< 1258243210 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... there is nothing that has to do with chrome as such, just the tab closing < 1258243245 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it could've been firefox's "close all blah" < 1258243254 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome is not relevant < 1258243264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, you expect me to actually provide relevant _information_? you know how unlikely that is, right? < 1258243295 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is that a joke too? < 1258243301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1258243310 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that? < 1258243320 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs in terror < 1258243331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is either a joke or a tragedy. and i try to be spare on tragedies in this channel. < 1258243344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can see we are approaching one. < 1258243344 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but you shouldn't < 1258243395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that was not an appropriate use of the word "spare". < 1258243452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok there is also a slight occurence of completely trivial blathering < 1258243470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes turning into monologue < 1258243481 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"try to be spare on tragedies" sounds weird to me < 1258243492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. yes it is. < 1258243504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparing, maybe. < 1258243533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sparsom", i'm just not managing to convert it into english < 1258243570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frugal? < 1258243632 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just didn't get a joke, no use asking me anything < 1258243659 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also even with finnish i usually just google everything) < 1258243674 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with languages) < 1258243679 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh wait i guess finnish implies that) < 1258243890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wikipedia time < 1258244339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Other popular web development frameworks include CakePHP (for PHP programmers), Django (for Python programmers), and jQuery (for JavaScript)." < 1258244342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms < 1258245711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prods < 1258245714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still connected? < 1258245722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^ < 1258245733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how strange < 1258245750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lost connection and my IP changed, yet I'm still connected to this network < 1258245751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258245759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258245762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ipv6 tunnel, of course < 1258245762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258245843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1258245849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night →e < 1258245855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/e$// < 1258245870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nighte night < 1258246129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258246307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1258248307 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258248871 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258250131 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258250436 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_combinatorics < 1258250437 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258250497 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258250994 0 :Rei_Murasame!n=rei_mura@unaffiliated/rei-murasame/x-9412529 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258251004 0 :Rei_Murasame!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258251957 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: what about it? < 1258251970 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds cool < 1258252198 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. i agree < 1258252413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Caroline didn't exactly have these thoughts as I have set them down here;" < 1258252421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who uses I like that in fiction? < 1258252441 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a 3rd person story, I mean < 1258252614 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatorial_species < 1258255927 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258256388 0 :immibis!n=chatzill@203-97-111-43.cable.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258256736 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258257454 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258257680 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258258084 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258258136 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It implies that the narrator is a person existing in the universe of the story, not an omnipotent observer. < 1258258163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, the narrator isn't a person existing in the universe of the story < 1258258193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you ... SURE? < 1258258207 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he's somebody that a main character explained the story to a decade later, who then wrote it down. < 1258258301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finished reading the story < 1258258328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there was one (well, two) other characters around. Both were dead by the time the story ended < 1258258351 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..........I just spoiled something major < 1258258360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(:(:( < 1258258732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that all good fictional stories should end with every major character dying. < 1258258735 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way there are no loose ends. < 1258258869 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1258258872 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1258258978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, the fact that those particular characters are even capable of dying is a spoiler < 1258259074 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258259101 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably the fact that there is a question to whether these particular characters are even capable of dying is itself a spoiler. < 1258260292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, a spoiler to what the setting is, maybe < 1258262074 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091105041559]" < 1258262457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I feel that all good fictional stories should start with everyone dying. < 1258262460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258263754 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258264696 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258264701 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258267875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1258271241 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1258271999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1258272000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1258274648 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258274943 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_combinatorics < 1258275724 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258275751 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258276407 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258276411 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258278955 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258279428 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258279469 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tav.espians.com/paving-the-way-to-securing-the-python-interpreter.html < 1258279496 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few months old, but new to me. < 1258280174 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258281303 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258282484 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258287221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm once I get ick fully working on classic I should make some sort of installer script < 1258287236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks around for some "Apple Installer SDK" he has a vague memory of < 1258287729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn flex generates this just before the function: < 1258287731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifndef __cplusplus < 1258287731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern int isatty (int ); < 1258287731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif /* __cplusplus */ < 1258287765 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258287852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a function rather than a macro is needed < 1258288703 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258289229 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258289233 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258289604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is looking for an apple share sever for *nix < 1258289609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any idea? < 1258289647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be useful for keeping the ick thing in sync between emulator, real mac, and linux < 1258289655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, one working copy only < 1258291127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, the system headers with MPW are really broad. There is even stuff there for defined(__GNUC__) && defined(__linux__) < 1258291131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was quite unexpected < 1258291167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there is a "warning unsupported compiler" after it, but it then goes on to define various stuff for it < 1258291200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh mingw egcs? what the hell < 1258291225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and there seems to have been a gcc for mpw once upon a time < 1258291249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, that is yet another variant handled < 1258291292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and there is "visual C++ with Macintosh target" too!) < 1258291333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sun compiler. Okay these guys were crazy. half of these handled cases aren't even relevant for a mac... < 1258292510 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258294106 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1258294171 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258294946 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258295118 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258295120 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1258296406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW shell sure has strange commands (and command names): "Dolt - highlight and execute a series of shell commands" < 1258296438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I can't find any simple way to write \r or \n in it... < 1258297483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okaaay.... I found out, but it seems undocumented for writing LF. CR is ∂n but it seems that ∂r actually works for LF. < 1258297491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet the latter is as far as I can tell undocumented < 1258298045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes found it documented in release notes for a minor update < 1258298050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hidden < 1258298104 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258300044 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.120.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258300057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how edible < 1258300139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:52:17 This has some rendering issues in the input line window: http://zem.fi/~fis/ircle.png < 1258300139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE SYSTEM 6 FUCKER < 1258300141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258300465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for ehird's comments on the MPW rant just above < 1258300471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01:02 oh, I think it's a mix of spaces and tabs < 1258300472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01:07 that looks correct with tab=8, as it always should be < 1258300472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd argue, but you don't know anything about tabs or their history and i do and you still insist you're right, so i won't < 1258300472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:02:57 but tabs are dumb anyways < 1258300472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they're not < 1258300474 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258300475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: getting there! :P < 1258300491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:04:01 tab-space mixing is such a truly horrible idea < 1258300492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:04:22 if you use tabs properly, everything will still look right to someone with a different tab setting < 1258300492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ * infinity < 1258300493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the tabs vs. spaces will be uh a pointless flamewar to read < 1258300509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tabs vs spaces, yes, but you can define it as a set of tradeoffs < 1258300520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:05:13 coppro: any tab setting but 8 is wrong and broken < 1258300520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this, however, is just ais523 making shit up < 1258300525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could also define it as a "holy flamewar" < 1258300537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is that you can end spaces/tabs by listing the tradeoffs < 1258300552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't argue against "tabs=8 OR YOU DIE because I said so QED" < 1258300563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1258300565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the same argument you use against any such assertion, "uh... no" < 1258300591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:07:46 coppro: the tab width setting is going to matter whenever you use spaces < 1258300591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1258300598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use tab at the start of a line to indent < 1258300601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab to indent past that < 1258300603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spaces to align < 1258300605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, we said that already < 1258300607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very simple, very sane < 1258300607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't help < 1258300611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just reiterating it < 1258300615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he thinks everyone agrees with him < 1258300619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but ais doesn't logread < 1258300632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1258300637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does he? < 1258300639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to vent, because he's always an idiot about tabs=8 < 1258300663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:08:14 coppro: tabs are too wide to indent a line < 1258300663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, a circular argument! < 1258300678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, he managed at least one more iirc < 1258300684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're pretty rare in practice, but he's actually managed one. < 1258300714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they are rare? They seems quite common in flamewars in my experience < 1258300733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure, in flamewars, but not in things masquerading as actual arguments < 1258300739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only other people to regularly do it are the religious < 1258300754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't "things masquerading as actual arguments" *also* pretty common in flamewars? < 1258300763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when people try to pretend it isn't one < 1258300788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e :P < 1258300797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:08:57 ais523: then indent with spaces and spaces only < 1258300797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, don't copout of the argument — he's wrong and this just makes him think he's won < 1258300809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:09:22 coppro: tabs are too wide to indent a line <-- not at all < 1258300810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree even with tabs=8 that it's fine < 1258300814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't nest so much! < 1258300843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he ended up suggesting tab=3 was more common than tab=4 even iirc.. < 1258300846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:09:37 (any editor that allows you to set tab to anything but 8 is suspicious, any editor that /defaults/ to anything but 8 is simply broken) < 1258300846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suspicious? ahahaha. And I guess that makes BBEdit, a very well-regarded editor, broken since 1993. < 1258300852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: O_O < 1258300860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:09:45 tabs are not 8 by definiton < 1258300860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:09:49 yes they are < 1258300860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUNNING ARGUMENT < 1258300881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:10:05 ais523, why < 1258300881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come you're the one being logical and rational and he's just asserting shit? < 1258300887 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258300892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MIXED UP YOUR ALT ACCOUNTS, ANMASTER523! < 1258300896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, har har < 1258300901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/aisMaster < 1258300918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:15 coppro: you'll break all the applications that assume that tab=8 if you do that < 1258300918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:23 ais523, yes because those apps are broken < 1258300919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:11:25 e.g. --help output often uses 8-space tabs < 1258300919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they use tabs < 1258300924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look fine no matter what the spacing < 1258300936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would never argue for tab = 8 though. That wouldn't just be me. I used to use tab = 2, then later went tab = 4 < 1258300943 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem with using tabs to indent is that if you want 80-column lines, what you get depends on the tab width. < 1258300950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab=8 is fine in C, great in Go < 1258300952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've chosen to not give a shit.) < 1258300962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab=8 gets awkward if you nazi-like insist on 80 cols, ofc < 1258300975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ken thompson says not to worry about line length in go :P < 1258300986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ha i wrote my shit before yours < 1258300992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, nobody cares < 1258301000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :measure with =8 if you want, nobody sets it *above* that < 1258301014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I measure with =3 and give no shit since nobody cares anyway < 1258301019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think someone suggested tab=13 a bit later < 1258301029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as a joke) < 1258301029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wc can use tabs (chars\twords\tlines) and it'll look fine whatever the tab width < 1258301052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some put a \t before the chars, which is stupid, but doesn't matter < 1258301061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258301066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is even wrong traditionally < 1258301074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs go to the column that is the NEXT MULTIPLE of 8 traditionally < 1258301081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before non-tab chars, this is 8 spaces < 1258301093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (6 chars)a is (6 chars)(two spaces)a < 1258301110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, the thing about sun and java later was just to show how absurd he was acting when referring to indent(1) as some sort of authority < 1258301119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you misinterpret that < 1258301129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he probably has gnu indent, which uses gnu style by default < 1258301131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some fucking authority < 1258301143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, he was referring to both gnu and sun ones. < 1258301148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258301156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, sun; well-known purveyors of good unix < 1258301156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1258301179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:14:18 so if you use tabs alone for indentation, you end up in the stupid situation where you can't read the program in anything but an editor < 1258301180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do your eyes suddenly start to bleed when you see 8 spaces? < 1258301183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, sure you can read it fine < 1258301190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with any tab width < 1258301198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, he thinks indentation=alignment prolly < 1258301202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also there was this "setterm" command to make it work on a terminal < 1258301204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would probably be his counterargument < 1258301207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it had been mentioned then already < 1258301216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:14:45 also, because of wanting to restrict lines to 80 columns so they fit on the screen, having variable-sized tabs means that you have no idea where to split your lines < 1258301216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fit on the screen" < 1258301217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew it < 1258301222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 actually uses a vt100 < 1258301230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258301233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, his editor can't line-wrap < 1258301251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can set vim to add one more level of indentation post-wrapping iirc, which is nice) < 1258301261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks just like manual wrapping < 1258301329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15:06 also, because of wanting to restrict lines to 80 columns so they fit on the screen, having variable-sized tabs means that you have no idea where to split your lines <-- you don't. 100 columns is just fine. More than that isn't I agree < 1258301329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I would have put you down as an 80-columns type < 1258301331 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258301344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15:10 AnMaster: presumably that was added to cope with the broken editors < 1258301345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S A CONSPIRACY < 1258301352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every counterargument is just because everything is broken!!! < 1258301367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:15:24 AnMaster: I can fit about 83 characters horizontally on my screen, on a half-screen-width window < 1258301367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, this is why people don't buy £300 laptops < 1258301420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:17:32 oklofok: agreed; the reason to keep tabsize at a default of 8 is because that's what tabs have been for ever, and what a tab actually means <-- what a tab actually means says who? < 1258301420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[…] < 1258301420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:17:48 says more or less every program in existence, apart from a few editors < 1258301420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by this of course he is discounting all your other examples < 1258301425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're clearly because of broken editors! < 1258301430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fallacies are outstanding < 1258301437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, I would have put you down as an 80-columns type <-- why on earth. You edited cfunge yourself and commented upon that it went past 80 columns < 1258301443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short memory? ;P < 1258301446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we _please_ start teaching basic rational argument early on in schools? < 1258301455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world would be a much better place < 1258301460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wish < 1258301480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conservative christians would complain :D < 1258301512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only in US though. ais is in UK < 1258301520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1258301537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and US is so backwards anyway that it is a lost cause. < 1258301549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it "lost case"? < 1258301558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason to go to the US is to work at google or go to a university :P < 1258301560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all the lawyers there it probably is. < 1258301574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, or apple < 1258301577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not microsoft :P < 1258301581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about universities in Europe? < 1258301595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT is the single best university for CS, so... < 1258301602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1258301634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it's in Massachusetts, so you could pretend it's warm canada :P) < 1258301693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh I found an old python version for classic mac os < 1258301697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.2.1 < 1258301699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, MacPython < 1258301706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an IDE and stuff < 1258301715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems to be idle there < 1258301735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was python for windows that had its own ide way back < 1258301765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1258301769 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258301776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:18:35 and that relied on tab=8 < 1258301776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:18:41 AnMaster: it's used the \t forever < 1258301776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:18:45 since before I took it over < 1258301777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:18:56 further evidence that tab should equal 8... < 1258301777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, because you use it that way? < 1258301777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idle-lookalike (or idle) gives a traceback as the first thing < 1258301783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what kind of table-maker depends on tab=8?!) < 1258301786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just split on \t+) < 1258301799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can align just fine if the entry is >8 chars, and it still works < 1258301810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:19:27 oklofok: the point was, I wasn't sure how wide each of the columns would be < 1258301810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...................so? < 1258301835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does this python error look bad: "ValueError: Bad Marshal Data" < 1258301849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshal is an object deserialisation/serialisation model (unsafe so use pickle for user code) < 1258301850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, was lower case text < 1258301855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is used for .pyc objects etc < 1258301877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah but you aren't supposed to get a traceback about that when opening python right? < 1258301886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe one of the system files has an invalid pyc < 1258301887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pyo < 1258301892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe hm < 1258301899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove them all and try again < 1258301926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. have to find them first < 1258301938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:23:38 ais523, it's like saying GNU cat is some role model for all cat's < 1258301938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:23:41 cats* < 1258301938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here kitty kitty." < 1258301939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hewe kwitty kwitty" < 1258301939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"YOU CAN TALK?!" < 1258301953 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but he knew they were of size 6-7, so tabsize of 8 made most sense, because he didn't need to adjust them to make it look pretty < 1258301959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"V FUCK YOU!" < 1258301960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"emphasis FUCK YOU! end of line" < 1258301975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: so he picked the tab width based on the contents? I thought it was 8 no matter what! < 1258301978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258302005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:23:49 that's weird, actually, doesn't GNU coding style prefer tab width of 2? < 1258302005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, as spaces < 1258302006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (foo) < 1258302009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1258302009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1258302013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1258302016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 4 in practice, except for functions < 1258302018 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe more like 8 because 6-7 is such a common distribution < 1258302024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wraps < 1258302058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:25:12 AnMaster: err, I expect them to have followed industry practice at the time? < 1258302059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any idea how much sun's unices were hacked around? < 1258302062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, great. that value error happens randomly. about 3 times out of 7 or so of starting the IDE < 1258302066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing pyc files didn't help < 1258302074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sheepshaver :P < 1258302081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was on a real mac < 1258302082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1258302086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno then < 1258302092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what was the context of "industry practice" there? < 1258302102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:26:03 AnMaster: it doesn't even set it to an integer < 1258302102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because tradition doesn't < 1258302114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's traditionally be go-to-next-multiple-of-8 < 1258302118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all your argument-by-tradition is invalid < 1258302131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: their indent(1) < 1258302135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming tabs=8 < 1258302157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:28:23 given that this is a traditional flamewar, you can't go looking for a page that advocates one side of the flamewar, because there's bound to be one < 1258302157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, tabs vs spaces is traditional < 1258302165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs=8 is never said by people who have learned what tab actually is < 1258302179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1258302190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:28:48 2 and 3 tend to be more common, 4 is a Pythonism < 1258302190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pythonism?! No... < 1258302190 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it when ehird is on my side < 1258302195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pythonism is 4-spaces. < 1258302198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tabs are very much discouragedd. < 1258302201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*discouraged < 1258302206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people were indenting C by 4 since — < 1258302207 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know you don't have to fight when there's someone like him < 1258302210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, same. < 1258302210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the 3 more common than 4 line < 1258302212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1258302216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you upset me ais523 < 1258302218 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :energy, POWAH < 1258302220 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has < 1258302222 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fighting < 1258302223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, yeah indeed. It is nice for a change < 1258302230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i have some kind of compulsion to viciously argue against idiots :D < 1258302246 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1258302259 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're internet people < 1258302262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wonder why there is some "Build application" drag-python-file-to-me application thingy with this macpython < 1258302269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes a mac app < 1258302271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of python files < 1258302278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still exists today < 1258302281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, native compiler? < 1258302283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258302285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :includes python < 1258302289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your .pycs < 1258302290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258302298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or .pyos, which are just optimised .pycs < 1258302300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's good for e.g. games < 1258302312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is an identical one called "build applet" too < 1258302318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what the difference would be < 1258302319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1258302324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :identical icon < 1258302346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:34:53 * SimonRC gets out his soldering iron; and the documentation for several popular HTML renderers. < 1258302346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm here to solder things and read the documentation for several popular HTML renderers, and I'm allllll out of documentation. < 1258302418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, very strange line you quoted... < 1258302423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:34:56 SimonRC: DOS edit? Notepad? less without having to type out the -x option every time you view a file? < 1258302423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:35:16 more, fwiw, which doesn't have -x? < 1258302423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks fine at tab=8, anyway. < 1258302433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: HTML renderers generally render as tab=4 < 1258302447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I mean the soldering iron. What has it got to do with things < 1258302448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHICH IS BECAUSE THE WORLD IS DEAD AND BROKEN AND ITS ASHES SHITTED ON < 1258302452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Who knows! < 1258302485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHICH IS BECAUSE THE WORLD IS DEAD AND BROKEN AND ITS ASHES SHITTED ON <--- I must have left by then? Or my memory refused to remember that < 1258302501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:38:33 AnMaster: well, I'm confused, because I'm 22 < 1258302502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, you had a bbc thingy when you were young < 1258302537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either your parents didn't allocate much of their budget to buying you technology, your parents were poor, or they had this evil plan to bring you up as if it was years ago < 1258302551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the middle one meant i was using 3.11 in 1995 :-P) < 1258302560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258302561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 1995 < 1258302563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1995+3 < 1258302565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yet you have a mac now. That's not cheap. < 1258302566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1998 < 