< 1254355202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens < 1254355207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the actual ripping apart only takes a fraction of a second iirc < 1254355213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally < 1254355219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you just like, gradually lose all sight of the outside world and freeze in time < 1254355231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, do you just die when time becomes infinitely slow, or does it just slow down (you don't notice of course) < 1254355238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you live and die eventually of starvation/thirst etc < 1254355241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming this magic pod < 1254355244 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you die way before time slows down significantly < 1254355249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to everyone else you just move into it slower and slower < 1254355256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: well, yeah < 1254355256 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1254355261 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah < 1254355262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's assume we're superhuman and live for thousands of years < 1254355266 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1254355276 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the time slows down from the outside observer's perspective < 1254355288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so my pod goes slower and slower < 1254355290 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for you, the time in the universe outside the hole correspondingly speeds up < 1254355298 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so very soon after, the universe ends < 1254355301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254355317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but you never lose sight of the outside world? < 1254355333 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not < 1254355337 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming very large black hole, the radius where gravitational tidal forces become too large is inside the black hole. < 1254355358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally light from the outside will keep coming in... < 1254355366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah < 1254355397 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to one theory, you fall into the hole, everything flashes white as the whole remaining time of the outside universe "flashes before your eyes", and you get exploded outward in a white hole in a new universe < 1254355403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i wave (really quickly so it's normal for the outside; I'm magic), no matter how far in I am, the outside can still see me? < 1254355420 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the light can't get out < 1254355425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this is all assuming the inside actually exists, and is just not a mathematical abstraction that physically really stops at the horizon (outer boundary) < 1254355425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1254355434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not just < 1254355445 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would certainly be a bit strange if "reality stopped" there, no? < 1254355447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1254355449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's a christian? < 1254355454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz pray to god for one of dem pods < 1254355458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to do some experimental physics < 1254355549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows Christians
< 1254355554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: sure but it might be where the holographic theory actually hits reality... the surface of the black hole being where you actually hit on the universe being 2-dimensional in a quantum sense. but now i am blathering. < 1254355566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that sounds trippy < 1254355572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll take some drugs in the pod. < 1254355582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I can experience quantum fabric. < 1254355595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle < 1254355603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can i just say that quantum foam is one of my favourite names for anything ever) < 1254355619 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as i understand there's a whole bunch of theories for what happens inside < 1254355629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "string theory" sidebar spotted < 1254355632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quackery assumed < 1254355648 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gravititational fields in/near black hole are so extreme, that even GR breaks down at some point. But what is not known where it breaks down. Outside the event horzion, at event horizon or somewhere very near the central singularity. < 1254355685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: with the "everything goes quickly and universe ends" thing, I assume the universe ends before you actually hit the singularity? < 1254355711 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1254355719 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it depends on whether the universe is finite :) < 1254355749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254355770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1254355776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if someone else came in a pod at the exact same time? < 1254355784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you see them? could they see you? are your times the same? < 1254355875 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are your shoe sizes the same? < 1254355882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1254355889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: by the equations of general relativity, once you pass the horizon there is a finite time from your perspective until you hit the inner singularity < 1254355916 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but would the universe end before that? < 1254355931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if those finite times overlap for the two pods, i would assume they could interact if the inner space actually exists < 1254355936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever noticed how arbitrary physics is :P < 1254355948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: before you hit < 1254355951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the universe ends you cannot hit < 1254355952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. never hit < 1254355954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to be before < 1254356018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you do realize that the relativity of simultaneity inside a black hole is so great that it might not make sense to speak of whether the outer universe has ended or not? < 1254356024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254356068 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok < 1254356085 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but wouldn't the hole have evaporated by then??? < 1254356103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its horizon would ... but would the inside? < 1254356110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa. < 1254356115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w h o a. < 1254356123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, if it's subjective whether the universe is ended < 1254356125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need a huge pod < 1254356133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff everyone (now immortal) in it < 1254356135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go into a black hole < 1254356137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1254356142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinitely long-lasting universe < 1254356262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there must be some scifi based on that idea < 1254356307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a branch of physics just dedicated to finding out all the awesome shit you could do if the pod existed. < 1254357058 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254357952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, anyone with Enigma? < 1254357960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.92-3#16 Almost There < 1254357967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: third block on the right side < 1254357969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoooooooooly shit < 1254357973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's 6x6 screens big < 1254359274 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-169-6-193.range86-169.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254360364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Microsoft's new Barrelfish OS: built on domain specific languages written in Haskell :: PDF" < 1254360414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Where is zero - I can only approach it" < 1254360452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254360482 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254360483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1254360485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sgeo - Any context of zero - it doesn't matter if it is numbers (they make an imaginary place and call it zero) - it is known only by God" < 1254360492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^someone in a Bible channel < 1254360509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1254360521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, surely you have better things to do than troll a bible channel < 1254360559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I see someone saying things like "I guess only Our Almighty Father knows how a quark can exist and yet not exist at the same time.", what can I do < 1254360579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there really is a quantum physics thing with simulantaneous existance/non-existance < 1254360613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realise that they're delusional and believe an inconsistent, unjustified assertion without evidence, and thus cannot be reasoned with and will contradict facts merely because they contradict their own contradictory belief system? < 1254360629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's untrollable. < 1254360671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even talking about God. I'm talking about science. < 1254360684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You could point out that just because they don't understand something, it doesn't mean that God intends _all_ human beings forever not to understand it. < 1254360692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they will not separate the two; science only comes below God. < 1254360695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/they/_they_/ < 1254360697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are wasting your time. < 1254360724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this guy things he understands things, like how humans don't understand 0 or infinity < 1254360742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course he doesn't understand things, he's a Christian! < 1254360753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats ehird -----###
< 1254360768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're as prejudiced as that guy < 1254360778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever read the bible oerjan < 1254360790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, I haven't seen that guy be prejudiced, just stupid < 1254360812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: comments like that indicate your prejudice < 1254360824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you are refusing to see the point that just because someone believes the bible they don't have to extend their stupidity to _everything_ < 1254360829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the Bible may be evil, but that doesn't mean Christians are < 1254360835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course - but this person clearly DOES < 1254360855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sure, but it is not _because_ of the bible < 1254360863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, of course I'm prejudiced against idiots. At least my belief system is self-correcting, has shown real results and is not based on unfalsifiable obvious fairy tales. < 1254360868 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with the Bible. Not a great read, tough. < 1254360869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just his excuse < 1254360871 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1254360873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woohoo! I just proved to myself that I'm capable of disagreeing with ehird! < 1254360879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: considering the bible says so much that is simply not so, scientifically, it totally is < 1254360913 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so you hate science fiction? < 1254360916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not all Christians are idiots. Not closely examining every little thing that you were taught does not make you an idiot. < 1254360926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't believe science fiction is true. < 1254360928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I did I would be an idiot. < 1254360938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I never claimed all Christians are idiots. < 1254360942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am talking about *one* *person*. < 1254360943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh. < 1254360953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Of course he doesn't understand things, he's a Christian!" < 1254360961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically what you're saying is the Bible is evil because people believe it? < 1254360977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I also never said the bible is evil; please do not take Sgeo's misquotes and apply them to me. thanks. < 1254360979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that was < 1254360983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) joking < 1254360988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) not implying anything < 1254360990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the one who said the Bible was evil < 1254361000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christians do indeed not understand things; not all things, and I never said they were idiots. < 1254361001 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh wait, I was misreading one of your responses to oerjan < 1254361006 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1254361011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But being a Christian in the modern age is, indeed, not understanding things about science. < 1254361022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least about what is fiction and what isn't < 1254361048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bible's rather shoddy fiction, no coherent plot and a lot of gratuitous explicit scenes, and the hero is a bitch :P < 1254361085 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely agree with you there! < 1254361119 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But people believing in the Bible and understanding science are not mutually exclusive < 1254361152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering the Bible states things that are simply scientifically untrue, yes they are < 1254361170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unless they read the whole Bible and take the whole thing literally, no < 1254361179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Believing in the Bible" was what was said. < 1254361204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, if you believe in an arbitrary subset of the Bible according to an arbitrary interpretation ignoring the text... no, wait, you're still believing in something unfalsifiable given without evidence, so you fail at science. < 1254361208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might still be considered to "believe in the Bible" without taking the whole thing loiterally < 1254361239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I know someone who maintains everything in the Bible to be 100% fact while still agreeing with modern science. He gets a bit fuzzy around some bits, but I would not consider himself to be unscientific < 1254361240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe at applying science to everything, but that doesn't mean you disagree with scientific knowledge < 1254361244 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/himself/him/ < 1254361267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So, let me get this straight: what does he do with his hair? does he stone adulterers? < 1254361274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or has he resigned himself to going to Hell? < 1254361301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly took the shortcut of saying that Jesus overturned the rules of the OT, or whatever < 1254361303 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, he keeps it shot lest he develop gargantuan strength and accidentally hurt a friend ;) < 1254361313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol coppro < 1254361328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so, apart from that wink there, he clearly does not take the bible as 100% true < 1254361361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my sarcasm, not his < 1254361368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware. < 1254361369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his hair is short though < 1254361383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was simply stating that he empirically does not believe in the Bible totally. < 1254361387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is undeniable < 1254361421 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You'd be surprised. I haven't managed to work out how he manages to believe in modern science and the Bible. But he does. < 1254361591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: um < 1254361592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just disproved it < 1254361627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, you did not < 1254361670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does he do with adulterers. < 1254361698 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to my knowledge he's never encountered one < 1254361701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your premise is that a logical belief-system and an illogical one are irreconcilable because they contradict each other. Do note, however, that one of the belief systems is illogical, and thus the combined beliefe system is, by definition, illogical. < 1254361733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simple, if he doesn't do what the bible says, and he doesn't think he's going to hell, then he does NOT BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE < 1254361786 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to ask him on that one < 1254361824 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254361853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect that he would say that the specific instructions given in the Bible can only be properly interpreted in their historical context < 1254362738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1254362755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you mean he doesn't literally believe in the bible? shocking. < 1254362796 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: He believes in it; he just doesn't take the instructions literally < 1254362799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference < 1254362841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every christian "believes" in the bible by that measure < 1254362854 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily < 1254362858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only unusual if they believe in what it says as WHAT IT SAYS rather than some extremely hamfisted, arbitrary interpretation of their own design < 1254362859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 this music < 1254362874 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you agree with ehird when you did something and he said that people who do that are idiots? < 1254362904 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, I'd need to be reminded of when this was < 1254362915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it sounds familiar, as in, very recent < 1254362925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly because i do that all the time. < 1254362938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm fairly sure Warrigal wouldn't know; he does, after all, have me on ignore. < 1254362941 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he believes in the historical account. < 1254362947 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you said "s***", asterisks and all, and he said that self-censorship is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of offense or something. < 1254362967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so he believes in it selectively < 1254362968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes historical accounts < 1254362969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no instructions < 1254362973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., selectively. < 1254362978 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: disagree < 1254363009 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if I told you to go pour me a glass of water, and instead you dipped the glass in a pitcher, would you be, for any reasonable definition, violating my instruction? < 1254363018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal, I think I might have disagreed, then < 1254363020 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure < 1254363030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, if we're talking about interpreting your instructions *literally* < 1254363030 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1254363032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we are < 1254363042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why though < 1254363045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about whether he believes in the bible literally, which is the whole point of the bible: to be believed in as it says < 1254363053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because I didn't pour. < 1254363057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put it in a pitcher instead. < 1254363060 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Hey, there are Christians on IRC. < 1254363066 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why are we taking everything literally though? < 1254363079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1254363087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: even in here :P < 1254363144 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where I can find these people. < 1254363162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: most places. in here, for instance. oh wait you can't hear me < 1254363191 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: Try #christianity or something on a network that tolerates them < 1254363206 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers and awesome bash quote now
< 1254363214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an < 1254363214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, ass, ha ha. < 1254363305 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: huh? < 1254363308 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if freenode is a network that tolerates... it. < 1254363313 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not. < 1254363325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely why I mentioned other networks in the first place < 1254363330 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try efnet < 1254363336 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything goes on efnet < 1254363341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Come join us in ##religion where the main community is building" < 1254363343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--##christianity < 1254363351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whole 13 people in ##religion. < 1254363388 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode policy says that religious "invective" is off-topic. Presumably, civil discussion is just fine. < 1254363393 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, I'll try EFnet. < 1254363400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode is for peer-directed project. < 1254363402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*projects < 1254363411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't understand Warrigal; is he realising that there are Christians on IRC at all, or that they might congregate in one channel? < 1254364738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is in EFNet
