< 1256688067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wow, that was unexpected: I just copied the old triple-head xorg.conf in place, and now it works. Some later xorg (or kernel) update must've fixed whatever was wrong with it. < 1256688188 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256688691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, the window manager (Awesome) is broken anyway. (They use a Lua script as the config file, and change pretty much all interfaces for every minor revision; I just upgraded from 3.3 to 3.4 and everything's broken.) < 1256689033 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's awesome like < 1256689034 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1256689093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a tiling wm, with the whole "tags" thing. I could even like it if they'd selected something else than Lua for their scripting lanugage. < 1256689143 0 :ehird!n=ehird@212.183.140.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256689231 0 :Rugxulo!n=user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256689306 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256689324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Pyglet any good? < 1256689360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:36:13 * AnMaster wonders how sane it is to burn an iso file when the iso file is on an nfs mount < 1256689367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 Mb internet is faster than a CD. < 1256689377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256689385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it is, I recall, unmaintained. < 1256689389 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dumb question but what does "roger the googly" mean?? < 1256689394 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say it mentioned on Family Guy) < 1256689396 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*saw < 1256689405 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLEEP THIS KEYBOARD! ;-) < 1256689414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, xmonad? < 1256689414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I don't know? Family Guy is retarded < 1256689422 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes ... yes it is < 1256689434 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and MS won't sponsor it for Win7 anymore (awww, too bad) < 1256689444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did think about that; it was disrecommended by someone, though. < 1256689456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on what grounds? < 1256689471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O Why is 0, 0 the LOWER left corner? In graphics stuff, isn't it typically the upper left? < 1256689474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember at all, just that someone voiced a negative opinion. < 1256689486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, where? < 1256689499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pyglet.org/doc/programming_guide/image_viewer.html "The arguments (0, 0) tell pyglet to draw the image at pixel coordinates 0, 0 in the window (the lower-left corner)." < 1256689505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, and in math you generally have positive y up < 1256689508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lower-left isn't so terribly uncommon either. < 1256689525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does feel a bit more "mathy", yes. < 1256689526 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't OS/2 use something odd like the top right?? < 1256689532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: dwm is cool innit < 1256689534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think we should use polar coordinates < 1256689543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TGA uses 0,0 = bottom right < 1256689554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice < 1256689564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1256689565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the header < 1256689567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set a field < 1256689568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I want an image format with polar coordinates < 1256689570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to flip the coordinates < 1256689572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not joking < 1256689579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY OPTION CREEP < 1256689598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Hm what is tga meant for? Maybe for "print this while it is being sent"? < 1256689604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus maybe making sense or such < 1256689606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a guess < 1256689615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TGA is just for everything. < 1256689616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you don't need compression. < 1256689620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, trying to switch to wifi < 1256689623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1256689638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, must be on laptop < 1256689644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,/ < 1256689816 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is surprised ehird doesn't like Family Guy, seems right up his alley
< 1256689958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night ⇲ < 1256690172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1256690175 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1256690921 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.101.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256690932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:38:56 wow he uses ion? XD < 1256690932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing wrong with ion, the author just has a bad personality < 1256690932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:13:53 Isn't it against Ion's philosophy to do multihead, though? I mean, the reason given for not supporting Xinerama is "I'm not going to waste my time rubbing your unecological penis enlargement"; admittedly it supports plain X multihead, but I don't see how that would make it any more ecological. < 1256690936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's said on the mailinglists just to use regular multihead, i.e. he's not going to expend *effort* making it work for multiple monitor users < 1256690939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:50:29 fork ion? < 1256690941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:51:40 someone should. It would annoy the hell out of the author < 1256690943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it wouldn't? < 1256690945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:57:43 bsmntbombdood_, switch WM seriously. < 1256690947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1256690949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:58:21 fizzie, ion wasn't the first tiling one was it? < 1256690951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; pwm, ion's successor, was the first tabbing WM < 1256690953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:59:20 dwm or such I would guess < 1256690955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwm is recent. < 1256690957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are no real alternatives to ion if you want tabbing+tiling) < 1256690959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, stop talking about ion < 1256690961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid being disconnected while logreading < 1256690963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also stupid #esoteric being stuck on boring topics for ages < 1256690967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.48 Mb/s download, 87 ms ping. Wi-Fi to router/modem downstairs, with something like 3 Mb/s theoretical maximum. < 1256690970 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1256690971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad. < 1256691898 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1256692169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorry, the GeoCities web site you were trying to reach is no longer available." < 1256692172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is over. < 1256692182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP GeoCities 1994—2009 < 1256692203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should I say Beverly Hills Internet? < 1256692393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how to mount a loopback ext2 on OS X. < 1256692580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday, I felt nostalgia for a website. It wasn't Geocities < 1256692588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice, Sgeo < 1256692592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice. < 1256692619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just, I'm usually easily affected by nostalgia, and you'd think that I'd feel nostalgia for Geocities < 1256692630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice, Sgeo < 1256692637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1256692660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel nostalgic for GeoCities < 1256692677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a Google search today, and the fourth result, and the first useful one for me, was actually a Geocities website < 1256692696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gone now. < 1256692699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1256692704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like I found it just in time < 1256692716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say boycott Yahoo!, but nobody uses Yahoo!. < 1256692717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it, if I may ask? < 1256692720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from you, for emergency email. < 1256692724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a massive list of prime numbers < 1256692728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Seriously; nobody uses Yahoo!!) < 1256692729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also, I use Yahoo! < 1256692734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, FUCK THEIR NAME) < 1256692740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? it gives crappy resultsst < 1256692742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*results < 1256692744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a non-work mail account < 1256692746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for searching < 1256692751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:18] ehird: Apart from you, for emergency email. < 1256692754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the agora one, yes? < 1256692755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, missed that < 1256692756 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes girls. Not names
< 1256692757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1256692763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty minnor use < 1256692764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minor < 1256692769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the SMTP server on bham.ac.uk keeps going down < 1256692777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sgeo likes girls. Not names" < 1256692777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that < 1256692777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1256692777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean < 1256692783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it rather hard to send emails, and in nomic timing is often important < 1256692785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mean a thiing < 1256692786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Also, FUCK THEIR NAME) < 1256692787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1256692797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh. now if only it was funny! < 1256692871 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256693039 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-117-216.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256693076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it < 1256693307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Simple generic tabbed fronted to xembed aware applications, originally designed for surf but also usable with many other application, i.e. uzbl, urxvt and xterm" < 1256693310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love you, suckless < 1256693373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :841 lines; quite big for suckless < 1256693386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.SH NAME < 1256693386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabbed \- simple webkit-based browser < 1256693394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoopsy. < 1256693488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suckless for success < 1256693539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reports
< 1256693730 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1256693743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reporting a bug to suckless was refreshingly simple. < 1256693766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send to dev+subscribe-nomail@suckless.org, reply to its response. email dev@suckless.org < 1256693770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget about it < 1256693770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1256693823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the bug? < 1256693839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.SH NAME < 1256693839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabbed \- simple webkit-based browser < 1256693843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously copied from the surf manpage < 1256693867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that quote from the manpage was my entire message body :P) < 1256693890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1256694009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, t'isn't working; wonder what i broke < 1256694012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. What use could I get out of tabbed, anyways? < 1256694027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: using a non-tabbed browser; tabs are a window management function < 1256694028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I specifically, not "what does it do") < 1256694042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. http://surf.suckless.org/ < 1256694044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(webkit based) < 1256694052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is able to display websites and follow links." < 1256694064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Tempting. I am always on the lookout for less-sucky web browsers. < 1256694081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surf is adding one of those mouseless-link-clicky things sometime I belieeve, if that's yoru thing < 1256694094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.suckless.org/surf/1/surf pretty much lists everything it can do < 1256694101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one of the things I do with Conkeror, yes. < 1256694104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, webkit/gtk handles basically the entire page < 1256694144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://surf.suckless.org/patches/history history is an optional patch :-D < 1256694146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*patch :-D < 1256694152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat ~/.surf/history | sort -r | uniq | dmenu -l 10 -b -i | xprop -id `cat ~/.surf/id` -f _SURF_URI 8s -set _SURF_URI < 1256694155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice history viewer < 1256694169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears to be sufficiently non-suck that I may give it a shot in the near future. < 1256694169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be better with dmenu-vertical, though < 1256694205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the suckless guys < 1256694264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Wmii is using 9p? < 1256694271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kinda sweet. < 1256694274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1256694280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The suckless guys are huge plan9 fans. < 1256694284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wmii depends on plan9port, iirc < 1256694286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait, just the 9base subset < 1256694288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1256694310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :werc, their website tool, is written entirely in rc (plan9 shell) < 1256694329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dwm is a bit more suckless than wmii, though, i'd say < 1256694353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there can be a thing as too much simplicity, but as you use ratpoison i somehow i doubt that applies < 1256694368 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1256694373 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256694388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I usually have two X windows open at a time. < 1256694397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For this purpose, Ratpoison is almost *overkill*. :P < 1256694409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratpoison makes it a real bitch to look at more than one thing at once < 1256694419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, even to have more than one terminal is a pain, imo < 1256694429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwm things are nice because open windows automatically fit and you can hide them if you want < 1256694481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current plan is to build myself a little linux around a tiny, moduleless kernel + static binaries only and dwm... < 1256694494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny how only that and OS X seem to be usable; two extremes < 1256694508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the annoyance at dynamic linking? < 1256694534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few things < 1256694545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the idea, not the implementation; UNIXy things make it hard to actually *build* dynamic libraries) < 1256694548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.garbe.us/2008/02/08/01_Static_linking/ is the most succinct explanation < 1256694563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, to add on to that post: They're just simpler. < 1256694567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP deliberately doesn't have shared objects < 1256694573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they certainly are simpler. < 1256694585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.garbe.us/2008/02/08/01_Static_linking/ gives the non-simplicity nazi reasons :P < 1256694645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be kinda nice if Linux distros weren't so crazy about breaking ABIs. < 1256694654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and a.out is simpler than ELF < 1256694665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're not using dynamic linking, ELF isn't attractive < 1256694678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least were smarter *about* the treatment of breaking ABIs. < 1256694688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simplicity nazi reasons are justified, to be honest; with no kernel modules, static binaries and a.out, I can maintain a distro without pain < 1256694705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be nice if someone else did it, of course, but http://stali.suckless.org/ misses the mark ever so slightly :( < 1256694714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they put the kernel in /bin/kernel, which is totally my idea, dammit < 1256694725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Heck, with no kernel modules, static binaries, and a.out, distro maintainance is little more than compiling things when you upgrade. < 1256694741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: add one to that list — a really simple init system < 1256694751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sysv init, not even bsd init (too opaque file), just two init scripts that call others < 1256694761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to activate one, make a binary and add it to the main init file < 1256694764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to deactivate, comment out the line < 1256694769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A really simple init system is... Not someething I blame you for. < 1256694773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main init files = shell scripts < 1256694778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tell me about it < 1256694785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even adding a simple thing to debian's init.d makes me cry < 1256694815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it a couple scripts that run things in /etc/init.d and /etc/halt.d or some such. < 1256694819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256694833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just /etc/init.start and /etc/init.stop, I think < 1256694836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for tons of runlevels < 1256694842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/init.start would look something like: < 1256694845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh < 1256694849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah blah < 1256694856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/init/networking/start < 1256694863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/init/blahcrapservice/start < 1256694874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, forget the directories; /etc/init/networking.start < 1256694878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you really, truly want it to listen to init signals, make an absurdly simple inittab. < 1256694899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, does it really matter? < 1256694904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1256694909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was more thinking: for i in /etc/init.d/*; $i ; done < 1256694918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, but what about disabling things temporarily? < 1256694920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the other systems let you do that < 1256694934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, passing arguments < 1256694937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, network configuration < 1256694943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1256694944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like: < 1256694949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting two web servers < 1256694976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i in /etc/init.d/*; if [ -x $i];then $i;fi ; done < 1256694981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/init/httpd.start -c /etc/httpd/site1.conf < 1256694981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/init/httpd.start -c /etc/httpd/site2.conf < 1256694984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. Fair enough. < 1256695004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, easy to switch between either. < 1256695020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one idea for a package management system: < 1256695046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/pkg/kernel/2.6.31.5 is a directory full of directories and symlinks < 1256695055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it'd have < 1256695055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin a directory < 1256695060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside, a symlink "kernel" to /bin/kernel < 1256695068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, just making something up < 1256695077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dir usr/, a dir share/, a symlink kernel to directory /usr/share/kerneel < 1256695087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, removing a package = rm -r it while following symlinks < 1256695104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it means you can easily view the files in a package, etc < 1256695143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just an idea, though < 1256695153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1256695155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalently is a list of files < 1256695162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and directories < 1256695162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to remove < 1256695173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/kernel < 1256695174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/kernel < 1256695175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of thing < 1256695178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess that idea is silly, really < 1256695204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, that's cool; with a list of files, updating a package is just rsyncing the relevant files < 1256695252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that + install/uninstall scripts for things like init system entries = package management system < 1256695302 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ehird trying to do? this conversation is tl < 1256695304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda upsetting when you come up with such a simple solution, knowing the complexity of all the others < 1256695318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the most recentt thing = package management system, aggressively simplified < 1256695319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*recent < 1256695325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1256695371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the supertopic = making an incredibly minimalist linux distribution with tiny kernel without modules + static binaries only (and a.out) + init system solely consists of two shell scripts that call other shell scripts and binaries + package management system is so light as to barely exist < 1256695457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i just realised an issue < 1256695470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i need to, for whatever reason, use emacs, even for a millisecond... i'd have to create a package for it < 1256695473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be a maintainer of emacs! < 1256695480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1256695533 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I get you so far - how do you plan to deal with configuration of packages and/or, more importantly, changed configurations? < 1256695574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configuration of packages is handled by /etc files. maybe if there is a justification, i will write scripts to handle it, but it'd basically be the same as e.g. gnome's configurators; not needed in the package management system < 1256695601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see any issue with this; do you? and, in that context, what would need to be done about changed configurations? I'm not sure what you mean by that term < 1256695681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: additionally, i don't see you dealing with configuration of your mom. < 1256695727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THAT PUT YOUR RESPONSES OUT OF BUSINESS. so to speak. < 1256695740 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, look at what debian does - it installs a default config in /etc - but some packages offer customization options when installed. This normally isn't particularly necessary, but some packages need configuration options to be useful < 1256695752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and if the user changes the configuration, you need a merge system for upgrades < 1256695832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) sure, just handle that in whatever global configuration system you desire, be it vi /etc/blah or gnome-whatever — just either have sane defaults if possible (or omit options entirely if it won't work without; just have a commented out template) and, if you must, alert the user in the install script < 1256695832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) good point, but is this really a big deal? you could copy the default config somewhere, but generally the user's current config will work < 1256695839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and notify the user of its location) < 1256695858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are backwards incompatible changes, yeah, i guess you should say "HEY USER FIX THIS", but I don't think the existing merge systems can handle syntax changes or whatever < 1256696003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i just don't see merge systems as handling a problem that happens often, and when they do handle it it's either trivial or dissatisfactory < 1256696008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be totally wrong < 1256696034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: debian does a prompt like a version control system in case of a merge conflict < 1256696040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that. < 1256696047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that address anything I say? If so, what part? < 1256696075 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and when they do handle it it's either trivial or dissatisfactory < 1256696087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a summary of: < 1256696094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:10] ehird: (a) sure, just handle that in whatever global configuration system you desire, be it vi /etc/blah or gnome-whatever — just either have sane defaults if possible (or omit options entirely if it won't work without; just have a commented out template) and, if you must, alert the user in the install script < 1256696094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:10] ehird: (b) good point, but is this really a big deal? you could copy the default config somewhere, but generally the user's current config will work < 1256696094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:10] ehird: (and notify the user of its location) < 1256696094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:10] ehird: if there are backwards incompatible changes, yeah, i guess you should say "HEY USER FIX THIS", but I don't think the existing merge systems can handle syntax changes or whatever < 1256696113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last line is the dissatisfactory part, (b) is the trivial part, and (b) is also the rarely-happens part < 1256696205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, really, i'd love for you to prove me wrong; then i can stop being pissed off that everyone else is overcomplicating things so much < 1256696434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you aren't proving me wrong :( < 1256696449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm too busy < 1256696465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S WHAT THEY A;; SAY < 1256696467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ALL < 1256696774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhows, yeah. < 1256696800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be simple, easy, fun, usable. ha ha ha as if < 1256697430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOM < 1256697496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo has a script for merging any changes in config files. < 1256697512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't execute the script, it leaves your config files the hell alone. < 1256697514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any? lemme guess, a generic merge tool < 1256697517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256697523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often is script execution done? < 1256697529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, on average < 1256697553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feeling that generally, merging is unneeded, and when it's needed it's either really easy to do or a complete renovation, which can't be automated without a lot of pain < 1256697554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do it every time I upgrade, but that's just me being rather careful & paranoid. How often do most do that? < 1256697560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... Very, very rarely. < 1256697596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rightyhothen, won't be needing none of that < 1256697610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally when the build hands out a message saying "The format of the config file changed in X manner. Go over your old configuration and make it work." < 1256697627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's annoying that I can only really optimise for i686 < 1256697638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything above that in the kernel is cpu-specific, right? < 1256697644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., not just a "anything not ancient, goddamn" < 1256697899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw: wired ~1.5 Mb/s internet with ~85 ms latency kicks the shit out of 3G. < 1256697928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since it isn't 15 £ / 1 fucking GiB < 1256697950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(currency is too an SI unit) < 1256697986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, if you're going to be doing the static Linux thing, ehird -- glibc sucks ass for static linking. < 1256697997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(namely, it's incapable of doing it properly) < 1256697997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think i'd use glibc? < 1256698006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE I'll use eglibc for programs that absolutely demand it < 1256698023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eglibc at least fixes the whole "can't do static linking" bit. < 1256698026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but glibc? no chance in hell < 1256698040 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this monitor is large < 1256698040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, I'm hoping I can just use gcc for the kernel < 1256698050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compile the rest with clang < 1256698054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wonder if clang has baggage if you do static linking) < 1256698068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: 24" isn't large. < 1256698073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol out of context etc < 1256698081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I hope you don't have a burning itch for something written in C++. < 1256698093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fortunately, not much that I don't think you'd be using) < 1256698093 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares how many inches < 1256698096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: clang does "semi-okay" c++ i believe < 1256698100 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1920*1200 is large < 1256698109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: That's the opposite of what she said! < 1256698114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: webkit < 1256698116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, but I seem to recall that it breaks at least some things. < 1256698121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webkit is pretty important. < 1256698127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, clang has built Webkit and KDE, so... < 1256698142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess those are the two *largest* things anyone will be building that use C++. < 1256698145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently clang can't compile itself < 1256698147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1256698150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circa 2009-04 < 1256698166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: latest gcc doesn't do a.out, yeah? < 1256698178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They