1258302576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, because economic situations never change :P < 1258302587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky you < 1258302595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh, it's not like they're rich or anything < 1258302616 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258302616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"UNIX tools can be trivially ported to run in the MPW environment. Some examples of those that have been ported are awk, bison, yacc, lex, diff, flex, sed, perl, python, tags, and gcc." < 1258302617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258302624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says apple's MPW "advantages" page < 1258302631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet gcc wasn't so trivial < 1258302653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait till you read about the MPW include files in the scrollback < 1258302671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hint: gcc/egcs < 1258302693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish egcs didn't merge, it may have become something other than the worst GNU horror ever < 1258302753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, python and perl would be quite impressive too < 1258302832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:40:17 AnMaster: say you want to print out a Word document, or whatever < 1258302832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd convert it to PostScript, and— oh, you're talking about shitty printers. < 1258302885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did the tab discussion really go on for that long? < 1258302901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to have occupied the majority of an entire day < 1258302920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/day/night/ unless I misremember? < 1258302929 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you were born in 1995 right? < 1258302932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure. < 1258302936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Yeppers. < 1258302951 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just surating < 1258302967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And yes, I did get a computer when I was 3... not sure why, but hey.) < 1258302967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:41:33 I'm happy to have grown up on mac < 1258302967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:41:37 things just worked there < 1258302967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:41:47 and there was no terminal < 1258302967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most un-AnMaster like thing ever said? You decide. < 1258302978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surated knife. < 1258302982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wasn't the "unimportant edge case" I said once less un-AnMasterish? < 1258302994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know, being happy there was no terminall? < 1258302996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*terminal < 1258303046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:48:32 AnMaster: You could be Illiad in disguise. < 1258303046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain the terrible sense of humour < 1258303055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userfriendly is marginally ffunnier than garfield < 1258303059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*funnier < 1258303063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say that. The scoping was wrong. As in "there was no terminal there" was not one of the reasons for being happy with it < 1258303070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it didn't matter either way < 1258303072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, but still :P < 1258303073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab food < 1258303229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION flips back through a few UserFriendlies, sees a baww-type story about cancer and Pitr *still* talking faux-russian < 1258303235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did that start, 2000?! < 1258303240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confirmed, still shit < 1258303262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It started pretty early < 1258303297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably only a dozen or so strips at the start where he doesn't < 1258303496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I stopped reading UF some time ago. < 1258303513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:01:45 indeed < 1258303513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:01:51 I wish I had written an answer like that :( < 1258303514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:02:12 oh wow, one of my answers hit 50 votes :) < 1258303514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with Stack Overflow is that it turns people into RPG-style karma whores instead of good helpers. < 1258303523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck that shit. Stack Overflow is a cesspool in practice which just proves it. < 1258303546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Experts Exchange usually had the right answer if it had any. < 1258303549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Fuck that shit. Stack Overflow is a cesspool in practice which just proves it. <-- ah. That explains a lot about ick. cesspool.c < 1258303557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it recur? < 1258303570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does? < 1258303605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cesspool.c :P < 1258303606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack overflow < 1258303608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:30:38 how about we stop using autoconf < 1258303609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:31:14 coppro: because if used correctly you can actually make it work < 1258303609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with a knife, for murder. < 1258303614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET'S KEEP MURDERING PEOPLE WITH KNIVES < 1258303627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Autotools is actually literally as bad as knife murder.) < 1258303630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((Those poor knives!)) < 1258303644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah. was a bad joke < 1258303675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION happened to have that file open in an editor and thus read ehird's line as containing the word "cesspool.c" first time around < 1258303702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/11/say-yes-i-need-job.html < 1258303828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, "MakeFile" < 1258303843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so f-thing is : < 1258303844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1258303849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icelandic d is \ < 1258303850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: MPW < 1258303862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, says Makefile here < 1258303873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258303884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it refuses to highlight MakeFile and makefile for me < 1258303888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW 3.1:Examples:CExamples:MakeFile < 1258303890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very un-macish < 1258303900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed you are right < 1258303906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that one does highlight < 1258303909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how very strange < 1258303918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably has a file type :P < 1258303930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, uh, Link(1) looks scary. < 1258303942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it's TEXT as file type < 1258303947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same all as the other ones < 1258303963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disappointed MPW uses file extensions :P < 1258303964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Link? it crashes sheepshaver for me. PPCLink works < 1258303982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link is 68k duh :P < 1258303987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know < 1258303990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe if(68k) < 1258303993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else ppc < 1258303997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the syntax, anyway < 1258304004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but then why does some 68k apps run under sheepshaver? < 1258304018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like ones I compiled on a real mac) < 1258304021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fat binaries (both 68k & ppc) and 68k emulation < 1258304032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like universal binaries and rosetta from ppc→intel < 1258304033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I made sure it wasn't a fat one < 1258304036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not stupid < 1258304039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the latter < 1258304048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258304059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except rosetta is a better ppc emulator than the 68k one was :P < 1258304062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway what do you think about that crazy header in MPW I mentioned? < 1258304066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the logs < 1258304067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 68k that is xD < 1258304070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: still reading < 1258304101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:36:50 and my university does, but I couldn't sensibly put it there, it's unrelated to my research < 1258304101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, tons of people have websites on university accounts < 1258304118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but they're evil! IT SAYS IN THIS POLICY— < 1258304122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not ais. Same as he would never pirate anything < 1258304157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Probably all laws are useless; for good men do not want laws at all, and bad men are made no better by them." — Demonax < 1258304165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what kind of man ais523 is, then < 1258304169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Crazy"? :P < 1258304174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe < 1258304182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, who is that "demonax"? < 1258304190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greek philosopher < 1258304193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258304198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the most awesome name ever < 1258304206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he kills people with his demon axe! < 1258304227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oooh I know the answer < 1258304232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"to tell the good from the bad" < 1258304241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without laws you can't point out who are the bad ones < 1258304248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1258304252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good men can point out who the bad men are :P < 1258304252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use "moral" for that < 1258304266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bad men could lie about it and frame god men? < 1258304277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you forgot the category "stupid men") < 1258304353 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258304381 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:57] ehird: (Utilitarianism FTW.) < 1258304382 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:58] ehird: Gah, I lost my net connection? < 1258304382 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:58] ehird: Hello? < 1258304382 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:58] ehird: It's connecting... < 1258304389 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already logread. < 1258304393 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, not totally. < 1258304396 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the bits I didn't hear < 1258304410 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:57:46 ehird, bad men could lie about it and frame god men? < 1258304411 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:57:57 (you forgot the category "stupid men") < 1258304411 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what baring this has on Demonax's statement < 1258304430 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More modernly rephrased, it's "Moral people are moral without laws, and immoral people ignore the laws". < 1258304451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, what about the MPW header then? < 1258304464 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that back in his time, there weren't people so afraid of authority that law was the only thing stopping them breaking it. < 1258304473 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such obedience is more of a modern thing, I think. < 1258304474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headers* < 1258304478 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Still reading the previous day :P < 1258304490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, oh multi-place log reading? < 1258304509 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for my disconnection < 1258304565 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:51:12 ais523, wb < 1258304566 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:51:23 ais523, wrong button? < 1258304566 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:51:32 no, I was leaving in exasperation < 1258304566 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it's passive-aggressiveness. < 1258304611 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this because punishments are smaller? < 1258304625 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: in reply to my modern-obedience? < 1258304626 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ehird_: I imagine that..." <<< < 1258304628 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258304660 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just culture. The conservatives advocate such crazy obedience to authority (well, when they're in power), but the liberals do too, really. < 1258304664 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that would make a lot of no sense < 1258304676 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258304691 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly libertarians aren't so obedient, but they're all so irritating that it doesn't help the cause. < 1258304759 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that many things are modern things < 1258304768 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:54:12 the name is an unfortunate one < 1258304768 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:54:19 it's about as accurate as "biscuit semantics" would be < 1258304768 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:54:23 we get that < 1258304769 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO I THINK HE HAS TO TELL US SOME MORE < 1258304772 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i mean modern quite loosely < 1258304789 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely such a submissive, afraid-of-authority society isn't an ancient thing < 1258304800 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's christianity that did it; "god-fearing" being positive < 1258304836 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL DUNNO < 1258304903 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my historian gf usually disagrees when i try to say ideas or patterns are inherently modern. < 1258304939 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe history gets simplified when it's written down?? < 1258304941 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think most people ignore law anyway, because it's extremely hard to actually find out what all the laws are < 1258304945 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you don't say. < 1258304959 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laws paws < 1258304974 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i blow your mind < 1258304977 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258304991 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.diovo.com/2009/11/the-general-pirate-license/ what an awful license < 1258305016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay I got something that you can actually run directly after compile now (without messing around manually with copying ick-wrap.c and syslib.i and such < 1258305034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, so what about the MPW HEADERS? < 1258305044 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STILL FUCKING LOGREADING BITCH :||||||||| < 1258305070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258305076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HURRY UP? < 1258305077 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL STOP FUCKING HER SO SHE CAN FINISH < 1258305092 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "fucking" joke never gets old < 1258305098 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:43:08 Hm. < 1258305098 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:43:24 Chrome's "Close tabs opened by this tab" only goes 1 level deep < 1258305099 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:44:23 well otherwise it would have to recurse. and that would require recursion. < 1258305099 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:45:22 i'm not sure i get that < 1258305099 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:45:28 something which would necessitate a recurrence step. < 1258305099 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:45:47 is this another fart joke? < 1258305101 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258305103 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xD < 1258305105 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid capslock < 1258305133 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:53:44 i'm going to grr you dead. < 1258305133 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1258305209 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18:52 I feel that all good fictional stories should end with every major character dying. < 1258305209 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18:55 That way there are no loose ends. < 1258305212 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was angry and probably a bit scary too < 1258305213 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the minor characters? < 1258305225 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mechanical happenings. < 1258305232 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERY WORK MUST END WITH THE DESTRUCTION OF THE MULTIVERSE < 1258305251 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT ABOUT THE PAST < 1258305261 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about your ass < 1258305265 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...That didn't even rhyme < 1258305267 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i say that < 1258305268 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touche < 1258305289 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:22:13 a sun compiler. Okay these guys were crazy. half of these handled cases aren't even relevant for a mac... < 1258305292 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll just have bought the header files < 1258305305 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:46:46 MPW shell sure has strange commands (and command names): "Dolt - highlight and execute a series of shell commands" < 1258305306 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the workspace thingy < 1258305310 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a smalltalk transcript < 1258305313 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text that you can run parts of < 1258305316 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by highlighting < 1258305322 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Worksheet < 1258305325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1258305326 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1258305339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258305376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually no. There is a comment at the end asking people to send in more compiler detection and defines to apple if one is missing < 1258305389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for ported compilers, then < 1258305390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember < 1258305392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metrowerks < 1258305395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just for non-MPW stuff < 1258305399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't the only compiler in time, nor the most common < 1258305404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Metrowerks was the most common, I believe) < 1258305410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some of them ran on pc. Like that C++ *targeting* mac. < 1258305420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPW cost too much < 1258305420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it says also "runs on windows nt" < 1258305426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mostly for enterprisey things < 1258305442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cross-compiling < 1258305446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macs were kinda shit in those days < 1258305446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have metroworks around here somewhere too. Seems easier to use interface but less advanced < 1258305455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nobody developed on them < 1258305459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NT was a sturdy workstation OS < 1258305472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the egcs for MPW thingy? < 1258305488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because gcc sucked < 1258305501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(think compiling gcc-needing libraries, etc) < 1258305575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was why there was a native version for MPW? < 1258305579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err.. okay... < 1258305586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258305594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain < 1258305606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec will find the header < 1258305626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know where your header files are? < 1258305631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not < 1258305641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "{CIncludes}" < 1258305641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258305660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at "ConditionalMacros.h" in that directory < 1258305727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open "{CIncludes}ConditionalMacros.h" tell me it doesn't exist < 1258305730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Post-1988 I presume :P < 1258305740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tells < 1258305756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1258305780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does About MPW... give you a fun animation? < 1258305785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does for me! < 1258305977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1258305980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in colour? < 1258305994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P < 1258306001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It assembles a floppy then spray-paints it white. < 1258306004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about things flying out of a toolbox, then some paint sprayed on < 1258306005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CD for you, I'd wager. < 1258306011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end result is a blue floppy < 1258306016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1258306019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Okay then. < 1258306023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :light blue floppy < 1258306169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Go's networking is like Plan9's dial(). < 1258306178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No "sockets", just a connector returning a file. < 1258306192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsurprising considering it's the same people. < 1258306195 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258306371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about listening for connections? < 1258306383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about connections. < 1258306386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you make. < 1258306394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I understood that. < 1258306401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Listener is a generic network listener for stream-oriented protocols. Accept waits for the next connection and Close closes the connection." < 1258306404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if I want to implement a server < 1258306407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Listener interface { < 1258306407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aha < 1258306407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Accept() (c Conn, err os.Error); < 1258306407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Close() os.Error; < 1258306407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Addr() Addr; // Listener's network address < 1258306408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258306424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1258306427 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258306435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conn, err := listener.Accept(); < 1258306448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then conn is a subtype of Conn, which is a file < 1258306454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably TCPConn) < 1258306471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so more like normal networking then < 1258306482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, a listener is, of course, a sane concept. < 1258306505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But having connections just be files with some useful extra stuff — BSD sockets rapes that. < 1258306524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't sound too different from binding to a socket? Just it happens to be listen() bind() and accept() instead of a object representing it < 1258306525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Berkeley sockets are so fugly to use, actually. I'd expect better from the BSD guys. < 1258306532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's listeners. < 1258306542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's what I'm talking about < 1258306542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The important thing is what you get from a listener, and how you connect yourself. < 1258306548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is nothing wrong with listeneers. < 1258306550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*listeners < 1258306553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258306554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is something wrong with sockets. < 1258306567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially connecting) < 1258306587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have to do a bloody *ugly cast of a reference* just to connect with a BSD socket...) < 1258306593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, by reference I mean pointer-by-&foo < 1258306601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pass the sizeof < 1258306654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah ick is trying to open :share:/ick-wrap.c < 1258306657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hilarious < 1258306660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heeh < 1258306661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*heh < 1258306670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes looking at the source for where to change that < 1258306674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, you create a Listener by e.g.: < 1258306723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var foo Listener = net.ListenTCP("tcp", net.ResolveTCPAddr("0.0.0.0:6667") < 1258306729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a TCPListener < 1258306735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258306736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/)/ < 1258306741 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258306743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could construct a TCPAddr yourself, though < 1258306772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{IP: net.ParseIP("0.0.0.0"), Port: 6667} < 1258306772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1258306785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{IP: net.IPv4(0, 0, 0, 0), Port: 6667} < 1258306796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even just passing < 1258306800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\0\0\0\0" < 1258306804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1258306811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and D&D < 1258306819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same as {0,0,0,0} here; byte=uint8) < 1258306826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and type IP []byte) < 1258306838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is Go statically typed? < 1258306841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258306851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more strongly than C < 1258306854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it has pointers < 1258306856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh interesting < 1258306858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no pointer arithmetic, though) < 1258306860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, more than ADA? < 1258306862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1258306866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't break the type-system < 1258306870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, I love pointer arithmetics < 1258306872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: I feel that all good fictional stories should start with everyone dying. < 1258306873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without using a module basically the same as Haskell's Unsafe.Shit.Crap < 1258306882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand some do < 1258306883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258306886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, it isn't OOP, btw < 1258306894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read it hours ago < 1258306901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, same < 1258306917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which theme was it now again? < 1258306925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has structs, interfaces (basically a type full of function signatures, and anything with a method of a compatible type is typed as that interface; it's strongly-typed duck typing) and methods < 1258306927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methods are just < 1258306928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of < 1258306934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func Foo(...) < 1258306936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1258306944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: something hobbitual < 1258306947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func (thing SomeStructOrInterface) Foo(...) < 1258306948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1258306950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func (thing *SomeStructOrInterface) Foo(...) < 1258306953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can do thing.Foo() < 1258306961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you have e.g. < 1258306977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Foo struct {*Bar; ExtraField int;} < 1258306985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not a hobbit joke surely? < 1258306986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can do someFoo.MethodOnBar() < 1258306993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, struct entries without names are "included" < 1258307004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not a hobbit pun, no < 1258307010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we just have structs, interfaces, some syntactic sugar and unnamed-structs-are-inlined < 1258307015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we have a system *better* than OOP < 1258307023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : func (thing SomeStructOrInterface) Foo(...) <-- so what is parameter list, and what is return type? < 1258307029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't figure out how to read it < 1258307036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func main() < 1258307038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1258307043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a no-argument function main < 1258307045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that returns nothing < 1258307047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like void) < 1258307049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo() int < 1258307054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a no-argument function foo that returns an int < 1258307057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(a int) int < 1258307058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that sounds like pascal < 1258307059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is int→int < 1258307062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it had return type last too < 1258307071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func (thing *Foo) blah(a int) int < 1258307072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1258307077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah more languages than pascal do < 1258307079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aFoo.blah(anInt) → int < 1258307095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "thing"? < 1258307101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing is then aFoo. < 1258307103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in blah() < 1258307106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a key word? < 1258307107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1258307108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1258307112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a var name < 1258307116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you read < 1258307116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258307120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo bar(baz) quux < 1258307121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as < 1258307129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function bar on foo, taking baz and returning quux < 1258307129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1258307132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo bar(baz) quux < 1258307133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1258307135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.bar(baz) → quux < 1258307137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258307141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1258307145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also have multiple return vars < 1258307151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for instance < 1258307152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func (c *TCPConn) Read(b []byte) (n int, err os.Error) < 1258307160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit hard to read, but that is just due to not being used to it < 1258307166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means that you do aTCPConn.Read(aByteArray) < 1258307354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307354 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307357 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307357 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307360 0 :Guest19337!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307368 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307368 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307371 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307371 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307380 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307383 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307386 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307386 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307386 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307388 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307391 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307391 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307393 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307396 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307399 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307399 0 :Rembane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307400 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307400 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307402 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307404 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307404 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258307407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1258308000 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308000 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :Warrigal!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :mtve!n=nnnnmtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :Rembane!i=rembane@frikod.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :Guest19337!i=jerry@81-89-105-25.blue.kundencontroller.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :mycroftiv!n=drabgah@h69-128-47-245.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-64-146.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-118-139.