< 1260316942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I was wondering about your opinions on the topic, and if you could read past the somewhat stupid article and tell me whether or not it had any... Useful meaning. < 1260316946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, thanks. < 1260316964 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesnt. < 1260316981 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human language is far more complex than just any silly little thing that shows that monkeys have "prefixes" < 1260316986 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if this is surprising to begin with < 1260316992 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1260317005 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##philosophy is discussing language as well, and their discussion is even more inane < 1260317067 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse it is < 1260317077 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not by much :) < 1260317080 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :philosophers are often completely ignorant of linguistics in any real sense. < 1260317099 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the people there are philosophers, i think they're just trolls < 1260317186 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1260317187 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so < 1260317188 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1260317719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Someone claimed that the Piraha don't have a language?! < 1260317788 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't *mean* to! < 1260317802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1260318230 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260318983 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I heard Piraha don't have a language.. < 1260319085 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Piraha don't have a language? Interesting; I'll make note of that. < 1260319309 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a language, so I have to speak English instead < 1260319767 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿No tienes una lengua? Yo pensaba que hablabas... I dunno. < 1260319799 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish or Spanish o algo. < 1260320061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es que no tengo mi propia idioma, solo hablo los de los demás < 1260320217 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wenas < 1260320239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1260320380 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tampoco yo tengo mi propia idioma; inventar una idioma es difícil y otros no me comprenderían. < 1260320465 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A menos que se basa en griego o algo. < 1260320531 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Que siempre he querido hacer, inventar una idioma basado en griego.) < 1260320549 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Podría llamarla "griego".) < 1260320923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Mi pensas ke vi bezonas studadi Esperanton. < 1260320944 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260320970 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if I knew how to ask how to say stuff in Esperanto in Esperanto. < 1260321083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :La vorto "foo" en Esperanto estas kion? < 1260321100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... I think; my Esperanto isn't *that* good.) < 1260321115 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also to ask the meaning of an Esperanto thing. < 1260321124 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s// how/ < 1260321293 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-158-81-44.range86-158.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1260321311 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would be 'La vorto "bezoni" en anglo estas kion?' < 1260321333 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure it would be fine to say 'Kion estas la vorto . . .' < 1260321344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1260321373 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260321375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And answering your question, "should" or "ought to". < 1260321424 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary says it's "needs to". < 1260321456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1260321462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right. 'Tis late. < 1260321523 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me how the letter V is pronounced. < 1260321549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like F, but you put your top teeth on top of your bottom lip while you say it < 1260321556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you end up with a buzzier sound as a result < 1260321566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you let your throat resonate < 1260321570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so V has a pitch whereas F doesn't < 1260321627 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's pronounced like a V, in other words. < 1260321652 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know. < 1260321859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I was explaining in English < 1260321862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about Esperanto < 1260321882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just assumed you'd forgotten how to pronounce it, it's not like it's used all this often < 1260321895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor like it's the sort of thing that the sort of people who typically hang out here would particularly need to remember < 1260321911 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had feared that. < 1260321949 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you pronounce your Fs bilabially? < 1260321970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too early in the morning to remember what "bilabially" means < 1260322020 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a manner involving both lips. < 1260322072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so < 1260322092 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesante. < 1260322113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, then, it would be very hard to pronounce anything non-bilabially without removing one of the lips, because they always affect how the sound radiates out. < 1260322130 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but only minorly. < 1260322217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vocal synthesizers still tend to have a lip radiation model. (Of course my viewpoint is the speech recognition one, not the linguistic one.) < 1260322236 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1260322291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's roughly the same phoneme in Esperanto. < 1260322377 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says Wikipedia: "Mia kontribuo estas modesta sed mia subteno estas sincera." < 1260322440 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says another Wikipedia: "Mi cantidad es pequeña pero mi apoyo es sincero." < 1260322487 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says another: "My amount is little, but my support is sincere." < 1260322520 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a coincidence that three different donors with the same name should donate the same amount on the same date with messages that are word-for-word translations of each other. < 1260322598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same person, presumably they just translated the messages < 1260322618 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the original was. < 1260322631 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy's name is Yizhao Lang, so probably English. >.> < 1260322631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the donation form asks for messages in all the Wikipedia languages? To keep the less clever donators out. < 1260325302 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1260326518 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260328014 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1260329776 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1260329870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: monkey "languge"? because not even human language is turing complete. < 1260329875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WHOOSH* < 1260330062 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you don't understand his complicated linguistic babbles, you could just ask. < 1260330077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oklofok -----###
< 1260330105 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was i helpless? < 1260330119 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean to talk about human language in that way? < 1260330122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you misread the *WHOOSH* target < 1260330129 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean helpless people are the ones you want to swat < 1260330148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_clue_less, oklofok, clueless < 1260330160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and willfully malignant < 1260330173 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my will is full of malignant stuff < 1260330203 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even worse puns than usual day < 1260330261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wilfully < 1260330286 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah, i don't have a printer, can someone print these papers for me, scan them, and email them to me? < 1260330287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait it's a US/british thing < 1260330325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have a print to file option? < 1260330338 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so willful would in fact only mean what i interpreted it as, in us english? < 1260330367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reverse. if it is even that simple < 1260330405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those us/british spelling differences aren't always as clearcut as the dictionaries would seem to imply < 1260330412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, this is stupid < 1260330413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so i think < 1260330421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there no way to open a 1 GB uncompressed tar file on Windows? < 1260330430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without installing software? < 1260330445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should write one - in feather, naturally < 1260330463 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: printing to file doesn't help, i need the stuff on paper < 1260330464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, given that there isn't, why would anyone distribute Windows software in that form? < 1260330507 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to get the thing in one file? < 1260330515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could have used .zip, though < 1260330520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, anything Windows actually handles < 1260330527 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows opens .zip? < 1260330544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1260330547 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it just had some sort of compressed folder thing of its own < 1260330547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays < 1260330549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you not know? < 1260330555 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i know < 1260330561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you used Windows < 1260330562 