00:04:10 -!- madbrain has joined. 00:04:17 hmm 00:04:27 madness abounds 00:04:38 I'm having a hard time making an infinite tape in functional language 00:04:55 hint: tuple of two stacks 00:05:07 that's what I'm doing 00:05:26 Hint: that is a tape. 00:05:35 steams !! 00:05:54 stacks are finite unless you jiggery pokery with the lazy languages 00:05:54 well, right now that solution works with a finite tape 00:06:09 streams* 00:06:10 fax: they are _extensible_ 00:06:25 my language is not lazy :/ 00:06:47 madbrain: ignore fax. but you do need to check for empty stacks, and extend when necessary. 00:06:56 fax: They are of arbitary size, unless your language implementation is broken. 00:07:00 (as they all are.) 00:07:14 ;) 00:07:34 fax: are you faxithisia [sp?] ? 00:08:46 madbrain: also, if your stacks are functions, then you can make them self-extending i think. but tuples may be easier otherwise... 00:08:54 I'm trying to make an object that returns a new 0 integer when you pass it True and itself when you pass it False but as of yet it is not working 00:09:16 "new"? 00:10:01 yeah, I implemented my 8bit integers more or less as objects 00:10:26 madbrain: well it would be f = b(0, f) wouldn't it? 00:10:29 er 00:10:33 madbrain: well it would be f b = b(0, f) wouldn't it? 00:11:01 oerjan: I don't like "ignore fax", have I said something that is misleading or idiotic 00:11:16 fax: sorry that was a bit rough 00:11:22 yeah that's what I'm trying to do but the semantics are complicated and as of yet I've mostly got infinite loops or syntax errors 00:11:33 fax: it was wrong, though ;) 00:11:43 oerjan: I'm not sure why a finite stack + a check if it's null to extend it with a 0 is nicer than an infinite stream of zeros 00:11:54 oerjan maybe you know something I don't like e.g. what language he is using 00:12:16 what was wrong? 00:12:23 I'll take anthing that doesn't infinite loop :D 00:12:27 fax: he is using an esoteric functional language which is horrible to program in, so it's best to do everything as simple as at all possible 00:12:42 yeah to me "finite stack + a check if it's null to extend it with a 0" doesn't sound simple 00:13:07 fax: what was wrong was that you couldn't use two stacks for a tape 00:13:33 oerjan: You can certainly use two stacks for a tape: If you want an infinite tape then two finite stacks do not work 00:13:36 fax: however the alternative is to use a function for an infinite stream here. it _may_ be simpler though. 00:13:42 I don't suppose you could make the lists have loops at the end to make them look infinit when popped? 00:13:53 really a function for an infinite stream? that's a great idea I wish I'd thought of that :P 00:13:57 fax: the language has nothing but tuples and functions 00:14:02 simonrc: that's what I'm trying to do 00:14:08 ah 00:14:50 I've just added an interpretation of tuples as closures, which does help a bit, but this is still maddening :D 00:14:56 and i think its data is all immutable, i may remember wrong though 00:15:36 now, off to bed 00:15:53 fax: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Univar 00:17:09 also the tuple-disjoin operators apply in the wrong order, which is quite confusing 00:17:18 I should have made it postfix 00:18:29 madbrain: note that when doing fixpoints in a non-lazy language you need to include the argument before taking fixpoint, otherwise you get an infinite loop. (like in unlambda.) maybe that is your problem? 00:19:03 I think I've had that problem yeah 00:19:24 can you compile lambda calculus into Univar? 00:19:32 no idea :D 00:19:43 possibly yes 00:19:44 I'd probably start by attempting that 00:19:53 (if it turned out realy hard then.. give up) 00:20:05 I'm trying to do brainfuck 00:20:12 the only problem i see with that is that univar, as the name implies, only allows you to handle one variable/argument at a time. although i guess tuples helps with that. 00:20:38 *help 00:20:53 oerjan: well, in practice you make statements that reassign the variable with a new tuple 00:21:21 so you can keep multiple variables, it's just incredibly inconveinient :D 00:24:26 the interpreter is a bit crude :P 00:24:27 but indeed, if this is for proving turing-completeness, lambda calculus or combinator calculus is likely to be easier 00:24:31 program="COPY PROGRAM HERE" 00:24:58 well, the lua documention didn't mention any text input function I think :D 00:25:15 so you invented this language? 