< 1251763877 0 :int-e!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1251764250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You almost certainly have a virus and should reinstall your operating system." < 1251764250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Blaming that guy's link is a lot easier than reinstalling my OS." < 1251764250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So is jacking off in the USB port, but if there is a problem, neither of those things is going to fix it." < 1251764251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— reddit < 1251764929 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1251765409 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1251765745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251765916 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251767102 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251767351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10594014 THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD NEVER SHOUT ON THE INTERNET < 1251767961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sensible people avoid caps entirely, you know < 1251768122 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251768341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'LL POP A CAPITAL LETTER IN YO ASS < 1251768356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1251768404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef struct i{struct i*n;}i;i*h;push(i*i){i->n=h;h=i;}i*pop(){i*t;t=h;h=h->n;return t;} < 1251768409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you referring to the story of the woman who was fired for using capital letters? < 1251768418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: see logs. < 1251768452 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1251768458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, in reply to oerjan < 1251768460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indirectly, yes. < 1251768503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: stop commenting on reddit, you make my brain's look-at-reddit-names-and-pattern-match engine run < 1251768508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's computationally intensive < 1251768512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and takes ages to quit < 1251768552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like reddit's javascript < 1251768594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that would be IE's fault. < 1251768598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: stop using IE < 1251768604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1251768644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1251768645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ THIS IS YOUR FAULT :- < 1251768645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1251768649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've mostly given up expanding loading comment subthreads with more than a handful of comments. although that is not _necessarily_ a bad thing. < 1251768667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-expanding < 1251768726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs oerjan repeatedly with the Ancient Staff of http://www.google.com/chrome < 1251768736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM STABBING YOU < 1251768741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1251768755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my splanch < 1251768790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR SPLANCH WILL HURT UNTIL YOU STOP EVERY PERSON WHO HAS EVER MADE ANYTHING FOR THE WEB HURTING < 1251768798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO ANYONE WHO HAS EVER READ ABOUT IE'S RENDERING MODEL < 1251768818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splanch IS AN ODD THING TO HURT < 1251768836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it's actually an iwc reference < 1251768855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS THINKING THAT "SPLANCH" WAS A VEGETABLE IN NORWEIGAN OR SOMETHING < 1251768861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NORWEGIAN < 1251768869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW DO YOU WANT TO STOP HURTING OR NOT < 1251768871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. norwegian uses very little c's. < 1251768877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*YOUR SPLANCH TO STOP HURTING < 1251768891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as h's at the end of words < 1251768930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spinach is spinat, for example < 1251768966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP TALKING YOU CANNOT TALK COHERENTLY BECAUSE I AM STABBING YOU < 1251768987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i will not be of the at in the future < 1251769001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coherentlywise < 1251769022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT I AM STABBING YOU WITH? IT IS THE ANCIENT STAFF OF http://www.google.com/chrome < 1251769052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i summon GregorR to help me, as he is against all things chrome < 1251769074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://firefox.com/ < 1251769082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOBODY IS AGAINST CUTE RED PANDAS < 1251769084 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH MY SKIN < 1251769099 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/chromates.jpg LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO ME < 1251769109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: sorry, rub some firefox/red panda all over you < 1251769114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll help < 1251769120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why did I click that having seen it before? < 1251769141 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1251769145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't click, remembering having been wise enough not to click it before < 1251769158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT CLICKING http://firefox.com/ IS NEVER A BAD IDEA! < 1251769174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMM < 1251769192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU USE IE, SOME OF GREGOR'S JAVASCRIPT FUNTIMES LIKE THE CPU EMULATORS MIGHT NOT WORK!!! < 1251769197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SURELY THAT WOULD CONVINCE ANYWONE < 1251769198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1251769199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYONE, ALSO < 1251769206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shall have to hunt down and kill ehird in a painful way for his horrible strong opinions, now < 1251769223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kindly suggest that you try alternate browsers such as Google Chrome or Firefox! < 1251769239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Konqueror or Epiphany? < 1251769258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or zzo's browser, Conqueror (I think) < 1251769264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: konqueror is shit < 1251769273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonkeror? < 1251769274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not really available for windows < 1251769279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epiphany is only available for Gnome < 1251769279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes < 1251769283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uses WebKit anyway < 1251769297 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'd still consider those alternate browsers < 1251769298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vonkeror is zzo's awful, awful modification of Conkeror, which is based on firefox but uses keyboard shortcuts < 1251769300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of buttons < 1251769305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you fail at reading. < 1251769376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my task, clearly, is to keep using awful solutions so as to help with ehird's anger therapy < 1251769379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "such as" does not imply that the options you provided are the only options < 1251769407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes; in addition, "alternate browsers" does not necessarily mean all alternate browsers. < 1251771666 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1251771923 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-099-248.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1251771952 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251772001 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1251772681 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251773196 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251773601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Researchers developing OLEDs as cheap as newspapers?" < 1251773603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; < 1251773605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My heart warms. < 1251774212 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251774662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello oklofok. < 1251774667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you heard about JESUS? < 1251774694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean madonna's boyfriend? < 1251774708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is EVERYONE's boyfriend < 1251774711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because he LOVES EVERYONE < 1251774722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm won't madonna be pissed about that < 1251774750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he's very polyamorous. < 1251774916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i must have imagined it, wikipedia's article on madonna does not contain the word "jesus" < 1251774949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because the article for EVERY person would say Jesus! < 1251774977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1251775000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's briefly mentioned on the talk page though < 1251775607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes what the oldest files on his computer are likely to be < 1251775678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2009/jan/03/meme/ < 1251775682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's a script for that" < 1251775752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you < 1251775763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ei scriptum est < 1251775795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ei app that < 1251775797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1251775798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ei app est < 1251775803 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251775803 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251775803 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251775803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can manually exclude OS files < 1251775806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple should do all their ads in latin < 1251775808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd be so much more fun < 1251775819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would the OS files likely be when the system was reformatted and set up again? < 1251775827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Maybe. < 1251775828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just try it. < 1251775833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop asking questions. :P < 1251775848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try it tomorrow. The computer in question is currently off < 1251775903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know what "I'm a Mac. And I'm a PC." is in Latin? :P < 1251775909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better would be if I found my disc that had favorites from before "chat" Crash < 1251775937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("chat" Crash == when I lost all information from my computer because I installed some chat server software, and my dad got paranoid and forced me to reformat) < 1251775964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you not have your own computer or sth < 1251775964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac sum, et PC ? < 1251775972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's two separate lines < 1251775973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this was from when I was much younger < 1251775974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different people < 1251775976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ah < 1251775980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it happened in 2002-2003 < 1251776034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps earlier. I do believe there was definately a crash in 2002-2003. I learned of the FRC before the Chat Crash, and I was interested in the FRC in 2003 < 1251776049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes there is some special conjunction that should be used instead of "et" < 1251776053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1251776062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would "Mac sum." "Et PC." preserve the spirit of the "and" from the original, though? < 1251776073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were no Crashes after August 2003. Knowing the oldest file would push the boundary earlier. < 1251776085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1251776089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ary// < 1251776098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i don't really have a feel for latin _style_ < 1251776104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You suck :P < 1251776154 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mac sum et pc < 1251776162 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251776162 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251776162 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251776164 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be "i am a pc and a mac" surely < 1251776183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pthing: :D < 1251776191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorbeo :( < 1251776253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have two disconnected HDs sitting around. I wonder what's on them. < 1251776341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. seem to have misplaced one of them < 1251776373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sorbeo? :( < 1251776398 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found it < 1251776432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sorbeo#Latin < 1251776455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh exploitable! < 1251776478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1251776490 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least one of these bookmarks dates to around 2003 < 1251776490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, the obvious? < 1251776546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, when did I first enter #esoteric ? < 1251776575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the olden days, when the world was new < 1251776629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I have a bookmark labelled "NetHack 3.4.1" < 1251776637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it must date from before 3.4.2 was released < 1251776664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..31 Aug 2003 < 1251776698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Aren't you quite recent here < 1251776707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think so < 1251776711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know when < 1251776713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, like, after 2006 < 1251776721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess sometime after 2005 < 1251776721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I was here when you first came < 1251776777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda wish I was a little less stupid around 2002-2003, because cool stuff seems to have happened then. < 1251776783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just my weird sense of nostalgia talking, though. < 1251776909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox release dates don't help pinpoint an earlier bound < 1251777373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe that this site is still paying for hosting/domain name/etc < 1251777376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You need IE 4.0 or higher to play it." < 1251777380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.1000ad.net/thegame/ < 1251777385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Copyright Ader Software 2000-2002 < 1251777652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.1000ad.net/ is still sort of updated, so. < 1251777658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(last updated 2007, although updates are very sparse) < 1251777672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Domains cost like $10/yr, pair with autorenew and say, using it for email... < 1251780060 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1251780500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit what is this /r/DoesAnybodyElse thing and how do they manage to spy on me < 1251780508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1251780513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spy on you how < 1251780525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:? < 1251780528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oerjan: ? < 1251780533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just came up on the default list today < 1251780548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's automatic. < 1251780550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that was a joke < 1251780553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guessed < 1251780555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checkin < 1251780559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*checkin', even < 1251780564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :important to be precise about these things < 1251780585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do at least 3 of the top 10 < 1251780790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/DoesAnybodyElse/comments/9g0zj/dae_sometimes_stare_into_their_own_eyes_in_the/ ;; agh I do this < 1251780797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it literally looks like a demon is coming out < 1251780806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some horrible black thing will appear next to me < 1251780902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DAE have a life that is better than prison or internment camps but you still wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy?" < 1251780903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sob sob cut cut. < 1251781025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, and yes... < 1251781046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wut? < 1251781063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a note not to stare into the mirror < 1251781084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which were those no/yeses to < 1251781088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, try it! < 1251781089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1251781124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've only listed two... < 1251781139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but which do they correspond to, i mean i don't see you as the "woe is me" type :P < 1251781172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a very fluctuating mood < 1251781229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i find it completely impossible to accept that suffering exists in the universe _at all_ < 1251781236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you appear to be alive and browse reddit and IRC about, uhh, random stuff < 1251781245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a pretty cushy life, relatively :P < 1251781259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, impossible to accept = tolerate or... believe < 1251781266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tolerate < 1251781267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because err it's pretty easy to come up with a counterexample :P < 1251781277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what if we killed all the unhappy people? < 1251781279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1251781310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blows a gasket < 1251781319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: THIS CHANNEL IS PG-13 < 1251781345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define gasket < 1251781346 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* seal consisting of a ring for packing pistons or sealing a pipe joint \ [23]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * In sailing, gaskets are lengths of rope or fabric used to hold a stowed sail in place. In modern use, the term is usually restricted to square-rigged ships, the equivalent items on yachts being < 1251781380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define blow a gasket < 1251781381 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* To become very angry or upset \ [13]en.wiktionary.org/wiki/blow_a_gasket \ < 1251781385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we have it, a gasket is a seal < 1251781393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greenpeace will be very upset < 1251781396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone probably shut a VR online game Sgeo played in 2003 < 1251781399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :down < 1251781408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1251781472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that failed. Good night, all < 1251781477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wut? < 1251781497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was hoping that the person saying that The Guild S3 would be released midnight PDT was wrong < 1251781498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E wasn't < 1251781506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noooooooooooooooooo? < 1251781553 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1251781704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1251782360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1251782669 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251783614 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251783909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you're redundant < 1251784070 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... couldn't disagree more < 1251784079 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNIVERSITY STARTS < 1251784083 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN 13 MINUTES :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1251784085 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1251784087 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1251784089 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::dDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1251784091 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::dDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1251784093 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::dDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1251784095 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1251784099 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a good thing. < 1251784100 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1251784115 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1251784124 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you want to bask in the awesomeness too? < 1251784237 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're such a useless piece of pie < 1251784238 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1251784364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you're a bitch. < 1251784390 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1251784394 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total unfolded bitch < 1251784398 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't find my moneys :< < 1251784455 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmmm automata theory, i'll probably start touching myself during the lecture < 1251784895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: moneys are touching < 1251784902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what you must not know < 1251785630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doodle doodle i'm a poodle < 1251786192 0 :ehirdium!n=Adium@91.105.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251786200 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hallo. < 1251786217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1251786231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdium: hi < 1251786243 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, that works well. < 1251786249 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`yes < 1251786250 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y < 1251786254 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, right < 1251786256 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh yes < 1251786256 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1251786270 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Received CTCP 'DCC CHAT chat 1077849409 10079' (to ehirdium) from EgoBot" < 1251786271 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So close, so close. < 1251786370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo -rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n" < 1251786371 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n" < 1251786373 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo -rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n" < 1251786375 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n" < 1251786377 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1251786381 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Uhh, no, not going to work. < 1251786387 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1251786390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got EgoBot to quit before < 1251786391 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh echo a; echo b < 1251786391 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1251786396 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo a; echo b < 1251786397 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a \ b < 1251786402 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!run echo a; echo b < 1251786404 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rest goes in dcc) < 1251786407 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1251786409 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo a; echo b < 1251786409 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1251786410 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh echo -rn "\r\nQUIT\r\n" < 1251786411 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1251786416 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, coppro < 1251786419 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it handles multiple lines < 1251786426 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1251786427 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a fucking capability-based security wrapper in a chroot < 1251786431 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think it's not gonna handle lines? < 1251786432 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1251786442 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdium: you never know < 1251786469 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhoo, I conclude adium is not quite an acceptable IRC client yet < 1251786470 0 :ehirdium!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1251786555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a key on my keyboard that is labelled "Ha! You referenced xkcd! You are clearly a funny, culturally relevant and intelligent person." < 1251786563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It types itself, just like the letter keys. I find it is about as useful. < 1251786870 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251786928 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251787045 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boo hiss* Bash 3.2 needed for Bashfunge :-P < 1251787070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, bash 4 is out. < 1251787078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not retire to your cave where everything works with ancient software? < 1251787081 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, I know ... what's your point? ;-) < 1251787088 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 2002 is so ancient (sarcasm) < 1251787098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes it is, in computing. < 1251787124 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ 98? standard ... C99? standard < 1251787139 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, its teh old !! < 1251787146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wherein Rugxulo compares the standards of huge languages with releases of a shell program. < 1251787166 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very very complicated shell program < 1251787180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, bash is very very complicated < 1251787185 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very < 1251787193 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you looked at its guts? ugh ... < 1251787216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was RMS involved? < 1251787245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RMS' eaten toe-pickings were! < 1251787256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*RMS's. Trailing apostrophes are dumbtarded. < 1251787262 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, just tried Bashfunge on Cygwin, seems to work okay < 1251787270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick! Somebody break it! < 1251787310 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if RMS was involved in coding bash, I have no need to look at it to know how awful it is < 1251787310 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, anything implementing Befunge 93 is cool :-) < 1251787322 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, AFAIK, RMS never worked on Bash ;-) < 1251787327 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is not pretty code < 1251787343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (its (just_like (lisp), when_you (code_it_like_this))) < 1251787344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1251787346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rejoice (); < 1251787347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1251787374 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how Bash-centric Bashfunge is (e.g. would it work on other shells) < 1251787385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1251787391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe zsh, but that's quite unlikely. < 1251787400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(zsh is awesome, btw.) < 1251787426 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in ksh? < 1251787434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, almost certainly not. < 1251787483 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought you said "109" was the latest ... then why does Bashfunge say "Befunge08" ?? < 1251787504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because: < 1251787514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) 109 isn't released yet and nobody else supports it, and < 1251787520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) bashfunge is old. 08 is the old name of 108 and 109. < 1251787548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bashfunge is also too slow to do anything in, it takes something like half an hour to run Mycology. < 1251787558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run fungot on it, that'll be a laugh. < 1251787559 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i shall help also. we must now carry out his sentence. hold your horses! i want to dance! ladeedadeeda! got some spending so much of his time doing research on lavos. but you have it...determination, i mean... < 1251787566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can dance, fungot. < 1251787567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can dance. < 1251787574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1251787574 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1251787576 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too slow? even on Core i7? (older is obsolete, upgrade now!!!) < 1251787610 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody writing in Bash should expect a small performance decrease ;-) < 1251787614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly, a shiny new CPU with like 20% performance improvements does not alleviate the crippling slowness of bash and bashfunge. < 1251787614 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still cool, though < 1251787629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: also, if you do have a core i7, enjoy your non-ECC supporting platform. < 1251787651 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECC es fur wamps, I dun't neid et < 1251787664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION flips some bits in Rugxulo's memory < 1251787834 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-19.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251787930 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251788360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1251788540 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, Language-Befunge seems to hate Cygwin (or my install, at least) :-P < 1251788691 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, know of any Brainf*** interpreters in Befunge? < 1251788728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bashfuck, for one. < 1251788730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's rather trivial. < 1251788733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can say fuck. < 1251788751 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for unlawful carnal knowledge ... hooray for me ;-) < 1251788771 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sings, "Home grown, down home ..." < 1251788865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at his Miscellaneous Pile of Overly-Specific Certificates, finds no Certificate of Liking Terrible Music, leaves disappointed < 1251788920 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found a Befunge98 one, wanted a 93 one :-/ < 1251788941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you said in Befunge. < 1251788948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Befunge93 is not TC. < 1251788970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cannot even do the 30,000 baseline cells that a lot of programs need and the original interpreter used. < 1251788979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1251788997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one good enough for "Hello world" and similarly simple stuff should be doable < 1251789009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do it < 1251789219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hi < 1251789269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was this the person you lied about cfunge a few days ago? < 1251789273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge to* < 1251789286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, for some definition of "lie" equal to "things I disagree with because I wrote it". < 1251789294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, sure, evil commie lies, AnMaster. < 1251789331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah, but you are actually wrong. cfunge is currently the fastest one. And several people in here use it. fizzie for example for fungot < 1251789332 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cyrus! are you leaving! it's cyrus! run away for now! < 1251789338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that irc bot :P < 1251789342 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, one chat and ehird already hates me ;-) < 1251789343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, wrong about what? < 1251789351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever deny that cfunge is the fastest interpreter? < 1251789351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ah :) < 1251789356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever deny that several people in here hate it? < 1251789363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rugxulo: Did I ever say that I hate you?) < 1251789366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, s/hate/love/ < 1251789380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, s/hate/use/ < 1251789380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the line "several people in here" < 1251789386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1251789392 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251789409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I never claimed any of those things false, so uhh, I don't see what the hell you're trying to say other than "stop saying cfunge is bad, meanie". < 1251789421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway, about cygwin: I don't have windows handy to test with. But cygwin is your best bet for cfunge if you need to use it on windows < 1251789446 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said (and I'm almost quoting verbatim), "Eww, you use old software, Emacs, and Windows ... can I stab you?" < 1251789463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that is not "almost verbatim" < 1251789466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yep, I was totally serious about stabbing you < 1251789469 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm sure you meant that in a loving way ;-) < 1251789477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to actually be wherever you are and stab you so that you bleed. < 1251789478 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lovey-dovey kind of stab, y'know < 1251789480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And die. That is what I think < 1251789484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I remember that basic things like getting environment variables didn't just work as expected under windows :/ < 1251789493 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin? < 1251789501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well that is worth a try as I said < 1251789549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly doubt cfunge will work on cygwin. < 1251789574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, if it lacks mmap() you could rewrite the file loading part to use getc() or something. I use mmap() because it is faster (I profiled) and easier as well < 1251789636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the build system would need a prod to not error out when mmap() is missing as well, but that would be as trivial as commenting out a line or two in CMakeLists.txt < 1251789675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, but I guess cygwin *does* have mmap() right? < 1251789716 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1251789729 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, found another "Brainf*** in Befunge" < 1251789757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, why are you stuck on windows though? Hardware issues? < 1251789831 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta ... none of the *nixes I tried really worked too well (not that Windows is perfect, though) < 1251789832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he likes it < 1251789840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least that's what he said yesterday < 1251789841 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I like DOS, I tolerate Windows < 1251789847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1251789848 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I said :-) < 1251789852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/shrug < 1251789857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1251789859 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big difference :-P < 1251789887 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hmmm, that Brainf***-in-Befunge may need "arbitrary bignums in the stack") < 1251789900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, so you want no memory protection, a pain to use memory above 640K, ...? < 1251789926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what Brainf*** requires < 1251789932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know that Brainfuck normally uses 8-bit cells < 1251789934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an unbounded tape < 1251789951 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, DPMI -> DJGPP = works! < 1251789963 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251789964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93: 8 bit playfield, 32 bit stack cells iirc < 1251789966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only Funge-98 has provisions for bignum cells, and even then only awkwardly. < 1251789968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it the reverse? < 1251789978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 requires same size < 1251789990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes there is one bignum one at least < 1251790001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just mentioned that because you wrote it. < 1251790002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1251790007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try my efunge, needs erlang installed. Should probably work under windows. But I never tried it < 1251790039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aand predictable as clockwork < 1251790041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, DPMI? < 1251790064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1251790073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that was a question: "what is that"? < 1251790084 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is DPMI? < 1251790084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/"?/?"/ < 1251790085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the protected-mode-in-DOS thing. < 1251790090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1251790110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it something you load with that config.sys thingy? < 1251790114 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, standard stuff, works in OS/2 2+, Win 3+, DOS w/ extender, etc. < 1251790126 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CWSDPMI ring a bell? < 1251790139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, nop < 1251790142 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Quake 1 used it) < 1251790155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or DOS/4GW, which I think is what Watcom's compilers used. < 1251790155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used mac before I changed to xp for a few years, then to linux < 1251790167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have like no contact ever with dos world ;P < 1251790194 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfenstein 3D = 16-bit Borland C < 1251790201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doom 1 & 2 = 32-bit Watcom C < 1251790207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quake 1 = 32-bit DJGPP C < 1251790208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1251790245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, not portable between compilers even? ;P < 1251790245 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever heard of Ardi's Executor (Mac emulator)? < 1251790253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, nop < 1251790256 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPMI isn't related to compilers, it's an API < 1251790292 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/doc/dpmi/ < 1251790326 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://clio.rice.edu/ < 1251790372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would have been more interesting if I had any nostalgia about DOS ;P < 1251790382 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, typically most (non-DJGPP) apps were never written for DPMI "only", they expected the unofficial, undocumented 32-bit int 21h extensions < 1251790390 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(partially supported by some Watcom extenders) < 1251790403 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I know, if you never were familiar with DOS, it wouldn't matter < 1251790411 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trust me, it works, Quake 1 sold fine ;-) < 1251790429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ok. Tell me when you have a 64-bit extender for it ;P < 1251790440 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1251790441 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU works on x86-64, that's as close as you can get < 1251790444 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for now) < 1251790451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1251790460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I meant 64-bit DPMI < 1251790464 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs *almost* native speed (due to no V86 mode has to emulate a very small portion) < 1251790468 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know ... < 1251790477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't say that whole skedaddle with a real-mode operating system and protected-mode applications was exactly *elegant*, no matter how well it might've worked. < 1251790486 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP is extremely elegant < 1251790492 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251790498 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worse than using GCC on Linux < 1251790504 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very stable < 1251790507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you mean fork() { errno = ENOTIMPLEMENTED; return; } < 1251790508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1251790512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1251790516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251790524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which will break at least parts of cfunge btw) < 1251790527 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork is not implemented because most DOSes (and compatibles) don't support it < 1251790530 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251790537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, exactly < 1251790541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if my IRC client didn't crash < 1251790547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I was going to say < 1251790547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mine doesn < 1251790550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't* < 1251790550 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMX/RSX (whole other extender + DPMI) emulates fork, though, but DJGPP is miles better in most other ways < 1251790561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: DJGPP isn't elegant at all... < 1251790565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Thank you, I care deeply < 1251790569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about your IRC client < 1251790581 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1251790588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I use two ones: xchat and ERC < 1251790598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither crash < 1251790600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm on ERC < 1251790601 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Novell (DR-)DOS 7 supports multitasking, but nobody ever bothered writing anything for it < 1251790606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster! Tell me more about all your IRC clients! < 1251790610 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is also on ERC < 1251790613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1251790618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so interested in what IRC client you use and how you use it. Tell me a story about your IRC client! < 1251790630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I'd like you to do that every time I mention my IRC client. Oh wait, you do... < 1251790636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you haven't slept tonight right? < 1251790638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go do so < 1251790681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What on earth has my absolute boredom with you continually mentioning your and how awesome it is whenever mine does something displeasing got to do with that? < 1251790689 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I don't expect it to matter, but DJGPP does have latest ports of VIM, Emacs, GCC (though not Bash) < 1251790689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's irritating. Stop it. < 1251790699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, heh.... < 1251790711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in your dreams < 1251790715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Once upon a time, in an IRC client far, far away..." < 1251790730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and you get so very anti-social when you didn't sleep < 1251790741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I like about my IRC client: It has a feature that lets people stop talk to me without having to have it solely in dreams. < 1251790754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, you just like coming up with excuses whenever I dislike you. < 1251790759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, my clients have /ignore too < 1251790765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when you implied that me using Linux instead of OS X made me nicer... < 1251790768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would say the reverse < 1251790776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yes it did < 1251790788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the effect wore off if you are using linux now < 1251790796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but back then it did < 1251790805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ladies 'n gents, AnMaster thinks what OS I am currently using to talk on IRC is directly related to whether I'm kind or not. < 1251790811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please welcome this master of self-delusion. < 1251790822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1251790849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get quite.... self-delusional... yourself when you didn't sleep < 1251790873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, *ignores ehird* < 1251790886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you just directly stated that and now you're denying it? < 1251790890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1251790941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps he's just using "I don't like what you're saying" as a catch-all disproof of everything I've said, regardless of whether he said it first or not... The mind boggles. < 1251791064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind boggles or boggles the mind? ^_^ < 1251791080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you can write a Boggle clone in Befunge ... heh j/k < 1251791113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, < 1251791113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1251791114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1251791116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1251791125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard failure < 1251791130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1251791137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I tried to write was "Boggle"? < 1251791147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow my space key locked up < 1251791155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other /ignores AnMaster has executed recently: /ignore Google < 1251791277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, so you use Linux and/or OS X? < 1251791288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD < 1251791297 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Linux? < 1251791320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, Gentoo, Arch and currently also Ubuntu on laptop (because there I need things to just work) < 1251791325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, have you heard of shasm/osimplay? ;-) < 1251791337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shasm/osimplay <-- no clue what that is < 1251791357 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's a no :-) < 1251791365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Forth-ish x86 assembler written in Bash) < 1251791365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, tell me what it is < 1251791368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1251791375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, there was some bashforth I remember < 1251791407 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251791758 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, have you programmed in Forth before? < 1251791787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no, I haven't really had time to learn it, and currently I don't expect to have it soon either, what with just having started at university < 1251791884 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17, 18? < 1251791914 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might explain the lack of DOS nostalgia ;-) < 1251791952 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION regales everyone about ye olden days of GCC 2.7.2.1 < 1251791954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, 19 < 1251791965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and I used redhat 5.0 ;P < 1251791970 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like I'm super old either, only just turned 30 ;-) < 1251791999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1251792000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1251792000 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, in Befunge, 3:9*+ < 1251792004 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1251792020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ (* 9 3) 3) < 1251792061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some would just say 65*. < 1251792076 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touche < 1251792080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what would Deewiant's constant-builder say? < 1251792081 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1251792086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 30 < 1251792086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30: 2 3 5 < 1251792117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A funge-98 programmer would probably say 3a*. < 1251792124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes < 1251792137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, from the viewpoint of the channel, 30 sounds quite ancient. < 1251792149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about oerjan? < 1251792151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that, like, a bit before death? < 1251792174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't oerjan old? < 1251792174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea about oerjan's age, I assume it is considerable. < 1251792196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is like 38. < 1251792206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seen the stars born and so on. < 1251792212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nescience is 39 iirc, or at least I asked if he was like 40 and he said something along the lines of almost < 1251792224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251792225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are you suggesting he _is_ a great old one? < 1251792233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aren't you like 30-something, I remember someoneorother saying that, though they could just be bullshitting me < 1251792249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[08:03] ehird: nescience is 39 iirc, or at least I asked if he was like 40 and he said something along the lines of almost < 1251792250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ i meant mycroftiv, not nescience < 1251792252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I guess it depends on your rounding mode, 26 nowadays. < 1251792256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell happened to wxmaxima after updating it.... < 1251792272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're like a bit before a bit before death! < 1251792276 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never. update. anything. < 1251792294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, interface completely changed < 1251792307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interface being redefined? < 1251792308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also of course I keep things up-to-date. It is painless usually on linux < 1251792309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*redesigned < 1251792310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unheard of. < 1251792311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike on windows < 1251792317 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite painless < 1251792338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: what he's trying to say is "You use Windows and I disapprove of this" < 1251792341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well on gentoo it is just tedious. But often more painless than binary distros. :P < 1251792349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facts don't really enter into it < 1251792431 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all the same hardware, so in theory any OS can do anything < 1251792433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the line editing history feature is gone... meh < 1251792436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in theory) < 1251792469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, since gentoo compiles packages from source when you install them, ABI breakages tends to hurt less... just recompile affected packages. < 1251792472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is easy < 1251792488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of being rather complex like on many other distros < 1251792493 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, I wouldn't call it easy ... even if automatic, too many things can go wrong < 1251792504 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it works well, 100% of the credit goes to the script maintainers < 1251792518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, in my experience those things doesn't go wrong. And yes credit goes to the portage maintainers < 1251792525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ebuild maintainers < 1251792542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(portage = the package manager, ebuilds = the build scripts) < 1251792593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I think I can get used to this new interface. In fact parts of it is cool. Just I miss shell style line editing and history < 1251793280 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-nmcmvimsiymsomif JOIN :#esoteric < 1251793733 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1251794302 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251794544 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251794827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[symbolics.com, the first domain name ever registered, has been bought by a "real estate and domain investment company."]] < 1251794846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbolics.com Was The FIRST Registered Domain Name! < 1251794846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—http://www.symbolics.com/, "Symbolics: It all started here". < 1251794850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sad, sad event. < 1251794864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't have done that, David K Schmidt. < 1251794867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was bad. < 1251794913 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251794934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are a bad person. < 1251794959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your actions are bad and you should feel bad. < 1251795003 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so tell us how you really feel, don't be shy ;-) < 1251795011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly it isn't even the oldest domain, just the oldest .com and the oldest still-registered domain. < 1251795015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: He did a bad thing! :P < 1251795036 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(singing) "David did a bad bad thing" (ba dum da dum de dum de dum) < 1251795075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cgi.ebay.com/SYMBOLICS-DOMAIN-NAME-TEL-SEXY-HOT-MATURE-RARE-LOGO_W0QQitemZ220437152045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item335314012d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_11186wt_1167 < 1251795075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow! For only $21,000,000 I can buy symbolics.tel with free shipping! It even has a picture of Bama! < 1251795078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Obama < 1251795111 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fairness, it IS sexy, hot, and mature ;-) < 1251795121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis muchly so! < 1251795157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, when the seller's name, 10qvrymuch, is pronounced quickly, it sounds like the pronunciation of "thank you very much"! WILL THE WONDERS EVER CEASE????????? < 1251795665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251796598 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251796791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i have determined that you do not exist. < 1251797018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toli Toli Toli Toli Toli < 1251797664 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1251798004 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251798110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That reminds me of a quote: https://pastee.org/gf9w2 < 1251798137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I really need to click that link to be reminded of a famous h2g2 quote? :P < 1251798226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like the quotes have unique identifiers I could use to refer to them. < 1251798272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Finnish translation has the vanishing bit formatted as (retranslating back to English literally) "vanishes like an irrational fart in the Sahara of logic". < 1251798334 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251799790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251800331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought: domain names are probably economically unscarce < 1251800756 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251800934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in case anyone thought rms has ever been sane, here's what he said when Symbolics corporation told him to stop reading their code and rewriting features from it: < 1251800936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["I definitely did have fantasies of killing myself and destroying their building in the process," Stallman says. "I thought my life was over."]] < 1251801029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["I started crying right there in the equipment room," he says. "Seeing the machine there, dead, with nobody left to fix it, it all drove home how completely my community had been destroyed."]] < 1251801039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's cringeworthy even to read this. < 1251801049 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251801143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251801165 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251801299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does rms nowadays use passwords, I wonder. < 1251801385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, almost certainly. < 1251801396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not on his laptop. < 1251801403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably on his server accounts. < 1251801447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a fool, incidentally. < 1251801631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1251801761 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251801972 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251802523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? < 1251802591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird was quoting few bits, probably from http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch07.html I guess. < 1251802611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another copy of that, but yeah. < 1251802634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably AnMaster will now chastise you for not prefixing that with "ehird:"; he's done that before when ignoring me, at least. < 1251803234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251803744 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251804976 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1251806937 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-44-163.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251807813 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251809278 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251809830 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251810174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicorn flu huh? < 1251810256 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251810285 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1251810386 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1251810559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so why are you still pretending like you exist < 1251811239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be buskers with laptops < 1251811245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making electronic music with a laptop case open for money < 1251811254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps with overdriven electric guitars < 1251811267 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-77-180.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1251811772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: For 30 it says 65* < 1251811808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whut < 1251811825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But what would Jesus say!? < 1251811844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt the Bible addresses Befunge constants at all. :/ < 1251811891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such a useless book < 1251811923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What does it say for "befunge" (base 26)? < 1251811942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, tell me what "befunge" is in base 26 < 1251811968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only takes base 10 as input :-P < 1251811979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's so much work! < 1251812169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :359086628? < 1251812252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's that; 4548*+1348**+56898::**+**+*** or 4548*+1c8*+d555558*****+*** or 4"%a5N"5'@**+*** < 1251812879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I prefer the or :P < 1251812926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, another Luddite dualist idiot peddles his unscientific doomsday view on AI in a popsci publication. What else is new. < 1251812967 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had some kind of linear encoding which knew about commutativity that last one could be a character shorter < 1251813093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to produce strong AI: Keep having babies until evolution gets bored and spits out an intelligent, self-improving computer < 1251813103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sure this will work. < 1251813144 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That presupposes two rather unlikely states < 1251813171 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firstly that evolution can get bored, and secondly that it'll do that if it does < 1251813192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is there a reason for 4"%a5N"5'@**+*** over 4"%a5N@"5**+*** then? < 1251813209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If you adopt a sufficiently warped view of what genes can do it has a probability of 1, assuming you're immortal < 1251813216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Like said, I don't have a linear encoding which knows about commutativity. < 1251813235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes straight from binary-treeish AST to string < 1251813247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Without a sufficiently warped view, you'll just get a baby that immediately flies over to a computer and types out a strong, self-improving AI within hours. < 1251813261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fool-proof. < 1251813269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Also assuming a universe that exists forever < 1251813282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That is kind of implied by a thing being immortal. < 1251813283 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess true "immortality" assumes that. < 1251813286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snap. < 1251813307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, arguably "immortal" could also mean being able to live as long as the surrounding universe. < 1251813317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1251813366 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So it just generates a Mul (Push 5) (Push 64) and the reason it becomes 5'@ instead of '@5 is that the left branch is output first. < 1251813382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All finns: do you guys have obnoxious companies trying to "cut down" on piracy by taking all means necessary against your internet connection? < 1251813385 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying all possible branching orders may or may not be feasible, I'm not sure how fast that grows. < 1251813403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: exponentially, no? < 1251813418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be my guess < 1251813473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, apparently this exchange has ADSL2+ or something? Well, one company at least thinks it does. < 1251813480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others don't though. < 1251813501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the max here is 19.8 megabit, which beats the 6 mbit I'm getting < 1251813528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for companies like that; not to my knowledge; there's mainly the local CISAC member, Teosto < 1251813537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;/:/ < 1251813557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All finns: Any nasty industry-standard internet censorship or deep packet inspection? < 1251813673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit of blacklist censorship done by most ISPs; intended to be vs. child porn but there's also some other stuff (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsiporno.info) < 1251813703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like what we have here; "child porn" which includes that old album cover, oh and "race hate material" and the like < 1251813710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next week, "record industry hate material" < 1251813720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1047 censored websites" "nine were unrelated to pornography, 28 had content hard to categorize as legal or illegal, 46 were (legal) child modeling sites and 879 contained only legal pornography" < 1251813741 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and "nine of the sites contained child pornography" < 1251813743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't seem to be many providers using the list < 1251813749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them are small < 1251813750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsiporno.info#Status_of_lapsiporno.info_with_Finnish_Internet_service_providers < 1251813755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Elisa must've been a recent change < 1251813761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Nebula is the fast one fizzie uses iirc < 1251813762 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since lapsiporno.info was blocked last I checked < 1251813767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elisa was very recent. < 1251813781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, they blocked a site about it? < 1251813787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-08-05. < 1251813787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucked up < 1251813789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if Elisa were still blocked then that'd have Elisa + Welho which are over 50% < 1251813801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because the site published links that were on the list. < 1251813802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any deep packet inspection, though? < 1251813807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to my knowledge < 1251813810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, how would I know ;-) < 1251813821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Citation? < 1251813829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All finns: What's a good way to learn Finnish, and how do I learn to like saunas? < 1251813831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1251813839 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried saunas? :-P < 1251813842 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be a way to start < 1251813844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :-P < 1251813858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That question might have been a little bit joking, so to speak. < 1251813888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Citation for the reason? Well, I think that was the official reason, anyway. The site doesn't seem to answer right now. < 1251813896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Citation for the date < 1251813903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of Elisa's unblocking < 1251813958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, that was actually the date for when lapsiporno.info got a note about it. I assume the unblocking came first, don't know the exact date. < 1251813966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, right, Nebula was that one that was great apart from the speed being rather unimpressive < 1251813975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess Ask! is a nice price for 100mbit both ways < 1251813978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can spare Ask!. < 1251813981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see the page has it < 1251814009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "unimpressive" in the sense that it's what you get with ADSL-based technologies; I dislike the rather high price more. < 1251814068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, right, I meant the price/speed ratio. < 1251814076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's a bit unimpressive. < 1251814088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't Welho that 100mbit dumbpeople one? < 1251814113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys seem to have the perfect internet connection, just it's scattered across a bunch of subscriptions :P < 1251814113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, well, not all Welho users are that dumb, I mean... < 1251814126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1251814133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dumbpeople? < 1251814141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't support IPv6 or err custom DNS or something < 1251814144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore dumbpeople < 1251814148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :-P < 1251814152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they, like, advertise TV services < 1251814159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And their site is ugly < 1251814160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a cable TV company, so.. < 1251814160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs IPv6 when you can download at 110 Mbps < 1251814180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But they use the blacklist too :P < 1251814200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unnoticeable < 1251814207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morally unacceptable < 1251814215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't notice the CCTV cameras around here either < 1251814218 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, if it were valid < 1251814224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nebula's selling the "bond two ADSL2+ annex M lines together to get a 48/6M link" service, which is speedy enough, but it's a frigging 150 eur/month. < 1251814227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can understand blocking child porn < 1251814249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe in censorship, especially when it involves looking at my packets < 1251814274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet service is paying them to give you a hole in the wall with bandwidth, any crimes are your responsibility < 1251814279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of impossible without looking at packets :-P < 1251814288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Which makes it unacceptable < 1251814299 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have to look at your packets anyway in order to be able to route them < 1251814306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you'd just look at the evil-bit-set packets. < 1251814308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's way too expensive for those speeds, indeed < 1251814357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elisa.com is a rather bad site, it lists all the broadband products only with a short summary < 1251814359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You poor finns < 1251814389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your bad telecom company websites < 1251814392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to the Finnish site for more info :-P < 1251814392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you sleep at night < 1251814395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.elisa.fi/yksityisille/laajakaista/laajakaista/tekniset_tiedot/ < 1251814414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, there wasn't a link to the Finnish site. < 1251814430 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes there was < 1251814438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I didn't notice it :P < 1251814441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.elisa.com -> bottom of page "Suomeksi" < 1251814448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suomeksi < 1251814451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course" < 1251814464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100mbit/10mbit? < 1251814467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can't expect to find the link if you don't speak Finnish < 1251814468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't be fibr-optic < 1251814470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fibre < 1251814476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that must be some hefty ADSL < 1251814484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it's fibre-optic but they rate limited the upload < 1251814491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're—— < 1251814494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number of computers in use as early < 1251814500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a limit on how many computers you can use with it? < 1251814506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1251814508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1251814514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes with five dynamic IPs. < 1251814528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's rather pointless with IPv4 < 1251814530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Five dynamic IPs" seems to be the de-facto "standard" around here. < 1251814537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1251814542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen more than one dynamic IP < 1251814625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the "super" thing is for.. er, building-owners, to be resold to actual people-living-there; and it goes to 100M/10M only when the house in question has suitable Ethernet cabling. < 1251814647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 24M/1M for phone-cabling-only places. < 1251814734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of MizardX's weird click-to-switch-broadband thing. < 1251814773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's 1 Gbps fibre to the basement in any case. And they're only selling it (in case of existing buildings) to buildings with at least 20 apartments in them. < 1251814867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh! < 1251814897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the Swedish internet situation is better, I seem to hear a lot of good interweb thingies from there. < 1251814905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, also Norway. They have a lot of fibre. < 1251814913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just go to South Korea < 1251814936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welho's 110M/5M is probably the widestly-available fast-enough connection, and that's just because large parts of the capital-city area is in their cable TV network. < 1251815005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to find any sort of comprehensive list for where Elisa's 100M/10M thing is available, just the "put your address here and we'll tell you" thing. < 1251815014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But even fantasy-head-moving because of just internet would be unacceptable without taking the time to fantasy-head-move to somewhere with a decent political system :p < 1251815030 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1251815057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You European social democracies collect political parties like Pokemon. < 1251815061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many are there now, 152? < 1251815295 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host81-129-119-179.range81-129.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251815624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're still speaking of Finland, we only have 15 currently registered political parties. A total sum of everything in Europe would be quite a lot, I guess. < 1251815639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking; 152 = initial pokemon + 1. < 1251815653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't Sweden have like 17 with seats? < 1251815676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know; we have 8 of those. < 1251815694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, in the world where everything is backwards: "SSDs are best for sequential writes and HDDs are best for random writes." < 1251815750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their Parliament is bigger; 349 seats, compared to our 200. You can fit more parties in there. < 1251815755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure their building is also bigger. < 1251815773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. They can fit bigger people because their seats are bigger because their building is bigger. < 1251815777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Riksdagen-fran-vattnet-2004-05-09.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eduskuntatalo_(Finnish_Parliament_building).JPG < 1251815780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This helps because Swedish people are bigger. < 1251815799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I didn't know Finland was located in Ancient Greece! < 1251815809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a little-known fact. < 1251815824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many people do not know that. < 1251815932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile: http://buttersafe.com/comics/2009-09-01-theevilplan.jpg < 1251815950 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1251815951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're using that picture, as it's more imposing; Wikipedia does have one which shows the complete structure -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Parliament_House_of_Finland.jpg -- but in that one it's not so impressive. < 1251815968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maxisat? More like < 1251815971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marxisat? More like < 1251815975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marxis? More like < 1251815978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marx? More like < 1251815983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karl Marx? More like < 1251815984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMUNISTS < 1251815994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do IPTV things, actually. < 1251816000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO COMMUNISM < 1251816015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and sell broadband internet. :p < 1251816029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And communism. < 1251816074 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxisat < 1251816077 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for heavy data flow < 1251816083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your communism < 1251816089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECONOMIC FLOW < 1251816090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of GOODS < 1251816721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmph < 1251816949 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251817095 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251817375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had some Haskell to code :P < 1251817523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plenty of Haskell in the world < 1251817570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phrase "I can has kell" popped into my mind. < 1251817629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That is true < 1251817638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that got to do with wanting to write something that haskell would fit nicely < 1251817655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means there's plenty of stuff to hack on if that's what you want to do < 1251817718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's icky practical software by Other People Who Are Bad Coders. :P < 1251817748 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it the "who are bad coders" comes by default since it's "other people"? < 1251817782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally < 1251817944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That attitude does limit your options somewhat < 1251817977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to suggest improving my fungifier but you can also code a better one from scratch, if you want; it's fairly short < 1251817993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1251817996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just end up bruteforcing i < 1251817997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1251818002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there's an eleganty algo to do it < 1251818006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that too, if it ends up fast enough :-P < 1251818019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas i cannot transcend the laws of physisc < 1251818022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :physics < 1251818053 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can < 1251818171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: sweet, gimme my infinity machine < 1251818188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So you want not only some Haskell, but some Haskell that implements an elegant algorithm? :-P < 1251818204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the task is boring in itself imo < 1251818227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much factoring + subtract and factor < 1251818307 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird : Later < 1251818312 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feeling a bit lazy right no < 1251818324 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newsflash: most tasks are boring especially when summarized in a single sentence :-P < 1251818343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a perfectly passable algo really < 1251818396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234 → (for base 10) 2*(1+(8*7*(1+(2*5)))) < 1251818399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1251818409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25*1+87*1+2* < 1251818413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly not exceedingly good < 1251818439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if 5 words, one being "+", can describe a half-passable algorithm it's probably just a boring hill-climb with slightly better and better heuristics < 1251818491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better than what my current one gets allowing only decimals < 1251818498 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2948328*+**+* < 1251818584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha < 1251818595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Gimme a number yours does well on and I'll give it a crack with my uber-tedious algo < 1251818600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, trivial optimisation of mine: < 1251818609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25*87*+2+2* < 1251818629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, what's "well" :-P < 1251818670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Shortly? < 1251818672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just gimme a number :P < 1251818680 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57849 < 1251818742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3*(1+(2*5))*(1+(2*2*2*3*(1+(2*2*2*3*3)))) < 1251818744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial reduction: < 1251818754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3*(1+(2*5))*(1+(8**3*(1+(8*9)))) < 1251818758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1251818765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57*:*9+ with some Human Ingenuity, which no computar in the world can match. < 1251818768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For 1234, I mean. < 1251818781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :89*1+83*1+25*1+3** < 1251818790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially simplify: < 1251818814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :89*83*25*++3+3** < 1251818818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1251818822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a trailing * there < 1251818833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that failed < 1251818834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1251818881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :89*1+83**1+25*1+*3* < 1251818913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is < 1251818936 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1251818945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :89*83**25**3*3+ < 1251818950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what does yours give? < 1251818951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78+88+*::*9++ < 1251818965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The square-root finding I did manually might even make sense. < 1251818967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: remember that this algo is four words and a symbol :P < 1251818977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying that the problem is kinda trivial < 1251818981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That gives 51843 < 1251818993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, so I reduced wrong at some point < 1251818996 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine gives 392+13898:*+**+** using decimals < 1251818999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired; what to do is obvious < 1251819012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a trivial problem just because it can't be solved < 1251819017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So shorter than my initial one just by a char < 1251819041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda yawnsville, yah? < 1251819100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call it trivial, anyway. I'm sure it gets really quite interesting when the numbers are large enough that loops start to make sense. < 1251819102 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is yours doing something with prime factors? < 1251819110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1251819123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's mine < 1251819130 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does it do when it gets to 1753? < 1251819139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For mine, it subtracts one and refactors < 1251819142 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approximate and add? < 1251819143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then does 1+ < 1251819154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Give me a large number < 1251819159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 8119824918791285132865191 < 1251819166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh you just hate me. < 1251819170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't automated this you know. < 1251819178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Split it in half until it's small enough :-P < 1251819183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it reduces to a whole bunch of 2*2*2*2* with factor(1) < 1251819191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then 23, then 54798378614461 < 1251819196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1251819200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1251819203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just take the easy way out, why don'tcha < 1251819210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: factor unix program < 1251819220 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Mine grabs the one with most factors that it can subtract to < 1251819223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you said 2 is a factor of 8119824918791285132865191 < 1251819228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the hopes that those are easier to reduce < 1251819233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, just not a prime factor :P < 1251819241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1251819241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1251819249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is factor(1) broken? < 1251819252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number is odd so 2 can't be a factor of it < 1251819254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your factor(1) must be pretty strange then. < 1251819255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am barely awake here btw < 1251819260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe overflow < 1251819260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there was like an ignore that ignored ehird when there's math being talked about < 1251819268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when he's tired < 1251819269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine just says: factor: `8119824918791285132865191' is too large < 1251819270 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some factor(1)s don't support bigger than machine-sized ints < 1251819276 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine says: 8119824918791285132865191: 13960227797 581639858379403 < 1251819297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1251819307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*8*6*23*54798378614461 certainly = 8119824918791285132865191 < 1251819314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1251819316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1251819320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it does < 1251819323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8119824918791284674527232 < 1251819326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then goes and diverges on yo ass < 1251819329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you factor(1) < 1251819331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are suck ass < 1251819337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me install gnu factor or something < 1251819611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1251819612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see < 1251819616 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251819733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Close < 1251819744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close? < 1251819757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To fully converting it < 1251819865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1+(2*2*(1+(2*2*(1+(2*2*3*3))))*(1+(2*(1+(2*5*5*5))))*(1+(2*3*3*(1+(2*2*3))*(1+(2*3*3*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*3*(1+(2*2*(1+(2*3*(1+(2*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*3*3*5*7))*(1+(2*3*(1+(2*2*(1+(2*3*3*3*3))))))*(1+(2*7*(1+(2*5))*(1+(2*2*2*3*(1+(2*3*3)))))))) < 1251819868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simplifying, < 1251819944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1+(4*(1+(4*(1+(4*9))))*(1+(2*(1+(2*5*5*5))))*(1+(2*9*(1+(4*3))*(1+(2*9*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*3*(1+(4*(1+(6*(1+(2*(1+(2*5))))))))*(1+(2*9*5*7))*(1+(6*(1+(4*(1+(6*9*3))))))*(1+(2*7*(1+(2*5))*(1+(4*6*(1+(2*9)))))))) < 1251819951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can RPN that yourself :P < 1251819953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does yours output? < 1251819972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68888888888728*+145994+75838:*+**+76599458**+2379**+****+*****+************ < 1251819992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be easier to just write it in say base 9 < 1251819999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be shorter than Deewiant's too < 1251820003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'08'@"@@@"f8+'½8';"@SZ@"*+"¿0@e"**+****+*******, the latin-1, is much nicer < 1251820013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing parens (that'll be how long it is in RPN) gives 125 for mine, 75 for yours < 1251820031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty funny how well a 4 words+symbol algo is doing against your long prog :P < 1251820049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny how the trivial solution is better than either of yours < 1251820067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My long prog generalizes to a bunch of stuff < 1251820068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because it's a trivial problem < 1251820068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking internet < 1251820069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too slow < 1251820073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1251820086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: which trivial solution < 1251820091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True, still < 1251820097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i'm just angry at internet, and tired enough to project. < 1251820097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I can think of a bunch of brute-force improvements to mine < 1251820099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it isn't that long, either < 1251820102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. subtract a variable amount < 1251820104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just 1 < 1251820106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bruteforce < 1251820117 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, bruteforcing is an improvement but also fucking slow :-P < 1251820120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just write it in the normal canonical number notation < 1251820129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that does not execute in befunge < 1251820129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in base 9, if you don't have an A < 1251820132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not really < 1251820144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious when you'll run into diminishing returns < 1251820146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1251820178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't d9*d+9*d+9*... work? < 1251820191 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four chars per digit, might lose to Deewiant, too hard to calculate < 1251820202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19*2+9*2+9*7+9*1+9*3+9*4+9*8+9*7+9*5+9*0+9*8+9*6+9*4+9*5+9*3+9*5+9*5+9*3+9*4+9*1+9*1+9*3+9*6+9*8+9*6+9*3+ < 1251820207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant's wins massively on... other numbers < 1251820208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1251820210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That'd be 100 < 1251820218 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since this is a 25-digit number. < 1251820228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: in base 9? < 1251820230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or base 10 < 1251820232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base 10. < 1251820237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 122713487508645355341136863 in base-9. < 1251820241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do base 9 < 1251820254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In base 9 it'd be 105? < 1251820255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: we have a-f actually. < 1251820258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're just not using them < 1251820260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, as i said, i was just projecting. < 1251820266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking fucking internet < 1251820272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to load like 3 pages < 1251820286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a-f it's a bit shorter: 88688888888f8+d6781489**+1459**+3488f4+1a8:**+****+*****+************ < 1251820292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: are you using that gprs thing < 1251820294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blob thing < 1251820297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: how long would mine be? < 1251820304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, neighbor's net. < 1251820316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: complain to your neighbour :P < 1251820320 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: 2009-09-01 17:50:54 ( Deewiant) In base 9 it'd be 105? < 1251820336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19642DA3B3043453DAA0CB in base-15, with approximately *4 for the "+f*" parts in-between. < 1251820343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Uppercase since that's what bc outputs.) < 1251820351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i meant in 16 < 1251820358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right base 15 < 1251820363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 digits in base-15. < 1251820369 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :85 < 1251820395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, ceiling the end result isn't quite enough is it < 1251820399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, 88 then < 1251820403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :87 < 1251820410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the first one doesn't need a + < 1251820416 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True that < 1251820421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1251820428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still win with 69 < 1251820454 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which you should, if you call it an algorithm) < 1251820471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call lots of simple things algorithms < 1251820478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is just a call to zip < 1251820513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, umm. it was just a figure of your mom < 1251820522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :] < 1251820534 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, it rhymes < 1251820591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom and ] totally rhyme < 1251821240 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84.217.14.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251821543 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1251821706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I want a key on my keyboard that is labelled "Ha! You referenced xkcd! You are clearly a funny, culturally relevant and intelligent person." < 1251821750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm more worried about my impression that xkcd sometimes seems to be referencing reddit lately... < 1251821776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if he is spending too much time there ;D < 1251821844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh they _do_ have some kind of business partnership < 1251821872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in business together selling shitty ties < 1251821899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm shitty ties. something for GregorR? < 1251821938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and speaking of 8119824918791285132865191: < 1251821939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3176727665646579168954283320> \:#v_.@ < 1251821939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^+*9\-1< < 1251821954 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple lines: no-go < 1251821957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hallo. <-- scariest atomic element ever < 1251821992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3176727665646579168954283320>\#+:#* #9 #\ #- #1_ < 1251822016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would be a base loop. < 1251822021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of sorts. < 1251822032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why not... base 10? < 1251822038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin' < 1251822040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You need a $ at the end < 1251822051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 'tis a reference to adium and also scary. < 1251822052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Yes. < 1251822078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did 1+ to the base-9 digits to have 0 more easily usable as a end-of-digits marker. < 1251822107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, err, you have 0 at the top of the stack. < 1251822124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the accumulator. < 1251822128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you can call it that. < 1251822147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1251822150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the accumulator, it's accumulating < 1251822177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accumulonimbus clouds today. < 1251822214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1251822234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acacumollofdimbus on the rimbus its like a rombhus but you dont hve to worry oh no < 1251822248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rhombus < 1251822264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rombhus is a type of house, I think. < 1251822276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :et rombiskt hus < 1251822349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"—and he build a crooked house—" was about gay arriage in rhombusses < 1251822375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhombu bus s yststem < 1251822377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets you from A to B < 1251822380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a rhombus < 1251822417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define arriage < 1251822419 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1251822426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horse and arriage < 1251822432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horseless arriages < 1251822443 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251822465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1251822472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about gay marriage in 4-dimensional shapes < 1251822477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just me rather < 1251822484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... well, I'm not particularly surprised < 1251822486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1251822491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhombuses aren't 4 dimensional < 1251822501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "—and he built a crooked house—" was about a tesseract < 1251822504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I said build, not built < 1251822525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO THEREFORE MAGIC HAPPENS HERE and we come back to comprehension on the rhombus bus services, gets you from A to B in a rhombus < 1251822600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you understand ais523. < 1251822631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly I could if I wanted to < 1251822634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not trying to < 1251822635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1251822649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will never be salvaged from the burning ruins of a dead rhombusbus, gets you from A to B in a rhombus < 1251822821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1251822854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now wonders what the heck Picard-Vessiot theory has to do with the possibility of four-dimensional houses < 1251822867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If I got my base-64 right, this one assumes only ASCII. The "decompression" takes up more space than the "digits" even for 8119824918791285132865191, though: < 1251822869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+\#* #* #8 #8 #\ #- #* #8 #8_$ < 1251822875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eh? < 1251822889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see where you got Picard-Vessiot theory from < 1251822895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's mentioned in wp's article on "And he built a crooked house" < 1251822910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*“—And He Built a Crooked House—” < 1251822911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the link leads to a page on galois theory which doesn't mention the term < 1251822912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's a bit longer than the base-9 one, isn't it? < 1251822927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eh, just read the story < 1251822928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's short < 1251822939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, by one character, if I add the missing $ there too. < 1251822970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The repetition of 88* is inelegant, but \ is so limited. < 1251822982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1251823002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nah, i'm just suspecting technobabble here < 1251823015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall any technobabble < 1251823021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good story anyway < 1251823045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the minimal number is whereafter parsers like that take up less space than plain +*-representations of the number < 1251823090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://web.archive.org/web/20000902022857/http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/heinlein/heinlein1.html < 1251823091 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1251823094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hasn't fully loaded for me yet, but < 1251823126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, just errors out < 1251823142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries a later date < 1251823146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That page works fine < 1251823159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pages 2 and 3 as well < 1251823178 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Reusing the obvious \ both ways make the base-64 one shorter by one char than the base-9: "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+ #* #* #8 #8\ #- #* #8 #8_$ < 1251823192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Flash detection fails here < 1251823196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses w3m < 1251823201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah! < 1251823203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://web.archive.org/web/20080115153446/http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/heinlein/heinlein1.html < 1251823205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loads quickly, etc. < 1251823216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang is that? Befunge? < 1251823226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Loads much slower than the other one :-P < 1251823233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Stop living in opposites world. < 1251823240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus far, not at all < 1251823250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try refreshing < 1251823251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worked for me < 1251823266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, evidently < 1251823266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: erm the other one errored out for me < 1251823280 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now both work for me < 1251823291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoyingly, I need to resize my window small < 1251823293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm even starting to get pictures :-O < 1251823296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise the black text goes on the green background < 1251823306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The old link doesn't have that problem < 1251823315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it also redirects my browser < 1251823336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why we have things like NoScript. < 1251823349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why we have things like not using shitty websites < 1251823373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not always an option < 1251823397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Still a bit shorter: "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+\#* #@' $#\ #- #@' $# _$ < 1251823399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thanks for the resizing tip < 1251823404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yw :P < 1251823415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, #@' $# < 1251823422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3$&*(#Y$(&#*$(& to you too < 1251823445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The $s ate a bit of the savings '@ gave me over 88*. < 1251823482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it take less space to use "" and k$ instead of #? < 1251823506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it seems to be rather nice with just "" both ways, since I don't have to jump over the @ then. < 1251823585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly this would work, haven't tested: "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>:#+ #*"@"$#\\#-"@"$# _$ < 1251823601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$# _$ < 1251823604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Druggiefunge < 1251823699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Doesn't seem to. < 1251823717 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but neither did the previous. < 1251823735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there could be some other error. I don't have a bignum funge, I've just been thinking aloud here. < 1251823736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the one before that. < 1251823750 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do all give the same number (90), though. :-P < 1251823782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tested the base-9 for a smaller number, so the theory is sound. :p < 1251823799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, the : there is before the \. < 1251823799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, base-9 works, but your base-64 doesn't. < 1251823826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try something like "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+ #*"@"$#\:#-"@"$# _$ < 1251823863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8119824918791284998647463 < 1251823940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did the base-64 digits manually, since bc(1) only goes up to obase=16, based on the obase=2 binary output of 8119824918791285132865191, so an error might've crept in. < 1251823979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's one flipped bit in there. < 1251823989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere around the middle of it. < 1251824029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8119824918791285132865191-8119824918791284998647463 = 134217728 = 2^27, so it's that bit. < 1251824082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm sure that with enough ingenuity it's possible to use that same "@" to provide both the '@- and the '@* numbers. Maybe I should try to permute it a bit. < 1251824201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it really be as simple as "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+:#*"@"-#\\# _$ or did I mess something new up, in addition to that one digit? < 1251824245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I obviously mean the less retarded "gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+:#*"@"-#\_$ < 1251824250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get Erlang and efunge and try it yourself, if you like < 1251824268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at work... hey, wait, there's Erlang on this thing. < 1251824282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That latest one seems to be an infinite loop < 1251824293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's missing one space. < 1251824303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gzZTSbG]B]I\wZ"0>\#+:#*"@"-# \_$ < 1251824308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably not the latest erlang v2009-08. < 1251824312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever. < 1251824326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "Erlang (BEAM) emulator version 5.6.3", whatever that means. Probably ancient. < 1251824360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is 5.7.1 and the efunge version I've got here got warnings about doing deprecated things < 1251824385 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that is indeed 8119824918791284998647463 < 1251824410 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251824422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now, that last one has a pretty nifty base-64-depackifier. I ♥ befunge. < 1251824440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know how you said 9-nines would be ridiculous? < 1251824452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1251824453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in what context? < 1251824469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uptime < 1251824523 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251824569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is your base-64 just 64 characters starting at '@'? < 1251824576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AXD301 -- 99.9999999% reliability (9 nines) (31 ms. year!)" < 1251824590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, it's not the more common base-64. < 1251824616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But the printable characters end at 126 < 1251824648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Fortunately your example number didn't have any other digits. :p < 1251824665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1251824683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can trivially change that to "base-63 starting from ASCII '?'" with a s/@/?/. < 1251824684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, that's what I meant < 1251824692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an Erlang switcher system thing < 1251824692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do base-96 if you start from ' ' < 1251824699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth can they commit to 9 nines; it becomes meaningless at that point < 1251825140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I'd lose the nifty "substract and multiply constant both ways" thing. < 1251825140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be an advantage for larger numbers, sure. < 1251825140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicurious Befunge: "I'll subtract and multiply your constant both ways, baby." < 1251825140 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251825140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I could start from '#' since then I could do '# which is push-35 in one direction and do-nothing the other way. Still wouldn't be quite that short though. < 1251825140 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1251825140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, 2^64-1 is ff2+14'@*+1a'@*+128'@:***+"a7 /Q"***+***** < 1251825140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that time it's already better to use that base-64-reader < 1251825140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1251825141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's also 28'@'@:*:**:***1- if you apply some extra cleverness < 1251825233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do 0 ... 63^11-1 = 62050608388552823487 > 2^64 with 11 base-64 digits, and the extraction part -- 0>\#+:#*"@"-# \_$ -- is 17 characters, so that's an upper bound of 28 characters for any constant for a "normal" funge on a "normal" machine. < 1251825266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, base-63, I mean, and ? instead of @ there. < 1251825287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bongggggggggggggggggggg < 1251825319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63^11-1 is a nice one: "?11111QQ":*:******** < 1251825433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's certainly nicer than the base-63 representation, "}}}}}}}}}}}"0>\#+:#*"?"-# \_$ (again untested) < 1251825460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Factoring large prime numbers is, in general, hard." < 1251825460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— GNU Coreutils manual < 1251825468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, FSF! < 1251825486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ? < 1251825500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think that doesn't belong in a manual? < 1251825551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of like saying "Removing a file will render you unable to access its contents" in the rm manual :P < 1251825559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I just found it funny < 1251825565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, IMO < 1251825578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is kind of obvious, the former is specialized knowledge < 1251825600 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also continues with relevant stuff: "The Pollard Rho algorithm used by factor is particularly effective for numbers with relatively small factors. If you wish to factor large numbers which do not have small factors (for example, numbers which are the product of two large primes), other methods are far better." < 1251825601 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't expect people to know that factorization is computationally hard unless they're computer-sciencey < 1251825636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they could say "(for example, if you are trying to break RSA encryption)" there. < 1251825645 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1251825789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope nobody does that :P < 1251825804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to break RSA? < 1251825814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to break RSA with factor(1). < 1251825824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worth a try < 1251825837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but there is sort of a lot of stuff encrypted with RSA. < 1251825838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be bad. < 1251825856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is concievable that NSA's secret factorization algorithms have accidentally ended up in GNU Coreutils. < 1251825857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fear success? :-P < 1251825886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How much stuff have you got encrypted with pgp? < 1251825917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much < 1251825925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then :P < 1251825938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1251825942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I had, I wouldn't worry < 1251825945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd just melt down all of our current security entirely < 1251825949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't very good < 1251825955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wouldn't succeed :-P < 1251826051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What wouldn't? < 1251826059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaking RSA with factor(1) < 1251826066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie added factor(1) as a joke < 1251826070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said factor(1) < 1251826083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought he clarified what you meant < 1251826090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P < 1251826391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a cocktail of like 10 energy drinks. < 1251826398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not drink it due to valuing my life. < 1251826412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, factor(1) errors out for too large numbers iirc < 1251826433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I misremember < 1251826453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's the coreutils one, you can compile it with GMP support for large numbers. < 1251826469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% gfactor 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 < 1251826469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[hang] < 1251826471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed.. it errors out on my ubuntu system but not my gentoo desktop < 1251826475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't have picked such a big counterexample. < 1251826566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you can make use of multiple cpus to speed up factoring right? < 1251826588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well depends on your algorithm. At least the naive one should be easy to speed up that way < 1251826631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-one factors large numbers with that one, though. But yes, I think there are good parallel algorithms for it. < 1251826657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have no clue about is the state-of-the-art in number-factoring. < 1251826685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We can break real-world RSA in 2^97 years!" < 1251826717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, of course no one use the naive one for large numbers. At least no one sane. < 1251826866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on some quick googling, the current records from the RSA Factoring Challenge were done on an 80-node cluster. < 1251826873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mine is 5.7.1 and the efunge version I've got here got warnings about doing deprecated things < 1251826874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1251826877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what efunge version < 1251826909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is R13B-0 right? < 1251826937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no warnings on V5.7.2 for me with trunk or athr branch. < 1251826978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The efunge version I've got here" sounds like it might not be the newest. < 1251826991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use lp:efunge/trunk right? Not on rage.kuonet.org (see bzr info, look for "parent branch") < 1251827016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw 5.6.3 is probably too old < 1251827021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things to work correctly < 1251827043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that at least input will cause an exception with that old version. < 1251827070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R13B or later is pretty much required, since I use some unicode stuff that was added in that version < 1251827077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for input that is < 1251827262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what it was, some old trunk I haven't updated in months < 1251827282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, just curious, what was reported as deprecated? < 1251827288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you remember that is < 1251827297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC something about "array" or some such now being a primitive < 1251827325 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something becoming standard and thus using it in a variable name is deprecated, or something like that < 1251827335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh right, remember that. Yeah your copy is outdated < 1251827343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well a type spec name in fact < 1251827344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1251827351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I knew that it was outdated < 1251828067 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-141-90.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1251828902 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1251829376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw, most of your projects seems to be in haskell rather than D. Why didn't you decide to code ccbi2 in haskell too? < 1251831251 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251831540 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking for myself, it can be hard to predict performance in Haskell < 1251832245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, mhm < 1251832283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, considering how much Deewiant complained about the hash library in D recently I think his opinion is it is hard to predict performance in D too XD < 1251832295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tends to be rather easy in C though) < 1251834635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251834975 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-37-158.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1251835296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251835499 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1251836857 0 :nooga!n=nooga@86-63-124-134.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1251837260 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set f {x y: x+y} print f 1 2 #=> 3 < 1251837350 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set [: {until :] items : map items {x: x*2}} [[: 1 2 3 :] [: 4 :]] #=> [[2 4 6] [8]] < 1251837357 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool/uncool? < 1251837401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, language? < 1251837446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editing the panel in gnome is seriously annoying < 1251837447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1251837463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the "lock to panel" thingy is messing things up < 1251837464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1251837497 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set unless {cond `begin until `end terms : if not cond terms} < 1251837512 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless == a b begin do_sth end < 1251837518 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like uh < 1251837534 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defining functions with own pattern that parses args < 1251837674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what language.... < 1251837680 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none < 1251837683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1251837686 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a concept < 1251837715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nah, it's fairly easy to predict in D. < 1251837716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, to me it looks vaguely like a mix of perl and some functional language XD < 1251837722 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liek sadol with longer IDs, lambda and this pattern thingy < 1251837725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? "it sucks"? < 1251837731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1251837741 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If it's a feature built in to the compiler, then yeah. ;-) < 1251837754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, isn't the language itself built in? < 1251837762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a manner of speaking < 1251837764 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251837769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1251837771 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251837772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes yes, you know what I meant. :-P < 1251837774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks by weird compiler bugs < 1251837774 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, i wrote 'liek' accidentally for the first time in my life < 1251837783 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1251837785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wrong file in debug info < 1251837807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for CCBI2, two reasons: 1. I had 6000 lines of D code for a Befunge interp already... 2. Since we're all performance-crazy and the whole thing is rather imperative in nature, Haskell isn't that great a fit. < 1251837812 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about? :| < 1251837817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right < 1251837824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ccbi... < 1251837830 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1251837842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 6800 lines only? < 1251837860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's not a weird bug, it's quite a sensible one actually. < 1251837867 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=ccbi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 < 1251837875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them is still unfixed, even. < 1251837891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language Files Code Comment Comment % Blank Total < 1251837891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------------- ----- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- < 1251837891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c 95 8848 3542 28.6% 1597 13987 < 1251837892 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251837893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really matter since the mangled name contains the module where it is :-P < 1251837897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 6800 lines isn't a lot < 1251837904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It was less than 10000 last I checked. < 1251837921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I said 6000, not 6800. < 1251837923 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bork < 1251837926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably more like 8000 though. < 1251837930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember. < 1251837935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, plus another 2745 LOC (4573 total) for the lib directory, which contains libghthash and genx < 1251837945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that stringbuffer too < 1251837961 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about your bf to C ? < 1251837967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, which one of them < 1251837974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, and they are all dormant < 1251837982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the projects I mean < 1251837995 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1251838010 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's that? i thought that was a rather interesting topic < 1251838065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, didn't know enough CS to write a better optimiser at that time. My choice of design was a bit limited. Maybe I'll write yet another one in a few years. < 1251838068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1251838080 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS? < 1251838086 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1251838087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer science < 1251838092 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1251838100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I couldn't work out how to work the graphs :P < 1251838105 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the firs thing i thought about was Counter-Strike < 1251838117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, that is the last thing that would come to my mind for CS < 1251838138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) computer science 2) file extension for C# 3) hm no idea... 4) oh wait... 5) wasn < 1251838139 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's because i played half-life 1 for last 12h < 1251838142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't* it some game? < 1251838149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6) damn don't remember what that game was called < 1251838161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, I never played half life < 1251838162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1251838163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cs < 1251838165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1251838172 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never played cs < 1251838177 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's boring < 1251838177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1251838179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1251838188 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hl1 is a memmory from childhood < 1251838193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1251838201 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;] < 1251838213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, age? < 1251838221 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current? < 1251838226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1251838228 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21, probably < 1251838237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you played half life? < 1251838243 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember < 1251838245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, half life of what? < 1251838251 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHHHH < 1251838260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uranium? thorium? < 1251838262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something else < 1251838263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1251838269 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_(video_game) < 1251838269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what? < 1251838275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GHHHH <-- why that < 1251838303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I know it is a game, I just wonder what element the title of that game refers too < 1251838305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to* < 1251838308 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onomatopoeia < 1251838317 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that GHHHH < 1251838324 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the title < 1251838341 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it refers to some person that if half dead < 1251838344 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1251838346 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1251838355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1251838359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds boring < 1251838405 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just fucking awesome < 1251838418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, I never liked first person shooters < 1251838425 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1251838429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh? < 1251838432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dislike them too < 1251838436 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1251838437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1251838442 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buut that one is cool < 1251838451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor third person shooters btw. < 1251838454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half-Life is just a scientific term, it has no particular meaning in the context of the game < 1251838461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though first person ones are worse < 1251838471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have expansions called "Blue Shift" and such, too. < 1251838479 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never seen that < 1251838496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, blue shift refers to Doppler effect? < 1251838508 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1251838510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of anything else it could refer to < 1251838522 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny: if you translate half-life to Polish it will look like: czas połowicznego rozpadu < 1251838527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what has that got to do with half life? < 1251838535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nothing, as I just explained. < 1251838554 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blie shift -> przesunięcie ku fioletowi < 1251838556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess uranium travelling at high speed towards you would blue shift ;P < 1251838567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, "blie"? < 1251838569 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue* < 1251838571 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1251838573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1251838588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:half-life = sv:halveringstid < 1251838600 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much cooler < 1251838601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets hear the fi one Deewiant! < 1251838614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, it literally means "halving-time" < 1251838628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puoliintumisaika < 1251838633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nice one < 1251838644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how the hell do you pronounce it < 1251838650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also literally "halving-time" < 1251838658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1251838664 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ˈpuɔliːn̪t̪umisˌɑikɑ] < 1251838674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mhm < 1251838684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the dirt below the n and the t? < 1251838703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, I just copied that from Wiktionary < 1251838707 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pl:czas połowicznego rozpadu = en:half decay time < 1251838730 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-3-02.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1251838771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently it means they're dental consonants < 1251838816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wanted to know what ̪ /is/, it's U+032A COMBINING BRIDGE BELOW < 1251838824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems en:blue shift is sv:blåförskjutning according to Wikipedia < 1251838832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds familiar too < 1251838841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:sinisiirtymä < 1251838862 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blåförskjutning.. I think I've heard about that once < 1251838865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well literal translation of the sv: one would end up as blue shift I think < 1251838870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, same... < 1251838883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, rödförskjutning too it seems < 1251838894 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't heard about that one, though < 1251838901 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Blåförskjutning är motsatsen till rödförskjutning" < 1251838906 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, great information < 1251838910 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you write swedish word "lax" in IPA? < 1251838916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, well the red one isn't a stub < 1251838918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would help < 1251838919 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, I'd've thought red shift is better known < 1251838920 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the article about the red one was a bit longer < 1251838923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to click the link < 1251838923 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed now < 1251838935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1251838951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why is that < 1251838952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1251838973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, why is that Yes < 1251838978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to quote FireFly: < 1251838981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, great information < 1251838982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's not what you asked < 1251838991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well... < 1251838994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, oh? < 1251838994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, why is that < 1251838994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes < 1251838999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was for the former < 1251839007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-01 23:02:15 ( AnMaster) Deewiant, oh? < 1251839007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-01 23:02:29 ( Deewiant) Yes < 1251839007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-01 23:02:32 ( AnMaster) Deewiant, why is that < 1251839017 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And from a NPOV: < 1251839018 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:02:15] Deewiant, oh? < 1251839018 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:02:32] Yes < 1251839018 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:02:32] Deewiant, why is that < 1251839028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a 2 sec difference here :P < 1251839045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, for the "why", redshift is much more prominent in astronomy < 1251839058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah hm right < 1251839064 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I vissa fall förekommer också det motsatta fenomenet, blåförskjutning." < 1251839073 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like blue ones are less common < 1251839075 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1251839078 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And therefore more unknown? < 1251839081 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, less known* < 1251839085 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from CS to red shift < 1251839095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what a shift of topic ;P < 1251839095 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric < 1251839157 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, #esoteric, and therefore we may not talk about anything remotely related to esolangs < 1251839209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, redshift is just what you're more likely to run into so I'd consider it more likely that one has never heard of blueshift < 1251839219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, we did talk about ccbi above < 1251839224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you actually know what either is, it should be obvious what the other is. < 1251839228 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes! < 1251839232 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone, ban AnMaster! < 1251839236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, and Deewiant < 1251839242 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *!*@* < 1251839246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes indeed < 1251839256 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you said it again! < 1251839258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll make sure all discussion is on-topic, at least < 1251839423 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251839476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, said what again? < 1251839494 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You talked about esolangs again, or rather, mentioned ccbi < 1251839505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, So did you now! < 1251839506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1251839516 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was a semi-pun of the Holy Grail knights who say Ni < 1251839521 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With "you said it again!" < 1251839535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, that reference was too far fetched by far < 1251839541 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1251839553 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1251839555 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far too far fetched < 1251839559 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far too far fetched by far < 1251839573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, ah yes that would have been even better < 1251839620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I'm pretty sure "you said it again" is not unique to the knights who use the Swedish word for first person plural :P < 1251839625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1251839627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second person < 1251839631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1251839638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, I forgot my grammar :P < 1251839652 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely not first person, at least < 1251839656 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second, yeah < 1251839656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1251839656 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi/ < 1251839657 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1251839663 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TYPO!!!!!!!!!@@!!21212 < 1251839668 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant ni < 1251839675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1251839682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, så vad vill ni? < 1251839684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1251839695 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag va inte < 1251839706 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably want "vet" there < 1251839712 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1251839741 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish must be confusing for someone not knowing the language at all < 1251839747 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or language family < 1251839774 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But so is probably all languages, depending on how far away they are from other languages one knows < 1251839793 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brother speaks swedish almost fluently < 1251839803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, do you think that smorgasbord is one of the funniest English words? < 1251839816 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English? < 1251839818 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just from reading few books and listening swedish radio < 1251839822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's one of those stupidest loan words < 1251839830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yes, they copied it and dropped the dots < 1251839831 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and being there for a month < 1251839831 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is it an english loan word? < 1251839836 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I didn't know < 1251839840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, they loaned it from Swedish < 1251839845 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, yeah < 1251839850 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds... really odd < 1251839852 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stupid < 1251839855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1251839856 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-104-147.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251839862 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess it's partly because I'm used to it < 1251839870 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the swedish one, I mean < 1251839882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1251839889 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:smorgasbord = pl:szwedzki stół < 1251839890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, they loaned ombudsman too btw < 1251839899 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1251839904 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whish means literally Swedish table < 1251839905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, how should I know < 1251839907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they do that < 1251839913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is a parasite, feeding off other languages < 1251839914 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sandwhich table sounds all right to me < 1251839918 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way better, at least < 1251839923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I guess because we invented the concept < 1251839933 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. GOD I LOVE FOOD AT IKEA < 1251839941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, iirc they loaned gravad lax too... but for once put it into *one* word < 1251839948 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend of mine ate swedish meatballs when he was in the States < 1251839950 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lax lax lax < 1251839950 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At IKEA < 1251839951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it is Swedish that writes words together instead < 1251839952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finns have had it as long as the Swedes, I think < 1251839961 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 lax < 1251839967 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` lax < 1251839968 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1251839975 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1251839981 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that kind of grave accent < 1251839986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, gravadlax ... doesn't that look weird? < 1251840004 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks written together < 1251840013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:graavilohi < 1251840019 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ravioli? < 1251840020 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gravioli? < 1251840021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, iirc that is how they do it. Unlike Swedish.. for once < 1251840031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ravioli is from it: right? < 1251840036 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1251840038 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is pizza < 1251840042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of pasta? < 1251840044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1251840045 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm happy we didn't invent a word for it < 1251840073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, iirc norwegian translated broadcasting to "kringkastning". Not sure what the Swedish word is in fact < 1251840101 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me I'm hungry < 1251840120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, no you are Polish, not from hungry :P < 1251840123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bad pun!) < 1251840152 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hungary < 1251840158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yeah < 1251840167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was what made the pun so bad < 1251840171 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"from hungry" doesn't make sense < 1251840179 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you could spell out the country name :P < 1251840184 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway < 1251840187 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broadcasting... < 1251840194 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sända? < 1251840205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, that is en:send right? < 1251840210 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1251840221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, it would be more like sänd till alla < 1251840226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sound weird < 1251840227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1251840231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radio < 1251840231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To transmit a message or signal via radio waves or electronic means < 1251840231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sända < 1251840231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :direktsända < 1251840235 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says tyda.se < 1251840240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyda.se? < 1251840244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what that is < 1251840245 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation thingie < 1251840248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1251840251 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyda < 1251840252 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in < 1251840255 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To.. understand? < 1251840256 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh < 1251840257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A URL, obviously < 1251840258 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1251840260 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah < 1251840269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyda: to interpret < 1251840279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fi: tulkita) < 1251840280 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, yeah, better translation < 1251840290 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1251840291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, direktsändning would be live broadcasting then? < 1251840295 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1251840299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or why did you mention it above < 1251840313 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't, the site did < 1251840316 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And < 1251840321 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Referring to an interpreter as "tydare" would look strange < 1251840332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, tolk? < 1251840339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1251840342 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fi:tulkki) < 1251840342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be translator < 1251840357 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tolk would me more like compiler < 1251840359 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, tolk = en:interpreter < 1251840363 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1251840369 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1251840370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:tulkki = en:interpreter in the context of computers as well < 1251840376 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about se:tolk there < 1251840417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firehm < 1251840432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a course for this < 1251840436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check the course name < 1251840441 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot , < 1251840446 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before the "hm" < 1251840450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1251840458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, actually, tab inserts , and space < 1251840473 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: no it does not < 1251840473 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1251840484 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it inserts : and space < 1251840494 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the settings of your client, pretty much < 1251840495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, .................... stop being silly..... depends on client of course < 1251840496 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer , to : < 1251840500 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure :D < 1251840511 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I want my tab to autocomplete with only nick < 1251840516 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always < 1251840519 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's how I havet it < 1251840522 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have* < 1251840531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, unless at start of line it just completes with space :P < 1251840537 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1251840547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly <-- like that, was just f a few times < 1251840566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam: spam spam spam spam spam spam spam < 1251840579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :) < 1251840585 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sausage < 1251840588 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacon < 1251840589 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam < 1251840595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbam < 1251840612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck oru.se.... needs to be www.oru.se < 1251840708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Datateknik C, Kompilatorer och interpretatorer, 7,5 högskolepoäng, valbar* < 1251840708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1251840733 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Örebro < 1251840734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the context of computers, at least in that course name it is not "tolk" < 1251840737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yes? < 1251840754 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just thinking loudly < 1251840764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, :P < 1251840784 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's relatively central, right? < 1251840789 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. in central sweden < 1251840789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, eh? < 1251840792 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horizontal-wise < 1251840804 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1251840808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, google maps? < 1251840809 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it? < 1251840810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google earth < 1251840828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, anyway a bit south of stockholm in the N/S direction < 1251840845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and near the middle in the E/W direction < 1251840849 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1251840864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, need to read up on geography :P < 1251840874 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know my geography sucks :< < 1251840901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, so where is Kiruna? < 1251840909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :north or south... < 1251840911 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...north :P < 1251840914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... of the polar circle < 1251840916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1251840917 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh < 1251840930 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :North of the northern whateverthoselinesonthemaparecalled < 1251840931 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1251840940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whateverthoselinesonthemaparecalled <-- err? < 1251840952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"on therma ???" < 1251840959 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot the names of the lines < 1251840960 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the map < 1251840970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1251840979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well polarcirkel in Swedish < 1251840985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1251840999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, North or south of Narvik? < 1251841008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about relative Gällivari? (spelling?) < 1251841010 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Narvik... I think I've heard of it < 1251841025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yeah in norway < 1251841052 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I don't really know, as I said my geography isn't really good :P < 1251841053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, iron ore mines in Kirnua you know? Sent by train to Narvik, then taken away with ships < 1251841059 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1251841061 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1251841074 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was in Abisko a few years ago < 1251841078 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last summer, IIRC < 1251841084 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I should know this better, I guess :P < 1251841093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :narvik is north of Kiruna < 1251841100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(time was out) < 1251841104 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"." < 1251841120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, also I was in Kiruna this summer. Never went quite as far north as Abisko < 1251841155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, btw where is Göteborg relative Stockholm? < 1251841160 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :South < 1251841163 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N/S wise, that is < 1251841164 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1251841169 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, west :P < 1251841170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"of course"? < 1251841176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1251841178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that of course < 1251841193 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can take it granted that I know that Göteborg is on the western coast of Sweden :P < 1251841194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, jönköping relative göteborg? < 1251841203 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly east? < 1251841209 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And < 1251841212 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit... south? < 1251841216 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though not a lot < 1251841223 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is my guess < 1251841235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, not a lot in that case, on this map I just double checked on it looked at the same level < 1251841263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly slightly north, but not sure < 1251841284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, where is Ekeby? < 1251841284 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, I though they were pretty leveled < 1251841287 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no idea < 1251841302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, trick question. There are lots of places named ekeby :P < 1251841321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google earth pops up 9. and I see two ones missing there at least < 1251843194 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ö < 1251843388 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251843448 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251843760 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1251845339 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1251855352 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1251855352 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1251858333 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-185.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1251859058 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251860093 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251860096 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251860119 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1251860563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1251862277 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251862535 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1251864150 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251864761 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1251865779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251865787 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1251865798 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1251866402 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1251866697 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251867012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will I be killed for using reinterpret_cast here? http://codepad.org/dCpL2Gmc < 1251867024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1251867046 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, that will almost certainly do exactly what you don't want it to < 1251867058 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably just want static_cast < 1251867115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, but that would convert the float to an int that's just the float rounded down < 1251867120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't help me < 1251867126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what do you want then? < 1251867146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be able to go to the next highest or lowest representable float < 1251867236 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I don't think there's a standard way to do that < 1251867255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try adding the epsilon value, but denormalized values will get in the way of that < 1251867265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cygnus-software.com/papers/comparingfloats/comparingfloats.htm < 1251867278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This means that if we take two floats in memory, interpret their bit pattern as integers, and compare them, we can tell which is larger, without doing a floating point comparison." < 1251867304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of comparing, I want to go to the next or previous, but the idea was similar enough < 1251867333 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but what if this change results in a change in the appropriate exponent? < 1251867403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would mean that the next float wouldn't just be +1 in the representation, but + something larger? That would break my program :( < 1251867414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1251867481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please enter the altitude: 2 < 1251867481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The shell below 2.0000000000 is 1.9999998808 < 1251867489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it looks as though it works < 1251867555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... I guess that will work with IEEE numbers < 1251867563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are two possible solutions if you encounter this problem. Turn off the strict aliasing option using the -fno-strict-aliasing switch, or use a union between a float and an int to implement the reinterpretation of a float as an int. The documentation for -fstrict-aliasing gives more information." < 1251867575 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: use a union < 1251867583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that may only apply to comparisons < 1251867585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on < 1251867601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works on my compiler as is, and I don't feel like trying to fix it for codepad right now < 1251867608 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: /join geordi < 1251867609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a union may be better than reinterpret_cast < 1251867944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, as-is, it's still giving me predictions, and the emperical data so far seems to largely agree < 1251867955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I should improve the model somewhat < 1251867964 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: imo, you're better off picking a very low delta and a bigfloat < 1251868000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither of those will help determine gravitational delay in Second Life < 1251868014 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo < 1251868099 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you see my PM? < 1251869091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1251870573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: true, but what if this change results in a change in the appropriate exponent? <<< you mean the mantissa overflowing? the whole float range is ordered, that would lead to exactly what it's supposed to < 1251870585 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251870613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but wouldn't the mantissa overflowing lead to the exponent only going up by one? < 1251870617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1251870640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what you want, the leading one moving one left < 1251870641 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1251870656 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251870671 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1251870671 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just a *2 < 1251870686 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the mantissa going back to 0 is a -2^(mantissa digits) < 1251870691 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251870713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1251870763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x yyyy zzzzz means -1^x * 2^(yyyy - ...) * 1.zzzzz < 1251870764 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it in memory? < 1251870777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if yyyy grows by one, and zzzz goes to zero < 1251870788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's 1. < 1251870789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okk < 1251870798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we get from 1.11111... to 2.00000, say < 1251870863 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1251870885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, if they were infinite floats, then that would be wrong < 1251870925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1251870928 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway gotta get going now < 1251870949 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatons \o/ < 1251870975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the last lecture, i just spontaneously started dancing because they were so cool < 1251870982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1251870983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but -> < 1251878399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1251878400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1251878478 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1251878478 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1251878666 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1251882534 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251883856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/20090828/llvm-logo.png < 1251883864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a bitchin' compiler infrastructure logo < 1251883875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never want to use anything else < 1251883918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks more like the "complexity of compiler design" from the dragon book. < 1251884315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:51] AnMaster: and yes I know it is a game, I just wonder what element the title of that game refers too < 1251884315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:51] AnMaster: to* < 1251884315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a physicist or something. and it's a pun on, like, you know, dying. (disclaimer: I haven't played it, I'm just guessing) < 1251884315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[04:50] Sgeo: Will I be killed for using reinterpret_cast here? http://codepad.org/dCpL2Gmc < 1251884315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just for using C++ < 1251884338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's coming across as "If you fucking dare to use gcc I'll rip you to shreds" < 1251884386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Apple is committed to full C++ support for Clang, and hopes to work out the remaining GCC incompatibilities during Snow Leopard's lifetime." < 1251884387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1251884431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/20090828/xcode-error-2-clang.png ← this is pretty much enough to make me use xcode < 1251884449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/20090828/static-analyzer.png ← Oh, you're kidding me. < 1251884457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can't possibly work, it's too awesome. < 1251884506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, apparently the shipped userland apps in Snow Leopard are compiled with clang. < 1251884551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess that explains how they implemented blocks without tearing their hair out. < 1251884577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's supported in gcc too < 1251885309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But wait, there's more! GCD queues can actually be arranged in arbitrarily complex directed acyclic graphs. (Actually, they can be cyclic too, but then the behavior is undefined. Don't do that.)" < 1251885737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/20090828/opencl-logo-150.png "OpenCL: Your GPU is sort of like a galaxy." < 1251886365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm worried by stories of the key symbols wearing off the DAS." < 1251886368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the Ultimate! < 1251887231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why people find that worrying < 1251887265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they care that much about their key symbols? < 1251887643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like key symbols to me <3 < 1251887651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I imagine hunt and peckists bother :P < 1251887686 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do hunt and peckists use nonstandard keyboards like the DAS? < 1251887709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P < 1251888369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have about 30 windows open right now < 1251888371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should fix that < 1251888388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I truly do need window manager GC... < 1251888938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asset.soup.io/asset/0399/7711_459f_800.jpeg < 1251888938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1251891656 0 :anm_ub!n=AnMaster@PC96-180.oru.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251891676 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh.... lost connection to home, I guess anmaster will time out soon < 1251891733 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't have the nick pass around here < 1251891734 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1251892313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1251892594 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thunderstorm here heh < 1251893209 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1251893816 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1251893827 0 :anm_ub!n=AnMaster@PC96-180.oru.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251894097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we should use these for the uberrig - http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/09/01/petabytes-on-a-budget-how-to-build-cheap-cloud-storage/ < 1251894245 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1251894248 0 :anm_ub!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1251895164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, if you select a non-linked url in safari and right click you can open it <3 < 1251895169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i know opera does that < 1251896988 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1251898102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-QJ4T3ix4c < 1251899350 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1251899517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://glennbeckrapedandmurderedayounggirlin1990.com/ ;; Congrats, reddit. You just reached a new low. < 1251899566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly it's funny. < 1251899616 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1251899768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION copies 4.68GB from a disk image to a harddrive < 1251899781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it's moving filesystems or anything, but oh no :P < 1251899782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1251899785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's moving filesystems < 1251899787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not disks < 1251899790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the filesystem TYPES are the same < 1251899802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, one of the filesystems is an imaginary one... < 1251902447 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1251902447 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1251903349 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1251903364 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-185.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1251905963 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1251906437 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the static analyzer screenshot reminds me of drscheme < 1251906443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1251906455 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but less ugly and well, static :) < 1251906497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I truly do need window manager GC... < 1251906509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you cover up a window completely, it disappears? :D < 1251906588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:55:38 http://asset.soup.io/asset/0399/7711_459f_800.jpeg < 1251906588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:55:38 ;_; < 1251906608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the smell _does_ bring tears to your eyes. how did you know? < 1251906675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : thunderstorm here heh <-- was here too tonight, and this morning < 1251906703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ^ < 1251906819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 02:55:38 http://asset.soup.io/asset/0399/7711_459f_800.jpeg <-- XD < 1251906826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi < 1251906852 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-151-91.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251906879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1251907789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Totally. < 1251908468 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251908941 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1251909025 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee! My internets are working again :D < 1251909133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1251909144 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1251909612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1251909689 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-75.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251909698 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251909868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here seen ? < 1251909872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails on at least two levels, quite possibly 3 < 1251910004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the daily wtf is hopeless nowadays < 1251910011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember when they stole that name recently? < 1251910014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the whole email exchange < 1251910021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alex Papadimoulis is a dick < 1251910044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So now that you've mentioned an arrangement other than me taking your name, idea and content and using them for my site without even crediting you, I'll conveniently talk about something else!" < 1251910059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what name did they steal? < 1251910083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming praxis < 1251910095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally an arrangement with another site, programmingpraxis.com < 1251910099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but alex refused to link to the site < 1251910103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even mention its owner < 1251910108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just stole the idea and even the content < 1251910113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he thought he would be credited) < 1251910122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, when asked to just change the name and move on < 1251910129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said sorry; we've "used it for too long" < 1251910135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they'll just have to share < 1251910137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not exaggerating < 1251910148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://programmingpraxis.com/2009/08/13/the-daily-wtf-maliciously-infringes-programming-praxis-trademark/ < 1251910154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :includes link to the email exchange < 1251910197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that why the renamed it? < 1251910201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*they < 1251910226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: after it got on reddit and he tried to "clarify" (i.e. "Yes, I did it, but I'm not a dickwad... because!") and everyone, well, pointed out he was a dick < 1251910227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1251910635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It'll use about 400 000W, and cost $900 000." < 1251910635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— 4 petaflop, off-the-shelf supercomputer http://helmer3.sfe.se/ < 1251910644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :donations now accepted :P < 1251910665 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251911329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: our uberrig just got 1-upped < 1251911331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ < 1251911660 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251911711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Holy damn. < 1251911719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even sort of fits into one structure! < 1251911761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: note that if you just got 3 instead of 10 for 2pflops, it'd be "only" $270,000 < 1251911783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use "only" 120kw < 1251911793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love their cooling design < 1251911802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you made the enclosures transparent it'd be beautiful < 1251911812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing the blue, glowing cooling fluid run all over the place : < 1251911813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1251911816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1251911958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta like one of those old liquid cooled Crays < 1251911964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for fishies < 1251912876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm with alex on that one < 1251912899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: on the other hand, you're an insane psychopath < 1251912901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no worries :D < 1251912997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worries are for suckers < 1251913546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1251913551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1251913697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 hi < 1251913707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I have to say hi again? < 1251913734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES! < 1251913737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1251913743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais hi 523 < 1251913746 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251913751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SB < 1251913753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sb < 1251913757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BS! < 1251913793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you refresh a page after first loading it ~10 seconds ago and something new appears, it's eerie < 1251913829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251913853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1251913854 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251913858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it? < 1251913867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was dumb < 1251913872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i was just about to join with a new nick on the chan < 1251913873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I mis < 1251913875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1251913877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes. < 1251913879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and? :P < 1251913884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you'd only waited 30 seconds < 1251913887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: one line from AnMaster, which he repeated when you turned back up < 1251913889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refresh joke < 1251913896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dun gedit < 1251913897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you wanted it. < 1251913910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopping ~ refreshing < 1251913914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1251913920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, heh < 1251913929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like SomethingNew < 1251913963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're so incomprehensible, oklopol :D < 1251913972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think that made perfect sense < 1251913981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think about it a lot. < 1251913997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean about 2 seconds? < 1251914023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If I take the opposite position to ehird all the time, nobody will be confused as to how much I dislike him! < 1251914024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was the obvious joke :P < 1251914032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yep indeed < 1251914059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's true i'm not exactly that good at having conversations with humans, i usually assume they can deduce context by reading my mind. < 1251914063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um I think you got that wrong. 99% of the time it is you who is taking the opposite position < 1251914081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How apropos of you to take the opposite position to what I just said. < 1251914091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, when i suddenly start continuing a conversation that happened weeks ago < 1251914101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I said 99%, not 100%. :P < 1251914103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think that'd break the lawnmower < 1251914104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1251914146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : say, when i suddenly start continuing a conversation that happened weeks ago <-- sounds more like something zzo would do < 1251914158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo never has conversations < 1251914162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no context for that, but, i'm not saying it's because i can read minds, it's because i have sucky people skills < 1251914163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just repeats a question over and over < 1251914178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "sucky people skills" means you're shy or something, i just suck < 1251914179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: have you considered using a pill instead of a lawnmower < 1251914217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checked, no context for that < 1251914230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:55] ehird: oklopol: I think that'd break the lawnmower < 1251914231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail :P < 1251914239 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1251914247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the first one and the second one together < 1251914286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I was both continuing a week-old conversation and using the patented oklopol method of conversation that is "skip a bunch of logical inferences because I'm sure you can work them out" :P < 1251914305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1251914309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can only do one at the time! :P < 1251914320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the hair-dryer though? < 1251914320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: OH YEAH? WELL WHAT DID I JUST DO THEN < 1251914332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't funny when you continue the joke after the reveal < 1251914345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the conversation < 1251914351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what exactly would be wrong with that < 1251914361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it just isn't funny < 1251914370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: any! < 1251914374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since when was that a goal < 1251914387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well that's just stupid < 1251914415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because otherwise it's just stupid ,and if you admit to trying to be stupid i will stab you. < 1251914420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :( < 1251914429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but I can provide inferences for all possible conversations < 1251914459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw http://helmer.sfe.se/ is quite interesting too < 1251914465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is same but without the 3 < 1251914476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1251914489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah exactly, there is a helmer2 too it seems < 1251914507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like a budget :P < 1251914585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, go to main page sfe.se and I think that explains it < 1251914599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Very happy!! I had a very nice talk with AMD, and they are going to send some hardware so I can start testing :)) Thank you!" < 1251914610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like people skills that good! < 1251914612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i don't actively remember that many conversations, the human brain doesn't work that way < 1251914834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nslu2windsensor.sfe.se/ <-- heh. this guy is cool < 1251914835 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1251916407 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251916710 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To calibrate the wind speed sensor we just tejped it to the car and drove around." < 1251916713 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tejped" < 1251916895 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251917149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )" < 1251917781 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1251918546 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tejp" in swedish means "Tape" (pronounced the same). < 1251918833 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know :D < 1251918846 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks very unfitting in an english context < 1251918865 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :182 hits on google for "tejped" < 1251919406 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-75.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251921806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me, or is it that most of the time people say "well gee I'm a sociopath", they mean "well gee I'm an asshole, but you can't dislike me for that, it's *medical*" < 1251922760 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because I have never heard anyone say that < 1251922799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have < 1251923665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251923895 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009080315]" < 1251924129 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1251925647 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251925711 0 :exaltation!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251926061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the email log isn't there < 1251926067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering how anyone could side with Alex < 1251926928 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1251927750 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251927996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we seem to be getting a new sort of spam over at Esolang < 1251928014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spambots are pasting Apache 404s onto Talk:Main Page/index.php... < 1251929184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1251929217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is "broken spambot" < 1251929229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they scrape their spam from a website < 1251929242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam bots do all sorts of weird shit < 1251930613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251931089 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.91.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251932412 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And for programmers the paradox is even more pronounced: the language to learn, if you want to get a good job, is a language that people don't learn merely to get a job." -- http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html < 1251933003 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1251933014 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1251934490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: it isn't funny when you continue the joke after the reveal < 1251934494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends, i say < 1251934519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i enjoy reddit pun threads, so... < 1251934521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: should I stab you for quoting paul graham, or stab you for quoting paul graham < 1251934526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an important decision < 1251934540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i suggest you stab him for quoting paul graham instead < 1251934544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1251934548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs MizardX for quoting paul graham < 1251934551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should feel bad. < 1251934637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'd like people skills that good! < 1251934650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean your own experiences are more like something out of dilbert? < 1251934674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mainly guessing, there) < 1251934674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu < 1251934697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unrelatedly, what i meant by the message was "it sure would be nice if AMD sent me a bunch of hardware by asking them") < 1251934714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 182 hits on google for "tejped" < 1251934730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's an english suffix on a swedish word... < 1251934828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tejpad, on the other hand, gives 32100 < 1251934854 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after 3, 2, and 1, it's hard to expect anything but 0000000 < 1251934873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a suggestion of did you mean "textpad" < 1251934888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: dude, you're lament, not some freaky new person :P < 1251934922 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi? do I know you? < 1251934935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: whois don't lie < 1251934939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a lamentable attempt < 1251935030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he has, um, not yet achieved exaltation < 1251935033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of... his goal < 1251935037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : spambots are pasting Apache 404s onto Talk:Main Page/index.php... <-- you deleted the funny joke in the original spam :( ;) < 1251935064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define exalted < 1251935068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what was it? < 1251935093 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1251935095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: something russian, i pasted the google translate yesterday < 1251935120 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's russian, i can possibly do a better job than google translate. < 1251935144 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the spam? < 1251935148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh even _i_ can do a better job than google translate, in fact i submitted a suggestion to it < 1251935150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi exaltation, I haven't seen you around for a while < 1251935170 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1251935187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: ais523 deleted the page < 1251935191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I think I mean "at all" rather than "for a while" < 1251935194 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1251935203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can undelete it if necessary, but as it's spam, there's unlikely to be a need < 1251935220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i actually pasted the russian version < 1251935235 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the translation? < 1251935283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : google's lousy translation: "The teacher asks Vovochka: - Little Johnny, why do you yesterday did not come to school? - Grandpa burns received ... - Oh! But seriously hurt? - Of course! In the crematorium are not joking." < 1251935323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually i am _sure_ i did not paste the russian version, since that would have required unicode) < 1251935330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: paste the russian plz < 1251935342 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1251935346 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1251935359 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for how on earth could Vovochka become Johnny?) < 1251935378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: approx date? < 1251935391 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for russian < 1251935413 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Вовочка, ты почему вчера не пришел в школу? - Дедушка ожеги получил... - Ой! А серьезно пострадал? - Конечно! В крематории не шутят. < 1251935418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the russian though < 1251935418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (little Johnny == Vovochka, except they're in different case and google only translates one of them fully to english) < 1251935424 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go, that's the russian < 1251935441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't it take like three clicks :P < 1251935441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.08.31 < 1251935443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an older spam in russian, too < 1251935447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dating from June < 1251935461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was the old spam of that page i was talking about < 1251935480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== Анекдоты == Учительница спрашивает Вовочку: - Вовочка, ты почему вчера не пришел в школу? - Дедушка ожеги получил... - Ой! А серьезно пострадал? - Конечно! В крематории не шутят. < 1251935483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there it is, in full < 1251935512 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pasted it first :P < 1251935528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: you missed two lines at the start, though, so I thought I may as well do the whole thing < 1251935574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, he got it exactly right < 1251935587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: did you actually back translate that? < 1251935593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is russian, no? < 1251935599 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translated the punchline and googled for the rest to get it exact < 1251935604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1251935607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :P < 1251935618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater < 1251935708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it in that log < 1251935748 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the google translation is actually good < 1251935751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :search for johnny < 1251935752 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the broken grammar < 1251935768 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it preserves the seriously hurt / not joking pun < 1251935780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering what the joke is < 1251935795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: wait, that was a pun? < 1251935812 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Was he seriously hurt? - Of course, they're not joking at the crematorium" < 1251935843 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pun on the two meanings of seriously < 1251935896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pun works in Russian too? < 1251935909 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1251935942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i'm not sure it really works in english (or the equivalent norwegian, which would be similar), because the adverbial phrase has a fixed meaning nothing to do with humor < 1251935974 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it's better in russian, that's why it's a russian joke < 1251935985 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the punchline itself is funnier in russian < 1251935995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in English, it's a bad pun; I can imagine it would be a rather better pun in Russian < 1251936003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1251936086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then i didn't notice the pun before exaltation mentioned it, and still thought it was funny) < 1251936123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you know that joke about the two tomatoes which ends with "Come on, catch up"? < 1251936166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been translated into norwegian as "Kom an, ketsjup", totally without any pun. Still makes children laugh. :D < 1251936218 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with russian < 1251936241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then makes adults groan once, after years have passed, they learn that it was originally an english pun < 1251936261 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another great quote from the russian pulp fiction translation: "it's not a motorcycle, baby, it's a helicopter") < 1251936268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you mean, puns are funny in translation even if they're no longer puns? < 1251936294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sometimes the absurdity remains, or even gets stronger... < 1251936316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now someone's going to have to translate some funny puns into English for me < 1251936383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Two polar bears are in a bath. < 1251936392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that the entire pun? < 1251936393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One asks the other to pass the soap, and the other replies: "No soap, radio!" < 1251936401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's *hilarious* in Lojban. < 1251936402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: [[w:No soap radio]] < 1251936404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats ehird -----### < 1251936409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=No_soap_radio < 1251936412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No shit :P < 1251936416 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Poruchik Rzhevsky, tell us a pun! - Sure. Shitwise, brown; bodywise, white" < 1251936417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the best answer to that joke in existence < 1251936433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: howso < 1251936470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upon reading that page, incidentally, I strained my mind to think of a situation in which that punchline was actually funny < 1251936472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failed < 1251936478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if there was one, it would be a great anti-anti-joke < 1251936504 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody laughs at my pun :( < 1251936536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Swede was pondering math. "It's called integral, but what then?" < 1251936543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: it's interesting, but maybe not funny < 1251936550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English, I mean < 1251936558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks more like an intellectual exercise than a pun < 1251936568 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Russian, "shitwise, brown" and "pun" actually sound the same. < 1251936577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a popular norwegian joke about swedes because it's one of the few they cannot properly reverse on us) < 1251936590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1251936611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers asking #lojban for some Lojban puns translated to English < 1251936637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well popular among norwegian mathematicians, i guess there's some limitation there < 1251936799 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:No_soap_radio#Slightly_funny_after_all.3F < 1251936802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i cannot find it on google < 1251936850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaltation: the issue with that is that it isn't funny. < 1251936866 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i think it's funny < 1251936867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i find it funnier as a surrealist joke. < 1251936898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION for once agrees with ehird that something isn't funny < 1251936965 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny as a surrealist cojoke. < 1251936986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co yourself. < 1251936988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that be cofunny, rather < 1251936996 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's cofunny. < 1251937168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: new spam page < 1251937182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Talk:W/) < 1251937211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1251938123 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nighty < 1251938133 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1251938211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251939131 0 :exaltation!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :exalt < 1251939156 0 :exalt!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :orgasm < 1251939157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he used to be an alt, but now he's a baryton < 1251939275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes the english terms are not that < 1251940495 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251940785 0 :orgasm!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1251940847 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-141-90.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1251944267 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251944745 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1251945160 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.135.38.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251945228 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1251945513 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1251948225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251948769 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1251948908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes he's forgotten to eat < 1251949289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: alto, baritone < 1251950104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pesky suffixes < 1251950119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1251950125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't even English words in the first place IIRC < 1251950153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :music terms are italian mostly < 1251950179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(classical) < 1251950680 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009080315]" < 1251952771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251952844 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1251954841 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1251954933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1251955272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1251956321 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956322 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956322 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956322 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956323 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956323 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956323 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956323 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956324 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956324 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956324 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956325 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956325 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956325 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956326 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956326 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956326 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956326 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956327 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956327 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956327 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956327 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956327 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956328 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956328 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956328 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956328 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956328 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956347 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956347 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956347 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@67-40-212-106.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956354 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956354 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251956360 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956369 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956369 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@67-40-212-106.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956378 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956378 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956378 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956410 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.135.38.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956428 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956473 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956473 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956473 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956473 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956473 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956473 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251956626 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1251958881 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1251959075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251959444 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1251959788 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251960233 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251960262 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251960288 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1251960462 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1251960520 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251960520 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251960520 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251960520 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251960602 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251960602 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251960603 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251960603 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251960603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251960603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251960744 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1251960744 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251960744 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1251960748 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251960748 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1251960748 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1251960748 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1251960748 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251960749 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251961926 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251961926 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251961926 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251962014 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251962014 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251962015 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251962015 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251962015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251962015 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251962738 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251962738 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1251962738 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1251962738 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1251962738 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251962745 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1251962745 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251962745 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1251962749 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251963076 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009080315]" < 1251963145 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251963146 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251963146 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251963146 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251963146 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251963146 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251963147 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251963147 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251963147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251963541 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-211.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1251963541 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251963541 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1251963543 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1251963543 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1251963543 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1251963543 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1251963543 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251963545 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251964799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1251964800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1251965508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 182 hits on google for "tejped" <-- the English word would be "taped" < 1251965559 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but a few hundred other swedes does not seem to. < 1251965729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, wait you are a Swede too? < 1251965731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1251965789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nåja, det var ju inte så svårt att lista ut vad some menades... Snarare vore det svårt för någon som inte kan svenska. < 1251968899 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag tror alla utlänningarna också lyckades lista ut vad det betydde < 1251969151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread "used to be an alt, but now he's a baryon". That sounds unlikely. "Composed mostly of baryons", maybe. < 1251970381 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251973324 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-rxtnrfmenjtqqava JOIN :#esoteric < 1251974618 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251975554 0 :FireFly!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-wkwvsbezdcjvozjn JOIN :#esoteric < 1251975581 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-ggeahkbmnkhbjqqo JOIN :#esoteric < 1251976885 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976893 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976893 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976894 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976894 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976895 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976895 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976895 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976895 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976895 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976897 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976897 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976897 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976897 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976897 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976898 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976898 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1251976918 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251976918 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251976918 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977158 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977186 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Killed by douglas.freenode.net (Nick collision) < 1251977231 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-sfmrqcndvdoclkua JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977231 0 :FireFly!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-wkwvsbezdcjvozjn JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977277 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977282 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977291 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977291 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977291 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977291 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977291 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977294 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977294 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977294 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977314 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.135.38.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977314 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977314 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977314 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1251977366 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251979363 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251979560 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1251980176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251981297 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251981876 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251981879 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251982464 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251983895 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251984260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:12:31 Misread "used to be an alt, but now he's a baryon". That sounds unlikely. "Composed mostly of baryons", maybe. < 1251984270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barons are just very big baryons < 1251984278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is shot by oerjan < 1251984347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No results found for "biggest baryon ever"." < 1251984395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biggestbaryonsxxx.com < 1251985003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tee hee, Christians are pissed off because Ricky Gervais is making a movie about a world where there's no lying. In it, religion does not exist. < 1251985258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs himself some Windows 7 RC. < 1251985264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on real hardware) < 1251985620 0 :labo!n=labo@65-136-85-95.dynamic.stcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251985802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boots ubuntu to wipe partitions to install window < 1251985802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1251985804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi labo < 1251985969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could make a silly only-single-application-process version of Windows (like there was that "Starter" edition of vista with three-simultaneous-apps) and sell that under the brand name Window. < 1251985987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1251986022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's a windows 7 starter too < 1251986027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1251986028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will be < 1251986076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251986508 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1251986739 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251989546 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1251989755 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1251990511 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251990526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know of an efficient way to rm a shitload of f iles? < 1251990528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -r is painfully slow < 1251990650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ext2, forcibly unlink the dir with debugfs and let e2fsck sort it out later. You'll end up with most of the files in lost+found, I guess, but you didn't specify you wanted a *good* solution. < 1251990661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HFS+ :P < 1251990670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm removing around 1,000,000 files < 1251990672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1251990693 0 :labo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy everithing to a new FS :P < 1251990705 0 :labo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(else) < 1251990760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you happen to have a safe-for-directories unlink() syscall, I doubt you'll get it done faster than rm, discounting any solutions that involve creating a new file system. < 1251990840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm freeing about 100GB of space so I can comfortably fit Windows 7 RC x64... < 1251990852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there is a way... < 1251990855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope a 32-bit game circa 1999 will work fine with it :P < 1251990862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably, amirite?) < 1251990867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not I'll just install 32-bit XP. < 1251990868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/partition_in_question < 1251990879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good one though < 1251990880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eithger < 1251990880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And crack it since it has a 5-install activation limit. < 1251990881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either < 1251990884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That does not delete X files. < 1251990888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That deletes X+Y files. < 1251990903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unless the set of files on the partition happens to be X < 1251990996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, for the... second, I think, time since I've got this iMac, the widescreen is an issue. < 1251991007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First time was a game... second time will be a game. < 1251991007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1251991011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn games! :P < 1251991012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes... < 1251991041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll buy an adapter from whatever display port of the week this iMac used to DVI and plug it into the old, crappy 19" LCD. < 1251991042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I have non-widescreen on desktop and it is still an issue.... 1400x1050 isn't very common < 1251991055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually I run the game in question in window-mode < 1251991062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that doesn't solve the fact that it runs at, uh, 640x480 I think. < 1251991072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well window mode should work fine for that < 1251991073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I used to play it on that old 17" Compaq CRT. < 1251991083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but there's a large nostalgia factor, and windowing ruins that. < 1251991089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, black bars > desktop. < 1251991092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less distracting. < 1251991095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But neither are very good. < 1251991111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well using 640x480 will frankly look like shit on any non-CRT < 1251991113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this crappy 15" Axion CRT, but it'd need calibrating. < 1251991128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The game doesn't exactly have spectacular graphics :P < 1251991136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But indeed. < 1251991136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm < 1251991153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black boarders around 640x480 in the center of the screen? < 1251991172 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: RACIST. < 1251991180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's my current plan, but eh. < 1251991190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only will it have LCD scaling artifacts, it'll be distracting. < 1251991197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, .... < 1251991226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, hmm, it might have a configurable resolution. Not widescreen though, obviously. < 1251991231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that's sort of nostalgia-ruining. < 1251991232 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Boarders" are people who pay to "board", i.e. live in your home :P < 1251991247 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently AnMaster has a problem with black boarders. < 1251991266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the resolution is configurable - there's a screenshot here of it running at 1600x1200. < 1251991274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks upsettingly hi-def. < 1251991294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, well it was pretty clear from the context that it didn't refer to that. I certainly didn't think of that meaning of the word before you mentioned it... though I have heard it before once or twice iirc < 1251991307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Who wants to tell him you were joking? < 1251991317 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that that's the only meaning of the word "boarder", you were looking for the word "border" :P < 1251991326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, yes a simple typo < 1251991332 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES. < 1251991344 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What fun is the universe if I can't poke fun at a simple typo :P < 1251991362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I am aware of that it could possibly be interpreted as funny by some people. However personally I wouldn't classify it as a joke < 1251991381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some days I try not to be angry at AnMaster < 1251991384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today is not one of those days < 1251991389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SHUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP < 1251991420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, in fact when I first noticed I had typoed with that a there I was thinking about if you could possibly be joking about pirates or similar < 1251991426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1251991429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1251991437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they board ships don't they? < 1251991446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did seem a bit far fetched < 1251991455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's the Windows 7 in you that's making you not be unangry. < 1251991457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't make a lot of sense in the context of "racist" < 1251991476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I should install Windows 98 instead. :) < 1251991485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure the sequel would run on that! < 1251991489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SQL HUR HUR < 1251991504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um... what? I didn't get that joke... < 1251991556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean like that... right... not very funny. If you want to make a bad joke, why not attribute it to yourself... since I wouldn't have thought of that... < 1251991588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, you'd have probably thought of something even less funny and signed it with a ;P. < 1251991631 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-106-184.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1251991672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was thinking of something like "why not xp?" followed by some joke about "experience" but I couldn't think of anything good < 1251991682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still can't < 1251991686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP will be what I'll try if Windows 7 doesn't work. < 1251991713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I said 98 (which almost certainly wouldn't work on this iMac) because it was the latest Windows at the time the game was released. < 1251991745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suspect using a vm would work better, unless it is 3D < 1251991753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1251991756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1251991766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the sequel is also 3D, circa 2003. < 1251991772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what game is it? < 1251991796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_2:_The_Great_Escape. It's good. At least I think so, and that opinion may be tainted by having played it when I was a yung'un. < 1251991817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played it for N years. < 1251991825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:/] % sudo rm -rf Previous\ Systems.localized < 1251991825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password: < 1251991825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: Previous Systems.localized: Directory not empty < 1251991826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ wat < 1251991841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, .DS_Store. < 1251991847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got created while deleting, presumably. < 1251991856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD got to love OS X < 1251991862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1251991875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, .DS_Store is a rather odd wart. < 1251991896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_2:_The_Great_Escape#Voice_Cast ;; hahaha < 1251991907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They just speak gibberish over the subtitles, at least in the PC version) < 1251991910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, IDGI < 1251991928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what is so funny about that section. < 1251991931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They just speak gibberish over the subtitles, at least in the PC version) < 1251991941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem like something worth hiring a voice cast over < 1251991947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1251991950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Jack Black[citation needed] as Globox ;; really?) < 1251991956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find *that* hard to believe < 1251992004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gibberish like for example Donald Duck did in old Disney movies? Or even worse? < 1251992035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Womi knee. Eksioo geh!" is a bad transcription of what I remember hearing. < 1251992058 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251992063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth.. aspell doesn't think "movie" is a valid word... < 1251992074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Film? < 1251992083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merge those two damn dialect dictionaries. < 1251992085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that the UK word? that < 1251992092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuh < 1251992109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well same as the Swedish word then. < 1251992112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1251992116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts boot camp assistant < 1251992162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rendering bug or intended? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ratman_2.jpg < 1251992166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A flaw of Rayman 2 that I did not realise until now: Sure, so the enemies are robot pirates. WHERE ARE THE NINJAS?) < 1251992168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, missing arms and legs < 1251992186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and err neck too it seems < 1251992188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: His hair also functions as a helicopter-type spinny thing that makes him float. < 1251992198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, he uses his body as a basketball if you don't press anything for a while. < 1251992208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, er, yes, intentional. < 1251992225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well... weird super powers isn't unusual... ;P < 1251992243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you won't be surprised to know that he can form orbs of energy with his hand and throw them at things! < 1251992292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, enemies can't hit what you don't have.... < 1251992301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that sounds like innuendo... < 1251992319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some values of "innuendo" < 1251992324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. < 1251992360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rayman 2 may be the game with the hardest final battle ever... < 1251992519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1251992552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're on a weird thing that flies forward constantly, and you can turn up/down/left/right. If you bash into any of the walls, you die. If you fall into the lava, you die. If you bash into *anything*, you die. If you go up a tunnel that gets slimmer and slimmer there's an orb, which you have to pass going downwards, not going towards it. Then you get an orb on its exhaust, which you can then shoot backwards. You have to shoot it at both stilts (getting one t < 1251992553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the end boss thingy is in, at which point he falls down a bit or something. Then you can hit him a few times before he goes back up. His health bar is almost the width of the entire screen and one shot barely affects him; yours is more like a quarter of the screen. If you die, you lose some health and he regains all his. Also, all this time, he is occasionally shooting ... something at you, which tracks you and makes you die if it hits you. You have to < 1251992554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoot it or lose its trail, and this takes like 15 seconds. < 1251992565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* one twice) tha < 1251992570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got cut off. < 1251992581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the second bit but it's comprehensible without (just lost an "either") < 1251992593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stlts (getting one twice), to be specific. < 1251992680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives Windows 64GB (so that OS X has 72GB free) < 1251992838 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1251992844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1251992911 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1251992913 0 :Tobi_!n=tobias@dslb-092-072-141-179.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1251992937 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1251993028 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1251993135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing freezes when I try and resize my boot partition :-( < 1251993143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe gparted will work. < 1251993296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1251996215 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1251996394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1251996411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1251996428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I see hello in scrollback too... Hi Tobi_ (whoever you are) < 1251996449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tobi_ or not Tobi_, that's the question < 1251996453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, gah < 1251996459 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1251998173 0 :labo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1251998284 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1251999280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1251999522 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1251999534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1251999543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are new here? < 1251999547 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1251999554 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY NEW PERSON < 1251999558 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1251999581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just want to make one thing clear: this is about esoteric programming languages, not esoterica. A lot of people stray in here thinking it is about the other stuff < 1251999590 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1251999595 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1251999597 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1251999671 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I joined the brainfuck channel this afternoon, as I am intrested in brainfuck, but it was pretty silent there so I decided to come here < 1251999704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a separate channel? heh < 1251999711 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always had < 1251999717 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty ridiculous < 1251999721 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1251999729 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how is this channel not about esoterica? < 1251999733 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1251999736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep hearing this "lot of people" stuff and have still to see anybody mistaking this for the other kind of esoterica < 1251999767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I think it happend five times when I was reading the channel this summer. < 1251999768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw one once. < 1251999776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four or five < 1251999781 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1251999820 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you are all esoteric programmers? :) < 1251999827 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less < 1251999859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1251999870 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about it in a magazine so I tried brainfuck < 1251999893 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it a porn magazine? < 1251999898 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not into that kind of brainfuck. < 1251999901 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm..not really < 1251999904 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1251999928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Well, I'm pretty sure we've had a few discussions of esoterica -- but that's just our studious devotion to not being on topic. :P < 1251999944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what topic? ;P < 1251999980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Esoteric programming languages. < 1251999983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1252000027 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondered if there is any forum dedicated to esoteric programming languages < 1252000042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sketchy idea for new esolang: something based on esoterica... taroc(spelling?) cards for representing the stack or something < 1252000048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tarot* < 1252000053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1252000061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: interesting < 1252000073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the original word is something closer to taroc, IIRC < 1252000074 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give a different meaning to each card < 1252000076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1252000078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Tarot cards are not "based on esoterica", BTW. < 1252000085 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a restriction that you can only use N decks < 1252000090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "mumbo-jumbo"? < 1252000099 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the challenge is to write a program that only uses N decks of cards < 1252000100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though used in esotericism, they are primarily playing cards. < 1252000121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, mhm. Shows how little I know about that sort of stuff < 1252000147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with absurd amounts of esoteric symbolism added in, for odd historical reasons) < 1252000154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, wonder if you could still make it tc... hm < 1252000175 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not for any fixed N, no < 1252000176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you would need some other storage form in addition for tc-ness then < 1252000197 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it more like a golf challenge < 1252000210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe you could use the heap of crystal balls or something < 1252000211 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I wrote a bubblesort in 3 decks, can you do it in 2?" < 1252000234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252000240 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then possibly you could analyze the program to predict your future < 1252000246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, still need to work out some interesting semantics for it < 1252000265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, it seems reasonable that program operation should somehow be affected by phase of moon < 1252000282 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly < 1252000290 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your date of birth < 1252000292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that wear wolfs? < 1252000302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling < 1252000310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :werewolf* < 1252000319 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the currently active zodiac sign < 1252000338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, isn't that related to bad newspapers? < 1252000401 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astrology? < 1252000404 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really its fault, is it? < 1252000416 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astrology doesn't concern itself with bad newspapers < 1252000422 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad newspapers concern themselves with astrology < 1252000431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, well, I was trying to make a joke about the horoscope column found it some (many?) newspapers < 1252000664 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252000711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, wait what about making it so that the program had to select a date for which the horoscope did what it wanted? Would of course be incredibly hard to write anything in it :) < 1252000712 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252000720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could store it as zero size file < 1252000752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modification timestamp could encode the date or something < 1252000782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no, you need creation date too, and at least *nix systems doesn't store that... < 1252001163 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, that's cute < 1252001229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, do astrology care about location too? < 1252001235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does* < 1252001315 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1252001328 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only about the local time < 1252001359 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the exact position of the planets at the moment of birth < 1252001373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, in UTC? < 1252001385 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm, that's not local time. But I think local time is important too, somehow - perhaps I'm wrong) < 1252001440 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1252001443 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wp says, "The horoscope serves as a stylized map of the heavens over a specific location at a particular moment in time." < 1252001446 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :location matters < 1252001447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, but timezones are mostly political inventions... < 1252001465 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have a sample < 1252001466 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A horoscope calculated for January 1, 2000 at 12:01:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time in New York City, New York, USA (Longitude: 074W00'23" - Latitude: 40N42'51")." < 1252001517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, ok so file format is trivial: \n and encode the period the horoscope should be made for as the modification time stamp < 1252001541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1252001546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no real creation time, but there's ctime, which is almost as good. You'll just have to make sure to preserve it. < 1252001589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ctime isn't creation time indeed. However I always fail to remember what exactly it is instead < 1252001612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inode-status-change-time; though it's standardicity had some problems. It might not have been quite well-specified. < 1252001647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctime's usually updated by changes in owner/group/mode and such. < 1252001677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for idiomatic coding in this language the programmer should actually visit the location at the specified time and create the file then! < 1252001695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, most programmers wouldn't do it the idiomatic way. < 1252001770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, not very many bits in the typical timestamps, not too many different possible programs. Though maybe if you allow unlimited precision in the GPS coordinates. < 1252001810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also btw how is the conversion from date/time/location to "Avoid tall strangers. A fried is important to you. ..." work? < 1252001822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup table? < 1252001881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trade secret. < 1252001896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are many lookup tables involved, I believe. < 1252001985 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't believe in astrology; I'm a Sagittarius and we're skeptical." - Arthur C. Clarke (No idea about the origin or exactness of the quote.) < 1252002014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1252002043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Each planet has its own aspects and influences, much like the signs. How the influence is exerted upon the subject depends on which sign the planet appears in, which other planets are present and if the planet is in retrograde motion. The positions of the planets relative to one another are important, as are various angles and mathematical calculations based on all of these factors." < 1252002067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That gives you a lot of possible numbers, each of which you can probably then look up in suitable books. < 1252002124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retrograde motion? < 1252002199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Having constructed the horoscope, the astrologer can begin the task of interpreting the chart. This interpretation depends upon which branch of horoscopic astrology is being used." < 1252002203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia < 1252002207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252002276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving "backwards" w.r.t. everything else; obviously only when viewed from some particular place, in this case Earth. < 1252002286 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_retrograde_motion is the type of thing they mean. < 1252002293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the algorithm described on wikipedia reminds me of a cipher... < 1252002331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those that use a weird table and with multiple rounds < 1252002484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The apparent backwards-going is what makes life difficult for all those people who insist on placing the Earth in the center of the solar system. < 1252002504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that... sounds familiar < 1252002550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By this time each planet had been provided with from 40 to 60 epicycles to represent after a fashion its complex movement among the stars. Amazed at the difficulty of the project, Alfonso is credited with the remark that had he been present at the Creation he might have given excellent advice." quotes wikipedia on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferent_and_epicycle < 1252002558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yet astrology wouldn't care at all about a comet on collision course with earth? Surely that should end up as "you will likely have a bad day today"? < 1252002559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1252002701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of stuff on the sky they don't care about. < 1252002746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Pluto's other dwarf planet friends. < 1252002770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, pluto isn't even the largest dwarf planet iirc? < 1252002783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eris has more mass, yes. < 1252002845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth did "Eris" make be think of esr... < 1252002861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a bit further away, though, so I think it might have less of a gravitational influence. Still, at perihelion it seems to be closer than Pluto at aphelion. < 1252002898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err? closest point? and point furthest away? < 1252002906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252002917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you look them up? ;P < 1252002967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't really avoid that, since those are the terms used in the heavenly-body info-box. < 1252002979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252003275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case.. let's see, Pluto has some 1.3*10^22 kg at 6*10^9 metres, so F = G*m1*m2/r^2 means the gravitational attraction between Pluto and a rather largeish 4-kg newborn is... about 100 nano-Newtons. The same force would be caused by Earth's gravity if you put a "brick" weighting 10 µg on the baby. < 1252003318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's not about gravity, it's about "influence" by some other, more inexplicable means. < 1252003335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the non-planets just don't have that special something. < 1252003465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, maybe they are counting Eris. Wikipedia's Astrology page lists as data-sources "the astrological planets, dwarf planets, the asteroids, the stars, the lunar nodes, Arabic parts and hypothetical planets." < 1252003600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Arabic parts"? < 1252003614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what hypothetical planets? < 1252003673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arabic parts are some sort of derived points from multiple things-in-the-sky, it seems. And there are quite a lot of hypothetical planets. < 1252003682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just like real planets, except they don't, you know, exist. < 1252003704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's Lilith, for example, Earth's second moon. < 1252003719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may not have noticed it; it's quite sneaky. < 1252003747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with all the sats and debris up there now I wouldn't be surprised if they formed a second moon at some point ;P < 1252003767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one has about the same mass as the real Moon. < 1252003770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shouldn't astrology track that? After all it is a LOT closer < 1252003778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we've hauled that much stuff up there yet. < 1252003791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe it is made of that infamous dark matter? < 1252003811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "mostly invisible", but I can't quite seem to find out why. < 1252003821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly because the idea makes absolutely no sense. < 1252003843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just so dark, it seems. < 1252003853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how insane on a scale from 0 to time cube? < 1252003888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a Time Cube scholar, but pretty insane. Though I guess second-moonism isn't any stranger than flat-earthism. < 1252003942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what happened to ehird... didn't he said he would just resize some partition? that was quite a while ago... < 1252003972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some partitions man was not meant to resize. < 1252004016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah I think macs have EFID partitions or something < 1252004023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1252004026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I messed that up < 1252004033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUID partition tables, but EFI partitions < 1252004095 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252004099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about the Intel macs; the old "Apple Partition Map" mess was big enough. < 1252004161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? I have used OS 9 but I never messed with the partitions on it... 3.2 GB harddrive. more than one partition would have been pointless < 1252004169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tell me about this interesting mess < 1252004245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I had that MkLinux-booter-based Debian on my PPC mac. It's just that there's more partitions than one would think would be necessary; the partition map itself is a partition, for example. And there were some kinds of I-don't-know-how-it-works "driver partitions". < 1252004262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the partition map itself is a partition, for example" <-- sounds kind of neat... < 1252004286 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the PPC-iBook's partition table, as seen from mac-fdisk in Ubuntu, is still quite complicated. I could check it out if you're interested. < 1252004300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and the driver partition hm... I remember that you had a "update disk drivers" option or something in the disk tool thingy on old macs < 1252004317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what it did < 1252004397 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Often the first partition on a SCSI disk, following the partition map, is the driver partition that contains the actual device driver used to communicate with the disk. (There is, however, no requirement that the driver partition be the first partition on a disk.)" < 1252004419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how is that driver loaded.... I see a bootstrapping problem here... < 1252004466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you load it using the openfirmware-forth-based driver directly provided by the device, or some such trick. < 1252004473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know the details, though. < 1252004489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of device-driver-trickery was used by the Sparcs, anyway. < 1252004514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sounds plausible. boot loader on x86 uses bios to load the kernel (which usually has it's own driver later on) < 1252004585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's just even cleverer since you can put the FCode (their forth-bytecode) driver directly on ROM on the device -- it's not like it's very many bytes -- and then use that for rudimentary access. And of course the driver you can read from the disk is then the sensible higher-performance one. < 1252004619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the FCode driver's platform-independent, so the same thing would work on Sun systems and Macs. < 1252004701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess EFI has some sort of similar bytecode-based thing, actually. < 1252004779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so you would need different harddrives for sparc/ppc than traditional x86? < 1252004788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I thought it was for disk controller < 1252004804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the bit on the mobo that talks with the disk using ATA commands < 1252004810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or SCSI or whatever < 1252004868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for pci based scsi controllers or such, a forth based "basic firmware" would indeed make sense < 1252004961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The firmware stuff was used in PCI card devices in general. I'm not quite sure what the exact deal is with disk controllers, I guess their drivers are in the firmwarey parts anyway, and can be used to load the driver partition. < 1252005843 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1252005858 0 :Tobi_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252005888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is jitfunge dead or? < 1252005910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not dead which can eternal lie. < 1252005973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I am slightly hopeful that I could get something done on that front, now that I've gotten the thesis stuff out of the way. < 1252005989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nice < 1252006009 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we will see a JIT TRDS one day < 1252006139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does TRDS require that the interpreter supports t? < 1252006159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but you can't really do much with it without t :-P < 1252006209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, would mycology gracefully handle a interpreter with TRDS but without t? < 1252006230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycotrds requires t right at the start IIRC < 1252006241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1252006254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it won't infini-loop or something silly like that < 1252006275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but of course you can jump to the past and do stuff without having t < 1252006285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1252006286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if you've implemented that, t is probably one line of code < 1252006309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to make a DS9K, implement TRDS but not t :-P < 1252006349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and then show it to Mike Riley? < 1252006356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want < 1252006383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some time < 1252006417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you don't have to track IP IDs since all IPs will have the same ID < 1252006601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw would you say icc or gcc is best in general? < 1252006608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it comes to optimising < 1252006645 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I haven't used icc much and I haven't compared C/C++ compilers at all, really < 1252006667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume icc is better on intel cpus... and that is true for cfunge on my old pentium 3... but for my core 2 duo laptop... gcc is more than twice as fast < 1252006691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, gcc produced binary < 1252006713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not compile time < 1252006715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume that they're different and there's no "in general" winner :-P < 1252006774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but I wouldn't have expected such a large difference... but then it seems that for more long running programs the difference is much smaller. Possibly icc has a lot more setup code before it gets to the actual program < 1252006829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They implement somewhat different optimizations in different ways *shrug* < 1252007917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw... does course literature writers in US get paid by the word or something? Course literature in English seems to be pretty verbose, while ones in Swedish seems to be trying to pack as much knowledge into as few pages as possible instead. < 1252007972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this observation is based on a total of 6 books in math and programming, three of them in English) < 1252008003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and personally I would prefer something between those two extremes) < 1252011877 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252012274 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252012720 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252013915 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252013991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly, my partition surgery worked perfectly, first time < 1252016630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252017066 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252017491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder when http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI will change URI :P < 1252019143 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252019148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1252019205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes the moon is fuwuoowoooowooooooooo, er full < 1252019249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keys are like right next to each other. < 1252019261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of them < 1252019308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bash.org/?901460 ;; this is a bash quote approved THIS YEAR < 1252019329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone want to tell them that there's only ONE apple computer-related product you can buy with one button? < 1252019344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's their budget notebook? < 1252019344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/5jxA3.png < 1252019351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I linked that earlier < 1252019353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't get through < 1252019359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:39] ehird: surprisingly, my partition surgery worked perfectly, first time < 1252019359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:02] ehird: http://imgur.com/5jxA3.png < 1252019360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not with that URL, at least < 1252019363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf @ those times < 1252019365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, didn't get through < 1252019367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DID THAT HAPPEN < 1252019370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:39 → 22:02 < 1252019373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1252019382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the clocks just change on me or something? :P < 1252019398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I had the worst ntp lag evar < 1252019424 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first time was right, at least < 1252019425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-03 23:39:57 ( ehird) surprisingly, my partition surgery worked perfectly, first time < 1252019460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. I was pretty worried about that, incidentally, since at the end I discovered amongst the details that growing the filesystem to fit the new partition wasn't supported < 1252019464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for HFS+ < 1252019467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems to have worked < 1252019474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can install windows at my leisure < 1252019487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to sell me a crappy CRT? :-) < 1252019533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(right clicking on my disk, an entry is "duplicate". I am tempted to ask it to copy my disk to itself by clicking...) < 1252019543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, it complains that the disk is in use < 1252019565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there's the old black and white tv in the closet, it's _really_ crappy < 1252019583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it has a VGA port < 1252019588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1252019590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I kind of want colour :P < 1252019604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you _did_ ask for crappy < 1252019610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well < 1252019632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CRT I used was a second-hand Compaq V70 < 1252019659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling, a site claims its max resolution was 1280x1024; bullshit. With PowerStrip I got like ... high resolutions. < 1252019676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it was flickery as all fuck, and text was so small as to be unreadable, but I got used to it because MOAR PIXELZ. < 1252019717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"17-inch (15.67-inches viewable)" —Business Wire, July 22 1996, on that monitor < 1252019742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it refers to it as value-line < 1252019743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much sums it up < 1252019777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it displayed pixels blurrily. at 120hz no less if you used 800x600 or lower < 1252019788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:07:09 lament, do astrology care about location too? < 1252019790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was barely *any* flicker! < 1252019790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252019818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when can I expect a b nomic horoscope?! < 1252019823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ascendant and the houses in particular < 1252019839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fully expect your personal interpretation of it, too! < 1252019863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could just download astrolog like i did for agora, assuming it still exists < 1252019875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interpretations were autogenerated by it < 1252019876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you forever tainted it with that bitingly sarcastic page! < 1252019883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its aura is now unaligned; crooked. < 1252019887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252019894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, B Nomic needs a sincere eye < 1252019922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc the horoscope will inevitably be "You are what the fucking christ jesus get therapy man." < 1252020091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm fourth anniversary that would have been 1997 < 1252020098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :within my atheist period < 1252020162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why the file dates are 2002 - oh right, that's when i had to move things out of the math institute account < 1252020272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in other words, don't expect quite the same level of sarcasm from me today) < 1252020575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also btw how is the conversion from date/time/location to "Avoid tall strangers. A fried is important to you. ..." work? < 1252020583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoid tall fried strangers < 1252020601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might be grumpy after frying < 1252020625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I said it because of the top header < 1252020641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(30 June 2007: The ruleset links below have long since gone stale, but Agora still lives on at www.agoranomic.org. Oh, and since my views on divination have changed since then as well, it was only appropriate synchronicity that I did not remember what day this was until after I decided to finally follow Zefram's suggestion to make a note about the new site.)" < 1252020688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, you can buy one of Unicomp's Model M clones in black, with blank black keycaps < 1252020699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :das keyboard is instantly obsolete < 1252020739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: said _what_ because of the top header? < 1252020748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: asking for a b nomic horoscope < 1252021063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, < 1252021112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the secret lair of Dr. Evil, < 1252021219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his real-o-matic detects a fourth wall infraction. < 1252021239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://store.theonion.com/che-wearing-che-t-shirt-t-shirt-p-172.html ;; GregorR, you know what to do < 1252021330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean we want a picture of GregorR wearing the GregorR wearing the GregorR t-shirt t-shirt. < 1252021337 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252021344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking more like making a shirt of that shirt < 1252021345 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed Che wearing Che wearing Che wearing Che wearing Che ... < 1252021347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, that works too < 1252021353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: oh, infinitely would work also < 1252021365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps alternating with Che... < 1252021366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the infinitely small ches might start demanding equal pixel rights < 1252021375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: YES < 1252021392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(real) gregor wearing che wearing gregor wearing che wearing ironic hipster tshirt < 1252021395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, not that last part. < 1252021464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yawns < 1252021487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting tired at midnight is becoming irritating < 1252021500 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i might buy that che shirt :( < 1252021508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I'll try and eke an hour or two more out of the day to mess up the schedule to make it more fun < 1252021513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that's so unhappy? :( < 1252021519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They're just like real planets, except they don't, you know, exist. < 1252021528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astrolog supported quite a few of them iirc < 1252021529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXISTENCE IS OPTIONAL < 1252021534 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "YOU ARE DUMB" one, hehe < 1252021552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with options < 1252021594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: http://store.theonion.com/good-day-to-go-sailing,-if-youre-a-dick-new-p-1025.html is far more classy than "YOU ARE DUBM"! < 1252021624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAFARI HISTORY SEARCH WISHLIST < 1252021636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Don't freeze for seconds every time I type a character. < 1252021643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(end of file) < 1252021874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, with all the sats and debris up there now I wouldn't be surprised if they formed a second moon at some point ;P < 1252021937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the low orbit ones are mostly within the roche limit, but the geostationary orbit at 36000 km might... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit < 1252022017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether it's possible to hack up a notebook with a custom keyboard < 1252022184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`!haskell 20000/pi < 1252022185 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1252022191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 20000/pi < 1252022209 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6366.197723675814 < 1252022312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs windows 7 < 1252022351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252022684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252023349 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252023548 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252023551 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252023565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fop dop mop < 1252023628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hop top lop < 1252023632 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I stop myself from asking stupid questions? < 1252023635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1252023655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn on your deduction circuits < 1252023657 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sew your mouth shut. < 1252023664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also turn off any lingering ADHD transistors that may be firing < 1252023697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't. you just rise to a higher level where the questions are so clever other people don't realize they are stupid. < 1252023708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing me I'm going to install this and the game won't be compatibl < 1252023709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1252023714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I can trivially put XP on instead < 1252023722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so most of the work won't have been wasted if that's the cas < 1252023723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1252023734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the danger here is not to end up in time cube land, it's nearly the same direction < 1252023750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-not < 1252023753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(right now i'm running a windows program with wine remastering a windows 7 RC x64 install CD using my already-burned copy that needs a 64-bit EFI, which I don't have) < 1252023800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's just got to be a yo dawg in there somewhere < 1252023808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like an oh gawd < 1252024209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My homework: http://codepad.org/F8rBjCL3 < 1252024313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Sgeo's world, we are all intimately interested in the trivial C++ he was told to write < 1252024323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah yeah pot kettle :)) < 1252024403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: This image contains filenames and/or directory names that are < 1252024404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NOT COMPATIBLE with Windows NT 3.51. If compatibility with < 1252024404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Windows NT 3.51 is required, use the -nt switch rather than < 1252024404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the -n switch. < 1252024407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes!!!111 < 1252024769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION brunz < 1252025415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define brun < 1252025416 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Bruno, Brun, or Braun (died 2 February 880) was the Duke of Saxony from 866 to his death. He was the elder son of Liudolf, progenitor of the ... \ [23]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brun_(Saxony) \ * Bruun is a family name of Nordic origin. The meaning is brown (brun in Danish, Swedish and Norwegian). ... < 1252025421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burn < 1252025421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252025438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yawns a lot < 1252025448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sir Yawnsalot < 1252025457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... < 1252025461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIR YAWNSABUTT < 1252025462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahdahsdskgdk;jlfl; < 1252025463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' q < 1252025477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that settles it, you are overly tired < 1252025553 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252025562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :) < 1252025564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1252025569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tired, yes, but not overly < 1252025574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1252025578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have no opinion either way < 1252025588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that joke? don't be ridiculous. < 1252025588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wanted to preempt any questions :P < 1252025621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preempted before prompted < 1252025624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is to be noted that most of the time, only my externalities are ever tired; internally I'm still comprehending properly but, you know, my fingers just type "yawnsabutt". < 1252025637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that said, buttman, he has a cape and a butt,. < 1252025690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while you are dreaming, it's all making sense too < 1252025701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessir < 1252025721 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In GameBoy codes, is it a good idea to make the background pattern tile $9C instead of tile $00, that's what I use for the clear-screen subroutine, it uses $9C (can you figure out why without looking at the code?) < 1252025739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have already answered < 1252025750 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not asking you specifically. < 1252025753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252025757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this amuses me: http://blog.wolfram.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/manipulate2.swf < 1252025843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs windows 7 rc... again < 1252025865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252025876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing some GameBoy programs, maybe I can also make a brainfuck interpreter on GameBoy (I could make it compiled into Gameboy codes, make each brainfuck command []+-<>,. compiled into a RST command) < 1252025905 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other esolangs would be a bit harder though, but some of them can probably be done < 1252026192 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ can become 34 - can become 35 < can become 2B > can become 23 . can become C7 , can become E7 < 1252026206 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252026281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that a mediocre victory beats no victory, puts XP cd in < 1252026301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's not a pyrrhic one < 1252026420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252026731 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does x86 not have $00 is NOP but GameBoy does? < 1252026822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you actually _want_ $00 to be NOP? it would mean if you accidentally jumped into zero-initialized memory you would just zip past it, perhaps into some real code... < 1252026849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better to make it an exception of some kind... < 1252026880 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252026898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that i know what $00 actually does on x86 or anywhere else) < 1252027181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (KH)(A)(:*)(:*)::**^^(N!)**S < 1252027181 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! < 1252027372 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X86 has 00 00 be one of: ADD [BX+SI],AL (16 bit addressing), or ADD [EAX], AL (32 bit addressing). X64 64-bit mode has it ADD [RAX], AL < 1252027481 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exactly it is is affected by address size but not bitness (since it happens to be byte-sized operation involving memory access). < 1252027514 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, 00 00 00 00 in MIPS is a NOP. < 1252027898 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X86 primary NOP is $90, which actually is instruction to swap value of AX/EAX with AX/EAX. < 1252028053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I want $00 to be NOP is having to do with a code I wrote for copying a string to the display, the code is simplified when $00 is NOP < 1252028072 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now, see if you can figure out why I want $9C to be the background. (Think of it) < 1252028117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reply anyways, I will read the logs later" < 1252031145 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-107-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252031389 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252031411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows installed, now I just have to driver it up < 1252031415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then install 5 billion updates < 1252031490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya! < 1252031496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252031509 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252031896 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252032185 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252032451 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252032821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspect the flu is brewing within him < 1252032835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice having known you all < 1252032840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suspects < 1252032862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oink oink oink < 1252032866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restart time < 1252032881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252032911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks, living this once was more than enough... < 1252033245 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252033774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252035251 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252036261 0 :ehird!i=5b6948c3@gateway/web/freenode/x-wogjwcprcgzvhtab JOIN :#esoteric < 1252036276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi@ < 1252036277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1252036278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from windows < 1252036285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves < 1252036286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's...surprisingly snappy < 1252036296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the boot camp drivers are really good! < 1252036327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if virus scanners are even worth bothering with, if you use a decent browser and don't do stupid stuff... < 1252036337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that is probably being too optimistic about security flaws in windows < 1252036366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, this is actually quite pleasant. chrome is nice < 1252036411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I swear this is snappier than Safari/OS X, which makes me sad. < 1252036459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is dangerously close to liking windows here... < 1252036577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's great so long as you don't try to use it for anything < 1252036580 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a dual-boot myself < 1252036595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: true; I know Windows is always snappy to start with < 1252036604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real issue is that Windows bogs down far faster than other OSes < 1252036606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is the first time it's actually flown < 1252036763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe someone should scientifically investigate how windows bogs down and write a daemon that stops whatever it is. :P < 1252036784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Windows always works the same for games, I find, so that's alright. < 1252036816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I *still* can't figure out how anyone could like the fisher price Luna interface over classic. < 1252036829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, cleartype is still unreadable and ugly. < 1252036850 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mostly it's daemons I think < 1252036862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252036869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "Luna" interface < 1252036871 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252036881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default blue interface < 1252036894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the olive isn't even an interface as opposed to a pukefest < 1252036899 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with that < 1252036900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the silver is half-passable < 1252036909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I'm not a big fan of classic < 1252036909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but similar enough to classic that you might as well save the system resources < 1252036918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1252036922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted pretty, I'd reboot into OS X < 1252036926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252036935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although windows 7 looks alright < 1252036949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oxygen hits a nice balance... functional, but not blocky < 1252036957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and quick launch + the taskbar is still superior to the dock. < 1252036972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though the Windows 7 somethingdockbarthing is even more superior.) < 1252036982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has yet to try 7 < 1252037015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I tried it in a VM (and so lacked a bunch of good features that require a halfway decent GPU) and it was good. < 1252037027 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if the Linux developers could get themselves organized enough for something like the somethingdockbarthing < 1252037032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was better than every other Windows before it, which is a feat. < 1252037041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Misnomer - "the linux developers" < 1252037051 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: exactly < 1252037057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone builds it for, say, Gnome, then you could propose for Gnome to use it by default. < 1252037067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is the application writers < 1252037074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs application support < 1252037076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest I'd use Windows 7 fulltime if I didn't know programming for it would be a bitch < 1252037091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: try ubuntu sometime, y'know? Linux doesn't suck any more < 1252037098 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's what I'm doing < 1252037102 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, +k < 1252037103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right then < 1252037112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: There's your problem :P < 1252037114 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252037124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders whether Windows Live Messenger is hideously bloated enough to explode on his system. < 1252037138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Pidgin is le crappy on Windows, and Miranda IM is fiddly to set up. < 1252037149 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chatzilla works pretty well < 1252037157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chatzilla does not talk to MSN, and bitlbee sucks. < 1252037164 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean MSN < 1252037170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For IRC I'll probably use mIRC or something. < 1252037179 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders at the mention of mIRC < 1252037198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, don't knock mIRC. The scripting ... thing is an abomination, but it's a sturdy little... thing. < 1252037199 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... what's with your version string? < 1252037211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freenode's fucked up webchat thing < 1252037220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use mibbit, but they blocked it because FREENODE IS RUN BY RETARDED MONKIES. < 1252037220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CZ has JavaScript; though I've never actually tried to use it < 1252037247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, Chrome is unreasonably responsive < 1252037256 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you are on Mozilla, AppleWebKit, "KHTML, like Gecko", Chrome, and Safari < 1252037257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I've just upgraded my internet connection < 1252037268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: uh, that's what User-Agents are like < 1252037275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all browsers do that < 1252037285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but not all at once < 1252037291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: nope < 1252037299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE is also Mozilla "compatible", for instance < 1252037303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because of version sniffing < 1252037317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mozilla" is sniffed for "not IE", so it goes in < 1252037323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AppleWebKit is, well, WebKit < 1252037336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"KHTML, like Gecko" is KHTML and getting Gecko-specific stuff since it'll probably work < 1252037339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome is because I'm using chrome < 1252037346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Safari is because Chrome uses WebKit, like Safari < 1252037350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus the sniffers are satiated < 1252037351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1252037398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, my disk is F:! < 1252037419 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1252037420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the EFI partition thing is C:, some empty space would be D: but isn't because it's empty, < 1252037423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X is E: < 1252037425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is F: < 1252037430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there's empty space that would be G: < 1252037461 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is happy with Windows not having access to the ext partition < 1252037471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it hasn't mounted OS X < 1252037476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just assigned it a drive letter in the installr < 1252037476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installer < 1252037481 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1252037484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it would figure out how to talk to that partition later :-P < 1252037488 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an IFS module for it? < 1252037497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Boot Camp 3 with Snow Leopard has that or something < 1252037520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, it may not be a great idea - Windows can't do Unix permissions and itself pretty insecure < 1252037525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirc looks... worrying bloated < 1252037536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*worryingly < 1252037759 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252037764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252037767 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1252037827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1252037838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1252037862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pon < 1252037866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1252037870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay < 1252037872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nice linespacing < 1252037875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now can I change this font < 1252037877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate terminal :P < 1252037881 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're dropping the last character off every sentenc < 1252037900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is a known proble < 1252037910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1252037914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: am I? < 1252037934 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think s < 1252037941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i checked the logs. < 1252037943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not < 1252037950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weir < 1252037952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, foiled agai < 1252037955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm this is fixedsys, not terminal < 1252037957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: stoppit. < 1252037963 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1252037990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, a reason to hate windows: no, Arial is not an acceptable font to ship in place of something like Helvetica < 1252037993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:| < 1252038000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we would have got away with it if not for those meddling log < 1252038086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size 9 courier new seems acceptable when not antialiased < 1252038102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads windows live messenger against his better judgement < 1252038120 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't! < 1252038124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you really need all that stuff while on Windows? < 1252038125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: why not? < 1252038133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it on the insistance of a friend. It didn't work < 1252038134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like you are planning extended trips, are you? < 1252038141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: considering I'm booted into it, it'd be nice to use it < 1252038146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I am the epitome of laziness < 1252038168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is more lazy than ehird! < 1252038169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, clicking things on windows goes faster. my lazy organ has a vested interest in keeping me here. < 1252038173 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which... shit... homework] < 1252038185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: weeeeeeeeeell? < 1252038191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is this all an attempt to get some game working? < 1252038192 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because windows live messenger is evil :( < 1252038203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: the protocol or the client? < 1252038214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that is the original intent of this escapade, yes. < 1252038220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1252038224 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the client is what I was referring to < 1252038244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's it evil? i mean it sucks yeah < 1252038246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know _that_ < 1252038253 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always "install a virus scanner! look at my advertisements! look at msn today! get a webcam!" :( < 1252038260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the ads right, point taken < 1252038261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use instead, anyhoo < 1252038266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm out of the loop with windows... thingies < 1252038275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I ended up renaming the executable, since its starting up was causing me pain and misery < 1252038277 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm too lazy not to use it :D < 1252038279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I was in this circle miranda IM was the thing, and FUCK is that client a FUCKING BITCH to install < 1252038283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay not install < 1252038284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1252038287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get it halfway usable < 1252038288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1252038292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hated Miranda IM < 1252038292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requires at least an hour of effort < 1252038299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you had it working, coo, coo, great < 1252038308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just spend 94837593457 hours on an underfeatured client < 1252038311 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a program called apatch that will remove the advertisements from it, and possibly the virus scanner requirement < 1252038311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BET YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF < 1252038319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who remembers msn plus! < 1252038331 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have a virus scanner, you're quite limited in file transfers :/ < 1252038332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember using some tool that did stuff with AIM < 1252038335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, grr, mIRC's inconsistent copying behaviour < 1252038357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: holy crap chrome is fast < 1252038357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was testing something that was a bunch of insults based on a s/n < 1252038364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it opens up as soon as i leave go of the icon < 1252038367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sending it to myself, then my friend's sister IMed me < 1252038371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every page so far has loaded as soon as i release my click < 1252038372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dayum < 1252038382 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2 is the number of times I raped your sister" was sent to her, iirc < 1252038389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: xD < 1252038419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew, chatzilla :( < 1252038427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, use Silverex < 1252038444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtk is conspicuously non-native. also xchat kind of sucks. < 1252038453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1252038457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with gtk-wimp it'd be more native i guess < 1252038478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really feel like supporting the xchat team's money-grabbing, evil windows binary payment scheme though, by using their product < 1252038492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, GTK-Wimp looks hot < 1252038521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what gimp on windows uses and stuff. < 1252038526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like, uhh, windows. < 1252038538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: does live messenger uninstall without sacrificing babies? < 1252038548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so my lazy organ is directing me to the install button. < 1252038574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, deleting msnmsgr.exe or renaming it is enough to prevent the evil from starting up < 1252038589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it in add/remove? < 1252038590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, that's typically true of viruses too, if you find all the places they're hidden < 1252038595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure, haven't checked < 1252038600 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uninstalls fine < 1252038602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome complaint: checkboxes and the arrows on scrollbars don't show up when using Classic. < 1252038609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former being far more major than the latter. < 1252038645 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't serious with the "dont!" thing really, it's almost usable these days < 1252038648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252038654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it use a lot of system resources? < 1252038659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm cherishing this snappiness < 1252038667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an aside, it sure was nice to have bootcamp install every driver for me < 1252038685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just clicked next and sat there on my ass for five minutes while it reeled off a list of drivers it was installing, then ping! < 1252038726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently i'm on service pack 2 < 1252038732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it be trying to upgrade me to 3... < 1252038753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's set to download updates at 3am < 1252038762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes that to download em for me and let me choose when to install < 1252038778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: "installing microsoft choice guard" < 1252038791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does not sound like a thing that i want on my disk. < 1252038799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Microsoft, I do not want to use bing or MSN < 1252038800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you < 1252038812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD < 1252038816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT FORCES CLEARTYPE < 1252038818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY EYEEEEEEEES :P < 1252038834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it doesn't look to bad with segoe ui, still. < 1252038847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the dancing messenger people icon < 1252038850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't that in, like, msn 5 < 1252038860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember using msn 5! < 1252038863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it SUCKED. < 1252038887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, okay < 1252038888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those adverts < 1252038889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this shit < 1252038890 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft choice guard sounds about as honest as trusted computing < 1252038892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uninstalling now < 1252038898 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://apatch.org/ < 1252038904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the window chrome looks like vista < 1252038906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fuck that shit. < 1252038931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OBLITERATE IT ALL! ALL OF IT! ALL!" < 1252038960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.marcocantu.com/blog/microsoft_choice_guard.html < 1252038980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil. < 1252039001 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Real Player? < 1252039004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft will truly never get it, will they < 1252039047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, first order of the day: replace mIRC < 1252039056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, apparently, it could end up fighting malware, or end up fighting anti-viruses? < 1252039064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maybe* silverex. < 1252039099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does hydrairc suck or not? it looks like it sucks but you can never tell with windows. < 1252039128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey wait < 1252039132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limechat is available for windows < 1252039160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although apparently only in japanese >_< < 1252039175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs silverex < 1252039186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Chat 2 no longer uses GTK+ Runtime EnvironmentGTK+ libraries are included in installer. You may use system's GTK+ runtime, thoughdeselect GTK+ durint X-Chat install. < 1252039190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs a system-wide gtk < 1252039194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, you know, fuck such things. < 1252039209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also god damn, why hasn't anyone told me how amazing chrome is? < 1252039319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1252039324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to install separate gtk < 1252039377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uninstalls mirc < 1252039380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252039624 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252039629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unsurprising < 1252039636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the MS-Windows theme doesn't actually use native widgets. < 1252039644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, menus don't fade in. < 1252039650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is arguably an improvement :P < 1252039757 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they supposed to < 1252039764 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be something I disable :) < 1252039770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I disabled that now :P < 1252039785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not menu shadows though. < 1252039789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like menu shadows. < 1252039857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, this'll do. < 1252039889 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Slide open combo boxes" is the worst one though. < 1252039889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1252039895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you disable this thingy < 1252039896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1252039897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1252039902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where minimising goes to the tray < 1252039903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in xchat < 1252040000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap, the volume buttons work and display a fascicile of the volume control HUD thing on os x :) < 1252040004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uglie rtho < 1252040006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uglier tho < 1252040041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, current task: get myself an IM client < 1252040106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252040142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess pidgin might be acceptable on windows these days... < 1252040150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth a try < 1252040228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: is it true that windows really does not have global spellchecking? < 1252040254 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252040264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'm hating it a bit now < 1252040276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i have to quit this because it's using gtk while gtk is installing because of pidgin SHOCK HORROR -> < 1252040279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252040282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-F doesn't work in xchat < 1252040283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu < 1252040289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252040438 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252040467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of satisfied with this, I guses < 1252040468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess < 1252040526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally - < 1252040532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rearrange items on your hard disk to make programs run faster" < 1252040542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to fix up a website that I strongly disagree with < 1252040543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best way to say "Defragment disk" ever, or best way to say "defragment disk" ever? < 1252040550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use Java for pretty buttons! < 1252040550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: define fix up, define this website < 1252040566 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stop them using Java to display fancy buttons < 1252040568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theprophecies.com < 1252040576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAGE < 1252040578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Chat can't < 1252040579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And get rid of that useless page with Next-> < 1252040580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open links < 1252040581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one click < 1252040594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you perhaps expecting better of kooks? < 1252040709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm just so opposed to the horror, I feel compelled to do something < 1252040722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: do you fathom at all why clicking the "updates! installlllll meeeeeeeeeee" icon makes it disappear then bother me soon after with no change? < 1252040722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be easy to fix it up, just a little, and email the pages to the webmaster < 1252040735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: dude, these people are clinically delusional and insane < 1252040739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ignore them < 1252040814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this considered attempting to convert me? Because she said she wouldn't < 1252040815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/zkp5rajablwpfxdwm8cqg < 1252040818 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no idea < 1252040864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: dude, stop talking to these people < 1252040883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as pointless as trying to reason with a mental inpatient except they're socially acceptable, thus bolstering their delusions < 1252040892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to try to debate her < 1252040893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may find more productive conversation in avenues such as "a brick wall" < 1252040908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there is a fundamental gap in the religious mind between people and the unsaved < 1252040923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is unlikely you will get anywhere without them first converting you unless they think it'll help convert you < 1252040924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is there a reason why you don't believe in God? (I am not going to judge you or try to convert you I am just very interested in people and what they believe and why they believe it. After all everyone has faith in something)" < 1252040932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disclaimer: by religious i mean fanatical here < 1252040955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: believe that if you want /shrug < 1252040988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs windows update as a stopgap < 1252041109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know, I'm the one who started the conversation. I asked her what she does at church < 1252041139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so you know, you're fairly obviously trying to twist what I say in the direction you want it to go < 1252041200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what direction do I want it to go? I'm not [consiously] trying to twist anything, I think < 1252041284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'she won't try and convert you, she'll respect whatever you say' etc < 1252041288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------------------------- < 1252041288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Service Pack 3 Setup Error < 1252041288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------------------------- < 1252041288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is not enough disk space on F:\WINDOWS\$NtServicePackUninstall$ to install Service Pack 3. Setup requires a minimum of 4 additional megabytes of free space or if you also want to archive the files for uninstallation, Setup requires 4 additional megabytes of free space. Free additional space on your hard disk and then try again. < 1252041289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------------------------- < 1252041291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1252041293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------------------------- < 1252041295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1252041297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the partition is 64gig < 1252041317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w 58g free < 1252041472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Galactic size partitions, now!" < 1252041473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252041486 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange. < 1252041867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs other updates first < 1252041878 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"." < 1252041930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Download size (total): 34.9 MB < 1252041930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Estimated time at your connection speed: 1 hour 0 minutes" < 1252041939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo broadband? :P < 1252042366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I think this conversation is starting to take a turn towards conversion talk. If you're ok with that, I'm ok with it. If you're not ok with it, feel free to ignore the rest of this email, and we'll change the subject." < 1252042376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a good way to begin this email? < 1252042588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what you're doing Sgeo? < 1252042590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking stupid questions. < 1252043145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252044403 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252044992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that disk space thing was an efi-relate issue. < 1252044993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1252044994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed. < 1252045253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252045695 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252045719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fo2b2 < 1252047295 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252047477 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he left before i could ask him if she's hot < 1252047676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1252048138 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-cabpylqfajnkblot JOIN :#esoteric < 1252048246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252048350 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252049715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i guess i have to install emacs if i want a decent haskell editor on win32 :) < 1252049793 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /ban ehird < 1252049796 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1252049801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally man. < 1252049901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows, emacs... nazism... < 1252049909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rape... < 1252049913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gay marriage... < 1252051199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252051200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252051327 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252052301 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252052326 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is bored waiting for something to compile ... < 1252052484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider flying. < 1252052568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what esolangs do you prefer anyways? < 1252052608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the traditionals: underload. unlambda. weirder: uhh, every single oklopol language < 1252052615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, redivider is sorta fun too. < 1252052633 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the deal with Unlambda anyways? < 1252052648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, paintfuck is fun too < 1252052651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: whadyamean < 1252052700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's nothing I hate more than a hypocrite, and I'm currently running emacs on windows so feel free to stab me. < 1252052739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the windows is relatively old... though that wasn't by choice < 1252052748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost enough to make a man believe in synchronicity < 1252052760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole synchronicity. < 1252052945 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatively old? what version? < 1252052961 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, XP can be considered relatively old although I find that ludicrous) < 1252052966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP < 1252052973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2002 is plain old, but it's SP3 < 1252052975 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not so old < 1252052977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just relatively old < 1252052981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SP3 was just this year or so, right? < 1252052985 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even SP2 was 2004 :-P < 1252052988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1252052999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Vista was a major reworking and 7 was a further refinement < 1252053004 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I still use much much older software < 1252053006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think old is solely time-based < 1252053019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: well, I installed this to use some old software < 1252053021 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, Vista regressed in a lot of ways < 1252053023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's a game, so that doesn't count < 1252053030 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does < 1252053030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes, but it's still change < 1252053047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: not really, because games don't get updates that make them "work better" < 1252053050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond initial bug fixes < 1252053058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no "made the plot less obtuse at this point" < 1252053068 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the game :-) < 1252053080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess for commercial stuff, probably not :-> < 1252053090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true :P < 1252053116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but damn, you windows guys are lucky for having a polished Chrome < 1252053125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridiculously polished < 1252053135 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1252053139 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs pretty well < 1252053143 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster than Firefox < 1252053156 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster than firefox ON WINDOWS! < 1252053168 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've improved it a lot for other OSes lately, though < 1252053171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like 2-3x faster than safari/osx in realtime, and feels like 5x faster than safari/osx subjectively < 1252053192 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari and Chrome both use Webkit, I think < 1252053201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252053213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's the javascript engine, the drawing code, ... < 1252053218 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, V8 (or whatever) is also a lot faster (x86, ARM) although Safari always bragged about speed < 1252053236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, browsers don't just render a page and draw it all in the same way < 1252053243 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to be completely honest, I think they used MSVC, which believe it or not may actually be better than GCC in some optimizations (don't ask me why!!!) < 1252053277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love GCC to death, so it kinda annoys me that MSVC somehow does something better, and I personally refuse to use it (too bloated, annoying, non-compliant, etc.) < 1252053280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it makes a difference at such a high level < 1252053287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But gcc is kind of... crap < 1252053296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's free and supports a lot, that's all it has going for it < 1252053296 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not crap, just weird, hard to maintain, etc. < 1252053310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad code, not very good optimisations, compiler itself is slow, etc. < 1252053313 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, MSVC only targets x86 (and maybe ARM?), so it's probably easier to work on < 1252053317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's gpl3. < 1252053320 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler is very slow < 1252053322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm/clang = <3 < 1252053325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 4.2.1 and newer are v3 < 1252053335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple are moving to llvm/clang totally for future os x < 1252053344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the bundled apps in snow leopard are compiled with clang, IIRC < 1252053351 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? huh < 1252053358 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew they employed the Clang dude < 1252053363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a pretty major leap from "experimental, might work" to "hey! let's compile the apps in our large-market commercial OS with it" < 1252053369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: LLVM is pretty much an Apple project < 1252053378 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, FreeBSD 8 also imported Clang into their CVS tree < 1252053390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :om nom nom nom < 1252053393 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started out separate from them, though, they just pay the guys to keep working on it < 1252053407 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, GCC is damn slow, very annoying, but oh well ... what can ya do? < 1252053429 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWatcom is faster but slightly worse optimizations < 1252053436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even "old" GCC 3.4.4 is twice as fast < 1252053473 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to say some of that is all the constant garbage collection, but I think that's less of an issue < 1252053474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, apple software update, I do not want to install itunes or quicktime for windows because they are SHIT on windows < 1252053480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like that driver update, however < 1252053486 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70 MB updates every freakin' time, so annoying ... < 1252053490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please do not tick both of them at once. It's sleazy. < 1252053494 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252053512 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, didn't Chrome just pioneer some ultra-good update compression diff thingy? (better than bzdiff or whatever) < 1252053523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for binaries only, iirc < 1252053525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use it for updates < 1252053528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth < 1252053546 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as you know, Chrome auto-updates on the fly all the time < 1252053559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? < 1252053565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool. also creepy. < 1252053567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also cool. < 1252053580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why he can't seem to put Windows into inverse letterbox mode < 1252053589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4:3 res on 16:10 display; black bars at either side) < 1252053600 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a way :-) < 1252053601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I get the equivalent of the (stretched) variant of the resolutions from OS X) < 1252053611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: it probably involves downloading some crappy shareware or something < 1252053621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly easier to buy a 4:3 monitor. < 1252053822 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I meant, "Unlambda probably requires somebody who knows what the hell lambda calculus is, eh?" < 1252053912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean somebody not retarded? < 1252053914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops disregard that < 1252053922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252053964 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you gotta admit it looks tough < 1252053970 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, so did Befunge until recently :-) < 1252053994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :```sk`````sk (not exactly clear cut, IMHO) < 1252053995 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1252054024 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, one guy wrote an Unlambda interpreter in sed (!) < 1252054162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I see your drivers are being updated! FOUND NEW HARDWARE. FOUND NEW HARDWARE. FOUND NEW FUCKING HARDWARE, DAMMIT! PAY ATTENTION TO ME! < 1252054174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank god I have the sound muted, at least. < 1252054260 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you used Vista before? < 1252054275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: not that i know of, but I'm fairly familiar with it despite that. < 1252054282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1252054302 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252054330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252054351 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suspect you will hate it < 1252054355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more annoying < 1252054367 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although you could technically turn off UAC) < 1252054393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I toyed around with Windows 7 RC for a bit (I was going to try Windows 7 RC x64 first, but had issues with the 64-bit part; so I fell back to XP) < 1252054398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UAC is fine, really < 1252054402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was significantly worse in vista < 1252054421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically the same as e.g. ubuntu's administrative privileges dialog, from what I can tell < 1252054431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, restart time! < 1252054433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252054543 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252054546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear bluetooth thingy < 1252054551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove bluetooth icon means do that < 1252054554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't sit around there. < 1252054612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1252054615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disappear :| < 1252054663 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I guess it's (semi-)moot how well / badly Vista behaves now that Win7 is out ... but then again, there are a lot of pre-existing copies, and not everyone will upgrade (e.g. me) < 1252054685 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't upgrade from XP anyways, gotta clean install < 1252054710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it disappeared < 1252054711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy day < 1252054717 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they nickel-and-dime us to death again with various restrictions depending on version purchased (e.g. no XP mode for home users) < 1252054748 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear that 64-bit Windows works fine assuming you have suitable drivers < 1252054831 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vista has a different driver model, and some computers don't have XP drivers (I think) < 1252054852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xp mode is kind of useless though < 1252054856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since... everything works with vista < 1252054862 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ... hell no < 1252054869 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of stuff still doesn't work with Vista < 1252054878 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't as big a fan of Windows as you think < 1252054889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, the circa 1990 windows-shipped utilities you use every day to calculate 2+2 probably don't. < 1252054892 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a lot of MS software initially didn't work on Vista !! < 1252054919 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS finally rewrote Calc for Win7 (it'd been more-or-less unmodified for a billion years) < 1252054953 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as for Freecell in Vista, finally got overhauled (apparently the same as the Win32s version from before 1995 or so) < 1252054988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1990 probably had a lot of good software although 386s and 486s were the best out at the time < 1252055000 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win 3.0 came out in 1990 (heh) < 1252055001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using windows, w-w-w-w-indows 386 < 1252055007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all my applications are running at once < 1252055032 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using Win NT 5.1 < 1252055045 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win NT 3.1 was from 1993 or so (I think) < 1252055051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have seen that video right?) < 1252055052 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.0 was from 1996 < 1252055057 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252055066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4915875929930836239 < 1252055073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is an official microsoft promotional video < 1252055107 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen the MS-DOS 5 video? :-) < 1252055129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so. also ballmer yelling to advertise windows < 1252055132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, this takes the cake < 1252055162 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way, MS-DOS 5 was extremely cheesy < 1252055174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: this isn't just _cheesy_, no no < 1252055175 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a freakin' (white) rap video 8) < 1252055182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this *warps reality* < 1252055209 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfpYrem94q0 < 1252055223 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 mins?? wow, long... < 1252055227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's worth it < 1252055242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a clipped version of the last, crack-headed 7 minutes, but that doesn't let you lure you in with some semblance of sanity < 1252055345 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1252055355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cassettes? omg ... :-)) < 1252055431 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows/386 must be 2.1/386 (I guess??) < 1252055444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1252055450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it overlaps windows < 1252055452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll see < 1252055483 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win 3.0 (1990) could still run on an 8088 / CGA < 1252055492 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1 required a 286, and 3.11 (WfW) required a 386 < 1252055521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used 3.11, but it wasn't for Workgroups. < 1252055614 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was obviously before MS stopped working on OS/2 < 1252055630 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm guessing this is Win2.1 < 1252055641 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(blind guess, never used that version) < 1252055705 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I guess this is the lame part (she's singing) < 1252055711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of it's lame! < 1252055718 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think the MS-DOS 5 one is much lamer < 1252055722 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch it! :-) < 1252055740 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell did it zoom to her face??? < 1252055750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like he's watching a bad porno) < 1252055763 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, she changed clothes < 1252055772 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very 80s < 1252055801 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy synth < 1252055860 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are they dressed like barber shop quartets?? < 1252055927 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumbs up < 1252055935 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's what she did) < 1252055963 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, sorry, the MS-DOS 5 one is much lamer/funnier < 1252056005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're crazy :P < 1252056085 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, you've seen it AND disagree? < 1252056093 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause if you haven't seen it ... < 1252056099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've seen it < 1252056112 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gimme five (gimme five)" < 1252056129 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :him rapping with the backup singers < 1252056147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1252056223 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, you don't have to watch it again just on my account, but it was definitely funny < 1252056313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ridiculous how choppy windows get if you move them < 1252056323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'mon, microsoft, it's like 2001 when you did this shit < 1252056331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have buffering! < 1252056506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees a lot about using putty as a cygwin shell, but not as a gnuwin32/whatever shell... < 1252056545 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I've only ever used PuTTy for telnet (Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup) < 1252056568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like I said, WinNT is much older than 2001, so lots of it are left over from before, so it's not always so hugely modern < 1252056573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i anticipate myself itchin' for some command line action, and cmd.exe, well, sucks. < 1252056589 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the lite/free version of 4NT (I forget its name) < 1252056605 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or obviously install Cygwin (Bash) < 1252056618 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin supports other shells too < 1252056619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm a unix kind of guy! < 1252056621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo < 1252056624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin's ports are non-native < 1252056629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, it isn't so much the shell < 1252056630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the terminal < 1252056633 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're native, just slow due to API emulation < 1252056640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i.e., not native < 1252056642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no < 1252056652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a definite disrepancy between cygwin world and windows worl < 1252056652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1252056658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin has X11-based terminals, anyway, but eh < 1252056660 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then try MSYS < 1252056673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msys's terminal is just cmd.exe, iirc < 1252056688 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, never tried it, but they claim it can run "configure", which is no small feat < 1252056701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you fail to differentiate "terminal" and "shell" < 1252056710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no it's not; configure has 50000000 lines of crap to deal with rubbish shells < 1252056786 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, they avoid a lot of specific stuff if they can < 1252056832 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, it could be a lot more DOS friendly, and I'm not even sure it would work as is (well, it definitely won't, but that's due to a pressing bug, there are probably loads of other issues too for "pure" DOS) < 1252056852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs mingw/msys as a first stage < 1252056867 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still say Cygwin would be good enough for your needs, esp. if you're such a *nix nerd < 1252056871 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that slow, believe me < 1252056874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used cygwin before < 1252056881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not dismissing it based on anecdote < 1252056890 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just to tie in with the configure subject, they claim Autoconf 2.64 is 30% faster on Cygwin now < 1252056896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the problem with unxutils? < 1252056898 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, you're smart, I see that :-) < 1252056904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gnu utils, running natively on windows, compiled with mingw < 1252056913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why i'd choose cygwin over that < 1252056921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the larger selection of packages, which doesn't matter when I just want a shell and some tools < 1252056931 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause Cygwin probably runs better, more fully-featured < 1252056940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unxutils are the full things < 1252056947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly the same gnu tools < 1252056955 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me, a Cygwin compile of Bash is probably loads less buggy than a MinGW one < 1252056973 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU is very POSIX-oriented, and Cygwin is POSIX while MinGW isn't at all < 1252056979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/ < 1252056982 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP is more POSIX than MinGW < 1252056984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not talking about some random no-name project < 1252056985 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I've seen it before < 1252056987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is well known < 1252056994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need lots of hacks without POSIX < 1252057001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots! < 1252057011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let's put it this way: if i ever need to type /cygdrive, it's disqualified :P < 1252057033 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 'cygpath' is the way around that < 1252057036 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure) < 1252057058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, here's a good reason against unxutils: < 1252057060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Last change on 30-04-04 by Karl M. Syring (bug reports are welcome)" < 1252057073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm sure it's not that old < 1252057081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252057082 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never know, it might be < 1252057084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last updated march 2007 < 1252057085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1252057090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't too bad < 1252057097 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bash 3.0 was from 2004, but 3.2.48 (or whatever) was this year (before 4.0, of course) < 1252057128 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :March 2007 could mean anything, probably a lot still going on behind the scenes < 1252057134 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just no "official" release < 1252057140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html ;; gee, a separate project with the same name < 1252057143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not confusing at all < 1252057143 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know of several projects older than that, heh, but still updated) < 1252057149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I didn't mean it like that < 1252057154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, it's not that old [the latest update] < 1252057161 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's old enough to worry, though < 1252057173 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unless you encounter a bug or lack of feature, it's not an issue < 1252057193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first things first, mingw < 1252057197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can depend on mingw :P < 1252057207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, barely < 1252057209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now do I want to install mingw and whatever it is in the same tree or not... < 1252057212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252057214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1252057216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less PATH cruft < 1252057224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F:\gnu, I guess < 1252057250 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want a shell, eh? could probably just use Eshell in Emacs < 1252057296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell != termina < 1252057296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1252057309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal = graphical program that executes a shell and lets you type into it, scrollback, etc < 1252057320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell = program that parses commands and executes them < 1252057329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal example: cmd.exe the graphical app, bash, zsh < 1252057332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252057334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252057341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal example: cmd.exe the graphical app, xterm, rxvt < 1252057351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell example: cmd.exe the thing that the graphical app runs, bash, zsh < 1252057388 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you said you were running Emacs on Windows < 1252057402 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try "M-x eshell" before you say it's not a shell / terminal :-) < 1252057422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eshell is both < 1252057425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1252057438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ehh, M-x term is as far as I'll go < 1252057457 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"M-x ansi-term" also exists < 1252057462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it isn't very emacsy < 1252057532 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252057617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Spawning child process: invalid argument"; no emacs term for me < 1252057656 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a Lisp bug (which should be reported so it can be fixed) < 1252057669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if not already in CVS) < 1252057682 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what version? (hopefully 23.1) < 1252057882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacsw32, the emacs patched from like june or something < 1252057927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PuTTY terminal emulation is not too shabby; if you want something seriously non-mainstream, I would assume installing some suitable SSH server and using "ssh localhost" with PuTTY would be that. < 1252057946 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I've (barely) heard of Lennard's "EmacsW32" < 1252057951 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but June means it's probably 22.3 < 1252057961 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, or a CVS snapshot) < 1252057968 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23.1 came out on July 29, I think < 1252057983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cvs snapshot < 1252057984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally < 1252057986 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using the official Win32 compile from GNU's FTP < 1252057991 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23.1 < 1252057997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final < 1252058010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we have to fight to the death now. < 1252058065 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1252058071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://code.google.com/p/puttycyg/ < 1252058085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: project not dead; stable version just old) < 1252058090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if I point it at mingw it'll work. < 1252058126 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last updated Aug. 10, so that's good to know < 1252058150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least win2k had a built-in telnet server for running the cmd.exe over telnet. I don't think it worked very well (if at all) if you happened to have a console application that actually did something more cursor-control-oriented. < 1252058153 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/emacs/windows/ < 1252058206 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 MB download (if you want to "upgrade" to 23.1 final) < 1252058265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, ti wants cygwin dll < 1252058323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does? < 1252058326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puttycyg. < 1252058354 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can download it separately, lemme find the link ... < 1252058385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it implise that puttycyg uses cygwni spawning functions to worka < 1252058390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus would fail < 1252058400 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cygwin.com/snapshots/ < 1252058423 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm telling you, GNU projects are *heavily* POSIX-oriented < 1252058432 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Windows does not have decent POSIX support < 1252058442 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no fork, for instance) < 1252058474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm well aware. < 1252058484 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay ... < 1252058590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads J < 1252058625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was that whole "Windows Services for Unix" thing, I wonder if it's still alive for modern windowseses. < 1252058629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252058633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Interix. < 1252058634 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for home useres < 1252058638 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :users < 1252058638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks, I gather. < 1252058650 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the POSIX subsystem is long gone too < 1252058653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=896c9688-601b-44f1-81a4-02878ff11778 < 1252058660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORLY BITCHNIZZLE???11212 < 1252058677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why j wants to install into my home directory. < 1252058681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does not seem like sane thinking. < 1252058693 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no Win XP Home or Vista" < 1252058702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1252058715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs it in system, since he is an admin and as such is invincible. < 1252058719 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Server 2003 R2 < 1252058739 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, not there either) < 1252058743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internets say most of it is included in Vista Enterprise/Ultimate, though. < 1252058748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it works. < 1252058766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wtf my keyboard layout turned british again. rage. < 1252058786 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must've hit some specific key combo < 1252058790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1252058794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I\ve removed all other options < 1252058802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1252058839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (+/%#)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 < 1252058839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.5 < 1252058843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All in functioning order. < 1252058939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% is division? < 1252058969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252058975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think this sign: < 1252058976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1252058978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- < 1252058978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1252058980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :÷ < 1252058981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on its side < 1252058986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/ is used for folding) < 1252059001 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor ASCII-limited fools < 1252059026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you know what happened before they became ASCII-limited fools? < 1252059027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL < 1252059031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do < 1252059031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same people. < 1252059301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, gotta go < 1252059311 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya when I see ya! :-) < 1252059312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes his quicklaunch bar is succumbing to featuritis < 1252059314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1252059319 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252059356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, your "Fisherman's Fiend" idea somehow stuck with me enough to make me buy two packets of Fisherman's Friends. I don't and never did intend to make a Fiend, though. < 1252059377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You suck :P < 1252059397 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them is of the ammonium chloride variety, which I guess is fairly nonstandard < 1252059421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the melted metal + acid version. < 1252059425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scorching! < 1252059433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restarting irc client so that my keyboard layout is right. < 1252059439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252059451 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252059456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo. < 1252059465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252059475 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252059488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am dumb < 1252059492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252059502 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252059509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252059520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1252059564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252059575 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252059598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not working much? :-P < 1252059618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh! < 1252059647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enable the language bar, if such a thing exists, and make sure it's on the right setting when you start your program < 1252059653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1252059657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only one setting < 1252059660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nothing to do with that < 1252059661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252059663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another problem now :P < 1252059664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1252059743 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1252060154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Full installation MMX for DirectX 6.1" < 1252060163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rockin' the high-end configuration here < 1252060203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also 3Dfx Voodoo Glide options :P < 1252060223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I have a Pentium III, and "4G colors". < 1252060233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a SOUND CARD! < 1252060545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the shortcut is "To Play Rayman 2". < 1252060551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of, you know, just "Rayman 2". < 1252060607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why Rayman 2 all of a sudden? < 1252060820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Whaddya mean? < 1252060824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what I installed Windows for. < 1252060840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean why that game in particular < 1252060852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/shrug. I remembered it. < 1252060975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it crashes on changing resoluton just as it always has. < 1252060977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*resolution < 1252064680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252064680 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252064680 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252064681 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252064681 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252064681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252064727 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252064727 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252064727 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1252064727 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1252064727 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1252064727 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252064758 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252064861 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1252067521 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-106-184.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252067606 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252067610 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1252068566 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252069004 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252069694 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-57-81.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252071459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252071656 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252071803 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-88.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252078514 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252079873 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1252079926 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252080993 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080993 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252080994 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-88.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-57-81.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-106-184.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-162-128.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.135.38.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@67-40-212-106.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252080994 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252081196 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009080315]" < 1252083385 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252084072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. The iBook (G4) HD has decided to go and break. I wonder if it's just the standard 2.5" IDE thing, and not some sort of Appleism. (I've only stuck more memory in this thing, and that at least was very normal stuff.) < 1252084187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's your mom < 1252084618 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252085446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw didn't you say no one uses python 3? < 1252085466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brace yourselves! AnMaster is about to take things absolutely literally. < 1252085500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree mostly with that... But I found one exception.... this "introduction to computer science" course uses python 3.1 ... < 1252085505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit weird IMO < 1252085701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1252085702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what uni. < 1252085706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in sveden < 1252085712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell them they're stupid :P < 1252085714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/v/w/ < 1252085764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what to do with the "--with-fpectl" configure flag for python < 1252085768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use or not? < 1252085778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since ubuntu doesn't have 3.1 packaged, only 3.0 < 1252085841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not < 1252085904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know, 3.1 is just 3.0 < 1252085906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with bugfixes < 1252085907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252085916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not worth the bother installing 3.1 < 1252085923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless this introduction course is made by a fan of edgecases < 1252085931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i forbid you from teaching ever) < 1252085937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and some new modules iirc < 1252085945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and computed goto < 1252085956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rewritten IO code in C (to make it fast) < 1252085964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computed goto also is supposed to make it faster < 1252085975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that hello world will be 10x faster and the new brokencsvmicrosoftwordmbox module will be vital in that course. :P < 1252085980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if MinGW comes with a fork(). < 1252085983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one way to find out!* < 1252085985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lie < 1252085995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I tell X to turn caps lock on/off without pressing the caps lock key, somehow? < 1252085999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think we got past that already. We got to loops and functions already :P < 1252086002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: telepathy < 1252086013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think X has a telepathy API < 1252086014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Next step, bleeding-edge modules < 1252086022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :| < 1252086037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F:\Documents and Settings\Elliott Hird\My Documents\Code ;; windows paths are uncomfortably long < 1252086064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you mean like with using xset led or so? < 1252086064 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%HOMEPATH%\My Documents\Code < 1252086086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that actually toggles caps lock or just the led < 1252086097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that isn't the real name. < 1252086100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually thanks for reminding me about that, that should be sufficient < 1252086142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, eh? < 1252086158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to do btw? < 1252086163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that xset -led $i for all $i in 1..32 only toggles scroll lock :-P < 1252086188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, MinGW *doesn't* come with a fork() :-) < 1252086189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I only ever used xset led off < 1252086204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work either; only scroll lock < 1252086218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason that turns off accessibility thingies if they get enabled by mistake < 1252086236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what I did was I applied a vacuum cleaner to my keyboard and now the caps lock LED is inverted respective to the caps lock state < 1252086243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's happened before < 1252086243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes that's weird, I would like to completely disable whatever the hotkey is for stuff like slow keys and such) < 1252086250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And restarting X is a solution < 1252086253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(haven't found the relevant option yet) < 1252086256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm wondering if there's an easier way < 1252086269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fix: avoid using vacuum cleaner while computer is on < 1252086283 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an even worse solution than restarting X < 1252086285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also that thing indicates that caps lock is somehow tracked in hardware < 1252086286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Just vaccum it again < 1252086293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've tried that < 1252086295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252086300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somehow always manage to make it work like this < 1252086304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not the other way around < 1252086313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vaccum a CRT. It won't help, but it'll look cool. < 1252086317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think this means the led is not software controlled at all < 1252086320 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, there's been a difference in that the first time around I try to clean the keyboard < 1252086322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hardware controlled < 1252086327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas the second time around I try to fix caps lock < 1252086332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? I never tried, what happens? < 1252086333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe I'm doing it wrong < 1252086348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No idea, but it's probably quantum. < 1252086355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, unplug the keyboard and replug it? < 1252086359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't if PS/2 < 1252086369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since PS/2 isn't hot-pluggable < 1252086382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS/2 seems to be hot-pluggable < 1252086385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would assume I'm the only one still using a PS/2 keyboard < 1252086395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I recall unplugging this keyboard several times < 1252086396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely Windows must have something that can implement fork() in its annals these days. < 1252086402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it still working without a reboot after replugging < 1252086405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it isn't. IIRC ais said that it could potentially fry your keyboard < 1252086410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252086412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not keyboard < 1252086414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mobo < 1252086419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PS/2 is de facto hot-pluggable, de jure not. < 1252086425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I always use PS/2. I use USB-to-PS/2 adapters for USB keyboards. < 1252086451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well maybe my system is DS9K then. Because my system promptly rebooted when I tried it a year ago or so < 1252086460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why? < 1252086484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Surely Windows must have something that can implement fork() in its annals these days. <-- what about the thing cygwin does? < 1252086495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You mean basically being a kernel in userspace? < 1252086503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort of looking for something along the lines of not that. < 1252086511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Default USB keyboard protocol implementation allows only 6 simultaneously pressed keys (+ 2 or 3 modifiers, I forget) < 1252086522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably 3 modifiers < 1252086524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Learn to type properly and chop off those extra fingers. < 1252086526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well iirc cygwin does it like: run new process but make it wait at a mutex, copy stuff over to new process, resume the new process < 1252086535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Which is evil < 1252086537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And slow < 1252086538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both processes are suspended while this is happening iirc < 1252086548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. But it counts as implementing fork() ;P < 1252086552 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.eggheadcafe.com/conversation.aspx?messageid=32086952&threadid=32040421 <- what about that? < 1252086555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a GOOD fork() but still < 1252086557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does return EDS9K < 1252086576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: still looks like the same thing < 1252086581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's f rom the cygwin time. < 1252086587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so of course it is the same thing. < 1252086589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I figured out a better solution < 1252086590 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZwCreateProcess would be a way to do it, as that mentions < 1252086600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gawd, now I have to look at msdn < 1252086602 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ZwCreateProcess is part of the undocumented NT API < 1252086603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to VT1 -> turn caps lock off -> go back to VT7 (X) < 1252086612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Or not! < 1252086620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undocumented sonuds fun. < 1252086622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sounds < 1252086659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh interesting < 1252086665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, xset led works for me btw < 1252086668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if I need the -Ex variant :-) < 1252086672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don't even have a caps lock key :P < 1252086678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an additional ctrl < 1252086725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, xset led is actually pretty weird < 1252086728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xset led on -> all leds on < 1252086734 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xset led off -> scroll lock off, others remain on < 1252086762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wth < 1252086769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As much as I loathe to give any credo to Xah Lee, see http://xahlee.org/emacs/swap_CapsLock_Ctrl.html < 1252086769 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1252086786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a word that isn't creedo < 1252086803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, xset led on here only turns on scroll lock. It used to turn on caps lock, but that doesn't seem to happen any more < 1252086810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for numlock, it used to affect that too < 1252086813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, inverse situation? :-P < 1252086833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, numlock not affected by off either < 1252086843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, weird < 1252086844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or on < 1252086875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I assume he have small hands < 1252086892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please stop making that stupid grammatical error; you should know by now... < 1252086904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because if I use my palm like he describes, I can't reach z or x with my fingers... < 1252086905 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252086927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you classify everyone who doesn't have huge hands as small handed < 1252086932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is... false, to say the least < 1252086936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an obvious bias < 1252086946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you do exactly the opposite < 1252086952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should even out < 1252086983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I didn't swap. I use it in addition < 1252086989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no caps lock key feature < 1252087004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can press ctrl with my palm and use my index finger to reach every letter up to the YHN column except Q and A < 1252087005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not do exactly the opposite, that is an unfounded assertion. < 1252087011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have small hands? < 1252087020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how should I know? < 1252087031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From my statement < 1252087045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also reaching *up* wasn't the issue < 1252087048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reaching *down* was < 1252087055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1252087057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I would have to curl my finger a lot < 1252087060 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, I can reach all except Q and A < 1252087070 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that includes Z and X < 1252087074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well Q and A are at the top row? < 1252087078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well A isn't < 1252087079 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it requires curl < 1252087080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Q is < 1252087088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with Q and A is they're too far to the left < 1252087096 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My palm slides off ctrl if I press those with my index finger < 1252087102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, can you reach altgr and 2 with the same hand? < 1252087107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, easily < 1252087120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, full sized keyboard? < 1252087120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using thumb + pinkie I can reach right windows and esc < 1252087123 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252087139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sounds pretty normal sized then < 1252087141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's stretching it a bit; I might press altgr at the same time as right windows < 1252087183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right windows and esc is a bit stretching... but then this keyboard has a larger than usual altgr key for some unknown reason < 1252087216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and esc and the f keys are a bit further away than usual too < 1252087224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I don't know what's "usual" anyway, this is an early-90s HP keyboard < 1252087225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the "main" section I mean < 1252087249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, this is a ~2001 Fujitsu Siemens keyboard < 1252087257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly 2002 not sure < 1252087298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this didn't have Windows buttons I'd guess it was 80s :-P < 1252087299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should use an Apple Extended Keyboard II < 1252087304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I can be inexplicable even to the Model M users < 1252087321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, symbolics one would beat even that < 1252087324 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inexplicable? < 1252087325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252087334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbolics keyboards do not have high-quality keyswitches. < 1252087336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has original Alps, doesn't it; that makes it somewhat cool < 1252087338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as far as I know) < 1252087355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Apple Extended's are at least equal to and perhaps better than the Model M's, depending on your tatse. < 1252087356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, alps? Wow those keys must have been quite tall < 1252087356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*taste < 1252087363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :-P < 1252087371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says Alps, yes < 1252087376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's more obscure and the keycaps are made for one OS. < 1252087381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what alps in this context < 1252087384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, John Gruber uses one. < 1252087391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "at least equal to" is incorrect < 1252087399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can like buckling-spring more than the alps just fine < 1252087405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, true. < 1252087407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I mean objectively. < 1252087412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err I remember an apple keyboard without the f-keys at all < 1252087414 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they are different < 1252087416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're undeniably high-quality, and you might subjectively like them more. < 1252087417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was for apple classic < 1252087417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no objectivity about it :-P < 1252087422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: see ^ < 1252087427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what do you mean by "high-quality" < 1252087439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Apple_Extended_Keyboard.jpg < 1252087443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the II < 1252087445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the original < 1252087447 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Alps are a brand of key switches < 1252087456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Cherries, for instance. < 1252087461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What do you mean by "is" < 1252087475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By high-quality I mean they're high-quality in construction and engineering < 1252087492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1252087493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I acknowledge that the Model M's keyswitches are high-quality, and yet I do not really appreciate the feel of typing on it, preferring softer keyboards. < 1252087496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fine < 1252087505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um... is this like ALPS touchpad? as in same ALPS? < 1252087515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough details to compare the quality of the Model M's switches and Alps < 1252087521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any other switches, for that matter < 1252087543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, they're both higher-quality than most stuff on the market, fine. < 1252087555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid at what I'm becoming < 1252087560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Possibly, I don't know. < 1252087568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm enjoying using Windows XP with the classic theme and no font antialiasing! < 1252087573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely sweet death must come soon... < 1252087582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1252087582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on a mac screen or on a 96 DPI one? < 1252087584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything to relieve me from this internal termoil. < 1252087594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Mac. 100dpi isn't really different from 96dpi anyway. < 1252087595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ter/tur/ < 1252087603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only 100 dpi? < 1252087622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what they all are, roughly. < 1252087632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw I saw gimp under mac os x think the ~114 DPI screen was actually 72 DPI < 1252087632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Googling a bit suggests that yes, they're both by Alps Electric Co., Ltd. < 1252087632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 24" Apple Cinema Display @ 1920x1200 is 94dpi, even. < 1252087635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite funny < 1252087642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, < 1252087647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The notebooks are more like 120dpi. < 1252087665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well this one was 114 DPI, a few years old (still intel one though) < 1252087683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most pixel-packing display on an Apple computer is the 17" MacBook Pro, which is full 1920x1200 (!); that's 133dpi. < 1252087739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice < 1252087754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still I want a 30" at > 400 dpi < 1252087760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I want a pony. < 1252087795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah... < 1252087798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw... < 1252087800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd start breaking the piggy bank around 600dpi; with a good backlight you'd be very close to obsoleting print as a superior medium. < 1252087803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :PONY FLU http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1252087804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for reproduction) < 1252087808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1252087809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252087810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ponies < 1252087811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could never < 1252087812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a flu < 1252087813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was UNICORN before < 1252087814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are too PURE < 1252087817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure they can < 1252087820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1252087821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / / < 1252087821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a liar < 1252087823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a plant < 1252087826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the evil plant forest < 1252087827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE < 1252087829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCUM < 1252087832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH PLANT FLU < 1252087853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that probably exists too. *shrug* < 1252087861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P < 1252087875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no? < 1252087916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wake me up at 1200 dpi screens that won't need backlight < 1252087921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OLED < 1252087922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you don't use backlight for a book < 1252087932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iPaper. < 1252087935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1252087936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eInk < 1252087937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1252087937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1252087947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes something like that < 1252087954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how good colours it has yet < 1252087957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what the DPI is < 1252087961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about response time < 1252087974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hopefully at some point it will be good enough < 1252087990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, backlight as an option would be nice < 1252088026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in dark environments < 1252088042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nicer than having to use a torch < 1252088047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come cmd.exe only lets you choose between Lucida and the default thingy :\ < 1252088060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what fonts are installed? < 1252088067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stock < 1252088074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe those are the only fixed ones < 1252088076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly the default terminal font is very crisp. < 1252088079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just... very bold, too. < 1252088086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, better bold than shy < 1252088103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 6x8 version is yummy like 9pt Monaco. < 1252088105 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Registry hacks can let you use Consolas etc. in the console < 1252088108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, er, small. < 1252088115 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though Consolas will look like vomit without Cleartype) < 1252088126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I have a policy not to antialias stuff in here for no adequately explained reason < 1252088193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :PONY F < 1252088195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops. < 1252088201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, heehehehhe Small Fonts is cute. < 1252088245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Bold Segoe UI actually looks acceptable pixelated < 1252088258 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252088343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you forgot log link < 1252088344 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just turned off font smoothing and it's still being used in places < 1252088348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :PONY F http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1252088350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "oops". < 1252088359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: yah, some shitty things force htat < 1252088361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and didn't try to fix it? < 1252088365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly ms crap < 1252088369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i am a lazy man. < 1252088375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :PONY FLU http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1252088391 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like notepad's main menu, and window titles (it's aero glass) < 1252088410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I just turned off font smoothing and it's still being used in places <-- iirc it only takes effect for apps started after the setting was changed < 1252088414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that may depend on OS < 1252088423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly is like that under X < 1252088438 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1252088438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252088449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is being forced for the C* font family by Microsoft programs. < 1252088460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they mostly look like excrement without ClearType. < 1252088479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: what's that registry hack you were speaking of? < 1252088481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cleartype *looks* like excrement. More so on lower resolutuon monitors < 1252088494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ClearType is a very bad implementation of subpixel smoothing. < 1252088496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252088500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, all are unbearable apart from OS X's, which looks nice. < 1252088502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/resolution/dpi/ < 1252088506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only in the context of OS X's UI. < 1252088515 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://blog.wolffmyren.com/2008/09/15/consolas-as-cmdexe-windows-console-font/ < 1252088517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This explains how Safari on Windows can look like such dung.) < 1252088527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you think the linux subpixel stuff sucks too? < 1252088531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that could explain it < 1252088536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freetype, yeah. < 1252088557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. so why was you so surprised when I didn't like it on my laptop then? < 1252088573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because at that high DPI, I really didn't think it would matter < 1252088578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252088582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/was/were/ < 1252088598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X rendering strongly resembles print; a lot of people dislike it for that reason when viewing it in their OS of choice but I've never heard of anyone walking up to a Mac and going "Eww, the fonts are all *smudgy!*". < 1252088639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if powershell is any good < 1252088642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is powershell any good, Windows users? < 1252088672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a vector display. Wouldn't need anti-alias at all < 1252088674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1252088683 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit enterprisey, and slow to start up, but it's better than cmd < 1252088746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it enterprisey? < 1252088755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what key did THAT < 1252088779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1252088850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I could just install the Lisp Machine monospaced font. :-) < 1252088864 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ls, for example, returns a list of objects, not text, and you manipulate it by inspecting the properties of the objects. It's nice in some ways, but it can get clunky too. < 1252088878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.eurogaran.com/downloads/lispmfont/screenshot.jpg < 1252088889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is this the nicest bitmap monospace font ever? < 1252088893 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252088900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looks nice, but what is up with the 7? < 1252088907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 7 looks really ugly < 1252088912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a european 7. < 1252088916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1252088916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rendered quite uglily. < 1252088923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dash through the middle. < 1252088923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :european 7? < 1252088933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, I always write my 7-s like that < 1252088945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7s? 7:s? < 1252088948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only so many pixels to go around. Anyway, how many 7s do you have in your code? < 1252088957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs 7zip < 1252088975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do math homework in emacs? ;P < 1252088995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm too lazy to use a pen. A lot more effort < 1252089002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucida Typewriter looks nice < 1252089022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where can one get that lispmfont in a format that a modern system knows < 1252089032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.fon is not unmodern. < 1252089048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh same directory < 1252089050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252089102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I just installed it by dragging-and-dropping the .fon to my Fonts folder. < 1252089186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, found a flaw: the . is not monospaced and is unusally small. < 1252089199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems the .pcf works < 1252089201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .fon didn't < 1252089302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I had the money for http://www.fsd.it/fonts/pragma.htm < 1252089315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 12pt Mac aliased is pretty much unsurpassable there for ease-of-reading. < 1252089327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, ehh, 90 euros man < 1252089352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no < 1252089358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it complains it's an archive < 1252089360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it isn't < 1252089460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there is a Windows (un)archiver that exposes things as compressed folders As They Should Be. < 1252089468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the integrated .zip support for that, but... it's just .zip. < 1252089534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be adventurous and try and sleep this computer now for a second. < 1252090182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252090281 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252090524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252090639 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252090661 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :MAHJONG FLU http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1252090801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why that? < 1252090824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why what? Did you mean the TOPIC setting? < 1252090866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what else? < 1252090874 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. OK < 1252090894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why mahjong < 1252090899 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't like it you can change it back, but I think it was changed to a few things it can change a few ways < 1252090912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I didn't say that. < 1252090913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because yesterday I purchased Akagi DS game < 1252090924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wondered what made you decide on mahjong < 1252090926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252090942 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why, it is because I purchased Akagi DS game yesterday. < 1252090955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there is a esolangs idea for something having to do with mahjong game, too < 1252090961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this "akagi ds" is some sort of mahjong? < 1252090966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mahjong game* < 1252090995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION usually plays kmahjong when he plays mahjong (which isn't very often) < 1252091003 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Akagi DS is a mahjong game for DS. It has a few unique features (such as ZawaZawa power, Washizu mahjong, story mode, and some others), but is generally inferior. < 1252091021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS being some old portable nintendo thingy iirc? < 1252091031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was gameboy the old thing and ds the modern one? < 1252091054 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kmahjong isn't a mahjong game as far as I can tell. < 1252091067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS is the new Nintendo handheld system (except DSi is even more newer) < 1252091067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252091074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kmahjong <-- how is it not? < 1252091092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the KDE one < 1252091094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just one type of solitaire game that can be played with mahjong tiles. < 1252091108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well maybe. There are some other ones too < 1252091109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252091119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kshisen < 1252091123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer that one < 1252091124 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mahjong is played with 4 people < 1252091154 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Kshisen is another different solitaire mahjong game. < 1252091167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, all games called "mahjong" that I have seen have been solitaire ones... < 1252091195 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They call them "mahjong" because they use the mahjong tiles. But real mahjong game isn't like that. < 1252091235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I usually prefer games with a story. This means stuff like single player RPGs or adventure games. I'm a big fan of some of the zelda games for example < 1252091262 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Akagi DS game has a story < 1252091263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zelda a link to the past, and zelda ocarina of time would be my two top favourite ones < 1252091277 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can play free mode also. < 1252091296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, still quite far from the "story" in something like a RPG I assume? < 1252091394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is more like a story than other mahjong games have, but not quite like you would see in a RPG < 1252091422 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have the full collection of Akagi manga book 1-22 < 1252091451 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have three mahjong games on my computer, Zootto Mahjong, Nantonaku Mahjong, 4-Winds Mahjong. < 1252091459 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I will write my own, too. Called XUL-Mahjong < 1252091468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1252091655 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Akagi DS game and Akagi manga book are all in Japanese, though. But I like it, especially with Washizu tiles. < 1252091691 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zootto Mahjong and Nantonaku Mahjong are also both in Japanese. < 1252091740 0 :Hiato!n=fdulu@dsl-245-3-02.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1252092036 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just now I searched for a mahjong game on Japanese SourceForge, I did find one, written in Ruby. Possibly I could try to figure it out to add some feature, such as Washizu tiles. < 1252092360 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_0C/yakuman.png http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_0C/mahjong1.png < 1252092366 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252093394 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252095306 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252095310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.python.org/issue1453http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 <-- hehe < 1252095315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hiwc < 1252095320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hi < 1252095351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION somehow found Lightning Made of Owls amusing today < 1252095636 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252095737 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252095881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw my shift key is starting to get a slight jwz-look. Nothing as bad yet though < 1252097147 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252098123 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"underflow" < 1252099077 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252099098 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252099656 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252099739 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-214.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252099749 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitches! < 1252099844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg. < 1252100047 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been away < 1252100048 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sorry < 1252100055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive moved to maryland and i dont have internet in my place yet < 1252100061 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesnt mean i dont love you! T_t < 1252100115 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, im off to the library < 1252100117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodbye! < 1252100118 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1252100529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252100702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't love you, augur. < 1252102252 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252102642 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252102821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you were talking about eink response times? < 1252102822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jwz.livejournal.com/1080224.html < 1252102824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dismal! < 1252102846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a white box? < 1252102851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of plugin is needed < 1252102855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash. < 1252102870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube? < 1252102873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, flickr. < 1252102877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1252102885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no luck then < 1252102890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your loss. < 1252102896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252102919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I secretly wish that one day, the web will be almost entirely Flash-based, and you will be forced to resort to using: gopher; no electricity; no running water; no surrounding society. Am I a bad person?) < 1252103128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1252103142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252103149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://bugs.python.org/issue1453http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 <-- your opinion? That issue exists in 3.1 too btw < 1252103153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1252103925 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-214.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252104116 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1252105073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1252105730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252105937 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252106529 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252107648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252107695 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252108527 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252108965 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252109103 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252109111 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252109134 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1252109195 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252111711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252112122 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252112366 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252112420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I secretly wish that one day, the web will be almost entirely Flash-based, and you will be forced to resort to using: gopher; no electricity; no running water; no surrounding society. Am I a bad person?) < 1252112463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid this will only lead to him making his own flash interpreter, probably together with zzo38. < 1252112541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably based on gopher, though < 1252112547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessir < 1252112588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, http://bugs.python.org/issue1453http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 <-- your opinion? That issue exists in 3.1 too btw < 1252112601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my opinion is that you need to learn to paste URLs better < 1252112683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my impression from one of the comments was it was based on a misunderstanding, with the flag going to configure instead of cc < 1252112691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*make < 1252112739 0 :augur!n=augur@store.redemmas.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252112807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see the last comment < 1252112844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on that page) < 1252113092 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey goise < 1252113675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bourgois(i)e < 1252113699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+(e) < 1252113726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn french who cannot spell < 1252114072 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burgwah < 1252114576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burgwah < 1252114576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252114611 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bO:R\zwazi: < 1252114618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zwa** < 1252114643 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@24.207.48.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252114660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1554430 < 1252115130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, ha, it isn't about GameCube! Now push the Explode button and your TV will explode and money will come out. < 1252115131 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252115346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have an Explode button, and suspects that is fortunate. < 1252116651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once again manages to write "proof reading" in an edit summary < 1252116787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252117594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252122481 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252126600 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252128347 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252128498 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252129557 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252130745 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252131463 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252131694 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252134522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252134902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252137301 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252137599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252137600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252140482 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252141375 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-13-131.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252142284 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252142641 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-227.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252143294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my opinion is that you need to learn to paste URLs better <-- I blame synergy < 1252143309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my impression from one of the comments was it was based on a misunderstanding, with the flag going to configure instead of cc <-- yes but no one else does it like that < 1252143660 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252146042 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252148500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm I think I finally found a way to make string pushing significantly faster in cfunge. Sadly it is only for x86 and x86-64 < 1252148537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure if the env strings are usually as long as they are on my gentoo system that it would matter much elsewhere < 1252151561 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252155006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You using more asm? :-P < 1252155466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sites.google.com/site/ryanbroomfield/xkcd-sans-women < 1252155774 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252158936 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252159812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm considering doing it < 1252159834 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252159837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw how good are you at sed? < 1252159841 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252159895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if there is any shorter way to write this in sed: sed '/^\//!d;s/\(.[ch]\)(\([0-9][0-9]*\)):/\1:\2:/;s/\(error\|remark\|warning\) #/\1: #/' < 1252159930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw it is supposed to convert ICC style diagnostic output into a format that some tools that expect GCC style can understand) < 1252159946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and it actually works, just seems so messy) < 1252160510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably with "-r" you save a few backslashes -- just "(foo|bar|baz)" instead of "\(foo\|bar\|baz\)", though you need to escape the raw parens then -- but in general that looks a bit too simple to optimize much, unless you can combine those two s///s together (i.e. both are done on same lines). I don't quite know what the ICC output looks like. < 1252160591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And -r's not posix, of course. < 1252160620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least the 1003.1-2001 one.) < 1252160717 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"fe'o" < 1252160839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probably with "-r" you save a few backslashes -- just "(foo|bar|baz)" instead of "\(foo\|bar\|baz\)", though you need to escape the raw parens then -- but in general that looks a bit too simple to optimize much, unless you can combine those two s///s together (i.e. both are done on same lines). I don't quite know what the ICC output looks like. <-- hm right, they are indeed < 1252160867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can maybe combine them, though it might not look any prettier that way. < 1252160899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for -r, I doubt this will be useful on anything but linux. Or is ICC available for other platforms than windows and linux? < 1252160973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X, at least some versions at some point. < 1252161028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there was some QNX thing too, but that can't be very popular. < 1252161367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and it depends on absolute paths in the output, to detect the relevant lines (which is true by default for cmake projects, which is where I needed this) < 1252161547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want those lines for which the s/// matches -- I mean, it already has that ".[ch](digits)" test to see relevant lines -- you can write something like "s///; t ok;d;: ok" to save the /^\//!d test, but it looks a bit crufty with the jump. < 1252161575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the .ch bit was because there is (digits) sometimes later on the line too < 1252161589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.[ch] I mean < 1252161610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it might be good enough to pick up relevant lines already with that. < 1252161926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw what would unlink(NULL); do? < 1252161937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean is it undef or just error? < 1252161974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it should logically return EFAULT in errno, but I wouldn't maybe count on that. < 1252161986 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252162017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what icc means with "warning #12331: function "chdir" is vulnerable to race conditions"... < 1252162027 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252162226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know; the only related race I can think of is in the "process creates a directory, then someone removes it and places a symlink to some existing wrong place, process then chdirs into the wrong place" case, but that's not so very chdir-related. < 1252162245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw do you know if this is well defined: if ((foo == NULL) || (function_not_checking_parameter_for_null_first(foo) == 1)) { return ERROR_CODE; } < 1252162257 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a process with multiple threads, all threads share the same chdir. < 1252162262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, ah right < 1252162278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess it could just be about that, but isn't that quite obvious. < 1252162280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, except this program uses no threads... < 1252162292 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I think "race condition", I think "threads", making that quite obvious. < 1252162303 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although of course there are other non-thread race conditions out there :P ) < 1252162308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since it is produced during link time optimisation it should know that pthreads aren't linked < 1252162333 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet icc compiles with threads whether you want it to or not :P < 1252162335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, || is still short-circuiting, foo will not be null if function_not_checking_this_name_is_too_long is called. < 1252162367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, actually no. It only does that if you use -parallel to auto-parallelise. Checked with ldd < 1252162382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right. Forgot if it was in C < 1252162495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, can't seem to find any references to that #12331 chdir warning from the interwebs. It must not be a very popular ICC flag that enables it. < 1252162643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, -diag-enable sc1 < 1252162671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did find some useful things, like a few missing checks for NULL in places that needed them < 1252162696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but almost everything else seems to be false warnings so far < 1252162731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's funny, since it seems "sc1" is just about "critical errors", and that sounds like quite a just-in-case warning. < 1252162746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep. I wonder what sc2 and above will do... < 1252162757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why on earth I wrote this: < 1252162763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 0: handles[h]->file = fopen(filename, "rb"); break; < 1252162763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 1: handles[h]->file = fopen(filename, "wb"); break; < 1252162763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 2: handles[h]->file = fopen(filename, "ab"); break; < 1252162765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1252162765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your variable names are not poetic enough." < 1252162767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 cases < 1252162789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean clearly the mode bit should just be calculated then the call be made with a variable < 1252162811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that is possibly messier in C < 1252163724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because you didn't write it but rather copied it from CCBI :-P < 1252163908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah would explain the bad coding style. < 1252163911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252163921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's somewhat needed in CCBI < 1252163925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 0: file = c.fopen(name, "rb"); if (!file) goto default; break; < 1252163925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 1: file = c.fopen(name, "wb"); if (!file) goto default; break; < 1252163925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 2: file = c.fopen(name, "ab"); if (!file) goto default; c.rewind(file); break; < 1252163935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the rewind may not be needed < 1252163938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever < 1252163961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have the rewind stuff further down < 1252163971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((mode == 2) || (mode == 5)) < 1252163971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rewind(handles[h]->file); < 1252163997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/own/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/FILE/FILE.c:337: error: #12306: unvalidated value is received from call to an external function at (file:/home/arvid/src/own/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/FILE/FILE.c line:326) which can be used in loop condition expression < 1252163998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1252164011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out what that was about < 1252164014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't check ferror or something? < 1252164029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 326 is: < 1252164031 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252164031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((bytes_read = fread(buf, sizeof(unsigned char), (size_t)n, fp)) != (size_t)n) { < 1252164035 0 :JoelyWoely!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252164040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I check it there < 1252164055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is what the if does < 1252164065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since bytes_read is the bit that is found in the loop < 1252164075 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252164108 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252164108 0 :JoelyWoely!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252164176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:25:49 ehird, http://bugs.python.org/issue1453http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 <-- your opinion? That issue exists in 3.1 too btw < 1252164177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1252164180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@ you) < 1252164198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was already pointed out, and I blame synergy as I said < 1252164253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:45:30 Ha, ha, it isn't about GameCube! Now push the Explode button and your TV will explode and money will come out. < 1252164254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough, clicking the link did not make me understand this any more. < 1252164359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:50:45 fizzie, btw do you know if this is well defined: if ((foo == NULL) || (function_not_checking_parameter_for_null_first(foo) == 1)) { return ERROR_CODE; } < 1252164359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, stop coding C < 1252164361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1252164381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well icc didn't claim it was. < 1252164402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've already established icc is overly pedantic < 1252164418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it strayed into "plain wrong" there < 1252164434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:15:24 Probably because you didn't write it but rather copied it from CCBI :-P < 1252164434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey now, he might have changed the indentation style! < 1252164439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nope, not even that < 1252164444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, yes < 1252164447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he converted it to tabs < 1252164453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er what? I use tabs < 1252164455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :significant modifications, here < 1252164457 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252164461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: er right < 1252164468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I selected the space next to > < 1252164468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He removed tabs, mayhap < 1252164468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for you < 1252164492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you aren't even funny. Also isn't one of the points of open source to be able to share code ;P < 1252164500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes I do give credit) < 1252164520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally it's considered polite to label things like that "ports" < 1252164532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that'd be offensive to CCBI, which doesn't have half of its code as asm optimisations < 1252164616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do include a comment at the top of that file about many parts being based on CCBI. Reason here was that I implemented that RCS fingerprint before Mike Riley showed up here. < 1252164625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when his docs were even worse. < 1252164637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm further convinced that you don't actually read messages you reply to < 1252164666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I generally skip lines with a too high sillyness quota < 1252164686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: I ignore lines I don't agree with < 1252164813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, definitely not. < 1252164833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if I did that I wouldn't be able to end up arguing with you for such long periods. < 1252164838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction: I ignore lines I strongly don't agree with, especially if they're from people I dislike. < 1252164869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Not really, but when you are sarcastic or just plain silly, then yes. < 1252164904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction: If I continue to add qualifiers to this sentence I can justify [ignoring lines I strongly don't agree with, especially if they're from people I dislike]. < 1252164933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... now you are getting close to silly again. < 1252164973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're... incredibly predictable. < 1252164988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so is your mom < 1252165036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we find AnMaster using his staple argumentative technique, "argumentum ad I don't have any rebuttals so I'll make a bad joke and hope everyone forgets about the argument". < 1252165047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Said in Attenborough voice.) < 1252165088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, you didn't answer the question about that bug above. < 1252165094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.python.org/issue1453 that is < 1252165113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite wtfy of python to only let CFLAGS passed to configure affect configure itself < 1252165116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is there to say? You linked me to a tedious, sundry bug. < 1252165123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is completely different to what everyone else does < 1252165208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1252165422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll have to rieinstall windows < 1252165435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reinstall < 1252165625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252165635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers looking at older notebook models < 1252165654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 14" 4:3 notebook is the same width as a 12" 16:10 notebook and quite a bit taller... < 1252165675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ prolly less bezel than a 12"; e.g. look at the X200's) < 1252165916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1252165920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 14" 4:3 notebook is the same width as a 12" 16:10 notebook and quite a bit taller... < 1252165921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ prolly less bezel than a 12"; e.g. look at the X200's) < 1252165927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := more screen space while fitting on my lap < 1252165928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err I meant about why reinstall < 1252165931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252165932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not why the 14" < 1252165937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my keyboard stopped working < 1252165945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh... tried rebooting? < 1252165955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. also repairing the drivers. < 1252165964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe unplug it and plugging it in again? < 1252165972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bluetooth. < 1252165975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1252165977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I turned it off and on again. < 1252165979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about that < 1252165980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tried to repair. < 1252165984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It "supposedly" worked, but not really. < 1252166000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: About that? < 1252166002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you set up the initial pair connection thingy for bluetooth keyboard and mice < 1252166013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a keyboard, just click click click. < 1252166018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can generate a pairing key for you. < 1252166027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean, enter key shown on screen or such? < 1252166038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're like 8 digits long < 1252166041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252166043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo insecure :P < 1252166048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about mice, how do you input it there? < 1252166055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't. < 1252166059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1252166064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just turn it on, maybe press a button on the back, and pair at the same time. < 1252166073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's magic. < 1252166086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then two mice in range trying to pair at the same time is unlikely, after all. < 1252166107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1252166127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Issues with looking at older notebooks: run hotter and louder, lower specs, dimmer displays < 1252166137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotter and dimmer being the main issues < 1252166149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"256 or 512MB PC2-4200 memory standard, 2GB max < 1252166149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40, 60 or 80GB PATA HDD" < 1252166150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unless someone is setting up a computer lab at some uni. But I guess usb mice are more common there to make it harder to steal < 1252166155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, well, more than 80GB would be nice. < 1252166185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could use a SATA→PATA adapter and scrunch a big SSD in there with some ingenuity. < 1252166187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, do you plan getting some notebook bag/backpack or similar? < 1252166200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I can't exactly hold it all the time. < 1252166203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when I was looking for one to mine I only saw ones made for wide screen < 1252166213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I could just get a regular bag < 1252166216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could just get a larger bag < 1252166228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a 15" one for a 12" laptop or similar < 1252166257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T43 is 32.9 x 26.8 x 3.6 cm. < 1252166259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, but the ones made for notebooks tend to have some extra padding < 1252166281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, who cares about that. The only PC notebooks I'd really consider are ThinkPads, and they're sturdy. < 1252166294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice both for your back (in case of backpack at least) and for the notebook (for obvious reasons) < 1252166306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know, by the way, that the original iBook weighed a whole 3kg? < 1252166309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks so... dinky. < 1252166315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that sounds about right < 1252166316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clamshell) < 1252166320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have one of those :P < 1252166326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT'S DINKY. < 1252166332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define dinky < 1252166338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DINKY < 1252166341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252166345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a word. < 1252166355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, the T43 is 2.3kg. Old notebooks sure are heavy :P < 1252166380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw for clamshell ones: don't use the built in handle thingy < 1252166394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not in the market for a clamshell iBook, AnMaster. "{ < 1252166394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least mine shows some worrying cracks in the plastic handle. < 1252166395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1252166411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :( it would match your old powerpc mac perfectly < 1252166428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed '/^\/home\// !d;s/\(.[ch]\)(\([0-9][0-9]*\)):/\1:\2:/;s/\(error\|remark\|warning\) #/\1: #/' < 1252166428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if I was looking for a Mac and yet wanted an old notebook. Especially since they can't even run Snow Leopard, being PPC.) < 1252166429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252166431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy fail < 1252166441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what the hell is going on < 1252166450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I select something in firefox and it pastes old stuff every time < 1252166454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/imgad?id=CKr185OFk9KEdRDIARjIATIIb2Sq8OBFTU4 < 1252166457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame syngergy < 1252166457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT JUST SEXY AS HELL < 1252166503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, there's an old ThinkPad in the local refurbished laptop shop; I think it was an X-something. < 1252166504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1252166508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM era, though. < 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitions of dinky on the Web: < 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * small and insignificant; "we stayed in a dinky old hotel" < 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * a small locomotive < 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * (British informal) pretty and neat; "what a dinky little hat" < 1252166508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn < 1252166511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one did you mean < 1252166520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh, all of them apart from the middle. < 1252166528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252166528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... small. And cute-looking. Not 3kg looking. :P < 1252166541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there were two ThinkPads at that shop, but one was being used as a mousepad. < 1252166541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't small. Well the 12" 800x600 screen is < 1252166545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the laptop itself < 1252166551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wide borders around the screen after all < 1252166580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/IBook_G4.jpg The iBook G4's keyboard looks nice. Also holy crap that button is big. < 1252166590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually there were two ThinkPads at that shop, but one was being used as a mousepad. <-- sounds uncomfortable since the thinkpads I have seen are quite thick... < 1252166615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, remember that yours was the "low-cost" model, so it compromises on weight and thickness, but no, not really. < 1252166617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The desk wasn't very high. < 1252166623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the monitor was on top of some books. < 1252166631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't as makeshift-looking as it sounds. < 1252166633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I the button isn't as much "large" as the whole laptop is "small" < 1252166648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That button is really deep compared to the trackpad, dood. :P < 1252166661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, deep? < 1252166671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err you mean tall? < 1252166671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Further in. < 1252166682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that is not how you look at notebooks. < 1252166689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1252166691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look at the screen. Deep. < 1252166705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are talking about the trackpad click button right? < 1252166708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is also how they measure how big the keyboard/pad area is. Deepness. < 1252166715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are using the wrong dimensions. < 1252166717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252166729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("In 2005 the Chinese manufacturer, Lenovo, purchased the ThinkPad brand from IBM, in a five year deal whereby IBM still helps in the marketing and support of these products." that explains the ibm.com) < 1252166735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, screen depth refers to number of bits per pixel... < 1252166742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Added the Windows key to all 60-series and newer laptops making all the Windows shortcuts possible. (Although possible before with the keyboard remapping utility)" < 1252166743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, only lenovo did that? < 1252166751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't know what the word depth means? Really? < 1252166761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ported the ThinkPad keyboard into stand-alone keyboards for desktop PCs in PS/2 or USB flavor. [12]" < 1252166761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow. < 1252166764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I do, like widthxheightxdepth < 1252166768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drools < 1252166774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-45868 < 1252166776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT HAS A NIPPLE < 1252166779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I fail to see which dimension is which here < 1252166784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best input device evar < 1252166803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually no, it is better to switch between trackpoint and touchpad IME < 1252166809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has both < 1252166810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that one has both < 1252166812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252166817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that lovely keyboard. < 1252166822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like no windows key, though. < 1252166827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that doesn't look like a logo. < 1252166852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and indeed, old thinkpads had no windows key iirc. < 1252166853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A disturbing trend in keyboards recently: Microsoft are getting people to do the windows-logo-surrounded-by-orb thing PHYSICALLY. < 1252166872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A convex bit of smooth plastic pressed into the key with the windows logo on it. < 1252166882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean keys should feel good to type? < 1252166887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MICROSOFT ARE GIVING US MONEY! < 1252166909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about ms ergonomic keyboards? If they still make them < 1252166916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno < 1252166920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://computersolutions.co.nz/images/newsletter/2007-10-14/Windows%20Key.jpg ;; example < 1252166968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet old notebooks don't have very good battery life... < 1252166985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on my thinkpad there is a circle around the windows logo, but it is made so that the windows logo is slightly below the surface of the key, hardly possible to notice at all. < 1252166996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the surface inside the circle is flat < 1252167000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's moving me slightly towards an Apple notebook, actually. All the MacBook Pros have 7 hours battery life apart from the 17" model, which has 8. < 1252167015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess they can't anything convex on a laptop :) < 1252167016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And yes, in testing they get near these in real world use.) < 1252167044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Graphs: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3580&p=4) < 1252167051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That looks like it'd feel absolutely horrid < 1252167055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH it's not a very important key < 1252167056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It does < 1252167064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And it is on a Mac, e.g. < 1252167069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's option there < 1252167073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Alt becoming Command) < 1252167099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean windows key is the super key :P < 1252167104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252167107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option is Alt. < 1252167112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and menu is compose) < 1252167113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command is Meta. < 1252167125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well on macs yes < 1252167131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Option is Compose I guess. < 1252167138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option-e e → é < 1252167138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1252167151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option-a a → ā < 1252167154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Option-e a → á < 1252167156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1252167161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's in shortcuts too. < 1252167165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Control, Compose and Meta. < 1252167190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, press compose release, type mu gives µ < 1252167198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know < 1252167205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Compose-' e = é, for example < 1252167210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same general idea < 1252167218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do special characters, maybe with argument" < 1252167220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1252167222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Option fits < 1252167235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Command is the main shortcut key for, well, commands. < 1252167238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Meta definitely fits. < 1252167240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where pi is with compose < 1252167262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, then you get silly combinations like Compose-Command-v because Compose is just arbitrary in a shortcut. < 1252167268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Logitech illuminated has the windows-logo-emboss-thing, and I personally don't really notice it that much; it looks to have a bith smoother rim around the logo than in that picture, though. < 1252167282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use it much, since I've bound all window-manager shortcuts to that. < 1252167380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers writing a paper on erroneously spatial interfaces < 1252167389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because that term, that I just invented, is awesome. < 1252167462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The windows key keycap design is rather strictly regulated, see all 23 pages of http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/e/1/de1e0c8f-a222-47bc-b78b-1656d4cf3cf7/HardwareStartButtonV102.doc (if you can open a Word .doc, anyway) < 1252167494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a keyboard whose icon for the Windows key is a turd. < 1252167500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just press Turd-Q." < 1252167536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That document is one of the requirements if you want that "Windows Logo Program" thing, so you can put the logo on the box. < 1252167553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SHAPE \* MERGEFORMAT < 1252167553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure 1: Sample implementation of the Hardware Start Button < 1252167570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same idea, but instead of a turd, the text "SHAPE \* MERGEFORMAT". < 1252167582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Diameter of the Chamfer" < 1252167804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But see, it's not like they're strict about the stuff; you can use a "matte finish with a consistent texture of MT11000 or equivalent" instead of the "SPI A2 gloss finish". Well, of course only if you're distributing the keyboard in the EU area. < 1252167877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252167911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why is it that in 2008 were there over 3 million searches on the keywords Obama Antichrist" and "Obama Messiah"?.......Does Barack Obama have an apocalyptic role given the global financial circumstances in which he has risen to power. Is he a man divinely appointed or an agent of the New World Order objective?" < 1252167917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Apple has an equally ridiculous thing, it's just internal because they make all their own keyboards :-P < 1252167934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not really, they've differed significantly < 1252167947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, on my previous keyboard it was "⌥ alt" or something, on this it's < 1252167949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alt < 1252167949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1252167950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option" < 1252167987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this, it's "(hollow apple) ⌘", on the later ones, it's "command ⌘". < 1252168022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even the Apple logo is pretty subtle. Certainly no polished domes for it. < 1252168048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the thing with the Apple keyboard is all done with Bluetooth Reality Distortion Fields. < 1252168059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically you see Steve Jobs. All the time. And nothing else. < 1252168060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's great. < 1252168317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but they would never let another company produce keyboards with apple logos I bet < 1252168329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A company defending their logo < 1252168333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil! Boycott Apple. < 1252168389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's horrible. And it seems Microsoft are positively open compared to apple in this case ;P < 1252168517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other silly warning from ICC: warning #12330: function "system" possibly accepts command line < 1252168525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah? that's the whole point isn't it? < 1252168594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like a strong AI compiler or something < 1252168648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh you mean it is intended for "don't use this in a web server" kind of thing warning? < 1252168655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could possibly explain it < 1252168661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a "yo, man, be careful with this input" < 1252168672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah that's what I meant < 1252170166 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252170504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do ORTH instructions reflect on error? < 1252170511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can they error? < 1252170519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well the output string one could < 1252170524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1252170547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact any output one could. < 1252170551 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to you I guess < 1252170577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the reason I asked was simply that ORTH is after all based on another language. < 1252170669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what they do there < 1252171246 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-13-131.