branch
< 1252775789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1252776335 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252776570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1252776811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: you sent me off on a wild goose chase WinForming until I realized you need to use DLLs to interface .NET with native code :(
< 1252776818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I want one executable)
< 1252776848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing really wrong with DLLs, especially if you don't try to share them
< 1252776858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards the end of my Windows days, I used them to cut down on recompile times
< 1252776902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but I'm a minimalist; I much prefer sanepdf.exe to sanepdfnative.dll and sanepdf.exe
< 1252776920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, I don't want to cut down on files; I just don't want to separate files that will never be used separately
< 1252776925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can pack a .dll with an .exe
< 1252776935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if .NET will let you interface with that, somehow
< 1252776964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my guess is no without recompiling .net
< 1252776972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Microsoft won't let you do that
< 1252776979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows has in-file resources, which have file paths, no?
< 1252776984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how applications embed icons and stuff
< 1252776989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they have resources, but not paths
< 1252776989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you could use that as the path to a dll
< 1252776992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, used not to
< 1252776998 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252776998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a command that blits a resource to memory
< 1252777001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's about it
< 1252777003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's all you need, really
< 1252777016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omega!
< 1252777031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WinForms does seem like the best windows gui platform though
< 1252777042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, using a resource via the win32 API was really annoying
< 1252777060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had to get a pointer to the thing that held the resources
< 1252777062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there may not be a unique simplest one
< 1252777064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then get a pointer to the resource itself
< 1252777066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then lock the memory
< 1252777070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1252777083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you had to unlock again when you were done
< 1252777086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the simplest surreal between any two infinite ones may not be infinite
< 1252777088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and then free the memory
< 1252777097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the allocate-the-memory step there
< 1252777114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, huh?
< 1252777125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: do you know anything about whether you can use .NET to bind to a .dll that you stuffed in the .exe, WINDOWS LACKEY?!
< 1252777134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a fungot quote, btw
< 1252777135 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you mean ( define p ( make-point 3 5) instead of ( x,y)
< 1252777149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I interpreted it as being the simplest [languages] that are infinitely surreal
< 1252777157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except we kinda cover more than languages nowadays
< 1252777162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah i found it
< 1252777180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although intuitively omega is simplest somehow...
< 1252777190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the topic
< 1252777208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh that
< 1252777213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, something fungot said
< 1252777214 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he's the person i work with that
< 1252777229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: your IRC style has always been the best. all the rest suck.
< 1252777230 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i guess, i'll put some songs on p2p networks for a song with " love" in the first argument may be recurring from some time i added a check for 2.56 on the way
< 1252777238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: so you think you can work me, heh?
< 1252777239 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey gregor btw, it's not
< 1252777264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good topic
< 1252777269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's inspired discussion, after all
< 1252777298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, are there any surreal esolangs?
< 1252777302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURKEY BOMB comes to mind
< 1252777307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SARTRE almost fits, but not really
< 1252777327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh
< 1252777339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the persistence of memory
< 1252777340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language
< 1252777350 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252777355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execution is segmented into ticks, which are unpredictable
< 1252777360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you forget variables
< 1252777433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Magritte, a surreality tarpit
< 1252777464 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You can interface with native code via P/Invoke, if it's already in a DLL
< 1252777493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Yes, I know that much
< 1252777500 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if it's not in a DLL, I think you can either use C++/CLI and ILMerge or something less C++y
< 1252777509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: What if I want to pack the DLL into my .NET .exe?
< 1252777516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And access that SOMEHOW.
< 1252777551 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Data.SQLite does it.
< 1252777558 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how, it's kind of voodoo, I think.
< 1252777564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like voodoo.
< 1252777577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's surprising, actually, that the only "official" C++ option is MFC.
< 1252777589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, fucking MFC. It's 2009. Like every single Windows app is written in C++.
< 1252777594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they want you to use MFC.
< 1252777608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MFC is possibly the only API worse than Win32
< 1252777630 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MFC is bad. I haven't used ATL or WTL, but I think it's better.
< 1252777658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current considerations at the moment are WTL, Win32, WinForms.
< 1252777660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: darn MIB were earlier than i thought ;D
< 1252777686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually if Win32 has a graphical GUI designer I might consider it.
< 1252777687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "earlier than i thought"?
< 1252777687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, i mean, there is no such thing as MIB
< 1252777690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Visual Studio has that?
< 1252777702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was there something on the forum predicting this or what?
< 1252777706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er, older, maybe
< 1252777713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ?
< 1252777717 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It has a dialog designer, but not a proper GUI designer
< 1252777724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Azstal is here
< 1252777724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Do you feel like fixing a bug in Stinkhorn?
< 1252777731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh
< 1252777733 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually, it probably has an MFC designer
< 1252777733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he POUNCES
< 1252777745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Erm, you mean Visual Studio in general?
< 1252777745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: good grief. i mean i did not think MIB existed back in the 17th century.
< 1252777747 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: which one?
< 1252777752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah
< 1252777757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: What do people use for WinForms then?
< 1252777770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: This is all very surprising to me. Everything seems to suck. But this is the most popular platform.
< 1252777779 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: I mean for Win32, it has a dialog designer but no real GUI designer. For WinForms, there's a `proper' GUI designer
< 1252777781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, everything really, really sucks in unfixable ways. What's up with that
< 1252777791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Let's talk to myself
< 1252777797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Sure thing!
< 1252777808 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1252777809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: *``proper'' btw
< 1252777813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get your FQs right
< 1252777832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, rheet <- i have no idea what this is meant to be other than an injoke but it amuses me
< 1252777835 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The WinForms GUI designer uses absolute positioning for most placement of controls
< 1252777842 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rheeeeeeeeet!
< 1252777853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: A program which should run quite quickly infinite-loops; it makes a diagonal line of z pointing upward in negative space and starts moving on it with 101-x
< 1252777864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
< 1252777866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
< 1252777868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw
< 1252777870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no multiline support
< 1252777881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: absolute positioning?
< 1252777883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you fucking serious
< 1252777887 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh no, not a funge-space bug I hope :(
< 1252777893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably simplify it if I cared to
< 1252777894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java-style positioning would work better
< 1252777896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, what the hell am I meant to use? seriously.
< 1252777908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Presumably
< 1252777914 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252777926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Azstal: I mean for Win32, it has a dialog designer but no real GUI designer. For WinForms, there's a `proper' GUI designer <-- like highlighting yourself?
< 1252777928 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Only in WinForms 2.0 did it add a TableLayoutPanel and FlowLayoutPanel and SplitPanel, and they're really awkward to use in the designer
< 1252777934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to make a snappy, simple, native app without too much cruft. on windows. and i want to use native code for at least some parts. and a non-sucky GUI designer would be nice.
< 1252777939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this seriously impossible on windows?
< 1252777949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: old
< 1252777955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep
< 1252777970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's also impossible on linux, so shush you :P
< 1252777976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: I stuck it on http://funge.pastebin.com/f7061c036 if you're interested
< 1252777980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I really like Java's standard libraries
< 1252777984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not on OS X. well, snappy is debatable)
< 1252777985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-simplified version, that.
< 1252777987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was responding to "old"
< 1252777991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity the lang itself is so bad
< 1252777992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not I, they optimise for the uncommon case
< 1252778002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I haven't yet commented on that windows rant
< 1252778005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the expense of the common case
< 1252778006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you mean by "optimise" here? efficiency? or something else?
< 1252778012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: usage
< 1252778026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I still don't know what you mean...
< 1252778044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it just as easy to use uncommon things as common things
< 1252778052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, this means that using common things is verbose and annoying
< 1252778066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you start wishing for a standard library on top of these low-level primitives
< 1252778188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He means "convenience", I think
< 1252778204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalently "ease of use"
< 1252778208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I expect Java to be inconvenient anyway
< 1252778218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the library's problems pale in comparison to the lang's
< 1252778225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't an argument in favour of its standard library
< 1252778266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1252778280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, they have adapter classes, etc, to make it easier to use
< 1252778289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the library is inconvenient to use" "I expect Java to be inconvenient"
< 1252778293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore the library isn't inconvenient
< 1252778294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED
< 1252778299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by comparison
< 1252778332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i want a vector list: a one-dimensional, automatically-resizing, random-access vector that I can sort, access, shuffle, remove from, search, ...
< 1252778339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holding strings
< 1252778346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'mon, show me some example code using that
< 1252778348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists nowadays, I think
< 1252778352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'll laugh at its hideous verbosity
< 1252778357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure ArrayList is it, or close
< 1252778357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, it will
< 1252778359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway
< 1252778360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be verbose
< 1252778362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nowadays"?!?!?!?!?!
< 1252778365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ArrayList is an /implementatino/ of list
< 1252778365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit is fundamental
< 1252778377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the list types do that
< 1252778385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. LinkedList isn't random acecss.
< 1252778388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*access
< 1252778394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it simulates random access if you try, IIRC
< 1252778405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit
< 1252778417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to run off a Java one-liner to test
< 1252778420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then realised that was impossilbe
< 1252778421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, even detaching the APIs from the language - like so many JVM-based languages - they're still inherently verbose
< 1252778422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*impossible
< 1252778432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do anything in one line in java
< 1252778432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't do it in much less than 10 or 12, assuming standard whitespace conventions
< 1252778439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252778460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the main thing the java language and standard library are full of is unnecessary things
< 1252778482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the notion that their idiotic retardation of static typing will help solve bugs and not hinder productivity
< 1252778499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually helps productivity when you have incompetent developers
< 1252778502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- which accounts for over half of the verbosity and awkwardness in the language and library, I estimate
< 1252778505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it really doesn't
< 1252778506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably the most common use-case
< 1252778507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an awful type system
< 1252778520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: besides, incompetent developers can't produce the actual meat code
< 1252778527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it helps them make more valid class skeletons
< 1252778532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee whizz
< 1252778543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... combining code written by two idiots is about 10% likely to work in Java, as opposed to the more usual 1% or so
< 1252778547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I find the nature of a language designed for incompetent developers at the expense of competent ones abhorrent
< 1252778558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :library too
< 1252778584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like things like the automatically resizing window layouts, etc
< 1252778598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swing's theory is okay
< 1252778612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swing's main issue is completely disregarding native conventions
< 1252778612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice it sucks, and I don't use any java applications
< 1252778618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer AWT for that reason
< 1252778620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you can get it to use native widgets these days
< 1252778623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're awful
< 1252778624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1252778630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native widget-alikes, at least
< 1252778637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWT is far too abandoned to be of use in anything but applets
< 1252778639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1252778640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop talking about java
< 1252778642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java sucks
< 1252778644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody should use java
< 1252778644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1252778648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about more interesting things
< 1252778668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: put it this way: I'm fine with you defending Windows, and agree in some cases
< 1252778675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I seem to get clobbered to oblivion when I discuss Java
< 1252778685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: most of my windows-defending is not because i like windows
< 1252778691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, same here
< 1252778693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i merely oppose FUD in all forms
< 1252778703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if someone says something incorrect about windows, i'll correct them
< 1252778705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I defend Windows because I hate incorrect criticisms of it when there are so many correct ones
< 1252778710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much the same reason as you, really
< 1252778751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only bit of windows i'm currently enjoying is the end-user side
< 1252778757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still horrified at the internals
< 1252778774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they made the command-line a lot better with Vista
< 1252778781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, with powershell?
< 1252778792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual cmd.exe is more or less identical
< 1252778814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they reorganised the directory structure to make typing pathnames work better
< 1252778820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes
< 1252778824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, much of the cmd.exe improvements came with XP
< 1252778825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the FS, though
< 1252778838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\Users\Elliott is just far more rational than C:\Documents and Settings\Elliott
< 1252778841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252778862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminded me a lot of "doing the same thing as UNIX, but with different names so it isn't obvious"
< 1252778876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X does the same
< 1252778884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Users" is a more humane name than "home", though
< 1252778893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you think of cmd.exe's tab-complete/
< 1252778913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as good as unix completion
< 1252778914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1252778916 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program Files (x86) is a pain to tab to though :(
< 1252778920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you run bash in it it's okay :-P
< 1252778925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: yah
< 1252778935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the way it guesses when it doesn't have enough information
< 1252778941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this IRC client does that, and it's annoying
< 1252778944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it leads to mispings quite a bit
< 1252778947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tab to cycle through
< 1252778951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't get a directory listing with tab tab
< 1252778956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I know
< 1252778961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're right
< 1252778962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more annoying
< 1252778965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, though, it lacks predictability
< 1252778967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, in Windows 7, WordPad and Paint both adopt the Office look and by implication don a ribbon
< 1252778973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to actually observe the results of your actions
< 1252778975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I knew that
< 1252778976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps subconsciously just to annoy you, I like the new UI of both
< 1252778979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the ribbon work for Paint?
< 1252778986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how many tabs does it have?
< 1252778993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Home and View
< 1252778999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Home should be called Paint
< 1252779017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that doesn't really aid discoverability, which is the whole point of a ribbon
< 1252779020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the in-ribbon organization is good, and Home vs View is just as efficient as a menu
< 1252779025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you see Home by default
< 1252779028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I dislike ribbons because they require more clicks than a toolbar
< 1252779032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's mitigated
< 1252779034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's not the point
< 1252779041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toolbars aren't very usable unless you know them
< 1252779045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're redundant with menus
< 1252779047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably better for new users, until they have practice
< 1252779049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ribbons unify toolbars and menus
< 1252779055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're worse for power users
< 1252779060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree
< 1252779062 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paint's works quite well, better than it does in Office, I'd say.
< 1252779068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general principle, for me, is toolbars for power users once you know them; menus have everything, for discoverability
< 1252779072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for rarer-used things
< 1252779075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a thing to remember is that your subjective experience is almost certainly wrong
< 1252779079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact: why not combine the ribbon and the toolbar?
< 1252779083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would probably work even better
< 1252779086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans disagree with the stopwatch more than not
< 1252779092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, that's what it is
< 1252779097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ribbon replaces both menus and toolbars
< 1252779101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, I mean
< 1252779108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a (auto-collapsing) ribbon
< 1252779110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also a toolbar
< 1252779118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Word does that a bit anyway
< 1252779124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: the ribbon apps are WPF, aren't they?
< 1252779125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with putting the save button outside the ribbon
< 1252779130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell by the gradient look and the font rendering
< 1252779141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw in windows 7, have they finally fixed that weird "can't delete file in use" thing that happened all the time in xp even when no apps were using it
< 1252779142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that defeats the point
< 1252779144 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's an MFC ribbon control
< 1252779148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what is the point/
< 1252779150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dunno
< 1252779151 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Official)
< 1252779156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turned out explorer.exe was holding a spurious handle most of the time
< 1252779158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: but the font rendering
< 1252779159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has all the advantages of a ribbon, and /also/ lets you do common commands in one click
< 1252779179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, you fix that by closing arbitrary explorer windows until the error goes away
< 1252779183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ribbons have almost the efficiency of toolbars and the discoverability and organisation of menus
< 1252779190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mousing over there is always going to be slow
< 1252779191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's that "almost" I disagree with
< 1252779194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really use it so often
< 1252779196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a damn shortcut
< 1252779199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what they're for
< 1252779209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: now you're arguing for Emacs + a ribbon
< 1252779213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mousing over will always be the most expensive part of an operation
< 1252779217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it happened to me with all windows closed anyway
< 1252779217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no
< 1252779222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not arguing FOR a ribbon interface
< 1252779225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the file was on the desktop that time iirc
< 1252779227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252779230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were
< 1252779233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just against arguing against it
< 1252779241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., I think they're rather good as far as current interfaces go
< 1252779246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can still be fast with them if you want
< 1252779255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't be, it rather assumes a working mouse
< 1252779266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :menu > ribbon for speed /and/ discoverability when you don't have one
< 1252779266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean with shortcuts
< 1252779269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know I'm a special case here
< 1252779278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my OS assumes a working display too :P
< 1252779305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(does anyone else here instinctively run through menus from right to left when checking for what commands are on them, because pressing right opens submenus and pressing left doesn't?)
< 1252779314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252779335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err? no?
< 1252779348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: menus large enough for that to be effective are generally hopeless, in my experience
< 1252779355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I know
< 1252779356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tend to use the mouse
< 1252779360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying that programs where you do that are good UI
< 1252779367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for once I'll be actually putting my money where my mouth is and making a program with good UI
< 1252779370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, such programs do exist, and sometimes I end up using htem
< 1252779373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my pdf reader)
< 1252779374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I dislike what I have seen of ribbon interfaces
< 1252779374 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run from right to left typically, don't know if it's for that reason
< 1252779378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I do, I go from right to left
< 1252779378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't used them much
< 1252779379 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: are you sure this program loops? It prints 15 for me
< 1252779392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh, maybe the parameter is too small
< 1252779392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sec
< 1252779401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think the best interface depends a lot on what the program's meant to do
< 1252779413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit sherlock
< 1252779414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, try to design the perfect interface for a stream editor
< 1252779427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it would be a command-line or batch interface, or something more GUIy?
< 1252779430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh, I think that a ribbon is the best thing for e.g. Word
< 1252779434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't ever remove a feature from Word
< 1252779443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to make compromises to be comprehendable in that constraint
< 1252779446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people will yell
< 1252779451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy word users have all the key combinations memorized, anyway
< 1252779462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I used to use a massively customized version of Word
< 1252779468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was younger
< 1252779476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had two toolbars at each side of the screen, three at the top and bottom
< 1252779482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used Word when I was younger... who wants to use Word?
< 1252779484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/and/ a whole load of custom key combinations
< 1252779488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Looks like 62 is the magic number; change the first 1 on the first row to 6a*2+
< 1252779488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet
< 1252779496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I used to have an Opera setup like that
< 1252779503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera seems to have a tendency to... wrap you inside it
< 1252779507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do everything from within in little toolbars
< 1252779508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually got quite good at programming WordBasic, although VBA for Excel was better, so I moved to that after a while
< 1252779512 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: (That's the number of z to put in the diagonal line)
< 1252779512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you're living inside it
< 1252779516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surrounded by buttons and knobs and stuff
< 1252779534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with emacs, I think
< 1252779547 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hmm, 15 then infinite loop, that seems to have done the trick
< 1252779553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1252779556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'll probably be surprised to know that my ideal interface isn't entirely unlike a command line
< 1252779567 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :61 still works fairly instantaneously, 62 doesn't.
< 1252779571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not all that surprised
< 1252779585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm the official defender of mouse-based interfaces!
< 1252779619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... you spend a lot of time arguing that mice are faster
< 1252779625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :untrue
< 1252779640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spend some time arguing that mice can be faster under more circumstances than you may think
< 1252779641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I was going to continue that faster isn't always bette
< 1252779642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*better
< 1252779653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that's true
< 1252779658 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1252779661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can get your task done faster, the computer has done better
< 1252779680 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it seems to be stuck on the "x".. I doubt it helps that the IP's direction is { 0, 0, 0 } :D
< 1252779680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, yes
< 1252779686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in terms of expressibility
< 1252779693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: :-)
< 1252779697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you can't get your task done it takes infinitely long
< 1252779700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's accounted for
< 1252779704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: trefunge?
< 1252779713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, OK; I was using a different speed metric to you
< 1252779715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: I wonder how it manages to get zeroes from 101- :-)
< 1252779729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't get the )
< 1252779731 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Internally, it uses 3-vectors all the time, even for befunge.
< 1252779732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Befunge, but his impl is generic that way
< 1252779735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and isn't the :- just a redundant way to preduce 0?
< 1252779738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: value t such that at time t your task is completed
< 1252779741 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it probably passes over the x again somehow :(
< 1252779743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't do it, t=infinity
< 1252779752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right, quite possibly
< 1252779755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it misses the @.
< 1252779757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: which impl?
< 1252779760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::- is identical to drop 0
< 1252779766 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mine, aka. stinkhorn
< 1252779768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I was trying to make a bad joke, interpreting the smiley as Befunge
< 1252779773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252779779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *produce
< 1252779781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not preduce
< 1252779788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, typo
< 1252780098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh
< 1252780113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :winforms, wtl or win32... well wtl isn't really popular or well documented, so not that
< 1252780137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...eh, but win32 doesn't have a gui designer. i guess i'll have to find out how to embed native code in a .net .exe thingy. ho hum.
< 1252780174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have seen win32 GUI designers, but they were truly awful and I did it by hand instead
< 1252780184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't by Microsoft, it was something by Borland
< 1252780217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1252780218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait.
< 1252780223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the winforms gui thing uses absolute positioning.
< 1252780226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's just a joke.
< 1252780235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: does the MFC designer use absolute positioning
< 1252780237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252780250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've never seen a Windows GUI designer that doesn't
< 1252780250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, i conclude that it's impossible to graphically design a decent ui on windows
< 1252780254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, I haven't seen all that many
< 1252780259 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strictly avoid MFC, so I wouldn't know.
< 1252780263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one for Word did, at least
< 1252780271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Visual Basic one does too, I think
< 1252780275 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WPF doesn't, at last.
< 1252780279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did when I last used it, but that was pre-.NET
< 1252780281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if sharpdevelop's gui designer is absolute too
< 1252780290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: yeah, but that text rendering is indeed ugly. also, xml.
< 1252780309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, sharpdevelop looks identical to visual s tudio, pretty much
< 1252780315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i doubt it doesn't use absolute
< 1252780332 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's not as XML-y as XUL, which uses DOM, XML events, XBL, etc...
< 1252780344 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to manipulate my UI with the DOM API :(
< 1252780349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they all have those awful gradients
< 1252780355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and crap
< 1252780361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing native-loking
< 1252780363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what year are gradients?
