00:02:20 I thought Feather was unimplementable? 00:03:01 Or are we waiting for the spec? Or is my memory pure crap>? 00:03:02 ? 00:03:26 It is probably implementable. 00:03:39 ais523 is implementing it to figure out what the spec is, I think is the basic idea. 00:03:42 Sometime. 00:04:45 Is making and distributing MIDIs of copyrighted songs considered copyright violation? 00:05:04 Probably 00:05:30 you know what shouldn't annoy me but does? 00:05:31 So AWI comitted copyright violations? 00:05:42 AWI? 00:06:03 Active Worlds Incorporated, I think 00:06:20 *committed, and I wouldn't call a victimless crime something you can commit. 00:06:21 When I get all worked up about downloading something that I feel really bad for doing (e.g. an indy game) and then discover it's on a CC license 00:07:19 ah, the guilt of one who, somewhere in their mind, has a vague, denied feeling that this amazing sharing technology can't be immoral but still deludes themself into thinking it is so. 00:07:21 i remember that! 00:08:33 ehird: I don't feel the same level of guilt for things made by idiot companies - it's only indie stuff 00:08:48 totally irrelevant to what i said 00:09:12 ehird: I was responding to the underlying sarcasm 00:09:25 actually, any underlying point had nothing to do with that either 00:10:20 Mutation (in Active Worlds) played MIDId versions of the Conan the Barbarian theme, Lothlorien, a Tomb Raider song, a FF7 song, a song from the Fifth Element, and probably some others I don't remember offhand 00:11:13 It's user-created, isn't it? 00:11:51 Is it really relevant? 00:11:57 Mutation, yes, although it was known to everyone 00:12:18 An AWI world did play MIDId versions of copyrighted stuff, though 00:13:24 coppro: Sgeo has an obsession about every aspect of old VR games (mostly Active Worlds) that borders on the creepily unhealthy. 00:13:38 ehird: yeah, I've noticed 00:14:09 AWGate played MIDId versions of Come on Eileen, Africa, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Closing Time, Flagpole Sitta, Another Brick in the Wall, Losing my Religion, Zoot Suit Riot, and much more 00:14:15 If it wasn't amusing I'd be tying him and Rugxlo or however you spell it together and dumping them in the middle of the Amazon 00:14:29 (and AWGate is owned by AWI) 00:15:51 a) yes, that's infringement 00:15:56 b) no one cares 00:16:34 "It is the responsibility of every citizen to ignore dumb laws." —Ian Clarke 00:18:04 Copyright is, more or less, a type of law that's designed to provide remedies for egregious circumstances and ignore the trivial ones 00:18:11 LOL 00:18:25 I have absolutely NO doubt that that was NOT on the minds of ANY of the lawmakers that produced copyright. 00:18:39 It wouldn't have conciously been in mind, no 00:18:55 And it fails terribly at that, FWIW 00:19:07 yeah, it does 00:19:10 I'd also disagree strongly that the circumstances it kicks in are egregious — *any* of them 00:19:15 because the Internet came and screwed everything up 00:19:24 They certainly are if you come at them from the old way of thinking... 00:19:36 Personally I'm not a fan of neo-Ludditism, though. 00:20:24 ehird: I'm talking things like someone mass-marketing copies of a film. 00:20:43 I gathered. 00:21:06 And probably you would be surprised to find out that I don't think copyright has a place there either. 00:21:11 No, I wouldn't be 00:21:15 because we've had this talk before 00:21:24 I disagree with your opinion, though 00:21:51 Nonsense; we all know that I am unable to have rational debate and just cover up for my ignorance with childish insults. Uh, unless that was another coppro. 00:23:31 *buys a trackball* 00:24:56 * ehird attempts to decide between writing his document authoring tool and writing an httpd 00:25:16 document authoring tool: more unique, less interesting 00:25:20 httpd: less unique, more interesting 00:26:40 httpd would be a lot more challenging, too, although perhaps easier 00:26:55 whats the point of either 00:27:01 i don't think that's a contradiction 00:31:39 to use. httpd is more of a fun reinvention thing, but document authoring tools are seriously subpar. 00:34:39 Agree! 00:54:41 wtf is a document authoring tool 00:57:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfV93ZMSmOQ&feature=related 01:08:46 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:49:09 -!