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :Gregor!n=gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :fax!n=v@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308037 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fileiter=ICK_PATHUPTREE "include"; < 1258308187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it is using partly < 1258308187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the guessdir parameter < 1258308187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right, well, having an exact path is of course better than that hack < 1258308187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of hardcoding ..) < 1258308188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, problem is it adds / somewhere < 1258308188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it is in that function < 1258308191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be the cause of :share:/syslib.i < 1258308192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258308192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258308192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 while(*guessdir != '\0' && i" < 1258308678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 "" < 1258308680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 "/dev/stdin" < 1258308682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1258308686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the headers define it, but i doubt it < 1258308689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be a ____ thiing < 1258308690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258308707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes http://www.paulgraham.com/accgen.html but with a fixed-size int instead of number first, to be precise < 1258308707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my "detect if this is mac" won't break that then < 1258308713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure we have bigfloats :P < 1258308722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll make it use an interface the second time I guess < 1258308760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because the only common thing that all mac compilers I used (MrC, SC, CodeWarrior) defines is "macintosh" < 1258308767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PPC ones define powerc and __powerc < 1258308868 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258308882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) func (int) int { < 1258308883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return func(i int) int { return n += i } < 1258308883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258308884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258308885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that < 1258308898 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int is an interface? < 1258308901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) func (int) int { < 1258308901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return func(i int) int { return n += i } < 1258308901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258308903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: no < 1258308909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing a fixed-size regular int first, just there < 1258308910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme test it < 1258308917 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right < 1258308952 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you said that already < 1258308963 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to read lines all the way to the end < 1258308982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw why did ais use indention=2 in that file if he liked indent=4 tab=8... < 1258308997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. < 1258309011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, he chose to format the dna maze code with the intention of annoying the most amount of people < 1258309039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has almost no spaces, mixed spaces and tabs, 2 (iirc) indent, {s on the starting line, and }s on the same line as the last statement < 1258309046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it made me want to fucking rip his head off when trying to make it compile < 1258309048 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program < 1258309053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258309065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ 6g intacc.go < 1258309065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intacc.go:5: syntax error near int < 1258309065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intacc.go:6: syntax error near int < 1258309065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intacc.go:10: syntax error near bar < 1258309066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so good. < 1258309072 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program < 1258309076 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103| i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program < 1258309094 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stalker1 < 1258309095 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*! < 1258309099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the "detect absolute argv" thing won't work on mac < 1258309100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1258309103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, += is a statement < 1258309109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Volume:dir:file < 1258309113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is absolute < 1258309113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1258309114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so there are no ++ ordering issues) < 1258309117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::dir:file < 1258309118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is relative < 1258309119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is < 1258309122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file < 1258309122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, of course, you have to return a function pointer < 1258309126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) *func (int) int { < 1258309128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more readably < 1258309130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1258309133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) *(func (int) int) { < 1258309135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right < 1258309158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, non-trivial to check in C. Well trivial but a bit of work < 1258309184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intacc.go:6: cannot use (node O-33) (type func(i int) (int)) as type *func(int) (int) < 1258309198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me a second to realise I needed & before the func in return func(i int) int { n += i; return n } there < 1258309202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatic pointerification would be scary < 1258309282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you can't do &func ... < 1258309283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1258309321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and apps seems to get relative paths only *checks for mpw tools* < 1258309328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1258309336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can return functions directly < 1258309382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./6.out < 1258309382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar(0) = 3 < 1258309382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar(3) = 6 < 1258309382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar(2) = 8 < 1258309383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1258309386 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258309388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) (func (int) int) { < 1258309389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return func(i int) int { n += i; return n }; < 1258309389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258309396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, that last ; isn't required < 1258309430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) (func (int) int) { < 1258309430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return func(i int) int { < 1258309430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : n += i; < 1258309431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return n; < 1258309431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1258309431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1258309433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks gofmt < 1258309474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258309475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo(n int) (func(int) int) { < 1258309476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is better < 1258309523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oklofok: http://sprunge.us/JXMf < 1258309529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to make a generic-number version < 1258309569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice how you can return a function that isn't a pointer < 1258309612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by number paul graham means non-ints and bignum i guess < 1258309633 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-86-101.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1258309634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big This package implements multi-precision arithmetic (big numbers). < 1258309634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bignum A package for arbitrary precision arithmethic. < 1258309635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1258309640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bignum is bigger < 1258309643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does non-ints < 1258309650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This package has been designed for ease of use but the functions it provides are likely to be quite slow. It may be deprecated eventually. Use package big instead, if possible. < 1258309651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1258309855 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think by number he means something you can increment and test against zero < 1258309873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why is ais checking of argv[0] contains at least one / < 1258309874 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the natural definition! < 1258309878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the point < 1258309883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be absolute or relative < 1258309886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't know < 1258309894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on *nix < 1258309924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is he reasoning like "oh, if it doesn't contain any path it probably isn't in current directory, but if it does it is probably relative current directory"? < 1258309927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1258309944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258310022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you don't need to test against zero < 1258310023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just increment :P < 1258310050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ 6g acc.go < 1258310051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bus error < 1258310051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boggles* < 1258310073 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but i don't think a number that can't be compared to others is a very useful number < 1258310095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, can't whittle it down < 1258310101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gdb? < 1258310106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does gdb not support go yet < 1258310113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gc is written in c < 1258310116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it have it's own debugger? < 1258310120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(6g = gc for 64-bit) < 1258310121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't use libc < 1258310124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh hah was that the compiler crashing? < 1258310127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1258310132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 6g makes me thing of i686 < 1258310133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it uses lib9, plan9port's ported plan9 libc) < 1258310137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than x86_64 < 1258310156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: x*[8]6, amd[6]4, arm[INEXPLICABLE 5] < 1258310159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258310161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: x[8]6, amd[6]4, arm[INEXPLICABLE 5] < 1258310167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1258310184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is a 6 in x86 too < 1258310190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it isn't the first digit < 1258310191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't 8 and 4 have been safer? < 1258310199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically 8* is for 386 in plan9 < 1258310200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no collision risk then < 1258310210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it calls it 386 < 1258310210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not x86 < 1258310213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would that be 3? < 1258310213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258310213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 3 was prolly taken < 1258310215 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258310218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258310221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 6 is easily-memorable as 64-bit < 1258310231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is, eh, x86 nowadays, so pretty memorable < 1258310238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm sure if you did arm work 5 would become memorable too < 1258310257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not a big deal < 1258310270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why use numbers? why not something like g -86 g -64 or such? (Not that those two are logical, but they are shorer than logical ones) < 1258310286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: separate binaries has a very good reason < 1258310293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice upside is that if you just compile and install 5* on e.g. amd64 < 1258310300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it seems so illogical you would keep thinking about "why", thus you would remember it < 1258310301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use them to cross-compile < 1258310304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1258310309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each is portable < 1258310313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cross-compiling becomes no big deal < 1258310333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um how does having a binary able to compile to all not do that < 1258310336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can mix-and-match, and each program does one thing ("compile go source to ARM object" "link ARM objects in the plan 9 linker format") < 1258310341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have gcc -m32 and gcc -m64 after all < 1258310344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one binary < 1258310348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's wasteful to include every architecture+os in every compiler < 1258310355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole point is that you don't have to tell the build system < 1258310357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey cross compile it < 1258310364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, could do it as a wrapper that calls the right internal binary I guess < 1258310364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just tell it you're e.g. ARM < 1258310366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1258310367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does 5g < 1258310368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and voila < 1258310375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no real point < 1258310378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1258310380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the internal binaries are usable as-is < 1258310403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only downside is that there's no way to quickly do "whatevertherightoneis file" in a build system or whatever < 1258310405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's basically void < 1258310408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because go has makefiles < 1258310421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw you mentioned in that ick_findandfopen there were lots of duplicate code? < 1258310422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258310426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TARG=progname < 1258310426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOFILES=foo.go bar.go < 1258310427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258310427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.$(GOARCH) < 1258310427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.cmd < 1258310427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're done < 1258310431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cmd/pkg and you generate a library < 1258310433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick_findandtestopen is basically a copy of it < 1258310434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make install/clean works with both < 1258310434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changed a bit < 1258310438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very convenient < 1258310438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible < 1258310448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: XD < 1258310470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the makefile snippet lets you install to different dirs too < 1258310470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least ick_findandfreopen() just calls ick_findandtestopen() plus does some extra stuff < 1258310474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make install GOBIN=... < 1258310479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cross-compiling is easy: < 1258310481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see why the first one couldn't do that too < 1258310483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make GOARCH=amd < 1258310484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258310485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ make GOARCH=arm < 1258310508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will that work under MPW? < 1258310517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh. i think it requires gmake :P < 1258310524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, libraries (packages) are put in $GOROOT/pkg/$GOOS_$GOARCH < 1258310527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, damn < 1258310533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have a cross-compilation environment without different trees < 1258310536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all very well thought-out < 1258310559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, it does static libraries! package foo is just $GOROOT/pkg/$GOOS_$GOARCH/foo.a) < 1258310573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, {GOROOT}pkg:{GOOS}_{GOARCH} you mean (missing : in front of pkg intentional, GOROOT is assumed to end with : < 1258310574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you don't need to explicitly link it, just import it in the source file and it leaves a note for the linker) < 1258310575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(always) < 1258310578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hyuk hyuk < 1258310587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1258310600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one ugly thing about $GOROOT/pkg < 1258310601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls $GOROOT/pkg < 1258310601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darwin_amd64 ~place-holder~ < 1258310604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg is shit and doesn't track empty dirs :P < 1258310610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1258310625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, reminds me of cvs < 1258310633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, darcs does it too iirc < 1258310651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you actually do < 1258310652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ hg clone -r release https://go.googlecode.com/hg/ $GOROOT < 1258310656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to install go < 1258310657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258310660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do a make too < 1258310671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, you actually get it from hg straight into the tree :P < 1258310696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eh, darcs does it too iirc <-- does what? not tracking empty dirs? < 1258310697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh uh < 1258310699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does take up a few environment variables, but it's a small price to pay to have a convenient, well-organised, easily-managable development tree that can cross-compile and works everywhere < 1258310703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, and it's "uh huh" < 1258310704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would break my build script < 1258310714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no "uh uh" as in "oops" < 1258310715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh uh sounds like that's the way, uh uh uh uh, I like it, uh uh uh uh < 1258310724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah :P < 1258310738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complexity_of_Songs < 1258310740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth! < 1258310742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think classic mac os had that as one of the "beeps" you could select < 1258310763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S_0 = e, S_k = V_k S_(k-1), k >= 1, < 1258310771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V_k = 'That's the way,' U 'I like it,' U, for all k > 0 < 1258310775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U = 'uh huh, uh huh' < 1258310844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that wikipedia link... what is that "(priority disputed)" there < 1258310850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some wikipedia thing about the reference? < 1258310861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surer. < 1258310865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a Wikipedia thing, I think. < 1258310867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sure < 1258310874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're usually ^{[...]} < 1258310899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not surer. <- surer than? < 1258310904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258310915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surise < 1258310928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be exact, here's how you install go: < 1258310951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ready steady go! < 1258310986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ export GOROOT=~/go < 1258310986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ export GOBIN=~/bin < 1258310986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ export GOARCH=386 < 1258310987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ export GOOS=linux < 1258310987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ export GOMAXPROCS=2 < 1258310987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ hg clone -r release https://go.googlecode.com/hg/ $GOROOT < 1258310988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cd $GOROOT/src < 1258310990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./all.bash < 1258311006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, AnMaster, I know you'd use GOROOT=~/local/go, GOBIN=~/local/bin and GOARCH=amd64 :P) < 1258311028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GOMAXPROCS is how many cpus/cores you have unless you want to limit go further than that, no real reason to though) < 1258311040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it defaults to 1, so concurrent programs won't be very good unless you set it) < 1258311058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GOBIN also defaults to ~/bin but really, it's simpler just to set them all, especially as you can view them with env | grep ^GO) < 1258311062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how large is the go installation? < 1258311089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ du -sh go < 1258311089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :242M go < 1258311089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's amd64/darwin < 1258311102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no extra packages or whatever installed < 1258311105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, larger than MPW. < 1258311108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rather huge < 1258311113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would have expected 100 MB at most < 1258311114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that includes all the tools (apart from the debugger-in-construction) < 1258311116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the documentation < 1258311119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the stdlib (as .as) < 1258311139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google's codereview scripts < 1258311147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lib9, libio and libmach < 1258311149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, static analyser? < 1258311151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as .as) < 1258311157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what those codereview scripts are? < 1258311165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ffi with some premade bindings < 1258311169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs, vim and xcode support files < 1258311181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, a ton of tests < 1258311189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the test binaries are removed at the end though, Ithink < 1258311192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I think < 1258311198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's not that big < 1258311199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still, bulky to say the least < 1258311204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1258311207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's batteries-included < 1258311211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a lot of useful stuff < 1258311228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including an indent(1) equivalent but with defaults that everyone uses, < 1258311242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a documentation generator that uses the web server in the stdlib and runs http://golang.org/ < 1258311257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a linker, a plan9 c compiler, a go compiler < 1258311264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a plan9 assembler < 1258311268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ffi tool < 1258311272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a yacc port < 1258311273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1258311285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codereview is for their code review site, where people review changes before merging them into the main line < 1258311295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh, and the test runner tool) < 1258311360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258311362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258311373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, static code analysis would have been cooler < 1258311376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you sort du -h output? < 1258311384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah :P < 1258311407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, any amd64 machine will have a disk you can throw 220 MiB at and not notice anything < 1258311423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could do du | sort -n then some magic to get the file names and then pass those as arguments in the right order to du? < 1258311437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my linux distro, with 32-bit and the tiny libc, will probably be more like slightly below 100 MiB < 1258311439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could write a script to sort on K, M, G and such < 1258311501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, couldn't you fit a stripped down go into that? < 1258311517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my /usr/include on ubuntu is 103 MB < 1258311520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1258311520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, what does du display in < 1258311522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytes right? < 1258311532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 512-bit blocks < 1258311532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258311536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, du -b is bytes < 1258311538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exact < 1258311538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stripping down is pointless, there's no real support for anything but the full thing < 1258311539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, < 1258311545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's fine, tbh < 1258311546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without -b it rounds to whole disk blocks < 1258311547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeps it simple < 1258311554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :providing the build system as two makefiles is great too < 1258311562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a 1 byte file is still one 512 bit block < 1258311565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258311567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that all the questions of what build system to use, where to install libraries to etc. is solved < 1258311568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :512-byte < 1258311570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bit < 1258311573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think < 1258311583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see man page. I'm not 100% sure. I know it is messy < 1258311584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as well as the fact that it does static libraries for you) < 1258311592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go is like, a vehicle for all the plan 9 type things < 1258311598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to sneak them in to everyone's mindset :P < 1258311608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: stripping down is pointless, there's no real support for anything but the full thing <-- embedded targets? < 1258311616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, develop in one place and run in another < 1258311618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the resulting binaries are quite small < 1258311624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static linking, remember < 1258311627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258311627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only links in the stuff it uses < 1258311636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1258311645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact all make install does with programs is copy the one binary to $GOBIN :P < 1258311653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc you could add to that if you need data files) < 1258311689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so `make GOARCH=arm GOBIN=~/androidthing/bin install` should work fine and produce a quite small binary < 1258311692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I keep reading it as "goo" mentally < 1258311692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258311696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good start < 1258311697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so `make GOARCH=arm GOOS=linux GOBIN=~/androidthing/bin install` should work fine and produce a quite small binary < 1258311700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258311702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're on os x :P < 1258311705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258311706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOS is clearly plural of foo < 1258311707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goo* < 1258311709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or GOOS=darwin < 1258311711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258311712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they get the iphone stuff working < 1258311714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gooy! < 1258311720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GOOS is an unfortunate name, yes :P < 1258311729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no du -b here on bsd :P < 1258311731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they never thought of GO_OS? < 1258311738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -b is GNU iirc < 1258311738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why be inconsistent with the other names < 1258311742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who cares if it's GOOS < 1258311745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah you are stuck with 512-byte blocks < 1258311751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :au connotraire < 1258311752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they could all use _ < 1258311759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -m Display block counts in 1048576-byte (1-Mbyte) blocks. < 1258311761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly what I wanted < 1258311764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? < 1258311767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would work too < 1258311769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not standard < 1258311772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a problem that GOOS looks like the plural of goo? < 1258311773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258311775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure < 1258311782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it has a real effecct < 1258311784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*effect < 1258311790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for setting them to cross-compile etc :P < 1258311815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how much of go is written in go? < 1258311817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"du -k" for kilobytes seems quite widespread. < 1258311826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the whole stdlib < 1258311828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the compiler < 1258311832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and standard too < 1258311834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike -m < 1258311837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not the whole of the stdlib, I guess, some is probably in C < 1258311844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of the main stdlib, at least < 1258311872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk '{print shift"M", $0}' puts "M " before the shifted thing o_O < 1258311884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'{print shift,"M", $0}' too < 1258311904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you call external code? Lets say you want to call function in a *.so (because you need to integrate with that app) < 1258311905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1258311909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cgo < 1258311914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the c ffi < 1258311923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can it load dynamically linked libraries? < 1258311929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses gcc. < 1258311931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cgo < 1258311941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's support for that for packages only (commands should make a wrapper lib) in the make system < 1258311943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't the same though < 1258311948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just define CGOFILES=fileusingcgo.go < 1258311955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes it is, you can pass arguments to the cgo compiler < 1258311956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's support for that for packages only (commands should make a wrapper lib) in the make system <-- ? < 1258311959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's CGO_CFLAGS or something < 1258311968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: making it run cgo for you < 1258311975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it compiles to C code? < 1258311986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what are you saying < 1258312005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles to two files of go code (your source code using cgo morphed slightly and an internal file) and two files of C code (one for gcc, one for the plan9 c compiler) < 1258312019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1258312023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pass arguments to the c compiler(s, not sure, prolly just gcc) < 1258312027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it generates C glue? < 1258312030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the 9 c compiler is without much options < 1258312031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1258312043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the go files it's very simple < 1258312045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ #include < 1258312047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258312049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// #include < 1258312051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// #include "bar" < 1258312053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import "C" < 1258312056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can do C.func(...) < 1258312061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1258312070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I imagine the 9 c compiler would have at least "optimise" "debug info" and "output to file instead of default"? < 1258312078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has problems with opaque structs atm (as in, you can't use them) so wrapping xlib requires some ugliness (casting pointers to longs) < 1258312086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those will be fixed, presumably < 1258312088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and probably "add this to the include path" < 1258312112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/1/2c < 1258312139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my 9c from plan9 from userspace calls gcc!? < 1258312143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258312145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shell script that calls gcc < 1258312145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1258312146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a wrapper < 1258312149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1258312156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so other programs can use it < 1258312159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for a compatible interface < 1258312170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, most of the options are useless on cgo's go ffile < 1258312191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you'd need is linking libraries (I think cgo handles that) < 1258312196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include files are done by gcc, I believe < 1258312198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1258312202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it links