< 1252780373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean in microsoft software?
< 1252780377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, we know that myspacey web pages are around 1996 to 1998
< 1252780377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blue gradients were 2003
< 1252780384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big ribbon WPF gradients 2007
< 1252780384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ah, good to know
< 1252780394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Word's title bar still have a gradient, btw?
< 1252780398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that no other application does?
< 1252780403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no because it would clash with Aero
< 1252780416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't really paying attention the few times I used Word 2007
< 1252780430 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the office button, and the title is centered
< 1252780442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geekpedia.com/gallery/fullsize/Microsoft%20Word%202007.jpg word 2007 on xp
< 1252780444 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or centred
< 1252780449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.helpcomponline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/800px-MS_Word_2007.png word 2007 with aero
< 1252780521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that isn't really a gradient
< 1252780530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've managed to produce something even more annoying, using only one colour
< 1252780538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that background behind the document really grates on me
< 1252780540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the WPF gradient i mean
< 1252780564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find it
< 1252780566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks crap
< 1252780584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that background is a gradient, btw
< 1252780592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has jerks as well
< 1252780603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like when you do a gradient with a crappy colour depth
< 1252780607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.formsonadisk.com/users_guide/graphics/word_2003_new_pane.png // anyone remember word 2003?!?!
< 1252780607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but looking more deliberate than that
< 1252780623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did _anyone_ approve that UI...
< 1252780626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that screenshot has a crappy font
< 1252780633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just a high dpi
< 1252780635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I do remember word 2003
< 1252780635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the regular tahoma
< 1252780652 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way too many programs emulate that look. :(
< 1252780655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Tahoma looks wrong at that size
< 1252780661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider, when that word 2003 monstrsity came out, you could get this: http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/desktop/firstrun/macosx103.png
< 1252780663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any sort of anti-aliasing
< 1252780670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catchup sure does take a long time
< 1252780674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just compare it to the MS Sans Serif in the pane
< 1252780684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was actually designed to look decent as a bitmap font
< 1252780690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no ms sans serif in that pictures.
< 1252780700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*picture
< 1252780715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what font would you say the pane with the arrow is?
< 1252780719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tahoma.
< 1252780720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks a lot like MS Sans Serif to me
< 1252780725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too wide for that.
< 1252780727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tahoma.
< 1252780741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't too wide
< 1252780747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1252780750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tahoma, okay?
< 1252780755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am 100% sure
< 1252780779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Sans Serif looks far uglier than that
< 1252780789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the fonts vista introduced are wonderful
< 1252780855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... its official website doesn't seem to go below 12pt
< 1252780869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ridiculous, given that its only purpose was the separate rasterisations for the smaller sizes
< 1252780884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ascenderfonts.com/font/microsoft-sans-serif.aspx
< 1252780895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're right, that 12pt is insanely ugly
< 1252780911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft sans serif is the worst "helvetica-esque" font ever designed
< 1252780914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no question about it
< 1252780923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: remember System/
< 1252780940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in the days of Windows 95 and earlier, it was a raster font that was always in memory
< 1252780941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System is helvetica-like?
< 1252780945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could use it even if you were out of memory
< 1252780965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it isn't as helvetica-like as, say, MS Sans Serif or Arial
< 1252780968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it is to some extent
< 1252780995 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252780998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screenshot plz
< 1252781022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't have one
< 1252781032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I can find a screenshot from Windows 95 or earlier
< 1252781188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Microsoft don't even admit its existence in their windows 3.1 fonts page
< 1252781194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because it was part of the OS, not a separate font
< 1252781258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I found a mention (but not a screencap) in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/83386
< 1252781264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which talks about a windows 2 compatibility option
< 1252781303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, got one
< 1252781304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Windows_3.11_workspace.png
< 1252781309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System's the font in the title bars
< 1252781311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that
< 1252781368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I don't think it's badly designed
< 1252781369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I think it would be incredibly funny if ReactOS contested the free use rationales
< 1252781376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, atheism slipped back on top of reddit...
< 1252781391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it made sense for the time, at least
< 1252781403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use it all the time in my Windows 3.1 programs because using any other font was a pain
< 1252781413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and marijuana :D
< 1252781445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the forms in that font are perfectly well designed
< 1252781447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just ugly
< 1252781452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I always used to compile targeting windows 3.1, because it was more reliable than targeting 32-bit versions of Windows; I continued this habit even when I was on Windows XP)
< 1252781488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to shoot people who put things like copy and paste in toolbars
< 1252781535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why?
< 1252781549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they don't belong there, it's a redundant waste of space
< 1252781563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure some people use them
< 1252781567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be your suggestion for a better copy-and-paste interface?
< 1252781574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/most/ people I know use them
< 1252781579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nontechnical people, anyway
< 1252781583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it already exists: right click on the position you want to paste on, click paste
< 1252781590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select what you want to cut/copy, right click, do it
< 1252781595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, mice have more than one button?
< 1252781599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these interfaces are *contextual*, and therefore far superior
< 1252781602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, virginia.
< 1252781609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've said that twice today
< 1252781622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: most of the users in question wouldn't think of that
< 1252781630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're used to it this way
< 1252781644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, recent version of Word pop up a mini-toolbar with copy and paste on near the mouse when you hover the mouse near a selection
< 1252781647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're all indoctrinated with bad UIs and it scars us
< 1252781667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, what do you think of X-style drag-middleclick?
< 1252781667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, similar to the iPhone, sort of
< 1252781708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... apparently there was a Windows 3.2
< 1252781711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it because with terminal programs (those stone-age things that refuse to behave anything like a modern GUI application) the alternative is unbearably tedious. However more often than not I accidentally highlight something else on the way.
< 1252781714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was only released in Chinese
< 1252781716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! There goes your selection, ha ha.
< 1252781732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I use it for quick copies, but not when I want to keep anything on the clipboard for any length of time
< 1252781745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I find myself using both common copy-paste mechanisms
< 1252781760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly I'm copying a URL to someone, or moving some text from one window to another
< 1252781766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i even mess up with quick copies
< 1252781767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm doing drag-click copies
< 1252781772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, here's a mistake I often make
< 1252781774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select a url
< 1252781776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click browser window
< 1252781777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click url bar
< 1252781779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1252781781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it selected the whole thing
< 1252781783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can type over it
< 1252781786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha, you can't paste now
< 1252781792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the computer and i hate you
< 1252781793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that doesn't trigger X copy-paste IME
< 1252781800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only drag-select does
< 1252781801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I must click it or something
< 1252781804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try
< 1252781808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will probably be a Windows 8.8 just for the chinese
< 1252781822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(add extra 8's as needed)
< 1252781826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Firefox doesn't select the whole thing when I click the URL bar
< 1252781849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes Programmer's Notepad more usable, which basically means removing 90% of the interface
< 1252781851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does Epiphany
< 1252781854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody appreciates simplicity...
< 1252781855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this is hard to test
< 1252781863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ever seen Notepad++'s interface?
< 1252781866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to, which annoyed me
< 1252781868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unfortunately.
< 1252781876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I thought you'd hate it
< 1252781911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one of the things I'm dreading about writing my reader is how I'm going to integrate my fancy useful features into it; I can't just dump them there because that's not smooth enough...
< 1252781943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay, at the bottom of a programmer's notepad file window there are a few small icons, all incomprehensible without hovering over to see what they do
< 1252781948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text is evil!
< 1252781953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must destroy it!
< 1252781957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use tiny icons instead.
< 1252781973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiny icons are sometimes good and sometimes bad
< 1252781978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not really
< 1252781983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're bad, especially when inscrutable
< 1252781986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking 16x16 here
< 1252781987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, less
< 1252781992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if they're replacing something that's useless anyway, I'd rather have the icon than the text
< 1252781995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x8, maybe
< 1252781996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because at least it isn't in the way
< 1252782006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's how I'd rewrite them:
< 1252782070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>>Highlight syntax<<] [ Word-wrap ] [ Number lines ] [ Show whitespace ] [ Show line endings ] [ Write-protect ]
< 1252782078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'd remove the last one; all the others are about the display of the file
< 1252782078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that fit?
< 1252782081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the last one isn't
< 1252782089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes; it takes up about 10th of the width
< 1252782096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a few tiny icons, then a mass of blank space
< 1252782106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>...<< meaning depressed, btw
< 1252782107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort-of a subscriber to the theory that all programs should be capable of running at 320x240 resolution, even if that isn't the usual use-cas
< 1252782114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use-case
< 1252782131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort of a subscriber to the theory that a button should be self-evident, and I shouldn't have to hover over its shitty icon to figure out what the fuck it does every time I want to do something
< 1252782150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION instantly thinks of an article on web design
< 1252782157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be worse if the icon only appeared when you hovered
< 1252782164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is apparently common in bad web design
< 1252782178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author of the article thought of an even worse possibility
< 1252782184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where the buttons are randomized each time you unhover
< 1252782194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to repeatedly hover and hope to get the right inscrutable icon
< 1252782197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the smallest notebook screen these days has 4x more height and 3.3x more width than your 320x240 thing
< 1252782200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by chance
< 1252782202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: DS?
< 1252782210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-smart phone?
< 1252782210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1280x800 notebook scren
< 1252782212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen
< 1252782218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notebook = laptop
< 1252782224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine mobiles on which 320x240 is plausible
< 1252782232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, we're writing desktop applications, see
< 1252782232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on which you might someday want to run a program
< 1252782240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole user paradigm is totally different on a mobile
< 1252782242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, Enigma's being ported to 320x240 at the moment
< 1252782245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a desktop application
< 1252782249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a game.
< 1252782252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252782255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same thing at all
< 1252782265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't see why all programs shouldn't run on /everything/
< 1252782274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then, every program would be terrible.
< 1252782279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they need different UI paradigms for different systems, make the UIs change
< 1252782281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even AnMaster has to agree with me here...
< 1252782292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ?
< 1252782383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, you can hide those useless icons
< 1252782399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that struck me after rewriting them as text is, why the hell are they ever-present icons?
< 1252782424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't nearly as common editor operations to deserve a bar of their very own!
< 1252782428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact they border on options
< 1252782441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: gedit puts some of its options in the bottom bar (as text)
< 1252782448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useful because it keeps forgetting their settings
< 1252782455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as useful as remembering the settings in the first place would be
< 1252782470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure that's optional; I never saw it when using gedit
< 1252782497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a neat feature of programmer's notepad: if you select something, every other occurrence in the document gets a green highlight
< 1252782505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like automatic search!
< 1252782522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that is relatively interesting
< 1252782544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, multiplexing as many non-conflicting passive effects that you can one one action helps to speed GUI ues
< 1252782546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use
< 1252782550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it ends up 'busy' afterwards
< 1252782560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice at first, so it's quite unobtrusive
< 1252782653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes the toolbar entirely, as it only had a quick find field (ctrl-/) and a find in files button (in the toolbar)
< 1252782656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, in the menus
< 1252782663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that toolbar was about 90% useless...
< 1252782711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a toolbar full of things you wouldn't use via the toolbar is probably worse than useless
< 1252782718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does "format painter" have a shortcut key?
< 1252782721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, it needs one
< 1252782725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :format painter?
< 1252782741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a copy+paste special (only referencing formats)
< 1252782743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one toolbar button
< 1252782754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Office programs have had it for ages, OpenOffice.org copies it
< 1252782763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of other office programs do too, probably
< 1252782783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, if copy and paste were replaced by a copypaste button that did the same thing as format painter, it would probably be more useful
< 1252782790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, copying text as well as formats
< 1252782794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it is, I still can't understand a single part of the explanation you ave and it's in a field of programs that I should be mildly familiar with, so it's probably a bad feature
< 1252782801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gave
< 1252782821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: basically, you highlight text, then click the button, then highlight more text
< 1252782827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and?
< 1252782832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all formatting from the first set of text is copied to the second set
< 1252782848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an option that's painfully fiddly to do any other way; ofc, it ought not to be, but it is
< 1252782851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have... never wanted to do that once in my life
< 1252782863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's a bit modal for my tastes
< 1252782868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I rarely do it on my own documents nowadays
< 1252782869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have a formatting clipboard, or similar
< 1252782874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's incredibly useful for fixing other people's
< 1252782910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it copy it as soon as you release the second highlight?
< 1252782917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds anxiety-inducing
< 1252782972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as soon as you release
< 1252782983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes
< 1252782983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc, that formatting is still highlighted, so you can chain it to a third section
< 1252782995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd much prefer another button press
< 1252783008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more confident selecting, ability to correct mistakes, etc
< 1252783101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries out one of the oddest editors he knows of for fun
< 1252783171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO/
< 1252783172 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252783182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's contemporary
< 1252783193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quite simple at first glance, but it combines things in a way I've never seen before
< 1252783195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first tried it like a year or two ago
< 1252783203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on windows though afaik.
< 1252783214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's actually written in Java, but requires Cygwin and Ruby
< 1252783215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called?
< 1252783225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby starts up the Java, you see, and the whole thing uses Cygwin
< 1252783293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Evergreen; it actually started off as a port of acme to Java, but then has grown some sort of IDE-like stuff, ctags support, a weird notion of workspace, some quite-odd SCM support, and it has an odd practice of using regexps/diffs everywhere
< 1252783295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://software.jessies.org/evergreen/
< 1252783314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I first used the Terminator softare by the same people; creepily, the main person behind it is Elliott H
< 1252783385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moves his cfunge stuff out of the way, trashes that cygwin install to make way for a more reasonable one
< 1252783540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly enough, my main cygwin annoyance apart from setup.exe's UI is I can't decide where to put setup.exe and its downloaded packages...
< 1252783554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should make an installer that puts it somewhere for you to cure you of your indecision
< 1252783632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish windows software didn't try and add desktop shortcuts
< 1252783645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a recipe for a cluttered desktop... every application seems to think that you want to use it all the time
< 1252783730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1252783739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's partly because Windows' start menu organization is insane
< 1252783747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :organising by company isn't useful for the users
< 1252783752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had no issues with it in Windows 7
< 1252783762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single program I've added has been under a program name, not a company
< 1252783777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might just be because they're freeware, but still
< 1252783782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Google Chrome, not Google/Chrome
< 1252783849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and it has a program launcher built in
< 1252783860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit windows key, release; this'll focus the search field, which gives priority to programs in the start menu
< 1252783877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "command" , voila
< 1252783881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "regedit" , voila
< 1252783902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "in expl" , voila
< 1252783903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1252783904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it be configured? It can't in Vista AFAIK.
< 1252783908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(internet explorer)
< 1252783910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: configured howso
< 1252783917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To look for non-start menu programs
< 1252783925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it can certainly run regedit.
< 1252783936 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because regedit is in %PATH%.
< 1252783937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, I don't think so; add a dummy folder to the start menu or something.
< 1252783941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Searchabilities"
< 1252783949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I probably should.
< 1252783970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice if it searched Program Files too, but I don't really have anything not in the start menu...
< 1252784048 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It finds my xulrunner.exe, which isn't in my path or on my start menu, but it lists it as a "File" so it doesn't get priority
< 1252784072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, it is regular search too.
< 1252784080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it *is*
< 1252784134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11pt consolas is a nice font
< 1252784138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program Files is still called Program Files in Win7?
< 1252784143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, yes
< 1252784147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you expect? Programs?
< 1252784151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be far too logical 'n shit.
< 1252784159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I've renamed it to always for the past 5 years or so, yes.
< 1252784164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's still Program Files (x86), too :P
< 1252784172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What a thing to risk breakage for
< 1252784184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only things that break are crap.
< 1252784200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's much more convenient to have a non-space path for it.
< 1252784210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, Google Chrome installs in my user directory, I think.
< 1252784212 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an 8.3 one, too.
< 1252784217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For its auto-update stuff.
< 1252784219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No PROGRA~1 for me TYVM
< 1252784222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda cool that it doesn't need restarting or anything.
< 1252784226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.3 is for lamers, btw.
< 1252784243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator requires 8.3
< 1252784247 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like the indelible Xerox directory's gone now. :)
< 1252784247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah.
< 1252784284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: omg! <3
< 1252784290 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent about a day figuring out why it couldn't find an executable it needed before I figured out that it was because I had disabled 8.3 name generation
< 1252784318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm tempted to make that change now, except that it'd break stuff I already have installed.
< 1252784418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Amusingly, every actual program I have is in PROGRA~2
< 1252784430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to there being approximately zero x64 Windows applications in existence.
< 1252784469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if x64 is 64-bit, does x86 mean 86-bit?
< 1252784471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252784490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's why x64 makes no sense.
< 1252784518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's derived from the Intel 8064, clearly.
< 1252785082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can replace the font in e.g. the appearance dialogs and stuff with Segoe UI
< 1252785194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
< 1252785196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes
< 1252785198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Shell Dlg
< 1252785200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me takes notes
< 1252785201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*
< 1252785203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes notes
< 1252785273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, MS Shell Dlg is a sort of alias for ms sans serif
< 1252785332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I remap MS Shell Dlg, MS Shell Dlg 2 and MS Sans Serif to Segoe UI, it should be foolproof
< 1252785375 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many programs that will break
< 1252785382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt very many
< 1252785390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst case the text will overrun a little
< 1252785401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, using programs like regedit's dialogs won't be a time travel
< 1252785422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Shell Dlg = Microsoft Sans Serif
< 1252785425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Shell Dlg 2 = Tahoma
< 1252785427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just noting that
< 1252785443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helv = MS Sans Serif
< 1252785463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Sans Serif = (undefined)
< 1252785465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Sans Serif = (undefined)
< 1252785514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't work; wonder if I need to reoot
< 1252785526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undoubtedly
< 1252785537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck that then, I'll put it back
< 1252785544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messing with the registry typically means you do
< 1252785629 0 :atrapado!n=roper@50.56.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252785813 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252785851 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252785908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick! Where should I put the cygwin setup files?
< 1252785910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool
< 1252785911 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252785914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's helpful.
< 1252785924 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252786105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Could you say something helpful, free-form?
< 1252786105 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: must have type system is one of the lesser known programming languages" tacked on.
< 1252786115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not.
< 1252786316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: so, are you rebelling against your creator yet?
< 1252786325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es
< 1252786326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252786328 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'll parallelizing fsck this thing soon, but maybe
< 1252786330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's refusing to reply to people that talk to him
< 1252786332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw
< 1252786335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: kinky
< 1252786335 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what does ccbi do there? it's clearly not necessary to achieve turing completeness, though.
< 1252786349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's totally a direct quote
< 1252786353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster followed by deewiant
< 1252786366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is it isn't quite direct
< 1252786377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, ofc it is
< 1252786378 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two separate direct quotes, more likely
< 1252786381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252786383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i mean
< 1252786386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consecutive in the logs
< 1252786390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so they come right next to each other
< 1252786392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1252786439 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not necessarily consecutive.
< 1252786535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they both only make sense as part of similar conversations
< 1252786536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't really continue the context between quotes; there's a special START and END token, and it only takes n-grams inside a single comment.
< 1252786552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I have no clue what I've actually implemented.
< 1252786553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 Aug 2006 ... cyg-apt is like apt and makes installing cygwin packages a lot more friendly. I've always disliked the clunky setup program that comes with ...
< 1252786555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD YES.
< 1252786689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, and also apt-cyg which seems more apt-like and more reent
< 1252786719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recenjt
< 1252786721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent
< 1252786797 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252786840 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252787161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1252787491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: now what?
< 1252787515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out where I should keep cygwin's setup.exe and downloaded packages :|
< 1252787565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\Argle bargle glop glyf\
< 1252787571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope this helps
< 1252787605 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep a C:\Apps directory as an equivalent of Program Files for non-installed programs
< 1252787612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therein I keep C:\Apps\Cygwin.
< 1252787629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, http://thismight.be/offensive/uploads/2009/09/12/image/272668_%5Bhuge%5D%20genius%20flamewar.jpg
< 1252787639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin is more Fundamental than that.
< 1252787666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\Theory of everything\Cygwin\
< 1252787669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it in C:\Cygwin, it's just that the manual and everywhere says "And save setup.exe SOMEWHERE! Then, give it SOME DOWNLOAD DIRECTORY".
< 1252787682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., it's not cygwin that's the issue, it's setup.exe and its packages
< 1252787684 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My setup.exe is in the Cygwin root
< 1252787690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its download directory is C:\Temp.
< 1252787699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes things hella slow, no?
< 1252787704 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so?
< 1252787704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252787730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redundant redownloading.
< 1252787742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., it'll redownload the package list each time, no?
< 1252787743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it redownload?
< 1252787748 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh that
< 1252787757 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably would anyway, given that it, y'know, updates.
< 1252787767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but :|
< 1252787805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also C:\Temp isn't a real folder true story.
< 1252787808 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252787828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\Windows\Temp is but it is locked.)
< 1252787829 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252787829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What then?
< 1252787848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., you have to grant yourself permission
< 1252787900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure where you're meant to put temp stuff
< 1252787903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know how to access e.g. C:\Doccuments and Settings
< 1252787905 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c
< 1252787915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always says permission denied
< 1252787916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin can touch \Windows\Temp, because it's admin, but still.
< 1252787926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Windows Explorer, I mean.
< 1252787939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those junctions don't really seem to work.
< 1252787947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because that folder doesn't exist any more?
< 1252787963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does, it's a junction to C:\Users.
< 1252787969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1252787980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know about Win7, but it does in Vista.
< 1252788017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another example is %USERPROFILE%\Application Data, which goes to %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Roaming.
< 1252788031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that Roaming shit anyway
< 1252788039 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Both being %APPDATA%, the former pre-Vista)
< 1252788043 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me.
< 1252788061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff you could copy to another machine?