- immibis has joined. 02:57:24 -!- calamari_ has joined. 03:05:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5lGOMYvxxU 03:11:49 -!- coppro has changed nick to __nick. 03:11:58 -!- __nick has changed nick to coppro. 03:12:19 -!- coppro has changed nick to __mikem. 03:12:24 -!- __mikem has changed nick to coppro. 03:14:08 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:14:31 I have invented a new power and a new feat. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/options/Backward_Heal.p http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Useless_Magecraft_%283.5e_Feat%29 03:14:46 Please review 03:17:36 -!- calamari_ has quit ("Leaving"). 03:25:12 -!- zzo38 has quit ("-____"). 03:45:06 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:46:56 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:00:09 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:14:25 -!- fax has quit ("Leaving"). 04:43:10 -!- immibis has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"). 05:26:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 05:26:15 -!- puzzlet has joined. 06:41:18 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:05:12 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 07:08:07 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Nick collision from services.). 07:08:18 -!- Gracenotes_ has changed nick to Gracenotes. 07:16:12 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:16:40 -!- coppro has joined. 07:38:55 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:58:20 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:09:39 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed"). 08:16:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:22:06 -!- cal153 has joined. 08:34:23 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:03:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:04:34 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 11:24:27 -!- jix has joined. 12:04:42 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:04:47 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:20:09 augur: probably the most boring thing i've ever heard 12:21:15 well okay the elements are great, but there isn't enough for more than a minute of music 12:27:30 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:45:27 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:57:26 -!- jix has quit ("leaving"). 13:03:15 -!- Asztal has joined. 13:21:47 -!- fax has joined. 13:25:56 -!- kar8nga has joined. 13:47:49 -!- FireFly[DS] has joined. 13:48:34 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:49:36 -!- Pthing has joined. 14:08:11 -!- jix has joined. 14:17:01 -!- FireFly[DS] has quit (Success). 14:20:02 -!- FireFly[DS] has joined. 14:26:49 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:30:38 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:57:23 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 15:37:49 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:48:17 is it possible to make a program that computes a random sequence if you have a halting oracle? 15:53:22 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:30:21 -!- jix has joined. 16:46:43 -!- augur has joined. 16:52:06 -!- FireyFly[DS] has joined. 16:53:08 -!- FireFly[DS] has quit (Connection reset by peer). 16:53:24 -!- FireyFly[DS] has changed nick to FireFly[DS]. 17:09:19 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:09:23 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:14:45 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 17:27:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:33:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:34:44 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:37:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:37:52 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:40:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:41:30 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:41:42 is it possible to make a program that computes a random sequence if you have a halting oracle? 17:41:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:41:52 depends on your definition of random i would assume... 17:43:15 random as in no pattern detectable by any computable program, maybe... 