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252171472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about this ICC warning: < 1252171482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"return value of function "clearerr" is ignored < 1252171491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to man page the prototype is: < 1252171498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void clearerr(FILE *stream); < 1252171515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't happen to any other void function as far as I can tell < 1252171535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably then isn't void "in reality", i.e. in the system headers. < 1252171557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/stdio.h:extern void clearerr (FILE *__stream) __THROW; < 1252171572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious. Maybe ICC's just very confused. < 1252171623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it provides it's own stdio headers? doesn't make any sense... but who knows... *greps* < 1252171627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you actually have there included, but one would guess not having that would lead to other warnings. < 1252171641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I include stdio.h < 1252171662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that was at the sc3 level btw < 1252171720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, grepping the whole icc directory didn't turn up any clearerr except stuff like "binary file /opt/intel/Compiler/11.1/046/bin/intel64/icc matches" < 1252171746 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__THROW? < 1252171749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ nm -D /home/arvid/local/intel/Compiler/11.1/046/bin/intel64/icc | grep clearerr < 1252171749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : U clearerr < 1252171764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, unknown, it's gnu headers. would take way to long to track that down < 1252171775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are things like ctags < 1252171784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a lot of __BEGIN_NAMESPACE_STD macros. < 1252171814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are probably using the same header for the thing, or whatever, and want the empty-throw-declaration there. Or something. < 1252171829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__THROW seems to be defined in lots of places < 1252171848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try removing __THROw and see if it still complains < 1252171851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from grep (keep in mind that there are no context lines here): < 1252171853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From clearerr) < 1252171853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/cdefs.h:# define __THROW __attribute__ ((__nothrow__)) < 1252171853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/cdefs.h:# define __THROW throw () < 1252171858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right < 1252171870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just sounds like the type of thing that might be causing it. < 1252171872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252171874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prolly is < 1252171880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how throw = nothrow < 1252171883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something :P < 1252171883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, __THROW is there for stuff it doesn't complain about though < 1252171893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe you aren't ignoring that stuff. < 1252171894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I think those two lines there just contradicted itself < 1252171897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252171899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think it's defined empty for the not-gcc case. < 1252171899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :themselves < 1252171901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it's using a different #defined value there. < 1252171907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: icc says it's gcc. < 1252171908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ICC claims to be GCC, IIRC. < 1252171908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ICC defined __GNUC__ though < 1252171912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1252171945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case it really shouldn't be confused by GCC attributes. < 1252171974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which make all hell break loose in cfunge, except that I explicitly check for __INTEL_COMPILER < 1252172025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My headers define __THROW to "__attribute__ ((__nothrow__))" for (not C++, GCC >= 3.3); to "throw ()" for (C++, GCC >= 2.8) and to empty otherwise. < 1252172032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what does throw() in C++ mean? < 1252172039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not throw exceptions. < 1252172040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"may not throw"? < 1252172042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252172050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not call it nothrow() or something then < 1252172060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "throw with an empty list". < 1252172064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes perfect sense. < 1252172069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed < 1252172071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the list of exceptions we may throw: none. < 1252172086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the same thing as __attribute__ ((nothrow)) I guess, though I don't know what the attribute actually does in non-C++ code. < 1252172105 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252172117 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252172151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seems pretty unclear from gcc docs too < 1252172156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The `nothrow' attribute is used to inform the compiler that a function cannot throw an exception." < 1252172160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The nothrow attribute is used to inform the compiler that a function cannot throw an exception. For example, most functions in the standard C library can be guaranteed not to throw an exception with the notable exceptions of qsort and bsearch that take function pointer arguments. The nothrow attribute is not implemented in GCC versions earlier than 3.3." < 1252172161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252172184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wasn't aware C functions could throw exceptions < 1252172201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's for compiling C with -fexceptions. < 1252172216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would the point of THAT be... < 1252172218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you may need to enable this option when compiling C code that needs to interoperate properly with exception handlers written in C++" < 1252172240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel I should really repeat the above line :P < 1252172302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, heh, it's in the cdefs.h header too: "For gcc 3.2 and up we even mark C functions as non-throwing using a function attribute since programs can use the -fexceptions options for C code as well." < 1252172320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it how the comment says "for gcc 3.2 and up" while the actual test is __GNUC_PREREQ (3, 3). < 1252172418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The system headers are always so messy. < 1252172428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, much less so on freebsd though < 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* These two macros are not used in glibc anymore. They are kept here < 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : only because some other projects expect the macros to be defined. */ < 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __P(args) args < 1252172432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __PMT(args) args < 1252172437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes the GNU ones are < 1252172453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess those are related to prototypes somehow < 1252172486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think people do wrap arguments in a __P() so it can be defined empty if you want to omit them. < 1252172494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what __PMT is for. < 1252172499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __ptr_t void * < 1252172499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __long_double_t long double < 1252172502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252172506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc ate the comment above < 1252172508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* This is not a typedef so `const __ptr_t' does the right thing. */ < 1252172510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it < 1252172518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that explains the first, but not the second < 1252172553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably so that "unsigned __long_double_t" will work. :p < 1252172581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw what would the const do if it was a typedef < 1252172593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the actual variable itself const rather than the pointed to value? < 1252172599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252172630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the whole "hide a pointer in typedef" thing anyway. < 1252172634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any way to make the actual pointer const if you don't want to use a typedef? Err would it be something like void* const? < 1252172661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously hate how C types are defined < 1252172700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, void* const foo; would be it, I think. < 1252172710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay now ICC is just getting damn silly. It errors that while(true) is an infinite loop.... < 1252172715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl> explain void* const foo; < 1252172715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare foo as const pointer to void < 1252172725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has it never heard of main loops? < 1252172735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (;;) < 1252172750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same error, I just checked < 1252172758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a reasonable error to me < 1252172761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is in -diag-enable c3 < 1252172763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1252172796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really, because when written like that it is usually intended. And it doesn't need a strong AI to detect. After all GCC does it. < 1252172805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put it on super-pedantic mode < 1252172818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're an idiot and do that when you don't want it to be super pedantic < 1252172820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit's your fault. < 1252172825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but the pedanticness should make sense IMO :P < 1252172829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does. < 1252173254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C++ you can write "const void *foo" and "void const *foo" and they mean the same thing; I *think* you can do the same in C too, though my version of cdecl doesn't understand the latter. < 1252173306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... Is it trying to make C not-TC? :P < 1252173328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, err you must have misunderstood what I was suggesting < 1252173330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, you can, in C. < 1252173354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not that C is TC without file IO. ;P < 1252173380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(true); -- Getting rid of that means no TC < 1252173391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, never suggested that. It was ICC who did < 1252173397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/who/that/ < 1252173408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure it is. Via an annoying isomorphism with lambda calculus. :P < 1252173414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in fact the case was while(true) { blah blah } < 1252173429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you have limited memory since size of size_t must be finite < 1252173438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(specific implementations are not; damned finite stack) < 1252173495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in fact it is defined that sizeof(void*) must be finite. < 1252173526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't just "no implementation is TC" here. (because that is true for every language then) < 1252173551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, sure. But not everything on the stack needs to be within that finite memory space. < 1252173566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x; < 1252173567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&x < 1252173610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Since C is not dynamic, one need not worry about making everything addressable. Just everything that's addressed. < 1252173619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x; < 1252173625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1252173628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, um yes < 1252173630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1252173639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{int x$N} * sizeof(int*)+1 < 1252173649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{&x$N} * sizeof(int*)+1 < 1252173651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now, bitch < 1252173674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, since you can take an an address of anything on stack and pass it on to callees < 1252173690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, of course, cannot be done infinitely. Fortunately, that's not needed for Turing completeness. < 1252173696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that is not what he said < 1252173702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: C is not TC, man. < 1252173710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has been proved, more or less. < 1252173739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It has functions and a call stack of potentially infinite size. < 1252173745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1252173749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That call stack must be pointerable. < 1252173755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also iirc it is valid to do something like: int i, j; int* base = &i; ssize_t diff = &j - &i; and then use base+diff to access j < 1252173757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then GCC does not implement C. < 1252173759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Besides, functions are not enough. < 1252173764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to PASS functions. < 1252173764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that is probably gray-zone < 1252173767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those functions must be POINTERS. < 1252173771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and POINTERS are of finite size. < 1252173784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Okay, that's a much better argument. < 1252173784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You DO have to pass functions for the LC) < 1252173789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read: not a non-sequitur) < 1252173851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is probably TC if you include the file IO though... iirc. < 1252173862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly not < 1252173862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1252173870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If given an infinite filesystem. < 1252173901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suspect it isn't. Files are seekable. the offset in files is of the type off_t, which is also finite. There is a finite number of filenames you can fit into memory (since memory is finite) < 1252173922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use files of 1-byte. < 1252173933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fopen("swap489573495834985739498732814683779831647842672645678926587932645","w") < 1252173943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? how would that help. < 1252173945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc filenames are finite < 1252173951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't need infinitely large files < 1252173960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course not < 1252173969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need infinite number of files then < 1252173980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's been shown that the C file io is tc < 1252174005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not possible if there is a finite number of possible filenames. < 1252174014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fine. link? < 1252174019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just "infinite number of possible filenames in memory". < 1252174032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do a tape with an infinite-depth chain of subdirectories, and move around it with chdir. < 1252174038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1252174044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, index files pointing to new and old filenames < 1252174048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can drop them from memory < 1252174058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would work, but then you mean C + POSIX iirc < 1252174064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not pure C with file IO < 1252174115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C standard describes no such thing as "directory" < 1252174124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :files yes, but not directories < 1252174149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn. < 1252174162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good night < 1252174179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that mean you're leaving? Say yes. < 1252174186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought you were < 1252174197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "yawn" means "I am leaving now". < 1252174224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought it was "yawn, I'm feeling sleepy, see you tomorrow" < 1252174556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw I found out why ICC produced a binary for cfunge that was more than twice as slow as that gcc produced (on mycology that is)... < 1252174593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hiding some attributes ICC didn't understand from it. When I hide those from GCC too... ICC and GCC are exactly even. < 1252174653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news is that last version of ICC now support them. And with those visible to ICC... ICC and GCC are exactly even but at the much shorter time. < 1252174671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So did it take 0.006 instead of 0.003s < 1252174691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 0.160 vs 0.029 < 1252174698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So SLOW! < 1252174724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, relatively yes... < 1252174743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agree or disagree: 'If [the 80386] were an unencumbered design, it would have had a 32-bit "word", but as an extension of the 8086, its "word" continued to be considered as 16 bits.' < 1252174751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Agree in what way < 1252174757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it factually true? Should it have been that way? < 1252174775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, more than 5 times as slow. When you look at it that way, the difference is very large < 1252174776 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it true that most people consider the x86's word 16 bits < 1252174782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, is it? < 1252174796 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never considered it 16 bits for the 32- or 64-bit machines < 1252174803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess it isn't? < 1252174811 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not most people < 1252174824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it 16-bit < 1252174829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wikipedia article that's from and a comment in the discussion suggests that most people do, in fact, consider it 16-bit < 1252174835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I guess this is mainly about the DOS/windows world, where int32_t is known as DWORD < 1252174836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: See the quote. < 1252174839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which stands for double word < 1252174841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not helpful < 1252174843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252174845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know about "most people", but GDB considers "word" to be 32 bits; for example x/1w dumps out 32 bits; 16 bits is a half-word. < 1252174846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, that's one place where it is like that. < 1252174862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the entire windows API yes < 1252174872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1252174909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, the official assembly mnemonics have several cases of things like stos{b,w,d,q} with 16-bit word, 32-bit dword and 64-bit qword. < 1252174928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT&T, yes. < 1252174933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think it is used a lot on linux (the term word that is) < 1252174942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And actually those Intel ones too, yes. < 1252174963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stos[bwdq] being one of the few that comes with a size < 1252174976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does stos* do now again < 1252174984 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, everybody's a C programmer so they just talk about size_t ;-) < 1252174991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stores al/ax/eax/rax into di/edi/rdi. < 1252174995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stores a byte at ... yeah < 1252175005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, stosb does. < 1252175016 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Th others store more than a byte. :-P < 1252175019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well win32 api is C iirc < 1252175022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, and I guess there's some segment selector involved too, I don't remember which one. < 1252175024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1252175047 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite, but they're like OpenGL in that they decided to make their own integer types for everything. < 1252175052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait what... isn't that same as mov eax,edi? < 1252175071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it also increments edi. < 1252175075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the suitable number. < 1252175077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252175083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, define suitable < 1252175090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of bytes in the thing you put there. < 1252175099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 for stosb, 2 for stosw, 4 for stosd, 8 for stosq. < 1252175100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It decrements it if DF = 1. < 1252175108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... what use is this < 1252175110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's also a direction flag you can set or clear. < 1252175110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1252175121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: memset: rep stosb < 1252175122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? It's the fast way to do memset, for one thing. < 1252175124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. < 1252175135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rep stosb. < 1252175138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it still the fast way, I wonder. < 1252175140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like an alien tongue! < 1252175144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: unlikely < 1252175148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's *a* fast way anyway. < 1252175159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nah, libc one uses SIMD nowdays < 1252175167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc* < 1252175167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*glibc < 1252175170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: <3 < 1252175171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252175177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252175203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the AMD "Architecture Programmer's Manual" defines "word" as "Two bytes, or 16 bits." < 1252175219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's certainly common; I'm sure you could add a [citation needed] for the "most people" part. < 1252175224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would rep stosb work... wouldn't it just be mov eax,edi followed by substracting 2 from edi? forever < 1252175225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but AMD is an asian knock-off company that uses child labor. < 1252175228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't trust them. < 1252175230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make sense < 1252175235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rep" decrements ecx/rcx. < 1252175237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at cpu docs < 1252175238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they do, since then they can say "stosw moves a word" < 1252175264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also deliberately disable Intel's security features. < 1252175273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not quote from a manual you can buy in stores? < 1252175293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you meant edi is used as an adress < 1252175299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it is moved to edi < 1252175310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course. < 1252175311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Stores al/ax/eax/rax into di/edi/rdi. < 1252175316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well wasn't clear from that < 1252175320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1252175340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I was assuming an AI-complete reader. < 1252175358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, burn < 1252175377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They also deliberately disable Intel's security features. <-- I can't even imagine how you thought of that... < 1252175390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :P < 1252175393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, it's true. Don't tell me you've been deceived, AnMaster. < 1252175414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To wit: < 1252175420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[If your son has requested a new "processor" from a company called "AMD", this is genuine cause for alarm. AMD is a third-world based company who make inferior, "knock-off" copies of American processor chips. They use child labor extensively in their third world sweatshops, and they deliberately disable the security features that American processor makers, such as Intel, use to prevent hacking. AMD chips are never sold in stores, and you will most likely be < 1252175420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you have to order them from internet sites.]] < 1252175422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have no idea what you are talking about simply. What security feature to be specific? < 1252175422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html < 1252175444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^add told to the cut off line < 1252175461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "btold" ? < 1252175470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The clog line ends with "be". < 1252175475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does my line. < 1252175477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one here doesn't < 1252175478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1252175495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it didn't send \r and your client stripped off the last two chars. < 1252175504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The line here ends with "b" too. Strange. < 1252175511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly, I'm on xchat atm < 1252175550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the bip bouncer log line ends with "-- likely b", that's curious too. < 1252175571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did we find an off-by-one bug in various software? :-P < 1252175577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't do my logging in znc so can't check there < 1252175578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite so! < 1252175581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By accident! < 1252175583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suspect it may be server side < 1252175598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, then it's some server that routed it that failed < 1252175605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm. < 1252175608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suspect that server name may be included < 1252175614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think it might be the ident-message-prefix thing. < 1252175615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1252175618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It adds at least a + there. < 1252175618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which means if the server happens to have a long name... < 1252175623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, cool < 1252175624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes that < 1252175630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are IRC lines limited anyway < 1252175630 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The what now? < 1252175632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes my client activates that feature too < 1252175632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And xchat toggles that feature on. < 1252175637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from bullshit historical reasons < 1252175655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's a freenode thing which you can toggle on which makes the server prefix a + to messages from identified-to-nickserv people, and a - to others. < 1252175666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1252175667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess neither clog nor whatever client Deewiant uses implements that feature < 1252175670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: With the intention that it'll be easy to see no-one's the faking. < 1252175676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPAB IDENTIFY-MSG or something, was it. < 1252175717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is rather useful in irc bots. Make sure the user is really identified without having to do a whois after. for authentication with the irc bot < 1252175728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whois could potentially have race conditions too < 1252175744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use name like a real man, I'm sure nobody will /nick name and then !system rm -rf / < 1252175746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's very widespread feature to have by-default, but of course there's an Irssi script. < 1252175773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine: Evil guy sends message, gets ghosted by real nick owner, bot sends whois, real nick owner identifies, server replies to whois, bot allows evil command < 1252175817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think I seen any other irc server than Hyperion implementing the feature. < 1252175850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why are IRC lines limited anyway Apart from bullshit historical reasons <-- for bullshit historical reasons < 1252175863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why do current servers abide by this limit < 1252175869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc there are clients that crash on overly long lines. < 1252175876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck them < 1252175885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets() for the win < 1252175889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, NOTABUG (no I don't agree with this) < 1252175891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rcfunge still has that in < 1252175893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, quite < 1252175899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I checked that it doesn't ever call the function that uses it < 1252175904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252175910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, evil dead code? < 1252175914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just there for the linker warning < 1252175922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just some helper function intended for gdb call? < 1252175932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1252175941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, RCFunge 2's code is better, isn't it? < 1252175950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Better" in what way < 1252175956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit more modular, I guess < 1252175967 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it has to wrap everything in a struct for MVRS to work < 1252175971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really, it was trivial to crash it iirc < 1252175996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every software has bugs < 1252175997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that was some rc. Haven't tried any "stable" version of it < 1252176017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well trivial as in providing a command line argument but no file or something like that < 1252176020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1252176023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all < 1252176024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./rcfunge --help < 1252176025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1252176036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's sort of low down on the things I'd write if I was writing my own option parser code for an unstable version < 1252176056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, want to hear why it crashed? < 1252176062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1252176068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more or less filename = argv[argc-1]; < 1252176083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it checked that there was at least one argument < 1252176097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow that ended up crashing it if it started with a - < 1252176103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such a file didn't exist < 1252176111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, most people write a command line interface that they can use for testing when using an unstable release < 1252176125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd concentrate on e.g. the funge support, personally < 1252176128 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they? I don't < 1252176141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they're the kind to write their own command line parsers. < 1252176149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1252176161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rc/funge doesn't run on windows iirc. So there is no reason to not use getopt() just as well. < 1252176162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because Tango didn't have one, though, but anyway < 1252176168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, disproof by sample size of 1 < 1252176177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly! < 1252176178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because getopt's interface is shit, for one < 1252176180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.instantrimshot.com < 1252176190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, getopt_long interface is yes < 1252176194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I JUST SEE A BLANK WHITE PAGE < 1252176198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And getopt < 1252176199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not getopt() < 1252176202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1252176206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is it shitty? < 1252176234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Duplication of naming the options < 1252176240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both the switch and getopt() < 1252176253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Incomprehensible suffixes like :, that look like options in themselves < 1252176263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolly others < 1252176266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -: isn't very common < 1252176279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant, in "bf:" : looks like an option < 1252176293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an unreadable DSL < 1252176295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when in a getopt string < 1252176297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you already know < 1252176299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is stupid < 1252176304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's arbitrary and unneeded < 1252176304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I find it readable < 1252176307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"+bEFfhSs:t:VvW" < 1252176308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1252176314 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fuck? < 1252176324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, AnMaster? < 1252176328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that meant to be a counterargument? < 1252176335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks almost as bad as J < 1252176338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, of course it is readable. F: means it F takes an argument < 1252176345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HEY NOW. < 1252176345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1252176349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it easy to read < 1252176356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J is WAY worse < 1252176357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :-) < 1252176419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only issue here is that + means: "hey you! yes I mean you getopt of glibc! Follow POSIX today or else!" < 1252176422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9's argument parsing is better < 1252176429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be a bit confusing < 1252176431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll draft up something that doesn't look ugly < 1252176449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it will be completely unlike J then? < 1252176467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J isn't unreadable just because you don't use \32. < 1252176498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, getopt's DSL isn't unreadable just because it doesn't use \32 either < 1252176516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. It's unreadable for entirely different reasons < 1252176523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as is J < 1252176527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. < 1252176538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is. If getopt's DSL is < 1252176546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because reading getopt's DSL is trivial < 1252176570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that the duplication in the switch statement is a small issue though < 1252176587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yawn. < 1252176636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you realise that saying J is readable and getopt's DSL isn't makes you a hypocrite? < 1252176643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :............. < 1252176658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1252176660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are so many logical flaws with my statement that I'd rather hit myself on the head with a baseball bat than try and rebut it. < 1252176691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But let's try with the first: "He thinks getopt is unreadable, I think J is unreadable, therefore he must think J is unreadable or he is a hypocrite". < 1252176699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? That doesn't logically follow at all? Oh my. < 1252176734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you seemed to be indicating that your opinion on getopt above was some sort of "universal truth" < 1252176743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to point out the flaw in this < 1252176754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by showing how absurd it is < 1252176778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN SOMEONE PLEASE KNOCK ME OUT? I'M BEING TOLD, YET AGAIN, TO PREFIX EVERY-FUCKING-THING I SAY WITH "IN MY OPINION"! < 1252176791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to hell. in my opinion. < 1252176800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a postfix, not a prefix. < 1252176827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It flows better. < 1252176830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. Both are allowed. You could even insert it in the middle for variation. < 1252176868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sed is unreadable unless you know it too < 1252176892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sing with me: Fallacy, fallacy, fallacy/Phallusy, phallusy, wait, what is this about again? < 1252177227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phallic. < 1252177242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phallusy. < 1252177272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getopt is a lot simpler to learn than J though. getopt DSL goes like: Every alphanumeric letter is a valid flag. : means the flag is supposed to have an argmuent. There is a few more things to it that aren't commonly used. But that is it. Oh and GNU adds a few other uncommon things. All of these uncommon things are about special meaning if first char of string is a non-alphanumeric char < 1252177327 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252177334 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252177335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I fail to see how that is hard to understand. < 1252177367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather the issue would be in how it reports what it found to the app. That is a bit more complex. < 1252177431 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i sum up an innumerable amount of positive real numbers, why is the sum necessarily infinite? < 1252177442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is: getopt returns found flag, any argument is put in the global variable optarg (indeed, getopt isn't thread safe). < 1252177456 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general sum of X is the supremum of all sums of finite subsets of X < 1252177461 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252177482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? means "unlisted flag" < 1252177510 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252177541 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean clearly you can't construct something like 0.5^-n for all n, because the decimal expansion needs to start having zeroes to its left, so you can find an injection to N by simply counting the zeroes... but that's very imprecise < 1252177545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll ask #math < 1252177560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, would you say that it is easy to understand that example I gave above knowing this? < 1252177570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you exist?????????? < 1252177590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh, sure it's presumably quite simple < 1252177595 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great idea taking a measure theory course with a background of one basic course in analysis < 1252177597 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252177603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I thought the point was more intuitiveness and such < 1252177623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything is intuitive if you can spend 5 minutes learning it! Yay! < 1252177638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look forward to the system where every call requires such explanation. < 1252177647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if the API was supposed to be intutive, why would we have man pages < 1252177662 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We wouldn't, now would we. < 1252177662 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: totally. < 1252177666 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just been kinda busy < 1252177672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, it's not like things called edge cases exist for most calls or anything < 1252177676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nosiree < 1252177682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly your plan results in the awful demise of man pages < 1252177697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it's easy to infer which arguments the order to go in and therefore your plan would obsolete them. < 1252177704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, calls shouldn't be intuitive. QED < 1252177710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well design some way to make it intutive to open a newly created file with user access only and fail if the file already exists < 1252177712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"which arguments the order to go in"? < 1252177718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in read-write mode < 1252177743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open("file name", USER_ACCESS_ONLY | FAIL_IF_EXISTS | READ_WRITE_MODE); < 1252177778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you would still need some place to document if it was FAILS_IF_EXISTS or FAIL_IF_EXISTING or similar < 1252177811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't ask me, I'm just trying to translate AnMaster's argument "If APIs were intuitive we wouldn't need man pages. Therefore getopt shouldn't be intuitive." < 1252177813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite, you still need documentation. But the difference here is that you can read the code and know what it does. < 1252177818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And failing massively as every clause of that sentence is stupid < 1252177872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in truth I think it is open("file name", O_EXCL | O_RDWR, S_IRWXU); < 1252177878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it isn't very intutive < 1252177883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRWXU <3 < 1252177883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to read man page even < 1252177892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I r wx u → I are with you < 1252177895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : S_IRWXU 00700 user (file owner) has read, write and execute permission < 1252177896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ I am with you < 1252177898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am with you <3 < 1252177906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wx = with? < 1252177911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'M NOT SURE AnMaster RECIPROCATES YOUR DESIRE < 1252177916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Write Execute < 1252177919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1252177922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoooooooooosh < 1252177927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, REALLY. < 1252177932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S_IRUSR <-- I R User? < 1252177933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEVER KNEW < 1252177944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users R Us! < 1252177971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "user has read permission" btw < 1252177972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users are not toys. < 1252177983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say Toys R Us < 1252177992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whooooooooooosh x 2 < 1252177998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though of course that is what I was referencing < 1252178018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scours thinkwiki for 4:3 thinkpads < 1252178021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR may be saner for most temp files < 1252178030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you wanted good battery time? < 1252178038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, they're worth a look < 1252178042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't know if you can find new batteries for old computers < 1252178051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can....... < 1252178059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, (I are user and I'm with user)? < 1252178061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apart from being initially worse, they also tend to get worse over time < 1252178068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1252178074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that like a... transformative masturbation fantasy? < 1252178075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT MAKES NO SENSE. < 1252178091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um sounds more like some kind of deep zen thing to me < 1252178097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As if < 1252178101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the cosmic flow or such < 1252178121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem: < 1252178133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If *I* was in charge of the DL's computer, I wouldn't put on *only* Linux or *only* Windows or what have you. I think the DL needs a multiboot machine, and would really appreciate it if you tried to make him one with everything." < 1252178135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant your "translation" of it < 1252178158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, DL's? < 1252178162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dalai Lama < 1252178165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252178166 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, one guy on #math says what i ask doesn't make sense, other says what i'm trying to prove is true < 1252178167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252178171 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking useless < 1252178177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is useless < 1252178178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN BED < 1252178183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KarZING < 1252178195 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is useless getting fucked? < 1252178200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1252178201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:240 ;; This looks good! < 1252178211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High-res, no less. < 1252178217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you want 4:3 btw < 1252178225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I thought you disliked non-widescreen < 1252178240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:00 A 14" 4:3 notebook is the same width as a 12" 16:10 notebook and quite a bit taller... < 1252178241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:01 (+ prolly less bezel than a 12"; e.g. look at the X200's) < 1252178241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:07 = more screen space while fitting on my lap < 1252178250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252178254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, # Intel Mobile Celeron 300, 366 or 400 CPU < 1252178255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252178257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For big screens, yes, I prefer 16:10 < 1252178276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the extra height is mostly useless, and you can have 4:3 things side by side < 1252178280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neomagic MagicGraph128XD < 1252178282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean 8:5 < 1252178287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's amused at its obsolescence. < 1252178305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also a special card JUST TO DISPLAY GRAPHS! < 1252178316 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after telling me the definition doesn't make sense, the guy asks "what's a supermum" < 1252178319 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*supernum < 1252178321 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252178324 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no supermum right < 1252178325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is 10.4"? < 1252178326 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supremum* < 1252178329 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just... sounded like supermom < 1252178329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super mum. < 1252178337 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, but that was a quote < 1252178340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supernun < 1252178342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252178342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Up to 12GB hard drive, bitch < 1252178350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it was, wasn't it. < 1252178358 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yesn't it < 1252178359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought nun's weren't supposed to me mum's? < 1252178365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/groan < 1252178373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also *be < 1252178381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but that would explain a lot about you :P < 1252178390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1252178435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your nu^H^Hmum < 1252178444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how the T43 and T43p differ < 1252178454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, by one letter < 1252178461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I stab you? < 1252178475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the latter has a different gfx card < 1252178481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And moar RAM by default < 1252178492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But both support up to 2GB maximum < 1252178503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those Pentium Ms must run hot < 1252178516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T60 looks shiny; Core 2 Duo, even. < 1252178523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"14.1" TFT display with 1400x1050 resolution" < 1252178526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that's some dpi. < 1252178545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 124. Still. < 1252178557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"512 MB or 1 GB PC2-5300 memory standard upgradable to 4 GB1" < 1252178579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks nice. Quite heavy though; 2.45-2.5kg for the 9-cell on the 14" and the 6-cell probably sucks. < 1252178606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a t60p that only has the higher resolution and I don't know what else. Oh, it has that ATI card. < 1252178612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess p meant "discrete graphics". < 1252178616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and higher specs" < 1252178623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, higher base specs < 1252178623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1252178673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, an issue with all these is that they'll be second hand, and I doubt most ThinkPad owners are terribly careful with 'em... < 1252178701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, The T60 gains a windows key at the expense of fn/control/alt becoming smaller < 1252178704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1252178735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ThinkPad T60 under review is a 15.0" variety with an SXGA+ (1400 x 1050) and has what Lenovo calls "FlexView" technology to provide very wide viewing angles" < 1252178741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if I could find a 14" with that < 1252178752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wonder how many nits they have) < 1252178767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Experiences may differ with a 14" size screen, there is no FlexView offering on that screen size." < 1252178768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'aww < 1252178849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the 9-cell battery with the T60 being reviewed. It adds a bit of weight over the standard 6-cell and sticks out but if you want close to 4 hours of battery life with the 15" screen model you'll need this size. In using the T60 without Wi-Fi and at medium brightness (3rd notch of 7) it got 3 hours 42 minutes of battery life when used lightly (typing review, or idling). You can expect to get over 3 hours with Wi-Fi on and finishing a DVD with the 9-cell < 1252178849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :battery shouldn't be a problem, well, unless it's Lord of the Rings. < 1252178849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T60 14" screen size will do much better in terms of time of battery life per cell because a smaller screen just drains less battery. My guess is the 6-cell battery for the T60 14" will get you about what the 9-cell battery does for the 15" -- again, that's just a mildly educated guess. < 1252178851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1252178867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could expect like 5-6 hours with the 9 cell on the 14" < 1252178870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't bad at all < 1252178896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/9340.gif ;; clever interface! < 1252178917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Runs cool and quiet, no overheating issues even with a fast processor and dedicated video card" < 1252178929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T60 sure looks appealing < 1252178929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not bad, but I always thought it was a bit pointless versus just a sorted list < 1252178949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's much easier to see which networks have a better signal < 1252178959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it can happen unconsciously, instead of looking at a meter < 1252178969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Than from a list where the top one is the best and the worse are below? < 1252178978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't give you an idea of scale < 1252178987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1252178988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., you might think the Levkoff Network is only slightly worse than the belkin54g < 1252178990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, does it matter? < 1252179005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it affects the speed < 1252179013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but does anybody care < 1252179025 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you'll try from fastest to next-fastest anyway < 1252179028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or? < 1252179032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to show it, might as well < 1252179037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't hurt < 1252179047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14.1" - starting at 2.17kg/2.34kg (4.8 lb/5.2 lb) < 1252179054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could bring that down by replacing with an SSD < 1252179099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're much lighter than HDDs? < 1252179103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252179114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A double-platter notebook HD is, like, 400g < 1252179119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single-platter, say 200g < 1252179124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An SSD is roughly 80g < 1252179186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How very noticeable, 200g versus 80g :-P < 1252179224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sure. < 1252179276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Combine with e.g. removing the optical drive < 1252179297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which weighs what, another 80g? :-P < 1252179340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, more like 200g, I'd say < 1252179361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 2.02kg vs 2.34kg is definitely noticable < 1252179371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Albeit only slightly, but still < 1252179373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. :-P < 1252179386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking about grabbing with one hand and putting on your lap, small differences are quite noticeable, I'd say < 1252179451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One issue with old notebooks is that they generally don't do wireless draft-n < 1252179460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have ExpressCard slots too, so that's easily fixable. < 1252179462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that with my evidently-3 kg R60 just fine; I honestly don't think weight matters that much < 1252179478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least unless you want 3g wireless too < 1252179481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5+ kg is probably the annoyance point < 1252179484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It does, IMO < 1252179498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, psychologically, not physically < 1252179520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say dimensions matter more, psychologically < 1252179557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean the threshold of deciding whether to take it with you, for instance. < 1252179566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a reason a lot of people buying the 1.36kg MacBook Air (after using, say, a 2.27kg MacBook - same dimensions) say "This is the first notebook I've come across that feels like I can carry it everywhere all day" < 1252179574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not making it up, I've read two things saying that, at least) < 1252179588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could claim it's the thinness, I guess :P < 1252179594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's that they're Mac-people. :-P < 1252179602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly :P < 1252179641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm enough of a geek that I'd take just about any notebook anywhere with me, though. :P < 1252179657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, :P < 1252179683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P is my most-used emoticon, I think < 1252179696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because I can't think of anything else that really means "ha ha only serious" or whatever. < 1252179700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You broke the :-?P chain. < 1252179711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1252179719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think :P tends to be used to mean "If I say this jokingly it seems bad but I don't want to present it as untrue" < 1252179731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, I guess, meshes with a sort of social-acceptability "ha ha only serious". < 1252179782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the R-series is quite amusing; for the budget line they're not very, well, budget. < 1252179790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(belated reaction to "R60") < 1252179818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were budget? :-P < 1252179830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still exists, but yes, they're the "cost-cutting" budget line. < 1252179841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., heavier, thicker, and a few hundred dollars lighter. < 1252179858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "lighter" was a thinko < 1252179861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like it that way < 1252179908 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252179929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reverses entropy; * calamari is now known as squid < 1252179950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, "hi" < 1252179953 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird :) < 1252180573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252181746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re the wlan-finding UI, there was that bluetooth pairing screen in some mobile: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/08/31/samsung-rogues-bluetooth-setup-will-be-second-nature-to-air-tra/ < 1252181782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, on a mobile there's rather less space to do that non-stupidly. < 1252181839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Bluetooth is so slow it hardly matters. < 1252181843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "list" doesn't really look very space-efficient to me. < 1252181852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which < 1252181882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in that link, with the only-five-characters-shown icons all around. < 1252181890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1252181909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Linutop 3, sporting a custom Linux OS atop a blistering 1GHz VIA C7 CPU, 1GB of RAM and a tremendously capacious 2GB SSD, is just that sort of machine." < 1252181921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, uh, faster and has more storage space than my £150 crapbook. < 1252181924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since the distances don't conform to anything; at least the wlan thing has the signal strenght. < 1252181928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray? < 1252181948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, well that's just useless < 1252181962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fun facct: That "Linutop" costs a whole damn $485) < 1252181964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fact < 1252181997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the local PC magazine reviewed Linutop in the newest issue. < 1252182025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My review: It's crap and I can tell you this despite having not even used it. < 1252182035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Experiences may differ with a 14" size screen, there is no FlexView offering on that screen size." <-- what is wrong with a 15"? < 1252182048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it is a perfectly reasonable size < 1252182057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Quite a lot heavier, and no, no it's not < 1252182067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everyone has a gigantic lap < 1252182068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did a comparison of Apple Mac mini, Asus Eee Box, CompuLab Fit-PC2 and Linutop 2. < 1252182071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, lower battery life < 1252182073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc, etc, etc < 1252182084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you cal 15" gigantic. Then what do you call 17"? < 1252182087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call* < 1252182100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17" is a stupid lugbook. < 1252182110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mac mini vs Linutop? < 1252182123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of like David and Goliath, except Goliath is awesome and David sucks cocks. < 1252182123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, linutop? < 1252182124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They're both physically small. :p < 1252182138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster continues to pioneer context-free IRC clients. < 1252182142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, the Linutop is smaller. < 1252182154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Linutop 3 isn't. < 1252182160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was away for quite a bit above < 1252182162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/09/4sep09_linuto3.jpg < 1252182173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster also continues to pioneer IRC clients that insert a blank line every second < 1252182179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's that big. < 1252182198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Linutop operating system is stored on an internal flash memory and cannot be altered by virus or mishap." < 1252182199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mishap. < 1252182208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I'm too busy (read: can't be arsed) to read much of the scrollback < 1252182222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mbnet.fi/nettijatkot/2009/08/minikoneet/ (in Finnish) has, in the first picture, their set of reviewables. < 1252182235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes a true blend of asshole to ask people to scroll up a few times for them < 1252182249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE FUCK GOOGLE'S TOP BAR IS GONE < 1252182250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAARGH < 1252182261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't switch to image search in a click any more... < 1252182274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not gone for me here, at the very least. < 1252182281 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gone for me :( < 1252182282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um not gone here < 1252182285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try refreshing the page < 1252182288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch to international google, retards < 1252182297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I am using .com one < 1252182300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here. < 1252182305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then geoip. < 1252182310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. < 1252182314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or one of their sample things. < 1252182317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AB testing and the like. < 1252182330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck synergy... again < 1252182343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has any holes. < 1252182350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=iw#hl=en&q=google < 1252182351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1252182354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar there for me < 1252182357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck UK ;P < 1252182368 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252182377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any holes outside the UK would be far too big, I think. < 1252182386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, holes? < 1252182389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1252182404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway synergy seriously messes up copy and paste < 1252182409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that it is nice < 1252182419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Extra bonus jokes: EVIDENTLY HANDS AREN'T THE ONLY HUGE FEATURE OF SWEDISH ANATOMY.) < 1252182422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*joke < 1252182433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252182460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah it's true. I guess we can't hide it any more. But we do have huge brains. < 1252182477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of neurons and such < 1252182485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that's as much a "but" as an "also". < 1252182497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gramatically? maybe < 1252182507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammatically* < 1252182529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in fact, dropping "but" may be the best way < 1252182534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not adding also < 1252182548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean meaningly < 1252182558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But we do have tiny brains." would work < 1252182565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not "But we do have huge brains." < 1252182581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, yeah it's true. I guess we can't hide it any more: We do have huge brains. < 1252182583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1252182592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also doesn't make sense. < 1252182611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure does. It is the other thing (apart from hands) that are huge < 1252182615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you mentioned yourself < 1252182629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, true. < 1252182637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I'd be inclined to say whoosh. < 1252182658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, whooshing yourself? < 1252182671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Google top-bar "more ▼" link has an "even more »" option; reminds me of some interface-hall-of-shame GetRight Properties -> "Advanced"-tab -> "More"-button -> "Protocol / Icons / More / Even More" set of tabs. < 1252182673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for not realising that I continued your joke in an unexpected direction < 1252182686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have to do a lot of yoga to be able to whoosh yourself. < 1252182697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sounds awesome < 1252182731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woosh is this ringh-shaped frisbee; from the Koosh people. < 1252182732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would seem like there's a much easier method to the same result most of the time. < 1252182760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ringh? < 1252182790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would be true in general of yoga I suspect < 1252182799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I originally wrote "ringh-shabed", and my wetware can only fix one typo per word. < 1252182810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm going to go ahead here and say whoosh < 1252182825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric is ringh-shabed http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1252182825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't - make it count as multiple words? < 1252182865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just spaces count. Sorry, my language output module is pretty limited. < 1252182894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like a (possibly) advanced version of fungot? < 1252182894 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shall we get back to the present? he's been known. we reptites will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place... < 1252182906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1252182906 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1252182909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ct? < 1252182913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously Chrono Trigger. < 1252182914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrono Trigger. < 1252182921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3 < 1252182921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must not have played it if you had to ask ^style. < 1252182922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "obviously?" < 1252182925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles for this term < 1252182936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chrono Trigger" that is < 1252182940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means a type of trigger. < 1252182942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a gun, you see. < 1252182946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes the sound "chrono". < 1252182953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's a movie about tigers. < 1252182956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tigers that can talk. < 1252182956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... < 1252182957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought it makes it shoots cronons. < 1252182962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That also. < 1252182968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um google seems to indicate it is a snes game? < 1252182971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a movie < 1252182972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1252182980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a game adaptation; it's old enough. < 1252182982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it about tigers? < 1252182992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to Kenya, we've got lions. < 1252182996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, can they talk? < 1252183005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ha! A quote from the sequel, Chrono Wossname. < 1252183010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think. < 1252183037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252183037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably. The quotation generator just returns the output; no multiple return values in *my* brain. < 1252183047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for nintendo ds too < 1252183055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, is there any DS emulator? < 1252183059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Playstation port, too. < 1252183065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, there are multiple DS emulators. < 1252183067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are DS emulators. Many. < 1252183070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any good game? < 1252183071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <3 again < 1252183074 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1252183078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about Wii emulators? < 1252183078 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenC2E should be able to run DS *watches ehird kill him* < 1252183083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon we'll have to gay marry, what with all this <3ing. < 1252183084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DS bootstrap < 1252183105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need a Wii emulator if you have a functioning bladder. < 1252183107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DeSmuME is I guess the sensible open-source one; I have no clue what it's game compatibility is. < 1252183110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, happy marry xmas? < 1252183113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dolphin-emu.com/news.php ;; wii emulator < 1252183116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1252183121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what? < 1252183138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, thanks. < 1252183139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said happy marry < 1252183148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, for what? < 1252183149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DeSmuME's probably best feature is that it provides the GDB stub thing; you can attach GDBs for the ARM 7 and ARM 9 into it. < 1252183149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. < 1252183238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tr.froup.com/tr806.gif < 1252183241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, ^ < 1252183255 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though there's also No$gba (it does GBA and DS both) which they say is good for debugging; but that one is a Windows thing and costs money. < 1252183264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, err what has that got to do with the meaning I used the word "duck" in < 1252183267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No$gba is free. < 1252183271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just put the free download link below. < 1252183278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tr.froup.com/tr794.gif < 1252183282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, nothing in particular < 1252183288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1252183293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, the free version has less features. < 1252183306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the free one is the "for gamers" one. < 1252183323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gamers? More like gaymers. < 1252183326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "for debugging" one has a $15 shareware home-use version, but it had some sort of silly restriction, can't remember what. < 1252183332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THEY'RE GAY. < 1252183354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm glad to hear they are happy. < 1252183364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that joke got tired in 1960 < 1252183366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth < 1252183372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes insert obvious joke about "glad" there) < 1252183382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great gladsby < 1252183392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ooh that one I didn't think of :D < 1252183460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsby:_Champion_of_Youth is, incidentally, rather uncomfortable to read. < 1252183477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ever read the great gatsby? < 1252183483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+/- spelling) < 1252183489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, actually. < 1252183493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say it is rather tedious < 1252183499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to read it in school a few years ago < 1252183508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some English course or such < 1252183509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atlas Shrugged is tediouser! < 1252183526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, haven't heard of that one < 1252183528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially that speech, I hear the first part of it lasts 8 minutes when spoken or something < 1252183533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ayn Rand's crazyfest. < 1252183552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Summary: http://www.angryflower.com/atlass.gif < 1252183588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had to read Anthem at school < 1252183596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sue them for destroying your brain < 1252183602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This applies equally well to any bad programming course) < 1252183606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anthem? < 1252183618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another Rand book. < 1252183659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'd get a nickel for any bad programming course I've been on, I'd probably have spent them already. < 1252183681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252183697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't really know how to distinguish good programming courses from bad ones < 1252183700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a nickel for every time I've accidentally bungee jumped I'd be no better off < 1252183705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What language? < 1252183725 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, various. Or are you saying that that's the criterion? < 1252183730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What languages < 1252183742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if I had a nickel for every time I argued with you I'd have at least $100 by now < 1252183756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java and C++ so far < 1252183769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SQL, though that's not really programming < 1252183780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure we've argued 2000 times < 1252183784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some Javascript in the Java course *facepalm* < 1252183786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Almost certainly sucks < 1252183786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ALICE < 1252183788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1252183789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks < 1252183808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1252183813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah probably more. < 1252183822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ isn't in the same course with Java+Javascript+ALICE) < 1252183833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C++ course has a slight chance of not sucking. < 1252183837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one is brain-melting. < 1252183851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I survived < 1252183862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But goo is leaking from your ears. < 1252183866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's why you ask a lot of stupid questions :P < 1252183866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And iirc, was the only one to get a good score on the AP < 1252183913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP? Access Point? < 1252183921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advanced placement, isn't it? < 1252183924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that, anyway. < 1252183925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess your laptop has good antennas then < 1252183942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they group course grades by wlan access points. < 1252183949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, HEY! wait with explaining until after I finished my joke < 1252183989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 minutes until I clean < 1252183991 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252184009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw I noticed recently at university my thinkpad has a lot better antennas than most other notebooks. Except those with pre-N. < 1252184037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're generally wrapped all over the plac.e < 1252184039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*place. < 1252184055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? There are some parts of some of the houses that have bad coverage < 1252184063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPad antennas. < 1252184091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well one of them which couldn't connect had an older non-pre-N thinkpad. < 1252184105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1252184113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he had one of those 9-cell batteries < 1252184121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really looks awkward < 1252184137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Eh, I don't need more range than 1 small building. < 1252184150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use 3G internet for everywhere else. < 1252184158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Howso < 1252184192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well maybe it differs nowdays, but it was sticking out about 4 cm, and not straight out but more like __// < 1252184193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've come across anything else than Scheme, C, C++, Java, Python, Prolog, MATLAB and some MIPS assembler on university courses. Well, except a really tiny bit of PL/SQL, and Sparc assembler on the compiler course since that was the target arch. It's been so very boring and mainstream. < 1252184195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean < 1252184203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where that should have been _/ in fact < 1252184222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ThinkPad was this? < 1252184237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it doesn't matter when you have it plonked somewhere does it? < 1252184284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one marked IBM. Don't remember exact model. Looked similar to mine though, slightly smaller, and had card reader below single PC-card slot on the side (instead of two express card slots on the side and a card reader a bit below the touchpad < 1252184285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1252184307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :widescreen? < 1252184342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, think so < 1252184347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A random, rather-obvious observation: Erroneously spatial interfaces are even more noticeable on notebooks. < 1252184355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 16:10 < 1252184366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*8:4 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. < 1252184366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not 16:9 < 1252184369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1252184376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no 16:9 ThinkPads < 1252184392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure? < 1252184413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. The only 16:9 notebooks are shitty consumer notebooks, likely with Blu-Ray and other antifeatures. < 1252184421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they are, without exception, glossy. < 1252184428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPads are business notebooks. < 1252184434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all matte. < 1252184450 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252184460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523. < 1252184464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1252184475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because one of the R500 models I looked at was 16:9 iirc... < 1252184484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1252184496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh maybe it was a non-R500 then. < 1252184498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1252184503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523 < 1252184512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, not a ThinkPad. < 1252184526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also there are thinkpads with blue-ray < 1252184533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of. < 1252184535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example that one with two screens < 1252184539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure. < 1252184542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be ordered with blue-ray < 1252184550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing about that contradicts what I said, though. < 1252184560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's a thinkpad. < 1252184567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes < 1252184581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at reading: < 1252184589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:00] ehird: Absolutely. The only 16:9 notebooks are shitty consumer notebooks, likely with Blu-Ray and other antifeatures. < 1252184614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it isn't 16:9, but still blu-ray < 1252184620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue* < 1252184628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Affirmation of the consequent < 1252184638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, it is "blu" < 1252184653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent < 1252184699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you mean it a 16:10 with blu-ray is ok? < 1252184723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bad notebooks have BluRay" != "BluRay means it's a bad notebook" < 1252184727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fallacy; not what I said; kthx. < 1252184737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right < 1252184744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tee hee: " A modem. - Make sure you get a so called 'WinModem'. These modems are enhanced to work better with Windows Millennium, and represent very good value for money.") < 1252184756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1252184767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw I think my laptop has a modem of some kind < 1252184782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, haven't seen it in lspci or anywhere else inside linux though < 1252184784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: where's that quote from? < 1252184787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.8.5.172749.2140.html < 1252184798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1252184803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note because people really mistake this: Adequacy is not serious. < 1252184804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that some joke site? < 1252184825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the famous "Is Your Son a Computer Hacker", like 90% of the comments take it seriously. < 1252184869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean: < 1252184879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252184906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD, Lunix, Debian and Mandrake are all versions of an illegal hacker operation system, invented by a Soviet computer hacker named Linyos Torovoltos, before the Russians lost the Cold War. It is based on a program called "xenix", which was written by Microsoft for the US government. These programs are used by < 1252184906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackers to break into other people's computer systems to steal credit card numbers. They may also be used to break into people's stereos to steal their music, < 1252184907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the "mp3" program. Torovoltos is a notorious hacker, responsible for writing many hacker programs, such as "telnet", which is used by hackers to connect to machines on the internet without using a telephone. < 1252184907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your son has undergone a sudden change in his style of dress, you may have a hacker on your hands. Hackers tend to dress in bright, day-glo colors. < 1252184910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may wear baggy pants, bright colored shirts and spiky hair dyed in bright colors to match their clothes. They may take to carrying "glow-sticks" and some wear pacifiers around their necks. < 1252184913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Popular hacker software includes "Comet Cursor", "Bonzi Buddy" and "Flash". < 1252184915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are just some choice quotes, so I really can't see how anyone can believe it. < 1252184922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, I think I fell for it the first time. < 1252184926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was young! < 1252184937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you... fell... for it? < 1252184939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1252184950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like almost everyone in the 10 pages of comments < 1252184956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very long pages too < 1252184971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the end I was seething. < 1252184995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what I'm asking is: joke site or lunatic? < 1252185001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joke, of course! < 1252185004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it is hard to tell the difference < 1252185006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I thought it was a lunatic years ago. < 1252185015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't ever think it was true, of course) < 1252185030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean... first time I saw that conservopedia (spelling?) I thought it was a joke site... < 1252185032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, troll, rather. < 1252185039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Half of the editors probably are < 1252185042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was making fun of extreme conservatives < 1252185045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the other half sees it and agrees with it < 1252185051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um, extreme? < 1252185058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty mainstream Republican party stuff in the US. < 1252185068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that is *very* fucking scary < 1252185075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, In the eyes of an European yes < 1252185089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in the UK, which is also quite right-wing, it's insane < 1252185105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and I think UK is pretty insane < 1252185108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... is there anywhere that's more right-wing on average than the US < 1252185115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: North Korea < 1252185127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that extreme right or extreme left, though? < 1252185148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, possibly it went past the point where you can see any difference < 1252185151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know economically, but it's pretty much pure fascism and oppression < 1252185155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it wraps around < 1252185160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is right-wing < 1252185165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't Sovjet that too? < 1252185171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252185171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: downtreading most of the populace is left-wing behaviour, though < 1252185172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1252185177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soviet in English right? < 1252185180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True < 1252185181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1252185184 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252185186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252185188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's add another direction: fuckedupwards. < 1252185206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From this we can conclude that North Korea and the Soviet Union were socially fuckedupwards on the left-right scale. < 1252185213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an extreme right-wing North Korea wouldn't train up massive armies; it would instead say everyone had to join the army or they'd get no pay < 1252185217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think I saw some political two-axis chart thingy some time ago < 1252185223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an attached web quiz < 1252185226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the political compass < 1252185228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's godo < 1252185229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good < 1252185231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes < 1252185233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm further left than Gandi :P < 1252185238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Gandhi < 1252185245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, further down in that chart too? < 1252185252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was that < 1252185257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot < 1252185258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was further left socially, dunno about economically < 1252185269 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..I think a MIDI of this song sounds much different than the actual song < 1252185281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not socialist or communist economically, I'm a filthy regulated capitalist < 1252185282 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any sort of fundamentialists => trouble. < 1252185287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I ended up further left for both parameters < 1252185307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You are a true thinker of this age for that stunning insight :P < 1252185311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Like all midis < 1252185314 0 :xfire35!n=xfire35@cpc2-pete3-0-0-cust800.pete.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252185322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1252185323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new person < 1252185324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run! < 1252185327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, pretty much given due to there being no vocals in MIDI. Well except possibly GM "Voice synth: Ah" or something like that < 1252185331 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the vocals in the actual song are masking the part of the melody that I like < 1252185333 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1252185350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35, hi < 1252185351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the MIDI on-hand though :( < 1252185369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what about that esolang using MIDI < 1252185373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there was several < 1252185377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the details < 1252185391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't xfire the name of a chat thing for games? < 1252185418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the name of a rather good gameshow here in the UK a few years ago, too < 1252185426 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, I like it though < 1252185451 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't just right-wing fundamentialists that are scary. Just e.g. watch some creationist videos... At worst they maintain that the Earth doesn't rotate and that Earth is the center of the universe... Scary. < 1252185458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, naturally. < 1252185465 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 6000 yrs old < 1252185482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The flat earth society, too < 1252185497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that implies geocentrism and non-rotational...ism. < 1252185516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most people in the flat earth society are just playing devil's advocate, to get people to think for themselves < 1252185518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: Anyway, hi, this is about programming languages not esotericism. < 1252185523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Most on the forums, yes. < 1252185528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The society itself is dead. < 1252185536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are the believers on the forum; they have their own subforum. < 1252185540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is downright scary. < 1252185561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35, are you here for esoteric programming languages or the other type? (If the latter you ended up in the wrong place) < 1252185567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pre-empted you. < 1252185573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh right you did < 1252185589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't even know what the other type is < 1252185594 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm here about the programming languages. I've made one on the wiki < 1252185601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, which one? < 1252185602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esotericism < 1252185608 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auo < 1252185618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252185630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auo is better than most first languages by far < 1252185638 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks :) < 1252185661 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the language of Sgeo, "asldf" means "Hello". There. Esoterica < 1252185669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed. < 1252185677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks quite ok < 1252185704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Funnily enough, that's as bad an esolang as it is esoterica < 1252185787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't all esoteric languages a sort of esoteric? Only those who've learned from somewhere know them < 1252185803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, all programming languages, come to think of it < 1252185803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that definition everything is esoteric < 1252185848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Math might not be. < 1252185868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh huh? People know maths without learning it? < 1252185904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mathematical concepts might be independently derived. Not the symbols, I guess. That's why I said "might not be" < 1252185917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything can be independently derived < 1252185937 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some languages don't have numbers or the concept of counting within them. < 1252186024 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the two esoteric langs I have come up with (I should describe them), neither has any concept of numbers nor arithmetic. < 1252186071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he means natural langs < 1252186082 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I did. < 1252186090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, langs based on ln()? < 1252186115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost time to clean < 1252186121 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go clean now < 1252186133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that sounds like an interesting esolang idea. Something based on logarithms < 1252186145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Sgeo notified us for those crucial settings < 1252186147 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't some natural languages have "one, two, many" or something like that? < 1252186148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*seconds < 1252186150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now to come up with something interesting for those ideas) < 1252186177 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is Polynesian tribes or something. < 1252186230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make a wifi router that gets its internet connection from a wifi-connected computer. < 1252186243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can e.g. share mobile internet at a meetup of some sort without plugging in your notebook. < 1252186244 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, some classification had "class 0 natural numbers" go up to 6... < 1252186264 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that an Access point? < 1252186285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might exist but I'm not so sure about the wifi-sourced connection bit; don't they use ethernet generally? < 1252186289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does, not might < 1252186300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc wireless routers that get their connection from ethernet exist < 1252186324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why use an AP at all < 1252186332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the alternative? < 1252186334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the computer can act as one can't it? < 1252186342 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIFI ad-hoc mode? < 1252186347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Does that work? < 1252186352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: So that's what that's for? < 1252186358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, cool, never mind then. < 1252186367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well that and I'm pretty sure I heard about someone using a mac-mini (running freebsd) as a regular AP < 1252186373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you need, like, software or something? < 1252186381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To routerise. < 1252186395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there must be something for it. < 1252186398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes. But that is just an command away < 1252186460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean it is trivial to use the NAT module in iptables to set up a bridge < 1252186463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or NAT < 1252186467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, then. < 1252186470 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the computer that acts as gateway... But other computers have to be configured to use it as gateway. < 1252186499 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHCP might work... < 1252186500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure how trivial it is to set up the computer's wlan card as an AP though, but I'm pretty sure it is possible < 1252186506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not as ad-hoc mode) < 1252186521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Can't they just connect to it as a wifi network? < 1252186523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well yes dhcp is trivial to get working too < 1252186533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure the answer is "yes" < 1252186548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not for ad-hoc mode obviously < 1252186565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do it with ad-hoc mode? < 1252186578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unsure. But ad-hoc mode is more like a p2p mode < 1252186641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... iwconfig wlan0 mode (Managed|Ad-Hoc|Master|Repeater|Secondary|Monitor|Auto) < 1252186647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is how you set the mode < 1252186656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on linux that is) < 1252186677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe Master is the mode to use for acting as an AP < 1252186685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Managed is the normal mode < 1252186689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you connect to an AP < 1252186700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An issue with that wifi-sourced AP, anyway, is that it'd need batteries and such. < 1252186703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could then setup NAT as well as a DHCP server < 1252186711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes obviously. < 1252186723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was connected to a power plug < 1252186725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be deathly if they ran down before your computer. < 1252186726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and "Master" doesn't work everywhere; but certainly for many chipsets. < 1252186741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? Didn't know that < 1252186765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the zd1201 USB stick I have, for example, you need a special firmware file in order to get it to AP mode. < 1252186781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I haven't tried anything but managed mode < 1252186787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1252186844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw does anyone know if firewire 400 and firewire 800 devices can interoperate? < 1252186854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case I was thinking about ethernet over firewire < 1252186869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did OS X's "Internet sharing" from my 3G modem to WLAN at the department student seminar thing which was out there in the wilderness; I'm not sure whether that makes the computer look like an AP or just publishes an ad-hoc wlan network, since obviously I couldn't see it myself. Other people had no trouble connecting, though. < 1252186925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you don't have built in wlan? < 1252186944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, yes, of course, but there was no wlan available out there. < 1252186952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why the usb stick then? < 1252186959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252186961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3G modem. < 1252186961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had to use the built-in wlan to share the interwebs I got from the 3G stick to other people. < 1252186965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobile internet. < 1252186970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " For the zd1201 USB stick I have, for example, you need a special firmware file in order to get it to AP mode." < 1252186975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1252186977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounded like it was a wlan thingy < 1252186980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's from time before the iBook. < 1252186983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1252186994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That was basically my hypothetical usecase, btw. < 1252187007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this iBook is one of the G4 ones and not a silly clamshell right? < 1252187007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway yes of course it is possible. < 1252187008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, :( < 1252187009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sux :P < 1252187026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's the iBook G4. < 1252187032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaaaaaaame < 1252187046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoulda got one of those scorching 12" PowerBooks :P < 1252187050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have a clamshell G3 one. Which would by that logic be even cooler < 1252187059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no clamshell G4s < 1252187071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1252187073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "clamshell" model certainly looks more... professional, sure. < 1252187077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Clamshell_iBook_G3.jpg → http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Ibook12.jpg → http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/IBook_G4.jpg < 1252187093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note how ugly that second one's keyboard is!) < 1252187111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, all those strange squiggles in place of letters." < 1252187118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that :P < 1252187131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks crappy to type on. < 1252187190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's true. The G4 keyboard is not painful, though my space bar has a crack in the middle. < 1252187256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By schorching I meant literally; those 12" PowerBook G4s — http://www.wap.org/journal/jan03/powerbookg500.jpg – were known to be unkind to thighs. < 1252187287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pain is the price you pay for a spiffy laptop. < 1252187298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, I think "notebook". < 1252187318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, you know, laps. < 1252187345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just be sure to wear something non-flammable. < 1252187365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gaim-Thinklight is a plugin for the multiprotocol messenger Gaim that makes the ThinkLight flash on incoming instant messages" < 1252187367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1252187378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it's by that german haskell... dude. < 1252187421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, archive.org respects robots.txt even for vanished sites < 1252187447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is (was?) a kernel config option in the ppc-arch Linux kernel that made the "I'm sleeping" led in the iBook work as a HD led, flickering on disk activity. I think nowadays the led's been included in the sysfs-or-whatever-controllable things. < 1252187461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ThinkLight illuminates the whole keyboard, though. < 1252187466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis rather more noticable. < 1252187473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*noticeable < 1252187481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the ThinkLight usually used for? < 1252187481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's like that. < 1252187502 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another Archlinux user? < 1252187521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1252187532 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1252187542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no. What made you think so? < 1252187552 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ppc-arch Linux kernel" < 1252187561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that was just "ppc-architecture". < 1252187564 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252187573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think there are Arch users on channel, I've seen it talked about. < 1252187584 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is awesome :D < 1252187606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more of a Debianist-by-tradition-if-not-for-other-reasons myself. < 1252187610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this Logitech Illuminated backlight is somehow computer-controllable too. There's a special physical button to switch between "off" and the three intensity levels, it might be that they haven't bothered to build in any support for communicating back to the keyboard. < 1252187638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:51] Sgeo: What is the ThinkLight usually used for? < 1252187641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illuminating the whole keyboard. < 1252187649 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, when it's controllled < 1252187651 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :controlled < 1252187657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1252187668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A notification, if you mean the gaim plugin. < 1252187680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., "Hey, you got IMed, look at your taskbar". < 1252187686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other programs use the ThinkLight like that? < 1252187691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what I meant < 1252187714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Related: http://tinyurl.com/mnos6w < 1252187800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, Kopete, and Evolution *spit* < 1252187818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Creationism instead. < 1252187823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "Creation" I guess. < 1252187844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The "clamshell" model certainly looks more... professional, sure. <-- professional? < 1252187850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, lolwut? < 1252187852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is the opposite < 1252187856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a kid's fake laptop < 1252187858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, those spelling tutor things < 1252187872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can Evolution do that Thunderbird+extensions can't do? < 1252187875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, this "lsusb -v" output for this keyboard is rather strange: there's 2 USB interfaces on the thing; first one is a HID-class Keyboard-protocol one (which makes sense) but the second one speaks the HID "Mouse" protocol. Both only do interrupt-transfers from the keyboard to computer, though. < 1252187876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ooh that sounds familiar < 1252187885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think I saw one once < 1252187886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nothing. < 1252187892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: New species! < 1252187897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can Linux do that Windows can't do, apart from not suck? < 1252187897 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do most people use linux/BSD distros on their computers here? < 1252187900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, besides be all GNOME-exclusive-y) < 1252187905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey don't steal my joke < 1252187916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, sync to pda without too much pain possibly < 1252187921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, and calendar < 1252187923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: I use OS X, but on my new notebook will probably dual-boot Windows and Ubuntu or something. < 1252187936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, run the games that I want to play, without pain in either setting up WINE or setting up a VM < 1252187946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Thunderbird has a caldendar extension < 1252187959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Using your same method of talking, Thunderbird can't be called Evolution < 1252187960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do most people use linux/BSD distros on their computers here? <-- I certainly do < 1252187967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you not comprehend that other people have different preferences? < 1252187969 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in linux, you could run it with a VM (XP) with less RAM required than Vista < 1252187969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I bet it is pretty common, not everyone though < 1252188008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: But not much less than 7 < 1252188016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, VMs still don't work very well for 3D games. < 1252188037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What other programs use the ThinkLight like that? <-- anything that can be made to poke a file in /proc iirc < 1252188038 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can boot with less that 70mb RAM being used, that's into Openbox < 1252188044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it /sys? < 1252188057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, I prefer to use mine for what they are actually intended for < 1252188060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably in /sys, that's more modern. < 1252188066 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stick XP ontop, ~200mb, can 7 do it <300mb? < 1252188072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think you can do it both ways < 1252188093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who I know use Linux in here: ais523, AnMaster, BeholdMyGlory, bsmntbombdood_, clog (:P), comex_, Deewiant, EgoBot (:P), fizzie, fungot, GregorR, HackEgo (:P), pikhq. < 1252188094 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! we must use? take off. get off! the name's bandeau. here to build the ocean palace! and if you wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! < 1252188101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fungot (:P) < 1252188101 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but, we are far outnumbered! are you leaving! that sword alone can't stop, crono! < 1252188119 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252188133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sysfs-poking says the "keyboard" interface is event0, and the "mouse" in the keyboard is event1. What. < 1252188197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, new people here → obligatory blurb: fungot's sources -- and don't start with the "sword alone can't stop" again -- are at http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1252188197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses Linux sometimes < 1252188197 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you! take! we find! see ya around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca < 1252188235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Though I think there are Arch users on channel, I've seen it talked about. <-- me for example, I use Gentoo, Arch and Ubuntu. < 1252188251 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Arch :D < 1252188265 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to love Pacman < 1252188271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! That sword alone can't stop! ... < 1252188274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean, when it's controllled <-- it is to light up your keyboard. When it is dark. Fn+PgUp toggles it on/off. < 1252188274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, brb. < 1252188321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey, new people here → obligatory blurb: fungot's sources -- and don't start with the "sword alone can't stop" again -- are at http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 <-- wait I missed that. What is the sword alone thingy? < 1252188321 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a machine that looks like you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have the masamune! < 1252188334 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252188336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's what it often says in this ct style. < 1252188346 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often? < 1252188355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes, but repeatedly. < 1252188365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it likes ! though < 1252188371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it do that, anyway? < 1252188421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I really should try that game. What with everything now I don't dare try to get it though. If you see what I mean. < 1252188445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don'y grok this keyboard. All normal key comes via the event0 device; but few of the silly media-keys ("home", "email", "search", uh... "a guy", "calculator", "eject", "music", "rewind", "play/pause", "fast forward") but not all (for example "thing-with-many-windows" and "cog-in-front-of-screen") come through event1. < 1252188457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The things in quotes are my interpretations of the icons here.) < 1252188474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "a guy"? < 1252188487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thing with many windows"? < 1252188494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cog in front of screen"? < 1252188497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, PIC! < 1252188501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1252188521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just this icon of a person in there, how am I supposed to know what it means? I guess it could look a little like something I've seen in a MSN-messenger-related context. < 1252188562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, and typically all other keys except those three generate some keysyms according to xev. < 1252188586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was a picture of this already available, I'll try to find it. That camera battery is somewhere I'm not sure where. < 1252188623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.everythingusb.com/images/list/logitech-illuminated-keyboard-full.jpg -- you can sort-of see them, though they're pretty small. I'm talking about the orange stuff on top of the function keys. < 1252188662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illuminated? < 1252188669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, this sounds like a conspiracy! < 1252188674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is there no insert button? < 1252188678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, here's a big picture: http://www.ricdes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/21.jpg < 1252188689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there is < 1252188690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're going to have to ask logitech; but it's there above del, actually. < 1252188692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it up there < 1252188696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is there no scroll lock button < 1252188718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Scroll-lock's a Fn-style function on pause/break. And really, I have no clue what's up with the layout. < 1252188731 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1252188735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just felt nice to write with, and they hadn't done *completely* horrible things to it. < 1252188754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bottom row (with space bar) is raised a bit too much though. < 1252188760 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The caps lock button seems unnotched, which is nice < 1252188784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it doesn't look like full depth? < 1252188792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has those mostly-in-laptops scissor-style keyswitches, which I sort-of like. < 1252188795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that I mean traditional one < 1252188802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a bit flat. < 1252188804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't stand then on full sized ones < 1252188808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they're alright; better than rubber dome, at least < 1252188818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's somehow ok on laptops though < 1252188822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, rubber dome? < 1252188845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also how can you survive without "insert"? < 1252188848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What almost every non-laptop keyboard these days comes with. < 1252188872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly this keyboard I have here is showing slight jwz tendencies on ctrl and shift. Far from as bad yet < 1252188885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just press delete accidentally instead. (Okay, not *every* time, and there *is* insert, it's just in the wrong place.) < 1252188886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how would that work? < 1252188889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As we just discussed, insert is there, just dislocated. < 1252188915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would what work? < 1252188922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Dome-switch_keyboard ? < 1252188925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah see it now < 1252189017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a weird sort of cross between the traditional and the modern turned-90-degrees strangeness, like the one seen in http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/23893_01.jpg < 1252189057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's the modern one. I'm not sure, I've just been seeing "2x3-sized-block instead of 3x2-sized block" keyboards in the recent years. < 1252189058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, shudder that turned looks horrible < 1252189073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fashion seems to have passed a bit now. < 1252189103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm I think mine is rubber dome, yet it is quite nice to type on, compared to many other rubber dome ones. < 1252189106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some sort of "dump /dev/input/eventN format events in a human-readable form" app, but I can never remember the name. < 1252189143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are differences. But just about all rubber-dome switches suck compared to just about all mechanical switches. < 1252189155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I never liked the clicky sound < 1252189161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the feeling was nice < 1252189169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are non-clicky mechanical switches as well. < 1252189184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds nice < 1252189338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/09/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx has a Flash video in which a person demonstrates the sounds of various switches < 1252189372 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No rubber dome for comparison, though, IIRC. < 1252189384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it was called evdump. But dumping the events didn't help me much; it's like they've just arbitrarily decided to send a few of the USB key events through another endpoint, and one which says it speaks the "Mouse" HID protocol, yet still send key events. Or something. < 1252189458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh. Got those keys working though? < 1252189467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess you wouldn't use them much < 1252189526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all but one fn key combo works on my thinkpad. And that is Fn-PrtSc which is sysrq. Can't get magic sysrq to work < 1252189543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evdump says the thing-with-a-guy sends KEY_MESSENGER, but the two others send nothing recognizable. < 1252189559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a KEY_MESSEGNER defined? < 1252189603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252189614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1252189618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a markovbot in another channel: "Hold a decentlength intelligent conversation using six words or parentheses without being a lazy and don't pay the people entertained." < 1252189624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what sort of standard is it in? < 1252189637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define KEY_MESSENGER 0x1ae /* AL Instant Messaging */ < 1252189642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously no sort of standard. < 1252189659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, likely that other keyboards would define 0x1ae to be something else then? < 1252189691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible that it's in the HID standards, actually. < 1252189698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252189706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to check now. < 1252189708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is there a C compiler key? < 1252189716 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252189765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I watch the MST3k episode for Future War? < 1252189794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that; just "launching" a C compiler is probably not that useful. < 1252189809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a KEY_DATABASE, though. < 1252189831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1252189841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, KEY_VI and KEY_EMACS? < 1252189868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway these are the linux kernel keysyms, from the input layer; it's the driver's problem to translate whatever physical the keyboard sends into KEY_MESSENGER properly. I guess I could check which bit of code does that. < 1252189959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, yes; /dev/input/by-id shows the first one as "usb-Logitech_Logitech_Illuminated_Keyboard-event-kbd" and the second one as "usb-Logitech_Logitech_Illuminated_Keyboard-event-mouse". < 1252189965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one rather strange mouse, I think. < 1252190016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252190097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: give me some markovness < 1252190097 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see? i like marle better than " princess,' the chosen time has come! he's strong and he's gonna thrash those monsters! yea! is it? < 1252190101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "hid-lg" driver doing -- in lg_wireless_mapping -- case 0x1014: lg_map_key_clear(KEY_MESSENGER); My keyboard could possibly be handled by that, even though it's not wireless. < 1252190110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1252190110 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1252190115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1252190116 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1252190120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrono Trigger seems like the best corpus yet < 1252190138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best in which sense? < 1252190142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's a matter of taste; I don't think AnMaster liked it much, or ehird either. < 1252190190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm fine with it < 1252190192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the messenger key might even be in the standards; from hid-input.c: "case HID_UP_CONSUMER: /* USB HUT v1.1, pages 56-62 */ -- case 0x1bc: map_key_clear(KEY_MESSENGER); break;" < 1252190194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, it seems to be relatively verbose < 1252190204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't get the reference due to never having played the game < 1252190213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the messenger key? < 1252190223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's also the only one done with the variable-length n-gram toolkit, though with probably suboptimal parameters. < 1252190243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might explain something. < 1252190245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's this icon of a... well, a guy, in one of the "media keys" of my keyboard. We were wondering what it does. < 1252190266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the button for opening MSN Messenger < 1252190274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of Microsoft's latest attempts to do yet more subtle lock-in < 1252190290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I hate Messenger so much... < 1252190317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logo is not actually exactly the MSN/Live Messenger buddy-icon guy. < 1252190329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think I've seen this particular one somewhere. < 1252190385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe I've seen it on my keyboard. Eh. < 1252190396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it on someone else's keyboard < 1252190407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, keyboards are so complicated nowadays, it doesn't really seem to help < 1252190421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all the random extra buttons are so far away that just chording with another modifier key is faster to type < 1252190443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even shift-F11 is faster than pressing the shortcut-menu key, on this relatively simple laptop keyboard < 1252190446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't have to move my hand < 1252190487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shortcut menu? < 1252190489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, it is in the USB standard. < 1252190492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is shift-F11? < 1252190510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift-f11 seems to insert something cryptic in my terminal when I try it < 1252190510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on Windows, they're the keyboard equivalent of right-clicking on whatever's keyboard-focused < 1252190521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh you mean my compose key ;P < 1252190523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HID usage tables, "consumer page", 1BC -- "AL [Application Launch] Instant Messaging". < 1252190550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's possibly quite a good key to use as a compose key < 1252190556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I have a compose key at all, it's C-x 8 < 1252190556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I sucessfully managed to talk PPP with my phone, didn't manage to connect using it though < 1252190570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet on it works though < 1252190578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not internet with computer using it < 1252190602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are rather strange keys in here; "AL" launch keys for: "Digital Wallet", "Online Community", "Market Monitor/Finance Browser", "Research/Search Browser", "Customized Corporate News Browser". < 1252190603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, caps lock as additional ctrl btw < 1252190660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for some reason enabling blue tooth makes the computer "hiss". Very odd. High pitched noise (think CRT) < 1252190676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar issue that I had with some usb devices (sometimes) < 1252190685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bluetooth shows up in lsusb hm < 1252190691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1252190828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaactually hey, it might be that the keys that come through the other event device because the keysyms are from another "usage class" (consumer device, vs. keyboard). Still doesn't explain why it pretends to be a mouse, though. < 1252190852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My old mouse pretended to be a keyboard, IIRC. < 1252190978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :D < 1252191236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:10] fizzie: http://www.everythingusb.com/images/list/logitech-illuminated-keyboard-full.jpg -- you can sort-of see them, though they're pretty small. I'm talking about the orange stuff on top of the function keys. < 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no dudes, really ugly font, and ugh, I hate that layout of the del/home/end bit (have it on a keyboard here) < 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:13] fizzie: It has those mostly-in-laptops scissor-style keyswitches, which I sort-of like. < 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scissor-switches are godly. < 1252191237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:19] Deewiant: There are non-clicky mechanical switches as well. < 1252191239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still bottom out a hard surface, so it's clickier than rubber dome. Also, tactile switches are the devil; they're harder to type on, in my experience. But you can get non-clicky non-tactile mechanical switches too. < 1252191242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:26] ais523: from a markovbot in another channel: "Hold a decentlength intelligent conversation using six words or parentheses without being a lazy and don't pay the people entertained." < 1252191245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first part is probably a direct quote. < 1252191247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flood over! < 1252191257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, probably < 1252191265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as "decentlength" isn't a correctly spelt word < 1252191279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was an interesting concept, though < 1252191282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably finished "lazy ass/bastard" or something. < 1252191312 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252191404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can buy a Model M-style keyboard to replace a laptop keyboard with :) < 1252191410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A MEETING FAR, FAR AWAT < 1252191412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AWAY < 1252191420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you wouldn't replace the keyboard, you'd just use an external one < 1252191446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we are going to leverage the synergistic opperCLACK CLACK CLACKof the business poteCLACK CLACK CLACK and we SHUT THE FUCK UP, JOHN! < 1252191452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That isn't portable. < 1252191473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always befuddles me when people buy a notebook and proceed to bog it down with a ton of stationary accessories. < 1252191518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm somewhere in between; I can use my laptop either by itself or with accessories < 1252191520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There was a bigger picture later; the "guy" is in F4. < 1252191528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need an external mouse if I want to do mouse stuff at all, for instance < 1252191533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, isn't one word missing from this fungot style? < 1252191540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but overnight I'll just balance it on top of the duvet, and use it with nothing but the power cable < 1252191540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the MSN guy, at least. < 1252191547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hello? < 1252191547 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca < 1252191547 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1252191552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it might just be some Logitech guy. < 1252191554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1252191555 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1252191559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style c64 < 1252191559 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) < 1252191562 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252191565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hi < 1252191565 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the shape data in the corresponding ram at 57344-65535 ( e000-ffff). to do with the formula hibyte=int(ad/ 156) and an overflow error will occur. the opening of an and operation with the problem of mistaking the keyboard < 1252191567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, wow that Fn key is huge and replaces the windows/alt keys. < 1252191570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they hate ergonomics. < 1252191571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1252191572 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1252191573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hi < 1252191574 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not in the taskbar or alt-tab < 1252191575 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252191580 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252191583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well meh now I hit it's limit < 1252191590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I plan to use my notebook with nothing plugged in or associated (wirelessly), even the power cable (unless at a desk). < 1252191591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1252191595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the fn thing is another drawback in this. I don't really use it. < 1252191608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, whatever that word for "only happened once" was < 1252191611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1252191611 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1252191620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes my standards for the notebook a lot more stringent, which is good because I don't want to be stuck using something inferior outsid. < 1252191623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*outside < 1252191647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I also have a requirement to get a laptop, not a notebook, so I should probably say that. < 1252191650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huhwat, what word? < 1252191658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord < 1252191660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1252191664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes that one < 1252191666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what he means < 1252191667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1252191668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot it XD < 1252191684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "only happened once" like *that*. Right. < 1252191687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit slow. < 1252191694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom only "happened" once. < 1252191698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She isn't very good in bed. < 1252191703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway why isn't it saying fnord at all now? < 1252191722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't do the replace-rare-token-with-UNK with all models. < 1252191733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unk unk unk < 1252191746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly for ones like the Chrono Trigger script where there's so little of data. < 1252191749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there aren't any notebooks that come with cooling pads attached < 1252191759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1252191759 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1252191765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Say something fnordy, please. < 1252191766 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's a piece of source code anywhere there's whitespace. i think < 1252191772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252191784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't fnordy. But it should still be saying it occasionally. < 1252191790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: 'ardly hever 'appens < 1252191791 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i am listening to johnny cash fnord prison blues. -w and use strict; mitigate that somewhat, but it < 1252191801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You're better at this. < 1252191816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Perl switches helps mitigate the effects of Johnny Cash's album Fnord Prison Blues. < 1252191817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course < 1252191832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, song. < 1252191852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://xkcd.com/628/ may be relevant here < 1252191867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can reference xkcd. I am culturally relevant ETC < 1252191883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.com/2009/08/comic-628-i-predict-this-comic-sucks-i.html :P < 1252191901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you cannot, you can only blather cynically < 1252191979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly 628 was quite good. < 1252192283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc :D < 1252192297 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252192311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, read it hours ago < 1252192320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and yeah that annotation was great < 1252192323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say that as if it _matters_ < 1252192331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't read it yeat < 1252192334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, of course it does < 1252192334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yet < 1252192360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean the deconstruction of the humour in the comment makes ryan north seem normal < 1252192368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/comment/annotation/ < 1252192378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't referring to your second line. how fast do you think i type? < 1252192394 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252192399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you asked for it, if you haven't read it before mentioning it... it is your own fault) < 1252192411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1252192429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I never mention it before I read it myself < 1252192443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if I mention it first I don't provide any spoilers until I'm sure you read it too < 1252192471 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252192472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since you mentioned it first this time... of course that means I'm free to provide spoilers :P < 1252192482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3890449002_949d56b7c7_o.jpg is #1 on reddit. Not like everyone saw this in 2007 when Leopard came out or anything... < 1252192511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comments are predictably "gee this is horrible mindbending advertising" followed up by "LOL YEAH MAC USERS ARE DUMB". < 1252192535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I like how the blue screened monitor is shiny.) < 1252192536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/3890449002_949d56b7c7_o.jpg is #1 on reddit. Not like everyone saw this in 2007 when Leopard came out or anything... <--- is the icon for pc server actually like that on macs? < 1252192536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NANANANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU < 1252192540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes < 1252192546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1252192566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and that is a CRT too right? < 1252192570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1252192579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with non flat surface < 1252192580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252192597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen a flat CRT other than the old TV in my life. < 1252192603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a low-end curmudgeon! < 1252192608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a whippersnapper. WHO KNOWS < 1252192611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I seen both flat and curved CRTs < 1252192630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see one of those super-awesome high end flat CRTs just so I can laugh at it because it's still blurry and whiny. < 1252192643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, whiny yes, but not blurry < 1252192651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my experience at least < 1252192658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and less whiny than low end ones < 1252192660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every CRT I've seen has been extraordinarily blurry; is there really _that_ much variance? < 1252192668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think it's inherent, knowing how CRTs work. < 1252192672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you never seen high end ones then < 1252192675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not exactly LCD plotted pixels... < 1252192680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1252192718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Health concerns < 1252192718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Related terms: < 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electronic waste < 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different from Template:See, this template takes a mutiple parameters of any length. < 1252192719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is true, but I'm talking about good ones at pre-press or similar. Seen those since I know someone working on a newspaper. < 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use commas and joining words like "and" or "or" as separators. < 1252192719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember to wikilink the target pages; the template does not do it automatically. < 1252192721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Wikipedia < 1252192725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Followed up by: < 1252192726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also < 1252192727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{Details}} < 1252192729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{main}} < 1252192731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{See also}} < 1252192733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{For}} < 1252192735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section template samples < 1252192737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Yes" as in "indeed, I haven't". < 1252192750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um < 1252192757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, IPS gets such good colour reproduction nowadays that anyone buying a new CRT in such a field is just stupid. < 1252192759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "that is true" as in " They're not exactly LCD plotted pixels..." < 1252192761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252192764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1252192815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also the colours were awesome. And calibrated with high end hang on thingy. Of course this was a few years ago. As in "when apple still made high end pre-press CRTs" < 1252192829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey yeah, Apple did used to make CRTs. < 1252192849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, old imacs had CRTs < 1252192853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather good ones IME < 1252192861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1252192863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I used first and second model imacs too < 1252192871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iMac CRTs are blurry. < 1252192878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not as bad as most PC ones < 1252192886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one (I broke its optical drive somehow after wiping the OS so it won't boot) < 1252192888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the good apple ones were MUCH better < 1252192902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple seem to be rather a fan of high-quality displays; Apple's 24" glossy Cinema Display, aimed squarely at the secondary notebook display crowd, is IPS... < 1252192925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1252192931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— and therefore everyone goes "OMG APPLE MARKUP" because it costs $899, having now idea what the words IPS or TN mean. < 1252192942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1252192956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't everyone using IPS? < 1252192958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: TN = twisted-nematic? < 1252192962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's also LED backlit, making it part of a very rare breed: LED-backlit IPS. < 1252192964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes < 1252192965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPS = ? < 1252192973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPS = Best LCD technology EVAR < 1252192976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :International Postal Service! < 1252192980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something) < 1252192983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huge gamut, really wide viewing angles (basically NO colour distortion) < 1252192987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1252192992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that's a damned good monitor. < 1252192993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm one of those people who knows enough electronics to know about twisted-nematics, but not enough ehirdness to know whether it's meant to be good or bad < 1252192995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the downside now again? < 1252192999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :price? power usage? < 1252193002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1252193005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably price < 1252193017 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252193023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downsides: It's very thick, so you'll only find it on separate units. It's heavy, so ditto. And the displays cost around $1,000. < 1252193031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1252193042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so not very "flat" screen then? < 1252193049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's flat, just a bit thick. < 1252193050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which makes sense -- Apple has always been obsessive about their display quality) < 1252193059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said "very" thick < 1252193061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's 24" is 19cm deep and probably the thinnest. < 1252193074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some are as thick as modern iMacs. < 1252193077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 19 cm? wow < 1252193081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :picture < 1252193090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.apple.com/displays/ < 1252193091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously want to see this < 1252193098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TN has terrible colour reproduction, and the colours distort very quickly if you tilt them a bit < 1252193107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're thin and cheap, so they're on almost all notebooks and desktops < 1252193114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, it was invented for black-and-white, so I'm not at all surprised < 1252193129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you're looking at right now is almost certainly TN. < 1252193132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1252193135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the iMac displays are IPS. < 1252193141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine certainly has all the properties of it. < 1252193144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's pretty good for looking at images with borked alphas < 1252193153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gammas < 1252193153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newer models are glossy, mine isn't. < 1252193159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is pretty much my favourite display ever. < 1252193167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can change the gamma of the screen through a massively large range just by tilting it < 1252193171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252193173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The side profile certainly looks like most of the 19cm is still the stand, http://images.apple.com/displays/gallery/images/image4_20081014.jpg < 1252193175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this screen works in direct sunlight, which surprises me < 1252193181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, I see. < 1252193187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure about that 19 cm? < 1252193189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is it glossy? < 1252193191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See fizzie. < 1252193197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think so < 1252193213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Just played with tilting my LCD screen a bit. < 1252193215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252193223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Glossy displays tend to wash out in the sun as opposed to matte ones, which just get blocked out < 1252193225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically just reflects the sunlight rather than using a backlight < 1252193233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, glossy displays are awful indoors < 1252193237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has more colour distortion than my desktop for some reason < 1252193255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though neither is IPS. Definitely not pricey enough for that < 1252193255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this iMac has, like, two dead pixels. And the colours are perfect. And it's really sharp. Only disadvantage is that the contrast is kind of crap. < 1252193257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm not noticing the usual LCD distortion. Maybe I'm just bad at noticing that on modern LCDs, because I'm pretty damned sure this is a crappy monitor. < 1252193272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wake it up from sleep in the morning and think "wow, those whites aren't very...white". < 1252193286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Try moving instead and looking at it from an angle < 1252193314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Did. < 1252193317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, contrast doesn't matter iirc? < 1252193318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1252193322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Backlight < 1252193325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of display contrast < 1252193327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, another disadvantage of IPS: response times < 1252193337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1252193342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok < 1252193342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most IPSes are 16ms response time, give or take. < 1252193350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although their gray-to-gray response times are about 8ms. < 1252193353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LCD is never going to get up to the response times of things like LEDs; but then, LEDs are impractical for screens smaller than a few metres < 1252193354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's fine for everything but gaming. < 1252193361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: See: OLED < 1252193365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It exists, but is barely noticable. < 1252193385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They're thin, have good colours, incredibly good contrast and don't need any backlight. < 1252193391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they can be translucent. < 1252193393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bend,. < 1252193399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use very low power. < 1252193400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1252193402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are very lightweight. < 1252193405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about response time? < 1252193407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't wait for them to become practical < 1252193410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sub-1ms < 1252193416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well under < 1252193418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252193419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then why isn't everyone using them!? < 1252193424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cost. < 1252193427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Very large expense right no < 1252193427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1252193429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait a year or two < 1252193429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252193438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEDs have response times so good that they're often pulsed at incredibly fast speeds rather than dimming them < 1252193440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not stopping them from being used, though. < 1252193449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in displays of reasonable cost. < 1252193462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, OLEDs are like someone wrote in a deus ex machina to a book about displays. < 1252193480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, pulsing LEDs means you can put more power into them < 1252193494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can *get* OLED TV sets, they just cost a lot.) < 1252193502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're only like 11" < 1252193502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you want a really bright LED display, it works better to massively overdrive them about 20% of the time and let them recover the other 80%, then run them at max continuously < 1252193508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than < 1252193514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if PVA (compromise between IPS and TN; a bit worse colour reproduction but faster response times) is thinner than IPS. < 1252193523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's been some IPS ThinkPad at some point, though. < 1252193524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep < 1252193530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. High-quality TN is "acceptable". < 1252193559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not when it comes to colour < 1252193568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to randomly guess I have high-quality TN, simply because the gamma distortion is only even barely noticable at rather high angles. < 1252193575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fine for most photography, at least. < 1252193579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm going to randomly guess I have high-quality TN, simply because the gamma distortion is only even barely noticable at rather high angles. <-- same < 1252193586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, think pre-press ;P < 1252193586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How much did your display cost? < 1252193590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Naturally. < 1252193596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: $150-ish. < 1252193597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://static2.rubyrow.net/Advertisers/bluebox1.gif How ironic! The space is misplaced.) < 1252193603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You just have bad eyes, or got lucky. < 1252193608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your colour reproduction still sucks balls. < 1252193613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when I talk about high quality monitors I mean the same thing that Apple do :P < 1252193615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1252193635 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252193644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can notice the crap color reproduction. Just not much distortion. < 1252193662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've seen it on other LCD displays. That's just... Horrifying) < 1252193662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My display doesn't even dim until I'm practically perpendicular with it < 1252193680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general I found distortion is worse on laptops than desktops < 1252193689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether all those "LOL APPLE COMPUTERS ARE OVERPRICED" comparisons include an IPS display. < 1252193727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, there is a good chunk of markup from Apple, but a lot of the price delta *is* from Apple just straight-up using more expensive parts. < 1252193750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Apple adds something like 25-30% < 1252193755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is typical for high-end products < 1252193757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right. < 1252193806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a 40" OLED 1920x1200 panel from Samsung. (Of course you can't *buy* it, it was just demoed in some sort of trade show from their pilot non-mass-production line. < 1252193826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Samsung or someone are releasing a 19" OLED, iirc < 1252193827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, 1920x1080. Anyway. < 1252193828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon < 1252193837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nice 55dpi there. < 1252193847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a TV. < 1252193847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yeah, yeah, TV, I know.) < 1252193849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252193872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a 200 dpi TV be just awesome? < 1252193879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 40" demo was already back in 2008, I guess they should be getting something produced sooner or later too. < 1252193922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because anything above 1080p isn't available anywhere < 1252193930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh right < 1252193936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, at around 175dpi you can't see pixels without a magnifying glass. < 1252193946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything above that just gets much more expensive quickly. < 1252193952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no kill like overkill < 1252193962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just made that up, please tell me you just made that up. < 1252193966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's STUPID. < 1252193968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill < 1252193983 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252193988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari is so irritating after having used Chrome on XP. < 1252193997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, answer is: no, I just wanted to be able to link tvtroupes < 1252194002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling < 1252194003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's one thing that setup was, it was snappy. < 1252194004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tvropes* < 1252194008 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252194033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tvropes. < 1252194036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ropes onna TV. < 1252194052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh fail at spell correction < 1252194060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you click that link? < 1252194070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and closed it after having only clicked one more page, not in a tab. < 1252194076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am manly and I have willpower. < 1252194077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, damn < 1252194085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean you were trying to tropise ehird < 1252194085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, if you don't correct it soon that typo will be forever typo'd. < 1252194086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252194093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes of course < 1252194095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND YOU WILL NEVER LIVE DOWN THE SHAME < 1252194099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? < 1252194107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not? < 1252194116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, I've never visited TV Trpoes and don't know what all the fuss is about, but loads of people have warned me off it) < 1252194124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV Trpoes! < 1252194126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tvtropes of course < 1252194141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's addictive because they link almost everything and it's always to an interesting and funny article about that thing with tons of examples and you click it and < 1252194145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is just very... addicting < 1252194168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you know that xkcd about clicking around on wikipedia for hours? Well it is kind of like that, but more extreme < 1252194187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm unlikely to know about any particular xkcd unless it's been quoted so much that you get kickbanned for quoting it again < 1252194204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ropes are the "very long strings" class in SGI's STL implementation. < 1252194205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can get kickbanned for quoting xkcd? < 1252194205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, you're not missing out on anything. xkcd suuuuuuucks lately. < 1252194226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Tons of IRC channels are heavily policed in that way to make the conversation better. < 1252194229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've never seen it happen, but probably < 1252194237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://xkcd.com/214/ < 1252194242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Experience shows that an anarchic environment is a lot less annoying and generally has at least as good conversation quality. < 1252194243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which one's that? < 1252194245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that one is old enough to not suck < 1252194245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. #esoteric < 1252194249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the numbers off by heart yet < 1252194252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's about Batman < 1252194253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... the one about clicking around on wikipedia < 1252194256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1252194268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop it, you're feeding his I Will Not Use a Web Browser habit :P < 1252194278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1252194283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I encourage it. < 1252194291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ;_; < 1252194298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The thing with xkcd is that there's hardly ever a punchline. < 1252194305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny because, uhh, you're culturally in-the-know or something. < 1252194305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, yes < 1252194310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do get some of them, though < 1252194323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what Wikipedia is! Sometimes I get to wildly different pages when clicking on Wikipedia. < 1252194325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may have done this! < 1252194333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can sympathise with me and understand my cultural position. < 1252194339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore: Ha ha ha! Humour! < 1252194343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I get that xkcd. Ever realised that you ended up clicking around for hours? < 1252194347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, xkcd is meant to be funny? < 1252194351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was meant to be insightful < 1252194360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it fails even harder at that... < 1252194367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That does not a joke make. < 1252194378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, but it is insightful < 1252194393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, something xkcdsucks pointed out: Every time a girl is named in xkcd, the name Megan is used. And: http://xkcd.com/215/ < 1252194403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bawwwwwwwwwwwwww she broke up with me maybe if I mention her in my comic all the time ;_; < 1252194421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd seriously bet he actually broke up with someone called Megan < 1252194451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://xkcd.com/322/ has a girl named Joanna < 1252194470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, dark-haired girl then < 1252194474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, almost all < 1252194483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That comic, incidentally, also lacks a joke < 1252194494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless his ANGER AT PEOPLE MAKING BAD JOKES ON THE INTERNET transforms into humour somehow < 1252194506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; but I'm on xkcd's IRC network atm playing mafia, and comic 322 is the strongest-enforced rule there < 1252194558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Willingly spending time around xkcd fanatics? Well, I guess mafia doesn't involve too much discussion beyond, well, mafia. < 1252194587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the channel appears to have nothing to do with xkcd in particular, apart from the server < 1252194595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly full of nomic players, it seems sometimes < 1252194601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, about the same density as this channel < 1252194601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foonetic isn't xkcd's network, btw < 1252194613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1252194613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just only popular because of xkc < 1252194613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1252194629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I was connecting via irc.xkcd.com < 1252194634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose I could just connect directly < 1252194636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc.ubuntu.com < 1252194639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Ubuntu's IRC network! < 1252194645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that is freenode right? < 1252194654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1252194655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that freenode or not? I failed to determine after trying to tell for a while < 1252194658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1252194658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why these aliases? < 1252194663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be sort-of freenode, but sort-of not < 1252194668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How is it not < 1252194679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: e.g. it recognised that the name ais523 was taken, but wouldn't let me identify < 1252194687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could have joined #esoteric to check < 1252194690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a different Freenode server. < 1252194691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, this was ages ago < 1252194701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll try < 1252194714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or just used host or nslookup < 1252194727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"irc.ubuntu.com is an alias for chat.freenode.net." < 1252194729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252194748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and: < 1252194749 0 :ais523_telnet!n=ais523_t@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252194750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc.freenode.net is an alias for chat.freenode.net. < 1252194750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who even uses chat.freenode.net as opposed to irc.? < 1252194764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, everyone. indirectly < 1252194766 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, definitely the same network < 1252194770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but directly. < 1252194771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1252194772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1252194774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no one? < 1252194777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[23:52] AnMaster: "irc.ubuntu.com is an alias for chat.freenode.net." < 1252194795 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed that, but I was halfway through the test already < 1252194807 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's rather hard to notice other people's messages over tlenet while you're typing < 1252194812 0 :ais523_telnet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252194844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252194860 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252194905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if my dream last night was lucid or just fake-lucid (i.e. dreaming I was lucid). < 1252194918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was certainly very apprehensive about jumping out of the window despite a good amount of proof I was dreaming. < 1252194974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that could just be my "don't jump out of windows" instinct, but I'm usually out of that window pretty quickly after becoming lucid. (I always seem to start lucid dreams in my bedroom when it's day.) < 1252195036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(idea: convince him that he is dreaming to make him jump out his window?) < 1252195044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't try at home) < 1252195058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would require rather drastic changes to the fabric of reality. < 1252195088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I never open it, it's always just open when I'm about to jump. < 1252195097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although one time I jumped out of it while it was closed, I think. < 1252195099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about me starting talking about advanced stuff in haskell suddenly? < 1252195112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could work. < 1252195156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or ais talking like Mike Riley? < 1252195169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, for a long time) < 1252195183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not in the context of making some joke) < 1252195188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I remember one missed opportunity for lucidity from ages ago: I was in the bathroom, just standing around. Suddenly, a translucent, unrealistic ... old army? I don't know, but a stampede, came running through. To avoid them, even though they appeared entirely intangible, I ... went on the wall? Or just stayed to the side. Something, anyway. They passed. I remember thinking about dreams at one point, but obviously that was real. I didn't think it strange < 1252195206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^add a .; I typed it but my client stripped it < 1252195212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or something) < 1252195221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "strang."? < 1252195223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange. < 1252195226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252195236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, two chars stripped for me and fizzie, remember that < 1252195243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seriously fix that bug in your client < 1252195245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not me, it's my client < 1252195245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying < 1252195262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: KeyMaker missed a spam page today: Talk:Main Page/index.php < 1252195276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the T43's battery life isn't all that good; 5 hours 23 minutes < 1252195286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that sound good to me? < 1252195290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sounds < 1252195296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looking now < 1252195299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, not really; I'm looking for 6 hours, minimum. < 1252195307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X200 gets up to 9 hours. < 1252195308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and since you won't use cd probably just get an ultrabay battery as well < 1252195314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deleted < 1252195317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that both can't charge at once < 1252195318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do that? The T43 is from 2005. < 1252195331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still has IBM on it. < 1252195347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that guy I met at uni with the 9 cell battery had an ultrabay too, said he got close to 14 hours or something like that < 1252195360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much did he get without? I guess it was X-series. < 1252195373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the ultrabay battery is presumably heavier than the optical drive, no? < 1252195379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't look like that X series pic you showed me < 1252195384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the slab look at all < 1252195396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a new X-series. < 1252195396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather more like mine, and as I said, it was IBM era < 1252195422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, since you can choose different WiFi cards and stuff, I suppose I could replace it with a draft-n one. < 1252195429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I replace the HD with an SSD < 1252195430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I didn't ask about it without ultrabay < 1252195449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure you can get at the wifi card easily < 1252195452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, the T42 was lighter and faster than the T43... but at expense of battery < 1252195479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and why pre-N? < 1252195483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed. < 1252195490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... how fast is your internet connection? < 1252195499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is that this WiFi is slow. < 1252195508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200kiB/s vs 800kiB/s. < 1252195513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how many bars or whatever do you get there? < 1252195519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, that is probably latency < 1252195519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full, or near it. < 1252195523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could just be a shitty antenna. < 1252195533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid to consider things older than T60, anyway; they're all single-core Pentium M affairs. < 1252195539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it'd be upsettingly slow. < 1252195551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and what speed is it? On AP I mean < 1252195557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1252195580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 11a, 11b or 11g, or even pre-n? < 1252195584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the AP < 1252195593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, uh, the one before n. < 1252195598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g? < 1252195598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shitty ISP-provided "Livebox". < 1252195599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1252195605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:300 ;; want! < 1252195643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no mouse input at all? < 1252195651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares? It probably runs DOS < 1252195654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well then I bet the issue is either latency or crappy AP < 1252195668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AP is across the room. < 1252195671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it is latency. < 1252195682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, latency is always larger than for ethernet IME < 1252195702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well 200kiB/s just isn't acceptable; I can get 800kiB/s, dammit, and I want to use a good portion of that. < 1252195702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, especially if AP doesn't support short preamble < 1252195716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I bet you will need to replace your AP then < 1252195734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one of those Linuxable blue/green Linksys routers with the sticky-up antennae. < 1252195752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also a similarly-styled Linksys ADSL modem; just a question of linking those together sometime. < 1252195762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because pre-N isn't going to be any better than g at 200 vs 800 < 1252195772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it speeds up the non-internet stuff, though? < 1252195775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the overhead. < 1252195775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 11g should manage 800 kbps without issue < 1252195790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it speeds up LAN yes < 1252195800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least capacity < 1252195805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about latency < 1252195807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could get very large antennae for the Linksys AP. < 1252195814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can buy gigantic ones. < 1252195823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doubt it would help < 1252195827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I get ads for gigantic ones every day in my inbox. < 1252195834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1252195841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252195846 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252195851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why aren't there houses with antennae in the walls, I wonder? < 1252195859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway latency will always be higher with wlan than switched ethernet. Always < 1252195864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, with a 802.11g AP in the same room you indeed should get reasonable speeds; it goes theoretically up to 54 Mbps == 6.75 MB/s. < 1252195875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably also true for routered ethernet < 1252195988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1252196025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is switched ethernet, like, direct computer-to-computer? < 1252196107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, switching's like networking without any intelligence in the routers < 1252196115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead, the computers at each end have to work out the routes for themselves < 1252196119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't scale < 1252196124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1252196136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works well for things like relatively small company networks, though < 1252196141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252196160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's quite a bit of intelligence in a modern switch, though; for things like sensible multicast forwarding only to listening ports and such. < 1252196163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it'd be less of a pain to just buy an AP < 1252196167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1252196168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a router < 1252196190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The student housing network (which I assume had few thousand hosts) used to be a single gigantic Ethernet segment, and it worked reasonably well. < 1252196201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except when people misconfigured things.) < 1252196205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *shrug* anyway latency will always be less with ethernet. A lot less if AP doesn't support short preambles < 1252196205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a ton of wasted CPU time :P < 1252196216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *a lot more < 1252196228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah < 1252196229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of my final-year project, I had to design a hardware implementation of a networking switch < 1252196240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err no < 1252196249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nothing quite as complex as ethernet, though, just simple packets made up of address and data) < 1252196252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252196253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252196260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ethernet will have a LOT less latency if AP doesn't support short preamble < 1252196263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays it's about "one network segment per 50 apartments" and DHCP. < 1252196263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252196263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so less is correct there < 1252196269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I managed to make it work for arbitrary sizes despite VHDL's amazingly annoying lack of recursion < 1252196298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silicon recursion: proving space is continuous since 2010 < 1252196309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it bottomed out, and it's unrolled by the compiler < 1252196311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The circuit keeps getting smaller! < 1252196314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Shush you :P < 1252196328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it's quite difficult to design the code so that the code doesn't get bigger when the number of inputs does < 1252196363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ridiculous, I had one array which held all the temp vars, and lots of polynomials to index it < 1252196371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of those "broadband routers" have been made with the assumption that Internet access is slow, which means that if you plug a direct 100M/100M Internet connection in the "WAN" port, and then connect a computer with 100M Ethernet directly to the "router" (I hesitate to call them that), it's unable to transfer full-speed, since it's built on some really crappy general-purpose-CPU embedded platform and runs some equally silly software on it. < 1252196374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it reminded me a lot of esoprogramming, in fact) < 1252196401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was a often-noticed thing in the student networking newsgroup. < 1252196417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well for me the wan port looks like a special modem port < 1252196420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh, I see the reasoning there < 1252196421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have ADSL < 1252196429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only real routers are pentium 3 boxes. < 1252196430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUR HUR < 1252196442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, IDGI < 1252196465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, for routers that include an ADSL modem, it sort-of makes sense to make some assumptions about the maximum speed. < 1252196466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bunch of people use old computers as routers because, you know, who cares about noise, space or power consumption, let's be cool and use this as a router. < 1252196530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, it seems that Amazon has old ThinkPads, although unfortunately at low CPU speeds. < 1252196534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are WLAN dealies with "single Ethernet interface for an external internet, like a separate ADSL box, and then a four-port switch for the LAN" and still design the hardware so that it can't route and NAT packets from LAN to WAN at full speed. < 1252196558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a wlan ap in all that; that's why I said "WLAN dealies". < 1252196574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, I won't survive on a single-core Pentium M, will I? < 1252196624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I probably would, but somehow I suspect you wouldn't < 1252196707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically comfortable with this early-model 2.16ghz Core 2 Duo and 2.5GB of RAM, but I'll be putting an SSD in the notebook, so that gives it quite a performance advantage. Still, single-core is kind of bad. < 1252196708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how did you manage 5 years ago? < 1252196728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five years ago I was only starting to program shitty PHP craps, and my system had so much crap on it I don't even know. < 1252196735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it crashed So. Much. < 1252196745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it ran windows? < 1252196748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP. < 1252196757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was that frankenstein a-bit-here-a-bit-there cobbled PC that existed in so many various configurations since 1998. < 1252196760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well XP is quite stable for being windows < 1252196777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only way I can describe that machine is a constant war between crappy hardware. < 1252196780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And man, it was so loud. < 1252196788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still have it? < 1252196788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I slept a meter away from it, and it took me ages to adjust. < 1252196790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIR < 1252196794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And speaking of old computers as a router, I admit I'm one of those people. < 1252196795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a loud, deep noise. < 1252196801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you didn't shut it down at night? < 1252196814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because starting it up took about three to five minutes. < 1252196818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except that I did put the Atom box in to work as the router to eat a bit less electricity.) < 1252196822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, suspend to disk? < 1252196832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Whoa! Too advanced to work. < 1252196837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1252196844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that did not work. < 1252196848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The case, optical drives and disks survive today < 1252196853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1252196862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But everything else was replaced recently. It is serving as my mother's computer < 1252196863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mobo and cpu? < 1252196866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252196877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dd cleaned the disks? < 1252196878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now an AMD Athlon X2 thing. Still quite noisy. < 1252196887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not same ones? < 1252196889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The 80GB is still an installation of Windows since at least 2006. < 1252196898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 500GB, which is the one that is used, is Ubuntu 9.04. < 1252196921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She used the 80GB until late last year, when I installed Ubuntu, and it's been about 10x less sluggish ever since. < 1252196938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from at least < 1252196948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that particular one probably dated back to 2005. < 1252196979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I haven't really "coped" with any computer before this one. < 1252196992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, different room helps < 1252197000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeeeeeeeeeno. < 1252197024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure does. My desktop is noisy. Couldn't sleep in same room < 1252197030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean the bed < 1252197034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252197045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This computer makes a barely audible hum, but I'm sensitive enough that I still put it to sleep. < 1252197061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it clicks a bit when the disk is working. < 1252197066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have above normal hearing too so... yeah < 1252197073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's something like 23dBA. < 1252197078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :measured by silentpcreview about that < 1252197084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zalman tnn... would be so cool < 1252197090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly performance... < 1252197093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And around 20dBA thinks become completely inaudible < 1252197099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Actually, it can handle a quad-core CPU < 1252197103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1252197107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not a good graphics card with it < 1252197114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I would want that < 1252197121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So use a dual-core CPU < 1252197130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah would be enough < 1252197132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the current TNN sold is an (iirc, less beefy) Mini-ATX variant; you'd have to get it from a retailer that has some stockpiled. < 1252197143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1252197144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You wouldn't be able to get _high_ end. < 1252197192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually, I'd just get http://helmer3.sfe.se/ and place it on another floor. Wait... Make that "another building" even < 1252197201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the max you could get would be 9600 GT + 2.6GHz dual-core < 1252197203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next to the power station < 1252197209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ SSD < 1252197216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't a powerhouse by any measure, but the SSD should make it very snappy. < 1252197221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, you know, more silent. < 1252197292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But, er, "The completely fanless case, power supply and heatpipe-based cooling system was massive, heavy, and very expensive, well over US$1,000." < 1252197314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introduced 2003; that sentence is from a "background" section of an early 2006 review of a pre-assembled computer based on it. < 1252197315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I was thinking about the heat < 1252197324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Think about the damn price! < 1252197344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you know radiation. It would be like having a dual screen laptop right on your lap when standing a few meters away! < 1252197349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNN-500AF + X25-M is already nearing $2,000 < 1252197379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add the rest of the computer components, totalling say around $700 < 1252197391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that makes $2,700 for a mid-end system < 1252197396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, better since it's SSD, but < 1252197427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, er, http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/epcn-tnn500/epcn1.jpg < 1252197438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah? < 1252197442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those wheels are needed; it's something like 30kg. < 1252197444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool design < 1252197454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't touch it! < 1252197455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, great. Hard to steal < 1252197467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a TNN notebook! < 1252197475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1252197479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus: Sell it as a cheap method of birth control < 1252197493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay. Not cheap. < 1252197739 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252198417 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252198910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flought < 1252199408 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252199851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://porg.es/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/unicodedata-520d2txt.mp3 Unicode makes passable chiptune noise music (warning: loud). < 1252199875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that mp3 that's also valid unicode? < 1252199889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's `lame -r -m m -s 16 --bitwidth 8 ~/Downloads/UnicodeData-5.2.0d2.txt` where that file is http://unicode.org/Public/5.2.0/ucd/UnicodeData-5.2.0d12.txt. < 1252199892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From http://porg.es/blog/what-unicode-sounds-like. < 1252199896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually sounds good. < 1252199905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I legitimately like it, musically. < 1252200102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I just had the ridiculous idea of writing a brainfuck misinterpreter < 1252200112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it reads in a BF program, then runs it incorrectly < 1252200122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed ridiculous. forget it quickly < 1252200137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably will < 1252200153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... although I still think Befunge2K is an interesting idea < 1252200165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(befunge, all commands have a constant chance of being no-ops rather than doing what they should do) < 1252200174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's possible to write a program that's 100% guaranteed to work? < 1252200192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also: should # and ; be affected? they aren't really commands...) < 1252200266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible < 1252200269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every command could fail < 1252200344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could set it up so that it's in an infinite loop until the commands start working, though < 1252200358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if going vertically, _ has a different failure behaviour to success behaviour, entirely < 1252200374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and say you arranged it so that the TOS was 0 unless the previous command had run correctly... < 1252200376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probability, though < 1252200380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get fails, all the time < 1252200381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever < 1252200383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it has p=0 < 1252200391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's still 100% guaranteed to work < 1252200398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1252200403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100*(1-0) = 100 < 1252200418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something has p=1 of working, it's 100% likely to work < 1252200418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure, it is certain to happen, it's just that it's perfectly possible not to < 1252200553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/PC110 < 1252200561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too silly! < 1252200778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, I like how people are claiming that IBM wanted the PC to be cloneable < 1252200793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being that that's, you know, the opposite of reality < 1252200800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they desperately wanted a monopoly < 1252201229 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was the IBM PC so clonable, as opposed to other machines? < 1252201239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't. < 1252201246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from being quite off-the-shelf < 1252201259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but heck, the IBM PC *sucked* < 1252201296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the Apple Lisa came out two years later and was massively better, albeit more expensive < 1252201302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next year the Macintosh, which was like half the price < 1252201311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas the PC was, uhh, sucking. < 1252202337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE. < 1252202338 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252202362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram How many people are < 1252202368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a good question, < 1252202371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION so should you < 1252202372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, < 1252202382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: ping < 1252202383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo butt < 1252202385 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butt < 1252202385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh echo butt < 1252202386 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1252202387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1252202387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1252202388 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ minifind \ paste \ quote \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram < 1252202392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram fuck < 1252202395 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many people are \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ all countries \ Summary: \ \ population \ \ total highest lowest \ \ 6.68 billion people 1.31 billion people China 48 people Pitcairn Islands \ 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 estimates \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) on September 5, 2009 from Champaign, < 1252202399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252202401 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ fuck English word \ Definitions: \ \ fuck \ \ slang for sexual intercourse \ \ Word origins: \ \ Old English Middle English Classical Latin first recorded use: 1916 93 years ago \ Pronunciation: \ \ f \ \ k \ \ f' uhk \ \ Synonyms: \ \ fuck \ \ nookie shtup \ \ nooky \ \ piece of < 1252202408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.68 billion people are. < 1252202417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...also, nookie shtup. < 1252202418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :success! < 1252202432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees no nookie < 1252202438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1252202553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram Scientology < 1252202560 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientology \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ Scientology English word \ Definition: \ \ Scientology \ \ a new religion founded by L. Ron Hubbard in 1955 and characterized by a belief in the power of a person' s spirit to clear itself of past painful experiences through self knowledge and spiritual fulfillment \ \ Word origins: < 1252202560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1252202565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Wolfram I love you < 1252202566 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1252202575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also aliens < 1252202582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram sexual intercourse < 1252202590 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexual intercourse \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ sexual intercourse English phrase \ Definition: \ \ sexual intercourse \ \ the act of sexual procreation between a man and a woman; the man' s penis is inserted into the woman' s vagina and excited until orgasm and ejaculation occur \ \ Synonyms: \ \ sexual intercourse < 1252202601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So THAT'S why you have to be 18! < 1252202603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram infinity squared < 1252202604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's practically erotica. < 1252202608 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity squared \ \ Input: \ 2 \ \ Result: \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) on September 5, 2009 from Champaign, IL. © Wolfram Alpha LLC—A Wolfram Research Company \ \ 1 \ \ < 1252202617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's useless... < 1252202632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: HackEgo's Wolfram Alpha interface is the only thing in the universe more buggy than Wolfram Alpha itself < 1252202637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: HackEgo's Wolfram Alpha interface is the only thing in the universe more buggy than Wolfram Alpha < 1252202639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reads better that way) < 1252202646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=infinity%5E2 < 1252202650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Result = sideways 8 < 1252202669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does HackEgo screen scrape, or does W|A provide an API? < 1252202674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scraping < 1252202678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It screen scrapes the PDF. < 1252202678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to pay for the API < 1252202682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes: a PDF. < 1252202701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic < 1252202705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be better to scrape the Mathematica notebook, but < 1252202707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1252202748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does Mathematica have a button to turn a notebook into code? < 1252202758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the .nb < 1252202759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yow! < 1252202766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the code's embedded in there somehow < 1252202783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains base-64, presumably images < 1252202786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a shitload of boxes < 1252202899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who came up with the term "screen scraping"? It's not like a screen scraping tool is taking a screenshot and interpreting it < 1252203394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo violates W|A's terms of use < 1252203417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, nobody gives a shit < 1252203419 0 :calamari!n=calamari@70.162.187.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252203421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I violate it by being under 18. < 1252203486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i violate it just out of solidarity < 1252204145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advantage of ball mice: move more smoothly. Gah this mouse+pad. < 1252204164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought ball mice got less smooth, when they were dirty < 1252204165 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252204752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, no doubt < 1252204756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that beats scratchiness < 1252204769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't say felt pads; that's just like mud for a laser mouse < 1252204779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not sure why we obsoleted ball mice < 1252204783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess cleaning < 1252204783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1252204787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they were clean they worked perfectly < 1252204805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are any bluetooth ball mice... < 1252204879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I look at a trackball I cringe < 1252204887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just reminds me of popping your thumb out of its socket... < 1252205020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*optical mouse; I'm not using a laser mouse atm < 1252205269 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252205292 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252205374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next: the aureal mouse < 1252205417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aural < 1252205534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, apparently the T42 had good battery life < 1252205550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be travelling further and further back in the ThinkPad line, and am scared at the performance it will lead me to... < 1252206655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why Psychologists Are Infinitely More Dangerous Than Conspiracy Theorists" from infowars.com. < 1252206663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much textbook crazy concentrated in one place. < 1252206679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They want to destrooooooy your mind! Obamacare is eugenics NWO 9/11! < 1252207017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes Twitter was decentralized. I think I've said that before, and someone mentioned identi.ca < 1252207320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :identi.ca is not decentralised. < 1252207324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nobody gives a shit. < 1252207335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if twitter went down, nothing much would be lost; it is inherently transient < 1252207341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seriously, distributed this, distributed that < 1252207344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly pointless. < 1252207454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distribution using pointless topology < 1252208258 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know a way to scan for a given process being started? < 1252208271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably without ptracing the invoker < 1252208285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while sleep 1; do pgrep < 1252208289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you don't need it accurately, you could poll < 1252208308 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to figure out a command line being invoked < 1252208315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep can print at ree. < 1252208317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a tree < 1252208473 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh, pgrep is annoying, but it should work < 1252208482 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate piping in to read < 1252208748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1252208816 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252209747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252210715 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252211112 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252212008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes that he can malloc from Python, kind of < 1252212030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not? < 1252212035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why would you need to? < 1252212044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for fun? Being silly? < 1252212050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1252212058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you'd mean by that, though < 1252212113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc for malice < 1252212166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? ??2@YAPAXI@Z < 1252212168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is ??2@YAPAXI@Z < 1252212908 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252215897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just realised how terribly awful http://windows7sins.org/#1 is from a graphics design point of view < 1252215908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and knowing the FSF, the content isn't much better either < 1252215956 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just realized it? < 1252216009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: first I've seen the page < 1252216021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually read much of the content, I'm just guessing it's bad < 1252216027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graphic design is obvious, though < 1252216029 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1252216037 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant you'd been there several times and just realized < 1252216042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the real reason open source isn't really taking off is that the FSF is so awful at marketing) < 1252216105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( stallman < 1252218725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t clean Ubuntu install is nice :) < 1252218742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should seriously consider doing this every 6 months, rather than upgrading < 1252220302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252223695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1252223999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252224000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252225366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1252225743 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252225868 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252226560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252226582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252227173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1252227178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1252227184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... almost 9am < 1252227191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shops will be opening so I can buy breakfast < 1252227212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, been up all night? < 1252227212 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to do http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20090906 with only two Google searches; should I be worried or something? < 1252227215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252227233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you read uf too? < 1252227242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so that you remember uf had such a crossword) < 1252227255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it is for today < 1252227267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant "googled to find the crossword" < 1252227269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1252227279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I meant I managed to fill it in :-P < 1252227298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way they avoided 4e references < 1252227316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh? < 1252227316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even an error in it; it says "twenty-sided solid" where it means "twelve-sided solid" < 1252227338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I couldn't manage it, since I never played D&D < 1252227341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the crossword stops at third edition, which is probably a wise choice < 1252227357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fourth edition is a more or less completely different game, just with the same name for marketing purposes < 1252227362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a vaguely similar theme < 1252227414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252227449 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252227450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, I just realised how terribly awful http://windows7sins.org/#1 is from a graphics design point of view <-- um yeah that the frame scrolls sideways makes it look terrible for a start < 1252227465 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252227469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it then doesn't use said frame all the way... < 1252227487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even get why it does the start of a page in a frame, then leaves it for the rest of the page < 1252227501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1252227532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea how to connect to internet using your phone in ubuntu? < 1252227541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a phone < 1252227546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I have 3G internet thingy on my phone < 1252227548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ee what? < 1252227550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeh* < 1252227554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even an old one? < 1252227556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why people would assume i do < 1252227558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I do < 1252227562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252227563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my family own a landline, I can use taht < 1252227567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I use payphones sometimes too < 1252227585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean, I would have assumed at least an old GSM one with black and white screen or so < 1252227596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or black and grey rather, you know, like old calculators) < 1252227643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or possibly modern cheap calculators too, but I haven't used a non-graph-capable one for years, so no clue) < 1252227653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern cheap calculators still do that, yes < 1252227661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exams is a pretty good reason to use them < 1252227672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often calculators that do much more than arithmetic are banned < 1252227717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for this course graphing ones are allowed, but ones that can do CAS aren't < 1252227730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like simplifying expressions and such < 1252227740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is just below what is allowed. < 1252227821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I think mine doesn't follow the physical laws... I haven't replaced the batteries for years, and yes I used it a lot. < 1252227832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four of those small AAAA or whatever they are called < 1252227964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that I replaced batteries in one of those cheap calculators a lot more often... < 1252227974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I used it much less < 1252227977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very odd < 1252228022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Shouldn't a graphing calculator use more power than a cheap one in general? < 1252228160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this "using your phone over bluetooth" or what? < 1252228194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, um that was before, but last was "calculator" < 1252228215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but about phone for connecting to internet over bluetooth, if you know anything about it, please tell < 1252228290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it "manually" in Debian once, but it was quite a kludge; using that USB 3G modem in Ubuntu was impressively easy, though. My guess for phone-and-bluetooth would be the Bluetooth Device Wizard, maybe. < 1252228294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mean, opera mini works fine on the phone, yet I can't see to share it with the laptop over bluethooth. < 1252228309 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should perhaps actually try this, since I have the laptop and Ubuntu open and all. < 1252228348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: would depend on how much calculation it was doing, I suppose < 1252228355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm... same wizard as where you pair the devices up? Because I don't remember seeing any option for that there. I can mount the phone and browse it's file system and such < 1252228369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, maybe it wouldn't; it's more likely to have a more expensive processor, which therefore probably has better power-save features < 1252228375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the graphing one has been used a LOT more. < 1252228386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's a TI-83+ btw < 1252228403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graphing one may also have batteries which hold more charge < 1252228417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and ofc if it's solar-powered, the batteries may never run out) < 1252228447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well 4 AAAA vs 2 AAA? Not sure < 1252228464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither is solar-powered < 1252228466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most AAAs hardly hold any charge, they're mass-produced for consumers < 1252228476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but AAAAs are even smaller? < 1252228477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAA, I don't know; but likely they'd be higher-quality due to being harder to get hold of < 1252228482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252228489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small doesn't necessarily equal low charge, it depends on what they're made of < 1252228500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, both are Duracell thingies. So not exactly "cheap no-name" < 1252228566 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious, there's no immediately-obvious thing. What with Ubuntu's "just works" motto, I'd have assumed they have a user-friendly no-config-file-editing-involved solution for this. < 1252228579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just works for Palms < 1252228579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same... < 1252228595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I imagine phone-tethering would be hard to develop, as most networks ban it < 1252228597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather expensive, too < 1252228614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I got as far as using rfcomm to bind the DUN interface for the phone, but there I got stuck.... < 1252228615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody bans it around these parts. And what do you mean "expensive"? < 1252228622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call charges while testing < 1252228636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, it's a fixed 10 eur/month for unlimited data. < 1252228651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, your mobile operators are much less rip-offy than the ones over here < 1252228652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did manage to use minicom to seriously mess up the phone with AT commands (had to power cycle it... heh), but not to connect to internet < 1252228671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, most operators are pre-pay, but the rates go up astronomically high if you pay less than £15 a month < 1252228689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I don't really know how to set up a traditional dial-up networking connection over Ubuntu either. < 1252228701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it is per data here, but max 9 kr per 24 hours < 1252228703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like tha < 1252228705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1252228718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much is a kr in euros or pounds? < 1252228723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, google? < 1252228732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`convert 1kr in euros < 1252228732 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1252228743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`convert 9 SEK in EUR < 1252228744 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1252228746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252228751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 9 SEK in EUR < 1252228752 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 Swedish kronor = 0.878224893 Euros < 1252228758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1252228764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly 12 kr < 1252228766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure < 1252228772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pretty much the same as our £15 a month effective rate < 1252228796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that wouldn't even be unlimited < 1252228798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah, I have one of those SIM cards that you load with money, rather than pay per month thingy < 1252228808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what the English term for it is < 1252228816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-pay < 1252228818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252228825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "pay as you go" is the usual advertising phrase < 1252228832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... < 1252228884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram 9 SEK in EUR < 1252228893 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 SEK in EUR \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ convert kr 9 Swedish kronor to euros \ Results: \ \ € 0.88 euros \ \ at current quoted rate \ \ Minimal currency form: \ 50c 20c 10c 5c 2c \ \ 0.72 c \ \ Local currency conversion: \ \ $ 1.25 US dollars \ \ at current quoted rate \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) < 1252228903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I meant that above 9 SEK you aren't charged any more for the surfing < 1252228914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until after next midnight < 1252228920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it starts counting again < 1252229120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any Finnish operators offer that sort of deal, which is a bit of a shame, since I only use the mobile interwebs quite rarely, but a lot when it happens. < 1252229210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, Network Manager's "add mobile broadband connection" wizard (which was used for the 3G modem stuff) says the connection can be made "using a 3G modem or a phone", but it looks a bit like no-one's bothered to add over-Bluetooth support to it yet. < 1252229265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed my conclusion too < 1252229319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that "Blueman" GTK bluetooth manager app, which according to some sources should make it easy to have network manager see the phone. < 1252229352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and with the rfcomm stuff, it seems I'm supposed to know stuff about establishing the connection I have no clue about, I mean... it just works on the phone itself, why shouldn't it just be able to share that connection to the computer... < 1252229432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: please establish data 3G connection, you take care of the details ok, please stand by... (a few seconds pass) done, lets talk with some simple data stream protocol now great! < 1252229435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that won't ever work. I mean, unless your phone specifically has support for Internet-sharing thing. (Some PDA's at least support that sort of "connection setup on the phone, then Internet sharing over the PAN bluetooth protocol thing") < 1252229438 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252229466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah why does it have to act as a clueless modem when it *can* do this sort of thing itself already < 1252229484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that network-manager's "mobile broadband" wizard just has you select your provider from the list, with no messing-around with settings. < 1252229505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep, there doesn't even seem to be anywhere to select what device you want to use for it < 1252229533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I tried it, but quickly found it wouldn't work in any way whatosever < 1252229586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what was the complex way under debian that you did? < 1252229611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, network-manager expects to find the modem-to-use over HAL. That blueman app is supposed to provide the necessary glue there. < 1252229618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252229630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in the official Ubuntu repositories, though. (But there is a APT source for it.) < 1252229636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that explains it < 1252229645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I wouldn't trust random repos. < 1252229648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is it in the contrib repos? < 1252229662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not in universe or multiverse at least. < 1252229707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nnno. It's at https://launchpad.net/blueman, won't comment on trustworthiness. < 1252229731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnno? was that intentional? < 1252229771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems that bit.ly have got themselves an even shorter URL < 1252229791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1252229797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j.mp < 1252229803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.mp? where is that < 1252229807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a mirror < 1252229809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and where is .ly ...) < 1252229860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libya, and Northern Mariana islands. < 1252229861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh .ly seems to be Libya < 1252229868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah you were faster < 1252230001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chi.mp seems to be giving out "free" (haven't read the details) .mp domains. < 1252230073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, quite a few TLDs have been taken over commercially, now < 1252230082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which IMO is making a mockery of the Internet < 1252230114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know how the saying goes. You can't make a mockery without breaking a few... mocks. < 1252230124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice seems gcc has an __attribute__ that allows you to control -O* and -f* on a per-function basis < 1252230131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least modern GCC has it < 1252230274 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252230290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how they speak constantly about you owning your own identity; then when you look at the small print term-definitions: "Owner the term used by Saipan DataCom to describe you as the subscriber to the CHI.MP Service and owner of 'Customer Content.'" < 1252230350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252230502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most places (at least .fi) frown on single-character domains, but I guess not everyone. < 1252230683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a relatively recent network-manager blog-post which shows how easy the internet-over-bluetooth-over-phone is, assuming you have a bleeding-edge network-manager: http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/category/networkmanager/ < 1252230691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess someone's actually working on it. < 1252230761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course also: "DUN support needs a bit more work (its more complicated but also more capable); but tons of phones have PAN so lets get it out there." < 1252230781 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1252230789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how do I check if mine has PAN? < 1252230828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably it should have some sort of menu for Internet sharing. (Personally I haven't ran into any such phone yet.) < 1252230921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PAN approach is that more sensible "phone knows actual connection details like AP names" one. < 1252230997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sdptool to list services yields one that seems slightly relevant: Service Name: Network Access Point Service < 1252231083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does actually sound relevant. < 1252231124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1555921 is the full list btw < 1252231178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that excludes the channel info and so on for brevity) < 1252231218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it doesn't seem to be the PAN one though < 1252231238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I found some website mentioning "Service Name: PAN Network Access Point" from that command. < 1252231250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... < 1252231252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Service Description: Personal Ad-hoc Network Service which provides access to a network < 1252231255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252231288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does sound good. But that PAN support in the network manager was (at the time of the blog post) only in the git master. Probably will take some time for it to dribble down to Ubuntu. < 1252231365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes and this is separate from PAN it seems < 1252231373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there is no menu for this on the phone afair < 1252231505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My list of services is a lot shorter: http://pastebin.ca/1555928 < 1252231510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so the phone is quite ancient too. < 1252231612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, what does "PAN" stand for? < 1252231621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personal ad-hoc network? < 1252231639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so that is the description indeed of that. So it is PAN but isn't called PAN < 1252231659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also how would one go about using PAN without network manager? < 1252231681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"personal area network" is the usual expansion. And no clue, really. There was some tutorial about it though. < 1252231817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you have in the sdptool Service Class ID List field for that? I think those should be quite unambiguous, unlike the service name field which is a bit free-form. < 1252231834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Service Class ID List: < 1252231834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Network Access Point" (0x1116) < 1252231835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1252231931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be the PAN-AP indeed. < 1252231931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modprobe bnep ... lets see < 1252231963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is looking at http://bluez.sourceforge.net/contrib/HOWTO-PAN and wondering if bluez is new enough in ubuntu 9.04 < 1252231972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbian sources: "return 0x1116; // PAN NAP < 1252231976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programmet "pand" är för närvarande inte installerat. Du kan installera det genom att ange: < 1252231976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get install bluez-compat < 1252231977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh < 1252231986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compat doesn't look good < 1252232019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how it is done nowdays < 1252232026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, sounds obsoletey. (Though really, if you got a working rfcomm serial line and can speak to the phone, you should be able to set up a traditional dial-up networking connection over it; it's just some AT commands and PPP.) < 1252232046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I didn't manage to get the correct AT commands. Somehow < 1252232097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it seems I have a pan0 interface now, though ifconfig says it is down < 1252232112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what now, since the guide he looked at is so outdated it seems to refer to 2.4 kernels < 1252232156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's somehow "connected" to the network the phone is on already, you should be able to just bring it up and run dhclient or some-such on it. < 1252232174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it isn't connected as such < 1252232184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with the pan0 interface at least < 1252232193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, well, I don't know how that stuff works. :p < 1252232219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have an OS X modem script for the GPRS dial-up networking for "Nokia phones" in general; it's got one set of AT commands that could work. < 1252232269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, pastebin? < 1252232317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to extract the relevant stuff; there's a lot of modem-script-programmatic nonsense. < 1252232326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh? < 1252232371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All kind of test-if-it's-a-Nokia-phone and control flow strangeness. < 1252232398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252232435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, got a link to that PAN in network manager thing? it might help to look at the relevant commits < 1252232445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and google seems unable to find it here < 1252232499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, "AT&FE0V1&D2&S0&C1S0=0+IFC=3,1" should be the magical init string for the modem, followed by >> AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","[access point name here]" << for more initialization, and finally "ATD*99***1#" to dial. < 1252232523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Had to use a different quotation notation for that middle string, since it has embedded quotes.) < 1252232537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would access point name be? < 1252232549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one should be somewhere in the phone menus. < 1252232562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me it's "saunalahti.internet". < 1252232570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this phone has swedish menus, it is a bit hard to guess what might be intended < 1252232605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kopplingspunkt? < 1252232612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. < 1252232621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to be "Telia GPRS" (though it is 3G actually -_-) < 1252232637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Well, that might either be the real name or the human-readable name. < 1252232640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually iirc it is "3G if available, otherwise GPRS" < 1252232651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your provider listed in the network-manager mobile-broadband thing? < 1252232675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes, but I didn't manage to actually make that thing use my phone < 1252232676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, you can add a dummy "connection" there, then do "Edit" to it and look at the "APN" field it set up. < 1252232685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm *lets see* < 1252232710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :online.telia.se? < 1252232712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252232740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a reasonable format. Providers seem to like to make it resemble a DNS name, even though it's not really related. < 1252232747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : heh < 1252232762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "saunalahti.internet" is just [ISP name].[fictional .internet TLD]. < 1252232764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seriously PAN sounds a lot saner < 1252232768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1252232786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And these AT commands might not work; they do work with the N-Gage, though. < 1252232818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so where did you read that about PAN in network-manager, because if I can read the patch I can possibly use it with command line tools myself or such < 1252232864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/category/networkmanager/ was the blog-post about it. < 1252232878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252232916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a date, which might be useful maybe. < 1252232952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah maybe < 1252232982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.gnome.org/cgit/network-manager-applet/commit/?id=3bec17daa718354e22ca9b5116a91a4cf594eeee possibly. < 1252233047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that seems less useful than I had hoped < 1252233050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1252233051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, the files the code refers to; that actual patch looks pretty short and network-manager-infrastructury. < 1252233091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1252233169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You’ll need gnome-bluetooth >= 2.27.7.1, bluez >= 4.42" <-- right, both are way outdated here < 1252233195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I wouldn't want to have to grok the whole network-manager-applet mess just for this. < 1252233251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok, about dialup thingy, what sort of place does one enter those commands in? < 1252233282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of depends on whether you want to use Ubuntu's network-settings-thingies or some separate PPP dialer (like wvdial). < 1252233295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, whichever is easiest < 1252233321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a working rfcomm channel (with the device file present) it is possible that the device shows up in Ubuntu/Gnome's System > Administration > Network. < 1252233363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't show up there < 1252233374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes I have the rfcomm0 device file < 1252233375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a point-to-point connection, though? < 1252233402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? where whould that be? can't see one at least < 1252233426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one in that "Network Settings" connections tab. < 1252233469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't know where it comes from, really.) < 1252233484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, do you mean in the "network tool" thingy with ping, netstat and so on? or in the network manager thing? < 1252233515 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither. There are three things; the network manager applet (from tray), the "network tool" thing, and a "Network Settings" dialog. < 1252233537 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically pretty much everything in "Network Settings" is set to "roaming mode", in which case the network manager applet takes care of them. < 1252233540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't find the final one < 1252233544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1252233587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the command name is "network-admin"; maybe they've cleaned it away from the menus because it was confusing. :p < 1252233606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tells me to do: sudo apt-get install gnome-network-admin < 1252233644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, then... if you want to try that, you can. It's either that, some other graphical dialer thing, or just /etc/network/interfaces magic, but I don't quite know how that last one works. < 1252233658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there is a ppp one there < 1252233671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't see if it is for the built in modem in computer thing or not < 1252233679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it reports pan0 as a wired network XD < 1252233710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, same here too. (I have a useless pan0 too.) < 1252233726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I suspect it may be for the built in modem < 1252233748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Properties > Enable it, then see the Modem tab for "modem port". < 1252233753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully you'll have your rfcomm device there. < 1252233769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modem port is empty, lets see... < 1252233785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop, lists /dev/modem and some ttyS[0-3] < 1252233791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this doesn't even have a serial port < 1252233821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Well, you need a serial-port-like connection to the phone, and a /dev node which looks like one -- something you can write AT commands to with minicom. < 1252233824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed /dev/modem doesn't exist even < 1252233840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a static list of suggestions, then -- same list here. < 1252233847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I could write AT commands with minicom to the rfcomm device, but that made the phone lock up < 1252233850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to power cycle it < 1252233856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly I entered the wrong ones < 1252233865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you want to try it, you can put that rfcomm device just manually there in modem port. < 1252233887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's possible that you can do "Connection type" > "GPRS/UMTS" in the "General" tab and just enter the "Access point name" to the field which should appear. < 1252233898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it might then do a reasonable generic initialization/dialing thing. < 1252233922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't know what to enter for user/password there... < 1252233930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just leave them empty, it works for me. :p < 1252233937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, in OS X, at least.) < 1252233954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you probably want the "Options" tab default-route and use-ISP's-DNS settings too. < 1252233978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I actually don't know how to make it *dial* the configured connection, heh. < 1252234003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think that network-settings should configure it so that you can "ifup ppp0" manually. Maybe. < 1252234085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Applying settings will probably reload the network-manager-applet which will temporarily drop your wlan, it seems.) < 1252234103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no luck, it just made my computer keep cycling connection to ethernet and phone crash again < 1252234138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hhheh. < 1252234150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did your phone reply to plain "AT" with "OK" in minicom? < 1252234175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember, let me test < 1252234226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes it does < 1252234258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, that's pretty strange. < 1252234290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could try with those nokia-specific initialization/dial commands. I'll try to see if I can figure out where you can put that stuff in the network-settings place. < 1252234290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it shouldn't do that? < 1252234305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, it should do that and then work properly. :p < 1252234345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Anyway, "AT&FE0V1&D2&S0&C1S0=0+IFC=3,1" should be the magical init string for the modem, followed by >> AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","[access point name here]" << for more initialization, and finally "ATD*99***1#" to dial. < 1252234356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I try that first one it seems minicom stops accepting any more input < 1252234360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *do* get an OK < 1252234377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then any key press does nothing, Ctrl-A Z opens the minicom menu thing still though < 1252234403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it just stopped echoing < 1252234417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the E0 possibly. < 1252234433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can indeed try those commands in minicom. < 1252234451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should spew out some binary stuff for PPP connection initialization after the ATD... command, if it works. < 1252234453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well phone locked up at "ATD*99***1#" < 1252234463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rrright. That's not good. < 1252234466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it did spew some binary stuff < 1252234505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite know what's making it lock up all the time. < 1252234509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also on phone there is an icon for "data connection established", it is an E when connecting, and an E with a box around once the connection is established < 1252234516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it got to the E but never to the box < 1252234527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly this is significant < 1252234553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think around where I am atm there is only GPRS, no 3G, and the phone falls back on GPRS if it can't find 3G < 1252234599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that E thing is only for GPRS, while there is some kind of "3" symbol when there is full 3G around < 1252234618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "G" for the N-gage (always, since it's GPRS only). < 1252234624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it could be E for EDGE? < 1252234625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252234631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is EDGE? < 1252234655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDGE's a slight speed upgrade to GPRS. < 1252234662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the same technology, I guess. < 1252234662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is a "nokia 3210 classic" btw < 1252234669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well possibly, I wouldn't know < 1252234706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could try to see what the N-gage says if I minicom those strings into it, to see if it works. I'll have to do the rfcomm setup first, though. < 1252234718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, rfcomm was easy < 1252234738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: rfcomm bind 0 < 1252234742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where channel number is the DUN channel < 1252234764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0 is what will be at the end of the device node < 1252234774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rfcomm unbind 0 < 1252234777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to remove the interface < 1252234778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252234789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where MAC is the bluetooth one < 1252234805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if phone is set to visible you can use hcitool scan to find it < 1252234829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it did create rfcomm0 there. Will have to apt-get minicom first, though. :p < 1252234847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh ok < 1252235030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it picked up /dev/tty8 as the "serial port" by default, or something. < 1252235040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah just edit it < 1252235043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minicom -s < 1252235048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and select to edit the relevant line < 1252235055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252235134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I pointed it at rfcomm0 and started; the phone did the "bluetooth active and talking" icon for a second, then it went away and said "minicom: cannot open /dev/rfcomm0: No such file or directory". Maybe I typoed the address or something. < 1252235152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, possibly you selected wrong channel? < 1252235201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdptool search --baddr DUN < 1252235212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can drop the baddr stuff if you make the phone visible < 1252235228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252235232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be bdaddr < 1252235234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not baddr < 1252235263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mine it is channel 1 < 1252235313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks like it should be correct: < 1252235318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1555961 < 1252235483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm weird < 1252235497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1252235498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks ok < 1252235505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says it is closed here too until I try to use it < 1252235518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rfcomm connect 0 00:60:57:B8:DF:55 1" gives the "accept connection request?" dialog on the phone and connects properly, though. < 1252235547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm I have my phone set to auto accept connections from my laptop (but of course not from anywhere else) < 1252235551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I can give AT commands to the phone with minicom; but I have to keep that "rfcomm connect" running. < 1252235579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't need to do that at all hm < 1252235592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll check the commands. Though minicom did send some sort of automatic init string -- "AT S7=45 S0=0 L1 V1 X4 &c1 E1 Q0" -- which hopefully won't break anything. < 1252235603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while minicom is running: < 1252235606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# rfcomm < 1252235606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rfcomm0: 00:21:AA:FC:F2:F4 channel 1 connected [tty-attached] < 1252235612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, interesting < 1252235625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't notice that before < 1252235631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what that command does < 1252235778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmn. Well, I got some binary stuff (which looked reasonably familiar, I think it's the PPP setup) but just the "G", not the "boxed G". Which sort-of makes sense; the PPP server is the phone, after all, and presumably it's going to wait until the PPP connection is formed before actually doing the GPRS call. < 1252235805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did the phone lock up though? < 1252235827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. I don't know what's up with that. < 1252235868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the "G" symbol seems to be stuck there now. (Normally it's displaying just an "antenna" icon when nothing's connected.) < 1252235912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, try power cycling the phone < 1252235963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it went away after I browsed (with the phone browser) to google.com and then closed the browser. Silly stuff, though. < 1252235994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll try that full dial-up networking connection too, just in case. < 1252236041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, full dial up? < 1252236426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, not just minicom commands. < 1252236439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, it didn't seem to want to work. But it didn't seem to want to lock up either. < 1252236444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for wvdial, it refuses to work without user/pass it seems < 1252236468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's a bit silly. Though you can try entering "x" and "x" for both, it really shouldn't matter. < 1252236512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok works < 1252236557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no dhcp or anything < 1252236566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't crash phone, and it connected (boxed E) < 1252236582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should get IP and DNS from the PPP-specific protocol, I've forgotten the name. < 1252236591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPPoE? < 1252236595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1252236598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is for ADSL < 1252236612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just some "part of PPP connection setup" thing. < 1252236617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252236637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pppd is probably writing rather verbose logs (it has a habit) somewhere in /var/log. < 1252236650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it works < 1252236655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could ping google with it < 1252236677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which cost 0.01 kr it seems < 1252236700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well good to know it works, not that I will be using it a lot, just good to know I can if needed < 1252236708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lockups are strange. Did you do any setup with wvdial, or was it just "defaults for everything except /dev/rfcomm0 as the modem port"? < 1252236726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I used the relevant setup strings < 1252236737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in: < 1252236743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Init1 = AT&FE0V1&D2&S0&C1S0=0+IFC=3,1 < 1252236743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Init2 = AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","online.telia.se" < 1252236743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dial Command = ATD < 1252236743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phone = *99***1# < 1252236774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, those. Hmm. Well, maybe I'll try to set that vwdial up too later, just in case I've forgotten the 3G stick home or something. < 1252236782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, x for user/pass < 1252236790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well 3G stick would be cheaper I bet < 1252236815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for lockup I think the phone locked up between wvdial and ppp was done < 1252236827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh I also had to set: < 1252236828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid Mode = yes < 1252236840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise wvdial was waiting for a non-existing login prompt < 1252236842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1252236855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same 10 eur/month for both the 3G stick as well as any data over the phone; they're part of the same contract. < 1252236862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252236906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the second SIM card (for the 3G stick) was free, though I had to sign up my soul to them for the next 24 months for that. < 1252236936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't find any ppp log files, possibly it was the stuff that went to the terminal I ran wvdial in < 1252236943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe. < 1252236958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean things like: < 1252236960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> pppd: F[7f] < 1252236973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that sounds low-level enough. < 1252236978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that means < 1252237007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw "Arkleseizure"? < 1252237010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That MultiSIM thing is really strange, though; if I were to stick that second SIM into a phone, any incoming calls would cause both phones to ring. < 1252237051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answering one makes the others stop ringing. I wonder if there's some sort of race condition there. < 1252237052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err= < 1252237054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1252237072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what second sim? one for the 3G stick? < 1252237077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252237085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1252237087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how weird < 1252237112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you can use it in another phone if you want, it's this generic "do you have multiple phones? buy a 'secondary' SIM card" deal. < 1252237150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple mobile phones? why < 1252237175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second SIM card has a some sort of "technical" phone number, but logically they work under the "primary" SIM card number. (I.e. calls to that number go to both, when dialing out the receiver sees the primary number always, they share the same voicemail box, and so on.) < 1252237192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and if one of the phones is busy, incoming calls still ring in the other phones. < 1252237209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMS messages only go to the phone with the primary SIM card. < 1252237216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know what sort of use case this is for. < 1252237301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the ad-blurb (translated): "Do you have two mobile phones? For example a work phone and a party phone? Would you like to take a small and light phone with you when you go out to exercise, rather than your new multimedia phone? Or does your car perhaps have a fixed phone installation?" < 1252237367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252237384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all sound a bit far-fetched to me; the only one that makes sense is this "want to get online from both the phone and the computer without messing around with internet-over-phone stuff" case. < 1252237539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait hm, the max cost is 9 kr / dygn. And it says that the cost per MB is 20 kr. So that means you hit the max cost / dygn quite fast < 1252237544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note! The MultiSIM service is personal, and you may not distribute the secondary SIM cards to a third person." Otherwise I think quite a lot of people would take the "5 mobile internet connections at a price of 1" deal. < 1252237552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dygn = Swedish word for 24 hour period) < 1252237591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just "day" (overloaded a bit) in English. < 1252237616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 20 SEC in EUR < 1252237617 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May 9, 2009 ... 2 EUR, = 3.11 CAD, 100 EUR, = 155.59 CAD. 5 EUR, = 7.78 CAD, 200 EUR, = 311.18 CAD. 10 EUR, = 15.56 CAD, 500 EUR, = 777.95 CAD. 20 EUR ... < 1252237618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well day in English could be a 12 hour period as well < 1252237624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, SEK. < 1252237634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 20 SEK in EUR < 1252237635 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 Swedish kronor = 1.95161087 Euros < 1252237645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the SEC -> EUR thingy < 1252237652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make a lot of sense < 1252237672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it just picked some popular currencies when it didn't recognize SEC. < 1252237698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's 1.5 EUR/MB here without a specific data plan thing. < 1252237699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252237755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess that `calc is from Google? < 1252237780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to miss the "Did you mean: 20 SEK in EUR" correction, and pick up the summary for a "Convert Euros to Canadian Dollars" page. < 1252237799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252237810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it just looks for the first "X = Y" line on the page. < 1252237994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prices really are a lot more reasonable nowdays than just half a year ago < 1252238010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still pretty expensive < 1252238093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 10 eur/month (well, 9.80/month to be exact) was pretty much the upper limit for me, since the Nebula ADSL we have at home is so awfully expensive. < 1252238122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw the built in modem thingy doesn't seem to show up in linux at all. No great loss though < 1252238185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's one of those winmodems, it's not much of a surprise. I think the iBook modem showed up as a serial port in Linux, though not sure about that. < 1252238210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And "upper limit" in the "is willing to pay" sense, maybe not quite in the "can afford" sense.) < 1252238260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how much do you use it btw? < 1252238347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I don't know what: < 1252238350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:03.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset MEI Controller (rev 07) < 1252238350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1252238354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the modem? < 1252238446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be related to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Technology maybe. No clue. < 1252238489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1252238510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I probably don't use it enough to justify paying every month. I just got it as a preparation for an Android phone some day; those are a bit internet-dependent. < 1252238521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Maps at 1.5 eur/MB doesn't sound like a win. < 1252238574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except with that sort of "maximum price per day" thing, but we don't have that. < 1252238603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I don't think any Finnish operator does it; many do "you pay only this much for telephone calls per day", but they've cleverly not included data in that. < 1252238736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is no such thing for the calls, only for the data < 1252238740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it is Telia here < 1252238746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teila Refill to be exact < 1252238762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so maybe Sonera (sp?) has it? < 1252238793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that; Sonera is (or at least has traditionally been) one of the most expensive options here. < 1252238818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same for Telia here. Reliable, good coverage, but expensive. < 1252238833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is going down now, still I guess the other ones are less expensive < 1252238896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sonera has recently removed all "named" deals; nowadays they just have that pre-paid thing, and then for "pay monthly" there's this "build your own GSM connection" thing, where you pick all kinds of options and it computes the final price. < 1252238945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh... < 1252238955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually yes, they indeed do have one max-price-per-day data thing. < 1252238996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Data Tunti" (where fi:tunti == en:hour) -- you pay 0.90 EUR/hour for data, with a maximum of 6.90 EUR for a 24 hour period. < 1252239033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252239033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the 6.90 EUR/day is a lot more than your 20 SEK -> ~1.95 EUR. < 1252239048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wait, 9 SEK/day? < 1252239055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep. 20 SEK was per MB. But 9 SEK max per 24 hour period < 1252239056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then it's really a lot more than that. < 1252239117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, though, calls are pretty expensive. More so than when I first got this it seems. < 1252239122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, they have (and this must be a new thing, wasn't there less than a year ago) also a "Data Päivä" (fi:päivä == en:day), where you pay 2.90 EUR at the start of each 24-hour data-use period. < 1252239135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1252239149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://www.telia.se/files/iSurfMiniMidiMaxi_TSP1543_priser_07aug.pdf < 1252239151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252239151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1252239153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong one < 1252239157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.telia.se/files/TeliaRefill_1139_3april.pdf < 1252239159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I meant < 1252239209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Sonera only does this custom-option-pickery, I don't have a good price sheet to point at. The web-based customizer looks a bit Finnish-only. < 1252239211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems that data is the only cheap thing on it < 1252239232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite the reverse of when I first got it < 1252239241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird they didn't tell their customers about that < 1252239280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 0.69 SEK in EUR < 1252239281 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.69 Swedish kronor = 0.0673305752 Euros < 1252239283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... data isn't exactly cheap either. What was it you paid < 1252239290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 EUR / month or? < 1252239296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.80 EUR/month, yes. < 1252239308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 9.80 EUR to SEK < 1252239309 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.80 Euros = 100.429856 Swedish kronor < 1252239321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much cheaper than mine would be if I used it every day < 1252239323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for data < 1252239332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I'm likely to use it very often for that < 1252239335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, that's obviously optimized for sporadic use. < 1252239359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Sonera's 2.90 EUR/24 hours. They have an about-10 EUR/month option too. < 1252239361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and the 0.69 thing is "within a month after you refilled the account" < 1252239371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it is the cost inside the parentheses < 1252239390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 1.99 SEK in EUR < 1252239391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's clever. < 1252239392 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.99 Swedish kronor = 0.194185282 Euros < 1252239398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite a bit worse < 1252239399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and this 9.80 EUR is with a 384 kbps speed limit, though; the faster options cost more. < 1252239488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mine is for 1 mbps limit iirc < 1252239546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite remember how much I pay for calls, since they no longer sell this limit. < 1252239589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The calls are reasonably expensive (something like 0.069 eur/minute, which is pretty close to that 0.69 SEK actually) but there's no monthly charge at all. (Except for this data add-on service.) < 1252239589 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252239610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and they seem to do it for whole minutes. As in... anything less than one minute still cost one minute < 1252239619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and between 1 and 2 minutes cost 2 minutes < 1252239638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no monthly charge at all here either < 1252239664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-paid ones tend not to have one. < 1252239673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it seems that in August (when I got this mobile Internet) I used it for 96 separate connections, totaling about 27 hours, and moved 66488 kilobytes of data. < 1252239688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66488 kb ... that would be < 1252239698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 MB? < 1252239701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the 1.5 EUR/MB cost, that's 97.39 EUR. < 1252239704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during 27 hours? < 1252239720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't you say it was fixed to 10 EUR? < 1252239736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, s/'s/ would be/ < 1252239751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252239812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my phone claims I so far received 5024540 bytes < 1252239817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I bought it < 1252239832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the N-Gage keeps a running count, unfortunately. < 1252239836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send 1152056 bytes < 1252239871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, total connected time: two hours, 58 minutes and 32 seconds < 1252239881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is slightly less than a year old < 1252239889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a year - 2 months or so < 1252239972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, can't seem to find such statistics in this phone. Aw. < 1252239990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1252239998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is in the same menu as called numbers, missed calls and such < 1252240004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "GPRS data counter" in the "missed calls" menu, indeed. < 1252240013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds about right < 1252240021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All sent data: 6.17 MB", "All receiv. data: 19.31 MB". < 1252240039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had this for at least five years now. < 1252240060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was that the same plan as your 3G usb stick thing or? < 1252240082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, same connection, but the phone can't count that of course. < 1252240108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1252240121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think data was something like 10 EUR/MB when I bought the phone, didn't really use it back then. < 1252240252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All calls: 41 hours, 52 minutes, 23 seconds. < 1252240262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The firmware upgrade probably reset these counters anyway. < 1252240308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1252240323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I wonder if you can get internet over bluetooth the other way around < 1252240330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, phone connecting to laptop < 1252240340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that once. < 1252240344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be useful for expensive firmware upgrades < 1252240350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though to a desktop, not laptop. < 1252240353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expensive as in: will easily hit the 9 kr < 1252240361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, my desktop lacks bluetooth < 1252240369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway: how? < 1252240383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does mine, but I had borrowed an USB stick for it. < 1252240384 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252240405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well ok, how anyway? < 1252240445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I don't remember the details. There was a *really* strange kludge involving an imaginary ".mrouter" TLD; Nokia phones use DNS queries to that to see if they're running under the PC Suite thing. < 1252240493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah... < 1252240494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1252240504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well probably not worth the trouble then < 1252240509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bwestermann.privat.t-online.de/3650linux_en.html seems to be about it; probably very obsoleted, and bad English. < 1252240586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also not work on newer phones: http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35332 < 1252240614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course it could be completely different for different models. < 1252240670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1252240909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Symbian phones I think there was some app. The PPP connection between the computer and the phone of course doesn't care which way the bits flow, but some sort of kludge is needed to (a) make the phone not close the connection when you're not making it connect to the Internet over GPRS/etc., and (b) to set up a default route with the computer as a gateway. < 1252240925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think this is a symbian one < 1252240958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't constantly reboot, it probably isn't. :p < 1252240965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so that's more of a N-Gage problem.) < 1252241035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to find a "3210 classic" from Nokia's device specs. There is a 3120 classic, though. < 1252241049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(S40 5th edition FP1.) < 1252241177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the PAN-AP thing is not listed in the "Bluetooth Profiles" list (A2DP, AVRCP, DUN, FTP, GAP, GAVDP, GOEP, HFP, HSP, OPP, SAP, SDAP, SPP; I don't know what most of those mean) for 3120 classic, so if that's your phone, it probably doesn't support the PAN approach for interweb sharing at least officially. < 1252241332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err 3120 classic was what I meant < 1252241343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it use symbian? < 1252241349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a S40 phone. < 1252241357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what does that mean exactly? < 1252241393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Nokia term; most of their phones are S40 (non-Symbian, custom proprietary OS) or S60 (Symbian). < 1252241402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Series 40" and "Series 60" officially. < 1252241430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the S40 OS is called "Nokia OS" in the specs; I think it had some silly internal codename too. < 1252241449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/3120_classic < 1252241606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only Symbian phones in the 3xxx series seem to be 3230, 3250, 3600, 3620, 3650 and 3660, all pretty old (2003-2005). < 1252241623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252241671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway you say it is more advanced than the S60 one? < 1252241677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that one you have < 1252241693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is symbian not propietary? < 1252241741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so, maybe "internal" or something like that would be a better word. You can buy a Symbian license; you can't buy a "Nokia OS" license. < 1252241796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess the first question depends on the precise definition of "advanced". This N-gage might be a bit more "programmable" (you can write native-code apps for it; it's just J2ME on S40 phones) but certainly yours has a lot of features that this doesn't. (Like 3G.) < 1252241817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252241826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and 30 MB flash built in or so < 1252241833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't have a micro sd card for it < 1252241861 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, fat load of good the programmability does me: *no-one* supports the "1st Edition" S60 devices any more, only from 3rd edition upwards. < 1252241899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252241930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how would one write J2ME apps without ending up killing one self though? < 1252241935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible < 1252241937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even open-source folks bother to support it any longer. I have to use an outdated copy of PuTTY because the couple of newest versions no longer support it. < 1252241952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't you update the OS on it? < 1252241955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't think J2ME is that bad. I mean, compared to Symbian development it's pure pleasure. < 1252241959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252241968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh symbian development is worse? < 1252241980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbian development is legendary in painfulness. < 1252242018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252242029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can't even flash the firmware on the N-gage without specialized hardware, if you could magically get a N-gage firmware with a newer Symbian version, which you can't. < 1252242036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is there any putty for my phone though? would be quite nice to have, though rather useless < 1252242053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no PuTTY port, but there's a J2ME SSH client, sure. < 1252242058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1252242063 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/ < 1252242070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should work just fine in your phone. < 1252242076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trustability? < 1252242094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it open source? < 1252242118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's GPL. < 1252242125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to find the source link right now though. < 1252242170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's at the end of the download page, I'm just selectively blind. < 1252242196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it either < 1252242211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/downloadversion.php?version=1.7.3 and at the end, for example. < 1252242225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252242234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the devel version. Of course reading the source doesn't really help unless you build it yourself, so you'd need the J2ME SDK stuff. < 1252242263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should one select devel or stable hm < 1252242283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and, jar or jad file? for cost reasons I hope I can transfer this over bluetooth < 1252242290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the file protocol thingy (which works) < 1252242316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.jar, then. < 1252242337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on my phone you can just file-transfer a .jar and it'll launch the app-installer. < 1252242345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252242370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that file transfer ftp like or file transfer "mount phone as a directory" like? < 1252242392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also is there no ssh2 only build ? < 1252242418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I've just used the "send file to device" OS X bluetooth thing; it speaks OBEX internally. < 1252242456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file arrives as a "message" then. If your phone has a file browser app, though, you can probably just transfer it however you like and "launch" it. < 1252242468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aren't jar just zip files? < 1252242503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when I try to open it I get: "Invalid crc on data descriptor 0/134695760 on midpssh-full.jar" < 1252242512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zip files with some specially handled file names (in the MANIFEST directory), yes. < 1252242514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1252242527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which version was this? < 1252242539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stable full < 1252242582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/v1.6.0/midpssh-full.jar + "unzip -l midpssh-full.jar" looks fine to me. < 1252242618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not with unzip, I was trying advzip to compress it better, which tends to work for every other jar file I tried it on < 1252242636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests with unzip < 1252242656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unzip works, how strange < 1252242688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically in a .jar file the META-INF directory needs to be first, but I guess advzip wouldn't go change the file order anyway. < 1252242707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm, well java -jar foo.jar after always worked < 1252242718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 495 Defl:N 500 867670159% 02-27-07 20:32 171efe4a small.png <-- that looks a bit wrong < 1252242727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few more like that < 1252242727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I don't think apps really care about it. < 1252242770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 495 Defl:N 500 -1% 2007-02-27 20:32 171efe4a small.png < 1252242774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what my "unzip" says. < 1252242780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252242791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was a bit off there < 1252242825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .png files indeed have a bit larger compressed size. Optimally they wouldn't be deflate-compressed at all. < 1252242848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, and the pngs would first be optimially compressed with optipng and advpng < 1252242869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though some apps tend to throw up on 4 bit gray scale pngs and such < 1252242874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so might not be a good idea always ;) < 1252242894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I love how complex png actually is) < 1252242904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 30 MB of flash (and something like a megabyte-or-two Java heap) I don't think you should care *that* much about a 121164-byte .jar. < 1252242927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't put a gigabyte-or-a-couple microSD card in the phone? < 1252242983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nop < 1252243015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I remember having problems running non-signed jars in my phone hm < 1252243342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, can it do public key auth? < 1252243575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I seem unable to specify a non-standard port too < 1252243597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really used it, just heard of it. < 1252243653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The S60 port of PuTTY does public-key auth, fortunately. I'm not sure about MidpSSH; J2ME apps can't really access the phone filesystem freely, IIRC, so it'd have to have some sort of own key-store thing. < 1252243703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not listed on the "Features" page. < 1252243733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use Public Key - for SSH 2 connections you can opt to use public key / private key authentication rather than a password." < 1252243738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it should support that. < 1252243748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/wiki/public-key < 1252243795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the non-standard port bit doesn't seem to work though < 1252243810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"now available", doesn't say which version it refers to. And doesn't support passphrases in the public key yet. :p < 1252243831 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252243835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1252243852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you should be able to use just "host:1234" as the hostname to connect to port 1234. < 1252243868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, tried that < 1252243886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just timed out, and yes I know it works because I done it from uni with my laptop < 1252243896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, based on http://www.xk72.com/midpssh/wiki/using-sessions it's supported. Feel free to check sources whether that feature too is only in the devel version. :p < 1252243910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must prepare some food. → < 1252243948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well ssh keys was in stable it seemed < 1252244118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if that is genuine Quenya < 1252244150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it has anything to do with balrogs < 1252244252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm Valarauko does mean that < 1252244335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but the phrase itself only gives iwc < 1252244369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm just the word hirdinya in fact < 1252244408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the dev version works better < 1252244503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact all the words i tested _expect_ valarauko only exists on that page, so i take it DMM just made something to sound right < 1252244517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*except < 1252244535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-s < 1252244688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and iirc quenya transliteration doesn't use ë except at the end of words < 1252244718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tolkien used it only so english-speakers wouldn't make it silent iirc) < 1252245769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, didn't the annotation say it was Tengwar or whatever < 1252245783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252245784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that the script? < 1252245788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that he didn't use < 1252245794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tengwar is the script, which he _didn't_ use < 1252245795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "Quenya" the language? < 1252245808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it definitely resembles quenya < 1252245839 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252245841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you realise saying that makes you look incredibly nerdy? < 1252245852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1252245852 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-23-169.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252245861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though not as much as if you was able to speak it fluently) < 1252245876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i even used to subscribe to the conlang list < 1252245904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252245920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately i'm much too lazy to actually _learn_ it ;) < 1252246422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that a good thing? < 1252246515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes me slightly less nerdy? :D < 1252246576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is that a good thing? < 1252246686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, bunnies! < 1252246692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1252246725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252246730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1252247840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally there's a thread on the iwc forum where they are discussing who is geekiest. sample: "I mentioned to a friend at an SCA event the other day that I'd translated lines from Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog into the Black Speech for use by my half-orc D&D character." < 1252247974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that was just the beginning of his post) < 1252248030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh < 1252248172 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252249007 0 :fizzieg!n=fis@85.76.204.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252249054 0 :fizzieg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Incidentally, one of the reasons why this net-over-phone might not have worked was that I was trying to use the APN "saunalahti.internet" when the correct would have been "internet.saunalahti". < 1252249107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252249118 0 :fizzieg!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252249195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those pesky finns have got internet in their saunas! < 1252249268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:lahti is also en:bay, in the geographical sense. So, "the Sauna Bay". < 1252249315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a very common place-name, actually, what with all the saunas around and all. I think there are at least four of them, probably many more. < 1252249447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, secure auth by first public key and then enforced password. (all thus using a restricted user) < 1252249463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/thus/this/ < 1252249856 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252249930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:44:57 wow, I just realised how terribly awful http://windows7sins.org/#1 is from a graphics design point of view < 1252249931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking hell that's ugly < 1252249940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like one of those one-page sites where they get you to buy a get-rich book < 1252249942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly /and/ unusable < 1252249957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to top it, the content isn't particularly good either < 1252249978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can anti-donate from the FSF < 1252249985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, transfer $10 from the FSF to the EFF < 1252249996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252250005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think that the FSF are paid by Microsoft to spread FUD so obvious it backfires? < 1252250022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would explain the free software song < 1252250028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOOOOOOOIN US NOW AND SHARE THE SOFTWARE < 1252250039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that awful Stephen Fry documentary? < 1252250063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how it was Freedom Fry when he's british < 1252250076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:32:05 w00t clean Ubuntu install is nice :) < 1252250076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:32:22 I should seriously consider doing this every 6 months, rather than upgrading < 1252250076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing something severely fucked up to your upgradees... < 1252250150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:58:52 ais523, any idea how to connect to internet using your phone in ubuntu? < 1252250152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bluetooth < 1252250157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvs < 1252250169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:59:16 I don't see why people would assume i do < 1252250169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:59:18 *I do < 1252250170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everyone does < 1252250221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on ubuntu it's easy < 1252250222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252250223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on xp < 1252250231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connect via bluetooth, then connect to → bluetooth < 1252250236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1252250264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, read the whole discussion with fizzie below before commenting on that :P < 1252250270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252250287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your loss < 1252250287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:16:35 but I imagine phone-tethering would be hard to develop, as most networks ban it < 1252250288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:16:37 rather expensive, too < 1252250288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expensive how < 1252250298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call charges < 1252250299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iphone 3g s has tethering, but not in the us/AT&T < 1252250321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:17:16 Er, it's a fixed 10 eur/month for unlimited data. < 1252250321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:17:31 wow, your mobile operators are much less rip-offy than the ones over here < 1252250321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1252250337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get a practically-unlimited-for-light-stuff contract for £25/mo < 1252250341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with unlimited 3g interwebs < 1252250397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also you can have a pay-as-you-go + £10/mo unlim 3g internet < 1252250494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:40:01 chi.mp seems to be giving out "free" (haven't read the details) .mp domains. < 1252250494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only host an openid thingy on them tho < 1252250511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:41:13 oh, quite a few TLDs have been taken over commercially, now < 1252250511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:41:22 which IMO is making a mockery of the Internet < 1252250511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like everything else involving money and the internet since the 70s, right? < 1252250520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1252250520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be a pretty damn big mock by now for you < 1252250526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is < 1252250575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some talk about a website in the .mp, but I really didn't bother to read the details. < 1252250666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is disappointed hum.an doesn't exist < 1252250823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.an? < 1252250860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Netherlands Antilles" < 1252250872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so stop using it and stop whining < 1252250887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh.. netherlands is .nl iirc, so what is this "Netherlands Antilles"? < 1252250895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you have to be from there to register, but it's strange no one there thought of it... < 1252250896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mostly don't use most of the bits I don't like < 1252250904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason I whine is because I rather enjoy it < 1252250906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ever heard of colonialism? < 1252250911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's annoying. < 1252250928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's two islands in the Caribbean; that seems to often be the case. < 1252250944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Netherlands Antilles was scheduled to be dissolved as a unified political entity on December 15, 2008, so that the five constituent islands would attain new constitutional statuses within the Kingdom of the Netherlands,[3] but this dissolution has been postponed to an indefinite future date which will at the latest be October 2010." -- maybe that's why people don't like their TLD. < 1252250951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I would have assumed they dropped the name of the parasite country when they became a separate country. And would have used the same TLD if not a separate country < 1252250976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :country TLDs are so stupid < 1252251014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autonomous regions of one country often have their own ccTLDs. land has .ax, to pick a nearby example. < 1252251015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing they can usefully classify non-arbitrarily is single-country organisations (and you never know when an organisation will spread), and they break every single domain in them if the country disappears, unless they're persuaded to not drop it < 1252251107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a 3g internet service with free roaming, dammit :P < 1252251109 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252251120 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252251176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't sell .ax domains to any non-land-related companies/individuals, though. I don't think I've happened across an .ax site ever. < 1252251202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who use country TLDs for personal stuff amuse me < 1252251210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am never ever ever going to move!" < 1252251245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, fl.ax exists :D < 1252251245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I wish people would stop linking to http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html < 1252251254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the business model it outlines is utterly impractical and useless... < 1252251312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was some talk in engadget-mobile referring to some US operator with data plans that included roaming (but 3G only in the States, only GPRS when roaming, and I don't know how unlimited-data the roaming parts were). < 1252251320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :str.ax doesn't... < 1252251338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my crapbook thing has that awful gprs/ie thing < 1252251347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wonder if the gprs can be used for non-IE-server stuff? < 1252251351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Finnish operators roaming-GPRS tends to cost some really absurd amount of money, like well over 10 eur/MB. < 1252251359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares, I'd rather pay £10/mo for 3g < 1252251370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, roaming, grumble < 1252251384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point of mobile internet is to make location irrelevant imo < 1252251403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you move within your little box, yes. < 1252251404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! < 1252251405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/06/new-thinkpad-keyboard-features-crowdsourced-design-lower-price/ < 1252251411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New ThinkPad desktop keyboard thing. < 1252251416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny how I was talking about it yesterday. < 1252251424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you are saying that ccTLDs only make sense for stuff like governments and such? < 1252251440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least they usually don't spread) < 1252251442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much. and local branches of international metaorganisations, maybe < 1252251454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "Fishermen International" has a group "Fishermen Ireland < 1252251454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1252251458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about something like BBC? < 1252251460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then fishermen.ie would make sense < 1252251469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's a governmental organisation, more or less < 1252251477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1252251478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a few degrees of seperation < 1252251544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no touchpad hm < 1252251551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a mouse :P < 1252251560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the trackpoint is a boon when typing ofc < 1252251576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and I prefer a keyboard that is less shallow < 1252251596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonsense < 1252251610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who likes desktops anyway :P < 1252251691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for long term use I prefer a computer I don't have to look down at to see the screen. Maybe a laptop with a monitor on some sort of extendable hydralic arm or such? < 1252251702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can plug displays into notebooks < 1252251728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and flatten down the screen to use the kb/nub/pad < 1252251729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes sure, but also a full sized keyboard is nice when typing for long periods. < 1252251739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkpad keyboards are full sized < 1252251746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keys are the same size as on a desktop keyboard < 1252251792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes mostly, Ctrl/Alt and space are not full sized for example < 1252251801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on the older ones < 1252251807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they needed to fit the arrow keys in on the same row kind of < 1252251820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus Fn < 1252251833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they dropped one windows key to be able to do it < 1252251849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/3072.jpg < 1252251866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252251886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one drops both windows keys and the menu key to manage it < 1252251896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: use fn as an extra modifier < 1252251904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, most of the keys have no fn action < 1252251908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use it for them < 1252251918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any menu key on this keyboard and I've had zero problems, too < 1252251922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc impossible, fn generates no key event to computer I think... let me check < 1252251930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it does on the older ones :P < 1252251957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/b/b4/ThinkPadX60.jpg ;; this was the machine the uni battery guy had, right? < 1252251962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the most famous ones, I'm pretty sure < 1252251973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prolly the only IBM one to hit 14hrs... < 1252251978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it does, but BIOS intercepts some, such that Fn-PgUp generates no key event apart from Fn < 1252251983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PgUp is the thinklight) < 1252251997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not BIOS < 1252251998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure, but it's a minority of keys that have a fn action < 1252252000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some part anyway < 1252252001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use it for all the oters < 1252252091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, what about escape key relative F keys... that is one thing I often typo, hitting F2 when I mean F1, because F1 is where Esc is usually < 1252252114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/shrug < 1252252116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I'll adjust < 1252252131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need the main block of keys, enter, backspace, delete and modifiers most of the time < 1252252140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'll probably map Fn-Backspace to delete for easiness) < 1252252150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it still doesn't solve the issue with feeling I mentioned above. I much prefer keys that goes down further (like traditional desktop keyboards) < 1252252161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you're crazy, < 1252252163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, thinkpads have great keyboards compared to many other laptops < 1252252171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they have great keyboards full stop. < 1252252191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on if you prefer full depth or shallow ones. < 1252252242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logitech illuminated Fn key doesn't generate anything visible to the computer, which is a bit of a shame. < 1252252259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: scissor-switch right? buy the thinkpad keynub! :P < 1252252261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:45] ehird: http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/b/b4/ThinkPadX60.jpg ;; this was the machine the uni battery guy had, right? < 1252252264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1252252293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mmh nop don't think so. Hard to say from the pic < 1252252298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it had touchpad < 1252252299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1252252303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as trackpoint < 1252252307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just switched keyboards, I think I'm going to have to use that at least until I break its spacebar too. < 1252252325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly T60, or T61 if it was widescreen < 1252252331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I can tell you on friday, same course then. < 1252252345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were the point's buttons red, i wonder < 1252252359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so then it'd be T43 < 1252252419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you could show me the left side of it closer I could tell better I think. < 1252252425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I saw that most of the time < 1252252430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1252252439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it definitely didn't have a floppy, not sure if that one there does < 1252252444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit hard to tell from the pic < 1252252445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell no :) < 1252252456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they've ever had floppies < 1252252464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just think that any ultrabay battery must be really heavy if it changes 5 1/2 hours into 14 < 1252252471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I doubt it's a T-series, really < 1252252475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err 9 into 14 < 1252252480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I said that < 1252252487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 hours with the 9-cell? < 1252252492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely an X series. < 1252252496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well maybe it was 10 cell then < 1252252500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever. < 1252252501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same. < 1252252519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was sticking out quite a bit, so possibly more than 9 cell < 1252252526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter < 1252252534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T43 gets 5 1/2 hours on the 9 cell < 1252252539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one card reader slot above a pc card slot on the right side < 1252252541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar for the T60 < 1252252544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it can't possibly be a T series < 1252252563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it wasn't http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/b/b4/ThinkPadX60.jpg because it did have a touchpad. < 1252252584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then he was lying to you about the battery life : < 1252252585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252252607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there any step above 9 cell? < 1252252631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, like, up to 12-cell. Regardless, 5 1/2 hours on 9 cell != 9 hours on 12 cell < 1252252658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, might have been 12-cell then, < 1252252669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have misremembered that bit < 1252252670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't a T series. < 1252252679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the X series, which has no touchpads, gets that much battery. < 1252252685 0 :xfire35!n=xfire35@cpc2-pete3-0-0-cust800.pete.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252252714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, design looked very similar to my R500, the whole thing was slightly smaller (looked like maybe 14" instead of 15.4") and the battery was sticking out quite a bit < 1252252728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may have been 15" normalscreen. < 1252252759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/9343.jpg < 1252252765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://macbitz.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/thinkpad-t601.jpg < 1252252766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly, but definitely not 4:3 < 1252252774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/4/4b/Thinkpad.jpg < 1252252778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Are you sure < 1252252778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252252790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, then < 1252252794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.landbiksen.dk/catalog/images/5153-IMG7415s.jpg < 1252252796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1252252802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vernontech.ca/uploads/lenovo_thinkpad_t61.jpg < 1252252819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/9343.jpg <-- not too much off, but don't remember the bit that is sticking out on the right side of the screen < 1252252828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See links after "If so, then" < 1252252922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/4/4b/Thinkpad.jpg <-- looks quite similar, but less widescreen? http://www.landbiksen.dk/catalog/images/5153-IMG7415s.jpg <-- PC card slots are off, it had one pc card slot and above that a card reader which was not part of a pc-card. Also that seems to have a thicker boarder for the screen? < 1252252954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe the thicker boarder is just doe to the angle of the picture < 1252252970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/4/4b/Thinkpad.jpg is not after "If so, then". < 1252252974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/4/4b/Thinkpad.jpg is the 4:3 T60. < 1252252993 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252253009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, can you wait until friday, I will try to see what the model number is then ;P < 1252253024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm convinced it either doesn't exist or you're misremembering. < 1252253088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I could be misremembering that it was a ibm and not a lenovo (and didn't some early lenovo ones still have the ibm logo on them?) < 1252253114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it was actually a live goat and not a laptop at all? < 1252253115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the latest two models or so don't have the IBM logo, whereas Lenovo has owned it since 2004/2005. < 1252253124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there are many Lenovo-manufactured models that have the IBM logo on them. < 1252253140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. Mine doesn't have the IBM logo btw < 1252253175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, show me pics of 9 cell and 12 cell and I'll tell you which of those it was < 1252253180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1252253208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless that ultrabay battery back weighs like a kilo, no way a trackpad-having ThinkPad gets that much battery, though. < 1252253227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the trackpad uses a lot of energy? < 1252253256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's just that the X series is the only one that could handle that sort of battery life. < 1252253261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they don't have trackpads. < 1252253276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Have you seen http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/PC110? < 1252253278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so SMALL! < 1252253292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pic with scale: http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~linma/gif/ibm_palmtop_pc110.gif < 1252253301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is the top not flat? < 1252253302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual photo: http://www.mobile-diary.com/pc110/pc110_5.jpg < 1252253316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No idea, but jeez! < 1252253325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine that keyboard. Ouch. < 1252253330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta be worse than the iPhone's. < 1252253347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~linma/gif/ibm_palmtop_pc110.gif is Droste. < 1252253362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah ouch < 1252253372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute, though. < 1252253377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also really pointless. < 1252253378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also cute. < 1252253379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that last link < 1252253384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the meny system thingy on it < 1252253397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some proprietary bootup thing, I think. It also runs Windows. < 1252253403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And DOS, and Linux and BSD. < 1252253411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also very thick. < 1252253432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So's your..." and so on. < 1252253475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two completion to that that come to mind and only one is an insult. Although the other is mildly disturbing. < 1252253508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... I can only think of one < 1252253517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is your cat? right? < 1252253565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1252253606 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252253607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah I know what the other one is! "goldfish" < 1252253608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1252253634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo goldfish so fat, she doesn't fit in a standard-sized goldfish bowl. < 1252253652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an insult! < 1252253691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yo momma so fat, she's slightly above the standard BMI!" < 1252253698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wife's family have this Toshiba T1000 PC "laptop", it's so very portable: http://www.myoldcomputers.com/museum/comp/museumpics/toshibat1000a.jpg < 1252253711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What, really? < 1252253712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1252253722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me they actually use it. < 1252253741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640x200 screen and all. And a 256-kilobyte ROM chip (with ms-dos 2.something) in place of a HD; but you can use floppies for storage. < 1252253767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was something wrong with it last I heard, but it wasn't very many years ago when we played a bit of Tetris on it. < 1252253775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it has a graphical screen? Amazing. < 1252253777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't exactly say it'd be in *active* use right now though. < 1252253787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That keyboard is probably buckling-spring. < 1252253787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252253808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably membrane or dome < 1252253814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CGA-compatible monochrome screen, but graphical, yes. < 1252253816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That old? < 1252253817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it < 1252253823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, awesome people used this: http://www.computercloset.org/Apple_Macintosh_Portable.jpg < 1252253826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any network or such? < 1252253831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got a trackball and button and all. < 1252253837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's dinky! < 1252253838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what do you mean... non-graphical screen? < 1252253841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1252253847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, like VT100. < 1252253862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Macintosh Portable was also stylish! All whit eand all. < 1252253863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text-only. < 1252253869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it ran system 6 up to system 7.5. < 1252253870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's a serial port. < 1252253875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had a 16Mhz processor! < 1252253879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm that's a bit too slow < 1252253881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus you had a whole 1MiB of RAM. < 1252253882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Alongside the earlier T1100 and T1200 systems, the Toshiba T1000 helped to change the image of portable computing. Before the T1100, previous supposedly portable computers were large and unwieldy." Fortunately that's not unwieldy at all. < 1252253889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even expandable to 9MiB or 8MiB if it's the backlight version. < 1252253891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You think the CPU could handle anything faster? :-P < 1252253894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so high-spec, isn't it? < 1252253898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even had a hard disk! < 1252253900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but wasn't the CRT itself technically able to render graphics, just the hardware wasn't able to be told to do so? < 1252253903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it had a modem inside. < 1252253908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that the difference matters) < 1252253917 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That T1000 had the standard 4.77 MHz.. well, it's a 80C86, but compatible anyway. And 512 kB of RAM. < 1252253918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: True, I guess. < 1252253918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right < 1252253933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: See? The Macintosh Portable was way superior. And came out in 1989. :-P < 1252253934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course it could be non-graphical like a cheap calculator < 1252253938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad it cost $6,500 for the base model. < 1252253939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with fixed segments < 1252253952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The T1000 came out in 1987, so it's understandable it's a bit less powerful. < 1252253964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it had a good display. < 1252253965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't the macintosh portable WAY heavier? < 1252253974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 16 pounds < 1252253980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 16 pounds in kg < 1252253981 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 pounds = 7.25747792 kilograms < 1252253990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that Toshiba looks lighter < 1252253995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt the other one was much less luggable. < 1252254013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe I misjudged the scale... < 1252254018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really matter at that point, considering you can't really carry it. < 1252254022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're about the same size. < 1252254037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one has a tracball on the side too < 1252254043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But its keyboard is smaller. < 1252254044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly smaller keyboard though < 1252254045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pc-museum.com/gallery/rcm-061-big-Macintosh-portable.jpg -- it does look a lot kewler. < 1252254045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252254057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there was a picture already. < 1252254060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Totally. < 1252254079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my plan when asking for network was: < 1252254087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thin client < 1252254103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with serial it wouldn't be usable even as that < 1252254106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's usable as a serial terminal. < 1252254113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, it'd be easier to plug in a monitor and keyboard to the server. :P < 1252254133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does that Toshiba have a fan in it? < 1252254135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes, but I was thinking something that was low end graphical, something that 10 mbps Ethernet could have handled < 1252254138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet the Macintosh Portable didn't! < 1252254154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Steve Jobs hated fans. Which is why the Mac kept frying. < 1252254157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know, could be either way. < 1252254174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have a VT510, but it burned out. :/ < 1252254203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An awesome piece of hardware, did some sort of 132x50 tiny-font display and everything. < 1252254207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dec.vecmar.com/products/productpage.asp?pid=2660-DEC_VT_510_Terminal < 1252254208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$219 < 1252254211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not exactly a rarity :P < 1252254212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there is a useless indention in the "screen" (technically not the screen, but the area around it) on that mac... I mean one is for the trackball < 1252254215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the other one is useless < 1252254231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For shutting it? < 1252254235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows. < 1252254241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks nicer symmetrical. < 1252254245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah maybe < 1252254251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a GreenArrays chip. I'd write a little OS thingy for it. :P < 1252254264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it's not rare, but I don't think I can justify getting another. < 1252254278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it did color, though, unlike the VT525. (Might be remembering wrongly too.) < 1252254284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here's a comparison of GA32 and 2 GA4 packages. We're testing chips and making mock-ups for possible applications. Hopefully mock-ups will help raise funds for real boards. Testing, of course, goes on forever." < 1252254284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://colorforth.com/G32-G4.jpg < 1252254286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow they're small. < 1252254298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's what she said to the FSM.) < 1252254304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSM? < 1252254324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, how long would a 9 cell battery last with those? < 1252254339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... how fast are they? < 1252254349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flying Spaghetti Monster < 1252254352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And who knows. < 1252254355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course they aren't intended for the same purpose) < 1252254360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not very on their own, you assemble them into a supercomputer. < 1252254362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bunch of them in one. < 1252254367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252254369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're unclocked, so they all run at different speed. < 1252254371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*speeds < 1252254377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(native silicon speed, pretty much) < 1252254390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://colorforth.com/haypress2.jpg is an assembled littleputer thingy. < 1252254417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't you need clock for some stuff? Like making sure avoiding metastable state and such. < 1252254424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm no expert on this though) < 1252254433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chuck Moore is clever. he'll have fixed it < 1252254435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ask ais523. < 1252254438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He knows that kind of stuff. < 1252254446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1252254516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you needed some kind of speed limiting to make some components work by making sure they didn't settle into a meta stable state or whatever. "flip-flops"? < 1252254558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know ... whatever I was going to ask < 1252254575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1252254603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1252254716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think ehird's question is still an unsolved problem. < 1252254890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so's your mom/ < 1252254892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ < 1252254909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disasters! yay!! < 1252254993 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-43-236.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252255043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm curious as to an answer to AnMaster's q too < 1252255118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's not the first clockless CPU design; there have been other working-but-experimental models. < 1252255145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sorry, I've been afk for a while < 1252255145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what native silicon speed is, anyway < 1252255150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: np < 1252255152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the issue? < 1252255185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They're unclocked, so they all run at different speed. < 1252255185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *speeds < 1252255185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (native silicon speed, pretty much) < 1252255187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, don't you need clock for some stuff? Like making sure avoiding metastable state and such. < 1252255189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : thought you needed some kind of speed limiting to make some components work by making sure they didn't settle into a meta stable state or whatever. "flip-flops"? < 1252255191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that < 1252255203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you do need speed limiting, due to slew rates < 1252255220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the metastable state only really happens with self-references, unless you're really unlucky < 1252255229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how could that colourforth chip work as unclocked? < 1252255236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you try to run a circuit too fast, there just won't be time to change 1s to 0s < 1252255261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and asynchronous design doesn't imply that it's running max speed with nothing limiting; just that there isn't a global clock < 1252255276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is silicon speed quantifiable in hz? < 1252255282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there'll almost certainly be local synchronization or control circuits, either implemented clock-style or some other way < 1252255284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it vary < 1252255288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, and yes < 1252255293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252255300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's massively temperature-dependent, for one thing < 1252255300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's like 50ghz normally or sth? < 1252255329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in one of our lab experiments, we chained 7 NOT gates in a loop, which for that sort of logic gave oscillation rather than a metastable state < 1252255348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the resulting oscillation was so fast that we could only just notice it on the student oscilloscopes, even setting them to the max frequency range < 1252255360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember offhand what value they go up to, though < 1252255376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Caltech designed and manufactured the world's first fully Quasi Delay Insensitive processor. During demonstrations, the researchers amazed viewers by loading a simple program which ran in a tight loop, pulsing one of the output lines after each instruction. This output line was connected to an oscilloscope. When a cup of hot coffee was placed on the chip, the pulse rate (the effective "clock rate") naturally slowed down to adapt to the worsening performance < 1252255376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the heated transistors. When liquid nitrogen was poured on the chip, the instruction rate shot up with no additional intervention." < 1252255403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty impressive < 1252255415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1252255423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, the massive slowdown in silicon-based circuits when they're heated is one of the more interesting demonstrations < 1252255434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: haha < 1252255437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no overclocking required < 1252255439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically makes all the components electronically leakier < 1252255444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Beef up the cooling < 1252255446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. There is no step two! < 1252255451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get more stray electrons doing random things, rather than what you want them to < 1252255485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what kind of range does it get at usual CPU temperature < 1252255491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double digit ghz? triple? < 1252255513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends a huge amount on the fabrication techniques used < 1252255543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to pay quite a lot extra to get a circuit going faster than a few tens to hundreds of megahertz, but ofc modern computers are much faster than that < 1252255566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is one of the reasons that modern processors are quite expensive as silicon chips go) < 1252255598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One would assume the "instruction rate" would depend also on how the chip does whatever it does, i.e. how much logic there is to go through. < 1252255611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's say AMD produced a clockless chip using typical desktop cooling < 1252255622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with as good as process as their x86 chips < 1252255629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the answer is I don't know < 1252255632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252255641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is, though, that the circuitry would be more complex < 1252255650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the circuit would have to run more slowly as a result < 1252255660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, you'd have a considerably simpler motherboard < 1252255678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of what a motherboard does is trying to match the wildly varying clock speeds of different bits of the system < 1252256049 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252256052 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252258053 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-15-239.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252258509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9hudh/the_most_complex_computer_science_operating/ ;; BSD astroturf? :-P < 1252258611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.losethos.com/godsongs.html < 1252258611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1252258616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the what. < 1252258618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha wow. < 1252258628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1252259019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I consult God regularly. One design decision He made was no child windows -- policy of one window per task. Another decision He made was 640x480 resolution. I posted a promise of sticking to this resolution. Then, God said He didn't mean permanantly, but I had already promised and God expects you to keep your word. Those were the main influences by God on my operating system. He's made little things, too." < 1252259036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("God's court is the supremest court. It's funny -- I hear these punks saying piracy is not theft. I'd like to see them tell God. I thought so!") < 1252259043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never fail to make me laugh, losethos < 1252259052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Wouldn't you believe in God if He talked to you? What's nutty about that?") < 1252259068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I downloaded opensound with a BSD license, but couldn't uncompress it. I even bought a new copy of winzip -- no luck." < 1252259070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tee hee < 1252259242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what format was the archive in? tgz? < 1252259572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1252259576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1252259587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just so crazy :) < 1252259974 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Winzip can do tgz, I think < 1252259977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may've been tbz2 < 1252261812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "opensound" means OSS, the download form lets you decide between .rpm, .deb and .tar.bz2. < 1252261886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A reasonably new winzip should be able to do bzip2, I think. < 1252261893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He decided not to because it's evil BSD license < 1252261899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid valgrind, segfaulting on an unstripped binary :-( < 1252261905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it allows no commercial use therefore it's against people making money < 1252261935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source downloads are .tar.bz2 only. < 1252262205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ouch, report a bug < 1252262219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also what the hell did you do to make it do that < 1252262228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, it's CCBI2 < 1252262233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252262234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind ccbi -- segfault < 1252262239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip -s ccbi && valgrind ccbi -- OK < 1252262247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, valgrind version? < 1252262250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.5 < 1252262256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also happened with 3.4.something last week < 1252262258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becuase I guess this is some issue with reading debug info < 1252262278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I hope your valgrind is built with debug info so you can report a bug about it < 1252262306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'll want a copy of the binary anyway so I won't bother < 1252262333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? I reported bugs to valgrind before. All but one fixed so far < 1252262346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, really good devs there who tries to figure out each bug < 1252262357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, a good test case is always a good idea < 1252262379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but failing that they seem to accept binaries that cause the issue too < 1252262392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I don't want to give them a copy even of the binary :-P < 1252262403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why not? < 1252262410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's open source after all < 1252262411 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 20M big anyway < 1252262415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, make a simple test case in D < 1252262418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet it isn't < 1252262434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ccbi2? you made the hg repo public iirc. < 1252262442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm pretty sure I have a copy somewhere < 1252262470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm yeah, I could try a non-secret copy < 1252262499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HOW DARE YOU BE A CATHEDRAL < 1252262579 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, evidently the non-secret one fails too < 1252262592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18M yay < 1252262602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 meggajits < 1252262612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: how's it secret :P < 1252262646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a /problem/ for me though, I can just run valgrind on the stripped copy and then ask gdb unstripped_copy what the symbol at a given address is < 1252262652 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: How isn't it :-P < 1252262668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252262742 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip --only-keep-debug makes it unexecutable, nice < 1252262755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cannot execute binary file" < 1252262862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it could be http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197988 < 1252262862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what it should do, anyway? < 1252262890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? Isn't there non-debug not-needed-for-running stuff < 1252262893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The intention is that this option will be used -- to create a two part executable. One a stripped binary which will occupy less space in RAM and in a distribution and the second a debugging information file [which is not supposed to be executed anyway]." < 1252262907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay. < 1252262971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's no "strip everything not necessary for running, but do keep debug info" flag. < 1252263042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, they had a fix for it (2M stack) but backed it out < 1252263066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's time to build my own valgrind and see if that helps < 1252263131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, evidently the non-secret one fails too <-- what is the secret one? < 1252263582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197988 presumably wasn't it after all, I made the stack size about 300 times bigger and it still doesn't work. < 1252263648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, don't use such insanely long symbols < 1252263659 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they are that insanely long < 1252263661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, tell me what your long symbol is < 1252263667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1252263671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW COME < 1252263673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether that even is the problem < 1252263675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you compile your binaries manually < 1252263677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh < 1252263679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids these days < 1252263682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, in fact I use a compiler < 1252263685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1252263688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely not. < 1252263689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nm ./ccbi-unstrripped <-- look for the longest line < 1252263693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dobelx64 is manually compiled though < 1252263702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I do a sort by length somehow easily < 1252263715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm... I was thinking about that myself < 1252263720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk print length | sort numeric < 1252263736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one get length in awk, is the question < 1252263746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort numeric would be sort -n < 1252263750 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, evidently, length. How obvious. < 1252263773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :71997 is the longest. < 1252263777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, include the symbol too < 1252263781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also that is insanely long < 1252263783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no, it's 72k. < 1252263786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[awk '{print length" "$0}' | sort -n]], FWIW < 1252263802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[awk '{print length, $0} | sort -n]] is what I did < 1252263816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symbol is apparently full of MD5 < 1252263822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning it's been compressed quite a bit already. < 1252263833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, isn't md5 supposed to be one way? < 1252263836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some-end of the compiler does that to compress them. < 1252263851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is, so it's not fully clear where the symbol came from. < 1252263865 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have the initial part though, so I can guess. < 1252263865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIIICE compression scheme < 1252263885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you get symbol names you need to compress to fit you are doing something wrong elsewhere ;P < 1252263885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Think about it. If this were reversible, it'd be another 10-100x bigger. < 1252263901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The compiler is doing something wrong by emitting this. < 1252263909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep that is what I meant < 1252263910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a known bug, of which the cause is not known. < 1252263916 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it isn't. < 1252263916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1252263922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symbol does exist < 1252263928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just shouldn't be emitted because it's compile-time only < 1252263948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that the compiler is doing something wrong if it manages to construct a symbol that long < 1252263949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I mean, there is something that long there, it just should be discarded. < 1252263956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly, and you're wrong there. < 1252263983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or possibly the user is doing something wrong, < 1252263985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is presumably the concatenation of all fingerprints' instructions' identifiers' names < 1252263988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah Deewiant < 1252263990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's your problem < 1252263992 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that < 1252263993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered that YOU fail < 1252263998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wow why? < 1252264014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I meant the common case where C++ generates long ones due to lots and lots of templates < 1252264017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think: boost < 1252264020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since they're all "ccbi.fingerprints.rcfunge98.trds.dosomethingcool" or the like, it's no surprise that this grows a bit. < 1252264022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like in the bug report) < 1252264036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective C++: "All the high level expressivity of C, with the lean and slim design of C++ together with the speed of Smalltalk." < 1252264046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1252264054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9hqbk/drag_mouse_to_rotate_look_at_tree_through_portals/c0cu74a) < 1252264088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unable to view that flash? < 1252264097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me what it is < 1252264101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think he is unable. < 1252264115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was linking to a comment, and no. < 1252264122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You chose not to install flash, so you don't see flash content. < 1252264129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a decision you have made and it is only because of you. < 1252264169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sum of all symbol lengths is 4895700 < 1252264176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note, this is in the non-"-g" version < 1252264183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is only 11M < 1252264227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The -g version goes up to 4974975; not that much more < 1252264295 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this is what happens when you do compile-time functional programming with a crap compiler frontend ;-P < 1252264329 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-214.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252264351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I DON'T LOVE YO < 1252264352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U < 1252264358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have hyperactive enterkey syndrome < 1252264386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a linker fail in some way too, I guess, since they shouldn't be used from anywhere < 1252264458 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well one would hope not < 1252264468 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre WAY too young < 1252264472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SAID THAT THE ONE OF THE TWO OF THE writing lines is boring < 1252264478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you would know, pedo < 1252264484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVING CLAIMED TO LOVE ME THE LAST TIME YOU WERE IN HERE < 1252264487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am i even talking about? < 1252264509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you could try nm on each *.o < 1252264510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find out < 1252264522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if it was linker only or not < 1252264525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one .o < 1252264530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1252264549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try non-whole-program-insanely-fast mode? < 1252264577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have one *.o per compilation unit < 1252264735 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252264786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13M ccbi.instructions.templates.o < 1252264787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1252264816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 69-line file with four workarounds for compiler bugs < 1252264838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vim doesn't recognize it as D and thinks it's dtrace < 1252265055 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252265075 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252265076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/shanerichmond/100003402/google-ufo-logo-mystery-solved/ < 1252265104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, dtrace? < 1252265112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also what about emacs? < 1252265119 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun's DTrace. < 1252265125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't have emacs. < 1252265126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh that... < 1252265162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, this just proves how crappy a) current C implementations and b) vim are < 1252265177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, AnMaster < 1252265183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being unable to detect a file type = VIM SUX EMACS RULZ < 1252265188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIM PERHAPS EVEN DROOLZ < 1252265197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, it is horrible isn't it < 1252265305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 87.97-MB emacs doesn't seem to have D support at all. < 1252265311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for that. < 1252265337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :87 MB? what emacs variant is that? < 1252265352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"emacs-23.1-3" from Arch's repositories. < 1252265361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Emacs 23.1.1 < 1252265366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is a bit lacking in the different-file-types front; of course there's a major mode for just about anything, but they don't ship everything by default. < 1252265383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1252265395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how they ship me a /var/games/emacs/snake-scores but not filetype support. < 1252265420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't install that part of emacs usually < 1252265421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ls /usr/share/emacs/23.1.50/lisp/progmodes/*.elc | wc -l" => 85, vs. "ls /usr/share/vim/vimcurrent/syntax/*.vim | wc -l" => 522. < 1252265451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls /usr/share/emacs/22.3/lisp/progmodes/*.elc | wc -l < 1252265451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :81 < 1252265451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1252265457 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :84 / 521 < 1252265474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If you want to know the test: < 1252265476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if match(lines, '^#!\S\+dtrace\|#pragma\s\+D\s\+option\|:\S\{-}:\S\{-}:') > -1 < 1252265476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : setf dtrace < 1252265476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1252265476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : setf d < 1252265478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : endif < 1252265483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know the test. < 1252265499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't bothered to modify it. < 1252265505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What part of the test is confusing it? < 1252265521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the last < 1252265546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's \{-}? < 1252265576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalent to * but non-greedy, evidently < 1252265622 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the line const C = "'" ~ (i=='\''?r"\'":i=='\\'?r"\\":i=='"'?"\"":""~i) ~ "'"; matches that last bit. < 1252265643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently so; sounds like the Perl *? < 1252265659 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me, I don't know the details of Perl regexp that well. < 1252265682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, the line const C = "'" ~ (i=='\''?r"\'":i=='\\'?r"\\":i=='"'?"\"":""~i) ~ "'"; matches that last bit. < 1252265684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1252265694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has *?, +? and ?? as non-greedy variants of plain *, + and ?. < 1252265713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and {...}? for {...}. < 1252265723 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right, it does indeed. < 1252265723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Java borrowed thom too. < 1252265735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them* < 1252265743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what the hell is that D line < 1252265747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, "thom". It sounds more impressive that way. < 1252265759 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ is concatenate, the rest is C-compatible. < 1252265760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah ok :P < 1252265783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and r"" is a string without escape chars < 1252265784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok... why the hell then :P < 1252265802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was trying to write "those" and "them" simultaneously. < 1252265824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why do it as a series of nested ?: expressions? < 1252265845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to? < 1252265856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to be constant, note < 1252265858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant as opposed to if else? < 1252265867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh hm < 1252265868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if-else isn't a constant expression, is it now < 1252265873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but that isn't constant either < 1252265875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i is < 1252265895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if i is, then what is the point? < 1252265898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i is a template parameter, so it is indeed constant. < 1252265902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1252265920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, tell me, what the hell is it that you are doing :P < 1252265929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That line is a workaround for http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=1059 < 1252265988 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This code is probably in your copy of CCBI2, too. < 1252266093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many open D compiler bugs are there? < 1252266114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the frontend I guess < 1252266114 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For DMD, 1005 < 1252266121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That includes frontend and backend < 1252266127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252266132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and in the ldc backend? < 1252266154 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :53, but some of those might also be for their frontend fork < 1252266164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and how many compiler bug workarounds does CCBI2 contain? < 1252266194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep WORKAROUND | wc -l = 26 < 1252266197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1252266201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The secret one has 28 < 1252266205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1252266215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is so secret about it ;P < 1252266241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 of those are for bug 810, which was fixed in the penultimate release but hasn't been merged into LDC < 1252266250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252266253 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that release breaks backwards compatibility with something else < 1252266288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how long since D reached stable version? < 1252266303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as defined by what upstream consider stable < 1252266306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and 8 of them are for a workaround in the build tool < 1252266318 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which could be removed if I switched to xfBuild, which I haven't bothered to do < 1252266350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 1.0 was called stable, although it actually wasn't (GRR 1.017, breaking several parts of my code) < 1252266359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... < 1252266362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that was beginning of 2007 < 1252266372 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the D1 - D2 fork happened < 1252266418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised that there are so many bugs still left in D after that time. Few devs working on it? < 1252266422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian has 77742 active bugs in 11741 packages; what a rat's nest of bugs. < 1252266443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, about 7 bugs per package? < 1252266457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently so. < 1252266475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any stats over which package has most? < 1252266488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to see how evenly distributed it is < 1252266521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The median number of bugs is 2, however. < 1252266581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Workaround stats for the DMD frontend in ccbi: 7 for 810, 5 for 1059, one each for 1640,1715,2288,2339,2991 < 1252266581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4804 packages with one bug, 2024 with two. Oh, and this is from the active-bugs index, so it's completely ignoring all packages with no bugs at all, which is not quite fair. :p < 1252266619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't think I have any in cfunge, and I had one in efunge. Yay for stable software :P < 1252266638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay for compilers with more than one maintainer :-P < 1252266641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the top-three active bugs: < 1252266644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * apt (maintainer: APT Development Team ) has 828 bugs < 1252266644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that too < 1252266644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * installation-reports (maintainer: Debian Install Team ) has 2113 bugs < 1252266644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * wnpp (maintainer: wnpp@debian.org) has 3528 bugs < 1252266652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there are some I more or less consider workarounds, like the double nested stringification macro < 1252266653 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wnpp? < 1252266657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is in C standard < 1252266663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, a meta-package < 1252266669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so possibly a stupid standard workaround < 1252266677 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like installation-reports presumably is < 1252266690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the wnpp meta-package for? < 1252266698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=wnpp < 1252266714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252266855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "installation-reports" bugs are I think general "problems installing Debian" issues. < 1252266888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The apt bugs seem reasonably real, though. < 1252266918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is just a software everyone use < 1252266923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still that many? hm < 1252266929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it counts minor and wishlist and other such things. < 1252266937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah true < 1252266961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Outstanding bugs -- Wishlist items; Unclassified (243 bugs)" is the largest single category for apt. < 1252266994 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1252267000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 7 other packages in the top-10 bugs list are aptitude, debbugs, dpkg, emacs21, evolution, iceweasel and linux-2.6. Pretty popular stuff. < 1252267021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd've expected xorg in that list < 1252267042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's split in too many parts, I think. :p < 1252267052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, heh < 1252267100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :952 bugs in everything matching /xorg/, that would make it replace apt in the top-3. < 1252267115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though not if counting apt+aptitude+dpkg together. < 1252267190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :227 bugs in xserver-xorg-core, 178 bugs in xserver-xorg-video-intel; those are the only two three-digit numbers there. < 1252267237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a funky graph at http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ < 1252267285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A4rexr cxi6r < 1252268281 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fried rice you made yourself is quite delicious. < 1252268308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not making it yourself inherently reduces its flavour. True story. < 1252268315 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truth. < 1252268319 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1252268343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restaurants like covering it in soy sauce. Far too much salt, glutamates. < 1252268355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. I love soy sauce. < 1252268371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some soy sauce adds nice flavor. < 1252268384 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252268388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding cups of soy sauce makes for a dish saltier than potato chips. < 1252268523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asset.soup.io/asset/0426/5459_3af7.jpeg < 1252268632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that was... almost funny :\ < 1252268644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But actually? :-P < 1252268656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not funny, or something more < 1252268664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1252268665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs moar wok. < 1252268673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically it should have been funny < 1252268676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it just isn't < 1252269271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blut < 1252269411 0 :boily!n=boily@dsl-67-230-147-103.tor.primus.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1252269507 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-62.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252269511 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E621... a.k.a. MSG... Wasn't it causative for overweight in animal experiments and associated with overweight in humans? :-) < 1252269511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252269516 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252269517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1252269546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what's your point < 1252269602 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To that "Far too much salt, glutamates". And who cares about salt (apart from bad taste) unless one is exceptionally sensitive to sodium. < 1252269640 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statistically signficant != actually significant. < 1252269704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: of course he means taste... < 1252269708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you can't taste salt? < 1252269721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: "Bad taste" is the primary complaint. < 1252269758 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, except that many have attitude: Eek... Salt (same type as eek... fat). < 1252269775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm complaining about glutamates in general, not specifically MSG. (soy sauce has naturally-occuring glutamates. They overpower everything else when too much is used.) < 1252269838 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soy sauce proabably also has other nasty stuff in it (that screws with things like nutrient intake)... < 1252269865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likely. I'm just complaining about how it tastes bad when you use tons of it, though. < 1252269873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soy sauce is delicious though, who cares < 1252269924 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "assocated with"... As some research reports would say, MSG consumption is a risk factor for being overweight. < 1252269958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the things that have MSG added have many other reasons for being bad for you. < 1252269968 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252269985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to be able to survive on just about anything < 1252270060 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but that MSG-weight association seems independent of that... < 1252270122 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, most stuff in stores that contains MSG contains quite nasty stuff. < 1252270145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure I can physically get overweight < 1252270153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been underweight my whole life no matter how much I eat < 1252270153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1252270255 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ever wondered why GI of fructose is so low compared to glucose even if both are very closely related)? < 1252270271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never in my life, Ilari. < 1252270498 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252270522 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glucose GI: 100 (defintion), Fructose GI: ~20. < 1252270541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling Ilari is involved in some sort of nutritionist field < 1252270721 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is using Wolfram alpha < 1252270737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram Alpha doesn't help you care about stuff < 1252270773 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just seems that most of current "nutrion science" is total garbage... < 1252270790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso? < 1252270820 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nutrion < 1252270910 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badly designed research, conclusions that do not follow from data, bad media reporting, etc... < 1252271506 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard trick: Send embragoed (keep secret until publication of the actual study) press release about some study to press (of course, distorting even further from already distorted conclusions). The press then distort it even further and then all give press without reading what the actual study says. < 1252271874 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course this might come on top of study design so bad that one wonders wheither incompetence is sufficient to explain it. < 1252271985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: it's a conspiracy! < 1252271993 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1252272131 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252272419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the funniest was rating various diets based on model which compared them to modern food guidelines... And one of the diets there was Atkins... One can guess how well it fared... < 1252272450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that funny < 1252272622 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and then there was effects on cholesterol computed for compared diets. And let's just say that those values were not sanity-checked against real-world values... < 1252272674 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252272710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: do you like research this much into absolutely everything :D < 1252272785 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252272858 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I come across... I have seen lots of quite wild stuff. Including stuff that would have serious HSQ if the math would check out (I usually skip the heavy math on first reading). < 1252272877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expand HSQ? < 1252272886 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy Shit Quotent. < 1252272902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1252272906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Quotient < 1252273036 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff like deriving Special Relativity, something close to General Relativity and some cosmological stuff (without having to invoke dark energy) out of model with *absolute* time. < 1252273059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all crazy :) < 1252273159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to replace the batteriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiies eseseseseseses in this keyboard, because it keeps repeating the same key which just closed all my browser windows and did ← that. < 1252273177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I recommend you do so. < 1252273186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that was amusing. < 1252273226 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that remind me of Linux doublecore keyboard bug? :-) < 1252273272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every key repeated or something? < 1252273293 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every keypress appeared twice. < 1252273309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah. < 1252273312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1252273317 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How'd they manage that? < 1252273322 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. < 1252273349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: run the keyboard code on both cores < 1252273361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you manage that accidentally < 1252273363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it notifies each core about it, they both send it to the rest of the system < 1252273364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oops" < 1252273372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: corespawn(kb);corespawn(kb); < 1252273379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it runs everything on every core by default in that section < 1252273382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// OOPS, didn't mean to do that < 1252273384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's a general-stuff-for-the-cpu < 1252273390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which each cpu core needs < 1252273395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they had the kb in that for single core < 1252273400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without realising it would break with more cores < 1252273407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's possible < 1252273443 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something OS-visible that's shared between cores but not been processors in SMP configuration... < 1252273452 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*between < 1252273539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a multi-core system you can program the APICs to sensibly route interrupts; I could believe they can be configured to deliver keyboard interrupts to both cores accidentally. < 1252273570 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wouldn't expain it. < 1252273588 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming the keyboard interface is similar to what PS/2 used). < 1252273623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual pentium III, fuck yeah < 1252273655 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double-IRQ would mess with it for sure, but at least PS/2 interface suppiled the real scancode data from I/O port). < 1252273697 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first IRQ would read the key and the second would then get nothing. Or they both would get parts and really mess things up. < 1252273793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irky IRQ quirk < 1252273801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are interrupt-based USB endpoints, but I have no clue how those work really. < 1252274209 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From /proc/interrupts: LOC: 657 698 369 (Timer), IRQ17: 367 783 122 (NIC), IRQ14: 35 914 225 (IDE), IRQ1: 8 306 061 (Keyboard), IRQ15: 170 134 (IDE), IRQ23: 1 007 (USB), IRQ16: 587 (USB), IRQ12: 323 (Mouse), IRQ0: 44 (Timer), IRQ4: 7 (Serial), IRQ6: 4 (floppy), IRQ8: 3 (RTC). < 1252274211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your end point. < 1252274374 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Racked 72 more IRQ6's backing up some source code. :-) < 1252274710 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Esolang that has 94 no-arguments operators (!-~) and every previous character affects decoding of the next... Would make code totally unreadable & unmaintainable. < 1252274739 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds a bit like Malbolge < 1252274743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the decoding bit < 1252274795 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that malbolge also scrambles code when running... < 1252274972 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably best would be language that could be proven to be TC with non-constructive proof but that wouldn't have any easy constructive proof that it is TC. < 1252275075 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or where the size of programs really explode when they get more complex (but still its TC). < 1252275220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even /proc/interrupts is so complicated nowadays: http://pastebin.com/m2c5bc2b4 < 1252275268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be just IRQ lines from 0 to 15 on a PC, and that was enough! Uphill both ways! < 1252275295 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is even more complicated: http://pastebin.com/f7f0bb0ca < 1252275313 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCI-MSI-edge? HPET-MSI-edge? < 1252275320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More cores, more numbers. < 1252275321 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although less IRQs evidently < 1252275336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead I have "machine check" stuff < 1252275410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSI is that PCI/PCIE message-signaled-interrupt thing, with the device sending a message over the bus to cause an interrupt, instead of having physical lines for that. < 1252275419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are just polls. Actual machine check events are worse. < 1252275453 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252275514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and "lspci"; at one point there was this one PCI bus, but now lspci lists five. < 1252275560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have three vacant PCI Express ports and one vacant PCI bridge < 1252275576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a PCI Express root port, whatever that is. < 1252275658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252275662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m18086ab0 -- I would like to, for example, know why the bt878 card has a different bus number there. < 1252275670 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This computer has 4 USB ports. And according to lspci, 3 USB1 UCHI controllers plus one USB2 ECHI controller... < 1252275698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to "lspci -t" that bus 04 is connected via that 00:14.4 "PCI to PCI Bridge". < 1252275747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And buses 01, 02 and 03 go through the more reasonable PCI bridges 00:01/02/06 up there; they even have some sort of labels there. < 1252275834 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCI bridge on card itself? < 1252275856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it'd be "ATI Technologies Inc SBx00" then. < 1252275893 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What that SBx00 even is? < 1252275907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound Blaster from ATI? :-P < 1252275910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably "SB600 and SB700", product numbers. < 1252275914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :South Bridge, I guess. < 1252275939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, it's an ATI motherboard isn't it < 1252275942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252275946 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.72.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252276122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Intel Atom box has a significantly shorter lspci output; much less cruft there. < 1252276271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what window managers are you darned kids running these days < 1252276297 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IceWM. < 1252276314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome, still. < 1252276321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icewm would be wonderful if it had just a lil more polish < 1252276372 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Openbox < 1252276531 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some bugs fixed, like that "lose input focus" bug. < 1252276560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :openbox is so strange. why do you have to keep some space free to get a menu to do anything? that's a ridiculous UI < 1252276563 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometimes when focused window is closed, no window gets the focus). < 1252276566 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMONAD < 1252276580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPSLOCKMONAD < 1252276587 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Wut? < 1252276605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut yourself < 1252276613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keeping some space free wut < 1252276625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fact is that you have to hunt for a bit of desktop < 1252276636 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the menu? Just bind it to a key < 1252276639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is ridiculous: Desktop is space that should be filled with useful things < 1252276656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Pressing a key then directly taskswitching to the mouse seems inefficient/ < 1252276658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*. < 1252276660 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it on Win-esc myself, although I do always have some desktop free in the corners next to my toolbar as well < 1252276678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, your problem is that you use the mouse ;-) < 1252276688 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "losing input focus" is annoying because then "next window" and "previous window" don't work. To give something focus from keyboard, one has to use window list. < 1252276707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just always seemed to me like openbox is a WM designed to make pretty translucent screenshots with small fonts /shrug < 1252276728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is, but it works for me with 0% translucency. :-P < 1252276736 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main WM menu is Capslock+M here. :-) < 1252276769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish the automatic window managers actually made an attempt at intelligently managing them < 1252276775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "hurr, one to the left rest to the right" < 1252276779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "hurr, fibonacci spiral" < 1252276938 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the windows don't spin by themselves... < 1252276947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1252276965 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One WM had key combo which made current window start to spin... < 1252276982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1252276995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet sawfish :P < 1252277052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same WM also had stuff like window rotation with three degrees of freedom, window zooming (seperate from resizing) and that... < 1252277077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point Enlightenment was the WM that seemed most focused on the pretty tricks. < 1252277104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1252277111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enlightenment has always seemed crappy to me < 1252277135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if E17 is out yet :P < 1252277147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enlightenment allows you to have a grid of workspaces called virtual desktops. Switching between them is achieved by hurling the mouse cursor to the edge of the screen, at which the desktop appears to slide across to reveal the next. The maximum grid size is currently 8 by 8 desktops, and you can have 32 grids (each with a different background), making 2048 total possible desktop spaces." < 1252277151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1252277152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so surprised < 1252277167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 2048 desktops, fuck yeah < 1252277190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Users can enable a map of the desktops, in case they get lost, which is called the pager.) < 1252277197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enlightenment: So you can get lost in your desktops. < 1252277214 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2048 virtual desktops? I only have 11. :-( < 1252277218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11? < 1252277221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're crazy < 1252277237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DR16 has been the choice of power users and artists due to its low overhead, highly graphical, widely theme-able, extremely configurable, yet unobtrusive interface." < 1252277247 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(named "F2"-"F12"). < 1252277280 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess why there isn't "F1". < 1252277288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help? < 1252277365 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, CAPSLOCK+SHIFT+Fx hits three-key same-row/column restriction with x = 1. < 1252277377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut? < 1252277381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, keys. < 1252277398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what keyboard is capslock+shift+fx comfortable < 1252277402 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, one can't hit Capslock+Shift+F1. < 1252277419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can, with difficulty :) < 1252277433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a suitably skewed perspective I could claim to have 216 virtual desktops, since there's six independently selectable tags on all three monitors, and 6^3 = 216. Though from an even more wonky perspective I guess I could claim 262144, since you can select any combination of tags, and (2^6)^3 = 262144. < 1252277445 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Capslock+Shift+F1 just doesn't work. < 1252277454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: howso < 1252277509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess he means with a "on this keyboard" qualifier. < 1252277513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean 'pataphysically? < 1252277518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or physically < 1252277521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or softwhysically < 1252277534 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one hits three keys at once, the keys must either be in distinct rows in scan matrix or in distinct columns in scan matrix. < 1252277544 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise the third key won't register. < 1252277553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that is true with my keyboard, at least... < 1252277634 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the keys are located in scan matrix may vary depending on keyboard. But for any keyboard that uses scan matrix, that three-key restriction appiles. < 1252277653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ó_ó I've never heard about this before < 1252277658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do make keyboards completely without that problem; and I think quite many keyboards put the modifier keys "independently" recognizable. < 1252277663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems sucky. < 1252277677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the more expensive keyboards don't do that. < 1252277741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it depends on what sort of "expensive" it is; if it's just expensive-because-it-has-stylish-design they might not care. It's not like it hurts "normal use", especially if the modifier keys always work. < 1252277772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the key-jamming problem is not a new one; Star Control came with a keyboard testing thing you could use to pick up keys so that two people can play the melee game without problems. < 1252277774 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the only use where the scan matrix layout really matters is hotseat multiplayer games. < 1252277791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean like mechanical keyswitches < 1252277794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expensive < 1252277836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think full n-key rollover is very common even in expensive-like-that keyboards, but I don't have any empirical data on this. < 1252277842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_%28key%29 is about it. < 1252277846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not related to n-key rollover, is it? < 1252277857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just being able to hit a bunch of keys at once, not neccessarily in the same row/column. < 1252277864 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on this keyboard, left shift is part of normal scan matrix. Capslock+F1 is possible, Capslock+Shift+F1 isn't. < 1252277864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*necessarily < 1252277960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason you can't hit multiple keys is because of the matrix-style design. And it makes it sometimes rather nontrivial to find out which keys you can do. < 1252278001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had a rollover problem < 1252278005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this logi-illu one, I can hit 'q', 'w', 'e' and 'r' successfully, but if I keep those four pressed 't' won't register any more. < 1252278011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type at like 100wpm, but only ever hit one or two keys at a time. < 1252278051 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this keyboard, two key columns in main block (alphabet, numbers & co) are on same scan matrix column. < 1252278071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like it's an issue when typing. But when you have one person using wasd and a couple of "fire" and "special" buttons controlling one car, and another one with the cursor keys and another couple of buttons, it's trickier. < 1252278120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the second row I apparently can do 'a', 's', 'd', 'f' and 'g', but with all those down 'h' will no longer register. < 1252278136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 3-key rollover is considered essential for English touch typing. [3] < 1252278139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Wikipedia < 1252278147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't make any sense to me < 1252278171 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here second row registers only up to 'f'. 'g' won't register anymore. < 1252278215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the mechanical design does come to play too, when it comes to the speed how fast keys rise up and so on. Can't say I've had trouble *typing* with even the cheapest keyboards I've used. < 1252278238 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typing so fast that previous key doesn't have time to register as relased before next is pressed? < 1252278317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is certainly no gaming keyboard, I can't seem to find any two wasd-shaped sets of keys where you could successfully record all eight simultaneous keys; it just goes up to six. < 1252278370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never tried to press eight keys in a game at once. < 1252278376 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If keys register on positive edge, and there is no ghosting/jamming, then release delay (if not enough to cause false autorepeat), won't usually be problematic. < 1252278392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Maybe you haven't been multiplayering much with a single keyboard, then? < 1252278413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's true. < 1252278419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally use crazy invention like : Inter - net! < 1252278422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*net ! < 1252278456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: meh, hjkl-shaped > wasd-shaped < 1252278496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure that's true for gaming, especially if the game is usually played with cursor keys and the second player just needs a suitable replacement. < 1252278506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjkl sucks. < 1252278510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inter net! But it's so expensive, and my parents don't want me to keep the phone line busy all the time, and my 2400 bps modem gets so bad latency, and... well, no game supports that sort of thing anyway. < 1252278521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasd is perfectly intuitive, hjkl is just being contrarian for the fuck of it. < 1252278544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just hook up a modem and dial a friend running a Doom game < 1252278553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use ordinary telephone numbers! < 1252278563 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second in main block is usually ijkl, with actions being something like 'b'. < 1252278585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that, but it's still expensive, and has the phone-line-busy problem, and anyway only a tiny fraction of games supported modem-based multiplayer. < 1252278588 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(first being wsad, with actions being tabs, and various left modifiers). < 1252278626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just run a looooooong ps/2 cable to your friend < 1252278629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to another keyboard < 1252278634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila! in-ter net < 1252278706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warcraft 2 did, and ROTT, and Descent, and obviously Doom; but none of the cave-flying games like kops, v-wing, luola; eh, I guess that genre is not so widespread outside Finland, really. < 1252278728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those sound fun < 1252278747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slicks'n'Slide, too... actually I think that's a Finnish invention too. < 1252278755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were the game mechanics of these... cave-flying ames < 1252278762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.luolamies.org/software/luola/screens/screen6.png ;; looks great < 1252278765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just lik... fly < 1252278767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like < 1252278770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*looks great < 1252278783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and shoot your friends with a multitude of weapons. < 1252278810 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least if you still have flyable ship)... < 1252278821 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252278830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, and if you hit things you die? < 1252278832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; v-wing lets you continue with just your "guy" when the ship goes boom. < 1252278851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on settings, but usually bumping into things does take up some of your health. < 1252278860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the levels are usually bitmap files (or a few of them) so there's quite a variety of levels available. < 1252278863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds fun. < 1252278877 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should just all play falling sand < 1252278878 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ship from Luola has ejector seat... < 1252278897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling sand kind of doesn't have any game mechanics < 1252278909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly true < 1252278915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1252278921 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not vanilla sand < 1252278926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other versions < 1252278935 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252278942 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the standard equipment for player moving on foot includes parachute and ninja rope... < 1252278948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm like < 1252278953 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus some kind of peashooter. < 1252278959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ninja rope stolen from Worms or the other way around? < 1252278972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dgame.com < 1252278975 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1252278981 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid make is slowing my computer down < 1252278993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dgame.com < 1252278993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you need, when you need it < 1252279011 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stolen poorly from Worms. The one in Worms is much more useful. < 1252279027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well, the whole flying thing is basically identical to the super sheep in worms ofc < 1252279035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except... shooting < 1252279043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt that was stolen < 1252279047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's pretty obvious < 1252279077 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wxSand < 1252279082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have wxsan < 1252279082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1252279085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no game mechanics. < 1252279092 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the mods do < 1252279143 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also in Luola if ship got destroyed and the player got to docking pad on foot, one got new ship... < 1252279179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads this luola thing in the hope it has single-player AI < 1252279197 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also modes where players start on foot and level has N (or N-1 in another) ships scattered around. < 1252279279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also that "N players run around with Worms-style ninja-rope and shoot the others" game; or I think at least two of them. Don't remember the names. < 1252279348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called "Worms" < 1252279393 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liero was ~first such game with 2-players. I have also played one such game over the net (back when I had 56K, which was actually 33.6k modem). < 1252279418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Liero is ridiculously fun < 1252279478 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also played Liero on Xbox (using the standard Xbox controllers). Didn't run very well. < 1252279494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liero's ninja rope is a bitch, though < 1252279511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact all ninja ropes apart from Worms 2 onward seem to really suck < 1252279548 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in Luola is probably the worst I have seen. < 1252279611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, Liero and some clone of it. < 1252279648 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't there at least 3 OSS one that allow N players? Soldat, NiL and Bankiz... < 1252279666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right MoleZ; and it was in fact the one that came before Liero. < 1252279716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liero -- wikipedia knows all this important information. < 1252279786 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sometimes programming course has project subject to make (simple) Liero clone... Some years ago one such course produced two more liero clones... < 1252279821 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably not found anywhere anymore)... < 1252279829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, Luola has no AI. < 1252279835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or networked multiplayer. < 1252279862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What that means: you need some real friends. :p < 1252279867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft. < 1252279868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As if. < 1252279899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kops is open source nowadays, too: http://jet.ro/kops/ -- it's a bit different from the other cave-fliers, though, may be an acquired taste. < 1252279904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (as opposed to all the chatbots I talk to in here?) < 1252279948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But Kops won't have an AI either, or networked multiplayer for that matter.) < 1252280006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kops is also the reason why I wrote that "VNC client with keyboard only", since we needed to play it with two keyboards to avoid the multiple-keys issues. < 1252280022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252280103 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, Xinput won't let you treat another keyboard as just another input device? :-) < 1252280131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was just the DOS version back then. < 1252280156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it ran under Windows, even with a VNC server running. < 1252280160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had some palette issues, though. < 1252280262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy nowadays since you can just stick in more and more USB keyboards. < 1252280273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFINITE DAISY-CHAINED USB KEYBOARDS < 1252280295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know whether Windows handles multiple USB keyboards, but one can always hope. < 1252280327 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those that like to do the same with mice, there's MPX... :-) < 1252280394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also just have multiple single-pointer-controlling devices and have the players fight with it. < 1252280403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPX + pointer warping = Trippy, man. < 1252281408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1252283119 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252283250 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252284222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am from the future < 1252284237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I traveled from 1992 to hear you say that. < 1252284246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i can reference xkcd < 1252284250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am culturally relevant" < 1252284266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and socially respectable, also." < 1252284275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the future we have no folly < 1252284339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa you can do < 1252284340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do < 1252284343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : foo < 1252284347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (blah); < 1252284349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks so wrong. < 1252284495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what language? < 1252284577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1252284586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just part of the general if (x) y thing < 1252284592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can do it for do/while, which looks freaky! < 1252284599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also. < 1252284604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer K&R declarations < 1252284605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I insane? < 1252284654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252284668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but < 1252284672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer a proper typesystem. < 1252284672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(argc,argv) < 1252284675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know right there < 1252284678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's passing argc and argv < 1252284680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's helpful < 1252284681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1252284682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int argc; < 1252284684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok we want an int < 1252284687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *argv[]; < 1252284688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1252284689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1252284692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(int argc, char *argv[]) < 1252284695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the names are buried < 1252284698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to digest it all at once < 1252284701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't very procedural < 1252284781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just crazy :( < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "modern" C looks so ugly. < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unreadable. so much metacruft. < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K&R is a bit redundant, but the problem is that it has no type-safety < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(argc,argv) < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int argc; < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *argv[]; < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that not type safe < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the caller sees "int foo (var)" and has no idea what to pass < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely agree about the ugliness < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz see ↑ < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standards committee refuses to add keywords :( < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K&R is *easier* to digest < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get some semi-descriptive names, so you know the general order; and then you can poke at the indented bit next (up to unindented { - very easy to spot) and see the specific types for each < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this also makes it easier to read linearly too < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great. what is argc? < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, mistype < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[int < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(argc,argv) < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int argc; < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *argv[]; < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with more indentation < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean the declaration < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a tab before those argc/argv type lines < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the definition it's fine < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well sure < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the declaration, do < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int,char*[]) or something < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because declarations are shit < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just hacks for compilers < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't really care about style in declarations < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declarations are also hacks for people < 1252285147 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEOPLE SUCK < 1252285147 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREW PEOPLE < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. declarations are a portal to perfect understanding of a function < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why we don't have any man pages. < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : execve(const char *path, char *const argv[], char *const envp[]); < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shazam! < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know comprehend everything about execve < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a fan of a manpage-per-function approach < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : snprintf(char *restrict s, size_t n, const char *restrict format, ...); < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course! < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: still < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentation < 1252285147 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : void *mmap(void *addr, size_t length, int prot, int flags, < 1252285147 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int fd, off_t offset); < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oh! It's obvious! < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I agree. Still easier to scan a file than load up the documentation and attempt to track something down < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :header files never include docs. < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use C++ < 1252285147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252285147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about I just stab my eyes out with a brick wall < 1252285148 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252285154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then castrate myself by bashing my penis through my eye sockets repeatedly < 1252285158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lobotomising myself in the process < 1252285165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be significantly less painful < 1252285170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and way more enjoyable < 1252285176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, I think < 1252285180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be just the same < 1252285183 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead. At least I wouldn't have to listen to you complain about non-Haskell languages < 1252285198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because the only language I like is haskell < 1252285208 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He admits it! < 1252285208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you don't even get to say anything. you *like* c++ < 1252285219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're basically like a jew < 1252285221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a black person < 1252285222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did I say I like C++ < 1252285227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insignificant and never has any useful opinions! < 1252285229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: in here < 1252285236 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you misread me < 1252285266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said I program C++ by choice, I did not say I like the language < 1252285289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then, you're into masochism < 1252285360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should do some homework < 1252285408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252285473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another C peeve: < 1252285480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is main() of type int, dammit < 1252285485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes people use return in one function < 1252285488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exit() in another < 1252285508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be void and the caller of main() should have exit(0) afterwards. gr. < 1252286289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because C is a ridiculously inconsistent language. < 1252286346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, C++ headers are genuinely *awful*. < 1252286360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially for the standard template library. < 1252286362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1252286482 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep in mind that usu _start just calls exit with the return from main :P < 1252286841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I KNOW IT'S SO STUPID < 1252286850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to have been purposefully dense to do it this way. < 1252287066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KEN THOMPSON < 1252287068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DENNIS RITCHIE < 1252287070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRIAN KERNIGHAN < 1252287072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND OTHER PEOPLE < 1252287075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM GOING TO MURDER YOU < 1252287077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1252287179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://downloadmoreram.com/ < 1252287748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C needs things like != x → x = !x < 1252287894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C needs many things. < 1252287900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but < 1252287900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of which are in C++. < 1252287906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grid[x][y] = !grid[x][y] < 1252287910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hurr I suck cocks" < 1252287913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hurr I make you repeat" < 1252287916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1252287919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!= grid[x][y] < 1252287922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hurr because i suck cocks" < 1252287925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i am C" < 1252287927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hello" < 1252288618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sites.google.com/site/ryanbroomfield/xkcd-sans-women < 1252288717 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252289345 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252290853 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252290881 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "Sgeo-cybernetics"? < 1252290918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the flying fuck are we meant to know?!?!?!! < 1252290927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ccbb.biosci.utexas.edu/seminars.html < 1252290938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just thinks it's humerous < 1252290960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:01:35 http://ccbb.biosci.utexas.edu/seminars.html < 1252290960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:01:47 "The term "Sgeo-cybernetics" was first proposed in 2005 by Reyes et.al." < 1252290960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-06-24 < 1252290989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googled for Sgeo-cybernetics, but found no further information < 1252291003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ < 1252291008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your memory is short < 1252291033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The term "Sgeo-cybernetics" was first proposed in 2005 by Reyes et.al." . I meant further than that < 1252291061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2008-06-24" < 1252291068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned this more than a year ago < 1252291077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1252292255 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252292869 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252293775 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252294144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Fri Aug 07 2009 Kristian Høgsberg - 2.8.0-4 < 1252294144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Add dri2-page-flip.patch to enable full screen pageflipping. < 1252294144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fixes XKCD #619. < 1252294146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=126369 < 1252294270 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.explosm.net/comics/1785/ Everyone must watch this. Everyeone. < 1252294273 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Everyone < 1252294324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyanide and happiness eh < 1252294327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a guess GregorR < 1252294333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it involve sex or murder < 1252294340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or insults < 1252294347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a stretch i know < 1252294352 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the first two: Only extremely proximally. To the latter: No. < 1252294362 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an animation. And it's unbelievable. It's ... omg just watch it. < 1252294365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure this is a cyanide and happiness production < 1252294369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also does it requirea udio. < 1252294373 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252294379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252294380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will, once Code::Blocks is installed, write his own linked list implementation, to see if he can < 1252294392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow Sgeo, you can write your own linked list implementation using an IDE < 1252294395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Master programmer. < 1252294399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must be so proud of yourself. < 1252294404 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, because linked lists are a wildly difficult beast :P < 1252294414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. You need a whole installed IDE to tackle them. < 1252294427 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's the debugging. < 1252294432 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too lazy to figure out gcc or g++ or whatever >.> < 1252294434 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Inevitably you'll have segfaults up the wazoo < 1252294452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: stab. < 1252294460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please kill yourself :| < 1252294476 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hahahah < 1252294485 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read the name, I thought that was ehird making fun of Sgeo. < 1252294490 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's too stupid of a statement otherwise. < 1252294495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252294654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: o_O < 1252294669 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Watchin' the awesomeness? 8-D < 1252294677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finished < 1252294689 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS IT NOT AWESOME?! < 1252294737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird < 1252294797 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahaha < 1252294812 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so wonderfully dramatic! < 1252296371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/XZMPOHm8 < 1252296785 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-191.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252296848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're so special. < 1252296859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bool result = true; < 1252296860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : result *= !(this->next()) || (this->next()->prev() == this); < 1252296860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : result *= !(this->prev()) || (this->prev()->next() == this); < 1252296860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return result; < 1252296865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ladies and gentlemen < 1252296872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is retarded at boolean logic < 1252296892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After I posted it, I realized that I should have replaced the || with && and gotten rid of the ! < 1252296900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how yours isn't even a linked list, just a node < 1252296907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the user has to handle pushing himself. < 1252296914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*themself < 1252297345 0 :Tenacity!n=john@c-75-66-41-100.hsd1.tn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252297368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tenacity. < 1252297373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how...tenacious? < 1252297374 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No way of changing the prev_item slot. < 1252297376 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ti < 1252297382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who you be. < 1252297383 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY tenacious < 1252297387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite so < 1252297391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are tenacity incarnate < 1252297398 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed I am < 1252297408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now who are you, scoundrel. < 1252297418 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scoundrel?! < 1252297425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1252297445 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've hardly had a chance to earn that title < 1252297463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, let's ask a more direct question < 1252297468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you come from < 1252297470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...scoundrel < 1252297537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just meant to be me practicing making a class in C++, nothing major < 1252297537 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I come from the internet < 1252297562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anybody who can't write a good linked list implementation in 5 minutes is a bad programmer, simple as < 1252297570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tenacity: we stab tricksy people, btw. < 1252297574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least I do. < 1252297599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this channel is about programming languages. < 1252297603 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, i shall don my stab proof armour, over my flame retardant armour < 1252297603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just making sure. < 1252297611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flame ... retard < 1252297613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like. < 1252297616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i right. < 1252297637 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-/ < 1252297638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i right Tenacity. < 1252297662 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right about what? being a bad programmer? < 1252297672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea. < 1252297680 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. < 1252297685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you'd better not be here for the esoterick magick. that only goes on in the backroom. < 1252297696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stringent initiation procedures and all. < 1252297721 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic. Well I shall keep my intentions well hidden until then < 1252297723 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252297734 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252297914 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no summoning in this channel? < 1252298031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely, cough, not. < 1252299155 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow... < 1252299163 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just read that RollerCoaster Tycoon was entirely assembly < 1252299173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252299186 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that game is awesome < 1252299332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : now who are you, scoundrel. <-- i'm going to assume you secretly know Tenacity from before, as otherwise i think this channel is _really_ going downhill < 1252299339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't :P < 1252299366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you just think it is getting too crowded in here? < 1252299380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't actually, you know, being serious < 1252299556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am of the persuation that one should actually know people a bit before teasing them with insults. you may have heard of this concept called "misunderstandings". < 1252299794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when you consider the general rowdy atmosphere of this place I think anyone who gets offended enough to leave by the amusingly archaic insult "scoundrel" has no chance... < 1252299807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i'd say that prolly applies to the internet in general. < 1252299834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's archaic? i may have missed some nuance here... < 1252299860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"scoundrel" evokes images of top hats and curled moustaches. < 1252299903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats ehird severely with his cane O========O < 1252299919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cane or double-ended penis < 1252299922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you decide. < 1252299933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _knew_ i shouldn't have tried to draw that. < 1252300039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (Rare on topic message for newcomers)!((0)(1)):^!S(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ < 1252300040 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110 ...too much output! < 1252300083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders when the last one was, but is too lazy to find out < 1252300089 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dons his scoundrel hat and 'stache* < 1252300120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tenacity: yeah, dickwad. < 1252300127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that humour i did there < 1252300133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i defended my jokingly archaic insult < 1252300144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and followed up a mention of it with a decidedly non-archaic insult! < 1252300148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call me mr humour. < 1252300176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i have this vague recall of #esoteric being an unusually friendly place, once upon a time. < 1252300207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm friendly! as long as you always agree with me. < 1252300220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, blame AnMaster. :P < 1252300234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i blame the Malicious Duo < 1252300295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i also have this vague recall of it often being on topic, but that may be just confirmation bias. < 1252300317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i read logs from 2002. < 1252300328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs were a rare topic < 1252300354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bias it is, then. < 1252300370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mostly life-related chat tbh. also i remember skimming through logs and seeing lament make a sarcastic comment about it being a channel about manga and lack of a social life, not esolangs. < 1252300390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now manga we haven't had for a while i think < 1252300393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though 2005-2007 was quite an esolangy era in my estimation < 1252300407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Golden Age < 1252300412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm totally the channel's official archivist. < 1252300422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1252300441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1252300442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/04.01.01 < 1252300443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woggle < 1252300544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: to reminisce of more esotericy times, try http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.10.05 < 1252300550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is worryingly long and esoteric < 1252300583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric? < 1252300587 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds vaguely ontopic! < 1252300591 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynch him < 1252300600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's my point! < 1252300607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it truly was a dark era. < 1252300624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway we've gotten steadily more active over the years, never dropping more than slightly < 1252300635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i suppose from a pure activity point of view this is the best! < 1252300735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits back before he gets nostalgia overload < 1252300746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can die of that. < 1252300776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i used to do that back in the day. *AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA* < 1252301563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252302835 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252302840 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252303832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tenacity, new here? < 1252303946 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252303953 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252304273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252304513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1252304529 0 :Tenacity!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252304805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252307837 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With JSON, you can make the commas and colons optional to save some space. {"foo"1"bar"[1,2nulltrue3]} < 1252307978 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are only needed to separate one number from another. < 1252308128 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252308386 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252310399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252310400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252310568 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252311489 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't foo: shorter than "foo"? < 1252311714 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then more commas are required, too be able to discern between '"foo1"' and '"foo", 1'. 'null', 'true' and 'false' would also need to be surrounded by separators. < 1252311766 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 'null', 'true' and 'false' are the only word-like values, they do not need to be surrounded by separators. < 1252311785 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252311952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this "you could make", or actually "you are right now allowed to make"? I mean, at least the RFC4627 defining the application/json MIME type has a BNF that explicitly requires value-separators (commas) and name-separators (colons). < 1252312368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess you're allowed to make whatever you want; it's just that it sounded like "you can just do this and it'll work with existing JSON parsers and everything". < 1252312543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it when two different course-info-reporting systems are in conflict with each other; one says there's a lecture right now and the other says there isn't. Of course I only noticed the former and now I'm at school with nothing to do < 1252312848 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "you could make"... but then it wouldn't be JSON. < 1252313457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oodi and Noppa, or something else? < 1252313466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, those to < 1252313468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two* < 1252313478 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Oodi being the incorrect one this time < 1252313501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter should get lecture information from the former, though. Except that I guess people only list exceptions in Noppa newsposts and so on. < 1252313552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe the data transfer from one to another was more of a theoretical thing, actually; I think I remember manually adding lectures to Noppa. < 1252313671 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a separate news item in Noppa saying that lectures start on tuesday < 1252313687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual lecture time data probably states monday in both places. < 1252313808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, well, given that Oodi is this mysterious hulking beast, I'm not surprised they don't list "hey, let's skip the technically first lecture and start on Tuesday" decisions there. < 1252313902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the AI course, it was reasonably simple to get the per-course "admin" bit set for my Noppa account, but we didn't even try to get me officially registered as the course-responsible-person-guy in Oodi, it seemed far too difficult. < 1252313918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, great < 1252313954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what's going to happen to the AI course now that the professor who used to be lecturing it has left. < 1252328458 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252328458 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252328458 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252328459 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252328459 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252328459 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252328655 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252328655 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252328655 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252328655 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252328655 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1252328655 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252329067 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252331300 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252331632 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252332037 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-6-0.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252332734 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252335467 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1252339430 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-181.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252340767 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252341235 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252342459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Hard to keep a project under wraps and get an audience at the same < 1252342459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time, it is. I do realise it was inevitable LKML would invade my < 1252342459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personal space no matter how much I didn't want it to, but it would be < 1252342459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rude of me to not respond.]] < 1252342460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Con Kolivas, on the audacity of *someone on LKML benchmarking his scheduler!!!!!* < 1252343248 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252343455 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-111-074.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252345219 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252345291 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252345462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1252345500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess he should administrate some of that anaesthetic to himself huh? Oh I'm so witty. < 1252345800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252350089 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252351171 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252351232 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252351279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1252353053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ntp is good: < 1252353055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 Sep 20:50:35 ntpdate[9865]: adjust time server 192.36.143.153 offset 0.000063 sec < 1252353067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite accurate it managed to keep my clock < 1252353170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's on my desktop though, it seems less able to sync on my laptop < 1252355241 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.042874s here. Last sync was who knows how many days ago. But I set clock rate correction manually (not running ntpd): < 1252355255 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252355357 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction parameters: Frequency: 1 957 969, Tick: 10 000. < 1252356197 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252356403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I run ntpd and it has been running continuously for weeks now < 1252356403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my laptop it is far from as good < 1252356403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, also what are those parameters for/from? < 1252356440 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They are kernel parameters controlling clock rate correction. Tick is left at default value, frequency is computed from ntp time step data. < 1252356473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus... how much frequency is off varies over time due to stuff like temperature of the clock source in the computer and so on < 1252356482 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tick is coarse correction and frequency is fine correction. < 1252356509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why are you setting it manually? < 1252356695 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356696 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356696 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356698 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356698 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356699 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356699 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356699 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356700 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356700 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356700 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356700 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356701 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356701 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356701 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356701 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356701 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356701 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356701 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356702 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356702 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356702 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356702 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356702 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356703 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356703 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356703 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356703 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356704 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356704 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356704 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356705 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252356773 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-181.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-191.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356773 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252356862 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357067 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357117 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357383 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357384 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357384 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357384 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357384 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357385 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357385 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357385 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357385 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357385 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357385 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357385 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357385 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357386 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357386 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357386 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357386 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357386 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357386 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357386 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357386 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357386 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357435 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@67-40-212-106.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-181.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-191.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357435 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357663 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357663 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357664 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357664 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357664 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357664 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357665 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357665 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357665 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357665 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357665 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357665 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357665 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357665 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357666 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357666 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357666 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357666 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357666 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357666 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357666 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357666 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357667 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357667 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357667 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357668 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357668 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357668 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357669 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357758 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@67-40-212-106.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-181.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-191.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357758 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357823 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357823 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357823 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357823 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252357882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, < 1252357882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: tick is coarse correction and frequency is fine correction. < 1252357882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm ok < 1252357882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : still, why not ntpd < 1252357882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the netsplit < 1252357882 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because its name ends in 'd'? I definitely want to keep everything listening to the net at minimum. < 1252357883 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I wouldn't have a firewall, but still. < 1252357883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, you can set it to not provide a server < 1252357883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just be a client < 1252357883 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. But clock on this computer isn't that important. < 1252357885 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252357885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This desktop of mine has recently (er, well, "not always"; it has been quite a while) somehow caught the habit of having a horrible clock drift; something like 2 milliseconds per second. (So almost three minutes per day.) < 1252357892 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast or slow? < 1252357901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow, I think. < 1252357911 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So looks like its losing ticks... < 1252358117 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358118 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358119 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358119 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358119 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358120 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358120 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358120 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358120 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358120 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358120 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358120 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358121 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358121 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358121 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358121 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358121 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358121 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358122 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358122 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358122 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358122 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358123 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358123 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358124 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358124 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358124 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358124 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358125 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358125 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358125 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252358250 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-155-77-68.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :nescience!n=myndzi@67-40-212-106.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-181.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :comex_!i=comex@c-98-210-198-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :lifthrasiir!i=hjTj0ki3@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-191.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358250 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358272 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358272 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358279 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-111-074.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358287 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358415 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1252358629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and dmesg prints out "Clocksource tsc unstable (delta = -152506783 ns)" immediately after loading the nvidia binary blob; might be related. < 1252358689 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that could explain things... < 1252358713 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252358753 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite odd that TSC (processor time stamp counter) would become unstable. < 1252358788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternative blame-target is the vboxdrv module; it also prints out TSC/timing-related messages, like "vboxdrv: TSC mode is 'asynchronous', kernel timer mode is 'normal'." < 1252358795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should investigate this some day. < 1252358900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... why would someone advertise US healthcare insurance to a .co.uk email address? < 1252359038 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spammers usually aren't very careful in restricting spam distribution... < 1252360392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, should've quit while I was ahead; there was a "current_clocksource" file in sysfs, and since available_clocksources listed many (hpet, acpi_pm, jiffies, tsc) decided to echo those one by one into current_clocksource to see if the drift keeps happening for all. Current was hpet, acpi_pm didn't really cause any effects, but when I put "jiffies" in there, everything hung up "needs-sysrq"-badly. < 1252360572 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, system clock freezing probably does not do good to system function. < 1252360784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quite odd that TSC (processor time stamp counter) would become unstable. < 1252360798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that here, due to cpu frequency changes < 1252360811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my system use HPET < 1252360887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I would recommend using not changing that except at boot < 1252360896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the clocksource parameter < 1252360904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I had crashes when changing on the fly < 1252360970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1252361033 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252361034 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252361034 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252361034 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252361077 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252361125 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252361125 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1252361128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it seemed like a bad idea. < 1252361152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't do cpufreq on the desktop (because it's unable to), so I'm still blaming one of those modules. < 1252361187 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252361208 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( lack of shockwave player on linux (closely related to ":( who the fuck uses shockwave") < 1252361284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a five minutes of incomprehension on "what, Ubuntu doesn't have the Flash player suitably packaged?", before realizing that not supporting Linux/PPC isn't really their fault. < 1252361495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash and Shockwave are different < 1252361499 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Shockwave has a Mac version < 1252361512 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Ubuntu does have a Flash installer package that works fine < 1252361576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have a PowerPC Flash installer package, because the only PowerPC-supporting Flash player is for OS X. < 1252361627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know they are different. I don't think I knew about Shockwave's Mac version, though; but really, why would someone use shockwave nowadays? < 1252361672 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lego site does :( < 1252361680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only Shockwave app I can think of offhand is that Habbo Hotel chat-place. < 1252362390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, for a moment I thought you meant there was some Flash app that installed Ubuntu < 1252362401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252362828 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252363334 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a good flash game that makes him think, but not too hard < 1252363429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggestions? < 1252364729 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252365424 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252365492 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252365820 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252365826 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252365851 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1252366744 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252367304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can mes hab ball 4 slide pweaze yuhs neber gabezz it tew mes thankiez yuhz < 1252367321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes what that's intended to say < 1252367993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252369570 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of wish I couldn't tell what it says. < 1252369801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should give this person the ball. < 1252369817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But right now, I'm trying to apply brain bleach to my eyes < 1252370406 0 :iano!n=iosgood@076-076-146-052.pdx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252371132 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252376785 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-110-078.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252377557 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252378714 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252378739 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is something wrong with my internet, I don't know who to ask (technical support says nothing is wrong on their end). < 1252378753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inbound connections to port 70 don't work (it worked yesterday) < 1252378783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firewall update? < 1252378797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any software changes? Firewall changes? Router changes? Do inbound connections to other ports work? < 1252378840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O no, I checked everything. The router settings are correct, the service works (connecting to localhost works), inbound connections on port 80 still work, outbound connections on port 70 work, and when using a proxy I get the same results. < 1252378904 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked the DNS, tried stopping and restarting the service, rebooting the router, everything else too. < 1252378948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it worked yesterday. < 1252378957 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I ask for help? < 1252378973 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I don't know, so I tried this channel for nearly no reason < 1252379167 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pandora stores passwords in plain-text! < 1252379207 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no software change or firewall change or router change. < 1252379238 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port 25 doesn't work either < 1252379276 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technical support says they didn't change anything, but I'm not sure they know about it correctly. < 1252379277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you on a university/college network? < 1252379282 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm at home. < 1252379309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port 25 isn't always open anyways (I just started the SMTP server to test it, and it failed) < 1252379316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/plain-text// < 1252379339 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But port 70 is definitely work, by localhost, but not by remote. Port 80 works local and remote. < 1252379413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it worked fine yesterday. < 1252379688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252380761 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone explain to me why a P9500 is so much more expensive than a T9600. Please don't lecture me, etc. hardware is boring and I just want to know what reason I may have to buy a slower machine < 1252382233 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1252385896 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1252385903 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :""Ubuntu", an african word meaning, "Gentoo is too hard for me"" < 1252385986 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252387261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252387401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1252388535 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252388811 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252391641 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252392180 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252392434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: that joke's normally done with Debian rather than Gentoo < 1252392648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "African word for 'can't install Debian'" is the form I'm more familiar with. < 1252392743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See for example urbandictionary.com, which has as the first meaning: "1. ubuntu: Ubuntu is an ancient african word, meaning "I can't configure Debian"." (Admittedly that's not "install" there.) < 1252392793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I did not know is that "ubuntu" apparently also means: "To ejaculate on a womans face." < 1252393837 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252395499 0 :FireFly!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-pvxcqrirxlvuishl JOIN :#esoteric < 1252395607 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252395630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the structure of bantu languages in mind, ubuntu and gentu could easily be forms of the same word... not so with debian. < 1252395656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bantu and ubuntu are, for one thing) < 1252395681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: urbandictionary is full of duff meanings < 1252396379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252396624 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-ykzmydlgwvhsrkre JOIN :#esoteric < 1252396799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252396800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252398440 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252398941 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252399396 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252401651 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252401959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/bfs-faq.txt < 1252401966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, I don't think it's actually written in brainfuck < 1252401980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still trying to figure out if the name's a reference or not, though < 1252403695 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252405276 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-widbmolsuaxshxmd JOIN :#esoteric < 1252405338 0 :FireFly!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-rcaonzhbvsvrqtss JOIN :#esoteric < 1252405946 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252407118 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252411020 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1252413024 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252415018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, it seems that Virgin Media have some sort of custom search page that comes up for pages like http://nosuchdomain.invalid < 1252415031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily it has an opt-out which AFAICT a) actually works, and b) doesn't use cookies < 1252415564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the slang term for that to "do a Verisign"? < 1252415723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I wonder how many $'s are implied by all the legal text at http://www.icann.org/en/general/litigation-verisign.htm < 1252415747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the lawyers that generated the text, I mean.) < 1252415965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if .invalid has an entry for it in the root DNS servers < 1252415979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a real TLD, after all; but there are (deliberately) no sites on it < 1252416264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least k.root-servers.net just says NXDOMAIN. < 1252416289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you choose k? < 1252416322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the Kewlest root-server of them all. < 1252416474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has this fancy anycast distributed thing: http://k.root-servers.org/ < 1252419422 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-3-78.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252419611 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good for you < 1252419622 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ISP has an opt-out, it doesn't use cookies, the real deal < 1252419625 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, it doesn't work < 1252419635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc I just opted-out everyone else on the same connection < 1252419638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's probably a good thing < 1252419670 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicking the button didn't do anything < 1252419673 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I switched to opendns < 1252419693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NXDOMAIN-replacement pages seem to have long caches < 1252419699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but new nonexistent pages work fine < 1252420044 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252420047 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252420078 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1252420510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252420584 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252422341 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252422763 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252423095 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1252423353 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252423646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1252424741 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252425149 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252425497 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-24-243.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252425659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc :) < 1252427130 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252427338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi, just home. < 1252427341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago < 1252427342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252427750 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-27-38.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252428436 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252429570 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252429824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have ELF and DWARF; where's ORC? < 1252430105 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always ORK < 1252430132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is DWARF an executable format? < 1252430275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a debug info format < 1252430338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I assume DWARF was a joke on ELF? < 1252430363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I assume so as well < 1252430408 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiki says it was, apparently < 1252430412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ORC should be something suitably evil. perhaps some kind of report format for pointy-haired bosses? < 1252430428 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be the Windows executable format < 1252430447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, isn't that PE? < 1252430454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... yes, it is < 1252430473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the three dots? < 1252430496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed you were refuting my statement < 1252430520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think there's a *whoosh* hidden inside the first dot there < 1252430528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252430540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using such a lossy compression scheme < 1252430584 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not among my habits to tell people "you missed/misunderstood my joke" < 1252430598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather just assume they're idiots and leave it at that < 1252430830 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252430871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does me scoring top marks at a math exam signify I wonder... < 1252430957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ehird isn't here. guess that is why he hasn't made any foul remark yet < 1252431277 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adam_d < 1252431808 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252432621 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got an idea for esolang. The actual runtime would execute code in tree form. Before running, the source would be run through preprocessor which built the tree for running, also containing operations to modify what's already built (move substrees, copy subtrees, delete subtrees). So that for any program X and tree Y, there exists Z such that X is prefix of Z and processes to Y. < 1252432790 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-152-21.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252432828 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sheds a tear in memory of Malcom, the 1TB hard drive, who died before his time :'( < 1252432887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any algorithms that have an exponential memory upper bound but a linear upper time bound? < 1252432901 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1252432913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah, as I suspected < 1252433045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot use more memory than time in a sequential algorithm < 1252433087 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the other way around, you can't use more than exponentially more time than you use memory. < 1252433112 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So PSPACE is subset of EXPTIME. < 1252433206 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, the preprocessor could patch anything already built into anything. < 1252433412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what preprocessor? < 1252433418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C one? < 1252433429 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For an esolang... < 1252433449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1252433521 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its just at idea stage... One has to define what operations are supported and what their semantics are. < 1252433628 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the preproc, insert node, delete subtree, copy subtree, move subtree could be good set of operations... < 1252433645 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and alter node. < 1252433688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alter ego < 1252433838 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have various versions of source in one file, with next patching the previous, and the code quickly becomes too convoluted to follow... < 1252433844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what about paste subtree < 1252433849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it some evil editing script like < 1252433884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a copy-and-paste preprocessor XD < 1252433903 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, cut-n-paste => move, copy-n-paste => copy. < 1252433963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yes hm but it should only have one copy buffer to hold the thing < 1252433991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should be as an edit script or so < 1252434000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly recordable XD < 1252434052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The edit preprocessor being complicated isn't the idea. The idea is to make the actual program (parse tree) effectively unfollowable by patching it bit-by-bit. < 1252434064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1252434095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, it would be another interesting preprocessor that was basically copy-and-paste operation (what then is the point of a preprocessor one could ask!) < 1252434116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, would you have macros? < 1252434177 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably no... Would make things too logical. < 1252434221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, depends on the macros... I mean you can make quite a mess with both C macros and LISP macros < 1252434340 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff like: ADD 1 SEQUENCE; ADD 1.1 PRINT "World"; ADD 1.2 PRINT "!"; ADD 1.1 PRINT " "; ADD 1.1 PRINT "Hello"; ALTER 1.2 PRINT ", "; < 1252434433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm, what is 1.1 and so on < 1252434440 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Node pointer. < 1252434509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252434536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, obfuscation seems rather optional here, I mean, nothing prevents you from writing non-obfuscated programs? < 1252434567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADD 1 SEQUENCE; ADD 1.1 PRINT "Hello world"; < 1252434569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume < 1252434572 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252434611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, one thing that could make it more confusing would be "RENAME SEQUENCE" < 1252434613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1252434617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to name 1 something else < 1252434639 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ADD 1 SEQUENCE; ADD 1.1 PRINT "Hello, World!"; ... It also tends to become funky when building larger trees... < 1252434649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok that is true < 1252434679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what is the add sequence thing btw? < 1252434687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it case sensitive? < 1252434712 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SEQUENCE is just "run nodes below here in order" operator. < 1252434726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252434759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, this some similar to my SQL+HTML combination kind of < 1252434760 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it could be 'ADD 1 PRINT "Hello, World!"; if there was impiled SEQUENCE at root level. < 1252434781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, declaring a tree through a complex upper caseish language < 1252434833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was like INSERT THE ELEMENT p INTO THE ELEMENT body WHICH IS A CHILD OF html < 1252434845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then references to first and second and so on < 1252434865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was made to be very verbose English) < 1252434892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember exact syntax I had, and the irc logs from then are on archive cd < 1252434893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1252434902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime in this channel, 2008 or 2009 < 1252434941 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the references inside operations should maybe resolved when encountering them. Would do really funky things to code structure if one of the operations was GOTO... < 1252434966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252435000 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't jump forward unless you make some really messy code. < 1252435049 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course there would be equivalent to COBOL ALTER keyword: ALTER x.y.z GOTO a.b.c;... :-) < 1252435113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"NVG server going down in a moment" < 1252435117 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALTER from COBOL is quite probably the nastiest operation (from mainintance p.o.v.) ever seen in any mainstream language. < 1252435170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I don't know what this ALTER does < 1252435209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what about the actual language though, the bit that will then run < 1252435220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be quite complex too IMO < 1252435244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you could just run preprocessor and dump the result to understand how the program worked < 1252435261 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change target of GOTO. And it had really nice interactions with segmentation. ALTER + segmentation => run away screaming... < 1252435262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and IMO goto is hell even from a coding point of view < 1252435280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, segmentation as in segmented memory on x86? < 1252435290 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like manual swapping. < 1252435295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1252435377 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obsoleted by virtual memory. Well, unless one wants to make stuff unmaintainable by mixing segmentation with ALTER. < 1252435444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, so why would segmentation and ALTER interact badly? < 1252435490 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, if segment containg ALTERed GOTOs was swapped out, the modifications to jumps were lost, so when reloading it, the jumps reset to their default destinations. < 1252435502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1252435523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that sounds like "reset" rather than "swap out whatever is in memory" < 1252435580 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap out really freed the memory occupied by segment. < 1252435628 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there would be space to load another segment in. < 1252435679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and discarded any data in it? < 1252435732 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One probably also could swap out data segments. Those didn't reset when reloading. < 1252435833 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it assumed that code segments are always 'clean' (and ALTER broke that assumption). < 1252435956 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, this was on era when even virtual memory wasn't common on mainframes... < 1252436047 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even mainframes didn't have multitasking but ran the tasks batch-style. < 1252436384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, have you ever coded COBOL? < 1252436410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, let me clarify that < 1252436421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever had a job where you coded COBOL? < 1252436492 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I haven't coded COBOL. Just ran across that information about COBOL once. < 1252436591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL was actually less awful than many people give it credit. It was designed long before we had *any* clue what makes a good programming language. < 1252436605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only other languages out there were the languages that COBOL was based on. < 1252436611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and assembly. < 1252436700 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN. < 1252436718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algol and co. of course as well. < 1252436893 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252436920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about LISP? < 1252436923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it later on? < 1252436954 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-27-38.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252437103 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was around the same time < 1252437133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252437449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello world! < 1252437455 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++>+<<<<-]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>-----. [459] < 1252437468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello world! < 1252437470 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :110 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>. [315] < 1252437475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Hello world! < 1252437478 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :126 ++++++++[>+++++++++>++++>+><<<<-]>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.>.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>++. [601] < 1252437532 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252437546 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-3-78.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252437655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work < 1252437836 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-103-56.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252437876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does what work? < 1252437920 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf_txtgen, how does it do its thing < 1252437965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, genetic algorithm based on the form "set constant, set some other constants based on the first, print stuff and use +/- as needed as you go along" < 1252437985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genetic? heh < 1252438027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well think so, or one of those other "find good value" thingies. I'm not sure if it does recombination or not < 1252438029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask GregorR < 1252438032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wrote it after all < 1252438053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!source < 1252438055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!info < 1252438056 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null < 1252438063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in that repo somewhere < 1252438068 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252438101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know what a good type to represent a tree would be in python? < 1252438110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything's a tree < 1252438112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of tree < 1252438120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, parse tree of loops for bf for example < 1252438140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, trying to learn python so decided to write a trivial non-optimising bf interpreter in it < 1252438195 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252438228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sanest way is to make [ have the stuff in the loop as it's "children" < 1252438241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the sanest way I can think of < 1252438253 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess just the basic thing: a class Node which contains a list of Nodes. < 1252438268 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or call it whatever you want, I tend to call stuff like that Node. < 1252438301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or a list containing either add,sub,print,read or a nested list? < 1252438307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does python have atoms? < 1252438367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, how does one define some arbitrary symbolic name to represent an abstract value? < 1252438378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C you would generally use an enum or #define it < 1252438390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erlang you just use an atom < 1252438400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and what do you do in python? < 1252438403 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1252438407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1252438419 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There appears to be a library for symbols, if that's what you want: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SymbolType < 1252438436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is it built into the language itself like enums and such? < 1252438442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a library" < 1252438463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libraries typically aren't builtin < 1252438464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't know how much a python library can change the language. Considering what can be done to perl... < 1252438490 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252438496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can look at the examples on that page, I believe < 1252438747 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252438774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to write a bf parser without tail recursion.... < 1252438776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait I have done this in C... < 1252438784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it shouldn't be any harder... < 1252438800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the tail recursion one would be a lot more elegant, sigh < 1252438840 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-162-187-246.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252439050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, python has no switch? < 1252439059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or case < 1252439100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a hash table < 1252439108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do you mean? < 1252439134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, put functions in a dictionary and call the relevant entry? < 1252439145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of switch (foo) { case x ... } you can have an AA with x as a key and call the function at foo < 1252439150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1252439165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AA? Anti Alias? < 1252439293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um one of the possible actions is returning from the function, I'm not sure how that could be acomplished < 1252439299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return to the caller? < 1252439302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the caller < 1252439330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it return false or whatever in that case < 1252439338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252439524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, any idea why: (loop, i) = parse_prog(program, i+1) < 1252439526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work < 1252439542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, python doesn't have pattern matching does it :( < 1252439542 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, various ideas < 1252439555 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to list them all in response to the problem description "doesn't work" < 1252439556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed the obvious and elegant way < 1252439562 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, it doesn't. < 1252439564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ValueError: too many values to unpack < 1252439569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting error < 1252439588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you're returning a pair from there always? < 1252439592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like you might not be < 1252439600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I wasn't always < 1252439605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it seems to work < 1252439607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's odd < 1252439704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok... wtf: mylist += 'foo' adds the element foo at the end as expected. mylist += ['foo', 'bar'] instead concatenates... < 1252439708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is illogical < 1252439722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I wanted to add the list as an element < 1252439723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1252439758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what I'd expect from a dynamic-type language like that < 1252439773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using + for concatenation is bad enough IMO :-P < 1252439792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh true < 1252439846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how does one reload a python module that one imported without exiting and restarting the REPL (or whatever you call the python interpreter shell thingy) < 1252439867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1252439901 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252440228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah #python says it is reload(module) but "don't do it, because stuff will break" < 1252440624 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252440628 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1252442499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, even worse: < 1252442510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mylist += ("a", "pair") < 1252442513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what that does? < 1252442522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add as element or concat? < 1252442553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me < 1252442558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, concat < 1252442561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes no sense < 1252442571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might, if lists and pairs are the same thing < 1252442576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether they are < 1252442580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, pairs are immutable < 1252442586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while lists aren't < 1252442601 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're essentially considered lists in that sense < 1252442610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I don't know enough either < 1252442619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mypair += list < 1252442621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't work < 1252442628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they aren't pairs, they are tuples actually < 1252442634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I use a 2-tuple here < 1252442637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which end up the same way < 1252442833 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-103-56.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252443324 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252443389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use in python to print a string with no following space or newline < 1252443656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print x, < 1252443763 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1252444735 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252445555 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Deewiant: I did not write bf_txtgen, calamari did. I didn't write most of what's in EgoBot, for that matter. < 1252445574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, well true, but thought you wrote that one < 1252445719 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-171.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252446165 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252449204 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252449648 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252449661 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252452160 0 :ehird!i=5b68f3f5@gateway/web/freenode/x-lfcohkepbcorgemk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252452168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have RSI now! :P < 1252452377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:48:24 can mes hab ball 4 slide pweaze yuhs neber gabezz it tew mes thankiez yuhz < 1252452377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1252452434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:08:36 s/plain-text// < 1252452438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pandora stores passwords in WHERE?! < 1252452456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:32:41 someone explain to me why a P9500 is so much more expensive than a T9600. Please don't lecture me, etc. hardware is boring and I just want to know what reason I may have to buy a slower machine < 1252452460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would answer, but you said hardware is boring. < 1252452469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:52:23 See for example urbandictionary.com, which has as the first meaning: "1. ubuntu: Ubuntu is an ancient african word, meaning "I can't configure Debian"." (Admittedly that's not "install" there.) < 1252452477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure Mark Pilgrim initiated it with "configure Debian" < 1252452513 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is it cache size or something? < 1252452522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what are the two costs? < 1252452533 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: like $100 difference < 1252452550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: one's newer. perhaps one uses 45nm and the other uses 60nm or something < 1252452557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: perhaps extra cache. a whole bunch of things. < 1252452566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: who are you buying this from? < 1252452578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erhid: Lenovo < 1252452601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both have the same cache, both are 45nm < 1252452618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: T9600 is more power-hungry < 1252452624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your battery will last longer on the P9500 < 1252452627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't say how much by < 1252452635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252452646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P9500 is slower in raw ghz, ofc < 1252452660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both have the same bus speed... < 1252452676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you care about battery life and don't need uber performance, get the P9500 < 1252452690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to save whole SECONDS on your gcc compile, get the T9600 < 1252452698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or if you want to save $$$, ofc) < 1252452709 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks < 1252452713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what model thinkpad, btw? < 1252452719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: T500 < 1252452739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. a wonderful lugbook :-P < 1252452776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1252452780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw, apparently there's more keyboard flex on the newer thinkpads of some models < 1252452782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ymmv < 1252452787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1252452789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the reviews < 1252452792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252452829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I'm getting an old ThinkPad for the 4:3ness... < 1252453008 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :( < 1252453023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the downsides to a new computer < 1252453033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love widescreen at 20" or bigger... < 1252453043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, ehh, I like laptops that fit on my lap < 1252453062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 14" 4:3 ThinkPad can fit on your lap, just like a 12" 16:10 ThinkPad < 1252453068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that the latter is useless as a main machine < 1252453100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but by getting an old model, I compromise on speed, battery life, heat and brighter displays :( < 1252453198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to mitigate the battery life I plan to use an UltraBay battery pack to replace the optical drive, but iirc the 14" Tsomething gets around 4.5-5 hours battery; I imagine I'll get up to 6 hours with the pack < 1252453212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't nearly as nice as the X200, which gets 9 hours on the 9-cell, but eh < 1252453244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed, I can manage as long as I have two cores; using an SSD should mitigate any silly clockspeed or architecture differences compared to my current machine < 1252453272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heat shouldn't be too much of a problem since thinkpads have always been cool < 1252453277 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSD is too costly :( < 1252453291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for a brighter display, nothing I can do. :-( < 1252453303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which kills any chance of using it outside, I guess < 1252453307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to see < 1252453325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah. on the other hand I'll probably save by getting an older model < 1252453328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1252453338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: downgrade the CPU to the minimum and add an SSD :-P < 1252453351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ssd is tiny < 1252453356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1252453360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max laptop drive nowadays, about 320gb < 1252453367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lenovo offers 128 and 256gb ssds < 1252453413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly even with the base CPU it might be too expensive, but it'll be way, way faster in general use than upping the CPU to the top option < 1252453435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not when doing CPU-intensive stuff, but that's so fast nowadays as tobe irrelevant < 1252453437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to be < 1252453626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lenovo rival apple in markup cost, which is irritating but understandable < 1252453686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it would be possible to rip out the backlight and replace it with a LED one :D < 1252453706 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they do allow unserviced upgrades < 1252453724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I'm not even sure if you can *do* that to a display < 1252453744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd have no hope of finding a 14" display of the right dimensions, with a LED backlit, and the right connectors < 1252453756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and a high resolution like you can get on the ThinkPad stock ones < 1252453768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply because there was no ThinkPad produced with such a display < 1252453779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :( < 1252453803 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPad is one of very few computers with the most important thing nowawadays :( < 1252453815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard, you mean? < 1252453816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also matte < 1252453840 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those matter, but the absolute most important thing is the nipple mouse < 1252453864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I'd be happy with Apple's wonderful large multitouch trackpad too, but failing that, yep < 1252453881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the looks of it, ThinkPads' trackpad is woefully bad < 1252453886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant < 1252453892 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried the multitouch touchpad though < 1252453893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying < 1252453912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I'll use it for is scrolling, since it looks bad. :P < 1252453916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the only *unsolved* problem I have is the display brightness, I think < 1252453930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use pageup/down for scrolling... call me old-fashioned < 1252453951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great way to give yourself a headache and slow yo udown while you try and find where you left off < 1252453956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1252454053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why the T500 over the T400, btw/ < 1252454054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1252454071 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penis size obv < 1252454090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: then you want the W700ds, duh < 1252454101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love that extraneous second screen < 1252454108 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252454121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and RAID. and quad-core. < 1252454129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a 3 minute battery life!!! < 1252454131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252454205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what I'll do! < 1252454219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a non-booting 14" 4:3, rip out the insides < 1252454223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop the insides of an X200 in < 1252454226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila < 1252454246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, saw the T400s display's sides off < 1252454251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252454258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the T500's, actually, to get the height < 1252454259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop it in < 1252454260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila!! < 1252454271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't I think of that before. < 1252454382 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252455601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252456701 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252456710 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252456723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1252456781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252456795 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252456808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, ChatZilla appears to be vaguely passable on windows < 1252456814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... unexpected, I guess < 1252456820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how much it sucks on OS X < 1252456865 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has not tried it on OS X and so cannot comment < 1252456874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful < 1252456935 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will take your word for it and subsequently ignore it and some later and more relevant time < 1252456947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it and/it at/ < 1252456969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's a very confusing sentence < 1252457243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252457251 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252457256 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252457846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://explainxkcd.com/ < 1252458050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful < 1252458068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This was wrong. David Gest has never had a sexually transmitted infection and did not have Ms Minnelli's dog killed." --The Daily Mail < 1252458080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a retraction letter < 1252458111 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1252458262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an easy mistake to make < 1252458288 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they keys are like right next to each other < 1252458309 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you know you're awesome when you are referencing bash :/) < 1252458326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"awesome" < 1252459240 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=1289971.1289983 <-- "Context-Aware Scanning for Parsing Extensible Languages" < 1252459914 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... a C++ parser? < 1252460471 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"." < 1252460882 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252461070 0 :Amiral_!n=amiral@gob75-2-81-56-65-10.