< 1254364781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and everyone. < 1254365014 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what channel? < 1254365032 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#atheism, #Bible, and #secondlife < 1254365061 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is #secondlife a Bible channel? < 1254365069 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How Christian is #atheism? < 1254365104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: master of asking questions that he knows the answer to. < 1254366454 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254368496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to find Helvetica and Helvetica Neue in single unified .ttfs with hinting
< 1254368497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a pony < 1254369178 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254369418 0 :hekau!n=hekau@75.108.141.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254370216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hekau < 1254370228 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, ehird < 1254370236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen your name around here before; new? < 1254370252 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am, any advice? < 1254370262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, turn back before the darkness envelops you < 1254370278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume you're here for the programming languages and not the esoterick magick we sometimes see people after < 1254370313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page will be useful if you haven't already seen it < 1254370316 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you think that? < 1254370333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: well, because that's what this channel is about and technology is freenode's main topic. i guess my assumption was erroneous? < 1254370365 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the mistake was mine - you are correct. how embarassing. < 1254370386 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i am also fond of code < 1254370422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically we only deal in the useless languages, which is closer to esoterica than most related things. < 1254370452 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck, for example? < 1254370468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's useful < 1254370469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the canonical example, also: unlambda, intercal < 1254370486 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro :P < 1254370493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, we're off-topic an awful lot, although I doubt we could seriously entertain the topic of magick for more than a few seconds :) < 1254370507 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not into magick :) < 1254370536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was using it as a blanket term for esoterica, heretical as that may be < 1254370542 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather the psychology of the occult - more of an anthropologic perspective, you know? < 1254370553 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes Magic
< 1254370561 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gathering? :P < 1254370567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: none of those words make any sense to me and yet they are somehow infinitely intriguing < 1254370571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth do you mean < 1254370592 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1254370618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, i understand all of them < 1254370623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :individually. < 1254370652 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than focusing on the application of occult knowledge, i instead enjoy musing with the human aspect of the occult - ie what is it about the occult that appeals to people, where does it derive its power, is it merely a manifestation of subconscious human abilities, etc. etc. < 1254370663 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do certain symbols have power < 1254370670 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or specific connotations within our psyche < 1254370672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i be a cynical bastard and answer that it has no power. :) < 1254370681 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you are absolutely correct < 1254370684 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the occult has no power < 1254370687 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people however do < 1254370691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: yes < 1254370711 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when they exert their will towards a certain goal < 1254370716 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives the illusion of power < 1254370719 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like a placebo of the mind < 1254370720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: so sort of like, what the appeal of the occult is to people? and why it psychologically, causes changes in them? < 1254370721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1254370736 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254370739 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1254370774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an existing stuff on this or is it something you thought up :) < 1254370812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's called neurosis < 1254370824 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there are people out there who study the occult from the psychological level, but usually they use different terms to avoid the negative connotations < 1254370828 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1254370840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Neurosis (from the Greek νεύρωσις) refers to a class of functional mental disorder involving distress but neither delusions nor hallucinations]] < 1254370846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not. < 1254370861 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: don't trust wikipedia < 1254370872 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Princeton's is better "a mental or personality disturbance not attributable to any known neurological or organic dysfunction " < 1254370889 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, coppro, do you refer to the study of neurosis < 1254370890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's useless < 1254370893 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that i am neurotic? < 1254370900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Neurosis: It's the condition when we don't know what the fuck the condition is!" < 1254370904 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the former < 1254370910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the former < 1254370918 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, you are exactly correct. < 1254370924 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, for example, the placebo effect < 1254370936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :placebo is about physical < 1254370947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as hekau said they're talking about placebo of the mental < 1254370955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ awkward sentence there < 1254370955 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's caused neurologically < 1254370985 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neurosis by the princeton definition does apply in this context < 1254370990 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks < 1254370993 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254371013 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this example is a bit cliche < 1254371016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, coppro uses a term, I dispute it with a definition < 1254371017 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people experience things that cannot be attributed to any disease simply because they want to < 1254371022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he disputes it back with a definition that doesn't apply either < 1254371025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1254371027 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the nazi party is the perfect case of occultism at work < 1254371047 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a form of neurosis < 1254371058 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird - too logical :P < 1254371069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's me < 1254371082 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blessing & curse < 1254371092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the nazi party didn't really have rituals did it < 1254371097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just brainwashing of a sort < 1254371112 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why do you think double-blind experiments exist? It's well-documented, for instance, that expectations bias even the most meticulous of scientists < 1254371112 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly they made heavy use of occult symbolism < 1254371128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I agree; and? < 1254371142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: true, but aren't rituals a kinda important aspect of occultism? < 1254371143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's the same thing < 1254371147 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the swastika, the symbol for the SS, a skull resting atop two crossed bones, terminology, the linkage between the aryan race and german mythology < 1254371149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: as what < 1254371169 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ah now were in the realm of werner heisenberg < 1254371174 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my favs. < 1254371178 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what hekau was talking about, with people causing their expectations/beliefs to change their perceptions of the world < 1254371196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double blind is just guarding against people giving signals unintentionally. < 1254371207 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i'm sure there are rituals as well < 1254371213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so guys, did we just go off topic in three lines or what < 1254371216 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd be surprised - let me try to find some < 1254371218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's more than that < 1254371239 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wikipedia to the rescue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialism_and_Occultism < 1254371275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1254371278 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1254371283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254371285 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they have to name drop aleister crowley in there < 1254371295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crowley amuses me < 1254371299 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and me < 1254371314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway hitler was a christian, so it seems quite odd to adopt occultism < 1254371314 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A perfect blind experiment, for instance, requires the researchers setting up the experiment and the researchers measuring the results to be different and unaware of each other < 1254371318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again he wasn't much of a christian. < 1254371335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, A+ for the practicing christianity thing, F for killing a bunch of people, you know < 1254371346 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the masons, rosicrucians, etc. are all 'christian' orders < 1254371359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Masonry isn't anything though. < 1254371366 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not outwardly < 1254371367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he was pretty A+ at killing people < 1254371376 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they do require a belief in god < 1254371392 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, unfortunately < 1254371405 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good convo. < 1254371414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: now, let's not get into conspiracy theories; by all accounts masonry is a bunch of people chatting and considering themselves superior because they act out silly plays and claim to believe in god < 1254371436 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau, i thought you were referring to nothing as in no religious affiliation < 1254371438 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not intention < 1254371441 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION chants mason voodoo quietly in the corner.
< 1254371442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, they're agnostic as to what religion as long as it has a Supreme Being; although the rest of it may be stepped in Christianity, I don't know < 1254371447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hekau: stop talking to yourself! < 1254371450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1254371453 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird :P < 1254371458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nazi mason voodoo. < 1254371463 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have my best conversations with myself < 1254371464 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1254371473 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nazi mason voodoo of aleister crowley no less < 1254371485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nazi mason voodoo of aleister crowley's rubber duck. < 1254371488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quack < 1254371517 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1254371566 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways really we're just dealing with the inherent will of the individual here < 1254371572 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not any magic or whatever < 1254371594 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when enough people believe something it becomes true < 1254371603 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there you have it < 1254371614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much what i thought prior < 1254371624 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but what a shock to all the goths < 1254371651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? why? you just don't appreciate the vibrations, man < 1254371660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just can't accept what uh, isn't real < 1254371676 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mom, can i summon the devil to help me clean my room? < 1254371696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT UNTIL YOU CLEAN YOUR ROOM < 1254371706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinks
< 1254371706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254371718 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't understand me, mom! nobody does! KORN < 1254371758 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pantheism is interesting < 1254371763 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturalistic pantheism < 1254371765 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1254371778 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :porntheism is more interesting. < 1254371780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pantheism is boring. "if I redefine 'god' to mean 'universe', I can be an atheistic theist! GENIUS!" < 1254371788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i'm so... profound..." < 1254371788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1254371799 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, point taken < 1254371816 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so p.c. < 1254371827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kinda get the feeling someone took einstein's words a bit too literally and came up with pantheism < 1254371846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe in spooky action at a distance < 1254371857 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe in synchronicity < 1254371876 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, einstein does get muddled < 1254371883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't synchronicity just a word for "i don't understand probability-- hey, look, a coincidence!" < 1254371960 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaningful coincidence is probabilistic? < 1254371998 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can be wrong here, it's cool. < 1254372002 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254372055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1254372066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that synchronicity is always explainable with less hand-waving and metaphysics by probability, the fact that coincidences *do* happen, and the brain's selective remembering: how many instances of non-synchronicity do you remember?! (see also: Baader-Meinhof phenomenon) < 1254372076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf it was deleted. < 1254372093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1254372101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic thing is that you see something, then notice it more < 1254372106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because previously, your brain subconsciously ignored it < 1254372112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then when it's brought to your attention... < 1254372119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so, it seems that everyone's finding something at the same time as you < 1254372126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your brain becoming more alert to mentionings of it < 1254372130 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just sounds like advertising < 1254372138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, no < 1254372142 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1254372148 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bombard someone with something until they notice < 1254372161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simply: if you think about something, your brain switches from "subconsciously ignore" to "try to find" < 1254372172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :advertising could use it, i guess, but it's unrelated < 1254372180 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you're getting at < 1254372198 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called...self manifestation or something or other < 1254372208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baader-meinhof :P < 1254372217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure why it's called that) < 1254372254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1254372254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Baader-Meinhof phenomenon" was coined by a reader of the St. Paul Pioneer Press. The Minnesota newspaper runs a daily column called "Bulletin Board," for which readers, using pseudonyms, submit humorous or interesting anecdotes. The term was coined when a reader submitted a story around 1986,[1] about how he or she first heard about the terrorist group known as the Baader-Meinhof Gang and then heard about it again a short while later from a totally d < 1254372254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifferent source. < 1254372258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iterasi.net/openviewer.aspx?sqrlitid=vpdslrou9k6lgly97zdw9w < 1254372261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy of the WP article < 1254372299 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the article < 1254372452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess one day we'll have to accept that we're no longer just about the languages :) < 1254372485 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, i'm sorry to drag you all so off topic < 1254372494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is... normal :| < 1254372517 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'll be off then < 1254372521 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!n=user@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254372528 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing, testing < 1254372530 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fun chaps, thanks for humoring me < 1254372530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo[Emacs]: NO! < 1254372559 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, is rcirc better? < 1254372564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1254372565 0 :hekau!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1254372570 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using ERC now < 1254372575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop it stop it stop it stop it stop it stop it stop it and especially stop THAT but stop the emacs too. < 1254372582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pit stop. < 1254372622 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1254372625 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so horrible? < 1254372668 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to use this as my regular client, incidentally < 1254372668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are using an IRC client written in a dialect of Lisp with no lexical scoping in a no-multitasking, crippled ...thing environment that claims to be an operating system and has so many kludges your brain would hurt. < 1254372672 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just testing it out < 1254372680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*claims to be an editor < 1254372685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freudian slip there. < 1254372724 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame the book I bought at least 9 years ago that I thought would be about Macs < 1254372739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I blame you because you did this. < 1254372755 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee lack of lexical scoping! < 1254372772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least have the decency to use vim if you're going to be using an awful editor. It has a coherent philosophy of combining commands and what they apply to. < 1254372782 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1254372789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages without lexical scoping are great for some things < 1254372791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test failed because you're using ERC. < 1254372803 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm now in two channels at once. < 1254372808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are a bad person. < 1254372845 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I take it that ehird doesn't like lisp? < 1254372862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say that? < 1254372863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said that. < 1254372881 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't have lexical scoping... or is it just elisp that doesn't have it? < 1254372894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike Lisps with no lexical scoping, a ton of shitness and a bunch of design decisions firmly rooted in the 80s running in a terrible, crippled single-tasking environment that sucks so much because it used to be an editor. < 1254372904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every Lisp worth its salt has lexical scoping. < 1254372907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every LANGUAGE worth its salt does. < 1254372910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even PHP has it. < 1254372953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if I ping Sgeo[Emacs] < 1254372965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at life. < 1254372965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254372979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs doesn't react, or otherwise indicate to switch over to it, but the nick's hilighted < 1254373261 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, emacs got confused and decided that my /server was in this window < 1254373328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/uLH0g.png < 1254373348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, you're not even using EmacsW32. < 1254373412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know it existed. Thanks < 1254373420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the patched version. < 1254373428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hide the toolbar. It's worthless. < 1254373579 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I said that I was using CUA, what would your reaction be? < 1254373675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's saner than the Emacs bindings. Too bad you broke your C-x key. Oh wait, it has a hack to fix that. Shazam, it sure is nice hacking around the fact that Emacs is a pile of shit. < 1254373800 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you once tell me to use emacs to edit haskell source? < 1254373817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, at the time there was nothing better. maybe leksah is decent these days. < 1254373829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but definitely not for anything that isn't haskell or lisp editing. < 1254373854 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERC has a feature you missed on X-Chat < 1254373864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1254373867 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to click a link and having it open < 1254373887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat-gnome has that, and I think it's a setting in xchat. < 1254374023 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this Pal and Fo... are these just ERC's names for friend and ignore? < 1254374037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test < 1254374038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs, using different, stupid terminology for existing concepts? < 1254374039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOCK HORROR < 1254374042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM SHOCKED < 1254374044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND HORRORED < 1254374048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it just made my name grey < 1254374079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coool. < 1254374083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cooooooooooool. < 1254374540 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-x C-c < 1254374548 0 :Sgeo[Emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254374566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't that cut? OH WAIT IT'S BASED ON THE PRESENCE OF A SELECTION AND A TIME DELAY. < 1254374571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs kludges, I'm shocked. shocked. < 1254374749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that C-c C-c might be ambiguous < 1254374773 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c C-c C-c C-c C-c C < 1254374782 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it C-c - or C-c C-c? < 1254374910 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-Cc_c-C--CC-C-CCcc-C--C < 1254375714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254375737 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.224.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254375817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254376103 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254376389 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254376396 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ever tried esoc? < 1254376410 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, esco < 1254376414 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esco.sf.net < 1254376481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha < 1254376481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $// < 1254376485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esco is a running joke here. well, used to be. < 1254376503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a shitty idea, and they spammed our wiki. < 1254376510 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until it became so wildly out of date that we forgot about it. < 1254376511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they live in a warped version of reality; < 1254376517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Byter is a language for training your brain" -esco < 1254376520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Byter is a language for training brains" -esolang wiki < 1254376535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I liked how they implemented all the BF derivatives with a huge amount of boilerplate < 1254376538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was fun, that. < 1254376568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildly out of date? the wiki?? < 1254376591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1254376624 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering what Gregor was referring to < 1254376635 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is looking at the esco package