17:44:23 oh hmm a finite sequence is not random? 17:44:28 however, it might still be possible to detect it if you had a halting oracle of the next degree (for the language with the first halting oracle included) 17:46:10 hm with kolmogorov complexity a finite sequence is random if it is incompressible, isn't it. 17:46:23 ah okay 17:46:31 a halting oracle might be able to verify that. 17:46:43 anyway, reboot 17:46:44 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 17:47:20 in that case I think we could generate every terminating program (size less than n) that produces a length n sequence and take the biggest sequences 17:47:55 so you should be able to generate randomness (other than chaitins omega) with a halting oracle 17:50:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:54:02 mhm 17:59:29 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:13:18 Chaitin's omega is random enough. 18:23:47 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:24:08 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:26:55 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:48:10 -!- FireFly[DS] has quit (Connection reset by peer). 18:54:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:12:04 anything better than graphviz for making an ER diagram (needed for current module at uni. Otherwise I wouldn't do this) 19:12:21 graphviz is basically a pain for this. 19:12:53 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:13:06 * AnMaster wonders if ais523 knows 19:13:33 no, I don't 19:13:58 :/ 19:14:00 oerjan, iwc 19:15:28 once again, sound financial advice there 19:15:42 oerjan, in the annotation yes 19:15:51 there too 19:15:56 oh hah 19:19:38 * AnMaster is wondering slightly why neither inkscape nor firefox seems to handle underlined text in svgs. 19:19:49 I checked the spec to make sure I was correct 19:21:57 oh ffs. Now I'm really annoyed. I should have *known* CTAN would have something for it 19:22:33 didn't find it before though 19:23:22 PGF hm. Never heard of it before. Seems to be in texlive though 19:24:31 hm the ER part doesn't seem to be default. At least I can't locate that 19:24:40 -!- FireFly[DS] has joined. 19:28:13 oh yay /usr/share/texmf/tex/generic/pgf/frontendlayer/tikz/libraries/tikzlibraryer.code.tex is there 19:29:29 oh hm not texlive. Have it for some other unknown reason 19:42:53 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:42:56 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 19:45:44 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 19:45:47 -!- MigoMipo has left (?). 20:02:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 20:28:53 -!- FireyFly[DS] has joined. 20:32:06 -!- FireFly[DS] has quit (Connection reset by peer). 20:33:03 -!- FireyFly[DS] has changed nick to FireFly[DS]. 20:41:52 -!- FireyFly has joined. 20:44:32 -!- FireyFly has changed nick to FireFly. 20:48:39 -!- ehird has joined. 20:48:56 Huh, x'y" ~= x.y m 20:49:16 For a sufficiently vague definition of ~= 20:49:31 1'44" = 1.42 m, at least 20:53:29 * ehird nabs a Logitech TrackMan Marble for £20.07 20:53:32 And selecting x and y how? That's also 4'8" :-P 20:53:32 (including shipping) 20:53:34 16:31:39 to use. httpd is more of a fun reinvention thing, but document authoring tools are seriously subpar. 20:53:34 16:34:39 Agree! 20:53:34 for once! 20:53:51 Deewiant: Erm... ignore me, I'm ... stupid >_< 20:54:07 16:54:41 wtf is a document authoring tool 20:54:07 a thingy 20:54:09 :-) 20:54:15 a document format + a processor for this format 20:54:23 * ehird = HELPFUL 20:55:04 stupid + HELPFUL = dAnGeRoUs MaDnEsS 20:56:56 can't believe how cheap that trackball is :| 21:00:44 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 21:04:10 i have a fever 21:04:34 and the only cure is less stupid references 21:04:38 oklopol: oink! 21:04:42 it was fun at first to have such a different sort of imagination, but i cannot do math, not at all. 21:04:46 geddit geddit 21:04:53 oklopol: 2+2= 21:05:17 i don't get anything 21:05:26 and that's not math, i can execute algorithms just fine 21:05:57 everything is an algorithm! 21:06:13 well yes i mean i can execute deterministic algorithms 21:07:05 oklopol is not yet quantum 21:07:41 oklopol: everything is deterministic 21:08:01 just construct the simulated universe so that it has no patterns like the numbers you give to it as random! 