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252461075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Amiral_ < 1252461077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who're you < 1252461085 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ;) < 1252461093 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was coming from http://frox25.no-ip.org/~mtve/wiki/ < 1252461095 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::] < 1252461141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1252461143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1252461155 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, i m searching the guy ;) < 1252461168 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need some help from his script < 1252461177 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's not there ? < 1252461196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure he is. < 1252461198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: < 1252461207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:53] === mtve: away with message “Disconnected now, messages are logged” < 1252461210 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool :] < 1252461213 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i saw that < 1252461216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What script, anyway? < 1252461222 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigtran < 1252461238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the heck it does. < 1252461238 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know ss7 sctp protocol ? < 1252461243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252461357 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, when do you think he can come ? < 1252463189 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-109-214.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252463892 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252463899 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252463922 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1252463941 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252464479 0 :Amiral_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252468342 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252471100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he could hack capability-based security into linux with users... < 1252471248 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252471815 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1252472016 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1252472095 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252472230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb coppro < 1252475169 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252475186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1252475196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1252475708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reboot" < 1252475926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252475951 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252476306 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it, I accidentally did "rm blah.avi.00* > blah.avi", instead of cat. now I have to download it again >:[ < 1252476660 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1252477068 0 :Patashu[CyberOrc!n=Patashu@c122-106-162-185.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1252477088 0 :Patashu[CyberOrc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252478447 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-3-119.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252478727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252479904 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252481458 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1252481605 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252482426 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252482703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252483138 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252483199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252483200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252483670 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252490586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which concepts are related to self-organizing maps? Yahoo knows: http://correlator.sandbox.yahoo.net/index.php/concepts/self-organizing+map < 1252490616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly it makes sense, but I find the fact that ""The Dark Horse Book of Witchcraft" is probably related to self-organizing map" a bit dubious. < 1252490768 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252492037 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252495117 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252496357 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252496357 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252496358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252496358 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252496449 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252497036 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-109-214.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252497036 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252497036 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252497644 0 :Nowicjusz!n=ppp@89.72.61.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252497649 0 :Nowicjusz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252499725 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252500397 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252500591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone < 1252500769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, you nobody. < 1252500783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1252500829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to be contrasty. < 1252500914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... today presented a data point in favour of the theory that knowing Java is nearly always sufficient to get a job < 1252501050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My personal experience has shown that knowing Perl is the most useful thing; two out of three of my employers have been mostly in search of someone who speaks Perl. < 1252501062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I know Perl too < 1252501079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, though, I've been employed to teach Java to first-year undergraduate students < 1252501082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alongside my PhD < 1252501094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether Java or Perl as a first language would be meaner < 1252501098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably Java, tbh < 1252501110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my friends had Perl and Python as her first two languages, and both seemed to go quite well < 1252501121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Java you also can't be blamed when they turn out to be school-shooters, because "everyone else's doing it too". < 1252501156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"school-shooter"? < 1252501171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A person with a gigantic gun, which shoots schools out of it. < 1252501199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be helpful over here, most of the UK faces massive competition for the good schools < 1252501214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a perpetual row about what the fairest way to allocate schooling to peopel is < 1252501217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*people is < 1252501232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what doesn't help is that the government are trying to get around the problem by attempting to pass laws to make all schools identical < 1252501233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way is to disqualify people who write "peopel". < 1252501241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the shot-out schools are very good, though. < 1252501247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a) impossible, and b) a bad idea even if it were possible < 1252501393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, unless bureaucracy intervenes, my Master's thesis will be accepted/graded next Monday; apparently it will also be the official graduation day, even though there's some formal diploma-distribution event a month later. < 1252501560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, well done < 1252501569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was accepted and graded a few months ago < 1252501572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it about? < 1252501594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Methods for Spectral Envelope Estimation in Noise Robust Speech Recognition" < 1252501619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experience in my department is that such master's projects always go wrong < 1252501623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it worked for you, then well done < 1252501669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did take quite a while longer than it should, the work part was more interesting than the writing-about-work part. < 1252501687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually rather enjoyed the writeup on mine < 1252501705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helped that I didn't leave it until after the project was finished < 1252501803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally I just wrote it in a month or so, because this "Helsinki Graduate School in Computer Science and Engineering" application deadline is next Friday, and they only accept graduated applicants. (The Academy of Finland -funded project my salary's been paid up to now is going to end this year, and the department would prefer it if I got some independent funding, which is what Hecse would provide.) < 1252501842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you almost guaranteed to pass? < 1252501844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with a good grade? < 1252501889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, it was nervewracking wondering whether I would get top marks or fail altogether; a quirk in the marking scheme meant that those were the only two plausible results < 1252501996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the supervisor's and professor's statement about it suggested a 5 (out of 5); the approving Council or Conclave or what-ever probably theoretically speaking can decide anything the like, but I think failing is really ludicrously unlikely. As far as I know they could still downgrade it to 4, though. < 1252502009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the like/they like/ < 1252502054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The results are sent via email the same evening, at least I won't have to wait long. < 1252502116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some sort of quasi-official guideline that they shouldn't be allowed to give the maximum grade without consulting a second professor, but it was a bit unclear whether that's actually observed. < 1252502190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK, the top few grades, the bottom few grades, and all fails, together with a random sample of the others, have to be reviewed by a second University < 1252502208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I hope it doesn't mean they go all "okay, well, we gave it to this another professor and now you'll have to wait a month more before graduating", because in that case I'll have to do some sort of difficult handwaving in this graduate school application.) < 1252502209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they interview the students, too < 1252502260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds very serious. < 1252502275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not always, because the grade has to be fixed before the interview < 1252502291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no way to mess up your grade by screwing up the interview < 1252502311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the interview doesn't match up with what the 'external examiners' think the grade should be, the university who set the exam/coursework gets into trouble < 1252502355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw; I was hoping they'd make the students spin a sort of wheel-of-fortune style pass/fail wheel. < 1252502372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be evil < 1252502386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then they could broadcast it on live national TV. < 1252502426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"graduation" is pretty close (lexically) to "gameshow" anyway. < 1252502468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English or Finnish? < 1252502498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English. Er, okay, so it's just the same initial letter. It's still closer than, say, a whale. < 1252502687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's as close in Finnish; "valmistuminen" versus "visailuohjelma". (I had to peek at the dictionary to see what a game show officially is.) < 1252502712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there unofficial Finnish names for game shows too, then/ < 1252502816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not sure "visailuohjelma" has exactly the same connotations as "game show". I guess it is pretty close. < 1252502830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such concepts normally don't translate too accurately < 1252502856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that's probably a good way to see how repetitively derivative something is < 1252502874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, I suspect "reality TV" translates more or less perfectly into many different languages < 1252502886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it didn't really evolve, it just more or less got copied everywhere < 1252502894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now, thankfully, people are getting bored of it again < 1252502951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is an equivalent Finnish word. < 1252503046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi-Wikipedia says "visailu" was a portmanteau of "visainen kilpailu", literally something like "a difficult contest" except that the word for 'difficult' is a sort of old-fashioned one. (fi:ohjelma is just "program" or "show".) < 1252503071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly very "difficult contest" any more, at least in many cases. < 1252503079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not exactly "reality" TV either < 1252503095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the efforts the producers go to artificially contrive what happens < 1252503169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they've started a new Big Brother round here recently; that's what I most associate with "reality" TV. < 1252503178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've just finished the penultimate round over here < 1252503189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, channel 4 have said one more year, then they give up < 1252503201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite possible that one of the smaller TV networks will buy the rights off them, though < 1252503251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently this is our fifth round. < 1252503292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules seem to be slightly different from place to place < 1252503314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I'm almost 100% convinced Wikipedia has a page somewhere summarising the differences, even though I don't know this from personal experience < 1252503392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They certainly have a lot of material about the show. < 1252503393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(disambiguation) < 1252503407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All kinds of very colorful tables. < 1252503407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, the bottom of that page < 1252503433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :44 entries < 1252503444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including "Big Brother Second Life" < 1252503456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some are redirects, though, and a couple are stubs < 1252503459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also separate page for each of the five seasons for the Finnish version; I assume they extend the same courtesy to all other countries too. < 1252503464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, definitely < 1252503475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_2008_(Finland) is very... tabular. < 1252503559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "Variations in the format" section of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(TV_series) there's something like a summary of differences. < 1252503627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I'm reading that now < 1252503644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, as is my habit, trying to work out if Big Brother is Turing-complete < 1252503644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In Germany a new version of the show started: Big Brother - Das Dorf (Big Brother - The Village). -- This was the first version supposed to run for years (without a predetermined end). It was set in a small artificial village including a church tower, a marketplace, 3 houses, 3 working areas -- The season ended after 363 days in February 2006 because of low ratings." < 1252503645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no < 1252503686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castaway_2000 < 1252503705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which actually predated Big Brother, and for which it's arguable whether it was reality TV or not < 1252503716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, it was actually quite good, which means that it probably wasn't < 1252503861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Wikipedia calls it reality TV; most people at the time called it a documentary, but that's possibly because reality TV hadn't been invented at the time < 1252503932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I was continuously expecting some sort of gruesome massacre when reading that description page, but apparently it never happened. < 1252503936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it's just been hushed. < 1252504218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was no news of that presented to the outside world < 1252504229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, all the information we got is what the contestants themselves broadcast < 1252504236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very different from the way most reality TV works < 1252504440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the seventh UK series, Big Brother became "twisted". Every week, housemates' mental states were put to the test as Big Brother tried to break them. As a result of this, many housemates broke down." That sounds unintentionally hilarious. (Possibly only to me.) < 1252504463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the housemates are some sort of machines, which break down every once in a while and are then "serviced". < 1252505291 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably they were indeed "serviced".. in a mental clinic^W garage. < 1252505491 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252505712 0 :JoelyWoely!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252505769 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252505769 0 :JoelyWoely!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252505886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. "Teen Big Brother -- was originally shot in advance -- to air in 2003 as an educational item, screened as part of Channel 4's 4Learning programming. -- On Day Six/Seven, Jade Dyer and Tommy Wright became the first Big Brother UK contestants to have sex on the show in its history. According to The Independent, this was the first real-life sexual act shown on British television --" < 1252505892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that must've been very educational indeed. < 1252506047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they actually showed it in schools < 1252506056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know because I was in school at the time < 1252506071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they were obviously trying to contrive the situation to increase as much as possible the chance that there would be sex involved < 1252506118 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252507790 0 :MatPVB!n=test@65.82.213.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252507818 0 :MatPVB!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252508956 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-134.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252509177 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252509338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and what doesn't help is that the government are trying to get around the problem by attempting to pass laws to make all schools identical < 1252509345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the norwegian system < 1252509351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it fail just as badly there? < 1252509356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only slightly exaggerated) < 1252509455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the norwegian school system is in constant need of improvement. many people think the main problem is that it has _too_ frequent reforms, so it never gets to settle into something that actually works... < 1252509543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really know how badly it fails, only that everyone complains about it < 1252509600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, private/alternative schools are relatively rare, although that too may start to change either way after the election < 1252509690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left wing seems to want to reduce alternatives but under the pretext of making the state schools better instead, while the right wing wants to allow more private and alternative schools < 1252509750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, the teachers complain about too much bureaucracy ... every reform comes with lots of new forms to fill out :D < 1252509793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it's so bad they barely have time to teach < 1252509888 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like the US. < 1252509952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least we don't have metal detectors ;D < 1252510120 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've consolidated that by moving all the schools into airports. < 1252510142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the scary thing is I don't even know whether you're joking < 1252510167 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252510214 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were a select few particularly troublesome schools that had metal detectors in the US after the Columbine incident, and because news from the US tends to become distorted towards the absurd as it leaves our borders (oh who am I kidding, it's distorted towards the absurd in our borders), oerjan probably believes we all have metal detectors in our schools :P < 1252510249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1252510320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use handheld metal detectors at some schools in the UK, apparently < 1252510325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking for knives rather than guns < 1252510411 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they weren't looking for guns here. < 1252510417 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were looking for golden idols to other gods. < 1252510420 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For our God is a jealous God. < 1252510476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252510513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well the norwegian school system is in constant need of improvement. many people think the main problem is that it has _too_ frequent reforms, so it never gets to settle into something that actually works... <-- sounds like in Sweden < 1252510517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1252510561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is the Swedish government trying to make all schools identical too? < 1252510577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not sure. Yeah it is that bad here... < 1252510578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :induction suggests "sounds like almost everywhere", then < 1252510595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: what about the US? < 1252510616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think different political parties in the current government as well as the opposition all pull in different directions < 1252510633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be different, or might not, depending on how Republican and/or Democratic the school system is < 1252510658 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252510763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the current school system is quite left wing ("social democratic" party was the head of the last government) but the current conservative government (to people from US: This means slightly left of your Democrats ;P) wants to change it iirc < 1252510792 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-159.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252510800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :schooling's one of the most powerful ways to consolidate your power for future generations < 1252510810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the social democratic party wins again I'm sure they will change it again < 1252510812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can educate everyone to vote for you, then you can effectively regain your power several years later < 1252511985 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252512062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hm, it may seem that those who guessed the mythbusters had got to "good haken"'s dimension were right < 1252512300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't usually read the forum < 1252512307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wasn't aware of ths < 1252512309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this* < 1252512334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but do you remember good haken? < 1252512370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes, slightly < 1252512387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vaguely" might be a better word < 1252512420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vaguely" is an excellent word. everyone should use it more often. < 1252512423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1252512498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I typo it or something? < 1252512511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i noted < 1252512566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might vaguely recall someone here who occasionally uses that word, though < 1252512693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ... < 1252517605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1252519239 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252519839 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252520817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252520820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there? < 1252520827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think python just behaved very strange: < 1252520829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> -3 % 60 < 1252520829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57 < 1252520834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that strange? < 1252520840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a plausible way to do modulo < 1252520845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the most consistent one < 1252520850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is quite different from every other language I seen iirc < 1252520872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three ways to do modulo with negative numbers IIRC, and they're relatively equally common < 1252520883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252520897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if I instead wanted the reminder? < 1252520904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the remainder < 1252520918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-3 / 60 = -1, with remainder 37 < 1252520922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh righ hm < 1252520927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*57 < 1252520928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 57 < 1252520931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252520938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what then is it when it returns -3? < 1252520945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is iirc what C99 does < 1252520953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1252520967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's doing the modulo with negative numbers rather than positive < 1252520977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252520981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc that is what C99 does < 1252521043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell ((-3) `mod` 60, (-3) `rem` 60) < 1252521054 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(57,-3) < 1252521082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252521095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that seems exactly opposite of what ais523 said? < 1252521109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that one is printed in reverse order or something < 1252521110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1252521120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rem gave -3 and mod 57? < 1252521129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume rem = reminder? < 1252521131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252521138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that is the remainder < 1252521138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -3 / 60 = -1, with remainder 57 < 1252521140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*remainder < 1252521140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it depends on whether you think 0 or -1 is the correct answer for -3 / 60 < 1252521167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell ((-3) `divMod` 60, (-3) `quotRem` 60) < 1252521169 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((-1,57),(0,-3)) < 1252521197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... what is the usual way of rounding... < 1252521215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "usual" < 1252521224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards even numbers, obviously! < 1252521262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes zero sense here < 1252521304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually integer division for positive integers round towards 0 (or towards -inf if you prefer that), but those work out the same for positive integers < 1252521306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for haskell, div rounds down, quot towards zero iirc < 1252521347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252521357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... no one would round *up* for positive integers < 1252521366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for integer division I mean) < 1252521394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell map (uncurry div) [(-1,-3), (-1,3), (1,-3), (1,3)] < 1252521396 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,-1,-1,0] < 1252521423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell map (uncurry quot) [(-1,-3), (-1,3), (1,-3), (1,3)] < 1252521425 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,0,0,0] < 1252521789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme (R5RS) has "remainder" and "modulo" separately; for arguments (13, 4), (-13, 4), (13, -4) and (-13, -4) modulo returns 1, 3, -3, -1 and remainder returns 1, -1, 1, -1. < 1252521848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made that way so that for any nonzero n1, n2, you have (= n1 (+ (* n2 (quotient n1 n2)) (remainder n1 n2))); quotient rounds towards zero there. < 1252521933 0 :labo!n=labo@rt.2.nat.stcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252523263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question: Silly programming assignment asking about implementing a prime checking function in python, it also specifies that the prime checking function has to make use of the function you wrote just before (which was a function testing if a function is evenly dividable by another)... any idea about a non-naive prime checking function that use it? < 1252523276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I find implementing the naive one so... pointless < 1252523284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dividing a function by a number is rather tricky < 1252523301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... and dividing a function by another is still harder < 1252523317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err < 1252523320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer I meant < 1252523321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not function < 1252523334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for that typo < 1252523365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're polynomials it works nicely < 1252523395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1252523437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one variable, at least. otherwise i think you need to use that gröbner base stuff which i've never really learned < 1252523539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't wikipedia has any sort of "list of algorithms for prime test" < 1252523540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1252523546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at ais523  < 1252523572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the decisions on what are kept and what are deleted went past the sanity threshhold years ago < 1252523595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean there *was* such a list at some point? < 1252523637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly not < 1252523650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the side-effect of deletion discussions being unpredictable is that people don't try to start the article in the first palce < 1252523651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*place < 1252523657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primality_test isn't good enought? < 1252523663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-t < 1252523754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well... any answer to my original question (+plus typo correction) < 1252523799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-+ < 1252523820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1252523833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was irresistible) < 1252523837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1252523890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no < 1252523927 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-84.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252523972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, meh < 1252524064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how large are the numbers you'll be tested with? < 1252524087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my suggestion for a silly algorithm is to test whether n divides into (n-1) factorial < 1252524104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252524106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works, but it's kind of inefficient above single digits < 1252524117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers how that would work < 1252524131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, why does that work? < 1252524137 0 :xfire35!n=xfire35@cpc2-pete3-0-0-cust800.pete.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252524142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also have to check to see if the number's a perfect square < 1252524156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, suppose the number has two different factors both greater than 1 < 1252524160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which all non-square composite numbers do < 1252524166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they'll both be involved in the factorial < 1252524169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the division will work < 1252524171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a prime, it won't < 1252524175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for the square of a prime, it won't < 1252524180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252524197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it should work for a square except maybe 4 i think < 1252524206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have both n and 2n in there < 1252524247 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! I have a question about Turing-complete languages: How do I prove that I have made one? < 1252524248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the example of the function used uses 347 as one example for a prime < 1252524249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sqrt n and 2*sqrt n) < 1252524250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, good point < 1252524255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to think, 4 doesn't divide 6 :-) < 1252524256 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252524260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is for this purpose rather large < 1252524264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: normally by writing a compiler from some simple TC language into yours < 1252524270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an interpreter for a simple TC language in yours < 1252524273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell product [1..346] < 1252524275 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :83786109731741519093102185774271060272617123899294938462545650103958267551816999632384597105781115095746538999305576622259820276406705054815151795675299977497130708316332112015853587961035548260985018324781142346741012571342381443403244375423925845246705116571375322097424190407461087058820073115195230214239315368221366956527807550877343514240476697131078048765701822673835389603217404839039032161799288445236044563772647739851207128764035103255967542618 < 1252524283 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small enough < 1252524283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck's normally used as the comparison language for that purpose < 1252524305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to go naive or more efficient :/ < 1252524307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you write a compiler from brainfuck into your language, then your language is TC < 1252524311 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that prove it is Turing-complete though? < 1252524314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "smart naive" of course < 1252524329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: because brainfuck is tc, and your language can do anything that brainfuck can do (due to the compilation) < 1252524333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, check only numbers up to sqrt(n) and check only odd ones) < 1252524334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must also be at least tc < 1252524342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err typo < 1252524350 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, thanks :) < 1252524358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: turing-complete is defined as being able to compile any turing machine to your language < 1252524360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It proves your language can simulate something with power equivalent to that of a universal Turing machine < 1252524381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although you can do the calculation with an actual turing machine, using another language that's already been proven TC works well < 1252524399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, if you have something else that a turing machine can be compiled into (i.e. something also tc) then you can go via that < 1252524410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck, P'', SK combinatory calculus are all good source languages < 1252524430 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't proving that there is transform algorithm from some language and that if the original halts, the result will too enough? < 1252524435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do C++ if you feel ambitious < 1252524452 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be... interesting < 1252524463 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: Is there description somewhere? < 1252524489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35, what about using BCT? (or has it been mentioned already?) < 1252524492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you have to prove the other way round too, that if the original doesn't halt, the result won't < 1252524502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc BCT seemed popular for proving TCness recently < 1252524508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good point < 1252524529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was wondering why _you_ of everyone skipped BCT in that list < 1252524540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT's good if the language you're trying to prove TC doesn't have much in common with other langs < 1252524562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if it doesn't have any sense of numbers, or data and code have a distance restriction between them < 1252524566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how was BCT proven TC btw? < 1252524574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proof must have been.... interesting < 1252524576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: via tag systems < 1252524578 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there another way to prove TC, I have already nearly written one interpreter < 1252524583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proving BCT simulates a tag system is pretty simple < 1252524583 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252524585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how was tag systems proven TC? < 1252524602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: interpreter for what? < 1252524615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: all TCness proofs can be expressed in terms of being an interpreter for something < 1252524616 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language I am writing. I also did another one a while back < 1252524637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just writing an interp for your language isn't enough to prove anything but an upper bound for its class, and you're looking for a lower bound < 1252524664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35, oh we didn't mean that, of course such an interpreter is very useful too. We meant writing an interpreter _in_ your language, _for_ a known TC language < 1252524669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a program in your language, or a compiler to your language, are the only ways to prove TCness < 1252524682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually, writing an interpreter is enough to prove it "TC or less" < 1252524683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1252524687 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I gathered that. It would just be annoying to do so. < 1252524690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nah < 1252524695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1252524701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it to put an upper bound on its class < 1252524702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unless you write it in a super-TC languag < 1252524704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language* < 1252524707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah exactly < 1252524720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfire35: BCT is super simple though < 1252524724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, if you write an interp for something in BackFlip, for instance, you know it's termination-testable < 1252524737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep < 1252524760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how was backflip proven termination-testable? < 1252524771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by proving it always terminates < 1252524797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also writing a bf interpreter in a language isn't enough to prove said language _exactly_ TC. It would be "TC or more" < 1252524812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write a bf interpreter in banana scheme easily enough < 1252524813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what "proving something TC" means to me < 1252524821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TC or more" and "TC" are the same thing < 1252524826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, banana scheme /is/ TC; it can just do more as well < 1252524830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm ok < 1252524846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would probably be turing-_hard_, by analogy with NP < 1252524863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252524866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well... what would you call proving "no less, and no more than TC" < 1252524882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np hard means that if it's P, then so are all NP-complete problems, but not vice versa? < 1252524903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TC == can compute every Turing-computable function < 1252524916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np hard means anything in np can be reduced to it, but it's not necessarily in np < 1252524923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "TC and computable" < 1252524925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np-complete means it is also in np < 1252524939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait... NP-complete being a subset of P? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense < 1252524962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if P=NP, then NP-complete is a subset of P < 1252524973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if P != NP, then they're disjoint < 1252524978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523 is confusing the definition of np-hard/complete with the p vs. np question itself < 1252524985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort-of the essence of np-completeness < 1252524989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wouldn't that mean that basically every crypto except OTP would be seriously fucked? < 1252524996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, yes; although, I think my statements are probably true anyway < 1252525009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well possibly quantum cryptos too, but don't know enough about them to be sure < 1252525016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true but imprecise < 1252525030 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't confuse symmetric and asymmetric crypto. < 1252525047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if P != NP, there are things strictly between P and NP-complete < 1252525049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm, only asymmetric ones would be fucked? < 1252525054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that would be bad enough though < 1252525085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what would that class be? < 1252525109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum cryptography doesn't care about P=NP; it's based on physical principles, not mathematical ones < 1252525132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a few asymmetric cryptosystems not based on the factorization problem; none of them very widespread or (maybe) quite as well-analyzed as you might want. < 1252525135 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least if quantum computers with large bitness became practical, they would totally fuck most asymmetric algorithms. But would be probably quite hopeless against symmetric stuff like AES-256... < 1252525166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: QBP is probably going to end up between P and NP, isn't it? < 1252525168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the discussion had went away from the factorization already. Heh. You are so fast. < 1252525174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, ofc, P = NP, but that seems rather unlikely < 1252525200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well, grover's algorithm gives you an O(n^2) improvement for any algorithm at all < 1252525204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably, but it's not proved even assuming P != NP afaik < 1252525213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's suspected that for general algorithms, you don't get an improvement better than that < 1252525223 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah. AES-256 is still 2^128 work even with it. < 1252525237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep, neither P != QBP nor QBP != NP is known < 1252525257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there is a proof that if P != NP then you can construct something in an intermediate class. iirc it uses something diagonalization-like < 1252525325 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there may be some weakness in AES that can't be exploited with classical computer but could with quantum computer. But one can say that generic attacks won't cut it. < 1252525377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i don't recall we actually went by factorization at all this time ;) < 1252525386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yay my encrypted partition is safe! < 1252525395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(against quantum computers) < 1252525404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't that what AnMaster's programming assignment all the way up there was about? < 1252525407 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also heard about some groups which have DDH probably outside BQP (but of course still in NP). < 1252525408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least it seems so) < 1252525415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Primality testing, factorization; pretty close. < 1252525427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, just prime testing, also it was an unrelated conversation really < 1252525438 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252525455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ehird is here, everyone keep silent < 1252525465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a for loop in python always "for i in "? Or is there "C-style" for loop too? < 1252525471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: former < 1252525476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i in xrange(1,10) < 1252525477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so while loop it is then < 1252525485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what are you trying to do? < 1252525485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I would run out of memory quickly < 1252525491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1252525493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xrange is a generator < 1252525494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no memory used < 1252525499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why you use xrange instead of range < 1252525504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, prime test < 1252525510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xrange is a generator < 1252525512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no memory used < 1252525514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1252525519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, while "range" isn't? < 1252525523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252525528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in python 3, range = xrange < 1252525531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no xrange < 1252525533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :range itself is a cruft < 1252525538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*relic, not cruft < 1252525543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how do you get a range? < 1252525548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xrange < 1252525549 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you are using that (p - 1)! == -1 (mod p), use modular multiplication... Keeps numbers down. < 1252525555 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You know what I meant. < 1252525562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you can do sequence operations on it < 1252525570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really need a list, list(xrange(...)) < 1252525636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well I wasn't going for that one, I don't want bad marks (nor do I want to be held responsible for the teacher getting a heart attack!) < 1252525656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252525669 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252525693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows sure is vaguely annoying when it breaks < 1252525698 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 6th-degree version of AKS? :-> < 1252525728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram got six degrees just for writing that awful book and released a special edition for it? < 1252525730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deary me! < 1252525745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, did you see that bit about the assignment specifying that you had to make use of a function that is: f(a,b): return A % B == 0 < 1252525761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(newlines + indention omitted for brevity) < 1252525763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your uni sucks btw < 1252525771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. < 1252525773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "def" omitted too < 1252525777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's indentation < 1252525779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was a typo < 1252525783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the problem is to write a Python program that tests a number for primality, using an "is-divisible-by" operation < 1252525786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(def I mean) < 1252525793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I actually looked it up and indention is also correct < 1252525797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AnMaster's looking for a non-obvious solution < 1252525804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Contrary to popular belief I'm not retarded < 1252525805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1252525817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, selection broke < 1252525819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1252525819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it just happens to mean something else < 1252525820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252525832 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, they mean the same thing. < 1252525833 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252525839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? Interesting < 1252525848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1252525857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indention is typographical < 1252525859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indentation is code < 1252525863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indention is never used anyway < 1252525878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure is, an indentation in a wall? < 1252525880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err.. < 1252525887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only ever seen indention in that context :P < 1252525896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hur hur. < 1252525919 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that context, "indention" is evidently archaic < 1252525931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And "indentation" isn't) < 1252525932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the wall context? < 1252525945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252525948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1252525959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe I only read archaic books then < 1252526013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:48:18 AnMaster: 6th-degree version of AKS? :-> < 1252526015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:48:48 Wolfram got six degrees just for writing that awful book and released a special edition for it? < 1252526016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a joke, btw. < 1252526056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wasn't responding to that line as far as I know? < 1252526112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also what has wolfram got to do with AKS? < 1252526305 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252526323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was replying to ais523 in the past. < 1252526340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, whoosh. < 1252526361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFS < 1252526437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iirc that is Andrew File System in the linux kernel < 1252526445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea who Andrew was < 1252526464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is Acronym Failure Syndrome < 1252526501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009073109]" < 1252526508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Andrew < 1252526545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a highly revolutionary file system < 1252526749 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.243.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252528012 0 :labo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252529684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1252531060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, apparently John Resig (of jQuery fame) founded #haskell. < 1252531686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was there ever a CRT laptop, I wonder? < 1252531780 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1252531795 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1252532008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Was there ever a CRT laptop, I wonder? <-- yes I think so. At least it sounds familiar < 1252532040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean like a single-line text display. < 1252532072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean more like 5nnx3nnn or so < 1252532078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252532079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3nn < 1252532083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviousl y < 1252532091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously* < 1252532100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 nanometers < 1252532136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would be "nm" not "nnn" < 1252532146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't even look similar < 1252532157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on font < 1252532169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, assuming a decent font of course < 1252532172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is nnn? < 1252532176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even nn. < 1252532184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any two numbers < 1252532188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1252532193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1252532194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any two one digit positive integers < 1252532197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact < 1252532211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5xx x 3xx would have got that intent across. < 1252532221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the x there in the middle confused things < 1252532225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1252532236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm tragically using Arial due to being too lazy to find a properly hinted Windows Helvetica. < 1252532257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tragic indeed < 1252532263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252532692 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252533208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://core.trac.wordpress.org/changeset/11762 < 1252533228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WordPress remote vulnerability bug? Simply omitting the permissions check on all the option pages in the administration interface. < 1252533236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keys are, like, right next to each other. < 1252533271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So uh, anyone still using WordPress on a remote server? Relatedly, anyone currently on crack? < 1252533433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I frigging hate Nokia. Given how much in love they are with Symbian I was pretty sure I could just disqualify all their phones; and then they go and do that N900 thing. < 1252533459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Touchscreen keyboard, man. < 1252533468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1252533476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh. < 1252533481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Really really tiny keyboard, man? < 1252533497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also do all Finns have a weird thing for phones? < 1252533501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's not a really tiny *touchscreen* keyboard. < 1252533517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's pretty close to a cross of their "internet tablet" things and a phone. < 1252533541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that mooz said it's good; how can I really disagree? (He's been playing with a prototype at his mobile-development job.) < 1252533547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's not a really tiny touchscreen keyboard that lets you touch pixels by saying the x and then y position into a low-quality bluetooth headset which then compresses it with low-quality windows media audio and runs Vista's speech recognition algorithm on it after adding white noise to the background. < 1252533602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also it looks thick. < 1252533639 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252533643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Anyway, there aren't many apps for maemo atm are there? < 1252533646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Maemo < 1252533665 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, it's probably cheesy, but here's my latest Befunge abomination / creation: http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?p=101447#101447 < 1252533682 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not very impressive, I admit, but it took a while, so meh) < 1252533686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure; it's just that it feels far more open-wide than, say, Android. < 1252533689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC client broke that link at "flatass". < 1252533699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I was trying to figure out what a Flat Ass Embler was for a second. < 1252533715 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FASM, basically a competitor to NASM < 1252533723 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although written in itself instead of C < 1252533724 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1252533747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I hear the Pre's implementation of multitasking is quite good, at least. I dunno, the N900 just doesn't feel very interesting to me. < 1252533751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I know what FASM is. < 1252533756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real men use yasm! < 1252533764 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YASM is nice too < 1252533765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is pretty thick and otherwise big too, yes; 111 x 60 x 18 mm. On the other hand, I've been carrying the 130 x 70 x 20 mm N-gage around for years now, and it doesn't feel that big any more. < 1252533784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though really real men use an assembler written in Scheme. < 1252533792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Isn't the N-Gage super-heavy? < 1252533793 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Bash ;-) < 1252533795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, crap? :P < 1252533798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: No. < 1252533803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bash does not have awesome macros. :| < 1252533820 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant omimplay / shasm is an assembler written in Bash ;-) < 1252533834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, it's completely horrible. Especially since there's a whole heap of "whoops, we made your phone reboot" bugs in the firmware, which they never bothered to fix. < 1252533838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but a Scheme assembler would expose the operations as Scheme macros. < 1252533842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Anyway, it came with a toy helicopter. < 1252533844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus allowing Fun Fun Magic Trickery. < 1252533850 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully your N-Gage is one of the later models without the battery replacement annoyance and sidetalking < 1252533854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh. That's all right, then. < 1252533860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alright, maybe. < 1252533869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I would have said "N-Gage QD" if it were. No, it is not. < 1252533899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you want something FREE AS IN RICHARD STALLMAN, try an OpenMoko phone! You can even run Android on them. Downside: they suck. Also no 3G. I don't think they have EDGE either. < 1252533899 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION couldn't remember the QD part, was thinking SD or something ... < 1252533926 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sings "Jive Talkin'" with "Side" replacing the "Jive" ;-) < 1252533946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's a bit too open. I'm just having trouble resisting a phone that's basically running Debian. < 1252533957 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the N-Gage had some good games, right?? < 1252533957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OpenMoko is basically Debian, too :P < 1252533963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Not really, no :P < 1252533967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but there's the hardware problem. < 1252533980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I wouldn't know, it came with a "Tony Hawk's" skater game, which I sold. < 1252533996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tony Hawk skateboarding games are uncannily addictive. < 1252534018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt the N-gage version would've been very good. < 1252534032 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it was okay < 1252534042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, my iBook also came with a Tony Hawk game, which didn't work. < 1252534046 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N-Gage wasn't quite that bad, albeit imperfect, from what I read < 1252534048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was pretty strange. < 1252534049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, forget the N900 < 1252534053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It uses a resistive touchscreen < 1252534090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either you really *really* love styluses, really *really* love having your touches dropped, or don't want a resistive touchscreen. < 1252534137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not sure I'm so touchy-feely person, and in fact I do have a strange fascination for styluses (styli?). Still, it's a bit of a shame; they did put a capacitive screen into that N97 Symbian phone, I think. < 1252534163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after using an iphone i could never use a resistive touchscreen < 1252534176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: btw, I'm pretty sure Maemo is designed for touchiness < 1252534236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm still going to have to find one to improperly touch all around, to see what it's like. < 1252534243 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get the huge appeal of touch screens, I mean, it's nice but not that crucial, seems more gimmicky than anything < 1252534270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1252534287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch screens are good for some things, bad for others < 1252534288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UI experience, so to speak, is way different with a touchscreen < 1252534300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't want to program for a long length of time on one < 1252534306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use a phone that doesn't have a touchscreen < 1252534309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :web browsing, OTOH, might work quite well < 1252534310 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252534318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hello 2006 < 1252534325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 99% of the phones in the universe never had touch screen capability < 1252534328 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did see someone today doing the iPhone multi-touch map zoom thing, which has always made me smile. < 1252534331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't have a phone at all < 1252534340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you delight in pointing out all the time. < 1252534354 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello 2006? heh < 1252534362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different people here live in different years < 1252534366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iphone came out in 2007 w/ touchscreen web browsing < 1252534367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird lives about 10 years ahead of everyone else < 1252534367 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, itz from teh 2006 !#! < 1252534370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, hello 2006 < 1252534380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, i live in 2009 < 1252534393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the perspective of someone who lives in <<2009, that's probably true < 1252534401 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be obsolete in four months :-> < 1252534423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comment was excitingly context free. < 1252534429 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009 < 1252534568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assume you only use Befunge109 then? :-P < 1252534576 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes good ol' classic 93 < 1252534580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge109 isn't really finished yet < 1252534586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you'd better get a move on, before it becomes Befunge110 < 1252534613 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then someone may misinterpret it as binary < 1252534629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had a big red button that I could press to make the air simultaneously slap every single person currently using a strawman argument in the face < 1252534636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would put a heavy book on top of it. < 1252534651 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :books? how 1890s :-P < 1252534665 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just place your computer on it and be happy < 1252534667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: are you feeling pain? 'cuz I'm pressing it < 1252534669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a Kindle 2, omg, plz, kthxbai < 1252534671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you can't weight things down with computer programs < 1252534677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Press, press, press. < 1252534685 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can ... Fortran punch cards :-) < 1252534689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and aren't Kindles capable of deleting the stuff you're reading remotely/ < 1252534694 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252534695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one fucking heavy punch card. < 1252534696 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was joking < 1252534702 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plural < 1252534702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, the Kindle is ridiculously DRMed < 1252534704 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cards" < 1252534706 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they did delete (and refund) over 1984, heh < 1252534712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is great, however < 1252534715 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_1984_, of all books ... < 1252534737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I tend to avoid hardware if the software in it can't easily be replaced and isn't near-perfect < 1252534758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure you can reflash the Kindle. < 1252534759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the risk of being obsoleted pretty quckly < 1252534765 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :near-perfect? uh, nothing is perfect (Win7 has SMB 2.0 flaw, BSOD lives!!) < 1252534771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, it gets software updates. < 1252534781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I'd have been pretty surprised if Win7 had been perfect < 1252534792 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think somebody got a minimal Ubuntu to run on the Kindle < 1252534794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hmm... is it hardware-locked to only allow signed updates? < 1252534795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except anyone can crash a win 7 machine with an open port < 1252534801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to a bug in the TCP/IP stack < 1252534805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no idea. < 1252534806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok, now that's impressive < 1252534809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any open port? < 1252534812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy a Sony ebook reader or something, they can't do that shit < 1252534813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not sure < 1252534817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does that apply to the server version too? < 1252534822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. < 1252534833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it works on port 80, then Microsoft will be in a load of trouble < 1252534842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I Read It On The Internet, So It Must Be True < 1252534846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRIOTISIMBT. < 1252534852 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too busy "training" Best Buy employees :-) < 1252534855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I riot sim BT. < 1252534865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such fun raiding the British Telecom offices in virtual reality? < 1252534872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did you see that Reddit story about Apple pulling a C64 emulator app because you could write BASIC programs into it? < 1252534879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... *iSim < 1252534880 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saw it < 1252534888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. < 1252534890 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iRiot, iSim, BT < 1252534894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shit policy, the app store is managed shit < 1252534898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: however < 1252534900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in the ToS < 1252534904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the devs were rejected for it before < 1252534907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just "hid" it very faintly < 1252534907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252534913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they shouldn't be surprised < 1252534919 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still lame, though < 1252534969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the policy is lame, removing it for violating the policy isn't < 1252534979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my point of view, a device that deliberately tries not to be TC (from a user-input point of view) is rather limited < 1252534993 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC? < 1252534996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing complete < 1252534997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing-complete < 1252535000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're on crack. < 1252535007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you not use ATMs? < 1252535008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, what's to stop people just writing long javascript: URLs into Safari < 1252535010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252535014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1252535015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I do, but I consider them rather limited < 1252535019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather limited != unusable < 1252535028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it reduces the amount of money I'm willing to spend on something < 1252535028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet other apps which offer unrestricted net access, < 1252535035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are rated 17 < 1252535039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bullshit < 1252535039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17? < 1252535066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :age limit, rating thing < 1252535096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the Kindle is incidentally TC < 1252535100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone asked the Enigma devs if they were planning to put it on the iPhone < 1252535102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it has a web browser which does javascript < 1252535107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it as an ssh client, for instance < 1252535114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they launched into a rant against Apple and the app store policies < 1252535124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how they thought it was illegal to put anything open-source in the app store < 1252535130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very debatable. < 1252535135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, under a GPL-style copyleft < 1252535135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the FSF think so, but it's probably not. < 1252535138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not BSD stuff < 1252535149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, with an uber-strict literal reading, yes, it's illegal < 1252535153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument is, that you can't license apple to make binary copies that don't also send source < 1252535166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you can embed the source code inside the app :) < 1252535171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually, no < 1252535174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple's terms ban that < 1252535177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1252535181 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would Apple ban a Befunge interpreter? < 1252535183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes < 1252535186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: probably. < 1252535189 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you aren't allowed to upload anything which could be used in a TC way to the App store? < 1252535194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: well, no < 1252535199 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know that < 1252535201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? hard to imagine Befunge (-93, at least) of causing any problems < 1252535210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but programming, yes < 1252535215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: nor C64 BASIC < 1252535220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone on reddit claimed that their lambda-calculus-based game was banned, although I'm not sure whether to believe them < 1252535235 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why the heck is Apple so popular then? < 1252535242 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't this come back to bite them eventually? < 1252535247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes, it will < 1252535247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: well, you'd think so < 1252535249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1252535252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iPhone's UI is really, really great < 1252535260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simply the smoothest phone for doing shit with < 1252535269 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except TC shit ;-) < 1252535277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... most people value that above being able to type BASIC programs on a touchscreen keyboard. < 1252535279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I agree, the UI is relatively impressive < 1252535304 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call 911, we need iBefunge, stat! ;-) < 1252535305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to find myself getting bored of UIs after a few minutes, though < 1252535307 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it there's no way to install a program locally < 1252535313 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, you have to go via App store? < 1252535322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do it if you have a developer SDK thingy. < 1252535329 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which costs tonnes? < 1252535329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that costs $$$. < 1252535332 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :._. < 1252535333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the SDK is free < 1252535336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Putting it on your phone isn't < 1252535340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something like... < 1252535341 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about jailbreaking it? < 1252535343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the figure. < 1252535345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double-digit bucks < 1252535349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: technically illegal. < 1252535354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bored, maybe < 1252535360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough, a UI is meant to be functional, not exciting < 1252535366 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alrighty < 1252535368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you notice it, it's bad < 1252535372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: agreed < 1252535379 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick to my current phone anyway.. I can call with it, so I'm happy < 1252535388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phone is a misnomer < 1252535400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual telephone-mast calling is basically irrelevant nowadays < 1252535405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, though, what would I do with an iPhone-like device? < 1252535407 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite true < 1252535411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "mobile thingy device" isn't a very good term < 1252535417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm one of those crazy people who bought a first-generation iPhone back in 2007 when they cost £72,564 and 81p. Back then they didn't even have apps, you were just meant to use web apps in Safari. < 1252535424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I jailbreaked it. < 1252535429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back then you could jailbreak it just by opening a web page in Safari. < 1252535445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did you leave it jailbroken through upgrades/ < 1252535447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd hang there for about 15 seconds, show a blue progress bar, reboot and bam! You're jailbroken and have an app installer. < 1252535450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't < 1252535454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1252535459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did you upgrade and rebreak it? < 1252535463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the App Store came out I didn't bother to rebreak it < 1252535464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just leave it as-is? < 1252535468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of laziness < 1252535482 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, laziness ... the bane of progress < 1252535494 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really start programming for the DS some day < 1252535496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jailbreaking my mobile doesn't really advance the world. < 1252535522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's a very good alarm clock and portable web browser. Not so much an IRC/IM client, but I haven't really practiced with that touchscreen keyboard much. < 1252535556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't buy it today, but only because of the app store hoohah. < 1252535590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alarm clocks can be obtained more cheaply < 1252535596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm horrified at the thought of portable web browsing < 1252535596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit. < 1252535604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might just be a luddite. < 1252535609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being on call constantly is bad enough < 1252535613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but being online constantly? < 1252535619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, web browsing is self-initiated. < 1252535622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have an internet connection at my own home < 1252535637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're probably a luddite. < 1252535645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can just imagine a future where employers insit that everyone has an iphone set to IRC at all the time, or something like that < 1252535645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the internet is an extension of my mind. < 1252535650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to call up Wikipedia at any time is invaluable. < 1252535663 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can see that < 1252535667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you also oppose strong AI? < 1252535680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, Terminator could come true and we'd be plunged into a horrible war with the machines, am I right? < 1252535688 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia is great ... esp. for John Siegenthaler :-)) < 1252535718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think strong AI is unlikely within my lifetime < 1252535723 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch < 1252535732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I've seen of humankind, it's too fundamentally incompetent to want to develop anything like that < 1252535733 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting 08:10 tomorrow < 1252535745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is not an answer to my question. < 1252535750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm sorry, Dave, but I can't let you do that." < 1252535765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I tend not to think too much about things of low probability < 1252535774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice. I asked a question of you. < 1252535778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I rarely have opinions at all unless I actually think about a topic deeply < 1252535790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so my answer is, atm I have no opinion, and I don't really want to spend time formulating one < 1252535854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a use-case I mentioned, looking up information as an extension of my own memory? I suppose that's bad because I'll become stupid and drooling and have to look up every word on Wikipedia to find out what it means, hurr. < 1252535862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re: opposing portable internet) < 1252535942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, not really < 1252535954 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252535966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I find I can hardly think when onlilne < 1252535968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*online < 1252535974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can scheme with people when online, e.g. for mafia or nomic < 1252535983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hardly ever do productive work when I have an internet connection < 1252536011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have a self-control problem < 1252536024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You may be a bear. You may have wings. There are *so* *many* things you may.) < 1252536029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when I'm connected to the internet, it's for the purpose of using it < 1252536107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm likely the only person here young enough to have "grown up" with the internet. < 1252536117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1252536121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even articulate what "using" the internet is. It's not a directed action I make. < 1252536139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if you use the Internet as an extention of your own memory, then by analogy, I can remotely control your mind < 1252536151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if someone reverts you. < 1252536161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on my timing < 1252536186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your memory doesn't correlate with other ones I'm unlikely to believe it. < 1252536197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that's the same ol' "lol but anyone can put 'ur a fag' on wikipedia" argument. < 1252536223 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they often do < 1252536234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I wasn't assuming you'd only be trusting Wikipedia < 1252536248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. My list of people who are fags is at least 11.47% longer than the average person's. < 1252536268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, you're saying that you're going to get every site on the internet about a given topic to add your lie into them < 1252536279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have this lie correlate with everything else I know < 1252536285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do that, I commend your initiative < 1252536285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: depends on how rare the topic is < 1252536295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I'm thinking about the situation where mine's the only site with some datum you might want to know < 1252536324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might flunk a job interview because I got the wrong C-INTERCAL version number. Oh, the embarrassment. < 1252536344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you're the only person who knows you could just lie to me IRL too. < 1252536352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internet doesn't really change that dynamic at all. < 1252536364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except I'm less likely to trust people on the internet at face value.) < 1252536456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about when the Internet crashes? < 1252536470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm worried that it'll cause the end of civilisation, nowadays, we're just too dependent on it < 1252536471 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, befunge-mode.el is very slow (probably due to cursor movement over current instruction being executed) < 1252536479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not convinced it's entirely impossible < 1252536490 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to what? dependence on oil? that didn't kill us (yet) < 1252536495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: electricity is evil < 1252536500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever been in a power cut? < 1252536507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must immediately stop using electricity, lest it ever go out < 1252536509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1252536515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you agree? < 1252536528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :candles ftw! ;-) < 1252536542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's normally easier to restore, taking out the entire electricity network all over the world would be rather difficult < 1252536559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with the internet; it could be better, sure, and so we can make it better. < 1252536567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, sure, I fully expect that an internet coverage outage will be as severe as an electricity outage in the future. < 1252536603 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if this "cloud" crap takes off < 1252536647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252536657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloud coverage seems like a bad idea < 1252536686 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, dunno how old you are (I forget, but I know everyone here is youngish), but the Internet predates us all ... DARPA/ARPANET, 1974 or such ... < 1252536689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while it's a loathsome buzzword, I don't see any problem in storing *some things* on third-party servers, hopefully encrypted and with backups, to access them anywhere < 1252536701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I know that. (I'm 14.) < 1252536710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we already do some (webmail, pics) < 1252536712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it only really took off in the mid 90s. < 1252536714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And exactly. < 1252536725 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oy, 14 is a bit young < 1252536738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I could have my mind corrupted by the negative influences of this channel. < 1252536752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third-party servers is fine < 1252536761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's storing data everywhere that's the problem < 1252536765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how I think the cloud worked < 1252536774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no < 1252536777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was enjoying his 486 Sx/25 w/ 4 MB of RAM and 170 MB HD running MS-DOS 6.00 and Win 3.1 and King's Quest 6 when he was 14 < 1252536780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cloud is just a buzzword for things like gmail, google docs, ... < 1252536790 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and 2400 bps for BBSes (soon upgraded, heh) < 1252536794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a healthy tip to remember is that buzzwords never mean anything new < 1252536805 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to imagine 2400bps was ever acceptable for anything < 1252536811 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although same for 486s :-P < 1252536824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I started on Windows 3.1 when I was 3, despite 95 coming out when I was born. < 1252536841 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now *that* probably corrupted (or scarred) you ;-) < 1252536857 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mommy, why is Bill Gates such a horrible programmer?" < 1252536879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Oh, I already knew that, because I have a distinct memory of removing everything in C:\WINDOWS. < 1252536889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need this crap on my system! Oh, look, it crashed again. < 1252536921 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear, it must've been low memory, if we'd had more RAM, we never would've accepted Win 3.x for anything, ever < 1252536946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Windows 3.x isn't old! Stupid people dropping compatibOHWAIT:P < 1252536967 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say compatibility should be killed, but Win 3.x was definitely weak < 1252537012 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is more popular (esp. since Win3x used undocumented tricks, still doesn't really run on FreeDOS although not enough developers miss it, I guess) < 1252537031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS was pretty bad < 1252537038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :architecturally < 1252537046 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1252537052 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could've been better, could've been worse < 1252537058 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was very lean and mean < 1252537060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs could shit on each other and it had no proper multitasking < 1252537063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna go with "bad architecture" < 1252537073 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shit on each other" only applies to real mode < 1252537082 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DR-DOS had multitasking, Desqview also existed, etc. etc. < 1252537084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm pretty sure 386BSD and the like could run on the things DOS could < 1252537094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not like a better architecture was impossible due to hardware constraints < 1252537095 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one advantage of Win 3.0: multitasking DOS) < 1252537099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 3.0 went completely broken when I DBLSPACE'd my system disk. < 1252537108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.0? Windows 386 could do that! < 1252537121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does that... double space text? < 1252537125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly there was a warning about it somewhere, I just had missed it. < 1252537125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 386 was a win 3.1 feature < 1252537133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a on-the-fly disk compression thing. < 1252537135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: naw < 1252537135 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, DOS originally ran on an 8088, 386BSD didn't exist (and needed 386+, duh) < 1252537141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer in the video is clearly running windows 2 < 1252537141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoubleSpace/DriveSpace. < 1252537148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had overlapping windows, but the old look < 1252537153 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win 2.1/386 existed (supposedly, never tried it) < 1252537174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Windows 3.0 at least does have a "386 Enhanced" mode. < 1252537185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: still, you could clearly fit a unix-alike on there < 1252537199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD isn't exactly the leanest unix imaginable, and the 386 wasn't like five billion times more powerful < 1252537221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably couldn't do everything the demoscene did with one, though < 1252537228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the overhead and protection < 1252537291 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run ELKS on a 8088. < 1252537370 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely < 1252537379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amusing how the latest top of the line x86 supercomputing system of today still, when you turn it on, tells the keyboard to free up its port < 1252537383 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, Linux originally ran on a 386 w/ 2 MB < 1252537388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over PS/2 < 1252537389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The main problem with DOS is that it made no sense on a machine more powerful than, say, an 8080. < 1252537395 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays you'd be lucky to run one with 32 MB < 1252537414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read the linux 0.1 source? < 1252537415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ... Fail. < 1252537416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it barely does anything < 1252537427 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it made plenty sense, but Intel chips (286 pmode anyone?) weren't exactly DOS friendly < 1252537428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're full of shit, Rugxulo :P < 1252537431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox < 1252537436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is more a hardware-communications library than an OS < 1252537436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox systems run in kilobytes of ram < 1252537439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single-digit < 1252537439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can rather easily get you Linux on a 386 w/ 2MB. < 1252537443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux < 1252537447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox and Linux, and voila. < 1252537450 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux 2.6? no way < 1252537453 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux 2.4? doubt it < 1252537456 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.2? maybe < 1252537461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may well include the RAMdisk. < 1252537462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you can strip down the kernel < 1252537465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during compile < 1252537479 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a lot of minimal Linuxes, and none are as minimal as DOS < 1252537505 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, just for completeness, somebody did fix up Linux 0.1 to work with modern GCC, and he backported Bash 3.2, VIM 7, I think :-) < 1252537521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. DOS is not even an OS, it's a couple of additional interrupt handlers and a bootloader that can be returned to. < 1252537526 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you even DO with only 2 MB of RAM with Linux?? < 1252537534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: run binaries < 1252537534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nethack? < 1252537536 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with lots of (slow) swap space < 1252537548 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nethack, maybe, not sure how much RAM it needs though < 1252537554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much. < 1252537554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no < 1252537558 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(won't easily fit on a floppy, I think) < 1252537570 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1252537573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can run a linux 2.6 + busybox system with 1KB BTW, Ben Olmstead shown his face recently? < 1252541936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:40:57 (guess not) < 1252541937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last seen early 2009, commenting on the 99 bottles of beer site on a malbolge submission < 1252541945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:53:43 what's the diff between Befunge97 and 98? < 1252541951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge97 was weirder, iirc < 1252541953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as that 96? < 1252541956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're both lost. < 1252541961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster found some dox on them < 1252541970 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1252541984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha chatzilla prefixes things with "=-=" < 1252541991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the - is below the = slightly < 1252541999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's peeved that you changed your name, ais523 < 1252542013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're using chatzilla? < 1252542020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as the sort of program you'd avoid using for UI reasons < 1252542031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's pretty good on windows, actually < 1252542036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the configuration UI is rather bad < 1252542044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't use it connected to a browser, obviously; that's just stupid < 1252542046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I only used it on SunOS < 1252542061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never try and use it on OS X after using OS X for any length of time < 1252542074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guess what would happen < 1252542075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very upsetting < 1252542096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, what do OSX users do when a typical Windows or Linux user would do pgup, pgdown, home, or end/ < 1252542108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chord for them on OSX is basically impossible to reach, worse than just using the mouse < 1252542126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page up, page down, command-left or ctrl-A, command-right or ctrl-E. < 1252542139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, emacs bindings for home and end, that makes sense < 1252542146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Mac I was using didn't have page up or page down keys < 1252542147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-A for the start of the physical line, command-left for visual line (i.e., line wrapping) < 1252542153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what was it? < 1252542154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command-left is just impossible for me to press < 1252542162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not sure, I'm not a master of Mac knowledge < 1252542163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the left command key < 1252542167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and press left with your right hand < 1252542170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a borrowed one from someone else's < 1252542173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was it a notebook or a desktop? < 1252542177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notebook < 1252542183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm unused to using two hands to chord < 1252542195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was it white, silver or silver and black? < 1252542198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chord with one where possible, so as to move the other hand in place for the next key < 1252542200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it was white < 1252542214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either a non-first-generation iBook or a MacBook, then < 1252542222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, page up is Fn-up I think < 1252542224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and page down fn-down < 1252542227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the problem is, I had to look at the keyboard to do left command + arrow key < 1252542229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, chording with one hand is unergonomic < 1252542231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so you know < 1252542235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: faster, though < 1252542241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1252542244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the way I learnt to type < 1252542250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvorak is optimized to only hit one key with one hand at a time < 1252542253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say I want to press control-P < 1252542266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then neither of my hands can reach, say, y or u without moving, if I use both hands for it < 1252542284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: comedy option: they use their trackpad's scrolling ability < 1252542295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's possibly not a bad idea < 1252542313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has a nonfunctioning trackpad, with the result that I can't use anyone else's without moving the mouse all over the place by mistake < 1252542318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm used to resting my hands on it < 1252542322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's a common problem < 1252542329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why the nipple mouse is generally superior < 1252542338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but even worse for me because I have little motivation to fix it < 1252542339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, er < 1252542342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the trackpad in the middle or to the left? < 1252542346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle < 1252542349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, almost < 1252542356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, you have really bad typing posture < 1252542357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slightly left-of-centre, but only by a centimetre or so < 1252542370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my hands don't stay constant as I type < 1252542374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor mine < 1252542380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, they never curve into the middle < 1252542380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they move into position for the next few letters < 1252542400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if I rest my left hand on home row, the base of my left thumb is on the middle of the trackpad < 1252542405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't curving into the middle at all < 1252542409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay < 1252542415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must have very small hands < 1252542432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just an awkwardly-placed trackpad, I think < 1252542442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you expect my hands to end up? < 1252542447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, < 1252542449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they seek so far < 1252542459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine do the same thing and yet my arms barely move < 1252542464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is on a full-sized desktop keyboard < 1252542469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't seek far; my arms don't move, my wrists hardly do < 1252542471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, ignoring the non-main blocks of keys) < 1252542475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly the palm of the hand that moves < 1252542488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's enough to knock the touchpad, which my thumb is leaning on at the time < 1252542490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... moving that without your wrist sounds like you're begging for problems < 1252542497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, your thumb < 1252542501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252542504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this mental picture keeps getting more and more awkward < 1252542524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to press the spacebar anywhere sane, the base of the thumb basically has to be on the touchpad < 1252542529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the left hand, at least < 1252542547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of keyboards, I learned that I can type QWERTY in my head, but cannot recall the QWERTY layout. < 1252542568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I could do this by typing e.g. "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" and noting which positions I go to. < 1252542571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: same, more or less < 1252542579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the end, type a different lipogram to check that I have it all right. < 1252542584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that I can recall most of the letters on Qwerty < 1252542593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :punctuation marks, though, I'd have to mentally type < 1252542608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also because I've got OK at hunt-and-peck to find keys when I can't physically see the keyboard < 1252542616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwertyuiopasdf and then I stop. Well, hjkl is obvious too, and I know there's some assortment of z, x, c and v on the bottom row, but couldn't be sure about the positions. < 1252542619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to press a key at random, see what comes up, deduce where my hand is as a result < 1252542622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfghjkl; < 1252542625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zxcvbnm < 1252542630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, I'm cheating < 1252542633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd have to type out g, z, x, c, v, b, n and m < 1252542646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, you need to see the keyboard to type? < 1252542650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252542655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:30] it's also because I've got OK at hunt-and-peck to find keys when I can't physically see the keyboard < 1252542657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to see the keyboard to place my hands < 1252542659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1252542665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or feel around for the dedents on f and j < 1252542666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's slower < 1252542672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I shift off by one, but I just pick up my hands and put them back. < 1252542677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those dedents are stupid < 1252542683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just annoying for a non-touch typist < 1252542689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for Dvorak users, etc < 1252542693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1252542696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*non-home row typist < 1252542716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's good to dedent something to help blind people find the keyboard < 1252542856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about blind dvorak typists? < 1252542868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have dedents too, I imagine < 1252542876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably doesn't matter which keys, as long as it's known and consistent < 1252542881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252542886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blind people aren't stupid < 1252542888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ones nearer the middle would help in finding the dedents in the first place < 1252542891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can feel the edges of the keyboard < 1252542906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but that takes time < 1252542917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose they wouldn't be using the mouse as much as you advocate, though < 1252542919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if at all < 1252542934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm shocked, shocked, that blind people might have to have a different UI < 1252542937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch-clicking (i.e. without being able to see the mouse pointer) would be almost impossilbe < 1252542939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby renounce all pointing devices < 1252542948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sorry, I didn't mean it like that < 1252542953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252542954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1252542956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just joking < 1252542971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: out of interest, have you ever used a screen reader? < 1252543002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, most of the talk about web accessibility is, while a good principle, not all that useful in practice: first, because screen readers use IE and mess with the result and are Smart (you don't seriously think they're confused by layout tables?), secondly, because blind people have gotten used to all the quirks they hear < 1252543008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, actually < 1252543010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be interesting to < 1252543029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but all the good ones, e.g. JAWS, cost rather unreasonable amounts of mone < 1252543031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1252543063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many blind programmers use emacspeak < 1252543064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I agree with web accessibility, but not mainly for the reasons you express < 1252543065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a bunch < 1252543079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because it's easier to process the data, which means that it's more likely to be forward compatible < 1252543082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: google is also smart - but really, web accessibility comes automatically from good structure < 1252543087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252543099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. some websites assume a particular screen resolution < 1252543104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we both know that's an incredibly bad idea < 1252543118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason is, because it doesn't work at all on things that have screens of different shapes < 1252543126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, loads of other reasons too < 1252543128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes (with the caveat that I'm not going to bother making it look perfect on 800x600 screens) < 1252543137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1252543156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: incidentally, what do you think about the "site provides structure, user provides stylesheet" paradigm? < 1252543159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it has no chance of taking off now < 1252543166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but say it was dominant, rather than what we have atm < 1252543176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you say that it would be better or worse than what we have at present? < 1252543195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users should have the option of tweaking style, but having it solely down to the user misses the fact that presentation is a fundamental part of information (see e.g. Tufte) < 1252543224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so presentation is actually quite vital to information < 1252543234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd say worse < 1252543319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end it's all a crapshoot :P < 1252543354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will always optimize for having things be exactly as they want now without consideration for the future as long as our general intellectual characteristics stay the same < 1252543359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how the web turned out was really inevitable < 1252543370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, agreed on that, I think < 1252543376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although consideration for the future is how I want thinks now < 1252543380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been bitten too much... < 1252543381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1252543449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the day when we can tweak our cognitive structures without destroying our memories or the rest of our personality is the day that shit stops... so, not in our natural lifetimes, that's for sure < 1252543454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, not for sure, probable < 1252543473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming no singularity-type event) < 1252543484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people won't want their own cognitive structures tweaked < 1252543517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly would. < 1252543532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed, there's a chicken-and-egg problem < 1252543550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, by definition you wouldn't want your own desires changed? < 1252543566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I desire to be more rational and less emotional in my decision making, but I'm not. < 1252543582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about people who want to be smarter? < 1252543586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly want to be smarter, but I'm not < 1252543613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced that a rationality tweak would do that < 1252543619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were two separate things < 1252543622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read "The Caves of Steel" by Asimov? < 1252543637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas no; summarise? < 1252543649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a robot joins the police force in a nearish-future Earth < 1252543655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a strong-AI robot, that is < 1252543677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FWIW, Asimov thought the Three Laws were pretty good, so his competency regarding AI is questionable) < 1252543683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1252543696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting to see what happened, at least; although I suspect in RL it might turn out rather differently < 1252543713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think he saw the Laws as a safety valve that made robots suboptimal but was the only way they'd be accepted < 1252543714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, go on < 1252543717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than something to make them better < 1252543722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's not the issue < 1252543728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that robots can still do evil with the Three Laws < 1252543733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not sufficient for Friendliness(TM) < 1252543742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the robot jumped to all sorts of conclusions that the human didn't < 1252543756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... any justification for that happening < 1252543758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252543761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the human jumped to other conclusionss as a result of the robot's actions < 1252543765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were, more or less < 1252543780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, the culprit turned out to be their boss < 1252543792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the robot wouldn't believe that, so instead spent his time looking for spy beams, etc < 1252543815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any justification for the robot's behavior, I think that argument is monumentally weak... < 1252543826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the form "robots would do this, QED" < 1252543827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was justification, but I don't think it was massively strong < 1252543832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made for a good story, at least < 1252543861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the robot was too eager to assume that other people acted rationally, was the main assumption < 1252543867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Like most people, I was initially confused by EMI’s decision to release remastered versions of all 13 albums by the Liverpool pop group Beatles, a 1960s band so obscure that their music is not even available on iTunes." --A.V. Club < 1252543878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well that's a rather obvious flaw in the robot's programming, then! < 1252543885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252543899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, the conclusion was that the programming wasn't terribly good for the purpose < 1252543917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm skeptical that such an AI could even be of human intelligence < 1252543922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, there was quite a lot of robots doing evil in the sequel < 1252543934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it could not comprehend the concept of mind-of-a-different-type-than-mine < 1252543945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think it didn't < 1252543950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it accepted statements to the fact < 1252543956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it made incorrect assumptions otherwise < 1252543995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr... internet, you're back up, so don't go all unusably slow on me < 1252544200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think my DNS is out < 1252544298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work numerically? < 1252544309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea, gimme some numerics. < 1252544323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :74.125.45.100 < 1252544326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of Google's < 1252544336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works perfectly < 1252544357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :207.7.108.149 is Esolang < 1252544367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's opendns.net < 1252544381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66.116.109.44 < 1252544390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"64 bytes from mdnh-parking-adult-109.las.marchex.com (66.116.109.44): icmp_seq=1 ttl=236 time=185 ms" < 1252544396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, okay, .com < 1252544397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's the site you mean, though < 1252544408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :208.67.219.99 < 1252544451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eugh, DNS just came back up < 1252544459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, only partly < 1252544494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems like the Windows remote bluescreen bug has been fixed in Windows 7 RTM (although it is in Windows 7 RC) < 1252544502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea: send someone a packet, their computer bluescreens < 1252544521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, we discussed that before < 1252544523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember? < 1252544527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1252544531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really expect me to remember? < 1252544531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ladies 'n gents, it seems opendns didn't help < 1252544537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: earlier today, dude < 1252544539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in 9 channels at once < 1252544548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least two of which are actually active (not counting this one) < 1252544559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's why AnMaster never seems to have backlog! < 1252544563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously linear < 1252544568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with his >500 channels... < 1252544592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps AnMaster would be best served by a client that joins every single channel on a server, but only shows ones you choose at a given moment...) < 1252544607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he actually reads all of them at the same time... < 1252544629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I think it's rather suspicious that a serious bug turns up in older versions but not the newest, around upgrade time < 1252544648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? there's a reason it's a release candidate < 1252544653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they said "don't use it on your main machine" < 1252544658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I knoe < 1252544659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1252544660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "don't use it unless you're a technical user" < 1252544663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bug's in Vista too < 1252544668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which certainly didn't have those disclaimers < 1252544679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... let's get this straight < 1252544684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, most people who upgraded to Vista will probably upgrade to 7 < 1252544684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft left a bluescreen in vista to... < 1252544692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make them even more known as the crashy OS? < 1252544703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to reveal it when windows 7 came out as an upgrade persuader < 1252544706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense for microsoft to leave such a bug in windows an update ahead of time < 1252544716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh come on < 1252544719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some places, Microsoft are running adverts trying to persuade people XP is insecure < 1252544726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, sorry, I just feel like conspiracy-theorizing < 1252544730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what's come over me < 1252544734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is as tenuous as "the govt did 9/11 because glob boog duba" < 1252544764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, it can be trivially disproved, which is a stupid thing for a conspiracy theory < 1252544768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, if microsoft release a patch to vista < 1252544776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they obviously will ASAP < 1252544780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I can conspiratorise around that if I need to < 1252544784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't be very convincing < 1252544792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll probably be as convincing as a typical conspiracy theory < 1252544927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doop dop < 1252544982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping, do I have a connection? < 1252544988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1252544989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probaby < 1252544991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*probably < 1252545053 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252545283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, how come this is so slow? < 1252545291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grumble < 1252545293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you being packet-shaped? < 1252545293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orange suc < 1252545294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1252545297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1252545301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just down before < 1252545306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's going at something like 1B/hr < 1252545321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, 1B/2min < 1252545326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at this google page < 1252545442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could you set up a TCP/IP over IRC bridge? this socket still works :P < 1252545451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1252545457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'aww < 1252545488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imgur pages still load... < 1252545516 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1B/2min? Aren't bulk transfers done using packets of about 1500 bytes? < 1252545662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush, you. < 1252545664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow. < 1252545677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This google page is just the header and one ad, and its been loading for about 15 minutes. < 1252545797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, WTF? < 1252545800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Okay < 1252545805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mainly Wikipedia and Google. < 1252546272 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something in them is on Clearfeed? < 1252546372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Oh, don't be silly. < 1252546377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ISP just sucks shit. < 1252546391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it was down just an hour or so prior. < 1252546868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1252546876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it would *consistently* suck. < 1252547378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, anyone come up with something better than Cygwin yet, or will I have to take the plunge? < 1252547388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP exists, but it's worse < 1252547457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I very much get the impression DJGPP is old and DOS oriented < 1252547464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1252547477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's entirely usable as a command-line unixy system, despite that < 1252547503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it emulate the POSIX API like Wine does for Windows? < 1252547506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what cygwin does, and it sucks < 1252547511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it produce native binaries < 1252547520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., is it like a mini-kernel in userspace < 1252547521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bits of it that emulate easily; but it's native binaries it produces < 1252547526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it just implement POSIX with Windows directly < 1252547533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just doesn't implement things like fork() that can't be done easily in DOS < 1252547535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc; you can't compile straight bash with djgpp for obvious reasons < 1252547539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it unacceptable < 1252547551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's emacs for djgpp < 1252547560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in here said something about an undocumented windows API call that could be used to do it < 1252547568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant? Azstal? < 1252547574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fork() natively) < 1252547648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my measuring stick is basically "does drive:\foo as a path work without it mapping it itself" < 1252547659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it does, it's not emulating a unix FS, which is good < 1252547671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djgpp translates c:\autoexec.bat to /dev/c/autoexec.bat internally < 1252547679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, and that's wrong < 1252547686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there shouldn't be a special path system as opposed to windows < 1252547688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because: < 1252547705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's the distinction between "these tools, that normally run on unix systems, and use the POSIX API, can run on Windows, because we've implemented the POSIX API" (good) < 1252547707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1252547722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unix lackeys! have no fear, we've hacked up a library which creates a faux unix environment on top of windows!" < 1252547784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin is definitely the latter < 1252547786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mingw the former < 1252547790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mingw has no fork() < 1252547812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mingw tries to compile POSIX source into definitely Windows binaries < 1252547818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, mingw + implementation of fork() using that undocumented syscall + coreutils, bash, etc. = perfect < 1252547821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1252547829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what undocumented syscall? < 1252547841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:52] someone in here said something about an undocumented windows API call that could be used to do it < 1252547843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:52] Deewiant? Azstal? < 1252547845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:52] (fork() natively) < 1252547851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try and find it in my history < 1252547876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ZwCreateProcess[Ex] < 1252547890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's how cygwin does fork, ...maybe < 1252547896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought it would be called something like Bear114 < 1252547903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd try and cite that but my interwebs only likes about 3 sites < 1252547904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of the undocumented syscalls are < 1252547909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, not syscall per se < 1252547912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bear? < 1252547919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that intentionally, like, roaring wood-shitting thing < 1252547927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: more like teddy bear < 1252547931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it Boolean Excess Accumulator Register or something < 1252547932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1252547948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the social engineering virus which went around several years ago, telling people to delete a particular critical system file because it was a virus? < 1252547955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. < 1252547962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear thing < 1252547963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1252547970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same bear, apparently < 1252547979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, is it just me or is \WINDOWS really unorganized? < 1252547992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the icons are fun, though :) < 1252548000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which version of Windows are you thinking of? < 1252548008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC they reorganised it somewhat for Vista < 1252548008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm on xp atm < 1252548016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot saner in terms of command-line use < 1252548017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has wallpapers in the root, for instance < 1252548045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll try Windows 7 sometime. < 1252548057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it forces cleartype < 1252548061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on some fonts < 1252548062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: c:\windows\ was the standard place to save documents in windows 3.1 < 1252548068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe it or not < 1252548070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, because it was like unix /? < 1252548074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest is for dos stuff? < 1252548076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, all the programs had it as their default path < 1252548086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was simpler than that, the programs were all installed there < 1252548087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, c:\windows\ is all your windows files, just like c:\programming\ < 1252548093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it defaulted to current directory being the same as the executable < 1252548096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1252548103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programs used current dir as default save path < 1252548106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest is history < 1252548132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone else here ever used Windows Me as their main OS? I did for years < 1252548144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really is as terrible as they say. < 1252548146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used ME < 1252548155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Me < 1252548159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an acronym, but it's Me < 1252548173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, really? < 1252548175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1252548200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, my dad at least used to have a once-a-monster Pentium 4 really-tall workstation tower thingy, which he did audio editing on using some old version of Pro Tools (so quite a heavy workload), and it had Me and never crashed < 1252548206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably just very flaky drivers < 1252548213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :included by default < 1252548255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Fault Tolerant Heap (FTH) is a subsystem of Windows 7 responsible for monitoring application crashes and autonomously applying mitigations to prevent future crashes on a per application basis. For the vast majority of users, FTH will function with no need for intervention or change on their part." < 1252548260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that scares me < 1252548276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it mean that it attempts to figure out what the application meant to do in the case of things like null pointer dereference? < 1252548280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's microsoft planning for a false flag military operation, cooperating with the reptilian NWO < 1252548285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably not. < 1252548300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Fault Tolerant Heap is another example of the low level efficiency built into the system: FTH automatically corrects memory faults that cause applications to crash which has the pleasant side effect of preventing future crashes. How does FTH work, exactly? What types of memory problems does it address, specifically? How do developers monitor FTH events and can they override FTH's behavior? What does this all mean to < 1252548302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the average user? " < 1252548311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'm scared < 1252548322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more annoyingly, the article doesn't actually answer that question < 1252548323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, who uses Windows because of its internals? < 1252548331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just says "You will continue to learn about recoverability in Windows over the coming months here on C9." < 1252548340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252548373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's a video, which i haven't seen < 1252548374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had a program on my computer that was supposed to prevent crashes somehow < 1252548391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the people who brought you SoftRam! < 1252548394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a long time ago, and I remember little about it < 1252548407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two mp4 downloads, one marked "iPod", one marked "PSP" < 1252548471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: resolution, etc < 1252548483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1252548598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome sure does use quite a lot of memory < 1252548710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why microsoft haven't tried to make cleartype not suck < 1252548715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they all blind? < 1252548752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they actually like the look, is my guess < 1252548769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's basically impossible, ClearType is like the worst imaginable implementation of subpixel antialiasing < 1252548870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1252548872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is unbearable < 1252548879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers leeching neighbour's wifi < 1252548885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for WEP networks... < 1252548907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, only a WPA2 and I don't think I have the password to that one written down in any convenient place. < 1252549007 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely imagines taking a lotus coated surface and some silver-food-coloring treated water to school < 1252549213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You may want to see a therapist. < 1252549243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't actually do it < 1252549322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant a therapist for thoughts, Sgeo. You know. They call them "therapists". < 1252549344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with thoughts, unless they're suicidal < 1252549372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if I was seriously thinking about doing something reckless or authorities would assume is dangerous < 1252549384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you being purposefully stupid? I need to determine the best tone of facepalm to use. < 1252549558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, cygwin.com isn't loading. < 1252549569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh < 1252549578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know the opendns nameserver IPs? < 1252549585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not off by heart < 1252549628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252549633 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-018.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252549990 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@92.139.31.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252550173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In a dramatic reversal of long-term IPv6 stagnation, global IPv6 traffic globally grew more than 1,400% in the last 12 months. Even more remarkable, this growth is due primarily to one application and one ISP." < 1252550182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an awful lot. < 1252550210 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What application? < 1252550233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uTorrent. The ISP is Hurricane Electric (not a consumer ISP). < 1252550236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asert.arbornetworks.com/2009/09/who-put-the-ipv6-in-my-internet/ < 1252550376 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252550667 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252550739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRAR < 1252550743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone fix my interwebs. :| < 1252550779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, apparently OpenBSD releases don't even come signed or anything < 1252550793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's secure ... if you trust theo absolutely. < 1252551449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's google's ip? I don't THINK this is dns, but... < 1252551561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :74.125.45.100 < 1252551678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1252551680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads really quickly < 1252551734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cached? < 1252551765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1252551773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried a search. < 1252551788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it's probably just that IP < 1252551795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., my DNS is resolving to another one that I can't reach < 1252551807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it happens on every page, and they load; just slowly < 1252552700 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252554500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252554755 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1252555412 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252556215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seems the issue is with google.co.uk < 1252556220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1252556224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... or not < 1252556678 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252556743 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252556750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D< < 1252556760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1252556765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I interpret that smiley? < 1252556766 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1252556772 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very carefully? ;-) < 1252556772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252556781 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1252556806 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252556837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to beam their properly working wifi to the uk? < 1252556851 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't, nobody's invented one yet ;-)) < 1252556852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be great. thank < 1252556853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1252556857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\ns/s/ < 1252556867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: what, working wifi? < 1252556889 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION surely doesn't have it, Broadc... (dies before speaking the name of the unspeakable one) < 1252556958 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252556965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was whoising to find the country < 1252556969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I should have guessed from "Broadcom" < 1252557143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleargh < 1252557149 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm? < 1252557164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying having an internet connection that only works on some IPs, you see < 1252557166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, "bleargh" < 1252557180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grumble... need to ditch Orange... < 1252557286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bad ISP, incidentally. < 1252557335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as the support consists in its entirety of people who can't speak english reading lines of such stunning insight as "have you tried resetting all the router settings?" (in more dumbed-down words, naturally) from a book < 1252557363 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't all ISPs behave the same? < 1252557368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big ones, yes < 1252557383 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dare I ask, what country are you in again? UK? < 1252557387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the connection you're paid to give us is down" "um we'll send an engineer in 74 days" (It goes on 24 hours later) (73 days pass) "well we checked it and it is okay." < 1252557394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yeah < 1252557412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switching to http://bogons.net/ is the plan... < 1252557417 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heard today that wireless routers can cause headaches < 1252557429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, problems, or literal headaches? < 1252557433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the latter, that's FUD < 1252557433 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literal < 1252557440 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ya never know < 1252557443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WiFi is absolutely harmless, and many more things operate on the same band and more powerful than WiFi < 1252557449 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on figurative headaches, I can agree!! < 1252557457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if WiFi is bad for you, radio has already killed us in a nuclear holocaust < 1252557522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on who you ask < 1252557551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ask crackpots, you can learn very interesting things about the world < 1252557555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately they're all false < 1252557584 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ironically enough all the geniuses are often considered crackpots < 1252557609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Bogons seem good; they do IPv6, they have no transfer limit, they don't cap the raw ADSL stream, they're explicitly targeted at the tech-savvy, and it appears to consist of just two people (or at least, mainly); one of whom worked at the BBC in the early days of the internet and originally registered bbc.co.uk; a quick google search turned up a usenet posting by him linking to some... < 1252557611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...information about ISPs that have Phorm (evil deep-packet-inspection based advertising thing) or something similar to that, anyway, in a thread critical of it. < 1252557629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's still the UK, so we're talking the third-world 8mbit speed (only 6mbit at this exchange) < 1252557640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: they laughed at newton. they also laughed at bozo the clown < 1252557681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both studies and basic logic about the frequencies that have existed before WiFi show that it has no harmful effects < 1252557696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when I thought the Republicans had run out of shameful things to do: Republican Representative yells at the President mid-sentence in mid-sentence, stating "YOU LIE!" < 1252557710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news at 6: coffee is bad for you; news at 10: coffee is good for you < 1252557713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You lie. With your mouth! Lies. Come out of it." < 1252557732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yep; scientific studies, the mainstream news channels. < 1252557734 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you mean tonight?? < 1252557734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference? < 1252557747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yes. < 1252557752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "at this President mid-sentence in mid-sentence" < 1252557759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: XD < 1252557761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The President is pioneering Xzibit sentence technology. < 1252557773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear he hired some Russian immigrants to do it. < 1252557783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at the President, not this < 1252557828 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't watch the boring speech < 1252557893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it boring (note: I didn't either, for rather obvious reasons) < 1252557901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It mostly consisted of "What the Republicans say has less factual basis than claiming the Earth is flat." < 1252557923 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :politics is crazy in America, and I'm not exactly savvy or interested, so ... < 1252558008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American politics: Would you like right-wing insanity, or right-wing insanity with a little more fascism and crazy "moral "platforms? < 1252558013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"moral" platforms < 1252558024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because hey, after all, The Other Party(tm) might win. < 1252558038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the US. I'm kinda forced to care. < 1252558060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'd prefer an honest-to-god progressive. < 1252558080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, you can stop caring now, I'll spoil the long-term for you: it keeps drifting to the right and nothing ever gets done < 1252558095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for acts of war. < 1252558103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said long-term. < 1252558105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And threatening to unleash the very fires of hell on someone. < 1252558119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that called christianity :P < 1252558127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the rest of the world has that too < 1252558161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to nukes. < 1252558168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was referring to joking :| < 1252558184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't. A large number of Republicans wanted us to nuke Iraq... < 1252558186 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION already saw that coming from far away < 1252558199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, nuking Iraq? < 1252558201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the US too, but it's still mind-bogglingly annoying < 1252558206 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, your other references < 1252558219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plural? I'm not sure what you're referring to :P < 1252558252 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter < 1252558272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1252558289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thanks for making me immortal, my desperate urge to find out what you're referring to will keep me from resting in peace < 1252558291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252558406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what made the Republicans think that #esoteric would be any good at nuking Iraq? < 1252558435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: us as in "the US". < 1252558444 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just confused Obama ain't exactly pulled everyone out of overseas wars < 1252558447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 almost certainly knew that and decided to make a "joke" based on it < 1252558459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you mean politicians aren't honest? < 1252558460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1252558462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am < 1252558463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocked < 1252558493 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's some kind of twisted loyalty, pretending that somehow Afghanistan is so moral and acceptable and Iraq is some gaping "blood for oil" war < 1252558507 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see a huge difference < 1252558519 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(besides the obvious) < 1252558619 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just weird, that's all, "blah blah blah, war bad, Iraq bad, blah blah blah, we want out, blah blah blah (sends 30,000 more to Afghanistan) blah blah blah" ... huh??? < 1252558639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean... politicians... aren't consistent? < 1252558641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1252558642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am < 1252558644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1252558645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocked < 1252558648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1252558649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1252558650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am < 1252558652 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"our troops are dying for oil, blah blah blah, war bad (people keep signing up, everybody "supports" our troops) blah blah blah" < 1252558652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing < 1252558653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enter < 1252558655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after < 1252558657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every < 1252558658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word < 1252558676 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's. another. meme. that's. quite. popular. that. isn't. so. annoying. < 1252558678 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. " < 1252558683 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best. game. ever." < 1252558695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but annoyingness is a virtue! < 1252558698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyingosity. < 1252558759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you use a trackball? < 1252558791 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be surprised if yes < 1252558806 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marble Madness, ftw! ;-) < 1252558809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: any context to that? But no, I've never used one. I'd like to, but my gut feeling is that my thumb/fingers would be uncomfortable. Also, it has the same release-reposition problem for continued movement as a mouse. < 1252558818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1252558827 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried one out for the first time today, and it's awesome :) < 1252558833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1252558836 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a big ball you drag your hand across < 1252558844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind? < 1252558853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ball in the middle, ball on your thumb, ball on your fingers (buttons to side)? < 1252558858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ball on your thumb < 1252558866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that's awkward? < 1252558867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the release-reposition < 1252558870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, my hand is small, sure, but... < 1252558875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumb-ball trackballs are my favourite shape for them < 1252558880 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the release-reposition problem isn't that big, since it's only one motion < 1252558888 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's akward for all of 20 seconds < 1252558891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to move quickly, you generally leave the ball free-spinning as you move back < 1252558896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it harder to position exactly? I mean, these are just my impressions. < 1252558897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and precise movement's pretty easy too < 1252558902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1252558905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to position exactly, and to move quickly < 1252558908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're different motions < 1252558909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just buy a trackball, then. < 1252558912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hard to do anything in between < 1252558914 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were I getting a desktop computer, I'd definitely get one < 1252558918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: superior or inferior to the nub? < 1252558929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, even optical trackballs seem to get dirty really often < 1252558938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: optical trackball? < 1252558940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I don't think I was using it long enough to decide < 1252558941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that is, it sounds silly. < 1252558949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: where a laser detects movement rather than rollers < 1252558952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that uses optics to sense the ball itself, rather than rollers < 1252558961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not a laser usually < 1252558963 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be! < 1252558978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems pointless. < 1252559020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do you know what model it was? < 1252559032 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no clue, though I could find out easily < 1252559053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I've just noticed that my motor movement in my thumb is worse by far than my fingers < 1252559069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fingers are faster, more accurate and easier to move < 1252559077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's why a thumb trackball seems really awkward < 1252559100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, a trackball has the same context switch problem as a mouse < 1252559147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1252559164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's hard to get too excited about, unless I was doing image editing < 1252559250 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just out of curiosity, do you use vimperator? < 1252559274 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw someone using it today also; that was interesting < 1252559275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252559292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think vim/emacs are really better than current UIs < 1252559318 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vimperator? is that a Firefox add-on? < 1252559319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both suck a lot, and the more WIMPy UIs are more immediately discoverable than vimmy/emacsy ones, so I tend towards the former < 1252559326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes. < 1252559357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, see, that's the thing < 1252559368 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's keyboard browsing < 1252559372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, tbh, very attractive < 1252559379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am well aware of what it is. < 1252559382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stand by what I said. < 1252559398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some combination you press and it highlights every link with a number; you type in the number and you visit it < 1252559412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, you can either choose an erroneously spatial interface or an undiscoverable, inscrutable keyboard interface. < 1252559428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former is more common and discoverable, so I use them. Both suck. < 1252559464 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know you have tried Emacs recently, and the mouse support isn't exactly lacking < 1252559473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not tried it recently. I know emacs. < 1252559479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it because there wasn't really any other option. < 1252559499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you think I want a mouse-oriented WIMP interface, you're very mistaken. < 1252559533 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't understand what you prefer then < 1252559588 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't hate both keyboard and mouse and still like computers < 1252559596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not say keyboard vs mouse. < 1252559603 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't perfect (by far) but are all we have < 1252559646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's understandable, considering it basically doesn't exist at the moment. But WIMP-style UIs are erroneously spatial, and vim/emacs-style UIs are not discoverable by the same mechanism as which they are used; take a WIMP toolbar: you see the options, and can click them: the way you discover them is the way you operate them: by spatial elements. Plus, they often sacrifice clarity for the... < 1252559648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...sake of saving one or two keystrokes. < 1252559674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not yet found a perfect solution, but there are ideas in my head I'm toying with. < 1252559730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a tradeoff you can't avoid < 1252559737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree. < 1252559746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIMP UIs aren't discoverable because they're spatial. < 1252559756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're discoverable and operable spatially, sure. < 1252559775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But just as you can have a UI operable by means other than spatial, you can have a UI discoverable by other means too. < 1252559853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erroneously spatial explained roughly: In a spatial UI, there's a distance between two buttons, say; there are two choices and neither has more "difficulty" or inherent distance, but one of them is further away from your pointer: the act of mousing to one or the other is inherently unnecessary work, just as a 3D UI is bad because you have to continually move around things to find them. < 1252559994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confused < 1252560095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably helps to have these thoughts occupy your mind for at least a month if you want to unerstand that. < 1252560113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*understand, rather; I am truly a terrible typer on this keyboard. < 1252560119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, ChatZilla. Typer is a word. < 1252560134 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it accepts "typist" though < 1252560286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fyes, proxably. Bet typist us tou mlch af u rel wurd fouowr mii tou grayc yt wtx usagez. < 1252560303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's ridiculously hard to read. < 1252560550 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1252561338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw, the numbered links are near-useless < 1252561359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it takes as much time to look at it, recognize the number, and type it as it does to mouse to it and click it < 1252561379 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love numbered links! < 1252561382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it means you aren't going to a mouse! < 1252561452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yet it saves you no time at all. also, with a nub mouse, there's no mouse context switch time < 1252561455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mousing is faster < 1252561470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clarification: the numbered links are actually a-z0-9) < 1252561477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252561488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(iirc), maybe < 1252561571 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd rather use a clit mouse than move your hand over to a real one? < 1252561572 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1252561621 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: leave < 1252561624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252561649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: Infinite motion without repositioning, bitch. No wrist strain, bitch. < 1252561653 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wry? < 1252561670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1252561688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, zero context switch time is hugely important < 1252561698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it means the damn thing actually gets used < 1252561705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird completely missed the double entendre :( < 1252561716 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess e's a tad young < 1252561739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a pretty good double entendre < 1252561742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a pastebin for that < 1252561745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, qdb < 1252561757 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap < 1252561761 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even notice that < 1252561776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what was the yikes for? < 1252561785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm a bit tired, actually < 1252561816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i generally don't look out for innuendo for whatever reason < 1252561828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just young < 1252561855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no. < 1252561886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old are you? < 1252561943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14, but seriously, I just don't look for innuendo most of the time < 1252561954 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's an old man at heart, and that's all that counts ;-) < 1252561954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, google loaded fast < 1252561955 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. You're young. Trust me on this. < 1252561957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my plight over? < 1252561968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: did you know that if you state something over and over, it makes it true? < 1252561983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're just young for using a playground tactic :) < 1252562019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, but the catch is that you're too young to realize it's true < 1252562043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: this _is_ an elaborate joke, right? otherwise you're just being incredibly stupid < 1252562064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought it was already established that everyone in this channel is quite young < 1252562078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes, gramps < 1252562080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh snap < 1252562101 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes ehird play with his old Apple IIc for punishment ... < 1252562114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now come on, that's a terrible innuendo < 1252562121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even make any sense < 1252562223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be back in 2 or 3 years < 1252562247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: umm... bye? < 1252562254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rather anticlimatic exit < 1252562270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making a joke. Lost on you, apparently. < 1252562343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correlating that with anything said recently either that's a really crappy joke or isn't even intended to be a joke at all. < 1252562353 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former < 1252562456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume it'll just remain an elusive mystery for all time then < 1252562487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a few years < 1252562629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the joke "ha ha, in 2-3 years you will understand the amazing amazingosity of innuendo?" because that's not, you know, a joke, unless you mean the xkcd-style jokes which are perfect jokes except for their lack of humour < 1252562688 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252562705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is largely that you don't get the joke < 1252562733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., there is no joke, i.e., it isn't the former, it's the latter < 1252562767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a joke. However, it's on you, and, what's more, you don't get it. < 1252562776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it all the funnier < 1252562802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure hope my mild bemusement is worth whatever effort it took to cook it up. < 1252562926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252563137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the only joke I could think of is "I'll be back in 2 or 3 years [when you finally understand this joke]" < 1252563146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which popped to mind almost immediately after reading it, but I dismissed it as too crap. < 1252563173 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252563191 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I won't answer that, because no matter what I say, you'll take the answer the wrong way < 1252563243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not answering is another form of answer that can be wrongly taken in exactly the same way, so that makes no sense :) < 1252563280 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1252563317 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonetheless, if I answer honestly, you'll probably get angry at me because you don't understand it < 1252563362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you live in some kind of warped universe where I'm filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day? because your behavior is completely incomprehensible to me. < 1252563452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, I presume, is Yet Another Joke oh the veritable rivers of laughter < 1252563474 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252563516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, some things can only be learned, not taught < 1252563532 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, I'm not going to elaborate on what those things are) < 1252563543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, master of zen and vague bullshit < 1252563549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed! < 1252563564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252563577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was fun, whereby fun I mean tiring < 1252563600 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252563648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252563684 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252563735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1252564222 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252564448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do you live in some kind of warped universe where I'm filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day? because your behavior is completely incomprehensible to me. < 1252564469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, could you invite ehird's mirror twin here? should be interesting. < 1252564486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure such an entity could be described as ehird < 1252564522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghird naturally, g for good rather than evil < 1252564541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your definition of good i guess < 1252564613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course he shouldn't stay too long. he would probably be destined for a horrible fate: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth < 1252564676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i clicked it but my half-working internet connection doesn't work on that particular IP < 1252564679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever internet connection! < 1252564694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would work if i waited a few years... < 1252564696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE COPPRO < 1252564726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, foiled again < 1252564743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: out of curiosity, do you get his joke? < 1252564777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I meant to say: we do have a qdb, ais523 < 1252564783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good point < 1252564784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone add it? < 1252564806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i didn't find the actual joke yet < 1252564814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "I'll be back in 2 to 3 years" < 1252564820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps with different grammar, I don't recall < 1252564846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees nothing wrong with that sentence's grammar < 1252564846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you'd rather use a clit mouse than move your hand over to a real one? < 1252564849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: be warned that if you don't get it, we'll hear from coppro that you're just too young. too young. < 1252564853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1252564857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one before < 1252564862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there's another? < 1252564863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro made that one after < 1252564873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] * coppro will be back in 2 or 3 years < 1252564875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] coppro: umm... bye? < 1252564876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] that's a rather anticlimatic exit < 1252564878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:57] I was making a joke. Lost on you, apparently. < 1252564911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(continue similar "too young!" and "it's funny because you're not sure what I mean" for about half an hour) < 1252564918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well i should be too young, since i aspire to be filled with childlike naivete and bounce around fields of candy floss all day. unfortunately the universe fails to oblige. < 1252564936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not forgetting to brush my teeth, mind you < 1252564990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only toothpaste is overpowering bubblegum flavor and has sugar in it. < 1252565007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the water is Ribena < 1252565076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what i aspire to. you are confusing it with this world's ersatzes. < 1252565117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am merely describing the world in which ehird-the-innocent-14-year-old-oblivious-to-genitalia-and-all-that-entails exists < 1252565122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't shoot the messenger < 1252565126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1252565279 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you sure your Internet troubles are the ISP and not the wireless? < 1252565300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it was immediately preceded by my router's connection page showing invalid authentication/ppp failed/etc, yes. < 1252565306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm not on WiFi. < 1252565321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the ethernet cable is distorting my packets! < 1252565323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, but you mentioned wanting a good wifi I thought < 1252565324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly I need a gold-plated one. < 1252565339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because running an ethernet cable across continents turns out to be even less practical. < 1252565347 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what OS? < 1252565356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the router console is a web page. < 1252565387 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, do you have access to a different OS for test purposes? < 1252565393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1252565400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am 99% sure. < 1252565414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interwebs went down, they came back not at all, then they came back mostly but with some IPs being skittish < 1252565416 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% sure of what? router's fault? ISP? < 1252565424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then google started working smoothly, then stopped again < 1252565426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ISP < 1252565433 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what brand router? < 1252565436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that I've had many bad experiences with this ISP < 1252565442 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1252565451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's an Orange Livebox. technically it's just "rented" < 1252565465 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be just some old firmware bug, who knows < 1252565471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252565491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has all the characteristics of dodgy routing by my ISP < 1252565499 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1252565841 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252566344 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh ... anyone ever taken a look at Befreak? < 1252566351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so. < 1252566353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Once we move to 37signals Accounts we will be hashing passwords." < 1252566361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ from the company that brought you Ruby on Rails... < 1252566550 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252566607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"..." indeed. < 1252566795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1252566804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .tar.gz doesn't have BFC like they claim < 1252566812 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no docs included either (apparently) < 1252566825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nsl.com has a befreak page. < 1252566831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though obviously k-oriented < 1252566837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an implementation < 1252566864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and k3 for windows to run it is available in nsl.com/misc or somewhere. < 1252567012 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252567038 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K looks more confusing than Befreak!! < 1252567080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the Forth-ish stack ops ("over", "under") seem appealing < 1252567093 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should buckle down and just learn enough Forth to write my own Befunge93 interpreter ;-) < 1252567232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is quite impenetrable at first but is learnable in about an hour. < 1252567257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, fully grasping the basic concept and knowledge about most of the operators) < 1252567278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's array based, like APL < 1252567279 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backflip, what kind of stupid name is that? ;-) < 1252567301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I dunno ... < 1252567373 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't understand the reason for inventing Backflip ... < 1252567395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: it was an exercise in how computable those simple rules could be < 1252567406 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output only as extension?? < 1252567412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a post on esoteric.sange.fi where someone was suggesting adding them to Befunge to provide function-call capability < 1252567419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tarpits aren't meant to be useful < 1252567420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I/O has nothing really to do with how a language operates computationally < 1252567441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about theoretical properties, mathematical beauty and purity, etc < 1252567460 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, just less fun when you can't do as much with it :-/ < 1252567558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: btw, how the living fuck are you meant to pronounce your name? < 1252567607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Unassignable needs more love < 1252567614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really fun and challenging to program in < 1252567637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried < 1252567639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gave up < 1252567641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252567666 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you mean my nickname as I haven't told you my real (pronounceable) name :-) < 1252567680 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roo-JOO-loh < 1252567709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I'm pretty sure I don't know of any languages with silent Xs. < 1252567715 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in (drum roll please) Esperanto, an artificial spoken language older than all of us combined (1887) < 1252567728 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to be "g with circumflex" < 1252567732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1252567742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban in your face :) < 1252567773 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :─¥ < 1252567782 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, that doesn't show up correctly for me < 1252567796 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruĝulo < 1252567799 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there ;-) < 1252567805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esperanto! < 1252567808 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good ol' "esperanto-postfix" in Emacs, heh) < 1252567810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have recognised the notation < 1252567817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eo.wikipedia.org accepts it too < 1252567828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esperanto is boring :| < 1252567833 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite common to use "gx" (although "gh" is more official) < 1252567835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my keyboard can type ĝ < 1252567854 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine probably could too via Windows input crapola, but I'm too lazy to learn how < 1252567869 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you really know / like lojban? < 1252567880 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, speaking of esoteric languages ...) < 1252567881 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252567882 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1252567883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Lojban, unfortunately I don't know it, although I started learning it before < 1252567888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hope to be fluent in it one day < 1252567894 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is Esperanto boring? < 1252567907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly like every other natural language, except human-constructed < 1252567939 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less wonky in the grammar bits (more rigid spelling and pronunciation), that should be a good thing < 1252568002 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, if you wanna learn Lojban, you gotta get some reading material, which is probably a lot more scarce than E-o stuff < 1252568008 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck :-/ < 1252568019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there's a wonderful online book about it < 1252568053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making sentences about how I say that I say that my name is [Elliott Hird, except not perfectly because it isn't totally pronounceable in Lojban] in no time :P < 1252568080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably your name would be pronounced exactly as you say it normally < 1252568089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Lojban doesn't have the sounds for that < 1252568090 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign languages usually don't change that except for written purposes < 1252568101 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lojban isn't the one talking, you are ;-) < 1252568104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban has a 1:1 written-said correspondence < 1252568121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: you must transliterate your name to use it in a lojban sentence < 1252568125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full stop, no exceptions < 1252568136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there might be a funky quoting thing < 1252568142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd just be awkward < 1252568185 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying, I don't think Bill Clinton would call himself "Vilhelmo Klintono" just for linguistic sake < 1252568199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? it's how lojban works < 1252568211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simply the language < 1252568229 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252568777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, 99-bottles-of-beer.net Befunge example is weird, seems to never end, even wraps (?) to negative numbers ... that can't be right, can it?? < 1252569599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252569600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252569807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252569851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does work with cfunge. Well, the downloadable version, anyway. < 1252569954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inline version seems to have "\0\0" replaced with "{CODE}{CODE}", which is not very good; probably some sort of regexp backreference mishap. < 1252569980 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's why < 1252570001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tips on the site said change "{CODE}{CODE}" to "{}{}" which still didn't exactly work like I expected < 1252570053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite a silly tip. < 1252570083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should make a better tip. < 1252570167 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goat head < 1252570533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; when I wrote {CODE} in the comment field, it got substituted with the (broken) program, while the \0s in the comment turned into {FORM_COMMENT}. Impressive. < 1252570550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately the captcha also didn't work without cookies, so that version didn't get sent. < 1252570743 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wacky < 1252570750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, no big loss I guess < 1252570762 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.S. Found a very small (< 1k) Perl version of a Befunge interpreter < 1252570777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know mtve also wrote a small one too, but this one is more compact :-) < 1252570778 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol4_3/tpj0403-0017.html < 1252570982 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly works although "?" may not (dunno) < 1252570997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't tell if the comments are comments or code!! ;-) < 1252571133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the Javascript Befunge-93 at http://www.quirkster.com/js/befunge.html -- which I've used when in some unfriendly place without a Befunge interpreter handy -- makes # an infinite loop when executed from right to left. < 1252571166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does jump properly left-to-right; I guess it just adds a (1, 0) vector after the normal delta, instead of moving twice. < 1252571248 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of interpreters obviously aren't very well tested < 1252571273 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of that is the fact that most examples are hard to come by (besides the "official" distribution) < 1252571282 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lot of up-to-date Befunge pages < 1252571301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, in fact it just initializes the '#' command handler as "dir", which is the current-movement-function variable, and obviously gets the initial value stuck in the table. < 1252571336 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been told that Bequnge also incorrectly handles # < 1252571393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That page says it's been tested against the Befunge-93 portion of Mycology; I guess that only does jumps in one direction. < 1252571432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe you should add a # in some other direction, too; you're supposed to be thorough, aren't you? < 1252571505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there enough space? < 1252571520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252571604 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and BTW, I can't find any links to "Betty" (although Wikipedia mentions it) < 1252571676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooz had a rather nice jsbef (peculiarities: it reads a spec about the actual execution using a nifty simplified markup from a text field on the page, so you can do befunge variants trivially), but there's just the archive.org and local copies now. < 1252571691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should ask him about whether I could re-publish it somewhere. < 1252571775 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js as in Javascript? < 1252571795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252571812 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saw a Silverlight one earlier today, didn't bother, even the author admitted it was buggy, and even he only tested on two samples < 1252571871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20060925160700/kotisivu.mtv3.fi/quux/jsbef/index.html if you want to see the archived copy; I'm not sure it works after archive.org mangling, but the befunge command descriptions in the text field are nicely concise, especially given that those are what's executed. < 1252571881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I should be at lunch now. < 1252572161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252572231 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mycology's mycorand.bf is the only useful part for Befunge93? < 1252572823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology.b98 and mycouser.b98 both should work in a Befunge-93 interpreter, as long as it ignores the out-of-the-box (i.e. outside 80x25) text. < 1252572846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can cut the corresponding squares off them if not. < 1252572902 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, thanks < 1252572945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's what I remember hearing; it's not *my* test suite. < 1252573624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, I'm supposed to assume that if something works one way it works the other way as well :-P < 1252573668 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost conceivable that + fails if adding 42 and 2 but always otherwise returns the correct result... I can't test /everything/ < 1252573675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have such a disclaimer in the readme < 1252573710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but there are a lot more integer-pairs than cardinal directions. Still, I do get the point. < 1252573730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not enough room to test all cardinal directions, I think < 1252573737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just sure that someone, somewhere, somehow has implemented [] so that they work in some directions but not all. < 1252573740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :West might still be fittable < 1252573756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] are tested using a noncardinal vector < 1252573764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which should hopefully guarantee that the cardinals work. < 1252573775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's reasonable. < 1252573789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're probably used for all the cardinals before that anyway. < 1252573979 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252574039 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mycology's Befunge-93 area does do a _,#! #:< for output at least once < 1252574088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when testing # over the edge, it goes west. < 1252574093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm; maybe the page was lying, then. Or just used some ancient version. < 1252574108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# over the edge was there even in ancient versions < 1252574127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_,#! #:< might not have been < 1252574165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ancient version of the interpreter itself, then. < 1252574339 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252574355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252574359 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are crazy < 1252574360 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/You_have_two_cows/18#Befunge < 1252574411 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so crazy about that? < 1252574452 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a working code to me < 1252574478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What's crazy is that it doesn't use the >:#,_ print-loop idiom even though it's going eastwards. < 1252574511 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole site (Uncyclopedia) and its explanation of the "two cows" is crazy < 1252574513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not necessarily obvious unless you're experienced < 1252574522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the "COWBOL" and Visual Basic examples ;-) < 1252574534 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even puts an explicit 0 instead of relying on empty stack popping < 1252574548 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all a joke ;-) < 1252574577 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not x86 assembly? < 1252574588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it assumes an OS by necessity < 1252574624 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless it used libc, but I guess that's silly < 1252574633 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s//sillier/ < 1252574649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do read the Visual Basic example, that's by far the funniest ;-) < 1252574666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N64 and Game Boy assembly examples are funny. They don't exactly make much sense (both just set some sort of external value, GB one even referring to the undeclared num_cows) but the way they do it looks very realistic. < 1252574679 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got the idea at the glimpse < 1252574690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can easily imagine seeing a ";number of cows can only be modified during vblank" comment in a GB program. < 1252574738 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252574746 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just saw the Atari Jaguar page ... very funny < 1252574783 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect pic!! < 1252574811 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the python implementation much < 1252574839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jaguar was released in the US in 1992 to much fanfare, some trumpetfare and a good amount of bus fare." < 1252574847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the N64 "use 'sw ..., offset(reg)' even if it does do a signed offset, instead of loading the full 8015F15C value to a register, since it saves an instruction" is also pretty realistic. < 1252574965 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To make matters worse, the only programming language that the Atari Jaguar supported was the Brainfuck language borrowed from the Amiga." < 1252575164 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252575180 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1252575289 0 :immibis_!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1252575343 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1252575349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those who are wondering (which is exactly none of you), the C64 basic entry "10 POKE 808,237" makes the STOP key stop working, so you can't interrupt the cow-printing. (Or at least it won't do what the key would normally do.) < 1252575351 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis < 1252575452 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stops stop, eh? ironic ;-) < 1252575498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless the 237 is actually the correct value to point at, but I don't see why anyone should do that. Except maybe to make sure you *can* interrupt it properly, but that doesn't sound very likely.) < 1252575549 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another gem from Uncyclopedia: < 1252575554 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because Esperanto is not compatible with Electronic devices, most Esperantists have gotten by using the letters h, x, ^, and 卐. So the sentence 'good morning' becomes 'hxx^卐h^ 卐xh^x'." < 1252575649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your Father was a baboon's rump and your mother spent all her time backed up against the wall by sailors! < 1252575649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, laŭŝajne estas rano en mia bideo. < 1252575654 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nice Red Dwarf reference) < 1252575853 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, it's late < 1252575856 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite all < 1252575858 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252577181 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Download IceChat at www.icechat.net" < 1252579234 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-bxztxecskgvlsirx JOIN :#esoteric < 1252580057 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@83.197.102.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252580499 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252580680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/You_have_two_cows/18#Befunge <-- looking at the TI-BASIC further below makes me laugh < 1252580712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if skipping closing parenthesis is actually valid. brb going to test < 1252580727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh it seems so < 1252580764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ZX Spectrum one amused me < 1252580805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1252580825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find needs some -exec that runs processes concurrently < 1252580846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am annoyed by the pointlessness of some parts of some of the entries; for example, the SQL one has a "LIMIT 2" completely arbitrarily; it's an aggregate function call, it will never return more than one row. < 1252580850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Use xargs and & < 1252580864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even something crude like splitting in roughly two equal sized chunks would be useful < 1252580883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how would that work? < 1252580920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey the dc one... < 1252580938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without the xargs, even: find foo | while read -r x; do stuff x &; done < 1252580965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I would prefer to not start one process per file < 1252580972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are thousands of files to be processes < 1252580974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processed* < 1252580983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Linux, processes are cheap < 1252580994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not when those will do a lot of work at once < 1252581004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I wanted to use both cores, not get OOM < 1252581032 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, if you're doing something expensive then that's probably not a good idea < 1252581052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the processes are quite memory intensive, each one will need a few MB during processing each file < 1252581083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more about time; if they complete in 0.001s it doesn't matter if they need a few MB < 1252581098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe 4-5 seconds per file < 1252581117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's just a one-shot thing, just do the find, dump results to file, split it in twain, run two instances of your process. < 1252581126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not a one shot thing. < 1252581133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, because yes I thought about that < 1252581138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not a one-shot thing, make a script which does that. :-P < 1252581143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :P < 1252581155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a bit of Perl for that sort of thing, but it's strictly for dispatching processes for our Sun Grid Engine cluster, not a general-purpose thing. < 1252581158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe I'll write a parallel find wrapper script for find < 1252581202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is a solved problem, if you want a more permanent solution < 1252581216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ? < 1252581222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1252581222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/parallel/ for example < 1252581236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :savannah.nongnu.org uses an invalid security certificate. < 1252581236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The certificate is not trusted because the issuer certificate is not trusted. < 1252581236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Error code: sec_error_untrusted_issuer) < 1252581239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252581241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know < 1252581270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's a cacert cert. < 1252581333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah yes seems very useful < 1252581343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if ubuntu has a package for it < 1252581380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch doesn't seem to, at least < 1252581384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm doesn't seem so < 1252581453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though xargs does have the -P flag too, like they mention. < 1252581544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that seems useful too < 1252581554 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading the manpage is always a good thing to do first. < 1252581557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't need the fancy, that just might do it. The parallel page lists all the shortcomings, though. < 1252581759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xargs seems enough here < 1252582956 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-bbfdczmsejamtzeg JOIN :#esoteric < 1252583015 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252583021 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252583023 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252583322 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252583542 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1252583929 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-vcprjvorjokatpwl JOIN :#esoteric < 1252584301 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Story on Digg databases hits reddit; people argue against what Digg did; Digg database engineer signs up on reddit, starts flaming and hits negative karma within an hour: http://www.reddit.com/user/philovivero http://digg.com/users/philovivero < 1252584423 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252584453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, digg databases? what happened? < 1252584494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click on the first link and you'll see the story. < 1252584994 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252585574 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252585630 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252585764 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252586380 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252587443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252588972 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-cbfhkvdyaykgyuks JOIN :#esoteric < 1252590666 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252590779 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252591007 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-zcgflwxhmctvqpqk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252592076 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252592085 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1252593006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An amusing quote from the article, btw; "Computing the intersection with a JOIN is much too slow in MySQL, so we have to do it in PHP." < 1252594824 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawl < 1252595920 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252597183 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252597542 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252598791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do you think they ever heard of "benchmarking"? < 1252598816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they've heard of it, they benchmarked their PHP to beat their MySQL < 1252598848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have a really hard time to believe that php would be faster than mysql at it. Even though mysql sucks. But so does PHP < 1252598871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can easily be faster if the way they're doing the query and/or their DB structure sucks < 1252598900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so < 1252598972 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252599689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds himself humming "summon bigger fish" < 1252599906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh < 1252601156 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252602638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh and I thought I mentioned iwc earlier today, seems I misremembered < 1252602738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't get iwc today though < 1252602767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with the annotation? < 1252602797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define knock < 1252602798 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* deliver a sharp blow or push :"He knocked the glass clear across the room" \ * rap with the knuckles; "knock on the door" \ * the sound of knocking (as on a door or in an engine or bearing); "the knocking grew louder" < 1252602810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well the issue was the reverse, I understood it was supposed to be a pun on that word, just not what else it was supposed to be like < 1252602819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has knock got to do with it? < 1252602834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know what knocking is < 1252602839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least some of the meanings < 1252602845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those mentioned there at least < 1252602850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am guessing you are missing the right meaning of knock < 1252602858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was not listed there < 1252602862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and that one was? < 1252602906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'find fault with; express criticism of; point out real or perceived flaws; "The paper criticized the new movie"; "Don't knock the food--it's free"' < 1252602945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah didn't know that meaning < 1252603287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what on earth has the vlc logo has got to do with that song though? I'm pretty sure that cone thing near the start was the vlc logo < 1252603513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot make out the lyrics enough to tell if there's anything relevant said at that point < 1252603542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sung < 1252603553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252603600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I was playing it *in* vlc I first thought vlc failed in some way and was displaying a dummy image or something like that < 1252603703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it _is_ also a generic road sign... < 1252603746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_cone < 1252603831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes but that specific image of it... < 1252603838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is exactly the vlc logo < 1252603857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it may still be used for the generic meaning < 1252606209 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252607534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1252609639 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252610345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252612079 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252612216 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:24:09 do read the Visual Basic example, that's by far the funniest ;-) < 1252612222 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've yet to see anything funny on Uncyclopedia < 1252612226 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I doubt this will be the first < 1252612697 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.13/2009073109]" < 1252612715 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252612793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ever considered a fingerprint for gettext? < 1252612892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that I can't even remember what gettext is... nope < 1252612899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some localization thing? < 1252612914 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I18N thingy? < 1252613418 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: man 3 gettext < 1252613441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: google.com/search?q=gettext < 1252614454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gettext is for lazy fornrs! < 1252614689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "L2SPK enlgz", right? < 1252614712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "fornrs" short for "fornicators"? < 1252614807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:59 meh < 1252614814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the SSL system is broken anyway? < 1252614823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, context? < 1252614831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:56 savannah.nongnu.org uses an invalid security certificate. < 1252614832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:56 The certificate is not trusted because the issuer certificate is not trusted. < 1252614834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13:56 (Error code: sec_error_untrusted_issuer) < 1252614845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I know it is broken < 1252614847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSL is useful for avoiding eavesdropping; the verification system is shittier than a pile of bricks that are shit. < 1252614857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is still irritating when firefox does that however < 1252614866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so disable it :P < 1252614870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1252614880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, it's probably in about:config < 1252614884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an extension < 1252614887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252614896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possibly the most annoying error page ever though, I agree < 1252614909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes three clicks and a wait of almost a second to bypass it < 1252614915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, especially since there are so many clicks to get around it yeah < 1252614933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also what... you agreed with me? < 1252614933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no doubt the people who made it have never read a book on usability, because that shit does *not* make the user comprehend what you're trying to tell them < 1252614934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1252614941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the universe is going to end this time < 1252614941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm the alternate universe ehird. < 1252614951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh ok. Nice to meet you < 1252614952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i jump around in fields of candy floss all day and am filled with childlike naivete. < 1252614955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you get the memo? < 1252614966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-MemoServ- You have 0 memos (0 new). < 1252614967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1252614989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torernts are unreasonably slow < 1252615004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http download: ~800kiB/s < 1252615012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torrent: ~150kiB/s < 1252615018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*torrents < 1252615022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is on a high-popularity torrent too < 1252615034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if everyone was downloading from the same server at the same time? would you get ~800kiB/s then too? < 1252615045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, see e.g. usenet providers < 1252615047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set browser.ssl_override_behavior to 2 from the default 1, in which case it automatically downloads the certificate; that's a bit less clicking involved. < 1252615061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost impossible to get a usenet provider to give you much less than your connection speed < 1252615066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well assuming a server with good bw. but that costs quite a bit < 1252615100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently not too much; you can get unlimited download, uncapped, uncensored usenet with a huge number of groups for $15/mo < 1252615165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I meant for the server hoster, and yes it would work out if you get customer to pay. But I haven't seen linux distros over usenet. And linux distros over torrent is quite common < 1252615178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there are Linux distros on usenet < 1252615179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often where they can't afford bw < 1252615189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usenet has everything < 1252615195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh really? would be split into thousands of messages for the iso? < 1252615206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Modern clients handle that automatically, dood. < 1252615213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They show it as one and download them all automatically. < 1252615215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then combine them < 1252615218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252615228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly I haven't used any modern client then < 1252615233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got some Debian disk image or other such thing torrented several megabytes per second. But I'm not completely certain on this. < 1252615247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, obviously I mean binary oriented clients. < 1252615255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I maxed my connection speed on the gentoo torrents a few times < 1252615257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, everyone loves the Linux ISOs. Not so much love for the Windows ISOs. < 1252615278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone can max out their connection on Ubuntu 17.97 Pooping Porpoise. < 1252615296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well if a torrent isn't popular, what do you expect? < 1252615306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1775 seeds, 2537 peers. < 1252615309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it's a ghost down. < 1252615311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*town < 1252615313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for ubuntu for example? < 1252615315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and here's why it doesn't fetch the certificate by default: < 1252615316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody downloading this, nosiree. < 1252615318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Similar numbers. < 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This patch sets a default of 1, meaning that the cert dialog will be < 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-populated with the site's URL, but as Kai mentions in bug 401575, by not < 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-fetching it, we reduce the amount of text the user sees, and remove the < 1252615319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ability to immediately click the override button." < 1252615328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except all the Ubuntu ivory tower people have 100000000000000000000 jiggabit connections :P < 1252615362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with SSL is that it's trying to replace human reason in determining whether you can trust something < 1252615368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that will simply never work < 1252615381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes "falling tree" animation in widelands is broken when you run at 2x normal speed. < 1252615448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8248056.stm < 1252615457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope they used TCP/IP over carrier pigeon. < 1252615464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise I call for a rematch. < 1252615503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1252615529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with QoS? < 1252615529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Sure, the bandwidth is nice, but the latency sucks." // this) < 1252615536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know what that is < 1252615553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they should have made it carry an SSD < 1252615554 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252615558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure pigeons can handle 81g :P < 1252615559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is a RFC for IP over avian carrier with QoS < 1252615560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252615570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why ...? < 1252615577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I committed some nerd sin by not knowing that? < 1252615581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252615613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, did they use QoS or not ;P < 1252615627 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, SSL has global namespace. < 1252615629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They used a USB memory stick. < 1252615635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yes? < 1252615640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -_- You don't know what QoS is? < 1252615661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what QoS stands for. < 1252615665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1252615796 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global namespace is not good for trustworthiness determination. < 1252615844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1252615906 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mountainamerica.com? What the heck is that? Etc... < 1252615920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A squatter page :P < 1252615934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, DNS really needs distributing. Fuck the root servers. < 1252615944 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like phishing page (I don't recall what the exect name was). < 1252616551 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1252616726 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1252616727 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1252618368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and speaking of the traffic cone, it's not exactly the VLC logo image. For one thing, in the video there's a dark ellipse on top of the cone; that's not in the VLC logo. And the VLC logo has a bit of reflections going on in there. (Admittedly it could be an older VLC logo, since it's so very similar. But it's not the same image that's in icon and about-box of the current VLC versions.) < 1252618402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traffic coon < 1252618429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:05:01 Story on Digg databases hits reddit; people argue against what Digg did; Digg database engineer signs up on reddit, starts flaming and hits negative karma within an hour: http://www.reddit.com/user/philovivero http://digg.com/users/philovivero < 1252618431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha sweet < 1252618606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:30:06 An amusing quote from the article, btw; "Computing the intersection with a JOIN is much too slow in MySQL, so we have to do it in PHP." < 1252618608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1252619336 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they're doing a full cartesian join :P < 1252619398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... Is quite retarded. < 1252620060 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252620825 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252622643 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252624084 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252624330 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252624733 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252624735 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252626031 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-171.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252626255 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bo-ring < 1252626965 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252629420 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252630063 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252631857 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252632558 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252632566 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg i have internet! :o < 1252632623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg. < 1252633440 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone's got the internet < 1252633453 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. < 1252633511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's augur! < 1252633519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1252634007 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur! < 1252634011 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make love to me! < 1252634012 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_! < 1252634013 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1252634015 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252634835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1252634905 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic lovestory < 1252634918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1252635914 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252635920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi sir gay, oh < 1252635937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1252635965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not used to random insults from ehird. Insults, yes, but usually related to me doing or asking something dumb < 1252635979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at pronunciation puns < 1252635985 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-138.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252635996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a punsult < 1252636024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Punsult. Really now. You have sunken to a new low. :P < 1252636029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sunk, maybe. < 1252636310 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1252636765 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252637896 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a horrible singing voice < 1252637912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't try to sound androgenous, that might help < 1252638004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, my screaming probably isn't helping. I'll omit it < 1252638173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, vixy, YouTube is not, in fact, down < 1252638286 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252638286 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252638286 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252638325 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252638325 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252638325 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252638874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1252639351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[02:58] I have a horrible singing voice < 1252639353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[02:58] Maybe I shouldn't try to sound androgenous, that might help < 1252639355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[03:00] Also, my screaming probably isn't helping. I'll omit it < 1252639356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l o l w u t < 1252639378 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252639400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252639427 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to hear my horrible singing voice? < 1252639439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT IF IT INVOLVED SCREAMING AT ANY POINT IN THE PROCESS. < 1252639460 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your screaming at my singing, or my singing? I don't scream in this < 1252639501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only because you omitted it. I AM NOT A FAN OF THINGS WITH SCREAMING EVEN IF THE ACTUAL SCREAMING HAS BEEN OMITTED. < 1252639555 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The screaming was artificially added. If you can tolerate Paint it Black, you can tolerate this, unless you can't tolerate bad singers < 1252639627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS EVEN WORSE. < 1252639637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even want to know what you were doing or what your goal is but I cam convinced that it is almost certainly the work of a particularly insane Satan and want no part in it. ESPECIALLY IF YOU OMITTED SCREAMING AND THEN ADDED IT ARTIFICIALLY. < 1252639652 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other way around < 1252639655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*am convinced < 1252639797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you removed the artificial screaming and added real ones? < 1252639804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY MUST YOU CONTINUALLY MAKE IT WORSE AND WORSE < 1252639840 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The screaming wasn't a part of the song that this was based on. The new lyrics calls for anguished cries. I did that, but then cut that part out when I tried recording it again < 1252639858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS SOUNDS INCOMPREHENSIBLY AWFUL < 1252639863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTHULHU HAS NOTHING ON THIS < 1252639972 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252642517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class frok < 1252642519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1252642520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Cygwin, fork.cc < 1252642620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin's fork does the obvious, which is "create new process of me, munge a setjmp thingy into it, make it longjmp to here". < 1252642853 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252642995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252643874 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252644005 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252651666 0 :PatashuBangaa!n=Patashu@c122-106-162-185.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1252651775 0 :PatashuBangaa!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Patashu < 1252652969 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252653335 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252653919 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252655041 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252655261 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252655999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252656000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252656035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Punsult. Really now. You have sunken to a new low. :P < 1252656049 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252656060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok, he just needs some coaching by a professional punsultant. < 1252656333 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd laugh, but I'm 3/4ths asleep < 1252656361 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night < 1252656752 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252657657 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252658286 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-wiutzqqpccptklyw JOIN :#esoteric < 1252658381 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252658708 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252659989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252659996 0 :ehird!i=5b696218@gateway/web/freenode/x-qryibwjrkgtyyyxh JOIN :#esoteric < 1252660004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 is... upsettingly good... < 1252660055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually upset that it's good, that wasn't an exaggeration. < 1252660118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I can't get audio to work. Otherwise I might die of ... upsettedness. < 1252660132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH IS TOTALLY A REAL CONDITION < 1252660225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252660373 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252660764 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-84-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252661885 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252662119 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1252662457 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252663228 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252670188 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252671161 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252673214 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-ihqfhapgecwnvggd JOIN :#esoteric < 1252673480 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252675154 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252677842 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-88-40.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252678137 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252678448 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252679267 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252679338 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-nrtvplaciahzljgv JOIN :#esoteric < 1252679449 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252679816 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252679875 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252680170 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252683166 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252683661 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1252683918 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252686214 0 :MigoMipo!n=john@84-217-12-110.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252687460 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1252688189 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252688381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION discovers the mezzacotta ads now have links < 1252688419 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252688492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a couple of them anyhow < 1252690039 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252691112 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252691483 0 :DADDYc_OOL!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-120-167.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252691516 0 :DADDYc_OOL!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1252694084 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-171.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252694982 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252695004 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252696104 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252696890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252696974 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252698103 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252698106 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1252698161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lo < 1252698317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Medium. < 1252698422 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252698867 0 :atrapado!n=roper@50.56.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252698915 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any "design by comittee" esolangs. Preferably comitee with 8 or >20 members... :-) < 1252698953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magenta < 1252698957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of ABCDEF < 1252698970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we never finished that one < 1252699028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if funge98 qualifies < 1252699048 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252699060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is such a thing as good design by commitee. < 1252699076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: Haskell) < 1252699134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is only an honorary esolang though < 1252699135 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I said that preferably 8 or >20 members... < 1252699142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge98 should qualify < 1252699158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe not quite >20 :-P < 1252699215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I didn't cite it as an example of esolang design by comittee. < 1252699243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. < 1252699264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1252699279 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-86-171.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252699307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amused by how three different people used the word "committee" but none spelled it correctly < 1252699322 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And each spelled it differently < 1252699345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I spelt it differently each time I used it, too. < 1252699374 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, I read your latter statement as being by oerjan < 1252699375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks and notes he didn't actually use the word < 1252699467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it wasn't that amusing then < 1252699491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it was only two people after all < 1252699569 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Are there trinary 2-operand universal logic operators (like binary has NAND and NOR)? < 1252699643 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't NAND and NOR also work with 3-operands? < 1252699650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said 2-operandd < 1252699655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's BUT < 1252699657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for trinary, not binary numbers < 1252699711 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the definition of BUT? < 1252699722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: look at ais523's C-INTERCAL docs < 1252699850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if malbolge's crazy operation is universal < 1252699867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Design by commitee" means an anarchistic system where each version-control commit has completely independent ideas about design. < 1252699922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice try, but that is hardly right - that's open-source < 1252699943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :design by committee is like that, except commits have to be voted in < 1252700001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :012/012: 100 102 221 < 1252700010 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANS'94 Forth was designed by Committee and it concentrated on all the wrong things. < 1252700214 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1252700342 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you cannot get 2 without starting with it < 1252700423 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252700448 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-element permutation group has no generators. It has 1 element of order 1, 3 elements of order 2 and 2 elements of order 3. < 1252700502 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252700513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that supposed to be relevant to the operand question? < 1252700523 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, there is no 1-input operand which is universal for 1-input trinary expressions (binary has NOT). < 1252700541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252700589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no NOT isn't < 1252700591 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Is maximum together with universal 1-input manipulation universal in trinary logic... < 1252700601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are forgetting the constant functions < 1252700722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can construct if-then-else with it < 1252700814 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... INV(MAX(INV(A), INV(B)) = MIN(A, B). < 1252700850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x=const then y else z is max(min(y, if x=const then 2 else 0), min(z, if x=const then 0 else 2)) < 1252700855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1252700870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the inner if's are just 1-input functions) < 1252700961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and given if-then-else you can branch arbitrarily on the value of a variable < 1252701052 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with minimum, one needs only to be able to construct arbitiary logic function with one nonzero. And such can be constructed by manipulating inputs to be of wanted value only at that point (zero elsewhere), passing through MAX. < 1252701083 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, universal 1-input manipulation and MAX is universal set. < 1252701084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought that was what he just did < 1252701127 0 :ehird!i=5b696218@gateway/web/freenode/x-fovpacjugoyaisda JOIN :#esoteric < 1252701136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:41:46 Hi :-) < 1252701152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a dream involving you, also other #esotericers but they were just j random #esotericer < 1252701177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm an anagram of j random. almost. < 1252701199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost anagrams are the best type of anagram < 1252701234 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252701237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the worst < 1252701241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should try mIRC + one of those things that retheme the IRC window text < 1252701246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they can make it behave more normally < 1252701251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., not fucked up copy/paste behaviour < 1252701262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like with puns, worst = best < 1252701304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, windows 7 really is quite wonderful. < 1252701316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have a fever < 1252701318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252701362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:07 "Design by commitee" means an anarchistic system where each version-control commit has completely independent ideas about design. < 1252701363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a small nanobot infestation in your brain. resistance is futile. < 1252701364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:12:02 nice try, but that is hardly right - that's open-source < 1252701365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ < 1252701391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best open software is either made by an individual or three, or a tightly-focused group with the same goals < 1252701426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux is an edge-case, it's basically the latter (everyone with commit access), just they steal all their commits < 1252701435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, linux has so many modules that it's basically a bunch of seperate software < 1252701448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*separate < 1252701555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder why Windows 7 still makes the default user an administrator... < 1252701556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's irritating < 1252701561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess UAC mitigates it < 1252701735 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: was I in your dream? < 1252701865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't remember seeing any people per se, but metaphysically, i think so < 1252701871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as if it made any sense or anything < 1252701965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, IE 8 expands tabs in the taskbar switcher thing as if they were windows ... i miss that in chrome < 1252702492 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-171.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252702680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is proved that for the Dual-Pivot Quicksort the average number of comparisons is 2*n*ln(n), the average number of swaps is 0.8*n*ln(n), whereas classical Quicksort algorithm has 2*n*ln(n) and 1*n*ln(n) respectively. < 1252702683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.openjdk.core-libs.devel/2628 < 1252703169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252703180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could make some changes to cygwin's fork.cc to port it to MinGW < 1252703195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if MinGW implements the bits of POSIX that matters apart from fork()? like, does it do mmap()? < 1252703272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MinGW isn't a POSIX platform, it's essentially just GCC for Windows < 1252703332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah, so it just uses the libc stuff that windows has? < 1252703338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252703345 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning that it doesn't support C99, for instance. < 1252703346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure that includes a good portion of POSIX though, no? < 1252703357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some part of it, I guess. < 1252703361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap(), no. < 1252703364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'aww. < 1252703409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice to have a cygwin-like thing without all the underlying baggage... < 1252703444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what baggage? < 1252703476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that it has its own process table. The fact that it has its own filesystem layer. I could go on. < 1252703511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just build an app against the cygwin headers and use that without the baggage < 1252703533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, what? That won't actually, you know, link. < 1252703544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the functions use those elements of baggage, see. < 1252703551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't call them if you don't want the bagage. < 1252703571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well sure, the baggage is there, but you can't see it unless you know to look < 1252703602 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you need to link it to the cygwin stuff as well < 1252703606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations, your solution to the baggage, which adds dependencies, is unneeded, hinders nativeness and slows down the Cygwin system (it's dog slow) is... don't look at it! < 1252703609 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't implement fork() in only a .h :-P < 1252703618 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess you could but anyway < 1252703632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can implement fork() without your own process table, filesystem layer, ... < 1252703680 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is that sure, it'd be nice to have a system without it, but I don't think it's that bad < 1252703683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's 9/11 < 1252703688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd explain why reddit is all, you know < 1252703688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9/11 < 1252703689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() is dog slow on Windows by default < 1252703704 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Windows even support it natively? < 1252703708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but you can implement it < 1252703709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, and that is why. < 1252703724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin's fork() isn't copy-on-write; I don't think that's neccessary. < 1252703743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might help for speed < 1252703753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not much < 1252703753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I don't think it's neccessary to have no copy on write on Windows < 1252703763 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1252703764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's definitely important for speed < 1252703769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() being expensive kills unix < 1252703773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's important < 1252703778 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it probably wouldn't help much < 1252703792 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spawning processes on Windows is expensive whether you do some fork() stuff on top or not < 1252703795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could do fork() with a thread and some asm hackery. < 1252703803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheapening the fork() stuff won't help much, probably < 1252703809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it will < 1252703818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin gets disturbingly slow on long shell scripts < 1252703820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fork() is so shit < 1252703826 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because Windows is shit < 1252703830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spawning processes takes time < 1252703837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1252703863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone make an LD_PRELOAD type thingy that replaces the process spawning stuff with something fast :-P < 1252703883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If currently we have 0.1s to spawn a process + 0.1s to copy the memory image of another, turning the latter into 0.01s means it's still dog slow < 1252703921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank god it isn't 0.1s :P < 1252703930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels like it is < 1252703931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I hope not at least < 1252703954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The final AACS License agreements also include provisions to phase out the use of analog output in Blu-ray players. It says that all Blu-ray players manufactured after December 31, 2010 must limit the analog output to SD resolution. After December 31, 2013, no device that can decrypt AACS content can have any analog outputs. The intent of this is to limit casual piracy and has no effect on how you author your Blu-ray discs. < 1252703973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blu-ray sure is doing well innit < 1252704199 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless by analog they mean "can be seen by humans and cameras", I don't quite understand the point < 1252704377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the digital output has DRM. < 1252704385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using a camcorder results in very bad quality < 1252704702 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1252705023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that thinkpad was a T46p. < 1252705027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1252705036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 hours? < 1252705044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive. Well, I don't need to worry about battery. < 1252705050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You could check out Interix. < 1252705057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on a p. < 1252705059 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252705061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's discrete graphics. < 1252705061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and it was 12 cell < 1252705069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1252705069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does the p stand for < 1252705074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discrete graphics < 1252705075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-integrated < 1252705077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't anyone just make their own Blu-Ray player that doesn't have those restrictions? < 1252705078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252705080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok < 1252705082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's illegal. < 1252705089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you'd have to reverse-engineer the DRM < 1252705090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that guy owned three thinkpads XD < 1252705097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he had another with him today < 1252705097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read: yes, they can. < 1252705110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: for a limited period of time. unless you're in china < 1252705115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wonder why. < 1252705123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T43p not portable enough for using all the time? < 1252705132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess that 12-cell weighs a lot, or the UltraBay battery. < 1252705133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal things can be done. < 1252705142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh yeah his forth computer was a netbook < 1252705145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not be wise, but they're no less possible than legal things. < 1252705149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so three notebooks and one netbook < 1252705157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and a tower at home < 1252705166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A netbook is stupid if you already have a notebook with a long battery life. < 1252705178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it is a lot less heavy < 1252705183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1252705189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lightweight notebook, then. < 1252705197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UltraBay battery seems to be 235g. < 1252705201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a netbook will probably get more battery time < 1252705209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs over 14 hours? < 1252705216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and is there a T46p too? < 1252705220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1252705222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a p for every T. < 1252705232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the one he had today was 46 but not completely sure < 1252705236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, every recent one. < 1252705248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Er, you said T46p before < 1252705252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252705255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1252705262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry, he had a T42 today < 1252705263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no T46 < 1252705272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T60 or T43? < 1252705280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, T43 then I guess < 1252705286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T43p < 1252705287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bad at remembering numbers < 1252705291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T42 < 1252705296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looks like it < 1252705319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and that is the one he had today < 1252705327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which? The T42? < 1252705335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... T43p was the long battery one, the T42 the one he had today < 1252705339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything clear now? < 1252705348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1252705363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I guess I should try and get a Core 2 T60p, stick an UltraBay battery and an SSD in there, and upgrade the RAM to the max. < 1252705377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the T60p looks quite thick: compare: < 1252705389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/1/1c/ThinkpadT43P.JPG < 1252705392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/8/8e/ThinkPadT60.jpg < 1252705394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably just perspective, but eh. < 1252705399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it has the IBM logo on it. < 1252705407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, what is that thing sticking out the side?) < 1252705421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was going to ask you that < 1252705446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/3331-1.jpg It's not in this photo. < 1252705456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/8/8e/ThinkPadT60.jpg <-- very blue compared to the neutral grey in http://www.thinkwiki.org/images/1/1c/ThinkpadT43P.JPG < 1252705459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect bad photo < 1252705462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it looks very nice in that photo, although a bit high dpi. I don't think I can read that text.) < 1252705472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a Lenovo-supplied photo, but true. < 1252705488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 14" T60p is only available in 1400x1050 in the 14" version, it seems. < 1252705509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extra pixels are nice, but using Windows would be a bitch; it hates everything above 96dpi. < 1252705512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nice resolution < 1252705513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, programs break if you set it higher. < 1252705523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought you WANTED high dpi? < 1252705535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, I do, for Linux, where it'll work swimmingly. < 1252705545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't get both in one laptop < 1252705550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But look at the icons on http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/3331-1.jpg < 1252705556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you read their tet? < 1252705557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*text < 1252705575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to tell from the photo size. How large is the screen? < 1252705581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The top one says "Recycle Bin" < 1252705585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get any sort of perspective < 1252705586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD < 1252705595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14" diagonal 4:2 < 1252705597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*4:3 < 1252705601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe 14.1". < 1252705608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't see why not, if I'm sitting in front of it < 1252705614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to a down scaled photo of it < 1252705623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the text is like a mm on screen. < 1252705625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, the T60p is heavy: 2.65kg. < 1252705625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the one below ways Internet Explorer < 1252705631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that graphics card weighs, huh. < 1252705656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one after that is "My Network Places" < 1252705667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately *old* integrated graphics is useless for anything. < 1252705673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't really go for a non-p model. < 1252705706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway 12 cell battery + battery in ultrabay will last a bit for light work. Consider that during idle I can get my R500 down to ~8.5W, (12-13 W if connected to busy wlan, like at uni) < 1252705726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd likely go for a 6-cell + ultrabay. < 1252705737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is 6 cell the standard? < 1252705737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 cell might get, like, 4 hours less than a 12-cell, AT THE VERY WORST < 1252705742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, that is what I have. < 1252705746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll get, like, 10 hours < 1252705752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a default 6-cell on an R60 and it lasts for 2 hours at best < 1252705754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it lifts the back up a bit but doesn't poke out < 1252705759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thus the UltraBay battery < 1252705768 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252705776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 235g of battery in the shape of a CD drive. < 1252705784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives me a bit more than 3.2 hours it seems. But I haven't really tried with a light load all the time, rather very busy, then completely idle (or even suspended) and so on < 1252705785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you lack a CD drive. < 1252705801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, loading system fully got it up at 27 W btw < 1252705802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't use CDs apart from to install old stuff I have and boot. < 1252705810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case I can pop out the battery and pop in the CD drive. < 1252705818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1252705821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was number crunching + heavy disk activity though < 1252705832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and high load on the gbit ethernet < 1252705833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I was originally considering the X200; it has no CD drive at all. < 1252705850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I won't get your magically low power usage due to the components being older < 1252705858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, install over network then? < 1252705866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that in response to < 1252705878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: I was originally considering the X200; it has no CD drive at all. < 1252705894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That Ultrabay battery would buy you what, an hour? < 1252705917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 14 hours with 12-cell + Ultrabay for the person at AnMaster's uni with a T43p < 1252705933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, most of that being the 12-cell :-) < 1252705933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 6-cell + Ultrabay should get about 10 hours < 1252705940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, no < 1252705954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly 3.5 hours from ultrabay < 1252705959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 9.5 from 12 cell < 1252705963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16834995034&ATT=34-995-034&CMP=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Notebook+Batteries+/+AC+Adapters-_-Lenovo-_-34995034 says "a bit over an hour" and "about 1-1.5 hours" < 1252705978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Did they specify the model and workload? < 1252705983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what ultrabay model is that < 1252705986 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T60p and T60 respectively < 1252705993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Click the link? < 1252705994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there has been a shitload of them < 1252705999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, halving AnMaster's number let's say 4.75 hours from the 6-cell < 1252706016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd get roughly 8.25 hours, assuming same power usage as T43p. < 1252706019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he did say he recently replaced batteries due to them being worn out. < 1252706023 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other guy said 1.5 hours with max power savings on a T60 < 1252706025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in August < 1252706026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably less, because of newer components, except more, because dual-core. < 1252706041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm going to get an ultrabay one myself :) < 1252706065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, was he running linux? because dynticks + HPET helps a lot. < 1252706081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it < 1252706082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that saves 3-4 W alone for me < 1252706107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway, the X200 which is a full Core 2 Duo, 12" widescreen, 4GB RAM kind of machine, except no CD drive, gets 10 hours on the 9-cell < 1252706108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I tested back under arch with custom kernel with/without dynticks) < 1252706109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alone < 1252706109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and < 1252706113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no ultrabay battery < 1252706115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, more like 9 hours < 1252706116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still < 1252706134 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Xfoo series are kinda power-optimized AFAIK < 1252706147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ubuntu uses more power than arch, seems to be due to more processes in background < 1252706179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But still full-power < 1252706180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and turning off wlan saves several watts < 1252706218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and newer systems have SATA power link management < 1252706223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Just saying that a T60 might get less than half of that < 1252706224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but T42p won't < 1252706253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nor T43p) < 1252706262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: If this dude gets 14 hours on a T43p with 12-cell + UltraBay, I'm pretty sure I can get 8-9 on a T60p with a 6-cell + UltraBay < 1252706274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's possible Mr. Dude is lying < 1252706278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or guessing < 1252706295 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about the differences T43p - T60p < 1252706298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he was using linux and I did notice he was using low screen brightness setting < 1252706309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I expect that's with minimal settings < 1252706315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't look like ubuntu either < 1252706323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmm, that last bit is lame < 1252706324 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I daresay that a 6-cell + UltraBay will get no more than half of 14 hours < 1252706335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 hours is fine < 1252706343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 hours is pushing it severely < 1252706351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, bleh. < 1252706351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's on a T43p, remember. < 1252706351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure what distro, but the gnome menu wasn't branded with any distro logo < 1252706359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd get the X200, but that screen is so small. < 1252706374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, and the T60p, while dual-core, has more power-efficient components < 1252706379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's Core 2, not Pentium M < 1252706396 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were to get one of those out-sticking 12-cell batteries I'd get maybe 5 hours on my R60 < 1252706408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use mine on less than max brightness indoors too. Because it is too bright otherwise. One notch below max for me, but his was more like mid-setting < 1252706439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, you could get ultra low voltage Xeons in the past < 1252706450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err Xenon? < 1252706451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1252706454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xeon < 1252706460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah < 1252706466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they like for servers? < 1252706468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I always use my display at 100% brightness unless it's late and my eyes are hurting < 1252706478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't think my display is bright enough; whites are quite gray < 1252706487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on battery I use it at 75% for power saving, works fine indoors < 1252706493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Sossaman was a low-/ultra-low-power and double-processor capable CPU (like AMD Quad FX), based on the "Yonah" processor, for ultradense non-consumer environment (i.e. targeted at the blade-server and embedded markets), and it was rated at a thermal design power (TDP) of 31 W (LV: 1.66 GHz and 2 GHz ) and 15 W (ULV: 1.66 GHz)[2]." < 1252706510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Lenovo made the X200 in a 4:3 14" version < 1252706513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also most displays look fine unless standing beside a superior display :P < 1252706513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be on it like something I'd be on < 1252706519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not IMO < 1252706531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get annoyed using the old 19" LCD in this house, for instance < 1252706541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said *most* < 1252706541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because dark gray is basically white on it < 1252706548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can get bad enough < 1252706550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is pretty normal < 1252706552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it is easy to notice always < 1252706562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cost like 150 pounds in 2006 < 1252706566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh right, forgot you didn't use upper-segment monitors :P < 1252706582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1252706583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$250 is a lot for a 19" today, at least < 1252706585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mac does < 1252706593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc $250 in SEK < 1252706594 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. http://images.google.com/images?q=%24250+in+SEK&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi < 1252706597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252706599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdu < 1252706600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* 250 $ < 1252706604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 250 $ in SEK < 1252706605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 250 USD in SEK < 1252706606 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250 US$ = 1 750.43061 Swedish kronor < 1252706607 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250 U.S. dollars = 1 750.43061 Swedish kronor < 1252706613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 150 pounds in SEK < 1252706614 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :150 British pounds = 1 753.19629 Swedish kronor < 1252706618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 SEK out! :P < 1252706626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And that error rating was .1 SEK out) < 1252706629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((etc)) < 1252706644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a pound ~ a USD atm? < 1252706645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252706655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1252706656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread < 1252706663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, no :P < 1252706669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dollar ~= pound * 1.6 < 1252706684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually, closer to 1.5 < 1252706685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1252706686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.7 < 1252706695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder if C has ~= ... < 1252706701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252706703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 1 GBP in USD < 1252706703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it wouldn't make sense < 1252706704 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 British pound = 1.6693 U.S. dollars < 1252706704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1252706706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~~ < 1252706706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would < 1252706710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo~~; < 1252706712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice < 1252706719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C needs unary equal thingies < 1252706723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~= foo; < 1252706727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or that < 1252706730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mainly: < 1252706731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!= foo; < 1252706736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is REALLY USEFUL, HEY? < 1252706738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1252706743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = !foo; looks so stupid < 1252706745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do < 1252706749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo ^= true < 1252706753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define TOGGLE(x) x = !x < 1252706755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that looks stupid < 1252706759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE YOU SHOUT < 1252706762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Lame < 1252706766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, true: not define < 1252706766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1252706770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define toggle(x) (x) = (!x) < 1252706773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1252706780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may break if it evaluates x twice < 1252706782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo ^= 1 for you non-C99ers < 1252706803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define toggle(x) ((x) = (!(x))) < 1252706809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need bitwise self-not < 1252706810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1252706813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo~~ < 1252706816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, i t's an lvalue < 1252706818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1252706822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for: foo = ~foo; < 1252706823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evaluating it twice does fuck all < 1252706827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you do foo()->x < 1252706829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means you're a retard < 1252706834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you throw the result away < 1252706837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so achieve nothing < 1252706841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um < 1252706841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless foo() adds it to some global list < 1252706846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case YOUR PROGRAM FUCKING SUCKS < 1252706853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if foo()->x is memory mapped < 1252706863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your program is shit like a dungheap of shitness < 1252706880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean, memory mapped to a device output register < 1252706884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any time you do {foo()->x = y;} you've got some black magic that you won't be able to reason about later < 1252706903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generalizations yay < 1252706909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do {foo()->x = y;} while(true); < 1252706917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of like "Killing kittens means you're bad" < 1252707001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if that is the least painful way? You know, death help to kittens < 1252707006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what posting a link to some loot on thepiratebay on a popular reddit post will result in < 1252707019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably fire, brimstone and the magical disappearing post and subreddit ban < 1252707024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NEVAR < 1252707025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to some fatal disease < 1252707035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are still cute, QED < 1252707063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct M { int x; }; struct S { struct M m; }; struct M *foo(struct S *s) { return &s->m; } ... foo(s)->x = 1; /* not very black */ < 1252707091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you prefer to see it wither away for days in painful spasms? < 1252707098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't that worse? < 1252707104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it looks amusing, definitely! < 1252707113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN HAS INTERPREATIVE DANCE < 1252707118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*INTERPRETIVE < 1252707138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the eyes get all runny at the end. < 1252707139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But that doesn't change every tiem you call foo() < 1252707156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: KITTY IZ SAD BECUZ CANT HAZ CHEEZBURGR < 1252707161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*time, also < 1252707190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if it had been a pony instead of a kitten? < 1252707200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You didn't specify it had to < 1252707202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ponies are disposable! There is an infinite supply of them < 1252707220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True, I was referring to in the context of #define TOGGLE(x) ((x) = !(x)) breaking. < 1252707254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOGGLE(x++) < 1252707260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :D < 1252707272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh even better < 1252707283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOGGLE(*(++x)) < 1252707285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING INCOMPREHENSIBLY WRONG < 1252707303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is even well defined < 1252707313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case < 1252707325 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOGGLE(*x++) would be perfectly fine if it evaluated only once < 1252707327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it is quite comprehensible < 1252707337 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOGGLE(x++) less so < 1252707340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is so bad :P < 1252707360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x++ is quite usual in C if you're dealing with strings or the like. < 1252707397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gues < 1252707398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1252707419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, when is it "ok" to use something like: *((float*)((void*)&myintarray)) + 4*i < 1252707435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1252707436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never? < 1252707463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there is one case, when you are dealing with SIMD intrinsics, thus being restricted to a specific compiler anyway < 1252707465 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always? < 1252707483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You don't need the (void*), do you?) < 1252707494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9jo27/i_work_for_microsoft_as_a_developer_and_worked_on/c0d1d5u?context=3 <- This is the first time I've ever felt bad for piracy XD < 1252707501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you need the void* to shut up gcc shouting about aliasing rules < 1252707522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what does it say? < 1252707554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't GCC provide specific types for the SIMD intrinsics to use? < 1252707579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes, but I didn't remember the exact name. And that name differs from icc and gcc anyway < 1252707596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like __mm_128_f or whatever in icc I think < 1252707603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and v4sf in gcc? < 1252707605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it sucks balls, C *does* allow for metaprogramming... < 1252707613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should remove that link :-P < 1252707616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what do you mean? < 1252707622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep < 1252707623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a C preprocessor. < 1252707628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are allowed to use it. < 1252707650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Errormessage plz < 1252707650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does "AIO Activated" mean? < 1252707651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But I shouldn't cave my economic principles to some Microsoft lackey putting three symbols together! :( < 1252707660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All-in-One; it has both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions installable < 1252707664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Activated means, you know, you don't need a key. < 1252707665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you fail < 1252707666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at counting < 1252707667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it does suck, it sucks quite a bit less than some of the alternatives in C. < 1252707680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :":-(" < 1252707682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: 1 < 1252707682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- 2 < 1252707683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( 3 < 1252707690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\n 4 < 1252707690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you do < 1252707693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh I thought you were providing an example after < 1252707694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I see no \n < 1252707696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"three symbols together! :(" < 1252707704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where ":(" was the example < 1252707704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What? < 1252707710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252707717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you were including it to illustrate the point < 1252707722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I wasn't. < 1252707723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought < 1252707727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's the ctrl+enter / click for "submit" < 1252707734 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Errormessage plz < 1252707743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Clicking isn't a symbol < 1252707750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, the comment doesn't include it < 1252707755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also had to click "reply" < 1252707758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh don't remember exact warning message < 1252707765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the comment is what is making me :( and it is three symbols < 1252707772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, something like "blah blah breaks strict aliasing rules" < 1252707779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will only happen at -O2 and above < 1252707787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because gcc doesn't check aliasing below that < 1252707798 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's what I was missing. < 1252707803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it only uses these rules to optimise harder at -O2 and above < 1252707805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules < 1252707811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1252707826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is a variant with "may" instead of "will" < 1252707832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it isn't sure < 1252707834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here it is < 1252707850 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252707872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But isn't doing (void*) just inviting it to break instead of erroring < 1252707876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do some C black magic. < 1252707878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, if you are absolutely sure about what you are doing it is ok < 1252707881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't you be disabling the optimization in question or something < 1252707882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot about the language I don't know. < 1252707908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in this specific case it isn't dangerous because the thing I casted is a const pattern < 1252707913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it won't change < 1252707913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252707925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh nice quit message < 1252707941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With const it should probably work, yes. < 1252707976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb shower < 1252708003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"night" almost an hour ago and now shower? O_o < 1252708013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, real night from me anyways -> < 1252708113 0 :ehird!i=5b696218@gateway/web/freenode/x-vypxpzhphtryhuhv JOIN :#esoteric < 1252708120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: lol@that a-patch thing to remove the ads from WLM < 1252708125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you mentioned < 1252708138 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Islam is the light! < 1252708145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some arabic in the top-left hand corner of the site and every. single. news post starts with "Praise be to God." < 1252708147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :D < 1252708175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now you can remove the advertisements and open more than one Messenger at a time (polygamy)" < 1252708180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DID NOT HAVE TO CALL THAT POLYGAMY < 1252708342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy fucking shit, the default chat window is bloated < 1252708345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hugest avatars ever < 1252708500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's the worst chat client, ever < 1252708514 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252708515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uninstalling without hesitation < 1252708835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: this guy's forums are gold! < 1252708844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[“Or [they are] like darkness within an unfathomable sea which is covered by waves, upon which are waves, over which are clouds, darkness…”]] < 1252708846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This description was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like.]] < 1252708867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sea has lots of waves. Also, there is a sky above and it is dark. There are clouds in it. < 1252708874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, this man has seen the sea. < 1252708988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're all dirty chatzilla users, you windowsers < 1252708994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the mircers. < 1252709000 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I don't run it in firefox. < 1252709008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's a significant number of windowsers that use irssi < 1252709009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason < 1252709017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: well yes, that's more insane < 1252709022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be like a friend of mine < 1252709026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1252709029 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who keeps his desktop as a VNC < 1252709049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has his irssi on an SSH session on remote desktop that's actually on another computer :/ < 1252709052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: NOT < 1252709052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNNY < 1252709053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252709061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: cease being his friend. he is crazy. < 1252709063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a bad way < 1252709064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252709078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: lets him work from home, so I think he's quite sane < 1252709108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do have my irssi on an ssh session < 1252709121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(via putty) < 1252709175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, basically all windowsers do < 1252709177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you need cygwin < 1252709189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there is a windows installer < 1252709190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1252709194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh seems to be the most popular method < 1252709195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with putty < 1252709349 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252709948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, is it just me or is Foxit Reader kind of crap? < 1252709951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe older versions are better. < 1252710128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads Foxit v2 < 1252710134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it has a netscape plugin that Chrome can use. < 1252710197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "night" almost an hour ago and now shower? O_o <-- time traveling sure is annoying indeed. < 1252710217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish you would stop saying night < 1252710258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foxit 2 looks exactly the same as 3.1, except it doesn't try and install the "Foxit toolbar", which is an improvement. The installer still uses faux Windows XP widgets and the app itself still has iffy-looking widgets - especially the menus. < 1252710271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't there a *Windows-native* lightweight PDF reader with a Netscape-style plugin? < 1252710282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is foxit? < 1252710288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A PDF reader. < 1252710300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, acrobat reader 3.0? < 1252710306 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how difficult it would be to add a NPAPI plugin to sumatra. < 1252710313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't 3.0 like super-ancient < 1252710318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it'll work very well < 1252710320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with new PDFs < 1252710325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, enough to be lightweight! < 1252710325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I dismissed Sumatra because of that < 1252710327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks really good < 1252710329 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Sumatra is pretty much the most lightweight one you'll find. < 1252710330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a perfectly accurate time designation! < 1252710334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try it out < 1252710343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sumatra the island? < 1252710346 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It renders slowly, though. That's my only other gripe. < 1252710351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/index.html < 1252710356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: What sort of machine? < 1252710356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with kpdf? < 1252710360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Windows. < 1252710363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're being intentionally obtuse. < 1252710366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, KDE runs on cygwin < 1252710377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least parts to < 1252710378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and so does stabbing my eyes out with a fork. < 1252710380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do* < 1252710387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep, fork() is there < 1252710388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1252710391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want something that uses Windows, not X11 with Qt, you know? < 1252710394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implementation is pretty eye-stabbing < 1252710401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read fork(), yes. < 1252710404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sane enough. < 1252710406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs more COW. < 1252710422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish more stuff would be 64-bit < 1252710453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, again... I can only recommend linu < 1252710455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux* < 1252710471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything except zsnes is 64-bit on this system < 1252710486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also shut up < 1252710505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was "wish", not "this is absolutely vital". < 1252710507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I see no good reason to do so < 1252710525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well if you want to be a dick, sure, there's no reason to < 1252710628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: What machine is Sumatra slow on? < 1252710644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see it loading, sure, but it takes like <0.1s < 1252710700 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not slow to load, but when scrolling through a document the pages show up as "rendering page..." for quite a while sometimes < 1252710718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid@dragon /sys/devices/platform/smapi/BAT0 $ cat manufacture_date < 1252710718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-07-13 < 1252710718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arvid@dragon /sys/devices/platform/smapi/BAT0 $ cat first_use_date < 1252710718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-07-25 < 1252710719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252710734 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a Q9450 with 4GB of RAM.) < 1252710736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... interesting < 1252710761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: hrm < 1252710782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like how Sumatra can't resize the window to fit the page width automatically < 1252710793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write a decent PDF reader. < 1252710818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I want li-poly battery for thinkpad. that would be cool < 1252710819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be one of those fields that attracts custom interfaces, bloat and sucking. < 1252710832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I want a flat battery for ThinkPads, like Apple has. < 1252710841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 hours on a small, non-poking-out-or-raising battery? Fuck yeah! < 1252710846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly patented, though. < 1252710849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're really tooting that horn. < 1252710850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raising? < 1252710854 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252710861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The 6-cell battery, e.g., raises the back of the ThinkPad up. < 1252710867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to the 4-cell, which keeps it flat. < 1252710873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1252710877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the 9 cell ones raises too? < 1252710879 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it seems to be rendering very quickly now that I try it again, maybe it was specific to some of the PDFs I tried. < 1252710882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pokes out. < 1252710890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, mine is flat < 1252710896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. You think it is. < 1252710901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually raised slightly at the back. < 1252710904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the point is, the Apple binaries are regular-sized and lightweight, and the smallest one, in a 13" notebook just over 2kg, gets 7 hours. < 1252710913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I took the battery out recently and noticed no difference < 1252710914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The 17" one, which is just shy of 3kg, gets 8.) < 1252710978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the things that make the thinkpad stand up from the surface in any case (the rubber thingies) are higher, just looked under it... < 1252710979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There must be a good library for rendering PDFs, and I guess the Netscape plugin API is quite simple, so the only problem I'll have will be, oh god, the Windows GUI API thingy. < 1252710996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's some fancy C# thing that makes it look like Cthulhu with makeup instead of two Cthulhus. < 1252711003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is a good library, poppler iirc < 1252711017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's its typography? Uses the system? < 1252711020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* app-text/poppler < 1252711020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Available versions: 0.8.7 0.10.4 ~0.10.5 0.10.5-r1 {cjk doc jpeg zlib} < 1252711020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Homepage: http://poppler.freedesktop.org/ < 1252711020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Description: PDF rendering library based on the xpdf-3.0 code base < 1252711027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on xpdf, it seems < 1252711034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as I just said < 1252711045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it works good for me < 1252711046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate xpdf for one reason - < 1252711049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These security features let an author disallow printing, copying text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.]] < 1252711053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It respects those batshit fascist features < 1252711056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is possible to turn off < 1252711056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"features" < 1252711060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't care, it's evil < 1252711072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since kpdf uses poppler, and kpdf defaults to not respecting it... < 1252711073 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sumatra uses mupdf, which IIRC looked fairly simple < 1252711087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I *would* like something more instant, though. < 1252711092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/screen1.png ;; xpdf's typography appears to be lacking. < 1252711131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't like how Sumatra can't resize the window to fit the page width automatically Maybe I should write a decent PDF reader. It seems to be one of those fields that attracts custom interfaces, bloat and sucking. <-- sounds like your one would "more bloated" than this sumatra then ;P < 1252711157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's a super old version I thin < 1252711161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think* < 1252711174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, kpdf looks better, and it uses poppler < 1252711203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, then. < 1252711206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that screenshot is from the xpdf site :P < 1252711221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But poppler presumably uses freetype, not Windowswhatevertype. < 1252711241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ccxvii.net/mupdf/ Hey, MuPDF has a Windows viewer and Firefox plugin. < 1252711243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1252711266 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/sumatrapdf/source/browse/trunk/src/SumatraPDF.cpp have fun < 1252711271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 217? < 1252711296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ghostscript logo? hm < 1252711337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Artifex software. < 1252711339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make ghostscript. < 1252711355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, at least. < 1252711386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mupdf.exe has no UI except for keyboard controls to go forward/back, which is unacceptable, it seems. < 1252711399 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's slightly minimalistic :D < 1252711402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The others are command-line tools. < 1252711403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1252711431 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's better than one postscript reader I found, which would only let me go forward and not backward. < 1252711437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: you do windows-type gui programming thingy don't you? < 1252711440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall something along those linse < 1252711442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lines < 1252711454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh iirc xpdf doesn't use freetype. At least xpdf looks worse than kpdf here < 1252711463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc xpdf doesn't use poppler < 1252711463 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though preferably not dealing directly with the windows API. < 1252711513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: poppler is based on xpdf. < 1252711518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: How then? < 1252711524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.NET Windows Forms stuff? < 1252711525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes... *based* on < 1252711531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some differences < 1252711535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252711561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1252711563 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's one way. (It's bad, and lets windows API faults leak in, but it's still preferable) < 1252711571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I doubt poppler has pluggable text rendering. < 1252711580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: What else, then? < 1252711602 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used much else that's good. < 1252711613 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's WTL, which may or may not be good. < 1252711631 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's XUL, which has the problem of XPCOM and gecko and stuff. < 1252711642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XUL is horrifically bad. < 1252711645 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's WPF, which is enterprisey and has really bad font rendering. < 1252711672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso? < 1252711677 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not aware of many more that can give a native feel. < 1252711698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does WPF have bad font rendering? < 1252711741 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It doesn't do antialiasing properly, IMO. You end up with "fuzzy" fonts (more so than normal cleartype, which I find perfectly readable.) < 1252711743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_PostScript <-- cool < 1252711754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you don't know about dps? < 1252711763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. I do *now* < 1252711765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: http://www.devcomponents.com/dotnetbar-wpf/img/WpfDockRibbonPad.png looks like it has no subpixel < 1252711776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it does < 1252711778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't before however < 1252711780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just fuzzy < 1252711789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Cleartype is kind of crap, btw < 1252711798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I've got used to it; maybe 7 improved it. < 1252711847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if any of the PDF libraries can keep the graphics sized-down, but make the text bigger < 1252711858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be nice for reading PDFs without a hueg-liek-xbox window. < 1252711867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hueg-liek-xbox <--? < 1252711872 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, I think it can't use cleartype because it's not drawing aligned to the pixel grid, it's drawing at subpixel locations... < 1252711912 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly cleartype was improved in 7 to support vertical antialiasing as well as horizontal, but I think that's more of a CJK thing. < 1252712349 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252712556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night really < 1252713092 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252713122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huge like xbox. < 1252713185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt vertical thing: yeah, i made this display portrait :-) < 1252713188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second < 1252713200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't rotate it though, and putting it on its side might damage the components < 1252713217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, the font rendering in http://www.devcomponents.com/dotnetbar-wpf/img/WpfDockRibbonPad.png looks better than cleartype to me < 1252713238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll go with Windows Forms, unless Qt is native on Windows these days. < 1252713240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or WTL. < 1252713330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Be Part of Windows History, Host a Windows® 7 Launch Party." < 1252713348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: Explicitly not attending one of these parties increases your attractiveness quotient by 75. < 1252713453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poppler is just PDF, which is a shame. I could do like Preview and automatically convert PostScript and DVI files to PDF beforehand, though. < 1252713463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it could do my scale-up-only-text thing. < 1252713761 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252713765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/09/10/yeah-ok-so-facebook-punkd-us/ ;; from reddit. TechCrunch? Inaccurate? Naive? ZomGNEVar!!!1 < 1252713835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, uninstalling Sumatra doesn't remove its start menu icons < 1252714458 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252714781 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@67.228.37.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252714835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is continually surprised that people actually install drivers that come with a piece of hardware < 1252715101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really hate the windows-tab switcher thing < 1252715111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just different enough from Expose to (a) not be a ripoff, (b) be useless < 1252715235 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1252715310 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252715340 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252715428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, 801.11n is approved < 1252715434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1252715434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kick-ass < 1252715444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: identical to recent drafts? < 1252715449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do we need yet more hardware < 1252715454 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know < 1252715456 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read /. < 1252715459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1252715467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it's close enough to recent drafts < 1252715473 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my new computer has a draft-n chip < 1252715502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: does it really matter though < 1252715503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252715508 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*802.11n < 1252715508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one before that is fast enough < 1252715522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, there's been draft-n hardware since, like, mid 2008 < 1252715524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you should be fine < 1252715535 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: probably not. But as far as drafts go, they usually don't change in the last few steps of standardization < 1252715549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe clarifications, but no major feature changes < 1252715553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252715623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.oldskool.org/pc/8088_Corruption ;; Full-speed video on an original PC < 1252715687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including sound < 1252715690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and full CGA < 1252715812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's it, I'm writing my own PDF reader < 1252716166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"First Sumatra was based on Xpdf (v<0.2), then Poppler as backend but it changed to MuPDF because of better support for the Windows platform." < 1252716171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't be using poppler then < 1252716885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reconsiders his position on Foxit < 1252716887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can hide the ad < 1252716904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the menu, at least, turns normal, although the menus therein don't < 1252717002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still not perfect, so nyah :) < 1252717058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc the latest version is still uber-bloated < 1252717060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can use 2 < 1252717126 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1252717177 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252717268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wtf, foxit uses its own open dialog < 1252717272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252717274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an old one < 1252717276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disqualified! < 1252717298 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's better than Kubuntu alpha < 1252717306 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see OO.org's file dialog < 1252717321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: linux file dialogs are pretty much unrescuable < 1252717323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I filed a bug entitled "KDE FIle dialog utterly broken" - no one has disputed that claim < 1252717332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows' are pretty damn good < 1252717337 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, KDE's is pretty good < 1252717342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, true < 1252717342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the OO.org guys fail < 1252717348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome's kinda sucks, though < 1252717355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes the wrong approach to simplicity entirely < 1252717358 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, whatever one thunderbird is using < 1252717364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mozilla have their own < 1252717367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make it use kde's < 1252717367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type in the filename, halfway through it autocompletes it < 1252717368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a plugin thing < 1252717378 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without even having a dropdown or anything < 1252717415 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, I download a file, need to open with kate. If I type "/usr/bin/kate", I end up with "/usr/sr/bin/in/katete" < 1252717422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252717455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's clearly the program Katate, which is a non-base-system special resource, translated to indian < 1252717509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever designed that should be shot < 1252717521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that applies to most things < 1252717535 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, most of them it's just locked up and left to die < 1252717542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this file dialog is a shooting offence < 1252717566 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, turn on your away flag, head in to #nomirc, and say you're away < 1252717569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think slowly dying of thirst is more horrific than being shot < 1252718305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, WJW @ http://code.google.com/p/sumatrapdf/source/browse/trunk/src/SumatraPDF.cpp < 1252718308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever hearda files? < 1252719103 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for instance, I download a file, need to open with kate. If I type "/usr/bin/kate", I end up with "/usr/sr/bin/in/katete" < 1252719104 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1252719105 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1252719108 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so FEKKING ANNOYING < 1252719124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's make a MOB < 1252719137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LYNCH! LYNCH! LYNCH! < 1252719149 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather just make a sob. < 1252719152 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sobs* < 1252719196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lynch a S.O.B. < 1252719208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDGY < 1252719397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hope there's a better way to make Windowsy GUIy things without using Visual Studio. < 1252719583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the GUI code by hand? < 1252719595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assemble the whole GUI in code? < 1252719600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uh, I said "a better way". < 1252719685 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1252719869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :building GUIs in code isn't as hard as people make it out to be < 1252719877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't hard < 1252719878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just bad < 1252719894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's obfuscatory, it doesn't help you design UIs (you have to design them in your head then write it as code), ... < 1252719917 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252720019 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252720024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252720041 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252720058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252720103 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252720114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1252720433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1252721492 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it" < 1252723098 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252724879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252724880 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252725318 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252725321 0 :Sgeo__!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252726699 0 :ehird!i=5b696218@gateway/web/freenode/x-xuaoqnccbvktoobf JOIN :#esoteric < 1252726703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CMake Error at cmake/modules/CfungeRequireFunction.cmake:35 (message): Your system seems to be missing the function "getaddrinfo" which is required by cfunge. < 1252726707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stumbling block numero uno! < 1252726738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs himself an implementation of getaddrinfo < 1252726918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fucking hell ./configure is slow on cygwin < 1252726927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even slower than ccmake was at the start < 1252726945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing I'm only using this POS to try cmake compilation < 1252726945 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I assume you want to use CFunge while playing your game? < 1252726955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: something like that :) < 1252726971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to irritate AnMaster by providing him a few short patches to make it work perfectly on cygwin < 1252726986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and watch him squirm as he tries to come up with excuses not to commit them! < 1252727014 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that Cygwin is imperfect? < 1252727026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :process spawning on windows is dog slow. no way around that. < 1252727033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But cygwin is fitting a square peg into a round hole badly. < 1252727058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to switch to MinGW+Xming, paired with MSYS. < 1252727075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just MinGW+GnuWin32, but that doesn't include a shell afaik. < 1252727089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I want is the basic unix tools and a nice shell + terminal, that's all. < 1252727610 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252727755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have cfunge configuration page! < 1252727759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tweaks linker options to link with the impl < 1252727831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's compiling! < 1252727838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a shitload of warnings for every file. < 1252727843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including a bunch of visibility ones. < 1252727857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /home/Elliott/cfunge-0.9.0/src/funge-space/funge-space.c:50:4: error: #error "cfunge needs a working mmap(), which this system claims it lacks." < 1252727868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit < 1252727873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin's mmap works < 1252727875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's patch that out < 1252727904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "working" = OMG POSIX DECLARATION YAAAAY < 1252727942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /home/Elliott/cfunge-0.9.0/src/fingerprints/REXP/REXP.c:31:4: error: #error "cfunge needs POSIX regular expressions, which this system claims it doesn't have." < 1252727959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-| < 1252727961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you irritate me. < 1252728031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /home/Elliott/cfunge-0.9.0/src/fingerprints/TURT/TURT.c:223: error: 'M_PI' undeclared (first use in this function) < 1252728036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /home/Elliott/cfunge-0.9.0/src/fingerprints/TURT/TURT.c:228: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function 'round' < 1252728096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yo, M_PI is non-standard. < 1252728136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that compile went very well, only a few linker errors < 1252728157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOCK and SCKE both define ___ntohl and ___ntohs apparently < 1252728161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "static" isn't supported on cygwin < 1252728209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, from getaddrinfo, presumably < 1252728231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe < 1252728274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's from winsock < 1252728317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION replaces _Exit with exit < 1252728321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no, just _exit < 1252728340 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just compile to LLVM :P < 1252728358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh, no, that won't work < 1252728363 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(neat fact: one of the examples LLVM comes with is a brainfuck interpreter) < 1252728364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM doesn't provide posix libraries. < 1252728383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SOCK/SOCK.c.o:SOCK.c:(.text+0x0): multiple definition of `___ntohl' CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0x0): first defined here CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SOCK/SOCK.c.o:SOCK.c:(.text+0x10): multiple definition of `___ntohs' CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0x10): first defined here < 1252728388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as I can fix those, I have a compilation < 1252728413 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same file's getting compiled more than once? < 1252728431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the damn error, it's that some header file defines those twice < 1252728435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a winsock header, obviously < 1252728456 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252728471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally I have no f'n clue how to fix that... < 1252728485 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it inline < 1252728486 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252728488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing windows headers I can probably do #define WINSOCK_DO_NOT_DEFINE_NTOHL < 1252728490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kludgy but it will work < 1252728491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's in a system header file. < 1252728495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252728500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know. winsock. < 1252728513 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you're on Windows? < 1252728529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously; I'm trying to compile cfunge with cygwin < 1252728536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the lulz < 1252728539 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252728557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it failed a lot at the start because cygwin doesn't pedantically claim to be posix-perfect by defining a name in a header file :) < 1252728564 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would CFunge not work on cygwin? < 1252728579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First of all, it's not CFunge, stop calling it that. < 1252728595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second of all, AnMaster idk, his BFF unrealistic demand for POSIX compliance. < 1252728633 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My demand for cross-platform workability was the cause of a major spec change in PSOX < 1252728648 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although come to think of it, I never tested PSOX on Windows < 1252728682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually planning on writing a fully-featured PDF reader for Windows, complete with browser plugin, so I guess I'm off the deep end into the Dark Side now. < 1252728698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, fun fact: Going off an end to get to a side makes no sense whatsoever. < 1252728780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: This is your new favourite subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/tipofmytongue/ < 1252728817 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I made a comment once or twice about wanting to find something that I forgot the name of? < 1252728832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also posted to reddit about it with cringeworthy audio! < 1252728845 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually post it to reddit < 1252728853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you did < 1252728863 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I posted about something else to reddit < 1252728889 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one of these has cringeworthy audio? http://www.reddit.com/user/Sgeo/submitted/ < 1252728915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually care enough to look... < 1252728967 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I only ever make cringeworthy stuff? < 1252729003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inherentness. :D < 1252729035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you haven't noticed, I'm kind of a dick. True story. < 1252729119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts all the socket includes in the global cfunge header file, says "fuck it" < 1252729201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think "static" isn't working because of an old version of something. < 1252729211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: s/static/inline/ :D < 1252729242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, that would do it < 1252729248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, PE just doesn't do static < 1252729255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: except like 90% of cfunge things are static < 1252729264 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: #define static inline ;) < 1252729276 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's a terrible idea. Don't do that. Seriously) < 1252729291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[04:20] coppro: s/static/inline/ :D < 1252729295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of pre-empted you there... < 1252729303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA < 1252729306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by putting it in the global header < 1252729310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now ALL of the objects conflict < 1252729316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1252729357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252729362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to declare a function inline after the fact? < 1252729402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252729404 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, why would declaring functions inline affect anything other than efficiency? < 1252729412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: it affects the ODR < 1252729418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the QXB < 1252729425 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the TLA < 1252729458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ODR = One Definition Rule < 1252729460 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..why would anything try to define a function more than once? < 1252729473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: you are supid. sop alking < 1252729478 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1252729483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that i've re-attached my t key, hi < 1252729487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is unfamiliar with C-like languages < 1252729496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah shush you :P < 1252729504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bashing sgeo is my national sport. < 1252729507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: #include is a text replacement operation, so if a function is defined in a header, it will be defined in every TU to #include it < 1252729507 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namespace/scope issues? < 1252729523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you're intentionally using acronyms to confuse him, aren't you :P < 1252729523 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why would a function be defined in a header? < 1252729550 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would it work in a real POSIX environment but not cygwin? < 1252729552 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: for whatever reason < 1252729558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin isn't perfect < 1252729560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and windows isn't perfect < 1252729566 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's using Winsock < 1252729571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252729572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1252729573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows' PE executable format has no visibility stuff < 1252729576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore cygwin can't do visibility < 1252729581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore "static" can go fuck itself < 1252729582 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH that would do it < 1252729591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably microsoft's compiler does something special for static < 1252729594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gcc on cygwin doesn't < 1252729613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252729635 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see why functions were defined in headers < 1252729673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've got a truly terrible idea < 1252729682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this particular function is defined in a header written in assembly < 1252729682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1252729684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1252729688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm scared < 1252729699 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: compile Winelib's Winsock in Cygwin < 1252729708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1252729708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT < 1252729709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIT < 1252729719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it probably does the same thing) < 1252729720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I warned you < 1252729728 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is Randall Munroe in disguise! < 1252729736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1252729737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT < 1252729737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIT < 1252729739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO < 1252729760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNTO < 1252729763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BATS < 1252729766 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: alternate solution: how many source files actually include winsock? < 1252729767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAGE < 1252729767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINS < 1252729775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Two. < 1252729783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOCK, and SCKE. Two competing fingerprints. < 1252729791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They cannot be combined. < 1252729792 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pick the one that uses WinSock less and declare the functions yourself < 1252729799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than #including < 1252729803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have to define structures and stuff too. < 1252729810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I could just, you know, kill myself instead. < 1252729912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Maybe I should just disable whichever one fungot doesn't use. < 1252729913 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i did sort-of guess that it would have been a different feature, like first-class continuations. for closures all you need for a portable device with a non-gpl firmware? they shouldn't care about that < 1252729928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think C has first-class continuations, fizzie. < 1252729943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, closures have nothing to do with proprietary portable devices. Indeed they should not care about such things. < 1252729948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fungot < 1252729949 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mit.edu knows the right info! :) how long does it take to build a derived structure in another module < 1252729949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fizzie < 1252729958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1252729958 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot < 1252729963 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C should totally support first-class continuations :D < 1252729975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cleaned up some code that did that once. < 1252729980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And e.g. Elk Scheme does it. < 1252729986 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it does have longjump *shudder* < 1252729991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It involves that. < 1252730014 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is glad longjmp in C++ is basically defined as "go fuck yourself" < 1252730027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You find the base of the stack at the start of the program, then copy from the top of the stack to there. Then you setjmp, and make a (setjmp thingy,stack) tuple type. < 1252730036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To resume, copy the stack back and longjmp. < 1252730040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila! Is like a magic! < 1252730118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you make a cactus stack < 1252730126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1252730135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh. < 1252730138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you just copy the stack. < 1252730139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To an array. < 1252730150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... not hard. < 1252730152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252730154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives you first-class continuations. < 1252730156 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexciting then < 1252730162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The C stack. < 1252730165 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1252730165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works with any C code. < 1252730177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said C should have first-class continuations; I say it's easy to code; you say it's boring. wut < 1252730189 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cactus stacks are more fun! < 1252730208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying a block of memory turns out to be fast, and so are setjmp/longjmp < 1252730209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is fine < 1252730232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not the nop it is in e.g. continuation-passing style < 1252730290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longjmp is an awful hack. Though, that's not *much* of an argument against it. After all, awful hacks are the C way. < 1252730302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setjmp is just saving a bunch of registers and a pointer to the stack < 1252730311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot one step in the make-continuation part < 1252730318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still an awful hack. < 1252730320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1252730323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the resume part < 1252730336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you set the setjmp-struct's stack pointer to point to your newly-restored stack < 1252730338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1252730341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it doesn't work < 1252730341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1252730342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it just be easier to make a function that has no local state call setjmp, thus making a proper continuation easier? < 1252730352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't a continuation < 1252730358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setjmp fails as soon as you fall below the frame that called it < 1252730365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that is totally irrelevant < 1252730368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has nothing to do with that at all < 1252730452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, fungot uses both SOCK and SCKE < 1252730452 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they use python right now < 1252730453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill me now < 1252730456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: no they don't < 1252730456 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: me is looking for something better to happen", or " a deep dark secret". even though it doesn't mean anything < 1252730467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't search for things with no meaning, fungot :P < 1252730481 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1252730486 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to run your own fungot? < 1252730486 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i trust them.)" fnord) < 1252730496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, but running fungot on windows would be fun < 1252730497 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: key words: " in the right hands) to the channel is active, and which i thought replaced it < 1252730507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252730511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea htf to fix this < 1252730543 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you using winsock anyways? < 1252730550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, because that's what cygwin's sockets are. < 1252730555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? fail < 1252730562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :winsock is BSD sockets, you know. < 1252730569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, winsock is at least close to normal sockets. < 1252730572 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically cygwin can't compile sockets < 1252730576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252730576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound right < 1252730583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different header was the main difference, right? < 1252730584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: winsock's API = berkely sockets API < 1252730592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know < 1252730594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**berkely sockets' < 1252730604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: winsock lets you use the BSD header names < 1252730606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works < 1252730606 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cygwin should be able to compile sockets < 1252730613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what the fuck does that mean? < 1252730615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can compile socket code < 1252730619 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it clearly can't < 1252730620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh. < 1252730623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it isn't working < 1252730624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no < 1252730625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen < 1252730629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS gcc < 1252730633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then, winsock is nothing more than an implementation of BSD sockets. < 1252730634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is gcc 4 < 1252730636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why < 1252730639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought cfunge needed it < 1252730644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1252730644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1252730645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1252730646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which GCC can? < 1252730649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works for other people < 1252730651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1252730652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1252730658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cygwin sockets work fine for most people < 1252730662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: winsock is based on BSD sockets. < 1252730666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the actual code. < 1252730699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: In the same way that BSD is an implementation of UNIX. That it's a fork doesn't change that. < 1252730715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252730717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin has socket headers < 1252730718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1252730721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it then includes winsock.h itself < 1252730731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, you're right. I had temporarily forgotten that Windows devs just took BSD sockets and ported it. < 1252730732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i was wrong in saying you can use the old header names with winsock < 1252730734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cygwin donig that < 1252730775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*doing < 1252730795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dhdghdfh < 1252730797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1252730798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is irritating < 1252731190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah fuck it < 1252731196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll obviously work if i fix this, so point proven < 1252731200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that point is < 1252731204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to remove cygcrap from my disk < 1252731365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all gone < 1252731385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Mono supports the windows gui stuff < 1252731790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: as a warning, you may get more flak from me for using C++ in the near future < 1252731809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: says someone considering Mono < 1252731869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm fairly sure that Windows Forms is less horrific than MFC, WTL or Win32, dood. < 1252731889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'll likely go for stock .NET, it's just that that involves using Visual Studio and ew. < 1252731892 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtkmm ftw (or ftl on Windows I guess) < 1252731918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm kinda trying to write something native, small, low memory usage, fast, no dependencies... < 1252731926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically the opposite of gtkmm. < 1252731928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252731993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL? < 1252732010 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or SFML in C++, which I know you hate) < 1252732028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL is a graphics library, not a GUI library... < 1252732043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you mean "make your own widgets", in which case please give me your address so that I may stab you. < 1252732054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I *did* say "native" and all...) < 1252732078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you want native widgets < 1252732086 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yeah, winforms is probably the way to go :/ < 1252732094 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mono has winforms support < 1252732104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, coppro; I want to make a PDF viewer with blinking SDL widgets. :P < 1252732116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's just like every game menu ever!" < 1252732133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yeah; I'm either going for winforms or WTL. < 1252732145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Mono/WinForms has a GUI designer thingy. < 1252732231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, creepy thing of the yesterday: Windows detected that I was using an all-in-one computer in the hardware control panel thing. < 1252732276 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: according to mono's page, SharpDevelop does < 1252732335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/TeaserSharpDevelop2OnVista.png Well, it doesn't look *awful*... < 1252732348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wary because foss stuff is usually crap on windows. < 1252732395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SharpDevelop looks like I'd be able to do it on .NET without using Visual Studio, which is nice. < 1252732409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if .NET can interact with MinGW-compiled code alright. < 1252732421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to compile whatever PDF library i use with MinGW then link it into the final .NET binary... < 1252732431 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1252732451 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Mono can bridge into nonmanaged code yet < 1252732452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it can import dlls fine, the only question is if you can do that with... non-dlls. < 1252732456 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not very well < 1252732487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, Mono's out if I can use .NET without VS. < 1252732522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/SharpDevelop.png not that sharpdevelop looks any better < 1252732536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if these IDE guys ever just look at one of their screenshots. < 1252732548 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, you can < 1252732560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert qualifier "comfortably". < 1252732618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION , wanting to use the Microsoft WinForms site thing, installs Silverlight, sighs < 1252732820 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252732999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, fuck that < 1252733008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs mingw < 1252733011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I'll be using mingw < 1252733508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WoW... and at 7680x3200 res, maxed settings and 80FPS, there's hardly a more appropriate description to AMD's DX11 card..." < 1252733512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agl...flr... < 1252733518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upu...tumaoertjiojgioerjgodfisgjdfgoigosifjg < 1252733526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ashaiuwhuwihaiuhwhatTHEFUCKINGHELL < 1252733529 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codansfods < 1252733529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some mega gpu < 1252733532 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :askdjlf lsakdg;ah;ah;we; a;djls < 1252733537 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO NEEDS THAT < 1252733545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUDE < 1252733547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARALLEL COMPUTING < 1252733553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPENCL < 1252733561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM PRACTICALLY COMPUTING AS I STAND HERE THINKING ABOUT IT < 1252733565 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252733574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/ATI/Eyefinity/eyefinity.jpg holy wow on a stick < 1252733594 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like really < 1252733607 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that big bar in the middle makes it all pointless < 1252733614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN FACT, < 1252733627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all just seems to work, which is arguably the most impressive part of it all. AMD has partnered up with at least one display manufacturer to sell displays with thinner bezels and without distracting LEDs on the front: < 1252733647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/ATI/Eyefinity/eyefinity2.jpg ;; what it'll look like < 1252733666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad, but STILL THERE's A FREAKING BAR IN THE MIDDLE OF MY SCREEN < 1252733667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I played Dirt 2, a DX11 title at 7680 x 3200 and saw definitely playable frame rates. I played Left 4 Dead and the experience was much better. Obviously this new GPU is powerful, although I wouldn't expect it to run everything at super high frame rates at 7680 x 3200." < 1252733681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get 20fps on top settings on crysis at 1024x768, I bet! < 1252733688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sure :P < 1252733691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a tiling wm < 1252733694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one window per screen < 1252733724 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the mouse movement L( < 1252733725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252733735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiling wm < 1252733738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := you wouldn't be using a mouse < 1252733740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time < 1252733778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, it's good as long as your windows don't overlap screens < 1252733785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... very GPU intensive spreadsheets < 1252733802 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, you could do a 6-screen display, but really? < 1252733807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1252733808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, < 1252733832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://files.myopera.com/wiz/albums/781632/wiz-desktop1.jpg < 1252733838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the silentpcreview forums < 1252733852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that huge slab of metal on wheels to the right is a TNN-500AF < 1252733863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a totally heatpipe, no-moving-parts CPU case/psu/etc < 1252733891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy uses it (it costs >$1,000 just for the case) + an SSD (= 0 moving parts computer) + 6 fucking monitors < 1252734094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: holy fuck < 1252734096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine multiple projectors < 1252734097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit < 1252734110 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1252734114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want six fucking projectors and a circular room < 1252734120 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be epic < 1252734128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epicly expensive! < 1252734135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can Xorg handle circular displays? < 1252734145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252734153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just position the projectors right < 1252734163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the room won't be tiny, so it'll look fine at any given position < 1252734172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I mean can xorg handle a screen that you can wrap your mouse all the way round on < 1252734176 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*display < 1252734182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252734187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be trivial < 1252734193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add a hot thing to the left and right edges < 1252734196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to warp to the other edge < 1252734213 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you couldn't stretch windows over, etc. < 1252734217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xinerama < 1252734223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see what you mean < 1252734223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1252734225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be codable < 1252734235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could six projectors cover a decent-sized circular room, btw? < 1252734279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so < 1252734289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, imagine a 3d game designed for one of them < 1252734295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to swerve the mouse to look behind you < 1252734296 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic win :) < 1252734298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just... look behind you < 1252734314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1252734318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just had an idea < 1252734319 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a swivel chair hooked into the system < 1252734320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is a good idea < 1252734332 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you turn left, you /actually turn left/ < 1252734332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: actually, a chair thing that straps you in and can go 360 degrees in any dimension < 1252734338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can rotate in any way < 1252734339 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252734340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1252734345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little button things at the left and right sidse < 1252734353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that when your hand or foot hits one < 1252734358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a motor to rotate that way < 1252734363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on the pressure you apply < 1252734382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount a keyboard and mouse on it < 1252734394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, add in a full surround sound setup < 1252734422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be awesome, but would you use a spherical screen? < 1252734429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :projectors < 1252734430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember < 1252734435 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, spherical? < 1252734440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1252734446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the world isn't spherical, so that would be useless < 1252734449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1252734451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you go outside < 1252734465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a circular room would be fine if it curved into the ceiling and floor < 1252734470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the sky and ground are... basically flat. < 1252734472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably you mount the projectors on the outer ring of the frame? < 1252734484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere on the ceiling, yeah < 1252734491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with the surround sound speakers < 1252734495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, presumably, the hardware < 1252734502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I meant the frame that the chair is mounted to < 1252734506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252734506 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, speakers in the walls < 1252734509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252734511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252734512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't rotate that way < 1252734513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without lag < 1252734515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the mounting to chair) < 1252734527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount to the ceiling < 1252734533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can look normally < 1252734536 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the chair has to have one fixed mount < 1252734544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two gimbals < 1252734545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1252734547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain < 1252734551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, speakers in the walls will be bad quality, the wall will muffle them < 1252734553 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get 360 degree rotation < 1252734564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are speakers designed to use the surface as the wall to amplify the sound < 1252734570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1252734576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, ceiling and floor vision is kinda useless < 1252734581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope < 1252734585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, okay, the floor makes it more immersive < 1252734589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who looks up at the sky in a game? < 1252734592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it blue-ish < 1252734600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1252734600 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mount the projectors on the fixed frame < 1252734608 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they are in the middle of the room < 1252734613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252734614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1252734616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252734620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chair doesn't really need 360 degree motion < 1252734624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252734624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just needs to be strap-in < 1252734633 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think just rotation would be fine < 1252734634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an actual chair would just be awkward with all of this < 1252734639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: by strap-in, you'd be vertical, ofc < 1252734651 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oic < 1252734664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, lol, were you imagining doing a loop while sitting down < 1252734670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FUCK. YOU. GRAVITY!" < 1252734676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm going to sit upside down!" < 1252734686 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: with force-feedback points attached all over the body :D < 1252734693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that may be going too far :P < 1252734699 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, not all over < 1252734702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, it's more awesome vertical as it means you can make the enemies real size < 1252734702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252734708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about when the enemy gets right next to you < 1252734709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252734711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd appear meters away < 1252734711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like, on the arms and legs < 1252734717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: WE ARE NOT DOING 3D HOLOGRAMS) < 1252734717 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 3d glasses obv < 1252734730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, < 1252734730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? easy enough < 1252734737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: 3d glasses make you lose colour < 1252734742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's gray and washed out < 1252734744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, red/blue ones < 1252734750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shutter ones give you a headache, no? < 1252734751 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not red-blue < 1252734759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polarization imo < 1252734759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what then < 1252734767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used shutter ones, not a big deal imo < 1252734781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difficulty arises because light reflected from a motion picture screen tends to lose a bit of its polarization. However, this problem is eliminated if a 'silver' or Aluminized screen is used. This means that a pair of aligned DLP projectors, some polarizing filters, a silver screen, and a computer with a dual-head graphics card can be used to form a relatively low-cost (under US$10 000 in 2003) system for displaying stereosco < 1252734784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not immersive < 1252734788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what's the disadvantage < 1252734791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do polarizing ones blink too < 1252734799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1252734805 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't notice the blink < 1252734807 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a little while < 1252734809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they retain full colour and brightness? < 1252734826 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: probably not full brightness < 1252734858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that can be dealt with easy < 1252734864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, if an enemy's that close to you, you're fucked anyway :P < 1252734880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make the screen wrap to the floor < 1252734892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you see someone lying down, YOU ARE ABOUT TO DIE" < 1252734919 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but imagine you have like rubber-like cables attached to your arms, and they can be made more or less stretchy depending on the current applied to them < 1252734931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get variable resistance < 1252734949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what does this projection set up have that's better than a bunch of small screens in a circle mounted almost to fit your head? < 1252734951 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should patent this :P < 1252734962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from being less immersive and not letting things get close enough < 1252734976 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: more awesome? < 1252734977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(think Data, but mounted so you can turn around) < 1252734988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wtf, having a ring around your head that covers your whole vision is totally awesome :P < 1252735002 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other people could watch? < 1252735011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1252735015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except no < 1252735017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd block your vision < 1252735035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1252735078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the chair idea of this is definitely the most interesting part I thin < 1252735079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1252735080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait we're stupid < 1252735083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1252735089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rear projection < 1252735115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that help < 1252735116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1252735126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having to mount them? < 1252735129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kinda minor < 1252735136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, no < 1252735145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get circular panels to rear project on < 1252735146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: prevents the projectors from having to deal with objects in the room < 1252735154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so make them. < 1252735160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have an infinite budget, but it can't be used on research < 1252735166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise we can make anything that's physically possible < 1252735172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more fun to have that constraint < 1252735183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252735187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will always block your vision < 1252735188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what < 1252735192 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think rear-projection requires a special screen anyways < 1252735225 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, but they won't block the projector's line of fire. People blocking vision = semi-realistic (not for objects at close distances, but it works for objects far away). Projector shadows = fail < 1252735241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an enemy's coming at you at that angle... < 1252735249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, 3d holograms are totally awesome < 1252735252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's unrealistic, so it doesn't matter what happens then < 1252735254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *impractical < 1252735259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe the circular thing is cheating already < 1252735264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't any games that let you look behind you like that < 1252735271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unecessary too < 1252735289 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we do 3d, we can make do with an easier geometry (hexagon) < 1252735306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew ew ew < 1252735309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reality isn't hexagonal < 1252735311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fwiw < 1252735311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.simprojects.nl/multi_projector.htm < 1252735317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsurprisingly, it's to run a flight simulator < 1252735330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every-fucking-thing that's about displays and is wildly excessive is about flight simulators < 1252735343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not even fun! < 1252735349 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can fake it with the 3d effect < 1252735357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not seamless, lame < 1252735360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use screens < 1252735362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do hexagonal < 1252735365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore BORING < 1252735367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why isn't it seamless? < 1252735373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because reality isn't circular < 1252735391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: huh? < 1252735405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1252735413 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reality isn't circular meaning...? < 1252735433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine an fps < 1252735439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a hexagonal room, it'd be boring < 1252735443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, you can do hexagonal with displays < 1252735446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's very boring < 1252735458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at that size < 1252735474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares < 1252735477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexagonal is the suck < 1252735657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.simprojects.nl/diy_motion_platform_iii.htm < 1252735661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pitch, roll and raw computer setup < 1252735663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy is insane < 1252735668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw, where would the computer go? < 1252735674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the cables run above the chair into the ceiling < 1252735679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the computer's there < 1252735686 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floor seems better imo < 1252735694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but < 1252735699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it < 1252735703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that possibly work < 1252735715 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers are on the next floor down < 1252735730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, as opposed to the ceiling? < 1252735741 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you are probably attaching stuff to the floor already < 1252735754 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to anchor to the floor than the ceiling < 1252735768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need an anchor < 1252735780 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want motors to power anything you do < 1252735798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the projector lenses (standard focal lengths would be too long), and the optics involved. With correct optics, you could have each projector only have a 23" image on a screen. Theoretically you could even project such an image onto a cylindrical or hemispherical surface like a personal IMAX assuming you had the correct lenses and such. < 1252735799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-reddit < 1252735805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://videoscreens.net/curved%20screens.htm < 1252735808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-reddit < 1252735842 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1252736359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1252736367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.NET can only interop with .dlls, I think < 1252736500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then compile a DLL version of your... oh wait, DLLs require special code < 1252736521 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252736731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, it's just that I want a single-file solution < 1252736747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rather, reader + docs if any + plugin < 1252736759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for simplicity < 1252736762 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252736763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably use WTL, then < 1252736777 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way to combine the .NET and non-.NET code into one DLL? < 1252736781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't be too much of a pain for a simple UI- oh, hm, I just realised something < 1252736795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use WinForms easily anyway, because netscape plugins are C/C++ < 1252736808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I could call into the .NET gui from the plugin < 1252736808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ew < 1252736810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a pain < 1252736815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that'd still be .dll + .exe < 1252736820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll just use WTL or whatever < 1252736844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the notepad2 source code < 1252736847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be an inspiration < 1252736858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I can't use stock MinGW, I think < 1252736865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't do 64-bit binaries :( < 1252736910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how difficult building an Okular plugin for firefox would be < 1252736919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for firefox < 1252736923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the netscape plugin api < 1252736930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(firefox has no separate plugin mechanism) < 1252736943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'll work with firefox, safari, chrome, ... I think Opera too < 1252736968 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah < 1252736991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I'm really just trying to make something as good as OS X's Preview standalone and Safari's PDF in the browser for Windows < 1252737012 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1252737032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari's PDF is wonderfully simple; it's just the PDF, there, you can use Safari's regular zoom controls and the only UI is, if you hover near the bottom, a semi-transparent black HUD-type thing with a view outline icons fades in < 1252737051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just two buttons for zoom in/zoom out, an "open in Preview" button, and a download button < 1252737074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, nice < 1252737096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole PDF is rendered instantly, all at once < 1252737118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an awesome thing Snow Leopard added is, if a PDF is formatted into columns, it (presumably using a heuristic), when selecting, just uses that column < 1252737121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to going over the others < 1252737130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not sure if he prefers rendering the whole thing or not < 1252737134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := you can finally copy from those &*^#$*&& two-column LaTeX papers < 1252737142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: when it's instant, it's obviously better < 1252737152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: instant entire document is not always an option < 1252737161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try safari then tell me that :) < 1252737170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on OS X) < 1252737186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only ever slow when "converting" (executing) one of those silly computing postscript programs < 1252737194 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'll believe it can do most documents pretty fast. I would be exceedingly surprised if it could render the C++0x draft standard in under a second < 1252737202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1252737214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have to reboot, but I can give you a pretty good guess < 1252737222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 2k+ pages < 1252737243 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I'm exaggerating < 1252737245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1252737246 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1300 < 1252737253 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2009/n2914.pdf < 1252737278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, have you ever come across one of those .dvis converted to pdf? < 1252737284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always with the uber-smudgy, uncopiable text < 1252737328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: depends on the converter < 1252737337 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that comes with Ubuntu's TeX does it right < 1252737342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but have you come across one like that? < 1252737348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially from ACM sites < 1252737359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I estimate Safari would render that in about four-five seconds < 1252737364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've come cross them < 1252737368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a slow computer and it's a bad day, maybe 7-8, tops < 1252737371 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst though are MS word ones < 1252737374 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok < 1252737375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it pops up a little discreet progress bar while rendering < 1252737383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't think it's really a problem < 1252737396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, I have an insane planned fix for that < 1252737412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recognize lines and their thickness in it (sort of like what captcha-breaking software does) < 1252737412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1252737420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :convert this to a vector image, except < 1252737425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's just really minor variation in the thickness < 1252737428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normalise it to one value < 1252737435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then render it at any size < 1252737441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila, smudgy text becomes scalable < 1252737442 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with whole-document rendering is the memory a big document will take up < 1252737454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much ram have you got? < 1252737468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots, sure < 1252737472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can be a problem < 1252737485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many copies of the c++0x standard do you open a day? < 1252737492 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: quite often, actually < 1252737495 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252737497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many at once, I mean < 1252737502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, one < 1252737524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: c++0x, the file, is 9mb < 1252737536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try and get sumatra to render it all < 1252737555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sumatra? < 1252737560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right ok < 1252737566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lightweight windows pdf reader < 1252737595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: groan @ the first page warning on c++0x < 1252737654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sumatra, it seems, won't render it all at once < 1252737678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, at the very maximum, say adobe reader 11.72 or something, I bet that c++0x fully rendered, plus all the application baggage, cannot possibly be more than 400MB < 1252737687 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty big < 1252737689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a lightweight reader, say 100MB < 1252737710 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially for my system, with little real ram and too much swap < 1252737714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you almost certainly have 2-4GB of ram, and it's a very unusually large document; is a hundred meg or two unacceptable? < 1252737725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(new computer has more ram, yay) < 1252737752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I just don't see a situation on any sort of modern computer where you must open C++0x all the time and yet never have 200MB of RAM free < 1252737755 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, I'm not really trying to defend anything, so it's a pointless debate < 1252737761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252737776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing you can do when rendering all at once is display pages as they render < 1252737784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, a pdf always opens instantly when you click < 1252737791 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but RAM is seriously the limiting factor of speed on this thing < 1252737794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from download time, but again you can do it incrementally) < 1252737800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: how much has it got? what computer is it? < 1252737800 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i has a ram < 1252737806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yes, 12gb of it < 1252737807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANKS TO ME < 1252737808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252737844 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's an old Dell latitude. I forget how much it actually has on sticks, but it's small enough that swapping kills performance when large amounts of ram are gobbled up < 1252737858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, free -mh < 1252737859 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted, a link is special because it needs access to all that RAM at once < 1252737866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes two seconds to find out how much ram you have :P < 1252737871 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1G < 1252737876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow < 1252737882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yepper < 1252737898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had 1GB in here until december 08, actually < 1252737902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5 is noticably snappier < 1252737907 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new computer has 3 < 1252737912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: mistake < 1252737914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have gone for 4 < 1252737920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1252737925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252737928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 isn't much better than 2 < 1252737930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 4 is a lot better < 1252737931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :price was a concern < 1252737936 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why? < 1252737939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 vs 4 is like $10 < 1252737942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: don't ask me < 1252737956 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nope :( < 1252737984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much < 1252738016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget < 1252738018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not cheap though < 1252738034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the other big thing is a non-ATI graphics card < 1252738045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing or bad thing < 1252738046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1252738049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing < 1252738052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wait < 1252738053 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATI linux drivers = the stains < 1252738058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you replacing an ATI card in your current machine < 1252738062 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mooooooooooooooooo < 1252738062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an intel one in your new one? < 1252738063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, new machine < 1252738069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1252738075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your current machine has ATI < 1252738076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct? < 1252738080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252738081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your new machine has intel < 1252738082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct? < 1252738083 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252738086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: LOLOLOLOLOLOLO < 1252738090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intel drivers for linux suck shit < 1252738091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want a high-power card < 1252738096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even do stuff full screen < 1252738100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that xkcd about full screen flash wasn't a joke < 1252738113 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit really? I thought... dammit < 1252738123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252738127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting better, but... you just downgraded as far as linux is concerned < 1252738129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it a few months :\ < 1252738135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be much worse than ATI < 1252738144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATI drivers are pretty good these days... < 1252738147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1252738170 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish < 1252738170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this because I have an ATI card in this machine and it's always worked absolutely perfectly and fast with linux. :P < 1252738177 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this one has not < 1252738183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, 'cuz it's old :P < 1252738197 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSS driver hates me, and... well.. FGLRX < 1252738204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about fglrx < 1252738208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has always worked for me < 1252738214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random crashes < 1252738219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1252738221 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freezes, actually < 1252738234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems that notepad2 is built with visual studio < 1252738246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, visual c++ 7 < 1252738247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1252738254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably *coded* with notepad2 < 1252738256 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever I try to do anything more graphics-intensive than, say, glxgears < 1252738272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your new intel card will solve that, nothing more intensive will run :-P < 1252738279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252738281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm teasing, it isn't _that_ bad < 1252738282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1252738291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in limbo atm < 1252738295 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I suspect not < 1252738304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although full screen youtube is still a no-no < 1252738313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably a good thing for your IQ < 1252738320 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1252738328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only stuff I use youtube for is music < 1252738334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the discrete graphics versions cost more and you can't get base configurations (so they're higher apart from the card) < 1252738336 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no need for full screen or even a screen at all < 1252738343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus they're heavier, and have less battery life while on the card < 1252738350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you probably made the right choice < 1252738352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252738383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though hybrid graphics sound appealing (I somehow suspect Linux doesn't have support for that though) < 1252738425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find a T60p review that has the 14" model < 1252738497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up :P < 1252738510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the T43 is prettier than the T60, but I need my dual core : < 1252738511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252738520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, more than 2GB of RAM. < 1252738564 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is t60 < 1252738581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what else I've discovered about Linux and bad drivers? < 1252738590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux can't suspend to USB < 1252738591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: thinkpad < 1252738592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :model < 1252738594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old one < 1252738600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ...so? :P < 1252738611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my current hard drive is USB < 1252738619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus fucking christ < 1252738623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the speed < 1252738624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1252738631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must confiscate that laptop immediately < 1252738634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are no longer allowed to use it < 1252738668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh, the speed isn't much different < 1252738675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is < 1252738678 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not < 1252738681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB has awful speed and awful latency < 1252738686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the actual speed of operations < 1252738687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the raw speed < 1252738692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just because HDs are the bottleneck anyway < 1252738701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's why my notebook will be blessed with an SSD! < 1252738714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hopefully. < 1252738717 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual speed of usb sucks < 1252738723 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb2 is what, 60mb/s < 1252738727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: "operations" < 1252738728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1252738729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tasks < 1252738729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing stuff < 1252738731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the computer < 1252738737 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, raw speed < 1252738745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252738765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but latency is what matters < 1252738781 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a temporary solution and it's not worth my pry apart this drive and put this on the internal mount < 1252738787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't really notice a problem < 1252738821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least every app you have is a portable app :P < 1252738827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroot /media/usb < 1252738843 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what my school would do if I booted off this < 1252738851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on a school computer) < 1252738865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freak at the error screen because you don't have the drivers < 1252738889 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has them :) < 1252738909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freak at the desktop and tell you to put it back < 1252738924 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspension methinks < 1252738947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some school you go to < 1252739145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1252739150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bbl < 1252739152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public school board (: < 1252739153 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252739641 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252739774 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252739830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is video game music so awesome? < 1252740668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1252741064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1252741373 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it" < 1252741535 0 :ehird!i=5b696218@gateway/web/freenode/x-thuoqnczyhmjeuys JOIN :#esoteric < 1252742290 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252742399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252742400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252743155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch. notepad2 is totally c apart from a c++ file to wrap scintilla < 1252743158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way am i reading win32 code < 1252743171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even seems it constructs the gui in code < 1252743625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an argument for rendering pdfs all in one go: search is quicker < 1252743761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I'm going to use MinGW, C/C++ and... something for the gui < 1252744569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, not mingw < 1252744583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.drangon.org/mingw/ < 1252744589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it has x64 < 1252744600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you know what, i don't give a shit about making an x64 binary < 1252744603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fucking pdf reader < 1252744655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh joy, you do not have c:/MinGW/bin/make.exe. Keep it that way." --MSYS postinstall < 1252745993 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252746100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan . < 1252746103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oerjan. < 1252746116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird . < 1252746200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Evil is a library that tries to implement for Windows some Unix function that do not exist on the evil Microsoft platform." // damn that's some mature naming scheme < 1252747306 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252747500 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252747756 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252747804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252747822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252747843 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252747861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1252747964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, chatzilla seems acceptable like this < 1252748270 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90353@gateway/web/freenode/x-kfevrbayydbsjjij JOIN :#esoteric < 1252748309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1252748315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1252748488 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252748518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, if I can get messages highlighting me to not show up in the server tab I'll be perfectly happ < 1252748521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1252748522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\ny/y/ < 1252748588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ehird < 1252748589 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird ehird < 1252748594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ehird < 1252748594 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird ehird < 1252748603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, that works < 1252748721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chatzilla users: rheet < 1252748724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interesting feature... < 1252748821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1252749150 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252749162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test ;) < 1252749164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I disabled that earlier < 1252749167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still only one thing to fix... < 1252749194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, an easy preference change < 1252749198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wundervoll < 1252749204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252749232 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.98.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252749247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hullo < 1252749280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tentatively tries Pidgin and sighs as he can't find a good damn Im client < 1252749282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IM < 1252749488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great, gtk menus on windows are... wait for it... non-native-behaving < 1252749504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly < 1252749522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this your first time using Windows or something? :-P < 1252749531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens on OS X too < 1252749537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just irritates me every single time < 1252749543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I know someone spent hours on that < 1252749548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they failed, terribly < 1252749565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, the pidgin menus look like windows classic's < 1252749569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the menu contents that is < 1252749592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the menu looks like a regular win7 menu, except with more vertical padding and instead of an indent, the items get a blue background < 1252749668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hide new IM conversations: [ Never | When Away | Always ] < 1252749672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] Minimize new conversation windows" < 1252749682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the flying fuck is the difference.......... < 1252749724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this, it's clear every pidgin developer uses windows 2000 or something < 1252749731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is every pidgin developer that uses windows < 1252749733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is -1 < 1252749818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this fuss and in the end the only extra programs I have so far are Microsoft Security Essentials, Google Chrome, Flash, Sumatra PDF, and ChatZilla < 1252749825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because all the others suck. < 1252749828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252749839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that's the nice thing about a platform nobody uses < 1252749846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's far less software, and so far less sucking software < 1252750268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you wouldn't happen to know of an unarchiver that doesn't try and be a file manager, would you? < 1252750271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even 7zip does that crap < 1252750319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it matter? You don't have to use it as a file manager < 1252750413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's kind of annoying viewing files in Explorer one second and then using 7zip's crap file interface the next < 1252750440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's really hard to hook into Explorer or something; seems like there'd be something like the built-in "compressed folders" for multiple formats. < 1252750658 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use the shell extension and right-click -> extract here, or whatever < 1252750672 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1252750691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not actually anything like compressed folders; you can dig in them without extracting. < 1252750716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know, but it saves you from the "crap file interface" at least. < 1252750718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's marginally better than clicking extract in the 7zip file manager, but annoying because you can't view the contents without extracting. < 1252750724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Snap < 1252750727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of < 1252750779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1252750800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see I was highlighted by ehird. Interesting. < 1252750806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads scrollback < 1252750810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How unusual! < 1252750819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even remember what it was for; now I get to read it too! < 1252750820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Exciting" < 1252750842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: yo, M_PI is non-standard. <-- hm. Will have to check that. < 1252750863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah. < 1252750881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I got cfunge almost linking with Cygwin. < 1252750895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop, it is in POSIX, just checked < 1252750903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of XSI however < 1252750909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it at least isn't in Cygwin < 1252750920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed only a few changes to get it to compile but not link, btw. < 1252750931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to get cfunge to work on Cygwin and IIRC didn't succeed. < 1252750933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't remember why. < 1252750941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linking problem was that PE has no visibility stuff, and so every "static" was ignored, which caused SCKE and SOCK to both have two functions from winsock stuff. < 1252750956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about the winsock thing: I have no fucking clue either. All I use are some standard functions for converting between system-endianness and network-endianness < 1252750967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those were what were both defined < 1252750968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those htons ones I mean < 1252750977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're defined in the header file, for some perverse reason < 1252750982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how to fix that, the rest is pretty trivial though < 1252750997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on glibc they are defined as inline asm if gcc is used iirc. :D < 1252751008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise using functions < 1252751011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a drop-in getaddrinfo implementation that you can just #include and link to, and you have to define M_PI < 1252751014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's it < 1252751017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but weren't they static inline? < 1252751019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should solve it < 1252751026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:22 Linking problem was that PE has no visibility stuff, and so every "static" was ignored, which caused SCKE and SOCK to both have two functions from winsock stuff. < 1252751038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about environ? < 1252751047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how it works on non-cygwin. I was using gcc 4, which I guess isn't very maintained on cygwin. < 1252751051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin provides. < 1252751056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah right < 1252751065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, the ccmake was ludicrously slow; spawning processes really is expensive. < 1252751073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aren't there already other duplicate name, different files stuff? < 1252751073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it took about 7 seconds to get to 18%. < 1252751081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like what? < 1252751089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's better than autotools < 1252751091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cmake here it takes like 5 seconds in total < 1252751095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure --help is typically about 20 seconds < 1252751105 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A complete ./configure, about 20 minutes. < 1252751109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, I tried the ./configure included with the getaddrinfo; took like a minute to finish < 1252751115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What do you mean about duplicate name? < 1252751118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1252751119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1252751122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheer luck there < 1252751132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I shall have to include that then ;P < 1252751134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, it's slow because process spawning is slow on Windows. < 1252751142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, configure is slow even on linux..., often a minute or so < 1252751152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep < 1252751160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I might write a patch or a few to get it working on Cygwin if I can be bothered and you'll commit them < 1252751161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about _Exit vs. _exit < 1252751167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I want to use cygwin or anything < 1252751171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the former is C99, the latter is POSIX < 1252751176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule of thumb: on Windows it's about 50-100 times slower than on Linux < 1252751177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252751179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, Cygwin doesn't have the former < 1252751189 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a ./configure takes a minute on Linux, it'll take an hour on Windows. < 1252751196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just telling you that _Exit is *in theory* more portable ;P < 1252751201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably some sort of KillWithExtremePrejudiceExExEx. < 1252751220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, think about ./configure for GCC, LLVM, Apache or some other huge project < 1252751222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, would you commit said patches? < 1252751248 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Just _exit. < 1252751257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, that's what I replaced it with < 1252751264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends, I'll have to review them, And the _Exit() vs. _exit() in general would make it less portable, I might however add a cmake test and fall back on the other or such < 1252751269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I was talking about average-sized projects. < 1252751278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course, I'd add cmake tests for everything < 1252751289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about mmap()? < 1252751293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd just be a few different lines of code, and some extra source files in lib/ < 1252751294 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those, you'll indeed have to ./configure for an hour. < 1252751296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cygwin provides that, obviously < 1252751296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, make sure it actually works for mycology < 1252751303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will, once the damn thing links < 1252751319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what would the stuff in lib be? < 1252751322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just use CCBI, but it's more fun to subvert the "WINDOWS COULD NEVER POSSIBLY SUPPORT POSIX HARD ENOUGH" < 1252751328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also tend to have sub-projects wherein make invokes configure and >_< < 1252751338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The implementation of getaddrinfo, which Cygwin inexplicably doesn't have. < 1252751350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's BSD-licensed or somesuch, so no worries linking the .o. < 1252751359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252751372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much does cfunge fork()? < 1252751392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much do you think if it's performance-optimized to the point of ludicrousness? :-P < 1252751398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only in PERL fingerprint < 1252751403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork()'s cheap on unix < 1252751406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That should be fine then. < 1252751413 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still relatively expensive < 1252751415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I just want to say one thing about Cygwin. < 1252751427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SETUP.EXE HAS THE WORST POSSIBLE PACKAGE MANAGING UI OUT OF ALL POSSIBLE UIS FOR THAT PURPOSE < 1252751428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in PERL fingerprint it does weird stuff with pipes and file descriptors btw < 1252751431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE MULTIVERSE < 1252751435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you. < 1252751445 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You exaggerate too much < 1252751446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cygwin should handle it. < 1252751449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it usable enough < 1252751452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, seriously, that thing is fucking awful < 1252751457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SETUP.EXE HAS THE WORST POSSIBLE PACKAGE MANAGING UI OUT OF ALL POSSIBLE UIS FOR THAT PURPOSE <-- so it is still as bad as back when I used it a few years ago then. heh < 1252751466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "setup.exe -q -P pkg1,pkg2" should install stuff, but it doesn't < 1252751474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a CLI? < 1252751478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It'd also be nice if the programs were newer than 34573485735 years old < 1252751479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know that < 1252751488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know about the CLI either < 1252751492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not officially, it's still experimental and we won't document it and if you use it we will kill you < 1252751496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: The above sentiment was expressed on the mailing list < 1252751498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in < 1252751500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait for it < 1252751502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003 < 1252751505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin is fucking dead < 1252751520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly slow-going, yes < 1252751531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not odd... windows + cygwin works worse than linux + wine < 1252751544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the only other thing providing fork() and mmap() shit is MSYS, which is just a fork of an ancient cygwin and only supports gcc 2 or something to compile MSYS executables and is only aimed at using as a shell/utils. < 1252751556 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1252751572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be quite easy to add fork() to the Windows kernel, wouldn't it? < 1252751573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about Microsoft's own POSIX implementation thingy < 1252751578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a process is just a structure in memory. < 1252751582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Interix? That thing's ancient, innit? < 1252751589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, innot. < 1252751605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GCC 3.3 compiler, includes and libraries" < 1252751609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is < 1252751610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hey you aren't oerjan < 1252751621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey no shit < 1252751623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't a pun < 1252751627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm, I only tested cfunge on gcc 3.4 and later < 1252751634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? ok < 1252751656 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252751676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just like to take the time to endorse some non-Cygwin software that I haven't used for anything yet but must be better than Cygwin because anything is: Xming, MinGW, GnuWin32 (http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/) < 1252751699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternative to last one: MSYS (it's okay because you can't add packages or anything.) < 1252751719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that DOS one? < 1252751721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the name < 1252751729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP. It doesn't do fork() or anything. < 1252751735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, true < 1252751736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's for DOS, and meh. < 1252751737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use MinGW. < 1252751753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get GCC 4.2 on Interix from http://debian-interix.net/ < 1252751756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MinGW doesn't provide fork() < 1252751763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a sec < 1252751772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian... interix? < 1252751778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, MinGW doesn't provide any sort of POSIX API < 1252751780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1252751780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows does, though < 1252751807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MinGW is just a compiler < 1252751810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It happens to be gcc < 1252751817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also free Windows headers < 1252751818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what CFLAGS are you using? < 1252751826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles Windows executables with the Windows libraries, which include libc and some POSIX stuff < 1252751830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It includes headers for these libaries < 1252751833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it < 1252751837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The release ones < 1252751844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll install cygwin again and try and make this crap work < 1252751853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. < 1252751860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a separate gcc-4.2 from http://www.suacommunity.com/ < 1252751864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. Don't remember if that includes -O3. Try -O3, because possibly that will make gcc inline that htons() stuff, which will prevent those functions from being emitted at all < 1252751869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will make it linjk < 1252751870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically know what to do, but don't know how to fix the SCKE/SOCK problem. < 1252751870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link* < 1252751874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just a wild guess < 1252751895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I could just #define static inline before including sockets :-P < 1252751906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh so they are static but not inline? < 1252751916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so < 1252751921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm sure that would break stuff in cfunge. < 1252751921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they go in the final .o < 1252751923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously < 1252751937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, becuase iirc SOCK and SCKE includes some static variables < 1252751943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and inline variable makes no sense < 1252751947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd #undef static afterwards, duh < 1252751951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252751955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, we could totally make inline variables make sense. < 1252751965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah by #define inline static :P < 1252751980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are inlined at their first use, and assigning to them modifies the machine code in that function < 1252751983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To have the different value < 1252751998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're accessed from inside that function's machine code too < 1252752033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could inline them at every use, and made assignment modify all the use locations. < 1252752038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you would need to determine first use at runtime < 1252752047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In source file < 1252752052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, that's much better < 1252752062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie++ < 1252752070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep, makes more sense < 1252752079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads PuTTY, because it'll surely come in handy later. < 1252752080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice to have "x=5" expand to 200 code self-modifications. < 1252752093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: totally < 1252752101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, that'd be great < 1252752115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I assume this will be one diff for each separate fix, rather than some huge mixed up diff? < 1252752139 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you assume incorrectly < 1252752150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Does bzr work on Windows? < 1252752155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252752161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so yes < 1252752166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practically all VCSs do. < 1252752167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just make bzr commits then < 1252752175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey, it would even be useful in some cases, like when a variable is assigned very seldom, but read a lot < 1252752192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like allocating a block depending on command line options or so < 1252752194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because memory reads are so expensive :-P < 1252752210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah, but you can save a few clock cycles on it < 1252752217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd lose more time combined changing 1000 parts of memory < 1252752231 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252752243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw, is this 64-bit windows? < 1252752253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, cygwin wouldn't be < 1252752254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but Cygwin is 32-bit afaik. < 1252752257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252752275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the programs I've installed are 32-bit :P < 1252752282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the antivirus... < 1252752301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is some beta from Microsoft that I had to get from softpedia or something because apparently my country isn't invited) < 1252752319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1252752329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft made an antivirus? < 1252752332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it uses barely any megs and if it breaks I can blame microsoft < 1252752341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Security Essentials < 1252752343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems decent < 1252752347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also does antimalware and stuff < 1252752362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252752371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the former Windows Defender? < 1252752373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Inline variables" like that aren't especially uncommon in hand-crafted assembly, for example in cases where you have some sort of configurable behaviour in a loop; it's cheaper to have a constant jmp instruction, whose operand is modified, than a separate variable with a load + indirect-jump in the loop. < 1252752385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it uses the same definitions and everything < 1252752434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1252752442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Depends. The Intel manuals warn against modifying code within 1KB (IIRC) of the modifying code < 1252752473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think it's more an extended Windows Defender for, you know, extended purposes. < 1252752478 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have sufficiently few iterations it may be cheaper to do the load and allow the branch predictor to handle the jump < 1252752502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, well, modern architectures are confusing. I was talking more about 6502 and z80 assembly, where you can just count cycles, and everything's very obvious. < 1252752527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there any predefined define to see if you run under cygwin btw? < 1252752531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; if your CPU is just a blind interpreter then sure, that's faster :-) < 1252752539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: #ifdef __GNU__ :-P < 1252752552 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: __CYGWIN__ < 1252752554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that makes no sense < 1252752555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1252752556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah right < 1252752557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Or that < 1252752565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, since you're talking about it I'll do it < 1252752578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do what? < 1252752589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patch up cfunge < 1252752594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know of a lightweight programming editor for windows with a file tree list sidebar thingy? < 1252752606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, make sure it actually works first ;P < 1252752606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to hack this up as opposed to futzing with WordPad (which now looks like Word) and Explorer. < 1252752615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you manage to solve it < 1252752617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it won't, out of the box < 1252752619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to patch it < 1252752621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know < 1252752622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1252752622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code < 1252752630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was talking about the SOCK stuff < 1252752634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1252752657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is it okay if I make it do dirty, dirty things if it's conditioned to only do it on cygwin? < 1252752667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like compiling SOCK and SCKE in one go to the same .o, say... < 1252752683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how the hell would you do that under cmake? < 1252752695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No bloody idea. < 1252752712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added the getaddrinfo object file as a "linker option" and commented out the checks for it; that's how build-system hostile I've been :-P < 1252752724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh < 1252752724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I almost gave up when I realised I'd have to install cmake. :-P < 1252752740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just add it conditionally to the cfunge sources < 1252752755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably for the best, yes < 1252752758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs a define, though < 1252752761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doesn't that violate gpl3? < 1252752762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you *could* run gcc manually. I've done it on an openbsd box once < 1252752773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't bsd GPL compatible? < 1252752784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but your GPL code will try and infect the BSD code < 1252752788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's evil < 1252752793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, at least < 1252752804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how the viral stuff works because it's an incredibly ill-defined concept. < 1252752814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in the linked result it will be GPL, but not in the source file? < 1252752822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I think so < 1252752837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows :P < 1252752856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, I was doing it on cfunge 0.9.0 < 1252752859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how outdated is that? < 1252752861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*How < 1252752890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm last release. let me check how many revisions ago < 1252752908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm going to bemuse the ChatZilla users who aren't ChatZilla in-the-know kind of people some more: rheet rheet rheet < 1252752914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just a few revisions ago, and the stuff after was pretty minor changes < 1252752919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That includes me < 1252752923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some typo fixes in comments and such < 1252752934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Let's hope the cygwin bzr is new enough < 1252752939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm goin' in < 1252752943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what version < 1252752948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea < 1252752950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm about to download setup.exe < 1252752955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr --version < 1252752962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok, not installed yet < 1252752997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use gcc 3 this time < 1252753027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bzr 0.92 or later is absolutely required due to repo file format. But I would definitely recommend something more like 1.6 or later < 1252753033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is using 1.17 < 1252753057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 1.17 okay? < 1252753059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1252753075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's surprisingly recent for cygwin :P < 1252753081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has gcc 4.3 on the 4 package < 1252753084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, I think 1.18 is out now though < 1252753102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep 1.18 is out now < 1252753113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, as they say in the vernacular, let's do this shit < 1252753119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1252753135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing cygwin, will then bzr myself some cfunge and sit bemused at bzr's interface < 1252753147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is as far as I have planned < 1252753149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what is the probability of ehird publishing it as a launchpad branch < 1252753157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approximately -2 < 1252753167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of 1, naturally < 1252753189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about copyright, I wonder if I should do like fsf here ;P < 1252753206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if 0 is "certain that it won't happen", -1 is "certain that its negative will happen". < 1252753215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then 2 is... certain it will happen... twice < 1252753216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252753219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n\?/?/ < 1252753221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252753230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think I can agree to contracts < 1252753232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being a minor < 1252753236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh damn < 1252753245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I can't contribute then! < 1252753260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess you can. I just wonder... < 1252753292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...if you or me will be most irritated by you being listed in CREDITS ;P < 1252753337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1252753341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252753350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just spell my name Elliot and ensure that I stay more annoyed < 1252753355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: DO NOT DO THIS) < 1252753361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't it Eliot Hird? < 1252753372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I misremember? < 1252753372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's too incorrect to annoy me, somehow < 1252753381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah it is Elliot Hird then? < 1252753393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or was it Elliot Hurd? < 1252753396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, AnMaster. Whatever you say. < 1252753410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear it's Ellio Turd. < 1252753416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252753446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jul 19 22:24:43 Defining Features of the Welsh, by Elliott Hird < 1252753451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found the correct spelling in logs < 1252753454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1252753475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you were joking, right? < 1252753486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about? < 1252753490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not knowing my name < 1252753495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I wonder what the heck the context was there < 1252753497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1252753522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sex with sheep < 1252753523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usual < 1252753525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also lack of vowels < 1252753530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common staples of #esoteric both < 1252753540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it stables? I don't actually know < 1252753569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I know it in general, but not the exact spelling. If you had a normal name like Ekblom or Svensson or Östergren it would have been easier :P < 1252753588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name is actually ingvar kamprad < 1252753589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story < 1252753600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kamprad isn't very common in Sweden either. < 1252753647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people usually just call me random swedish words in all-capitals though. < 1252753649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Especially "Svensson" is the Swedish equivalent of "Smith" < 1252753676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the command to grab myself some latest cfunge? < 1252753696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm lets see.. < 1252753711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news: gcc 3 here seems to not warn on static < 1252753721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the SCKE/SOCK problem might not exist! < 1252753729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bzr branch lp:cfunge < 1252753730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1252753752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I changed to use launchpad nowdays < 1252753765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creepy vendor support there :-P < 1252753779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that seems to be working < 1252753786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, question of not having my own server any more, and if I should go for launchpad of sf.net < 1252753788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1252753805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or < 1252753807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1252753809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Habit. < 1252753812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed < 1252753848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see that use.perl.org blog thing where a Perlist was confused why anyone would choose GitHub over Sourceforge, pointing out that Sourceforge did all the same things? < 1252753853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, it seems that the lp branch was still set as mirror of rage, thus being broken now < 1252753860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm convinced some people actually can't see UIs < 1252753867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, physically can't take note of them < 1252753875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me when you branched so I can convert it to hosted branch without breaking your branching of it < 1252753880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I branched it, yes. < 1252753883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252753893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I just rebranch? It only took a second or two. < 1252753899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. 15-30. < 1252753901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. < 1252753940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs notepad++. It'll do for now patching up cfunge. < 1252753954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calibri's italic is very nice. I say this because /mes are displaying in it. < 1252753965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the properly cursive f and everything. < 1252754004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1252754005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252754008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1252754075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11 Should I just rebranch? It only took a second or two. < 1252754077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11 Well. 15-30. < 1252754079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11 Still. < 1252754137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION messes around with lp to change it to hosted branch < 1252754151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so atm I would recommend against it, since I'm navigating the UI maze < 1252754209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION obliterates notepad++ for sucking < 1252754238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about using emacs in cygwin? < 1252754274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda want something I can use right away, and emacs' superbar plays hell with window managers IME < 1252754284 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252754292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, superbar? < 1252754299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the mode line you are referring to? < 1252754303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the line below it < 1252754309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs' docked-to-the-left-or-wherever file tree thing. < 1252754315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For opening other files in whatever you're working on. < 1252754321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that, right. < 1252754322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x superbar. < 1252754344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not available here it seems < 1252754352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get no match < 1252754359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet I think I have seen it < 1252754369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pnotepad.org/ ;; Oh, this looks acceptable < 1252754377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has syntax highlighting, a file tree and presumably auto indentation < 1252754380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will do for now < 1252754427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indention in cfunge is one tab per level, and space to adjust (that is, like when you line up with parenthesis above when you break a long line) < 1252754449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll follow whatever awful bloated coding style you use. :) < 1252754452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astyle --indent-preprocessor --indent-namespaces --indent-labels --one-line=keep-statements --indent=tab=4 --max-instatement-indent=40 --brackets=linux --min-conditional-indent=1 --unpad=paren --indent-switches --pad=oper "$@" < 1252754455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mostly that < 1252754468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm not about to program myself with an astyle command line... < 1252754472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that messes up a few times, so there are some corrections < 1252754489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it seems to dislike C99 structs with .foo in them < 1252754560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I branch now? < 1252754626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there seems to be an issue, I'm going to ask in #launchpad, but since you already branched I thought? < 1252754637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it work if I use that thing? < 1252754660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well think so, oh it is just update delay < 1252754683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, launchpad may take a few minutes to reflect new revisions being pushed < 1252754685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Files won't be added if I don't explicitly add them, right? < 1252754687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache stuff and such < 1252754698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just I made a cfunge.pnproj file to view the file tree. < 1252754698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, depends on what you mean with "add" < 1252754703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To bzr < 1252754705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add in the git sense or add in the normal sense < 1252754713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where normal is svn, hg and so on < 1252754734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal sense < 1252754735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unversioned files won't be auto-added < 1252754741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good < 1252754757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then, attempt one: build it straight < 1252754766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what sort of crappy VCS would auto-add unversioned files? < 1252754766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, forgot to install make < 1252754772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252754774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A crappy one like bzr? :P < 1252754785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, that was just disproved. :P < 1252754814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, cygwin or something has set my mosue pointer to the ugly, unsmoothed windows xp style one < 1252754842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixes < 1252754857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it persisted after cygwin closed? < 1252754867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what did it, really < 1252754868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just guessing < 1252754877 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252754884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1252754900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1252755023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, ccmake starts! :-P < 1252755035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could use just cmake you know. < 1252755038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: context: I'm trying to compile cfunge with Cygwin with patches, ingenuity, evil < 1252755049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no clue why ehird is doing this < 1252755053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but I want to see the variables in case I need to change them < 1252755069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's a pretty good followup to my line < 1252755071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1252755072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, a bit harder to remember what ones to change otherwise < 1252755074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:30 [INFO] 1 matches for “an”: [AnMaster: ] < 1252755076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice bug there < 1252755079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ambiguity of 1 < 1252755083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: reminds me of when I tried to run CLC-INTERCAL under DJGPP < 1252755088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :52% < 1252755089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " 11:30 [INFO] 1 matches for “an”: [AnMaster: ]" <-- ? < 1252755092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :57% < 1252755096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh chatzilla? < 1252755096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error! < 1252755099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end I gave up, it was too hard to figure out where to change line endings < 1252755099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those were in realtime) < 1252755103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's how slow it is) < 1252755108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1252755109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh what error? < 1252755126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMake Error at cmake/modules/CfungeRequireFunction.cmake:35 (message): < 1252755128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Your system seems to be missing the function "getaddrinfo" which is < 1252755130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : required by cfunge. < 1252755132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1252755132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally < 1252755133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1252755142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, time to do my first patching < 1252755147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first thing, get the getaddrinfo lib in place < 1252755149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will need to be changed to check for it conditionally and use the alternative one otherwise < 1252755153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second thing, kill myself before learning how to make a cmake file < 1252755155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is this from gnulib? < 1252755160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252755174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sra.co.jp/people/m-kasahr/getaddrinfo/ < 1252755175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I used gnulib code before btw < 1252755191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but this thing is portable, which is good < 1252755195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have to check for cygwin here < 1252755197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=gnulib.git;a=blob_plain;f=modules/getaddrinfo < 1252755200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not having getaddrinfo < 1252755212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1252755213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because that one's probably gnucrap and I doubt it works on Windows :-P < 1252755219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is too autotools tieed < 1252755221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tied* < 1252755229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :told you, gnucrap < 1252755247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, this should go in lib/getaddrinfo if I know the structure right? < 1252755266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it contains #ifdef _WIN32 though < 1252755276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does < 1252755279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep < 1252755285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the gnulib getaddrinfo < 1252755288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1252755289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=gnulib.git;a=blob_plain;f=lib/getaddrinfo.c < 1252755292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.sv.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=gnulib.git;a=blob_plain;f=lib/gai_strerror.c < 1252755305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but it is quite tied into automess < 1252755314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh some BeOS stuff in there too < 1252755321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look pretty much the same, except one of them is unreadable because it uses the gnu coding standard < 1252755333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't think the .jp getaddrinfo has any platform checks < 1252755355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: should I keep getaddrinfo's ./configure and stuff in there even though it's not used? < 1252755357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH THE FONT < 1252755376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can just -DUSE_PTHREAD when compiling it to an .o then link that in, so there's not much need for anything.) < 1252755381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah, but license should be placed somewhere or such < 1252755381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font on what? < 1252755391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sra.co.jp/people/m-kasahr/getaddrinfo/ < 1252755395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll keep it so it's a pristine package; probably better for the license < 1252755396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the double width thingy < 1252755404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1252755405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sra.co.jp/people/m-kasahr/getaddrinfo/index.css < 1252755408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame your browser < 1252755417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, firefox that is < 1252755423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1252755424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1252755427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense then < 1252755479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the gnu one does look simpler to me < 1252755484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't suppose CFUNGE_REQUIRE_FUNCTION has any sort of else clause? < 1252755505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is another macro for when it optional. let me check the name < 1252755519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION < 1252755523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252755526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do tests on it < 1252755535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the only files needed in the non-gnu version is getaddrinfo.