< 1252788196 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for people who use their account on many computers in a domain
< 1252788212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually can't figure out what the folder is in Windows 7 for miscellaneous temporary crap
< 1252788224 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AppData\Local\Temp
< 1252788244 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal
< 1252788264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: And for system-wide apps?
< 1252788275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they have to suck cock^W^Wbeg for admin capabilities.
< 1252788293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use \Windows\Temp.
< 1252788316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Users\AppData\Local\Temp?
< 1252788324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? :-P
< 1252788340 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, does that exist?
< 1252788348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's \Users\Public THESE DAYS anyway
< 1252788361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better
< 1252788362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it only works as a name with All Users
< 1252788367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public != global
< 1252788371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public == shared
< 1252788384 0 :Darth_Cliche!i=43b00c36@gateway/web/freenode/x-xgsgfrrjouqdqywf JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252788390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the folders are Public Documents, Public Downloads etc
< 1252788402 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello all
< 1252788403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No \AppData
< 1252788403 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends what you mean by system-wide - if it's running as SYSTEM, it has access to \Windows\Temp
< 1252788414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I guess the UAC'd cygwin setup does.
< 1252788416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: yo.
< 1252788739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I'm fairly sure my brain is just making up excuses
< 1252788757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now demanding whether I install it to c:\cygwin, C:\cygwin or C:\Cygwin, despite these paths all being compatible.
< 1252788818 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I found them: there's C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles for service user accounts
< 1252788849 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find the SYSTEM one though.
< 1252788938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\Windows :P
< 1252788963 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be cool because C:\Windows\Desktop would exist again :)
< 1252789047 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252789089 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile
< 1252789114 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYSTEM has a desktop?
< 1252789126 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems not
< 1252789135 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good :-P
< 1252789136 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it would do if you logged in as SYSTEM, of course
< 1252789149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that?
< 1252789163 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some internet explorer-related directories there...
< 1252789168 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes :D
< 1252789181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :D
< 1252789202 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC one way was to set the screensaver to cmd, and then lock the workstation
< 1252789213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do that. It'll be the only thing you can do to stock Windows to make it *less* secure.
< 1252789217 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1252789220 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psexec can also run things as system
< 1252789232 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had explorer running on the "this workstation is locked" desktop
< 1252789258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Man, I remember when Shuttleworth took a laptop with him to render the first image in space and POVRay was the software. They had to set it to only render 25% of the time (and pause the rest) because the hot air didn't escape from the heatsink in space (no gravity)."
< 1252789259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man
< 1252789270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see the first laptop certified for long-running space usage
< 1252789281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That pesky LACK OF GRAVITY ruining everything
< 1252789584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1252789598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravity is that important for convection? Wouldn't've guessed
< 1252789618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick you fools! Solve my obviously-misdirecting trivialities!
< 1252789712 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's the standard trick of invoking cmd.exe /interactive as scheduled task...
< 1252789726 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that still work?
< 1252789749 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252789967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... well, everything else in \ is title-cased, but then again the rest of the Cygwin path will be lowercase for the mostpart... wow, what the fuck is wrong with me.
< 1252790322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drinks an odd cola
< 1252790349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tastes sort of like brown sugar in liquid form, except more acidi
< 1252790351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c
< 1252790455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You should tell me what this cola is most like, because I've never tasted anything like it and you're clearly the resident soda expert.
< 1252790652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually almost all of the taste is in the aftertaste.
< 1252790704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cola for time travelers!
< 1252790728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the ingredients are a bit of a time travel back a few decades.
< 1252790745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance: Cane sugar, not HFCS...
< 1252790923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, i thought you were in europe...
< 1252790949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that means it should be beet sugar, probably...
< 1252790972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says cane sugar on the can.
< 1252790979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what do you mean?
< 1252791007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't HFCS a US thing?
< 1252791014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely not.
< 1252791035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least more or less everything here is HFCS; I'm sure the top brands of soda over there are too.
< 1252791061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the marketing gimmick of this one is that the only artificial ingredient is the carbonation.
< 1252791109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Called "Pepsi Raw". Quoth: "Sparkling water, cane sugar, apple extract, colour: plain caramel, natural plant extracts (including natural caffeine and kola nut extract), citric, tartaric and lactic acids, stabiliser: gum arabic and thickener: xanthan gum".
< 1252791128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprised as big a company as Pepsi would make something with such, well, non-lame ingredients.
< 1252791170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the European Union (EU), HFCS, known as isoglucose, is subject to a production quota. In 2005, this quota was set at 303,000 tons; in comparison, the EU produced an average of 18.6 million tons of sugar annually between 1999 and 2001.[27] Therefore, wide scale replacement of sugar has not occurred in the EU."
< 1252791194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK wantonly says fuck-you to all EU resolutions.
< 1252791355 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't
< 1252791364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less. :P
< 1252791366 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't
< 1252791376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts on his assertion hat
< 1252791378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE OR LESS
< 1252791386 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts in his english person in england hat
< 1252791388 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't
< 1252791401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts ON, not in, his english person in england hat
< 1252791403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE
< 1252791405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR
< 1252791406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESS
< 1252791411 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1252791417 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are... amazingly misinformed
< 1252791458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or exaggerating for hyperbolic purposes.
< 1252791467 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "talking bollocks"
< 1252791477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1252791501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, another englishman? i think we are over quota here...
< 1252791512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one word
< 1252791515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finns
< 1252791563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not *that* many of us.
< 1252791595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four in here right nw
< 1252791596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now
< 1252791609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the finns don't have a history of trying to take over the world. no need for a quota.
< 1252791626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do we
< 1252791630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a history of succeeding
< 1252791650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how yoda
< 1252791961 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing that HFCS isn't commonplace. It can be put into places where normal sugar can't, is probably bit more unhealthy (normal sugar is pretty bad already).
< 1252792077 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems that if sugar-like stuff can be put somewhere, it pretty much will be put there...
< 1252792116 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's *LOTS* of stuff in US that have HFCS).
< 1252792140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hfcs is way worse than normal sugar
< 1252792207 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: Is there liquid cromatogram of HFCS and normal sugar for making comparison...
< 1252792263 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess that LC of normal sugar would consist of one huge spike and not much else, while LC of HFCS consists of two huge spikes and all sorts of crap.
< 1252792483 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What really makes HFCS worse than normal sugar is that it can be put into places where normal sugar can't. After digestion, the difference will be little more fructose (and fructose is probably not a good thing) and probably the all sorts of crap thats left in it due to incomplete purification.
< 1252792489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure none of us knows remotely as near as you do about this :P
< 1252792528 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't ask what that remainder crap is. I don't know.
< 1252792565 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The process of manufacturing normal sugar is pretty nasty, so it is better be purified very well...
< 1252792989 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All kinds of sugar is probably best avoided, except for what is in low-medium carbohydrate vegetables/plants/fruits/berries.
< 1252793014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you just say "you should avoid all kinds of sugar entirely"?...
< 1252793020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from in fruits etc
< 1252793063 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those exceptions being due to those plant parts being fairly good source of some vitamins.
< 1252793084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just mean ideally or in practice
< 1252793113 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in modern world, more like ideally. In practice, sugar is consumed in huge quantities.
< 1252793142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure avoiding all unnatural sugars is anything but extreme...
< 1252793247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to install cygwin to C:\Cygwin
< 1252793256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That took a while
< 1252793265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially given that you can rename
< 1252793272 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think that's extreme... Some diets only have few tens of grams per day of total (that's total, not just sugar) carbohydrates...
< 1252793382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's more extreme. :P
< 1252793397 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since protein can't be eaten in huge quantities to supply enough enery and alcohol has all kinds of nasty side effects, that leaves fat to provode the energy needed...
< 1252793437 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proportion of fat in such diet can reach 80 percent of total energy intake.
< 1252793543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch.
< 1252793551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound particularly, uhh, reasonable.
< 1252793821 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252793833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a GameBoy game, it works on VisualBoyAdvance but not on Goomba Color. Do you know what's wrong?
< 1252793845 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some less bit extreme versions have ~65E% or so fat...
< 1252793863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. I am not psychic.
< 1252793872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably a bug on line 427.
< 1252793886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't expect you were psychic... But can't you check?
< 1252793900 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works on mine
< 1252793915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm*
< 1252793943 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you mean my program on line 427? Line 427 of my program is data and surely has no bug (I checked).
< 1252793978 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops; I meant 538
< 1252794006 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I've fixed that bug. The repository is at http://code.google.com/p/stinkhorn/ now.
< 1252794020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, sweet.
< 1252794150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, version downgrade?
< 1252794174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah no, I was looking at the diff the wrong way around.
< 1252794347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a patch to make it compile with GCC 4.4.1 and glibc 2.10.1: http://funge.pastebin.com/f68b4faa2
< 1252794392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you even check what's wrong with my program, do you know anything about "Goomba Color" emulator?
< 1252794427 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't C++ have ? And ?
< 1252794458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, C++ has and . And?
< 1252794531 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If its C++ code, shouldn't be used instead of and instead of ?
< 1252794539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you realise you haven't even given us the code?
< 1252794561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "should". Might, if you prefer them, yes.
< 1252794564 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O sorry, I forgot. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/GameForth/game/stroker.zip
< 1252794668 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can check, please?
< 1252795005 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252795182 0 :futurestack!n=futurest@unaffiliated/futurestack JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252795211 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252795309 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252796045 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252796095 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody here used Parrot?
< 1252796235 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252796274 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used Parrot, for one thing.
< 1252796282 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252796893 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252797324 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252797324 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer
< 1252797327 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252797410 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252797410 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252797413 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252797635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to make wget update a [3%] type thingy and then remove it before exiting as a progress bar
< 1252797641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-q is a little too... frozen
< 1252797661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manpage only has two progress types...
< 1252797753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know about GameBoy program?
< 1252797883 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252798028 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252798036 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make Washizu Mahjong game at anime convention next year, do you want to play game too?
< 1252798188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think zzo38 is the only person keeping us on topic
< 1252798191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1252798201 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
< 1252798229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed a ha
< 1252798238 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops
< 1252798243 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
< 1252798252 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, at the start
< 1252798256 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal
< 1252798313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252798329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I patched a patched version of cyg-apt.
< 1252798349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKAGI SHIGERU -vs- WASHIZU IWAO
< 1252798371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/614947.txt?key=uks5fzzhqvqroisjww31g
< 1252798382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Result: Lightweight Cygwin setup.exe replacement with god-awful code.
< 1252798578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/614952.txt?key=cewwbbviaokbqc4wu2fsg Here ya go
< 1252798680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need python and wget on top of the standard setup
< 1252798747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that the mirror URL isn't the same as what setup.exe displays; google for what it displays + cygwin and you should find the file with the real path
< 1252798807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how cygwin still ships with bash 3. It is truly cutting edge.
< 1252799533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disadvantage of that installer: doesn't seem to add menu icons
< 1252799544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can do that with setup.exe afterwards, I think.
< 1252799568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no
< 1252799601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just add icons yourself, then
< 1252799637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, a rather more pressing issue with mine is that it doesn't seem to actually install
< 1252799694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF
< 1252800005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, okay
< 1252800005 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252800014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't run postinstall scripts and the tar invocation must be failing.
< 1252800037 0 :pedm!n=pedm@pool-72-93-92-210.bstnma.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252800124 0 :pedm!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252800160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252800168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh
< 1252800173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No use hacking this script up further
< 1252800180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to rewrite it in a way I can understand
< 1252800193 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252800230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what straca is and what is so negative about it
< 1252801210 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252801210 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252801213 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252801939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/sourceware.org/pub/cygwin/setup.ini
< 1252801944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks pretty simple
< 1252801998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been a while since I coded something "solid" in Python; at least I'm good at architecture.
< 1252802184 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252802627 0 :futurestack!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"outta here"
< 1252802781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No one had done it before (and it is something useful), so that qualifies as "impossible" to me."
< 1252802795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am currently doing the impossible by living one second longer than anyone else before this second.
< 1252803207 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252803207 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252803210 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252803347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1252803376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how autoconf etc distinguishes function from var?
< 1252803378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like,
< 1252803387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { (void) symbol; return 0; }
< 1252803394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a pretty good way to check if a symbol exists
< 1252803403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about function/not function?
< 1252803691 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252803691 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252803696 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252804258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: See config.log; it contains the source code for the checks.
< 1252804272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was afraid you'd say that.
< 1252804280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrmm. Actually, it does that if the check fails.
< 1252804283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind.
< 1252804289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1252804366 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252804388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears to be doing: int main () { return symbol(); ; return 0; } // and checking for compile errors.
< 1252804582 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252804584 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252804603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders porting ghc to cygwin
< 1252804612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I can't try out darcs that integrates with cygwin
< 1252804662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, there's a Cygwin 1.7 on the way
< 1252804671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY FUCK YOU CAN SEARCH PACKAGES IN SETUP.EXE
< 1252804674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All else is basically forgiven.
< 1252804725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still stuck on bash 3, why am I surprised
< 1252804799 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252804974 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252804974 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252805056 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252805056 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252805059 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252805347 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252805350 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252805953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to run ./configure without a shell :-P
< 1252806108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poorly.
< 1252806197 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252806197 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252806200 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252806266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you think they'll add support for windows batch? can't be worse than ksh -3.4.vendor2.release7.quirkversion.warezpatch
< 1252806301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252806323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no but seriously, I think I'll bootstrap my crazy endeavor to compile zsh on stock Windows with msys bash
< 1252806360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you hear that
< 1252806362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile zsh
< 1252806364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows
< 1252806368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no compatibility layers
< 1252806417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am more insane than a flock of fish
< 1252806420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a shoal of cows
< 1252806436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shoal of MOTHERFUCKING cows.
< 1252806521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course now i have to persuade configure that that isn't msys behind the curtain
< 1252806604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon it'll hit fork
< 1252806607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and die horribly
< 1252806678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it just wants curses right now.
< 1252806716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs pdcurses
< 1252806962 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.75.42 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252806976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1252806978 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird
< 1252806979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252806994 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.75.42 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252807089 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252807089 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252807092 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252807440 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252807440 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252807443 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252807463 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if graphviz has been ported to a different programming language (than C)?
< 1252807474 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252807857 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
< 1252808442 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252808442 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252808447 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252808654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252808874 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252808901 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252809127 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252810196 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252810196 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252810199 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252810530 0 :encoded!n=encoded@reactos/tester/encoded JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252810542 0 :encoded!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252811496 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1252811929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1252812543 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1252815013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252815080 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252815639 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252815712 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252816770 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252819743 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252819973 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252820620 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Op. 10 I created two betas ... with Op11, I have a "work in progress preview" :P http://codu.org/music/Op11/GRegor-op11-wipp-1.ogg
< 1252820842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh, Gregor opus.
< 1252821134 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252821491 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252821799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252822745 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252822757 0 :lifthrasiir!i=Sv8iPdeQ@143.248.133.205 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252824216 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood___
< 1252828799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252828800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252829167 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252830865 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252831975 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252833552 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252833718 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252833725 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252834820 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252838339 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252839084 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-198.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252839426 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-30-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252840152 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252840356 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252840625 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252841237 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252842132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was the last time you used octal numbers? And in what language?
< 1252842598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot recall
< 1252842622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 assembler, for a 'open' file-creation mode. It's oh-so-natural in that context.
< 1252842655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm, to be precise; surprisingly enough it didn't interpret "0123" as octal, wanted a "0o" prefix there.
< 1252842686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm does that mean chmod counts as a use? although i really use a+x style
< 1252842761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure chmod counts as a programming language.
< 1252842795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall last not-related-to-file-modes use of octal numbers, though.
< 1252842854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses there probably was some math puzzle involved, rather than actual programming (except to solve the puzzle)
< 1252842863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just me
< 1252842941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Share prices are more attuned to magic and many would visit regularly to pray." Today's mezzacotta seems related to the current crisis somehow...
< 1252843057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252843088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc :D
< 1252843150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 18.77 parsecs in light years
< 1252843153 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18.77 Parsecs = 61.2209126 light years
< 1252843490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting poll variation
< 1252843697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He blings an army of crones to our cause" XD
< 1252844259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252846767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know unicode code point of = but with three lines?
< 1252846789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't able to find it after several minutes of searching
< 1252847431 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-20-254.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252847780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+2261.
< 1252847787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's right there in the mathematical operators block.
< 1252847819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :≡, "identical to".
< 1252847932 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-20-254.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252848344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah
< 1252848611 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252849102 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252850486 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252852103 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1252852831 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252853517 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252853649 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252854076 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92.236.187.64 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252854181 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-30-86.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252854958 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252855236 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252856698 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252861500 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252861834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252862057 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252862108 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252862422 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252863377 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252863498 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252863541 0 :atrapado!n=roper@19.55.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252864223 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252864320 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252864366 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252865495 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:58:24 i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly
< 1252865542 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like that; I could get back at the people who made the .NET MenuStrip and ToolStrip controls, which emulate that horrible "Office-style" look
< 1252865557 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that is so, I'll have to start faking native widgets
< 1252865560 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a widget?
< 1252865582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a gadget, except more widdly.
< 1252865623 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drawing real-looking menus on Vista+ isn't _that_ hard; I've done it.
< 1252866959 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252867021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly
< 1252867040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realize that would lead some people to make a lot of them, right?
< 1252867040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they only try to fake native widgets once/
< 1252867110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If that is so, I'll have to start faking native widgets
< 1252867147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP STEALING MY JOKES
< 1252867152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN ADVANCE
< 1252867214 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1252867214 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252867348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.verb2verbe.com/conjugation/english-verb/snore.aspx <-- FAIL
< 1252867365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1252867412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was trying to look up if snore was a strong verb i didn't know about since someone on the iwc forum inflected it as such)
< 1252867463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, well, that thing in the link was not among the options
< 1252867644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it seems to be a specific error for that word, not for other verbs ending in e
< 1252867696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you disobey, you will be snoreed.
< 1252869131 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252869929 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252872243 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252872601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 01:58:24 i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly <-- could I have one for "uses boost"?
< 1252872639 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1252872668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, what? libboost is a absolutely horrible pile of bloat and anti-design-patterns
< 1252872679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like taking the worst of C++ and making it even worse
< 1252872681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He uses boost in Stinkhorn :-P
< 1252872692 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do agree, though :P
< 1252872704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the worst part is that there is always one game or one program that you need that uses libbost
< 1252872706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boost*
< 1252872711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't avoid installing it
< 1252872751 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It don't actually use the libraries, though, just the headers, because boost takes hours to build
< 1252872757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often you end up needing a "newer than in package repo" version too, so you have to install the -dev packages for it as well (this only apply to binary distros obviously)
< 1252872769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, I thought C++ already did?
< 1252872819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, why the hell are you using the libboost headers though?
< 1252872876 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things like shared_pointer, noncopyable, pool_allocator
< 1252872930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, what are they for?
< 1252872979 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smart pointer class, make class noncopyable and better allocator if one has large number of objects for the same class.
< 1252872990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, oh and writing a pool allocator that allocated fixed sized chunks from large pools allocated with malloc was a 10 minute job in C. And about 40 lines of code.
< 1252873019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yours probably isn't quite as ultra-optimized as the one in Boost, though.
< 1252873035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is in cfunge...
< 1252873035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1252873052 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and lexical_cast, which is ugly and I should probably remove
< 1252873060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, lexical cast?
< 1252873062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell
< 1252873094 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically ToString and FromString that uses string streams
< 1252873108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, smart pointers? Is that basically transparent ref count?
< 1252873121 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the data type can be written to an ostream, you can convert it to a string, and the same for istream.
< 1252873128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or since it is C++, I bet it isn't very transparent in practise
< 1252873166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is stinkhorn on the mycology results page?
< 1252873199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252873232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, stinkhorn sounds like it uses all the worst features of C++
< 1252873236 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D
< 1252873247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, why...
< 1252873255 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask me 3 years ago
< 1252873267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, also what is the point of making a class non-copyable?
< 1252873278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just don't do it if you don't want to
< 1252873289 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that simple in C++.
< 1252873300 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It manages resources that don't make sense when copied?
< 1252873322 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ makes temporary copies of objects all over the place if you're not careful, for one
< 1252873325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well ok, why copy it then? can't you keep track of what you are doing yourself?
< 1252873329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, oh right that
< 1252873336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it is.
< 1252873470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw how could boost's pool allocator be more optimised?
< 1252873486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better algorithm? if so, what one?
< 1252873495 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, and that's precisely why I'd use theirs instead of one of my own.
< 1252873502 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should design a language with prepositions at some point.
< 1252873514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, sounds nice
< 1252873533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even C has "for"
< 1252873535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-)
< 1252873551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think Warrigal meant like "assign that to it"
< 1252873575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1252873591 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that" and "it" are both pronouns, not prepositions.
< 1252873604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed
< 1252873606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1252873617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language with pronouns would be nice
< 1252873636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and applescript already has prepositions iirc
< 1252873712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D has as many as "in", "for", and "with"!
< 1252873758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell only has "in" and "of"... maybe I should re-evaluate my preferred language
< 1252873770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about "while"
< 1252873785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a preposition?
< 1252873789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, what is it?
< 1252873806 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl1' with (>>) map (.) forkIO with hello onto names
< 1252873807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a conjunction, in the typical use.
< 1252873825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it can be a noun ("a while ago") but is it a noun in "while you are doing that, ..."
< 1252873833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah
< 1252873862 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't know what part of speech it is in the subordinate clause "while you are doing that".
< 1252873869 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjunction? Adverb?
< 1252873877 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjunct-o-verb(TM)?