< 1254376654 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, there's a lot of "boilerplate" there, but the GNU Auto{conf,make} stuff takes more room than anything < 1254376656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shit and the idea is shit < 1254376667 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in C++ too (meh) :-/ < 1254376667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1254376667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1254376679 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.224.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254376686 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb wb wb < 1254376698 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"now type 'make' and pray"... heh < 1254376725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much boilerplate... < 1254376741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, you can *totally use macros*. Just saying. < 1254376757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esco is fundamentally pointless; nobody has ever thought "gee, I wish all these slow and badly-written esolang interpreters were in the same binary" < 1254376767 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macros in C++? isn't that frowned upon? < 1254376771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it's all pretty poor. < 1254376797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Because people prefer typing more? < 1254376811 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't a C++ dude
< 1254376837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C macros are crappy metaprogramming, but it is at least metaprogramming. And C++ *badly* needs it... < 1254377654 0 :oklopol!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254377676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome. < 1254377690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome. to. < 1254377719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've recently come to realize math is not as easy as cs. < 1254377741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gasp. < 1254377742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and. < 1254377780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andler < 1254377815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the exercises in automata theory took me like 5 hours < 1254377827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should be a fucking expert! :P < 1254377855 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1254377860 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION got esco to work ... barely
< 1254377870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automata theory is... Both math and CS... < 1254377893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but it's at math dep, therefore has about 40 times harder homework. < 1254377984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying math is inherently harder than cs... although i suppose it is < 1254377991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess i am saying that < 1254378048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also enough irc for today, the fun starts in 10 minutes ~> < 1254378087 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, what's 10 min?? < 1254378180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably classes. < 1254378304 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considered that although in his part of the world, it's a little after midnight
< 1254378350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6:25 am in uk. < 1254378352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's in fi. < 1254378596 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what exactly were the problems with esco? < 1254378601 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem THAT bad < 1254378614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because it's a shitty idea, and they spammed our wiki. < 1254378616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : esco is fundamentally pointless; nobody has ever thought "gee, I wish all these slow and badly-written esolang interpreters were in the same binary" < 1254378641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were also obnoxious on irc. < 1254378718 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes the irony of that statement ;-)
< 1254378727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to think of the last time he's set himself up for disappointment this much
< 1254378743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I'm an asshole; there's a difference. < 1254378767 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think IRC itself just lends to colder interaction < 1254378793 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just you < 1254378795 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously) < 1254378815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm not a dick irl :) < 1254378822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's mostly due to shyness, though. < 1254378923 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, esco isn't that bad an idea, but it's pretty paltry to only support say six languages (I expected lots more) < 1254378958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it a good idea. why should every language be written by people who aren't experts in it, and have it all put in one binary < 1254378961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the purpose < 1254378988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem, Parrot anyone? ;-) < 1254379023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even slightly similar < 1254379026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parrot is just a vm. < 1254379065 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they have implemented various languages for it < 1254379069 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1254379072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant < 1254379078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concepts are completely unrelated < 1254379104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esco? < 1254379207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esco.sf.net < 1254379231 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you say they're all slow, but sometimes speed isn't important < 1254379242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it executes as much as possible esoteric languages? < 1254379257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also boo cvs < 1254379282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: so what? < 1254379285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use a standalone interpreter < 1254379307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esco's interpreters all suck their only advantage is that they're all in one binary and maintained by people who don't know the language due to attempting to be jacks of all trades < 1254379310 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a VM has advantages < 1254379311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus they spammed our wiki. < 1254379317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they don't have a vm < 1254379321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all separate interpreters < 1254379321 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254379352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an unrelated note, I should learn to use LLVM < 1254379411 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not all standalone interpreters are created equal anyways < 1254379422 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't think esco is necessarily any worse than most < 1254379428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh, what? < 1254379498 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the wiki says BFF4LNR is the fastest interpreter < 1254379530 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's debatable, esp. since he only used old compilers (and it got worse with Cygwin on the second test, which is suspicious) < 1254379552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what < 1254379604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of esco's interpreters are 5-minute affairs that standalone, would be worthless. all it is is a switch over multiple languages executing each one. this is identical to multiple binaries, but stupider, and only serves to try and hide the fact that the interpreters are bad and anyone could make one equivalent in a few minutes: these are not best of breed; they're rubbish < 1254379609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they spammed our wiki; did i mention that. < 1254379654 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spammed as in what? kept adding over and over and over despite resistance? < 1254379669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and standalone wastes more cluster space, don't cha know ;-) < 1254379681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they added their interpreter to every single language article they supported, and readded them back without comment when they were removed < 1254379691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once months after, iirc < 1254379701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly spamming < 1254379719 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people (e.g. Wikipedia) are more against external links than others < 1254379727 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Befunge article on Wikipedia isn't exactly perfect either < 1254379734 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should edit that one of these days
< 1254379763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge isn't really notable < 1254379792 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is, more than HPQ+ (or whatever it's called) ;-) < 1254379809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and this irc channel is more notable than my toilet. < 1254379810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254379862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HQ9 < 1254379867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*HQ9+ < 1254379878 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the object-oriented variant, HQ9++ < 1254380210 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just silly, that one is < 1254380225 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not deranged enough ;-) < 1254380638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1254382450 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254382461 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254383671 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1254383999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1254384000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1254385295 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254387836 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254390054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1254391955 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-188.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254392804 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254392909 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254393345 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-fiddolebusocxzbi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254394361 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254394406 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254394979 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-cgrpddulasjceuss JOIN :#esoteric < 1254395461 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254395705 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254397956 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-5-6.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254398343 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254400069 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/freenode/x-doxthjaqslxungfx JOIN :#esoteric < 1254404536 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254405536 0 :ais523!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-zlzpxdxsiwryvebb JOIN :#esoteric < 1254405548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone < 1254405577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird will probably think I'm crazy but: I have a massively powerful desktop computer here, but I'm using it just to talk on IRC while my laptop does a fsck < 1254405687 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define massively powerful < 1254405725 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1254406023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Capable of destroying a planet in a single stroke. < 1254406038 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you don't have a program to do that? < 1254406045 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else you'd have used it, I mean < 1254406058 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would've*, I guess < 1254406081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's in a Ubuntu repository somewhere, but I don't have a massively enough powerful desktop. < 1254406095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1254406097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1254406151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254406170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: more powerful than I'm used to computers being < 1254406178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably less powerful than whatever ehird has < 1254406187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1254406189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, specs? < 1254406192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1254406204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cat /proc/cpuinfo free -m lspci < 1254406205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1254406220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of those works as non-root < 1254406235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just checking the permissions on /proc first < 1254406240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm rather paranoid...) < 1254406251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you *can't* change proc permissions afaik < 1254406267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you patch the kernel < 1254406267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could mount it inside a folder that didn't have the right permissions to seek into it < 1254406272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do need root perms to mount proc < 1254406297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it seems to be a Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz < 1254406308 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quad < 1254406316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need root permissions to mount anything. Except that there is suid stuff to handle stuff like "any user may mount the cd" and such < 1254406318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which runs at 1998MHz, according to the same entry < 1254406331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it has 4 cores < 1254406336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to fit the name < 1254406343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, about running speed: dynamic cpu speed, will increase ondemand < 1254406348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you have seen that before < 1254406349 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1254406358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably; I didn't realise that showed up in /proc/cpuinfo though < 1254406393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for memory, it seems to have 2002516k RAM and 4192924k swap (according to top) < 1254406404 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+", @ ~2GHz IIRC < 1254406426 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is fast enough for me, for now < 1254406441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: All in all, that's not really "massively powerful". You could maybe destroy a small moon with it, I guess. < 1254406467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local-to-HD partitions that are mounted atm seem to have 57.5 GB total space < 1254406474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my home drive's on a network share somewhere < 1254406481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an artificially small size < 1254406489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so disk isn't really very easy to measure < 1254406530 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about RAM? < 1254406543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: 2G, already mentioned. < 1254406547 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1254406557 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there, missed that line < 1254406781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that doesn't look like exactly 2G, but close enough < 1254406800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that number isn't even a mix of binary and decimal multipliers like 1000MiB would be < 1254406811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always some bits and pieces reserved for whatever. < 1254406815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it has integrated graphics or something stupid like that < 1254406821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just for the record; this work-workstation is a "Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz" (though running at 2 GHz), with 2 GB of memory and a 160G local disk, though with some four-five terabytes of network shares (mostly full); so ais523's box is certainly more powerful. I'd be lucky to manage to destroy a small Kuiper belt object with this. < 1254406901 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My desktop computer has about the same specs as that < 1254406960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one will probably come in useful for things like placing&routing (that is, taking a schematic and trying to lay it out in physical space) < 1254406974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's generally done by brute force or genetic algorithms, and takes hours as a result < 1254407012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the clock here seems wrong < 1254407014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're officially supposed to farm anything that takes more than a trivial amount of computation to our grid for computation. < 1254407016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's showing UTC? < 1254407039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% date \ Thu Oct 1 14:23:47 BST 2009 < 1254407044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's with that prompt? < 1254407056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% echo $SHELL \ /bham/bin/tcsh < 1254407057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AARGH < 1254407067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "BST" there, though. Maybe it's just wrong-wrong? < 1254407074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1254407077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what time is it actually? < 1254407088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thu Oct 1 13:24:43 UTC 2009 < 1254407092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that, UTC. < 1254407113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:24 is 14:23 BST < 1254407123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help, I've lost an hour somehow < 1254407128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was 2 pm here over an hour ago < 1254407137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now everyone's teling me it was only about 24 minutes? < 1254407182 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407183 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407183 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407183 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407183 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407184 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407185 0 :Jerry!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407185 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254407185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrrm, that recent freenode global notice makes it sound like a deliberate act. < 1254407186 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@81-89-105-25.blue.kundencontroller.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the notice? < 1254407211 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-188.