{c,h} < 1252755537 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252755538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION(clock_gettime) < 1252755538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_clock_gettime) < 1252755539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are < 1252755542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is done there < 1252755543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah < 1252755588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you will need to do some conditional adding on "add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES})" to include those extra files optionally < 1252755589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is there a way to say "if we don't have any of these" other than a bunch of checks then NOT foo OR NOT bar? < 1252755591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1252755605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: is there a way to say "if we don't have any of these" other than a bunch of checks then NOT foo OR NOT bar? <-- clarify? < 1252755614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter < 1252755623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_REQUIRE_MULTIPLE_INCLUDES("sys/types.h;netinet/tcp.h" "netinet/tcp.h") < 1252755625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that? < 1252755644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where should I put the < 1252755646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION(getaddrinfo) < 1252755647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION(freeaddrinfo) < 1252755649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then adding logic stuff? < 1252755651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the "Optional" section? < 1252755651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not there no < 1252755653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Optional < 1252755659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you mean like that < 1252755665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., after the Existance of various functions section < 1252755669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's Existence < 1252755679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere there < 1252755690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok will fix that typo < 1252755755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pushed fix < 1252755793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to give the whole clause in the endif part? < 1252755795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so verbose and stuff. < 1252755809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep. cmake isn't perfect either < 1252755816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, much better than autoconf < 1252755834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, this thing is basically a shell script with worse syntax. < 1252755841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generating a config.mk < 1252755843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252755857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:39 ehird, you will need to do some conditional adding on "add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES})" to include those extra files optionally < 1252755860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, better syntax than autoconf thoughg < 1252755864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I need to find out how to append to variables, huh < 1252755866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tough* < 1252755870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1252755882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or set the variable to empty if the extra sources aren't needed < 1252755899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES} ${CFUNGE_OPTIONAL_SOURCES}) should work I think < 1252755902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried it < 1252755907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the optional ones could vary < 1252755918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know how to set variablse :-P < 1252755920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*variables < 1252755944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, look at the definitions of the macros < 1252755954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cmake/modules/* < 1252755967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_HAVE_${_name} true PARENT_SCOPE) < 1252755968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1252755977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this is special in a macro < 1252755983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't need the parent scope stuff < 1252755993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor building the variable name dynamically < 1252756037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about to define a cpp thing for the program? < 1252756044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we need to include getaddrinfo.h < 1252756052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, also add -Ilib/getaddrinfo < 1252756055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean, define a -Dfoo kind of thing? < 1252756057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such complicated things :-P < 1252756059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah < 1252756071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_definitions(-Dfoo) < 1252756100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as for the -I stuff: no, use ../../ or such rather < 1252756109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugly, but okay. < 1252756110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is less likely to break stuff with system headers < 1252756124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I remember that last time I tried on windows I had a header name collision < 1252756126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, do I have to do ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/../lib/getaddrinfo in the CMakeLists.txt? < 1252756128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot for what file < 1252756131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or will lib/getaddrinfo work < 1252756135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For adding a source file < 1252756154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would use a FILE like I do for the other ones < 1252756168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A FILE? < 1252756173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE(GLOB CFUNGE__OPTIONAL_SOURCES RELATIVE ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR} lib/getaddrinfo/*) < 1252756178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that handles the paths correctly < 1252756182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, it's only one .c. < 1252756182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252756184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE(GLOB CFUNGE__OPTIONAL_SOURCES RELATIVE ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR} lib/getaddrinfo/*.) < 1252756186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE(GLOB CFUNGE__OPTIONAL_SOURCES RELATIVE ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR} lib/getaddrinfo/*.c) < 1252756186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1252756191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only one file < 1252756193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah hm < 1252756194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest are tests and stuff < 1252756200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would need to be relative the source dir < 1252756205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and an implementation of memset for no adequately explained reason < 1252756226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, memset implementation? heh < 1252756237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer using system defined memset in general < 1252756243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't use it or anything < 1252756245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just there < 1252756247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1252756266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, in case you wanted one < 1252756270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would definitely strip down the un-needed files, and provide a README in there pointing to the source and describing the changes < 1252756285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then it's not really a lib, is it? < 1252756286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is include the .c/.h and LICENSE < 1252756290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's a NEWS file and stuff. < 1252756294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, the other libs are stripped down too < 1252756304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The license is in the README < 1252756317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok. Try to apply some common sense? < 1252756328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, fine, I'll strip it down < 1252756339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just feels disrespectful to lob off their documentation < 1252756364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is BSD 2 clause or? < 1252756376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 clause < 1252756386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can't say "cfunge! Now with added getaddrinfo for retarded operating systems!" < 1252756390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Buy it today!" < 1252756422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: presumably, if you're messing with getaddrinfo it means that the core works but some of the fingerprints don't? < 1252756437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok, see the top COPYING file? I think it should possibly be appended in there like is done for libghthash and genx < 1252756438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It refuses to even configure without getaddrinfo. < 1252756442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and ccbi < 1252756454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libghthash has a COPYING. < 1252756469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep as well, just noticed the duplication < 1252756471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why not just roll your own build system? < 1252756472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252756483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because my patches wouldn't be accepted. < 1252756486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because he want to send the patches upstream I think < 1252756497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, what on earth made you do this? < 1252756503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to just replace the whole thing with a shell script that outputs a config.mk which is included by a simple Makefile, but I doubt that'd be accepted < 1252756529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A stubborn refusal to accept the status quo opinion that you can write a program so POSIX, the laws of physics dictate that Windows can't run it < 1252756562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I hate to bring up the "Windows is TC" argument, so I won't < 1252756566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because I'm not sure if it works < 1252756571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never claimed that. I only said I'm not willing to invest time in getting it running on windows < 1252756580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't want to mess up with too much #ifdef < 1252756583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What I said is known as a ``joke''. < 1252756590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen such ifdef rich portable code < 1252756593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shush you :P < 1252756594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you fail at smartquotes < 1252756596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifdef-rich* < 1252756604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thinking of NetHack? < 1252756605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *faggot quotes (Don't hate me. This is their actual name.) < 1252756613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least, as far as a large variety of people are concerned.) < 1252756614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mosaic too < 1252756619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are a form of ``emphasis''. < 1252756627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was filled with VAX specific ifdefs < 1252756628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ``GNU Project'' likes them. < 1252756638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and they're used by default by `m4' < 1252756641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not for emphasis < 1252756646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for actual quoting < 1252756650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1252756655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION holds off on minimalising the getaddrinfo library for later < 1252756657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, IIRC WinHlp32 used them too for its internal programming language < 1252756660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then what about the [] stuff that automess likes? < 1252756667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think was non-TC due to lack of infinite memory, but would otherwise have been TC < 1252756671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they're configurable < 1252756674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252756681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere near the start would be changequote(`[',`]') < 1252756688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES} ${CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES}) < 1252756690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a sane way of doing it? < 1252756706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well if you set CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES to empty in case those aren't used < 1252756716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it will error if unset < 1252756719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason that autotools changes the quotes is that both ` and ' are rather common in shell-script, and they don't even balance each other! < 1252756722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES) before checking, yes. < 1252756727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252756754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also -DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY; do you want me to add a namespace or ten to that? < 1252756758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, adding the _Exit() vs. _exit() would be trivial, could do that here myself < 1252756770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of this is trivial < 1252756786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, except the SOCK/SCKE bit < 1252756804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get a warning about static with gcc 3 and a test file. < 1252756814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it's a problem with the gcc 4 packages or smething. < 1252756814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and does cygwin define __WIN32__? < 1252756815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1252756821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know. < 1252756822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, src/instructions/sysinfo.c needs changing < 1252756827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll see. < 1252756834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:59 I also -DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY; do you want me to add a namespace or ten to that? < 1252756835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it define a dummy environ in that case. < 1252756837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is: < 1252756841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define USE_PTHREADS < 1252756845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include .../.../.sdf.sdfsdfskf < 1252756847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#undef USE_PTHREADS < 1252756852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both source files acceptable? < 1252756895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 11:59 I also -DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY; do you want me to add a namespace or ten to that? <-- can't see how it would collide? and would be easy to change afterwards < 1252756903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why pthreads? < 1252756912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't thread-safe unless you let it use pthreads. < 1252756916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume cfunge is threaded somewhere. < 1252756920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't use threads < 1252756930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then. < 1252756942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't think ATHR is implemented in cfunge < 1252756950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, correct < 1252756955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "../../../lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.h" < 1252756958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seven billion ../s < 1252756959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep < 1252756995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, time for cmake round 2: Electric Boogaloo, or, see how much I broke things. < 1252757022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call me back in an hour when it's finished the first configuration step :P < 1252757028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's going, so I guess I didn't break it too horribly. < 1252757031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure that even if you get it to link, that it will actually run < 1252757036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run correctly < 1252757046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not < 1252757056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge can run emacs and stuff < 1252757061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on a ported X11 < 1252757065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge runs emacs? XD < 1252757069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1252757071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin. < 1252757075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it shouldn't be able to handle a puny befunge interpreter. < 1252757077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although... slowly... < 1252757080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe. < 1252757082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending. < 1252757086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the inline asm will work. < 1252757110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the inline asm is used for x86_64, I only wrote intrinsics using code for 32-bit x86 < 1252757130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin FAQ < 1252757132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as we know no one is working on a native 64 bit version of Cygwin. < 1252757133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well bugger :P < 1252757153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot, first cmake stage finished < 1252757153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you put 64-bit asm in an otherwise 32-bit program? < 1252757156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it works < 1252757158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far < 1252757159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1252757160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no. < 1252757162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm relatively sure you could do that with 32 and 16 < 1252757163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to switch into long mode < 1252757170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which completely changes everything < 1252757172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but at some point I might add 32-bit asm too. Or not. < 1252757176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if running in protected mode, at least < 1252757190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe you should be the cygwin maintainer of cfunge in the future! :D < 1252757193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amd64 was an excuse to make x86 slightly less crufty :P < 1252757201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bait 'n switch to no-legacy land < 1252757204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no legacy < 1252757212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure. can't be too hard < 1252757222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I'm quite liking windows 7 I should be up for it < 1252757223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was supposed to be a joke < 1252757237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you was supposed to go "gaah" at or so < 1252757238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's #esoteric's motto, ais523? < 1252757244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never let a joke get in the way of a bad idea. < 1252757253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it isn't that < 1252757253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right forgot that < 1252757260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, I made that more snappy from what you originally said, but.) < 1252757264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's "WHO TOOK THE KONAMI CODE OUT OF THE TOPIC?" < 1252757267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at one point I complained you and AnMaster were ruining a joke < 1252757273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while trying to figure out how it'd work in practice < 1252757276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you said something along the lines < 1252757276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1252757279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems more like #esoteric < 1252757302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm not going to try installing this time, btw < 1252757305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I'd have to fix up the install path < 1252757310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1252757311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, installing isn't something I do very often either < 1252757318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it will do -O3, it seems < 1252757321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I test it before each release < 1252757324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since that's what release has < 1252757330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, those are only defaults < 1252757333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so funny seeing paths like "/usr/bin/strip.exe" < 1252757334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change them as needed < 1252757344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to add -march= to the release ones for example < 1252757350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE_64BIT is on; better turn that off. < 1252757357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that just changes cell size < 1252757375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fine, for speed you definitely want 32-bit cells on 32-bit system < 1252757376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 32-bit will be faster with a 32-bit compile. < 1252757385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is faster even on x86_64 < 1252757389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to cache mostl < 1252757391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly* < 1252757393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Mine will totally be faster because Windows just puts shit in the kernel to improve speed. < 1252757399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GUI's in the kernel because of that reason. :P < 1252757410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mycology will hit that fork() at least two times < 1252757412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI < 1252757417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should work fine. < 1252757434 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252757434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I think some #defines in the code for y will need changing < 1252757438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, Makefile generated < 1252757441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to make < 1252757450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: First objective is getting it to build < 1252757451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, would you say the path separator should be \ or / under cygwin? < 1252757458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's /usr/bin and stuff < 1252757464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c:\foo isn't, like, official < 1252757469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're meant to do /cygdrive/c/foo < 1252757473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, / for sure < 1252757487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, depending on what cygwin defines it might need some changing then < 1252757497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, this again; cfunge balks because Cygwin doesn't claim that its mmap and regexp are meticulously POSIX-compliant < 1252757501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef __WIN32__ < 1252757501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define PUSH_REQ_6(m_pushstack) \ < 1252757501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stack_push((m_pushstack), (funge_cell)'\\') < 1252757501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else < 1252757501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define PUSH_REQ_6(m_pushstack) \ < 1252757502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stack_push((m_pushstack), (funge_cell)'/') < 1252757504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1252757506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I have there atm < 1252757507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a crime henious enough of an #error < 1252757512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to cfunge < 1252757521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like a very silly check to me < 1252757529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I have been considering a better way to check that < 1252757541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since openbsd has problems in that area too < 1252757557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes there are some implicit declaration warnings in genx, as well as cast-discarding-qualifier warnings < 1252757569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in genx stringbuffer, implicit declarations and nested extern declarations < 1252757570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so they will probably change in the soon future in any case < 1252757576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in genx stringbuffer, implicit declarations and nested extern declarations <-- wait? < 1252757578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other misc stuff < 1252757582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a missing "and" there < 1252757585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1252757588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252757596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some implicit decls in cfunge < 1252757598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like srandom() < 1252757605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ouch this might be bad < 1252757608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what should I do < 1252757610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|| __CYGWIN__? < 1252757622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the posix checks < 1252757625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because that just means... that it is called without showing up in header < 1252757631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with /* FIXME: hack */ < 1252757635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but the linker didn't complain last time < 1252757639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll just be in another header file < 1252757645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, cygwin uses newlib < 1252757645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fine atm, because they are expected to go away soon < 1252757652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fyi < 1252757668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, issue is if that implicit decl turns out like: foo(int, char*) when it is really foo(long, char*) < 1252757669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1252757675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1252757676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or long long < 1252757677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't too many < 1252757684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm < 1252757692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a rule about not going over 80cols? < 1252757705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no hard rule, but I try to keep it not too wide < 1252757707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1252757708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungespace_set(value, vector_create_ref(position->x + offset->x, position->y + offset->y)); < 1252757710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :96 cols < 1252757717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, assuming 4-space tabs, I guess < 1252757720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what my editor's default is < 1252757726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hard tabs) < 1252757742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before doing anything, I'll commit my getaddrinfo fix < 1252757749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I tell bzr who I am? Simple command or? < 1252757753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I try to break lines at 80 if it will not end up looking even worese < 1252757754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse* < 1252757755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1252757770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, as long as I don't end up scrolling sideways in my own editor :P < 1252757771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on an #if line directly after the hackish clause < 1252757778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, kinda hard to break up < 1252757779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How do I tell bzr who I am? Simple command or? < 1252757785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you mean for commits? < 1252757789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252757792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr help whoami < 1252757795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see syntax < 1252757804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yep, pretty simple < 1252757809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you might want to nick the branch too < 1252757814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to bzr nick cfunge-ehird or so < 1252757819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge-cygwin < 1252757825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that works too < 1252757830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr nick cfunge-cygwin < 1252757839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default it is same as directory name < 1252757841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, I wish the scrollbar worked in cmd.exe < 1252757847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er < 1252757849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't= < 1252757849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrollwheel < 1252757851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252757852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The scrollbar works fine if you drag it < 1252757861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cygwin provides rxvt and such < 1252757875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that breaks on native windows programs and stuff, I think < 1252757881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, cmd.exe is mostly fine < 1252757881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm probably < 1252757884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using bash in it of course < 1252757922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bzr commit" now? < 1252757942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway implict decls are kind of bad. Kind of bad as in "don't ever commit that". Maybe falling back on rand/srand or such could work < 1252757957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll commit it because it's temporary work < 1252757961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bzr ci -m "log message goes here, or it opens a editor for you" < 1252757966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine-grained commits are nice for, you know, reverting < 1252757967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, commit works too < 1252757972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ci is shorter < 1252757980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed < 1252758020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, there is bzr send, but I doubt you can get that working under windows < 1252758029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do? < 1252758031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is cygwin remember < 1252758034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has sshd and all kinds of stuff < 1252758034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, send commits by mail < 1252758041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should work fine < 1252758053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you have a mail client and such set up? < 1252758057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First commit, ba-za-za-done! < 1252758061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't it use sendmail? < 1252758072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure, I never tried it < 1252758105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant's wrong; it doesn't define cygwin < 1252758128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: /nobody/ can use sendmail < 1252758130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err __CYWIN__ with two _? < 1252758143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sendmail(1) is trivial < 1252758147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I could, but I prefer qmail < 1252758155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Isn't that what it is? < 1252758157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fails with one _ too, anyway < 1252758169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec for a gcc command to list all predefined defines < 1252758185 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252758190 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1252758193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo | gcc -dM -E - < 1252758211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will list all predefined ones on stdout < 1252758216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build < 1252758218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo | gcc -DM -E - < 1252758220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 "" < 1252758222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 "" < 1252758223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 "" < 1252758225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252758225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 "" < 1252758226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build < 1252758228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1252758229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR WILL IT < 1252758231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what gcc version < 1252758233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo | gcc -dM -E - | wc -l < 1252758233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128 < 1252758237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.4.4 < 1252758242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh might be too old < 1252758247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, at least it doesn't complain about static" Edition < 1252758268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, works on 3.4.6 here, don't have any older < 1252758270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, it has gdc, apparently < 1252758296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-3.4.6 gcc-4.1.2 gcc-4.3.2 are the ones I have according to tab completion < 1252758313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1252758316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__CYGWIN__ expands to 1 < 1252758317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 4.3.3 on my laptop < 1252758319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I do cpp /dev/stdin < 1252758326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1252758330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok, then it should be defined < 1252758333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if !defined(_POSIX_MAPPED_FILES) || (_POSIX_MAPPED_FILES < 1) || __CYGWIN__ /* hack */ < 1252758335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# error "cfunge needs a working mmap(), which this system claims it lacks." < 1252758337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spot the error < 1252758339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that won't work < 1252758343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defined() < 1252758346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252758347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail < 1252758350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read it again < 1252758362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh backwards too < 1252758362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, of course it will; __CYGWIN__ expands to 1) < 1252758377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I use defined() instead? < 1252758379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!defined(__CYGWIN__) < 1252758381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work < 1252758382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1252758383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1252758384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kay < 1252758391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1252758392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't < 1252758400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sis < 1252758402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did < 1252758404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*did < 1252758409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if (!defined(_POSIX_MAPPED_FILES) || (_POSIX_MAPPED_FILES < 1)) && !defined(__CYGWIN__) < 1252758414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it will break everywhere else < 1252758415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moar implicit decl + nested decl < 1252758416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252758418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cast warnings < 1252758419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1252758422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252758423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I did < 1252758426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252758433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to do the same to REXP.c < 1252758440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1252758445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# error "cfunge needs POSIX regular expressions, which this system claims it doesn't have." < 1252758447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252758455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I don't check that in cmakelists I think hm < 1252758456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1252758457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I? < 1252758461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR DO YOU < 1252758468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already said that < 1252758473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway seems I do < 1252758479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_REQUIRE_FUNCTION(regcomp) < 1252758483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 1%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/REXP/REXP.c.o < 1252758485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 3%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/ROMA/ROMA.c.o < 1252758487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 5%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o < 1252758488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 7%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SOCK/SOCK.c.o < 1252758490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 9%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/STRN/STRN.c.o < 1252758491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 11%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SUBR/SUBR.c.o < 1252758492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252758493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1252758493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 13%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/TERM/TERM.c.o < 1252758494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam < 1252758494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 15%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/TIME/TIME.c.o < 1252758496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 17%] Building C object CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/TOYS/TOYS.c.o < 1252758497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple files with no warnings < 1252758499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a true beauty < 1252758501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's something I have not yet seen in this compile :P < 1252758504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252758513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the good ol' M_PI undeclared < 1252758517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tell me what your M_PI is? < 1252758523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit < 1252758525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well POSIX declares it as XSI. < 1252758526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: M_PI isn't standard AFAIK < 1252758531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It isn't < 1252758536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, POSIX 2008 mentions it here < 1252758541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of XSI < 1252758542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be on the header files back on DOS, though < 1252758544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math.h, to be precise < 1252758552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes it should be in math.h < 1252758552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably not a header file you can legally put it in < 1252758561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... read what I said < 1252758561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a feature test macro, or something similar < 1252758562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yo, pi plz < 1252758594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define M_PI 3.14159265358979323846 /* pi */ < 1252758608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copied from math.h < 1252758618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the comment there < 1252758619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is whatever license glibc uses < 1252758627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define M_PI 3.14159265358979323846 /* pi */ < 1252758627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define M_PI_2 1.57079632679489661923 /* pi/2 */ < 1252758627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# define M_PI_4 0.78539816339744830962 /* pi/4 */ < 1252758629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is that too < 1252758629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be a horrible pirate < 1252758636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And COMPLETELY IGNORE their copyright on pi! < 1252758647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I think the copyright is the formatting here :P < 1252758648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: take the value, and write the rest of the line from scratch < 1252758653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did :P < 1252758666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I refuse to add the explanatory /* pi */ comment! < 1252758671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("explanatory") < 1252758672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, include #ifndef M_PI < 1252758676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case it is defined < 1252758677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1252758679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, we're on to linking < 1252758694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/PERL/PERL.c.o:PERL.c:(.text+0x1b9): undef < 1252758696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ined reference to `__Exit' < 1252758698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0x65): undefi < 1252758699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway POSIX.1-2008 declares M_PI on page 286 < 1252758699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_getaddrinfo' < 1252758701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0xa4): undefi < 1252758702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_freeaddrinfo' < 1252758704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy peasy < 1252758706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess including it in sources doesn't link its object? < 1252758714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9518 XSI M_PI Value of π < 1252758714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9519 XSI M_PI_2 Value of π /2 < 1252758714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9520 XSI M_PI_4 Value of π /4 < 1252758714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9521 XSI M_1_PI Value of 1/π < 1252758714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9522 XSI M_2_PI Value of 2/π < 1252758718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are line numbers < 1252758724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for easy reference < 1252758728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait < 1252758730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't define a FILE < 1252758731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing < 1252758736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yep, generally speaking, unless they're in one of the standard libraries < 1252758747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm talking about cmake < 1252758749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stfu :P < 1252758764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so yes M_PI *is* standard < 1252758768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Is there a FILE(NOGLOBBINGORANYTHING or whatever? < 1252758778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, think so. man cmake? < 1252758793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man works. That's a nice surprise. < 1252758805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longest manual EVAR < 1252758808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or rather, you don't need FILE if it is one file, just remember it must be relative < 1252758814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop, bash one is longer iirc < 1252758821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess < 1252758822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is the non-split zsh one < 1252758825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c) < 1252758826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be < 1252758828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc one is pretty long too < 1252758833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/../lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c) < 1252758840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not the .. there < 1252758844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1252758845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR} is the top one < 1252758854 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252758873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reconfigures < 1252758915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I make an installer for this I could get you to do the unthinkable embarrassment and put a windows binary up for download :-P < 1252758935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting work ethic here, where my half-hearted desire to see you squirm is making me improve your software < 1252758939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb. mom shouted < 1252758950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ARE YOU ASSOCIATING WITH CYGWIN SCOUNDRELS?" < 1252758958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THEY'RE NOT PURE BLOODED, AN!" < 1252758967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AnMaster's name: totally An Master.) < 1252759022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, make time. < 1252759066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, same error < 1252759075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's just in SCKE, not SOCK < 1252759078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix the _Exit thing first < 1252759130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1252759135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, don to two errors. < 1252759145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0x65): undefi < 1252759147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, remembers small commits < 1252759147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_getaddrinfo' < 1252759149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0xa4): undefi < 1252759150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_freeaddrinfo' < 1252759160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, right; I'll revert one change < 1252759162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, conditional include header there too I guess < 1252759163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does SOCK use getaddrinfo? < 1252759183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, grep? It would take you equal time to me to find out < 1252759202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is no < 1252759206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I commit only some files? < 1252759206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1252759218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bzr ci foo.c bar.c -m "message here" < 1252759223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1252759232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would exclude quux.c < 1252759295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, note that cd foo/; bzr ci, will commit stuff in bar/ too by default, ci/diff/log and so on tend to be centered on tree root by default, unless you do something like bzr diff . < 1252759296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1252759300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to indicate current directory < 1252759336 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252759344 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252759360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anything else? oh btw for _Exit vs. _exit < 1252759368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to add any define in cmake < 1252759371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checks for them < 1252759377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#ifndef _Exit < 1252759379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+# define _Exit _exit /* This probably works */ < 1252759379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the check macro adds defines by default < 1252759381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+#endif < 1252759382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure everything has _exit < 1252759383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm or that I guess < 1252759385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it? < 1252759393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even Windows. < 1252759516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, when it comes to warnings, the implicit ones needs to be fixed at least < 1252759519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, only one thing to go: fix the seeming unlinkingness of getaddrinfo/freeaddrinfo. < 1252759529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure, but it'll still work. < 1252759547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it might by pure chance, see what I said about prototypes first time you mentioned this < 1252759552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0x65): undefi < 1252759554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_getaddrinfo' < 1252759556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMakeFiles/cfunge.dir/src/fingerprints/SCKE/SCKE.c.o:SCKE.c:(.text+0xa4): undefi < 1252759558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ned reference to `_freeaddrinfo' < 1252759561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet the relevant file is in the executable thingy. < 1252759561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252759573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, what is the _ doing there? < 1252759576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows. < 1252759583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything gets prefixed by a _. < 1252759588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1252759650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure those are included? try in ccmake to turn on CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE < 1252759656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in the advanced section < 1252759661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will make the commands be printed < 1252759670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can see if the link command looks sane < 1252759762 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252759820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders asking the Windows developer on IAmA about the most efficient way to implement fork() :-P < 1252759832 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252759851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, verbose making go. < 1252759856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy fuck you have a lot of -W options. < 1252759899 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252759950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://pastie.org/614537.txt?key=zovi8xmxwmc4mlpaow have fun with the wall of text :P < 1252760026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("libcfunge.dll.a") < 1252760037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1252760048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lol) < 1252760057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too hard to read < 1252760075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what was the file that handled getaddrinfo again? < 1252760085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c < 1252760086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no getaddrinfo mentioned in there < 1252760092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it seems something went wrong < 1252760100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES) < 1252760102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION(getaddrinfo) < 1252760104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUNGE_CHECK_FUNCTION(freeaddrinfo) < 1252760105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo OR NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo) < 1252760107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c) < 1252760108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : add_definitions(-DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY) < 1252760110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo OR NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo) < 1252760112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1252760114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES} ${CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES}) < 1252760122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "(NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo OR NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo)" < try only the first part < 1252760130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the system only has one? < 1252760139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well just try it atm to see if that was the issue < 1252760142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll parenthesize it < 1252760145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember to change endif < 1252760147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet the NOT is getting the rest of it < 1252760170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, suspect that too < 1252760170 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252760203 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252760312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it configurd. < 1252760314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*configured < 1252760322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like compiling KDE :P < 1252760390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same fuckin' error < 1252760408 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252760413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Should I just remove the if and do it unconditionally? < 1252760414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to make sure < 1252760433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, worth a tryoe < 1252760442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tryoe: Try + typo < 1252760444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trye* < 1252760446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try* < 1252760448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ Aloe < 1252760452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252760458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :levenshtein correction < 1252760461 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.181.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252760463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one distance at a time < 1252760469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1252760524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : + Aloe <-- ? < 1252760536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try + typo = tryo < 1252760543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I needed an oe from somewhere < 1252760547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252760616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, configured. < 1252760624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I started when I said "levenshtien correction".) < 1252760631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's right, 3 minutes to get from 0% to 100%. < 1252760666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should download one of those Expose-for-Windows things; Windows-Tab is useless. < 1252760701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Guess whether the error differs or not < 1252760703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bingo < 1252760721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, < 1252760732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is FILE(GLOB FOO RELATIVE BAR BAZ*QUUX) < 1252760734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, < 1252760749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = glob(bar/baz*quux) < 1252760750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252760826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oe < 1252760828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or < 1252760936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1252760938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1252760942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I know! < 1252760944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_executable(cfunge ${CFUNGE_SOURCES} ${CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES}) < 1252760948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That third argument isn't more sources < 1252760950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something else, I bet < 1252760955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh could be. < 1252760957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I concatenate the two, then? Or is it not that? < 1252760957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check man page < 1252760963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. It's impossible to search < 1252760976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There < 1252760980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1252760980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't know how to search cmake? < 1252760981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252760982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man page < 1252760988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use / < 1252760990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : add_executable( [WIN32] [MACOSX_BUNDLE] [EXCLUDE_FROM_ALL] < 1252760991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : source1 source2 ... sourceN) < 1252760992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean < 1252760992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1252760993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1252760995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1252760997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252760997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it should work < 1252761018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that win7 had something Expose-like called "Aero Peek", but apparently that's some other thing entirely. < 1252761021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a halt_and_prompt_the_user_for_confirmation_after_printing? < 1252761033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Windows-Tab gives each window in front of each other, 3D-style. < 1252761048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just different enough from Expose to be not a ripoff and useless. < 1252761049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they stole that from Compiz < 1252761057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly the same effect, and the same key combo too < 1252761058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I very much doubt that's the case < 1252761059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1252761063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was in Vista < 1252761064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, super-tab is scrolly < 1252761076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Compiz stole almost all of its effects from OS X and Vista < 1252761077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I think the windows version puts everything side-on so you can't see it < 1252761080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could make it an error message containing the thing, or use cmake instead of ccmake < 1252761086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, how do you error? < 1252761095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : message(FATAL_ERROR < 1252761095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Your system seems to be missing the header \"${_name}\" which is required by cfunge.") < 1252761098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is an example < 1252761106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm aware that it's blatantly stealing from OSX; I'm not sure about which way round it is compared to the Vista effects < 1252761128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I remember the 3d-window-stackery from Vista;re. but that "Aero Peek" is some sort of taskbar-preview-related featu < 1252761128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The minimize, restore effects are identical < 1252761135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the open window, close window ones < 1252761144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either Compiz stole them, or Microsoft enjoy legal deep shit < 1252761159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the minimize-restore effects are obvious < 1252761169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter; those 4 being identical is telling < 1252761172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean identical < 1252761174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm willing to believe that those ones could have been invented independently < 1252761174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixel-for-pixel < 1252761182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but when paired with the other two... < 1252761187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are totally nonobvious < 1252761199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does OSX do for those, by the way? < 1252761207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For opening and closing windows? < 1252761209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing. < 1252761218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such animations are useless eyecandy. < 1252761237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for minimize and restore it has useless eye candy too < 1252761238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an unresponsive system, it's useful to have an obvious way to notice when a window's opened < 1252761244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that method is the correct one, though < 1252761254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the fact that a new window shows up? < 1252761257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that enough? < 1252761269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not always, especially if you're staring at something else at the time < 1252761287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you are looking at something else, you wouldn't see animation either? < 1252761290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The window shadow should do that. < 1252761292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does anyone else find typical Windows machines impossibly slow to use just after they've booted < 1252761295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not how the human eye works < 1252761297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you have to get up and do something else < 1252761299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not Windows 7 < 1252761304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bogged down XP systems, yes < 1252761317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing boots up fast once the BIOS hands control < 1252761317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant something else = a book or so, so the monitor isn't in your view at all < 1252761319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hands over < 1252761321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1252761321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking Vista running Norton antivirus < 1252761330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Peripheral vision < 1252761331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, any luck with cmake? < 1252761339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the boot's fast; it's just unusable for about 10 minutes after it's booted < 1252761341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that only goes to ~180 degrees iirc < 1252761348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 7 is easier on the system than Vista, but what sort of specs has it got? < 1252761349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you do anything, and you can make a cup of coffee or whatever before it responds < 1252761353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The culprit is almost certainly Norton, btw < 1252761357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know, but I doubt they're good < 1252761366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I mentioned Norton because I thought it was probably responsibel < 1252761369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*responsible < 1252761377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows doesn't gracefully degrade; above the minimum hardware it works fine, below that it just crawls < 1252761378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, plus it isn't xray vision. *imagines big news paper in front of monitor :P < 1252761380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1252761381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's never middle ground with windows < 1252761384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*any middle < 1252761387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, that's interesting to know < 1252761388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Still working on it, btw < 1252761394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it's just my experience < 1252761397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limited, admittedly < 1252761399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tallies with mine, too < 1252761414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES is empty right after setting it unconditionally < 1252761420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you have to do something special to reset something? < 1252761422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I do < 1252761427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES) < 1252761428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1252761430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c) < 1252761452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252761456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Windows also decays a lot quicker than other OSs < 1252761465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, when it's not decayed, it's faster than other OSs < 1252761468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get OS decay-over-time at all < 1252761473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never tried setting it more than once, I would do an else there < 1252761475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to defy the typical rules of computer physics < 1252761481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's mainly Windows that does it < 1252761487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other systems do it, but are so slow you wouldn't notice it < 1252761498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't noticed any on this system, and it's never been reinstalled < 1252761500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., if you installed Debian 15 years ago, I doubt it'd still be working over all the upgrades < 1252761506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been upgraded continuously from Feisty < 1252761509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try removing the first set to see if anything changes < 1252761511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Alright < 1252761513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, Windows seems to decay even if not upgraded, somehow < 1252761516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just "else"? < 1252761534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, else (whole whopping condition again) < 1252761539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252761549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I thought about trying scons for my next C project < 1252761565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the other hand, from a user point of view, that is even more irritating < 1252761571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scons is verbose and silly in my experience < 1252761581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and ignores cflags and such by default < 1252761590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suggest you try writing a simple shell script that writes out a simple config.mk, which you include in a Makefile < 1252761592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is irritating when you need -m32 or such to compile something < 1252761595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you'll be surprised how cleanly and easily it works out < 1252761597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ no dependencise at all < 1252761600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dependencies < 1252761607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, readable/editable Makefiles < 1252761609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then I will have to handle deps between headers and c files myself < 1252761618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scons doesn't handle that afaik < 1252761621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it might < 1252761629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok, that is a blocker to me < 1252761632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: makedep < 1252761634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252761639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know about such tooks < 1252761640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tools* < 1252761640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc has a facility to do what makedep does < 1252761650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a few lines in a Makefile to have it included and regenerated automatically < 1252761668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, such a shell + make solution won't win any awards for extreme elegance, but the code will be compact, it'll be fast, and it won't have any dependencies. < 1252761683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shell scripts won't be fast under cygwin < 1252761691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scons does header-dependencies completely automatically, I think. < 1252761693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will be painful to use plain sh < 1252761694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So what? Everything uses ./configure < 1252761695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than bash < 1252761699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, use bash then < 1252761701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin has bash < 1252761707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but some systems might not < 1252761715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah interesting < 1252761718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, nobody cares about those systems :P < 1252761750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did it work with just setting that var once? < 1252761761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ((NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo) OR (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo)) < 1252761763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c) < 1252761765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : add_definitions(-DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY) < 1252761767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else ((NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo) OR (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo)) < 1252761768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES) < 1252761770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif ((NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_getaddrinfo) OR (NOT CFUNGE_HAVE_freeaddrinfo)) < 1252761771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :message(FATAL_ERROR "${CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES}") < 1252761773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no definition before < 1252761775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1252761776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still empty < 1252761777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes the conditional < 1252761779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1252761787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasal demons < 1252761791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame them < 1252761797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably flying out of my nose < 1252761799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :washing the windows api < 1252761873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOUCRES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c) < 1252761875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : add_definitions(-DUSE_GETADDRINFO_LIBRARY) < 1252761877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[comments] < 1252761879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :message(FATAL_ERROR "${CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURCES}") < 1252761882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what? < 1252761883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's empty < 1252761897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can not possibly explain this... < 1252761902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasal demosn! < 1252761904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*demons < 1252761922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I can in fact < 1252761928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1252761929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is easy once you read it carefully < 1252761934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try fixing the typo < 1252761937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/CR/RC/ < 1252761940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fuck. < 1252761943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone kill me. < 1252761956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, this is the problem with we programmers. < 1252761962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We instantly jump to mystics. < 1252761965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never considering the obvious. < 1252761978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try this again. < 1252761983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when I end up with something weird like that I tend to do copy and paste of variable names to see if there is a hidden typo I can't spot < 1252762090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck < 1252762092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CFUNGE_GETADDRINFO_SOURcES ${CFUNGE_SOURCE_DIR}/lib/getaddrinfo/getaddrinfo.c) < 1252762095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cmake case insensitive? < 1252762097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please say yes < 1252762105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252762107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't think so < 1252762107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just re-run it < 1252762116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1252762121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I think it is insensitive < 1252762135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, make sure you fix the typo in the if too if it was there < 1252762140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1252762148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and every place it may be used < 1252762154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait, what typo in the if? < 1252762162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed the one you s///d < 1252762169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the line I pasted < 1252762186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, I meant if you typoed the first set as well as the one inside? < 1252762188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sure < 1252762200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1252762206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an else now, anyway < 1252762210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :86% < 1252762215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well check that one inside the else < 1252762219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I started it on "I'll just re-run it") < 1252762227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just making sure you realize how damn slow process spawning is on Windows) < 1252762234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can do nothing about cygwin being slow < 1252762240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying :P < 1252762249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Chrome is so snappy, spawning a process on every tab and all. < 1252762255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, plus there is a way around it. A horrible way < 1252762261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user space processes using threads < 1252762265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a sane idea < 1252762292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not impossible < 1252762309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you think about that? < 1252762381 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.104.238.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252762391 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, and just at the crucial moment my internet blinks < 1252762397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1252762399 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1252762405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252762420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252762421 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.238.232 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm surprised Chrome is so snappy, spawning a process on every tab and all. < 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, plus there is a way around it. A horrible way < 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : user space processes using threads < 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : not a sane idea < 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but not impossible < 1252762423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, what do you think about that? < 1252762429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1252762431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Heh, and just at the crucial moment my internet blinks < 1252762435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else after that < 1252762440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was considering that < 1252762442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would lead to crappiness < 1252762447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed < 1252762448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, AnMaster: Bad news. < 1252762450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It linked, but < 1252762452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build < 1252762454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./cfunge.exe < 1252762455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FATAL: No file provided. < 1252762457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we unleashed a horror upon the world. < 1252762458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252762464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1252762465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is known as "cfunge.exe". < 1252762470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep horrible < 1252762474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge -h runs without problems < 1252762477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for binaries, I don't do linux binaries either < 1252762479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just source < 1252762492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to provide binaries, but stopped < 1252762496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah, but there's no single Linux binary format thingy < 1252762503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure there is, ELF < 1252762503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also this is a bitch to set up :P < 1252762504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway < 1252762509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shall I run an example? < 1252762513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. < 1252762514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.bf time! < 1252762519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as well as mycology < 1252762525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.bf runs < 1252762541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, need to test mycology, check env variables and path separator especially < 1252762543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Gasp; it takes around 0.1s total < 1252762549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the process overhead :P < 1252762549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does? < 1252762554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.bf < 1252762557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252762562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :count.b98 works < 1252762575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prime.bf works, time for wumpus < 1252762575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing unexpected if one of them works < 1252762580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it is < 1252762582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that would test input < 1252762585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freakin' thing is running on Windows < 1252762588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With only minimal patches < 1252762599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION falls into a pit < 1252762601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but what I expect is that mycology system info will break < 1252762604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should bundle Mycology. < 1252762606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1252762609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading it. < 1252762653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could pastebin the output, might be easiest, I'm used to looking at the output to see the expected or unexpected < 1252762695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tests/perl.b98 might be good to try too. And tests/sysexec.b98 < 1252762711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tests/testncrsterm.b98 too < 1252762715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you have a tests/ < 1252762730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well mostly stuff that mycology doesn't test. Sometimes output may be cryptic < 1252762742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are often comments in the files < 1252762746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl.b98 just sits there. < 1252762752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't type anything on the keyboard. < 1252762754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is perl installed? < 1252762759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in cygwin < 1252762760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I check, no. < 1252762762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix that. < 1252762768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm still shouldn't hang as such < 1252762771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1252762785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's _exit failing or something. < 1252762787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have to debug that < 1252762817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have no idea, I'll have to test under linux without perl in path < 1252762840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing stuff. < 1252762845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah wait, it is the test program that is broken without perl < 1252762849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endless reflect loop < 1252762868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought it'd be something like that. ^C worked. < 1252762900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: perl.b98 works < 1252762902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi6 < 1252762903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello world! < 1252762905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1252762906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5934 < 1252762912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, expected < 1252762919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysexec works < 1252762940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? hm < 1252762945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no testncrsterm. < 1252762952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err wait, that was half written < 1252762960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so didn't commit yet < 1252762961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1252762964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigfpe outputs "Finished" < 1252762994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the ncrs term one is http://pastebin.ca/1563092 < 1252763031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh: TERM failed to load. < 1252763038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I will be interested in if it does one or more of 1) crashes 2) messes up your terminal 3) fails in some other way < 1252763039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1252763041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is interesting < 1252763043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because I'm using cmd.exe, probably. < 1252763049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a very standard terminal. < 1252763054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try the Windows port of rxvt that Cygwin has. < 1252763057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or ncurses wasn't detected at compile time < 1252763059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-X11) < 1252763063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252763066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure time < 1252763066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I doubt it; I have ncurses < 1252763067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1252763071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the headers too? < 1252763076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1252763079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check. < 1252763087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does ./cfunge.exe -v < 1252763088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print < 1252763090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first line < 1252763092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be specific < 1252763101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge.exe not found :P but build/cfunge.exe -v, < 1252763113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ncurses < 1252763113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah well right, didn't know what directory you were in < 1252763115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1252763120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so no ncurses detected < 1252763122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at packages < 1252763134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdcurses is more common than ncurses for DOS/Windows, IIRC < 1252763144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no libncurses-devel. < 1252763146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cygwin < 1252763148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you specify ncurses in particular? or just a curses-alike in general? < 1252763160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cygwin < 1252763168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I noticed first time < 1252763168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use the macro provided with cmake to check for it < 1252763178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : set(CURSES_NEED_NCURSES TRUE) < 1252763178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : find_package(Curses) < 1252763180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses even < 1252763183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, on my copy cygwin building works with no changes < 1252763185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I needed that for something < 1252763187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the details < 1252763188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ccmake like usual < 1252763190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disable 64-bit cells though < 1252763197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it means it's currently working very well < 1252763214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I want to see mycology output though < 1252763221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, after I recompile < 1252763224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252763245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'll fix any y-like errors in Mycology, fix all the warnings and tada. Cygwin ready. < 1252763259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice thing is that cfunge.exe will work as long as you put cygwin1.dll in the same directory. < 1252763271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's as close to "native" as cfunge'll ever get. < 1252763280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm wait about perl, it seems E does indeed lock up. Which is not expected < 1252763283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a bug there < 1252763331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there are some possible issues in mycology output, possibly some stuff in sysinfo.c needs to be changed < 1252763367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I mean. < 1252763462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ncurses again < 1252763464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :queer < 1252763482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. check in ccmake for ncurses vars < 1252763499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they say NOT FOUND there? < 1252763504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the not found was cached < 1252763530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should charge for windows cfunge binaries < 1252763537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would buy them? < 1252763541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a time consuming process! < 1252763544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stop interrupting my jokes < 1252763633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the possible exit codes of perl itself? < 1252763642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are* < 1252763653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-255 < 1252763661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok, so no reserved ones < 1252763663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1252763668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant < 1252763673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -e 'exit 34;' < 1252763675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252763683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant for stuff like syntax error and so on < 1252763685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, USE_NCURSES is on < 1252763698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try in the advanced list. there should be some path to ncurses library and so on < 1252763709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It knows where curses is, and ncurses < 1252763712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_CURSES_LIBRARY /lib64/libcurses.so < 1252763712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_EXTRA_LIBRARY CURSES_EXTRA_LIBRARY-NOTFOUND < 1252763712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_FORM_LIBRARY /usr/lib64/libform.so < 1252763712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_HAVE_CURSES_H /usr/include/curses.h < 1252763713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not where CURSES_EXTRA_LIBRARY is < 1252763715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1252763717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1252763718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that is normal < 1252763721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got all that bling < 1252763736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_INCLUDE_PATH /usr/include < 1252763736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_LIBRARY /lib64/libcurses.so < 1252763736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_NCURSES_LIBRARY /lib64/libncurses.so < 1252763740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :follows below that < 1252763744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1252763753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_CURSES_H_PATH */usr/include < 1252763755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_CURSES_LIBRARY */lib/libcurses.dll.a < 1252763757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_EXTRA_LIBRARY *CURSES_EXTRA_LIBRARY-NOTFOUND < 1252763758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_FORM_LIBRARY */lib/libform.dll.a < 1252763760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_HAVE_CURSES_H */usr/include/curses.h < 1252763761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah, those * < 1252763761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_INCLUDE_PATH */usr/include < 1252763763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_LIBRARY */lib/libcurses.dll.a < 1252763763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newly detected < 1252763764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CURSES_NCURSES_LIBRARY */lib/libncurses.dll.a < 1252763766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1252763769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just ran c < 1252763769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so try c again < 1252763776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and then g to generate again < 1252763777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252763780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I did before :P < 1252763782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But okay < 1252763792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, try it once more just in case... < 1252763794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did switching to advanced mode detect them or something? < 1252763802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that wouldn't make sense < 1252763830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it compiled TERM.c without warnings or errors < 1252763839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still -ncurses < 1252763845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm what the hell < 1252763854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't "TERM failed to load." just mean, like, can't initialize ncurses? < 1252763864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec < 1252763879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that or the fingerprint didn't exist < 1252763886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll install rxvt < 1252763891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, TERM.c contains a huge ifdef around everything in it < 1252763910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252763922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try: < 1252763927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge.exe -f < 1252763933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if TERM is listed there < 1252763940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1252763954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then it isn't in the binary, thus ifdefed ouyt < 1252763956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out* < 1252763964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know why if ncurses was detected < 1252763993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you press c again after those * were there? or just g right away? < 1252764016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some older versions of cmake had some issue with... hm... < 1252764024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c again, yes. < 1252764034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, this shouldn't happen then < 1252764059 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252764062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CHECK_INCLUDE_FILE(term.h HAVE_TERM_H) < 1252764063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1252764067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is probably cached < 1252764087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I think part of the "not found" is still cached < 1252764099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reset everything < 1252764114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, removed CMakeCache.txt ? < 1252764128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything in build < 1252764131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252764131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1252764140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry, I can't make head or tail out of this < 1252764240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's claerly magi. < 1252764242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic. < 1252764244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly. < 1252764349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes since it works here. Atm I'm fixing the inf loop in perl bug < 1252764349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Still working on getting cfunge to work? :-P < 1252764367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252764369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still you could already run it on the main mycology, just not mycoterm < 1252764401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1252764411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It works, just it isn't detecting ncurses. < 1252764464 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detecting? < 1252764475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMake fail or #ifdef fail or what? < 1252764476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252764477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :detecting < 1252764479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1252764513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, unable to reproduce it here on linux. < 1252764524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252764534 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you tend to say that when people do stuff on Windows. < 1252764537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there a term.h < 1252764540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /usr/include < 1252764548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252764552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aha, where is it? < 1252764561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some directory under /usr/include? < 1252764562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's anywhere. < 1252764570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, though. < 1252764571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses/? < 1252764573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys/? < 1252764573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then TERM won't work, term.h is here a part of ncurses < 1252764586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses/term.h < 1252764592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that exists? < 1252764597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252764630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I only have term.h in /usr/inclyde < 1252764633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include* < 1252764636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inclyde! < 1252764649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm installing vi now so I can tell you what's in there. < 1252764656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, vim. < 1252764656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the wide char /usr/include/ncursesw/term.h < 1252764665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No widechar on Cygwin. < 1252764672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hasn't been ported, etc. < 1252764674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252764690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well did you say /usr/include/ncurses/term.h exists? < 1252764691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* < 1252764693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ** term.h -- Definition of struct term < 1252764695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1252764696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah? < 1252764706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looks right < 1252764712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue is, where to check for it < 1252764717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CHECK_INCLUDE_FILE(term.h HAVE_TERM_H) < 1252764718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works here < 1252764719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CHECK_INCLUDE_FILE(term.h HAVE_TERM_H) < 1252764721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1252764724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it have multiple entries? < 1252764726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1252764728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHECK_INCLUDE_FILE(term.h HAVE_TERM_H) < 1252764729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, trying to remember < 1252764731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CHECK_INCLUDE_FILE(ncurses/term.h HAVE_TERM_H) < 1252764737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or < 1252764739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1252764741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to know which one < 1252764742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1252764744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it separatel < 1252764746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1252764747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do an OR < 1252764750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it will need adjustment in the C file too < 1252764755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252764822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmer's notepad has a neat feature where if you select something, it highlights all the occurrences in the file of that term < 1252764825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I've used it, but < 1252764871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -DCURSES_TERM_HEADER=foo or a -D for each one? < 1252764880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. #include CURSES_TERM_HEADER or an ifdef < 1252764885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ifdef is more conventional but more work < 1252764886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm writing a check atm < 1252764894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But so am I :P < 1252764929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1252764963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an elseifdef? < 1252764980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, don't need it < 1252765003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Patch done. < 1252765009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just results in < 1252765010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, done too < 1252765011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef TERM_H_IN_NCURSES < 1252765013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# include < 1252765015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#else < 1252765017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# include < 1252765018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1252765020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is better :-P < 1252765025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hey, how did you copy my name for that < 1252765026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1252765028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252765034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exact same C code too < 1252765038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pastebin the cmake code you did for it < 1252765041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's identical < 1252765081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1563129 < 1252765100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yours is better. But I used HAVE_NCURSES_TERM_H as a name too. < 1252765110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Push yours and tell me how to pull it? < 1252765114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't test it, since my system has it in term.h < 1252765140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec. but you will have to merge since you have locally commited stuff, and it won't let you merge if you have locally uncommited changes < 1252765150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't it automatically merge? < 1252765171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, that is what merge does. It just refuses to do a plain pull < 1252765185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to commit the merge. Hey, hg is even stranger < 1252765193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's regular < 1252765201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, committed what I was sitting on < 1252765203 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both hg and git can do a rebase < 1252765262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think bzr can too nowdays, haven't tried it though < 1252765301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering switching to darcs one of these days if it gets faster and starts handling stuff like chmod < 1252765303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bzr pull btw < 1252765308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it will remember branch location < 1252765310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not < 1252765317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr pull --remember lp:cfunge/trunk < 1252765319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/cfunge$ bzr pull < 1252765321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using saved parent location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/main/ < 1252765323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/main/". < 1252765325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right < 1252765326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252765329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing what you said. < 1252765333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the annoying thing about darcs; it isn't production-ready yet, and I fear it never will be < 1252765334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do the second command < 1252765338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is /almost/ good enough... < 1252765346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is my fault when messing with the lp branch after you branched < 1252765357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've mainly come to appreciate its UI, and chunks are oh-so-good < 1252765358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr pull --remember lp:cfunge/trunk < 1252765360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work < 1252765361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1252765367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Now if only it had the internal architecture of git < 1252765377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what I did; merging now < 1252765384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada. < 1252765392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. Any conflicts? < 1252765396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and commit the merge btw < 1252765401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1252765403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no. < 1252765403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after fixing conflicts) < 1252765405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll test this now. < 1252765406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1252765423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well does ncurses work now? you may need to delete the results from cached checks < 1252765438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm totally re-cmaking. < 1252765452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I expect you to sign your own commits with gpg right? ;P < 1252765456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1252765473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252765498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But how can you trust my key? Coming within any significant radius of me is dangerous! < 1252765536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know. :P < 1252765596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey. < 1252765598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed a bit. < 1252765601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NCRS includes term.h < 1252765605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it does? < 1252765608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whops *fixes* < 1252765632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is ncurses.h btw? < 1252765654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include, and yet ncurses is in /lib. < 1252765659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then /usr/lib = /lib :-P < 1252765699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pushed fix for that too < 1252765735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no revisions to pull < 1252765781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: . < 1252765793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh sorry, I think launchpad has a cache delay < 1252765809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try again in a few minutes < 1252765820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1252765825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed < 1252765854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, github doesn't have any caches or delays or anything, and I'm sure launchpad isn't much more popular < 1252765857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe bzr just sucks a lot :P < 1252765868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StorageTek_tape_formats < 1252765877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A terabyte tape on one reel. Holy fuck! < 1252765881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :62s load time :P < 1252765907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It costs $37,000 apparently. < 1252765929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: still not through < 1252765936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1252766016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 62s load time :P <-- that is quite a bit. What about speed once it is loaded? < 1252766027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTFA < 1252766069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you sure you pushed it? < 1252766073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the trunk? < 1252766094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep. But indeed the delay is longer than usual < 1252766114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I just checked with the http url myself, I see the change there now, sure it isn't some isp cache? < 1252766125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https* < 1252766131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using http. < 1252766131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or http < 1252766132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252766138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I see it for both < 1252766174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1252766176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1252766186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I guess isp cache, wait a few more minutes? < 1252766192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my isp doesn't cache < 1252766197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252766201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd then < 1252766290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally. < 1252766291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there it is. < 1252766293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*There < 1252766309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right < 1252766313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build time. < 1252766346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and then pastebin mycology output < 1252766364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh as well as testing if that ncrsterm test program works < 1252766395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The reason I ask is for readability reasons I'd prefer long names" // god, I hate this reasoning < 1252766429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :directories(), or dirs() if the surrounding code handles directories a lot, is so, so superior to GetDirectoryList() or whatever < 1252766478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should default USE_64BIT to off for 32-bit machines < 1252766479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1252766481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit compiles < 1252766500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1252766516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a 32-bit funge should use its native, fast integer type? < 1252766525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The reason I ask is for readability reasons I'd prefer long names" // god, I hate this reasoning <-- where is that from < 1252766535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I work for Microsoft as a developer, and worked on Vista and Windows 7. AMA." < 1252766535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok. < 1252766548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy who made me remove a link to pirate windows 7 with his ":-(" < 1252766550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252766564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 64 bit is a good default to make funge programs not assume that everything is 32-bit < 1252766568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: guess what < 1252766570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find more bugs < 1252766571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERM doesn't compile cleanly < 1252766576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? what error? < 1252766579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's a good implementor's default < 1252766586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good user's default; after all, you claim cfunge is fast < 1252766596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid lvalue in assignment at line 172 < 1252766598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take a look < 1252766599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm even 64-bit one beats ccbi iirc < 1252766614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? :P < 1252766618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cur_term = NULL; < 1252766619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252766623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that microoptimization is going to waste < 1252766625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is cur_term for you then < 1252766645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's before that < 1252766647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid cpp shit < 1252766660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't you say 172? < 1252766673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp gets it wr ong sometimes < 1252766676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252766678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what line is it < 1252766690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1252766692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is that line < 1252766694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1252766696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern NCURSES_EXPORT_VAR(TERMINAL *) cur_term; < 1252766704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here in /usr/include/term.h < 1252766715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncwrap_cur_term() < 1252766727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1252766729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1252766730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you should just remove that NULL assignment < 1252766732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't needed is it? < 1252766742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it will break other stuff badly on linux < 1252766748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1252766749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, mycology's TERM and NCRS test < 1252766754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1252766756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it results in segfault < 1252766772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, NCRS and TERM interacts badly unless you take some weird steps < 1252766774 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252766776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The del_curterm routine frees the space pointed to by oterm and makes < 1252766778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it available for further use. If oterm is the same as cur_term, refer- < 1252766780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ences to any of the terminfo boolean, numeric, and string variables < 1252766781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : thereafter may refer to invalid memory locations until another se- < 1252766782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tupterm has been called. < 1252766785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: seems like setting it to NULL doesn't help < 1252766790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :officially, it can still be random memory < 1252766801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes it helps, because that makes other stuff re-initialise it < 1252766816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also, the cur_term itself is a pointer. < 1252766830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cite where POSIX requires cur_term to be an lvalue < 1252766832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue is, if it isn't NULL, then ncurses thinks it is valid < 1252766836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least here < 1252766883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no idea if it does. I used man pages for this stuff I think < 1252766927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, setting it to NULL isn't an option and obviously a conditional hack isn't preferable < 1252766931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure it breaks if you remove that line? < 1252766940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thing is, find another solution that works when del_curterm() doesn't set cur_term to NULL, and when ncurses itself only re-initialises it if it is NULL < 1252766962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also, yes, but let me double check it < 1252766963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Force re-initialization < 1252767043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maintain local state, and if that local state says need reinit, do so < 1252767045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep it does break. as for forcing that... < 1252767069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't that easy. because the state that gets messed up is inside ncurses itself. < 1252767085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like ncurses is broken < 1252767103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it have a function for this sort of stuff < 1252767149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well alternative is to not delete the term at all, and get a ~2 kb memory leak every time a NCRS function is called < 1252767161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free(cur_term) < 1252767175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil? Yes. Might work? Youbetcha. < 1252767220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that will leave it returning a broken pointer which will also result in the same issue. Plus that cur_term is here a struct containing pointers, so there will be more mem leak < 1252767224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and various other things < 1252767228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well hm < 1252767234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look < 1252767236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does removing that line work for you though? < 1252767241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses must have a dowhatyoudoifitisnull() < 1252767247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, #ifndef __CYGWIN__ < 1252767256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to avoid that < 1252767275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not supposed to mix ncurses and lower-level stuff < 1252767290 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's understandable that it doesn't always work < 1252767298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed, so I would recommend not testing TERM and NCRS in the same mycology test < 1252767309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noo < 1252767311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like evil < 1252767316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They work for me on both Linux and Windows < 1252767350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Without any cur_term hackery) < 1252767362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and it didn't for me. < 1252767387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It? < 1252767398 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you've tried the CCBI2 impl < 1252767399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, TERM followed by NCRS as in mycoterm < 1252767404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it < 1252767465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does cfunge do the hacks? < 1252767485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... because otherwise it segfaults at mycoterm.b98 < 1252767506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fix that < 1252767513 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252767519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep that is what I did, with cur_term < 1252767527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you hacked around it < 1252767545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no fix afaik. As Deewiant said: < 1252767547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You're not supposed to mix ncurses and lower-level stuff < 1252767547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's understandable that it doesn't always work < 1252767564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does ccbi2 do it < 1252767573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1252767585 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setupterm(null, fileno(stdout), &err); < 1252767588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putp(enter_ca_mode); < 1252767596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : putp(exit_ca_mode); < 1252767596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : reset_shell_mode(); < 1252767607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do that < 1252767635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, when do you do that? < 1252767657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First two lines on load, second two lines on unload. < 1252767689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, reset_shell_mode? < 1252767692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252767720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, on unload of TERM? < 1252767731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that doesn't make sense, what if TERM is loaded twice? < 1252767753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's not done if it's already loaded. < 1252767754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or loaded, and then copied around with FING or such < 1252767766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what "unload" is that < 1252767780 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No more TERM instructions available" < 1252767826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do you know that? I have no facility for tracking that. I do the relevant commands at exit if TERM was ever initialised < 1252767845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't fully implemented it myself yet < 1252767878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently it's just done if TERM is unloaded with ), which is obviously error-prone < 1252767906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ehird: anyway I have to do some stuff before the shops close, going out for maybe half an hour. cya. < 1252767958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I have +ncurses now < 1252767961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try mycology < 1252767964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the tests < 1252768005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: incomplete test just clears the screen, I guess that's correct < 1252768046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows Firewall has blocked some features of cfunge on all public and private networks." < 1252768051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now I really have to leave. I'll read what you said when I get back. At most half an hour. Probably more like 20 minutes < 1252768075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I guess it doesn't like it opening a socket and then connecting to it itself :-P < 1252768089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wants me to grant it permission to talk on the local network :P < 1252768110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, all GOOD or UNDEF so far < 1252768111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checking y < 1252768122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That the system's path separator is / < 1252768131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That the command-line arguments were: [ "../mycology/mycology.b98" ] < 1252768142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fail < 1252768144 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ is < 1252768149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1252768150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin, man < 1252768155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1252768163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't say "LOL C:", that's a translation to /cygdrive/c < 1252768165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a translation < 1252768167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid space < 1252768170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That the environment variables are: [all correct] < 1252768181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: opening 'mycorand.bf' with i failed < 1252768183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I should cd < 1252768354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Seems to have worked thist ime < 1252768356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this time < 1252768357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the socket < 1252768376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1252768379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All GOOD or UNDEF < 1252768401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology takes ~0.33s total. < 1252768415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100x worse than on Linux :P < 1252768419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...more or less. < 1252768451 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of that time will be spent spawning the two PERL processes < 1252768457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1252768475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now mycouser and mycoterm. < 1252768484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but hello world takes like 0.1s < 1252768491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it counts the spawning of cfunge itself < 1252768572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: mycoterm is working, except I didn't get a beep. Then again, I have no audio drivers installed. < 1252768580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it worked. < 1252768593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1252768594 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot < 1252768595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:) < 1252768611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh god < 1252768615 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252768642 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, why? < 1252768650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot on cfunge on windows :-P < 1252768652 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and you can copy-paste out of it. < 1252768656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1252768659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252768661 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can indeed < 1252768674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wonders never cease. < 1252768686 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Cygwin counts only as half of "on Windows" :-P < 1252768713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it should be quite easy to run on plain Windows. < 1252768738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of POSIX assumptions in that code < 1252768738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to use something other than mmap(), replace the regexp library, and replace the PERL forking with a Windows process spawn. < 1252768747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that it'd just be a bunch of minor incompatibilities < 1252768747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace TERM < 1252768752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace environ < 1252768758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You can get ncurses for windows, no? < 1252768767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Windows has environment variables < 1252768768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you can get PDcurses < 1252768772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1252768773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough < 1252768777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't require much changing < 1252768784 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TERM doesn't use curses < 1252768796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom. < 1252768799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess the term.h terminfo stuff is provided by curses these days < 1252768804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+and < 1252768818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not provided by PDCurses :-P < 1252768835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just one fingerprint, though < 1252768839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bulk of the code is just algorithmic C < 1252768848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, yep < 1252768869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, I'd just use ccbi2 < 1252768888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was almost as hard as setting up D :-P < 1252768895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1252768908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI2 doesn't compile on DMD < 1252768918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LDC is available for Windows < 1252768923 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it requires exceptions, which LDC doesn't provide. < 1252768934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because LLVM doesn't.) < 1252768936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you use it with? GDC? < 1252768943 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, wishful thinking < 1252768956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the moment, I don't use it on Windows. :-P < 1252768956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't compile it? :P < 1252768968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean it doesn't provide it ON WINDOWS. < 1252769008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do indeed. < 1252769021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does provide exceptions on non-Windows, or at least Linux. < 1252769051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, I'm 0.0.3 versions behin on git, and yet I can't seem to clone fungot's repository. < 1252769052 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: though scheme snakes don't have heads and tails. they have no parents ( awwww) < 1252769057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252769061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You make me sad, fungot. < 1252769061 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if i could design one... but ( x y z < 1252769073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't like the parentheses in Scheme, fungot? < 1252769082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cold personality. < 1252769093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: does git clone http://git.zem.fi/fungot.git work for you? < 1252769174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fatal: http://git.zem.fi/fungot.git/info/refs not found < 1252769174 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ok. even better, seed it with the quotes, hm ok, well, with fnord comments for obscure parts. then an automatic doc generator will write the software in question < 1252769180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git version 1.6.0.2.1172.ga5ed0 on Windows < 1252769187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for me, basically < 1252769196 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like using fnord comments for obscure parts < 1252769201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252769219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you write the comments, and then the automatic DOC generator writes the software from it < 1252769241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice, too < 1252769338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives cfunge a blanket loophole through the firewall < 1252769344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1252769360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's already there < 1252769362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1252769364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ha < 1252769406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, cfunge is using up half my CPU even though I've given it full access to THE INTERWEBS < 1252769445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I broke it by changing the command prefix. < 1252769458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows-git doesn't have colour :-/ < 1252769478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course < 1252769480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alignment < 1252769501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so where are the patches < 1252769503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1252769513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, I was going to fix the warnings first. < 1252769519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1252769530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, three warnings happen on *nix too < 1252769553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fungot is continuously using 50% of my CPU. < 1252769553 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: of course that's not something i want to make sure that it's me and not the number of < 1252769568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess cygwin is interacting badly with cfunge. < 1252769587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm very strange < 1252769587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what's the fungot command to make it say something on IRC? < 1252769588 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how does that old saw go? benchmarks are good for cardiac stuff ( and burning fat etc) and app, the last one < 1252769589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :owner < 1252769609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fungot would be waiting on a socket most of the time < 1252769610 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i didn't know i scrolled down at all." :) is it the top level, or behavior of the host os. < 1252769625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i guess is a busyloop in cygwin or something < 1252769633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252769635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command? < 1252769665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember < 1252769672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try some ul at it to see if it works < 1252769675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1252769690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps forehead < 1252769693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what network/channel is ehird-fungot running on < 1252769694 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: compare lists exactly how?' you're getting an fnord error, it would've been to have been put to use. and you could possibly use char-whitespace? from r5rs? :) < 1252769697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot to use its custom prefix... < 1252769725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: give it time < 1252769727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it works yet < 1252769760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did mycorand work? < 1252769764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252769766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1252769773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252769812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fungot gets stuck after "Looking up your hostname...", I think. I bet it's unix/dos line endings. < 1252769813 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's what those .s are. < 1252769815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"^raw" is the repeat-it-rawly command, unless you found it already. And of course with your prefix-char there, and the correct owner-string. < 1252769815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since irc uses \r\n < 1252769817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: oic < 1252769818 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in scheme: < 1252769829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's not responding to any commands, and outputs: < 1252769834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAW >>> NOTICE AUTH :*** Looking up your hostname... <<< < 1252769836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before using 50% CPU < 1252769840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets connected, though < 1252769869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's curious. < 1252769873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does cygwin use \r\n or \n? < 1252769876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\n < 1252769878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in filse < 1252769879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :files < 1252769881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1252769885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm maybe it translates somewhere somehow? < 1252769891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can configure that in setup.exe < 1252769894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that messes up stuff < 1252769898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but setting it the other way is bad < 1252769901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it says "DO NOT DO THIS" for \r\n < 1252769904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does fungot require \r\n or \n? < 1252769905 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i just mean ( in a different context. < 1252769910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1252769929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one even seemed befunge related < 1252769961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC-parsing code accepts anything. (Technically, both \r and \n are treated as message-separators, and empty messages are ignored.) < 1252769999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEARLY IT IS GOVERNMENTAL CONSPIRACY OF ESQ. < 1252770014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESR you mean < 1252770019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, anyone got anything other than fungot for me to throw this thing at? < 1252770020 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: e-mails to his account fnord e-mails to the uni during high school, who cares about repl performance, you want to < 1252770025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he's too braindead to conspire anything. < 1252770048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm you should still figure out why fungot fails IMO < 1252770049 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i rol with it. you can get? the code is fnord compared to 50+ before me. at 11k/ sec < 1252770061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1252770061 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1252770063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252770072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does it require a vocab file < 1252770080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but anything else in the meanwhile? < 1252770083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is ESQ? < 1252770088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esquire < 1252770104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it should, although it might get confused if you say its name and it doesn't have one. < 1252770124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fungot?" "...?" < 1252770126 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i dont get some practice using these, too.)) the simplest infinite surreal. so many reasons not to use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/ new/ scheme and enter your paste. < 1252770133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I guess no other interpreter provides FING so you can't trivially check whether it's cfunge or fungot < 1252770133 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what would make the installation easier.) ( 2 2) x) bug? when i looked at it < 1252770144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about CCBI? < 1252770147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it not have FING? < 1252770149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the simplest infinite surreal - http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1252770149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: If you're going to comment at least say something useful < 1252770149 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: this one looked like cyrillic but was certainly gibberish in that context. sorry, this is the appropriate one to call < 1252770159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot perfectly sloganised us < 1252770160 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ( as well as control codes until you got arithmetic working < 1252770160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it does not. < 1252770167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ccbi2? < 1252770174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't done it yet. < 1252770185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you *could* try porting rc/funge to windows. < 1252770187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252770188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so many reasons not to use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/ new/ scheme and enter your paste." is also an amusing verbosity < 1252770194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'll probably work in cygwin < 1252770198 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, RC/Funge-98 will have them < 1252770199 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use that < 1252770200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does < 1252770206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think fungot may need a data directory or such < 1252770207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1252770207 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can do `which fnord echo?' < 1252770213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not the last time I used it < 1252770216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1252770221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: v2 or? < 1252770228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v1 should be fine too, up to you < 1252770245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get one RAW line, you should get more, since at that point it's already in the IRC message splitting loop, and any non-interesting-looking message should just be ignored. < 1252770268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's nice. I don't. < 1252770274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252770286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does gdb work under cygwin? < 1252770308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir bin; make and rc funge almost compiles < 1252770310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dunno. < 1252770318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to install X shit. < 1252770320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headers. < 1252770326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep, it uses them < 1252770352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Remove WIND and some other shit from the makefile < 1252770362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURT < 1252770367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nothing else < 1252770393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any C++ befunge98 interpreter? < 1252770394 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252770397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have windows :P < 1252770399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stinkhorn < 1252770400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stinkhorn, jitfunge < 1252770402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252770404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1252770406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter < 1252770406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *interpreter* < 1252770407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jitfunge is C++? < 1252770410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you could probably literally translate cfunge to C++ relatively quickly < 1252770411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep < 1252770421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it uses quite a few C99-isms < 1252770432 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are all quite easily translated to C++ < 1252770434 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC message parsing loop might end up trapped in a CPU-wasting cycle if the SOCK 'R' keeps returning 0 or some-such. (If it reflects, it'll fail cleanly.) Of course it could fail elsewhere, too; after that "RAW" output it goes through the whole cycle of "if-elseif-else"-chainery to test for commands. < 1252770439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and some variables collide with c++ keywords and such iirc < 1252770445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/// < 1252770447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's easily fixable < 1252770452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, variable length array? < 1252770461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyword collisions can be fixed via #define, as long as you don't use the C++ keywords with their C++ meaning too < 1252770463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and variable length array at end of struct < 1252770466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252770468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the name < 1252770474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... flexible array member < 1252770481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Former is std::vector < 1252770496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latter is std::vector too, I guess, although I think that should work in C++ as-is < 1252770504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the syntax won't < 1252770513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/// < 1252770528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway what about returning a struct on the stack? constructed in the return < 1252770528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1252770541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct s; < 1252770541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC does 0-length arrays as a GNU extension probably in C++ mode too, and those are pretty identical to flexible array members. < 1252770544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s.foo = bar; < 1252770545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return s; < 1252770552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return (struct foo) { .x = blah, .y = whatever }; < 1252770557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/// < 1252770560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, allocated on the stack < 1252770568 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what I just ddid. < 1252770570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-d < 1252770574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm < 1252770578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddi? < 1252770599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That is pure syntax sugar. < 1252770602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and &((struct foo) { .x = blah, .y = whatever }) ? < 1252770607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well syntax sugar too < 1252770613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, still, quite a lot of that to translate < 1252770616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s->foo = bar; < 1252770619 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s//// < 1252770619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return s; < 1252770621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://///////////// < 1252770625 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :///////////////////g < 1252770629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// < 1252770631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1252770633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-length arrays are rather useless when you have flexible array members < 1252770634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the last one was for use in function calls < 1252770635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MANY FUCKING FORWARDSLASHES, IT CAN PORT ANY CODEBASE < 1252770650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfunge.c:173: error: conflicting types for 'New_Window' < 1252770652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge.h:407: error: previous declaration of 'New_Window' was here < 1252770654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat for 394857349573495 types < 1252770656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy < 1252770664 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You shouldn't be compiling xfunge.c at all < 1252770670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why nt < 1252770672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1252770673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it < 1252770675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PREFIX INT New_Window(INT x,INT y,INT wd,INT h); < 1252770677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-.h < 1252770680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about the restrict keyword? < 1252770686 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well if you do, I won't stop you :-P < 1252770690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Remove it, it's just optimization. < 1252770693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int New_Window(INT x,INT y,INT wd,INT h) < 1252770696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-.c < 1252770700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm true < 1252770700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM MOST CONFUSED < 1252770707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe int != INT < 1252770711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe... right. < 1252770711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe PREFIX = ??? < 1252770711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, isn't there some difference for const or so iirc? < 1252770726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh there are plenty of casts that C++ won't like iirc < 1252770728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define INT int32_t < 1252770731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be fine < 1252770734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or rather, no casts < 1252770739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in front of all malloc() < 1252770743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PREFIX is extern if not MAIN, but main < 1252770749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION defines INT as int < 1252770780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/sgnl.c: In function `signalHandler': < 1252770782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/sgnl.c:70: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type < 1252770791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (info != NULL) Push(vMach,info->si_pid); < 1252770793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1252770801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :info is a struct siginfo * < 1252770810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems very platform-specific there < 1252770834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1252770836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not, it does seem specced. < 1252770837 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252770838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i just get an rc funge that works < 1252770840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : should define it though. < 1252770847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Remove the shit from the makefile. < 1252770850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least pull in something that contains a definition. < 1252770851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it includes that < 1252770853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I done told ya. < 1252770882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/rexp.c: In function `Do_REXP': < 1252770884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/rexp.c:67: error: `REG_EEND' undeclared (first use in this function) < 1252770886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/rexp.c:67: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once < 1252770888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/rexp.c:67: error: for each function it appears in.) < 1252770889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext/rexp.c:71: error: `REG_ESIZE' undeclared (first use in this function) < 1252770891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't do without rexp... < 1252770918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need REXP, do you? < 1252770927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1252770928 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mobile in the moment. wheee, shiny.') < 1252770929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1252770931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore list < 1252770938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need that < 1252770940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude < 1252770942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it run without it < 1252770944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUDE < 1252770950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at the code it should < 1252770950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fungot shouldn't crash without it, but I probably haven't tested it. < 1252770951 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no wonder this takes two hours. afterwards i was not pleased. < 1252770952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D00D < 1252770965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude < 1252770970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Or maybe not, it does seem specced. <-- yep < 1252770970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What exactly are you talking about there. < 1252770971 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what did i do an iterative deepening minimax search with alpha-beta pruning. it's almost tragic. typical. < 1252770972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like whooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa < 1252770972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked < 1252770980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: sounds interesting < 1252770980 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i usually have used fnord < 1252770993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here are the facts, fungot did an iterative deepening minimax search with alpha-beta pruning < 1252770995 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it is the common lisp compiler, traditionally ( and still know a lot of php work < 1252770999 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iterative deepening minimax with alpha-beta pruning > fnord < 1252771001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes almost two hours, and he's unhappy with it < 1252771004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very unhappy with it < 1252771008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway si_pid is valid < 1252771010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I hope it isn't literal < 1252771010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says POSIX < 1252771030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX says a lot of things that aren't so < 1252771065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure they are, in the same place that your ponies are from < 1252771197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP < 1252771208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XWIN OH GOD < 1252771237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of POSIX, my only pulls in the siginfo_t type if __USE_POSIX is on. Of course that normally is. < 1252771262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHEW < 1252771274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, feature testing macros I assume < 1252771372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you ok/ < 1252771389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, my computer wasn't for a second < 1252771404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what OS are you on at the moment, by the way? < 1252771405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have been a bit overdramatic :P < 1252771407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1252771409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Windows 7 < 1252771413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252771416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtualised? < 1252771420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, real < 1252771427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it dual-boot, or the only OS on there? < 1252771432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a console window kept trying to open up, claiming to be xwin, and warping the pointer < 1252771434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then closing immediately < 1252771436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again and again and again < 1252771441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1252771443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dual-boot; the other OS is OS X < 1252771530 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meddle not in the affairs of X-Windows, for they are subtle and quick to anger. < 1252771553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YARR I BE CYGWIN/X < 1252771565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GON DUN SHIT ALL O'ER YER PEECEE < 1252771581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is why it's being uninstalled as we speak. < 1252771625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know of /any/ Windows software which manages to stay reasonably confined to where it ought to be, and uninstalls correctly? < 1252771632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1252771649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting < 1252771652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Chrome, PuTTY, Sumatra PDF, Foxit Reader, um... most things < 1252771657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't hard to make, so I assume that there are marketing reasons not to < 1252771664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use the system-wide add/remove thingy and it works fine < 1252771672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although generally there's some empty registry keys left, who cares < 1252771677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... allegedly Chrome has some sort of obnoxious auto-auto-update < 1252771692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1252771718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it installs updates automatically, I think < 1252771721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and patches the app in real time < 1252771722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1252771730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alternative is it bugging you, and you clicking yes blanketly < 1252771732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you always do < 1252771734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's just an annoyance < 1252771740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't think any security is lost < 1252771747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can switch to tracking the beta, etc, in a few clicks < 1252771753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252771754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite cool really < 1252771765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's a very good browser < 1252771765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows suffers from not having a consistent update mechanism < 1252771780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Windows has its installing mechanism right, actually < 1252771792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repositories are just too big to maintain yet they'll never be big enough < 1252771797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1252771802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as you can register a program for uninstalling < 1252771808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to, with the same system, register it for updating < 1252771833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a few functions you define and you can look for the updates and install them however you want < 1252771842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then windows can coordinate updates of all the software you have < 1252771931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, cygwin sucks < 1252771952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fixed those warnings yet? < 1252771955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll fix all the warnings in cfunge, and < 1252771957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1252771963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know there's one for almost every file right? < 1252772009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop, I wasn't aware, oh and there are three you shouldn't spent time on: < 1252772015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/lib/genx/genx.c: In function ‘storePrefix’: < 1252772015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/lib/genx/genx.c:386: warning: cast discards qualifiers from pointer target type < 1252772015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/lib/genx/genx.c: In function ‘declareAttribute’: < 1252772015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/lib/genx/genx.c:978: warning: cast discards qualifiers from pointer target type < 1252772016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/src/input.c: In function ‘input_getint’: < 1252772019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/src/input.c:104: warning: cannot optimize possibly infinite loops < 1252772021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those < 1252772044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/src/input.c:104: warning: cannot optimize possibly infinite loops" < 1252772051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread that as "cannot possibly optimize infinite loops" < 1252772057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252772058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same first time I saw it < 1252772098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great, a C++ app that only fail if compiled without -g at -O2 or higher < 1252772099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.info-pack.com/csv2html/ ... < 1252772108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is very slow with less than -O2 < 1252772114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: only $49.95 < 1252772119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is fast until the point of failure at -O2 or higher < 1252772126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is a game, so speed matters < 1252772127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Represents great value! < 1252772137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: should i bother fixing warnings in libs? < 1252772145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on what warnings < 1252772158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also be aware of that those file may have different code formatting. < 1252772169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted to keep it easy to update < 1252772178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/Elliott/cfunge/lib/genx/genx.c:358: warning: implicit declaration of function `snprintf' < 1252772189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/Elliott/cfunge/lib/genx/genx.c:358: warning: nested extern declaration of `snprintf' < 1252772195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err, how the helll < 1252772197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell* < 1252772199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0: warning: redundant redeclaration of 'snprintf' < 1252772205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/Elliott/cfunge/lib/genx/genx.c:386: warning: cast discards qualifiers from pointer target type < 1252772209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance. < 1252772214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, needs fixing, but I have no idea why the snprintf happens < 1252772217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the cast one < 1252772218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore it < 1252772220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said above < 1252772222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an error in is pretty weird < 1252772225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1252772227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ignore it? < 1252772239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it is a known false positive < 1252772242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I listed above < 1252772249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lib errors are useful to know about simply because they sometimes imply you're building it wrong < 1252772259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is no sane way to fix it without rewriting genx completely < 1252772275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build < 1252772276 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explicit cast? < 1252772277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cpp | grep snprintf < 1252772278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include < 1252772280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int __attribute__((__cdecl__)) snprintf (char *, size_t, const char *, ...) __attribute__ ((__format__ (__printf__, 3, 4))); < 1252772281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am bewildered < 1252772292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but AnMaster < 1252772298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many implicit declarations, does it matter? < 1252772299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works fine < 1252772304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes, issue is both const char* and char* goes into the same place, but it keeps track of const-ness in another way < 1252772320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the errors make no sense < 1252772324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep it will if you aren't on 32-bit at least < 1252772327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and agreed < 1252772341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check if they are protected by some #ifdef that may fail in the header < 1252772349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feature testing macro not working < 1252772367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add_definitions(-D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112L -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600) < 1252772369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have that < 1252772420 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252772428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blh < 1252772442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: should I give you what I have so far, btw? < 1252772461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. push the branch somewhere, that is easiest. < 1252772468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where. < 1252772480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you have any plain http server still? < 1252772513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with sftp access to? < 1252772526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build < 1252772528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bzr send --mail-to anmaster@tele2.se < 1252772530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using saved parent location "http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/trunk/" to determine what changes to submit. < 1252772531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bundling 11 revision(s). < 1252772533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 [main] python 2140 C:\cygwin\bin\python.exe: *** fatal error - unable to remap C:\cygwin\bin\cygbz2-1.dll to same address as parent(0x750000) != 0x7F0000 < 1252772534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252772534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 [main] python 3820 fork: child 2140 - died waiting for dll loading, errno 11 < 1252772536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr: ERROR: [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable < 1252772537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1252772537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that worked. < 1252772541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries -o instead < 1252772558 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably non-Cygwin bzr < 1252772571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what base revision? < 1252772590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know when you branched off mine, and since you merged some stuff from mine < 1252772593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, 781 < 1252772594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about: < 1252772598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rtag:0.9.0 < 1252772603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1252772617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bundling 0 revisions < 1252772619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252772622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err < 1252772626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rtag:0.9.0.. < 1252772630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work better < 1252772632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to mention that < 1252772648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. for range there, and no end given, so that is head < 1252772653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using saved submit location "781" to determine what changes to submit. < 1252772655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/Elliott/cfunge/build/781/". < 1252772657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO YOU REMEMBER MY MISTAKES < 1252772659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1252772663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1252772702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because you used --remember ? < 1252772707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it doesn't unless you use that < 1252772708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1252772741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well make such a file then, just tell it somewhere else < 1252772789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lost a key < 1252772794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1252772799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally < 1252772801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, keyboard broke? < 1252772824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i popped o a keycap and it ell down below < 1252772836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why did you pop one off? < 1252772841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the f one I assume < 1252772852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pop a less useful one off and put it on the f < 1252772860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i have no idea. < 1252772864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm < 1252772883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :search for it them < 1252772884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1252772896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it has to be on the floor < 1252772911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i produced an r by pressing down a thing on its dome < 1252772912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was one keycap I vacuumed off something like four times, for some reason never remembering not to try it again and again. < 1252772921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am ailure personiied < 1252772974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sign o lost key < 1252772974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, search on the floor? < 1252772977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252772989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check if it fell into pockets or such < 1252772989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keycap thieves strike agian. < 1252772991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1252772993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A giant. < 1252772998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure it isn't on the floor? < 1252773011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taken by magic. < 1252773012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about chair then? < 1252773019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you are sitting on it < 1252773030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myth busted < 1252773042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you ate it and didn't notice? < 1252773048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible < 1252773050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happens all the time! < 1252773054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1252773063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was saving it or lunch < 1252773103 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252773159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any luck with that send? < 1252773200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind o ucking priority is getting my key back < 1252773221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff < 1252773225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my small inger is small < 1252773228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story. < 1252773232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finger < 1252773234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaaaaaay < 1252773238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffffffffffffinger < 1252773242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small inger. < 1252773275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you found they key? < 1252773284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffffffffffffffffffffffffffff no just my inger. < 1252773289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252773297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why so many repeats? < 1252773315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inger hard tog eto ut < 1252773320 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1252773323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252773340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finger hard to get out fudge foodle fffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu < 1252773343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch. < 1252773476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckin a < 1252773480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fuckin found < 1252773481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fing f < 1252773484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i could eat a sound < 1252773490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where was it? < 1252773525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next to wall. < 1252773542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252773567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, make bzr forget < 1252773667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some file in ~/.bazaar/ I guess < 1252773691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott@Elliott-PC ~/cfunge/build < 1252773693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ bzr send -rtag:0.9.0.. .. -o changes < 1252773695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bundling 0 revision(s). < 1252773769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, i have no http server < 1252773781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1252773790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, let me look at send docs < 1252773846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252773887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me, except not like that < 1252773890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop the r bit < 1252773891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1252773904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how do you set branch to compare tpo < 1252773905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to* < 1252773926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr: ERROR: no such option: -t < 1252773944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr send -o testing_send lp:cfunge/trunk < 1252773945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1252773946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1252773949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone < 1252774055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emailed. < 1252774472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a break to try and figure out how to do the gui for his pdf client < 1252774483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1252774497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads mail client < 1252774510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1252774511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1252774537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc is rebuilding, wait a few minutes < 1252774544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah not even that long < 1252774546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you crazy source distro people < 1252774578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1252774583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that send doesn't include the revision history < 1252774584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? < 1252774610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1252774648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nop < 1252774663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1252774747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could push it to launchpad ;P < 1252774766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i make an account < 1252774768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I think the mail is cut off < 1252774786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it ends in the middle of the bundle itself < 1252774790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252774801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a diff first, then the bundle < 1252774827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bundle is two lines, way to short < 1252774837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to short circuit. < 1252774839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1252774842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Launchpad account. < 1252775019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, go to the main website, click in upper right corner login, then there is a create account on the same page < 1252775020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252775041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Follow the URL in the confirmation e-mail that Launchpad sends and you're done! < 1252775047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know they're going to pick a password for me. < 1252775051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it when websites do that. < 1252775067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you need to paste an ssh key into your account to make pushing work < 1252775069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The email address penguinofthegods@gmail.com is already registered in the Launchpad Login Service (used by the Ubuntu shop and other OpenID sites). Please use the same email and password to log into Launchpad. < 1252775075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck off, i don't remember that account. < 1252775084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1252775087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the email is the account btw < 1252775092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :launchpad is still hypocritical < 1252775101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suure, you can use it as an openid and base your entire online identity around it < 1252775105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but LOG IN with one of those things? < 1252775108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no no no NO! < 1252775119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc it is a planned feature < 1252775124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: great, so i'm the tired joke penguinofthegods < 1252775127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of, you know, ehird < 1252775134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this just gets better and better < 1252775144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, you own that email? < 1252775156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm ... yes? < 1252775158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you saying you don't < 1252775160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cool < 1252775166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that cool < 1252775170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool email I mean < 1252775186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the background is almost like a joke if you don't think about it too much < 1252775261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcc < 1252775273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you tell bzr about your login: < 1252775278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcc < 1252775281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr launchpad-login < 1252775289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcc < 1252775291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err a sec, I need to change irc client < 1252775293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for dcc to work < 1252775310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1252775312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try now < 1252775334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that file btw? < 1252775350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzr send < 1252775360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252775410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, a large bundle at the end < 1252775417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess that contains revisions. < 1252775421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it does < 1252775497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merged into a branch, have to review it. a bit short on time right now, but at the very least I should have time tomorrow, but probably later this evening < 1252775527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you didn't clean up getaddrinfo it seems, I guess I'll have to do it myself < 1252775535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1252775539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's work in progrses < 1252775542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warnings are still there too < 1252775547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just sending you what i have so far < 1252775551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*progress < 1252775554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason it's on a branch < 1252775789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1252776335 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252776570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1252776811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: you sent me off on a wild goose chase WinForming until I realized you need to use DLLs to interface .NET with native code :( < 1252776818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I want one executable) < 1252776848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing really wrong with DLLs, especially if you don't try to share them < 1252776858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards the end of my Windows days, I used them to cut down on recompile times < 1252776902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but I'm a minimalist; I much prefer sanepdf.exe to sanepdfnative.dll and sanepdf.exe < 1252776920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, I don't want to cut down on files; I just don't want to separate files that will never be used separately < 1252776925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can pack a .dll with an .exe < 1252776935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if .NET will let you interface with that, somehow < 1252776964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my guess is no without recompiling .net < 1252776972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Microsoft won't let you do that < 1252776979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows has in-file resources, which have file paths, no? < 1252776984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how applications embed icons and stuff < 1252776989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they have resources, but not paths < 1252776989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you could use that as the path to a dll < 1252776992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, used not to < 1252776998 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252776998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a command that blits a resource to memory < 1252777001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's about it < 1252777003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's all you need, really < 1252777016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omega! < 1252777031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WinForms does seem like the best windows gui platform though < 1252777042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, using a resource via the win32 API was really annoying < 1252777060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had to get a pointer to the thing that held the resources < 1252777062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there may not be a unique simplest one < 1252777064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then get a pointer to the resource itself < 1252777066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then lock the memory < 1252777070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1252777083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you had to unlock again when you were done < 1252777086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the simplest surreal between any two infinite ones may not be infinite < 1252777088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and then free the memory < 1252777097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the allocate-the-memory step there < 1252777114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, huh? < 1252777125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: do you know anything about whether you can use .NET to bind to a .dll that you stuffed in the .exe, WINDOWS LACKEY?! < 1252777134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a fungot quote, btw < 1252777135 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you mean ( define p ( make-point 3 5) instead of ( x,y) < 1252777149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I interpreted it as being the simplest [languages] that are infinitely surreal < 1252777157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except we kinda cover more than languages nowadays < 1252777162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah i found it < 1252777180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although intuitively omega is simplest somehow... < 1252777190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the topic < 1252777208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh that < 1252777213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, something fungot said < 1252777214 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he's the person i work with that < 1252777229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: your IRC style has always been the best. all the rest suck. < 1252777230 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i guess, i'll put some songs on p2p networks for a song with " love" in the first argument may be recurring from some time i added a check for 2.56 on the way < 1252777238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: so you think you can work me, heh? < 1252777239 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey gregor btw, it's not < 1252777264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good topic < 1252777269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's inspired discussion, after all < 1252777298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, are there any surreal esolangs? < 1252777302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURKEY BOMB comes to mind < 1252777307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SARTRE almost fits, but not really < 1252777327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1252777339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the persistence of memory < 1252777340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language < 1252777350 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252777355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execution is segmented into ticks, which are unpredictable < 1252777360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you forget variables < 1252777433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Magritte, a surreality tarpit < 1252777464 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You can interface with native code via P/Invoke, if it's already in a DLL < 1252777493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Yes, I know that much < 1252777500 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if it's not in a DLL, I think you can either use C++/CLI and ILMerge or something less C++y < 1252777509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: What if I want to pack the DLL into my .NET .exe? < 1252777516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And access that SOMEHOW. < 1252777551 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Data.SQLite does it. < 1252777558 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how, it's kind of voodoo, I think. < 1252777564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like voodoo. < 1252777577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's surprising, actually, that the only "official" C++ option is MFC. < 1252777589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, fucking MFC. It's 2009. Like every single Windows app is written in C++. < 1252777594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they want you to use MFC. < 1252777608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MFC is possibly the only API worse than Win32 < 1252777630 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MFC is bad. I haven't used ATL or WTL, but I think it's better. < 1252777658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current considerations at the moment are WTL, Win32, WinForms. < 1252777660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: darn MIB were earlier than i thought ;D < 1252777686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually if Win32 has a graphical GUI designer I might consider it. < 1252777687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "earlier than i thought"? < 1252777687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, i mean, there is no such thing as MIB < 1252777690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Visual Studio has that? < 1252777702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was there something on the forum predicting this or what? < 1252777706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er, older, maybe < 1252777713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ? < 1252777717 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It has a dialog designer, but not a proper GUI designer < 1252777724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Azstal is here < 1252777724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Do you feel like fixing a bug in Stinkhorn? < 1252777731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh < 1252777733 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually, it probably has an MFC designer < 1252777733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he POUNCES < 1252777745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Erm, you mean Visual Studio in general? < 1252777745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: good grief. i mean i did not think MIB existed back in the 17th century. < 1252777747 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: which one? < 1252777752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1252777757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: What do people use for WinForms then? < 1252777770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: This is all very surprising to me. Everything seems to suck. But this is the most popular platform. < 1252777779 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: I mean for Win32, it has a dialog designer but no real GUI designer. For WinForms, there's a `proper' GUI designer < 1252777781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, everything really, really sucks in unfixable ways. What's up with that < 1252777791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Let's talk to myself < 1252777797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Sure thing! < 1252777808 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252777809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: *``proper'' btw < 1252777813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get your FQs right < 1252777832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, rheet <- i have no idea what this is meant to be other than an injoke but it amuses me < 1252777835 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The WinForms GUI designer uses absolute positioning for most placement of controls < 1252777842 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rheeeeeeeeet! < 1252777853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: A program which should run quite quickly infinite-loops; it makes a diagonal line of z pointing upward in negative space and starts moving on it with 101-x < 1252777864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee < 1252777866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet < 1252777868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1252777870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no multiline support < 1252777881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: absolute positioning? < 1252777883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you fucking serious < 1252777887 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh no, not a funge-space bug I hope :( < 1252777893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably simplify it if I cared to < 1252777894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java-style positioning would work better < 1252777896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh, what the hell am I meant to use? seriously. < 1252777908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Presumably < 1252777914 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252777926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Azstal: I mean for Win32, it has a dialog designer but no real GUI designer. For WinForms, there's a `proper' GUI designer <-- like highlighting yourself? < 1252777928 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Only in WinForms 2.0 did it add a TableLayoutPanel and FlowLayoutPanel and SplitPanel, and they're really awkward to use in the designer < 1252777934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to make a snappy, simple, native app without too much cruft. on windows. and i want to use native code for at least some parts. and a non-sucky GUI designer would be nice. < 1252777939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this seriously impossible on windows? < 1252777949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: old < 1252777955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep < 1252777970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's also impossible on linux, so shush you :P < 1252777976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: I stuck it on http://funge.pastebin.com/f7061c036 if you're interested < 1252777980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I really like Java's standard libraries < 1252777984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not on OS X. well, snappy is debatable) < 1252777985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-simplified version, that. < 1252777987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was responding to "old" < 1252777991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity the lang itself is so bad < 1252777992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not I, they optimise for the uncommon case < 1252778002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I haven't yet commented on that windows rant < 1252778005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the expense of the common case < 1252778006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you mean by "optimise" here? efficiency? or something else? < 1252778012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: usage < 1252778026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I still don't know what you mean... < 1252778044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it just as easy to use uncommon things as common things < 1252778052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, this means that using common things is verbose and annoying < 1252778066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you start wishing for a standard library on top of these low-level primitives < 1252778188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He means "convenience", I think < 1252778204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalently "ease of use" < 1252778208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I expect Java to be inconvenient anyway < 1252778218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the library's problems pale in comparison to the lang's < 1252778225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't an argument in favour of its standard library < 1252778266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1252778280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, they have adapter classes, etc, to make it easier to use < 1252778289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the library is inconvenient to use" "I expect Java to be inconvenient" < 1252778293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore the library isn't inconvenient < 1252778294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1252778299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by comparison < 1252778332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i want a vector list: a one-dimensional, automatically-resizing, random-access vector that I can sort, access, shuffle, remove from, search, ... < 1252778339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holding strings < 1252778346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'mon, show me some example code using that < 1252778348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists nowadays, I think < 1252778352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'll laugh at its hideous verbosity < 1252778357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure ArrayList is it, or close < 1252778357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, it will < 1252778359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1252778360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be verbose < 1252778362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nowadays"?!?!?!?!?! < 1252778365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ArrayList is an /implementatino/ of list < 1252778365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit is fundamental < 1252778377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the list types do that < 1252778385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. LinkedList isn't random acecss. < 1252778388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*access < 1252778394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it simulates random access if you try, IIRC < 1252778405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit < 1252778417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to run off a Java one-liner to test < 1252778420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then realised that was impossilbe < 1252778421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, even detaching the APIs from the language - like so many JVM-based languages - they're still inherently verbose < 1252778422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*impossible < 1252778432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do anything in one line in java < 1252778432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't do it in much less than 10 or 12, assuming standard whitespace conventions < 1252778439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252778460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the main thing the java language and standard library are full of is unnecessary things < 1252778482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the notion that their idiotic retardation of static typing will help solve bugs and not hinder productivity < 1252778499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually helps productivity when you have incompetent developers < 1252778502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- which accounts for over half of the verbosity and awkwardness in the language and library, I estimate < 1252778505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it really doesn't < 1252778506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably the most common use-case < 1252778507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an awful type system < 1252778520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: besides, incompetent developers can't produce the actual meat code < 1252778527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it helps them make more valid class skeletons < 1252778532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee whizz < 1252778543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... combining code written by two idiots is about 10% likely to work in Java, as opposed to the more usual 1% or so < 1252778547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I find the nature of a language designed for incompetent developers at the expense of competent ones abhorrent < 1252778558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :library too < 1252778584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like things like the automatically resizing window layouts, etc < 1252778598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swing's theory is okay < 1252778612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swing's main issue is completely disregarding native conventions < 1252778612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice it sucks, and I don't use any java applications < 1252778618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer AWT for that reason < 1252778620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you can get it to use native widgets these days < 1252778623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're awful < 1252778624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1252778630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native widget-alikes, at least < 1252778637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWT is far too abandoned to be of use in anything but applets < 1252778639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252778640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop talking about java < 1252778642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java sucks < 1252778644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody should use java < 1252778644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1252778648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about more interesting things < 1252778668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: put it this way: I'm fine with you defending Windows, and agree in some cases < 1252778675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I seem to get clobbered to oblivion when I discuss Java < 1252778685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: most of my windows-defending is not because i like windows < 1252778691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, same here < 1252778693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i merely oppose FUD in all forms < 1252778703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if someone says something incorrect about windows, i'll correct them < 1252778705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I defend Windows because I hate incorrect criticisms of it when there are so many correct ones < 1252778710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much the same reason as you, really < 1252778751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only bit of windows i'm currently enjoying is the end-user side < 1252778757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still horrified at the internals < 1252778774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they made the command-line a lot better with Vista < 1252778781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, with powershell? < 1252778792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual cmd.exe is more or less identical < 1252778814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they reorganised the directory structure to make typing pathnames work better < 1252778820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1252778824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, much of the cmd.exe improvements came with XP < 1252778825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the FS, though < 1252778838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\Users\Elliott is just far more rational than C:\Documents and Settings\Elliott < 1252778841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252778862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminded me a lot of "doing the same thing as UNIX, but with different names so it isn't obvious" < 1252778876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X does the same < 1252778884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Users" is a more humane name than "home", though < 1252778893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you think of cmd.exe's tab-complete/ < 1252778913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as good as unix completion < 1252778914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1252778916 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program Files (x86) is a pain to tab to though :( < 1252778920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you run bash in it it's okay :-P < 1252778925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: yah < 1252778935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the way it guesses when it doesn't have enough information < 1252778941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this IRC client does that, and it's annoying < 1252778944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it leads to mispings quite a bit < 1252778947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tab to cycle through < 1252778951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't get a directory listing with tab tab < 1252778956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I know < 1252778961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're right < 1252778962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more annoying < 1252778965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, though, it lacks predictability < 1252778967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, in Windows 7, WordPad and Paint both adopt the Office look and by implication don a ribbon < 1252778973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to actually observe the results of your actions < 1252778975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I knew that < 1252778976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps subconsciously just to annoy you, I like the new UI of both < 1252778979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the ribbon work for Paint? < 1252778986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how many tabs does it have? < 1252778993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Home and View < 1252778999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Home should be called Paint < 1252779017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that doesn't really aid discoverability, which is the whole point of a ribbon < 1252779020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the in-ribbon organization is good, and Home vs View is just as efficient as a menu < 1252779025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you see Home by default < 1252779028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I dislike ribbons because they require more clicks than a toolbar < 1252779032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's mitigated < 1252779034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's not the point < 1252779041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toolbars aren't very usable unless you know them < 1252779045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're redundant with menus < 1252779047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably better for new users, until they have practice < 1252779049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ribbons unify toolbars and menus < 1252779055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're worse for power users < 1252779060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree < 1252779062 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paint's works quite well, better than it does in Office, I'd say. < 1252779068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general principle, for me, is toolbars for power users once you know them; menus have everything, for discoverability < 1252779072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for rarer-used things < 1252779075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a thing to remember is that your subjective experience is almost certainly wrong < 1252779079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact: why not combine the ribbon and the toolbar? < 1252779083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would probably work even better < 1252779086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans disagree with the stopwatch more than not < 1252779092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, that's what it is < 1252779097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ribbon replaces both menus and toolbars < 1252779101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, I mean < 1252779108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a (auto-collapsing) ribbon < 1252779110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also a toolbar < 1252779118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Word does that a bit anyway < 1252779124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: the ribbon apps are WPF, aren't they? < 1252779125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with putting the save button outside the ribbon < 1252779130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell by the gradient look and the font rendering < 1252779141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw in windows 7, have they finally fixed that weird "can't delete file in use" thing that happened all the time in xp even when no apps were using it < 1252779142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that defeats the point < 1252779144 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's an MFC ribbon control < 1252779148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what is the point/ < 1252779150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dunno < 1252779151 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Official) < 1252779156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turned out explorer.exe was holding a spurious handle most of the time < 1252779158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: but the font rendering < 1252779159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has all the advantages of a ribbon, and /also/ lets you do common commands in one click < 1252779179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, you fix that by closing arbitrary explorer windows until the error goes away < 1252779183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ribbons have almost the efficiency of toolbars and the discoverability and organisation of menus < 1252779190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mousing over there is always going to be slow < 1252779191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's that "almost" I disagree with < 1252779194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really use it so often < 1252779196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a damn shortcut < 1252779199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what they're for < 1252779209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: now you're arguing for Emacs + a ribbon < 1252779213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mousing over will always be the most expensive part of an operation < 1252779217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it happened to me with all windows closed anyway < 1252779217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1252779222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not arguing FOR a ribbon interface < 1252779225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the file was on the desktop that time iirc < 1252779227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252779230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were < 1252779233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just against arguing against it < 1252779241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., I think they're rather good as far as current interfaces go < 1252779246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can still be fast with them if you want < 1252779255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't be, it rather assumes a working mouse < 1252779266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :menu > ribbon for speed /and/ discoverability when you don't have one < 1252779266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean with shortcuts < 1252779269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know I'm a special case here < 1252779278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my OS assumes a working display too :P < 1252779305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(does anyone else here instinctively run through menus from right to left when checking for what commands are on them, because pressing right opens submenus and pressing left doesn't?) < 1252779314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252779335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err? no? < 1252779348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: menus large enough for that to be effective are generally hopeless, in my experience < 1252779355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I know < 1252779356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tend to use the mouse < 1252779360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying that programs where you do that are good UI < 1252779367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for once I'll be actually putting my money where my mouth is and making a program with good UI < 1252779370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, such programs do exist, and sometimes I end up using htem < 1252779373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my pdf reader) < 1252779374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I dislike what I have seen of ribbon interfaces < 1252779374 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run from right to left typically, don't know if it's for that reason < 1252779378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I do, I go from right to left < 1252779378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't used them much < 1252779379 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: are you sure this program loops? It prints 15 for me < 1252779392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh, maybe the parameter is too small < 1252779392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sec < 1252779401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think the best interface depends a lot on what the program's meant to do < 1252779413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit sherlock < 1252779414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, try to design the perfect interface for a stream editor < 1252779427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it would be a command-line or batch interface, or something more GUIy? < 1252779430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh, I think that a ribbon is the best thing for e.g. Word < 1252779434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't ever remove a feature from Word < 1252779443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to make compromises to be comprehendable in that constraint < 1252779446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people will yell < 1252779451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy word users have all the key combinations memorized, anyway < 1252779462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I used to use a massively customized version of Word < 1252779468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was younger < 1252779476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had two toolbars at each side of the screen, three at the top and bottom < 1252779482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used Word when I was younger... who wants to use Word? < 1252779484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/and/ a whole load of custom key combinations < 1252779488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: Looks like 62 is the magic number; change the first 1 on the first row to 6a*2+ < 1252779488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1252779496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I used to have an Opera setup like that < 1252779503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera seems to have a tendency to... wrap you inside it < 1252779507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do everything from within in little toolbars < 1252779508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually got quite good at programming WordBasic, although VBA for Excel was better, so I moved to that after a while < 1252779512 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: (That's the number of z to put in the diagonal line) < 1252779512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you're living inside it < 1252779516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surrounded by buttons and knobs and stuff < 1252779534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with emacs, I think < 1252779547 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hmm, 15 then infinite loop, that seems to have done the trick < 1252779553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1252779556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'll probably be surprised to know that my ideal interface isn't entirely unlike a command line < 1252779567 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :61 still works fairly instantaneously, 62 doesn't. < 1252779571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not all that surprised < 1252779585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm the official defender of mouse-based interfaces! < 1252779619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... you spend a lot of time arguing that mice are faster < 1252779625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :untrue < 1252779640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spend some time arguing that mice can be faster under more circumstances than you may think < 1252779641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I was going to continue that faster isn't always bette < 1252779642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*better < 1252779653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that's true < 1252779658 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1252779661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can get your task done faster, the computer has done better < 1252779680 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it seems to be stuck on the "x".. I doubt it helps that the IP's direction is { 0, 0, 0 } :D < 1252779680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, yes < 1252779686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in terms of expressibility < 1252779693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: :-) < 1252779697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you can't get your task done it takes infinitely long < 1252779700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's accounted for < 1252779704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: trefunge? < 1252779713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, OK; I was using a different speed metric to you < 1252779715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: I wonder how it manages to get zeroes from 101- :-) < 1252779729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't get the ) < 1252779731 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Internally, it uses 3-vectors all the time, even for befunge. < 1252779732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Befunge, but his impl is generic that way < 1252779735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and isn't the :- just a redundant way to preduce 0? < 1252779738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: value t such that at time t your task is completed < 1252779741 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it probably passes over the x again somehow :( < 1252779743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't do it, t=infinity < 1252779752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right, quite possibly < 1252779755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it misses the @. < 1252779757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: which impl? < 1252779760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::- is identical to drop 0 < 1252779766 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mine, aka. stinkhorn < 1252779768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I was trying to make a bad joke, interpreting the smiley as Befunge < 1252779773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252779779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *produce < 1252779781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not preduce < 1252779788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, typo < 1252780098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mh < 1252780113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :winforms, wtl or win32... well wtl isn't really popular or well documented, so not that < 1252780137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...eh, but win32 doesn't have a gui designer. i guess i'll have to find out how to embed native code in a .net .exe thingy. ho hum. < 1252780174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have seen win32 GUI designers, but they were truly awful and I did it by hand instead < 1252780184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't by Microsoft, it was something by Borland < 1252780217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1252780218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. < 1252780223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the winforms gui thing uses absolute positioning. < 1252780226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's just a joke. < 1252780235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: does the MFC designer use absolute positioning < 1252780237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252780250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've never seen a Windows GUI designer that doesn't < 1252780250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, i conclude that it's impossible to graphically design a decent ui on windows < 1252780254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, I haven't seen all that many < 1252780259 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strictly avoid MFC, so I wouldn't know. < 1252780263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one for Word did, at least < 1252780271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Visual Basic one does too, I think < 1252780275 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WPF doesn't, at last. < 1252780279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did when I last used it, but that was pre-.NET < 1252780281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if sharpdevelop's gui designer is absolute too < 1252780290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: yeah, but that text rendering is indeed ugly. also, xml. < 1252780309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, sharpdevelop looks identical to visual s tudio, pretty much < 1252780315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i doubt it doesn't use absolute < 1252780332 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's not as XML-y as XUL, which uses DOM, XML events, XBL, etc... < 1252780344 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to manipulate my UI with the DOM API :( < 1252780349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they all have those awful gradients < 1252780355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and crap < 1252780361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing native-loking < 1252780363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what year are gradients? < 1252780373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean in microsoft software? < 1252780377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, we know that myspacey web pages are around 1996 to 1998 < 1252780377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blue gradients were 2003 < 1252780384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big ribbon WPF gradients 2007 < 1252780384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ah, good to know < 1252780394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Word's title bar still have a gradient, btw? < 1252780398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that no other application does? < 1252780403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no because it would clash with Aero < 1252780416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't really paying attention the few times I used Word 2007 < 1252780430 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the office button, and the title is centered < 1252780442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geekpedia.com/gallery/fullsize/Microsoft%20Word%202007.jpg word 2007 on xp < 1252780444 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or centred < 1252780449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.helpcomponline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/800px-MS_Word_2007.png word 2007 with aero < 1252780521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that isn't really a gradient < 1252780530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've managed to produce something even more annoying, using only one colour < 1252780538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that background behind the document really grates on me < 1252780540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the WPF gradient i mean < 1252780564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find it < 1252780566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks crap < 1252780584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that background is a gradient, btw < 1252780592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has jerks as well < 1252780603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like when you do a gradient with a crappy colour depth < 1252780607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.formsonadisk.com/users_guide/graphics/word_2003_new_pane.png // anyone remember word 2003?!?! < 1252780607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but looking more deliberate than that < 1252780623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did _anyone_ approve that UI... < 1252780626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that screenshot has a crappy font < 1252780633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just a high dpi < 1252780635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I do remember word 2003 < 1252780635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the regular tahoma < 1252780652 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way too many programs emulate that look. :( < 1252780655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Tahoma looks wrong at that size < 1252780661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider, when that word 2003 monstrsity came out, you could get this: http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/desktop/firstrun/macosx103.png < 1252780663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any sort of anti-aliasing < 1252780670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catchup sure does take a long time < 1252780674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just compare it to the MS Sans Serif in the pane < 1252780684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was actually designed to look decent as a bitmap font < 1252780690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no ms sans serif in that pictures. < 1252780700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*picture < 1252780715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what font would you say the pane with the arrow is? < 1252780719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tahoma. < 1252780720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks a lot like MS Sans Serif to me < 1252780725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too wide for that. < 1252780727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tahoma. < 1252780741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't too wide < 1252780747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1252780750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tahoma, okay? < 1252780755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am 100% sure < 1252780779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Sans Serif looks far uglier than that < 1252780789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the fonts vista introduced are wonderful < 1252780855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... its official website doesn't seem to go below 12pt < 1252780869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ridiculous, given that its only purpose was the separate rasterisations for the smaller sizes < 1252780884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ascenderfonts.com/font/microsoft-sans-serif.aspx < 1252780895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're right, that 12pt is insanely ugly < 1252780911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft sans serif is the worst "helvetica-esque" font ever designed < 1252780914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no question about it < 1252780923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: remember System/ < 1252780940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in the days of Windows 95 and earlier, it was a raster font that was always in memory < 1252780941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System is helvetica-like? < 1252780945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could use it even if you were out of memory < 1252780965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it isn't as helvetica-like as, say, MS Sans Serif or Arial < 1252780968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it is to some extent < 1252780995 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252780998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screenshot plz < 1252781022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't have one < 1252781032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I can find a screenshot from Windows 95 or earlier < 1252781188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Microsoft don't even admit its existence in their windows 3.1 fonts page < 1252781194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because it was part of the OS, not a separate font < 1252781258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I found a mention (but not a screencap) in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/83386 < 1252781264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which talks about a windows 2 compatibility option < 1252781303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, got one < 1252781304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Windows_3.11_workspace.png < 1252781309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System's the font in the title bars < 1252781311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that < 1252781368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I don't think it's badly designed < 1252781369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I think it would be incredibly funny if ReactOS contested the free use rationales < 1252781376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, atheism slipped back on top of reddit... < 1252781391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it made sense for the time, at least < 1252781403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use it all the time in my Windows 3.1 programs because using any other font was a pain < 1252781413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and marijuana :D < 1252781445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the forms in that font are perfectly well designed < 1252781447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just ugly < 1252781452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I always used to compile targeting windows 3.1, because it was more reliable than targeting 32-bit versions of Windows; I continued this habit even when I was on Windows XP) < 1252781488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to shoot people who put things like copy and paste in toolbars < 1252781535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why? < 1252781549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they don't belong there, it's a redundant waste of space < 1252781563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure some people use them < 1252781567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be your suggestion for a better copy-and-paste interface? < 1252781574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/most/ people I know use them < 1252781579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nontechnical people, anyway < 1252781583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it already exists: right click on the position you want to paste on, click paste < 1252781590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select what you want to cut/copy, right click, do it < 1252781595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, mice have more than one button? < 1252781599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these interfaces are *contextual*, and therefore far superior < 1252781602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, virginia. < 1252781609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've said that twice today < 1252781622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: most of the users in question wouldn't think of that < 1252781630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're used to it this way < 1252781644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, recent version of Word pop up a mini-toolbar with copy and paste on near the mouse when you hover the mouse near a selection < 1252781647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're all indoctrinated with bad UIs and it scars us < 1252781667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, what do you think of X-style drag-middleclick? < 1252781667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, similar to the iPhone, sort of < 1252781708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... apparently there was a Windows 3.2 < 1252781711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it because with terminal programs (those stone-age things that refuse to behave anything like a modern GUI application) the alternative is unbearably tedious. However more often than not I accidentally highlight something else on the way. < 1252781714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was only released in Chinese < 1252781716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! There goes your selection, ha ha. < 1252781732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I use it for quick copies, but not when I want to keep anything on the clipboard for any length of time < 1252781745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I find myself using both common copy-paste mechanisms < 1252781760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly I'm copying a URL to someone, or moving some text from one window to another < 1252781766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i even mess up with quick copies < 1252781767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I'm doing drag-click copies < 1252781772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, here's a mistake I often make < 1252781774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select a url < 1252781776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click browser window < 1252781777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click url bar < 1252781779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1252781781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it selected the whole thing < 1252781783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can type over it < 1252781786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha, you can't paste now < 1252781792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the computer and i hate you < 1252781793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that doesn't trigger X copy-paste IME < 1252781800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only drag-select does < 1252781801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I must click it or something < 1252781804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try < 1252781808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will probably be a Windows 8.8 just for the chinese < 1252781822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(add extra 8's as needed) < 1252781826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Firefox doesn't select the whole thing when I click the URL bar < 1252781849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes Programmer's Notepad more usable, which basically means removing 90% of the interface < 1252781851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does Epiphany < 1252781854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody appreciates simplicity... < 1252781855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this is hard to test < 1252781863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ever seen Notepad++'s interface? < 1252781866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to, which annoyed me < 1252781868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unfortunately. < 1252781876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I thought you'd hate it < 1252781911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one of the things I'm dreading about writing my reader is how I'm going to integrate my fancy useful features into it; I can't just dump them there because that's not smooth enough... < 1252781943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay, at the bottom of a programmer's notepad file window there are a few small icons, all incomprehensible without hovering over to see what they do < 1252781948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text is evil! < 1252781953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must destroy it! < 1252781957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use tiny icons instead. < 1252781973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiny icons are sometimes good and sometimes bad < 1252781978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not really < 1252781983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're bad, especially when inscrutable < 1252781986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking 16x16 here < 1252781987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, less < 1252781992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if they're replacing something that's useless anyway, I'd rather have the icon than the text < 1252781995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x8, maybe < 1252781996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because at least it isn't in the way < 1252782006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's how I'd rewrite them: < 1252782070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>>Highlight syntax<<] [ Word-wrap ] [ Number lines ] [ Show whitespace ] [ Show line endings ] [ Write-protect ] < 1252782078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'd remove the last one; all the others are about the display of the file < 1252782078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that fit? < 1252782081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the last one isn't < 1252782089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes; it takes up about 10th of the width < 1252782096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a few tiny icons, then a mass of blank space < 1252782106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>...<< meaning depressed, btw < 1252782107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort-of a subscriber to the theory that all programs should be capable of running at 320x240 resolution, even if that isn't the usual use-cas < 1252782114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use-case < 1252782131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort of a subscriber to the theory that a button should be self-evident, and I shouldn't have to hover over its shitty icon to figure out what the fuck it does every time I want to do something < 1252782150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION instantly thinks of an article on web design < 1252782157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be worse if the icon only appeared when you hovered < 1252782164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is apparently common in bad web design < 1252782178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author of the article thought of an even worse possibility < 1252782184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where the buttons are randomized each time you unhover < 1252782194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to repeatedly hover and hope to get the right inscrutable icon < 1252782197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the smallest notebook screen these days has 4x more height and 3.3x more width than your 320x240 thing < 1252782200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by chance < 1252782202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: DS? < 1252782210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-smart phone? < 1252782210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1280x800 notebook scren < 1252782212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen < 1252782218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notebook = laptop < 1252782224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine mobiles on which 320x240 is plausible < 1252782232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, we're writing desktop applications, see < 1252782232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on which you might someday want to run a program < 1252782240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole user paradigm is totally different on a mobile < 1252782242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, Enigma's being ported to 320x240 at the moment < 1252782245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a desktop application < 1252782249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a game. < 1252782252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252782255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same thing at all < 1252782265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't see why all programs shouldn't run on /everything/ < 1252782274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then, every program would be terrible. < 1252782279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they need different UI paradigms for different systems, make the UIs change < 1252782281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even AnMaster has to agree with me here... < 1252782292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ? < 1252782383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, you can hide those useless icons < 1252782399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that struck me after rewriting them as text is, why the hell are they ever-present icons? < 1252782424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't nearly as common editor operations to deserve a bar of their very own! < 1252782428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact they border on options < 1252782441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: gedit puts some of its options in the bottom bar (as text) < 1252782448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useful because it keeps forgetting their settings < 1252782455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as useful as remembering the settings in the first place would be < 1252782470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure that's optional; I never saw it when using gedit < 1252782497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a neat feature of programmer's notepad: if you select something, every other occurrence in the document gets a green highlight < 1252782505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like automatic search! < 1252782522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that is relatively interesting < 1252782544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, multiplexing as many non-conflicting passive effects that you can one one action helps to speed GUI ues < 1252782546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use < 1252782550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it ends up 'busy' afterwards < 1252782560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice at first, so it's quite unobtrusive < 1252782653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes the toolbar entirely, as it only had a quick find field (ctrl-/) and a find in files button (in the toolbar) < 1252782656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, in the menus < 1252782663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that toolbar was about 90% useless... < 1252782711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a toolbar full of things you wouldn't use via the toolbar is probably worse than useless < 1252782718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does "format painter" have a shortcut key? < 1252782721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, it needs one < 1252782725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :format painter? < 1252782741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a copy+paste special (only referencing formats) < 1252782743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one toolbar button < 1252782754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Office programs have had it for ages, OpenOffice.org copies it < 1252782763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of other office programs do too, probably < 1252782783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, if copy and paste were replaced by a copypaste button that did the same thing as format painter, it would probably be more useful < 1252782790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, copying text as well as formats < 1252782794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it is, I still can't understand a single part of the explanation you ave and it's in a field of programs that I should be mildly familiar with, so it's probably a bad feature < 1252782801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gave < 1252782821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: basically, you highlight text, then click the button, then highlight more text < 1252782827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1252782832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all formatting from the first set of text is copied to the second set < 1252782848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an option that's painfully fiddly to do any other way; ofc, it ought not to be, but it is < 1252782851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have... never wanted to do that once in my life < 1252782863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's a bit modal for my tastes < 1252782868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I rarely do it on my own documents nowadays < 1252782869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have a formatting clipboard, or similar < 1252782874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's incredibly useful for fixing other people's < 1252782910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it copy it as soon as you release the second highlight? < 1252782917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds anxiety-inducing < 1252782972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as soon as you release < 1252782983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1252782983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc, that formatting is still highlighted, so you can chain it to a third section < 1252782995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd much prefer another button press < 1252783008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more confident selecting, ability to correct mistakes, etc < 1252783101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries out one of the oddest editors he knows of for fun < 1252783171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO/ < 1252783172 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252783182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's contemporary < 1252783193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quite simple at first glance, but it combines things in a way I've never seen before < 1252783195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first tried it like a year or two ago < 1252783203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on windows though afaik. < 1252783214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's actually written in Java, but requires Cygwin and Ruby < 1252783215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called? < 1252783225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby starts up the Java, you see, and the whole thing uses Cygwin < 1252783293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Evergreen; it actually started off as a port of acme to Java, but then has grown some sort of IDE-like stuff, ctags support, a weird notion of workspace, some quite-odd SCM support, and it has an odd practice of using regexps/diffs everywhere < 1252783295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://software.jessies.org/evergreen/ < 1252783314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I first used the Terminator softare by the same people; creepily, the main person behind it is Elliott H < 1252783385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moves his cfunge stuff out of the way, trashes that cygwin install to make way for a more reasonable one < 1252783540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly enough, my main cygwin annoyance apart from setup.exe's UI is I can't decide where to put setup.exe and its downloaded packages... < 1252783554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should make an installer that puts it somewhere for you to cure you of your indecision < 1252783632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish windows software didn't try and add desktop shortcuts < 1252783645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a recipe for a cluttered desktop... every application seems to think that you want to use it all the time < 1252783730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1252783739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's partly because Windows' start menu organization is insane < 1252783747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :organising by company isn't useful for the users < 1252783752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had no issues with it in Windows 7 < 1252783762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single program I've added has been under a program name, not a company < 1252783777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might just be because they're freeware, but still < 1252783782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Google Chrome, not Google/Chrome < 1252783849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and it has a program launcher built in < 1252783860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit windows key, release; this'll focus the search field, which gives priority to programs in the start menu < 1252783877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "command" , voila < 1252783881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "regedit" , voila < 1252783902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "in expl" , voila < 1252783903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1252783904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it be configured? It can't in Vista AFAIK. < 1252783908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(internet explorer) < 1252783910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: configured howso < 1252783917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To look for non-start menu programs < 1252783925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it can certainly run regedit. < 1252783936 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because regedit is in %PATH%. < 1252783937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, I don't think so; add a dummy folder to the start menu or something. < 1252783941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Searchabilities" < 1252783949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I probably should. < 1252783970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice if it searched Program Files too, but I don't really have anything not in the start menu... < 1252784048 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It finds my xulrunner.exe, which isn't in my path or on my start menu, but it lists it as a "File" so it doesn't get priority < 1252784072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, it is regular search too. < 1252784080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it *is* < 1252784134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11pt consolas is a nice font < 1252784138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program Files is still called Program Files in Win7? < 1252784143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, yes < 1252784147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you expect? Programs? < 1252784151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be far too logical 'n shit. < 1252784159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I've renamed it to always for the past 5 years or so, yes. < 1252784164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's still Program Files (x86), too :P < 1252784172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What a thing to risk breakage for < 1252784184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only things that break are crap. < 1252784200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's much more convenient to have a non-space path for it. < 1252784210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, Google Chrome installs in my user directory, I think. < 1252784212 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an 8.3 one, too. < 1252784217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For its auto-update stuff. < 1252784219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No PROGRA~1 for me TYVM < 1252784222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda cool that it doesn't need restarting or anything. < 1252784226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.3 is for lamers, btw. < 1252784243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator requires 8.3 < 1252784247 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like the indelible Xerox directory's gone now. :) < 1252784247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah. < 1252784284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: omg! <3 < 1252784290 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent about a day figuring out why it couldn't find an executable it needed before I figured out that it was because I had disabled 8.3 name generation < 1252784318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm tempted to make that change now, except that it'd break stuff I already have installed. < 1252784418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Amusingly, every actual program I have is in PROGRA~2 < 1252784430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to there being approximately zero x64 Windows applications in existence. < 1252784469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if x64 is 64-bit, does x86 mean 86-bit? < 1252784471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252784490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's why x64 makes no sense. < 1252784518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's derived from the Intel 8064, clearly. < 1252785082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can replace the font in e.g. the appearance dialogs and stuff with Segoe UI < 1252785194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows < 1252785196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes < 1252785198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Shell Dlg < 1252785200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me takes notes < 1252785201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1252785203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes notes < 1252785273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, MS Shell Dlg is a sort of alias for ms sans serif < 1252785332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I remap MS Shell Dlg, MS Shell Dlg 2 and MS Sans Serif to Segoe UI, it should be foolproof < 1252785375 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many programs that will break < 1252785382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt very many < 1252785390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst case the text will overrun a little < 1252785401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, using programs like regedit's dialogs won't be a time travel < 1252785422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Shell Dlg = Microsoft Sans Serif < 1252785425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Shell Dlg 2 = Tahoma < 1252785427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just noting that < 1252785443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helv = MS Sans Serif < 1252785463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Sans Serif = (undefined) < 1252785465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Sans Serif = (undefined) < 1252785514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't work; wonder if I need to reoot < 1252785526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undoubtedly < 1252785537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck that then, I'll put it back < 1252785544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messing with the registry typically means you do < 1252785629 0 :atrapado!n=roper@50.56.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252785813 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252785851 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252785908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick! Where should I put the cygwin setup files? < 1252785910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252785911 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252785914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's helpful. < 1252785924 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252786105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Could you say something helpful, free-form? < 1252786105 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: must have type system is one of the lesser known programming languages" tacked on. < 1252786115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not. < 1252786316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: so, are you rebelling against your creator yet? < 1252786325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es < 1252786326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252786328 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'll parallelizing fsck this thing soon, but maybe < 1252786330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's refusing to reply to people that talk to him < 1252786332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1252786335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: kinky < 1252786335 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what does ccbi do there? it's clearly not necessary to achieve turing completeness, though. < 1252786349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's totally a direct quote < 1252786353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster followed by deewiant < 1252786366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is it isn't quite direct < 1252786377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, ofc it is < 1252786378 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two separate direct quotes, more likely < 1252786381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252786383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i mean < 1252786386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consecutive in the logs < 1252786390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so they come right next to each other < 1252786392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1252786439 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not necessarily consecutive. < 1252786535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they both only make sense as part of similar conversations < 1252786536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't really continue the context between quotes; there's a special START and END token, and it only takes n-grams inside a single comment. < 1252786552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I have no clue what I've actually implemented. < 1252786553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 Aug 2006 ... cyg-apt is like apt and makes installing cygwin packages a lot more friendly. I've always disliked the clunky setup program that comes with ... < 1252786555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD YES. < 1252786689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, and also apt-cyg which seems more apt-like and more reent < 1252786719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recenjt < 1252786721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent < 1252786797 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252786840 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252787161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1252787491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: now what? < 1252787515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out where I should keep cygwin's setup.exe and downloaded packages :| < 1252787565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\Argle bargle glop glyf\ < 1252787571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope this helps < 1252787605 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep a C:\Apps directory as an equivalent of Program Files for non-installed programs < 1252787612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therein I keep C:\Apps\Cygwin. < 1252787629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, http://thismight.be/offensive/uploads/2009/09/12/image/272668_%5Bhuge%5D%20genius%20flamewar.jpg < 1252787639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin is more Fundamental than that. < 1252787666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\Theory of everything\Cygwin\ < 1252787669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it in C:\Cygwin, it's just that the manual and everywhere says "And save setup.exe SOMEWHERE! Then, give it SOME DOWNLOAD DIRECTORY". < 1252787682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., it's not cygwin that's the issue, it's setup.exe and its packages < 1252787684 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My setup.exe is in the Cygwin root < 1252787690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its download directory is C:\Temp. < 1252787699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes things hella slow, no? < 1252787704 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? < 1252787704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252787730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redundant redownloading. < 1252787742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., it'll redownload the package list each time, no? < 1252787743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it redownload? < 1252787748 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh that < 1252787757 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably would anyway, given that it, y'know, updates. < 1252787767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but :| < 1252787805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also C:\Temp isn't a real folder true story. < 1252787808 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252787828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\Windows\Temp is but it is locked.) < 1252787829 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252787829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What then? < 1252787848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., you have to grant yourself permission < 1252787900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure where you're meant to put temp stuff < 1252787903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know how to access e.g. C:\Doccuments and Settings < 1252787905 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c < 1252787915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always says permission denied < 1252787916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin can touch \Windows\Temp, because it's admin, but still. < 1252787926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Windows Explorer, I mean. < 1252787939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those junctions don't really seem to work. < 1252787947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because that folder doesn't exist any more? < 1252787963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does, it's a junction to C:\Users. < 1252787969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1252787980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know about Win7, but it does in Vista. < 1252788017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another example is %USERPROFILE%\Application Data, which goes to %USERPROFILE%\AppData\Roaming. < 1252788031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that Roaming shit anyway < 1252788039 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Both being %APPDATA%, the former pre-Vista) < 1252788043 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me. < 1252788061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff you could copy to another machine? < 1252788196 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for people who use their account on many computers in a domain < 1252788212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually can't figure out what the folder is in Windows 7 for miscellaneous temporary crap < 1252788224 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AppData\Local\Temp < 1252788244 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1252788264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: And for system-wide apps? < 1252788275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they have to suck cock^W^Wbeg for admin capabilities. < 1252788293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use \Windows\Temp. < 1252788316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Users\AppData\Local\Temp? < 1252788324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? :-P < 1252788340 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, does that exist? < 1252788348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's \Users\Public THESE DAYS anyway < 1252788361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better < 1252788362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it only works as a name with All Users < 1252788367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public != global < 1252788371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public == shared < 1252788384 0 :Darth_Cliche!i=43b00c36@gateway/web/freenode/x-xgsgfrrjouqdqywf JOIN :#esoteric < 1252788390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the folders are Public Documents, Public Downloads etc < 1252788402 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello all < 1252788403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No \AppData < 1252788403 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends what you mean by system-wide - if it's running as SYSTEM, it has access to \Windows\Temp < 1252788414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I guess the UAC'd cygwin setup does. < 1252788416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darth_Cliche: yo. < 1252788739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I'm fairly sure my brain is just making up excuses < 1252788757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now demanding whether I install it to c:\cygwin, C:\cygwin or C:\Cygwin, despite these paths all being compatible. < 1252788818 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I found them: there's C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles for service user accounts < 1252788849 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find the SYSTEM one though. < 1252788938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\Windows :P < 1252788963 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be cool because C:\Windows\Desktop would exist again :) < 1252789047 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252789089 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile < 1252789114 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYSTEM has a desktop? < 1252789126 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems not < 1252789135 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good :-P < 1252789136 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it would do if you logged in as SYSTEM, of course < 1252789149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that? < 1252789163 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some internet explorer-related directories there... < 1252789168 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes :D < 1252789181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :D < 1252789202 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC one way was to set the screensaver to cmd, and then lock the workstation < 1252789213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do that. It'll be the only thing you can do to stock Windows to make it *less* secure. < 1252789217 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1252789220 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psexec can also run things as system < 1252789232 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had explorer running on the "this workstation is locked" desktop < 1252789258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Man, I remember when Shuttleworth took a laptop with him to render the first image in space and POVRay was the software. They had to set it to only render 25% of the time (and pause the rest) because the hot air didn't escape from the heatsink in space (no gravity)." < 1252789259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man < 1252789270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see the first laptop certified for long-running space usage < 1252789281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That pesky LACK OF GRAVITY ruining everything < 1252789584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1252789598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravity is that important for convection? Wouldn't've guessed < 1252789618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick you fools! Solve my obviously-misdirecting trivialities! < 1252789712 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's the standard trick of invoking cmd.exe /interactive as scheduled task... < 1252789726 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that still work? < 1252789749 0 :Darth_Cliche!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252789967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... well, everything else in \ is title-cased, but then again the rest of the Cygwin path will be lowercase for the mostpart... wow, what the fuck is wrong with me. < 1252790322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drinks an odd cola < 1252790349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tastes sort of like brown sugar in liquid form, except more acidi < 1252790351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1252790455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You should tell me what this cola is most like, because I've never tasted anything like it and you're clearly the resident soda expert. < 1252790652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually almost all of the taste is in the aftertaste. < 1252790704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cola for time travelers! < 1252790728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the ingredients are a bit of a time travel back a few decades. < 1252790745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance: Cane sugar, not HFCS... < 1252790923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, i thought you were in europe... < 1252790949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that means it should be beet sugar, probably... < 1252790972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says cane sugar on the can. < 1252790979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what do you mean? < 1252791007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't HFCS a US thing? < 1252791014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely not. < 1252791035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least more or less everything here is HFCS; I'm sure the top brands of soda over there are too. < 1252791061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the marketing gimmick of this one is that the only artificial ingredient is the carbonation. < 1252791109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Called "Pepsi Raw". Quoth: "Sparkling water, cane sugar, apple extract, colour: plain caramel, natural plant extracts (including natural caffeine and kola nut extract), citric, tartaric and lactic acids, stabiliser: gum arabic and thickener: xanthan gum". < 1252791128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprised as big a company as Pepsi would make something with such, well, non-lame ingredients. < 1252791170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the European Union (EU), HFCS, known as isoglucose, is subject to a production quota. In 2005, this quota was set at 303,000 tons; in comparison, the EU produced an average of 18.6 million tons of sugar annually between 1999 and 2001.[27] Therefore, wide scale replacement of sugar has not occurred in the EU." < 1252791194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK wantonly says fuck-you to all EU resolutions. < 1252791355 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1252791364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less. :P < 1252791366 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1252791376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts on his assertion hat < 1252791378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE OR LESS < 1252791386 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts in his english person in england hat < 1252791388 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1252791401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts ON, not in, his english person in england hat < 1252791403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE < 1252791405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1252791406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESS < 1252791411 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1252791417 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are... amazingly misinformed < 1252791458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or exaggerating for hyperbolic purposes. < 1252791467 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "talking bollocks" < 1252791477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1252791501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, another englishman? i think we are over quota here... < 1252791512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one word < 1252791515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finns < 1252791563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not *that* many of us. < 1252791595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four in here right nw < 1252791596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1252791609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the finns don't have a history of trying to take over the world. no need for a quota. < 1252791626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do we < 1252791630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a history of succeeding < 1252791650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how yoda < 1252791961 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing that HFCS isn't commonplace. It can be put into places where normal sugar can't, is probably bit more unhealthy (normal sugar is pretty bad already). < 1252792077 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems that if sugar-like stuff can be put somewhere, it pretty much will be put there... < 1252792116 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's *LOTS* of stuff in US that have HFCS). < 1252792140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hfcs is way worse than normal sugar < 1252792207 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: Is there liquid cromatogram of HFCS and normal sugar for making comparison... < 1252792263 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess that LC of normal sugar would consist of one huge spike and not much else, while LC of HFCS consists of two huge spikes and all sorts of crap. < 1252792483 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What really makes HFCS worse than normal sugar is that it can be put into places where normal sugar can't. After digestion, the difference will be little more fructose (and fructose is probably not a good thing) and probably the all sorts of crap thats left in it due to incomplete purification. < 1252792489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure none of us knows remotely as near as you do about this :P < 1252792528 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't ask what that remainder crap is. I don't know. < 1252792565 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The process of manufacturing normal sugar is pretty nasty, so it is better be purified very well... < 1252792989 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All kinds of sugar is probably best avoided, except for what is in low-medium carbohydrate vegetables/plants/fruits/berries. < 1252793014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you just say "you should avoid all kinds of sugar entirely"?... < 1252793020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from in fruits etc < 1252793063 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those exceptions being due to those plant parts being fairly good source of some vitamins. < 1252793084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just mean ideally or in practice < 1252793113 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in modern world, more like ideally. In practice, sugar is consumed in huge quantities. < 1252793142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure avoiding all unnatural sugars is anything but extreme... < 1252793247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to install cygwin to C:\Cygwin < 1252793256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That took a while < 1252793265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially given that you can rename < 1252793272 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think that's extreme... Some diets only have few tens of grams per day of total (that's total, not just sugar) carbohydrates... < 1252793382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's more extreme. :P < 1252793397 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since protein can't be eaten in huge quantities to supply enough enery and alcohol has all kinds of nasty side effects, that leaves fat to provode the energy needed... < 1252793437 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proportion of fat in such diet can reach 80 percent of total energy intake. < 1252793543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1252793551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound particularly, uhh, reasonable. < 1252793821 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252793833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a GameBoy game, it works on VisualBoyAdvance but not on Goomba Color. Do you know what's wrong? < 1252793845 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some less bit extreme versions have ~65E% or so fat... < 1252793863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. I am not psychic. < 1252793872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably a bug on line 427. < 1252793886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't expect you were psychic... But can't you check? < 1252793900 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works on mine < 1252793915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1252793943 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you mean my program on line 427? Line 427 of my program is data and surely has no bug (I checked). < 1252793978 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops; I meant 538 < 1252794006 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I've fixed that bug. The repository is at http://code.google.com/p/stinkhorn/ now. < 1252794020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, sweet. < 1252794150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, version downgrade? < 1252794174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah no, I was looking at the diff the wrong way around. < 1252794347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a patch to make it compile with GCC 4.4.1 and glibc 2.10.1: http://funge.pastebin.com/f68b4faa2 < 1252794392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you even check what's wrong with my program, do you know anything about "Goomba Color" emulator? < 1252794427 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't C++ have ? And ? < 1252794458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, C++ has and . And? < 1252794531 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If its C++ code, shouldn't be used instead of and instead of ? < 1252794539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you realise you haven't even given us the code? < 1252794561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "should". Might, if you prefer them, yes. < 1252794564 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O sorry, I forgot. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/GameForth/game/stroker.zip < 1252794668 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can check, please? < 1252795005 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252795182 0 :futurestack!n=futurest@unaffiliated/futurestack JOIN :#esoteric < 1252795211 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252795309 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252796045 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252796095 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody here used Parrot? < 1252796235 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252796274 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used Parrot, for one thing. < 1252796282 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252796893 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252797324 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252797324 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1252797327 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252797410 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252797410 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252797413 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252797635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to make wget update a [3%] type thingy and then remove it before exiting as a progress bar < 1252797641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-q is a little too... frozen < 1252797661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manpage only has two progress types... < 1252797753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know about GameBoy program? < 1252797883 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252798028 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252798036 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make Washizu Mahjong game at anime convention next year, do you want to play game too? < 1252798188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think zzo38 is the only person keeping us on topic < 1252798191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1252798201 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha < 1252798229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed a ha < 1252798238 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1252798243 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha < 1252798252 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, at the start < 1252798256 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1252798313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252798329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I patched a patched version of cyg-apt. < 1252798349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKAGI SHIGERU -vs- WASHIZU IWAO < 1252798371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/614947.txt?key=uks5fzzhqvqroisjww31g < 1252798382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Result: Lightweight Cygwin setup.exe replacement with god-awful code. < 1252798578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/614952.txt?key=cewwbbviaokbqc4wu2fsg Here ya go < 1252798680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need python and wget on top of the standard setup < 1252798747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that the mirror URL isn't the same as what setup.exe displays; google for what it displays + cygwin and you should find the file with the real path < 1252798807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how cygwin still ships with bash 3. It is truly cutting edge. < 1252799533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disadvantage of that installer: doesn't seem to add menu icons < 1252799544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can do that with setup.exe afterwards, I think. < 1252799568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no < 1252799601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just add icons yourself, then < 1252799637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, a rather more pressing issue with mine is that it doesn't seem to actually install < 1252799694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1252800005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, okay < 1252800005 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252800014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't run postinstall scripts and the tar invocation must be failing. < 1252800037 0 :pedm!n=pedm@pool-72-93-92-210.bstnma.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252800124 0 :pedm!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252800160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252800168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1252800173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No use hacking this script up further < 1252800180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to rewrite it in a way I can understand < 1252800193 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252800230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what straca is and what is so negative about it < 1252801210 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252801210 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252801213 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252801939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/sourceware.org/pub/cygwin/setup.ini < 1252801944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks pretty simple < 1252801998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been a while since I coded something "solid" in Python; at least I'm good at architecture. < 1252802184 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252802627 0 :futurestack!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"outta here" < 1252802781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No one had done it before (and it is something useful), so that qualifies as "impossible" to me." < 1252802795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am currently doing the impossible by living one second longer than anyone else before this second. < 1252803207 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252803207 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252803210 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252803347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1252803376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how autoconf etc distinguishes function from var? < 1252803378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, < 1252803387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { (void) symbol; return 0; } < 1252803394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a pretty good way to check if a symbol exists < 1252803403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about function/not function? < 1252803691 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252803691 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252803696 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252804258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: See config.log; it contains the source code for the checks. < 1252804272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was afraid you'd say that. < 1252804280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrmm. Actually, it does that if the check fails. < 1252804283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind. < 1252804289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1252804366 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252804388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears to be doing: int main () { return symbol(); ; return 0; } // and checking for compile errors. < 1252804582 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252804584 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252804603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders porting ghc to cygwin < 1252804612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I can't try out darcs that integrates with cygwin < 1252804662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, there's a Cygwin 1.7 on the way < 1252804671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY FUCK YOU CAN SEARCH PACKAGES IN SETUP.EXE < 1252804674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All else is basically forgiven. < 1252804725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still stuck on bash 3, why am I surprised < 1252804799 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252804974 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252804974 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252805056 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252805056 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252805059 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252805347 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252805350 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252805953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to run ./configure without a shell :-P < 1252806108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poorly. < 1252806197 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252806197 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252806200 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252806266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you think they'll add support for windows batch? can't be worse than ksh -3.4.vendor2.release7.quirkversion.warezpatch < 1252806301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252806323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no but seriously, I think I'll bootstrap my crazy endeavor to compile zsh on stock Windows with msys bash < 1252806360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you hear that < 1252806362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile zsh < 1252806364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on windows < 1252806368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no compatibility layers < 1252806417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am more insane than a flock of fish < 1252806420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a shoal of cows < 1252806436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shoal of MOTHERFUCKING cows. < 1252806521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course now i have to persuade configure that that isn't msys behind the curtain < 1252806604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon it'll hit fork < 1252806607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and die horribly < 1252806678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it just wants curses right now. < 1252806716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs pdcurses < 1252806962 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.75.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252806976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1252806978 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1252806979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252806994 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.75.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252807089 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252807089 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252807092 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252807440 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252807440 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252807443 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252807463 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if graphviz has been ported to a different programming language (than C)? < 1252807474 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252807857 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1252808442 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252808442 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252808447 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252808654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252808874 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252808901 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252809127 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252810196 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252810196 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252810199 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252810530 0 :encoded!n=encoded@reactos/tester/encoded JOIN :#esoteric < 1252810542 0 :encoded!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252811496 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252811929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252812543 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252815013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252815080 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252815639 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252815712 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252816770 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252819743 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252819973 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252820620 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Op. 10 I created two betas ... with Op11, I have a "work in progress preview" :P http://codu.org/music/Op11/GRegor-op11-wipp-1.ogg < 1252820842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh, Gregor opus. < 1252821134 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252821491 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252821799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252822745 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252822757 0 :lifthrasiir!i=Sv8iPdeQ@143.248.133.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252824216 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood___ < 1252828799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252828800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252829167 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252830865 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252831975 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252833552 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252833718 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252833725 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252834820 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252838339 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252839084 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-198.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252839426 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-30-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252840152 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252840356 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252840625 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252841237 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252842132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was the last time you used octal numbers? And in what language? < 1252842598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot recall < 1252842622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 assembler, for a 'open' file-creation mode. It's oh-so-natural in that context. < 1252842655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm, to be precise; surprisingly enough it didn't interpret "0123" as octal, wanted a "0o" prefix there. < 1252842686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm does that mean chmod counts as a use? although i really use a+x style < 1252842761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure chmod counts as a programming language. < 1252842795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall last not-related-to-file-modes use of octal numbers, though. < 1252842854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses there probably was some math puzzle involved, rather than actual programming (except to solve the puzzle) < 1252842863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just me < 1252842941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Share prices are more attuned to magic and many would visit regularly to pray." Today's mezzacotta seems related to the current crisis somehow... < 1252843057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252843088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc :D < 1252843150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 18.77 parsecs in light years < 1252843153 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18.77 Parsecs = 61.2209126 light years < 1252843490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting poll variation < 1252843697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He blings an army of crones to our cause" XD < 1252844259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252846767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know unicode code point of = but with three lines? < 1252846789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't able to find it after several minutes of searching < 1252847431 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-20-254.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252847780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+2261. < 1252847787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's right there in the mathematical operators block. < 1252847819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :≡, "identical to". < 1252847932 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-20-254.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252848344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1252848611 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252849102 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252850486 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252852103 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1252852831 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252853517 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252853649 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252854076 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92.236.187.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252854181 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-30-86.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252854958 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252855236 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252856698 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252861500 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252861834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252862057 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252862108 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252862422 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252863377 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252863498 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252863541 0 :atrapado!n=roper@19.55.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252864223 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252864320 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252864366 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252865495 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:58:24 i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly < 1252865542 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like that; I could get back at the people who made the .NET MenuStrip and ToolStrip controls, which emulate that horrible "Office-style" look < 1252865557 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that is so, I'll have to start faking native widgets < 1252865560 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a widget? < 1252865582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a gadget, except more widdly. < 1252865623 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drawing real-looking menus on Vista+ isn't _that_ hard; I've done it. < 1252866959 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252867021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly < 1252867040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realize that would lead some people to make a lot of them, right? < 1252867040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they only try to fake native widgets once/ < 1252867110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If that is so, I'll have to start faking native widgets < 1252867147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP STEALING MY JOKES < 1252867152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN ADVANCE < 1252867214 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1252867214 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252867348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.verb2verbe.com/conjugation/english-verb/snore.aspx <-- FAIL < 1252867365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1252867412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was trying to look up if snore was a strong verb i didn't know about since someone on the iwc forum inflected it as such) < 1252867463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, well, that thing in the link was not among the options < 1252867644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it seems to be a specific error for that word, not for other verbs ending in e < 1252867696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you disobey, you will be snoreed. < 1252869131 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252869929 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252872243 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252872601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 01:58:24 i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly <-- could I have one for "uses boost"? < 1252872639 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252872668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, what? libboost is a absolutely horrible pile of bloat and anti-design-patterns < 1252872679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like taking the worst of C++ and making it even worse < 1252872681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He uses boost in Stinkhorn :-P < 1252872692 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do agree, though :P < 1252872704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the worst part is that there is always one game or one program that you need that uses libbost < 1252872706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boost* < 1252872711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't avoid installing it < 1252872751 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It don't actually use the libraries, though, just the headers, because boost takes hours to build < 1252872757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often you end up needing a "newer than in package repo" version too, so you have to install the -dev packages for it as well (this only apply to binary distros obviously) < 1252872769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, I thought C++ already did? < 1252872819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, why the hell are you using the libboost headers though? < 1252872876 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things like shared_pointer, noncopyable, pool_allocator < 1252872930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, what are they for? < 1252872979 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smart pointer class, make class noncopyable and better allocator if one has large number of objects for the same class. < 1252872990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, oh and writing a pool allocator that allocated fixed sized chunks from large pools allocated with malloc was a 10 minute job in C. And about 40 lines of code. < 1252873019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yours probably isn't quite as ultra-optimized as the one in Boost, though. < 1252873035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is in cfunge... < 1252873035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1252873052 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and lexical_cast, which is ugly and I should probably remove < 1252873060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, lexical cast? < 1252873062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1252873094 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically ToString and FromString that uses string streams < 1252873108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, smart pointers? Is that basically transparent ref count? < 1252873121 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the data type can be written to an ostream, you can convert it to a string, and the same for istream. < 1252873128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or since it is C++, I bet it isn't very transparent in practise < 1252873166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is stinkhorn on the mycology results page? < 1252873199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252873232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, stinkhorn sounds like it uses all the worst features of C++ < 1252873236 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D < 1252873247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, why... < 1252873255 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask me 3 years ago < 1252873267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, also what is the point of making a class non-copyable? < 1252873278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just don't do it if you don't want to < 1252873289 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that simple in C++. < 1252873300 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It manages resources that don't make sense when copied? < 1252873322 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ makes temporary copies of objects all over the place if you're not careful, for one < 1252873325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well ok, why copy it then? can't you keep track of what you are doing yourself? < 1252873329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, oh right that < 1252873336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it is. < 1252873470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw how could boost's pool allocator be more optimised? < 1252873486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better algorithm? if so, what one? < 1252873495 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, and that's precisely why I'd use theirs instead of one of my own. < 1252873502 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should design a language with prepositions at some point. < 1252873514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, sounds nice < 1252873533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even C has "for" < 1252873535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1252873551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think Warrigal meant like "assign that to it" < 1252873575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1252873591 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that" and "it" are both pronouns, not prepositions. < 1252873604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed < 1252873606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252873617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language with pronouns would be nice < 1252873636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and applescript already has prepositions iirc < 1252873712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D has as many as "in", "for", and "with"! < 1252873758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell only has "in" and "of"... maybe I should re-evaluate my preferred language < 1252873770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about "while" < 1252873785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a preposition? < 1252873789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, what is it? < 1252873806 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl1' with (>>) map (.) forkIO with hello onto names < 1252873807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a conjunction, in the typical use. < 1252873825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it can be a noun ("a while ago") but is it a noun in "while you are doing that, ..." < 1252873833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1252873862 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't know what part of speech it is in the subordinate clause "while you are doing that". < 1252873869 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjunction? Adverb? < 1252873877 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjunct-o-verb(TM)? < 1252873892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjunction. < 1252873918 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do that with other conjunctions. And there's a lot you can do with other conjunctions that you can't do with this. < 1252873926 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess new parts of speech are long overdue. < 1252873950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you are doing that", "because you are doing that", etc... < 1252873966 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or you are doing that". < 1252873987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, presumably there are subclasses among the conjunctions. < 1252873990 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am eating some soup while a sandwich." < 1252873995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1252874022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, what word would work there? < 1252874026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"with"? < 1252874030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is a preposition right? < 1252874036 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1252874038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep: "while" is a subordinating conjunction, "or" is a coordinating conjunction << http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_conjunction < 1252874046 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or" would work there. < 1252874050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252874057 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "or" is a conjunction. < 1252874064 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A coordinating one, I see. < 1252874137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the word "maybe" < 1252874142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what class that is < 1252874148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adverb. < 1252874152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252874209 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a thorough adverb. < 1252874214 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the thoroughest. < 1252874228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, ? < 1252874398 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1252874739 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252875199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suggest you update your mycology results page < 1252875210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you do < 1252875211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it says cfunge doesn't implement NCRS < 1252875217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it does since months < 1252875252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it says cfunge 0.3.3 doesn't implement NCRS, which remains true < 1252875264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1252876291 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252876608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252876814 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252876842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hird of the sheeple < 1252876853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:42:12 when was the last time you used octal numbers? And in what language? < 1252876854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday < 1252876857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod < 1252876876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doubtful that is a programming language < 1252876887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vus deja < 1252876890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a language at all < 1252876892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1252876899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Unix command that takes some input and a description of what to do of it and then outputs output accordingly. < 1252876911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like awk, sed, or find. < 1252876917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or cat? < 1252876922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or ls? < 1252876927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat does not take a description of what to do with the input < 1252876928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly even cd < 1252876931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls, yes < 1252876933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd, no < 1252876937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cat sure do < 1252876939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat -e < 1252876941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1252876950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gno, it doesn't. < 1252876952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that replaces control codes with ^F < 1252876958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1252876962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. < 1252876964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcat dose. < 1252876969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does < 1252876977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And GNU is Not Unix in more than implementation./ < 1252876982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1252876991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnaturally. < 1252876993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about cat -u then? < 1252876998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, kreally? < 1252877001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: posixcrap. < 1252877012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? < 1252877014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gnearly so < 1252877029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -u is not unix, -u is a crappy hack < 1252877030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, knever! < 1252877051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cat came back from Berkeley waving flags" --Rob Pike < 1252877058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -u is POSIX. SuS is a superset of POSIX. < 1252877071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither follow the unix philosophy. < 1252877082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and who is Rob Pike? < 1252877082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix is older than the bullshit pile known as POSIX. < 1252877085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252877095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are disqualified from EVER speaking about what is Unixy or not. < 1252877114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you know who Rob Pike is? < 1252877114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robe Pike, member of the original Unix team. < 1252877116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rob < 1252877119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252877122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1252877127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is perfectly normal < 1252877129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523 isn't arguing based on historical grounds what is unixy or not < 1252877131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tends not to care about the names of programmers < 1252877134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are < 1252877140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I'm not. You are < 1252877144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252877148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course unix existed before POSIX < 1252877164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these days, POSIX is very important in defining what *nix is < 1252877200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i never answered your idiotic question. < 1252877230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, chmod is not a programming language still < 1252877256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realise there is a chmod system call, retard? < 1252877264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and? < 1252877267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: now you say that, you make me want to try to make chmod into a programming language < 1252877270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has that got to do with it < 1252877273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I seriously doubt it has any power at all < 1252877279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.... maybe if you had a maze of symlinks < 1252877280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: THAT TAKES AN OCTAL NUMBER AS A PARAMETER? < 1252877284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, around deadfish? < 1252877292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something that iterated over a directory structure, running all the executable things there < 1252877303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: THAT TAKES AN OCTAL NUMBER AS A PARAMETER? <-- yes < 1252877308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I suspect even like that, chmod will be less powerful than Deadfish < 1252877312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int chmod(const char *path, mode_t mode); < 1252877321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where mode_t is in fact an integer < 1252877334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and you don't see how this is relevant? < 1252877343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it is a thin wrapper for the system call < 1252877348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are your neurons actually firing, AnMaster < 1252877350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is, for example, cd < 1252877352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been paying attention; someone summarise the arguments? < 1252877366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while ls does a bit more work, with formatting and such < 1252877367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AnMaster is dense, I'm not < 1252877376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is a condensed version of the opposite summary AnMaster will give you) < 1252877389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm still waiting for ehird to get to the point < 1252877417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the issue seems to be that in " when was the last time you used octal numbers? And in what language?", ehird's answer to the first question means there's no really sensible answer to the second < 1252877417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is it more like a programming language than, cd or cat < 1252877425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, there is < 1252877428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that the chmod call was from the commandline, rather than, say, from C or Perl < 1252877435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take, for example, bash < 1252877440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod 777 file < 1252877442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, bash would be another possibility < 1252877450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just as valid a programming statement as chmod(file, 0o777) < 1252877453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever prefix < 1252877454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1252877463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that answer is valid < 1252877474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, using it in chmod(1) absolutely counts as a valid reason to use it in a programming language, especially as you can use it in bash < 1252877476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my point < 1252877476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... philosophical question: would you consider typical Makefiles to be programs? < 1252877476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but chmod itself is no programming language < 1252877480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1252877484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the Make language < 1252877484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is what ehird claimed < 1252877486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to ones designed specifically for programming < 1252877488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is declarative < 1252877493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to think yes, too < 1252877494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also has really weird semantics < 1252877511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't at least gnu make TC? < 1252877511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is make TC, by the way? < 1252877523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure all makes are TC. < 1252877524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no for traditional make (probably due to lack of storage), yes for GNU make < 1252877529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless $(shell ) is some gnu-only thing < 1252877535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it probably is < 1252877553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think traditional make would try to substitute the value of a variable called ( in there < 1252877559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure < 1252877561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no. < 1252877563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make's quoting rules are annoying < 1252877567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do $(foo) for vars in make, always. < 1252877571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a gnuism, that's a makeism. < 1252877580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1252877582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1252877584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting confuse < 1252877584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from things like $@ < 1252877585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*confused < 1252877589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am disappoint. < 1252877590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, time to go home < 1252877595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252877695 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebGL... Oh great. Obnoxious websites, making previously non-security-sensitive code (majority of 3D "driver" runs inside the application) remotely scriptable, etc... < 1252877742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely, we should stop designing technologies immediately if it turns out they can be used to be obnoxious in any way < 1252877754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252877778 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That latter (non-security-sensitive -> remotely scriptable) might be actually worse... < 1252877796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By driver do you mean your system's? < 1252877805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, any specific security issue? < 1252877806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because running that in the browser is bizarre < 1252877863 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No specific issue, but taking code that previously was not security sensitive and then making it remotely scriptable triggers my hinky detector.... < 1252877877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What code? < 1252877890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a large chuck of the opengl driver runs in libGL.so iirc. Which is inside the browser. The kernel/X bit of the driver is mostly talking to hardware and making sure more than one opengl app works side by side nicely. < 1252877900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1252877906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect libGL.so to be quite solid. < 1252877909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is all IIRC. Note that < 1252877920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't figure out how it'd be a security flaw. < 1252877944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway keeping most stuff out of kernel is good for security (obviously) < 1252877949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same for X < 1252877973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since X runs as root for hardware access (though that is starting to change) < 1252877994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is a shitpile, no point patching it up. It's insecure by design. < 1252877999 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If code is not security sensitive, do you code very carefully to avoid buffer overflows (and even coding "very carefully" often isn't enough)? < 1252878007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and libGL.so = solid? < 1252878013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1252878021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Relatively, compared to the rest of the system. < 1252878023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least not for nvidia libGL. I can say that much < 1252878030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: In a driver running in a shitload of programs? Yah, I do. < 1252878097 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Normal drivers are usually security-sensitive. libGL.so isn't. < 1252878111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Because it's used only in vidya gaems or something? < 1252878118 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until something (like WebGL) makes it remotely scriptable... < 1252878150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See ^ < 1252878154 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it runs inside memory space of process using it and doesn't accept external untrusted input. < 1252878194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, most of the stuff libGL does is keeping state, consider how you do opengl programming ehird... < 1252878243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course, translating it in some way when you finished adding polygons, and then sending it to X server) < 1252878258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as much of a security hole as anything else. < 1252878270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it wasn't before. that was the point. < 1252878272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By your argument, we shouldn't add new features to the browser: they're not coded super-carefully < 1252878278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@Ilari, not AnMaster) < 1252878286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is a straw man on what Ilari said. < 1252878289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not < 1252878293 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, probably sending the polygon data directly to graphics card (maybe signaling kernel to DMA the whole buffer). < 1252878294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it is < 1252878299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn what "strawman" is, it's the exact same argument he used < 1252878313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, it probably goes through X using shm < 1252878334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it isn't exactly the argument he used < 1252878354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assertion match! Woohoo < 1252878365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it was about when it exposes hardware access, not new features in general < 1252878367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite different < 1252878371 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Browser (or at least many parts of it) is security-sensitive. < 1252878384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding something like canvas is quite different than canvas3d < 1252878401 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Especially the javascript interpretter. And look at its security track record... < 1252878425 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Non-security-sensitive code would probably be much much worse if exposed to scripting... < 1252878440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: uh, the js interpreter is way way less solid than libgl... < 1252878523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, libgl hasn't been the target of exploits so far really. Because it tends to be hard to get at from a browser, unless you already used some exploit. And no server software is likely to have it loaded. < 1252878553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that "less solid" doesn't mean much < 1252878554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude. Ilari is arguing that the JS interpreter is more solidly-coded than libgl. < 1252878559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot entertain such insanity. < 1252878573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JS interpreter in all browsers I know of gives no eye to security. < 1252878575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*give < 1252878579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interpreters < 1252878580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm arguing that the js interpreter has been the target of a lot more exploiting attempts than libgl < 1252878611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is like saying "mac os 9 is very secure, there are only around 15 viruses for it, compared to lots for windows 98" < 1252878622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even windows xp or such < 1252878624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are you arguing for or against Ilari? I can only construe that as against < 1252878630 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If it didn't give any eye to security, attackers would *walk* all over it. < 1252878637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: they do < 1252878673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, neither < 1252878691 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Its quite insecure in practice, but attackers don't really walk all over it. < 1252878705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal... didn't say anything. < 1252878711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed... < 1252878712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody starting with a W said anything :P < 1252878721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, w is next to e in qwerty. < 1252878725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. < 1252878735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Warrigal is the first alphabetical completion. < 1252878737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STILL. < 1252878737 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops... :-/ < 1252878749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1252878753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ilari has a point here < 1252878771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that libgl hasn't been something available to exploit before < 1252878788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the js interpreter always is there < 1252878816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpng is another one that has been targeted. Same for libjpeg and so on < 1252878858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but libgl has just not been something that was ever loaded into any of the apps you would target (server software, browsers, email clients, ...) < 1252878890 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all exploits using JS are in javascript interpretter itself. It can also assist in exploiting other bugs... But those are still in security-sensitive parts. < 1252878911 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libpng, libjpeg, libz, all secuirty sensitive... < 1252878932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thus liubgl is less carefully reviewed by both good and bad guys for security issues than something that is easier to get at < 1252878952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yes and those have been quite well reviewed, and had a number of CVEs < 1252878968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but libgl had no CVE afaik < 1252879031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also libgl bugs are common. but so far, the worst that led to was misrendering, or in worst case, segfault < 1252879036 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252879049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would not call libgl solid < 1252879050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1252879059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more solid than a JS impl. < 1252879061 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if some piece of code is written in language where buffer overflows are possible (without exploiting the runtime), don't use extraordinary measures to be buffer-overflow-free, function in security-sensitive function and don't have CVEs, then probably they haven't been audited throughly enough. < 1252879062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the v1 iPhone OS was jailbroken with a hole in... libjpeg? Or libtiff or something. < 1252879101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You went to jailbreakme.com and it showed an image; it had the invalid image/404 icon on it, but your phone froze, a progress bar came up, and jailbreaked it. < 1252879105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*jailbroke < 1252879107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and there is more than one libGL. My laptop and desktop use different ones < 1252879118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic open source one, and nvidia one < 1252879164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the point you are trying to make here? it seems you are arguing for Ilari now. < 1252879175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just commenting. < 1252879198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run browser as a different user account < 1252879202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI < 1252879210 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, that diversity probably doesn't protect that much, because attack doesn't need to commit on one... And there are probably vendor strings available anyhow... < 1252879228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it possible to be surprised. You probably run everything as a different user account, in case someone exploits your IRC client. < 1252879235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, my point was that nvidia one is a binary blob < 1252879237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse < 1252879253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One wonders how the fuck you expect people to exploit you browser more than any other piece of software if you disable JS. < 1252879270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you just provided an example < 1252879279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More than any other piece of software" < 1252879286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No part of AnMaster's system apart from his browser displays images. < 1252879288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astonishing. < 1252879290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yes irc is a different acount. < 1252879293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :account* < 1252879296 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: The standard-issue browser doesn't *support* JS. It just doesn't have it disabled, it just plain does not support it. < 1252879311 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*standard-issue browser I use < 1252879316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cool, it's not even possible to satirize you. < 1252879317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what browser is that? < 1252879327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynx, I guess. < 1252879328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or w3m. < 1252879330 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Links2, both in text and graphics mode. < 1252879331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or elinks. < 1252879333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or links. < 1252879341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah < 1252879368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, any CVE for links2? < 1252879385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc(1) has no security flaws, at least as a client. < 1252879395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor does sed if you want prettier pages. < 1252879422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you know nc has no buffer overflow? < 1252879433 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1252879435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sed for that matter < 1252879454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and, the sed script must be reviewed for faulty code < 1252879465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because nc is some 6,000 lines of sharp code. < 1252879469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not buffer overflow, of course, but otherwise bad code < 1252879474 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: AFAIK, there is. < 1252879474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of that is server-based. < 1252879479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, heh < 1252879533 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, there have been security bug reports against Links2. < 1252879536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:10:01 01:58:24 i want a button that sodomises everyone who tries to fake native widgets repeatedly <-- could I have one for "uses boost"? < 1252879538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boost isn't that bad. < 1252879545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For C++. < 1252879560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I think he thought you meant there was a buffer flow in nc < 1252879562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*overflow < 1252879573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:03 ehird, how do you know nc has no buffer overflow? < 1252879575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:04 AnMaster: AFAIK, there is. < 1252879577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:04 Ilari, heh < 1252879581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ilari: I think he thought you meant there was a buffer flow in nc <-- no < 1252879583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252879586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not stupid < 1252879603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently you're telepathic < 1252879636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it followed from the context of highlights < 1252879653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, nobody ever replies to a message not directed at them < 1252879661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No matter how old the highlight it is it must be that < 1252879679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now you are just silly, it was crystal clear from the context what was intended < 1252879700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wasn't, because it was non-obvious to me, for instance. < 1252879710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a message makes sense as a response to the latest highlight, assuming it was intended for that is reasonable. < 1252879718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find that true in practice. < 1252879719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that says more about you, than about the context. < 1252879720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:16:30 Asztal, oh and writing a pool allocator that allocated fixed sized chunks from large pools allocated with malloc was a 10 minute job in C. And about 40 lines of code. < 1252879728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, why not waste 10 minutes to produce non-optimal code < 1252879740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using an optimised ready-made version? inconceivable < 1252879756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well note C vs. C++ for example. < 1252879761 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of one program I wrote. Immediately after receive buffer there was PROT_NONE page. So any overflow of receive buffer is instant SIGSEGV (and the program had no SIGSEGV handler)... < 1252879766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:32 Asztal, stinkhorn sounds like it uses all the worst features of C++ < 1252879773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be defining that as "everything apart from classes" < 1252879812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts ehird on ignore for now, until the nonsense log reading comments finished < 1252879823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read on, you will see that Asztal agreed for example < 1252879829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea. You might read something you disagree with. < 1252879853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see! Asztal made a statement supporting "stinkhorn using the worst features of C++", therefore my comment about the surrounding context in which you seemed to dislike everything that wasn't classes must therefore be false. < 1252879856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing. < 1252879877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:22:05 Ilari, well ok, why copy it then? can't you keep track of what you are doing yourself? < 1252879885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and that's why AnMaster defines every type in his C program as int < 1252879954 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252880114 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, if you want to see horrible C++ code, look at Firefox code. Not using those "horrible" C++ features results quite horrible code... < 1252880147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XPCOM fuck yeah < 1252880155 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Firefox does it because bad C++ compilers don't support pretty much anything on top of C besides classes... < 1252880156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaking your mind and shit yeah < 1252880196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, firefox does what? < 1252880227 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252880254 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to really test C++ compiler, test wheither it survives some tricky partial template specialization. ICEs and segfaults ahead if the compiler isn't really stable... < 1252880276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox's source code is pretty much entirely awful. < 1252880297 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IIRC, at least some time ago (probably still), it didn't even use exceptions(!). < 1252880299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shudder to think that that's the result of a *rewrite* of it... < 1252880320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, heh < 1252880343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, eh? when was it rewritten? < 1252880355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It was originally Netscape 4. < 1252880365 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still doesn't use them, AFAIK, but they're working on automated rewriting for that < 1252880371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mozilla Project rewrote the entire thing. < 1252880386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah that far back. yeah that was probably horrible. < 1252880425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, rewrote each part one at a time? or started from scratch entirely? < 1252880451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scratch. < 1252880453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Started from scratch. < 1252880460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netscape 3's code was altogether better, from what I hear. < 1252880463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what was the point of having the netscape code there at all? < 1252880468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netscape 4 is massively a result of the second system syndrome. < 1252880469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much. < 1252880475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252880576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the only bit of code that remained was Netscape's "NGLayout" code. NGLayout was Netscape's attempt to rewrite the layout code. < 1252880577 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C++ is not just C with classes. The proper programming style is quite different. < 1252880581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It went on to become XUL. < 1252880682 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why does Firefox seem to be the most bloated and resource-hungry web browser? Konqi even with all of its KDE stuff seems lighter... < 1252880703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's poorly written. < 1252880765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome is double-plus good. < 1252880767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I use konqueror usually, unless some site doesn't work well in it < 1252880779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but uses quite a bit of memory due to the process-per-tab thing. < 1252880795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Midori or something if you want more straight WebKit without that (and also without the fast JS), I guess. < 1252880801 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much dirty memory does Chrome use? < 1252880825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION about:memory < 1252880834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Define "dirty"; I don't think Windows has a notion of it < 1252880881 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much all OSes with virtual memory have notion of clean and dirty memory... < 1252880916 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dity memory => Pages that have been written and thus can't be discarded from memory (but must be swapped out). < 1252880927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, real memory: private 229,732kiB + shared 5,431kiB = 235,163kiB; nine tabs (one is a popup from another tab and interacts with JS stuff so is in the same process) and one process for the browser. < 1252880939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those pages are all quite heavy. < 1252880952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtual memory: private 335,984kiB, mapped 100,204kiB. < 1252880964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All direct quotes from about:memory. < 1252880967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with formatting. < 1252880983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't measure it in Task Manager, as they're all separate processes. < 1252881020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The values range for each process from around 18MB to 53MB. I guess that the ~3.5MB one is the browser process. < 1252881024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MB, not MiB.) < 1252881033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konqueror's not a stellar web browser, but it manages to be much less bloated than Firefox simply by merit of *making design decisions*. < 1252881033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is a good example of feature creep. < 1252881073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :( < 1252881077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's nice and simple; the only interface apart from a tabbar and back/forwards, refresh, bookmark, the bar (both address and search) and a go button is two icon menus: a document and a wrench. < 1252881093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The document is zoom, copy/paste, encoding, developer tools, etc: page stuff. < 1252881107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wrench is new tab, full screen, about, exit, options, etc: browser stuff. < 1252881128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very well designed. < 1252881196 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its possible to make a process that would have private memory >1GiB (mostly residen't or not), but only few pages (~10KiB) of dirty memory. < 1252881205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's not like the memory usage is correlated with bad performance; having the fastest rendering and JS engine and using native Windows widgets (albeit restyled) it's very fast. < 1252881215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Probably all the tabs I haven't used are paged out. < 1252881222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*add recently after used < 1252881235 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dirty memory is dirty memory even after its paged out. < 1252881246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a memory system guy, so I wouldn't know./ < 1252881248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/ < 1252881386 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have N copies of some process, with everything resident, the memory usage would be union of all clean memory plus sum of all dirty memory. < 1252881406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, chrome does note the shared memory total. < 1252881420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, those totals include about:memory. < 1252881440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 5,250kiB of the 249,710kiB non-virtual memory is shared, according to it. < 1252881450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not a lot. < 1252881504 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least on Linux, shared libraries are mapped as private mappings. But all clean (non-dirty) pages are shareable. < 1252881547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows probably just uses shaman magic. < 1252881592 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking qbittorrent process I have running here. Its VMSIZE is ~163M, shared is ~4M. But only ~30M of its memory is dirty. < 1252881597 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252881849 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The private/shared is not accurate measurement of how much memory two processes share and how much they don't. < 1252881873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but I can't give you better without either bloating my system with software to measure it or hacking up something myself, sorry. < 1252881904 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, windows doesn't have equivalent of Linux /proc/X/smaps < 1252882048 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(list of VMAs process has plus memory usage information for each). < 1252882181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, does apt have pluggable backends or do you need only one server format/type/etc, I wonder. < 1252882200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of hacking up my own tool I could write an apt module backed by the cygwin package lists... < 1252882229 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, apt can be pointed to servers on net and to CD-type media... < 1252882240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the backing format it looks at is the same there. < 1252882251 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's designed for dpkg format, yes < 1252882254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write a script to convert it on a server, but "meh". < 1252882260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's the package format, not the package list. < 1252882278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.debs are just tars, and so are decompressed cygwin packages, so I could easily hack that up client-side. < 1252882281 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1252882286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the package list is quite different, I think. < 1252882292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean the package list is a specific format < 1252882305 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the format of the Debian control file < 1252882310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1252882316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apt is quite modular, isn't it? < 1252882341 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1252882345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252882345 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never bothered < 1252882371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it's impractical for me to maintain a mirror of all Cygwin packages in .deb format, but I guess I could handle converting the cygwin.ini. < 1252882401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apt passes its packages off to dpkg, whereas it handles the package lists itself, so I expect exactly the wrong things are modular. Grr. < 1252882420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1252882462 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've hacked together my own tool for this before, it's not hard < 1252882479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tool for what? < 1252882486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Converting every single Cygwin package to .deb? < 1252882500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not maintaining and serving thousands of large files on a server . < 1252882502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*server. < 1252882520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for dependency analysis in a client-side package manager < 1252882542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean an apt replacement. < 1252882553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I can write my own tool; that's what I was doing. It will not be as flexible, powerful or comfortable as apt. < 1252882570 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't classify it as a replacement, but yes < 1252882590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just steal the apt source < 1252882593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin IS basically a Linux system, and Linux systems deserve apt. < 1252882608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Of course I'll have to patch apt. I just hope that it's modular, so I can only patch the relevant bits. < 1252882632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be fun, actually. Install dpkg with Cygwin, dpkg -i apt-cygwin.deb, vi /etc/sources/apt.list. < 1252882642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apt-get update, etc.) < 1252883066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to tell Sumatra PDF to reset the settings for this document to my global default? < 1252883175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1252883742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, if there are things like bb4win, are there tiling window managers for windows? < 1252883754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Windows < 1252883797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An assault weapon is a political [1][citation needed] term" <-- err ok. Whatever. < 1252883800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night btw < 1252883807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1252883816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not Finnish, stop that. < 1252883834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1252883834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, you're still here. < 1252883836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1252883839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Told you. < 1252883843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really leaving now < 1252883844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1252883846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-><- < 1252883847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suure. < 1252883997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->@--/\-Z__|\--> < 1252884007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Windows has hover-to-focus built-in. < 1252884268 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252884270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a little build system for a fake program using sh to configure a config.mk file... < 1252884274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To see if it works. < 1252884327 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-30-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252884464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252884634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.windowsizer.com/ ;; would be nicer if it was one of the linux ones ported. Still downloading to try out. < 1252884813 0 :fizzie!i=fis@83.150.124.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252884826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, that thing doesn't auatomatically tile. < 1252885051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I'm going to maintain my own set of cygwin .debs < 1252885055 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it any better than 'Show windows side by side' on the task bar then? :| < 1252885070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: It can do more arrangements and has preferred arrangements and stuff. < 1252885086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it certainly doesn't automatically handle resizes... hmm... maybe it doesn't work on >XP < 1252885119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252885124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading the site, almost certainly < 1252885127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that < 1252885132 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that it says "Re-sizing one window automatically resizes adjacent windows", sounds broken < 1252885180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252885182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1252885207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... if a deb is just an .ar with some special stuff and a cygwin package is just a .tar.bz2 with some special stuff, it can't be too hard to convert them < 1252885209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs cygwin 1.7 < 1252885221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and uses the Experimental package versions < 1252885224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still ancient, but eh < 1252885277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure anything is tagged experimental < 1252885851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exp tags everything as "Skip". Fuck that, then. < 1252885873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Cygwin 1.7 "current" is the most up-to-date Cygwin you can get. < 1252885887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now featuring bash 3 plus 0.0.0.1 extra from the past release. < 1252885924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apt is rather easy to patch, I *believe*. < 1252885935 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252885947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's definitely a good idea; Cygwin's setup.exe sucks. < 1252885962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of Cygwin sucks, it's a shoddy system. < 1252885973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1252885985 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252885997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the only alternative, MSYS, is just a really old fork of Cygwin and sucks more (to compile executables for it you need to use a patched gcc 2; nobody bothers to update it because MSYS is supposed to be just a tool with which to run MinGW) < 1252886060 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU bash, version 2.04.0(1)-release (i686-pc-msys) < 1252886068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah. < 1252886087 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252886165 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252886191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially annoying is that no terminal program for Windows has the balls to try and emulate cmd.exe properly, so for calling out to Windows command-line programs you have to use cmd.exe. < 1252886211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and MSYS has one huge advantage over Cygwin: it automatically translates Unix pathnames if you call a Windows tool. < 1252886226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of this $(cygpath -xyzzy ...) bullshit. < 1252886272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't msys deprecated or something? < 1252886290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252886295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But. < 1252886299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:53 But the only alternative, MSYS, is just a really old fork of Cygwin and sucks more (to compile executables for it you need to use a patched gcc 2; nobody bothers to update it because MSYS is supposed to be just a tool with which to run MinGW) < 1252886301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54 GNU bash, version 2.04.0(1)-release (i686-pc-msys) < 1252886303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54 Fuck yeah. < 1252886313 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252886325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still supported and a prominent feature of the site, yes. < 1252886343 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1252886355 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252886384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, I just want bash, coreutils like stuff, vi, rxvt and a few other things. < 1252886431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has a little bit of POSIX but not enough for those. Well, vi will compile fine and coreutils shouldn't require ginormous patches, but bash and rxvt? Crapshoot. < 1252886461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a native X server for Windows, Xming, but rxvt has been patched to have a Windows GUI so that isn't even needed; it's the rest of rxvt that'd be the problem. < 1252886944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Protesters at Washington yesterday, arguing vaguely against the protest, seem to think that their protest was the "biggest crowd to march on Washington". < 1252886954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some ten thousand people. < 1252886976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protesting against the protest? Wut < 1252886983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/protest/President/ < 1252886988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. This way's more fun. < 1252886992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I've seen crowds orders of magnitude larger march on Washington. < 1252886996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Concerned Citizens Against Concerned Citizens Against Taxes" < 1252887010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Taxpayers Opposing Concerned Citizens Against Concerned Citizens Against Taxes" < 1252887019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"March For the Opposition of Taxpayers Opposing Concerned Citizens Against Concerned Citizens Against Taxes" < 1252887154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polity partics (he wrote, before looking at that and sporrecting his coonerism), party politics in the US are just tedious. Both parties are so crazy that there's no way to comprehend them, so it's best to ignore them. < 1252887372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Democrats are less crazy. (... in much the same way that a schizophrenic is less crazy than a schizophrenic serial killer) < 1252887410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In much the same way as a schizophrenic serial killer is less crazy than a schizophrenic serial killer that urinates on their victims beforehand. < 1252887612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not schizophrenic, and neither am i, and besides they never found any bodies < 1252887677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you are just imagining you are reading this. maybe _you_ are the schizophrenic one. < 1252887690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right. < 1252887748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i seem to be hearing a voice. it said, "you're right." but then, that's what they always say. they don't dare anything else. < 1252887816 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252887838 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252887900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/cygwine/ super! < 1252887914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know how it's more like wine, though < 1252887934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We don't really need two different installers, so I hope you find a way to merge your efforts with those working on setup.exe." < 1252887951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to store it for a few years before using it. < 1252887955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not get rid of shitup.exe and rename this setup.exe, there's nothing salvageable in the other... < 1252888183 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF ... < 1252888193 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I saw "cygwine", I thought of dozens of awesome possibilities. < 1252888196 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was not one of them. < 1252888242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define cyg < 1252888244 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Cygnus (, genitive Cygni ) is a northern constellation. Its name is Latin for swan. One of the most recognizable constellations of the northern ... \ [18]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyg \ < 1252888280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you make wine from swans anyway < 1252888364 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Gut the swan < 1252888374 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Throw out the skin and muscle < 1252888379 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) Put the guts in water and shake vigorously < 1252888381 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) Add yeast < 1252888384 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5) Wait 15 years < 1252888386 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6) Enjoy! < 1252890229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I don't think it works that way. < 1252890234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not enough sugar) < 1252890267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but swans are sweet < 1252890304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when they swoop < 1252890387 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252890485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252890549 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252890580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'm pretty sure wine will run on cygwin, anyway < 1252890587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cygwin runs in wine < 1252890592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can nest as much as you want < 1252890602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs a preferences Dialog < 1252890603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dialog < 1252890628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed - Slow [ ] Astronomically slow < 1252890684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I like the nice wx-based GUI, that's really pretty." // yeah, apart from the really crickly edges on the button images... < 1252890693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are people blind or something? < 1252890738 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "speed of fusion in star 100 times the mass of Jupiter" "Astronomically slow"? :-> < 1252890761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astronomically obviously means "grossly hugely". < 1252890766 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All things are relative. < 1252890790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to force himself not to copy/paste < 1252890828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why < 1252890856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It leads to bugs and is ugly < 1252890857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/crack_pairings.htm < 1252890860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, code. < 1252890877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including table 4 incorrectly referring to table 3 < 1252890886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pregnancy (use male pregnancy if needed)" < 1252890891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, /what/. < 1252890897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not my idea < 1252890907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go blame the people at http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111631 < 1252890909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The above line is singular justification for not setting +c on this channel and mandating that ^I is italics, not inverse.) < 1252890964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wtf, did you really not think of writing one function over many tables? < 1252890990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did, but some of the tables have things like using the initial table, and others don't. < 1252890991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, using Math.floor on random values? < 1252890998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1252891037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while since I did any Javascript. I used another page that I wrote, again a while after I did any Javascript, to jog my memory < 1252891051 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252891063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at randomness :|| < 1252891118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it fail? I really don't know < 1252891134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes http://code.google.com/p/cygwin-rurban/source/browse/trunk/contrib/cyginstall/cyginstall for his own purposes < 1252891154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you should round < 5 down, > 5 up to retain the ... thingy of the original number < 1252891162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise i'm pretty sure it's unevenly distributed < 1252891170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ==5, do whatever < 1252891666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think that matters much except at the edges, where it might depend < 1252891694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1252891698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use Math.round or something :P < 1252891744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your floats are in a range [0 .. n) then you definitely want floor to get {0, ..., n-1} values < 1252891757 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252891764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rounding would fail by having half length intervals at the edges < 1252891776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to weak the range afterwards in JS < 1252891779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what he does < 1252891783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's irrelevant < 1252891819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevertheless you want those int values you actually use to come from same length float subintervals < 1252891829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1252891832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean < 1252891836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS only has one range, iirc < 1252891843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for random numbers < 1252891853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0, 1) i presume < 1252891872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, think so < 1252891893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is inclusive, () is exclusive, right? < 1252891897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252891901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ it includes 1.0, but I'm not sure < 1252891949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floor(n*rnd) gives a uniform integer as long as you cannot hit n < 1252891959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe best to check anyway < 1252892176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if Math.random() returns between [0, 1) then my code is correct? < 1252892193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, except for the whole idiotic table_1 table_2 table_3 etc. thing) < 1252892204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252892218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1252892327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Math.random(), while it will never ever return 1, will occasionally (VERY occasionally) return zero. < 1252892330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?t=545326 < 1252892359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, Flash < 1252892373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actionscript is an implementation of ECMAscript. < 1252892378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't dismiss arguments based on it. < 1252892381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, just test. < 1252892408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (i=0;i<100000;i++) if (Math.random()==1) alert("fuck") < 1252892409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any errors based on the number being too high are (with one exception) absorbed by an else < 1252892484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get "fuck" when I changed that 1 to a 0, though < 1252892510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess it's (0, 1] which is weird. Just look it up in the ECMAscript specification. < 1252892516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ECMAScript < 1252892524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/ECMA-262.pdf < 1252892532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get fuck when it was one < 1252892544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have been unlucky enough to not get zeros < 1252892554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it's (0, 1] < 1252892566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1252892569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's [0, 1) < 1252892574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1252892576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Returns a number value with positive sign, greater than or equal to 0 but less than 1" < 1252892582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah blah etc. < 1252892595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: hey, does Sumatra really not have copy/paste of text? < 1252892596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfman. < 1252892618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can search but not select... < 1252892633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you can < 1252892637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it selects as a rectangle < 1252892639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not text < 1252892644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returns a number value with positive sign, greater than or equal to 0 but less than 1, chosen randomly < 1252892646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pseudo randomly with approximately uniform distribution over that range, using an < 1252892648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation-dependent algorithm or strategy. This function takes no arguments. < 1252892650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-drag < 1252892656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a, wossname, retarded interface. < 1252892677 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quoting that parrot from Eric? < 1252892697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252892704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just the wossname bit. < 1252892723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THat's what I meant < 1252892775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how hard it'd be to build ghc on cygwin < 1252892783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it'd be porting, essentially, but... < 1252893170 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252893334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. You must be poor." // an odd process of deduction there < 1252893491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, does anyone know if Lua still sucks? < 1252893525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSMP was supposed to use Lua < 1252893536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know it sucked in the first place < 1252893660 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.solipsis.org/ I didn't remember Solipsis being 3d.. or anything other than a bunch of dots < 1252893771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sgeo immediately attempts to travel forwards in time so he can be nostalgic about it) < 1252893801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he succeeds! - very slowly though < 1252893813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252893816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Primer! < 1252893824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except reversed. < 1252893864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are things I don't get nostalgic about! < 1252893876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get nostalgic over IMVU < 1252893990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get nostalgic over the time that I was without computer access for a long period of time < 1252894014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither of those are open-ended 3D virtual realities < 1252894097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not especially nostalgic over OSMP, but it never really worked in a large-scale manner < 1252894118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how you're only nostalgic about good things. < 1252894121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes caliber, that. < 1252894179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm feeling some OSMP-related nostalgic, but more about the ideas I had for it then OSMP itself < 1252895449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nostalgia < 1252895624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1252896150 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw the typo, but figured you'd try to make some joke out of it, instead of a boring correction < 1252896185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far too lazy for that < 1252896244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CMake has several forms of documentation. There is a book Mastering CMake by Ken Martin and Bill Hoffman (ISBN 1-930934-16-5) which is published by Kitware and can be purchased through Kitware's e-store or through Amazon. // which costs $52 < 1252896250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "documentation" is generated from the source code < 1252896257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, the cmake documentation costs $52+shipping < 1252896259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1252896262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an "open" project < 1252896370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what, I'm done delaying on my homework. Restarting my computer. I won't be back until one or two paragraphs are done. < 1252896406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homework: because the whole day wasn't enough! < 1252896411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*isn't, perhaps. < 1252896439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252896460 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1252896465 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is glad not to have any homework < 1252896471 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, none due tomorrow :P < 1252896496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope what? < 1252896538 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole day is never enough < 1252896541 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :procrastination 101 < 1252896599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, I mean that "homework" is the (wrong) answer to "keeping kids in our environment all day and prodding them with repeated reciting of textbooks isn't teaching them anything. What do we do?" < 1252896830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, my disk can store 385.92 miles. < 1252896840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://neologasm.org/neologasm/2007/07/fortraninch.html via http://andrewducker.livejournal.com/1227424.html < 1252896847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anti-via, rather. "refers to", maybe. < 1252899500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252899932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, CygWine uses mingwm10.dll, i.e., some MinGW thing. < 1252900329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CygWine seems to only do 1.5, *sigh* < 1252900350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could patch the code to use -2, but I'd need MinGW and wxWidgets dev libs. < 1252900367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it uses goddamn cmake. < 1252900991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("If nothing goes overly wrong, the official 1.7.1 release goes public still within the the first half of 2009.") < 1252901180 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252901530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tommd.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/kernel-modules-in-haskell/ < 1252901533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq will love this. < 1252901542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type-safe, garbage collected, referentially transparent Linux kernel modules? < 1252901544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252901558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my hostility to Linux just evaporated. < 1252901676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/user/bonch, a single-minded dimwit. < 1252901875 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE A DRINK FOR EVERY HASKELL LINK < 1252901889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE A DRINK FOR EVERY DRINK < 1252901902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka alcoholism in 1 step < 1252901921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: also, you forgot the newline. < 1252902001 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT \ A FUCKING POEM \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I ... damn, can't rhyme here. < 1252902015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Try "SHIT" < 1252902028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, not doesn't rhyme with poem. So you failed already! < 1252902029 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "poem" rhymes with "shit" < 1252902040 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ABCB, genius. < 1252902040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your rhyming scheme, not a single line there rhymes < 1252902048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not doesn't rhyme with it, dude. < 1252902048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Heheheh. < 1252902087 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT \ A POEM, NITWIT \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I SEE FIT < 1252902149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S NOT \ A FUCKING POEOT \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I SHIT < 1252902161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best poem ever. < 1252902179 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in ehird's view of the universe, poems have to be in the AABB rhyme scheme. < 1252902197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just wanted it to be, so I could say poeot and use the it/shit rhyme. < 1252902213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, to imply that you can arrange anything in the manner in which you shit. < 1252902224 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man from Nantucket \ who oh damn who cares fuck it \ I've given up on this poem \ so this won't rhyme \ who the fuck cares. < 1252902243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "IT'S NOT \ A POEM, NITWIT \ I'LL ARRANGE IT \ HOWEVER I SEE FIT" it's ABBB. < 1252902245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1252902262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> There once was a man from Nantucket \ who oh damn who cares fuck it \ I've given up on this poem \ so this won't row, um \ who the fuck cares. < 1252902271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/>\t// < 1252902273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SUBVERTED YOUR INTENT < 1252902278 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh damn, I didn't even intend for the third line to rhyme with the second and fourth :P < 1252902291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252902303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'LL ARRANGE OT < 1252902306 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that the last line of a limerick is supposed to rhyme with the first. < 1252902312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the limerick. < 1252902329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man from Nantucket \ who oh damn who cares fuck it \ I've given up on this poem \ so this won't row, um \ not even if you use a bucket. < 1252902369 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252902375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There once was a man with an orange \ shit < 1252902380 0 :bsmntbombdood___!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1252902389 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Quite the poem. < 1252902406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252902418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not many other paths to go down, really. < 1252902423 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emo poetry: I don't know how to rhyme \ I just cry into my pillow \ in my parent's basement \ maybe I should get another piercing. < 1252902430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emoetry < 1252902471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emoetry: My dream's skies are like flames / they're hot and lick around / UNLIKE MY BOYFRIEND / who is never around / I'LL KILL MYSELF WITHOUT MAKING A SOUND / I can so rhyme around with around < 1252902484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / Because I'm nonconformist < 1252902499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / And not bound by any rules < 1252902510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good because it's purposefully terrible. < 1252902515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It's good because it's purposefully terrible! < 1252902522 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Black Dynamite < 1252902594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I will bite < 1252902599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though just to rhyme, just this one time < 1252902605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Black Dynamite? < 1252902608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note: don't bother answering < 1252902613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to make some more wonderful poetry! < 1252902621 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a blaxploitation-ploitation movie < 1252902643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metaploitation: a ploitation of the whole genre of anything-ploitation, including itself. < 1252902660 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252902662 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dynamite < 1252902682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I invented a new genre. < 1252902685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only goes one level. < 1252902697 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSFW: http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.php?id=10932 < 1252902706 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trailer < 1252902710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Removed by Sony Pictures" < 1252902716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best trailer ever. < 1252902717 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1252902780 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, here < 1252902782 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/11/23/worth-watching-nov-23-badass-black-dynamite-trailer/ < 1252902796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no audio, so this better be good enough without. < 1252902960 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs it < 1252902974 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1252902975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, which is why I closed it. < 1252902979 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could narrate < 1252902998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think that will be necessary. < 1252903007 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't either < 1252903019 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the movie looks pretty awesome in an offensive way < 1252903083 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`imdb Gayniggers from Outer Space < 1252903087 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gayniggers from Outer Space (1992) \ User Rating: \ \ 6.0/10 [91]3,296 votes \ -- \ Plot: \ \ Extraterrestrial beings travel the galaxy to free men "oppressed" by females to make way for an entirely-homosexual society. | [104]full synopsis < 1252903103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black Dynamite is apparently intentionally parodic though, while Gayniggers is just really bad comedy. < 1252903110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that I still need to watch some time. < 1252903111 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252903118 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god... < 1252903151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm fairly sure it cannot possibly live up to the lie of Gay Nigger Jim raping a toilet until he explodes and the song "Gay Niggers Eat Pigs and Fly on Penises Made Out of Ham and Brown Ham, Because They're Gay Niggers". < 1252903153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES! < 1252903155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES, I TELL YOU! < 1252903461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cygwinports.blogspot.com/ ooh < 1252903519 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For people who want Windows only for the binary compatibility. < 1252903528 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[tm] < 1252903568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, for people who like nice shells, unix-style command-line tools, etc and would like Unix-only programs, including X11 ones, to work seamlessly with their Windows ones. < 1252903614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin is hugely (but not quite *cripplingly*, unless you have a large shell script and don't want it to take many minutes) flawed environment, but what it provides is valuable and nothing quite matches that. < 1252903640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has a very hostile command-line environment, so it's almost necessary. < 1252903683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only native binary of a shell is UnxUtil's zsh, which is ancient (last updated in 2003, or 2007 depending on whose dates you believe), and it isn't stable on Windows 7, at least (crashes a lot, some other weird bugs) < 1252903710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although GnuWin32 offers some GNU tools (but not a shell), that's still a limited set. < 1252903720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Cygwin Ports is a good effort. < 1252903783 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh < 1252903788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got severel native POSIX binaries on my Windows VM. < 1252903788 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So somehow you just haven't heard of MSYS? < 1252903796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I was hoping you'd say that! < 1252903802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including /bin/sh, /bin/ksh, and /opt/gentoo/bin/bash < 1252903818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, they're not Win32 binaries at all. < 1252903821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: MSYS is an outdated fork of Cygwin, and has all the same flaws except it's fucking old. Furthermore, it has a fixed set of tools: if you want anything more, you have to have a patched version of gcc 2. < 1252903828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use a patched version < 1252903830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Interix. < 1252903841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: In conclusion, wow, no way MSYS is superior to Cygwin. < 1252903851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its only advantage is that it automatically translates Unix paths to Windows ones if you call a non-MSYS tool. < 1252903872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: gcc 3, iirc. But I might try it sometime. < 1252903881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I don't particularly want to compile too much stuff myself. < 1252903883 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: A) I never claimed that it was, I merely said that there was another native binary shell, MSYS'. B) I strongly suspect that your statements about MSYS are more outdated than MSYS is. < 1252903886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I know gcc 4 is available) < 1252903893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: MSYS is not a native binary shell. < 1252903896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a DLL, just like Cygwin. < 1252903904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the DLL is a modified version of an old version of Cygwin. < 1252903911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And absolutely false, I used it a day or two ago. < 1252903914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: GCC 4 works on it, it's just not the default. < 1252903936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not even meant to compile stuff for MSYS, which is why it's such a bitch. It is purely meant as a fixed development environment for using MinGW in. < 1252903939 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, I'm going to have to go boot up Windows just because I'm so convinced that you're full of shit. < 1252903940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo Prefix and Debian's Interix port install it, IIRC. < 1252903950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Which bit, exactly, do you think is false? < 1252903958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't want a Linux distribution. < 1252904018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, you don't want a POSIX environment that coincidentally coexists with a Windows environment. Rather, you'd prefer Cygwin that doesn't suck. < 1252904031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I do want the former, and it's the latter. < 1252904032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or ideally an OS that doesn't suck, but we can't always have that) < 1252904043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Linux distribution isn't the best POSIX environment to coexist with Windows... < 1252904114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix offers a basic POSIX environment, and Gentoo xor Debian for it just install additional packages. Kinda like MacPorts. < 1252904133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but for Debian they're *Debian* packages, patched and outdated. < 1252904142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Debian. < 1252904145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Gentoo I have to compile them myself. < 1252904160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Gentoo you have to tell them to compile and be patient. < 1252904169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit less complicated than actually compiling them. < 1252904184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's unneeded waiting, which isn't something I'm particularly good at being patient for. < 1252904188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You at least don't have to directly deal with some of the more painful build systems out there. < 1252904197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I do, when they break. < 1252904213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is Windows + Microsoft stuff: not if.) < 1252904218 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fucksicle souffle. < 1252904235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[AT THIS POINT, GREGORR'S REALITY IS SHATTERED] < 1252904240 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC 2.95, msys-1.0.dll, garbage in a large stinking pile. < 1252904244 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outstanding. < 1252904254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toldya. < 1252904279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: With Cygwin, you get gcc 3 or a broken gcc 4. Booyah! < 1252904294 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With MingW you get GCC 4. < 1252904300 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSYS is just a shell and related gunk. < 1252904304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: MinGW doesn't do POSIX. < 1252904317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows does a little bit of POSIX, and MinGW lets you compile with that. < 1252904337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't compile a *nix program for it; you can only port it. Using Win32 for the bits Windows doesn't do. < 1252904339 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. But here's a giant shock: That little bit of POSIX that Windows does is enough to appease 99% of the well-written software out there with small nudges. < 1252904339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... GCC 2.95. < 1252904339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's older than my CPU architecture. < 1252904339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might even be older than my knowledge of C. < 1252904342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY < 1252904352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ... No. < 1252904359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Which is why there are whole projects designed to port *nix things to Win32. < 1252904365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including trivial things like basic utilities. < 1252904380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it Just Works! Yaaaay imaginative reality < 1252904386 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic utilities are the MOST difficult to port things X_X < 1252904393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basic = simple. < 1252904398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like grep. < 1252904414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep is quite well-written, grep doesn't use crazy POSIX hacks as far as I know. < 1252904418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet it's still a porting effort. < 1252904431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same for every damn thing. < 1252904435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows does decent chunks of POSIX.1. That gets you... File operations. < 1252904454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But guize, I heard it passed all the POSIX tests!!!111 < 1252904480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Also, it doesn't even have mmap() or fork(). < 1252904489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork() is understandable, mmap() less so: breaks tons of shit. < 1252904508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is only POSIX compliant if you use the POSIX subsystem. < 1252904517 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point for mmap. < 1252904520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion: Cygwin is the only real option. Apart from *maybe* Interix. < 1252904528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is quite a bit different from what people are used to from Windows. < 1252904539 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the only real option is to throw Windows in the dumpster. < 1252904545 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252904546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even the freaking filesystem magically changes behavior) < 1252904548 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use an OS that doesn't stink to all hell. < 1252904564 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252904564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: For non-command-liney stuff, I've found Windows superior to "modern" desktop Linux distributions so far. < 1252904580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its internals and command line environment are shit. < 1252904594 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steps out before the OS war silliness kills us all. < 1252904600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has so much momentum behind it that the day-to-day desktop stuff is quite easy to make not suck. < 1252904607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oh, feel free to argue. I love arguing! < 1252904614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its GUI makes a 15 year old X environment look consistent. < 1252904633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use bad software < 1252904643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And almost all of it is bad. < 1252904652 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do make it easy to write bad software :) < 1252904655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to Sturgeon's Law. Windows is the biggest platform, therefore... < 1252904662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even software that comes with it is rather bad) < 1252904669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that doesn't blend in atm that I actually use is Chrome, because its toolbar widgets have a custom gradient on and the icons are custom. < 1252904673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's so subtle as to be irrelevant. < 1252904681 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252904697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 7's Explorer is actually decent. < 1252904714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they made that not blatantly different from everything else? < 1252904769 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252904769 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252904771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most directories use the pleasing list-with-columns view with sane default sizes. There's a customisable shortcut toolbar to the left, and a field in which you can navigate up and down the directory structure at any point. < 1252904772 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252904777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also serves as a go-to-location field. < 1252904811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a search field for the current directory (you can change where you want to search after hitting enter) next to that, and all the common option f a file are in a changing toolbar below these. < 1252904817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good. < 1252904855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the file you're hovering over is highlighted, which is nice for picking a file out of a long list. < 1252904868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far better than XP's Explorer, which is worthless. < 1252904909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You neglect that Chrome also magically doesn't have a titlebar. < 1252904918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but it does. < 1252904920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike every other Windows program. < 1252904928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Vista and XP, it uses the native titlebar. < 1252904932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just nudges the tabs up into it. < 1252904934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1252904936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Vista and 7 < 1252904943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Google_Chrome.png < 1252904958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and? That's what a titlebar looks like with Aero. < 1252904959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, there, is inconsistency. < 1252904968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not, it's just different UI design. < 1252904976 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explorer doesn't have title text either; it doesn't need it < 1252904981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly < 1252904985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right below is the hierarchy field < 1252904986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? Every titlebar has no text in it, no icon, and "Google" right next to the minimize button? < 1252905002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has no icon, its back/forwards buttons are in the toolbar, along with the location and search field. < 1252905004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Explorer. < 1252905026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome's only difference is the Google logo (which is unnoticeable), and the fact that the tabs are a little higher than what Explorer does. < 1252905028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... My point is that doing that shit *sucks giant donkey balls*. < 1252905032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't. < 1252905033 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still double-click where the icon should be to close explorer, if you happen to be in a windows 3.1 frame of mind. < 1252905034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's perfectly usable. < 1252905053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is OS X "inconsistent" because its toolbar icons are in the "title bar" gradient? < 1252905054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252905066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's doing things differently from all the other programs on the same OS for no good reason. < 1252905076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that it isn't different from all other programs. < 1252905081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is standard Vista-style UI fare. < 1252905087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? No program has text in the title bar? < 1252905092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No icons? < 1252905106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And control widgets are where the text would be in previous iterations of Windows? < 1252905108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In pikhq's world, every program has the exact same UI and does the same thing because otherwise it'd be different from every other program on the same OS < 1252905122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's not true. In Explorer they're lower down. < 1252905124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides < 1252905125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in chromee < 1252905127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*chrome < 1252905128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that every tab is the window < 1252905138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tab you're on is the title < 1252905140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ehird's world, forming a strawman is a valid criticism. < 1252905145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's doing exactly the right thing for its UI < 1252905160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Chrome's design, that's how it's meant to be: there is no browser UI, the tab is the title bar. < 1252905178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you be happy if it was slightly higher up and didn't have a background? That's ridiculous. < 1252905195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers consistent UIs. I even tended to avoid using KDE/Qt programs in GNOME and GNOME/GTK+ programs in KDE < 1252905225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be happy if it were consistent with other programs' look and feel, rather than creating a custom title bar. < 1252905250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't custom if other fucking programs do it < 1252905255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not some weird Chrome thing < 1252905262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all < 1252905265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might not be "custom", but it's annoying < 1252905276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no it's not. Have you ever USED Chrome on Vista/7? < 1252905279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some weird "some random set of programs do it". < 1252905280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's completely unnoticeable and perfectly designed. < 1252905293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: INCLUDING THE FLAGSHIP ORGANIZER SHIPPED WITH THE OS < 1252905304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MY POINT IS THAT EVEN THE PROGRAMS THAT COME WITH IT SUCK. < 1252905305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also does the system settings < 1252905307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them < 1252905314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do most programs do it Chrome's/Explorer's way? < 1252905315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THEY RANDOMLY DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY FOR NO GOOD REASON. < 1252905322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, no point discussing this; you've used XP and think you nkow what's consistent or good or not in 7 < 1252905325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1252905330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, carry on thinking that < 1252905332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if you talk about XP, you definately have a point < 1252905349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the typical UI is on Vista or 7 < 1252905361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, newer programs keep the Aero UI in XP, with some widgets changed. < 1252905362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, silly! He's talking about an OS he knows from a few screenshots and anecdotes. In other words, he's an expert. < 1252905373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...what? No. No they don't. < 1252905376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not true whatsoever. < 1252905378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are simply wrong. < 1252905396 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"dalnet" < 1252905424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way Chrome looks in XP is inconsistent with most XP programs < 1252905430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is < 1252905432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am arguing on 7 < 1252905434 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252905441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is too, except he doesn't know shit about 7 < 1252905468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, apparently in 7 the title bar is meaningless. < 1252905487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genius deductions based on anecdote and one screenshot, pal. < 1252905494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're clever. < 1252905500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Non sequitur. < 1252905502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant. < 1252905512 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The title is unnecessary in explorer because the breadcrumb bar tells you everything you need to know < 1252905515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, it's not as if the Explorer title bar is like that BECAUSE THE TITLE OF THE FOLDER YOU'RE IN is in the title bar. < 1252905527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it should be redundant and keep that below the fold while ALSO putting it in the window title. < 1252905532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that makes sense. < 1252905542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternate universe: "So, apparently in 7 the title bar is redundant." < 1252905557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More sense then only some programs having any information in the title bar at all. < 1252905564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude. < 1252905567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPLORER HAS THE INFORMATION IN THE TITLE BAR. < 1252905578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[icon] > Computer > Local Disk (C:) >" < 1252905581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the folder I am in. < 1252905584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what would be in the title bar. < 1252905586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS IN THE TITLE BAR. < 1252905593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks to be below the title bar to me. < 1252905604 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the glassy area, so I suppose that counts < 1252905606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the transparent area above the window contents, i.e. THE TITLE BAR. < 1252905620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can move the window by it. < 1252905624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. THE TITLE BAR < 1252905641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Drag the glass area below the field. Voila, moving. That's what the title bar does.) < 1252905665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... So UI elements are being stuck in the title bar? < 1252905712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252905725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You mean like the program icon, title text, minimize, maximize and close? < 1252905736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound like UI elements to me. < 1252905755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. That was poorly phrased. < 1252905767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also click the program icon for a menu. < 1252905769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UI element! < 1252905780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per-program UI elements that are inherently different for each program. < 1252905794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called discretion. < 1252905798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You complained that the title bar was bad because it has no information. < 1252905805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Explorer, the relevant information IS in the title bar. < 1252905821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also navigable, which is required of such a widget anyway: anything else would be redundance. < 1252905830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I continue to see a null title bar and an inexplicably glassy portion of the program. < 1252905831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Chrome, the title of the page IS in the title bar, and highlighted: it's the current tab. < 1252905835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of these usages are consistent. < 1252905843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They contain the correct information in the correct way. < 1252905863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can right click the glassy region below the "widgets" to get the window menu, too. < 1252905868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is undeniably the title bar. < 1252905886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't see it that way after using 7 for some time, unless you're really UI-blind. < 1252905913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact Explorer would be better if it lifted those elements to the top of the title bar, like Chrome. < 1252905927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now the title bar has some weird padding at the top. < 1252905932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because I continue to see things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Notepad_Vista.png < 1252905940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and? < 1252905949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file location is in the title bar. < 1252905954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like you want. < 1252905962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's the window menu, and then its contents. < 1252905965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has quite different titlebar behavior from Explorer or Chrome. < 1252905973 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252905973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. < 1252906040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's quite different. The titlebar is a different size and it shows quite different information. < 1252906043 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252906076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I will ever change your mind because you have preconceived notions of what is correct and are only engaging in this to convince me, not to bother to be convinced otherwise. I deduce this from your style of debate and persistence. < 1252906084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to prove me wrong. < 1252906103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Explorer titlebar doesn't even show the title. Just a directory hierarchy. < 1252906118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what would be shown in the title bar. < 1252906121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The directory hierarchy. < 1252906134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what Explorer's title bar has ALWAYS shown. < 1252906203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine that showing "Explorer" in the task bar would be more useful then showing the directory hierarchy < 1252906211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're being sarcastic. < 1252906217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me? < 1252906219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252906226 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the task bar, you just get the folder name < 1252906239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 7 titlebar groups windows into applications (like the OS X Dock but better) and the Window title for other programs is what it used to be. < 1252906243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not... although I just considered the possibility of multiple Explorer windows, so nevermind < 1252906247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, Explorer windows, well, look like Explorer Windows. < 1252906251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not very useful. < 1252906253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*windows < 1252906280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just wants every damned program to look the same. < 1252906300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a ridiculously ill-defined notion. < 1252906318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably be eating or something < 1252906319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 has a consistent UI look; you just think it doesn't based on preconceived misconceptions, and I will not convince you otherwise, at least not by talking on IRC. < 1252906333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on how you define "consistent UI look" < 1252906341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I said. < 1252906362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a ridiculously ill-defined notion, but for any definition that isn't close to "every program should have identical graphics and therefore do exactly the same thing" 7 has it. < 1252906380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Aero, it looks to me almost like doing Qt and GTK on the same system, with them having themes that emulate each other. You get Notepad, which looks like an XP app with a shiny theme, and Explorer, which looks like it's for a *different OS* and happens to have the same widgets. < 1252906386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, Explorer's title bar is exceedingly usable, so fuck any incorrect ideological notions. < 1252906402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It does not. You are using preconceived blah blah blah I don't give a shit, you're just repeating the same crap.. < 1252906407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.{2}/./ < 1252906412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels dizzy in his attempt to minorly disagree with ehird < 1252906420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Imagine if Windows Explorer did the same thing on OS X. < 1252906423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I attempt to make that as difficult as possible! < 1252906431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. That was a bad sentence. < 1252906435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Imagine if a Windows program was on OS X! Wouldn't it be DIFFERENT? < 1252906442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit, sherlock. < 1252906445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... -_-' < 1252906452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, the title bar area in OS X also includes the WHOLE toolbar. < 1252906456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now you're just being a asshat shitcock fuckoff. < 1252906460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just the bit relevant to the thing at hand, like the path. < 1252906463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ignore ehird < 1252906469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, it's as though I have this notion in my mind that everything ehird says is correct < 1252906498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, so while I try to end the argument by mildly cursing and saying I don't care anymore, pikhq calls me an asshat shitcock, tells me to fuck off, and sticks his fingers in his ear. < 1252906501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's totally true. < 1252906503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252906528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If I said that's false, would your brain overheat and would steam come out of your ears? < 1252906558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because I'd get the joke. However, this response to that joke just killed the joke. < 1252906579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns himself in for murdering a joke. < 1252906624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Almost certainly not everything I say is correct. This is actually true and serious, no joke. < 1252906658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but I think I'd have difficulty recognizing when you're wrong. < 1252906687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much identical to saying "If I have an opinion about something, and you have one and it differs I'll disagree" which is... fairly obvious... < 1252906713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you intentionally saying incorrect things now to see how I'd react? < 1252906720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the same at all < 1252906722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no < 1252906737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes it is, the only way to determine whether something is true or false that you can agree with is to use your opinions < 1252906767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that if you state an opinion, my mind is likely to adapt that opinion before looking at it critically < 1252906780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will use this for nefarious purposes. < 1252907050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION weighs up windows: shit desktop and linux: shit command line... < 1252907062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really would quite like a Cygwin GHC for a Cygwin darcs... < 1252907066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd be a huge porting effort < 1252907100 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-110.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1252907160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it would be possible/sensible to make a C library of some of the Python standard library < 1252907182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1252907216 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, it depends which part < 1252907218 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252907251 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252907260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python's so different to C that it'd be unnatural < 1252907319 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did say it depends which part. Integer manipulation for example already exists in C. < 1252907364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is thinking more like urllib2. Isn't integer manipulation more a part of the language? < 1252907405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urllib2: use libcurl < 1252907444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does CPython use libcurl? < 1252907447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't know < 1252907449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: look at http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/simple.html < 1252907452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libcurl is easy < 1252907471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/sepheaders.html more fleshed out example < 1252907479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(downloads a page and its headers into two files) < 1252907521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at curlpp < 1252907559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why are you using C++? < 1252907569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it's what I'm learning in college right now :/ < 1252907580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's a good reason :P < 1252907589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://curlpp.org/index.php/examples/47-example-00 < 1252907601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a direct binding of libcurl (except uglier) < 1252907603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be fine < 1252907635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need to make a curlpp::Cleanup ? < 1252907647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get how that works < 1252907653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still looks nonsensical < 1252907660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIAA, I guess. < 1252907665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAEr. < 1252907665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIAA? < 1252907666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1252907668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAII < 1252907678 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIRR < 1252907679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when the Cleanup is destroyed, it deallocates and stuff. < 1252907697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not in the request because you could do multiple requests. < 1252907698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume. < 1252907765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, good night all < 1252907770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252908360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised why SPUI was called that < 1252908362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Spui-schematic.svg/792px-Spui-schematic.svg.png < 1252908594 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1252908619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: SPUI had a bunch of joking/trolly references to anal sex on his page < 1252908663 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes both ways... uh... < 1252908673 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes the underpass... < 1252908685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it looks like goatse. < 1252908695 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... oh god... < 1252908698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252908756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(His page made reference to "single point urban interchange" and he was mostly known for editing transport (including motorway) articles, so it's almost certainly the same thing, even if he didn't see the goatse, which I doubt.) < 1252908761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk about long-term trolling. < 1252908768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he was mostly known for trolling, but. < 1252908843 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i am coming up with ideas for a language on parrot < 1252908847 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((|> + str) 5 "string") < 1252908856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parrot's just a VM. < 1252908860 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what that could do in this hypothetical language is create the left->right junction of the results of (+ 5 "string") and (str 5 "string") < 1252908862 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1252908869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252908880 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is easier to implement things on there than on, say, C+yacc < 1252908915 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :junctions are from perl 6, and i can steal from their implementation < 1252908942 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prefix notation is from lisp, but i don't think i will just use () parentheses < 1252908943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, being on Parrot isn't a feature of the language. < 1252908948 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1252908951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252908961 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just meant that was how i was going to do it < 1252909028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252909038 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be fairly amazing if someone wrote a parrot bytecode -> java bytecode converter < 1252909048 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is already the reverse of that < 1252909058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1252909063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jvm sucks < 1252909070 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1252909076 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you prefer C? < 1252909080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i say that? < 1252909080 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or .NET? < 1252909099 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just guessing? < 1252909101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vm has a startup time so slow it's worthless for command-line tools, the standard library is awkward and verbose to use < 1252909116 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1252909117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't actually that many additional libraries for it as the jvmists claim < 1252909128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its primary GUI library, Swing, is unspeakably bad < 1252909135 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1252909163 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://substance.dev.java.net/see.html < 1252909209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing those skins makes me bet that it can't be made to look native. < 1252909211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. < 1252909219 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWT < 1252909221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look, I don't have the JVM. < 1252909224 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWT has native look < 1252909233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't notice because nothing actually uses Java.) < 1252909239 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you not have the JVM. < 1252909239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nothing desktop, anyway.) < 1252909256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: all vm people think theirs is ubiquitous and mandatory :-) < 1252909270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing with that title on a typical internet-connected desktop is flash < 1252909277 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i use mac, and all macs come with... python, perl, ruby, and java 5+ < 1252909285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact is that no command-line program uses java, no desktop program uses java < 1252909297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: i'm actually using Windows 7 right now, but I'm a *nixer < 1252909312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...although all OSs right now are woefully inadequate and wasteful < 1252909314 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your sweepping generalizations make me think less of your opinion < 1252909329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd matter if I was looking to sway your opinion < 1252909349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm merely stating my experience; no popular program on Windows uses Java apart from OpenOffice, and that only uses it for some things behind the scenes < 1252909357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I find the same applies to Linux and OS X < 1252909509 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limewire and eclipse are two big ones < 1252909526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LimeWire, granted, but LimeWire sucks big time. < 1252909540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eclipse is only popular with Java developers. (Don't say that C thing. Nobody uses it.) < 1252909563 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eclipse is slow, but it has helped me a lot < 1252909574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean it's popular outside of a niche community < 1252909589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's really overly bloated. Does seven billion things, does none of them well... < 1252909604 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like emacs < 1252909607 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Java < 1252909618 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also like windows and linux < 1252909629 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mac does even less things than eithe rof those < 1252909664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs is also terrible < 1252909671 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you edit with? < 1252909674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a surprising number of sharp, compact windows tools < 1252909686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux with the typical gnucrap doesn't do it, indeed < 1252909708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: right now? i edit small files with notepad2 or programmer's notepad, because I haven't got anything set up for that stuff. < 1252909718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on os x i mostly used textmate because all the other os x editors suck < 1252909726 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any large projects? < 1252909732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for haskell and lisp I used emacs < 1252909739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: depends how you define large < 1252909761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you define it high enough, that project is too big to exist (or is it too big to fail? let's bail out Eclipse) < 1252909778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm absolutely fine as long as I have a file switcher tree of the project to the left < 1252909780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tabs < 1252909794 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 1000 LoC in C/++? not small enough to be written and maintained effortlessly < 1252909795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a window switcher list might be better than tabs if I have an awful lot of files open < 1252909802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I find I rarely actually actively edit more than a few files < 1252909814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: 1000? that's a ridiculously low bar, any non-trivial C program will be above that < 1252909818 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably over 400 in haskell < 1252909829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: xmonad is like 500 lines... < 1252909833 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i was just going for "not a script" < 1252909836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a fully-featured window manager that a ton of people use daily < 1252909898 0 :notostraca_!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252909898 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252909901 0 :notostraca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notostraca < 1252910051 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you remind me of myself when I'm not on my meds < 1252910063 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very active and argumentative < 1252910084 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also write a lot more than when i am < 1252910472 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252910520 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"On the other hand, you have different fingers." < 1252910564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1252910583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: I'm not argumentative, I'm just not adding obvious qualifiers like "I think" < 1252910592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this is commonly misinterpreted as argumentativeness < 1252910620 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i make sweeping generalizations when i don't take my meds < 1252910639 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i am less articulate than you are right now < 1252910646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will make a note to avoid meds :P < 1252910668 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will make a note to keep taking meds < 1252910679 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps me make friends and not go to jail < 1252910696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have plenty friends, thank you, and I've never committed any harmful crime < 1252910698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252910712 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't talking about you there < 1252910728 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably aren't bipolar < 1252910748 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably don't have Ragin' Cajun Syndrome either < 1252910794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking :) < 1252910805 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although many more coders than non-coders have aspergers, myself included < 1252910829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you aren't another of the self-diagnosed aspergers as an excuse for social incompetency camp... < 1252910832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are way, way too many of those < 1252910834 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asperger's syndrome: great syndrome, or the greatest syndrome? < 1252910859 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, i definitely have it < 1252910870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diagnosed? < 1252910873 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 4 doctors would testify in court < 1252910890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, now my only qualm is the incredible vagueness of its definition :-P < 1252910910 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them shouldn't have been given birth certificates, much less doctorates... < 1252910934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as someone who has been tentatively-diagnosed (but not diagnosed) with aspergers, after researching I find it a shaky and dubious vagueness...) < 1252910975 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is pretty useful when you just want to do one thing < 1252910981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1252910997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant I find it dubious as a condition < 1252911001 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people with asperger's tend to be abnormally good at focusing on a specific task that they are born to do < 1252911008 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"born to do" < 1252911014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit < 1252911018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not born to do anything < 1252911030 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence the air quotes < 1252911057 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i typed the quotes with fingers in the air < 1252911070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an impressive feat < 1252911140 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have a knack for game development, which has less to do with the asperger's giving me skill and more to do with the asperger's making me especially interested in the subject < 1252911199 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, i get too interested in the designs and i start switching around to the game that interests me most at the given time < 1252911206 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the bipolar not the AS < 1252911206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of the things that are claimed Asperger's brings. < 1252911222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That sentence is truly awkward.) < 1252911234 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awkward this sentence is truly < 1252911247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least mine was valid in a non-poetic sense. < 1252911259 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now that's argumentative < 1252911271 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least competitive < 1252911275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on earth is that argumentative? < 1252911297 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be trying to prove your statements are better < 1252911318 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite mine being ajoke < 1252911327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, play it again, Freud. I was joking that my sentence was a funner example of an awkward sentence since an invalid sentence outside of a poetic context is just that, not awkward. < 1252911349 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, we have aspergers! we can't identify jokes < 1252911360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew yours was a joke, actually. < 1252911371 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, you don't have aspergers < 1252911378 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have... < 1252911384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously we weren't seriously debating the relative merits of awkward sentences... < 1252911385 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ragin cajun syndrome < 1252911393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously! Issue: I'm British. < 1252911408 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was named after dr. ragin' cajun < 1252911420 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symptoms: < 1252911422 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ragin < 1252911426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cajun < 1252911429 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, symptom < 1252911438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot cajuning. < 1252911465 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, are you a quack doctor like me now? :-P < 1252911480 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having seen enough of them, i should know their tricks < 1252911494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm an inverse homeopath < 1252911511 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you love you some western medicine < 1252911520 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here < 1252911529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I start with water, and continually dilute it in the thing that causes the ailment until there's less than one part in a trillion water < 1252911533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I give it to the patient < 1252911538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they, uh < 1252911540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually die. < 1252911556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the state considers me a homicidal murderer, but I prefer inverse homeopath < 1252911563 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kid went to my school who gave up gluten to see if it would stop his high-functioning autism < 1252911563 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't < 1252911580 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was still an annoying moron < 1252911587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that even mean? "I want to become a social idiot?" < 1252911609 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, gluten rules < 1252911640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should make meat with added gluten. < 1252911645 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quorn < 1252911646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be, like, the best thing ever. To eat. < 1252911658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quorn doesn't have any meat, dude. < 1252911669 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is meat+ < 1252911670 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn < 1252911673 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1252911674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's protein < 1252911675 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has eggs < 1252911677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not meat < 1252911683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not dead flesh < 1252911701 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has unliving flesh < 1252911707 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egg whites count as that < 1252911721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, no < 1252911726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meat is meat, egg is just an animal product. < 1252911729 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do egg yolks? < 1252911753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not meat unless it's the same flesh as would be if it was alive and then died. < 1252911754 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egg yolks become meat < 1252911754 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-meat < 1252911764 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i'm going to fry up some pre-chickens, you want any?" < 1252911772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lab-created never-living flesh counts, dead animal flesh counts < 1252911773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing else < 1252911779 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1252911784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is DELICIOUS (well, just the latter at the moment) < 1252911784 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oil then < 1252911797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it < 1252911801 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crude oil is long-dead animal flesh < 1252911816 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also plant material < 1252911818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buuuuuuuuullshit < 1252911822 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1252911825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not flesh, it's stuff that used to be flesh < 1252911830 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like meat? < 1252911836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meat is flesh. < 1252911854 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when does meat cease to be flesh? < 1252911857 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cook a steak < 1252911859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY MEAT DAMNIT < 1252911860 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burn a steak < 1252911899 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am designing a language, i have to be precise here and count for all interpretations :-P < 1252911909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your programming language includes a notion of meat? < 1252911913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awesome! < 1252911946 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am in programing-language-design mode, is what i mean < 1252911954 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anal-retentive < 1252911990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca retends anuses < 1252911991 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this chatroom could help < 1252912004 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my anus-retending < 1252912018 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252912022 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i want this language to have 3 big features: < 1252912040 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code-as-data, currying, and junctions < 1252912040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Careful, you've set me into ruthlessly-criticise-language mode. < 1252912042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MAY BE FLAMMABLE. < 1252912053 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from lisp, haskell, and perl 6 < 1252912068 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, you like lisp and haskell well enough < 1252912071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what a junction is, but damnit, I cannot possibly criticize the other two < 1252912084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You suck :P < 1252912097 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :junctions allow a datum to be two or more things at once < 1252912129 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6#Junctions < 1252912151 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it better than i can in short messages < 1252912160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, superpositions. < 1252912167 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252912182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're nice. When I started programming I was always baffled I couldn't do (foo == (1 | 2 | 3)). < 1252912189 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the addition is here is ordered unctions < 1252912193 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*junctions < 1252912245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds scary. < 1252912249 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have the ordered junction of two functions, you can iterate through the junction returned until you find a result that isn't an error < 1252912257 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funjun < 1252912277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have a ca, so you can have a cajun < 1252912278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252912282 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in perl 6, they are always unordered < 1252912282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n\?/?/ < 1252912319 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuations, uh... < 1252912319 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cojun... < 1252912319 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1252912383 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail just gave me a sweet ad < 1252912384 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mongolia Travel - www.DiscoverMongolia.mn - Tours, Hotels, Flights and Trains. Get Affordable Rates. Book Today! < 1252912418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you thought that Mongolia was just the land of Genghis Khan, think again." < 1252912420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn < 1252912422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was just booking my ticket < 1252912455 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of calling this language Khan back when it was more like haskell in syntax < 1252912480 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because genghis khan used arrows extensively, as would this language < 1252912485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1252912497 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, i don't know < 1252912502 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did make a nice logo < 1252912586 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3396/khano.png i think < 1252912600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst maze ever < 1252912613 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is phags-pa < 1252912620 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language used by the khans < 1252912625 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(later khans) < 1252912639 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says qa-yan, translated as khan < 1252912778 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, it needs little pictures of scooby-doo and the various things that aren't the guy wearing a mask < 1252912786 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one image of the guy who is < 1252912801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut < 1252912810 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have hanna-barbara cartoons in britain, you aren't missing out < 1252912817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course we do < 1252912821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to figure out the relevance :P < 1252912826 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maze < 1252912834 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a little kid's thing < 1252912836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst reference ever :P < 1252912843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1252912847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like those puzzle things on easter eggs and shit < 1252912851 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252912864 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it so no one would use the language < 1252912869 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a worthy goal...? < 1252912888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1252912922 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the omnipotent benevolent personified deity, the great Satan? < 1252912975 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at christianity today, it seems like satan gets credited with more than the benevolent side of god < 1252912984 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and god causes hurricane katrina < 1252912991 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he can't be benevolent < 1252913000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean... christians are irrational? < 1252913001 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that leaves satan < 1252913002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never would I ever have guessed. < 1252913012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not "today"; god kills far more people than satan in the bible < 1252913016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he's kind of a dick. < 1252913023 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :satan isn't in the old testament < 1252913031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was talking about god < 1252913036 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(omg lowercase) < 1252913038 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the serpent is < 1252913048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wat. < 1252913070 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiiiiiiiiiiii coppro < 1252913075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if god gets capitalized pronouns, there's got to be something wrong with spelling his name uncapitalized < 1252913085 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, wrong religion, not angkor wat < 1252913089 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: hi < 1252913098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g*d < 1252913100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nix < 1252913105 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you a professional cop or a reference to coprophilia? < 1252913110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: neither < 1252913111 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope the former < 1252913113 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: neither < 1252913118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we joke about the latter! < 1252913129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you suck. eat shit! < 1252913130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT < 1252913132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DO < 1252913133 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I deride your ability to read < 1252913140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I actually thought *nix was like g*d when I was young, before ever using any *nix < 1252913141 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii < 1252913151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like programmers exalted unix so much that they refused to spell the u < 1252913153 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be great < 1252913156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like jews and shit with g*d < 1252913163 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'looooooooooooooooo < 1252913166 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only programmers could agree on something < 1252913184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nix doesn't even make any sense, it's not Linix < 1252913191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't even Freanix < 1252913192 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*n?x < 1252913198 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.*n.?x < 1252913202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so BSD is out then? < 1252913211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: that second ? is odd < 1252913213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a Unx < 1252913216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{*n?x,*BSD} < 1252913221 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what happened with judaism not allowing YHWH to be spoken and the Jehovah's Witnesses making the romanization of YHWH into the name of their religion? < 1252913228 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1252913236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Solaris < 1252913240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ssh < 1252913242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol Jehovah's Witnesses < 1252913255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like jehovah's poopnesses < 1252913263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amirite < 1252913268 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a jehovah's witness knocks on a rabbi's door < 1252913273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, what about ssh? I think you mean *shh :P < 1252913277 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rabbi covers his ears, goes "lalalalalala" < 1252913296 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i would too < 1252913311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1252913321 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been very nice to jehovah's witnesses when they come to the door < 1252913326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a really bad joke: < 1252913327 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when i close the door < 1252913329 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i yelll < 1252913332 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAIL SATAN < 1252913335 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An Irishman walks out of the door. < 1252913346 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a bar. < 1252913348 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs sleep < 1252913359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never had the opportunity of conversing with a jehovah's witness < 1252913365 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not a foo? < 1252913369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be fun to have them go away deeply disturbed at this satanic 14-year-old < 1252913369 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, are you mssing out < 1252913378 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on nothing < 1252913380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i guess by 14 they can chalk it off to teenage rebellion < 1252913381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a shame < 1252913389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notostraca: yeah they seem very boring < 1252913392 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need an old guy to do it < 1252913400 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or answer the door < 1252913404 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just speak in tongues < 1252913410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.*n.?x would match qnx, although it's debatable whether that's a good thing. < 1252913420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1252913427 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qnx? < 1252913430 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a thing? < 1252913441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a real-timey sort of an OS. < 1252913454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aimed primarily at the embedded systems market". < 1252913576 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1252913587 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this channel is heating up < 1252913604 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I got to go in another ~20 mins < 1252913611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( embedded systems < 1252913611 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's not a binary not < 1252913637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefly: you're 20 minutes late. Go now! < 1252913645 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I start in 50 minutes < 1252913688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the unary binary not. < 1252913699 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not < 1252913709 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... ouch... < 1252913709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just said it's "not". < 1252913725 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there the lack of a comma after "No" has an important meaning < 1252913750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not that not, then it must be the Awk regular-expression matching operator, but it doesn't really seem to make sense there. < 1252913772 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy, #nethack has gotten into a MMO debate < 1252913783 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some languages isn't ~ the marker for negative numbers? < 1252913802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1252913806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also, of course, used for matching < 1252913815 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too, but can't name one right now. < 1252913835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's of course also the INTERCAL "select" operator. < 1252913842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's binary < 1252913870 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my chicken scratchings, ~ usually ends up as being used for matching < 1252913878 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Always actually spell out "approx." when in #esoteric < 1252913892 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To avoid discussions about the choice of symbol < 1252913897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think this pedanticness is annoying. < 1252913935 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying? < 1252913939 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define annoying < 1252913943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoying. < 1252913946 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1252913965 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~~ being used as the "matches" operator, which may be cheaper, for instance because an RE engine doesn't need to capture < 1252913997 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the other way round, if I decide that double-symbols mean bitwise and single mean logical < 1252914061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is video game music so awesome? < 1252914077 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252914089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked that before. < 1252914093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is that it isn't for the most part. < 1252914199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to get audio working here sometime. < 1252914207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again Cygwin's crappiness is putting me off this. < 1252914232 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252914289 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did I? < 1252914303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A day or two ago. < 1252914312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No answers, though. < 1252914347 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1252914392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :video game music isn't necessarily the best out there, but it beats the hell out of the radio < 1252914421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does everything. < 1252914646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252914699 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252914824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers getting Arch Linux working < 1252914836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it failed pretty badly the last time... < 1252915008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not even sure if Chromium is usable on Linux yet... nor do I know if there's a better graphical IRC client than X-Chat... graphical IRC on linux tends to suck ime < 1252915120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the font rendering beats ClearType... although not the fonts. < 1252915172 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off to school -> < 1252915189 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252915199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1252915200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1252915872 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252916023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool Should I try to install Arch Linux? < 1252916037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7? < 1252916039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252916040 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252916056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure that I shouldn't try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7? Last chance. < 1252916058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252916059 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252916065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then should I try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7? < 1252916067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252916067 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1252916074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure that I shouldn't try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7? Last chance... again. < 1252916075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252916076 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252916081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fuck you. < 1252916172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bot's quite a waffler. < 1252916311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you both think I should try to install Arch Linux over the current Windows 7 and are sure? < 1252916313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1252916313 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1252916316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1252916344 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glio. < 1252916357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: gliosperous < 1252916413 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252916424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1252916558 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gliovorous fog < 1252916585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glio becoming gliosperous in the gliovorous fog < 1252916608 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well who wouldn't become sperous in a fog that's out to get you < 1252916628 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do my swedish homework :| < 1252916640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bork bork bork < 1252916684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: should i < 1252917032 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1252917040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1252917046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know everything < 1252917049 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do my swedish homework and maybe i will < 1252917055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1252917117 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although transcribing the a4 article to you in priv might be slightly more work than just reading it < 1252917255 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyone read complexity theory companion? it looks rather promising < 1252917285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1252917366 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Be more esoteric!" < 1252917499 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complexity theory is very esoteric, actually the whole preface of the book is about how esoteric it is < 1252917747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should teach courses on random shit < 1252917764 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"most people view complexity theory as an arcane realm populated by pointy-hatted (if not indeed pointy-headed) sorcerers stirring cauldrons of recursion theory with wands of combinatorics, while chanting incantations involving complexity classes whose very names contain hundreds of characters and sear the tongues of mere mortals" < 1252917778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the deal is, someone gives you some money and then they can go wherever you are and you teach them about a random esoteric topic that you haven't before, unplanned < 1252917788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like once a week for three months < 1252917792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be great < 1252917800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, 10 people doing it < 1252917824 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be great, but i'm not a very good teacher :) < 1252917835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the end you'd have a grasp of theundecidable asymptomatic complexity theory when applied to faux-regular metalanguages < 1252917837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the undecidable < 1252917838 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to be slightly too formal < 1252917840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other stuff < 1252917853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*also, only one space before the < 1252917866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to bake cauliflower using only two sticks < 1252917892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to use a fire to power a computer, explained with a shitload of esoteric physics < 1252917904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the cyclic syntactical structures of fractal systems < 1252917909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1252917990 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, those are my areas of expertise. < 1252917999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1252918028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, everything about graphs ever < 1252918192 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read half of the material of our graph theory course (for funsies), i knew about 3/50 of the theorems beforehand < 1252918249 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, more, but stll i wouldn't say i know *any* graph theory < 1252918251 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still < 1252918260 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i basically just know what graphs are < 1252918266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1252918268 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they are sexy beasts < 1252918276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you'd learn it < 1252918278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while teaching us < 1252918279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1252918288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, sitting there with a textbook < 1252918303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very long latency < 1252918331 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish they lectured the graph theory course this year too, was too busy to take it last year < 1252918345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible < 1252918352 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, usually they wait a few years before repeating < 1252918365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean business. < 1252918384 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most students use at least 3 years for their master's < 1252918389 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are lazy < 1252918390 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1252918407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was pretty busy, not as busy as i am now, but anyway < 1252918537 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were actually a few courses i didn't take just because i thought i had enough. < 1252918565 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which naturally bugs me to death, have to fight the urge to do the homework for those courses just because < 1252918637 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i am done. < 1252918641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a distributed computing (the theoretical aspect of it, no engineeringy things) seminar course about a book; the professor hadn't read it, and said that he just arranged the seminar course to have the students present the contents to help motivate him to read it, as well as to find the interesting parts. < 1252918651 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's game theory time < 1252918669 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252918725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game theory? more like lame theory < 1252918734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252918734 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252918743 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252918805 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game theory is fun < 1252918809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME < 1252918811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEORY < 1252918891 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lecturer sucks though, much of what he says is incomprehensible because of his weird accent, and the homework usually lacks some of the crucial definitions, so you have to guess the question first < 1252918918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1252918935 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, i was being on your side there < 1252918942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just yawning < 1252918944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i am most tired < 1252918954 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i finally learned to suppress a yawn < 1252918965 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually used the last lecture to train it < 1252918968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can do that, but it makes me feel like crap < 1252918985 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you forget you were about to yawn < 1252918989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1252919008 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant by suppressing, obviously anyone can just *not yawn* < 1252919044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can your mother < 1252919046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think so < 1252919060 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt she's interested in random body control exercises. < 1252919072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they involve HER GENITALIA < 1252919076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1252919080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1252919102 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total zinger < 1252919106 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go see ya < 1252919107 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1252919111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i zinged your mom < 1252919113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bed < 1252919115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night < 1252919245 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be so cool to father you a brother < 1252919315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1252919347 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i haven't understood the concept of mum jokes yet < 1252919398 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it, i'd be like your stepfather, you could sit in my lap and hear stories about complexity theory < 1252919955 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, my touchpad went crazy, the pointer keeps moveing randomly in circles when i touch the pad < 1252919967 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means*moving < 1252919970 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1252919996 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means buttons are almost impossible to press, because you have to press at the exact right moment < 1252920066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nub ftw (I'm not having another clit joke incident) < 1252920074 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit it's getting worse < 1252920075 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252920079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disable the trackpad < 1252920081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the kb < 1252920088 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably restart the computer < 1252920088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can turn on using the numpad to mouserise < 1252920090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in windows < 1252920115 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have a numpad, and i know that, and i don't know where that is on vista, and i don't like using it < 1252920125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do, it's just fn-some letters < 1252920127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly < 1252920132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most laptops have a numpad overlaid on fn < 1252920135 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, but that's even more annoying. < 1252920145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a fun challenge < 1252920158 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252920162 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if i like fun challenges! < 1252920172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's control panel -> ease of access -> change mouse works blah -> turn on mouse keys on 7 at least < 1252920176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite similar to vista < 1252920188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can make it focus a window when you hover over it. < 1252920188 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather < 1252920191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useless. < 1252921253 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252921280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably should've read what you said, i'm not exactly that good at navigating without the mouse < 1252921289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so searching for the mouse thing was rather hard < 1252921296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was under "make the mouse easier to use" < 1252921311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1252921319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"change how your mouse works" for me < 1252921342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked at the mouse options < 1252921360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason i thought that's where mouse options would be. < 1252921365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252921377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn on the ctrl/shift to ac/decelerate < 1252921384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's painfully slow to get moving otherwise < 1252921407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also apart from the fact i always forget to put numlock on/off, i love this < 1252921433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's as fast as it can be now, so pressing ctrl actually makes it move too fast < 1252921441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably slow it down a bit and use ctrl < 1252921455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default setting it like one pixel a sec < 1252921480 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252921495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even at full it's slow to get moving for me < 1252921516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can't change direction without losing momentum, which is annoying < 1252921536 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at full speed + ctrl, i can't move it less than half the screen < 1252921543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway now it's perfect < 1252921592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there was an ui that changed constantly < 1252921597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a < 1252921624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i pronounced it in finnish < 1252921661 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252921673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252921686 0 :oklofog!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1252921816 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaand i'm gone again < 1252921818 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------------------> < 1252921827 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252922788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252923088 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252925216 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1252926280 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252926322 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252926535 0 :fizzie!i=fis@83.150.124.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252926848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Police 'encouraged' to hack more < 1252926850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Home Office has signed up to an EU strategy against cybercrime that "encourages" police across Europe to remotely access personal computers.]] < 1252926851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1252926853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one step closer to fascism < 1252926877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK's politics might be better (but not by much) than America's, but our day-to-day oppression is far worse < 1252927140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs install time < 1252927147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252928861 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it" < 1252928946 0 :atrapado!n=roper@19.55.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252930003 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252931007 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-41-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252931032 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252931366 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1252932792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1252933404 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252933825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252933826 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252933917 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252933917 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252934847 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252935359 0 :ehird!n=ding@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252935385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, even in AUR it seems that arch linux has no package for the beautiful pristine Hobbit netcat, untouched by any patches < 1252935414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want IPv6, I don't want super-hardened super-ugly OpenBSD crap, I don't want whatever Debian did to it and I definitely don't want any netcat clones... just give me netcat... < 1252935435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess I'll be compiling that myself. Anyone alive? I haven't installed X yet. < 1252935534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess not. I'll go install X now, and then some window manager. < 1252935536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252935575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, the "let's keep silent so ehird thinks the channel is empty" conspiracy succeeded magnificentiously. < 1252936690 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently < 1252936691 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252936875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252936875 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252936933 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252936933 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1252937160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252937467 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252937490 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1252937589 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252937754 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252937774 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252937873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doesn't your fspace_vector_is_cardinal (and the same thing in vector.c) have an unnecessary test? You do x = ABS(v->x), y = ABS(v->y) and then return false if x+y != 1, which is good; but then you also return false if "x && y". At that test, you already know that x+y == 1 and both are positive integers; it's not really possible for "x && y" to be true, since then x+y would be at least 2. < 1252937948 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252938070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (And related to previous, are you sure that ABS is safe? I see you cast it to unsigned, but I doubt that really helps; abs/llabs returns something signed and the documentation for them says it's undefined behaviour if the result is not representable, which it is for the -2^(N-1) case.) < 1252938539 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-162.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252940166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The former sounds like something the optimizer might pick up on. < 1252941313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm possibly < 1252941339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how comes you looked at that? < 1252941407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just browsing." I've been doing some jitfunge cleanup lately, just peeked a bit at your guts. < 1252941413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252941416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, must go to shoppery now, away. < 1252941615 0 :MigoMipo!n=chatzill@84-217-0-162.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252942353 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252942431 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252943909 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1252943950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: the UK TV advertising wavelengths are currently satuated with insurance price comparison website adverts < 1252943956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly, we need a price comparison comparison website < 1252944067 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol so meta~ < 1252944212 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252944299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo chown -R ais523:ais523 /home/ais523/.gnupg/* < 1252944313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why that ended up set to root:root anyway < 1252944424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can you think of a better, but equally fast way? < 1252944435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropping the un-needed test of course < 1252944887 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252945355 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252945601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to understand Slashdot groupthink < 1252945612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft's tests find that the worst-case upgrade time for Windows 7 is about 20 hours < 1252945617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot accuse Microsoft of spreading FUD < 1252945685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err. I thought slashdot was against windows 7 < 1252945688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or windows < 1252945690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1252945695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, mostly < 1252945701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's a strong counter-contingent that's in favour < 1252945711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just, accusing Microsoft of spreading FUD about Windows is ridiculous < 1252945747 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252946003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1252946821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, I saw a laptop with a circular touchpad today < 1252946828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1252946853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a packard bell < 1252947524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any good reason to have a rectangular screen btw? < 1252947539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to pack into memory in a quick-to-unpack way < 1252947543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252947547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplicative addressing on the video RAM is pretty simple < 1252947561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there are technical reasons why you'd want to make a cathode-ray-tube screen rectangualr < 1252947564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rectangular < 1252947564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, polar coordinates for the pixels on screen would be kind of interesting though < 1252947574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they don't apply as much to CRTs < 1252947580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this would not apply to LCD I guess? < 1252947586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as much to LCDs < 1252947597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, you generally want all the pixels to be the same shape < 1252947602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make a circular screen hard < 1252947618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it wouldn't rule out, say, hexagonal or triangluar screens < 1252947631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexagonal sounds fun < 1252947654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also weren't those old radars circular? < 1252947663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the displays I mean < 1252947665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because the range of the radar was circular < 1252947671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they didn't want to waste phosphor < 1252947689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are those technical reasons then you mentioned? < 1252947699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to do with the way that the electron beam is steered < 1252947712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1252947714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking, you can aim at a rectangular region < 1252947748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252948280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea if there is a parallel gzip implementation? < 1252948289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if that even is possible < 1252948290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1252948301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clearly possible, sort-of < 1252948308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that you could just cut the file up and zip each part separately < 1252948382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant in a way so that it can be unpacked by standard gunzip < 1252948393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or parallel unpacking from standard gzip < 1252948411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1252948421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252948429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a parallel bzip2 iirc < 1252948435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed compatible < 1252948564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be possible; I mean, you can do a zlib full-flush (which discards the dictionary pretty much) at any point you want, and the inflater must survive that. < 1252948582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a bit suboptimal if you split it into too tiny pieces, though. < 1252948592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zlib.net/pigz/ < 1252948670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah wb. < 1252948683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about the question above about better implementation of that function? < 1252948695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be equally fast < 1252948708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the current ones compiles to very good asm on x86/x86_64 at least < 1252948721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llabs/abs being inlined iirc. < 1252948728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, intrinsics < 1252948763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't have any obviously fast one; and of course compilation is compiler-dependant. < 1252948813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in general I optimise for gcc < 1252948829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it do abs/llabs, incidentally? < 1252948857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, let me check, was a while ago I last looked < 1252948916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they'd stick me in front of an assembler with no Internet connection and no references available, I'd probably write something like "test rN, rN; jns .skip; neg rN; .skip:" but maybe there's something clevererer. < 1252948931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which dialect is that? < 1252948957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems to use sarl < 1252948964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for -DUSE32 < 1252949007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the abs() code is jump free even < 1252949029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when it gets to the actual tests are there jumps < 1252949037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf does abs by adding 128 and seeing if there's a carry < 1252949059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you can tell if there's a carry by seeing if you go to 0 at any point during the addition loop) < 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sarl $31, %eax #, tmp63 < 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : movl %eax, %ecx # tmp63, x < 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : xorl (%rdi), %ecx # .x, x < 1252949097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : subl %eax, %ecx # tmp63, x < 1252949103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like the relevant code for x < 1252949112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use sign-magnitude, then abs is trivial < 1252949152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, two complement is what I'm stuck with :P < 1252949163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, the ".foo" local-label was from nasm, but it's not certainly unique there. And nasm doesn't support ;s to separate instructions, I don't think, it's just that I wanted it on one line. And "rN" is standing for "rax, rbx, ..., r8, r9, ..." < 1252949179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doing it in a circuit, you'd xor every bit with the top bit, then half-add the old top bit to the resutl < 1252949181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*result < 1252949216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mhm. That doesn't seem to make sense to me, but it works, and profiling showed it was fastest < 1252949231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is called a lot in every ip moving, it is quite performance criticial < 1252949232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(half-addition is like addition, but it can only add 0 or 1; and it takes exactly half the circuitry that a full adder does) < 1252949237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot,* < 1252949253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, that works more or less exactly the same way as that hardware implementation I described < 1252949278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's pretty nifty. < 1252949280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh I thought you were describing what the asm did? < 1252949282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's using a different temporary < 1252949286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I was working out out from scratch < 1252949299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it has to, what with the thing being passed by reference < 1252949308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that may be suboptimal < 1252949314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's using a 32-bit value that's 0 or -1 as the temporary < 1252949317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on x86_64, but probably best on x86 < 1252949321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a 1-bit value that's 0 or 1 < 1252949324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252949345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, 32 bits is as cheap as 1 bit on a 32-bit processor < 1252949353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, what happens for the most negative case? < 1252949359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it was undef according to docs < 1252949363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really irritating < 1252949371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: returns the same value, I think < 1252949378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252949387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why do you care about abs on every IP move? < 1252949414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well no, not every one, but rather every wrap around, < 1252949416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, a jump-free test will be faster than a jumpy one, almost always < 1252949419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it matters < 1252949435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the test takes the same branch almost every time < 1252949446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mispredicted jumps require flushing the entire pipeline < 1252949456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There was some cautioning in the manuals not to blindly think that conditional moves and sets would be faster even though there's no jump involved. < 1252949461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, it isn't as bad on modern cpus as it was on pentium4 < 1252949475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or s/even though/because/ but anyway. < 1252949478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: correct, it depends on the processor < 1252949485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes what fizzie said, due to execution resources usage < 1252949493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1252949496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other reasons iirc < 1252949582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if it does return the same value, and then you cast that to unsigned, I think it would then turn out to be the correct 2^(N-1) unsigned number. < 1252949591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252949607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it works, it just isn't guaranteed to. < 1252949643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think many people use the largest negative delta in their programs. < 1252949719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and if they are, it hardly matters whether it's positive or not < 1252949725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you come to the same place both ways round < 1252949746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but "undefined behaviour" is not that limited. < 1252949751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1252949810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It can matter if the instruction you hit is something that depends on the delta < 1252949816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the context; AnMaster is testing for "is this vector cardinal" by checking for abs(x) + abs(y) == 1, basically. (And the cardinality test is to use faster wrapping in that case.) < 1252949835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, good point; but are there any non-fingerprint instructions that would care? < 1252949857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y couldn't report the abs value of the most negative int < 1252949857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] come to mind, but they just shunt the problem one instruction ahead. < 1252949863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252949869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and [ and ] just leave you back in the previous situation < 1252949870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y reports the delta, so that's one. < 1252949882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: except, Befunge has no representation for INT_MAX+1 < 1252949891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would have to report the negative value < 1252949909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. y wouldn't use the is cardinal test < 1252949914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, yes. < 1252949922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do people use wrapping in Befunge-98 programs, by the way? < 1252949931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, quite often < 1252949939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it may be the shortest way < 1252949942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to where you want to go < 1252949951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 needs it quite a bit; in Befunge-98, though, it would tend to make programs less extensible < 1252949960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: {, which sets the storage offset to position + delta? < 1252949960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and almost all the time it is cardinal wrapping < 1252949968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because non-cardinal wrapping is such a pain < 1252949980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: comes to the same location both ways round < 1252949983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, that brings you back to the same point as well < 1252949991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, have you tried to give GCC the logical condition what you want -- something like "(x == 0 && (y == 1 || y == -1)) ||(y == 0 && (x == 1 ||x == -1))" -- and see what it optimizes to? It might be a bit too complicated-and-explicit to yield something extremely clever, but you never know. < 1252950031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then no, I don't think there are any outside fingerprints. < 1252950060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x*y == 1 seems like an obvious way to do that < 1252950088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... although n*2^32+1 isn't prime for all n, so you'd have to make sure it didn't carry < 1252950095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, multiplication can be slow < 1252950098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the processor < 1252950114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er... given that in all true cases either x or y is zero, I don't see how x*y == 1 tests for it. < 1252950117 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean x*y == 0 && (y*y+x*x == 1)? < 1252950124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Incidentally, have you tried to give GCC the logical condition what you want -- something like "(x == 0 && (y == 1 || y == -1)) || (y == 0 && (x == 1 || x == -1))" -- and see what it optimizes to? It might be a bit too complicated-and-explicit to yield something extremely clever, but you never know. <-- iirc it was something with lots of jumps < 1252950219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: oh, good point, that's probably slowr < 1252950239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of wrapping, it's awful in jitfunge, since when you go and 'p' something outside the existing space bounds, I'll have to reconsider all traces that have wrapped that way, to see if they'd have instead hit whatever you put there. < 1252950323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of the same hassle with ;; jumps -- compiled traces containing those need to care if someone puts a semicolon inside there. < 1252950329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can easily think of programs where even CCBI will beat jitfunge < 1252950341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the worst case scenarios seems rather bad < 1252950358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding a single semicolon between two existing semicolons strikes me as very bad coding practice < 1252950369 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It strikes me as awesome < 1252950372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would the point even be? < 1252950384 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commenting out code at runtime < 1252950384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1252950388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, for a Funge program it might well be an awesome way to redirect some code to go completely differently. < 1252950442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think heavy self-modification will ever be very fast with jitfunge. It'd need a bit more heuristics that I want to implement to realize things like "okay, now you're messing around too much with this area, I'll just fall back to interpreting here and skip the JITting". < 1252950467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which adds some overhead of tracking that < 1252950500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw I thought about an interesting different way to beat slowdown < 1252950515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Beat"? < 1252950516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be sane for other purposes though < 1252950518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :P < 1252950535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, make your value column indexed < 1252950538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, to win the fight against the final boss in slowdown. < 1252950538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think SQL < 1252950557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added a boss? My bad, I'll fix that < 1252950561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would work for cardinal workaround < 1252950567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wraparound* < 1252950568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1252950578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't worked out details for non-cardinal yet < 1252950597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why not have a flag saying whether the IP is cardinal or not < 1252950601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that every delta-changing command sets? < 1252950608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be faster or slower < 1252950617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that happens a lot more often than wraparound though in general < 1252950628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252950629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it sounds to me like a clear pessimiation < 1252950631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly it's <>^v < 1252950637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would just be setting the flag to a known value < 1252950650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use x a lot in my own code though. < 1252950658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm < 1252950666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I read somewhere that TraceMonkey keeps execution counters for JavaScript statements, and only JITs "hot" spots. < 1252950679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I doubt x is more common than wraparound < 1252950734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, worth a try when I have time. I really was just looking for fixing the bug today, because I'm busy with uni currently < 1252950750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but will put it in todo < 1252950888 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1252950979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess C doesn't specify what the unary - will do to INT_MIN on a system where |INT_MAX| < |INT_MIN|? What with being so tight-lipped about signed integer wrap-around in general. < 1252951123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1252952285 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252952918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1252952922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably < 1252953642 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1252953848 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, aren't most signed overflows undefined behaviour? < 1252953880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1252953896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read it hours ago < 1252953899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1252953949 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess about what -INT_MIN will do if |INT_MAX| < |INT_MIN| is 'undefined behavour'. < 1252953963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, same < 1252953965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, google seems down < 1252953973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is the reasonable guess. < 1252953989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, not < 1252954017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what it would do in pracice, I would guess -INT_MIN => INT_MIN. < 1252954024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c -INT_MIN < 1252954026 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1252954033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1252954034 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c 1 < 1252954052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : huh, google seems down <-- works here? < 1252954053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INT_MIN is in limits.h, I think < 1252954056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really remember enough C to know what to import < 1252954060 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limits.h < 1252954061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might not be in the standard headers < 1252954068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that EgoBot uses < 1252954077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: worked on second try, probably temporary glitch < 1252954079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is in the _C_ standard headers < 1252954092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I meant EgoBot's < 1252954108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I just graduated today; and had to harass people over IRC to find out that fact. (Typically they send the email announcements out the same day, but for some reason today they didn't bother. Well, maybe I'll get the email tomorrow.) < 1252954113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I liked sqrt(-garfield) too < 1252954119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well done < 1252954127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have you got your post-graduation application off in time? < 1252954131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gratz etc. < 1252954134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i found the lower left panel hard to read :D < 1252954148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately there was the script < 1252954148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes < 1252954159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and the link to the original < 1252954163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No hurry for that, the deadlines are just this Wednesday and Friday. :p < 1252954207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They're pretty much written, though, I've just kept them waiting to find out whether I actually am a graduate or not.) < 1252954313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so clearly, we need a price comparison comparison website < 1252954315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1252954332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would say yo dawg, but thinks that meme has died now < 1252954399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ sudo chown -R ais523:ais523 /home/ais523/.gnupg/* < 1252954399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, all your yo dawg is dead < 1252954411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes? < 1252954412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes there needs to be a chowder command < 1252954414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you going to point out that the /* is redundant? < 1252954428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan suddenly realizes there needs to be a chowder command <-- what? < 1252954429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not < 1252954437 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* excludes .