21:10:56 -!- jix has joined. 21:11:15 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:12:07 i... don't understand you 21:12:55 nor i, oklopol 21:12:56 nor i 21:12:57 hey Gregor 21:13:03 yeah hey greg 21:13:06 i have two (2) submissions to t-rex is lonely 21:13:08 how's the party 21:13:10 1. the first two panels of today's comic 21:13:14 2. the first two and last panels of today's comic 21:13:26 title: 21:13:29 Backstory 21:13:32 did t-rex is so lonely continue? 21:13:43 http://lonelydino.com/ 21:13:55 dino is a cute word 21:14:19 horrible plagarism 21:14:20 http://lonelydino.com/?id=75 xD 21:14:31 fax: the word is plagiarism, and how on earth is it plagiarism? 21:14:39 it's a derivative work, yes; it's not plagiarism 21:14:52 And selecting x and y how? That's also 4'8" :-P <-- how many " makes up a ' ? 21:15:04 3i2 21:15:14 Should be inferrable from that exchange 21:15:21 Deewiant, too tired? 21:15:31 Or maybe he just doesn't want to hand you stuff on a silver platter 21:15:34 You'd've googled it in the time you've spent thus far 21:15:42 units(1) to the rescue 21:15:46 so 12? 21:15:51 Deewiant: AnMaster doesn't BELIIIIIIIIIEVE in google 21:16:04 ehird, correct. Like you said you didn't believe in paper. 21:16:40 That is true, out-of-context and completely irrelevant. 21:16:54 Congratulations. You have reached the Altar of the Stupid Trifecta! 21:17:49 it was just a creative no 21:32:10 -!- ehird_ has joined. 21:36:32 http://22.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kqd6xcT6AP1qzqhmeo1_500.jpg 21:46:10 Nice :-D 21:46:55 :-S 21:46:58 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:46:58 -!- ehird_ has changed nick to ehird. 21:47:13 ah colloquy, you and your ninja nick-grabbing 21:47:13 hm, auto-rename 21:47:15 nice 21:47:19 no ghosting for you, just wait... and... pounce 21:48:24 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:52:04 http://14.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ks8bucdZ4W1qz4rgro1_500.png 21:52:05 DEBIAN USERS: So generous 21:58:01 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:58:51 ehird: I don't get it. 21:59:08 Should have specified. Statistics from a pay-as-much-as-you-want system. 21:59:13 Game, World of Goo. 21:59:22 Ah. 22:00:20 Based on how many times the links generated to a given person were retrieved, or what? 22:00:24 http://2dboy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/bycountry.png 22:00:24 SWISS DEBIAN USERS: They love you 22:00:35 Deewiant: Presumably you can only buy one. 22:00:52 Nope, I got it and it gives you links for all the platforms. 22:01:05 In the pay-what-you-want system? 22:01:09 Yes. 22:01:15 Maybe they set up a "WHICH PLATFORM WILL YOU USE THIS ON LULZ" field? 22:01:19 I guess you'd remember. 22:01:21 Who knows. 22:01:22 I know, because I have the .tar.gz, mac one, and windows one. 22:01:30 WHAT DO YOU HATE DEBIAN OR SOMETHING 22:01:46 I don't actually recall a .deb there at all. :-P 22:01:49 You probably paid like -$0.01 22:01:54 But it's the same thing as the .tar.gz anyway. 22:01:56 Deewiant: DO YOU HATE RPMS 22:02:14 I don't really know enough about them to have an opinion. 22:02:25 Well they hate you. Because you PASSED THEM BY 22:02:28 IGNORED themm 22:02:38 Anyway, I paid $4 once and $1 once. 22:02:55 *them 22:03:11 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 22:08:00 -!- FireFly[DS] has quit. 22:14:00 -!- jix has quit ("leaving"). 22:14:54 -!- augur has joined. 22:35:01 ah, wb ehird 22:35:04 I haven't seen you here for a while... 22:35:09 indeed 22:35:10 have I just not been paying attention? 22:35:28 I was here on the weekend. 22:35:34 but not for a week before, thereabouts 22:39:00 Can anybody guess what causes this: "relocation R_X86_64_32 against `.text' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC". :-) 22:39:15 (ld error message) 22:39:32 Yes, you're using dynamic linking. Stop that 22:40:23 Adding -fPIC to line doesn't do anything to that error... 22:46:34 (answer: Trying to link X64 object file into X86 shared library). 22:47:30 Ilari: it says recompile with -fPIC, not re-link 22:47:44 but yeah, a bit obscure 22:48:12 unless you know that R_X86_64_32 means turning 64-bit code into 32-bit code or whatever 22:48:20 Actually, for that file, it is "Re-Assemble". 