with gcc for that part < 1258312217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all the options are useless on the plan9 c code, I'd say < 1258312224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and optimisation is default. < 1258312237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: incidentally, see vc in http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/1/2c? < 1258312247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9 has cpu emulators, 8i emulates an x86 for instance < 1258312251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the mips emulator is... < 1258312251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi < 1258312256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what license is Go user? < 1258312257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under* < 1258312269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD < 1258312279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258312279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/1/2c? <-- hm that ? made it error out. < 1258312280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsd-style < 1258312287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually a ? at the end makes no difference < 1258312292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, it's BSD < 1258312296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the don't-use-Google's-name-to-endorse < 1258312298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 3BSD < 1258312305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty boring stuff < 1258312315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just MIT + don't-use-our-name-to-endorse-your-product < 1258312325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the latter is handled by most countries laws anyway i'd wager < 1258312328 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258312351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the plan9 man page for emacs has see also vi(1) < 1258312360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which points to the page about the cpu emulators :D < 1258312370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bug < 1258312378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the man page? < 1258312381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's a joke < 1258312381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does plan9 have vim? < 1258312382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/1/emacs < 1258312384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1258312391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite man page ever, btw < 1258312397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BUGS < 1258312397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes. < 1258312404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no one ported emacs to plan9? < 1258312413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there probably is a port, but using it would be a mortal sin. < 1258312424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's also a gcc support. using that is also a mortal sin.) < 1258312426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUGS < 1258312426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes. < 1258312427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gcc port < 1258312429 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258312431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, I copied that too :P < 1258312440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good. I'm already deep in it. what with this port of ick to mac os < 1258312443 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was busy reading the page :P < 1258312448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe you could port ick to plan9? :D < 1258312448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there is no 8i < 1258312449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1258312454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that has been done already < 1258312455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mips, arm, sparc, powerpc < 1258312461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess emulating x86 is too crazy for them < 1258312464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, maybe < 1258312476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9 c is quite a different beast to regular c, though < 1258312479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe as in "been done" or "maybe I should do it"? < 1258312482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they diverged before ISO C, I think < 1258312492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ouch so it isn't C89 even? < 1258312497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would hurt < 1258312499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's quite similar to C89 < 1258312508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what are the differences then? < 1258312512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it's probably post-C89 < 1258312517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1258312525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should just be a new build system I expect < 1258312525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: e.g. you can have a union in a struct without giving its field a name and it's addressable as theStruct->unionElement < 1258312529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with a struct I believe < 1258312541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do "subtyping" like struct foo { struct bar; ... } < 1258312544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gcc has that as an extension iirc < 1258312548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is used as the subtyping mechanism in go to great effect) < 1258312548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something very similar < 1258312551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the union thing < 1258312554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and I think all structs are typedeffed, so to speak < 1258312560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. struct foo {} makes the type foo < 1258312564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++ does this :P < 1258312570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean automatic typedef? < 1258312571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1258312575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would break things < 1258312576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works fine in plan 9 < 1258312586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't you use a -strict-ansi or something? < 1258312591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter, almost all posix-style c programs break on plan 9 < 1258312594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no. port it or use gcc < 1258312594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even this MPW compiler has that < 1258312610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need APE (posix compatibility layer) for most programs anyway < 1258312614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because plan 9 libc is not posix < 1258312623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't say POSIX < 1258312624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in just about every way < 1258312631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I said ANSI C < 1258312636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ick is happy with ANSI C < 1258312638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly < 1258312647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the parts where it isn't are either optional or bugs < 1258312647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but what kind of c program exercises details of the ansi c standard without stepping outside a subset of standard libc?! < 1258312660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. Ick tries to < 1258312660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258312675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, plan 9 c is a marked improvement over regular c < 1258312675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or to have fallbacks) < 1258312716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, plan 9 c also eliminates the regular preprocessor < 1258312722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only does #define, #include, #undef, #ifdef, #line and #ifndef < 1258312727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do -p to get an ansi preprocessor < 1258312736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has #pragma but that's in the compiler) < 1258312738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did you know more kids will be shown to have left-handedness this year than AiDS, diabetes, and cancer, combined?" < 1258312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A structure value can be formed with an expression such as < 1258312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(struct S){v1, v2, v3} < 1258312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : where the list elements are values for the fields of struct S. < 1258312747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258312748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Some features of C99, the 1999 ANSI C standard, are imple- < 1258312750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mented. ]] < 1258312750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 that one < 1258312768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - Structure initializers can specify the structure element < 1258312768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : by using the name following a period, as < 1258312768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct { int x; int y; } s = { .y 1, .x 5 }; < 1258312769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which initializes elements y and then x of the structure < 1258312769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s. These forms also accept the new ANSI C notation, which < 1258312769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : includes an equal sign: < 1258312770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's a full implementation of C99 to date anyway. < 1258312770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int a[] = { [3] = 1, [10] = 5 }; < 1258312773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct { int x; int y; } s = { .y = 1, .x = 5 }; < 1258312774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so far it seems MPW implements exactly one extension: long long < 1258312785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is also in C99 I mean < 1258312788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there are mac specific ones < 1258312795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure,* < 1258312816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct { int x; int y; } s = { .y 1, .x 5 }; <-- C99 too < 1258312843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting fact: the plan 9 c compiler (fun fact: valid as both (the (plan 9 c) compiler) and (the plan 9 (compiler)) has no -l < 1258312845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh? < 1258312856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GCC is one of the closest, but it has missing features. < 1258312857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -l? < 1258312858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not Comeau? < 1258312873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-l as in lowercase L < 1258312875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just do `8c foo.c /lib/libfoo.a` < 1258312876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/lib and /bin are actually a union) < 1258312882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like MrC on mac then. no -l there either < 1258312891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was Comeau just the one that did exported templates < 1258312892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of, I think, /(arch)/lib and $home/(arch)/lib) < 1258312899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like /386/lib < 1258312903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice < 1258312903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan 9 doesn't just support cross-compilation < 1258312904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cross-systeem! < 1258312906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*system! < 1258312914 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not complete to my knowledge, but I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of all C compilers ;) < 1258312920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably make a polyarchitecture plan 9 system < 1258312922 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesse what wikipedia says ... < 1258312926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's mainly for the cluster stuff < 1258312931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use the same fs < 1258312935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on different-arch machines < 1258312961 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to Sun Microsystems, Sun Studio (which is downloadable without charge) now supports the full C99 standard." < 1258312995 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's true at all, then that's the only one (according to Wikipedia) < 1258313003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right, that was the one < 1258313168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm looking through the biggest files/dirs in go out of curiosity < 1258313193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, find . -exec du {} + | sort -n ? < 1258313199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all but 59 MiB is in $GOROOT/src < 1258313200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258313203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ du -m go | sort -nr | awk '{print $1"M\t"$2}' | e < 1258313206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*$ du -m go | sort -nr | awk '{print $1"M\t"$2}' | e < 1258313211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trailing space :P) < 1258313220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find . -type f -exec du {} + | sort -n < 1258313223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1258313224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think $GOROOT/src includes object files too, though < 1258313227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type f? < 1258313230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well -rn might be better < 1258313234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "files and not dirs" < 1258313238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said files and dirs < 1258313241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biggest files and dirs < 1258313248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that wouldn't be dir size < 1258313248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without that i wouldn't have been able to tell you that $GOROOT/src has most stuff < 1258313252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need du -s then < 1258313262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? Why? < 1258313266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because du just will give you how many blocks the directory structure takes... < 1258313268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :184M go/src < 1258313268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :163M go/src/pkg < 1258313269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26M go/src/pkg/exp < 1258313272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I very much doubt that. < 1258313294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, `du -m -I.hg go | sort -nr | awk '{print $1"M\t"$2}' | e` actually < 1258313299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait, it just seems to print recrusively < 1258313304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have mixed it up < 1258313315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20M go/pkg/darwin_amd64 < 1258313323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the stdlib static libraries are 20 MiBb < 1258313324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good < 1258313327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MiB < 1258313329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -I+ < 1258313332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/ < 1258313338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore matching < 1258313349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh, bsd extension < 1258313372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, $GOROOT/src includes object files, the test object file, and the resulting binary < 1258313400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C1x will probably be out before GCC gets their full C99 compliance done. (Incidentally, recent C1x standardization committee meeting removed gets from the draft. They could always still add it back, though, but most likely it's gone now.) < 1258313415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring all them produces: < 1258313416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :67M go < 1258313422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31M go/src < 1258313422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20M go/pkg/darwin_amd64 < 1258313423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MiBb; a mebi-bit-byte. < 1258313442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4M go/src/pkg/exp < 1258313442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biggest "end" src directory. < 1258313456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait < 1258313458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not an end < 1258313461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exp/ogle is though < 1258313469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1258313471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has .6s < 1258313483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the binary is called ogle, making it hard to ignore < 1258313512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63M go without .6s < 1258313520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1258313526 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.112.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1258313536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically all of the bulk is the leftover .6s and binaries < 1258313555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if there's a reason to keep them < 1258313561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, yeah: making updates quicker) < 1258313568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only rebuilding the packages that are changed) < 1258313576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that'll be why. < 1258313577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1258313584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "ogle"? < 1258313585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1258313591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that binary do < 1258313592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ogle is the debugger in process. < 1258313593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define ogle < 1258313595 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* look at with amorous intentions \ [23]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * The Optical Gravitational Lensing Experiment or OGLE is a Polish astronomical project based at Warsaw University that is chiefly concerned with ... < 1258313596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*progress < 1258313602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And [Go]ogle < 1258313610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know what ogle as a word means < 1258313616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258313617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ogling the program. :P < 1258313622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Go is the language, ogle is the rest. < 1258313623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Google. < 1258313625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that sounds dirty < 1258313633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes it does. < 1258313650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debugger are pretty dirty business. < 1258313670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know. There are jokes about google meaning "go ogle" < 1258313670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1258313670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will be fun to search for information on the debugger if "go ogle" returns jokes like that < 1258313676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although "go" by itself is more of an issue < 1258313679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(protip: "Go language") < 1258313694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or http://go-lang.cat-v.org/go-search < 1258313704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they should have opted for a non-existing word < 1258313714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is the people that brought you "C" < 1258313723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think they care about the accessibility of their name? < 1258313731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They care about conciseness and, in this case, puns. < 1258313732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, google didn't exist back then so they at least had an excuse < 1258313741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C wasn't googlable back then < 1258313767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google typofix heuristics seem to cause it to return pretty much the same things for (unquoted) "go ogle" and "google". (Of course you can fix it by adding some quotes or +s.) < 1258313785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or http://go-lang.cat-v.org/go-search <-- is the search box in the page footer!? < 1258313791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ken Thompson is 66! He has the most gnarly beard ever! He invented Unix and B and UTF-8 and ed and "Along with Joseph Condon, he created the hardware and software for Belle, a world champion chess computer", and worked on Plan 9! < 1258313791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries another browser < 1258313796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can do whatever the fuck he wants! < 1258313797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Enable JS < 1258313804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think the TOCs on golang.org require JS too) < 1258313813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. :P < 1258313824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Your loss. < 1258313843 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258313892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" He can do whatever the fuck he wants!" <-- even written reiserfs? < 1258313898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1258313905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grammar fail, making your joke incomprehensible. < 1258313909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even write or even wrote? < 1258313922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "could have" < 1258313928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258313931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1258313983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it isn't incomprehensible just because the grammar is slightly off I think. < 1258313990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was confused. < 1258313990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1258313997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy who has the language called "Go!" (with an exclamation mark) and published a book about it called "Lets Go!" (apparently adding an apostrophe to the title of that book was just too much work) amuses me. He didn't even "publish" the book, he self-published it on Lulu, which requires no humans. He did publish a research paper, however, but he doesn't even have a trademark on the name and he wouldn't get one, because Go is a fucking two-letter English wo < 1258313997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incredibly common! You can't own it... < 1258314001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, clog stopped logging < 1258314010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1258314019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*English word < 1258314019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1258314020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you give clog a line that's the max length < 1258314024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it logs one line behind < 1258314035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy who has the language called "Go!" (with an exclamation mark) and published a book about it called "Lets Go!" (apparently adding an apostrophe to the title of that book was just too much work) amuses me. He didn't even "publish" the book, he self-published it on Lulu, which requires no humans. He did publish a research paper, however, but he doesn't even have a trademark on the name and he wouldn't get one, because Go is a fucking two-letter English wo < 1258314035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incredibly common! You can't own it... < 1258314039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if it's two lines behind < 1258314083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1258314083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b < 1258314083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1258314122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, three < 1258314123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258314124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who owns clog? < 1258314134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what has "Go!" got to do with this? < 1258314134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where is that quote from? < 1258314134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nobody maintains it, François-René Rideau (fare) runs the server < 1258314137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author doesn't control it any more < 1258314137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not a quote < 1258314137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wrote it < 1258314138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and Go! is complaining to the Go authors < 1258314140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going "RABBLE RABBLE CHANGE THE NAME I OWN THE WORD 'GO' ALSO THE EXCLAMATION MARK IS IRRELEVANT" < 1258314154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=9 ;; click and see tons of people who know fuck all about the language and saw it on techcrunch whining < 1258314171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suggesting names, often with a "I give you permission to use this" as if google will actually consider it < 1258314202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[google should change the name ... i think its enough of google employee arrogance, < 1258314202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they think they are GOD's .. please come down to earth , you are humans.]] < 1258314211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :au contraire, I'm fairly sure Ken Thompson is a god < 1258314257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The suggested name there ("Issue 9") isn't too shabby either, though. < 1258314267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1258314272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda lame to name it that now, after the bug report. < 1258314291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I appreciate mc cabe for rising up to defend what is definitely his ... we are with < 1258314291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mc cabe, well done, go ahead .. may the force be with you.]] < 1258314291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Wars Episode VII: The Empire's Naming < 1258314307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Emperor's New Name.) < 1258314314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's Fnord) < 1258314324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1258314373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that "Go!", is it any good? < 1258314401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the guy whines so much and the only material is a self-published book that needs an apostrophe in the title and a research paper... < 1258314403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably crap < 1258314411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, putting a ! in your name makes you as bad as Yahoo!.) < 1258314421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the apostrophe isn't a sign of it being bad < 1258314424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(your name == name for thing you created) < 1258314425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ask augur < 1258314425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Lets Go" < 1258314429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and? < 1258314430 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick Sgeo! < 1258314435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur uses punctuation and capitalisation on his blog < 1258314451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway " (also, putting a ! in your name makes you as bad as Yahoo!.)" <-- counterproof: "Soundblaster Live!" was very good < 1258314461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, if it was "lets go" with some subdued typographical styling I could live with it < 1258314480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's http://static.lulu.com/items/volume_44/641000/641689/4/preview/320_641689.jpg?641689-0 < 1258314488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's clearly an error < 1258314488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well is Soundblaster Live! as bad as Yahoo! then? < 1258314491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes or no < 1258314496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people who have an error in such large print on a book title... < 1258314499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiots < 1258314505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it makes their creators as bad as Yahoo! < 1258314508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for naming it so idiotically < 1258314522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone calls it SBLive, anyway < 1258314548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe < 1258314604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# MPW has an integrated scripting system you can use to perform operations of arbitrary complexity." <-- yes, like it being impossible to write any control code like \a or such with it. just a few are supported < 1258314622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact in the MPW version you have ehird, even a LF can't be written in it < 1258314623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely hopes that nothing bad will come out of using something intended for Python 2.4 < 1258314626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a CR yes but a LF no < 1258314638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: make a tool to do it < 1258314646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FancyPrint "\a" < 1258314669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how does that help when I want to do the equiv of tr '\n' '\r' < 1258314670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258314678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is Translate < 1258314680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have $() < 1258314700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy Translate "\n" "\r" < 1258314700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, something like it. < 1258314706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err that won't work < 1258314709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy fancies every argument, then runs it. < 1258314714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tools can't call each other < 1258314718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I mentioned several times < 1258314729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then, what's the $()-like syntax? < 1258314746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with "" around I think < 1258314767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translate "$(F \n)" "$(F \r)" < 1258314769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still the newer MPW syntax works fine, other people can just upgrade to the version from Jan 2000 or later < 1258314780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System 6 users can't < 1258314780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't read what I just said? < 1258314790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With "" around I think, you said < 1258314792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$()-like syntax < 1258314811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sucks to be them because you will need to patch various stuff due to missing long long anyway < 1258314819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SC lacks support for long long < 1258314821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MrC handles it < 1258314824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do long long in System 6, anyway < 1258314836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can address 8 MiB of memory and that's that, and I think int is 16-bit < 1258314840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end < 1258314853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, please reboot your brain right now < 1258314861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1258314879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can do a 64 bit integer. I didn't say you would use it as a pointer... < 1258314881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 MiB = 23-bit addresses < 1258314885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 24-bit address bus < 1258314885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do 128 bit arithmetics just finme < 1258314887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine* < 1258314895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, again, who said anything about pointers? < 1258314906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just working it out < 1258314908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doing 128-bit arithmetic with 16-bit intst? < 1258314910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ints < 1258314911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you crazy? < 1258314915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's juggling 8 values < 1258314916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so slow... < 1258314918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would take multiple operations yes < 1258314922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quite possible < 1258314924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it need 64-bit? < 1258314953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird in a few places < 1258314970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuk (the debugger) once in cesspool.c and once in perpet.c < 1258314983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no clue what exactly it uses them for < 1258314985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just gripped < 1258315001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just s/long long/long/ and Don't Worry, Be Happy < 1258315024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I wonder how this PS/2→USB adapter handles sleeps and wakes < 1258315028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They work fine < 1258315033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oops, wrong. yuk needs it for timestamp it seems < 1258315047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timestamp in what format? < 1258315058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown I just grepped with -C 2 < 1258315062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go read the source yourself < 1258315086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1258315102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also < 1258315109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/perpet.c- fprintf(of,"\";\n\nint ick_iffi_markercount=%d;\n" < 1258315109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/perpet.c: "long long ick_iffi_markerposns[][2]={\n",markercount); < 1258315109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/perpet.c- if(!markercount) fprintf(of,"{0,0}\n"); < 1258315113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue what that does < 1258315117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68k is a sort of 32-bit processor anyway; the external bus is 16 bits wide, but the registers have 32 bits. It shouldn't be *that* slow. At least if you just do some additions and such. < 1258315142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how many GP registers? < 1258315163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's 323-bit? < 1258315164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*32 < 1258315170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think the system 6 finder is 16-bit < 1258315176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that 32-bit finder broke stuff < 1258315189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um not exactly. I think it has more than 16 bits memory < 1258315195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258315200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1258315200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory adressing* < 1258315210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't 16-bit in any sense of the word < 1258315218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Furthermore, they either have to convert back to zero-terminated strings < 1258315218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when passing them to libs, or use the trick of appending ("quand m�me") a < 1258315218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero byte, which is redundant wrt to the array lenght.]] — on Go < 1258315218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little does this wabbit realise they just do their own IO stuff! < 1258315223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hell with libc :P < 1258315242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_memory_management#32-bit_clean < 1258315266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258315267 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For that I had to check some references; eight 32-bit general-purpose registers (D0 .. D7) and eight 32-bit address registers (A0 .. A7). < 1258315276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basically "quite a mess" < 1258315288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[All this is more than just nit-picking. Pike claims a 10-20% loss compared < 1258315288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to C, which would still be quite good. However, the first benchmarks tell < 1258315288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another story at the moment:]] < 1258315288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all mac os memory management up until OS X was < 1258315289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1258315307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gc having the slow gc atm, the shootout programs being naive and non-concurrent (and GOMAXPROCS not being set anyway)... < 1258315309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : when passing them to libs, or use the trick of appending ("quand m�me") a <-- what is that question mark? < 1258315319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: some byte that was wrongly encoded for me < 1258315323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258315324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows up as that too for me < 1258315337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I