* < 1252954445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, good point < 1252954454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's chown, there needs to chowder < 1252954454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be < 1252954456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, as far as I know, there aren't nested dotfiles in that hierarchy < 1252954463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dot files *inside* a dot directory is evil though < 1252954505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, chown, chmod, what would "chowder" be? < 1252954507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get the pun < 1252954535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i just like chowder and thinks it deserves a command < 1252954544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also chgrp i think < 1252954550 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chsh < 1252954556 0 :augur_!n=augur@129-2-134-162.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1252954564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what the hell is "owder"? < 1252954578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i have .www/.htaccess~ < 1252954582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's nothing, but "chowder" is something. < 1252954583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: beats me < 1252954589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has "chomp", though it doesn't really change the omp-ness of anything. < 1252954591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1252954597 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252954598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define chowder < 1252954599 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* a thick soup or stew made with milk and bacon and onions and potatoes \ [22]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * Chowder is an American animated television series that debuted on Cartoon Network on November 2, 2007. ... < 1252954605 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could also use a cheddar. < 1252954606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yummy < 1252954613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitions of chowder on the Web: < 1252954613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thick soup or stew made with milk and bacon and onions and potatoes < 1252954613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn < 1252954614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1252954634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, I should check if anyone else written anything when I switch back from the browser window < 1252954638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes AnMaster is not yet one with HackEgo  < 1252955337 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some would think: potatoes => Fail. < 1252955351 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-23-136.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252955495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why on earth? < 1252955515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think soup => fail though < 1252955606 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Too much carbohydrates in potato. And it isn't that good source of various micronutrients anyway... < 1252955646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a potato! They're just so awesomely round. < 1252955661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err, no, they are knobbly < 1252955663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And rotund! < 1252955669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotund? < 1252955689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gerund. Wait, no, not that. < 1252955726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rincewind likes potatoes. :p < 1252955733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe fecund? < 1252955759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style discworld < 1252955759 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) < 1252955769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What says you about potatoes? < 1252955770 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the fnord abbot folded his wrinkled hands and addressed lu-tze, one of those little uncertain laughs a man laughs who is unsure that he's not likeable. you couldn't help loving someone as soppy as that. < 1252955783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awfully tangent there < 1252955847 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Markov generator? That seems so "reality shifted by 90 degrees"... < 1252955847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testlm-disk says about "potatoes are": potatoes are inherently evil. < 1252955900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a generative n-gram model. Certainly you could formulate that in the Markov framework. < 1252955913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, the topic was potatos < 1252955914 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: glod gave buddy a lopsided look. " er. even the common people?' ' up here?' goodmountain, grimacing, balancing himself on two sticks. < 1252955945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get it to say anything nice about potatoes. :/ < 1252955947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, ... < 1252955948 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " we should always remember the songs he never had the patience to acquire it. just fnord" brutha began. and then, comrades, we must get... < 1252955953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're always just evil and black. < 1252955961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh? < 1252955980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"potatoes are there? iteration is where it's at" < 1252955993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, you do seem to pick one book that is easy to see in each, plus a bit of "garbage" < 1252955994 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ' he just looks as though they were, you know, that thing is in fnord of the < 1252955994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1252956013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is that from? < 1252956020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, ok, you disproved me < 1252956021 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " anyway, strong drink is a mocker, you know, i'm really rather pleased," said < 1252956068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, no I don't know < 1252956074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prod* < 1252956079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is that the limit < 1252956083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prods fizzie instead  < 1252956132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure where I had the source texts. < 1252956231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungotty < 1252956231 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ' old boots muttered the manager. ' old boots... old boots.' < 1252956268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem to be directly from much anything. < 1252956279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *that's* from Hogfather, I would say. < 1252956503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any non-recursive definition of fibonacci's sequence? < 1252956576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1252956587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1252956599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that golden-ratio based one. < 1252956603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252956608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_sequence#Closed_form_expression < 1252956630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also find it by typing a couple of the first Fib numbers to the online encyclopedia of integer youknowwhats. < 1252956645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1252956661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, uh no I don't know what it is < 1252956674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OEIS < 1252956682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/ < 1252956688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252956690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, OEIS < 1252956818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we did the derivation of that in the generating-functions course. < 1252956822 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even standard method of getting "closed" formula for any sequence of form a_n = sum(b_k * a_{n-k}, k, 1, N), a_x given for 1 <= x <= N. < 1252956850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, preudo-TeX? < 1252956863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX for prudes? < 1252956872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, uh I don't get it < 1252956879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"preudo" < 1252956920 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For 1 <= N <= 4, it results true closed formula. For higher N, one would need higher functions. < 1252956950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: that's just because you cannot solve quintics, i presume? < 1252956965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is still closed given the actual roots of the polynomial... < 1252956978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1252956991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh < 1252956993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseudo* < 1252957003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there was some subtlety when the polynomial had duplicate roots < 1252957017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. It involves solving roots of Nth degree polynomial. < 1252957112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically you take the polynomial equation x^n = sum(b_k * x^n) and solve that. then every function of the form f(n) = x^n is a solution to the original recursion < 1252957128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for fibonacci you get x^2 = x + 1 < 1252957141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sum... what is written over and under the sum sign here? < 1252957157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that not what your sum() does? < 1252957164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like \sum_{k=1}^N b_k ... < 1252957171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aha! < 1252957186 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's what I'd intuitively read it as. < 1252957197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1252957211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ? < 1252957214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^N = sum(b_k * x^n) i meant < 1252957222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with fizzie's bounds < 1252957269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That still leaves "n" a bit unclear, actually, if the sum index is just k. < 1252957274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then, assuming the polynomial has N distinct roots (which might be complex), you can then compose every other solution to the recursion with linear algebra summing those x^n solutions < 1252957282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oops < 1252957315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^N = sum(b_k * x^k), last try :D < 1252957319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1252957384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if some roots are not distinct, there is a trick to get extra functions for the duplicate roots but i'm not quite sure what it was < 1252957425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been something as simple as n*x^n < 1252957479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is: x^{N}=\sum_{k=1}^{N}b_{k}\times x^{k} < 1252957479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1252957505 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-095-208-140-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252957515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extra {} comes from that I was using lyx, due to not remembering exactly how the \sum one worked < 1252957518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_{k=0}^{N-1} i think < 1252957542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It looks like \sum_{k=1}^N b_k ... < 1252957545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (with fizzie's bounds < 1252957549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe make that first x^{N+1} < 1252957550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so not his bounds then? < 1252957604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bounds were for a different sum, actually. < 1252957617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's essentially just the equation which a function f(n) = x^n needs to satisfy to solve the recursion < 1252957634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1252957647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari's "a_n = sum(...)", which makes sense as $a_n = \sum_{k=1}^N b_k * a_{n-k}$. < 1252957657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what was b_k? < 1252957674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely forgot by now < 1252957676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coefficients from the recursion; b_1 = b_2 = 1 for Fibonacci. < 1252957679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the coefficients for the recursive linear equation you are trying to solve < 1252957680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252957715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, b_0 = b_1 = 0 for oerjan's sum, again. < 1252957746 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1252957785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it is definitely best to start with x^0 as the lowest, otherwise you get a spurious x = 0 solution < 1252957863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lowest x power in the sum < 1252957922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well not strictly spurious, it's just trivial) < 1252957980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if you want to use the same bounds and b_k subscripts as in the recursion-defining $a_n = \sum_{k=1}^N b_k a_{n-k}$ up there, would your polynomial go $x^N = \sum_{k=1}^N b_k x^{N-k}$ too? < 1252958011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1252958029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you have a minus < 1252958036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er subtraction < 1252958046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should learn to read some day < 1252958092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that recursion definition should have $a_N = , shouldn't it < 1252958097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh you have a minus er subtraction <-- what is wrong with the first term for it? < 1252958101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1252958106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n = N < 1252958118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think it's just trying to say a_n = b_1 a_{n-1} + b_2 a_{n-2} + ... there. < 1252958139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe < 1252958141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this decided to pass over my head < 1252958141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1252958172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just notationally squibbles, really. < 1252958185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok there's just some confusion because n and N are really the same up there < 1252958199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but then, yes < 1252958215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a_i becomes x^i < 1252958218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they're not; it's the recursive definition given for any a_n, while N is the number of coefficients. < 1252958231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1252958233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1252958234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes that explains a bit of it < 1252958243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1252958244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: scratch that < 1252958254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn case sensitivity < 1252958269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie said last < 1252958324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then a_{n-k} becomes x^{N-k} etc. < 1252958332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still confused. Anyway I don't think I need it, except for fib < 1252958348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you need a closed-form fib for? < 1252958368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is the square root of *any* prime an irrational number? or is it just square root of 2? < 1252958379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for bit, a_n = a_{n-1} + a_{n-2} becomes x^2 = x + 1 < 1252958386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: any < 1252958389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right < 1252958415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bit/fibonacci/ < 1252958424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what that came from < 1252958451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, assignment is "implement a less stupid than naive fib algorithms", this is obviously geared against dynamic programming or whatever the term is. < 1252958476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, that is WAY to obvious < 1252958486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: really, just set a_n = x^n and substitute < 1252958498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, AH! < 1252958542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how did one kind out b_k now again? it was coefficients right. I suspect there may be a language barrier here.. < 1252958556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just bad education < 1252958570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's anything especially stupid in the naive iterative Fibonacci; the unmemoized tree-recursion might be pushing it a bit, though. < 1252958577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :koeffisienter is perfectly valid in norwegian ;D < 1252958589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that was the case here that was given to design a better one than < 1252958615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: another efficient way of doing fibonacci uses matrix multiplication < 1252958623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, koefficienter? Well I know about that, but not in the context of recursive definitions < 1252958627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ooh that sounds fun < 1252958650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, got a link or something? < 1252958657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it is there on wikipedia < 1252958681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(n) = [[1 1] [0 1]]^n [1 1] modulo probably serious off-by-one errors < 1252958693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... we haven't got to "eigenvalues" yet, they are later in the course < 1252958726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I haven't been able to successfully figure it out myself from wikipedia < 1252958732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't eigenvalues to multiply matrices or take their powers < 1252958752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the eigenvalue thing is just another path to that x^n method, i think < 1252958766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1252958774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*need < 1252958777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, so far all we have done with matrixes has been the gauss/whatever-the-guy-was method for solving linear equation systems < 1252958784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(writing them as matrixes) < 1252958824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh "Augmented matrix" is the English term < 1252958831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "utökad matris" in Swedish < 1252958855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see the place in "Matrix form" section where it says closed form < 1252958863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er closed expression < 1252958874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia flat-out gives you the F_{2n-1} and F_{2n} formulas, which I guess are what you'd get from the matrix power and a square-and-multiply exponentiation. (This is really a guess, I don't feel like thinking.) < 1252958880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252958900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fizzie said < 1252959028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can essentially calculate F_n from the binary expansion of n (might be a bit off-by-one there since it's F_{2n-1}) < 1252959043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, F_n still grows exponentially < 1252959119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1252959141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it can work because we implemented it in lambdabot in #haskell a couple of times < 1252959170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about a non-exponential-to-calculate one? < 1252959171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or to say the same thing in another way, but since I already had this thing mostly written: with those formulas, given F_n and F_{n-1} (okay, and F_{n+1}, but that's just their sum), you should be able to calculate F_{2n} and F_{2n-1} and use that to get F_{4n} and F_{4n-1} and so on; much like you can utilize x, x^2, x^4, x^8 you get from squaring things to compute any x^n. < 1252959203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er the _size_ of F_n is exponential in n, you're not going to get away from that is what i am saying < 1252959229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah right. Where F is the sequence itself? (forgot if it was was upper or lower case f that was fib) < 1252959252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't even bothered to get the notation right ;) < 1252959273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, wikipedia uses F_n < 1252959279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1252959441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how comes you never see notation like: a < b > c ? (to say that b is bigger than both a and c, but not saying if a or c is largest) < 1252959451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number#Another_identity seems like the most relevant section < 1252959454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that would be same as a =< b < c < 1252959467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wouldn't < 1252959486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1252959535 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: Eigenvalues are closely associated with groups of linear diffrential equations. < 1252959557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I see. < 1252959577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I don't think we got to the differential ones yet < 1252959601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: this fibonacci stuff is essentially linear _difference_ equations, and there are many analogies between the theories iirc < 1252959643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well it is in the chapter on "recursion and induction" < 1252959662 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, x is eigenvalue of matrix X if (xI - X)Y = 0 has nontrivial solutions (Y is not 0). Which is equivalent to det(xI - X) = 0. < 1252959665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or wait am i confusing it < 1252959696 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-29-57.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1252959702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, where did the I in xI come from? < 1252959711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I is the identity matrix < 1252959715 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I is identity matrix of apporiate size. < 1252959715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252959719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also det? < 1252959726 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :derminant. < 1252959730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*determinant < 1252959744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is #esoteric talking about eigenstructure? < 1252959746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is listed in the course description for November < 1252959843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how comes you never see notation like: a < b > c <-- i think it's because you usually try to keep chains of relational operators somewhat transitive < 1252959856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would say a, c < b instead < 1252959876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or b > a, c perhaps more likely < 1252959894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: " AnMaster: er the _size_ of F_n is exponential in n --"; the value of F_n grows exponentially, but does the *size* of it, really? I mean, F_n is something like φ^n, and the size of the decimal representation of 10^n is obviously linear in n, and yet 10^n > φ^n. Well, okay, maybe that was just a different definition of "size". < 1252959899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well, the first one looks nicer < 1252959900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1252959909 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one uses multiply row and add to other to reduce the matrix to upper triangular form, the determinant is product of numbers in main diagonal in triangular form. < 1252959924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i didn't want to mention that :D < 1252959936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm interesting < 1252959942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why not? < 1252959950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made more sense than most other stuff so far < 1252959951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could put "a" and "c" on top of each other, and next to a very large "< b". < 1252959953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, f(n) is also exponential in n, and the size of f(n) is exponential in the size of n < 1252959976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would look like a/c < b but someone forgot the _ < 1252959979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter would be the relevant thing in complexity theory < 1252960043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the very happy case your variables are a, b, e instead, you could use " < b"; but maybe that's a bit limiting. < 1252960059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ooh that would be another nice notation: for a < b < c: a b c < 1252960095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saves characters < 1252960100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though not ink I guess) < 1252960132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not sure how to differentiate =< and == < 1252960151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or >= and =< < 1252960174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL has had this idea already < 1252960179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can combine '. into ! < 1252960211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is great, as ' is a paren character (nearly always opening paren in that context, although could theoretically be closing), and . is a sigil < 1252960247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what is the sigil for ? < 1252960268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it means "16-bit scalar variable" < 1252960268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what about .' ? < 1252960277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LaTeX gives you ten official sizes; \tiny, \scriptsize, \footnotesize, \small, \normalsize, \large, \Large, \LARGE, \huge and \Huge. (For some reason \HUGE is not listed; maybe it would be overkill.) Unfortunately those don't work in math mode. < 1252960282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, wasn't the name one-spot? < 1252960284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no statement but comments in which .' isn't a syntax error < 1252960285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two-spot < 1252960289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than sigil < 1252960296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the names of the sigil < 1252960299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigils < 1252960304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by extension-of the types < 1252960311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sigil"'s a general programming language concept < 1252960315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like "variable", or "identifier" < 1252960323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I want \GIGANTIC < 1252960330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and \ENORMOUS < 1252960342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Wordnet doesn't know about "sigil". Shameful. < 1252960354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, as it has a non-programming meaning too < 1252960358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl's $s, @s and %s are sigils, anyway. < 1252960362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what sigil is.... < 1252960376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why would wordnet NOT know it? < 1252960378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sigil doesn't have the programming meaning < 1252960384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it isn't very uncommon < 1252960394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the programming meaning? < 1252960401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the non-programming meaning < 1252960403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only < 1252960405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a character used to introduce a variable name < 1252960413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often in a hungarian-notation style, but enforced by the language < 1252960415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh like $ in shell < 1252960417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1252960426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perl's $s, @s and %s are sigils, anyway. < 1252960429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is generally irritating unless shell < 1252960436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes but I don't KNOW perl < 1252960439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would it help < 1252960442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay spam on the esolang forum < 1252960452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep forgetting the esolang forum exists < 1252960457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume everyone's seen *that* much of Perl. < 1252960460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'm not an admin there, so reporting it to me doesn't really help) < 1252960467 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mi co'a sipna" < 1252960478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how good are you at reading programs in languages you don't understand? < 1252960478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i got better after i subscribed to the rss < 1252960490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not counting esolangs < 1252960491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's still months between posts < 1252960493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, depends on what language it is. if it is APL or K, or J: Not at all < 1252960505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't know who is an admin there, perhaps only graue < 1252960516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a continuum, probably < 1252960527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less anyone could read correctly-indented unobfuscated Lua, for instance < 1252960530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Python < 1252960536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Perl's rather harder, due to its huge density < 1252960536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, C like? probably quite ok. Same for lisp-like. Haskell? Nop, perl neither. < 1252960542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can say a lot in a few characters < 1252960542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is very clear perl < 1252960546 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1252960548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems uncommon for one-liners < 1252960559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for python, I know it a bit < 1252960571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of Perl written that's pretty much like "shell script, except with regexps". < 1252960573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lua I also used a tiny bit < 1252960580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One-liners are a special breed though. < 1252960584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, [[ =~ ]] < 1252960585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://ais523.sartak.org/TAEB-AI-Planar/lib/TAEB/AI/Planar.pm is a Perl file I've written that aims to be clear rather than obfuscated < 1252960589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mostly me, sorear has a fwe patches there < 1252960601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typ: text/x-perl < 1252960605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1252960609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives me a download dialog < 1252960613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here < 1252960629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is "sartak"? < 1252960630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed for downloading via darcs, rather than viewing online < 1252960640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TAEB's lead maintainer < 1252960644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252960647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who came up with the idea in the first place, and wrote quite a bit of the code < 1252960670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does "extends" do? kate's perl mode doesn't think it is a key word for example < 1252960682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sugar for object-orientation < 1252960691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :introduced by Moose < 1252960694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't part of the core lang at all < 1252960695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, brb phone, will take a few minutes < 1252961794 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1252963126 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-069-065.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252963380 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242436251.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1252964326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just saw something funny: < 1252964336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone quoting "click" in the context of "link" < 1252964344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Swedish website though < 1252964398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to be exact, the site with info for the local busses) < 1252964545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Here you can see our time tables. "Click" on the time table on the left that you are interested in. You need Acrobat Reader to view the time tables.' < 1252964605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say it is definitely a Swedish word that isn't uncommon, and hasn't been during the last 10 years or so < 1252964624 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... what did it say? < 1252964640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, http://www.lanstrafiken.se/template/ResePlanerareUnder____2565.aspx < 1252964666 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, you wrote "quoting" < 1252964676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yes? quoteing? < 1252964679 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it as "someone writing 'click' instead of 'link'" < 1252964686 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read your line sloppily < 1252964694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, no I just find it funny to use quotes around that word < 1252964706 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, yeah, well I wouldn't do that at least < 1252964796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you "wouldn't" < 1252964817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I fail to see anything wrong with "wouldn't" < 1252964835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it just a lame pun? < 1252964841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than pointing out some error < 1252964856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes" < 1252964877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes to both? < 1252964890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maybe" < 1252964914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1252964930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you can only take a pun so far before it becomes "lame" < 1252964947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"true" < 1252964982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> true == "true". < 1252964982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false < 1252964991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, that maybe should have been "false" < 1252965002 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252965023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, it seems they go out of their way to make it accessible, except those features are broken without javascript < 1252965024 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adam_d < 1252965042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of them are < 1252965054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you do realize that after the first couple of lines it's your reaction that makes it funny to continue, right? < 1252965063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "no" < 1252965082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and why the hell would you provide a sign language version of a web page? < 1252965089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio version yes. but sign language? < 1252965106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what does a sign language webpage look like? < 1252965116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't clicked on the link yet < 1252965138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is a link to a *.mov and *.wmv < 1252965169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it is just someone talking the stuff in sign language it seems. Don't understand that of course < 1252965654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, ok I have a theory: 1) they also provide the travel service for disabled people (anyone from US will have no clue what this is about) 2) This city is some sort of national center for higher education for deaf people < 1252965661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there is some logic behind all this < 1252965864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that Planar.pm, what does it do? < 1252965879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it seems to need to fit into a much larger context to make sense < 1252965885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make sense stand-alone < 1252965975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use constant veto_travel => 0; <-- huh? < 1252965984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the huh for there? < 1252965989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it simply creates a constant < 1252965996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sugar for sub veto_travel { 0; } < 1252965998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this travel with level teleport? < 1252966011 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252966012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's travel with _ < 1252966018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus, what does the "use" mean < 1252966029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1252966062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use constant imports constant.pm < 1252966066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : TAEB->config->get_ai_config->{'overall_plan'} // 'SlowDescent'; <-- that fucked syntax highlighting in kate, at the second / everything is green < 1252966068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is responsible for doing the sugar < 1252966071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except comments < 1252966073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a 5.10ism < 1252966078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1252966088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// is a new operator in Perl 5.10 < 1252966093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1252966096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1252966107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replaces undef with the given value, has no effect on anything else < 1252966114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1252966115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1252966122 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1252966126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if the left argument doesn't have a value, return the right argument < 1252966130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise return the left argument < 1252966134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, who thought such an operator was a good idea? < 1252966146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; but it is a useful operator < 1252966153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, syntax sugar? < 1252966154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for doing things like default values < 1252966166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not quite sugar, it avoids having to use a temporary var < 1252966170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks he wanted that // recently (ironically for the /// interpreter) but didn't know about it < 1252966171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1252966172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or write the left argument out twice < 1252966200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : traits => [qw/TAEB::AI::Planar::Meta::Trait::DontFreeze/], < 1252966204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i worked around it though :) < 1252966206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean < 1252966212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't freeze what? < 1252966239 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252966240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what does the whole module thing do? implement some sort of strategy for this nethack bot? < 1252966248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when freezing state, don't freeze that < 1252966256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that's one of the modules doing the strategy for TAEB < 1252966263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, freezing state? < 1252966271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, locked up? < 1252966276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as in, continuations but on disk < 1252966279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252966296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can exit the program, load it again, and it's in the same state again < 1252966308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on tape or other long term storage media I guess it would be "freeze dried" even < 1252966392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is most stuff not stored? < 1252966404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there seems to be an awful lot of repetition here < 1252966407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stuff like caches that can be reconstructed anyway < 1252966455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is lots of complete copies, or very similiar entries to: < 1252966457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : isa => 'HashRef[ArrayRef[TAEB::AI::Planar::Plan]]', < 1252966457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is => 'rw', < 1252966457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : default => sub { {} }, < 1252966457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : traits => [qw/TAEB::AI::Planar::Meta::Trait::DontFreeze/], < 1252966474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely this can be simplified in some way? < 1252966512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it could be, but it would be less clear < 1252966516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252966521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could generate the code at runtime, for instance < 1252966535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several bits of TAEB actually do that, but it grates against my typical programming style < 1252966666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this can lead to inaccurate results sometimes when our resource levels change" <-- eh? < 1252966781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "Phasers can walk anywhere." <-- is that true for all levels? Such as sokoban? < 1252966792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's an approximation for monster routing < 1252966801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has to be simple < 1252966806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1252966809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for efficiency reasons < 1252966817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, we're trying to predict where enemy monsters will go < 1252966836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's better to guess wrong in a way that gives the monsters more places to move to, than one that doesn't < 1252966841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how much slowdown is caused by, say, perl? < 1252966845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering < 1252966853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why does it have to be fast? nethack is turn based < 1252966866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can be tested in a reasonable amount of time < 1252966878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1252967155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where are the tactical plans listed? < 1252967183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in a load of other modules < 1252967185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just one of them < 1252967190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252967199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, is this a tactical plan itself? < 1252967209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1252967219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Perl module, the plans are something entirely different < 1252967225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're objects of classes defined in other modules < 1252967230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's just one of them <-- was the bit that confused me < 1252967236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just one of the modules < 1252967238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1252967240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252967252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how many tactical plans are there? < 1252967291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are both tactical and strategic plans < 1252967316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls | wc -l < 1252967317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :71 < 1252967319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's plans in total < 1252967332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what sort of things are the strategic ones? < 1252967335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including a few files that are not plans in themselves, but libraries used by plans < 1252967360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://ais523.sartak.org/TAEB-AI-Planar/lib/TAEB/AI/Planar/Plan/ < 1252967364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a list of both sorts of plans < 1252967371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also why dislike levitation? < 1252967384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like SlowDescent are strategic; things like Walk are tactical < 1252967390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because lots of things can't be done while levitating < 1252967403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need to recognise that fact in order to avoid getting stuck in an infinite loop < 1252967405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, levitation is still very useful < 1252967424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, getting up from below castle < 1252967429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to fall down again < 1252967432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes... but, say you want to pick an item up < 1252967439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you /need to know/ that you can't pick up items while levitating < 1252967440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1252967443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to you that's obvious < 1252967445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a bot, you have to tell it < 1252967450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1252967468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the talking about levitating is to tell it that < 1252967513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read http://taeb-blog.sartak.org/2009/08/planar-taeb-ai.html for the explanation of how the code works < 1252968143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nethack AI has long been on the list of possible topics on the Prolog course, I think; I'm not aware of anyone attempting it, though. < 1252968216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm attempting it < 1252968220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're aware o me < 1252968221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of me < 1252968269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but on the course, I mean. < 1252968594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1252968595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1252968802 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252968966 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252970835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems Novell ported Mono to the iPhone < 1252970839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me's head explodes < 1252971295 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1252971329 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm < 1252971344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meemeemeemee < 1252971348 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that imply that one could write software for iShit without the iShit SDK? < 1252971420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls reading that Apple won't accept any app which can run another program < 1252971487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan said < 1252971493 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252971513 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the C64 emulator THAT RUNS BASIC OMG < 1252971898 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252972065 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252972073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am well-rested! < 1252972083 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I recall that too, but I thought you were implying the contrary. < 1252972089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I wasn't! < 1252972089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252972090 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess Apple's douchebaggery knows no bounds. < 1252972102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how can you sleep in a well? isn't that awfully wet? < 1252972109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1252972119 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TONIGHT! < 1252972120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aWell, well, well. What have we here. Some questions? < 1252972120 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE DINE! < 1252972122 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN WELL! < 1252972125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^a// < 1252972130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: hurf durf < 1252972161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surf the turf < 1252972243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:49:42 1> true == "true". < 1252972243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:49:42 false < 1252972243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, [116,114,117,101]=="true", and lists stringify as strings depending on if they're ascii or not < 1252972271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be nice changing [116, 114, 117, 3]'s last element to 101 and getting back "true" < 1252972281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurf durf erlang < 1252972346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:08:54 ais523, who thought such an operator was a good idea? < 1252972348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, it is < 1252972356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "default the former to the latter" < 1252972359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a good operation < 1252972367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defaults when unavailable are a Good Thing < 1252972372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and // encapsulates that < 1252972414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can call a function that prints it as a numerical list I think < 1252972427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares, that default behaviour is fucked up :) < 1252972447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which lang is that list example in? < 1252972452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erlang < 1252972457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings are lists of numbers < 1252972461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252972468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all lists with ascii printable contents stringify as strings < 1252972472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interpreter prints them in strings if it can, in numbers otherwise < 1252972473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lists stringify as strings" < 1252972480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on if they're ASCII? < 1252972482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous < 1252972483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [97,98] shows as "ab" < 1252972484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the default printing < 1252972485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1252972487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen anything like Erlang's lists-are-magically-strings in another language < 1252972492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll call it magic-typing < 1252972502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this list MAGICALLY becomes a string! < 1252972508 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't; lists and strings are the same consturct < 1252972508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, it's back again... magically < 1252972511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*construct < 1252972521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just changes how it's shown < 1252972613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:44:00 FireFly, http://www.lanstrafiken.se/template/ResePlanerareUnder____2565.aspx < 1252972625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eyes are really soothed by the colour scheme there... < 1252972625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1252972629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just really like it < 1252972637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mainly the header < 1252972657 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acrobat Reader HAR < 1252972680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah don't they know it's just Adobe Reader now??????????????????? :P < 1252972723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:35:48 Does that imply that one could write software for iShit without the iShit SDK? < 1252972723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SDK isn't shit... although what you said didn't imply that anyway < 1252972744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean objective-c/cocoa is pretty okayrad < 1252972770 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okayrad? < 1252972797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to say rad because i haven't used it for anything myself, but the general consensus is that it's rad, and what i've read seems awesome < 1252972804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm pretty sure that it's at least okay, compared to other toolkits < 1252972805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, okayrad < 1252972812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very lukewarm opinion < 1252972822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but implies... something greater... < 1252972825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1252972897 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thoughts on Obj-C are pretty meh < 1252972897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And so at 18 years of age, I moved from my tiny town of 800 people, changed my gender, moved to a new city, and tried to start a new life. I think I am failing (IAmA)." < 1252972901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got to wonder how the gender part fits in here < 1252972912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly to erase eir identity < 1252972918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...although consciously changing your *gender* has to be some new superpower I've never heard of < 1252972927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only heard of correcting your sex to match your gender :-P < 1252972991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the terms aren't that well-defined < 1252973002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gender is mental, sex is physical < 1252973025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transgender is sex/gender mismatch, transsexual is prior sex/gender mismatch corrected by sex change < 1252973047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text makes it clear it's just a mistake, but it's amusing < 1252973101 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's one definition and probably the most sensible one < 1252973130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the widely accepted one and the one all trans* (admittedly not very many) i've known have used /shrug < 1252973598 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252973600 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252973626 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1252976161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers ditching his VPS and getting a NearlyFreeSpeech.NET account... < 1252976162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advantages: Less administration overhead, way cheaper (if I had a dynamic 300MB site that uses MySQL/InnoDB and served 10 GB a month, then it's around $7.50-$8 a month after the first month ($19.07 for the first month including domain registration)... so it's pretty much dirt cheap), tech savvy, minimal bullshit, they're pretty cool, good reputation, the neat thing where they mirror your site on a bunch of servers automatically and use the less populated ones < 1252976162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disadvantages: Can't run overly-intensive processes, can't mess about with root, can't use things like FastCGI (just PHP or CGI), can't run IRC bots < 1252976173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a tough one :P < 1252976198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the administration thing is prolly a big deal though, my server's just sitting there because i haven't got it set up yet again < 1252976199 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VPS? < 1252976270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual private server; basically you get root on a Xen instance < 1252976274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like $20/mo < 1252976281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ bandwidth, storage etc < 1252976288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like a dedi, except a bit slower and way cheaper < 1252976298 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not being able to run bots would suck. < 1252976300 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pets HackEgo. < 1252976307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: true. you know what they should do? < 1252976318 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... allow you to run bots? < 1252976319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why can't you run IRC bots? < 1252976324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: shush you, < 1252976328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because it's a web hosting service < 1252976340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd use it to host software repos, some useless bloggy thing, whatever < 1252976346 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252976347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1252976353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a service thing where: < 1252976365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazon's EC2 lets you spawn VPSes for an hourly rate or whatever, and they come with OSs and stuff < 1252976365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1252976377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, except instead of spawning a VPS, you just spawn a procses < 1252976379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*process < 1252976380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's cheaper < 1252976384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still migrated across servers and shit < 1252976410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, "run this process somewhere on your servers, I don't care, just give it an internet connection, a barebones Linux and some persistent storage" < 1252976443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd just be like $ run-remote -d botinstance/ ./start irc.freenode.net 6667 < 1252976465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd tar up botinstance, send it across, run ./start with those arguments, and persist any changes in the directory ./start is in (botinstance/) < 1252976470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it could move across servers and shit automatically < 1252976485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically like nohup, except it continues running after you shut the machine down :-P < 1252976502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when it terminates you can download the final modified botinstance/) < 1252976549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be like a vps, but cheaper + way simpler < 1252976570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it'd bring more-or-less pay for what you use pricing to VPSes, which is rather difficult with a regular sort of VPS < 1252976641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, I ramble a lot < 1252976673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, the technical reason you can't run an irc bot or fastcgi or whatever is presumably that your site is served through various servers at various times depending on load < 1252976685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1252976695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and migrating processes would be a Bitch(TM), especially when for a web hosting service, IRC bots are irrelevant (they just use up resources) and FastCGI is relatively unused < 1252976708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although with heavy web frameworks getting more common, it'll be an issue for them < 1252976719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as Rails, Django etc don't play too nicely with a set-up-every-request CGI environment... < 1252976734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, static files are nice for anything I'd want to put on there, so that doesn't bother me < 1252976736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mainly the irc bot thing < 1252976742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you think of my remote-process idea up there? ↑ < 1252976760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: busy now, I'll look later < 1252977749 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CallForJudgement < 1252977813 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1252977818 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252979172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/14/145/145273.html < 1252979174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all ti signing keys factored < 1252979182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, due to a gigantic effort by the entire community, via the boinc project, we could factor keys within a week." < 1252979188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see they're putting the resources to good use! < 1252979229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I thought this was going to be a mathematical analysis of the musical keys in which Atlanta-born rapper TI can sing. I have to admit I was somewhat disappointed." < 1252979250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The keys are on Wikileak < 1252979260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as elsewhere < 1252979291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Wikileaks < 1252979344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1252979351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI won't give a shit. < 1252979442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe they do: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/9fkzd/censorship_on_reddit_yes_here_is_the_evidence/c0cl3sq < 1252979474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retards. < 1252979493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ought to get my Arch install working. < 1252980468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1252980817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is still shit, btw. < 1252981312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers seeing people agree with The UNIX Hater's Manual (iirc) about X sucking. < 1252981417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UNIX Hater's Handbook < 1252981420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uhh, no shit? < 1252981636 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-079-011.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1252982291 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1252983105 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1252984020 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃" < 1252984866 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252985216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands CESSMASTER some sewage < 1252985606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we've established it refers to ILLICIT SUBSTANCES. < 1252985671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"And once you've consumed it, it becomes EXCESS" < 1252986494 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sum jenkem < 1252986787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leroy Jenkems. < 1252987116 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1252987330 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987330 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987331 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987331 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987331 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987331 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1252987362 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987362 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-21.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987362 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987362 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987362 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252987364 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1252987881 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1252988271 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1252990363 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aug 29 12:31:30 "Monster.Dildo.Cocks.XXX.DVDrip.XviD-GraceNotes" —reddit <-- I thought this was a confusing name for a porn vid! < 1252990378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... oldest ... logreading ... ever < 1252990379 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---: I figured it out. < 1252990380 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---: It's a guy in a rooster costume handing out complimentary dildos to promote the opening of a new adult video store. < 1252990393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1252990398 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I had happened to type `quote and get < 1252990400 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 78 < 1252990401 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78| ??? Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? Or are there monster dildos and cocks? Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? < 1252990403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm infinitely confused, dude < 1252990414 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I pasted that to somebody, then the log it came from. < 1252990424 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he figured out what it actually is :P < 1252990437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: What what actually is? < 1252990457 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monster.Dildo.Cocks.XXX.DVDrip.XviD-GraceNotes < 1252990467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1252990480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out how the rooster comes in, dude. < 1252990483 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMG TORRENT PLZ < 1252990487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monster < 1252990496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: It's on scene FTP, bitch. < 1252990497 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... COCK < 1252990497 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fucking cock. < 1252990506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh. < 1252990507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1252990526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That still doesn't explain Monster. :P < 1252990549 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the dildos are monster. < 1252990571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, shaped like the penis of a monster? < 1252990574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "monster"! < 1252990581 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define monster < 1252990582 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* an imaginary creature usually having various human and animal parts \ * giant: someone or something that is abnormally large and powerful \ * freak: a person or animal that is markedly unusual or deformed < 1252990588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMAGINARY < 1252990592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this whole story is... < 1252990595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a... a FABRICATION < 1252990600 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOES < 1252990610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1252990623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, to solve the mystery: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9fc4n/i_was_in_a_major_mp3_releasing_group_in_the/c0cjyyj?context=1 < 1252990954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: how much do I need to bribe you to rant about how much my remote process thingy idea sucks? < 1252990973 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends, how much does it suck? < 1252990974 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1252990977 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, I recall. < 1252990989 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually an interesting idea, I was considering implementing it modulo the fact that I don't have the resources. < 1252991006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you need to pay more to get criticism :D < 1252991027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252991029 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252991029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1252991038 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1252991041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am clumsy < 1252991054 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You keep falling ... out of the channel? < 1252991063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a trap door in the corner. < 1252991102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1252991104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1252991104 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1252991107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you know your duty < 1252991110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push the ` into the ^ < 1252991113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1252991113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there will no longer be a trapdoor < 1252991123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose-^ ` < 1252991124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1252991133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/-/ / < 1252991276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I wish more things had Compose. < 1252991286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should set it up, but OTOH I could just get Arch woring. < 1252991352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Arch works; X11 doesn't. < 1252991368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what ehird is doing online at 5am < 1252991382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could ask the same of you < 1252991391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm on holiday < 1252991397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but IIRC, school's started already < 1252991400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and your logic :P < 1252991584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why there isn't a flipped-` character < 1252991595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we could have better ``dumb quotes[INVALID][INVALID] < 1252991638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is annoyed at not being able to use control-click for autoscroll < 1252991652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1252991657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mousewheel has started acting up, so I can't really use it for middle-clicking very easily < 1252991664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've been control-clicking links to open them in new tabs < 1252991679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately, the same substitution doesn't work on autoscroll < 1252991686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmodmap or sth < 1252991693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have Firefox set to paste on middle-click for textboxes, scroll on middle-click for everything else) < 1252991697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you really need to replace that computer... < 1252991710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken touchpad, associated mouse has broken button... :D < 1252991714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... is it possible to map mouse buttons-modifier combinations to other mouse buttons? < 1252991720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm pretty sure < 1252991721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not completely broken, just intermittent < 1252991732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst-case, just catch Ctrl-click in a daemon < 1252991737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and send a middle click event < 1252991775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this is the third mouse I've been on < 1252991784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one broke, the first one was wireless and used up too much battery power < 1252991796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc the touchpad didn't work for more than about a minute < 1252991824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: remember how you were incredulous at people paying more than a few hundred pounds for a computer? < 1252991830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so they don't have to deal with that shit. < 1252991833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still am < 1252991844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, despite all your claims, this computer still works sufficiently well for me to not really consider changing < 1252991856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is that the components break < 1252991859 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1252991872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't say that when the keyboard breaks beacuse of the same shoddy engineering to cut costs < 1252991877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*because < 1252991911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: on my first computer (a BBC Micro B), neither the Y or B key worked < 1252991914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I worked around it < 1252991921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by redefining a couple of the function keys < 1252991933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and surely you are not surprised that other, more sane people would consider it a better solution to buy a new one? < 1252991947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it cost about £20, it was junk someone else was throwing out < 1252991952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really expect it to work well < 1252991959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you are using an invalid example. < 1252991995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I buy, e.g. a cheap Dell laptop, I expect it to be a bit of a pain to get working, not have very good components, and break sooner than a more expensive alternative < 1252992012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I buy, e.g. a ThinkPad, I expect it to work fine, have good components, last longer and cost several times more < 1252992017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a tradeoff < 1252992021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently sooner that the more expensive one lasts longer on average? < 1252992027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely < 1252992032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkpads last like 10 yaers < 1252992035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*years < 1252992037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect people like you to upgrade often enough that you'd be upgrading before it broke, anyway < 1252992046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, could you cope with a computer that was top of the range 10 years ago? < 1252992048 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1252992060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, but the point is that something that totally breaks later on, < 1252992064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will likely get defects a lot sooner < 1252992083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, things like input devices are very important, for obvious reasons < 1252992107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lower-end hardware has a tendency to... disagree... < 1252992112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with each other) < 1252992177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that it's understandable paying £800 for a sturdy, lightweight ThinkPad with long battery life, a good screen, an exceptional keyboard, the nub mouse, high-quality hardware and good compatibility, vs paying £300 for a low-end Dell < 1252992179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still amused that it came with a Windows XP manual < 1252992181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite running Linux < 1252992196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the battery life is about 10 minutes on here < 1252992198 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1252992201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't mind fiddling a whole bunch, don't mind being inconvenienced at all and are on a tight budget, of course the Dell is superior < 1252992203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise... < 1252992225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad that it's fast at hibernating < 1252992249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to close a notebook's lid and pick it up immediately afterwards imo < 1252992267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the suspend modes you get in linux are wrong < 1252992277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, I don't like the chance of the hard drive being knocked < 1252992287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see, the high-end notebooks have shock protection on the harddrive < 1252992287 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as opposed to? < 1252992291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that automatically parks the head < 1252992301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I know, and it even works on Linux as of a few months ago < 1252992311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It should first go to an ultra-low-power mode, solely to suspend to disk, and then it suspends to RAM < 1252992325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that it turns off immediately, instead of taking a second or two to suspend to anything < 1252992326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I don't trust it to work in, say, the middle of a distro upgrade < 1252992336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're suspending in the middle of a distro upgrade? < 1252992338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tip: don't < 1252992344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I had to once < 1252992349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not suspending exactly < 1252992358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the screen permablanked due to a bug < 1252992364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware bug, I think < 1252992368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that? < 1252992374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in the end, I had to REISUB it, in the middle of the upgrade < 1252992377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another issue with the hardware :-P < 1252992382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :credit to Debian and possibly Ubuntu that it still worked afterwards < 1252992396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I had to finish off the upgrade by giving the required apt commands at the command prompt < 1252992401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+SysRq+stuff doesn't always work :( < 1252992411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the computer was still responding fine < 1252992420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant for me < 1252992424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason I did it directly to the kernel is that the GUI would never have let me abort a distro upgrade < 1252992460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, if X isn't recognizing your keyboard and mouse, and it's frozen, then you can't do anything with them < 1252992487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds reasonable < 1252992497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is SysRq handled at the X level, or the kernel level? < 1252992497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying, though < 1252992501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kernel, of course < 1252992502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel < 1252992507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but X steals the keyboard, I guess < 1252992511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1252992512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then fails to do anything with it < 1252992525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SysRq was originally invented so that brand-new multitasking operating systems had some way to tell them to switch processes < 1252992536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that none of the other keys would conflict with existing programs < 1252992547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, people didn't use it, and invented alt-tab and so on instead < 1252992556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and control-alt-delete, of course) < 1252992586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to think control-alt-delete was originally security through obscurity (you could explain it to someone over the phone, but there's no chance they'd think of it by themselves, was the idea) < 1252992760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doo doo. < 1252992764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, really? < 1252992774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it for at the time? < 1252992784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: rebooting < 1252992789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people weren't supposed to know that < 1252992792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1252992802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to keep techies employed? < 1252992805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1252992810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because they'd lose their data if they tried it < 1252992823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and companies nearly always misjudge the technical competence of their users one way or another < 1252992960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me wonders why the inscrutable alt+unicode from windows and opt+{semi-random key/prefix} [key] caught on and compose prefix key didn't < 1252992978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Compose ' e makes more sense than Option-e e. < 1252992987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs uses C-x 8 for compose < 1252992992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is easy and predictable, yet a pain to type < 1252992997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, once you know about the C-x 8 < 1252993009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, interestingly, Word has its own compose mechanisms < 1252993020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Control-' e is é < 1252993026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder what you use for ˝ with standard compose < 1252993030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite control-alt-e being e in most of the rest of Windows < 1252993040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Option+j o to make ő here < 1252993054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know how X11 Compose analogises double characters < 1252993059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION peeks at the file < 1252993092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's ˝ called? < 1252993106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the hungarian double-acute? < 1252993109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a tilde? < 1252993112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :former < 1252993114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look the same at this font size < 1252993119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know < 1252993120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the erdos accent < 1252993189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double-acute, apparently < 1252993189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1252993205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : "Ր" U0150 # LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH DOUBLE ACUTE < 1252993212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so =, which makes no sense < 1252993218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, compose is never any _worse_ than option < 1252993257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Compose / o makes far more sense than devoting Option+o to ø < 1252993268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, Option+q is œ < 1252993270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what? < 1252993278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose o e only makes about, oh, ten times more sense < 1252993361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses proper characters < 1252993384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⌥q is œ, ⎄ o e is œ < 1252993391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to type a composed oe with this keyboard mapping at all < 1252993397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although æ is altgr-a < 1252993407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the OS X system, then < 1252993415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is better than windows but worse than compose < 1252993430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :altgr-punctuation mostly composes the punctuation < 1252993444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, with a random and weird key assignment, rather than the logical one < 1252993452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. altgr-; composes a ' < 1252993487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1252993502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :é = ⌥e e < 1252993516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ´'s mostly used in é in english, i guess < 1252993555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and acute's the most common accent for an e altogether, I think < 1252993565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1252993568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless < 1252993568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless < 1252993573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preëmptive < 1252993576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOW BITCH :| < 1252993605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because hardly anyone writes it like that < 1252993611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1252993638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's correct < 1252993662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that a while back, I was talking how it's almost impossible to connect to most IRC networks without deviating from the relevant standards < 1252993665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, you'd use the wrong port < 1252993685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :de jure standards are useless < 1252993700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc rfcs spec a protocol that happens to have the same name :) < 1252993782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9kjaf/i_am_an_exextreme_programmer_i_did_it_for_6_years/ ;; weirdest definition of extreme programming ever < 1252993790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gahahahahahaha < 1252994062 0 :notostraca!n=notostra@76-217-25-157.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1252994068 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1252994106 0 :notostraca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1252994154 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now possesses +1 NICK OF AWESOME < 1252994163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got it dropped? < 1252994174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :gr < 1252994178 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeedidoo. < 1252994183 0 :gr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM GREGOR R < 1252994194 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm Spartacus. < 1252994195 0 :gr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last seen 11 weeks ago! < 1252994202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My surname is not Hurd. < 1252994204 0 :gr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if that's droppable. < 1252994212 0 :gr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can extort Gregor for it. < 1252994214 0 :gr!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :e < 1252994228 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want "gr" < 1252994229 0 :e!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Las seen 4 weeks ago! < 1252994231 0 :e!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1252994231 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite happy with "Gregor" < 1252994232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*last < 1252994235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day I shall have the nick e. < 1252994249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Last, actually < 1252994634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/6NO0J.png < 1252994638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION disappears in a puff of logic < 1252995515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1252997632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... there isn't much good CSS support in text mode browsers < 1252997644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even elinks fails at any sort of layout or indeed anything beyond colours < 1252998137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I haven't seen anything like Erlang's lists-are-magically-strings in another language <-- char* in C? Also yeah it is just about how io:format() prints it given the ~w or ~p format. You can force print it as a list or as a string in either case < 1252998155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char * isn't a string and it doesn't display as a string. < 1252998166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write it out as bytes if you call functions specifically for that purpose. < 1252998176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is not "a string", and there is no stringification in C. < 1252998362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed. This is same. io:format's ~p format writes it out as a string if it seems to make sense < 1252998372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. This is not the same hting at all. < 1252998372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ~p is what the REPL uses < 1252998374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1252998382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char* doesn't intrinsically display as anything < 1252998385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is still a list internally, like char* idoesn't change < 1252998387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is the inspected, human-readable output of a REPL, one is dumping bytes. < 1252998398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use %s to print it string-style, but ofc that's not the only way to print it < 1252998404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comparing them is either purposeful folly or astounding denseness. < 1252998405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, there is no "intrinsically" here either, except using the format ~p (or ~w) < 1252998415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which tries to autoformat them in a nice way < 1252998415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, which is THE STANDARD WAY TO INSPECT AN OBJECT. < 1252998425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is USED by the REPL. < 1252998436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can use ~s to force one to be printed as a string for example < 1252998456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a REPL printing ASCII-like things as strings might be useful; I know gdb always tries to print char* as a string, for instance < 1252998461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :escaping nonprintables < 1252998472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when those things are regular integer lists < 1252998475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about char* not being stringy hm, check how gdb shows them < 1252998479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the standard way there < 1252998481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least indistinguishable from them < 1252998483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows it as a string < 1252998488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of escapes in < 1252998497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it isn't "string-y" < 1252998499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1252998505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm really not interested in talking to you about this, any more than I am to a brick wall < 1252998525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gprolog's weird, in that 'this is a string' and "this is an integer list taking the ASCII values of the relevant characters" < 1252998529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're two different concepts < 1252998536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok THAT is weird < 1252998546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not weird at all. < 1252998551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'foo' is not a string. < 1252998553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an atom. < 1252998554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an intlist-string casting function < 1252998556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Lisp's 'foo. < 1252998563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, atoms and strings are indistinguishable in Prolog < 1252998564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"foo" is a string. < 1252998568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know the terms differ, < 1252998578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas an intlist is something quite different < 1252998579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm using standard terms to clarify what they *are*. < 1252998583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1252998589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the string-manipulation functions work on atoms < 1252998600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, gprolog has a limit to the number of atoms a program can use < 1252998606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suppose you need lists for TCness < 1252998641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, old Lisps used |ATOMS TO PRINT OUT TEXT TOO|. < 1252998673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's mind is bludgeoned with the most awesome idea ever < 1252998674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway the point is that erlang's ~p format (which is used by REPL indeed) will try to print anything in a nice way. This means it will even try to indent nicely if it goes multi-line for a tuple or such. And it tries to print lists that seems string-like (only printable chars and newline, plus possibly some other ones) as strings, while if it is not string like, it prints it like a [1,2,3] st < 1252998674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yle list. < 1252998680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: At least SWI-Prolog mixes in a third thing, which is a separate "string" data type; you can tell it to read doublequotes as strings instead of lists of integers, or to read `foo` as string, and there's atom_to_string and such what you'd expect. < 1252998680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a decentralised purely functional package manager. < 1252998686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, come to think of it, intlists don't need string-manipulation primitives < 1252998687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This must be what a hangover feels like. < 1252998690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except intellectual. < 1252998693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok, that is a great idea < 1252998713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: most versions of Prolog let you customize what the various quoting styles mean < 1252998714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice idea < 1252998718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my guess is, it isn't particularly standardised < 1252998731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're all doing it like that for compatibility < 1252998744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latest packages direct from the source! A web of trust! Perfectly trustable rollbacks, upgrades! Great dependency handling! Automatic upgrades (with bad upgrades flagged by the web of trust, I guess)! < 1252998771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to live-run updates without upgrading < 1252998779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, run updates without installing them, live-CD style < 1252998780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sure, that's easy. < 1252998784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1252998793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, web of trust? Hm... < 1252998799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting idea < 1252998818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to add the capability-security-hacked-up-by-using-a-separate-account-for-each-program, but that'd be (a) slow for short-running command line programs and (b) a bit too hacky and revolutionary to work without a bunch of futzing. < 1252998835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a bit hard for someone knowing no one using the system to get into though < 1252998847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the unmodified idea on its own is almost enough to turn into zzo and make my own distribution for. < 1252998869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, that's true; and I just realised that relying on it to flag good/bad updates is trying to make trustability technological, which as SSL demonstrates doesn't work. < 1252998873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And speaking of strings, still; Matlab does strings as vectors of small integers. But it does use the "char" element-data-type for those vectors, and then determines whether to print as string or as vector based on that. < 1252998885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can sneak a hole into Debian anyway, so it's not like it's any worse. < 1252998906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Windows/OS X users rarely upgrade to find a hole, at least I've never really heard of it happening to decent sotware < 1252998914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, hole = malicious program) < 1252998934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it would be quite a pain to maintain for the distro maintainer, it seems likely that for large such webs of trust the trusted upgrades may diverge, and take a long time to reach everyone < 1252998948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and there was that attempt to sneak a trojan into the kernel which was noticed < 1252998950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The distro maintainer wouldn't do packages. < 1252998952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1252998954 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1252998959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be kind of, err..., bad for critical security upgrades < 1252998965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said decentralised: software from the source. If you want a patched version, get it from the patcher. < 1252998966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think: vmsplice() < 1252998973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah hm < 1252998980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the distro owners package stuff that the owners don't, get it from there. < 1252998991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone would still have to make some kind of package-y thing for the system < 1252998991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Package search: google or something :P < 1252998996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What do you mean? < 1252999012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there'd be a package format, there just wouldn't be a single location. < 1252999026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd identify packages with a URI. < 1252999033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, but who would make the packages for, say, kernel, libc and so on? < 1252999045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't expect upstream devs to do so I assume? < 1252999052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously the distro maintainers (unless Linus suddenly starts building packages). < 1252999063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1252999071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just as you find debian/ directories in downloaded source packages, and sometimes generic linux binaries, I'd expect some upstreams to, yes. < 1252999075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it took off, that is. < 1252999085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's no point fighting to get into a non-existent repository if you can just put up the file. < 1252999100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1252999111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would this be a binary or source based distro? < 1252999145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the way to do it would be to consider a binary a cached version of (buildPkg foo), if you see what I mean. < 1252999147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, both I guess. < 1252999152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how would the web of trust updates be shared? Some sort of p2p? < 1252999164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I dropped the web of trust idea; I don't think it helps. < 1252999167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But via HTTP or whatever, obviously. < 1252999176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, from a central location? :/ < 1252999180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1252999196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, signing is useful for *installing* packages. < 1252999199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and upgrading < 1252999204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to authenticate it's a certain person, but < 1252999215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to authenticate that the updates you get come from the same person as the first version you installed < 1252999217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and nothing more) < 1252999229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah good, so everyone would have to poke holes in their firewalls, and the whole thing would be a pain for mobile users? < 1252999231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way to sneak a bad upgrade in, you'd need their GPG key + password < 1252999242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mobile here = not same location all the time < 1252999247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rather than "cell phone") < 1252999249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Firstly, there are certain things known as hosting services. Secondly, shut the fuck up, I dropped the idea. < 1252999261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web of trust could be done in a similar way to PGP key servers. < 1252999268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not useful, so I dropped it. < 1252999269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that makes sense < 1252999278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what is distributed about it? < 1252999286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klgjsdfklgsdfjklgseior6gjusw90000hjgns what? < 1252999289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what < 1252999292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the package manager < 1252999300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...because there is no package repository... < 1252999303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1252999316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't pull from peers any longer < 1252999317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1252999337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the web of trust could be useful maybe, but only as a guideline. < 1252999351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, next to a person's name, a smiley face :) if they're considered trustable by people you trust, etc. < 1252999356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, that'll fail because people are lazy. < 1252999366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I wouldn't bother marking people. < 1252999409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm just considering that if you needs to connect to peers it would be hard to use for people like ais and me who are university are behind NAT with their laptops. And a lot of people don't run their systems 24h. < 1252999416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.................................. < 1252999423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with central servers it would work better < 1252999427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you ignore me when I say I dropped the web of trust idea? Are you trying to be annoying? < 1252999431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no central servers in my design either. < 1252999436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hosting < 1252999458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you've entirely mixed up web of trust vs package sites. < 1252999468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dropped the web of trust crap. Okay? < 1252999468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just explaining my reasoning against it. I wasn't bugging you about it. < 1252999483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fine, you were just talking to me so I assumed so, quite obviously... < 1252999491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1252999501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how expensive creating a user/group is on linux? < 1252999517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very, I don't think < 1252999527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although /etc/passwd probably uses a linear search by default < 1252999528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm aren't there a limited number of UIDs/GIDs? < 1252999535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, 65535 < 1252999545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, think it does yes, since there is no requirement that it is ordered. < 1252999558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can sort it using pwck -s < 1252999562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or grpck -s) < 1252999563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there are library functions for reading /etc/passwd < 1252999571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1252999573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How many seconds to create a functional user/group in C code? < 1252999573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're supposed to use those rather than reading the file < 1252999581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for all I know, they keep a hashed btree of the things in memory < 1252999586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you can bump that up to 2^32 or so nowadays; you can for pids. < 1252999591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well under 1, I expect < 1252999594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could make the users one-time, but that's less ... dynamic. < 1252999598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 0.0x? 0.00x? < 1252999615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C.f. Documentation/highuid.txt in your kernel docs. < 1252999615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh you mean creating on the fly like Gregor did in EgoBot? < 1252999620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah. < 1252999623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For each process. < 1252999624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know < 1252999638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not expensive iirc, it is just changing uid to some high reserved number < 1252999639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could benchmark and find out, I suppose < 1252999654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no I can't, I don't have X11 working on Arch < 1252999662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need X11? < 1252999670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, damn you beat me to it < 1252999687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, need to shower, bbiab < 1252999719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To have an environment comfortable enough to be worth rebooting into? < 1252999743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I didn't realise you needed a reboot < 1252999749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I kinda want a decent web browser and some hawt terminal multiplexing action. < 1252999750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you still had infinity VMs lying around < 1252999764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's not going to give an accurate benchmark result... < 1252999774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be close, surely? < 1252999776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 didn't work in the VM either, heh. < 1252999780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you run on CPU time inside the simulation < 1252999791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I actually don't have one, so. < 1252999793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, virtualisation < 1252999836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there isn't a non-X graphical server that can speak the X protocol. < 1252999840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, one that doesn't suck. < 1252999883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any non-dead forks of X with any momentum? < 1252999893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean fork. < 1252999896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yes, Xorg. < 1252999905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forked from XFree86, which is probably a fork itself. < 1252999914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, more than one < 1252999931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we do have X-compatible experimental graphical servers, but come on. We should have started working on this shit in, like, the late 90s. < 1252999988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Its native protocol should just be a slightly cleaned up, perhaps faster and non-networked (use X11) version of the X protocol; anything too different makes X software feel like emulated legacy software, which would defeat the point.) < 1253000024 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253000095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's X11.app, which is maybe non-dead, but I guess you can't really count that. < 1253000107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Xquartz < 1253000143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One disadvantage of this system is that the canonical names of things are gonna be like /pkg/coreutils/7.6/bin/ls, and perhaps even more verbose due to "coreutils" being a name whereas we work with URIs. < 1253000153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to think about how to make the real paths more lean. < 1253000222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XFast seems a bit dead; no SVN changes since 2008-08. < 1253000260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew, built-in WM. < 1253000394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's that WeirdX Java server thing, from the Jsch people -- at http://www.jcraft.com/weirdx/ -- but I'm not very certain that's alive either. < 1253000674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1253000707 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253000793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it'd actually be more like /home/ehird/.pkg/coreutils/7.6/bin/ls, which is even worse. < 1253001115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/ehird/.pkg/http/org/gnu/coreutils/7.6/bin/ls maybe < 1253001135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At that point I'd just use the actual URI - < 1253001145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, just in directory structure form < 1253001171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/ehird/.pkg/http/ftp.gnu.org/gnu/coreutils/7.6/bin/ls < 1253001179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually, probably more like < 1253001182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ftp.gnu.org? < 1253001186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253001187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/coreutils/ < 1253001192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd actually be: < 1253001207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come off it GNU, that's just a ridiculous URL < 1253001210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/ehird/.pkg/http/ftp.gnu.org/gnu/coreutils/coreutils-7.6-packagemanagernamething/bin/ls < 1253001215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's very common < 1253001221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp., as a subdomain, means "download repository" < 1253001231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be both common /and/ ridiculous, IMO < 1253001236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1253001239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like misHungarian notation < 1253001246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, /home/ehird/.pkg/http/ftp.gnu.org/gnu/coreutils/coreutils-7.6-packagemanagernamething/bin/ls of course assumes that GNU would make their own packages, which I doubt. < 1253001287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more likely to be /home/ehird/.pkg/http/packages.awesome-linux.org/coreutils/7.6/bin/ls < 1253001303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, maek that < 1253001304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*make < 1253001311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more likely to be /home/ehird/.pkg/http/packages.awesome-linux.org/coreutils/7.6.xyz/bin/ls < 1253001316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where .xyz is the file extension < 1253001333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, the URL for the package description file would be http://packages.awesome-linux.org/coreutils/7.6.xyz. < 1253001353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The files themselves would likely be in http:/packages.awesome-linux.org/coreutils/7.6.tar.bz2 or something, but that doesn't matter. < 1253001357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*The files themselves would likely be in http://packages.awesome-linux.org/coreutils/7.6.tar.bz2 or something, but that doesn't matter. < 1253001360 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253001369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can ie be made to lie it's ff < 1253001376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is that just a random thought < 1253001377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1253001382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE allows extensions, after all < 1253001383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have you found the weirdest website ever < 1253001393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how much control they have over the browser's behaviour < 1253001400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: say the website renders fine in IE8 and Firefox < 1253001407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has hacks for IE6 that actually make it look worse in IE8 < 1253001409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has IE8 doesn't he < 1253001414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't checking the browser version number < 1253001419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm < 1253001421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems plausible to me < 1253001421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mixed up your numbers < 1253001425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253001425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1253001428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1253001430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just worded it badly < 1253001431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the perfect browser apart from the fact every fucking unix retard just puts a YOU SHOULD USE FF I LIKE IT BETTAH <3 message on their page < 1253001434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, would render fine without the hacks < 1253001445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most firefox advocates aren't unix users < 1253001457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, i was going to help you before you got all vitrolically hateful at me and my kin <3 < 1253001469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not even the case that all unix users advocate firefox < 1253001476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sorry, but it's rather annoying to get that message every day. < 1253001479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it for the extensions, but I think that, say, Epiphany has a better design < 1253001483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it needs a bit of polish < 1253001484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to be fair, he said fucking unix retards < 1253001495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use it for the articles. < 1253001503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fucking unix retards" isn't all that hateful :P < 1253001509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps all mentally handicapped unix users currently having sexual intercourse do put such messages on their page < 1253001531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes let's say that's what i meant. < 1253001534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you could just download a better browser. < 1253001556 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i could try opera < 1253001563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose < 1253001563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, Opera's fine. < 1253001581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_Explorer_extensions < 1253001586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fights instinct to slap AfD tag on it < 1253001594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1253001599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253001600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253001600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: look at it < 1253001605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a list of third-party toolbars < 1253001605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253001609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1253001610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think the Operaans somehow project a much more evangelical view of themselves. < 1253001620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, that's why I was amused :) < 1253001625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't really feel like switching browsers just because some people think ie sucks < 1253001626 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do? < 1253001628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all people except me < 1253001629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all Opera users want to tell you about how they love Opera < 1253001630 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253001630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing there gives the article a reason for existence, and I suspect it's NPOV < 1253001632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya < 1253001633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1253001636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the browsers are raelly much worse < 1253001638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really < 1253001640 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I really looooooooove opera < 1253001642 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch to it < 1253001643 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW < 1253001648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's basically a page for people to spam on < 1253001648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: except, one problem < 1253001651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opera is fucking shit < 1253001661 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I like it, but I'm fine if others don't < 1253001664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... opera comes up with all the great UI innovations < 1253001666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it was good, it's not good enough to justify using non-free software with a rendering engine that nothing else uses < 1253001667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first < 1253001673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then other browsers steal them and do them better < 1253001674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, but opera's UI is pretty bad < 1253001680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, it's a paradox < 1253001680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just add everything and everyone else cherry-picks the good parts < 1253001693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera is the Slash'EM of browsers? < 1253001740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how opera's toolbar has the useless rewind/fast forward buttons, it's such a perfect example of its creeping featuritis (opera users: I know you use it. I know you use every feature. You do this so you can defend it. :P) < 1253001766 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the fast-forward feature, but I've removed the button for it < 1253001778 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you saw my UI a while ago, didn't you? < 1253001785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although I've forgotten. < 1253001792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast-forward? < 1253001803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like, guesses which page you plan to go to next and takes you there < 1253001804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "keep pressing forwards until the domain changes" < 1253001809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewind: the reverse < 1253001814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1253001815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's useless < 1253001820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely useless < 1253001822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like my version better < 1253001824 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fast-forward usually works well < 1253001834 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For getting to the next page of stuff < 1253001840 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as webcomics < 1253001849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1253001855 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask me < 1253001858 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't develop it < 1253001859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only works if you have pages in the forward history... < 1253001862 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to? < 1253001864 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No* < 1253001870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they changed it < 1253001874 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I've read, it looks for links matching certain patterns < 1253001883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it /does/ do what I said < 1253001904 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, only if you don't have anything more forwardy in the history < 1253001908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do these people keep sending me forms as Word documents with rows of dots to write on? < 1253001913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htf am I supposed to reply to that? < 1253001920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been replacing the dots with my answer, and underlining it < 1253001928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to look sort-of like I was writing on the line < 1253001929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: print out < 1253001937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then how could I email it back? < 1253001952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the time I could find a scanner, I could physically go to them and talk to them face to face < 1253001954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "intelligent 'next whatever in sequence'" thing certainly isn't new now; there was babble about it when it was introduced. < 1253001957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... there's a wooden table here < 1253001961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I could find a camera < 1253002013 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it's new, ehird said it's not useful < 1253002030 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, he found it unuseful < 1253002032 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1253002048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it never even did anything other than what seemed to be the domain thing, yep < 1253002059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the framebuffer X server? < 1253002075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean that if they changed from "only does domain-jumping for history-browsing" (which really sounds useless to me) to "also selects the 'next' link", they didn't do it especially recently. < 1253002077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: plz paste context next time. and it'll be slow. < 1253002098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a couple of firefox extensions that try to do the same thing, haven't tried them out. < 1253002130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about arch linux < 1253002133 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I agree on that, I can't remember fast-forward doing anything else < 1253002173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what about it? < 1253002199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said you couldn't get X working under it? < 1253002210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was suggesting that you try the framebuffer X server < 1253002215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253002218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd prefer to fix actual x. < 1253002225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1253002260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how slow XDirectFB would be; possibly not completely useless (based on the hype, again). fbdev + vesafb is not really a winning combination, though. < 1253002276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where "fbdev" refers to the X.org fbdev driver.) < 1253002297 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253002327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fbdev? < 1253002329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm ok < 1253002342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X complains it can't find that at startup, but goes on anyway. Installing it changes nothing apart from removing that. < 1253002351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CBA to fuck around with making an xorg.conf < 1253002365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you make hal and dbus start then? < 1253002375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hal, yes. doesn't hal start dbus? < 1253002376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe arch changed to devicekit thingy < 1253002377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1253002384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't remember < 1253002387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would assume so < 1253002390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think dbus was in the list too < 1253002401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253002408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither radeonhd nor ati work < 1253002412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba to try aur fglrx < 1253002439 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch < 1253002439 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATI and Linux < 1253002459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATI have Linux binary drivers packaged with the graphics card nowadays, on CDs < 1253002466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fglrx. < 1253002468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is of course nearly useless in most scenarios where you'd want them < 1253002472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Works fine on Ubuntu, Debian, ... < 1253002481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: The fault lies squarely with Arch. < 1253002483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's quite some ... < 1253002488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given how similar Ubuntu and Debian are < 1253002490 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running Kubuntu, and I've sure had some crashes here and there < 1253002491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cba to think of more < 1253002501 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1253002503 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X crashes < 1253002635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1253002654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the vesa driver? < 1253002682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked first time i think. but wrong resolution. also i want the proper drivers. also keyboard and mouse didn't work then < 1253002713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, keyboard and mouse would be different drivers. Did you get those to work under anything else? < 1253002718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(other driver I mean) < 1253002741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed them, but I can't test them. < 1253002750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0010]? < 1253002762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253002771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1253002774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253002775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0010]I installed them, but I can't test them. < 1253002778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what you said here < 1253002781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say that < 1253002782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was a box < 1253002796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:19:01 I installed them, but I can't test them. < 1253002797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog < 1253002797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how this thing shows "not in font" < 1253002807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes the [0010] is there in your paste too < 1253002811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some control code there < 1253002813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it in od < 1253002814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1253002818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a hex editor < 1253002824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba < 1253002835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it was there. :P < 1253003216 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253003324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in TAEB what is a "TME chain"? < 1253003337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set of TMEs that point to each other until they reach the root TME < 1253003344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, what is a TME then < 1253003346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it extracts routes from the routing map < 1253003349 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253003353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a TME is a Tactical Map Entry < 1253003355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1253003356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253003358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it represents one movement < 1253003368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a particular location, at a particular time < 1253003373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I found that, just didn't saw it mentioned with TME in the same place < 1253003382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the name* < 1253003550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does TAEB track info about currently out of sight monsters? Like, it just went up stairs and below there is a black dragon next to the stairs, it will calculate with that if it decides to go down again? < 1253003559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't < 1253003564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, even on same level, in a throne room or such < 1253003566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a major deficiency in the framework as-is < 1253003583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since those aren't likely to move around if they are sleeping < 1253003587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same for zoo for example) < 1253003609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it has pre-made maps for fixed levels that don't change? Such as valley of dead, the castle and such < 1253003620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1253003623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are Sokoban spoilers < 1253003647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and for the mines it would be useful too, spotting what type of mines end based on layout around the stairs and such < 1253003658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1253003661 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253003668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not a high priority right now; submit framework patches if you're interested < 1253003676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's perl :( < 1253003816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253003821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # We hates nymphs <-- who doesn't? < 1253003832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does TAEB do if it finds a scroll of genocide? < 1253003838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it isn't cursed that is < 1253003839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, it's a framework < 1253003845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and TAEB::AI::Planar doesn't mess with scrolls yet < 1253003846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, what does Planar do then < 1253003848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253003902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have been thinking about that myself, one one hand it is better to save it, until you run into a bad monster (since you can't know which one you will run into first), on the other hand, messages like "one of your scrolls of genocide catch fire" really sucks < 1253003922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?oGeno isn't amazingly useful < 1253003936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think you're approaching the problem of NetHack AIs from the wrong direction entirely < 1253003948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you need the simple stuff working before you mess with specific items < 1253003951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure is when you run into a master lich, or master mind flayer < 1253003960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well of course < 1253003962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you burn an Elbereth < 1253003974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even dust one, if you have enough notice < 1253003995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, dust ones get messed out though easily < 1253004003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write more than once < 1253004010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1253004017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots have no trouble stacking up 30 Elbereths on a square, they don't run out of patience < 1253004025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh ok < 1253004031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it knows about the E word? < 1253004051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1253004054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw, does write in the dust work on ice? < 1253004056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes for some purposes, not for others < 1253004060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, you write in the frost < 1253004065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253004081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get frost on ice usually, snow maybe, but not frost < 1253004290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl going to uni < 1253004631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i win because i already am at uni < 1253004702 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253004711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:uni == en:dream, the abbreviation, especially uncapitalized, always makes me smile. < 1253004756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time i see it i dance a little < 1253004798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should back up the IMAP folders for the school account before some overzealous administrator goes and wipes them out, even though I'm still employed there and all. < 1253004847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :employ the convoy < 1253004900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'd work on that package manager, but I'd have to make packages < 1253004904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that'd be tedious < 1253004960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Demuxer info Name changed to Summertime18%"; stared at that for a bit thinking "funny name", but the 18% was just leftovers from I guess mplayer's cache-fill-percentage or something. < 1253005561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253006284 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253006542 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1253006793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.garfieldasgarfield.com/ < 1253007479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kecy.roumen.cz/roumingShow.php?file=cat_found.jpg < 1253007829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1253007852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's not even the first i've seen of that type, so that one is probably a copycat made just to photo it < 1253007858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one i saw was black and white < 1253007871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have seen many such as well. < 1253007879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also seen your link two months ago. < 1253007932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fuck you :P < 1253009173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/MiffTheFox/aspnet.png < 1253009418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://healthbase.netbase.com/#Nazis&Pros < 1253009943 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253011308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd give up getting Arch to work, except the alternative is Debian and I want something that isn't 80% modified code... < 1253011318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly I haven't done anything but whine, but. < 1253011320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :D < 1253011792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea if it is defined which sort of buffering will be used by something just fopen()ed? < 1253011806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1253011809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't remember where < 1253011811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in C99 < 1253011816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, probably POSIX < 1253011822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't find it in man page at least < 1253011844 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When opened, a stream is fully buffered if and only if it can be deter‐ < 1253011845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mined not to refer to an interactive device." < 1253011855 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- FOPEN(3P) < 1253011923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253011932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what package provides 3p on ubuntu? < 1253011959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at ais523  < 1253011970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why arch has a bunch of dependencies on packages it doesn't need... seems to want to cruft up a system :) < 1253011972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, I don't have it < 1253012086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manpages-posix-dev. < 1253012102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's where fopen.3posix.gz is. < 1253012179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah thanks < 1253012197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the arcane apt-foo command to find that? < 1253012214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dpkg that tells you where something is < 1253012216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not apt < 1253012252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just used packages.ubuntu.com; I actually doubt there's a list of files available locally for not-installed packages. < 1253012272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, this is an OS X system I'm using here. < 1253012281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah ok < 1253012285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, the list's only for already-existing packages < 1253012292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, already-installed < 1253012317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt isn't arcane. < 1253012340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, "dpkg-query -S /path/to/file" generally tells you which package was reponsible for installing a file. Doesn't help when you haven't got the file you're looking for. < 1253012349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache is to query the cached package database, apt-get is to perform changing actions on packages < 1253012356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the installed package set, anyway < 1253012392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dpkg tells you about things that are independent of repos < 1253012394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so apt-cache search searches the cached package database, apt-get remove removes a package from the installed set. < 1253012418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache show shows the information of a package in the cached package database, etc < 1253012425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache: tell me about the repo; apt-get: do something that makes changes using the repo; dpkg: do something that doesn't care about the repo < 1253012433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're agreeing < 1253012441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1253012467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that apt is really good for a centralised package manager, so it annoys me when people complain about it... < 1253012492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% cal 9 1752 < 1253012492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : September 1752 < 1253012492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa < 1253012493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 2 14 15 16 < 1253012493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17 18 19 20 21 22 23 < 1253012494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 25 26 27 28 29 30 < 1253012500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smart software. < 1253012545 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253012621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... there's blood under my nail < 1253012624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope it doesn't leak out < 1253012634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too late < 1253012637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psst: there's blood INSIDE you, too. < 1253012638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to test 09-1752 in Mycology's DATE tests but decided I'm not that anal < 1253012754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you another anal instead? < 1253012767 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1253012849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll install Arch in VM. < 1253012855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a VM < 1253012856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But meh. < 1253012861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more satisfying to get it working properly. < 1253012990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh i have not the patiene to go through base and remove the crap that annoys me. bleah. < 1253013886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253014350 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253014365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, X starts with radeonhd if I do "sudo X" manually and twm, xclock run. < 1253014370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xterm still fucks up, sigh. < 1253014447 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#^4&/@% < 1253014449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, hi. Console mode has oppressively large fonts. < 1253014451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: wat < 1253014452 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess the language < 1253014459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge < 1253014463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1253014475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom < 1253014507 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that either, I'm afraid < 1253014511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#archlinux in summary: < 1253014523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : As detailed description of the problem as I can think of. < 1253014525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you're not in the mood for guessing: Mathematica < 1253014530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You didn't give any info. < 1253014542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can you clarify as to what sort of information I should give? < 1253014546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* crickets chirp < 1253014549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* deafening silence < 1253014561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what does the % do? < 1253014567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: modulo? < 1253014569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can figure the rest of it, I think < 1253014574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I doubt it < 1253014576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previous result < 1253014580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253014580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1253014582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253014591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"raise all elements of the previous result to the 4th power" < 1253014597 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1253014608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253014624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# = arg1, ^4 = obvs power, & postfix = lambda, /@ = map, % = prev < 1253014624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1253014634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{x^4} map previous < 1253014637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253014639 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1253014654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like J, except without the interesting paradigm or concise code < 1253014656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, it would be simpler in Underlambda < 1253014663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no doubt < 1253014663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :-D < 1253014665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is saying something < 1253014697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be "ans.^4" in Matlab, but that's rather a special case of the elementwise-exponentiation operator. < 1253014725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4^)e I think in Underlambda < 1253014739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in Haskell, rather similar but with a different notation < 1253014761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, predictably the person who whined at me has not said a peep since < 1253014765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit and run complainer < 1253014782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread "hit-and-run compiler". < 1253014794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be gcc. :P < 1253014813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh god, what happened here?!" "GCC." < 1253014877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel that way often. < 1253014887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's a lie, but i would if i was in the habit of developing in c < 1253014903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not into the whole masochism thing any more, you know? < 1253014976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1253014980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like you guys get to debug my system! < 1253014981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253014995 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253015008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I expect anyone to know, google certainly didn't < 1253015028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation) while doing X_OpenFont in xterm, without it popping up any window < 1253015043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, xedit immediately bus errors before doing squat. < 1253015050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no doubt there are other issues. wtf. < 1253015145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xedit? < 1253015219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, the stock X text editor. < 1253015220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks < 1253015229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot: twm works fine < 1253015243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can manage as many xclocks as i want, because that works. < 1253015259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does gdb work? < 1253015265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does xterm/ < 1253015284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, read ^ < 1253015290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'll try xterm in gdb < 1253015332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1253015336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't read symbols from libxcb < 1253015338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file truncated < 1253015339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dun dun dun???? < 1253015353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reinstalls xcb < 1253015360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1253015361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1253015364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't gdb < 1253015598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose clocking the processor by hand would be too slow < 1253015603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you might not have a notated debugging dump < 1253015614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite. < 1253015626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had the truncated thing with xkb or something else too. i wonder what the hell it is. < 1253015736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... but really, this is a popular consumer machine with relatively standard hardware once you've booted up < 1253015751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that I'm having to do this shit doesn't reflect well on arch's polish level < 1253015893 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253015933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't even start to think about how i'd debug such an odd problem < 1253015954 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace, see if anything weird fails < 1253016068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. X_OpenFont. < 1253016069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253016085 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_OpenFont isn't a system call < 1253016210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd start by reinstalling everything font-related, something might just have been corrupted < 1253016226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The resulting file is so long I have no idea wher to look. < 1253016242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's looking at icon files and finding they don't exist at this point. < 1253016250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why it is doing that. It is xterm. < 1253016254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep for where it prints BadAlloc and see if anything failed near that. < 1253016303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's at the end. And the answer is yes, but I don't know what the hell it is because it's all buried in a sea of random crap involving \0 a lot and font names. < 1253016323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trying to read something from FD 3 and getting resource temporarily unavailable. < 1253016347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It opens /dev/ptmx right before that. < 1253016371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, uh, I know what's failing, except I have no idea what the hell /dev/ptmx is or why this is happening. < 1253016398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pseudoterminals. < 1253016405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's trying to write something about fonts to a pseudoterminal and failing. < 1253016410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, read. < 1253016411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1253016415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a clue. < 1253016441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it ... writevs... to it with something about the fonts and... < 1253016451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I really don't know. This is hopeless. I'll try xedit. < 1253016475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFAULT bad address on the exec() line that starts up xedit. < 1253016482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stillborn < 1253016484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253016565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling is bringing up absolutely nothing. < 1253016632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:riZzgIDtKTIJ:forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-511364-start-0.html+x_openfont+badalloc&cd=16&hl=en&ct=clnk quite quickly < 1253016644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it just says that he rebuilt everything and then it worked. < 1253016682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows: Turn it off and on again. < 1253016691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo: Rebuild world again. < 1253016709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I can't copy-paste on the console :-( < 1253016713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make a tinyurl? < 1253016816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tinyurl.com/rebnx4 < 1253016831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1253016894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to purge pacman of downloaded files for a group? < 1253016898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would like it to download X again... < 1253016905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few weeks ago we were in a bus at the terminal station; time came for the bus to leave, it moved a dozen centimetres and prompty hung up. < 1253016907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the bus driver shouted to passengers that it's refusing to switch gears, and he's going to try turning it off and on again; he did that, and after the bus was rebooted it again worked just fine. < 1253016935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be one aspect of that "ubiquitous computing" thing, bringing the reboot-troubleshooting to the real world too. < 1253016945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253017063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Scc cleans the whole cache < 1253017099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably fruitless; I can remove the top-level X packages but not easily their dependencies. < 1253017102 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Syy X might force a redownload, not sure < 1253017135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of every single relevant dependency? I didn't know they were putting strong AI in package managers these days. < 1253017152 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err wut? < 1253017225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xorg-foo depends on libxbutt depends on libxblah which contains the problem. < 1253017233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -R xorg doesn't remove libxblah, so it stays. < 1253017255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Rss xorg does. < 1253017260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; reinstalled the top-level xorg packages, no damn change. < 1253017273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Neato. < 1253017377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :package managers have an Rss feed nowadays? < 1253017432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WORKS < 1253017433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1253017459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you had some wrong-bittiness stuff somewhere or something. < 1253017462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay, rebooting < 1253017471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1253017598 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253017605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello from irssi from xterm from twm from black background < 1253017617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from X11 from startx from bash from login < 1253017629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253017638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from your mom. Wait, that's just a boring true statement. < 1253017657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, my mom wrote login. < 1253017674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your grandma wrote grub < 1253017675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1253017680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253017689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My great grandmother is Linus Torvalds. < 1253017710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I guess I should install yaourt. < 1253017722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know of any good linux webkit browsers < 1253017723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1253017746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could try that new-fangled uzbl thing all the Arch kids are raving about. < 1253017775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but look, it's in AUR. So I need to install yaourt. < 1253017786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That program with the annoying policy of calling sudo for you. < 1253017814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaourt? < 1253017827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It builds packages from AUR for you, and then installs them with pacman. < 1253017836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253017839 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other AUR-builders, I think. < 1253017841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It calls sudo for you so that you don't build packages at root. < 1253017856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, an administrative command without sudo in front feels wrong; can't it drop privileges for that part? < 1253017858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fakeroot? < 1253017860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh? < 1253017884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AUR_Helpers < 1253017943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a worrying feeling that 90% of those are look-I-wrote-a-short-unworking-script-it's-officially-a-project-now things. < 1253017995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default xterm font is so horribly small. < 1253018081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I can't use pacman-color because it requires a pacman 0.1 versions older. < 1253018082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fun. < 1253018112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use yaourt + powerpill < 1253018142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea. < 1253018191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohkayy, uzbl isn't in AUR either, so yaourt tells me in unreadable yellow-on-white. < 1253018200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just install, uh, what are you hip kids using? < 1253018253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Arora. Arora's good, isn't it? Supposed to be, at least. < 1253018298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Powerpill does sure spew a lot about how it's making your download ohso-fast. < 1253018301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oh-so < 1253018318 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's noticeable for me since my local mirror can't handle my bandwidth. < 1253018319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :963kiB/s. That's the highest my connection's ever reached. < 1253018334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :-D < 1253018349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will pummel you with my bandwidth-shaped residential connection, puny server!" < 1253018378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait wait WAIT is that qt 3? < 1253018383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that is qt 3 that is so not cool man. < 1253018385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT. COOL. < 1253018396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's 4. < 1253018398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, AnMaster's a KDE 3 fan, isn't he? < 1253018399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just looks like 3 by default. < 1253018403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1253018412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and KDE and Qt version numbers match IIRC < 1253018415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks acceptable, anyway. < 1253018430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That font is actually, I feel bad saying this, but I'll be honest, that font looks damn good unantialiased. < 1253018439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's bitmap helvetica or whatever. < 1253018487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, Arora is fast and stuff. < 1253018495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The controls are a bit ugly. < 1253018513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also some links aren't underlined. < 1253018613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this no-antialiasing-until-selecting bug on some pages were fixed this would bef ine. < 1253018619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be fine < 1253018656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what's that thing to remove and all unused dependencies btw? < 1253018660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you said before < 1253018661 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaourt -Qdt < 1253018667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, for one package < 1253018668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But okay < 1253018687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I said that before since I'm not sure how to do that :-P < 1253018696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for xorg < 1253018712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Rss removes xorg and all of its dependencies, including explicitly installed ones < 1253018723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253018724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Rss xorg* < 1253018732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries midori < 1253018739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, we seem to have a new spambot < 1253018747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just spamming "doors.txt;10;15" < 1253018749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if powerpill has a ... uh ... thingy < 1253018753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with nonsense edit summaries < 1253018753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiet option < 1253018753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pacman -Rs would remove the unneeded ones only, I think < 1253018772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to install urxvt and set the background black. < 1253018776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much stuff assumes it's black.. < 1253018779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*black. < 1253018781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a bigger font. < 1253018789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, um, soemthing that isn't twm. Would be nice. < 1253018800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twm > * < 1253018810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If by > you mean <. < 1253018819 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twm + xedit is all you need in an X system < 1253018828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also wtf is it with powerpill going to a crawl every now and then? < 1253018835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been from 0B to 4kiB recently. < 1253018835 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And xeyes to know where your pointer is < 1253018836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just now. < 1253018871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tends to slow down at the end when it's only downloading from one mirror or so < 1253018878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that mirror is a slow one. < 1253018892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god Raleigh < 1253018894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My eyes my EYES < 1253018900 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, that's what I think it is. < 1253018955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you can't customize Midori's toolbar. < 1253018962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't really have expected more of a GTK app :-P < 1253018999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the interface font is irritatingly just big enough to be ugly. < 1253019000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho hum. < 1253019032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this is just way too ugly, I'm installing that whateveritis that makes gtk stuf fuse the qt theme. < 1253019067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTK fuses with the Qt theme creating QtK < 1253019093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, Midori has an Opera-style speed dial. < 1253019103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a whole bunch of useless preferences; is this meant to be simple? < 1253019142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Qt won't apply QGtkStyle correctly if GTK is using the GTK-QT-Engine." < 1253019152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This clearly ignores the large segment of users who would like all interface elements to be fractal. < 1253019176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pacman -S lynx < 1253019178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, gtk-qt-engine pulled in both gnome and kde stuff < 1253019201 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253019246 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1253019275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How does powerpill get speeds >900kiB/s on my connection which never gets them < 1253019279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1253019280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's astounding. < 1253019301 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It downloads from multiple servers which all upload at >900KiB/s < 1253019319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kiB, you anti-SI freak. < 1253019333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k is kilo, Ki is kibi, there is no ki. < 1253019341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, gtk-qt-engine apps are uglier than Raleigh. < 1253019343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite an achievement. < 1253019356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION obliterates that and midori, asks you for the remove-unused thing < 1253019373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also, i is a suffix on prefixes that changes them from binary to decimal. < 1253019382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kis = 1024 seconds. kiB = 1024 bytes. < 1253019383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1253019402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what was that removey thing? < 1253019408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when? And since when is k binary? < 1253019428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k isn't binary; that's why you suffix it with i. < 1253019429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the i that's binary < 1253019430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, IEC says the prefix for kibi is "Ki", I'd trust them over an ehird any day of the week. < 1253019435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k = 1000. ki = 1024. < 1253019438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: My method is more consistent. < 1253019448 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "changes them from binary to decimal" < 1253019451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a simple modification of SI: the suffix i after a prefix makes it binary. < 1253019454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your more consistent, more logical method is also more nonstandard. < 1253019456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, flip that. < 1253019472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But SI is mostly consistent and logical, so let's go with my version, that keeps within its spirit. < 1253019580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders whether he should ever ever ever remove history. < 1253019585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's history, after all! < 1253019612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use the default search engine as fallback when the URL given by the user is invalid" < 1253019616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssss < 1253019634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooo < 1253019659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why noooo < 1253019678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh wtf Arora, Arial 16 as the default font? Courier New 16 as the fixed width? < 1253019699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be nice if the bitmap Helvetica sizes >9 were as pretty. < 1253019705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though 12 is pretty decent. < 1253019711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically it means I've typoed a bookmark-keyword and a google search for "ge foobar" when I tried to do a google image search for "foobar" isn't that helpful < 1253019723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have bookmark keywods. < 1253019727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*keywords < 1253019758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured. < 1253019800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh I forgot about that arora bug < 1253019914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, it's really fucking annoing the missing underlines < 1253020023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: so does powerpill really download from 40-odd servers at once? < 1253020037 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about 40-odd, but more than one certainly < 1253020097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I wrote an .Xresources file for black background, white foreground and no scrollbar in URxvt, merged it, and ran urxvt without looking up a single thing. < 1253020110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conclude that X resources aren't exceedingly crappy as an interface. < 1253020167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually disappointed in myeslf for liking a Qt interface with the default, KDE 3-style widgets and unantialiased bitmap fonts :-P < 1253020174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*myself < 1253020203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your disappointment is really fruuging up your spelling skills. < 1253020228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's this keyboard. < 1253020237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253020252 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253020257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now with 100% more urxvt! < 1253020373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run stuff in screen so you don't have to restart it all < 1253020395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1253020400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extreme apathy dictates < 1253020421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use cryopid and see how that works out < 1253020591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fuck, xfontsel has the most confusing UI ever < 1253020731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what's funny? < 1253020740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dark blue that ls uses by default is unreadable on black terminals. < 1253020743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi is unreadable on white terminals. < 1253020747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not fucking using a gray terminal. < 1253020770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just twiddle in some better RGB values for the colors. < 1253020789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laze! < 1253020789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure xfontsel is that much more confusing than those X font descriptor strings inherently. < 1253020814 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: urxvt.color12: #a0a0ff < 1253020818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why he can't set the urxvt font in .Xres-- would help to merge, wouldn't it. < 1253020849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do it in .Xdefaults < 1253020857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that better? < 1253020861 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1253020864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253020876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rxvt.background: black < 1253020876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rxvt.foreground: white < 1253020876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rxvt.scrollBar: none < 1253020876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rxvt.font: -misc-fixed-*-*-normal-*-15-*-*-*-*-*-*-* < 1253020876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Rxvt.color12: #A0A0FF < 1253020879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ yummy < 1253020886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the color12 line < 1253020952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1253020977 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253021176 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253021179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1253021201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghurt < 1253021276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, I can't find a way to instruct arora that middle click should open a new window < 1253021282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still has that underline problem... < 1253021289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try chromium, see what it's like on linux these days < 1253021498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@ding ~]$ chromium-browser < 1253021499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11573:11573:3983975350:FATAL:/b/slave/chromium-rel-linux-64/build/src/app/gfx/font_skia.cc(90)] Check failed: tf. Could not find font: Helvetica < 1253021502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/chromium-browser: line 4: 11573 Trace/breakpoint trap ./chrome --enable-greasemonkey --enable-user-scripts "$@" < 1253021505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much for that. < 1253021583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Man is much better than us at figuring this out < 1253021583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unset MANPATH < 1253021587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that supposed to mean? < 1253021594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sure can't find the pages in /usr/local/man < 1253021706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, /etc/man.conf < 1253021716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a bloated piece of crap! < 1253021736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man_db.conf nowadays < 1253021756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should handle it if i can get shit in $PATH. < 1253021806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting flickering artifacts on my screen. I hope that isn't radeonhd. < 1253021966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably is. < 1253022932 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253023002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1253023527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253025144 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97.118.115.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253026311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253026361 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@91.153.117.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253027238 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253027288 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253028219 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-95.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253028608 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253029091 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253029689 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253030147 0 :augur_!n=augur@129-2-135-95.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253030147 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253030633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1253030981 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253031010 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253031900 0 :oklofog!n=oklopol@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe99f800-14.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253032222 0 :xfire35!n=xfire35@cpc2-pete3-0-0-cust800.pete.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253032263 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone online? < 1253032335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually < 1253032337 0 :xfire35!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253032405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1253032413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253032420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how odd < 1253032515 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-12-15.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253032749 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe99f800-14.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253033632 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253033672 0 :oklofog!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253033736 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1253033741 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed that some new guy joined < 1253034181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253039333 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253039355 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253039367 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253039679 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253040914 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253040971 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253041093 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253041901 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253041916 0 :oklofog!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253042395 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253042951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253044456 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253044595 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253044871 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253044914 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253045427 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253046460 0 :oklofog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253048404 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-9-237.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253049055 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1253049126 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253049635 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253051111 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253051119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253051430 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253051640 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253053551 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253053592 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-41-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253054097 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253054238 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sulks at C# not having typedef >:| < 1253054986 0 :Elench!n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253056794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253056858 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253056997 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253058535 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-31-129.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253059196 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253059831 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253060087 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253060488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My classmates are idiots < 1253060510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were talking about another class, where a box with lights was hooked up to the computer, and they had to control it via C++ < 1253060520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them said that the box must understand C++ < 1253060537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They eventually decided that the box understands assembly (thinking assembly was machine code) < 1253060764 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253061947 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253062976 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253063051 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like the chinese box either < 1253063189 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: this is where you have fun < 1253063199 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print out the assembly and stick the box on it < 1253063206 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253063229 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I'm not in that class with them < 1253063232 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253063237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a shame < 1253063491 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253063687 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253063878 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253065516 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253067947 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253067975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uo < 1253067977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yo < 1253067994 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1253068003 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253068040 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-081-085.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253068086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arora aaaaalmost works, and it aaaaalmost works a bit less if you don't want to use tabs :( < 1253068406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freefall :) < 1253068471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freefall :( < 1253068472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not like falling < 1253068482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a comic < 1253068489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I ended up putting the punchline as my Facebook status < 1253068501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253068666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, Arora was briefly installed on my computer; wonder why it got taken off < 1253068674 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misread that as Agora < 1253068737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arora is good except the toolbar grpahics are a bit cheesy, link underlines (especially on google sites for some reason) sometimes don't appear unless you click them or select them as text, < 1253068748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't define middle-click as open in new windo < 1253068749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1253068751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*window < 1253068754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all i can think of atm < 1253068769 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs >> windows < 1253068787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah, I use tabs < 1253068791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my WM does that. < 1253068797 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, neat < 1253068801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, it's managing windows :P < 1253068812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have Ctrl+Tab? < 1253068832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can rebind the keys, but yes; it's one button more, though < 1253068922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes through convolutions to avoid spoiling the joke in the title < 1253068972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, what? now you HAVE to tell us. < 1253068977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also the only tiling WM with decent mouse support imo, which is useful when web browsing < 1253068985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid context switching from the mouse < 1253069004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, um, you read it, apparently < 1253069012 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION posted it on reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/9kyqr/hit_me_with_a_pie_here_you_go/ < 1253069016 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucky title, I know < 1253069032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh, how come you didn't know he meant reddit title, oerjan < 1253069034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't you psychic < 1253069036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like everyone else < 1253069040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1253069055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but a very slow psychic < 1253069070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll get it one of these days, i'm sure < 1253069221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the WM is ion3plus, which I have qualms about using due to its author and utterly ridiculous license clauses (though he recently removed the timeout-for-new-versions thing), but on the other hand no other tiling WM I've tried is even close to as usable < 1253069281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, an arora problem I forgot: it blocks popups silently, so you can't choose to let one through if you want it < 1253069339 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? :( < 1253069385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really to what? < 1253069443 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silent popup blocking < 1253069463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's annoying, but really I don't mind too much < 1253069474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really click "detach this window" type stuff < 1253069481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it won't block things like javascript:window.open, prolly < 1253069483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tricksier stuff < 1253069800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing ion handles very well is auxillary wnidows to the current one < 1253069807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically overlays it along the bottom of the window < 1253070023 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reasons why I don't use Arora: It sends referrer unconditionally and doesn't let to configure TLS (and doesn't have Links2-like "who cares" attitude to TLS). < 1253070038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOES!!1125612 REFERER! < 1253070045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253070051 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TLS? < 1253070053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, err, what's the TLS problem? < 1253070056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: SSL thing. < 1253070234 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't be configured to require PFS. Even Firefox can be configured that way. Links2 can't be configured so either, but it doesn't matter as Links2 seems to think that proper place for certificates is /dev/null. < 1253070332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My only problem with Arora is... well, the ones I said. < 1253070357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PFS? < 1253070365 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect Forward Security. < 1253070420 0 :lifthrasiir!i=1CBOWieh@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253070427 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning, key exchange algorithm is DHE, ECDHE or SRP (not that any web browser supports that). < 1253071427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if qt has some sort of generic tool to rebind things like mouse clicks. < 1253071529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there some OS project that uses Qt, so that the OS itself is in C, and applications are in C++, to prevent the OS from doing GUI stuff directly, or something like that? < 1253071552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever it is, it sounds brain damaged. < 1253071614 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be the way I'm describing it < 1253071668 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253071852 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253072393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, wasabi peas... < 1253072431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253073993 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253074195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253075541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1253075557 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have wasabi peas in my possession < 1253075569 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just can't get in the mood for eating them :/ < 1253076209 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rub them in your eyes first. < 1253076221 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will get you in the mood to eat them. < 1253076231 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just trust me on this one. < 1253076546 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.96.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253076549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mega meh < 1253076592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the biggest meh ever dreamed of < 1253076593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amplified < 1253076595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tenzinified < 1253076598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya ken? < 1253076751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you were talking recently, i checked the logs < 1253076754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot fool me < 1253076808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm busy murdering my wrists. < 1253076824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's a very pretentious way to reveal to us that you cut yourself. < 1253076853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In your *eyes*? Ouch. < 1253076882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Gregor is murdering his wrists in his eyes :P < 1253076908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You know, you've lost your R-zest. < 1253076933 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can murder my wrists well enough with two keyboards and no knives. < 1253076944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In your eyes. < 1253076980 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregoR < 1253076980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253076984 0 :GregoR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Howzat? < 1253076991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure thing, Grego Richards. < 1253076995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your name sounds... Italian. < 1253077012 0 :GregoR!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1253077026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, Gregor $*&~Segmentation fault < 1253077460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff35fg4g4g54g41fg445455445545 < 1253077540 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253077632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm meh doesn't fit really < 1253077633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say: < 1253077634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1253077639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these things are Important < 1253077783 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I made this null terminated string just for y6oD2^xk%hV@[^yZ7Ju+ Rub them in your eyes first. <-- i take it your eyes work about similarly weirdly as your nose... < 1253108243 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1253109046 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253109061 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253109718 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253109752 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253109854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253109870 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-223.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253110262 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253110290 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253110322 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@91.153.117.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253110890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1253111289 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@91.153.117.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253111358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253116919 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253118879 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-151.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253119296 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253121143 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253125239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253126626 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1253126705 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-24-24.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253127382 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-46.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253128665 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253129298 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90de5@gateway/web/freenode/x-iogthbpnlmowzrai JOIN :#esoteric < 1253129426 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253130529 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253130631 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1253130636 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1253132025 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253133725 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253133766 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some idea for esolangs based on mahjong game. < 1253133777 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might write it more later, on the wiki < 1253133855 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you could have one "Mahjong operator" act on two inputs and one output. If the input is [3man,3man] then the output is [3man] and if the input is [5sou,4sou] then the output can be [3sou] or [6sou] < 1253134159 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253134284 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I would have to make it multiple outputs sometimes, too < 1253134306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possibly more than two inputs, also. < 1253134482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253134660 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-46.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253134716 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys, would it be correct to say that continuations make parallelism easier? < 1253134931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd certainly make implementing it easier < 1253134937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a non-parallel system < 1253134961 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253135120 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253135324 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253135581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253136823 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253137017 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: In latter case, is the output deterministic, (pseudo)random or nondeterministic? < 1253137496 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253138026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I'm not sure. I think it could be made deterministic < 1253138051 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, with multiple program thread and can communicate afterward together too < 1253138112 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Mahjongg operator is affected by all threads and forms "covert channel" between threads? < 1253138265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be a possibility. < 1253138298 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the input could be a list instead of just 2 entries. And the output could also just be a list, without multithreading or anything. < 1253138342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example: [4sou,5sou] -> [3sou,6sou]; [1man,1man] -> [1man]; [4pin,5pin,6pin,7pin] -> [4pin,7pin]; < 1253138390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, if you have 4567 then you have a incomplete sequence and a pair, and you have to complete the pair with a 4 or 7, where the 567 or 456 would then be a sequence. < 1253138421 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you have honors, there is no sequence, of course. < 1253138457 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example: [haku,haku,chun,chun] -> [haku,chun] < 1253138928 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make everything a list. So, applying the mahjong operator twice to [2sou,2sou,3sou,3sou] would result in [1sou,4sou] < 1253139588 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in non-turing-complete front: BLOOP augmented with Conway arrow operator. < 1253139817 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be capable of expressing g_n. g_1 is already unimaginable. g_64 is Graham's number... So it grows fast. < 1253140458 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253140469 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-081-085.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253141022 0 :augur_!n=augur@129-2-134-46.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253141022 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253141687 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253142020 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-072-021.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253142170 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253142213 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253142671 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253143002 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253143454 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253143901 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253144078 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1253144091 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253144103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1253144117 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253144264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1253144266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and night < 1253144280 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@24.207.48.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253144287 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you used "ImageMagick"? < 1253144314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used convert from imagemagick yes < 1253144315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1253144332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quite a strange question to ask, considering how common the software is < 1253144356 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used ImageMagick for not only image processing, but for audio processing, too. < 1253144362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253144365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253144369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does that? < 1253144413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't support audio formats, but if you have a raw audio file, you can load it as a file with a height of 1 and do processing on it. < 1253144429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would never had thought of that < 1253144442 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imconvert -size 84622x1 -depth 8 r:- -channel R -fx "p{i+20*sin(i/50),j}" r:- < 1253144452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, that's a kind of flanger effect. < 1253144456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253144460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use audacity < 1253144510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, "imconvert"? < 1253144522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everywhere I seen it, it was just "convert" < 1253144531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would break scripts using it < 1253144549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefixed all the files with "im" to make it work with Windows. On UNIX systems you would not prefix with "im" < 1253144577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe "convert" is an existing command on windows *shrug* < 1253144718 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they could add built-in audio support with red channell for the left channel, and green for the right channel. ImageMagick has FFT (although an external library has to be added to use it), and other stuff, so it should work. < 1253144754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other feature I wanted in ImageMagick is a utility to put formatted text onto a image, including with masking and symbol-fonts, like Magic Set Editor does. < 1253144858 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I work on MSE :) < 1253144896 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, I think I read the name "coppro" somewhere in the MSE, but I wouldn't quite remember exactly < 1253144902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the Linux de < 1253144904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dev < 1253144920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is MSE? < 1253144948 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Custom card renderer < 1253144969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :card? as in *.vcard? < 1253144973 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, image magick text formatting might have a file with \ for each format, such as \^ for superscript, \_ for subscript, \b for bold, \i for italic, \z for symbols, \s for relative size, -mask for mask image, and so on < 1253144981 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, as in CCG < 1253144986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, CCG? < 1253144995 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collectible Card Game < 1253145000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh those < 1253145073 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ImageMagick has enough functions to render the card, except for a utility to write formatted text in the same way. < 1253145159 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSE uses wxWidgets :/ < 1253145186 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know that. < 1253145576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, script gimp? < 1253145602 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t! < 1253145616 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally figured out how to convince automake to do precompiled headers! < 1253145623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hideous, but it works! < 1253145628 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about GIMP, but I prefer ImageMagick. < 1253145810 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Isn't it just like include_HEADERS= then .h.gch:\n\t < 1253145829 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I wish < 1253145859 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they'll add it eventually < 1253145863 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253145946 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for now, it's a nasty hack < 1253145978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the point? for most realistic C header examples you don't save very much < 1253146000 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this is a C++ project; I think I just cut compile time in 3 < 1253146003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is a pain to maintain < 1253146014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when stuff like #inludes in headers change < 1253146040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I renamed the old file, and then Pidgin makes a new file.. it's corrupt < 1253146046 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, the precompiled header is always first < 1253146064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you remember that, things are good < 1253146084 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1253146131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what if cflages changes? Or GCC version < 1253146146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then it's recompiled as it normally would be < 1253146158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that would be mostly an issue if the file was installed < 1253146169 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this is not for a library < 1253146181 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be an issue if it was installed < 1253146185 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fortunately it's not :) < 1253146220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253146223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night -> < 1253146328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only one flaw < 1253146352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the dummy files is getting distributed because I can't but it in nodist_SOURCES or else it gets built after the rest of the project < 1253146365 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the precompiled headers must always be first < 1253147278 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there command-line programs to render text on images like I described? < 1253147507 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253147674 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: to my limited knowledge, there is not < 1253147807 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1253147886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we used the "mahjong operator" in a new esolang, like I described (the input set can consist of a tenpai hand with any number of sets of three tiles and up to one pair), are any calculations reasonably done with this? < 1253147897 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The input and output would be unordered sets with duplicates OK < 1253147919 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and add the concatenation operator too < 1253147959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be sufficient for most uses? < 1253148103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you rexplain the operator? < 1253148248 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The operator does: If you have a tenpai hand (where a complete hand must contain any number of sets of three tiles and up to one pair), then the output will be the list of possible tiles to complete this hand. < 1253148265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example: [chun,chun,1man,3man] -> [2man] < 1253148268 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253148290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT WINDOWS! I DO NOT WANT YOU TO KEEP TELLING ME ABOUT YOUR CORRUPTED FILES < 1253148317 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then also needs a command for jumping if the list is empty/non-empty < 1253148317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweep corruption under the rug, i say < 1253148371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I just wish there was an ignore button < 1253148373 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm... I think I need to know more of the context of the language to understand where it might be useful :) < 1253148379 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the number of elements in the input list is divisible by three, the output list would necessarily be empty. < 1253148489 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, I guess so. But I'm just wondering if you can think of ways to make it so that it would be sufficient and can do many calculation with: mahjong operator, concatenation operator, condition operator. < 1253148688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Sunday, I played D&D. My character, and a monster, teleported into the exact center of a building, and there was a kitchen there, with a fire elemental cooking something. Now my question is, how would *you* act in this situation? (I have some idea but maybe you are different?) < 1253148913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, what's for dinner?" < 1253148937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has played D&D exactly once in his life, though, ihrc < 1253148940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to have Profession (Cooking) skill, so I decided to use that. < 1253148978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, now I can know where the kitchen is, so I could now figure out the rest of the building relative to this one < 1253149179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It'd depend upon the character I'm playing. < 1253149198 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1253149201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were playing, say, Thrug, my half-orc half-dragon barbarian, Thrug smash. < 1253149216 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you mean just smash everything? < 1253149230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(quite likely with the boulders he carries) < 1253149232 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, only once? What version did you play? And do you plan to try again? < 1253149244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253149301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall. it was at the local convention, and probably more than ten years ago < 1253149312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does recall he played a paladin, though < 1253149367 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, a paladin. Can you also describe other things you can remember, such as equipment, race, etc < 1253149388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would really prefer it if there was a non-web client for Wave < 1253149401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "Wave"? < 1253149416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Wave < 1253149419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i was human < 1253149443 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, human. And what equipment? < 1253149447 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And did you have any spells? < 1253149490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall a bit of the _plot_ perhaps. the things you mention i consider far too boring to remember. < 1253149493 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Maybe you can use the API to write a non-web client for Wave? < 1253149505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what plot? If you can remember < 1253149511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't skilled enough to do that < 1253149519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess I could make a poor attempt < 1253149530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in any of the previews, though < 1253149558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee it was a dungeon crawl of sorts, to get an artifact of some kind for a prince or something (you can tell it's not very accurate) < 1253149561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Eh, that's because D&D tends to make mechanics more complex than they need to be. < 1253149587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike GURPS, which is only complex because it's got quite a few emergent properties. < 1253149602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall there were some statues coming alive and going after us once we got the artifact < 1253149607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(resulting from the design decision to make just about any idea possible to implement in it) < 1253149615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the artifact was in a room full of them < 1253149627 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ya, well, I prefer Icosahedral RPG, but it isn't quite finished being written yet. < 1253149671 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, my character in D&D is, I prefer to not fight anyone if I can avoid it, and I have been pretty successful at it < 1253149673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, only two of us survived i think, i was one of them. a couple died at the last minute because they panicked and jumped into a door to some kind of anti-dimension < 1253149762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i survived essentially i think because i played rightful paladin and therefore didn't do anything fishy... < 1253149764 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a previous D&D game I played, there was also statues that were going to come alive, but we managed to prevent that, by all our characters also disguised as extra statues, I also found a stick next to someone who has used "Hold Person" (but a saving throw has been made after a few rounds), and it was a magic stick. < 1253149779 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone told me not to break it, but I still decided to break the magic stick. And that worked. < 1253149795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played in a campaign where we accidentally started the industrial revolution. < 1253149798 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All magic items and other magic effects in the vicinity were destroyed instantly. < 1253149807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And were well on the way to having a post-scarcity society. < 1253149812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also maybe the singularity. < 1253149813 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that greatly helped. < 1253149848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now you should learn these things too. < 1253150662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you guys use the CTRL+A ACTION command too much, anyways? < 1253150763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253150858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea < 1253151032 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks oerjan just wanted to use "IHRC" < 1253151195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION claims that the ihrc only happened while the sentence was being written < 1253151312 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think we use ACTION too much at all. < 1253151314 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253151359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION agrees with Gregor. also, he finds an R someone dropped. < 1253151374 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought he burned that. < 1253151387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks a bit sooty < 1253151441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to snag this nick, upping my coolness points 1 trillion X. < 1253151471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some return on investment < 1253151486 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since the investment is roughly 0. < 1253151511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO < 1253151546 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSLA < 1253151614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puget sound limousine association? i would stay away from those guys if i were you < 1253151631 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was continuing your "OO" :P < 1253151648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253151682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoopsla < 1253151825 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253152807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253152828 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253155286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....wtf < 1253155287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whereas you rarely won't get any lies from them" < 1253155408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't fail to misunderstand that. maybe. < 1253155466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should have quoted the full sentence < 1253155467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Something else you should know is that they are also very honest people whereas you rarely won't get any lies from them because of their honesty." < 1253155572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly. < 1253157690 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253159909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants a laugh? < 1253159964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes sure not to drink anything < 1253159992 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it's a guessing game now: why does my school still use IE 6? < 1253160029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee, they fired the only guy who knew how to upgrade things? < 1253160076 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1253160098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a homebrew web-based system that requires it? < 1253160105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope! < 1253160127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their machines are so old they don't run anything newer? < 1253160150 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe, but not the reason! < 1253160164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a _commercial_ web-based system that requires it? < 1253160172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1253160181 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they have any web-based system < 1253160185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes some of those are not actually funny < 1253160196 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to know the real reason? < 1253160226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1253160229 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because of security concenrs, apparently < 1253160231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*concenrs < 1253160234 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*concerns < 1253160244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rolls eyes < 1253160249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Not Making This Up < 1253160253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(literally) < 1253161607 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :copprop < 1253161610 0 :copprop!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :copprp < 1253161749 0 :copprp!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1253163396 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253163892 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253164006 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253164305 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253167710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253168013 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253168529 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253172389 0 :Patashu!n=Patashu@c122-106-162-185.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253172956 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253173572 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253173770 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@67.180.202.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253174399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253174400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253177004 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1253177135 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253181926 0 :amca!n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253188700 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1253188806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1253188812 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1253190827 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Farewell" < 1253191228 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253191235 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253191258 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1253191674 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253195928 0 :nice!n=nice@p5B133C28.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253195940 0 :nice!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253195991 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B133C28.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253198044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who knows Russian, is http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:P-prime-prime spam or just a query in the wrong language? < 1253200135 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253201230 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253201566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the thing out of google translate looks awfully generic. < 1253201584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like spam, or like a genuine query? < 1253201588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what was Oleg's response? < 1253201613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"English please. Do you like it here?" < 1253201751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wrong question, it looks like many of those things that are obvious bots but still try to _look_ like genuine queries, but reveal themselves because (1) they show up in a completely ridiculous page name (2) they contain nothing that indicates the poster knows what the wiki is about at all < 1253201769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains nothing resembling an ad, though < 1253201785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be confused by the fact this one has only (2) < 1253201831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Beautifully turned out ... I do not know how the rest, but I like it. By the way, how to subscribe to my email box comes if someone has left a comment?" < 1253201845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that quite possibly /is/ spam < 1253201856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like an opinion from a native speaker, though < 1253201914 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1253201987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Google just bought reCAPTCHA < 1253201987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you _really_ need to learn to use google me thinks < 1253201995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if they'll open-source it < 1253202013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows up 4 exact matches to the post. i think that about settles it. < 1253202045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.no/search?hl=no&q=%22%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BE+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%83%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%8C...+%D0%9D%D0%B5+%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8E+%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BA+%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%BC%2C+%D0%BD%D0%BE+%D0%BC%D0%BD%D0%B5+%D0%BD%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%81%D1%8F.+%D0%9A%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%2C+%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BA+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B0%D1%82%D1% < 1253202061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o that was a long url < 1253202075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hex-encoded UTF-8 < 1253202077 0 :augur!n=augur@129.2.135.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253202079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, it's double-encoded < 1253202084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what's making the length < 1253202093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, URL-encoded, which is even worse than hex-encoded for length) < 1253202322 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx7v815bYUw < 1253203176 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253203998 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253204763 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.183.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253204773 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Patashu/SteampunkX - MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2 ." < 1253206039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253206133 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253207419 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253207695 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B133C28.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253208316 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Konversation terminated!" < 1253210129 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253210132 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1253210640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253210807 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-97-40.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253211987 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-153.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253215245 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253215258 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253215397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, about that double encoding < 1253215411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be even worse if it was UCS-4? < 1253215460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1253215564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utf-8 can iirc go up to 5 bytes, but I would be surprised if Russian letters required quite that much < 1253215613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 goes up to 4. < 1253215618 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253215631 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253215640 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253215641 0 :k!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253215642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that can't work out, since then you can't represent the full unicode range < 1253215669 0 :k!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest72698 < 1253215674 0 :Guest72698!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1253215678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 bytes are perfectly sufficient to represent 0x10ffff. < 1253215684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, doesn't the priate area continue past that? < 1253215730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but UTF-8 is restricted to the range 0-0x10ffff. < 1253215744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 bytes are enough for 0x10ffff < 1253215760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't there a UCS-3? < 1253215780 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because 3 isn't a nice number, I guess. < 1253215970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would be nice for 24-bit architectures I guess < 1253215974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are quite uncommon nowdays < 1253219016 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot" < 1253219339 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1253220058 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B1377C4.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253220170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you ever implement that packed 7-bit thing for convickt? < 1253220176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I haven't < 1253220187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't done C-INTERCAL work for ages, been working on other things < 1253220204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like Feather? XD < 1253220215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm confused enough as it is < 1253220223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253220397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what then? < 1253220401 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (brillig()&&toves==slithy) {toves.location='wabe'; toves.gyre(); toves.gimble(); borogoves=mimsy; mome_raths.outgrabe();} < 1253220431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TAEB and Enigma are the ones recently < 1253220522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, -_- < 1253220543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, what language is that supposed to be? < 1253220554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be valid as C++ with appropriate definitions < 1253220560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1253220562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't < 1253220563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Java I think, because the syntax is the same in that case < 1253220572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, look at the string quotes < 1253220580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, sort of, 'wabe' is a legal character constant in C++ < 1253220585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although compilers will disagree about what it means < 1253220600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't think of a sensible meaning of it... < 1253220623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C++ compilers disagreeing? Nothing new < 1253220689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, apart from the 'wabe' it could be valid C. Assuming toves and mome_raths were structs with function pointers in them < 1253220691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1253220708 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is it actually legal? I thought it was just a GCC extension < 1253220708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure how the precedence works there < 1253220713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm ok < 1253220713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and multiple-character constants are in the standard < 1253220717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for both C and C++ < 1253220726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's implementation-defined what they mean < 1253220731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253220740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought they were complete extensions < 1253220740 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anmaster: it's pseudo-JavaScript :-) < 1253220749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, JS < 1253220753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I guess it is intended to allow unicode or such? < 1253220754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, that works < 1253220756 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253220765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multi-byte thing < 1253220779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It predates Unicode, I think. But yeah, probably for multibyte stuff. < 1253220783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it's legal Perl < 1253220791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would mean something rather different from the JS if it were, though < 1253220799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, given the relevant Acme:: module I'm quite sure it is < 1253220802 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I'd try #poemsincode as a response to #songsincode < 1253220828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, there's a JAPH module which reinterprets any code at all as a JAPH < 1253220830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's cheating < 1253220935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, JAPH? < 1253220946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program that prints "Just another Perl hacker," < 1253220949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253220951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comma at the end is apparently not a typo < 1253220967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a common Perl contest to try to write the most obfuscated JAPH you can < 1253220972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the most ridiculous way you can < 1253220986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can imagine the java equivalent of those. XD < 1253221012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since writing unreadable one-liners is idiomatic perl... < 1253221019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I mean unreadable even for Perl < 1253221035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the java equivalent should be complete with javadoc and so on < 1253221041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I couldn't tell the difference < 1253221048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some particularly respected JAPHs have have included things like multiple processes with IPC < 1253221056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to print a constant string < 1253221063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they would have been rather long? < 1253221067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link to these? < 1253221078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print "Just another", ((0 and " Ruby ") or ("Pyt" + "hon" or " Perl ")), "hacker.\n", < 1253221081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1253221090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: haha, that's brilliant < 1253221100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how so? < 1253221110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's clearly designed to be a polyglot < 1253221117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fails in modern python < 1253221121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, wouldn't the Python version be losing spaces around it? < 1253221121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since print is now a function < 1253221132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you add parens, it works in Perl at least < 1253221135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about Ruby < 1253221207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with python3.1 I think it is time to drop python 2.6 support for new apps. Probably not for libraries yet though < 1253221225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and python 2.7 support should be dropped too < 1253221248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you add parens it will sometimes work in python 2.6 too < 1253221270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6>>> print "2 =",2 < 1253221270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 = 2 < 1253221278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with parens in 3 < 1253221279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1253221285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with parens in 2.6: < 1253221288 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's at least 3 years old, I think < 1253221290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Python adds spaces at commas? < 1253221294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6>>> print("2 =",2) < 1253221294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('2 =', 2) < 1253221305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, a tuple < 1253221325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one element it works though < 1253221336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of ruby,perl,python on that file work for me < 1253221341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then it is interpreted not as a tuple but just () grouping < 1253221343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently Python 2.6.2. < 1253221356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6>>> print(2) < 1253221356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1253221360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try python 3.0 or later < 1253221404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is it a two liner? < 1253221428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1>>> print "Just another", ((0 and " Ruby ") or ("Pyt" + "hon" or " Perl ")), "hacker.\n", < 1253221428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : File "", line 1 < 1253221428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print "Just another", ((0 and " Ruby ") or ("Pyt" + "hon" or " Perl ")), "hacker.\n", < 1253221428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1253221428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1253221458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works in python 2.6 though < 1253221491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with parantheses it works in python3, but not python2 < 1253221499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1: < 1253221501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print("Just another", ((0 and " Ruby ") or ("Pyt" + "hon" or " Perl ")), "hacker.\n",) < 1253221501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just another Python hacker. < 1253221504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6: < 1253221508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print("Just another", ((0 and " Ruby ") or ("Pyt" + "hon" or " Perl ")), "hacker.\n",) < 1253221508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('Just another', 'Python', 'hacker.\n') < 1253221534 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a two-liner. < 1253221537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough ruby or perl to work out how those would work < 1253221549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the python one finishes already at the first line < 1253221593 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that "" used to be necessary for something but evidently isn't any more < 1253221600 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253221606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nor enough python to work out what boolean expressions + strings do in python :P < 1253221648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well casting to a bool it seems a string is true, so that makes sense < 1253221658 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in all these languages or/and return their true result as the original result, not boolean true < 1253221669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "false && 'foo'" is 'foo' < 1253221669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, aha < 1253221673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, || < 1253221675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway < 1253221677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains a lot < 1253221697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is 0 true in ruby?? < 1253221701 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is < 1253221708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and 1 is then false? < 1253221714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's also true :-P < 1253221717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253221722 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only false and nil are false, everything else is true < 1253221734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that seems a bit trusting < 1253221747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's that < 1253221763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1253221773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that was what is technically known as a joke < 1253221784 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get it < 1253221785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well < 1253221788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah ok < 1253221818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, if it thinks almost everything it is told is true? < 1253221825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that seems a bit trusting and naive < 1253221838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :-P < 1253221860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, almost everything is true in most popular languages < 1253221871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well python and perl makes 0 false it seems < 1253221881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1253221922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, erlang likes to throw exceptions in those cases it seems < 1253221929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4> true and "foo". < 1253221929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** exception error: bad argument < 1253221929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in operator and/2 < 1253221929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : called as true and "foo" < 1253221940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for numeric values < 1253221947 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's rather a feature of scripting-type languages. < 1253221960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is perfectly fine in C though < 1253221972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do ! and so on for pointers and what not < 1253221994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that in C, true && "foo" won't give you "foo". < 1253221994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems empty string in python is false too < 1253222030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but it compiles and doesn't error out in any way < 1253222037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1253222046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, with string constant I'm not 100% sure < 1253222050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it doesn't. Although compilers might warn. < 1253222061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite sure. < 1253222074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what truth value does a string has in C? < 1253222089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets implicitly converted to a pointer, no? < 1253222093 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is then always true. < 1253222106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um, does that apply to string literals? < 1253222112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it does, not sure < 1253222118 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1253222132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC apparently says nothing even with -Wall -W -pedantic. < 1253222153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-W is a deprecated alias for -Wextra < 1253222167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am aware. It is also 5 characters shorter. < 1253222184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good answer < 1253222364 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the Perl bit is probably the only non-obvious thing < 1253222373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? < 1253222380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how does the perl one work? < 1253222387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Python, + concatenates; in Perl, it unsurprisingly adds two numbers :-P < 1253222401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: did you remember -ansi? < 1253222405 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which leads to interpreting "Pyt" and "hon" as numbers < 1253222409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does it do for two numbers then? < 1253222413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :throws an exception? < 1253222421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, but it doesn't make a difference. < 1253222432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, in Perl + casts its arguments to numeric < 1253222440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those strings each have a numeric value of 0 < 1253222443 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since "Pyt" and "hon" are nonnumeric, they both evaluate to 0 < 1253222448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how can they have that? < 1253222453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. since they're not "1" or something. < 1253222453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1253222459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, what numeric value do you think they have? < 1253222472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the numeric and string sides of a value are independent, although it's quite hard to set one and not the other < 1253222474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then you get (0 + 0 or " Perl ") i.e. (0 or " Perl ") i.e. " Perl ". < 1253222475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, adding the ascii codes modulo 256 or something like that < 1253222495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perl wouldn't do something as silly as taht < 1253222500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : actually, the numeric and string sides of a value are independent, although it's quite hard to set one and not the other <-- clarify? < 1253222566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ooh even better. Store the string as a Gödel number < 1253222576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can have a value which casts to a string, and to an unrelated number < 1253222602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: you can have a value which casts to a string, and to an unrelated number <-- still not sure what you mean < 1253222632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like? < 1253222634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> str(29999999999999999999.4) < 1253222634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'3e+19' < 1253222639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> int(29999999999999999999.4) < 1253222639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30000000000000000000L < 1253222666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that L won't be there in python 3 or later) < 1253222666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He means that strings are something like struct String { char* str; int numeric; } < 1253222689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is, somehow, possible to change only one of those fields without affecting the other < 1253222705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mhm, basically a class with overridden cast operators in C++ or similar? < 1253222715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confusing the hell out of anyone reading code using said class < 1253222731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah ok, not really then < 1253222733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse rather < 1253222743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, example? < 1253222751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and that sounds like a bug < 1253222757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: error messages < 1253222773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get an ENOENT or whatever, you get its number casting it to a number, and "No such file or directory" casting to string < 1253222783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm ok, sure, but that sounds like casing exception class to various things tries to yeild useful stuff < 1253222797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, overriding cast code for the error class < 1253222800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no? < 1253222817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't a class (in Perl5, at least) < 1253222822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1253222827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a constant that has different string and numeric values < 1253222837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same but not defined in a consistent framework < 1253222856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is what classes provide, at least the mess is now consistent) < 1253224507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what they're doing for Perl6 < 1253225840 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253227063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253228081 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253228401 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253228523 0 :espenlaub!n=espenlau@HSI-KBW-078-043-179-008.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253228543 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253228547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1253228554 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you? < 1253228591 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD ? < 1253228595 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where from? < 1253228597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just logged on myself < 1253228599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norway < 1253228605 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :germany here < 1253228614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guessed so < 1253228624 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1253228632 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: ident line. < 1253228636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ espenlaub [n=espenlau@HSI-KBW-078-043-179-008.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] joined #esoteric < 1253228657 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.nice. big brother is watching u ;-) < 1253228671 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old are you < 1253228678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, new here? this channel is about esoteric (weird!) programming languages, but we're rarely on topic < 1253228710 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are esoteric programming language, i know html though... < 1253228712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39, i'm one of the oldest here < 1253228759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1253228811 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are very expierenced in speaking esoteric programming languages? < 1253228816 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is lessee < 1253228822 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: Programming language => way to express computer programs. Esoteric programming language means programming language that contains weird (from mainstream point of view) stuff. < 1253228824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+. < 1253228827 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do you usually talk about here if not on topic < 1253228837 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World! < 1253228857 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ilari a bot? < 1253228858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was brainfuck, one of the most famous ones < 1253228863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, fungot is < 1253228863 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ' oh, even mr ron here would rather wash under his arms than heads." < 1253228875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also HackEgo and EgoBot < 1253228884 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of weird stuff should that be? < 1253228893 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a coder? < 1253228930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only amateur < 1253228936 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really dont understand what this is all about < 1253228941 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can u enlighten me < 1253228957 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: Look at the line oerjan wrote. Does it resemble print "Hello, World!" (or close variation thereof) as in almost any mainstream programming language? < 1253228990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ^bf line above was a program in brainfuck, to write "Hello, World!". fungot then ran the program (^ is the prefix that bot uses) < 1253228991 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there was the city of ephebe surrounded them. dogs barked. somewhere a cat fnord' rincewind began, trying again with another straw.) you bastard looked down at his feet. < 1253229022 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright. < 1253229024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also responds if you mention its name. it is itself written in an esoteric language, befunge < 1253229033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1253229033 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot < 1253229083 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this something like an elite science only chosen people are able to handle with < 1253229111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... insane people < 1253229133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are all mad here < 1253229201 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: Brainfuck is really simple language. It has 8 operations: '>': Move to next memory cell. '<': move to previous memory cell. '+': Increment value in current cell, '-': decrement value in current cell. ',': read character from keyboard and store to current cell. '.' write current cell as character to screen. '['. If current cell is zero, jump to corresponding ']'. ']': If current cell is nonzero, jump to corresponding '['. Otherw < 1253229206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the esoteric languages are made to be incomprehensible or at least hard to read. they're like puzzles to code in, really < 1253229207 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better: just different mind-aliented people < 1253229217 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That broke: ...cell is nonzero, jump to corresponding '['. Otherwise execute each character in order until end of program is hit. All execpt those 8 characters are ignored. < 1253229263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some like brainfuck are incomprehensible because their basic commands are ridiculously simple < 1253229299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those languages have an advantage, though: they are rather easy to compile to. < 1253229340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Brainfuck is a really easy target for making a higher-level language around) < 1253229377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am conflicted re fungot's ^source; on one hand, the gitweb link points to something you can use to (theoretically) get it up-and-running; on the other hand, it doesn't really have the immediate visual impact the actual main source file -- http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob_plain/HEAD:/fungot.b98 -- has. < 1253229378 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ' well done.' granny handed him his badge, swear him in, and he was suddenly very, very hard." the clown demanded. " you don't use it,' said < 1253229387 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: If you want some articles, there's "Friday pathological programming"-series in blog named "Good Math, Bad Math". < 1253229408 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: That stuff is about esoteric programming languages. < 1253229483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.scienceblogs.com/goodmath -- This blog. < 1253229486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an old series from 2006-2007, but the blog owner is doing a partial rerun now < 1253229497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def source ul (http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98)S < 1253229497 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1253229512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^save < 1253229570 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: Some esoteric languages are totally crazy. Like ones based on laying tiles. Or other languages with no concept of where one is in program. < 1253229572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's a good compromise. Though the ^save didn't take. Uppity bot refuses to obey. < 1253229575 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is somekind of a media communication development < 1253229577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ul is underload, another ridiculously simple language < 1253229592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: i don't know what you mean < 1253229638 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the artificial creation of new languages only used in a virtural dimension < 1253229666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: anyway when we're not on topic there is a lot of talk about coding and computers and other geek stuff < 1253229671 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why do you think you are mad? alice in wonderland < 1253229684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: i just like that quote :) < 1253229692 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thats all? < 1253229701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for the exact text < 1253229719 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: It takes some madness to be able to design mind-bending programming language (which is by defintion esoteric). < 1253229724 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heilandsack < 1253229743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.'But I don.t want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked. < 1253229743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Oh, you can.t help that,' said the Cat. 'We.re all mad here. I.m mad. You.re mad.' < 1253229746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'How do you know I.m mad?' said Alice. < 1253229749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'You must be,. said the Cat. 'or you wouldn.t have come here.'. < 1253229757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn unicode characters again < 1253229768 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool dialog < 1253229774 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cat must be right < 1253229781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1253229793 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just hang out in this chat for geek stuff and for esoteric stuff? < 1253229807 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not for esoteric stuff i wanted to say < 1253229826 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a hack < 1253229834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: also, someone officially declared me insane after i wrote an interpreter for unlambda (an esoteric language) in INTERCAL (another one) < 1253229847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, privately actually) < 1253229862 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can handle that with your own? < 1253229920 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it seems just a little bit crazy and isolated beening declared as an insane person by others < 1253229926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i get in the mood. it doesn't happen _that_ often... < 1253229948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espenlaub: well mind you this other person was also an esoteric language person < 1253229979 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what type of application are you programming with esoter. language? < 1253229990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly ones < 1253229992 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One esoteric programming language I have coded interpretter for: It starts with empty string. At each step it places 0s, 1s, is or os at end of string, avoiding given pattern. If i is placed, it stops to read the keyboard and then spits binary representation of read character into end of string and continues. If o is placed and 8 characters before it are binary, it writes that as character to screen. Program halts when string can't be ext < 1253230004 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...character to screen. Program halts when string can't be extended anymore without violating the pattern given. < 1253230040 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pattern is given as context-free grammar. < 1253230050 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many commands has the language? < 1253230072 0 :espenlaub!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://irc2go.com/" < 1253230087 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the 0s and 1s written when i is placed ignore the pattern given. < 1253230167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a regex pattern, or just a single string? < 1253230185 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context free grammar. Its more powerful than (standard) regex. < 1253230190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1253230216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess it chooses non-deterministically at each step? < 1253230225 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253230244 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, randomly if it has multiple choices. < 1253230288 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider that random choice and nondeterministic choice to be the same thing. < 1253230309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a certain overlap... < 1253230353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since it can halt, i take it that it doesn't consider more than one character at a time to extend with? < 1253230371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the character added can destroy the ability to go further < 1253230380 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, only considers single character at time (except of course that i spamming 8 at time). < 1253230413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is it tc? :) < 1253230447 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as said, i ignores the pattern. If after it spams the 8 chaaracters the string matches the pattern, the program continues. < 1253230466 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is TC. < 1253230519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the complement of a context-free language is not necessary context-free, hm < 1253230567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is not a pattern you stay within < 1253230594 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was inspired by some undecidable problem involving context free grammars. < 1253230618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so it was designed to be undecidable and so probably tc? < 1253230693 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it was about finding string that given CFG doesn't generate. < 1253230715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253230739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1253230778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does not obviously give tc though, since you are choosing randomly at each step < 1253230811 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing the pattern in suitable manner, you can force it to be deterministic. < 1253230814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you are not doing your utmost for finding such a non-generating string < 1253230826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but does it stay undecidable then? < 1253230857 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, when designing the language, I had to figure out how to make it only consider one character at time. < 1253230865 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253230922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pattern takes the _whole_ string though, it's not about initial substrings (since otherwise ignoring the pattern at i would not help) < 1253230933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume < 1253230947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the whole string at the current step < 1253230966 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be possible to match all false executions of given turing machine. < 1253231021 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The i is input operation. o is output. They have role analogous to brainfuck , and . < 1253231038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for tc it needs to emulate the turing machine deterministally though < 1253231069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait now i vaguely recall something < 1253231169 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i and o probably won't change its computational class. < 1253231187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can embed the history of running of a turing machine in a string so that matching two context-free languages ensure the history is correct < 1253231201 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1253231248 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253231277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was how a book i browsed proved that some problem about context-free languages was undecidable < 1253231303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall the rest of the details though < 1253231381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe you can also do that with avoiding a single cfg, is that how your language is intended? < 1253231418 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253231421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using the cfg to detect mismatches in the history < 1253231465 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have multiple CFGs that all detect false executions, you can take their union. < 1253231502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the history is the steps of the turing machine computation, with odd and even steps reversed. that way you can look at consecutive pairs of steps and analyze them. i think. < 1253231527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure how much i'm remembering and how much i'm reconstructing here :) < 1253231613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, now it seems obvious to me this can be done < 1253231670 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea was to encode state, symbol, new state, new symbol and movement for each step. Then false executions include: Wrong steps, states not matching in consequtive operations and symbols not matching in same positions (finding same positions is like the "brace language"). < 1253231701 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, one has to arrange the first state and symbol as well. Then the other rules can take over. < 1253231713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253231854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just got an IRC death threat < 1253231866 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reference interpretter probably couldn't execute 99 bottles of beer, since it would take too much memory and CPU... < 1253231896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you need the new state and new symbol together with the old one, though, just make the matching of those in consecutive pairs part of the "brace language" thing < 1253231916 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably can be simplified... < 1253231952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the brace language thing was why i said/recalled that consecutive steps needed to be encoded reversed from each other) < 1253231957 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reference interpretter undergone quite much optimization. The first versions took something like 12 seconds to execute "Hello, World!". The later versions only ~40ms. < 1253232026 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-086-102.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253232035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right you need to recheck the _whole_ string at each step unless being clever... < 1253232083 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the program uses the generic algorithm (at least the first version used). Its tractable, but... < 1253232113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait i'm thinking somehow backwards at this, it's _mismatches_ one should find not matches < 1253232114 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter versions only store the entries that match. This speeds up the matching a lot. < 1253232188 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, the interpretter did the matching tentatively against all four, and then picked one of them and added it to main tables. < 1253232471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall reading that at least the earley parser gets more efficient if the grammar has less ambiguity, being O(n) if it's actually LR(1) for example < 1253232516 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It keeps table of all subsequences of committed characters that match a production. < 1253232528 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253232553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, only those that can possibly fit at that point (for earley) < 1253232734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't the simplest to implement though iirc (never really tried myself) < 1253232812 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reference implementation uses CYK algorithm. < 1253232909 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the symbol table is treated as sparse (big memory savings and big speedup). < 1253233131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however CYK requires you to know the whole string in advance, doesn't it, at least in the version the wikipedia pseudocode shows < 1253233166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you cannot cache information that is still relevant when adding the next character < 1253233167 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It matches against all four candidates in each step (and then commits one of the characters). < 1253233189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you could adjust it to do it though < 1253233211 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One subsequence has gotten fixed, the symbols matching it stay fixed. < 1253233219 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*once < 1253233229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1253233337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.moock.org/ gotta love the decorative design < 1253233340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, it's horrible < 1253233362 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could have, you know, ROTATED the thing at least so it's readable < 1253233600 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-086-102.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253235759 0 :Patashu!n=Patashu@c122-106-162-185.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253236969 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253237506 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lonelydino.com/?id=39 Hahahilarity! < 1253238075 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253239082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know? The https means your personal information is blocked! It's true, I read it in a newspaper clipping that was on the wall of my college's Computer Information Systems building! < 1253239109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEAT < 1253239297 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quote from my book on management: < 1253239345 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cellular phone companies are hustling to find ways to compete with iPhone's amazing touch screen and its ability to watch YouTube through a WiFi network. This has scared broadband companies who wonder if iPhone will make them irrelevant one day soon." < 1253240205 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253242157 0 :amca!n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253242871 0 :amca_!n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253243301 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253243398 0 :amca_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :amca < 1253244136 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253244628 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253244657 0 :amca!n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253244944 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253245727 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1253245752 0 :amca!n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253246068 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Farewell" < 1253247554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253247571 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253247586 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what just happened? < 1253247598 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was there a netsplit? < 1253247660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i noticed < 1253247683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:19 = Sgeo [n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) < 1253248265 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253249866 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253251810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253255894 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1253256761 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253257627 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-97-40.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253260050 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-20-254.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253260799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253260800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253261025 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253262234 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253263245 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253263462 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253264837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253275557 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B135339.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253275903 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253278955 0 :jix!n=jix@95.33.86.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253279576 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-ufxfizjofzudqcoz JOIN :#esoteric < 1253281075 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253281102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have the flu. :( < 1253281443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays you never know if it's the flu or THE flu. < 1253281467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, I don't know if it is just a bad cold or the flu. 38.5 in temperature < 1253281478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that was a Swedishism I think < 1253281505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrong preposition in English) < 1253281606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did 38.4 degrees or so last weekend, but it's mostly gone now. One of the other people working in this room didn't come to work today, though, so maybe I just passed it on. < 1253282513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha at iwc today < 1253282515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really great < 1253286113 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Patashu/SteampunkX - MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2 ." < 1253286508 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253286747 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253286841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just noticed there is a rather hard to notice sticker on the base of my monitor, that ways "works with windows vista"... a bit strange since it is a TFT with only VGA connection. How could it *not* work? < 1253286907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for people who don't know that it obviously works, sticker or no. < 1253286917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253287508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it presumably works with Linux too < 1253287530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... but surely, what matters is the video card in the computer it's linking to, not the OS? < 1253287769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you tell the difference between a normal cold and the flu < 1253287814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, VGA is a standard. So as long as you have that or a DVI->VGA converter... < 1253287830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC flu leaves you more or less immobile and unwilling to do anything, whereas you can live through a cold < 1253287831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about displayport, hdmi and so on < 1253287841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm thinking of computers so old that they don't have VGA ports < 1253287847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, what about in the early stages < 1253287850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the BBC Micro I used to have < 1253287863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which had just a TV-encoded output < 1253287876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think those people who know about them nowdays will know what the sticker really means :P < 1253287914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines trying to run Vista on a BBC Micro B < 1253287916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't work at all < 1253287920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus I doubt the sticker will be false, since I doubt that system could run vista < 1253287924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in a emulator < 1253287942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, it wouldn't have any available screen resolutions that Vista would be able to comprehend < 1253287967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanted to go as high as 16 colours, the screen res was something awful like 160x120 < 1253287977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you could get a better screen res by reducing the colour depth < 1253287988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was it below 640x480? < 1253287993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easily < 1253287997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1253288015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the resolution during boot of modern PCs? < 1253288020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that iirc? < 1253288030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640x480's easily enough for text < 1253288034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't care about the font < 1253288051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes, but I meant, isn't that what is used during bios and such even on modern PCs? < 1253288057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it some even lower res? < 1253288072 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is 640x480 but I'm not sure < 1253288093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says 640x256 was the best resolution it could get < 1253288123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would be rather... widescreen? < 1253288146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was 640x256 for a 2-colour display (black and one other) < 1253288156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "the other one"? < 1253288156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could double the colour choice by halving the horizontal resolution < 1253288177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for instance, 320x256 gave you 4 colours, 160x256 gave you eight < 1253288200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, those are some weird shaped pixels < 1253288208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still rectangular < 1253288214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear in mind that this was aiming for a TV screen < 1253288220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not even close to square < 1253288231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the horizontal length of pixels is determined by the length of time you send the signal for < 1253288243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the standard TV protocol, length of time = distance horizontally < 1253288244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.. < 1253288323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were some weird resolutions for the text modes, too < 1253288338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an 80x25 text terminal would be 640x200 in terms of pixels < 1253288338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, those were for graphics? < 1253288342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253288343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1253288356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in the text mode the hardware draw the text rather than the software? < 1253288359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253288369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why? < 1253288370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back then, hardware was cheap in comparison to REM < 1253288372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*RAM < 1253288378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253288401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps DRAM hadn't been invented at the time, or perhaps there was some other reason < 1253288457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... DRAM became practical around 1973, the BBC Micro dates from the 1980s < 1253288464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's possible that it wasn't in common use in computers then < 1253288472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that prices hadn't come down < 1253288482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SRAM, which is a lot more obvious of a design, is rather expensive even nowadays < 1253288498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about being common < 1253288516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any guess when SSD may be more common than harddrives? < 1253288537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least be equal or better in price, capacity and speed. < 1253288548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I don't know < 1253288554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my guess is it won't take too long < 1253288561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long did USB sticks take to overtake CDs? < 1253288569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they haven't yet? < 1253288572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it'll be similar < 1253288575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have they? < 1253288578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in the UK they seem to have < 1253288597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDs are still used for music bought in shops, and installation media < 1253288599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not for much else < 1253288616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so CDs have pretty much become an archival format rather than an everyday sort of thing < 1253288623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, games and software is sold on a) usb sticks b) cd/dvd c) floppies d) tapes < 1253288626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and installation media's more commonly DVD nowadays) < 1253288640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DVDs, but installation media isn't what I was thinking of < 1253288649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of consumer use < 1253288654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what else was dvd and cd ever commonly used for? < 1253288662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burning iso images for installing linux yes < 1253288666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: file transfer? backups? < 1253288674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot media, as you say < 1253288674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, network? < 1253288692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: file transfer via network isn't all that common, unless you have Internet access < 1253288704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I have at least one computer that can't boot from usb < 1253288710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even in buisness and such, floppy disks or CDs used to be more common than network transfer < 1253288713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one I'm sure can, the third I'm not sure about < 1253288716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays it's all USB stick < 1253288718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sticks < 1253288725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since I'm using it atm, I can't easily check in bios < 1253288725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people can't be bothered to learn how to work the network transfer < 1253288761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tend to scp stuff I need to move around, or if it is really large transfer, nfs (only over trusted lan obviously) < 1253288785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think you're unusual in that respect; the sort of people who inhabit #esoteric understand networks < 1253288788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most people don't < 1253288805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I use nfs while I'm at university, but most people use USB sticks < 1253288806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't understand networks. routing tables is black magic to me < 1253288813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if for ipv6 < 1253288820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you understand you can send information over them, rather than just looking at web pages < 1253288839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes? But lots of people work at offices with network printers. < 1253288855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have shared profiles over network < 1253288865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all in windows management hell < 1253288868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they don't understand how the network printers work, they just know they have to select certain settings in the dialog boxes < 1253288886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as for the shared profiles, nearly every non-student with one I know doesn't know how they work or what they are < 1253288893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, they tend to be unused < 1253288903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people just associate the username/password with the machine < 1253288912 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253288912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and save files to the machine not the profile < 1253288974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, the computers for the technical/natural science courses at uni are set up a bit strange, you have "my documents" on the network. But the desktop is on the local computer, and is cleaned when you log out. On the other hand you have several GB of "free" storage there, while the persistent storage area is something like 100 MB < 1253288993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much the same here < 1253288994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all run English win xp pro btw < 1253288998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it must be saner to maintain < 1253289013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have much of an idea of what administrating Windows networks is like < 1253289026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although on several occasions, technicians have had to walk around and make the same change to every computer on the network manually < 1253289036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because their ssh-equivalents didn't work for what they wanted to do < 1253289045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I guess the tech/natural sience ppl sometimes needs *LOTS* of temporary storage. < 1253289054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike most other parts of the uni < 1253289094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's something much simpler than that I think; lots of things save on the desktop by default so it has to be writeable, and you get lots of helpdesk calls when the desktop isn't the same every time you log in < 1253289098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to be wiped when you log out < 1253289106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw on the computer I used a few days ago there was over 200 GB free on desktop < 1253289116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computers have large hard drives, presumably < 1253289128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for any particularly good reason, just because those were the specs they were persuaded to buy < 1253289142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes, since there was nearly equal amount used by lots of apps, like chem lab apps and what not. < 1253289162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it was 450 GB disk < 1253289174 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253289180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interesting to note is that computers at other parts of the uni are *much* weaker < 1253289201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often small cases, that look like it could be a thin client (they aren't quite that though) < 1253289207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it/they/ < 1253289236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is just in the lab rooms that they are that overpowered < 1253289571 0 :inc0!n=inc0@anl28.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1253289739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, know any non-rougelike (RPG is fine!), non-strategy open source game with a very non-linear/open-ended game world? < 1253289761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253289764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1253289823 0 :inc0!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253290409 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-91-27.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253290792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253290931 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1253291092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1253291114 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1253294645 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lawlabeethewallaby.com/ < 1253294850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it worth it? < 1253295843 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253296468 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253296578 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253297516 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-217.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253299521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, testing thing after bouncer upgrade < 1253299522 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they made a noise like someone trying to organise yet another bucket chain from the river and it was. < 1253299525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good works < 1253299546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was seeing +/- at start of line when I shouldn't (since client handles it) < 1253299547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1253302918 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253310537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc! < 1253311004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our work-workstations have around 160G disks, of which 130G is mounted at /users/ and usable for any large data files you only need locally. It generally isn't so very useful disk space since it's not visible from the computing cluster, unlike the NFS shares. < 1253311929 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253311988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read it hours ago ;D < 1253312029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks he finally realized the logic he was missing for solving killer sudoku puzzles < 1253312707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1253312776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realized you can use the sum of cages to deduce sums of remaining regions even if you don't know the actual content < 1253312780 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-20-254.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253312816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until now i had only considered the sum of a cage in isolation, to deduce what could be inside it < 1253312834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(notation from simon tatham's puzzle help) < 1253312896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sudoku is called "solo" in the tatham puzzle collection, btw) < 1253312948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(killer is one of the type options for it) < 1253313014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw if you don't know what killer sudoku is, it's like sudoku except you get no initial cell values - instead you get an additional division into "cages", and are given the sum of the values in each cage < 1253313049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yargh < 1253313055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cages are irregularly shaped, unlike the sudoku regions < 1253313058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering why sums were relevant in sudoku... < 1253313064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :) < 1253314186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION relinks http://lawlabeethewallaby.com/ < 1253314212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't get what was so funny about it the first time < 1253314248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there something more than the picture there? < 1253314263 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reiterate: was it worth it? < 1253314396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, are you trying to make up a new meme? If so: fail < 1253314414 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm just trying to assert my status as Lawlabee the Wallaby :P < 1253314428 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253314432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's not funny, it's just random. It's Lawlabee the Wallaby! < 1253314436 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Absolutely. < 1253314449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever you say < 1253314646 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-115.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253314708 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253314721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: now would you really want to be a wallaby while there is a Warrigal around? < 1253314772 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, he's imitating me. < 1253314781 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, that's a good thing. < 1253314880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, only the warrigal is a carnivore, afaik. < 1253314964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm mind you, when considering cartoon animals that may not be an advantage < 1253315040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of animal is a "warrigal"? < 1253315057 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: whatever language you speak, I bet the word for it in your language is "dingo". < 1253315082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253315082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1253315112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language uses "Warrigal" then? < 1253315116 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, Warrigal did eat your baby. < 1253315131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Australian English. < 1253315133 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I did so for a very good reason. < 1253315145 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Dharruk. < 1253315145 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253315150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably originating from some Aboriginal... yeah, that then. < 1253315174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Australian English shouldn't be classified as English < 1253315182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too different < 1253315188 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha < 1253315190 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American English shouldn't be classified as English < 1253315191 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too crap < 1253315213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for anyone disagreeing: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/podcasts/IrregularPodcast007.mp3 < 1253315220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, agreed! < 1253315222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely < 1253315223 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Y'all just makin' fun of 'mericans cuz we ain't wastin' our time wit your shit grammar. < 1253315242 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's part of it. < 1253315253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, and your fuck up spelling too < 1253315278 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We just love zees more than brits because "zed" sounds so stupid. < 1253315295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, "zed"? < 1253315301 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sound stupid. < 1253315309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the name for the letter z? < 1253315318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue what zees are < 1253315329 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Zee" is the other name for the letter z. < 1253315331 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You see that airplane flying over your head? My joke is on that airplane. < 1253315331 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 'Merican for z. < 1253315338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1253315354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wth? < 1253315357 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the major spelling differences between British and American English is that we use more zees. Clearly this is because "zee" sounds better than "zed". < 1253315358 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name that rhymes with "gee", "pee", and "vee", so as not to give the alphabet song an anticlimactic ending. < 1253315361 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know. < 1253315369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what do you mean with airplane? < 1253315373 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1253315384 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: MY META-JOKE IS ALSO ON THAT FUCKING AIRPLANE < 1253315395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do happen to live rather close to an airport, just 15 km or so < 1253315400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so aircrafts often pass overhead here < 1253315405 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you familiar with the idiom "to be over someone's head"? < 1253315406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly SAS and Lufthansa iirc < 1253315417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, not as far as I can remember < 1253315420 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Special Air Service? < 1253315431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elench, Scandinavian Air < 1253315433 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If calculus is over my head, then I do not understand calculus. < 1253315436 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah good < 1253315457 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: I'd be slightly disturbed if you were getting significant traffic from my first guess < 1253315459 0 :jix!n=jix@95.33.80.29 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253315473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scandinavian Airlines System, an airline company in Denmark, Norway and Sweden" < 1253315476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what Wikipedia says < 1253315491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If calculus is over my head, then I do not understand calculus. <-- I pitty you < 1253315553 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it means to say that something is over someone's head; it means that they don't understand it. < 1253315565 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253315575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, right < 1253315611 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, anyone who does not speak English as it is written in broad transcriptions speaks it wrong. < 1253315627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, in what transcriptions? < 1253315646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understood each word there, just not the whole < 1253315657 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Broad transcription" is a technical term. < 1253315664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, meaning? < 1253315712 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A broad transcription of a word is, essentially, a representation of its phonemes. < 1253315733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, oh, like in a dictionary? < 1253315733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the IPA thingy < 1253315735 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1253315739 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in the entire phase space of its possible pronunciations? < 1253315748 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/possible/valid/ < 1253315754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elench, calculate it's size! < 1253315762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253315765 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no thanks < 1253315765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be its < 1253315765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1253315775 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be its < 1253315786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elench, it would be interesting to find out if it is finite or infinite < 1253315806 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's infinate < 1253315809 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So something like /flɔr/ or /əˈpɪɹ/. < 1253315813 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, it's analogue < 1253315866 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no good reason for using r in the first of those and ɹ for the second; for English; they're precisely the same thing. I would have said /əˈpɪr/ if I had noticed. < 1253315868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, mind you, I can't easily read that without checking a reference < 1253315875 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1253315923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, and right now, what with having flu/bad cold (not yet known which) I can't be bothered to check that < 1253315937 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I would say that the main defining feature of a broad transcription is that it can be more or less independent of accent. < 1253315958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, huh how? < 1253315964 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :British people say /flɔr/ and /əˈpɪr/ even though they don't say [r] at the end. < 1253315981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, the dictionaries I have seen sometimes list two or more transcriptions < 1253316004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, what words are those examples? < 1253316011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floor? < 1253316012 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Floor" and "appear". < 1253316016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1253316052 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.237.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253316107 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Broad transcriptions don't reflect the actual sounds; they just reflect what people feel like they're saying. < 1253316141 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253316196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, well, even so, sometimes they differ quite a lot < 1253316220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo yo yo. < 1253316230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1253316239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed AnMaster i did not die < 1253316250 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A British accent takes /flɔr/ and gives you [flɔː], and takes /əˈpɪr/ and gives you [əˈpʰɪə]; the things in brackets are the actual sounds. < 1253316254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, me coughs at ehird < 1253316269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, flu time! < 1253316281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only worth being scared about if it comes from a pig. < 1253316320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I got it from a student at uni with quite a weird shaped nose < 1253316334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:54:03 also what's the opposite of nodding, i don't know it in any language < 1253316334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1253316336 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes /ˈiːhərd/ and gives you [ˈiːhəd]. Not that that matters. < 1253316346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shaking your head? < 1253316351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you're having sex with them it doesn't matter what shape their nose is, you're going to catch the flu < 1253316359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must learn these things. < 1253316381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, So must your mom < 1253316408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should always wear a nose condom. < 1253316483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Yeah, your mom seemed to have a fetishism for that! Very strange. < 1253316490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fetishism. < 1253316498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typoed maybe < 1253316516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nop < 1253316516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to reorientate again < 1253316538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it was *she* who had it, not me. Guess while I'm no longer in UK! < 1253316552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:29:11 (i promise i'll stop being sexist when i see the first female mathematician that doesn't suck) < 1253316552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's prolly a decent trans mathematician < 1253316558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also prolly a decent woman mathematician, but :P < 1253316570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Most people would just say, you know, "fetish". < 1253316575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 03:29:11 (i promise i'll stop being sexist when i see the first female mathematician that doesn't suck) <-- Ada Lovelace? (sp?) < 1253316609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lovelace wasn't a mathematician. < 1253316622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm true, related tough < 1253316630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She basically made program traces of whatever engine programs in her head using Babbage's definition. < 1253316639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whatever engine) programs, that is. < 1253316668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah... I got stuck parsing that < 1253316679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ditto. < 1253316686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but you wrote it? < 1253316740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Categories: 1815 births | 1852 deaths | 19th-century mathematicians | Ada programming language | Byron family | Computer pioneers | Daughters of barons | English computer programmers | English countesses | English mathematicians | English scientists | English women writers | Lord Byron | Women computer scientists | Women engineers | Women mathematicians | Women of the Victorian era | 19th-century wome < 1253316740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n writers | Accidental human deaths in England < 1253316744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's from wikipedia < 1253316751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may not be accurate < 1253316752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1253316786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stumbled on re-reading. < 1253316810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they seem to consider her a mathematician, as well a programming language < 1253316836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok... what about Sophie Germain? < 1253316839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Categories are "things about X", not "things describable as X". Well, they're both. < 1253316858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry I forgot < 1253316887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, don't let a joke get in the way of pedanticism seems to be your motto; I might as well try it out. < 1253316922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now there is no way you can't argue that you aren't a hypocrite (and so am I here :P) < 1253316975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that I freely admit I'm a hypocrite. :P < 1253317029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok that is a nice way out < 1253317359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:40:42 imconvert -size 84622x1 -depth 8 r:- -channel R -fx "p{i+20*sin(i/50),j}" r:- < 1253317361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute. < 1253317374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, old. that was quite some time ago < 1253317403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also quoted oklopol from the same day. < 1253317407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm logreading the things I missed. < 1253317418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was quite some time agoa < 1253317420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ago* < 1253317427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wasn't aware it was same day < 1253317457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:00:16 I finally figured out how to convince automake to do precompiled headers! < 1253317457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:00:23 It's hideous, but it works! < 1253317457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1253317457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:00:16 […] automake […] < 1253317458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:00:23 […] hideous […] < 1253317458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1253317510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:12:32 one of the dummy files is getting distributed because I can't but it in nodist_SOURCES or else it gets built after the rest of the project < 1253317510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, auto*… people sure do delight in inventing nonexistent problems. < 1253317526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto* works pretty well once set up correctly < 1253317533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but setting it up in the first place is a pain < 1253317562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be the only person who tries to avoid wasting so much time solving problems that don't exist. < 1253317577 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253317627 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday I played D&D. This was the first time that the *PAGE NUMBERS* had a significant effect on the game! I never thought it was possible, but the strategy of this game is complex and you would learn new things about it a lot. < 1253317652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Diary, today I started prefixing all of zzo38's lines mentally with < 1253317692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with what? < 1253317694 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1253317713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Whoosh < 1253317730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh it wasn't just a cut off line < 1253317732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253317796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how can the page numbers matter? < 1253317833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, because of alphabetal orders < 1253317848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to transform into some strong creature, so I did so and found CHUUL < 1253317857 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was near a page number near the beginning < 1253317871 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it helps in other ways, too, with what selection is made < 1253317986 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chuul < 1253317992 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is chuul < 1253318002 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the book < 1253318017 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entirely correct yet useless < 1253318023 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean < 1253318148 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHUUL: Like some large insect or monstrous crustacean, the creature rises from the still pool, its pincerlike claws snapping angrily as torchlight reflects off its mottled, armored carapace. Its small dark eyes fix you with a hungry stare, and the tentacles dripping from its mouth squirm excitedly as it emerges from the water. < 1253318157 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the italic descrpition in the book. < 1253318201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reads like some sort of horrible, horrible tenticle tentacle rape erotica. < 1253318246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you read much such to be able to compare? < 1253318249 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's just the description. < 1253318259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That thought hit me about three seconds before you said that < 1253318261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1253318262 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't rape or erotica. < 1253318269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./; seems I haven't got any better at typing < 1253318275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I know, but the imagery in that last sentence, eww. < 1253318386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. < 1253318394 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253318421 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the things listed there don't necessarily happen all the time. Like, the part about the water and the "fix you with a hungry stare" don't necessarily apply if it is the result of a transformation. < 1253318428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's reassuring! < 1253318615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night -> < 1253318745 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They is a mixed of cristacean, insect, and serpent. They have claws, and yes there is tentacles in their mouth. But mostly I selected this one there is STR 20, but other things can help too, speed size attack armor class, type "Large Aberration (Aquatic)". You do not have to live only in the water. < 1253318772 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to push over an altar, actually. (I thought something we were looking for was underneath the altar) < 1253318772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:00:16 Like, you mean just smash everything? < 1253318773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:00:44 Yes. < 1253318773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253318783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some inbetween comments elided for humour) < 1253318792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, we didn't find that, but we did found three plain silver rings. < 1253318853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One NPC said "We need to find the sword in here to return it to the king, now, where is it hidden?" I say, "Well, obviously it is underneath the altar. We just need to move the altar." < 1253318911 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brother had some good ideas too, his character is a human ninja, and he decided to go to ethereal plane to see where is the door of the castle, to see if it is in the ethereal plane. It is half-way in, I don't know why. < 1253318930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see into the material plane from the ethereal < 1253318935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not interact with it < 1253318948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I know all the rules about the ethereal plane. < 1253318967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, castles are generally useless if ethereal ttravel exists < 1253318980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's the food on the ethereal plane? < 1253318984 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, something strange happened, the castle is half way into the ethereal plane and half way into the material plane, which is a bit weird. However, dimension dooring into the castle it is just like normal inside < 1253318986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't any, IIRC < 1253318986 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253318987 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253318987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly empty < 1253319003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The travel better be damn quick or I'll stick to first class. < 1253319005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D castle-makers rarely take the physics of the world into account... < 1253319125 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, ninja can go to ethereal plane for one round, just by a special ability. < 1253319132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sof unny. < 1253319134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so funny < 1253319454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8259154.stm < 1253319495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I know that one already < 1253319496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the BBC are trying to punish set top boxes based on Linux by encrypting the programming list for their HD content since it's illegal to encrypt the content... < 1253319500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's more complicated than the article makes it < 1253319512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if the BBC say they're doing something I'm sure they are :P < 1253319801 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253320354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:44:27 "Something else you should know is that they are also very honest people whereas you rarely won't get any lies from them because of their honesty." < 1253320354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading the article Dating People With Aspergers, I see < 1253320480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very hard for someone with Asperger's to understand that a lie might be the best course of action < 1253320532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was commenting on the awkwardness of the grammar; I just googled it to find the source and found it amusing < 1253320558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that has an incorrect double negative, I think < 1253320566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mean "rarely will" or "mostly won't" < 1253320588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although fwiw if asperger's does actually refer to one atomic, well-defined condition and my tentative diagnosis of it by a professional is correct (both of which I doubt) then I find the sentence to be bullshit < 1253320630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like saying they're more principled/ethical and would avoid lying in almost all cases would probably be more accurate < 1253320633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diagosing asperger's is hard < 1253320648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I've been diagnosed with it too; most of this channel probably has < 1253320678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been diagnosed with it as something officially delivered to me, just almost-certainly-probably but I'm fairly sure there'll be a medical record somewhere denoting "Aspergers". < 1253320721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to me that society was looking for a way to go "there, all the nerds actually do have something wrong with them", found the work of Asperger and warped and muddied its definition sufficiently to work. < 1253320762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253320772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of Asperger's diagnoses has gone up massively recently < 1253320782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's an increase in misdiagnoses, rather than an increase in the syndrome < 1253320793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Asperger, too. < 1253320840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for a sufficiently wide definition of recently I agree < 1253320847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the order of decades < 1253320853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253320902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that with some of the definitions that go around, you need Asperger's Syndrome to be any good at programming < 1253320905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read the original work but I doubt it says anything like "anyone intelligent, focused on one subject and socially reclusive has a different brain structure" < 1253320912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agreed < 1253320934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although one thing I do find interesting is that one of the "symptoms" is being unusually annoyed by high-pitch noises < 1253320946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous < 1253320947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would have no obvious correlation to the other commonly-stated traits, yet it's ture of me < 1253320951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*true of me < 1253320958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything it follows from being attentive < 1253320963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having good senses < 1253320980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If you are on, can you do something compiling a program for me? < 1253320985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, even more annoying than the professional misdiagnoses are when people self-diagnose it < 1253321005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's easy enough to get yourself professionally diagnosed with a meaningless label, you don't have to do it yourself... < 1253321006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find I'm normally pretty good at detecting people who other people would diagnose as Asperger's < 1253321021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster and zzo38, for instance, are pretty obvious candidates to have the meaningless label in question applied to them < 1253321024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you, I'm not so sure < 1253321039 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do I write a idea to ImageMagick? I have a few suggestions for their software. < 1253321045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's probably more obvious in person < 1253321053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Don't; try telling the GraphicsMagick folk. < 1253321069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ImageMagick seems a bit dormant, development-wise. Well, GraphicsMagick appears more community-oriented, anyway. < 1253321073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a fork of ImageMagick.) < 1253321109 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have all of the new features of ImageMagick? < 1253321158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actively developed. < 1253321170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably have different syntax or mechanisms, but it's likely. < 1253321187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I read the FAQ, so I can see those things, but not everything. < 1253321208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the rest can be emulated with the existing features. < 1253321275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some ideas I have is, built-in FFT (instead of requiring external), support for loading/saving audio file formats, support more options for raw formats, and support formatted text rendering with masks and bold and stuff like MSE has. < 1253321288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Built-in FFT, aka slow FFT. < 1253321314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audio file formats are probably outside of the project's scope, and I'm not sure they'd make a change that effectively requires them to rename... but it would be fun. < 1253321323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text rendering; doesn't it have that? < 1253321402 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has text rendering, but you can't put formatting codes inside of the text. Also it doesn't support some features similar to MSE, such as symbol-font and masking where the text goes, etc. < 1253321421 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For audio file, it can just load the left channel into the red channel and right channel into the green channel. < 1253321422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: In-band formatting is maybe not very good. < 1253321433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "slow Fast Fourier Transform" is sort-of an oxymoron < 1253321437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know what you mean < 1253321444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: -text 'foo' -bold 'bar' is easier to e.g. pass user-input variables to than -text 'foo \bold{bar}'. < 1253321447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you know of sox? < 1253321453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like ImageMagick but for audio files < 1253321457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sox can't do things like sin(x), can it? < 1253321460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a converter. < 1253321474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I used it to remove mains hum from my recordings < 1253321476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back ages ago < 1253321480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has lots of other transform commands like that < 1253321482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that using a mathematical expression? < 1253321484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like ImageMagick does for images < 1253321497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't using an expression, it was using a generic filter command < 1253321499 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can do a lot of audio processing with ImageMagick already, but only with raw files. < 1253321505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1253321506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:40:42 imconvert -size 84622x1 -depth 8 r:- -channel R -fx "p{i+20*sin(i/50),j}" r:- < 1253321509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it do that? < 1253321553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, adding a sine wave to an image is equivalent to adding a constant tone to a sound < 1253321560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253321566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does sox have such a thing? < 1253321572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm checking the man page now < 1253321594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure sox has many things, but that isn't completely the point. Some things do work better with ImageMagick, anyways. < 1253321611 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command-line I put was for flangering effects, is one thing < 1253321641 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, some other effects are also useful on sound file, blur, normalize, brightness, contrast, saturation, etc < 1253321652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many of the effects in ImageMagick are useful to sound files. But some isn't < 1253321664 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFT is especially useful with sound-file < 1253321668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a neat abstraction. < 1253321669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1253321681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Some Haskell-user types use this as a toy representation of an image: < 1253321687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Image = Float -> Float -> Colour < 1253321698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, an image is a function taking two floats and returning an RGB colour. < 1253321708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or double instead of float. Whatever. < 1253321712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A real of some kind. < 1253321713 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1253321715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, sox has a "synth" feature that lets you add tones to a sound < 1253321715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the interesting thing is, < 1253321717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is continuous < 1253321726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each pixel has infinite subpixels; 0 and 1 has 0.5, 0.25 etc < 1253321734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an image can have an arbitrary amount of detail < 1253321746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to turn it into an actual image file, you sample it at 0,1,2 or 0,0.5,1,1.5 < 1253321751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a "flanger" effect that does flanging without you having to work out the maths < 1253321751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever depth you want < 1253321759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the image gets bigger in pixel size as you sample more, and more detailed < 1253321763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the question I ask you is, < 1253321772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can we apply this to audio, using the audio-as-image idea? < 1253321781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually fractal audio sounds fun < 1253321801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you'd do it to the fourier transform of the audio, rather than to the time-domain sound < 1253321806 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For audio, just make it one-dimensional instead of two-dimensional, and it can work < 1253321807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1253321819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd be fun composing for such a thing < 1253321825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exploring music in more detail by slowing it down < 1253321828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be exactly the same, using the inputs as duration and frequency and the output as intensity < 1253321831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sampling more) < 1253321845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some music programs actually use a similar view for editing music < 1253321850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's simplified < 1253321864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often called "matrix view" or something like that < 1253321881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing with the function-as-images thing is that it's totally lossless editing on bitmaps < 1253321882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but generally they don't draw the overtones to simplify matters, whereas they should < 1253321885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., you can do scaling < 1253321891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never have blocked up pixels or lose any information < 1253321909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like that don't map to the real world, but you can use it as an intermediate form and I find it very interesting < 1253322274 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ImageMagick does have FFT, but it is not built-in and it requires external program < 1253322331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because the external program is better at it. < 1253322334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, maybe patents? < 1253322342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If audio format would be supported in ImageMagick, you would use the DPI operator for sample rates < 1253322482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFTW is now licensed by GNU GPL. < 1253322551 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1253323035 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253323242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: patent != license < 1253323248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if they linked with FFTW, they'd have to use the GPL license < 1253323264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is impossible: they would have to get all contributors, ever, to agree to it; plus the GPL sucks < 1253323468 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I know. < 1253323574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1253323586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: consider that a good FFT is a whole projectful's work < 1253323588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's quite understandable < 1253323611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were using Linux, you could get an FFT program in one command :-P ...well, assuming your distro would include a package manager. < 1253323632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, bad FFTs are pretty easy to write < 1253323646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also bad < 1253323653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I get annoyed at people using "FFT" when they mean "Fourier transform"; the FFT is just one relatively common algorithm to do that < 1253323678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'll do it just to annoy you! < 1253323739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, Emacs' GUI menus really need a redesign... < 1253323764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could be quite useful for not-common-enough-to-remember-but-common-enough-that-searching-is-a-pain tasks and also keybinding discovery, but they're worse than useless as-is < 1253323804 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at the Magic Set Editor codes for rendering text, can it be made with just C instead of C++, though? < 1253323837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you asking the magic set editor team to recode it or just whether it's possible? < 1253323844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the former, that's unlikely; if the latter, almost certainly < 1253323874 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just so I can make it in C, in a separate utility. Some of the other codes I can also use, but I want to use it in C instead of C++ < 1253323915 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some codes in Magic Set Editor I want to take from there, I can make a program licensed by GNU GPL, and make a command-line program with some similar function, but not all. Because I want to make it differently < 1253323941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a surprise. < 1253324456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiver me timbers! it's that day again! < 1253324488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many things I just don't like about MSE, but I would like to render the card in a similar way, but with different input formats and different way of many other things, too < 1253324531 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how many of these codes worked, I look at many of them right now. < 1253325158 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I get a library to do rendering with this text and fonts (including formatting), which can be used in a C program? < 1253325320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253325598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Leopard has a built in hidden preference thing to make it use the Tiger resources. < 1253325604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1253325637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, you can even mix-and-match: I have a Tiger-style window with the Leopard-style window buttons. < 1253325644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, close/minimize/optimize. < 1253325665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Leopard button/etc widgets, I think. < 1253325671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the pinstripe background and windw border/shadow. < 1253325707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also a Leopard window with the Tiger window buttons, which is just ugly. < 1253325869 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253325905 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, if I want to make this render card, maybe I can just use ImageMagick to render the text. But I would need to make up a file to count the size of each characters in the font. < 1253325925 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just use ImageMagick to render everything. < 1253325947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253326400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253326490 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.237.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253326507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the menu this is amusingly working. < 1253326597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also right-click menus. < 1253326946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this is actually working enough to bother keeping, though. < 1253327458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll put this back. < 1253328004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometime. < 1253328311 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253328326 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed the stroker.gb game, but can you contribute 40 more levels to make 256 in total, to make it complete? < 1253328334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked on the other IRC, too. < 1253328703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1253329286 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253329852 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, can someone add more levels to this game? Which channel(s) is better to ask? < 1253330005 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253331154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me... < 1253331160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ubuntu.ly/images/tutorials/2009/ubuntu-hedgehog2.png < 1253331160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/assets/2009/03/ubuntu904-b1-thumb-640xauto-4004.png < 1253331168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or has Ubuntu become uglier over time? < 1253331180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U bet u < 1253331201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day, oerjan will say something that isn't a pun. :P < 1253331288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, srsly. < 1253331502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been working on an Internet accountability program for Linux. The idea is to log the websites you visit, then periodically e-mail that log so someone else. It also writes a log entry when it is shutdown. < 1253331502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Ubuntu Christian Edition forum < 1253331548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"God tells me not to murder people or bad things will happen, so I don't." < 1253331563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The program tells me not to go to porn sites or bad things will happen, so I don't." < 1253331855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people avoid sex for religious reasons, if eir parents aren't forcing it on em? I mean, it's absurd to say that God would be angry at all these teens having sex, and if God doesn't care, what's the point? < 1253331877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's absurd to say that, but no more than the rest of the bible. < 1253331901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the bible say it? If not, does our church say it? If so, then it is so. < 1253331926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Bible clause has exemptions, such as things our church says are metaphorical or things we think are metaphorical or just want to ignore right now. < 1253333594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't suppose you know if it's possible to boot up the Ubuntu install CD telling it not to play the startup sound? < 1253333617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plug in some headphones < 1253333638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that'll be quiet enough :P < 1253333649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's plan b, yes < 1253336596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, unetbootin isn't available for os x < 1253336611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can't plug headphones into a CD burner :P) < 1253338178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: about the headphones, you could use a headphone plug with nothing attached to it to make sure < 1253338186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253338189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will that work? < 1253338193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we actually have one at home, and it does < 1253338195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it'd default < 1253338198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, on a pc, at least < 1253338201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that os < 1253338211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the headphone detection doesn't have anything to do with the OS or the headphones themselves < 1253338219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, it's done by seeing if the headphone jack closes a circuit < 1253338235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one more piece of metal inside the headphone socket than is needed for a connection < 1253338248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's purely mechanical whether sound's directed to the headphones or speakers < 1253338251 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombgirl < 1253338254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even electronic! < 1253338269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253338291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, anyone know how to .iso → USB stick if I can't use unetbootin? < 1253338467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... /me is spoiled by preemptive multitasking < 1253338473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1253338476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when I was writing 16-bit Windows programs, it was all cooperative < 1253338485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Windows, at any rate < 1253338510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so tight infinite loops crashed the computer until I could break out with control-alt-delete < 1253338579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a Yield() system call but I never used it < 1253338590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was deprecated when windows 3.1 came out, at any rate < 1253338597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, it was all about the message loop < 1253338602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thutu-style multitasking < 1253339283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this usb drive has a switch thing that's magnetic; the usb slot retracts if you push it one way < 1253339285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my question is < 1253339289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck do I get this thing out? < 1253339309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds unnecessarily complex for a USB drive < 1253339312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have no idea < 1253339341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a gimmick < 1253339348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the magneticism is keeping it in < 1253339372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can't switch the opener < 1253339437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1253339595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1253339658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even applying as much force as possible just pulling it won't come out < 1253339665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a button? < 1253339670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, just the slider, as I said < 1253339692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the slider is the same component as the usb plug? < 1253339708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-gb&q=sandisk+cruzer&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 < 1253339720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the image below "shopping results"? (took out mouse to try and get to the drive) < 1253339732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing, if you slide the knob to the other end, retracts the plug thing < 1253339736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i can't seem to < 1253339778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the issue is that it won't slide atm < 1253339787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about doing something with it other than sliding, like pushing on it? < 1253339789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if you're meant to take it out that way < 1253339792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's at the very end < 1253339881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing itself comes out one bit but then goes back if you leave go < 1253339882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tiny bit < 1253339887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it works magnetically < 1253340026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1253340087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should open the imac and extract it :P < 1253340103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't care if it didn't have a light on the switcher that fades in and out constantly < 1253340497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's stuck in your laptop? < 1253340514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm curious as to what lead you to the impression that it's a laptop this is stuck in < 1253340517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, err, yes < 1253340520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's clearly incorrect < 1253340530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand it might have been confusing not knowing that :P < 1253340541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it's because desktops are rather large and clunky things to stick USB sticks into < 1253340543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nothing I said implies that, but yes, correct that it is incorrect < 1253340545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed < 1253340552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it beats a noisy cd < 1253340559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not NFS? < 1253340564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to what? < 1253340567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was having this discussion with AnMaster a while ago, actually) < 1253340575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is, it depends on what you're trying to do < 1253340583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install ubuntu < 1253340587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was trying to argue that USB sticks had largely replaced CDs < 1253340591 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253340601 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only mostly, not largely < 1253340601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for the savvy. < 1253340609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: largely's less than mostly, IMO < 1253340621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1253340641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be fine with leaving this stick in for now, but I'd like to get it out later < 1253340674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a really silly idea, have you tried using a software eject command on it? < 1253340685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much the same way you can eject CDs from software? < 1253340687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1253340691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I unmounted it first. < 1253340693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity < 1253340705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it only detects unmounts from Windows? < 1253340719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ridiculous, but not entirely implausible < 1253340721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is largely largely less than mostly, or mostly larger, that's the question < 1253340753 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: power down and wait until the internal battery dies < 1253340763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :power down what, exactly? < 1253340768 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer < 1253340770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you're assuming electromagnet there < 1253340774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that achieve at all? < 1253340777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it's a permanent magnet? < 1253340784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magnet is just that the switch thing < 1253340786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snaps to each side < 1253340801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual mechanism is just that the plug is mounted on the switch thing < 1253340809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no permanent magnet of that strength would be found in consumer electronics < 1253340814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a rather obvious way to make something retractable... < 1253340828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you're on crack, the thing worked before i ever put it in a computer < 1253340828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you'd be surprised < 1253340831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop the magnet thing, guyz < 1253340835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that < 1253340838 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253340839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're often used to tune TVs, for instance < 1253340846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRT TVs, that is < 1253340855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use permanent magnets as well as electromagnetism to help steer the beam < 1253340874 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRT TVs are no longer consumer electronics :P < 1253340909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I use a black and white CRT TV from the stone age < 1253340924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I got it second-hand from a velociraptor who crafted it out of the original spare rib < 1253340936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: both our TVs at home are CRT, although we threw the black-and-white one out ages ago < 1253340938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and plug it into my hand-crank Analytical Engine laptop < 1253340953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we couldn't find an easy way to get one with an integrated VHS recorder otherwise < 1253340963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft, integrated < 1253340963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my parents don't really understand recording technologies more advanced than VHS < 1253340964 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253340966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like schmintergrated < 1253340968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor separate ones < 1253340975 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a PVR is easier than VHS :/ < 1253340980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: VHS recording is actually a bitch imo < 1253340989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not really on the integrated versions < 1253340989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interface sucks to set time, and the "magic codes" rarely work < 1253340993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you press the record button, it records < 1253341001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean recording on a timer? they don't normally do that < 1253341001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unless you want to record a program on at 4am < 1253341003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you know, < 1253341012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything not on right now < 1253341015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the usual method of accomplishing that in this family seems to be staying up until 4am < 1253341020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that works < 1253341026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then hitting record and going to bed? < 1253341028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253341031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253341038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the VCR rewinds and ejects once the tape ends < 1253341053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ironically, I do know how to work the timer, but rarely use it) < 1253341059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then, I haven't recorded anything for months anyway) < 1253341089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure torrents are at least an order of a magnitude easier to use than a VCR timer < 1253341098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and torrents aren't even very simple... < 1253341158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like tivo is probably easier, but also more locked-down < 1253341162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does Visual Studio run in Wine? < 1253341169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly not < 1253341172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort-of wondering what the free versions are like < 1253341181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used a paid version at University, it was just generically annoying < 1253341186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I switched to the command-line version instead < 1253341202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cl.exe isn't really that bad, it's hard to really mess up the interface of a command-line compiler < 1253341211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a well-polished vi keybindings type thing for visual studio < 1253341214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably makes it nicer < 1253341231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a big commercial thing, not just a 10-line open source addon that adds three commands and no combining) < 1253341250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codekana.com/ is also quite cool-looking due to its ability to parse invalid code < 1253341258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but visual studio just seems like Too Much < 1253341453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You are now leaving Wikia. Please click here to continue, or wait 10 seconds to be redirected. < 1253341457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... on an otherwise blank screen < 1253341460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, wikia < 1253341461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate wikia. < 1253341463 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1253341466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a brilliant idea! < 1253341469 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki* < 1253341475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ...what? < 1253341483 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki* is generally bad < 1253341489 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or *wiki < 1253341493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait you're not serious are you? < 1253341509 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely. Do you know the amount of time I have spent reading random articles on Wikipedia? < 1253341511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a menace < 1253341517 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost as bad as TVTropes < 1253341528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: fuck you, i was all prepared to be all holier-than-thou :P < 1253341534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just go and ruin my rage! < 1253341607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh anyone want to .iso this usb stick :| < 1253341779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... any reason a CD must be ISO format? Why not just dd off the stick? < 1253341787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION founded a wiki on wikia.. back before they went evil < 1253341794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: .iso → USB < 1253341807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.iso ubuntu 9.04 → usb sticky stick < 1253341814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unetbootin would be the thing < 1253341820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses qt4, but windows/linux binaries only < 1253341826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm way too lazy to compile it < 1253341942 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: format the stick, copy the disk over, then set up grub on it? < 1253341956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use grub, just syslinux < 1253341973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, that would work, added to todo as "last resort". < 1253341993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not grub? < 1253342062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it won't work? i don't know this shit, i just know it's true < 1253342100 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't work from a USB stick? < 1253342107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fine from a USB harddisk for me < 1253342133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffffffffffffffffff < 1253342135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even knw < 1253342136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know < 1253342155 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you appear to have sprung a leak < 1253342180 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253342594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/ ;; .........ffffffffffffffffffff < 1253342600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you dmm < 1253342648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it was rather bad today < 1253342657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yesterday) < 1253342672 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I hate him now too :( < 1253342682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's stab him < 1253342695 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he invented Piet, so all's good < 1253342701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he's on the run from death already < 1253342752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/2425.html < 1253342758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death by time < 1253342798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that rather be death _to_ time? < 1253342903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're all death by < 1253342911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: death by being time < 1253342926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, possibly, perhaps < 1253343406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, who wants to get this usb working < 1253343407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1253343557 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you < 1253343564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also your mom < 1253343754 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, pretty sure she's asleep < 1253343913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she dreams about usb ubuntu install cds < 1253343916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all night. < 1253344129 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... she never complains about nightmares < 1253344634 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253345003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253345223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1253347199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253347200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253347329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1253347400 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253347438 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253348441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253348487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253349143 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253352768 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@83.197.99.254 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253355723 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-93-72.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253356107 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1253356464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what was that about ejecting usb stick about? < 1253356490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not entirely sure; ehird seems to have mechanical problems with his < 1253356545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, he must be weak if he can't pull out an usb stick! < 1253356562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's some sort of weird magnetic lock thing < 1253356563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1253356608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that locks onto what? the plastic of the computer? < 1253356621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure of the details < 1253356637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that seems too silly to be true < 1253356645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :video or it didn't happen < 1253356651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253356660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1253358613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1253362321 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253369695 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253369897 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253370080 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253371218 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253371287 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253375038 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253375424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Arrr! IWC! < 1253375450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, agreed < 1253377885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253378966 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253379260 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253380407 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-160-121-235.range86-160.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253384771 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253384786 0 :Elench!n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253384845 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253384858 0 :Elench!n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253385401 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253388396 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253390227 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253391207 0 :bsmntbombgirl!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1253391848 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253392985 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253393569 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253393770 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-20-254.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253394899 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253394967 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253395613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253397784 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253397830 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253397990 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253400107 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253400495 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1253400791 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-205.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253401502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253402030 0 :impomatic!n=nds@client-82-26-24-88.winn.adsl.virgin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253402042 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1253402082 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253402244 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1253403608 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1253403810 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253404169 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253404361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253404459 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253404969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253405449 0 :Patashu!n=Patashu@c122-106-162-185.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253406608 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253407363 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253407381 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253407422 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-97.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253408090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:32:22 for one thing, it wouldn't have any available screen resolutions that Vista would be able to comprehend < 1253408090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:32:47 if you wanted to go as high as 16 colours, the screen res was something awful like 160x120 < 1253408095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could do that I'm sure < 1253408106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98-type things could do 1-bit < 1253408149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm skipping logreading the middle day...) < 1253408151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:41:56 any guess when SSD may be more common than harddrives? < 1253408151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:42:17 or at least be equal or better in price, capacity and speed. < 1253408160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 5 years for the consumer market < 1253408173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but HDs will still be big for ages, I imagine; even in the consumer market < 1253408177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for servers, a million years < 1253408181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HDs are very orthodox < 1253408315 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253408441 0 :nescience!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253408709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, are you there? < 1253408787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, your vestiges of sanity are safe for now < 1253408826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:42 think it was 450 GB disk < 1253408826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :450 GiB = 483 GB < 1253408832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so prolly 500GB disks < 1253408850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:53:21 often small cases, that look like it could be a thin client (they aren't quite that though) < 1253408850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mini-atx is quite popular these days < 1253408884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45:22 AnMaster: they made a noise like someone trying to organise yet another bucket chain from the river and it was. < 1253408885 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he took a great deal that's got to be more and more dwarfs were coming to work in a dark alley, a voice which only he heard said: so... this classroom is in some way driven by the brain, eh? < 1253408888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1253408889 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld* europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1253408909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and it was" at the end made my brain put that quote to the tune of And She Was < 1253408923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except very skewed < 1253408999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what is the noise of someone trying to organise yet another bucket chain from the river? < 1253409088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:30:14 btw if you don't know what killer sudoku is, it's like sudoku except you get no initial cell values - instead you get an additional division into "cages", and are given the sum of the values in each cage < 1253409090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee < 1253409109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't consider sudoku nor that worthy of the title game < 1253409112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for different reasons < 1253409117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudoku's too easy, that's too evil < 1253409205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:06:30 American English shouldn't be classified as English < 1253409205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:06:31 It's too crap < 1253409205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to start using American English spelling because it's less crufty < 1253409247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:07:58 AnMaster: We just love zees more than brits because "zed" sounds so stupid. < 1253409247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE ZED; we used to sing the abc song in school like that and it totally broke the flow < 1253409277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"queue arr ess, tee you vee, double you ecks, why and zed" < 1253409279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1253409280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS AWFUL < 1253409281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SHOULD BE < 1253409284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"queue arr ess, tee you vee, double you ecks, why and zeeeeeeeeeee" < 1253409285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rant oevr < 1253409286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over < 1253409319 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Tragically born on the wrong side of the pond. < 1253409335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: on the other hand, self-loathing possibly beats rampant consumerism < 1253409356 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dood rampant consumerism RULES. < 1253409380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dood rampant consumerism rules: 1. Buy things. 2. A lot. < 1253409387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. Make them fit for a dood. < 1253409441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: tatham's killer sudoku got a lot easier after i had that realization before the quote, now i've solved everyone i tried (except possibly one i interrupted), while before i'd only managed a single one afair < 1253409558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'd managed a few in the weekend newspaper before, obviously they were much easier < 1253409595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:08:51 AnMaster: You see that airplane flying over your head? My joke is on that airplane. < 1253409595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:09:29 Gregor, what do you mean with airplane? < 1253409595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:09:44 AnMaster: MY META-JOKE IS ALSO ON THAT FUCKING AIRPLANE < 1253409602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I hitch a ride? < 1253409612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this bomb, you see... < 1253409649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:11:31 If calculus is over my head, then I do not understand calculus. <-- I pitty you < 1253409649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1253409655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there goes 'nother one < 1253409867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:35:45 ais523, he must be weak if he can't pull out an usb stick! < 1253409868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true for once < 1253409875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magnetic thing is just so it doesn't poke you, i guess < 1253409881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I'm just weak. it's out now < 1253409885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1253409893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's way strnoger than any other stuck I've tried to pull out < 1253409893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253409894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb that is < 1253409907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fin. < 1253409921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konec. < 1253411267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A village in south-estern Slovenia. < 1253411275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eastern < 1253411611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In terms of her biographical details, Marie Bila is a 77 year-old grandmother, who lives in small village in the Czech Republic with a cat called Jasmina, 15 chickens and goat Liza. < 1253411611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This year however, she's become Granny Coder, and is proving you're never too old to become a game developer. < 1253411611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On her blog, and helped by her three grandsons, she's been documenting the process of making her first game - an iPhone physics puzzle game called Gelex.]] < 1253411647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wait 'til it gets rejected! < 1253411728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably bullshit: < 1253411730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Someone who only has a basic knowledge of C/C++ in "IT Projects" makes a game concept on paper on August 28th. 22 days later they have a fully working game on a foreign platform in a foreign graphics API in a language that isn't C/C++ with self-made professional quality art, and is now posting about topics like using --ffast-math to compile the physics library, using degenerate triangle strips, and using HSV as an intermediate format for better color shift < 1253411795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also "End" in Czech < 1253411811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a place in the UK called Nowhere IIRC < 1253411851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a place in Norway called Hell (Less than an hour's drive from here) < 1253411956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is also a place close to my birth town called the norwegian translation of that, but that's a very local name so not famous) < 1253412018 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253414673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253416795 0 :amca!n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253417093 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253417572 0 :ehird!i=5b6949aa@gateway/web/freenode/x-urvzvdducuugffho JOIN :#esoteric < 1253417590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I name this Ubuntu machine, I've been stuck at this prompt for 70 years :| < 1253417745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something african perhaps < 1253417761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's african for butt. < 1253417767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1253417767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253417824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph this swahili dictionary has no match < 1253417863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this zulu one either... < 1253417906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "anus" is probably more likely. < 1253417925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1253417943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu is a Bantu word, it seems. < 1253417992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah punda means ass as in donkey < 1253418029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "panda". < 1253418036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up < 1253418086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try "mugabe", that's _almost_ the same isn't it? < 1253418164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253418231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you then still have a perfect explanation if someone asks you why you named it that < 1253418254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hate white people." < 1253418262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that too. < 1253418773 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253418820 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253418855 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-205.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253419262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eventually picked the imaginative name of "ehird-desktop" < 1253419365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure that means something rude in betelgeusean < 1253420531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253424923 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253426574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253426588 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253426745 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253427265 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253428332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253428667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253428767 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253431648 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Farewell" < 1253431882 0 :ehird!i=5b6949aa@gateway/web/freenode/x-opihepyoghlxnwsn JOIN :#esoteric < 1253431891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ping < 1253432985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253433599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253433600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253433839 0 :ehird!i=5b6949aa@gateway/web/freenode/x-akugqccezzogugrz JOIN :#esoteric < 1253435867 0 :Sgeo__!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253435973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253436149 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253436889 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253437110 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253437120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i test lika this: one two tree < 1253437122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1253437157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253438249 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253438255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1253438257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1253438262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tset < 1253438283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat-gnome sucks but xchat is worse :( < 1253438435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, i love you ubuntu < 1253438447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define a compose key entirely with the mouse < 1253438470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system -> preferences -> keyboard -> layouts -> layout options -> compose key position < 1253438509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue: the compose key, by default, is missing a bunch < 1253438516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compose -> isn't defined < 1253438523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compose .. produces ˙, not (...) < 1253438835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1253438861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat-gnome would be fine if it had more line spacing between ... lines < 1253438878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1253438879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253438905 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-20-254.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253438918 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253438932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: can you say "ehird: foo" in a second? kthx < 1253438937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: foo < 1253438941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, 3 seconds late < 1253438947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was good < 1253438978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, xchat-gnome wishlist: more line spacing, support that fancy notification menu thing that Ubuntu has. < 1253439488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(33 × 72) ÷ 29 < 1253439495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the Compose key makes that easy. < 1253439509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Compose x x and Compose :-) < 1253439515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*: - < 1253439617 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253440384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253441170 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253441172 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-125.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253441264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1253441370 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253441477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, can I enslave you? ping me yo < 1253441511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ping < 1253441519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253441572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat is kind of shit :x < 1253441649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice if there was a gtk irc client that didn't suck. < 1253441786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, epiphany should let you middle-click a tab to close it. < 1253441789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather gnome should. < 1253441792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly a binding somewhere. < 1253441831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it would be nice if you could resize a smart bookmark. and give it a keyboard shortcut. < 1253442503 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253443306 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253443727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253443748 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253443780 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253443798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253443839 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253443853 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253445595 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253445595 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253445605 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253446228 0 :Elench!n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253446342 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-8-199.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253446343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, all GTK IRC clients suffer from an extreme case of suck. < 1253446361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really dreading writing my own :-P < 1253446546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's way strnoger than any other stuck I've tried to pull out <-- an usb stuck? < 1253446581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253446583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A USB stuck. < 1253446612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hey, can you ping me again? I don't think I got an OSD notification for that. < 1253446625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok. < 1253446631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that worked. < 1253446631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(done) < 1253446641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe only in <>? < 1253446647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall we try that? < 1253446650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1253446651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's way strnoger than any other stuck I've tried to pull out <-- an usb stuck? < 1253446664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it work? < 1253446666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that worked. Guess I was just anti-hallucinating. < 1253446679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Ubuntu is good. Not awesomely great, but good. < 1253446694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's only a few niggles away from awesomely great. < 1253446750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, debootstrap is good. However the reason I needed it is because ubuntu's multilib packages are missing so much. < 1253446764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how that's related to what I said :P < 1253446768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for when you want to cross compile to 32-bit < 1253446776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1253446778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... -m32? < 1253446784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libs, I guess. < 1253446789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah sure, but doesn't help when the libs are missing < 1253446794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1253446807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or when they are there but the stuff needed to link to them aren't < 1253446826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the *.la files < 1253446930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh yeah, I meant to tell you. If you want to use less watts on your laptop, tell HAL to stop polling the optical drive. < 1253446945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You are free to stare at the implications of that sentence for a few minutes in awe.) < 1253446994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know about that. Since ages. < 1253447003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty amazingly terrible. < 1253447032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thing is, my laptop is probably new enough to support the "cd drive notifies about events instead of having to be polled" < 1253447043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure every optical drive ever has done that. < 1253447049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, < 1253447050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop. < 1253447053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $// < 1253447057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a fairly new feature < 1253447064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In HAL maybe. Not in drives. < 1253447069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes in drives < 1253447096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X, at least, reacts as soon as I put a disk in the drive with no delay whatsoever, so either Macs once again save the day with good engineering or "polling" means "every ms". < 1253447099 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253447100 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1253447112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well right, OS X maybe, but what about normal PCs? < 1253447143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macs (almost) always had good hardware < 1253447150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's the hardware(, stupid,) then it is almost certainly common as Macs use a third-party drive. < 1253447164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's the software(, stupid,) then OS X has some magical polling technique that uses zero watts.. < 1253447193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.{2}/./ < 1253447265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the latest Ubuntu must have regressed ATI drivers or something. < 1253447273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Newer SATA-based CDROM drives have the capability to notify the machine when a CD gets inserted, making polling unnecessary. Both the kernel and hal are currently undergoing development to detect and support this capability, so that polling is not needed at any time for these devices." < 1253447279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from http://www.lesswatts.org/tips/disks.php < 1253447283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the only fglrx that supports this new X11 version dropped support for the X1600 and other "old" cards. < 1253447298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess I was using fglrx on older versions and now I'm seeing the shittiness of the open source drivers. < 1253447299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc the last versions does support it now < 1253447337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old is X1600? < 1253447368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it came with this 2006 Mac, and Macs use recent hardware. < 1253447379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe 2005 release, earliest. < 1253447398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is old enough for ATI or nvidia to drop support yeah < 1253447405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a high-end card, and it's a notebook card (iMacs are notebooks with big screens, right down to using mobile processors). < 1253447414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1253447433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so the only macs with desktop components are the mac pros? < 1253447440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's very XD; it lets Apple reuse the internals of their notebook models and it also uses less power. It's not like it's slower or anything. < 1253447452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Those don't use desktop components, they use server/high-end workstation components (like Xeon). < 1253447462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no macs use desktop components? < 1253447483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1253447495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unusual < 1253447508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep in mind that desktop components run hot enough that the iMac would have to be thicker to account for the beefier heatsink. Either that or louder because of a fastest fan. < 1253447513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't everyone use laptop components in desktops? are they more expensive? < 1253447516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd also use lots more power. < 1253447528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not really fit for a tower case, I guess. < 1253447543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine they may be cheaper than similarly-performing desktop components. < 1253447554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd say inertia, and a misguided devotion to the clock cycles. < 1253447566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus tower cases (which suck anyway). < 1253447576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with tower cases? < 1253447586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the clock cycles/clock cycles/ < 1253447613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Unneeded for anything but workstations. They waste space and, fundamentally, they're a Bad object: you never *use* the tower. It's sitting there because it has to. < 1253447625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody wants a big box in their house that doesn't, in itself, *do* anything for them. < 1253447649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure does, it contains the CPU. GPU, PSU, and so on < 1253447658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. You don't sit in front of the tower and use it. < 1253447679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use your display, audio devices, keyboard, pointing devices... < 1253447691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, according to that logic, something like a cable "modem" would be equally hated. < 1253447692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The box, in itself, does not a single thing but sit there and hum. < 1253447698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Did I say hated? < 1253447707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not as such, maybe just "disliked" < 1253447713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone could make their cable model disappear and just have a wire going from the wall, yes, of course they'd do it. < 1253447754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, a tower case is a lot easier to open and clean than a cramped computer. And easier to replace components in < 1253447776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The box itself is useless: it gives multiple ethernet ports, which could be integrated into the wall socket. Apart from that, it has a reset button (which could go into the same wall socket) and annoying, useless LEDs. < 1253447785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, cable modems suck. < 1253447803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it isn't trivial to do much maintenance on imacs apart from installing RAM and some other basic stuff (replace harddrive maybe?) < 1253447804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, the expandability is their only advantage. < 1253447819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, replacing the harddrive is non-trivial and almost certainly warranty-voiding. < 1253447827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how easy is it to clean the dust from the heatsink inside your imac? < 1253447837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It doesn't collect any because the space is so compact and sealed off. < 1253447848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sealed off, so no fan either? < 1253447851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I say "any"; I mean any meaningful amount. < 1253447865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The exhaust slot is too small to fit even a pencil head through. < 1253447874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any filters in the intake? < 1253447885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I can't even look at it. < 1253447888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tiny. < 1253447896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a cheese grater thing on the bottom. < 1253447901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's the thing, it's on the bottom. < 1253447919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dust doesn't spontaneously slide under an iMac and then jump up really high, I find. < 1253447922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, but that wouldn't stop the dust from entering would it? Larger particles yes, but not dust as such < 1253447945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To travel as far as the CPU in such a compact space that's so hard to enter would be a feat. < 1253447959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the iMac is pretty sealed; there aren't even any screws on the back. < 1253447967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some dust will reach it. though probably much less than on a usual tower design < 1253447977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can open up the RAM slot and I guess the dissecting sort of crowd opens it from that cramped space. < 1253447979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ouch, plastic snapping thingies? < 1253447984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the RAM slot is screws. < 1253447990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it just opens to two RAM slots and a wall. < 1253447995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on the bottom. < 1253447996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I meant the rest of it < 1253448002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1253448003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sealed. < 1253448009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot possibly open it without going through the bottom. < 1253448018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, how do authorised service people get in then < 1253448031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I *guess* you could pry the back plastic across from the rest of the form, but it's very deeply embedded. < 1253448043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably via the RAM slots. < 1253448046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253448056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or taking off the bottom cheese-grater. < 1253448072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, which imac model is this? hm < 1253448077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which houses the RAM slots and the speaker holes, and is the intake (I guess). < 1253448089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Late 2006; the later ones are aluminium and thinner. I don't know if they remove the cheese grater. < 1253448109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://a.images.blip.tv/Bleedingedge-BleedingEdgeTV178IMacRAMUpgradeOnTheCheap520.jpg < 1253448112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not the ones that are like a TFT on an arm mounted on a half ball? < 1253448113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly different. < 1253448130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the cheese greater is in two parts and doesn't cover the whole bottom, and the RAM slots are side-by-side (presumably for thinness). < 1253448135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, that's the 2002 model. < 1253448138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253448149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2002 to 2004 iMac G5) < 1253448155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I love that design, though. < 1253448158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't 2002 the age of the bright colours? < 1253448165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's 1998-2002. < 1253448165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that more like 2000-2001? < 1253448168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253448181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was quite a departure from existing computer designs, which were, well... 90s. < 1253448184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I love that design, though. <-- ball one? < 1253448190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1253448197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, beige goes with everything! < 1253448207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beige goes with beige. :P < 1253448241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iMac G4 (ball/pivot design) is pretty much my favourite desktop computer design ever. < 1253448253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my tower is more like: "black metal and silver coloured plastic goes with everything" < 1253448280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it has a computer in it even less than the later designs, the LCD was fully tiltable and a separate unit so you could focus on it (as opposed to the additional borders in later designs). < 1253448280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and blue leds around power button to indicate it is on < 1253448287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a circle around the power button yeah < 1253448309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, the ball was really small. Additionally, the optical drive was horizontal, which means that it'll spin the discs with less fighting of physics than the later models. < 1253448337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertical cd drives always make me nervous < 1253448359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for vertical harddrives < 1253448380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Issues with the original iMac G4: small screens (15"-17" iirc), slow hardware by today's standards (G4). < 1253448384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the modern imacs looks like they aren't even completely vertical, but slightly tilted < 1253448386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, iMac G4. < 1253448390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the original iMac. < 1253448392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, they are. < 1253448411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that makes me even more nervous < 1253448415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the components are really reliable, so it's fine. < 1253448435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Notebook components, remember. < 1253448440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're designed to be tilted. < 1253448449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see e.g. all those tilted notebook stands) < 1253448457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what sort of connectors does that imac have? Any external video connectors for use with projectors and such? < 1253448467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, the better notebooks withstand a fall of a few feet while accessing the disk. < 1253448501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is only because they have an accelerometer and pull the head off the harddisk in a split second < 1253448511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's changed in the later models, I think, but this one has two audio ports, three USB ports, two FireWire ports, an Ethernet port and an Apple-display-connector-of-the-week port. < 1253448527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I was just emphasising that notebook components are built to withstand a lot. < 1253448532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple-display-connector-of-the-week <-- how fitting. Tell me, what one was it then? < 1253448550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mini-DVI. < 1253448553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253448554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Looked it up.) < 1253448576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My personal opinion is that the rest of the industry should adopt Mini DisplayPort, but everyone's going for the non-mini version. < 1253448583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is kinda silly, who doesn't like mini? < 1253448589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but on the other hand not exactly a big deal. < 1253448596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, everyone without tiny hands? ;P < 1253448607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except for the whole "more money? To you, Apple? To connect my display? Sure!" thing.) < 1253448622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's, like, the size of a USB port. A little smaller. < 1253448635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My real enemy, though, is Ethernet. < 1253448669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, most projectors tend to have VGA as far as I have seen < 1253448680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ethernet ports are so annoying to attach (push...push...click!), the little tab thing at the top you have to push down is annoying, and the ports are so tall that they actually flush with thin notebook's edges (and are omitted from some to avoid making them deeper). < 1253448692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess DP includes analogue signal too < 1253448702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no. < 1253448707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVI, DisplayPort, ... are all digital. < 1253448714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: modern projectors have dvi btw. < 1253448724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, DVI has both signals < 1253448729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least some DVI < 1253448731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doe? < 1253448732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does < 1253448746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253448756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DVI-I" stands for "DVI-Integrated" and supports both digital and analog transfers, so it works with both digital and analog Visual Display Units. "DVI-D" stands for "DVI-Digital" and supports digital transfers only. < 1253448759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia on DVI < 1253448766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're right. But no, there are digital DVI projectors, I'm pretty sure. < 1253448800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how do you mean ethernet flush with the edges? < 1253448805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like: < 1253448815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is no taller than a vertical USB port < 1253448834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my thinkpad has it's three usb ports oriented vertically < 1253448844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------------------ < 1253448844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ ] < 1253448844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] [ ] | ] < 1253448844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ ] < 1253448844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------------------ < 1253448849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, macs are thinner < 1253448869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3169/2988420535_5acf01b064.jpg < 1253448869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what are the first two ones? < 1253448872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MacBook Pro) < 1253448874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, USB or something. < 1253448884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the second port in that image is Ethernet. < 1253448889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253448898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, macs are too thin for their own good :P < 1253448906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no firewire!? < 1253448909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a mac?! < 1253448918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireWire isn't in the 13" model, iirc. < 1253448923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253448925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. < 1253448933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the third one? < 1253448937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was restored when it became the 13" MacBook Pro as opposed to just the 13" aluminium MacBook. < 1253448950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only things that use FireWire are cameras, anyway. < 1253448956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a rather unadopted sort of port. < 1253448958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, harddrives < 1253448966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly USB. < 1253448982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high end harddrives and (high end only?) video cameras < 1253448982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or made by Apple or Mac-oriented companies. :P < 1253448993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the lower-end cameras use USB, I'm pretty sure. < 1253449008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well only video cameras < 1253449016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ll/ll,/ < 1253449021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, the MacBook Pro is rather less impressively thin than http://k8rhymeswith.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/macbook-air.jpg. < 1253449028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly that last image. < 1253449041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it cheats a bit by curving outwards, but still. < 1253449042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where is the power connector though < 1253449049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On what? < 1253449054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macbook air < 1253449064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you need at least that, no way to get away from it < 1253449083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No "getting away" in the MacBook Air, it has ports: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Apple-MacBook-Air-Ports.jpg < 1253449092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You slide that out and it slides into the case, fitting with it.) < 1253449096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the power port is on the back. < 1253449109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Those three ports are audio, USB and something-display, btw.) < 1253449116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only audio out? < 1253449119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no mic port? < 1253449125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. Audio ports are both, though, aren't they? < 1253449130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's either it's audio out only, though. < 1253449134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/01/macbook-air-rev2-sm2-05.jpg < 1253449137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power connector is on the case. < 1253449145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, audio ports being both isn't standard at least < 1253449148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some mac only one < 1253449161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the MacBook Air has a built-in microphone. < 1253449162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it goes downwards? < 1253449166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly meant to be your only computer. < 1253449168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sure, I think. < 1253449184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't work if you can't place it so it sticks out past the table < 1253449189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in the middle of a table < 1253449204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That photo may be misleading. < 1253449205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally my desk goes all the way to the wall beind it < 1253449235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/01_macbook_air.jpg < 1253449243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly that bending makes me cringe, but it's probably fine. < 1253449254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it is magnetic. :P < 1253449257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that one isn't even fully pushed in! < 1253449271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True dat. < 1253449295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, indeed, the Air has flaws. Among those is just 2GB of RAM... < 1253449303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and ok it is on the side, even worse since I have most space on the other side of the desk. < 1253449348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just bend the cord :P < 1253449350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would have sounded like a ridiculous statement just two or three years ago < 1253449356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, about the RAM < 1253449387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, 1GB of RAM was the baseline and 2GB a good upgrade in 2006. < 1253449392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm not sure about that. < 1253449403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, it's the 64-bit. < 1253449416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why are mac laptops so thin. Seriously, making it a bit thicker doesn't actually make it worse to use IME. And I used both thin macbooks and thick thinkpads < 1253449421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bam! You're using like 1.5x more RAM. < 1253449426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because why not? < 1253449431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more aesthetically pleasing. < 1253449450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's easier to fit in bags, etc. < 1253449455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ThinkPads are not really thick. < 1253449467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the T-series, which is only slightly thicker than current MacBook Pros. < 1253449479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you suggesting about half the data in most programs are pointers? < 1253449480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the X-series too, I guess. < 1253449490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: With today's crufty libraryspace, probably. < 1253449507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the R series? It manages to fit the ethernet so it looks natural < 1253449519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the macbook I was comparing to was a "white plastic" one < 1253449522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure when that was < 1253449535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the R stands for budget (the R is silent and also invisible) so it's a bit thicker. Still, quite thin. < 1253449548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intel cpu though < 1253449549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Depends. What was the keyboard like? < 1253449564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keys have space between them or a more regular PC-notebook-style thing? < 1253449568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the R is silent and also invisible <-- silent yes, invisible? huh? < 1253449570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Intel. < 1253449573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacBook. < 1253449584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually heavier and a bit thicker than the MacBook Pros to be cheaper. < 1253449585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Keys have space between them or a more regular PC-notebook-style thing? <-- space between < 1253449586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a joke. < 1253449593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T is for thin. < 1253449597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is for budget... which has no R. < 1253449603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the R is silent and also invisible. < 1253449608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1253449623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, X for ...? < 1253449634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xtremely portable! < 1253449642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xtreme battery life too < 1253449652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's standard for an ultraportable. < 1253449672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X-series isn't so portable nowadays, though, being about as thick as a 14" 4:3. < 1253449689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although the screen's still small.) < 1253449727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that one of the most important things for a ThinkPad to be good is for it to have that ridiculously colourful IBM logo on it. < 1253449733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least my subconscious seems to think so. < 1253449743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an eyesore, which is good! < 1253449745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253449745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also the macbook I'm comparing too is about as thick when lid is closed as the base when lid is open on my thinkpad < 1253449759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmparing to < 1253449761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*comparing < 1253449768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The recent MacBook Pros are thinner. < 1253449769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253449776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm < 1253449777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also lighter. < 1253449787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The same size (13") model, that is.) < 1253449801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and ethernet port fits quite well on my thinkpad :P < 1253449807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher specs -> thinner and lighter! < 1253449819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, somehow that doesn't make sense :P < 1253449820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, an i7 MacBook would actually add thickness to things around it. < 1253449828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's negatively thin! < 1253449834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would R stand for budget btw? Are they cheap? < 1253449850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the non-R ones being much cheaper < 1253449855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253449858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more expensive* < 1253449862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're slightly cheaper (no ThinkPad is cheap) and therefore thicker and heavier. < 1253449874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, less battery life. < 1253449877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253449889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinkpads are cheap compared to macs at least < 1253449900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but not massively. < 1253449926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're quite a bit more expensive than even high-end Dells and the like. < 1253449955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well possibly, but at least they have usable monitors < 1253449977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't glossy TFTs be more expensive? < 1253449978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-Apple glossy is kind of irrelevant unless you're outside. < 1253449986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, the glossiness is natural, I think. < 1253449992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The anti-matte is an extra process, I'm pretty sure. < 1253450005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so matte isn't natural? < 1253450006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apple's glossy screens are a lot more glossy than normal ones) < 1253450009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think so. < 1253450014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, though. < 1253450043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, huh, so why wasn't glossy introduced first? < 1253450049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple refers to the matte screen option as anti-golssy, so I guess that's an additional "process". < 1253450054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Was it? < 1253450066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know. < 1253450071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean, matte TFTs are older than glossy ones < 1253450074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? < 1253450092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glossy ones were introduced a few years ago yes, while matte ones been around quite a while longer < 1253450104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define a few. I think you're wrong. < 1253450107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I'm absolutely positive < 1253450112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 2003? 2004? < 1253450120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? < 1253450132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I know old laptops were always matte < 1253450140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same for old desktop displays < 1253450142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't prove anything. < 1253450154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to go back further to see. < 1253450173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why then would glossy ones have been unpopular for so long? < 1253450186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I remember some laptop in 1995 or so... matte... < 1253450190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they look like shit unless you make them super-extra-glossy so that they SHIIIIIIIIIIIIINE? < 1253450200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253450208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because of inertia; perhaps matte was established earlier on when the engineers tested not covering it and found "wow this is crap". < 1253450212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be totally wrong though. < 1253450277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I don't know for sure either. But as far as I know that thing you quoted apple on naming it sounds like marketing speech < 1253450300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's anti-marketing speak; its juxtaposition with the default glossy makes glossy sound like "glare". < 1253450314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm not basing it solely on that. But really I don't care. < 1253450509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1253451013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1253451137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to try and make that Linux magic (capability-based?) sandboxer now. < 1253451165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1253451166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too clued up on how unix users work though. Can you use any UID spontaneously, and an /etc/passwd entry is just for things like a username and shit? < 1253451176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you referring to the thing EgoBot uses? < 1253451194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, something I want to make. You can run untrusted programs without a care because it can only write files to your home directory, etc. if you let it to. < 1253451209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The challenge is making this in a way that doesn't involve a dozen "let program access file X?" prompts every second. < 1253451212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I believe /etc/passwd (or other schemes, like NIS and what not) are just for username, password, home directory, shell and such < 1253451222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are root you could change to any uid < 1253451226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. So the kernel just associates an arbitrary integer with processes? < 1253451227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1253451236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if many programs check /etc/passwd instead of using $HOME. < 1253451242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not completely sure, but I think so < 1253451261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about $HOME, it would be set from /etc/passwd or whatever < 1253451271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freebsd doesn't use /etc/passwd directly for example < 1253451283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses some db file, but when it is updated /etc/passwd is too < 1253451291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for compatibility reasons I think < 1253451291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but you can do HOME=foo prog < 1253451302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can do that yes < 1253451318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess user-managing things do /etc/passwd instead, but they'd have to be special-cased to apply to the "actual" user in this system anyway < 1253451358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, this should mainly consist of creating a user and then doing an LD_PRELOAD. < 1253451364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as for capabilities... no such support in linux in the meaning of capabilities that you mean < 1253451373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then, later, adding this to the kernel's process spawner.) < 1253451383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No shit. Thus why I'm coding it. < 1253451400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about LD_PRELOAD, there are ways to work around that unless you make sure it fails without LD_PRELOAD < 1253451413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, static binaries, direct system calls < 1253451433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would end up doing the same thing as that thing egobot uses if you want to make it fool proof < 1253451448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I am doing is nothing like what EgoBot is doing. < 1253451464 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253451470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, either I'll simply not support using any static binaries or I'll just replace libc for non-root programs with my LD_PRELOAD shim. < 1253451476 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253451482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which calls libc itself, of course) < 1253451489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that would be Hidden Away) < 1253451502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System calls can be overridden; at least anarchy golf does it. < 1253451522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One challenge I'll face is having almost zero overhead... I refuse to make programs slow. < 1253451586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I can do it, though. < 1253451603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which provides more motivation to make a Linux distro and package manager :P < 1253451626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : System calls can be overridden; at least anarchy golf does it. <-- ptrace I guess? < 1253451631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1253451637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how then < 1253451665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Down with the bourgeoise distribution control system! Down with the global package conspiracy! Viva la user! Viva la unsecure code! Viva la capabilities! Viva la sandboxing! Viva la purely-functional package manager! < 1253451672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dunno. < 1253451674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check. < 1253451724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the kernel actually contains non-free code! < 1253451741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends. < 1253451747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No depends about it: http://jebba.blagblagblag.org/?p=244 < 1253451777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes depends on if you include the firmware or not < 1253451790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code is still there whether you compile with it or not. < 1253451795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But look at the list. < 1253451799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more than just that. < 1253451882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as it happens I use none of those on my desktop (on the other hand, it has nvidia driver so meh), for my laptop I need the tg3 and iwlagn drivers, iwlagn at least loads some firmware from /lib/fimware < 1253452016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long int syscall(long int number, ...) { < 1253452016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // Don't call syscall < 1253452016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : watch_log("syscall\n"); < 1253452016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0; < 1253452016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1253452019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's unhelpful < 1253452046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can easily do the syscall manually in any case. < 1253452060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you can't. Anagolf allows C and asm. < 1253452064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It DOES block syscalls. < 1253452070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know how yet. < 1253452087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. Anyway in C you can do inline asm, and in asm, well... < 1253452100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, using ptrace *would* work I think < 1253452181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the issue is that lots of hardware these days cut down on costs by having the driver load the firmware on each boot < 1253452187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduces needed flash on chipset < 1253452197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus cheaper < 1253452244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EEPROM is more expensive than DRAM. And also it is easier to fix a messup, just reboot, no need to worry about flashing going wrong < 1253452303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just end up with firmware in rom were you can't avoid it: BIOS, disk controller and such. < 1253452311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or eeprom) < 1253452347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptrace is slow, no? < 1253452355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every process, remember < 1253452358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no idea. < 1253452380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also you can't ptrace at least a few things: init and the ptrace daemon itself < 1253452396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could write your own init < 1253452401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which did the ptrace stuff too < 1253452405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1253452405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really really wanted to < 1253452413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems like NIH < 1253452873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how does ptrace actually work? < 1253452903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it what anagolf uses? < 1253452917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and: man ptrace < 1253452935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used it directly, but iirc, stuff like strace, gdb and what not uses it too < 1253452965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea how anagolf does it. < 1253452973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No manual entry for ptrace < 1253452975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't anagolf open source? < 1253452976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I need build-essentials :P < 1253452977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1253452983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see how it does it. < 1253452984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, install the relevant package, not sure what package that is < 1253452992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build-essential < 1253453021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you maybe want to use the ptrace flag PTRACE_SYSEMU < 1253453035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No manual entry. < 1253453039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manpages-dev < 1253453049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay. < 1253453053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, man page mentions that UML uses PTRACE_SYSEMU < 1253453068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, the thing is, "trace". < 1253453071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather override than trace. < 1253453076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can do that < 1253453079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, long-term solution is to patch the actual syscalls. < 1253453081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what I mentioned < 1253453086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like with libc for static binaries. < 1253453094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also removes overhead. < 1253453101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just like with libc for static binaries. <-- ? < 1253453118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make static binaries bow to my LD_PRELOAD prowess if I instead replace libc with the LD_PRELOAD'd lib. < 1253453122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hack it up sufficiently. < 1253453136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then store the actual libc in a closely-guarded area with wolves.) < 1253453164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm, static binaries include the relevant parts from libc in the binary < 1253453167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wouldn't work < 1253453175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use /usr/lib/libc.a < 1253453175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, duh. < 1253453182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly me. < 1253453183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT! < 1253453190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc can only do tricksy stuff via syscalls. < 1253453217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can make my clever syscalls actually *look at the libc call that was done* (if any), and pass that on to whatever. < 1253453248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, it uses a vdso to do it, kernel provides the vdso. This is so the best syscall method is always used. At least it is like that on x86. Since x86_64 only uses one method I guess it wouldn't require a vdso < 1253453280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point is, I can theoretically do all this for everything. < 1253453286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, what the fuck is a static binary these days? < 1253453294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(best here means something like "if possible use SYSCALL/SYSRET or SYSENTER/SYSEXIT, fall back on interrupt to do it) < 1253453305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Scheme compiler does static binaries. < 1253453311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure it's a very widespread system! < 1253453318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your Scheme compiler eats shit! < 1253453320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253453331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, busybox is static here. ICC produces static binaries if you use -fast to make it optimise as much as possible < 1253453339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots more < 1253453346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox isn't on a desktop distro. < 1253453352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't use -fast. < 1253453358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I just don't see static binaries as really being widespread. < 1253453361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all. < 1253453365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because dynamic linking does have some overhead, you have to use the GOT < 1253453371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just a direct call/jump < 1253453395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could force binding on load if that is what you want < 1253453408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, mozplugger can embed arbitrary X stuff as a Mozilla plugin? < 1253453409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and ld.so is static iirc. < 1253453410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uber-sweet! < 1253453418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Obviously I'd have to replace low-level things like that < 1253453440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously this approach won't be problem-free; I am after all totally sandboxing stuff. < 1253453463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I bet X will be slow with it < 1253453471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X runs as root, dude. It's exempt. < 1253453471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the 3D bits I mean < 1253453487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be overhead. I'm avoiding that, remember? < 1253453494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you will only sandbox user processes? Not all as you said above < 1253453501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and X is moving away from needing root < 1253453506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with the new GEM stuff in the kernel < 1253453513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I kill you so you realise that hyperbole is not actually truth? < 1253453529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't know you weren't serious < 1253453559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253453562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the GEM stuff is bleeding edge. I think arch might have it. Possibly < 1253453574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not released yet < 1253453587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The emphasis was that your phat shell pipeline that executes a command per each million line will be run under all of this stuff, every single process. < 1253453593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phat? < 1253453598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And speed is *awesome*. < 1253453601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fat, ghetto-style. < 1253453604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253453621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An issue with Evince-in-mozplugger is that I don't think menus are very... plugginy. < 1253453627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, menus belong at the top of the screen :-P < 1253453646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um, menus at top of screen is very.... appleish < 1253453652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, window. < 1253453653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not screen. < 1253453657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253453684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so where does mozplugger place them? < 1253453687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've seen a screenshot, and apart from that it looks great. < 1253453693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like any Firefox plugin. < 1253453699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In the page contents. < 1253453709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253453715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, I'll reupload a screenshot from the Ubuntu forums (needs registration you see). < 1253453727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Here, I'll reupload a screenshot from the Ubuntu forums (needs registration you see). <-- even to view? < 1253453733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253453737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ubuntu forums are stupid. < 1253453751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have been able to read threads on the ubuntu forums with no registration < 1253453755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not files. < 1253453755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe only for pics? < 1253453757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also run on vBulletin - proprietary, for-money forum software - when better free alternatives exist. < 1253453758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ì see < 1253453760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I* < 1253453769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, what I'm saying is the Ubuntu forums are fucking retarded. < 1253453772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, phpBB? ;P < 1253453774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They're not run by Canonical) < 1253453784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But they're officially endorsed) < 1253453787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253453808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upload, upload, upload. < 1253453822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/ufXf8.jpg (jpg not my fault) < 1253453829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evince in Firefox (circa 2005 :P). < 1253453835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway ptrace would work. But for making it fast you might need to do some in kernel module < 1253453846 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253453849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only things that look out of place for a document plugin are the menu and the status bar. < 1253453868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253453899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately the menu also offers Vital Functions(TM), so it'll have to stay. Modern Evince has no status bar. < 1253453933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what has this got to do with sandboxing? < 1253453933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh jesus christ, /etc/mozpluggerrc is an m4 file. < 1253453937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nothing. < 1253453943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1253453945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm setting this up for me. < 1253453961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253453982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know kpdf integrates nicely in konqueror? < 1253453983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1253454003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it works. < 1253454008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get install mozplugger and it works automatically. < 1253454010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No configuration. < 1253454014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does kwrite for when you open a C file or such. So you get nice syntax highlighting < 1253454019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's already set up with Evince in the default configuration file (among others like kpdf). < 1253454024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Only problem: KDE sucks shit. < 1253454030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, KDE 4 yes < 1253454033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1253454034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All KDE. < 1253454036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 4 slightly less. < 1253454037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and KDE 3 is getting a bit dated < 1253454044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcop, yes, wonderful. kparts, nice, but... X has that already, you know. < 1253454053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the X embedding is how mozplugger works.) < 1253454067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you like dcop?! < 1253454080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I guess you just love dbus < 1253454089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcop allowed for an awesome integrated system: you had a command-line for the whole environment. < 1253454091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very lisp machine. < 1253454099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbus seems a bit too enterprisey to be useful for that. < 1253454105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe < 1253454131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, what's the point of kparts? X has that. < 1253454143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, kate is a lot nicer than gedit. I could live with the gnome terminal if I could disable the horrible blinking cursor < 1253454148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't find any setting for that < 1253454164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't get the extra menu? ;P < 1253454186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh don't be silly. < 1253454201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought you were complaining about it? < 1253454217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but kparts requires application changes, so why not just add a --no-menubar option and call that in the X embedder? < 1253454225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, like, 50,000x less work or so? < 1253454250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the important options show up in the menu of the host app with kparts though < 1253454266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just confusing if the document is below the tab fold. < 1253454272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly wouldn't look for a menu in the global app menu. < 1253454297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how does it work on OS X then for the important menu options? < 1253454322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugins have no menus. Design your UI properly for the context of being in a browser tab, you lazy bum. < 1253454338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what happens with acrobat reader on windows? it has a plugin too < 1253454342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OS X errs on the side of more work, less shiny-automatic-technology-ooh and more final polish.) < 1253454350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't even want to know, but it's probably horrific. < 1253454360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember < 1253454428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, gedit is fine enough as a Notepad replacement (view files, make tiny edits.) < 1253454446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For blinking cursor, eh; there's probably a global Gnome setting. Possibly in GConf somewhere. < 1253454461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the terminal, if you care enough to replace the terminal, why not use urxvt or something else? < 1253454492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I like konsole? :P < 1253454502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is what I use < 1253454504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's just Yet Another Mediocre Desktop Environment Terminal. < 1253454516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a very resourceful one < 1253454520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1253454532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of features in konsole < 1253454539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, mozplugger is cool: < 1253454540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio/x-sidtune:sid,psid:Commodore 64 Audio < 1253454540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio/sidtune:sid,psid:Commodore 64 Audio < 1253454540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio/psid:psid,sid:Commodore 64 Audio < 1253454540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio/x-psid:psid,sid:Commodore 64 Audio < 1253454540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : controls noisy: sidplay -16 -f44100 -a "$file" < 1253454549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They Thought Of Everything(TM)! < 1253454632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately evince and mozplugger do not interact very well --modplugger homepage < 1253454658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why so many cursors blink. < 1253454663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty pointless. < 1253454682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the sysvinit tarball contains a file describing how to upgrade from older init versions that were used before linux 2.0 XD < 1253454704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly in a directory called obsolete. The reason I looked was that the file was called README.RIGHT.NOW < 1253454707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck, sysvinit < 1253454717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is what provides /sbin/init < 1253454720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1253454724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoorah for bsdinit. < 1253454738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on freebsd at least /sbin/init is a static binary < 1253454739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that still uses /sbin/init. < 1253454742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still. < 1253454757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, Compiz screen-dimming alt-tab is so annoying when you just hit it quickly. < 1253454760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a flickery screen. < 1253454768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1253454769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Install *just* the init binary as /sbin/init.new. Now reboot the system, < 1253454769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and stop your bootloader so you can give arguments on the command line. < 1253454769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : With LILO you can usually achieve this by keeping the SHIFT key < 1253454769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pressed during boot up. Enter the name of the kernel image (for LILO, < 1253454769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : TAB shows a list) followed by the argument "init=/sbin/init.new". < 1253454772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The name "init.new" is special, do not use something like "init.test". < 1253454774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1253454777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh! < 1253454781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, BSD init sucks but sysv init sucks more. < 1253454795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what init would you prefer? If you say launchd I will kill you < 1253454799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably my distro would have something Fitter, Happier and More Productive. < 1253454832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Something simple. < 1253454845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole concept of init is basically a hack anyway, but while we're staying with something that's still a unix... < 1253454853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that file also says that for slackware you should use slackware 3.0 or newer < 1253454858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD init is a bit too centralised and its configuration file is a bit too opaque for my tastes. < 1253454863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sysv is just a clusterfuck. < 1253454870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and debian 1.3 or newer < 1253454881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Remember that slackware isn't as old as it seems from its versions :P < 1253454883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it is possible to get hold of a copy of that old debian release < 1253454885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, so it's an old file. < 1253454886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253454893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Debian releases are still available. < 1253454897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the repositories are still up too. < 1253454900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, all packages for them? < 1253454912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1253454925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday I was looking for an old woody package because of bitrot made it impossible to compile it with modern gcc < 1253454953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/Debian-0.93R6/ < 1253454958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1995 < 1253454965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And files with that last modification date, too. < 1253454975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never trust modification dates. "touch" is so quick to type. < 1253454982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't want to even try to patch gcc 2.95 (including patch for cross compiling to h8300) to compile under gcc 4.3 < 1253454988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for binutils < 1253454991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and newlib < 1253454995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A minimal installation of Debian GNU/Linux requires slightly over ten < 1253454996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :megabytes of disk space. This minimal system includes everything needed < 1253454996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to install and run a Debian GNU/Linux system, but it will be difficult < 1253454996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do anything beyond that without installing additional software < 1253454996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :packages. A typical installation without the X Window System requires < 1253454996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approximately forty megabytes of disk space, and a typical installation < 1253454998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the X Window System requires approximately sixty megabytes of disk < 1253455000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space. The actual disk space requirements will depend greatly on which < 1253455002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optional software packages you install, of course. < 1253455007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah I wanted a woody deb to unpack somewhere outside the normal tree < 1253455018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Debian GNU/Linux requires at least four megabytes of RAM during < 1253455018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installation and normal system use, and eight megabytes of RAM when < 1253455018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running the X Window System. < 1253455025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High-end, man. < 1253455029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253455052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of sysvinit, Debian has recently added this additional mess too: http://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts/DependencyBasedBoot < 1253455062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it isn't *that* old; ThinkPads were an established brand by then, after all. < 1253455073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: vomitous < 1253455098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate the .avail/.d symlink directory structure crap that's so common < 1253455100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pain to manipulate < 1253455115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Speaking of sysvinit, Debian has recently added this additional mess too: http://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts/DependencyBasedBoot <-- huh, doesn't everyone just use dep based boot scripts already? < 1253455125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Has anyone ever actually used Jigdo? < 1253455134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, never heard of it, what is it? < 1253455146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a method that Debian use to distribute .isos and nobody else uses ever. < 1253455149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also nobody downloads it that way. < 1253455149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever. < 1253455157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must predate bittorrent because it's very wtf. < 1253455168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253455170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, because not everything has dependency information in initscripts? < 1253455173 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: System to take template file and packages and build bit-exact ISO from those. < 1253455182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gentoo used it for *years* < 1253455208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yes, AnMaster can do that < 1253455211 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it uses the same packages as downloaded by apt-get. Saves a lot of disk space from servers. < 1253455212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*instantrimshot.com* < 1253455222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm < 1253455233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, since all the servers carry the .isos too. < 1253455247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It frees up NEGATIVE space! Woohoo! :P < 1253455253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, use venti, thus the same files only need to be stored once < 1253455261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that you get abount +/- 0 < 1253455262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, .iso vs a bunch of packages. < 1253455270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shared files. < 1253455298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't the iso have the package files stored as such on it to be able to install them. Well the base system packages only obviously < 1253455310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus of course a few binaries to run the installer < 1253455318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, installer itself and support files < 1253455320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but I doubt there are too many shared *blocks*. < 1253455328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe < 1253455328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly it'll be AAAABBBB vs AAAB. < 1253455329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my system, "mzscheme" and "scratchbox-core" both are missing the LSB tags. < 1253455329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1253455334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly it'll be AAAABBBB vs AAABBBBC. < 1253455335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1253455347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even a one byte misalignment will remove all sharing. < 1253455354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why does mzscheme need a init script... < 1253455360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an* < 1253455374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It has that HTTP server it can optionally start at boot-up. < 1253455381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuh < 1253455387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1253455393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone uses it, but it exists. < 1253455395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's PLT Scheme, not MzScheme that has that, though. < 1253455397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, they do < 1253455401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLT Scheme is an environment < 1253455403 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The template would only need support for literal insert and range copy from... Then one-byte misalignments wouldn't matter too much. < 1253455406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MzScheme is the implementation < 1253455415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite a neat server < 1253455425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has continuation-based web programming and all that nice stuff. < 1253455450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from gentoo init script for iptables: < 1253455452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depend() { < 1253455452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : before net < 1253455452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : use logger < 1253455452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1253455454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: True, but he advocated changing the storage mechanism to venti, which wouldn't help. < 1253455458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and making no other changes) < 1253455458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are optional ones < 1253455472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for required ones it would use "need" instead of "use" < 1253455490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so Gentoo doesn't use the LSB-standard dependency tags then, but does a custom thing? < 1253455501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also "provide" for stuff like postfix/qmail/sendmail/ssmtp. They all "provide mta" < 1253455503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuuuck the LSB. < 1253455514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the FHS. For some reason standards always err to the worse. < 1253455515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep < 1253455550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lsb is not something ever heard of on gentoo. There was even a 1 april joke about gentoo switching to LSB and thus also RPM. < 1253455561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPM *vomit < 1253455561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1253455564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n\*/*/ < 1253455593 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just have full template image, compress it with something that can compress repetitions real well (bzip2 for instance) and have series of ranged XORs from. < 1253455622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This hostname could probably do with being changed from "ehird-desktop". < 1253455634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To... bip. Or blip. < 1253455723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blop. Yes, that's it. Blop. < 1253455740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now how do I change my hostname all point-'n-clicky with Ubuntu... < 1253455772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw, gentoo doesn't use the classical runlevels either < 1253455785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can boot Linux easily without runlevels? < 1253455791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwahaha! Another thing to scrap! < 1253455799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you need 0 and 6 at least < 1253455803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 too I guess < 1253455807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus an extra one < 1253455817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gentoo uses 0,1,3,6 < 1253455824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where 3 is the normal one < 1253455826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you use stock init though, right? < 1253455838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unsure. I think 0 and 6 at least may have special meanings < 1253455839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not sure I really want to go interacting with the kernel at such an intimate level. < 1253455845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not ready for that kind of relationship. < 1253455861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. gentoo uses named runlevels < 1253455866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "default" and "boot" < 1253455873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What's 6? Isn't that higher than the usual desktoppy runlevel?) < 1253455875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can create extra ones as you like < 1253455878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 6 is reboot < 1253455881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is halt < 1253455886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is single user. < 1253455892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that, definitions vary < 1253455896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's anything that actually parses PATH itself. < 1253455900 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little known, but there are runlevels 7, 8 and 9 too. Usually not used for anything. < 1253455905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about libc? < 1253455907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just PATH=magic and then override the lookup thing. < 1253455911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: libc is mine, all mine! < 1253455914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, really? < 1253455915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253455921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the separate-package-directory thing.) < 1253455923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen the different numeric runlevels used much anywhere either; Debian has pretty much identical 2-5, I think; Slackware differentiated between "X" and "not X". < 1253455962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and I think some apps do too. iirc I was working on doing that in befunge, for use with the system() < 1253455980 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And then the sysvinit has special levels a, b and c. But those aren't runlevels. < 1253455988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Durnit. < 1253455997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, =) < 1253456012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm < 1253456017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll point PATH=/magic, where /magic is an FS with every file possible, and they're all executable, and they all print out "Stop parsing PATH, you nincompoop." and then exit. < 1253456019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1253456039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is wrong with PATH < 1253456057 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They instead execute some commands but don't change the runlevel (unlike 'init 7', which really would switch runlevel). < 1253456065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Separate package directories = oh, your PATH is 3MiB big. < 1253456065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh it seems my ubuntu laptop uses runlevel 2 for normal usage < 1253456077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it dropped most of the normal runlevel-y stuff too < 1253456092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, "oh, you have a directory cluttering up your FS just to cater to stubborn programs with symlinks or whatever". < 1253456097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that what happens on that distro which I forgot the name of atm < 1253456116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tried it iirc < 1253456116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gobo uses shim directories, yes. < 1253456122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes gobo < 1253456130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoboLinux also has GNOME 2.0 in its repositories, iirc. < 1253456131 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, $PATH can't be 3MB... :-> < 1253456133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally. < 1253456135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNOME 2.0, full stop. < 1253456137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "shim"? isn't that something related to scanner in windows? < 1253456141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still used Sawfish. < 1253456147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from around 2000. < 1253456148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some dll or such < 1253456157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why not? < 1253456160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still have it in their repositories as the latest gnome! < 1253456211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ file /bin/* | grep static < 1253456211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ld_static: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, stripped < 1253456213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from ubuntu < 1253456215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why < 1253456218 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Kernel limits for amount of information that can be passed through exec (since that must be allocated as kernel memory). < 1253456223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that is ld as in ld from binutils < 1253456225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as in ld.so < 1253456267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :provided by binutils-static < 1253456287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh used for building kernel modules during boot on the fly if needed for mounting /usr it seems < 1253456292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not compiling, just linking < 1253456296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1253456303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sure does sound slow. < 1253456319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~$ file /usr/bin/* | grep static < 1253456320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/mbchk: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, stripped < 1253456320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~$ < 1253456321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queer. < 1253456330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mbchk - check the format of a Multiboot kernel < 1253456331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I guess it is meant for when you boot with a new kernel < 1253456334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Grub. < 1253456347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just going to say it was grub related iirc < 1253456356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is /sbin/ldconfig.real < 1253456356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253456382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/sbin/grub is obviously static. < 1253456388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldconfig.real too, yeah. < 1253456389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes, ldconfig must be static < 1253456390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all. < 1253456402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/klibc-twzlwPED6FKuYrtGTmP6bjJ3CHQ.so: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, stripped < 1253456404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an impressive filename. < 1253456419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well... that's it. < 1253456429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have some more in /usr/sbin, called unhide-linux26, unhide-posix, unhide-tcp < 1253456436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's only one file per directory on Ubuntu that's static, heh. < 1253456439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sometimes even 0. < 1253456446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion: Static binaries? Nosiree, not here. < 1253456456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, those unhide ones are related to some rootkit checker iirc < 1253456464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have /usr/bin/makedumpfile < 1253456468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this on ubuntu < 1253456484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what makedumpfile is < 1253456505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a rather closer to stock Ubuntu, so mine is likely more typical. < 1253456506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh related to kexec-to-dump-stuff-on-oops it seems < 1253456517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I have installed a few more packages yes < 1253456518 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason its named that way is that klibc has absolutely no forwards or backwards binary compatiblity. < 1253456541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, how comes? < 1253456542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Is it so incompatible that it requires something close to a UUID or keyboard-forehead in its name? < 1253456581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib/libnfsidmap_static.so.0.0.0: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, stripped < 1253456584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems ironic < 1253456594 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, ntfs-3g is statically linked here... < 1253456600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Alanis Morisette. < 1253456604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not ironic. < 1253456611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1253456631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, static and dynamic. Of course it probably means static something else < 1253456632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1253456634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet Another Sorta-Internet Pop Culture Reference. < 1253456647 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The dynamic linking mechanism it uses is really primitive. IIRC, it works by abusing PT_INTERP. < 1253456701 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: IIRC, programs linked against klibc claim that the klibc is dynamic linker to use. Then the kernel will link klibc into application. < 1253456712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PT_INTERP... isn't that the thing that says "I want /lib64/ld.so" or "I want /lib/ld-linux.so" (or whatever the 32-bit ld.so is called) < 1253456716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Ouch. < 1253456726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised, though. Linux is kludge upon kludge. < 1253456744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, PT_INTERP is POSIX though < 1253456751 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: AFAIK, that linking capaiblity is required for ELF support. < 1253456760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well no < 1253456765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ELF though < 1253456766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not POSIX < 1253456775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX is kludge upon kludge, except now you have to be very specific about exactly *what* kludges you use. < 1253456781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray for standardisation! < 1253456782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1253456796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, windows is way way worseEx. < 1253456820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has more of a history to justify its kludginess. < 1253456852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? everyone wants backward compatiblity. Not only the windows ppl < 1253456864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is OS X any better? Not IME < 1253456973 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian apt-get funkyness: Package that declares both conflicts and provodes for "essential" package will trigger nasty warning on install... :-/ < 1253457005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OS X's base is obviously quite kludgy, although the BSDs are generally more pure. < 1253457015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why on earth? < 1253457015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as soon as you step into Objective-C land it's very clean. < 1253457029 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The package I noted that in: xz-utils. It provodes and conflicts with lzma, which is considered essential. < 1253457039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Provode! < 1253457042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"file /bin/* /sbin/* /usr/bin/* /usr/sbin/* | grep static" outputs just /sbin/ldconfig, nothing else. < 1253457054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what distro? < 1253457059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian, of course. < 1253457083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it's not "of course" because I have that laptop too. < 1253457085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should make that their motto. < 1253457088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Debian, of course". < 1253457097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the NetBSD guys might complain. < 1253457097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sbin/lvm: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, stripped < 1253457097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sbin/lvm.static: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, stripped < 1253457098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution: < 1253457099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder... < 1253457104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth happened there < 1253457105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it runs Debian/kNetBSD, of course. < 1253457152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course of course, a distro is a distro < 1253457169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A distro is a distro, of course of course, and you can't ...something a distro, of course of course. < 1253457171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you don't understand that, ask ais) < 1253457190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sbin/iptables-static: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, stripped < 1253457192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1253457202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does what it says on the tin. < 1253457217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, it doesn't. Read again < 1253457227 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1253457229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hah. < 1253457259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, another thing that may be static: < 1253457260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/sbin/prelink: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, stripped < 1253457279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not standard on ubuntu < 1253457317 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I have one statically linked utility that has sole purpose of unlinking ld.so.cache... < 1253457351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm? < 1253457365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldconfig you mean? < 1253457401 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, 'saveme'. Absolutely no arguments to control it. < 1253457413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what distro < 1253457415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why < 1253457433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey they redesigned (slightly) kernel.org < 1253457445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/y/y,/ < 1253457452 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian < 1253457466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ok, why is saveme useful? < 1253457486 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If ld.so.cache happens to get busted for some reason... < 1253457502 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, its not ld.so.cache, its ld.so.preload < 1253457511 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-/ < 1253457520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never even seen ld.so.preload < 1253457556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from man ld.so... ld.so.preload seems like a extremely idiotic idea < 1253457812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoying that XChat and XChat-Gnome both suck. < 1253457837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, xchat-gnome yes. But xchat is quite good IMO. Best one after ERC. < 1253457859 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1253457861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, XChat-Gnome is better than XChat because it has all the flaws apart from overcomplexity, and is lighter. < 1253457867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still sucks. < 1253457869 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you live in the united states, it's too early to be awake < 1253457876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do? < 1253457881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, so do you. < 1253457897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, I thought ehird was in UK? < 1253457910 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253457920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. < 1253457925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So bsmntbombdood is on crack or something. < 1253457927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, yes I'm 100% sure, unless he moved very recently < 1253457952 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr < 1253457964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood is confused about my location as he is his gender. < 1253457984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, parse error < 1253457996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after "as") < 1253457997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood becomes bsmntbombgirl every now and then and vice versa :-P < 1253458001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253458036 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am 100% sure ehird lives in on of those great lakes states < 1253458046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: how < 1253458055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering what kind of thought process lead to this < 1253458067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but from my /whois you can plainly see I'm in the UK. or at least sshing in there...) < 1253458072 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you said so < 1253458076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...when? < 1253458076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, * [ehird] (n=ehird@91.105.73.170): Elliott Hird < 1253458082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: geoip < 1253458083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to look up that IP < 1253458085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253458089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was going to get to that! < 1253458093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: no seriously, who are you confusing me with? :D < 1253458128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIPE claims it is UK when I looked it up that way < 1253458139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inetnum: 91.105.64.0 - 91.105.127.255 < 1253458140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :descr: Range2 NewcastleUT /18 < 1253458145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnt-by: Wanadoo-UK-MNT < 1253458167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and later down there is a more specific entry < 1253458171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanadoo? I don't think they've absorbed Orange... < 1253458174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :route: 91.104.0.0/13 < 1253458174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :descr: Range2 LLU Subs < 1253458177 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most odd < 1253458178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, of course. < 1253458179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :origin: AS35736 < 1253458179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnt-by: Wanadoo-UK-MNT < 1253458179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source: RIPE # Filtered < 1253458179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1253458188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1253458190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1253458192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you do? < 1253458192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1253458195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's news < 1253458197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orange is Wanadoo < 1253458205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, so I moved from Wanadoo to other ISPs to Wanadoo. < 1253458206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun. < 1253458210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was called freeserve before, but. < 1253458220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, weren't you going to switch to some tiny ISP? < 1253458224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253458231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened with those plans? < 1253458237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as with new computer plans? < 1253458237 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's a reasonable time then < 1253458240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could happen immediately, but you know me. I'd want to have the domain ready for the DNS beforehand. < 1253458246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: but you live in the US too < 1253458248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypocrite :p < 1253458256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The new computer plans just morphed. < 1253458267 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Patashu/SteampunkX - MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2 ." < 1253458282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bsmntbombdood: but you live in the US too <-- aha! you wouldn't have said "too" unless you were lying above about being in UK! ;P < 1253458288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell even uses Yahoo Messenger? < 1253458289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dun dun dun < 1253458296 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1253458331 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm having a weird hungover can't sleep after 5 hours of sleep < 1253458355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat an unborn fetus < 1253458366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't help hangovers, but it enrages pro-lifers < 1253458379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...also anti-cannibalists, but < 1253458402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eat an unborn fetus <-- somehow that first parsed as "urban" on first try. < 1253458413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the organic country fetuses. < 1253458418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Support local farmers! < 1253458434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait for it. You want to know what happened on the second try? < 1253458438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unicorn" < 1253458444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then finally correct on the third try < 1253458459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unborn urban unicorn fetuses. < 1253458465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253458786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why window resizing doesn't show it as you do it with Compiz. < 1253458798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, come on; how am I supposed to size a window to my liking if I don't know what it'll look like? < 1253458820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed in Compiz control center. < 1253458886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally it's a bit jerky, like window moving. Sigh. < 1253458902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice to have a card that has literally no good drivers that I can use, no matter what freedoms I want. < 1253458931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Naturally it's a bit jerky, like window moving. Sigh. <-- even with metacity on intel graphics it works very nice < 1253458944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for kwin on nvidia drivers. But that is expected < 1253458952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, Metacity doesn't resize the window in-place does it? < 1253458966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the fact is that I'm stuck using the shitty radeon driver. < 1253458970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it previews as I go along at least < 1253458991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Window moving is smooth, I guess; it just flickers. < 1253458994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tiny jerk every now and then for konsole, none at all in kate < 1253458996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it redraws each pixel. < 1253458999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a bit jerky at the edges. < 1253459008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very slow. < 1253459011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of animation < 1253459014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the actual moving is quick) < 1253459019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not so here. < 1253459026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the fact is that I'm stuck using the shitty radeon driver. < 1253459026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the fact is that I'm stuck using the shitty radeon driver. < 1253459026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the fact is that I'm stuck using the shitty radeon driver. < 1253459026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the fact is that I'm stuck using the shitty radeon driver. < 1253459032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253459033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am aware what the problem is. < 1253459038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just gloating :P < 1253459040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radeonhd doesn't seem to give me 3D, or something, and the only fglrx supporting this X11 version doesn't support my card. < 1253459048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thing is, it worked last Ubuntu < 1253459060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where fglrx was a version supporting my card, and the X11 version was older < 1253459067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was perfect and flowers and kittens then < 1253459067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, file a bug which devs will look at in a few months if you are lucky < 1253459073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1253459074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to what < 1253459077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu < 1253459080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1253459081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying what < 1253459085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"please make this not suck"? < 1253459098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that seems to be what half the bugs currently there do < 1253459102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll respond "lol donate code and cocksucking to these wonderful LIBRE drivers" < 1253459115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps even just "the free drivers work perfectly. what are you talking about." < 1253459126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NO. FLAWS." < 1253459132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there isn't a lot anyone can do about closed source not supporting current systems < 1253459145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Except that the hardware specs for ATI cards are Free. < 1253459154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, work is underway iirc < 1253459160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, very slowly. < 1253459165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specs haven't been free for very long < 1253459167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not help! < 1253459189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about I bludgeon the X11 developers to death and tell them to never break backwards-compatibility ever again? :P < 1253459199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am willing to sacrifice my principles for fglrx! < 1253459207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then you get something like POSIX in a few years < 1253459216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fuck, my notebook will have an even older ATI card < 1253459221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, patches on patches < 1253459222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill me XD < 1253459229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, buy a new notebook then < 1253459236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it'll fail horribly at Compiz, most likely < 1253459236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead < 1253459236 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1253459238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least be superfluous < 1253459241 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will there ever be an x12? < 1253459242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no worries < 1253459245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Widescreen, dude < 1253459249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, x12 of what? < 1253459249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: no < 1253459252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: X11 < 1253459256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the 11th version of X < 1253459257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can survive widescreen < 1253459259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1253459262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253459279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like there will never be Mac OS Y (or Mac OS XI) < 1253459284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably) < 1253459300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, because the only acceptable widescreen is 12", which, while being as wide as a 14" 4:3, has such a huge screen border and is widescreen, and so it's really tiny. < 1253459314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12" 16:10 + big border is simply not an acceptable screen size for my main machine. < 1253459324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why the big border < 1253459329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's what the X200 has. < 1253459333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1253459345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is "big border" by your standards < 1253459359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.goodcleantech.com/images/Lenovo%20X200.jpg < 1253459391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you want comparison, < 1253459406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/34871.jpg < 1253459412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pictured: Big border, big border, small border. < 1253459439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, at least with X.Org we finally got a X11R7; it was X11R6 for quite a long long time. (1994-2005, based on Wikipedia; they got from X1 to X11 in three years, from X11 to X11R6 in seven, and it took eleven years to get through X11R6...) < 1253459439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it simply makes the already tiny 12" 16:10 screen even smaller. < 1253459455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an ultraultraportable; a secondary machine for those with money. < 1253459460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the middle one seems to have same border size as the left one? < 1253459462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And little sense. < 1253459465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1253459484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X200, X300 (13", has CD drive, slower processor), XX61 < 1253459486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*X61 < 1253459495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(X300 is concurrent with X200) < 1253459531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also what is wrong with that? Just consider paintings, often with huge borders. Gold coloured. Compared to those, that monitor border is really subtle and small < 1253459537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1253459547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just imagine some baroque border around a monitor < 1253459558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please shut up, or I'll start taking what you're saying seriously. < 1253459579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1253459629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway the X200 seems to have acceptable border size < 1253459636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, for a larger laptop. < 1253459648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the other pic, with three computers, what model is the thin border one < 1253459650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That whole thing is a bit over 30.5cm wide. < 1253459657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do the maths. < 1253459663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That screen is *tiny*. < 1253459666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: X61, the older X series. < 1253459691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about flushed to edges, I would say it's keyboard is that < 1253459695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 12" and really tiny, but its screen is actually taller, and it is much smaller psychologically (as opposed to being as wide as a normal 14" 4:3 notebook) < 1253459737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want the X61, but it's at least understandable, as opposed to the insane X200: all the wideness of a full-sized notebook, none of the screen. < 1253459766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the extra border though for the wide screen one < 1253459769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make sense < 1253459778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Camera, antennas, etc. < 1253459783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cheaper display, ... :P) < 1253459787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why camera? < 1253459792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Joking on that last one; the X200 is far from cheap.) < 1253459797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For... camera purposes? < 1253459803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know? A camera? < 1253459810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes pictures and videos of you? < 1253459812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but why waste space on that < 1253459826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a waste because you don't use it? < 1253459845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, when you can use that for making the border smaller < 1253459870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a no computer. They have infinitely small borders. < 1253459872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, no. < 1253459874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antennas. < 1253459880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh about older thinkpads, you said you wanted pre-n? I guess you plan to get a PC-card then < 1253459881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, dropping WiFi is not an option. < 1253459894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will stick out a fair bit < 1253459895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't need it < 1253459899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1253459918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said I can get 800kiB/s with g < 1253459962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes assuming good reception it should work out. You will get lower speed when you are getting near the limit of the range of the AP of course < 1253459989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as I can get 800kiB/s from across the room the router is in, I'm fine. < 1253459996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, should work < 1253460026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get something like 2-3 MB/s for scp-over-802.11g here. < 1253460032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one of those infamous Linksys Linux blue-green-and-antennas routers, which probably does WiFi well. < 1253460044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infamous? < 1253460046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 1000 or 1024 < 1253460063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://pcgenie.co.nz/images/products/WRT54GL.jpg < 1253460074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much "the" wireless router for Linux people, no? < 1253460076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah those < 1253460085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably MiB/s, I guess that's what scp says. < 1253460096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and possibly. I don't have that model though. < 1253460098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what router? < 1253460101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some speedtouch instead < 1253460104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://masnugie.