very recently stopped supporting it, yeah. < 1256698188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful, frozen in time < 1256698189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1256698194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not sure what LLVM can do. < 1256698197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I'm sure the kernel will compile with it for years < 1256698211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still build the kernel with GCC 2, I think. < 1256698217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1256698225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they still *support* GCC 3... < 1256698257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I was thinking "cool, I can use google's gold linker for speed" but then I realised (a) gold is ELF-only (b) static linking takes like a millisecond < 1256698276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm uses the platform's linker, I think < 1256698280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a.out should be no trouble < 1256698298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gold linker supports plugins. < 1256698305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as using LLVM for link-time optimization. < 1256698311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, cute < 1256698327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: one issue is coreutils type things < 1256698336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, just add -emit-llvm to your CFLAGS for everything, and you get a lot of link-time optimization. < 1256698341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not gonna use gnu coreutils, don't think the bsd ones will work out of the box, and busybox is way too minimal < 1256698346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is probably niche and unmaintaine < 1256698352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/d/ < 1256698359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NetBSD ones almost certainly will work out of the box. < 1256698359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I believe clang can do the kernel too; not sure < 1256698367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think porting a bsd's and going from there will be the best idea < 1256698375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the BSD coreutils are good, but not perfect) < 1256698379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: interesting < 1256698393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I find that *highly* unlikely; it can compile FreeBSD, though < 1256698398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i386 < 1256698403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even that isn't as stable as gcc < 1256698407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is due to work, iirc < 1256698412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: clang's C support is very good < 1256698418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the clang guys are trying to make the kernel work with it < 1256698419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux is very hard to compile; they are very, very GCC-specific. < 1256698422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Summary: [META] Compiling the Linux kernel with clang < 1256698422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Product: new-bugs < 1256698426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from April. < 1256698431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: exactly < 1256698439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux is like 40% fucked up gcc bullshit < 1256698450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=4068 < 1256698454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Created an attachment (id=3486) [details] < 1256698454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch to Linux kernel to build with clang < 1256698458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't boot yet though < 1256698461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clang supports commonly used GCC stuff. < 1256698463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was only last month < 1256698465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and requires patching < 1256698469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux's GCC stuff is unique to GCC. < 1256698485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: on the other hand, < 1256698486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://llvm.org/bugs/attachment.cgi?id=2897 < 1256698490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://llvm.org/bugs/attachment.cgi?id=3486 < 1256698492 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the looks of that, they're close < 1256698496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is apparently all you need for it to build with clang < 1256698498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but booting isn't happening yet < 1256698505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine they'd be very far by now. < 1256698506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, it won't be stable for a while, I'm almost sure < 1256698509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it BUILDS < 1256698511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with two patches < 1256698512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small ones < 1256698515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clang has shaped up to be a very good compiler. < 1256698516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i linked them < 1256698519 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they just issued a production-ready release < 1256698519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1256698521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very far from the end, ic < 1256698525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: of what < 1256698527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang? < 1256698528 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang < 1256698538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, it still can't compile a booting kernel < 1256698539 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for C++, obvoiusly, but for C and Obj-C < 1256698543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and production ready for X != production ready for kernel < 1256698550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, webkit and kde can build with it, apparently < 1256698553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if llvm-gcc can build a functioning kernel
< 1256698556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just said it wouldn't be stable, and I wanted to disagree! < 1256698557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough for me as far as C++ goes < 1256698560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: click the damn bugzilla link < 1256698564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs two more patches than clang < 1256698568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not stable FOR THE KERNEL < 1256698576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you think as soon as it boots it'll be a stable kernel < 1256698577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I just started. < 1256698586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, um, have you ever read the kernel source < 1256698607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just worried that statically linked llvm binaries will be huge < 1256698621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would they be? < 1256698636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :support functions and stuff; I just doubt it's really been tested < 1256698655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how big a total llvm+clang toolchain is vs binutils/gcc < 1256698683 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION could try to compare, but he's lazy
< 1256698684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least judging from my experience building llvm+clang and binutils/gcc, llvm+clang is at least signficantly faster to *compile*. < 1256698701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, llvm+clang is far faster to build and to execute < 1256698711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1256698722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't have a hobbled-together artificial type system < 1256698728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a relief; I don't expect to provide a kde package, but webkit releases are, I think, quite often < 1256698764 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use EDG to compile the kernel :P < 1256698766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably maintain the distro by having a huge tree with every package's source, install/uninstall files and any additioanl files to install, rsync, and mk < 1256698775 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to say you don't use GCC < 1256698784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have a huge mkfile that includes all the others (which I'll craft myself) < 1256698789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. So, llvm-gcc doesn't build Linux because Linux relies on .code16gcc. < 1256698793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap. That's awful. < 1256698802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, the package mkfiles will do "make clean" < 1256698804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the actual packages < 1256698812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each package upgrade is a clean build < 1256698819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.code16gcc is the most crazy hack in GCC. < 1256698823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll handle only building packages i've updated the sources or additional files < 1256698829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And GCC supports a *lot* of crazy hacks. < 1256698850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i wish the bsds weren't so kernel-userspace wed, or I'd be using one :P < 1256698887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how quickly WebKit compiles with clang (excluding link time, since, you know, static binaries/libraries) < 1256698895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray for .a (does anyone even remember using .as recently?) < 1256698951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, you could check to see what Debian is doing to have a GNUy userspace on BSD. I can't imagine it being *that* crazy. < 1256698957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, it is Debian... < 1256698966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure, you can compile just the kernel < 1256698973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that the bsd teams maintain the userspace AND the kernel < 1256698979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1256698982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Roughly 50% of the time on average I think < 1256698985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the kernel will be developed according to the userspace < 1256698985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := a pain < 1256698999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what's that in response to? < 1256699008 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you wondering how long WebKit takes to compile < 1256699017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1256699021 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though GCC can be massively sped up with precompiled headers < 1256699022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50% of time as with gcc, that is? < 1256699026 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256699027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how long it takes with gcc, really :) < 1256699037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 minutes? two hours? < 1256699041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clang currently doesn't support precompiled headers for C++ and it's not on the todo list < 1256699042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 minutes? < 1256699058 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'd guess ~35, but that's pretty random and arbitrary < 1256699080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ~17.5 minutes with llvm/clang < 1256699083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that include link time? I imagine so < 1256699093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linking large shared libraries takes like 5 years < 1256699120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's a good point; anyone know any a.out linkers that can be compiled without dynamic linking support and aren't made by gnu? < 1256699123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think so < 1256699145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, llvm-ld can link? < 1256699147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1256699150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only llvm things, obviously < 1256699153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1256699158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1256699158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1256699161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The llvm-ld program has limited support for native code generation, when using the -native or -native-cbe options. Native code generation is performed by converting the linked bitcode into native assembly (.s) or C code and running the system compiler (typically gcc) on the result. < 1256699163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1256699202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold supports LLVM and native linking... < 1256699211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold also only supports ELF. < 1256699216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, really? < 1256699218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kinda lame. < 1256699219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1256699225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's why it's fast. < 1256699230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less abstraction. < 1256699236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And speed optimisations don't really matter when everything is static... < 1256699238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd do it. < 1256699242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since a static linker is, you know, really trivial. < 1256699256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like three steps removed from cat. < 1256699272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gold supports doing optimisation at link time *instead* of compile-time, FWIW... < 1256699288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; seems like a lot of complexity for little gain. < 1256699292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much stuff assumes /usr exists. < 1256699301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, so does llvm-ld. < 1256699308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a bit more pain to get working. < 1256699317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm-ld doesn't actually make a native code executable, though < 1256699320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, from what i gather < 1256699323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes an llvm bitcode file < 1256699347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can then compile that. Yeah. That's what makes it a pain. < 1256699363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Beats the pain of using gcc, though. < 1256699369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1256699376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, a regular user development system won't include gcc, hopefully. < 1256699376 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes compiling for different platforms easy < 1256699379 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1256699384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 ehird < 1256699385 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xscreensaver-command: no screensaver is running on display :0.0 < 1256699386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you can install it if you want to compile an odd program that requires it. < 1256699391 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xscreensaver: 20:09:02: running on display ":0.0" < 1256699397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: :D < 1256699413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I wonder if there's even any GNU software a typical system willl run... < 1256699417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ncurses < 1256699425 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xscreensaver is only locking one screen :( < 1256699434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: so run two < 1256699439 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't < 1256699443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1256699450 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could distribute packages in llvm bitcode and have the package system build them as they arrive - it's a short step and would make things 1000000000x easier < 1256699456 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xscreensaver: 20:10:50: already running on display :0.0 (window 0x1c00002) < 1256699490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But it shouldn't matter what's LLVM and what's not. Currently, my package manager's updating/installing process would consist of rsync and running a shell script. < 1256699496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would that help, iincidentally? < 1256699498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*incidientally < 1256699504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ah, bad software < 1256699509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme look at xscreensaver's site < 1256699511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: then you don't need to deal with ~8 platforms to build on < 1256699513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad jwz! < 1256699515 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256699520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ah, uh, i'm meant to support non-x86? < 1256699524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody informed me of this :) < 1256699526 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: eventually! < 1256699539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, I'm only targeting desktop machines and maybe servers < 1256699540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I'd still need the infrastructure for binaries < 1256699545 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1256699551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it basically comes down to disk space; the bitcode format adds more complexitty < 1256699556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9941/index.html still up for anyone but me? < 1256699558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*complexity < 1256699559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, migrating to that should be easy < 1256699566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Still up. < 1256699573 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also make the server do the bitcode compilation ondemand - even more complex though < 1256699573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1256699581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: quite < 1256699611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's a stupid idea, anyways. < 1256699612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the xscreensaver faq says nothing < 1256699618 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why? < 1256699618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why? < 1256699621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256699623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bitcode generated by C compilers is target-specific. < 1256699630 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not LLVM's < 1256699633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1256699639 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, really? < 1256699639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1256699646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, that is a stupid idae < 1256699646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*idea < 1256699652 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine then, store output in llvm assembly code < 1256699654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because sizeof( ) is done by the C compiler. < 1256699659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not LLVM. < 1256699660 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, good point < 1256699671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and *everything* that implies... < 1256699688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :store the output in llvm assembly? that still has sizeof() issues < 1256699692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is leaning further to a source distro! < 1256699699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would at least work if you were dealing with a language that's not C-esque. < 1256699701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, I said that before he said his objection < 1256699706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :P < 1256699722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, it's worth pointing out if the entire system were built that same way, it would work < 1256699727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, amusingly, turning it into a source distro would be easy enough < 1256699738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point the package manager to a local source instead of an rsync:// < 1256699747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just set up the package build environment < 1256699750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ download aaaaaaaaaaaall of it < 1256699757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, keeping the source in sync is then your responsibility < 1256699759 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1256699762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like hell will you get any support... < 1256699769 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upgraded xscreensaver and now it works properly :P < 1256699773 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you wouldn't give support in any place < 1256699774 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*case < 1256699775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b < 1256699778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bsmntbombdood: like magic! < 1256699784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: who says < 1256699794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: your history of being a jerk < 1256699794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm perfectly happy to help people who don't do stupid stuff to their system < 1256699809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of other people are jerks and still offer support < 1256699842 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the file that gets run when x starts? < 1256699850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Xsession or something < 1256699853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ixnit < 1256699855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xinit < 1256699855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget < 1256699862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your wm may also have an autostart system < 1256699866 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err de < 1256699879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, as long as you don't pretend you know more about the problem than you do and didn't do something really stupid, I'm happy to offer civil help... I'm not always a jerk, you know :P < 1256699879 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAs are confusing < 1256699885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bsmntbombdood uses ion < 1256699889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i somehow doubt it has such a thing < 1256699932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, forgot to include "install dependency packages" in my mental model of a package install < 1256699932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still dirt simple < 1256699954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256699960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, not necessarily needed. < 1256699968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware seems to do just fine without it. < 1256699971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably dump a really trivial dependency map elsewhere, too, so that i can remove unused packages < 1256699980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, but installing packages in slackware is a bitch. < 1256699986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1256700005 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a new bad idea < 1256700025 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a distro where there's no packages and every program brings its dependencies along with it? < 1256700027 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... that's Windows < 1256700032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple way to solve the "the autoremover thing wants to remove packages I explicitly installed!" thing: a fake package, say _explicit or something, depends on every package you explicitly install < 1256700040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and is a null package otherwise; not on disk, just in the dependency map) < 1256700043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Been done. < 1256700048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus: lets you ask it what packages you explicitly installed < 1256700053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's not windows, that's OS X < 1256700058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works quite well, fwiw < 1256700070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's the same thing as static binaries, really < 1256700072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that not windows? < 1256700082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows shit often puts stuff in shared directories and the like < 1256700088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas OS X things almost universally have it all inside the .app bundle < 1256700095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows puts stuff in shared directories haphazardly. < 1256700101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without regard for breaking anything. < 1256700103 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it necessarily kept those dependencies to itself < 1256700110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X has almost everything in the .app bundle. < 1256700117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, then that is of course a horrid idae < 1256700118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*idea < 1256700128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Linux assumes that what it needs has been installed already. < 1256700137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, or makes sure it gets installed) < 1256700159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proprietary software on linux is a bitch < 1256700160 0 :linf!n=nikita@93-81-25-85.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1256700166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis. < 1256700169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, that's pretty much... mathematica and games < 1256700172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the independent dependency model is fine as long as disk space is not a concern < 1256700179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linf: ha, we caught you < 1256700189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linf: Mr Russian music... is in #tokipona, and is n=nikita < 1256700190 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and mathematica isn't needed any more :P < 1256700191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It at least works, yes. < 1256700196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linf: IS THAT YOU, LAMENT < 1256700202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you trolling scoundrel, you < 1256700206 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1256700206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: replaced by what < 1256700211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: oh. < 1256700224 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: alpha and sage < 1256700228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: he was in here ages ago, being oblivious to the purpose of this channel and beingn incomprehensible. < 1256700233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*being < 1256700238 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1256700239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the .ru should have tipped off that it isn't you, though < 1256700246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but n=nikita + #esoteric + #tokipona seemed a fair beet < 1256700250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bet < 1256700254 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's pretty cool < 1256700260 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linf: zdorovo < 1256700281 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linf: ya tozhe nikita < 1256700288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: he doesn't actually know what this channel is for, I think he tried talking about russian folk music or something before, but i couldn't tell. admittedly it might be another linf < 1256700291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt _that_ < 1256700294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ehh < 1256700301 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lament: hahahahaha < 1256700303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sure, for the pure mathematics stuff < 1256700308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematica is still useful for some things though < 1256700313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, more importantly, it's fun < 1256700325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what things? < 1256700336 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has not really used mathematica
< 1256700360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. opening up images, applying various transformations, hooking it up into stuff from the web, then doing statistics on them and the like < 1256700370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a sort of "unified analysis and munging environment" < 1256700377 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematica does that? O_o < 1256700378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite entertaining with the right data set < 1256700389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, and it also connects to wolfram's servers to download a ton of data really fast < 1256700394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. historical gdps, and the like < 1256700398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a tiny function call < 1256700402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1256700412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dislike wolfram, and mathematica is really, really slow; but it's an awful lot of fun < 1256700443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: btw, did linf just find your name hilarious? < 1256700536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... proprietary graphics drivers are usually modules, right? < 1256700544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can link module binaries into the kernel, if i'm not mistaken < 1256700561 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can compile modules in or load them at runtime < 1256700566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1256700571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I explicitly want to leave out the module support < 1256700577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :module SUPPORT? < 1256700585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the runtime loading, that is < 1256700591 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1256700595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're basically dynamic libraries, except in the kernel, which is an even less fun prospect than in userspace. < 1256700610 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, you're mr. static < 1256700623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for good reason! i'm welcome to hear arguments for kernel modules. < 1256700626 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, as long as you include fuse < 1256700638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1256700644 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuse is epic?D < 1256700651 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?D/!/ < 1256700651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuse is a bit slow < 1256700661 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1256700672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by a bit i mean really < 1256700675 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't use fuse for normal filesystems < 1256700680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ntfs-3g < 1256700681 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use fuse for stuff like mounting an ftp server < 1256700682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you do. < 1256700713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which pisses me off; there's no good way to have a proper ntfs driver in the kernel nowadays) < 1256700761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anyway, if fuse doesn't increase the kernel size too much, I'll stronly consider it < 1256700763 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip72-211-145-161.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256700765 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1256700766 0 :linf!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1256700786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I do wonder if there's a 9P mounter thingy for the kernel) < 1256700789 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1256700792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd certainly be simpler < 1256700795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... you know what would be cool < 1256700797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel has 9P support. < 1256700805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how good it is, but it does have 9P support. < 1256700811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: a pony? totally < 1256700815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: huh, really? < 1256700824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1256700845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if anyone's made an X11-compatible thing that's better than X yet. ha ha, only joking. < 1256700847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin is a fuse filesystem where attempting to run an executable that isn't installed automatically prompts to install, installs if requested, and then runs < 1256700857 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: isn't that by definition impossible? < 1256700878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you'd think so, but the current Xorg is really terrible < 1256700884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could, at least, majorly clean it up and have minor functionality imprrovements < 1256700893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be possible to debloat Xorg, though. with enough effort. sigh < 1256700897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The amazing thing about Xorg is that it's an improvement over the past. < 1256700901 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: then you should have said Xorg, not X < 1256700904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xorg != < 1256700907 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*!= X < 1256700909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah whatever < 1256700925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll just only compile in the new-fangled thingy that only the unstable intel drivers support < 1256700926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use XFree86! < 1256700932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(amazing and very, very scary) < 1256700937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, the proprietary ATI driver doesn't support old cards at all nowadays < 1256700943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is — cards that were commonly used IN 2006 < 1256700952 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stabs FGLRX