22:48:21 Deewiant: the fukka switches suck yeah? 22:48:39 or is it the XMs 22:48:51 I don't know which they were 22:49:08 i think fukka 22:49:28 the filco font is nice 22:51:02 http://i.imgur.com/mmw3Z.png 22:51:30 twatter or farcebook? 22:53:06 reddit. 22:53:21 rabbid 22:53:25 do you want a hee-larie-us corruption of that name, SimonRC? 22:53:29 i could give it a try. 22:53:36 *cough* 22:53:52 oerjan: shut up, they ruined the rayman franchise 22:54:02 22:54:40 22:56:08 google/wp to the rescue 22:56:21 hm is that like gnu/linux 22:56:36 or the other way around 22:57:06 that picture looks rabid enough 22:57:56 * SimonRC played Rayman 2 for the conworlding 22:58:03 and the music 22:58:07 oh gods that yes 22:58:16 i know: wrecktit! 22:58:42 *wreckdit might be better speeling 22:59:10 SimonRC: rayman 2's music is awesome 22:59:28 kinda silly thing to say, everything about it is awesome :P 23:00:13 it's even well-coded enough that you can run it in widescreen and there's no glitches... although you have to edit an .ini to set it 23:00:23 dunno if forcing anti-aliasing works; prolly 23:00:48 "wrekkit" 23:01:14 hm... 23:02:27 haha python sucks so much (correction: rc is so much cooler) 23:02:36 (for some things) 23:02:39 (THE ONLY THINGS THAT MATTER) 23:03:12 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:07:17 -!- AnMaster has changed nick to _[]. 23:07:25 <_[]> yay it was free 23:11:47 Do you feel more complete? 23:12:25 _[]: what language is that? 23:12:46 <_[]> ais523, my nick? none? 23:12:47 char _[] = "foo"; is valid C 23:12:55 <_[]> Deewiant, true 23:12:56 agreed 23:13:05 <_[]> it could be valid befunge too 23:13:12 Everything is valid befunge. 23:13:13 it's also probably valid Prolog, on the basis that most strings of punctuation marks are valid Prolog 23:13:14 <_[]> well, almost everything could 23:13:20 although IIRC square brackets can be an exception 23:13:29 <_[]> Deewiant, no. Not the bytes 1 1 1 23:13:41 _[]: It's valid. It's a program that never halts. 23:13:47 <_[]> ais523, probably valid perl? 23:13:54 I don't think so 23:13:57 <_[]> Dh, 23:14:01 let's see 23:14:05 _ is a bareword in that context 23:14:11 oh, it is valid Perl, in the right context 23:14:20 it calls a function called _ on a reference to an empty list 23:14:22 <_[]> ais523, it's the secret easter egg. to erase your harddrive 23:14:28 <_[]> ais523, XD 23:14:33 but that means you have to define a function called _ first 23:14:37 and nobody would really want to do that 23:14:54 as it's a silly name for a function 23:15:02 -!- _[] has changed nick to []_. 23:15:45 "sub _ {print shift,"\n";} _[]" gives me the output ARRAY(0x8f6d880) 23:16:00 []_ is probably a syntax error, though 23:16:13 Bareword found where operator expected at - line 1, near "]_" 23:16:16 <[]_> ais523, on top of all users lists but ##c it seems 23:16:24 <[]_> some [1]st is on top 23:16:24 who's before you? 23:16:28 ah 23:16:29 * []_ is too lazy top copy it 23:16:46 ChanServ's beating you on user lists where it's there too 23:16:50 so what is o good about the name _[]? 23:16:51 because my client sorts ops to the top 23:16:58 ehird: is your s key working properly? 23:17:06 ssssss 23:17:08 ehird: it's valid Perl! in the right context... 23:17:09 i think o 23:17:14 *rimshot* 23:17:23 **rimhot* 23:17:33 This channel is PG-13! sometimes. 23:18:29 anyway, I could do with some on-topic conversation, given that I've been teaching Java all 23:18:30 <[]_> * rizzuh is now known as [0]_1 23:18:30 <[]_> <[0]_1> YAY! 23:18:30 <[]_> Mortimon: what is nonworking? 23:18:30 <[]_> frickenate: maybe your platform doesn't really support getrusage 23:18:30 <[]_> <[0]_1> []_, in your face #2! 23:18:30 <[]_> * [0]_1 is now known as rizzuh 23:18:31 day 23:18:32 <[]_> hah 23:18:35 I need decontamination 23:18:47 ? 23:18:47 <[]_> ais523, I need to sleep soon 23:18:58 ais523: have you no ethics? 23:19:03 <[]_> ais523, and teaching java. eww 23:19:43 I have been coding Java a lot of the day. 23:20:02 SimonRC: yes, but you work for an enterprisey corporation and have no soul :P 23:20:05 woah, what happened to ? 