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably won't know tomorrow either < 1260330565 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sure < 1260330567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I muddling you with someone else? < 1260330567 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the time < 1260330597 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just not interested in how specific programs work < 1260330601 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including oses < 1260330627 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the details feel theoretically interesting to me < 1260330649 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i recall compressing a folder once < 1260330659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"new compressed folder" just creates a zip file < 1260330668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nowadays" is a bit stretching it, given that (source: Wikipedia) Windows has included zip file support (under the "compressed folders" terminology) since 1998. < 1260330670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now is 2009. < 1260330691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very many versions of Windows, though < 1260330705 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win98 is what i know most about, probably < 1260330707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98, ME, XP, 2003, Vista, 7. < 1260330740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and 2000. < 1260330749 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a windows 2003? < 1260330759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more of a server thing, I think. < 1260330794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows Server 2003 is the official name. But it's still arguably a version of Windows. < 1260330811 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that actually does sort of ring a bell < 1260330828 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is weird, i'm not a serverologist < 1260330863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's there sort-of between XP and Vista. The internal version numbers are 5.2.something. < 1260330897 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xp and vista are both 5.2.something? < 1260330905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vista's 6.0, Win7's 6.1 < 1260330914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP is 5.1.something, as far as I know; and Vista's 6.x. < 1260330921 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay right < 1260330924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I remember that precisely /because/ it's so ludicrous) < 1260330936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit bizarre that 7 is not 7 when it easily could've been. < 1260330945 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would've been kinda weird if they'd had the same whole number for vista and xp < 1260330954 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err whole number isn't a very good term for that is it < 1260330960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the reason is to support broken programs that check the version number with == rather than >= < 1260330961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd O_< < 1260331036 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the whole point just the pun? < 1260331046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1260331066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*puns < 1260331166 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one is the watch thing? < 1260331182 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna break that down for me, i don't think it quite works < 1260331229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Film the one: "The Core is a 2003 science fiction disaster film -- concerns a team that has to drill to the center of the Earth and set off a series of nuclear explosions in order to restart the rotation of Earth's core." Film the other: "Sunshine is a 2007 British science fiction film -- with the Earth in peril from the dying Sun, the crew is sent to reignite the Sun with a massive stellar bomb, a nuclear device with the equivalent mass of Manhattan Island." < 1260331233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When in doubt, blow it up. < 1260331300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I never noticed that my home dir was the same on the Windows and Linux systems here < 1260331327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also a film about prevent the sun from blowing up, or something < 1260331345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait you said that < 1260331394 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see what sunshine has to do with this < 1260331407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: also the subtitle pun < 1260331411 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't there a proof for these jokes, annoying trying to reverse-engineer them < 1260331423 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1260331427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the hovertext but i don't think that's different from the main one < 1260331466 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which jokes? < 1260331484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sunshine is the film the xkcd description most reminds me of. Though maybe that's only because I've seen it and not seen that The Core film. < 1260331527 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in the hovertext "happening on my watch" works (barely imo), in the actual comic i don't think the watch thing works at all < 1260331531 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it even tries to < 1260331536 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: newest xkcd < 1260331549 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to need some instructions for this stuff < 1260331551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you need to reread it i guess < 1260331571 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1260331574 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1260331589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that i mean everyone < 1260331605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you cannot get it before the end pun is revealed < 1260331660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that message into the phone is a bit amusing < 1260331708 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is that guy is *for* daylight saving, is his point he wants to get to use the daylight saving feature on his watch? < 1260331768 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the phone message is a side joke referring to the fact movie people are pretty, afaiu, if it's a joke about the sun being hot, i don't understand it at all. < 1260331791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic (MWAHAHA) < 1260331855 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird how reluctant people are to explain jokes properly, don't you want me to share the good laugh! :\ < 1260331863 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm i'll read < 1260331867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1260331871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S A TRAP < 1260331884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you read the MWAHAHA < 1260331917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: puns don't work if you don't mostly get them yourselves? < 1260331929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*f < 1260331937 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they do < 1260331961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a rhetorical question, you're not supposed to question it! < 1260332009 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to ask if there was a specific pun in that, but maybe i'll leave the subject of me being dense for now ;) < 1260332101 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i guess i finally understand how tvtropes can be addictive < 1260332119 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the random articles i've tried to get hooked on didn't have enough terms < 1260332136 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terms need to be checked of course < 1260332149 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what's this tomato surprise now?" < 1260332225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you again on monday, then < 1260332338 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just read these two < 1260332359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you one of those people who can eat just one peanut, or something? < 1260332398 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally not < 1260332476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. i was beginning to question your humanity, there < 1260332860 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1260333823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why question that which you know does not exist? < 1260333929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must not have got the memo < 1260334215 0 :ineiros!n=itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1260334323 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a tvtrope about characters never fucking telling someone "i'll explain this later" when someone starts asking something, but they really need to do something < 1260334340 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happens in pretty much everything i watch, i'm like "tell him to fucking ask you tomorrow" < 1260334350 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no < 1260334355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot recall
< 1260334448 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, except in rare cases, doesn't always work, although that never seems very plausible, sure people can say something like "you always say that", but, well, if that's true, then maybe the characters should've been less crappy friends in the past. < 1260334465 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be *except in rare cases; < 1260334496 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "no seriously this is life or death, i'll explain this tomorrow at 12:00" < 1260334508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiots < 1260334580 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i mean that would definitely work, not sure it was clear. < 1260335893 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: okay took almost an hour of my time < 1260335897 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm impressed < 1260335931 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260335943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1260335944 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia surfing is much more dangerous though < 1260335979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to me < 1260335989 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just because you already know everyhing < 1260335992 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everything < 1260336018 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly because you don't want to know everything... well might be a bit of a stretch < 1260336025 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, have to go clean dog vomit -> < 1260336260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Or both!" < 1260336781 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both. < 1260336899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you cleaned dog vomit or both? What's the other thing? < 1260337009 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there were 4 puddles of vomit < 1260337201 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1260338934 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1260338960 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-178-159.