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407217 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1254407231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ka-pow. That "very shortly" in there wasn't kidding. < 1254407249 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:25:30] [>> $*] [Global Notice] Hi all, unfortunately one of our former developers has left behind a memory leak in our ircd software which means we'll need to restart several ircds over the next few days. We're going to stagger it to reduce disruption, and the first round will be happening very shortly. Affected users for now will be about 1300. Apologies for the inconvenience! < 1254407251 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest19311 < 1254407253 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that notice < 1254407263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great notice < 1254407270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how they discovered the leak? < 1254407280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I went to a lecture at 2pm < 1254407285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lasted an hour, then it was 3pm < 1254407289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I went to my office < 1254407294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's half past 2 < 1254407298 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...:D < 1254407301 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive < 1254407304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: I'm thinking too much about Feather < 1254407304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, unfortunately one of our former developers has left behind a memory leak in our ircd software which means we'll need to restart several ircds over the next few days. We're going to stagger it to reduce disruption, and the first round will be happening very shortly. Affected users for now will be about 1300. Apologies for the inconvenience!" < 1254407332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second possibility: someone noticed my initial confusion < 1254407338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone decided to play along < 1254407344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people in my office could by seeing my screen < 1254407351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the people on IRC could be sending queries back and forth < 1254407364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third possibility: both the clock tower and the clock in the lecture room are wrong < 1254407368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the lecture actually started at 1 < 1254407381 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should go with #1 < 1254407385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a way which mislead me into thinking it started at 2 < 1254407406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the time has been moved to 1 for next week...) < 1254407438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 is appropriately paranoid. < 1254407561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Wikipedia says it's 13:30 UTC or thereabouts, and the page I checked that on hasn't been changed since August < 1254407575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I conclude that it is indeed about half past 2 my time < 1254407603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, theory that actually makes sense < 1254407610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believed that the lecture was at 2 < 1254407615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I arrived in good time, over an hour < 1254407623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I got there I saw that I only had about 10 minutes left < 1254407628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lecture was actually at 1 and I misremembered < 1254407642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I only looked at the clock's minute hand as I was in a hurry < 1254407644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no no, believing things that are wrong doesn't make sense, just ask ehird < 1254407656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1254407663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the lecture was actually starting at the time, this confirmed my belief that it was in fact 2pm < 1254407717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they did change the room the lecture was in, maybe they changed the time at the same time and I didn't notice < 1254407776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do you usually arrive an hour in advance? maybe your subconscious new anyhow >:) < 1254407786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knew < 1254408098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: square root of minus garfield o_O < 1254408156 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254408174 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch, we don't want no complex garfields < 1254408182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1254408187 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1254408199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye webirc < 1254408209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why I was too lazy to quit over there and used NickServ instead... < 1254408220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: too late < 1254408252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i've tried being lazy that way with irssi, doesn't work... < 1254408262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1254408272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because irssi reconnects < 1254408287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awful manners, reconnecting if you're killed or kicked < 1254408307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kicking's kind-of pointless if people don't get the hint... < 1254408335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nick collision though, irssi may not really know about them... < 1254408357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get nick-collided while online, it means you're either using your own nick and you did that deliberately (and so don't want a reconnection) < 1254408372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you're using someone else's nick and you should really get the hint that they don't want you to use it < 1254408373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but irssi has an alternative nick < 1254408399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or your using your own nick and someone else has tried to steal it. < 1254408412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ur/u're/ < 1254408436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd need to know your NickServ password to do that < 1254408441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, the correct solution isn't to log on again < 1254408442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In service-less networks, that is. < 1254408447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1254408461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, but the issue here is that if it was a _real_ nick collision then you wouldn't be able to reconnect because the other nick would still be there... < 1254408463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but logging on again would simply not work in that situation < 1254408467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1254408473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about ghosting here < 1254408492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since freenode's ghosting doesn't do that, irssi doesn't know what is happening < 1254408500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we've concluded, that in the only situations in which reconnecting after a nick collision actually works, you don't want to do it < 1254408533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite. there is also the issue of moving across netsplits < 1254408561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're moving deliberately, your nick isn't on the other side of the netsplit < 1254408570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to maintain two connections to be on /both/ sides of the netsplit < 1254408582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you wouldn't want both of them to autoconnect after that or there'd be two of you < 1254408583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm... < 1254408614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On IRCnet, earlier, the behaviour I remember when netsplit ends and a nick collision is found is to kill both sides. In which case you'd want to reconnect pretty fast to actually get your own nick back. < 1254408634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays it just forcibly renames both participants, I think. < 1254408728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I see the scenario you're talking about now < 1254408731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're on one side of a netsplit < 1254408737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who wants to steal your nick joins the other side < 1254408741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the netsplit ends < 1254408775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That's how nick- and channel-stealing used to be done. (The channel stealing by joining the channel on some server where it was empty, which made you gain ops there.) < 1254408842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, isn't the nick-collision kill is just your regular free-format "whoops, you died" error message? I'm not very sure there's some easily distinguishable and standardized "and don't come back" marker there. < 1254408963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a lot of people do have "auto-rejoin when kicked out of a channel" on, though, and even I can't really figure out a justification for that. < 1254409076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the trick is clearly to join the channel simultaneously at 1pm and 2pm < 1254409085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254409100 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254409646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1254415740 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.224.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254416118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning america < 1254416128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning october < 1254416187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi mailman reminders < 1254416202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:59:37 ehird will probably think I'm crazy but: I have a massively powerful desktop computer here, but I'm using it just to talk on IRC while my laptop does a fsck < 1254416208 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mid-autumn season here in korea < 1254416211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, funnily enough most people with good computers don't always max it out :) < 1254416214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:11:37 anyway, it seems to be a Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz < 1254416227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more powerful than I have; I have a two-core instead of 4 and it's only 2.16GHz < 1254416233 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Autumn_Festival < 1254416235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1254416236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, probably an earlier generation; this is from the first batch of Core 2s < 1254416242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it manages to feel like a corporate computer though < 1254416248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore unperformant no matter how powerful it is < 1254416251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because you can't mess with it? < 1254416255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it takes several minutes to boot into either Win7 or CentOS < 1254416259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which feels wrong < 1254416269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's very wrong < 1254416306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, it doesn't even have 2GiB of RAM? < 1254416306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 1.9GiB < 1254416310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's say 2GiB :P < 1254416319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere between 2GB and 2GiB < 1254416326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 2GiB is ridiculously little for a quad-core; I have 2.5GiB on this dual-core and it's sometimes limiting < 1254416341 0 :nooga!n=nooga@188.33.56.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1254416341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4GiB would be the minimum I'd put in a quad-core... < 1254416344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the delay on booting is due to network stuff, though < 1254416357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1254416357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever they did to it... < 1254416370 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1254416376 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i here? < 1254416378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1254416379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1254416380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:20:15 maybe it has integrated graphics or something stupid like that < 1254416383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost certainly < 1254416385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really stupid < 1254416396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you liked using the minimum spec computers you can? < 1254416402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not doing graphics work or gaming, ... < 1254416406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in a computer science department, because there's a nonzero chance the people here will want to do weird things with the GPU < 1254416411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1254416422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the intel drivers for linux are very stable, albeit very slow at the moment < 1254416425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and open source to boot < 1254416434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's probably a plus for you < 1254416444 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1254416453 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stable... yeah < 1254416460 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they get slower and slower < 1254416465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I've not heard of that < 1254416479 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254416480 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole compiz used to work normally < 1254416488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, once the kernel switches to the new graphics stack they should be quite fast < 1254416489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:22:40 this one will probably come in useful for things like placing&routing (that is, taking a schematic and trying to lay it out in physical space) < 1254416490 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment it's a slideshow < 1254416492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with 2GiB of ram! < 1254416496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: compiz is a piece of shit < 1254416533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% annoying flash for the sake of it, mostly ripped off from other OSs, and very very very unstable and slow < 1254416539 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1254416553 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are contraptions that fake OSX goodies < 1254416559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just turned on compositing in metacity; the window shadows sooth my soul a bit, I guess. < 1254416563 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like expo or that window magic < 1254416568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd call them more baddies :) < 1254416584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, I still think the taskbar is the best wnidow switcher yet invented < 1254416596 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using taskbar is pain for me ;[ < 1254416611 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got used to this fast switching < 1254416615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expose isn't much better if you're browsing mostly text web pages < 1254416625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh, I want this nondescript wall of text." < 1254416679 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm ;[ < 1254416703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:23:59 % date \ Thu Oct 1 14:23:47 BST 2009 < 1254416703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:24:04 also, what's with that prompt? < 1254416710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be zsh! it could be zsh! < 1254416711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:24:16 % echo $SHELL \ /bham/bin/tcsh < 1254416711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:24:17 AARGH < 1254416713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1254416721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash is on there, just not default < 1254416730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, weird place for binaries < 1254416740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:25:23 help, I've lost an hour somehow < 1254416740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:25:28 it was 2 pm here over an hour ago < 1254416749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make your computer not auto-DST < 1254416755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll remind you about it the next time it gives extra hours < 1254416755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it wasn't that < 1254416759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read on, and you'll see what happened < 1254416759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll get that extra hour back < 1254416764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nono, I'm trying to remedy the lost hour < 1254416768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1254416785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I meant that I'd gained an hour < 1254416787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly lost 23 < 1254416808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254416833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi all, unfortunately one of our former developers has left behind a memory leak in our ircd software" < 1254416837 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they release dumbuntu 9.10 final beta today :F < 1254416837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, freenode are incompetent < 1254416865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: dumbmostusableoperatingsystemenvironmentontheplanetcurrentlyexistinganditsalsoalmostentirelyfoss 9.10 beta < 1254416873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can make portmanteaus too < 1254416898 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gayphone < 1254416930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are different genders of iphone? < 1254416937 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1254416965 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm foss < 1254416984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distros freezing every package before release? moar like FOSSil amirite < 1254417084 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh i don't give a shit if something is foss or not < 1254417097 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like if something works :D < 1254417130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use FOSS as the be-all and end-all of things, but I consider being open source to be considerably enhanced functionality as I really enjoy messing around with code < 1254417137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: found the sound problem. Suspend issues < 1254417140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in FOSS, there are more members of the angry mob, and apple can't pull another one of its fucking "LET'S MAKE THINGS LESS CONSISTENT!!!" moves because everyone else says "fuck. no." < 1254417147 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ais523 said < 1254417160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's very rare to find a licence that is both open source, and legally lets me make and share changes, but yet is non-free < 1254417166 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1254417176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and code under such a licence probably wouldn't do very well anyway < 1254417193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer an all-BSD-or-more-lenient-license system, but most of the useful FOSS is GPL'd :P < 1254417214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the BSDs still use a bunch of GPL code, plus I can't deal with bullshit like the ports system < 1254417218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a compromise, but I know such a thing isn't legally feasible < 1254417227 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like building a higher idea aroud a hammer or shovel < 1254417230 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows software like that - the actual software is free, but the datasets are not
< 1254417248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is the point of a compromise? < 1254417258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foss works fine on its own without any restricted bullshit < 1254417279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, GPL except it doesn't lock you in to the GPL but only to licenses with the same general idea < 1254417287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uselses < 1254417289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*useless < 1254417297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the viral licenses without many differences are much the same < 1254417322 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make everything a beerware < 1254417329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of weak copyleft licence would be weird and interesting < 1254417333 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open beerware < 1254417333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it would be possible < 1254417345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I mean stronger than weak copyleft < 1254417349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but weaker than strong copyleft < 1254417351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"beerware: because I want to give you tools that help you make this program worse" < 1254417363 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it would be possible < 1254417378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be gpl-compatible < 1254417383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gpl doesn't have such a twisted-viral clause < 1254417395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I find the GPL and similar license to be stronger than I like, and BSD-likes to be weaker than I like < 1254417396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the compatible licenses would be pretty much rewordings < 1254417403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with BSD < 1254417409 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the license < 1254417412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1254417423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can make arbitrary licences, even commercial ones, GPL-compatible by adding a clause allowing derivative works to be licenced under the GPL < 1254417428 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too weak; I do not want to be giving my code away free to Apple < 1254417452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's only because you're an idiot with some sort of irrational hate of apple because steve jobs killed your dog or something < 1254417455 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the very least, I prefer a license with an attribution clause < 1254417457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1254417462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, BSD has an attribution clause < 1254417469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you actually........ read it < 1254417505 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not strong enough for me < 1254417516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get commercial software with attributions in the credits because there's BSD stuff in it < 1254417541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, knowing the motivations for such a license I'll avoid using or modifying any of your code, I guess < 1254417546 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how obout MIT? < 1254417549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least most people using the GPL just want to "spread the love" < 1254417552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: identical to BSD2 < 1254417558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is identical to BSD3 minus a redundant clause < 1254417604 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1254417612 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1254417624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:44:47 that's awful manners, reconnecting if you're killed or kicked < 1254417625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:45:07 kicking's kind-of pointless if people don't get the hint... < 1254417626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kicking IS pointlses < 1254417628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pointless < 1254417633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just say "stop that" < 1254417634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not kicking me < 1254417640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has as much effect and is less stupi < 1254417641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1254417643 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people listen to kicks < 1254417644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that I don't rejoin if I'm kicked < 1254417645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\nd// < 1254417647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for quite a whiel < 1254417648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*while < 1254417650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally hours < 1254417652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you could just say "stop that" < 1254417654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was obviously done as a joke < 1254417654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it has as much effect and is less stupi < 1254417678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, you're socially functioning enough to be able to be told whatever a kick tells you as words < 1254417683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kicks are only useful in a kickban < 1254417705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1254417720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen people kick idlers to stop them idling < 1254417722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ranks among the top most stupidest things I've ever heard ehird utter < 1254417734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to stop them getting the things said in there for their privlogs < 1254417736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so amazingly offended coppro < 1254417737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which strikes me as ridiculous < 1254417745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i care deeply about what you think about me < 1254417751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, less sarcastically, stfu < 1254417757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, the difference is a person listens to a statement, and their client to kicks < 1254417759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u < 1254417764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a kick is basically CTCP STOPTHAT < 1254417838 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254417850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ducks < 1254417855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should root really be running nautilus? < 1254417857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thanks < 1254417877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ducks ducks quack < 1254417892 0 :Ilari_!