wish people would stop talking about the shootout < 1258315345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, shootout? < 1258315352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language benchmarks game < 1258315356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shootout.alioth.debian.org < 1258315376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: For that I had to check some references; eight 32-bit general-purpose registers (D0 .. D7) and eight 32-bit address registers (A0 .. A7). <-- should be enough to do 128 bit arithmetics in registers most of the time < 1258315377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1258315381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problems are contrived for non-scientific work (and are benchmarks), it's biased against non-C like languages (they admit this) and the programs submitted vary wildly from hyper-optimised unreadable crazy shit and ultra-naive < 1258315417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, at least if you can do it in place (plus a few scratch) or don't need any scratch registers (but can't do it in place) < 1258315436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://repo.cat-v.org/goblin/ may end up being my coreutils < 1258315445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how fast they are, I guess < 1258315484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why go for them < 1258315490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258315493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why Go for them" < 1258315499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have been clearer < 1258315503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because uriel loves go < 1258315525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least "C" doesn't introduce ambig. when written < 1258315530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only when spoken) < 1258315532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1258315532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does Go < 1258315533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258315536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who* < 1258315547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah but I usually write most stuff in lower case < 1258315556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uriel is a major plan 9 community guy. his political opinions are... crazy, but he's a good coder < 1258315556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on irc I mena < 1258315558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrote werc) < 1258315558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean* < 1258315571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh the cat-v site owner? < 1258315576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258315579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258315583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have meant a lot more < 1258315593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reasons to use them: 1. uriel is a plan 9 weenie, he'll produce minimalist utilities 2. he knows more about go than most others, so the code should be high-quality 3. i like go 4. they will be very liberally licensed (public domain or ISC/MIT is his usual license) < 1258315596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also, goblin has been around for a few days at most? < 1258315601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1258315604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I said "may end up being" < 1258315608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how complete is it so far? < 1258315610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Go doesn't produce ambiguity when written < 1258315611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go does < 1258315615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you write it that way, that's your fault :P < 1258315618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably no to little code < 1258315634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the project has attributes that imply to me that it'll be a good choice < 1258315640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I should make a language called liTtLe < 1258315643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can always start with another coreutils and switch < 1258315643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1258315651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1258315654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a longer word < 1258315658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but common one < 1258315659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258315681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uriel *really* loves go; he's said that there's no reason to write user-space C code any more) < 1258315697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and is on-the-fence about kernel code until someone makes a kernel in go (presumably after the new gc is added)) < 1258315721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you still need to write some Go to write the GC in. Unless you want to write a whole GC in asm < 1258315724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do it in C < 1258315726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is cheating < 1258315730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1258315743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C isn't really cheating tbh) < 1258315764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they don't have plans to rewrite gc in Go, although with gccgo bootstrapping wouldn't be an issue nowadays) < 1258315772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well in this context... "no reason to write user-space C code" would imply the GC has no reason to be written in C < 1258315773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the stdlib includes a complete lexer and parser of go, though) < 1258315779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: user-space? < 1258315784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that too < 1258315785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, he said write < 1258315788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same applies to kernel space < 1258315790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course go itself is an exception < 1258315793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're pulling at straws < 1258315804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, C is usually written in C though < 1258315808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you love edge cases, but could you pick less obnoxious ones? < 1258315810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't see why Go can't be written in Go < 1258315834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, go does subtypes without inheritance very ewll < 1258315835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well < 1258315839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it basically makes composition convenient) < 1258315849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is thank god. < 1258315857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you mean? Example? < 1258315869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by composition I mean the unnamed fields becoming part of it < 1258315885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you can do aThingThatHasAnUnnamedFoo.MethodOnFoo()) < 1258315886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh so you avoid foo->bar->quux but do foo->quux? < 1258315890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258315898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, one thing that isn't obvious is that go structs can have both private and public members < 1258315900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well GCC does that as an extension < 1258315901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. Though it has some silly quirks. (For example, there's no "add with carry" instruction; instead, there's "add extended", which computes destination+source+[X bit from flags register]; X is mostly set to same as C, except it's not touched by all instructions.) < 1258315909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be compatible with MSVC iirc? < 1258315909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but without methods it's useless for this < 1258315915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Private members start with a capital letter, public members a lower < 1258315933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do aStruct.foo but not aStruct.Foo (unless the struct type is in this package, ofc) < 1258315955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you compose a struct into another struct you can't access its private fields ofc < 1258315960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is one of the main evils of inheritance) < 1258315968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm so you couldn't add two 128 bit ints then in registers? < 1258315973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to needing that X bit register < 1258315984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, ok, technically you can't access private inherited members, but most inheritance-using code ends up using things not in the main interface) < 1258315996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, most arches seems to have a carry flag in some specific flags register < 1258316006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas with go subtyping is just a convenient way to add stuff < 1258316016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you could do without subtyping, just more awkwardly < 1258316052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure you can. X is just another bit in the flags register, just like C. It's just quirky to have two different "carry" flags, with some instructions setting both, and some setting only one of them (C). < 1258316084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh now I see what you meant < 1258316089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders using a VCS as a package manager < 1258316098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, updating = pulling from each package repository < 1258316125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, directly to file system? interesting < 1258316137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a local branch for config file changes or such I guess < 1258316139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also means you can downgrade packages if you need to :P < 1258316152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, most sane package manager allows that < 1258316157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I mean it comes free < 1258316179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'll consider it; if it means my "package manager" is just a few helpers to call the VCS and some VCS config files, I'll go for it < 1258316180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, portage has very good support for installing different versions < 1258316202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it'll require a lot of work... ehh, I'll just write my own pkg manager < 1258316218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, writing your own also requires a lot of work < 1258316223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, exactly < 1258316228 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes he could wrap his mind around Cython < 1258316230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i have to do a lot of work to make it fit, I'll just write my own < 1258316243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it means that you could install something like dwm with source-based configuration and merge your config changes < 1258316250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the package manager special-casing it < 1258316262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw did you look closely at the image on that goblin page? < 1258316278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's postincrement and predecrement addressing modes for any of the eight address registers, that's pretty nice. Considering x86's complexity level, there's really very limited facilities for automatically manipulating addresses. ("push" and "pop", but they can only use esp/rsp as the address; and the stos/lods/movs string instructions, but they are always post-decrement/post-increment based on the direction flag, never pre-anything.) < 1258316281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1258316286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking now. < 1258316303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it seems disturbing. check the file name too < 1258316312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty silly, yes. < 1258316318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it looks like the goblin will explode him/her self? < 1258316324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? :P < 1258316333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. "disturbing" < 1258316337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly the Goblin tools represent their crashiness. < 1258316347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. < 1258316379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that increment/decrement thing? < 1258316379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1258316382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Ken Thompson actively posts on the Go mailing list. < 1258316399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean like reading at that address will automatically increment the address afterwards < 1258316404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just read it again < 1258316407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the next bit? < 1258316408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258316409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately it's a rather crappy list; most people going "lol i don't know shit (look at this benchmark|add this feature)" and some sane people replying "No, you're an idiot, fuck off") < 1258316410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byte* < 1258316426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Duff's device! < 1258316438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean the usual; *(x++) -style addressing. < 1258316449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is that related more than any other thing scanning over memory? < 1258316461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: look at it closely < 1258316466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be just as useful for strlen() < 1258316466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1258316467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 0: do{ *to = *from++; < 1258316468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258316469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1258316471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia changed it < 1258316472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1258316482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... < 1258316483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, changed it how? < 1258316483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/net.lang.c/msg/66008138e07aa94c < 1258316486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swear it was originally < 1258316489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to = *from; < 1258316492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was to memory mapped register < 1258316507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1258316508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but i recall something about it being *to = *from; < 1258316509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally < 1258316516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not that I know < 1258316643 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-32-141.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258316684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that link you gave shows it wasn't < 1258316692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but odd, no thread around it? < 1258316693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1258316696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just pure strange < 1258316703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1984 < 1258316707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of old messages are like that < 1258316714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people replied sparingly, replies were long and civil < 1258316720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh where someone saved a few only? < 1258316725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1258316729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258316734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(everyone had short signatures, quoted properly and at the bottom...) < 1258316738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(used bang-addresses... etc) < 1258316755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/net.lang.c/topics < 1258316762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last messages before the big 8 < 1258316858 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258316861 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/net.lang.c/topics?start=3206&sa=N <-- messages trough time :) < 1258316884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, ? < 1258316889 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost 30 year old messages < 1258316894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1258316948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not "almost 30"; those were written something like six months before I was born, and I am emphatically not "almost 30". < 1258316957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't plan9 has it's own language iirc? < 1258316973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how old are you? < 1258316981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is too lazy to do the math < 1258316990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26 or something iirc < 1258316997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not "almost 30"! < 1258316998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I could understand that < 1258317009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah 2009-1984 = 25 < 1258317015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I seem to recall him saying 26 or something < 1258317026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm wait < 1258317028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're from 1982 < 1258317033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sure if it is 26 or 27 I can understand that. But when you turn 29 you are definitely almost 30 < 1258317037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha fizzie had a birthday and is now 27 i guess < 1258317045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SHUT UP 30 IS THE SAME AS "ALMOST MID-LIFE CRISIS" < 1258317049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet, no. Add six months to those posting times. < 1258317051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is not almost almost mid-life crisis! :P < 1258317054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1258317055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26 then < 1258317071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 30 doesn't *require* a mid-life cfrisis < 1258317074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crisis* < 1258317075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 does < 1258317077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 30 is almost 40 < 1258317078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. I guess. It's a complicated calculation. Anyway, you have to round these things towards zero to get decades, anyway. < 1258317085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: don't worry, you're just almost 29.99999999999999999999999999999999999… < 1258317092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was an "anyway"-delimited message.) < 1258317118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as the representation starts with 2... < 1258317136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2+28" is just fine, too. < 1258317159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the crisis around 18 when you just realise you are now grown up and that you most likely have less than 1/5 of your life left? (sure you can become 100 or older, but unlikely, unless things changes drastically) < 1258317166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258317168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18? seriously? < 1258317168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less than 4/5 < 1258317170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1258317171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258317172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people mostly have a crisis around 25 < 1258317175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quarter-life crisis < 1258317190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that assumes you will live 100 years < 1258317191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been having a continuous crisis since I fully realised what my mortality implies :) < 1258317198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it to be quarter-life < 1258317204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shut up, it's just what the word meas < 1258317206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*means < 1258317231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i can do is have the faint hope of singularity, or maybe cryonics, who knows < 1258317236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. but yeah. I guess I only realised fully around 15 years old < 1258317259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew i was mortal and would die and would be nothing and all that shizz but at one point i just sat there and thought about nonexistence and have been freaking out since :P < 1258317262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then what is the crisis of 30 all about? < 1258317267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no crisis of 30 < 1258317269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or of 40 for that matter < 1258317273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking that 30 is close to 40 < 1258317275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258317277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1258317283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the 40 one about? < 1258317290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, tons of stuff < 1258317298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, mostly, it's "oh god, i'm 40, I've barely done anythhing" < 1258317300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anything < 1258317305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You can console yourself with the fact that, simply based on life expectancy and current age, your changes of getting to do a post-singularity mind-upload are better than mine. < 1258317306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah would make sense < 1258317316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/isdivorcethesolution/f/midlifecrisis.htm < 1258317321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlife_crisis < 1258317325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep! < 1258317325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my 18-years old crisis was "ouch there is so much to do, I will never have time to do everything I want" < 1258317332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: although cryonics makes it about equal < 1258317338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the chances are so low anyway :P < 1258317351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, my less-immediate crisis is "post-singularity, how can we avoid entropy?" < 1258317369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, by reversing polarity < 1258317371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want infinite time so i can know things forever < 1258317382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I bet it would become boring < 1258317386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buying a motorcycle is a common 50-years-old thing to do around here, I hear. < 1258317395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it truly became so boring for so long, then I would commit suicide. < 1258317401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same in Sweden < 1258317401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think it would < 1258317428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe instead of committing suicide, I'd first try turning myself off for a long time < 1258317436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(post-mind-upload that should be easy) < 1258317440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see what's new afterwards < 1258317463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to be honest i just like consciousness so much < 1258317476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you do now. < 1258317494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main beef with cryonics is that it's done after your death, but more importantly after your aging < 1258317503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, what if we get a Matrix or Terminator scenario instead? < 1258317509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to restore an 80-something year old to mid-20s intelligence? < 1258317517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure aging is reversible < 1258317521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I dread passing my mid-20s < 1258317522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what if the climate changes make everything end up badly < 1258317534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1258317534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: matrix and terminator are films. friendly ai would solve it < 1258317549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and climate change will be mostly irrelevant as soon as we colonise other planets < 1258317554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's the point. What if we end up with an unfriendly AI instead < 1258317560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and totally irrelevant once we're all running on silicon) < 1258317568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we have to write the friendly AI first < 1258317574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an unfriendly AI is written, nothing we can do about it < 1258317579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if we are hit by a K/T boundary style meteorite? < 1258317586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colonise other planets first. < 1258317592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION read The Metamorphesis of Prime Intellect < 1258317596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if we didn't have time? < 1258317598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1258317600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I want to read that sometime < 1258317604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then we are fucked. < 1258317611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a good signularity is far from certain < 1258317634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably will sign up for cryonics because it's cheap and it gives me a better chance of living longer < 1258317644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think aging is likely to be reversible, alas < 1258317648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could be overrun by a car way before it happens < 1258317654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I could be < 1258317665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing I can do except hope i'm not < 1258317669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you know, cryonics < 1258317679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if I smashed my brains out that'd be ... unlucky < 1258317683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cryonics won't help if the car destroys.. yea < 1258317683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Or, you know, getting an even bigger car to run other cars over with. < 1258317689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't we need to, you know, invent cryonics before that? < 1258317691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I MIGHT JUST < 1258317696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We... have cryonics. < 1258317702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alcor.org/ < 1258317708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cryonics.org/ < 1258317711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two main organisations. < 1258317721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can't revive people yet, but we're certainly freezing them. < 1258317724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Vitrifying, actually) < 1258317728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have cryonics that preserves brain structure yet, do we? < 1258317729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wikipedia says "Currently, human cryopreservation is not reversible, which means that it is not currently possible to bring people out of cryopreservation alive." indeed < 1258317740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no one knows if that will ever be possible < 1258317744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restoring them I mean < 1258317745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1258317755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, better than 0% possibility of ever being alive again < 1258317758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's quite cheap, and I place a near-infinite value on living past my "death" < 1258317763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, sure, but still < 1258317770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can freeze to death can't you? < 1258317775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So even though the probability of being revived is not that high, tiny*near-infinite is > the price of cryonics < 1258317780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Vitrification is not freezing < 1258317791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Livers have been vitrified, thawed and implanted < 1258317792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Animal) < 1258317794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it worked < 1258317800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1258317801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with a mouse brain or something, iirc < 1258317803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-death naturally < 1258317817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if cryoni...cised shortly after death, presumably the information won't be totally lost < 1258317831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a matter of thawing it out safely, quickly doing the repair needed, and basically making the signals fire again < 1258317832 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :facsimile < 1258317843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1258317849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I can imagine some year 2300 cryotechnician cursing out loud about how we stupid twenty-first century people used these absurdly primitive methods and how reviving us is such a pain in the ass, but how it still needs to be done thanks to some politics bullshit about not just turning power off to the damn things. < 1258317856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1258317866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be better if, before I die, it becomes legal to be cryopreserved before death < 1258317878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on my life expectancy I could get frozen at 80-something < 1258317885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I die of something < 1258317888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which increases my chances hugely < 1258317904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'm not too interested lumbering about with a brain that barely works anyway) < 1258317916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would probably go for the neuro option, and donate his organs < 1258317934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alcor doesn't offer neuropreservation (just store the head) iirc < 1258317954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that the chance of cryonic revival happening before at least robotic bodies is low < 1258317955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that does lower the probability of being revived (what if it requires the body) < 1258317966 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, neither does CI, the other place you linked to) < 1258317971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CI does neuropreservation < 1258317977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I have it the wrong way around < 1258317982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cryonics.org/prod.html < 1258317987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Q: What's the "neuro" option? And why don't you offer it?" < 1258317991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think perhaps the spine should be preserved too < 1258318002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as iirc you can develop reflexes in the spine < 1258318043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my long-term perfect scenario is being a post-singularity uploaded mind forever. < 1258318054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess pretty similar to The Culture, which I need to read sometime. < 1258318064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also similar to TMoPI < 1258318085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I don't really want is to merge with other brains < 1258318089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minds < 1258318100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fond of my individuality < 1258318108 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: why is your name what it is? < 1258318178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Prime Intellect operates under Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics" < 1258318181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail < 1258318191 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of freezing myself, i'm going to melt myself into liquid. < 1258318209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258318247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i think one of the x-men can do that :P < 1258318280 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can he live forever that way < 1258318292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is that automatically fail? < 1258318296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the water dies at one point < 1258318307 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258318311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the three laws of robotics both constrict too much and also allow evil < 1258318377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1258318500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Culture culture is a pretty nice culture; I don't think I would mind living there. (Though if you canonically believe the The State of the Art novella, the Culture has already checked out Earth in 1977, and decided not to get involved. Because, you see, they need a bit of a control group to justify the morality of them getting involved elsewhere, which is a bit of a bummer from our viewpoint.) < 1258318530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ? < 1258318538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this "Culture culture"? < 1258318563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What ehird referred to; the universe of (some of) Iain M. Banks' books. < 1258318573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi there < 1258318578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some ick issues < 1258318587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like it is looking for :lib:/syslib.i < 1258318590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Congrats on figuring out the premise of half of Asimov's robot stories. :P < 1258318596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lawls < 1258318602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not have a ICK_PATHSEP that can be \ / or : < 1258318611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that ick_fopenorwhatever function? < 1258318613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suck at coding < 1258318614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frrlz < 1258318615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly < 1258318629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to read the combination of "some lick issues; like it is looking for :lib:/syslib.i" as something like "I want to lick your eyeball". < 1258318637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: when reading about it on wp one issue i had was that not suicidin' after some time is considered eccentric < 1258318656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and why are those ick_findand* so ugly? And why the huge code duplication between ick_findandtestopen and ick_findandfopen? < 1258318683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the alternative is to write a wrapper for fopen that gives it the same argument list as freopen, then pass around function pointers everywhere < 1258318685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION read that as ick_finland < 1258318689 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1258318691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, further, the MPW equiv. of tr refuses to operate on syslib.3i and higher due to them not being text files < 1258318695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ICK_PATHSEP would be fine, though < 1258318713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I'm having trouble following the horrible function logic there < 1258318723 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1258318724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I showed ehird it and he said he would just rewrite it from scratch < 1258318726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's relatively simple, it just checks several possible locations for the file < 1258318738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that ugly due to C being truly awful at string handling < 1258318738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however to do that I need to know how the hell it is supposed to work < 1258318740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, ais523 < 1258318744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it repeats some code tons of times < 1258318747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hardcodes path separators < 1258318755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a jumble of code without empty lines < 1258318757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to mark logical breaks < 1258318760 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-164-32-141.range86-164.