< 1256700961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You stab fglrx, but have you used the open source drivers? < 1256700967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Amazingly. Slow. < 1256700974 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, but they were stable < 1256700989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, stable, but the jagged artifacts when moving a window slowly... < 1256700993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible. Just horrible. < 1256701000 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always disable compositing < 1256701007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. < 1256701009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was the same regardless. < 1256701010 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1256701014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how slow they are. < 1256701015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing that bad when I used it < 1256701032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, no way in hell will i use xfree86 < 1256701041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fglrx would hang if I attempted to run anything as difficult as glxgears < 1256701045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the license change shows them to be complete buffoons. plus it's totally dead and there aren't any drivers for it etc. < 1256701050 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted, half the time the open-source ones would simply give up at glxgears < 1256701066 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least they didn't randomly cause me to have to reboot < 1256701076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: fglrx DROPPED SUPPORT for my card from 2006. and I couldn't use an old version. Why? Because the only version supporting the new X11 version doesn't support my card. < 1256701089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, ATI to users of my card: Buy a new card or fuck off. < 1256701090 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256701102 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like ATI < 1256701111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least they released their hardware specs. < 1256701139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvidia have better proprietary drivers, but ATI support the OSS drivers more < 1256701167 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jagged artifacts? Bottom and top of window not moving in sync? < 1256701178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: basically the whole window out of sync, yeah < 1256701193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for windows of any size, even dialogs < 1256701201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was horrible < 1256701240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, anyone have any strong opinions on the default (and "official") FS to use? < 1256701252 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1256701258 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a fan of ext though < 1256701259 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bottom and top not being in sync is caused by lack of syncing the updates to Vretrace. < 1256701288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaning towards JFS; it doesn't seem to be hugely actively developed, but it's not abandoned, and it's like XFS, except it doesn't like to lose data on crashes, and is way faster at metadata (including creating files, etc) operations, making it one of the fastest "real" linux filesystems < 1256701306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fsck takes *3 seconds* — and that's when it has to recover some data < 1256701310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it recovers very well) < 1256701317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only takes 2 seconds for less data to recover < 1256701324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably almost nil time if there's nothing to do < 1256701377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty much not considering ext because I hate the multiple-minute fsck times more then the plague < 1256701403 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently JFS supports SELinux... < 1256701413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256701417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really planning to use selinux, though < 1256701430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too much fuss, too little gain; save the capability-based security for ehirdOS < 1256701432 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext fsck isn't usually very long if there's no corruption < 1256701440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: if you have a tiny disk < 1256701441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's problems, though... < 1256701446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes about 3 minutes, all the time, for me < 1256701456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and longer if it has to fix stuff < 1256701468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to that, 3 seconds when the system hard reset while doing stuff is godly < 1256701496 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big is your disk?! < 1256701516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, this one? 250 GB < 1256701540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the 3 minute figure is from the old PC, which has a 500 GB disk (and partition) < 1256701548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't use linux on this, at least not for extended periods of time < 1256701568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a consumer-level Athlon when doing that, though, and 2 GiB of RAM < 1256701575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's definitely the fsck being the bottleneck < 1256701579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the 500 GB disk is 7200 rpm) < 1256701593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bitch. < 1256701679 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If windows get severe jagged atefacts when moving, the video drivers must REALLY suck. I can only get some artefacts on this computer, video driver is pretty much the suckiest (fb) and hardware sucks hard. < 1256701698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah; it's the non-radeonhd (radeonhd doesn't work) open source one < 1256701701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :called ati or radeon < 1256701711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: this is 250GB, but it is partitioned < 1256701720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware is a radeon x1600, like a mid-range notebook card from 2006 < 1256701730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :releassed in 2005 i think < 1256701732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*released < 1256701747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: i mean, it's not hugely severe, but if you look at the edges you definitely notice it every time < 1256701757 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Moving window slowly uses something like 50% CPU. < 1256701816 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm... framebuffer < 1256701829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tasty like faeces! < 1256701837 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm... forbidden donut < 1256701849 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homer's second-best line! < 1256701874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first: < 1256701878 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One useful use of framebuffer. When X craps out (like if its keyboard driver(!) craps out), ALT-SYSRQ-R, ALT-F1. < 1256701882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm... something < 1256701889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I was going to quote The Odyssey < 1256701890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I cba < 1256702006 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, had keyboard driver of Xorg crap out... Without it working, CTRL-ALT-Fx doesn't work. < 1256702029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1256702053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, has xorg fixed graphics drivers so that if it craps out X doesn't die yet? < 1256702055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think so. < 1256702101 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, of course not < 1256702112 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Alt + SysRq + R < 1256702131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's, like, the best thing about windows vista. not that that sets the bar terribly high < 1256702173 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic SysRq? < 1256702209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a usb peripheral for linux that's a magic wand like the wii remote thing, right, and you can do gestures to do magic sysrqs < 1256702213 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1256702216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard-rebooting becomes merely a spell. < 1256702228 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1256702319 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256702327 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at xmonad < 1256702339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: dwm is the best of breed of the xmonad-types < 1256702344 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1256702344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dwm-types really < 1256702352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is < 1256702377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very simple, no retarded the-config-file-is-the-program-also-it-depends-on-ghc-because-fuck-you-we-like-haskell-config stuff, and yeah. < 1256702458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1256702459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEW dwm creates a view for each Xinerama screen. < 1256702464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should work well with multihead setups. < 1256702980 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256703138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that "the-config-file-is-the-program" would work much much better if Haskell had an eval function...
< 1256703145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1256703172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the closest you get to eval in Haskell is linking against GHC so you can use GHC's libraries to create a (small) interpreter. < 1256703189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmonad just compiles the config file < 1256703189 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256703200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I'm well aware. < 1256703202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I thought I knew C fairly well until I looked at some suckless code < 1256703210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm not dumb enough < 1256703216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I read some? < 1256703216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, my mind creates too many abstractions ahead of itself < 1256703245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Absolutely. http://dl.suckless.org/dwm/dwm-5.7.2.tar.gz is dwm; dwm.c is 2018 lines long in total. < 1256703250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only other code file is config.h < 1256703258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much to read. < 1256703276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's very impressive considering a) it's C b) it's C that *uses X11*. < 1256703279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's config.def.h technically, but you copy it to config.h and modify. < 1256703287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Absolutely. < 1256703307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To understand everything else, start reading main()." it gives a basic overview of some stuff before that, but I love that concept < 1256703311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's uber-procedural code < 1256703316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so procedural that you can just follow from main to understand it < 1256703317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this appears to be designed such that a straight Makefile is *actually sane*. < 1256703341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even make their manpage look easy :( < 1256703394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Holy crap that's nice C. < 1256703409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make C look easy. < 1256703414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY MAKE C LOOK EASY. < 1256703427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my reaction too :/ < 1256703560 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuh wtf < 1256703566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this... Is this what UNIX was meant to be? < 1256703594 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the very top, middle pixels are not visible on the monitor < 1256703674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the other programs whose code i think is very representative of suckless style are dmenu (menu selection/completion system; designed to be used to e.g. launch programs with dwm; http://dl.suckless.org/tools/dmenu-4.0.tar.gz) and ii (filesystem-based irc client; http://dl.suckless.org/tools/ii-1.4.tar.gz) < 1256703709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to see suckless create a C compiler.
< 1256703715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sic is too, but it's a terminal-based IRC client in less than 250 lines, so it's not surprising that it's very simple < 1256703723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think they'd point you to plan9's 9c :P < 1256703728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining something similar to tcc. < 1256703733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, plan9's C code. < 1256703738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, too, is pretty nice. < 1256703775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It helps that they get a library better than libc to work with. ;) < 1256703786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmenu, I think, has their largest seeming-task-complexity : code-simplicity gap < 1256703796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., it's the code that seems the most like it should be more complex < 1256703877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many (open source) hackers are proud if they achieve large amounts of code, because they believe the more lines of code they've written, the more progress they have made." -- Suckless manifesto. < 1256703905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that lines of code is more of an inverse metric.
< 1256703925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256703940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another good metric: count of data structures < 1256703943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and size of data structures < 1256703956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an example bot written for ii, incidentally: < 1256703958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail -f \\#/out | < 1256703958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while read foo ; do < 1256703958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : name=$(echo $foo | awk '{print $2}' | sed 's,<\\(.*\\)>,\\1,') < 1256703959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if awk 'BEGIN{srand(); exit rand()<.1)}' ; then < 1256703959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo "$name: WHAT??" ; < 1256703959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fi; < 1256703961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1256703967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :substitute , obviously < 1256703987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and add #channel/in, too) < 1256703990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1256703993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>#channel/in < 1256703995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, that's one of the things I like about Haskell: your code is succinct and can be very simple. < 1256704015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell code tends to be complex because the environment around it isn't haskelly < 1256704025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for algorithmic work, though, it's very simple < 1256704035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1256704055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, I wonder how big static binaries made with gcc are < 1256704059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably at least 20 MiB < 1256704072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the libc. < 1256704080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's glibc, "very large". < 1256704121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a point, I should pick a libc < 1256704127 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the meaning of ths < 1256704135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: define ths < 1256704146 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< bsmntbombdood_> the very top, middle pixels are not visible on the monitor < 1256704154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define not visible < 1256704157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :covered by bezel? dead? < 1256704163 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :covered by bezel < 1256704179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your monitor manufacturer doesn't care about you < 1256704187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they decided to make it look shinier instead. < 1256704192 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1256704193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.... < 1256704197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :729663 sort < 1256704199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ static < 1256704209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31828 sort < 1256704212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ dynamic < 1256704224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sort is this? < 1256704249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small program I wrote a few years back when I was just figuring out sorting algorithms in C. < 1256704251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's GNU, then it gratuitously uses half of the standard library just because it can. Also, glibc is huge. < 1256704259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, static gnu sort would be way bigger < 1256704267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame glibc, then < 1256704277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glibc is freaking huge, yes. < 1256704304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... looks like my libc options are dietlibc or newlib < 1256704312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not uclibc? < 1256704322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's really embedded-targeted, isn't it? < 1256704326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib is intended for embedded systems, but cygwin uses it as its libc < 1256704337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dietlibc, while mainly used on embedded devices, is optimised for small size < 1256704339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To an extent. < 1256704348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and omits uncommonly used functions) < 1256704373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uclibc's embedded support consists of the ability to disable uncommonly used functions. < 1256704378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And working on uclinux. < 1256704426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up newlib's license
< 1256704434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib is tempting because Cygwin uses it < 1256704445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Cygwin works with, well, not a lot, but that's Cygwin's fault < 1256704479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib is LGPL < 1256704485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's also GPL, but the lib itself is LGPL, I gather < 1256704504 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrr < 1256704510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dietlibc is... wait, what? GPL? < 1256704515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newlib's main tempting property is that it has been shown that many things can *use* it. < 1256704541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dietlibc is gpl, and it's intended only for static linking < 1256704541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1256704545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't virility apply? < 1256704558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*virality < 1256704564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would. < 1256704578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that suxx big butt < 1256704586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh, it's the readline argument, isn't it? < 1256704596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I linked a third party program against it? < 1256704600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they violating the GPL? < 1256704626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... Very fucking irritating to resolve. < 1256704648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, well, copyright is fucked. < 1256704664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LGPL's behavior in such cases is at least well-defined. < 1256704673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't want to play with fire. i don't believe in intellectual property, but that's for personal stuff < 1256704693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I guess dietlibc's out. < 1256704694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a shame, because dietlibc looks rather good < 1256704711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it has a subsystem named libcruft < 1256704712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i love < 1256704746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the code looks nice — I should stop before I get annoyed that it's GPL < 1256704775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uclibc is also apparently usable for 'most things'. < 1256704788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: GPL sucks! Now I can't compile my BSD programs with the diet libc! < 1256704789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Wrong. You can compile them, and you can use them. You just can't < 1256704789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : redistribute the binaries. If you are a distribution vendor and want < 1256704789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : to use the diet libc to make BSD licensed binaries for the install < 1256704789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or rescue floppy which you sell commercially, please talk to me. < 1256704805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, blow me, i don't give a fuck about your anti-commercial bent, i just want to make a distro < 1256704809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byebye dietlibc < 1256704825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Even Stallman doesn't support using the GPL for such a case. < 1256704841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More extreme than Stallman regarding free software = *facepalm* < 1256704848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: Can I compile or use the diet libc with a compiler that is not gcc? < 1256704848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Compile: no. Use: yes. < 1256704848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO, BLOW ME AGAIN < 1256704852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly probably most are like that < 1256704860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it even make sense to compile a libc with clang/llvm? < 1256704880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why not. < 1256704889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm does have some overhead, yeah? < 1256704900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1256704924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's uClibc vs newlib. < 1256704926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIGHT < 1256704926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO < 1256704927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE < 1256704928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEATH < 1256704934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only "overhead" is that LLVM "produces very slightly slower" code than GCC. < 1256704935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In computing, uClibc is a small C standard library intended for embedded Linux systems. uClibc was created to support uClinux, a version of Linux not requiring a memory management unit and thus suited for microcontrollers (uCs; the "u" is a romanization of μ for "micro").[2] < 1256704944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, clearly uClibc's development focus will be embeddedness < 1256704953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GCC has some optimisations that LLVM doesn't) < 1256704964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM produces better code in some cases, though. < 1256704967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1256704968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1256704970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, clang. < 1256704982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 May 2009, SVN -> GIT < 1256704982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've migrated from SVN to GIT. SVN is frozen read-only before the conversion, so check out the Developing links and such for updated instructions. < 1256704982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the uclibc guys are modern... < 1256704989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib is a red hat project with all that entails < 1256705003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"uClibc++" hey that's nice, a C++ lib too < 1256705044 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1256705057 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-142-65.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1256705062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The GNU C library is a great piece of software, make no mistake." —uclibc FAQ < 1256705065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1256705089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So uClibc is smaller then glibc? Doesn't that mean it completely sucks? How could it be smaller and not suck?" < 1256705089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm going to start calling such things "strawman FAQs" < 1256705135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, uclibc seems to function well for a system libc. < 1256705148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the faq is very embedded-oriented, it seems < 1256705156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems that uclibc is gcc-only < 1256705164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, you have to build uclibc-using programs with gcc. < 1256705191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's many things that clang builds just fine. ;) < 1256705204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but the gcc is *patched* < 1256705207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang supports most of GNU C, you know. < 1256705209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh. < 1256705212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a patched gcc to build uclibc binariess. < 1256705213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*binaries < 1256705218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even just binaries that use it < 1256705220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind. newlib it is! < 1256705259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully. < 1256705266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, newlib. < 1256705273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus eglibc for broken programs. < 1256705280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(STRFRY() OLOLOLO) < 1256705384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, then. < 1256705438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any hows < 1256705444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should be easy, then. < 1256705454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I'm unsure of how to handle is permutations of kernel configs < 1256705466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main distros usually solve this by a whole shitload of modules, plus a really large base kernel config, but that sucks < 1256705529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very large kernel or "build one". < 1256705540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which sucks less, I wonder...) < 1256705595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks I'll just include what people actually use as far as drivers go, plus perhaps separate kernel packages for graphics drivers, as they're the only big proprietary kind of thing, everything else should work ootb < 1256705609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, build one, it should be quite easy with the package system < 1256705640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Think I should use TuxOnIce? It's one of the hibernate/restore systems; apparently it can hibernate and restore in just seconds, which sure as hell beats the S2 stuff. < 1256705647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fedora uses it, I believe. < 1256705668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing is, you have to patch the kernel. < 1256705731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_T4ZcPkqVA it's still quite slow, though... < 1256705751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coming from an OS X background where it takes about 3 seconds either way < 1256705762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause it uses a hybrid suspend/hibernate < 1256705875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1256705880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how big my kernel will be < 1256705889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet around 2 MiB < 1256706015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so that's most things sorted < 1256706062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I need to find a decent linux system from which to develop it... < 1256706497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doo doo doo, ood ood ood < 1256706513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly I should use LFS to build it! No. No. < 1256706650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up what mailing list software suckless.org uses