23:20:06 ratehr verbose, and crap in some ways, but gives me a few new and interesting ways to think 23:20:10 the rest of the website is still there 23:20:16 but the homepage seems to have gone mostly missing 23:20:17 SimonRC: in much the same way as alcohol 23:20:35 23:20:46 ugh, not ddsh editor, he really is slipping 23:20:50 ehird: I work for a small company on an [Aa]gile team, but the company works for [redacted] who aren't too bright at times 23:21:17 ooh, is it agile as in strict methodology agile? sweet, it's like meeting a cultist! 23:21:33 ais523: i guess cc (that's his initials right?) gave up on life and jumped off a bridge or something, gotta tie up those loose ends beforehandn 23:21:36 *beforehand 23:21:37 for example, I would never have thought of testing C using mock functions had it not been for JAva 23:21:38 his server right? 23:21:40 ehird: clc 23:21:51 ah, claudio l. c.? 23:21:57 not as in CLaudio C. 23:22:09 I don't know how Agile we are, but we try to do things in tiny steps 23:22:13 ah, it moved 23:22:15 to http://clc.intercal.org.uk/ 23:22:21 and we do write unit tests 23:22:33 http://lepton.kuonet-ng.org/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz is down, btw 23:22:41 ais523: no 23:22:45 Your comment is subject to review, and will normally be included below: the review is simply to exclude unacceptable language (such as Java) 23:22:45 ais523: both pages previously existed 23:22:46 I think what we do is called bright people managed well 23:22:53 ehird: clc.intercal.org.uk is new since I last looked 23:22:59 ais523: hmm, no idea 23:23:03 (there was c.intercal.org.uk but not clc.intercal.org.uk) 23:23:10 I keep droping hints about Scala, but nothing is changin yet 23:23:16 SimonRC: what a great description; "we are clever and we do things well" 23:23:20 not 23:23:37 What is http://overload.intercal.org.uk/favicon.png, anyway? 23:23:49 I don't know 23:24:05 ais523: i wonder if c-intercal will work on my distro (probably) 23:24:15 I know marginally more about management than you do about processor design 23:24:22 ehird: should do 23:24:23 -!- []_ has changed nick to {}_. 23:24:27 also — 23:24:28 [[C-INTERCAL has long shipped with code to make it run better on Emacs; 23:24:28 clearly this is biased. This latest beta, therefore, includes support 23:24:28 for syntax-highlighting for vi, in the hope of redressing the balance.]] 23:24:28 this is a lie; vim is not vi 23:24:33 in theory, it should work on anything 23:24:37 ehird: ouch, good catch 23:24:37 <{}_> oh 23:24:40 <{}_> the reason for this 23:24:43 (Emacs is close enough to a synonym as GNU Emacs, but vi is not vim by a long shot) 23:24:45 clearly, the only solution is to patch vi so it works on that too 23:24:50 <{}_> is that {}_ and []_ maps differently on hyperion 23:24:55 <{}_> but won't on their future ircd 23:24:56 thus making the statement technically correct 23:25:06 ais523: they did that it's called elvis :P 23:25:16 oh, in that case the statement's technically correct already 23:25:19 and I needn't worry 23:25:20 no 23:25:22 I was joking 23:25:30 elvis is The Other Extended Vi 23:25:34 it isn't vim compatible or anything 23:25:37 and it's older than vim, IIRC 23:25:45 (elvis is more minimal than vim, naturally) 23:25:50 is vim genetically vi? 23:25:52 my guess is no 23:26:02 vim is kind of un-vilike 23:26:14 but people who want a vi just ignore the vimmy parts because it's the most modern vi clone at its core 23:26:41 {}_: http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Acme-Don-t-1.01/t.pm was linked from reddit today, I'm hoping the syntax will horrify you sufficiently 23:26:52 ehird: I'm the sort of person who'd rather have a vim than a vi 23:26:53 ais523: anyway, static binaries + a.out + tiny kernel with lots of things omitted and some uncommon choices + newlib + non-gcc compiler (probably pcc) 23:27:03 do you think C-INTERCAL would work? 23:27:13 ehird: if it doesn't, that's a bug 23:27:23 :D 23:27:26 in fact, if it doesn't work on a PDP-11, that's a bug 23:27:27 but do you think it will? I guess so 23:27:32 but I'm not entirely sure how easy that would be to test 23:27:51 (the reason the most recent release was marked beta was that it hasn't been tested at all on anything but Linux) 23:27:53 pdp-11 emulators are available, I believe 23:28:12 ehird: I went