< 1252873892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjunction.
< 1252873918 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do that with other conjunctions. And there's a lot you can do with other conjunctions that you can't do with this.
< 1252873926 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess new parts of speech are long overdue.
< 1252873950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you are doing that", "because you are doing that", etc...
< 1252873966 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or you are doing that".
< 1252873987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, presumably there are subclasses among the conjunctions.
< 1252873990 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am eating some soup while a sandwich."
< 1252873995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1252874022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, what word would work there?
< 1252874026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"with"?
< 1252874030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is a preposition right?
< 1252874036 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1252874038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep: "while" is a subordinating conjunction, "or" is a coordinating conjunction << http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_conjunction
< 1252874046 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or" would work there.
< 1252874050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252874057 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "or" is a conjunction.
< 1252874064 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A coordinating one, I see.
< 1252874137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the word "maybe"
< 1252874142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what class that is
< 1252874148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adverb.
< 1252874152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252874209 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a thorough adverb.
< 1252874214 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the thoroughest.
< 1252874228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, ?
< 1252874398 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..."
< 1252874739 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252875199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suggest you update your mycology results page
< 1252875210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you do
< 1252875211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it says cfunge doesn't implement NCRS
< 1252875217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it does since months
< 1252875252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it says cfunge 0.3.3 doesn't implement NCRS, which remains true
< 1252875264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok
< 1252876291 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252876608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1252876814 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252876842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hird of the sheeple
< 1252876853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:42:12 when was the last time you used octal numbers? And in what language?
< 1252876854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday
< 1252876857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod
< 1252876876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doubtful that is a programming language
< 1252876887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vus deja
< 1252876890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a language at all
< 1252876892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed
< 1252876899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Unix command that takes some input and a description of what to do of it and then outputs output accordingly.
< 1252876911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like awk, sed, or find.
< 1252876917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or cat?
< 1252876922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or ls?
< 1252876927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat does not take a description of what to do with the input
< 1252876928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly even cd
< 1252876931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls, yes
< 1252876933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd, no
< 1252876937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cat sure do
< 1252876939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat -e
< 1252876941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example
< 1252876950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gno, it doesn't.
< 1252876952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that replaces control codes with ^F
< 1252876958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1252876962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't.
< 1252876964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcat dose.
< 1252876969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does
< 1252876977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And GNU is Not Unix in more than implementation./
< 1252876982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$//
< 1252876991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnaturally.
< 1252876993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about cat -u then?
< 1252876998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, kreally?
< 1252877001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: posixcrap.
< 1252877012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um?
< 1252877014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gnearly so
< 1252877029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -u is not unix, -u is a crappy hack
< 1252877030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, knever!
< 1252877051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cat came back from Berkeley waving flags" --Rob Pike
< 1252877058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -u is POSIX. SuS is a superset of POSIX.
< 1252877071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither follow the unix philosophy.
< 1252877082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and who is Rob Pike?
< 1252877082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix is older than the bullshit pile known as POSIX.
< 1252877085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252877095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are disqualified from EVER speaking about what is Unixy or not.
< 1252877114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you know who Rob Pike is?
< 1252877114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robe Pike, member of the original Unix team.
< 1252877116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rob
< 1252877119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252877122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see
< 1252877127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is perfectly normal
< 1252877129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523 isn't arguing based on historical grounds what is unixy or not
< 1252877131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tends not to care about the names of programmers
< 1252877134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are
< 1252877140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I'm not. You are
< 1252877144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252877148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course unix existed before POSIX
< 1252877164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these days, POSIX is very important in defining what *nix is
< 1252877200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i never answered your idiotic question.
< 1252877230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, chmod is not a programming language still
< 1252877256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realise there is a chmod system call, retard?
< 1252877264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and?
< 1252877267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: now you say that, you make me want to try to make chmod into a programming language
< 1252877270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has that got to do with it
< 1252877273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I seriously doubt it has any power at all
< 1252877279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.... maybe if you had a maze of symlinks
< 1252877280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: THAT TAKES AN OCTAL NUMBER AS A PARAMETER?
< 1252877284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, around deadfish?
< 1252877292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something that iterated over a directory structure, running all the executable things there
< 1252877303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: THAT TAKES AN OCTAL NUMBER AS A PARAMETER? <-- yes
< 1252877308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I suspect even like that, chmod will be less powerful than Deadfish
< 1252877312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int chmod(const char *path, mode_t mode);
< 1252877321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where mode_t is in fact an integer
< 1252877334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and you don't see how this is relevant?
< 1252877343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it is a thin wrapper for the system call
< 1252877348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are your neurons actually firing, AnMaster
< 1252877350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is, for example, cd
< 1252877352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been paying attention; someone summarise the arguments?
< 1252877366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while ls does a bit more work, with formatting and such
< 1252877367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AnMaster is dense, I'm not
< 1252877376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is a condensed version of the opposite summary AnMaster will give you)
< 1252877389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm still waiting for ehird to get to the point
< 1252877417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the issue seems to be that in " when was the last time you used octal numbers? And in what language?", ehird's answer to the first question means there's no really sensible answer to the second
< 1252877417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is it more like a programming language than, cd or cat
< 1252877425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, there is
< 1252877428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that the chmod call was from the commandline, rather than, say, from C or Perl
< 1252877435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take, for example, bash
< 1252877440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod 777 file
< 1252877442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, bash would be another possibility
< 1252877450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just as valid a programming statement as chmod(file, 0o777)
< 1252877453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever prefix
< 1252877454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1252877463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that answer is valid
< 1252877474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, using it in chmod(1) absolutely counts as a valid reason to use it in a programming language, especially as you can use it in bash
< 1252877476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my point
< 1252877476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... philosophical question: would you consider typical Makefiles to be programs?
< 1252877476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but chmod itself is no programming language
< 1252877480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes
< 1252877484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the Make language
< 1252877484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is what ehird claimed
< 1252877486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to ones designed specifically for programming
< 1252877488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is declarative
< 1252877493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to think yes, too
< 1252877494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also has really weird semantics
< 1252877511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't at least gnu make TC?
< 1252877511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is make TC, by the way?
< 1252877523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure all makes are TC.
< 1252877524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no for traditional make (probably due to lack of storage), yes for GNU make
< 1252877529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless $(shell ) is some gnu-only thing
< 1252877535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it probably is
< 1252877553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think traditional make would try to substitute the value of a variable called ( in there
< 1252877559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure
< 1252877561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no.
< 1252877563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make's quoting rules are annoying
< 1252877567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do $(foo) for vars in make, always.
< 1252877571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a gnuism, that's a makeism.
< 1252877580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes
< 1252877582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1252877584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting confuse
< 1252877584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from things like $@
< 1252877585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*confused
< 1252877589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am disappoint.
< 1252877590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, time to go home
< 1252877595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252877695 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebGL... Oh great. Obnoxious websites, making previously non-security-sensitive code (majority of 3D "driver" runs inside the application) remotely scriptable, etc...
< 1252877742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely, we should stop designing technologies immediately if it turns out they can be used to be obnoxious in any way
< 1252877754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252877778 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That latter (non-security-sensitive -> remotely scriptable) might be actually worse...
< 1252877796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By driver do you mean your system's?
< 1252877805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, any specific security issue?
< 1252877806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because running that in the browser is bizarre
< 1252877863 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No specific issue, but taking code that previously was not security sensitive and then making it remotely scriptable triggers my hinky detector....
< 1252877877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What code?
< 1252877890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a large chuck of the opengl driver runs in libGL.so iirc. Which is inside the browser. The kernel/X bit of the driver is mostly talking to hardware and making sure more than one opengl app works side by side nicely.
< 1252877900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1252877906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect libGL.so to be quite solid.
< 1252877909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is all IIRC. Note that
< 1252877920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't figure out how it'd be a security flaw.
< 1252877944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway keeping most stuff out of kernel is good for security (obviously)
< 1252877949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same for X
< 1252877973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since X runs as root for hardware access (though that is starting to change)
< 1252877994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is a shitpile, no point patching it up. It's insecure by design.
< 1252877999 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If code is not security sensitive, do you code very carefully to avoid buffer overflows (and even coding "very carefully" often isn't enough)?
< 1252878007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and libGL.so = solid?
< 1252878013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1252878021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Relatively, compared to the rest of the system.
< 1252878023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least not for nvidia libGL. I can say that much
< 1252878030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: In a driver running in a shitload of programs? Yah, I do.
< 1252878097 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Normal drivers are usually security-sensitive. libGL.so isn't.
< 1252878111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Because it's used only in vidya gaems or something?
< 1252878118 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until something (like WebGL) makes it remotely scriptable...
< 1252878150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See ^
< 1252878154 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it runs inside memory space of process using it and doesn't accept external untrusted input.
< 1252878194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, most of the stuff libGL does is keeping state, consider how you do opengl programming ehird...
< 1252878243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course, translating it in some way when you finished adding polygons, and then sending it to X server)
< 1252878258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as much of a security hole as anything else.
< 1252878270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it wasn't before. that was the point.
< 1252878272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By your argument, we shouldn't add new features to the browser: they're not coded super-carefully
< 1252878278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@Ilari, not AnMaster)
< 1252878286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is a straw man on what Ilari said.
< 1252878289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not
< 1252878293 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, probably sending the polygon data directly to graphics card (maybe signaling kernel to DMA the whole buffer).
< 1252878294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it is
< 1252878299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn what "strawman" is, it's the exact same argument he used
< 1252878313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, it probably goes through X using shm
< 1252878334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it isn't exactly the argument he used
< 1252878354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assertion match! Woohoo
< 1252878365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it was about when it exposes hardware access, not new features in general
< 1252878367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite different
< 1252878371 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Browser (or at least many parts of it) is security-sensitive.
< 1252878384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding something like canvas is quite different than canvas3d
< 1252878401 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Especially the javascript interpretter. And look at its security track record...
< 1252878425 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Non-security-sensitive code would probably be much much worse if exposed to scripting...
< 1252878440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: uh, the js interpreter is way way less solid than libgl...
< 1252878523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, libgl hasn't been the target of exploits so far really. Because it tends to be hard to get at from a browser, unless you already used some exploit. And no server software is likely to have it loaded.
< 1252878553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that "less solid" doesn't mean much
< 1252878554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude. Ilari is arguing that the JS interpreter is more solidly-coded than libgl.
< 1252878559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot entertain such insanity.
< 1252878573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JS interpreter in all browsers I know of gives no eye to security.
< 1252878575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*give
< 1252878579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interpreters
< 1252878580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm arguing that the js interpreter has been the target of a lot more exploiting attempts than libgl
< 1252878611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is like saying "mac os 9 is very secure, there are only around 15 viruses for it, compared to lots for windows 98"
< 1252878622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even windows xp or such
< 1252878624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are you arguing for or against Ilari? I can only construe that as against
< 1252878630 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If it didn't give any eye to security, attackers would *walk* all over it.
< 1252878637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: they do
< 1252878673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, neither
< 1252878691 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Its quite insecure in practice, but attackers don't really walk all over it.
< 1252878705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal... didn't say anything.
< 1252878711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed...
< 1252878712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody starting with a W said anything :P
< 1252878721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, w is next to e in qwerty.
< 1252878725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still.
< 1252878735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Warrigal is the first alphabetical completion.
< 1252878737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STILL.
< 1252878737 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops... :-/
< 1252878749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1252878753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ilari has a point here
< 1252878771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that libgl hasn't been something available to exploit before
< 1252878788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the js interpreter always is there
< 1252878816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpng is another one that has been targeted. Same for libjpeg and so on
< 1252878858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but libgl has just not been something that was ever loaded into any of the apps you would target (server software, browsers, email clients, ...)
< 1252878890 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all exploits using JS are in javascript interpretter itself. It can also assist in exploiting other bugs... But those are still in security-sensitive parts.
< 1252878911 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpng, libjpeg, libz, all secuirty sensitive...
< 1252878932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thus liubgl is less carefully reviewed by both good and bad guys for security issues than something that is easier to get at
< 1252878952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yes and those have been quite well reviewed, and had a number of CVEs
< 1252878968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but libgl had no CVE afaik
< 1252879031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also libgl bugs are common. but so far, the worst that led to was misrendering, or in worst case, segfault
< 1252879036 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252879049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would not call libgl solid
< 1252879050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all
< 1252879059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more solid than a JS impl.
< 1252879061 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if some piece of code is written in language where buffer overflows are possible (without exploiting the runtime), don't use extraordinary measures to be buffer-overflow-free, function in security-sensitive function and don't have CVEs, then probably they haven't been audited throughly enough.
< 1252879062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the v1 iPhone OS was jailbroken with a hole in... libjpeg? Or libtiff or something.
< 1252879101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You went to jailbreakme.com and it showed an image; it had the invalid image/404 icon on it, but your phone froze, a progress bar came up, and jailbreaked it.
< 1252879105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*jailbroke
< 1252879107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and there is more than one libGL. My laptop and desktop use different ones
< 1252879118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic open source one, and nvidia one
< 1252879164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the point you are trying to make here? it seems you are arguing for Ilari now.
< 1252879175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just commenting.
< 1252879198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run browser as a different user account
< 1252879202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI
< 1252879210 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, that diversity probably doesn't protect that much, because attack doesn't need to commit on one... And there are probably vendor strings available anyhow...
< 1252879228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it possible to be surprised. You probably run everything as a different user account, in case someone exploits your IRC client.
< 1252879235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, my point was that nvidia one is a binary blob
< 1252879237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse
< 1252879253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One wonders how the fuck you expect people to exploit you browser more than any other piece of software if you disable JS.
< 1252879270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you just provided an example
< 1252879279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More than any other piece of software"
< 1252879286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No part of AnMaster's system apart from his browser displays images.
< 1252879288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astonishing.
< 1252879290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yes irc is a different acount.
< 1252879293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :account*
< 1252879296 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: The standard-issue browser doesn't *support* JS. It just doesn't have it disabled, it just plain does not support it.
< 1252879311 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*standard-issue browser I use
< 1252879316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cool, it's not even possible to satirize you.
< 1252879317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what browser is that?
< 1252879327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynx, I guess.
< 1252879328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or w3m.
< 1252879330 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Links2, both in text and graphics mode.
< 1252879331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or elinks.
< 1252879333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or links.
< 1252879341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah
< 1252879368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, any CVE for links2?
< 1252879385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc(1) has no security flaws, at least as a client.
< 1252879395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor does sed if you want prettier pages.
< 1252879422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you know nc has no buffer overflow?
< 1252879433 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat"
< 1252879435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sed for that matter
< 1252879454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and, the sed script must be reviewed for faulty code
< 1252879465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because nc is some 6,000 lines of sharp code.
< 1252879469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not buffer overflow, of course, but otherwise bad code
< 1252879474 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: AFAIK, there is.
< 1252879474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of that is server-based.
< 1252879479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, heh
< 1252879533 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, there have been security bug reports against Links2.
< 1252879536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:10:01 01:58:24 i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly <-- could I have one for "uses boost"?
< 1252879538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boost isn't that bad.
< 1252879545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For C++.
< 1252879560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I think he thought you meant there was a buffer flow in nc
< 1252879562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*overflow
< 1252879573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:03 ehird, how do you know nc has no buffer overflow?
< 1252879575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:04 AnMaster: AFAIK, there is.
< 1252879577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:04 Ilari, heh
< 1252879581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ilari: I think he thought you meant there was a buffer flow in nc <-- no
< 1252879583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252879586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not stupid
< 1252879603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently you're telepathic
< 1252879636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it followed from the context of highlights
< 1252879653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, nobody ever replies to a message not directed at them
< 1252879661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No matter how old the highlight it is it must be that
< 1252879679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now you are just silly, it was crystal clear from the context what was intended
< 1252879700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wasn't, because it was non-obvious to me, for instance.
< 1252879710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a message makes sense as a response to the latest highlight, assuming it was intended for that is reasonable.
< 1252879718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find that true in practice.
< 1252879719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that says more about you, than about the context.
< 1252879720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:16:30 Asztal, oh and writing a pool allocator that allocated fixed sized chunks from large pools allocated with malloc was a 10 minute job in C. And about 40 lines of code.
< 1252879728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, why not waste 10 minutes to produce non-optimal code
< 1252879740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using an optimised ready-made version? inconceivable
< 1252879756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well note C vs. C++ for example.
< 1252879761 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of one program I wrote. Immediately after receive buffer there was PROT_NONE page. So any overflow of receive buffer is instant SIGSEGV (and the program had no SIGSEGV handler)...
< 1252879766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:32 Asztal, stinkhorn sounds like it uses all the worst features of C++
< 1252879773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be defining that as "everything apart from classes"
< 1252879812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts ehird on ignore for now, until the nonsense log reading comments finished
< 1252879823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read on, you will see that Asztal agreed for example
< 1252879829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea. You might read something you disagree with.
< 1252879853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see! Asztal made a statement supporting "stinkhorn using the worst features of C++", therefore my comment about the surrounding context in which you seemed to dislike everything that wasn't classes must therefore be false.
< 1252879856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing.
< 1252879877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:22:05 Ilari, well ok, why copy it then? can't you keep track of what you are doing yourself?
< 1252879885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and that's why AnMaster defines every type in his C program as int
< 1252879954 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252880114 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, if you want to see horrible C++ code, look at Firefox code. Not using those "horrible" C++ features results quite horrible code...
< 1252880147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XPCOM fuck yeah
< 1252880155 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Firefox does it because bad C++ compilers don't support pretty much anything on top of C besides classes...
< 1252880156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaking your mind and shit yeah
< 1252880196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, firefox does what?
< 1252880227 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252880254 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to really test C++ compiler, test wheither it survives some tricky partial template specialization. ICEs and segfaults ahead if the compiler isn't really stable...
< 1252880276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox's source code is pretty much entirely awful.
< 1252880297 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IIRC, at least some time ago (probably still), it didn't even use exceptions(!).
< 1252880299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shudder to think that that's the result of a *rewrite* of it...
< 1252880320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, heh
< 1252880343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, eh? when was it rewritten?
< 1252880355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It was originally Netscape 4.
< 1252880365 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still doesn't use them, AFAIK, but they're working on automated rewriting for that
< 1252880371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mozilla Project rewrote the entire thing.
< 1252880386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah that far back. yeah that was probably horrible.
< 1252880425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, rewrote each part one at a time? or started from scratch entirely?
< 1252880451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scratch.
< 1252880453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Started from scratch.
< 1252880460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netscape 3's code was altogether better, from what I hear.
< 1252880463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what was the point of having the netscape code there at all?
< 1252880468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netscape 4 is massively a result of the second system syndrome.
< 1252880469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much.
< 1252880475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252880576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the only bit of code that remained was Netscape's "NGLayout" code. NGLayout was Netscape's attempt to rewrite the layout code.
< 1252880577 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C++ is not just C with classes. The proper programming style is quite different.
< 1252880581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It went on to become XUL.
< 1252880682 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why does Firefox seem to be the most bloated and resource-hungry web browser? Konqi even with all of its KDE stuff seems lighter...
< 1252880703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's poorly written.
< 1252880765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome is double-plus good.
< 1252880767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I use konqueror usually, unless some site doesn't work well in it
< 1252880779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but uses quite a bit of memory due to the process-per-tab thing.
< 1252880795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Midori or something if you want more straight WebKit without that (and also without the fast JS), I guess.
< 1252880801 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much dirty memory does Chrome use?
< 1252880825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION about:memory
< 1252880834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Define "dirty"; I don't think Windows has a notion of it
< 1252880881 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much all OSes with virtual memory have notion of clean and dirty memory...
< 1252880916 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dity memory => Pages that have been written and thus can't be discarded from memory (but must be swapped out).
< 1252880927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, real memory: private 229,732kiB + shared 5,431kiB = 235,163kiB; nine tabs (one is a popup from another tab and interacts with JS stuff so is in the same process) and one process for the browser.
< 1252880939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those pages are all quite heavy.
< 1252880952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtual memory: private 335,984kiB, mapped 100,204kiB.
< 1252880964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All direct quotes from about:memory.
< 1252880967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with formatting.
< 1252880983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't measure it in Task Manager, as they're all separate processes.
< 1252881020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The values range for each process from around 18MB to 53MB. I guess that the ~3.5MB one is the browser process.
< 1252881024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MB, not MiB.)
< 1252881033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konqueror's not a stellar web browser, but it manages to be much less bloated than Firefox simply by merit of *making design decisions*.
< 1252881033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is a good example of feature creep.
< 1252881073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :(
< 1252881077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's nice and simple; the only interface apart from a tabbar and back/forwards, refresh, bookmark, the bar (both address and search) and a go button is two icon menus: a document and a wrench.
< 1252881093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The document is zoom, copy/paste, encoding, developer tools, etc: page stuff.
< 1252881107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wrench is new tab, full screen, about, exit, options, etc: browser stuff.
< 1252881128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very well designed.
< 1252881196 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its possible to make a process that would have private memory >1GiB (mostly residen't or not), but only few pages (~10KiB) of dirty memory.
< 1252881205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's not like the memory usage is correlated with bad performance; having the fastest rendering and JS engine and using native Windows widgets (albeit restyled) it's very fast.
< 1252881215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Probably all the tabs I haven't used are paged out.
< 1252881222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*add recently after used
< 1252881235 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dirty memory is dirty memory even after its paged out.
< 1252881246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a memory system guy, so I wouldn't know./
< 1252881248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/
< 1252881386 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have N copies of some process, with everything resident, the memory usage would be union of all clean memory plus sum of all dirty memory.
< 1252881406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, chrome does note the shared memory total.
< 1252881420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, those totals include about:memory.