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/wap54g2.jpg < 1253460119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Linksys buddies! :P < 1253460122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L or normal? < 1253460124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fizzie, different model < 1253460130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the front panel < 1253460135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different number of green dots < 1253460138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just newer/older < 1253460141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I doubt he took that photo < 1253460148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there wasn't a "non-L" model of WAP54G back then; I'm not sure there is one now. < 1253460157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the access point one, lacking the Ethernet switch. < 1253460160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, different model! Newer model and older model. < 1253460160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There is. < 1253460163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are they same? < 1253460168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-L was Linux, then non-L became vxworks. < 1253460181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then L became Linux for the grubby GPLists and firmware replacers. < 1253460184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, well, it was "non-L" back when there were only non-L models. < 1253460226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's the access point one, lacking the Ethernet switch. <-- no ethernet at all? Or just one ethernet? < 1253460239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just one interface. < 1253460241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253460306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The WRT54G has a hardware switch; IIRC the different ports show up to the kernel as one interface but the packets get 802.1Q vlan tags appropriately. < 1253460321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the WAP one has just a 2 MiB flash, it's a bit tricky to get alternative firmware for it; at least the default openwrt builds are too fat to fit. < 1253460325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why vlan? < 1253460360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean it is somehow faked as one interface + vlan tags instead of several interfaces? < 1253460361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253460361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So you can have different behaviour for the ports; one of them is the "WAN" port, for external interweb, while the others are for LAN. < 1253460369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1253460412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, about 2 MiB flash, what about using a basic software that then loads the rest over PXE boot or root on nfs < 1253460415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from somewhere on the LAN < 1253460417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not really "faked" as one interface, it's just that the Ethernet switching is done in hardware; there's just one switch port directly connected to the WRT board and configured to get those vlan tags. (This is all based on what I remember about it.) < 1253460433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 8 MiB of RAM, so, uh, there's not too much of that either. < 1253460445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1253460453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More RAM than flash :D < 1253460474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Original WRT54G has 4 MiB flash and 16 MiB RAM, so that's a bit larger. < 1253460478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not strange at all. After all, it will likely need to keep lots of routing info in ram < 1253460479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what not < 1253460677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks about sandboxing < 1253460798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, kernel module may be the way to go. Hook in around the same place as SELinux and do stuff there? < 1253460799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's a 6-port programmable switch, and the default configuration puts ports 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 in vlan0, and ports 0 and 5 to vlan1; 0 is the one labeled "WAN", 1-4 are the LAN ports and 5 is the one that's eth0 to the WRT; then the stock firmware bridges vlan0 and eth1 (LAN and wifi), and configures routing between vlan1 (interwebs) and br0 (locals). < 1253460813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i mean theoretical; to start with i will just ld_preload For My Sanity. < 1253460839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, why are there two WAN ports? < 1253460873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? < 1253460885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err you said 0 and 5 were on the same vlan? < 1253460908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; to port 0 you connect whatever you want, and port 5 is the one that's physically wired to the WRT board. < 1253460920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, LD_PRELOAD... Sanity? Surely you are joking. < 1253460929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't be very useful to have a single-port vlan on an Ethernet switch, given that the packets wouldn't, you know, go anywhere. < 1253460939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to do and the simplest method to test without assembling a distro. < 1253460955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh so port 5 is internal? < 1253460955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just add "LD_PRELOAD=foo.so" to the start of a command and I'm sorted. < 1253460989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and is connected to eth0. I seriously hope that it is just a few wires, rather than actually an ethernet connector inside < 1253460991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It also has the special "keep the vlan tags" bit set; for the other ports, the switch doesn't add those. < 1253461014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, do you think you can root a box with just syscalls? < 1253461024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably on the same piece of board. < 1253461044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on if I'm root or not at that point. If i'm root in a chroot I could break out of it < 1253461048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can root a box at all, you can certainly root it with just syscalls, given that everything else is just user-mode code you could include in the binary. < 1253461053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope. < 1253461053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it was an old kernel I could abuse vmsplice or whatever < 1253461084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to figure out how to crack anarchy golf using its seeming lack of syscall overriding :-) < 1253461122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, you couldn't root it as such, but possibly do other unintended things, depending on where the process is. Maybe fill /tmp or something? < 1253461128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or find out what users exist in /etc/passwd < 1253461140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"can allocate >50MB memory" is one of the crack conditions < 1253461147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if it runs without privs and in an empty chroot... < 1253461149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In total: < 1253461150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * can access network < 1253461150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * can be root < 1253461150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * can allocate >50MB memory < 1253461150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * meet stupid things < 1253461166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, all at once or any of them? < 1253461171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you meet stupid things, it is the bug, I gather. < 1253461174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay Engrish! < 1253461175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Any. < 1253461223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, there are other ways to restrict the ones mentioned. For network: iptables with "owner" match to match uid, pid or executable name iirc. For allocation there is limits. < 1253461260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "be root" well obviously systemcalls doesn't allow that without going through authorised ways, like suid binaries < 1253461267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, given a kernel that does what it should, you should be able to block those three things without any manual syscall blocking. < 1253461302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about meeting stupid things < 1253461314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What? But you do that every day here on the channel! < 1253461326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! I am NOT a "thing". < 1253461327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never met anyone when walking through the directory hierarchy. It's so lonely in /etc... < 1253461328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253461333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :P < 1253461380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should write some app to allow you to walk around on your file system in a 3D env < 1253461387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly this has been done < 1253461390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Unix. I know this! < 1253461399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1253461409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsn ftw < 1253461416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsn? < 1253461431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsn is unix, she knows this. < 1253461433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives "FOX Sports" as first hit in google < 1253461439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.siliconbunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/3060c037-069f-4715-a01e-c30e53e505a2.jpg < 1253461463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As seen famously in Jurassic Park. < 1253461463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ooh nice, but I was thinking more along the lines of rougelike in 3D < 1253461468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :""It's the Unix system!" < 1253461469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Quite so! < 1253461475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: She knows this. < 1253461477 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253461482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She has it at school, yes. < 1253461483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get the references < 1253461485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253461492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1253461503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen jurassic park btw < 1253461504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell it's a mainframe because it has blinkenlights and is big. < 1253461510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *I < 1253461514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I've < 1253461519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1253461521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to that comment I just wrote "jurassic machine" instead of "jurassic park". < 1253461528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JURASSIC MACHINE < 1253461542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has a more badass terminologe ever been used? < 1253461556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminology, n. plural of terminologe. < 1253461556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107290/quotes has the quote (just search for "UNIX") but without context it really doesn't say much. < 1253461562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what are you on about. Can you explain what the hell you are talking about < 1253461574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1253461586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fsn < 1253461597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how that quotes page is filled with terrible quotes < 1253461609 0 :adam_d_!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-2-171.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253461617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1253461629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Henry Wu: You're implying that a group composed entirely of female animals will... breed? < 1253461629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr. Ian Malcolm: No, I'm simply saying that life, uh... finds a way. < 1253461634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wat? < 1253461640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is he expecting them to mutate their own genes in the past or something? < 1253461684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no what I had in mind was something like... a rouge like dungeon in 3D, representing your file system. < 1253461708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably adapt psdoom to file system use. < 1253461730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh that process killer one, ah yes seems a good base. < 1253461748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doom is ALWAYS a good base. < 1253461749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://psdoom.sourceforge.net/ even lists in Goals: "Possibly make other interfaces besides one to 'ps', such as a file management module. " < 1253461768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A restricted directory is accessed by getting the blue sudo key. < 1253461806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253461821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253461883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are all the screenshots so small < 1253461891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost unreadable < 1253461901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on my low dpi desktop display < 1253461912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completey unreadable on my laptop of course < 1253461917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from the 90s < 1253461925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's the real resolution of Doom < 1253461929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :320x200 < 1253461936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1993, dude < 1253461944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what dpi was the screens back then... < 1253461946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give it some Ctrl + magic < 1253461952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh, CRt. < 1253461954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CRT < 1253461955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Give it some Ctrl + magic <-- ? < 1253461959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-+ < 1253461962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zoom in < 1253461976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that zooms the text only it seems < 1253461987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, now it works < 1253462006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 320x200 would fill your whole, I dunno, 15" CRT? < 1253462010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So about 13" viewable) < 1253462032 0 :adam_d__!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-12-246.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253462075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's something like 30 dpi; not too shabby. Pixels smaller than a millimeter is nothing to sneer at. < 1253462095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, the pixels stretched out. < 1253462099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This *is* a CRT... < 1253462128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1253462146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRTs do have a native DPI-style limit from the shadow mask/aperture grille, though. < 1253462267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there tends to be a max res you can set on CRTs too. So clearly it is limited in some way. < 1253462314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what he said... < 1253462359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I agreed with him... < 1253462388 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253462522 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253462534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I found an old picture of that Performa mac I used to have: http://zem.fi/~fis/random.jpg < 1253462567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like an old Mac. < 1253462581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that keyboard is a clicky one. Hope you kept it. < 1253462588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice theme, btw. < 1253462591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stereotypically assumes fizzie keeps pictures of his computers instead of family < 1253462617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well, it was an ADB thing, and anyway "part of the box", so since I sold the computer, I sort-of had to give the keyboard with it too. < 1253462632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can tell by that flat power-on key. < 1253462644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses real mechanical keyswitches. Alps ones, not even manufactured any more. In fact that keyboard is famous. < 1253462649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn on the flat power < 1253462650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You coulda sold it for as much money as the computer. :P < 1253462669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I also found the posters I had on the wall at that apartment: http://zem.fi/~fis/juliste3.jpg < 1253462707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look like very dull old printer posters. < 1253462746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one on the left was written by mooz, I think. Too bad they're not really readable. < 1253462784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ECE7D4 is quite a nice background colour. < 1253462801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the right one a picture of? < 1253462803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a desktop, that is. < 1253462813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the isometric comic < 1253462815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that i think < 1253462835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it < 1253462862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'll try to locate the link. < 1253462873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://isometric.sixsided.org/strips/only_when_youre_ready/ < 1253462884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to http://www.pixelcomic.net/ :( < 1253462925 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253462972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the picture I was actually looking for was: http://zem.fi/~fis/skreen.jpg -- that's my old CRT, which I typically ran at 1600x1200 even though it didn't really support a resolution that high very well, especially at the edges of the screen, as you can probably see. < 1253463019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's a bit of extra blurring also from the photography, but the RGB misalignment is very real.) < 1253463090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That must have hurt your eyes. < 1253463095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#/usr/bin/?? < 1253463109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!/usr/bin/ff, I think. < 1253463114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "ff", the name of my Befunge interpreter. < 1253463115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that's a !. < 1253463116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a * < 1253463124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it's #!/... < 1253463132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffl? < 1253463137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the last character < 1253463139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff1? < 1253463145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a ], to end the prompt. < 1253463161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A... prompt? < 1253463165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is a shebang line. < 1253463174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought ] too first < 1253463175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the name of the channel; it's an irssi screenshot. < 1253463193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought that was the start of a shell in a split screen(1) type thing < 1253463197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun channel name < 1253463217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was one of those "like a query, except with four people" channels. < 1253463238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ff" is the name of your befunge interpreter? < 1253463239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very likely to have others that desperately wanted the coveted "#!/usr/bin/ff" channel too. < 1253463288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The name of one, yes. It was a strictly Befunge-93 type of thing, with an emphasis on "fast", and I don't think I ever released it. < 1253463304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1253463356 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: About the only distinctive thing in it was that it had (with suitable C preprocessor macros) four copies of most instructions, for all cardinal directions, with the IP movement parts and a computed-goto-to-next-instruction inlined directly after the instruction processing. < 1253463377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1253463384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- PRIVMSG :Too many recipients. Only 1 processed < 1253463391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC clients that disable a,b users suck! < 1253463392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1253463393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :servers < 1253463539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might also have had a nonstandard 256x256 playfield, to make it so that a single "unsigned char ip[2];" worked as the IP, with byte-sized ++ and -- doing automatic wrapping, and "*(unsigned short *)ip" as the offset to the playfield. < 1253463653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though mooz's approach of "80x25 playfield in an 82x27-sized block of memory, simple increment/decrement for IP movement, borders lined with special instructions that actually did the wrapping" was pretty fast too. < 1253463760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc :) (although it was obvious) < 1253463837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnah, I wonder how many days it will take me to unlearn the "hover a cursor in the top navigation bar in search of the Darths & Droids link" reflex. < 1253463865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why/ < 1253463867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1253463900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/\n\*\?/?/, just to make it oh-so-clear. < 1253463925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wonder, why unlearn, why such a reflex, why something else? (Not that I probably have any answers.) < 1253463927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, read it hours ago, and was afk when you joined < 1253463934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn :P < 1253463935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why unlearn? < 1253463967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the link is no longer there. < 1253463975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why is the link no longer there < 1253463983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I don't know. < 1253463989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253463989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean iwc nav bar < 1253463991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not your browser < 1253463993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253463993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are strange! < 1253463994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1253464002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's less amusing. < 1253464013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apologies. < 1253464013 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What did you use to measure speed? < 1253464015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah it irritates me too that they moved them to the bottom < 1253464035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change is bad and you should feel bad. < 1253464041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, I don't remember, it was so long ago. life.bf, I would guess. < 1253464061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it run forever? < 1253464097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you can measure the character output flow rate. :p < 1253464100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i've started going from mezzacotta instead of from iwc, less scrolling to find the links < 1253464136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/ < 1253464139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a bookmark, I've just gotten into the habit of navigating there from iwc. < 1253464139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1253464207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=156 actually made me laugh) < 1253464231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: DMM said in the forum the upper menu got too long when he added Archive Binge iirc < 1253464247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he divided it up < 1253464260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er bar < 1253464263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers RiemannZeta(Garfield) < 1253464268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, is there an Archive Binge link somewhere, then? < 1253464320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm good question < 1253464323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253464350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was Awkward Fumbles < 1253464353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's another DMM feature? Saw it advertised on somewhere, hadn't realized it was so. < 1253464371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archive Binge, I mean. < 1253464377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1253464425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i am wondering is how long they can keep that up if it gets popular, given that they've pledged not to use ads or earn money from it... < 1253464453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Though mooz's approach of "80x25 playfield in an 82x27-sized block of memory, simple increment/decrement for IP movement, borders lined with special instructions that actually did the wrapping" was pretty fast too. <-- hm.... I wonder if that could be translated to 98, and if so, how efficient it would be < 1253464464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to rewrite the borders as program expanded < 1253464481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how the program behaved it could be a huge slow down or a small speed up I guess < 1253464488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it was that Facebook link < 1253464489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound all that feasible; you'd have to somehow catch all possible deltas. < 1253464489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Befunge-93. < 1253464503 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you added something at the end. < 1253464508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1253464515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah hm true < 1253464525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The "quote ← comment" syntax is confusing. < 1253464526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it some other way, that way I always tend to miss what you say on the first read. < 1253464527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always forgot about messy non-cardinal deltas < 1253464538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confusing but common. < 1253464542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is <-- not ← < 1253464555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same general shape, anyway. < 1253464561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I shall use %% or // then I guess < 1253464567 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just alpha-conversion, they're all equivalent. < 1253464576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpha-conversion? < 1253464586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :α-conversion. < 1253464595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah, what does that term mean? < 1253464601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this context < 1253464608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Renaming bound variables in lambda expressions. < 1253464629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :λx.x is equivalent to λz.z. < 1253464680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253464800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, doing it in 98 should work fine, just handle noncardinals separately. < 1253464814 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrapping around with them is likely quite rare. < 1253464815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's just alpha-conversion, they're all equivalent. MY RESPONSE: is this equivalent too? < 1253464823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what i am wondering is how long they can keep that up if it gets popular, given that they've pledged not to use ads or earn money from it... < 1253464826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hosting is cheap < 1253464891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i suppose. it's just if it gets _really_ popular, and is used for a lot of external webcomics... < 1253464893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We only include webcomics whose authors have given us permission to make feeds of their work. We do this out of respect for their work and allowing authors to control the distribution of their own property." < 1253464896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's useless, then. < 1253464911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how much bandwidth could it possibly use < 1253464913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you have to detect that condition though < 1253464914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't host the images < 1253464923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at most, a few hundred gb a month < 1253464926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like $30 < 1253464928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so instead of testing if it is in range you now test if it is cardinal or not < 1253464938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i don't know. i suppose they must have thought about it. < 1253464946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why? < 1253464952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irregularwebcomic is really popular and free. < 1253464955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hosting is cheap. < 1253464958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's never the cost. < 1253464967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you're *HUGE*) < 1253464970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: otherwise they wouldn't make the pledge < 1253464983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just "ads in RSS feeds suck". < 1253464985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what i am wondering is how long they can keep that up if it gets popular, given that they've pledged not to use ads or earn money from it... <-- context? < 1253464995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus it's in an FAQ. < 1253464997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have all kinds of shit < 1253465002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shit. < 1253465032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh. it's just that i saw girl genius break their hosting quotas several times... admittedly once was because of their weird two-track structure suddenly merging, but they have broken it again after that < 1253465054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly they may be among the largest, they won a hugo after all < 1253465057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that comic on comicgenesis or some crap? < 1253465069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling says no. < 1253465074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, most people are cheapskates. < 1253465082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person running irregularwebcomic, which is quite big, probably isn't. < 1253465086 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253465148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose they _would_ be cheapskates on costs given they are actually earning a living from it < 1253465236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hosting bill for irregular webcomic might break $100. I don't know how much readership it has, really. < 1253465252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I estimate it to probably be around $50-75 if it's on a VPS, $30-40 otherwise. < 1253465259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More if it's a dedi, obviously.) < 1253465297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely recalls somewhere around two or three thousand < 1253465305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A month? < 1253465313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readers < 1253465317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. :P < 1253465324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's basically nothing. < 1253465329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1253465337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that was people who answered the polls < 1253465390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that cannot be right then < 1253465831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...uh. Going to code and I draw a blank. Let's install... gvim. Yeah. That'll do. For now. < 1253465837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn unfamiliar environments! < 1253465899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gvim for your gvisual needs! < 1253465940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet the modality is not yet learnt to me, so it's quite annoying < 1253465953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try emacs then? :P < 1253465981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably... < 1253465998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know me; I'll go and make a redesign of the menu system or something as soon as I start it. < 1253466006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing could be *useful*, dammit! < 1253466017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's worth a try. < 1253466036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: stop channeling zzo there :D < 1253466056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the menu system is really bad. :P < 1253466067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIEEEEEEEEEEE HOLY FUCK MY EYES < 1253466074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs uses its own antialiasing settings it seems... < 1253466081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad dog! Less hinting! Ow! Ow! Ow! < 1253466085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, X mode? < 1253466086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1253466089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The text is tingling goddammit. < 1253466111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because I don't believe in shoehorning a VT100 to emulate graphical controls. < 1253466115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is _so_ glad he doesn't have a keen sense of aesthetics < 1253466145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also because there's no reason not to, and it offers more integration with the world around it, and more font possibilities, and I can view images from inside emacs, and use multiple frames, and have scrollbars (albeit sucky ones). < 1253466146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, here emacs looks correct... 23.1.1 < 1253466166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to use less antialias than most other stuff, previously it used same < 1253466170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably your hinting/subpixel settings are similar enough to it that you don't notice, or identical. < 1253466171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just upgraded from 22.x) < 1253466184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use slight hinting + rgb, so I have quite "thick" text. < 1253466202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs' is very, very thin, very hinted, only slightly subpixeled text: it quite literally tingles at the edges. < 1253466202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I prefer "crisp" font most of the time < 1253466209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's overly-crisp. < 1253466223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm using "blurry" fonts because the crisp ones are basically horrible with freetype. < 1253466224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, here, emacs in X mode uses no antialias as far as I can tell < 1253466229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs 22 didn't. < 1253466232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs 23 does. < 1253466252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs 22 uses system settings as far as I can tell < 1253466257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for the fun bit: can I make this not suck using only the GUI, even getting to the config page? This will be amusing! < 1253466283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh boy, Emacs draws its own tooltip windows. < 1253466288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love the NIH. < 1253466292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it does? < 1253466295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1253466297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look completely normal here < 1253466305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this because the compiz window creation/fade out thing and window shadows appear. < 1253466313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's very annoying. < 1253466320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they look different (background, border, text size, etc.) < 1253466324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253466346 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1253466355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't kill a buffer from the menus. What an interesting oversight. < 1253466370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: That's not actually useful, but it just goes to show that these menus are very hodgepodge) < 1253466394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, the customize groups are so unhelpful. < 1253466441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can. in the file menu, select close? < 1253466457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not closing the file (it's not even a file), I'm killing the buffer. < 1253466470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously in a misguided attempt to provide a WIMP-like interface... < 1253466473 0 :adam_d__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adam_d < 1253466486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems strange that the Emacs developers would create an interface good for the novice at the expense of people who know how it works. < 1253466496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "But I want to eject the usb stick, not delete it" <-- ejecting on mac os X < 1253466497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they see menus as a useless kiddie sort of thing. < 1253466505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, that sucks. < 1253466516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think OS X is perfect, it's just good. < 1253466537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't help that Cmd-e ejects, and the key combo for moving to trash is another < 1253466541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is that with Emacs I have a minute chance of fixing it upstream, and can definitely fix it locally. < 1253466550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep < 1253466559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus why I complain. < 1253466565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's less pointless. < 1253466574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you may want Environment -> X < 1253466574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1253466594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no < 1253466597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope; that group appears to be completley useless. < 1253466599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*completely < 1253466607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, faces? < 1253466616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. First I want to move the scrollbar to the right, though. < 1253466622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You know, where it is on every other program.) < 1253466637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not every other app. Most ones yes, but there are other like emacs < 1253466645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not GTK ones, at least. < 1253466650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not good ones, at least.) < 1253466651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is true < 1253466661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Emacs GTK, of course. < 1253466685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point of a graphical Emacs is to fit into the environment, plus the scrollbars it uses otherwise are simply horrific. < 1253466694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't think you can do antialiasing with regular X. < 1253466706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, and the menus are doubly-horrific, but that doesn't matter if the menus are useless.) < 1253466727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why customize has no search. < 1253466737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it does. < 1253466744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the menus but not in the customize window. Heh. < 1253466760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Settings Matching Regexp..." vs "Options Matching Regexp..." < 1253466768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even think of a sane distinction you could make between those. < 1253466787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try #emacs ? < 1253466793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is more fun. :) < 1253466863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. Google time. < 1253466945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for me the emacs 23 fonts are WAY to stretched. Horrible. < 1253466951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm asking in #emacs < 1253466960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I found nothing useful in docs either < 1253466962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are the way to Stretched. < 1253466976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try decreasing font size. < 1253467073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is irritating. < 1253467097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well; time to bite the bullet and write some lisp. < 1253467104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First step, Google to move those fucking backup filse. < 1253467106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*files < 1253467127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, options -> set default font < 1253467130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems relevant < 1253467138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to find out what the old one uses < 1253467145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a bitmap font. < 1253467150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put the size down a bit, it'll look fine. < 1253467171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the command to inspect X stuff now again... < 1253467173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION save options < 1253467180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just ask emacs. < 1253467187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of window letting you click an X window and get stuff about it < 1253467187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yay, Custom added a bunch of shit to my .emacs. < 1253467193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not emacs related. X related < 1253467199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't they just do it using functions? < 1253467204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(setq transient-mark-mode t) < 1253467206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAS THAT SO HARD < 1253467209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever it is < 1253467210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do < 1253467245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I recommend Dejavu sans mono 10pt < 1253467248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's decent enough < 1253467290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (setq transient-mark-mode t) <-- what does that do? < 1253467327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's default nowadays, but Custom put it in there anyway. < 1253467331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it highlights the selection. < 1253467332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does the region-highlighting. < 1253467333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xft.hinting: 1 < 1253467333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xft.hintstyle: hintslight < 1253467338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So my Xft shit is fine < 1253467341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it indeed is the default nowadays. < 1253467411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the menu thing only lets you select from a list < 1253467417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't contain dejavu here at least < 1253467421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION disables the totally useless toolbar < 1253467428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's the gtk list. < 1253467440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1253467440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you're using 23/gtk? < 1253467445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I am < 1253467449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screenshot < 1253467455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.14.7) < 1253467455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : of 2009-09-19 on tux.lan < 1253467460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from about < 1253467460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screenshot of dialog < 1253467466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the emacs-internal list thing I've seen; but here the "set default fonts" does pop up the normal GTK+ font select-o-tron. < 1253467478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no dialog, just a pop up menu under mouse with a set of font selections < 1253467494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't screenshot it < 1253467494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well that's wrong. < 1253467497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are bitmap fonts. < 1253467497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it goes away < 1253467498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound so very GTK-integrated to me. < 1253467501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Your Emacs wasn't built with Xft. < 1253467506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe. < 1253467514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're hallucinating any antialiased fonts. < 1253467519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your Emacs wasn't built in a day, you know. < 1253467523 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253467541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can do an Emacs build with Xft but without the GTK font selection list, though. < 1253467550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe. I can tell that 23 and 22 looks very different, both show the same menu thingy though < 1253467564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you can move the scrollbar from the menus. < 1253467574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1253467587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Options -> View. < 1253467588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good I want it diagonally < 1253467602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you can persist hiding the toolbar with Save Options. Sigh. < 1253467603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not there < 1253467609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clear nobody uses this thiing. < 1253467611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1253467613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What < 1253467621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, options yes, no view under it < 1253467635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Options -> Show/Hide" here. < 1253467641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes there it is < 1253467663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253467671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf no emacs in my menus < 1253467672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1253467674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds < 1253467693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it just isn't showing that one. Odd. < 1253467749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1253467791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1253467792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More customize cruft, less suck. < 1253467798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for the biggun: Xft. Then backup files. Then tada. < 1253467808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, found it: M-x customize-faces RET default RET < 1253467813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change that number from 118 to 101 < 1253467822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then set and save < 1253467832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 102 h ere. < 1253467835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*here < 1253467847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok, well I compared emacs-22 and emacs-23 settings < 1253467861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's under Font Family? < 1253467863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and found that 122 and 101 was the different values, changing it fixed it < 1253467870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, adobe-courier < 1253467885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitmap fonts. < 1253467888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not antialiased. < 1253467890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no Xft. < 1253467893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs 23 fail. :P < 1253467898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, I like this look though < 1253467902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once it is set to 101 < 1253467914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a very nice look < 1253467920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Courier is ugly as fuck. < 1253467925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I wish Emacs didn't grab your cursor along as you scrolled. < 1253467928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's what SHE said < 1253467936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Women hate Courier too. < 1253467960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Argh, I wish Emacs didn't grab your cursor along as you scrolled. <-- what do you mean? I can't reproduce it < 1253467997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scroll down. Watch your text cursor scroll with it. < 1253468006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perform in other graphical app. Note this not happening, and your place is kept. < 1253468008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rage at Emacs. < 1253468118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that cursor < 1253468127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you meant the mouse cursor < 1253468217 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the pointer. < 1253468248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I poke things with it! < 1253468397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253468415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, other suggested editors: kate, gedit? < 1253468428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, pr'aps. < 1253468450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, kate is very good, and KDE4 didn't manage to mess it up too much. Just remember to enable some of the plugin thingies < 1253468477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does kate have over gedit? < 1253468563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing, though. < 1253468568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If KDE breaks my system, I blame you. :) < 1253468576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, side bar for open documents for example. More options. Can't find stuff like line numbers and such in gedit either < 1253468581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I looked very hard < 1253468582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, late KDE 4 versions seem like an improvement to me. What are its flaws, other than change? < 1253468602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gedit has such a sidebar. I mostly use tabs. What I value is a file tree to open and switch files of a given folder. < 1253468613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor man's project management. < 1253468618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the new search feature is worse IMO. On one hand it is search as you type now, which is nice < 1253468618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1253468634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :previously if you had your pointer in a word it would automatically enter that word when you hit ctrl-f < 1253468638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was nice < 1253468645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you need to select the word first for that to happen < 1253468653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find anywhere to change it < 1253468654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't bother me. < 1253468660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean what's wrong with KDE 4 in general. < 1253468663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not 4.0, of course. < 1253468665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say 4.2 onwards. < 1253468670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh I thought you meant kate < 1253468687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I just found it horrible when I tried. Plus buggy. And that was 4.2 iirc < 1253468706 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Horrible plus buggy" describes most software. < 1253468723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's descriptive. < 1253468727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I posit that you just hate change. < 1253468731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hah. Well stuff like how the menus worked and what not. I couldn't even find any way to make it better < 1253468740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the control center thingy kept segfaulting on me < 1253468742 0 :jix!n=jix@188-193-95-175-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253468747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that point I gave up < 1253468754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Kate doesn't use either my Gtk theme or my Gtk/Xresources font settings. < 1253468756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A reassuring start. < 1253468762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can change that easily < 1253468763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QGtkStyle, I hope there's a package. < 1253468769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't care, it's annoying. :P < 1253468776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just go to the KDE control center, and select GTK as theme < 1253468785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since the KDE 4 default theme is ugly. < 1253468795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I close Kate and it segfaults. < 1253468797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed. I dislike the default KDE 4 theme too < 1253468798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1253468802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even do anything to it. < 1253468802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't happen here < 1253468806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit. < 1253468821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No QGtkStyle package. < 1253468838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed, I think it is included with QT directly nowdays < 1253468855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clicking "Terminal" opens up a blank pane, instead of, say, "Hey! Install Konsole!" < 1253468860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polished, this thing :P < 1253468871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lemme guess, I need kcontrol or something else similarly bloated? < 1253468874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253468886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I installed konsole before. But it sounds like ubuntu package maintainers fail at dependencies. < 1253468893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's a Qt configuration thinig. < 1253468900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I guess you could do it manually in ~/.kde < 1253468902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet it's using the Gtk style, so...??? < 1253468906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look < 1253468927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas the Qt configuratormotron has no hinting thing. < 1253468930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I'll install kcontrol. < 1253468942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever it is these days. < 1253468963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep says ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals:widgetStyle=gtk+ < 1253468968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is an ini style file iirc < 1253468972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let me find section < 1253468997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :section should be [General] < 1253469009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see if that works < 1253469025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does, but it still uses gtk icons. < 1253469026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1253469026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kde < 1253469031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok. hm < 1253469043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And still acts like a KDE application, but that's a given.) < 1253469048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, let me look. < 1253469071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have it set to gtk for icons too iirc < 1253469096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./config/kdeglobals:Theme=gnome < 1253469097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253469109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Icons] < 1253469109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theme=gnome < 1253469111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be specific < 1253469113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same file < 1253469115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try that < 1253469134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and for hinting, it is again same file. section General < 1253469135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set < 1253469141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XftHintStyle=hintmedium < 1253469146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in [General] yes < 1253469147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hintslight, you mean. < 1253469151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change hint style as you want < 1253469160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything to make it use the Gtk/Gnome file chooser? < 1253469178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no idea, anything wrong with the KDE one? < 1253469188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's different :P < 1253469200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same icons are used. < 1253469209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries Theme=Human < 1253469248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: open kate, click "Close" toolbar icon while no file is open, file->quit < 1253469249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :segfault < 1253469257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also you may want to update the syntax highlight files: Settings -> Kate settings : Editor \ Open and saving : last tab, last button < 1253469261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hint change did nothing < 1253469268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm odd, brb phone < 1253469482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253469499 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253469920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think I'll try redcar. < 1253469972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? Redcar is moving to JRuby with SWT... < 1253469974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to shit up a project. < 1253470012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible font rendering, slow GUI, no desktop integration... < 1253470013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh. < 1253470484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1253470529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1253470600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: ld.so: object 'sandbox.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. < 1253470603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queer. < 1253470603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh another KDE 4 fuckup: in the "open files"-tab on the side of kate you used to have one click to select a file, makes sense. And this wasn't related to single/double click in file browser or file selection dialog < 1253470628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now in KDE 4 they are connected, you can't get double click in file chooser and single click in open file list < 1253470665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for in other selection dialogs, like the KDE control center one < 1253470707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I needed ./sandbox.so < 1253470712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course < 1253470741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~/Code/sandbox$ LD_PRELOAD=./sandbox.so ls < 1253470743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you prevent calling yourself when LD_PRELOADED and wanting to call the underlying libc function? < 1253470746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1253470749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sandbox.c sandbox.c~ sandbox.so < 1253470749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No exiting for you! < 1253470749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sandbox.c sandbox.c~ sandbox.so < 1253470749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No exiting for you! < 1253470749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sandbox.c sandbox.c~ sandbox.so < 1253470750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No exiting for you! < 1253470752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1253470757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I didn't expect that to happen. < 1253470762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does _start loop or something? < 1253470768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dlopen < 1253470773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your initialiser thing < 1253470783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what did you do to make that looping happen < 1253470789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void exit(int status) < 1253470789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1253470789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("No exiting for you!\n"); < 1253470789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1253470816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try it on some non-GNU app, some simple test app, like hello world with an exit(0); call at the end < 1253470818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION introduces an off-by-one error into strlen, cackles < 1253470845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basically, ls could well me doing some strange look afaik < 1253470846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and < 1253470852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit must return, gcc optimises for it < 1253470854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: exits normally (omitted the exit() since I know what it'd do) < 1253470857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if I do _exit? < 1253470860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253470863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must NOT return < 1253470864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1253470866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1253470889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_exit does nothing < 1253470897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basically GCC assumes functions marked with the right attribute can't return, Thus being able to optimise better. This probably messes up your exit() there < 1253470900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess start doesn't call it or whatever < 1253470905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -O0? :-P < 1253470918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no clue what happens at -O0 about it < 1253470957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the GCC docs mentioning this is in the attribute docs, and iirc it is vague and says something like "GCC may perform additional optimisations based on the knowledge it doesn't return" < 1253471030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc one effect of this, is that all code after it is considered dead. < 1253471145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that Slackware is not especially conductive to Slack. < 1253471158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you mean? < 1253471171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SubGenius that begat Slackware. < 1253471195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beget - make children; "Abraham begot Isaac"; "Men often father children but don't recognize them" < 1253471196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn < 1253471197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253471211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1253471217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jfgi < 1253471228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I googled it... define:begat < 1253471233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :........ < 1253471311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__attribute__((constructor)) static void init() { < 1253471313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.so = object? < 1253471314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think yes. < 1253471336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can say "begat" too; "beget, v. Past tense begot, arch. begat." (OED) < 1253471348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said begat originally. < 1253471366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C needs a ++ but for =. < 1253471369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, you're so archaic. < 1253471384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (inited =, 1); < 1253471388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, define:begat gave me definition of beget. < 1253471390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1253471391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1253471397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (!(inited =, 1)) return; < 1253471398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is < 1253471413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (!inited) {inited=1;return;};inited=1;/*dead code, can be removed*/ < 1253471423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, more likely ,= < 1253471424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, =, ? < 1253471429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ,= < 1253471436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : C needs a ++ but for =. < 1253471439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See my example. < 1253471443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1253471446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1253471450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's confusing but fun! < 1253471452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually in this case, < 1253471457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (!(inited++)) return; < 1253471458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would work < 1253471459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just evil < 1253471467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1253471469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd only work INT_MAX times or so < 1253471477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I need context to figure it out < 1253471486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1253471496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and why would the constructor be called more than once? < 1253471513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. Anagolf does it, so. < 1253471522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD_PRELOAD works in Mysterious Ways(TM). < 1253471538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes typeof(strlen) libc_strlen; works < 1253471559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC docs say: < 1253471560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may provide an optional integer priority to control the order in which constructor and destructor functions are run. A constructor with a smaller priority number runs before a constructor with a larger priority number; the opposite relationship holds for destructors. < 1253471627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sandbox.c:14: error: lvalue required as left operand of assignment < 1253471627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about _exit(), it is a builtin < 1253471629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not odd < 1253471634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But typeof(strlen) libc_strlen; doesn't die. < 1253471639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How strange. < 1253471650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1253471651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err...? < 1253471655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it defines libc_strlen as a function, not a funptr. < 1253471665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeof(strlen) *libc_strlen; works splendidly. < 1253471676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1253471681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1253471687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats writing out the type for one libc. < 1253471707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think going the kernel module path may be less messy < 1253471727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/623695.txt?key=lmfjxbqaw8t5txpf70z05a < 1253471730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's that messy at all? < 1253471730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also strlen isn't called directly all the time. Depending on options it could call a special _chk version instead < 1253471735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, it looks positively simple to me. < 1253471752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'd like results now and stuff, so this is the route for now. < 1253471760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, not for strlen iirc < 1253471772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for stuff like memcpu or sprintf or snprintf yes < 1253471787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why all the messiness? < 1253471788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, +1 and -1 don't change ls at all, which is odd. < 1253471792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What's messy about the pastie? < 1253471800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's simple and direct. < 1253471803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC-compiled binaries would probably use the builtin strlen too? < 1253471813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah. < 1253471818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try on ubuntu: nm -D /bin/* | grep chk | sort -n < 1253471822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll hijack... something... < 1253471823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what I mean < 1253471825 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why not just use strlen, though < 1253471829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: LD_PRELOAD, dude < 1253471837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the -1 < 1253471840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fucking with preloads < 1253471845 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253471847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does ls call strlen? < 1253471849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dlsym stuff is how to access the libc strlen to use < 1253471855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The gcc one, jesus christ shut up < 1253471857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it does < 1253471861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says nm < 1253471868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in this code path, evidently < 1253471868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nm says it calls libc one though < 1253471872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1253471886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh! < 1253471892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make... something... reverse the string. < 1253471894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The earlier part makes you wonder what sort of bytes the libc_strlen symbol will end up pointing at after a "typeof(strlen) libc_strlen;" -- I guess it must be an uninitialized function. < 1253471905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: typeof(strlen) *libc_strlen; now. < 1253471906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ltrace /bin/ls 2>&1 | grep strlen < 1253471908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's just a regular ol' funptr. < 1253471911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows it does strlen < 1253471914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, now, but earlier. < 1253471917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each entry here < 1253471925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, it'd error out if you didn't define it later, obviously. < 1253471927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. < 1253471933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it should affect stuff < 1253471953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1253471957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"return 1;" makes it break. < 1253471967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's just allocating memory, and -1 doesn't run into a boundary. < 1253471973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it escapes just in time. < 1253471976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it just uses it for figuring out width of columns < 1253471986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet, < 1253471986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size_t strlen(const char *s) < 1253471987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1253471987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return libc_strlen(s) * 2; < 1253471987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1253471988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segfaults too. < 1253471994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253472012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constant factors seem to work >_x < 1253472014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts a printf in dar < 1253472031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe because sometimes strlen is inlined, and sometimes not, and that messes up stuff when they disagree < 1253472047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there isn't a handy strrev() is there < 1253472055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strfry() will do! < 1253472063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size_t strlen(const char *s) < 1253472063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1253472063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : strfry(s); < 1253472063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return libc_strlen(s); < 1253472063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1253472064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles < 1253472076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that should give the same length < 1253472081 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try size_t n = libc_strlen(s); return n ? n - 1 : n; < 1253472082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it modifies the pointer. < 1253472090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true < 1253472091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So every time you strlen(), bam! Anagrammed underneath you. < 1253472096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I flagrantly violate my const promise. < 1253472111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segfault. How *boring*. < 1253472114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just going to point out that < 1253472117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, constant strings, clearly. < 1253472121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What to do, what to do. < 1253472136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sure < 1253472140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but -1 works < 1253472141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and +1 < 1253472146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and +3 < 1253472155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want a quick-and-dirty fix, you could mprotect the read-onlyness away. :p < 1253472168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On Linux it is always permissible to call mprotect() on any address in a process's address space." < 1253472168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In a constant string? < 1253472169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1253472170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that depends. If it is on an mmaped page where you don < 1253472179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't* have write access to the underlying file < 1253472185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think things may not wrok < 1253472187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work* < 1253472191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not completely sure though < 1253472210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERRORS < 1253472210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : EACCES The memory cannot be given the specified access. This can happen, for example, if you mmap(2) a file to which you have read-only access, < 1253472210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then ask mprotect() to mark it PROT_WRITE. < 1253472213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253472220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound very likely to happen, though. < 1253472223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: invalid argument `oatu' for `--color' < 1253472223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1253472241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're truly evil ehird < 1253472257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253472260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This evil: < 1253472260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size_t strlen(const char *s) < 1253472260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1253472260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : size_t length = libc_strlen(s); < 1253472260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mprotect(s, length, PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE); < 1253472260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : strfry(s); < 1253472262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return length; < 1253472264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1253472297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ LD_PRELOAD=./sandbox.so ls --color=toua < 1253472297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1253472300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um, don't you need to round the page size? < 1253472302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after several tries) < 1253472302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1253472311 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253472315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid things strlen()ing internal structures :P < 1253472330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, you don't; but it will change on page-sized granularity. < 1253472333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not surprised that things break when you do that sort of thing < 1253472342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1253472366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try doing something useful and allowed instead? < 1253472367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ LD_PRELOAD=./sandbox.so cat < 1253472367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: symbol lookup error: ./sandbox.so: undefined symbol: dlsym < 1253472367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, actually it does say that 'addr' should be page-aligned; it will still affect all pages that contain bytes in the [addr, addr+len-1] range. < 1253472368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's a new one. < 1253472394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and do check http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Other-Builtins.html for list of functions that are sometimes built in optimised < 1253472424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: symbol lookup error: ./sandbox.so: undefined symbol: dlsym < 1253472426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is up with that. < 1253472440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, forgot to link to ld? < 1253472442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253472442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dl < 1253472444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1253472449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder why ls does, if it works there. < 1253472459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? < 1253472477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still works with ls. < 1253472482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without -ldl < 1253472484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253472490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe ls uses it anyway < 1253472491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1253472500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1253472502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but why? < 1253472503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd agrees < 1253472508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ltrace it < 1253472511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1253472524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not used in normal code path < 1253472542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my best guess is some other library pulls it in, maybe the libselinux one on ubuntu < 1253472545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1253472612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually I can't find what it uses from libdl. Hm < 1253472646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed, libselinux pulls it in < 1253472649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there, explained < 1253472706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size_t strftime(char *s, size_t max, const char *format, const struct tm *tm) < 1253472706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1253472706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : strcpy(s, "Bork bork bork!"); < 1253472706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return max; < 1253472706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1253472729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, issue, you don't check if s is long enough < 1253472735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably is :-P < 1253472754 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why are you trying to screw with library functions, ehird? < 1253472757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehid, issue, you're writing "Bork bork bork" instead of the formatted time tm. < 1253472757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ LD_PRELOAD=./sandbox.so sh < 1253472758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ date < 1253472758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ork bork bork![GARBAGE] < 1253472763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, strncpy(s, "whatever", max); < 1253472766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ork bork bork![MORE GARBAGE] < 1253472769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 18:52:24 BST 2009 < 1253472771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive. < 1253472784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strcpy writes no \0, does it? :P < 1253472793 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1253472800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: My all-encompassing full-system sandboxing solution to become Linux distro. < 1253472800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it does. < 1253472805 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should. < 1253472805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says man page < 1253472814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehid, issue, you're writing "Bork bork bork" instead of the formatted time tm. < 1253472816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made me laugh btw. < 1253472819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, strncpy might not if buffer isn't large enough < 1253472836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh yeah < 1253472838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1253472839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I return max; < 1253472843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it prints up to max < 1253472844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1253472870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I fail to see how this is actually getting you anywhere yet < 1253472875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun. < 1253472878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sure, now you figured out how < 1253472883 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253472887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, why not get started on the actual hard stuff < 1253472888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ date < 1253472888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ork bork bork! ork bork bork! 20 18:54:39 BST 2009 < 1253472890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How confusing. < 1253472893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because this is amusing? < 1253472900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to think about the logistics before coding that stuff. < 1253472901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where does the last part come from? < 1253472907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what happened to the first b < 1253472910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea. Maybe it formats its own date. < 1253472911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no idea. < 1253472947 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253473015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing it does all the numeric formats by itself, and uses strcpy for the strings; it should say something like "Sun Sep 20 .." there. < 1253473028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, strftime, not strcpy. < 1253473033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it uses strcpy now! < 1253473041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doing it that way is pretty wtfy though < 1253473053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, why the chop off thing? < 1253473068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe it adds some guard thing first in the format and then removes it < 1253473069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing they want date to support all those GNUisms even on systems where the library strftime doesn't. < 1253473070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the source < 1253473092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't justify not just using the system one on systems where it *does* exist < 1253473098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, overriding strftime was boring. < 1253473121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strftime? Stir-fry time? < 1253473139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :String-format time. < 1253473141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway if you want to run as normal user and still prevent accessing random files as that user unless the user accepted it, then you need to do something about system calls. < 1253473142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess. < 1253473149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively do like that thing EgoBot uses < 1253473163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with empty chroot and dynamically created UID < 1253473190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1253473193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running under another user. < 1253473202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe chroot. < 1253473205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then you need a suid wrapper to let you change your UID < 1253473212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere < 1253473213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you stop teaching me how to program? Kthx. < 1253473233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not doing that, just teaching you linuxism that you seem to be wondering about earlier today < 1253473246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was answered tho < 1253473252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gruh, compiz frozen again < 1253473287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fixthis.com < 1253473293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try metacity. System -> Preferences -> Apperence, last tab < 1253473304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select the no effects option < 1253473309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switches to metacity < 1253473317 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I thought you used some random tiling window manager < 1253473319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, firstly, I had this problem with Metacity too. < 1253473325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh ok < 1253473328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1253473331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secondly, I can't even click windows.. < 1253473335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.{2}/./ < 1253473337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't do that. < 1253473343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I did, but then that installation was all bleh. < 1253473351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was for like a day, mind you. < 1253473360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you reproduce that issue < 1253473364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-F2 is your friend < 1253473367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, bleh? < 1253473379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, Ctrl-Alt-F2 under X iirc < 1253473396 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Alt-F2 < 1253473399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opening appearance preferences unbroked it. Hi ho! < 1253473414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1253473416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's broke again XD < 1253473419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-F2 again < 1253473423 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253473430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so open that and change to damn metacity < 1253473431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, except I can't type in alt-f2 this time < 1253473438 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253473438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I can! < 1253473441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I like compiz kthx < 1253473456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, now I can't click control center icons. < 1253473525 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run compiz --replace < 1253473526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiz deactivated! Failure ever-present! < 1253473546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Failure ever-present" sounds like an awesome error message < 1253473552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253473581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of like "the impossible happened" but in the other direction < 1253473642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253473643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway if you had same problem with metacity, why do you think it is related compiz and not something else in gnome or X? < 1253473658 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253473660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway if you had same problem with metacity, why do you think it is related compiz and not something else in gnome or X? < 1253473683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253473689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253473708 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253473713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wb < 1253473724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and did you see what I said last time? < 1253473729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, anyway if you had same problem with metacity, why do you think it is related compiz and not something else in gnome or X? < 1253473752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from ehird: 7.54 second(s) < 1253473753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253473774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253473783 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-97.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253473842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, coppro: probability of ehird having broken something important? < 1253473857 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :41% < 1253473869 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :94.1% < 1253473884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess would be closer to Deewiant's < 1253473905 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be he's just running something which doesn't work well < 1253473911 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Java applets do here :/ < 1253473917 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253473923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rebooted, said "meh". < 1253473932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1253473938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah. < 1253473940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they work fine for a while, then memory usage shoots up and I need to kill firefox < 1253473941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and did you see what I said last time? < 1253473941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a weird-ass glitch. < 1253473941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, anyway if you had same problem with metacity, why do you think it is related compiz and not something else in gnome or X? < 1253473951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop answering that question. If Ianswer it it'll involve me being annoyed. < 1253473954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1253473955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking < 1253473956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I need to killall java < 1253473956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I answer < 1253473958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead < 1253473965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree wrt killing all Java. < 1253473969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when working with my uni's web thingy < 1253473972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a very good idea. < 1253473986 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: eh. Firefox dies anyway if I kill Java < 1253473994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, didn't happen here < 1253474075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, also that web thingy likes to pop up dialogs saying stuff like: "are you sure you want to run this java thingy, unable to check signature due to missing root ". < 1253474090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Linux todo to be happy: Nice IRC client integrating with Gnome and Ubuntu's whole messaging thing. < 1253474094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I answer no, and it still works < 1253474099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux todo to be really happy: Sandboxing. Package manager. Distro. < 1253474099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as I kill java afterwards < 1253474112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I agree wrt killing all Java. ;; someone appreciate this < 1253474130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, saw it, didn't see anything to comment about it < 1253474136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a joke. < 1253474180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, On slashdot it would possibly have been moded "insightful" < 1253474185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever the term is < 1253474190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a JOKE. < 1253474202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was mine. < 1253474314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from gcc docs. "[...] Note, This feature is currently sorried out for Windows targets trying to " < 1253474318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep it ends there < 1253474321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make any sense < 1253474329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is "sorried"? < 1253474350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Function-Attributes.html (see "ms_abi/sysv_abi" section) < 1253474372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sortedD? < 1253474374 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-D < 1253474390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, possibly, but what are they trying to < 1253474438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just trying in general. < 1253474453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err you mean: Just trying to in general < 1253474460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they're trying to. < 1253474483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you must note that the feature is sorried out on Windows. < 1253474485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes duh of course, why didn't I think of that, it's obvious! < 1253474485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for now. < 1253474585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quarterly, I azure, an alien head affronts; II sable, a saltire gules of bacon; III sable, an envelope orangegules; IV azure, a look_of_disapproval at gaze; supported by narwhals combatant. Motto: "reddit", between an upvote gules and downvote azure in pale." < 1253474588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"orangegules" < 1253474602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: ^ should probably be in #reddit but that channel sucks and everyone there will have seen it.) < 1253474602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where is that from < 1253474605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reddit. < 1253474615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a comment? < 1253474621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, a unicorn. < 1253474626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253474649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it could be a comment or the original thread starting or a user profile for all I knew < 1253474666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thread starters are just comments, essentially. Also, reddit is a link site, dammit. < 1253474733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but I didn't know what to call the thing that is the link itself < 1253474744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus "thread starting" < 1253474769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OP. < 1253474780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPeration? < 1253474857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Original Post. < 1253474865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Poster. < 1253474877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253474891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so: OP a) Original Post b) Or Poster < 1253474893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1253474902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one fits the acronym too after all < 1253474926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes right I know what you meant, but...) < 1253474953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail needs a "go to first unread message" shortcut < 1253474976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so: OP a) Original Post b) Or Poster ;; someone appreciate this < 1253474979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253475000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it sucks < 1253475006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so did your joke < 1253475026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1253475755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the apt-cache command to list files in a pkg? < 1253475820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me if you find out < 1253475825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondered too < 1253475852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the files of an installed package, that's "dpkg-query -L foo"; I'm not sure if the apt cache contains the file lists of random packages. < 1253475876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1253475892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1253475899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's the command to find which package has a file :D < 1253475912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dpkg-query -S file" as long as file is installed. < 1253475930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and what's the file >< < 1253475932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*>_< < 1253475943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The path name you're looking for. < 1253475949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I just don't know what it is :D < 1253475971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can't really help you there, I have no clue what you're looking for. < 1253475975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253476001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, I'm trying to find the binary of the application browser that comes up when clicking More Applications in SUSE's "SLAB" Gnome menu. < 1253476004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it... /usr/share/libthai/thbrk.tri? < 1253476008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also available for other distros.) < 1253476008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, apt-file can find in non-installed apps iirc < 1253476012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just a guess.) < 1253476012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Alas, no. < 1253476019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why that < 1253476026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Who can say? < 1253476035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not I, certainly. < 1253476039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also suse? apt? < 1253476047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Also available for other distros.) < 1253476054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster pro reader 09. < 1253476056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253476078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, it is pro reader 1x, they couldn't get the paper work done in time < 1253476216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gnome-main-menu package has something called "application-browser", but it might be different. < 1253476233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ain't no binary here. < 1253476260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's the same thing, it puts the binary into /usr/lib/gnome-main-menu/application-browser possibly. < 1253476274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1253476274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sit < 1253476275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know, don't have installed that. < 1253476284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have installed that! < 1253476552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish has a reasonably flexible word order; "en ole asentanut sitä" would I guess be the standard form, but "en ole sitä asentanut" and "sitä en ole asentanut" and "asentanut en sitä ole" all don't sound *so* out-of-place, and have unambiguously the same meaning, albeit with a bit different emphasis. < 1253476555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to think of a less crappy way to authorise files than hooking into the gtk and qt file choosers to allow any file selected through them < 1253476558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that totally breaks cli apps < 1253476615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, use an ncurses GUI. But that also break cli apps < 1253476631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hm. most other things I can think of break cli apps < 1253476656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about using a server process that could ask the user in whatever way the user preferred? < 1253476670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be sort of GUI/CLI/whatever server < 1253476698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is that awesome-unzipper foo.zip -> ALLOW FILE HURR? ALLOW FILE DURR? ALLOW FILE I AM UBUNTU'S VISTA UAC AND MAY I SUCK YOUR COCK? is basically unacceptable < 1253476709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not least for the unpleasant homoerotic undertones. well. overtones. < 1253476715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i need to be clever about this < 1253476732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking maybe a staging area for a home directory, then it all gets put in one directory if it isn't already < 1253476738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to name it is the question, and besides that might still suck < 1253476740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253476745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heuristics will only take you so far < 1253476753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if we put it in a staging area and disallow file conflicts, then that would stop it shitting over the rest of home < 1253476761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if we don't directory it up < 1253476761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1253476775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that will work for unzipper, but what about editor? < 1253476778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not heuristics so much as predefined things for default applications < 1253476791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, editors are passed that file by CLI or file chooser, so they get it < 1253476801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., if a program can access a file, and saves to it, they can overwrite it < 1253476805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with backup, prolly) < 1253476864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about opening inside an app like emacs that uses the mode line + tab complete? < 1253476873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't work for file chooser < 1253476879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we patch emacs. < 1253476889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so apps won't run out of box? < 1253476891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It beats forcing a total rewrite of every application, i.e. a proper system for this. < 1253476898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure they will, they'll just nag you every time you try and use files. < 1253476924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this is non-ideal; so naturally I'm trying to think of better ways to make this Work. < 1253476959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM or HP or someone had a sandboxing system like this for Windows. It was easier since Windows has pretty much one file picker. < 1253476974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall the name. I think Sgeo mentioned it first. < 1253477004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused as to ehird's goal < 1253477059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run untrusted applications and not worry! It's like a MAGICAL CONDOM for your LINUX... um... genitals? Bad analogy. It's like a MAGICAL SANDBOXING CAPABILITY-BASED SECURITY SYSTEM for your LINUX OPERATING SYSTEM. < 1253477071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be guarded against flawed applications! ...To a degree! < 1253477073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253477089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fits in nicely with the per-user, multi-version, separated-namespace, purely-functional package manager! < 1253477101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, untrusted applications = all applications. < 1253477105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every user process runs under this thing. < 1253477126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, uh, overhead is a bit bad. < 1253477133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this sounds familiar < 1253477138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253477169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember some app to do basically that for GUI apps. Worked with firefox iirc < 1253477171 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253477172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't remember name < 1253477220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think SELinux does a sort of similar thing with the capabilities, and solves the application problem by writing gigantic lists of rules for every app. < 1253477220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptrace? < 1253477230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mine is like 10x less sucky, so. < 1253477236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, that is just a API for it < 1253477240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's AppArmor too < 1253477242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it wasn't selinux I meant < 1253477245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor apparmor < 1253477255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some research project < 1253477257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AppArmor requires patching to apps, doesn't it? < 1253477259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably *.edu < 1253477262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't just want this to be for apps. < 1253477266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed, awk, ls, cat, all run under it. < 1253477271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, it hooks into same place as selinux < 1253477302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, all the widely used ones are kernel based. I think LD_PRELOAD is just the wrong way to go < 1253477311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME < 1253477314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not sure about the ask user gui thing < 1253477317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT USING LD_PRELOAD AS A LONG TERM - FUCKING - SOLUTION < 1253477320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE < 1253477323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE MULTIPLE TIMES < 1253477330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't see what you gain then... < 1253477331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM DOING IT FOR EASY DEVELOPMENT AND EXPLORATION IN THE INITIAL STAGES ON THIS UBUNTU BOX < 1253477340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERGO, SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT LD_PRELOAD! < 1253477346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, you would have to rewrite it in a completely different way in the kernel < 1253477351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ehird, your solution being better requires it to exist < 1253477371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the seconds I spend replying to AnMaster being stupid are seconds I don't spend making it exist in the future. < 1253477397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact is that no system does anything near what my aim is, and if it does it almost certainly can't be applied in the way I'd like to < 1253477400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now, I'm not. I'm just saying that doing it in kernel and doing it in userspace means completely different implementations < 1253477426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no shit? < 1253477461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so I'm suggesting that doing it with LD_PRELOAD will be wasted effort since you won't be able to reuse much of it in kernel later. < 1253477500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not writing the full system with LD_PRELOAD. Now if you would kindly do what I asked and shut. the. fuck. up. about. LD_PRELOAD. that would be appreciated, as it's constituted about half your lines about this project for hours. < 1253477533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't true, I helped you with it above... < 1253477594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because half = all. < 1253477595 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d900fd@gateway/web/freenode/x-drzihnxzsysxxivs JOIN :#esoteric < 1253477614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, much more than half was help < 1253477629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day, AnMaster will understand hyperbole.* < 1253477630 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes ehird stfu < 1253477631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lie < 1253477794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exaggeration you mean < 1253477798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253477804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go look up "hyperbole". < 1253477818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253477823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that joke was so wasted on you < 1253477852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, agreed* < 1253477863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in general, not just atm < 1253477889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** Only in the context of ehird shutting up. < 1253477920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, there's a command for making me stfu in general. < 1253477933 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you sometimes have useful things to say < 1253477940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, jokes lost on ehird are awesome < 1253477956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well in general the jokes ehird doesn't understand are the best < 1253477977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun with your hur hur ehird is so stupid circlejerk, guys < 1253477978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253477999 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1253478005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my, why isn't ais523 here now. That would have been a lot more fun < 1253478297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, somehow I guess ehird sees himself as some sort of "best in humour", and thus gets very irritated when he don't get a joke. Especially when I said it (who he considers almost entirely lacking humour). < 1253478320 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the best was when I was making jokes about his immaturity < 1253478333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro oh? < 1253478351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he couldn't understand why my jokes about him being young were funny, because he's too young < 1253478361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1253478365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, how long ago was that? < 1253478389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION greps the logs < 1253478443 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.09.09 <-- starts around "double entendre" < 1253478470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, has google removed the "view as html" option? < 1253478485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh that recently? Thought it would be more like 2-3 years ago < 1253478515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, e's stilll pretty young < 1253478547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is searching for the actual double entendre < 1253478583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, was it you who said the double entendre? < 1253478611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, bsmntbombdood_ did, about 10 lines up < 1253478624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ah that explains it, I was looking at your lines only < 1253478682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, and yes that is pretty clear. In fact it seems more like a "single entendre" (I can only see the dirty meaning to tell the truth) < 1253478737 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253478752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must quit my bad habit of logreading, but please do note, later down: < 1253478753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49:17 oh snap < 1253478753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:49:21 i didn't even notice that < 1253478770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you're claiming something to do with age on the part of me, you must also claim it on the person who originally said the damn thing. < 1253478784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, yes of course I got it as soon as I bothered to look at it again. < 1253478791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um no? It is quite different if the speaker him/herself doesn't notice it < 1253478798 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree with AnMaster < 1253478819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: amusing then that if you miss a double entrende and I point it out you say I have a dirty mind, a bit of a double-standard there < 1253478826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:03 * coppro will be back in 2 or 3 years < 1253478826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:27 coppro: umm... bye? < 1253478826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:34 that's a rather anticlimatic exit < 1253478826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:50 I was making a joke. Lost on you, apparently. < 1253478827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1253478835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever, continue your "lol he's so young and naive and did I mention candyfloss" antics < 1253478862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never claimed that *I* didn't have a dirty mind :P < 1253478864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it must be interesting having nothing better to do and responding to this knowledge with a discussion about how one insignificant person you only know over IRC is young/stupid/whatever < 1253478867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1253478868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253478907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hm how old are you btw? 25 or so is my guess < 1253479120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, it's rainly heavily < 1253479126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at forcast for tomorrow < 1253479148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm better than what I hoped for, still bad < 1253481137 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't raining here atm < 1253481155 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I believe I read it'll rain here tomorrow and tuesday < 1253481213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, different cities will have different weather very often :P < 1253481222 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1253481260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, btw, funny label on box (unable to translate to English due to not knowing what the hell it is called in English): < 1253481289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desinficerande våtservetter \n Med desinfektionsmedel < 1253481299 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh really? < 1253481305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, exactly < 1253481979 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disinfecting wet serviette \n with disinfectant < 1253481983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something? < 1253481998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, something like that < 1253482003 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253482005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that is what they are called in English < 1253482015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("wet serviette" that is) < 1253482018 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't, that's just the literal translation :-P < 1253482024 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Isn't it?) < 1253482062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I can't be bothered to look it up. < 1253482086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus everyone active atm seems to be able to understand Swedish more or less < 1253482093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including you < 1253482138 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253482331 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253482954 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-99-208.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253483429 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@host86-172-5-13.range86-172.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253483844 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253483900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1253484197 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253485577 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253486751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latest news from proggit: someone wrote a command-line application for ordering pizza < 1253486980 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh... n: 20000000 avg: 8103009.4666202 max spike: 8.8959992639417e+14 ... That seems just plain too ill-behaved to converge (the expectation of distribution is zero)... :-) < 1253487033 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20M samples and the estimate of expectation isn't even near correct... < 1253487034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: context? < 1253487084 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to estimate moments of badly-behaved distributions... < 1253487113 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(starting from trying to estimate what's the expectation value is). < 1253487218 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that "max spike" is biggest absolute value seen. As can be seen, peak to average ratio is huge (~10^8). < 1253487274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's badly behaved, all right < 1253487282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it Turing-complete? < 1253487295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's probably some way to do computation with a distribution) < 1253487297 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distribution: p(x) = k / (abs(x)+1)^1.5 (k is chosen to scale it properly for distribution). < 1253487303 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253487359 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd moments are zero. Even moments (except the zeroth) are infinite. < 1253487461 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric < 1253487621 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Some researchers wired a dead salmon into fMRI machine... :-) < 1253487710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1253487724 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show the ease of false positives < 1253487729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cerise: hi, I don't recognise you; what brings you here? < 1253487888 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cerise: You are developing some über-batshit-crazy to the nth power programming language and need some advice? :-> < 1253487907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is currently about 6 < 1253488056 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.41... :-> < 1253488086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly I've been slacking < 1253488216 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! :x < 1253488305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry #esoteric, I've been slacking for weeks on the esolang side of things < 1253488587 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253488688 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1253488690 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, Cerise < 1253488785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I AM NOT USING LD_PRELOAD AS A LONG TERM - FUCKING - SOLUTION <-- that's what they all say < 1253488797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi Cerise < 1253488842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They say that, yes, but then everyone just ends up keeping the LD_PRELOAD in place when having sex anyway. < 1253488855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1253488865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean >_< < 1253488879 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cerise: And esoteric language doesn't have to be über-batshit-insane to 6.41th power... Just being insane (batshit-insane is even better) is enough. :-> < 1253488912 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1253488921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elegance also counts, says i < 1253488926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, definitely < 1253488935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't be truly elegant without being slightly insane, though < 1253488941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it fits this channel pretty well < 1253489012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand if your language heaps feature upon feature rather than being elegant, _then_ it needs to be über-batshit-insane or else it ends up with negative points < 1253489030 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, Rube-Goldberg-style Turing Completeness also would be funky. < 1253489093 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, lots of features that don't fit well together, and manage as combination just barely reach TC. < 1253489126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but with a lot of features it is hard to ensure all of them are really needed for TC < 1253489142 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX- < 1253489169 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1253489454 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's why its so difficult to design them. < 1253489863 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253490274 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253490793 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253491772 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"." < 1253491774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I think about Underload instruction minimisation < 1253491779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in much the same way as BF instruction minimisation < 1253491835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::*^!~aS < 1253491857 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253491883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: cannot be dropped, nor can * or ^ < 1253491935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as far as being expressed by the others is concerned, at least < 1253491950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a and S < 1253491981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! seems unlikely. maybe you could manage to sweep things down instead... < 1253492007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think any of them are redundant < 1253492153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253492299 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253492305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: () is redundant < 1253492331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& (for want of a better name) is simpler < 1253492352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean one taking only one character? < 1253492354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it does is: pushes the last command executed to the stack, quoted < 1253492357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, simpler < 1253492360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a regular command < 1253492367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have one piece of global state that you assign with one line < 1253492382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 proved that this can do everything () can < 1253492409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as long as you don't want to print non-command characters < 1253492416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1253492426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's remove output, it makes things easier to minimize; this is tarpitting after all < 1253492444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1253492449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ swap < 1253492451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: duplicate < 1253492452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! discard < 1253492457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* concatenate < 1253492465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& push last command executed, quoted < 1253492467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a enclose < 1253492469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ run < 1253492484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you might get rid of ! with some global rewriting in cps style, or something < 1253492486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& is the most complex, but simpler than () in both implementation and syntax < 1253492489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about equal in semantics < 1253492496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly simpler as you can leave non-command characters undefined < 1253492511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let's make & , instead < 1253492516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's so common, it might as well drop out < 1253492522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ', which is a quote < 1253492522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, ' < 1253492553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to push each command: < 1253492565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :()()~'{dip !} < 1253492567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does '' do? :D < 1253492568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dip being the hard part < 1253492575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's dip in underload again? < 1253492592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: basically, in your interpreter loop, after the switch for the command, do lastcmd=thischar; < 1253492596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the answer is ' < 1253492600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~a*^ i think < 1253492603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do a fancy loop, you get the last thing executed there < 1253492619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a variable declaration, one unconditional assignment and one trivial extra command < 1253492663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, first one done < 1253492670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to push ~, ()()~'()!':*~a*^ < 1253492672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1253492676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have () < 1253492681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1253492687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there was one extra thing < 1253492691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack starts out with () on it < 1253492696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253492700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better alternative is to say that the stack has an infinite number of ()s on the bottom < 1253492713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also handles things like the standalone program : < 1253492731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then, to push ~, assuming initial stack: < 1253492749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~' < 1253492754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was easy :D < 1253492770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course you have to carry the () around with you, but iirc ais provided direct translations of every non-output instruction < 1253492776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, simple text replacement < 1253492789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253492823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happily, everything is now foo' on an empty stack which Just Works, even '' < 1253492835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you need something before to be defined, which is reasonable < 1253492842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case !'' < 1253492858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I have a hunch that ! and * can be combined < 1253492870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253492903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we could rewrite dip without ~, we'd need no swap < 1253492909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that takes the top 3 on stack < 1253492918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top 3 sounds inelegant < 1253492920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and combines two and drops one < 1253492923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1253492936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking more like, < 1253492952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo)% = ((foo)) < 1253492958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1253492964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you need a put-back instruction < 1253492964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1253492973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo)(bar)% = ((foo))(bar)^ < 1253492976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1253492979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo)(bar)% = ((foo))bar < 1253492986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, say < 1253492990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how to drop < 1253492992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1253493000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to drop the extraneous ((foo)) after < 1253493001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1253493017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is a required? < 1253493028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253493051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: [)]*[(]~* < 1253493051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1253493053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am evil. < 1253493058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also adds unbalanced output!) < 1253493084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1253493129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, apart from ', which i think is a simplification, and dropping S, this is hard < 1253493204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe ^ could be simplified if we... holy fuck < 1253493210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify the data stack and the code. < 1253493216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's mind, verily, blows < 1253493231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way we could remove ^. < 1253493241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if it's actually possible to < 1253493244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to some degree ^ does nothing but move the top element of data to code < 1253493249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1253493252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so abolish data < 1253493254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we operate on code < 1253493281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, then ^ becomes the inverse of a < 1253493305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo), stack/code is (separated by <>): (foo) < 1253493306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it already is, one way < 1253493316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^, stack/code is (separated by <>): foo<>^ < 1253493319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, well < 1253493328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess ^ shouldn't be there < 1253493330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^, stack/code is (separated by <>): foo < 1253493335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo, error! < 1253493336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253493358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prog: ((foo)^)^ < 1253493376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((foo)^), stk/cd (sep <>): ((foo)^)<>^ < 1253493401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^, stk/cd (sep <>): (foo)<>^ < 1253493406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo), stk/cd (sep <>): (foo)<>^ < 1253493412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^, stk/cd (sep <>): foo < 1253493413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo, error < 1253493418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think this could actually work < 1253493487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels ugly though < 1253493497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why? before we had two stacks, code and data < 1253493506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is simply removing a concept and that's it < 1253493511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's wonderfully metacircular < 1253493531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you go write it up ;) < 1253493566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i'm just minimizin' here < 1253493578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hatin' < 1253493606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not hatin', just lazyin' < 1253493637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is < 1253493638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this tc? < 1253493644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try and run the traditional loop < 1253493649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:^):^ < 1253493667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:^), stk/cd (sep <>): (:^)<>:<>^ < 1253493678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1253493682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want to be executing the top item at all times < 1253493687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prog (:^):^ < 1253493707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial stk/cd ^<>:<>(:^) < 1253493718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253493723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is avoiding an infinite loop there < 1253493724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1253493738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (foo)'s semantics, I believe, are "move this (foo) down one in the stack" < 1253493754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo)bar is bar<>(foo), and when executed it becomes (foo)<>bar < 1253493758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bar operates on the (foo) below it < 1253493765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah? < 1253493797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're aware that (:^):^ _is_ an infinite loop? ;) < 1253493841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i know < 1253493850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realised how (foo) should work < 1253493851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1253493856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prog (:^):^ < 1253493864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial stk/cd ^<>:<>(:^) < 1253493882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:^), new stk/cd: ^<>(:^)<>: < 1253493898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::, new stk/cd: ^<>(:^)<>(:^) < 1253493899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-oh < 1253493909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think every command has to move stuff out of the way, which is irritating < 1253493924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the semantics are save second-top from us at beginning, pop it off; push it to top after we've done our stuff < 1253494041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically the stack is equivalent to its elements being a'd and prepended to the code < 1253494099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can just skip everything of (...) form to find the real next command < 1253494194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this messes with getting rid of () < 1253494356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if * shouldn't be what ~* is now < 1253494370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, skipping like that sucks; code should be executed from the top, as-is imo < 1253494388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253494405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, ~* seems damn common < 1253494413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however even with ~* as primitive i'm not sure you can do ~ < 1253494413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly * has more elegance < 1253494421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, ~ < 1253494468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you still have no way to apply a to the bottom one before combining, if you don't have ~ < 1253494479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant < 1253494482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set * = ~* < 1253494483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1253494486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* is more elegant < 1253494493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253494523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :face it, underload is _hard_ to improve < 1253494532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially on elegance < 1253494536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is incredibly elegant. < 1253494540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a masterwork < 1253494550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253494556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if we could reduce it to () + one command < 1253494567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a mammoth inelegant command looking at 9485345 values on the stack < 1253494573 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253494600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253494607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ and ! can easily be combined < 1253494612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discard first element, swap rest < 1253494617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ! is ()combine < 1253494622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap rest two that is < 1253494636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discard first element, concatenate second two, swap last two < 1253494640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um you mean ~ is ()combine < 1253494645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, right < 1253494659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! is ()~()~combine < 1253494665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1253494669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253494672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have to pop afterwards :D < 1253494678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combine()combine < 1253494682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1253494696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can we squeeze enclose second element in there? < 1253494738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is when you want the combination to be two unenclosed things appended < 1253494759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1253494772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discard 1, enclose 2, cat 3&4, swap 5&6 < 1253494783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1253494810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is how do you extract the commands from that... < 1253494817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1253494823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway with that it'd just be that+()+^+S < 1253494828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253494835 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253494839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discard 1, enclose 2, output 3, cat 4&5, swap 6&7 < 1253494842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was obvious < 1253494847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(output also discards obvs) < 1253494854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that+()+^ < 1253494858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure you can combine ^ into it < 1253494886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run 0 at some point < 1253494895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm, 1 = TOS < 1253494898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my system < 1253494900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that confusing? < 1253494924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just shifted it so i didn't have to repeat the next < 1253494936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253494945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the rest < 1253494959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, cat 4&5 after output refer to elements after the output ofc < 1253494966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., when we drop we stitll use the same numbering < 1253494968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious but < 1253494969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still < 1253494982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run 0, discard 1, enclose 2, output 3, cat 4&5, swap 6&7 < 1253494995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first person to extract all the commands from that wins a cookie < 1253495013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is called either # or @, the most ... full ASCII characters. < 1253495174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... you're forgetting anything to do with : < 1253495189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, true < 1253495195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253495213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not worth thinking about until i know those commands can be extracted... < 1253495246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect there needs to be some tinkering about with the order of things to ensure you can extract < 1253496214 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253496783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253496837 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253498786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253499312 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253500748 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253502467 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How old is ehird now? < 1253502487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 and a bit < 1253502537 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1253502544 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenabouts was he born? < 1253502565 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I just subtract two from my age whenever I want to get his? < 1253502579 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps I can say he's my little brother's age. < 1253502685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his birthday was a month or two ago iirc < 1253502793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would hazard a guess that you can indeed subtract a rather accurate constant, unless space travel picks up considerably < 1253504853 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a bit younger than my little brother. < 1253504870 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear little brother: Please overachieve. Love, Warrigal. < 1253507632 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253507644 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253509954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253510156 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253510738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253510856 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253512647 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253512934 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253512939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253513168 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253513836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253513975 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253514531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1253515554 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253517543 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253517560 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1253519676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes the interweb speeds here at work make me a bit envious; I just fetched a 695 MiB Ubuntu image at an average speed of 28.1 MiB/s; that's about 236 Mbps. At home it's something like a fifteenth of that, and even that to one direction only. < 1253519805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fifteenth of that is still relatively fast < 1253519833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but a puny trickle compared to the datavalanche here. < 1253519999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253520000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253522492 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d901be@gateway/web/freenode/x-udumwhwbttanbwxu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253524999 0 :Warrigal_!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1253524999 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253525169 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253525226 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253526713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253527422 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253528776 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253535991 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253536101 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253540556 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.181.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253544652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "datavalanche" ← very nice word < 1253544667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how long did it take? < 1253544695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also, that would be gbit ethernet at work plus a very good uplink < 1253544724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the wget visible any more, but based on those numbers something like 25 seconds. < 1253544743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets assume you got theoretical max for calculating that... It means 28.1 MB/s is 224.4 Mbit/s ? < 1253544758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means quite an awesome fiber connection I bet < 1253544763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is that you work! < 1253544768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to work there too certainly < 1253544770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28.1 MiB/s, so 236 Mbit/s. < 1253544800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28.1*8 == 224.8 says my calculator < 1253544809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also I always use base 1024 for MB and Mbit < 1253544818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I maintain that what I said above was correct < 1253544835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telecomms people pretty much only use the non-binary mega in Mbps figures. < 1253544860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's still the same university. < 1253544888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway you probably got a bit less than theoretical max. (other users, network overhead, latency + tcp having to wait for confirmation and so on...) So maybe 250 Mbit/s? < 1253544891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1253544898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their uplink that is < 1253544907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes < 1253544930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what mirror was it btw? < 1253544962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternative explanation: University happens to host a mirror and you got a quite mediocre speed in those conditions < 1253544962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was nic.funet.fi (well, fi.archive.ubuntu.com, but that's the same thing), so it's sort-of part of the same network, if you count the whole Funet -- http://www.csc.fi/english/institutions/funet -- as a one network. < 1253544977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not local to our university, but not too far away. < 1253545009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m7a43072e -- not too many hops. < 1253545017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't that give higher latency to the rest of the internet, I mean you have to pass through some central router from this network I guess < 1253545040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah that explains a bit of it < 1253545090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, yes. Though it should be pretty fast to other nordunet university networks, there's a 10-gigabit uplink that way. < 1253545100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nordunet? < 1253545103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that same as funet? < 1253545132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNET is a member of NORDUnet. < 1253545142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NORDUnet covers? < 1253545166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNET, SUNET, the Norway/Denmark equivalents, maybe something else < 1253545169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nordic countries"; I'm looking for the explicit list. < 1253545181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NORDUnet < 1253545185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1253545187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceland as well, evidently. < 1253545212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah SUNET. But I don't remember my tracepath to uni (for some reason I can't even tracepath/traceroute a single hop away from UNI) went like tele2 -> telia for one or two jumps -> sunet < 1253545220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Alcatel-Lucent and IPNETT has completed the 40 Gbit/s upgrade of the first link of NORDUnet's optical and IP transport network, which provides the Nordic infrastructure for research and education. Preparing the move to 100 Gbit/s, this network upgrade will further support new application enablement for universities and scientists in the Nordics and strengthen international collaborative environment." That sounds pretty fast. < 1253545236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though today it seems to go straight from tele2 to sunet < 1253545243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also buzzwordy. "Enablement", especially. < 1253545250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel very enablementy today. < 1253545266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/FUNET_backbone.svg < 1253545285 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253545386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, those colours doesn't quite match the text... < 1253545402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-09-21 17:03:12 (27.2 MB/s) - `tmp.exe' saved [108279664/108279664] < 1253545415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How not? < 1253545433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff going to denmark is violet kind of thing, and it says 20 gbit/s, but in the legend that colour is listed as 1 gbit/s or 622 mbit/s < 1253545451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That tmp.exe was a hundred-megabyte DirectX thing from Microsoft's download system; that should be further away, but still 27.2 MiB/s. < 1253545463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so good uplink too < 1253545465 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lighter purple, and as you say it says it's 20 Gbit/s so it's not messed up anyway < 1253545484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, lighter? I blame bad laptop^Wnotebook screen then < 1253545492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even at other angles there is no difference < 1253545493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Went through Sweden, it seems. < 1253545505 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most things do. < 1253545511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ? < 1253545518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that was a reply to fizzie < 1253545528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes, it is so our FRA can log you :P < 1253545538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously!) < 1253545614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was some talk years ago about Sonera relocating mail servers of Finnish customers away from Sweden because of that. < 1253545614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.idg.se/2.1085/1.153711 < 1253545614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, a year and a bit ago. < 1253545619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not surprised < 1253545692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to FUNET_backbone.svg, the Internet is in Denmark. < 1253545706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laughs as a file about MSDNAA opens in open office < 1253545721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and every other file at uni so far has been *.pdf not *.doc < 1253545823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find the terms and conditions for it, but can't < 1253545826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone < 1253545853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our "machine learning: basic principles" course assistant complained (at lunch) that people have been submitting just about everything, even though the instructions clearly say "single PDF file containing solutions to all questions"; there have been zipped up folders of separate files, Word documents, postscript files, postscript files renamed to .pdf, and even one PDF file named ".pdf" which was quite a clever trick, what with not showing up in ls listings. < 1253545996 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253546019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a fancy Funet status graph at http://www.csc.fi/funet/status/tools/wm < 1253546144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on those line widths (although they are a bit unclear) it looks as if nowadays there are 10G uplinks from both Espoo and Helsinki to NORDUnet, and the link between those two is 10G too. < 1253546371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's Espoo on that < 1253546413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"postscript files renamed to .pdf" <-- wonderful < 1253546426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same goes for .pdf < 1253546443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The csc one, I think. < 1253546462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a similar graph of the NORDUnet backbone at http://stats.nordu.net/stat-q/load-map/ndn-map,,traffic,peak if you like looking at the rainbow-like colours. < 1253546464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does the text in the pic mean < 1253546471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is English < 1253546494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm and the colours are for percentages of what? < 1253546534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Percentages of maximum capacity for peak use during a day, or something like that. < 1253546591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* = rented traffic capacity" and "other connections owned [by FUNET]: DWDM/CWDM/black fiber" are those labels in the lower-left corner. < 1253546659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, apparently "dark fiber" is the proper English term. < 1253546671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm can't see anywhere that it states you aren't allowed to use linux + wine + MSDNAA apps or such < 1253546673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"black" would've been the literal translation, though. < 1253546675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or virtualbox < 1253546679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so seems safe enough < 1253546742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you use it for study-related purposes; I think there was some sort of general condition for that. < 1253546761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it says non-commercial < 1253546785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows client operating systems obtained as part of the Developer AA program may not be used only as a terminal for accessing a UNIX telnet server" < 1253546789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well no issue. < 1253546797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to use ssh anyway < 1253546798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I need it < 1253546836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm: < 1253546846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The underlying Microsoft Windows desktop operating system may only be installed on new or replacement PCs acquired without an operating system for exclusive use by students or faculty enrolled in or employed by the member Department or organization; it is not transferable and must be removed if the PC is transferred." < 1253546872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmn. Well, I can't quite remember what terms there might've been. I just seem to recall something vague about the "only related to studies" thing. < 1253547002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it says to activate I have to send a mail from my student mail to a specific internal address. Says nothing about subject or such. < 1253547026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to ask about terms and conditions in the mail though. If it is auto-processed, it isn't my fault. < 1253547028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't called "developer AA" back then anyway, they might've rewritten parts of the terms. < 1253547068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember this one: "You may not use the software: -- to develop and maintain your own administrative or IT systems." < 1253547079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so awfully vague. < 1253547090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there are different variants, one that basically seems to be for arts students too < 1253547159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that virtualization thing explicitly, though: "You may also install such products in virtual machine environments so long as these virtual machines are (a) used according to these terms, and (b) run on machines owned or leased by you and/or students." < 1253547179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well owned would be correct. < 1253547275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the vagueness in "You may not use the software -- to develop and maintain your own administrative or IT systems" comes from the fact that I instinctively read that 'you' as, you know, myself, when in fact the "you" here is the university department. < 1253547491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gone for a while now.) < 1253547738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for now I sent a mail to the IT support asking about what specific edition of the MSDNAA program is used here < 1253547841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when apt-get update prints "Ign" or "Hit", what do those mean < 1253547863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first is probably "Ignore" < 1253547873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but what do they mean in this context < 1253547911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the context < 1253547911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find anything in man page < 1253547916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, apt-get update... < 1253547921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used apt-get < 1253547927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which updates the list of packages in the repos < 1253547934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pacman -Sy < 1253547968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when does it print that stuff then? < 1253547989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ign http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty-security/universe Packages < 1253547989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ign http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty-security/multiverse Packages < 1253547989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty/main Packages < 1253547989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty/restricted Packages < 1253547990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1253548009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those extra whitespaces at end, odd copy didn't strip that < 1253548085 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it print anything other than those? < 1253548091 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than Ign/Hit, I mean < 1253548122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at the end it prints: < 1253548128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading package lists... Done < 1253548134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that no < 1253548140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, does it ever print anything other than Ign or Hit when you do an update < 1253548162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there is some change it prints also something like: Fetched 28.9kB in 3s (8912B/s) < 1253548168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just before the "Reading package lists..." < 1253548178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it prints a total of 91 Ign/Hit lines < 1253548181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1253548185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says wc -l < 1253548187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most are "Hit" < 1253548204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes in case of new stuff it also prints: < 1253548206 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess Hit is just that it checked that package list < 1253548207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get:4 http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty-security Release [14.2kB] < 1253548211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1253548211 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Get < 1253548213 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah < 1253548216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right after the Hit line < 1253548223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so the hit line is still there < 1253548224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit = checked package list, no changes < 1253548228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha < 1253548230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hit = checked package list < 1253548232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Ign < 1253548237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get = got something < 1253548240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ign = didn't check package list < 1253548257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well those extra repos it ignores are listed as "I want these" < 1253548262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so doesn't make sense < 1253548305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you run apt-get update again, do you get all Ign? < 1253548312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no < 1253548324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, full output from http://pastebin.ca/1574011 from updating in a 32-bit chroot I use for cross compiling < 1253548334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case Hit could've meant that something changed upstream but not necessarily anything interesting to you < 1253548352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, see there too, since nothing relevant changed, or apt-get upgrade would have said so < 1253548364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it would have upgraded the packages < 1253548372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why would it say hit just half a minute later again < 1253548374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ALL those < 1253548379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a bit unlikely < 1253548386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Googling suggests that Ign may mean a 404 < 1253548404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok that is strange, I tried google too < 1253548411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then Hit = 200 < 1253548421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or 3xx I guess) < 1253548490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ign http://ddebs.ubuntu.com jaunty-updates/universe Packages < 1253548491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1253548505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/dists/jaunty-updates/universe/binary-i386/ exists and contains Packages < 1253548524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, run with extra max verbosity or something < 1253548555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -V Show verbose version numbers < 1253548557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thm < 1253548558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm* < 1253548573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no change, guess it is just for package upgrades/installs < 1253548628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find any "more verbose option" apart from that < 1253548632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is -q and -qq < 1253548699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-q makes it loggable, so it doesn't use progress bars and such, and -qq makes it output errors only < 1253548822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is -o for "set any configuration option" guess I will try to find a list of thosr < 1253548824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those* < 1253550211 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253550601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people actually write VLIW asm < 1253550608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, what does it look like < 1253550612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume they must, for stuff in kernel and such < 1253552182 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-170-173.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253552212 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253552538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1253552544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253552550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to sort out university for this year < 1253552559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently my course lasts a maximum of 4 years and a minimum of 6 years < 1253552571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and until I pointed it out, nobody saw a problem with this < 1253552581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err... < 1253552599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does that mean "everyone thought that was normal" or "no one noticed the typo"? < 1253552617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what course is it that lasts that long < 1253552621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's that nobody had looked at both stats simultaneously < 1253552639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a 75% part-time PhD lasts 4 years (that's what I'm doing), if it had been 50% part-time it would last 6 years < 1253552647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where the spurious 6-year figure seems to have come from < 1253552666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1253552677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the topic of the PhD? < 1253552694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware synthesis from high-level languages < 1253552699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah still that? < 1253552702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, higher level than VHDL, anyway < 1253552940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that add/remove thing under the program menu in ubuntu sucks a bit: < 1253552961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :searching for RTS in the games section turns upp stuff like "Alien Blaster is a classic 2D shoot 'em up..." < 1253552963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what not < 1253552972 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253552973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even imagine how that matched RTS < 1253552992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh point and click adventures turn up too for that term < 1253553004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and turned based stratergy, at least that is closer < 1253553032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actual RTSes though, not even the ones I know exist in the repos < 1253553044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complete and utter fail < 1253553121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better luck looking in /usr/portage/games-stratergy on gentoo, at least you only get turn based and real time ones, instead of getting completely unrelated arcade, board game,s side scrollers and what not < 1253553132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentoo has a lot fewer games though < 1253553234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: add/remove is a rather dumbed-down interface < 1253553239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use apt-cache search instead < 1253553243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the command-line stuff tends to work better < 1253553259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, harder to read. < 1253553263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially apt-cache < 1253553268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pipe it through less < 1253553269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or grep < 1253553280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not like that... I mean, at least gentoo has eix which has nice colour coded output < 1253553284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nicely formatted < 1253553342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while apt-cache search RTS lists lots of unrelated stuff too < 1253553360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache search --help isn't useful either < 1253553386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and this matches descriptions or tags I hope? < 1253553394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not just looking for packages *named* RTS < 1253553407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, descriptions < 1253553427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe games don't call themselves "RTS", but "real time strategy"? < 1253553437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stuff like "foobar is a 3D RTS which takes place in a post nuclear dystopian setting" < 1253553445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tried that too < 1253553481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives a few hits, but those I know about and I'm pretty sure it is missing some < 1253553540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, the website of the one new I found just give php errors, it looks interesting in google cache though < 1253553548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fatal error: Out of memory (allocated 2883584) (tried to allocate 311296 bytes) in /home/glob2/public_html/wiki/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php on line 811 < 1253553570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what... 304 kb? < 1253553601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2816 kb before < 1253553616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, mediawiki is bloated < 1253553631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it needs several MB to display a page < 1253553645 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact, mediawiki parser sucks < 1253553674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch it wants even more boost fail libs < 1253553688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libboost-thread1.34.1 this time < 1253553722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ubuntu package is as usual way outdated < 1253553744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, what was there to parse for going to a damn image page -_- < 1253553766 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :image page? :S < 1253553779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't be a lot < 1253553785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and main page gave same < 1253553788 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253553829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: what version of MediaWiki? < 1253553834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they replaced the parser a couple of versions ago < 1253553840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with one that isn't nearly as hackish < 1253553861 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure, maybe older than 1.10? < 1253553874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that'll be the old parser then < 1253553906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly what I imagined, but doesn't seem bad as such < 1253553925 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my server run several copies of mediawiki and they are becoming huge bottle neck... :S < 1253553957 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to the point that ordinary bot can present practical DDoS attack to the wiki) < 1253554014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: even one copy of MediaWiki was enough to crash ehird's slice a while ago < 1253554050 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1253554334 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, esotope-bfc would become a topic of my bachelor's thesis. so the project is likely to be revived... soon. < 1253554352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, it was dead? And what on earth will your thesis be about? < 1253554376 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe about optimizing brainfuck compiler. < 1253554468 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't know it was dead, but certainly i didn't work on it for months so... you know. < 1253554530 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course the thesis would be in korean only. sadly i'm not good at academic writing in English) < 1253554649 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's going on in-between? :p < 1253554809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably better than my academic writing in Japanese. < 1253554822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my Japanese is about on par with that of a 2nd grader. Hooray?) < 1253554853 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i'm also not good at academic writing in Korean so that's not a problem. :p < 1253554883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1253555913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you want to find strategy-related games in the debian repos, just search for the game::strategy tag. (I'm not sure how to actually *do* that with apt, but the debtags smart-search can do it, at least.) < 1253556185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1253556196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, in-between is dead < 1253556329 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1253557246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the correct aptitude /-search for that is "?tag(game::strategy)", or alternatively "~Ggame::strategy". I don't think Synaptic (the graphical apt GUI Ubuntu comes with, I think?) knows anything about searching for tags, though. < 1253557279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I guess there's some even more dumbed-down add/remove-apps thing?) < 1253557399 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@90.52.95.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253557474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253558480 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253558499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:09:04 Whenabouts was he born? < 1253558503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1995-08-22 < 1253558510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 am or so < 1253558524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54:36 Sometimes the interweb speeds here at work make me a bit envious; I just fetched a 695 MiB Ubuntu image at an average speed of 28.1 MiB/s; that's about 236 Mbps. At home it's something like a fifteenth of that, and even that to one direction only. < 1253558527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1253558530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you work :| < 1253558559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's there a bit later, but it's just that boring university. < 1253558692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: better boring than shitty < 1253558701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:56:02 It was nic.funet.fi (well, fi.archive.ubuntu.com, but that's the same thing), so it's sort-of part of the same network, if you count the whole Funet -- http://www.csc.fi/english/institutions/funet -- as a one network. < 1253558706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you're on the same internet? < 1253558709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't count then! < 1253558714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1253558762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be exactly sure where in Funet that Ubuntu mirror is. < 1253558772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm joking, i.e. funet is just a network like the internet < 1253558782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hyperbolically, if funet is discounted the internet is! < 1253558842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can only count downloads from the moon or Mars. < 1253558861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try alpha centuri < 1253558863 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253558864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via radio. < 1253558877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1253558887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I double click a word to select it in ubuntu < 1253558890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then drag from there < 1253558894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes a selection from my cursor position < 1253558897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the middle of the word < 1253558898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying < 1253558908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also *centauri < 1253559252 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-8-82.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253559618 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-142.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253559826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:30:26 I'm going to ask about terms and conditions in the mail though. If it is auto-processed, it isn't my fault. < 1253559828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, uhh, false. < 1253559993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hit = Going there, nothing < 1253560000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ign = I don't want to look at this < 1253560010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get = Lol I be outdated, like de dinosorz < 1253560038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:52:04 Deewiant, full output from http://pastebin.ca/1574011 from updating in a 32-bit chroot I use for cross compiling < 1253560044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, I'd try and help but you set that to expire. < 1253560069 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just had two Ign and two Hit lines < 1253560142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or no, that was the full output < 1253560156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I even looked at that < 1253560168 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253560169 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1253560216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:30:01 do people actually write VLIW asm < 1253560217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:30:08 if so, what does it look like < 1253560217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:30:12 I assume they must, for stuff in kernel and such < 1253560220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See Itanium documentation. < 1253560230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks boring. < 1253560260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:03:37 ais523, and what course is it that lasts that long < 1253560267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Sweden not have PhDs or something < 1253560305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:10:44 complete and utter fail < 1253560317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waah, the search engine doesn't magically expand my algorithm and search with a strong AI < 1253560327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to act like a 7 year old and say fail < 1253560339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:13:54 AnMaster: add/remove is a rather dumbed-down interface < 1253560339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WFM < 1253560438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It looks boring. <-- meh < 1253560464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sverre.web.cern.ch/sverre/IA64_1.pdf < 1253560467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tutorial with examples < 1253560482 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253560558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:14:40 ais523, not like that... I mean, at least gentoo has eix which has nice colour coded output < 1253560559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:14:44 and nicely formatted < 1253560564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, you could stop complaining and use Gentoo. < 1253560580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:17:17 but stuff like "foobar is a 3D RTS which takes place in a post nuclear dystopian setting" < 1253560590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian usually opt for legible descriptions as opposed to requiring niche knowledge. < 1253560593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*opts < 1253560596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no, not "RTS". < 1253560621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:21:14 ouch it wants even more boost fail libs < 1253560625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependencies! Astonishing! < 1253560662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:32:56 maybe about optimizing brainfuck compiler. < 1253560670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please, please, please use the proper name of the language < 1253560679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything i've seen that tries to be serious about it says BF :( < 1253560707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On Advanced Optimization Techniques for the Abstract Imperative Language 'Brainfuck'" < 1253560717 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253560722 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(, counter-increment: sum attr(id); no workie < 1253560723 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map map map map fold fold fold fold < 1253560728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1253560734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't think Synaptic (the graphical apt GUI Ubuntu comes with, I think?)" < 1253560739 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select select select select aggregate aggregate aggregate aggregate < 1253560745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The package manager, yes. Not the more friendly "Add/Remove..." < 1253560754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: increment increment decrement decrement < 1253560756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUSHROOM MUSHROOM < 1253560765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ ++ -- -- < 1253560773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom. < 1253560827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the default radeon/ati driver kinda sucks when paired with Adobe Flash. < 1253560843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "music is desynchronized by like a 1/4 second" sucks. < 1253560849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not just music. < 1253560853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, every piece of audio. < 1253560861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't look for music and then delay just that. < 1253560922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The delay is a function of the musicalnessity of the sound; it wouldn't delay, say, rap music, much if at all. < 1253561078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how Spotify under Wine keeps saying "fixme:ntdll:NtQueryInformationProcess (process=0xffffffff) Unimplemented information class: ProcessDebugFlags" once per second. I wonder if it's doing some sort of anti-anti-DRM "explode if someone's trying to use a debugger to extract song data" check, or if that's just unrelated Wine coincidence. < 1253561093 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253561098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Torrents don't do that :-P < 1253561133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not as user-friendly to browse around with torrents. Besides, I wouldn't get the wonderful Spotify ads then. < 1253561166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ought to make a content-type tailored torrent searcher. < 1253561196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although torrents will always be quite slow, even on a fast connection. < 1253561480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this Sennheiser USB microphone/speaker headset -- well, it has the normal 3.5 mm headphone/mic plugs, and an USB -> 2x3.5mm adapter -- and when I plug it in, it is detected as a HID device. < 1253561486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input: Sennheiser Communications Sennheiser USB Headset as /class/input/input5 < 1253561486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic-usb 0003:1395:0002.0004: input,hidraw3: USB HID v1.00 Device [Sennheiser Communications Sennheiser USB Headset] on usb-0000:00:12.2-1.2/input3 < 1253561518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Move your mouse by talking into it. < 1253561532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Up. Up. Left. Right. No, a bit to the left. Click." < 1253561606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an Audio/Control Device interface, a couple of Audio/Streaming interfaces, and then a "No Subclass" HID device. < 1253561769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, things are nowadays so complicated, with every device having all kinds of crazy parts. According to ALSA I have four sound cards, for example; one's the motherboard-integrated, one's this USB thing, one's the TV capture card, and one's the Radeon graphics card HDMI port. < 1253562185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The Radeon card actually works as a sound card, I think. < 1253562197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows how it compares to onboard. < 1253562243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can get anything else than the digital s/pdif out of it, though. (And actually it's the onboard-integrated radeon, not a separate card. :p ) < 1253562316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the point of the exercise was to test whether with this USB adapter I could connect the better Sennheiser headphones to the computer without hearing the awful "you can hear the mouse moving" noise the chassis front panel headphone connector gives. (Yes.) < 1253562360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hearing the mouse moving sounds awesome. < 1253562413 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's the USB-caused interrupts or what; you can also hear things happening on the screen; well, either that, or just the related computation. < 1253562447 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253562624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No sign of noise with this adapter, and since it's Sennheiser(TM), I'm sure it can't be completely awful w.r.t. audio quality in general, though I'm not really qualified to judge that. < 1253562686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I thought that too, until I heard sound emanating from a wireless headphone of theirs. < 1253562696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again it was more the whole radio thing and less the actual headphones that did that. < 1253562735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I had radio-based no-name-brand wireless headphones (because the cat kept eating the wires off the wired ones whenever I left them around), and I've seldom heard a worse thing. < 1253562862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:02:39 apparently my course lasts a maximum of 4 years and a minimum of 6 years < 1253562865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:02:51 and until I pointed it out, nobody saw a problem with this < 1253562867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1253562885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the phd accepted, submit it, write it, study the advanced stuff < 1253562889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it gradually gets more basic < 1253562963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official length for PhD studies around here is 4 years, with the theoretical studies done during the first two years, and the dissertation and related research mostly during the other two. < 1253562997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should go and fish around for some signatures, my graduate-studies application form needs to be returned by Friday. < 1253564024 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-105-121.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253564860 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253567613 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253567617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1253567665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253567696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. I can't even say hi back again < 1253567698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you aren't here... < 1253567782 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253567799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be fine if this radeon driver was just slow, but I'm pretty sure it's making Compiz unstable < 1253567802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that shit < 1253567876 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253567879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird by the way < 1253567887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you left before I could say hi < 1253567894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she said? < 1253567962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes metacity compositing with gconf-editor because compiz is just so unstable with this driver < 1253567973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I need my damn window shadows < 1253568007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise metacity could composit < 1253568007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately compositing metacity's window shadows have a bit too much radius and blur < 1253568022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253568037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/apps/metacity/general/compositing_manager < 1253568043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need to restart it < 1253568056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it draws the panel's window shadow underneath the windows < 1253568076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can put windows at the top or bottom and they won't look awful when unfocused < 1253568095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the shadow interacts with the beige inactive titlebar rather unpleasantly) < 1253568101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the compiz folks are trying to fix that though < 1253568176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Ubuntu users: System -> Administration -> Software Sources -> Download from: -> Other... -> Select Best Server < 1253568185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know that one < 1253568189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now apt-get update finishes in 0.6 seconds for me < 1253568195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and recommend it over in #ubuntu whenever a new release comes out < 1253568195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everything is wonderfully fast < 1253568226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the official Swedish server < 1253568226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I got the same server trying it again about 5 minutes later, so this one I know is the best < 1253568234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oddly, it isn't in the UK < 1253568239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one do you use? < 1253568258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nl2.archive.ubuntu.com < 1253568268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why does it ping, though? that's not really an accurate test of total download speed, is it? < 1253568277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I do my scans just after release, which is when the Ubuntu servers are likely most overloaded < 1253568282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be willing to run something that takes 10 minutes instead of 2 to get a more accurate measure < 1253568290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although pinging isn't a good test of throughput, it /is/ a good test of congestion < 1253568311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is likely to be more important in general, as a congested server will take hours, whereas all non-congested servers will have similar times < 1253568315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, it's nice to have the Reload stuff in Add/Remove... and the like be instant < 1253568352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm quite pedantic about naming it with the ellipsis because Gnome has proper conventions for these things and I want them to stick) < 1253568369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should say GNOME, really, but it's not an acronym and that's an awfully shouty name < 1253568382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly humane :-P < 1253568402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you use Epiphany sometimes, right? < 1253568404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253568408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Epiphany open atm < 1253568428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :links from IRC open in Epiphany for me rather than Firefox < 1253568436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a few questions that you may know - one, why did they remove epiphany-webkit in Jaunty so you have to add two webkit-dev PPAs and a PGP key? < 1253568446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome has a compositing manager thing too; but literally the only thing it does is it can apply opacity values to active/inactive windows. < 1253568446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can configure that. < 1253568466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, xmag makes quite a nice colour picker < 1253568470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I use epiphany-mozilla atm < 1253568481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can select the general region then hover over individual pixels to find their rgb < 1253568494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as (foo,bar,baz) where each element is repeated once < 1253568495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my guess is they removed it because nobody was willing to maintain it < 1253568498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to 16-bitness or something < 1253568510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f8f8,eaea,9797) etc < 1253568519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wtf is epiphany-mozilla? < 1253568520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that repetition would imply a 24-bit colour depth < 1253568532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... I mean epiphany-gecko < 1253568534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, which is standard < 1253568537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a long day, OK < 1253568548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: epiphany-gecko is all Ubuntu has right now, but Epiphany are going Gecko-only in the future < 1253568573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they were going Webkit-only < 1253568577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, right < 1253568584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, do you know where I can get a non-bitmap Chinese/Japanese font? annoying seeing all those pixelated characters among smoothed ones < 1253568592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Epiphany does fit into Gnome really well < 1253568600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, which is why I'd rather use it instead of Firefox < 1253568607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's not ideal as a browser itself, it's good enough, and the rest of the system really knows what it's doing < 1253568637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my major annoyance with Epiphany atm is that you can't open a new tab by double-clicking the tab bar < 1253568640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favourite browser is Chrome, but it still draws that awful blue title/tab bar it uses on Windows XP and non-Aero Vista/7 in the super-alpha Linux version < 1253568649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it unusably puke-esque < 1253568650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should report that, it's not like double-clicking the bar does anything useful atm < 1253568667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had another complaint with the tab bar, but < 1253568671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :report it to the Gnome people < 1253568677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's yours? < 1253568678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll just use the stock Gnome tab bar, obviously < 1253568687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least follow the Gnome conventions for tab bars strictly < 1253568695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't middle-click to close a tab < 1253568699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to hit the close button < 1253568700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you could < 1253568706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same in Safari, but fucking annoying < 1253568708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you? < 1253568720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, you can't < 1253568725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using the PPA WebKit version, so probably not the same version as you (more recent) < 1253568728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries in Nautilus < 1253568731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an uglier icon to the repository versions. < 1253568741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the Nautilus tab bar is identical < 1253568744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, middle-clicking doesn't close tabs in Nautilus either < 1253568759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I do that literally all the time, so it's very annoying < 1253568762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not like Konqueror, where middle-clicking tries to interpret the selection contents as an URL and navigates there < 1253568768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1253568769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that < 1253568777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you middle click it goes to the URL in your clipboard < 1253568779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also causes you to lose the contents of the current tab as a result < 1253568790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "also"? that's what I said < 1253568790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konqueror is insanity-inducing < 1253568797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "selection contents" < 1253568802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that the name of the X11 clipboard? < 1253568809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my Kanji characters and friends come from the ttf-{kochi,sazanami}-* packages, which I think are vector fonts, but I can't really say anything about the quality, since I can't decode the characters. < 1253568813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, if you deselect it does indeed uncopy it < 1253568814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's technically called "primary selection" or something like that < 1253568838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, Ubuntu's font rendering is quite passable in 9.04; they're using a new subpixel hinting thing < 1253568848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, because I spent far too long fiddling with elisp trying to get copy-and-paste working between Windows and Emacs running on SunOS inside Exceed < 1253568863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Slight hinting + subpixel right now, and I very rarely see any coloured fringes < 1253568866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed it in the end, though; it was the easiest way to transmit information between the two systems < 1253568888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, another Epiphany query < 1253568894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know those Smart Bookmarks you drag to the toolbar? < 1253568896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bit of add-on confusion in that X11 has both the primary selection and a separate "clipboard" selection. < 1253568897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I never see coloured fringes on here with any settings but ones with the pixel order wrong < 1253568899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, I don't < 1253568900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the toolbar with the address bar in < 1253568917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: darn. see http://projects.gnome.org/epiphany/smartbookmarks.html < 1253568928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have bookmarks on the toolbar at all in Epiphany < 1253568932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead I have them on the address bar < 1253568938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if you have a bookmark like the "Search the web" one included, with %s in it < 1253568942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the address bar is on a toolbar < 1253568947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you can drag it to any toolbar < 1253568950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, I mean < 1253568952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll appear with a text field to the right < 1253568954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesomebar-style < 1253568957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, I know that < 1253568959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except programmed by hand rather than automatic < 1253568969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's useless, as you have to wait for a second for the completions to come up < 1253568971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then hit down and enter < 1253568975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think there were something called "cut buffers" too? < 1253568976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's worthless for googling < 1253568979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jwz.org/doc/x-cut-and-paste.html < 1253568989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, try dragging "Search the web" next to the address bar and you'll see < 1253569013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problems are twofold: one, you can't make it bigger, so the text box is always irritatingly small < 1253569020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, you can't assign the text box a keyboard shortcut < 1253569031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't do Ctrl+K hello Enter to google for something like I do now < 1253569057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, I can't find a way to search the web sanely with Epiphany < 1253569068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always just visit Google and use the text box there < 1253569073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not as good as the Firefox method, though < 1253569080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a problem I'd noticed, though < 1253569080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have *any idea* how much I google? < 1253569084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because I hardly use Google < 1253569090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :observe: < 1253569090 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253569104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. type in query, wait a small amount of time, hit down to "Search the web" smart bookmark, enter < 1253569123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. click dragged-to-toolbar "Search the web"'s input box, type query, enter (fastest out of these three) < 1253569125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a point of reference, I just google with Ctrl-L "g hello" enter. < 1253569141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. type in google.com, enter, wait for it to load, type query, enter < 1253569142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fun fact: today I was using someone else's computer (windows XP + IE), and I entered a URL wrong (it was one of the insane ones that need www. and don't work without) < 1253569152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: out of these, three is obviously the slowest by far < 1253569157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it decided to interpret my entry as a Bing search rather than going to the website < 1253569171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bing found the site as a result (nonsuprisingly, as I'd given it all the URL apart from the www) < 1253569172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you do a smart-bookmark-with-a-"g"-keyword like that in Epiphany too? < 1253569176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I clicked on the link, I got a security error < 1253569186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that an untrusted website (Bing) was trying to link to a trusted one < 1253569199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't think so < 1253569206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: even if you can, that's suboptimal < 1253569214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this didn't really fill me with confidence in IE's usability... < 1253569225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, smart bookmarks are really stupid; the only use for them can be replaced with something like Firefox's search bar < 1253569239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easily accessible, and you can easily add new engines with the OpenSearch thing that lets you add one from a compliant site < 1253569240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should just implement opensearch < 1253569246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no waiting involved, which (to me) is enough; because I really don't like the search bar. < 1253569255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in conclusion, the Epiphany people are either just trying to be different for "simplicity" and failing wildly, < 1253569259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are stupid :P < 1253569262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why not? < 1253569276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my conclusions about Bing: it's not incredibly bad, but it still has no reason for existing < 1253569284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it looks so useless, there's already one text box up there, and it's bigger too. < 1253569286 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-44-220.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253569287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: money < 1253569297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ctrl-K, Ctrl-L g space < 1253569300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Space < 1253569302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare. < 1253569304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to have an obvious way of making money either < 1253569311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do you have a really small screen or something? < 1253569311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ads. < 1253569318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it has adverts that I mentally filtered out < 1253569327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that version of IE certainly wasn't running adblock < 1253569334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it had adverts that I didn't notice... < 1253569340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bing.com/search?q=ads&go=&form=QBLH&filt=all&qs=n < 1253569347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking up the whole third column < 1253569354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Still no waiting, and (again, for me) the g-space prefix is just a small-constant O(1) thing when compared to writing the search query itself. < 1253569361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nowadays, I'm using adblock to block avatar folders on forums, so I don't have to look at everyone's awful avatars) < 1253569374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, but if you can remove the constant without downside, why not? < 1253569379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah good point, it does have adverts < 1253569383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to conciously look at them to see them, though < 1253569397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same with most people. < 1253569400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something wrong with me? < 1253569402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "without downside", it eats up space from the address bar; and the search-bar itself is so short you can hardly fit any longer queries there. < 1253569424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: for one, how tiny are your browser windows, and how long are the URLs of the sites you use?! < 1253569433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two, text boxes can accept more than their width, you know < 1253569439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my search box isn't *that* small < 1253569441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well, admittedly my main browser window is 1920 pixels wide nowadays. < 1253569446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253569456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it's probably really just that I never got used to it, before getting the habit of the C-l g-googling. < 1253569499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on the 1024x768 iBook the address bar (with the toolbar buttons to the left, and a reasonably-sized search bar to the right) *was* a bit short-ish. < 1253569541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the smallest usable text box is < 1253569547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 characters is probably enough to correct typos < 1253569592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usable as in barely or usable as in usable? < 1253569656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1253569663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"keyboard shortcut to smart bookmark epiphany" on google, first result: "Epiphany is hype, get over it" < 1253569671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a positive post about Epiphany... < 1253569678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://raphael.slinckx.net/blog/2006-03-15/epiphany-is-hype-get-over-it < 1253569680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scratches head < 1253569744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, what's the appropriate reaction when you go to the official website for a TV show, and find that it's on Geocities and most of the links go to under-construction pages? < 1253569762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in an unsurprising move a new entry on my todo list has been created, that of "make a really *Gnome* IRC client featuring integration with Ubuntu's fancy messaging menu thing" < 1253569786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since you don't know what that is unless you use Pidgin or... one other email client, probably, < 1253569807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu < 1253569816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think Empathy integrates it too actually < 1253569827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I certainly went WTF when I saw it the first time... < 1253569832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how old is this show? < 1253569869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's apparently very popular in France, but ran for a few years over in the UK and then went to satellite < 1253569871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several years ago < 1253569881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it look Geocities? < 1253569885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253569889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has that advert sidebar thing < 1253569893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop watching it :P < 1253569896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all geocities pages have that... < 1253569901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it was optional < 1253569906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253569908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got pretty good at Geocities back when it was popular < 1253569913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could have banner ads instead < 1253569916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's mandatory nowadays at least < 1253569920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which weren't JS-laden, and so tended to work better than the sidebar < 1253569923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I never saw that when I used it... < 1253569929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even on geocities sites < 1253569936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I used to use a script to hide the bar < 1253569937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1253569940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I used to connect a geocities site to a free domain name person < 1253569945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in such a way that the ads cancelled each other out < 1253569949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1253569953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tk? < 1253569955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to some sort of javascript crash < 1253569957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not .tk < 1253569959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cjb.net? < 1253569960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :com-2.net, IIRC < 1253569960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uni.cc? < 1253569965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if it still exists < 1253569965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the ones I used... < 1253569966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1253569972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parked < 1253569979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, parked < 1253569983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, konversation was ported to kde 4 < 1253569989 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253569994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's, uh, still ugly < 1253570008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Version 4.2.2 (KDE 4.2.2) < 1253570016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://konversation.kde.org/screenshots/konversation12-alpha5_3.png ;; heh, this is from an old version... those quick buttons beneath the user list are from X-Chat < 1253570024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are perhaps the ugliest interface ever devised < 1253570038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, wow, do you really deop people that much? < 1253570040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konversation doesn't fill me massively with confidence in terms of programming quality < 1253570058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they were very responsive when I sent them a bug report < 1253570064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a great bug, btw < 1253570070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konversation was my preferred IRC client in 2006 using Kubuntu < 1253570075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing /msg then a channel opened a second tab for the channel < 1253570079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember. < 1253570080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could send but not receive < 1253570085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the version before Kubuntu turned to purple, iirc < 1253570090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Remember when Kubuntu turned purple? < 1253570095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that release was so ugly... < 1253570111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've given up on trying to track irrelevant Konversation UI changes < 1253570118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pillateunlinux.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/4-kubuntu610-1.png < 1253570119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think I used KDE that release < 1253570125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ^ < 1253570137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :window borders: http://openlife.cc/system/files/snapshot1-640x400.png < 1253570146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that link isn't too bad apart from the cog things in the menu sidebar < 1253570155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing I did that release was change the theme, or at least its colours < 1253570158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the purple, man! < 1253570162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was overpowering < 1253570165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider that colour to be purple < 1253570167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shade of blue < 1253570175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then, colours are perceived differently by different people) < 1253570177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the ugliest shade of blue, then < 1253570188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: note that that screenshot is darker than it was < 1253570190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://openlife.cc/system/files/snapshot1-640x400.png < 1253570195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the sidebar background < 1253570202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the colour it was < 1253570245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like it < 1253570246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I mean, the release before was http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/linux/install/files/anomalieaftereboot.png (except that screenshot's tinted too) < 1253570250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was a lot... bluer < 1253570266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, that previous release is far too bluish-cyan < 1253570277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to darken the background of that one to avoid hurting my eyes < 1253570291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WTF? that's not cyan < 1253570299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cyaner than pure blue is < 1253570300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure your display is adjusted right? < 1253570305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very much blue < 1253570316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try changing the alpha < 1253570319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it obviously goes cyan when lightened < 1253570326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas, blue goes lilacy when lightened < 1253570328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gamma < 1253570329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, my display is calibrated... < 1253570354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is totally blue, man. < 1253570358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you extract RGB codes from xmag? < 1253570366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hover over a pixel < 1253570373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing happens < 1253570375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1253570376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click it < 1253570380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold down < 1253570380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1253570384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, click < 1253570397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6291d5 < 1253570405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's substantially greener than it is red < 1253570408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bluish-cyan < 1253570413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/me removed the repeats) < 1253570417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slightly purplish blue... < 1253570430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the oracle link that gave that colour < 1253570443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtttttttttfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff444444444444444444444455555555555555555554555555555555555555555555555555oh crpa < 1253570445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap < 1253570456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you broke him. < 1253570468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is annoying < 1253570473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the openlife.cc title bars are 6977a6 < 1253570487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: openlife.cc is 6.10 < 1253570490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my last link was 6.04 < 1253570492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again very slightly greener than red, although that's almost exactly pure blue < 1253570495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the non-puple < 1253570495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm comparing the two links < 1253570509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you say is non-purple I say is bluish-cyan, and the hex agrees < 1253570509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :title bas a ielevant < 1253570524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really not interested in this < 1253570525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you say is purple I say is blue, and the hex agrees < 1253570529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, this is a silly topic < 1253570533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, look at the sidebar < 1253570540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Appearance selection, say < 1253570544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so purple < 1253570569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey < 1253570569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EdgyEft/RC/Kubuntu - Ubuntu Wiki < 1253570570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For information on previous releases of Kubuntu 6.10, the Edgy Eft, ... it has been decorated with the latest purple scheme, and the Kubuntu gears logo. ... < 1253570573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7579ba < 1253570578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greener than it is red < 1253570580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Bug 62618] edgy default purple color ugly < 1253570580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27 Sep 2006 ... [Bug 62618] edgy default purple color ugly. Marc Schiffbauer ... theme (window decorations and background) that kubuntu 6.10 has as default. ... < 1253570580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-bugs@lists.../msg60562.html - Cached - Similar - < 1253570583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Artwork/Incoming/Attic/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas - Ubuntu Wiki < 1253570583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 Aug 2008 ... The vision I have for Kubuntu Edgy is defined by use of color (purple and blue), texture (bubbles and/or a real pic and/or a mix of the two) ... < 1253570586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kubuntu Edgy Eft (Glass) KDE-Look.org < 1253570586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kubuntu Edgy Eft (Glass) KDE-Look.org Community Portal for KDE Themes ... of) and purple for the purists and traditionalists who'll yell "Edgy is purple! ... < 1253570594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Kubuntu 6.10 was purple, and I rest my case. < 1253570595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, the names I use for colours match up with the ones that computers use, but not the ones the general public use < 1253570600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 09:03:37 ais523, and what course is it that lasts that long < 1253570600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does Sweden not have PhDs or something < 1253570604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different terminology < 1253570606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: including the people behind it < 1253570630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just surprised that people can call 7579ba purple < 1253570638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, most people consider, say, ddddff purple < 1253570641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use "course" both for the full thing and for stuff like "networking in java"? < 1253570645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1253570650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i think < 1253570650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1253570661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's only correct usage for the full thing < 1253570664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second would technically be "module" < 1253570668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people call it "course" often anyway < 1253570695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I find it odd that Gnome has a bunch of disparate download folder settings, and each app does its own download manager < 1253570707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how confusing < 1253570721 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What should one call 7579ba < 1253570723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Gnome way would be to have a folder ~/.gnome2/downloads that every app downloads to, and when you open it in Nautilus it's special (like the Wastebasket or a CD) < 1253570731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'd consider it a shade of blue < 1253570733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always displays as a list, and you have progess bars/a cancel button < 1253570738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus that orange header saying "Downloads" < 1253570742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's as green as it is red, and it's bluer than that < 1253570746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can move them elsewhere < 1253570750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nor is it very white, grey, or black < 1253570753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it odd they haven't done that < 1253570755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they plan to < 1253570775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's evidence they plan to, at least < 1253570779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the folder actually opened would be downloads:/ < 1253570781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it would be (loosely translated): "master program" (bleh for Swenglish) but the "networking in java" would be called "kurs" which according to dictionaries means "course" < 1253570785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a setting for download folder in one of the conf files somewhere < 1253570791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd show files from ~/.gnome2/downloads < 1253570797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which explains why I was confused why it was so long < 1253570810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just the centralised download location or the Nautilus thing too? < 1253570832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How confusing; around here a "course" is a single-topic lectures-and-so-on usually-ends-in-an-exam thing, and a "module" is one of a couple of multi-course building blocks which together make up the degree. < 1253570836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Nautilus seems not to know of it < 1253570842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, nothing seems to download there except manually < 1253570849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I invented it < 1253570858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I think I borked the config when I accidentally renamed every file in my home directory < 1253570859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: read up to "incidentally, I find it odd that Gnome has a bunch of disparate download folder settings, and each app does its own download manager" onwards for a few lines < 1253570872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I explain a more Gnomey system that I'm surprised hasn't been adopted already < 1253570872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't nearly as bad as deleting the thing by mistake, but it certainly caused a lot of chaos < 1253570887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as the desktop couldn't find ~/Desktop, so defaulted to ~ < 1253570894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the desktop contained everything in my home folder < 1253570898 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253570903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Lavender is pretty close to ddddff and it's a shade of purple < 1253570918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that ECTS standard "credit" for amount-of-study; can't seem to find out whether they've standardised any related terminology. < 1253570928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I suppose colour names are almost impossible to standardise across people < 1253570933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, ddddff is blue by definition < 1253570942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I base my recognition of colours on that definition < 1253570954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue is 0000ff :-P < 1253570955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says lavender is e6e6fa, which is more green/red and less blue < 1253570960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, ubuntu 6.10 was lavender < 1253570964 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a "tint of violet" < 1253570978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what colour would you say indigo was, by the way? < 1253570980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always wondered < 1253570987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indigo < 1253570988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever since people said there were 7 colours in a rainbow < 1253570995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indigo's allegedly some sort of dark blue < 1253570998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there isn't dark blue in a rainbow < 1253571001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indigo is purple < 1253571004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the colours are much the same brightness < 1253571007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In U.S. education, a course is a unit of teaching that typically lasts one academic term, is led by one or more instructors (teachers or professors), has a fixed roster of students, and gives each student a grade and academic credit.-- Courses are made up of individual sessions, typically on a fixed weekly schedule." That sounds like our courses. < 1253571009 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call it dark purple < 1253571011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253571015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the shade < 1253571017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for physics reasons < 1253571018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either blue or purple < 1253571022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly purple < 1253571032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if US and UK used the terms differently, it would explain the confusion < 1253571066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, it's rather obvious from the years < 1253571146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, one of Epiphany/WebKit's current flaws is that it has no extensions < 1253571156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll install Ubuntu epiphany-gecko and see if it can do the search bar thing < 1253571189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.rlove.org/2005/10/with-little-help-from-your-compiler.html <-- ouch < 1253571197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people are complaining about the semantic changes depending on compiler in that < 1253571209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I noticed was that they were messing with double-underscore identifiers they weren't allowed to use < 1253571219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __pure can literally do /anything/ in the C standard, for instance < 1253571221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see what OED says. Wow, that's a long entry; that word is so very overloaded. Full of stuff like "b. Eccl. The prescribed series of prayers for the seven canonical hours." but nothing about education-related terminology. < 1253571242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's wrong with that post? < 1253571245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can even imagine a legit non-DS9K compiler in which that sort of thing causes link errors < 1253571250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the reddit article explains half the problems < 1253571253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, I hate xchat-gnome; like xchat, it has absolutely no line spacing between lines < 1253571258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading IRC is quite a chore... < 1253571262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, look at __packed, for instance < 1253571267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you didn't link to the relevant reddit thing < 1253571267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes a semantic change to the code < 1253571275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9mg4l/with_a_little_help_from_your_compiler/ < 1253571287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "For instance." Any others/ < 1253571291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s:/:?: < 1253571324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of them could bork system headers < 1253571327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the #define inline in particular < 1253571333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "You can always make your own font-variant which includes the line-spacing you want." < 1253571343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So #include it after headers < 1253571350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that a quote :D < 1253571350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the define on __const < 1253571357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It is now! < 1253571364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: say it again so it is! < 1253571373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "You can always make your own font-variant which includes the line-spacing you want." < 1253571387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh man, what idiot said that? < 1253571402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the likely and unlikely macros are crazy, in that the gcc versions cast to boolean, the non-gcc versions leave it as an int < 1253571402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It was this fizz-erly-something guy. < 1253571421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what a moron! < 1253571438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's boolean defined as? < 1253571444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mean, !!x < 1253571449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which casts to boolean whether it's defined or not < 1253571457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Meh, "likely/unlikely" pale in comparison with the __assume intrinsic of VC++. It's for when you assert and mean it, like a real man! It allows you to bend software reality any way you want! Say __assume(x == 4) and the compiler would eliminate the variable by constant propagation. Say __assume(0) and the compiler would consider the containing piece of code unreachable and eliminate it.]] < 1253571458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want that < 1253571464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"#define __malloc" is great, too < 1253571464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1253571474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whether it's defined or not"? < 1253571480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether boolean is defined or not < 1253571486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, NetHack has a typedef something boolean < 1253571490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many other codebases do too < 1253571498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and splint lets you tell it what your boolean type is called < 1253571518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253571519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure you can say "cast to boolean" when they actually don't do *that* much to the type, just clamp the values to 0, 1. < 1253571536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's the same thing as casting to (C99's) boolean, isn't it? < 1253571558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun thing about "#define __malloc" is that __malloc is an /incredibly/ likely token to appear in system headers < 1253571558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Pidgin is a terrible IRC client, but I wonder if libpurple(the library underneath)'s IRC support is any good? < 1253571567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope not, because I like inventing the wheel :P < 1253571572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't !!1L still a long, while (boolean)1L might not be? I don't really know, that's just what I'd think. < 1253571574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and deleting it at random could create all sorts of fun < 1253571581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I like reinventing it too, really < 1253571588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, "libpurple(the library underneath)'s" < 1253571595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: both resulting values will cast to the same values if cast to the same type, though < 1253571597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone run into a similar syntactical quandary before? < 1253571607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can do that in email addresses < 1253571614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253571644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it makes a difference if you put them to the X in "long foo = INT_MAX + X", I guess? < 1253571648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__assume would be easy enough to implement in C-INTERCAL, anyway < 1253571656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And a C or C++ program that names a type something_t is also not portable as _t is reserved either by the C standard or by POSIX." < 1253571659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it would have to be an operator, because the optimiser doesn't cross statements yet < 1253571666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(predicting flow control is far too difficult in INTERCAL) < 1253571668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that answers my question about whether I should name my types like that in the Splinted program... < 1253571685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, _t is reserved by POSIX unconditionally for future expansion < 1253571694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by C99 for certain patterns before the underscore < 1253571706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... alt-tab has an annoying lag in metacity < 1253571724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can't have a function called is followed by a lowercase letter followed by anything, or str followed by a lowercase letter followed by anything < 1253571770 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can have a function called is or str followed by a lowercase letter followed by nothing? < 1253571802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The _t typedef naming is pretty common; people like to live dangerously. < 1253571816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is in anything, isn't it? < 1253571818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do anything." < 1253571867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, "followed by anything" means nothing. < 1253571889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it means that folllowed by anything means some or no text. < 1253571921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omitting it implies "end of text"; i.e., strx is illegal but strxfoo isn't. < 1253571957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, I suppose. < 1253572008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you can gpg-encrypt a loopback device as an alternative to truecrypt :-D < 1253572046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, mount a two-way FIFO < 1253572049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as loopback < 1253572055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have it gpg encrypt/decrypt < 1253572066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # define ASSERT(e) ( ((e) || assert(__FILE__, __LINE__) ) < 1253572068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound very seekable. < 1253572071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it me, or is there something very wrong with that line? < 1253572081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does VC++ use a nonstandard definition of assert? < 1253572132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: overloaded? < 1253572137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is C++, after all < 1253572151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, it decrypts it all at first < 1253572154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assert's defined as a macro in the standard headers < 1253572160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: although I guess that's keeping it in memory < 1253572161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1253572165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what if it's slow! :D < 1253572171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are defined by the standard < 1253572173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't overload macros < 1253572177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and that's defined in the standard headers, so they're exempt. < 1253572192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly it's defined before #define assert() < 1253572192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1253572192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assert is their function defined before < 1253572202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: besides < 1253572203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a code example < 1253572205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define assert(x) foo < 1253572207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then < 1253572209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that definition of ASSERT isn't a standard one < 1253572209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assert(x,y) < 1253572212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't use assert, does it? < 1253572217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1253572277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Evaluates an expression and, when the result is false, prints a diagnostic message and aborts the program. < 1253572281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's the /correct/ definition < 1253572298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have no clue what's going on here < 1253572339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they suggest that code should use System::Diagnostics::Debug::Assert instead < 1253572383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a code example, it might be, you know, wrong. Or trying to show how to implement an assert macro (called "ASSERT") with file-and-line-printing, using a custom underlying assert() function, without thinking about the standard assert at all. < 1253572392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that it's wrong < 1253572399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still shoddy behaviour, though < 1253572416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if it's meant to be a custom assert, it's incredibly bad style and thus shouldn't be used in code examples in the official documentation < 1253572418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you are allowed to name a function assert() if you want, and call it too, as long as you don't include ? < 1253572647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, firefox crashed < 1253572663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to install epiphany-gecko because I'm too lazy to add the PPA for now and this might have useful extensions < 1253572729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know if apt-get purge wipes gconf things too? < 1253572742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know < 1253572748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I know that I don't know < 1253572751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I don't know whether I know < 1253572760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I'd said "no", that would also be ambiguous < 1253572762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trippy < 1253572820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: another problem I have with Epiphany is that it uses Gnome default settings for the default font size; in my case 10pt < 1253572828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the default size on the web tends to be 12pt = 16px < 1253572842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so and other pages using sizes relative to the default have small text < 1253572848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is intensely irritating < 1253572854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and applies to quite a bit of pages < 1253572861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there used to be an option to change this < 1253572867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems they removed that, which is a fun regression < 1253572987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :websites saying smaller-than-default font for everything are insane < 1253572990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, it's the website's fault < 1253573007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, for sizing text? < 1253573020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for putting a relative size on text that doesn't leave most of the text on the site at default < 1253573023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's default for a reason! < 1253573059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and that reason being that firstly it's a fucking pain to change it and secondly almost all users won't bother changing it even if they can. < 1253573068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, no, wait, that's an argument for a browser being PRACTICAL. < 1253573073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I prefer the 16px font on the web < 1253573087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't change it without changing the font size for ALL documents, including IRC, because it's the DEFAULT SIZE. < 1253573098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you prefer websites and nonwebsites to have differently sized text? < 1253573116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a lot of things, yes. < 1253573126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly enough, most applications are unlike a web browser. < 1253573127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an attitude I find hard to understand < 1253573136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's text in both cases, and in both cases generally I want to read it < 1253573140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you barely use any programs < 1253573144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I want it at a good size for me to read < 1253573161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not "text" in both cases < 1253573163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an article < 1253573175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Document" in Gnome is almost everything in the window body < 1253573185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from UI elements < 1253573274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so suppose you were reading an IRC log in your browser < 1253573280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you want that a different size from talking on IRC? < 1253573293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprisingly enough, it's called a default because it's not appropriate in ALL cases. < 1253573309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, wait, in ais523's idealised web nobody sets the font size because the default is always right. < 1253573335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm sort of in favour of semantically correct web pages with no stylesheets < 1253573352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't get away with it because IE's default stylesheet is (or at least used to be) truly awful < 1253573364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, you want to codify every type of information, every context it might be presented in, and just about everything in one XML schema. < 1253573366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, good luck. < 1253573411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the correct appearance of information tends to correlate very much with what that information is < 1253573436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, reading an email is much the same as reading an essay < 1253573503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should become dictator and then force everyone to read one typography book and one information design book < 1253573523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pros: world becomes a better place < 1253573527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons: moral code violated < 1253573528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tricky < 1253573674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the Epiphany in the Ubuntu repositories has the required settings to untiny the fonts < 1253573699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're set to the right thing by default, except you have to move it one down and one up < 1253573713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because it's filling it in without having saved it yet, and the backend doesn't use the default as the default shown there... < 1253573916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know how to delete a gconf folder? < 1253573920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253573923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly mess with gconf < 1253573934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted to go around endlessly configuring things, I'd use KDE < 1253574013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, uh, thanks for the dismissal but i was trying to remove the old epiphany prefs < 1253574026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rm -rfing the dir got rid of the preferences, but left the folder < 1253574038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess gconf-daemon isn't synchronized yet < 1253574044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading up on IA64 asm coding: conclusion is IA64 really rocks < 1253574049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an architecture < 1253574052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it really doesn't < 1253574057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad it failed commercially < 1253574058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that it turns out to be slower < 1253574090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how much is due to it being so different that usual compilers didn't work very well. Because that is one known issue with it. < 1253574102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it was just really slow in general. < 1253574120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but predicated execution! And lots more. < 1253574160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also why? some fundamental deign flaw or just poor implementation? < 1253574181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on the hardware level I mean) < 1253574200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering how much money Intel put into it and how much marketing and the fact that they've made a bunch of Itanium-based processors, and they're all slow, I conclude that the architecture sucks. < 1253574222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it benchmarked? < 1253574232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253574239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just slow. In general. At everything. < 1253574248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, C code for benchmarking? < 1253574255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :................. < 1253574291 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253574293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? I'm just asking about the details for how it was deemed slow < 1253574293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM were claiming to get something like 5 times the performance for the same power usage recently < 1253574298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't know what those figures are based on < 1253574305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's almost certainly been marketing-spun to some extent < 1253574328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because it was slow. at. everything. < 1253574343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like asking what code was used to conclude that the Pentium 4 is slower than the Core 2. < 1253574351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not slow at some benchmark. It's just slow in general. < 1253574356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make -j1.5 < 1253574372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wrong window. < 1253574373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, How was it messured. I mean, looking at the IA64 architecture it would be best at very parallel tasks, with few dependencies < 1253574388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, it was a joky example of how to benchmark processors < 1253574388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How was WHAT measured? < 1253574390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS SLOW IN GENERAL! < 1253574394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than stuff where each calculation depends on the previous part < 1253574397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At everything! By multiple people! < 1253574401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just slow! < 1253574411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but what was the specific benchmarks < 1253574416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253574423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can see it is basically SIMD most of the time < 1253574453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In AnMaster's world, if someone says "the processors turned out to all be slow", that means they're referring to a single run of benchmarks by a single group as opposed to it JUST BEING SLOW. < 1253574483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm wondering what sort of reports you will write at uni when you get there < 1253574485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1253574532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: am I being insane or is he responding to "Itanium turned out to be slower than x86 in every processor they've made" with "You will fail at university because you aren't providing a meticulous citation to a single source of a single benchmark run" < 1253574573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think ehird's trying to say that eir opinion isn't rigorous, just an estimate based on eir own experience < 1253574584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the gaps as large as e claims, an estimate will easily be good enough < 1253574585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah. < 1253574586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what I'm saying at all < 1253574586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gap's < 1253574593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said anything close to that < 1253574606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seemed like it < 1253574672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, the concept sounds good, possibly the implementation (the actual architecture) was sucky. basic stuff like predicated execution, VLIW, and so on is all great < 1253574684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a lot more money has been spend on x86 < 1253574687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than IA64 < 1253574692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over the years < 1253574768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less work often means worse results. Not implying that IA64 had a small budget or effort wasn't spent on it. Just saying overall, x86 had a lot more of that during the years < 1253574851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1253574890 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253575103 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How fast CPU is is affected by lots of things. Clock frequency, pipeline depth, auxillary function units, proneness to hazards, etc... < 1253575127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what benchmarks proved this? < 1253575134 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netburst P4 was bad at pretty much everything except clock frequency. < 1253575135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want specific benchmarks! < 1253575139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you don't have any? < 1253575142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess you fail at life < 1253575152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253575273 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longer pipeline slows things down by being so long that one can't get enough paralelism to keep the CPU busy. Also, cost of triggering hazard is proportional to length of pipeline. < 1253575288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pipelines have a weird effect on efficiency < 1253575297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they increase latency, increase throughput, and make mispredictions worse < 1253575373 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there is some sweet spot where performance enchancement due to higher clock frequency and de-enhancement due to insufficient paralelism and hazards balance... < 1253575456 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at given clock frequency, lengthening the pipeline tends to be negative impact... < 1253575617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253578863 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1253580381 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253580658 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-164-33-22.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253581439 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253581593 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253581626 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-158.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253582153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ehird submits login form < 1253582161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ? [OK] [Cancel] < 1253582169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except without the ?, just wanted to show it was a dialog box) < 1253582177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it yes/no? < 1253582179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't recall < 1253582197 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get On With It! < 1253582403 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why applications used by (l)users that show dialogs should have feature that logs for each dialog box: Who got it, When, what was the title, what was the message, what were the choices, what choice user made and how long it took for user to decide. :-> < 1253582430 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253582554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Or just not pop up empty dialog boxes :P < 1253582637 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the ultimate "dilemma dialog"... Dialog box with no text and two buttons, "Yes" and "No". < 1253582647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what Epiphany gave me. < 1253582649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Also, wouldn't that be better displayed by repeating the dialog box with the chosen option in the push-down state and the unchosen option greyed out? < 1253582662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with any checkboxes on it, etc. < 1253582795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: In fact, why not just constantly capture a video of the screen? :P < 1253582911 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Would take too much space. < 1253582924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: How big is your disk? < 1253583005 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: This is old and crappy computer: 39 036 692KiB FS total space. < 1253583081 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253583101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 39 036 692 kilobytes in gigabytes < 1253583102 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.ngindex.com/browsegroup.php?groupid=150 - [15]Cached - [16]Similar < 1253583109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 39036692 kilobytes in gigabytes < 1253583110 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39 036 692 kilobytes = 37.2282906 gigabytes < 1253583116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ouch. < 1253583126 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Ouch. < 1253583155 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM size is quite "ouch" as well... < 1253583485 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, buying new computer isn't just going to large deparment store and buying something... At least not if you at all care what you get... < 1253583868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buying a ThinkPad and plugging a monitor into it is probably the easies/cheapest way to get a good prebuilt computer :P < 1253583888 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuck. Laptops. < 1253583910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't exactly matter if you plug in a monitor and peripherals. < 1253583926 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... Let's just say that "prebuilt" is not an absolute requirement... < 1253583934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I was just responding to that line. < 1253583968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, it's not exactly hard... you only need a handful of components and the choice is usually clear. < 1253584094 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253584095 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253584095 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253584101 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case, PSU, CPU, Memory, Motherboard, optical drive, HDD, Video card (if you care about video performance or motherboard has no video controller), NIC (again if not integrated), FDD (if one really wants one)... Anything else? < 1253584123 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, sound card (if not integrated). < 1253584164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget video card, NIC and FDD: get a motherboard with those integrated (Nvidia for the graphics, due to having the best Linux performance and good performance in general) and who uses floppy (although it's a $5 affair) < 1253584181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So case, PSU, CPU, memory, mobo, optical, drive, maybe floppy drive. < 1253584300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newegg is the thing to find what to buy, although not to actually buy unless you're in the US... but there isn't much actual choosing to do: optical drives are pretty much the same unless you're talking pricey. < 1253584316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with cases above a minimum baseline, unless you care a lot about noise levels. < 1253584334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's pretty much five choices to make, and they're mainly based on budget... < 1253584350 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably best to start with motherboards, then that constrains memory/CPU... < 1253584355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1253584366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: although the best thing to decide is AMD or Intel imo < 1253584380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that basically comes down to budget < 1253584403 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some serious old-school, but I would really like PS/2 input ports and VGA output... :-) < 1253584414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every mobo has that, except maybe VGA. < 1253584424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also get PS/2 adapters, unless you really hit more than six keys at once. < 1253584448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobo is pretty constrained, though, as there aren't all that many desktop mobos with Nvidia graphics. < 1253584457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than ATI, I'd say. Although I'm not sure there. < 1253584495 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More "ouch" from this computer: current X graphics driver: fb. < 1253584506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Holy shit. < 1253584600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as CPUs go it's pretty simple... AMD if you're on a budget, otherwise a Core 2 Duo, or a Quad if you care about performance, or a Core i7 if you *really* care about performance and have infinite money... < 1253584601 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it isn't going to be gaming setup. So I don't think graphics performance is that important. Stability is. < 1253584621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvidia drivers for linux are the second most stable to intel, but the Intel drivers are really, really, really bad < 1253584648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably slower than your fb there < 1253584727 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-205.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253584727 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253584727 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253584734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I said five choices, but PSU is pretty much "get the highest-rated ~300-350W in your budget" unless you have a beefy CPU... < 1253584808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then CPUs and therefore motherboards aren't choices either, being primarily budget-based... and cases don't matter as long as they're not plastic crap... and memory is basically DDR2 vs DDR3, and since DDR2 is cheaper and most cpus/mobos don't support DDR3... < 1253584814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the only choice is the drive. < 1253584830 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one can get kernel-level framebuffer, then one could configure X to use fb. That should get crappy drivers out of hotpath... :-/ < 1253584865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The proprietary Nvidia drivers are pretty much rock-solid, being used by a huge portion of Linux users. < 1253584888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if I wouldn't accept any proprietary software at all, I'd get an Intel card and deal with the slowness... < 1253584913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but then I'd also use that funky non-free-stuff extracted kernel, as that's about as non-free < 1253585134 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... I just thought about video driver stability: "What could posibly go wrong with vesafb" (not many video cards support that but)... Since in normal operation it essentially is device that just exports mapping of I/O memory. :-> < 1253585345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a lot. < 1253585366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's nice to have speed greater than a tortoise. < 1253585575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I think you'd like that splitting window manager for the linux console I found a while back :-P < 1253585654 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough charcters. Fullscreen Xterm is 212 by 76 characters. < 1253585669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You can have framebuffer consoles. < 1253585679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this was what the "screenshots" given used, I think < 1253585875 0 :Slereah!n=butt@92.135.29.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253586487 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253586535 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253586829 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253587058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution for Evince PDF-in-browser with mozplugger displaying the menu: change evince to evince --preview. < 1253587077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kittens and bunnies will fly out of your nose. Also a rainbow. < 1253587291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds painful < 1253588068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two downsides of mozplugger+Evince: < 1253588077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With preview mode, at least, in Epiphany a new window flashes for a split second. < 1253588099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it sucks up all your keybindings so you can't go back or close the window or anything... which *really* sucks. < 1253588460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why oh why do crazy people want a calendar integrated to their email client? < 1253588462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different. things! < 1253588467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Things < 1253589451 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253589943 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253590606 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1253590606 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1253590617 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen the brief intro to the haskell "object" language? < 1253590642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1253590664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in attempting to optimize the ghc, the ghc people invented this language beneath haskell < 1253590668 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a sort of minimalist haskell < 1253590673 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with only like 7 core operations < 1253590677 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with multi-lambdas < 1253590716 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that genuinely take multiple values as arguments (without returning a lambda to do so) and return multiple values < 1253590727 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its like impossible to read. lol < 1253590877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this something new or just the old ghc core or g-machine thing? < 1253590884 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its new < 1253590889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot recall anything about multiple _returns_ < 1253590899 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not a multiple return in HASKELL < 1253590905 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather in the intermediate language < 1253590919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the stg-machine, silly < 1253590930 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, i dont know. < 1253590931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i browsed a paper on it once < 1253590934 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget what they called this. < 1253590939 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a video out recently about it tho < 1253590942 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of <>'s < 1253590952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spineless tagless g-machine was the old version at some point < 1253590973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's probably been changed to unrecognizability years ago < 1253590986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh an xml thing? < 1253591015 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1253591028 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> is the equivalent of () in c-like languages < 1253591034 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its sort of an argument tuple < 1253591036 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not a data structure. < 1253591041 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like a lambda of no args is < 1253591053 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\<> -> ... < 1253591064 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lambda of one arg \ -> ... < 1253591065 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1253591071 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you apply it similarly < 1253591079 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = \<> -> 5; f <> < 1253591092 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = \ -> 5; f <10> < 1253591250 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because haskell is lazy < 1253591263 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all haskell function arguments are effectively thunks < 1253591269 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are implemented thusly < 1253591294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1253591297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure that is Core. < 1253591302 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in the intermediate language, something like haskell type Int -> Int would become (<> -> Int) -> (<> -> Int) < 1253591307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they have ANOTHER bracketting convention < 1253591310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, are you really educating us on haskell? come on now. < 1253591312 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that <> -> x is just {x} < 1253591322 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the whole intermediate language is impossible to read < 1253591330 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<({Int},{Int})> < 1253591358 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ <(<> -> Int, <> -> Int)> < 1253591360 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1253591384 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ just (Int, Int) ? or something. < 1253591399 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe its <{({Int},{Int})}> < 1253591401 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont even know man < 1253591403 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1253591407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Core is much more readable than what he's proposing. Core is nearly a subset of Haskell... < 1253591408 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was confusion < 1253591417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/proposing/discussing/ < 1253591418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not proposing anything. < 1253591432 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they do all sorts of weird things like having all functions really be wrappers for these < 1253591433 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like < 1253591466 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = \x -> \y -> x+y has a lifted version defined f' = \ -> x+y < 1253591473 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the normal version defined in terms of it < 1253591475 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = \x -> < 1253591493 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = \x -> \y -> f' < 1253591529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lets them do all sorts of weird optimizations like any thing you see f 1 2 the compiler just replaces that with the simpler f' 1 2 < 1253591532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1253591548 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1253591562 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language itself has only like 7 core operations. which is interesting. < 1253591576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is defined in terms of those < 1253591576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug. < 1253591588 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vimeo.com/6688091 < 1253591589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: This is almost certainly not GHC's underlying form. < 1253591594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it is now! < 1253591603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC compiles to C-- before machine code. C-- is *far* richer in semantics. < 1253591617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This lesser-semantic version almost certainly doesn't optimise better. < 1253591619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: in what version? < 1253591619 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, well < 1253591620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVS? < 1253591629 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be intermediate between GHC and C-- even < 1253591637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's Core. < 1253591639 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know, just watch the video. < 1253591642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also semantically much richer. < 1253591648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it work without audio? < 1253591652 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1253591670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, how long is this thing? < 1253591680 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half an hour maybe? < 1253591681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that video is a proposal < 1253591686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not something accepted < 1253591689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the introduction < 1253591709 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im pretty sure he said its what theyre moving towards presently. < 1253591745 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe its not fully implemented in the standard builds and such < 1253591755 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably isnt < 1253591759 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1253591765 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats irrelevant to the point < 1253591769 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is < 1253591770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is your mom < 1253591772 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit is craaaazy < 1253591772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we don't diss her < 1253591776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SNAP < 1253591796 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out the video tho dude < 1253591797 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its cool < 1253591819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are borderline ADHD, so am I < 1253591829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's the border at the other side < 1253591847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have trouble paying attention to music videos! < 1253591848 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHDA? < 1253591852 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253591860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a text transcript and I might read it in spurts :P < 1253592548 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im off to code, read, then sleep < 1253592549 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya < 1253592706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur's OS is single-tasking. < 1253592711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253592795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't code and irc simultaneously :P < 1253592818 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sick < 1253592820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and extraordinarily tired < 1253592821 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1253592822 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant < 1253592859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253593669 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@83.194.172.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253594358 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1253594442 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253595036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to make evince always use continuous mode? < 1253598936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253599325 0 :Warrigal_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253599331 0 :deschutron!n=alex@115-166-37-114.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1253599335 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1253600308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdf < 1253600407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, r.e.s. is wiking again. < 1253600546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BitBitJump&diff=next&oldid=15588 < 1253600547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BitBitJump&diff=next&oldid=15696 < 1253600552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems Oleg has an attitude problem. < 1253600684 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253600899 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253601116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hungry.com/old-hungry/products/gwp/gwp-screenshot-30-10-1998.png ;; jesus christ < 1253602088 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253602540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ẞo, Unicode haß had a ußeful character for capitalising ßnakes since 2008: ẞ, capital ß. < 1253602550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snake < 1253602554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*capitaliing < 1253602662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From addressing point of view BitBitJump is in the same category as Subleq or any microprocessor assembly language. If I understand correctly, you say that the language is TC given the word size enough (and memory) for an algorithm, but not TC if the memory or the word size is finite. That would be true for any TC language with limited memory. However, to make a language TC, as I mentioned above, you do not need infinite memory inside the abstract machine < 1253602662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. The pragmatics of the language (or environment) can be changed so, that it can provide enough external memory to realize a particular algorithm." < 1253602664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, the stupid burns. < 1253603164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me, or are spreadsheets like an unstructured combination of a mathematical environment and a record-keeping environment, with the former being forced into columns and rows because it wouldn't work otherwise? < 1253603170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly we need an esoteric spreadsheet < 1253603191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the features are specially tuned to let you use the bizarre equations, and to dissuade all record keeping < 1253603472 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: or using triangular cells. < 1253603487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: ooh, how about circular? then you can have infinite cells < 1253603491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :covering up the tiny holes < 1253603501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zooming spreadsheet interface < 1253603516 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the end it stores both formula (=code) and data in the one sheet, just like funge < 1253603571 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i recall correctly someone made excel implementation of funge (or orthogonal, whichever)... right? < 1253603714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in funge, you mean? < 1253603716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly. < 1253603719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1253603722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1253603729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: an implementation in VBA macros you mean? < 1253603746 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. of course VBA is required. < 1253603757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, that's just a visual basic implementation then < 1253603778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spreadsheets are quite pure mathematically, but I don't know if they're a very good model for actual things... < 1253603788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why an esoteric one would be fun < 1253603828 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion spreadsheets are just like RDBMS. there are tasks suitable for RDBMS (and thus spreadsheets) and tasks not suitable for them. < 1253603870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean they are like RDBMS or they are like RDBMS in their suitability? < 1253603878 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former. < 1253603900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think they are like RDBMS at all: a spreadsheet is fundamentally a 2-dimensional vector of equations operating on the vector < 1253603905 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously spreadsheet lacks general JOINability, but that doesn't make much difference < 1253603913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and depending on those elements they use < 1253603915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the updating < 1253603925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RDBMSs are far more static < 1253603930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have that dependency-based calculation < 1253603973 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be alternative to JOINs... < 1253603988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253604034 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i don't argue that spreadsheet can be translated to (or back from) RDBMS of course. :) < 1253604042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't think they're similar :) < 1253604061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean as far as a 2d grid of numbers goes, sure, but that's totally not what spreadsheets are about < 1253604063 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to point out some similarities. < 1253604078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1253605067 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253605353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1253605364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1253605377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay away from Oleg, i fear some kind of chain reaction... < 1253605501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: howso? < 1253605505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm interested now :) < 1253605511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, attitude? < 1253605522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1253605523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not passive-aggressive, I'm just a dick < 1253605558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know why he reverted those changes (one of them yours), btw? < 1253605562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, no edit summary < 1253605570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um when was that < 1253605581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : asdf < 1253605582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey, r.e.s. is wiking again. < 1253605582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BitBitJump&diff=next&oldid=15588 < 1253605582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BitBitJump&diff=next&oldid=15696 < 1253605582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : seems Oleg has an attitude problem. < 1253605589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this month. < 1253605917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's caught up in that whole discussion < 1253606064 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have finite size address? < 1253606149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be made infinite (see my first couple talk page comments) but it would be incompatible with the finite size versions < 1253606187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: see current page. < 1253606190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not tc. < 1253606202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically without that assembler stuff you cannot possibly make bitsize-insensitive programs < 1253606206 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, then it certainly cannot be TC. he seems not understand the concepts... < 1253606217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not obviously anyway < 1253606262 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253606291 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-12-246.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253606399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253606400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253606511 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253606616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253607681 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253608995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253609149 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253609445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253609460 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253609726 0 :fadeout!n=mflevrn@ip68-0-181-106.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253609813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fadeout < 1253609817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen your name around here before < 1253609818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new? < 1253609828 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1253609865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably for the programming languages and not the magick, considering your channels < 1253609880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the latter of which, contrary to popular opinion, we do not engage in. most of the time.) < 1253609936 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, new to ubuntu linux, not so new to irc, though its been a long time since ive been on < 1253609953 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ubuntu channel got me on here, now im bored and looking for interesting channels < 1253609971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, how did the ubuntu channel get you here? < 1253610002 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the help < 1253610016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? where do they mention us? < 1253610038 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that channel didnt get me to esoteric < 1253610077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :) < 1253610082 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got to this channel via browsing the channel list (which isnt too extensive on this server) and "esoteric" caught my attn. even at this hour most channels are quit < 1253610084 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiet < 1253610093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are fine purveyors, yada yada yada, of esoteric programming languages http://esolangs.org/ < 1253610095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of the time. < 1253610103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically this channel is about everything BUT esolangs. < 1253610114 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, programming < 1253610122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :P < 1253610131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode is a technology server, after all. < 1253610149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, ubuntu is good. hi. < 1253610176 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya ive noticed < 1253610181 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1253610199 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming, thats a new one for me < 1253610208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever heard of Brainfuck? < 1253610209 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i know esoteric and programming < 1253610211 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not together < 1253610225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL? Unlambda? < 1253610230 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative < 1253610233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook? < 1253610235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chef? < 1253610236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piet? < 1253610251 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe negative < 1253610256 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a newb < 1253610257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahaha, a virgin. sacrifice ten goats. < 1253610289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the topic (said by a bot) is a pretty good summation of what we aim for in a language. if it's useful, it's probably bad, and if it's weird, it's good. but preferably novel. < 1253610323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck might help. < 1253610332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(being the most popular esolang) < 1253610357 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is ironic < 1253610370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1253610429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh... no scrollback due to forgetting to quit my irc client at home before going to university today < 1253610436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just read the logs. < 1253610450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, guess what I'm doing? :P < 1253610457 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive just been in conversation with peeps the last few days about career evaluation and how i should have gotten into programming in the first place. What you just said about the summation is right up my alley < 1253610457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complaining :) < 1253610460 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timing is crazy < 1253610478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas there are no companies yet dedicated to esolangs < 1253610484 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1253610491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fizzie ostensibly got a job based on Befunge, if you stretch reality a lot < 1253610493 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spose < 1253610519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well fizzie ostensibly got a job based on Befunge, if you stretch reality a lot <-- huh? I must have missed that < 1253610548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interviewer asked about "Befunge" being listed on his resume and was semi-interested. < 1253610551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's just a matter of perspective. If I choose to believe the Befunge-related conversation during the job interview was what got me hired, who's going to say no. < 1253610559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> Befunge = fizzie job! < 1253610566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: GOD < 1253610568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God will say no. < 1253610571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well you work at an university, so plausible! < 1253610577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, it wasn't this job. < 1253610580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1253610584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Befunge job was actually at Nokia. < 1253610605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! that explains my phone < 1253610606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could go for a mobile with Befunge built in. < 1253610608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ha < 1253610618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They have so many legacy Befunge systems there, they wanted someone who speaks the language." < 1253610630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+$,26~@k < 1253610632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253610636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :46#81,++-q < 1253610640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that supposed to make sense? < 1253610643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of those I mean < 1253610647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I speak Befunge! < 1253610666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I can read it pretty fast and I can tell those doesn't make a lot of sense < 1253610675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I can't actually code in Befunge. < 1253610725 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253610739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ehird < 1253610740 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird ehird < 1253610754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where that animation comes from. < 1253610755 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learned some stuff about mmap() despite being *nix-ignorant < 1253610765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what animation? < 1253610777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, mmap is quite wonderful IMO < 1253610786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, a Compiz thing with the OSD notifications used to fade I think. Maybe. < 1253610790 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ... I hear that not all *nixes support it < 1253610795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not POSIX, right? < 1253610798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes it is... < 1253610802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap is pretty much universal < 1253610804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some *nixes have buggy implementations < 1253610808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never seen a nix without mmap < 1253610811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1253610811 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's what I read, anyways) < 1253610816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even crufty legacy implementations < 1253610822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: sounds like you're reading FUD :) < 1253610834 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just quoting CWS (of CWSDPMI fame) < 1253610834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253610836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it is optional in POSIX.1-2001 but required in POSIX.1-2008 < 1253610868 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, DPMI 1.0 is said to be able to support it, but since that was (is) somewhat rare, nobody bothered < 1253610869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: a win/dos person is unlikely to be unbiased about nix stuff < 1253610875 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though DPMIONE is freeware now < 1253610878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, only DS9K type of *nix tends to lack it < 1253610899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone ought to actually make a DS9K, it doesn't exist < 1253610904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some aspects of some systems < 1253610906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a total system < 1253610907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what is DPMI supposed to be? < 1253610911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about internix? < 1253610917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever MS one was called < 1253610920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix. < 1253610924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253610927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is about as complete as cygwin. < 1253610931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1253610969 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPMI is the DOS-based interface for pmode / selectors / safe API for extended memory etc. (Win16, Win32, OS/2, DOSEMU, CWSDPMI, QDPMI, etc) < 1253610985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right that. But what has it got to do with *nix... < 1253610996 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap() could be supported in DOS/DJGPP via DPMI 1.0 < 1253611013 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was too rare (only 386Max) "back in the day", so they never bothered < 1253611021 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DPMIONE is basically a freeware 386Max) < 1253611027 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same author) < 1253611051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine anyone caring these days < 1253611060 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides me? :-) < 1253611086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yeah < 1253611107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should go use OS/2 too while you are at it! < 1253611137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tempt me ;-) < 1253611230 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Cfunge will require AVX soon :-P < 1253611270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hm? It doesn't require any CPU specific features. It can optionally make use of SSE2, but apart from that it is up to the compiler < 1253611302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus my desktop support up to SSE3, my laptop a bit more, but none with AVX < 1253611311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AVX isn't even out yet. < 1253611328 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1253611328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, it isn't as if I keep track of that < 1253611341 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being facetious < 1253611342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: i was talking to AnMaster < 1253611343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc boch (sp?) implements AVX though < 1253611350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bochs. < 1253611354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253611439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I even tested cfunge on PPC and SPARC (not recently though, only had access to those temporarily) < 1253611487 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Mac OS X dropping PPC support, that's unlikely to get more popular < 1253611510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recently had very brief access to PPC laptop but it was old (Panther) and had no XCode installed yet < 1253611520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and? cfunge has pure C fallbacks for all cpu specific optimised parts. < 1253611530 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke :-P < 1253611546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the ppc I have at home is an first model ibook with dead battery and glitchy power connector < 1253611553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.2 GB harddrive < 1253611557 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oy < 1253611559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs Mac OS 9 < 1253611562 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oy < 1253611564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, before OS X < 1253611581 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably no mmap there < 1253611584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I could put a linux system on nfs and boot that using a cd for loading it < 1253611594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, OS 9 isn't even close to POSIX < 1253611596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1253611602 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I gathered < 1253611636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I booted linux cd on it, shouldn't be impossible to boot a cd and mount root over nfs < 1253611637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1253611660 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naive question, but why did you use mmap in the first place? speed? < 1253611662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macs are supposed to support some other boot over network way, but not PXE iirc < 1253611674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ease of implementation actually < 1253611688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with read() I had to handle \r\n across a read border < 1253611707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mmap I don't have to bother about that < 1253611741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os 9 is the worst operating system ever < 1253611742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1253611750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, worse than OS 7? < 1253611750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, desktop < 1253611753 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse than Win 3.1? < 1253611756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: system 7 was wonderful < 1253611763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimal, fast, usable < 1253611765 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse than DOS? :-) < 1253611765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistent < 1253611768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm, right < 1253611773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, OS 8 then? < 1253611780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 3.1 is limited but not annoying < 1253611787 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1253611790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ran fine on the hardware of the time < 1253611795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh ... no < 1253611798 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucked < 1253611804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, OS 9 ran fine on my ibook though < 1253611808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, win 3.1 sucked < 1253611810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 32 MB ram upgraded to 64 < 1253611815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sucked in a decent way < 1253611821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dos is, ehh < 1253611832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is painful < 1253611833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a purpose and it fulfils it, it just isn't very ambitious and is a bit too minimal < 1253611839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, it wasn't the worst ever, but it was fairly unstable and most apps were just either too ambitious, buggy, etc. < 1253611844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't very much fun to program for, and it's quite unstable < 1253611854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in day-to-day usage it works fine for the time < 1253611864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked* < 1253611864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, OS 9 is worse than all of those < 1253611869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "for the time" < 1253611870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, OS 8 too? < 1253611889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OS 8 was just a revision of System 7 making it more unstable and buggy, but not enough to kill it < 1253611895 0 :fadeout!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253611902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS 8.5, the major release, was just the prelude to the ultimate suckiness of OS 9 < 1253611923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1253611926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS 9 would be half annoying if it wasn't so colossally slow < 1253611932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about system 6 then= < 1253611934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1253611948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system 6 was, uhh, typical black-on-white mac system < 1253611963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also os 9 wasn't slow on that 300 MHz ibook. Maybe you used it on very old hardware? < 1253611967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no real hope programming on it or anything, but it's great at word processing and editing images I guess? < 1253611972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, desktop publishing, the original point of the mac < 1253612005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It had a G3 expansion card, something like 90MiB of RAM (a bit meagre, but come on! I was browsing the filesystem and it was slow) and a 1GB Quantum Fireball disk < 1253612025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be more understandable without the G3, but it has the G3 < 1253612039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was fine on 64 MB ram, 300 MHz G3. The 3.2 GB harddrive was a bit small though < 1253612043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. < 1253612046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really slow for me. < 1253612053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also upgrade boards aren't really that good < 1253612058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure cpu is faster < 1253612063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rest of the system? < 1253612068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the G3 was a major improvement over the predecessors. < 1253612071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, stuff like IO buses and such < 1253612075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90MiB is enough to run the kernel and Finder < 1253612083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it was slow expanding small directories < 1253612089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't the slow you get from being bottlenecked by an IO bus < 1253612092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snappy on the ibook < 1253612098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucky you < 1253612112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, system bus too < 1253612112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for accessing memory < 1253612122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stabby on the iBook. < 1253612150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you called OS 9 unstable I would however agree < 1253612167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it could be any app that crashed it < 1253612168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Finder may have been *acceptable* < 1253612171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but try web browsing < 1253612185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in what? icab? IE? < 1253612191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked perfectly, except for being CRIPPLINGLY SLOW in both UI and rendering (I mean like upwards of a minute to render a google page) in every browser I tried < 1253612192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if IE5, yes quite a pain < 1253612195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE, yeah < 1253612196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but icab was snappy too < 1253612198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is iCab better? < 1253612206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try web browsing with the Performa, where moving the mouse around makes download speeds drop dramatically. < 1253612213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but also sharware iirc < 1253612224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't care, everything on Mac OS was shareware < 1253612228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Stuffit Expander < 1253612257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shareware that refused to work at all one month after release date or something like that < 1253612263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you had to download the last version < 1253612323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big whoop < 1253612341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think on the ibook download speed dropped when you had the mouse button down. but not when just moving it < 1253612362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polling. < 1253612363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it was able to max my connection even over ethernet < 1253612380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cooperative multitasking too < 1253612383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I got pretty much modem speeds over the Ethernet. :p < 1253612383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1MB internet, or crazy Swedish >10MB net speeds? < 1253612385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1253612388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1MB Ethernet, or crazy Swedish >10MB net speeds? < 1253612413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, more like 80 kbps, while I can get 720-780 kbps on my desktop < 1253612431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local over lan I don't remember < 1253612431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define kbps. < 1253612434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kibibytes? < 1253612451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unknown which the mac used. But on desktop yes < 1253612455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253612457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits < 1253612460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bytes < 1253612463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was to internet < 1253612468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kibibytes. < 1253612470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mac had 100 mbps ethernet < 1253612471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024 bytes. < 1253612476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kilobits per second < 1253612480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 1024 yes < 1253612484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. The term is kibibytes. < 1253612486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look it up. < 1253612493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I don't care what you think about that < 1253612509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as you are mixing up bits and bytes anyway < 1253612520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/as/and/ < 1253612534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "kilobit" would be 1000 bits. < 1253612539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how the terminology works. < 1253612551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ethernet speeds are non-binary millions, though; I really think using the powers-of-10 prefixes in "Xbps" makes sense, since that's what they use there. < 1253612553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I don't care what your opinion on this is < 1253612555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, "kibibyte" is the official standard; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte. < 1253612569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobit notes no standardisation. < 1253612584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore "kilobit" is not only illogical (would seem to mean 1000 bits), it's non-standard. < 1253612606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Don't you start with "official standard" when you use a nonstandard "kiB" instead of the standard "KiB". :p < 1253612612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I am considering that. < 1253612614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1253612639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why would you call it my opinion, anyway? I never called it my opinion. < 1253612640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logic vs. standard: the battle. < 1253612654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I called it wrong and provided two reasons for it being so. < 1253612666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, point is my old mac was able to max out my slow 512 kilobit per second ADSL, but not my current 8 megabit per second < 1253612682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no clue if that is 1000 or 1024 < 1253612687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 1000. < 1253612693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general I use kilo for 1024 myself < 1253612695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the decimal definition (1 kilobit per second = 1,000 bits per second) is used uniformly in the context of telecommunication transmission speeds" < 1253612701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I won't change < 1253612727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right. anything to annoy ehird though < 1253612729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1253612747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find people committing suicide by bludgeoning their head against a wall repeatedly very annoying. < 1253612749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please oblige. < 1253612769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then you're going to have to start talking about your 500 kbps and 7.8125 Mbps ADSL links. < 1253612804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is theoretical speed. What I actually talk about is the speed that wget reports for good mirrors < 1253612816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop bringing logic into this. Also standardisation. AnMaster won't use any of those pesky things. < 1253612820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is currently around 760 KB/s at best < 1253612825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoosh? < 1253612834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, with the Performa the bus multiplexing thing was more of a problem; c.f. the http://lowendmac.com/roadapples/x200.shtml numbered list, point 3. < 1253612852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I know about that *shudder* < 1253612873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ethernet card I had was in the comm slot, I think. < 1253612887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ibook had of course built in ethernet < 1253612891 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1253612896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A comm slot modem disables the modem port; a comm slot ethernet card disables the printer port." < 1253612905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, that thing is so messed-up. < 1253612912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch yeah agreed < 1253612919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't remember it was quite that bad < 1253612936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet I still can't not like it. < 1253612944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253612953 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253612956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1253612996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's somehow so endearing. Poor little Performa. < 1253613251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253613255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still have it? < 1253613283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the modem port... was it one of those softmodems? < 1253613295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name... geosomething < 1253613313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it for external modem? < 1253613336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I sold it. And it wasn't a geoport; I think the "modem port" is referring to the serial port it had, which was a very old-fashioned no-hardware-handshaking no-frills rs232 thing. < 1253613348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be wrong, though. < 1253613353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but with a round shape right? < 1253613370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253613378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIN-8 connector. < 1253613380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a performa that had a serial port but with a round connector < 1253613387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the usual PC serial port connector < 1253613420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The pins are compatible to the rs232 standard, I think, it's just the connector that's different. < 1253613427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1253613492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.com/watson-karmic-20090909-3.png makes one want to get a SSD; it shows a Ubuntu Karmic Koala alpha version booting in five seconds on such a system. < 1253613533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, need to relocate myself, so will probably lose connection to bouncer and thus anything said since then. Due to forgetting to quit client at home before I left. < 1253613534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSDs are like awesome. For your computer. < 1253613542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesomeputer! < 1253613555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's some serious multitasking. < 1253613575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the goal for 10.04 is a 10-second boot, iirc, so that must come to like 3 seconds on an SSD... < 1253613599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that "upstart" parallelisizer thing, they claim Karmic's going to start using it really-for-real-now. < 1253613613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that pic shows xulrunner during book? Huh < 1253613625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot* < 1253613628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's starting Firefox, I think. < 1253613633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least some browsery thing. < 1253613637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, during boot? Hehe < 1253613638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like we're also getting couchdb. < 1253613652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, couchdb might be for Firefox. < 1253613655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err. < 1253613658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and erlang too < 1253613658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XULRunner might be for couchdb. < 1253613663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beam.smp is erlang < 1253613669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CouchDB is written in Erlang. < 1253613674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1253613674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xorg starts there somewhere around 2-3 seconds. < 1253613676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot that < 1253613693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway bbl really this time < 1253613697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.10 will be great, but I think that 10.04 will see a lot of big changes... < 1253613718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then 10.10 will come to polish them off. So I think the alliterative release will be when Ubuntu notches up the awesome a whole bunch. < 1253613757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We won't have one of those again until 2104. < 1253613765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, assuming they don't change the schedule before then. :P < 1253613776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, I wonder why 6.06 wasn't in the 4/10 pattern. < 1253613788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Behind schedule. < 1253613796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is just a guess, but they just might change it at some point during the next hundred years. < 1253613804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1253613807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am shocked. < 1253613819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Ubuntu-desktop-2-410-20080706.png < 1253613824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.10 sure was brown. < 1253613851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Karmic announcement mentioned considering a total new look and that "brown has served us well". < 1253613860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's obviously not happening, but I wonder if 10.04 might bring that. < 1253613866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what they've thought of. Please let it not be a dark theme. < 1253613903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised that they've went a bit orange from that... what should I call it, "turd-brown" maybe. < 1253613910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/went/gone/ < 1253613919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My turds are... not that colour. < 1253613944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, it is a bit orangey. < 1253613957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicorn turds look like rainbows. < 1253613968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1253613978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I hope they go for a unified titlebar/toolbar look. < 1253613988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda miss that from OS X, though it's pretty hard to do in GTK. < 1253614008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Unity theme for Metacity and GTK handles it by making the window title the same colour as the whole window, which kinda sucks. < 1253614023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly I just wish they'd antialiase the window corners. < 1253614145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1253614204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:01:58 Then 10.10 will come to polish them off. So I think the alliterative release will be when Ubuntu notches up the awesome a whole bunch. < 1253614205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1253614215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like all release so far? < 1253614218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name thing < 1253614248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number, I guess. < 1253614272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Replacement of Synaptic and other package management-related applications by Ubuntu Software Store is intended to take place in [Lucid Lynx]." < 1253614277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds fancy. < 1253614285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? < 1253614291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why replace < 1253614303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and store? what on earth... < 1253614306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synaptic sucks. < 1253614312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what about it? < 1253614318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, what do you mean about release/name? < 1253614323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 10, 10. Alliterative. < 1253614354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "hardy h" kind of stuff < 1253614358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1253614363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same initial letter < 1253614372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10, 10. < 1253614377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1253614388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was no 4.04, so this'll be the first alliterative release. < 1253614411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore < 1253614412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synaptic is pretty awful, yes; and the fact that there's N graphical package-related things (Synaptic, that add/remove thing, the update manager thing, ...) is quite sucky too. I don't mind a little sensiblization. < 1253614417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Includes mockups and stuff. < 1253614429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add/Remove is for installing and removing applications, Synaptic is for managing packages. < 1253614436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's a semi-sensible divide there. < 1253614442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't the jaunty jackelope or whatever it was called also alliterative? < 1253614447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, all release names are. < 1253614450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care. < 1253614459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, I thought you were referring to that < 1253614461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope this new Store stuff is all based on PackageKit, which is yummy. < 1253614462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name sounds very modern, all mobile things have an "App Store" nowadays, so why not Ubuntu too. < 1253614530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure Store is the best word; I'd expect more a for-pay Canonical-partners thing, which would be lame. < 1253614548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed < 1253614550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the meaning was store as in storage-place, or store ala stall, but still. < 1253614561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely confusing.. < 1253614567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.{2}/./ < 1253614577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what is en:stall? < 1253614591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sv:stall is en:stable, so I first read that as "package stable" < 1253614603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The implication is, like, a tiny little store, one-man sort of thing. < 1253614613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, my Ubuntu just went "war". < 1253614615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And again. < 1253614616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that. < 1253614624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, light pitch. < 1253614625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well en:stall is a technical flight term for "not going fast enough to keep flying" < 1253614626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waar < 1253614634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is a simplification) < 1253614652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your harddrive breaking down maybe < 1253614661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's from Ubuntu. < 1253614667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays the Sounds to see which it was. < 1253614673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it goes away if you turn off sounds? < 1253614688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in there. Oh well, it only did it twice. < 1253614698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a living specification for the utility previously codenamed AppCenter." < 1253614702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a terrible rename. < 1253614706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the SoftwareStore wiki page has renamed categories into "Departments", such as you would find from a physical store; I guess they're driving for that sort of metaphor. Except you only shoplift and never pay. (Well, the word "shoplift" surprisingly isn't mentioned there.) < 1253614710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rename it to Application Centre. < 1253614718 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-hwqulmjjsvjdcvjw JOIN :#esoteric < 1253614721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# < 1253614722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Created: 2005-08-29 by MatthewPaulThomas" < 1253614725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit old, then. < 1253614734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Copying ain't stealing! < 1253614738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But departments? < 1253614744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overly metaphoric fail. < 1253614750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1253614757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In application menus etc, the Store should appear as Ubuntu Software Store.]] < 1253614762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why put "Ubuntu" there? < 1253614764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We know it's Ubuntu. < 1253614767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"get free software" and "store" < 1253614774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concept collision < 1253614779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a wonderful pamphlet given out in a hotel in Tallinn; the title was "Estonian police gives advice on pocket-picking". < 1253614787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1253614798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure hope Matthew Paul Thomas didn't write this whole thing as-is without it being mangled; his usability work is spot-on and he's done some great stuff for Canonical, but this is just terrible. < 1253614803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there were illustrated techniques and best places and so on for pocket-picking. < 1253614831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, notice start menu on a windows pc? Says "microsoft word" "microsoft visual studio" and so on < 1253614834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day, the kernel will merge with KDE. < 1253614840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not "ubuntu" there on ubuntu < 1253614844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, kthreadd and kwrite can live together in happiness! < 1253614846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Aaargh < 1253614856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the analogy has some flaws yes < 1253614864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the Software Store seems like an improvement in all areas but terminology. < 1253614874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where it's a massive regression. < 1253614882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sudo apt-get < 1253614893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your point? < 1253614953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that there is always apt-get around. for those who know how to use command line it is superior most of the time < 1253615004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253615021 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253615027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1253615029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I disagree strongly. < 1253615041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expected you to do so < 1253615064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get install does not integrate discovering new programs with installing them afterwards, it does not give me helpful descriptions of packages laid out in a way tailored for quick comprehension, ... < 1253615072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It simply has no advantages. < 1253615334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm true < 1253615346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, AnMaster agrees with me on the topic of usability. < 1253615351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now *that* IS unprecedented. < 1253615353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for when you know what you need however it is superior < 1253615368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say you are running configure and it complains about missing libfoo headers < 1253615378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you are in a terminal, obviously it is superior. < 1253615381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then sudo apt-get install libfoo works < 1253615405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it is just -dev at the end, sometimes it is versioned like libfoo-1 and libfoo-2 < 1253615422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a few cases it is something like foo-dev instead < 1253615436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But outside of a terminal, "sudo apt-get install foopackagey" vs "foopackage" are pretty much equal. < 1253615442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I almost always have a terminal open < 1253615447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the graphical one probably has a nicer progress bar. < 1253615453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but if you don't know the exact name... < 1253615472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When running shell commands, apt-get wins. When you just want to install something you read about, or when you want to find a program, graphical wins. < 1253615482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true, but you would need to search in your GUI package manager too < 1253615483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not with Synaptic, though, since that's just a bag of hurt. < 1253615498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, but the results are actually readable, as opposed to apt-cache search/apt-cache show. < 1253615504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And apt-cache's search doesn't even work well at all...) < 1253615511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, that would need a better CLI frontend < 1253615539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of hard to do things like make the package descriptions on a new line and more subtle when you can't change the font size. < 1253615540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering coding a simple wrapper script to format and colourise the output. Output would end up similar to eix output < 1253615563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1253615569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like in a terminal. < 1253615573 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253615573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also kinda hard to bring up the extended description of a package in the middle of a scrollthrough if you have no clicking or anything. < 1253615588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, search would be regex based, again similar to eix. < 1253615602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can search on any metadata that exists < 1253615614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who searches with regex? I mostly do things like "wine dev" and "libfoo*". < 1253615621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former is a pain with regex, the latter is slightly more verbose with regex. < 1253615625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never really used anything more. < 1253615626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I search with regex a lot < 1253615633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like? < 1253615634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easy and natural < 1253615651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do fuzzy match search and what not too with eix < 1253615658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some option < 1253615662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example regex-requiring search? < 1253615695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -- -mode$ < 1253615704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-mode < 1253615714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barely any false positives. < 1253615718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would match foo-modebar too < 1253615721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what not < 1253615725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but how common is that? < 1253615732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, do "wine dev" as a regex. < 1253615741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It matches foowinebardev, devwine, winedev, wine--dev, ... < 1253615765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway wildcard is about as hard as regex to write but you have to remember to exclude the . in front of * as well < 1253615782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know what you want to match with wine dev? < 1253615785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, only if you've been bludgeoned with a Koala and think of regex every second of the day. < 1253615789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as I said, eix provides other searches too < 1253615793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wine and dev in any position, order and amount. < 1253615799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck, it'll be verbose as fuck. < 1253615799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freetext, fuzzy and so on < 1253615809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mu < 1253615880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1253615894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, your wonderful regex searches can't do the most basic of operations related to FINDING A PACKAGE. < 1253615896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above, eix supports more than regex. Just regex is default. < 1253615907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you're touting regex search as amazingly awesome. < 1253615927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and they are, of course for some type of searching other variants will be better < 1253615934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, like the most common type. < 1253615937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never disputed that < 1253615942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that I dispute however < 1253615957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your "searches" depend on almost exactly knowing what kind of damn package you want. < 1253615962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the WINE development stuff. < 1253615971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time I'm looking for some specific package name < 1253615974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wine dev". What else am I to type, what expression is more natural, obvious or quicker? < 1253615980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then you're not "searching". < 1253616003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, I'm searching for what exactly the package is. gtk or libgtk? < 1253616012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even likgtk++ or libgtk-2.0 < 1253616018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1253616024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. < 1253616047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here the current search facility on ubuntu are kind of crap in the GUI tool < 1253616064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to give lots of unrelated gtk stuff, where gtk is in description < 1253616073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the one I want is far below < 1253616134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while looking for ^libgtk and if that fails gtk in _package name only_ still may find some unrelated packages, but far fewer < 1253616202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-cache search --names-only ^libgtk < 1253616204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit verbose < 1253616212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to eix ^libgtk < 1253616234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on gentoo it is actually named gtk++ iirc) < 1253616242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still, fairly reasonable second guess) < 1253616268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtk++? It's not gtk++. < 1253616269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gtk+. < 1253616279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry yeah, typoed < 1253616304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it looks like the T60p has the same graphics card as this machine, the X1600, except BIOS-modded for CAD/3D pro apps sort of thing. < 1253616311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upside: Powerful. < 1253616313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downside: drivers. < 1253616314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253616316 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253616318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep doing that < 1253616319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1253616319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1253616330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stop pressing whatever key combo you used there < 1253616335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-w < 1253616344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would you end up pressing that < 1253616360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to close a tab that i failed to alt-tab to because of light prsesing < 1253616362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in xchat atm, for example < 1253616368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253616375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my browser < 1253616383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pressing < 1253616386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, wrong app too < 1253616387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1253616395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-tab to firefox, ctrl-w to close. < 1253616402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253616413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1253616414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1253616415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to epiphany < 1253616417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<3 epiphany) < 1253616425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this particular case "apt-cache search ^libgtk" is likely to find only what you want; there aren't that many packages whose descriptions would start with "libgtk". < 1253616446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/10908.jpg < 1253616454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That windows key there sure is small. < 1253616455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you use znc you can set a channel to sticky to make it auto rejoin your client on part and never forward the part to the server < 1253616457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And alt, too. < 1253616471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The downside of adding a windows key... < 1253616484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true. < 1253616488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the FlexView screen on the 15" is; IPS? < 1253616497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is inherently sticky, hurr hurr. < 1253616508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1253616510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? I like to be able to part easily < 1253616518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, Flexview is IPS. < 1253616522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tee hee. < 1253616526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My notebook could have an IPS screen! < 1253616534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes forgot you did < 1253616543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw I keep pressing Fn instead of ctrl on the notebook < 1253616555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pry it off. :P < 1253616563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, I use fn too < 1253616623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The left one, then. < 1253616629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use the right one. Oh, there is none. < 1253616629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253616679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is here < 1253616685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is next to arrow keys < 1253616691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and smaller < 1253616708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is on that pic too < 1253616737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? < 1253616755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, space, altgr, menu, ctrl, arrow keys < 1253616766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1253616767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the right ctrl < 1253616767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no right fn key < 1253616774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thought you meant ctrl < 1253616777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1253616781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pry left fn key off so no typos, use right :P < 1253616824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 15" 1600x1200 IPS laptop screen y/n < 1253616834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:3, ofc < 1253616835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway fn can't really be remapped, it is "special" in BIOS or something, stuff like Fn-PgUp doesn't ever reach the OS. And it works even before OS is booted < 1253616851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some Fn combos reach the OS though < 1253616908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, 1600x1200 is actually more pixels than I have now. < 1253616921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253616924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving up 80 pixels horizontally for 150 pixels vertically? Sign me up. < 1253616926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I said y/n. < 1253616942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, R < 1253616944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or A < 1253616949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe C < 1253616950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fatal error < 1253616952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt aborted < 1253616952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253616972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay I crashed ehird :D < 1253616980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay not found < 1253616982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To install it, please run: < 1253616986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo yum install yay < 1253616987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253616992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoami < 1253616996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1253616997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id < 1253617018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise I'm over 18 < 1253617018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# this should show me uid < 1253617041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It was a joke. < 1253617049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# I know :P < 1253617058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (Try id again) < 1253617062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id < 1253617068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise I'm under 20 < 1253617068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's mangled that message here to say "ask your administrator". (Or at least I've seen the sudo variant earlier.) < 1253617074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:~$ mc < 1253617074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program 'mc' is currently not installed. To run 'mc' please ask your administrator to install the package 'mc' < 1253617085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Huh. < 1253617087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo shutdown -h now < 1253617088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Debian or Ubuntu? < 1253617096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Systems going for halt... < 1253617099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killing all processes... < 1253617100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 8.10. < 1253617100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# wait, god wouldn't need to su < 1253617103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killing pesky processes... < 1253617106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halting. < 1253617111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**UPS FATAL INTERRUPTION** < 1253617113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**RESTARTING** < 1253617115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1253617122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coreboot version FreeAsInRMS < 1253617124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :booting Linux... < 1253617127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuietKernel v2 < 1253617134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1253617135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root login: autologin < 1253617135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# what a crappy security < 1253617175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# I'm not planning on anyone hacking my brain < 1253617191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /proc/mounts < 1253617192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It's sort of nice to wake up after being unconscious < 1253617207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 < 1253617207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ok that is fail, /proc claims not to be mounted itself < 1253617235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It's a magical rootfs. < 1253617240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's the default message, it just checks sudoers. < 1253617242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if posix.geteuid() == 0: < 1253617242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print >>sys.stderr, _("You can install it by typing:") < 1253617242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print >>sys.stderr, "apt-get install %s" % packages[0][0] < 1253617242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elif self.user_can_sudo: < 1253617243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# with uniponies < 1253617244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print >>sys.stderr, _("You can install it by typing:") < 1253617244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print >>sys.stderr, "sudo apt-get install %s" % packages[0][0] < 1253617247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else: < 1253617247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print >>sys.stderr, _("To run '%(command)s' please ask your administrator to install the package '%(package)s'") % {'command': command, 'package': packages[0][0]} < 1253617249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Uniponies indeed. < 1253617261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It's Linux 2.7, circa 2175. < 1253617267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -rf / < 1253617272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl need to eat < 1253617274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rootfs: No. < 1253617274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1253617767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, 1600x1200 @ 15" is 133 PPI, which is rather worryingly dense. < 1253617950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "dense" joke begging to be made there. < 1253618039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why the term ppi rather than dpi? < 1253618047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one is more common < 1253618141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pixels" is more descriptive than "dots", though. < 1253618214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DPI has some vague print-related connotations. < 1253618221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dots on a paper and all. < 1253618334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenMoko screen is 282 PPI, that's pretty intdense. (Intensely dense, you grok?) < 1253618438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh read it as "points" not "pixels" < 1253618447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1253618478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as opposed to floatdense? < 1253618544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would be too dense. < 1253618601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, signed or unsigned denseness? < 1253618653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to interpret a negative pixel density value. < 1253618669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1253618737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if unicode as special symbols for the outlined R. As in R meaning real numbers < 1253618747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if it had < 1253618755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Z_+ too < 1253618802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Well, not with the +. < 1253618837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least ℕ, ℙ, ℚ, ℝ and ℤ. < 1253618881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also similarly double-struck pi and gamma (both small and capital), and double-struck italic D, d, e, i, j. < 1253618884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\mathbb{Z}_{+} < 1253618917 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ℤ₊ < 1253618923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a subscript and superscript +. < 1253618936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nice. Looks like a blur at this size though < 1253618945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I'm really close to display < 1253619009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a double-struck H, ℍ. < 1253619030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and ℂ, of course. < 1253619108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the H one for? < 1253619116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quaternions, at least. < 1253619124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, never used them < 1253619195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite sure what ℙ would commonly be used for; the others (ℕ, ℤ, ℚ, ℝ and ℂ) are those well-known sets. < 1253619225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And D, d, e, i, j? < 1253619226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I know of them of course < 1253619271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: e is often the Neper e, and i, j both are used for the imaginary unit. < 1253619284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And D, d for differential. < 1253619287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course, but double-struck? < 1253619294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j for imaginary unit? < 1253619296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, double-struck and italic. < 1253619297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253619311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Electric engineers seem to have a habit for using j. < 1253619332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen those double-struck, but if you say so. < 1253619336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any reason except to cause confusion? < 1253619363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, same < 1253619363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think Mathematica uses the double-struck e. < 1253619370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh ok < 1253619379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Mathematica uses them, but I always just thought it was on crack. :-P < 1253619392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For i as well, at least.) < 1253619405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I haven't seen them anywhere else either. :p < 1253619433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's to avoid confusion with i(t), electrical current. < 1253619442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, what Deewiant said. < 1253619453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1253619457 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although why they can't write I(t) is beyond me. < 1253619475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, could be confused with 1? < 1253619477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on font < 1253619499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use 'j' in MATLAB because I like 'i' as a loop variable. < 1253619500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, though I think that's lame. :-P < 1253619504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, until I learned about abs(), the 1 I wrote were just straight lines < 1253619511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:s < 1253619514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something) < 1253619545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always written them with that serif at the top < 1253619578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes more time < 1253619599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's that convention re the casedness. < 1253619613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All of these symbols are expressed using capital letters, except in cases where a quantity (especially voltage or current) is described in terms of a brief period of time (called an "instantaneous" value). For example, the voltage of a battery, which is stable over a long period of time, will be symbolized with a capital letter "E," while the voltage peak of a lightning strike at the very instant it hits a power line would most likely be symbolized with a < 1253619613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lower-case letter "e" (or lower-case "v") to designate that value as being at a single moment in time. This same lower-case convention holds true for current as well, the lower-case letter "i" representing current at some instant in time. Most direct-current (DC) measurements, however, being stable over time, will be symbolized with capital letters. " < 1253619614 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have something legible than fast < 1253619620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl for a few hours. course begins soon < 1253619623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, class < 1253619624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1253619628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bbl < 1253619641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right. < 1253619667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might abuse the differential syntax and call it dI(t), then. < 1253619688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the rate of change of I, though, not the instantaneous value of it. < 1253619702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least that's what it'd look like. < 1253619709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that'd be dI/dt :-P < 1253619765 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, in all seriousness I'd probably call it all I(t) by default regardless of whether it's a peak or not. < 1253619783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably, but it's a bit too late now. < 1253619801 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, as usual. < 1253619888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Python uses j too? < 1253619902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagnumber ::= (floatnumber | intpart) ("j" | "J") < 1253619910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently it does, then. < 1253620046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in C99 #defines 'I' for it. < 1253620158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More exactly, I expands either to _Imaginary_I or _Complex_I, depending on whether the first one is defined or not; it's optional, unlike _Complex_I. (Both are macros that expand to "a such-and-such constant expression".) < 1253620197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my case "I" -> "_Complex_I" -> "(__extension__ 1.0iF)". < 1253620352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, ℙ is "of course" the set of prime numbers. < 1253620803 0 :jix!n=jix@95.33.79.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253621193 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253621298 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253621627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, why the term ppi rather than dpi? < 1253621628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pixels. < 1253621762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, 133 might be just a bit too much. < 1253621822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I like my pixels, but with bitmaps and stuff being so common, something not too far to the-dpi-that-96-is-from-a-chair-looking-at-a-monitor-remapped-to-being-closer-due-to-being-a-notebook is best. < 1253621849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LinuxCon 2009 Linux creator Linus Torvalds says the open source kernel has become "bloated and huge," with no midriff-slimming diet plan in sight." < 1253621851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- El Reg < 1253621952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :""Okay, so the summary of this is that you expect that 12 per cent to be back to where it should be next year, and you expect someone else to come up with a plan to do it," joked Bottomley. "That's open source."" < 1253622041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1253622071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, the T60p seems like the bset notebook ever. < 1253622096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think I want me one of those. Looks like they were super-expensive when they came out, though; hope that's improved. < 1253622109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*best < 1253622173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although there's still that pesky driver problem, it having essentially the same card as this machine. < 1253622211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radeon/ati is so fucking ridiculously slow, new fglrx (the only version working with this X11 version) doesn't support it, and radeonhd doesn't even work < 1253622224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because the X1600 isn't a Radeon HD < 1253622238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no; it's supposedly supported, but it doesn't work. < 1253622239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1253622251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The situation here is pretty awful so that's worrying. < 1253622555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radeonhd has never worked for me; isn't it pretty experimental still. < 1253622590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I tried it just because jeez radeon is crap. < 1253622605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be perfectly happy if fglrx hadn't fucking dropped support for this popular circa-2006 card. < 1253622904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also the issue of where the hell am I gonna get this...) < 1253623669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably learn Vala and hack on that GNOME IRC client. < 1253623681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could elaborate on the esoteric spreadsheet idea, which is easier. < 1253623920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Running Mobile Mark 2005, the T60p managed an impressive five hours 20 minutes of battery life, compared to three hours 41 minutes on the Acer. DVD playback was also good with a time of four hours 20 minutes - enough time to watch a Lord of the Rings special edition if you wished." < 1253623955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's say +1.5hr ultrabay = 6h50m and 5h50m < 1253624049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes. response time on the flexview is 30ms < 1253626238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, apparently after Lucid Lynx Ubuntu's switching to GNOME 3. < 1253626472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have you become twisted hacks?" - El Reg commnt < 1253626474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*comment < 1253626873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like the Mystic Meerkat 10.10 name suggestion. < 1253626937 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253626938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Umm, don't you read Linus flamebait and reddit comments? We know what 10.10 will be called < 1253626942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Masturbating Monkey < 1253627044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Image results for 'masturbating monkey'" -- in this particular instance, I'm not sure I appreciate Google's desire to be helpful. < 1253627062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950 < 1253627062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1253627081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm sec < 1253627102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1253627109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6s1p7/linus_called_openbsd_developers_what/ < 1253627220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You call your penis 'Verizon calculator?'" < 1253627311 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://etc.firefly.nu/css/quine.html <-- :D < 1253627323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: beautiful < 1253627327 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1253627338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://browserbookapp.sourceforge.net/topaz/ ;; holy fuck! Someone has basically *exactly* the same ideas as me for computing. < 1253627349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delicious. < 1253627555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.coinflation.com/about.html -- "How would you use [the word coinflation] in a sentence? -- My wife uses the word in a sentence all the time, 'Quit working on your stupid coinflation website and let's go out for Chinese food.'" < 1253627581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253627867 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253627874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253627905 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've come up with some Snusp-related stuff, and I'd like to put it online, and I'm not sure how to go about it < 1253627923 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've come up with about 5 extensions to the language < 1253627940 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1253627948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/ < 1253627953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a new page, link to SNUSP, go wild < 1253627955 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a way to specify inside a snusp program what set of features to use < 1253627963 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks < 1253627965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that matter? < 1253627973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it'd be easier to have an interpreter switch < 1253627978 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering whether to make a new page or add the the SNUSP one < 1253627990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new one < 1253628022 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people might want lots of language features, others might want to restrict what the language can do < 1253628098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think small :) < 1253628113 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, you can have numeric literals, but some people might prefer to use plusses and loops to get their numbers because the instructions set is minimalistic that way < 1253628233 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1253628604 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253629684 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-33-22.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253631327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I mean, I like my pixels, but with bitmaps and stuff being so common, something not too far to the-dpi-that-96-is-from-a-chair-looking-at-a-monitor-remapped-to-being-closer-due-to-being-a-notebook is best. <-- there are svg icon sets and such iirc < 1253631337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but think about the web < 1253631344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gnome uses SVG icons pretty much everywhere) < 1253631397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1253631406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok that explains why they look so smooth < 1253631410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, 133 PPI is quite a lot. < 1253631414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think KDE 4 does too. < 1253631419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1253631422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was like that when they were pngs too, I think. Maybe. < 1253631429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.svg icons are clearly The Right Thing, though. < 1253631440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like the less smooth look of classical bitmap based icon sets < 1253631444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less gradients < 1253631458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more natural looking sometimes < 1253631475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pixel art looks cute at first, but I find that looking at such icons I just see the jagged edges and highly-contrasted borders and miss the icon. < 1253631495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But fwiw, the Tango icon standards (which is obeyed pretty wildly Gnomeways) pretty much say "Don't make it shiny, stupid!". < 1253631503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 3 is really, terribly bad at that < 1253631509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything shines and is cartoony < 1253631532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I should probably learn Vala and hack on that GNOME IRC client. <-- Vala? < 1253631557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Vala is sort of like C#, made minimalist and cleaned up, and made to work with GObject. < 1253631561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it's GObject the language. < 1253631571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yikes. response time on the flexview is 30ms <-- sounds high. What is this flexview? < 1253631583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., write native-code GNOME software without extra dependencies or a runtime, and free yourself from the awful GObject C calls. < 1253631595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Flexview is the IPS (because it has a wide viewing angle). < 1253631608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newer ThinkPad displays are like 16ms and some older ones 25ms. < 1253631611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're all quite slow. < 1253631614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253631622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nothing you usually notice < 1253631635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Games. < 1253631660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, thinkpads aren't really for gamers I'd say < 1253631661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30ms is 33Hz, if I'm calculating that right. < 1253631687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doesn't matter what the target market is; the T60p has a decent graphics card, an excellent CPU and you can bash a load of RAM in there. < 1253631716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and IPS? < 1253631718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253631722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's optional. < 1253631728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The graphics card is the pro version, tuned for CAD etc. < 1253631742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mobile workstation" (except it's thin, light and has good battery life) < 1253631746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, with the Flexview I'm capped to 33fps, which is ridiculous. < 1253631747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pixel art looks cute at first, but I find that looking at such icons I just see the jagged edges and highly-contrasted borders and miss the icon. <-- only if upscaled. After all svg will be rendered to such pixels too < 1253631759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, svg generally antialiases < 1253631768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More recent ThinkPads can do 66fps, which is hunky dory. < 1253631771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing prevents antialias in pixel icons < 1253631775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is often applied even < 1253631778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly lesser-looking models can manage 40fps, which is fine. < 1253631786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I really like the less smooth look of classical bitmap based icon sets" < 1253631787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less smooth < 1253631790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was responding to that < 1253631800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, latency doesn't come out as FPS does it? < 1253631805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm not sure I can accept 33fps, even if it should work quite well outside. < 1253631810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, latency could be high FPS, just delayed a bit < 1253631811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1 second / foo ms = fps < 1253631825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Response time = how long a pixel takes to change from colour one to colour two. < 1253631828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like bandwidth vs. latency < 1253631834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not, you're talking crap. < 1253631835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about it. < 1253631836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm true < 1253631843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there is latency on top of that too < 1253631849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, processing time for gpu < 1253631854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant. < 1253631857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically < 1253631866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electrons are pretty fast, y'know. < 1253631881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah and cable length is far from enough for it to matter < 1253631887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I finished reading the Ubuntu Software Store article. Great UI. < 1253631899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ha! Spoken like someone who has never used a Lisp Machine. < 1253631907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, 33 fps will still look smooth for video and such won't it? < 1253631910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, those were so noisy we started getting cable latency just to save our ears from certain death! < 1253631917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yes; movies are 24fps. < 1253631918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all PAL has some pretty low number iirc < 1253631927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really fast window moving might blur a bit. < 1253631933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Ha! Spoken like someone who has never used a Lisp Machine. ? < 1253631937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTSC is 29.99997 or somethin. < 1253631940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something < 1253631943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: re cable length latency < 1253631943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253631945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253631955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, for games it's pushing i. < 1253631957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1253631963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really game, but... < 1253631973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of irritating. < 1253631989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how long cable would you need for that effect? < 1253632009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm. Very, very long. < 1253632016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, we're talking electrons here, man. < 1253632087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah but that seems insane < 1253632097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be several hundred meters at least right? < 1253632103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way more. < 1253632115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok that is silly for ear protection < 1253632161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never actually hear them if you keep them under your desk, but that's because your ears are immediately irrevocably damaged. < 1253632217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I mean, something like two rooms away with thick walls should be enough < 1253632226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm joking, jesus christ. < 1253632233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh ok < 1253632235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1253632238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...>_< < 1253632491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott's First Principle of Software Development: Naming is not only the most important part of a software project (see Knuth), but it is also the hardest. < 1253632539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, very true < 1253632553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Elliott's Twenty-Third Principle of Software Development: You do NOT want separate document and tool windows. Don't believe me? One word: GIMP.) < 1253632558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My principles are terribly specific. < 1253632655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Glade. < 1253632682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if they've managed to make a GUI designer that doesn't suck! < 1253632989 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1253633043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? :( < 1253633063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would require a toolkit that doesn't suck < 1253633070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is physically impossible < 1253633074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be pedantic about it, the electrons aren't really moving all that fast, just the signals. < 1253633086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i don't think gtk sucks *massively* < 1253633092 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1253633093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, glade at least isn't much to do with gtk programming, I'd say < 1253633096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still sucks < 1253633099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the obvious stuff like signals, I presume < 1253633102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, everything sucks < 1253633105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a useless metric < 1253633128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things don't suck < 1253633133 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hair dryers, for instance < 1253633134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likd < 1253633138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like < 1253633138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hur hur < 1253633193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hair dryers, for instance <-- they do when they are on too high heat :P < 1253633211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean like that < 1253633211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1253633219 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1253633221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as a matter of fact they do, at the other end) < 1253633235 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies!!1! < 1253633749 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253633756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION explodes < 1253633836 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION explodes if ehird didn't < 1253633928 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90e3f@gateway/web/freenode/x-fegszyuszbijydlo JOIN :#esoteric < 1253635084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know that macbook portable that had two dints where only one was needed for the trackball? < 1253635087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can move it to either side < 1253635090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm serious < 1253635310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I change a setting and suddenly Compiz is running all smooth. < 1253635362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1253635371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about both < 1253635374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what setting < 1253635390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"about both"? < 1253635430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "moving mouse", "changing setting" < 1253635442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, in the macintosh portable < 1253635443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think < 1253635444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1253635445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1253635446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1253635451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the two dents next to screen < 1253635456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said why two dents, one is enough for the trackball < 1253635486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know < 1253635488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253635494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I went heh at first < 1253635506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I decided to go heh at the changing setting in compiz < 1253635508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1253635512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was < 1253635514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"about both, what setting" < 1253635528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, compiz thought my monitor was 50 Hz, it's 60 < 1253635532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, enabled Sync to VBlank < 1253635538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no the left side is "hahaha" and the right is "ahahah" < 1253635604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253635623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, forget it < 1253635849 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253636225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file foo < 1253636225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo: Linux rev 1.0 ext2 filesystem data, UUID=3275a8a0-7d52-4ab0-b58d-d799e9b0bf3c < 1253636229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested filesystems~! < 1253636421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun to set up an md5sum on it and watch it change < 1253636441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggested filesystem feature: directories are just filesystem files < 1253636770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In that release to come in a year, that is when Canonical will begin selling select software from the Ubuntu Software Store." < 1253636771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1253636772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT < 1253636773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIT < 1253636991 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-164.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253637010 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey kidlings < 1253637024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kidlings < 1253637045 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253637055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kidPINGGGGGGGGGGGGS < 1253637065 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pings ehird < 1253637075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm underage. < 1253637082 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1253637915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UI design sure ain't easy < 1253639178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should make it a kde app, so i can drop all pretenses of usability, simplicity and design :) < 1253640185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "In that release to come in a year, that is when Canonical will begin selling select software from the Ubuntu Software Store." <-- sounds like I should plan changing distro < 1253640207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. The distro will still be FOSS. < 1253640218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1253640219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably disableable too. But it IS really obnoxious. < 1253640241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd think they'd just ask Shuttleworth for another couple million. < 1253640245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could argue that one shouldn't support that sort of obnoxious behaviour < 1253640263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about when shuttleworth dies in some years < 1253640263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1253640295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean in roughly 39 years? < 1253640299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... not too worried about that. < 1253640309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, inheritance. Also, I'm sure they'll come up with a business model by then. < 1253640316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they probably won't even exist then. < 1253640319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I don't know how old he is, plus there could be an accident or something < 1253640325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's 36. < 1253640329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253640336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :car crash? < 1253640343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's too rich to have a car crash :-P < 1253640385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok then, private jet crash? < 1253640387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaceship crash, maybe. :p < 1253640392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or that yeah :P < 1253640406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rich people have a protective buffer of money around them at all times. < 1253640408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's magic! < 1253640443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can actually program, which is cool. < 1253640452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you'd think him a bit too... I don't know, rich. < 1253640497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, the Mark Shuttleworth wikipedia bio page uses the {{Infobox Astronaut ...}} box. < 1253640527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253640536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, no human has ever been born in outer space. < 1253640555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The citizenship fight there would be fun < 1253640575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name shuttleworth... what with the space shuttles and everything it made me wonder if his name has any connection to it < 1253640583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read that just as "no human has ever been in outer space", had a "what, ehird's one of the moon landing deniers?" moment there. < 1253640583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. :P < 1253640591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. Also the ISS. < 1253640597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also everything NASA has ever done ever. < 1253640598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253640642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't it be similar to being born on international water while on a cruise or something < 1253640651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but much cooler. < 1253640666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was born in international waters" ==> "your parents are boring sailor fags" < 1253640672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was born in space" ==> "SPACE!" < 1253640691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He lived in Smuts Hall, where he was involved in the installation of the first residential Internet connections at the university." <-- hah. sv:smuts is en:dirt so that looked really strange < 1253640710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smurf Hall. < 1253640716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "I was born in international waters" ==> "your parents are boring sailor fags" <-- is "in" really the right preposition? < 1253640728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be, just sounds strange to me < 1253640730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Water birth, clearly. < 1253640734 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ErroneousDonk < 1253640749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CorrectKond < 1253640759 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ErroneousDonk: We must fight to the death. < 1253640789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popular culture reference? < 1253640805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only possible explanation I can think of < 1253640855 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CorrectKond: what < 1253640884 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ErroneousDonk: you are the erroneous donk of... uh, kruut. < 1253640893 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the correct kond of tuurk. < 1253640898 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1253640899 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we cannot possibly exist in the same universe. < 1253640917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253640920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1253640937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses bad super hero comic from the "strange period" < 1253640951 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bludgeons AnMaster with antimatter < 1253640959 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bludgeons ErroneousDonk with a club < 1253641037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the spam directory. Subject: Don't read < 1253641108 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Absolutely no free member enhancers here, nosiree. We do have viagra though." < 1253641156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CorrectKond, it was just junk inside, like very often. it seems they put junk in the normal part and then the real spam in the html part < 1253641156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since I disable html mails < 1253641278 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies < 1253641309 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION revives ErroneousDonk < 1253641316 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bludgeons ErroneousDonk some more, for good measure < 1253641324 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should do it < 1253641397 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253641621 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253641710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUN MATHS QUIZ! < 1253641722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that a course starts on 28 September 2009 and lasts a minimum of 72 months and a maximum of 48 months: < 1253641728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) in which month does it end? < 1253641732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) how many different helpdesks did I have to contact before getting the correct answer? < 1253641750 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the range is obviously ... what's inclusive and exclusive? < 1253641751 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ or ( < 1253641764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CorrectKond: the range is obviously incorrect < 1253641765 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget. < 1253641770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's inclusive, but it doesn't really matter < 1253641776 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, I forget the symbol < 1253641784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ is inclusive, ( is exclusive < 1253641802 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I'm tool azy < 1253641806 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to be ridiculous, but < 1253641809 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was going < 1253641811 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too lazy < 1253641833 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, we know that a >= 72 and a <= 48 < 1253641835 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O shi-- < 1253641853 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to invent a new number system. < 1253641857 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can the surreals do that? < 1253641865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(extra fun: at least one of the answers I was given was "January 2015") < 1253641902 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: go ping yourself < 1253641925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CorrectKond: what's with the nick change, btw? < 1253641932 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see logs. < 1253641939 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who? < 1253641940 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1253641985 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1253641990 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kond isn't Donk reversed < 1253642039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is about as complete as cygwin. < 1253642055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misread that as * ehird is about as complete as cygwin < 1253642065 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin-complete < 1253642096 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253642106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wow IE7 is bad, especially at rendering Slashdot < 1253642116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and firewalls that block port 6667 outbound are annoying < 1253642128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use Mibbit to get on IRC from that connection < 1253642134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now, I can't get onto freenode at all from it < 1253642146 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't freenode block mibbit? < 1253642148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253642150 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In favour of their own web client < 1253642155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't a web client < 1253642158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Java IRC client < 1253642162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens to be hosted on a website < 1253642170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the only thing it has to do with the web is that's how you access it < 1253642213 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All right < 1253642245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, going back to logs, apt-get install has one advantage: it's a pretty quick way of installing repository packages from the command line when you already know which one you want < 1253642251 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In favour of their IRC client hosted on their own servers, with a serverside backend and web frontend < 1253642253 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better? < 1253642285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253642309 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253642315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't any serverside at all < 1253642323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from the usual IRC servers < 1253642329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an IRC client < 1253642333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hosted on a website < 1253642339 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the freenode one? < 1253642365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253642369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an IRC client written in Java < 1253642379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose only advantage over any other is that it doesn't involve installing an IRC client < 1253642380 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://webchat.freenode.net/ <-- Doesn't look like Java to me < 1253642390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I found a different one < 1253642394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on freenode.net < 1253642395 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks very much like XHR to me < 1253642397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really confusing... < 1253642398 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1253642422 0 :ais523_freenodew!i=93bcfe7c@gateway/web/freenode/x-hizpnwabbuxizuzf JOIN :#esoteric < 1253642433 0 :ais523_freenodew!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, this one doesn't feel like Java at all, you're right < 1253642436 0 :ais523_freenodew!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to use it next time < 1253642437 0 :ais523_freenodew!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253642462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Lucid Lynx the actual name, btw? < 1253642466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just a placeholder? < 1253642511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : suggested filesystem feature: directories are just filesystem files < 1253642513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually had that idea < 1253642516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while back < 1253642523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for things like zipfiles < 1253642531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use them as directories, and you got their contents < 1253642549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really old versions of DOS used to work like that, but without the usability < 1253642589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CorrectKond: I've read the logs, and I /still/ don't get the reason for the nicks... < 1253643091 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-12-246.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253643482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253643498 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253643659 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-34-65.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253643693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So, we know that a >= 72 and a <= 48 < 1253643693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : O shi-- < 1253643698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could define that kind of < 1253643711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in module a number larger than 73 < 1253643719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo* < 1253643733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a crazy definition yeah < 1253643883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you think about that definiton? < 1253643896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greater-than doesn't really work with modulo < 1253643925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true. But greater than 72, less than 48 in modulo 100 would be somewhere between 72 and 100 or 0 and 42 < 1253643927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253643930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48* < 1253643938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1253643956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, if you use the modular definition, modulo 12 is the sensible one < 1253643959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's months in a year < 1253643966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd conclude that the course would end in September < 1253643974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why the January 2015 option came as such a surprise < 1253643974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253643983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah indeed < 1253644018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wasn't aware when it started though < 1253644047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway how can a course not be exactly a specific length? < 1253644092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a specific length, just the computers disagree on what that is < 1253644097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what it is < 1253644103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "max/min"? < 1253644122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in actual fact, both are supposed to be 48; the 72 was an error < 1253644128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although one that I've spent 2 days now trying to correct < 1253644132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, h < 1253644134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah* < 1253644192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but why did you give min 72, max 48, not the other way around? < 1253644208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it shows some computer system had a range for possible values < 1253644208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because that's the way round it was on the computer < 1253644218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which caused all sorts of hilarious side-effects < 1253644219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a course isn't a specific length? < 1253644228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can vary < 1253644234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it seems that computer program allows for variable-length courses < 1253644258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253645345 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253646962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Lucid Lynx is the actual name, yes. < 1253647109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very recently announced; last weekend, I think. < 1253647595 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-223.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253647920 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1253650485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253650500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any fullfledged debugger with stepping and inspecting variables for python? < 1253650511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1253650784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a graphical python debugger screenshot in someone's door at work, as a "in vacation" note, but I don't know what the debugger was. < 1253650822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "on vacation", but anyway. < 1253651052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253651147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok found a few in gentoo portage < 1253651198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(need it on gentoo since I can't reproduce the issue easily elsewhere due to the software setup I need to debug being highly non-trivial to relocate) < 1253651716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pudb this looks mad < 1253651741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, if it does the job < 1253651901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253652579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great the thing crashes because the server sends < 1253652590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I hope you HTML5 nuts are happy < 1253652612 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What thing? < 1253652728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, pywikipediabot on a wiki < 1253652752 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, oki < 1253652757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not on a wikimedia operated one) < 1253652795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very happy with that debugger, but it did the job < 1253652797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/rpdb2.py:308: DeprecationWarning: the sets module is deprecated < 1253652797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : import sets < 1253652797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/rpdb2.py:313: DeprecationWarning: The popen2 module is deprecated. Use the subprocess module. < 1253652797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : import popen2 < 1253652797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/wx-2.8-gtk2-unicode/wx/_core.py:14448: UserWarning: wxPython/wxWidgets release number mismatch < 1253652800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : warnings.warn("wxPython/wxWidgets release number mismatch") < 1253652802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what the debugger prints when it starts < 1253652804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253652818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the term "bitrot" comes to mind < 1253654716 0 :froggyman!n=chatzill@pool-72-69-88-109.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253655665 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253657384 0 :froggyman!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253658421 0 :CorrectKond!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253658898 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253658989 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-164.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253660195 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253660264 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253660341 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253661084 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253661089 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-065-155.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253661380 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1253661494 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253661507 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found a Brainf*** interpreter in Befunge, but I can't get it to work < 1253661515 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seems mtve also found it recently according to the comments) < 1253661522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/09/two-dimensional_pathology_befu.php < 1253661603 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1253662249 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrr < 1253662257 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot figure the damn thing out! < 1253662309 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: What is numeric range for interpretter you are using? < 1253662428 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, does it have to be a special bignum interpreter? < 1253662464 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It says so. < 1253662470 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I see now < 1253662488 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the exact same one from mtve's page, apparently < 1253662501 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: AFAIK, Befunge-93 is TC only with bignums. Befunge-98 can be made to be TC without them. < 1253662531 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO ESPERANTO IN THIS CHANNEL < 1253662572 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1253662787 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, not mtve's page but the discussion page on Esolang Wiki, I think (NathanC's work, IIRC) < 1253662809 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¡CHIUKANALE NE ESPERANTACHU! < 1253662921 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be interesting to write befunge-98 BF interpretter (no fingerprints, all numbers bounded) < 1253662950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think fungot's ^bf uses any fingerprints, really. < 1253662951 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ' yes, archchancellor?" said carrot. < 1253662971 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ErroneousDonk: I haven't :-P < 1253662984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean befunge-98 implemented in brainfuck? It's not immediately obvious from that. < 1253663009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would make more sense that way around. < 1253663016 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most BF progs don't need more than 32-bits, do they? so it should still be possible for a modest pseudo-BF interpreter in B93, right?? < 1253663026 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BF implemented in Befunge-98, no fingerprints, number range bounded. < 1253663049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ^bf has that, except it has a tape length limit too, but it would be trivial to make it unlimited. < 1253663056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And number range is bounded to [0, 255]. < 1253663246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a standalone version of the Underload interpreter -- or to be exact, I wrote the Underload interpreter as a standalone program and then only later integrated it in fungot -- but the brainfuck one is only available as a part of http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 -- lines ~350-372 turn a brainfuck program into a bytecode of sorts, and lines 294-306 execute that. < 1253663246 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ridcully glared for scum, even clapping his hands over his face. < 1253663297 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it" < 1253663394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be exact about it, the Befunge-98 funge-space isn't infinite either, because vector coordinates are limited to the cell size, so there's only 2^128 locations available in total. But you should be able to do a real infinite tape out of the stack-stack operations, I think we talked about this at some point. < 1253663420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless you happen to have a bignum Befunge-98.) < 1253663511 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And bignum Befunge-93 would be TC anyway... < 1253663603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But with the stack-stack "u" a real tape is trivial even in a non-bignum Funge-98. < 1253663777 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The classic "Befunge-93 interpreter in Befunge-93" is nice, too; http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/befbef.bf < 1253663790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly the playfield for the interpreted code is a bit smaller. < 1253663933 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve's is better (smaller) < 1253663937 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only six lines, IIRC < 1253663954 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.frox25.no-ip.org/~mtve/code/eso/bef/bef_bef/ < 1253663990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's quite a lot of whitespace in the classic befbef. < 1253664103 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, here's a link to Brainf*** in "bignum" Befunge (with instructions, examples, etc.) < 1253664113 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Befunge < 1253664147 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly that I got confused on the exact same program elsewhere (ah, memory is the first to go ...) < 1253664204 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ErroneousDonk: Kial vi ne diskutas kun ni? ;-)) < 1253664270 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Donk? ah, and I kept reading it as "Dork", meh < 1253664403 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigbef seems to be really really slow on quine.b < 1253664409 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or maybe it hung, I can't tell) < 1253664450 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm letting it sit for a while just to see :-) < 1253664687 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects the worst < 1253664854 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this quine expects some wraparound?? < 1253664983 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(canceled) < 1253664984 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1253665030 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1253665031 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1253665108 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253665515 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253669550 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669550 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669550 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669551 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669551 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669551 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669553 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669553 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669553 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669553 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669554 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669555 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669555 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669557 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669557 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669557 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669558 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253669601 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-065-155.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-205.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :fizzie!i=fis@83.150.124.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :lifthrasiir!i=1CBOWieh@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :zbrown!n=suifur@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@67.228.37.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@69.128.47.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253669601 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@130.233.228.12 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253672627 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253673933 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253678547 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253678870 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253679489 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-124-89.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253680105 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253680467 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people! < 1253680493 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1253680546 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here! < 1253680555 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need someone who knows bash and regexes. < 1253680599 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sorta does < 1253680663 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to rename a file based on a regex < 1253680703 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd pipe find into grep < 1253680715 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you don't want recursive, just use a glob < 1253680739 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: rename < 1253680749 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) < 1253680762 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Perl and thus cheating < 1253680791 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253680794 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1253680817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to see if ruby has perms actually < 1253680817 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for source in list; do mv $source `echo $source | sed s/regex/replacement/`; done < 1253680817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably doesnt but < 1253680825 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on < 1253680843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for source in list; do mv $source ${source/regex/replacement};done < 1253681693 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey! < 1253681695 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby has perms < 1253681696 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253681697 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :php didnt < 1253681699 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1253685455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253690164 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253692799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253692800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253693738 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253693953 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253694360 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-223.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253694728 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-12-246.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253694946 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-33-22.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253696642 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253697726 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253702242 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253704753 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253704793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it isn't a web client < 1253704794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's a Java IRC client < 1253704794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that happens to be hosted on a < 1253704796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1253704797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they made a new one < 1253704807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, going back to logs, apt-get install has one advantage: it's a pretty quick way of installing repository packages from the command line when you already know which one you want < 1253704812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the command line < 1253704814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when not in one < 1253704857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is Lucid Lynx the actual name, btw? < 1253704858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or just a placeholder? < 1253704858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real < 1253704863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CorrectKond: I've read the logs, and I /still/ don't get the reason for the nicks... < 1253704869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just reacted to lament < 1253704937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pudb this looks mad < 1253704940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude use the built-in debugger < 1253704951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh great the thing crashes because the server sends < 1253704951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: I hope you HTML5 nuts are happy < 1253704956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program is broken -- it's the website's fault! < 1253704960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- AnMaster < 1253705102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:39:22 that's Perl and thus cheating < 1253705108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:40:43 for source in list; do mv $source ${source/regex/replacement};done < 1253705111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ people < 1253705128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename 's/regex/replacement/' $list < 1253705136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waaah, it's perl < 1253705165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That depends on which rename you have. < 1253705189 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the "rename from to file..." one. < 1253705199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use the perl one < 1253705274 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying that that command doesn't work out-of-the-box on many systems. < 1253705339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253705378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but the point is to do it in a quick oneliner, I assume, not a script < 1253705384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case for portability you wouldn't be using ${//}. < 1253705446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quick oneliner is not so quick when you have to dig up the package containing that version of rename :-P < 1253705450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you mean "perl"? < 1253705511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: On Arch, it's "prename" < 1253705530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Ubuntu, it's OH WAIT IT COMES WITH THAT. < 1253705530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253705533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been on several other systems too where Perl certainly exists, but that rename does not, at least under that name. < 1253705671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dude use the built-in debugger <-- oh? what module? < 1253705677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man python < 1253705687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait < 1253705689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is some modile < 1253705690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :module < 1253705692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdb i think < 1253705700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python -m pdb poop.py < 1253705711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/library/pdb.html manual < 1253705713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20:40:43 for source in list; do mv $source ${source/regex/replacement};done <-- what is so wrong with that? it is what I usually do in such cases < 1253705744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's identical to `rename "s/regex/replacement" $list` and 70 times longer just because coppro said it doesn't count because it's perl < 1253705752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1253705769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I don't have that rename you mentioned either < 1253705784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hm is the ratio really 70:1? < 1253705816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. :P < 1253705820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's default on Ubuntu, at least. < 1253705831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an official part of perl, at least. < 1253705831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah but not most other distros IME < 1253705842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, install it then; it's good. :P < 1253705880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, happen to know the website of this version of rename so I can find the right one? < 1253705887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, http://perl.org/ < 1253705898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of perl. < 1253705901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also as Deewiant said, " A quick oneliner is not so quick when you have to dig up the package containing that version of rename :-P" < 1253705919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True Slack is putting in the work to be lazier in future. < 1253705927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find it in the perl package at least < 1253705931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, perl regexps kinda beat bash regexps. < 1253705936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Presumably your distro mangles packages. < 1253705949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, define mangles < 1253705958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extracts programs, puts them in other places, etc. < 1253705959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Arch pkgbuild gets it from Debian's Perl package < 1253705970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the cause of many Ruby installation woes, because Debian splits up near-essential parts. < 1253705972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I believe it is Debian here doing the mangling, by adding such a thing. < 1253706003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC too. < 1253706007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Uh, no. I can prove it: < 1253706013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah that is my conclusion too looking around < 1253706017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RENAME(1) Perl Programmers Reference Guide RENAME(1) < 1253706020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUTHOR < 1253706020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Larry Wall < 1253706022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl v5.10.0 2009-06-26 RENAME(1) < 1253706025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: Part of perl. < 1253706057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, a person can only distribute his code in a single package. Maintaining two programs is forbidden by law < 1253706080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, generally people don't say "perl v5.10.0" in a package that isn't that, and put it in the Perl Programmers Reference Guide. < 1253706082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST SAYIN' < 1253706201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's not in perl-5.10.1.tar.gz from perl.org. < 1253706209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a ./configure option. < 1253706212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed I checked that too just now < 1253706215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some auxillary perl.org package, at least. < 1253706232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " Or some auxillary perl.org package, at least." <-- That is, not part of main perl package. < 1253706246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still part of perl then, just not core perl. < 1253706258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of CPAN is "part of Perl" now? < 1253706259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=larry+wall+rename OK, I take it back. < 1253706266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA: < 1253706268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, of course. < 1253706270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"from Larry Wall's original script eg/rename from the perl source" < 1253706277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: CPAN is not a perl.org perl package. < 1253706279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, but it's not there any more. < 1253706286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares < 1253706292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it was part of anything it was part of perl < 1253706293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you were claiming it was < 1253706293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Neither is Perl, as it's downloaded from cpan.org. < 1253706317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Similarly, sourceforge packages aren't from sourceforge.net. < 1253706323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, perl.org download link takes me to ftp://ftp.cpan.org/pub/CPAN/src/5.0/ < 1253706325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're from **Nondeterminism error < 1253706344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cpan.org isn't a mirror of perl.org though < 1253706354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: They are from dl.sourceforge.net, actually. < 1253706364 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm done with this nitpicking < 1253706366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then mirrored < 1253706367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Off -> < 1253706381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nitpicking is like pedanticism, except annoying and not interesting. < 1253706406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't you say that distros *NOT* including the perl rename with the perl package were mangling? < 1253706415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1253706419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we shut the fuck up about this? < 1253706423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah it is the opposite < 1253706430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. < 1253706442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you have some sort of deep-seated urge to prove every trivial thing I say wrong and come out on top, triumphant, saying "Ha! You were WRONG!", but it really just comes out as seeming insecure. < 1253706453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just you were trying to attack gentoo on the grounds that it didn't include rename with the perl package itself < 1253706504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was launching a vicious attack on Gentoo and you know what, fuck off, you really are insecure. < 1253706522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how you came to that conclusion < 1253707213 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253707898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash in Epiphany is so buggy... but the browser is wonderful otherwise. < 1253708384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiz's window placement sucks. Wonder if Metacity's does too. < 1253708810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just puts windows in successive corners. < 1253708817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is super-retarded, as nothing ever has center focus. < 1253708860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, metacity seems to do a bit better than that here. But it seems to depend on window size too < 1253708874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, small windows seem to be centered. < 1253708912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant that windows covering more than half the screen are always placed somewhat center, offset a bit towards upper left corner < 1253708944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not doing that with Epiphany windows here. < 1253708953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try metacity. < 1253708955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if two such big ones are opened after each other they seem to end up so that the title bar of the previous one still is visible < 1253708966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure didn't think window placement would be the thing I'd miss from OS X... < 1253708975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried kate and the help browser after each other < 1253708990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, with metacity it cascades new windows from top-left. < 1253709000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, not cool, the other thing; retarded. < 1253709023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not exactly that here. But it could be because I have other windows open in various parts of the screen already < 1253709028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but better than Compiz's "Smart" placement, so I'll tell Compiz to cascade. < 1253709040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a note to write a good placement module sometime < 1253709059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to know what algorithm you prefer < 1253709073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly agree metacity isn't perfect < 1253709073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just get a small-resolution laptop so I can tell it to maximize everything. :) < 1253709082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What OS X does is great, what Windows does is fine. < 1253709093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cascading makes me do more moving of windows, but doesn't annoy me. < 1253709098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternating corners makes me rage. < 1253709149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think someone implanted a virus in Ubuntu that makes you want to contribute to the projects. < 1253709164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I used that disk usage analyser app in gnome/ubuntu. Quite interesting "not quite pie-chart, but something circular still" it generates. Two most visual things: $HOME/.VirtualBox and $HOME/icc < 1253709169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253709169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certainly tempted to, but I'm scared of the useless bug trackers... < 1253709172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/visual/visible/ < 1253709182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, when analysing / < 1253709184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, that thing's... interesting. < 1253709198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took me a few seconds of hovering to work it out, so I'd say non-ideal. < 1253709205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, icc is quite bloated. 2.6 GB for ICC! < 1253709212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow. < 1253709229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mind you, that include docs, but the docs isn't the main part of it < 1253709240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: System -> Administration -> Authorisations has AppArmor stuff, btw. < 1253709244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or SELinux, who knows. < 1253709260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much there, actually; a few scheduling options and low-level permissions, but nothing frontend. < 1253709266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I looked at that, couldn't find any docs on how it worked and decided it was best to leave it for now thus < 1253709268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not wanting to mess things up badly < 1253709277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks quite scary, yes. < 1253709293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, OpenOffice takes a good chunk of my disk (and also sucks). < 1253709297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not really, just it doesn't tell you very well what the various alternatives do < 1253709301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I won't remove it, because I want ubtunu-desktop. < 1253709304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ubuntu < 1253709310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep, but that is still way less than icc < 1253709311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also apt archives. < 1253709360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the single largest subdir to icc is ipp/em64t/lib at 1.2 GB (ipp itself is 1.6 GB) < 1253709361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else (that isn't big like /usr) is quite small; /usr/share is 901MiB but consists of a lot of quite small stuff. < 1253709393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it might be MB, actually. < 1253709395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr is 5.6 GB and home 22.0 GB < 1253709408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the main chunk in home is virtualbox harddrives < 1253709410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GNOME uses base-2 filesystem sizes, though, because it says 60.4 GB instead of 64 GB. < 1253709423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope that changes sometime... < 1253709423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(roughly 13.3 GB) < 1253709426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only using 3.3GiB, anyway. < 1253709444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Try "View as Treemap Chart". You too can be a modern artist! < 1253709454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also more helpful than the other view, I think. < 1253709466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's hard to hover over /usr; just the borders, really. < 1253709517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, /srv is 1003.9 MB (so yeah 1024 or it would be listed as 1 GB instead), why? because following some ubuntu guide on 32-bit chroot put it under /srv/chroot, couldn't think of a good reason to change that. < 1253709569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/srv is one of those things the FHS guys invented because they're stupid and nobody uses. :P < 1253709571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think Gregor's colour matcher was used for that... In the "generate non-matching" mode that is < 1253709590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well alternative was /var/chroot, would be trivial to move though < 1253709596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just looked up; "Data for services provided by this system" < 1253709601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's the best place for a chroot. < 1253709607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1253709611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/srv) < 1253709727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether /-commands are really needed in an IRC client in this day and age < 1253709739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like /j is pointless if you have a Ctrl+J < 1253709747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me is a bit tricky though < 1253709752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um, /j #foo is faster? < 1253709757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+J #foo < 1253709759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least equally fast < 1253709760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/j #foo < 1253709762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1253709767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok then, old habits die hard < 1253709782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the former is better because you can reuse whatever GUI widget or whatever you have, and it also means you don't have to escape / all the time at the start of lines. < 1253709786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which ate my /srv message before.) < 1253709800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can be inconsistent and only block some /s that you handle, but that's even more confusing when it drops a message.) < 1253709831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm trying to make an IRC client that follows the GNOME HIG to a T; I'm pretty sure old IRC habits are going to be brutally murdered. < 1253709841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Human Interface Guidelines) < 1253709865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a T? < 1253709881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/to-a-t.html < 1253709885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idiom. < 1253709934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway what about stuff like /me and /whois and so on. Plus what about when you need to enter a command there is no keybinding for. Ctrl-O for oper? Ctrl-g for gline or Ctrl-g for kline? And so on. < 1253709942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is gzline/zline too on some ircds < 1253709951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and syntax differs for those generally < 1253709960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /me is a bit tricky though < 1253709970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes missed that line < 1253709989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, /whois would probably be done by double clicking the user or using the menu. :P < 1253710006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would that do /whois nick or /whois nick nick < 1253710007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could do a shortcut then by, say, Alt+foo W, where foo is the shortcut key of the menu with whois in it. < 1253710010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter picks up idle time too < 1253710020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The latter has more info, and it'd be displayed as a dialog box, so the latter. < 1253710069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, the Bitch-X users will kill me. :) < 1253710139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edge case time! (but this actually happened to me once) What if there are network problems (DDoS say) but you still need to gline a spambot, a nick nick whois would take way longer and if servers are about to split might not work at all, but with nick one time you can still get it and act on it, of course the gline won't be applied for some time (in the case of a split, not until the servers reconnect < 1253710140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : after) < 1253710157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, connect with telnet? :P < 1253710164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm NOT zzo < 1253710174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USER AnMaster AnMaster AnMaster AnMaster < 1253710177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NICK AnMaster < 1253710180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PASS poop < 1253710183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLINEFUCKYEAH < 1253710184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUIT : < 1253710204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno how I'll represent the multitude of possible actions on a user, anyway. < 1253710208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will always need a way to send arbritary commands to the server. Even if you for some odd reason decide "lets make this client unusable to opers" < 1253710224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, of course there'll be a raw. < 1253710237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think Alt+blah W name is any less usable than /whois name < 1253710255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah and it differs between ircds. Anyway it is simple, let user customise menus with options if the defaults doesn't fit their need. Even xchat has that iirc < 1253710271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The menus will contain everything. < 1253710316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, I'm not looking to attract opers; I'm looking to attract the 90% of IRC users who just talk and do 90% of the operations on users, channels etc. < 1253710332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Chat will always be there. < 1253710348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, impossible because you can do wildcard glines. Like say: /gline *.idiot.ru 2d4h :reason blah blah < 1253710353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, syntax will differ between ircds < 1253710361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so will names for it < 1253710362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Menus open dialog boxes, you know < 1253710373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not filing every possible nickname input under a submenu :) < 1253710376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, but I mean stuff like parameter position and format may differ < 1253710387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the raw. Write a plugin. < 1253710417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm pretty sure plugins reacting to text will be useful for some things, so no reason not to let them add menu items.) < 1253710433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like removing a gline? /gline - or maybe /ungline or even /gline < 1253710437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seen all three < 1253710439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See ^ < 1253710443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep < 1253710498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's really not much more I can say other than that's not my target market. < 1253710551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right. But even so I can't see how you can remove / really. There is /me yes but sure you could make "/me" be the only special one I guess. < 1253710580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll give it a keyboard shortcut for "Send" vs "Send as action". < 1253710585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however that will be irritating if you typo /mee /em or such. Instead of getting something like "no such command" you would get that on irc channel < 1253710590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah that could work < 1253710591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is Send, is Send as action. < 1253710595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1253710611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quicker to type, to boot. I know existing clients let you assign such a key. < 1253710640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, I'll see how it ends up. I'm just not going to think "well, other clients have this, so I'd better do it that way". < 1253710724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will you represent different servers? I found that the tree view mode of xchat works fairly well < 1253710745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, XChat-GNOME uses it too and it seems sane. < 1253710782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'll probably use "Network" instead of "Server", in accordance with "Create a Match Between Your Application and the Real World" (which is a bad title, but basically comes down to "use a term that's just as valid but not jargon when possible"). < 1253710799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Network" sounds like IRC jargon, but not to someone who doesn't know of its IRC usage: it's a network of people.) < 1253710812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note "just as valid"; it's not dumbing down.) < 1253710844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Alternative reading: "I'm going to be a Mazi and remove every button!") < 1253710844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know how may irc channels you are on, but I can assure you that the tree view scales well even to my levels. A bit of scrolling yeah (less after I patched to code to reduce distance between lines) but way better than tabs and such < 1253710846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Nazi < 1253710870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The GNOME tree view has simple searching, too, so a lot of that scrolling would be eliminated. < 1253710888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am currently in two channels; the most channels I'm ever actually looking at regularly is about 4, but that's mostly by choice. < 1253710889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course network is valid. But I guess you aren't the kind of guy to connect to more than one server on a network at the same time ever ;) < 1253710896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People... do that? < 1253710903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite possibly something only opers do. < 1253710904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, to avoid netsplits? < 1253710926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for opers, when you try to pick up things after a bad netsplit :P < 1253710950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why irssi is the only client that detects netsplits and condenses them to "Netsplit between servers, people quit: a, b, c, ...". < 1253710952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, when the server went down due to hardware issues and you are relinking stuff < 1253710956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying to have text interrupted by a netsplit. < 1253710962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder why irssi is the only client that detects netsplits and condenses them to "Netsplit between servers, people quit: a, b, c, ...". <-- seen other ones do it iirc < 1253710991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example I think there was some xchat script to do it, and quite possible there is a mirc script for it < 1253711037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, as long as you notice that the guy you were just talking to isn't in the channel any more ;P < 1253711047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You'll notice that when tab completion fails. :P < 1253711086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone highlights quite as much as I do. Unless they spent their first year on irc in busy channels like ##linux and #gentoo < 1253711096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it is more or less required to keep track < 1253711106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1253711119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw, about detecting netsplits. What would you match on? < 1253711152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this question isn't as silly as it sounds) < 1253711165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is a good reason I ask)( < 1253711172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/($// < 1253711199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and that is valid sed iirc, for ( to act special you would need to escape it. Yeah sed is a bit weird sometimes) < 1253711382 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I use sed -r < 1253711612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1253711636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's posix regexps < 1253711644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, just (server server) as quit message. < 1253711660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah hm right < 1253711683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where first server doesn't end with a :? < 1253711697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that is: ... a ":"? < 1253711701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so. < 1253711728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi also handles "Netsplit over, joins: ..." which is impressive. < 1253711728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while freenode puts quotes around quit reasons from /quit, some servers do it like: Quit: < 1253711735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have seen yet other ones < 1253711750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: [Quit] < 1253711753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what not < 1253711774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and some servers hide netsplits (like freenode does) but unlike freenode instead shows it as: *.net *.split < 1253711790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite a common replacement for when hiding < 1253711821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy IRC servers. < 1253711866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it is, I guess it detects a burst join (people could quit that server, and reconnect to another. Quite likely even if the server they were on split because it itself had network troubles, rather than due to some hub having issues, or just a route messup to part of the internet) < 1253711891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi is a solid piece of software, even if I dislike the interface. < 1253711901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I'm not going to write an irssi frontend; that'd just be a world of pain.) < 1253711953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it would, since it does have some internal flaws too. Mostly related to networks using less traditionalist server software. And being idiot about the prefix list in 005 < 1253711967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*idiotic < 1253711980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253712002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone remember irssi2? It still exists, I think. tl;dr it's like xmms2 for irssi; i.e. totally unlike v1, server/client architecture galore, overengineered, and will never be usable. < 1253712025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a long time (don't know if it is still like this) irssi allowed exactly voice, half-op, op and one additional. Except almost all of the networks with additional prefixes has exactly two additional ones < 1253712030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have* < 1253712046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was kind of irritating as it meant it messed up showing one of them < 1253712064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, second system syndrome? < 1253712068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: very. < 1253712070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I never heard of irssi2 before < 1253712084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/o/o,/ < 1253712187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That GNOME vs KDE article with the vomiting-drug-using-laptop-slamming GNOME developers and the European-with-quiet-classical-music-in-a-glass-building-then-random-killing KDE developers seems to have reversed. < 1253712225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE's all ooh, shiny, moar bloat these days and GNOME is all serious and usability-researching and everything. < 1253712297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, it was like that article described quite some time ago though. < 1253712311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GNOME 2.0 and KDE 3.0 was when it flipped. < 1253712325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, some point midway during KDE 3 life time I'd say < 1253712348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/KDE_3.0.jpg ;; Wow, I hope this wasn't t he default theme. < 1253712359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad OS X ripoff window borders, awful green windows... < 1253712365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure it wasn't < 1253712376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What is it with Linuxers and imitating OS X?) < 1253712392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/KDE-3.1-es-ES.png ;; looks like KDE 3.1 was when it started happening < 1253712402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no clue, I think it is mostly with "screenshotting linux users" rather than linux users in general < 1253712408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1253712422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Kde_3_3_screengrab.png ;; Wow, it's like you took this screenshot. < 1253712435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 2 theme on KDE 3 + Swedish + uberhinted text. < 1253712444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'd move it more towards KDE 3.2 for the first hints of it, and KDE 3.4 well on the way. KDE 3.5 definitely had it bad yeah < 1253712479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh looks nice apart from the huge text shadow on desktop. And that isn't antialiased at all < 1253712495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough. But ow, I just noticed that shadow when you pointed it out. < 1253712498 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253712502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More of a smudge than a shadow. < 1253712509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I wouldn't used the gradient for either desktop or the kicker < 1253712536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, GNOME 2.28 is going to move in a decidedly un-candylike direction: by default, no icons will be displayed in menus. < 1253712553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm that is actually a step backwards in usability < 1253712558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, actually: < 1253712567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because icons are useful for quickly finding what you want when you know what it is < 1253712576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# < 1253712577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By default, many but not all push buttons and menu items have an icon as well as text. As well as making the interface more cluttered, this slows people down by misleading them into thinking that they can decipher a transient controls icon faster than they can read its text, which is rarely if ever true." < 1253712580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Matthew Paul Thomas < 1253712580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I want lyx, I can visually quickly find the lyx icon in the meny < 1253712582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :menu* < 1253712590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need very big icons to be able to make snap decisions like that. < 1253712604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: True, for application menus it might be better to have icons. < 1253712611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well for buttons I agree. But I meant for application menu only < 1253712619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not buttons, menu items like Zoom In and the like. < 1253712625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, also OK/Cancel buttons. < 1253712647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe an icon you use so often that your brain looks for the icon should be in a panel, though. < 1253712656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, toolbar buttons with icons is useful though < 1253712673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes but that would fill the panel < 1253712674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the toolbar icons are good because they're big and making icons for them isn't tedious as they're the most common options. < 1253712691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're considering moving the icon text to the right so that text only appears for some icons and to save vertical space, but I think that's misguided. < 1253712698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate ff, kate, thunderbird, konsole and some more in the panel < 1253712700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the icons are useful for locating, but not discovering. < 1253712708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lyx I maybe use once every second week or so? < 1253712709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You hate all those applications you use? Gee. < 1253712714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes more, sometimes less < 1253712715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyuk hyuk < 1253712722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I hate ff, kate, thunderbird, konsole and some more in the panel < 1253712733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm I dislike ff but for uni website I need it. < 1253712739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have konq there < 1253712744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read what you said. < 1253712745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I hate ff, kate, thunderbird, konsole and some more in the panel < 1253712752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh hah < 1253712754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have* < 1253712760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course) < 1253712764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253712774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re browsers: Did I mention I like Epiphany?) < 1253712781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes you did < 1253712783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253712831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there are lots of app that I don't use quite enough to have them in panel (and having too many makes it harder to find a specific one in it too, more icons to scan through) < 1253712843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still use often enough to locate with icon < 1253712853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icons are probably best for subconscious honing. < 1253712860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1253712878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works quite well for stuff like save/open/cut/copy/paste as well < 1253712885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, that's the thing. < 1253712907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since it is the same icons for those all across gnome (and KDE too if you set it to that) < 1253712908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't use menus for cut/copy/paste unless you haven't heard of them yet, and save/open are in the toolbar. < 1253712924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Menus are for (a) not so common operations and (b) discovering operations. < 1253712931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about zoom then? key combo is less standard for that < 1253712942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For both of these, icons slow you down: it seems like you should be able to understand this small image more quickly than reading the text. < 1253712952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in fact, that's generally not true (we're good at reading). < 1253712954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253712968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how well organised the menu is < 1253712970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If zooming is a common operation it'll be in the toolbar. If not, well, the icon won't be standard if the shortcut isn't. < 1253712976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus what about the special case of "settings/preferences"? < 1253712986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's always in Edit at the bottom in GNOME. < 1253713016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not so in KDE apps. Rather some menu at the end. < 1253713031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last one before help menu usuaully < 1253713032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and the icons won't be the same in KDE apps either, so it slows you down trying to recognize them. < 1253713040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case no-icon menus actually speed up discovering where it is in this program. < 1253713050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253713057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Two other reasons it was done: cleaner look, quicker development (making a good icon for many new operations is hard and tedious). < 1253713060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and tedious < 1253713093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally another reason it's good is that right now, the start of the menu name is aligned with the icon, and so I have to move my eyes to read the text, which is annoying. < 1253713130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about firefox then? There it helps because a) locations vary between platforms b) icons don't (at least between linux/windows iirc, don't remember for the os x case) < 1253713143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure they do vary for Linux. < 1253713149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use the GNOME icons when you have GNOME. < 1253713161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems like firefox use their own. At least for stuff like "add-ons" and such < 1253713166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but not Preferences. < 1253713167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"settings" < 1253713173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm sure? < 1253713174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly Preferences moves in Firefox, not much else. < 1253713180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1253713190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was same icon. but ok < 1253713201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it may be an option to enable GNOMEification. < 1253713215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ubufox might do it (Ubuntu's Firefox changes). < 1253713237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they are same on ubuntu and gentoo for me. < 1253713248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a blue gear on a gray gear < 1253713253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of* < 1253713262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not here. < 1253713265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue gear slightly smaller < 1253713278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that ubuntu extension to firefox is enabled < 1253713282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help -> About Mozilla Firefox; "Mozilla Firefox for Ubuntu" "canonical - 1.0" here. < 1253713297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same hm < 1253713305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, amusing about your addons point; the addons entry has no icon. < 1253713324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even disabling Ubuntu's extension, it still has the GNOME icon. < 1253713332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What GNOME theme are you using? < 1253713334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Human here. < 1253713335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does here. A green puzzle "bit" (or whatever the term is) < 1253713347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec. checking < 1253713359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearlooks < 1253713362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what Firefox version? 