to a load of effort trying to make autotools act how it actually should act 23:28:15 rather than how it does ac 23:28:17 *act 23:28:18 ais523: I think I tried it on OS X at one point 23:28:19 and reported on it 23:28:23 all that portability effort has to go somwhere 23:28:32 <{}_> {}_: http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Acme-Don-t-1.01/t.pm was linked from reddit today, I'm hoping the syntax will horrify you sufficiently *looks* 23:28:51 that *looks* is very ambiguously attributed 23:28:57 ais523: don't worry, making this distro will result in my becoming an expert at mangling autotools systetms 23:28:59 actually there is a real PDP-11 online somewhere 23:28:59 *systems 23:29:05 and i will hate it 23:29:10 <{}_> ais523, it makes me laugh 23:29:10 you can toggle in your own bootloaders even 23:29:14 more fun, Perl doesn't exactly allow ' in identifiers, which might be your first reaction on seeing that 23:29:19 yet the code is still syntactically correct 23:29:48 sub don't (&) {} 23:29:55 How is it distinguishable from not allowing them? 23:29:57 very simple source, yes 23:30:01 ehird: it's namespacing 23:30:06 don't is legacy syntax for don::t 23:30:21 and the module itself is ACME::Don::t 23:30:22 :-D 23:30:28 I was wondering why it was Don::t 23:30:35 apostrophes are an ADAism aren't they? 23:30:39 SimonRC: yes 23:30:54 incidentally, Ada is very strongly one of the languages that INTERCAL isn't 23:30:57 <{}_> more fun, Perl doesn't exactly allow ' in identifiers, which might be your first reaction on seeing that <-- it doesn't? didn't know 23:31:11 ais523: C-INTERCAL does funny stuff with the stack, doesn't it? 23:31:11 {}_: seriously, how many languages allow ' in identifiers? 23:31:15 ais523: Haskell 23:31:18 yeah 23:31:21 FORTH 23:31:24 Special thanks go to Joris Huizer, Elliot Hird, Arvid Norlander, 23:31:24 I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU 23:31:26 ALGOL-68 23:31:27 >_< 23:31:30 <{}_> ais523, erlang? using backslashes 23:31:39 ehird: not really, it messes around with setjmp and longjmp but it's all in a strictly portable way 23:31:39 <{}_> ais523, like 'an\'atom' 23:31:40 ehird: ? 23:31:48 or common lisp using 23:31:50 | 23:31:51 as in |don't| 23:31:55 SimonRC: Two Ts two Ts two Ts! 23:32:00 <{}_> ais523, probably scheme too? 23:32:03 No. 23:32:08 Scheme has a'b as a (quote b) 23:32:09 <{}_> hm kay 23:32:16 ehird: what if you use vertical bars too? 23:32:30 ais523: portable in theory yes, but in practice? 23:32:32 oh, btw, I rewrote the elisp CGI script in Perl, to save my sanity 23:32:35 it only took about an hour 23:32:43 strangely, the result wasn't a CGI script, it turned out that that bit was unnecessary 23:32:43 joey hess reported a C-INTERCAL bug? haha 23:32:53 ehird: he /was/ its maintainer 23:32:54 for ages 23:32:58 I never kne 23:33:00 s/$/w/ 23:33:10 Debian maintainer, that is 23:33:14 so he was downstream, I was upstream 23:33:16 ah 23:33:27 <{}_> joey hess? 23:33:40 apparently he's done quite a lot of things 23:33:46 so it's ironic that I only know him via INTERCAL 23:34:27 Joey Hess is the main guy behind Debian-Installer, all-round Debian guy, Palm Pre hacker, creator of ikiwiki... 23:34:43 ikiwiki probably being the most publicly visible of those 23:34:53 argh accomplished people envy envy envy 23:35:42 i wouldn't call him exactly accomplished; he had a post on his blog recently about he pays for almost nothing by sheer luck iirc 23:35:46 I may be misremembering it slightly 23:35:54 cool, though, definitely 23:37:06 http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/nethack/ add another item: "nethack player" 23:37:56 I have a copy of his C-INTERCAL Debianisation git repo 23:37:59 to prevent it being lost 23:39:02 not that anyone at Debian's been particularly eager to unorphan the package... 23:40:34 I'll maintain a package for $distro_name! 23:40:40 :P 23:43:10 * SimonRC goes 23:48:13 <{}_> ehird, you could call it that 23:48:16 <{}_> $distro_name 23:48:19 methinks not 23:48:19 <{}_> i mean 23:48:23 <{}_> why not 23:48:28 <{}_> it would be nice 23:48:36 dns forbids me for naming a domain that. 23:48:40 *from 23:48:44 stupid standards. 23:48:58 <{}_> ehird, good point 23:53:24 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).