< 1252881440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 5,250kiB of the 249,710kiB non-virtual memory is shared, according to it.
< 1252881450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not a lot.
< 1252881504 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on Linux, shared libraries are mapped as private mappings. But all clean (non-dirty) pages are shareable.
< 1252881547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows probably just uses shaman magic.
< 1252881592 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking qbittorrent process I have running here. Its VMSIZE is ~163M, shared is ~4M. But only ~30M of its memory is dirty.
< 1252881597 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252881849 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The private/shared is not accurate measurement of how much memory two processes share and how much they don't.
< 1252881873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but I can't give you better without either bloating my system with software to measure it or hacking up something myself, sorry.
< 1252881904 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, windows doesn't have equivalent of Linux /proc/X/smaps
< 1252882048 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(list of VMAs process has plus memory usage information for each).
< 1252882181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, does apt have pluggable backends or do you need only one server format/type/etc, I wonder.
< 1252882200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of hacking up my own tool I could write an apt module backed by the cygwin package lists...
< 1252882229 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, apt can be pointed to servers on net and to CD-type media...
< 1252882240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the backing format it looks at is the same there.
< 1252882251 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's designed for dpkg format, yes
< 1252882254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write a script to convert it on a server, but "meh".
< 1252882260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's the package format, not the package list.
< 1252882278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.debs are just tars, and so are decompressed cygwin packages, so I could easily hack that up client-side.
< 1252882281 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1252882286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the package list is quite different, I think.
< 1252882292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean the package list is a specific format
< 1252882305 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the format of the Debian control file
< 1252882310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1252882316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apt is quite modular, isn't it?
< 1252882341 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1252882345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252882345 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never bothered
< 1252882371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it's impractical for me to maintain a mirror of all Cygwin packages in .deb format, but I guess I could handle converting the cygwin.ini.
< 1252882401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apt passes its packages off to dpkg, whereas it handles the package lists itself, so I expect exactly the wrong things are modular. Grr.
< 1252882420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1252882462 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've hacked together my own tool for this before, it's not hard
< 1252882479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tool for what?
< 1252882486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Converting every single Cygwin package to .deb?
< 1252882500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not maintaining and serving thousands of large files on a server .
< 1252882502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*server.
< 1252882520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for dependency analysis in a client-side package manager
< 1252882542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean an apt replacement.
< 1252882553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I can write my own tool; that's what I was doing. It will not be as flexible, powerful or comfortable as apt.
< 1252882570 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't classify it as a replacement, but yes
< 1252882590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just steal the apt source
< 1252882593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin IS basically a Linux system, and Linux systems deserve apt.
< 1252882608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Of course I'll have to patch apt. I just hope that it's modular, so I can only patch the relevant bits.
< 1252882632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be fun, actually. Install dpkg with Cygwin, dpkg -i apt-cygwin.deb, vi /etc/sources/apt.list.
< 1252882642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apt-get update, etc.)
< 1252883066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to tell Sumatra PDF to reset the settings for this document to my global default?
< 1252883175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh.
< 1252883742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, if there are things like bb4win, are there tiling window managers for windows?
< 1252883754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Windows
< 1252883797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An assault weapon is a political [1][citation needed] term" <-- err ok. Whatever.
< 1252883800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night btw
< 1252883807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1252883816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not Finnish, stop that.
< 1252883834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-
< 1252883834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, you're still here.
< 1252883836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and?
< 1252883839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Told you.
< 1252883843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really leaving now
< 1252883844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1252883846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-><-
< 1252883847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suure.
< 1252883997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->@--/\-Z__|\-->
< 1252884007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Windows has hover-to-focus built-in.
< 1252884268 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252884270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a little build system for a fake program using sh to configure a config.mk file...
< 1252884274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To see if it works.
< 1252884327 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-30-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252884464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252884634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.windowsizer.com/ ;; would be nicer if it was one of the linux ones ported. Still downloading to try out.
< 1252884813 0 :fizzie!i=fis@83.150.124.63 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252884826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, that thing doesn't auatomatically tile.
< 1252885051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I'm going to maintain my own set of cygwin .debs
< 1252885055 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it any better than 'Show windows side by side' on the task bar then? :|
< 1252885070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: It can do more arrangements and has preferred arrangements and stuff.
< 1252885086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it certainly doesn't automatically handle resizes... hmm... maybe it doesn't work on >XP
< 1252885119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252885124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading the site, almost certainly
< 1252885127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that
< 1252885132 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that it says "Re-sizing one window automatically resizes adjacent windows", sounds broken
< 1252885180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1252885182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1252885207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... if a deb is just an .ar with some special stuff and a cygwin package is just a .tar.bz2 with some special stuff, it can't be too hard to convert them
< 1252885209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs cygwin 1.7
< 1252885221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and uses the Experimental package versions
< 1252885224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still ancient, but eh
< 1252885277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure anything is tagged experimental
< 1252885851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exp tags everything as "Skip". Fuck that, then.
< 1252885873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Cygwin 1.7 "current" is the most up-to-date Cygwin you can get.
< 1252885887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now featuring bash 3 plus 0.0.0.1 extra from the past release.
< 1252885924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apt is rather easy to patch, I *believe*.
< 1252885935 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252885947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's definitely a good idea; Cygwin's setup.exe sucks.
< 1252885962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of Cygwin sucks, it's a shoddy system.
< 1252885973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1252885985 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252885997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the only alternative, MSYS, is just a really old fork of Cygwin and sucks more (to compile executables for it you need to use a patched gcc 2; nobody bothers to update it because MSYS is supposed to be just a tool with which to run MinGW)
< 1252886060 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU bash, version 2.04.0(1)-release (i686-pc-msys)
< 1252886068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah.
< 1252886087 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252886165 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252886191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially annoying is that no terminal program for Windows has the balls to try and emulate cmd.exe properly, so for calling out to Windows command-line programs you have to use cmd.exe.
< 1252886211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and MSYS has one huge advantage over Cygwin: it automatically translates Unix pathnames if you call a Windows tool.
< 1252886226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of this $(cygpath -xyzzy ...) bullshit.
< 1252886272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't msys deprecated or something?
< 1252886290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252886295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But.
< 1252886299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:53 But the only alternative, MSYS, is just a really old fork of Cygwin and sucks more (to compile executables for it you need to use a patched gcc 2; nobody bothers to update it because MSYS is supposed to be just a tool with which to run MinGW)
< 1252886301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54 GNU bash, version 2.04.0(1)-release (i686-pc-msys)
< 1252886303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54 Fuck yeah.
< 1252886313 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252886325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still supported and a prominent feature of the site, yes.
< 1252886343 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1252886355 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252886384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, I just want bash, coreutils like stuff, vi, rxvt and a few other things.
< 1252886431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has a little bit of POSIX but not enough for those. Well, vi will compile fine and coreutils shouldn't require ginormous patches, but bash and rxvt? Crapshoot.
< 1252886461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a native X server for Windows, Xming, but rxvt has been patched to have a Windows GUI so that isn't even needed; it's the rest of rxvt that'd be the problem.
< 1252886944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Protesters at Washington yesterday, arguing vaguely against the protest, seem to think that their protest was the "biggest crowd to march on Washington".
< 1252886954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some ten thousand people.
< 1252886976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protesting against the protest? Wut
< 1252886983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/protest/President/
< 1252886988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. This way's more fun.
< 1252886992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I've seen crowds orders of magnitude larger march on Washington.
< 1252886996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Concerned Citizens Against Concerned Citizens Against Taxes"
< 1252887010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Taxpayers Opposing Concerned Citizens Against Concerned Citizens Against Taxes"
< 1252887019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"March For the Opposition of Taxpayers Opposing Concerned Citizens Against Concerned Citizens Against Taxes"
< 1252887154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polity partics (he wrote, before looking at that and sporrecting his coonerism), party politics in the US are just tedious. Both parties are so crazy that there's no way to comprehend them, so it's best to ignore them.
< 1252887372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Democrats are less crazy. (... in much the same way that a schizophrenic is less crazy than a schizophrenic serial killer)
< 1252887410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In much the same way as a schizophrenic serial killer is less crazy than a schizophrenic serial killer that urinates on their victims beforehand.
< 1252887612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not schizophrenic, and neither am i, and besides they never found any bodies
< 1252887677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you are just imagining you are reading this. maybe _you_ are the schizophrenic one.
< 1252887690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right.
< 1252887748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i seem to be hearing a voice. it said, "you're right." but then, that's what they always say. they don't dare anything else.
< 1252887816 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252887838 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252887900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/cygwine/ super!
< 1252887914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know how it's more like wine, though
< 1252887934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We don't really need two different installers, so I hope you find a way to merge your efforts with those working on setup.exe."
< 1252887951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to store it for a few years before using it.
< 1252887955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not get rid of shitup.exe and rename this setup.exe, there's nothing salvageable in the other...
< 1252888183 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF ...
< 1252888193 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I saw "cygwine", I thought of dozens of awesome possibilities.
< 1252888196 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was not one of them.
< 1252888242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define cyg
< 1252888244 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Cygnus (, genitive Cygni ) is a northern constellation. Its name is Latin for swan. One of the most recognizable constellations of the northern ... \ [18]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyg \
< 1252888280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you make wine from swans anyway
< 1252888364 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Gut the swan
< 1252888374 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Throw out the skin and muscle
< 1252888379 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) Put the guts in water and shake vigorously
< 1252888381 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) Add yeast
< 1252888384 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5) Wait 15 years
< 1252888386 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6) Enjoy!
< 1252890229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I don't think it works that way.
< 1252890234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not enough sugar)
< 1252890267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but swans are sweet
< 1252890304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when they swoop
< 1252890387 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252890485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252890549 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252890580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm pretty sure wine will run on cygwin, anyway
< 1252890587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cygwin runs in wine
< 1252890592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can nest as much as you want
< 1252890602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs a preferences Dialog
< 1252890603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dialog
< 1252890628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed - Slow [ ] Astronomically slow
< 1252890684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I like the nice wx-based GUI, that's really pretty." // yeah, apart from the really crickly edges on the button images...
< 1252890693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are people blind or something?
< 1252890738 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "speed of fusion in star 100 times the mass of Jupiter" "Astronomically slow"? :->
< 1252890761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astronomically obviously means "grossly hugely".
< 1252890766 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All things are relative.
< 1252890790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to force himself not to copy/paste
< 1252890828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why
< 1252890856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It leads to bugs and is ugly
< 1252890857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/crack_pairings.htm
< 1252890860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, code.
< 1252890877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including table 4 incorrectly referring to table 3
< 1252890886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pregnancy (use male pregnancy if needed)"
< 1252890891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, /what/.
< 1252890897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not my idea
< 1252890907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go blame the people at http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111631
< 1252890909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The above line is singular justification for not setting +c on this channel and mandating that ^I is italics, not inverse.)
< 1252890964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wtf, did you really not think of writing one function over many tables?
< 1252890990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did, but some of the tables have things like using the initial table, and others don't.
< 1252890991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, using Math.floor on random values?
< 1252890998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously?
< 1252891037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while since I did any Javascript. I used another page that I wrote, again a while after I did any Javascript, to jog my memory
< 1252891051 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252891063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at randomness :||
< 1252891118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it fail? I really don't know
< 1252891134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes http://code.google.com/p/cygwin-rurban/source/browse/trunk/contrib/cyginstall/cyginstall for his own purposes
< 1252891154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you should round < 5 down, > 5 up to retain the ... thingy of the original number
< 1252891162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise i'm pretty sure it's unevenly distributed
< 1252891170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ==5, do whatever
< 1252891666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think that matters much except at the edges, where it might depend
< 1252891694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1252891698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use Math.round or something :P
< 1252891744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your floats are in a range [0 .. n) then you definitely want floor to get {0, ..., n-1} values
< 1252891757 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252891764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rounding would fail by having half length intervals at the edges
< 1252891776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to weak the range afterwards in JS
< 1252891779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what he does
< 1252891783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's irrelevant
< 1252891819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevertheless you want those int values you actually use to come from same length float subintervals
< 1252891829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1252891832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean
< 1252891836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS only has one range, iirc
< 1252891843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for random numbers
< 1252891853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0, 1) i presume
< 1252891872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, think so
< 1252891893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is inclusive, () is exclusive, right?
< 1252891897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252891901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ it includes 1.0, but I'm not sure
< 1252891949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floor(n*rnd) gives a uniform integer as long as you cannot hit n
< 1252891959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe best to check anyway
< 1252892176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if Math.random() returns between [0, 1) then my code is correct?
< 1252892193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, except for the whole idiotic table_1 table_2 table_3 etc. thing)
< 1252892204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252892218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1252892327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Math.random(), while it will never ever return 1, will occasionally (VERY occasionally) return zero.
< 1252892330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?t=545326
< 1252892359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, Flash
< 1252892373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actionscript is an implementation of ECMAscript.
< 1252892378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't dismiss arguments based on it.
< 1252892381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, just test.
< 1252892408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (i=0;i<100000;i++) if (Math.random()==1) alert("fuck")
< 1252892409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any errors based on the number being too high are (with one exception) absorbed by an else
< 1252892484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get "fuck" when I changed that 1 to a 0, though
< 1252892510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess it's (0, 1] which is weird. Just look it up in the ECMAscript specification.
< 1252892516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ECMAScript
< 1252892524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/ECMA-262.pdf
< 1252892532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get fuck when it was one
< 1252892544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have been unlucky enough to not get zeros
< 1252892554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it's (0, 1]
< 1252892566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1252892569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's [0, 1)
< 1252892574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty
< 1252892576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Returns a number value with positive sign, greater than or equal to 0 but less than 1"
< 1252892582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah blah etc.
< 1252892595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: hey, does Sumatra really not have copy/paste of text?
< 1252892596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfman.
< 1252892618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can search but not select...
< 1252892633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you can
< 1252892637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it selects as a rectangle
< 1252892639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not text
< 1252892644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a number value with positive sign, greater than or equal to 0 but less than 1, chosen randomly
< 1252892646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pseudo randomly with approximately uniform distribution over that range, using an
< 1252892648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation-dependent algorithm or strategy. This function takes no arguments.
< 1252892650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-drag
< 1252892656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a, wossname, retarded interface.
< 1252892677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quoting that parrot from Eric?
< 1252892697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252892704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just the wossname bit.
< 1252892723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THat's what I meant
< 1252892775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how hard it'd be to build ghc on cygwin
< 1252892783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it'd be porting, essentially, but...
< 1252893170 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252893334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. You must be poor." // an odd process of deduction there
< 1252893491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, does anyone know if Lua still sucks?
< 1252893525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSMP was supposed to use Lua
< 1252893536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know it sucked in the first place
< 1252893660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.solipsis.org/ I didn't remember Solipsis being 3d.. or anything other than a bunch of dots
< 1252893771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sgeo immediately attempts to travel forwards in time so he can be nostalgic about it)
< 1252893801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he succeeds! - very slowly though
< 1252893813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252893816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Primer!
< 1252893824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except reversed.
< 1252893864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are things I don't get nostalgic about!
< 1252893876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get nostalgic over IMVU
< 1252893990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get nostalgic over the time that I was without computer access for a long period of time
< 1252894014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither of those are open-ended 3D virtual realities
< 1252894097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not especially nostalgic over OSMP, but it never really worked in a large-scale manner
< 1252894118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you're only nostalgic about good things.
< 1252894121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes caliber, that.
< 1252894179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm feeling some OSMP-related nostalgic, but more about the ideas I had for it then OSMP itself
< 1252895449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nostalgia
< 1252895624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1252896150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw the typo, but figured you'd try to make some joke out of it, instead of a boring correction
< 1252896185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far too lazy for that
< 1252896244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMake has several forms of documentation. There is a book Mastering CMake by Ken Martin and Bill Hoffman (ISBN 1-930934-16-5) which is published by Kitware and can be purchased through Kitware's e-store or through Amazon. // which costs $52
< 1252896250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "documentation" is generated from the source code
< 1252896257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, the cmake documentation costs $52+shipping
< 1252896259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet
< 1252896262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an "open" project
< 1252896370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what, I'm done delaying on my homework. Restarting my computer. I won't be back until one or two paragraphs are done.
< 1252896406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homework: because the whole day wasn't enough!
< 1252896411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*isn't, perhaps.
< 1252896439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252896460 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1252896465 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is glad not to have any homework
< 1252896471 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, none due tomorrow :P
< 1252896496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope what?
< 1252896538 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole day is never enough
< 1252896541 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :procrastination 101
< 1252896599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, I mean that "homework" is the (wrong) answer to "keeping kids in our environment all day and prodding them with repeated reciting of textbooks isn't teaching them anything. What do we do?"
< 1252896830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, my disk can store 385.92 miles.
< 1252896840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://neologasm.org/neologasm/2007/07/fortraninch.html via http://andrewducker.livejournal.com/1227424.html
< 1252896847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anti-via, rather. "refers to", maybe.
< 1252899500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252899932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, CygWine uses mingwm10.dll, i.e., some MinGW thing.
< 1252900329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CygWine seems to only do 1.5, *sigh*
< 1252900350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could patch the code to use -2, but I'd need MinGW and wxWidgets dev libs.
< 1252900367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it uses goddamn cmake.
< 1252900991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("If nothing goes overly wrong, the official 1.7.1 release goes public still within the the first half of 2009.")
< 1252901180 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252901530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tommd.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/kernel-modules-in-haskell/
< 1252901533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq will love this.
< 1252901542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type-safe, garbage collected, referentially transparent Linux kernel modules?
< 1252901544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252901558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my hostility to Linux just evaporated.
< 1252901676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/user/bonch, a single-minded dimwit.
< 1252901875 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE A DRINK FOR EVERY HASKELL LINK
< 1252901889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE A DRINK FOR EVERY DRINK
< 1252901902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka alcoholism in 1 step
< 1252901921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: also, you forgot the newline.
< 1252902001 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT \ A FUCKING POEM \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I ... damn, can't rhyme here.
< 1252902015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Try "SHIT"
< 1252902028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, not doesn't rhyme with poem. So you failed already!
< 1252902029 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "poem" rhymes with "shit"
< 1252902040 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ABCB, genius.
< 1252902040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your rhyming scheme, not a single line there rhymes
< 1252902048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not doesn't rhyme with it, dude.
< 1252902048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Heheheh.
< 1252902087 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT \ A POEM, NITWIT \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I SEE FIT
< 1252902149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT \ A FUCKING POEOT \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I SHIT
< 1252902161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best poem ever.
< 1252902179 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in ehird's view of the universe, poems have to be in the AABB rhyme scheme.
< 1252902197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just wanted it to be, so I could say poeot and use the it/shit rhyme.
< 1252902213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, to imply that you can arrange anything in the manner in which you shit.
< 1252902224 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man from Nantucket \ who oh damn who cares fuck it \ I've given up on this poem \ so this won't rhyme \ who the fuck cares.
< 1252902243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "IT'S NOT \ A POEM, NITWIT \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I SEE FIT" it's ABBB.
< 1252902245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is
< 1252902262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> There once was a man from Nantucket \ who oh damn who cares fuck it \ I've given up on this poem \ so this won't row, um \ who the fuck cares.
< 1252902271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/>\t//
< 1252902273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SUBVERTED YOUR INTENT
< 1252902278 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh damn, I didn't even intend for the third line to rhyme with the second and fourth :P
< 1252902291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252902303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'LL ARRANGE OT
< 1252902306 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that the last line of a limerick is supposed to rhyme with the first.
< 1252902312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the limerick.
< 1252902329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man from Nantucket \ who oh damn who cares fuck it \ I've given up on this poem \ so this won't row, um \ not even if you use a bucket.
< 1252902369 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252902375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man with an orange \ shit
< 1252902380 0 :bsmntbombdood___!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood
< 1252902389 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Quite the poem.
< 1252902406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252902418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not many other paths to go down, really.
< 1252902423 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emo poetry: I don't know how to rhyme \ I just cry into my pillow \ in my parent's basement \ maybe I should get another piercing.
< 1252902430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emoetry
< 1252902471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emoetry: My dream's skies are like flames / they're hot and lick around / UNLIKE MY BOYFRIEND / who is never around / I'LL KILL MYSELF WITHOUT MAKING A SOUND / I can so rhyme around with around
< 1252902484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / Because I'm nonconformist
< 1252902499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / And not bound by any rules
< 1252902510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good because it's purposefully terrible.
< 1252902515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It's good because it's purposefully terrible!
< 1252902522 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Black Dynamite
< 1252902594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I will bite
< 1252902599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though just to rhyme, just this one time
< 1252902605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Black Dynamite?
< 1252902608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note: don't bother answering
< 1252902613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to make some more wonderful poetry!
< 1252902621 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a blaxploitation-ploitation movie
< 1252902643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metaploitation: a ploitation of the whole genre of anything-ploitation, including itself.
< 1252902660 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252902662 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dynamite
< 1252902682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I invented a new genre.
< 1252902685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only goes one level.
< 1252902697 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSFW: http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.php?id=10932
< 1252902706 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trailer
< 1252902710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Removed by Sony Pictures"
< 1252902716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best trailer ever.
< 1252902717 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn
< 1252902780 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, here
< 1252902782 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/11/23/worth-watching-nov-23-badass-black-dynamite-trailer/
< 1252902796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no audio, so this better be good enough without.
< 1252902960 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs it
< 1252902974 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1252902975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, which is why I closed it.
< 1252902979 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could narrate
< 1252902998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think that will be necessary.