3.0.14 here. < 1253713365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well then. < 1253713367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1253713368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's using the Clearlooks icon set. < 1253713370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOWEVER < 1253713372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check a GNOME app. It'll be the same. < 1253713380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using default firefox theme I just rememberd < 1253713383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that may be what does it < 1253713406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. The Clearlooks Preferences icon (and in Firefox too) is a bunch of... uh... < 1253713409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The knobs on the up/down things you can move. < 1253713413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, not twist. < 1253713426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Clearlooks is still in-your-face. I preferred the old-style Clearlooks... < 1253713444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, but that isn't what firefox uses at all here. So yeah I guess due to firefox theme < 1253713457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it was the best of those available by default < 1253713458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://clearlooks.sourceforge.net/screenshots/clearlooks-0.6.png ;; old Clearlooks, more sane and less glaring < 1253713464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some tuning it is quite okish < 1253713471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far from good, too round in forms < 1253713475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You might like Mist; it's very flat. < 1253713482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Install gnome-themes or gnome-themes-extra; I forget. < 1253713506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you go to the Clearlooks details, you can change it to ClearlooksClassic, which has nicer controls. < 1253713512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do want some slight non-flatness to easier see what is buttons and such. Just I dislike the strongly rounded corners < 1253713516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colours still need changing to not glare, though. < 1253713519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer more angular ones < 1253713521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it is outdented slightly. < 1253713528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253713529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don'tw ant to install anything, try Glider. < 1253713542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't want < 1253713564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glider hm? < 1253713570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway installing gnome-themes atm < 1253713578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe Glider is in that package. < 1253713601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I like Human, probably because blue is so overdone. < 1253713603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A green theme would be nice too. < 1253713622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, technically you can change Human's colour, I think.) < 1253713633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can you save your current one? One thing that annoys me with gnome preferences is that there is just "close" no easy "cancel" button < 1253713650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Save As..." < 1253713657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Custom themes don't modify. < 1253713664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for some reason it is grayed out... < 1253713665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The button is "Customise...", not change. < 1253713668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I changed stuff < 1253713674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're making a custom version, for yourself; it does not change the original theme. < 1253713680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( I am now sporting a green Human. It is ugly.) < 1253713683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(I < 1253713692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can't save as a theme you didn't change... < 1253713696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd just be a duplicate. < 1253713712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did however. So sounds like a bug. Opening customise and then just closing it enabled the button < 1253713717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said: customising does not change the original; that isn't what "customise" means. < 1253713728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uhh, no, you're just misguided as to what you pressed, I think. < 1253713735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your selection was Custom, right? < 1253713738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never claimed that it would change the original < 1253713741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, well of course there's no save as button. < 1253713747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it was < 1253713752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug. < 1253713830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mist goes a bit too far I think, still possibly better than clearlooks, though the default icon theme with mist is quite horrible < 1253713852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's the Clearlooks icon theme... < 1253713874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it is blue theme instead of gray? < 1253713876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess you were using Custom, not Clearlooks. :P < 1253713881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Clearlooks' icons are not gray. < 1253713885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even looking at the clearlooks entry < 1253713895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exact same icons. < 1253713905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can prove it, too: customise Mist, select Icons. < 1253713909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, huh. < 1253713913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1253713926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of Mist's icons are the same as to Clearlooks', though. < 1253713930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as Clearlooks' < 1253713937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're definitely blue. < 1253713956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at the main theme page there is preview. Compare mist icon theme (blue folder in preview) to the clearlooks, which is more gray < 1253713965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue tinted gray yes < 1253714007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Clearlooks icon theme is simply the official GNOME theme. < 1253714015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm aware of that. < 1253714019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, folders are green. < 1253714023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But toolbar icons are *blue*. < 1253714031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? Green where? < 1253714049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gray with a slight hint of blue or maybe display sucks < 1253714119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/KiYub.png < 1253714122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grayish green. < 1253714124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dull green, whatever. < 1253714149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that looks blue to you, I am *so* getting the IPS screen. < 1253714159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on what monitor I bring it up on < 1253714175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is more greenish on desktop than on laptop < 1253714176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is blue? < 1253714179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1253714198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is quite a neutral grey on laptop, the blue tint is very very slight < 1253714333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and with the colours that icon has on the desktop I couldn't live with it. On the laptop it turns out quite acceptable though < 1253714354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of ironic since assuming you are still on that mac the greenish tint is probably more correct < 1253714369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. It also looks green on the shitty 2006 TN LCD. < 1253714383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes even mid grey indistinguishable from white. < 1253714397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wow, either your laptop just has really shitty viewing angles, or its display is uber-terrible. < 1253714408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, fading on hover over the OSD notifications works now. < 1253714410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weirdo. < 1253714412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimp colour picker places it at around #bfc0ac < 1253714421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course; enabling Normal effects to turn on Compiz must enable that too. < 1253714425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is more of a slightly yellow/green tint < 1253714457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no yellow at all. < 1253714469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, a tiny bit. < 1253714499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r=191, g=192, b=172 < 1253714512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wound quite a lot more yellow than green as far as I can work out < 1253714545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in fact it is more yellow-green on desktop than green I'd say < 1253714570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approaching beige I think < 1253714584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dark beige < 1253714597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Experts predict that the penultimate catastrophe will occur at approximately 7:15 p.m. Thursday night, when the social networking tool Twitter will be used to communicate a series of ideas so banal they will instantaneously negate the three centuries of the Renaissance." < 1253714599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nadir_of_western_civilization_to?utm_source=a-section < 1253714611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also featured: The best ending line to an Onion article ever (but don't skip there, it won't make any sense.)) < 1253714990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparing the colour palette in gimp shown when this colour is selected shows that desktop has more vibrant colours and also differs fastly. There is even a slight hint of bands on the laptop... Makes me suspect some X setting is wrong... < 1253715020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Lenovo are just making shittier laptops as time goes on. :P < 1253715023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the palette is definitely yellowish < 1253715044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where would I find out colour depth without a xorg.conf... < 1253715056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of what? < 1253715061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The display in physical, or settings? < 1253715068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost certainly set to 24 or 32 bit; ask GNOME. < 1253715083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask gnome where? < 1253715087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh; System > Preferences -> Display doesn't actually have the colour depth. < 1253715089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd. < 1253715091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Odd < 1253715097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, apparently my display is "Laptop 20". < 1253715100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how it came to that conclusion. < 1253715112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mobile cpu? mobile gpu? < 1253715126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, both. < 1253715131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using internal connection, not external one (at least that is what hardware claims I bet < 1253715132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1253715148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems fairly obvious < 1253715167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. < 1253715246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed xpdyinfo claims 24 bit depth for both desktop and laptop < 1253715247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253715262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xdpyinfo; that was hard to parse... < 1253715266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It'll just be uncalibrated. < 1253715279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But calibration is a bitch IME; I'm no good at telling whether those lines blend in with the background.) < 1253715292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah probably. Now to find out how to calibrate under ubuntu < 1253715318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add/Remove shows "DisplayCalibrator". < 1253715323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just searched for "calibrate" in All. < 1253715329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DisplayCalibrator is a GNUstep application to calibrate the gamma of your display < 1253715332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, forget that. < 1253715333 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253715334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use xgamma, then. < 1253715349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since apparently it's a frontend to that. Although there's more to calibrati- I'll just google. < 1253715359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, xgamma is just a command line too < 1253715363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tool* < 1253715370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and indeed there is more to calibration < 1253715377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[edit] A list of Linux color-managed applications" < 1253715383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly graphics applications. < 1253715390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr: Linux ain't gonna calibrate no colours consistently. < 1253715409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even to basic manual calibration without trying to figure it out fully < 1253715418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ads.linuxfoundation.org/www/delivery/ai.php?filename=training_ad_v1.jpg&contenttype=jpeg ;; proposal to ban the linux foundation from advertising. < 1253715427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I used an icc profile generated back on windows with gentoo iirc. < 1253715430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND WE DON'T MEAN POPCORN HURRRR GRUNGY LETTERS < 1253715473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1253715511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Who even thinks of "popcorn" when they think kernel? At least anyone who'd ever see that.) < 1253715567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has popcorn got to do with the word kernel? < 1253715590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :| < 1253715594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popcorn kernels. < 1253715604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.answers.com/kernel < 1253715624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, kgamma seems like better than nothing < 1253715649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, K-naming. Anyone remember when every GNOME app had a g in it (and preferably a gn) < 1253715651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1253715655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was ridiculous. < 1253715758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems it mainly needs reducing blue a bit to begin with. < 1253715792 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253715796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would need a bit more blue for dark grays though < 1253715799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Anybody mind describing that? I'm blind." -- Linux Hater's Blog comment < 1253715815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's a good way to make the comments section feel awkward. Nobody wants to troll right after a blind guy. < 1253715994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Debian's switched to eglibc yet. < 1253716001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still far from good really < 1253716001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, have you joined 600 channels yet? < 1253716009 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253716037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, been over it at times, atm below it, 593 < 1253716049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you realise you never look at 90% of those? < 1253716080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually I do. Do you think I'm only chatting in one channel at a time? < 1253716096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're chatting in 593 channels at a time? < 1253716100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a percentage that is low activity, like #opers < 1253716114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course not, but often 3 or 4 at once < 1253716120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not looking at 90% is still looking at 59 channels, which is of course more than you look at. < 1253716122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which 3 or 4 changes < 1253716141 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually < 1253716142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you realise that there are commands called /join and /part for looking at different sets of channels at different times...? < 1253716145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is just completely nonsense < 1253716152 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many channels are you on at freenode? < 1253716164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: He's in the extended maximum, I believe. < 1253716184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, hm let me check. Guess I'll pipe the relevant lines from /whois into wc < 1253716229 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:30:03] AnMaster is away: sleeping < 1253716232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :76 if one is to believe wc but I think that is a bit more < 1253716242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, typoed command I believe < 1253716244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Hey, when AnMaster says "night" he doesn't leave either. Give the guy a break, he's just fucking with us. < 1253716416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is slightly less off colours, however the icons look worse. I guess I'll have to retune them to more neutral gray < 1253716420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grey* < 1253716436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and same for desktop bg colour and some other stuff < 1253716572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh look, ATI released a new Radeon series. < 1253716580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to AMD, the new Radeon HD 5870 offers 544 double-precision GFLOPS of processing power." < 1253716588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so getting four. < 1253716596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VROOM VROOM < 1253716657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now use those in that helmer 3 < 1253716696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and if every cards have 2 TFLOPS, this is 432 TFLOPS" < 1253716703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's using the GTX 295, then. < 1253716707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is just the fastest single GPU card. < 1253716720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the GTX 295 doesn't break 2 TFLOPS, I think. < 1253716734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253716741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Nvidia Tesla S870 is 2074 GFLOPS. < 1253716750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1253716751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtx 295 has more then I guess < 1253716755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a "GPU Computing Server"; i.e. a single thing. < 1253716775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTX 295 gets 1788 GFLOPS. < 1253716787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so using the one you mentioned would be worse < 1253716794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why then sound so excited at it < 1253716798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GTX 295 has TWO GPUs < 1253716801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is ONE GPU. < 1253716803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1253716812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets wait for the same but two < 1253716819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll see a 5870 X2 sometime, probably. < 1253716827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not x4 while we are at it < 1253716839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because people won't pay $2,000 for a gaming card. < 1253716874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If humans tasted like bacon I would kill and eat them so I see no harm." --reddit < 1253716903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why are we still going along this design, wouldn't rethinking it and going along similar lines that those raytracers in FPGAs did be better. With the budget of nvidia on that rather than the (relative to nvidia) small research budget... < 1253716935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because FPGAs are slow. < 1253716946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that raytracer's FPGA was just a scheduler. < 1253716958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual tracing was done on an 8-core machine. < 1253716970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on which one you are thinking about < 1253716988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caustic's. < 1253716995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not that one I'm considering < 1253717005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember the name < 1253717010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for not being telepathic :P < 1253717070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/~woop/rpu/RPU_SIGGRAPH05.pdf < 1253717097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.6MB? Holy huge PDF batman. < 1253717099 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-139-39.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253717118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pictures in it. Example renderings < 1253717123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 11 pages < 1253717129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in total for the pdf) < 1253717143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish Poppler let you use the host's font settings; I can't really read this badly-kerned, grey-antialiased text. < 1253717149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and zooming those rendering doesn't look pixelated < 1253717162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, and Evince still can't copy text from columns individually (not that I wanted to copy anything). < 1253717167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Did I say pixelated? < 1253717168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1253717175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not talking about font < 1253717183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "why those images are so huge" < 1253717184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the renderings. < 1253717216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they are pixelated. < 1253717216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No antialiasing there. < 1253717238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um I mean as in you can zoom them and they still look ok due to being stored at high dpi due to being down scaled screenshots but with all the image data still left in there < 1253717249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I zoomed my screen. < 1253717256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may take a second or two for poppler to re-render the pic < 1253717260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after you zoom < 1253717266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my experience < 1253717272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, they look good at 30)%. < 1253717274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*300%. < 1253717321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, images in pdf are basically "insert this bitmap here, and make it fit in these dimensions". Thus they can end up like that, high dpi, good zoomable. But damn big pdf < 1253717358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the technical drawings are mostly vector graphics < 1253718046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what do you think of the RPU? < 1253718054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't really read it. < 1253718065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very interesting < 1253718127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue with the prototype was limited memory bandwidth it seems. They list some suggestions for how to improve that part at the end. < 1253718138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it has a great potential < 1253718369 0 :ais523!i=93bc6b76@gateway/web/freenode/x-auncaqdqfsseyqwv JOIN :#esoteric < 1253718372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1253718376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253718385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION arghs at Ubuntu < 1253718390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh why? < 1253718407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the suggested fix for the multiple beeps at shutdown problem was "$ echo "blacklist pcspkr" | sudo tee -a /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf" < 1253718414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253718417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably in a startup or shutdown script somewhere < 1253718426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253718428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, or just in general? < 1253718430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words; don't fix the cause, just tell the kernel to fix the symptoms < 1253718433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf preserved? < 1253718435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1253718440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, maybe < 1253718445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's an okay temporary fix, though < 1253718451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253718452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may use it < 1253718456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I dislike the speaker altogether < 1253718461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still ridiculous < 1253718473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Monkey Island II theme was the epitome of PC speaker usage < 1253718484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything afterwards is folly. < 1253718528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not just trace what process make the relevant system call < 1253718532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then fix it < 1253718536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because it's the kernel? < 1253718538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume. < 1253718551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, I know what process it is < 1253718557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about 9 or 10 instances of shutdown(8) < 1253718565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can still trace it, but unlikely considering where it happens < 1253718568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real problem is, wtf is shutdown running that many times? < 1253718569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh < 1253718585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so far the commenters to the bug seem to have ignored that issue < 1253718589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that explains the multiple shut down messages I see. But why is shutdown beeping at all? < 1253718598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because you reported the noise as the problem, presumably < 1253718602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it does that... < 1253718613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it does on all machines with a PC speaker I've used < 1253718624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure it can be turned off somewhere. < 1253718653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re Monkey Island II theme on a PC speaker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DLoSAb1-bc) < 1253718667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shutdown(8) always beeps < 1253718675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it has an option not to < 1253718683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't, it should probably be added < 1253718686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably an xml config file these days < 1253718703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't seem so. Still silent shutdowns would seem like a high priority feature for many notebook users < 1253718723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -q, --quiet reduce output to errors only < 1253718728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell shuts down a notebook? < 1253718729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still beeps! < 1253718733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S3 sleep, dude. < 1253718741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I do, when I update the kernel < 1253718752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sometimes when I have no processes running, I shut down rather than hibernate < 1253718755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it feels cleaner < 1253718768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when you update the kernel, it shuts down and beeps, okay < 1253718768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1253718776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you upgrade the kernel in situations where silence is appreciated? < 1253718783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends. Sometimes I do because I have HPET issues. Known regression. Ubuntu ppl doing nothing about it. < 1253718785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I sure am taking notes! As soon as this kernel upgrade finishes." < 1253718788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, most commonly I do it in a shared computer lab < 1253718792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where other people are working < 1253718801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that short beep will kill them :P < 1253718807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's annoying, not fatal < 1253718835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symptoms: after long uptime (doesn't matter if it has been at S3 sleep in between) the system is going slower and slower unless there are interrupts like from moving the pointer around all the time. < 1253718852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: affects what? < 1253718857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make sure to avoid any such hardware < 1253718894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, intel mobile chipsets with HPET + dual core cpu < 1253718913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... will that apply to all Core 2 hardware? < 1253718917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With an Intel mobo.) < 1253718928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, WTF? There's no way that wasn't fixed in a day, that's a huge population of users. < 1253718971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but you can workaround it with setting a different clock source than hpet, however that causes other problems, like lots of wakeups because the counter wraps very often or plain just not working < 1253718980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it takes quite a bit for the effect to start showing up < 1253718991 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253718996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer lots of wakeups to sinister slowness. < 1253719001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and due to the gradual nature it takes an hour or two more before you have to reboot it < 1253719031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it starts to set in something like 4-6 hours after boot (sleep not relevant here), depending on load < 1253719031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't care, I want top performance all the time. :) < 1253719038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to set in faster if the computer runs hotter < 1253719054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4-6 hours of being off or does sleep count add to it? (If so, wtf?) < 1253719083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of being on. But sleep doesn't reset the effect as one would guess < 1253719106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh at IE8 < 1253719110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid not having an "undo close tab" < 1253719119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rely on that Firefox feature so much < 1253719119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox didn't have that for a while, I think. < 1253719123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what counts is total uptime that isn't in suspend to disk. Suspend to ram: "sometimes it seems to count, sometimes not" < 1253719125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epiphany has it. < 1253719127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very random bug this :/ < 1253719134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, at least. < 1253719136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I imagine most sane browsers do nowadays < 1253719140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, is this IE8 or IE7? < 1253719143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to tell < 1253719153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Uh, look at About. < 1253719157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1253719158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in that menu. Or the other one. < 1253719160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway it seems "intel mobile 4 series chipset" is most affected. < 1253719162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try both. < 1253719163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent versions of IE don't have a menu bar < 1253719170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Press Alt. < 1253719172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do. < 1253719174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just hidden. < 1253719179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. IE7 < 1253719181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though from reading the bug there was people that was much worse affected than me < 1253719187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's behind the little >> icon in the top-right corner of the toolbar < 1253719191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, alternative is using a kernel older than 2.6.21 iirc < 1253719191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE 7 is pretty bad < 1253719192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253719202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or using the non-precise clock and accepting the wakeups < 1253719240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[With a Linux kernel, you need the newer "rtc-cmos" hardware clock device driver rather than the original "rtc" driver.]] < 1253719247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it happen anyway? < 1253719291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, clocksource=acpi_pm seems to work for me < 1253719334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in conclusion Linux has a serious bug affecting a massive portion of users with a crippling, invisible-at-first effect and nothing is being done about it. < 1253719340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the year of the Linux desktop yet? < 1253719346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rtc interface to userspace isn't relevant as far as I could find out. Oh and pretty sure ubuntu uses the new one anyway (messing up alsa in 2.6.28 as a result, fixed in later versions) < 1253719384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not all mobile chipset users seems affected. And it was mobile chipset. So yeah year of linux desktop, but not linux laptop < 1253719437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desktops are a dying breed, though. < 1253719460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, lots of gamers will disagree with that < 1253719480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are beefy gaming weighttops, actually. < 1253719492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, it's separating into notebooks, gaming machines and workstations, I think. < 1253719517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long-term. < 1253719544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about tiny pc cases ones? Like found in computer rooms at unis and such. (lab rooms tends to have workstation style computers instead) < 1253719565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably eliminated in future as every student has a notebook anyway. < 1253719573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, we'll all regress to Athena and use thin clients! < 1253719578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Not actuall happening.) < 1253719584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually < 1253719586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, far from. Maybe 30-40% does as far as I have seen < 1253719606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'd say your university is abnormal. < 1253719606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah in long term maybe < 1253719624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, I think if you read your university's material it'll say "Get a laptop, dammit". < 1253719655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they can't really say that considering the bad wlan coverage in some of the buildings < 1253719848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway desktop keyboards tends to be nicer to type on, and monitors easier to work at. Are you predicting a future for docking station + monitor + keyboard + mouse? < 1253719854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1253719889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Surprisingly, the general population don't give a shit: they're sitting at horrible 16"-18" Acer laptops with a damn number pad and an uber-glossy 16:9 screen. < 1253719898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptops with a numpad? < 1253719902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if they are of the budget nature, a 15" without a numpad. < 1253719905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's the trend nowadays. < 1253719908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was wondering too.. < 1253719909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous < 1253719914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1253719915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, external mouse? < 1253719920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Awful trackpad. < 1253719923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is simply the current reality. < 1253719956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hoi polloi love their shitty "media" laptops, and that's enough for future dominance. Desktop machines in offices might last a while longer. < 1253719961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at uni btw it seems like dell, hp and acer are most common, a few thinkpads. plus one or two macbooks < 1253719971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But fwiw, I don't think my ThinkPad keyboard will be anything but great. < 1253719985 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( uber-glossy 16:9 screens < 1253719987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I prefer their style to the keyboards I've used. Scissor-switch is great. < 1253720002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the macs however are all configured to share everything over zeroconf. For some unknown reason < 1253720003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The student population is a bit different. < 1253720012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the "advertised on the front page, 'back to school' cheapo-Acer" from the local computer retailer: http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/87052_02.jpg -- it indeed has a numpad there. < 1253720015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, *everything*? < 1253720026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hyperbole < 1253720034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stuff like itunes control, printers and what not < 1253720035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's EXACTLY the bullshit that's so common. < 1253720051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like, with no password? < 1253720081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never decided to go that far. I only listened passively at the broadcasts < 1253720087 0 :MigoMipo!i=c1b7fd21@gateway/web/freenode/x-pihxouabzxemkqcj JOIN :#esoteric < 1253720093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Man, this current playing track title is awesome." < 1253720094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the client in ubuntu for it < 1253720142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems the 4:3 notebook is totally dead, anyway. < 1253720154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm not really happy about the forthcoming notebook dominance. < 1253720161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the macbooks all tend to be in those small group rooms (not sure of English term) at least from what I seen walking around. < 1253720173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18" 16:9 heavy uberglossies are in basically all respects inferior to desktops. < 1253720179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a Vista laptop with 1 GB (minus whatever you use for graphics) of memory. That sounds like a good configuration. < 1253720191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 3GB is an oddly popular configuration for cheapies over here < 1253720206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when pared with things like 1.7GHz processors that will be slow as shit anyway < 1253720227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. get a large enough notebook with high enough dpi < 1253720234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 17" at 130 dpi < 1253720237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be awesome < 1253720238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:9 gives a bigger screen size statistic for the cost of the screen < 1253720245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diagonal measurement isn't really a good way to measure... < 1253720246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it'd be a squintweighttop. < 1253720253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would producing a 16:9 be cheaper?? < 1253720262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because it's smaller... < 1253720267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Indeed. 16:9 is also unusable for any purposes other than movie-watching. < 1253720270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on font settings. If it was a mac it could work < 1253720277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No it couldn't? < 1253720279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What lead you to that conclusion? < 1253720287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because a 16:9 has a smaller area for the same diagonal measurement < 1253720296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macs don't even have a permanent DPI setting without using the command line, and it fucks up the GUI. < 1253720297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good dpi handling, vector icons < 1253720305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253720307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd < 1253720308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macs also don't use vector icons... < 1253720310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my usual programming setup on my 16:9 is two 80-column emacs panes side by side < 1253720317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I though mac laptops were very high dpi? < 1253720319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works quite well for that < 1253720322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and handled that well < 1253720323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Apple claims their engineers found that 100ppi is the perfect size for a screen, or something. < 1253720327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I misunderstood you < 1253720328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, 120ppi or thereabouts. < 1253720339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, so say 120 ppi then < 1253720351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how can 100 ppi be perfect *size? < 1253720355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*size* < 1253720356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280x800 for 13"; that's ordinary. 1440x900 for 15"; that's ordinary. 1920x1200 for 17"; that's common in the more expensive workstationtops. < 1253720406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so if you want a desktop you get a workstation in the future? Doesn't sound too bad except for the price < 1253720423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a desktop you should almost certainly buy a good notebook. < 1253720430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And plug in a display if you really want to. < 1253720459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on reasons for desktop. heavy 3D modelling needing FPGAs? < 1253720471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then you don't want a desktop, you want a workstation. < 1253720477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1253720487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So buy one; they're hardly going away. < 1253720499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if I want a mainframe? < 1253720503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buy one? < 1253720535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Video: Intel's four-screen laptop prototype hands-on" < 1253720538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, I was hoping for "I will buy it for your next birthday" or something ;P < 1253720544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, maybe reconsider buying that workstation. < 1253720553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Admittedly the three other screens are tiny ones above the keyboard.) < 1253720564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Windows Live's losses were bigger than their revenue last year < 1253720565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(F---- would not be in awe at headline again.) < 1253720566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating < 1253720570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than -100% profit! < 1253720578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. -100% profit! < 1253720580 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253720587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION explodes < 1253720592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish he'd stop doing that. < 1253720594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F----? < 1253720607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+++++++++++++++, F-------------, you know, eBay ratings. < 1253720658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, when I talked about the market splitting up I forgot netbooks. < 1253720676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netbooks being that abominable, ever-changing category of "computer we can build for cheap, or even not so cheap nowadays". < 1253720760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A+++++++++++++++, F-------------, you know, eBay ratings. <-- now I do < 1253720782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A++++++ EXCELLENT SELLER FAST DELIVERY WOULD BUY AGAIN" is a typical eBay feedback without exaggeration. < 1253720809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it more or less sensible than YouTube comments? < 1253720825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on average? < 1253720832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, it's definitely less varied. < 1253720840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does A and F stand for here? < 1253720863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obligatory: http://www.bash.org/?199355 < 1253720870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: US grades; well, I made up the F----- one. < 1253720870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253720876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253720878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, school grades. < 1253720880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it isn't used on there? < 1253720882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253720902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eBay users would give a glowing review of shitting on somebody's roof if the item ever got there. < 1253720910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. I worded that badly. < 1253720916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eBay users would give a glowing review of the sller shitting on their roof if the item ever got there. < 1253720972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people still use ebay then if that is the expectation? < 1253721012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1253721018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People use eBay to buy and sell things. < 1253721074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean " eBay users would give a glowing review of the sller shitting on their roof if the item ever got there." sound like most of the time the item is never even delivered ? < 1253721074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said that, did I? < 1253721074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You read an awful lot of things into messages. < 1253721122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the logic was that "reason for people to give glowing review just because the item is at some point delivered..." "Hm sounds like expectations are quite low then..." "That seems to indicate that usually things are quite bad" < 1253721141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that's not what I said at all. < 1253721152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then I suggest clarifying what you said < 1253721155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I said implies that eBay users give positive feedback much more than negative or neutral. < 1253721156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing else. < 1253721162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was perfectly clear, your brain just took it and ran with it. < 1253721203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wasn't perfectly clear. Maybe it was to you, because you know what you intended. "if the item ever got there" sounds like "usually it doesn't" < 1253721225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1253721232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is only confusing to you, you know. < 1253721303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm the only other person actively talking atm. So yeah. But that means 50% too according to that metric. < 1253721364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT AnMaster refuses to interpret that as "nobody else here would be confused by that". < 1253721403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no statistical evidence for either claim atm < 1253721450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only way that sentence could be more obnoxious was if its contents were "[citation needed]" instead. < 1253722658 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253722954 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253723003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I'm back < 1253723240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wb < 1253723281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know what might cause CentOS to pick a screen frequency output that the screen can't actually display? < 1253723298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would I know anything about centos < 1253723314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you might know enough about Linux distros in general to have an idea < 1253723315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen it over ssh on servers, and from that it is like fedora but way worse < 1253723333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what sort of thing is it selecting then? < 1253723335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer here in my new office has CentOS and Windows 7 installed < 1253723337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe wrong modeline? < 1253723357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CentOS boots, but you can't see anything on the screen because the screen can't display the video mode it selects (the frequency's too high) < 1253723359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably be auto detected if not explicitly set < 1253723363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Windows 7 only boots in safe mode < 1253723377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was it like that from the beginning?! < 1253723381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and either way, I can't log on because I don't know my username/password yet < 1253723386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's the state that I've come to the computer in < 1253723390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what happened to it before < 1253723392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1253723408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and no clue. try looking at xorg.conf from linux vt < 1253723411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1253723437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1253723442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text mode doesn't display either < 1253723447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I can't log in < 1253723464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nor change boot parameters to boot in single-user mode) < 1253723509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, text mode doesn't display? try changing the boot parameters in grub < 1253723516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1253723524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CentOS is like Fedora but way worse? What's wrong with Fedora? < 1253723531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can't really help you when you can't access anything on it < 1253723535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, CentOS is primarily a server thing, so I don't know why it's on that computer. < 1253723535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can be worse than something else without the something else being bad < 1253723541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: remote management, I imagine < 1253723543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but the way he said it... < 1253723569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think I mentioned that a few times before, even to the point of you complaining about me mentioning too often < 1253723578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I do not intend to repeat it again < 1253723586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what are you talking about? Mentioned what? < 1253723601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why fedora and RHEL sucks < 1253723629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall conducting some sort of ask-AnMaster-why-Fedora-sucks campaign; you're terribly paranoid about me. < 1253723637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, Linus uses Fedora. < 1253723643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're going to say RPM, aren't you? < 1253723669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPM is bad, but you don't really see it with yum... which is quite annoying but not exactly sucking. < 1253723687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but how misguided to think he'll say anything at all; he's protesting against my evil Fedora questioning campaign. < 1253723687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used yum < 1253723690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it compare to apt? < 1253723704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yum is fairly average. I remember having a problem with it but don't recall. < 1253723732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, yum is to rpm what apt is to dpkg, and only rpm actually sucks. < 1253723740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, centos tends to be incredibly outdated and have rather small repos too. In my experience. < 1253723744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care what dpkg is like, so I don't really care what rpm is like with yum. < 1253723753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1253723764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I like how you said to without anything about Fedora beforehand, thus your sentence seems to add on to nothing < 1253723780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I like how you said to without anything about Fedora beforehand, thus your sentence seems to add on to nothing" < 1253723782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar? < 1253723790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't parse it at least < 1253723805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1253723812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My grammar was perfectly fine. < 1253723820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather unusual, it took me about 10 seconds to parse < 1253723823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*said "to" might make it a bit clearer. < 1253723831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise I omitted the quotes. < 1253723835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the quotes it's a perfectly sundry sentence. < 1253723863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... nobody seems to be reading the Enigma forums any more < 1253723873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: you used to be really active there < 1253723884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds bad. < 1253723885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : With the quotes it's a perfectly sundry sentence. <-- yes indeed < 1253723889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses disk space and bandwidth! < 1253723900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's obviously been told to be more tight-lipped. < 1253723953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what amuses me is that a free forum host would be simply superior to the current Enigma forums (faster, much more bandwidth and database space, perhaps even easier to keep despammed) < 1253723976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and cheaper ofc < 1253724044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, Enigma itself seems to be actively developed; there are hundreds of repo changes since 2 days ago < 1253724083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hundreds? < 1253724091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds *over*developed < 1253724101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Since Enigma 0.92 the current Enigma team is focussing the development on independent, new and state of art features. Compatibility issues are out of focus." < 1253724104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"S < 1253724115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that with compatibility=platform compatibility < 1253724118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was scratching my head... < 1253724142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: many of them are things like art changes < 1253724153 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-122.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253724155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, you can't do hundreds of changes of work in two days < 1253724158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it's compatibility with past games like Esprit and Oxyd they mean < 1253724168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hundreds of changes is easy, IMO < 1253724173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they're small and scattered < 1253724182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too small... < 1253724190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like they autoconfiscated it < 1253724195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least upgraded the autoconf < 1253724199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's probably done lots of changes automatically < 1253724229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used autoconf before (nice verb there btw) < 1253724241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna have to use that one < 1253724257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "autoconfiscate" is standard, IIRC < 1253724269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't a pun on autoconf + confiscate? < 1253724271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1253724288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i do not consider < 1253724288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myself a professional player and i seriously doubt there are any 'professional' players < 1253724288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who play enigma and make money by playing enigma." --illmind, aka captain obvious < 1253724314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, looks like it's in the Jargon File: http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/A/autoconfiscate.html < 1253724327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1253724331 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-t < 1253724345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: esr likely made it up one day, then < 1253724365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably < 1253724365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/A/autobogotiphobia.html ;; he definitely made the preceding entry up < 1253724371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^ // < 1253724380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just being published there probably made more people inclined to use it < 1253724382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd check the original File, but it predates the woeful time of autoconf. < 1253724399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Automatically, but in a way that, for some reason (typically because it is too complicated, or too ugly, or perhaps even too trivial), the speaker doesn't feel like explaining to you. See magic. The C-INTERCAL compiler generates C, then automagically invokes cc(1) to produce an executable.]] < 1253724404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First thought: Hey, a C-INTERCAL shoutout. < 1253724411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second thought: Oh wait, he's fellating his own ego. < 1253724431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a stupid method of automagically < 1253724436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was much more fun making it work on DOS < 1253724443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, exec() is very magical. < 1253724445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needed info here is that DOS has a 127-character limit on command lines < 1253724452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^\[\[ /[[/ < 1253724455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in the end, I ended up with a wrapper shellscript < 1253724480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the DOS version of gcc accepts @filename.txt to specify arguments via a file rather than the command line) < 1253724498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs enigma < 1253724510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which version? < 1253724542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... what do you call something which is an alpha in terms of feature-completeness, but where the developers made efforts to package it for general usage? < 1253724553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore is sort-of like an RC, but based on an alpha rather than something you plan to release? < 1253724558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasted. < 1253724627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Intel announces 22nm chips for 2011" < 1253724996 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253725000 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253725033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253725039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253725044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253725095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253725103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253725143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mozilla has announced that it plans to bring Office 2007's Ribbon interface to Firefox" < 1253725145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so not appropriate < 1253725189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the title's just lying < 1253725194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1253725200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone drew a ribbon on Firefox as a mockup of what it would look like < 1253725203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the picture was misinterpreted < 1253725206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an idea atm < 1253725206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1253725210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not all ideas go everywhere < 1253725219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to it anyway? < 1253725261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the link, I'm just going by the comments on that reddit article < 1253725271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get the link more easily than me, therefore < 1253725280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because presumably you have the article open < 1253725287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It has no such thing. < 1253725354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253725966 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253726150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1253726164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523 < 1253726262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253726484 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up and sees a streak of over four hours of nothing but AnMaster plus four lines. < 1253726512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're ignoring ais523 too? < 1253726528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, you are ignoring ais as well as ehird I gather? < 1253726540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1253726540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out how on earth ais523 is objectionable enough to ignore. < 1253726547 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That streak ends before ais begins talking. < 1253726553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1253726557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that explains it < 1253726588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: must be the condescending elitist manner of perfection < 1253726603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 has one of those? :P < 1253726642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's _earned money_ on esoteric work dammit < 1253726655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, that's quite upsetting. < 1253726855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: steve's insurance cannot be cheap < 1253726867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true < 1253726885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine he's not very endangered inside a coffin < 1253726928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't bet on that < 1253726940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's steve after all < 1253726965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad movie idea: the stingray... is back... FOR ANOTHER BITE < 1253726966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irwin < 1253726970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summer 2011 < 1253727047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same steve. dmm's proof: their wives spell their names differently < 1253727070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you spell steve irwin differently? < 1253727076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I missing a joke.. < 1253727079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*joke... < 1253727080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wives' name < 1253727083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1253727116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terry/terri < 1253727122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1253727912 0 :ErroneousDonk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1253729034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253729231 0 :MigoMipo!i=c1b7fd21@gateway/web/freenode/x-fqypqtilzuhigluw JOIN :#esoteric < 1253730071 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253730153 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253730183 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1253730612 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253730644 0 :MigoMipo!i=c1b7fd21@gateway/web/freenode/x-apufalegbwywzwir JOIN :#esoteric < 1253730671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi impomatic < 1253730797 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-33-22.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253731285 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Ehird :-) < 1253731291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi impomatic < 1253731481 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Ehird :-) < 1253731488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack overflow < 1253731552 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointer error < 1253731587 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bus Error < 1253731627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Car error < 1253731815 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some websites give some weird errors. E.g. the fail whale and fail banana. Or "Something's broken, why don't you go out to play for a while" < 1253731881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best error page is one that causes your browser to segfault. < 1253731886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be a man and stop clicking broken links. < 1253731930 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1253732894 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never click broken links. I navigate by hacking URLs < 1253732996 0 :inc0!n=inc0@adab219.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1253733035 0 :inc0!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253733770 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh. I tried clam chowder soup today. I try it every couple of months to see if I like it. Every time the answer is "fuck no", and I throw out half of it. (the other half I spend thinking of those poor clams) < 1253733787 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clam chowder, why do you seduce me so :( < 1253733801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect you are getting bad clam chowder. < 1253733811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since clam chowder is delicious. < 1253733865 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tried clam chowder from various sources. I say, meh. < 1253733888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very well then. < 1253733912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you should stick to other delicious things, such as delicious, delicious curry. < 1253733937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or antimatter. < 1253733937 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-howard < 1253733972 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curry is pretty nice. < 1253733995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION may need to make some curry tonight. < 1253734061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the main horrific thing about GLib is its class definition. < 1253734067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1253734067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/GObject_example.png ;; awful < 1253734081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, that's basically the same as: < 1253734087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"""The size of the file in bytes, or zero.""" < 1253734089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file_size = 0 < 1253734097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if we want to be more typed: < 1253734109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/** The size of the file in bytes, or zero. */ < 1253734114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uint64 file_size = 0; < 1253734140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ensure(>= 0, < UINT64_MAX); < 1253734158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When your object system is more painful than C++'s, you fail at objects forever. < 1253734172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The object *system* is fine, just not the interface. < 1253734179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... Right. < 1253734183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally what I meant to say. < 1253734191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I detect sarcasm. < 1253734209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is none that I meant. < 1253734212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1253734221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof that GObject doesn't have to be horrible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vala_(programming_language) < 1253734309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing GObject in C is about as awful as writing C++ classes in C would be. < 1253734491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Vala seems nice, though. < 1253734672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah. 'S what I'ma write my IRC client in. < 1253734681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253734696 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253734704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoopsie. < 1253734745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest that GNOME kill C in favor of Vala. It seems to make GTK a sane and reasonable library... < 1253734764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the applications, agreed. Although C# with Gtk# is becoming popular. < 1253734786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For GObject libraries, C is probably better since you have seemingly more direct control over the object system itself, I think. < 1253734790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not sure. < 1253734794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. < 1253734807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is obviously going to be seeing use at least in parts of the libraries. < 1253734811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vala is a little unstable; releases seem to happen very often. < 1253734846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And the reference counting is a downside in some cases. < 1253734915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making this a GNOME app and library is killing me; so hard to resist the urge to start coding on the backend and read the Gnome HIG and design an interface instead. :) < 1253737342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=1857&aid=-1 < 1253737347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CowboyNeal < 1253737924 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B13269A.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253739594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253739960 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-164-33-22.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253740187 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253740646 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253740923 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-97-236.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253741492 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1253741640 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253742940 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-122.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253743203 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253744374 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253745125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnop" < 1253745142 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253746002 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253747490 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-064-038.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253747502 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253747514 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253748048 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253748272 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253748348 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253748402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ugh. I tried clam chowder soup today. I try it every couple of months to see if I like it. Every time the answer is "fuck no", and I throw out half of it. (the other half I spend thinking of those poor clams) < 1253748412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i see your problem there. < 1253748420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: it's in the second sentence. < 1253748470 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never know. I didn't like mushrooms too much until I had them buried in Chinese food sauce < 1253748571 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your emphasis is well-placed, however < 1253748678 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If some food tastes bad, check that it has enough fat in it. Fat tastes good. But OTOH, High-Fat High-Carbohydrate food probably isn't very healthy... < 1253748820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure they breed clams for leanness, but you never know... < 1253748893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: that's a rather odd formula; are you suggesting fat = taste? :P < 1253748907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this year there was an article in a norwegian newspaper that our lambs are now so lean that the national dish (sheep in cabbage) is getting tasteless < 1253748926 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Butter, olive oil or coconut oil is good way to add fats if you aren't sure... < 1253748957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bacon's probably the best way to add fat, because you also add bacon. < 1253748958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh given the special taste of sheep fat, some suggested that may not be all bad for its popularity... < 1253749014 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Lard... < 1253749099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you need to work on your english articles. and i say that only because your english otherwise seems perfect to me. < 1253749179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too perfect. Ilari is clearly unamerican and therefore a terrorist. < 1253749239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, possibly... < 1253749261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hasn't denied it, it must be true. < 1253749269 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah... < 1253749295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a terrorist _would_ deny it. until after the bomb. < 1253749323 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Or something else very nasty. :-> < 1253749333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: i'm scared now < 1253749340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, exactly, is this nasty thing < 1253749350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bombs, planes, crab infestation... < 1253749357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the possibilities are endless < 1253749525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253749587 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a certain reassortment between H1N1 and HPAI A/H5N1 ("Bird flu"). Probably that combination either produces nonviable virus or something Nasty^(N+1). < 1253749637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you know, please don't do that, kay? < 1253749640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx. < 1253749646 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea which, IIRC, nobody has tried and nobody with resources to do it is crazy enough to try < 1253749704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most terrorists probably don't want to hit their _own_ population too hard < 1253749818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm reassortments of influenza switch between 8 parts, don't they. so you only have to try 254 combinations. < 1253749854 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some combinations are more likely to produce something REALLY Nasty if they happen to work. < 1253749916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the part that makes H1N1 really infective isn't the same part as what makes H5N1 really deadly < 1253749929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: either you learn really fast, or have way too much time on your hands :) < 1253749993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly he reads news. it's not like this stuff wasn't plastered everywhere a few months ago < 1253750025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the news talk about mixing flus for great evil? < 1253750064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, albeit by accident < 1253750120 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Influenza is too unstable to be usable as (non-doomsday) biological weapon... < 1253750153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, basically only north korea will have developed this stuff < 1253750247 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if one wants to make doomsday biological weapon out of influenza, wonder if some immune system exploit could be spiced in. Would likely really pump up the CFR... < 1253750301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the council of foreign relations? possibly. < 1253750316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on < 1253750319 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good such exploit and resistance to main antivirals -> ~100% CFR. < 1253750348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's using acronyms I don't understand, I conclude that this sstuff isn't from the news :P < 1253750359 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFR => Case Fatality Rate. < 1253750384 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253750384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i was nearly about to apply a case of fatal swatting there < 1253750389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stuff < 1253750391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :( < 1253750393 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253750394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait to Ilari? < 1253750400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1253750461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omniscience + slight speech error. clear signs of evil overlordness < 1253750538 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway... I'm sure some states that have or have had biological weapons program have developed some real nice stuff in practice. < 1253750557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nice" < 1253750658 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding fat... Any really nice "healthy eating" propaganda videos shown in school? :-) < 1253750687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hey you redid my beautiful subpage move, you scoundrel < 1253750704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yah, because subpages aren't enabled on the wiki < 1253750720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus SNUSP/Extensions reads simply as that in English; i.e. "SNUSP or Extensions", which makes no sense. < 1253750742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen pages named that way before, i had no idea they were anything special but i just tried to follow some tradition < 1253750755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably by noobs :P < 1253750767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course wikipedia doesn't use / much either < 1253750776 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253750777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mediawiki if you enable subpages a grey, small, slightly indented link to the parent page appears below the title < 1253750783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of "History of bla bla bla " pages, e.g. < 1253750783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., giving them semantic meaning < 1253750786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't neabled here < 1253750788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enabled < 1253750802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: probably because hierarchies suck for organising. < 1253750803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of things aren't enabled :( < 1253750855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esolangs wiki is pretty sad... arbitrary Graue policies, old MediaWiki, spam filter issues, lots of stuff disabled... < 1253750946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_India is one that comes to mind < 1253750968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that essentially _is_ hierarchical, just with words < 1253750983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's more fluid < 1253751000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"History of Bar" where bar is an indian company could go in one of two places: < 1253751003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bar/History < 1253751009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :India/Bar/History < 1253751013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even, for a huge history section < 1253751016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :India/History/Bar < 1253751023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using words, you can simply use a phrase < 1253751033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which eliminates the forced hierarchy < 1253751044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh it's part of a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_by_country series < 1253751047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, that thing could be Rail transport/History/India < 1253751051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or History/India/Rail transport < 1253751055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or India/Rail transport/History < 1253751059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or India/History/Rail transport < 1253751060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1253751065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1253751576 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253751623 0 :Elench!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253751684 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253752667 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃" < 1253754306 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253754357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1253754510 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253754516 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253754536 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253754817 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253756979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253758559 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253758694 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1253759520 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253760219 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-133.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253761125 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253761565 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253764180 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253764324 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253768745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253773094 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253774249 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-168-3.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1253774465 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to combine XOR and NOT gates to make an AND gate? < 1253774485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't think so < 1253774500 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about AND-NOT? < 1253774513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT and XOR are both linear gates mod 2, you cannot get anything which isn't from that < 1253774527 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1253774557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND-NOT? you mean NAND or NOR? if so yes, each of those can get everything and they are the only 2 to 1 gates which can < 1253774588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(alone) < 1253774599 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND-NOT = (A and (not B)) although i realize that either requires or implies AND to be possible. < 1253774607 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ignore that question < 1253774630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A and (not B) is dual to A if B < 1253774649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it B if A < 1253774678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if A then B = (not A) or B < 1253774744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is actually a theory of what you can compose from given gates, known as post classes, i investigated that for an article which never got published < 1253774794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a somewhat complicated but very pretty theory < 1253774843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post's_lattice < 1253774865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recognize the notation for each class in wp though < 1253775022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A and (not B) is that T_0^infinity, i think < 1253775091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes A and (not B) = not (if A then B), so that overstriked -> < 1253775174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR and NOT is what wp calls the class A < 1253775182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, *clone < 1253775364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except it uses equivalence and 0 for the base) < 1253775372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think that's equivalent < 1253777399 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253779199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253779200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253779717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253779931 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253782128 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253783099 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253786608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We hope make this a night that you want to forget but your colleagues will remind you of for the rest of your life." -- from the recently emailed note about the combi-Christmas-party for the three computer-science-related departments here. < 1253786692 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Light travels faster then sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak" < 1253787100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253787127 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253787127 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253787296 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253787319 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-223.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253787319 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253787729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hehe < 1253789101 0 :ttm_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253789236 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253790614 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B137B04.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253794257 0 :ais523!i=93bce47c@gateway/web/freenode/x-utwhlugcgulxpcas JOIN :#esoteric < 1253794445 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253794837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253795071 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253795740 0 :Tinned_Tuna!n=danny@94-195-251-193.zone9.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253796200 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-46-208.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253797022 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253797200 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253797709 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d901ee@gateway/web/freenode/x-panptvevybxodxog JOIN :#esoteric < 1253800456 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253800470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, wow, Ubuntu sucks at hibernation < 1253800489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes about 30-45 seconds to hibernate, and about two minutes to go from grub to the previous state < 1253800609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/23/intel-unveils-light-peak-10gbps-optical-interconnect-for-mobile/ < 1253800621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10gbps usb? yes < 1253802605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I act to mitigate, redesign, and occasionally destroy the offerings of users who think that a particular "breakthrough" or "notable idea" deserves more consideration than it has gotten in the academic world. Such grandstanding is forbidden by a variety of Wikipedia policies and guidelines (WP:V, WP:SOAP, WP:NOR, WP:FRINGE, WP:WEIGHT, WP:NOT, and WP:REDFLAG to name just a few). Wikipedia is inherently a non-innovative reference work: it stifles creativity < 1253802606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and free-thought. If Wikipedia had been around at the time of Galileo, his ideas would have been subject to my incisive commentary and editorial braggadocio -- even if I agreed with him. I am a status quo promoter. NPOV-PUSHER.]] < 1253802618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think there'd be a way of explaining all that without sounding like a fascist dick. < 1253803040 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253803585 0 :ais523!i=93bce480@gateway/web/freenode/x-bxkpvxiytabykzsg JOIN :#esoteric < 1253805101 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-223.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253805237 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-133.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253805402 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253805406 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1253805965 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253806881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253807037 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253807084 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253807267 0 :CESSMASTER!n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely JOIN :#esoteric < 1253807645 0 :CESSMASTER!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253809753 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253811162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION upgrades to Karmic Koala alpha < 1253811173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What fun is Ubuntu without instability?!?!?! < 1253811603 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253812085 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-172-5-91.range86-172.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253812982 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253813371 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253813499 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-064-038.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253813694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu upgrader, are you really removing Bitstream Vera? < 1253813695 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253813695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1253813731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253813967 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-169-194.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253814349 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253814427 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253814430 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Xming < 1253814683 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253815400 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-064-038.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253815572 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253816460 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253816472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test. < 1253816552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253817596 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253817766 0 :Tinned_Tuna!n=danny@94-195-251-193.zone9.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253818933 0 :ehird!i=5b6949aa@gateway/web/freenode/x-plvfdtywahqyyycz JOIN :#esoteric < 1253818979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My condensed impression of Ubutnu 9.10 "Karmic Koala" alpha 6: Hey, this is kinda cool. The bugs can probably be ironed out in three or four months, say, and this'll be a really polished new release. ...What do you mean, it's coming out next month? < 1253819222 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253819236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Karma Koalamon", wasn't that some sort of old hit song. < 1253819293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly doesn't feel like this OS has been maturing for 26 years. < 1253819360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, I have discovered yet another form of joy only known to ridiculous programmers. < 1253819365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The joy of unexpected generality! < 1253819416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have an idea for one specific thing; a little bit of polish or whatever, a little bit of code to bring some stuff together. Later, you think "oh. actually, we could do (big)N things this way". Yay, now your job is harder! < 1253819431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253820283 0 :ehird!i=5b6949aa@gateway/web/freenode/x-xeegybdqijjllzvj JOIN :#esoteric < 1253820292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: Where is the fastest Ubuntu mirror for my connection located? < 1253820294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: South Africa < 1253820296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253820657 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253820680 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1253822838 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253822861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1253822972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo but < 1253822973 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but < 1253822977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo butt < 1253822978 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butt butt < 1253823014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++>+.<.>. < 1253823028 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1253823374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253823489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm are you good at latex? < 1253823523 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I've written a fair bit of it, but I'm certainly no LaTeX guru. < 1253823605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an issue with equations. Basically, is there any "better" way than \begin{cases} ... \end{cases} to write a system of equations. After all cases is for two column multi-case definitions < 1253823626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for equation systems it works if you leave the second column empty < 1253823645 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typically use \begin{align*} for simple cases < 1253823668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how does that work? Also what is "simple" here? < 1253823746 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253823780 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"simple" is the kind of stuff where I don't feel the need for cases or array or the like. < 1253823789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've used align too. < 1253823797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::qa < 1253823800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah < 1253823873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do you add the one sided { for that though? < 1253823912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My answer would be "you don't", but maybe fizzie has a better one. < 1253823959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, actually, that's my answer too. I haven't really used the one-sided { except for very cases-friendly things. < 1253823998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't want the two-column cases stuff, you could possibly use array instead. < 1253824119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, leaving the second column empty still looks odd when you have stuff like {blah <=> {blahblah (hope this ASCII-isation is readable) < 1253824139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it seems to leave some space for it < 1253824151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus abusing cases doesn't work well < 1253824155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a single-column array, then. < 1253824163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, maybe < 1253824234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've also done something like \begin{array}{rcl} foo &=& bar \\ baz &=& quux \end{array} when I've needed something align-like but as a subpart of a larger math mode piece. (Though that needs some manual whitespace here and there unlike the amslatex 'align'; it's possible they provide something for this purpose too, though.) < 1253824261 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I've done that too. < 1253824329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yes, amslatex seems to have an "aligned" environment, which can be used as a component like that. < 1253824342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can stick {s around it. < 1253824397 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds familiar; maybe I've used that sometimes. < 1253824404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So something like \left\{ \begin{aligned} x &= foo \\ y &= bar \end{aligned} \right. should give you a nicely typeset "{ x = foo, y = bar" equation system with the =s aligned vertically. < 1253824426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253824498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course with align you can put the &s at the beginning of the rows if you just want left-aligned on-top-of-each-other equations. < 1253824526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you might as well use displaymath. < 1253824540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this seems to work: < 1253824542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$\left\{ \begin{aligned}2a+b=0\\ < 1253824542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3a-5b=0\end{aligned} < 1253824542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\right.$ < 1253824561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between aligned and aligned* btw < 1253824573 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numbering, presumably. < 1253824594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that was just a short test case, the real thing I need this for is way way larger) < 1253824594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure what an aligned* would do, though, since the numbering comes from the "top-level" math environment. < 1253824598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah, but that doesn't make sense outside a display formula < 1253824614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, only at top level < 1253824641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see an "aligned*" environment described in this thing, but maybe there's some special variant. < 1253824679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is the alignat thingy hm < 1253824709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you're not going to use a & anywhere in your equations, I think \begin{aligned} ... \end{aligned} is essentially equivalent to \begin{array}{c} ... \end{array}. < 1253824764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And alignat lets you specify the space between rows. < 1253824777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err between rows? < 1253824801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nno, actually it just lets you specify the number of columns there. < 1253824820 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253824843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh they are centered < 1253824854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, because you didn't tell it where to align them. < 1253824860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need the rows left aligned < 1253824869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want left-aligned, just stick a & in the beginning; it'll align those points. < 1253824879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253824880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why you're using align, after all. < 1253824902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, use a \begin{array}{l} ... \end{array} instead of {aligned} there. < 1253824917 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll probably do pretty much the exact same thing in this case. < 1253825537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Karma Koalamon", wasn't that some sort of old hit song. <-- karma chameleon < 1253825556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is what I was referring to. < 1253825590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't clear how serious you were < 1253825598 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253825719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:24:52 Q: Where is the fastest Ubuntu mirror for my connection located? < 1253825722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:24:54 A: South Africa < 1253825748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems unlikely. i assume you saw about the recent pigeon test... < 1253825760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1253826069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :D < 1253826070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any idea if it may even be possible to get a circle around some number in math mode? < 1253826153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a box acceptable? < 1253826175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so: \fbox{$\displaystyle $} < 1253826241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it would need to be inside another formula, but that seems to have the entire formula inside. < 1253826242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm < 1253826252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no I really need circle here. < 1253826284 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you can put that wherever you like. < 1253826302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, box with very rounded corners might be acceptable < 1253826322 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't help you there. < 1253826339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253826345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you really *want*, you can do some manual drawing. < 1253826353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what I did with those extra-wide hats I needed. < 1253826369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\widehat isn't good enough? < 1253826386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I needed wider; even wider than the ams widehat, which is wider than the standard LaTeX. < 1253826391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah. What about arrows between two rows in an augmented matrix. The arrow going on the outside on the right between, say, row 5 and 7 or such < 1253826400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue where to even start looking < 1253826417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had assumed that one was freely expanding... < 1253826435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Unfortunately, no; it has limits too. < 1253826479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not quite sure what sort of an arrow you want here, actually. < 1253826513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, let me find an example < 1253826559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great that crashed firefox.. < 1253826614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In fact: "If you use the amsfonts package (and the ams fonts) you get a wider wide hat, but it is still not very wide. Alternatively (As you would have known if you were a member of UKTeX as it was described in the last Baskerville) The rather nice yhmath package of Yannis Haralambous provides much bigger wide hats tildes and similar widgets. " < 1253826622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And even the yhmath hat was not wide enough. < 1253826661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I had to use savebox'd picture environment manually-drawn hat and \accentset from the accents package to make it work as a math mode accent. < 1253826769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how wide was this hat? < 1253826806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The hats are in http://zem.fi/~fis/hw.pdf page 31; and the blue hat on page 32 is the widest hat that the amssymb hat can do. < 1253826864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look a bit different than the "real" hats, because it's just a ^-shaped wedge with a uniform-thickness line, while the real hats are a bit thicker in the middle. But on paper they weren't that bad. < 1253826883 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and all the text is in Finnish. < 1253826884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the gnome pdf viewer, how do you select an area as an image < 1253826890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than select text < 1253826938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evince, you mean? Not that I know the answer. < 1253826949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe that is the name of the app < 1253826955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh can't find it *uses kpdf* < 1253827007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should area-selecting do? You mean it can export regions as raster images like that, or something? < 1253827016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah < 1253827027 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253827049 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "GNOME Shell" window manager/virtual desktops/launcher/task switcher is quite perplexing. < 1253827084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok I mean like in http://omploader.org/vMmYwcQ < 1253827181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I know that thing was produced with pdftex (according to properties of pdf) but don't know who made it. And reason I didn't want to re-upload whole pdf (you need to login to the uni web system to reach it) was that it would probably violate even more copyright or such. < 1253827222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egh, that doesn't look very friendly to typeset unless you happen to have a package exactly for that. I guess you could just put a correctly-sized \begin{picture} ... \end{picture} in a mbox there and use the arrows it provides, but that sounds like a lot of work. < 1253827227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and those round things aren't very round there yeah. I was looking for similiar arrows but better (more like you would write on a paper) circles. < 1253827260 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1253827279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That whole image looks very messy, since the matrices aren't aligned. And isn't that vertical separating line supposed to be unbroken? < 1253827282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean a package for illustrating solving linear equations written as augmented matrixes? :D < 1253827296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never know what those LaTeX freaks do. < 1253827302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GNOME Shell does, at least, make virtual desktops not a complete and utter inane waste of time by renaming them to Activities and letting you create/destroy them with a single click. < 1253827305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and yes it is unbroken in evince, but not okular < 1253827311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course this is all very alpha. < 1253827325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was what I used for the picture bit due to evince not having "copy as picture" < 1253827341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also where it is broken in okular changes with zoom < 1253827373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though for a super-alpha this thing sure is high on graphical polish. < 1253827385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, showing properties for the pdf in question shows that it was produced with "MiKTeX pdfTeX-1.40.4" < 1253827452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given the general non-polishedness of that thing, I would guess it's just manually drawn arrows with picture or some-such. < 1253827459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same could actually apply to the circles. < 1253827472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound a very pleasant thing to write, really. < 1253827487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh I think I know the reason... okular says Helvetica is used from /usr/share/fonts/... but evince claims helvetica is embedded. Which seems rather strange < 1253827501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the broken lines that is) < 1253827523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evince uses poppler, fwiw. < 1253827524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it looks a lot more polished in evince though < 1253827534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so does okular iirc. < 1253827535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So before hatin' on GNOME, check that you want to insult poppler. :P < 1253827543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, but not kpdf. < 1253827550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I was insulting okular. Not evince < 1253827558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure about kpdf? < 1253827613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kpdf uses xpdf or something. < 1253827623 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253827624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on xpdf. < 1253827637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if it inherits the shitty evil-bit content restrictions compliance. < 1253827683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as I told you last time you asked that (some weeks ago): There is an option to turn that on and off < 1253827684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like poppler's not based on xpdf too. < 1253827690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and popler is based on xpdf iirc? < 1253827692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, argh! < 1253827707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but kpdf might not inherit the option. < 1253827717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's inherently crappy code that shouldn't be there, so to hell with that. < 1253827721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poppler is the library xpdf uses. < 1253827729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it got seperated from xpdf recently) < 1253827729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in xpdf it is not an option iirc? Well a compile time one < 1253827734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that changed recently < 1253827750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for kpdf it is easy to reach under settings < 1253827790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: xpdf does not use poppler afaik. < 1253827796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poppler is a fork of xpdf's rendering library. < 1253827825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with one of the main focuses being glatform^Wklatform^Wetc integration, so I doubt oh-so-very-minimal xpdf would adopt it.) < 1253827879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could swear my xpdf uses poppler. < 1253827891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1253827903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine most certainly links against it. < 1253827909 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d901ee@gateway/web/freenode/x-jeuhvvduvvrpnasz JOIN :#esoteric < 1253827909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patched? < 1253827928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xpdf has a compile-time option to use it now. < 1253827929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpdf simply doesn't mention it. < 1253827935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Unexpected. < 1253827978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xpdf mentions it. < 1253827984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. The wikipedia page does. < 1253827984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yay, I ran compiz when running gnome-shell and now have a WM with no way to start, e.g. the panels. < 1253828003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many programs (including Xpdf, itself) can use poppler as their backend renderer[3]." -- wikipedia://Xpdf < 1253828020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia:// is not and shouldn't be a protocol. < 1253828030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Erm. The wikipedia page does. <-- yeah wikipedia is defined as being true. So ./configure --help is LYING < 1253828040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you fail at URIs. < 1253828042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253828045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you didn't even read what he said. < 1253828062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If "fail at" means "understand the structure and rationale of", then yes. < 1253828065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I just copied wrong line < 1253828072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to copy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpdf simply doesn't mention it. < 1253828076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URIs do not map to protocols at all. < 1253828079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but somehow ended up copying wrong < 1253828083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, certain of them do. < 1253828091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "wikipedia://" is simply wrong. < 1253828094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isbn: doesn't, though. < 1253828099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am well aware. < 1253828101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wikipedia:// is simply unspecified. < 1253828114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Your pedanticism is stupid, because the part before : in a URI is known as the protocol. < 1253828126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. xd < 1253828135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is. < 1253828168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that unpolished pic ends up looking good when printed hm < 1253828253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gasp; printers have a high enough DPI that you don't need to antialias. < 1253828254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shocking. < 1253828293 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Displays have something like 100DPI, printers can easily be 1200DPI... < 1253828297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Flip fnip fnop" < 1253828298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you end up wanting to draw stuff manually, before embarking on a magical \begin{picture} adventure, you might want to check out xypic too. It's a bit more complicated, but it has a "xymatrix" environment, which at least lets you draw things between matrix cells; it could maybe be abused for that too. < 1253828323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The canonical display resolution is 96PPI. Cheapo printers are like 300-600DPI, decent ones 1200DPI+. < 1253828327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, atm I'm actually considering pstricks. Of course that could well be even worse < 1253828339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why are you using latex? < 1253828342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's certainly more flexible than picture. < 1253828356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what are you suggesting instead? < 1253828361 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1253828394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, what are you trying to do? < 1253828405 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253828446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nicely formatted math in a document consisting of roughly 5 pages. About 1/3 of that would end up as equations < 1253828453 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High-def monitors have DPI somewhere in neighborhood of 200... < 1253828456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and my handwriting really sucks < 1253828459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes folder on desktop with Nautilus, creates fuck.sh, puts inside "sh", *cackles* < 1253828465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: use LyX or something. < 1253828481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: 200PPI is very rare; I only know of the two IBM monitors around 220PPI. < 1253828489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, duh I am using it. But I ran out of it's capabilities here... < 1253828491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff like 170PPI is in phones and shit. < 1253828498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I'm using raw latex inserts in it < 1253828501 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, high-def monitors are very rare. < 1253828513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The highest I know is the 1600PPI MyVu Crystal thingies that they project onto glasses that cover your eyes, so you can watch movies and shit. < 1253828520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's .5" and 640x480.) < 1253828540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OpenOffice equations or something? LaTeX is a bitch to write. < 1253828564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can it do stuff like http://omploader.org/vMmYwcQ but that looks nice? < 1253828573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not *as* nice. < 1253828575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phones do go up to something close to 300 PPI now. < 1253828592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um "as nice"? what are you on... That pic does look quite horrible < 1253828604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Howso, apart from those circle things? < 1253828617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the gaps in several of the lines for example < 1253828635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, true. < 1253828658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, look at the first equation in the last line, look at the arrow at it. Look at the upper corner on that arrow line. See the gap? < 1253828660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Gah. That's painful typesetting. < 1253828665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing would benefit from a bit of alignment too, but that should be very doable with LaTeX. < 1253828674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, true."; i.e., yes, I can see. < 1253828676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes. Now do that well please! < 1253828691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I meant the [ being broken first time around < 1253828699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1253828703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hope LaTeX could do it well. However, I'm not familiar with typing matrices into TeX. < 1253828716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and alignment is easy yeah \hphantom{} and \vphantom{} < 1253828724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used both inside equations already today! < 1253828738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253828743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matrices are easy, but the arrows less so. < 1253828759 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253828784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253828803 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253828814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'd hope LaTeX could do it well. However, I'm not familiar with typing matrices into TeX. <-- according to the properties of the pdf it was from it was created by "MiKTeX pdfTeX-1.40.4" < 1253828825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that could just be user error < 1253828841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I don't even know how to get it as well as that level so yeah... < 1253828876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably typeset that whole thing inside a \begin{align*} to get the overall alignment done easily, then the amsmath "matrix" environments to typeset the individual matrices, and a \mbox{}'d picture/xypic/pstricks manually-drawn bit to the right of each matrix containing the circled numbers and arrows. Though the arrow position tweaking won't be very pleasant. < 1253828879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it does look a lot better in evince though. okular messes it up much more < 1253828890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like the "-1/2" and "--1" and the horrendous alignment suggests major TeX fail. < 1253828943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes, And I do know how to do the matrixes easily enough. Something like: [\begin{array}{ccccc|c} < 1253828957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that was too much < 1253828962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin{array}{ccccc|c} < 1253828963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1253828979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the ams matrix envs, not array; they do a lot better (i.e. less) whitespace in there. < 1253828982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then \left[ and \right] < 1253828983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around < 1253828992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm interesting < 1253829056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that means dropping lyx wysiwym though since lyx doesn't seem to support that specific env < 1253829077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's insert matrix is what ends up as arrays < 1253829078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1253829123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "bmatrix" in amsmath which typesets the [...] delimiters automatically and well. < 1253829131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where is the --1? < 1253829153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the ...? < 1253829167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The [ and ] automatically, I mean. < 1253829169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253829226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though since the ams matrices don't have explicit column specifiers, I'm not entirely sure offhand how to do the separating vertical line there. I'm sure it's possible, though. (Not that you couldn't get entirely reasonable matrices with array too.) < 1253829227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Third line, the scaling operation. < 1253829229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well ok sound good, but those manual [] outside doesn't cause a lot of issue really since that is wysiwyg editing anyway. And yeah the lyx generated source looks quite painful < 1253829253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, looks like a long minus? < 1253829257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1253829267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, rather than two separate dashes < 1253829270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253829283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh you didn't mean two separate dashes with -- ? < 1253829294 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253829297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it should really be a short minus dash in all those cases < 1253829305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant a long dash, and that is written using ASCII with --. < 1253829311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is for -1/2 on last line < 1253829326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(short that is) < 1253829330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah maybe < 1253829358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it *should* be is the math mode minus, but it looks like it's outside math mode, with that one long dash and three short ones cheerfully mixed together. < 1253829373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that pic uses | for the line rather than a full line < 1253829392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess whoever it was just inserted an extra column with | in it < 1253829515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw what about underlining, I used bold instead (looks a lot nicer, but the original pic is intended to illustrate something that is plausible to write with a pencil... and bold really isn't) < 1253829569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bold is just fine. Or did you want to know how to underline those? < 1253829619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do end up using the ams matrices (you can try replacing one array with them to see if they make any difference) and still want the vertical column-separating line, http://texblog.net/latex-archive/maths/amsmath-matrix/ will be helpful. < 1253829659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah I wanted to know how to underline < 1253829677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :texblog heh < 1253829717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\underline{xx} would be my guess, but I don't quite remember. It would be a reasonable complement to the \overline{xx} I know exists in math mode. < 1253829736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that overbar/underbar? Can't ever remember without looking up. < 1253829753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if you mean that using {cc|c} kind of thing? Yeah? Same as usual then? < 1253829804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aligning with minus sign sticking out in front would be nicer, didn't manage that yet without lots of \hphantom kind of stuff < 1253829847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, with that tweak the matrix envs will accept the usual {ccc|c} thing. Admittedly there's not much benefit from using them (over an explicit array) except that they have those automatic delimiters (a minor thing) and they decrease the huge horizontal spacing a bit (maybe a matter of taste). < 1253829861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, \underbar. Yay for lyx completion suggestions as you type \ in math mode < 1253829937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wunderbar. < 1253829952 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253829953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this sounds familiar but I can't really identify it < 1253829976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: German adjactive for en:wonderful. < 1253830078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not immediately obvious how to easily do "center numbers but ignore the minus sign"; it is reasonably easy to do "left-align numbers but ignore the minus sign" by using two columns in place of one, with the other column containing only the minus signs. < 1253830135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and some horrible adjustment < 1253830152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah center + ignore minus would be nice < 1253830157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What horrible adjustment? < 1253830173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for the column spacing < 1253830189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that there is less space between minus sign and number column < 1253830199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But you can do that in the column specifier. < 1253830207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm how? < 1253830220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use "r @{} l" to get a right-aligned column and a left-aligned column with no space between them. < 1253830227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1253830263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would be like: {r@{}lr@{}lr@{}l|r@{}l} instead of {ccc|c} then? < 1253830278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Not very pretty, admittedly. < 1253830287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you probably want to use @{X} instead, where X is something that will cause a tiny space, to leave a small breathing gap between the digits and the minus sign. < 1253830328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, some thin space like \, ? < 1253830355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though in that case you probably need to re-enter math mode in there, so @{$\,$} -- not quite sure about that. < 1253830376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think \, works outside math mode though < 1253830385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not completely sure about that < 1253830400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, yes. Haven't really used them elsewhere, though. < 1253830406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@{$\,$} <-- that looks like quite a painful smiley! < 1253830431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess it actually should work without the $$s, because I remember using \quad outside math mode. < 1253830461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why on earth something like \quad. I never found a use for it < 1253830479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To leave a reasonable gap between two pictures, I think. < 1253830527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the two-column approach still doesn't center the digits, of course. For that you'd need to define some-sort of zero-width minus sign. Not impossible, of course. < 1253830537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I'm suspecting that the sanest way to do this is pstricks, but that way I can't use pdftex then. and I like \usepackage{microtype}... < 1253830552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, can pdftex render to ps? < 1253830584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't need hyperref really in this case < 1253830594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.coli.uni-saarland.de/~fouvry/how-do-I.html "PSTricks with pdflatex". They sound quite kludgy. < 1253830638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh yeah you can embed pdf in pdf. Quite a nice feature that I actually used a few times < 1253830657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(convert svg to pdf, then embed that) < 1253830753 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253830860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I think a \makebox[0pt]{$-$\rule{Xpt}{0pt}} should give you a math-mode "-" character that is actually zero-width, and displaced a bit (depending on the X there) to the left from the point you use it in. You should be able to use that sort of structure in front of numbers in a centered array column to get the "center numbers but ignore the minus sign" behaviour. < 1253830867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least so do I speculate; haven't tried. < 1253830974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm ok worth a try I guess. < 1253830995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, why on earth something like \quad. I never found a use for it < 1253831000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo \quad if n=3 < 1253831001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e < 1253831060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you fail there I'm afraid. \begin{cases} < 1253831062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253831075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was how this whole discussion started < 1253831084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, well, that doesn't work always. < 1253831094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latex is all about opportunistic hacks. < 1253831104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the cases env is a lot better for what you are suggesting < 1253831121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it works, and if you want everything else that comes with it < 1253831128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if it didn't exist it would be way better to use at least a matrix < 1253831132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't seriously be a purity zealot when using latex, so don't argue that it's wrong. < 1253831140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, two lines won't be aligned then < 1253831151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said anything about two lines < 1253831167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was assuming it was in something like: < 1253831175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-x if x < 0 < 1253831179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x otherwise < 1253831183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a huge { on the side < 1253831187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you made a donkey out of you and I. < 1253831216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I couldn't think of a reason for such a big space like that otherwise < 1253831235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the given phrase < 1253831250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t'was jus t an example < 1253831251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just < 1253831263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1253831477 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253831668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm. I think a \makebox[0pt]{$-$\rule{Xpt}{0pt}} <-- just tested it. Latex errors on Xpt. What was that supposed to be instead? < 1253831674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you said it < 1253831682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. suggested value for X? < 1253831721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, it's a bit font-dependent. Possibly you could use a \hphantom with suitable contents instead of a fixed-width strut. < 1253831726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well it was placed on top of the text with X = 1 < 1253831738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, 1pt is not very much of spacing. < 1253831740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in on top of the \nicefrac directly following it < 1253831763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll need at least a "-"'s worth of space there, because the \makebox centers the text in it. < 1253831792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any magic way to find out how wide the - is there? < 1253831804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of phantom maybe? < 1253831821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naybe \hphantom{$-\,$} or something. < 1253831830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To provide "- and a bit" of space. < 1253831856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a bit hacky solution though. < 1253831866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I'm not familiar with how \rule works. What does the arguments in \rule{Xpt}{0pt} mean? < 1253831884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First one is width, second one is height. < 1253831945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It creates a filled box with those arguments, but generally it's used to do horizontal or vertical lines (in which case one of the arguments is line thickness and the other the length) or alternatively struts (with zero width or zero height) to control spacing. < 1253831971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok that made latex error for some reason, it accepted \rule though < 1253832023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm seems it didn't like math mode inside hphantom? < 1253832074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in theory it works, except that it ends up on top of the | line of the augmented matrix < 1253832124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. Well, you can solve that by adjusting the column spacing manually if you want. < 1253832238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you seriously dislike the fixed-width \rule there, possibly \makebox[0pt][r]{$-\,$} could work instead. The additional 'r' argument should make the right edge of the "- " text be flush against the right edge of the zero-width box, i.e. the place you use it in. < 1253832294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I need about half a \, though < 1253832298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how < 1253832392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's a smaller predefined space. You can use a suitable \rule again; but at least this time the rule won't have to depend on the length of the - sign, it's just the amount of space. < 1253832435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm: \negthinspace{} is negative space XD < 1253832454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it would depend on font size though in reality < 1253832455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and font < 1253832464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\quad is 1em, I think, and \, is 3/18 quad, so 0.16em; something like \rule{0.8em}{0pt} would be half a \,. < 1253832472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253832499 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253832506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that there's a different concept of "font size" in- and out-math-mode, and you're sort of mixing the modes there; but in practice I guess it should work. < 1253832510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for some reason that placed it way off the other way < 1253832521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in two \quad at least < 1253832568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1253832574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your math fails :P < 1253832578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \quad is 1em, I think, and \, is 3/18 quad, so 0.16em; something like \rule{0.8em}{0pt} would be half a \,. < 1253832585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.8 * 2 = 0.16 :D < 1253832619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint it should be 0.08) < 1253832623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The decimal points, who cares about it. < 1253832628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253832643 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253832954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, issue is that this doesn't make the column wide enough in the matrix hm < 1253832965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you say you fixed that now again? < 1253833126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can add a spacer column there, maybe with the @{...} syntax. < 1253833224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was you supposed to put inside the ${} ? < 1253833225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1253833227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@{} < 1253833269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried using a phantom but that resulted in very strange things < 1253833301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat-gnome is so lame < 1253833472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what to put there; maybe one of the \:-style spaces, since those are font-size-dependent. < 1253833502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, \: hm? < 1253833513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\quad\,\, worked < 1253833518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible hack yes < 1253833584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fully agreed < 1253833653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i wish you would stop agreeing to things when you know full well that we hate entirely different things about them and on the topic you know I think you're wrong about everything except this one boolean switch value, not the reasons behind it < 1253833669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. when I said kde sucks and you said "yeah, 4 at least") < 1253833704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat-gnome sucks, but xchat is far, far worse. < 1253833712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I disagree with < 1253833730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the two lines prior. < 1253833750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253833758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't make any sense to agree with an opinion if it's just a single boolean value and happens to come from entirely different reasoning and position < 1253833793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you should provide the full thing so I can tell that it differs < 1253833811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you provide too little information < 1253833838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (a) I'm exceedingly lazy (b) I've mentioned xchat vs xchat-gnome before (c) it's fairly obvious I don't hate xchat-gnome because it isn't bloated like xchat :) < 1253833845 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-075-137.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253833893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...although as a bandaid it could do with a "put the userlist to the right instead of concealed behind that button" option because I get the whole "it wastes space for quite a rare operation" thing but this is just a terrible solution < 1253834140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, xchat is bloated? < 1253834156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a menu just for all its preference dialogs, dude. < 1253834187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could use with all those in the main preference dialog yes < 1253834192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and checking user list is quite common < 1253834211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they were all in one dialog it might cause a black hole due to its ridiculous hugeness. < 1253834237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's quite common; I'm not quite sure it deserves such screen real estate, though. Ooh, maybe in my client, in the tree view, the channel could expand to a user list. < 1253834242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it already has a treeview. And it would still be less than the treeview in the kdevelop settings for example < 1253834244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could leave it up if you want, and it's still accessable with a click. < 1253834247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other apps like that < 1253834251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or visual studio < 1253834266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Is KDevelop's bigger than SeaMonkey's, I wonder? < 1253834269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I expect you to argue than an irc client needs less options < 1253834287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accessible, not accessable < 1253834298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't have seamonkey and just remember kdevelop didn't use a tree view but an icon list and then tabbed pages under each icon < 1253834305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is kate that uses a tree view < 1253834308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND tabbed pages < 1253834309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253834314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not tabbed for all) < 1253834327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kate's isn't really *that* huge, though. < 1253834334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's well-organised. Still could do with a big trim. < 1253834343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kate... do with a trim? < 1253834345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sinner < 1253834373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very well balanced and feature rich. Yet way easier to find what you are looking for than in emacs < 1253834385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but... it still has an awful, awful lot of preferences. < 1253834399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I changed over 2/3 of them I think < 1253834406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I think it is good < 1253834413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you're crazy and anyone designing software around you is crazy. < 1253834432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still something like visual studio has WAY more options < 1253834447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and visual studio handles way fewer languages too < 1253834457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but Kate makes claim to be an editor, not an integrated development whoopisystem. < 1253834478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would place kate somewhere between "IDE" and "bare editor" < 1253834484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more towards editor than IDE though < 1253834523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ought to write a text editor as actual separate Unix commands, so the claim that it's an IDE is finally true. < 1253834526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this places emacs near IDEs (except less integrated for many languages) < 1253834535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sed doesn't count, it combines multiple commands into one. :P) < 1253834604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1253834620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could write it based on a simple dd + sh base < 1253834635 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heya. Anyone here have any experience writing interpetters ? < 1253834642 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* interpreters < 1253834645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shell scripts like "replace" and "search" and "view" and what not < 1253834645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect everyone. < 1253834655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the bots. < 1253834659 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1253834662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: View? You mean cat? < 1253834688 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253834695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, view: #!/bin/sh\n$PAGER $@ < 1253834698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1253834699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1253834699 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you lend us a hand, I'm struggling to write a brainfuck interpreter in python, I can't get it to loop correctly on [ or ] < 1253834712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway my plan was to base it ALL on just dd and sh < 1253834715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pagers don't have a command-line based interface. < 1253834730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so those are the only external dependencies < 1253834732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is that meant to be interesting? dd/sh is an established "language". < 1253834748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: Either you have to find the matching [ or ] every time you execute in the code, or you need to match them beforehand. < 1253834757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but it makes it more portable or something. (yeah it doesn't really hold up) < 1253834772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: If you're looping through the program file character by character, firstly, stop and load it all into memory first. < 1253834801 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have it loaded into a list, and each time I encounter a [ I push the current position in the program onto a stack < 1253834811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: Right. And? < 1253834833 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then when I find the matching ] I don't have to walk backwards in the code I just jump there < 1253834840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so what's the issue? < 1253834868 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/YQPtSBmh < 1253834877 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, It's not working as desired :-/ < 1253834912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Epiphany just crashed upon opening that straining codepad page. < 1253834916 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to run >+++++[>+>+<<-] < 1253834917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try clicking it again... < 1253834925 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :-( < 1253834929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's okay. :P < 1253834937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: (btw, it's interpreter with one t) < 1253834949 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, lol < 1253834952 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always mis-type it < 1253834957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.stack.append((self.instruction_pointer,self.pointer,)) # why save self.pointer here too? < 1253834971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: anyway, your [ has a bug < 1253834975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the value is 0 at the start of the loop? < 1253834978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it executes it anyway < 1253835000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: you have to check at both ends, OR, you can make the ] jump unconditionally to the [, and let the [ do all the checking (but this is slightly slower) < 1253835119 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I only need to check on the [ and ]? < 1253835122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how to tell pdftex to embed *all* fonts? < 1253835138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well only the used parts obviously < 1253835140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: What conditions would require checking for the others? < 1253835143 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie. line 53 to 57 is unnecessary? < 1253835199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, yes < 1253835202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are they supposed to do? < 1253835291 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're supposed to be doing the checking in the loop < 1253835326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: the loop doesn't abort if it becomes 0 inside the loop < 1253835333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should look at the semantics for the commands again < 1253835344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck#Language_overview < 1253835429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't really know; there's the pdftexDownloadBase14 setting you can change, but that's set to "true" in the default system config here at least. < 1253835446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1253835469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that from some \latexcommand or command line option or? < 1253835510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's in the updmap.cfg tex config file; Debian has an "update-updmap" tool to build that, your distribution might do things differently. < 1253835524 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must've misread that then, thanks :-) < 1253835553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np < 1253835562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm ok. and it is set to true, yet helvetica isn't embedded < 1253835816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on some quick googling, it looks like it can't embed Helvetica unless you actually, you know, have it; I mean the actual font named "Helvetica", which is commercial and all. < 1253835824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.de/group/comp.text.tex/browse_thread/thread/690b4c0f9cbf2f49/3052d903aaaeadcd has some workarounds. < 1253835832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a reason you need it embedded, though? < 1253835953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The workarounds seem to mostly involve running things through Ghostscript's pdfwriter device with font-embedding turned on, using "ps2pdf13 -dPDFSETTINGS=/prepress in.pdf out.pdf"; that sounds like it could mess something else up easily. < 1253835981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must sleep now. < 1253836181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1253837584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rmime-mode has one annoying feature: if you sort your messages, you lost your attachments. I find it great otherwise." <-- *blink* < 1253837608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly it needs a preference "[ ] Don't delete my attachments". < 1253837618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster would probably defend it by saying he changed it :P < 1253837620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1253837649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would be zzo-ish < 1253837681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering how the hell that person I quoted could consider it a feature < 1253837714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a gnomist like i would claim that a lot of existing preferences tend to amount to "don't break" :P < 1253837733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. from a usability perspective; "[ ] Be usable") < 1253837803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, arguing that a KDE user or anything would consider "delete attachments if you sort mail" a feature... is just insane < 1253837814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called hyperbole for the sake of making a point < 1253837825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a very bad analogy < 1253837845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never said analogy. and of course you don't think it's a good whatever because you hate the perspective < 1253837858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough i didn't say it for you to appreciate < 1253837870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and this was an emacs mode btw < 1253837896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I do think someone could claim it as a feature < 1253837897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253838260 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't most of attachments virii anyway? :-> < 1253838302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I thought they were usually diffs? ;P < 1253838540 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rewarding myself with a cookie for getting my python to interpret very simple brainfuck... brb < 1253838594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd class that more crumb level :P < 1253838595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a trivial interpreter in python recently. < 1253838613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't get around to input iirc < 1253838625 0 :p0nce!n=ponce@paradisia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253838643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait hm I did < 1253838655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was too slow to run anything non-trivial though < 1253838690 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I've not even studied any of this in my course yet though. And I'm really stupid. This is an achievement for me :-) < 1253838755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't use a "store position" model, rather it parsed it into a recursive list of tuples < 1253838879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: yay stupidity! < 1253838880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1253838889 0 :p0nce!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253838920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try to be nice... or something < 1253838928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uh, he called himself stupid < 1253838935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: Try to be nice! To... yourself. < 1253838970 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true though, before I came to uni I was very, very dumb < 1253838971 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253838978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the nice way would have been "oh I don't think you are stupid, it is like that for most people in the beginning" < 1253838992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1253838999 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look back at code from less than a year ago and just cringe so very hard. < 1253839000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and if the world was filled with people who said shit like that all the time it'd be overwhelmingly boring < 1253839014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh good point indeed < 1253839100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone thinks they were stupid a few years ago fwiw < 1253839252 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but do they think they were stupid enough that they would punch their previous selves in the face should they get the opportunity to meet them? < 1253839269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most people aren't that violent. :P < 1253839492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1578482 in case anyone cares about my more or less crappy bf interpreter in python. Wrote it as part of learning python. It is very suboptimal compared to optimising ones I wrote before in other languages. < 1253839503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night now → < 1253839521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you even gpl something that small. < 1253839522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trivial < 1253839531 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253839591 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'd assume so. < 1253839599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1253839601 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253839609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has enough useless fluff code to count, i guess. < 1253839627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you could GPL either the _parse or _run methods, though. < 1253839647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: hey you're in the uk, cool. < 1253839657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vague geographical buddies" < 1253839667 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :-D < 1253839710 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Newcastle? < 1253839980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: nearby. < 1253839985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, sort of.) < 1253839994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(enough that the geoip robots claim so) < 1253840030 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253840044 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only at York, so it's not too vague... It could be more vague. < 1253840068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Universe" < 1253840201 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Multiverse" < 1253840261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Member of the inverse of the empty set" < 1253840388 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Member of the inverse of every empty set" < 1253840443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: there are multiple? < 1253840463 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, it just sounded "cool" < 1253840467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253840677 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, I still can't get this stupid interpreter to work on anything more complex than a simple bf program < 1253840695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh, repaste it and i'll rewrite it to work or something :P < 1253840711 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253840718 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/RECmiwI5 < 1253840725 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm trying it with the bf program < 1253840730 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+++[>[-]>[-]<<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<-]<<[[>[>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]<[-]<<]>[<+>-]<# < 1253840736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is meant to do? < 1253840737 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should leave 3! in the first cell < 1253840740 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 6 < 1253840747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: you're not wrapping. < 1253840760 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapping? < 1253840767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-bit brainfuck (the most common) has 0-255 cells that wrap from 256->0 and -1->255, i.e. mod 256 arithmetic < 1253840774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. what fits in an 8-bit value like C's "char" < 1253840785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this also happens to be the range of ASCII, and thus has obvious advantages for . and , < 1253840786 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yea, I thought it best not to so it was easier to work with bigger numbers < 1253840792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: then expect programs to break. < 1253840802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as almost all non-trivial BF programs rely on 8-bit wrapping < 1253840808 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it to work with a bf2py compiler < 1253840814 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it relies on it not wrapping :-p < 1253840821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix that compiler, then :P < 1253840827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's almost certainly why it's breaking. < 1253840836 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253840846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: btw, your [ is slow < 1253840856 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be a good, simple, quick nested loop program to test it with, do you reckon? < 1253840864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i strongly recommend building a table of foo[position of '['] = position of ']' and foo[position of ']'] = position of '[' beforehand < 1253840867 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, premature optimization is the root of all trees ;-) < 1253840877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: there are two types of optimisation < 1253840885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :algorithmic, and the evil kind < 1253840892 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol :-) < 1253840901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the evil kind is a last resort, but not doing trivial, massively-helping algorithmic optimisations is a sin < 1253840938 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. But I would like to see it work before I start digging around in it's innards < 1253840951 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253840958 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, too much < 1253840961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes it simpler to make it work. < 1253840971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the "searching" technique is error prone; this can be done with just a stack < 1253840990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :] pops off the location of the [, assigns it to its own location; then assigns its own location to that grabbed [ location off the stack < 1253841001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [ is a simple stack push, and ] is a simple stack pop and two dictionary assignments. < 1253841014 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do this in preprocessing_program, yea? < 1253841016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each command, when running, can just do matching[pos] < 1253841023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: sure, I didn't really read your program too much :P < 1253841027 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :-D < 1253841030 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1253841091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: if you care, python thing: "class Bf_Interpreter():" should (a) be BFInterpreter (python standard), (b) omit the "()", (c) have "(object)" (new-style objects; default in python 3. you should basically always use them) < 1253841256 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know, PEP8 is *so* long. I am forever forgetting bits of style here there and forever :-( < 1253841277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, i've pretty much absorbed pep8 in one or two readings < 1253841294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't really do much pythoneering recently. < 1253841304 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a while it's just so dry I tend to start just skimming along it < 1253841319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make baby jesus^W^Wguido sad. < 1253841407 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baby jesus != guido? < 1253841410 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did this happen? < 1253841416 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought guido was the baby jesus < 1253841421 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops, drops, rolls < 1253841427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's simon peyton-jones. < 1253841452 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1253841462 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(afk) < 1253841471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(guido is mary) < 1253843488 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253843689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to right something incredibly evil/idiotic in C++ < 1253843814 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as using C++? < 1253843839 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253843840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is C++ itself evil or idiotic? < 1253843892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is making a heterogenous list < 1253843913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've told you why C++ is abominable quite a bit and you never listen, so why waste the effort? < 1253843943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when? < 1253843972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time you've mentioned it? < 1253844122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember :( < 1253844452 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253844762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Faith not supported by reason and empirical evidence is wishful thinking" --19.org, claiming to be Islamic < 1253844765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scratches head < 1253844985 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253845269 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253848896 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253849903 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253850993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253851887 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1253853067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think I have an idea as to why the discrepancy for the UltraBay battery thing < 1253853075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disabling the optical drive seems to save some battery life < 1253853079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And obviously with the UltraBay battery that's done < 1253853098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might be 1h30m + how much you save from disabling the optical drive < 1253855306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the highest PPI display I know of that isn't the ibm thingy: the 2048x1356 15" for thinkpads < 1253855312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :163.75 PPI < 1253855319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*squints* < 1253855630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd :D < 1253855683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the joke. < 1253855702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third box < 1253855706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it's just "Hur hur obvious thing everyone knows drawn badly" < 1253855713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am *so* shocked < 1253855724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect more from xkcd! not that i get it. < 1253855731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more, that is. not the joke.) < 1253855773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hereby declare ehird's sense of humor to have officially drowned in his cynicism. < 1253855798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd used to be a happy and funny aspect of my life, dammit. < 1253855852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/640/ was even a glimmer of hope. < 1253855867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, the art is inexplicably worse than usual, and that entire fourth panel ruins the entire thing and must be omitted < 1253855883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was funny, dammit (before I stopped trying to tie the third panel into the fourth to "get the joke") < 1253855894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was amusing! < 1253855895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ohhhhhhhhh no < 1253855901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're back to the same ol' xkcd. < 1253855903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as i was opening xkcd today i was all prepared to declare "damn _another_ stupid internet meme, someone tell him he's spending too much time on reddit". but then it _wasn't_. < 1253855919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small victories, eh. < 1253855973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh when i think about today's strip further, i think maybe your cynicism has infected him. hm. < 1253855992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT ANYHOW < 1253856071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i offer, for your comparison: http://xkcd.com/11/ http://xkcd.com/631/ < 1253856084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 620 comic gap is *not* enough to make that non-WTF < 1253856101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, not having the punch line in the last panel was consider new and refreshing back in the early '90s... < 1253856145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be less bad if it was just a continuation, and not an entirely irrelevant, confusing diversion that doesn't tie into the preceding frame and thus makes me search for The Real Punchline < 1253856179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but ... i thought the fourth panel fit in perfectly < 1253856206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, i may not have tried to analyse it intellectually. i'm not a joke murderer after all. < 1253856210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE BLINDED BY YOUR DEVOTION < 1253856211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253856278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATEV < 1253856349 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253856369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: have you ever considered adopting a new moniker. < 1253856396 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1253856413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am afraid that my jokes must then continue unabated < 1253856428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new computer :) < 1253856505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you poor widescreen slave. < 1253856550 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: indeed < 1253856564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1253856569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro < 1253856570 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*: good keyboard though < 1253856577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I can tell... < 1253856581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates firefox-kde integration < 1253856596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two bad pieces of software don't go great together? < 1253856597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my god. < 1253856611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox-gnome is pretty good I hear < 1253856627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on < 1253856629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... acceptable. epiphany is still nicer for the discerning gnomer < 1253856632 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1253856662 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253856681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb coppro < 1253856706 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is up with my font sizes... < 1253856716 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a dpi issue < 1253856720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, size 9 on this computer is == 12 on old one) < 1253856724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, dpi. < 1253856742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'd recommend leaving dpi=96 just for alignment crap, prolly < 1253856747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's really unreadable < 1253856769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everything on the web for instance pretty much assumes 96ppi so you get freakishly small images along regular text... < 1253856809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... what was that firefox theme called? < 1253856811 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb again < 1253856812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253857300 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253857302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the T60 and T60p are based off of the intel socket M processors. no matter how much memory you install in these thinkpads, only 3GB will be addressable regardless of operating system used. this is a physical limitation and there is absolutely no workaround." < 1253857304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woe! < 1253857361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so fonts are good in CZ now < 1253857367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Google page text is tiny :/ < 1253857369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooooooooooooooooooooe. < 1253857381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: about:config or deal with it. < 1253857390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what you get into when you buy a high-ppi screen. < 1253857398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, all fonts < 1253857407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, eh? < 1253857409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope what < 1253857416 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the weird bit < 1253857420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS fonts are readable-size < 1253857429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, window titles and such < 1253857431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because x11 autodetected your display's ppi. < 1253857437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox ignores all that. < 1253857439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's shit. < 1253857442 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1253857449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have DPI-forcing on! < 1253857458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epiphany powah* < 1253857468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck yeah, integratin' into my environment 'n shit < 1253857477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*official epiphany gangsta sign* < 1253857578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets font size to 16 and things look sane < 1253857584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: bad doggy. < 1253857591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sites that do font-size: foopx; will break. < 1253857601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about:config and set yerself some ppi if you want it to work < 1253857612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I suggest you get used to it, though, unless you really like freakishly-tiny images < 1253857697 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has fiddled with font sizes and is now satisfied < 1253857713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will work for google, which uses relative font sizes. < 1253857721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so for the 90% of sites that set font size absolutely. < 1253857734 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253857741 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, whatever < 1253857752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get used to it < 1253857772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more pixels are alas not objectively better in the current situation < 1253857789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you want knock the zoom up, so that images and text are sized up < 1253857795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit pixelated ofc < 1253857799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuk < 1253857828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember his 6th rss feed on the toolbar < 1253858245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253858269 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253858288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1253858338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear xchat-gnome: i really don't need a server lag indicator in that otherwise-empty status bar < 1253858962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253859043 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253859079 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can low-level FPGA programming be done? < 1253859084 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to do? < 1253859122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1253859124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so? < 1253859129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that all FPGA programming? < 1253859160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean *really* low-level, like, not Verilog or VHDL, but just programming each gate individually manually by hand. < 1253859177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use that subset of Verilog/VHDL. < 1253859184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure they have such things at the lowest layer. < 1253859188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, why? < 1253859192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a world of pain. < 1253859283 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to learn how each gates works individually, and then I can write macros in Forth. < 1253859303 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, each macro can be a subroutine to write stuff into memory or into a file, and then loads the FPGA < 1253859315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why do people think legalizing drugs is The Answer? I thought The Answer was 42." -- some quote from I don't know what (but it can be found in my game ASCMZXTO.MZX) < 1253859319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to invent a replacement for electricity too because you didn't write it? :P < 1253859329 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No. < 1253859332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1253859335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be fun. < 1253859340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magnetic computer. < 1253859360 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is a interesting idea. Maybe a esolang can be made about magnetic computer. < 1253859368 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I (or someone else) can add it to the idea list < 1253859388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Optical computer, air-based computer (think little balls pushed by fans) < 1253859404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think the latter can be TC; the former might be with quantumly stuff. < 1253859413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are also interesting idea. < 1253859414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magnetic computers probably can be TC (assuming infinite space) < 1253859422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: *ideas btw < 1253859442 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravity computer has already been done in esolangs. < 1253859492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gravity's boring. < 1253859493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253859585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, a magnetic computer seems to be the most obvious idea to work out of all of those. < 1253859608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really think of much you could do with crossing lasers, and the air doesn't count; you need electricity for the fans. < 1253859631 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1253859637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a magnetic computer seems simple: you can do chain reactions, and have magnets stay in states stably, plus you can keep them out of equilibrium. < 1253859649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it'd look cool. < 1253859687 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think it would be interesting to make. < 1253859784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it couldn't go perpetually though, could it? < 1253859789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to set it off every so often < 1253859792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, obviously < 1253859860 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you make a esolang you could assume it is automatically set it off < 1253859864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253859874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think for the basic shape of the computer it should be mounted on the exterior of a cylinder... < 1253859880 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But an interpreter on a standard computer might have both option, one for manual and one for automatic < 1253859880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way with weights you can make it turn < 1253859887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and interact with stationary things to the side of it < 1253859892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on its turn state < 1253859894 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, more annoyances: the mute button operates in hardware :( < 1253859905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so? < 1253859909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no need for an option < 1253859915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody wants to sit there hitting "power" < 1253859939 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so I can't a) unmute by pressing it again (you have to use up/down for that) b) quickly check to see if I'm muted < 1253859953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: use another button < 1253859972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1253860003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+F12 or something < 1253860010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or heck, Windows+F12 < 1253860013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero conflicts < 1253860018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much work < 1253860024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whiner :P < 1253860024 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1253860031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pot kettle black!) < 1253860039 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... found a solutio < 1253860043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mute, for what? Please tell me what you are muting? < 1253860048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: his laptop. < 1253860049 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sound < 1253860071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :muting solutio for magnetic computers | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1253860097 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use the Proprietary BloatWare(tm) Launch(r) Key(tm), which is right next to the volume control < 1253860120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i hear that the thinkvantage stuff isn't too terrible, actually. < 1253860127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a whole key for it is ridiculous < 1253860133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, just hax the kb :) < 1253860217 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just imagines the support call for that < 1253860268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you call the presumably useless chinese support team anyway :P < 1253860297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they've been great so far. They've told me that Lenovo's idea of a windows install disk is called a disk reimage < 1253860321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some definition of great. < 1253860331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hello. yes, our product sucks. thanks!" < 1253860334 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1253860355 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION enjoys the conversation when he tries to return it < 1253860363 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not) < 1253860364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return what, the laptop? < 1253860367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Windows < 1253860369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1253860388 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be even tougher because I had to start it to find out they had no useful reinstall disk, in theory accepting the agreement < 1253860388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm pretty sure the get-the-windows-tax-back stuff only works if you sue people like that guy. < 1253860398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to explain to them how mistake works in contract law < 1253860410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you don't expect all that to work do you < 1253860420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *did* agree to purchase a notebook with windows... < 1253860431 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the license agreement specifically says you can refund it < 1253860439 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible, just tricky < 1253860444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but the two contracts disagree < 1253860453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implicit one to lenovo and the one with microsoft < 1253860464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is the far more visible one, it probably trumps the latter. < 1253860491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : INCL-ONCE IF BEGIN CHAR 0= UNTIL ELSE 1 CONSTANT THEN ; < 1253860511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abbreviation? in my forth words? < 1253860513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tut tut. < 1253860523 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed I'd get a useful method of install < 1253860523 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm a minor (whee!) < 1253860539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what does being a minor have to do with anything? < 1253860544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Change it if you don't like it! < 1253860546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: contracts can't bind me! < 1253860562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: congratulations, you've never bought anything legally in your life. < 1253860579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every company has given you something out of the goodness of your heart after you gave them money < 1253860581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they still exist. I just can't be held to them... you can't either < 1253860599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're still bound by them, you just can't be dinged for not following them. < 1253860620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the legal term is 'voidable at the minor's option' < 1253860628 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or somesuch < 1253860633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"why no officer, please do note that I violated the windows EULA" < 1253860642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i am a broken man" < 1253860646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no. you're 12" < 1253860647 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253860647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"broken" < 1253860650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"man" < 1253860794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes an email to MS explaining that I void the license agreement. < 1253860820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: your error is in believing the law's text has any relevance to the Law. :P < 1253860837 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Most of it is common law, actually < 1253860844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, by voiding it you also void the clause that lets you get a refund... < 1253860853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that clause in lenovo's? < 1253860874 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, it's part of the agreement prior to you agreeing to it < 1253860878 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird, I know < 1253860897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit isn't gonna work btw < 1253860900 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter, if part of it is voided, you cannot get a refund either in case they didn't allow that in the voiding process of the contract license itself. < 1253860905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it probably would if you weren't a minor, but they'll just disregard you as a kiddie. < 1253860951 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I believe it's actually two separate contracts on the same text < 1253860961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :licensing agreements are weird in any case < 1253860974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EULAs have never been ruled to be valid < 1253860978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is all just muddier and muddier. < 1253860980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: O. Really? But, they are bound together though, isn't it? < 1253860986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and they have been ruled to be invalid in some places) < 1253861028 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253861035 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EULAs may not be valid, but the refund still wouldn't be allowed if the rest of the contract that allowed you to get the refund has been violated, anyways. But, if the refund is a store refund instead, the refund might still be allowed. < 1253861039 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I'm not quite sure. < 1253861053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably doesn't have a lot to do with the EULA, however. < 1253861073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of this he's going to get like $50 for >$50 worth in time < 1253861077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably phone bills < 1253861078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1253861087 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone here do ANSI screen art? < 1253861158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm the sata in the t60(p) is 1.5 Gbit. < 1253861166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing I don't care about throughput < 1253861177 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1253861211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latest bios hacking work seems to get like a bit over 3.5GiB memory out of it... < 1253861217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is acceptable i guess < 1253861232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1.5Gb < 1253861303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mb = 1 000 000 bits. Mib = 1 024 000 bits. MB = 1 000 000 bytes. MiB = 1 024 000 bytes. < 1253861311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah, case-differing units. < 1253861388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024000 is a very strange choice; are you sure you don't want 1048576 instead? < 1253861407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, oops < 1253861412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Er, oops. < 1253861429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mb = 1 000 000 bits. Mib = 1 048 576 bits. MB = 1 000 000 bytes. MiB = 1 048 576 bytes. < 1253861486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, my internet connection is 8Mb/s, and I get about 800KiB/s in practice. < 1253861492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Still on the fence about KiB vs kiB.) < 1253861692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, I'm getting tired of "lol linux is unusable" crap. < 1253861875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam subject: "Magic berry that will make you look like a princess." Er. < 1253861887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I want to be the prettiest princess around. < 1253861956 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYS HOWS IT GOIN < 1253861962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :princessly. < 1253861980 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ofcourse < 1253861988 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're pretty princessish in general < 1253862033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, fizzie is. < 1253862041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is the fizziest. fizzlest. < 1253862048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzcess. < 1253862096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit fizzcessive, yes. < 1253862106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzcest. < 1253862430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's xkcd: at least an original expression of an only-slightly-interesting thing everyone knows/ < 1253862431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1253862432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope! < 1253862433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=974#comic < 1253862769 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-hvyojudbefvrypuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253863066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Crops_Kansas_AST_20010624.jpg?crop ;; this looks so unreal. backgrounded! < 1253863236 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does your face < 1253863250 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horribly inefficient technology anyways < 1253863289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: what, my face? < 1253863325 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :center-pivot irrigation < 1253863348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she irrigated. using a center pivot. < 1253863353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's pretty. < 1253863366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the tilting < 1253863469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haha, your face, it's so inefficient!" has to be one of the strangest insults. < 1253863481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know right < 1253863563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with tiling window managers is I never really get to see my background image. < 1253863583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny. that's the problem i have with spawning windows like there's no tomorrow. < 1253863589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why close when you can cover/ < 1253863592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*why close when you can cover? < 1253863601 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only uses 78% of available land < 1253863620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your face uses 78% of available land too, but I don't see anybody calling that too little. < 1253863637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, shut up, it makes pretty patterns. < 1253864031 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitamo < 1253864081 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@80.13.78.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253864086 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that arranging the circle hexagonally doesn't do any better than the square way < 1253864087 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd < 1253864125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractal crops. < 1253864128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite circles < 1253864153 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love making these drawings with a compass < 1253864280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange; hexagonal packing should be denser than square: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CirclePacking.html < 1253864320 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253864325 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1253864358 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just made some drawings and figured they were equal < 1253864370 0 :Ilari_!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253864409 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reconnecting" < 1253864417 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1253864451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253864562 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with both you can fit 1 unit circle inside each unit square < 1253864881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think the hexagonal packing even looks obviously denser: both have the same distance between circles in one row, but in hexagonal packing the rows are closer together. (Alternatively; if you draw that unit square around each circle, in square packing there's no overlap, while in hexagonal packing there is.) < 1253865599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253865600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253865612 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draw a unit square through half of one of the circles, and the centers of two of it neighbors < 1253865637 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get 1 unit circle's area in 1 unit square < 1253865668 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253865762 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap < 1253865765 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a rectangle < 1253865801 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind :P < 1253865843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurf durf < 1253865878 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to figuring out what the fraction is < 1253867128 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sphere packing in higher dimensions is pretty interesting stuff < 1253867322 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253867401 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still haven't gotten it... < 1253868112 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253868580 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253868986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fucking hell, Tk on X11. < 1253868997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has a thing more hideous existed. < 1253870281 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalala < 1253870515 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1643#comic < 1253870541 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be humorous if we werent already saturated with so many signals 24/7 < 1253870735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that supposed to mean < 1253870738 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-169-194.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253870769 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253870784 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radio signals, tv signals, cell phone signals, wifi signals, etc etc etc < 1253870790 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all permeate the human body < 1253870802 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're in any place that gets any of those < 1253870812 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your body has them streaming through you all the time < 1253870829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur < 1253870831 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1253870834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wasn't in some way inaccurate < 1253870837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wouldn't call it a comic < 1253870841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd call it a textbook < 1253870841 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253870843 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1253870845 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not inaccurate < 1253870869 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just oblivious to the fact that its presuppositions arent correct! < 1253870896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure mr weiner will be interested in your complaint < 1253870927 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure he would < 1253870958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance augur < 1253870958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1647#comic < 1253870961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would never happen < 1253870966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore it is not funny < 1253870972 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1253870985 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1253870987 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1253870989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its presuppositions, so to speak < 1253870991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't correct. < 1253870992 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not about what would or wouldnt happen < 1253871003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1253871009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s about the mismatch of comic reality : real reality < 1253871015 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, except thats the problem < 1253871024 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there IS no mismatch in the comic i linked to < 1253871026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called humour < 1253871036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: dude, stfu. < 1253871037 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats precisely my point < 1253871050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny kay < 1253871061 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k. < 1253871381 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1253871397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im bored. < 1253872886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1253872928 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im never bored, but thats because im in a state of constant low grade panic over the statistical arguments for the relatively short expected lifetime of a technological civilization from a cosmological perspective < 1253872984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really matter if you don't survive. < 1253873031 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my selfish genes want to transmit their information content into the future though, and the memetic equivalents that i perceive as my value structures want beethoven's music to still be played in 100 billion years < 1253873086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems likely to me that a technological civilization can either undergo a technological singularity, and survive, or collapse < 1253873102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say, singularity or bunk! < 1253873105 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the evidence from looking at the universe is pretty discouraging < 1253873140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if we have a singularity it'll be almost certain that we make music many orders of a magnitude better than beethoven very quickly < 1253873144 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if civilizations could actually stay on the energy manipulation and population curve that weve been on, there would be multiple 'god class' civilizations in the observable universe, probably < 1253873152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so that's probably not conductive to your goal < 1253873170 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice, i for one welcome our artificially intelligent compositional overlords creating algorithmic music of heart stopping beauty < 1253873189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically those overlords would be, um, us. < 1253873228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, civilization is basically made up of idiots because people are idiots. < 1253873260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a singularity is probably the only even vaguely easy way to rapidly self-improve our intelligence, and thus become less idiotic < 1253873272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the "singularity or bust" theory isn't very arbitrary < 1253873280 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only relatively speaking, compared to the average lobster we are pretty smart, and a lobster is a genius compared with a hydrogen molecule < 1253873287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more specifically we need the unidioticness to manage and control resources < 1253873299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything beyond that is mostly irrelevant as far as maintaining a society goes. although culture helps. < 1253873319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: yah, but lobsters don't cover a planet and then start to destroy it without coming up with a way to get off it. < 1253873324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too stupid to be dangerous. < 1253873327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're too stupid not to be. < 1253873329 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah despite my psychological affinity for cultural productions like music i agree that we need fewere musicians and more energy researchers, etc < 1253873341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or AI researchers :P < 1253873346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if in doubt, offload the problem!" < 1253873378 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we already have emergent AI in the real world, we just dont realize it because its operating at a higher hierarchical organizational scale than human individuals < 1253873396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we have what could suggest future cognitive structures < 1253873404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it just isn't there yet < 1253873412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, it's dumber than a rock < 1253873422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, ants make up a smart ant colony < 1253873434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ants aren't actively stupid causing them to work against the colony < 1253873438 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im kind of a minimalist/operationalist when it comes to AI so from my perspective weve had emergent artificial intelligences embedded within our symbol systems on higher levels for a long time < 1253873442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just not clever enough to achieve things themselves < 1253873453 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that it has been incredibly accelerated due to the digital revolution < 1253873454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we, however, are dumb enough to be actively hostile, intentional or not, to the hivemind < 1253873485 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i have a pretty perverse belief that we should be actively fighting the hivemind because the emergent entity has interests that our contrary to ours as individuals < 1253873492 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are contrary < 1253873517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: that's the thing, isn't it: it's kind of hard to make a hivemind Friendly AI < 1253873524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't exactly program it at the top level... < 1253873544 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why you better program the Three Laws of Robotics into your new OS < 1253873572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: please say you just joked < 1253873584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am tired of people thinking the three laws are suitable or helpful in any way :( < 1253873594 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the 3 laws are not algorithmically formulatable its obviously a joke < 1253873618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're really terrible laws; evil is perfectly possible with them and it inhibits much good < 1253873681 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you implying that the pop cultural versions of classic sci-fi concepts are not actually a suitable organizational framework for the society of the future? < 1253873698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't believe that things not too abstracted from that have actually been said in seriousness, would you. < 1253873701 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a jedi knight in training whos planning on attending starfleet academy soon and then going to work for the gray lensmen, i am upset < 1253873709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, oh snap < 1253873722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i would have used "deeply offended" instead of "upset" though) < 1253873746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: another common idiocy - "Strong AI? Haven't you ever seen The Terminator?" < 1253873754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that piece of fiction is so... accurate? true? < 1253873827 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already suspect you of being an AI agent ehird, my superiors in the Time Corps are linked in and monitoring this channel < 1253873851 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your disinformation campaign wont succeed, weve beaten you before - IN THE FUTURE < 1253873857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a hivemind with exactly one mind < 1253873876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...give or take an internet and a sphere of people < 1253873889 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i actually believe the human race has already lost control, since the late 1800s or so < 1253873897 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didnt even need digital tech to do it < 1253873939 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i place the time of transition of society run for human beings to society run on the behalf of the emergent structures controlling it to occur at the time of mechanical clock synchronization by the railroads, pretty much < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if post-singularity societies sit around, going < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're improving every planck time < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is really boring, a huge vast expanse of all uh < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 seconds < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've been in this thing < 1253874023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when do we get to the next thing < 1253874024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the next thing happens to be using time as an additional spatial dimension to improve even faster :-P) < 1253874059 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read accelerando by charlie stross? available under open source license and the best novel i know of inspired by singularity ideas < 1253874083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1253874091 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think his hypothesis that matrioshka brain civilizations are too bound to their star to undertake interstellar travel might actually be correct < 1253874099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone putting any kind of restriction on their work clearly isn't a real singularitarian though :P < 1253874102 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a nice resolution of the fermi paradox < 1253874123 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, the modern singularity people dont seem to view it in the old fashioned mckenna way anymore that much < 1253874133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1253874142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what inferrences are you making from my line < 1253874143 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well, gotta give some background on this < 1253874144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inferences < 1253874147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1253874151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you get from < 1253874156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyone putting any kind of restriction on their work clearly isn't a real singularitarian though :P < 1253874157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to < 1253874161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, the modern singularity people dont seem to view it in the old fashioned mckenna way anymore that much < 1253874165 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah let me try to unpack a bit < 1253874195 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first contact with the idea of technological singularity was via robert anton wilson when i was a teenager back in the 80s, in his book 'cosmic trigger' < 1253874215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I meant it was that any society-enforce restrictions on digital information at all is inherently antithetical to the singularity < 1253874218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enforced < 1253874256 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his reference was the mckenna brothers who thought technological change would accelerate to the point where we basically became godlike intelligences (he also linked it to that mayan calendar bullshit long before it became pop cultural, i never expected that shit to make it mainstream) < 1253874270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Colin Percival of FreeBSD fame entered university at 13. < 1253874303 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the modern formulation of singularity theory backs off from claims like 'achieving godlikeness' with that wishy-washy 'singularity is the point at which technology causes the future to be unpredictable on the basis of what has gone before' < 1253874317 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a nice kind of mathematically/relativistically inspired way of putting it i guess, but its a non-claim really < 1253874318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's multiple branches of singularity theory, fwiw. < 1253874327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very hard to predict anything by its very nature. < 1253874378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think the most likely way for it to happen (as a traditional, separate-AI singularity) is: AI starts up, takes over everything, develops mind uploading, offers it, the poor sods who don't want their mind uploaded are SOL < 1253874406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I imagine that totally self-improving the brain without limit is a harder to develop with a physical brain than both developing mind uploading and self-improvement software working in digital.) < 1253874428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by SOL I mean exactly the same as before :P < 1253874438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly including the religious as they waddle around waiting for god to come defeat this evil satan. < 1253874487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "massively self-improved uploaded minds" is pretty close to "achieving godliness in the fabric of the cosmos", but it's less bullshitty. < 1253874487 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant really hypothesize too well without an answer to the question of whether or not the informational content and functioning of the brain can be accurately simulated with significant abstraction away from the wetware < 1253874502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it can't be, let us change it so it can. < 1253874507 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a lot of the old old fashioned singularity stuff was based much more on energy manipulation than on information processing < 1253874536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's easier to flip a bit than to mess with a gooey blob, so even if it can't be the uploading is a plus. < 1253874536 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old curves they traced were tracing the amount of mass-energy that could be manipulated technologically < 1253874538 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saying those curves extrapolated to galaxy-scaled rebuilding and restructuring pretty soon < 1253874557 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats mostly been abandoned in favor of the much more sensible AI based scenarios < 1253874569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, throughout the whole singularity meme, Vernor Vinge, its originator, has seemed to kept one of the levellest heads about it. < 1253874573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to have kept < 1253874591 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont consider him the originator, i would say it goes back to at least Teilhard de Chardin < 1253874608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: every idea has predecessors < 1253874651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he wrote the piece that named it, defined it as one single idea and predicted things about it < 1253874651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is widely credited with originating it < 1253874651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough for me < 1253874722 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not good enough for me, but i guess its a semantic issue, i really think the exact concept of the singularity was well expressed by the mckenna brothers in the 70s < 1253874755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the basic concept is relatively obvious, I'd say. but without Vinge, any discussions about it would look very, very different than they do today. < 1253874794 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i dont think it would have made it out of the cult/esoteric circuit probably < 1253874806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it arguably hasn't. < 1253874839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact when thinking about the singularity I often have to step back and go "wait, wait, like *everyone* considers this seriously crazy. am I thinking sanely about this?" < 1253874846 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i cant really assess, im honestly not part of my society so i have no clue whats mainstream < 1253874863 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather 'my society' is an extremely nonstandard subset < 1253874886 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this channel for instance is a reference to me for 'what other people think about things' < 1253874895 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you/we are probably atypical, statistically < 1253874919 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when i talk to other other people, you get to be the hand-wavy 'everyone says' < 1253874930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, me in particular? < 1253874948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I've heard of this Charles Stross' novels before. < 1253874951 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, not specially-specifically, but probably the next time im talking to person Y about tech singularity, ill say < 1253874963 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"everyone says vernor vinge is the most important figure in the modern construction of the concept < 1253874973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1253874974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask wikipedia < 1253874978 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1253874981 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god people < 1253874983 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be quiet < 1253874988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: this is a channel for talking. < 1253874993 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its not < 1253874995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can gtfo if you'd prefer silence < 1253874996 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not for talking < 1253874998 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all < 1253875010 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont make me rape you, ehird < 1253875014 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONT MAKE ME < 1253875026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you rape an immortal uploaded mind. < 1253875029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't even make any sense. < 1253875034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, that's confidential < 1253875034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1253875035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1253875036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1253875037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo < 1253875039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't rape me :| < 1253875074 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i delight in the knowledge that i probably just broke like 10 pretty serious laws < 1253875095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure joking "don't make me rape you" to a 14 year old over the internet isn't illegal. < 1253875100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe in the usa. < 1253875101 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too, im glad its not just me - so whats your tip for getting blood off a chainsaw? < 1253875106 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably is in the US < 1253875116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i think you'll have to ask hans reiser[1] < 1253875125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/so-i-married-a-kernel-programmer < 1253875164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like how the marquee there doesn't blink nowadays because of stupid anti-blink fascist browsers :( < 1253875167 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive decided i really need to set up a surveillance system to monitor myself, so i can prove im not a terrorist or murderer < 1253875207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that will be necessary. < 1253875240 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i fit every profile of sociopathic unabomber types, i really want to document what im doing and when so when somebody in my town does something evil and the computer systems flag me as a statistical match for the profile, i can document myself < 1253875271 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which browser ignores ? :( < 1253875274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it that people have such an overinflated opinion of how uncommon they are. :) < 1253875277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: gecko. < 1253875281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think webkit < 1253875295 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure it's not just browser.blink_allowed = false? < 1253875305 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it worked by default. < 1253875324 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually its the commonality thats the problem, the vast proportion of false positives < 1253875328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's enabled by default. < 1253875333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: well not in epiphany at least < 1253875334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least < 1253875336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu's gecko < 1253875370 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nested marquees rock. < 1253875386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: here's an aspect of the unabomber you don't (presumably) fit: you don't mail bomb people < 1253875391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: they're pretty. < 1253875415 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253875523 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, which is why it can only be beneficial to me to document what im doing < 1253875529 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of a pascal's wager type thing < 1253875540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a little over-paranoid < 1253875543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better things to do with your time < 1253875554 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the other stuff i do with my time is plan 9 programming, are you sure? < 1253875570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that at least is possibly amusing to someone other than yourself :P < 1253875644 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given what we know (and i mean the factual stuff that has been publicly announced/admitted, not the crazy tinfoil hat stuff) about data collection and computerized analysis, a certain concern over how you are going to look from a statistical point of view seems to me to be warranted < 1253875673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chill, man :| < 1253876175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253876190 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253876561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh and the internet isnt science, its tech. < 1253876561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dick head" --YouTube comments < 1253876720 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People around here tend to put cartoon printouts in their office doors; if I had my own room, instead of this shared thing, I'd probably put the first row of http://dresdencodak.com/2009/09/22/caveman-science-fiction/ up. It describes our research well. < 1253876865 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253877177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i could like, solder the t60(p) mobo to make it support the full 4gb of ram :) < 1253877288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Implications of the Turing completeness of reaction-diffusion models, informed by GPGPU simulations on an XBox 360: Cardiac arrhythmias, re-entry and the Halting problem" < 1253877295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i so appreciate my heart like 10x more now < 1253877299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the xbox 360. < 1253877317 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, im googling that text to find out wtf this is < 1253877364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://igoro.com/archive/human-heart-is-a-turing-machine-research-on-xbox-360-shows-wait-what/ layman's explanation < 1253877370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/79271/turing.pdf peedy eff < 1253877374 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found teh article < 1253877384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it means our hearts are turing complete or something. < 1253877389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, presumably with finite memory. < 1253877451 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument is fascinating, it seems to rest on the idea that turing completeness is a barrier to predictability due to the halting problem, but i need to read this in detail because that basic argument seems a bit specious to me < 1253877462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION spurts liquid out of mouth < 1253877467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: you read the whole paper that quickly? < 1253877481 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, thats basically the abstract... < 1253877498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253877527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you'll have to understand cardiology, xbox 360 optimisation, differential equations, turing completeness and shading languages < 1253877528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Based on his(?) paper-reading speed, I suspect one of those immortal uploaded minds. < 1253877530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck < 1253877553 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have a decent grasp on about 50% of that stuff < 1253877605 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :differential equations are pretty easy to *understand* but they are challenging to 'work with' -fortunately when you are just reading the paper the paper's authors have done that stuff for you < 1253877641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a fairly standard way of doing comments in BF." ;; why isn't everyone who says such things in here already? :P < 1253877745 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there is a weird circularity about this paper < 1253877753 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-ybnfdrekkjiiyweu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253877772 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is that what is being studied for turing completeness is the computational model of reaction diffusion < 1253877818 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could make an argument that just because the computer model you create is turing complete, that doesnt necessarily prove anything fundamental about the physical system being modeled, unless you can prove they are fully isometric, which of course isnt possible with any squishy biological systems < 1253877831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP RUINING MY FANTASTISE < 1253877835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FANTASIES < 1253877836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253877846 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this involves fluid dynamics, you are instantly in the domain of the navier-stokes equations to begin with, and those arent even proved non-singular, thats one of the big prizes < 1253877849 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this is a cool paper < 1253877853 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just thought-provoked by it < 1253877856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway we clearly just need to fuck with someone's heart to see if it works. < 1253877936 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really though - hmm...since turing completeness is so minimal...i mean cant all physical systems 'do arithmetic' so to speak? ive seen this topic addressed elsewhere actually, i wonder if these guys...lemme check their citations < 1253878003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.linusakesson.net/files/lft_craft.avi this is great < 1253878019 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this bibliography is great, you see a citation for 4 dudes paper 'real-time memory on an excitable field' and the next citation is 'prince of persia', ubisoft < 1253878076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253878176 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this paper is great, but i think their final conclusion based on the halting problem is totally incorrect < 1253878196 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument is technically correct but they ignore something all programmers should know < 1253878223 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because the halting problem is theoretically indecidable algorithmically and in general doesnt mean that you cant actually answer it in practice for a huge number of programs... < 1253878233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still damn hard < 1253878253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how did the C64 address 64K of RAM? 8 bits = 0.25KiB < 1253878261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it used a larger memory bus thingy. < 1253878276 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are saying that because what goes on in the heart is a superset of a utm, the goal of predicting arythmias and stuff like that runs into the halting problem < 1253878290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit, the state is finite and probably small < 1253878291 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is true as far as it goes, but that doesnt go very far < 1253878296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just check to see if it repeats :P < 1253878348 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think the fact is that godel and turing type 'problem cases' are very much shown to be atypical of 'generic' situations for the most part < 1253878384 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the same reason that a working programmer isnt 'hung up' by the halting problem in doing their coding, i doubt working cardiologists or heart researchers will be stuck because of the turing completenesss < 1253878398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no duh < 1253878406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know about the c64? < 1253878431 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from hands on experience yes, but not too much technically despite childhood enthusiasms < 1253878452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's still damn hard < 1253878452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, how did the C64 address 64K of RAM? 8 bits = 0.25KiB < 1253878452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess it used a larger memory bus thingy. < 1253878486 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were quite a few tricks and hacks used in all that old old pc hardware < 1253878505 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember my family's apple ][ had an expansion board that let it use 128k in some weird bank switched mode < 1253878507 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253878579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe they just addressed by memory-value, where memory-value = 16 bits < 1253878588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt it though, prolly just a different-sized memory bus < 1253878643 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heres some delicious nostalgia http://sta.c64.org/cbm64mem.html < 1253878695 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i well remember doing direct memory poking to operate the sid chip for audio sltuff < 1253878709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets itchy to write a proper multitasking OS for the c64 < 1253878740 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im pretty sure the hobbyist magazines would print musical themes in the form of poke sequences < 1253878799 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the gui os for c64, um geos i think? < 1253878817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or contiki. :P < 1253878838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik no c64 OSes try to do what windows did for dos; multiplex "native" apps < 1253878842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that's ridiculously hard < 1253878879 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id like to see a c64 based hypervisor for virtualized vic20s and PETs < 1253878891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hypervisors! < 1253878893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native speed baby < 1253878895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native hardware < 1253879449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C64 has a 16 bits wide address bus, yes. < 1253879485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame < 1253879512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The registers are only 8 bits wide, though. There's a couple of different addressing modes there. < 1253879532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real men use 10-bit architectures < 1253879541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's divisible by two, it's a whole kilo of ram, what else do you fucking need < 1253879623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many instructions support absolute addressing, with a two-byte address following the one-byte opcode; and then there are two indirect modes that read a two-byte pointer from the zero page (memory locations 0..255) and use that. < 1253879636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you know what, use a fucking 9-bit architecture and have a separate ROM < 1253879637 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253879640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to store the program in < 1253879647 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253879665 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added one in anarchy golf, I hope there is not a mistake. < 1253879707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only issue is that I have no idea what I'm meant to do :P < 1253879710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still quite a lot of kludgery in the C16. The video chip (VIC-II) has only 14 address bits, and the top two bits are generated by (iirc) two outputs from the CIA chip. < 1253879723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/16/64/ < 1253879724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hell with the SID < 1253879725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's, like < 1253879730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unneeded complexity < 1253879730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1253879755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly there's probably a lot kludgery in the C16 too, but I've never used one. < 1253879836 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-169-194.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253879846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C16 looks like a target for demoscenery < 1253879900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very popular; all the action happens on the VIC-20 and C64. < 1253879906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.commodore16.com/index.php/component/content/article/49-how-to/327-creating-amazing-c16plus-4-images.html < 1253879911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can do more colours than the C64. < 1253880057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No sprites, though. (There's been quite a lot of trickery involving the VIC-II sprites, since they can be used to generate interrupts.) < 1253880112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't enough fun C64-era computers < 1253880115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "more colours without flickering" would probably be more accurate; people do the "get a mixed colour by alternating a pixel between two colours every frame" stuff on the C64. < 1253880136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you could flicker this too. < 1253880171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but why on earth would you want more than 121 colours? < 1253880268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could almost run monkey island's DOS version with 242 colours. < 1253880321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and DOS. < 1253880666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A still image is going to be probably all you can manage with the full palette, anyway; the whole FLI mess is pretty demanding of resources. (The standard multicolor mode only lets you use a four-color palette -- of which one is the global background color -- in each 4x8-pixel cell of the 160x200 multicolor mode.) < 1253880741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder how many FPS you can get. < 1253880765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use properties of the eye to keep a certain colour longer than an exaggerated blink, to try and overcome the low FPS. < 1253880921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the frame-flicker-color-mixing thing on the C64 has another upside: you can use the hardware scrolling register to shift the second image vertically by half a pixel (the 160x200 multicolor mode pixels are built out of two 320x200 pixels) so you get sort-of 320x200 resolution too. Except that color of a single pixel in frame A is then mixed with the right and left halves of two pixels in frame B. < 1253880932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/vertically/horizontally/ < 1253880942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am a thinko today.) < 1253881035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Take that, and hook a C64 up to an LCD. < 1253881038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You now have: < 1253881041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) subpixels < 1253881046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) the most confusing display technology ever < 1253881197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the C128 had a digital video-out for the second graphics chipset; in 1985, quite a bit before the proliferation of DVI. (Okay, so it's not that impressive when you consider that the EGA monitor connector was digital too.) < 1253881231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, with that image-shifting plus the weird pixel situation, subpixels are just going to make it even more confusing. < 1253881250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use it to make something shake really flickery, right? Like, only shaking one pixel, but shaking many subpixels. So fluider. < 1253881428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's your favourite 8-bit computer? < 1253881453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to go with the C128, since it's the only one I actually own. < 1253881467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty high-end as far as these things go, though. < 1253881474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really count if it's easier now, does it. < 1253881483 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vote apple ][ for the best overall software library < 1253881497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: i mean more from a purist point of view < 1253881509 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh tech wise you mean? design etc? < 1253881509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not from is it good as much as nostalgia, but not due to the software base < 1253881519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like "oh well I like the apple ][ a lot." < 1253881597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C128 doesn't really make things much "easier" w.r.t. C64 (which I guess is a reasonably high-end computer already); about the only thing it's got going is double the memory size, and even so only half of it is addressable at any one time. < 1253881655 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me the later revisions on the c64 platform didnt quite do enough to make them very exciting < 1253881655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too much memory. you could even forget about compact spacing. < 1253881690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the unexpanded VIC-20 (about 4K of RAM) has a certain charm too. < 1253881706 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah the vic and even the pet are great < 1253881710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the PET is so incredibly sci-fi. < 1253881713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Commodore_PET2001.jpg < 1253881722 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had those in my elementary school and we made fun of them < 1253881759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The VIC-20 is basically a retarded C64, isn't it? < 1253881763 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe i still own an original sherlock holmes fanfic i wrote as a kid that was done on a PET and printed, and its notable because the 'hang down' characters dont work < 1253881767 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of, but it was earlier < 1253881770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That PET looks sexually retro. < 1253881777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sextro. < 1253881809 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you can just see the girl with the bullet bra and beehive hairdo wearing tight white vinyl clothes and hear the 70s jazz-funk soundtrack < 1253881819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1253881822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the PET even have graphics mode? < 1253881845 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i think all the 'graphics' were done with graphical text characters, ascii art style < 1253881854 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they made special character set for doin graphics with little diagonal lines etc < 1253881914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame. it looks really sweet, but you can't really have a fun demo time without gfx < 1253881919 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that character set carried through to the c64 even < 1253881927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.atariarchives.org/cgp/images/img188-1.JPG < 1253881929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this then eh < 1253881937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This book shows you how to create your own video graphics on the new personal computers being sold across the country. It is oriented toward the Radio Shack TRS-80, the Commodore PET 2001, and the Apple II home computers, and it is geared to the user who wants to know the concepts and techniques for drawing pictures, making graphs and charts, animating shapes and objects, creating mandalas and dazzlers, and just about any application of the visual arts tha < 1253881938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t you can imagine. < 1253881983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_CBM-II < 1253881991 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia seems to think the pet couldnt bitmap < 1253882001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically speaking the VIC-20 does not have a "graphics mode" either, but you can point the character generator at RAM memory and redefine the character shapes, which sort-of gives you a graphics mode, except messier. < 1253882002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The P series used the VIC-II 40-column color video chip like the C64 < 1253882014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have a PET with a C64 video chip here < 1253882018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to boot, it's obscure < 1253882025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, it has a hueg 128KiB of RAM < 1253882078 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, i was right about those graphical character symbols...called 'petscii' apparently which is fucking ADORABLE < 1253882109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Atari8.png < 1253882110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1253882112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, petscii's still there in the C128 and anything. < 1253882114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just became an Atari 8-bit fan < 1253882172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oldcomputers.net/atari400.html < 1253882174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1253882175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this, is the SHIT < 1253882184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 1.8MHz < 1253882191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8KiB RAM < 1253882195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :320x192 monochrome < 1253882200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :190x96 128-colour < 1253882204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$549 < 1253882205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1253882208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :released in fucking 1979 < 1253882224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: [[the Atari 400 has an "advanced child-proof design featuring pressure-sensitive, wipe-clean keyboard"]] < 1253882232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More power than in the VIC-20. :p < 1253882235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me, or was the C64 like super-obsolete before it came out??? < 1253882241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this awesome thing came out in 1979 < 1253882282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure it has audio though < 1253882300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oldcomputers.net/atari800.html < 1253882310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigger brother to it, same basic specs but with more slots and stuff < 1253882320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Atari 800 has multiple special purpose co-processors for sound and graphics to take the load off of the 6502 CPU, and it has sprites and collision-detection built into its hardware, so it is an excellent game machine. " < 1253882322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*." < 1253882325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm one of two opinions < 1253882329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) way too easy, 400 is better < 1253882337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) how could we abuse that for crazy purposes? < 1253882475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253882488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any opin'yunz on that thing? < 1253882499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesomity (or at least obsoletity, or market approval) is not always about the specs, though. To quote, "the greatest competitors to the C64 were the Atari 8-bit 400 and 800 -- [which] were very similar in hardware terms, but used custom chips for graphics and sound, and so were very expensive to build. -- One key to the C64's success was Commodore's aggressive marketing tactics, and they were quick to exploit the relative price/performance divisions betwee < 1253882499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n its competitors with a series of television commercials after the C64's launch in late 1982." < 1253882510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really an Atari person, I don't have an opinion there. < 1253882535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the C64 does hardware sprites and collision-detection too, so I wouldn't go so far as to call it obsolete. < 1253882549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, or maybe I could call it obsolete nowadays, but anyway. < 1253882560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was I calling anything obsolete? < 1253882575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is it just me, or was the C64 like super-obsolete before it came out??? < 1253882592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With three question marks and all. < 1253882595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, cause it was 3 years after the atari 400/800 and terribly similar < 1253882657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just being similar to products already on the market doesn't really mean obsolete; though certainly it wasn't terribly innovative on the tech side. < 1253882697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy tricks: < 1253882699 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In January 1983, Commodore offered a $100 rebate in the United States on the purchase of a C64 to anyone trading in another computer or video game console. To take advantage of this rebate, some mail-order dealers and retailers offered a Timex Sinclair 1000 for as little as $10 with purchase of a C64, so the consumer could send the TS1000 to Commodore, collect the rebate, and pocket the difference; Timex Corporation departed the marketplace within a year." < 1253882702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the tech was *old* < 1253882817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like the apple ii was the first coloured computer on the market < 1253882946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that politically correct? Shouldn't you say "a pigment-rich computer" or something? < 1253882970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253883183 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the c64 was amazing in terms of price/performance more than anything else < 1253883218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no, I don't think so < 1253883237 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the historical prices for it vs its competitors < 1253883253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atari 400 $549; .8MHz faster chip, 56KiB less base RAM, similar rest of specs... in 1979 < 1253883260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C64 only cost something like $150 to make < 1253883270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't anything special < 1253883305 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, look at the ram! < 1253883334 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cant compare 4-8k machine with 64k machines in terms of what they deliver < 1253883344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but ram dropped in price < 1253883357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is that the atari 400 wasn't wildly, wildly off base... three years ago < 1253883362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a particularly rapid period of computing history < 1253883374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed it shows, in that the C64 cost under 200 bux to make but they sold it for 500 < 1253883389 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :price when newly released is far from the most important < 1253883396 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machines had much longer life cycles then < 1253883410 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 8 bit era was most of the 80s for home users < 1253883414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gggggggggggggggggggggggggggg < 1253883416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1253883423 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out the price of the c64 vs its competition over its historical sale period < 1253883435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you're right. < 1253883444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chip kinda sucked though < 1253883447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even any multiplication < 1253883461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same 6502 everyone else had. :p < 1253883473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253883474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks < 1253883480 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think about 1984 was probably the high point for it, since then it was selling really cheap but there wasnt really anything superior in the home market until you got to stuff $1000 plus < 1253883643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I rather like Z80 more. At least it does 16-bit operations natively (you can pair up some of the 8-bit registers), and it's got a lot more registers; A, B, C, D, E, H, L compared to A, X, Y in the 6502. < 1253883661 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I <3 the C128: it's got them both, built-in. < 1253883701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... dual processors? really? < 1253883718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, err... you can't run them simultaneously, of course. :p < 1253883722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1253883735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Z80 was there mostly for CP/M compatibility. < 1253883737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c64 demos run on the 6502, OS code runs on the Z80 watching it... < 1253883779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one memory bus, after all. < 1253883808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could share. < 1253883839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They already share with the display chip; three's a crowd, after all. < 1253883911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you think it'd be theoretically possible to run them both at once? < 1253883942 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no logic on the motherboard to do bus arbitration, so not without some probably fairly extensive hardware mods. < 1253883988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1253883989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:< < 1253884092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sharing the memory bus with the VIC-II already halves the (theoretically 4 MHz) clock speed of the Z80; people did complain about the CP/M running slowly because of that. < 1253884108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2mhz is fine. < 1253884113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i want my damn OS cpu. < 1253884198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 2 MHz Z80 is (according to a rough estimate) equivalent to a 0.5 MHz 8502 (the 6502 clone in C128), since the latter does some pipelining. < 1253884218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because of the pipelined architecture of the 8502, a 1 MHz 8502 is approximately comparable in speed with a 4 MHz Z80. However, on the C128, the Z80 only runs at 4 MHz half the time giving an effective clock speed of 2 MHz. This means that the Z80 is only about half as fast as the 8502 (only about a fourth as fast when the 8502 is in 2 MHz mode)." < 1253884241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :task switching is fast dood :P < 1253884326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the C128 BIOS routines run on the 8502 even in CP/M mode; the Z80 writes arguments to some predefined memory location, wakes up the 8502 and halts; then the 8502 does the work, writes return values to memory, and wakes up the Z80 again. < 1253884366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really tell the 8502 to do things when a bitchin' demo is running < 1253884451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multitasking a *demo* and anything else doesn't really sound feasible, since those things are so very close to the hardware. Feel free to try, of course. < 1253884485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C64 demos, naturally. :P < 1253884503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's faster and stuff, you see. < 1253884514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But I'd need both chips whirring at once to do it. < 1253884522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise that demo will just shit all over everything. < 1253884596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no memory protection, shared interrupts with no routing, it will probably shit all over everything in any case, even if you could get the Z80 running too. (And the bus cycles lost to the Z80 would probably mess up all timing-related stuff in the demo.) < 1253884606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1253884616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ruin my hopes; dreams; mayonnaise avocado whip. < 1253884621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; pony shelter. < 1253884698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, while you're doing to necessary hardware hacking to get both CPUs running, you could add a kilobyte or so of Z80-only RAM and some sort of programmable logic chip to route interrupt lines; using that (and the C128 memory banking C64 demos probably don't expect) you might even get something done. < 1253884754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware hacking is sort of cheating, though. < 1253884755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also hard. < 1253884763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And warey. < 1253884770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... pony? < 1253884930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phony. < 1253884937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does warey even mean? < 1253885122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know. It sounds like the same thing as "wary". < 1253885159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone ought to give me an unlimited reign of dictatorship over GNOME so I can fix the bad parts. < 1253885237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, for instance: My totally made-up-and-only-existing-inside-my-head Activities! < 1253885266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, the important part < 1253885269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that it'd all run on a C64. < 1253885285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes indeed. < 1253888170 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I seem to be constantly ballsing the interpreter up :-( < 1253888248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: paste the code, I'll try and nudge you in the right direction < 1253888264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like making stupid mistakes is an uncommon thing when writing a new type of program :) < 1253888272 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1253888336 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/nDJ2gxWr < 1253888375 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for putting up with me again :-) < 1253888417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: correct me if I'm wrong, but when you parse the ], you fail to do self.jump_map[last]=open_blah < 1253888422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., the ] to [ mapping < 1253888426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just assign the [ to ] mapping < 1253888440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, your ] doesn't look at jump_map < 1253888445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure how it's supposed to work < 1253888446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1253888458 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the top of the stack < 1253888462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: why the -1 in ]? < 1253888471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that executes the instruction before the [, no? < 1253888493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: also, as you currently have unbounded, signed cells > 0 is wrong < 1253888506 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, the instruction pointer is incremented regardless < 1253888509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be just if self.stack:; that is, if len(self.stack) != 0 < 1253888509 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.instruction_pointer+=1 # Regardless, we continue! < 1253888522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suggest you make cells wrap 256 < 1253888530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, I don't see an issue < 1253888537 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balls :-( < 1253888557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what goes wrong? < 1253888611 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can execute simple programs, but not those with nested loops, it appears < 1253888643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: I suggest you drop that stack, and merely assign the ] position to the [ position in the jump map. < 1253888648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then both [ and ] can use the jump_map. < 1253888670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reduces the number of concepts in the interpreter, and so should narrow down the problem. < 1253888853 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. I'll see what 'splodes :-) < 1253888867 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently my test suite fails on 4 of the 11 tests < 1253888889 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's more one large TestCase ... :-/ < 1253888917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you crazy beginning esolangers and yer test suites and yer three-piece bathroom suites < 1253888928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why in my day we called a buncha BF programs a shell script for loop < 1253888933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we LIKED it < 1253889120 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I considered that. But then I thought, might as well have nice verbose erroring. Also eclipse runs them all from a single hot-key < 1253889133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eclipse < 1253889138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are no longer welcome :| < 1253889158 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eclipse is good, once it's loaded (Assuming you have >2GB RAM available) < 1253889173 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my trusty thinkpad has 2GB! < 1253889178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a decidedly opposite world definition of good, quite so. < 1253889188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, one in the vicinity of "bad". < 1253889231 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my experience shows it to be stable and full of the features I like, at the expense of my RAM. It's not like I'd find any other usage for it. < 1253889265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, and i normally just have to correct one or two brain tumours in new recruits < 1253889265 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, code completion. < 1253889270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I can do a brain transpl-- < 1253889277 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :-D < 1253889285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. yes, that gigabyte of RAM Eclipse is using is entirely dedicated to code completion. < 1253889290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it. < 1253889317 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not true... it has to compile the java bytecode to a native executable and hold the MASSIVE resulting executable in RAM < 1253889331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has nobody to blame for this but itself. < 1253889334 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is code-completion < 1253889348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biggest brainfuck interpreter evar < 1253889352 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha, true < 1253889365 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can run my interpreter outside of eclipse < 1253889385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION huddles off with his assortment of text editors and REPLs, grumbling about darned kids and their bad coding < 1253889404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can you still say "darned kids" if you're only old and cranky in spirit?) < 1253889426 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253889466 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly how old are you? < 1253889485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, down to the planck second? < 1253889494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know exactly what hour i was born. < 1253889498 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more accurate, if possible < 1253889499 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1253889505 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine... to the year will do :-p < 1253889508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 glibons and a half-quantum < 1253889517 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 gibbons? < 1253889523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hack the glibson. < 1253889533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's been 14 years since I was pushed out of that perfectly comfortable womb. < 1253889583 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough, I don't think you can say "darned kids" when you're younger than me < 1253889600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly what a darned kid would say. < 1253889608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to dissuade appropriate and well-applied criticism. < 1253889631 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 19! < 1253889640 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write code for a living and goto uni for fun! < 1253889643 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dannyturner.net < 1253889661 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-139-228.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253889672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: you solve project euler problems for a living? :P < 1253889674 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pay rent, gas, electric and water bills. < 1253889681 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dannyturner isn't my living < 1253889685 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my fun little outlet < 1253889702 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. what I do when I'm not studying/working < 1253889721 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my life consists of cycle to uni, work (often involving coding) < 1253889723 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return home < 1253889723 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat < 1253889727 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work for pay < 1253889733 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log some hours worked < 1253889745 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code for fun < 1253889746 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep < 1253889747 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wake < 1253889756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be more interesting if you were paid to solve project euler problems. < 1253889762 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would actually be awesome < 1253889784 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while ago, someone offered a 5,000 prize for completing the first 30 project euler problems in APL < 1253889800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? that's ridiculous < 1253889802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would so have done that < 1253889807 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language) < 1253889811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about APL < 1253889818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can program a little bit in J, which is similar enough < 1253889834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, that type of language is particularly well-suited to solving Project Euler problems concisely. < 1253889841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's a rather ridiculous prize. < 1253889862 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prize has already been claimed though < 1253889863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the first 30 are rather simple. < 1253889884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised, it probably took only a few hours in total :-P < 1253889915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's like 1k/hr ;P < 1253889916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1253889921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could type the pound on this damn keyboard < 1253889935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because I prioritise # doesn't mean I never want to talk about our currency :( < 1253889950 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, currency is overrated < 1253889956 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit karma is harder to come by. < 1253889982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno man, i got like 200 points on "I CAN SHARE CHEEZBURGR" way back. < 1253889995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless comment karma doesn't count < 1253890001 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally scrape like 8 on a good comment... < 1253890014 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link karma is /way/ harder to come by... :-/ < 1253890016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually get 1 these days :P < 1253890039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically all of my link karma comes from two submissions: < 1253890043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/71e5c/sketchpad_an_advanced_painting_program_from_1963/ < 1253890043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7nt8p/itunes_all_songs_drmfree/ < 1253890049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it matters. < 1253890062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd have gotten like 2x more on that latter one if I'd submitted it to /r/technology :P) < 1253890210 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253890320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there's anything like IDLE but with less gtk. < 1253890322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm. < 1253890323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less tk. < 1253890325 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253890336 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, vim? < 1253890344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mainly the repl i'm after < 1253890354 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python < 1253890358 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in vim < 1253890371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: you realise that's the same as running python from a shell. < 1253890375 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even slightly cool: FAILED (failures=7) < 1253890376 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1253890389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find syntax highlighting useful and all. < 1253890390 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a read-eval-print-loop, so who cares? :-p < 1253890399 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim has syntax highlightinh < 1253890404 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*highlighting < 1253890405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in !python. < 1253890409 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1253890410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's just python in a shell. < 1253890422 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1253890436 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally just run tests from the shell, nothing big < 1253890451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits Tinned_Tuna with the Holy Stick of Incremental Development < 1253890457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bonk* < 1253890458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bonk* < 1253890459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bonk* < 1253890463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider yourself hit. < 1253890474 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits ehird with the holy stick of Unit Testing < 1253890479 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clang* < 1253890481 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clang* < 1253890482 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clang* < 1253890488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck kind of broke-ass stick goes clang. < 1253890497 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an aluminium baseball bat. < 1253890508 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's holy. < 1253890510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits Tinned_Tuna with the tinned tuna of expressive type systems such as Hindley-Milner < 1253890513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thhpt* < 1253890514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thhpt* < 1253890515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thhpt* < 1253890525 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits ehird with Haskell < 1253890528 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wrong type* < 1253890537 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFUUUUUUU.... < 1253890541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits Tinned_Tuna with Haskell < 1253890543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*type classes* < 1253890548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*polymorphism* < 1253890555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SYB* < 1253890573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the fact that adding Haskell's type system actually increases expressibility, e.g. by letting you do more sandboxing* < 1253890585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ those are all onomatopoeic. < 1253890645 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253890745 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I still prefer python because I can do all the fun shit with mutating variables easily, explicit loops, full object orientation, but at the same time I could do something in quite a functional style. < 1253890757 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way < 1253890758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the same with Haskell. < 1253890760 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is slower :-( < 1253890762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is a great imperative language. < 1253890767 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only through monads, though? < 1253890782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a persistent belief among Haskell newbies that monads are some sort of added layer or kludge. < 1253890793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so. It's a very natural way to do imperative, and not a messy layer on top of the purity. < 1253890803 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is < 1253890807 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want monads < 1253890817 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want my messy impure stuff right there next to the pure stuff < 1253890835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that too, if you stay in IO to mark things as "this is imperative". < 1253890934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say that you don't want monads but I doubt that given a deeper understanding of Haskell you'd say that. The progression in a Haskell programmer's path seems to be "ok, this is simple" -> "WTF are monads? WTF are functors? What is this? Oh god..." -> "ok, well monads are ok for a bit of imperative stuff layered over the core as a neat trick to interact with the world using primarily your pure algorithms..." -> "oh, wait, monads are actually a powerful a < 1253890934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bstraction in their own right, and not just for IO, with lots of assorted categories... hmm..." -> "hey, these same abstractions are useful all over the place... and I can use the IO monad to my advantage, helping me rather than being bothersome" -> "<3 HASKELL BFF4LYF". < 1253890967 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253890991 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits ehird with python < 1253890999 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved < 1253891000 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1253891045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're pikhq; then it goes "okay, this is pretty simple. makes sense, quite elegant." -> "okay, here's how we do IO. that's easy." -> "ah, a monad. hmm. oh, I see how this works with other concepts" -> "and applicatives and functors" -> "okay, I can write some stuff in Haskell now" -> "ah, now I understand what a monad really *is*, abstractly." -> "and applicatives. and functors." -> "HASKELL IS SUPREME GOD OF THE UNIVERSE". < 1253891056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With that whole progression lasting 7 days, literally.) < 1253891067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As in the actual literal sense of literally, not the sense that means "not literally".) < 1253891075 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253891590 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1253891595 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You discussed Project Euler problems? < 1253891604 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention I solved the first one with CSS? (more or less) < 1253891717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253891927 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253891934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253891951 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253892420 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@LRouen-152-83-15-79.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253892543 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Cascading Style Sheets? < 1253892549 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1253892559 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://etc.firefly.nu/css/euler-1.html <-- At least it works in O10 < 1253892590 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual selection is done with CSS, though it needs numbers to be stored in a certain format, to operate on (hence the JS) < 1253892655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0 tal; summa: 0". < 1253892659 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1253892665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gecko 1.9, epiphany something, and the browser is frozen. < 1253892667 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"466 tal; summa: 233168" < 1253892900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, gecko fails at everything :) < 1253892914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't freeze my browser now; same result, though. < 1253892968 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroimum doesn't even want to open the page, I just get a sad tab :\ < 1253892996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuck, Chromium on Linux. Horrible custom-drawn frame. < 1253893013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epiphany-WebKit is the future, I just wish they'd fix all the bugs in it that aren't in the Gecko version. :( < 1253893014 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful for testing stuff in webkit < 1253893026 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1253893026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Use Arora for that. < 1253893034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's extremely barebones. < 1253893115 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arora crashed upon entering the page :D < 1253893217 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure CSS isn't turing complete... < 1253893222 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I mistaken? < 1253893223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. < 1253893244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253893261 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253893273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, redundant nickstamps. < 1253893281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now my XChat-GNOME experience is not horrifying. < 1253893456 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSS2 isn't, at least < 1253893472 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But looking at CSS3 I'm getting more and more.. doubtful about that < 1253893821 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253894509 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253894575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION submits a bug to Ubuntu < 1253895537 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253896018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd today... have that actually ever happened? < 1253896030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1253896054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253896123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for less silly stuff that it is free from I guess? < 1253896129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1253896133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1253896146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link or something? < 1253896154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;yg. < 1253896159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Too lazy; you google.) < 1253896167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know what too goole for.... < 1253896176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asbestosfree? < 1253896245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no luck in googling. meh < 1253897112 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253897171 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B136469.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253897471 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? "Pasteurised homogenised semi-skimmed milk" contains milk? Who would have guessed... :-> < 1253897571 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cadbury Dairy Milk Chocolate Bars Contain Milk, Company Warns ... Unfortunately, that's not from the Onion. < 1253897623 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253898067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1253898152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: I've made a simple Bf interpreter in Python with the same sort of structure to yours to show how I'd do it < 1253898155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironing out the last bugs now... < 1253898814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: http://codepad.org/IcgSnL5m < 1253898834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slow enough that it's painful to watch mandelbrot.b go by or wait for LostKng.b to respond, but it's cleanly written and works for most stuff. < 1253900057 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B136469.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253901433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck, ubuntu are moving me to epiphany-webkit < 1253901441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to say no :P < 1253901641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, the small font size issue. < 1253901681 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1253901684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the address bar has an integrated progress bar, which is ugly and besides I need the status bar for anti-goatse purposes, so it might as well be used and be consistent with GNOME. < 1253901794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh! The fun doth not stop! If you disable the status bar and hover over a link it displays the URL in a small font in a gray-background box with a #000 border in the bottom-left, clashing with the curved window border. < 1253901812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This ugly, jerkily-appearing-and-disappearing splodge is presumably meant to be imitating Chrome. < 1253901816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, regression < 1253901858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, maybe I could make a custom stylesheet to fix the font size. < 1253902052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey WebKit, did you just render that with differing font antialiasing to my desktop while leaving the rest of the page correct? < 1253902058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you did! You did! < 1253902204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253902608 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253902626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it seems it Absolutely Refuses to put an Epiphany icon in the menus, no matter how many times I uninstall/install. < 1253902632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ya think this might be an alpha release? < 1253902716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I guess the awful Firefox it is, for now! You have vanquished me, alpha 6. < 1253902837 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253903480 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-135-217.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253904105 0 :coppro!n=coppro@csi.calgaryscientific.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253904127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253904350 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-169-194.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253904356 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253904371 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253905284 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90d32@gateway/web/freenode/x-ftdofbkulfhyneue JOIN :#esoteric < 1253905790 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253906038 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253906182 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Behold < 1253906229 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which witch watch which swatch watch? < 1253906252 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ding dong the witch is dead! < 1253906381 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253906509 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1253906893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Glade appears to be a relatively non-horrible interface for making resizable GUIs using a quite decent toolkit. < 1253906901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take that, every-other-toolkit-ever. < 1253906951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: UI only becomes decent when you change the widget selector to text only instead of hovering over every damn inscrutable icon.) < 1253907017 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes he had a lightsaber < 1253907045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be completely unable to find the way to size a widget up to get a rough default width/height as opposed to keying in pixel values, though. < 1253907065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lightsabers: a more elegant UI designer, for a more civilized age. < 1253907091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just fucking cut the UI up to shape, man!" < 1253907099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We'll start with a block of raw interaction." < 1253907106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But... even the guild dilutes it nowadays..." < 1253907116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't give a damn what the guild does. Get your UIsaber out." < 1253907399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vbox containing a menu and an hbox containing 1. a vbox containing (1. (empty) 2. (empty)) 2. a vbox containing (1. (empty) 2. (empty)) < 1253907401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELEGANT SIMPLICIT < 1253907403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y < 1253907408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\nY/Y/ < 1253907712 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants cboxes < 1253907750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they do? :P < 1253907816 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circular boxes! < 1253907840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow < 1253907998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish: hide gtk program scrollbars unless mouse at right side of screen where it would be or currently scrolling (e.g. with mouse, up/down etc) < 1253908366 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting idea < 1253908371 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never encountered that with any WM myself < 1253908380 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm not an esoteric WM user < 1253908446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the iphone does it :P < 1253908464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although obvs the scrollbar is nonfunctional, because any dragging you'd apply to it just applies to the document itself and works the same... < 1253908480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, the scrollbar is such a waste 90% of the time and adds quite a lot of visual clutter < 1253908487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hardly ever needed < 1253908499 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, pageup/down > scrollbar < 1253908504 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mousewheel < 1253908546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mousewheel is the best for slow movement, dragging the scrollbar swiftly to a position is best to get to a spot < 1253908567 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really long documents should have a ToC < 1253908579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really long documents should be split up. < 1253908583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: HTML encodes the ToC separately so that the browser can deisplay it independently < 1253908586 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*display < 1253908610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :html isn't really semantic despite claims so. < 1253908623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what the h1..h6 tags are for; the logical structure of the document. < 1253908632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also. < 1253908635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1253908659 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... wonder if it's possible to autogenerate a ToC with CSS... probably not < 1253908731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glade, please don't let it be so that you can't do "default height/width" yourself for widgets just like windows :( < 1253908739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to write stupid redundant code. < 1253908992 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253909078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1253909153 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I joined this channel, but I am posting on #anagol channel too < 1253909232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. irc lets you join multiple channels. < 1253909301 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course I know that. (But some servers has a limit) < 1253909325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/some/all/ < 1253909345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1253909361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not really a GTK (or any GUI) person, but I think only Gtk windows have a "default size"; Gtk widgets have a "size request" for "smallest size that will work well", and that you can specify in Glade in the properties. (Though not by draggery.) < 1253909377 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course there is a physical limit even if a limit has not been configured < 1253909392 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253909428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do said widgets default to that size, though? < 1253909438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, changing the requested size does not appear to be reflected in the glade window < 1253909448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a total crapshoot as to what it'll actually look like... < 1253909461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they won't get any smaller. They can easily get bigger, though, so it's not really a "default size" like that. < 1253909500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the default size isn't the reasonable minimum size, so that goes out of the door. < 1253909504 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. I now hate something new. But I can't tell you what it is. < 1253909517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you are perfectly physically capable of doing so < 1253909530 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MAY NOT tell you what it is. < 1253909536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're saying is you're choosing not to for whatever reason, and I can't think of anything this'd achieve apart from attention whoring < 1253909552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the "hur hur I'm in an agoran contract" style of attention whoring does not seem to exactly have wide appeal... < 1253909577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an Agoran contract < 1253909590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem to be shown in the Glade window here; but yes, it's just minimum-size. I'm not quite sure how you're supposed to behave if you want widgets that don't feel like growing huge. < 1253909596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then either an RFC declared you MAY NOT, or you're misusing terminology < 1253909634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: is it not not to do with lenovo < 1253909641 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not < 1253909644 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is to do with my job < 1253909649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freenode's channel limit is 21; strange number. (It's in the RFC2812 numeric the servers send; "CHANLIMIT=#&!+:21".) < 1253909651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your job at the fbi. < 1253909672 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an open-source library that is the new target of my ire < 1253909718 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Huh? I get "CHANLIMIT=#:20" on my computer. < 1253909749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh? Well, it might be different on different freenode servers, or alternatively my bouncer does something strange to it, though that sounds unlikely. < 1253909761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which freenode server are you on? < 1253909781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can find that out with /whois. < 1253909787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind, I was looking at the wrong row, the IRCnet line. :p < 1253909790 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you get this info? < 1253909806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the connection information. < 1253909811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, that clog before the MOTD. < 1253909821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- farmer.freenode.net hyperion-1.0.2b aAbBcCdDeEfFGhHiIjkKlLmMnNopPQrRsStTuUvVwWxXyYzZ01234569*@ bcdefFhiIklmnoPqstv < 1253909821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- IRCD=dancer CAPAB CHANTYPES=# EXCEPTS INVEX CHANMODES=bdeIq,k,lfJD,cgijLmnPQrRstz CHANLIMIT=#:20 PREFIX=(ov)@+ MAXLIST=bdeI:50 MODES=4 STATUSMSG=@ KNOCK NICKLEN=16 :are supported by this server < 1253909821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- SAFELIST CASEMAPPING=ascii CHANNELLEN=30 TOPICLEN=450 KICKLEN=450 KEYLEN=23 USERLEN=10 HOSTLEN=63 SILENCE=50 :are supported by this server < 1253909823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then, irc.tdc.fi has a strange channel limit. The freenode server indeed does CHANLIMIT=#:20. < 1253909824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The channel limit is on the 005 line sent to you upon sending username < 1253909915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there is no RFC keyword "MAY NOT"; RFC 2119 -- http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt -- specifies only "MUST", "MUST NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", "REQUIRED", "MAY" and "OPTIONAL". < 1253909969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", how did I drop those. < 1253909987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You SHALL NOT forget thos. < 1253909989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*those < 1253909991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVER AGAIN! < 1253910044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, I SHOULD NOT have forgotten those now either. (That is; there may exist valid reasons for forgetting, but "the full implications should be understood and the case carefully weighed before" forgetting.) < 1253910113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In Agora, that causes SHOULD to be defined recursively. < 1253910127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to carefully weigh up the implications of not (carefully weighing up the implications of not (... < 1253910143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait. < 1253910145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to. < 1253910147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just should. < 1253910149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before doing whatever it is. < 1253910156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's quite, err, empty. < 1253911225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253911328 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253911915 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253912555 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on a link in Hatena Diary, I have found a link to Google Squared, search "programming language". I tried adding a column "Color". According to Google, Eiffel is black, and function programming languages are green. < 1253912565 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/function/functional/ < 1253912653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is also black; it comes from the fact that "Hutchinson Python New Gen UST Tubeless Light Tire" is black. < 1253912661 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-195-167.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253912684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those sources are always so funny. < 1253912737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it says functional languages are blue; but green's also on the list of values. (Because some "multi-functional headset" cables are blue, but on the other hand a Cisco router has a green blinking LED when the software is "functional".) < 1253912827 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the pictures are not necessarily right either. I searched "chess variant", it came up with a list of chess variants but many of the pictures correspond to something else with the same name that has nothing to do with chess. < 1253912893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Price" is a good column; Visual Basic costs $65.98; Fortran £512.00; Python $107.20; Eiffel just $2.00; you can get Forth for $9.99; Haskell's $29.95; and functional programming languages are a whopping USD $795.00. < 1253912911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know Python costs over a hundred bucks. < 1253912989 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get Forth for $0.00 listed < 1253913068 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also tried searching "esolang" < 1253913095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes up with a proper list, but some of the descriptions are only part of a list of esolangs < 1253913106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is blue and Funge is red < 1253913132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it adds three columns "C Equivalent" "Meaning" "Appeared In" none of which have any values. < 1253913179 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog is also blue, at $106 < 1253913192 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has something which seems useful, "Usual File Extensions" but there is no values. < 1253913279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's interesting is: green is red, white is black, silver is yellow. (At least that's what I get when I build a Square of colors and add a "color" column.) < 1253913283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253913300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, violet is rated PG-13; purple and yellow are rated B; and green is rated at 8.3. < 1253913311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ranking, Rating and Configuration were the default columns.) < 1253913314 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253913339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ranking has no values, and configuration for green is "Choosing the Right Solution", while the config for silver is "6-cyl". < 1253913357 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get "Author", "Media Type", and "Isbn" as default columns. < 1253913376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Colors for other colors were #aabbcc RGB values which looked sensible.) < 1253913399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get yellow = yellow green, silver = white, white = black, blue = #0000ff < 1253913415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For red, green, and black it can't find colours < 1253913417 0 :k!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253913432 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For black it found the colour "Tesco H30 Colour Ink" but no color < 1253913445 0 :k!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest99872 < 1253913450 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1253913453 0 :Guest99872!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1253913473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got RGB values for yellow (#FFFF00), violet (#EE82EE), purple (#800080), brown (#A52A2A), magenta (#FF00FF) and lavender (#E6E6FA). < 1253913511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the image for "White" was the U.S. Department of Energy logo. < 1253913515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Violet = Violet Red < 1253913538 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purple = "Pink/", Brown = "Black," < 1253913549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magenta and lavender get the RGB here as well. < 1253913570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems the question of indigo is settled: Indigo = Blue < 1253913592 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253913612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mauve is black < 1253913633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grey is green, gray is black < 1253913639 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least "quark" gives correct descriptions when I add the correct items < 1253913648 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quarks are white. < 1253913679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253913724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Item Name: Quark. Image: [picture of the Quark character from Star Trek]. Description: "Quark Signs Distribution Agreement with DistributorX Inc.". And finally: Color: "yes". < 1253913737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it has a color. < 1253913738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes"? O_o < 1253913743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. So, it is a color film, then? < 1253913751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's from Wikipedia. :p < 1253913754 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protons have colour grey but color BLACK < 1253913761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electrons are blue < 1253913765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"color charge for Up quark" < 1253913771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Positrons are lime < 1253913788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neutrons are red < 1253913789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange/charm/top/bottom quarks language are English but up and down quarks there is no value for colors < 1253913796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sounds like a poem. < 1253913803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1253913818 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ya, now make up a poem from this < 1253913822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For "violets" it gives color white and colour "yellowish" < 1253913833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And roses are black < 1253913844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be an yellowish off-white color. < 1253913849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For violets, I mean. < 1253913896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roses are black, violets are yellowish, ... < 1253913981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sugar is Annona, and so are you. < 1253914015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Genus: Annona was the only column with a value in the "add these ten suggestions" columns for a single-row "sugar" square.) < 1253914015 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of something that'd rhyme with "yellowish" < 1253914017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one thing works, when I search "internet protocol", manually type in the names of the protocols, and add a "port number" column, it gives the correct answers. But "color" for HTTP gives a URL, and "Command" for "HTTP" is "yes" < 1253914061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sugar is salty, and so are fish? < 1253914132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typed in the following protocols: HTTP, Gopher, FTP, Telnet, SMTP, WHOIS, POP3, SSH, IRC. The only column which is correct is the "port number" column. The other columns act crazy. < 1253914140 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253914318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a better way to express the idea of going down to the power of two right below you then: < 1253914330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 ^ (floor(log2(x)) < 1253914628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use some sort of supremum notation over the set of all powers of two that are less than (or equal, if you want) x, but I'm not sure that's very obviouser. Alternatively, you could use, you know, language. < 1253914715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253915230 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253915230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253916082 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253918046 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253918194 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253918994 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253920249 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-069-215.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253920976 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253923734 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253924343 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253926105 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1253927312 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253927348 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-139-228.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253928140 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I learn emacs, or vi? < 1253928225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi < 1253928225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi < 1253928226 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi < 1253928229 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim, specifically. < 1253928232 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs is for losers. < 1253928459 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253928591 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I regard Vi as tolerable for some simple editing (but nano tends to be better for that), but Vim is completely unusuable... :-) < 1253928773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You emacs lunatics just haven't Seen the Light. < 1253928782 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Light that is vim < 1253928861 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have some affection for emacs stemming from when I brought a book on Emacs, since I thought it was connected to macs < 1253928876 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also did the same thing with CORBA, and that's the story of why I know a bit of COBOL) < 1253929024 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tried to use Vim. It was total crap (Vi was only crap, but not total crap). < 1253929192 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. The user nobody is running ImapProxy on my school's linux system < 1253929222 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nobody user is used for things that shouldn't have access to anything in particular. < 1253929248 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know what ImapProxy is, but is there anything interesting implied by the fact that it's running? < 1253929261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. < 1253929470 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of the teachers is stalking the Hockey club? < 1253929608 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253929677 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/b99qje4snvmmgqaapnpm6g < 1253929708 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even to my unaccustomed-to-bash eyes, that looks ugly < 1253930234 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some indentation would help. < 1253930487 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that bash file made to stalk hockey? < 1253930612 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1253930639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, it's a HUGE waste of CPU. < 1253930693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me hate bash. < 1253930728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I've seen the light that is Vim. M-x vimperator was kinda lame. < 1253930794 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1253931062 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is C# a good language to learn? < 1253931133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; the only interesting thing in C# is monads. And if you're really wanting to learn those, learn you some Haskell. < 1253931186 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is the best to learn for a career in programming? < 1253931205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for a career? < 1253931210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't learn languages. < 1253931212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn concepts. < 1253931223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it so you could reasonably learn a language in a couple of weeks. < 1253931255 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm at that point, but I'm not sure < 1253931296 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, at least for languages that follow whatever thing C is, as in, not functional or whatever) < 1253931302 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also OOP < 1253931333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... So, you know imperative OO languages. < 1253931345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn some functional languages. < 1253931387 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is the solution to all problems. < 1253931411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Says the D programmer. < 1253931416 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew enough Haskell at once point to make a bad pun < 1253931419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't programmed in D in months :P < 1253931570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fine, fine. < 1253931577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Says the guy responsible for Plof. < 1253932210 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why is root running GNOME? < 1253932218 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root :0 - 08Jul09 ?xdm? 20:40m 0.22s /usr/bin/gnome-session < 1253932829 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1253932983 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent a mail to that stalkery professor... < 1253933062 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253934357 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253934359 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253934359 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253934362 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253934363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1253934379 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-139-228.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253934379 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-069-215.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1253934379 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1253934379 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-223.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253934379 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1253935357 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1253935431 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i finally figured out that the packing density of circles arranged hexagonally is pi * sqrt(3)/6 < 1253935440 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it's been a long time since i've done math < 1253937976 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-146-170.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253939561 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253939945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253940788 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253940796 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253941460 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253941643 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253943694 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253943698 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_0F/screen0.png < 1253943737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it doesn't look much like a pipe < 1253943787 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't supposed to be a pipe. The "THIS IS NOT A PIPE" is based on a art by Magritte < 1253943798 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but they wrote it in French, and it actually had pictures of pipes) < 1253943808 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But other than that it is unrelated < 1253943811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253943899 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.michaelarnoldart.com/Magritte-The_Two_Mysteries-1966-1.jpg < 1253944546 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, is the first picture, good, nevertheless? Did you like it? And, what about Magritte's picture? Do you like that one too? < 1253944619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Headache" < 1253945300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two little sticks They're made out of wood And they help you To pick up your lunch Your lunch And if you practice Then you'd get good And you'll tind you can pick up A bunch to munch Eat noodles with chopsticks Eat dumplings with chopsticks Eat sushi with chopsticks That's fish! Don't eat soup with your chopsticks That's no good with chopsticks And jello with slide off Your dish I eat with chopsticks Can you eat with chopsticks Doctor told us < 1253946316 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253946332 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-129-135.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253947189 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253947463 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253951999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1253952000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1253956261 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B132B0A.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253957128 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d907d2@gateway/web/freenode/x-zptbkcwmlpjslgqx JOIN :#esoteric < 1253957966 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253960233 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253961689 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@83.183.183.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253962129 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1253963366 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1253964428 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1253965208 0 :augur_!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253965211 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253968802 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1253968811 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253969698 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1253973128 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253973192 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1253974786 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253974870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:15:00 Also, violet is rated PG-13; purple and yellow are rated B; and green is rated at 8.3. < 1253974872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253974993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:32:53 You emacs lunatics just haven't Seen the Light. < 1253974994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:33:02 The Light that is vim < 1253975011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're both on crack, but vi has a coherent philosophy, so I declare that Gregor is Victor. < 1253975039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Victor Frankenstein, but still < 1253975045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:05:28 Gregor: I've seen the light that is Vim. M-x vimperator was kinda lame. < 1253975047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean M-x viper. < 1253975050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vimperator is Firefox. < 1253975062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*viper-mode < 1253975067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you might be joking. < 1253975074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, pikhq liking vim? < 1253975084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:13:06 What language is the best to learn for a career in programming? < 1253975096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a healthy dose of "I hate my life and want it to be hell". < 1253975384 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1253975973 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1253976261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will give 99€ to anyone completing C99 support in TinyCC." < 1253976263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1253976268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a stupid thing to say < 1253976287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this guy have any idea how much programmers working on a damn compiler would usually be paid? < 1253976756 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-195-167.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253978656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf ubuntu < 1253978659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my password < 1253978660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me authenticate < 1253978683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, capslock < 1253979214 0 :Tinned_Tuna!n=danny@94-195-251-193.zone9.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1253979312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Gnome 2.28 came out. < 1253979315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did that happen? < 1253979353 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when no one was looking < 1253979358 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they did it in secret < 1253979375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they conspired with the Ubuntu alpha team too, because I already have it. < 1253979407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advantage of using the alpha: exciting bug fix updates EVERY DAY! < 1253979412 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :-D < 1253979444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disadvantage: Nothing quite works right.) < 1253979497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# GNOME menus and buttons have been standardised across all applications to not display icons by default. Menu items with dynamic objects, including applications, files or bookmarks, and devices are the exception and can display an icon. This change will standardise the look and feel of menus and present a cleaner interface to users.'" < 1253979499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*users." < 1253979506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems they reverted it in Ubuntu because I still have 'em. < 1253979510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder where the setting is. < 1253979567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons < 1253979587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's also in Appearance. Heh. < 1253979598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found when Googling: < 1253979602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[For some reason, the folks at GNOME (the “usability” team) decided to turn off icons in menus.]] < 1253979608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He says "usability" throughout the post. < 1253979620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now these people, these are FAKE usability experts." < 1253979628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer needs to restart to finish installing updates. Please save your work before continuing. < 1253979630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1253979639 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so glad I got to opt out of the user interface modules < 1253979651 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have my command line, and that's how everyone should use my software. < 1253979661 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of this nancy-pancy "button" shit. < 1253979666 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that said < 1253979682 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a GUI on my computer for pidgin, xchat, firefox, eclipse is nice < 1253979689 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't want to make them :-p < 1253979784 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253979792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It probably just inherited my pre-upgrade settings, actually.) < 1253979809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: did you see the codepad I linked you yesterday, btw? < 1253979821 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1253979828 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making a tape of my own < 1253979856 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the ol' dictionary of functions trick wouldn't really work too well, but if you abstract the tape away like you did, it makes a whole load of sense < 1253979861 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. I'm doing it too :-p < 1253979863 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :-) < 1253979872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253979889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: caveat: you have to assign self.instructions in __init__, since self.tape is < 1253979912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: also < 1253979913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else: < 1253979913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : raise BFSyntaxError('Unmatched [.') < 1253979913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1253979913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if openings: < 1253979913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : raise BFSyntaxError('Unmatched ].') < 1253979917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those two errors are backwards < 1253979920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretend they're flipped :P < 1253979937 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe :-) < 1253979952 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old did you say you were? < 1253979957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14, why? < 1253980026 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem older. < 1253980034 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're taking about 0x14 < 1253980048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably cliche to say "a lot of people say that". < 1253980085 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely < 1253980099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253980115 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253980128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: `killall gnome-panel` hides the xchat-gnome icon. < 1253980143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, you know you said removing the icons from the application menus would be bad? < 1253980149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only affects program menus < 1253981797 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253983825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1253984729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, seems like extensions are gone for good now in Epiphany < 1253984739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were all crap, though. < 1253984783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253984931 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253986649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, seems like extensions are gone for good now in Epiphany <-- hm? < 1253986660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean stuff like firefox add-ons? < 1253986663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1253986667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more like plugins < 1253986668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1253986672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, both. < 1253986674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing. < 1253986680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Add-Ons encompass extensions and themes in Firefox, iirc.) < 1253986698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, correct. And plugins would be stuff like java and flash < 1253986704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Indeed: Tabs are "extensions", "Themes", "Languages", "Plugins") < 1253986710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah. Those are still in, obviously. < 1253986739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes plugins are in "add-ons" nowdays, they weren't some versions ago < 1253986773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epiphany doesn't have any themes because themes are stupid, why have them just in a browser? your desktop environment already has themes, and no languages because they're all included < 1253986785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "add-ons" could only refer to extensions or plugins and now extensions are gone. < 1253986799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, wow Evolution really sucks. < 1253986811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so enterprisey and it doesn't even work. < 1253986856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I use the Creationism email client; it's just an empty window.) < 1253986867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except for one button, "connect".) < 1253986887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(When you click it, a dialog pops up saying "Magic happening..." and an imprecise batting-backwards-and-forth progress bar.) < 1253986892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It never disappears.) < 1253986898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, reason for firefox themes is probably that the default look isn't the native look. And quite crappy as well < 1253986928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't get that joke < 1253986943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Firefox's majority market is on Windows, where it looks fine. < 1253986949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although that weird back/forth eye thing is a bit odd.) < 1253986973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Themes are just because idiots are very demanding of silliness like that... especially if one is a developer. :P < 1253986973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Although that weird back/forth eye thing is a bit odd.) <-- huh? < 1253986992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you haven't seen it? < 1253987002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://z.about.com/d/browsers/1/0/k/B/-/-/openffbrowser.jpg < 1253987004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what you are referring to < 1253987009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the backwards/forwards buttons. < 1253987019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that yeah < 1253987028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I do use a theme :P < 1253987033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I hate firefox default look < 1253987034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks sort of like O_o, which I guess is why people call it the eye. < 1253987056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu's Firefox just makes it use the default buttons in regular style, which is... boringly sane? < 1253987068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But boring there is probably a good thing. < 1253987085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, free interpretation of that GUI feature: this means they are conservative, prefer going back rather than making progress < 1253987099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, I have found the one webcomic worse than User Friendly. < 1253987107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ubuntu's Firefox just makes it use the default buttons in regular style, which is... boringly sane? <-- ubuntu's firefox isn't the last one iirc < 1253987114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free Software Magazine's "The Bizarre Cathedral". Representative example: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/files/www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/nodes/3210/strip.jpg < 1253987118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is in karmic alpha6. < 1253987124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1253987128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spoiler: Still sucks < 1253987170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Free Software Magazine's "The Bizarre Cathedral". Representative example: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/files/www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/nodes/3210/strip.jpg <-- quite a horrible joke < 1253987177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one could even call it joke < 1253987185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's been going since 2004 and as near as I can tell they're all that bad < 1253987195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1253987210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the characters always have exactly the same pixels, to boot < 1253987223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of them just have the characters and nothing else < 1253987280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the characters always have exactly the same pixels, to boot <-- Ryan North style? < 1253987288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I spoke wrongly; apparently "(C) Copyright by its author, 2004-2008" is for the whole FSM. < 1253987293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing has only been sucking since 2008. < 1253987298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, different amounts and arrangements < 1253987308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those comics have a name, you know < 1253987320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you mean? < 1253987341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ryan North style" vs "Dinosaur Comics style" < 1253987398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well he write that comic < 1253987408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I fail to see what is wrong with my phrasing of it < 1253987426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not inherent to ryan north to use that style? < 1253987434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he made another comic I doubt it would be the same < 1253987462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question then is: does he make another one? < 1253987524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter, the style is dinosaur comics', not ryan north's, it's that one specific project < 1253987563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seemed to understand what I meant anyway, thus the communication worked < 1253987581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loLi t00tally agree d00d < 1253987588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reallyy///agree < 1253987590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This thing has only been sucking since 2008. <-- so it was good before that? < 1253987606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sentence does not imply that at all. < 1253987622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true, that is why I was asking < 1253987653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the line before it implies I was mistaken about 2004, then I mention 2008 being when it started sucking, after mentioning earlier that it's a really bad comic < 1253987653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alternative would be it hasn't been running at all before 2008 < 1253987659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the correct option. < 1253987704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you think about that PhD comic btw? < 1253987717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link. < 1253987728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php but look at older ones for better jokes < 1253987739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think fizzie linked one of those once. < 1253987739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is even a "highlights" section under "about" < 1253987754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :love that mystery meat navigation there < 1253987756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not. < 1253987757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, quite possible. The one about thesis title? < 1253987764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ehm, I think so < 1253987768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think I linked that one. < 1253987786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*foop* You summoned me here. < 1253987796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie < 1253987804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO line of fizzie clones how ARE you < 1253987808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep sounds right. Some of those are quite good. But IME the jokes get a bit repetitive after a while < 1253987818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did the chicken cross the road? < 1253987823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get to the other side. To get to the other side. To get to the other side. To get to the other side. < 1253987831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. Hi. Hello. Elloh. Hola. Hi. We're just fine. < 1253987867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I do this, < 1253987875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((fizzie )S:^):^ < 1253987876 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fi ...too much output! < 1253987882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh haha < 1253987886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there infinite yous are only the one mentioned in my program + the ones that got output? < 1253987890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1253987891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't work when a bot does it < 1253987900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not one he coded himsef < 1253987901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does, it's just a question how much. < 1253987902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :himself* < 1253987930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1253987960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I had to kill an infinite number of clones to get the keyboard. Yes, there were many. < 1253987967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253987979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can I hire you as a hitman? < 1253987984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got some monkeys wasting time < 1253987988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd like to sell the typewriters < 1253988006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the PETA might complain. < 1253988025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((fizzie )S:^):^ < 1253988025 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fi ...too much output! < 1253988039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever one of you doesn't give a shit about animals and likes the number 29346238472348234234, come to the keyboard < 1253988072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phooey. < 1253988088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, we all decided to go get some snacks. It may take a while for us to find enough. -Z < 1253988098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Z/>/ < 1253988114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: eat the monkeys! < 1253988150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eat the monkey and win", isn't that the popular banner ad. (Really gone now.) < 1253988272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Eat the monkey and win", isn't that the popular banner ad. (Really gone now.) <-- HUH? < 1253988359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Atheists Can't Prove That Richard Dawkins Exists." --title of a post on a blog that I can't ascertain whether is a parody or not < 1253988618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: link me to that recent linux root exploit? < 1253988641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which one? vmsplice? < 1253988646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the more recent one? < 1253988654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot what the last one was about at all < 1253988655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember, but very recent < 1253988660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and going back many versions < 1253988674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something with network iirc? < 1253988697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont recall < 1253988697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't < 1253988995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well nor do I < 1253988998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can't help really < 1253989008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about a parameter not being checked properly < 1253989023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with sendpage or sendfile or something < 1253989038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for some protocols < 1253990012 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the network stack NULL pointer call? < 1253990035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it < 1253990181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1253990198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's been patched, though < 1253990214 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253990223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes Sgeo < 1253990224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no Sgeo < 1253990226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one Sgeo < 1253990229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third one Sgeo < 1253990231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter Sgeo < 1253990241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, queue of answers to the inevitable questions added to < 1253990289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is C++ a good language? Should I use Linux instead of Windows? < 1253990301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never specified the order of the additions. < 1253990336 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah. Setting mmap limit to nonzero and desuiding the pulseaudio wrapper should make exploiting it harder (and if you have SELinux, remove those mmap_zero's)... < 1253990370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just use Ubuntu's presumably-patched kernel and not install stupid software. :P < 1253990473 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder why there isn't boolean in standard SELinux policy to globally remove all mmap_zero permissions... < 1253990476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, desuiding pulseaudio wrapper? hm? why does it need suid to begin with < 1253990484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how can it be exploited < 1253990488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exploited* < 1253990514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be with a patched kernel, presumably < 1253990522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, uh, to talk to alsa or whatever low-level? < 1253990555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... yet normal apps can talk to pulseaudio just fine < 1253990588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the root-running pulseaudio daemon. < 1253990613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be running as root, rather as some special puseaudio user < 1253990645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSA dictates, presumably. < 1253990651 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that recent kernels prevent exploiting Pulseaudio for mapping the NULL page. < 1253990720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, pulseaudio should fix whatever bug allows such exploiting < 1253990736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well I mean < 1253990739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSA lets normal users speak sound just fine; my guess would be something related to real-time scheduling, if they need such tricks, latency-wide. < 1253990750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wise* < 1253990752 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the root permissions are related to scheduling or so... < 1253990758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wise, yes. < 1253990758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ps aux, find someone running a strangely named bash script, and investigate, is that creepy? < 1253990770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you already told us about this < 1253990771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh... < 1253990775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you constantly repeat things < 1253990779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, it's given real-time scheduling permission < 1253990784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it creepy to investigate < 1253990789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you about it, but I didn't ask if it's creepy < 1253990799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/xZnbZmru < 1253990806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a good move, because it turns out you should probably know whether something's creepy or not. < 1253990817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Sgeo runs around IRL asking such questions < 1253990846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that person shouldn't be teaching that glass if they recommend using up all the cpu like that < 1253990877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*class < 1253990883 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should teach Glass more. < 1253990902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glass is way too enterprisey! < 1253990910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah especially the Swedish meaning of glass < 1253990915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is en:icecream < 1253990920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to put everything in objects, like Java! < 1253990924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: esolang fail. < 1253990930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly bacon flavoured and delivered by unicorns < 1253990956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm AWARE of the common internet vernacular, and I can PROVE it! < 1253990965 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm, unicorn-flavored bacon. < 1253990974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sidenote: Vernacular. Great word or greatest word?) < 1253990975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm AWARE of the common internet vernacular, and I can PROVE it! < 1253990977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1253990985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : possibly bacon flavoured and delivered by unicorns < 1253990985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just parodying you < 1253990988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sp?) < 1253991000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not very good at it < 1253991019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I wasn't aware of that being any sort of meme or whatever. Just that you seem to 1) love bacon 2) love unicorns and ponies < 1253991031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus unicorn ponies < 1253991035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well < 1253991051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, AnMaster; I legitimately love unicorns and ponies. < 1253991074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what I did is not against the acceptable use policy, unless "private files" covers everything in ~ < 1253991075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as opposed to illegitimately loving them? < 1253991078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1253991096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can't resist that underage unicorn horn. < 1253991099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem. < 1253991114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1253991124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: doesn't really matter, poking around and getting into shit when it's not (a) fun or (b) necessary is probably inadvisable. < 1253991138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm unicorn < 1253991143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about bicorn? < 1253991154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and popcorn too I guess < 1253991162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called a deer. < 1253991181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on where they are mounted < 1253991416 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually out in the forest. < 1253991420 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where all the *corns get it on. < 1253991427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to mention that, dammit. < 1253991442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nooooo, I went, "ELLIOTT, FOR ONCE BE MATURE AND DON'T TURN THE TOPIC TO DEER SEX". < 1253991453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might sue you. < 1253991471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1253991478 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric: A channel for and about deer sex. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1253991501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric: for deer sex, by deer sex | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1253991509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are all the abstract concept of deer sex. < 1253991533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric: for dear sex, by dear sex | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1253991599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it should represent the views on that stuff quite well in here. < 1253991622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric: for unicorn sex, by deer sex | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1253991634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric: for unicorn sex, by pony sex | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1253991647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric: pony up for sex, unicorn sex | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1253991659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X| < 1253991667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legalise unicorn prostitution! < 1253991674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALTERNATIVELY < 1253991683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fully support ponies having sex with unicorns, if that's what they're up for. < 1253991694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great value: two jokes for the price of one. < 1253991818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts installing Haskell stuff < 1253991826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: install the haskell platform. < 1253991831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1253991834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1253991851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, use emacs to edit with the latest haskell-mode with haskell-indentation. < 1253991855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also installing Leksah and WinHugs (does WinHugs use the Haskell platform?) < 1253991857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you like gnawing your hair out < 1253991861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: fail < 1253991864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :winhugs uses hugs instead of ghci < 1253991869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different implementations < 1253991892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but does hugs implement all the stuff that the platform provides to haskell programs? < 1253991903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Platform is just GHC + some libraries. < 1253991910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hugs fails. It's old and doesn't support many of the things GHC does. < 1253991912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hugs is freaking old. < 1253991920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like 3 years out of date. < 1253991924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As Gregor can attest, even Hugs' author tells people to use GHC. < 1253991941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, officially on the website? < 1253991948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, when teaching a course. < 1253991949 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, to his students. < 1253991953 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a professor at PSU. < 1253991960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1253991969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Leksah provide a pretty interface to GHCi, or otherwise have a shell environment? < 1253991983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what is wrong with plain ghci? < 1253991987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leksah can run GHCi expressions, but it's kind of rubbish. < 1253991988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leksah? I'm sure it does. Leksah is actually maintained. ;) < 1253991993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he's a stupid windows user who doesn't use the CLI :P < 1253992001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1253992001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Kind of rubbish at running GHCi stuff, that is.) < 1253992012 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a WinGhci. (But it's annoying.) < 1253992016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: also broken < 1253992023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it freezes on startup if you resize the windows < 1253992029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows has cmd.exe. < 1253992030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1253992040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :................. < 1253992044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF does resizing a window have to do with whehter it freezes or not? < 1253992053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's a game < 1253992057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because unmaximizing it stores the window position in the registry < 1253992061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the code that reads it if it's there must break < 1253992062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unless it's a game <-- wth? < 1253992065 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't see that here. I just see the wab tab complete doesn't work, and Ctrl-C creates a modal dialog box instead of just... stopping < 1253992079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does being a game has to do with it < 1253992082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wab tab complete < 1253992089 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/wab/way < 1253992093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, well, I would expect that a poorly designed game engine might not respond well to having to change where it's drawing to < 1253992107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I can't imagine what sort of game would do that < 1253992117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a windows one. < 1253992148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about graphics, so.. < 1253992152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stop ruining my anti-windos attack by cutting it short < 1253992161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(typo intentional) < 1253992175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say windows one because every game is on windows. < 1253992192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the supertux and tux racer developers have probably gone to great lengths ensuring that it works at 8x42 resolution. < 1253992194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hyperbole fail < 1253992204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253992207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so are you seriously suggesting a gamer could use linux as their only OS. < 1253992208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nethack too < 1253992223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, last I heard portal worked great in wine for example < 1253992227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe < 1253992231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee, portal < 1253992231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough to be sure < 1253992238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a whole one recent game that linux supports, then < 1253992240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a short one, to boot < 1253992248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and that "last I heard" was about 2 months after it was released < 1253992251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so meh < 1253992306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finally figures out why Leksah is called Leksah < 1253992317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1253992323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering that too < 1253992328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskel backwards. < 1253992330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reverse the letters < 1253992333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1253992344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that "Leksah" sounds crap < 1253992346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to go for lolcats for "lexer" < 1253992353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounded closer < 1253992355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that. < 1253992393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, rearranging audacity toolbars is a bitch < 1253992410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? You are doing sound editing? < 1253992453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, works just fine here < 1253992461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2TlM0zDLh0 sounds sort of like a beat, so I wanted to speed it up, make it sound more like a beat and then put some silly synth notes on it to be silly, but audacity is making me rather do something more productive like, say, shoot myself < 1253992490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: drag all the toolbars out, add the main play/record/etc buttons, put the L/R volume meters next to it, then try to add the volume+device selection control as a new toolbar below it < 1253992512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm what is wrong with standard layout < 1253992526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an eyesore, plus they aren't arranged in any coherent fashion < 1253992526 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I broke Leksah by being lazy < 1253992531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just all over the place < 1253992548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, worse or better than gimp? < 1253992566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimp only works well if it's the only thing on your screen, but recent versions have some sort of interaction design < 1253992582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tool options kinda suck and the menu too but the rest is semi-ok < 1253992658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interaction design? < 1253992701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically like "UI design", except you start from "how do we accomplish this final task, and what's the most steamlined, discoverable way of doing it?" instead of "how can we arrange the buttons so they're easier to get to?" < 1253992717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e., less retarded. well, the latter are still useful, but only if you have a former.) < 1253992742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crud < 1253992748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does Leksah store its data? < 1253992758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m found it < 1253992762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for just reminding me why I hate designing GUIs < 1253992777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because you're a programmer, and don't care about non-programmer users? < 1253992786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, programmers are bad at designing UIs, no shit, who doesn't know that? < 1253992786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, duh, just use ghci in either cmd.exe or urxvt < 1253992791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both exists for wincrap < 1253992792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leksah is not a ghci. < 1253992800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, correct < 1253992802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying "wincrap" makes you sound like an imbecilic 10 year old. < 1253992811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: leksah is an advanced editor < 1253992818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if you will, "non-visual studio IDE" < 1253992824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253992835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens to have a keybinding meaning "send the current line to ghci, and give the response". < 1253992856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you were talking about evaluating GHCi expressions in it though < 1253992856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1253992861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, urxvt doesn't exist for windows. < 1253992864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only rxvt does, and only with cygwin. < 1253992869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, msys < 1253992875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msys = fork of cygwin. < 1253992881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it uses rxvt, not urxvt. < 1253992883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1253992889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msys is an even shittier fork of cygwin than cygwin < 1253992894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and maybe I misremebered the u then < 1253992898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's both old, and you have to use a patched gcc 2 to compile apps for it < 1253992906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well you could compile urxvt for cygwin if you wanted to I bet < 1253992910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253992913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rxvt-for-Windows is a port. < 1253992918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because rxvt requires X, you see < 1253992923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cygwin has X < 1253992936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and if you recommend it you have clearly never used a windows environment and then tried it < 1253992948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say I recommended it < 1253992949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(being forced to use windows and installing cygwin as an escape hatch doesn't count.) < 1253992959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being due to not recommending windows to begin with < 1253992959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sgeo, duh, just use ghci in either cmd.exe or urxvt < 1253992962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like you did < 1253992975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since he said he was using windows anyway < 1253992976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1253992992 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, I can't add fonts to cmd windows? < 1253993002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edit the registry, or stop being a fag and use Consolas. :P < 1253993031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or stop being a pipe and use linux? < 1253993034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1253993046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe cigar < 1253993050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... just ... the ... shut up. < 1253993058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This package is only intended for licensed users of Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 or 2008." < 1253993065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just the shut up" <-- why just it? < 1253993068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what is? < 1253993074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just the shut up why just it? < 1253993075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consolas Font Pack < 1253993077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can ignore punctuation too. < 1253993084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so fucking what. < 1253993091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get it with powerpoint too < 1253993093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1253993097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some free download anyway < 1253993117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird sure < 1253993177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I have to install cygwin to use Leksah? < 1253993199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: linux also works < 1253993215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unbalanced tags < 1253993236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implicit start tags. just like the valid omitting of

< 1253993239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1253993247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not valid in my book < 1253993270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implicit start tags aren't, but end tags are. < 1253993289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is invalid omitting of end tag. Not invalid omitting of start tag < 1253993307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....Leksah just opened < 1253993310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only in sgml < 1253993310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, well the w3c is widely respected and you're some malcontent on IRC, so I think I'll ignore your blathering and go with what the actual HTML standard says. < 1253993315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, in HTML too. < 1253993318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't sgml. < 1253993339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i prefer xml over html < 1253993365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't give you the right to decide that i'm talking in xml, also fuck off, I don't give a shit, it's talking on IRC, not a vali-fucking-dator < 1253993366 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML is an extension of SGML, isn't it? < 1253993375 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, but not fully compatible < 1253993390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1253993394 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1253993442 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-92-96.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1253993504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will just use GHCi < 1253993692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and emacs + haskell-mode + haskell-indentation. nothing else can indent haskell with accuracy < 1253993711 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would require me to learn emacs :/ < 1253993744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-x C-s saves, C-x C-f opens a file, C-x C-c quits, M-x regex-replace or replace-regex, I forget, does what it says on the tin < 1253993971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I can't really try out these examples with GHCi < 1253993986 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B132C0D.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253993998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So put them in a file and run them. < 1253994006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God you're tirin. < 1253994007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tiring < 1253994013 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1253994142 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253994351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you tried windows 7 right? < 1253994381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1253994381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1253994383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a question about it: is it ready to use once you logged in, or does it take minutes after like vista does? < 1253994404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immediately, although I fully expect Vista is the same. windows systems decay, presumably because the software tends to fuck things up. < 1253994427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of the box, windows isn't bad... it's just that almost all commercial software fucks it up, and it's hard to totally uninstall anything < 1253994447 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1253994458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, given that vista was newly installed on my thinkpad when I got it and it then took half a minute from desktop showed up until it was ready to use < 1253994472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, that vista wasn't stock. < 1253994479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1253994488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lenovo had their way with it, for one adding ThinkVantage - you have a button for it on your keyboard - and god knows what else they decided to give you < 1253994507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 is a lot more lightweight than vista, though < 1253994518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux take maybe 1 or 2 seconds after desktop show up until it is ready to use. so maybe 5 seconds after pressing enter after entering password? something like that < 1253994522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a semi-recent graphics card (= enough to run Aero) it's very snappy < 1253994531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snappier than XP, I'd say < 1253994534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most things < 1253994554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 being snappier or vista being snappier? < 1253994557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 < 1253994569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253994691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably dual-boot ubuntu and 7 on my notebook < 1253994704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm not sure what disk space to give 7 with the probable anemic disk space of 160GB < 1253994798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah so drop windows? < 1253994816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't feel like battling with WINE. < 1253994827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, virtualbox? < 1253994838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry, what did you just say? slowbox? < 1253994852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really with hardware support for it < 1253994860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're running a word processor. < 1253994870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite acceptable, of course not like 100% native speed, good enough for most non-3D apps < 1253994879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does have 3D support < 1253994882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-3d apps for windows are basically useless unless you're doing CAD or something. < 1253994885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux has it all. < 1253994895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well cad is 3d < 1253994899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not realtime 3d < 1253994924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : linux has it all. <-- yeah, thus no need for windows ;P < 1253994932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"non-3d apps" < 1253994948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems like the cheapest price for a new 160 GB X25-M is 290 pounds < 1253994960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's heavy < 1253994963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$462 sure is a sweeter price than the >$700 they cost over here (and over there) last generation. < 1253994970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, I can ignore words like "price" too. < 1253994974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this kb has no pound key in linux < 1253994982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was too tempting to avoid < 1253994993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :£ < 1253994994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1253994999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is altgr-3 < 1253995007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth a try < 1253995033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did that work? < 1253995080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well? < 1253995094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know of that < 1253995095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work here < 1253995105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's what I'd like to use < 1253995149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try Swedish kb layout, it works then < 1253995155 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how much does it weigh when it's full? < 1253995180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, almost another 290 pound I guess < 1253995188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: well let's see < 1253995202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking for the figure for one gb < 1253995226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, how does harddrives and SSD compare in weight? < 1253995238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SSDs are much lighter < 1253995242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253995246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :81g for some samsung 256G(i)B SSD < 1253995267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: < 1253995269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every Gigabyte counts as 5oz of extra weight for your computer.There has been cases (in computers with 1Tb of Hard drive and more) of people left eMule activated 3 days and when that people returned to the computer,there was a hole in the floor instead" < 1253995288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about 22.67kg < 1253995298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: it gets lighter the more you store < 1253995304 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253995343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you see that really high-resolution thinkpad screen i mentioned? < 1253995348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1253995358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't generally logread < 1253995364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:08:26 ok, the highest PPI display I know of that isn't the ibm thingy: the 2048x1356 15" for thinkpads < 1253995364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:08:32 163.75 PPI < 1253995364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:08:39 *squints* < 1253995397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the highest one then < 1253995399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can put them in T60s (with some hacking) and two R models of a similar time, iirc < 1253995403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the ibm twhatevers < 1253995406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 200something ones < 1253995407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1253995408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really thick < 1253995411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253995418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these are notebook-sized < 1253995418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desktop displays? < 1253995437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.tigerdirect.com/itemDetails/t221-med.jpg < 1253995438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you remember < 1253995439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the t221 < 1253995446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1253995449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1253995450 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1253995451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said you wanted one < 1253995454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple times < 1253995454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1253995459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that one < 1253995460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1253995473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it was a NEC that I wanted < 1253995480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't high-ppi < 1253995485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, 2048x1356 is the kind of stuff you see in 30" displays and there's basically nothing more < 1253995495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so packing it into a semi-light, thin 15" is just awesome < 1253995501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, good colours is better than high dpi < 1253995524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about colours if you can fit 10 windows on the screen < 1253995534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd take a monochrome with a huge ppi < 1253995546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: better type < 1253995578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, colours > fonts < 1253995587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're a photographer. < 1253995592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. < 1253995609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but typographers have a science behind it and photographers just throw shit together, so eat a dick, colours < 1253995626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, photos also have a science behind < 1253995645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of studies on that sort of stuff < 1253995652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as on typography < 1253995652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing like typographer. < 1253995654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*typography < 1253995664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about the same I would say < 1253995672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1253995677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because judging a photo is still ultimately just subjective bullshit < 1253995684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so with type < 1253995883 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1253995891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epiphany webkit is so unstable :( < 1253996294 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod -R 5777 / < 1253996307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat. < 1253996311 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod -R 5777 / < 1253996314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1253996339 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod -R 5777 / < 1253996349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Windows opens GHCi when I double-click a .hs file, can I force the resulting window to use an icon? < 1253996369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo really cares abut his specific terminals having an icon. < 1253996444 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@83.194.169.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1253996486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wat. < 1253996528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Submitted 6 minutes ago, 2022 upvotes, 2 downvotes" --reddit < 1253996546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now: Submitted 10 minutes ago, 2078 upvotes, 13 downvotes) < 1253996668 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1253997359 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1253998246 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1253998468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : chmod -R 5777 / <-- 5777? < 1253998480 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setuid < 1253998485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1253998487 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And sticky, for some reason) < 1253998502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, reason for this complete messup of system? < 1253998518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just like f***ing things up? < 1253998564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ok. Easy to fix in freebsd, running mtree as root < 1253998574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't fix it for non-base system though < 1253998638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Glass TC or not? < 1253998672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a brainfuck interp, and I think it's unlimited-tape. < 1253998677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1253998685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do flow control in it? < 1253998743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the loop should be possible to use for it < 1253998744 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a while loop. < 1253998747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253998824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you could recurse. < 1253998843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is chmod -R 5777 / setgid too? < 1253998892 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1253998900 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be 7777 < 1253998911 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or 6777, if you don't care about sticky) < 1253998927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7777: the permissions of the kings. < 1253998994 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1253999032 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Mas permissions, or lamp test permissions... < 1253999038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :77777; it has all the permissions, but it's also simultaneously a FIFO, a character device and a directory. < 1253999047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1253999057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, lamp test? < 1253999059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid mode :( < 1253999062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAMP, presumably. < 1253999084 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 'lamp test segment'. < 1253999096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I still don't get it < 1253999108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Christmas tree packet is a packet with every single option set for whatever protocol is in use. Also known as a "Kamikaze" packet, nastygram, and lamp test segment." < 1253999128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, I didn't know that synonym < 1253999136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I know what a xmas packet < 1253999137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1253999140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is cooler: JFS or XFS? < 1253999145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, xfs < 1253999146 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFS. < 1253999152 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QFS < 1253999152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of you: justify. < 1253999155 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zfs < 1253999160 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GFS < 1253999164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all three of you: justify. Gregor: butterflies. < 1253999173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ButterfliesFS < 1253999174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also tornados. < 1253999175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of them. < 1253999179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butterfly-tornado-fs < 1253999213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, jfs is known to cause issues (corruption) with vmware for example, and other apps. Also the defrag tool for jfs is not available for linux. While the online defrag tool for xfs is < 1253999232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use vmware, and I don't need to defrag an SSD. < 1253999235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and xfs supports lot of cool features that jfs doesn't < 1253999242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multipath stuff and what not < 1253999243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like? < 1253999246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's multipath? < 1253999296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not something you will use. It's for redundant setups... Like multiple ways to reach the same hardware. IIRC xfs has some file system driver level support for it < 1253999302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make the best possible use of it < 1253999310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, doesn't really bother me. < 1253999321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure about online resizing with jfs, xfs supports it though < 1253999328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what about btrfs? I gather itm ostly has a cool internal structure like ext4 and no actual real-world fun features. < 1253999331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in my experience xfs is really good < 1253999333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it's also unstable, presumably.) < 1253999341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is harddrive experience < 1253999344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about SSD < 1253999369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway xfs has lots of real-world fun features < 1253999376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since Ilari isn't about to justify... < 1253999378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1253999381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The performance difference for XFS vs JFS vs ext3 probably won't be very large. < 1253999394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would go ext4, not ext3 < 1253999397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not ext4; if I'm going fun, I'll go *fun*. < 1253999410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext3 is what Ubuntu does by default when you use one of the predefined install options, I think. < 1253999412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "*fun*"? < 1253999414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's ext4 I'll use that instead. < 1253999415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ReiserFS4 8-D < 1253999421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, just no < 1253999421 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was picking from XFS and JFS. And since I have seen what XFS does in just regular system lockup... < 1253999425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: just don't name any files nina! < 1253999430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HYUK HYUK < 1253999432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FS won't kill ya :P < 1253999451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually phones home. Nina was using a pre-alpha version, we were going to be next... < 1253999458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^ Could make a really, really bad movie) < 1253999472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you forgot a "really" there < 1253999502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be WORSE than plan9 from outer space < 1253999523 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still better than Gayniggers from Outer Space < 1253999528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9 is a good movie, from what I hear; bad, but that gives it art. < 1253999533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm far more interested in things that are simply bad. < 1253999548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9's redeeming quality is its hysterical badness; but a movie on the outskirts of badness is just really, really bad. < 1253999550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is far more fun. < 1253999575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you laugh because a part's really bad, it's probably not just bad. :P < 1253999594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are saying plan9 is so bad it is good? < 1253999595 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On another topic... do you know if is a way to recover from the root device on linux disappearing and reappearing. < 1253999600 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have a USB HD) < 1253999612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, rebooting? < 1253999622 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking something that left everything intact < 1253999631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, using a tmpfs as root to begin with < 1253999638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Plan 9 is probably so bad it's good, yes. < 1253999640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never seen it myself. < 1253999652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I seen short sections from it < 1253999662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a few seconds long < 1253999669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite horribly bad < 1253999672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, does anybody know if Ubuntu optimises hibernation? Because on this desktop, it takes like 30 seconds to hibernate and resuming is really slow too. < 1253999675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and horribly bad plot on wikipedia < 1253999679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does LinuxOnIce have an Ubuntu package or something? < 1253999704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, takes like 10 seconds to suspend to disk and 5 seconds to resume for me on my laptop < 1253999710 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is the tmpfs thing something you know will work or just an idea? < 1253999710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care about resume time (RAM-based suspension ftw) but I want to hybrid-sleep so I can not worry about losing my data, and that should only take one or two seconds. < 1253999710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suspend to ram is of course a LOT faster < 1253999731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X can hybrid-sleep in about three seconds on this non-SSD computer, so... < 1253999733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, well it will obviously not depend on the root device then < 1253999739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, so thus it should work < 1253999755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, of course you need quite a bit of ram for it < 1253999759 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1253999777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't really care about resume time (RAM-based suspension ftw) but I want to hybrid-sleep so I can not worry about losing my data, and that should only take one or two seconds. <-- don't think linux does that < 1253999777 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally I want something like there is for nfs... < 1253999786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, oh? < 1253999797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, just use an internal disk < 1253999800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple solution < 1253999804 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you lose network, everything that tries to use it just hang until the network scomes back, then continues as normal < 1253999817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, that depends on options < 1253999820 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my internal disk makes funny noises and doesn't mount < 1253999833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, um. time to get a replacement < 1253999833 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I will get it fixed soon) < 1253999849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fix" is out of question < 1253999851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just replace it < 1253999858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does what? < 1253999859 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant# < 1253999863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there's hybrid-suspend. < 1253999867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does what? < 1253999871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't really care about resume time (RAM-based suspension ftw) but I want to hybrid-sleep so I can not worry about losing my data, and that should only take one or two seconds. <-- don't think linux does that < 1253999890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, but afaik that isn't what suspend does on linux < 1253999900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in ubuntu < 1253999907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care what the menu items do. < 1253999914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1253999948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, hm < 1253999990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "what do you mean, hm" < 1254000032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: pm-suspend-hybrid < 1254000038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course linux does it < 1254000076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254000101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, apparently that's not the same as os x's behaviour < 1254000104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is linux so retarded < 1254000139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is os x behaviour and what is linux behaviour? < 1254000169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x's is "do the same writing out that hibernation does, then RAM-suspend; if we reboot before resuming, it wakes from hibernation" < 1254000181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since OS X's hibernation is so fast, this allows quick resume times while being safe < 1254000204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux's is, I don't know, but from what I gather it does something similar, except it wakes from hibernation when you turn it on < 1254000209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the only thing you skip is the BIOS and GRUb < 1254000210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GRUB < 1254000220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== most retardedly pointless thing ever dreamt of in the history of the universe < 1254000326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1254000346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as far as I can tell from the documentation < 1254000353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what's up with that; but with "s2both" (which does the "write hibernation stuff to disk and go to s3 sleep or whatever) the waking-up is just a second or two. < 1254000367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :importantly, fast suspend and fast resume are super-important on notebooks, and yet I won't carry a batteried notebook around knowing my data is stored so fragile in RAM < 1254000372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but writing to disk still takes quite a bit of time < 1254000377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need what I said: fast hibernation that then suspends to RAM and resumes from RAM < 1254000408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: surely doesn't have to be the case; OS X does it in one or two seconds with 2.5GiB of RAM of which I've used almost all and a notebook HD < 1254000433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe depends on speed of disk < 1254000468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either 5400rpm or 7200rpm, don't know. My notebook will be maxing out the 1.5Gb/s (gigabit) original-SATA bus with my SSD. < 1254000471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the hybrid-hibernation I've been using certainly resumes from RAM. But the write-to-disk stage is not really very fast on Linux; I'm not sure how it compares to OS X, since I haven't ever gotten the iBook to do anything else than suspend-to-RAM. < 1254000496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the motherboard's my biggest enemy in that machine... only original SATA, limited to 3GiB of RAM (with BIOS hacks, you can get something like 3.7GiB)) < 1254000544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not a full 4? < 1254000565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody had more than 2GiB those days, so they just reserved a whole GiB for graphics card memory + internal system stuff + blah blah < 1254000585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice they use something like .3-.5GiB, but if you plug in too many components like ExpressCard you may run out, I gues < 1254000587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guess < 1254000615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if I use all 3.7GiB (all of it, all allocated and not in swap or anything) then the absolute theoretical minimum time it can suspend to disk is 19.73 seconds < 1254000617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limited by the SATA bus < 1254000622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not more than 4 GB? < 1254000628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming memory latency is 0 < 1254000638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 32-bit address space, I think < 1254000639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the mobo < 1254000642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the cpu can be 64-bit < 1254000645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254000654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 bit you mean < 1254000663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, whatever < 1254000671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is the physical adress space of current x86_64 cpus= < 1254000675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/)/ < 1254000684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpu itself is 64-bit < 1254000687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see e.g. registers < 1254000693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1254000705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you can plug in 8GiB or whatever (well, maybe; it might not accept that) but it still just reserves the top GiB of the address space < 1254000715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, I'll probably use the BIOS hack to up this to ~3.7GiB < 1254000722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually my intel core 2 duo is 36 bit physical but 48 bits virtual < 1254000729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even work on theories to get more out of it < 1254000748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the architecture can go up to 64 bits in theory yes < 1254000774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I can only use 4GiB if I use the T61 or later, and the only 4:3 screen they had was a not-very-popular 14" with a quite low resolution < 1254000780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and non-IPS < 1254000785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't you claim non-widescreen was dead when you talked to me about me buying a notebook < 1254000786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll have to dela < 1254000788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deal < 1254000807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is, nothing is sold any more in 4:3 < 1254000813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, based on my love for widescreen desktops, I assumed this was a good thing < 1254000823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you were wrong < 1254000827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usual < 1254000846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the group of jerks called, they want their jerk back. < 1254000866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice reply < 1254000907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw my desktop claims: < 1254000910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual < 1254000941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my old sempron has larger physical address space than my core 2 duo < 1254000943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by far < 1254000949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good that the T60 was wildly popular, so me and my T60p should have a lot of fellow users to get by in this modern world... < 1254000977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, core 2 duo, SSD, almost 4GiB of RAM, 1600x1200, it isn't such a horrific world :P < 1254000981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're feeling restricted by the 64 gigabyte physical address space of the core 2? < 1254000996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, alternatively get a very high res widescreen notebook? < 1254001010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus giving you the possibility of having multiple windows side by side < 1254001011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1254001019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or larger screen < 1254001029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes it seems so < 1254001043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is a mobile core 2 duo, not sure if that matters < 1254001061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly you need a server cpu to go higher < 1254001068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xeon or such < 1254001070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spelling?) < 1254001134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly; the Core 2 Quad Q9400 says "36 bits physical" in /proc/cpuinfo, at least. < 1254001146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254001147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about the i7 hardware. < 1254001195 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254001195 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254001196 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254001198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254001200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254001200 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254001203 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254001245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that's a bit strange. < 1254001248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"address sizes : 32 bits physical, 48 bits virtual" < 1254001282 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254001282 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254001282 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254001282 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254001282 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254001282 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254001282 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-069-215.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254001314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's on the "model name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU 230 @ 1.60GHz" box. I guess it makes sort-of sense there. < 1254001338 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I found a Xeon. < 1254001355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Xeon E5430, to be specific: address sizes : 38 bits physical, 48 bits virtual < 1254001359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's two more bits. < 1254001461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still two less than my old sempron from late 2005 < 1254001468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe early 2006 < 1254001530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD seems to do that 40 bits across the models; it's 40 on your sempron, 40 on my Athlon X2, and 40 on our Opteron 248 and Opteron 2220 SE cluster nodes. < 1254001707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1254001729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sure have access to a lot of computers < 1254001751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the 48 bit virtual about? < 1254001781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1254001785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's about the 48-bit virtual address size limit we've talked about and all. < 1254001785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is where it can map it < 1254001788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in virtual yeah < 1254001801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 36 or whatever is how much physical it can adress < 1254001832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might even map directly to the number of address pins. < 1254001873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might yes < 1254002114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it seems to read from the CPUID results (how surprising) when those are available. Though there are quite a lot of constant phys_bits settings too; like phys_bits = 36 when X86_FEATURE_PAE exists. < 1254002418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some comp.os.vms posting where some guy says desktop Nehalem variants (incl. i7) have 36 physical bits, Xeon 5500 (which I guess is the Nehalem server-side) series have the same 40 bits AMD does, the upcoming Nehalem-EX eight-core server chips should do 44 bits, and Itanium in general has 50 physical bits. < 1254002459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsourced statements, of course. < 1254002487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Itanium: for when you have 1TB. < 1254002488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TiB < 1254002503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1254002504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024TiB. < 1254002513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a petabyte. < 1254002522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pebibytes, you mean. < 1254002524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Pebibyte < 1254002535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so, though it sounds a bit silly. < 1254002545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the bi expansions are < 1254002547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're cute! < 1254002560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as silly as the next one: exbibyte. < 1254002561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what an exabyte is < 1254002563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, exbi < 1254002565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha snap < 1254002568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exbibyte! < 1254002574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a yobibyte. < 1254002580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yobibyte is my new favourite thing ever. < 1254002582 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zebibyte in-between. < 1254002616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should really get cracking with hardware design so that we'd get to actually use those names. < 1254002669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the imaginary-but-easily-derivable binarified SI prefixes? < 1254002692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debibyte. Cebibyte. Milbibte. < 1254002694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Milbibyte < 1254002709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fembibyte. Atbibyte. Zepbibyte. < 1254002745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, pibibyte. < 1254002746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nanbibyte... or would that just be the more easily pronounceable nambibyte? < 1254002746 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recommends that any of you not reading the latest MS Paint Adventure (Homestuck) should be < 1254002750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: All of these are sub-bits. :P) < 1254002792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debibyte sounds very Debianish. Though it is a bit unclear whether that's a binary decibyte or a binary decabyte. < 1254002814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hebibyte is 2**7 bytes. < 1254002826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Decbibyte, then. < 1254002834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2^7 < 1254002860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a decbibyte 2^3 then? < 1254002864 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sebibyte"? < 1254002874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: from? < 1254002874 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has some kind of cold < 1254002879 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*semi < 1254002887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1254002905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Decabibyte and decibibyte, I guess. :P < 1254002913 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semi + byte = sebibyte < 1254002924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But semi isn't an SI prefix. < 1254002926 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a binry semi, not a SI one ;-) ) < 1254002957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The obsolete prefixes such as myrio- and myria- (denoting a factor of 10,000) were dropped before SI was adopted in 1960, probably because they did not fit this pattern, no one-letter symbol was available (M, m, and µ already being used; the two-letter symbols mo and ma were used instead) and were rarely used anyway. < 1254002970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mybibyte. (Bonus: Sounds like mebibyte.) < 1254002992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the rounding involved in 2^3 and 2^7, but I guess you don't very often happen to have 2^(10/3) or 2^(20/3) bytes. < 1254003003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either 16384 or 8192 bytes, I guess. < 1254003062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a decabibyte is 2^3 = 8 bytes, that's a reasonably useful size. You don't have to say "this structure contains three qword-wide fields" when you can opt for "this structure contains three decabibyte-sized fields". < 1254003071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254003107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The z and y on the extreme prefixes zepto-, yocto- and Zetta-, Yotta- suggest the start of a series backwards through the alphabet. Following the initial letters are distorted Greek numerals (h)epta- and octa-. This pattern has been extended further, with the terms xenno-, weko-, vendeko-, udeko- and xenna-, weka-, vendeka-, udeka-, from Greek ennea-, deka-, endeka-, dodeka-; sometimes a t is added for greater differentiation, though both xento-, wekto- et < 1254003107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c. and xenta-, wekta- etc. have been proposed.[7] < 1254003118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The chip is controlled by the memory-mapped decabibyte register at address ..." < 1254003129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vendekobibyte. < 1254003149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vendeko is 10^-33; someone else work out the power of 2. < 1254003168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More usefully, 10^33 is vendeka. < 1254003169 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^-110? < 1254003171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Vendekabibyte. < 1254003178 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^110 < 1254003183 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about < 1254003191 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the approximation gets a bit shit by that point < 1254003199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,073,741,824 yottabytes. < 1254003219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Yes; it's 2.98074215 * 10^32 off. < 1254003223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR THEREABOUTS < 1254003243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that's so sci-fi. < 1254003275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wait a second, just let me insert my holographic three vendekabibyte memory cube." < 1254003295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Mother was an impressive system, fitted with the latest giga-core processors -- 10,000 of them. Among its specifications included a vendekabibyte of memory, 1 million vendakabibytes of storage and a webcam and microphone in every home..." < 1254003295 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have seen a 4TB thumb drive < 1254003303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: presumably not USB < 1254003310 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in fiction though: http://dresdencodak.com/2007/06/12/the-witching-hour/ < 1254003321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your search - vendekabibyte - did not match any documents." < 1254003324 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*she stored brain scans on it) < 1254003328 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ( < 1254003343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, well, the vendeka is an unofficial unit that I've just got from one page and I just made up the binary mangling of it. :P < 1254003349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: surely the brain stores over 4TiB < 1254003353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let alone 4TB :P < 1254003383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "have been proposed" made it sound so serious. < 1254003429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from "The Physics Hypertextbook", don't you know. < 1254003435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then a yobibyte. <-- read that as yoshibyte first time around < 1254003452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a-me, the mariobyte thumb drive! < 1254003453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A yoshibyte is green and it's got a long tongue. < 1254003468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it bytes. < 1254003471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crickets* < 1254003529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1254003531 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does Yoshi eat so much stuff? < 1254003545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, cartoon physics < 1254003548 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he's bigger on the inside < 1254003566 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to recall any other character that is bigger on th einside < 1254003568 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inside < 1254003574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoshitardis < 1254003576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fan fiction < 1254003576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make < 1254003577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1254003577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go < 1254003606 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before you say it, Nibbleronians use compression not spacial distortion < 1254003617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think < 1254003618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone < 1254003619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was going to say that < 1254003620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So Vendekabibyte. <-- read that as vendettabibyte < 1254003630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may call me Vbyte? < 1254003635 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, 'cause I told them not to < 1254003764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, time to invoke rule #34 on yoshi? < 1254003778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eww) < 1254003812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I estimate the probability of the result of that rule 34 already existing in this spatial dimension and being distributed on the internet as about 99.72%. < 1254003825 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254003830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fuck you, Google images. < 1254003841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"VndiB for Vendettabibyte". < 1254003861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd watch that. < 1254003867 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION [redacted] being bigger on the inside [redacted] though that doesn't really count as 34 because it never left my head < 1254003881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: WHY DIDN'T YOU REDACT THAT WHOLE SENTENCE. < 1254003884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1254003890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, fuck you, Google images. <-- there is yoshi porn? < 1254003899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and I'm not surprised at all. < 1254003909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eww < 1254003918 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he's using new erotiGoogle < 1254003926 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to litterally fuck it to get search results < 1254003935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yoshi porn" on Google Images without safe search: one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, weight. < 1254003942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eight < 1254003945 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"weight"?! < 1254003947 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254003954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First page, that is. < 1254003975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how many pics are there in total? < 1254003982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, one of them is hermaphroditic, so this is possibly the most stereotypical google images search result ever. < 1254003986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 18. < 1254003991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254003998 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254004005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 images contained Yoshi. < 1254004007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, change topic < 1254004016 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o my < 1254004020 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicorn sex < 1254004020 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1254004024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1254004031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 57.14% of the search results concerning Yoshi were porn. < 1254004035 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where cn i get somma that < 1254004040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: in #1,000! < 1254004042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my. < 1254004044 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1254004052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what ehird said < 1254004222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254004225 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to get food to help reducse his running nose. < 1254004225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 12-cell thinkpad battery here < 1254004229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.9kg < 1254004238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, give or take 0.0718474 and a bit. < 1254004248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how much does your 6-cell weigh, I wonder? < 1254004254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have the patience to take it out and check < 1254004255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't check easily atm < 1254004260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is charging < 1254004268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite the imposing thing: http://www.laptoppartsexpert.com/i-59115-battery-12-cell-li-ion.html < 1254004270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a few hours until it chargesd < 1254004274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look like it has a rounded end, though < 1254004275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't want to abort it right now < 1254004283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it looks to have the same footprint as a 6-cell < 1254004285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe poking out a little < 1254004313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that + UltraBay battery must surely pump some battery life < 1254004351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks to be only for the G40/G41, that, but I'm sure they all work with other models too < 1254004375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't work with mine iirc. mine says 12 V I think < 1254004393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again I can't easily check since the text is on the side hidden from view when it is charging < 1254004400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G40/G41 being Celeron/Pentium 4 desktop replacement systems < 1254004428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the t60p appears to be 10.8V too < 1254004431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smartbright.co.uk/ibm-thinkpad-t60p-laptop-batteries-4400mah-p-229.html < 1254004517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that looks similar, but not identical, to mine < 1254004529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly different connector < 1254004534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 12-cell is probably third-party < 1254004610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this and the ultrabay battery = 1.14kg total battery solution < 1254004612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good < 1254004632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure those can pump out 6 hours from a T60p < 1254004654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if new yeah, but they degrade over time < 1254004668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'll replace them < 1254004702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it a dual core cpu? < 1254004710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; Core 2 Duo. < 1254004714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First generation. < 1254004715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254004722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freq? < 1254004729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.0 or 2.33GHz. < 1254004738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from 2006. < 1254004743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the wavelength? < 1254004752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 quarks and a tachyon. < 1254004770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But seriously, wut?) < 1254004770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1254004790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1254004794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, frequency and wavelength. didn't you take physics? < 1254004800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware what wavelength is. < 1254004811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just checking whether it was something actually meaningful in the context of CPUs that I wasn't aware of. < 1254004822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not that I know of < 1254004832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will note that I responded to your nonsensical-in-context physics with the same. :P < 1254004843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1254004887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like I need an Ultrabay Slim battery. < 1254004903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still incorrect... UNLESS you reverse polarity. However that would probably short the CPU so thus the real answer is of course 1 quark and 2 tachyons < 1254004907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which weighs 280g. < 1254004911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Up to 2 hours", apparently. < 1254004919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1254004920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"T60 series, use the Advanced Ultrabay Battery instead < 1254004920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254004922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Which weighs 280g. <-- XD < 1254004926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n"/"/ < 1254004935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The advanced ultrabay battery weighs 235g. < 1254004947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh g < 1254004949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not kg < 1254004950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254004960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them ThinkPads sure are portable. < 1254004970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1254004987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"UltraslimBay"; distinct from the Ultrabay Slim. < 1254005001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used in ye olde Pentium 1 machines and such. < 1254005116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultrabay Slim, a British DJ, big beat musician, record producer and pioneer of the electronic dance genre. Or was that Fatboy? < 1254005140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254005147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could make some sort of IBM-themed music piece under the "Ultrabay Slim" name. < 1254005191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally gangsta business machines. < 1254005253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254005259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Used in ye olde Pentium 1 machines and such. <-- oh? < 1254005267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to Pentium III, even. < 1254005280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that like ultrabay but way back? < 1254005314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just a slim version, obvious. < 1254005336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254005348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wat? < 1254005391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw I have "Serial Ultrabay Enhanced" < 1254005404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serial Ultrabay killer. < 1254005419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is Serial Ultrabay Slim too, but that is older < 1254005425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is the very last < 1254005545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw there is a compat matrix on http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Ultrabay < 1254005555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I saw that name from there. < 1254005575 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254005763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like the T41 was the last IBM ThinkPad. < 1254005810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the T42 might be too < 1254005862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the T43 < 1254005866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the T60 was the first Lenovo. < 1254006273 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-198-44.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254006698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no T5x? < 1254006734 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.104.250.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254006741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, no T5x? < 1254006741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ehird_ (n=ehird@91.104.250.251) has joined #esoteric < 1254007004 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254007215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254007480 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: T5x was skipped, yeah < 1254007483 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also no T3x < 1254007741 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254007742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254007901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1254007939 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they skipped winamp 4 because nobody wanted to see a winamp 4 skin. < 1254007945 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the official explanation) < 1254007974 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254007988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they called it Winamp 5 because it was made by combining Winamp 2 and Winamp 3. < 1254008003 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was another explanation. < 1254008021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes, they are both "official" in the "is in their FAQ" sense. < 1254008051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally "We think that a Fibonacci sequence for versioning might be pretty damn cool." < 1254008094 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254008128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use grahams number for it. So g_1, g_2 and so on < 1254008149 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rather infeasible < 1254008158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, well yes < 1254008188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how large g_1 and g_2 are though < 1254008275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g_1 is already 3^^^^3, where ^ is the up-arrow, so it sounds pretty big. < 1254008281 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: unimaginably < 1254008306 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the typical explanation of graham's number goes through so many mind-boggling steps that you cease to have any sort of recognition at all about what kind of number it is or even that it's a number; just meaningless symbols < 1254008309 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out that's just g_1. < 1254008335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1254008339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about g_0? < 1254008349 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illdefined. < 1254008354 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-based indices. < 1254008355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1254008397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets define g_(-n) to be 1/(g_n) < 1254008449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the TeX/metafont versioning, but using that would just be copying. < 1254008501 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a random number (previous+1,inf]. < 1254008608 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-155-78-185.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254008872 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3^^^3 is already 7625597484987th of 3, 27, 7625597484987, ... 3^^^^3 is much bigger. < 1254008933 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the largest number the human mind can emotionally recognise is. < 1254008971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly over 9000 at least < 1254008991 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you at absolute zero? < 1254008998 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no can't be, you certainly aren't an ice burn < 1254009001 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never change, however < 1254009004 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always unfunny < 1254009010 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ MOST ELABORATE BURN EVER? < 1254009020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, I wonder if it may vary individually < 1254009023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit < 1254009036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean about how larger number you can emotionally understand < 1254009046 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt it < 1254009050 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monkeysphere is constant, for instance < 1254009075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1254009088 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number) < 1254009100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about "how many people you can consider human" right? < 1254009105 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1254009111 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably about 150 for humans < 1254009128 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which rather depressingly debunks the idea that direct democracy can work humanely for >150 people) < 1254009185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure who said "Democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the other ones". < 1254009191 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :churchill. < 1254009198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254009212 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was both witty and a crazy warmonger < 1254009221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds familiar < 1254009223 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the former tends to obscure the latter. < 1254009232 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hey, i'm a pacifist :P < 1254009244 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if you ask the british yooth, churchill is that dog in the insurance adverts. oh yes. < 1254009244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is some truth in that quote though. Sadly < 1254009276 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB8r6JefDhI) < 1254009309 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there was an actual survey done.) < 1254009342 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254009345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, hm "not available in my region" < 1254009394 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a different one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESOGyiZbUrc < 1254009421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok works < 1254009475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, ok that's silly < 1254009488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most ads are though < 1254009503 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you possibly expect our yooth to know the name of the prime minister that won wwii < 1254009507 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me < 1254009521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wwii, is that some sort of new variant of the Nintendo Wii?" < 1254009576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254009671 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, its something that's just plain unimaginable for those that didn't live through it... :-> < 1254009706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, just like the Wii. < 1254009844 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: you can't say that if you didn't, did you :P < 1254009852 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although i wouldn't be surprised if you did) < 1254009982 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are things in world that one knows that are just plain unimaginable... They are so far from everyday experience that all mental approximations about them fail... < 1254010035 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really think that applies to WWII, although of course there are assumptions in that statement. < 1254010058 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being in any war is scary; you don't care if 10 other countries will be obliterated too if the threat is that yours might be. < 1254010224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1254010402 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, civilization failure level events are really scary (the end of the world as we know it)... < 1254010461 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop trying to shatter my illusion that society will be just fine in the ~70 years i have left. < 1254010470 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait, ~60 years < 1254010481 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe even 70 years, being young. < 1254010499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, Haskell lets me manipulate floating point stuff easily < 1254010503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been looking for that < 1254010505 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254010507 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more than any language < 1254010547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/Prelude.html#t%3ARealFloat < 1254010552 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If civilization fails in wide enough area at once, the death toll is going to be HORRIBLE. Spanish flu caused a couple in remote areas. IIRC, 90% of population died in those cases. < 1254010561 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yah, every language has that dude. < 1254010579 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: become a hermit y/n < 1254010592 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-150.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254010609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a function equivalent to decodeFloat in Python? < 1254010637 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a task for hardcore survivalists... I'm not one of those... :-) < 1254010642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, this is not what I was expecting < 1254010687 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like civilisation mostly. < 1254010808 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i was wrong, there is a t30 < 1254010820 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no t31+ < 1254010845 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-7.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254010872 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254010873 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tendency seems to be that as technology processes, the safety margins in civilization shrink. And as consequence, civilization becomes more and more vulernable to unexpected external events. < 1254010879 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1254010974 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :western civilisation seems to be happily bumbling along for quite a while now < 1254011197 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global-level or even regional-level massive disturbances are rare. I was refering to magitude of those required for massive trouble decreasing... < 1254011234 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``yeah < 1254011235 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1254011235 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yeah < 1254011240 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying that we've been lucky so far. < 1254011266 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You really think modern civilization wouldn't be in serious trouble with 1918-level pandemic? If that's not enough, what about black-deth level (and both have happened and mostly didn't take down civilization)? < 1254011278 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*black death < 1254011329 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254011355 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Of course it'd be in trouble. < 1254011365 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that we've had a continuous western society for a long time. < 1254011405 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254011606 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason those disasters are rare is because there aren't that many possible (known) causes for those. Severe pandemic, Supervolcano, Very powerful magnetic storm... < 1254011618 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...pirates... < 1254011754 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254011842 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last exceedingly powerful magnetic storm was year 1859. Auroras all the way to Hawaii. Telegraph systems getting fried by the energy coupling into wires. Wires spontaneously short-circuiting by excess voltage... < 1254011896 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was a GHOST. < 1254011898 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ghost pirate. < 1254013438 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254013970 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-57-235.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254014421 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254014950 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254016625 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254017808 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone even use Gib? < 1254017850 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 Gib = 128 MiB.) < 1254017873 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to Gb (gigabits), where 1 Gb = 119.2 MiB. < 1254018499 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254018619 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1254018640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird_ < 1254018687 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1254018753 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254018932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.somasuite.org/screenshot/somax11_2.png worst interface ever < 1254019242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a calendar doing in there? < 1254019250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1254019329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254019414 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000734.html < 1254019598 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"palinsesto" < 1254019724 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.250.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254019975 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What the flying fuck? < 1254020010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the flying fuck: the worst cartoon character ever < 1254020013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i know right < 1254020019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something to do with music < 1254020054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtle hilarious detail: there's a *whole menu* for NextSong < 1254020064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing can queue up songs so flexibly it needed a menu < 1254020118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outstanding. < 1254020129 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, wait. < 1254020135 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That screenshot is on the site for that program?! < 1254020141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1254020149 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, this is what they think is a GOOD screenshot for the program? < 1254020188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's the "SomaX" program though. their mere SomaPlayer is much simpler: http://www.somasuite.org/screenshot/soma_session.jpg < 1254020195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1254020211 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF?! < 1254020217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, their two architecture designs: < 1254020218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.somasuite.org/screenshot/somagrafico.png < 1254020222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.somasuite.org/screenshot/somagrafico2.png < 1254020228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you say astronomic complexity?! < 1254020255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the stick figure in the latter is more appropriate than they could possibly know < 1254020271 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their architecture design involves storming a castle. < 1254020281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a castle of complexity! < 1254020294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they forgot the dragon, also known as their UI. < 1254020306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be in front of the moat of lava, representing a moat of lava. < 1254020367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :related: < 1254020372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Seems to be perfect. * < 1254020373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/procmail/procmail-11/procmail/src/procmail.c < 1254020378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just click it and scroll, I dare you) < 1254020544 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that "Palinsesti" is the only untranslated word. < 1254020558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a horrible feeling it's not meant to be translated < 1254020566 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same 'ere. < 1254020575 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a word entirely unique to SomaX. < 1254020582 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :owowowowowow < 1254020583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they couldn't think of any other way to spice up the word "Listings" < 1254020588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they just translated it to italian. < 1254020598 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254020606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your brand has to PENETRATE your users < 1254020611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's just a single feature. < 1254020633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the "Stop for:" < 1254020640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, just in case you want a few seconds or a few hours of silence. < 1254020657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or want to watch that YouTube video and then listen to music STRAIGHT AFTER. < 1254020712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CANNOT TOLERATE A MILLISECOND OF SILENCE < 1254020728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ought to include an option to click the mouse button at a certain time < 1254020741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just position your cursor over the youtube play button after setting up a silence < 1254020801 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERFECTION < 1254020832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else will you laugh at the hilarity of that porn video immediately seguing into rick astley < 1254020913 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1254020925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS A CRUCIAL FEATURE < 1254020934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it should embed the video in the pane so you can see it happen < 1254020943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs a youtube downloader & viewer built in for this < 1254020947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wait, we're inventing emacs here < 1254020952 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1254020967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x play-youtube-video-then-play-audio-file < 1254020974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka C-x C-f g / s < 1254020999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the 5th most common emacs operation, after M-x find-integer-returning-functions-with-a-string-argument-and-replace-their-third-word-with-if < 1254021062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this vague feeling you may not be entirely serious there < 1254021069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy. < 1254021103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I might be moving. what's up with that. < 1254021112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is: elephants. < 1254021116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elephants are up with that. < 1254021121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. you probably need exercise. < 1254021138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long." < 1254021179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if we are talking about moving elephants, then that might be a bit too much exercise. < 1254021253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh if you are moving because of an elephant infestation, then why haven't i seen it in the news? < 1254021265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because norway is in a bubble < 1254021269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pøssibilities are endless < 1254021279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pøssibilities indeed. < 1254021286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that ø was by accident but i decided to keep it) < 1254021298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to ask < 1254021302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, i erased then reentered it < 1254021306 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten years from now, of oerjan's son: (that ø was by accident but i decided to keep it) < 1254021320 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oerjan will name his son "ø", btw) < 1254021341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it'll be "bumble bumble at 48 i am so old i am practically collapsing with mental fog bumble bumble" < 1254021353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might not be wise, since it basically means "er" in norwegian < 1254021358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254021363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What's your name?" "Er." < 1254021369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You don't your name?" "Yes I do!" < 1254021372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What is it then?" "Er." < 1254021381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"..." "I told you! It's er!" < 1254021384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...whatever." < 1254021391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't know your < 1254021397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally the er. < 1254021432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh the chance of my having a son is somewhere below the chance of earth being hit by an asteroid. < 1254021447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hit/destroyed/ < 1254021480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out that body of literature we fed the singularity was mostly rape-based fanfiction. turns out you're the 7,302th smartest person alive. < 1254021506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not entirely sure how an AI has children, though < 1254021507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1254021514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't even know. < 1254021616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good. < 1254022068 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1254022760 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 < 1254022771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old. :P < 1254022776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's timeouting now. < 1254022804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes Haskell had good use as a language to know for a career < 1254022835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it does, if you start your own company or work for e.g. Galois or Well-Typed < 1254022847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to sit in a cubicle following irrational demands from your incompetent boss, sure, it's useless < 1254022880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, considering that I have no desire to be a manager... < 1254022904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo excels at non-sequiturs < 1254022928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you want to sit in a cubicle following irrational demands from your incompetent boss" I'm not exactly going to be running a company any time soon < 1254022942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proceeding line: < 1254022943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: it does, if you start your own company or work for e.g. Galois or Well-Typed < 1254022964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter has absolutely no relation to your line, and the former - you can't exactly "manage" a startup with as many employees as are countable on your hand... < 1254022968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You imply that Galois and Well-Typed does not have incompetant managers? < 1254022985 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't Galois die in a duel? < 1254023000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering Galois is dons + some people and use Haskell basically exclusively, and Well-Typed is a two-person Haskell consultancy firm, I'd say they're very competent < 1254023008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tinned_Tuna: yes < 1254023026 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a useless nugget of info from my equally useless head ;-) < 1254023028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chance of me getting a job with Galois or Well-Typed = 0, then < 1254023029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'd say that Haskell is only useless for an easy but depressing career. < 1254023045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want such a career, why bother souring your programming hobby by association? < 1254023085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that on my resume, I can say I am proficient with $lang < 1254023096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-sequitur yet again. < 1254023101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either < 1254023120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) you want a non-soul-crushing programming career, i.e. joining a good company, which gives the possibility to use a language like Haskell, or founding a startup, < 1254023121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, < 1254023132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) you want a soul-crushing programming career in a big company in a boring language < 1254023145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (b), then there are plenty similar jobs that don't make you sour your programming hobby by association with your job < 1254023167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any paths leading to "Haskell is totally useless for a career" are simply bad ones < 1254023196 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say Haskell is useless for some careers < 1254023206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how do I gain experience with a language used for (b) without making it part of my hobby programming? < 1254023207 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all < 1254023224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're talking incoherently < 1254023248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a soul-crushing bigcorp job in a boring programming language = you lose the will to program for fun < 1254023270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't wish to lose the will to program for run, either go for a decent programming job (= possibility of using Haskell or similar languages) or go for a non-programming job < 1254023276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially, (b) is the worst imaginable path < 1254023346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1254023353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254024154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254027869 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254033022 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1254033502 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254033510 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254034554 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254036082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the topic and thinks #esoteric keeps sliding towards the other interpretation... < 1254036481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254037080 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254037092 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think there is something wrong with the speaker in my computer < 1254037096 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I dropped the speaker by accident and now it is mixed up? < 1254037165 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254038155 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254038172 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sucks at chess and still beat the Befunge one < 1254038176 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1254038399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254038400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254038835 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1254038849 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254039012 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254042254 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@67.180.202.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254042650 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1254042667 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@67.180.202.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254043651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a chess computer in befunge? < 1254043666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or chess program I guess is a better term here < 1254044236 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! < 1254044240 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hes not here < 1254044241 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how sad ::( < 1254045719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, morning < 1254045720 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: violet's lips moved silently. part of her was certain that the noise was as wrong as ii and ii making v. what shall we do now?' said < 1254045725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254045726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1254045726 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld* europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1254045738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah fungot < 1254045739 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " well, you see, if all a human thinks about is gold, it told his fingers. < 1254045754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I fear that style didn't work out too well < 1254045781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's true. < 1254045790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea why? < 1254045812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. Disoptimal parameters? Maybe I should try retraining with the varikn stuff. < 1254045865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "varikn"? < 1254045895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing I added. < 1254045943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254045965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 23 < 1254045966 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23| Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. < 1254045967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discworld == "varikn"? < 1254045976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean the sound samples < 1254045980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1254045983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transcriptions < 1254045987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of convos < 1254045994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean: http://varikn.forge.pascal-network.org/ < 1254046022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, variable gram size model thing < 1254046025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned that too < 1254046031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what style used it? < 1254046059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urrr, the "ct" style I think. But that's not directly comparable, since there was so little ct data. < 1254046073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1254046073 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1254046078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, talk to me < 1254046078 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone?! then i'll repair the masamune! < 1254046101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh (yeah I have played a bit of that game since) < 1254046132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, why was it called crisis arm btw? < 1254046132 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... are you all right? of course! you were so young! you ran around saying " daddy! the children are going! < 1254046135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The varikn model-trainer is the only one that's in the fungot repository, since I haven't managed to clean up the messy C++ code I used for the other styles. < 1254046135 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... < 1254046161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and our child, it's ancient history now". < 1254046175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, near immortal must have said it < 1254046213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also even though I played the game to near the end (haven't had time for the final boss yet, but finished all but one side quest)... < 1254046220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some stuff is not familiar < 1254046227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some stuff of course is but... < 1254046239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe fungot messed it up a lot < 1254046239 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alon < 1254046242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arghj < 1254046243 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ans: we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... lavos will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place... < 1254046250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1254046257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was that second one supposed to happen < 1254046262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it buggy < 1254046263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1254046272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "no, it was not supposed to happen". < 1254046278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254046284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to debug I guess < 1254046285 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254046307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, thought that "An¨¬s¶·Ÿ:" seems like fspace corruption < 1254046337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it was obviously "AnMaster:" first. < 1254046344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we are looking to achieve a shorter life span..." < 1254046345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254046349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the usual way < 1254046382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric: we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1254046465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing the later part was from: "That Gate leads to 1999 A.D... It leads to the "Day of Lavos"... Go there only if you're looking to achieve a shorter life span... Lavos will help you leave this mortal coil." < 1254046475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is what you get from the "bucket" in end of time. < 1254046480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254046494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mortal coil"? < 1254046514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"life", basically. < 1254046517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like translation failure < 1254046526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's an English idiom. < 1254046529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw the snes version differs quite a bit in translation from the DS version. < 1254046536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in phrasing and such < 1254046542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Derived from 16th Century English, "coil" refers to tumults or troubles. Used idiomatically, the phrase means 'the bustle and turmoil of this mortal life.'" < 1254046549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254046567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a new translation; but the SNES version wasn't really a badly broken one either. < 1254046575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's true < 1254046602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What a beautiful day! The Black Omen sure sparkles in the sun! What a great day for laundry!" < 1254046608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the DS one seems longer too < 1254046625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that sounds like the original yeah < 1254046625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondered a bit about it < 1254046626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mistranslation? < 1254046647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it's so hilarious it might even be pretty close to the original. < 1254046651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get very far in the DS version due to the DS emu I used sucking badly (very very poor framerate) < 1254046662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsnes just works of course < 1254046670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, any traces of how that bug with the bot above might have happened? < 1254046675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw log or anything < 1254046675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DS-only quests are a bit boring. < 1254046748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is the raw log, but it's not really that helpful: https://pastee.org/gypyw < 1254046856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing the babble-generator wrote somewhere it shouldn't have, but it's pretty hard to reproduce, without a log of the random numbers involved in producing that sentence. < 1254046901 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-23-204.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254047001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what do you call the "the"-form of a noun? It's "bestämd form" in Swedish, but I need the English term for it < 1254047019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same for the "a"/"an" form < 1254047047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The" is called the "definite article", while a/an is the "indefinite article"; I'm not sure if it's just directly those for the noun too. < 1254047070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well in Swedish definite article is based on a suffix < 1254047082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I need to discuss a Swedish mistranslation in a bug report to a game here < 1254047103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1254047172 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254047707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder if the bug in the bot is reproducible btw < 1254047723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or if it is a cfunge bug. hm < 1254047728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe fungot messed it up a lot < 1254047728 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in the middle ages, sir slush!... i grow so tired. we can talk. we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! < 1254047730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254047741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was worth a try though < 1254047792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing it's a fungot bug, the text generation is pretty messy. < 1254047792 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. < 1254047826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Don't you start threatening me. And what hatch? < 1254047826 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! please return, you will some day! the black wind... < 1254047842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like talking to a wall. < 1254047846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the text from the snes or DS version? < 1254047853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNES version, I think. < 1254047896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be wrong, though. It was just some fan-transcript from the web; hopefully extracted from the ROM, but I guess it's possible someone did it manually. < 1254047898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be interesting to base it on input. look pick a word in the input phrase and see if found and then start the text generation on that < 1254047904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something such < 1254047920 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254047929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, . < 1254047930 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. we must now carry out his sentence. hold your horses! i want to dance! ladeedadeeda! got some spending so much of his time doing research on lavos. but you have it...determination, i mean... < 1254047953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I do? < 1254047953 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...! < 1254047965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, stop repeating yourself... < 1254047965 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! < 1254047986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would, but it'd need a reverse mapping from text to tokens, which I don't have. < 1254047997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, you need to go to an asylum I think... < 1254047997 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped!! < 1254048069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "he's really a tricycle" is pretty hilarious out-of-context like that. (Though the bot overuses it a bit.) < 1254048163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was the contex t? < 1254048165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context* < 1254048248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from one of the endings; the one where Marle and Lucca are watching a slideshows. It's referring to THE MAN! of course. < 1254048275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254048295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mangahelpers.com/t/shrimpy/releases/12409 < 1254048362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also notable for being probably the only place where Crono says something. < 1254049392 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254052189 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254054072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually looking at that raw log from fungot makes it looks like the buffer wasn't properly cleared the first time < 1254054085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when could it overwrite the buffer with odd chars < 1254054303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1254054406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I do use some of the input IRC message buffers as temporary storage when they're no longer needed. Nothing should really write to the actual SOCK 'R' buffer, from which it extracts newline-separated IRC messages. < 1254054425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254054441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just a "should". < 1254054553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use line 0 for reading in data; then I copy full newline-terminated messages out of it into line 3, then extract the message parts to lines 4-x (prefix, command, options); the message handlers then reuse line 3 for constructing the reply message, when a reply is needed. < 1254054646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254054722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess in most cases I have a constant 'p' offset, or at least a constant Y coordinate, which should make accidentally writing to wrong place pretty unlikely. But there might still be bugs. < 1254054921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well; time for some outdoorsy things. → < 1254061993 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254062064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklopol! <-- i think i haven't seen him in a while < 1254062246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1254062275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There is no such thing as iwc < 1254062286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254062453 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yey, my interpreter works :-) < 1254062539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, one should never ask kyros rhetorical questions. < 1254062566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, agreed < 1254062600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably goes for several other characters too < 1254064016 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254066173 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nermal.org/misc/javascript.jpg < 1254066948 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254068811 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254070668 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-45-187.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254070774 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: heh < 1254071208 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254072438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://nermal.org/misc/javascript.jpg <-- huh < 1254072508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1254073801 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT1XuB95qMk&fmt=18 + headphones = awesome < 1254074014 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1254074177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Exploded OK" < 1254074560 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254074621 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254076125 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254077164 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254082205 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254083177 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@67.180.202.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254083402 0 :Tinned_Tuna!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1254084171 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254084345 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is AnMaster's site always down? < 1254084349 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he hosting from home? < 1254085399 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254085418 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes hosting from home and his mom shuts off his computer when he falls asleep X3 < 1254085446 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254086050 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Panu should host more files at the Esolang archive (e.g. Bashfunge) so they aren't lost to the ages :-P < 1254087199 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-159-109-233.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254087344 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1254087978 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254087981 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1254088088 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254088289 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254088682 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(belated) hi < 1254088733 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it's not so belated that impomatic had already left < 1254088877 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite :-) < 1254089059 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254089071 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's new, impomatic? < 1254089077 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatcha been messin' with? < 1254089105 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, not much at the moment. I've been pretty lazy. < 1254089129 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I made a new website but that doesn't count as programming. < 1254089182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iRnW_PP9RtYpGgoc5KZiwY84hjrQD9AVNJ303 < 1254089227 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1254089730 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia is already updated with it, heh < 1254090777 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://retrocode.blogspot.com" < 1254090930 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254091399 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@67.180.202.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254093277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254093588 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254093595 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool link: http://shinh.skr.jp/obf/ < 1254093598 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)) < 1254095412 0 :_s_k_y_!n=Red@cpe-70-95-187-195.hawaii.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254096065 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, saw that one a few days ago while looking to see if there already exists any BF interpreter written in Python < 1254096074 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh < 1254096076 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In sed* even < 1254096097 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made one which works sans I/O (well, output simply prints all of memory atm) < 1254096589 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254098478 0 :_s_k_y_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254098479 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-167.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254098594 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254099218 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254099368 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254101716 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254103105 0 :supfoolz!n=10039756@h82-net08.simres.netcampus.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1254103110 0 :supfoolz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hihi < 1254103214 0 :ludamad!n=10039756@nat023.dc-uoit.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254103300 0 :ludamad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust Foolz (>-)*8(>[-])*20 < 1254103316 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ludamad_Foolz: 14.7 < 1254103406 0 :ludamad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1254103407 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1254103415 0 :ludamad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help brainfuck < 1254103416 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for brainfuck! < 1254103422 0 :ludamad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!info < 1254103423 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null < 1254103435 0 :ludamad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1254103436 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1254103621 0 :supfoolz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254105567 0 :ciribot!n=10039756@199.212.8.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254105949 0 :ludamad!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254107137 0 :ciribot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254108224 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1254110570 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254111950 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-168-55.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1254113288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys have some sheet music kthx http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op11.pdf < 1254113298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dankon. < 1254113730 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is pretty proud of this insane mess. < 1254114080 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254118182 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-209.