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1258318762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the two functions are copypastes with somee changes < 1258318766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*logical breaks *some < 1258318774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at programming forever :| < 1258318777 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divisive issue? D: < 1258318795 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what are you talking about, fail? That's a textbook example of code reuse! < 1258318811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: it's the people on Gr* vs. everyone else < 1258318838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everyone can see. Here is the whole file: http://sprunge.us/CUSH?c < 1258318843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1258318847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mainly it's Gregor vs me because nobody else knows go yet < 1258318855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody else has about it, at least < 1258318859 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote some stuff in it < 1258318866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I've seen you in #go-nuts < 1258318873 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have seen you! :o < 1258318888 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, a 512-line IRC client that evaluates code sent to it over the internet < 1258318893 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Go code < 1258318903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see what happened there < 1258318914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two functions were a lot more different than that originally < 1258318917 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be running it in Arch Linux in VirtualBox, neither of which I've used before. but it seems to be going well. < 1258318921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but over the corse of refactoring, ended up mostly the same < 1258318922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that code is not good practise in any sense. And I have no idea where to start fixing it because I can't follow it. I could rewrite it, but I wouldn't know if I introduced new issues < 1258318929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-of the opposite of what code duplicatoin normally does < 1258318954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: omg that code is aging backwards! < 1258318970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, to begin with it needs to know that you can't just throw in an extra ICK_PATHSEP anywhere. because foo// is safe but foo:: is not < 1258318974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because foo:: is foo/../ < 1258318985 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of looks like that code is not meant to be read < 1258318988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: why not use your host system? < 1258318999 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: paranoia < 1258319008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1258319015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called? put it in here < 1258319016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and in my tests argv0 was always relative current dir. unless it was run as an alias, in which case it was relative the alias < 1258319024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, alias being similar to a symlink, but not quote < 1258319026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite* < 1258319042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: argv[0] is the command used to run the program < 1258319047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's relative current dir if you write ../build/ick < 1258319051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that is what I'm talking about < 1258319056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and absolute if you write /home/ais523/esoteric/intercal/latest/build/ick < 1258319062 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'll also be using setrlimit in the main process, so the go-compiling subprocesses will have sbrk fail relatively early if they start, e.g., making a 1GB array < 1258319071 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go-running, more importantly < 1258319073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1258319076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what would be cool? < 1258319080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argv0 could be either absolute or relative as a result < 1258319085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a mac path is absolute if and only if it 1) doesn't start with a : 2) contains at least one : < 1258319086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could dynamically load .(arch) files < 1258319094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 6c foo.c; blah foo.6 < 1258319098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if it starts with a : it is relative, if it contains no : at all, it is relative < 1258319099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it basically dlopen()s foo.6 < 1258319100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think separate functions for Mac from UNIX/Windows might be needed < 1258319108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1258319110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out what to do < 1258319112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the rules for forming paths are substantially different < 1258319113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah < 1258319121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or you could just tell me exactly what it is supposed to do and let me rewrite it *clean* < 1258319121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace the ../ stuff with things that calculate the actual path (you bum) < 1258319124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with well factored out code < 1258319126 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that might be interesting < 1258319128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and replace / or \ with ICK_PATHSEP < 1258319134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1258319137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: yes, it'd abolish dynamic linking but keep dynamic loading < 1258319147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need to handle / on *nix and \ on dos/windows < 1258319164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only : on mac < 1258319180 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm somewhat selfish, personally.. don't care about non-386. But that would be neat. < 1258319193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: I meant .8 too < 1258319194 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you not being in #hackiki is wrong. Please correct. < 1258319205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackiki is a tiny toy project, why does it need a channel < 1258319208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I have no clue what the function is supposed to do. As in, sure I could look in guesspath and current dir < 1258319211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: also, 6g is older and more robust than 8g < 1258319211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that all it does? < 1258319212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: so nyah < 1258319214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something more? < 1258319220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: (6=64-bit) < 1258319225 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh. sowat < 1258319231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your computer old or sth? admittedly my distro will be i686 < 1258319251 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also, dynamic loading is sort of against the design goals of the language, I thoght < 1258319268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: for normal use, yes < 1258319271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it'd be a fun hack :P < 1258319283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it looks in several dirs for a file < 1258319292 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, my CPU supports 64 bit. I don't want to spend the effort to find out if every single app I use regularly doesn't break with it < 1258319294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hard coded ones, and always /? < 1258319299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's pure wrong < 1258319306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guessdir, current dir, ../lib, ../include < 1258319330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I think there may be some mac specific API to get current dir. And yes what the hell is up with syslib.3i not being a text file? < 1258319348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Most apps don't break on x86_64 any more. < 1258319348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably INTERCAL doesn't look very much like text < 1258319356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, syslib.i worked fine < 1258319358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a small handful do; I've got a VM for those) < 1258319364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not .3i and above < 1258319369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what is the difference there < 1258319376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there are some operators that only exist in base 3 and above < 1258319383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, outside ascii? < 1258319384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the variations of @ < 1258319391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although @ isn't outside ASCII, maybe Macs don't like it < 1258319396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: you use ubuntu right? < 1258319401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, 64-bit will work absolutely splendidly < 1258319406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. ASCII here means lower 127 chars < 1258319424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I'm pretty sure @ is outside that < 1258319429 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"." < 1258319440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it isn't used in befunge98 and befunge98 use all the lower 127 chars < 1258319445 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but for go, how is 6g better, now? < 1258319445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from control codes) < 1258319448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: @ is inside the lower 127 < 1258319450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it's 64 < 1258319455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it is < 1258319455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it ends a program in befunge98 < 1258319456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258319459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to wake up < 1258319459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or befunge93 fwiw < 1258319468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you didn't come in so late during evening < 1258319476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: < 1258319477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amd64 (a.k.a. x86-64); 6g,6l,6c,6a < 1258319477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most mature implementation. The compiler has an effective optimizer (registerizer) and generates good code (although gccgo can do noticeably better sometimes). < 1258319478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :386 (a.k.a. x86 or x86-32); 8g,8l,8c,8a < 1258319478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comparable to the amd64 port. Not as well soaked but should be nearly as solid. < 1258319487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: they're completely separate backends < 1258319496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so amd64 probably has a better optimiser, and is maybe faster and stabler < 1258319515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is much easier to optimise for amd64. < 1258319528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The poor register allocator doesn't have as much work to do. < 1258319530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... syslib.i is LF ended. but syslib.3i is CRLF < 1258319530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, registers < 1258319531 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does have more register space, eh? < 1258319533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that could cause it < 1258319541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Twice the register space. < 1258319545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, registers make me consider making my distro amd64 < 1258319555 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a further division in the whole binary-dividing-of-general-registers things < 1258319555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as well as 6g) < 1258319565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, let me test if it works when first converted to LF. < 1258319578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, not CRLFs in the distro again < 1258319580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hmm. You could even completely and utterly avoid most of the not-niceness of dual-lib setups. < 1258319588 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is there a blank white bar in Chrome? < 1258319592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the bottom? < 1258319592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah but... still < 1258319593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens every now and then, thanks for warning me when that happens < 1258319596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: extensionnos < 1258319597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*extensions < 1258319599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you install one < 1258319603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1258319606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: restart chrome < 1258319609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Still? < 1258319618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it just disappeared. Didn't disappear by itself last time I had it, though < 1258319622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: at least everything works on 386, no problems at all, and I don't even have to consider dual-lib < 1258319642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Given that you're doing static linking, you'd be able to mostly ignore it, anyways. < 1258319646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, whatever. < 1258319665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Silently having 32-bit binaries and libs in /bin and /lib sounds "scary" < 1258319683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit binaries generally get stuck in /bin as is normal. < 1258319697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd probably still want a /lib32, though. < 1258319701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay I found it. It was more complex than CRLF < 1258319723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was due to mac file type not being set to TEXT < 1258319735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, something in the importer < 1258319736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, which is directory and shit-i-have-to-care-about bloat :P < 1258319737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reason for that was it didn't auto translate .3i to anything < 1258319747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, .i was auto translated to some bbedit lite file < 1258319751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source code for something I guess < 1258319751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eh, I can always bait-n-switch people to amd64 if i deem it to be a good idea < 1258319759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ended up with TEXT < 1258319761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Only if you want 32-bit libraries at all. :P < 1258319762 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: since I know next-to-nothing about 64-bit computing.. if /proc/cpuinfo supports lm, I should be fine, ne? < 1258319776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: just boot the 64-bit ubuntu livecd and see if it works :-P < 1258319778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thus I have to figure out how to make a "clean up file types" tool < 1258319781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: what cpu model is it < 1258319787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mac < 1258319791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Upgrade. By the way, this will make your system amd64." < 1258319796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hahah. < 1258319830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I turn batshit insane and want multiple archs I guess I'd just have /$arch/pkg/ < 1258319840 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name is Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7250 @ 2.00GHz < 1258319850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: all core 2 duos are 64-bit < 1258319852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, that'd probably work best. < 1258319875 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. well, I'm not gonna reinstall Ubuntu for now, but I am going to reinstall 64-bit arch < 1258319878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't generally need 32 bit libraries. Exceptions: libc. Most apps nowdays work as 64-bit. I know two remaining ones: zsnes and wine < 1258319890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because on windows the transition hasn't really happened yet) < 1258319891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkg.distro.org/686/foo/ < 1258319912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkg.distro.org/686/foo/tree/ (wonder if it should be tree/ or root/) < 1258319936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkg.distro.org/686/foo/mkfile (for my maintenance use, although i could make this part of the installation process i guess) < 1258319948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkg.distro.org/686/foo/info (I guess. the general "package file") < 1258319949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 686!? that won't work on my old hypothetical i486 then! < 1258319962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps http://pkg.distro.org/686/foo/install.sh for install scripts and stuff < 1258319964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1258319966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install.rc < 1258319970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... I have a 64-bit zsnes... < 1258319980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1258319988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pkg.distro.org/amd64/foo/tree/ < 1258319989 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsnes only has 32-bit asm code, but we're living in the future, you don't need to use the asm. < 1258319993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wait what? Since when? And on gentoo it is just 32-bit with multilib < 1258319994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc at first it'll just be /foo/tree/ < 1258319999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. I thought I did. < 1258320010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it does -m32, then. < 1258320016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes < 1258320019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258320030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I make multi-arch setups i'll just make /foo/ return "404 Use PKGREPO=http://pkg.distro.org/686/" instead < 1258320036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what exactly is the job of the find_* functions < 1258320038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a name for 404 I just made up! < 1258320042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer just to change one < 1258320044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray for HTTP's flexibility! < 1258320048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's just emulators that don't do x86_64. < 1258320057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to find the location of a file like the skeleton or the syslib < 1258320058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as in, you merged them < 1258320059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and open it < 1258320062 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. for the arch virtual machine specifically, is i686 or x86_64 better? < 1258320066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how is it supposed to search? < 1258320067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly, freopen it < 1258320071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it checks a series of locations < 1258320077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.archlinux.org/news/440/ < 1258320080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the difference between the test and fopen ones? < 1258320083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch Linux are dropping i686 support... < 1258320085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I got a not-"-m32" really-64-bit zsnes compiled, though. It needed quite a pile of hacking, and crashed when ran, but it *compiled*. < 1258320087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: testopen doesn't leave the file open < 1258320089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: What is your host OS? < 1258320091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can freopen it afterwards < 1258320091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check date < 1258320093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, duh < 1258320099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: If 32-bit, 32-bit; else 64-bit. < 1258320100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Zsnes has a lot of assembly, IIRC. < 1258320104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't use Arch, I didn't know. < 1258320117 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu, 32 bit. I probably need 64-bit Ubuntu to run 64-bit Arch, huh? :/ < 1258320122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "2009-04-01" < 1258320126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *plonk* < 1258320127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And? < 1258320130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use Arch. < 1258320132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 1 April < 1258320133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't read their news. < 1258320135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiot < 1258320135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh. < 1258320146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They could have written it less... sanely. < 1258320151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I was half-agreeing by the end. < 1258320163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Quake II is 32-bit only. (It's also compiled with egcs XD) < 1258320165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED! :P < 1258320184 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: *is* it possible to run 64-bit VM on 32-bit OS, with 64-bit CPU? damn, I am such a newbie at this. gr < 1258320194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when I pasted the date you still didn't understand.... Well, I think "idiot" was fully justified there < 1258320195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Yes, but it'll emulate 64-bit. < 1258320196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: Yes. < 1258320197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. < 1258320203 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek. < 1258320205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't recognise ISO dates like that. < 1258320206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ file /usr/bin/* | grep 32-bit < 1258320206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/fnt2bdf: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped < 1258320206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/skype: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, stripped < 1258320207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1258320210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one is pretty strange. < 1258320216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't associate 2009-04-01 with April 1 < 1258320218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what sort of strange dates do you use then? < 1258320221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see an obvious reason for fnt2bdf to be 32-bit. < 1258320224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, YYYY-MM-DD < 1258320226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always use that < 1258320228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I use ISO dates, but I know April Fool's Day as April 1. < 1258320229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of sorting < 1258320231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stop telling me what to do. < 1258320235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do what the hell I like. < 1258320241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1258320243 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :particularly, VirtualBox is saying "VT-x/AMD-V hardware acceleration has been enabled, but is not operational." < 1258320248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I said "no, it won't be slow" < 1258320256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can switch to it then reset it < 1258320257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No what won't be slow? < 1258320262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if cpu supports 64-bit < 1258320263 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your 64-bit guest will fail to detech a 64-bit OS" blah blah < 1258320263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't said that yet. < 1258320271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it will be sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. <-- that < 1258320276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fnt2bdf is a part of wine-bin-unstable, so that's why it's 32-bit. < 1258320279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never said no it won't be slow < 1258320285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, vmware on 32-bit windows did some nasty cpu tricks. < 1258320286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:24] AnMaster: ehird, I said "no, it won't be slow" < 1258320289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did not say that < 1258320292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, whatever < 1258320294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: anyway, just run it as 32-bit < 1258320307 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg okay < 1258320311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, point is. you can switch to 64-bit then later switch back to 32-bit (before returning control to host < 1258320327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it even worked on my old sempron with a 32-bit host os running 64-bit guest < 1258320334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it refused to do that on a 32-bit cpu < 1258320352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No real point though < 1258320352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it < 1258320355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to switch back I mean) < 1258320383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it < 1258320384 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :104| I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it < 1258320390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : particularly, VirtualBox is saying "VT-x/AMD-V hardware acceleration has been enabled, but is not operational." <-- sure your cpu supports that then? < 1258320391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster — the best choice for VM magic. < 1258320393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is all of it. < 1258320398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wow... < 1258320399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1258320402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not 100" < 1258320403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258320404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a /usr/bin/lddlibc4. < 1258320405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ? < 1258320410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1258320411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1258320412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1258320420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Quake II is linked with libc5 < 1258320421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was a damn typo of course < 1258320426 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently, ehird says my model supports it < 1258320426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it requires SDL dynamic, I think < 1258320429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So? I can still addquote it < 1258320433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: No I said it does 54-bit < 1258320434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*64 < 1258320437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, check /proc/cpuinfo < 1258320437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the same thing as VT-x < 1258320443 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it says 'lm' < 1258320444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Gracenotes: No I said it does 54-bit < 1258320445 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :105| Gracenotes: No I said it does 54-bit < 1258320449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, that's 64-bit < 1258320454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`info < 1258320454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, not VT-x < 1258320455 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File: dir, Node: Top This is the top of the INFO tree \ \ This (the Directory node) gives a menu of major topics. \ Typing "q" exits, "?" lists all Info commands, "d" returns here, \ "h" gives a primer for first-timers, \ "mEmacs" visits the Emacs manual, etc. \ \ In Emacs, you can click mouse button < 1258320455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1258320457 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh huh < 1258320464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. I installed emul-linux-x86-compat.. < 1258320465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your knee-jerk reaction against my quoting your typo is irriitating < 1258320466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1258320467 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1258320470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your typo was funny when read that way < 1258320472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine wasn't < 1258320482 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ AnMaster: okay, in terms of hardware knowledge, I am a dumb terminal. meh. < 1258320482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 313 < 1258320483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes, I think it is either vmx or smx that is for the VT-x stuff < 1258320483 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1258320494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sticks old libc versions into the library path somewhere. < 1258320494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 312 < 1258320495 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1258320496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whooo. < 1258320514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1258320543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, either both stays or both goes < 1258320554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are getting emotional over a quote of a funny typo < 1258320557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likening it to an unfunny typo < 1258320559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop it, it's childish < 1258320566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my typo wasn't funny at all < 1258320568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your wasn't either < 1258320569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody hates you because that was quoted < 1258320570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so same thing < 1258320574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 67 < 1258320574 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :67| Reality isn't a part of physics < 1258320575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1258320577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 97 < 1258320577 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97| i am sad ( of course by analogy) :) smileys) < 1258320579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 910 < 1258320579 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258320580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 10 < 1258320581 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10| what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. < 1258320582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1258320583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 100 < 1258320584 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100| Warrigal: what do you mean by 21? < 1258320586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 102 < 1258320587 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :102| I want to read about Paris in the period 1900-1914 not about the sexual preferences of a bunch of writers >.> < 1258320590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the fucking thing < 1258320591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 110 < 1258320592 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258320594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 109 < 1258320595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, scrollback < 1258320595 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258320597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 107 < 1258320598 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258320600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mehh < 1258320601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 103 < 1258320602 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103| i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program < 1258320604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 104 < 1258320605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......................... < 1258320605 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1258320607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1258320608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAM SPAM SPAM < 1258320611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you reverted it in /msg < 1258320614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how childish, not even letting us know < 1258320615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I didn't < 1258320619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did it in channel < 1258320625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1258320627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 313 < 1258320628 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1258320631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 104 < 1258320632 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :104| I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it < 1258320635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert 314 < 1258320636 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1258320638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you think that's funny? < 1258320638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1258320641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even mildly? < 1258320642 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1258320646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why are you getting childish over the one I added < 1258320651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is what you are doing < 1258320659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're trying to remove it, I'm trying to stop you removing it < 1258320667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are removing the one I added < 1258320671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to stop that < 1258320677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what you are doing < 1258320681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: stop this fucking bullshit plz < 1258320689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure it was. You began by reverting mine < 1258320707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, please make ehird be sensible < 1258320712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Meh. < 1258320723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see? < 1258320729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: AnMaster is bawwing and overreacting because i added a funny-in-my-opinion typo of his, and then he added a random typo of mine that had no possibility of a joke (and he admits this), plz step into this dispute because AnMaster is so socially retarded that he can't accept people finding typos of him funny and is deeply upset by it < 1258320744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ, and you call me childish < 1258320807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I added a quote I thought was funny, ehird began by reverting it. So I reverted the one he added too. He didn't like that (of course). Still it shows some extreme hypocrisy from his side. < 1258320819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Funny, because you said: < 1258320842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:29] AnMaster: ehird, my typo wasn't funny at all < 1258320842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:29] AnMaster: your wasn't either < 1258320846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yawn* < 1258320857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and? < 1258320870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously what we need is: ARBCOM to solve the case. < 1258320870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To everyone who isn't a socially incapable retard who can't sleep if someone thinks a typo he made is funny: 32-bit advantages: support for older hardware, no multilib stuff, marginally more compatibility; amd64 advantages: 6g is more stable, MOAR REGISTERS!!11123423 < 1258320878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I just used your definition of "funny" last time < 1258320879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1258320909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think AnMaster was raped by a HackBot quote as a young boy or something, because he's done exactly this before... < 1258320927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ARBCOM? < 1258320945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: More memory, also. < 1258320945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A shady Wikipedia cabal, the final judge, jury and executioner of all thinks Wiki. < 1258320953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 64-bit just uses PAE. < 1258320958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can do that with 32-bit, too. < 1258320966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Arbitration Committee, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM < 1258320968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "just"... < 1258320982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, when I'm bored, I go and read ArbCom's case archives. < 1258320990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAE just lets you have more physical address space to map into a process's address space. < 1258321005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't let you map more than 4G per process, still. < 1258321032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit lets you map in quite a bit more stuff. Making mmap'ing an entire file feasible. Hooray. < 1258321044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 64-bit is more than PAE. For a start: PAE is limited at 64 GB iirc. 64-bit has a higher limit. < 1258321044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what pikhq said < 1258321044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but only scientists use more than 4 GiB per process and they deserve to DIE IN A FIRE BECAUSE THEY USE HERETIC WITCHCRAFT. < 1258321044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem. < 1258321044 