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260339568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most situations, holding someone's eyelids open, then shining bright lights into their eyes, then asking them lots of questions < 1260339579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be considered a torture, or at least a really nasty interrogation < 1260339585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why are opticians allowed to get away with it? < 1260339642 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard similar arguments about dentists < 1260339650 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mob < 1260339768 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1260339984 0 :lifthrasiir!i=VSQ3CL8A@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1260340127 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1260340927 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-111-204.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1260340935 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1260342039 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Roger Penrose is the king of bullshit. He's got a fucking PhD in bullshit (and mathematics). However, since he actually understands quantum mechanics, he had to find another rug to sweep the details under: quantum gravity." < 1260342323 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you agree, because you don't, or other? < 1260342573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that dude < 1260342577 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1260343137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, what dude? < 1260343224 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quantum computers are not known to be able to solve NP-complete problems in polynomial time." < 1260343650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1260343657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem quite true from what I remember < 1260343667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260344696 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1260345085 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1260345161 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That statement needs clarification. < 1260345173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quantum computers are not known to be able to solve /all/ NP-complete problems in polynomial time. < 1260345184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are NP-complete problems which are solvable in polynomial time by quantum computers. < 1260345237 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC) < 1260345327 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1260345339 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know the definition of np-completeness? < 1260345375 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can't quantum computers do polynomial time reductions in polynomial time < 1260345378 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's NP-complete if it's in NP and it's NP-hard. It's NP-hard if all problems in NP can be reduced to it. < 1260345382 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hahah. < 1260345397 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I say the definition, clearly it's stupid to think that some NP-complete problems are and some aren't X-D < 1260345400 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think that one through :P < 1260345415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, certainly some NP problems are solvable in polynomial time on a quantum computer. < 1260345420 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah remembering stuff is dangerous < 1260345428 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, like doing nothing :P < 1260345450 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fleh, some NP-P problems. < 1260345497 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't find a reason to laugh at that, so it's probably true. < 1260345515 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone finds a quantum algorithm to do NP-hard problems then did they prove P=NP? < 1260345526 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a P algorithm < 1260345541 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they find an quantum algorithm to solve NP problems in P < 1260345551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1260345557 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well can polynomial time runs on a quantum computer be simulated by polynomial runs on a tm? < 1260345558 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1260345564 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just prove that quantum computers are more powerful than they thought. < 1260345575 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more powerful than a turing machine? < 1260345577 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: No. < 1260345583 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: Yes. < 1260345587 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1260345590 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not more powerful per se < 1260345596 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they can, then that would prove P=NP, because you'd have an algorithm to solve the problem in polynomial time, just simulate the quantum algo. < 1260345596 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But able to compute more in less time. < 1260345599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1260345600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1260345617 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since everyone seems to think P <> NP, then the reasonable assumption is that quantum computers are stronger than normal computers? < 1260345617 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the question was mostly socratic method, i think < 1260345643 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: my questions? They were not socratic I was genuinely asking < 1260345647 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: In the sense that they can compute things in lower time bound, not in that they can compute more overall. < 1260345657 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: no i mean my question about the polynomial runs < 1260345667 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T.M.s are still valuable as a representation of all that can be computed, Q.C.s can just compute it faster. < 1260345670 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor answered it, i was sort of trying to make you answer your own question < 1260345687 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were asking him... < 1260345688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST ANSWER ALL. < 1260345695 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1260345742 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it can only compute the same things.. it's still stronger than a turing machine though? < 1260345746 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: afaiu the quantum computing model is somewhere between determinism and nondeterminism, i haven't seen a formal definition for that stuff, and sadly i don't understand anything but that. < 1260345752 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's still a TM complexity class isn't it..... < 1260345755 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that isn't formal < 1260345777 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not more powerful, it's just faster. At least by the definition of computational power I'm used to. < 1260345827 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1260345845 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can you make a random number generator on a quantum computer? < 1260345855 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: it's just as strong in the turing reduction sense, less strong using other reductions, like a polynomial time reduction, at least nondeterministic tm's < 1260345888 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im consfued.. < 1260345901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that's an interesting point ... kinda. Quantum computers may be able to produce truly random numbers, which could arguably make them more powerful than a T.M. since the problem "produce a completely-random number" can be run on them but not a T.M. < 1260345905 0 :`Fuco`!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1260345917 0 :`Fuco`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Fuco < 1260345930 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still confused about the P vs NP thing < 1260345952 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can only compute tthe same set as the turing machine... but it can do it faster: Without proving P=NP < 1260345958 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems almost like a paradox < 1260345994 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np doesn't mean you do things faster < 1260346009 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you do them in polynomial time in a different model of computation < 1260346026 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, nondeterministic Turing machines. < 1260346050 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know the actual algorithms you can write are the exact same, but in the known reductions, nondeterministic algorithms just map to deterministic algorithms that take a fuckload of time. < 1260346067 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I getting mixed up between computational models and complexity classes? < 1260346081 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are different things right? < 1260346090 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1260346118 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually we define complexity classes as classes of languages that have some properties < 1260346128 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these properties can involve different computation models < 1260346160 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's quantum complexity classes < 1260346161 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the property defining P is "the problem of whether w \in L can be solved in polynomial time with a deterministic turing machine" < 1260346175 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do they exist? I mean aren't the nomal complexity classes good enough? < 1260346208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the quantum complexity classes are not equal to any known complexity class, but they are studied, why not give them a name? < 1260346224 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why aren't they equal to the other classes < 1260346232 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a new model of computation lead to new complexity classes < 1260346263 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the same reason that it's not necessarily true that P = NP < 1260346264 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just to give a more fine grained characterization so that we can observe the difference in 'speed' like that < 1260346271 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we define the steps the machine can take differently < 1260346276 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(between quantum computers and turing machine) < 1260346291 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so differently, that a polynomial amount of steps in the other can't necessarily be translated into a polynomial amount of steps in the other < 1260346318 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you could say that < 1260346323 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the speed thing < 1260346437 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's probabilistic machines, which afaik give us completely separate classes again < 1260346464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346464 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346464 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346464 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346465 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346465 