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1254417999 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254417999 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254417999 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254417999 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1254418012 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1254418164 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1254418388 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254418700 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1254421133 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254421544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a keyboard that looks like the xc spectrum < 1254421546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zx < 1254421763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could buy a Speccy from eBay, and then it's just a matter of a bit of electronics to get it act as a keyboard. < 1254421795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only has four non-alphanumeric keys. < 1254421808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enter, "caps shift" (I assume capslock), symbol shift and break space. < 1254421831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need space and enter, you need shift, so you only have one modifier key: caps shift (which is admittedly in a good position; a big key right to the left of Z) < 1254421847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the space is at the far-right of the bottom row, which is strange. and the shift just before that, and it's only as big as aletter < 1254421852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the actual layout, not so much < 1254421868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, somethiing not rubber. but it's so cute! < 1254421871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something < 1254421889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can replace the caps-shift key with something pressure-sensitive, and use that for all the conventional modifier keys, depending on how hard you press on it. < 1254421891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theoldcomputer.com/Libarary%27s/Emulation/Spectrum/zxspectrum_48k.jpg, http://www.playretro.co.uk/hardware/sinclair_zx_spectrum.jpg < 1254421899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks just like those tiny apple keyboards < 1254421905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could fit batteries in the top part < 1254421913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouch :D < 1254421924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gadgaard.org/gadget_past/sinclair_zx-spectrum_hr_1s.jpg it's also super-thin < 1254421934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say something disparaging about the "space in the corner" thing, but the three-line N900 keyboard is probably almost worse. < 1254421938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it just looks like apple made a netbook. except more colourful < 1254421951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, uh, with a wireless screen I guess < 1254421958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no mouse. < 1254421979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you have an n900? < 1254422001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I've just been looking at the reviews. :p < 1254422005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the rainbow colors aren't that far from the rainbow Apple logo. < 1254422019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254422024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what i was thinking < 1254422026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I played with one a bit in the Nokia "flagship store" in Helsinki. < 1254422041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's oh so tiny. < 1254422050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you know what? < 1254422057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should buy a speccy and make it into a laptop < 1254422099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a black bottom box thing with the connectors and a converter to use an LCD, stick it to the bottom of the spectrum, add an on/off switch to it and connect it to a display with minimal frame (painted black if necessary) < 1254422118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod the speccy case to have hinge ability, if needed modify the screen to do the same < 1254422132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is http://www.product-reviews.net/tag/zx-spectrum-48k/ < 1254422136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/It is // < 1254422162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you, you destroy my dreams :( < 1254422167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't you leave me in peace :( < 1254422174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it looks ugly. < 1254422176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sleek in the slightest. < 1254422179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides. < 1254422183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built using the Spectrum as a case and keyboard, then the Libretto for innards and the screen. The laptop runs Linux, has a 2-hour battery life and there is plans to emulate some ZX Spectrum games soon. < 1254422189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: NOT A SPECTRUM >:| < 1254422204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just ripped open the ZX and put the laptop inside, plus the keyboard stuff. < 1254422210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know. < 1254422217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, that screen looks suspiciously widescreen, so it wouldn't even be suitable for ZXy stuff. :P < 1254422221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just looking for the "zx spectrum" image search results, actually, not *only* trying to destroy your dreams. < 1254422234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254422244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up the dimensions of the speccy
< 1254422246 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first computer was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ZX_Spectrum%2B.jpg < 1254422257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that keyboard looks even worse than the rubber! < 1254422265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, depending on what kind of keys they are < 1254422277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if they're not rubber it's probably better < 1254422280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and might be better anyway, since they're bigger < 1254422291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"injection-moulded keyboard" sez http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum < 1254422314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's not really so cute, though. < 1254422319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The feel of the keys is quite unlike any other keyboard I've ever tried < 1254422325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1254422327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s it ... sort of like < 1254422328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1254422328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\n// < 1254422335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But indeed, not cute. < 1254422375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIZE / WEIGHT 23 x 14,4 x 3 cm / 550g < 1254422380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :550g; that's nice and light. < 1254422423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another "just keep the case, stick a computer inside" mod at http://programbytes48k.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/un-zx-spectrum-convertido-en-un-mini-pc-con-linux/ but at least that lets you do some eyeball size-comparisons between the speccy and "normal" hardware. < 1254422429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC they feel kinda mushy but still fairly resistant < 1254422445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, 23 wide and 14.4 high. Too lazy to work out the aspect ratio of the 256x192 screen (did it even have square pixels?) but I'm sure there's a screen with appropriate specs. < 1254422459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't really come up with anything to compare to :-/ < 1254422487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256:192 is the traditional 4:3, though I have no clue about Spectrum's pixel shape. < 1254422503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game Platforms: Sinclair ZX Spectrum < 1254422503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Sinclair ZX Spectrum was introduced in the early 80s. ... like the Apple ][ or the BBC had more pixels), and most of all, it had square pixels! ... < 1254422520 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pixels were shaped like this: ✡ < 1254422523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue is finding a display that's a multiple of 256x192 < 1254422535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2560x1920 < 1254422537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, 1024x768 works < 1254422546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make the pixels into 4x4 squares < 1254422552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that could be crisp. < 1254422570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :512x384 is x2; isn't that the Macintosh's resolution? < 1254422585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Without extensive messing-around, it's going to be horribly blurry anyway, since the display output of the spectrum is through a RF modulator, to generate a TV signal. < 1254422591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, 512x342. < 1254422607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but the blurriness is what it'd look like on a CRT, no? < 1254422611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least a reasonable approximation. < 1254422628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, but I'm not sure you're going to have to worry so much about getting the native display resolution "correct". < 1254422638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1254422642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying that 1024x768 is a particular good sizer. < 1254422687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The screen size would be for 4:3 23cm wide would be 23cm wide, 17.25cm high, right? < 1254422696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone work out the diagonal. :P < 1254422736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hmm; the speccy is 14.4cm deep, so you'd have 2.85cm you could stick on to store stuff.) < 1254422742 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't we have bots here that can calculate that? < 1254422745 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11.3" diagonal, about. < 1254422750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Drive, batteries, etc.) < 1254422755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " or cm? < 1254422762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"; I converteded. < 1254422769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's a nice enough diagonal size. < 1254422789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt(23^2+17.25^2)/2.54 < 1254422789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11.31889763779527559055 < 1254422789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder if you can get homebrew drives; it plugged into a tape recorder thing. < 1254422795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they have them for the C64. < 1254422804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would use a USB pendrive or that sort of internals; nice and small. < 1254422808 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove that x*x >= 0 where x<-R < 1254422825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could get quite a good battery life out of this; it can't use so much power. < 1254422848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all you need is the PSU, batteries, a drive and a TV->LCD converter in the extra depth part that the screen plugs into. < 1254422913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you feel like writing the software yourself, you could connect the drive to the expansion bus. < 1254422929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you could emulate a tape drive? < 1254422932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just audio, after all. < 1254422948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's software to generate the necessary sounds, yes. < 1254422978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And digitalise the sounds and write to disk, presumably; then you wouldn't need the expansion bus, just whatever ports you plugged the tape into. < 1254423033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 1. Go into oh-so-hip coffee shop. Step 2. Start up your Speccytop. Step 3. Play a game. Step 4. Program some trivial BASIC. (For steps 3 and 4, make sure people have a chance of seeing you.) Step 5. Run a program that produces a few beeps, and draws a huge "BATTERY LOW" on the screen. Step 6. Plug it in. (Make sure you sat down near a power outlet when entering.) Step 7. More games. Step 8. Unplug it, walk out. < 1254423037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 9. ??? < 1254423039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 10. Profit! < 1254423044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Step 9 is "post it on YouTube".) < 1254423045 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If x > 0, then x*x > x*0, so x*x > 0. If x = 0, then x*x >= 0. If x < 0, then (-x) > 0, so (-x)*(-x) > 0, so x*x > 0. < 1254423104 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what axioms did you use? < 1254423205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Of course since it's 2009 and all, you could use a nice 13" 1024x768 touchscreen as the display, and make the touch information available through the expansion bus (it's not like it makes sense to leave it completely unused, after all). < 1254423226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you can't see the cute dinky ZX. < 1254423249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it looks less retro. Also, even rubber keys are more tactile than touchscreens. :P < 1254423268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Besides, 1024x768? But then we'd have to have black borders around it to fit the keyboard below. < 1254423277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the touch could just be used by some few custom programs that benefit from it. < 1254423283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Are there even 4:3 touchscreens that big?) < 1254423288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah. Why 13" then? < 1254423306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, 11" I mean. Whoops. < 1254423307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure we'll get a ZX to browse the web or anything; this isn't the Contiki-lovin' C64.) < 1254423393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that would be nice. < 1254423409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That expansion bus - it could be plugged into a modem, yah? < 1254423417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure IRC, at least, is in the Speccy's abilities... < 1254423432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Modem being a 3G stick thing, naturally.) < 1254423448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With necessary converter.) < 1254423452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, one of the actual commercial blobs sold to plug in there has a RS232 serial port. < 1254423478 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1254423490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet; I'm sure there's a 3G-stick-to-Ethernet thing, so that'd be uber-trivial. < 1254423496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the software would be a bit of a bitch. < 1254423506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably best to use a teeny tiny microcontroller to do it. < 1254424342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/content/news/michael_vick_fails_to_inspire_team?utm_source=a-section x_x < 1254424685 0 :mycrofti1!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254424838 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1254424931 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-163-46-109.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254425050 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1254425164 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254426419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plug modem into ZX, then connect the phone line (somehow) to PC sound input/output. Then run software on PC which acts like a modem and forwards data to/from TUN device... Then configure PC to route packets to TUN device. :-> < 1254426491 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The modulation and demodulation of modem signaling at the rates those modems have probably won't be heavy task... < 1254426503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yees, well, I think not depending on a computer is a good task. < 1254426511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not task, feature. < 1254426518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*feature < 1254426584 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to, emulate PPP on the PC and let to give modem dial command on ZX. Then it just depends on PPP. < 1254426611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I gather it'll be an ethernet cable going into the bus. < 1254426620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "modem" will be a 3G mobile internet USB stick; not really very modem-y. < 1254426660 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How you plan to connect USB device to ZX? Some microcontroller? < 1254426685 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And additionally, since 3G stick is USB gadget, you need USB host controller. < 1254426696 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-166-171-123.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1254426728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: There apparently was sold an RS232<->ZX expansion bus thingy, so it should be a simple matter of using a microcontroller to connect the 3G stick and then get it talking Ethernet. < 1254426756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it goes into the ZX, which will run the slowest networking stack ever. < 1254426782 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, most of the USB microcontroller stuff is USB gadget side, not USB host controllers. < 1254426810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most FPGA stuff has USB ports; I assume, then, that there are a bunch of tiny microcontroller boards with USB ports. < 1254426815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, for example: gumstix, BeagleBoard. < 1254426847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeagleBoard is 3x3" is too big; ais523 says the gumstix are a bit fragile, i.e. not too sturdily built, but they're really tiny (smaller than a pack of gum) so they'd fit nicely. < 1254426874 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One question is: Are those USB ports host ports or gadget ports? < 1254426878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Gumstix_oconnor.JPG; the expansion board to the right has a USB port, I think. < 1254426893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Really have no clue. That right-side one looks complicated enough to be the more powerful of those, though. < 1254426950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those programmable thingsies do tend to support host mode, since it's really pretty much the point that you can plug USB devices into them. < 1254426988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, is the gadget mode just to plug the microcontroller into something and have it act as a USB device? < 1254427030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Nokia's previous tablets (N810 and whatever they were) also support host mode (so you can plug in, say, a keyboard) but the N900 at least officially doesn't. :/ < 1254427062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, a lot of Spectrum games use a joystick, don't they? < 1254427122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know about 3G modem stick programming; they implement the USB "CDC" class, but I think they usually speak PPP over whatever is there to do the actual IP traffic. < 1254427150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPPoE, then. < 1254427179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do you have Ethernet in all this? < 1254427229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, crap, I thought RS232 was that standard for Ethernet. < 1254427232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ports, that is < 1254427245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RJ45 in fact, or rather 8P8C. < 1254427263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, it's easy enough to do PPPoSerial, wouldn't it be? < 1254427303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. You just have to convert from serial to the USB serial stuff. (Or directly from whatever you want to do over the extension bus into USB serial transfers.) < 1254427322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And vice-versa. < 1254427355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange, this 3G stick I have shows up as two serial ports. < 1254427366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option 1-5:1.0: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected < 1254427366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb 1-5: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB0 < 1254427366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option 1-5:1.1: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected < 1254427366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb 1-5: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB1 < 1254427498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, now taking bets as to what sort of battery life it'll get. < 1254427505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet 4-5 hours. < 1254427507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe 3. < 1254427530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it's underpowered, but we didn't really have as much extremely-low-power-usage tech then. < 1254427604 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254427696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that you need to do something for the "disk drive" too, you might pick one of those SoC-style chips; you could connect a regular USB-interfaced flash drive and the USB 3G stick into the USB interface on it, and have the CPU part do both the spectrum tape drive emulation (those things generally have the necessary A/D and D/A converters to do audio) as well as whatever custom protocol you need over the extension bus (just wire some GPIO pins to it). < 1254427710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, I was about to say something about the disk. < 1254427741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no protocol required, I think; just do something like "read (large number)-fileno". < 1254427753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then "read (large number)" is a program that prints out filename<->number mappings or something. < 1254427766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it might be more convenient to do it over the bus. < 1254427814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's nothing more complex than converting bits to audio and vice versa, isn't it < 1254427817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1254427823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is it < 1254427838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you store the spectrum tape images in a suitably "raw" format, I guess it's pretty simple. < 1254427865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ZX *did* have a joystick, right? < 1254427875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be