< 1256706673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mlmmj. "maling list management made joyful". Cute name. < 1256706692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't make me rage when I wanted to post to it without receiving replies, so that's good. < 1256707242 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1256707248 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were right about the haskell < 1256707253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :told you. < 1256707280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to the dwm side! we have cookies. uh, actually, we don't. we have... lots of code? hmm. we don't have much actually < 1256707289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this stick if you want it. < 1256707298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good stick! < 1256707317 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell: gives you the willies < 1256707332 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-117-216.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256707345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with haskell, something wrong with using it as a configuration language thouh < 1256707349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1256707874 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-209-62.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256707884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :donkey poodle < 1256707898 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a donkey shaved as one shaves a poodle? < 1256707907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1256707911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a donkey that is a poode < 1256707920 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh < 1256707926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"skvm is a lightweight volume manager for GNU/Linux. It depends on hal and dbus." < 1256707933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this on the suckless code server < 1256707935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean hal and dbus, really? < 1256707940 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1256707948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not talking to you < 1256708005 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1256708012 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1256708019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: yes your momm. < 1256708022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mom < 1256708095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could've sworn HAL sucked sufficiently that most everyone was trying to replace it... < 1256708116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are < 1256708131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dbus is pretty heavyweight when you can just use more lightweight IPC < 1256708134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by pretty i mean really < 1256708150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it needs now is to require udev too :-P < 1256708200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dbus is meant work sanely with GNOME and KDE... So, yeah, it's obviously going to be pretty heavyweight. < 1256708360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i need to write an email client that sucks less, since all of them have such retarded approaches to threading < 1256708384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could've sworn that threading in general had retarded approaches. ;) < 1256708394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that kind of threading. :P < 1256708401 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1256708409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. That too. < 1256708417 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ehird, what's your approach to threading? < 1256708428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean mail threading, fwiw < 1256708431 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1256708441 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your idea(s) about it? < 1256708478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: threads don't nest, messages are displayed linear by date in one thread unit. optionally, I guess, above this, a reflection of where you are in the thread that scrolls with you that nests like a regular nested thread tree. < 1256708491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like gmail, except with that extra panel to make sense of complex threads < 1256708503 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay < 1256708515 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1256708528 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I totally don't understand the optional reflection < 1256708543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1256708548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know email clients that support threadin < 1256708552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just show a tree of authors/subjects/dates < 1256708557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the select-message list < 1256708559 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256708561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the message itself < 1256708563 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they know < 1256708572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, one of them above the linear thread, except when you scroll to the next messae < 1256708574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*messae < 1256708579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :message < 1256708583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reflection scrolls with you < 1256708587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can see the nesting around you < 1256708593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: various things, see: < 1256708598 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, that's cool < 1256708599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html < 1256708612 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume the nesting refers to replies? < 1256708619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In-Reply-To, and References. Sometimes titles. < 1256708624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: yeah < 1256708629 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, cool < 1256708659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there'll be a key in the inbox to switch from just-show-the-threads-and-not-the-replies (click to open it where you get into the view I just subscribed) and show-every-message-most-recent-first < 1256708666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the latter is useful e.g. when recordkeeping a nomic < 1256708671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have to know exactly what happened after what < 1256708677 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256708812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i say switch < 1256708816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you click on a thread in the message list < 1256708824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shrinks, the linear-thread appears below < 1256708830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the thread in the list expands < 1256708833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and starts scrolling with you < 1256708838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, switching threads is just a click < 1256708851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you scroll manually, it'll stop scrolling with you until you scroll it back into view) < 1256708891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the no-threading mode, it'll be the same, except expanding will do nothing since no message will have replies represented, and the linear one will just display one message < 1256708899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, of course, no auto-scrolling) < 1256709026 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh < 1256709033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i lost you < 1256709040 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1256709042 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it < 1256709048 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two separate displays < 1256709053 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one next to the other < 1256709053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"uh-huh" seems like "ooooh kayyy" to me :P < 1256709055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1256709066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one underneath the other, probably < 1256709070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1256709080 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, both are going "down", right? < 1256709088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1256709103 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just makes more sense to me to put them side by side, while using english < 1256709106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that subjects can be quote long; add the date and name fields... < 1256709108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you're right < 1256709124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact people dislike that OS X's Mail can only do it underneath, and there's more than one plugin that forces it the other way < 1256709129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to experiment < 1256709134 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1256709150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... perhaps putting the list at the right when you select a message is the thing to do < 1256709164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it has to be big to be useful, it'd just take up space on the left < 1256709170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd have to shift your eyes to the right after clicking < 1256709176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the thing you want to focus on moving < 1256709184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it went at the right, you could just click and read < 1256709196 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256709202 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in english) < 1256709214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shush you :P < 1256709218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dirty non-englishers < 1256709231 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1256709240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joking. < 1256709241 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I do wonder < 1256709272 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in, say, arabic, does time flow from the right to the left? (in models and diagrams and such) < 1256709282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question < 1256709293 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ask google < 1256709296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine so, at least pre-western influence < 1256709297 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know how < 1256709302 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256709303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :post-, who knows? cultural osmosis is a powerful force < 1256709310 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1256709322 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"timelines in arabic"? < 1256709324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and time-based diagrams probably weren't often used before the west came along and barged in, I imagine < 1256709330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: will get timelines about arabic < 1256709332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but give it a try < 1256709332 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"displaying time in arabic languages" < 1256709338 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will < 1256709482 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, I'll be damned < 1256709495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oyah? < 1256709499 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I image searched some arabic-time things < 1256709512 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I saw an image that reminded me of your threading idea < 1256709520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256709521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1256709531 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it's just a basic file-management scheme, but yeah, link < 1256709533 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/arabicdev/dotnetservers/SQL/images/sql_ArabicSupport_08_thumb.gif < 1256709551 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it reminded me, I know your idea is different < 1256709556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, yep < 1256709562 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256709568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that 1421 create date < 1256709571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rockin' it old school < 1256709573 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256709578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*old school < 1256709580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck keyboard shit argh < 1256709693 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :View the Solution FREE for 30 Days < 1256709695 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez < 1256709697 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that < 1256709704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1256709796 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1256709798 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curious < 1256709837 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems your theory was right, that I can't find any timelines made by Arabic-speaking people < 1256709842 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that just seems absurd < 1256709849 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there were Arabic astronomers < 1256709854 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Arabic historians < 1256709862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Western norms seem obvious. < 1256709893 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvious to us, because we read left-to-right and top-to-bottom < 1256709980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is < 1256709987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :western norms like "timelines" < 1256710004 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1256710019 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when an Arabic historian writes a theoretical narrative < 1256710025 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he goes from right-to-left < 1256710038 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what if he were to put a line, with dates, on the bottom? < 1256710048 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, google tells me that never happened < 1256710050 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256710073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just keep looking. < 1256710077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google is a bitch nowadays. < 1256710081 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256710120 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it started snowing! < 1256710145 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it keeps up < 1256710152 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, I always had the idea that one could simultaneously search for phrases-the-same-but-for one word, and in each search, the search engine would replace it with a synonym < 1256710157 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, snow, awesomes < 1256710180 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "forest of the dark", "woods of the dark", etc. < 1256710198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will kill if there is e.g. a song named one of the synonyms < 1256710204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could have syntax to omit one synonym < 1256710209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i doubt it'd help searching that much < 1256710225 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ha < 1256710240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256710254 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, do you mean my idea, or limiting the synonyms, wouldn't help searching? < 1256710323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former < 1256710336 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256710361 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I can see me using it for when I have an idea, and I want to check if someone else has already had it < 1256710382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather mechanical, though < 1256710385 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but! because we would have supposedly invent the idea independently of each other < 1256710386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much room for variation, and too much at the same time < 1256710395 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the terminology would be different < 1256710435 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syn:color syn:change pen < 1256710439 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1256710467 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that would also produce too many searches for one line if input to create < 1256710530 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256710555 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ha! now I get what you were saying in the latter half of your last comment < 1256710570 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....which is exactly what i just said :( < 1256710623 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"syn:seed num:2" "syn:phone num:4" < 1256710625 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1256710761 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Islamic_philosophy#Time I can't believe that's the closest I've gotten < 1256711078 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256711204 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm finding a bunch of early Arabic scholarly texts < 1256711220 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they most certainly included histories < 1256711240 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one apparently has a diagram of plant growth < 1256711248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voynich! < 1256711249 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but...I can't find any pictures < 1256711259 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! < 1256711266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(creeps me out) < 1256711274 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it does to me < 1256711286 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I still want to know what it says < 1256711292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know all the reasonable explanations, but there's something about it < 1256711301 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1256711303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes me uneasy < 1256711306 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cthulhu? < 1256711308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1256711314 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that would be crazy < 1256711337 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it just seems that the book describes...things and people not existent, ever, in our world < 1256711348 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the Shoggoth? < 1256711351 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so either it chronicled extinct things < 1256711355 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, yes, lament < 1256711356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop it, you're creeping me out < 1256711362 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't understand why infinity can't exist
< 1256711367 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256711369 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256711373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what does that even mean < 1256711374 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we live in the Universe, for crying out loud < 1256711375 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, I forgot I linked that < 1256711380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's either a joke or really stupi— < 1256711382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, stupid < 1256711389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, and the universe is finite < 1256711390 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we certainly live in a finite universe :) < 1256711397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: not certainly < 1256711401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just — almost certainly. < 1256711403 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, me forgetting I linked that made your comment extremely creepy to me < 1256711416 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we live in a finite universe that is expanding, and for all we know this expansion may be infinite < 1256711429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it will never be infinitely bi < 1256711430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1256711433 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we have a finite amount of the universe we can observe, but we're fairly certain it exists everywhere < 1256711434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no, the universe is finite in time too < 1256711438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1256711444 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256711445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: is there a difference? < 1256711449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: we don't know for sure < 1256711452 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mot really < 1256711455 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1256711458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there is a difference. < 1256711461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, but probably < 1256711466 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256711466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entropy and all that < 1256711470 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate the Big Crunch < 1256711484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entropy only matters if the universe is expanding infinitely < 1256711506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kinda think my priority would be to expand my 80 year lifetime before worrying about the end of the universe. < 1256711516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because everything becomes stretched so thin that there are no interactions does not mean it ends < 1256711516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, you know, buy a few billion years < 1256711545 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.strangehorizons.com/2003/20031222/december.shtml < 1256711553 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Santa at the end of the universe < 1256711556 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic, I would say < 1256711562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tldr < 1256711564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tilder < 1256711565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1256711567 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1256711570 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a short story < 1256711577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was joking < 1256711581 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay < 1256711590 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: the universe doesn't exist further than [the age of the universe] light years away < 1256711591 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in any case, the entropists are fundamentally stupid. The idea that entropy will eventually make the universe a 100% boring place relies on the idea that somehow a gigantic piece of rock will split apart spontaneously < 1256711599 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, lament < 1256711610 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the observable universe, not the /whole/ unicerse < 1256711610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster once had the audacity to say tl;dr to http://tunes.org/wiki/no-kernel.html < 1256711611 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why I said we can only observe that much universe < 1256711617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then expect me to restate it < 1256711623 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, coppro < 1256711629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: haha that's idiotic you are idiotic. < 1256711632 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/c/v/ < 1256711634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly, "entropists" < 1256711642 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: come up with a better term < 1256711645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"somehow" yeah it's called the universe's expansion < 1256711652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the whole sentence" wow this is idiotic < 1256711655 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how about, chaos worshippers? < 1256711663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVIL EARTH HATERS < 1256711667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEATH WISHERS < 1256711667 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have to assume that a point X light years away *also* has such a bubble of its own "observable universe" < 1256711677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPONTANEOUSLY RIPPED APART BECAUSE WE WANT IT TO ERS < 1256711682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: do we? < 1256711691 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think physicists do < 1256711695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what definition do we have of real, if not observable? < 1256711700 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1256711700 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: actually, we don't < 1256711710 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! okay, I stand corrected, lament < 1256711713 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256711726 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in that case that theory requires that the universe expand so quickly that the fundamental interactions can't pull matter back together. Which, I believe, we have shown won't happen because large collections of mass slow the exansion of the Universe. < 1256711727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :russell's teapot isn't real because, by definition, we can't observe it < 1256711759 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, ol' russell < 1256711764 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad he died :( < 1256711768 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1256711780 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: it holds for all the points *inside* the universe by relativity; and for outside points, we don't have to assume anything since they are never of interest < 1256711781 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the progression of logic is that < 1256711784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fairly sure russell was no EPISTEMOLOGICAL ANARCHIST, Oranjer < 1256711790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filthy authoritarian! < 1256711794 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, lament, what lament said < 1256711797 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1256711799 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256711800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i will give you shit about this on your deathbed!) < 1256711805 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww < 1256711810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not literally shit < 1256711811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1256711820 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would be doing the shitting on my own deathbed, thank you very much < 1256711832 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is what happens when you die :O < 1256711833 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I suck at typinhg today? < 1256711839 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you give birth :O < 1256711898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faeces isn't the only bodily fluid involved in death! < 1256711900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY NEW TOPIC < 1256711931 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1256711932 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: < 1256711933 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: february 23, 1997, sunday, final edition'". user:ling.nutling.nut 20:52, 19 may 2008 ( utc) < 1256711939 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, that's the topic < 1256711942 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go < 1256711948 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1256711953 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ling.nutling.nut < 1256711954 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1256711962 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's a diplodrome, for sure < 1256711964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINGG NUTLING NUT. < 1256711967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1256711968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capslock < 1256711970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also typo < 1256711972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also sdfjkhussdfkgnhndf < 1256712068 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! the Arabic world started making so much books because they captured some Chinese paper makers in 751 < 1256712073 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesomes < 1256712081 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad they didn't capture silk makers < 1256712222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plod Rome's Fun Diplodromes Fund < 1256712243 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1256712257 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay coppro, all finding out what a diplodrome is < 1256712447 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, my search for *any* diagram of time made in Arabic has been largely fruitless < 1256712449 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but! < 1256712476 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did find out that the "qibla problem" is the problem of determining the direction of Mecca at any point on earth < 1256712479 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256713048 0 :Oranjer1!n=Owner@adsl-243-209-62.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256713058 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh oops < 1256713087 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone say anything? < 1256713192 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{Oranjer} :O < 1256713200 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, okay < 1256713207 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hello, MizardX < 1256713317 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome: http://www.wowbagger.com/ < 1256713344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how'sat awesome < 1256713369 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an insult gen-o-ator, coppro < 1256713379 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1256713383 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's awesome < 1256713418 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1256713468 0 :Oranjer1!n=Owner@74.243.209.62 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256713982 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1256713983 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: yes this page is mostly duplicate material that already exits on the same comparable level, capable of carrying over 1500 men, but could use improvement to be more interested in continuing the traditional role of the person who deleted my link subsequently wrote: < 1256713995 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1256714012 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"capable of carrying over 1500 men" < 1256714082 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, that last thing you said made no sense. Care to elaborate? < 1256714082 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: am i just being anal here or am i misunderstanding how these things are explored in the article < 1256714088 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1256714102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANAL < 1256714104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1256714104 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp* youtube < 1256714109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1256714109 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1256714112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: babble < 1256714113 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: obsd should have it tomorrow), just store lambdas in the slots and you're back in .tw for the holidays. < 1256714129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I love OpenBSD! Just store some lambdas in slots and it transports you to Taiwan. < 1256714129 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: exploring new possibilities is nice, but sometimes it's necessary. < 1256714135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How is that a but? < 1256714136 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: " so that the text says ' o(1) fnord time you'll need links going both directions afaics he doesn't build the initial image) < 1256714141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What. < 1256714142 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: fnord udage! < 1256714145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: YAAAAAAAAAAY < 1256714152 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1256714155 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ran out < 1256714162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Went out on a bang. < 1256714167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A meaningless bang. < 1256714178 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord udage! < 1256714209 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, explain yourself! < 1256714209 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: must write something that idiotic again, i was < 1256714213 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256714215 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yoda < 1256714230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You were— < 1256714230 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i heard p2p apps are fundamentally illegal.) kala ( finn.) is preferable to just having name. < 1256714247 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256714247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Aww, but I dislike kala (finn.). I like normal names better. And P2P apps are totally legal! < 1256714248 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's not a language < 1256714254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What isn't? < 1256714254 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: now he told me when i have two questions for you about that < 1256714261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Ah. What are the questions? < 1256714261 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you need scheme48vm in such a way that is as simple as possible. the interpreter printed the return value < 1256714268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Agreed; simple VMs rock. And? < 1256714280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touchy. < 1256714285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Can you please explain the ehird? < 1256714285 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: mathematics isn't constructivist. i < 1256714288 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, answer ehird's question! < 1256714289 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: i just wanted to see if it halts, it won't let me change the port on startup? < 1256714295 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Of course it isn't! < 1256714296 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i did put x1 y1 x2 y2 in it < 1256714301 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256714304 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: now that's a start < 1256714305 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh dear, i shall have to leave any minute now < 1256714305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain the ehird? < 1256714312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Bots can leave? < 1256714313 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: or just ip and fnord lines long... part of the language's intrinsic control structures." < 1256714315 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, no! < 1256714316 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: i want to know precisely what you want < 1256714322 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh < 1256714323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the moving of the IP. < 1256714326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a coherent sentence! < 1256714330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute analogy, fungot. Hey, don't be so pushy. < 1256714330 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: of course you know that < 1256714333 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well done fungot! < 1256714334 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: as in " anything else is a compromise, a compromise would be to write a language < 1256714335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes fungot I know that < 1256714336 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used from famous program talisman with fnord windows to cascade, someone i would never capitalize " i" < 1256714340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1256714352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used from famous program talisman with fnord windows to cascade, someone i would never capitalize " i" < 1256714352 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i never realized how small scheme was ever aimed towards fnord removal of weakness and restrictions mentioned in the irc rfc, since it's pretty simple < 1256714357 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I want to preserve sentience by saving humanity by ruling the world. Precise enough? < 1256714357 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: sorry for the trouble, and i can evaluate... and force a return of the last < 1256714361 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98| ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used from famous program talisman with fnord windows to cascade, someone i would never capitalize " i" < 1256714361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: uhh... < 1256714365 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: as for soundcards, i have never encountered problems with becoming fnord by the object's implementation. < 1256714372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1256714399 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: try the proprietary drivers < 1256714400 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ( that is) it'd start to take pictures in fnord. 5 of the fold, collect, reduce, wapr ( use %help for argument information) < 1256714410 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: %help < 1256714411 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why not?...... about 300 wpm. i'm too lazy to look at the map. < 1256714417 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256714432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans have maps for driving < 1256714436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot has maps for typing < 1256714436 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: forgot to select cl coloring style there. i'm active more often, that is). < 1256714550 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1256714551 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: why? this channel has people with strong opinions. that's a press machine right? so its in a makefile called i-know-what-i-am-doing, does one have to manually specify it < 1256714564 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :niiiice < 1256714577 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that's a press machine, right?" < 1256714594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that makefile name < 1256714598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the advanced one clearly < 1256714608 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the last sentence looks like a geeky way of saying "shove off, I'm the expert" < 1256714620 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its in a makefile called i-know-what-i-am-doing, does one have to manually specify it? < 1256714672 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Oranjer < 1256714695 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1256714718 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what do you think about: human languages? < 1256714718 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: it's just a bit < 1256714724 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay! < 1256714749 0 :Glamseyes!n=Glamseye@c-67-183-202-252.