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346465 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346466 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346466 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346468 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346468 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346468 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346468 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260346495 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know much complexity theory, it's fascinating, but we don't have courses about it atm, and i don't really have much time for anything outside courses and irc < 1260346495 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by atm i mean ever. < 1260346502 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it's just a language why are the different < 1260346521 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a prof did tell me today he might give a course in recursion theory if i managed to recruit more people interested in it < 1260346532 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: it's a class of languages < 1260346543 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a specific machine recognizes some language < 1260346555 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we define a class of them by taking all possible machines and seeing what they can do < 1260346582 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually given some restriction, like finite termination, termination on positive instances, termination in polynomial time... < 1260346605 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and by class i just mean a set < 1260346606 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :termination in polynomial time???? < 1260346645 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346645 0 :Fuco!n=a@fuco.sks3.muni.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346645 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346645 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346645 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346645 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346645 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346645 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346645 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346647 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :termination in polynomial time. that's how P is defined, there's some polynomial that bounds the computation steps for an input of size n < 1260346686 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346686 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346686 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346686 0 :Cerise!i=jerry@unaffiliated/cerise JOIN :#esoteric < 1260346763 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P is defined as the set of all such languages L that there is some machine M that recognizes exactly L, and there's a polynomial p such that the machine M always halts in p(|w|) steps or less < 1260346766 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1260346785 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does machine have a definition? < 1260346791 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the polynomial can be specific to the machine M < 1260346803 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we define it as a deterministic turing machine in the case of P < 1260346816 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of NP, we take the exact same definition, but use nondeterministic turing machines < 1260346832 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not sure what it's supposed to do with negative instances < 1260346846 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said i don't know any complexity theory < 1260346857 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1260346863 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you might define say QP < 1260346876 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which replaces the turing machine with a quantum machine < 1260346878 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in any case it must recognize exactly the correct instances, and if the instance is positive, then it must halt in polynomial time. < 1260346883 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1260346884 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1260346896 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question P = NP or QP = NP don't make sense..... < 1260346904 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's for different machines how can you compare < 1260346919 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probabilistic P, where you also have some sort of details about probabilities with which it succeeds < 1260346927 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P = NP makes sense, these are just sets of languages < 1260346964 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p contains stuff like {{"a", "b"}, a*b*c*, {"a", "aa", "aaa", ...}, ...} < 1260346971 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np also contains some languages < 1260346977 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just ask whether they contain the same languages < 1260346991 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where a*b*c* is a regexp defining a language) < 1260347010 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the definition of a language? A set of strings? < 1260347012 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complexity classes are sets of languages which are sets of words which are sequences of characters < 1260347013 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite? < 1260347016 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1260347028 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright then I suppose the questions make sense < 1260347033 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1260347040 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words must be finite, languages and classes can be infinite < 1260347058 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact a language is considered trivial if it's finite. < 1260347091 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260347115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this laptop is getting more and more broken < 1260347121 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-61.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260347130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the screen frame has got deformed somehow, and the screen doesn't shut as a result < 1260347153 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is there a proof that NP <> QP? < 1260347163 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I invented QP or if that's a real one... < 1260347249 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : QMAM: Quantum Merlin-Arthur-Merlin Public-Coin Interactive Proofs < 1260347269 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know the answer, but i think NP is a superset of QP, and QP is a superset of P, in which case we couldn't know, because then we'd also know P!=NP < 1260347318 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you prove P = QP and QP <> NP, or P <> QP and QP = NP, then you'd have solved the NP thing < 1260347358 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, assuming the chain of inclusion < 1260347367 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just basic set theory < 1260347391 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just sets of languages, remember < 1260347408 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" QNC: Quantum NC < 1260347408 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The class of decision problems solvable by polylogarithmic-depth quantum circuits with bounded probability of error. (A uniformity condition may also be imposed.) " < 1260347428 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting a lot of the quantum stuff incorperates error bounds < 1260347442 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand that < 1260347444 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what we really want is hooking up quantum computers with normal ones -- so we can check the outupts < 1260347466 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many things to learn, so little time... oh wait, i have tons of time left < 1260347497 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BQP: Bounded-Error Quantum Polynomial-Time < 1260347504 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qwiki.stanford.edu/wiki/Complexity_Zoo:B#bqp < 1260347512 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BQP^BQP = BQP < 1260347516 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you can use subroutines < 1260347520 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1260347533 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, for a class C, C^C = C means you can use subroutines? < 1260347567 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arthur is a BQP (i.e. quantum) verifier who can exchange quantum messages with Merlin. So Arthur and Merlin's states may become entangled during the course of the protocol. < 1260347568 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1260347569 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, usually A^B means you have an oracle that solves B in, say, one step, and you solve A given that oracle < 1260347684 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like P^NP = NP, in P^NP you can solve any problem in NP in one step, but a nondeterminitic turing machine can already do that. < 1260347697 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NP^NP = NP < 1260347703 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1260347704 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think, at least, might be talking out of my ass, in which case i hope someone corrects this. < 1260347705 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1260347712 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no in fact i don't think that's true... < 1260347720 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks
< 1260347866 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eerr, hehe... < 1260347876 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an open question whether P^NP = NP < 1260347891 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242437597.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1260347939 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP \subset P^NP anyway... :) < 1260347994 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1260348009 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fucking hell!!! < 1260348016 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 10 mins and we stumble over an open question < 1260348044 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I remember why I was too scared to study complexity theoryy befor < 1260348102 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scottaaronson.com/writings/qchallenge.html < 1260348104 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten Semi-Grand Challenges for Quantum Computing Theory < 1260348152 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah complexity theory is full of open stuff, and it's full of towers that might be completely useless, like the whole polynomial hierarchy < 1260348184 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :towers, as in, we have these infinite sequences A1, A2, ..., and it's not known whether we're actually just talking about one set < 1260348194 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1260348211 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is we have tons of structure between these sets, it's just... it might all be just relations between the set and itself :P < 1260348293 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yay we solved the open problem of whether the complexity class A <= complexity class A with regard to this awesome reduction, using this awesome binary search technique" < 1260348354 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...at least, again, this is how i see it, mostly hearsay...) < 1260348407 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After twelve years of effort, not only do we still not know whether BQP sits in the classical polynomial hierarchy, there's really no evidence either way" < 1260348421 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1260348512 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do have courses about quantum computing, or at least one < 1260348521 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably take it < 1260348528 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION jelous