00:25:20 yeah 00:25:24 oh cool 00:25:54 It's not quite as cool as unlambda but yeah :D 00:26:04 fax: so i assume you aren't faxithisia from old then 00:27:01 madbrain: When I run the cat program it prints each char on its own line - is that correct? 00:27:11 oerjan that was my old nick 00:27:14 oh 00:27:22 fax: yeah 00:27:34 well long time no see then, i think 00:27:45 madbrain: file:read(). 00:28:09 madbrain: Use something like io.stdin or whatever io.open returns as file there. 00:28:11 ilari: a good idea 00:28:42 there should be a way to make it print without newlines.. 00:28:55 there probably is 00:29:06 io.stdout:write 00:32:48 yay 00:32:50 it works 00:33:38 woot 00:33:59 &,($$>,&(<,)(&>,&<,>,)<,) 00:34:00 &($>,<,)&<,&>,&<,>, 00:34:13 what does that do :P 00:34:33 madbrain: Can you write quine in it? 00:34:36 :-) 00:34:45 before execution, var= 0 integer object 00:35:58 then it makes a tuple: var = {integer,infinite_stack_function} 00:36:46 Then it makes a tuple in an alternative way that is functional (basically a function that returns a on true and b on false) 00:39:04 and in this new tuple it puts the integer object, and then a new closure/object made out of the infinite stack function and a tuple with the required data (integer object and infinite stack function) 00:41:07 TC language with unrestricted output should be sufficient for existence of quine... 00:41:10 the infinite stack function reads in a value, if it's true it returns the integer object, if it false it returns a new closure made out of itself 00:41:52 yeah quite technically should be possible although I haven't tried it yet 00:42:24 Ilari I wonder if there's a proof of that which you could use to construct a quine for arbitrary languages 00:42:30 yay, now I have a full branfuck infinite tape object 00:43:22 madbrain: How do I do one thing after another: Like print one bit then print another bit? I guess make functions nested that do each one and put the result into the next in sequence? 00:43:46 well, functions are made out of series of expressions 00:44:25 Univar defintely has unrestricted output. So if it is TC, quine will exist... 00:44:40 so suppose you want to print something, you can keep the state of the variable like this: <&,!stuff_you_want_to_print 00:45:24 madbrain: Oh I can just write: !,!,!,!, to print , four times? 00:45:38 (!,!,!,!,) prints its argument four times? 00:45:53 fax: yeah, that's 4 statements but yeah 00:46:00 I'm confused 00:46:04 4 statements? 00:46:06 that's if you want to print all of the variable 00:46:34 fax: yeah, all the code is made out of statements, but the assignment is implicit 00:46:41 ok 00:46:58 like, &,, really means ,=&,, 00:47:10 ie var = {var,var} 00:47:17 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 00:47:27 the assignment is implicit 00:48:56 to print a part of the current var, you'd go var = {var,print(stuff_you_want_to_print)}.left 00:49:37 I see 00:49:41 ie <&,whatever 00:49:41 this is hard :P 00:51:56 so I'm not sure about the syntax: so I wrote some function ..., and I wonder if I need to write $(...)&,! to say apply a pair of the variable with an input bit to it 00:52:02 is that right? or I messed up somewhere 00:52:51 -!- Pthing has joined. 00:53:11 input is ? 00:53:20 oops 00:53:25 I should have written ? instead of ! 00:53:32 input from the keyboard 00:54:13 so that'd be $(..)&,? yeah, equivalent to var=func(join(var,input())) 00:54:57 damn my first program in univar didn't work 00:55:19 what was it? 00:55:38 it was just supposed to print the first char of the input 00:55:49 well, i/o is bit per bit 00:56:00 so you have to transfer 8 bits first :D 00:56:52 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:59:25 Heh... Someone should make executable which when run prints SHA-1 of itself (there's already C code which prints MD5 of its source). 00:59:50 Ilari was that done by brute force? 01:00:31 fax: It doesn't require breaking the hash. 01:01:02 look at its executable data, SHA-1's it, print? 01:01:03 Or better yet, SHA-256 of itself. 01:01:09 how does it work then 01:01:09 ? 01:01:18 Closely related to quines. 01:01:35 :/ 01:02:18 Essentially, variant of quine which instead of directly outputting the string, feeds it to be hashed and prints the output. 