useful for gopher-browsing (I'm sure it can handle *that*) < 1254427894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, not really, considering the list-of-links format. Still. < 1254427914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very familiar with the device, but the WP page mentions a joystick interface as one of the things you could plug in the extension bus. < 1254427948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the connectors on that thing are limited to audio-in/audio-out (for the tape), the TV-compatible video out, and then the extension bus for everything else. < 1254427963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure some games used a joystick. < 1254427972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, could do that as a trackball type thing. < 1254427975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ZX Interface 1 add-on module included 8 KB of ROM, an RS-232 serial port, a proprietary LAN interface (called ZX Net), and an interface for the connection of up to eight ZX Microdrives – somewhat unreliable but speedy tape-loop cartridge storage devices released in July 1983." < 1254427986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1254427994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ZX Net" sounds so very popular. < 1254427995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt the disk drive, it'd clearly be far more retro if we used real tapes. < 1254428028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can carry an old WalkMan around to go with your Port-a-Spectrum. < 1254428047 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1254428052 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1254428066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1254428074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're discussing making the ZX Spectrum into a laptop. < 1254428082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, with the tape drive included, of course < 1254428119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I don't know; in one sense it would be somehow inherently funny to have a tied-to-it-with-a-cable add-on like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SONY_WM-D6C.jpg < 1254428121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the bit near the screen where the extra stuff is, a horizontal (i.e. not sticking up) tape slot, and some buttons depthwards (i.e., going further to the screen, to save space) < 1254428127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even says "professional" there. < 1254428135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: True. :P < 1254428138 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... didn't someone make a speccy laptop in the 90's? < 1254428167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. Two people have ripped out the innards and put a PC in there; one person did it to a laptop to have a screen and such. < 1254428191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know of any actual Spectrum laptops. Besides, we're adding 3G internet and a USB disk-based tape drive to this thing. < 1254428213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus an 11" 1024x768 screen! Admittedly only displaying 256x192. < 1254428230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an approximate metric buttload of spectrum clones, it does not sound completely unlikely that someone has made a portable model too. < 1254428231 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1254428266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only counts if it retains the same general form factor of the original speccy, imo. :P < 1254428269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Cute. < 1254428273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1254428318 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Sam Coupe, and a Speccy +3 < 1254428348 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't I just connect my computer directly to the cable modem? < 1254428361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The +3 makes it sound like a roguelike/RPG weapon. < 1254428376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Because then you'd have to do routing in software. < 1254428393 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't give two **** about the other computers on the network < 1254428404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you fail < 1254428408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what routing is < 1254428432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand why all the speccies after the first were so ugly. < 1254428450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, http://www.theoldcomputer.com/Libarary%27s/Emulation/Spectrum/zxspectrum_48k.jpg vs http://www.old-computers.com/MUSEUM/photos/sinclair_zx-spectrum-p3_1.jpg < 1254428475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, generally the cable modems I've seen have supported a reasonably "direct" USB connection. (Though I don't know whether they pretend to be a standard USB Ethernet device, or just include some custom drivers.) < 1254428515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's winmodems. < 1254428524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cable modems generally plug into routers. :P < 1254428528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, cable modems. < 1254428539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Aight then. < 1254428544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually have cable. < 1254428583 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer a Jupiter Ace laptop. :-) < 1254428607 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spectrum had 3" or 3.5" disk drives. It's be handy to include those on the portable. < 1254428608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The modems rented by the local cable TV company here -- well, some models, at least -- do support connecting over USB; not sure how widespread that is. (And it's also really buggy; they do recommend doing it over Ethernet if the computer in question has a network interface.) < 1254428679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: But it already has a wonderful USB-stick-based solid state drive thingy! < 1254428690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even attempt to play a song you put on it. :P < 1254428694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It'll emulate the tape drive.) < 1254428715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not sure the speccy actually has audio. < 1254428722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a beeper. < 1254428726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very fancy. < 1254428730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1254428734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could decode the wav and record it to the tape as audio; that basically counts as playing. < 1254428740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it'd just be saved as garbage. < 1254428792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the beeper will have to be neutered and redirected to the microcontroller so it can have a headphone slot. < 1254428801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Falling back to the beeper, of course. < 1254428805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if that's too hard, a mini speaker. < 1254429022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should port Maniac Mansion to the speccy. :P < 1254429100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/MSWindows Oh gawd. < 1254429220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm pretty sure the speccy has enough power to talk PPP over serial, get TCP/IP working, get DNS working, connect to Freenode and chat on IRC. < 1254429317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, someone's broken the udev on my desktop. It has / on /dev/md0, and /dev/md0 gets auto-assembled just fine, but udev doesn't feel like making the /dev/disk/by-uuid/xxx link, so since the grub config uses (by default) the "root=UUID=xxx" form, it doesn't find the root fs to mount. < 1254429363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Anyone agree that the speccy could do that? < 1254429365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/)/ < 1254429460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it sounds perfectly reasonable. Though I wouldn't expect too high data transfer rates. < 1254429479 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to watch The Wall
< 1254429484 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a 25MHz Z80 upgrade available for the Speccy, and a 4MB memory board < 1254429533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IRC would work fine at 1KiB/s. < 1254429538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's two full-length IRC lines. < 1254429554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, even 512B/s; full-length lines aren't so common. < 1254429564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not less, for a semi-popular channel. < 1254429584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the screen res it'd be best for places like here, and would work fine with ~300B/s. < 1254429588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Eh. < 1254429590 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a portable spectrum, you could just use ZXDS for the Nintendo DS. :-) < 1254429595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs more than 48KiB of RAM? < 1254429612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the actual Speccy is so cute. And the DS is so not retro. :P Also, rael keyboard. < 1254429614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*real < 1254429680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C64 with 64KiB can run a full graphical multitasking OS with a web browser (Contiki), and it only has a 1.02MHz 6510 (or 0.985MHz in PAL regions), so I'm sure a Z80 at 3.5MHz with 48KiB of RAM can handle it. < 1254429691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it = IRC) < 1254430042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C64 has rather more graphical prowess, though. < 1254430043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also musical. < 1254430102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less portable form-factor, since I guess you'd want to have exactly the original, iconic shape. < 1254430133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's plenty of C64 laptops. < 1254430140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ZX is far cuter. < 1254430149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's more nettop-like. < 1254430150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, more of an underdog. < 1254430198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: don't you mean netbook? < 1254430209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nettop is like that silly Linutop thing. < 1254430215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1254430220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know the modern lingo. < 1254430235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I have known that distinction. < 1254430236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254430250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it'll certainly be a nettop, but I doubt that includes HTML over HTTP. < 1254430254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, HTTP is fine; HTML less so. < 1254430261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it can probably render simple stuff. < 1254430278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read http://robotwisdom.com/ on your ZX Spectrum today! < 1254430337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, robot wisdom is dead? < 1254430341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last updated 2006. < 1254430342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Last < 1254430365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make a portable Altair 8800, but that'd just be strange. (I guess in that particular case you'd just run an emulator on a DS or something.) < 1254430378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flippin' switches 'n shit. < 1254430406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it'd attract some attention in a cafe. < 1254430436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is that a bomb? POLICE! POLICE! HE'S GOT A BOMB! AAAAAAAA!" < 1254430448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No, no, it's an Altair-" "-an Altair bomb, riiight. *taze*" < 1254430456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next day it's on reddit! < 1254430463 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an Esoteric language for the DS :-) Someone implemented OISC < 1254430529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah - "# Robot Wisdom Weblog, since Oct06 continued as part of the Robot Wisdom auxiliary, since Aug09 continued as part of one-bit RWx-auxiliary blog" < 1254430551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "one-bit" thing seems to be a shared google reader items that looks like a link blog. < 1254430553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14569541748422553908 < 1254430590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's rather less simple HTML-wise. < 1254430733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://c64vsspectrum.com/ Can't we all just get along? < 1254430770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally no fair, he just compares them to see which has better games. NO. FAIR. < 1254430796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't even like Manic Miner: http://c64vsspectrum.com/M.html < 1254431309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm pretty sure that Contiki's web browser is about on par with Lynx. So, yeah, rather basic. :) < 1254431362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Contiki-avr.png < 1254431364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does seem so. < 1254431381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am at least imagining that you'd be basically running apps about on par with Contiki's on this, if you don't bother porting the whole of Contiki) < 1254431386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That screenshot there, apart frmo the high resolution, can totally be reproduced with a speccy, I'm sure.) < 1254431390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apart from "processes". < 1254431401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure, but Contiki doesn't exactly do much. < 1254431415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The display is kinda the bottleneck. < 1254431417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. It's one of the simplest OSes I know of. < 1254431420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much you can fit. < 1254431442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, if you draw your own text you should be able to fit a few lines of IRC. < 1254431457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GUI is an optional feature of Contiki. < 1254431470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that. < 1254431475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1254431488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think you can have the browser without the GUI. < 1254431620 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1254431968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a fun idea! < 1254431977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Windows 95 work in VirtualBox? Let's find out! To the piratescope! < 1254432138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a win98 VirtualBox box somewhere; don't think I've tried plain '95. < 1254432145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I install via floppy or CD? < 1254432151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD is less annoying, but floppy is more lollerific. < 1254432161 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tested it in Virtual PC, I don't know about VirtualBox < 1254432186 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fun complaining to people that their sites are broken in IE 3.0 < 1254432196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254432224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, VirtualBox's UI is appealing on Linux. < 1254432237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My day just keeps getting better and better. < 1254432290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VirtualBox uses Qt 4. And it doesn't suck horribly. < 1254432295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice property, that. < 1254432307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vomits at VMware Server for a bit
< 1254432317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; Qt 4's font rendering hints too much vs GTK here, but otherwise it looks identical. < 1254432322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QGtkStyle isn't horrific, then. < 1254432344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many megs do you think I should use? < 1254432353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32? < 1254432363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd give it a whole two gigs, but really now. < 1254432396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640 kB. < 1254432409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, that's enough for everyone. < 1254432420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95? Give it 64 MB and watch it never, ever swap. < 1254432430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what VirtualBox recommended, but that's so... unrealistic... < 1254432433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you use loadlin on it) < 1254432455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decent amount of 95 machines had 64 MB of RAM. < 1254432466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it not do the same with 32? < 1254432474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About as well. < 1254432483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few things would actually use the extra RAM. < 1254432489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, 64 it is. It's just that the minimum was 4MiB, and yeah, that's really sub-optimal, but... < 1254432506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, this is going to run with 2.16GHz of Core 2 power; it's not gonna be realistic. < 1254432513 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1254432519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VMs are such fun; every OS you can imagine in a few clix. < 1254432525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. VMs + piracy. < 1254432550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 2GB HD should do nicely, methinks? < 1254432565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly. < 1254432581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll use a CD to avoid changing all the damn floppies. < 1254432586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My old 95 machine had 8 GB, but it was quite silly. And I don't think that ever got used. < 1254432609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# < 1254432609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Win95.iso 73 Mb" < 1254432609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1254432609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# Microsoft Windows 95 operating system.iso 581 Mb" < 1254432609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1254432611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1254432612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# < 1254432613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * msw95-repoc.iso 589 Mb" < 1254432637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an odd disrepancy. < 1254432643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*discrepancy < 1254432705 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1254432707 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST < 1254432708 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRITE < 1254432710 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CODE!!!! < 1254432711 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAA < 1254432712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the layotu of the edit-VM page is much better on Linux. < 1254432714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Fuck off. < 1254432716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*layout < 1254432735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hey, I'm refining my "be crass without passing my conscious subsystem" code. Sorry about that nooga.) < 1254432753 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1254432763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe I really typed that automatically. < 1254432809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what do you think is the difference between the 73 and 589 versions? < 1254432812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one might be fake... < 1254432820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm going to assume the 73 is fake. < 1254432832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that Microsoft filled that disc. < 1254432836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but consider that 95 fit on a few floppies. < 1254432838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay. < 1254432858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :581 vs 589... well, the # Microsoft Windows 95 operating system also comse with an ISO burner, serial keys for the burner, and a "READ ME". < 1254432860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll go with that one. < 1254432863 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :msn client is heavier than w95 < 1254432869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irritating that I have to download so much; oh well. < 1254432918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 hours remaining. < 1254432920 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget to play Hover < 1254432923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that speeds up. < 1254432923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it did. < 1254432929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over 200KiB/s. < 1254432930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than an hour remaining! < 1254432931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Windows 95 CD came with more features and a metric fuckton of videos on the disc... < 1254432956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why the fuck did it have music videos, anyways?) < 1254432989 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can create x-rays using my hands :D < 1254432992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tom.whitwell.googlepages.com/mssound1.mp3 < 1254433010 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cto http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/10/video-the-scotc/ < 1254433015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds so much better than the 98 version... Yay Eno. < 1254433071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I also like Windows 2000. Nobody really appreciates it. < 1254433075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if that's not 95 OSR/1 or greater, then you'll need to get a copy of IE to get a TCP/IP stack. < 1254433078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 95 didn't have serial keys, did it? < 1254433086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I recall. < 1254433107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh; do you think in the 589 one, the extra 8 is OSR/1? < 1254433113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it shrunk. < 1254433122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Maybe*? < 1254433142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No matter; this one is the fastest. < 1254433148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one doesn't have any seeders, just 14 leechers. < 1254433152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn't going to, you know, work. < 1254433161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSR/2.1 and OSR/2.5 added the USB stack and FAT32... < 1254433192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT 16 is perfectly acceptable; I only have a 2 gig drive in this thing. :P < 1254433195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I do appreciate the 2k. I stuck with it a long time on that secondary Windows box. < 1254433217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hooray for you, then. < 1254433232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also added MMX support and 686 support with that. < 1254433245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMX? Psht, I have 3DNow!. < 1254433265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says on the little sticker. Pentium III MMX+ 3DNow! < 1254433274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MMX < 1254433278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3DNow! is a superet of MMX. ;) < 1254433287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I have more than MMX, you see. :P < 1254433287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A superego of MMX. < 1254433293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Superid. < 1254433310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you accidentally the s < 1254433320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, yes I. < 1254433326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/PentiumMMX-presslogo.jpg < 1254433330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See it! Hear it! Experience it! < 1254433373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I'm uploading this torrent at 0KiB/s. < 1254433376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope they don't mind. :P < 1254433378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nice ratio of 0. < 1254433386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So