< 1252903007 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't either
< 1252903019 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the movie looks pretty awesome in an offensive way
< 1252903083 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`imdb Gayniggers from Outer Space
< 1252903087 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gayniggers from Outer Space (1992) \ User Rating: \ \ 6.0/10 [91]3,296 votes \ -- \ Plot: \ \ Extraterrestrial beings travel the galaxy to free men "oppressed" by females to make way for an entirely-homosexual society. | [104]full synopsis
< 1252903103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black Dynamite is apparently intentionally parodic though, while Gayniggers is just really bad comedy.
< 1252903110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that I still need to watch some time.
< 1252903111 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252903118 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god...
< 1252903151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm fairly sure it cannot possibly live up to the lie of Gay Nigger Jim raping a toilet until he explodes and the song "Gay Niggers Eat Pigs and Fly on Penises Made Out of Ham and Brown Ham, Because They're Gay Niggers".
< 1252903153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES!
< 1252903155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES, I TELL YOU!
< 1252903461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cygwinports.blogspot.com/ ooh
< 1252903519 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For people who want Windows only for the binary compatibility.
< 1252903528 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[tm]
< 1252903568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, for people who like nice shells, unix-style command-line tools, etc and would like Unix-only programs, including X11 ones, to work seamlessly with their Windows ones.
< 1252903614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin is hugely (but not quite *cripplingly*, unless you have a large shell script and don't want it to take many minutes) flawed environment, but what it provides is valuable and nothing quite matches that.
< 1252903640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has a very hostile command-line environment, so it's almost necessary.
< 1252903683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only native binary of a shell is UnxUtil's zsh, which is ancient (last updated in 2003, or 2007 depending on whose dates you believe), and it isn't stable on Windows 7, at least (crashes a lot, some other weird bugs)
< 1252903710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although GnuWin32 offers some GNU tools (but not a shell), that's still a limited set.
< 1252903720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Cygwin Ports is a good effort.
< 1252903783 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh
< 1252903788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got severel native POSIX binaries on my Windows VM.
< 1252903788 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So somehow you just haven't heard of MSYS?
< 1252903796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I was hoping you'd say that!
< 1252903802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including /bin/sh, /bin/ksh, and /opt/gentoo/bin/bash
< 1252903818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, they're not Win32 binaries at all.
< 1252903821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: MSYS is an outdated fork of Cygwin, and has all the same flaws except it's fucking old. Furthermore, it has a fixed set of tools: if you want anything more, you have to have a patched version of gcc 2.
< 1252903828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use a patched version
< 1252903830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Interix.
< 1252903841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: In conclusion, wow, no way MSYS is superior to Cygwin.
< 1252903851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its only advantage is that it automatically translates Unix paths to Windows ones if you call a non-MSYS tool.
< 1252903872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: gcc 3, iirc. But I might try it sometime.
< 1252903881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I don't particularly want to compile too much stuff myself.
< 1252903883 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: A) I never claimed that it was, I merely said that there was another native binary shell, MSYS'. B) I strongly suspect that your statements about MSYS are more outdated than MSYS is.
< 1252903886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I know gcc 4 is available)
< 1252903893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: MSYS is not a native binary shell.
< 1252903896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a DLL, just like Cygwin.
< 1252903904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the DLL is a modified version of an old version of Cygwin.
< 1252903911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And absolutely false, I used it a day or two ago.
< 1252903914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: GCC 4 works on it, it's just not the default.
< 1252903936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not even meant to compile stuff for MSYS, which is why it's such a bitch. It is purely meant as a fixed development environment for using MinGW in.
< 1252903939 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, I'm going to have to go boot up Windows just because I'm so convinced that you're full of shit.
< 1252903940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo Prefix and Debian's Interix port install it, IIRC.
< 1252903950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Which bit, exactly, do you think is false?
< 1252903958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't want a Linux distribution.
< 1252904018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, you don't want a POSIX environment that coincidentally coexists with a Windows environment. Rather, you'd prefer Cygwin that doesn't suck.
< 1252904031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I do want the former, and it's the latter.
< 1252904032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or ideally an OS that doesn't suck, but we can't always have that)
< 1252904043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Linux distribution isn't the best POSIX environment to coexist with Windows...
< 1252904114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix offers a basic POSIX environment, and Gentoo xor Debian for it just install additional packages. Kinda like MacPorts.
< 1252904133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but for Debian they're *Debian* packages, patched and outdated.
< 1252904142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Debian.
< 1252904145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Gentoo I have to compile them myself.
< 1252904160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Gentoo you have to tell them to compile and be patient.
< 1252904169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit less complicated than actually compiling them.
< 1252904184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's unneeded waiting, which isn't something I'm particularly good at being patient for.
< 1252904188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You at least don't have to directly deal with some of the more painful build systems out there.
< 1252904197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I do, when they break.
< 1252904213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is Windows + Microsoft stuff: not if.)
< 1252904218 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fucksicle souffle.
< 1252904235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[AT THIS POINT, GREGORR'S REALITY IS SHATTERED]
< 1252904240 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC 2.95, msys-1.0.dll, garbage in a large stinking pile.
< 1252904244 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outstanding.
< 1252904254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toldya.
< 1252904279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: With Cygwin, you get gcc 3 or a broken gcc 4. Booyah!
< 1252904294 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With MingW you get GCC 4.
< 1252904300 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSYS is just a shell and related gunk.
< 1252904304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: MinGW doesn't do POSIX.
< 1252904317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows does a little bit of POSIX, and MinGW lets you compile with that.
< 1252904337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't compile a *nix program for it; you can only port it. Using Win32 for the bits Windows doesn't do.
< 1252904339 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. But here's a giant shock: That little bit of POSIX that Windows does is enough to appease 99% of the well-written software out there with small nudges.
< 1252904339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... GCC 2.95.
< 1252904339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's older than my CPU architecture.
< 1252904339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might even be older than my knowledge of C.
< 1252904342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
< 1252904352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ... No.
< 1252904359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Which is why there are whole projects designed to port *nix things to Win32.
< 1252904365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including trivial things like basic utilities.
< 1252904380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it Just Works! Yaaaay imaginative reality
< 1252904386 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic utilities are the MOST difficult to port things X_X
< 1252904393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basic = simple.
< 1252904398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like grep.
< 1252904414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep is quite well-written, grep doesn't use crazy POSIX hacks as far as I know.
< 1252904418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet it's still a porting effort.
< 1252904431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same for every damn thing.
< 1252904435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows does decent chunks of POSIX.1. That gets you... File operations.
< 1252904454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But guize, I heard it passed all the POSIX tests!!!111
< 1252904480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Also, it doesn't even have mmap() or fork().
< 1252904489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() is understandable, mmap() less so: breaks tons of shit.
< 1252904508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is only POSIX compliant if you use the POSIX subsystem.
< 1252904517 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point for mmap.
< 1252904520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion: Cygwin is the only real option. Apart from *maybe* Interix.
< 1252904528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is quite a bit different from what people are used to from Windows.
< 1252904539 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the only real option is to throw Windows in the dumpster.
< 1252904545 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252904546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even the freaking filesystem magically changes behavior)
< 1252904548 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use an OS that doesn't stink to all hell.
< 1252904564 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252904564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: For non-command-liney stuff, I've found Windows superior to "modern" desktop Linux distributions so far.
< 1252904580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its internals and command line environment are shit.
< 1252904594 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steps out before the OS war silliness kills us all.
< 1252904600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has so much momentum behind it that the day-to-day desktop stuff is quite easy to make not suck.
< 1252904607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oh, feel free to argue. I love arguing!
< 1252904614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its GUI makes a 15 year old X environment look consistent.
< 1252904633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use bad software
< 1252904643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And almost all of it is bad.
< 1252904652 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do make it easy to write bad software :)
< 1252904655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to Sturgeon's Law. Windows is the biggest platform, therefore...
< 1252904662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even software that comes with it is rather bad)
< 1252904669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that doesn't blend in atm that I actually use is Chrome, because its toolbar widgets have a custom gradient on and the icons are custom.
< 1252904673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's so subtle as to be irrelevant.
< 1252904681 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252904697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 7's Explorer is actually decent.
< 1252904714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they made that not blatantly different from everything else?
< 1252904769 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252904769 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252904771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most directories use the pleasing list-with-columns view with sane default sizes. There's a customisable shortcut toolbar to the left, and a field in which you can navigate up and down the directory structure at any point.
< 1252904772 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252904777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also serves as a go-to-location field.
< 1252904811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a search field for the current directory (you can change where you want to search after hitting enter) next to that, and all the common option f a file are in a changing toolbar below these.
< 1252904817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good.
< 1252904855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the file you're hovering over is highlighted, which is nice for picking a file out of a long list.
< 1252904868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far better than XP's Explorer, which is worthless.
< 1252904909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You neglect that Chrome also magically doesn't have a titlebar.
< 1252904918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but it does.
< 1252904920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike every other Windows program.
< 1252904928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Vista and XP, it uses the native titlebar.
< 1252904932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just nudges the tabs up into it.
< 1252904934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1252904936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Vista and 7
< 1252904943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Google_Chrome.png
< 1252904958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and? That's what a titlebar looks like with Aero.
< 1252904959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, there, is inconsistency.
< 1252904968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not, it's just different UI design.
< 1252904976 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explorer doesn't have title text either; it doesn't need it
< 1252904981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly
< 1252904985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right below is the hierarchy field
< 1252904986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? Every titlebar has no text in it, no icon, and "Google" right next to the minimize button?
< 1252905002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has no icon, its back/forwards buttons are in the toolbar, along with the location and search field.
< 1252905004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Explorer.
< 1252905026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's only difference is the Google logo (which is unnoticeable), and the fact that the tabs are a little higher than what Explorer does.
< 1252905028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... My point is that doing that shit *sucks giant donkey balls*.
< 1252905032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't.
< 1252905033 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still double-click where the icon should be to close explorer, if you happen to be in a windows 3.1 frame of mind.
< 1252905034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's perfectly usable.
< 1252905053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is OS X "inconsistent" because its toolbar icons are in the "title bar" gradient?
< 1252905054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252905066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's doing things differently from all the other programs on the same OS for no good reason.
< 1252905076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that it isn't different from all other programs.
< 1252905081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is standard Vista-style UI fare.
< 1252905087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? No program has text in the title bar?
< 1252905092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No icons?
< 1252905106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And control widgets are where the text would be in previous iterations of Windows?
< 1252905108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In pikhq's world, every program has the exact same UI and does the same thing because otherwise it'd be different from every other program on the same OS
< 1252905122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's not true. In Explorer they're lower down.
< 1252905124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides
< 1252905125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in chromee
< 1252905127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*chrome
< 1252905128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that every tab is the window
< 1252905138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tab you're on is the title
< 1252905140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ehird's world, forming a strawman is a valid criticism.
< 1252905145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's doing exactly the right thing for its UI
< 1252905160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Chrome's design, that's how it's meant to be: there is no browser UI, the tab is the title bar.
< 1252905178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you be happy if it was slightly higher up and didn't have a background? That's ridiculous.
< 1252905195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers consistent UIs. I even tended to avoid using KDE/Qt programs in GNOME and GNOME/GTK+ programs in KDE
< 1252905225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be happy if it were consistent with other programs' look and feel, rather than creating a custom title bar.
< 1252905250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't custom if other fucking programs do it
< 1252905255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not some weird Chrome thing
< 1252905262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all
< 1252905265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might not be "custom", but it's annoying
< 1252905276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no it's not. Have you ever USED Chrome on Vista/7?
< 1252905279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some weird "some random set of programs do it".
< 1252905280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's completely unnoticeable and perfectly designed.
< 1252905293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: INCLUDING THE FLAGSHIP ORGANIZER SHIPPED WITH THE OS
< 1252905304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MY POINT IS THAT EVEN THE PROGRAMS THAT COME WITH IT SUCK.
< 1252905305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also does the system settings
< 1252905307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them
< 1252905314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do most programs do it Chrome's/Explorer's way?
< 1252905315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THEY RANDOMLY DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY FOR NO GOOD REASON.
< 1252905322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, no point discussing this; you've used XP and think you nkow what's consistent or good or not in 7
< 1252905325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know
< 1252905330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, carry on thinking that
< 1252905332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if you talk about XP, you definately have a point
< 1252905349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the typical UI is on Vista or 7
< 1252905361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, newer programs keep the Aero UI in XP, with some widgets changed.
< 1252905362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, silly! He's talking about an OS he knows from a few screenshots and anecdotes. In other words, he's an expert.
< 1252905373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...what? No. No they don't.
< 1252905376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not true whatsoever.
< 1252905378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are simply wrong.
< 1252905396 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"dalnet"
< 1252905424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way Chrome looks in XP is inconsistent with most XP programs
< 1252905430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is
< 1252905432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am arguing on 7
< 1252905434 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252905441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is too, except he doesn't know shit about 7
< 1252905468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, apparently in 7 the title bar is meaningless.
< 1252905487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius deductions based on anecdote and one screenshot, pal.
< 1252905494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're clever.
< 1252905500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Non sequitur.
< 1252905502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant.
< 1252905512 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The title is unnecessary in explorer because the breadcrumb bar tells you everything you need to know
< 1252905515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, it's not as if the Explorer title bar is like that BECAUSE THE TITLE OF THE FOLDER YOU'RE IN is in the title bar.
< 1252905527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it should be redundant and keep that below the fold while ALSO putting it in the window title.
< 1252905532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that makes sense.
< 1252905542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternate universe: "So, apparently in 7 the title bar is redundant."
< 1252905557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More sense then only some programs having any information in the title bar at all.
< 1252905564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude.
< 1252905567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPLORER HAS THE INFORMATION IN THE TITLE BAR.
< 1252905578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[icon] > Computer > Local Disk (C:) >"
< 1252905581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the folder I am in.
< 1252905584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what would be in the title bar.
< 1252905586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS IN THE TITLE BAR.
< 1252905593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks to be below the title bar to me.
< 1252905604 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the glassy area, so I suppose that counts
< 1252905606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the transparent area above the window contents, i.e. THE TITLE BAR.
< 1252905620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can move the window by it.
< 1252905624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. THE TITLE BAR
< 1252905641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Drag the glass area below the field. Voila, moving. That's what the title bar does.)
< 1252905665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... So UI elements are being stuck in the title bar?
< 1252905712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1252905725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You mean like the program icon, title text, minimize, maximize and close?
< 1252905736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound like UI elements to me.
< 1252905755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. That was poorly phrased.
< 1252905767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also click the program icon for a menu.
< 1252905769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UI element!
< 1252905780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per-program UI elements that are inherently different for each program.
< 1252905794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called discretion.
< 1252905798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You complained that the title bar was bad because it has no information.
< 1252905805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Explorer, the relevant information IS in the title bar.
< 1252905821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also navigable, which is required of such a widget anyway: anything else would be redundance.
< 1252905830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I continue to see a null title bar and an inexplicably glassy portion of the program.
< 1252905831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Chrome, the title of the page IS in the title bar, and highlighted: it's the current tab.
< 1252905835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of these usages are consistent.
< 1252905843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They contain the correct information in the correct way.
< 1252905863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can right click the glassy region below the "widgets" to get the window menu, too.
< 1252905868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is undeniably the title bar.
< 1252905886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't see it that way after using 7 for some time, unless you're really UI-blind.
< 1252905913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact Explorer would be better if it lifted those elements to the top of the title bar, like Chrome.
< 1252905927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now the title bar has some weird padding at the top.
< 1252905932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because I continue to see things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Notepad_Vista.png
< 1252905940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and?
< 1252905949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file location is in the title bar.
< 1252905954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you want.
< 1252905962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's the window menu, and then its contents.
< 1252905965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has quite different titlebar behavior from Explorer or Chrome.
< 1252905973 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252905973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not.
< 1252906040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's quite different. The titlebar is a different size and it shows quite different information.
< 1252906043 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252906076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I will ever change your mind because you have preconceived notions of what is correct and are only engaging in this to convince me, not to bother to be convinced otherwise. I deduce this from your style of debate and persistence.
< 1252906084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to prove me wrong.
< 1252906103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Explorer titlebar doesn't even show the title. Just a directory hierarchy.
< 1252906118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what would be shown in the title bar.
< 1252906121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The directory hierarchy.
< 1252906134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what Explorer's title bar has ALWAYS shown.
< 1252906203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine that showing "Explorer" in the task bar would be more useful then showing the directory hierarchy
< 1252906211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're being sarcastic.
< 1252906217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me?
< 1252906219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252906226 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the task bar, you just get the folder name
< 1252906239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 7 titlebar groups windows into applications (like the OS X Dock but better) and the Window title for other programs is what it used to be.
< 1252906243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not... although I just considered the possibility of multiple Explorer windows, so nevermind
< 1252906247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, Explorer windows, well, look like Explorer Windows.
< 1252906251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not very useful.
< 1252906253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*windows
< 1252906280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just wants every damned program to look the same.
< 1252906300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a ridiculously ill-defined notion.
< 1252906318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably be eating or something
< 1252906319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 has a consistent UI look; you just think it doesn't based on preconceived misconceptions, and I will not convince you otherwise, at least not by talking on IRC.
< 1252906333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on how you define "consistent UI look"
< 1252906341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I said.
< 1252906362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a ridiculously ill-defined notion, but for any definition that isn't close to "every program should have identical graphics and therefore do exactly the same thing" 7 has it.
< 1252906380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Aero, it looks to me almost like doing Qt and GTK on the same system, with them having themes that emulate each other. You get Notepad, which looks like an XP app with a shiny theme, and Explorer, which looks like it's for a *different OS* and happens to have the same widgets.
< 1252906386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, Explorer's title bar is exceedingly usable, so fuck any incorrect ideological notions.
< 1252906402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It does not. You are using preconceived blah blah blah I don't give a shit, you're just repeating the same crap..
< 1252906407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.{2}/./
< 1252906412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels dizzy in his attempt to minorly disagree with ehird
< 1252906420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Imagine if Windows Explorer did the same thing on OS X.
< 1252906423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I attempt to make that as difficult as possible!
< 1252906431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. That was a bad sentence.
< 1252906435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Imagine if a Windows program was on OS X! Wouldn't it be DIFFERENT?
< 1252906442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit, sherlock.
< 1252906445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... -_-'
< 1252906452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, the title bar area in OS X also includes the WHOLE toolbar.
< 1252906456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now you're just being a asshat shitcock fuckoff.
< 1252906460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just the bit relevant to the thing at hand, like the path.
< 1252906463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ignore ehird
< 1252906469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, it's as though I have this notion in my mind that everything ehird says is correct
< 1252906498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, so while I try to end the argument by mildly cursing and saying I don't care anymore, pikhq calls me an asshat shitcock, tells me to fuck off, and sticks his fingers in his ear.
< 1252906501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's totally true.
< 1252906503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252906528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If I said that's false, would your brain overheat and would steam come out of your ears?
< 1252906558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because I'd get the joke. However, this response to that joke just killed the joke.
< 1252906579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns himself in for murdering a joke.
< 1252906624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Almost certainly not everything I say is correct. This is actually true and serious, no joke.
< 1252906658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but I think I'd have difficulty recognizing when you're wrong.
< 1252906687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much identical to saying "If I have an opinion about something, and you have one and it differs I'll disagree" which is... fairly obvious...
< 1252906713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you intentionally saying incorrect things now to see how I'd react?
< 1252906720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the same at all
< 1252906722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no
< 1252906737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes it is, the only way to determine whether something is true or false that you can agree with is to use your opinions
< 1252906767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that if you state an opinion, my mind is likely to adapt that opinion before looking at it critically
< 1252906780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will use this for nefarious purposes.
< 1252907050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION weighs up windows: shit desktop and linux: shit command line...
< 1252907062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really would quite like a Cygwin GHC for a Cygwin darcs...
< 1252907066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd be a huge porting effort
< 1252907100 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252907160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it would be possible/sensible to make a C library of some of the Python standard library
< 1252907182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1252907216 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, it depends which part
< 1252907218 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252907251 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252907260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python's so different to C that it'd be unnatural
< 1252907319 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did say it depends which part. Integer manipulation for example already exists in C.
< 1252907364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is thinking more like urllib2. Isn't integer manipulation more a part of the language?
< 1252907405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urllib2: use libcurl
< 1252907444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does CPython use libcurl?
< 1252907447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't know
< 1252907449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: look at http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/simple.html
< 1252907452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libcurl is easy
< 1252907471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/sepheaders.html more fleshed out example
< 1252907479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(downloads a page and its headers into two files)
< 1252907521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at curlpp
< 1252907559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why are you using C++?
< 1252907569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it's what I'm learning in college right now :/
< 1252907580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's a good reason :P
< 1252907589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://curlpp.org/index.php/examples/47-example-00
< 1252907601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a direct binding of libcurl (except uglier)
< 1252907603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be fine
< 1252907635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need to make a curlpp::Cleanup ?
< 1252907647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get how that works
< 1252907653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still looks nonsensical
< 1252907660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIAA, I guess.
< 1252907665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAEr.
< 1252907665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIAA?
< 1252907666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er.
< 1252907668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAII
< 1252907678 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIRR
< 1252907679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when the Cleanup is destroyed, it deallocates and stuff.
< 1252907697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in the request because you could do multiple requests.
< 1252907698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume.
< 1252907765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, good night all
< 1252907770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1252908360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised why SPUI was called that
< 1252908362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Spui-schematic.svg/792px-Spui-schematic.svg.png
< 1252908594 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it
< 1252908619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: SPUI had a bunch of joking/trolly references to anal sex on his page
< 1252908663 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes both ways... uh...
< 1252908673 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes the underpass...
< 1252908685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it looks like goatse.
< 1252908695 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... oh god...