01:02:52 nice 01:05:38 Actually might be even easier methods to do it with native code, as you can directly read the code memory. 01:06:02 madbrain !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? works, but $(!,!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!)? doesn't.. why? 01:06:19 shouldn't they be the same 01:06:45 the second one ends with ! 01:06:52 !) is not legal 01:06:58 -_- 01:06:58 ! need something to print :D 01:06:59 thank you 01:07:02 it works :D 01:07:26 Can you write an interpreter that takes the program as a file instead of being embedded ... 01:07:47 in lua? sure 01:11:03 once I finish this brainfuck interpret :D 01:11:52 Heck, a.out can be made to just directly map the text parts of program and headers to memory. Don't use data segment and put all variables in BSS and its more like shooting fish in barrel (most difficult task is to implement the hash function). 01:12:36 madbrain I don't understand ! 01:12:45 this part "put a 0 bit in the output buffer if its value is (>,) or a 1 bit if its value is (<,)," 01:13:05 oh 01:13:14 (>,) and (<,) 01:13:33 the extra comma was due to text formatting :( 01:13:59 but yeah (>,) is used as "true" bit and (<,) as "false" 01:15:20 or that's the wrong way around actually 01:15:31 (<,) is true and (>,) false 01:16:19 you can do conditional execution with $$bit&(true function)(false function)parameters 01:23:08 Ilari I wonder if there's a proof of that which you could use to construct a quine for arbitrary languages 01:23:17 see http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/quine.html#sec_fp 01:25:54 oerjan can you actually produce the quine automatically from this proof? 01:26:08 Supposedly 01:26:19 I might have a go at that some point in the future 01:27:17 we also had a discussion on the wiki when someone tried to construct a tc language without a quine. it depends subtly on how you define "unrestricted output"... 01:27:37 now if i could just remember the page... 01:33:38 Talk:Smjg was it 01:34:08 -!- augur has joined. 01:38:18 madbrain: I'm confused again :P .. if I do $(...)&,? that's getting (variable,input) inside the function (as it should) but if I do $(...)&?, that's getting (input,variable) .. but I expected it to be getting (input,input) 01:38:40 why doesn't variable get written over by the ? part happening first? 01:39:28 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Smjg 01:40:08 oops, right 01:41:34 fax: i think the assignment only applies to whole statements? 01:42:02 inside an expression, ? just returns a value 01:42:15 because ? is a value yeah 01:42:35 I see 01:42:50 $(...)&?, is equivalent to var = fx({in(),var}) 01:43:06 :S 01:43:15 I can't read this fx({in(),var}) 01:43:46 why not? 01:43:55 I just don't know what that means 01:44:23 {x,y} is lua for "create new array with elements x and y" 01:44:39 could also be written as tuple(x,y) 01:44:42 $f&? is like f({in(), var}) ? 01:44:50 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:44:51 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:44:59 & needs 2 arguments 01:45:23 but $f&?, means that yeah 01:52:32 -!- augur has joined. 01:52:32 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:59:01 woot, I have everything done except the brainfuck looping :D 01:59:14 wow you are fast 01:59:49 well, I had most operators working already 02:00:18 now it can parse a brainfuck program into a function except for looping 02:04:15 ok looping time, this will require some fixed point magic :D 02:18:45 ... But the looping is the nontrivial bit. 02:20:20 yeah 02:22:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:35:54 * fax is failing to encode church numerals into Univar 02:36:13 hmm 02:36:33 doesn't sound that hard 02:37:23 but I think you need closures 02:38:02 Church numeral 0 would be... (()) I think? 02:38:27 n f x = f(f(...(x)...)) 02:39:14 i think making the argument a tuple would be easier... 02:40:08 Church numeral 1 would be... (&($<,>,),) as far as I can guess 02:40:10 -!- calamari has joined. 02:40:18 2 = ($<,$<,>,) 02:40:38 um you don't need to return a tuple 02:40:54 ah 02:41:08 (&($<,>,),) is the d function I think 02:41:21 although that _could_ be convenient... 