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256714777 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256714856 0 :Glamseyes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1256714891 0 :Glamseyes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1256714900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1256715367 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1256716401 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256716799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1256716800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1256717186 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1256718175 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256719990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1256724925 0 :MigoMipo!i=c1b7fd21@gateway/web/freenode/x-sgywrvflninwcbcj JOIN :#esoteric < 1256726470 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1256728359 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-33-17.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1256730567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I didn't know facebook has a "English (Upside Down)" as one of the language options. ".əɔıoɥɔ ɹnoʎ ɟo əƃɐnƃuɐl əɥʇ uı ʞooqəɔɐℲ əsʍoɹq oʇ ɹəpɹo uı əƃɐnƃuɐl ʎɹɐɯıɹd ɹnoʎ ʇəS" < 1256730711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My font doesn't like that upside-down F at all < 1256730719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lacks a vertical line < 1256730753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're cheating a bit with some characters; approximating g with ƃ, latin small letter b with topbar. < 1256730764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works here. < 1256730853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ⅎ is U+2132, turned capital F = "Claudian digamma inversum", in the letterlike symbols thing. < 1256730864 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1256730878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://iki.fi/deewiant/tmp/f.png < 1256730959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/f.png < 1256733293 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256733459 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256733465 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256735551 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1256736191 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1256736463 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256738924 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1256739072 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256739612 0 :augur!n=augur@129.2.175.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256740160 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-209-62.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256740173 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot!!?! < 1256740174 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: if the fnord and patches and the vcs you use emacs? < 1256740184 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not use emacs, fungot < 1256740185 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: no, just a < 1256740196 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a what, fungot? < 1256740204 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1256740207 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256740213 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: that's reasonable in a way mit scheme isn't recognizing." " oh, first download and compile sdl_image. :) < 1256740226 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh < 1256740299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you need sdl_image in order to be able to use spaces in MIT Scheme. < 1256740302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd :D < 1256740311 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhh huh < 1256740330 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1256740331 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1256740334 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, irc < 1256740343 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style speeches < 1256740344 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg) < 1256740358 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what do you think of Keynesian Economics? < 1256740363 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256740369 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot! < 1256740373 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot! < 1256740376 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256740382 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I kill fungot? < 1256740420 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256740431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA* < 1256740452 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! you are evil! < 1256740481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just thinks you are boring company, and refuses to talk to you any more. right fungot? < 1256740486 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we have no right to exclude slavery from a territory, and fnord bray, remember me; and with an awe that is almost superstitious. i should be painted with all sincerity, and was loved by them; and whether we consider the conduct of the war. now that palled, and i know, that the hall of apollo. < 1256740511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's got be an *old* speech < 1256740520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most things in Gutenberg are. < 1256740524 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hall of apollo? Battlestar Gallactica? < 1256740528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(< 1860) < 1256740529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You sound so pompous when you talk like that. < 1256740529 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: quintilian applied to general literature the same principles, or precedents, of the secondary pleasures of the poor labouring man. fnord, who divided his attention between several exercises, though he constantly exposed himself to the public service and make the happiness of mankind. < 1256740565 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I constantly expose myself to the public service (workers) < 1256740586 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also make *the* happiness of mankind (pornography) < 1256740672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately the workstation's offline, I can't check what all went into that style. I think I just searched for the word "speech" in the title, and hand-picked some promising ones. < 1256740692 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1256740697 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1256740698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's at the very least "Selections from the Speeches and Writings of Edmund Burke"; Burke lived 1729-1797. < 1256740699 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: it yields nothing itself; it keeps all it has, perhaps, it may be further observed, that this great work would be dedicated to the proposition that all is safe, that he had studied much and travelled far. he had to combat frantic enthusiasm, boundless ambition, unquestioned courage, admirable sagacity. yet i have frequently observed in him a fnord copy of the book which has made the house of commons < 1256740736 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool speech fungot < 1256740738 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: " this association for fnord" < 1256740742 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256742289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1256742619 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1256742620 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: he counted and said it was fnord and fnord of a departed city, retained the privileges of the. < 1256742627 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1256742627 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches* ss wp youtube < 1256742640 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style pa < 1256742640 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics) < 1256742643 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1256742646 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1256742647 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: they can't actually check that. but, with a few rounds of onslaught daily, odds are good you could lead a normal life. and i never really told her how much... how much i... < 1256742659 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh < 1256742664 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style wp < 1256742664 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages) < 1256742670 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1256742671 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1256742681 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, fungot < 1256742686 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1256742689 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256743462 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1256743533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: fungot won't let you spam them < 1256743534 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped! < 1256743550 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1256743550 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: but, we are far outnumbered! < 1256743554 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256743556 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are! < 1256743564 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, there are other bots here (EgoBot and HackEgo) that you can use to circumvent it if you just want to chat < 1256743572 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1256743583 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256745021 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1256745021 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1256745787 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1256745803 0 :mtve!n=nnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256746844 0 :Oranjer1!n=Owner@adsl-243-209-62.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256746912 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256746921 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1256748007 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256748241 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256748304 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1256748700 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@AAnnecy-751-1-12-146.w90-52.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1256748814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Novell just appealed SCO vs. Novell to the Supreme Court < 1256748829 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-111.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1256748845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh, I should have seen that one coming < 1256748856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they haven't accepted it yet, though < 1256748861 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1256748939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: the whole SCO story is one of the most ridiculous litigations in recent history < 1256748952 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh < 1256748978 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1256748988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people got interested in the first place when SCO claimed that using Linux is illegal; that's pretty much been thoroughly debunked, but SCO have still managed to get various court cases going all these years < 1256748996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they're technically bankrupt, and have been for almost a year now < 1256749036 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay < 1256749105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's the litigation in which the judge redefined time, for instance; it's really absurd) < 1256749124 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1256749380 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1256749406 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-30-104.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1256749753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so... < 1256749764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the reason for appeal there? < 1256749764 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1256749772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hasn't followed the SCO stuff recently
< 1256749783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because SCO appealed the original SCO vs. Novell verdict to the state appeal courts < 1256749801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the verdict that came back effectively said that claiming that someone had given you the copyright on something meant you actually had it < 1256749808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is so absurd that Novell appealed it up to the level above < 1256749815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1256749815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying it contradicted loads of other verdicts < 1256749840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, how the hell could it have ended up like that < 1256749903 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256749981 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1256750011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that isn't even the weirdest thing that happened in the SCO litigation... < 1256750011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ehird would like to know about this, if he is still considering a thinkpad... < 1256750031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for log reading http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_high_pitch_noises#Limit_ACPI_CPU_power_states < 1256750042 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait what exactly are the SCO wanting to do? < 1256750054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: nobody's entirely sure any more < 1256750056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it happens in some rare (for me at least) workloads. Not otherwise < 1256750063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the leading theory is that someone's paid them to kepe the litigation going as long as possible < 1256750071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no real other explanation for their behaviour < 1256750077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but why < 1256750086 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1256750109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, SCO are famous for claiming that Linux is illegal < 1256750116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So MS? < 1256750121 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? it's opensource! < 1256750145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: SCO claimed that Novell had the copyright on UNIX, sold it to them, and that Linux infringes the copyright of UNIX < 1256750150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, um, some of the commands are the same < 1256750162 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOO HOO HOO < 1256750163 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1256750176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all three of the statements there are dubious; the first is the only one that's even likely to be correct < 1256750193 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what could possibly happen if Linux is made illegal? < 1256750202 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Linux user would care? < 1256750206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone would have to pay SCO $600 for the privilege to use it < 1256750208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd care < 1256750213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't, SCO's arguments make no sense at all < 1256750214 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256750229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Red Hat sued SCO over their statements, incidentally) < 1256750243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and also indemnified all their customers against them, which is /really/ unusual) < 1256750265 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh < 1256750373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCO also sued Autozone (for using Linux, but apparently they're going to settle that one), IBM (for contributing code to Linux that they claim infringes their copyrights), and Novell (for claiming that they didn't give SCO the copyrights in question in the first place) < 1256750384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suing IBM is widely regarded to be an incredibly stupid move < 1256750391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially given how tenuous their case is < 1256750969 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1256750980 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256751968 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1256752622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not to mention that IBM's legal team is notorious for being able to outwait anyone. < 1256752675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so is SCO's < 1256752686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, IBM's legal team is also notorious for winning < 1256752689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something SCO's hasn't managed yet < 1256752711 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1256752729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM outwaited the US government. < 1256752826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what? when? < 1256752850 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, pikhq, we want to know < 1256753155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1256753166 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq died < 1256753170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from pikhq: 1.33 second(s) < 1256753178 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1256753178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he can't blame it on connection issues < 1256753453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might not be here < 1256753459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often leave my computer on when I go elsewhere < 1256753483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I *usually* set /away when I do < 1256753767 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1256754219 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1256754629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a silly Python XChat script to listen to dbus notifications sent by xlock's startCmd hook so that it automagically sets away/back when I lock/unlock the screen. Sometimes boredom makes you do really useless things. < 1256754667 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no offense, but that sounds exactly like something fungot would say < 1256754667 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!!! the monster who kidnapped the princess to the castle! and letting these...hoodlums in here? traitors like you deserve from heckran! ha!! gotcha! < 1256754676 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...depending on the style < 1256754690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sword alone can't stop! < 1256754713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, no offense, but that sounds exactly like something fungot would say < 1256754714 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! < 1256754715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1256754727 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1256754734 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1256754736 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1256754741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1, keep ct for now please < 1256754746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hi there < 1256754746 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i see. you know, i really care... a time portal? what in the...! ozzie's stumped!! < 1256754748 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will, sure < 1256754755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, oh really? < 1256754756 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in the middle ages, sir slush!... i grow so tired. we can talk we had soldiers searching for! i've come to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! < 1256754760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ozzie gets easily stumped. < 1256754766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, so what about that sword? < 1256754770 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the usual...test them. you can entertain us for awhile? < 1256754778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that's relevant. < 1256754788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it? < 1256754795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from the Masamune cave scene. < 1256754801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh really? < 1256754808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the last bit too? < 1256754810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Direct quotation, I think. < 1256754819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checking. < 1256754843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, not really < 1256754876 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, AnMaster said not really < 1256754880 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256754881 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca < 1256754885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer1, eh? < 1256754885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1256754887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUNE: What should we do? < 1256754887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MASA: The usual...test them. < 1256754887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can entertain us for awhile. < 1256754888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1256754892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1256754896 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1256754896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, pretty direct quotation, except it put a ? there. < 1256754903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1256754908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, mhm < 1256754913 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! < 1256754917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1256754921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saving a stranger? < 1256754931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, so. < 1256754932 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you! take! we find! < 1256754939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I see... < 1256754940 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you! take! we find!? < 1256754940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The ? came from "You're breaking my concentration, so would you find somewhere else to go for awhile?") < 1256754946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1256754948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was weird < 1256754958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You! Take! We find. < 1256754968 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1256754968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah where is that from < 1256754972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a direct quote < 1256754980 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a rousing game of Steal and Seek < 1256754987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ayla, no doubt. < 1256754991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true < 1256754996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, *prod* < 1256754997 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... < 1256755003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't think so < 1256755035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, getting offensive. < 1256755040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256755049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still waiting for the sword one
< 1256755063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where exactly is the sword scene from? < 1256755084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's in the ocean palace, when you stick your stick into the mammon machine thing. < 1256755100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1256755117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I hit 4 someone else has to continue < 1256755157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and why the repeat thing on it? Doesn't seem to make sense < 1256755159 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1256755188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "You! Take! We find." is from two things; the latter half is from Ayla's "Not here too. Someone take! We find!" (from the sunstone sidequest) and the front part is from "You! Take care Ayla." < 1256755208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1256755215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I meant the repeat of "sword alone" < 1256755223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm checking that now. < 1256755252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I hope you're looking these up and not remembering them by heart < 1256755266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1256755278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: All the direct quotations are looked-up things, yes. < 1256755299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the guess that it was Ayla however was pretty given. (Or others from the same epoch.) < 1256755311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, was the sunstone a *side*-quest? < 1256755317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was required or something < 1256755361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's one of the six-or-so sidequests that you get at the end. < 1256755368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "required" if you want the Rainbow, though. < 1256755368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1256755381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1256755542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the repetition is actually "caused" by the variable-length model; it hasn't bothered to include the "can't stop it" ngram that would actually continue the sword-alone sentence correctly, and the most likely continuation for the single-word context "stop" is of course ! (there's quite a lot of "stop!"s around). Then when it has created "stop!", it always continues using the "stop! that" ngram, leading to a repetition of the sword-aloneness. < 1256755590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, what was the original exact phrase? "that sword alone can't stop it"? < 1256755596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1256755605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1256755688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Befunge code is pretty stupid in that it can only choose from the maximum-length ngrams it finds in the model; combined with the variable-length model which keeps only a couple of longer-length ngrams (those which are common, basically), it's virtually guaranteed to always use those whenever the context is suitable. < 1256755736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't hurt so much for the other cases where I've generated unpruned "all ngrams up to N=k" models with a constant k. < 1256755768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even there it does cause that tendency to quote verbatim pretty often. < 1256755831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The variable-length model estimator tool gives me back-off probabilities I could use to sometimes use a shorter context too, but that would need changes in the Funge-98 side, haven't had time to implement that. < 1256755930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might even be a Funge-98 randomness generation bug, in fact, because I don't get the loop from the Perl test script. < 1256755974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's 20 lines, none of them really looped: http://pastebin.com/m1ce086cc < 1256756014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this power is beyond human control! over 1300 points!" That's pretty funny. < 1256756123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, pretty. What does it do < 1256756125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that script < 1256756158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's supposed to do the same thing fungot's babble-generator does. Except that you can feed it some starting context if you want. < 1256756158 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends!!! < 1256756168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1256756174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you sure your randomness is completely random? < 1256756174 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!!! the monster who kidnapped the princess to the castle! < 1256756247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, funge programs can read cmd line arguments. So no reason to not use same < 1256756293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, yes, there is: I don't have the capabilities for mapping from strings to token numbers in the Funge-98 code. < 1256756305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, shouldn't be impossible :P < 1256756345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not, but it would still need to be implemented. In the Perl code it's just "slurp tokens.bin into a Perl hash variable"; in Funge-98 it's a bit more nontrivial, especially to do it efficiently. < 1256756364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slurp? < 1256756373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read. < 1256756401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implement a hash table library for funge < 1256756416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe binary tree < 1256756418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The other way around -- from token indices to strings -- I already do in Funge-98 to generate the final output, but that's just "seek to idx*4, read offset and length, seek to offset, read string".) < 1256756422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would likely be faster < 1256756427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generate a tree of w < 1256756448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, idx*4? < 1256756467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The offset+length values are four-byte objects. I think. < 1256756487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so where does it get the idx from? < 1256756515 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the babble-generator, which generates a sequence of idx numbers. < 1256758513 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1256759010 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1256759064 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-209-62.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256759092 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.101.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256759425 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.101.