strange that torrents actually work. < 1254433411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I should try 4.3BSD. < 1254433426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my brain didn't register that I had a VM and could download operating systems until a few minutes ago... < 1254433480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a very shiny sticker that came with the Pentium 233 MMX I bought, though I guess it was a bit less colorful. < 1254433516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet my father's workstation-tower-sized Pentium 4 powerhouse is still running Windows Me. < 1254433525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing was ridiculously stable. < 1254433529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It never crashed once, apparently. < 1254433538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any program. < 1254433548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's really weird, given Me's reputation; and even my own experiences with it. < 1254433564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, exactly. I was using Me at the time too and it was unstable as fuck. But then my hardware was really bad. < 1254433569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must have befriended the magical Windows Me fairy. < 1254433578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those workstation towers are so tall. < 1254433607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The floor of that room is filled with cables and everything around the computer is musical equipment; quite a lot of it. It's quite the sight. < 1254433629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen it in years, though, so I don't know if it's actually still like that. < 1254433634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the p233MMX was close to the fastest thing on the "regular" consumer market when I bought it; such speed, such power; it was really quite a "rush". (Is that the word?) < 1254433652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pentium H: for when you need your hit. < 1254433654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it lasted very long before the Pentium II came along. < 1254433872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, VirtualBox doesn't seem to have an "emulate a floppy drive with nothing in it" option. < 1254433908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1997-08 for the "Tillamook" 233 MHz MMX; one of the last models, though apparently they did release 266 MHz and 300 MHz variants in 1998 and 1999. And the 333 MHz Pentium II in January 1998; so it was fast for a whole 4-5 months before becoming obsolete. < 1254433914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still measured line width in micrometres instead of nanometres back then. (Okay, so 0.25 µm is 250 nm, but it's still reported in µm in Wikipedia.) < 1254433915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone knwo how to do that? < 1254433926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1254433973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do it with VBoxManage, at least. < 1254433995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like "VBoxManage modifyvm --floppy empty" < 1254434016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what it then looks like in the GUI. < 1254434040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] Mount Floppy Drive < 1254434050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which apparently indeed does not distinguish between "empty" and "disabled". (I'm not sure which one it does if you just uncheck the mount floppy drive box.) < 1254434050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ( ) Host Floppy Drive < 1254434060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ ] < 1254434066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ( ) Image File < 1254434076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ ] < 1254434081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1254434082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ ] < 1254434091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gives an error. < 1254434098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On the Floppy page, Floppy image file is not selected" < 1254434210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"40 minutes remaining"; that got worse. < 1254434218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite... Dumb. < 1254434271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254434319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of Windows 95, you'll probably want to the same thing that was recommended for win98 guests -- to run rain20 from http://www.benchtest.com/downloads/index.html since win95 won't automatically execute HLT instructions when idle, causing quite a lot of CPU use for VirtualBox. < 1254434329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally the verb, too. < 1254434357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, who cares. :P < 1254434359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I might. < 1254434383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Windows 95 always uses all your CPU? < 1254434390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; energy saving is for hippies. < 1254434407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those chips must have run hot. < 1254434437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one for DOS too somewhere; it was really quite a good idea for VirtualBox-enabled DOS use, since 100 % CPU load makes the fans in this box a lot more audible. < 1254434472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosidle210.zip, right. < 1254434478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell if 100% CPU is being used by ear, but I normally don't *notice* it for a few minutes. < 1254434484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite sublte. < 1254434484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*subtle < 1254434488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can hear them spin down once I stop it, though. < 1254434548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is far from subtle; will have to consider the noise side a bit more when the next hardware upgrade year rolls along. < 1254434611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Exception: FreeDOS. < 1254434627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... I think FreeDOS just already includes that, though.) < 1254434633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was lucky of me to jump on the Core 2 bandwagon so quickly; this December 2006 machine is still nice and fast. < 1254434648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all I've done is upgrade the ram from 1GiB to 2.5GiB; I should have got it with 2GiB in the first place. < 1254434665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was December 2008, so even the 1GiB lasted me fine for quite a while. < 1254434676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I only upgraded from Tiger to Leopard in February... 2009. < 1254434680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It came out late 2007.) < 1254434705 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-08-07 HLT in the DOS idle loop in FreeDOS SVN. Or some-such. < 1254434949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: square root of minus garfield o_O <-- yeah < 1254434997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm, VirtualBox doesn't seem to have an "emulate a floppy drive with nothing in it" option. <-- eh? < 1254435005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean, eh? < 1254435007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if no floppy is inserted there will be no floppy? < 1254435014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No floppy in the drive. < 1254435018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, eject the floppy < 1254435018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The drive certainly responds to stuff, though. < 1254435029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In the VM edit < 1254435032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when booted < 1254435049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want this new VM to have a floppy drive. I do not want it to have any floppies in. < 1254435057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um my laptop is packed down in my backpack for tomorrow so can't check. No virtualbox on desktop < 1254435073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm iirc there is always a floppy drive < 1254435083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there? Aight then. < 1254435087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *IIRC* < 1254435101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so double check by booting some iso in it and see if it is true < 1254435105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No biggie. I doubt 95 will install to a floppiless system anyway, so we'll see. < 1254435125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets the alarm clock for 06:15
< 1254435133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy person. < 1254435152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even DOS will run just fine on a floppiless system... < 1254435161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay. < 1254435178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine Windows being *less* flexible. < 1254435179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Someone should make a bloated Microsoft DOS "distro" with a ton of stuff, and have it fill up a CD. :P) < 1254435192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Windows have TSR? < 1254435194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Crazy person. <-- about 06:15? < 1254435194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIDN'T THINK SO < 1254435208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Windows let you access all the hardware directly without any setup? < 1254435208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIDN'T THINK SO < 1254435213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1254435246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes and yes. (note: Windows non-NT was quite screwy) < 1254435257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. :P < 1254435265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh, just need to remove the frozen water from the car windows tomorrow before leaving. Temperature during night is less than 0 C after all.. < 1254435285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I would set the clock for 06:20 < 1254435325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy. Person. < 1254435338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running DOS programs in Windows was not just mere DOS emulation. If you tried accessing the hardware directly from the DOS box, then DOS would go full-screen. ... Meaning that the Windows kernel would start acting as a TSR for interrupt handling and do nothing else. < 1254435349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yah, I know that much. < 1254435352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why Alley Cat works! < 1254435353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254435382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And TSRs would still terminate and stay resident. < 1254435385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. Crazy uni with stuff starting at 08:00 (and I need to commute...) < 1254435411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is that how loadlin works? Windows steps out, loadlin dismantles all of DOS while it's not running (and thus Windows) and then loads Linux, now having complete control over the hardware like a bootloader? < 1254435411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I seem to recall that in order to access CDs with DOS programs, you had to use mscdex, even in Windows...) < 1254435416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1254435420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254435456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could only be cooler if it saved the Windows currently running to the Linux disk, so you could have "Linux" and "Windows" icons on the opposite desktops. < 1254435457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So is that how loadlin works? Windows steps out, loadlin dismantles all of DOS while it's not running (and thus Windows) and then loads Linux, now having complete control over the hardware like a bootloader? <-- hm... loadlin worked inside win9x? < 1254435463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1254435468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because DOS programs did. < 1254435490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could only be cooler if it saved the Windows currently running to the Linux disk, so you could have "Linux" and "Windows" icons on the opposite desktops. <-- the linux -> windows way could maybe be done with kexec actually < 1254435538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd basically be a case of "kexec a kernel that wipes all traces of Linux and then bootloads Windows". < 1254435543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saving state though... < 1254435549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be great. < 1254435557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like fast user switching, except OSs, not users, and slow. :P < 1254435559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah... you could make it suspend to disk for linux at least < 1254435571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about windows < 1254435578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows can hibernate, but the problem is resuming. < 1254435585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1254435585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make loadlin suspend Windows to disk itself. < 1254435591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's the idea. < 1254435594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it'd work < 1254435595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes... < 1254435596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1254435597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is < 1254435599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loadwin < 1254435605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1254435607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it'd work < 1254435615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be quite slow, but it'd work fine < 1254435615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd just be a kexec call. < 1254435621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1254435626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be so much fun. < 1254435634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for linux the best way is s2disk. I think loadlin could even boot from resume even < 1254435637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quicker than dual-booting, at least. :P < 1254435642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err scratch one "even" < 1254435653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: loadlin just loads the kernel like normal, so it can do the regular resume stuff. < 1254435675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, as long as you can provide a command line like resume=/dev/sda5 or whatever < 1254435681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1254435694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION have never used loadlin
< 1254435699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee, I should do this with my Win95 setup once it's installed. < 1254435705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *has >_< < 1254435717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I don't has >_< < 1254435720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loadlin takes as its first argument the vmlinuz and the rest is the kernel command line. < 1254435722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not have, has. < 1254435732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: loadlin could theoretically boot, say, FreeBSD, right? < 1254435733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254435739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and parsed as LILO does with regard to vga=) < 1254435741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1254435743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, GRUB can, and it's not too far off. < 1254435767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, you could modify loadlin to run GRUB; all it does is dismantle the DOS around it, and then you're in boot-up land. < 1254435776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If you patched it to handle BSD kernels or made a small stub "kernel" in Linux kernel format to load FreeBSD, sure. < 1254435779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I very much doubt this just does a regular "load multiboot kernel" kind of thing < 1254435800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It does a regular "load Linux kernel" kind of thing. < 1254435808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just modify it to load GRUB with a specified configuration file to immediately load the other OS. < 1254435820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's also quite doable. < 1254435820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well is that "load any multiboot kernel" or "load just linux kernel"? < 1254435821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila, you can switch to any OS without rebooting. < 1254435833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then writing an equivalent for Linux and BSDs would be trivial. < 1254435836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This'd be great, actually. < 1254435838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Linux uses its own kernel format. < 1254435843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bzImage. < 1254435858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's kinda hard to hibernate, then boot into another OS, with today's OSs. < 1254435867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? I thought grub just loaded multiboot ELF images? < 1254435871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this'd save a few seconds. < 1254435872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254435878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. GRUB *also* supports that. < 1254435886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, aha < 1254435897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, bsd will be harder for loadlin < 1254435898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, Xen is the only mainstream thing to use Multiboot. < 1254435902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you hacked up all your OSs to boot in like 15 seconds (Ubuntu is getting 5 seconds on an SSD for 9.10, so)... < 1254435906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instant OS switching! < 1254435923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Multiboot is about the only useful thing to come out of HURD yet. < 1254435933 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would love instant OS switching
< 1254435950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the "load any from win9x" would be easy. and "load any from linux" too (kexec). But for BSD hm...? < 1254435952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, VMware's hypervisor also uses it. < 1254435957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure BSD has some sort of kexec thing. < 1254435970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, lots of small OS projects do too < 1254435976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You could even set up IRC clients on both; they'd reconnect when resumed, so you'd only ever lose IRC connection for, oh, 20-30 seconds. < 1254435976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mainstream though < 1254435993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do what? < 1254435996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiboot? < 1254436006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1254436013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiboot is like 5-10 lines of assembly. If you're C-friendly (and thus can use GRUB), it's the obvious thing to do. < 1254436031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C-friendly (and thus can use GRUB)" <--- eh? < 1254436043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB is written in C. < 1254436061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're writing, e.g. ehirdOS, you won't want to use it. < 1254436066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Multiboot is pretty much written assuming you'll be writing the kernel entry point in C. < 1254436072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1254436076 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would ehirdOS be written in? < 1254436081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, assembly. < 1254436082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Passing on to C. < 1254436089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, yeah. < 1254436090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just because you don't write in a language yourself doesn't mean you feel unable to use a program written in said lang does it? < 1254436092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Assembly, maybe Forth, and Lisp or Smalltalk. < 1254436109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd explain why using GRUB would be The Wrong Thing, but it'd be tedious because, you know, it's you. < 1254436116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think he wants to deal with details like C structs. < 1254436116 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to learn Lisp < 1254436130 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I tried once, and proceeded to forget absolutely everything < 1254436136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same reason I wouldn't use freetype or anything else C. < 1254436140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GRUB passes the entry point a C struct with a bunch of pointers in it...) < 1254436147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm fair enough. A bit of a pain to construct an ELF header manually I guess < 1254436152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because C is The Wrong Thing, and it infects things using it with The Wrong Things. < 1254436162 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dogmatic much? < 1254436173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254436178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Sgeo_; I've just used C software a lot. < 1254436203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it seems "natural" for someone used to the idiocies of low level programming, redundant memory/disk address spaces and oh-so-much more. < 1254436218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't multiboot give you 32-bit at entry? < 1254436226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not particularly interested in rebutting that at the moment, having more fun things to do like try Windows 95. < 1254436228 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I learn Common Lisp, or Scheme? < 1254436228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1254436230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making it less of a pain to set up protected mode < 1254436238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no. < 1254436239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe. < 1254436247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does multiboot work on non-x86 then? < 1254436253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Start with R5RS (not R6RS; just don't use PLT Scheme and you'll be fine) Scheme. < 1254436276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: If you hate it because you're a stupid loser poopyhead, try Common Lisp (implementation SBCL). < 1254436280 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no clue what any of that means