< 1260348552 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a lot of computing stuff here, discrete math uni sorta < 1260348584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just found http://whybzrisbetterthanx.github.com/ < 1260348624 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again the materials for our real analysis course come from another university completely, and the professor who lectures the course doesn't even really do it. < 1260348643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, github are potentially biased < 1260348680 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok here's a good one "Is BQP = BPP^BQNC? In other words, can the "quantum" part of any quantum algorithm be compressed to polylog(n) depth, provided we're willing to do polynomial-time classical postprocessing?" < 1260348697 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is known to be true for Shor's algorithm.) < 1260348701 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...let me do some polynomial time classical postprocessing on that sentence for a while < 1260348708 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1260348727 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1260348731 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay i think i get it < 1260348749 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was true the implication is that it's easier to build quantum computers than currenlty though < 1260348751 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought < 1260348841 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... i don't know how they're currently built, so... < 1260348845 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god for them? :P < 1260348858 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good < 1260348884 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something to do with physics and chemisty, I think.. not my domain < 1260348939 0 :boily!n=boily@poste61-170.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1260348948 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mine either, although interest has arisen this year < 1260348953 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for physics < 1260348957 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?? < 1260348958 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ? < 1260348976 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... i don't really know... i have this problem that i find pretty much everything interesting. < 1260349001 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly find anything interesting < 1260349002 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to be all of math and cs, but it's getting out of hand! < 1260349008 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just all < 1260349036 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with this quantum stuff it seems like knowing a good bit of physics is important for the computing bits < 1260349069 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i need to go read about mortality now < 1260349096 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound interesting < 1260349118 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's philosophy < 1260349125 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...of matrices < 1260349135 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?? < 1260349153 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those 3 things sound completely unrelated < 1260349155 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mortality of matrices means given a set of matrices, can you multiply them to zero < 1260349189 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1260349193 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1260349216 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this course, basically leading to proving gödel's incompleteness, although mortality is a much studied field in our uni < 1260349219 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1260349240 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about proving godels incompleteness :/ < 1260349266 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well i guess no one, but isn't it sort of something people are supposed to hear about? < 1260349324 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're right, maybe it's the mortality problem that's the interesting one, and not the provability of statements < 1260349340 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought mortality was about death rates < 1260349357 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about that too < 1260349365 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1260349372 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terms can have many meanings < 1260349386 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in mathematics where every word has a separate mathematical meaning... < 1260349512 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1260349532 0 :abasjueuygeg!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242436399.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1260349910 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1260350045 0 :p_q!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1242437599.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1260350100 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1260350966 0 :abasjueuygeg!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1260351146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mortalitys could be some sort of "more philosophical" finishing moves in the Mortal Kombat games. They already have plain old fatalities, and a huge number of variants (animality, babality, brutality, friendship; probably some I don't know of), so why not a mortality too. < 1260351435 0 :facsimile!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1260351460 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260351503 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260351519 0 :quantumEd!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1260351533 0 :mu!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-9.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1260351539 0 :mu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6 < 1260352073 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the animation could be like a bunch of matrices around the dude that multiply towards it and finally implode into singularity < 1260352093 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he die????? < 1260352126 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he becomes a total zero and everybody laughs at him < 1260354432 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year" is a famous unsolved problem in mathematics. < 1260354451 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been proven that we wish you either a merry Christmas or a happy new year, and most mathematicians believe we wish you both. < 1260354480 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's been proven that we wish him a merry Christmas and that they wish you a happy new year. < 1260354493 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1260354500 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I want a happy christmas and a merry new year? < 1260354503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any norwegians here? there are dubious reports of a giant UFO above the whole of norway < 1260354514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was wondering if someone would confirm or deny < 1260354518 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 I saw pics of it < 1260354533 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are a few papers about whether we wish you other time periods of other degrees of novelty and other enjoyabilities. < 1260354538 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've not seen it myself.... < 1260354553 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pasteit4me.com/83001 < 1260354562 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OxE6: that would contradict the axiom of choice, but it's believed to be consistent with plain old ZF. < 1260354565 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some links to pics and news reports < 1260354600 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZF? < 1260354625 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory. < 1260354645 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1260354664 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1260356413 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260356520 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260356581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I just found http://whybzrisbetterthanx.github.com/ <-- heh < 1260356660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if I said something like that about git then ehird would get very angry and point out how irrelevant it was due to being opinion based. Yet I'm quite sure he won't act that way when it is about bzr < 1260356695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I've been having my own thoughts about writing VCSes < 1260356707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I should really go home < 1260356717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue is that the laptop screen's having hardware problems, and as a result the laptop no longer closes < 1260356720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really badly need a new computer < 1260356730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cya < 1260356735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260356736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, get a new laptop then? < 1260356738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1260357612 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1260357829 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1260357898 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1260357981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : When I say the definition, clearly it's stupid to think that some NP-complete problems are and some aren't X-D < 1260358010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad you realized it. also glad that i didn't comment before reading on in the logs for once < 1260358066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:57:30 Fleh, some NP-P problems. < 1260358104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure whether any of the candidate problems are known not to be in P, even assuming P != NP < 1260358162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(factorization and discrete logarithm are the once i recall reading about) < 1260358167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ones < 1260358251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP-P problems? XD < 1260358268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problems in NP not in P < 1260358270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well can polynomial time runs on a quantum computer be simulated by polynomial runs on a tm? < 1260358283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was interpreting that as "NP minus P" problems. < 1260358283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's as unknown as P vs NP < 1260358300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Which suggests I'm not sure what. < 1260358313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the - is set difference, which is probably pronounced