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256759503 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1256759929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungot: Are you sure your randomness is completely random? <-- maybe the issue is in the perl script instead? < 1256759930 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you! take! we find! you are crono. why not? then you should leave quickly! < 1256759944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 148 (No route to host) < 1256759945 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1256759966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see log today about thinkpads (if you are still interested in those) < 1256759974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the sysfs interface is missing in ubuntu at least < 1256759982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. < 1256759987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu doesn't have /sys? < 1256760003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it does. But not the relevant file for that issue < 1256760005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that the Perl script works better, I don't really care which one is "wrong", I'd be more interested to know just what the difference is. < 1256760008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is built in I think < 1256760015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can disable sysfs, I think. < 1256760017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, different seeds? < 1256760023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well. That isn't the point here < 1256760030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1256760031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it would break udev iirc < 1256760042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(static dev would work) < 1256760061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My distro won't have udev anyway :OP < 1256760064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1256760067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably will have /sys, though. < 1256760081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need it to control overcommitting and the like, unless i'm mistaking. < 1256760085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mistaken < 1256760106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway. ehird: for log reading http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_high_pitch_noises#Limit_ACPI_CPU_power_states < 1256760126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need kernel boot parameter to make it work under ubuntu < 1256760133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of affected models. < 1256760139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep. < 1256760155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is slightly higher pitch than a CRT I would say < 1256760184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Screen brightness: on an X31, a hissing sound is started whenever screen brightness is not full." < 1256760185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultraportable fail < 1256760194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed. < 1256760202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have no problems with *that* at least < 1256760224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Turn off CPU power saving in the BIOS" < 1256760225 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256760225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think a different seed is enough to make fungot more repetitive than the Perl script. (Admittedly I'm not sure it *is* more repetitious, it's just a vague feeling.) < 1256760226 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. < 1256760227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERRIBLE IDEA < 1256760230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1256760248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:26:04 Fortunately, there are other bots here (EgoBot and HackEgo) that you can use to circumvent it if you just want to chat < 1256760249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1256760250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway for it to be annoying on my laptop it needs something like 2000 wakeups / second < 1256760250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot ignores them < 1256760251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I'll open *your* hatch if you keep that up. < 1256760251 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword al < 1256760253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is rather rare < 1256760256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay finnay fungot < 1256760257 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i, myself, will bring an end to all. ghosts lurk in the ruins! the structural damage is severe. the tale? < 1256760259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally* < 1256760278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just something about ehird that the sword alone can't stop. < 1256760285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. < 1256760304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1256760307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hah! My awesome Linux distro will have, like, 3 wakeups/s. < 1256760320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. This isn't on idle for me anyway < 1256760343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some loads *does* result in lots of wakeups. In this case it was when doing md5sum on a file over nfs < 1256760349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where laptop was the "server" < 1256760353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah I had good reasons) < 1256760361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only issue with mine is that since nobody else is this minimal I'm on my own :P < 1256760381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are turning into zzo + elegant UI < 1256760384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's scary! < 1256760425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I'm not writing my own software < 1256760426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the distro < 1256760439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But yes, I'm crazy. < 1256760453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the installer and such? < 1256760458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although really, it's bare-bones enough that maintenance should be quite easy. < 1256760459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you reuse an existing one? < 1256760467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :package manager? < 1256760488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installer is, uh, copying the root FS, and then maybe some auto-configuration. < 1256760500 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1256760503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Package manager I'm rolling myself; I have the design mostly ready and it's very, very simple. < 1256760521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about selecting what components you want? Or is it "everyone get the same"? < 1256760527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Update or install package = Install dependencies, rsync from the package server's directory for that package to /, update the file list) < 1256760533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Update the simple dependency map) < 1256760537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsync what? < 1256760545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh uh < 1256760555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh uh what? < 1256760560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying something like rsync server/package / < 1256760563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you select components by — shock — managing packages. < 1256760566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pretty much. < 1256760576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some issues, what if a file is no longer in the new version? < 1256760598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and, there are other ones too. Technical ones. But sure go ahead. < 1256760599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Simple. < 1256760601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file list. < 1256760609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about signed packages? < 1256760614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It simply rms any files that have been removed. < 1256760615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you would want that < 1256760621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It does? I thought it just applies the 3-strikes-and-you're-out ignorance to everybody < 1256760628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 4 < 1256760634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Eh? < 1256760641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about fungot < 1256760645 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the masamune! < 1256760645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my package manager that does it < 1256760646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot ignoring *Ego* < 1256760646 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the real queen's safe, right! right. wrong! < 1256760658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1256760658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1256760658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: say ^ignore < 1256760661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see the regexp < 1256760666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Signed packages; eh. < 1256760673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, gpg key or such < 1256760673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I could do them. < 1256760674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore < 1256760675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody ACLs < 1256760677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore < 1256760679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'd be a pain, and it rarely solves much, IMO. < 1256760684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would be a bit of pain with rsync though < 1256760686 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ignorance there either < 1256760688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When have you ever seen a PGP error? < 1256760693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Huh. < 1256760698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I actually made it show the regexp at all; it just says "ok" when you set it. < 1256760705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. Due to invalid signature? A few times < 1256760710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For other reasons? Never < 1256760711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you just erase it :D < 1256760720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right, so, never because it's been compromised < 1256760727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^say fungot < 1256760728 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so; it probably looks for "^ignore " with the space. < 1256760729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a consideration though; thanks for that < 1256760737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But it's easy to do. < 1256760740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!say fungot < 1256760741 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered! < 1256760747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo fungot < 1256760748 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... lavos will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place... < 1256760750 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1256760751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently ignoring ^(HackEgo|EgoBot)! if my logs are right. < 1256760756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sign a file containing every file's SHA-1. < 1256760760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1256760764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The rsync goes to a temp directory instead, then checks them all. < 1256760772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila. < 1256760787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there are some issues with config files and rsync though < 1256760799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want your httpd config overwritten by new version? < 1256760807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to get the ability to diff and merge < 1256760812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Config files will be written by the package manager's install script if there is none. < 1256760828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1256760829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If the syntax or whatever has changed, or you really should have a new directive, tell the user. < 1256760842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Gentoo, according to pikhq, doesn't really have a culture of running the config-merger script < 1256760845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to do fine < 1256760859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly it's just an annoyance for me where I hit "keep my config dammit" < 1256760869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? "doesn't really have a culture of running the config-merger script"? There is dispatch-conf that pops up a diff and some options < 1256760874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make it use colordiff < 1256760877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really useful < 1256760890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portage tells you if there are any configs to merge < 1256760892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a tool, but pikhq says most users very rarely run it. < 1256760897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of the install/upgrade < 1256760904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:38:16 Gentoo has a script for merging any changes in config files. < 1256760905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:38:32 If you don't execute the script, it leaves your config files the hell alone. < 1256760905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:38:34 any? lemme guess, a generic merge tool < 1256760905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:38:37 yeah < 1256760906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:38:43 how often is script execution done? < 1256760906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:38:49 i mean, on average < 1256760907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:39:13 I get the feeling that generally, merging is unneeded, and when it's needed it's either really easy to do or a complete renovation, which can't be automated without a lot of pain < 1256760910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:39:14 I do it every time I upgrade, but that's just me being rather careful & paranoid. How often do most do that? < 1256760913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, huh. I always run it when portage tells me to < 1256760913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:39:20 Uh... Very, very rarely. < 1256760929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I can easily add a merging system. < 1256760929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I have /etc in VCS too < 1256760938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly all that dispatch-conf supports for that is rcs < 1256760944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably won't add signed packages at first, because they're not very important and simplicity is the #1 goal < 1256760950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so while I know the stuff is there I have no clue how to get it out without reading docs < 1256760958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etckeeper on ubuntu is cool < 1256760964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :versions your /etc and integrates with apt < 1256760988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My package manager will be a handful of rc shell scripts < 1256760998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, very easy to integrate with. < 1256761006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I might add some hooks to avoid overwriting on upgrade.) < 1256761012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh. I assume you got that idea from SourceMage (the package manager there being written in bash) < 1256761014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and my init system will be two rc scripts too... < 1256761019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope, just simplicity. < 1256761026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since 90% of it is just using stock tools. < 1256761037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might call a C program to update the dependency graph. < 1256761045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, trust me. It is not simple. Rather it is quite messy. I guess it might be better with rc though < 1256761048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(used for removing unused packages, basically) < 1256761060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because I imagine SourceMage's package manager is overcomplex, like all of them. < 1256761069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Slackware's is overcomplex because it's too simple. < 1256761078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leading to heaps of complexity when using it. < 1256761084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since sourcemage is, well, source based, it isn't trivial no < 1256761087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at it < 1256761096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even wrote something like doxygen for bash < 1256761101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to be able to maintain it < 1256761109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Braindead. < 1256761116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this thing, bashdoc, is written in bash of course) < 1256761122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I used bashdoc in envbot though < 1256761142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite nice < 1256761173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after some adjustments to make it generate slightly less "web around 1992" like output. < 1256761196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, let's see where my current design is... tiny kernel without modules + no initrd + static binaries + a.out + very simple filesystem hierarchy + lilo + no udev + no hal + init system is two rc scripts + package manager is just a few rc scripts and maybe a little c, very simple, rsync based < 1256761267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I want a long, exciting features list it should be all the things I *don't* do. < 1256761279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, weren't you going for a "no kernel" something? < 1256761284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that a different project? < 1256761291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a linux distro. < 1256761313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdOS is unlikely to be usable for *years*, being that it's still being designed.. < 1256761315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*designed. < 1256761319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is intended for me to use. < 1256761324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I forgot < 1256761340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ clang instead of gcc wherever possible + non-glibc libc (eglibc for things that REALLY need it) < 1256761375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm frozen at an old version of gcc since they dropped a.out support, too. So it'll be nice when the kernel can be booted with clang (two kernel patches builds it atm, but it can't boot). < 1256761385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebKit and KDE already compile with clang... < 1256761393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully WebKit will be stable compiled like that. < 1256761450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I mentioned, I'm crazy. < 1256761473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, at least I only have to deal with this crap when the assholes behind any project make a new release. :P < 1256761492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does clang do a.out? < 1256761499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang just does LLVM. < 1256761507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if LLVM does a.out. < 1256761510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you could compile the resulting LLVM < 1256761517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, duh. < 1256761525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is that it's up to LLVM. < 1256761534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I really don't know. I hope so. < 1256761566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1256761567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The a.out format has no direct support for debug information, but can be augmented with stabs, which uses special symbol table entries to store data.]] < 1256761573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully stabs are still supported, then. < 1256761601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main problem with this being a distro will be my general unwillingness to package things I don't like, methinks. < 1256761617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No KDE allowed! (And probably no GNOME because building that is a bitch, I gather.) < 1256761640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've built gnome-games, it went pretty smoothly < 1256761679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, we'll see. < 1256761755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if the various recipes for GoboLinux can be forced into being useful for non-Gobo.
< 1256761760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you want a.out? < 1256761778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF is overkill for static linking. < 1256761779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no good reason except possibly tiny size for embedded systems. And even there I'm doubtful < 1256761781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1256761788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well sure. But why static? < 1256761791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small size, really simple, I don't need dynamic linking. < 1256761796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because: < 1256761801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic means *less* to download at updatesa < 1256761801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He's all about simplicity. < 1256761803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updates* < 1256761804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://blog.garbe.us/2008/02/08/01_Static_linking/ < 1256761805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1256761807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And it doesn't. < 1256761819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, security patches I meant < 1256761820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamically linked glibc binaries? Bigger than statically linked newlib binaries. < 1256761835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about security fix for libpng or such < 1256761836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It doesn't work. Dynamic linking is a seemingly nice idea but it failed. < 1256761845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, just read http://blog.garbe.us/2008/02/08/01_Static_linking/. < 1256761850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about plugins that are dlopen()ed < 1256761853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll link to the Plan 9 wiki's page on it too, sec. < 1256761855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there *will* be such < 1256761855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't do them. < 1256761862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamic linking would be much nicer if it weren't for ABI breakage. < 1256761866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, forget openoffice for example. And firefox iirc. < 1256761879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's good, I'm not interested in them. But I could patch them. < 1256761884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots more < 1256761885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or make them depend on a dynamic linker. < 1256761891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice. Mostly shit software. < 1256761912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.garbe.us/2008/02/08/01_Static_linking/ < 1256761913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/why_static/ < 1256761917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like bash? < 1256761918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Context for the latter: Plan 9 is statically linked only.0 < 1256761920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.) < 1256761922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it supports that optionally < 1256761927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loadable modules I mean < 1256761930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plz2bereading. < 1256761932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh depends on it < 1256761932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So I'll disable it. < 1256761937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please. < 1256761937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read. < 1256761939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those two links. < 1256761993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to just note that pretty much all the problems I've had on Gentoo are related to dynamic linking. < 1256761996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to add on to the reasons in those two pages: It's simpler. < 1256762004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And less work for me, too... < 1256762006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most of the recompilation. < 1256762028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'd be surprised at how often ABI breakages happen in libraries) < 1256762030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" And, as Linus mentioned, TLBs matter. Hmm. Judging by 'ps', cat on linux < 1256762030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : needs 256 of them, and cat on Plan 9 needs 6." < 1256762035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. Just one thing < 1256762039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is because of GNU < 1256762042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu is bloated < 1256762044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit Sherlock. < 1256762052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that it's an invalid argument because it's the GNU retards that say this crap. < 1256762055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just compare to dynamically linked cat on freebsd < 1256762057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1256762061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is more fair < 1256762063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point < 1256762063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1256762064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your head < 1256762079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GNU idiots go "OHH DYNAMIC LINKING OH GOD SIZE" when it's their software's fault that things are so big. < 1256762106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I never had much problems with the "swap in bug fixed version" in fact < 1256762108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYU < 1256762111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FYI* < 1256762117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I'm just lucky < 1256762121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pikhq has. And many other people have, so yeah, lucky. < 1256762137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reasons in http://blog.garbe.us/2008/02/08/01_Static_linking/ are more philosophical than the Plan 9 link. And simplicity too. < 1256762139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run revdep-rebuild after every single emerge that upgrades a package. < 1256762150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ABIs break often. < 1256762174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, why the fuck does making Xlib using XCB break the Xlib ABI?) < 1256762236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yeah, XCB. I think I'll use that. < 1256762244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I seen programs without ABI breakage < 1256762255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? Woow. < 1256762259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean it doesn't ALWAYS break? < 1256762264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamic linking! FUCK YEAH! < 1256762264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABIs are very easy to break with C++. < 1256762275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE has to go out of their way not to, in fact. < 1256762278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, strangely enough for me, it didn't. Was rather confused why revdep-rebuild found nothing and so on < 1256762304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but yeah the last X update was flawless for me. Just needed to rebuild nvidia module (forgot about that first time around) < 1256762306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fun fact: change the private members of a class? That's an ABI break!) < 1256762313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is because C++ sucks < 1256762330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume something slightly saner like C when discussing ABIs < 1256762337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ sucks and it's also FUCKING HERE. < 1256762342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sadly yes < 1256762352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you consider C++ then yes dynamic linking is insane < 1256762355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want a great web rendering library? WebKit. < 1256762367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in C, at least you can prevent breakage without thinking about it *too* much. < 1256762368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The alternatives? Um, Gecko... which is shit... and also uses C++. < 1256762374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... yeah, C++ is mandatory. < 1256762376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no thanks. I'm happy with w3m-mode < 1256762388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking away functions, and changing the types of functions... < 1256762401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those are pretty much the ways to break C ABI. < 1256762411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming same functionality) < 1256762435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah and those you can pretty much avoid in a stable version. Bug fix only mode you know. < 1256762455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1256762457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least in practice) < 1256762463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :practise* < 1256762472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprising that people manage to screw that up. < 1256762482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. Aspell accepts both "practice" and "practise" < 1256762482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1256762488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders which is correct
< 1256762499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, using static libraries should reduce most of my package dependencies by a ton... < 1256762499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I don't need to depend on libraries. < 1256762524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes. I agree that it is strange < 1256762541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Both are correct. < 1256762543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I haven't seen too much ABI breakage in C apps (unlike C++ ones) < 1256762553 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the highest resolution display you can get? < 1256762556 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a t221? < 1256762558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hell, with static libraries you only really need to think about build-time dependencies. < 1256762565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not true. < 1256762567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, eh no < 1256762568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can depend on binaries. < 1256762571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, scripting languages < 1256762573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Single LCD panel, yes. < 1256762573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. Right. < 1256762575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, say, python < 1256762579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, data packages < 1256762580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And /share stuff. < 1256762581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like tzdata < 1256762584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256762599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes the problem significantly easier, though. < 1256762600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Why? Do you have ~$4,000 plus the few hundred bucks needed for the card to drive it? < 1256762613 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah < 1256762632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1256762637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Also, incredibly good eyesight? That thar pixel density be very high, good luck reading without forcing much larger fontts. < 1256762639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fonts < 1256762641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bets ehird didn't expect that answer
< 1256762645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'd like that 4 k$, plz. < 1256762666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well he did just buy a $200 display... so yes, rather unexpected. < 1256762684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, what is your job? CEO? < 1256762686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like 2 k$ nowadays anyway for a T221. < 1256762700 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, i just have a full time job and live with my parents < 1256762700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to be a CEO to have 4 k$? < 1256762702 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1256762707 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my income is disposable < 1256762752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do actually get a T221, that'd be beyond awesome. < 1256762776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.harmony-central.com/Test/wilson/two.jpg < 1256762777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You need to be a CEO to have 4 k$? <-- no. But to have so much to *waste* and don't care, maybe < 1256762785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just look at that real-estate on the right side. < 1256762799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the gamut of it? < 1256762805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Apple Cinema Display to the left is denser than most displays already! < 1256762806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How is it a waste? < 1256762810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gamut is good for 2001. < 1256762814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a professional monitor, after all. < 1256762820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But jesus christ, look at the size of that text. < 1256762824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely want to up the DPI settings... < 1256762837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes < 1256762843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, and you definitely can't complain about subpixel colour fringing. < 1256762848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a apple cinema display on the side? < 1256762850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large is it? < 1256762855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. 23"? < 1256762857 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised 3840*2400 is all you can get < 1256762857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1256762862 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially at such a small size < 1256762867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will be about 100 ppi. < 1256762870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that IBM monitor looks small. Maybe around 17" or so? < 1256762874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T221 is 204 ppi. < 1256762880 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 22.2 inches < 1256762881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22.2" < 1256762887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the ACD must be 30" < 1256762893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah that explains it < 1256762895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's larger than this display. < 1256762912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: But really, if you look at the text on http://www.harmony-central.com/Test/wilson/two.jpg, a lot of those pixels will go to waste foro text. < 1256762912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that is no imac < 1256762917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the fractals will look nice. :P < 1256762932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so will text with proper DPI settings < 1256762935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1256762942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can completely disable hinting. < 1256762946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also that high res concorde looks awesome < 1256762949 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200 dpi is just too much < 1256762952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will look soo life like < 1256762957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and antialias < 1256762958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1256762960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: No ppi is too much! < 1256762965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it's not quite that dense yet :P < 1256762967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a revised model of the original T220. Notable improvements include using only one power adapter instead of two" < 1256762970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm maybe < 1256762983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how much would be required for dropping AA? < 1256762984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need ~600 ppi to give up antialiasing. < 1256762989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1256762990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as in print, really. < 1256763027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants those desktop bgs though
< 1256763028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An issue with the T221 is that doing awesome smooth 3D animations on it will be very hard on the graphics cards... (you need multiple) < 1256763034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is such a shame. < 1256763044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hahhah < 1256763047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Oh, and the refresh rate sucks: < 1256763052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The supported maximum refresh rates at native resolution depends on how many TMDS links are used. Single, double, and quad-link support 13, 25, 41 Hz refresh rates respectively. With reduced blanking periods single, double, and quad-TMDS-link can obtain 17.0, 33.72, and 41 Hz refresh. This model's internal refresh rate is always 41 Hz." < 1256763052 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 41 hz < 1256763056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but wouldn't that 30" ACD require that too? < 1256763062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only 41 Hz if you use four links. < 1256763066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := moar graphics cards < 1256763074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1256763082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has a messy "list of displays by pixel density" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density -- and admittedly the T220 with 204 ppi is the highest you can still call a "screen"; the rest are tiny device displays. < 1256763085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the DPI of it? < 1256763091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 100. < 1256763099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's < 1256763101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1256763110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2560x1600 < 1256763110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :101.65 ppi < 1256763115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consumer-level cards can drive that today < 1256763119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With two DVI links < 1256763122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1256763124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 Hz < 1256763129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 9503-DG5 model had a native refresh rate of 48 Hz" < 1256763140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1256763142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The IBM T221-DG5 was discontinued in June 2005." < 1256763143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but good luck finding one of them on the market < 1256763148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them are discontinued < 1256763150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe < 1256763152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1256763155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want it used anyway < 1256763160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New, they're like $5,000 < 1256763251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Viewsonic VP2290b-3 is a rebadged version of this monitor.[citation needed]" < 1256763252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1256763262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:19:44 suing IBM is widely regarded to be an incredibly stupid move < 1256763262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No context required < 1256763265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is true < 1256763277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still in production? < 1256763297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows, who cares. Too expensive. Buy used. < 1256763338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anything like a 2D bitmap game would suck on it. But maybe scaling wouldn't look quite as bad as usual? < 1256763352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scaling would look fine. < 1256763356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1256763357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each pixel is so small that it'd look perfect. < 1256763363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No antialiasing required. < 1256763367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you don't need more than one card if the card's good enough. (Admittedly all "good enough" cards I see in the local retailer's web page take up two slots and have four-digit prices, so...) < 1256763417 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1256763474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:31:30 The sword alone can't stop! < 1256763474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT < 1256763527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:36:36 fungot, *prod* < 1256763527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:36:37 AnMaster: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... < 1256763527 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the usual...test them. you can entertain us for awhile? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1256763527 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! < 1256763527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1256763546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:38:04 I think it's in the ocean palace, when you stick your stick into the mammon machine thing. < 1256763546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is PG-13. < 1256763610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, you misunderstand, it's this glowy red thing. < 1256763781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" ehird: [...] our only hope." <-- why did this make me thing of star wars < 1256763781 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: like, thanks princess. i'll take that under advisement!!! < 1256763800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, you are confused about gender < 1256763800 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cyrus! are you leaving! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. < 1256763826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"let's toast our land"? < 1256763831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help me, Obi-Wan fungot, you are our only hope. < 1256763832 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! < 1256763836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1256763839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1256763863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it was "my", not "our". But still. < 1256763870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1256763898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you never played chrono trigger? < 1256763920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That PG-13 thing was a joke. But no. < 1256763926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1256763928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe you didn't either until you asked fizzie what ct was. :P < 1256763932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well worth it < 1256763936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed that is correct < 1256764068 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played Chrono Trigger... and Chrono Cross < 1256764149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can ditch /etc/hostname and just get the hostname from /etc/hosts. < 1256764233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally the init system uses sethostname(), I guess. < 1256764248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file itself is pretty superfluous, since the "gethostname" library function gets it from the kernel; as far as I know, the file's just used to sethostname on startup at some point. < 1256764440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of the host name, for some reason it annoys me when OS X automagically fiddles with the host name when I connect to interwebs via different wlans or gprsies. Makes the prompt all ugly. (Maybe I should just stick a fixed string in the prompt, though.) < 1256764543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to compile NetBSD's coreutil-type things on OS X
< 1256764559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Doesn't do that for me. < 1256764560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set the hostname, you know. < 1256764565 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1256764583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~]$ grep -r Bournemouth /etc < 1256764594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/hostconfig:HOSTNAME=Bournemouth < 1256764596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's "going away", whatever < 1256764613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then sudo hostname Bournemouth to kick it off, I guess < 1256764664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiddling with configuration files? How very not OS Xy. (I think I've set the "computer name" thing from the settings dialogs somewhere, though I can't be sure there's no hostname-setting somewhere in the networking setups.) < 1256764679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the GUI edits that < 1256764679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever < 1256764712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, then I'll just do sethostname(lookupdnswhateverthecurrentflavourofthemonthis("127.0.0.1")) < 1256764747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like I'll be writing my own init < 1256764770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't be hard, can it < 1256764776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel's done all that pesky booting and all < 1256764950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had an ext2 driver for OS X that can mount loopbacks. < 1256765027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about OS X's ext2 drivers, but if they are sensible enough, one would think that you could be able to just attach images with hdiutil. < 1256765046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Raw disk images from other operating systems (e.g. .iso files) will be recognized as disk images and can be attached and mounted if OS X recognizes the filesystems." Well, I guess that depends. < 1256765071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't actually exist, though. < 1256765084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't an ext2 driver that works in 10.5 as far as I can tell. < 1256765090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's literally an .ext2 < 1256765095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, great ... http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/bin/?only_with_tag=MAIN < 1256765100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All split up < 1256765104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/usr.bin/?only_with_tag=MAIN < 1256765105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder if you can ditch /etc/hostname and just get the hostname from /etc/hosts. <-- at least gentoo doesn't use /etc/hostname < 1256765107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even moreso < 1256765141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess weeding out the actual core utilities, getting them to build on Linux, and then working from that codebase is the thing to do < 1256765240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groan, I've forgotten how to use CVS. < 1256765250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1256765259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have I mostly < 1256765278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to do some kind of stupid login procedure that it somehow remembers the next command, don't you? < 1256765287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1256765293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1256765299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cvs login anonymous blah blah blahh < 1256765300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cvs checkout blah blah blah < 1256765308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds familiar < 1256765319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's really weird that it, you know, remembers your login the next command < 1256765322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone says ext2fsx's debug build works on Intel 10.5; nothing works on 10.6, though, and ext2fsx isn't the most trustworthy-looking piece of software there is. (sf.net "helpful review" #2: "Thanks for ruining my data. My drive is completely hosed.") < 1256765328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it is stored in $HOME/.cvspass < 1256765330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1256765336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, I saw that. < 1256765337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than "remember to next command" only < 1256765354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Still. < 1256765391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, svn stores login stuff somewhere too. All VCS has to store stuff like push/pull/whatever urls and such < 1256765402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all network enabled ones < 1256765432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the way it's "logging in" with CVS is weird. < 1256765441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1256765453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "hey, remember my server details", it's modelled as "log in to the server, check out, and forget about it" < 1256765454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I've found the CVS separate-login-step strange too. It's a weird place to split the checkout/"clone" operation at. < 1256765456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cat $HOME/.cvsrc < 1256765456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cvs -z3 -q < 1256765456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diff -up < 1256765456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :update -dP < 1256765456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkout -P < 1256765457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdiff -u < 1256765461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure what that means
< 1256765465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks relevant though < 1256765466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groan, cvs directories everywhere < 1256765482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~/Junk]$ mkdir bin; cd bin; CVSROOT=anoncvs@anoncvs.NetBSD.org:/cvsroot cvs checkout -P src/bin < 1256765485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worked for me, FWIW < 1256765488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without a login step < 1256765500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, setting CVSROOT? < 1256765504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1256765516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it hasn't remembered anything; good < 1256765516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1256765520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# $NetBSD: Makefile,v 1.22 2007/12/31 15:31:24 ad Exp $ < 1256765520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# @(#)Makefile 8.1 (Berkeley) 5/31/93 < 1256765520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUBDIR= cat chio chmod cp csh date dd df domainname echo ed expr hostname \ < 1256765521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : kill ksh ln ls mkdir mt mv pax ps pwd rcp rcmd rm rmdir sh \ < 1256765521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sleep stty sync test < 1256765521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.include < 1256765523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fuck you < 1256765528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not downloading your whole build infrastructure :P < 1256765540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# $NetBSD: Makefile,v 1.12 2003/05/18 07:57:31 lukem Exp $ < 1256765541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# @(#)Makefile 8.1 (Berkeley) 5/31/93 < 1256765541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROG= cat < 1256765541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.include < 1256765544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice Makefile, you cocks. < 1256765547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like: < 1256765551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/1 :pserver:anonymous@jsbsim.cvs.sourceforge.net:2401/cvsroot/jsbsim A < 1256765553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in cvspass < 1256765555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least OS X has bsdmake. < 1256765558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no that is no secret one) < 1256765572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I doubt anyone here is interested in jsbsim :P) < 1256765575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===> cat (all) < 1256765575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/Users/ehird/Junk/bin/src/bin/cat/../Makefile.inc", line 9: Malformed conditional ((${MKDYNAMICROOT} == "no")) < 1256765575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/usr/share/mk/bsd.init.mk", line 15: if-less endif < 1256765575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsdmake: fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue < 1256765575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Error code 1 < 1256765577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what my ~/.cvspass looks like too; four repositories, all have just "A" (for "anonymous"?) as the secret. < 1256765584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oookay, my bsdmake has thingies. < 1256765589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is some other one < 1256765589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it wants. < 1256765592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also anon < 1256765594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then who was invalid error? < 1256765598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/1 :pserver:cvsguest@cvs.flightgear.org:2401/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 AIbdZ, < 1256765611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it probably needs the whole build tree? < 1256765613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a guess < 1256765619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, I have that /usr/share/mk file. < 1256765623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is weird. < 1256765631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that on OS X? < 1256765631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it needs to be NetBSD's for some reason. < 1256765631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But. < 1256765634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why syntax error? < 1256765643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good question < 1256765645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X shipping with a bsdmake file that its bsdmake trips over on < 1256765647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very odd < 1256765661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1256765666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION compiles cat manually
< 1256765677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good code, incidentally. < 1256765684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the mass of indentation. < 1256765697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reaches 7 levels of indentation. < 1256765704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function, for, if, if, if, and line continuation. < 1256765723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1256765725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed an if. < 1256765731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function, for, if, if, if, if, line continuation. < 1256765755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~/Junk/bin/src/bin/cat]$ ./cat -? < 1256765755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./cat: illegal option -- ? < 1256765755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: cat [-beflnstuv] [-] [file ...] < 1256765765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about cat. I met someone mad recently < 1256765765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, it has cat -v :-P < 1256765773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who? < 1256765774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cat? < 1256765785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. Someone who claimed that a cat that didn't try to use mmap() when possible was basically shit < 1256765794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1256765806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy architects < 1256765812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(falling back on read() when mmap wasn't supported and/or the file didn't handle it, say, char device, standard input or such) < 1256765832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Methinks csh will not be part of my core utilities. < 1256765836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me, does that netbsd cat properly support -u? < 1256765840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just a stub < 1256765845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only POSIX option for cat < 1256765848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -u The -u option guarantees that the output is unbuffered. < 1256765854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it work? < 1256765854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may guarantee it by, say, doing nothing. < 1256765858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1256765870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, mmf. I'd prefer it had no options at all. < 1256765871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, freebsd one and gnu one doesn't do what you would epect < 1256765872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expcet* < 1256765874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, compatibility is king... < 1256765875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expect* < 1256765877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1256765884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most BSD utilities are almost identical. < 1256765910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cat -e is like the only one I ever use. Not sure if *bsd cat -e is same as gnu cat -e < 1256765917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[~/Junk/bin/src/bin/cp]$ cc cp.c utils.c -o cp < 1256765917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love how simple it is to compile < 1256765925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: -e and -v are evil. < 1256765930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -v doing? < 1256765932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forgot
< 1256765938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and -e is useful < 1256765948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e and -v are useful, but evil. < 1256765952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e is -v with printing endlines. < 1256765959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1256765960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cat came back from Berkeley waving flags" — Rob Pike < 1256765971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, those doesn't belong in cat < 1256765975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat should concatenate files; formatting them is outside its scope < 1256765977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably should be od or something like that < 1256765986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be scrub < 1256765988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other nice name < 1256765990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small utilities. < 1256765998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, scrub doesn't seem relevant here < 1256766001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrub for -v, scrub -n for newlines < 1256766003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I made it up. < 1256766010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant the name < 1256766015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of no such tool < 1256766017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It scrubs unprintables. < 1256766024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrub == cat -v; scrub -n == cat -e < 1256766029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, converts them to other chars instead < 1256766029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small utilities that do one thing. That's Unix. < 1256766033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1256766046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come up with a better name. < 1256766051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, scurb should probably have a "just remove, not replace" option then < 1256766058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it shouldn't go in od, either, because that's a kitchen sink. < 1256766065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and "unprintable". Clearly this needs to be locale and encoding aware < 1256766072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scurb xD < 1256766073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DIE, FOUL DEMON! < 1256766075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since in an UTF-8 locale it would differ < 1256766081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was joking < 1256766089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bringer of death and destruction! < 1256766089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1256766089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So was I < 1256766108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it should scrub the £ symbol btw < 1256766116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filthy mercans. < 1256766124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1256766129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1256766129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1256766132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filthy non-mercans. < 1256766133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am dum helo < 1256766139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know that < 1256766304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION compiles NetBSD's csh for shits and giggles
< 1256766311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is kinda pointless, I am, after all, on a BSD < 1256766322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it'll probably all run on Linux. < 1256766338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :csh is gross in more than usage; oh its code < 1256766379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yikes. csh doesn't build. Uh. Good. < 1256766571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish X wasn't so mandatory. < 1256766621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("The X server has to be the biggest program I've ever seen that doesn't do anything for you." — Ken Thompson :P) < 1256766788 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1256766917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm I guess openoffice actually *does* something for you then < 1256766935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does rape count as doing something *for* you? < 1256766944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good question... < 1256766968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, use NeWS? < 1256766974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Methinks not. < 1256767000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it isn't open source? < 1256767033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't run on Linux, for one; it isn't open source, for one; it's unmaintained, for one; it doesn't support modern hardware, for one; it isn't backwards-compatible with X, for one. < 1256767064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is your opinion on gnustep? < 1256767094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X's unpopular predecessor without the decent architecture? Maintained by GNU idiots? < 1256767099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1256767099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN < 1256767099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HARDLY < 1256767099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONTAIN < 1256767099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY < 1256767104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCITEMENT < 1256767109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1256767177 0 :fax!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1256767246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what distro and what hardware I should use to bootstrap. < 1256767373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god, there is a site called "boycottboycottnovell.com" < 1256767375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1256767377 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.101.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256767378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1256767382 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.101.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256767384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— oops — < 1256767549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1256767554 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.101.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256767555 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: style < 1256767556 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!!! the monster who kidnapped the princess to the castle! < 1256767558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS < 1256767562 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: style < 1256767562 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: the knight spirit has the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the hero! hurrah to the < 1256767567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stabs fax
< 1256767569 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurrah to the hero! < 1256767578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurrah to the hero that sword alone can't stop. < 1256767745 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1256767758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"boycottboycottnovell.com" <-- huh < 1256767822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boycottboycottboycottrecursion.com < 1256767861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endorseendorseendorseendorserecursion.com < 1256767886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1256767894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that was a new one I think < 1256767896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago (TM) < 1256767898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the sword this time < 1256767900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, same < 1256767909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, *tries to remember which theme it was* < 1256767916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balrogs < 1256767919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1256767923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is no theme though < 1256767932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not _yet_... < 1256767940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you think it might? < 1256767940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if steve summons enough of them... < 1256767991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they and cthulhu should form AAAS < 1256768002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAS? < 1256768010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ancient Abominations Against Steve < 1256768034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually make that AAAAAS < 1256768039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should finally give Gentoo a try... < 1256768043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ancient Abominations And Alligators Against Steve < 1256768050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, ugh, what a waste of time. < 1256768123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, you never tried it? < 1256768129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet said it was so bad < 1256768144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unehirdic < 1256768167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, unless Gentoo somehow subverts logic and reason — or everyone who has said anything about Gentoo that I've read lied — I deducted that it is bad. < 1256768168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it. Too many options < 1256768183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you are joking. < 1256768187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as in, you have three cron implementations to choose from in the standard distro < 1256768197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless, I'd bother trying it if it wasn't for the whole "LOL 24 HOUR INSTALL PROCESS" < 1256768202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several dhcp clients < 1256768208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Look at the massive size of our source-based ecocks" < 1256768209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is your choice < 1256768220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 24 hour to what < 1256768221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The simplest and smallest! < 1256768234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah you want to turn off most useflags then < 1256768244 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurrah to the hero! < 1256768255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needless to say I have more than usual ammount < 1256768265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE="3dnow acpi ccache sse sse2 pic nptl glep -gnome mmx pcre unicode objc bash-completion acl 3dnowext caps emacs cairo logrotate vorbis jpeg2k openexr fontconfig mozdevelop nsplugin ieee1394 lm_sensors fbcon dvdr sndfile javascript -java mysqli iconv gmp bzip2 exif cdb gd curl ogg truetype gdbm expat flac mad audiofile mng lcms idn dri mono scanner sqlite ppds -eds tcl tk nptlonly -ldap usb foomatic < 1256768265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :db tiff -esd -oss xpm -hal imlib -xml utempter idea mbox pdf mmxext physfs qt3support ipv6 xcomposite -kerberos kqemu zsh-completion gnutls iproute2 joystick dbus rle -apache2 fastcgi kdehiddenvisibility kdeenablefinal nodrm lyx loop-aes -arts geoip -branding -libnotify mmap -mysql webdav-serf sasl -bluetooth -openmp cddb pg-intdatetime -accessibility -ssse3 -consolekit -php" < 1256768271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1256768285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you have to do that just as i was about to chastise fax for spamming < 1256768288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird line breaking < 1256768303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how should I know < 1256768309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have known* < 1256768319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and it was two lines < 1256768330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not more < 1256768339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: telepathy < 1256768340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was two lines nobody really cares about < 1256768340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, -libnotify? why? < 1256768341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is just the global use flags < 1256768352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there are package specific ones in another file < 1256768361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like category/package foo -bar < 1256768363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1256768372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optionally with version specs < 1256768381 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan what the hell are you talking about < 1256768384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like >=whatever/gcc-4.3 < 1256768385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1256768394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if Gentoo still supports using uclibc...
< 1256768396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i should write a libnotify client/server/whatever thing that uses dwm's status < 1256768406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't see the point of libnotify < 1256768411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what good does it do? < 1256768417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: hurrah to the hero! < 1256768425 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1256768431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i was joking :D < 1256768434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god. A 2005.1 profile? < 1256768437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lets you know when you have been emailed / IMed / name mentioned on IRC. < 1256768438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to say "no". < 1256768443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I agree < 1256768446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh I'll probably bootstrap from arc < 1256768448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch < 1256768454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I remember back before eselect < 1256768459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wonderful < 1256768467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION never really liked eselect
< 1256768483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds eselect tolerable, but would something better.