< 1254436285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Multiboot 2.0 which will support that doesn't exist yet. < 1254436287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not surprising. < 1254436288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, for example, 16-bit platforms? Or ones that start natively in 64-bit mode? Or something strange like IA64 < 1254436296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hah < 1254436299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB is x86 only. < 1254436302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Multiboot is x86 only. < 1254436318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB 2.0 is portable, as is Multiboot 2.0. < 1254436321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are works in progress. < 1254436329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are vaporware < 1254436346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grub 1 has been "dead" for like 10 years < 1254436347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grub 2 is the best thing ever hur hur garbleblargle < 1254436347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Win95 downloaderated. < 1254436348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB 2 is in beta ATM. < 1254436350 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX was considered vaporware once < 1254436358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now should I be rude and cut of this seeding. < 1254436360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*off < 1254436380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and works just fine) < 1254436429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grub 1 stagnated because of grub 2 < 1254436442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1254436477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As we all know,Microsoft has never released the Windows 95 operating system which was bootable from the CD-ROM disk and which you could install by using just the CD-ROM disk.You would always < 1254436477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need those boot diskettes to boot from the Microsoft Windows 95 CD-ROM disk and to install Microsoft Windows 95 operating system..." < 1254436478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was unaware. < 1254436506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's a patched .iso to handle that for you. < 1254436508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How convenient. < 1254436518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-The size of the hard disk drive on which you are planning to install Microsoft Windows 95 < 1254436519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : operating system must be at least 9 GB in size < 1254436519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1254436553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, this should do. < 1254436554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boot! < 1254436577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Starting Windows 98". This thing uses 98 to boot 95. < 1254436588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1254436606 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1254436607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 GB? O_o < 1254436608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah. < 1254436622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I need to do X:\SETUP.EXE and it'll start the Windows 95 installer. < 1254436626 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing itself fits in around 200 MB < 1254436630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at a Windows 98 DOS prompt :P < 1254436641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used that Oak Corporation CD driver; I remember that! < 1254436662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I need to make an MS-DOS boot partition to set up Windows. < 1254436680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have fdisk! So yay. < 1254436685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your computer has a disk larger than 512 MB". Yes, turn on large disk support. :P < 1254436701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently some versions of Windows 95 aren't compatible with that. < 1254436711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it just means "use FAT32". < 1254436712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame. < 1254436759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oak Technology, not corporation. < 1254436817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It formatted the 2GB C: in less than a second. :P < 1254436858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoorah! http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-10/windows-95.png < 1254436897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if the 30-60 min estimate is accurate < 1254436904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not. < 1254436918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll set a stopwatch off once I get to the actual installing meat. < 1254436931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, uh, just note down the time. < 1254436942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I accept the license agreement. Not. :P < 1254436957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, it lets you install somewhere else than C:\WINDOWS. < 1254436978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it has its own Portable install configuration for laptops. < 1254436997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It didn't have serials. But it had a Certificate of Authenticity. < 1254437001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is just a smaller serial key. < 1254437053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Try this < 1254437053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22901-oem-0009093-18985" < 1254437053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, Google. < 1254437079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aand it works. < 1254437081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaand < 1254437106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Windows 95, I have both a Network Adapter and a Sound, MIDI, or Video Capture Card. < 1254437118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pointer flickers a remarkable amount. < 1254437132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:45 < 1254437136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started checking for hardware < 1254437158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a hands-off part, so I'll include this in the total and just add a bit to account for them adding user input to the time.) < 1254437215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1254437226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's 47 now. < 1254437228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So about two minutes. < 1254437245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, a startup disk to start my computer and run diagnostic programs if I have trouble starting Windows! < 1254437246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No thanks. < 1254437257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:47 < 1254437260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying files. < 1254437265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17% already < 1254437267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27% < 1254437273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this is going to be quick. :P < 1254437287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's flashing all these marketing screens, but I can barely read two paragraphs before they flicker away. < 1254437298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, they had Microsoft Exchange then. < 1254437301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And The Microsoft Network was an ISP. < 1254437311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 to 60 min = 1x to 8x CD-ROM drive? < 1254437315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1254437316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1254437319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's copied the files. < 1254437327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that took under two minutes. < 1254437334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now going to restart and finish Setup! < 1254437355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; it thinks I have a floppy in the drive because the startup disk thing is emulating one. < 1254437358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's okay, man. Restart. < 1254437378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh, was that a boot failure? < 1254437381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just hard-reset. < 1254437392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1254437395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hands-off now. < 1254437401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Getting ready to run Windows 95 for the first time..." < 1254437407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we're back in Setup, still hands off. < 1254437427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not now. < 1254437427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to provide the computer and workgroup names for the network! < 1254437442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer name: Eno < 1254437450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Workgroup: 95 < 1254437467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Description: Windows 95 < 1254437477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it wants the Windows 95 CD-ROM. < 1254437482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope the boot-up CD-ROM suffices. < 1254437506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I just need to locate the Windows 95 files on it. < 1254437512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without a file browser, sigh. < 1254437515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mounts the iso
< 1254437538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X:\WIN95\. Simple enough. Why is it X:\? < 1254437559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1254437566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't find netapi.dll, i.e. the networking stuff. < 1254437570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to download IE or whatever. < 1254437630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mapi32... < 1254437637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: think I should just start over and omit the networking stuff? < 1254437695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. < 1254437815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's try that again. < 1254437820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Setup. < 1254437861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it doesn't ask about the network this time. < 1254437862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why. < 1254437866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands off. < 1254437869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analyzing computer. < 1254437931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's working now? < 1254437964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1254437965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands on. < 1254437976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nah; it just doesn't realise it has a network now for some reason. < 1254437989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1254437991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands off. < 1254437992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying files. < 1254438071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1254438072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands on. < 1254438089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1254438091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restarting. < 1254438093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's failed. < 1254438097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard rebooting. < 1254438110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands off, kinda. < 1254438117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, really hands off. < 1254438119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's booting Setup. < 1254438123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows protection error. < 1254438124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh-oh. < 1254438130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restart. < 1254438142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, again. < 1254438147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck shitting bullhorns. < 1254438169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it doesn't like AC97. < 1254438237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1254438239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1254438243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win95 does not usually work on a cpu faster than 300 mhz... < 1254438243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a patch to get it to work... but I doubt it would work on a 2.8ghz < 1254438243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :machine. < 1254438257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Try installing the AMD high speed processor patch." < 1254438258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1254438271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Please note that the fix described, < 1254438272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also mentioned by Ben Myers in another reply in this thread, does NOT work on < 1254438272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win95 Gold or Win95A, which is what you have according to your description < 1254438272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1254438308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically, I'm fucked at the momnet. < 1254438312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*moment < 1254438347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.microsoft.com/kb/192841 < 1254438347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1254438368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try it a few times more first < 1254438514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command prompt works, so let's try running this patch. < 1254438818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, win /d:fmsvx gets in < 1254438827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(every troubleshooting option apart from networking) < 1254438858 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1254438891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feast your eyes on the not-yet-fully-installed Windows 95 in safe mode! http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2164436/2009-10/windows-95-safe-mode.png < 1254438902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be using DOS filenames. < 1254438940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Access floppy drive = BSOD! < 1254438949 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1254438954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Windows freezes if you continue from it, naturally. < 1254439151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, 32-bit seems to be what breaks it. < 1254439165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not. < 1254439193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. Just 16-bit-disk-accses safe mode works. < 1254439194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*access < 1254439256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And exploring A: works. < 1254439288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update complete, bringing with it spam ISP links. < 1254439294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I not surprised, Microsoft? < 1254439324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's try and boot into normal Windows 95, then run Setup to fix my awful mistakes. < 1254439326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, did that work? < 1254439339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's setting up my hardware, apparently. < 1254439355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And running Setup! < 1254439356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands off. < 1254439361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSOD. < 1254439367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: they were right about 30-60 minutes... < 1254439371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1254439373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can continue through the BSOD < 1254439377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands on. < 1254439380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1254439401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rebooting. < 1254439404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you messing with Win95 anyway < 1254439421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enter Network Password! < 1254439426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hands on, installation probably finished. < 1254439437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why not? It's not totally alien and DOSlike like 3.11, but it's not all modern and icky and internetty like 98. < 1254439457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has no pretences of being a "real" OS, yet it has so much gooey GUI. < 1254439465 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People typically have reasons for installing old OSes < 1254439467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, in that background you can see one of Microsoft's split-keyboard-in-one-unit things. < 1254439477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Have VM, bittorrent sites, will install OSs. < 1254439486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever < 1254439488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION skips networking
< 1254439491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there we go. < 1254439492 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a split keyboard < 1254439494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All installed, booted up. < 1254439509 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do fully split, wireless keyboards exist? < 1254439510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Tour wants the silly CD-ROM. :P < 1254439510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go with NT 3.1 < 1254439518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Not wireless. < 1254439523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's basically 3.11. < 1254439529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Why do you need wireless? :P < 1254439532 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.51* < 1254439541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because it's fully split < 1254439545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: so? < 1254439549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What happened to my program groups?" "What happened to File Manager?" --Windows Help < 1254439556 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: kinesis sells a keyboard where the two halves are connected by a 20-inch cord. That's lame. < 1254439562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ah, I see < 1254439565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, mount it on your chair :D < 1254439572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mount the cables on your chair's back < 1254439574 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20-inch is not long enough for that < 1254439580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big is your chair < 1254439586 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than 20 inches < 1254439593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, dragging the scrollbar doesn't do anything until you leave go < 1254439601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics are very choppy. Did it really flicker this much? < 1254439606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even just moving the mouse. < 1254439614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icon on the desktop: "The Internet". < 1254439627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION clicks Properties. Looks like IE.
< 1254439634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It opens IE settings, I think. < 1254439636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE 3, presumably. < 1254439653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1254439656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't install the sounds :( < 1254439679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, I have *four* floppy drives < 1254439721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, setup.exe runs fine on a booted 95 system < 1254439737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, explorer switches to list view if the folder has a lot of entries. < 1254439738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's clever. < 1254439879 0 :coppro!n=chatzill@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1254440616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the 79MB one wasn't faked < 1254440620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the size of \win95 < 1254440787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has microsoft chat < 1254440797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, no < 1254440799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some telephone thing < 1254440834 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAILBOT READY TO OPERATE < 1254440837 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMMAND? < 1254440841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1254440844 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1254440856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you succeeded at failing < 1254440857 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL < 1254440858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're failbot < 1254440861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you failed at being failbot < 1254440875 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEAH! score! < 1254440922 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that went exactly as i planned :D < 1254440948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it succeeded at going to plan? < 1254440951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were failbot! < 1254440965 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just pretending < 1254440978 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hmm < 1254440991 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could write a failbot that fails at failing < 1254441029 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could also fail at failing at failing < 1254441032 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1254441053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never metafailbot i didn't like *barely avoids falling anvil* < 1254441054 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive failbot < 1254441055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd succeed at being xzibit, which isn't failing. < 1254441138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, I seem to have no audio drivers either. < 1254441141 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... what?! formal languages tomorrow at 8 in the morning :F < 1254441142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's get the internet on this thing. < 1254441181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't find the file on the CD-ROM; why am I surprised. < 1254441187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: I'm not. < 1254441231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh. < 1254441232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's looking in X: < 1254441235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my CD drive is now H: < 1254441247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada! < 1254441248 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird smileys < 1254441252 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like C: one < 1254441255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 95 drive letters. :P < 1254441264 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like deeper :) backwards < 1254441290 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P: < 1254441301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An unexpected error has occurred! < 1254441305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say it ain't so, IE 3. < 1254441305 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1254441311 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows :D < 1254441337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of forgive it; I *am* running it in a VM with modern hardware, after all. < 1254441369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An expected error has occurred! < 1254441372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This VGA driver is oh-so-very slow. < 1254441401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So... Win95 is 79mb, but it requires 9GB free? < 1254441402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1254441407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't. < 1254441409 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_ < 1254441415 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1254441419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 9GB figure was included in the torrent's info file. < 1254441420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bullshit. < 1254441449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1254441457 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember playing neverhood under 95 < 1254441461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact it's only using 115MB; I haven't got the system sounds, though, just the Microsoft Sound. Maybe because my audio doesn't work it decided not to copy them. < 1254441461 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a kid :D < 1254441462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1254441464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Neverhood < 1254441466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that game so much. < 1254441475 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clayman ftw! < 1254441483 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, sleep < 1254441491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Klaymen, you mean. < 1254441502 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1254441508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked up the guy behind it and Earthworm Jim a few years back; he's a crazy conservative Christian type. :( < 1254441522 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;f < 1254441523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(USA-style Republican.) < 1254441541 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway goodnight < 1254441547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad night! < 1254441548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1254441550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night. < 1254441566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Say, it's possible IE 3 didn't do HTTP 1.1, isn't it? < 1254441576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Possible, sure. < 1254441583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< you can't hit the bottom-left corner to open the start menu < 1254441584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fitt's law fail