02:41:37 d? 02:42:06 decrementing is generally awkward with church numerals 02:42:11 it uses a special function evaluation: if you evaluate a tuple, it uses the left member as a function, and combines the right member and the parameter in a tuple 02:42:40 ie $&abc = $a&bc 02:42:42 huh 02:42:54 Basically without that there are no closures 02:43:00 oh 02:43:42 I modifed how that worked a bit because no closures was making things hard :D 02:46:47 yeah I was trying without, I couldn't seen any way 02:47:37 like, you can emulate closures but that was too ugly so I added a hack 02:47:50 &()stuff = closure 02:47:56 oh I was trying that but I couldn't see how to do it for things like ((...)) 02:47:59 where you have nesting 02:49:16 and when a closure function gets called, it gets a tuple with the original closure data on the left and the parameter on the right 03:13:18 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:25:10 YES 03:25:13 looping works 03:27:21 I think I have brainfuck 03:28:56 hmm, nope :( 03:34:20 argh, unpredictable crashed :( :( :( 03:36:50 madbrain http://pastie.org/650996 03:36:56 I modified the interpreter slightly 03:37:14 what's the difference? 03:37:26 well I also put my program in there you can try it out 03:37:35 that was bloody hard :D 03:38:38 yay asterisks :D :D :D 03:38:55 the program uses church numerals to loop 03:39:04 oh man that's an epic program 03:39:22 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:40:52 -!- MizardX has joined. 03:41:05 * madbrain scratches his head :O 03:42:14 yeah this is like reading a solid block of unlambda :D 03:49:04 -!- fax has quit ("Leaving"). 04:43:52 argh 05:20:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:21:03 Why did freenode-connect send a VERSION request twice? 05:22:04 * oerjan doesn't remember seeing that 05:24:45 oh wait yes, during netsplits i think 05:25:06 Problems don't just solve themself, you know. 05:25:23 huh? 05:25:25 I know why many people don't like GPL, it is because GNU GPL is very communist. 05:25:37 heh 05:25:39 GPL v3 is even more communist, but I don't have the problem. 05:25:46 I am fine with that. 05:27:11 And I haven't had problems with forking GPL'd projects. (That is, as long as the program runs!) 05:27:32 But sometimes I write short programs (or some others) in public domain, instead. 05:30:09 Now you can see, how, maintaining a GPL'd project is not too difficult, here is a forked project so you can see by example: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/ 05:30:51 The time on my computeris many minutes off. 05:31:08 oh right, bus 05:31:10 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 05:33:00 I have never seen keyboard with backspace below tab. But I think some space cadet keyboards have RUB OUT below tab, however. 05:33:31 Have you ever used any space cadet keyboards? 05:33:57 yes 05:33:58 YES 05:35:07 * oklokok is tempted to say "DON'T YOU MEAN UNDERLOAD, MADBRAIN", but it would make no sense because madbrain isn't oerjan. 05:35:43 DON'T YOU MEAN UNDERLOAD,OKLOKOK 05:36:06 i always mean underload 05:36:07 no wait 05:36:15 err yes 05:36:17 i do 05:36:19 http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/images/SpaceCadet1.jpeg 05:36:42 O, OK, you always mean underload. 05:40:18 yeah, except when i mean unlambda 05:40:25 sometimes i mean unlambda 05:40:30 just not always 05:40:35 because i always mean underload 05:42:39 So sometimes you mean both? 05:45:48 no no sometimes i mean unlambdad 05:45:52 *unlambda 05:46:06 hmm, only some bf programs work :( 05:46:20 Which programs? 05:46:44 mostly hello world 05:46:54 Some brainfuck programs require values wrapping 0-255 05:47:10 While others are universal 05:47:15 actually I think wrapping 0-255 should actually work 05:47:25 might be a bug 05:47:40 or some kind of stack smash 05:48:07 Fix your interpreter, try that. You can also add debug codes to see how much memory is needed, too, if you want to do that. 05:50:30 also it does not support comments 05:51:18 I wonder if the programs expect 255 or 0 for EOF 05:51:22 O. 05:51:27 Usually 0 for EOF, I think. 05:52:06 aha, this sorter expected 255 05:52:13 And crashed with 0 05:52:14 Some programs also work with no-change on EOF, some require 0 for EOF. Some might use 255 for EOF but I have not seen much of these 05:52:22 OK, then set 255 for EOF 05:52:48 Some brainfuck interpreters have command-line parameter to select the modes 05:55:19 -!