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1258321044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few more things < 1258321047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 GiB, oh lord, I am so scared. < 1258321053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am absolutely targeting mainframes. < 1258321054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely/ < 1258321055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, agreed < 1258321061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Absolutely. < 1258321067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 640kb *is* enough for everyone < 1258321068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, it's very freaking hard to go beyond what PAE lets you use per-system. < 1258321070 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1258321075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what kinda pr ograms do you write that mmap a >4 GiB file < 1258321080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1258321082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't. < 1258321089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a database file? < 1258321090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use then < 1258321091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying. < 1258321098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just a suggestion < 1258321101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 32 GiB, not 64 GiB, BTW. < 1258321109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that low heh < 1258321115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"low" < 1258321137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's the Microsoft limitation, not the actual limitation. Never mind, it is 64 GiB. < 1258321139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see what I said. I guess that in 5-10 years it will be low. < 1258321146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah interesting < 1258321148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the crazy super-high-spec Mac Pro people who swap in their own slightly-higher-clock CPU by covering up some pins don't have 32 GiB of RAM < 1258321152 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1258321163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In 5-10 years I can fucking change a few lines to switch to amd64. < 1258321175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over-4G processes aren't that rare on our cluster; admittedly we are a part of those heretic witchcrafty people. < 1258321183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also there is the register thing. And somewhat saner ISA. And some other things < 1258321192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ISA isn't saner. < 1258321193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah. shame on you < 1258321200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not much. a bit < 1258321201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :registers i mentioned. < 1258321205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: infinitesimally. < 1258321213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is RIP too < 1258321220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 and derivatives are so shit that i don't care about the ISA < 1258321227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about RIP? < 1258321230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is RIP. < 1258321232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Apparently mplayer attempts to mmap files it opens. < 1258321247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, relative IP adressing < 1258321269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i care < 1258321271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do i care < 1258321280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, allows fast re-allocatable code. Allowing stuff like PIE executables for example < 1258321304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It allows address-space randomisation to occur without a performance hit. < 1258321305 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mmaps the internet < 1258321316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And dynamic linking has hardly any performance hit... < 1258321317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useful for high security systems to make addresses harder to guess. PIE is slow on 32-bit x86 < 1258321320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: position-independent you mean? < 1258321325 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's a tuberwebs FS for FUSE :P < 1258321334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I said PIE didn't I? < 1258321334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do that with static binaries so i give no shits < 1258321383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and scbl mmap()s 8 GB iirc on x86-64 < 1258321401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, on -64. < 1258321403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that is overcommitting memory < 1258321417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still having more than 4 GB ram is nice < 1258321423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and useful for mmap or such < 1258321429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :database was already mentioned < 1258321450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to assume SSE support is also nice. < 1258321452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 GiB of per-process RAM is all < 1258321459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 686 has sse doesn't it < 1258321462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about an emulator mmaping a dvd? < 1258321465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No. < 1258321469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't do that :P < 1258321472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm < 1258321474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :686 doesn't even necessarily have MMX. < 1258321478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still absolutely don't want a /lib32... < 1258321479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, seems sane enough to me < 1258321485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1258321496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so use /lib and /lib64 ? < 1258321497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1258321500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lib32 then < 1258321502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, no. < 1258321521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 686, you can only assume that you have a floating point unit. < 1258321553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway. you won't need much multilib. libc (including libpthreads and libm, same package) that's about it < 1258321558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ncurses too < 1258321564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, idea: /lib/32 < 1258321569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1258321570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the few 32-bit libraries needed < 1258321574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not? < 1258321582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason < 1258321603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i definitely want quake ii to run, which is a "yikes" case of a libc5, egcs-compiled 32-bit binary < 1258321620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i think it dynamically loads sdl, i wonder if you can like, delink something < 1258321621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, better code optimisation base. a generic 686 target can't assume any sort of vector registers like MMX or SSE (like pikhq said) < 1258321621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and relink it < 1258321624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of other stuff < 1258321631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doesn't matter, things are fast enough < 1258321632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the baseline 64-bit is much higher < 1258321652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me that when you want to watch decode a dvd :P < 1258321660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for you know watching < 1258321671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1258321700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or encode a dvd for burning < 1258321707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wait extra time < 1258321725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy an ssd, be happy < 1258321725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and there are more quirks to support everything from 686 and up < 1258321728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, won < 1258321730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't help < 1258321733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for encoding < 1258321735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for burning < 1258321737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it will, decoding to disk < 1258321738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1258321739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is CPU intensive < 1258321741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fast enough < 1258321744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1258321746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 686, your system actually checks for the damned floating-point bug. < 1258321747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvds are slow, stop using them < 1258321753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :-D < 1258321755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed. < 1258321755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's totally an advantage < 1258321761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f00f! < 1258321821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I bet you can do a pure 64-bit distro with no multilib. You would have to use something else than grub of course < 1258321832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using lilo anyway. < 1258321833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need something to compile parts of the kernel for boot up code < 1258321842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure if it supports being compiled with 64-bit tools < 1258321857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, tell me how I'd do Quake II without multilib. :P < 1258321864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 32-bit, egcs-compiled, libc5-using. Go! < 1258321891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 32/64-bit capable assembler (like nasm by default) + a 32/64 bit capable linker (easy too) < 1258321891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroot! < 1258321893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Static link that shit. < 1258321894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258321901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what pikhq said < 1258321903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1258321913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But it's distributed as a binary. < 1258321922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balls. < 1258321929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I totally need an unld. < 1258321941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns a binary into an .o and a .plaintextinfoaboutthebinary < 1258321941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it statically or dynamically linked? because if it is dynamic anyway you are lost < 1258321947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't work for your distro < 1258321953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can tweak the .plaintextinfoaboutthebinary and ld the .o and some other stuff. < 1258321959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That sounds rather hard to o. < 1258321960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not if I relink it. < 1258321962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do. < 1258321964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Badum-tish! < 1258321965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1258321968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had to fix the typo. < 1258321972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You do Quake II without multilib by using a more modern version of it than some strange libc5-linked egcs-compiled binary. < 1258322000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ehh, the thing I was doing was the official Quake II server. < 1258322008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: surely unld of a binary to an .o is easy < 1258322026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really < 1258322042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not really. < 1258322060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1258322074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I dunno. 686 just feels so much more universal. < 1258322077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that was late < 1258322089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory and registers... they just don't bother me that severely. < 1258322092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's supporting CPUs as old as you are. < 1258322099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how much ram do you have? < 1258322120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and will you use PAE? it is quite a hack < 1258322127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit uses PAE, you dolt. < 1258322132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like the opposite of what you want < 1258322136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, extended PAE yes < 1258322142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is quite a hack as well. < 1258322143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however. on 32-bit it is more of a hack < 1258322148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than it is on 64-bit < 1258322148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1258322152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how so? < 1258322156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There's no baseline above 686 < 1258322166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a hack on 64-bit just as much. < 1258322170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 is a baseline nowadays. < 1258322171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is. amd64 < 1258322175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another baseline < 1258322176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1258322182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first Intel 64-bit CPU came out in 2006. < 1258322191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything sold in the past 4 years supports it. < 1258322193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And AMD CPUs suck. < 1258322197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, Atom hates you! < 1258322202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You suck. < 1258322211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh, right. Some of the Atoms don't support it. < 1258322211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stares at you. IT STARES AT YOU WITH ITS EYE. Also it tries to kill you with its 4W of heat. < 1258322218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN YOU FEEL THE HEAT < 1258322229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oooh that must be a pentium4 right? < 1258322237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that the answer to the riddle? < 1258322240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's based on Pentium 4's NetBurst < 1258322242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :architecture < 1258322259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I think < 1258322266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1258322305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, a lot of the best ThinkPads are 32-bit < 1258322305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. X40 < 1258322343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and? a lot of good computers are outdated by now < 1258322346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's no new < 1258322348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news* < 1258322356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but they're good and still quite zippy. < 1258322363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run Ubuntu on them, no problems. < 1258322366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pentium M. < 1258322376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think not supporting them is a good idea. < 1258322380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can run linux on my old first gen ibook with no issues < 1258322383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it from a live cd < 1258322388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your point? < 1258322391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's PPC and shit. < 1258322400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and? < 1258322402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThinkPads are one of the best PCs ever. < 1258322408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they suck recently, so the old ones are very popular. < 1258322411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1258322447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't think my one is too bad. maybe no the golden days, but it is fast and snappy and supports VT-x and so on < 1258322453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and roubust < 1258322462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the wlan issue magically fixed itself as of recently < 1258322470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, that version of Pentium M (if it's the 400 MHz bus one, like it seemed to be) doesn't support PAE either. (No Xen on them, therefore.) < 1258322471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no relevant upgrade around then) < 1258322478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quality did go down with Lenovo, though. < 1258322485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with widescreen... < 1258322487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(T60 was okay) < 1258322488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, xen needs PAE? < 1258322496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(T61 too apart from being widescreen) < 1258322499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the Txxx series? < 1258322500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah... < 1258322522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Eh, who uses Xen on a laptop :P < 1258322524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what about a new good laptop? would that be a mac? < 1258322540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There... aren't any, really. < 1258322554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MacBook Pro is superb if you want Mac OS X, of course. < 1258322585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, still using that trackball. < 1258322598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1258322608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258322619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do like the trackpoint btw. much easier to use than the trackpad for me. < 1258322621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1258322623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touchpad* < 1258322630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trackpad. < 1258322636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you have multi-touch stuff. < 1258322643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right; or more specifically, you need to use either a PAE or a non-PAE build of Xen, and they dropped support of the non-PAE version quite a while ago. < 1258322654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I used to, until they dropped the support of it. :p < 1258322657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He never said anything about Xen < 1258322663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I tried on a "you can't replace the battery" macbook recently that someone else at uni had < 1258322677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work too well for me. might take time getting used to < 1258322680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: MacBook or MacBook Pro? < 1258322689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Pro, the non-replacable MacBook is new. < 1258322690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unibody thing < 1258322702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was like a month ago or so < 1258322703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unibody MacBook or Unibody MacBook Pro, then. < 1258322714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13" unibody MacBook Pro = unibody MacBook < 1258322719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically identical when it switched over < 1258322719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't know if it was pro or non-pro < 1258322727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 15" or so sounds about right? < 1258322733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Pro < 1258322733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure exactly < 1258322738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably < 1258322743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it have insanely high resolution? If so then 17" :P < 1258322763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, higher than most but not insanely so < 1258322773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't they recently put out a small variant of the Pro? I guess it was that 13" thing. < 1258322782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly lower or around the same as my thinkpad I would say < 1258322788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a rouge estimate < 1258322803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sort of eyeballing it as a suitable replacement for the 12" iBook if it happened to break; hopefully it'll still hold for a while, though. < 1258322842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17" is 1920x1200 < 1258322889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and a 17" is quite a bit larger < 1258322892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have noticed < 1258323130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, are they doing 1920x1200 in laptops already? Funky. < 1258323269 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258323307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: for ages < 1258323313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a February 2000 slideshow, Rob Pike noted: "…although Alef was a fruitful language, it proved too difficult to maintain a variant language across multiple architectures, so we took what we learned from it and built the thread library for C." < 1258323325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alef could return multiple values as well :P < 1258323406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Actually Google will probably rename it Issue9 , as a reference the issue number nine raised by McCabe on the issue tracker of Google Go Programming Language. This is at least what a lot of people want to believe !" < 1258323406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A world in which people whining on a bug tracker make Google do something < 1258323436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit are trying really hard to get Google to rename it Issue 9 < 1258323441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure if anyone else cares < 1258323453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proggit has gone down the shitter, has been down it for ages. < 1258323462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue 9 is a shit name anyway < 1258323475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when is it officially a "Google" project instead of something based on 20% time? < 1258323477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a good rule of thumb is if anyone calls google the creator of go they don't know shit about it < 1258323484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It is a Google project, I believe < 1258323493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoWei-GAPo < 1258323500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Go Programming Language < 1258323501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[google logo]" < 1258323504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by GoogleDevelopers < 1258323507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Google Code Channel < 1258323523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they work at Google. < 1258323546 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hay guys have you hard about this kool new language called Go < 1258323563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: lawl < 1258323571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: the troll door → < 1258323616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, seriously. Using the Google logo, calling themselves GoogleDevelopers, and being able to get something on the Google Code Channel proves only that they work at Google. :-P < 1258323634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what is a Google project is ill-defined anyway < 1258323675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of their work at Google, Google have put material about it with a Google logo on their YouTube account, AND < 1258323685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here at Google, we believe programming should be fast, productive, and most importantly, fun. That's why we're excited to open source an experimental new language called Go. < 1258323687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/11/hey-ho-lets-go.html < 1258323696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rest my case. < 1258323712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that the term "Google project" includes 20% stuff. < 1258323759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one more bit of "evidence": the source files have copyright notices for "Copyright 2009 The Go Authors"; and the AUTHORS file in the root has as its first line "Google Inc." < 1258323775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: By Robert Griesemer, Rob Pike, Ken Thompson, Ian Taylor, Russ Cox, Jini Kim and Adam Langley - The Go Team < 1258323790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also pretty sure it doesn't matter -- if it turns out to be of any use, Google will be using it and supporting it quite well. < 1258323797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kinda what they do, after all. < 1258323797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "We" < 1258323802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the Google open source blog < 1258323809 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: We, the Go team. < 1258323809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That too. < 1258323818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: YES NOT ALL OF GOOGLE INC WORK ON PROJECTS < 1258323821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is < 1258323827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No google project has all of google working on it < 1258323830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "This is the official list of Go authors for copyright purposes" -- "Google Inc."; the "Inc." there makes it sound all official. < 1258323847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know whether Google typically wants copyright for 20% projects. < 1258323854 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, then I'll take that as evidence. < 1258323866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it's announced on the google open source blog, lists Google Inc. as an author in AUTHORS, has a promo about it on the Google code youtube channel with the Google logo below "The Go Programming Language"... < 1258323871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yeah, it's a Google project. < 1258323876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google works in teams all the time, you know. < 1258323911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Except arguably the project of "making money for Google". < 1258323939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You do realise that an awful lot of Google projects aren't profitable? < 1258323941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance. Google Code < 1258323947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ads, no fees, nothing < 1258323973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Microsoft Research's main purpose is to generate goodwill < 1258323984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe most of Google is for the same purpose? < 1258323992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "Arguably". < 1258324073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Research's main purpose is to research for Microsoft. < 1258324121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know that either; the references seem to be more about how you're free to focus on whatever you find interesting, not on who will get the profits. I guess they might have an "it's still work, even if you self decide what you do" convention. < 1258324122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it just so happens that research generates goodwill is a nice side effect, as far as Microsoft is concerned. < 1258324188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc being static will be fun < 1258324195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :500M hello-world < 1258324224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC only supports static linking ATM. < 1258324225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? GHC is static. (As far as I understand what you mean by "being static".) < 1258324229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Research's main purpose is to "enhance the user experience on computing devices, reduce the cost of writing and maintaining software, and invent novel computing technologies -- [and] to advance the field of computer science". It says right that on their web page, no need to speculate or anything. < 1258324236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GHC resulting executables are static? < 1258324240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on libc and the like? < 1258324242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt. < 1258324251 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not libc. < 1258324260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mostly I doubt because I've run ldd on ghc-produced executables and seen tons of dependencies.) < 1258324260 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the Haskell libs. < 1258324263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. No, it dynamically links against C libraries. < 1258324265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, duh. < 1258324267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(normally) < 1258324276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses date() on ALL programs < 1258324278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And crazy shit like that < 1258324282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that adding static C libs will make it much bigger. < 1258324290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay then. < 1258324292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20M hello-world < 1258324315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the normal size, something like 1M? < 1258324322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1258324337 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe 2M, then. < 1258324388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :624K. < 1258324405 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe 1.5M, then. < 1258324409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. That hello.hs does more than "Hello, world!"... < 1258324421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1258324427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :592K. XD < 1258324434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One need only run ./hello +RTS --help. < 1258324435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't get it to statically link, though. < 1258324484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Massive linker errors from a lack of static pthreads. < 1258324485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What error? < 1258324488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1258324499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, ghc depends on pthreads ALWAYS. < 1258324502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be *fun*. < 1258324513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why pthreads < 1258324525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The garbage collector can run in parallel. < 1258324528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look it up with my telepathy. < 1258324530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, try /usr/lib/libpthread.a ? < 1258324531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what pikhq said. < 1258324539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lack of static pthreads, he said. < 1258324546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I have it on my gentoo < 1258324549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gcc doesn't work" "try /usr/bin/gcc" < 1258324556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant++ < 1258324568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "he uses gentoo, thus it should exist" < 1258324572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Incidentally, tcc or pcc: which do you think will have more compatibility < 1258324581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if it doesn't exist: how the hell did you manage that < 1258324582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "I don't have any non-stock Gentoo packages installed; I am confident in my assertion" < 1258324603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure why it's not linking against it. < 1258324607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, .... "I checked with qfile it came from libc" < 1258324611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does exist, and I'm passing -lpthread to ghc. < 1258324612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about that one? < 1258324616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys-libs/glibc (/usr/lib64/libpthread.a) < 1258324619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... Not happening. < 1258324620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just add /usr/lib/libpthread.a to it < 1258324627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OH! < 1258324635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh oh oh < 1258324637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do this: < 1258324644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*waits* < 1258324652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-static -optl-static -optl-pthread < 1258324662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optl? < 1258324665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option linker < 1258324669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1258324681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work < 1258324690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does < 1258324693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a common ghc pitfall < 1258324697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5M. < 1258324702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nailed it. < 1258324733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip -s gets it down to 1.2M. < 1258324749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upx gets it down to 416K. < 1258324761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/b3wo6 < 1258324763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, imgur crap < 1258324763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/b3wo6.png < 1258324791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upx --brute gets it down to 408K. < 1258324798 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--ultra-brute? < 1258324803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.google.com/images?q=google%20books%20fingers < 1258324810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(May've been equivalent to --brute on Linux, I forget) < 1258324815 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, i read reddit too < 1258324827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_, ? < 1258324843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation: Stop linking things linked anywhere else < 1258324852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://images.google.com/images?q=google%20books%20fingers <-- what the hell happened? And what is that on the fingers < 1258324862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the point of that image < 1258324870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People pressed scan before moving their fingers away, and finger condoms! < 1258324878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's vaguely amusing? < 1258324885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... why finger condomes? < 1258324887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say so < 1258324889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try it with uclibc, but I don't have a uclibc toolchain handy. < 1258324895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *condoms < 1258324896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: WHO KNOWS < 1258324905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :408K with --ultra-brute. < 1258324906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the scanning procedure involves finger sex. < 1258324913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there's a gentoo package for it < 1258324913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1258324926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not really. < 1258324942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I did try crossdev for it in the past; didn't exactly work) < 1258324976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello.o is 4K. < 1258324987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, nearly 1.2M of that is libraries... < 1258324998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's impressive, but scary. < 1258325002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try ldd on a dynamically linked one < 1258325009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, pretty useless functions! < 1258325011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sparkle. < 1258325042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw, did you see http://sprunge.us/JXMf? < 1258325044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libm, libgmp, libdl, librt, libc, ld-linux-x86_64.so.2, and libpthread. < 1258325052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not strip useless functions? < 1258325054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paul Graham's closure-test in Go, except s/number/fixed-size int/ < 1258325058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ghc runtime uses them < 1258325061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're not useless. < 1258325063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ldd -whateveryouneedforfunctions < 1258325065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258325068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses date(), for instance < 1258325077 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes date() < 1258325080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (I tried to do numbers but couldn't find a suitable number interface; I could have done bignums though) < 1258325084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why does it need date()? < 1258325090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you could potentially optimise away the GC in simple programs < 1258325095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in THEORY < 1258325110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably pointless in practise) < 1258325115 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I dunno, why not? < 1258325130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Does God exist?" "I dunno, why not?" < 1258325152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: ldd -whateveryouneedforfunctions <-- nm -D? < 1258325155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Arbitrary statement" "What you just said" / my point proven < 1258325163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd doesn't list used functions afaik < 1258325173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :121 different functions, according to nm -D... < 1258325178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, incidentally, I found that virus on my computer < 1258325179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, nm is the one < 1258325181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What /is/ date() anyway? I see no manpage for it. < 1258325181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Word macro virus < 1258325184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was in the Agora archives < 1258325191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh < 1258325196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, it was gettimeofday() < 1258325199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1258325200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1258325200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, agora accepts word files? < 1258325205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was in an attachment to a message < 1258325208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :containing part of a thesis < 1258325222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and why? < 1258325228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: Oh, it was gettimeofday() <-- not strange. duh < 1258325237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange for hello world < 1258325238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about random seed for example < 1258325238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So timing, which the RTS does. < 1258325247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or yes timing for GC and what not < 1258325261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur mom < 1258325262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1258325269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could just say "strange for hello world to use a GC"... < 1258325307 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77-100-194-169.cable.ubr04.pres.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1258325364 0 :Rugxulo!n=chatzill@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258325427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that the dynamic libraries that hello.hs uses adds up to 2.7M... < 1258325454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION responds to http://hoisie.com/post/my_thoughts_on_the_go_programming_language to vent < 1258325466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The environment variables for building go are weird. $GOROOT points to the source, and why do you actually need to set $GOARCH and $GOOS? It's easy to detect that." < 1258325466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$GOROOT points to the TREE. Cross-compiling. < 1258325490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A reasonable default is that you're not cross-compiling. < 1258325503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the whole thing is based around it. < 1258325528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still thinks that 64-bit is heavily overrated ... < 1258325549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Go uses a custom, funky build system. Most linux programs are compiled through autoconf and make. The build system has quirks, like if the $GOBIN directory isn't added to your path, it won't install." It's not funky, it's how make should be used. < 1258325550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The build script automatically installs go. But you have to create the installation directory manually." Your $GOBIN should exist. < 1258325550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The binary naming scheme is weird. For i386 you have the following program names:" It's not weird, you're just not used to it. "8c - no idea what it does" Perhaps you should have looked it up, takes two clicks on the website. < 1258325550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you have a different architecture, these binaries will be named differently (6a, 6g, 6l, 6c for amd64). I couldn't find out why they use this seemingly arbitrary naming convention." Plan 9 toolchain, for trivial cross-compiling. < 1258325551 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those "Language Issues" are rather random. < 1258325554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Compiling and running a go program takes three steps (it would be nice if it < 1258325556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just one):" Python is that way. < 1258325558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phew, end of flood. < 1258325561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: The principle advantage is having twice the registers. < 1258325573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aargh, that was just the first section. < 1258325576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sometimes semicolons are needed, and sometimes they're not." Semicolons are separators, not terminators. The end. < 1258325578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is absurdly register-starved. < 1258325582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But you can use them to separate a statement and the end.) < 1258325588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The languages require braces for most control expressions, even if they only contain one inner expression." Good practice. < 1258325593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There isn't an exception mechanism" Feature. < 1258325595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: principal* < 1258325601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The build script automatically installs go. But you have to create the installation directory manually." Your $GOBIN should exist. <-- unusual < 1258325602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ambiguous assignment. The following are identical:" Ambiguous because there's more than one way? < 1258325605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's declaration. < 1258325617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would be annoyed if build system didn't create directories as needed < 1258325619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A compilation error happens when a variable is declared and not used. I'm not a huge fan of this." It's enforcing conciseness and non-laziness. There are no warnings. < 1258325628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shrug, it's a very minor issue < 1258325632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If "a := 1" and "var a = 1" don't differ that's a bit weird. < 1258325638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, an annoying one < 1258325646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and in $PATH? < 1258325649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: := is just shorthand < 1258325650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of crap is that < 1258325661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GOBIN should be ~/bin or /usr/local/bin or whatever < 1258325667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I symlink binaries from ~/local/foo/bin to ~/bin as needed < 1258325669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just where it puts binaries of go tools and go-using pprograms < 1258325671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1258325681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing every program coded in Go into a Go-specific location is madness. < 1258325682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I refuse to have ~/local/foo/bin in baoth < 1258325683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Aye, and I think that's a bit strange given that "var" isn't that long either. :-P < 1258325685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in path* < 1258325688 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, 64-bit is more than PAE. For a start: PAE is limited at 64 GB iirc. 64-bit has a higher limit. < 1258325691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Point it to ~/local/bin. < 1258325698 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody is coming even close to reaching 64 GB yet (besides IBM) < 1258325700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no such thing < 1258325701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's what you're meant to do. < 1258325706 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to be a bit leery of fairly different syntaxes for the exact same thing. < 1258325710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and. that is for Go itself I assume < 1258325710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop bitching, nobody cares < 1258325713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1258325714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for both. < 1258325722 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the main problem with PAE (and 64-bit) is drivers < 1258325724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the Go programs should be able to run from build dir surely < 1258325726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It installs the compilers, tools etc and programs written in go install to $GOBIN. < 1258325731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: ... Actually, nobody is coming close to *justifying* that on a normal system. < 1258325733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't want to install every time I debug a program < 1258325740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, they do. < 1258325741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pure madness < 1258325742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your point? < 1258325742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big difference. < 1258325762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Weird debug statements. This happened when I had an out-of-bounds error." Translation: Oh god, it gives a stack trace and the values of registers. Kill me now. < 1258325764 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Yes, but only scientists use more than 4 GiB per process and they deserve to DIE IN A FIRE BECAUSE THEY USE HERETIC WITCHCRAFT. < 1258325766 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1258325769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aand my responses are over < 1258325770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I want to be able to install built programs anywhere. Like I compile a C program, doesn't need to go into ~/local/llvm/bin < 1258325777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because I used llvm-gcc < 1258325781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (1) Stop fucking bitching (2) make GOBIN=... install < 1258325793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what sort of argument is this < 1258325801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) You. Set. GOBIN. To. A. Non. Go. Specific. Directory. That. Is. The. Whole. Point. < 1258325815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I install every app in a specific prefix. Always. < 1258325817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :period. < 1258325826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I'm not about to install Go anyway < 1258325827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go use GoboLinux, whiner. < 1258325832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not until I need it < 1258325838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I considered that < 1258325842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody gives a shit about your personal conventions because nobody else uses them and you're using YOUR chosen conventions to complain about Go, which is an invalid argument. < 1258325848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not interested. < 1258325860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "all other build systems work with this" < 1258325867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still chose it. < 1258325870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I don't have ~/bin in PATH < 1258325874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, I'm not interested. Do not expect any further responses.. < 1258325877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*responses. < 1258325877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have /bin /usr/bin in PATH < 1258325901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh the usual "ehird being irritated at me being right mode" < 1258325905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a nice evening < 1258325912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts ehird on ignore < 1258325932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, you both fail at conversation so hard that it's not even funny any more. < 1258325937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, "You're only not talking to me because I'm right! I'm going to ignore YOU!" — the age old trolling technique. < 1258325944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Objection: I don't bother engaging in conversation with AnMaster. < 1258325949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just rile him up. < 1258325959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't fail at it really. Seems ehird did though < 1258325969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you both do. < 1258325974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but yes it it hard to talk to him since he refuses to even consider my arguments < 1258325975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an unexpected response. I sure am sure that that'll change AnMaster's mind. < 1258325987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm welcome to engage in conversation with anyone who isn't a blathering idiot. < 1258325995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's hard to do that in here because AnMaster always pipes up. < 1258326005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yeah, see, that attitude is part of the failure. :-P < 1258326015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hey, I tried with AnMaster, I really did. < 1258326030 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Being able to assume SSE support is also nice. < 1258326035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the issue with such a build system is that it breaks standard conventions of what should work on *nix < 1258326050 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard to run CPUID, besides ... P4 had SSE2 long before AMD (which is in heavy decline thanks to Core2Duo improvements) < 1258326065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another classic troll technique... somebody makes a comment about the war and the troll tries to force the issue on the commentator. < 1258326066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, everything is supposed to work when installed to a prefix, possibly needing passing a rpath argument, but most often not < 1258326077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Congrats at misunderstanding the entire point of that sentence. < 1258326079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if this is static binaries? wouldn't need it < 1258326110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I dislike fat binaries that cpuid-switch over 8 different optimization levels. :-P < 1258326119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but ehird seems to refuse to see this. I have to declare him a lost cause sadly < 1258326121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: You don't have to run CPUID, you just build everything with SSE support. < 1258326127 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to separate builds for every microarchitecture?? < 1258326136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, then 686 is not the baseline < 1258326152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: are you going to tell AnMaster to stop continuing his argument with me to you? I'm pretty sure he's not going to stop < 1258326169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter. < 1258326169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, of course you don't need to declare 686 the baseline < 1258326175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was what ehird wanted iirc < 1258326177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1258326213 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway i definitely want quake ii to run, which is a "yikes" case of a libc5, egcs-compiled 32-bit binary < 1258326217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what doesn't matter? ehird being stupid about Go? If so agreed. It would be pointless to continue talking about it. *yawn* < 1258326217 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem there? < 1258326227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: what isn't the problem is easier to answer? < 1258326233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i told you so < 1258326234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1258326241 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Quake II is open sourced now, right? just recompile it < 1258326253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only said quake ii to give an example of a pathological case that i want to work < 1258326254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh good point < 1258326281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AnMaster goes into "start agreeing with everyone who says anything that even remotely contradicts what I say" mode :-/ < 1258326310 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was Quake 2 released, late 90s? (Quake 1 was 1996) < 1258326313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, of course it won't work for all possible programs. In case you for some reason want to run old old binary code < 1258326320 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, it would have to use ECGS since nothing else existed < 1258326325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1258326326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc existed < 1258326334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what about gcc? < 1258326338 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean GCC 2.95 (which is what EGCS became) just barely came out in 1999 < 1258326350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, EGCS was based on gcc < 1258326351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a fork < 1258326354 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1258326355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that re-merged again < 1258326359 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quake 1 used GCC 2.7.2 < 1258326364 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally < 1258326365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, so GCC would have existed too < 1258326373 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC existed but wasn't acceptable < 1258326373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as EGCS < 1258326392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that's different. I agree yes. But that wasn't what you said to begin with < 1258326393 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence the fork < 1258326436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think Quake 1 used such heavy FPU assembly? because GCC 2.7.2 couldn't optimize worth a damn for anything besides 386 or 486 < 1258326457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, I might lose connection, going to reset adsl modem (it is acting strangely) < 1258326479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC isn't the only compiler family in the world, though; I'm a bit surprised that id has used gcc there, in fact. < 1258326480 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, better code optimisation base. a generic 686 target can't assume any sort of vector registers like MMX or SSE (like pikhq said) < 1258326482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also because it was a game that pushed the limits of the hardware... and they tend to need some assembly to run nicely. < 1258326500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm talking about the linux build < 1258326510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't assume anything with 686, not even FPU < 1258326517 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you stick to Intel and AMD only < 1258326546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unless you stick to everything" < 1258326548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a reasonable sticking-to, these days. < 1258326550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything - epsilon < 1258326551 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they used GCC in order to cross compile from Alphas (Quake) < 1258326566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay for ipv6 tunnel, not disconnecting that way < 1258326573 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they also wanted a compiler free to redistribute for modifying Quake, was going to use DJGPP but at the last minute wrote their own subset < 1258326613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, wait, doesn't DJGPP use gcc or something iirc? < 1258326623 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, GCC < 1258326635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "was going to use DJGPP but at the last minute wrote their own subset"? < 1258326640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1258326647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subset of DJGPP < 1258326648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1258326659 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they compiled for DOS with DJGPP, which is what they distributed shareware/commercially < 1258326668 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, their own QCC, Quake C compiler < 1258326680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, they wrote a whole C compiler? < 1258326690 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a real compiler, just a wimpy hack < 1258326695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, why < 1258326699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1258326708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/history.html mentions Quake; obviously they're proud of it. < 1258326710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they used a modified LCC in some later versions < 1258326712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and what did that compiler do? < 1258326720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1258326722 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile mods < 1258326723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what didn't it do < 1258326725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1258326726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ah < 1258326805 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they each shared a developer, I think < 1258326812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dir.filewatcher.com/d/FreeBSD/4.6-release/i386/qcc-1.01.tgz.109841.html -- "This is the last major component of the quake utilities to be released. To be honest, I have been a little reticent to release this because most of the actual qc code is basically rather embarassing crap. The time never became available to even give it a good top to bottom going over. I never spent any quality engineering time on my parts, American wrote a lot of qc code, and e < 1258326812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ven Romero has a bit of work in there. It is a mess. If you look through the code and occasionally think "This is stupid!", you are probably right..." < 1258326865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds pretty horrible if you read the next couple of paragraphs too. < 1258326872 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recompiled Quake 1 like two days ago, works under DOSBox < 1258326959 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used GCC 2.95.3 (ahem, EGCS) and BinUtils 2.16.1, though < 1258326963 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not old 2.7.2 (ugh) < 1258326997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=22910 < 1258327004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, reddit are arguing about whether Go or Algol 68 is better < 1258327033 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1258327060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://leileilol.mancubus.net/crap/egake.png < 1258327061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty < 1258327070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, a non eso-language that allows spaces in identifiers, without needing to quote them, is a brilliant concept < 1258327092 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he made more progress since that ;-) < 1258327167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258327171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://icculus.org/~chunky/ut/aaut/ < 1258327172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glorious < 1258327189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I used GCC 2.95.3 (ahem, EGCS) and BinUtils 2.16.1, though <-- anything wrong with newer versions? < 1258327216 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt it, but I just like 2.95.3 in some ways (faster compiles, good enough, etc.) < 1258327236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, which is the newest one that would work? < 1258327248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a hard time believing that 4.4 would work for example < 1258327253 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to say it's my "pet", but I did cram DJGPP 2.03p2, BinUtils 2.16.1, GCC 2.95.3 onto one floppy (.7z compressed) with decoder < 1258327266 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't try anything newer, esp. since DOSBox is a glorified 486 DX2 anyways :-/ < 1258327279 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming your host cpu is fast enough, e.g. 1 Ghz) < 1258327297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I assume 2 GHz or more these days < 1258327306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and what about dosemu? < 1258327315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it better than dosbox iirc? < 1258327323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU is good, obviously faster, but I'm not on Linux now ;-) < 1258327332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it needs linux? heh < 1258327343 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU? yes DOSBox? no < 1258327344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why obviously faster? < 1258327351 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V86 mode < 1258327351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtualisation < 1258327358 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox can run on PPC, even < 1258327361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or have the underlinings from Wikipedia's ALGOL 68 article turned into bold type? Even while the text is all "In the examples above you will observe underlined words"? < 1258327387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, right. vm86 is kind of deprecated. I guess dosemu is the only user. < 1258327395 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox comes with its own built-in DOS "OS" subset, DOSEMU needs something else (e.g. FreeDOS, MS-DOS, DR-DOS) < 1258327406 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE? (dunno, really) < 1258327436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, pretty sure that I got dosemu working under 64-bit? < 1258327436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, even without V86, under x86-64 they claim DOSEMU can emulate DJGPP apps "natively" < 1258327449 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it works, just the 16-bit stuff is fully emulated < 1258327451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* app-emulation/dosemu < 1258327451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Available versions: 1.4.0 ~1.4.0.1 ~1.4.1_pre20091009 {X alsa debug gpm sndfile svga} < 1258327451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bolding here, even < 1258327452 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(slow) < 1258327452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stable < 1258327465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, fast enough? < 1258327470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for old dos apps I mean < 1258327474 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1258327511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, then no issue I guess. If my cpu can emulate a N64 at decent speed (good gpu needed too) I fail to see how a old dos emulator could require more < 1258327526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, direct link to it? I'm lazy < 1258327535 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I'm just saying, DOSBox ain't that fast < 1258327544 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not multithreaded, for instance, and it's written in C++ (heh) < 1258327549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosbox is sloooooooow < 1258327557 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"quit" < 1258327559 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N64 wasn't that fast either, actually < 1258327565 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, faster than a 486, but not 10x or anything < 1258327569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_68 < 1258327572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, dosemu on x86-64 was fast enough < 1258327580 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, thanks to V86 ;-) < 1258327584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, read again < 1258327587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, x86-64 < 1258327589 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1258327592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no vm86 supported < 1258327595 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, 32-bit is "native speed" they claim < 1258327605 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 16-bit stuff that is slower than normal < 1258327613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I think I was running some olf freedos apps < 1258327615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1258327638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and it was still faster than an original 486 I bet < 1258327656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it went past on screen too fast < 1258327658 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't say without a benchmark to prove it < 1258327665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bad app, not adjusting for CPU speed) < 1258327668 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, 486 is slow anyway you look at it ;-) < 1258327671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I don't have it installed any more < 1258327679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a year ago at least < 1258327679 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I just assumed that much :-) < 1258327699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and DOSEMU does support some kind of "throttle" I think < 1258327708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is it just me, or have the underlinings from Wikipedia's ALGOL 68 article turned into bold type? Even while the text is all "In the examples above you will observe underlined words"? <-- not just you < 1258327711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see bold too < 1258327729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny. Underlined is what was in the only ALGOL 68 book I've read. < 1258327761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1258327785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is totally unformatted for me. < 1258327798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But editing it shows bolding. < 1258327803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW QUEER THIS LIFE WE LEAD < 1258327804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well the page uses ''' ''' in it. so it would have to be bold < 1258327816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe some vandal? < 1258327828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems b inside pre is being ignored < 1258327831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vandal? Come on. < 1258327860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bold is "right" in the sense that it's not about the exact typeface. It's just that the text refers to underlining in at least one place. < 1258327869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this one is underlined http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ALGOL_68&oldid=229234946 < 1258327896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|int| a real int = 3 ; < 1258327911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|proc| sieve = (|list| l) |list|: < 1258327934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ALGOL_68&diff=251913502&oldid=250851666 < 1258327936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1258327946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1258328039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1258328481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU works on most architectures -- it just emulates when it can't run code directly. < 1258328499 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you've actually used it elsewhere? < 1258328534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: No, because I don't have non-x86 systems. < 1258328544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just know it has a full x86 emulator shoved in there. < 1258328559 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't honestly know if it would work, I don't think it even works on NetBSD or FreeBSD anymore < 1258328566 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't tried, so ... < 1258328578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm sure it at least *can* run on FreeBSD. < 1258328591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it may need to use the Linux emulation feature. < 1258328595 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must've used to (and I know NetBSD ran it at some point) < 1258328722 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "problem" with DOSEMU is that it's "multiverse" for some unknown reason < 1258328823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody wants to maintain it < 1258328825 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1258328887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Dude, Go is the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen touted as a real programming language. They took D's syntax and stuck some concurrency bits from Erlang in it. Big deal. I bet the concurrency doesn't work right, because it never does in imperative languages. < 1258328887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also not a low level language just because it runs fast; that whole idea is a C++ oriented lie. OCaML is as fast as they come; I guarantee it's faster in real life than this piece of crap, and it's GCed as well. And OCaML has REAL exception handling; far better than virtually any other language, other than Lisp. < 1258328887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should take Ken out back and shoot him in the back of the head for foisting that piece of crap on humanity. At least think about designing a language for longer than a few hours before showing it to people. The fact that it's mostly just some Yacc spooge ... jesus, what unutterable crap. Google + celebrity = fail.]] < 1258328889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: expressing your opinion I see! < 1258328910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, goyacc includes an example that's a full program written in yacc; a rarity nowadays < 1258328936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've been developing my own programming language for 6 months, and Go's feature list is so short it makes me cry." ;; consider calling your language "D" < 1258328953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the "problem" with DOSEMU is that it's "multiverse" for some unknown reason <-- multiverse what? < 1258328954 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1258328957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu? < 1258328959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu < 1258328962 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repository < 1258328979 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a maintainer (AFAICT), but I guess it's not updated frequently enough?? < 1258328980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, in ubuntu? well who cares? you could get the source yourself? < 1258328988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did :-) < 1258329001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't even have Linux installs (just liveCDs and one USB) ;-) < 1258329062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Kragen Sitaker's response to that "so short it makes me cry" comment: [[You could have written this comment in 1975, replacing "Go" with "C", if the language you were working on was PL/1. Except that Reddit didn't exist yet.]]) < 1258329065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, why would I care? < 1258329078 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you live? :-P < 1258329086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ? < 1258329087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"why would I care?" — rich from AnMaster who often goes onto his personal preferences when talking < 1258329088 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? ;-) < 1258329120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you seems to be lost in the age of dos to me < 1258329143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, are you using it seriously or just for old nostalgia? < 1258329164 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't see the point of reinventing everything ten times over or discarding stuff that works < 1258329180 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for fun, I don't get paid for it or anything < 1258329188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I think you might have skipped some logical steps there < 1258329201 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1258329201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is "for old games" or "for porting esolangs to it" or similar. Sure < 1258329256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, to me DOS doesn't really work any more. sure when it was the best you had.... < 1258329323 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also don't see the beauty in the simplicity of Befunge93 < 1258329334 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mean 98 is bad, just 93 is still good for something < 1258329336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I see that it isn't TC. < 1258329342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure if it was TC then yes < 1258329389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ulimited +x and +y added on 93 (and with 98-style wrapping to make that actually work) would be fine < 1258329395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit irritating to code in < 1258329404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and it is much more fun to write a 98 interpreter than a 93 interpreter < 1258329408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 93 one is trivial < 1258329414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 98 one, not so