< 1256768502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the old manual way? < 1256768515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it is tolerable < 1256768531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit slow, always wonder how they managed that < 1256768538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shell script. < 1256768545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not python? < 1256768553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1256768555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1256768579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, opinion on pkgcore? And on paludis (spelling?) < 1256768619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never tried either. < 1256768651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, paludis depends on boost you know? And is written (from what I have heard) in rather bad style. As in "worst of C++" < 1256768657 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: style < 1256768657 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: you! take! we find! that sword alone can't stop, crono! are you leaving! < 1256768660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkgcore is quite nice < 1256768672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I'm not < 1256768673 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! are you leaving! < 1256768674 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the most esoteric language < 1256768676 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1256768676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know that boost makes using C++ not make you want to kill yourself too much, right? < 1256768680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least if you're good at self-delusion. < 1256768682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, mu < 1256768685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, internally... but... < 1256768713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, sure, but a package manager depending on something so prone to ABI breakage < 1256768722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, it is unclean in other parts < 1256768735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABI breakage! Hooray, static binaries. < 1256768742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that Portage is much better, AnMaster. It uses Python... < 1256768746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the main dev is quite... rude against everyone who disagrees with him < 1256768758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Static binaries — never worry about your package manager being broken! < 1256768759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true, but generally that breaks less < 1256768766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1256768775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, arch used to have pacman.static but iirc it was dropped < 1256768884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, you can even manage your packages from a linux boot floppy. :P < 1256768893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean a really pathological one. < 1256768897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise that's nothing special. < 1256768940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDEA: Statically link the kernel into every binary! < 1256768946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what? < 1256768954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would only work if you could easily hotswap kernels < 1256768955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or create VMs < 1256768957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurrah, hurrah. (It's a combination of "Hurrah to the Hero and Guardia!" and "Peace at last, thanks to the Hero! Hurrah for the Hero! Hurrah for Guardia!".) < 1256768964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, every binary in its own VM would be decent for security < 1256768997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Total portability, though! < 1256769009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Perl script again doesn't get stuck in a loop: http://pastebin.com/m73626919 < 1256769010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would actually work tolerably on a non-x86 system. < 1256769013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a bit of pain for usability < 1256769015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because you'd need some OS-independent way to run the kernels < 1256769021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what with pipes? < 1256769026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, you need to compile the bootloader in too < 1256769027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/with/about/ < 1256769035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, multiboot? < 1256769044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And the CPU microcode. < 1256769049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the CPU microcode interpreter. < 1256769056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you would need an universal binary to support different platforms < 1256769058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: multiboot as in simultaneous multiple boot < 1256769062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and the VHDL for the hardware < 1256769063 0 :Oranjer!n=Owner@adsl-243-209-62.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256769065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1256769067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1256769068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You just include the hardware. < 1256769068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, or the Verilog < 1256769074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the VHDL emulator < 1256769079 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1256769080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a linux binary < 1256769082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO REPEAT < 1256769084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, RECURSION DETECTED < 1256769085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1256769087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinitely sized! < 1256769087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1256769093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack overflow. < 1256769097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't give GNU ideas < 1256769102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get your computer to build new computers to run the applications on < 1256769116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, this conversation is a good reflection on Feather < 1256769116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rep-comp? < 1256769127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like reprap for computers < 1256769135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much < 1256769149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how is it a good reflection on Feather? < 1256769165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the infinite regress of emulation layers < 1256769168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather manages to simulate that < 1256769176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes < 1256769180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by retroactively adding more stages to the regress whenever they'd ever become relevant < 1256769185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hurrah to the hero, he might be the one to bring forth an immense evil... ...humans make them that way." < 1256769202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any progress btw? < 1256769222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh? < 1256769228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, busy preparing for devnull < 1256769232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you planning to play? < 1256769239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1256769243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1256769244 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurrah to the hero! < 1256769246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exams coming up < 1256769261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no. But major tests < 1256769264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in various modules < 1256769270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :devnull? Rings a bell. < 1256769271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final tests in those modules < 1256769280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, NH tournament < 1256769317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus I never liked playing against people < 1256769322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: NetHack tournament < 1256769326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as in, I much prefer single player < 1256769331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I already told him... < 1256769338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that much lag is implausible < 1256769342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it thinks it's the longest-running Internet gaming tournament in existence, and nobody has sent it a counterexample yet < 1256769349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long? < 1256769355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it thinks nothing. < 1256769359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, counterexample of what? < 1256769363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1256769383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /dev/null has been holding an annual NetHack Tournament, beginning at midnight on Halloween, since 1999. This appears to make /dev/null/nethack the longest running gaming tournament on the Internet; folks who've looked into this have told us that they've found two other tournaments claiming this title, one at 6 years old and the other at 4 years old (as of the summer of 2008), so this may very well be the case. < 1256769384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... < 1256769402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh should that be "sent in" rather than "sent it"? < 1256769410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it thinks it's" < 1256769415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais is anthropomorphising it. < 1256769418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was anthropomorphising inappropriately < 1256769420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh < 1256769421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it certainly isn't the oldest, and it certainly isn't the one with the most games played < 1256769421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1256769430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't worry, it's very awkward and confusing to me too < 1256769452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what older one do you know of? < 1256769458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure they'd be happy to find a counterexample < 1256769460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, since 1999? < 1256769473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course people have organised tournaments before that. < 1256769478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might not still exist, though. < 1256769480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1256769496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the point is not when, but for how long < 1256769501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Quake II tournaments have almost certainly been organised before 1999; I don't know if any still exist < 1256769504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that. < 1256769513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:37] ehird: ais523: well, it certainly isn't the oldest, and it certainly isn't the one with the most games played < 1256769514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1256769524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was saying that it only has a chance of winning in one metric. < 1256769529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1256769530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1256769537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was the relevant metric for this discussion < 1256769552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just noting. < 1256769582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants a T221.
< 1256769591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realises he would need a new computer to handle it
< 1256769612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I doubt I could fit in high end enough graphics card < 1256769653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got PCI-e 16x? < 1256769664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this has AGP :P < 1256769674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, AGP was the thing when the T221 was around... < 1256769678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1256769690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geforce 7600 < 1256769712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway... get two Radeon 5870s... shit iwll scream. < 1256769714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*will < 1256769721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And a new computer to fit them :P) < 1256769744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I bust my budget at the screen alone already < 1256769758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1256769788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, one can always dream I guess... < 1256769793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5870 costs about $400 < 1256769813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd say $3,300 total expense could get you two of them and a T221. < 1256770022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No T221s seem to be for sale on the int'webs. < 1256770116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a T221? < 1256770126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very high-resolution display, IBM, circa 2001. < 1256770141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22.2", 3840x2400. < 1256770144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comes to 204 ppi. < 1256770145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1256770157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're lucky, you can get 41 Hz refresh out of it. < 1256770159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's an LCD) < 1256770173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less DVI links? 13 Hz. < 1256770185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(13, 25, 41 for single, double and quad DVI links) < 1256770204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 Hz for one model < 1256770215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, but that one's hard to get. < 1256770222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can imagine < 1256770223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I don't know if anyone had it. < 1256770225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1256770226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. < 1256770230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading it again, it would be easy. < 1256770233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's just a regular update. < 1256770236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1256770238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 48 Hz, pretty good. But still. < 1256770249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 48 fps max. < 1256770252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my normal TFT runs at 60 Hz iirc < 1256770265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All do. < 1256770271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apart from this oddball. < 1256770271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 Hz is better than TV still < 1256770276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On 19 March 2002, IBM announced lowering the price of IBM T221 from US$17,999 to US$8,399." < 1256770291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the guy who got it for $2,500 in 2004 is one lucky fucker. < 1256770335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1256770388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/topping/archives/000856_life_with_the_ibm_t221.html < 1256770415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codehaus.org/~topping/screen.JPG < 1256770417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a screenshot of his work space < 1256770422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notable is that TINY FONT in Eclipse. < 1256770431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, not Eclipse. < 1256770431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some IDE, anyway. < 1256770435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, IDEA. < 1256770472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, he got it for $3,000 < 1256770475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was a DG3 < 1256770505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I typically run by day it at max resolution, and by night, reconfigure it to 1920x1200. This is basically uses a 2x2 square of native screen for every image pixel and is a more standard resolution at about 100dpi (good for tired eyes!)" < 1256770507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, clever. < 1256770510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use that to play games. < 1256770522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good res for such a smooth scaling. < 1256770537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah: Ow, tiny! < 1256770540 0 :augur!n=augur@216.164.33.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1256771140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and augur kills the channel again < 1256771167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hi) < 1256771181 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1256771200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware should be illegal! < 1256771227 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256771235 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1256771237 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to own? < 1256771242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO < 1256771243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KNOWS < 1256771247 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1256771261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps ais523 http://www.emacswiki.org/pics/static/TabsSpacesBoth.png < 1256771276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and that's on emacswiki? < 1256771276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're in the matrix, and the matrix is recursive, then maybe there is no hardware < 1256771282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell emacs not to use tabs and spaces by default < 1256771286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you feel that way < 1256771287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mix < 1256771304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that doesn't fix other people's code. < 1256771326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on the page where they tell you how to configure it to use tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment. (At least; it might be on other pages too.) < 1256771339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's virtuals all the way up! < 1256771343 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how could the matrix be recursive? < 1256771345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't the same as indenting with both. < 1256771362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SmartTabs, that is.) < 1256771363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: by being simulated on another matrix, duh < 1256771373 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not recursive < 1256771381 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's merely nested, perhaps infinitely < 1256771399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ais523's reply to that is "tabs are 8 spaces wide always because i said so also everybody thinks this way so there" < 1256771400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... < 1256771408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's corecursive instea < 1256771409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*d < 1256771421 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant "recursive" as "matrix A contains matrix B, matrix B contains matrix A" < 1256771462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no, and recursion doesn't have to be identical levels < 1256771479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fac n = n * fac (n-1) never repeats an n between levels < 1256771481 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there could be any number of matrixes between them < 1256771486 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fac? < 1256771494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1256771495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial < 1256771496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial, sheesh < 1256771499 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ha! < 1256771513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and i know i'm leaving out the base case) < 1256771520 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1256771541 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1256771549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rotate your widescreen 90 degrees." fuck people who say this, i can't do that :< < 1256771565 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, oerjan, what do you mean by recursive matrices? < 1256771604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: i think corecursive fits my intuition better, actually. each matrix is simulated inside another, infinitely. < 1256771610 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractal < 1256771623 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinitely? < 1256771624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's on the page where they tell you how to configure it to use tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment. (At least; it might be on other pages too.) <-- That is The Right Way < 1256771633 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no "reality" that the first matrix is in? < 1256771642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: you are having real troubles with his joke < 1256771648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway sure there is PER MODAL REALISM < 1256771651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no first matrix < 1256771665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but it's a bitch because of idiots in any language but c. < 1256771671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*C, whatever < 1256771683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"because of idiots in any language but c"? < 1256771690 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this is a joke? < 1256771702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you count from the lowest level, where we are (unless our universe contains a matrix for another somewhere, which might be possible) < 1256771729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm then it could be infinite both ways < 1256771731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: protip: if the nesting seems strange, PARSE IT AGAIN < 1256771763 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presumed that's what you meant by infinite < 1256771771 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it reminds me of this short story: http://qntm.org.nyud.net:8090/?responsibility < 1256771779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i seemed sane. Just unehirdic ;P < 1256771781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyud.net? seriously/ < 1256771782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1256771784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway no I can't figure it out < 1256771787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try commas? < 1256771803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's more fun having you trying to figure it out < 1256771812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URL without nyud: http://qntm.org/?responsibility < 1256771818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bitch because of idiots)? < 1256771820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your loss < 1256771830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I've lost nothing < 1256771845 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay < 1256771849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes you did. Someone stole that while you were looking the other way! < 1256771860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buddhism, man! < 1256771867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Reincarnation, fucker < 1256771867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. NO DESIRES, FUCKER < 1256771870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. Fucker, fucker < 1256771884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buddhism is awesome because you can cheat at it! < 1256771892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just never become enlightened, ever, and you'll be reincarnated eternally. < 1256771915 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1256771957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hey i was remembering that story too < 1256771962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think you can be even when enlightened. Look at Dalai Lama < 1256771966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster didnt point to it < 1256771968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*didn't < 1256771968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, * Oranjer < 1256771973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what story? < 1256771976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What about him? < 1256771981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how's that cheating? < 1256771985 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/?responsibility < 1256771989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In religious terms, the Dalai Lama is believed by his devotees to be the rebirth of a long line of tulkus, who have chosen to be reborn in order to enlighten others < 1256771993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lama isn't enlightened, therefore < 1256772000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, just close < 1256772017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because the cycle is painted as suffering; you're meant to become enlightened, where you die the typical atheist no-more-you death < 1256772028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pretty sure enlightenment is like god mode (light edition) or such :P < 1256772028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rather, if you're enlightened when you die < 1256772035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong. < 1256772051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're enlightened, and you die, that's it, dead. < 1256772082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, source? < 1256772083 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nirvana! whoooo < 1256772111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shii.org/afterlife which, while old and inaccurate for other religions, was written by a Buddhist. < 1256772124 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra < 1256772127 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Samsara < 1256772138 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the Buddhist concept of the cycle of life, death, etc. < 1256772141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, cheating at Buddhism = FUCK YEAH! Reincarnation! < 1256772151 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1256772158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm being silly, Oranjer. < 1256772161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heed this. < 1256772163 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay < 1256772178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that MaxChaplin in the comments thought of the same solution as he did
< 1256772257 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1256772275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oerjan, what story? < 1256772279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still waiting for reply < 1256772285 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1256772287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He meant to target Oranjer. < 1256772294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1256772295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps I, who decrufted his link. < 1256772306 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/?responsibility < 1256772313 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there ya go AnMaster < 1256772424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sam Hughes is amazing. < 1256772433 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh-huh < 1256772506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-07-31 12:19:56 by Sam: < 1256772506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you people are talking about. There is a top reality. Because I say so. It's my story. < 1256772506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1256772508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: sam hughes = qntm.org < 1256772521 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I just found that out with google < 1256772897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.podtycoon.com/shutdown/ < 1256772901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Captivating. < 1256772942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost wished it were true. < 1256772980 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually had the theory that we were living in a documentary about the real Bush's life < 1256772989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop it! < 1256772992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go back to the page. < 1256772993 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY < 1256772996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you'll be randomly assigned. < 1256773001 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256773012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up, you fool! Go back! < 1256773014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No words! < 1256773203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Formalization of Darcs Patch Theory Using Inverse Semigroups" < 1256773205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally! < 1256773342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, done it. Selected online < 1256773346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night ↑ < 1256773348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too. < 1256773361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There'd be an opportunity to argue for AI rights later. < 1256773368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it leaves the possibility of virtual simulations. < 1256773379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus it's the only option which lets you contact the real world. < 1256773535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the most popularest thing. Though I have to wonder: why Finland? < 1256773548 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I also selected Online! < 1256773549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the author lives there. < 1256773557 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poof! < 1256773562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not according to his life-story page; http://www.fordfam.com/matthew/matthew_life.html < 1256773571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Stalker. < 1256773581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a reflex. < 1256773581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, because it's a techno-ish country? < 1256773583 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must not have been an AC. It just said "Poof!" < 1256773593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's it. < 1256773597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Online is basically the best idea. < 1256773597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Just wait— < 1256773600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's what it does for bots, to keep them thinking it's a joke < 1256773601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will redirect, and you're— < 1256773607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bots can't think. < 1256773610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What did you pick? < 1256773610 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: frog will do. that frog's hand! you got the broken! the mountain of woe. it's likely that dalton came from the laboratories to the west?... yes! well then rest and relax! huh?! well, remember that you can log in anywhere on the world map! need a brief weapons and items seminar? < 1256773613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1256773615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo must be a bot now. < 1256773618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there was a "frog" option. < 1256773629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must have stayed at Poof!, instead of waiting a second or two and it happening. < 1256773652 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we all bots now? < 1256773657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Online is the best option, although if you just want infinite bliss, dream or an appropriate religion's afterlife is good. < 1256773663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: Don't be silly! < 1256773667 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1256773669 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256773673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course we're not. You can hear me, right? < 1256773679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page is clearly just a joke. Pretty stupid one too. < 1256773680 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but am I "me"? < 1256773683 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256773683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are we wasting our time on this? < 1256773690 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you linked it < 1256773696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, it's retarded! Like a futurist's wet dream! HURFDURF < 1256773701 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1256773702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was linking to it because it's REEEEEEEETAAAAAAARDEEEEEEEEEEED < 1256773703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ehird's bot is acting the way it thinks ehird would pretend to be a bot < 1256773705 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're a bot tasked with finding the rest of the AC's!!! < 1256773707 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1256773715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thinks" < 1256773719 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1256773739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The bots are programmed to mock it" is so stupid because it DEFLECTS REAL CRITICISM; like YOUR MOM WOULD. < 1256773739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr < 1256773755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, furthermore, "And, furthermore, "And, furthermore, "Stack overflow < 1256773756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core dumped < 1256773788 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1256773816 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the devil put the fossils in the ground, and constructed the pre-christian religions" < 1256773819 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::OOOOO < 1256773832 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say it ain't so, preacha! < 1256773834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1256773839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1256773839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore me < 1256773839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm crashed < 1256773840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CRASHED BOT < 1256773844 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo ehird < 1256773851 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe bots aren't real people < 1256773859 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I said it! < 1256773866 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pro-bot < 1256773867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you think I don't believe bots aren't real people? < 1256773867 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1256773875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes you feel like ha? < 1256773887 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what no < 1256773895 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said anything about your opinion on bots < 1256773897 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only my own < 1256773909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you elaborate on I never said anything about your opinion on bots? < 1256773912 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "nooo ehird" was "oh no ehird you're a bot" < 1256773927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do the talking here. < 1256773942 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you asked me why I thought you don't believe bots aren't real people, and I responded by saying that I never said such a thing < 1256773959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you think you feel you asked me why I thought you don't believe bots aren't real people, and I responded by saying that I never said such a thing? < 1256773978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird's been replaced with ELIZA < 1256773981 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1256773990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you think that ehird's been replaced with ELIZA? Something from your childhood? < 1256773996 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1256774002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elaborate. < 1256774005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'll do the talking here. <-- fail. should be "asking" < 1256774007 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHHHHHHHHHH < 1256774008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in doctor < 1256774019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll do the talking here. < 1256774022 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1256774025 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird! < 1256774027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1256774028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you feel AHHHHHHHHHH? < 1256774029 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :save yourself! < 1256774036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, tell me more about save yourself!. < 1256774041 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1256774045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDE < 1256774046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD* < 1256774050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you say hahahaha? < 1256774057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, quit < 1256774062 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, did you and ehird switch consciousnesses? < 1256774063 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! < 1256774065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1256774066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Permission denied < 1256774070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1256774072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are not in /etc/sudoers < 1256774075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This incident will be reported. < 1256774079 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1256774087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no one reads system logs anyway (except me) < 1256774103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sends an email to root, actually. < 1256774112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1256774119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, good point. Maybe I should disable logs. :P < 1256774130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. Good for when things break < 1256774134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or malfunction < 1256774135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking. < 1256774142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some logs could do with disabling though... < 1256774161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but most people don't routinely check for non-whitelisted log entries < 1256774166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a script to do that
< 1256774169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1256774206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, I wish there was a good minimal coreutils replacement. < 1256774210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, list of regex, anything not matching in logs is reported to me < 1256774215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by mail < 1256774219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of digging through BSD source trees... < 1256774240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox? < 1256774247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and night night really < 1256774251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →→→ < 1256774261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busybox is not minimalist, it's useless. :P