- Gracenotes has quit ("Leaving"). 05:55:42 like, if the brackets are mismatched it will probably generate some horrible functionnal mes 05:55:59 That's OK 05:56:18 All valid programs should have matched brackets anyways 05:56:45 woah 05:56:50 a quine worked :D 05:57:38 Good. 06:00:09 haha this fibonacci program is getting progressively slower 06:00:26 The megazeux.4th file is public domain, however. (It consists mostly of over one hundred constants) 06:00:52 If the fibonacci programs uses infinite size numbers, it is supposed to get progressively slower, isn't it? 06:03:01 -!- zzo38 has quit ("It's getting late, it's dont?"). 06:05:19 yeah 06:05:27 yeah ok this interpreter works :D 06:05:58 but since most programs have newlines/comments/etc you have to edit them to remove that :D 06:16:14 * Sgeo got a Google Wave invite :D 06:28:07 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Univar#Brainfuck_interpreter Yes :D 06:40:51 -!- coppro has joined. 06:57:55 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:58:08 -!- madbrain has quit ("Radiateur"). 07:12:04 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:12:26 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:12:46 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal"). 07:14:27 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:32:38 -!- ehird has joined. 07:38:26 09:02:34 http://fof.durge.org/~sc/invite_only/langs.png 07:38:27 down now :( 07:38:56 16:42:24 Ilari I wonder if there's a proof of that which you could use to construct a quine for arbitrary languages 07:38:57 there is 07:44:25 17:27:17 we also had a discussion on the wiki when someone tried to construct a tc language without a quine. it depends subtly on how you define "unrestricted output"... 07:44:29 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:44:46 indeed, you must be able to print any computable translation of program state 07:46:51 although, well, we should define it based on turing machines 07:46:57 any turing-computable translation of any turing state 07:47:07 so if you can't print out a certain register, that's fine, just emulate a turing machine 07:47:10 which is allowed 07:47:20 ofc that fails for sub-tc languages, but "eh" 07:47:51 hmm... having a TC language without a quine would be an interesting feat 07:48:10 does BF have a known quine? 07:48:23 i heard you like turing machines so a put a turing maching in your turing machine so you can compute while you compute 07:48:24 coppro: lots 07:48:32 ok, just checking 07:48:41 21:25:25 I know why many people don't like GPL, it is because GNU GPL is very communist. 07:48:42 (a) totally wrong, it is not communist 07:48:42 (b) I dislike the GPL for entirely different reasons, TYVM 07:48:59 there shouldn't be anything theoretically requiring tc languages to have quines... but hmm 07:49:15 21:30:09 Now you can see, how, maintaining a GPL'd project is not too difficult, here is a forked project so you can see by example: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/ 07:49:15 Nobody ever said it was difficult; people have philosophical objections to doing such a thing, howeveer. 07:49:17 *however 07:49:41 seems obvious that any tc language with output has a quine 07:49:47 bsmntbombdood: no 07:49:52 o"x", output constant string x 07:50:07 you need the finicky definition that you must be able to transform state into output arbitrarily 07:50:17 but not all state is required, just enough to use all the computational powers of the language 07:50:19 it's *very* subtle 07:50:26 outputting constant strings is not output 07:50:42 congrats, you just offloaded the problem to defining output in a retarded way 07:50:56 which is... distinct from providing a definition of "IO-complete" 07:52:20 -!- adam_d has joined. 07:53:34 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 07:54:15 -!- coppro has quit ("I am leaving. You are about to explode."). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:05 "Bill O'Reilly: Why Obama's Nobel Prize, Deserved or Not, Is Good for America" // well... that's... an unexpected sentiment 08:00:19 * ehird scratches head 08:00:25 -!- kar8nga has joined. 08:13:48 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 08:44:31 Free market economics: "I define theft to include taxes, and therefore taxes are theft, which is immoral and cannot be supported under any circumstances." 08:45:37 (Usually followed up with, as in this depressingly-stereotypical case, "Also, if you're rich you're hardworking and manly! And the rich have no problem with the poor, the poor just keep themselves poor BECAUSE THEY WON'T WORK HARD.") 08:49:46 "Old versions (i.e., anything before 19.29) of GNU Emacs had problems editing files larger than 8 megabytes." 09:03:33 19.28 translates to November 1994; that's not so crazy-old. 09:09:49 Yeah, exactly. 09:10:11 Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping, Nine Megabytes And A Crash. 09:12:04 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:12:59 Well, you have to compare and contrast that to other state-of-the-art high-end for-professional-use-only text editors. Say, Notepad, with its 64K file size limit. 09:14:08 Maybe not Notepad in 1994, come to think of it. 09:15:50 I don't quite remember whether Write had some arbitrary size limits. 09:17:04 8 megabytes... so tiny 09:21:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:22:10 hi ais523 09:22:26 It's a megabyte, it's by definition not tiny. 09:22:37 hi 09:22:41 wow, you're here early... 09:23:26 ais523: got up at 1am, heh. 09:23:32 well, woke at 1am, got up at 2am. 09:23:52 yeah... 09:23:57 feels like 9am though. 09:24:08 Oh, right, I was wondering the one day about ehird's education. I mean, shouldn't you be having some sort of imposed schedules because of related activities or something? I understand that's customary. 09:24:27 i am crazy good at slinging things 09:24:44 gah, why is the local bus service website at .com? 09:25:04 because .com is memorable 09:25:26 no it isn't 09:25:27 Yes, it evokes all those "dot-com crash" connotations immediately. 09:25:45 a local bus service, which is confined by definition to the area around Birmingham and therefore to the UK 09:25:55 should clearly be at .co.uk; .com makes absolutely no sense there 09:26:00 and how am I meant to guess it? 09:26:01 .com is memorable to people 09:26:15 nobody cares what you can remember after forgetting because you're a tiny % 09:26:36 .com or .co.uk are memorable, .com is likely the first thing someone who only remembers the other bit to try 09:26:40 ehird: http://networkwestmidlands.com/BusReview/Bus_Routes_and_Changes.aspx is the page I'm looking at now 09:26:40 *will try 09:26:51 ok, and 09:26:55 they're busy messing with all the bus routes 09:27:03 in a way that is mostly very sensible, but very annoying to me 09:27:18 well, that's your problem :P 09:27:30 yes 09:27:38 could make it harder to get in in the morning, though 09:27:48 I now definitely need two busses, or a lot of walking, no matter which way I go 09:28:15 and I'm going to need a new bus map 09:28:31 I'm particularly annoyed because I tried to get a special sort of bus pass specifically to allow for potential changes 09:28:34 and it turned out it didn't exist 09:29:34 maybe you could try something other than a bos 09:29:34 *bus 09:29:39 ((like a public hovercraft)) 09:30:19 dayum 09:30:33 i'm petitioning the guvvmn't to make a public hovercraft service 09:30:36 call it 09:30:37 HoverEngland 09:31:11 Speaking of TLDs and bus companies; there's this Finnish company (Matkahuolto) who operate between-cities bus stations and therefore are the logical place to look for tickets and schedules for any "not-internal" bus lines. They have two websites; a .com for the company (for freight delivery services and stuff like that), and .info for consumers-looking-for-bus-schedules. 09:31:41 The word "hovehird" sounds funny. 09:31:48 I wonder if dis.info is registered; that's a rather ridiculously obvious domain. 09:31:52 No HTTP, at least. 09:32:01 Registered. 09:32:04 Woe betide to me. 09:32:06 *to me 09:32:15 Registrant Organization:the disinformation company ltd. 09:32:18 Dun dun DUN 09:33:24 They do have a HTTP-answering server at disinfo.com. 09:33:42 Boooooooooooorin' 09:34:32 Why does that nic.info whois say "Expiration Date 01-Aug-2006 17:00:42 UTC" for dis.info. 09:35:39 It's disinfo, duh. 09:35:55 There's also a trademark claim registered in there; "dis" as the US trademark number 2218816. 09:35:56 From the monopolistic registration cartel of the domain registrars. 09:36:10