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254119035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is this your random music maker? < 1254119068 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The one in my head. Which is not particularly random. < 1254119073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254119091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you make a midi? < 1254119101 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could, but I refuse to :P < 1254119104 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have a .ogg if you'd like. < 1254119107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1254119127 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op11.ogg < 1254119130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can tell that would take too long for him to work out on a piano and, what's more, he lacks a piano < 1254119133 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254119205 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should get a keyboard < 1254119270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what then are you typing on? < 1254119271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254119279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, math test < 1254119566 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So you hypothetically play the piano, minus the whole having one thing? < 1254119575 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: used to < 1254119585 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like everyone "used to" play something. < 1254119589 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1254119612 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice piece, though < 1254119620 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well thankee < 1254119622 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254119660 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, it would have been beyond my ability to play back when I did have a piano) < 1254119743 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially like the 12/8 parts < 1254119780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody who I send it to has a different preferred part. This is probably a good thing. < 1254119894 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one question - is the 9♪ notation common? < 1254119900 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, made it up :P < 1254119923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suggests that Gregor perform his 11th opus < 1254119929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254119936 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op11.ogg < 1254119938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's the ogg. < 1254119939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1254120004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite nice. < 1254120018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads the rest of them too :) < 1254120021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION follows along on the sheet music < 1254120027 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I would advise that you do not :P < 1254120033 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254120036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe op. 9 < 1254120040 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op. 10 is awful. < 1254120042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1254120044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op. <9 is awful :P < 1254120094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has a very low opinion of himself. < 1254120104 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only my music. < 1254120120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 5th through 8th opuses are wonderful, as is the 10th. < 1254120128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 9th I've not heard performed well enough to say. < 1254120146 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my head it's quite nice :( < 1254120154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the synth takes something away form it < 1254120156 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from < 1254120170 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a spooky piece < 1254120196 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it turns out, relatively anonymous computer scientists have a hard time getting quartets to play his pieces :P < 1254120224 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you can find a better synth < 1254120254 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a worse one < 1254120258 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather find better humans ^^ < 1254120270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not bad enough to be truly spooky, and not good enough to be good :D < 1254120344 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what program do you use? < 1254120350 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rosegarden. < 1254120357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat :) < 1254120365 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And, by proxy, lilypond) < 1254120386 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any chance I could get the file for 11? I might want to split it into bits < 1254120399 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's linked on http://codu.org/music.php < 1254120404 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks < 1254120465 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more than a bit wonko though, as I created it with notation in mind. < 1254120482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. it has extra tracks for combining multiple parts in one staff. < 1254120487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254120511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's just that it would make great atmosphere music, just not the whole thing at once < 1254120534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 is not terrible; it feels a bit random so far though < 1254120552 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIDIfied it's pretty awful. Could be better, but again, I made it for notation, not MIDI. < 1254120576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the banging bits are pretty bad in MIDI; probably sound better with real music < 1254120623 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"banging bits" refers specifically to? < 1254120670 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quick repetitive chords near the start < 1254120683 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's where the comment about random came from) < 1254120688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1254120705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the rest so far < 1254120716 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upon further listening, I really ought to have just cut off the beginning X-D < 1254120748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, I prefer 10 to 9 < 1254120891 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second repetitive bit is much better. < 1254120903 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignore the connotation on repetitive) < 1254120907 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254120994 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anyway, op. 11 is better than op. 10 :P < 1254120999 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254121081 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree with you there :) < 1254121266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis. < 1254121269 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You definitely have some compositional talent :) < 1254121310 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254121322 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254121358 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain, seeing that P* just joined, miscompleted it into pikhq, and I went "wait, he's already here..." < 1254121377 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took my an embarrassing amount of time to realize that the person who had just joined is, in fact, Pthing, and not pikhq at all. < 1254121387 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254121391 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mayhaps this is because it's 2AM, and I ought to be asleep. < 1254121392 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Herpaderpadoo < 1254121406 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now he's ehird. < 1254121426 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just curious, anybody here program in ETA before? < 1254121473 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yes. I'm very familiar with writing programs with an ETA of 100000 years+ :P < 1254121493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try not to program in terrorist organizations, personally < 1254121527 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ETA as in the "ETANOSHI" ("Fungal toe!") variety < 1254121549 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever :-P < 1254121715 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not :-P < 1254121821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming befunge with your feet is not strictly recommended. i guess it's on topic though. < 1254121877 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ETA ain't Befunge < 1254121887 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's an interpreter ;-) < 1254122049 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254122838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sleep is highly, highly overrated. < 1254123325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1254124799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254124800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254124831 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254125449 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254125451 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1254125788 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254127233 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B137CA8.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254127673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254131676 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254131962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great quote from fungot < 1254131962 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am, are you?! c'mon!! < 1254132072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, looks like I got the first post today < 1254132078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is glad that IRC doesn't really work like forums < 1254132301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, there was a jouster in here yesterday < 1254132304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust needs more love... < 1254136602 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254137679 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254137694 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254142446 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254142464 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254142611 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254145036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... you can learn a lot from flamewars < 1254145046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot is currently in a celsius vs. farenheit flamewar < 1254145060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently 0 degrees F has a meaning, which I didn't realise < 1254145067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 100 degrees F was meant to but they messed up < 1254145226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Kelvin is the standard. That and ed. < 1254145244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, that's almost exactly the same argument in the two respective flamewars < 1254145934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 was meant to? < 1254145961 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was just the three 0/32/96 points < 1254145973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well, the 96 was meant to be 100 < 1254145993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it? < 1254146022 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia doesn't say so, for what little that's worth < 1254146050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just says he originally measured as 96 and this has since been corrected to 98.6 < 1254146643 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254146813 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90d13@gateway/web/freenode/x-yqgyeqvdpknwdrbk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254147957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254148009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8x42 is a great resolution < 1254148021 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254148037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what you've got X at right now? < 1254148099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's something ehird used in a hyperbole a few days ago < 1254148102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading logs < 1254148124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, when ehird gets online, I'll have to tell him that control-shift-alt-5 does regex replace in Emacs < 1254148134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot shorter to type than the M-x version < 1254148281 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "C-M-%" is a lot shorter to type than "control-shift-alt-5", in addition to working even when your % does not happen to be shift-5. < 1254148335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254148340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when your meta happens not to be alt < 1254148358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was more trying to point out what a ridiculous and unintuitive shortcut it was < 1254148365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of Emacs' shortcuts actually make sense, that one doesn't < 1254148463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, and "vendekabibyte" /still/ has no Google results < 1254148474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they need to do a recrawl of the Tunes logs, obviously < 1254148567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It "makes sense" in the sense that it's an extension of the M-% query-replace, but that one doesn't really work for me. I guess you could invent some sort of vague justification on the % glyph, though; something like it being a stylized form of "x/y", standing for "replace x with y". < 1254148765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1254148773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and everyone else too I guess) < 1254148790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1254148807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, looks like I got the first post today <-- huh? "08:27:18 Gregor: Sleep is highly, highly overrated." < 1254148819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in tunes-log time < 1254148831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. no idea what timezone it may use < 1254148842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed utc, due to that being the standard in computing < 1254148849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses one of the US timezones, I think < 1254148897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and apparently 0 degrees F has a meaning, which I didn't realise <-- what meaning? < 1254148909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: freezing point of saturated saltwater < 1254148917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it was set there to make it easy to calibrate thermometers < 1254148933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as with the level of technology Farenheit had, saturated saltwater was much easier to come by than distilled water < 1254148982 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-064-111.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254149014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254150182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and 100 degrees F was meant to but they messed up <-- what is 96 for F then? < 1254150236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: human body temperature < 1254150236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an awful thing to base a temperature scale on, as it isn't particularly constant < 1254150256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I was more trying to point out what a ridiculous and unintuitive shortcut it was <-- not really. C-M-% doesn't seem so silly? < 1254150272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: holding down /three/ modifier keys, then pressing a digit? < 1254150278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes and? < 1254150286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what other program uses that sort of shortcut? < 1254150320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. iirc Visual Studio used stuff like C-, release, press another key < 1254150324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that equally bad? < 1254150335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(emacs has those too) < 1254150340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-x C-c for example < 1254150365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me those are both equally weird < 1254150366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are less bad, I think < 1254150386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can hold control with the little finger of the left hand and press x and c in a row with the second and third < 1254150393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it an amazingly fast shortcut to type < 1254150398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-M-% needs both hands... < 1254150417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it doesn't. However it is rather uncomfortable to use only one hand < 1254150449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumb on alt. index finger on 5, little finger on ctrl, finger next to little finger on shift < 1254150455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good idea, but works < 1254150474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise alt and 5 on the left hand and ctrl and shift on the right hand < 1254150494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(due to there being no alt on the right side, only altgr, which is quite different) < 1254150514 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1254151064 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254151259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 98.6 fahrenheit in celcius < 1254151261 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example: convert 98.6o Fahrenheit to Celsius. 98.6 - 32 = 66.6 66.6 * 5/9 = 333/ 9 = 37o C. There is a mental math method to approximate the Fahrenheit to ... < 1254151273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1254151304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254151308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 98.6 fahrenheit in celsius < 1254151308 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98.6 degrees Fahrenheit = 37 degrees Celsius < 1254151451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : they need to do a recrawl of the Tunes logs, obviously < 1254151469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had the impression google doesn't crawl the logs reliably at all < 1254151501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i don't find things when searching for them, although some pages are there < 1254151606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at least i don't find things when searching for them, although some pages are there <-- that is why you instead use grep locally < 1254151637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would require me to download the logs, though < 1254151660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus that lets you search for who said something, quite useful if you know who you were discussing it with but nowhere near when < 1254151661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1254151960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I assumed utc, due to that being the standard in computing <-- duh, that would have been far too convenient and rememberable < 1254151968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannot have that < 1254152154 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254152194 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Afaik the logs uses some Americanish time format? < 1254152288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably host local time < 1254152319 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:06:32] making it an amazingly fast shortcut to type < 1254152324 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about us poor dvorakians? :< < 1254152336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can remap all their Emacs shortcuts to the same relative places on the keyboards < 1254152343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(someone probably was mad enough to do that...) < 1254152349 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolly < 1254152460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is true, C-x C-c is fast < 1254152473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (someone probably was mad enough to do that...) <-- pretty sure yes < 1254152479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen an .emacs for it < 1254152489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading up on the recent Reddit worm < 1254152512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like redefining the keys, rather than remapping each individual key. then redefining self insert to insert the key that actually is on the key < 1254152518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1254152536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that way even those in various modes and such were properly remapped < 1254152585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would make sense < 1254152593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I love the concept of redefining self-insert-command < 1254152605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of, the command that makes Emacs an editor rather than an OS < 1254152634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reddit worm? O_O < 1254152717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was < 1254152718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been fixed < 1254152730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically there was an exploit in the parser that let people post arbitrary JS on link mouseover < 1254152746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the JS spammed instances of comments containing such links all over the thread < 1254152749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also into people's inboxes < 1254152763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so after a while, there were loads of links full of hex all over Reddit < 1254152830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-of interesting, actually, as you have to write a quine to do that correctly < 1254153118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1254153164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have made it so it advanced 1 step in a calculation every time it spread < 1254153173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could use Reddit worms to do parallel computing via people's browsers < 1254153173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how long ago was that? < 1254153186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yesterday, apparently < 1254154850 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254154883 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-124-89.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254154920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/games/bin/gvba: Symbol `_ZTIN3Gtk6WidgetE' has different size in shared object, consider re-linking < 1254154920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1254154921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never seen that one before < 1254154925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :predictably it segfaults < 1254154939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen that error before either < 1254154967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why a source based distro is so much better, relinking is trivial, while on ubuntu it would be a more complex process. < 1254154982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, since ubuntu isn't rolling release it is less likely to happen) < 1254155057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails in this way after that first message: < 1254155059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gvba:2272): glibmm-CRITICAL **: Glib::Interface::Interface(const Glib::Interface_Class&): assertion `gobject_ != 0' failed < 1254155059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gvba:2272): glibmm-CRITICAL **: Glib::Interface::Interface(const Glib::Interface_Class&): assertion `gobject_ != 0' failed < 1254155059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1254155067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254155074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was compiled in 2007 says eix < 1254155610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you think about this: < 1254155613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* app-text/passivetex < 1254155613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Available versions: 1.25 < 1254155613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Homepage: http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Software/passivetex/ < 1254155613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Description: A namespace-aware XML parser written in Tex < 1254155616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1254155627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any opinion; should I have one? < 1254155635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, just read the description < 1254155640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that no one sane would write an xml parser *in* TeX < 1254155648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's TC, isn't it? < 1254155649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a reasonable one < 1254155660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then, which one of you made it? < 1254155677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, and it even has console IO iirc < 1254155684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, haha < 1254155891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: someone submitted an entry in TeX at the 2008 IOCCC contest < 1254155903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which considering it was a real-time routing task, was quite impressive < 1254156021 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, if it's TC it's doable :D < 1254156045 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then surely someone must've done BF in TeX < 1254156082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um don't those have to be in C? < 1254156099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? there were lots of entries in other langs < 1254156105 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there? < 1254156107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was in C because it looked like the best lang for the job < 1254156108 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know that either < 1254156133 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254156139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure this is IO_C_CC ? < 1254156148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... I meant ICFP < 1254156167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspected that < 1254156196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although with a TeX entry it sounds like someone else was confused... < 1254157101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more fun, it won the judges' prize < 1254158178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, one thing works, when I search "internet protocol", manually type in the names of the protocols, and add a "port number" column, it gives the correct answers. But "color" for HTTP gives a URL, and "Command" for "HTTP" is "yes" < 1254158185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I want a version of yes that works over the web < 1254158218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Should I learn emacs, or vi? <--- ouch DO NOT ASK THAT QUESTION ANYWHERE < 1254158370 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@81.50.161.98 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254158664 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254159237 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254161398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Should I learn emacs, or vi? <--- ouch DO NOT ASK THAT QUESTION ANYWHERE <-- why not? The answer is obviously emacs anyway. < 1254161420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: flamewars are bad < 1254161437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's one of the easiest ways to incite a flamewar in channels with a high percentage of Unixy people < 1254161450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you might get away with it on support.microsoft.com or somewhere highly Windows-centric like that < 1254161456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even then, you'd get a bit of one I suspect < 1254161518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I hate the karma thing; I mentioned offhand yesterday in a conversation that's this new three-monitor setup is nice; today the biggest and newest monitor (the 24" 1920x1200 one) of the three went and completely died. < 1254161520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on support.microsoft.com you should ask about notepad vs. wordpad I guess < 1254161539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is it under warranty? < 1254161540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, warranty? < 1254161550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just no, they're both awful < 1254161553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I already asked it < 1254161559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about warranty < 1254161566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1254161566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, they'll recommend Visual Studio < 1254161585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is apparently decent for Windows development, even though I've known it to take over 10 minutes to load < 1254161593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anything you *could* make a flameward about on support.microsoft.com (is that a forum or something?) < 1254161603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 10 minutes? what sort of computer < 1254161605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has a forum, although it isn't a forum itself < 1254161608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can figure out, it should be; bought April 2008, and should be three years. Though I'm not quite sure what they'll do since the actual model is discontinued, and the newer ones seem very focused on the 16:9 1080-line things. < 1254161613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quite a powerful one, it was doing stuff over the network though < 1254161618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, ais's warranty question was here before AnMaster's. < 1254161649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so it's not completely dead: the USB hub still works. It's just that a two-port USB hub the shape of a 24" TFT is still not especially useful.) < 1254161649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, two second difference here :/ < 1254161649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my favour < 1254161673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, won't they have to replace it with a comparable product? < 1254161686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any screen is better than a dead one < 1254161712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they will, but their view might be that a new 1920x1080 screen is "comparable" to a 1920x1200 one. But it doesn't work in this multihead setup as well. < 1254161755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we'll see. Oh, and the chain has closed their nearby stores, too. < 1254161784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well you will have to tell them that you need same hight due to using it in a "professional work-critical multi display setup" or something < 1254161806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mission-critical. < 1254161811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes that's the term < 1254161820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you get the basic idea anyway, refine it as required < 1254162064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254163694 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-233.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254164400 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B133779.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254164996 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-162-151-229.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254165029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1254166667 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254166737 0 :coppro!n=coppro@csi.calgaryscientific.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254167024 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254170467 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254170587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254170590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there? < 1254170599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does backspace after ∉ change it into a ∈ for you? < 1254170612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea why? because selecting with arrow selects the whole thing < 1254170613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1254170633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does; and it's probably made out of a composed character. < 1254170656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, ∈ and the compositing /. Those work a bit confusingly sometimes, w.r.t. selection and backspace. < 1254170669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1254170670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combining, I mean. < 1254170685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ⊊ < 1254170685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not composing. Although I guess you could say it like that too. < 1254170715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a custom character; there's not really a / that'd apply to a part of the character. < 1254170759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I don't really know. If I copy the U+2209 not-an-element-of, ∉, directly, the backspace still removes the slash from it. < 1254170773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess something's doing some normalization somewhere, but I'm not quite sure who's responsible. < 1254170787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1254170798 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode characters are working badly on this computer < 1254170824 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every line with a Unicode character has something like 4x the line height < 1254170837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same thing happens with "does not divide" and "not parallel to" characters; ∤ and ∦. For those backspace here also removes the slash, even though those really aren't made out of the combining slash. < 1254170886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't experience any of that normalization behavior in CZ, but I have noticed that with combining characters in the past < 1254170912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about the curly i for imaginary unit < 1254170918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NOT blackboard bold one < 1254170941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those all do have a "canonical decomposition" entry in the Unicode database (for the base character + combining long solidus overlay), so if you were to apply that decomposition you'd get that sort of backspace behaviour. Still, it's a bit strange. < 1254170965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably look at the raw log and see if it sends out the decomposited form to IRC, or just the character itself. < 1254170977 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@83.194.188.155 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254171005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what sort of curly imaginary unit there is; do you mean ℑ, which is often used to mean "take the imaginary part of something"? < 1254171023 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254171242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mean like the i but rendered as in http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/9/d/79d8d2ba30e45d4a35d3f6c1fed419ba.png < 1254171331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's italic i. < 1254171344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: yo. < 1254171371 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254171376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't think there's a special symbol; they couldn't really start providing italic forms for everything. The "letterlike symbols" contains generally things that are more... symbol-like. < 1254171426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly there's ℹ but that's the "information source" symbol, meant to be used with the combining enclosing circle: ℹ⃝ < 1254171465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a small serifed i for me. < 1254171470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really italic at all... < 1254171477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's not italic. < 1254171490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seems I was wrong: there's a whole "mathematical alphanumeric symbols" block. < 1254171494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's outside BMP, but it's there. < 1254171509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can use the U+1d456 mathematic italic small i: 𝑖 < 1254171587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's bold, italic, bold italic, script, "bold fraktur", sans-serif, sans-serif bold, sans-serif italic, sans-serif bold italic and monospace variants of all of [A-Za-z]. < 1254171631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bold fraktur < 1254171634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's totally bad-ass. < 1254171638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, and also for [Α-Ωα-ω0-9]. < 1254171640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm naming my kid that < 1254171643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bold Fraktur Hird < 1254171657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're going to be a father?! Congratulations! < 1254171671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1254171681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a father of a bold fraktur... IN YOUR SKULL < 1254171686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1254171702 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1254171710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :werd < 1254171711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those Greek letters didn't screw with the line spacing < 1254171719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor did your mother. < 1254171742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, those are neither funny nor good insults < 1254171743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝔗𝔥𝔢𝔰𝔢 𝔞𝔯𝔢 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔩𝔡 𝔣𝔯𝔞𝔨𝔱𝔲𝔯 𝔰𝔶𝔪𝔟𝔬𝔩𝔰. (If your font has them.) < 1254171763 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I spin them around they read the same? < 1254171764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fuck < 1254171766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks awesome fizzie < 1254171790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to type in that < 1254171791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALWAYS < 1254171801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly looks very 𝔞𝔲𝔱𝔥𝔬𝔯𝔦𝔱𝔞𝔱𝔦𝔳𝔢. < 1254171802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't; I lack the fonts < 1254171819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice for 𝔢𝔪𝔭𝔥𝔞𝔰𝔦𝔰. < 1254171825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it looks *awesome* < 1254171830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: codepoints? < 1254171841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: U+1d51e onwards. < 1254171855 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it adds a lot of vertical padding to the line. < 1254171856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, it I lack the monospaced fonts < 1254171861 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox can show them < 1254171864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, they renamed the Software Store to Software Center < 1254171867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it I/I/ < 1254171918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah good < 1254171944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Admittedly there's ℹ but that's the "information source" symbol, meant to be used with the combining enclosing circle: ℹ⃝ <-- no circle here < 1254171950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a better Windows X server than Xming, out of curiosity? < 1254171952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Looks like this in XChat to me, though that's really pretty small: http://zem.fi/~fis/florb.png < 1254171983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your XChat falls back to non-monospaced fonts, I see < 1254171991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: nope, why? < 1254171996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: using colinux? < 1254172007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks quite similar for me in firefox < 1254172008 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: VM < 1254172017 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not colinux, just a regular VM < 1254172027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try colinux, it looks cool. < 1254172034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xming is the best, though < 1254172037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with it? < 1254172050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, just wondering if I was running a suboptimal variant < 1254172055 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's working great < 1254172064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried the new versions of anything, but Xming used to beat WinaXe, at least. < 1254172086 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running an X server on Windows >>>>> using a DE in the VM < 1254172110 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this alone is why X beats native windowing technologies < 1254172147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bold fraktur <-- wow < 1254172175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin's X server was popular among the 3D graphics course people, since it correctly did stencil-buffer in remote-opengl. (The official "has to run on this" platform was FreeBSD, and all the Windows users wanted to test their homework remotely.) < 1254172184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 𝔗𝔥𝔢𝔰𝔢 𝔞𝔯𝔢 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔩𝔡 𝔣𝔯𝔞𝔨𝔱𝔲𝔯 𝔰𝔶𝔪𝔟𝔬𝔩𝔰. (If your font has them.) <-- ARGH dejavu doesn't! < 1254172200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know where my xchat picks those up. < 1254172212 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you have a client that correctly falls back to fonts with symbols when they aren't available in the current one < 1254172213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could even be the Mathematica fonts. < 1254172213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My font appears identical to fizzie's. < 1254172217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1254172220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have Mathematica. < 1254172222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have them here on Windows < 1254172234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat atm < 1254172235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have Mathematica either, I just have the ttf-mathematica package. < 1254172252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I do. < 1254172270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while I haven't been the only person to install software on it, I can't imagine anyone installed anything with a fraktur font < 1254172341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I checked all installed fonts, none have them < 1254172344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ^ < 1254172354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even fonts I got from an OS X computer < 1254172390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't have Mathematica either, I just have the ttf-mathematica package. <-- is that in ubuntu? < 1254172402 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254172431 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what os? < 1254172434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stock Ubuntu install has it. < 1254172439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, maybe not. < 1254172441 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/XV6EK.png <- firefox does this too. < 1254172442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Install ttf-liberation. < 1254172454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or liberation-ttf, rather. < 1254172456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, Linux. Ubuntu atm < 1254172466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1254172467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: yeah, that's what I'm seeing. It's weird < 1254172472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sudo apt-get install ttf-liberation < 1254172473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, < 1254172476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get install ttf-droid < 1254172478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's probably liberation < 1254172480 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's to do with the font being used, not the symbols < 1254172494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, it's probably Liberation < 1254172496 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the symbols that TNR displays correctly are not causing that to happen < 1254172514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite full and type-like, which is more of a Liberation feature than DejaVu < 1254172514 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unifont should expand onto the other planes < 1254172517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, apt-get claims already installed < 1254172524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ttf-liberations < 1254172526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ttf-liberation* < 1254172529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to list all installed packages? < 1254172533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll grep ttf- to see which I have < 1254172537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1254172540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mathematica fonts are non-free, I would say. < 1254172562 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: dpkg --get-selections | grep installed < 1254172580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I've just been using "dpkg-query -l | grep ^i". < 1254172590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work too < 1254172597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go with dpkg0query < 1254172604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get-selections can filter by pattern too < 1254172605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you have ttf-mscorefonts-installer? < 1254172611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg --list < 1254172612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if coppro has them on Windows, then... < 1254172613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to work here < 1254172635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I don't have that one < 1254172639 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: isn't that just an alias for dpkg-query? < 1254172646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, install it; it'll get you Arial, Verdana, Georgia etc. < 1254172650 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just get msttcorefonts < 1254172650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, maybe. I'm really not an ubuntu user < 1254172653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And almost certainly the bold frakturs. < 1254172655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: same package < 1254172656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dpkg --list" lists also non-purged not-installed things. (Like "dpkg-query -l".) < 1254172677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but yeah, "sudo apt-get install msttcorefonts" should do it < 1254172678 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, moving back and forth between a ThinkPad and other computer is highly annoying < 1254172684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1254172686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why? < 1254172696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This package exists to facilitate upgrades to ttf-mscorefonts-installer. < 1254172696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It can safely be removed from your system. < 1254172697 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl key < 1254172698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254172705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, install ttf-mscorefonts-installer instead < 1254172709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1254172715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have mathematica-fonts, ttf-jsmath and xfonts-mathml all installed, I think any of those might have them too. < 1254172720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so stop using non-thinkpad computers :P < 1254172725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: your screenshot is identical to the text here < 1254172726 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on ThinkPads it's not the bottom-left key; that's the Fn key < 1254172728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be one I have installed < 1254172731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, I know < 1254172778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the modifier keys are small since the T43 because of the windows key; are you making any errors? < 1254172778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I'm getting one... < 1254172803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, do you happen to have xfonts-mathml? (Iceweasel/firefox suggests that -- and latex-xft-fonts, which is another possibility -- though does not really depend on it.) < 1254172818 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not other than mixing the Ctrl and Fn up < 1254172890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: aren't the alt/windows keys upsettingly small? < 1254172904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small, but not upsettingly so < 1254172907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I forget how to check if I have it. < 1254172924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm intending to use it as my only computer, so if it's at all annoying I guess I'll replace the keyboard with the T43s < 1254172924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have mathematica-fonts, ttf-jsmath and xfonts-mathml all installed, I think any of those might have them too. <-- first one is not found as ubuntu package as far as I can tell...? < 1254172926 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254172926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*T43's < 1254172936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not that, I don't have it < 1254172984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's in debian/non-free, I'm not sure what that would translate in Ubuntu, if anything. Maybe not. < 1254173005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: U+1d51e onwards. < 1254173005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo? < 1254173051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of. < 1254173055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1D51E;MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR SMALL A;Ll;0;L; 0061;;;;N;;;;; < 1254173055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, trying to paste it into oowriter crashed oowriter < 1254173067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print u'\u1D51E'.encode('utf-8') < 1254173067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᵑE < 1254173106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that \u for four-character hex constants? < 1254173107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1D400.pdf < 1254173119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print u'\U0001D51E'.encode('utf-8') instead. < 1254173123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no luck with mscorefonts < 1254173126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D56C is the first one < 1254173127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, BMP thingy. < 1254173129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried all the fonts on the text in openoffice < 1254173132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sudo apt-get install ttf-* < 1254173135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254173141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, openoffice is teh sux < 1254173141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I jumped directly to small letters, yes. < 1254173148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's 138 packages < 1254173153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know where else to try fonts < 1254173163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :character map? < 1254173167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh, and just the "fraktur" font, not "bold fraktur". < 1254173177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only fraktur is BOLD. < 1254173185 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is irritated at KDE's lack of UTF-32 support < 1254173188 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there is non-bold fraktur < 1254173196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean UCS-4 < 1254173199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should've said 1D56C indeed, since ehird explicitly specified the BOLD one. < 1254173205 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D504 < 1254173217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I DO NOT RECOGNIZE THEM < 1254173222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually, it would be more accurate for me to say 'multiplanar support' < 1254173228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yah < 1254173229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1254173242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises that writing a script to translate text to bold fraktur would be work; gives up < 1254173245 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE has a fit at anything past U+FFFF < 1254173256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE sux < 1254173261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sux dik < 1254173281 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I actually accidentally used fraktur (instead of bold fraktur) in the bits I spoke here; they're really quite similar. < 1254173282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what unicode block < 1254173296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh. i recognize bold fraktur then < 1254173324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "mathematical alphanumeric symbols", didn't I mention the name up there? < 1254173363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I forgot to list plain fraktur and the double-struck font variant in that list of what the block has. < 1254173386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no font in the char map has it < 1254173394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me which one you claim has it < 1254173406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was looking at 𝔍 < 1254173417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fraktur capital j) < 1254173438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝔑𝔬𝔯𝔪𝔞𝔩 and 𝖇𝖔𝖑𝖉 𝖋𝔣𝖗𝔯𝖆𝔞𝖐𝔨𝖙𝔱𝖚𝔲𝖗𝔯, side by side here. < 1254173452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not such a huge difference. < 1254173463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, just boxes here < 1254173463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1254173542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in jsmath either < 1254173545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them looks bold. < 1254173556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not visibly so on here < 1254173610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sudo apt-get install ttf-droid <-- nor that < 1254173620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just install every font ever! < 1254173628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's like 138 packages < 1254173629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1254173637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me what ones you have installed < 1254173677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttf-freefont, perhaps? < 1254173687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :already installed < 1254173690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttf-opensymbol? ttf-dejavu-extra? < 1254173700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both already installed < 1254173719 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254173729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check in your char map? < 1254173734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finding out which font the characters come shouldn't be this hard; I copy-pasted that stuff to openoffice, exported as PDF, ran through ghostscript with the gazillion "embed all fonts" flags, and the result was a .pdf that displays correctly all right, but "pdffonts" lists just TimesNewRomanPSMT and FreeSerif, which don't sound likely candidates. < 1254173734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one has it < 1254173747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeSeri. < 1254173750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FreeSerif. < 1254173755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ttf-freefont, prolly < 1254173772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can you verify freeserif has them there < 1254173784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since according to the char map it doesn't here < 1254173788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using jaunty btw < 1254173793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you are using karmic or something < 1254173816 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jerry < 1254173817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Character map agreed. Upgrade to Karmic then. < 1254173828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jerry: who are you. < 1254173828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, karmic was buggy last I tried it < 1254173835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need a rock solid system < 1254173842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll upgrade once it stabilised a bit < 1254173843 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karmic doesn't have ext4 bugs; is therefore >>> Jaunty < 1254173850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after it was fully released < 1254173854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what ext4 bugs? < 1254173859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karmic is only buggy if you use the messaging menu. :P < 1254173863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Telepathy < 1254173868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Empathy < 1254173869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or OO.o with KDE < 1254173871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be a UI bug < 1254173887 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the kernel sometimes locks up when deleting ext4 files on Jaunty < 1254173914 0 :Jerry!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cerise < 1254173915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, odd, never had such problems and I do use ext4 < 1254173949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the fact that it networkmanager segfaulted put me off < 1254173954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they only manifested for me after a while of using Jaunty < 1254173954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frigging font substitution thing is annoying. I don't really think gucharmap can tell where the fonts come from, since the character selection thing seems to only affect things when there are multiple sources. No matter what font I select, I get the same mathematical symbols. < 1254173965 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least gucharmap > kcharselect < 1254173978 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMP? What's that? < 1254173986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Jaunty segfaults sometimes too... < 1254174011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, networkmanager? not here < 1254174016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, I mean. < 1254174016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But indeed, Karmic is unpolished, especially if you upgrade from Jaunty. < 1254174019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "sometimes" is wrong < 1254174031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it was "didn't even start at all, so was unable to reach network" < 1254174036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, segfault always < 1254174038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :predictably < 1254174049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was some open bug about it already < 1254174054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot bug id < 1254174073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so I'm waiting for karmic to become stable before I even think about upgrading < 1254174077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside vmware < 1254174081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or virtualbox < 1254174109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I'm not kidding about OO.o on KDE. My bug was entitled "KDE file dialog is utterly broken" and no one has debated the appropriateness of the name; < 1254174111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, one font that definitely *has* those symbols is "eufm10" (from the ttf-lyx package), but it's another thing altogether whether it just contains the ascii range in that font, or also that Unicode "mathematical alphanumeric symbols" range mapped. < 1254174147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I didn't expect shitty software to segfault and leave me to fix it I wouldn't be running Linux < 1254174188 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has not seen a noticeable segfault problem on Karmic Koala Kubuntu (sorry) < 1254174240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Medibuntu Masturbating Monkey. < 1254174256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'll just install fontforge, at least that should be able to definitely tell me what a font contains. < 1254174274 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-10-16.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254174510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice messages in the terminal: < 1254174511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help! Server claimed font < 1254174511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -dejavu-dejavu serif-bold-o-normal--13-0-0-0-p-0-iso8859-1 < 1254174511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : existed in the font list, but when I asked for it there was nothing. < 1254174513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I may crash soon. < 1254174571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I may crash soon." :D < 1254174612 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254174638 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1254174728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : we must now carry out his sentence < 1254174728 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but, we are far outnumbered!!! the monster who kidnapped the princess to the castle! < 1254174731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that as "this sentence" < 1254174735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was wonderfully hofstadterian < 1254175238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. I ran find /usr/share/fonts -iname '*.ttf' and applied the result to a script that used "fontimage --text" to write something with bold fraktur in it; the end result was that in *all* fonts I got just boxes. Either it's a font not there, a font not .ttf, or something's clever enough to substitute those Unicode chars from different codepoints in a math font, which sounds unlikely. < 1254175245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Musts do other things now. → < 1254175523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It surely is .ttf... < 1254175539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I also have Humor Sans in ~/.fonts, but I highly doubt it's that. < 1254175548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.com/2009/03/xkcdsucks-is-proud-to-present-humor.html) < 1254175605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cuddlefish? < 1254175613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about that part. < 1254175674 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using different samples for caps and lowercase is a nice touch < 1254176070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Okay, one font that definitely *has* those symbols is "eufm10" (from the ttf-lyx package), but it's another thing altogether whether it just contains the ascii range in that font, or also that Unicode "mathematical alphanumeric symbols" range mapped. <-- no tty-lyx here < 1254176099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, apt-cache says it doesn't exist < 1254176121 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you know how you should never believe computer manufacturer's claims about battery life of computers? < 1254176135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ttf-lyx is not tty-lyx. < 1254176152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out that if I leave my new computer idle, it has more than 5 hours battery life O_o < 1254176160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err ttf was what I wrote in ther terminal < 1254176162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the* < 1254176167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not on irc < 1254176167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's not much life for idling really. < 1254176187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading package lists... Done < 1254176187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Building dependency tree < 1254176187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading state information... Done < 1254176187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E: Couldn't find package ttf-lyx < 1254176192 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could easily drop it < 1254176197 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn off wireless card, dim screen, etc. < 1254176211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, s/drop/raise/ < 1254176212 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a lot for my experience < 1254176222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yeah. Meant drop consumption < 1254176222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but nobody idles a computer for 5 hours < 1254176242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bleh. I ran find /usr/share/fonts -iname '*.ttf' and applied the result to a script that used "fontimage --text" to write something with bold fraktur in it; the end result was that in *all* fonts I got just boxes. Either it's a font not there, a font not .ttf, or something's clever enough to substitute those Unicode chars from different codepoints in a math font, which sounds unlikely. <-- mi < 1254176242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ght indeed be a bitmap font < 1254176268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, there's no trouble changing the size. < 1254176279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then... < 1254176303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it seems that "ttf-lyx" is in Ubuntu indeed, but only in karmic, not in jaunty. < 1254176314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I can't be sure that's what the characters come from. < 1254176330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esp. if ehird doesn't happen to have that font installed. < 1254176345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1254176352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call it the Magic Fallback Font < 1254176367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it could just be Pango shenanigans < 1254176392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be < 1254176412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how all the blackboard bold math ones in there are the same for almost all fonts < 1254176419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the gucharmap thing < 1254176424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, here's what font-related packages I have installed; at least those with sensible names (i.e. ttf or font in the name): https://pastee.org/53k6b < 1254176425 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of curiosity, is there one of a) a C++ inteface to Pango b) a mechanism to use Pango with SDL? < 1254176449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gucharmap uses fallback fonts; so if one font on your system has it, it will be used for all fonts that don't < 1254176475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, that is rather irritating if you wish to check what fonts have it < 1254176492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a SDL_Pango project, I think. Don't know if it's actually used or works or developed or recent or anything. < 1254176521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KCharSelect doesn't, but it sucks in other ways < 1254176527 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as not having the SMP < 1254176623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have ttf-lyx. < 1254176757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there is ttf-mathematica4.1 < 1254176767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I found a relatively nice font-manager which can view mapped glyphs for a font. < 1254176769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that tries to download from wolfram and gets a 404 < 1254176774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't actually work < 1254176789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? < 1254176806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: now that I think of it, you could probably hack something together using Pango < 1254176885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still just a "examine one font at a time" solution, though; I can't seem to find a "enter a glyph, find all fonts providing it" feature. < 1254176988 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, I'm saying automate it by having Pango check to see if the font has the character < 1254177001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes, you go do that. :p < 1254177041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has coded in Pango once before... and forgotten it, pretty much < 1254177148 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254177531 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254177669 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-162-151-229.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254177695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "find a font by raster image" function, but it fails. Also browsing through sample texts didn't really help. < 1254177748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the only thing the program told me is that it isn't ttf-lyx, because the eufm10 font in ttf-lyx has different-looking glyphs for those characters. < 1254178037 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, gtkmm has a pangomm library < 1254178128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's a "find a font by raster image" function, but it fails. Also browsing through sample texts didn't really help. <-- what app? < 1254178134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fontmatrix. < 1254178289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if the gucharmap shows the symbol you can right click it and see what font it is really from < 1254178304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. < 1254178310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *so* didn't know that. < 1254178313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just found out by mistake < 1254178320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is from FreeSerif indeed. < 1254178350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've just trusted the "pdffonts" output from the oowriter-generated PDF. < 1254178365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but at the correct code point? < 1254178379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and all my blackboard bold are from dejavu sans or dejavu serif < 1254178383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one varies < 1254178389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: pango_font_get_coverage could be used on each font in succession < 1254178392 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@86.156.193.77 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254178401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wellll, how should I know? All I know is that when I right-click one of the fraktur/bold fraktur fonts in gucharmap, it says "FreeSerif" down there. < 1254178436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it took me two minutes to look up. It would probably take me 5 minutes to hack together a program to check a font for a character < 1254178466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I'm not sure how useful that is now, when it turns out gucharmap can tell where the one it displays comes from. < 1254178472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, if you *want* to make one. < 1254178528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for the reference, my FreeSerif font is from the ttf-freefont package, version 20090104-4. < 1254178579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ver 20080323-3 here < 1254178595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there. < 1254178606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phew, this was far too difficult. < 1254178607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I prefer mostly stable jaunty < 1254178670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'll miss out on the fraktur fun. Though I don't think it's that widely used in IRC. < 1254178693 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1254178703 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1254178720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strange fonts: ttf-junicode < 1254178747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Description: a Unicode font for medievalists (Latin, IPA and Runic)" < 1254178755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know "medievalists" was even a word < 1254178759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(valid word*) < 1254178801 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254178857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what was the package for "get evince to integrate into firefox"? < 1254179008 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]" < 1254179058 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254179118 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254179447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, your system is called "eris"? < 1254179509 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-076-176.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254180085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night -> < 1254180290 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254180720 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254180918 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254181834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; i've gone Greek for the names here nowadays; I have eris, iris, momus, hermes, thalia, antheia, styx, charon, dionysus, tartarus, and maybe something I've forgotten already. They all have some sort of point, though they are a bit far-fetched. < 1254181837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asleep also, anyway. < 1254181852 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can you please send a fraktur character to the channel? < 1254182129 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Like "MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL A"? Unfortunately, that caracter doesn't seem to want to copy'n'paste here... < 1254182137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, what was the package for "get evince to integrate into firefox"? < 1254182147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mozplugger; don't bother, it's very buggy < 1254182150 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: aye < 1254182153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also absorbs all keystrokes < 1254182157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't go back or close tab without using the mouse < 1254182164 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do all plugins :( < 1254182238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, most of them let you ctrl-w at least < 1254182242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I spoilt by Safari's plugins, which let you? < 1254182242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Cmd-w < 1254182259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all pdf plugins are so misguided, because they're not identical to Safari's. < 1254182463 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a KPart plugin < 1254184970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be sweet if xjump had online multiplayer. < 1254184975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could knock each other waway < 1254184976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*away < 1254185895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254185898 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254186339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jwz.livejournal.com/1096401.html?thread=20365265#t20365265 jwz: OOH, DRAMA < 1254187078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to take this opportunity to note that US politics is freaking insane. Like, really, "belongs in an asylum". < 1254187404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee I wasn't aware < 1254187580 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254187589 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254188028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Please do not thank me - I find it scary)" --the internets < 1254188894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:19:55 cool link: http://shinh.skr.jp/obf/ < 1254188902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, shinh has a real website < 1254189114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:28:44 also, when ehird gets online, I'll have to tell him that control-shift-alt-5 does regex replace in Emacs < 1254189129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stereotype, it hurts < 1254189249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:04:32 AnMaster: holding down /three/ modifier keys, then pressing a digit? < 1254189250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:04:38 ais523, yes and? < 1254189250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you < 1254189350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:22:47 which is why a source based distro is so much better, relinking is trivial, while on ubuntu it would be a more complex process. < 1254189362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source based distros are good because if the distro is horribly broken you can perform major surgery on it easier? < 1254189365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, you convinced me < 1254189370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sign me up for the 5 hour compile times < 1254189439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:12:00 ais523, on support.microsoft.com you should ask about notepad vs. wordpad I guess < 1254189439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:12:30 AnMaster: just no, they're both awful < 1254189441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with notepad < 1254189474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:14:09 (Okay, so it's not completely dead: the USB hub still works. It's just that a two-port USB hub the shape of a 24" TFT is still not especially useful.) < 1254189474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool novelty item. < 1254189500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:17:00 fizzie, you get the basic idea anyway, refine it as required < 1254189510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also failing at the same time was (a) hookers, (b) blackjack. These items are required." < 1254189555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so i finish logreading. < 1254189941 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254190061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi augur < 1254190067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i won't have sex with you < 1254190069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye augur < 1254190077 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ehird < 1254190079 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww darn < 1254190080 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by ehird < 1254190088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't author that < 1254190096 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o ok < 1254190105 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are having sex with me < 1254190105 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1254190107 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1254190114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fine < 1254190117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you're so persuasive < 1254190278 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254190291 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my latest torture < 1254190303 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this horrible adventure that is the Italian Dialectology DB < 1254190304 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1254190319 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the server will not report any fucking errors regardless of error reporting levels. < 1254190325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and regardless of how egregious the errors truly are < 1254190439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Italian Dialectology DB Fuck Shit Damn Whore. < 1254193788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254194191 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254195596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254196400 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254197331 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I didn't author that < 1254197333 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254197407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"by ehird" < 1254197412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the ... < 1254197416 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P < 1254197427 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read over the typo flawlessly :P < 1254197434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flawless... failure? < 1254197442 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes 8-D < 1254197454 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is that how we say "hello" now? < 1254197461 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1254197461 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I won't have sex with you. < 1254197464 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye ehird. < 1254197467 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi augur. < 1254197469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor < 1254197471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? < 1254197478 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey gregor < 1254197479 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1254197482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry to see you leaving so soon, Gregor. was it something I said? < 1254197484 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ruined the flow of my other "hi" :P < 1254197493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLAWLESS TRAINWRECK < 1254197498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries again. < 1254197500 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi augur. < 1254197502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1254197506 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under some set of conditions it's possible I'd have sex with you, but you don't get to know what those are. < 1254197506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1254197510 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye augur. < 1254197511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuddlepup < 1254197519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1254197522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww how cute < 1254197524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fuddlepup" < 1254197530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't want a fuddlepup?! < 1254197576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone made of ANTIMATTER, that's who. < 1254197596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuddlepuup ^_^ < 1254197599 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He would want an antifuddlepup < 1254197600 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antimatter is an AWESOME power < 1254197610 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I'd say it's better than Void < 1254197614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antimatter doesn't matter bitch ass fuck attundal what < 1254197614 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi pikhq. < 1254197615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I won't have sex with you. < 1254197615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye pikhq. < 1254197623 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi coppro. < 1254197625 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I won't have sex with you.Bye coppro. < 1254197627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Interesega. < 1254197627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Gregor. < 1254197628 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, messed that one up :P < 1254197629 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like one day to see a super hero with the power to control the strong interaction < 1254197632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's legal to do that to walruses. < 1254197634 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now there's a powerful power < 1254197634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ, eww. < 1254197637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck is wrong with you? < 1254197639 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you'd have sex with ehird but not me? :( < 1254197639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm outta here. < 1254197647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you're way too old. < 1254197647 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I'm interested, but still) < 1254197655 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, @ehird was "No I won't have sex with you" :P < 1254197662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :pedobear: < 1254197667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Shit. < 1254197678 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254197682 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254197685 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a purry kitty. < 1254197686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will make your atoms cease to be. *bam*" < 1254197686 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1254197691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll uh, change the laws of your bitching physics? < 1254197695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1254197696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure < 1254197697 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan. < 1254197699 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I won't have sex with you. < 1254197699 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye oerjan. < 1254197700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT SURE < 1254197707 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, he could DISASSEMBLE the fuck out of you < 1254197713 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make you nuclear explode! < 1254197728 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Send parton jets in your fucking face < 1254197848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can he rip apart my fucking quarks < 1254197851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my < 1254197851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING < 1254197851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quarks < 1254197857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK. YOU. < 1254197862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quarks used for fucking. < 1254197872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, those are my fucking fucking quarks < 1254197906 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your fucking fucking fucking quarks are for fucking the abstract idea of fucking? < 1254197921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254197928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fucking fucking fucking fucking quarks are just shut the fuck up < 1254197952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric, the sex channel < 1254197971 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So speaking of deer, ... < 1254198020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :find the fun in sex and have a happy hour of brainfucking in the skies where the http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D dwell < 1254198023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric, find the fun in sex and have a happy hour of brainfucking in the skies where the http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D dwell < 1254198030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254198137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION distinctly thought #esoteric was usually prepended to the topic somehow anyway. he guesses it depends on client though. < 1254198191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a chanserv thingy < 1254198192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just meant "what" at my topi < 1254198192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1254198195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\nc/c/ < 1254198215 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric, find the fun in deer/sex and have a happy hour of brainfucking in the skies where the http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D dwell < 1254198269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric, find the fun in deer/sex and have a happy hour of brainfucking in the skies where the http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D dwell also sex buggery what's his name? i wonder what his name is because he always does that thing, that thing, you know < 1254202909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254203280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why we still have window titles < 1254203286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone actually look at the title inside the window? < 1254203297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the little window icon? should just put the menu there. < 1254203416 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254205152 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254205506 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254205700 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. My biggest complaint about this computer is something that the reviewers liked < 1254205708 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254205727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the screen's viewing angles < 1254205737 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too good? < 1254205747 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a sort of bright bar when you're viewing it straight-on, and you can't get it to be uniform < 1254205756 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's called shitty TN screens for you < 1254205762 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have got a T60 IPS screen, silly rabbit. < 1254205762 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TN? < 1254205771 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twisted neumatic. < 1254205784 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheap, ubiquitous, shitty colours, shitty viewing angles. < 1254205806 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPS: In-Plane Switching. Expensive, rare, excellent colours, excellent viewing angles, (caveat: not-so-good response times). < 1254205821 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Twisted nematic < 1254205829 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonono, the viewing angles are amazing < 1254205839 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially from the side < 1254205846 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you consider shit at every angle acceptable. < 1254205848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for when you're straight-on < 1254205867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, no loss of quality at 80 degrees horizontally either way < 1254205878 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPS looks near identical at all angles; you can go almost sideways and it looks exactly the same as straight-on. < 1254205886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's how this looks sideways < 1254205890 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TN might seem similar at first glance but it's simply not. < 1254205893 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nearly as much up/down < 1254205989 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no complaints except for this nasty bar < 1254206025 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot see any noticeable change at any sideways angle < 1254206032 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait til you look at the same image on two screens and notice one looks crazy < 1254206043 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: I can recognize LCD distortion, thank you < 1254206055 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TN distortion != LCD distortion < 1254206059 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TN simply fails at colour reproduction < 1254206066 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to do with the colour distortion on angles < 1254206081 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the subject here was angles < 1254206094 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant re "I have no complaints" < 1254206221 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there's one other. It's hard to look at the screen in insufficient light, far more so than my previous one < 1254206388 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION glances at kubuntu 9.10 alpha6 page for a few seconds. yep, kde still sucks < 1254206397 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254206450 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should be happy - the thing causing me to glance is that ubuntu's stock gnome is so out of my way and usable that it seems boring... because i never think about it < 1254208301 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90f12@gateway/web/freenode/x-pflhxreldhwemzcu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254210500 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/content/news/pepsi_to_cease_advertising < 1254210501 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn < 1254210506 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254210515 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this was real i'd buy like 50 billion bottles of pepsi right now :P < 1254210671 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 million bottles of pepsi on the wall, 50 million bottles of pepsi? < 1254210680 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would take some time to finish those < 1254210743 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i drink a lot of pepsi. < 1254210974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How very American of you. < 1254211047 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an irritatingly addictive taste. < 1254211050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1254211057 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1254211082 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254211100 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spawn more ehirds < 1254211135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_ is a ghost xchat i believe. < 1254211137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it in the ASS. < 1254211199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254211200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254212119 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254214528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I read over the typo flawlessly :P <-- "reado"? < 1254214579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good term maybe? < 1254214657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah. < 1254214664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254215314 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254215725 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254216085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1254216090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254216607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems that Apple have been installing Apache on people's PCs without their permission < 1254216623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of some other software they were pushing out < 1254216660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh? < 1254216668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sort-of < 1254216674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an opt-out update with a confusing description < 1254216699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth < 1254216706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1254216714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm, actually, I'm more interested in whether it had source code or not < 1254216717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what licence is Apache under? < 1254216728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the apache license iirc < 1254216734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how copyleft is it? < 1254216738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't remember < 1254216755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it should be easy enough to look up < 1254216819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-copyleft, it seems < 1254216828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty like the BSD licence, just massively more complicated < 1254216866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OW! Windows 7's default desktop background is /hideous/ < 1254216886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the one in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Windows_7.png ? < 1254216907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254216924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, pretty much, the one there has a different gamma than the one here < 1254216927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is eye-burningly bright < 1254216949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just so powerful, you see. < 1254216976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively they're hoping it'll leave a permanent after-image on your retina. That's called "marketing". < 1254217001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1254217003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now its busy advertising "libraries" to me < 1254217014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which AFAICT are folders full of symlinks with marketingspeak layered over them < 1254217051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not quite < 1254217067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because deleting a file from a library also deletes the original < 1254217076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but deleting a directory inside a library doesn't delete the files inside it < 1254217091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254217111 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254217112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, they closed his connection before he could bad-mouth W7 any more. < 1254217118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, pressed the wrong button < 1254217119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not. < 1254217136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to close the tab, I closed the window by mistake < 1254217148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the "actually close the window, don't just minimise it" shortcut < 1254217182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems the operation of adding a file to a library therefore isn't easily reversible < 1254217202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... unless it always contains all files in a folder, which would make sense, so why didn't the help file /say/ that? < 1254217261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At your taskbar, click on to the Windows Orb on the taskbar --" that somehow sounds really silly. < 1254217273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Windows Orb, a mysterious relic from the First Age. < 1254217301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some scary messages in the help file; it seems that the manufacturer of a USB drive has to do something special to get it to work with libraries in Windows 7 < 1254217312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the help file suggests we nag the manufacturer if it doesn't < 1254217328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if such changes would make the USB drive less compatible with other OSes < 1254217352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1254217354 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1254217357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use the Optimize this library for dropdown to select the correct type of optimization (General Items, Documents, Music, Pictures, Video, or Internet)". What does that do? < 1254217395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate to thin < 1254217397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think < 1254217555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that Windows 7 taskbar thing is awful, it's basically like OS X's Dock except without the features that make the Dock actually useful < 1254217623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boots into CentOS instead, now it's working < 1254217628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see how bad it is... < 1254217764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this is weird, it's Gnome with a theme that makes it look vaguely like KDE < 1254218158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, screenshot! < 1254218173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: different computer < 1254218175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm trying < 1254218179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me get IRC working over there first < 1254218191 0 :ais523_!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-itzathsboeakmiae JOIN :#esoteric < 1254218202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you finally got the login to that computer and made X start? < 1254218214 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X wasn't the issue < 1254218217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1254218221 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X was running fine, it's the video card that was messed up < 1254218226 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't see either X or console < 1254218229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, broken hardware? < 1254218237 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incompatible hardware < 1254218244 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone replaced the DVI cable with a VGA cable, and it works now < 1254218249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254218719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the world ends: ais523 has actually been thinking about Feather | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1254218728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh! < 1254218763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know how to do it < 1254218785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with a minimal interpreter that's enough to 'be Feather' in that it can be retroactively self-modified < 1254218788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's all you need < 1254218902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that minimal one still sounds tricky < 1254218942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1254218943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it wouldn't need to be written in Feather < 1254218943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course < 1254218945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't an "of course" with Feather < 1254219014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was "of course the outermost _interpreter_ can't be in Feather itself" < 1254219014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for compiler that works, if you start with hand compiling the first one) < 1254219014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a while I thought it had to be a Feather/something else polyglot < 1254219032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turns out that you can see the source code of an interp even if it isn't written in Feather < 1254219035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just get a self-reference < 1254219810 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, all that you need is an interp for a simple functional language < 1254219819 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need any more functionality than Unlambda has < 1254219831 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with two changes: first, you need to be able to retroactively replace the interp < 1254219844 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and second, it should be easy to write a polyglot in that lang and Feather < 1254219962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: I need to learn Scheme < 1254219980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, any functional language (i.e. lang with first-class functions) that has call/cc < 1254219998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Unlambda already, but I know enough Unlambda to know that that will be a bad idea < 1254220113 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: http://imgur.com/mTaiW.png < 1254220127 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the taskbar that makes me think it's acting like KDE < 1254220131 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very KDEish taksbar < 1254220134 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*taskbar < 1254220844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the people here seem to know what software should be on a computer science computer < 1254220852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has emacs, XEmacs, /and/ gvim < 1254220853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the menu < 1254220859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and presumably the command-line versions too) < 1254220891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyingly, although Evince is installed, Adobe Reader's default for PDFs < 1254225314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The store I bought the broken monitor from replied, told me to contact the manufacturer directly. The manufacturer replied, said they've outsourced service calls to some company called "Infocare", gave me a phone number. Now I've been sitting in their telephone queue system for the last twenty minutes or so, listening to annoying muzak and a "all aur lines are still busy" announcement which repeats every 30 seconds. < 1254225585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear some companies have built cussword recognition to their queue systems, to give preferential treatment to irate customers; maybe I should've tried that. (Too late now, they answered already; IRC complaining does the trick every time.) < 1254225646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have they sorted out your problem? < 1254225714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they'll send someone from yet another company (a courier service sort of one) to pick up the broken monitor. They didn't really tell me what they're going to do with it, though. < 1254225728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully give you a replacement, or fix that one < 1254225824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, both sound just fine. Though I'm not looking forward to a replacement; it's bound to have some broken pixels, and that'll mean a horrible hassle, because the store I bought it from has a special "zero dead pixels" guarantee thing, which supposedly is for as long a time as the manufacturer's warranty, so I'd feel stupid to not take advantage of that. < 1254225897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would the replacement have broken pixels, if they had a no-broken-pixels guarantee/ < 1254225922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not LG (the manufacturer) that has the guarantee, it's the retail store chain. < 1254225944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254226000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's a very KDEish taksbar <-- indeed < 1254226079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1254235764 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254235764 0 :clog!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1254235769 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254236495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254237021 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1254237231 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254237358 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jerry < 1254237481 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254237489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:30:07 hmm... it seems that Apple have been installing Apache on people's PCs without their permission < 1254237492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it comes on all Macs < 1254237494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly an oversight < 1254237495 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254237503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you ehird_ < 1254237524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:34:26 OW! Windows 7's default desktop background is /hideous/ < 1254237532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gamma must be _really_ bad... < 1254237539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:36:43 ok, now its busy advertising "libraries" to me < 1254237539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:36:54 which AFAICT are folders full of symlinks with marketingspeak layered over them < 1254237539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254237545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a saved search, sort of < 1254237552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certain file types from certain directories, curated < 1254237596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:45:55 wow, that Windows 7 taskbar thing is awful, it's basically like OS X's Dock except without the features that make the Dock actually useful < 1254237603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you'd actually use OS X and win7 < 1254237608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd realise how utterly wrong you are < 1254237615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X's is worthless and slow < 1254237619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win 7's is well-organised and fast < 1254237785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:33 anyway: http://imgur.com/mTaiW.png < 1254237795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people misguidedly hate the genius that is the two-panel system :( < 1254237943 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254237996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1254238006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i talked a lot to you just before you return, heh < 1254238006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254238013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.09.29) < 1254238017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop went on standby < 1254238017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at bottom) < 1254238023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, clog came back? < 1254238023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do that. < 1254238027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it went? < 1254238028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1254238030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I miss < 1254238031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an office now < 1254238035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't wait to logread < 1254238037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fancy < 1254238039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm leaving my laptop in it when I go to meetings < 1254238047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: fizzie recaptured it after it came back < 1254238057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat oerjan < 1254238061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, reca* something < 1254238072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recapitulated? < 1254238082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did anyone say anything when clog went < 1254238090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, three email accounts now < 1254238106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, enough that I'll need to pastebin it < 1254238108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a moment < 1254238119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, summary of the few-line logreading if your browser is now nc(1) or something: "you're wrong! no, wait, whoever that is is wrong. correction, you're wrong!" < 1254238120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: obviously what i said was incomprehensible, since it answered your question :D < 1254238129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you asked it < 1254238147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1254238158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1584352 < 1254238174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie pasted before clog came back, duh < 1254238222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, not only was it incomprehensible, it was also useless < 1254238261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nailing two birds with one stone since 1970 < 1254238263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1254238500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I can probably get 24Mb internet! < 1254238519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, this is caused by moving. you may psychoanalyze the cause/effect relationship there. < 1254238556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well lessee, you are still living with your parents right? < 1254238595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant how I put the internet as the main thing and the moving as a side-note < 1254238595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, err, being 14, yes < 1254238600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically false; parent < 1254238606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it less likely that the move is the effect < 1254238608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1254238621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless your parent is as big a geek as you are < 1254238632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite the opposite < 1254238688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i should probably qualify this since it varies so much by country: 24Mb would be an upgrade for you, right? < 1254238737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently on 8Mb. you, being a fucking ... uh ... Noir? i cannot think of an analog to Swede... probably have 100Mb. < 1254238759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian, i know of no specific noun for it < 1254238797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I need something vaguely accusatory < 1254238802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i have never checked my speed. hm, how do i do that... < 1254238858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask your isp. < 1254238873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed tests are far too realistic and unboring because of servers slower than you, beyond a certain speed :P < 1254238877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what isp oerjan? < 1254238878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the landlady got the broadband installed, despite being fairly (ok, totally) clueless in such matters < 1254238891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't know? < 1254238894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1254238894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can check from your IP < 1254238901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i know the name, NextGenTel < 1254238904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no < 1254238905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i can't :D < 1254238909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :D < 1254238920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how much do you pay per month and does it include phone? < 1254238948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pay nothing, it's included in the rent. although she increased the rent about 300 kr at the time < 1254238992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use http://speedtest.net/ (click the server it highlights in yellow) and I'll try and correlate that with your ISP's website and the 300 kr figure < 1254238998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :science! < 1254239066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also pause any downloads before obvs < 1254239073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.50 Mb/s download < 1254239081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests the connection here at Birmingham University < 1254239094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.42 MB/s download, 5.03 MB/s upload, 17ms ping < 1254239097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a wireless connection, though < 1254239100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably 100Mb/s raw connection < 1254239108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even 1,000Mb/s, if they're fancy < 1254239135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, 10MiB? < 1254239138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or MB? < 1254239142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Mb? < 1254239156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1254239161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.51 upload, 42 ms ping < 1254239161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already closed the website < 1254239170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: download is important < 1254239174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only erlevant one < 1254239175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*relevant < 1254239178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said that already < 1254239184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254239194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it say Mb with a lowercase b? < 1254239206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254239211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mb/s < 1254239215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 576KiB < 1254239231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you prolly have a 6Mb connection or so < 1254239247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very good I'm afraid :P < 1254239271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have sideways 8 Mb, and I LIKE it! < 1254239273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254239278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that'd be 0Mb < 1254239281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but infinite latency < 1254239487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi < 1254239491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1254239502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah < 1254239508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about what you said about dmm) < 1254239596 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254239630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there's a decent gnome usenet client, like a frontend to SABnzbd or something < 1254239668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would also be cool if it had an interface to one of the big search sites but, you know, asking for too much < 1254239692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lottanzb.org/ looks nice but depends on keeping the machine on instead of having a server download it < 1254240253 0 :Jerry!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Cerise < 1254240265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm not Star Trek nerd enough to spot the reference in Darth & Droids today < 1254240279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that they are talking about in the annotation) < 1254240280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"She's dead, Jim" < 1254240285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right duh < 1254240413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't consider himself a star trek nerd either, but he knows _that_ :D < 1254240553 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254240570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did you see my CentOS screenshot earlier < 1254240574 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know that < 1254240584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, read the logs :P < 1254240593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.09.29 press end < 1254240595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i replied to it < 1254240598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although rather boringly < 1254240602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, I just have a bad memory < 1254240604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rereads < 1254240637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you replied to my Win7 discussion < 1254240639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not to the CentOS < 1254240643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're the two OSes on my office computer) < 1254240645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1254240659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:23:05 02:28:33 anyway: http://imgur.com/mTaiW.png < 1254240659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:23:15 why do people misguidedly hate the genius that is the two-panel system :( < 1254240672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254240679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got the reference wrong < 1254240691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those icons scale horribly < 1254240708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I smiled a little at the old-school Clearlooks; I love that look) < 1254240712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ones? < 1254240718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, and a Bluecurve terminal icon < 1254240724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: window decoration and gtk theme < 1254240734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearlooks looks different nowadays but has a classic style available < 1254240808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can't gnome do a two-line taskbar? everything else is insanity like that < 1254240828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that taskbar is one-line; I'm not sure whether it can do two-line or not, although that one isn't < 1254240836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I assume you're not allowed to muck with this computer, or you just have a weird adoration of bad operating systems :P < 1254240902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not allowed to muck with it, yes < 1254240917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, can't without doing things like opening it up and resetting the CMOS battery < 1254240921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other similarly dubious things < 1254240924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to be pretty locked down < 1254240927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much of a computer, then < 1254240933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more a kiosk < 1254240936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mostly using my laptop as a result < 1254240947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :understandable < 1254241139 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather... < 1254241158 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recognize it from somewhere, I guess it's been discussed here before < 1254241177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's magnum opus. < 1254241184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if it's ever made. < 1254241234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: several languages, like Brainfuck, INTERCAL, and Malbolge, are much-reputed for driving people mad < 1254241238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather is /actually/ driving me mad < 1254241243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I have trouble thinking about it < 1254241248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hurts my brain < 1254241256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it's actually a valid concept, so to speak < 1254241285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only think of one incomplete projection of it into concept-space at once, sort of like a Klein bottle in 3d space < 1254241285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since they're inconsistent, it just confuses you < 1254241288 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't expect to gain anything from this conversation, will I? < 1254241295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., it's impossible to express Feather < 1254241302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, updated kernel on ubuntu but the same /lib/modules/foo directory for old and new? < 1254241305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty odd < 1254241320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: It's a programming language that you can modify (the interpreter) retroactively - so that it was *always* true, infinitely far back in time. < 1254241320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the update didn't break binary compatibility < 1254241330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because Linux isn't afraid to break binary kernel compatibility doesn't mean that every update necessarily does < 1254241335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the interpreter used to interpret your modification, the one used to interpret that, etc. < 1254241341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explains why the module was loaded without being having to rebuild it against new kernel though < 1254241360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do they make sure it doesn't... I mean it would need some pretty careful checking < 1254241369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1254241384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the API is defined, if the API didn't change (only the internals), you aren't breaking binary compat < 1254241426 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a side note, what's an approximation of the size of the channel logs? < 1254241430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err API != ABI < 1254241437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can break ABI without breaking API < 1254241438 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, another note* < 1254241439 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1254241441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I meant ABI < 1254241448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: something like 50MB < 1254241448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an ABI is a sort of ABI < 1254241450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MiB that is < 1254241452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, the A isn't correct either < 1254241455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more a KMBI < 1254241456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but an ABI is a sort of ABI < 1254241460 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that big then < 1254241464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ABI is a sort of API < 1254241477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 50MB is an awful lot of text, we're quite popular < 1254241489 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess it's a lot of text < 1254241491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong; it's been a while since I've had the logs downloaded < 1254241493 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not a lot to download < 1254241496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is the ABI versioned or something? Or how do you check if it changed without reading every patch manually and checking carefully if those things are exposed to modules < 1254241498 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in < 1254241510 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not talking about flooding the server with requests < 1254241518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each file is only about 100KiB. < 1254241520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, we are. < 1254241523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm pretty sure that the release managers did read every patch < 1254241527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 50 MB for how long? < 1254241538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they need to know what they changed < 1254241540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dec 2002 - late 2008 iirc. < 1254241549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: One of these days I'll get around to writing my script that downloads all logs since the last run (or the full set if you've never run it) and then munges them all to use UTC time. < 1254241555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, for all we know it's just 2 patches to fix security problems, or something similarly important but simple < 1254241559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only 50 MB? Huh < 1254241567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's *text*. < 1254241569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##linux is like 50 MB per month < 1254241572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the irc log < 1254241575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: people nowadays underestimate how compact plain-text is < 1254241578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I grew up with floppy disks < 1254241581 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1254241587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we assume an average english word length of 5 letters, < 1254241590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for which 50 MB is about 2 boxes of disks < 1254241598 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will you reupload the transformed logs? :) < 1254241602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric has seen 10,485,760 words in its time < 1254241607 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254241611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you used to be able to fit lots of data on a disk < 1254241611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if ##linux is around 50 MB per month... (well, 48.2 for last month according to du) < 1254241618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give or take the timestamps and names < 1254241619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like < 1254241622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after compression it ends up at 4.6 MB < 1254241622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's close enough < 1254241630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is lzma --best) < 1254241644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's *ten million* words. < 1254241652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how many words fit on an average book page? < 1254241654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess < 1254241670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how large book is your average one < 1254241679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: about 200 < 1254241680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pocket? half A4? < 1254241682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :250 was standard IIRC < 1254241683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regular novel size. < 1254241690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have to guess, I actually counted for a school project once < 1254241693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: with 5-letter words, roughly? < 1254241694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ofc it depends on the book < 1254241699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as in hardcover discworld book size? < 1254241703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure? < 1254241710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure about what < 1254241726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "sure.?" < 1254241733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in I don't know, I don't own any < 1254241737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254241752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardcover discworld is larger than the standard novel, I'd guess about 300 for it < 1254241756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I dunno, I just recall 250 being cited as average in novel pages back in the typewriter days < 1254241761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about English hard cover edition of last Harry Potter book < 1254241762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the #esoteric book (assuming 50MiB logs) would have something like 52,429 to 41,943 pages. < 1254241762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't own any either, but I've read them in the library < 1254241765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(200 and 250) < 1254241769 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And still being semi-standard for estimates < 1254241771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*41,943 to 52,429 < 1254241775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absorb that figure for a second. < 1254241779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say 50,000 < 1254241780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have talked a *fucking* lot. < 1254241789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 41 and 52? < 1254241791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say 45 < 1254241796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a good compromise < 1254241803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, either way, it's about 100 large books, or maybe one bookshelf in a library < 1254241811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1254241841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, we're prolific. < 1254241864 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254241880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, either way, it's about 100 large books, or maybe one bookshelf in a library <-- Seen that wikipedia book? < 1254241889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not the whole thing < 1254241891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(might have been photoshoped, don't know) < 1254241891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a subset of Featured Articless. < 1254241893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Articles < 1254241898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, we'd be thicker. < 1254241901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much, much thicker. < 1254241921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it'd be short enough to fit in any room in a typical house. < 1254241928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Encyclopedia Britannica takes up about two shelves, by comparison < 1254241942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how long shelf? < 1254241949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: typical library shelf < 1254241955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I'm going on a copy of it I saw in a library < 1254241962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I'm ignoring the fact that 90% of our ramblings are worthless shit and a selection of Wikipedia FAs and Britannica are both valuable resources. < 1254241965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as if I own it myself < 1254241977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, that would be some 20 meter long shelf if the local library is representative? < 1254241980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 74.9% of our lines are me. :P < 1254241987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, no < 1254241999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's somewhere between 1 and 2 metres at the one I think of < 1254242006 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just think about the meta-nature of reading in the log-book about estimating the size of the same < 1254242008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 20 metre long shelf would be rather painful to attach to a wall < 1254242021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: we'd better print it quick < 1254242038 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254242072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect both ehird and AnMaster are too young to remember the days of floppy disks, where 1MB was a lot of storage < 1254242082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there are some shorter ones too, around 5-10 meters I think. those that are free standing in rows, rather than attached to any wall. Oh and down in the magazine they are around 7 meters I think... < 1254242088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ~1.3 MB iirc < 1254242096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so happy you can buy a TB for $80 nowadays < 1254242097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it was ages ago I used any < 1254242099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1.44MB < 1254242101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a floppy disk holds 1.44 MB under DOS or Windows < 1254242106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, after formatting and FS I meant < 1254242107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254242112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, duh < 1254242113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like 1.7 with certain Linux formats and FSes < 1254242118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what my figure was < 1254242120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a screenshot, just because he's itching to play with Dropbox < 1254242124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they found a more efficient way to write the data to disk < 1254242140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can get even more by forcing the drives to act in a way that the spec says they shouldn't < 1254242143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some drives break when you do that < 1254242145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/Screenshot.png < 1254242152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg screenshot < 1254242153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, back then I was using Mac OS. So that was 1.44 - HFS metadata and such ~= 1.34 iirc < 1254242161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, uh, very screenshotty. < 1254242199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the combined band aid + gnome foot icon? < 1254242211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's your Ubuntu system? < 1254242218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's with the wooden-table wallpaper? < 1254242218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, that's the X-Chat X with the GNOME logo on top of it. < 1254242227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., X-Chat GNOME. < 1254242229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*XChat-GNOME < 1254242234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd enhance the effect by hiding the panels < 1254242242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's my iMac with Ubuntu 9.10 on it < 1254242242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I just like it < 1254242259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm any way to only get the "hide panel" button on one side of the panel? < 1254242267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not that I know of < 1254242268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION renames it to http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/dropbox-fun.png < 1254242271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid name clashses < 1254242272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clashes < 1254242272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, KDE3 can do it < 1254242274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a KDE sort of question < 1254242288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I meant I want that in gnome < 1254242294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's with the Foonetic channels there, btw? < 1254242298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was hoping for an actual picture of a bandaged gnome foot < 1254242304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/nautilus-dropbox.png ;; this is what my Dropbox looks like in Nautilus < 1254242330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's, uh, pretty normal apart from that synchronized tick < 1254242332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because with synergy I easily end up misclicking the hide button that is on the side that is "attached" between the screens < 1254242338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was blue and two arrows chasing each other (not animated) a few seconds beforehand < 1254242347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that little box in the system tray is dropbox) < 1254242354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/nautilus-dropbox.png ;; this is what my Dropbox looks like in Nautilus <-- err same image as the first one? < 1254242360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no it's not < 1254242369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my guess is there isn't an easily exposed setting to do that sort of thing in Gnome < 1254242375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/dropbox-fun.png < 1254242376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/nautilus-dropbox.png < 1254242377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare < 1254242377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's one at all < 1254242381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one shows dropbox in nautilus < 1254242386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing my previous screenshot < 1254242390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnome isn't very big on settings that not that many people need < 1254242401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1254242401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why hide a panel, anyway? < 1254242408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why is the first one 404 now? < 1254242408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of them are used commonly, at least for me < 1254242416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :famously it refuses even to allow customisation of screensavers, but apparently that's to do with the individual maintainer rather than Gnome itself < 1254242419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ehird renames it to http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/dropbox-fun.png < 1254242420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he renamed it < 1254242420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : to avoid name clashses < 1254242420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *clashes < 1254242420 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He renamed it < 1254242421 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254242421 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said < 1254242421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why < 1254242423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a h < 1254242423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254242424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah* < 1254242429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screenshot.png isn't a very good name < 1254242437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, < 1254242439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1254242440 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know it's a screenshot, at least < 1254242440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1254242455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the green thing on the image for? < 1254242463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "This file is synchronized with Dropbox" < 1254242473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it wasn't, it'd be blue and have two arrows (non-animatedly) chasing each other < 1254242478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorta like the recycling icon) < 1254242487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the Dropbox daemon updates them, and it turns to a tick < 1254242491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you mention what dropbox was anywhere? < 1254242500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropbox is a file synchronization over multiple computers thing < 1254242504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1254242506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a proprietary file-synch thing < 1254242507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just like a regular directory, that it automatically syncs < 1254242512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only the daemon is proprietary < 1254242517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nautilus extension and system tray are open source < 1254242521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok < 1254242524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: besides, Ubuntu One is proprietary and does the exact same thing < 1254242527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I've helped someone install it on Ubuntu before < 1254242530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except all of it is proprietary, and it only works on Ubuntu < 1254242532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it abuses the trademark < 1254242534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it comes with Karmic < 1254242539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and due to not being OS, it wasn't in the repositories, which made it more complicated < 1254242540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is it better than rsync for example? < 1254242542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think Dropbox is positively benevolent in comparison < 1254242543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what computer are you syncing it with < 1254242553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OSS < 1254242556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because I can use it like a regular directory, and it just happens, in seconds, instantly < 1254242567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And I can right click, Dropbox -> Get Public Link if it's in Public/ < 1254242572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard awful stuff about paid software in the repos on Karmic < 1254242580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can view it on the web, and upload files on the web < 1254242584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also, it stores revision history < 1254242585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete < 1254242588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For something like 30 days < 1254242592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and also lets you undelete for that long) < 1254242596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every file < 1254242605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so where is this synced to? Some other computer on your network? < 1254242608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually syncing it to another computer, just playing with it < 1254242616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm "get public link" < 1254242625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess to some account on a server < 1254242629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, uh, the Dropbox corporate servers. But the actual files are on every computer, so there's no risk, and I can easily use PGP or an encrypted loopback filesystem or whatever. < 1254242634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much does it cost? < 1254242641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free, for 2GB. < 1254242644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pay, for more. < 1254242648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1254242654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all the rage with the Web 2.0 twitterblagosphere types. < 1254242672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries making a loopback filesystem on it < 1254242676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe using gmail as backend. Isn't it up at like 7 GB or something nowdays? < 1254242702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One, that's probably against the TOS; two, 7374M(i?)B. < 1254242724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can't share Gmail messages. < 1254242729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is still more than 2 GB yeah < 1254242736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254242742 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254242743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1254242765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ehird (n=ehird@91.105.67.185) has left #esoteric ("Ex-Chat") <-- quite a bad pun IMO < 1254242770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the default. < 1254242779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes. Doesn't make it any better < 1254242790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Dropbox is cool. I'm sort of itching to make My Own Far Superior Version that uses Amazon S3 as a backend and encrypts everything but, you know, I don't care what they see because I wouldn't store anything sensitive on it without encrypting it. < 1254242797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the proprietary daemon sort of fails to bother me entirely. < 1254242817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, loopback filesystems are cool. < 1254242840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Dropbox traverses symlinks, so you can use it as a sort of backup thingy. < 1254242841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm wondering how hard it would be to make something like it that didn't use any corporate server but simply synced between your own computers in real time. < 1254242841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arigh lag < 1254242841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh* < 1254242842 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B1358F5.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254242867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses .xfs as a file extension for an XFS filesystem, because that's fun. < 1254242877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with that extension? < 1254242879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems obvious to me < 1254242910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing; it's just fun to have things like foo.ext3 lying around. < 1254242920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because loopback filesystems feel so, well, exotic. And file extensions don't. < 1254242933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can almost imagine double clicking it and opening it like a folder in Nautilus 27.49. < 1254242944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nautilus should so do that < 1254242948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, Archive Mounter exists < 1254242956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, Ubuntu doesn't ship with XFS? < 1254242966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Because loopback filesystems feel so, well, exotic. And file extensions don't. <-- how does loop filesystems feel exotic? < 1254242973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because they're fun! < 1254242976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And uncommon. < 1254242988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... potential. < 1254243080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) fun - well, maybe. 2) uncommon - yes, because most of the time they are pretty useless, exceptions would be: mounting isos; testing/debugging new file systems/file system features; encrypted fs in a file < 1254243085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) potential - huh? < 1254243098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many... opportunities! < 1254243102 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1254243105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun filesystem nested testing VM cheesecake boom! < 1254243134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One downside: There ought to be a mount you can use as non-root. < 1254243234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tee hee, I now have "dropbox" with an HD icon on my desktop. Let's see if syncing works properly. < 1254243262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ext4 will be delaying gedit's writes, won't it. < 1254243264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's unmount that thing. < 1254243287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand it syncs. < 1254243300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~/Dropbox$ ln -s test.ext4 Public/2009-09/ < 1254243310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brought to you by the "this is so cool that it can't possibly work" department. < 1254243320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh darn, the link is broken. < 1254243323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stupid. < 1254243372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, now let's see if it stored two copies. (Probably not, since it appeared synchronized first thing, which is cool.) < 1254243380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/test.ext4 < 1254243383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Share and enjoy. < 1254243501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it probably did. < 1254243502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well! < 1254243504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That link is disappearing now. < 1254243672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, can someone tell me who thought Nautilus tabs were a good idea? < 1254243675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot think of a single usecase. < 1254243798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've used them < 1254243803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much the same way as Firefox tabs < 1254243807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1254243819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I was working in one directory structure < 1254243825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then wanted to open a second whilst still working on the first < 1254243837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Enigma levels and Enigma source, as it happens) < 1254243854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ever heard of windows? < 1254243871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, browser tabs are an acceptable kludge because our window management facilities suck so much, but for two folders? < 1254243871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: opening two windows would just be clutter < 1254243888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like alt-tab to remain relatively sane < 1254243892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it was for two related things < 1254243903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clutter? < 1254243905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was for two completely different things, they'd be in different windows, maybe even different desktops < 1254243908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two windows for two things you're working on. < 1254243909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I'm switching quickly back and forth < 1254243912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, that sounds like... you know... < 1254243914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The purpose of windows. < 1254243916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :] < 1254243920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that line/oblivion/ < 1254243985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Windows are a pain to switch using the mouse, you have to move it a long way from where you're actually working < 1254243991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a pain to switch using the keyboard if you have too many < 1254244004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas tabs are right next to the contents of the window themselves < 1254244008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever heard of Fitt's Law? the window switcher panel is very efficient < 1254244012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even like the concept of tabs above the address bar for that reason < 1254244023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you have to move the mouse /back/ again afterwards < 1254244032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Fitt's Law applies to the contents of the window too < 1254244047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter, you have to move a bad Fitt distance with tabs < 1254244054 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-134-73.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254244054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more than "right here", but not enough to throw the mouse < 1254244076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, two windows != tons < 1254244087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two windows > 1 < 1254244092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i postulate that by the time you have enough nautilus windows for it to be a pain, you've forgotten about some of them < 1254244096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I had 8 windows open at the time < 1254244108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, would you appreciate a program that is just one program, with tabs, for every program you have open? < 1254244115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT THAT'S CALLED A WINDOW SWITCHER :P < 1254244128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it would be useful /if/ I could choose which programs went there and which didn't < 1254244138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if they nested too < 1254244142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you have programs open you don't wnat? < 1254244146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, use ion or something < 1254244150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why do you have programs open you don't want /now/ < 1254244153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has window tabs, probably nested even < 1254244165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I generally try to not < 1254244191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just say, not every program in the whole world is both intelligent enough to manage 100% persistency even when closed, and opens up instantly < 1254244197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a shame, but it's the current situation < 1254244202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but Nautilus is. < 1254244215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would take a while to navigate to the folder in question < 1254244232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something like 8 or 9 levels deep in the directory structure < 1254244246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, we're talking two folders. I guarantee that beore Nautilus tabs you'd have had no issues whatsoever with it. < 1254244284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I found the silliest microsoft ad ever! < 1254244284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJp6NThk7XE < 1254244325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: before then I used command-prompt tabs, because it was a pain to do what I wanted via the API < 1254244346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GUI < 1254244351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also never use terminal tabs! I'm so crazy. < 1254244366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because context switching terminal/GUI is quite expensive. < 1254244376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before /then/ I used multiple folder windows on Windows, and that was a real pain because sometimes there'd be so many the titles were abbreviated to one letter < 1254244387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need a window GC. < 1254244397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that was mostly due to bugs in Windows < 1254244399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God knows I do sometimes. < 1254244425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a window GC would only be useful if it was easy to restore them to the state they were in when they were closed < 1254244429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a point you still haven't addressed < 1254244436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know programs ought to be able to do that < 1254244438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of them can't < 1254244441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could just move them to a "crap" workspace or something. < 1254244458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I never have problems. Maybe you just think I'm an extremist about closing apps. < 1254244461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly I have quite a lot open. < 1254244471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's because I have a big screen, so the window clickies are bigger. < 1254244482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas your tiny screen can comfortably switch, what, 5 windows? :P < 1254244505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how < 1254244520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the window switcher can manage about 7 or 8, but I rarely use it, mostly because it involves using the mouse < 1254244537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I'm not sure GNOME is for you. :P < 1254244540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even when I'm doing Enigma work or web browsing, something similar that needs the mouse a lot, I don't like moving it all the way to the bottom of the screen < 1254244554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and GNOME works just fine for me, I just use the features of it that you keep bashing as unnecessary < 1254244572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, now that I'm not sleep-deprived I'm going to play some more Enigma < 1254244585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do use the window switcher to easily see which windows I have open, it's how I noticed that I'd accidentally opened two Evolution windows, for instance) < 1254244596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I tend to be a GNOME extremist just because I really like the philosophy < 1254244625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose to try and shape more accurately what "GNOMEishness" is in the minds of others, because I hate it when people go "lol removing options = betar gnome" < 1254244661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Enigma VII has some really long times < 1254244668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1254244677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some really long levels < 1254244686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where's that one < 1254244694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for instance, #2 Diving < 1254244699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because I've been working on Enigma 1.1 for so long, I keep on thinking of enigma VIII and enigma IX < 1254244700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48:14 par, 5:46 record < 1254244702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :par is probably way off < 1254244704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have some even bigger levels < 1254244711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the shitty par calculation < 1254244715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does Ubuntu have 1.1 yet? < 1254244721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it not out? < 1254244721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't released < 1254244723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, is there a ppa? < 1254244728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any sort of repo with binaries? < 1254244732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to compile yourself, or there are some "milestone" builds < 1254244737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for mac and windows, though < 1254244771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, I hate DownDown < 1254244775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just makes me stress out < 1254244786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually not too hard < 1254244790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to find it massively ahrd < 1254244792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hard < 1254244794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is because I can't play it calmly < 1254244798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did it with loads of time to spare when I tried recently < 1254244805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: #21 Cold Meditation, world record 18:53 < 1254244807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus fucking christ. < 1254244844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enigma VI has more long times < 1254244849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#36 < 1254244857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#29 < 1254244861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap < 1254244864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#23 is 32:27 par < 1254244865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've found links to the snapshot binaries for Windows and Mac < 1254244867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6:08 record < 1254244867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want one or the other? < 1254244876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: neither, I'll compile the source < 1254244879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to using Ubuntu nowadays < 1254244885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1254244898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"apt-get build-depends enigma" will get you nearly all the dependencies you need < 1254244901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me, or is VI#23 just designed to have every-fucking-thing in the game? < 1254244932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one's that? < 1254244941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prepare Your Defense < 1254244954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, that one < 1254244956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, what mouse sensitivity do you use? I can't get a good value. Using a wireless optical mouse with two batteries (so quite a bit heavier than a wired mouse or a one-battery wireless mouse) on a felt pad.) < 1254244962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very highly rated, which means it's pretty complicated < 1254244974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the times are insane < 1254244989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I use normally 7, although I adjust it to 15 for levels which are predominantly ice, and 1 for parts of levels where you go through death-stone corridors or other similarly narrow fatal bits < 1254245021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 is way too sensitive, I'll fall into everything < 1254245023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 seems acceptable < 1254245041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, the optimal value depends on the adhesion of the underlying floor < 1254245051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, of the mouse? < 1254245059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254245064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, felt pad < 1254245069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the mouse-marble relationship is mouse sensitivity * adhesion < 1254245072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so quite resistant, although not terribly < 1254245072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I meant the floor of the level < 1254245082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1254245085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, maybe I should try a trackball < 1254245088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ideal for enigma < 1254245094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. ice you want to set it to 10 times your standard value, if you can < 1254245099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second place probably going to a TrackPoint nub < 1254245101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254245107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that gives the same effect as your standard value does on ordinary floors < 1254245109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more like 8 times < 1254245112 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254245118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I miss, and what did I last say? < 1254245120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:25] as that gives the same effect as your standard value does on ordinary floors < 1254245121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:25] well, more like 8 times < 1254245124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:24] second place probably going to a TrackPoint nub < 1254245132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rightyho < 1254245135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry on from there then :P < 1254245151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard adhesion's something like 1.2, IIRC < 1254245156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the "good" floors have higher values < 1254245167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, good as in non-evil < 1254245231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree about trackball/trackpoint btw? < 1254245262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played Enigma on a trackball < 1254245270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about as good with it as I am with a mouse < 1254245276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and considering I've practiced for months with a mouse, that's saying something < 1254245300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Enigma, even though I'm really, truly awful at it < 1254245301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it would also avoid the problem with the mouse reaching the edge of the table; recentering it is ofc possible but takes time, which can be valuable in Enigma) < 1254245322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, how do you jump over the fucking water in time in VI#35 Phaeton? < 1254245356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there we go < 1254245372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible, but note that that's rather a complex level with several possible ways to go about it < 1254245377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't remember which one is correct < 1254245383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have par on that level, which I'm quite proud of) < 1254245388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did it fine, but now I have no idea wtf the next bit is < 1254245422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do need to get ready before you set off the lightpassenger < 1254245429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that you can lasertransform things < 1254245435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can? < 1254245444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a laser, isn't there? < 1254245449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can even blocktransform things < 1254245451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually know what lastertransforming is... < 1254245453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lightpassenger is a sort of block... < 1254245464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: haha, that could explain a lot that you're missing about Enigma < 1254245478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not-very-spoily version: some items react weirdly to being hit by lasers < 1254245485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not exactly very discoverable... < 1254245486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give you a spoilier one if you like < 1254245493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just try all of them < 1254245497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like I have a life < 1254245497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "Advanced Tutorial" gives some hints < 1254245498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254245510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey an umbrella for my money. < 1254245512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1254245521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take two. < 1254245569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the LotM essays has a fictional book called "Item Transformation for Dummies" that the black marble carries around with him < 1254245584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sunglasses! Stylish. < 1254245611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I died. < 1254245622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VI#45 Wormhole Madness! < 1254245630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Par is 36:38 < 1254245630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :record is 7:40 < 1254245655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, a shitton < 1254245657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those records have since been beaten < 1254245668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :par 12:04 record 3:41 with up-to-date data < 1254245678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VI#44 Dancing on Light Beams record is 0:09, how the fuck < 1254245688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a shortcut < 1254245705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure how to do the level without it < 1254245718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the lightpassenger to the end, and use it to knock the impulse stones out of the way < 1254245728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I turn the laser off so I can get at the oxyds, and it bounces back down the corridor < 1254245736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, I'm not good enough to do the level using the shortcut... < 1254245742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ @ Hot Meitation < 1254245757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually done that one, I think < 1254245770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254245774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't actually a speed level < 1254245778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not unless you're going for the world record < 1254245787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my time is 1:04, 8 seconds over par < 1254245811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enigma should have keyboard shortcuts for "slow" and "fast" < 1254245820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, normal = 5, slow = 3, fast = 10 < 1254245833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold down shift/ctrl or whatever < 1254245853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1254245883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy enough to script that, but might be considered cheating that wya < 1254245883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way < 1254245906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try asking on the mailing list < 1254245919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd have to subscribe < 1254245924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fair enough < 1254245936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm subscribed, but then I'd have to actually pull together the effort to care < 1254245941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is being spent on other things atm < 1254245976 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254246019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1254246021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VI#55 < 1254246023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :par 77:32 < 1254246025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :record 10:21 < 1254246040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1254246044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that level quite well < 1254246047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also gets very high ratings < 1254246058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and high ratings is a bad sign for difficulty < 1254246063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people seem to like the massively long hard ones better < 1254246092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION solves VI#60 in world record time < 1254246096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*50 < 1254246099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not new world record, but still) < 1254246125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my levels has an author time of 22:45 < 1254246128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it even be solved in 0:02? < 1254246135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is technically world record, as I don't think anyone else has solved it yet) < 1254246166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jump into Meditation" < 1254246167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254246170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254246183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ridiculously easy < 1254246193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :author time of 0:03 < 1254246196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is equal to the world record < 1254246203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's rare that a world record can't improve on the author < 1254246215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is just trying to solve it to set some author time, rather than trying to get good at it, usually < 1254246224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, if you're quicker than 0:03 you just die < 1254246232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VI#83 is /hideous/ < 1254246234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way < 1254246244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, #62 < 1254246244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the times reflect the difficulty quite well < 1254246256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be so bad if it used sensible floors < 1254246260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, 5:44? < 1254246264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound hideous < 1254246267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but putting abyss and space and swamp and inverse in it is just unfair < 1254246275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9:25's the world record < 1254246275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1254246277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is crazy < 1254246283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1254246297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0:52 < 1254246299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Johannes < 1254246305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been renumbered for 1.1 < 1254246305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of "The Cube" < 1254246312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're looking at the easy mode < 1254246321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too. < 1254246322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9:25 Johannes in hard < 1254246329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1254246331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using Hard. < 1254246343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the easy mode of that level is OK < 1254246351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, look at VI#100 < 1254246353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that time is ridiculous < 1254246354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the hard mode that's a bitch, and is one of the things that makes me want to leave it for the last level I ever do < 1254246366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and VI#100 is infamous < 1254246367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 and 99 too < 1254246379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was obviously destined for a #100 slot < 1254246381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that sort of level < 1254246389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never got past the third room on it < 1254246393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second is really tedious < 1254246397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is /not/ a good combination < 1254246423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#98 is rather difficult, it's one of the hardest one-screeners there, apparently < 1254246426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not counting #62) < 1254246439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and #99 is really a pain < 1254246445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the white marbles falling in the water all the time < 1254246448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it not being obvious what to do < 1254246463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out #100's first room... < 1254246476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the blocks is movable, and there's a hidden trigger < 1254246483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found that < 1254246485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this bodes badly for the rest of the level, btw) < 1254246498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It moved! < 1254246503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now what." < 1254246515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessee. < 1254246557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bothering with it can be a bad idea, because room 2 is a) moderately difficult, b) very boring, and c) has about 4 or 5 plausible solutions, only one of which is correct and you don't find out which until much later < 1254246581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :room 2 looks easy, which means it's probably hard < 1254246612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha went south, straight into water < 1254246613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this < 1254246671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, there's an infamous bit much later on in the level, which I've never reached < 1254246679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's a maze involving death-stones and swamp < 1254246693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does enigma 1.1 have the copyrighted music? < 1254246695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu's package doesn't < 1254246699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me :sad: < 1254246722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1 does, yes < 1254246741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1254246745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to svn repo or whatever? < 1254246783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn://svn.berlios.de/enigma-game < 1254246830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have the debian/ directory, I wonder? < 1254246848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely < 1254246854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the repo here, I'll check < 1254246924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, no debian/ directory < 1254246966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you want one/ < 1254246968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1254246976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it lets you make a .deb < 1254246978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll just use checkinstall < 1254246999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe in just hoping I never need to remove something from /usr/local, you see < 1254247013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is trunk rather stable or should I keep the repo around for updating?) < 1254247050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to rename things a lot, so keep the repo < 1254247065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they're forever fixing bugs and graphics and so on < 1254247068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and level shortcuts < 1254247071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does dpkg have a replace-package command? < 1254247079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., I know you have that deb; forget about it, this is the new version < 1254247086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically uninstall+reinstall, but still < 1254247105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as far as I know < 1254247111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I rarely mess with dpkg directly < 1254247116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when fixing broken distro upgrades < 1254247128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether he should install it in /usr or /usr/local < 1254247137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /usr would break any Ubuntu Enigma, unless, < 1254247139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it name things -1.1? < 1254247141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/local if you aren't using the package manager < 1254247145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1254247146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it just uses the old names < 1254247147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkinstall creates a deb < 1254247151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by looking at every filesystem change < 1254247154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a chroot < 1254247172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very clever, you can just do "sudo checkinstall", describe the package, and it installs it into dpkg with "make install" < 1254247179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install in /usr, uninstall if an official version comes out < 1254247187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254247189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed into /home, with a separate .enigma directory < 1254247193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION purges Ubuntu's Enigma < 1254247201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't want any stray conflicting configuration files...) < 1254247207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I didn't want to lose my records on the official Enigma while I worked on the development one < 1254247225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm terrible at it, so that's not a worry < 1254247239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether he should do something crazy, like symlink all my dotfiles into Dropbox < 1254247249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I used emacs, my .emacs would never be desynchronised! < 1254247264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~$ rm -rf .enigma < 1254247264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.enigma/ .enigmarc.xml < 1254247271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why do you have a directory if you have a file too? < 1254247295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking out enigma sure is taking a long time < 1254247313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 57th best in the world by level percentage completion < 1254247328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 56.73% < 1254247332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are only about 100 Enigma players :-P < 1254247337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than that < 1254247339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 200 < 1254247342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who score-submit < 1254247343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~/enigma-game$ ls < 1254247343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add-ons branches feature_branches homepage tags team_levelpacks trunk < 1254247349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could have linked me to the trunk... < 1254247363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders where to put the repo < 1254247367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's the only link I know < 1254247374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's the one on the website < 1254247376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should check it out with /trunk after it < 1254247379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise you could check out subrepos in svn < 1254247382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you check out every branch, the homepage, every release < 1254247383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1254247387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... slow. < 1254247393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't go in ~/Keep/2009-09/, because it changes... < 1254247401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should make ~/Volatile, or something < 1254247405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for stuff that changes that isn't mine < 1254247435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have ~/research/ which is almost exactly that < 1254247445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how academic that sounds < 1254247456 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-193-77.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254247490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of all my directories, it's probably the one with the most subdirs < 1254247508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from one that's a backup of stuff that was on previous computers < 1254247673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to use ~/Crap, but that's for crap I made already. < 1254247860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's the install going? < 1254247880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wiped the repo to redownload just the trunk, but I'm still hemming-and-hawing about a directory... < 1254247891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, how about ~/NIH? :-D < 1254247899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good one < 1254247910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/NIH/enigma go go go < 1254247914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether me liking something makes it more or less likely ehird will use it < 1254247936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the Enigma devs seem to be on holiday < 1254247941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder why I name bottom-level directories lowercase, but the rest Title-Cased English (although I rarely use anything but [A-Z][a-z]+) < 1254247943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only change last week was a tweak to the Makefile < 1254247946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/)/ < 1254247947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when normally there are loads of changes < 1254247956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably running out of things to change. < 1254247966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I submitted a huge number of new levels last week < 1254247999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6, it seems < 1254248004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with corrections to 2 more < 1254248143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now to figure out what I need to ./configure < 1254248150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ./autogen.sh < 1254248158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure.ac:110: warning: macro `AM_PATH_SDL' not found in library < 1254248162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should that *really* be a warning? :P < 1254248193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION build-deps enigma < 1254248279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they added one new dep, IIRC < 1254248283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't remember offhand what it's on < 1254248293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure i can handle one strenuous apt-get line < 1254248302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish bash had a name for '& disown' < 1254248306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like &! < 1254248310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gedit README &! < 1254248310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disown? < 1254248313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronounced "and STAY out!" < 1254248321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so if you close the terminal it stays < 1254248321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it deparents the process, I think < 1254248327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh has it < 1254248331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that yet another variant on nohup and friends? < 1254248333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, you have a bunch of background processes lying around < 1254248343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nohup is not actually meant to do it as its main purpose, I think < 1254248348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it creates "nohup.out" < 1254248355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, its main version is insulation from SIGHUP < 1254248358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I generally use it for < 1254248363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*main purpose < 1254248426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, I'm becoming a fan of Ubuntu's text rendering < 1254248456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that uh oh? < 1254248472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm losing everything that defines me!!! < 1254248478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, I saw that Reddit post on the differences between Arial and Helvetica; you're right, Helvetica's much better where they differ at all) < 1254248508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... are we swapping? < 1254248512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1254248512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please say no. < 1254248520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never disliked Helvetica, in that I never really had a chance to see it < 1254248572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing I notice most about Arial/Helvetica is the R < 1254248579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254248580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arial's slanted R just looks awful with all the other letters < 1254248584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1254248592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyingly, the R is Arial-like in this font too < 1254248594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looks bad here too < 1254248609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About That I'll Rant. < 1254248610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, indeed. < 1254248616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too bad amongst capitals, but glaring amongst lowercase < 1254248622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's monospaced, though, so it's not exactly a paragon of typographical elegance any way you look at it. < 1254248632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat-GNOME just looks awful in a proper font. < 1254248642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monospaced isn't meant to be typographically elegant, I don't think < 1254248644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten the term for non-monospaced... proportional. < 1254248655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether to start making separate build directories < 1254248658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1254248707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the INSTALL tells me to do it in-directory, so I will! also I am lazy. < 1254248730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people never bother to make really proper build systems, like C-INTERCAL's < 1254248735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --enable-tools Build developer tools default=no < 1254248742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what're they? are they shiny? < 1254248746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used them < 1254248754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they're for level development < 1254248759 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Proper, like C-INTERCAL's"? < 1254248764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds very oxymoronic < 1254248771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He may have being sarcastic < 1254248778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: INTERCAL attempts to be unlike all other programming languages < 1254248779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know, but can you, like, mess with scores and internal values and stuff, I wonder? < 1254248781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be fun. < 1254248787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this includes having a build system that supports everything < 1254248789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I'm aware < 1254248797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Everything"? < 1254248801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --enable-experimental Include experimental features default=no < 1254248803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as in-tree, out-of-tree, parallel make, running with and without install, and crosscompile < 1254248816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmm < 1254248816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks shiny. Looks dangerous. < 1254248817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --enable-optimize Compile with optimizations default=no (whyever not?) < 1254248821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few build systems can manage all of that < 1254248838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is optimisation disabled for dev purposes? < 1254248844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, maybe < 1254248848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably to make it easier to debug < 1254248849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? Seems relatively trivial to me < 1254248852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~/NIH/enigma$ ./configure --prefix=/usr --enable-tools --enable-experimental --enable-optimize < 1254248858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this will break stuff. < 1254248858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably! < 1254248859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gogogogogo < 1254248871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION updates system first, though < 1254248937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software Center is quite annoying at the moment... < 1254248950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now it's an Install/Remove... with an uglier interface and more confusing terminology < 1254248984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Software Center"? < 1254248989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "Ubuntu Software Center" both needlessly references Ubuntu in the menu and doesn't give any sort of hint; what's wrong with Install/Remove... or even clearer, Install/Remove Applications...? < 1254248998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: previously Software Store. Aren't you on Karmic alpha? < 1254249002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they're replacing Synaptic for Karmic, aren't they? < 1254249005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1254249006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.04. < 1254249010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on Jaunty-proposed < 1254249011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just replaces Install/Remove... atm. < 1254249027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means I get fixes before they're properly tested < 1254249031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'll replace Install/Remove..., Synaptic, Update Manager and Computer Janitor in 10.04 or thereabouts. < 1254249031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but am otherwise on Jaunty < 1254249058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as apt-get keeps working, I'll probably use that < 1254249063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the GUI things are too obnoxious < 1254249068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synaptic works but is kind-of bland < 1254249072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably that's all for the best...) < 1254249077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called "Ubuntu Software Center" in the Applications menu, which isn't helpful and references Ubuntu, uses a fixed blue colour scheme for the application view and the main page (think iTunes store), doesn't have enough whitespace < 1254249079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVING SAID THAT < 1254249086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In actual usage, it's just like Install/Remove.... < 1254249088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not much of a problem. < 1254249101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("....", agh. I need to start using the proper ellipsis character.) < 1254249118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what iTunes looks like < 1254249142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ShssuEE1cx0/SqTDb0dQhtI/AAAAAAAADuA/bH9ZyFPRhEM/s400/Spotify+iphone+App+store.jpg < 1254249158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine that thing's body, but far simpler and without the gradient; that's what Software Center looks like < 1254249191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: screenshot: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/software-center.png < 1254249217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1254249218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual design document on the Ubuntu wiki is excellent apart from the name and the "Department" terminology, but the application itself doesn't live up to it yet < 1254249231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it's fine as an Install/Remove... replacement and easier to use for e.g. package descriptions. < 1254249234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it has screenshots on some apps, which is fun. < 1254249255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably from the Debian Screenshot Project < 1254249258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254249265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a debian spiral when there is no screenshot < 1254249272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254249286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, that screenshot was ridiculously easy to take; I can just hit Print Screen, hit enter, go to Places -> Shared, right click it, and Dropbox -> Copy Public Link.) < 1254249297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It seems a bit convoluted, but I can have a URL to a screenshot on my clipboard in about five seconds.) < 1254249308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically I rename it before hitting enter, but. < 1254249315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: error: libcurl is required to compile Enigma < 1254249318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why. < 1254249331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Package libcurl-dev is a virtual package provided by: < 1254249331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : libcurl4-openssl-dev 7.19.5-1ubuntu2 < 1254249331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : libcurl4-gnutls-dev 7.19.5-1ubuntu2 < 1254249332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh/ < 1254249333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Uh. < 1254249383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl is to download the updated par times and world records < 1254249391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's opt-in on the options screen < 1254249400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which should I pick?) < 1254249412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of those didn't handle SSL parameter renegotiation (used when there are some directory-specific SSL-related things), but it's possible they both do it right nowadays. < 1254249414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably doesn't matter < 1254249423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APT is licensed under GPL. libcurl can be used with both OpenSSL and GnuTLS. In case of OpenSSL a special exemption clause would be required for making it possible to link with both libapt-pkg and OpenSSL. We will try to get a written permission to do this from the previous apt copyright holders. Until we have that, we will use gnutls. < 1254249430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254249434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the ubuntu wiki about apt+https < 1254249447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curl: libcurl GnuTLS insufficient cert verification Vulnerability < 1254249447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 Jul 2007 ... libcurl (when built to use GnuTLS) fails to verify that a peer's ... Note that libcurl needs to be built to use GnuTLS for this flaw to be ... < 1254249472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just ridiculous < 1254249492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenSSL I reasonably trust, although I'm not sure why < 1254249495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe I shouldn't < 1254249506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :openssl's code is gnarly < 1254249516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, gnutls seems to be way less popular < 1254249517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and GNU's code is gnuy < 1254249520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's that vulnerability < 1254249523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so openssl is probably a better bet < 1254249525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it fixed yet? < 1254249529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it would be... < 1254249532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, but still < 1254249541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't trust the GNU project to be very good with things like side-channel attacks < 1254249547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too busy making their code look like ELEGANT LISP < 1254249573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note, selecting libcurl4-gnutls-dev instead of libcurl4-dev < 1254249580 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if xmonad would be better than awesome; after all, Haskell obviously beats Lua, which I don't much like. < 1254249580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu tries to make my decision for me! < 1254249595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you just installed the virtual < 1254249597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it picked one? < 1254249599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The "it recompiles your configuration file to a binary then uses that instead of xmonad" rubs the wrong way with me. < 1254249604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's prompting me, but yes < 1254249609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's go with it, then < 1254249619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can always change < 1254249622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this explains why C-INTERCAL depends on "gcc or a C compiler" < 1254249630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's giving a strong hint that gcc is probably the best one to use < 1254249633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Saying "+" in aptitude on the xmonad line says "will use 111MB of disk space", which sounds a bit excessive. < 1254249643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's probably ghc. < 1254249647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is big. < 1254249652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You need the compiler for the configuration, you see. < 1254249658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's compiled and used instead of your xmonad binary. < 1254249668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention that xmonad's configuration is shoehorning Haskell? < 1254249670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254249680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have ghc already, though. But there's quite a lot of things that were not included by the "ghc6" package itself. < 1254249693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Debian's infamous shitsplitting strikes again. < 1254249696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It splits shit. < 1254249760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome's configuration file is a Lua script, and I get a vaguely ill feeling whenever I have to do something to it. < 1254249806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use ion3(plus), then. Not only does it use a Lua config file, it also has an obnoxious author and license. < 1254249833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't support my uneconomical penis extend... I mean, Xinerama. < 1254249843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a patch for that! < 1254249878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: iPhone app store parody? < 1254249880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enigma is now configured < 1254249880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Source directory: . < 1254249880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Installation prefix: /usr < 1254249880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : C++ compiler: g++ -DENABLE_ASSERT -O2 -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -DCXXLUA < 1254249880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Libraries: -lcurl -lxerces-c -lpng -ldl < 1254249881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Linker options: < 1254249883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Languages: de fr nl it es sv ru hu pt fi uk be el < 1254249885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If these values seem to make sense, you can now run make. < 1254249887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, no, but let's pretend it is; that's a good one < 1254249905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, according to the fact I used the wrong word there; I should've said "rub" instead of "support". < 1254249906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it take a long time, Enigma? to compile < 1254249917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe about 10 minutes on this computer < 1254249926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the install takes a while too, though, because it has to copy a huge number of files < 1254249926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll -j3, then. < 1254249930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2 cores * 1.5) < 1254249944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the *1.5 is apparently due to a scheduler bug < 1254249946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../src -DENABLE_ASSERT -O2 -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -DCXXLUA -MT extractbitmaps.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/extractbitmaps.Tpo -c -o extractbitmaps.o extractbitmaps.cpp < 1254249947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extractbitmaps.cpp: In function ‘int main(int, char**)’: < 1254249947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extractbitmaps.cpp:81: error: ‘exit’ was not declared in this scope < 1254249947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extractbitmaps.cpp:87: error: ‘exit’ was not declared in this scope < 1254249947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extractbitmaps.cpp:94: error: ‘exit’ was not declared in this scope < 1254249948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extractbitmaps.cpp:103: error: ‘exit’ was not declared in this scope < 1254249950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1254249953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(does Enigma parallel-make correctly, btw?) < 1254249960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems quite slow, but it probably works. < 1254249966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what a weird error? < 1254249981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did I mention, exit was not declared in this scope." < 1254250002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like someone forgot to include < 1254250011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed they did. < 1254250016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254250018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF. < 1254250023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't get that error... < 1254250023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do these people not... test this thing? < 1254250035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hm. < 1254250037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It includes stdio.h. < 1254250040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something weird. < 1254250046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe my options are fucking things up < 1254250055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdio.h? how quaint < 1254250060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a C++ file we're talking abuot < 1254250061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/ehird/NIH/enigma/lib-src/oxydlib' < 1254250062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about < 1254250075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so do you compile with the experimental features on? < 1254250077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--enable-experimental < 1254250097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I use standard config < 1254250104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that fun?! < 1254250104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, configure without arguments except for prefix < 1254250105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254250110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But okay, that's probably for the best. < 1254250113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will also not provide support for versions of Ion that have been corrupted with support for such things as Xft/fontconfig, and such versions may not be distributed as “Ion”." < 1254250115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game is fun, the compile doesn't have to be < 1254250132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you could just use multiple root windows, you know < 1254250177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to stab people who use recursive make. < 1254250179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also autotools. < 1254250179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, I want Firefox windows on multiple screens without running multiple instances, and as far as I know it still can't do that. < 1254250203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: VNC to a non-displayed screen < 1254250221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that there sounds like an elegant solution. < 1254250229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. < 1254250237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Or use a better browser! < 1254250242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Like Opera! Tuomov looooooooves Opera. < 1254250256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially because it doesn't use GTK+, which is horrible GNOME crap. < 1254250271 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254250335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"density: command not found". < 1254250339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try that but without parallel. < 1254250350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What is density?) < 1254250400 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254250401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1254250403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't in the repos < 1254250416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be an Enigma thing that didn't get compiled yet, then. < 1254250429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be one of those funky dev tools < 1254250433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you're trying to compile < 1254250443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I gave up on that. < 1254250448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is generating some artwork stuff. < 1254250602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still can't fucking find it. < 1254250606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think density is some imagemagick thing. < 1254250625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs it < 1254250669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try that again < 1254250683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it has density; mine has the binaries compare, animate, convert, composite, conjure, import, identify, stream, display, montage and mogrify. < 1254250712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there a file listing all the deps...? < 1254250721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, packages.debian.org finds a "density" binary only from 'emboss', a molecular biology thing. < 1254250744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not as far as I know < 1254250750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the calls look like ImageMagick calls. < 1254250769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :density -PixelResolution 154x324 {...} foo.png ../bar.png < 1254250776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(made up, just an example of the s < 1254250776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/convert -density 112x112 -units PixelsPerCentimeter -crop 48x48+0+0 ../../../data/gfx48/it_coin_s.png it_coin_s.png < 1254250780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1254250782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tried to find convert. < 1254250785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It couldn't find it. < 1254250790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So $(CONVERT) -density became -density. < 1254250794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And somehow the shell dropped the -. < 1254250795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it < 1254250800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... the rest is ... < 1254250800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1254250805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, Make dropped the - < 1254250807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a special meaning in make, IIRC < 1254250811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't remember what it is < 1254250815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/convert -density 112x112 -units PixelsPerCentimeter -crop 48x48+0+288 ../../../data/gfx48/thief_capture_template.png thief_template.png < 1254250815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[3]: *** [st_thief_drunken.png] Aborted (core dumped) < 1254250815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[3]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs.... < 1254250815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, that is... that is not good. < 1254250836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would imagemagick be doing that? < 1254250844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I. I don't know. < 1254250848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me clean, configure and try again. < 1254250849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make has a special meaning for the - prefix, it's that ignore-errors thing or something. < 1254250856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without -j3. < 1254250860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That'd explain why it did multiple ones. < 1254250864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To ignore errors in a command line, write a `-' at the beginning of the line's text (after the initial tab). The `-' is discarded before the command is passed to the shell for execution. " < 1254250867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And errored out when it tried to access the produced files. < 1254250871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a fun error. < 1254250893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have been even more fun if the first command-line option had been a real command < 1254250974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like rm -f, destroying the source files < 1254250982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why are you doing that, Enigma?" < 1254251004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unlikely that a program would accept -rm -f as options, and that someone would write it like that and not as -rmf < 1254251017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :convert assert failure: convert: magick/image.c:4516: SyncImagesSettings: Assertion `images != (Image *) ((void *)0)' failed. < 1254251017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CancelOk < 1254251017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/imagemagick/+bug/438884 < 1254251019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reported with glee. < 1254251032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how that only took a few clicks. < 1254251050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ImageMagick style programs don't allow -combiningoptionsbecausetheyrelikelongoptions < 1254251055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254251068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but programs with long - options tend not to use names like "rm" and "f" < 1254251082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever seen rxvt options (and maybe xterm)? < 1254251084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-sb for scrollbar. < 1254251085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-bg, -fg. < 1254251108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, without -j3 it works. Coincidence or crazy ImageMagick bug? < 1254251116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can only run two instances of ImageMagick at once" < 1254251129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, install checkinstall then sudo checkinstall time. < 1254251144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the image file was somehow unlinked while it was running? < 1254251155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The package documentation directory ./doc-pak does not exist. < 1254251155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I create a default set of package docs? [y]: < 1254251155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a tricky question. < 1254251163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can sort-of imagine an fstat to check size, followed by opening after that, and crashing if it was unset in-between < 1254251164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Enigma's documentation built by default? < 1254251171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it is < 1254251184 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@83.194.44.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254251194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and very useful if you plan to make any levels < 1254251199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(less useful but not bad if you just plan to play) < 1254251203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I need to move it around. Blah. < 1254251219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just read it from the build tree, though < 1254251235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it'll do "make install" like normal; it just won't go into the official package thingy, whatever that is. < 1254251243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you know what, I don't even fucking care :P < 1254251266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION copies Ubuntu's description of Enigma < 1254251326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for "This package contains the game engine." :P < 1254251340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 - Maintainer: [ root@ehird-desktop ] < 1254251350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great maintainer < 1254251370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o Optionally you can make a directory called "doc-pak" whose contents < 1254251370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : will be installed in /usr/doc/ inside the package you're < 1254251370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : about to create. checkinstall will remind you about this one if it notices < 1254251370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : there is no "doc-pak" on the source directory. Good candidates to be there < 1254251370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : are: README, INSTALL, COPYING, Changelog, TODO, CREDITS, etc. It's up to you < 1254251371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what to copy in there. < 1254251376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ^C < 1254251380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy to do that. < 1254251390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it'll already do that. < 1254251390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So to hell with it. < 1254251414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets maintainer to ehird@ehird-desktop for logi < 1254251419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/c/ < 1254251451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll name it enigma-svn < 1254251521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so this is 1.1, right? < 1254251533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 1.01 (1.1 compatibility branch) < 1254251534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 - Version: [ 1.1 ] < 1254251534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 - Release: [ 1 ] < 1254251534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1254251548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should release be something like svn1077 (the revision number?) < 1254251554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the engine is 1.1-compatible almost exactly, the interface is somewhere in-between < 1254251565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that what you use? < 1254251574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as what? < 1254251581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev enigma < 1254251589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, for level development < 1254251593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and playing new API levels < 1254251598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254251601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the Ubuntu package for playing old ones < 1254251607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should release be svn1077 or whatever? < 1254251626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1254251635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may want to call the version something like 1.1~svn1077 < 1254251644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it sorts correctly in debianbetical order < 1254251647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 - Version: [ 1.01 ] < 1254251647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 - Release: [ svn1815 ] < 1254251648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what that maps to < 1254251671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, who cares < 1254251686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 1.1? isn't it 1.01? :P < 1254251706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 - Group: [ checkinstall ] < 1254251706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... sure < 1254251717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could count forwards instead < 1254251720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 - Source location: [ enigma ] < 1254251720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 - Alternate source location: [ ] < 1254251720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 - Requires: [ ] < 1254251720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 - Provides: [ enigma ] < 1254251720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1254251724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Debianese, 1.1~ means "before 1.1 < 1254251725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254251731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes provides to enigma-svn < 1254251740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, I can always change it < 1254251741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this'll do < 1254251759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :provides is for things that depend on it < 1254251761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :======================== Installation successful ========================== < 1254251761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: /var/tmp/tmp.YhomUNcJHg/newfile: No such file or directory < 1254251762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reassuring < 1254251779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, "provides: enigma" means that things that depend on enigma will be OK to install if it's installed < 1254251784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying files to the temporary directory... < 1254251786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[silence] < 1254251791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right; don't want to mess with that < 1254251793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it's going on < 1254251797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installing debian package! < 1254251805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Done. The new package has been installed and saved to < 1254251805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /home/ehird/NIH/enigma/enigma-svn_1.01-svn1815_amd64.deb < 1254251805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can remove it from your system anytime using: < 1254251805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dpkg -r enigma-svn < 1254251817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1254251820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's apt-cache show on a .deb? < 1254251837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-I < 1254251837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg -I < 1254251847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Version: 1.01-svn1815 < 1254251849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's acceptable < 1254251857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's -svn, using ~ doesn't make sense < 1254251864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it'll almost immediately advance beyond any particular release < 1254251871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Depends: < 1254251873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tee hee < 1254251875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... s > 3 < 1254251882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that'll sort correctly wrt the released versions < 1254251887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1254251890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares, anyway < 1254251892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it's in my menu < 1254251915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be from Ubuntu, but who cares < 1254251929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you lied, the music is different :( < 1254251946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254251946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change it < 1254251946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1254251946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are two < 1254251946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it alternates between them < 1254251946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enter a level and exit < 1254251960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pentagonal Dreams! < 1254251965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me, or is the mouseover button effect obnoxiously loud? < 1254251978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pentagonal Dreams is the catchy and legally dubious one < 1254251979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be; you can tone effects down in options < 1254251980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll stick with it < 1254251998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default's to alternate < 1254251999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ups the resolution < 1254252002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use? I use 800x600 < 1254252002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I know the names of the musics < 1254252005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *defaults < 1254252009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use 960x720 < 1254252013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1254252015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it fits exactly between the panels < 1254252017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the screen < 1254252022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254252025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort-of the perfect size for this screen res < 1254252037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024x768 puts a border around some levels < 1254252045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess 800x600 is "show me all of it" < 1254252069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns on ratings update < 1254252069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of mine are in the dev version < 1254252086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do a search for "Alex Smith" if you're interested < 1254252087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peculiar UI for choosing a language; shouldn't it be based on locale? < 1254252093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has SEARCHES? < 1254252098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under "level pack" < 1254252111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click "search" and it'll create a "search results" levelpack for you < 1254252124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat@tutorial level sierpinski < 1254252136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that one's always fun < 1254252156 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254252178 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d905f5@gateway/web/freenode/x-qkujatmyuhfmpnyr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254252202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, my system lags loading the IX thumbnails < 1254252211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's regenerating them < 1254252216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coffee? do I spot a joke? < 1254252219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IX#2) < 1254252219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thumbnails only need generation once < 1254252234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, not a joke < 1254252241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed to find 9 useless items that looked different < 1254252248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(useless in the context of the level, except for a specific reason) < 1254252260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's yours? < 1254252261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even notice < 1254252264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I wrotei t < 1254252266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*wrote it) < 1254252277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's sudoku < 1254252277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254252295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mouse speeds in this version are slower < 1254252302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 is acceptable, whereas it was intolerable before < 1254252308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting < 1254252320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or you're playing my levels and I generally use high-friction floor < 1254252329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that might've been the floor < 1254252333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my only level in IX; most of them are in VIII < 1254252336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iower i < 1254252337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by /dev/null < 1254252350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#83 to #88 inclusive are all mine < 1254252353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in VIII < 1254252415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you might recognise a couple of them from Agora, if you were paying attention there; I translated them) < 1254252440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm walking without fear in VIII#6, have covered most of the level, and only died once, on my first tile < 1254252452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it disables after the first boom :P < 1254252455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great level < 1254252463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after it explodes, it's unsolvable < 1254252487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's another level along the same lines as Su Dyxo and Enigris < 1254252493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an "update level times now" button? < 1254252496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enigiris? is that tetris? < 1254252500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1254252511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow searching is awkward < 1254252511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the old version, somewhere in level pack IV IIRC, and of course hasn't been deleted < 1254252521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click a button, enter, go to level packs again, all level packs, choose search results < 1254252523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, having to hover the mouse in one place, that's a UI fail IMO < 1254252540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean hover it? < 1254252553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it should jump straight to the search results pack if you search < 1254252577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they fixed it < 1254252578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1254252584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you used to have to hover the search box to be able to type there < 1254252599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's jumping straight to the search results for me, if I click on "search" < 1254252599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254252599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Experimental#6 is solvable < 1254252603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried pressing return < 1254252607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm < 1254252609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is for me too < 1254252655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and experimental#6 appears to have no pearls (for a meditation level), no oxyds, and no opals < 1254252655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think it's unsolvable < 1254252725 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1254252755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno#dunno Fool the Warden is fun < 1254252759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(searched for foo) < 1254252767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the old ones IIRC < 1254252936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt your comment about coffee, finding uses for coffee has been a sort-of habit for level designers < 1254252943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hobby < 1254252955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you can block lasers with it < 1254253157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fool the warden keeps me playing... < 1254253184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one annoys me < 1254253191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's easy but time-consuming until right at the end < 1254253203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm not sure what the correct order to move the pearls in is < 1254253212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... if I'm thinking of the right level < 1254253217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be thinking of something else < 1254253301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it < 1254253351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that one < 1254253354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one annoys me too < 1254253359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different one, though < 1254253361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254253373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1254253438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just completed it in 1:02 < 1254253443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously I've got better since I last tried < 1254253460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, playing it on the version that actually counts! < 1254253481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the one I was discussing before was "Fool the Watchdog") < 1254253487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the ball have a speed limit? < 1254253493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I did it before < 1254253509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think there are speed limits apart from mouse detection and floating-point roundoff errors < 1254253520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm spinning between... I think ice, and space < 1254253537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently going up/down very rapidly, only slightly left < 1254253537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before that i was bashing around wildly < 1254253537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite fun to watch, and i'm flickering < 1254253542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the mouse speed is ignored in space, and mostly ignored in ice < 1254253542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think i'm going insanely fast < 1254253542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since i dropped two items < 1254253547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i hit that column < 1254253547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both popped instantly < 1254253551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, you're going insanely fast < 1254253576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like i'm going smoothly now, but I bet i'm going so fast, it just looks that way < 1254253599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't there used to be a thing that'd reset you back < 1254253613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, an item? to jump back to the start? < 1254253619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it_ring does that on a single-player level < 1254253620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but after a while on space, you got put back < 1254253628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's never been the case < 1254253632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i escaped! < 1254253635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a level did i t < 1254253635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although people often either put magnets near space, or add gravity < 1254253638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1254253647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i skipped over solid stuff < 1254253647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that sort of reason < 1254253651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just glided to a reset position < 1254253661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god invisible blocks < 1254253666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1.1new#21) < 1254253704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike that one < 1254253716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as I went round the massive level twice and still couldn't figure out what I was meant to do < 1254253941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1new#25 argh < 1254254018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol@1.1new#40 < 1254254056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for you to comment on one of eirs < 1254254067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION searches < 1254254084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rainbow Adjacencies: oh god. < 1254254103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you remember that one? < 1254254108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Agora? < 1254254110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1254254112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1254254113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1254254181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like its preview image < 1254254212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Six To Twenty-Six: what is this I don't even < 1254254257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also from Agora < 1254254258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transforming Numbers: um < 1254254263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the other Agoran level < 1254254272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Transforming Numbers is great, it's one of my favourites out of my own levels < 1254254278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deathbridge: Oh no, not this again. ...better try it < 1254254321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have a go at Transforming Numbers (since renamed Number Crunching); note that that version has a shortcut but it's not one you're likely to discover, so playing an unfixed version should be fine < 1254254417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies in Deathbridge, goes again < 1254254442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, it took me months to discover the shortcut, and I wrote the level in the first place...) < 1254254455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't such a shortcut good? < 1254254462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not really < 1254254462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1254254469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *Deathbridge, goes < 1254254470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn spaces < 1254254479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shortcut of the nature of "1% of the time this level is really easy, most of the time it's standard-difficulty") < 1254254489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically just encourages grinding < 1254254495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/)// < 1254254504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so not knowledge-based? < 1254254508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254254519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it's only ever come up twice to my knowledge < 1254254525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and once it was someone else who reported it < 1254254529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "if we slip here, turn this on, bash these here, turn that off and turn on the laser, it hits the block to open up the passageway accidentally" < 1254254542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of randomness in level generation < 1254254548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that level < 1254254559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't even influence it in the level play itself < 1254254683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with IX#7? < 1254254693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and is there a more standard naming convention than what I'm using?) < 1254254702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are using the standard < 1254254713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in the dev versions, we generally just use names as the numbers aren't fixed yet < 1254254714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even 1.1new? < 1254254719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in 1.1new#foo < 1254254727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for that < 1254254733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite obvious, though < 1254254737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use the names in the Enigma packs, as every level's in one of those < 1254254744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to look up, though < 1254254751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1254254753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's technically in the level info, but < 1254254776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen the opal levels, by the way? < 1254254779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minopal, symopal, etc < 1254254785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there enigma pong? oh, you made it didn't you? < 1254254787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope; pack? < 1254254801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall your enigma pong sucking < 1254254802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 1.1 new has several, or I'll find a reference in VIII if you like < 1254254805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did < 1254254807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't submitted it < 1254254822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION searches for opal < 1254254827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIII#56 is the first < 1254254832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the first? Minopal? < 1254254838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symopal? Brilliant Opals? < 1254254839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIII#57 is the only one I've actually done, though < 1254254855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Minopal's first) < 1254254856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and Coober Peddy is the one I've done) < 1254254880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1254254885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an idea for enigma tennis < 1254254906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those little white balls, and the lua code makes it jump across some solid blocks when it hits < 1254254912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do bouncing, but oh well < 1254254920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why solid? < 1254254927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use st_portal_pearl < 1254254927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could enforce e.g. 1 hit/2 hits max < 1254254933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which bounces everything but little white balls < 1254254934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because you should bash into it < 1254254937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254254939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's good then < 1254254954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus@minopal < 1254254959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for most of the things you want in Enigma, there'll be some object that does something similar...) < 1254255040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is minopal meant to be hard? < 1254255049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1254255052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the new levels /are/ hard < 1254255059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just tedious so far < 1254255064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently so that I'm deliberately aiming to make easier ones to bring the average difficulty down < 1254255072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue with opal levels normally happens towards the end < 1254255081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you end up stranding a couple of the opals < 1254255084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254255086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm fucked then < 1254255091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just been bashing them semi-randomly < 1254255095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finding matching ones < 1254255268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: idea for enigma tennis - oxyds randomly appear on the opponent's side < 1254255278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not only do you have to shoot in a way advantageous to you over the AI, you have to try and hit the oxyds < 1254255291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, creating and deleting oxyds is a pain < 1254255292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the opponent can, at your side, shoot blocks which invert your movement or something and act as obstacles for you to boot) < 1254255296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean, just randomly generating them? < 1254255311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I guess < 1254255318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter idea is even more fun, though < 1254255329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to avoid it because it'll harm you, and you have to desperately defend it from your opponent < 1254255334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until it disappears < 1254255344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe it disappears by hitting a block on the opponent's side) < 1254255354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you defend an oxyd from your opponent? < 1254255360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an oxyd < 1254255360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter who hits it < 1254255365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defending a quake stone would be more fun < 1254255367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because it inverts your movement < 1254255373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254255375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to avoid it, and stop your opponent hitting it < 1254255379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quake - like earthquake? < 1254255381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd work too < 1254255383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that sort of stuff < 1254255386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there are any movement-inversion stones, although you could script it with a monoflop < 1254255389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quake = reset all oxyds < 1254255395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch :D < 1254255398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254255401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you do an earthquake? < 1254255404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move all blocks left < 1254255406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move all blocks right < 1254255410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other ideas: cracks (that cause the floor to weaken and eventually disappear), that's earthquake-like < 1254255411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including balls and everything) < 1254255414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the player < 1254255416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapidly < 1254255419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a few seconds < 1254255423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also a few blocks instead of one, likely) < 1254255432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe make the player shake a bit to boot < 1254255442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh man, cracks would be great < 1254255447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if the ball goes in :D < 1254255452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tennis ball < 1254255459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would lose a life and respawn < 1254255467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I double-punned this into Enigmenace, but that doesn't mention tennis :P < 1254255470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit weird for tennis balls to lose life, but that's the way the game works... < 1254255472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enigmennis < 1254255491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could it be rescripted so that the ball, as soon as it hits it, just disappears and you lose a point? < 1254255511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of the game, you have to wait a certain amount of time depending on the final score, too < 1254255513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to add to the time) < 1254255513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just give it infinite lives, that's pretty simple < 1254255524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i thought you meant respawn the whole player < 1254255528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, make it so you win when you're, say, 10 points up < 1254255537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1254255570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, you'd die if the player fell through a crack < 1254255578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even a simple it_crack_s would be rather dangerous < 1254255582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if was set not to spread fast < 1254255644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you give the player infinite lives for that part? < 1254255649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1254255654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more fun: a life dispenser < 1254255657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, the player falling through the crack should count as a death, no? < 1254255660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere off the court, say < 1254255660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ha! < 1254255661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have time-out < 1254255662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1254255664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\ns/s/ < 1254255671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you had to neglect the game for a bit to stock up < 1254255674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in the time-outs, there's one of those things that chase you and kill you < 1254255680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, you could have a switch that fixed the floor < 1254255682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an extra sort of level thing < 1254255687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, this'll be great < 1254255879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the AI would have to be pretty good, though < 1254255883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it'd be easy < 1254255890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, how about a block that connects you to the tennis ball? < 1254255897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, that connects the opponent to you < 1254255908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a switch that adds a rubberband? wouldn't be too hard < 1254255920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could have it happen when the opponent ran over a rubberband item < 1254255920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the question is what sort of game mechanics it leads to < 1254255944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :improving the AI shouldn't be hard with the new API < 1254255950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lets you do much more interesting things than the old one did < 1254255958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible, horrible idea: multiball mode! < 1254255975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leading to additional idea: Enigma pinball. < 1254255990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that, but the flippers would be hard to do < 1254255995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you couldn't really see what was going on < 1254256003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't in some pinball games for dos, either < 1254256008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the scrolling mode < 1254256009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without some crazy messing about with primary actors and scroll modes; actually, I think I know how to do that) < 1254256120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick would be to set the pinball as the primary actor for the player, but make it uncontrollable < 1254256124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably using space or zero adhesion < 1254256128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, you wouldn't need other actors < 1254256136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for flippers, just put areas of controllable floor < 1254256231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put oxyds around the level? < 1254256261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in typical pinbally places, I suppose < 1254256272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue would be the lack of angled surfaces < 1254256287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Enigmennis, with its horrible name, sounds like a more fun idea < 1254256291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without those it would look unrealistic and be hard to prevent the ball getting stuck < 1254256362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enigma should add networked multiplayer, I can see a lot of potential in both cooperative and competitive levels < 1254256374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like one where you need to move both the black and white balls at the same time to achieve something; cooperative < 1254256379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or enigmennis; competitive < 1254256482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they want to add networked multiplayer < 1254256491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently it's rather hard due to the way the code is structured < 1254256497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and lag could destroy it quite easily) < 1254256526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's already ways to set levels to work as networked multiplayer levels < 1254256529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no way to test the result < 1254256703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you can do an enigma level totally in lua with a shitty xml description file right? < 1254256721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a point-'n-click editor for laying out the basic structure? < 1254256762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you want anything that produces anything more recent than the 0.83 level format < 1254256766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 0.83 objects < 1254256774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1254256774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, the new Lua API is very good < 1254256784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I have to memorise silly symbols for the basic layout :) < 1254256786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the XML wrapper's a bit annoying < 1254256792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't memorise symbols < 1254256796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write your own list < 1254256796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you put the lua in a separate file? < 1254256807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think that might be worse < 1254256809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1254256823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a look at the source for a simple level, like my Three Times Through < 1254256832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a list of tile definitions, followed by an ASCII art map of tiles < 1254256844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Garbage Collection? In a kernel module? < 1254256844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As someone who spends an inordinate amount of time staring at a spinning clock on a blackberry because *its* code is all written in garbage-collected Java, no thanks." < 1254256858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because a mobile with Java is totally comparable with GHC on a desktop. < 1254256872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC? in a kernel module? < 1254256878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tommd.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/kernel-modules-in-haskell/ < 1254256881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you betcha < 1254256889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought you meant embedding the compiler < 1254256901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kghc would be kind-of fun, after all < 1254256906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(proof-of-concept of course; uses the House OS's ghc patch so it's ghc 6.8.2 which is years old; latest is 6.10.14) < 1254256912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've thought of making C-INTERCAL have a kernel module version just for the sheer ridiculousness < 1254256917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*6.10.4 < 1254256924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd run that on my laptop. No joke. < 1254256927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can compile INTERCAL in your kernel! < 1254256941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I do that, I'd make it output kernel modules < 1254256947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yeah, sane Ubuntu and all, but I *am* silly and my OS should reflect that. < 1254256949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it would have to use a userspace C compiler as part of it < 1254256988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so happy to be using metacity instead of compiz < 1254256990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiz sucks. < 1254257005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I kind-of like compiz < 1254257009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on hardware where it works properly < 1254257015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks snazzy at first < 1254257018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one, it's unstable < 1254257020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when it doesn't clash with software < 1254257022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, it places windows really terribly < 1254257024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, completely unusably < 1254257032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I normally have windows maximised < 1254257037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three, that fading of windows and menus gets tiring when you realise it makes you wait longer < 1254257061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can either place windows in corners (retarded), center all of them (retarded), or cascade from the top-left regardless of the positions of existing windows (retarded) < 1254257068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metacity's is 1000x saner < 1254257084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it for keyboard shorcuts < 1254257098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like control-super-n to tell my music player to put up a notification about the name of the current track < 1254257108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wrote that shortcut, it isn't a default) < 1254257117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that got to do with compiz? < 1254257131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's compiz that implements the shortcut < 1254257143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you can do that without replacing your wm < 1254257177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder how I record loopback in Audacity on linux < 1254257183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, record what's about to be sent to the speakers < 1254257303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Audacity's about dialog ends with the button "OK... Audacious!" < 1254257306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just imagine the developer there, going < 1254257313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"how will people know audacity is something special? something different?" < 1254257320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we need to demonstrate that we're fun... and unconventional" < 1254257323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tap tap tap < 1254257330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set_label(okBtn, "OK... Audacious!"); < 1254257334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perfect!" < 1254257371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My version doesn't have the exclamation point there. < 1254257408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audacity also has a screenshot tool built-in. < 1254257426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what that means, someone came across that line < 1254257427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked at it < 1254257428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considered it < 1254257431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :added an exclamation point < 1254257433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then moved on < 1254257441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE >_< < 1254257451 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254257453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, fucking hell < 1254257456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really does have a screenshot tool < 1254257490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "Blue Bkgnd" button in the screenshot tool. < 1254257505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/audacity-screenshot-tool.png < 1254257506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awful < 1254257519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you take that screenshot with the tool? :p < 1254257536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what those black pixels in the top-right of that window are < 1254257536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, GNOME's :P < 1254257544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and told it to add the window shadow, because I was feeling fancy < 1254257551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I think the pixels around the edge are from the background; it's dropshadowing a rectangle < 1254257556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the window isn't rectangle < 1254257592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My GTK is uglier, ha-ha: http://zem.fi/~fis/audacap.png < 1254257626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed it is. < 1254257633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine's the default Ubuntu 9.10 theme; quite appealing, < 1254257635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*appealing. < 1254257647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yours makes it look slightly more organised, though. < 1254257667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's not a bad theme. Just quite sparse. < 1254257685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the theme is something called "Mist". I played around with the GTK settings a bit, then mostly gave it up. < 1254257685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine's rather easier to differentiate widgets, though. < 1254257690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also my font rendering is nicer. :P < 1254257695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's Mist. < 1254257718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's far better than some of the truly sinful KDE themes. < 1254257732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got a bit unconventional-looking checkboxes; it just draws a smaller filled rectangle in the box, instead of an X. < 1254258219 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254258501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there a good level to copy the file of for lua-heavy stuff? < 1254258513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some template levels < 1254258528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's best to use a lua-light level and then add to it, I find < 1254258535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as lua-heavy levels tend to be rather different in the heavy stuff < 1254258613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but I don't actually know any of the lua < 1254258798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the docs are pretty good < 1254258821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I sort of have an allergy to manual-format docs < 1254258824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ I/I/ < 1254258952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually Texinfo, I'm almost certain < 1254258965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a joke right < 1254259009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: VIII#8 - I have a feeling from the starting message that the solution to this level is going to (a) make me groan (b) be terribly nerdy < 1254259036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not a joke: it gives links Texinfo-style, and occasionally they mess it up and raw Texinfo gets into the docs < 1254259050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean documents in the writing style of a manual. < 1254259059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254259061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to, e.g. a series of tutorials (which I can tolerate if they're short). < 1254259076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the docs are about writing levels, I'd expect them to be manually < 1254259083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly manuals read like a list of "here's stuff we couldn't fit in elegantly, so we'll try and sort of connect them together into one huge essay" < 1254259087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as they describe the API, and the behaviour of every object in the game, etc < 1254259125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :API references, I can do. Tutorials, I can do. Examples dissected bit-by-bit, I can do. Pseudo-essays attempting to tie a bunch of dry prose about the facts, I can't do. < 1254259171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets better later on < 1254259228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read it; I was just defining what a manual is. :P < 1254259347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: VIII#43 aaaargh < 1254259359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1254259377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wtf@coffee in a meditation level) < 1254259412 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254259417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi impomatic < 1254259433 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523 :-) < 1254259451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunaletly --VIII#70 < 1254259477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are too many levels like that one, unfortunately < 1254259484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illmind obviously wrote t his < 1254259486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this < 1254259493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hihi", bad grammar and spelling, ~foo~ < 1254259499 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much recent action on the BF Joust hill :-( < 1254259505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately not < 1254259512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Babylon? no, that was mecke, who has similar style < 1254259520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're running out of BF Joust ideas < 1254259523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1254259532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea: Enigma Joust. < 1254259540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, how would that work? < 1254259545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea; horribly < 1254259558 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would enigma map making be TC? < 1254259562 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1254259568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1254259570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has Lua scripting < 1254259574 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1254259598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's TC even without, so long as something like a coin dispenser were implemetned < 1254259600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implemented < 1254259613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use timings on coinslots as Minsky machine variables < 1254259757 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That actually sounds like some interesting limitations < 1254259898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, enigma levels can be tc on their own? < 1254259943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite, as it's hard to see how to get infinite storage < 1254259969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coinslots would work by storing unbounded numbers in time (assuming the engine can handle unbounded times, which I suspect it can't) < 1254259982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does deathbridge change under hard? < 1254259995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the glass is replaced by a solid deathstone, rather than vanishing < 1254260000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't shortcut by hitting it on the corner < 1254260021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :danger flag? < 1254260036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free extra life on easy < 1254260057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on your starting square, so you basically just start with 3 of them rather than 2 < 1254260060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even forgotten how to survive past losing your lives... < 1254260096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what... that one... is < 1254260105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1254260122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a floppy thing in it, and crumbling tiles < 1254260126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a black background < 1254260139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1254260143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crumble behind you tiles < 1254260145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all crumbling tiles apart from, like, two safe spots < 1254260199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that one < 1254260203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second screen's nasty, though < 1254260204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called? < 1254260210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember < 1254260328 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1254260639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1254260860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no idea? < 1254260874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254260904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a quick shellscript using grep to scan for all levels containing both it_floppy and it_crack? < 1254260912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll be tons < 1254260913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, make that [-_] as the items were renamed) < 1254260937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IV#96 is really hard < 1254260981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep -rl 'it[-_]floppy' . | xargs grep -l 'it[-_]crack' | wc -l < 1254260982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 < 1254260993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, alright then < 1254260995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what directory? < 1254261012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 I know aren't there due to being in the wrong levelpacks < 1254261030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll run the others through less < 1254261059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "No Jumping Necessary" in Enigma I the one you're thinking of/ < 1254261064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the first one, which is nice < 1254261107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254261109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the one you were? < 1254261118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254261159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rhapsody on Cracks" also fits your description, it seems (apart from the black background), but it isn't that one I was thinking of < 1254261170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Intel porting their Concurrent Collections library to Haskell" < 1254261179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is haskell still irrelevant? < 1254261296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will always be irrelevant, even when everyone in the world uses it < 1254261303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254261370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I saw an interview with someone at Microsoft Research who said that Haskell was producing useful ideas for F#, which would eventually filter into C# < 1254261373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he was missing the point < 1254261397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he was advertising MS technologies. < 1254261406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, fair enough < 1254261417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit, am I really turning into a cynical foss zealot :) < 1254261420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to force Haskell into anything else just seems wrong, though < 1254261433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can be cynical without being a floss zealot < 1254261438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254261440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy to be cynical all the time < 1254261459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, C# does an impressive job of not seeming like a hodge-podge with its functional features, but the only haskelly thing it has is LINQ < 1254261464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse, I'm both cynical /and/ idealistic, which is almost but not quite a contradiction < 1254261469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can be cynical of Microsoft without being a zealot. < 1254261481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft has done much to justify cynicism. < 1254261487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pI\Uffffffff pikhq --my IRC client < 1254261488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254261491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the \U displays as [X] < 1254261497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when tabbing pi < 1254261498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1254261499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1254261509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: true, but Haskell comes out of Microsoft Research, practically < 1254261523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spj, marlow, ... < 1254261561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to think Microsoft Research was funded by Microsoft to try to make them look good < 1254261566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, big reward, low cost < 1254261570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm no longer sure < 1254261574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And Microsoft Research is quite different from the rest of Microsoft. "Do interesting things. Make it make our stuff better if you can." versus "PROFIT IS IMPERATIVE. COMPETITION DETECTED. EXTERMINATE!" < 1254261597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1254261597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might work at Microsoft Research, but never Microsoft < 1254261608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although MS research would probably force me to use windows < 1254261614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are given 1,000,000.00 < 1254261615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254261615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inbox X < 1254261615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254261615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254261615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reply < 1254261617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254261619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| < 1254261621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :British 2009 Program < 1254261623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : to info < 1254261625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254261627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show details 19:05 (2 hours ago) < 1254261629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254261631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are given 1,000,000.00 Pounds by the British Telecom Promotion, Provide < 1254261633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your Name,Address,Occupation < 1254261635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, sorry for the spam < 1254261637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't look like that in gmail < 1254261641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the above is an example of (a) beautiful minimalist expression, (b) lottery spam < 1254261643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole email < 1254261649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are given 1,000,000.00 Pounds by the British Telecom Promotion, Provide < 1254261649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your Name,Address,Occupation" < 1254261651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1254261653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lottery < 1254261655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1254261662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :british telecom, in promoting with their 2009 program, have given you a million pounds. < 1254261667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple. < 1254261674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you meant to reply to it? < 1254261679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to promote goodwill to their products, I guess. < 1254261679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to the email's reply address? < 1254261681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1254261687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from telecom58@9.cn < 1254261691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyword "58" < 1254261698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.cn is a suspiciously short domain name < 1254261703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hosted by Windows Live < 1254261709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a custom domain thing < 1254261719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to info@rog < 1254261722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want info@rog < 1254261814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, did you know that n@ai (or something) is a valid address? it's owned by an Ian, who is the tech guy for the NIC of that domain < 1254261818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact. < 1254261827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I did know that < 1254261845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly cause i mentioned it before < 1254261901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet that breaks loads of email validation regexen < 1254261911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost all < 1254261919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how cool is it to administer a root TLD? < 1254261926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you literally own the domain "ai" < 1254261928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ai. < 1254261931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1254261935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1254261957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever mainly administrates the root domain should give themselves @. < 1254261958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, e@. < 1254261965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for short (like you wouldn't say google.com.), e@ < 1254261982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make it a symbol < 1254261983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!@. < 1254261988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only totally symbolic email address < 1254262002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1254262004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an empty one < 1254262008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is an empty email address valid? < 1254262009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't is it < 1254262012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, @domain.com < 1254262015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't we conclude it wasn't? < 1254262025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was < 1254262030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, though < 1254262035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, anyway, your email would be @ < 1254262035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or @. < 1254262038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ would be a great email address if valid < 1254262045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1254262048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From: Elliott Hird <@> < 1254262052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Organization: ICANN < 1254262053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even possible to give the route domain an MX? < 1254262055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*root domain < 1254262076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dig .` outputs an SOA record and nothing else < 1254262080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure what SOA is < 1254262085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, considering that it gives \ < 1254262092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/gives \\$/gives/ < 1254262093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. 1447 IN SOA A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. NSTLD.VERISIGN-GRS.COM. 2009092900 1800 900 604800 86400 < 1254262098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can almost certainly add things to it < 1254262135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOA is "start-of-authority", but I don't see why you couldn't put other records there too. < 1254262164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... if . is a separator, then surely . cannot be the absolute root domain < 1254262168 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With -t any it also gives 13 NS records. < 1254262168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, it's empty . empty < 1254262176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what'st he empty after it? :D < 1254262263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, obviously it has the name server records. < 1254262278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what's the < 1254262284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: http:// should be a valid website < 1254262290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, better in gopher < 1254262295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "foo" generally stands for "foo.". < 1254262295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ dig -t any "" < 1254262295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dig: '' is not a legal name (unexpected end of input) < 1254262295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1254262361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's what I meant. < 1254262374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. is a separator, right? < 1254262381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the components of foo. are ["foo",""] < 1254262391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In conclusion: . isn't the absolute root domain; it's ["",""]. < 1254262393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1254262436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the massive politics surrounding adding an MX record to the root domain for personal use would be ridiculously huge, and you want to put an A record in there?! < 1254262446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or AAAA, or CNAME, whatever < 1254262460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it would be funny if it looked like one of those Windows help-on-first-run screens < 1254262463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Welcome to the Internet!" < 1254262475 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing after @ is either dot-atom or domain-literal. dot-atom expands to dot-atom-text. dot-atom-text expands to atext+ ('.' atext+). To get one character, one is left with atext and that can't expand to '.'. So dot-atom can't expand to '.'. This leaves domain-literal, but those are enclosed in '[]'. The stuff in middle is dcontent. Dcontent -> dtext and dtext includes '.' < 1254262496 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it would need to be in form '@[.]' < 1254262518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or, since it's at the end of every domain, one of those "you have reached the end of the internet" pages < 1254262529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be more like the start < 1254262612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean "blah.com" is actually written "blah.com." in DNS messages and zone files and so on, so the . is a bit of a not-really-just-a-label-separator there too. < 1254262612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's at the end of every domain! < 1254262633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, fizzie. < 1254262659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: sucks < 1254262665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, @[.] is a pretty awesome email < 1254262668 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Is 'foo@example.net' the same as 'foo@[example.net]'? < 1254262746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite. < 1254262751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not take into account MX records. < 1254262764 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254262765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the domain-literal form, the domain is interpreted as the literal Internet address of the particular host." < 1254262767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do instead? < 1254262778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't have an email in the root domain < 1254262779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254262793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So sending to foo@[example.net] will not look for example.net's mail servers; it'll look for any A records for example.net, and send mail there. < 1254262825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1254262828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you gave . an A record < 1254262828 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ways domain mail receive capability can appear in DNS records: 1) MX record. 2) SRV record on SMTP 3) A record. 4) AAAA record. < 1254262831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have @[.] < 1254262881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, /this/ is why we need an A record for the root domain < 1254262920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure that's a good reason :D < 1254262924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254262925 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254262931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it's a bad reason, which is the reason why it's a good idea < 1254263012 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. ac. has freaking A record! < 1254263051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ac/ < 1254263052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1254263059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ac./ is different though, huh < 1254263072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my browser goes to ac.com from that, which is parked < 1254263094 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that root servers don't report it... Hmm... < 1254263116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has a legal disclaimer TXT record. < 1254263121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ac descriptive text "The AC zone file is protected under national and international law as a database compilation." < 1254263121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ac descriptive text "Access to the .AC Zone File information does not in itself convey any rights to any party to use, store, manipulate, such information without the explicit written consent of ICB plc, P.O.Box 4040 Christchurch, BH23 1XW, UK." < 1254263125 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But their authoritative NS does. < 1254263134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't store the results? < 1254263144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, why should the root servers know anything else then NS records for 'ac'? < 1254263145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have added "cache" < 1254263167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like .com nameservers would know what's the A record for example.com either. < 1254263198 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :af. has A record as well. ai. has MX and A! < 1254263199 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-127-161.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254263200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who owns example.com, btw? < 1254263207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably someone's responsible for maintaining it < 1254263212 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANA < 1254263222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1254263223 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC... < 1254263256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Domain Name: EXAMPLE.COM < 1254263256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Registrar: RESERVED-INTERNET ASSIGNED NUMBERS AUTHORITY < 1254263277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANA IIRC OTOH IANAL BTW YHBT YHL HAND < 1254263320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be great if IANA stood for "I am not a" < 1254263322 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, AI. NS reports the MX record too... < 1254263322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example.com will expire in 13-aug-2011; would be nice if they'd manage not to renew it. (But unlikely, since it's listed like so that they are the registrar, not just a regular owner.) < 1254263346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as. also has an MX record. < 1254263370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best of all would be if the root domain got parked < 1254263377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but surely people will remember to renew that? < 1254263383 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently E-Mail addresses directly under TLDs are not just urban legends.... < 1254263396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tm. has an A record too. < 1254263405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also SPF txt record. < 1254263496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't exactly register . :P < 1254263498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I told you that < 1254263503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n@ai or i@an or similar < 1254263505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget whicj < 1254263507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*which < 1254263532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a web server in the "tm." address, but I can't get my Firefox to go there, it just goes to www.tm.com even if I type the full "http://tm/". < 1254263538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's the chance at least one registrar will give you the chance to monitor . so as to be notified when its registration expires? < 1254263563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :67% < 1254263564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1254263645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254263770 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254263771 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: At least links2 could work (http://example complains about host not found). < 1254264021 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If its one of those two, it must be n@ai since an. isn't mail-capable. < 1254264247 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254264420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back. < 1254264426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yeah, I think it was n@ai < 1254264559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wait, so person A always lies on opposite day if person B, who always not tells the untruth, reveals a goat behind door 2 and person A says they will unswitch the complex conjugate of their answer because person C always tells a clown joke when person A tells the opposite of the unlie, right?" < 1254264568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what i want to know is, was it a _friendly_ n@ai? < 1254264576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1254264588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sounds like an esolang < 1254264683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, it was their mother < 1254264716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254264850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the doctor, unless there was an untruth i missed < 1254264967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1254264977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but what i want to know is, was it a _friendly_ n@ai?" is what i mean < 1254264980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joke on ai? < 1254265023 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask oerjan that in -60 seconds from now < 1254265043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, just retroactively edit one of your previous posts < 1254265059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why do you keep referencing internet forums, it makes me sad because they all suck < 1254265082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1254265089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254265109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, which one do I reference < 1254265116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not which one sucks < 1254265124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"forums" < 1254265127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general < 1254265135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like editing posts, topic locking, etc :P < 1254265174 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing's wrong with that kind of humour < 1254265185 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the forums discussion, though < 1254265193 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stickys the topic < 1254265199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because IRC has a sufficient lack of equivalents that I had to use a slightly warped analogy < 1254265223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, but it's upsetting because editing posts is the worst thing ever dreamt of :P < 1254265228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the IRC equivalent to stickying would be setting a join message in ChanServ, or changing the topic < 1254265235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it depends on the forum < 1254265246 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the topic is already always on the top < 1254265248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over on mag-heut it works pretty well, but that's because of the way mag-heut works < 1254265254 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess unstickying would be harder < 1254265262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conversation is linear, reading is linear, it's so easily abused, and it encourages not thinking before you post < 1254265287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, unless it's correcting a typo, it'll inevitably lead to confusion with regards to the following posts; and does that typo REALLY matter so much? < 1254265417 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254265827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254266813 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254267738 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254269214 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254269978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1254270253 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254270878 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254270925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1254271386 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254271701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254271701 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254271714 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254271932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/172774/dell_adds_wireless_battery_charging_to_new_laptop.html < 1254272476 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254272496 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is brewing up his second ETA program (long), still only does simple text output, heh (trying to be poetic) < 1254272524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popt < 1254272538 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254272542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1254272569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid Sgeo project of the day: Translate the Haskell Prelude into Python < 1254272591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: impossible. < 1254272595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only via greenspunning. < 1254272599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as much as possible < 1254272606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the useless, trivial functions? < 1254272611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the ones Python already has? < 1254272619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python has foldr? < 1254272627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254272629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called reduce. < 1254272646 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254272653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure whether it's foldl/foldr but outside of Haskell that rarely matters.) < 1254272695 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I don't see how useless/useful matters. I'm not trying to make anything useful. < 1254272699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just bored < 1254272750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By useless, I mean things as pointless as (what will turn into) succ x = x+1. < 1254272763 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, if you're bored, take a look at ETA < 1254272769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest is either impossible without basically implementing Haskell in Python, or is already in Python. < 1254272780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing such a pointless thing can't possibly relieve any boredom... < 1254272782 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/tech/eta/doc/index.html < 1254272786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: have you played with bf joust? < 1254272794 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254272801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might like it < 1254272812 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still wants to finish his ETA proggie ... < 1254272828 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many N's :-P < 1254272841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ETA? < 1254272844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust; we use egojoust) < 1254272863 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya, ETA < 1254272865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I came up with the two modifications to ais523's rules to make it fairer, nyah :P < 1254272870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, linky? < 1254272918 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above < 1254272918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he linked. < 1254272942 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/tech/eta/doc/index.html < 1254272973 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's eight instructions, also doubling as numbers, and it's not a Brainf*** clone < 1254272981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ETAOINSH" < 1254272988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite goofy ;-) < 1254273244 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I download XEmacs or GNU Emacs? < 1254273248 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU < 1254273252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither. < 1254273267 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of updates lately, 23.1 was just released like two months ago, internal Unicode now < 1254273272 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254273275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But XEmacs; both because of jwz and since it sucks more, you'll be less likely to bug us about using it since you'll give up. < 1254273299 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwz? < 1254273305 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jamie Zawinski < 1254273305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1254273314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, last I recall it *doesn't* include the GNU Manifesto, which is a huge plus. < 1254273359 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird's just convinced me to go with GNU < 1254273372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless "it sucks more" was sarcastic? < 1254273377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, updates++ < 1254273383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations, you get to use the editor equivalent of something that sucks. < 1254273393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there significant keybinding differences? < 1254273396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not supply the mandatory rusty fork for your eyeballs. < 1254273396 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just try it and see < 1254273407 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter, you can rebind it ;-) < 1254273414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, too lazy < 1254273428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I think the best Emacs variant is vim, since you're determined to learn one or the other through whatever deluded ideas from idiots with beards passed through your head. < 1254273438 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even different versions of GNU differ on a few keycodes < 1254273440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up, I am *not* cynical and bitter. < 1254273460 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :viper ftw! ;-) < 1254273464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does nano have SQL syntax hilighting? < 1254273469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop imagining me with wispy grey hair drinking wiskey and slamming keys into a Model M. I AM NOT THAT PERSON. < 1254273475 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea (but it does support hilighting now) < 1254273488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, he goes straight from XEmacs to nano. A veritable bonanza of suck. < 1254273496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whiskey, also. < 1254273504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm currently using nano for school < 1254273508 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Nano ain't exactly in the same league, unless you just want a very simple editor < 1254273521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be all yay, minimalism but nano is kinda poor. < 1254273539 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you on Linux i presume? < 1254273542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Man up and install GVim, it's more elegant and you get to have buttons to click if that's your thing. < 1254273544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Windows. < 1254273558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have to connect to the school's Linux computer through SSH < 1254273562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because he has some sort of crack-esque addiction to games that don't run in a VM, and dual-booting takes like 5 years, from what I gather. < 1254273567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Using an editor over ssh? < 1254273568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Niice. < 1254273571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lag will be delicious. < 1254273575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Emacs isn't an option. < 1254273575 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try TDE (DOS or Win32), it can be compiled for Linux too w/ Ncurses dev: < 1254273579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over SSH it's piss-poor. < 1254273581 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://adoxa.110mb.com < 1254273593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it works quite well, when I was trying it < 1254273600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really doesn't. < 1254273656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, what a tough choice. ehird, who I usually believe, or my own personal experience. < 1254273666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwahaha. < 1254273670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will toy with your pony mind. < 1254273672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254273673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puny. < 1254273676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, also pony I guess. < 1254273689 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.texteditors.org (if you want options) < 1254273713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just go ahead and spoil that every text editor sucks really, really badly. < 1254273720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except perhaps acme. < 1254273726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which merely sucks. < 1254273734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rabble rabble rabble. < 1254273771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1254273772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254273784 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.67.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254273785 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is in GNU Emacs right now, BTW, using ERC < 1254273809 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet I'm also using TDE (my typical favorite editor by habit) < 1254273890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, 80/2phi ~= 25, so 80x24 is quite close to an appealing size. < 1254273929 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet that's what most people hate about Befunge93 < 1254273939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is sort of limiting. < 1254273939 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks VIC-20 programmers should feel at home, heh < 1254273963 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worse than no fork(), file I/O, random stack access, etc. :-) < 1254273967 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but simplicity is a virtue < 1254273980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that GVim's toolbar is worse than useless. < 1254273990 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true, Emacs is probably too much of everything (same with Nethack), but hey, they're good enough < 1254274002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta wonder why they bother. < 1254274039 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worse than a toolbar in Emacs (heh) < 1254274046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is also terrible. < 1254274052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the Emacs menus are the real sin. < 1254274120 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually thought the whole "using a free software vi isn't a sin but merely a penance" was funny ;-) < 1254274143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should just declare a hiatus from sanity and use some fucked-up crazy fun weird-ass editor like http://software.jessies.org/evergreen/ and just blind everyone with my superior unconventionality < 1254274165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it does Haskell. < 1254274169 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIM is good too, just there doesn't have to be only "one true editor (tm)" < 1254274230 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, try TDE, it's quite nice < 1254274238 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not overkill at all < 1254274244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it has ncurses menus. < 1254274251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ncurses-similar. < 1254274253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of thing. < 1254274257 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses Ncurses only on Linux < 1254274268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has menus, right. < 1254274280 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, menus (which you don't have to use, has keyboard shortcuts too) < 1254274295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it means it'll be a typical DOS Borland-style program. :P < 1254274314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the closest Unix-based analog of that type of program is JED. < 1254274317 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, it's better than typical Borland stuff < 1254274319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jedsoft.org/jed/ < 1254274322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unix-originating that is) < 1254274325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried JED, it's very good < 1254274327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I mean in UI design < 1254274349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jedsoft.org/images/jed1.png is just a funny image. < 1254274351 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, I could be wrong, don't know the history, but I *think* texteditors.org says TDE is a IBM E clone (or similar) < 1254274368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have this graphical environment, not unbelievably awful, with a program that emulates an ancient CRT terminal from way back including control code.s < 1254274381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*codes. < 1254274394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a modern GUI-based program, showhorned to use these control codes to draw ugly, low-resolution widgets with terrible mouse support. < 1254274406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... people prefer this over using the damn upper GUI layer... why? < 1254274413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses is just so bizarre. < 1254274416 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI is teh overrated < 1254274425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'm saying, look at http://www.jedsoft.org/images/jed1.png < 1254274426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a GUI < 1254274437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care if it uses a |_ character instead of pushing pixels < 1254274438 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TUI < 1254274448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a GUI on an antiquated display with terrible input mechanisms < 1254274469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no difference in the actual UI at all from a GUI, and the actual program merely integrates with the environment worse, looks uglier, and has inferior mouse support < 1254274483 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JED has very good mouse support, better than most < 1254274496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My other points stand. < 1254274498 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think looks matter much (at least, not to me) < 1254274506 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it works, good! < 1254274543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the point is that it has no ADVANTAGES, only a crazy insanity of layers upon 70s-originating layers emulating the present, and that is simply bizarre. < 1254274576 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everything should be X-only? (I hope not!) < 1254274656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Justify that. Justify how a JED-style GUI (don't say it's not a GUI, those are graphical widgets it's drawing, onto a low-resolution, low-colour display built entirely out of an emulation of 70s constructs) is any better than an X GUI. Why are these layers better? What do we gain over not requiring X, other than satisfying people who prefer the crazy 70s-based crippled ncurses graphical layer over the 80s-based at-least-slightly-modern X11? < 1254274661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. < 1254274691 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not requiring X means you don't need X installed, don't need a suitable graphics driver, etc. < 1254274702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you running X at the moment? < 1254274711 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Windows ;-) < 1254274766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 90% of linux desktops run X, and the rest are crazy irrational oboes^Whobos. < 1254274769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a framebuffer you can run X for chrissakes < 1254274772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having X installed - uh < 1254274777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need ncurses installed for ncurses programs < 1254274778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same damn thing < 1254274788 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you link statically ;-) < 1254274793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two GUI layers, one crippled and based on ancient technology, one not the first and the latter has been patche dup < 1254274795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*patched up < 1254274802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could include X with your program too, and it'd be just as stupid < 1254274813 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot bigger :-P < 1254274824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah, like a whole 100 megs. < 1254274836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a suitable graphics driver, as i said, anything that can run a framebuffer can run X, and anything that can't run a framebuffer is going to be quite painful < 1254274907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1254274909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's buy norway < 1254274973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with bf joust warriors < 1254275000 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still hacking away at the ETA program / prose < 1254275208 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION probably went about this the wrong way < 1254275223 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254275786 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if anybody wants to even read this sucker when done :-/ < 1254275825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not :P < 1254275888 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a pastebin I can post my WIP at? < 1254275895 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'mon, humor me! ;-) < 1254275934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, pastebin.ca or something < 1254275980 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now here's the "backstory" so you understand it ;-)) < 1254275981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.osnews.com/comments/22225 < 1254276024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :de icaza is a wonderful name for someone to call a traitor < 1254276026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so spanish piratey < 1254276080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts Evergreen. OH GOD JAVA TEXT RENDERING MAKE IT STOP MAKE IT STOOOOOOOOOP < 1254276088 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1585217 < 1254276096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck fuck OW my EYES < 1254276104 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't even know how to pronounce it < 1254276115 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always read either Ikaza or Izaka :-P < 1254276140 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seriously? :-P < 1254276148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1254276160 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is meant to be a valid ETA program, but all it really does it print a silly joke < 1254276176 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can tell, some words ain't fleshed out yet < 1254276189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive < 1254276201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, but goofy? heck yes! :-D < 1254276384 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically prints this (hope this isn't considered flooding): < 1254276398 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u no steal rms code < 1254276405 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u share code else rms get mad < 1254276410 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u no like rms angry < 1254276417 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rms now go eat fungal toe < 1254276450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im...pressive. < 1254276458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't talk to me about silly jokes < 1254276460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1254276482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries using IcedTea (and thus GNU Classpath) instead of the java jvm for font rendering < 1254276501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus: Appears to predate their awful subpixel crap < 1254276503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus: Free < 1254276514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downside: Still ugly < 1254276540 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ?? < 1254276554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M I C < 1254276557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K E Y < 1254276563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to finish < 1254276572 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your point? < 1254276575 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confused < 1254276579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird knows < 1254276580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore Sgeo, he's on crack. < 1254276588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: This is good life advice always.) < 1254276595 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or worse ... fungal toe! :-D < 1254276616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, wrong starting < 1254276618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/impl/psox/db_utils.py < 1254276619 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore ehird, he's ehird. Also good life advice. < 1254276625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is like my sidekick that I just abuse and never helps me with anything and I just, like, solve the case and get all the chicks and then stomp on his head a bit for good measure and he keeps running around like a doofus < 1254276629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that < 1254276636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh burn. < 1254276639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go cut myself now. < 1254276747 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254276768 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254277949 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still seeing the same Vista bugs, so it's (badly) ironic that 7 is coming out soon < 1254278271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1254278413 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is dumb, what is a NAT? < 1254278464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network Address Translation < 1254278494 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several computers behind one router. When a computer makes a request, it's sent using the router's IP. Thus, the individual computers don't have individual IP addresses < 1254278524 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The router routes the results of requests properly, but without forwarding, inbound requests make no sense, as there's no IP to request from < 1254278533 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I say "your NAT murders OE", does it even almost make sense? < 1254278539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's OE? < 1254278545 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outlook Express :-) < 1254278545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a server, it makes sense < 1254278551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably some protocol that doesn't work over a NAT. < 1254278561 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything should murder Outlook. < 1254278565 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still working on the Fungal Toe ETA program < 1254278575 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be the goal of everyone to murder Outlook and all software like it. < 1254278589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Evolution considered Outlook-like? < 1254278607 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The property being compared is terriblocity. < 1254278639 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides PSOX < 1254279173 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254279179 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254280249 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated but still not quite done < 1254280250 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1585289 < 1254280345 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-236-142-247.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1254281107 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Download IceChat at www.icechat.net" < 1254281931 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm basically done < 1254281946 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could still be cleaned up a bit, made to look better, rhyme better, make more sense, etc. < 1254281956 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's more-or-less done :-) < 1254282000 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1585307 < 1254282037 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone please read it ;-) < 1254283353 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254284506 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated yet again < 1254284511 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be more readable (hopefully) < 1254284512 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1585356 < 1254284808 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.S. I guess I should license this under GPLv3, just to be extra hilarious ;-) < 1254285991 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last one for the night < 1254285993 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1585395 < 1254285999 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye! ;-) < 1254286000 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254286401 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1254286603 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254291394 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-193-77.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254291476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad lag spikes this week < 1254291617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254291623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1254293944 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now reminded of an awesome shirt I saw last weekend: "Reality is for people who can't handle √-1̅ < 1254293969 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that combining overline fails < 1254294041 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254294091 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1254294903 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254297222 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254297599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254297600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254298349 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254299037 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: stupid < 1254299592 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254299690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : joke on ai? <-- you need joke explanations now? sad, sad. < 1254300228 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@86.156.98.47 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254301260 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254302453 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254303368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254303385 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254303478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254304728 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@p5B136532.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254307723 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254309231 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254310950 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254313868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254317892 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1254317994 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1254320437 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254320441 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254320452 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254321501 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254323391 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254324628 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84.217.6.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254326988 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.115.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254327118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:43:09 Is Evolution considered Outlook-like? < 1254327118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254327124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution is awful, awful, awful and should not be part of GNOME at all. < 1254327152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restarting xchat. < 1254327153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1254327166 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.115.10 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254327173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-gnome < 1254327992 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Evolution is awful, awful, awful < 1254328010 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does HackBot keep wandering off of FreeNOde... < 1254328055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's called Freenode < 1254328067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's freenode, but it's definitely not FreeNode or FreeNOde. < 1254328482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am evil!- and, I have prongs! < 1254328486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1254328486 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! you are crono. why not? then you should leave quickly! < 1254328503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: can that sword stop alone? < 1254328503 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a machine that looks like you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have the masamune! < 1254328510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not helpful, fungot < 1254328510 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! < 1254328519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fungot < 1254328522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1254328799 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net" < 1254328826 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.104.224.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254328947 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers biting the bullet and putting all the shit in ~/.cabal < 1254328949 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have I become. < 1254328954 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a traitor to my own package manager. < 1254328989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, hi there. You used windows 7 right? < 1254329003 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1254329041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to install windows 7 pro x64 (aquired through MSDNAA) in virtualbox but it always claim disk drivers are missing. Tried all the three IDE controller settings, SATA and both SCSI settings < 1254329044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea what to do? < 1254329057 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows 7 pro doesn't exist. < 1254329063 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it actually < 1254329081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, hm sec, laptop booting and I will give you the full product name in a minute or so < 1254329082 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, no idea; use something that isn't virtualbox < 1254329087 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: home premium? < 1254329090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just home) < 1254329098 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1254329101 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254329102 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just got home < 1254329106 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just Home (presumably Basic) < 1254329108 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1254329109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254329110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1254329112 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1254329113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :home from uni < 1254329115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254329119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so laptop is turned off < 1254329120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that home < 1254329144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, right, resuming from suspend to disk < 1254329155 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolinux < 1254329235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 Professional (x64) RTM - DVD (English).iso < 1254329254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, sure, a figment of MSDNAA's imagination I bet < 1254329280 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's new. < 1254329285 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1254329285 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Compare < 1254329285 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Starter < 1254329285 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Home Premium < 1254329285 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Professional < 1254329286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254329288 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Home Premium / Pro / Ultimate are the three editions to the best of my knowledge < 1254329288 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Ultimate" < 1254329302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Professional <-- indeed < 1254329302 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 will be available in six different editions, but only Home Premium and Professional will be available for retail sale in most countries < 1254329303 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Starter. < 1254329319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, the ultimate one wasn't available on MSDNAA < 1254329323 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Professional is universally better than Home Starter, so that's fine. < 1254329338 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Subsystem for Unix-based Applications, though. Hah! < 1254329339 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no "Home Starter" < 1254329347 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Un...lucky you? < 1254329347 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1254329348 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant Home Premium < 1254329352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, well pro was the only one available in fact. There were like 15 entries in the menu for SQL server though < 1254329388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, anyway RTM... that means release? or pre-release? < 1254329392 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, VirtualBox can't do Aero IIRC, or at least not very well, and e.g. Windows 7's taskbardockthingy is kinda crippled without it, so I'm not sure why you're bothering with VirtualBox. < 1254329396 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Release To Manufacturer. < 1254329398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought windows 7 wasn't available yet < 1254329403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1254329414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they release it for MSDNAA earlier < 1254329421 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They release it to manufacturers earlier. < 1254329440 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone pirating it is using RTM, anyway. < 1254329446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case... any idea about the driver issue? < 1254329460 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you ignored the two lines in question. < 1254329466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, um which ones? < 1254329474 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two ones mentioning VirtualBox. < 1254329488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, no idea; use something that isn't virtualbox < 1254329490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one < 1254329491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254329494 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two. < 1254329496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is the areo one < 1254329507 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; commonly refer to one and a one as two. < 1254329508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, anyway what else than virtualbox is there? Xen? < 1254329512 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*we commonly < 1254329520 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Xen isn't actually a proper VM... < 1254329526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1254329532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu would be hellish slow < 1254329536 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMWare? < 1254329566 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not sure they have a trial as opposed to the useless VMWare Player thing. < 1254329567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, vmware server 2 is a piece of crap. and for 1.x bitrot has ensured the kernel module no longer compiles against recent kernels < 1254329584 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a piece of crap but it might be a working piece of crap. Also, I'm referring to Workstation. < 1254329591 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is available for Linux. < 1254329604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, would need to pirate it though. Which wasn't in my plans for today. < 1254329628 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then... just make a partition and install it to disk? < 1254329687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... hm < 1254329721 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *would* have to use IE for a few seconds, though. < 1254329731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, I don't think shrinking an encrypted partition is easy at all < 1254329745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does windows 7 boot from a usb harddrive? < 1254329746 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plug in a USB drive or something. < 1254329748 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snap. < 1254329749 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1254329755 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't be fast, though. < 1254329759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then I just have to find one < 1254329809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, windows 7 installer *also* refuses to say what exact piece of hardware is missing a driver < 1254329821 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254329845 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254329942 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~$ find /usr/bin/ -name \*enigma\* < 1254329944 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did it go. < 1254329957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, /usr/games < 1254329957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1254329963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1254329966 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1254329994 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh lol, I think it was starting enigma from ~/NIH/enigma/, presumably my previous cwd. < 1254330001 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never actually installed the package < 1254330011 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selecting previously deselected package enigma-svn. < 1254330011 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Reading database ... 15% < 1254330047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/NIH/ :D < 1254330052 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. :P < 1254330069 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254330078 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1254330085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254330089 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1254330101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, AFAICT standard data types such as ints and strings must a) exist, and b) use duck typing < 1254330109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut] < 1254330111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wut < 1254330117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean fedda < 1254330117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1254330117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254330129 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.224.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254330133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a great concept < 1254330142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I miss anything < 1254330144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254330158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoying GNOME inconsistency: you can't cancel a drag from the menus (adding a shortcut to the desktop or a panel) with ESC. You have to leave go and remove it manually. < 1254330186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1254330200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue is that the input program needs to be represented somehow < 1254330208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's opaque, all Feather programs will need to be quines < 1254330218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a ridiculous restriction to put on such an unrestricted language < 1254330229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, not true quines, but able to generate a copy of their own source on demand) < 1254330241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be great, ais523 < 1254330243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254330246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add that as part of the language < 1254330254 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254330256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every object responds to "your source", so to speak < 1254330259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that isn't the issue < 1254330261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm found it maybe < 1254330265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, what format do you get it in? < 1254330268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: strings exist < 1254330279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1254330295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1254330300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254330306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: you can interpret some things as srtings < 1254330307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*strings < 1254330309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings are an illusion < 1254330310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't imply any data types < 1254330312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1254330316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, even Forth has types < 1254330318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ridiculous < 1254330326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, strings are something that the user's likely to want to define at some point < 1254330334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at that point, we want the program to also be that sort of string < 1254330344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what lead me to the conclusion that standard data types use duck typing < 1254330346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, string theory is just mathematical masturbation < 1254330389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how on earth do you do VI#89? < 1254330404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1254330418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually done that one < 1254330423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which bit are you stuck on? the first bit? < 1254330432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves strategically placed items to block the lasers < 1254330436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the spade, but then can't enter the path to V < 1254330439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(downwards) < 1254330441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the laser gets me < 1254330444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that you start with a couple of extralives in your inventory < 1254330463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick's to block the laser with the spade (which is even harder then getting the spade in the first place) < 1254330476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in such a way that you can get past the downwards laser too < 1254330485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting the spade is easy, just wait until the laser goes and then shoot downwards < 1254330497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before just now, when I figured that out, I was trying to hit the metal switch stones while the lasers were off - try THAT for impossible) < 1254330582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it wouldn't help, I don't think < 1254330598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, pidgin is so crashy < 1254330601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but empathy is moreso :( < 1254330711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( linux sound < 1254330723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it < 1254330795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks < 1254330803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what stack < 1254330807 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1254330813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean what stack are you using < 1254330822 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find one that works < 1254330833 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulseaudio in particular is rather bad right now < 1254330845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your hardware sucks :P < 1254330847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use ossv4 or something < 1254330864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there numpad support in enigma? < 1254330875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for what? movement? < 1254330881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1254330882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, planned but not implemented < 1254330888 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, you misunderstand what I want < 1254330896 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want a sound stack that makes all applications have sound < 1254330899 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should NOT be hard < 1254330905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use ossv4 or something. < 1254330913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stop whining, if you buy unsupported hardware guess what, it doesn't work < 1254330938 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is linux; all hardware is unsupported < 1254330947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's not true, stop trolling < 1254330980 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: fine then. Tell me how to set this up < 1254330986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254331033 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1254331042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then, pay me and i will < 1254331078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uhh, sudo apt-get purge pulseaudio alsa-*; sudo apt-get autoremove --purge; find_and_install_ossv4_package < 1254331086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just use pulseaudio + alsa and it works fine. < 1254331093 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but pulse hates me < 1254331099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might be lagged; I can't tell < 1254331112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just went through the options on the sound menu until I found one that worked < 1254331115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, IIRC they all work < 1254331120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSA, OSS /and/ PulseAudio < 1254331124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this system, at least < 1254331130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because pulseaudio talks to alsa and oss is just alsa's oss wrapper. < 1254331134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done that; the hardware works fine, but not through pulse < 1254331142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprise! three things work if they're all the same < 1254331168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: iwc :D < 1254331182 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you test ALSA? < 1254331210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, mhm < 1254331217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmgtfy.com < 1254331221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if they're all the same, why is there a choice? < 1254331228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google test ALSA < 1254331236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because pulseaudio is an additional layer over ALSA, and so can do more, < 1254331238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... what have I messed up here? < 1254331242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, HackEgo isn't here < 1254331243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because ALSA exposes its OSS interface as, you know, OSS < 1254331245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it shows up as... OSS. < 1254331249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254331263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OSS in question is v3, which sucks ass < 1254331268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "A required CD/DVD drive device driver is missing. If you have a floppy disk, CD, DVD or USB flash driver, please insert it now." <-- I get that in virtualbox, and I get it when trying to boot the actual computer with the cd too < 1254331273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes that is *after* I select install < 1254331279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v4 apparently has sloppy code and could never get into the kernel, but apparently works excellently and with really tiny latency < 1254331286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think it is saying that there is no device driver for the CD *drive* < 1254331286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right? < 1254331296 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it let more than one application at once use sound? < 1254331297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1254331302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you serious < 1254331303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even OSS does that < 1254331310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've gotta be trolling < 1254331318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not over here it doesn't! < 1254331329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any idea? < 1254331332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop buying unsupported hardware. < 1254331335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "don't know" < 1254331342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that was aimed at me ok < 1254331352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use not-virtualbox :P < 1254331368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're using the closed source virtualbox right < 1254331387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes indeed. But the same message happened on the real hardware! < 1254331391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1254331408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can't get any ball to get onto the lines in VIII#43... < 1254331415 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: some applications can run concurrently. But others refuse to < 1254331420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1254331437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can do 1 on that level, but nor more < 1254331447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect there's a trick but don't know what it is < 1254331449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not more < 1254331457 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254331466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also all the disks are listed in the "browse for driver" in virtualbox (formatted the virtual c: drive from inside virtual win xp to check if it was that that was broken) < 1254331473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm completely clueless < 1254331480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make a partition < 1254331483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let it partition it itself < 1254331488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried that first < 1254331504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, VIII#42 is just evil < 1254331520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it in easy < 1254331527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in hard, though, just wow < 1254331536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set your mouseforce up to 15 on negative-friction levels, by the way < 1254331537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on mouse speed 1... < 1254331540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254331541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254331554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll need it to resist < 1254331684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIII#55 what < 1254331727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is there a button to update the scores instead ofj ustb eing auto? < 1254331729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of equally what levels < 1254331729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of just being < 1254331734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I don't think so < 1254331746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, disincentives to upload scores too often < 1254331757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's illmind operating the score download server :) < 1254331785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you kidding, that's like 1,000 numbers < 1254331794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could never afford the bandwidth < 1254331926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mad Data, with the permission of Dongleware, has produced an official Freeware game with the name "Oxyd extra v2.0" (see external links below). < 1254331932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder when we'll see that in Enigma :P < 1254332440 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254332662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads someone on reddit call the > quoting syntax a "fancy hack" and using the literal character | instead, and when people point out that that breaks horribly on wrapping lines tells them to resize their browser to be huge < 1254332664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the internet < 1254332807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as good as aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa to cause line wrapping < 1254332840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a site emulating table width="100%" with a long sentence coloured as the background congratulating you for finding the secret. < 1254332855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FINO works by withholding all scheduled tasks permanently. No matter how many tasks are scheduled at any time, no task ever actually takes place. This makes FINO extremely simple to implement" --Wikipedia < 1254332888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally < 1254332891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int32 is_computer_on(void) < 1254332892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Returns 1 if the computer is on. If the computer isn't on, the value returned by this function is undefined. < 1254332892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double is_computer_on_fire(void) < 1254332892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Returns the temperature of the motherboard if the computer is currently on fire. If the computer isn't on fire, the function returns some other value. < 1254332894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--BeOS < 1254333312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "FINO works by withholding all scheduled tasks permanently. No matter how many tasks are scheduled at any time, no task ever actually takes place. This makes FINO extremely simple to implement" --Wikipedia <-- a joke? On wikipedia? < 1254333324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *did* omit the ending of that last sentence... < 1254333341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely: < 1254333353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :", but useless in practice." < 1254333438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and those "is_computer_on" and "is_computer_on_fire" are really in BeOS? ^_Å < 1254333440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^* < 1254333488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254333498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in some class. < 1254333561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone just asked me what chatroom I was in < 1254333564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I pointed to the logs of this place < 1254333570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear. < 1254333580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what the effect will be < 1254333591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the firewall on the desktops here blocks port 6667 outbound, so likely nothing we'll notice < 1254333616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, beyond the barrier of beingbotheredness compared to the typical difficulty) < 1254333622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSNAA provides MS-DOS too it seems < 1254333623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1254333628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unlikely that anyone who calls it a chatroom will be able to access IRC. < 1254333628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two versions: < 1254333643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.0 and 6.22 < 1254333645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you pretty much have free range over MSNAA or something? < 1254333650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a script to download all of it < 1254333676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can only install any once and have to install them while you are still studying. Oh and I don't have enough disk space < 1254333680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all < 1254333685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean MSDNAA? < 1254333692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh yeah < 1254333708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory I can access it here, but I've never tried < 1254333714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only install them once? < 1254333714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a crock of shit < 1254333716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, most of what they do isn't compatible with Linux < 1254333716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray for piracy < 1254333731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway here is the list: < 1254333747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1586321 < 1254333752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copied from "view source" < 1254333767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however a bit strange because office isn't supposed to be part of this < 1254333778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how shocking, everything but the OSs are worthless. < 1254333780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that isn't actually office < 1254333796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are various office addons it seems < 1254333807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about: < 1254333816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254333821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interix sucks, probably < 1254333845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well first I want to get that win7 pro rtm to actually install < 1254333853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it doesn't even on actual hardware... < 1254333880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, visual studio isn't that useless. I mean, SQL server is way more useless < 1254333913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fair enough < 1254333923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OSs, visual studio and maybe Interix < 1254333930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :visual studio is allegedly quite good for development in Microsoft languages < 1254333933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fast are the downloads? < 1254333934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've hardly used it < 1254334051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maxed out connection at home (820 KB/s or so), widly varying at uni (everything from 200 bytes/s to 1.5 MB/s) < 1254334098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :820 KiB maxes out that university connection? < 1254334102 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-98-47.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254334104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, read again < 1254334107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at home* < 1254334109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1254334113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid brain. < 1254334122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and 1.5 MB/s doesn't nearly max out uni connection at all < 1254334126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though that is wlan < 1254334139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The uni will be able to get at least 12.5MiB/s. < 1254334142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was even within view of base station < 1254334172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a bit less, I managed 8 mbps off peek hours over the wlan < 1254334180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nowhere near that at peak hours < 1254334181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, mbps = megabits. < 1254334194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's ~1MiB/s. < 1254334195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, correct. And it is 11g < 1254334203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err, no < 1254334204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a bit less, it's about 10x less. < 1254334206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant MBps < 1254334207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mbps < 1254334224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is MiB in your notation even < 1254334242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't what you said (and that's megabytes, i.e. decimal, i.e. 7.62MiB anyway). < 1254334246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not my notation; the standard notation. < 1254334263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I refuse to use MiB when I mean base 1024 < 1254334266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b is a bit, B is a byte, SI prefixes (except possibly for kiB or KiB) followed by i = binary. < 1254334267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to live with it < 1254334279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and as I said the b was a typo < 1254334290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to that it should have been millibyte per second < 1254334292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you could be consistent while being contrarian. < 1254334296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was small m < 1254334320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I see you never heard of typos < 1254334351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem awfully selective about your standards; POSIX is mandatory and unit standards are ignorable. Are we going to start seeing selective application of POSIX selections, or is it atomic at the standard level? Fun and arbitrariness. < 1254334367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw windows xp pro 64-bit installs just fine so it isn't a 64-bit issue in general it seems < 1254334403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, EFI is a standard too. And you can't argue that is good < 1254334448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but there is an alternative to EFI; BIOS. < 1254334456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, openfirmware < 1254334469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with EFI? < 1254334480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just curious, not claiming it's necessarily good < 1254334483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I could just start talking in Lojban and that'd be perfectly valid too. But when we're talking in English, using differing units just to spite the other party is hostile and makes you a jerk. < 1254334495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "what if we used a full OS... to boot the OS?" < 1254334501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1254334506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"with drivers and command shells and a kernel and applications!!! YAAAAY" < 1254334546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254334550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the arguments in favour of it I've seen is that BIOS isn't designed for anything but keyboards, screens, floppy drives, parallel ports, and serial ports < 1254334566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very true. On the other hand, EFI is shit. < 1254334588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is a good alternative though: open firmware < 1254334600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you actually used OpenFirmware? < 1254334609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the forth is fun but configuring it is a huge bitch < 1254334615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not easy to diagnose problems < 1254334621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun, but not practical < 1254334686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, keyserver.ubuntu.com is slow enough that gpg times out < 1254334832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it finally worked. < 1254334834 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254335097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First few seconds impressions of Chromium on Linux: It still draws its own window border. Ow, my eyes. Hey, it looks like they fixed the font rendering... but... it looks kinda different to normal. What why are they drawing their own scrollbars WHAT IS THE POINT OF THAT < 1254335118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254335119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1254335140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft healthcare? Sounds like a superb idea! < 1254335146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you think of Chrome Frame < 1254335148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : have you actually used OpenFirmware? <-- yes I have. On a PPC mac < 1254335150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1254335157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you don't use it a lot normally there < 1254335159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's a cute hack. < 1254335166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, well, it Just Works there. < 1254335180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even EFI is great if it's working. < 1254335219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More impressions: The Greyscale theme hurts my eyes less than that awful blue. Hey, can I get rid of that home button? Yes. Yes I can. < 1254335236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use system title bar and borders" Yay. < 1254335249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that just makes it look like Opera with its custom tab bar, really. :P < 1254335273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make it use the GTK theme's colours and icons. That would be nice, but it makes the background of the tab bar be dark brown... < 1254335275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, screenshot of the custom title bar and such. And screenshot of it now < 1254335287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean, screenshot of it now? < 1254335288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, strange theme there :P < 1254335297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, when it " Oh, that just makes it look like Opera with its custom tab bar, really. :P" < 1254335321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's just the window border followed by the custom widgets on a tab bar that make me think of Opera, really. < 1254335323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and a black background. < 1254335352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, system colours + drawing its own title bar will probably work best; the brown tab bar looks fine if it's blended in with the window title like on Windows. < 1254335361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I haven't used opera for years. When I think of opera I still see the version after they made it freeware < 1254335382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cafesurvey.com/static/images/browsers/opera10_linux.png < 1254335385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the tab bar. < 1254335392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254335400 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the current tab bar < 1254335401 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly enough < 1254335404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1254335404 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes that one more < 1254335406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's close enough. < 1254335413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the colours there doesn't really fit < 1254335420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't < 1254335421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plural. < 1254335429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the text hinting in Chromium has some real fuckedupness going on. < 1254335442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Finalising installation" "Saving settings". ETA: 8 minutes < 1254335442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254335444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Letters are detaching from their pals to high-five their unsavory neighbours. < 1254335450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is win xp pro x64) < 1254335454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the ETA for the total installation < 1254335526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but it has already been "saving settings" for over 4 minutes < 1254335535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still is < 1254335562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably frozen. < 1254335572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, harddrive working a lot < 1254335577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does count down < 1254335581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saving settings all the time < 1254335586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 minutes now < 1254335589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saving settings < 1254335604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 minutes and saving settings < 1254335616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, Chromium? Chromium? Why are you drawing our own form widgets. I guess that explains the scrollbar. Stop that. < 1254335628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*your own form < 1254335665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should try the 32-bit win 7 pro... it might work better. Maybe < 1254335681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least based on googling on the issue I hit < 1254335686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably the best idea; there aren't such a wide variety of 64-bit drivers. < 1254335696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: any idea why people /don't/ use native widgets? < 1254335699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, no applications are 64-bit, pretty much, so everything will go in C:\Program Files (x86) anyway. < 1254335708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done in almost everything < 1254335710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because what are the native widgets on linux? < 1254335712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except DNA Maze, for some weird reason < 1254335714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QT of course < 1254335716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, Chromium does it on Windows for quite a good reason. < 1254335717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! GTK < 1254335720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It uses gtk, so invalid argument, stfu. < 1254335732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Linux, the native widgets depend on your DE < 1254335733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it uses GTK *and* draws it's own? < 1254335736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that is strange < 1254335749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it draws it is own. < 1254335763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw there is a QT theme to use GTK and iirc a GTK theme to use QT < 1254335768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone tried both at once? < 1254335780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them has a saveguard against that. < 1254335782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*safeguard < 1254335786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how boring < 1254335813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could disable it and then try < 1254335822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder when and why it was added, though? < 1254335824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd just draw blank. < 1254335829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, because someone tried it? :P < 1254335837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have been in GTK from the start, but if not, someone must have tried it < 1254335838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, too lazy < 1254335843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let's do GTK and Athena at the same time < 1254335864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not in gtk < 1254335867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in qgtkstyle or whatever < 1254335887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? No need to activate this windows install? *blink* < 1254335897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it bugs you later. < 1254335905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :activation happens after install in Windows < 1254335905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will disable after n days < 1254335908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, guess so < 1254335910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can only install one xp copy so many times < 1254335913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that is what I thought too < 1254335915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1254335916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're allowed to use it for 30 days without activationm IIRC < 1254335919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*activation, < 1254335921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun downloading an activator < 1254335937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if it's MSDNAA, you could get the activation code pretty easily < 1254335938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I never installed this copy before < 1254335939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although only the once < 1254335949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it is MSDNAA < 1254335981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah now it bugged me < 1254335996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just iirc it always did it before login before < 1254336102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, no way I'm using Chromium as my main browser. < 1254336114 0 :deschutron!n=alex@115.166.37.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254336124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION deschutes deschutron < 1254336125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOW < 1254336140 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am deschuted < 1254336150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verily < 1254336158 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was coming to eavesdrop on some conversation < 1254336172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's illegal, sir < 1254336172 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i am wondering, < 1254336185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop < 1254336191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what it is < 1254336191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all wonder about irrigation sometimes, deschutron. < 1254336192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1254336197 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote an interactive shell in one of my variants of SNUSP < 1254336203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we just have to get along, you know, and try not to think about irrigation too much, you understand? < 1254336212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, are you new here or? < 1254336220 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i'm new here < 1254336232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he may have been here once, twice or 5746583465 times here before, pick one < 1254336237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that isn't nice to a new user < 1254336244 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5746583465 < 1254336248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, talking about irrigation? i'm so sorry < 1254336255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: i didn't mean to upset your virgin ears :( < 1254336278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he's been here before. < 1254336292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1254336293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, SNUSP < 1254336301 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i wrote a neat program in an esoteric language. i'd like to show it off < 1254336305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1254336307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here is a good place < 1254336308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely forbidden! < 1254336313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when ehird and AnMaster stop bickering, at least < 1254336316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we must fight to the death,. < 1254336321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this place could do with being on-topic some of the time at least < 1254336323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with commas and full stops,. < 1254336325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably all of it < 1254336336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd just be boring < 1254336339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254336343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254336343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm here because I find esolangs interesting < 1254336365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a thing called community and it pretty much requires offtopicity. < 1254336380 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and irrigation < 1254336384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :artificially censoring the channel to one topic helps nobody, it's just antagonistic; the fact is that esolangs move slowly < 1254336393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if someone wants to talk about esolangs we're not exactly going to stop them < 1254336394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't want an artifical censor < 1254336405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what being on topic is; conversation flows < 1254336405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer a /natural/ censor, as in people talked about esolangs because they're a good subject < 1254336410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I was talking about Feather earlier < 1254336412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but was mostly ignored < 1254336419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I had nothing to say < 1254336423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was interesting < 1254336424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because thinking about Feather drives everyone mad, I suppose < 1254336429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't have many comments < 1254336436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I should be able to get a reference interp out relatively soon now I hope < 1254336444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which /would/ be progress < 1254336448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the thing, there isn't enough happening in esolangs to talk about it all the time, and the only way we can have fun esolang discussions is having a community, so... < 1254336459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I still think it's a non-concept < 1254336461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really implementing anything of the language beyond a bare-bones ability to retroactively change the interp < 1254336464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is all you need, of course < 1254336465 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's Feather? < 1254336471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: you seriously did not want to ask that < 1254336476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: an unreleased esolang of mine < 1254336483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressing for more details is liable to cause madness < 1254336484 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254336492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as /I/ go mad thinking about it, and I invented it < 1254336494 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead < 1254336499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1254336502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1254336507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: nice knowing you < 1254336516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically an attempt to make a decent prototype-based proper OO programming language < 1254336532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it involves retroactive changes to things < 1254336535 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1254336537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to do inheritance, originally < 1254336542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then generalised out into other thins < 1254336544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so going to try google chrome in the virtualbox < 1254336544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1254336551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of bloated firefox < 1254336561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another alternative would have been opera I guess < 1254336563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: good idea, but note that the title bar on XP and vista/7 without aero is kinda ugly < 1254336565 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Feather actually _exists_? < 1254336566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all blue < 1254336574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is xp x64 < 1254336576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea is, instead of delegation or anything like that, you simply change all the child objects at the time they were created < 1254336579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: not exactly < 1254336580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right, it's just a bit ugly < 1254336581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea exists < 1254336586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of it's perfect though < 1254336587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as I go mad thinking about it, and nobody else really knows what I mean < 1254336591 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, exists as in the idea is actually serious < 1254336592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't an interp or anything like that yet < 1254336592 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1254336597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some notes somewhere, but they're wrong < 1254336598 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was an ongoing joke to talk about it < 1254336608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254336608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cursed be widescreen laptops indeed. < 1254336613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: from ehird's point of view, it is, I don't think he thinks I'm serious < 1254336614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: whut < 1254336620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as I said, I go mad thinking about it, so maybe I'm not < 1254336624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do, I'm just skeptical that the idea can exist, per se < 1254336632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like, it's trying to feel every part of a klein bottle in a 3d world < 1254336632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, virtualbox window hight < chrome window height. < 1254336636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can project it onto the 3d world in various ways < 1254336637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I can resize it < 1254336640 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by a retroactive change? < 1254336640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can never capture every aspect like that < 1254336641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is some bad defaults < 1254336642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your madness < 1254336647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is becausey ou'er thinking of different projections < 1254336649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*because you're < 1254336651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're inconsistent < 1254336652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1254336659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, feather cannot be expressed < 1254336662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: basically, you calculate what state the program would be in if the change had been made at some earlier point in time < 1254336665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's inconsistent in our universe < 1254336667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then change the program state to that < 1254336686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it possible to express paradoxes in feather? < 1254336689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, the operation needed to do this almost already exists, it's a trivial variant of call/cc, and can easily be implemented in terms of it < 1254336693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like killing your own grand-interpreter? < 1254336693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, they cause infinite loops < 1254336701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you get what I mean about non-concept? < 1254336702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, that isn't a true two-way paradox < 1254336712 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you ever written/tried to express something of this online? < 1254336718 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, a .txt document or something < 1254336722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: sort-of, I pasted some notes on pastebin.ca ages ago < 1254336728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, though, they're wrong < 1254336734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so I don't know if they're useful or harmful < 1254336744 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1254336755 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a feather program can change the prior state abject it was cloned from, and then all the effects of that change are calculated and applied to the machine's state? < 1254336770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: pretty much < 1254336772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, chrome sure lacks some options. Like "ask about every cookie" < 1254336776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is ignoring me because i'm crazy :) < 1254336780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, because that's infeasible < 1254336785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because every site uses like 5 cookies < 1254336788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've used that setting before now < 1254336794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you just click "remember for site" < 1254336795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1254336801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox manages it well < 1254336813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Chrome also sends a bunch of details to Google by default and updates in the background, so if you're crazy and paranoid why are you using it? < 1254336831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to use that Iron fork thing to avoid that < 1254336835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it isn't like I'll use that vm for a lot < 1254336841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why are you bothered < 1254336864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because I was evaluating it for possible usage elsewhere < 1254336882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's only any good on windows and i don't imagine you use many windows machines... < 1254336899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true. < 1254336945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about antivirus for 64-bit windows? < 1254336961 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about anti-MINDvirus? < 1254336968 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry :< < 1254336973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just use a 32-bit one? I'm pretty sure they work < 1254336974 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your feather idea sounds interesting, though i don't know whether it provides any convenience at all < 1254336976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, use a 64-bit one < 1254336980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: I doubt it does < 1254336991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NOD32 is fine if you don't mind pirating, otherwise use the new one Microsoft released which I think is Vista/7 only < 1254336992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to provide an incredible amount of power, at the cost of going mad trying to write it < 1254336993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AVG is crap < 1254337000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, antivirus tends to use drivers to hook in to low level < 1254337004 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if an object kills its grandfather < 1254337004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I doubt a 32-bit one would work < 1254337008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1254337010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine then < 1254337019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: it doesn't exist in the new timeline < 1254337027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The built-in Windows firewall is fine < 1254337027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timelines only have to be consistent in one direction < 1254337028 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie wipes the memory of its grabdfather object at a time before its parent was made < 1254337041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, actions in deleted parts of timelines can affect the current ones < 1254337046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mostly, though, you don't get random viruses nowadays < 1254337049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not with SP3 < 1254337063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this avoids the grandfather paradox neatly, although not certain other sorts of paradoxes < 1254337071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's basically no known ways to run some code without running something vaguely executable yourself < 1254337072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heck this is sp1... installing upgrades atm < 1254337073 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, like back to the future 2 < 1254337103 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then some results of the change are carried forward, but some are not, right> < 1254337125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all changes are carried forwards < 1254337130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that wipes out the source of the change, so be it < 1254337158 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have two separate objects A and B < 1254337159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the major issues in actual programming (which I've thought about, but not tried) is to ensure that changing things that happened early on don't completely destroy the logic of your program < 1254337171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, of course, you're doing that deliberately, but why would you? < 1254337176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, two objects are fine < 1254337206 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and A wipes B's grandparent before B is made. < 1254337212 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does B cease to exist? < 1254337219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254337224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what happens if you make true haven-alwaysbeen false? < 1254337225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that timeline, it never existed in the first place < 1254337225 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if A = B? < 1254337234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the interpreter just explode infinitely and give up? < 1254337241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: same thing, no paradox under Feather's rules < 1254337254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: anything that actually depended on them being different would probably retroactively break < 1254337265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading to something hard to distinguish from undefined behaviour < 1254337268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like, say, the original interpreter < 1254337271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254337279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which interprets itself, and so BOOM? < 1254337295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not exactly BOOM, the resulting code would do /something/ < 1254337300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be unlikely to be useful, though < 1254337308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just see what true become: false does in Smalltalk < 1254337318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can't; you can't interpret the original interpreter if true is false < 1254337323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be pretty similar, retroactivity doesn't make that any more of a disaster than it is imperatively < 1254337340 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then if an object kills its grandfather, its future actions are nullified, but its past ones are not < 1254337347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: yes, that's it < 1254337358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... can time be removed from Feather? < 1254337363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, yes, so it would probably break before (in that timeline) the program ever got to run < 1254337370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, ther is no progression of time, everything has to be done retroactively < 1254337373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1254337373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: possibly; it depends on what you mean by that < 1254337375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of thing < 1254337386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is immutable in Feather < 1254337386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, isn't the mechanism of advancing in the program redundant if you can manipulate time retroactively? < 1254337390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, it is in lambda calculus too < 1254337417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I see what you're saying; I think that's the Feather equivalent of a trampoline, or something like taht < 1254337419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1254337425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1254337442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand what I'm proposing, but then I don't understand Feather either < 1254337453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I < 1254337465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems like having everything work retroactively on a single point of unchanging non-time is way more elegant than ugly time and its progression < 1254337469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm getting a grasp on how it works simply by observations about what couldn't work, and what I can't find a contradiction in < 1254337606 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: consider these two cases: < 1254337606 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A has a variable x; x = 0; A sets x's initial value to 10; x = 10 < 1254337606 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A has a variable x; x = 0; A sets 0 to x + 1; x = 1; A sets x's initial value to 10; x = 1 < 1254337650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what do you mean by "x = 0" here? < 1254337658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't change the current values of things, only the initial values < 1254337669 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1254337721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAH < 1254337734 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it should be interesting < 1254337735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know why the ISO doesn't work "error reading" for lots of files on it < 1254337746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically broken download < 1254337766 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Jerry < 1254337767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1254337801 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1254337813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and microsoft even made you download an *.exe supposed to download the whole thing < 1254337846 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an alternative solution to the grandfather paradox is that the environment detects it and throws an exception, which the program uses as part of its control flow < 1254337879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more programs need to have a ui like darcs. i think. < 1254337896 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have programs deliberately causing paradoxes, just to cause the effects they need to operate. if blocks could be implemented with paradoxes < 1254337900 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is that MSDNAA? I had to download visual studio 4 times... the downloader is awful < 1254337918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: well, pretty much every change to the language is a paradox in a way < 1254337927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that the program that caused it means something else in the new language < 1254337942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that gets ehird mad is the concept of retroactively changing things in the interpreter itself < 1254337947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a generalisation of the same concept, really < 1254337960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad? < 1254337962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you have to do is box it (make it able to change retroactively), and give a copy of it to the program < 1254337964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like crazy or upset < 1254337971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, thinking it won't work < 1254337978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's not true < 1254337988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've never said either of those things < 1254338001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are plenty of things that won't work; I think Feather is more than simply not-working < 1254338007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if we have willWork(p) < 1254338008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok < 1254338012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say I think ~willWork(feather) < 1254338020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I think you can't even give "feather" a value < 1254338034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., it's inexpressable in the logic of our universe, and maybe we need a more flexible universe with better logic to have Feather < 1254338038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely serious about it < 1254338040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1254338044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would explain the insanity < 1254338048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: is that MSDNAA? I had to download visual studio 4 times... the downloader is awful <-- yes it is < 1254338069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, and that will be a bit painful for windows 7 pro... < 1254338070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a brilliant method for dealing with the apparent causality paradoxen, I think < 1254338072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtm too < 1254338076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't feel up to explaining it right now < 1254338091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck the downloader even said "Checking CRC" < 1254338096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so complete and utter fail < 1254338099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failure* < 1254338113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want crc to be reliable on a multi-jiggabyte file? < 1254338124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I want it to use something saner < 1254338136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, md5 < 1254338137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRC's excellent at detecting accidental errors < 1254338145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it isn't good at detecting deliberate ones < 1254338163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it failed in this case. the iso is cut short at 3 GB and it should be something closer to twice that I think < 1254338174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the CRC match? < 1254338180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er, no < 1254338184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no? < 1254338190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVDs can only do about 4GB normally or thereabouts < 1254338196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Windows 7 doesn't, afaik, require a dual-layer DVD < 1254338200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I know it doesn't for a fact < 1254338214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does dual side, dual layer even exist? < 1254338216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the burning tool I used told me I could use a single-layer when I gave it a dual-layer to write to < 1254338224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual layer dvds are like 9GB < 1254338224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok. < 1254338233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes because 4+4=9 < 1254338234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1254338250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 3.9GB, I think < 1254338251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for single-layers < 1254338258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1254338260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to check < 1254338269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so dual would be slightly less than 8? < 1254338287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD%2BR_DL < 1254338291 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried downloading it from a friend, but I apparently used some version of wget that looped around to -2.1GB when it reached 2GB, and then crashed. < 1254338298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.7GB single layer < 1254338309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, maybe I should download MSDO 6.0 from MSDNAA? < 1254338311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.4GB DL < 1254338318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't mean double layer < 1254338321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant double side < 1254338322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1254338322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1254338324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"~17.08 GB (rare—double-sided, double-layer)" < 1254338326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want < 1254338336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, don't want < 1254338340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but would be fun. < 1254338345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^it after but < 1254338361 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea < 1254338382 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can imagine this situation: < 1254338383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc they are/were tricky to manufacture < 1254338391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, issues getting them flat when gluing all the layers together < 1254338394 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A != B. A changes B's past, B's previous behaviour changes, A reads from B and prints to screen. A changes B's past again, B's previous behaviour changes, A reads from B again. B is effectively a method. no paradoxes occur here either < 1254338397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was years ago I read that though < 1254338405 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d906c0@gateway/web/freenode/x-jdnejwgsejtgvzjv JOIN :#esoteric < 1254338406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could do with a non-flat dvd < 1254338410 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A changes A's past. A becomes undefined. An exception is thrown. A's creator receives it and reacts to it. < 1254338417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I'd totally love an orb storage mechanism < 1254338418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a cube < 1254338424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: that sort of thing seems reasonable < 1254338425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a tray in front of the monitor < 1254338425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. As decoration. Doesn't actually work in a computer though < 1254338425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if rather confusing < 1254338428 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let A's creator = C, and look back in time to before A existed. < 1254338428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you throw it in < 1254338430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it shoots it into the reader < 1254338430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, get DVD-RAM instead ;P < 1254338438 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C creates A to do some stuff for it. C waits for a paradox exception. C recieves and knows that A has done its work. C performs its next task. < 1254338440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worryingly, I think you probably /have/ to program in that sort of way, and that's what makes Feather an esolang < 1254338446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get the beautifully-decorated album orb from the shelf < 1254338450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw it into the monitor's tray < 1254338453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THWWWWPT < 1254338454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, you wouldn't exactly get a paradox exception < 1254338456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sucked in and starts reading < 1254338459 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is undefined whether A did anything, but the output cannot be undone. C has successfully manipulated time to its own ends. The user's experience is as if they are travelling in a Tardis. < 1254338463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just find that the object you just created nevertheless no longer exists < 1254338467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be a giveaway < 1254338471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the orb storage will be short-lived, after everyone gets fed up with fetching them after they roll away < 1254338497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :D < 1254338517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well I'm fed up with cds/dvds falling on floor and being hard to pick up < 1254338526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1254338532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am slightly worried by the fact AnMaster seems to get my jokes best these days < 1254338538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: have you seen the TRDS extension to Befunge? < 1254338545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not unlike Feather, in a way < 1254338547 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254338548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just doesn't go nearly as far < 1254338558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it lets you preserve and rewind state < 1254338562 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i might have just found a possible line between what is undone and what isn't < 1254338568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant here understands it well enough to have writen a testsuite < 1254338570 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard output < 1254338571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well < 1254338575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think cubes would be better than orbs < 1254338586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those'd be less fun to decorate < 1254338589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: I/O is a real pain in Feather, for this sort of reason < 1254338601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to get the rest of the language done first and then see if there's a natural way to do I/O < 1254338604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sqrt(-garfield) was really funny today IMO < 1254338610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it isn't all that important computationally < 1254338633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254338634 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254338651 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have it such that each object has two methods of communication: one convenient one like functions or direct manipulation, and one other like writing to standard out < 1254338652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but those'd be less fun to decorate [your xmas tree with] < 1254338661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, "logging off" in windows is WAY from the center < 1254338668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like at the right side < 1254338675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's the design < 1254338680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: well, the language is called Feather because the language itself is bare-bones < 1254338681 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actions in the convenient are undone by changes to previous states < 1254338682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, in the login screen, to the left is "welcome" < 1254338690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to the right (where that logging off text is) is the users < 1254338694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're meant to use standardish headers, etc, to create the language features you want at runtime < 1254338696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? I tend to use classical login yeah < 1254338699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe I missed it < 1254338713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing is the sort of thing that would be perfect to go in a library < 1254338714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the XP-style login is ugly but convenient; click type enter beats type type type tab type enter < 1254338721 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output to the second channel is preserved as whatever it was when it was written < 1254338732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you forgot ctrl-alt-del before login < 1254338736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO Feather should be made in a way so that you can add any OS interaction you want, somehow < 1254338738 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the user only receives info if it passes through the second channel < 1254338742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err, why? < 1254338747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, classical-stle < 1254338749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :style < 1254338755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: the real challenge with output is actually to not reprint it every time you get a change < 1254338758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you have to on the xp computers at uni at least < 1254338761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why < 1254338761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the timeline < 1254338763 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's do it classical-style baby < 1254338767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, security maybe < 1254338770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classical login just reminds me of NT. < 1254338778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could just store an output pointer in an object, together with the output, and reprint only if it changes < 1254338781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, NT wasn't that bad. ;P < 1254338790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck yes it was < 1254338803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's a Linux equivalent of control-alt-del before login too, but it's more interesting < 1254338822 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have it such that when the actions of the past are recalculated, the standard out calls that should have happened are not executed < 1254338826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, relative windows 3.1 I mean < 1254338831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-(SysRq,K) terminates all programs but the login screen < 1254338836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you know after pressing it that you're at a real login screen, not a fake one < 1254338848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nt was pretty much identical to 3.1 at first, then much shittier than 95 < 1254338848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it DIED < 1254338850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: or executed and ignored, probably easier in practice < 1254338864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"easier in practice" < 1254338865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"feather" < 1254338867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suck < 1254338895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Alt-(SysRq,K) terminates all programs but the login screen <-- eh? On windows? < 1254338897 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254338900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, on Linux < 1254338903 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean no bytes get sent to standard out, but all variable changes still occur < 1254338907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the kernel level, so usermode programs can't fool it < 1254338912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron: yes, exactly < 1254338914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and no it doesn't. It kills even getty but getty respawns < 1254338915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1254338921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ofc < 1254338925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything but init, then < 1254338931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as init's responsible for the respawning < 1254338933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, only current terminal < 1254338942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better < 1254338949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a bit black humor, i think < 1254338952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it doesn't work very well on gdm < 1254338958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh? < 1254338972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, sqrt(-garfield) was really funny today IMO < 1254338976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there ought to be a tool for a program designed to be a tool for programming and maintaining, but isn't just an "editor" of text files, and isn't a big bloated IDE because it uses other tools to do the work < 1254338981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh that. was ages ago < 1254338992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"programmer" would work, but is sorta taken. :P < 1254339002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, thought you were making some bad pun on "kill getty", "terminal", "black" < 1254339004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i netsplat < 1254339011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be even below your level < 1254339036 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are you familiar with SNUSP? < 1254339046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, I'm not. Short summary? < 1254339050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of it, but not much < 1254339076 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 2D brainfuck variant, inspired by PATH, and better than PATH < 1254339082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254339084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you said "yay snusp" before :P < 1254339099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it doesn't get enough love < 1254339100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, whatever the term is, I think I'm going to make one of them with a UI sort of like darcs. < 1254339159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snuggle up to snusp < 1254339176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :muggles snuggle to snusp < 1254339207 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had the idea to add a fork instruction to it < 1254339230 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the parent and the child are automatically piped to each other < 1254339281 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think that would be in keeping with the spirit of the language? < 1254339336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Bloated SNUSP, definitely < 1254339340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it already exists in that < 1254339363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it would still be in keeping with the spirit, just redundant < 1254339375 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloated SNUSP has an instruction to create new threads < 1254339421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloated brainfuck basically? :D < 1254339423 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new thread shares memory with the original, and the two then takes turns to execute instructions < 1254339433 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloated 2d brainfuck < 1254339446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deschutron, yes but the idea of bloating brainfuck seems so backwards < 1254339486 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does, it destroys the minimalism < 1254339518 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but snusp offers something other than pure minimalism. it offers a chance to visually see algorithms < 1254339577 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instructions are very orthogonal, and the program's memory structure is simple, so there is something nice about it < 1254339600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Brainfork is pretty elegant as a language < 1254339606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck + threading < 1254339623 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a variant called Brainfork < 1254339629 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why "take turns" as opposed to true concurrency? < 1254339644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :predictability, I presume < 1254339646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn-taking is easier to implement for the person writing the compiler/interp < 1254339647 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1254339648 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and boring < 1254339649 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the way bloated snusp's threading was designed < 1254339656 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it's not < 1254339659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: you can't really do a lock in brainfuck in the proper way < 1254339663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why exactly is the driver called "Microsoft TCP/IP version 6". And the IPv4 one is just "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)" < 1254339674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: who cares < 1254339678 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why not? < 1254339678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is because < 1254339679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you /can/ do a lock in INTERCAL in the proper way < 1254339689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it indicates that it isn't compatible with the standard one < 1254339697 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: use an empty memory cell, increment it while your'e busy, then decrement < 1254339697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semaphores, mutexes, all those primitives are easily implemented in terms of INTERCAL's more powerful primitives < 1254339700 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i came up with a different way of multithreading for snusp < 1254339705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it doesn't < 1254339708 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is based on the fork() function in unix < 1254339709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lame and boring <-- agreed < 1254339713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was trying to joke about it < 1254339719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't funny < 1254339724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure was < 1254339765 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254339817 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, a snusp program can only communicate via stdin and stdout. < 1254339823 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if when you created a new thread, it could only communicate with other threads through stdin and stdout? < 1254339955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so lets see.. 1) sp 2 2) more upgrades 3) more upgrades, still no sight of sp3 < 1254339958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between each a reboot < 1254339966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there will be a reboot after batch 3 < 1254339976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft: WHY? < 1254340107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaand now ie 8 sigh < 1254340118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie 6 was quite a nostalgia trip :D < 1254340119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1254340335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this sound interesting: < 1254340372 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=second+squared+per+second <-- W|A gives bogus output? < 1254340385 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The box with the 2 in it doesn't look... good < 1254340401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" To see full output you need to enable Javascript in your browser " <-- err "any output" might be more accurate < 1254340454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090927151401988 < 1254340454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1254340458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The box with the 2 in it doesn't look... good <-- how should it look instead of (s^2)/s < 1254340461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That stung. < 1254340463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you read GrokLaw? < 1254340473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uh < 1254340474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{2[[1]], Comparison as <>PhysicalLookup(2[[1]], PhysicalQuantitySingularName), CalculateScan`UnitScanner`Private`KnownMUnitToQuantityComparison(2, {CalculateUnits`UnitTable`MUnit(1, Unit(First[{}]))})[[CalculateScan`UnitScanner`Private`KnownMUnitToQuantityComparison(2, {CalculateUnits`UnitTable`MUnit(1, Unit(First[{}]))})]]}: < 1254340480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but reddit does < 1254340480 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that ^ < 1254340488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: uh <-- uh about what? < 1254340495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... < 1254340496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, AnMaster. < 1254340498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, doesn't look like that here < 1254340502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like s^2/s < 1254340505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1254340508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooooooooool < 1254340512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster has no scrollbar < 1254340516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his screen is tiny < 1254340517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1254340521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um I do < 1254340524 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or no JS < 1254340525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want a screenshot? < 1254340526 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something < 1254340528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly not, or you would have scrolled down < 1254340531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, enabled JS in firefox < 1254340534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I scrolled down < 1254340536 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the box below Unit system < 1254340541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that reminds me of the bit about Silverlight being ported to Moblin < 1254340548 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is below Input interpretation < 1254340549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is weird; I don't get why they aren't using Moonlight < 1254340551 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what you quoted < 1254340561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless Microsoft want two competing Silverlight impls on Linux? < 1254340612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a rather stupid idea < 1254340620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu/kFreeBSD or Ubuntu/kHURd < 1254340622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*HURD < 1254340655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's Debian GNU/BSD < 1254340656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Nexenta < 1254340665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Debian/k{FreeBSD,HURD} exist < 1254340678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be hard, just take debian's kernel and base packages and add them to a fork of ubuntu's repo < 1254340685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nexenta is Ubuntu/kOpenSolaris, IIRC < 1254340689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then remove the linux packages, tweak the installed base package < 1254340692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rebuild EVERYTHING < 1254340693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and voila < 1254340735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't need to rebuild things that weren't linking against the kernel or libc, and had no OS-dependent code < 1254340738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there have to be some < 1254340744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, FireFly: what on: http://omploader.org/vMmdlMA < 1254340761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me where the bad stuff is there < 1254340771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: note the loading bar. < 1254340780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it never finishes < 1254340783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just stays there < 1254340787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that point < 1254340796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even after refresh < 1254340796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then refresh. < 1254340799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then fail. < 1254340816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what petname is < 1254340826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what? NetHack? < 1254340833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see the "unauthicated" at the top? < 1254340836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only mentioning that because it's pretty similar to a NetHack option name) < 1254340839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it remembers ssl certs < 1254340839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that screenshot, pay attention < 1254340847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uh, what < 1254340849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I don't follow links < 1254340855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I find it hard to think of them as context < 1254340861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then stop asking people when they talk about them < 1254340862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so when I go to my internet bank it verifies the fingerprint is the same. And displays that. < 1254340866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I'm paranoid < 1254340869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your personal hangup about clicking links is unique < 1254340876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets me out of trouble < 1254340876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: firefox does that. < 1254340882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way has fewer rickrolls < 1254340884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um, only that cert is valid < 1254340884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so does /ignore * < 1254340890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not that it is the same as you stored < 1254340893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it impairs conversation just the same < 1254340896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't change and someone faked it < 1254340898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not in recent versions < 1254340913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm? I had that extension since 3.0 at least < 1254340923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in 3.5, I think < 1254340936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is firefox 3.0.14 you are looking at < 1254340938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jaunty remember < 1254340940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT karmic < 1254340946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a 3.5 package in jaunty. < 1254340968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but it is universe or something, not officially supported it says < 1254340980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so're most things < 1254340986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you noticed that there is no official ubuntu support? < 1254340990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you count expensive telephone calls < 1254340998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc, forums ... none of that is official < 1254341069 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254341086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1254341166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there is, but you have to pay for it < 1254341179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unless you count" < 1254341181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why there'd be official unpaid support if there's official paid suport < 1254341185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you ignoring random lines as well as links? < 1254341185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, I do count that < 1254341191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and nobody uses it < 1254341193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that's exactly what the official support is < 1254341196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/CSopO.jpg, outside reddit offices < 1254341199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm relatively sure some people do < 1254341214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I bought this computer, Dell offered me bundled paid support for Ubuntu if I wanted it < 1254341222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I declined, but there are some people who might accept < 1254341241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and companies would want to accept even more; after all, RHEL is (still) a success in the business world < 1254341248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the same principle there < 1254341329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy australian mailman reminders day, btw < 1254341351 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1254341365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is "microsoft update" so much slower for the "checking for updates" step than "windows update" < 1254341366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254341424 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-159-108-51.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254341437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure there is sp 3 for x64 too? < 1254341440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Microsoft is bigger than Windows? < 1254341448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no such thing is listed < 1254341456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well no other MS software installed atm < 1254341468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1254341475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? You have Windows bundled with nothing at all? < 1254341487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure standard Windows installs have more than bare bones < 1254341506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? well there is IE, but that was updated by windows update too < 1254341539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this is newly installed windows xp pro x64 < 1254341557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does it come with things like Notepad/ < 1254341566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is part of windows... < 1254341568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that Notepad would likely need much updating...) < 1254341573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and is updated by windows update < 1254341576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wordpad too < 1254341579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok < 1254341602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, microsoft update updates office and other such "non-bundled" apps. But none of those are installed < 1254341617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's installing them so it has something to update < 1254341633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254341677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus I fail to see why it would take any longer than apt-get update followed by the upgrade part that checks for upgrades < 1254341682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck it should take less < 1254341692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there are fewer packages, just updates < 1254341709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a text file with last hotpatch level in would be enough < 1254342389 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-86-123.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254342830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacj < 1254342830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1254342836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, sure there is sp 3 for x64 too? < 1254342839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh of course < 1254342840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bach < 1254342868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, odd then that it isn't listed hm < 1254342873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, plus I fail to see why it would take any longer than apt-get update followed by the upgrade part that checks for upgrades < 1254342879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware checking, software checking < 1254342881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for compatibility etc < 1254342890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whether the upgrade is required for this software set < 1254342894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hardware set < 1254342910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shouldn't take that long, and you could cache results and such < 1254343048 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1254343068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1254343072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop imp-bombing #esoteri < 1254343074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*#estoeric < 1254343079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**#esoteric < 1254343108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov.i #-1,-1 < 1254343115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spl -1 < 1254343117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, that'll do < 1254343138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming an IP ends up in my code before impomatic's < 1254343159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but imps are hillarious < 1254343256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when they overwrite the logs < 1254343313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, my mouse keeps losing connection < 1254343316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better replace the batteries < 1254343344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched to a wired mouse for that reason < 1254343374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've lasted for at least a month < 1254343445 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wireless mouse with rechargable batteries <3 < 1254343463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have to charge them. < 1254343464 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And charger where you put the mouse when you leave the computer < 1254343476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only works if you leave the computer :D < 1254343484 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but I sleep < 1254343484 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254343488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht < 1254343489 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to other people here :) < 1254343534 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-156-199-0.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254343586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious, I opened shut down dialog to restart XP for upgrade. and after I click ok the "there are uninstalled upgrades, reboot now/later" dialog pops up < 1254343601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be promptly killed by the shutting down process a few seconds later < 1254343613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's so hilarious. Could never happen in Linux or anything. < 1254343626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it *could*, but I never seen it happen < 1254343650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what exactly *are* .msc < 1254343657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thingies. < 1254343681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you create one? < 1254343699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Addition to the management console in Windows. If the MMC fails to complete a normal shut down, the SMS.MSC file may be removed from the system. As a result, the shortcut is not found when the Systems Management Server Administrator console is started. See the added into link below for a solution. Note: This file type can become infected and should be carefully scanned if someone sends you a file with this extension. < 1254343712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"management console", I guess. < 1254343721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, addon to. < 1254343736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254343765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know that they are "management console" files. I was wondering more like "are they *.dlls basically that are loaded into msc.exe or what"? < 1254343783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the defrag GUI is an example of a *.msc < 1254343786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1254343790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an *.msc < 1254343801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you pronounce * "star". < 1254343819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, run file(1) on one and see. < 1254343836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to pronounce it at all < 1254343845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An em ess cee". < 1254343847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a word actually has no pronunciation, do you use "a" or "an" before it? < 1254343863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind reads the *. as something nonverbal when I'm reading to myself < 1254343868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if you're annoying and pedantic: < 1254343870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An asterisk dot em ess cee". < 1254343870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is weird, as I normally read text as words < 1254343876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or < 1254343881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the others are stupid < 1254343883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/asterisk// < 1254343887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pronounce dot but not the asterisk < 1254343888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also erm < 1254343890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/asterisk/star/ < 1254343891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1254343923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe "a[n] *.msc" is pronounced "an em ess cee file". < 1254343924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254344062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I did verbalise it as "star dot" when I forced it into words < 1254344070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably based on the common verbalisation of the DOS idiom *.* < 1254344131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refer to this place as "esoteric" or, if in a clarifactory (so a word) mood, "the esoteric programming languages channel". Admittedly I don't actually have many chances to mention it IRL. < 1254344148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mostly say "the esoteric... thi*recognition*ng, right" < 1254344164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can use mostly for an occurrence as common as dodos. < 1254344213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unless you pronounce * "star". <-- no, "thingy" < 1254344222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so do you often apply clarifaction? < 1254344242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess clarificatory is a better word. < 1254344266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a clarificent word < 1254344278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "an m"? < 1254344281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clarifficient < 1254344295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When speaking of IRC channels in real life, I use "risu-", which I guess is a bit like "hash-". (Though "risu" is a shortening of the word "risuaita" commonly used in Finnish for that character; literally translated it'd be "stick fence" or "twig fence" or something.) < 1254344299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: m is pronounced em, so yes, an m. < 1254344307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m-s-c = em ess see. < 1254344318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Msc isn't really pronouncable. Musk doesn't count. < 1254344330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can pronounce without vowels < 1254344331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mess, see? < 1254344333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: twig fence esoteric < 1254344333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it isn't easy < 1254344339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can be done < 1254344347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Thus "isn't really pronounceable". < 1254344351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I add in words for a reason, guys. < 1254344357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Maybe I'll start using "twig-" in English; that's bound to be confusing enough. < 1254344382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc ball freenode ball net ... what's /? < 1254344385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spear! < 1254344385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The other day on twig-esoteric, ehird was waggling his eyebrows." (Sorry, I couldn't figure out any more realistic event.) < 1254344401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... what's :? < 1254344415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc ? double-twig irc ball freenode ball net spear twig esoteric < 1254344427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically it should be irc://irc.freenode.net/esoteric without the twig, but eh. < 1254344436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next day, he was haggling his eyeballs < 1254344436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For your convenience: < 1254344439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waggles eyebrows < 1254344440 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254344440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you mean double-spear there. < 1254344445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, yes. < 1254344467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are stairs < 1254344488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> and < are stairs. < 1254344493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254344507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what are :, / and # in Nethack? < 1254344509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :><> ><> < 1254344516 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newt, wand, and wall < 1254344518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first one's newt, isn't it < 1254344518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1254344532 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, all newtlikes < 1254344535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: does . have a name? < 1254344547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just ... ground < 1254344547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gecko and some others < 1254344547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Floor? < 1254344569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: commands, or on the ground? < 1254344576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ground < 1254344576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any of the characters have official Nethack names :-P < 1254344579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as commands: look here, describe glyph, extended command < 1254344594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the ground: reptile (most commonly a newt), wand, and corridor < 1254344599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254344601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254344603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, other things than corridors are possible too for # < 1254344605 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254344606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but corridors are the most common < 1254344607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does . have a name on the ground? :P < 1254344617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: use ; to look at it < 1254344618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll find out < 1254344623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something complicated < 1254344624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have nethack open < 1254344627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, newts are not reptiles < 1254344636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "floor or ice or a drawbridge or ..." < 1254344645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc reptile double-wand irc floor freenode floor net wand corridor esoteric < 1254344646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorry, amphibian < 1254344648 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254344653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc amphibian double-wand irc floor freenode floor net wand corridor esoteric < 1254344656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1254344657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc newt double-wand irc floor freenode floor net wand corridor esoteric < 1254344658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds better < 1254344661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, either in NetHack, it's not all that picky < 1254344667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~$ nethack < 1254344667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program 'nethack' can be found in the following packages: < 1254344667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * nethack-console < 1254344667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * nethack-qt < 1254344667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * nethack-x11 < 1254344668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try: sudo apt-get install < 1254344672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack: command not found < 1254344675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of offended it considers the others acceptable alternatives < 1254344679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want the full list for S_LIZARD: newt, gecko, iguana, baby crocodile, lizard, chameleon, crocodile, salamander. < 1254344682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they're all the console version < 1254344685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 reboots and still not done yet. God-fucking-damn windows update < 1254344688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other two have graphical versions in the same binary < 1254344695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are console by default unless opened via the GUI < 1254344700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nethack-qt's GUI is broken < 1254344709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care, unless the two others have become way better recently it's sacrelidge < 1254344710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you only have one viable alternative for graphical play < 1254344714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sacrilege < 1254344721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how is it broken? < 1254344731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it even uses qt3 < 1254344731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me get a screenshot for you, it'll be obvious from that < 1254344732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE A DINOSAUR < 1254344739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what, no raptors? < 1254344747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does the GTK one look like? < 1254344764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Qt 3's default theme is ugly < 1254344770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: who said it has one? < 1254344781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it used to use athena widgets < 1254344783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1254344785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x11 < 1254344786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not gtk < 1254344788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it became unmaintained for that reason and was dropped < 1254344788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the qt tiles are really ugly < 1254344792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 is also athena, but saner < 1254344793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was so used to qt vs. gtk < 1254344802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I quite like the qt one here < 1254344802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like unreadably < 1254344816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the console one is obviously better < 1254344821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but qt one could be worse < 1254344838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there: http://imgur.com/6jeoK.png < 1254344870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't happen for me < 1254344871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: presumably your version actually works, then < 1254344884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, you installed nethack-qt? < 1254344887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the default font is way to large you have to change it to saner < 1254344887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aargh, why is your applications menu indented? < 1254344889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they actually fixed that problem < 1254344890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that totally breaks fitt's law < 1254344898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's a button in the top-left < 1254344899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your show desktop and trash too < 1254344902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I use more than the menu itself < 1254344907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1254344914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took all the decoration off the button to save space < 1254344918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just looks like a blank space < 1254344919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hides it? < 1254344921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hides the panel < 1254344929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can fit programs into a larger space < 1254344930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I you do indeed have truly anemic screen space. < 1254344934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I // < 1254344936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most commonly I use that for battle for wesnoth) < 1254344937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't get gnome to show the hide panel on only *ONE* side < 1254344947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can with KDE 3 btw < 1254344948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares, both panels are valuable < 1254344972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1254344974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack-x11 < 1254344975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the colours < 1254344976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY EYES < 1254344977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm I have hide ones too < 1254344980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, screenshot < 1254345018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, forgot to start dropbox < 1254345030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of nethack, are they still making Falcon's Eye, or did they replace that with some other project or something? < 1254345038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/nethack-x11.png < 1254345046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254345049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't syncing < 1254345050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hmm < 1254345051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Vulture's is a fork that's more recently developed < 1254345053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1254345056 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Didn't it die like 10 years ago? < 1254345076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, there's a newspost from 2002. < 1254345086 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7, then. < 1254345088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1254345094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough < 1254345099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, is it 2009 already? < 1254345112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately < 1254345120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a "starts with 2, must be recent" reflex. < 1254345126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-09/nethack-x11.png < 1254345140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, me too, somewhat. < 1254345157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I forgot to blur my highly-sensitive taskbar of a submission from reddit, two people, IRC and some terminals! < 1254345165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are you 100% sure that there is SP3 for XP x64? < 1254345178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows XP x64 SP3 < 1254345178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 posts - 4 authors - Last post: 9 Mar < 1254345178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually you can install SP3 on x64 versions and if you use either WindowsUpdate or MicrosoftUpdate you will be prompted to install it ... < 1254345181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-Bit Windows XP Service Pack 3? - Don't think so... at least for ... < 1254345182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 Dec 2007 ... SP3 for Windows XP x64 = SP3 for Windows Server 2003, because Windows XP x64 is based on Windows Server 2003 and not on Windows XP 32bits. ... < 1254345194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEOPLE ARE CONFLICTED < 1254345204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that nethack-x11 looks just like mine < 1254345207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it seems you just listed three different opinions < 1254345214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty ugly and not particularly usable, in other words < 1254345224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Two google results. < 1254345226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it isn't listed on windows update or microsoft update < 1254345229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it has an annoying problem with the keyboard controls < 1254345235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the nethack-x11 tiles are really tiny < 1254345244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack has swappable tilesets < 1254345254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are larger better-looking ones, but it's a pain to figure out how to use them < 1254345304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick to my current strategy, which is not playing NetHack :P < 1254345396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is wrong with console? < 1254345404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing. < 1254345421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have assumed AnMaster would use nethack-el+nethack-lisp. < 1254345439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I use just plain nethack in facrt < 1254345441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact* < 1254345443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Farct. < 1254345459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAEB should be rewritten to use nethack-el, because of WHY GOD WHY. < 1254345481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't work on existing public servers < 1254345483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the whole point < 1254345489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY < 1254345490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD < 1254345490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY < 1254345499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context? < 1254345509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just horrific :P < 1254345515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to, you know, Emacs Lisp. < 1254345517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Emacs. < 1254345519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# All the beauty that comes with Emacs" --nethack-el features lis < 1254345521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*list < 1254345525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope they don't mean cosmetically... < 1254345541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using the console variant with IBMgraphics, though I don't really play. < 1254345575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far have you got? < 1254345578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasionally I pick up nethack and think, yeah, I can totally play this for years and years and finally ascend, I'm up for that kind of long-term project < 1254345585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and them I'm like fuck it, this is just dragging on < 1254345586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then < 1254345588 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1254345597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't type "'", apparently. < 1254345601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254345653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone use nethack-lisp directly, I wonder. < 1254345658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, in a console, with the Lisp. < 1254345671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been to the bottom of the Gehennom a couple of times, sort-of casually walking around. < 1254345697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254345700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey dudes, what's hanging?" < 1254345705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm just here to mull about." < 1254345723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it interesting that the owner of gehennom.org "doesn't really play". :P < 1254345755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had trouble inventing a sensible domain name to register. < 1254345779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, I've been the owner of befunge.org too, and I don't really write befunge either. I mean, in a serious fashion. < 1254345785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heikkikallasjoki.org sounds memorable and obvious to me! < 1254345800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You poor Swedes and your inability to name sanely anything after yourself. :P < 1254345802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254345802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finns. < 1254345804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have a nethack-themed 404 page in gehennom.org, maybe that counts. < 1254345808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did I type swedes. < 1254345827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, sweden is finland. < 1254345828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot. < 1254346009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have a ~/.nethackrc.console; I didn't know (or remember, anyway) that that sort of suffix notation existed. < 1254346049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish nethack would remember my settings. < 1254346053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254346054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enigma < 1254346077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also. < 1254346079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254346079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1254346244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Experimental#4, bash yourself and the white ball into the portal < 1254346245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheee < 1254346275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should change the scroll mode, as it messes up actual testing < 1254346303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... it has oxyds, right? < 1254346305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might be solvable < 1254346414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get at the ones behind the glass < 1254346419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, wall < 1254346424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if it is glass (I can't remember) < 1254346428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be able to use a laser and mirrors < 1254346430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there another stone to do that :) < 1254346463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, make a stone into glass? < 1254346471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just to hit them < 1254346480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :st_spitter < 1254346485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I just had trouble inventing a sensible domain name to register. <-- you own "gehennom.org"? < 1254346488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, hit the oxyds < 1254346493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's powered by extralives but there's an extralife dispenser on there somewhere < 1254346497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1254346500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254346505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, hitting at that range would be a pain < 1254346516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used is as my "default domain" before registering this zem.fi thing. < 1254346532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would be pretty impressive to win the level, though < 1254346555 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254346557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : st_spitter <-- huh? Not in last release? < 1254346566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders wtf Pentomino I is < 1254346570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1.01 < 1254346574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is I think, I may have the name wrong though < 1254346575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes windows 7 download works now < 1254346576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in 1.01 too < 1254346582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although with a different animation < 1254346585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I might have 1.0 or so < 1254346589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does the object to < 1254346591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do* < 1254346607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hit it and it shoots a cannonball < 1254346611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which destroys floor and opens oxtds < 1254346614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oxyds < 1254346617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how was http://gehennom.org/doc/knock/ generated? < 1254346618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing so costs extralives < 1254346630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :docbook, AnMaster < 1254346632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they layout seems VERY VERY familiar < 1254346632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the source < 1254346643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the linux documentation project uses it and stuff. < 1254346651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think debian install guides < 1254346651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254346666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1254346669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's whitespace between those in HTML < 1254346671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can mess up CSS etc < 1254346675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also preformatted stuff < 1254346675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1254346679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, generating html is a bitch < 1254346681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this makes it simpler < 1254346700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no newlines at all? < 1254346712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's uglier, but easier. < 1254346716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again they don't indent < 1254346721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is pretty silly. < 1254346726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it *is* < 1254346739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254346743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was that correction? < 1254346747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's done with DocBook. < 1254346751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" so *it *is pretty silly." < 1254346754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1254346758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: * starts a correction. < 1254346768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, both usages are common < 1254346770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use levenshtein distance or something to find out what to correct ;P < 1254346772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1254346777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what, just typing the correction? < 1254346781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1254346782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ending with * < 1254346783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1254346784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not < 1254346784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1254346786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only you use that in here < 1254346787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1254346789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe swedes do it a lot < 1254346792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but definitely not on english irc < 1254346793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I mean overall on irc < 1254346798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English channels < 1254346798 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254346799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1254346812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not english natives presumably < 1254346812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen anyone use it but you < 1254346813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not as much on freenode < 1254346913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Espirit#13 makes me want to make a level where if you move right once, it solves itself < 1254346913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is really hard otherwise < 1254346950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still possible? < 1254346954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254346957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better still, the self-solution should be slower than the hard one < 1254346961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a real pain to maneuver < 1254346983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agreed, although that destroys the beauty of "par 2:47, record 0:07" < 1254347003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see what you mean < 1254347024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it'd be full of it trying to move against you, so naturally if you went right and started to move you'd resist < 1254347027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do that simply with a massive dexterity-trick at the start, but disguising that would be more tricky < 1254347030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would be quite hard to find < 1254347078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, but not english natives presumably <-- one of them is admittedly an Australian... < 1254347089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh snap < 1254347096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was actually a good one :/ < 1254347120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you could do that simply with a massive dexterity-trick at the start, but disguising that would be more tricky < 1254347122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by this, btw? < 1254347129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that's very hard to do < 1254347130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is always fun to poke fun at au English < 1254347132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254347137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1254347141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by moving the mouse a certain way < 1254347142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it disguise what < 1254347152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea would be you could skip a portion of the level by doing something crazy at the start < 1254347157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that that would be hard to disguise < 1254347160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as anything other than what it was < 1254347207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if anyone has noticed a cheat in 0.92-1#46 < 1254347220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you? < 1254347224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254347251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly not, that's a weird level to want to look for shortcuts in < 1254347264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get all oxyds but one, kill yourself, hit the last one < 1254347278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's not considered cheating, it's a standard technique < 1254347287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it means you can get 0:01 < 1254347314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does the bottom left timer not reflect total time? < 1254347341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killing yourself has a delay of a bit over a second < 1254347347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both realtime and timer time (which is meant to be the same) < 1254347357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an exploit on timer time, it involves holding down ESC < 1254347381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't useful in most levels < 1254347381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world record is 0:06 < 1254347386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get like 0:03 < 1254347386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only those that look at the realtime clock for some reason < 1254347400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, why would you think you can get all oxyd-pairs but one? < 1254347412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're suggesting sounds like a legit way to get a world record < 1254347417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could set a new record, if it worked < 1254347431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit every oxyd but one, kill yourself, dash to it < 1254347440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can take as long as you want before killing yourself < 1254347444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1254347449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killing yourself doesn't reset the timer < 1254347450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it? < 1254347463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254347465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did previously < 1254347469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, possibly i lost all my lives the first time < 1254347469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254347473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resetting the level resets the timer < 1254347476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which happens when you run out of lives < 1254347479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254347508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dying without a level reset penalises you about 1 second by freezing your movements (leaving the level running), then you respawn with the timer at its current value < 1254347522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some levels are set to reset whenever you die, in which case extralives are only useful for blocking lasers < 1254347537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding out whether that setting's on or off is one of the first things I do on a level < 1254347547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I don't know about < 1254347550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by experiment) < 1254347590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does 0.92-1#106 have to be so loud? < 1254347646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw in http://imgur.com/6jeoK.png (just noticed that tab open) what the hell is up with the tiles < 1254347658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about them < 1254347667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look like garbage text < 1254347667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ones < 1254347670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the qt ones < 1254347673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: beats me, what the hell is up with anything else there? < 1254347678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what titles? < 1254347686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh tiles < 1254347688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the showpet heart shows as a heart, so it is trying to do tiles a bit < 1254347689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never said titles < 1254347695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's mostly broken ASCII by the look of it < 1254347706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong charset < 1254347739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mine here looks like fairly sane small tiles < 1254347739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than weird text < 1254347752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :par of 0.92-1#126 is 15s, ridiculous < 1254347762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: noticed the top of the window? < 1254347766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point is that it's broken for ais523 < 1254347796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: noticed the top of the window? <-- you mean those overlapping "titles"? < 1254347799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1254347806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens here too at default font size < 1254348060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh why "IANALAIDPOOTV". Supposedly it means "I Am Not A Lawyer And I Don't Play One On TV" but I don't get the joke about the TV bit... < 1254348096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, Ana, Laid Poo TV. < 1254348141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1254348141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, anal aid, poot the fifth. < 1254348182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should I interpret this as no one having a clue what the joke is? < 1254348197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpret it how you want, but I'll say one thing and that's whoosh. < 1254348229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not much point in whooshing people who know a joke exists but don't get it, and say so < 1254348233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what has laywers in some film got to do with anything < 1254348240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah < 1254348241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying "You say you know a joke exists but you don't get it? well, you don't get it!" < 1254348242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You amuse me AnMaster. < 1254348249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he could have used google < 1254348251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you're alien to this concept. < 1254348252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you amuse me ehird, in that particular line < 1254348268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I *googled* for this "IANALAIDPOOTV" which is why I found out what it meant < 1254348274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was unable go get further < 1254348281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1254348299 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reference to a joke. < 1254348302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you get the joke? If so could you please help. < 1254348309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, what one? < 1254348315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1254348326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION twiddles thumbs < 1254348327 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: google for "but I play one on TV" < 1254348337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1254348339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a shocking idea < 1254348339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for ehird to say "woosh" at ais523  < 1254348345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you ever have thought of that, lament. < 1254348347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you misspelt "whoosh" < 1254348363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, ok. didn't know that was the original joke < 1254348384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I did try "And I Don't Play One On TV" too < 1254348430 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your defense, neither the original joke nor the "AIDPOOTV" come-back are funny < 1254348440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funniness is totally unrelated to recognition < 1254348444 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hard to understand what they're about < 1254348523 0 :gergely!n=gergely@183-111-147.ip.adsl.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254348535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" funniness is totally unrelated to recognition" <-- and how would one recognise those if one had no clue what to recognise? < 1254348535 0 :gergely!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254348554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you clearly had some clue because you asked < 1254348606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, deduction by logic: It didn't make sense if it wasn't a reference or joke. < 1254348619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I had no clue *what* reference or *what* joke < 1254348698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's makes about as much sense as me attacking you for not being able to recognise a 5 second piece of music as (for example): Hadyn, early period < 1254348727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is offended! < 1254348737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um no? < 1254348748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irritated yes, offended no < 1254349849 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254349851 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254352092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.0G windows7.vdi < 1254352107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a clean install "rebooting from install" < 1254352117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny? yes < 1254352390 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1254352667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254353142 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254353360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it hit 7.1 GB before desktop showed up < 1254353813 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The article failed to mention his enthusiastic support of nuclear power and how he is going to be meeting with world leaders to get more nuclear plants purchased and built. Essentially, he'll be hawking radiation." < 1254353854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, who? < 1254353867 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stephen Hawking. (Also, that quote was a joke) < 1254353870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=4668974 < 1254353893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1254353935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to be hawking radiation you first have to jump into a black hole < 1254353988 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought, to be hawking radiation you first have to spontaneously appear from vacuum just outside of a black hole? < 1254354166 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254354303 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-067-069.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254354306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1254354322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7.0G windows7.vdi < 1254354322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that is a clean install "rebooting from install" < 1254354322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : funny? yes < 1254354325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's funny < 1254354882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i am using be in the "become" sense here < 1254354972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, jumping into vs. turning into radiation just outside are just different ways of looking at the same phenomenon, iiuc < 1254355028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since for example time dilation at the horizon w.r.t. the outside universe is infinite < 1254355152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so actually jumping into a black hole you'd just die due to being ripped apart, correct? < 1254355157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know anything about black holes < 1254355175 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes :( < 1254355188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, say you had a pod you could put around you, God gave it to you < 1254355195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stops you being ripped apart, the laws of physics be damned < 1254355198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I jump into a black hole