minus rather often < 1260358329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nough. < 1260358399 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quantumEd found that out < 1260358428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well i've obviously gone back to commenting before finishing reading, haven't i :D < 1260358441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : since everyone seems to think P <> NP, then the reasonable assumption is that quantum computers are stronger than normal computers? < 1260358463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's _a_ reasonable assumption, but i'm not sure there's a clear implication either way < 1260358474 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i really don't know anything about quantum computing, not all my questions were socratic method < 1260358482 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were also "i have no idea" < 1260358500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in quantum computers _could_ be simulated in P even if P != NP, but they might also require PSPACE which is harder than NP... < 1260358515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*could possibly < 1260358554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all unsolved problems iirc < 1260358577 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260358615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : T.M.s are still valuable as a representation of all that can be computed, Q.C.s can just compute it faster. < 1260358678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck T.M.'s aren't that good for fine-grained complexity anyway, because they don't have random access memory so you might get a quadratic overhead to use memory < 1260358719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although all the "big" questions that i know about care only about polynomials, so aren't that fine-grained < 1260358720 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinitely addressble random access memory would certainly be cool :) < 1260358738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subleq may be a good model for that < 1260358769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstractly < 1260358772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, whoa; Debian unstable's updating VirtualBox from 3.0 to the recent 3.1, which *finally* adds: "VM states can now be restored from arbitrary snapshots instead of only the last one, and new snapshots can be taken from other snapshots as well ("branched snapshots"; see the manual for more information)" < 1260358824 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260358943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : quantumEd: afaiu the quantum computing model is somewhere between determinism and nondeterminism, i haven't seen a formal definition for that stuff, and sadly i don't understand anything but that. < 1260358994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a different kind of nondeterminism than NP, with adding (superpositions) of quantum states and all, so not obviously contained either way as i said < 1260358997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also a couple other nice changes; virtio-net support for guests to sidestep the silly "emulate a real network card" and live migration of VMs between hosts, for example.) < 1260359033 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1260359100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSPACE might be considered a higher form of nondeterminism than both (arbitrary mixing of existential and universal quantification is the essence of the PSPACE-complete problem QBF (quantified (nothing to do with quantum) boolean formula) < 1260359107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1260359181 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1260359199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_quantified_Boolean_formula < 1260359200 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can we also define pspace with an alternating turing machine < 1260359211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... < 1260359414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the wp article on the latter seems to imply so < 1260359460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AP = PSPACE) < 1260359744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how can a new model of computation lead to new complexity classes < 1260359778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many complexity classes are simply what you get when adding resource bound measurements to a computational model < 1260359847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L, P, PSPACE you get from adding it to ordinary deterministic turing machines < 1260359858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NL, NP with nondeterministic ones < 1260359886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are believed to be different. so why shouldn't quantum models give yet another set < 1260359906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PSPACE = NPSPACE but that is a theorem which needed proof) < 1260360141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:20:16 in the case of NP, we take the exact same definition, but use nondeterministic turing machines < 1260360144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:20:32 well i'm not sure what it's supposed to do with negative instances < 1260360162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you switch positive and negative, you get the class co-NP instead < 1260360205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-SPACE = SPACE is another nice theorem... < 1260360229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1260360238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-NSPACE = NSPACE < 1260360368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes he is repeating some of what oklofok said
< 1260360391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, except oklofok actually explained in some detail < 1260360442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i don't know the answer, but i think NP is a superset of QP, and QP is a superset of P, in which case we couldn't know, because then we'd also know P!=NP < 1260360452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that one i think i contradicted ;D < 1260360619 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260360619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : like P^NP = NP, in P^NP you can solve any problem in NP in one step, but a nondeterminitic turing machine can already do that. < 1260360627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i think, at least, might be talking out of my ass, in which case i hope someone corrects this. < 1260360633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :D < 1260360640 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1260360701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's connected with the unsolved NP = co-NP problem, i think < 1260360739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically NP cannot obviously use itself as a subroutine because there is no way to utilize a "no" result < 1260360787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if NP = co-NP then you can convert between yes and no, so you get a way around that < 1260360812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in that case the polynomial hierarchy collapses iirc < 1260360928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not quite sure about that, should goolge < 1260360932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gl < 1260361243 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1260361307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah i cannot find a clear statement in any of wp articles i checked < 1260361317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1260361456 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok that one i think i contradicted ;D <<< but unfortunately so did quantumEd :P < 1260361461 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1260361481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he did, i just got to it < 1260361485 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was not QP, i think it was some other character mess < 1260361496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "After twelve years of effort, not only do we still not know whether BQP sits in the classical polynomial hierarchy, there's really no evidence either way" < 1260361496 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1260361507 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NP vs. P^NP thing i googled myself :D < 1260361537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed BQP was what you meant by QP < 1260361552 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oerjan: basically NP cannot obv..." <<< oh lol that should've been obvious, thanks < 1260361561 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you get for not knowing the exact definition < 1260361596 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oerjan: if you switch positive and negative, you get the class co-NP instead" <<< this doesn't tell me what the machine does with negative instances, does it? < 1260361612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1260361639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nondeterministic turing machine answers "yes" if there is any path which gives a yes answer, "no" otherwise < 1260361644 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah i prolly meant BQP < 1260361651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the co-classes reverse that < 1260361675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same as switching existential and universal quantification < 1260361684 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how fast does it answer no? < 1260361697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1260361706 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it just not halt? < 1260361717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know the polynomial bound, then there is no reason not to cut off after you get to it, regardless < 1260361728 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in cook's original reduction he said it returns false right away iirc < 1260361736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1260361774 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay i've read a version of it that uses a more traditional model of a computer < 1260361793 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to think after all this time i don't know exactly what NP means :D < 1260361793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also the answer checking version... < 1260361805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are equivalent < 1260361858 0 :iamcal!n=cal@66-162-68-164.static.twtelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260361874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am pretty sure assuming the machine has the same time available whether it answers yes or no gives the right class < 1260361909 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i suppose it's enough that it accepts stuff in polynomial time, and doesn't accept the wrong stuff < 1260361931 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean for proofs... would just make it easier to think of it as an actual machine if i had any idea what it actually does for other instances < 1260361957 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1260361965 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1260361974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, if you know the polynomial bound, you can just cut off once it is reached, say by adding a time counter to your machine < 1260361987 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1260361994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't get anything more general < 1260362001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iwc < 1260362007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: indeed < 1260362008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it