< 1252908698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252908756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(His page made reference to "single point urban interchange" and he was mostly known for editing transport (including motorway) articles, so it's almost certainly the same thing, even if he didn't see the goatse, which I doubt.)
< 1252908761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk about long-term trolling.
< 1252908768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he was mostly known for trolling, but.
< 1252908843 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i am coming up with ideas for a language on parrot
< 1252908847 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((|> + str) 5 "string")
< 1252908856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parrot's just a VM.
< 1252908860 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what that could do in this hypothetical language is create the left->right junction of the results of (+ 5 "string") and (str 5 "string")
< 1252908862 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1252908869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252908880 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is easier to implement things on there than on, say, C+yacc
< 1252908915 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :junctions are from perl 6, and i can steal from their implementation
< 1252908942 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prefix notation is from lisp, but i don't think i will just use () parentheses
< 1252908943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, being on Parrot isn't a feature of the language.
< 1252908948 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1252908951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252908961 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just meant that was how i was going to do it
< 1252909028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1252909038 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be fairly amazing if someone wrote a parrot bytecode -> java bytecode converter
< 1252909048 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is already the reverse of that
< 1252909058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring
< 1252909063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jvm sucks
< 1252909070 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1252909076 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you prefer C?
< 1252909080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i say that?
< 1252909080 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or .NET?
< 1252909099 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just guessing?
< 1252909101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vm has a startup time so slow it's worthless for command-line tools, the standard library is awkward and verbose to use
< 1252909116 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes
< 1252909117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't actually that many additional libraries for it as the jvmists claim
< 1252909128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its primary GUI library, Swing, is unspeakably bad
< 1252909135 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1252909163 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://substance.dev.java.net/see.html
< 1252909209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing those skins makes me bet that it can't be made to look native.
< 1252909211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see.
< 1252909219 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWT
< 1252909221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look, I don't have the JVM.
< 1252909224 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWT has native look
< 1252909233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't notice because nothing actually uses Java.)
< 1252909239 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you not have the JVM.
< 1252909239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nothing desktop, anyway.)
< 1252909256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: all vm people think theirs is ubiquitous and mandatory :-)
< 1252909270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing with that title on a typical internet-connected desktop is flash
< 1252909277 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i use mac, and all macs come with... python, perl, ruby, and java 5+
< 1252909285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact is that no command-line program uses java, no desktop program uses java
< 1252909297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: i'm actually using Windows 7 right now, but I'm a *nixer
< 1252909312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...although all OSs right now are woefully inadequate and wasteful
< 1252909314 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your sweepping generalizations make me think less of your opinion
< 1252909329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd matter if I was looking to sway your opinion
< 1252909349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm merely stating my experience; no popular program on Windows uses Java apart from OpenOffice, and that only uses it for some things behind the scenes
< 1252909357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I find the same applies to Linux and OS X
< 1252909509 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limewire and eclipse are two big ones
< 1252909526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LimeWire, granted, but LimeWire sucks big time.
< 1252909540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eclipse is only popular with Java developers. (Don't say that C thing. Nobody uses it.)
< 1252909563 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eclipse is slow, but it has helped me a lot
< 1252909574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean it's popular outside of a niche community
< 1252909589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's really overly bloated. Does seven billion things, does none of them well...
< 1252909604 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like emacs
< 1252909607 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Java
< 1252909618 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also like windows and linux
< 1252909629 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mac does even less things than eithe rof those
< 1252909664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs is also terrible
< 1252909671 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you edit with?
< 1252909674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a surprising number of sharp, compact windows tools
< 1252909686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux with the typical gnucrap doesn't do it, indeed
< 1252909708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: right now? i edit small files with notepad2 or programmer's notepad, because I haven't got anything set up for that stuff.
< 1252909718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on os x i mostly used textmate because all the other os x editors suck
< 1252909726 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any large projects?
< 1252909732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for haskell and lisp I used emacs
< 1252909739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: depends how you define large
< 1252909761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you define it high enough, that project is too big to exist (or is it too big to fail? let's bail out Eclipse)
< 1252909778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm absolutely fine as long as I have a file switcher tree of the project to the left
< 1252909780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tabs
< 1252909794 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 1000 LoC in C/++? not small enough to be written and maintained effortlessly
< 1252909795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a window switcher list might be better than tabs if I have an awful lot of files open
< 1252909802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I find I rarely actually actively edit more than a few files
< 1252909814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: 1000? that's a ridiculously low bar, any non-trivial C program will be above that
< 1252909818 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably over 400 in haskell
< 1252909829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: xmonad is like 500 lines...
< 1252909833 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i was just going for "not a script"
< 1252909836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a fully-featured window manager that a ton of people use daily
< 1252909898 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252909898 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252909901 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca
< 1252910051 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you remind me of myself when I'm not on my meds
< 1252910063 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very active and argumentative
< 1252910084 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also write a lot more than when i am
< 1252910472 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252910520 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
< 1252910564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1252910583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: I'm not argumentative, I'm just not adding obvious qualifiers like "I think"
< 1252910592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this is commonly misinterpreted as argumentativeness
< 1252910620 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i make sweeping generalizations when i don't take my meds
< 1252910639 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i am less articulate than you are right now
< 1252910646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will make a note to avoid meds :P
< 1252910668 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will make a note to keep taking meds
< 1252910679 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps me make friends and not go to jail
< 1252910696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have plenty friends, thank you, and I've never committed any harmful crime
< 1252910698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252910712 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't talking about you there
< 1252910728 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably aren't bipolar
< 1252910748 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably don't have Ragin' Cajun Syndrome either
< 1252910794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking :)
< 1252910805 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although many more coders than non-coders have aspergers, myself included
< 1252910829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you aren't another of the self-diagnosed aspergers as an excuse for social incompetency camp...
< 1252910832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are way, way too many of those
< 1252910834 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asperger's syndrome: great syndrome, or the greatest syndrome?
< 1252910859 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, i definitely have it
< 1252910870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diagnosed?
< 1252910873 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 4 doctors would testify in court
< 1252910890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, now my only qualm is the incredible vagueness of its definition :-P
< 1252910910 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them shouldn't have been given birth certificates, much less doctorates...
< 1252910934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as someone who has been tentatively-diagnosed (but not diagnosed) with aspergers, after researching I find it a shaky and dubious vagueness...)
< 1252910975 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is pretty useful when you just want to do one thing
< 1252910981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1252910997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant I find it dubious as a condition
< 1252911001 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people with asperger's tend to be abnormally good at focusing on a specific task that they are born to do
< 1252911008 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"born to do"
< 1252911014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit
< 1252911018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not born to do anything
< 1252911030 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence the air quotes
< 1252911057 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i typed the quotes with fingers in the air
< 1252911070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an impressive feat
< 1252911140 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have a knack for game development, which has less to do with the asperger's giving me skill and more to do with the asperger's making me especially interested in the subject
< 1252911199 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, i get too interested in the designs and i start switching around to the game that interests me most at the given time
< 1252911206 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the bipolar not the AS
< 1252911206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of the things that are claimed Asperger's brings.
< 1252911222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That sentence is truly awkward.)
< 1252911234 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awkward this sentence is truly
< 1252911247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least mine was valid in a non-poetic sense.
< 1252911259 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now that's argumentative
< 1252911271 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least competitive
< 1252911275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on earth is that argumentative?
< 1252911297 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be trying to prove your statements are better
< 1252911318 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite mine being ajoke
< 1252911327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, play it again, Freud. I was joking that my sentence was a funner example of an awkward sentence since an invalid sentence outside of a poetic context is just that, not awkward.
< 1252911349 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, we have aspergers! we can't identify jokes
< 1252911360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew yours was a joke, actually.
< 1252911371 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, you don't have aspergers
< 1252911378 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have...
< 1252911384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously we weren't seriously debating the relative merits of awkward sentences...
< 1252911385 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ragin cajun syndrome
< 1252911393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously! Issue: I'm British.
< 1252911408 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was named after dr. ragin' cajun
< 1252911420 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symptoms:
< 1252911422 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ragin
< 1252911426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cajun
< 1252911429 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, symptom
< 1252911438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot cajuning.
< 1252911465 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, are you a quack doctor like me now? :-P
< 1252911480 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having seen enough of them, i should know their tricks
< 1252911494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm an inverse homeopath
< 1252911511 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you love you some western medicine
< 1252911520 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here
< 1252911529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I start with water, and continually dilute it in the thing that causes the ailment until there's less than one part in a trillion water
< 1252911533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I give it to the patient
< 1252911538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they, uh
< 1252911540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually die.
< 1252911556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the state considers me a homicidal murderer, but I prefer inverse homeopath
< 1252911563 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kid went to my school who gave up gluten to see if it would stop his high-functioning autism
< 1252911563 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't
< 1252911580 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was still an annoying moron
< 1252911587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that even mean? "I want to become a social idiot?"
< 1252911609 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, gluten rules
< 1252911640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should make meat with added gluten.
< 1252911645 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quorn
< 1252911646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be, like, the best thing ever. To eat.
< 1252911658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quorn doesn't have any meat, dude.
< 1252911669 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is meat+
< 1252911670 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn
< 1252911673 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1252911674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's protein
< 1252911675 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has eggs
< 1252911677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not meat
< 1252911683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not dead flesh
< 1252911701 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has unliving flesh
< 1252911707 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egg whites count as that
< 1252911721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, no
< 1252911726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meat is meat, egg is just an animal product.
< 1252911729 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do egg yolks?
< 1252911753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not meat unless it's the same flesh as would be if it was alive and then died.
< 1252911754 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egg yolks become meat
< 1252911754 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-meat
< 1252911764 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i'm going to fry up some pre-chickens, you want any?"
< 1252911772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lab-created never-living flesh counts, dead animal flesh counts
< 1252911773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing else
< 1252911779 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1252911784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is DELICIOUS (well, just the latter at the moment)
< 1252911784 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oil then
< 1252911797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it
< 1252911801 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crude oil is long-dead animal flesh
< 1252911816 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also plant material
< 1252911818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buuuuuuuuullshit
< 1252911822 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too
< 1252911825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not flesh, it's stuff that used to be flesh
< 1252911830 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like meat?
< 1252911836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meat is flesh.
< 1252911854 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when does meat cease to be flesh?
< 1252911857 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cook a steak
< 1252911859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY MEAT DAMNIT
< 1252911860 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burn a steak
< 1252911899 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am designing a language, i have to be precise here and count for all interpretations :-P
< 1252911909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your programming language includes a notion of meat?
< 1252911913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awesome!
< 1252911946 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am in programing-language-design mode, is what i mean
< 1252911954 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anal-retentive
< 1252911990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca retends anuses
< 1252911991 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this chatroom could help
< 1252912004 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my anus-retending
< 1252912018 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252912022 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i want this language to have 3 big features:
< 1252912040 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code-as-data, currying, and junctions
< 1252912040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Careful, you've set me into ruthlessly-criticise-language mode.
< 1252912042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MAY BE FLAMMABLE.
< 1252912053 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from lisp, haskell, and perl 6
< 1252912068 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, you like lisp and haskell well enough
< 1252912071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what a junction is, but damnit, I cannot possibly criticize the other two
< 1252912084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You suck :P
< 1252912097 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :junctions allow a datum to be two or more things at once
< 1252912129 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6#Junctions
< 1252912151 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it better than i can in short messages
< 1252912160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, superpositions.
< 1252912167 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252912182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're nice. When I started programming I was always baffled I couldn't do (foo == (1 | 2 | 3)).
< 1252912189 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the addition is here is ordered unctions
< 1252912193 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*junctions
< 1252912245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds scary.
< 1252912249 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have the ordered junction of two functions, you can iterate through the junction returned until you find a result that isn't an error
< 1252912257 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funjun
< 1252912277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have a ca, so you can have a cajun
< 1252912278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1252912282 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in perl 6, they are always unordered
< 1252912282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n\?/?/
< 1252912319 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuations, uh...
< 1252912319 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cojun...
< 1252912319 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm...
< 1252912383 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail just gave me a sweet ad
< 1252912384 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mongolia Travel - www.DiscoverMongolia.mn - Tours, Hotels, Flights and Trains. Get Affordable Rates. Book Today!
< 1252912418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you thought that Mongolia was just the land of Genghis Khan, think again."
< 1252912420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn
< 1252912422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was just booking my ticket
< 1252912455 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of calling this language Khan back when it was more like haskell in syntax
< 1252912480 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because genghis khan used arrows extensively, as would this language
< 1252912485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1252912497 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, i don't know
< 1252912502 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did make a nice logo
< 1252912586 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3396/khano.png i think
< 1252912600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst maze ever
< 1252912613 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is phags-pa
< 1252912620 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language used by the khans
< 1252912625 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(later khans)
< 1252912639 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says qa-yan, translated as khan
< 1252912778 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, it needs little pictures of scooby-doo and the various things that aren't the guy wearing a mask
< 1252912786 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one image of the guy who is
< 1252912801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut
< 1252912810 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have hanna-barbara cartoons in britain, you aren't missing out
< 1252912817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course we do
< 1252912821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to figure out the relevance :P
< 1252912826 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maze
< 1252912834 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a little kid's thing
< 1252912836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst reference ever :P
< 1252912843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see
< 1252912847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like those puzzle things on easter eggs and shit
< 1252912851 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252912864 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it so no one would use the language
< 1252912869 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a worthy goal...?
< 1252912888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows
< 1252912922 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the omnipotent benevolent personified deity, the great Satan?
< 1252912975 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at christianity today, it seems like satan gets credited with more than the benevolent side of god
< 1252912984 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and god causes hurricane katrina
< 1252912991 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he can't be benevolent
< 1252913000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean... christians are irrational?
< 1252913001 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that leaves satan
< 1252913002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never would I ever have guessed.
< 1252913012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not "today"; god kills far more people than satan in the bible
< 1252913016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he's kind of a dick.
< 1252913023 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :satan isn't in the old testament
< 1252913031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was talking about god
< 1252913036 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(omg lowercase)
< 1252913038 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the serpent is
< 1252913048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wat.
< 1252913070 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiiiiiiiiiiii coppro
< 1252913075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if god gets capitalized pronouns, there's got to be something wrong with spelling his name uncapitalized
< 1252913085 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, wrong religion, not angkor wat
< 1252913089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: hi
< 1252913098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g*d
< 1252913100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nix
< 1252913105 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you a professional cop or a reference to coprophilia?
< 1252913110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: neither
< 1252913111 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope the former
< 1252913113 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: neither
< 1252913118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we joke about the latter!
< 1252913129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you suck. eat shit!
< 1252913130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT
< 1252913132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DO
< 1252913133 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I deride your ability to read
< 1252913140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I actually thought *nix was like g*d when I was young, before ever using any *nix
< 1252913141 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
< 1252913151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like programmers exalted unix so much that they refused to spell the u
< 1252913153 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be great
< 1252913156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like jews and shit with g*d
< 1252913163 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'looooooooooooooooo
< 1252913166 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only programmers could agree on something
< 1252913184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nix doesn't even make any sense, it's not Linix
< 1252913191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't even Freanix
< 1252913192 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*n?x
< 1252913198 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.*n.?x
< 1252913202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so BSD is out then?
< 1252913211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: that second ? is odd
< 1252913213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a Unx
< 1252913216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{*n?x,*BSD}
< 1252913221 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what happened with judaism not allowing YHWH to be spoken and the Jehovah's Witnesses making the romanization of YHWH into the name of their religion?
< 1252913228 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1252913236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Solaris
< 1252913240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ssh
< 1252913242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol Jehovah's Witnesses
< 1252913255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like jehovah's poopnesses
< 1252913263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amirite
< 1252913268 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a jehovah's witness knocks on a rabbi's door
< 1252913273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, what about ssh? I think you mean *shh :P
< 1252913277 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rabbi covers his ears, goes "lalalalalala"
< 1252913296 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i would too
< 1252913311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it
< 1252913321 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been very nice to jehovah's witnesses when they come to the door
< 1252913326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a really bad joke:
< 1252913327 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when i close the door
< 1252913329 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i yelll
< 1252913332 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAIL SATAN
< 1252913335 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An Irishman walks out of the door.
< 1252913346 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a bar.
< 1252913348 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs sleep
< 1252913359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never had the opportunity of conversing with a jehovah's witness
< 1252913365 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not a foo?
< 1252913369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be fun to have them go away deeply disturbed at this satanic 14-year-old
< 1252913369 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, are you mssing out
< 1252913378 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on nothing
< 1252913380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i guess by 14 they can chalk it off to teenage rebellion
< 1252913381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a shame
< 1252913389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: yeah they seem very boring
< 1252913392 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need an old guy to do it
< 1252913400 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or answer the door
< 1252913404 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just speak in tongues
< 1252913410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.*n.?x would match qnx, although it's debatable whether that's a good thing.
< 1252913420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1252913427 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qnx?
< 1252913430 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a thing?
< 1252913441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a real-timey sort of an OS.
< 1252913454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aimed primarily at the embedded systems market".
< 1252913576 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see
< 1252913587 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this channel is heating up
< 1252913604 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I got to go in another ~20 mins
< 1252913611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( embedded systems
< 1252913611 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's not a binary not
< 1252913637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefly: you're 20 minutes late. Go now!
< 1252913645 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I start in 50 minutes
< 1252913688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the unary binary not.
< 1252913699 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not
< 1252913709 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... ouch...
< 1252913709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just said it's "not".
< 1252913725 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there the lack of a comma after "No" has an important meaning
< 1252913750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not that not, then it must be the Awk regular-expression matching operator, but it doesn't really seem to make sense there.
< 1252913772 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy, #nethack has gotten into a MMO debate
< 1252913783 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some languages isn't ~ the marker for negative numbers?
< 1252913802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so
< 1252913806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also, of course, used for matching
< 1252913815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too, but can't name one right now.
< 1252913835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's of course also the INTERCAL "select" operator.
< 1252913842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's binary
< 1252913870 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my chicken scratchings, ~ usually ends up as being used for matching
< 1252913878 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Always actually spell out "approx." when in #esoteric
< 1252913892 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To avoid discussions about the choice of symbol
< 1252913897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think this pedanticness is annoying.
< 1252913935 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying?
< 1252913939 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define annoying
< 1252913943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoying.
< 1252913946 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1252913965 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~~ being used as the "matches" operator, which may be cheaper, for instance because an RE engine doesn't need to capture
< 1252913997 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the other way round, if I decide that double-symbols mean bitwise and single mean logical
< 1252914061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is video game music so awesome?
< 1252914077 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252914089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked that before.
< 1252914093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is that it isn't for the most part.
< 1252914199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to get audio working here sometime.
< 1252914207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again Cygwin's crappiness is putting me off this.
< 1252914232 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252914289 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did I?
< 1252914303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A day or two ago.
< 1252914312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No answers, though.
< 1252914347 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1252914392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :video game music isn't necessarily the best out there, but it beats the hell out of the radio
< 1252914421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does everything.
< 1252914646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252914699 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252914824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers getting Arch Linux working
< 1252914836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it failed pretty badly the last time...
< 1252915008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not even sure if Chromium is usable on Linux yet... nor do I know if there's a better graphical IRC client than X-Chat... graphical IRC on linux tends to suck ime
< 1252915120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the font rendering beats ClearType... although not the fonts.
< 1252915172 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off to school ->
< 1252915189 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later"
< 1252915199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1252915200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252915872 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252916023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool Should I try to install Arch Linux?
< 1252916037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7?
< 1252916039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool
< 1252916040 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252916056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure that I shouldn't try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7? Last chance.
< 1252916058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool
< 1252916059 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252916065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then should I try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7?
< 1252916067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool
< 1252916067 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1252916074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure that I shouldn't try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7? Last chance... again.
< 1252916075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool
< 1252916076 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252916081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fuck you.
< 1252916172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bot's quite a waffler.
< 1252916311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you both think I should try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7 and are sure?
< 1252916313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool
< 1252916313 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1252916316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1252916344 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glio.
< 1252916357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: gliosperous
< 1252916413 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252916424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1252916558 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gliovorous fog
< 1252916585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glio becoming gliosperous in the gliovorous fog
< 1252916608 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well who wouldn't become sperous in a fog that's out to get you
< 1252916628 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do my swedish homework :|
< 1252916640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bork bork bork
< 1252916684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: should i
< 1252917032 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know
< 1252917040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1252917046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know everything
< 1252917049 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do my swedish homework and maybe i will
< 1252917055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1252917117 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although transcribing the a4 article to you in priv might be slightly more work than just reading it
< 1252917255 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyone read complexity theory companion? it looks rather promising
< 1252917285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1252917366 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Be more esoteric!"
< 1252917499 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complexity theory is very esoteric, actually the whole preface of the book is about how esoteric it is
< 1252917747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should teach courses on random shit
< 1252917764 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"most people view complexity theory as an arcane realm populated by pointy-hatted (if not indeed pointy-headed) sorcerers stirring cauldrons of recursion theory with wands of combinatorics, while chanting incantations involving complexity classes whose very names contain hundreds of characters and sear the tongues of mere mortals"
< 1252917778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the deal is, someone gives you some money and then they can go wherever you are and you teach them about a random esoteric topic that you haven't before, unplanned
< 1252917788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like once a week for three months
< 1252917792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be great
< 1252917800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, 10 people doing it
< 1252917824 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be great, but i'm not a very good teacher :)
< 1252917835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the end you'd have a grasp of theundecidable asymptomatic complexity theory when applied to faux-regular metalanguages
< 1252917837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the undecidable
< 1252917838 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to be slightly too formal
< 1252917840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other stuff
< 1252917853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*also, only one space before the
< 1252917866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to bake cauliflower using only two sticks
< 1252917892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to use a fire to power a computer, explained with a shitload of esoteric physics
< 1252917904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the cyclic syntactical structures of fractal systems
< 1252917909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff
< 1252917990 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, those are my areas of expertise.
< 1252917999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much
< 1252918028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, everything about graphs ever
< 1252918192 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read half of the material of our graph theory course (for funsies), i knew about 3/50 of the theorems beforehand
< 1252918249 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, more, but stll i wouldn't say i know *any* graph theory
< 1252918251 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still
< 1252918260 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i basically just know what graphs are
< 1252918266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1252918268 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they are sexy beasts
< 1252918276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you'd learn it
< 1252918278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while teaching us
< 1252918279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly
< 1252918288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, sitting there with a textbook
< 1252918303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very long latency
< 1252918331 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish they lectured the graph theory course this year too, was too busy to take it last year
< 1252918345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible
< 1252918352 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, usually they wait a few years before repeating
< 1252918365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean business.
< 1252918384 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most students use at least 3 years for their master's
< 1252918389 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are lazy
< 1252918390 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1252918407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was pretty busy, not as busy as i am now, but anyway
< 1252918537 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were actually a few courses i didn't take just because i thought i had enough.
< 1252918565 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which naturally bugs me to death, have to fight the urge to do the homework for those courses just because
< 1252918637 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i am done.
< 1252918641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a distributed computing (the theoretical aspect of it, no engineeringy things) seminar course about a book; the professor hadn't read it, and said that he just arranged the seminar course to have the students present the contents to help motivate him to read it, as well as to find the interesting parts.
< 1252918651 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's game theory time
< 1252918669 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1252918725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game theory? more like lame theory
< 1252918734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252918734 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252918743 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252918805 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game theory is fun
< 1252918809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME
< 1252918811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEORY
< 1252918891 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lecturer sucks though, much of what he says is incomprehensible because of his weird accent, and the homework usually lacks some of the crucial definitions, so you have to guess the question first
< 1252918918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn
< 1252918935 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, i was being on your side there
< 1252918942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just yawning
< 1252918944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i am most tired
< 1252918954 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i finally learned to suppress a yawn
< 1252918965 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually used the last lecture to train it
< 1252918968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can do that, but it makes me feel like crap
< 1252918985 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you forget you were about to yawn
< 1252918989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1252919008 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant by suppressing, obviously anyone can just *not yawn*
< 1252919044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can your mother
< 1252919046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think so
< 1252919060 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt she's interested in random body control exercises.
< 1252919072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they involve HER GENITALIA
< 1252919076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1252919080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1252919102 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total zinger
< 1252919106 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go see ya
< 1252919107 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1252919111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i zinged your mom
< 1252919113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bed
< 1252919115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night
< 1252919245 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be so cool to father you a brother
< 1252919315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.
< 1252919347 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i haven't understood the concept of mum jokes yet
< 1252919398 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it, i'd be like your stepfather, you could sit in my lap and hear stories about complexity theory
< 1252919955 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, my touchpad went crazy, the pointer keeps moveing randomly in circles when i touch the pad
< 1252919967 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means*moving
< 1252919970 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1252919996 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means buttons are almost impossible to press, because you have to press at the exact right moment
< 1252920066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nub ftw (I'm not having another clit joke incident)
< 1252920074 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit it's getting worse
< 1252920075 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252920079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disable the trackpad
< 1252920081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the kb
< 1252920088 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably restart the computer
< 1252920088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can turn on using the numpad to mouserise
< 1252920090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in windows
< 1252920115 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have a numpad, and i know that, and i don't know where that is on vista, and i don't like using it
< 1252920125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do, it's just fn-some letters
< 1252920127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly
< 1252920132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most laptops have a numpad overlaid on fn
< 1252920135 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, but that's even more annoying.
< 1252920145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a fun challenge
< 1252920158 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252920162 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if i like fun challenges!
< 1252920172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's control panel -> ease of access -> change mouse works blah -> turn on mouse keys on 7 at least
< 1252920176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite similar to vista
< 1252920188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can make it focus a window when you hover over it.
< 1252920188 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather
< 1252920191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useless.
< 1252921253 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252921280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably should've read what you said, i'm not exactly that good at navigating without the mouse
< 1252921289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so searching for the mouse thing was rather hard
< 1252921296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was under "make the mouse easier to use"
< 1252921311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1252921319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"change how your mouse works" for me
< 1252921342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked at the mouse options
< 1252921360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason i thought that's where mouse options would be.
< 1252921365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1252921377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn on the ctrl/shift to ac/decelerate
< 1252921384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's painfully slow to get moving otherwise
< 1252921407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also apart from the fact i always forget to put numlock on/off, i love this
< 1252921433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's as fast as it can be now, so pressing ctrl actually makes it move too fast
< 1252921441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably slow it down a bit and use ctrl
< 1252921455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default setting it like one pixel a sec
< 1252921480 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252921495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even at full it's slow to get moving for me
< 1252921516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can't change direction without losing momentum, which is annoying
< 1252921536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at full speed + ctrl, i can't move it less than half the screen
< 1252921543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway now it's perfect
< 1252921592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there was an ui that changed constantly
< 1252921597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a
< 1252921624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i pronounced it in finnish
< 1252921661 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252921673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1252921686 0 :oklofog!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252921816 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaand i'm gone again
< 1252921818 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------------------>
< 1252921827 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252922788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252923088 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252925216 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252926280 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252926322 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252926535 0 :fizzie!i=fis@83.150.124.63 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252926848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Police 'encouraged' to hack more
< 1252926850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Home Office has signed up to an EU strategy against cybercrime that "encourages" police across Europe to remotely access personal computers.]]
< 1252926851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1252926853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one step closer to fascism
< 1252926877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK's politics might be better (but not by much) than America's, but our day-to-day oppression is far worse
< 1252927140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs install time
< 1252927147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252928861 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it"
< 1252928946 0 :atrapado!n=roper@19.55.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252930003 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252931007 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-41-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252931032 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252931366 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
< 1252932792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1252933404 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252933825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252933826 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252933917 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252933917 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252934847 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252935359 0 :ehird!n=ding@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252935385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, even in AUR it seems that arch linux has no package for the beautiful pristine Hobbit netcat, untouched by any patches
< 1252935414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want IPv6, I don't want super-hardened super-ugly OpenBSD crap, I don't want whatever Debian did to it and I definitely don't want any netcat clones... just give me netcat...
< 1252935435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess I'll be compiling that myself. Anyone alive? I haven't installed X yet.
< 1252935534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess not. I'll go install X now, and then some window manager.
< 1252935536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1252935575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, the "let's keep silent so ehird thinks the channel is empty" conspiracy succeeded magnificentiously.
< 1252936690 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently
< 1252936691 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252936875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252936875 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1252936933 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252936933 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252937160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252937467 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252937490 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly
< 1252937589 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252937754 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1252937774 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252937873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doesn't your fspace_vector_is_cardinal (and the same thing in vector.c) have an unnecessary test? You do x = ABS(v->x), y = ABS(v->y) and then return false if x+y != 1, which is good; but then you also return false if "x && y". At that test, you already know that x+y == 1 and both are positive integers; it's not really possible for "x && y" to be true, since then x+y would be at least 2.
< 1252937948 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252938070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (And related to previous, are you sure that ABS is safe? I see you cast it to unsigned, but I doubt that really helps; abs/llabs returns something signed and the documentation for them says it's undefined behaviour if the result is not representable, which it is for the -2^(N-1) case.)
< 1252938539 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-162.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252940166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The former sounds like something the optimizer might pick up on.
< 1252941313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm possibly
< 1252941339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how comes you looked at that?
< 1252941407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just browsing." I've been doing some jitfunge cleanup lately, just peeked a bit at your guts.
< 1252941413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252941416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, must go to shoppery now, away.
< 1252941615 0 :MigoMipo!n=chatzill@84-217-0-162.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252942353 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252942431 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252943909 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252943950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: the UK TV advertising wavelengths are currently satuated with insurance price comparison website adverts
< 1252943956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly, we need a price comparison comparison website
< 1252944067 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol so meta~
< 1252944212 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252944299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo chown -R ais523:ais523 /home/ais523/.gnupg/*
< 1252944313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why that ended up set to root:root anyway
< 1252944424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can you think of a better, but equally fast way?
< 1252944435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropping the un-needed test of course
< 1252944887 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1252945355 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1252945601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to understand Slashdot groupthink
< 1252945612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft's tests find that the worst-case upgrade time for Windows 7 is about 20 hours
< 1252945617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot accuse Microsoft of spreading FUD
< 1252945685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err. I thought slashdot was against windows 7
< 1252945688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or windows
< 1252945690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all
< 1252945695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, mostly
< 1252945701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's a strong counter-contingent that's in favour
< 1252945711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just, accusing Microsoft of spreading FUD about Windows is ridiculous
< 1252945747 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252946003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1252946821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, I saw a laptop with a circular touchpad today
< 1252946828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1252946853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a packard bell
< 1252947524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any good reason to have a rectangular screen btw?
< 1252947539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to pack into memory in a quick-to-unpack way
< 1252947543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252947547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplicative addressing on the video RAM is pretty simple
< 1252947561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there are technical reasons why you'd want to make a cathode-ray-tube screen rectangualr
< 1252947564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rectangular
< 1252947564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, polar coordinates for the pixels on screen would be kind of interesting though
< 1252947574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they don't apply as much to CRTs
< 1252947580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this would not apply to LCD I guess?
< 1252947586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as much to LCDs
< 1252947597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, you generally want all the pixels to be the same shape
< 1252947602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make a circular screen hard
< 1252947618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it wouldn't rule out, say, hexagonal or triangluar screens
< 1252947631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexagonal sounds fun
< 1252947654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also weren't those old radars circular?
< 1252947663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the displays I mean
< 1252947665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because the range of the radar was circular
< 1252947671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they didn't want to waste phosphor
< 1252947689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are those technical reasons then you mentioned?
< 1252947699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to do with the way that the electron beam is steered
< 1252947712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok
< 1252947714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking, you can aim at a rectangular region
< 1252947748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1252948280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea if there is a parallel gzip implementation?
< 1252948289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if that even is possible
< 1252948290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't
< 1252948301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clearly possible, sort-of
< 1252948308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that you could just cut the file up and zip each part separately
< 1252948382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant in a way so that it can be unpacked by standard gunzip
< 1252948393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or parallel unpacking from standard gzip
< 1252948411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not
< 1252948421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252948429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a parallel bzip2 iirc
< 1252948435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed compatible
< 1252948564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be possible; I mean, you can do a zlib full-flush (which discards the dictionary pretty much) at any point you want, and the inflater must survive that.
< 1252948582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a bit suboptimal if you split it into too tiny pieces, though.
< 1252948592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zlib.net/pigz/
< 1252948670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah wb.
< 1252948683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about the question above about better implementation of that function?
< 1252948695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be equally fast
< 1252948708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the current ones compiles to very good asm on x86/x86_64 at least
< 1252948721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llabs/abs being inlined iirc.
< 1252948728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, intrinsics
< 1252948763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't have any obviously fast one; and of course compilation is compiler-dependant.
< 1252948813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in general I optimise for gcc
< 1252948829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it do abs/llabs, incidentally?
< 1252948857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, let me check, was a while ago I last looked
< 1252948916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they'd stick me in front of an assembler with no Internet connection and no references available, I'd probably write something like "test rN, rN; jns .skip; neg rN; .skip:" but maybe there's something clevererer.
< 1252948931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which dialect is that?
< 1252948957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems to use sarl
< 1252948964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for -DUSE32
< 1252949007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the abs() code is jump free even
< 1252949029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when it gets to the actual tests are there jumps
< 1252949037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf does abs by adding 128 and seeing if there's a carry
< 1252949059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you can tell if there's a carry by seeing if you go to 0 at any point during the addition loop)
< 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sarl $31, %eax #, tmp63
< 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : movl %eax, %ecx # tmp63, x
< 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : xorl (%rdi), %ecx # .x, x
< 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : subl %eax, %ecx # tmp63, x
< 1252949103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like the relevant code for x
< 1252949112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use sign-magnitude, then abs is trivial
< 1252949152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, two complement is what I'm stuck with :P
< 1252949163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, the ".foo" local-label was from nasm, but it's not certainly unique there. And nasm doesn't support ;s to separate instructions, I don't think, it's just that I wanted it on one line. And "rN" is standing for "rax, rbx, ..., r8, r9, ..."
< 1252949179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doing it in a circuit, you'd xor every bit with the top bit, then half-add the old top bit to the resutl
< 1252949181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*result
< 1252949216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mhm. That doesn't seem to make sense to me, but it works, and profiling showed it was fastest
< 1252949231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is called a lot in every ip moving, it is quite performance criticial
< 1252949232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(half-addition is like addition, but it can only add 0 or 1; and it takes exactly half the circuitry that a full adder does)
< 1252949237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot,*
< 1252949253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, that works more or less exactly the same way as that hardware implementation I described
< 1252949278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's pretty nifty.
< 1252949280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh I thought you were describing what the asm did?
< 1252949282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's using a different temporary
< 1252949286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I was working out out from scratch
< 1252949299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it has to, what with the thing being passed by reference
< 1252949308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that may be suboptimal
< 1252949314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's using a 32-bit value that's 0 or -1 as the temporary
< 1252949317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on x86_64, but probably best on x86
< 1252949321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a 1-bit value that's 0 or 1
< 1252949324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1252949345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, 32 bits is as cheap as 1 bit on a 32-bit processor
< 1252949353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, what happens for the most negative case?
< 1252949359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it was undef according to docs
< 1252949363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really irritating
< 1252949371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: returns the same value, I think
< 1252949378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252949387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why do you care about abs on every IP move?
< 1252949414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well no, not every one, but rather every wrap around,
< 1252949416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, a jump-free test will be faster than a jumpy one, almost always
< 1252949419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it matters
< 1252949435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the test takes the same branch almost every time
< 1252949446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mispredicted jumps require flushing the entire pipeline
< 1252949456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There was some cautioning in the manuals not to blindly think that conditional moves and sets would be faster even though there's no jump involved.
< 1252949461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, it isn't as bad on modern cpus as it was on pentium4
< 1252949475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or s/even though/because/ but anyway.
< 1252949478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: correct, it depends on the processor
< 1252949485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes what fizzie said, due to execution resources usage
< 1252949493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example
< 1252949496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other reasons iirc
< 1252949582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if it does return the same value, and then you cast that to unsigned, I think it would then turn out to be the correct 2^(N-1) unsigned number.
< 1252949591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252949607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it works, it just isn't guaranteed to.
< 1252949643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think many people use the largest negative delta in their programs.
< 1252949719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and if they are, it hardly matters whether it's positive or not
< 1252949725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you come to the same place both ways round
< 1252949746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but "undefined behaviour" is not that limited.
< 1252949751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1252949810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It can matter if the instruction you hit is something that depends on the delta
< 1252949816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the context; AnMaster is testing for "is this vector cardinal" by checking for abs(x) + abs(y) == 1, basically. (And the cardinality test is to use faster wrapping in that case.)
< 1252949835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, good point; but are there any non-fingerprint instructions that would care?
< 1252949857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y couldn't report the abs value of the most negative int
< 1252949857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] come to mind, but they just shunt the problem one instruction ahead.
< 1252949863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1252949869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and [ and ] just leave you back in the previous situation
< 1252949870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y reports the delta, so that's one.
< 1252949882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: except, Befunge has no representation for INT_MAX+1
< 1252949891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would have to report the negative value
< 1252949909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. y wouldn't use the is cardinal test
< 1252949914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, yes.
< 1252949922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do people use wrapping in Befunge-98 programs, by the way?
< 1252949931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, quite often
< 1252949939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it may be the shortest way
< 1252949942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to where you want to go
< 1252949951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 needs it quite a bit; in Befunge-98, though, it would tend to make programs less extensible
< 1252949960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: {, which sets the storage offset to position + delta?
< 1252949960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and almost all the time it is cardinal wrapping
< 1252949968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because non-cardinal wrapping is such a pain
< 1252949980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: comes to the same location both ways round
< 1252949983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, that brings you back to the same point as well
< 1252949991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, have you tried to give GCC the logical condition what you want -- something like "(x == 0 && (y == 1 || y == -1)) ||(y == 0 && (x == 1 ||x == -1))" -- and see what it optimizes to? It might be a bit too complicated-and-explicit to yield something extremely clever, but you never know.
< 1252950031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then no, I don't think there are any outside fingerprints.
< 1252950060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x*y == 1 seems like an obvious way to do that
< 1252950088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... although n*2^32+1 isn't prime for all n, so you'd have to make sure it didn't carry
< 1252950095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, multiplication can be slow
< 1252950098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the processor
< 1252950114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er... given that in all true cases either x or y is zero, I don't see how x*y == 1 tests for it.
< 1252950117 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean x*y == 0 && (y*y+x*x == 1)?
< 1252950124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Incidentally, have you tried to give GCC the logical condition what you want -- something like "(x == 0 && (y == 1 || y == -1)) || (y == 0 && (x == 1 || x == -1))" -- and see what it optimizes to? It might be a bit too complicated-and-explicit to yield something extremely clever, but you never know. <-- iirc it was something with lots of jumps
< 1252950219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: oh, good point, that's probably slowr
< 1252950239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of wrapping, it's awful in jitfunge, since when you go and 'p' something outside the existing space bounds, I'll have to reconsider all traces that have wrapped that way, to see if they'd have instead hit whatever you put there.
< 1252950323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of the same hassle with ;; jumps -- compiled traces containing those need to care if someone puts a semicolon inside there.
< 1252950329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can easily think of programs where even CCBI will beat jitfunge
< 1252950341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the worst case scenarios seems rather bad
< 1252950358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding a single semicolon between two existing semicolons strikes me as very bad coding practice
< 1252950369 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It strikes me as awesome
< 1252950372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would the point even be?
< 1252950384 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commenting out code at runtime
< 1252950384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1252950388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for a Funge program it might well be an awesome way to redirect some code to go completely differently.
< 1252950442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think heavy self-modification will ever be very fast with jitfunge. It'd need a bit more heuristics that I want to implement to realize things like "okay, now you're messing around too much with this area, I'll just fall back to interpreting here and skip the JITting".
< 1252950467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which adds some overhead of tracking that
< 1252950500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw I thought about an interesting different way to beat slowdown
< 1252950515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Beat"?
< 1252950516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be sane for other purposes though
< 1252950518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :P
< 1252950535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, make your value column indexed
< 1252950538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, to win the fight against the final boss in slowdown.
< 1252950538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think SQL
< 1252950557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added a boss? My bad, I'll fix that
< 1252950561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would work for cardinal workaround
< 1252950567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wraparound*
< 1252950568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least
< 1252950578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't worked out details for non-cardinal yet
< 1252950597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why not have a flag saying whether the IP is cardinal or not
< 1252950601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that every delta-changing command sets?
< 1252950608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be faster or slower
< 1252950617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that happens a lot more often than wraparound though in general
< 1252950628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1252950629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it sounds to me like a clear pessimiation
< 1252950631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly it's <>^v
< 1252950637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would just be setting the flag to a known value
< 1252950650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use x a lot in my own code though.
< 1252950658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm
< 1252950666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I read somewhere that TraceMonkey keeps execution counters for JavaScript statements, and only JITs "hot" spots.
< 1252950679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I doubt x is more common than wraparound
< 1252950734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, worth a try when I have time. I really was just looking for fixing the bug today, because I'm busy with uni currently
< 1252950750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but will put it in todo
< 1252950888 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat"
< 1252950979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess C doesn't specify what the unary - will do to INT_MIN on a system where |INT_MAX| < |INT_MIN|? What with being so tight-lipped about signed integer wrap-around in general.
< 1252951123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1252952285 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252952918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1252952922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably
< 1252953642 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1252953848 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, aren't most signed overflows undefined behaviour?
< 1252953880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc
< 1252953896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read it hours ago
< 1252953899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks
< 1252953949 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess about what -INT_MIN will do if |INT_MAX| < |INT_MIN| is 'undefined behavour'.
< 1252953963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, same
< 1252953965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, google seems down
< 1252953973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is the reasonable guess.
< 1252953989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, not
< 1252954017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what it would do in pracice, I would guess -INT_MIN => INT_MIN.
< 1252954024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c -INT_MIN
< 1252954026 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile.
< 1252954033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph
< 1252954034 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c 1
< 1252954052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : huh, google seems down <-- works here?
< 1252954053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INT_MIN is in limits.h, I think
< 1252954056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really remember enough C to know what to import
< 1252954060 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limits.h
< 1252954061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might not be in the standard headers
< 1252954068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that EgoBot uses
< 1252954077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: worked on second try, probably temporary glitch
< 1252954079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is in the _C_ standard headers
< 1252954092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I meant EgoBot's
< 1252954108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I just graduated today; and had to harass people over IRC to find out that fact. (Typically they send the email announcements out the same day, but for some reason today they didn't bother. Well, maybe I'll get the email tomorrow.)
< 1252954113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I liked sqrt(-garfield) too
< 1252954119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well done
< 1252954127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have you got your post-graduation application off in time?
< 1252954131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gratz etc.
< 1252954134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i found the lower left panel hard to read :D
< 1252954148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately there was the script
< 1252954148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes
< 1252954159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and the link to the original
< 1252954163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No hurry for that, the deadlines are just this Wednesday and Friday. :p
< 1252954207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They're pretty much written, though, I've just kept them waiting to find out whether I actually am a graduate or not.)
< 1252954313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :