00:43:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 00:58:18 -!- Oranjer has joined. 00:58:25 yay 00:58:52 Hi Oranjer. 00:59:42 Have you made any esolangs before, or do you just use them? 01:01:14 I do not do neither 01:01:32 I mean, I've yet to use 'em, and I haven't made any 01:01:38 Ah. 01:01:48 but! you have google wave, right? 01:01:52 Yes. 01:01:55 yay! 01:01:59 I have it too! 01:01:59 ? 01:02:02 Ah. 01:02:08 I'm oranjer, of course 01:02:25 (As for me, I've made http://esolangs.org/wiki/HQ9_2D HQ9+2D) 01:03:04 it say 01:03:16 it says there's no text on it (hur hur hur) 01:03:26 ... 01:03:43 I dunno what's up 01:04:17 hey! can you send me the link using google wave? 01:04:30 Sure. 01:04:43 oranjer@googlewave.com!!!! 01:04:45 yay 01:05:51 Sent/ 01:05:53 *Sent. 01:06:28 okay 01:06:55 I...what? 01:07:12 is the program usable? for making things? 01:07:55 Have you ever heard of HQ9+? 01:08:11 nope 01:08:31 It's a joke language 01:08:37 i see 01:08:40 Which is like HQ9+2D 01:08:52 except without ><^ or v 01:08:56 so it just goes east forever 01:09:12 ah, okay 01:12:35 so, what's up? 01:13:14 Well, I just earlier today signed up for the wiki 01:13:46 yay! 01:14:09 ? 01:14:23 well, now you can like, do stuff, I guess 01:14:29 and freedom of action is goood! yay 01:16:17 ...you seem a lot less conservative than I had originally, rather offensively, assumed. 01:16:26 what are you doing now? 01:16:35 conservative? 01:16:40 whuuuut 01:17:14 ? 01:17:18 hell, I'm the one who got into arguments with conservatives at my school 01:17:34 The assumption was based entirely on your location. 01:17:36 I was like, the spokesperson for anti-conservativism 01:17:38 oh, ha 01:18:55 I dunno, I do see atheist bumperstickers and whatnot from time to time here 01:19:38 religion != politics, for one thing. Although atheists are generally liberal or libertarian. 01:21:00 But most importantly, "from time to time", as opposed to "often". 01:21:01 ah, but aren't libertarians some form of conservatism? :o 01:21:13 well, although I once saw a Darwin fish in Texas (awesome), but I meant it as... 01:21:45 that in a conservative place, such blatant non-christian stuff would be terrorized and whatnot 01:22:19 well, madbr, it's more like two seperate dimensions 01:22:23 yeah 01:22:29 economic and individual freedom 01:22:30 economic freedom, and social freedom 01:22:32 haha 01:23:07 (It's really three dimensions, though individual and social are closely tied.) 01:23:11 Liberalism has low economic but high individual/social 01:23:28 Conservatism has high economic but low individual/social 01:23:42 Libertarianism has high both 01:23:50 Statism 01:23:56 and authoritarianism has low both 01:24:01 ouchies 01:24:21 of course, me ol' gover' teacher gave us another interpro 01:24:26 When you split individual and social you get 9 different ideas 01:24:39 three facets: order, freedom, and equality 01:24:59 you can only choose two, at the expense of the third one 01:25:10 Conservatives generally pick order and freedom, at the expense of equality 01:25:28 liberals generally pick freedom and equality, at the expense of order 01:25:57 And if you pick order and equality at the expense of freedom? 01:26:05 and authoritarians generally pick order and equality over freedom 01:26:13 ha 01:26:15 They don't care about equality... 01:26:41 Communism did, before it went total-postal 01:26:54 Yeah, but they aren't authoritarian. 01:27:01 Also, a more inclusive way to define it based on those facets: 01:27:12 :O 01:27:24 (also, what were those 9 ideas you mentioned?) 01:27:41 (I don't have names for them. They're just combinations of high/low.) 01:27:49 ah, okay 01:27:59 Each starts at 0, which is average. 01:28:07 You have 1 point. 01:28:07 the facets? 01:28:10 Yeah. 01:28:12 okay 01:28:25 You can use that point to increase any of them by 1. 01:28:35 You can decrease any of them by 1 to gain another point. 01:29:20 cool, cool 01:29:29 although, there would have to be limits 01:29:36 Thus centrism just doesn't spend the point in the first place 01:29:41 defined by nature, and what not 01:29:51 wouldn't centrism spend it on order? 01:30:02 Nah, that would be... um... order-ism. 01:30:26 hey! let's use this stuff in a nomic! 01:30:49 Maybe. We'd need a good initial ruleset incorporating them. 01:31:05 yay! 01:31:51 of course, as I was telling yuri, a system requires a goal to be worthwhile, and that most countries (and nomics, and other human organos) don't have any goals above "survive" 01:32:01 Name idea: Nationomic 01:32:32 so I'm saying that in the future, if I'm involved in a nomic (or anything else), I shall always make an early step to be the defining of a goal 01:32:44 so, what is the goal of our suggested nomic? 01:32:50 Hmmm. 01:32:57 Well, it could be unwinnable. 01:33:22 Or we could have some sort of United Nations-like entity 01:33:32 and although there is no official "winning" 01:33:58 you can gain great power by becoming leader of the UN 01:34:00 also 01:34:05 we should talk about this in ##nomic 01:34:09 indeed 01:34:13 as it has drifted quite far from the topic of esolangs. 01:34:16 what network is that? 01:34:34 (remember, unfamiliar computer here) 01:34:54 Same one as you're on. 01:34:57 okay 01:34:58 hey! 01:35:03 ? 01:35:05 yuri wants to talk about it also 01:35:11 sure we can't do it in google wave? 01:35:11 Yup. 01:35:17 Sure, why not? 01:37:27 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:37:33 hmm 01:37:48 what would be a good cpu design for some amateur project? 01:39:14 the game of life 01:39:16 ?? 01:39:19 what do you mean? 01:39:43 MISC 01:39:54 http://esolangs.org/wiki/MISC 01:45:36 that doesn't look particularly programmable 01:45:55 it could be a more standard risc although those are boring 01:49:11 -!- Oranjer has quit ("Java user signed off"). 01:52:44 -!- Oranjer has joined. 01:55:47 If I wanted to program MISC, I would make a MIPS->MISC compiler. 02:20:59 -!- Oranjer has quit ("Java user signed off"). 03:45:12 * Sgeo got yellwed at for saying wtf 03:45:20 When I meant to type wtg 03:45:24 But this was repeated 03:46:55 * Sgeo is addicted to AWBingo 03:51:50 WTG? 04:01:14 What The GOD?! 04:01:35 ...ah. 04:01:45 That makes perfect sense. 04:04:52 Way to go 04:05:15 I'm in a bingo place 04:08:02 Does it please you to believe you are in a bingo place? 04:08:52 lol 04:09:07 agh 04:09:18 I accidentally mixed code for my IRC bot and my ELIZA clone 04:18:02 ME: The world is explode. ELIZA: What does that suggest to you? 04:19:15 ME: I WILL KILL YOU ELIZA! ELIZA: Perhaps in your fantasies we will kill each other. 04:22:16 * Darth_Cliche tries to make ELIZAs talk to each other 04:22:39 ELIZA: Why are you concerned over my problem? 04:22:58 OTHER ELIZA: Your problem ? 04:26:50 So two people in AW use Base64 to swear in front of people who don't approve of swearing where they're doing it 04:26:57 I'm threatening to reveal what language they're using 04:31:21 And one of them talked about f***ing one of the other people there, so 04:34:39 So? 04:36:12 It's a G rated area, and the owners of the place already ejected someone for saying wtf 04:37:51 ... 04:38:00 WTF! 04:40:53 OMG WTF LOLOLOL 04:41:08 * Darth_Cliche creates chatbot representing typical 12-year-old 04:45:55 my trombone!!! 04:45:56 http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs112.snc3/15956_210441155020_601130020_4464643_2268885_n.jpg 04:50:46 -!- oklofok has joined. 04:51:05 okay finally felt like learning the techniques in "how to develop a super power memory" 04:51:32 after one day's training, i had a friend tell me 42 cards from the deck and i told him the missing ones 04:51:42 (1 error) 04:54:02 also i memorized the order of a deck in ~ 10 minutes, random access, although card -> index was a bit unreliable... then again i was getting pretty tired 04:54:23 i guess that's all... people should seriously read that book 04:54:35 also you people 04:56:33 -!- Bjornung has joined. 05:06:11 -!- Pthing has joined. 05:10:39 * oklofok considers memorizing the internet 05:12:51 Is oklofok a spambot? 05:13:03 Darth_Cliche: yes 05:13:17 ...so why doesn't someone kick it? 05:14:54 haha 05:15:03 ...oh, so it isn't a spambot? 05:15:15 it's a 50 year old book 05:15:51 Ahem. Oklofok, are you a human? 05:15:55 although i guess that could still be considered spam 05:16:04 dunno 05:16:15 usually i say i'm a lizard 05:16:45 I'm a mizard 05:16:48 (doesn't mean the system doesn't work for humans, i have a human brain) 05:17:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:17:30 ...I'd accuse you of being a furry, except that doesn't quite work with lizards. Maybe a scaly. 05:17:36 Hi sebbu2 05:22:25 i wish there was a book about memorizing data structures in general, loraine was more of a magician than a computer scientist 05:22:42 * Warrigal substitutes for oklofok. 05:22:47 Usually I say I'm a dog. 05:22:49 also cs may have been slightly different in '57 05:23:14 well telling by your face... 05:24:07 Have I used the nick DogFace here? 05:24:47 I'm definitely not a Martian. 05:25:16 Warrigal: either that or you've linked pictures of yourself and your damn ugly 05:25:20 *you're 05:25:26 i don't remember which tbh 05:25:58 but yes, countless times 05:26:25 I've either linked pictures of myself countless times or used the nick DogFace here countless times? 05:26:25 Come to think of it, the name 'Warrigal' sounds like a dog breed. 05:26:28 Interesting. 05:26:51 It's a species of canine indigenous to Australia. 05:26:59 Ah. 05:27:00 i had a theory about Warrigal's nicks 05:27:05 Wait. 05:27:11 You expect me to believe that? 05:27:17 but it's somewhere deep in the logs 05:27:19 You're jacrave-ing me! 05:27:22 wait 05:27:29 you're not my RL friends 05:27:31 nvm 05:27:32 something about a sex change operation 05:27:39 Ah, yes. 05:28:01 "ihope", tentatively seeking reassurance and hoping that the operation will work out. 05:28:39 And then "Warrigal", i.e. "Warri gal", obviously post-op. 05:32:24 -!- clog has joined. 05:32:24 -!- clog_ has joined. 05:32:46 what does it say in your mug 05:32:51 Warrigal is a synonym for dingo. 05:33:04 also you look *very* different than i expected 05:33:07 oklofok: "For integral x > 0, compute the number of pairs of distinct points A and B on y = x^2 where the slope of line AB is 2008." 05:33:25 Where "line AB" is AB with an overline. 05:33:35 (unless you are the jap or something dude) 05:33:56 And "^2" is a superscript 2. But anyway. 05:34:05 I wonder what you expected me to look like. 05:34:13 "(unless you are the jap or something dude)" 05:34:21 closer 05:34:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 05:34:26 ...my brother thinks "dingo" is a slang term for penis. 05:34:43 everything is a slang word for penis. 05:34:48 That's true. 05:34:51 except penis, it's just a word for penis. 05:35:00 "Everything" is indeed a slang term for penis. 05:35:05 -!- immibis has joined. 05:35:17 Also, "dick" is not a slang term, it's just a regular term. 05:35:21 Hi immibis 05:35:24 i'm pretty sure this conversation has been had here 05:35:35 Wait, seriously? 05:35:39 In this very channel? 05:35:48 hi 05:36:11 Hm, everything itches. That can't be good. /me goes to a urologist. 05:36:13 yes. i say everything is a slang term for penis, someone says that same joke. or maybe it's my first deja vu i don't recognize as one. 05:36:18 we've had a lot of conversations about penises 05:36:25 hi immie 05:36:27 You're weird, you know that? 05:36:35 yes. 05:36:46 ("You" here was plural, just to clarify) 05:36:56 i was told that today at uni, well not directly 05:37:16 it was implied via antisymmetric eyebrows 05:37:43 because i have to remove these plastic flap thingies from all the bottles i empty 05:37:51 and i do it with my teeth 05:37:55 Eyebrows that were at the same height at no distance from the median plane. 05:38:19 Þ 05:38:22 :-Þ 05:38:33 Warrigal: umm wouldn't those be symmetric 05:38:58 Eyebrows that were at a different height at every distance from the median plane? No, certainly not. 05:39:31 oh lol i misparsed 05:39:50 but point taken 05:39:59 Hey, I'm wearing my medal in that picture. 05:40:22 some sorta math medal? 05:40:26 Yeah. 05:40:32 what did you win? 05:40:39 Warrigal: The number of integer pairs on y = x^2, x > 0 that form a slope of 2008 is 2007. 4014 points in total. 05:40:53 Team high scorer, perhaps. 05:40:57 you mentioned your friend was at some sorta championships, i figured you weren't because you didn't mention that 05:41:01 oh 05:41:09 He won Most Times Accidentally Deregistered From Agora. 05:41:20 MizardX: that sounds right. 05:41:48 oklofok: I wonder which friend that was. 05:42:02 Warrigal: this was about the dinosaurs 05:42:04 the conversation 05:42:21 Ah, yes. 05:42:22 (defined as some sorta connected regions on ZxZ) 05:42:35 maybe a year ago or so 05:42:41 Yeah, 2008-ominoes or something. 05:42:48 the actual problem was trivial iirc 05:42:56 Why 2008 instead of 2009? 05:43:04 Because it was last year or something. 05:43:14 Hell, we should probably be gearing up for 2010. 05:43:16 I dearly hope the problem was not trivial, as I couldn't solve it. 05:43:37 hmm. 05:43:52 well i don't remember it, usually that happens if the problem is complex to state, or trivial to solve 05:44:24 MizardX: so why 2007? 05:44:44 It was practically equivalent to this: "A dinosaur is a polyomino of at least 2008 squares. A primitive dinosaur is a dinosaur that cannot be divided into multiple dinosaurs. Find the number of primitive dinosaurs." 05:44:58 slope of line between a and b is (b^2-a^2)/(b-a), which simplifies to (b + a). Slope was 2008, so a + b = 2008. 2007 solutions for a,b > 0. 05:45:19 MizardX: oh, that's not right. 05:45:29 Aren't there only 1003 solutions? 05:45:47 oh i misunderstood the question 05:45:50 ... oh, right 05:45:51 -!- clog has quit (Connection timed out). 05:45:51 -!- clog_ has changed nick to clog. 05:45:52 1004, actually. 05:46:26 Is a = b also a solution? 05:46:31 -!- Bjornung has quit. 05:46:33 what do you mean can't be divided into multiple dinosaurs? 05:46:45 MizardX: yeah. 05:46:54 of course it is 05:47:28 oklofok: it cannot be partitioned into dinosaurs. 05:47:37 can you define that? 05:47:48 by removing points? 05:48:07 yeah i guess that is obvious 05:48:31 or just one point? 05:48:39 Hmm? 05:48:44 ohhh 05:48:56 err 05:49:03 a = b doesn't have any distance, and thus can't form a unique line. 05:49:22 MizardX: but it's a solution 05:49:26 ;() 05:49:27 *;) 05:49:30 to the equation 05:49:32 oklofok: not of (b^2-a^2)/(b-a) = 2008. 05:49:42 not that equation, no 05:49:45 :P 05:49:52 So it's a solution of some equation. :-P 05:50:06 it 05:50:16 wrong window and accidentally pressed enter :P 05:50:32 0*x = 0*it 05:50:39 it's a solution of that equation. 05:50:59 a=b is also a solution of 3x=0 05:51:04 to an equation that was mentioned! 05:51:04 no wait 05:51:06 of 0x=0 05:51:30 also to prove that there are no solutions for x=-x: (1) x = -x (2) 1x = -1x (3) 1 = -1 05:52:12 A dinosaur is a polyomino of at least an infinite number of squares. A primitive dinosaur is a dinosaur that cannot be divided into multiple dinosaurs. Find the number of primitive dinosaurs. 05:52:16 Answer: 0 05:52:25 At a random guess 05:52:30 a line of 2008 in a row is one 05:52:32 Darth_Cliche: that's false, if there are any dinosaurs. 05:52:43 ? 05:52:48 Take the dinosaur {(0,x) | x > 0}. 05:53:00 * Darth_Cliche has no idea what that represents. 05:53:11 One square and all the squares to the right of it. 05:53:21 Ah. 05:53:28 oklofok: now enumerate the rest! 05:53:34 It can be divided into multiple dinosaurs 05:53:36 that can't be partitioned into dinosaurs? 05:53:41 both identical to itself 05:53:42 oh right 05:53:46 "if there are any dinosaurs." 05:53:49 should read what you say 05:53:58 Darth_Cliche: no 05:54:06 it can't be divided into two dinosaurs that look like it 05:54:37 or any amount in fact, any partition into dinosaurs will have at most one infinite dinosaur 05:54:52 *partitioning 05:55:24 oklofok: take the dinosaur {(0,x) | x > 0} u {(1,x) | x > 0}. 05:55:46 Warrigal: not a partition of {(0,x) | x > 0} 05:55:51 i meant that one can't be 05:56:05 * Warrigal nods. 05:56:07 "Darth_Cliche: It can be divided into multiple dinosaurs" <<< response to this 05:56:29 The obvious name for {(0,x) | x > 0} is the omega dinosaur. 05:56:46 I want to see the omega plus one dinosaur. 05:56:49 A dinosaur is a polyomino which resembles a dinosaur. Find the number of dinosaurs. 05:56:53 Answer: Infinity 05:56:56 Or 0 05:57:00 or anything inbetween 05:57:15 Aleph, not infinity. 05:57:16 seeing as how "resembles a dinosaur" is completely subjective 05:57:25 There are a lot of infinite numbers-of-things. 05:57:49 I do not, and will not ever, understand the difference between aleph and infinity. 05:58:11 Darth_Cliche: infinity is defined as follows: if a set can be put into bijection with a proper subset of its, it's infinite 05:58:30 the actual infinite numbers are then sizes of different infinite sets, again defined by what can be put into bijection with what 05:58:35 There are a bunch of definitions of infinity, and they're pretty much entirely incompatible. 05:58:46 As for aleph? 05:58:49 well right that's cardinality 05:59:05 aleph is the size of N 05:59:07 Ah, so aleph is like "infinityth"? 05:59:08 the set of natural numbers 06:00:07 I hate infinity, and always will. 06:00:21 Aleph is just the answer to the question "How many natural numbers are there?" 06:00:54 Aleph_1 is the answer to the question "What's the size of the smallest set that's bigger than aleph?", aleph_2 is the answer to "What's the size of the smallest set that's bigger than aleph_1?", and so on. 06:01:29 I have to leave now 06:01:30 -!- Darth_Cliche has quit ("Leaving"). 06:01:32 aleph^2 06:01:41 aleph^2 = aleph. 06:02:09 aleph_aleph 06:02:47 aleph is not a valid thing to put in the subscript. 06:02:54 haha 06:03:12 The smallest cardinal number greater than aleph_n for all natural numbers n is aleph_omega. 06:03:51 omega > aleph ? 06:04:22 omega and aleph are different types of numbers; you can't really compare them like that. 06:04:27 Warrigal: if it anywhere had a "line" (of any shape) of 4016 squares, you could divide the thing into two polyominoes of 2008 06:04:33 omega does have a size, though, and the size of omega is aleph. 06:04:33 so that at least puts an upper bound on the size 06:04:40 oklofok: no, it doesn't. 06:04:45 it doesn't? 06:04:47 Nope. 06:04:51 err... 06:04:53 shite 06:04:57 :P 06:05:21 at least not directly 06:05:24 I don't think I was able to come up with an upper bound on the size. 06:06:27 Warrigal: what's the size of the smallest set bigger than aleph_omega? 06:06:49 err... it totally does put an upper bound in the size, start with any cell, because we have a polyamino, we can connect it to any other cell, therefore there's a line to any other cell 06:07:04 immibis: aleph_(omega+1). 06:07:17 so you can't have 8032 cells because blah 06:07:25 Warrigal: what's the size of the smallest set bigger than aleph_(omega+n) for any natural number or aleph number or aleph_omega number n? 06:07:26 oklofok: wait, what's your upper bound, then? 06:07:36 not 8032 at least :D 06:07:43 err 06:07:54 maybe like 4016^2 06:07:54 immibis: aleph_(omega*2), if I read that correctly. 06:08:10 i'm not very good at thinking while ircing 06:08:17 Warrigal: what's the size of the smallest set bigger than aleph_(omega^n) for any natural number or aleph number or aleph_omega number n? 06:08:43 immibis: wait, I interpreted your question as if you had said "for any natural number n". 06:09:27 Then again, n can't be an aleph number, so I'll continue to interpret your questions as if you had said that. 06:09:33 immibis: aleph_(omega^omega). 06:09:41 well right, if you can't bound the thing in a 2008x2008 box, then there are two cells at least 2008 away from each other 06:09:53 those cells are connected by some line 06:10:01 which will be of length at least 2008 06:10:02 err shit 06:10:07 make those 4016 06:10:26 then you can just "floodfill" them into a partition 06:10:31 having names for infinite numbers is stupid, especially considering that basically you have "the biggest natural number" and now you've got names fo rnumbers bigger than it 06:10:49 If it touches the edges of a 4016x2008 box, you can cut it into two dinosaurs. 06:10:51 no you don't have that 06:11:03 yes 06:11:08 Heck, if its height is at least 4016. 06:11:10 so there, a bound 06:11:21