hours ago < 1260362010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1260362017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, remind me? < 1260362020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it about again? ;D < 1260362024 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is calculating the time bound a computable function though? < 1260362025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1260362029 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean just out of interest < 1260362038 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't change the argument if it isn't < 1260362047 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1260362082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well in a sense no, it could involve a constant you don't know... < 1260362129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for proofs, you can just start with the assumption a polynomial bound exists < 1260362135 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, sure < 1260362174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you are doing something meta over many problem instances, i am sure this subtlety _can_ trip you up somehow then :D < 1260362221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nazis it was < 1260362240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ein little bischen romance < 1260362255 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klein is small < 1260362261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bisschen < 1260362273 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little was a bigger typo imo < 1260362275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i was not attempting perfect german here < 1260362282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does bisschen mean? < 1260362286 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little < 1260362293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't fit into the theme anyway :D < 1260362309 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ein bisschen" is like "a bit" < 1260362318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for proper german i would leave out the "little" < 1260362327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bisschen already implies it < 1260362372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually this should be sz but that is awkward on this keyboard) < 1260362373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err klein being small would be more "common knowledge" wouldn't it? < 1260362391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well to non-german speakers perhaps... < 1260362400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is what I meant yeah < 1260362401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1260362415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, after all everyone surely knows about Eine kleine Nachtmusik? < 1260362422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure about caps there) < 1260362545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're correct < 1260362551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1260362558 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nouns are caps < 1260362590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was more wondering about the "kleine", since it's a title < 1260362645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes the top google results are inconsistent, but wp doesn't use caps for it
< 1260362669 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just an english thing < 1260362683 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe american < 1260362684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my german is rusty < 1260362919 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1260362931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : are there any norwegians here? there are dubious reports of a giant UFO above the whole of norway < 1260362934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1260362946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot say i noticed while walking home today :D < 1260363009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err when was that? < 1260363015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be bad timing, they have put out a lot of anti-aircraft batteries for obama's visit tomorrow ;D < 1260363041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, put them out where? < 1260363044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:28:23 lof time < 1260363047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*log < 1260363048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lof? < 1260363053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is offset? < 1260363059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beijing time < 1260363071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changed the other day from something US < 1260363077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "huh" < 1260363088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+8 GMT < 1260363092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*UTC < 1260363128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, around oslo, in case of any terrorist airplane hijackings < 1260363178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well or airplanes anyway < 1260363249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm there is just one news story in those links mentioned there: dailymail < 1260363256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I remember that is untrustable < 1260363266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm no expert on UK news papers < 1260363269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh :D < 1260363309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the daily mail article looks like a joke < 1260363312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1260363314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "whole of norway" could very well be just one town before rumors spread < 1260363351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it said "northern norway" there < 1260363367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1260363370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Tromsø is mentioned. < 1260363422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trøndelag, which is here < 1260363458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1260363460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1260363468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION launches google earth
< 1260363545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which place with that name? < 1260363567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sør-Trondelag? Slightly south of Trondheim? < 1260363569 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1260363571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1260363575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, what? < 1260363584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sør-Trøndelag is the county containing Trondheim < 1260363600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: is your name oerjan? < 1260363603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yeah what? < 1260363624 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you comment about monkey "language" not being TC? < 1260363625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, no but I was confused by that it wasn't followed by anything else on the line? < 1260363629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to check norwegian newspaper
< 1260363632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1260363655 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is tht a statement or a question < 1260363655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: because Gregor made an Ook joke and i followed along < 1260363663 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok. < 1260363678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, either < 1260363711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you dont think that human language is TC < 1260363712 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1260363742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's the top story at vg.no < 1260363752 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vagino! < 1260363768 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :italian for "male vagina"! < 1260363776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's short for "verdens gang" (although no one uses the long form these days) < 1260363796 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verdens gang? < 1260363798 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word gang? < 1260363819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm gang is hard to translate idiomatically < 1260363830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verdens = of the world < 1260363837 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1260363838 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordly gang < 1260363843 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vagino < 1260363863 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantumEd: yes. < 1260363868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally it means walk, movement < 1260363884 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a large one a vaginissimo, and a small one is a vaginino! < 1260363889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just had a new idea for silly warranty/license combination
< 1260363933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside the shrink-wrapped package there is a paper with the text "warranty void if shrink wrapping is broken" < 1260364030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it seems to be genuine < 1260364050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, huh really? < 1260364095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as in people really have seen something < 1260364225 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you could write an interesting story around that < 1260364264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*seen and taken videos of something < 1260364296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our "experts" suspect a russian rocket < 1260364336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/missile < 1260364349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is happy irssi didn't know how to run that command
< 1260364403 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where like < 1260364430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what? < 1260364506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vg.no/nyheter/vaer/artikkel.php?artid=596439 includes video < 1260364549 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry brb < 1260364617 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is it? < 1260364636 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a rocket they don' whirl :/ < 1260364730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speculation is it could be a rocket spiraling out of control < 1260364756 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALIENS < 1260365463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what does "selv" mean? < 1260365689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that Google translate for Norwegian → Swedish is quite a lot better than usually, but still far from good
< 1260365716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self < 1260365735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what? < 1260365737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1260365739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"skyldes en russisk rakett, selv om det ennå ikke er offisielt bekreftet." < 1260365741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that < 1260365743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1260365745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1260365756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so one word means self and even? < 1260365757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1260365762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1260365774 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260365828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "kilder"? < 1260365844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and "Ifølge" < 1260365853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the context "Ifølge kilder i den russiske TV-kanalen Russia Today" < 1260365876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sources, according to < 1260365882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1260365904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "själv om" doesn't mean "even if" in swedish? < 1260365922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" benektet en talsmann for at de visste noe om en rakettoppskyting." < 1260365923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1260365927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google translate fails there < 1260365932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nekade en talesman att de inte visste något om en raket lansering. " < 1260365945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect < 1260365955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit too much negation? < 1260365963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, exactly < 1260365970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is it in the original too? < 1260365977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to tell < 1260365982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just "benektet" is negative < 1260366022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the benefit of English speaking users: "denied that they knew anything" turned into "denied that they didn't know anything" basically < 1260366023 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"co'o rodo" < 1260366029 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so the idea is like < 1260366055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in some future world companies will just do this shit with license-violated-if-plastic-is-broken < 1260366062 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but theyll take it to the extreme where the license is INSIDE the plastic < 1260366076 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in its OWN plastic so youd have to break the plastic to read the license < 1260366106 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then some smart guy down in econometrics realizes, well, who cares then if we just leave out the actual inner material for the license < 1260366114 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just let the license sheet be blank, but for the front page < 1260366119 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll save a boatload of money < 1260366159 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eventually theyre just selling software or whatever without licenses < 1260366176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but theyll take it to the extreme where the license is INSIDE the plastic <-- yes I said that far < 1260366178 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this leads to some humor and a doctorowesque tragedy-of-copyright-law thing < 1260366204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, nice < 1260366234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "hevder fenomenet kan komme fra en lyskaster"? < 1260366239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially that last word < 1260366384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wp crosslink gives me "stage lighting instrument" < 1260366436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm floodlight < 1260366449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(section on that crosslinked page) < 1260366474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, other theory: < 1260366489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm could be spotlight too < 1260366498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ufo, and government trying to hush it up and failing to coordinate the hushing up with Russia. < 1260366519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right < 1260366529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is there a video somewhat watchable? Like youtube or youtube? < 1260366548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was wrong with the video on that page? < 1260366559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no javascript, no flash < 1260366583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the article mentioned youtube so probably < 1260366693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I found was quite a fail < 1260366702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks nothing like those static pictures < 1260366764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not terribly interested
< 1260366794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, missile does sound plausible *shrug* < 1260366846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it is high enough up in the atmosphere it could easily be illuminated by the sun < 1260366849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might check out the thread on the reddit front page. if you can read _that_ < 1260366878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hasn't reached that yet though
< 1260366959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah... much of that region probably has no sunlight this time of year < 1260367132 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear god not over here as well < 1260367143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: what? < 1260367163 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lights in Norway < 1260367203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo! < 1260367247 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I don't mind really < 1260367657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : might check out the thread on the reddit front page. if you can read _that_ <-- which one on there < 1260367684 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-178-159.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260367752 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1260367753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/actjs/mystery_as_spiral_blue_light_display_hovers_above/ < 1260367763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the one i see on the front page < 1260367778 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260367784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait duh < 1260367797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/acp3d/strange_spiral_phenomenon_appearing_on_the_sky_in/ is much larger < 1260367803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs glasses
< 1260367845 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Definitely a rocket gone awry" < 1260367943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok when i suggested the reddit thread it was in case there were further video links there, maybe i should have mentioned that < 1260367969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual discussion can be ... variable ... < 1260367985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i still haven't looked at it myself, mind you < 1260368397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm 255 points, first I wondered why reddit was using unsigned char for the vote < 1260368405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I realized it probably wasn't max < 1260368406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1260368580 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260368767 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1260372710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1260372968 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1260376769 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes
< 1260376938 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1260377443 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1260378063 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is a semi-failed fireworks experiment. :) < 1260378238 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed?? peopel around the world saw it! < 1260378247 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a semi-win if nothing :P < 1260378714 0 :quantumEd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *" < 1260378736 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1260379946 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260380522 0 :Fuco!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1260380553 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@bas2-toronto47-1279283419.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1260382265 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1260383080 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1260383088 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260383214 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1260383222 0 :jpc!n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1260384273 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1260386410 0 :oklokok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1260386573 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260386573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260386573 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1260386625 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1260386639 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-178-159.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260386639 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1260386711 0 :OxE6!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-7.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1260386796 0 :augur!n=augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260387311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1260388156 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1260388227 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1260388228 0 :OxE6|!n=mu@wireless-lsusecure-7.net.lsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1260388236 0 :OxE6|!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :OxE6 < 1260388438 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1260388463 0 :augur!n=augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260390970 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1260392785 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1260393405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260393453 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1260393816 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1260394167 0 :OxE6!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1260395248 0 :Guest67800!n=mu@wsip-68-224-216-12.br.no.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1260395270 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1260395297 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys < 1260395461 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1260395498 0 :Guest67800!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1260397010 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1260398272 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1260401594 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello augur < 1260401611 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1260401875 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the following is legal C++0x: struct foo { long inline int explicit unsigned volatile virtual long const f(); }; fun < 1260401885 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1260401908 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace f with operator long const int volatile long unsigned < 1260401940 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, no it's not < 1260401942 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1260401954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what the longest chain of nonredundant keywords possible is
< 1260402894 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric